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She Was a Cop. She Was Also a Killer | Stephanie Lazarus Interrogation — Transcript

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0:00In the quiet suburb of Vanise,
0:01California, on the morning of February
0:0324th, 1986, Sherry Rasmmanson was found
0:07beaten and shot to death in the condo
0:09she shared with her new husband, John
0:10Rutton. At just 29 years old, Sherry was
0:14a rising star in the medical field. A
0:16hospital nursing director, admired by
0:18her peers, and newly married only 3
0:21months prior. Her murder sent shock
0:23waves through her family and colleagues.
0:25But despite initial suspicions of a
0:27burglary gone wrong, the case would go
0:29cold for more than two decades.
0:32Unbeknownst to most at the time, one of
0:34the people closest to John, someone who
0:36had once shared a deep, complicated
0:38history with him, was working just a few
0:40miles away. Stephanie Lazarus, a
0:43respected LAPD detective, had known Jon
0:46since their college days. The two had
0:48dated on and off, and even after Jon's
0:50relationship with Sherry became serious,
0:53Stephanie remained present in his life
0:54in subtle but persistent ways. For
0:57years, the case remained unsolved,
0:59buried beneath a mountain of older
1:01theories and limited forensic tools. But
1:04as technology advanced and the LAPD's
1:06cold case unit took a second look, a new
1:09thread began to unravel, one that would
1:11lead investigators to a shocking
1:13conclusion far closer to home than
1:15anyone expected. This is the
1:17interrogation of Stephanie Lazarus.
1:20Uh, I'm not sure. Stephanie, I don't
1:22know if you know my partner. Great. Hi,
1:24sir. Nice to meet you. Nice to see you
1:25guys. How's it going? Nothing around.
1:28Uh, well, have a seat.
1:31What this is is
1:33uh I didn't want to bring this up in
1:36your squad. You want to do that? Oh, no.
1:39It's fine. I think we're good. Okay.
1:45We're bring You're going to bring
1:46somebody in, right? Yeah. Well, let me
1:48explain the whole thing to
1:50I don't want to talk about this in the
1:52squad because I don't know who people
1:53are listening and if we go to my side,
1:55everybody's always wondering what
1:56everybody else is doing. Okay. But, uh,
1:59like we're talking about being busy and
2:01stuff. We've been assigned a case that
2:02we've been looking at. Okay. It's a new
2:04case and reviewing the case. There's
2:06some notes to see as far as your name
2:09being mentioned. Okay. Do you know John
2:12Ruten?
2:14John. John Rutton. Rutton. Rutton. Oh,
2:18yeah. I went to school with him. You
2:19did? Yeah. How long did you know him?
2:21Gosh, I went to school in um let's see,
2:24went to UCLA in
2:261978. I started and um you know, met him
2:31at school at the dorms. Mhm. Um were you
2:36guys friends? Close friends? Yeah, we're
2:37very close friends. I mean, what's this
2:39all about? Well, it's regarding it's a
2:42case we're working on. It involves John
2:44and in there some of the statements we
2:46we reviewed uh you know there's notes
2:48and stuff that that he knew you and
2:50stuff. Oh, yeah. I mean, we good
2:51friends. Um lived in the dorms for I
2:55lived in the dorms for 2 years. Um you
2:57guys lived in the same dorms? Yeah. Oh,
2:59okay. Yeah. Dyra. Okay. Were you guys
3:01just friends or anything else or? Yeah,
3:04we were we were good friends. Yeah. Was
3:07there any relationship or anything that
3:08developed between you guys? Yeah. I
3:10mean, we dated. Uh Uhhuh. you know. Um I
3:14mean, is what's this all about? Well,
3:17it's relating to uh his wife.
3:21Okay. Okay. Did you know her? Not
3:24really. I mean, I knew that he got
3:25married years ago. Uh-huh. Did you ever
3:28meet her? God, I don't know. Um do you
3:32know who she was or anything? Well, I
3:35Let me think. God, it's been a long time
3:37ago. Um
3:40um you know, I may have met her. Um
3:44Jeez, you know. Yeah. Uh well, let me
3:48see. Let me ask you. You said you you
3:49dated John. How long did you guys date?
3:53I mean, what are you guys is this
3:56something I mean, you said I was going
3:58to interview somebody about art and how
4:00you guys are Here's I mean, Stephanie,
4:02here's the situation is basically we,
4:05you know, we knew that this when we saw
4:08this in the in in this chrono that
4:09maybe, you know, there was some
4:10relationship there. That's what the
4:11chrono seemed to indicate. And we didn't
4:13want to come up to you at your desk and
4:16ask those kinds of questions or do
4:17anything. you know how up there people
4:19can see what's going on if you go into
4:20an interview room or people are in there
4:22getting supplies. So we we wanted to
4:24afford you some privacy, some
4:26confidentiality to talk about this
4:27because we thought it might be you know
4:28something you know you're married to
4:30someone else obviously and so forth and
4:31that you may not want to you know talk
4:33about these things in that setting where
4:34someone you know we don't want the rumor
4:36mill or gossip or any of that kind of
4:37stuff. That's fine. I mean, so we we did
4:39this just as as a means to try and speak
4:41to you in just a confidential place
4:43where you you know where where your
4:44business isn't out there for other
4:46people in you know your division to know
4:47about. I mean, you know, God, that's
4:48been a million years ago. I mean, you
4:51know,
4:53um what year is it now? 2009. I mean, I
4:56graduated in ' 82. 82. Yeah.
5:00Um you know, we dated um I dated other
5:04guys. I'm sure he dated other girls. Um
5:08Well, let me ask you roughly how long
5:10would you would you say you guys dated?
5:12Oh jeez.
5:14Um, I couldn't even say. I mean, I
5:18started school there in 78. I started
5:21UCLA 1978. I graduated in ' 82. Um, I
5:26don't even remember what year he
5:28graduated, if it was a year or two
5:30before me. Okay. Um, I think he was a
5:32little bit older than I was. I mean, you
5:34know, I can't remember if he was born,
5:36let's see, I was born in 60, 1960. I
5:39don't know if he was born in 58 or 59. I
5:41mean, I, you know, um, I mean, I knew
5:43his parents. I knew his sister. His
5:45brother went to Northridge.
5:47Um, um, you know, his sister spent the
5:51night at my house before. Obviously, I
5:53spent the night at his house before. He
5:54probably spent the night at my house
5:56before. Um, you know, I I you know, I
5:59don't Well, correct me if I'm wrong
6:02because from what you're telling me is
6:04you guys dated while you were in college
6:06together, right? Yeah. And probably
6:07after college.
6:09Um, I can't jeez. Um, trying to think
6:13when I met my husband. I met my husband
6:15in when did I meet Scott?
6:18Um, let's see. I was teaching DARE
6:21because I met Scott when I was teaching
6:23DARE up in Oregon. But we had long
6:26stopped, you know, dating before that.
6:29So, you haven't talked to him for a long
6:30time? Oh, I I think I haven't talked to
6:33him in a long time. Um, I couldn't even
6:34tell you when the last time I talked to
6:36him. Um, I met Scott, I'm thinking in
6:40'92, maybe. Um, April of 92. It was
6:44Scott being your husband. Yeah. I'm
6:46trying to think. I was teaching DARE.
6:49Let's see. What year is this? This is
6:51We'll be married. I got married in 1996.
6:54I think I met Scott in '92. Prior to
6:56that, I couldn't tell you how long I had
6:59talked, you know, talked to John prior
7:01to that. But since you since you met
7:03your husband, Scott, you hadn't talked
7:05to him. I mean, he may have called me uh
7:09once or twice before we got married,
7:11right? Um, you know, gez, I I lived I
7:15moved to see me in 1994 because I lost
7:19my house in the earthquake. Oh. Um, uh,
7:22quite honestly, I probably keep in
7:24contact with a few people from the
7:27dorms. We we all we all lived on the
7:2810th floor. Um, and,
7:33um,
7:36there's about three or four people I
7:39keep in contact with. There's probably
7:40like six or eight of us that were all
7:42really close. And who are those people?
7:45Oh, jeez. Um, Diana Basta.
7:49um the people I still keep I I haven't
7:52been in contact with her in a long time.
7:54Um I mean what you know what's what's I
7:58mean what's this all about? I mean well
8:00let me ask you what ended the
8:02relationship between you and John. You
8:05know I don't it was kind of a weird
8:07relationship. I mean we we we dated. Um
8:11I can't say that he was my boyfriend. I
8:13don't know that he would consider me his
8:15girlfriend. Um we just we dated. We did
8:18things. cuz I played sports in college.
8:19He played basketball. His brother played
8:22basketball.
8:23Um, we just, you know, it
8:27just didn't work out. I mean, I don't
8:30know what to tell you. It was like I
8:31went out with other guys. Um, saw other
8:34guys. I went on lots of vacations. Um,
8:37you know, and and once you guys split,
8:40were you guys still friends or kind of,
8:43you know, problems? Is it friendly? Not
8:46friendly? No, I don't think it was not
8:48friendly. I mean, we were friendly. Um,
8:50uh, I know that we went to Hawaii
8:54um, at one point. Um, another friend of
8:57mine who's actually dying right now, uh,
9:00was went to Hawaii with us, um, at some
9:03point. Um, remember roughly when that
9:06was? Oh jeez.
9:08Um, let me
9:11think. I'd have to check my pictures. Um
9:14or I'd say I'd ask Greg, but my friend
9:16Greg is like dying of liver cancer right
9:18now. Um
9:20yeah, I mean I you know and you were
9:23saying that um it's 2009 now. Had you
9:26ever met his wife?
9:28I may have. Do you know do you remember
9:30her name or anything or
9:33um
9:36um
9:38or what she did for a living or where
9:40she worked or anything about her? Well,
9:43I think she I I'm going to say I think
9:44she was a nurse.
9:48Um, man, I can't even remember how he he
9:50said he met her. Yeah. I mean, I I Yeah,
9:53I mean, it's been so long ago. Well, let
9:55me ask you, did you go to their wedding?
9:57You know, no, I didn't go to their
9:58wedding. Um, no, I don't did not go to
10:01their wedding. Um, couldn't even tell
10:05you what year we got married. I mean,
10:06you know, it's it's been a million years
10:08ago. Do you ever remember if you ever
10:09talked to her? cuz it seems like a lot
10:10of you who were at at the school at
10:13UCLA, you guys kind of were friends
10:14during and after school. So, I don't
10:16know if you guys still associated
10:18afterwards when once he was married or
10:19anything with him. Yeah. No, I don't
10:23think so. I mean,
10:26I would say, you know, the the people
10:29that were on the dorm floor, we'd have
10:30we'd have
10:32gettogethers. Um there's probably like
10:34four or five. I don't think he ever
10:36came. Um, yeah. I don't think No, there
10:39was there was like it was mostly girls,
10:42you know. Um, girl named Smeita Diane.
10:46Um, there's there's two Dian's, but the
10:50one Diane, I don't think she ever came.
10:51I kind of lost contact with her. We were
10:53good friends on the floor. Um, yeah. I
10:56mean, I don't you know, again, I I mean,
10:59what you know, I don't understand why
11:02you're talking about some guy I dated a
11:03million years ago. Well, do you know
11:04what happened to his wife? Yeah, I know.
11:06She got killed.
11:08What did you What did you hear about
11:09that? I I saw a poster at work. Um I'm
11:13sure I spoke to him about it. Um I think
11:18I spoke to another friend of his about
11:19it. Um and how did how did you first
11:22learn about that?
11:26Jeez. Someone could have called me. I
11:28could heard it at work.
11:30Um I think at one point there may have
11:33been a flyer or something. I know a good
11:35friend of his. Um, Were you on the job
11:36back then when that happened? Yeah, I
11:39think so. Yeah, I'm sure I was on the
11:40job. That's who I would have heard about
11:41it with the flyer. Um, he had a good
11:44friend, Mike. Mike Mike Baldrick. Mike
11:52um, anyways, a he may have lived in the
11:55dorms. I don't remember if that's how I
11:57met him. Um, I I may have talked to him.
12:00I mean, you know, I don't remember how I
12:02heard. I mean, I don't even remember
12:03what year it was. And you think you you
12:06thought you said you thought his wife
12:07was a nurse. Do you have any idea where
12:08she was working at the time? Or did he
12:10ever mention that to you? Was it a
12:12hospital or a doctor's office? I'm sure
12:14he must have mentioned it. Now, now that
12:15you're bringing that up, I think she
12:17worked at a hospital somewhere. And
12:19yeah, I may have met her at a hospital.
12:21Um I may have talked to her once or
12:24twice. um at a at a hospital or more um
12:29you know, but being that you were kind
12:30of you used to see uh John, you know,
12:34was it everything okay between you guys?
12:36I mean, there wasn't every anything
12:38uncomfortable or anything between you
12:39and her?
12:42Um you know, I don't know. I mean, it's
12:44God, it's been so many years. I
12:47mean, uncomfortable. I
12:50mean, I can't even I can't even remember
12:53if we had a conversation. I mean, we may
12:55have I may have I may have seen her at
12:58his apartment, you know. Jeez, how many
13:01years ago was that? I don't even know
13:02what year she, you know, got killed.
13:04Where was his apartment on Rosco? Okay.
13:08Yeah. Rosco and um
13:11um east or west of Dodo. Uh either east
13:15or west of Dodto. Do you know where he
13:17moved after Did he move after he got
13:19married or do you know or
13:25I'm sure he did. Did you know where he
13:27was living or
13:29somewhere in the valley? Did you ever
13:32visit him and his wife? No. No. Never
13:35went out, you know, get together,
13:37dinners,
13:39anything of that nature? No. No. Like I
13:41said, his sister used to come over. His
13:43sister had had come to my place. I knew
13:46his I knew his brother because his
13:47brother played basketball at Northridge.
13:49Um in fact, I was just coming across
13:51some pictures that I just scan
13:54uh scanned from
13:55um I take a lot of photos. Um like
13:5910,000 and I just did a service where I
14:03scanned everything. Um and I'd seen some
14:05pictures of his brother playing
14:06basketball. You just put them all on
14:07your computer so you could have them
14:08accessible and do things with them.
14:10Well, my partner is a big photo thing
14:11and he had a deal to scan. So, I spent a
14:16ton of time just scanning photos. I
14:18mean, I paid a company to do it. Mhm.
14:20Um, so I've got photos of I mean, his
14:23brother, his sister, you know, 10,000
14:25pictures. Oh, yeah. How long did that
14:27take them? Months.
14:30Now, what what do they do? They put that
14:32on a I'm just curious myself. Can they
14:33put it on They get all on one DVD? They
14:36don't need like a hard drive or
14:37anything? No. No. There's like I think
14:3911 DVDs. Yeah. I haven't even I don't
14:41even talk. Oh, they it's a series of
14:43DVDs that they put them on. Oh, yeah.
14:45Okay. Yeah. I mean, I got I'm not that
14:46familiar with computer stuff, so that's
14:48why I was asking. It's like 11 DVDs. Oh,
14:50okay. So, you know, um I haven't had a
14:53chance to go through them. I I You could
14:55go through and pick which ones you don't
14:57want. I don't have time to do that.
14:58Right. You know, so so like you said,
15:00did I you know, I I don't think we ever
15:03socialized. um you know uh he'd still
15:06call me. Um I can't say that I would I
15:09mean if he's married I don't know that I
15:10would have called him. I mean maybe who
15:12knows I you know I I don't know. It's
15:14been a million years ago. How long was
15:16John married before his wife died? I
15:18couldn't I have no idea. I have no idea.
15:22And uh after his wife died, did did you
15:25talk to him again or anything? Yeah, I
15:28mean I did talk to him. Mhm. I talked to
15:30him probably his parents. Um, probably
15:34some other friends. Um, you
15:37know, I'm sure I talked to him. Yeah.
15:40Um, but you you don't you're not sure
15:43where he moved to after he got married?
15:45No idea. I mean, never went over to to
15:47visit him or I don't think I mean I
15:49don't think so. I mean
15:52um I don't know. I don't I mean I don't
15:54think I did. Um I mean I know he lived
15:57on Rosco for a long long time.
16:04Um, I mean he I may know. I mean he may
16:06have told me where they lived somewhere
16:08in the valley. I mean he may have said I
16:10lived over such and such but I I
16:12couldn't tell you specifically where.
16:14But you don't remember specifically ever
16:16going over to visit him or visit them at
16:18where wherever he moved when he left
16:19Rosco. I I I honestly I don't know. I
16:22don't think so. But okay. You know I
16:25don't want to say no. I don't think so.
16:27And then he says oh yeah she came over
16:29for something. drop something off, you
16:31know? I'm I don't know. So, if you did
16:34go over there, it just be like a a quick
16:36thing like like you were saying, drop
16:37something off or maybe um God, but you
16:41don't remember as far as like going
16:42there to have dinner or like a social,
16:45anything at the house, party? Well, if
16:48you guys know something, I I just I
16:50can't I don't know. I don't think so. I
16:52mean, but after uh John's wife died and
16:57you said you may have been talking to
16:59him, did uh your relationship start up
17:02again? I would say no.
17:05Um again, can you give me a year? I
17:08mean, this is like 2009. She died in
17:121986. Yeah, I think it was 86. 1986.
17:15Okay.
17:16Um, like I said, I'm I'm faintly
17:19remembering that
17:22um I went to
17:23Hawaii with my friend Greg. Greg and I
17:26got certified for scuba
17:28diving. Um, and I'm thinking that John
17:31met us there, meaning Greg and I.
17:35Um, that could have been I got
17:40certified toward the end of 88 or I mean
17:4420 yeah 88 89
17:48um cuz I got reertified again and it had
17:51been like
17:52over 10 10 years. So I got reertified my
17:56husband and I got reertified.
17:59Um, and I'm pretty sure that John met us
18:03there. Um, again, I'd have to tell you
18:06what year it was. I'd have to look at my
18:08pictures. Um, you know, um, and other
18:12than that, I can't even say he may have
18:15called me, you know, at my home. Um, I
18:18may have called him. Um, I don't think
18:22he got together with our group. Um, I
18:25don't think after his wife's death. Uh
18:28even before I don't you know we went to
18:32weddings together. I you know did you
18:34I've got pictures I like I said I
18:36couldn't tell you years. It's been a
18:38million years ago after he after he got
18:42uh married or whatever. Were you were
18:43you dating anybody
18:46in particular? And that was what what
18:48year? 1986 you said I think he got
18:50married in around 8586 something like
18:52that. Were you seeing anyone seriously
18:54or?
18:56God, I couldn't say.
18:59Um, geez, I'm trying to think. I mean,
19:03you know, I dated a fireman. Um, what
19:06was his name? Mike Art. Um, and I'm
19:10trying to think. Was he LFD or He was
19:12LFD. Um, I'm trying to think when I went
19:16I probably met Mike. I went to
19:18Devincshire.
19:20Let's see. I left Hollywood in 80. I I
19:22worked Hollywood
19:2484 to 85 I think and then I went to
19:28Devonshire and that's when I met Mike
19:31um and some other
19:33firemen and what the station next door?
19:36No actually cuz I used to work Hollywood
19:38so I just wonder if it was the station
19:40No it was in when I worked Devincure I
19:42met Mike. Oh okay. All right. And I'm
19:45trying to think. I went to Devonure in '
19:4785. And I'm thinking
19:50that I would have met him probably
19:52sometime shortly after I went to
19:54Devonshire cuz I met him and his I
19:57actually met his buddies at a fire.
20:00Um and then Mike and I
20:03dated, you know, just really kind of
20:06casually. Um
20:09and we remain very I mean we remain good
20:12friends. Um you still in touch with him
20:14or Unfortunately, he passed away. Oh,
20:16really? He died in a um he had a car
20:19crash. Um he did race cars and um he
20:23went heading into a wall.
20:26I couldn't tell you what year that was.
20:28Um but he passed away. He was in a coma
20:31and they pulled the uh the plug, right?
20:33Seems like uh anyway. Um so, you know, I
20:39couldn't even tell you what what year.
20:41I'm thinking I went to Denver in ' 85
20:43and I know I met the guys because I it
20:44was kind of a funny incident of how I
20:46met them and that's how I remember it
20:48was sometime probably 85 right um you
20:52know if specifically I don't even know
20:54if they remember the other two are now
20:56married to somebody else cuz I kind
20:58of all three I mean did you kind of
21:00socialize like when you were out with
21:02Mike did those guys come out with you
21:03too was it kind of like did you do stuff
21:05with his friends or Well um there were
21:07three there was two firemen Eric and
21:09Gary um I met them first, then they
21:13introduced me to Mike. So, that's how I
21:15met Mike and Mike dated. Mike Mike and I
21:17dated. Mhm. So, um and and not I
21:20wouldn't even say I couldn't even tell
21:21you for how long because then it say we
21:23decided you know it wasn't working out
21:25and we'd be better friends and you know
21:28he introduced me I think to some other
21:31guy on that who now is on LAPD. Um,
21:36uh, Randy
21:39Cordobus. Um, I don't think he's a
21:42detective. He's got a twin brother who's
21:43on the fire department. That's how I met
21:45Randy. Um, because he had a twin
21:48brother, identical twin on the fire
21:50department. Okay. Um, and you and I
21:55dated him. When? I couldn't tell you. It
21:57was before he came on the job. Oh,
22:00before Randy came on the job. Yeah. Oh,
22:02okay. And that was um I I'm God, I'm
22:07trying to remember if Mike may
22:11have I'm trying to remember. Mike may
22:15have dated
22:16um a girl that he
22:19dated. Oh God, it sounds too weird.
22:22Um, Randy may have dated a gal that Mike
22:26was dating and that and then Mike Randy
22:30broke up with that gal. I couldn't even
22:32tell you the gal's name if I'm even
22:34thinking of the story right and then I
22:36started dating Randy. Yeah.
22:39I you know so again I mean not like I
22:43was a huge floozy or anything but no but
22:46you know I mean a lot of times right at
22:48least from my female partners that I've
22:50had you know it's hard dating guys that
22:52aren't involved in kind of our circle
22:54right because some a lot some guys are
22:55intimidated by you know women police
22:57officers yeah Randy was like an engineer
22:59at the time uh he was like a some kind
23:01of an engineer on a truck on a rig on a
23:04fire truck. No no um an engineer. Um,
23:06oh, a professional engineer. And then I
23:08think he lost a job and then came on on
23:10the department. I see. So, um, getting
23:13back to some stuff, as far as you
23:15recall, after John's wife,
23:18I did you start a relationship again
23:21with with John or dating casually or
23:24anything like that? Like I
23:27said, he met Greg and I in Hawaii. Okay.
23:31Um,
23:34that was something you guys kind of
23:35planned together like go as a group or
23:37you you ran into him or No, I I think
23:40that obviously I must have talked to him
23:43and I said, "Hey, I'm going to Hawaii
23:46with my buddy Greg. We're we're sc we're
23:48scuba we just got certified scuba
23:50diving. Um uh we're going to be in
23:53Hawaii. Hey, if you want to come and
23:54join us, come join us." Right. And I I
23:57think that's what it was. Um, I I may
24:00have asked some other people to as well.
24:02Um, you know, uh, what island did we go
24:07to? I think the Big Island and Kauaii.
24:10He either met us on the Big Island or
24:12Kawaii. I'm thinking of SC. Greg and I
24:15might have scuba dived a lot in on the
24:17Big Island as well as Kauaii. I'm I I
24:21don't remember which island. Again, I'd
24:22have to look at my pictures. Um, I
24:25traveled a lot um, on my vacations. I
24:28mean, I was always gone for at least a
24:29month. Um, and I would go places and I
24:33would either run into people or, you
24:36know, you know, meet people. Um, and
24:40Greg, this Greg we're talking about, he
24:43was like someone you were dating or just
24:46a buddy or No, you know what? I would I
24:48would say we started out um probably
24:52just buddies. Um, and either I was with
24:56somebody or he was with somebody, but it
24:58was all we it was kind of like we ended
25:00up just kind of being like brother and
25:01sister.
25:02Um, and maybe he wanted something more,
25:05but um, you know, it just it never, you
25:08know, worked out, but we we we did
25:10things together. Um, you know, I
25:13consider them I've probably known
25:16him, let's see, I've been on the job
25:18almost 26 years. I've probably known him
25:20going 23 24 years. Um, does he still
25:24talk to him? Oh, yeah. He's dying of
25:26liver cancer right now. Yeah. Yeah. I'm
25:28sorry. Yeah. So, um, so, you know, I I
25:32consider him a good friend. Um, you
25:35know,
25:38um, you know, I don't know what to tell
25:40you on that. Um, I mean, when when you
25:42heard about uh John's wife being killed,
25:45I mean, what was your what was your
25:47reaction? I mean, did you thought you
25:49heard about it what through a friend or
25:51in a bulletin or something? you're a
25:52friend or a bulletin. Um I obviously I
25:54mean I called I called the family. Um I
25:57I called maybe some of his friends that
25:59that that I knew and I mean obviously it
26:01shocked you if you're if I heard it at
26:02work, you know. Um which I may have I I
26:05faintly remember a bulletin going
26:07around. Um either that or somebody
26:10called me. I I also don't remember.
26:12Right. Um uh and then I called probably
26:15called his family. um called uh I don't
26:20initially I can't say if I initially
26:22spoke to him or not. I honestly don't
26:24remember. I may have said to somebody,
26:27"Hey, have him call me if he wants to
26:29talk." And then he may have done that.
26:31Uhhuh. Um you know, um
26:36do you know what the circumstances were
26:38regarding her death?
26:42Jeez, let me think back.
26:45Um, jeez. I don't know if it was, you
26:49know, if it was a burglary or something.
26:52Uh, yeah. It's I mean, it's been so many
26:54years. I I mean, I can faintly think
26:56that I may have saw a flyer. Yeah. Uh
26:58may have had her picture on it, you
27:01know. Um, I may That's why I say if
27:04somebody had called me, I may not have
27:06known what her last name was. I may
27:08have. I mean, maybe if you told me, I
27:10would remember it. Um, do you remember
27:12her first name?
27:14Shelly um
27:17Sherry I don't know something maybe you
27:20know um like I said it's been so many
27:22years and um from all the years as far
27:26as you can remember you don't do you
27:28remember ever talking to her just well
27:30as I said earlier you know I I mean I
27:34may have you know I may have talked to
27:36her um I it sound I you know you
27:40mentioned a hospital maybe you may have
27:42talked to her at a hospital.
27:44Yeah. Um, yeah, I may have, you know,
27:48I'm I'm thinking back now you guys are
27:49bringing up all these old memories. No,
27:51I kind of dust off the conversation, you
27:52know. I mean, jeez.
27:56Um, I'm thinking
27:59that because I mean, we would date, he
28:02would date other people, I would date
28:03other people. Mh. And I think, you
28:07know, at one point, I mean, he may have
28:10been dating her or I don't know, maybe
28:13he was married. I don't even remember.
28:15And I'm like, you know what? Why are you
28:17calling me if you're either dating her
28:20or living with her or married to her? I
28:21I cuz I honestly don't remember the time
28:22frame. Um, and I'm like, come on, knock
28:24it off. And I'm And now I'm thinking I
28:26may I may have gone to her and say, hey,
28:28you know what? You know what? Is he
28:30dating you? He's He's bothering me. Um,
28:33and so I'm thinking that we had a
28:34conversation about that.
28:36Um, one or two maybe. I, you know, it
28:41could have been three. I don't want to
28:42say I had three conversations with her
28:44like at her work or at their at their
28:46house or No, I'm thinking that I, you
28:49know, he obviously must have told me
28:50where she worked. I'm thinking it was a
28:53hospital somewhere in LA. And I just I
28:56mean, I could have been again, what year
28:59was that? Where was I working?
29:07Um, you know, I don't I don't I'm trying
29:09to think of where I when did you say
29:11they got married?
29:13I don't know. I think it was like in '
29:1685 or '86 or something like that. Yeah,
29:19we we we we just kind of picked this up.
29:21We, you know, we don't know a lot about
29:23it.
29:31I mean, I could have been working in
29:32Hollywood, it sounds like, if if that's
29:34where I was working. Um, so I could have
29:37said, "Okay, well, you know," and I went
29:38and talked to her. Um, and just said,
29:40"Hey, you know what? You know, if he's
29:43dating you, he's he's keeps calling me.
29:46Why don't you tell him to knock it off
29:47or whatever?" And you know, because I
29:49probably would have told him to knock it
29:50off. Who would have told John? Oh, yeah.
29:53I mean, I would have said, "Hey, you
29:54know, and again, but you wanted to tell
29:57her, too. You wanted them both to know."
29:59Yeah. I mean, you know, if you get
30:00you're getting her called and I'm trying
30:03I'm faintly remembering uh when Scott
30:07moved in with me in
30:091993, sometime in '93, cuz I met Scott
30:12in in
30:14in April of '92. I was teaching DARE up
30:17in Oregon. Mhm. Um and
30:22um he moved down. In fact, he may have
30:26moved down in '92. 92 or 93. There was a
30:29big earthquake. No. When was the big
30:31earthquake? No, 94. 94. Yeah.
30:36I think Scott might have moved into 93.
30:39Sometime in
30:4093. Excuse me. Um I haven't had my
30:44breakfast yet. Um and so
30:48Um, excuse me. Um, and so I faintly
30:53recall that John may have called a few
30:55times and I'm like, "Hey, you know, I've
30:58got," he goes, "Can you I like you, can
31:00you talk or something?" I'm like, you
31:01know, "No, I can't talk. I've got, you
31:02know, I'm living with somebody." Right.
31:04You know, and and that could have been a
31:05few times. It could have been once,
31:07could have been twice, could have been
31:08three times. I don't know, you know. Um,
31:11that's during the period of time of the
31:12earthquake that you're Well, no,
31:14probably probably after Scott moved in.
31:16I think I met Scott in April of '92. Oh,
31:19okay. Right before April of '92 cuz I
31:21was I I stopped teaching DARE
31:29think I stopped teaching Dare sometime
31:31in '92. Mhm. Um,
31:35and when you and when you say that you
31:37may have um, you know, that you talked
31:39to his wife, said, "Hey," or, you know,
31:42I don't know if it was I guess it wasn't
31:43his wife at that time, girlfriend or
31:44whatever. And yeah, I don't know if it
31:45was his wife or I I I mean, quite
31:47honestly, I don't even remember when you
31:48said like, "Hey, you know, he's calling
31:50me. He needs to knock it off or what
31:51have you." I mean, was that was that
31:52civil? Was there I mean, oh, yeah. No,
31:54there was not I don't think there was
31:55anything. It was the conversation
31:57lasted a few minutes. I can't even
31:59remember. And what is it like, you know,
32:00we went out to lunch or anything, right?
32:01But there was no like arguments or
32:03fights or it didn't get heated or
32:05anything like that. Not that I recall.
32:07No. I mean, I would think that would
32:09stand out. I would think. Now, again,
32:11that's not standing out in my mind.
32:14Um, you know,
32:17so you didn't have any problems with her
32:18then? You didn't have any issues with
32:20her? No. I mean, but let me let me ask
32:22you, seems like you didn't have any
32:24issue. Now, did she have an issue with
32:27you as far as because now you're telling
32:29her, "Hey, you know, tell him to stop
32:31calling now." You know, she's like,
32:32"Hey, you know, you figure she'd be
32:34threatened by you?" You know, I've I
32:37don't know. I mean, from what you
32:39remember as far as when you talked to
32:40her, maybe you didn't take it as
32:42serious, but maybe, you know, did she
32:44maybe she was bugging? You mean like was
32:45she throwing things at me or something?
32:47Or no, just, you know, as far as you're
32:49trying to explain like, "Hey, stop
32:51calling me, you know, stop playing
32:52games." You know, I I tell
32:54you if the conversation I couldn't even
32:56tell you how long the conversation if
32:58you said did it last a half an hour, did
33:00it last 3 minutes? Did it last 20
33:01minutes? I can't even remember. It's
33:03been so long ago, you know. Um you just
33:06remember talking to her, telling her.
33:07Yeah. And that's why you said how many
33:08times you talked to her. I don't know
33:09how many times I talked to her. Maybe it
33:11was once, maybe it was twice, maybe it
33:12was three times, you know. I I honestly
33:15don't know. Um I I don't know what year
33:17it was. Um, if you if he said, "I met
33:21her in such and such year." I'd go,
33:22"Okay." Well, I don't even know what
33:24year he met her. Um, I graduated from,
33:27you see, in 1982. Okay. I graduated in '
33:3182. Like I said, I don't know if he
33:33graduated. I know he was a little older
33:36than I was. So, I don't know if he
33:38graduated a year before or two years
33:39before because people are on different
33:41um either on the four-year program or
33:43the 5-year program. Um, what year did
33:46you come on the job? 83. Oh, so almost
33:50pretty much immediately after you got
33:51out of school.
33:53Yeah, I worked at a law firm for a year.
33:56Um, and then came on the job. But
33:59anyway, in regards to seeing him, not
34:02seeing him, we went to friends weddings
34:04that were, you know, from UCLA. Um, I
34:08may have gone to some of his friends
34:10weddings from where he worked. Um, he
34:13may have gone to things with me, you
34:15know.
34:17Um, you know, I mean, I I don't know how
34:20many times we went to do things, you
34:22know, or didn't do things, right? Like I
34:25said, his sister, um, um, I know his
34:28sister, uh, his brother, his sister, I
34:32know, stayed at my
34:34townhouse a number of times. I couldn't
34:36tell you how many times, right? Um, I
34:39would watch his brother, you know,
34:41shoot, uh, take pictures at a basketball
34:43game or or two. Where was your townhouse
34:45at? In Granada Hills. Um, below the
34:49Odyssey. I don't know. Oh, I'm sorry.
34:51The 405 and the five. Um, the 405. The
34:55the 405 turns into five, the 118. Um,
34:58they they came down in the earthquake.
35:00Okay. So, Okay. And you're saying when
35:04you went to see her, do you would you
35:07remember if it was at her house or at
35:10the place she worked at?
35:13No, I'm thinking that I'm thinking that
35:15it was
35:16probably for some reason I want to say
35:18that the hospital seemed that, you know,
35:21if you say he got married in 85 or
35:24something, I'm thinking that, you know,
35:26maybe the hospital was on my way to work
35:28in Hollywood. I mean, that's kind of
35:31sounding familiar. Um, would you have
35:34gone on duty? Oh, no. I'm I'm sure I
35:37wouldn't have. I No, I'm I'm pretty good
35:39about not doing stuff, you know. I mean,
35:41now I'm not saying that, you know, you
35:43haven't done stuff on duty, but I I I
35:46would have I mean, I would have been
35:47working with somebody. Oh, yeah. You
35:49know, so I wouldn't I wouldn't think I
35:52mean, I try to avoid doing stuff on
35:53duty. So, so you would have gone if it
35:57was in route to work, you more than
35:58likely you would have gone to her work
36:00and had this discussion with her. I
36:02mean, that's sounding familiar. I mean,
36:04that's now that you guys are bringing
36:05this stuff up. Um, I mean, it sound that
36:08sounds familiar. Um, but again, I mean,
36:11you
36:12know, what's I mean, what's this got to
36:14do with me dating him and, you know, her
36:16getting killed? I mean, I I don't, you
36:19know, I don't have anything to do with
36:20it. And you got something that's
36:23somebody said, you know, whatever. I
36:25mean, well, like we said, we we just
36:26literally got this the other day and and
36:28you're going through it. Yeah. And you
36:30see, you saw me say, "Oh, it's Nick's
36:31next door." Right. And and so, you know,
36:33I mean, obviously, it's like we
36:35recognize the name. We know, you know,
36:36you work next door to us and so we're
36:38trying to get some background. We're
36:39trying to figure this out. I mean, this
36:40is from a long time ago. Oh, I know. You
36:42know, and and things have been kind of
36:44slow for us. And so, you know, Chief
36:45Beck has said, "Hey, you know, I want
36:47you guys working. I don't want you just
36:48sitting around reading the paper." So,
36:50he's kind of pushing some older cases
36:51out even to the guys that work active
36:53cases because, you know, and so we see
36:54this and we're just like, "Oh, you know,
36:56we want to talk to you about it." But,
36:57of course, the only reason we did it
36:58here is because we're getting into some
37:00pretty personal stuff in your
37:01relationship. You know, my my husband's
37:02on the job and we've been married. You
37:04know, we don't want to take the risk. We
37:05don't want to take the risk. We're in
37:06one of those interview rooms and even
37:07when the door closed, someone's going to
37:08get supplies and see us on a monitor
37:10here or whatever. I appreciate it. I
37:11mean, I appreciate like I said, that's
37:13where people go when there's orals, you
37:14know, when they're doing orals. Guys
37:15will go in there and try and watch,
37:16like, oh, what are the answers to the
37:17questions, you know? I didn't know that.
37:18Yeah. So, so we just we just want to
37:20afford you the most privacy and
37:21confidentiality we could. No, I
37:23appreciate and like I said, I mean, this
37:25goes way back and I mean, it was very
37:27sad, you know, obviously
37:30um I I haven't I you know, I when we
37:34were in college, some of us would go
37:36down to his house in San Diego. I I went
37:38down to his house with him, you know, um
37:41with with him. And I know I I'm trying
37:43to think of some other people that may
37:44have gone down. Is that where he grew
37:45up? Is down there? Yeah, down in San
37:47Diego. Okay. Um I know his dad's was a
37:49professor at San Diego State. I don't
37:51know if he still is. Mhm. Um I don't
37:54know what happened to his sister. Don't
37:56know what happened to his brother.
37:58Um you know, I'm sure his dad's probably
38:01retired by now. He was I think older. Um
38:05even back then, right? Um and I I can't
38:09even tell you the last time I had any
38:11contact with any of them. It's been so
38:13long. Did he tell you what happened?
38:14Like what he heard from the detectives
38:16or the police or
38:19You know what? He may have
38:22um for some reason I'm thinking that I
38:27mean again this is
38:32like drugs or something. I mean I think
38:35I faintly remember him mentioning
38:38something maybe about cocaine
38:41um that she was involved with that. You
38:44know, I don't know that he said she was
38:46involved or they thought she, you know,
38:48again, it's been so long. I, you know,
38:50he could have mentioned, he could have
38:52told me the whole story of what
38:53happened. And I mean, like I said, I'm
38:55faintly remember either between him or
38:58the flyer. Um, that there was some kind
39:01of a burglary.
39:04Um, you know, let me ask it. Did the
39:07detectives ever reach out to you? No. No
39:10one's ever talked to me. I don't think
39:11anybody ever talked to me about about
39:13him. Um, it seems like back Well, I I
39:18take I'm thinking that I did talk to a
39:22detective. Um,
39:25God Well, what division was it in Van
39:29Ice?
39:32And where was I working?
39:35Um, 1986.
39:37I would have been working Devonshire.
39:41You know, I'm thinking that I did speak
39:43to somebody. Oh, really? I couldn't tell
39:46you who it was because it doesn't it
39:48doesn't say anything. Probably on the
39:49phone. Okay. Um would it have been
39:52somebody in regards to this or just
39:54Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Um
39:58I don't even know if you said a name if
39:59I would remember it because I worked Van
40:01Ice for a while. Oh, you did? Yeah, I
40:04worked um detectives patrol. No, worked
40:06detectives. Uhhuh.
40:08Um when did I go to Van
40:11Ice? I worked Devonshire till 88. Then I
40:15went to DAR till
40:1792. I worked twice at Van Ice. Um both
40:21as a detective.
40:26Yeah. Sometime in the '9s.
40:32Um, yeah. I I know before I busted my
40:36leg up, I was there in '98 cuz that year
40:39sticks out because I had a really bad
40:40leg injury.
40:42Um, and I was there prior to that, but I
40:45couldn't tell you what year. It was just
40:47a few years. I made detective I think in
40:5193 93. So,
40:55um, I was at Van Eis and then I went
40:58back and then I had a leg injury and
41:00then they transferred me to Devonshire
41:01cuz I couldn't drive. Mhm. I couldn't
41:03drive very far with the my bad leg
41:05injury. So, um, but yeah, I I I think I
41:10talked to somebody. Um, remember would
41:13you remember any of the conversation as
41:15far as what they were looking for?
41:19Couldn't say. I mean, they may have told
41:20me. I said, "Hey, you know, I went to
41:23school with him. Um, I either they
41:25either somebody called me or I saw the
41:27fly. I may have seen the flyer at that
41:29point and I called up. If if someone's
41:31name was on the flyer, I may have called
41:33to speak to them." I said, "Hey, if
41:34there's anything I can do, you know, um,
41:37call me. This is where I work. You know,
41:40I went to uh, you know, uh, school with
41:42them." Um,
41:46couldn't say I couldn't tell you who it
41:48was.
41:49But you do remember that that someone
41:51you think reached out to
41:52you. You mean a detective? Yeah. Called
41:55you up and talked to you or I called
41:57them. One of the two. But yeah, I you
42:00know I I remember talking to somebody
42:03but I'm thinking it was a
42:06man. I'm sure there's probably more men
42:08back
42:09then. But um so again that's I mean
42:15that's really all I can remember about
42:17that.
42:18Yeah. Let me get back uh to as far as
42:22when you said that uh John was calling
42:25you to to see you and during that time
42:28you felt that he was was felt he was
42:30either seeing her. Was he engaged or
42:32married? Did did you know? Could say you
42:35remember you know I don't know. Uhhuh.
42:37Um would he ever Well, let's see. My
42:40husband did it ever appear? No. No. No.
42:42That would have been Scott moved in 93.
42:46So that would have been you said ' 86 or
42:48' 85 or something. Scott, your only
42:49husband. You've never been married? No,
42:51never been. I got married in I think 96.
42:53Oh, no. I No, I got married in 96, but
42:56he moved in in 93. Mhm. But, uh, during
43:01that time that you were seeing John, uh,
43:03you know, was he acting kind of, you
43:05know, kind of squirrely or kind of
43:06sneaking around when he'd hook up with
43:08you or anything like that? Does it make
43:10you think, hey, yeah, he probably was. I
43:13mean I mean cuz from the impression I
43:16get you've known him a long time. Well,
43:18let's see from what early I met him in
43:2078. No, I I met him in school. I started
43:23UCLA in 78. Um so you know him
43:26well during that period of time. Yeah. I
43:30mean was he acting
43:32squirrely? You know I don't even
43:35remember where he was living then. You
43:37know I Well, after I don't Well, let me
43:40ask you. After he hooked up with uh if
43:42he was living on Rosco or wherever else
43:44he was living, right? Well, after he
43:46hooked up with uh with Sherry, do you
43:50know uh where they were living? No, you
43:53asked me that already. Uhhuh. And I
43:54said, well, obviously they were living
43:55in Van I division. Yeah.
43:59Um I may have known. I mean I you know
44:02again I you know did he ever give me the
44:05address? Maybe. You know I don't
44:08remember. I mean, I don't know
44:11cuz the only reason I'm asking you again
44:13is because as we've been talking, I know
44:14some stuff has come to you cuz you're
44:16like, "Oh, see, you know, so that's why
44:19I'm asking if you ever been to the
44:20house." I mean, when you said Van Eyes
44:23division, you know, I'm
44:29just I'm sure he could have told me. I
44:31mean, he could have told me. He could
44:32have told me where he lived. Um,
44:37do you ever have gone there? I don't
44:40think I've ever gone there. That's what
44:41I'm saying. I don't I don't want to say
44:43no, I've never gone there and then you
44:44say, "Oh, I was at a party." I cuz I I I
44:47don't, you know, I don't think so. Yeah.
44:50Um, like I said, we've got these
44:52friends. We have different We have
44:54parties. Um, my house, their house. I I
44:59just don't think John ever came to
45:02again, you know, at one point because we
45:05we knew people from school together. I
45:08knew different people. He knew different
45:10people. I knew people that he knew from
45:11his work um you know that lived in the
45:14valley.
45:16Um you know,
45:19so as far as for social events or
45:21anything, I mean it's I mean you're not
45:24sure if you ever been to the house cuz
45:31But it's safe to say that would have
45:32been the only time like for something
45:34social.
45:36Yeah. If I went there for something
45:37social. Yeah. I mean, because I know you
45:40you went to talk to her at at the
45:42hospital uh regarding this issue with
45:45John to, you know, kind of like, hey,
45:48you know, what's going to happen here
45:49with this thing? But would this ever
45:51have followed up to her house when you
45:53went to talk to her to say, hey, you
45:54know what? I I don't even know that I
45:57knew where they lived. I You know,
45:59that's what I'm saying. I don't If I
46:00knew where they lived and I'd been
46:02there, if it was for something social,
46:04I' I would I'm I'm And I can't see how
46:07many times I I saw her face to face. You
46:09know, he lived on Rosco. Did I ever see
46:11her there? I don't know. I mean, I may
46:14have seen her at his apartment on Rosco.
46:16Mhm. I may have met her
46:19there. You know, I I mean, but you
46:23didn't have any issues with her, right?
46:25No, I mean, you know, obviously if he
46:28was dating me and dating her, I probably
46:30said, "Hey, pick." Or something, you
46:31know, you know, back then.
46:34Um, I can't say that we ever screamed or
46:38Yeah. You know, it's I mean, he was a
46:40pretty mellow guy, you know. Um, I think
46:44I was pretty mellow. I I don't I don't
46:46think we had some big huge blowup to say
46:49you know why we stopped dating or you
46:51know and I even think that when I was
46:53dating him I was probably like I said I
46:56was probably going out with other guys
46:57and he was probably going out with other
46:59girls you know I don't know I mean would
47:02you remember if she snapped on you and
47:04just like hey man it's my man you know
47:06you get leave him alone you know blah
47:08blah blah that kind of stuff you know
47:11then would you remember an incident like
47:13that I mean cuz that would be like what
47:14Well, you know, and maybe that happened.
47:16I
47:18mean, gosh, I you know, it's been so
47:22long ago. I, you know, I just I mean,
47:24that's not ringing a bell. Um, I mean,
47:28because the times I've seen you around
47:29at our office. I'm crazy, you know, but
47:31you're always kind of like real I mean,
47:34you seem kind of bubbly. Oh, I'm you
47:36people think I'm really hyper. Um, but I
47:39can I mean I can get I can get upset,
47:42you know, and and then I forget 5
47:44seconds later, you know, you know how
47:45guys raz you and you go, "Ah, you know,
47:49um I mean I've done that in the office,
47:51you know, but it's like and then I'm,
47:53you know, and then I'm, you know, uh,
47:56you know, I mean, water under the
47:58bridge. Yeah. I mean, it's like people
47:59think I'm crazy and then they think I'm
48:01crazy at home and I'm, you know, more
48:03I'm I'm a hyper person at work. I'm, you
48:06know, I enjoy my job. I get excited. I,
48:08you know, um I I enjoy the job. I've
48:12always enjoyed the job. Um Well, you got
48:14a good gig. So, you know, um so, you
48:19know, I you know, I don't know. It's
48:21like, like I said, this stuff's been so
48:23long ago. Um you know, I'm sure as soon
48:26as I walk out of here, I'll go, "Oh,
48:27shoot. I 25 things I'll remember." Um
48:30you know, but you'll call us or I mean,
48:32you'll just come over to our desk and
48:33tell us. I mean, I don't know what else
48:35you need to know. Like I said, you know,
48:37we we knew friends together. A lot of
48:39the friends that, you know, that we
48:41socialized in the dorms, I would say, I
48:44mean, there was a group of us that
48:47um we were all really close. I mean,
48:49even this one guy, I was thinking of,
48:50you know, um Diana Basta. We were all
48:53really close. I haven't talked to her in
48:55a million years. Um Diana Basta being a
48:58friend of you and John's or Yeah, we all
49:00lived on the dorms on the dorms
49:02together. I don't know if she lived on
49:03the same we I'm trying to think. I think
49:06I know John lived on our floor because
49:08his roommate was Dave Newman. Dave
49:10Newman now is a big huge big shot
49:13whatever movie producer, director,
49:15something I don't know. Um and that was
49:17John's roommate. Yeah. And then the guys
49:20that lived across from me, um Jim Jascal
49:23and
49:25Roy Sakaboo Sakaboo, something like
49:27that. Um they lived across from me. Um,
49:30Diana
49:32Basta, I don't know if she lived on our
49:35floor. Maybe she was the
49:36RA. Um, Diane Sherman. Um, cuz I still
49:41remain friends with Diane Sherman. Um,
49:44not that I'm not friends with the other
49:45people. I just don't see them. Um, a gal
49:49named
49:50Smeita. Um,
49:54Sally, Kathleen, you know. So, we we
49:58were all on the floor. I mean, some of
49:59them were athletes, some of them
50:01weren't. You know, I said John played
50:02basketball, his brother played
50:03basketball, I played basketball at UCLA
50:05for two years. Um, one of the girls swam
50:08on the team, one was on the crew team.
50:10So, we all did stuff together. Um, and
50:12then I'd say after we all graduated, um,
50:14we went to weddings, you know, I went to
50:16weddings. Um,
50:18uh, but Sherry wasn't part of this
50:21circle. No, I don't even know how he how
50:24he met her. I don't even know where I
50:26mean, I don't know where he met her
50:27from. I don't even know. He told me
50:28where he met her from. I mean, he may
50:30have told me. I, you know, that's not
50:32ringing a bell.
50:34Um, and there was lots I mean, you know,
50:36there's
50:37just there was other people that knew
50:39other people, um, you know, that were
50:42friends of everybody's
50:45um, you know,
50:48um, I mean, I don't know what else to
50:50tell you. Well, one of the concerns I
50:51had is looking at some of the notes is
50:53uh some of Sherry's friends said that
50:57you and her were having a problem
50:59because of the John situation.
51:05Well, number one, I don't know who her
51:07friends are. Um because again, I don't I
51:11don't recall if he did tell me where he
51:13met
51:13her. I don't know even who these friends
51:16are. a problem. Like I said, if I spoke
51:19to her, I mean, I'll go on as far on as
51:22a limb, and I don't even want to say I
51:24spoke to her five times because that's
51:25probably not even true. I I I can't even
51:28remember.
51:29Um, again, did I meet him at her plate
51:32when he, you know, he lived on Rosco for
51:33I think quite a while, but I couldn't
51:36tell you how long he lived on Rosco. And
51:37the only reason why I remember the place
51:39now is because it's like a huge dope
51:41dope place now where they, you know, it
51:43may have been back then, but you know,
51:45maybe we'd have known back then. Um, I
51:48could have met her there. I could have,
51:49you know,
51:53you know, I don't even know that I met
51:55any of their friends. I I don't I I I
51:59can't say that. I don't know that that's
52:01a true statement. Well, that's what I'm
52:02reading is that you guys had problems
52:05with each other and words are being
52:06exchanged and it's all relating to John.
52:11You know what? I I I I just I can't say.
52:15You can't say? No. I That doesn't even
52:17ring a bell. I mean I mean it seemed
52:19like Yeah. You would recall something if
52:20somebody's going off on you, right? I
52:22would think. I mean I would think I
52:25would think. Yeah. cuz it's But that's I
52:29you know cuz it seems like your
52:30relationship with John was kind of I
52:35mean you've known each other for a lot
52:36of years. Yeah. It was just kind of it
52:38was like
52:41but it doesn't seem to me from what
52:42you're telling me I mean we were never
52:43engaged. I mean it wasn't like we were
52:45planning to get married. Um you know it
52:48was like it it
52:50was I don't know how to describe it. I
52:53mean, would you say there wasn't a lot
52:55of drama in this relationship? Oh, no. I
52:57don't think there was drama. Okay. Yeah.
52:59I mean, that's why I'm asking as far as
53:01what the friends are saying in regards
53:03to this, you know, the problems that
53:05they're saying you were having with with
53:07Sherry.
53:08I mean, it seems like the relationship
53:10is just going on even plain. That just I
53:13I that I don't have a recollection of
53:14that at all. No. No. And cuz from what
53:17you're telling me is when you guys met
53:18at the hospital,
53:21uh I mean you guys talked, but it wasn't
53:23from what you recall confrontational. I
53:25think so from either side. No, I I mean
53:29I'm trying to, you know, turn my memory
53:31back, you know, and I'm trying I can't
53:33even can't even picture the, you know,
53:36picture the the conversation. I mean, I
53:38can't even picture the conversation.
53:40Well, let me ask you. I mean at the
53:41hospital it never got to the point where
53:42people are going, "Hey, hey, you know,
53:44go to everybody go to your own culinary
53:46type of thing." I don't think so.
53:47Nothing like that. I don't think so. I
53:49mean, I really don't. I mean, if you you
53:51know, if you say people said that,
53:53that's not ringing a bell to me at all.
53:55I mean, it's not I mean, that that's not
53:57ringing a bell. Was there ever a time
53:59when you and Sher were talking and John
54:01had to maybe go like get you guys relax,
54:04you know, or anything like that? I think
54:07so. about, you know, ever going to a
54:10house and having a dispute like that.
54:13You know, I'm
54:15just if I met her ever at his apartment,
54:19maybe I mean, we could have met I could
54:21have met at her apartment. I'm thinking
54:23that the hospital thing that sounds
54:26familiar that I I met her
54:30there. I just can't say that I've ever
54:33again, was I there with other people? I
54:36don't I I it I don't know. Um I don't
54:39think I ever met her there or him there.
54:43Um meaning one or the other. I don't
54:46think so. I really I just I can't I
54:50don't think so cuz I mean I know the way
54:51my wife is at our house, she wouldn't
54:53want my own girlfriends there, you know.
54:55So, I don't know if maybe she had the
54:57same mentality towards you. If as far as
55:00you ever being there or being welcome
55:02there, you know, because it's You know
55:04what? If somebody said I was there when
55:06they were there, then that's possible,
55:08but I just I I don't recall. I mean, I
55:11don't think so. I don't I It's not
55:13sounding familiar. Yeah. Cuz I guess
55:16basically what I'm asking is, you know,
55:17were you ever welcomed to the house?
55:18Like, you know, hey Oh, come over. Yeah,
55:20come on over. We're having a barbecue,
55:22you
55:23know, a dinner party, Christmas party,
55:26whatever. I don't know. I'm just trying
55:29to think,
55:32you know, like I said, because there was
55:34so many of us that the two Dian's, um,
55:38Jim Jascal, Roy, um, Smeita, this gal,
55:41Smeita, another friend of ours, Beth, I
55:44she pass seems like everybody I know
55:47pass is passing away. Um, she passed
55:49away. she was a child diabetic and and
55:52got very ill. Um, we would all
55:54socialize. Um, like I said, I don't
55:57think John ever It's hard. I don't want
55:59to say he never socialized with us.
56:03Um, you know, it it's been I I'd have to
56:06go almost go back and look at pictures
56:08because I take pictures. I mean, I
56:09usually when I have I go to functions, I
56:12have 10,000 pictures. Okay. I'm a
56:14picture nut.
56:17Let me ask. When you were seeing John,
56:19would you I take it he would pick you up
56:21in his car, you go in her, you know,
56:23your car, things of that nature when you
56:25guys would go out.
56:27Well, yeah. I mean, do you remember what
56:29he what he drove?
56:33Well, I know at one time he drove either
56:34a 240 or 260Z.
56:38Any other cars that stand out in your
56:39mind?
56:49[Music]
56:52I don't know how long he drove that 240
56:54or 260Z for. Um, and the only reason I
56:57say that is cuz I think I may have a
57:00picture of it. Um, with him in it. Um,
57:05what kind of car did you have back then?
57:08Let's see. What year? Or are you like
57:11one of those young cops that like, "Oh,
57:12I got a paycheck and bought a new car."
57:14No, no, no. I've only had like a few
57:16cars in my whole life. So, what' you
57:17have when you came on the job?
57:22Okay. Well, my first car was a 68
57:26Chevel. 68
57:29Chevel. And then I
57:32had a
57:38Toyota some kind of a Toyota
57:42um hatchback, but I forget what the name
57:44of it was. Um like a Corolla or Tursel
57:49or Tursel. Something like that. Tel.
57:51Yeah. And then I had my truck. Do you
57:54ever have any problems with your cars?
57:58Like what? Just anything in general. Car
58:01wrecks, anything stolen? Yeah. No, my
58:04car has never been stolen. Oh, no.
58:07Crashed, hit and run. Um
58:13um hit I mean my tcel was hit and run.
58:16Again, I got I got pictures of the hit
58:18and runs. Um and I don't think any my
58:20cars had ever been stolen.
58:22No, my cars haven't been
58:25stolen. Broken
58:28into. Um, none of that, huh? Oh, yeah.
58:31They My cars have been broken into.
58:35Um, you know, but no cars have ever been
58:39stolen.
58:42Mhm. How long? Well, when Tell me about
58:44this car getting broken into. Well, my
58:47car has been broken into several times.
58:49Oh,
58:50really? Did you ever lose anything or?
58:54Yeah, now that you mention it, let's
58:58see. I had a gun that was stolen.
59:02Um, I had other stuff that was stolen.
59:04Not a duty gun, was it? No. That's good.
59:08Um, has it ever recovered? I don't No.
59:11No. I don't think so. Not that I know
59:13of. Never been notified. No. Car's been
59:16broken
59:17into Yeah. several times. Where did that
59:20happen? when your gun was taken.
59:27Trying to remember.
59:30I'm sure you guys must know.
59:34Um cuz my car was broken into in
59:40Ventura. I think in Santa Monica. I have
59:43relatives that live in Santa Monica and
59:44Venice. Um who lives there? My uncle.
59:48Well, I I had several uncles.
59:53Um, yeah. Could have been Santa Monica.
59:56Um, Venice. My My car's broken into in
1:00:00Ventura before.
1:00:02So, is your mom still around or Mhm.
1:00:05Yeah. Your dad? Yeah. But I don't really
1:00:09have much of a relationship with my dad.
1:00:13So, I couldn't tell you where he lives
1:00:15if you're if you want to know. Oh,
1:00:16really?
1:00:18No. Yeah, I couldn't tell you.
1:00:22Well, like I said, as we were looking at
1:00:24the case and, you know, we had read the
1:00:26notes as far as from uh Sherry's friend
1:00:30saying you you guys had problems or
1:00:33words, they got
1:00:35heated. You know, the reason we're
1:00:36asking you is they had mentioned that an
1:00:39incident at her work had occurred and
1:00:41they've also told us that an incident at
1:00:43her house occurred.
1:00:47You know what? And this is at her house
1:00:49during the period of time that they're
1:00:51married.
1:00:54That's just not sounding familiar at
1:00:55all. I mean, I you know what
1:00:58I that's just not sound I again if
1:01:02someone says that I was at her house and
1:01:04I had an incident with
1:01:05her, you know, I that just doesn't sound
1:01:08I I you know, was John there? Did John
1:01:11say this happened? Because And other
1:01:13people were there. I just I don't
1:01:15recall. I mean, it just doesn't sound,
1:01:18you know, familiar. And this is an
1:01:20incident where you showed up. You
1:01:23weren't supposed to show up and things
1:01:26got heated at his house? Yeah.
1:01:31That I you know I that just doesn't
1:01:34sound familiar. I mean
1:01:36I you know it's not sounding familiar.
1:01:39So not at all. Now you're saying not
1:01:41familiar because it's just don't you
1:01:42remember or it's just you know what I
1:01:45would have then I'd have to say I don't
1:01:46remember because I don't remember I that
1:01:48doesn't sound familiar. I I mean would
1:01:51you remember something like that in your
1:01:52life if Well I would think but some sort
1:01:54of drama involving you know the other
1:01:57woman type of thing. Did you ever fight
1:01:59with her? You mean like we fought? Yeah.
1:02:01Did you ever duke it out with her? No, I
1:02:04don't think so. I mean you'd remember
1:02:06that, right? That would be pretty Yeah,
1:02:08I would think so. Oh, I mean pretty
1:02:10specific. Yeah, like I said, I mean
1:02:13obviously I you know I mean it just
1:02:16doesn't sound familiar. I mean I mean
1:02:20what are they saying? So I I I fought
1:02:21with her so so now I mean I I I get
1:02:24getting the jump the leap. Excuse me. I
1:02:28haven't eaten. Um they're saying okay I
1:02:30fought with her so I must have killed
1:02:31her. I mean come on. I mean that's you
1:02:35know I don't even know who these people
1:02:38are. I I can't even say I met any of
1:02:40these people. I mean, that's it's
1:02:41insane. I if it happened, I honestly
1:02:45don't remember it. That's all I can tell
1:02:47you. I mean I mean, but I don't know. I
1:02:50mean, would it be something you would
1:02:52remember? I mean, because it's I don't
1:02:54know if any other intense incidents in
1:02:56your life that have occurred, I mean,
1:02:58you'd recall those, right? I mean, well,
1:03:01like a use of force at work or car
1:03:03crash, something you're involved in,
1:03:04you'd be like, "Yeah, I remember." You
1:03:05would think I would remember. I mean, I
1:03:07would think if it was something that
1:03:09crazy. I mean, I I can't say you say how
1:03:11many fights have you gotten into, you
1:03:13know, in your life,
1:03:16you know? I mean, a few at work. Well,
1:03:18fights at work are kind of different
1:03:19because we've all had uses of force or
1:03:21whatever. But, I mean, I didn't even
1:03:22have even a lot of those. I mean, right.
1:03:23But, you know, if you're if you're
1:03:24actually, you know, I mean, I've played
1:03:26like if if Dan and I got mad at each
1:03:28other and we threw blows in the squad
1:03:29room. I mean, 20 years later, I would
1:03:31remember it. I mean, I would think I
1:03:33would remember it, but that's that's
1:03:34what I'm saying. That's not sounding
1:03:35familiar to me at all. I mean, I Let me
1:03:39ask you. I mean, throughout your
1:03:42life, you know, would you remember the
1:03:44number of fights you've been involved
1:03:46in? And I don't mean kind of like a bump
1:03:48or something, just a a physical fight
1:03:50where
1:03:51you everybody's hitting each other,
1:03:53scratching, pulling, you know, whatever.
1:03:55Maybe. I mean, I can't say I've been in
1:03:57a lot. You know, I played sports. Yeah.
1:04:00you know, you get into scuffles there
1:04:02and
1:04:04um and you recall some of those, right?
1:04:06I mean, just Yeah, I can recall some of
1:04:08them. Yeah. Games get in tabs. But like
1:04:10I said, this you saying this this is
1:04:12just not ringing a bell. I mean, but you
1:04:15know, I don't know what to tell you.
1:04:17It's it's just that's just not ringing a
1:04:19bell to me. It'd be something I would
1:04:22think I would remember. I mean, I'm If
1:04:25you're in I think so, too. If you're in
1:04:26this other girl's house and words are
1:04:28exchanged, I mean, you figure you'd
1:04:30recall. I would think, especially if it
1:04:33got physical, right? Well, I would
1:04:35think. And it's relating to, you know, a
1:04:38guy that you were dating, but she's
1:04:40dating now, you know, and it's just like
1:04:42a whole love triangle type of thing. I
1:04:44mean, you figure you remember that,
1:04:46right? Well, I would think.
1:04:50So,
1:04:52I mean, what does she tell you? Yeah.
1:04:55No, because I'm I mean I'm trying to I'm
1:04:57looking at the notes and these people
1:04:58are kind of I mean they're pointing the
1:05:01finger at you. Well, and I mean that's
1:05:06not ringing a bell to me. So, you know,
1:05:09I don't know. You know,
1:05:12it's I don't know what to tell you. I
1:05:14mean, that just sounds crazy to me.
1:05:15Yeah. So, you offh hand you don't recall
1:05:17ever going into her house and having
1:05:20words and
1:05:21physically, you know? No. attacking her,
1:05:24her attacking you. No, nothing like
1:05:26that. No, I mean that's No, nothing. No,
1:05:31no, not at all.
1:05:34Okay. Well, on some of the uh on this
1:05:37case, you know, this is it occurred in '
1:05:4086, right? Uh detectives processed the
1:05:44scene, things of that nature. Uh they
1:05:47did fingerprints and all that stuff. You
1:05:49know, well, you know, the standard
1:05:50stuff. I mean, you didn't been doing
1:05:51this longer than I have. Uh, well, I
1:05:53don't know about that. I got 26 years on
1:05:56going on 26 19. So,
1:06:01but you know, as they processed
1:06:03everything, uh, they did the best they
1:06:04could at that time and they looked at a
1:06:06lot of a lot of people and different
1:06:07things in this case. And you're right. I
1:06:10mean, if you guys are claiming that I'm
1:06:11a suspect, then, you know, I I got a
1:06:13problem with, you know, with that. Okay.
1:06:15Okay. So, you know, if you're if you're
1:06:19doing this as an interrogation, you're
1:06:20saying, "Hey, I'm a suspect." Well, now
1:06:22I got a problem with, you know, now
1:06:24you're accusing me of this. Is that what
1:06:26you're Is that what you're saying? We're
1:06:29trying to figure out what happened,
1:06:30Stephanie.
1:06:32Well, I'm I was, you know, I'm just
1:06:34saying, you know, would I need to get a
1:06:37lawyer if you're accusing me of, you
1:06:39know, you don't have to I mean, you
1:06:41know, you're here of your own free will.
1:06:42I mean, Well, I know, but I mean, you
1:06:44know, you're not you're not under
1:06:45arrest. You can walk out when you can
1:06:46leave whenever you like. Well, you know,
1:06:48I I'm trying to give you some background
1:06:50of, you know, how I knew him and now
1:06:52you're telling me that some somebody's
1:06:55saying that we had this big old fight
1:06:56and I don't even know what you're
1:06:57talking about. Um, you know, and I don't
1:07:00want to, you know, get in trouble for
1:07:01something that I didn't even do or
1:07:03you're saying I did something. Okay, we
1:07:06understand. I mean, how would you guys
1:07:08like it if the tables were turned on
1:07:10you? I understand. No, no, that's what
1:07:12we're telling you. I mean, you're free
1:07:13to go whenever you want. If if this
1:07:15makes you uncomfortable and you want to
1:07:16now you're starting to make me
1:07:17uncomfortable. The thing is I mean
1:07:20detectives did what they could at that
1:07:21time on the crime scene. Okay. And the
1:07:23burglary thing you're talking about that
1:07:25is an angle that they looked at. I go
1:07:27but now we're looking at everything else
1:07:28on the case cuz nobody was ever arrested
1:07:30on the case. I I don't know that or not.
1:07:34Okay. Now what we'd like to do is
1:07:38obviously you know about all the DNA
1:07:40stuff and things of the nature that you
1:07:41know gets done on cases nowadays. You
1:07:44know, if we asked you for a DNA swab,
1:07:46would you be willing to give us one?
1:07:48Maybe because now now now
1:07:52now I'm thinking I probably need to talk
1:07:54to a lawyer. Okay. I mean, well, I
1:07:58because I know how this stuff works.
1:07:59Okay, don't get me wrong. You're right.
1:08:01have been doing this a long time and and
1:08:02I wish I had been recording this because
1:08:04because now it sounds like, you know,
1:08:07there's, you know, you're selling these
1:08:09people saying I'm a fighting with her
1:08:10and now it sounds like you're trying to,
1:08:12you know, I've been doing this a long
1:08:14time. Yeah, we know. Okay. And and now
1:08:17it almost sounds like you're trying to
1:08:18pin something on me now. I I got that
1:08:20sense. Well, what it gets to on these on
1:08:22these cases, and you know it as well as
1:08:23I do, our job is to identify and
1:08:25eliminate something. I can't believe
1:08:26this. So, if we ask you to the point to
1:08:29give us a DNA sample, a bugal swab, so
1:08:32we can identify or eliminate you, would
1:08:35you be willing to do that? Maybe.
1:08:38Cuz I know this. I I I I That's where
1:08:40we're at, too. I mean, because right now
1:08:44from looking at the evidence, it's, you
1:08:45know, it's possible we may have some DNA
1:08:47at the location. That's great.
1:08:50And we're going to do what we can to try
1:08:53to put this thing together. and your
1:08:55name's in the book. These people are
1:08:57pointing at you for whatever reason. I
1:08:59don't know why. That's just crazy. I
1:09:01mean, that's just that's absolutely
1:09:03crazy. And it would be irresponsible on
1:09:06our part not to look at it. I know. You
1:09:08guys have to do your job. And I guess
1:09:10I'm going to have to contact somebody.
1:09:11So, that's fair. I mean, because I know
1:09:14how this stuff works. I mean, I I I
1:09:17I just can't believe it. That's I mean,
1:09:20we we understand that. I mean, if we
1:09:21were in your position, I mean, we would
1:09:22feel the same way. I just can't even
1:09:25believe it. I mean, it's just I mean,
1:09:28I'm shocked. I'm really shocked that
1:09:30somebody would be blame saying that I
1:09:32did this. I mean, we had a fight and so
1:09:34I went and killed her. I mean, come on.
1:09:36Well,
1:09:37that's okay. All right. Well, thanks for
1:09:40giving me the courtesy. I wish you
1:09:43Thanks for your time. Yeah. Thank you.
1:09:45All right, Stephanie. Take care. All
1:09:46right.
1:09:56Is it crazy?
1:10:22What is
1:11:49This is just absolutely crazy. Let me
1:11:51see.
1:11:54This is insane. Okay.
1:12:03Give me one sec.
1:12:09Okay, Stephanie, you know you have the
1:12:11right to remain silent. Do you
1:12:12understand? Yes. Anything you say may be
1:12:15used against you in court. Do you
1:12:16understand? Yes. You have the right to
1:12:18the presence of an attorney before and
1:12:19during any questioning. Do you
1:12:20understand? Yes. If you cannot afford an
1:12:22attorney, one will be appointed for you
1:12:24free of charge before any questioning if
1:12:26you want. Do you understand? Yes. Do you
1:12:28want to talk to us right now? No. Okay.
1:12:31All right. Okay. This is crazy. This is
1:12:34I'm like I'm like in shock. I'm totally
1:12:37in shock.
1:12:42Stephanie Lazarus was arrested in June
1:12:442009, more than two decades after Sher
1:12:47Rasmuson's murder. The evidence that had
1:12:49once been overlooked, including a
1:12:51bitemark swab preserved from the
1:12:53original crime scene, ultimately tied
1:12:55her to the killing. In 2012, she was
1:12:58convicted of first-degree murder and
1:13:00sentenced to 27 years to life in prison.
1:13:03What began as a seemingly random act of
1:13:05violence was revealed to be something
1:13:07far more personal. A case where the
1:13:10lines between law enforcement and
1:13:11criminal blurred in the most unsettling
1:13:14way. If you found this video
1:13:15informative, please consider leaving a
1:13:17like and subscribing to the channel as
1:13:19it really helps support our work and
1:13:21allows us to continue covering important
1:13:23stories like this one. Thank you.

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