SHAPIRO STRIKES AGAIN: Socialist loses so badly, even Marx is ashamed — Transcript

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1. 0:00Shapiro: Your redefinition of socialist
2. 0:02to mean free markets,
3. 0:03where workers are participating in a free market,
4. 0:05is bizarre to me.
5. 0:07It also runs wildly anti-
6. 0:10frankly, the basic texts of Marxism,
7. 0:12like the Communist Manifesto.
8. 0:21Student: Full disclosure, I am a socialist.
9. 0:23[audience laughter]
10. 0:24So much for the tolerant right.
11. 0:26So, my question is about...
12. 0:28Shapiro: You're here, right?
13. 0:29We'll treat you well, don't worry.
14. 0:32Student: So my question is,
15. 0:33I've seen your videos,
16. 0:34I've seen you at other universities, here,
17. 0:35talking about the immorality of socialism.
18. 0:37When you do, you focus on socialism
19. 0:39as the idea of wealth redistribution,
20. 0:42taking from the rich giving to the poor,
21. 0:43taking from whoever giving to whoever,
22. 0:45but I think that ignores
23. 0:47and that misses the point of what many socialists, myself
24. 0:50and many of my comrades, see socialism as being.
25. 0:53Setting aside any notions of wealth redistribution,
26. 0:55someone already asked about that,
27. 0:57what is so immoral about believing
28. 0:58that a worker is entitled to the full value of their labor?
29. 1:01Shapiro: So, if you're asking whether I'm okay with,
30. 1:03for example private sector unions, workers get together
31. 1:05and they go to the owner and they say,
32. 1:06"We want more of the profit margin,"
33. 1:08sure. As long as you're not kneecapping somebody.
34. 1:11Right? But if you kneecap somebody,
35. 1:13then I don't approve of your means anymore.
36. 1:15If you're asking me if a bunch of workers
37. 1:16decide to get together
38. 1:17and form a joint stock corporation, of course,
39. 1:20that's how most corporations are formed.
40. 1:22Most LLCs are formed this way.
41. 1:23It's a couple of guys who got together,
42. 1:24band their labor together,
43. 1:25it's like two guys.
44. 1:26And then, after it grows, they decide to hire other people.
45. 1:29So we need to be very specific. When you talk about
46. 1:31the ownership of the means of production,
47. 1:32are you talking about my version?
48. 1:34Because that's called capitalism.
49. 1:35Or are you talking about where the government owns
50. 1:36the means of production and
51. 1:37or crams down on voluntary associations rules
52. 1:41as to the means of production?
53. 1:42Student: I'm actually
54. 1:44talking about neither.
55. 1:46I reject state socialism, personally.
56. 1:48What I'm referring to is specifically
57. 1:51for example, the term given is worker cooperatives,
58. 1:54the most prominent example, the Mondragon Corporation
59. 1:56in Spain,
60. 1:58there is no investor or capitalist group
61. 2:01that owns the profits.
62. 2:03When the company turns a profit, that profit is distributed
63. 2:05among the workers, some 80,000 employees.
64. 2:08It's a wildly successful corporation.
65. 2:09Shapiro: Is it a voluntary association?
66. 2:11Is there any cramdown happening?
67. 2:12Student: No, there's not. Shapiro: Then good.
68. 2:13It's capitalist.
69. 2:14That's not socialist.
70. 2:16Student: It's not...
71. 2:19Shapiro: That's free markets by nature.
72. 2:21Student: That's simply not what capitalism is though.
73. 2:23The term capitalism was coined in the 1850s
74. 2:25by a French socialist named Louis Blanc
75. 2:27to describe how such an occurrence..
76. 2:28Shapiro: Right, as a derogatory term, right?
77. 2:30I should actually use the term free market.
78. 2:31It is a free market system
79. 2:32when voluntarism is associated with it.
80. 2:34Student: So that assumes
81. 2:36that markets are unique to capitalism.
82. 2:38That capitalism has the sole claim on markets.
83. 2:40When no one has...
84. 2:43Shapiro: You're not arguing for anything
85. 2:45that is non-voluntary,
86. 2:46that violates any single prescription of free markets
87. 2:48that I have laid forth.
88. 2:49So I'm wondering if we're just arguing over,
89. 2:51you're saying that my free market terminology is actually
90. 2:53socialist terminology, then we're arguing over semantics.
91. 2:56What is it about what I have said
92. 2:57that you actually don't like, I'm still wondering?
93. 2:59Student: All right.
94. 3:00Well, what I don't like about what you've said,
95. 3:01I believe it's intellectually dishonest for you to
96. 3:02lay unequivocal claim for capitalism on the market system
97. 3:08and simply say, all right, that's it.
98. 3:10I believe that's intellectually dishonest.
99. 3:11I think it misrepresents what socialism is.
100. 3:12Shapiro: There's not a single theorist of markets
101. 3:14who would disagree with a single proposition that I've laid
102. 3:17at the roots of what markets are,
103. 3:18not one.
104. 3:19There's not one.
105. 3:22And your redefinition of socialists
106. 3:23to mean free markets where workers are participating
107. 3:27in a free market is bizarre to me.
108. 3:29It is also runs wildly anti- frankly,
109. 3:33the basic texts of Marxism, like the Communist Manifesto.