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Sherri Papini Full Unedited Police Interview — Transcript

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0:00incredibly long road. Yeah. Um but some
0:03stuff's come up. So
0:05over we've always had the the DNA out
0:08there in the world. Um sorry, before we
0:10get too far, obviously just like always,
0:13thank you for coming. We appreciate you
0:15taking the time to come talk to us. As
0:17always, your presence here is voluntary.
0:20Yeah. Um you can go at any time and uh
0:24all we want is truthful statements
0:25because it's a crime to lie to federal
0:28officers. Oh, yeah. Nice.
0:31Yeah. Sorry, forget about that part. So,
0:34um, so there's always been DNA out
0:36there. Um, and we we've done testing
0:39after testing. We've gone out to like
0:42the Parabon, which is a private company
0:44who does all like the the genetics, and
0:47we've just hit wall after wall after
0:49wall. But recently, we found some a
0:52familiar DNA hit. So what that does, it
0:55it just tells us it came from a certain
0:58person. So like the mother or the father
1:01or a son or an uncle or however that is,
1:03it just hits that like somewhere in this
1:05family tree. Um is where the DNA comes
1:08from. Okay. So with that, we open up the
1:11investigation. We go into who could it
1:13be
1:15um within the family. Um so once we
1:19started opening up those doors and
1:20looking through those the family members
1:22and just trying to see Facebook stalking
1:25them um criminal histories um just that
1:29normal investigation that we do once we
1:31start looking into things we started
1:33finding some interesting things. Okay.
1:35Um so one of the things that came out to
1:38us if you is there anything in there
1:40that looks
1:42of interest or notable interest or
1:47I mean, that's an awkward photo.
1:51No.
1:57So, the table, the picture's a little
1:59grained out. So, there I mean to me, I
2:03see
2:04a table there that somewhat looks like
2:06something you described to me in the
2:08past. And then I see wood paneling.
2:11Talking about the room. Yeah, we noted
2:13both of those things back in August 2017
2:17when we spoke with you about and you
2:19showed us this picture of a table. Do
2:21you remember that, Sherry? Yes, I do.
2:24And so when we were trolling through
2:26this, you know, Facebook page, we saw
2:28just the edge of that table. Yeah.
2:30Denise got it. In fact, he said, "Hey,
2:33Peter, look at this. Look at this
2:35table." And I was like, "Oh, wait.
2:36You're right." Yeah. And it has the wood
2:38paneling. Mhm. So, we're like, "Well,
2:40where was that photo taken?" Right. And
2:42so we're trying to figure that out. So,
2:44oh, okay.
2:46So, that's led us obviously now down to
2:49the obviously this Facebook page has a
2:52person. It's got like people tagged into
2:54it. So, it
2:55has the leader has a But that's still
2:58like that's still a valid memory, right?
3:00Is that this was the table? Yeah. A
3:03table like this was the table you were
3:04on when you were branded. And we've been
3:06talking about that a lot because so many
3:08memories are so faded now. It's been a
3:11long time. It's been a really long time.
3:13So, like details and things like that,
3:16we did the best that we could to take
3:18notes on it and all of that, but a lot
3:21of it's really hard. It's hard to think
3:24about.
3:27So, yeah. No, I see both those from what
3:30she told me. So, okay, that was of
3:33interest. With that, we started looking
3:35at different people and who might be
3:37involved and just trying to figure it
3:38out. And I wanted to show you this
3:42picture. And obviously
3:46um people can change their weight,
3:48people can change the color of their
3:50hair. Don't
3:52um just because the photo might be a
3:55little bit different. As you know, women
3:56like to change their hair
3:58and their makeup, their their weight can
4:01change. So that that might be a little
4:03bit different. But we wanted to take a
4:04look at this uh six-pack and see if you
4:05recognize anybody these six photos. Um,
4:09you don't feel like you have to provide
4:10an answer. There's no right or wrong
4:12answer. Just let us know if you see
4:13anybody in this photo that you do
4:15recognize. And if you do, we'll talk
4:16about how.
4:27Okay, Keith, if you could wait not to
4:29say anything that way, we don't
4:31influence
4:41I don't think so.
4:46So, nobody jumps out.
4:50I mean, this one a little bit, but
4:54you say this one a little bit. Which
4:55number is it? Number
5:00three. And when you're ready, I'll show
5:02you. Nothing's really like
5:05there's nothing in there that says, "Oh,
5:07yeah, that's her." No. Okay.
5:12Like kind of picture with different
5:21hair. That's a pleasant group of
5:26people. Keith just
5:46Do you have a
5:55tissue? It's hard because the other
5:58photos are distracting me. Can you give
5:59me another piece of paper if you don't
6:01mind? Another piece. Yeah. I want to
6:03cover upside down.
6:05Yes. I want to look at them one by one.
6:08Sure. Easier.
6:10[Applause]
6:13It's a little distracting. Here we go.
6:17Thank you.
6:38She's got that that puffy under those
6:40eyes. But I don't
6:45know. This is really hard.
6:49Take your time.
6:56I mean for her like I said if it's even
6:58close it's worth telling you guys
6:59obviously to look at it right or well no
7:01it's just that need obviously we know
7:03they're masked we know there's already
7:05hurdles to come about um just another
7:08tool another way to just another and
7:11obviously because you don't know the
7:13people if you knew the people then we'd
7:14show pictures but
7:18let me try not trickle this one that's a
7:20little easier
7:22Yeah, it's I don't know. For some
7:24reason, it makes it harder when you're
7:26looking at like a crowd
7:33of like Peter said, different color hair
7:37and dyes and all that kind of stuff. I
7:39know.
7:42Just like I'm trying not to get my hopes
7:44up.
7:52I
7:53know. I would say right right here is
7:56what's drawing me to this photo. So on
7:59photo number five, one of these is the
8:02this is the first one we showed you. The
8:04second one we showed you. So on six
8:08number two,
8:10but like you were saying, if someone
8:11were to lose weight, that would change.
8:13You're drawn to photo number five. Yes.
8:16Features of photo number five. Correct.
8:18And again, just for for the record and
8:20for when you go back like number number
8:23one is when you say three similar, she's
8:25similar to the younger female that we've
8:28always described in everything. This
8:31part right here doesn't really match
8:33what I'm remembering. But yeah, hairline
8:35doesn't match. Smaller one, older one.
8:37And just cuz it's been a long time.
8:40Um, can you remind me what number what
8:43what the younger one did like the main
8:45parts of it compared to the older one
8:47just for the last like clarity of stuff?
8:50So, for the record, so the younger one's
8:53the one that let me go and was the nicer
8:56of the two. Okay. The older one was
8:59really abusive and really mean and is
9:02the one that did all the really terrible
9:05things. Okay. And that that's my memory,
9:08too. Just trying to reference it for our
9:11notes and just so we don't have to say,
9:13"Oh, she was referring to the second
9:16interview back in 2017." Hard. I've
9:18given them those names in my head, but
9:22they're really they're not Is number
9:25three alive in that photo? Jesus. And
9:28then one more.
10:12As you can see here,
10:43I don't think anyone in this one really.
10:46So for six-pack number three, nobody
10:51really think so.
10:56So, we have more pictures. We're not
10:58that's not the end of the road. Um, so
11:01like I said with the female mill DNA,
11:04obviously we saw that first picture that
11:06has the wood paneling and got the table
11:08right. So that's that's ultimately what
11:10led us to those pictures which then
11:13snowballed us down the road that we're
11:15eventually at and where we are. So, were
11:18you able to find like where that house
11:21is? Yes. And what? Tell me more. Tell me
11:25more. Tell me more. Let me get to that.
11:28That's where I was going next.
11:31Point of view. And may I ask how did we
11:34even get to that point? How did we get
11:35that photo? Familiar DNA. So, they said
11:38they came back and said, "Oh, here's
11:40some people related in this familiar."
11:41There's about 40 people total. That's a
11:44good thing, I guess. But 40 is better
11:46than you just started going through and
11:4830 whatever the number that caught your
11:49eye. Yeah. We started looking at
11:51everything that we could. Phones, online
11:53presence, criminal history, Facebook
11:56photos, DMV photos are still like like
12:00he said, Denise obviously you guys are
12:01aware Denise is in a different location
12:03now. She's the one that found that
12:05picture. So we cast a wide net to start
12:09finding certain aspect. She's still
12:10working on the case even though she's in
12:12not officially, but I always call her
12:14and say, "Hey, what do you think about
12:15this? What do you think about that?" So
12:17much. But yeah, she's still working on
12:18it in an informal way.
12:23So, if you look at this closet,
12:35obviously there's there's stuff in there
12:37now. I'm not looking at the stuff.
12:42I literally was cleaning papers out
12:44yesterday and found that drawing that
12:46you
12:48did. I haven't even looked at the
12:50picture yet, but I've seen it out. Can I
12:52look at it?
13:08[Applause]
13:09You remember this? You mean? Yes. I just
13:12found the original one of that and I was
13:14trying to explain. It's a little bit
13:16different,
13:18but it's pretty excuse my language. It's
13:21pretty [ __ ] similar,
13:25but it's different.
13:28What's different or what's the same?
13:32It's hard. There's a lot of [ __ ] in the
13:33photos. But well, let's just focus on
13:37let's focus on those two. There's less
13:38there's less color in them. I've been
13:41I've done walked the streets with my
13:42wife's in Mexico. We went to every shop
13:44because of the color changes. No,
13:46nothing. Not because there was anything
13:48new in it. Just the color.
13:51Now, can I ask a question? Is this from
13:53the same house as the We
13:56don't What do you see in this photo,
13:59Shar? like what you said it looks very
14:02similar. What's I mean this is what I'm
14:05remembering that feeling you know
14:07grabbing it and feeling that feeling but
14:10this part is different. This part is
14:13different that doesn't definitely you're
14:15saying this metal part looks the same as
14:17what you
14:18remember but this piece right here this
14:21part doesn't look the same. Right. And
14:24what was the difference in it? That
14:26there was a lot more. There was a lot
14:28more there. bulkier reinforced. I don't
14:31think the pictures really show
14:35if I is it more metal or like beefier
14:39like if you look stronger this side of
14:42it a little bit more basically the width
14:44of a plywood a sheet of plywood is like
14:47a piece of plywood almost. It didn't
14:49look like that. Yeah, it looks blown up.
14:50So it makes it look like it's that thick
14:52but it's about like 3/4 inch somewhere.
14:55It's probably like half inch. Okay.
14:57Yeah, it looked big in the picture.
14:59Yeah, it didn't look like that. Okay,
15:02but
15:03similar besides the metal part. Anything
15:06else similar?
15:08I mean, the metal part. What about one
15:13shelf versus two shelves? Oh,
15:17um I think there was two shelves, but
15:20now I'm having trouble remembering. I
15:22think there was two. I'm pretty sure
15:23there was two. I can't Maybe there was
15:25two. I don't know. I'm focusing on this
15:26part right now. Sorry. Sure.
15:31So that's
15:39my
15:44window with the wood
15:50panel. Trying to ignore the TV and
15:52stuff. I don't think you had a TV with
15:53you, right? Definitely not.
15:56Um, what what am I looking for for the
15:59window? Do you want to know if it's like
16:00the same height? The type of window, the
16:03wall itself, anything in from these
16:06photos that make you believe that this
16:07was where you were being held? I feel
16:11like this wood paneling is too thick.
16:16But I mean,
16:18you mean there was wood paneling, but I
16:21don't I can't remember something like
16:23that being there. And I I don't
16:27remember. Okay.
16:30I remember it going all the way up to
16:32the window is what I'm having trouble
16:34remembering. The window in that photo
16:36has holes along the edges.
16:42There's holes together, right? Yeah. I'm
16:46holding a second here. We're going fast.
16:48Sorry. We don't mean to overwhelm you.
16:50We're just trying to draw your attention
16:53to different things that maybe we noted
16:56and we want to know how that compares
16:57with what you the window compared to the
16:59wood paneling because it getting just I
17:03don't I that's probably not important.
17:07I mean I don't know if I'm supposed to
17:09talk or not but obvious screw holes,
17:11right? Is that what you're getting at?
17:12They're just holes. Pulls through nail
17:15something. Okay. For the floor.
17:18Holy [ __ ]
17:29So, is it fair to say that
17:31this the paneling like wood paneling
17:34below and sheetrock above is what you
17:37remember, but you can't recall details
17:40about the ledge and the difference in
17:43width of the went up to the window.
17:45That's exactly what I was drawn to is
17:47that this is touching how it meets the
17:49window and I don't threshold. Yeah.
17:52Okay. Something's going funky with that.
17:56Well, those pictures could be one before
17:58or after. We could be off base that and
18:01it couldn't even be a detail that's been
18:03important. So far,
18:06so one of the things that we always
18:07noted in the like the bathroom
18:09description is just the the weird layout
18:12of the bathroom. So, do you remember the
18:14layout of the bathroom? Yes. Well, let's
18:16talk about the descript best
18:17description, then we'll start showing
18:19some there's door,
18:22toilet, sink, tub. Is that what you
18:24mean? So you walk in the door first.
18:27There's a toilet. Yes. On the right. Do
18:28you remember which side? If
18:33I'm just in general, I am I don't know.
18:38But whatever. You You walk in the door
18:40on one left or right, you have a toilet.
18:42Then I want to say on the left. I'm
18:45sorry. That's fine. I want to say toilet
18:48on the left. Okay. So maybe toilet on
18:51the left. Okay. Hold on. Toilet on the
18:52side. Toilet on the side. And then
18:54what's this? Toilet on the side. Sink,
18:58tub. Okay. And that's a unique thing
19:00about bathrooms. We all agree with that.
19:03Hard to change where that sewer will go,
19:05right? It takes some takes some expense
19:06to do that. Yes. Yes. I think it's the
19:10first turn upside
19:19down. All right. Now, I'm ready.
19:32Well, that that's just pleasant.
19:36Don't pay attention to the magazine.
19:39I mean, is that the first thing that you
19:46Oh, come on. We were talking about the
19:48order.
19:49We were talking about the order magazine
19:52is not open. So I mean this doesn't look
19:54like the bathroom to me, but the order
19:58is Yes, this is the type of order, but
20:01this is not what it looked like to me.
20:05And so the order is correct, but you
20:07don't recognize the bathroom as being
20:09what you would call. Do you remember
20:11there was a detail about the shower that
20:13you provided
20:14previously? Uh about the type of
20:20something on the tile or something like
20:21that. Do you remember? There was tile in
20:23the tub. There was a crack. Where was
20:25the crack?
20:28It's not a memory test. If you don't
20:29remember, that's fine. But we we
20:31remembered that detail when we took some
20:33of these poses and we just wanted to
20:35bump it up against what you might
20:36remember.
20:40I don't know. I don't know.
20:45in general are we talking about okay
20:51fine that's
20:53okay take your time
20:57I don't know I know I remember there's a
21:00crack I'm not
21:02so for like trying to do you remember if
21:04it was high or low was any of those like
21:08details horizontal
21:11vertical one tile lots of tiles
21:30Not sure if I'm supposed to. Can I talk
21:32or not? Sure. If unless she touches you,
21:34she's trying. I'm sorry. I'm trying to
21:36like get myself there. And as a
21:39reminder, I do remember when we went to
21:41my grandma's house. you didn't like her
21:43tile because it reminded me of that and
21:45I think I sent you sent us a picture.
21:47That's why I would say we that's I just
21:49want to remind her because if you think
21:50of that because I can't even think of
21:51what her tile looks like right now but I
21:53do remember you didn't like that at all
21:56but I can't remember the crack. I
21:57remember you told me the crack but I
21:59remember what you told me or else I'd
22:00bring it up. But yeah, I don't know. I'm
22:02I'm so nervous of like saying something
22:04that's not going to be right. So I I
22:08just can't remember. I don't Like I said
22:09in the beginning, we only want the truth
22:11and so whatever is the best
22:14understanding or memory that you have
22:16there and my direction is obviously not
22:18the best. So then this is starting
22:27to that doesn't look
22:30right to me.
22:33But
22:36so this crack is in a different location
22:38than this crack, which is probably
22:39better viewed in this photo.
22:43Yeah.
22:48But this is the same bathroom we showed
22:50you, the this is the same one with the
22:52Charming magazine on the Sports
22:54Illustrated. Yes.
23:02Okay. It's nothing jumps out at you at
23:03that point. We're not trying to
23:04overwhelm you. Obviously, it's been a
23:07long road and and here we are.
23:11If we could go back to the closet really
23:13quick, though. I remember when you were
23:15talking about being changed into a
23:18closet and trying to figure out a way to
23:20get loose. You talked about working on a
23:25screw, right? Uhhuh. And what happened
23:27to that screw when you were done with
23:28it? I dug a hole in the wall and poked
23:31it into the wall. Okay. Because this
23:35is was an interesting photo as well.
23:41Is this in the closet? That's in the
23:43closet. No, it was I It was drywall. It
23:46was into the drywall. It was into
23:48drywall, but by the electric plug if I
23:51remember right. Yeah. Mhm. Okay.
23:54So, maybe not that one. No.
23:58Okay.
24:01So, we're showing you all of this
24:04um because ultimately this is the house
24:08um that that you were at. Um we talked
24:12to the people who lived there. Um we
24:17sorry, we we've we found the house. We
24:20found who is involved. Um we talked to
24:23who is involved. Um, we talked to family
24:26who who knows that you were there. Um,
24:30and talked to a couple people that or
24:32talked to one guy um who did see you um
24:37during this event. Um,
24:40unfortunately, there's a lot of truths.
24:42There's a lot of things that were that
24:45were said that we have always confirmed
24:48that we've always said there's there's a
24:50lot of truths and then there's some
24:52unknowns. Like one of the simple ones
24:54like, "Well, this description of the
24:55bathroom is just weird." Like that was
24:57like an argument in all of our offices
24:59where we were sitting there like, "This
25:01this part's weird." Um, but then we find
25:04a house with it. Then the the all thread
25:07through the thing that's just that's
25:09just weird.
25:10It's unique to this place. Like that's a
25:13pretty custom. You can't just go out to
25:15IKEA and buy a closet that looks like
25:17this. Yeah, exactly. Right. So once once
25:20we have all those things and we start
25:22talking to the person who lives here,
25:24who had lived there, who still lives
25:26there, um start talking to his family
25:29and starting that whole investigation,
25:31peeling one thing back after another
25:32after another, doing the same thing
25:34we've done for the last four years. Um
25:38it led us to a specific person, um but
25:41not a female. It led us to the car that
25:44picked you up, but not an SUV. So,
25:48there's lots of different aspects that
25:50are truths and falses. Um, and we're
25:54we're to the point now that nobody would
25:58have ever imagined that this would have
26:00blown up the way that it did. So, I've
26:03been a cop 15 years. I've never seen the
26:06media scale that that this garnered
26:10pretty quickly. Um, how long have you
26:13been in law enforcement now? 12 years in
26:14the bureau. So like of the minds Brian
26:18who' been around 20 plus years people
26:20have been in my office like 25 30 plus
26:24years the media attention that this got
26:26out was was
26:28insane. Um so I think with that being
26:32said some choices and some decisions
26:35ultimately ultimately changed the
26:38original path of of what happened. Um, I
26:43don't think anybody would have wished
26:46the media frenzy that occurred like for
26:49this event, no matter what the
26:50situation, if it was a kid, because the
26:53media skewed so many facts. It it
26:55brought so many people in from the
26:57woodwork that if we didn't have the
26:59woodwork, we wouldn't have the noise and
27:00that brings a lot of pressure when you
27:03get that kind of scrutiny. Um, so we
27:06we'd like to talk to you more about
27:08those things and we can do it with Keith
27:10here or we can ask Keith to leave. Um,
27:12it's whatever you're comfortable with so
27:14we can break down some of the problems.
27:18If you want Keith here, all we want is
27:21to to to have the truth. All we want is
27:24be able to tell the truth. Um, all
27:27that's all we've ever wanted from day
27:29one. Um, we went we've talked with you
27:32for hours. We've been there. We we've
27:33done the all these different things
27:35waiting for something waiting for it to
27:37break waiting for us to get leap
27:40something to hear. Um cuz the DNA came
27:43back like I said to a specific person.
27:46That specific person told us very
27:48specific things. Um his family then told
27:52us specific things. Um so if we can talk
27:57with Keith or without Keith
27:59here, what would you like?
28:12It's it's completely up to you.
28:15Um, and like I've always said, I wanted
28:18you to have a voice. I wanted you to
28:20make decisions. I wanted you to control
28:23certain aspects. I think I told you that
28:25on the first interview we ever had. I
28:27never want to bully you. I never want
28:29you to believe I'm bullying you. I want
28:31you to take back
28:33control. That's one of those things.
28:35This is that take back control of the
28:37interview which I promised you to do the
28:40first time we talked if you remember
28:41that. Actually, we were in Mount Shasta.
28:43So, the second time we talked. Um, it's
28:46been a long road, Sherry, but we just
28:48want to talk to you. We can have step
28:50out if that's going to make you more
28:51comfortable.
28:54It's up to you.
28:58Do you want to step out or do you want
28:59to stay? Obviously, I want to stay.
29:05Or we could do a little bit of both.
29:06Talk to you alone first and have him
29:08come back
29:15in. And it's completely up to you. And
29:19that's why not looking at Keith. I don't
29:21care about your opinion.
29:23I What we want out of this is just is
29:27the truth. Um, so we can get ahead of
29:30some things, so we can help control
29:32things. How crazy things got. So the
29:35unknown of if I say certain things,
29:38what's Keith's reaction? Because you
29:40don't know what I'm going to say, right?
29:42So I don't know Keith's reaction either.
29:44Um, so if I say other things like, oh,
29:46Keith won't worry about that. He can
29:47come back in. But I'd rather give you
29:49the opportunity to hear things, be able
29:53to judge it because everything, right?
29:55I'm saying things to you that are making
29:57me nervous. It's making Keith nervous.
30:00It's It's changing the element, right?
30:01What we changed the tone of the
30:03interview. You can feel it already in
30:04the room from the way you walked in to
30:06what you're feeling right now.
30:09So, well, I mean, law enforcement has
30:12always been an issue. So,
30:15Okay. So, if if you want to keep the
30:18leave, I'll ask Keith nicely to leave.
30:21Um, if you don't want to keep the leave,
30:22then he can sit here. Let's press on.
30:25press on and we'll we'll move on to the
30:27next stages.
30:30But I want to give you that opportunity
30:40first. But obviously everything's
30:43fearful. If you tell him to leave and
30:45what I'm going to say is benign, then
30:48then he's we can pull him back in the
30:50room like, "Hey Keith, come on. This
30:52this is what this is what we talked
30:54about. Um so so there that fear of him
30:58wigging out why why is she trying to
30:59hide something from me? There isn't if
31:02there's been help. Yeah. There's no
31:04trick here. We're just trying to make
31:05sure that you're as comfortable to talk
31:07as you can if you need to talk to us
31:08truthfully.
31:11They're asking you. They're not asking
31:13me. Obviously I I would want to be here
31:14and whatever needs to come out and you
31:16can change your mind at the future too
31:17if you want to change what it's going to
31:19be up. So like I said in the beginning,
31:20you're free to go. So it is if you
31:22wanted to chat with them privately
31:24that's fine too but we want to talk to
31:26you and we can leave the room give you
31:27guys the room for a couple minutes. Um
31:29this next stage of things could be could
31:32be benign could be like I oh I we forgot
31:36to tell you this or oh yeah all these
31:39things make sense now. Um this I could
31:42tell you the puzzle that makes it all
31:43come together or I can tell the puzzle
31:45that crashes everything apart. I don't
31:47know what that piece is honestly. All I
31:50know is facts. All I know is certain
31:52specific items that will either tear the
31:54castle down or it's going to build the
31:56castle up. And I don't want to I don't
31:58want to build tear the castle down. And
32:00not give you the ability to then fix
32:04your own castle. Even if it's just a
32:05small thing here or it's the whole
32:08castle, I want you to be able to to
32:11choose that. Um so we can step out of
32:13the room, let you guys talk because I
32:15don't know what information I'm going to
32:17do. if it's life-changing news or if
32:20it's Oh, yeah. Everything's fine. I just
32:23don't know what it is. Usually, right,
32:25we showed the pictures because
32:27everybody's invested in this picture.
32:29Keith, do the drawings. Keith's the one
32:31who laid gave this stuff. So, Keith has
32:33always been a part of your memory for
32:35small details and that's why Keith's
32:38been in here this whole time and that's
32:40why he makes me feel safe anyway.
32:42Absolutely. If he makes you feel safe
32:44too, we can continue on. I know you can
32:45change. Absolutely.
32:48And again, I just don't know what the
32:50pieces are. So, if I would say, "Hey,
32:52this is going to bring the whole world
32:53down." I'd tell you, "This is going to
32:54bring the whole world down." And then we
32:57need to talk talk alone. Um, or I would
33:00suggest we talk alone. But that's
33:03completely up to you guys cuz I don't
33:04know. You just want to talk? Yeah, we'll
33:07be we'll be right back.
33:24You need to stop what you're doing. Tell
33:26me the truth. I don't want to fight.
33:29Yeah. Whatever doesn't mean stuff to me.
33:33I don't want them to. I don't want to. I
33:38don't want to know about what's going
33:40on. Can you do my I don't give a [ __ ]
33:42about that. I don't want them to find
33:45her.
33:47I don't want them to find her. I don't
33:49want her to be arrested. I don't want to
33:51press her. I just want her. I don't want
33:53to find her. Explain to me right now.
33:57I don't I don't know. I don't want them
34:00to find her. You're not listening to me.
34:02Why? Because she saved my life. But tell
34:05me, honey, there's obviously something.
34:08There's obviously something. This is
34:10going to be really bad if you don't look
34:13at her name right now. I am [ __ ] with
34:16you right now. I don't want them to find
34:19her. I don't want to press charges and I
34:21don't want I don't want to go down that
34:22road. You tell her
34:26I don't want to go down that road. I
34:28don't want to because she saved my life
34:31and she's the reason why I get to hold
34:33my children every single day because I
34:36don't want to get into the police. I
34:39don't want them to find her. I don't
34:43avoid her. I don't want them to arrest
34:47her. Why? Because she saved my life. So
34:52you don't trust her. They still need to
34:54find out who it
35:01is. No matter what you think, just just
35:04sits here.
35:08this comes out, they find the house,
35:09it's over. Whatever happened is over.
35:12And it doesn't matter what you say,
35:13they're going to the girl's going to get
35:15in
35:17trouble.
35:20So, I'm the truth. The truth. If you
35:24don't want to press charges, then up to
35:30you. I don't think I can do
35:34that. You're not making enough.
35:38to the point where I'm getting
35:43scared. So, you need
35:46to tell me what's going on.
35:55Yeah. Tell them what you're
35:57[Music]
36:02thinking. or not. And obviously
36:05hopefully you've had a chance to chat
36:06briefly. The fears later
36:10maybe just answer the question. Nothing
36:12that we that I'll say to you. I won't
36:15eventually tell him if you know if you
36:17want me to. Do you want me to just tell
36:20what your fears are?
36:22We would love to hear what your fears
36:24are because we want to be able to
36:26address them as best we can.
36:39I don't I don't know. I don't know.
36:44Yeah. I feel like you're you're in the
36:46driver's seat right now. I think it's
36:49easier to control things once you know
36:50what the information is to be honest
36:53with you. Sure. So the I can tell you
36:56what it is.
36:59Say say what it is when Keith leaves and
37:01then you can say yes or no whether or
37:03not you want him in there for the rest
37:05of it. For right now he's just am I in
37:07the room or am I out of the room? So and
37:09I'm and I'm I'm to the point where if
37:12you want him here we'll just go on with
37:13the conversation. As long as you're not
37:15interrupting
37:17or stay over here.
37:21But if he steps out I can say a name and
37:24then you can choose whether you want you
37:26want him in here for the rest of it or
37:27not. It's completely up to you. Or I can
37:30just continue on. And again, like I
37:33said, I wanted you to always have
37:34control um over certain aspects of
37:50stuff. We're not to a point where
37:52anybody's going to jail yet. We're not
37:55to a point of any anything like that.
37:57We're We're just still at the talking
37:59stage. We're at the control
38:02stage. You seem scared, Shar. No, it's
38:05not scary. What is it?
38:36When you don't answer,
38:39Sherry, it makes me concerned because I
38:42want to hear what your answers are and I
38:43want to be able
38:46to
38:47understand. The only way to control
38:49things is for us to know.
38:54I I don't want you to find her. We're
38:58not going to find her.
39:01She's the reason why I get to see my
39:03children every day.
39:05I agree. But we're not going to find
39:07her. She's the reason. What do you mean
39:08by that? She means the younger one that
39:10let her go, right? Is that what you're
39:13referring
39:14to? We're not going to find her.
39:19And we can we can just skip to we can
39:21skip to the rock into the water and
39:23ruffle up the pond if we want to. Now
39:26again this is your last opport this this
39:28is the last time if you want to do this
39:30alone or with Keith. Keith's been
39:32through this also on a different
39:35level. So I'm I'm ready just to I'm
39:40ready to move on and and throw the dart
39:42and throw the rock and see what happens
39:43to the water. But Sherry, look look at
39:46me. What do you want?
39:48I don't want her to get in trouble.
39:51She's not going to get in trouble. So,
39:54the DNA came back to James
39:58Ray. You're the DNA that was on you
40:01belongs to James Ray. The picture in the
40:04Can I get the
40:06picture? The the picture of the table is
40:10James Ray's little brother. He died
40:12recently.
40:16He we talk to him. We He's been on a
40:20polygraph. We talked to everybody around
40:23him. We have the rental agreements,
40:26phone rental, car rental agreements. We
40:29have We have everything that says that
40:33he said he told the truth. That's James
40:35brother, deceased Nick.
40:39So everything you've told us so many
40:42truths in this situation. The reason why
40:45you can describe the room is because you
40:48stayed in the room in the dark for hours
40:50for days on end. The reason why you lost
40:53so much weight is because you stopped
40:55eating. The reason why you got a rash on
40:57your arm was because you cleaned his
40:59house. The reason why the brand is
41:02because he went to the store, bought the
41:04branding tools, and branded you. the
41:06reason why your nose was broken is
41:08because of a hockey
41:10stick. I know all of those things and I
41:14know there was no sex. I know all of
41:16that because he passed a polygraph test
41:19that said it's not an abduction. She
41:23asked me to come get her. No, I rented a
41:26car. I drove up and picked her up.
41:30He He passed the polygraph test. Sherry,
41:33if that's not what happened, what did
41:34happen?
41:35I don't
41:37know. No, there's no way. It's J.
41:41There's no way. There's no way. The DNA
41:44doesn't lie. His DNA. His DNA was on
41:47you. His There's no way. Robert saw you
41:50in the
41:51house while you were down there while
41:54everything spoke out of control. His
41:57cousin.
41:58Why everything ran out of control on the
42:01initial? There's no way.
42:05It's It's 100% Robert's or James's DNA.
42:10We even collected blonde hairs from the
42:11room.
42:14There's no way it's James. There's no
42:17way that it is. Why are you saying it's
42:19not James?
42:23Why are you saying it's not?
42:28They found me. What's up? We were
42:32friends. There's no way. And he came and
42:35got you because you asked him.
42:38No. When was the last time you had
42:39contact with James?
42:42His brother died.
42:45Brother died in
42:482017. Is that right?
42:51I don't remember.
42:54Was it before or after the abduction?
42:57Before.
43:01Before. When was the last time you saw
43:03James?
43:09I don't know. Forever ago when I lived
43:13in Southern California. So the last
43:15person to person contact you had with
43:17him was back in 2006.
43:20When you were living in Southern
43:21California? I don't know.
43:25So was it prior to your marriage?
43:29It's him. There is no way it's him.
43:32Well, it is the DNA tells us that it it
43:34was his DNA on you. The the DNA alone
43:38says it's him. And when we talk to him,
43:41confront him with the DNA, he told us
43:43what happened. He 100% told us what
43:45happened. He gave us details that nobody
43:47else would know. And we can call him and
43:49we can all talk about it. But
43:53ultimately, can you look at me for a
43:55second? Ultimately, we put him on a
43:57polygraph like we did Keith.
44:00Keith was inconclusive to be honest with
44:03you on whether he was involved or
44:06not, but 100% James was telling the
44:10truth. The questions were, did Sher ask
44:14you to come pick her up? He answered
44:16yes. That was a truth on a
44:18polygraph. We asked him if the two of
44:21you ever had sex. The answer was no.
44:24During 2016. during 2016 during the
44:27abduction. He said no. That was a truth.
44:30We asked him if you asked him to brand
44:33if you asked him to brand you. The
44:35answer was yes. And he passed the
44:37polygraph on all of those
44:41questions. He took us to the stores
44:43where he bought the chain. He tal we
44:46talked to the friend who rented the car.
44:48The car that he rented drove over 900
44:50miles in a day on the drop off point.
44:54Sure.
44:57I know this is a lot to take in.
45:01It's not like we don't know the answers
45:02to these questions. And the fear of fear
45:06of Keith's reaction, obviously now he's
45:08in the room. The fear of media, the fear
45:12of all of these things are coming are
45:16coming forward. They're in front of you
45:18now.
45:20The only way to get a hold of it, the
45:22only way for everybody to come together
45:24and heal, the whole community has to
45:26heal is to is for us to be able to say
45:30when we when we presented all of the
45:32evidence, all the stuff that came
45:35forward, she you told us the truth. You
45:38told us what happened because you did go
45:42in a dark room. That's true. You did
45:45slay in the backseat of a car. That's
45:48true.
45:49You did um lose weight. You were
45:52branded. Your hair was cut. You did have
45:55bruises all over. But how those bruises
45:58got there are because you did it and
46:00James did
46:01something. The reason why your nose got
46:03broke is because you held the hockey
46:05stick to your face and he forced it into
46:07your nose. The reason why the brand is
46:10in a straight line is because he did it.
46:13He described exactly where it was. He
46:16told us exactly how he did it, where he
46:18did it, how he did it. Only you and I
46:20and maybe five other people know where
46:22the brand was. He told me
46:27immediately. Robert told friends and
46:29family you were there. His mom knew that
46:31you were there cuz of course it went
46:32news and everybody knew you guys dated.
46:34Everybody knew you guys had a
46:36relationship. So when it happened, of
46:38course, family reached out to him. He
46:40told him, "Yeah, she was here." But it
46:42said it hurt her. I didn't hurt her.
46:52So, what are you thinking, Sherry? That
46:55doesn't make any sense. Why doesn't make
46:57sense?
47:00What actions doesn't make sense? A lot
47:03of it doesn't make sense.
47:06Can we talk about those?
47:09No.
47:13James D and the Ape was confirmed on on
47:16your
47:17clothing. The two of you haven't seen
47:19each other in over a
47:21decade. If you you told me that you
47:23haven't been in his room, you haven't
47:24had contact with him in over 10 years.
47:26However, you described his bedroom to a
47:28tea. And this and the DNA on you was
47:32still a vibrant piece of DNA. 10year-old
47:35DNA dies. The DNA that was there
47:39specifically was nonseiminal fluid. was
47:41was
47:44similar. You got that from his house
47:47somewhere. So whether it was the bed
47:50that you were sleeping on, whether it
47:51was the couch, whether it was anywhere
47:53in
47:55there, when somebody would come to the
47:57door and be around the property, you'd
48:00call James. James would call Robert,
48:02which is those two doors down, Robert
48:04would run people off the property.
48:07Robert told me all of that.
48:09James told me
48:11everything. So the only person that
48:14hasn't started telling us certain facts,
48:17there are certain facts that are true.
48:19When we were sitting there talking to
48:21James, there were so many truths that
48:23were a part of your story that it's hard
48:26to decipher the
48:28lies. Until we put it all together,
48:31until he says, "Hey, why how did you
48:33pick her up?" I open up the passenger
48:35side seat. I open the door. You jumped
48:37in the back seat. Why? Why'd you do
48:40that? Why'd you do that? I don't know.
48:42It was
48:44weird. So So are you are you calling
48:46James a
48:48liar? Do we not are Are we not believing
48:50James? What he told me? No.
48:57I know. I know you're scared. I cannot
48:59believe that it is James.
49:02I can't believe James told us the truth.
49:04That's what I can't believe.
49:09He passed a polygraph shirt. So did
49:11Keith. No, he didn't. He was
49:13inconclusive and he was involved. So
49:16James is involved. So James is involved.
49:19But I don't James picked you up. You
49:21called James to pick you up. You mailed
49:23him a letter with your address. You used
49:26a No, you used a burner phone to call
49:28another burner phone for James to come
49:31and get you. You're saying since you're
49:32married, you haven't called James? No, I
49:35haven't called James because earlier you
49:37said you had contacted
49:40James cuz phone records show that you
49:43do. You did.
49:45The phones don't lie. The DNA doesn't
49:47lie. Sherry, his polygraph doesn't lie.
49:50So, we you can go a couple different
49:52directions. Now, his story I've already
49:53told you lying to me is a crime. So, you
49:55walk out the store, we're telling lies
49:57and that's a crime.
49:59I think we need my lawyer.
50:02This isn't making any sense. Well, it's
50:05not making sense, Sher. The parts that
50:07don't. No, the parts that don't make
50:10sense are that you're accusing two
50:12females who abducted you when it was
50:14James. The part that you were branded,
50:18James did it. He told me he did. Who
50:20would who would sit there and say, "No,
50:22I branded her branded Sher on her right
50:25shoulder." Like, who does that? You told
50:28us how and showed us the letters that
50:29matched the brand. took us to the store
50:31and pointed out the letters.
50:38The problem is today today's the case is
50:42resolved. Everything the only things
50:45Well, how do we prove that you're
50:47telling us the truth? How do we prove
50:50that the tr the truth is that two women
50:53took you? But I I'm telling you it's a
50:55male. The the fact that you were branded
50:58is true. The small fact is that you
51:01willingly laid down and did it versus
51:03being tied to a table. So we could
51:06always we could do the polygraph and try
51:08to whatever parts you're confused about.
51:11Can you go without saying? Can I talk to
51:13you outside real quick?
51:15Wait, that's fine.
51:19The the fears of how out of control
51:22everything got, the fear of all these
51:24things is the reality.
51:28And the only people that can slow the
51:30train down is you and
51:34I. You put yourself through this so when
51:37you came forward you can tell certain
51:39stories. You missed
51:42the you couldn't control the DNA that we
51:47found. You couldn't control when we
51:49talked to James, he'd tell us what
51:51happened.
51:57The story always was hard for anybody to
52:01understand. The tragedy that the
52:03community went through, the events that
52:06unfolded, the fear now of what what it
52:09all
52:11means, but there's without a doubt
52:13James' DNA was on you.
52:16I
52:17can't no the likelihood it being an
52:21ex-boyfriend is a problem. No, it's
52:24astronomical.
52:27Then you add in when we go talk to
52:29people who never even heard of us. When
52:32we say, "Hey, what's going on here?"
52:33They knew that you were at the house.
52:35All of them never came forward.
52:40No. No. What?
52:48Do you want to call James?
52:55This was a long
52:57road. I had no idea where it was going
53:00to take
53:02me. But right
53:05now, continuing and saying that two
53:07girls took you is a lie to
53:10Peter. It's just a lie cuz we were able
53:14to prove it with evidence with a rental
53:16car agreement. Person driving to 1,000
53:19miles in a
53:20day. the DNA on you and him passing a
53:24polygraph. It's it's three legs to a
53:27three legs to a table that can
53:31stand
53:35out. Now's your
53:39[Music]
53:41opportunity. Based on your reaction
53:43previously, what you're telling me is
53:44you did not call James and ask him to
53:46come get
53:47you. Is that what you're saying?
53:51Because if that's what you're saying, I
53:53have to understand
53:55that there are things he says that we
53:58can corroborate and whatever you say,
54:00we're going to try and corroborate. But
54:02right now, I'm not sure what you're
54:03saying. You're just saying you can't
54:04believe it's
54:05him. And you're saying you don't
54:09understand, but there are deals details
54:11he provided. We know he you were in his
54:13house. We collected hairs from that
54:17bedroom. That's going to have DNA. We
54:20already have your hairs that you left
54:21with your cell phone when you were
54:23picked up. You have my DNA, obviously.
54:27So, that's not going to lie either. The
54:30descriptions you provided are that room
54:32and that house to a tea, except it's not
54:36a gravel driveway. And it's not
54:39elevated. And there's not two women who
54:41live
54:42there. But James lives there. James
54:46lives there. You know, James lives
54:48there.
54:51So, you might as well get out of your
54:52head that James is not involved cuz
54:54James is clearly involved and James
54:56already told us he's the one that did
54:57the brain.
55:00That's something that he admitted to
55:02mayhem. He admitted to a felony you can
55:04put him in prison over. How would that
55:06How do you It doesn't just It doesn't
55:09jive. So, now it's your opportunity to
55:11say, "Were there issues between you and
55:14Keith? Is that why you needed to leave?
55:16I mean, we read your text message. We're
55:18already aware of some issues, but
55:20enlighten us if that's the case. If
55:22there was a valid reason for you to
55:24leave, let me know what that was. James
55:27said you had your job broken by him and
55:29that's why he came and got you cuz you
55:30were in an abusive relationship. I love
55:33my husband. So, were you in an abusive
55:36relationship with
55:38him? Have you told other people in your
55:41life that like China that Keith has
55:44abused you in the past when that wasn't
55:46true?
55:48China told me that day
55:52two where there was an incident at a
55:54party that you got hurt playing like I
55:58don't know Wii or Pictionary or
55:59something and then you told other
56:01friends that Keith heard you when there
56:04was witnesses at the party that said you
56:05just that you got hurt during a party
56:08but then you go
56:10tell James that you were being hurt you
56:13were being abused and you couldn't come
56:15forward because Keith has friends in law
56:16enforcement
56:17If all of that is that true.
56:25Has Keith ever been abusive towards you?
56:27We are not talking about my husband. I
56:30love my husband.
56:33So why leave?
56:36Is James lying to us?
56:39I want to leave my husband. I want to be
56:41with my children. I would never leave my
56:44children. But you did leave them
56:47permanently. You came back to them
56:49ultimately. No, you left them every day
56:51at daycare. So, it's not like
56:56they James talked about that decision
56:58when you were driving down, how hard
57:00that was. You left at 10:00 knowing that
57:03Keith was going to get home late,
57:05knowing you were going to leave the kids
57:06at daycare and how much that tore you up
57:09on the drive
57:11down. You told us that.
57:15Then things got out of control. And I
57:16talked about that. We did talk about
57:20that before. Wait,
57:24when I went out of town for work. What
57:27happened?
57:32Always talk to other guys. Oh my god.
57:35Why did I do that? Like when you were in
57:38Eureka, you give him a
57:40call. Did you start chatting with them?
57:44told him some of your
57:46problems. When did it turn from just
57:48chatting to his plan to get away?
57:53No. No. No. You were getting a hold of
57:57Donovan Mitzky the night before. Why did
58:00I do that?
58:03We're trying to understand why you did
58:05that, too. We're trying to understand
58:06all of it. I don't know. I don't know
58:10how this position because I was doing
58:12that.
58:14Such an awful choice talking to other
58:17guys that has got me here.
58:22So, are you What aspect are you saying?
58:25Like, how how did how does talking to
58:26other people got you here? Well, you've
58:28gotten over I love my husband. I thought
58:30my husband and I made mistakes and I
58:32talked to other men that I shouldn't
58:35have. But but we took it a step further
58:37this time.
58:39This is a little different than just
58:40chatting with them. I I appreciate you
58:43talking and being forthright about the
58:46other guys you were talking to. When did
58:49it turn into something more? Obviously,
58:52you never would have imagined that CNN
58:55and 2020 and Good Morning America would
58:57care about you wanting to leave Keith or
59:00wanting to teach him a lesson. Or
59:02wanting to get him in line. No, I was
59:05just talking to James and you don't want
59:08to leave us.
59:11How are you talking to James? How are
59:14you talking to James? I don't want to
59:17leave. Shar, how were you talking to
59:19James?
59:23On your on your cell phone or another
59:26cell phone? My work cell. My work cell
59:28phone. I don't want to leave my husband.
59:31I don't want to look at me this way.
59:34This is more like just a flirt.
59:37What's your work cell phone number?
59:39Remember? What's that? I don't remember.
59:48How long were you guys talking?
59:51I don't know.
59:54Why would he have Why would he rent a
59:56car and come and get you? I don't know.
59:59Well, if you don't know that, why would
1:00:01you get in the car and and go down to
1:00:03Costa Mesa?
1:00:07Those are all things we can verify,
1:00:08Sherry. The car rental, the fuel, the
1:00:13mileage, the calls from you to him, the
1:00:16burner phone, all that can be proven.
1:00:19Horrible.
1:00:21I don't think you're a horrible person,
1:00:22Sherry. I think things went a little
1:00:24sideways on you. I we we started this
1:00:26conversation. Knew what this was going
1:00:28to turn into. I didn't know that I'd
1:00:31have people standing on boxes in front
1:00:33of my office. That Keith would be on
1:00:352020.
1:00:37But my husband, I want my children. I
1:00:42stupid for talking to other guys. But
1:00:46why did why did James come and get you?
1:00:49I know you guys were talking. I know
1:00:51you've said in the past that Keith has
1:00:53hurt you to other friends. Why tell him
1:00:56those details if that stuff's not true.
1:00:58It's one thing to talk.
1:01:01It's one thing to talk. It's another
1:01:03thing to to say abuse is
1:01:06occurring. Everybody I talked to about
1:01:08James said he's the nicest person in the
1:01:11whole world. Yeah, he may be a hockey
1:01:12player, but he is the nicest person in
1:01:15the world. He's nice to a fault.
1:01:20I don't I I know lots of people. I don't
1:01:22know anybody I'd run a car for and drive
1:01:249 hours for. Keith James did that for
1:01:28you.
1:01:32Helping you. He never asked you why. He
1:01:35never questioned anything. He never
1:01:37reward money on the line. He never asked
1:01:39for anything. He didn't ask for sexual
1:01:43relations. He didn't ask for a
1:01:44relationship after you. He didn't ask
1:01:46for anything.
1:01:48He's never even talked to you since.
1:01:51And yet he's stayed quiet until now. And
1:01:54the only reason why he talked is because
1:01:56we have his
1:01:57DNA. That's the only reason why we got
1:02:00to his door. That's the only thing that
1:02:01led us to his closet. That's the only
1:02:03thing that led us to the bathroom.
1:02:04That's
1:02:06Goofy. And that's the only reason why he
1:02:08started talking to us once we showed him
1:02:11once he showed us the bedroom and we
1:02:13started pointing out the holes in the
1:02:14wall like, "You used to have this board
1:02:16up, huh?" and he said, "Yeah,
1:02:19Sharon asked me to put boards up.
1:02:24There's nobody's ever going to be asked
1:02:27be able to answer why decisions were
1:02:29made." Except for Jean.
1:02:34You don't understand what
1:02:40what parts do you not understand? He
1:02:42even showed us Jerry. He even showed us
1:02:45the letters that were used for the brain
1:02:47and the
1:02:48numbers. I got pictures of them right
1:02:50here.
1:02:52This is set that was used. What did the
1:02:55Bible verse mean to you? How would you
1:02:56have known that?
1:02:58[Applause]
1:03:00Why did you pick that Bible verse?
1:03:14James spoke the Bible
1:03:27verse. We need to be able to control the
1:03:29outcome and what's going to happen next.
1:03:32The only thing we know is going to
1:03:34happen right now is what you can tell
1:03:36us, what you can shed light on, and for
1:03:38other people to be able
1:03:41to try to
1:03:43understand. If it was a mistake, it was
1:03:45a mistake. But at this point, not
1:03:49telling us what happened, not telling us
1:03:51the truth is another mistake. It's a
1:03:53mistake on top of a
1:03:55mistake. Right now, we can start over.
1:03:59We can we can end we can leave without
1:04:02without a dirty conscious without the
1:04:04what's going to happen next. Right now
1:04:06deep down inside Sherry I know you know
1:04:08what's right and what you should do and
1:04:11you should come clean.
1:04:18Why did you ask James to come to get
1:04:20you?
1:04:30You asked Donovan the night before to
1:04:33come meet up with you. Everything
1:04:35happened at once.
1:04:38You were asking a stupid thing to do.
1:04:41The thing about is we were able to prove
1:04:42that Donovan never came up here, but now
1:04:45we can prove that James did. We have
1:04:48records to prove it. I don't understand.
1:04:53Although you might not think it was a
1:04:55good idea now, 2020 hindsight, at the
1:04:58time, why did you ask them to come pick
1:05:00you
1:05:06up? Was that an I don't know.
1:05:15What's that?
1:05:17Can't be James.
1:05:20It is
1:05:21James. We can go. The DNA doesn't lie.
1:05:25His DNA was on you.
1:05:28Your DNA is going to be in that room.
1:05:30One in
1:05:31septillion. James. I don't even know how
1:05:34many zeros septilian is. We all That's
1:05:37why despite your description of how far
1:05:39you might have gone in the car, we
1:05:41already went down there. We knocked on
1:05:43his door. We took those pictures.
1:05:51He understood that the DNA didn't lie,
1:05:53so he came clean. Now it's your chance
1:05:56to do the
1:05:57same. And if you don't, you're going to
1:06:00be shaking your head later and say, "I
1:06:02should have told him what happened."
1:06:04Talk to me like that.
1:06:08Like what?
1:06:14There's so many fears right now that we
1:06:16can't even wrap our head around it.
1:06:18There's there's too many unknowns that
1:06:20we can't control. We can't control what
1:06:23what the media is going to do. We can't
1:06:26control what what everybody's going to
1:06:30think. The only thing we can control
1:06:32right now is to control that that James
1:06:36told us the truth. And that's that's a
1:06:37yes or a
1:06:42no. What did James lie about? What did
1:06:44James lie to us about?
1:06:48of the thing of the things I've told
1:06:50you. I don't know. I don't
1:06:53know. I just don't know. There's just no
1:06:57way it can be James. I just don't know.
1:07:00I don't know. It is James. That's not
1:07:03even the question anymore. We know you
1:07:04were in that room. That's
1:07:06already clear. You You described
1:07:09everything in the room.
1:07:12What you're saying is it wasn't James
1:07:14that came and picked you up by the
1:07:15mailboxes. Is that what you're
1:07:18saying? They're still two
1:07:24females. Is that what you're saying? Sh
1:07:31[Music]
1:07:33at the at the end of
1:07:35everything once we've you had to have
1:07:38known that this was going to come at
1:07:39some point. I was talking to my
1:07:44What's up? This is all my fault. I was
1:07:47talking to many guys. Well, we know such
1:07:50a stupid thing to do. Yeah, but then how
1:07:55did we get to Costa Rica or sorry, Costa
1:07:57Mesa, wherever I was? How do we get to
1:08:00LA? There's a big jump in a leap from
1:08:03talking to men to getting in a car with
1:08:07somebody. But that getting into a car
1:08:09with somebody is somebody you had a
1:08:11relationship with.
1:08:13He told us about the abortion. He told
1:08:15us about the your guys's
1:08:18relationship. He told us about things
1:08:20that I don't know if you've ever told
1:08:21anybody
1:08:23about. He told us so many
1:08:26things and he did it all for you. Nobody
1:08:30else. He got nothing out of this. And
1:08:32you're welcome to go home, Sharon, but
1:08:34right now is your opportunity to tell us
1:08:36the truth. And
1:08:40can't be.
1:08:46Are you saying that it was two females
1:08:48that picked you up?
1:08:51What's that?
1:08:55Every time I ask that question, it seems
1:08:57like you don't answer.
1:08:59This can't be.
1:09:02We sat in a room. You drew out two
1:09:04people in a sketch. Sherry, wait. Were
1:09:06those two people the ones that took you?
1:09:08That's a yes or no? I don't know. Well,
1:09:11you were pretty clear when I asked you
1:09:13earlier. What did What did the younger
1:09:14one do? You said the younger one pointed
1:09:16a gun at you. She was.
1:09:23She wasn't. It was just James.
1:09:26James was 2 hours late. We have the
1:09:28rental records from 2016 for the vehicle
1:09:31that he used. Why? Because we went
1:09:36looked for it cuz he told me because I
1:09:37was talking to him. Wait, that's clearly
1:09:40you talking to him. I don't This is my
1:09:42fault because I'm talking to him. We
1:09:45just can't. We have to control what we
1:09:47can control. No,
1:09:51we're we're to the point. Did two Did
1:09:54the younger female that you've always
1:09:55described, is she the one that put a
1:09:57pointed gun at you? Is that true or not?
1:10:01I don't know. You You do know. You told
1:10:04me earlier. So earlier today when we
1:10:07were talking, I asked you what did the
1:10:08younger one do? You told me the younger
1:10:11one pointed a gun at you and let you go.
1:10:14That's what you said. She let me go.
1:10:17Yeah. You let yourself go. You let
1:10:20yourself out of the back seat. Never
1:10:22even said bye to James. Never a thank
1:10:24you. Never nothing. Just now. No. Yeah.
1:10:27That's what James told me. until you can
1:10:29start telling me that James is a liar
1:10:31and start pointing things out. James
1:10:34passed a polygraph. This is my
1:10:36fault. This is my fault that I was
1:10:38talking to him. This is my fault that I
1:10:40was flirting with other men. It was such
1:10:42a stupid thing to do. I love my husband.
1:10:47I love my children. That's
1:10:49understandable. Stupid. Here's the deal
1:10:51though, Sher. Flirting with other men,
1:10:54not a crime.
1:10:57Lying to me today, yes, a crime.
1:11:01Big difference. Telling your story of
1:11:03what happened to you isn't a crime. And
1:11:06I know you're scared of what Keith is
1:11:07going to say and do, what's going to
1:11:08happen with you and your family. Those
1:11:10are real
1:11:11concerns, but we also need to understand
1:11:14the
1:11:16truth. And you're in the best position
1:11:19to give us that. You keep saying that it
1:11:22can't be him. The DNA doesn't lie. It's
1:11:24him. You were talking and now's the
1:11:26opportunity for you to tell us. Talking
1:11:27to him. I was talking to him. I was
1:11:30talking to him and we talked. I started
1:11:32talking again. His brother died.
1:11:36Okay. He started talking. What? When her
1:11:38brother died. Oh, sure. And that makes
1:11:40sense. The problem we have is the
1:11:44actions after the talking, after the
1:11:47flirting. There was a big difference
1:11:49between talking on the phone and getting
1:11:50in a car with somebody. So, are are you
1:11:53saying that James got two females to to
1:11:56kidnap you? Is that what you're trying
1:11:58to say? I don't know. What do you mean
1:12:02you don't know? So, if James' DNA is on
1:12:05you, we don't know. Are you So, either
1:12:08either we're still saying the younger
1:12:10girl pointed a gun at you or we're
1:12:12saying we don't know. You've already
1:12:14told me that today that a younger girl
1:12:16pointed a gun at you. You said you
1:12:17didn't want her to get caught. So, are
1:12:19we still talking that the female let you
1:12:21go?
1:12:26That's where we're
1:12:27at. And and I don't know doesn't add
1:12:31clarity on simple questions.
1:12:34Sherry, but very a very easy
1:12:39question. Did James pick you
1:12:42up. You told me earlier that a girl
1:12:45pointed a gun at you. Is that is that
1:12:47detail? Which one's true? It's only one.
1:12:50Only one of those are true,
1:12:53Sherry. You've told both of them. I've
1:12:55told one, you've told the other. Which
1:12:58one's
1:13:05true? Does James need to go to jail for
1:13:07all this
1:13:08stuff that you asked him to do?
1:13:17did not ask for this. No, nobody asked
1:13:20for this. I Sherry, I believe you.
1:13:25Nobody asked for this. So stupid. Nobody
1:13:27asked for ABC News to park out in your
1:13:29driveway. There was no way you could
1:13:31have predicted that this was going to
1:13:32blow up and to be as big as it
1:13:35was. Not even Kyle thought it was going
1:13:37to turn into this big. Even when he
1:13:38first got the call, he didn't think that
1:13:40CNN and ABC and everybody was going to
1:13:42care. I'm going to find Chair in a
1:13:44couple days cuz I I found Donovan. Found
1:13:46I found the people you're some of the
1:13:48people you're talking to. I've never
1:13:50known about your work cell phone.
1:13:52Stupid.
1:13:53But but we're beyond we're beyond that
1:13:56small discretion. Stupid. We've talked
1:13:58about that discretion. No, we've talked
1:14:00about
1:14:01Donovan, right? Remember? So stupid.
1:14:05We talked about Do so stupid.
1:14:09Who picked you up? Was it James or was
1:14:11it a female that pointed a gun at you?
1:14:13Can you please answer that?
1:14:17You're shaking your head now. I will not
1:14:19get I not I'm not I'm not talking to you
1:14:22about that. I'm I'm not going to get
1:14:24anybody in trouble. I've told you before
1:14:26I do not want anyone to get in trouble.
1:14:29Well, you're going to get yourself in
1:14:30trouble at this point. That's where
1:14:31we're at. So, either either James I
1:14:34didn't do anything wrong. I know you
1:14:35didn't do anything wrong right now.
1:14:37You're not telling the truth, which is
1:14:38doing something wrong. That's where
1:14:40we're at. James put himself on a
1:14:43polygraph. talked to FBI agents. He
1:14:46talked with Peter and I for six hours.
1:14:50He told us everything,
1:14:52Sherry, you told us so many truths
1:14:56because you put yourself through true.
1:14:59They were true. You're absolutely You
1:15:01don't want to talk about the women.
1:15:03So, but the the one you're saying that
1:15:07it's James? We're saying James's DNA was
1:15:10on you. We know you were you were in
1:15:13that room at his house. Then the woman
1:15:17if it wasn't the woman. Well, that's why
1:15:20we're asking you. It was the woman put
1:15:22pointed a gun at you and put you in the
1:15:23car. Yes or no? Is that where we're at?
1:15:29Don't remember. You don't remember if a
1:15:32female pointed a gun at you and put you
1:15:33in the car? Is that what you're saying,
1:15:35Sher? I've always told you I don't
1:15:37remember getting in the car. I've always
1:15:39told you I don't remember getting in the
1:15:41car. But did a female point a gun at
1:15:43you? Yes or no?
1:15:49Remember? Yes or
1:15:51no? So, I don't remember thing. You've
1:15:54already told me that today. You know who
1:15:56she is. I know you do. It was always
1:15:59know who she is. The lady we showed you
1:16:02is another race.
1:16:05No, I know James opened the door for
1:16:07you. Whether you want to forget how you
1:16:10got in the car. I'm I'm okay with that.
1:16:12But we've already you've already
1:16:14established today. That's why I asked
1:16:16you today. What did the younger girl do?
1:16:20You said she let me go and she pointed a
1:16:22gun at me. We didn't talk about how you
1:16:24got in the car. Right now, I'm asking
1:16:25you, did a younger female point a gun at
1:16:28you? Yes or no?
1:16:33What?
1:16:38I know you know who she is. I am not I
1:16:41don't want her to get in trouble. I know
1:16:44you know who she is. You're getting in
1:16:46trouble. I am not. I didn't do anything.
1:16:50But right now, ask answer this one
1:16:52question. Did a female point a gun at
1:16:54you? Yes or no? I am done speaking to
1:16:56you until I talk to a lawyer. I will not
1:16:59arrest her. I am with my children
1:17:02because of her.
1:17:05Disappoint. I don't
1:17:09understand. There is no way that Jay
1:17:12loved me. He did love me. I agree.
1:17:17Sher, if you want to talk to your
1:17:18attorney, that's fine. We can wrap this
1:17:20up. If you want to keep talking to us,
1:17:22that's a separate story. But you said
1:17:23you wanted to talk to your attorney. So,
1:17:26I from the beginning, you're free to go
1:17:27and you can go. I would ask you one more
1:17:31question just for your own welfare. Do
1:17:33you feel like harming yourself? For
1:17:35welfare? Do you feel like harming
1:17:38yourself? No, I just want to hug my
1:17:41children and go home. Okay. Well, you're
1:17:45free to go and do
1:17:51that. If you change your mind, do you
1:17:53want to come forward and talk to us?
1:17:55This is all my fault because I talk to
1:17:58other men. This cannot
1:18:08be coming.
1:18:18Where is my I don't know where to find
1:18:21out.
1:18:26You know what key is?
1:18:37Okay.
1:18:52Can I
1:19:08keep watch?
1:19:26All right. I'm an idiot husband that
1:19:29stayed around the whole time. There's
1:19:31not It's still We can't tell you a lot.
1:19:35Honestly, I don't know what I told K to
1:19:37let you know some of the details, some
1:19:39of the stuff going out. Can we I mean
1:19:41from my side I feel like you know my
1:19:43whole world's going to flip upside down
1:19:44again. Why why is that why I'm always
1:19:46getting held out of things? Like why
1:19:48can't you just hit me with it? I did my
1:19:51I know. Yeah, cuz this happened Monday.
1:19:54No, you're saying you can't tell me all
1:19:56this stuff. It's still an ongoing
1:19:58investigation. So you're not going to
1:20:00find out answers? I mean there's that's
1:20:03the way. Can you help me throw me a bone
1:20:06and then go mean she made it up. Is that
1:20:07where we're going? Right. or is she
1:20:09trying to come over the whole We're not
1:20:10gonna give you any additional details.
1:20:12Obviously, you heard the questions so
1:20:13you can Yeah. read through some of those
1:20:15and understand. You've seen some of the
1:20:17photos. Yeah. So, you know, some of the
1:20:19investig Yeah, we found him. We did.
1:20:22Yeah. But you can also notice your
1:20:24reaction compared to her reaction. Yeah.
1:20:26No, 100%. That's what I'm saying from my
1:20:28side. But now, now you're telling me,
1:20:29"Okay, you guys can go home now." Well,
1:20:31do you think I want her anywhere around
1:20:32my kids or around me at all at this
1:20:34point? And again, we we've talked a lot.
1:20:37I don't know what the next stages of
1:20:38this are. That's why it's not together
1:20:40that much. Whatever whatever those
1:20:42decisions are, I I don't know. But from
1:20:44a we can all agree that she's not all
1:20:48there then. Obviously, if somebody can
1:20:49do something like that to her body and
1:20:51try to trick everybody that they're
1:20:52probably not fit to it was four years
1:20:54ago. We can't get into that. But I would
1:20:57say obviously we are concerned about the
1:20:59welfare. We don't want any kind of
1:21:01domestic dispute between you two. We
1:21:03also don't want So give me a quick legal
1:21:05not legal advice. ask me from a sheriff.
1:21:08If I don't want her in my house tonight,
1:21:10what options do I have? You have to get
1:21:13her screen orders. You have to get legal
1:21:16stuff.
1:21:18Jesus. I'm not going I'm going to tell
1:21:20her she has to go to her sisters or
1:21:22something. I mean, she's not going to my
1:21:23house tonight. And I got to call the
1:21:25next stage of this. Please give me the
1:21:28courtesy of telling me when you're going
1:21:29to announce this so I cannot be at my
1:21:31home.
1:21:33Oh, god damn. You're going quick. Well,
1:21:35I thought you said it's ongoing now.
1:21:36Well, we have to we're going to talk
1:21:38about that, but it's going to happen
1:21:40quick. I understand. He was thinking
1:21:42tomorrow. I was like, "Okay, blew up
1:21:43everybody in LA." So, there's a there's
1:21:45a hornets nest in LA. It only takes one
1:21:48person to go and that say, "Hey, I know
1:21:49what actually happened. I want 10 grand
1:21:52and now they run to LA." Yeah. It blows
1:21:55up without our control. So, and I don't
1:21:58know the strategy. We we still have to
1:22:00have We had to get through this before
1:22:02we can get there. But this Did is there
1:22:05anything you could tell me that? Cuz I
1:22:06thought you said you were going to tell
1:22:07me something when I came back in.
1:22:10The the person that we talked to down
1:22:12there is absolutely involved. No, I know
1:22:15that. I know that. I remember giving you
1:22:17guys that guy's number. So I thought I
1:22:19thought So that's that's where we're at.
1:22:23And then what does she say? We're just
1:22:26going to ask you to be patient. Let it
1:22:27play out. I know it's gonna be really
1:22:28hard, but it also makes it easier for
1:22:30you kids though. Well, the little kids
1:22:32aren't going to ask you as much as the
1:22:33media will and family members, your own
1:22:35family members. And you can look at them
1:22:36with a straight face and say, "Look,
1:22:38they're not telling me yet." But like
1:22:40even right now, I was like, "Well, she
1:22:42you guys can give her a ride in the
1:22:43house. I don't even want her in my car
1:22:44right now." I don't know what that's
1:22:46what he told me.
1:22:48I have a good range for her to get there
1:22:50if that's what has to happen cuz I need
1:22:52I need to make some phone. If I mean, if
1:22:53you're going to release it that soon,
1:22:54I'd like to call. I don't know what's
1:22:56going to happen. I can call you today.
1:22:58I'm I'm going to go from this to another
1:22:59meeting and that meeting to another
1:23:01meeting and that meeting to another
1:23:03meeting and then then we'll be figuring
1:23:05stuff out. Are you saying you want us to
1:23:07help you with transport for her to get
1:23:09back? I think so. I don't think I mean I
1:23:10you got to give me a couple I thought
1:23:12you guys were going to call me back in
1:23:12here with her. Well, she has to leave so
1:23:15she's really So I think we'll talk and
1:23:19I'm going to we'll probably she's
1:23:22probably not going to talk in here. will
1:23:23probably go out to the car and then I'll
1:23:24be like I'm not going anywhere with you
1:23:25too long. If you guys want to check out
1:23:27the car and then come back up and tell
1:23:28us if you need assistance, let us know.
1:23:31I'd appreciate that.
1:23:34I think I'm hand pretty good. A punching
1:23:35walls or nothing. We appreciate that.
1:23:38I'm in the
1:23:40shop.
1:23:41Okay. All right. Thank you.

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