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Should Women Reject Feminism? | Honey Badger Brigade (FULL INTERVIEW) | Outtakes from "The Red Pill" — Transcript

by Cassie Jaye · 8,210 words · 1,152 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:05[Music]
0:15first off I'm gonna have you guys go
0:17through the row and tell me a little bit
0:19about yourself and why you're here well
0:25my name is Alison Tina I've been
0:28involved in sites for about 10-12 years
0:33just mostly online forums are you
0:37talking about
0:39my main focus was actually male victims
0:43of sexual abuse and and rape so I've
0:47been researching that as wrong and so
0:50participating in forums before that I
0:52actually read quite a bit of information
0:54on men's men's issues I read the entire
1:00one bookshelf in my university library
1:04cover to cover on men's issues that was
1:08probably I guess would be 14 years ago
1:12now so 14 16 something like that and
1:16actually the interesting thing was the
1:18person who got me into it was my mother
1:20when she gave me the princess at the
1:22window book on men's issues and I guess
1:28counter feminism and she gave it to me
1:31because I just come back from all-girls
1:34school and she felt that I was becoming
1:36too too radically feminists which is
1:40interesting now that and and I started
1:43to read and research the issues and
1:46started to understand you know the
1:50vulnerabilities that men face and issues
1:52that men face and the problems that they
1:54had and through doing that I lost a lot
1:57of my anger my initial anger that I was
2:00expressing which was what my mother was
2:02concerned about she actually organized
2:06the first take back the night March in
2:08our hometown
2:09she was originally an editor at a
2:11women's magazine or a feminist feminist
2:15paper but she got frozen out in part
2:19because she wanted to maintain a
2:20standard of grammar and proper English
2:23and they felt that that was patriarchal
2:25and and she at one of the marches and
2:30this is when she was starting to sour
2:32towards feminism my father actually
2:34volunteered to bartend and she he
2:37encountered lesbian separatists or
2:41radical separatists I'm not saying that
2:44lesbians are like you know this is
2:46business
2:47but there are some who are radical
2:49separatists who when he created drinks
2:52for them wouldn't touch them and the
2:55only other time I've ever encountered
2:56that kind of thing was in Saudi Arabia
2:58because I lived in Saudi Arabia for ten
2:59years sometimes if you would give
3:03shopkeepers mail shopkeepers money they
3:05wouldn't touch it and when they wouldn't
3:07want to touch you because you might be
3:09menstruating and they had really
3:10attached strong taboos against touching
3:12women when they're menstruating so it
3:13was interesting to think that that kind
3:15of attitude was here but with these
3:19these radical separatist feminists and
3:22they expressed it towards my father and
3:24that's sort of when my mother started to
3:25question why she's involved in the
3:28movement and which I guess eventually
3:30led her to some of the counter feminist
3:33writing you know like Christina Hoff
3:35Sommers and other I guess antithetical
3:42feminists who are who are they question
3:47aspects of the movement and then she
3:51eventually gave it to me when she felt
3:53that I was getting to be more wrath to
3:55Rattler polarized against men I guess
3:58would be and because it became like to
4:01be honest to became an easy way to just
4:03deflect my lack of like a care or
4:08self-esteem towards myself on to hating
4:11men and that's not a very that's not a
4:15very healthy thing right you don't it
4:18becomes a hate sink when we really
4:20should be addressing the fact that you
4:22don't love yourself and you have these
4:24really negative feelings towards
4:25yourself and also a lack of you know
4:28gratitude towards what you do have you
4:30know and so she was trying to steer me
4:33away from that and so that's sort of
4:36where I came from my name is Jessica I
4:45sometimes go by Jessica Jessica Kenny
4:49I've been addressing men's rights
4:53non-fundamental for a little over a year
4:56now I've never really thought of myself
5:01as a feminist I was very girl power for
5:04a while and girl I can do that and then
5:09I just felt like I mean it was probably
5:11a stereotype of feminism I thought oh
5:13you know they're just whining about when
5:15you pull one up they just fill out and
5:17do things and show that they're you know
5:18why you need you know on these
5:20complaints and protests and theories
5:22just go show that
5:24and I lose what what actually what
5:30pinpointed it but I know that there was
5:32a moment where I started kind of looking
5:34around online to try and kind of just
5:36figure out where my brain was at the
5:38time and like how I felt and I kind of
5:42started looking into some non feminist
5:44things and I'm fun some people on
5:46YouTube the first was a Christian misty
5:54and her videos led to girl rights what
5:59Karen strong and of course I was a
6:00working overnights at the time so much
6:02every single one of their videos and
6:05then just kind of started looking into
6:06talking to more some more people started
6:10networking and a lot of people on
6:12Facebook and just kind of started
6:17interacting and debating and they're
6:22just kind of discussing the issues and
6:24learning more just trying to bring
6:27balance to the discourse because
6:30everything always seemed to be so you
6:32know women face this and this happens to
6:34and listen to this and I'm thinking it
6:37just it's just not balanced you know and
6:39that's not all that's happening it's
6:42just
6:43right right I joined a couple Facebook
6:48pages friend of mine Denise started one
6:51as a counter to those VM I need feminism
6:54because project that went around and
6:57people hold it wait for it's their
6:58reason for needing feminine so she
7:00wanted to do an opposite to that so it
7:04started me I don't need this because
7:06I've had a bunch of people holding up
7:08science their reasons for being non
7:11feminist and that page is kind of wrong
7:14and that's been my main focus before I
7:17joined Melanie Badgers so doing that and
7:21that's and then joining up with the
7:29honey badgers and focusing issues that
7:31men are facing my my biggest catalyst
7:35though is my son I mean I always felt
7:38like there was like I said just not
7:40balance no I always heard about how
7:42women are facing this and women are
7:44facing that and I saw so many women that
7:46were treating them badly and I'm
7:48thinking why doesn't that get talked
7:50about why isn't that in the conversation
7:52and then little over two years ago I had
7:54a son and I started thinking about you
7:57know what kind of feature is out there
7:59for him what kind of
8:01opportunities does he have and what kind
8:04of risks are there for he that's that
8:06really kind of pushed him into don't a
8:08morning to not just not visible but also
8:10men's rights I'm Rachel Edwards blogger
8:20I got I get involved with men's rights
8:24it's kind of a involved process I I I
8:26often try and find a specific point but
8:28I really find that oftentimes all of it
8:31was just sort of moving towards the same
8:33direction and really what happened was I
8:36think a lot of it has to do with my
8:39history of depression and that I was
8:42very suicidal at fifteen and I had a I
8:46really bounce back from that and I
8:49started meeting guys online and talking
8:52to them and trying to you know say it's
8:55not that bad I mean you know it can get
8:57better
8:57you know it's really really hard now but
9:00there's always something just you know
9:02out of reach that you can't see and
9:05there's a future for yourself but they
9:07were often so inconsolable and I
9:10wondered what was really going on with
9:13them I really did feel this sense of
9:17empathy for their situation many many of
9:20them really had serious problems and
9:21nobody cared nobody at all they didn't
9:24have anybody they can really reach out
9:26to and I wondered you know I tried to be
9:28that person but I was only one person
9:31and it would really felt I guess
9:33isolating and what was even worse is
9:35that sometimes I felt that it conflicted
9:37with my beliefs at the time because I
9:41considered myself a feminist and they
9:43you know they said well you know women
9:45are the primary victims they they're the
9:48ones who who suffer the most but I knew
9:51even from going through through groups
9:53and therapy that that wasn't the case
9:55that men were
9:57sexual assaults and and things like that
9:59I didn't know to what extent though so I
10:01just over the years I started coming
10:04across things and I I guess I I started
10:08noticing that I really didn't have
10:10anything in common with modern-day
10:12feminism at all because they were
10:14completely different from what values
10:17that I had for myself which was being
10:20self-reliant
10:21and you know really trying to to to be
10:26equal and my idea of equality is you
10:28know not using a man for the things that
10:31he can give you you know engaging with
10:34him as a person as your as your equal
10:37and I and I wondered why nobody else was
10:41assigning it for these things know why
10:43no one else was getting on board and
10:45then I remember talking with these women
10:47and I and I said I suggested these
10:50things I said you know this isn't just a
10:53victim party for for women no men really
10:56do suffer to and nobody's really
10:58addressing that and I got such a
11:00backlash i Benchley found my way to
11:04videos of Karen strong and then I
11:07started watching more videos then I
11:09started watching Heath Ledger radio and
11:12eventually I signed Thailand which what
11:16I thought was just gonna be some stuff
11:17on the side and then I just got really
11:19involved and I think it really comes
11:22from a desire to help men and really to
11:26improve the way that we engage between
11:30the sexes the way we talk to each other
11:31the way
11:33you know relationships they're very
11:36important and I really feel that they're
11:37deteriorating and it should never
11:40happened in the first place but that's
11:43sort of a I guess a short summary
11:45crystal well I was a feminist for most
11:51of my life I created a page loving and
11:59celebrating men after just finally
12:01getting frustrated of seeing a lot of
12:03online attacks on men's bodies like
12:06making fun of their bodies you know and
12:08I just got really sick of it that's like
12:09you know I'm just gonna create a space
12:11where I can support men so I started to
12:13you know look up stuff about loving and
12:16celebrating men like just trying Google
12:18things online and nothing came up
12:19directly towards doing that for men
12:22every article was how men can do that
12:24for women and I was like oh this is
12:26interesting and through more research I
12:27actually I came across a BFM and I
12:31actually prior to that had met up with
12:33NCS and so I started to just read more
12:41and I also watch hair and strong and I
12:44started to listen honey badger radio and
12:46and I just really got I was like wow
12:49this is this is incredible and I was
12:52ready to step away from feminism I had
12:53actually thought about it in my 20s and
12:55I was like you know what I this is just
12:56so much man-hating here I just I can't
12:58do it anymore
12:59and another feminist was like no but
13:01we're not all like that
13:02and I was like okay so I kind of adopted
13:03that you know mantra but it it just was
13:08a cool thing anymore and I let go of
13:12feminism and I started to research the
13:17Human Rights Campaign but even there as
13:20far as domestic violence there was no
13:22section for men so it's like okay well
13:26that's that's not valid so I started to
13:31look into more than men right Smith how
13:33psycho this is this is right this is
13:35where you know men are gonna finally get
13:37the support they need
13:39and I also received a lot of backlash
13:41which I was really shocked knew these
13:43were some women that I've known for
13:45years who when I said I was like yeah
13:47you know I'm I'm a men soon rights
13:48activist now and they just lost it you
13:52know one of them was like well we're not
13:55equally represented in Congress no like
13:57well what do you mean cuz if you're
13:59talking about our bodies how do you know
14:02that men you know there's lots of men
14:03who are standing up for women's rights
14:05you're dismissing them by saying we're
14:07not equally represented in Congress
14:08because we don't have you know a certain
14:11amount of genitalia there that matches
14:13our that's not how you measure people
14:15and I like and how do you know the women
14:17that you're gonna just pull in just
14:19because they're women are gonna vote for
14:21stuff that supports you how do you know
14:22that because we both have the same you
14:25know it doesn't make sense and I'm like
14:27actually that's pretty sexist and she's
14:29like oh we were misogynist and that was
14:31my first time because the misogyny that
14:34make me a misogynist how did that happen
14:38but that was the first time I felt oh my
14:40god you know I thought my like my voice
14:42constrictor micro and I'm like God is
14:44this what guys feel like all the time
14:46when they're trying to say hey these are
14:48actually the facts so um yeah I just got
14:52really motivated and supporting men's
14:55human rights I mean it's to me it's just
14:57it's men are human I don't know how the
15:00conversation turned into pushing men out
15:03of the human rights conversation and
15:05there's a lot of misconceptions being
15:09spread about mention rights activists I
15:11mean yeah that's my exact respect we
15:13don't care about women's rights that's
15:15not the case at all
15:16no one's dismissing women as human
15:18beings we're also adding that men are
15:20also human beings you know so you know I
15:23have the loving and celebrating men pH
15:25and then I got to join the honey badgers
15:27and that's been really awesome and I
15:28also created the pH to return a
15:30femininity because I do believe that in
15:33order to that we can create a healthy
15:37type of sisterhood with women as well
15:38that we can all feel safe with each
15:41other and feel good together because
15:42feminism doesn't promote that at all I
15:44don't see how it supports women when it
15:46as you need to live in fear you need to
15:48do what feminism says otherwise you're
15:51not a proper woman and you're you know
15:54so it goes it's it's a full circle it's
15:56on every human you know
15:58and as for egalitarianism and we're
16:01supposed to be moving towards that then
16:03we have to actually listen to the voice
16:04of Matt to the suffering of men because
16:06to look throughout history and say that
16:08only women have suffered it makes no
16:10sense it's not true son reality we all
16:12suffer as humans and actually when I
16:15watched a warrant Farrell's interview he
16:18says he points out how we lived in
16:21survival systems you know we all lived
16:23in survival systems that were horrible
16:25for everybody
16:26you know and how can we move forward
16:27from them together and that's the point
16:30you know so uh yeah it's it's really
16:34it's it's heartbreaking to see when men
16:37step up and say this is what we need for
16:40them to be met with we don't care shut
16:44up you know and that's it's it's not
16:46right and you just don't treat people
16:48that way so I'm you know I'm happy to be
16:52here it's exciting to see the conference
16:55begin this conference will get but this
16:59conversation
17:01I wouldn't say something I'm sorry for I
17:04think part of the problem with feminism
17:06is that if you do not acknowledge the
17:08dark feminine
17:09you really can't create a healthy
17:11sisterhood right now because you just
17:14perpetuate the same behaviors over and
17:17over again you have to be able to
17:18sunshine light on it you know and
17:21sterilize that the kind of things that
17:24women do to each other yeah the kind of
17:26backstabbing the kind of subterfuge and
17:29they don't acknowledge it you know just
17:33how cutting and hateful they can be yeah
17:36to each other just I mean just to each
17:39other not even just two men we're to
17:41each other and they don't ever really
17:43acknowledge that happens even even among
17:45I guess you I guess people will be close
17:50and a feminist group yeah and they just
17:58you know speak up for men and boys have
18:01their own little collection of
18:05misogynist Stockholm Syndrome like we
18:19get money and well I guess oh in our you
18:22are getting something here are totally
18:23charity I've been told I'm doing this to
18:34get male attention and I know I mean a
18:40militant boyfriend I mean most of us are
18:45actually in a relationship you know
18:47committed relationship we're not really
18:49in this to get like a harem of men or
18:51for money we don't get me we don't
18:54really get paid to do what it it's not
18:55it's not bad to get paid to do advocacy
18:58for men and boys because ultimately it's
19:00not gonna go anywhere until people are
19:02paid for it right
19:03they can't go up against the kind of
19:05structures that feminists have put in
19:08place if they don't have the resources
19:10and if they you know they don't get paid
19:13and then
19:13the resources but so it's not that's not
19:16the problem but it's like the the
19:18reality is that if you this is not
19:22flattering to men to talk about men's
19:24vulnerabilities now to talk about the
19:26ways that they are not strong and then
19:29they they are well weak and to be honest
19:34about it's not flattering
19:35and there's it it doesn't really you
19:38know it's browsing these ideas doesn't
19:41really create male attention I mean
19:44they're they're guys in the men's rights
19:45movement you say yeah you're right
19:46you're right but but it's not flattering
19:51it's not flattering live and I know it
19:53seems like there's a lot of guys who
19:54really like the flattering lie of
19:56feminism it's a very flattering your
20:00Nipissing because you're a man you have
20:02nothing to worry about you're incredibly
20:05strong you're so powerful and connected
20:08I mean every single bit of that is is is
20:11flattering and it's empty and it's
20:14hiding the truth and the honest truth is
20:18that men do have a lot of
20:19vulnerabilities that need to be trust by
20:21society and so we're not flattering you
20:28know so it I actually think that
20:31probably we get more male attention by
20:33being feminists and saying this and
20:36promoting this this this sort of male
20:39power fantasy of patriarchy theory and
20:44you know it's I mean look at Anita
20:47sarkeesian she's got tons and tons of
20:49attention and money all of the feminists
20:52really get tons and tons of attention
20:54ammonia and it's because they're playing
20:55to the existing traditional narrative of
20:57a damsel in distress who needs to be
20:59saved by the white knight charging in
21:01you know and the white knight charging
21:03in is all of the feminist men to get to
21:06think of themselves as being these
21:07powerful warriors for truth and justice
21:09saving the delicate fragile glass if you
21:15drop or she'll shatter into a million
21:17pieces little damsel you know and that's
21:19really whole feminist mythology right in
21:22a nutshell
21:24and I know that a lot of feminists will
21:26come back and say no no that's not what
21:27we're saying
21:28that's not what we're saying but then I
21:30challenge them I don't wait for this but
21:37what I was what was I saying I saying
21:38I'm challenging that I find it amazing
21:41how feminist
21:44oh I mean their prime thing is opposing
21:47misogyny and I mean that's a completely
21:50valid thing to do but I've found so much
21:54misogyny in feminism I mean like that
21:57bad idea right there where you know they
21:59start off saying you know women are
22:00powerful and they're strong they can do
22:02this they can do anything that a man can
22:04do great and yet there's doing so much
22:07to protect women like therapies like you
22:09were saying delicate little flower is
22:11that you know they go into the workplace
22:13and God forbid somebody says the wrong
22:14word and oh you know their whole day is
22:16just shut well you know and you know
22:19they've fallen into a deep depression
22:20and you know I think that's not an
22:24empowering image of women at all it's
22:26completely contradictory no well I
22:29remember reading from the good men
22:31project which is essentially a feminist
22:33publication the the writer cannot for
22:38the life of me remember his name I
22:40apologize but he wrote he was the one
22:42who wrote about teaching boys that
22:44they're rapists or not to rapist
22:46feminists no were they've been all boys
22:50are rape or not know that they needed to
22:52be taught not to rate that she needed to
22:54teach boys not to rape and she was
22:57saying like is there is there a word for
22:59for saying don't rape anyone
23:02he's talking about talking like his his
23:04boy is his son and and of course he just
23:09said well we can't say that so we just
23:10say soften boys but then he goes into
23:12the spiel or he says well no matter how
23:15strong a woman you make your daughter's
23:18she's still a fragile vessel who could
23:21shatter into a million ear ear unfixable
23:28pieces at the brutish actions of any man
23:34ah it's ridiculous yeah my father would
23:37never taught me that strap it back on
23:40it's okay keep going you know it's it's
23:44like and I can't imagine how that is
23:46empowering to think that they think that
23:49things can shatter you because it really
23:51strength is about dealing with life as
23:53it is not expecting other people to pad
23:55the world for you
23:57and it's even it even feels
24:00uncomfortable when guys do that when
24:03they pad the world for you and it's like
24:07and it almost creates a cage of that
24:10padding you know you can't exit it
24:13because you're so sensitive now that the
24:14moment you exit it you're in trouble
24:16you're unable to cope so now you're
24:19stuck in these little harems
24:22yeah you really are stuck you're trapped
24:25in this because you know they say that
24:30they really are trying to empower women
24:32but they're not they're making it worse
24:33it is like she said they are they are
24:36padding everything they are making it
24:38you're making women feel more
24:40comfortable being easily offended being
24:43you know just shattered by the littlest
24:45thing yeah being afraid yes very
24:50they're afraid everywhere they go that
24:53someone out there is just waiting in the
24:55bushes to rape them or something and
24:58it's just not true the statistics don't
25:00back that it's too many people making
25:06these broad statements of all women all
25:08women are afraid all women fear this all
25:10you know women are afraid of walking
25:12down the street and I'm reading this
25:13going last I checked I'm a woman and I'm
25:16not afraid so I mean for one you don't
25:19get to speak for me but you know how is
25:21that empowering how is it empowering to
25:23instill the sense of fear and everyone
25:26especially when that's not indicative
25:29oh it's not apparent it's not a power in
25:32the least and when you brought up the
25:34the dark side of the female kind of like
25:36the female shadow when that's not
25:37addressed again also like the female
25:41criminals which are hidden in our
25:43society or not really addresses contra
25:45or given a lower you know sentence and
25:48things like that when we don't discuss
25:50that you know people have this ability
25:53to go to the dark side
25:55when we don't address that and we just
25:57say oh it's just men I mean when they
25:59say things like that they say like that
26:03you see the quotes often all too many
26:06men are rapists stuff like that too many
26:09men are like that what they're saying is
26:11where that basis is coming from is their
26:14view that men are criminal innately
26:16they're criminal
26:17so that's misandry but somehow they
26:20twist that into misogyny i I don't know
26:24how it is but yeah but they go into uh
26:26you know too many men are like that
26:28because misogyny no you have that view
26:32because misandry
26:34like what are you talking about right
26:36now you know so it's yeah it's it's
26:38incredible and and telling women that
26:40they you know that not to acknowledge
26:45your shadow not to be conscious of wait
26:47I might be overstepping this man's
26:49boundaries wait I might be hurting this
26:51man well it excuses them and lets them
26:54just continue on and that's actually a
26:56really dangerous slippery slide and can
26:58you know support them in being abusive
27:00towards men instead the conversation
27:03should be here that here's the reality
27:06you know how do you treat the person
27:09before you how do you treat yourself
27:11because it does come back to how do you
27:13treat yourself if women are told to live
27:15in fear that's what they're gonna
27:16project is more fear they're gonna feel
27:18too afraid and therefore they're not
27:20going to feel safe within their own
27:21boundaries they're not going to feel
27:22safe to say these are my boundaries this
27:24is where I feel safe within myself so
27:27they're going to project that into men
27:28and saying because what's happening is
27:30they're afraid they don't feel safe
27:31within themselves they don't feel safe
27:33within their boundaries so all of a
27:34sudden the world is scary men are the
27:37ones who are doing it to them
27:39that's that's where that comes from
27:41instead of saying holy crap you know
27:43what no I'm the powerful human being I'm
27:45capable of creating my own boundaries
27:47and capable of having healthy discourse
27:50with men having healthy relationships
27:52with men coexisting healthily together
27:54supporting one another you know but when
27:57we continue to dismiss the female shadow
28:00we're not supporting women we're not
28:02helping women be stronger we're we're
28:05supporting women staying in fear in
28:07terror and that's that's not healthy
28:09that's not healthy for any part of
28:10humanity and until that ship is
28:13supported then we're not how we gonna
28:15move forward we're just not when women
28:22expect men to maintain their boundaries
28:25they are always going to live in fear
28:28because they don't realize that they're
28:30your abdicating your control right your
28:33and you're saying that you can do
28:35whatever it's your choice
28:37but I'm somehow I'm gonna manifest
28:40vulnerability and you're gonna not do it
28:42or something you know and it's like no
28:44you establish your boundaries and you do
28:48what you need to be done to have them
28:51respected and you know have a sense of
28:54humor about it too maybe
28:56I think they often say that what we do
29:00is is hatred against women I don't think
29:03that's the case at all I think I think
29:06what we stand for is that women are
29:08strong enough to handle whatever is
29:10thrown at them and they are capable of
29:13handling it like adults they're capable
29:15of getting better I mean you can be you
29:18know you can be raped you could you know
29:20be suicidal you can have you could be
29:22abused your entire life but you it's up
29:25to you to decide what happens next you
29:27can live your life in fear you can
29:29internalize this you can be a victim all
29:32of your life or you can learn from what
29:36happened and get better and just learn
29:38to not hold that against every other
29:41person in your life do not blame every
29:44man or every person who wronged you
29:48right and it's it's a great quick the
29:51men's rights movement because for having
29:52discussion of hey this is happening to
29:55men as well this isn't something that's
29:57just happening to women so can help you
29:59know create that reality that wow we are
30:03all people you know it's not just
30:05happening to women this is happening to
30:07men too and we need to fix that together
30:09but you know the feminism doesn't do
30:11that it continues to divide men it
30:15doesn't you know it says you should be
30:16afraid of this person and you should you
30:18know you're the criminal menaker policy
30:20and women should be afraid not that's
30:23not them that's not a healthy human
30:25community reality in any sense our
30:28interactions with other people things
30:30that that we can do as women if we live
30:33in fear if we have this irrational fear
30:35of men of violence that could that will
30:39be perpetuated against us if we walk
30:41outside of our doors that's probably
30:44more damaging than anything that the
30:47feminists are saying is happening in the
30:48workplace I mean if you if you look if
30:51you walk outside every single day just
30:54afraid to live that is worse than
30:57anything that someone might say to you
31:00or do yeah ruins every day of your life
31:03you times you know and it's a well I
31:06mean I use I use an example let's say
31:11you had an old aunt
31:13you know she's living by herself and in
31:15a house and and she keeps getting
31:17harassed by a shady home alarm salesman
31:21who is constantly telling her all of
31:24these scary stories about statistics
31:26about crime in her area that are
31:28inflated or even outright lies now in
31:31that scenario you see the abuse
31:32immediately well why don't we see abuse
31:35when it's feminists and government doing
31:37it to women you know it's it's abusive
31:41to women yeah
31:42to inflate these statistics I remember
31:46actually a to to deny the both sides of
31:49the reality I remember the day it
31:51clicked in my mind and I realized that I
31:55studied the statistics on male sexual
31:58abuse for so long
32:01so I knew pretty much the
32:03state-of-the-art in the in the field and
32:06I also knew that the majority of male
32:10rapist had themselves been abused
32:13usually by adult females mostly in their
32:18teens or even younger and I have been
32:22before then I hadn't even noticed that I
32:25had been carrying this burden of fear
32:27but then one day it just sort of clicked
32:29in my mind it's like that piece of I
32:31guess it would have been agitating in my
32:33mind and then finally that it just
32:35shifted it and clicked in place I
32:37realized that we were all in it together
32:40and that that huge weight of fear of men
32:44just lifted on because they weren't this
32:47this um this other this dangerous other
32:51they were actually victims with me or
32:54potential victims with me so we were all
32:57knitting in it together against Noddy I
32:59wouldn't even say the people who rape
33:01but whatever's in those people that's
33:03making them engage in these he's acting
33:06out in these aggressive sexual ways you
33:08know and it's like it was like a moment
33:10in that I remember distinctly it's just
33:12like this weight lifted off me and it
33:14was it was actually pretty transcendent
33:16was like wow I felt like I could breathe
33:19and men were no longer my enemy and it
33:23was it was because I had followed these
33:25men's issues down the rabbit hole and I
33:27had looked at the statistics and now the
33:29statistics are coming out more and more
33:31that the rape of men is much far more
33:35prevalent than we ever could have
33:37imagined before I mean just in 2012 they
33:41did a survey and this is the National
33:43Crime Victimization survey so it
33:45requires a male victim to identify what
33:47happened to him as a rape which is
33:49difficult for male victims to do because
33:51we live in a society that says men can't
33:52be raped and 38 percent of the victims
33:56of rape were found to be men in on a
34:00National Crime Victimization survey
34:01which required them to say yeah I was a
34:04victim of rape
34:06and and and if you look at other
34:08statistics I mean they're coming out now
34:10in like almost like an avalanche that
34:12this is a big problem that men face too
34:15it's not sexual violence is not gendered
34:18at all it's not men doing it to women
34:20it's it's abusive people doing it to
34:24their victims yeah you know and and the
34:28other thing is that when you when you
34:30digest all this you realize that the
34:34sexual violence itself is is is almost
34:38like like what I said is that it's not
34:41necessarily us against against people
34:44engaging it whatever is in them that
34:45makes them engage in it whatever this
34:47toxic dynamic that they're perpetuating
34:50so it was interesting it was like weight
34:54lifted off me and I could die I could
34:58get let go of that kind of I think it
34:59was a toxic victimhood yeah that I was
35:01carrying around and and that that's one
35:05one of the good things that the men's
35:06rights movement has done for me
35:08definitely I I remember that feeling too
35:11when I was called the misogynist I was
35:13like oh my god I get it now all the
35:16misogynist I was told in the world
35:17they're not that many misogynist as
35:19funny as I thought there were you know
35:21I'm like I started to understand that
35:23those who said oh well we disagree here
35:26are some facts on why we disagree those
35:28were automatically called misogynists so
35:30I started to understand that the world
35:31was a lot safer than I thought it was
35:33uh-huh no there weren't people waiting
35:35in the bushes to rape me you know and I
35:38didn't realize cuz I thought you know I
35:40was still in the mindset that I was like
35:41oh I I'm standing for equality and I
35:43didn't realize how much crap I was still
35:46holding on to that was completely total
35:51lies
35:54it's a slow progression shedding layers
35:57of layers I'm Olivia I really feel this
36:00hurts women just even even the very act
36:03of saying that rape is something men do
36:05to women because you completely erase Oh
36:09female on female sexual violence and
36:11those people who were victimized they
36:15have no one to talk to especially in the
36:17feminist community because they won't
36:19acknowledge it they won't acknowledge
36:20that this is something that is also
36:23happening it's a mess or they won't
36:27they'll acknowledge it but they'll say
36:28it's different yeah but it's somehow
36:31lesser or doesn't it some power comes
36:34into it patriarchy penis privilege when
36:37it's somehow it's just a lesser crime
36:40when those people are still you know in
36:42pain they are there in just as much
36:45agony as everyone else who's been
36:47victimized like that and you completely
36:49erase them completely when I've been
36:56talking to people about making it
36:57documentary about the men's rights
36:58movement a lot of people say what is
37:00that
37:00and basically laugh or dismiss it and
37:03you don't know anything about it so if
37:05you can and it concise kind of elevator
37:08pitch just start listening on Simonet
37:11issues because I know there there's a
37:13laundry list oh gosh you know what
37:17issues I mean from you and we were
37:20having the conversation the other day
37:22was I I feel like an all-encompassing
37:24thing really could be boiled down to
37:26just male disposability in just so many
37:29different aspects you know men's issues
37:31and men suffering in whatever regard
37:34that it is is just swept under the rug
37:36and men just keep being used as say
37:42I feel like you guys are all looking at
37:50me there is an empathy gap I think
37:53because we feel more often that women
37:57are always the major victims of in any
38:00situation we we have a tendency to just
38:04minimize what happens to two men in boys
38:08and there are a lot of problems involved
38:10with this like when they're abused in
38:12relationships by their partner who is
38:14female you know and they're when they're
38:17sent off to war people have no problem
38:20just sending waves of men to just go off
38:23to die
38:24you know right this there's no domestic
38:27violence shelters for men to leave with
38:30their children so often men have to feel
38:32they need to stay in an abusive marriage
38:34to see you know because they know how
38:37the court systems are set up that
38:39anything you know if there was an
38:41abusive person then that person can lie
38:43and twist it and say well such and such
38:47they will no longer see their children
38:48and they have no escape they have no
38:51support a lot of those men end up
38:53committing suicide or staying in the
38:55abusive relationship until things cool
38:57just some of them just stay there they
39:00have no way to get out women have places
39:02they can go they can leave with their
39:04children they can say this person is
39:06abusive and we need to get out men don't
39:09have that option they don't have that
39:11safety time they really don't and also
39:13yes the disposability of men as well as
39:15the safety of men you know which is I
39:17guess mental mental health issues I mean
39:21a lot of the system is geared towards
39:24the assumption that men are somehow more
39:27inherently violent when they are
39:28mentally ill and I've seen I've seen
39:33women and this is just because I have
39:36been hospitalized
39:37you know just in an all-out fight where
39:40they have to have five people come in to
39:42hold her down and restrain her while
39:44she's she's cussing and speeding at
39:47people in the face and then they have to
39:48go and give her an injection so and
39:51there will be a tendency to be for
39:54people to be less likely to take Tina
39:56boys into their house and the foster
39:57care system because they believe that
39:59you know there's somehow more violent or
40:02more prone to violence or more prone to
40:04being in trouble
40:05you mentioned the empathy thing which is
40:08a big deal to because yes we have the
40:10domestic violence shelters that men do
40:11not have we also have the fact that baby
40:15boys are being circumcised droll genital
40:17mutilation to a boy is completely
40:19dismissed and people you know I've been
40:22having these discussions and they'll go
40:23as far as to say well oh it's it's not a
40:27big deal
40:27that's you don't take away someone's
40:30human rights and say it's not a big deal
40:32you don't get to cut someone and say
40:34that's okay it's and when it's done to
40:36boys it's treated as if it's casual no I
40:38need my baby my choice right and some
40:40people go one thing about that drives me
40:43insane
40:44they whenever they do surgery on bulls
40:47are bull calves to turn them into steers
40:51they actually recommend it anesthesia
40:53and then you're like like how many
40:56circumcisions of baby boys are done
40:58completely without anesthesia yeah I
41:00mean well well an athlete well aunt will
41:02give calves proper pain relief but not
41:06kids yeah and then that doesn't make us
41:09pause but go ahead some people came
41:12forward saying oh well then that means
41:14you're gifts the Jewish culture which is
41:15completely untrue because there's the
41:18group they're called choosing energies
41:20against circumcision and so it's
41:22becoming bigger in the Jewish community
41:24to that they're saying this is a human
41:25rights issue you don't intercog this
41:27baby just because tradition or religion
41:30so that's another big issue
41:36you think and when you were mentioning
41:37you know male and female criminals and
41:41I've seen so many different things where
41:44when a woman commits a crime they
41:47immediately look at why you know what
41:49caused her to do this what can we do to
41:50help her what can we do to help her
41:52mental state all these things about
41:54different alternatives to you know what
42:02other alternatives can we do they're
42:03gonna be more healthy more helpful for
42:05them and whenever amendment crimes well
42:08he's obviously their mental health gets
42:12swept under the rug and it's just not an
42:15issue great it's not something that's
42:17addressed my name is speak
42:18women are violence they think well
42:21somebody must have you know wronged them
42:24somehow a man must have somehow been
42:26responsible even when they equally go
42:29into when there's a man and a woman and
42:31they're a couple and they go and they
42:33commit a crime together maybe she was
42:35more involved they still you know
42:37they'll say well you know she must have
42:40had a reason she must have had you know
42:42a moment of weakness or something like
42:45that but they never give that to men
42:46yeah he coerced her he was responsible
42:49he was the mastermind was really good
42:54meeting the lady breathes in abilities
43:02of seeing women as being famous or just
43:06as just as terrible or and as men when
43:09they commit these crimes when they when
43:12they wronged other people it's I've gone
43:14so far well I've seen people go so far
43:16as to just completely minimize the act
43:19of a woman sexually abusing a boy and to
43:24to say well he must have wanted it
43:26somehow he must have
43:29yeah he must have coerced her into it
43:32or something I'm like are you kidding me
43:34an eight-year-old boy an eight-year-old
43:36boy Kankan course an older woman a
43:38thirty year old woman into having sex he
43:42wanted it
43:43are you serious you're actually saying
43:44that he was asking for it and it's it
43:48comes full circle right and you see that
43:50that goes into fairness and the court
43:53systems for men and boys there are boys
43:55who are being you know they're raped by
43:57these female pedophiles and then there
43:59was a 15 year old boy
44:00there's a 35 year old woman and then
44:02later on she came out of jail and she
44:04was able to collect child support from
44:07this boy that she raped yeah after
44:11getting out of jail so there's there's
44:13lack of fairness for men in the court
44:15systems in you know law in a big way
44:17regarding again when you know when it's
44:21starting to change a little bit but it
44:23still has a way to go when police
44:24officers were show up to domestic
44:26violence case it was often men were just
44:28taken away without asking what even
44:30happened
44:31it's just presumed that men are the
44:33criminals just right off the bat right
44:37and then also the chop you know when it
44:42comes to down to children and custody
44:44battles men usually are the ones that
44:46have to pay all the bills out of pocket
44:48on top of pay for the mother taking care
44:50of her child and as you know the lawyers
44:57have turned into dragging out before
44:59courts that you know the whole system he
45:01can lose a lot of money if not his job
45:03he has no support on top of that he's
45:06being shamed every which way and and I
45:09of course I know this isn't every but
45:11this is a big this is a big problem not
45:12saying of course every single case but
45:14this is many cases and you know yeah and
45:18so it's you know these men are
45:21these women who are trying to just
45:24they're abusing the system and then on
45:26top you know the court systems because
45:28they know the lawyers are saying you can
45:30get more you can get more and on top of
45:31that they're being abusive to the
45:33children by telling them that their
45:35father's crap or other stuff some of
45:37them even kids on the father so with a
45:40man going through this financially going
45:42through this emotionally and his
45:43children on top of that there are many
45:45men returning suicide you know the male
45:47suicide rate is four times that of women
45:49that's a problem that's a problem that
45:52you know men just are just giving up
45:54they're not getting the support they
45:56need you know so if I were to boil it
46:00all down to a solution for both genders
46:06is that we need to be able to recognize
46:09how men are vulnerable and we need to be
46:12able to recognize how women are actors
46:14because we have a huge blind spot
46:18especially when women do bad things that
46:21that they have made that choice because
46:23if you don't recognize that when women
46:25do bad things that they have made the
46:27choice to do that you also don't
46:30recognize that women do when women do
46:32good things they have made that choice
46:34if you essentially take away all the
46:36good that women do by not acknowledging
46:38the bad as it becomes it's not no longer
46:41personal choice
46:42somehow her vagina took over her brain
46:45to do the good and the penis took over
46:48her frame to do the bad whereas it was a
46:51person choosing either to do good or bad
46:53not not genitals had nothing to do with
46:56it and so that's what I would I would
46:58say it would be a final way to approach
47:02this problem it's just see that women
47:07are moral actors and then see that men
47:09can be acted upon that could be patients
47:13and I think that would actually improve
47:15the situation for both men and women
47:17because you would challenge that kind of
47:20toxic victimhood that is being foisted
47:23on women and you can't simultaneously
47:25try to try to make women the victim of
47:29society and see them
47:31as the people who can change society for
47:34the better it's impossible and it's not
47:40fair to put all that pressure on men so
47:42we need to challenge these mythologies
47:43of male power you know myth of male
47:46power or Warren Farrell we need to
47:48challenge them and see them for what
47:50they are and the mythologies themselves
47:53stripped man of compassion when you
47:55force men into leadership possession we
47:57need to be recognized and we've horse
47:59men into the leadership position we are
48:01asking them to abdicate compassion
48:03towards them and so all of these
48:05mythologies of male power let's really
48:07critically look at them and see if they
48:09are true and if they're fair if men
48:12really have that ability that we're
48:15ascribing to them or we're just using
48:17that as a convenient way of excusing
48:19feeling compassion for them by making
48:21them to blame for everything or making
48:24them responsible for everything I think
48:27we just need some honesty across the
48:29word and when we are honest you know
48:34really everybody in the men's movement a
48:37lot of times what happens way too often
48:40is that people are saying that this is
48:42just a group of whiny men complaining
48:46and they are inherently privileged and
48:50that all these things are just little
48:53firstworldproblems that they're bitching
48:56about and really it isn't these are
48:59really big problems that you can't just
49:02sweep under the rug that you can't
49:04ignore men are people they're human
49:07beings they are our fellow human beings
49:09and we need to treat them with respect
49:26yeah I do agree that we do need to move
49:30forward together and sewing women out of
49:32this fear bubble and also you know
49:35reminding them that they do have that
49:37self power that they can actually move
49:41not from not just living fear but moving
49:44to celebration and also smen neva
49:47support like the way the way I see it is
49:49men need support you know they need
49:51their needs not I mean and to be
49:56received with love you know and to be
49:58celebrated and women to be supported to
50:01move into their lives that they can
50:03celebrate and not live in fear and then
50:06we can focus together you know because
50:09everybody has what they can bring to the
50:10table
50:11focus together how we can move forward
50:13into healthy human community because
50:15that's the goal is having unity so I
50:22guess I was gonna say you know like it
50:24was said before it was just you know we
50:25really are all in this together it's not
50:27you know one group of people has it
50:29worse you know I hear the conversation
50:31all the time
50:32well sure this but this it's like that
50:35that doesn't help anyone you know we
50:36really are all in it together and I mean
50:39it we really can't address it that way
50:46it says a lot that it takes women
50:49speaking out about these issues for
50:52people to take notice of all
51:01[Music]
51:07[Music]

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