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She Was Kidnapped at 14 While Her Family Slept - Elizabeth Smart — Transcript

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0:00Your house is beautiful. Thank you.
0:02Thank you for having me here. Thank you
0:04for being willing to come.
0:06And so
0:08normally I don't know a whole lot about
0:11person's story because
0:13I like to react
0:15to
0:16the story with a real honest reaction
0:18and not that I wouldn't do that in your
0:19case at all, but I think it's pretty
0:22hard not to know your story.
0:23But I want you to have the opportunity
0:25to have
0:26your story told how you want to share
0:28your story
0:30and I know you get asked a lot of
0:31questions and you've been interviewed a
0:33hundreds and hundreds of times, probably
0:35thousands of times and so I want you to
0:37just to be able to share What
0:41do you want to share your story like?
0:43Tell me
0:44just start at the beginning.
0:46Okay.
0:49I mean I I guess starting at the
0:50beginning would kind of just be like I
0:53led I mean I'd say a pretty privileged
0:56life. I mean I grew up in a nice
0:58neighborhood, grew up in a nice home,
1:00had a nice family. I got to say we were
1:03very close. It was almost like I lived
1:05in a bubble. I could see things on the
1:07news, but it felt like
1:09It really felt like it was a different
1:10world like it could never touch my world
1:13and I mean I grew up playing like night
1:16games. We lived in a cul-de-sac and like
1:18we had there were neighbor kids and at
1:21night time we'd play like kick the can
1:23during the summer or hide and go seek
1:25and it just felt like it was really kind
1:28of an ideal childhood. And um
1:33I really couldn't imagine my life
1:37changing in any kind of drastic way. It
1:39felt like it was a very safe life and I
1:42wasn't a rebellious kid. Like I don't
1:45think I really ever pushed the limits.
1:47Like I was a pretty
1:49I don't know, vanilla kid I guess
1:52and um That's a good word.
1:55>> [clears throat]
1:55>> Yeah, I mean I was.
1:57Like I just I wasn't
2:00I wasn't rebellious. I wasn't a wild
2:02child. I
2:03pretty much did what I was supposed to
2:05do
2:06and um
2:09Yeah, I just I just never imagined
2:11anything bad could happen to me
2:13and
2:16It was you know, the night before my
2:18junior high graduation. Really? Yeah.
2:22And
2:24we all went to bed like normal that
2:26night. Like there was nothing wrong with
2:29that day. It was a good day. Like I had
2:31like
2:31my dress that I specifically picked out
2:32to wear and I
2:38mean my friends and I we were all like
2:40trying to make our summer plans
2:42together. We're talking about what
2:44classes we'd take in high school, like
2:46what clubs we wanted to try to join or
2:48become a part of. I mean I'd say it was
2:51a really exciting time actually.
2:53And yeah, just didn't have a clue that
2:57anything bad
2:58could ever happen or was going to
3:00happen. There was I mean some people
3:02talk about how they had like feelings of
3:04foreboding. I never had that. There were
3:06no premonitions of anything bad. It was
3:08good. Life seemed really good.
3:11And then went to bed that night just
3:13like I would any other night. I shared a
3:16bedroom. I shared a bed with my little
3:17sister
3:19and the next thing I remember was waking
3:22up to a man holding a knife to my neck
3:24saying Don't make a sound. I have a
3:27knife at your neck. Get up and come with
3:28me and that really was the beginning
3:32of
3:32>> you were dreaming?
3:33At first yeah, I didn't respond the
3:35first time he said it because
3:37there was no way a man could be in my
3:39bedroom. There was no way I could have a
3:41knife being held to my neck. Those kinds
3:43of things didn't happen to me. Couldn't
3:47happen to me and so I didn't immediately
3:49respond. It wasn't until he said it a
3:52second time that I actually opened my
3:55eyes and saw this stranger standing in
3:57my room, feeling a knife pressed against
3:59my neck and that's yeah, that's when I
4:02realized it was real. It wasn't a dream.
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5:00Oh my gosh.
5:03So you're in your room
5:05and your sister is she how does she wake
5:08up because you're getting out of the
5:09bed? Does she wake up because she hears
5:11his voice? So
5:13at the time I thought she was asleep. I
5:16didn't think she was awake. I mean her
5:18eyes were closed. I could hear just
5:19steady breathing
5:21and
5:23I didn't know what he would have done if
5:26I had screamed or done anything
5:29different. I mean I felt like I was
5:31supposed to be the responsible one that
5:33protected my sister from anything
5:35happening. And so I
5:39I did what what I was told to do. I mean
5:41again, I feel like you're taught so much
5:44safety education as a kid like look both
5:47ways before crossing street. There's
5:49fire drills. Everyone knows what you're
5:51supposed to do if you catch on fire,
5:53stop, drop and roll. All this safety
5:56education that I'd been given didn't
5:57cover anything like this.
5:59>> Yeah, right. So I mean I I just felt
6:01like I had to do what I was being told
6:04and I remember he
6:06he specifically pointed out what shoes
6:08he wanted me to take and then he led me
6:11out through my house and we went out the
6:13back door. So wait, he
6:16How did he he must have been in there?
6:18How did he know what shoes you were
6:20supposed to take? He must have stood
6:21there for a while.
6:21>> my I had a I had a walking closet and
6:26um
6:28like I had initially reached I mean my
6:30shoes were just all
6:32laid out on the floor.
6:34>> Okay. And I reached for my slippers
6:36initially. He's like no, not those and
6:37he pointed to like my my sneakers.
6:41Yeah. Oh my gosh.
6:44Yeah and then we just
6:47went down through my house cuz my
6:48bedroom was on the top floor. I mean it
6:51was
6:52probably one of the highest points of
6:53our house. So we had to walk through the
6:55middle of the house, down the stairs and
6:57then he took me out the back kitchen
6:59door. So everybody must have slept with
7:01doors closed in the house. Is that
7:02right?
7:02>> No. Wow. No, all the doors were open. I
7:06mean I used to think that was
7:08that was
7:10I don't know, safer to have doors open.
7:13Now as now as a parent I'm like the
7:15doors are shut. I will hear them if they
7:17open them up. Wow. Um
7:20Yeah.
7:22So now all of our doors are shut.
7:24>> Wow. Oh my gosh. Okay, so you're going
7:26through your house and
7:28What happens next? Uh yeah, I mean he
7:31led me out through my back door and my
7:33backyard it wasn't fenced. I mean we
7:35lived up on one of the mountainsides
7:38overlooking the Salt Lake Valley and a
7:40lot of our neighbors' backyards weren't
7:42fenced. They were just kind of open and
7:43ran together and he led me up through
7:47there was a vacant lot that was
7:49kitty-corner to the back of our our
7:51house. He led me up through that lot
7:53where there's one more street in the
7:55neighborhood and then it's just
7:57mountains after that and we go up to the
8:00street. There was a row of bushes and he
8:04held me down behind the bushes
8:07and then there were headlights coming
8:10towards us which I immediately thought,
8:12oh my gosh, this is the getaway car. He
8:14has this all planned out. I'm I'm going
8:17to be put in the back of this car. My
8:19parents are eventually going to wake up.
8:21They're going to realize that I'm gone.
8:23They're going to call the police. The
8:24police will bring dogs in. The dogs will
8:26track me up to this point and then
8:29they'll never find me because I was put
8:30in a car. Um but this car it didn't I
8:34mean it was moving slowly, but it didn't
8:35slow down any further and it crossed
8:38right in front of me and it was actually
8:40a police car. Oh my gosh. I know.
8:44And I mean in that moment when it was in
8:46front of me, I remember just thinking,
8:47wow, like the police, they just know
8:50everything. Like they're already on my
8:52case. They are they know I've been taken
8:56out of my house, but of course the
8:58police officer didn't know.
9:00>> Were you crouched down like hiding
9:02behind a bush kind of a thing?
9:03>> yeah, he was holding me down on the
9:05ground. Like he had his knife on me
9:07holding me down behind behind
9:09like a hedge.
9:11And as soon as the police car was around
9:14the corner from where we were at, I mean
9:16he had me up and running across the
9:17street and headed up into the mountains
9:19just about as quick as he could have
9:21both of us move together while still
9:23holding a knife on me.
9:25Did you sense What did you sense his
9:27emotions were during that time? Was he
9:29nervous? Was he frantic?
9:31>> I mean as the car was getting closer to
9:34us, well, more like crossing in front of
9:37us, I remember hearing him kind of
9:40mumble
9:41like God, if this work is true, let this
9:43car pass.
9:45Oh man.
9:45>> And of course the car did pass.
9:48And I remember just thinking
9:51What?
9:53I must have misheard that. That like
9:55that can't
9:56I I can't have heard that right.
10:00Um
10:02and then
10:04Yeah, and then at that point we were
10:06headed up into the mountains. So I mean
10:07he
10:09I mean he sounded
10:11anxious
10:13but it also felt like he knew what he
10:16was doing.
10:18I mean it felt like he had a plan and he
10:20was following through with his plan.
10:23So he believed what he muttered.
10:27I mean at that point like I didn't know
10:30if he was just
10:31I mean it sounded strange. It sounded
10:34abnormal. It didn't sound normal but at
10:37the same time I didn't know if
10:40like
10:42>> [sighs]
10:43>> I didn't know if that was just
10:45something he was like casually saying.
10:47>> Yeah, yeah. Um
10:51Yeah, so at that point in time I
10:54really didn't know what to think.
10:57Um but as he
10:59was having me run up into the mountains,
11:01I mean I remember I tried to stop him a
11:03few times. I tried to talk to him a few
11:05times. Um
11:08I remember like one of the first times
11:11talking to him just saying, you know, if
11:13you're going to up and kill me, could
11:14you please do it here? Because it was
11:16important to me that my parents knew
11:18what had happened to me. Wow. Like I I
11:21didn't want them to think that I ran
11:22away. Not that Not that I actually think
11:25they would have thought that of me.
11:27I'm amazed you had that frame of mind to
11:29think that at 14. But yeah.
11:33Um
11:34I feel like on the news on the news like
11:38a couple days before the National Center
11:41for Missing and Exploited Children had
11:43come on and just asked people to leave
11:45their front porch lights on all night
11:48um so that any missing child like it was
11:52like a sign to the missing children to
11:54come home. Like it was in honor of that.
11:57And I had remember seeing that on the
11:58news and so I'd remembered asking my
12:00parents if we could leave the lights on
12:01that night on our front porch. And then
12:04I remember there was another news story
12:07around the time where there was a young
12:09girl and I think it was like the friend
12:11of the dad maybe or it was someone who
12:14had tried to kidnap her and he was like
12:17I want to say he was like hitting her
12:19with a hammer or like maybe like I want
12:22to say he was smashing her face in but
12:23she escaped. I can't remember. I
12:26remember there was a news story
12:28that was
12:29quite brutal but she did live. She got
12:32She got away. And so I like I I knew
12:35that kidnappings happened. I knew that
12:38like I knew that bad things happened. I
12:41just never thought it could happen to
12:42me. So are you saying that you asked
12:44your parents to turn the lights on that
12:45night that he came
12:46>> Not the night that I was kidnapped.
12:48>> that time.
12:49>> But it was a couple nights before, yeah.
12:51Oh man. Yeah.
12:53I mean I wouldn't say I was like an avid
12:55news watcher cuz saying this I feel like
12:58I'm hearing myself talk about multiple
13:00stories on the news.
13:02But you know, when I'd go in to say
13:03goodnight to my parents they'd have the
13:05news on so I'd sit and watch it with
13:07them for a few minutes.
13:09So the the the
13:11um
13:12the trail if there is a trail back to
13:14where he's taking you, it's pretty far,
13:15right?
13:16>> [snorts]
13:16>> Yeah, I mean initially there was like a
13:19very
13:20popular trail that we started on but
13:23then at at a certain point he did turn
13:25off the trail
13:26and
13:27um we started just heading straight back
13:30into the mountains where there was no
13:31trail. I mean I remember like the brush
13:34being so thick having to get down on my
13:36hands and knees and just crawl. Oh wow.
13:39And
13:40um
13:41I remember just asking him like why was
13:43he doing this? Did he realize what he
13:45was doing that if he got caught he'd
13:47spend the rest of his life in prison. I
13:50remember telling him that if he let me
13:52go my family wouldn't press charges.
13:54Just please please please let me go. And
13:57I remember at that point he just kind of
13:58smiled and looked at me and he was like,
14:00I know what the consequences are. I know
14:02what I'm doing. The only difference is
14:04I'm not going to get caught. And like I
14:08just I just didn't know if that meant
14:09that I was going to be
14:12>> [snorts]
14:12>> I didn't know if that meant that he was
14:15going to just keep me. I mean I do
14:17remember at one point him saying he was
14:18going to
14:20keep me as a hostage.
14:22And
14:23um
14:24I remember
14:27just
14:28I mean he said he said
14:31lots of things. Things like yeah, he's
14:33keeping me hostage that all my that all
14:36my questions would be answered when we
14:38got to where we were going. Um I asked
14:41where we were going and he just repeat
14:44kind of the same thing.
14:46Uh I remember I mean cuz I I grew up
14:50going to church every Sunday and there's
14:54all the stories of miracles like Noah in
14:57the ark, Daniel in the lion's den, David
15:00and Goliath. I mean all these stories of
15:03just like extreme miracles and I
15:05remember just thinking as I was being
15:08brought up into the mountains like if
15:10you could part the Red Sea for Moses
15:13like can you give me a trail? Can you
15:16part I don't know.
15:17>> Yeah, right. Part the mountains, part
15:19the brush, give me an escape. I remember
15:21being so worried that maybe I'd had a
15:24chance for escape and I hadn't taken it
15:26or I wasn't brave enough to take it. Now
15:29looking back there there was not that
15:31chance like Sure.
15:34I I mean the mountains were very steep.
15:37I could not have moved up them quickly.
15:39He was right there with me. There was
15:41just no way I was going to get away but
15:42at the time I remember just thinking,
15:44was that a chance? Was that a chance?
15:46Did I miss my chance? Like what's going
15:48to happen? What's going to happen next?
15:50Um I was probably kidnapped around
15:55I mean probably two or three in the
15:57morning. And
16:00uh
16:01I mean time
16:03like I knew time was passing but the
16:06same time seemed to be moving in slow
16:09motion. But then I remember at one point
16:12the sun was coming up and at
16:14at that point we were crossing over the
16:16top of the mountain and he was in a rush
16:19to get me down the other side because my
16:22pajamas were bright red and
16:25um he didn't want like any early morning
16:27hiker or runner biker to see my red
16:31pajamas. And so he was definitely in a
16:34rush to get down the other side.
16:37Um as we started down the other side
16:40I I mean we came to a stand of trees
16:43which you know, normal.
16:46Nothing that I could see stood out about
16:48it but he somehow knew this stand of
16:52trees and I remember he yelled out a
16:54name. I remember he yelled out Hephzibah
16:57which
16:58it's not a common name.
17:00>> No, I would say no. Yeah. And
17:02uh I remember a voice yelled back
17:04Immanuel.
17:06And he directed me into the stand of
17:09trees where
17:11part of the mountainside had been
17:13leveled out. There was a woman
17:16um
17:17dressed really unlike anyone I'd ever
17:19seen before.
17:21There was a tent set up. There were
17:23tarps lying on the ground. There were
17:24tarps hanging up in the trees.
17:26>> Okay. Wow. Like there was a whole hidden
17:29campsite that took a lot of work to
17:32build. It wasn't just haphazard. It was
17:36thought out.
17:36>> How long do you think he'd been up
17:37there?
17:39Um at that point I had no idea.
17:42But I mean certainly as more time passed
17:45I mean he'd spent he'd spent a lot of
17:47time up there. Not necessarily in that
17:49exact spot but at some point in time
17:52they had a teepee and they'd built the
17:54teepee up this particular canyon and
17:57then they'd move the teepee to another
17:59place up this canyon and they'd lived up
18:01there. I mean not through a winter but
18:04summers. I mean they'd spent a fair
18:06amount of time up this up this canyon.
18:11So
18:12what is your
18:15When you're getting to this camp are you
18:17thinking in your mind there's nobody
18:19else that's going to be there? This is
18:20where I'm going to die.
18:22Um he had said that his wife was waiting
18:24for us.
18:25>> Okay. Okay. So I knew that there was
18:27someone else
18:29that would be there but I
18:33I just couldn't imagine why anyone would
18:36want to kidnap me.
18:38I just like again
18:40I didn't think my family had any
18:42enemies.
18:43Like I I had never as far as I knew
18:47really offended anyone before.
18:50Um
18:51like I was I was a good girl. Like why
18:55was this happening to me? I just
18:57couldn't understand it.
19:00So what happens next?
19:02Uh so this woman Hephzibah
19:06uh
19:06she
19:08the first thing she does was she just
19:10opened her arms and hugged me.
19:12>> Oh gross. Yeah. And I remember like when
19:17I saw the woman honestly I felt relief.
19:20Because I thought if there was a woman
19:22there then nothing that bad could happen
19:24to me. Like no woman would just step
19:26aside and let another girl be abused. So
19:32I felt relief initially and then like
19:34when she hugged me like I had little
19:36warning bells going off cuz it didn't
19:38really feel like a comforting hug. Kind
19:40of felt like a hug of like aggression or
19:42dominance.
19:43>> Oh wow.
19:44And I remember she led me inside of the
19:47tent. She sat me down on an upturned
19:50bucket. Uh she'd brought in like this
19:52little small blue basin, had filled it
19:55with water, was starting to try to
19:57sponge bathe me. I was
20:00shy, awkward, self-conscious. I mean,
20:03again, like
20:05does anyone go through junior high
20:06gracefully? Does anyone go through
20:08puberty gracefully?
20:09>> right, right, right, right, right,
20:10right, right, right, right, right. No, I
20:11don't think so. At least I didn't. So, I
20:14was just very self-conscious and um
20:17I remember begging and pleading with her
20:19just to
20:21>> [sighs]
20:22>> leave me alone. If I had a change, I
20:24could change myself. She didn't need to
20:26touch me. She did eventually hand me
20:29like this sort of
20:31robe, tunic kind of thing and
20:35um
20:36I pulled it over my head. I took my
20:38pajamas off underneath. She scooped them
20:41all up and she walked out of the tent.
20:43And I just I mean, I really
20:46I really didn't know
20:49what was going on or like why this was
20:52happening to me. I mean, this just
20:53seemed so bizarre.
20:55>> Yeah. Yeah, just
20:57like
20:58this was not how kidnappings went or any
21:01kidnapping I'd ever heard of, which
21:03granted was not a lot, but
21:06I just
21:07like the ideas of kidnapping in my mind
21:10were like
21:11someone telling you to go look for a
21:13lost puppy or to see the puppies in
21:16their van. It was like the man in the
21:18creeper van or be like that's the candy.
21:21>> And then them grabbing you and like
21:24taking you to a dark basement and
21:26chaining you up till they got what they
21:28wanted. Like that was how kidnapping
21:30went in my mind. So, being brought up
21:33into the mountains, being forced to
21:35change, like
21:37none of this was what I imagined a
21:39kidnapping to be like.
21:41And uh
21:43>> [sighs]
21:43>> um
21:45then this man, he changed out of the
21:49like the sweatpants and sweatshirt that
21:51he
21:52initially had on
21:54and
21:56uh he changed into a robe, just like the
21:58one that I was forced to put on.
22:01And he came in and he knelt down next to
22:03me and that's when he told me that I was
22:05now his wife.
22:06And uh of course, I was not expecting
22:09that. I remember just yelling out, "No."
22:12Because
22:13you know
22:14who who expects like some gross old man
22:17to all of a sudden say "Oh, you're my
22:20wife now." Especially when you're only
22:2214 years old.
22:24And uh
22:27I when I when I screamed out, "No." He
22:29just looked at me. He was like, "If you
22:30ever scream out like that again, I'll
22:32you." Oh my gosh.
22:34>> Like if it'll help you not scream out, I
22:35can duct tape your mouth shut. Of
22:36course, I didn't want to be
22:38didn't want my mouth duct taped shut.
22:40So, I told him I wouldn't scream, but I
22:41actually tried to reason with him why
22:44this wasn't okay, why this wasn't legal,
22:46why he couldn't do this. And he really
22:49had the same response to every reason I
22:52gave him, which was "Oh, it's now time
22:54to consummate our marriage."
22:57Which
22:58like I'd never heard that before. I'd
22:59never heard that phrase. I didn't know
23:01what it meant.
23:01>> right, right, right, right, right, yeah.
23:0214, gosh.
23:03>> Yeah. I mean, I barely knew what sex
23:05was.
23:06>> Right. And that still sounded disgusting
23:08and gross to me.
23:09>> right, right, right, right. Um
23:11but you know, I eventually figured out
23:13what he meant and I remember just
23:15thinking if I can just hold him off if I
23:17can hold him off just long enough,
23:18someone will rescue me. I just have to
23:21hold him off. So, I remember even
23:22getting to the point of desperation
23:24where I said things like "Shouldn't we
23:26at least get to know each other before
23:28this happens? Like
23:30shouldn't we like I don't I don't even
23:33really know I don't know who you are.
23:35Like I don't know your name like
23:38Okay, like I knew he was called
23:40Emmanuel, but I didn't know any more
23:42than that. Did you know that you had
23:44that fight in you? Like with that
23:46personality, was that there before? I
23:48mean
23:48>> so surprising to me. Somebody 14 years
23:50old that's able to sort of summon that
23:52fight. Like
23:53>> it like that moment you're in, you're
23:54just like that desperation, that fight
23:56or flight? I mean
23:58I So, I grew up with four brothers and I
24:02remember they'd always get to go off to
24:04like scout camp and they'd get to like I
24:08don't know, build their igloos and sleep
24:10in it or like go river rafting or
24:13it just always sounded so fun, whatever
24:16they got to do. And I felt like, you
24:18know, I got stuck with like the girls
24:20group learning how to sew on a button
24:22and I was like, "This is stupid. I don't
24:24want to do this." And so, anytime I felt
24:27like there was an opportunity to prove
24:29that I was as tough as they were, I took
24:31it. Like growing up, my parents had a
24:34cabin and um it wasn't connected to like
24:37public water. There was a stream below
24:40it and the stream there was a pump and
24:42the pump would pump water up from the
24:44stream and it would be put in like this
24:46holding cell holding tank.
24:48>> Yeah. And then it would be pumped into
24:50the cabin. Uh we could not drink that
24:53water.
24:53>> Well, don't do that. Bad idea.
24:55>> But you know,
24:57flush toilets, that was fine.
24:59>> And um
25:00I I mean, I remember once one early
25:03summer, my dad was like, "Kate, we need
25:05to go down. We need to clean this tank
25:06out." And he was like to my older
25:09brother, he's like, "Come on, I'll lower
25:11you down in there and I just need you to
25:13keep on like
25:13>> Oh, wow.
25:14>> I need you to scoop up the water in the
25:16bucket and I will pull the bucket up and
25:18I'll dump it out." And my older brother
25:21was like, "I'm not going down there."
25:22And I remember that moment being like,
25:23"I'll go down there." Cuz [laughter] I
25:25just felt like I had to prove that I was
25:27as tough as the boys.
25:27>> There it is. Yeah, there it is.
25:29>> So
25:30like
25:32I guess I
25:34I was a good girl, but I also like had
25:37that spunk?
25:38>> Had Yeah, had a stubborn streak maybe to
25:41me.
25:42>> And I also think I just recognized that
25:46like I was in a very dangerous situation
25:49and
25:51I remember like having the thought
25:52process that
25:55I needed to get these people to like me.
25:57Because if they liked me, then they
26:00might not be as likely to me.
26:03And so
26:04um
26:05I I mean, I remember vividly having that
26:08thought process.
26:10But yeah, I just like I remember just
26:13trying to do everything I could to
26:15convince him to
26:17not me or at least wait a little bit.
26:20Because if I could get him to wait a
26:21little bit, like I really believed I was
26:24going to be rescued quickly.
26:26Like I didn't think this could go on.
26:27Like in my mind, I could just be like,
26:29"This time next week, I'm going to be
26:31sitting on the sofa in my living room."
26:33Like I can see the pattern on the rug in
26:35my mind's eye. Like I can see exactly
26:38what like the coffee table looks like. I
26:40can see my mom like cooking over in the
26:42kitchen. Like I could just see it so
26:45clearly
26:46in my mind's eye. And so, I remember
26:48just thinking like I just have to hold
26:50out. I just have to hold out long
26:52enough. I just have to convince him to
26:53wait. Um unfortunately
26:57I I couldn't convince him to wait.
27:00Ultimately, he he did me. And you know,
27:05at that point in my life, like I had
27:06such a
27:09naive
27:10mind. Like I just knew so little about
27:15the actual physical act of sex. I just
27:17thought there was one way to do it. Like
27:21I thought
27:22you know, you you just laid on your back
27:24and you had to face each other. So, I
27:26remember thinking that if I laid on my
27:28stomach, he wouldn't be able to me.
27:31Oh, man. Found out
27:33>> Yeah. that doesn't matter.
27:35Um yeah, I remember me and then and I
27:39remember just begging him to stop and
27:41telling him it hurt and
27:43didn't really matter what I said. He
27:47When he finished, he got up and kind of
27:48smiled and walked out of the tent.
27:51>> And I just laid there feeling like
27:56devastated.
27:58Being in a lot of physical pain. I mean,
28:00I remember blood running down my legs.
28:03Um
28:05I Yeah, I just remember being in a lot
28:07of pain. Like I'd just been kidnapped
28:09from my family. I was scared. I'd been
28:12taken away from them.
28:14Um you know, and also because I went to
28:17church every Sunday my whole life.
28:20Like I had had a lot of lessons on
28:22chastity, purity, which was all about
28:25like waiting for marriage before you had
28:27sex and
28:29um
28:31So
28:32I also felt like I was ruined. Like I
28:35felt like I was unclean and nobody'd
28:37want me now cuz I wasn't as good as as
28:40everyone else.
28:41Nobody wanted someone who was broken and
28:43dirty. Oh, man.
28:45And at that point, I honestly don't
28:48remember if I passed out or if I just
28:50fell asleep.
28:51But the next thing I remember was this
28:53man kneeling over me and he had a piece
28:55of metal cable wrapping it around my
28:58ankle.
28:58>> Oh, wow. Bolting it like crushing bolts
29:01into place so that I couldn't run away,
29:03so that I couldn't untwist it or escape.
29:06And uh yeah, he had me chained up to a
29:09tree.
29:10That's what I remember waking up to.
29:13Wow, what
29:16Was the chain ever off of you?
29:18Um
29:20So, it was kind of on a
29:25There was
29:27a piece of cable that was bolted around
29:30two two different trees. So, there was a
29:34Like it was like strung through the
29:36camp.
29:38And then he'd made a loop around
29:41one end
29:42>> So, you could kind of go back and forth,
29:44slide and all.
29:44>> locked. There was like a a lock that had
29:47a key, so he could lock it onto this
29:51cable and I could like move a little
29:53bit, like enough to use the bucket and
29:56enough to lie down inside the tent and
29:57that was about it.
30:00Um and then he wore the key around his
30:03neck all the time. What what month is
30:05this? June. Early June, beginning of
30:07June.
30:08>> so it's warmer at least. Okay.
30:12>> And uh
30:14Yeah, I mean, the only time he
30:16would
30:18unlock me, I'd still have like the metal
30:22cable around my ankle. That didn't come
30:24off till he eventually cut it off.
30:26Oh my gosh. But um he'd initially hold
30:29it, so it was like I was on a leash and
30:31then as more time passed, he would let
30:33me hold it myself.
30:35But
30:37you know, it was
30:39a trip hazard.
30:41Like it would have been very difficult
30:43to run away with that
30:46I mean, being
30:48chained up the way I was.
30:51Yeah. It would have It would have caught
30:53It would have been He would have caught
30:54me. Yeah.
30:56Yeah.
30:59So, what's next?
31:01Well,
31:03I mean,
31:05they gave me like a new name. They said
31:08I couldn't
31:08>> you a new name? Yeah, they said my name
31:10was no longer Elizabeth.
31:13Uh they started talking about
31:16how God had commanded them to kidnap me,
31:20how they hadn't actually really wanted
31:22to, how
31:25um
31:26I was I should be grateful
31:28that I had been chosen by God and that I
31:31might not see it right now, but one day
31:33I would and one day I'd come to love him
31:36as a wife truly loves her husband and
31:39that one day I would have kids with him
31:42and one day I would, you know, we would
31:44come back into civilization
31:47and we would be like the world's last
31:49hope and uh I would stop anyone from
31:54trying to take him to prison because he
31:57was my husband and I would eventually
31:59love him at that point. That's so
32:01delusional.
32:03Oh my gosh. Um I mean, it sounds It does
32:05sound delusional, but
32:08like
32:09ultimately what he liked was was power.
32:14He liked to feel important.
32:15>> Yeah, for sure.
32:16>> And
32:18he'd found I mean, he'd led
32:21Like honestly, he should have never He
32:23should have never been able to kidnap
32:25me. He should have been caught years
32:26before. Oh, wow. Okay.
32:28>> Like he had done terrible things
32:30>> Oh. Oh, wow.
32:31>> well before he ever kidnapped me.
32:34And like there should have been
32:35interventions. He should have spent time
32:38in prison. [clears throat]
32:39>> doing those things? Um
32:43People knew about it, but like no one
32:45had ever reported him.
32:47Or if they had, nothing had ever come of
32:49it. Oh, wow.
32:50>> But I mean, he had been married like he
32:54my
32:55the my other captor, that was his third
32:57marriage.
32:58And like he'd had
33:00he'd had kids with his first wife,
33:03his Wow. second wife, um he had
33:06stepdaughters
33:07and like I mean, he he had sexually
33:10abused them.
33:12Um like he would watch them shower. Like
33:16he knew his second wife was afraid of
33:18mice, so he would He caught a whole
33:21bunch of mice.
33:22Like they were dead and then he'd like
33:24fill the oven up with dead mice or like
33:27stick them under the burners.
33:29>> Like
33:30he like Just cruel.
33:32>> Yeah, he was a bad person. Like
33:35even the time when he was in in high
33:38school, he was bad. Like he terrorized
33:40the other kids in the neighborhood. Like
33:42He'd put them in rabbit cages and pee on
33:45them.
33:45>> Oh my gosh. Really?
33:47>> Like he really should have never been
33:50able to kidnap me.
33:51Like he should have been caught years
33:54before. He had led like his whole life
33:56he'd been a predator.
33:58Oh my gosh. Yeah.
34:00And like he'd stalked women and like
34:04yeah, he was
34:06he was a
34:07he was a monster. Yeah.
34:09So, um
34:11yeah, he really liked power. He really
34:14liked control. He liked feeling
34:15important. And I think he'd found the
34:18best way to manipulate people,
34:20particularly in Utah,
34:23was to say it was part of his religion.
34:26Um and that's how he got away with a lot
34:28of things that he did. I mean, people
34:31ever questioned him, he'd be like, "Oh,
34:32this is part of my religion." And that
34:34usually would shut people down.
34:36And I think also if you look at that
34:39time period, 9/11 had only happened
34:42Yeah, that's right. 9 months earlier.
34:46>> And uh so I think he really
34:49he was smart and I think he knew how to
34:52behave. He knew how to dress. He knew
34:54how to act that would cause people to
34:58stay away from him.
34:59And um I mean, he got away with it. Got
35:02away with it for a long time. Did he
35:04believe his
35:07intentions were from God?
35:10Like legitimately, do you think? Do you
35:11think he was psychotic?
35:15I think
35:17Well, during the trial, there was a
35:20piece of evidence
35:22um that was brought in that was a letter
35:25that he had written. I think it was to
35:27his mom years and years earlier and it
35:31talked about how he was a good actor.
35:34And so I think
35:40it's really hard for me to say that I
35:43think he was crazy or psychotic
35:46because you couldn't do everything he
35:49did
35:50>> and get away with it if you were Yeah.
35:53if you were
35:55not smart. Oh, no. No, he's obviously an
35:57intelligent guy. Um but I think So, I
36:01think early on
36:03he'd found that religion was a really
36:05good way to manipulate people. Was a
36:08really good way to feel like important
36:11and you could control other people
36:14through religion.
36:16And so I think he had this facade. And I
36:20mean, like it wasn't straight out the
36:21box, like I'm I'm a prophet of God. Like
36:25I'm the next Davidic king. It wasn't one
36:28day he was like working his normal job
36:30and then the next day coming out with
36:31that.
36:32Um I think it was just kind of little by
36:35little, like layer by layer.
36:37>> Yeah. And I think he had
36:41had this facade
36:43for so long
36:45that
36:49I think he did have himself convinced
36:53to a point, but I also think he did know
36:56what he was doing and
36:59like he just he just wanted to a little
37:01girl. Oh, man.
37:06Well, my daughter's 16.
37:09She's blonde, blue hair blue eyes.
37:12And uh
37:15watching your documentary was
37:17that was rough.
37:19Yeah. I mean,
37:20>> Thinking about her.
37:21He would have easily targeted her
37:23because I wasn't the only girl I wasn't
37:25the only girl he had initially tried to
37:26kidnap.
37:28Um and then
37:30like he had plans to kidnap other girls.
37:33He was just looking for the right
37:34target. Was there a
37:37um
37:37an attempt like on your cousin, I think,
37:39right?
37:39>> Yes, there was an attempt on my cousin.
37:42And then
37:44um during my time in captivity, he had
37:46moved us to Southern California for the
37:48winter and he had actually attempted to
37:50kidnap another young girl. Fortunately,
37:53neither were successful.
37:55>> what was this What stopped it?
37:57Um the first one was he had cut through
38:01a screen on a window and he started to
38:04move the blinds and and my cousin had
38:06like glass ornament trinkets on the
38:09window sill
38:11and he had pushed the blinds instead of
38:13lifting them and some of them had
38:14crashed off.
38:16>> And uh my uncle's bedroom was just close
38:20down the hall and my uncle had heard it
38:22and he had just run into her room,
38:24slammed the lights on, yelling her name.
38:27And it was before he'd gotten through
38:29the window. It was before he was like
38:31even
38:33like his arm wasn't even through the
38:35window at that
38:35>> So, by the time your uncle got there, he
38:37had bolted. He was gone.
38:38>> he heard He heard my uncle yell her name
38:41and he was out of there. Wow. Yeah, and
38:44then the second attempt, um
38:46he actually never saw the girl in real
38:49life, but he had
38:51he had scouted out different churches in
38:53the area and um
38:56you know, like
38:58typically people who go to church are
39:01really kind
39:03>> Yeah, welcoming. [singing] Yeah.
39:04>> people and I think that's wonderful and
39:07there was a couple who had really
39:10welcomed him and they're like, "Why
39:11don't you come over for dinner tonight?"
39:14And um
39:16he went over to their house for dinner.
39:18He saw a picture, just a picture of a
39:21young girl and um he's like, "Oh, you
39:25know, who is this?" And they're like,
39:26"Oh, it's you know, it's my daughter
39:29from my first husband, from my first
39:30marriage and you know, she spends splits
39:32her time
39:34between his house and our house and
39:36she's with him right now and
39:38and uh so he's like, "Oh, you know, when
39:41when do you get her? Like,
39:43Like, do you get her often? Or, you
39:45know, and it's just conversation. He
39:47figured out when
39:49uh the mother had time with her daughter
39:51and when she was with her father and so
39:53that he then like
39:55like I figured out that in a few weeks
39:59that she'd be with her mom and that's
40:02when he decided he was going to go after
40:03her.
40:04So, the night that he went after her
40:07um he made it to her house. He found a
40:10sliding door that was open.
40:12Um he started to open the door, started
40:15to step in the house, and I bet I bet
40:17most people think snoring's not a
40:19blessing.
40:21But, he heard
40:23some man just having deep, bear-like
40:27snores, and he knew to reach the girl
40:30he'd have to get in past this man
40:33snoring. And at that point he just
40:36decided it wasn't it wasn't worth the
40:38risk, and Oh my gosh.
40:40>> got back into camp, he was like, it was
40:42a test of our faith. Like, when Abraham
40:45had to take his son Isaac up the
40:47mountain to slay him
40:49cuz God commanded him to, it was a test
40:52of Abraham's faith. And then God was
40:53like, don't slay your precious son.
40:56Like, Yeah.
40:57>> he's yours. I'm not going to take him.
40:59>> gosh.
40:59>> like, this is that same kind of trial.
41:02We were tested to see if we truly
41:04trusted God, and we passed the test.
41:07>> Oh my gosh. You you telling the story
41:08how you're
41:10It's um there's no way he could have
41:12been psychotic to be able to have
41:16to have dinner with somebody, to sit
41:18down with somebody, to have intelligent
41:19conversations, to ask questions, very
41:22specific questions about a picture, to
41:24that's not
41:26that's that's very You're a smart guy.
41:28You're
41:29building your
41:30case, your crime, your
41:32doing something to plan and premeditate
41:36and to do something
41:37to harm and hurt people. That's I mean,
41:40narcissist?
41:41>> Oh yeah, totally. For sure.
41:43>> [laughter]
41:43>> Like, megalomaniac?
41:45Definitely. Like, Self-absorbed,
41:49everything, yeah.
41:50>> Yeah.
41:50Predatory?
41:52No doubt.
41:54Wow.
41:55Mhm.
41:56Okay, so you
41:58what's happening now?
42:00I mean, really the next 9 months were
42:03just
42:06>> [sighs]
42:07>> filled with The same.
42:09different layers of
42:10of abuse.
42:13Sexual, emotional.
42:17Just
42:19pretty horrific. Like, starvation,
42:23dehydration.
42:25Intentional starvation?
42:28To a point, yeah. Yeah.
42:31I mean, some of it was just
42:34because there was no food and he didn't
42:36want to go out and bring any back. Um
42:39but also like they did
42:41they did monitor what I ate. I only got
42:44to eat what they gave me. And like one
42:45time
42:47um I mean, he used to sometimes bring
42:50people's leftovers back to camp. Like,
42:52he'd dig through garbage cans and bring
42:54people's leftovers to camp. And one time
42:57he'd found like half a burrito, like a
42:59pretty pretty big burrito, not like a
43:01little frozen one, but a pretty big one
43:04in a garbage can, and he brought it back
43:05to camp. And uh he's like, oh, look what
43:09I brought Look what I brought both of
43:11you to uh
43:13Wanda Barzee, my other captor, and
43:14myself. And she cut it in half, and then
43:17she was like, oh, you choose what half.
43:20And I mean, like the end of the burrito,
43:23you know, had the extra flap of
43:24tortilla. Right.
43:26>> starving, and she's like, oh, she's
43:27telling me I can choose. So, I chose
43:29that half, and then I got in trouble for
43:31choosing that half.
43:33Like, she just was like, God clearly
43:35hasn't humbled you enough. And
43:37like, you should recognize I'm more
43:38important than you. And you know, you
43:41should just be aware that you are I
43:43mean, she called me her handmaiden, but
43:45like slave. And uh you know, you should
43:49have known better than taking this. So,
43:51I mean, I got in trouble for taking the
43:53half of burrito, or I guess really the
43:55quarter of burrito that had the extra
43:57flap of tortilla.
43:59Um but it I mean, it was just a lot of
44:01things like that that happened. I mean,
44:04and everything they did, they justified
44:09by using God or scripture or
44:13like they used to have terrible fights.
44:16Like, I'd never seen a couple like
44:19scream at each other the way that they
44:20did. I mean, I'd seen my parents have
44:22disagreements, but I'd never heard them
44:24scream at each other.
44:26And these two would scream at each
44:27other, and a lot of time it was over me
44:30um because Wanda Barzee would be jealous
44:34because he'd be paying me attention. And
44:36and uh she'd be like, oh, you're just
44:39lusting after her, and I'm the mother of
44:42Zion, and I have a throne waiting for me
44:45in heaven. And like,
44:49she was like, you know, I'm a queen, and
44:53Did you ever think that or did they ever
44:55think that somebody would hear them? I
44:57mean, were was it that remote
44:59where nobody was afraid to speak loudly
45:01or scream or yell? Like,
45:02>> I mean, in the early days, it was quiet.
45:05It was quiet. But, as months went on,
45:09it was
45:11it didn't matter as much.
45:12>> Months, wow. Oh my gosh.
45:18So, take me back now to what's
45:19happening.
45:21Sort of rewind.
45:22What happens here now? You're gone. What
45:24takes place here?
45:25>> my sister, she actually was awake when I
45:29was being kidnapped. She saw it happen.
45:32But, I mean, her eyes weren't wide open.
45:33She didn't want him to know she was
45:35awake. He could have killed her. Yeah.
45:37Um she actually thought he had a gun.
45:39>> How old was she? Um she was nine. Nine,
45:41wow.
45:42>> So, you know, just
45:43just young. Just little. Yeah.
45:46And uh
45:48we had an alarm system on our house. And
45:51so, after he'd gotten me up, she kept
45:54waiting for the alarm system to go off,
45:56and it never went off. So, she thought
45:58he was still in the house, and she
46:00waited and waited.
46:02And um
46:04then she finally like got her courage up
46:08and went into my parents' bedroom and
46:10you know, went to my dad's side of the
46:12bed first, and he was in a pretty deep
46:14sleep, so he didn't immediately respond.
46:17And then went around to my mom's side of
46:19the bed, and she was like, my mom was
46:20like, what are you doing? Why are you
46:22out of bed? Like, you should be in bed.
46:23You should be asleep.
46:25Um
46:26Come on, I'll take you back to your
46:28room. And my sister was like, no,
46:29Elizabeth's gone, Mom. Elizabeth is
46:31gone.
46:32And my mom was like, no, I'm sure she's
46:34just in another room cuz Yeah, of
46:36course.
46:36>> my little sister like
46:40she's really at least back then, she was
46:41like a really hot sleeper, and she liked
46:44to like cuddle right up next to me, and
46:47I hated it. And she like stole the
46:49blankets, and sometimes she kicked in
46:51her sleep. And
46:52so, it wasn't like that strange for me
46:55to like go into my baby brother's room
46:58where he hadn't fully transitioned from
46:59the crib to the toddler bed, or go lie
47:03on the sofa downstairs in the kitchen.
47:06I mean, that wasn't like
47:08that wasn't that strange for me to do
47:10that. And someone was like, oh, we'll
47:11find her. It's fine. And by this point
47:14my dad had woken up, so I was like,
47:15okay.
47:17Like, let's go find her.
47:19And they're checking all the rooms. And
47:21you know, with each room they're
47:22checking and I'm not there, they're
47:23becoming more and more worried. They go
47:25down to the kitchen
47:27uh or they go down the stairs. My dad
47:30turned to go to like the formal living
47:32room, which I wouldn't have gone in
47:34there.
47:35Um
47:36and my mom turned to go in the kitchen.
47:38Like, the panic is there at this point.
47:40She's just like slamming on the lights.
47:42Her eye goes immediately to the window
47:45above the kitchen sink. She saw the
47:47screen cut.
47:48>> Oh my
47:49>> My little sister's just in the
47:50background saying, you're not going to
47:51find her. A man came and took her.
47:53And that's just when my mom screams to
47:56my dad, Ed, call 911. Elizabeth is gone.
48:00Oh my gosh.
48:02Yeah, and then as far as I understand
48:05just chaos erupted at that point. Like,
48:09my parents were calling all the
48:10neighbors. Where their daughter's gone.
48:12Had anyone seen or heard anything? I
48:15think the police or the FBI were a bit
48:18upset with my parents because all the
48:19neighbors were running over, and then
48:21they're like, you've contaminated the
48:23crime scene.
48:24Um
48:26and yeah, just from that moment on, it
48:28was just
48:30panic and chaos and confusion. And
48:35you know, my family was interrogated.
48:39And
48:40like
48:41did any of them have something to do
48:43with my disappearance? And my parents
48:46were very closely looked at. And my
48:48uncles were looked at. Even like my
48:50older brother and my brother just
48:53younger than me. Like,
48:55they were looked at. Which when I
48:57eventually heard that they were being
48:58considered, I remember just thinking,
49:00this is just ridiculous. Like, no one in
49:03my family would ever hurt me.
49:05>> Yeah, right.
49:07>> now that I've like worked in child
49:09safety and advocacy for, you know, the
49:11last
49:1320 years, like I I realize that most
49:16kidnappings are family related or
49:18someone that you know. And so, it is
49:21common to consider the parents. But,
49:23when I first heard that, I was like,
49:24this is ridiculous. This is this is so
49:26stupid. How could anyone think that my
49:29parents
49:29>> your time.
49:30>> Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I remember my
49:32dad telling me how
49:34people would go to the police and be
49:36like, "Oh, Ed Smart, he killed her and
49:38then he he like buried her in the walls
49:41of the house and
49:43like just just craziness and you know,
49:48my dad my parents had built our house
49:52themselves and you know, they'd like if
49:54they need help with something they had,
49:56you know, found the workers to come and
49:58work and
50:00so they were making lists of everyone
50:02who'd been to the house and um
50:05at one point my like in this list there
50:09was a name on the list that um the
50:12police were like, "Oh, well, did you
50:14know this man was a felon?" And my dad
50:16was like, "No." "You know, he came to us
50:18highly recommended from like our our
50:21local church." Yeah. Like he's like, "I
50:23thought he'd been fully vetted." Like
50:25no, I had no idea and they're like,
50:27"Well, yeah, he's he's spent time in
50:29prison." And so he became like the main
50:32suspect and
50:33>> Yeah.
50:34you know, he
50:36there was mileage on his Jeep that he
50:38just wouldn't say where it was from.
50:41Like a couple
50:42>> that? I have no idea. I have no idea,
50:46but he never would say where this
50:48you know, extra couple hundred miles
50:52had come from and so you know, police
50:54thought he'd kidnapped me, he'd driven
50:57me out into the desert, me, buried me
50:59and driven back. That's just what they
51:01thought had happened and then you know,
51:04he had a brain aneurysm in prison or in
51:07jail and and died and my my grandpa
51:11he was
51:12he was a doctor and he's like, "I just
51:14know Elizabeth hit him on the head and
51:17he that's why he had a brain aneurysm."
51:19>> [laughter]
51:20>> Good for her. Yeah.
51:22Um [clears throat]
51:24of course it wasn't him, but when he
51:26died the police were like,
51:28"She's gone. Like we probably
51:32we probably won't ever find her." What
51:34was that initial night like when they
51:36were trying to find you? What did they
51:38do? Do you remember or or did did you
51:40you remember hearing about that at all?
51:41Like what were the police was it just
51:44It was just chaos. I mean, as far as
51:47like they had come in
51:48>> that they sent out or something, right?
51:50>> there were dogs. I don't know if that
51:52happened that first night, okay, but I
51:54know that dogs were brought in and the
51:56dogs could only track us up to the road
51:58where the police car passed right in
52:00front of us, which
52:01like I was like, "Well,
52:04I never got in a car. Like how could my
52:07scent have just disappeared?" Oh, they
52:09Okay, so they thought when you got to
52:11the road, she obviously jumped in a car.
52:14Because the dogs like couldn't track
52:16anything any further. That was Wasn't
52:18there a trail?
52:19>> they ever got.
52:20>> There? There was a trail, yeah.
52:21>> Why didn't they go up the trail? Like I
52:23I don't know. I think
52:26maybe they did, but the dogs just didn't
52:28pick anything up, but I mean,
52:30where was brought is where I was taken.
52:33I don't know.
52:34I don't know if enough people had then
52:36gone over it before
52:39before the dogs were brought in. I I
52:40don't know. Wow.
52:42And he he had um
52:46eventually brought you back into town,
52:48right?
52:48>> Yes, but it was not down that trail.
52:51Oh, wow. It was a different trail.
52:54Wow. Okay. Yeah, I was only ever taken
52:56up that that ex- that specific trail
53:00the first night I was kidnapped.
53:03Yeah.
53:04What was that like for you coming back
53:05into town?
53:07I mean, initially it was like very
53:09hopeful
53:10that someone was going to recognize me,
53:12that someone was going to do something,
53:14but also by that time like
53:17I had lived under their threats for so
53:21long and
53:23they followed through with what they
53:25said they were going to do to me and
53:28they threatened my family and
53:32>> [sighs]
53:33>> they felt invincible. So,
53:37I was I was excited to go down into
53:41town, but I was also nervous and I mean,
53:46one of them was always right in front of
53:47me, one of them was always right behind
53:49me.
53:50>> It was almost like they were touching me
53:53like the whole time and I mean, I've I
53:55have been questioned so many times
53:57about, "Well, why didn't you scream? Why
53:59didn't you yell? Why didn't you just run
54:00away?"
54:01Um it was not that simple. And I think
54:06when you step back like I'm not the only
54:09one who's had that response. I think you
54:11can look at you know, victims of
54:13domestic violence and you can be like,
54:15"Well, you have a car, you have money,
54:17you have a phone. Why don't you just
54:19leave?" Like it's never it's never that
54:21simple. Like
54:23these people are monsters. They're
54:25they're predators. They put so much they
54:28instill so much fear inside of you and
54:32you recognize just how capable they are
54:34of hurting you or hurting someone you
54:36love
54:37that you are just in such a state of
54:41survival. That's all you can think of
54:43and survival usually means doing what
54:46they tell you to do.
54:47>> Yeah. And minimizing consequences at all
54:50cost.
54:52Was there there was a moment though that
54:54you were in a
54:55like a library or something and a
54:57policeman came? So,
55:00um
55:01before
55:03he took us to Southern California, they
55:06decided, you know, we weren't going to
55:07survive a a winter in Utah. We need to
55:11to find somewhere to go. We need to look
55:13at some maps. We could go to the public
55:16library and look at a whole bunch of
55:17different maps.
55:19And [snorts] someone had seen us,
55:21someone had suspected us, they called
55:23the police. A homicide detective
55:26approached us in the library.
55:28Oh, wow. Somebody had called the police
55:30because they thought it was you. I
55:32didn't realize that.
55:33>> they just Yeah, they thought it was me
55:35or they just thought it was strange. It
55:38seemed suspicious. Okay. And I guess it
55:41was a couple different phone calls that
55:43the police had called or had received.
55:47And uh I mean, this detective he was
55:50plain clothes. He just flashed his badge
55:53as he got closer to us. I didn't even
55:54know what the word homicide meant at
55:56that point in time.
55:58And he's like, "I'm a homicide
55:59detective. We've had a few phone calls
56:01about a missing girl. Um you know, I
56:04just need to see I just need to see her
56:06face." Cuz I was I was like completely
56:09veiled and covered up at that point.
56:12Um and again, my captors had the perfect
56:16excuse to not show my face because it
56:18was this is part of our religion.
56:21And it would be against our religion for
56:23you to see your face.
56:25And I'm sorry. Like I'm sorry, but only
56:28her
56:30only her family and her future husband
56:32will ever see her face.
56:35And um I mean, I was sitting down
56:38next to Wanda Barzee and as soon as this
56:40man said he was a homicide detective
56:42like her hand had just
56:44like clenched down on my leg and it was
56:46just like it was just it was just like
56:48reliving being kidnapped all over. It
56:50was just like
56:52a reminder of what they were capable of
56:55and
56:56there's that saying, you know, the evil
56:58you know is better than the evil you
56:59don't know and
57:01and uh
57:03like I didn't know if that police
57:05officer would believe me. I didn't know
57:07if he was actually capable of protecting
57:09me. No one had protected me thus far. No
57:11one had stopped them from hurting me
57:13thus far, so
57:16So, there was a part of you that was
57:17probably like,
57:19"Please don't
57:21figure this out." Like like the police.
57:23Like I don't want them to know that this
57:24is me because I'm in more danger. I
57:27wouldn't say that. I wanted I wanted to
57:31be rescued.
57:32I wanted to be saved,
57:35but I also wanted it to be in a way that
57:37my family wouldn't be put in danger
57:40and that I wouldn't be put in danger.
57:42>> Wow.
57:43And I didn't know like how that would
57:46all work out.
57:48So, I didn't necessarily know what the
57:51right rescue would look like, but I just
57:54knew it needed to look like
57:57I wasn't
57:59like making a break for freedom
58:02because I felt like I mean, I was 14
58:04years old. I felt like they were
58:05invincible.
58:06>> Yeah.
58:08Yeah.
58:11Okay. So,
58:17when
58:18is when this happened was this in where
58:19where were you at? Was this in
58:20>> This was Salt Lake.
58:21>> This was Salt Lake.
58:22>> Mhm. Okay. So, then they bring you back
58:24up
58:25and
58:27there was another time that you
58:30they got you on the bus, right? They put
58:32you on a bus?
58:33>> So, um
58:35to get to Southern California. Yeah, we
58:37rode the Greyhound bus.
58:39What was that like? Um
58:42it was
58:44it was stressful.
58:46Um
58:47like the morning that we were catching
58:50the bus, it was really really early
58:53and I remember sitting in the bus depot
58:55just looking at the people around me
58:58just hoping that someone would recognize
59:02who I was and I remember like staring at
59:05this one woman who looked like maybe she
59:07was a mother
59:08and just hoping she would
59:11help me
59:13and I remember her just looking back at
59:15me and kind of snarling at me and being
59:17like,
59:18"Like what are you staring at? Why don't
59:19you take that rag off your face?" Oh,
59:21wow. And just kind of hearing that just
59:24made me
59:25just
59:26deflate.
59:27Made me feel like, "Oh,
59:29no one
59:30no one is here to help me.
59:32Like no one would even believe me if I
59:34were to say something because we look
59:37different. And
59:40that wasn't such an uncommon response to
59:42us. I mean I remember seeing people when
59:44they'd be walking down the same side of
59:46the street as us, they'd look up, they'd
59:48see us,
59:49they'd cross the street, keep walking,
59:51and then once they were past us, they'd
59:52cross back over.
59:54Or when people would drive by in their
59:56car, sometimes they'd roll their window
59:59their windows out and yell things like
1:00:01Osama or Bin Laden at us.
1:00:04So
1:00:05>> Jeez. like it wasn't that uncommon of a
1:00:08of a response.
1:00:11That felt That felt pretty devastating.
1:00:16Yeah.
1:00:18So when did you
1:00:19finally get rescued?
1:00:21Um so it'd been it'd been 9 months and
1:00:26we were still in Southern California
1:00:28and they started to talk of like other
1:00:30places, other locations to go to try to
1:00:32kidnap other young girls.
1:00:35And um because this was after his second
1:00:38attempt had failed.
1:00:40And they were talking about big cities
1:00:42far, far away like New York or
1:00:44Philadelphia and I just remember
1:00:47thinking if we ever make it there,
1:00:49I'll never be found. No one would ever
1:00:51expect to see Elizabeth Smart in
1:00:54in any of those locations and I didn't
1:00:56even really know if the search was still
1:00:59going on for me at that point.
1:01:01And I just knew that my best chance of
1:01:04being rescued was to get back to Utah.
1:01:07And I knew how they
1:01:10acted. I mean I'd watched them for 9
1:01:13months. I'd been
1:01:15a victim of
1:01:17of their manipulation for 9 months so I
1:01:20knew how they did it.
1:01:22And I remember just trying to doubt on
1:01:24them. I remember just being like I
1:01:26you know I know God would never speak to
1:01:29me like I'm too sinful. You're You're
1:01:31his You're his prophet though. I know
1:01:33he'd tell you if we're supposed to go
1:01:35back but I just I just have this feeling
1:01:37like we're supposed to go back to Utah
1:01:40but could you please ask him because
1:01:43like I just know he'll answer you over
1:01:46me.
1:01:47And um
1:01:49like I think in that moment it made him
1:01:51feel important. It made him feel like
1:01:54I would guess that my last barrier
1:01:57against him had come down. I think it
1:02:00probably made him feel like I was
1:02:01accepting him on every level because
1:02:04although
1:02:05like in the 9 months that he had me,
1:02:08like
1:02:10>> [sighs]
1:02:10>> he always did what he wanted.
1:02:13But um he always knew that I didn't want
1:02:16it.
1:02:17I didn't want to be I didn't want to be
1:02:19abused. Like he always knew and I think
1:02:21in that moment he just felt like
1:02:24this was me just accepting him
1:02:26completely.
1:02:28And I so he ended up being like, "Oh, I
1:02:30think you're right. We should return to
1:02:32Salt Lake." And I I had a plan for that,
1:02:34too,
1:02:35because they had always talked about how
1:02:37they'd traveled all over the country and
1:02:39the different forms of travel and and
1:02:42they used to say things to me like
1:02:45"Oh, um you know, it's important for you
1:02:47to experience this so that you know that
1:02:49you're no better than anyone else. It's
1:02:51important for you to experience alcohol
1:02:54because right now you just think you're
1:02:55so pure. You just think you're so
1:02:56righteous but you're no better than any
1:02:59drunk bum in the street." And and one
1:03:01time they'd forced me to like drink so
1:03:03much I'd thrown up and passed out in
1:03:06like my own
1:03:07vomit and it'd gotten all in my hair and
1:03:09my face and I woke up the next morning
1:03:11and I was crusted to the ground and
1:03:13>> gosh.
1:03:14>> They just kind of laughed at me and been
1:03:15like, "Oh, you know, God was just
1:03:17revealing your true form, like your true
1:03:20level of spirituality and it's face down
1:03:23in your own vomit and
1:03:25um
1:03:27so
1:03:29uh
1:03:30yeah, but they had just used
1:03:35their God talk for everything and um you
1:03:39know, they'd I just talked about how
1:03:41it was important for me to experience
1:03:43all of these
1:03:45these things so I knew I wasn't better
1:03:47than anyone else. They'd say things
1:03:48like, "It's important for you to descend
1:03:50below all things before you can rise
1:03:52above all things."
1:03:54And they talked about how hard like
1:03:56their hitchhiking travels had been and
1:03:59and I remember thinking that is exactly
1:04:02how I need to travel back to Utah
1:04:04because getting in someone else's car,
1:04:06like that's someone else's space. Like
1:04:09they won't have the same power or
1:04:10control over the situation if we're in
1:04:13someone's
1:04:13>> smart. If we're in someone else's space
1:04:16and someone is going to notice that this
1:04:18is not normal, that this is not right.
1:04:22So
1:04:23>> impressive. I had convinced them to
1:04:25hitchhike back. Um
1:04:28that was an adventure.
1:04:30>> [sighs]
1:04:31>> Uh
1:04:34I think there were some people along the
1:04:36way who suspected
1:04:39that it wasn't right but they just
1:04:40couldn't figure it out. They couldn't
1:04:42figure out
1:04:44um
1:04:46like
1:04:46>> They just thought there was a bunch of
1:04:47weird people. Or they
1:04:50yeah, the situation was strange or Yeah.
1:04:53I think I heard during the trial that
1:04:55even one person went to the police
1:04:57station to look at missing people.
1:05:00But they just
1:05:01couldn't figure out who it was.
1:05:03Um but that's that's how we made it back
1:05:06to Utah. That's how we made it back to
1:05:08Salt Lake.
1:05:09And it was the first day that we were
1:05:11back that I was rescued.
1:05:13I mean my captors
1:05:14>> Wow, the first day.
1:05:15>> Yeah, the first day. Like just
1:05:19just I don't even know if it was an hour
1:05:21we were in the Salt Lake Valley that I
1:05:23was rescued.
1:05:25We were walking up State Street. My
1:05:27captors were in a rush to get me up into
1:05:29the mountains cuz they're like, "You're
1:05:31never coming down again." But honestly
1:05:33like that felt fine to me because I just
1:05:37felt like, "Well, physically I'm that
1:05:39much closer to my family."
1:05:40>> Yeah.
1:05:41So um
1:05:44They
1:05:45yeah, we were walking up State Street
1:05:47and
1:05:48all of a sudden there were police cars
1:05:50pulling up around us and officers were
1:05:53jumping out and they were questioning my
1:05:55captors, questioning me.
1:05:57And again, I had a captor standing on
1:05:59either side of me. They were both
1:06:01physically touching me.
1:06:03Um
1:06:05like I just felt like it was too risky
1:06:07to immediately speak up, to immediately
1:06:10say who I was.
1:06:12And
1:06:13uh
1:06:14it wasn't until one of the officers
1:06:16separated me from my captors
1:06:19that I eventually admitted who I was but
1:06:22my captors were
1:06:25they were close enough to me that they
1:06:26could hear
1:06:28what was going on.
1:06:30And um
1:06:32like they had a specific way of
1:06:35speaking. I mean they didn't use like
1:06:38you, yours. It was thee, thine, thou. Oh
1:06:42wow.
1:06:42Okay.
1:06:43>> And
1:06:43so
1:06:45I
1:06:47had just felt like if I responded in the
1:06:50way that they usually spoke,
1:06:53that maybe they wouldn't
1:06:56know what I was responding to.
1:06:58And I was really scared to answer with
1:07:01my name cuz it was like if I answered
1:07:03with my name, my real name, if I just
1:07:05said, "Yes, I'm Elizabeth Smart." they
1:07:08would hear me.
1:07:09>> Wow. And what if they got out of jail or
1:07:12out of prison? What if they weren't
1:07:14locked up? What if somehow
1:07:17um
1:07:18they were released? Like I had no doubts
1:07:21they'd come back after me and they'd
1:07:23probably this time they probably
1:07:24wouldn't just come after me, they'd come
1:07:25after my family.
1:07:27>> Yeah. I mean
1:07:28I didn't like know the legal system. I
1:07:31didn't know what happened. I mean
1:07:34couldn't people get out on bail? Like
1:07:38I I just didn't know. And so I
1:07:43didn't want them to hear me saying who I
1:07:45was. And so I answered the way that they
1:07:48spoke which was by saying when one of
1:07:51the officers was like, "Are you
1:07:52Elizabeth Smart?" I responded with thou
1:07:55sayest because that was how they spoke
1:07:58and I didn't want them to hear me flat
1:08:00out admitting who I was because then
1:08:03they'd be upset with me and they'd come
1:08:05back after me and I might be punished
1:08:07and they might punish my family.
1:08:09Wow.
1:08:10What was that?
1:08:12What What did What did What What was his
1:08:13face? What was his demeanor when you
1:08:15said that? The police officers? Yeah, do
1:08:17you remember? Oh, I mean they weren't
1:08:18comforting at all. Like they were very
1:08:21aggressive. They were very abrasive.
1:08:23Like With you or them or just like
1:08:26>> Oh, wow.
1:08:26>> With everyone. I mean I was I then had
1:08:28my hands put behind my back. I was
1:08:30handcuffed and put in the back of the
1:08:31police car.
1:08:33Which immediately made made me think,
1:08:34"Oh my gosh, I said the wrong thing."
1:08:37Wow. Is that just like procedure?
1:08:40How did they do that? I mean at the time
1:08:42like I I mean at the time I thought I
1:08:44was in trouble but like I had I've had
1:08:48lots of police since be like, "Oh, well,
1:08:52you know, like they should not have done
1:08:54that but you hadn't just immediately
1:08:58um said who you were so they probably
1:09:00didn't know if you were a threat or not.
1:09:03Um I've had police officers be like,
1:09:04"Yeah, you know what? Like police put
1:09:07their lives on the line every day. You
1:09:09never know what someone is capable of.
1:09:11So best practices is if someone's in the
1:09:14back of the car, they are handcuffed." I
1:09:16mean you don't want them like pulling on
1:09:18the door handle and jumping out of the
1:09:19car as well.
1:09:21So it's just it was just best practices.
1:09:23Plus I think nobody expected me to come
1:09:26back alive. I think pretty much everyone
1:09:28thought they were just looking for a
1:09:29body at that point.
1:09:30>> Yeah.
1:09:33Can you just take me back real
1:09:36Your sister
1:09:38Because I think people might I I
1:09:40obviously most people who listen to this
1:09:41know your story, but there's going to be
1:09:42people that don't know your story.
1:09:44And your sister
1:09:47Um
1:09:48People might be like, "Well, how did the
1:09:49police find you?" Talk to me about that.
1:09:51So, um
1:09:53My sister had initially described the
1:09:56man who kidnapped me.
1:09:58And I mean the police had My my parents
1:10:01were obviously very protective of her.
1:10:04They didn't just want her to be like
1:10:06interrogated and interrogated and
1:10:08interrogated. Um but they had allowed
1:10:12the police to question her.
1:10:14Um they had to be in the room with her.
1:10:17Uh And she'd given them these answers
1:10:21and then eventually at some point
1:10:22they're like, "Well, let us try to
1:10:24hypnotize her. You know, maybe more will
1:10:26come to the surface. Also, she's 9 years
1:10:29old. Like
1:10:31she she might just remember things
1:10:33differently."
1:10:34>> Let's let's remember she's 9, right?
1:10:35Yeah. Like
1:10:37she's probably telling it to the best of
1:10:40her ability, but
1:10:42can we really take the word of a
1:10:449-year-old?
1:10:45And so they'd done all
1:10:48these interviews and really her
1:10:50description of him never changed.
1:10:52And
1:10:54one day she's just sitting in our
1:10:57bedroom randomly looking at the Guinness
1:11:00Book of World Records and she just
1:11:02came across this one page of like this
1:11:05extremely muscular woman.
1:11:07And my dad happened to walk in in that
1:11:09moment and my sister was like, "Dad, I
1:11:11think I know who kidnapped Elizabeth."
1:11:14And she's like, "It was it was Emmanuel.
1:11:17It was that guy who came and worked at
1:11:19our house just one day.
1:11:22Just just one time and she's like, "I
1:11:24think it was him."
1:11:26And so my dad went to the police.
1:11:29They said he he said, "I think Mary
1:11:31Katherine knows who kidnapped her.
1:11:34Um [snorts] it's this guy named
1:11:36Emmanuel."
1:11:37And the police were kind of like, "No,
1:11:39it's this Richard Ricci. Like Yeah. We
1:11:42think we know who it is."
1:11:44>> already figured it out, sure. And um my
1:11:46dad was like, "No. Like we don't have
1:11:49anything else. Like
1:11:51can we just look into him?" And so they
1:11:54kind of humored my dad and they're like,
1:11:55"Okay, we'll bring a sketch artist in
1:11:57and you can
1:11:59>> It was this was just like, "Yeah, we'll
1:12:00just let's just do this because
1:12:03he's complaining or something."
1:12:05>> Yeah. Yeah, wow. And so
1:12:07they had like two of my brothers come in
1:12:10and they tried to describe him. And my
1:12:12dad was like, "Well, what about me? I
1:12:13spent more time with him than anybody.
1:12:16Like the boys were hardly even around
1:12:18him. So, why can't I do it?" And so
1:12:21they're like, "Okay, you can do
1:12:24you can do a sketch of him." And so they
1:12:26did a sketch of him and they're like,
1:12:28"Okay, well, we're not going to release
1:12:29this because we don't want him to know
1:12:32that we're looking into him or anything
1:12:34like that."
1:12:36And they just told my dad to keep it
1:12:37quiet, but my dad
1:12:40um he had become friends with John Walsh
1:12:42of America's Most Wanted.
1:12:44And he had called John Walsh up and he
1:12:47had explained the situation. Oh, wow.
1:12:50>> And John Walsh was like, "No, we need to
1:12:52go public with this. We need to like
1:12:54have everyone looking for him. We need
1:12:56to do everything we can." And that I
1:12:59think it was that night or it was very
1:13:02quickly after
1:13:04um John Walsh went on Larry King Live
1:13:07and that's when the sketch was released.
1:13:09>> Really? Yeah. Wow.
1:13:12And then because that sketch was
1:13:13released
1:13:15uh Brian Mitchell, my captor, his
1:13:18brother-in-law saw the sketch and the
1:13:22name Emmanuel had been put out. And
1:13:25that's when the brother-in-law was like,
1:13:27"Do you think it's possible? Like do you
1:13:28think it's possible that it could be you
1:13:31know, your brother?"
1:13:32to his wife and he called up the police
1:13:34and he was like, "I think I know who
1:13:36you're looking for."
1:13:37And that's
1:13:39what led to my rescue.
1:13:42Wow.
1:13:44Oh my gosh.
1:13:48Wow.
1:13:49What what were the what were the
1:13:51next
1:13:53you know
1:13:556 months
1:13:56year, 18 months, 2 years after you were
1:13:59rescued? What was that like for you?
1:14:01Uh it was a it was a huge change.
1:14:05Um
1:14:08Just
1:14:09learning that I couldn't go back. Like
1:14:13there was no such thing as returning to
1:14:14the old normal. All of a sudden
1:14:17everybody knew my name. Everybody
1:14:19recognized me. Everybody wanted to talk
1:14:21to me, tell me stories about where they
1:14:24were the day that I was rescued or or
1:14:27their search stories for me or how they
1:14:29prayed for me for 9 months or how, you
1:14:32know, they slept with their parents or
1:14:33the parents would tell me about how
1:14:35their kids slept with them every night
1:14:37after I was kidnapped. Um
1:14:41I just had so many people telling me
1:14:43their stories and their experiences
1:14:44around my kidnapping. And then as I got
1:14:46older telling me their stories about
1:14:50being abused or being
1:14:52and feeling like since I'd got through
1:14:54it they could get through it. And um
1:14:58all of it was a huge
1:15:00it was a huge change for me because I'd
1:15:03say naturally like
1:15:05I'm I'm a homebody. Naturally I'm
1:15:10a bit of an introvert.
1:15:12And so it was it was a huge change. It
1:15:16was
1:15:17I mean it was exhausting like having
1:15:19just everyone
1:15:22wanting to talk to me. And like I so I
1:15:26will forever be grateful. I there's
1:15:28never been a day that's gone by that I
1:15:30have not been grateful for the search
1:15:33efforts, the love, the support,
1:15:36everything that I've received. Like I
1:15:38will be grateful for the rest of my
1:15:39life. But it still it still was
1:15:42overwhelming. I mean I used to get
1:15:44letters from prison from inmates being
1:15:46like, "If I'm ever in the same room with
1:15:48him, you don't have to worry about him
1:15:50ever again."
1:15:51>> [laughter]
1:15:52>> Or like randomly I'd get like
1:15:54proposals in the mail and engagement
1:15:57rings in the mail. I mean it was
1:16:00it was wild. Wow, what was it like going
1:16:02back to high school?
1:16:04Um I was very excited to go back to high
1:16:06school because
1:16:08when I'd been kidnapped I felt like
1:16:10everything had been taken away from me.
1:16:12And when I was rescued I was like, "I
1:16:14don't want to miss out on anything ever
1:16:15again."
1:16:16>> Yeah. So, I was very excited to go back
1:16:18to high school.
1:16:20Um but I mean it was it was different. I
1:16:22can't help but wonder if maybe
1:16:26parents had warned their kids not to ask
1:16:29me questions or, you know, not to
1:16:33like just to be sensitive around me and
1:16:35maybe that stopped people from
1:16:39cuz they didn't know how to act around
1:16:40me from maybe becoming
1:16:43like more friendly with me. But I feel
1:16:47like my friends who were friends with me
1:16:50before I was kidnapped, they were still
1:16:51my friends with me after. And as they'd
1:16:54made more friends in high school and
1:16:56invited them into our group, like those
1:16:59people realized that
1:17:01like I was just
1:17:03just another kid. Yeah.
1:17:05Um
1:17:07And so I think maybe it was
1:17:09it was probably a pretty different high
1:17:12school experience than other kids
1:17:15experience. Plus,
1:17:16you know, I had people who were wanting
1:17:18to interview me. And like
1:17:22they're like I still was in the news
1:17:25fairly often because of the trial and
1:17:28that taking so long. And
1:17:32I mean it wasn't just like
1:17:33>> that take? It was
1:17:35I mean it was so long that I was called
1:17:39into the US Attorney's office of Utah.
1:17:42And he was like, "Yeah, there's a
1:17:46statute of limitations, which means if
1:17:48that statute of limitations
1:17:51um Oh, stop.
1:17:52>> passes and he's not convicted, it's not
1:17:56going to trial, he will be released.
1:18:00And are you interested in pressing
1:18:02federal charges?"
1:18:05Of course. Gee, let me think about that.
1:18:07>> have come back after me again. Yeah. And
1:18:09if he didn't come back after me, he'd go
1:18:11after some other girl.
1:18:12>> sure. Um
1:18:14So, I mean it was
1:18:17it had been in the state courts for
1:18:18about 5 years. It was moved to the
1:18:21federal courts. And that of course took
1:18:23time to get their case together, but
1:18:26they brought in the top experts.
1:18:29Um and I'm so grateful for that. And
1:18:33then, you know, the defense was always
1:18:34like, "Well, he's not competent to stand
1:18:36trial. Well, we're trying to prove his
1:18:38competency."
1:18:40Um it was always a question of "Is he
1:18:42competent now? Was he competent when he
1:18:45committed this crime?" Which like part
1:18:47of me was just like, "Are you kidding
1:18:49me? Was there ever any question that he
1:18:52did this crime? Whether he was competent
1:18:53or not? Like he committed a felony. Like
1:18:58he kidnapped me. He held me hostage for
1:19:019 months. He abused me. He me. Like
1:19:05it shouldn't matter. He should be in
1:19:07prison the rest of his life. I mean
1:19:08honestly, like I was okay with him
1:19:11having his life ended quicker.
1:19:15But I don't blame you
1:19:17>> [laughter]
1:19:17>> at all. So, I mean it took the better
1:19:20part of a decade before my case was
1:19:23finally
1:19:25sentenced.
1:19:26>> gosh.
1:19:28Yeah. What was that day like for you? I
1:19:31mean it was a relief. I mean it felt
1:19:32like finally by the time that my case
1:19:36finally came to court, I'd been in
1:19:38France. I was living in France at the
1:19:40time and I came back from France
1:19:45and they're like, "Well, we just really
1:19:46need you for your testimony and then you
1:19:49can go back to France if you want." And
1:19:51I was just like, "No, I'm going to stay
1:19:54here until it's done. Like I don't want
1:19:57to have to go through this again. If I
1:19:59get recalled to the stand at some point,
1:20:01like I'm going to be here." And
1:20:05I did. I was there every single day in
1:20:07court until it was finished and then
1:20:09when it was finished and the verdict
1:20:12came back guilty on all counts, I mean
1:20:15it was it was a relief. I was like,
1:20:16"Finally, this is the end of this
1:20:19chapter." Wow.
1:20:22That's incredible.
1:20:24I have one big question for you. I ask
1:20:26everybody and I honestly don't know the
1:20:27answer to this. I thought I would know
1:20:28the answer to this but I don't know the
1:20:29answer to this question for you.
1:20:31Um
1:20:33if you could go back
1:20:36and stop that night from ever happening
1:20:39would you do it?
1:20:54I'm going to go with no.
1:20:57Because
1:20:59I
1:21:01have
1:21:02learned
1:21:04so much.
1:21:06I have found a purpose for my life that
1:21:10I don't know I would have other
1:21:11otherwise found.
1:21:12>> Yeah. Um I think you could have told me
1:21:16about sexual exploitation and violence
1:21:18and kidnapping and abuse and if I saw a
1:21:21fundraiser or a bake sale, I'd be like,
1:21:23"Yeah, here's 100 bucks. Good luck. Keep
1:21:25going." But I don't know that I would
1:21:28have
1:21:30gotten that much involved further than
1:21:32that.
1:21:33And
1:21:36I probably would not have met my husband
1:21:39and if I hadn't met my husband, I
1:21:41wouldn't have my children. I wouldn't
1:21:43have the life that I have today and
1:21:46despite everything, like I am happy and
1:21:50I do have a good life and
1:21:55I
1:21:58for as terrible as everything was
1:22:02I'm grateful for who I am today. That's
1:22:05that's uh I'm so glad you answered it
1:22:07that way. Really am. I think that's uh
1:22:12that's important for people to hear
1:22:14that.
1:22:15Cuz I think that you're
1:22:17work today is so important and what you
1:22:20do is so important and the incredible
1:22:22amount of people that you've helped is
1:22:24so important and you're here and you're
1:22:26alive and you're doing great things.
1:22:29And so I think you're pretty incredible
1:22:31person. Well, thank you. So appreciate
1:22:34you doing this
1:22:35and thanks for being here and all the
1:22:37things and letting us come to your house
1:22:38and love the dog.
1:22:41>> [laughter]
1:22:41>> Thank you.
1:22:42>> wondering, that was the dog.
1:22:44And uh anything else?
1:22:46I think that's everything.
1:22:47>> That's it. And that's all she wrote.
1:22:49Appreciate thanks.
1:22:50Thank you.

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