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She Survived the Rwandan Genocide and FORGAVE Her Family’s Murderers | Immaculée Ilibagiza — Transcript

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0:12welcome to the christop fanic show from
0:13April to July of 1994 a genocide swept
0:16through Rwanda where the ethnic majority
0:19of the Hutu slaughtered up to 800,000
0:23tosti in addition to that Slaughter up
0:25to 500,000 women uh were raped and
0:29tortur
0:32that is incredibly heavy um Immaculate
0:35iiza is with us today who survived that
0:38genocide by hiding in a 3x4 foot
0:40bathroom with seven other women uh her
0:44mother her father her two brothers were
0:46killed and she wrote the book left to
0:50tell there's so many miracles
0:53surrounding her survival to me the
0:55greater Miracle is that she came out the
0:57other side and forgave the people who
0:59killed her family
1:00and has an incredible freedom and even
1:05joy in the grace of God in her life I I
1:09just I'm I'm already speechless oh thank
1:11you
1:17yeah before we go into the to the
1:19genocide and the experience of
1:20forgiveness and everything um there's
1:22one book you wrote so left it tells a
1:24very it's a popular book yes uh you also
1:27wrote a book about our lady of Cabo yes
1:29uh which I I read that you got to get
1:31that one it's
1:33incredible and you describe life in
1:35Rwanda just growing up in this it's it
1:37seemed kind of idic tell me about life
1:39growing up in Rwanda before everything
1:42exploded exploded yeah thank you again
1:44for having me I really love your
1:46ministry thank you for what you are
1:47doing for the Lord for for our lady for
1:50heaven people yeah so yes I wrote about
1:53our lady of kibo and by the way it's my
1:55best book I read it sometimes I have to
1:58pretend that I didn't write
2:00because I I just love to remember to
2:02feel the love of a lady the beginning of
2:05her parition and when I was a child so
2:08my childhood was a childhood like I feel
2:10like was just really perfect you know I
2:12thought I had everything I mean we
2:15didn't have much at all in terms of
2:17material but I never thought I needed
2:19more I had Parents you know I have
2:22neighbors we went to pray we pray
2:24together in my family every single night
2:26we went to mass we grew up as Catholics
2:29and just practice of our faith and the
2:31neighbors to me were really good I still
2:34remember in my childhood when we were
2:35children we used to go outside under the
2:38moon and the stars because you can still
2:40see the stars you know in neighborhood
2:42many stars in in the sky so we will go
2:45together you know be together and then
2:47look to the sky and and we would see a
2:49Flash and we thought God was taking us a
2:51picture so we would be screaming like
2:53yeah we have a big album in heaven you
2:56know that's awesome so it was fun if I
2:58went to the neighbor and fall asleep
3:01fell asleep they just pick me up and
3:03take me home so there's no parent who
3:05was ever worried about their children
3:08the neighbors just seemed like
3:09everything was okay you know wow and I
3:12really and some of these neighbors were
3:15H as well yes maybe maybe 80% were hus
3:19so there was there was nothing pointing
3:21to
3:23nothing to to a pending Slaughter no not
3:27in my Village my gosh yeah I still
3:30remember my dad he he was a director of
3:32Catholic schools so anytime he came home
3:34first he would go to tour around the
3:36village to say hi to people and when he
3:40came home he would be telling us on the
3:42table telling my mom about somebody who
3:44is sick who need to go to see a doctor
3:46but we don't have the means how do we
3:48get men from the village to carry that
3:50person you a child who Dro out of school
3:53yeah they have find a way to convince
3:55the child to go back to school so it was
3:57always like that kind of conversation
3:59care about everyone if there was hatred
4:02they didn't talk about it we spoke about
4:05Jesus you know we spoke about our lady
4:07the apparitions of one lady Our Lady of
4:10Cabo tell us about the prophecy of I
4:13mean it's it's a horrifying prophecy to
4:14read and and what happened was foretold
4:19yes I mean this is sad that this
4:21prophecy became true yes I prefer that
4:23it had been just a a fake we wished yeah
4:26we wished wasn't but it have taught me
4:29to listen to to a lady today anywhere
4:31she have appeared I mean especially
4:34those approved like then fatim whatever
4:37lady says I need to ask myself how am I
4:39following I need to do it's not just
4:42like wow amazing you know she appeared
4:44and I believe m g lady is appearing so I
4:47really pay attention carefully
4:49especially because the prophecy of K
4:51came true yeah so our lady appeared 12
4:54years before the genocide and in a place
4:56called kibo 3 hours away from us so I
5:00remember the first time we heard about
5:01that it was like the color of the sky in
5:04our country have changed everybody was
5:06talking about it it was really a big
5:09event in ways that we used to wonder
5:12there's no advertisement how every
5:14single person knows about this are the
5:16Angels taking the messages but
5:18everywhere you go to get the water to
5:20the spring you know any time I watch
5:22Lord you know the song of it feels like
5:25that was our time when our lady appeared
5:28so but everyone spoke about it did you
5:30hear our ladyes appearing in the school
5:33what did she say she said we should pray
5:34the Rosary every day so it was so joyful
5:37wow I truly s remember my heart changed
5:41as if it was like to me personal like
5:43she appeared to me and she didn't but
5:46she we felt it but she appeared to your
5:48people I mean it was like a sign that I
5:49care about completely yeah that heaven
5:53is noticing you I mean which we all know
5:54is true but those those kinds of
5:57miraculous things drive it home and she
6:00spoke in our native language she spoke
6:03like in our culture when mothers go to
6:05visit people you don't go for 10 minutes
6:08yeah so she came for 4 hours one time I
6:11remember she appeared 8 hours in one day
6:14to The Visionaries one by one eight
6:17hours wow yeah and she would ask like
6:19the simple things mothers and Randa ask
6:22how is your grandma did you go to visit
6:24them how beautiful yeah and they will
6:26talk and after that she will go to the
6:28message come back to God come back to
6:31God go to receive the you know the
6:34sacrament it was a warning from Heaven a
6:36warning from heaven so beside Faith she
6:38was awakening us back to respect the
6:42church to pray for a priest to pray for
6:44the church again to practice faith and
6:47then she spoke about the genocide what
6:49was coming how long before the genocide
6:51was this Apparition in Prophecy 12 years
6:54before the genocide because she spoke
6:56about it exactly what is known publicly
6:59on August 15 1982 so what this prophecy
7:03was you need to return to God and become
7:05people of prayer or this is going to
7:07happen she said or was it a promise that
7:10this is going to happen either way get
7:11ready no oh that is H what I have found
7:14actually with the Prophecies of a lady I
7:17don't well maybe somewhere else she can
7:19say that but when she said these things
7:21she's offering a way out if you pray if
7:24you come to God this doesn't have to
7:26happen but if you don't this is going to
7:29happen what did she say would happen cuz
7:31I remember reading in your book it was
7:32bone chilling so she showed the children
7:35who s saw her first of all she cried on
7:38this day there was assumption everyone
7:40was there many people came like come
7:4250,000 people came to The Apparition wow
7:45yeah because she said she was coming at
7:473:00 so people came from nowhere my
7:49parents were there and this was a very
7:52simple very humble place so they put
7:55flowers decorated everywhere is her
7:57Feast they think she's going to give the
7:59best message how much she loves us
8:01that's what we thought and then she came
8:03crying so the vision is singing for her
8:06and our lady like stop like what M why
8:09why are you crying I should be the one
8:10to cry and the vision was shaking
8:14falling down her tears were so deep it
8:17wasn't something simple of our lady so
8:19anyway our lady showed her before she
8:21can even speak to her people killing
8:23each other with machetes a river of
8:26blood mountains crashing in each other
8:29it was so bad and our ladies crying so
8:32bad and then she told her this is going
8:36to happen to you if you don't come back
8:38to God and she offered a way out she
8:40said yeah pray your Rosary make prayer
8:43groups in every village pray for the
8:46Peace of this country and what is coming
8:48will not happen so the the child was
8:52actually telling our lady mother don't
8:54worry it cannot happen here we love each
8:57other because she showed her people with
8:59machet is killing each other it can't
9:01happen don't worry and I already said
9:04there is hatred in the hearts of people
9:06in the poor for people there is terrible
9:09plants pray so it doesn't come but if
9:12you don't this is what is coming and we
9:15thought it was going to happen 100 years
9:18I still remember my mom telling me you
9:19couldn't imagine you live in a peaceful
9:21Village everybody seems to like each
9:22other yeah how can this be but it was In
9:26fairness I mean the kid knew that you
9:28know the the people were good many
9:29people were good but the government the
9:32leaders of the country they were
9:34planning a
9:35genocide they and we could have changed
9:38it with the prayer of the Rosary with
9:40prayer groups praying for the Peace of
9:42the country the image of the rivers of
9:44blood was not an exaggeration I mean I
9:47mean when you talk about 800,000 people
9:49in 3 months yeah I I've heard stories of
9:52just people seeing bodies just floating
9:55oh yeah down down the rivers yeah you
9:57can see find images on YouTube yeah yeah
10:00literally Rivers turned into blood yeah
10:05it was bad and we TR actually the count
10:07of 800 in Rwanda we believe there was
10:10more than a million people who died it
10:12was not exaggerated and I live through
10:15it and I'm here to witness what I live
10:17through and to especially to to the
10:20prophecy of of a lady to come true when
10:23people don't listen not because she said
10:25too bad you are doomed this is what
10:28going to happen because we did not
10:30listen and to turn to God and there is
10:33also one day and this is really why I
10:34share with the world and I live in
10:36America now I share with people she said
10:38if I am coming here it does not mean
10:41that my message only concerns Rwanda
10:43first of actually she said concerns the
10:46diis of bhar where the apparitions were
10:49happening and we loved it that she she
10:51didn't say the province she didn't say
10:53this she said the diis she it does not
10:57concern only the diis of
11:00or the country of Rwanda or even just
11:03Africa but I have come and I'm turning
11:07to the whole world wow what I'm sharing
11:09here is what I'm sharing to the whole
11:11world and the answers I'm giving here to
11:14turn from the troubles that overwheling
11:17the world they also concern the whole
11:20world when we call people to I mean all
11:21these operation sites it's about Basics
11:23Come Back to Basics pray together
11:25support each other when we when we do
11:28that it fixes every problem in history
11:30if we're not people of prayer who are
11:32charitable to each other and open to
11:33Grace I mean that that's the ultimate
11:35source of War yes um wow in troubles
11:39yeah in the families and individuals
11:42yeah the the genocide started in the
11:44capital and very quickly
11:47turned every village into a Massacre
11:49scene yes um what ignited the genocide
11:54what flipped the switch so and where
11:56were you when you realized what was
11:58happening yeah so the genocide started
12:01me I was a student in college and I
12:03happened to be home and I still remember
12:05wanting to stay in school and my parents
12:08insisted to come home so I went home on
12:11vacation of one week for Easter holiday
12:13and I had an exam when I came back from
12:15school which from home which of course I
12:18never went back but anyway I went back
12:20home truly out of obedience to my father
12:23who say come home have a vacation you
12:25will start when you are here but we need
12:27to see you we miss you okay I will come
12:30I went home so what ignited the whole
12:33thing they have prepared it they knew it
12:35was coming there was a radio created a
12:38year before the genocide where the
12:40journalist they used to act like they
12:42were drunk they would say things like
12:45one day we are going to kill people of
12:46that tribe oh they they're not human
12:49beings watch them they have horns they
12:51have tails and people would laugh it was
12:54just making drugs on us so there was
12:57this rivality between the tribes where
13:00the tribe that was on power they always
13:02feared because of many things they did
13:05they used to kill if one of our tribe
13:07would have like a a good diploma they
13:09killed you but they were worried you
13:11would challenge their you know their
13:13politics so they have come to kind of
13:15take the tribes like political parties
13:18somehow they had the power like 99% of
13:21the whole power but somehow they were
13:23always worried they would take over and
13:26maybe with some reasons because they
13:28have chased there were many people from
13:30our tribe outside of the country wow we
13:33had about a million tosis who were
13:34refugees and if you cross the border you
13:37were not allowed to come back inside so
13:39all that was there was scaring them it
13:41was growing slowly this the resentment
13:43was getting clearer clear the fear was
13:46getting clear the greed of the power you
13:48know to have the power and harming
13:51people who would challenge them so what
13:54they did was they prepared the genocide
13:56let's kill them so then they never have
13:58to challenge
13:59and then their brothers have no one to
14:01find here if they want to push to come
14:03back so what they did they made the list
14:05we knew we knew it was I remember the
14:08night before the genocide happened my
14:10brother came home and told my father
14:12father I just heard from my friend that
14:15we on the list of the people they
14:16supposed to kill so they knew which
14:18family everywhere they prepared it and
14:21they wanted something just to ignite
14:23like you said so we truly believe that
14:26they killed the the president he would
14:28not allow them to kill everyone under
14:30his mandate he wasn't a good guy either
14:33he would he would have allowed them to
14:35kill his enemies but not to kill a CH
14:38children a genocide eliminate whole a
14:40group of people so they killed the
14:42president and said oh look you killed a
14:45president now let's kill them so they
14:48they set that up as the as the spark
14:50exactly to retaliate and and and wipe
14:53everyone out the opposing tribe 10
14:55minutes after the president died they
14:57have already wiped they were out there
15:00wiping up family by family I remember 2
15:02hours after the president died BBC Radio
15:05reported 18 families that were killed
15:08and they say things like Mom and Dad and
15:10eight children mom and dad and five
15:12children and I remember my father saying
15:15this never happened before where they
15:17kill a whole family they killed people
15:19who challenge their politics but not a
15:22whole family you were hearing this on
15:23the radio happening in the capital were
15:25you thinking well it won't come to our
15:26village you know the moment the
15:29president died they blocked the borders
15:30of the
15:31country so you couldn't go there's
15:34nowhere you can go you they shut down
15:37every activity in the country you
15:38couldn't even take a car and drive they
15:40put Road Blocks everywhere they prepared
15:43it they knew when it was going to happen
15:46everything was prepared so you were just
15:49hoping it won't come to us but can it
15:53and really to was almost I never saw
15:55anyone behaving in a terrible way I
15:58never heard anyone murdering another
16:00human being yeah if I say something not
16:03kind to somebody I was punished yeah but
16:05how in the world now you can really go
16:08to kill another person I just couldn't
16:10believe it can happen to this day it is
16:13hard for me to believe and it happened
16:14front of my eyes how does another human
16:17being not have that compassion that
16:19another person is scared you want to
16:21take their life away you want to affect
16:23their mother their father everyone who
16:25loved them was it guns machetes what was
16:29the weapon in your village it was Maes
16:32and fear because what they used and I I
16:36have to say this you know I truly
16:38believe that not even half of the people
16:39of the Hutu did they did not kill I
16:43believe it was like maybe a quarter of
16:45the whole tribe that killed and then the
16:48government which is very small but they
16:50had the same voice they killed everyone
16:52in a government was against their
16:54politics so it was just the bad guys who
16:57took over and then the majority was just
17:00quiet the majority was quiet again
17:03because of the radio that scared them
17:06wow we I went to kill our enemies so
17:08they kept quiet many people were hiding
17:11people but they found them and killed
17:14them yeah and then I struggled with that
17:18what is going wrong that somebody can
17:20even dare to do this you know what
17:23everybody who took a part of that are
17:25people who did not have a strong love
17:28strong faith
17:29the people who have strong faith they
17:31would not do that some people died
17:34protecting people so anyone who was
17:37somewhere in midle even the people who
17:39went to
17:39church they did it they took a part of
17:42it when you first realized this came to
17:45your village was it did you see the
17:47violence or hear the violence and did
17:49you run and hide like what was the what
17:51were the moments that you weren't with
17:53your whole family what were the moments
17:55that had you running to that bathroom so
17:58so what happened was it went very
18:00quickly because it was on radio and the
18:03leaders so one is very organized it's
18:05like when you see today how peaceful it
18:07is it's very organized from before and
18:10is a small country so from the top
18:12leader there is under leader up to the
18:1510 house in Rwanda there is a leader and
18:17then 50 house and 100 so the message
18:19passed very quickly to the very bottom
18:22so the message of killing from the
18:24government it went in a second without
18:26telephone just contacting the leader and
18:29the leader contacting his leaders and
18:30contacting their so by the second day
18:33already we started to see how it's
18:36burning of our tribe I was still home
18:39with my parents I mean on on the hill K
18:42one is very hilly on the next Hill
18:44there's how is burning what is going on
18:47how can this be and who is doing it cu
18:49the government have already sent
18:50everything and he knew the people they
18:52are people who can do that so by the
18:55second day I still remember the moment I
18:57separated my parents I my father had a
19:00Rosary in his hand and he spoke to
19:02everyone who came to him CU they were
19:03running to him they knew he loved them
19:05he's a leader yeah he was a leader in
19:07the hearts of people it's funny so you
19:09got split up from your family my father
19:11gave me a rosary asked me to go to the
19:13neighbor he said go I can't worry about
19:15people but I can't and worry about you
19:18you I was one girl among three boys my
19:20brothers were insisting go so I went and
19:23from there already I knew things were
19:25bad when I said bye I remember my dad
19:27give me a rosary
19:29and you don't know where your daughter
19:31is going to eat tomorrow just go to that
19:33house and he when he gave me the rosary
19:36and it was over somewhere in my heart it
19:39was like the words he didn't speak I
19:41heard them like he said yeah I want to
19:45be here anymore but you know what to do
19:48if you need anything you pray and I Lady
19:51will pray for you beautiful and to give
19:53it I didn't hear those but I felt his
19:55heart spoke to me so that was it I never
19:57saw them again I went to the neighbor
20:00convincing myself I have to see them
20:02this is crazy I went to the neighbor who
20:05was from the other tribe I told him one
20:07my father told me to come there and he
20:09put me in his house and the next morning
20:11he showed me this tiny bathroom he's
20:13like come come so he was risking his
20:16life hiding you guys yes he was risking
20:19and um and he have lived through life so
20:22he knew how they were treating us he
20:24have lived through the wars before I
20:26remember he told me I'm fearful I'm
20:30scared they might do to you what they
20:32did in 15 1959 I'm like 59 I knew the
20:37history they killed people of our tribe
20:38that time too but I then it was so bad
20:42my parents never wanted to speak too
20:43much about the tragedy of the past was
20:46always about the choices you make today
20:48study well love practice your faith love
20:51the neighbors serve others don't leave
20:53for yourself that what that what we were
20:56told I'm like what 59 and I saw the
20:59gravity of what he said in his face it
21:01was scary so anyway he put me there I
21:04still think like okay things are good so
21:06I sat there he went back at night he
21:09brought five more women it was 3x 4 ft
21:12bathroom yeah that's not very big not
21:14very smart we have to sit on top of each
21:16other I'm like is this bad and then he
21:19told us he won't even tell his own
21:21children that we are there he said you
21:24never know who can say something and can
21:26be too late so the spies of the
21:28government with all over in the country
21:31so we start there he told us in my last
21:353 to 4 days so all every only thing I
21:38have was my rosary in my hand and this
21:40the funniest thing God is really has a
21:42way to teach us and to reach out to us
21:44in troubles I remember there was a song
21:47in my heart that was coming out and the
21:49song
21:51was I will tell everybody I would tell
21:54all nations what you have done for me
21:57like I would tell all nations is toward
21:59the end of your time and no the very
22:00beginning oh oh wow the very beginning
22:03the song was that I would praise God I
22:05would tell everyone I will go around I
22:07will share my like everything we have
22:09the song in Rwanda it exists but the
22:12song was singing unwillingly and I would
22:15pinch myself and I would tell God no
22:17this is not time to praise you can't you
22:19see they killing us and then I would got
22:22to the song will come again I will tell
22:25everyone I mean it's now 30 years later
22:28it's standing in front of people sharing
22:30my testimony I'm like if only I paid
22:33attention to that voice that I was
22:35shushing no I can't sing for you I can't
22:38praise you they are trying to kill us
22:40but the song Work was coming unwillingly
22:43with my rosary in my
22:45hand oh thank you thank you God is good
22:50he was there from the beginning tell me
22:52about those 91 days in the mouth of lion
22:54when did you realize that your family
22:56was dead all except your brother who was
22:58away at college and yes yes um did you
23:01see the violence outside the bathroom
23:03window how did you how did you not get
23:05found tell us this the story what
23:09happened during that time where for
23:11three months we never spoke I knew no
23:14words I never well few words like asking
23:17the pastor the man he was a Protestant
23:19Pastor I asked him one time to push a
23:21wardrobe in front of the bed the door so
23:24those are kind words I ever said
23:26otherwise when we came out my voice was
23:29was like something roaring I'm like what
23:30is that oh you couldn't talk we couldn't
23:32talk for 3 months so and we couldn't he
23:35said even if you don't even Flash The W
23:37of the bathroom one question mark once
23:40somebody suspect I won't be able to
23:42protect you it will be too late so we
23:45had to be sitting like this and thank
23:48God I started to pray soon after I got
23:50there I start the first thing that
23:53happened I remember was the emotions I
23:55never thought were possible anger oh I
23:58can die out of anger anger how did they
24:02do this my parents love them how can
24:04they do this to us well this is unfair
24:08who who become a sin because you are a
24:10tribe you know I'm just rebelling inside
24:14and I had anger and I thought if I
24:16became I came outside I was going to
24:18become a soldier and train my body not
24:21to protect the country which that's what
24:22the soldiers do to Revenge to get hold
24:25on a big gun and just bombard the whole
24:27country things I never even thought I I
24:30mean not even possible in real life you
24:31wanted to kill B I wanted to kill them I
24:34wanted to explore the whole country just
24:36so that our tribe can feel equal that
24:39how I felt it was too injust what was
24:41going on so I felt anger and it affected
24:44me physically how I would think about
24:47things and you gone you go on anger
24:50becomes like a sickness Obsession you go
24:53through the things that are hurting you
24:54or you can do what I can do and I will
24:57be sweating out of anger my heart will
25:00be beating faster out of anger and then
25:02you think you are done to plan and I
25:05start from the beginning again and then
25:06I would do this and then I would do that
25:08I'm like I'm tired I'm tired of being
25:12angry and doing nothing I'm still here
25:15yeah and then I will move from anger to
25:16fear and fear will hurt differently than
25:19anger my stomach will be burning what
25:22can happen what did they catch me what
25:25did they cut me in pieces what did they
25:27keep me and abuse me for whatever days
25:29they want and all that will come and my
25:32stomach will burn and I will be hurting
25:34in my body in my bones in ways I can't
25:36even say and that will come from I will
25:39leave anger fear to impatience I can't
25:43take it I need a place to lay down you
25:46couldn't lay down no I'm here we are
25:48sleeping on top of each other and then I
25:50said feel like even prisoners they have
25:53a cell at least they have enough place
25:55but we don't even have a cell and had
25:57done nothing wrong so the impatience the
25:59complaining for the first week they were
26:01killing me alive I couldn't remember how
26:04to smile with that anger I wished I was
26:08I was a I wish I was stupid I was
26:11deaf I couldn't even think I wished all
26:14those things so that I don't have to
26:16think and reason what was going on then
26:18I can be smiling you know I don't know
26:20what is going on but it was so painful
26:22to think towards the end of the week and
26:24this is where things changed when the
26:26pain became more the pain got worse the
26:29the pain got worse I'm in this bathroom
26:31for the whole week I think is hell oh
26:34yeah and I remember was stretching we
26:36had to go to take turn to stretch to
26:38stand and stretch our arms because we're
26:41there you sleep on top and that's humid
26:43and yeah it's it was not good anyway I
26:45was stretching and shockingly I saw
26:48through this tiny window of the bathroom
26:50people I thought they were running
26:52endlessly like a thousand people dressed
26:55in banana lips and had all kind of arm
26:58long spares I never saw a spare like
27:00that they were long like really taller
27:02than them they had machetes some of them
27:05had grenades around their body I've seen
27:07them in the pictures in the movies they
27:09had guns over their shoulders people I
27:12knew people who I I went to school with
27:15I'm like this is a friend how can they
27:17do this but like I say those are
27:19slaughtering slaughtering what did their
27:21faces look like I mean do they look like
27:23they were demonically overtaken or do
27:27they look
27:28like the people you knew I mean what no
27:30you can say that there were people
27:32without shame there were people who were
27:35angry the first prayer I told God I
27:38begged him if you are there please help
27:41me save me from the people today but
27:44this is the way I wish to be saved I
27:46don't want to look in their face I don't
27:48want to look in these angry faces it was
27:50another trauma to look at them like that
27:53like to see someone become like an
27:54animal it is not like they were angry in
27:56a horrible way it just that I looked in
27:58the face in the eyes there is no
28:00Humanity it was just a person hungry to
28:03to hurt like something just took over
28:06wow so when I saw them I fell over the
28:09ladies and I knew my life was over and
28:12they're going maybe to put a knife in my
28:15back but I start to think about
28:17everything I knew about faith who is
28:19going to greet me am I going to see
28:21Jesus am I going to see Mary in a in a
28:24in seconds all that came through wow and
28:27then I thought the pain I was going
28:28through there was like a thousand
28:30needles that going through my body and I
28:32remember even thinking is this how
28:34patory hurts because I have heard about
28:37patory that when you are there it hurts
28:40and as a child I used to think like my
28:42body is buried how can my soul hurt wow
28:46cuz I never gone through any emotional
28:47pain you experienced your soul hurting
28:49or that yeah I'm like oh this must be a
28:52patory HS oh am I going to oh what is
28:55going to happen everything was rushing
28:57through my mind like everything and then
29:00in that moment I truly I always say this
29:02when I'm sharing in public I felt as if
29:05I have two voices over my shoulders but
29:07nothing too strange and then now I
29:10recognize as voices that were fighting
29:12over my life the one from God one from
29:14the devil so one voice again nothing too
29:17strange but more intense for sure
29:19something was telling me open the door
29:22and the torture is too painful and that
29:25sounds like me being reasonable in time
29:28like that without without much Faith you
29:30know just why wait for them then catch
29:32you better to end it just go out you
29:36know let them just kill you quick what
29:38stopped you God stops me with the other
29:40voice that was always contrary to the
29:43this one firm more like a parent not
29:47necessarily protect me from pain but
29:49also telling me to make the good choice
29:51so the nicer voice in me which again
29:54really intense both voice was telling me
29:56don't open the door
29:58ask God to help you there is still a
30:00chance pray God is Almighty do you
30:04remember what that means you know Faith
30:07you know God God exists God is Almighty
30:10you know what Almighty means it means he
30:12can do anything do you know what
30:14anything means cuz for me in my human
30:17capacity to think I thought it's too
30:19late you can't call God they're here
30:22already but something was telling me
30:24it's not too late with god wow keep
30:27praying wow and the remember split up a
30:29second this was a four bedroom house was
30:32in a big house where you think you can
30:33go somewhere else it's too late they
30:35almost there and I remember I couldn't
30:38even remember how to believe in God is
30:40it too late is it now can I still pray
30:43and then this voice like keep praying
30:44keep praying it's not never too late
30:47hold on to him ask him to help you and I
30:49remember turning to God first I asked
30:51him are you there do you know what is
30:53happening to us do you know there are
30:56innocent people dying children dying
30:59maybe you are not even there maybe you
31:00don't even exist maybe it is all they
31:02put together to to make peace but you
31:05are you there and I ask him if you are
31:07there I beg you don't let the killers
31:10open the door of the bathroom if they
31:12don't open it today and my reason was
31:14not like because I say so my reasoning
31:17was I beg you I don't want to look in
31:19the face and if you save me today at
31:22least I will know that you exist even if
31:25I die tomorrow at least I will know
31:27everything have learned my church I have
31:29heard ino in The Apparition then Heaven
31:32is ready then I even if I die I can go
31:34there at least I can die hoping I ask
31:37God don't let them open the door only
31:40you can do it this many people in a
31:42four-bedroom house only one person God
31:45can accomplish that so after I asked God
31:48that I fed I didn't hear anything wow I
31:52truly fainted you know we used to read
31:54in books like people faint I'm like oh
31:56yeah how I never fainted in my life
31:59completely out frozen though I still
32:01remember feeling like a frozen so I was
32:04out it was about 11:00 in the morning
32:06the man came to us about 5:00 and we
32:09were like this still holding on like
32:12waiting for them to to move inside the
32:13house and he's like oh you are still
32:16like this they left a long time ago I'm
32:19like what and then we start to breathe I
32:22was like five pass the house did they
32:24ever come in the house so he told us
32:26what happened he said they came inside
32:28the house first a big number made a
32:30circle around the house so no one jumps
32:33out of the window oh my gosh and then
32:35they did it quietly CU they didn't want
32:37anyone to know that's why I saw them
32:38running quietly so that no one would
32:40know then start running away so after
32:42they made a circle around the house they
32:44went inside the house under the beds
32:47they went in the closets in every room
32:50he told us they went in a ceiling of the
32:52house with flashlights they even open
32:54suitcases to make sure there were no
32:56babies hiding what at last they did and
32:59they went on top of the house they
33:00killing babies oh every it was a
33:03cleansing government ministers were on
33:05radio saying don't forget babies don't
33:08forget Elder people we have to remove
33:10this tribe and then we can live in
33:12Paradise I'm like where have you heard
33:15that you can eliminate her tribe of
33:17people you are not their maker but why
33:19is it that they feel can do this and I
33:22knew that in my heart so anyway it told
33:25us they went everywhere they searched
33:27and then at last he came to the bathroom
33:30one of them touched the
33:32handle before he pulled it the man told
33:34us I was sweating I was shaking they
33:37could have looked in my face they would
33:38have known that is was the place and
33:40then he's shaking but somehow they
33:42didn't see it and one of them said you
33:44know what we trust you you are one of us
33:47you can't hide this bad people and he
33:50turned around I know that was thank God
33:54you were asleep through that I mean that
33:56would have been too much yeah I know
33:58it was the shock of my life and this is
34:00the funny thing what shocked me was not
34:03that we made it cuz I knew now it have
34:05happened but what Shock Me was oh my God
34:07God is read everything they have told us
34:10everything came back the Eucharist
34:12everything everything is read everything
34:14that we have told us in the church it is
34:17all we he made me God just was like you
34:20see I'm here who else can do that and I
34:23remember the man he was a Protestant
34:25pastor but remember he said I don't have
34:27you praying how you are doing but
34:29whatever you are doing keep doing it it
34:32was a time I remember sitting with God
34:34as I'm sitting to you I feel he was
34:36there and I told him God I might not
34:39know everything about you maybe I would
34:42die seeking you trying to understand
34:44everything about you however I believe
34:46you 100% I don't care what happened I
34:50will still seek you I will hold on to
34:52you until you disappoint me until you do
34:55something maybe that says okay you see I
34:57say that but I saw you can do all things
35:01and I will always take on you even if I
35:03die I will die praising you even if the
35:05worst happens even if the worst there's
35:07Victory exactly there's a victory in the
35:09end what day was this into the journey
35:12where it was oh two weeks maybe a week
35:15and a half I remember so your spirit
35:16changed 14 days in yes and thank God it
35:20changed quickly because before that I
35:22prayed the rosary always in my life with
35:25my family not every day as do now I pray
35:28like once a week you know things like
35:30that so I had my rosary but I will start
35:32to pray he Mary and the anger would take
35:34over and I would stop and I would start
35:37to think about people who are killing us
35:39I would say a father how dare oh my God
35:42my mom what she's going through my dad I
35:44would I won be able the anxiety the
35:46anger the fear will not allow me pray
35:49until I went through that worst thing
35:51and I found God came out the other side
35:53and there he was completely they can be
35:55burning me I'm going to still praying so
35:57I started to pray from that moment I
35:59asked the man to give me the Bible and I
36:02asked for the Bible because I was almost
36:04ashamed I was baptized received the
36:08first communion confirmed we went to
36:10mass Sunday we prayed every night in my
36:12family together but my faith was not
36:14that strong even just to believe God
36:17that he's there in times of suffering
36:20shame on me so I took the Bible and I
36:23started to read because I wanted to see
36:25what were I missing in bathro in that
36:27bathro
36:28I asked the man to give me the Bible and
36:30he gave it to me quickly keep quiet
36:31don't talk and I wanted to read to find
36:34out what did I miss that I didn't
36:38believe that God was there and I really
36:40one of the big thing I was I wanted to
36:42put together first about the stories I
36:44wanted to understand the the personality
36:46of God who is he and then I can follow
36:50you I'm not questioning how you do
36:52things did the fear did the anger did
36:54the non-for forgiveness
36:56come now naturally as as a result of
36:59that or was that something you were
37:01grappling with I mean you you what blows
37:04me away about you is you're not a person
37:05who's carrying around resentment and
37:07there's a lot of people yes that far
37:09less evils have happened to who don't
37:11look as free as you do um that what's
37:16the secret sauce there I mean really
37:18like
37:19what how did you let go of that so how
37:23did you like were you willing to forgive
37:24were you looking at non- forgiveness as
37:26a thing that you're struggling with
37:27pushing that out how did you do this not
37:29at all right at that moment I I didn't
37:31even think forgiveness can be possible
37:33in my situation but I was amazed I was
37:36like I fell in love with God and that
37:38right there my my heart was the Lord my
37:41heart was divided I'm like I'm too busy
37:43loving God I'm too busy trying to find
37:46out about him and when yeah that's what
37:48really changed in the beginning and then
37:50when I had five minutes to be myself to
37:52think of me I'm like I'm going to get
37:55them I'm like Anyway let's talk God it
37:58was me that's profound yeah truly that
38:01how it because the rest is kind of
38:02details when when the love uh that is
38:05God starts to to crowd out everything
38:07else yes oh I felt so physically like
38:11there was my heart belonged to the enemy
38:13to that anger before now that I believe
38:16in God he he had a p part of my heart
38:20wow and I had to find out about him
38:22reading about Dr what so people can
38:25suffer even when you love them how did
38:27the Immaculate that was falling in love
38:28with the Lord integrate with this
38:30Immaculate who's very human yes and is
38:33dealing with anger and
38:35unforgiveness was there a moment of I
38:38forgive my enemies yes tell me in the
38:41moment came so this the more this was
38:44taking over the time I was giving God
38:46the more the unforgiveness unforgiveness
38:49was becoming L more the time to spend it
38:51was literally crowding out yeah clouding
38:53out so one time I'm praying I believe in
38:55Jesus I start to pray there rary I
38:58prayed 27 rosaries every day wow because
39:01I wanted to pray unceasingly when I
39:03stopped praying the bad voice came back
39:06they will rape you they will catch you
39:08in pieces is better to die do you want
39:11to live alone without your parents I'm
39:13like you're right and let me say the
39:15rosary and I will go back to the rosary
39:17and when I you just ignored the voice
39:19yes you just turned to God and to ignore
39:21it I had to do something else to go to
39:23God and to go to God was to pray that is
39:26powerful weird it is people so often
39:29engage that inner voice of darkness and
39:31think I I have to figure it out I have
39:32to counter it like don't enter into
39:34conversation with the evil woman when
39:35you think in hell yeah yeah sorry go
39:38ahead he's definitely smarter than us
39:39and he's consistent when you are
39:42vulnerable so I I realized in that
39:44bathroom whenever wasn't praying The
39:46Voice came back to a point where even
39:49when I'm praying it started to speak
39:51beneath my words so and I remember
39:53asking God how do I pray now I still
39:55hear the voice and something in my heart
39:57was like pray with all your heart I'm
40:00like how do I pray with my heart mean
40:02what you say and hear yourself say them
40:05those words don't just say words like
40:07you know talking to somebody I'm talking
40:10to you now I have to know that I'm
40:11talking to you so the same way God is
40:14there even if you don't see him don't
40:16just talk like you you saying words
40:18Machin so I start to do that and that's
40:20why the Forgiveness started to come in
40:23among many things that changed it
40:25started with our Lord's Prayer
40:27that part that said forgive us as we
40:30forgive those who trespass against us I
40:34went to I sat to pay attention to that
40:36I'm like what I'm saying these words but
40:38I can't forgive them but I can't lie to
40:41God I need him he's here how do you li
40:45somebody who your life depends on I kept
40:48going through that a red flag a red flag
40:51and at one moment something was like
40:53maybe my guardian angel helping me like
40:55you can skip that part of the prayer
40:58and I said to skip it because I wanted
41:00God to be on my side and I felt so much
41:02better until another time now I was
41:05about to skip it and something was like
41:07touching me like hey you know those
41:09words belong to Jesus they one you
41:11believe he God the one you believe that
41:14cannot make a mistake how do you edit
41:17his prayer I'm you're right but how do I
41:21pray and that's when I really had
41:23something the most beautiful thing
41:25something changed in me and told me you
41:28don't have to know how to do everything
41:31just ask him to help you put back the
41:33prayer and ask him to help you to
41:35forgive instead of saying I know I'm
41:38angry and I have a good reason no no no
41:41ask him to help you to
41:43forgive he's God you are not so many
41:46people let all their feelings have a
41:49vote and be the boss and don't push back
41:53or ask for help from God they just sit
41:55in the misery in the misery yeah so a
41:57moment came I was able to forgive
41:59completely and my heart changed
42:01completely that was sit in the bathroom
42:03through the fif s for mystery when I was
42:06thinking about Jesus on the cross and I
42:08remember just like one time like a
42:10thunder in my heart when I meditated on
42:12what happened and when he said forgive
42:15them they don't know they do oh wow it
42:17wasn't I feel like it was not just him
42:20saying that to them it was him giving me
42:23the words to use to speak to the people
42:26to get of that anger finally so forgive
42:30them Father they don't know what they do
42:31and was a second part they don't get it
42:34they don't know what they're doing that
42:35kept ringing to my heart and I let it go
42:38it it was miraculous and I turned around
42:40and said you're right how do I compete
42:43with evil how did I end up wanting to be
42:45like them I don't like evil and yet I
42:48want to be like them how did I end up
42:50there so that's where the changes
42:52completely happen and I truly to this
42:55day I can tell you I never went back to
42:57that wow I pray for the killers to this
43:00day and I pray for their hearts to
43:02change you had total freedom before you
43:05got out of the bathroom yes yes pray for
43:08them yeah pray for them to convert and
43:11that freed me wow yeah what was it like
43:14when the killing died down and you knew
43:16it was safe to walk out of that bathroom
43:19so we never knew fully that was safe it
43:21was really almost never safe but I guess
43:24the time of God came and the man came to
43:26tell us that there were soldiers from
43:29France who were helping survivors to
43:32come out and keep them and give them to
43:35the safe area so the soldiers came they
43:40took us out and I mean we literally were
43:42falling because our knees have become
43:44like stuck you know couldn't stand
43:47couldn't do much and I become bones
43:50every all of us eight of us were
43:52skeletons so the man I remember he told
43:54us these soldiers are here I don't know
43:56if they protect you or if they can harm
43:59you and I remember saying they are
44:01falling us they might shoot us but they
44:02won't kill us with machetti maybe let us
44:05go anyhow we are dying here so he let us
44:08go we stayed with the soldiers in the
44:11very first hour I was in a refuge Camp I
44:15had to find somebody to find out what
44:17happened to my family cuz all this time
44:20I heard people describing how they
44:22killed my brother who was my best friend
44:24theen what was his name theas theas D
44:28yeah damasen the saint called damasen it
44:30was named after him tell me about his
44:32death how did they kill him how they
44:34killed him they he was trying to cross
44:37the
44:37country he was by one man from the hudu
44:41tribe who was a good friend of his
44:43protecting him but people started to
44:45know in his family that he has him so
44:47they would go to search him and he told
44:50him like it's getting harder they might
44:51find you so they try to cross the border
44:54through the river through the lake a big
44:56lake that divide us from Congo and they
44:59took him but they both have gone and
45:02then he went to one other friend who had
45:04become bad and he didn't know and the
45:06friend called people to come to kill him
45:08so before they killed him however the
45:10night before he wrote a letter he told
45:14me I'm going to try to go away from the
45:16country and I heard they have killed our
45:19parents but if I reach there I will
45:21contact you however if I don't reach
45:24there and I die don't bead I would go
45:28I'm prepared for that and I would go to
45:30heaven that what he told me then they
45:33called him next day I tortured him yeah
45:37but he he died a hero a saint people who
45:40were there they told me he was in front
45:42of people and telling them I know where
45:44I'm going but what about you his own
45:47Killers as he was being tortured as he
45:48was being tortured I know where I'm
45:50going but what about you what would you
45:52tell God he died a saintly death yeah
45:56and uh yeah they killed him did you ever
45:59encounter someone who you know killed
46:02your your family I did yeah so after the
46:06genocide I went to the prison because I
46:09knew the head of the prison when a
46:10friend was a friend of my father I asked
46:13him if he can show me one of the people
46:16and I asked because people used to tell
46:18me I really had joy in a way that again
46:21somehow my mind and my heart to this day
46:24I'm in this little place of like almost
46:27jumping dancing for what God was did it
46:30was like you are God it's a joy that
46:33makes no sense in his grace but is there
46:36where I went to the prison to see what I
46:37would feel when I see this man and I
46:39will never forget he came from a corner
46:42the head of the J was said come and let
46:44me open for you and you can do anything
46:46you want hit him ease up your pain wow
46:49he was a good man who was a friend of my
46:51father and who have lost his family too
46:54so the manone came we just private and
46:57he he remember so well the his picture
47:00his foot was swollen his pants was
47:03teared up his hair upside down he
47:06haven't shaved in six months there has
47:08so many people in prison and he came
47:10like I don't care you know have lost
47:12every hope as he came in I started to
47:16cry
47:17uncons and what went through my mind was
47:20this man is like my father this man had
47:23a family 6 months ago this man his
47:27children are my age I used to visit them
47:29and eat on his table his wife his
47:32children how can he do this to to them
47:35and something occurred to me if he can't
47:37love himself that much how can he love
47:40me and I feel like Jesus was almost like
47:43right hand in my back was like you see
47:45what I told you they don't know they do
47:49and that was not just for him it was
47:51also for me I'm Catholic I got to
47:53confession every two weeks and anytime I
47:55go I go to confession I I had to
47:57remember I don't know what I was doing
47:59when I did what I did and it's not like
48:01I I truly don't go to sin thinking let
48:03me go sin and go to confession but no
48:06matter how much I tried to do good I
48:08look in my conscience like how did I say
48:10that why did I not do that why didn't I
48:14you know there's always sins we do we
48:15commit you know so we don't know what we
48:18do when we commit sins and I saw that
48:20manone in that L there and it was clean
48:23completely and I reached out to him I
48:25told him I forgive him
48:27you just said it did he say anything or
48:29did you initiate the conversation he
48:31covered his face I initiated it he
48:33covered his face when I told him it was
48:36like something came out of him and he
48:37became humble or he didn't expect it the
48:40head of the J who was there he's the one
48:42who got mad he said what I brought him
48:45for you to beat him do you care about us
48:48do you remember what happened to you oh
48:50I forgot in that moment that this man
48:52have L his children too and he might not
48:54take it easy I just this is what was my
48:57heart there was almost urgency in me to
48:59tell him don't take me as an excuse I
49:03please go through your own Journey so
49:05you can also find reason as I found in
49:08my
49:09own I something was wanted to tell him
49:13when you children come at least you can
49:15tell them don't do what I
49:17did that what I was hoping
49:21for it amazes me the part about you know
49:25that the the your to see friends
49:27thinking you're crazy um I mean
49:30forgiving is is is the most radical
49:33command of the gospel and it's it's a
49:34part of Christian Life and ethic that
49:37sets us apart from every other faith
49:39that we have at the heart of Christian
49:42Life this command to love your enemies
49:43yeah there's no one I don't think
49:45there's any other faith that says
49:46something that radical you're right yeah
49:49I feel like it's kind right and even
49:50among good people when you want to go
49:52actually that far it's like wait I
49:54thought you were on our team
49:56you know and it's like no if I'm really
49:58on Jesus's team you
50:01do you know one of the message our lady
50:03gave us again I have read so much after
50:05that or so like I truly believed in God
50:08fully now I have to to read everything
50:10she said I want to apply and I saw the
50:12consquence consequences of us not
50:15listening to her so one of the message
50:17she have said she said my children pray
50:20for those who hate you and persecute you
50:22when you pray for them you are rubbing
50:25them the power to do evil because every
50:29bad action every evil is influenced by
50:32the devil obviously so when you are
50:34praying for them they lose that that
50:36strength I'm like how genius that is so
50:39when you pray for you the people who
50:41hate you you are taking away the the you
50:44know the Zeal they have in in hatred
50:46towards you you are weakening them so
50:49it's a very good tour um this quote came
50:52to mind as a prepared for this interview
50:54this is from uh it's it's kind of a
50:56chilling quote from Shelson Inson as he
50:58wrote the gulag archipelago so he
51:00suffered through the gulag system with
51:02the with the
51:04Soviets uh and was put in jail and and
51:06experienced the full evil of the 20th
51:09century and he said there's always this
51:11fallacious belief it would not be the
51:13same here here such things are
51:15impossible alas all the evil of the 20th
51:18century is possible everywhere on
51:21Earth
51:22um how long have you lived in America
51:24now 25 years now years is is there are
51:29there things happening in American
51:30society right now where you'd look at
51:34that and say wow that looks chillingly
51:37like Rwanda just before everyone started
51:40killing each other yeah oh wow that's a
51:43big question and a good question and of
51:45course I wish to give hope to people as
51:48our lady was giving us hope and to pray
51:50to pray to pray and uh make prayer
51:53groups and pray together go to church
51:55convert and your heart and pray for the
51:58church but and and then anything is
52:01possible to change however as you just
52:03said I have seen things changes in this
52:04country yeah what are the changes you're
52:06seeing the changes the division the
52:09divisions you know I remember that radio
52:11that used to divide people went to it
52:13started in the country we start to see
52:15our friends just turning away from us
52:18and they would be laughing at us just
52:19because the radio was doing that you
52:21couldn't have a conversation about
52:23somebody things you see wrong and the
52:27other person is fully into that I
52:29remember one friend of mine literary in
52:32my college before the genocide he told
52:34me I love you you're a good person if if
52:39a war come comes please don't come to me
52:43I will kill you what why how can you do
52:47that he said like we become
52:49crazy and this is my friend we sitting
52:52together we do work together I can't
52:54believe this is said and that exactly
52:56what happened he went to kill yeah he
52:59did so again talking about what is going
53:02on Eva is horrible I don't think I truly
53:05don't think that what happened to Randa
53:07can happen here because where was
53:10strength 99% and 1% of you know like in
53:14terms of power and
53:16everything here I feel like it's 50/50 I
53:19feel like there is evil that takes over
53:22a completely that acting in a very hard
53:24way and when I say this I'm don't mean
53:26political parties and I don't even mean
53:29colors of skins there's just a certain
53:32evil that is taking that is you see it
53:35it's right my God and that's a chilling
53:39um observation yeah there's the loss of
53:41a middle ground yes there's the loss of
53:43an ability to have a conversation have a
53:45conversation you know when people
53:46disagree now they're shocked that other
53:49people aren't seeing what they see but
53:51what's happening is they're looking
53:53online and the algorithm feeds the thing
53:55they look for
53:57and they think well this is the whole
53:58world in front of me here don't you see
53:59the whole world that I'm seeing it's
54:00like no you're you're seeing what what
54:03algorithm you're being fed because
54:06marketers want to sell you things they
54:07want to keep your eyes on the screen
54:08showing you what you like and and we
54:10have this this bifurcating world I I
54:13heard this stat recently that 80% of
54:15conservatives hate liberals and 80% of
54:17liberals say they hate conservatives and
54:19and the word used is hate it's like as
54:21if it's such a pun word it's horrible
54:24yeah and they know when there's a war
54:26when there is Uprising when there is
54:28violence everybody get hurt there's no
54:31one who wins you know what do we do
54:34what's what's your warning for America
54:36what's your warning for the world love
54:38one another and pray the two sides are
54:41people who pray and people who don't
54:43pray those are the sides yes those are
54:46the sides in this country yes so the
54:48people who don't pray they have gone to
54:49the deep end yeah it's like every evil
54:52like you reading and people who pray I
54:55see young people are not sleeping I see
54:57my own children they praying like you're
55:0020 and you are fasting you are doing
55:02three months of prayer what is going on
55:05so there are many young people grade
55:07schools like Franciscan University that
55:10I love very much yeah young people
55:13conferences is still there yeah there
55:16people are praying very much and people
55:17are not praying at all and then these
55:19people sometimes few of them like in
55:21Rwanda they take over the media they
55:24take over the TVs and then they speak
55:26loud and people listen I really very
55:29practical advice from people in America
55:32I would tell people don't go too much on
55:34social media speak to people have a
55:37normal conversation right make good
55:39friends here have people think yeah you
55:42know don't go I have a friend who like
55:44tell me like did you hear what this
55:45person say like but what about your
55:47husband what did she say what about your
55:50child did you have a conversation with a
55:51friend why do you like to give me what
55:53some news people said are you sure that
55:55is true yeah that the the the .5% of the
55:59populations the most extreme on each
56:00side get center stage on social media
56:03because it's fascinating to watch and
56:05then this side thinks well that's
56:06everybody on that
56:08side most people are kind of normal
56:11exactly talk to each other yes and pray
56:15pray talk to each other make friendships
56:17learn people and pray please pray as a
56:21Christian pray go to your knees and
56:23truly ask God show me the truth give me
56:26wisdom pray for the the gift of the Holy
56:29Spirit discernment like I said in Rwanda
56:31people who killed where maybe I don't
56:33even think they were 10% of the country
56:36not even 5% maybe but they had a strong
56:38voice and then they scared everybody
56:41whatever the radio said it was the truth
56:43because it's the radio is speaking it's
56:45one person scaring and screaming there
56:49and in the end of course the bad guys
56:51lost it so you see things changing in
56:54America and this is really what I feel I
56:55don't think genocide can happen but
56:57violence would happen and it happens we
57:00see it happening and maybe something
57:02different but I just feel like God is
57:05having enough I think something have to
57:07break I don't know how it will break to
57:10bring things to the normal but it the
57:12evil is too having its
57:15day wow uh to get your book to find out
57:19about the pilgrimages you lead in Rwanda
57:21to sign up for your newsletter so that
57:22they hear about all the great things
57:23you're doing where where do people go
57:25they can go to my website immaculate.
57:27comom immaculate. comom and we'll link
57:29to it in the show notes we also have an
57:32incredible program with din in
57:33forgiveness where Immaculate shares her
57:34story thank you and it's been
57:36lifechanging so um make sure that's in
57:38the show notes as well and that's also
57:39how you support our work is to access
57:41those courses including the one of
57:43forgiveness I thank you so much for the
57:45witness of your life thank you so much
57:47and we love you and I'm just like I just
57:50uh just so honored to be talking to you
57:52right now thank you so much thanks for
57:53being a saint oh and I wasn't supposed
57:55to say that not that bother you but but
57:58the witness of your life is truly
57:59saintly and and as was your your fames
58:02okay I want you to look at that camera
58:04and give a word to someone who's
58:05struggling to forgive right now okay
58:07okay and if you are struggling with
58:10forgiveness I have been there I know
58:12what it feels like and you feel you have
58:15a reason and you are H for a good reason
58:18however our Lord tells us to forgive and
58:20forgiveness bring peace and bring
58:23freedom to the heart and if you are
58:25there and you are struggling
58:26please don't say I know I'm like that I
58:29know I can't forgive ask God to help you
58:32he can do anything that's the God we
58:35believe including changing your heart
58:38but only if you give him your hand you
58:40will to help you change that heart he
58:43have done it in my heart I know he can
58:45do for anybody if I can forgive anyone
58:49can
58:50forgive would you lead us in the Lord's
58:52Prayer oh thank you so much and yes
58:54you're right we we are called to be sa
58:56we are not saint at all completely by
58:58the grace of God who knows lady used to
59:01tell us don't work to go to Prat work to
59:04go straight amen and then God will judge
59:07amen so like we do we can never deserve
59:09because we Sinners but we work for God
59:13dear Lord I want to pray specially for
59:15everyone who is watching this program
59:17for their intentions for their hearts to
59:20give them the grace as you touch my
59:21heart please to give them the grace to
59:24forgive because it or comes from you and
59:27there's so much peace there in the name
59:29of the father and the son and the holy
59:31spirit amen amen Our Father who in heav
59:35be th name Kingdom th will be on Earth
59:39as it is in give us this day our daily
59:42bread and forgive us our trespasses as
59:45we forgive those who trespass against us
59:48and lead us not into
59:49temptation Us from Evil amen amen the
59:53father son and the holy spirit amen
59:56thank you you

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