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Saxton Fireside Chat with Artist & Advocate for Peace, Dr Gill Hicks — Transcript

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0:01[Music]
0:03and good morning everybody and welcome
0:06to today's fireside chat today I'm
0:09joined by the wonderful Jill Hicks who
0:13is considered to be one of the most
0:14thought-provoking powerful and
0:17life-affirming speakers in Australia and
0:19the UK
0:20she's globally known as an advocate for
0:22stainable for sustainable peace and
0:24valuable resource in countering violent
0:26extremism her devotion to making a
0:29personal greater contribution and
0:31positive difference to the urgency of
0:33building peace was realized when she was
0:35permanently injured in the London
0:37terrorist bombings on July the 7th 2005
0:40but Jill is much more than a survivor
0:43her focus is on building confidence and
0:47trust within ourselves how having both
0:49allows us to make transformative choices
0:52Jill advocates for the growth of a more
0:54confident collective society her life is
0:57built on what she describes as a series
1:00of conscious choices for mindfulness and
1:03being aware of the importance of the
1:04moment sharing what she has learnt about
1:07herself about humanity and the
1:09extraordinary and what she believes is
1:11an inherent ability to not only face but
1:15to rise in the wake of adversity it's
1:17not only inspiring but it's a valuable
1:20insight into what is possible in life
1:23Jill Hicks good morning and welcome bye
1:33yeah at least we have an outing we do I
1:38don't have my track suit on my house
1:45we're perfect let's maybe go back to
1:50sort of when you were a little girl and
1:52you know what did you want to do and
1:54what did you want to be when you grow up
1:55and and why so I was always the
2:01Entertainer I loved dancing I loved
2:04singing but for me what really sort of
2:08touched my whole soul and brought me to
2:11life was
2:13painting and drawing and being an artist
2:16and there's a very funny story my mother
2:19was brought to my primary school to have
2:22a meeting with the principal who wanted
2:25to tell her look your daughter has this
2:28extraordinary gift all the other kids
2:32are doing stick figures and your
2:33daughter's doing these incredible pieces
2:37of art what would you like us to do and
2:40perhaps we should do something and it
2:43goes to show the difference in era and
2:45generation because there's my beautiful
2:47mum who just sat there and said oh isn't
2:51that lovely Jilly oh and I just thought
2:55God here we are with my daughter if that
2:57was my daughter I was in that situation
2:59be it right let's get her to the best
3:01art school
3:02I don't care if she's seven we're gonna
3:04strip you know fast-track me and I just
3:06yeah so I it's it was it was I guess who
3:10I had always wanted to be and my father
3:14said to me that absolutely not
3:17am I allowed to follow a path in arts or
3:20be an artist and he was very clear he
3:23just said you will never make any money
3:25unless you're dead and you're good and
3:28if you're good then your paintings will
3:30be worth something after you after
3:32you're dead that was it so so what did
3:35then what did you end up doing so if you
3:37have you know father is so I went on the
3:41periphery so I then when it is up design
3:45and and and the the outskirts of
3:48architecture so I was always on this
3:50sort of more professional periphery of
3:53who I really was in the middle which was
3:56the artist yeah and it was and it was
3:59bitters and it's interesting cuz they
4:01both died when I was still quite young
4:04so they didn't ever see that progression
4:07for me but I but I would remember sort
4:09of rebelling against my father and you
4:12know just all he wanted me to do was law
4:14or medicine and I was sort of
4:17threatening to say no I'm going to drop
4:19out and be you know a beautician or a
4:21you know do something that will really
4:23really tasty shake you up
4:26colleagues yeah like a true leader and
4:35then at the age of 19 you arrived in
4:39London
4:41like many aziz do go across to London
4:44just sort of you know have that sort of
4:46travel experience and life experience
4:49and you know you actually became an
4:51incredibly well recognised figure in the
4:54creative and cultural landscape in the
4:56United Kingdom maybe just talk us
4:58through you know 19 packing up and
5:01heading to the UK yeah but my dad my
5:07daughter's done the same thing I'm
5:08living in fear that she won't come home
5:10but we'll see what happens
5:12well I have this this sort of theory
5:15that if you go for longer than five
5:16years that's kind of it and you won't
5:19come back because five years is enough
5:21time to create a new life yeah with new
5:24friends and suddenly you're pull back to
5:27your where you've come from becomes less
5:30and less and less and I mean I lived
5:32there for coming up to 25 years so it
5:35was a long time but for me yes both my
5:39folks died and and I had this sort of
5:42reaction and it's been really
5:45interesting for me to think deeper about
5:47my actions at the time because I still
5:50quite young it mentally as well so quite
5:54a naive person I'd never left Adelaide
5:57I've never never never ventured at that
5:59time to even Melbourne or Sydney so my
6:02first you know plane trip was this plane
6:06ride on Qantas to London and and I
6:09didn't even have a bearing that it would
6:12be a 24 hour journey so I remember being
6:15immaculately dressed thinking when I'm
6:18going to London so my expectation of
6:21course is that I'm going to get off at
6:23the other side and run into someone
6:25that's just going to say you're exactly
6:28what we're looking for you they come
6:29with us and so there I was I remember
6:31had my hair beautifully straightened and
6:34sunglasses on my head and this little
6:36beard travel suit with blue suede
6:38high-heeled boots
6:39and I looked at people getting on with
6:41track suits and pillows and I thought oh
6:43do you yes that's not very that's not
6:47very good for going to London in yeah
6:50and boy was I just you know I look back
6:55and I don't even know how I survived
6:57it's just that incredible what you don't
7:00know you don't know yeah
7:03and isn't that a blessing isn't that
7:04sort of this great shield of armor that
7:07you just go into something and without
7:10thinking it through because you don't
7:11know that you have to think anything
7:13through and I remember this sense of all
7:15I wanted was to I was with mum when she
7:19died and the impact of this beautiful
7:23woman who was just in her early 50s you
7:26know her hand sort of slipping out and
7:28and I just thought is that is that it
7:31you know I know that if I stay in a
7:33delay is I'll probably go on to have a
7:36Labrador and and get married and have
7:39you know why she meant I need to shake
7:42it up you know I need to really find out
7:45where I can do so that was the that was
7:47the only thought and so it was meeting
7:50this unwanted horrific change with let's
7:54just shake my whole life up and I
7:57thought okay I've got a visa for two
7:59years
7:59let's you know what's the worst that can
8:02happen and I was I found some I had you
8:05know traveler's checks so that's how
8:07long ago it was and I remember even the
8:10beautiful bank manager I won't won't
8:12name the bank but I hear I wasn't
8:14Adelaide and he said to me now Jill you
8:18do knit you do understand don't you that
8:2020 pounds is different than 20 dollars
8:24and I said no it was 20 is 20 and by 20
8:28it's like for like they said no no no
8:30that's not how much money you really
8:32have you have this much money once you
8:35get to the UK and I said here's my home
8:37phone number please call me when you
8:40realize what's the reality of your life
8:42and so I did call him and say I've only
8:45got 10 so I was looking at this shared
8:50accommodation across the road from
8:51Holloway Woman's
8:53Prison and I think there was a sort of
8:5625 people in this house and it had no
8:59electricity no hot running water and our
9:03amendment of writing letters home to
9:05friends and and my brother and just gay
9:08London is exactly what I need right now
9:12it's going to be the making of me and
9:14you know all by a little torch like
9:16writing these things and and I realized
9:19you know I need to go out and let that
9:21London know I'm here and it was that of
9:24waking awakening also of of you know
9:28here in Adelaide we would talk to
9:30everyone so he'd been a bus stop or
9:32anything he just got morning how are you
9:34and of course coming from a smaller city
9:37everyone kind of knows everyone or
9:39there's six degrees of separation yeah
9:41so there I was in that in that sort of
9:45mindset in London sitting next to
9:48someone saying morning how are you I am
9:52ablaze I didn't see these people get
9:55their books and just go I don't talk to
9:57me of all the things to learn that
10:03there's this etiquette of the tube that
10:05you're not allowed to talk to anyone
10:07you're not allowed to look at anyone and
10:09that life was actually pretty pretty
10:12tough you know that was just navigating
10:16that alone was was a challenge in itself
10:19of how do I do this and then I was
10:23standing on on a I think it was a
10:25Westminster Bridge and I just thought
10:28okay London
10:30you're either going to make me or break
10:32me yeah I'm hoping you look at me like
10:35an adopted daughter please guide me and
10:39with that I looked up and I saw this
10:42huge tower and it was the largest
10:44publishing company in Europe at the time
10:48and I walked in there and I just said
10:51ma'am I can you anything Here I am and I
10:55remember big again greeted with this
10:58sort of no I don't think so
11:02leave your CV at the desk
11:04thank you and I didn't have a CV I
11:07didn't have anything and I ended up just
11:10saying look I'm great I will prove it to
11:15you give me a chance if I come in every
11:18day for three months for free yeah I
11:21guarantee you'll give me a job at the
11:22end of it and so I just turned up every
11:25day and and I ended up working at Marie
11:27Claire magazine starting off in
11:30editorial writing about you know red
11:33lipstick and I had again just having
11:36that world uncovered of like I thought
11:39this was you know amazing mysterious but
11:42it was actually people sitting around in
11:44a meeting saying when was the last time
11:46we covered red lipstick okay get it back
11:48in we need to bring that back on trend
11:50like wow mysteries bigger and then I
11:54went into advertising and you know just
11:58absolutely started a career there within
12:02publishing to start with that was
12:04extraordinary and had me go into the
12:08arts and into the place where where my
12:11heart just came alive yeah fantastic
12:13because you ended up being the curator
12:15at the UK Design Council right yeah yeah
12:19and amazing so so and the last project I
12:22worked on so the you the Design Council
12:24was a government-funded body and so the
12:29government would come to each of their
12:31funded bodies so the science body the
12:33design body to basically ask us each to
12:37explore solutions for various problems
12:40and the last project that I worked on
12:43was looking at the extreme costs of
12:48amputees to the National Health Service
12:51and how can design put forward a case to
12:57lessen the amount of amputees and we did
13:00this whole body of research around you
13:03know two main areas
13:04smoking-related illness and diabetes and
13:07I remember looking at these numbers and
13:09amputees thinking I've never seen an
13:12amputee aren't they just
13:14it's extraordinary absolutely
13:18extraordinary and the irony has not been
13:20lost at all but that would be my final
13:24piece of work before life changed and so
13:30then you know if we sort of talk about
13:32the day that your life actually changed
13:34you'll you know there was a series of
13:36events so for you it wasn't a normal day
13:38there are a series of events that
13:40happened that actually changed your
13:42whole timing and everything on that day
13:44which actually led to you being you know
13:47the last living victim pulled out of the
13:49London bombings though maybe just to
13:52talk to our community a little bit about
13:53that day so I I was I was absolutely
13:58what a person that you could rely on you
14:01know as the workaholic that would always
14:04be at my desk at 7:30 every morning
14:07without fail and I'd leave by about
14:0910:00 at night to be able to get the you
14:13know decent sort of tube home and that
14:17was my life that was my pattern of my
14:19life and I even developed so I was
14:21trying to give up smoking cigarettes so
14:24I started our smoking sort of 40
14:26cigarettes a day and I thought okay
14:28successive so I started smoking a pipe
14:30and I thought okay that looks a bit
14:32ridiculous so that I started smoking
14:34cigars and then created a cigar club in
14:39Covent Garden so we would meet at about
14:427:00 in the morning have our coffee and
14:44chat and if we dare have our first cigar
14:49and so this was hardcore lifestyle and
14:53this was the one day so that July the
14:56six we were celebrating the win of
15:00London getting the Olympic 2012 Olympic
15:04bid yeah so it was a slightly different
15:07evening and I slept in which I never do
15:11I was running late for work which I
15:13never was I got to my tube station all
15:17of these little increments of time and
15:19just things like my travel card ah I
15:23don't have my travel card I've got to
15:26buy a ticket it
15:27every little tiny increment of time and
15:31then my usual train wasn't there so I
15:34changed trains and it still gets to me
15:37that there I was at Kings Cross station
15:41and I was quite a short little wiry
15:45person and I just thought I'm gonna get
15:48on this next train and I sorted the
15:50budget of my way in and there I was
15:52boarding
15:53unbeknown to me at exactly the same time
15:56as a suicide bomber and it just
15:59absolutely beggars belief because of the
16:02death the timing of tube trains in
16:05London that it's every - its it's every
16:07three minutes you know it's these tiny
16:09bits of time that were literally the
16:12window between you know life as we know
16:15it and life as we don't yeah
16:16extraordinary yeah and one of the
16:20extraordinary things that came out of it
16:22was actually he wrote a book and your
16:25book was actually called one unknown
16:28where did the name of the book come from
16:31again and I think that this is probably
16:36the one area that's shaped everything
16:40I've become since the bombing because I
16:44that morning I was without an identity
16:48and when I was rescued when I was taken
16:51to the hospital
16:52I was given an armband that literally
16:55said one unknown estimated female so I
17:00remember still to this day and it's
17:03coming up to 15 years next month
17:05the impact that had on me when I read
17:09that label because immediately it said
17:12just the state that my body must have
17:15been in yeah for it to not even be
17:18certain that I was female and then after
17:22that sort of me you know wafted over me
17:24and the realization of just how bad I
17:27was it was then the secondary impact of
17:30my god people people put their own
17:34selves at considerable risk to come and
17:38save my life
17:40completely disregarding the fact of me
17:44being Jill Hicks me being anyone yeah I
17:46was an unknown human being and that was
17:50all that mattered and that those actions
17:53have completely changed the course of my
17:57life going forward because I felt
18:02compelled that actually that is who we
18:05are and I need to tell and remind us
18:08that those actions in those moments is
18:12who I believe we truly are as human
18:15beings and it's how do we get back to
18:18that without having the tragedy to
18:20remind us and you know you talk about
18:24our out of adversity comes creativity
18:28you're an incredibly creative person and
18:30we were talking beforehand just about
18:32the work that you're currently doing now
18:34and you've sort of transitioned you know
18:36there's that if you've got ma D and your
18:38sort of transition man from yeah yeah
18:41right so maybe just talk about all of
18:44that and I don't want to use the word
18:45pivot because it's being overused at the
18:47moment but you know yeah just talk to us
18:50about mad and hey how you sort of
18:52transitioned that so so I created method
18:56to start off with because I was you know
18:59really interested in the the acronym of
19:02of what is mad you know and I love the
19:05idea of being mad for peace because then
19:08that has a sense of actually yes and
19:11being angry about something is
19:13absolutely I think really healthy
19:16because being angry keeps you the fire
19:19in your belly to say I'm gonna make a
19:20difference about this I'm gonna do
19:22something I'm gonna keep getting up and
19:23showing up and making a difference and
19:26so having that anger edge I thought
19:29really was quite a constructive thing as
19:32long as it's not sort of understated by
19:36bitterness or or hatred but it's just I
19:39want to make a difference so that's
19:41where mad came from of making a
19:43difference and then mad for peace sort
19:48of migrated into mad minds so as the
19:51years of
19:52evolved so has the thinking and I
19:56thought actually I've now progressed to
19:58really be looking at counterterrorism
20:01and and and deterring anyone from from
20:06going down the path of destructive
20:08extremism and that's taken a whole group
20:12of minds coming together so then I
20:15thought well we're making a difference
20:16through our thoughts and thinking and
20:19doing something that's not been done
20:21before and then now that's progressed to
20:24to welcome back the position of of
20:28expression of art in my life and also
20:31music because we released a song a few
20:35years ago as well I thought mad what
20:38else could mad be with music and art and
20:41I thought music art discussion and so
20:45I'm still mad but it's taking on these
20:48different forms as life evolves I kind
20:51of like that that there's always this
20:54madness of
20:55there I'm underpinning everything but
20:58but being mad can have lots of
21:00iterations to it and that's what keeps
21:03me I guess
21:05excited about you know each each bit of
21:08life unfolding yeah one of the things we
21:12talked about yesterday so that we were
21:14talking about what does an average day
21:15look like and we were talking about
21:17covert 19 and next sort of the chaos
21:20within the covert 19 and you reflected
21:24on how you like to create chaos in your
21:26own life I think we should say to anyone
21:32watching look away now maybe just sort
21:47of talk us through you know how are you
21:49coping with covert 19 because you also
21:51have a family as well you have a
21:53beautiful daughter and then just sort of
21:57touch a little bit on how you create the
21:59chaos just to keep things interesting so
22:04I think
22:05for all of us in the in the arts and
22:08entertainment and events industries you
22:10know it was which that that's the whole
22:13body of my paid work everything else I
22:16do so my paid work helps fund my unpaid
22:20work which is also then had to stop
22:23because we can't keep everything
22:25yeah there's no beautiful system and so
22:28one thing that we just don't think of is
22:30this fantastic ecosystem being halted
22:35within the space of 48 hours and I think
22:39it's it's that suddenness that you know
22:44sort of creates that the panic and then
22:47the panic sort of moves through a
22:49different sort of form of going into
22:51uncertainty and uncertainty then has
22:54fear attached to it all of these sorts
22:56of things I think that if I can use the
22:59word greatest experience of this
23:02pandemic is this absolute camaraderie
23:06that we can reach out and find that
23:09actually there are so many that are in
23:11exactly the same situation there are
23:13others that are flourishing and doing
23:15brilliantly but there's a lot of us that
23:17we can reach out so I've never been more
23:20connected through you know virtual
23:24gatherings yeah and people just saying
23:27hey could you do this yeah because I'm
23:29home we're here so there's no excuse so
23:32I've found that absolutely if you can be
23:36calm enough that there is creativity to
23:39be born because you have to and when
23:42you're pushed in the corner if you
23:44haven't got many choices other than to
23:46say how do I design myself out of this
23:48and then I think if there's enough
23:50people you have a collective that are
23:53all designing something extraordinary
23:55which will be revealed one day but for
24:00me again I put into the practice of how
24:04do I throw this you know absolute
24:08intentional change at my unwanted change
24:12so just like I went to London to deal
24:16with what was happening with parents
24:17dying
24:18with even with when when I was first
24:21proper fitted with prosthetic legs you
24:23know remember the consultant coming in
24:25and he was asking me to put my arms out
24:28to measure me and I was I was very very
24:33short and so I said why are you
24:36measuring my arms he said well that
24:38gives me an idea of how tall you were
24:39and I said oh and it's because we're
24:42going to make you quite a lot shorter to
24:44get your sense of gravity and I said oh
24:46no no no no we're going to go a lot
24:49taller than that and so again I was
24:52trying to explain to him this is all new
24:55this is completely an unwanted situation
24:58so I might as well intention yeah
25:00something that I want from it so I
25:03walked out you know a lot taller than
25:05when I began in my in my natural life
25:07and even now with kovin 19 I yep up
25:12until pre-pandemic I had this gorgeous
25:15long hair that I you know loved and
25:18without even having any gin and tonic so
25:22there was no alcohol responsible just
25:24one Friday night just thought you know
25:26what I'm going to shave all my hair off
25:28because I'm going to bring in some
25:31really uncomfortable changes because I
25:35want to intention them in and have
25:38things that that is that I can say I did
25:40that
25:40rather than things coming at me that I
25:42didn't want and yeah how am I going to
25:44navigate and think about shift my
25:47thinking to watching my hair grow rather
25:50than worrying about what I'm going to do
25:53to sustain my life and then I thought
25:55well this isn't enough yet and I'm going
25:58to really push it a bit further and I
26:01happen to see an email from the lovely
26:03dog rescue places and they said we need
26:06to move the animals as quickly as
26:09possible because of the pandemic and I
26:11just thought the one thing we can offer
26:14a dog right now is lots and lots and
26:17lots of love and a home and so we've got
26:21this hilarious anxiety ridden our
26:25one-year-old Doberman kelpy and I
26:28remember saying to the people as we took
26:30her and just said other double
26:32PJ is this gonna be gonna be a problem
26:40that was so desperate they're just no no
26:43it'll be fine you'll be fine so it's
26:47it's been interesting because there are
26:50so many other layers focus in yong other
26:54than sitting there in a panic or fear
26:56yep and it's actually helps me be
27:00incredibly focused in creative because I
27:04don't I'm not able to have a moment of
27:06feeling you know worried or distressed
27:10about a situation it's yeah any any any
27:13down time I've got this little little
27:15darling sort of pulling at my at my top
27:19or jumper yeah because she wants to play
27:21yeah or she wants a cuddle it's a
27:23distraction dogs are a great distraction
27:25absolutely a few weeks ago we had Curtis
27:32McGraw on fireside chat who's also a
27:34double amputee and he had talked about a
27:38little bit about accessibility and you
27:41know I think he phrased it around
27:42exploring ability with disability and he
27:46reflected that we're not doing enough to
27:47support people with disabilities
27:49what would your sort of what's your
27:51insights into that Jill look I think
27:55it's I think it's so so hard to imagine
27:58a world where in you're able so I can
28:02only think of myself as when I lived in
28:04life one yeah when I was completely able
28:06and so arrogant about my ability that I
28:10even chose to smoke and and abuse my
28:14this fantastic body and then a life too
28:17which is is compromised and and the
28:22world has a different lens so everything
28:24that you know an able-bodied person
28:27would look at they all that that's fine
28:28you don't need a ramp I don't need a
28:30rail yeah certainly in my lens it's it
28:33becomes the Mount Everest you know and I
28:36think it's almost impossible to ever
28:38imagine so therefore I'm a great
28:41advocate of ensuring that we always have
28:45the people at the table when we're
28:47making the decisions about anything have
28:51the people at the table universal design
28:54for me is is the absolute you know I
28:57guess template that we should ever be
29:01adhering to because Universal Design is
29:04just seamless and it works for everyone
29:07because it's not just someone with a
29:09disability at someone who's elderly or
29:12someone that's got a pram or someone
29:14that's got a shopping trolley or you
29:16know someone that's just broken their
29:18leg get a bit and they'll get better so
29:21I think just a seamless ease of how we
29:24move around a city and how we move
29:26around buildings is absolutely how I
29:29would approach a design to our urban
29:32life and I think then layered upon that
29:35is our attitude and and it's to see the
29:38person again it comes back to me of one
29:41unknown estimated female it's under
29:44person who happens to be a double
29:47amputee but I'm I'm Jill first yeah
29:50absolutely if you were to have sort of
29:53you know as some takeaways for our
29:56community today what would what would
29:59they be look it's hard I think a lot of
30:03people have probably been motivated to
30:06death during this time because to death
30:09yeah and all grappling for something so
30:12what podcast what do i do what do I
30:14doesn't take I think for me it would be
30:17something that I've come back to time
30:20and time again through the through the
30:24good times to remember to be in the
30:26moment but all through also through very
30:28difficult times and that is to say that
30:31this too shall pass you know everything
30:35has its time and it will pass we've just
30:39got to get through and it's the making
30:42of really who we are so to me it's this
30:45little thing I like to say of how do I
30:47evolve to be an even better version of
30:51Jill through going through this
30:53experience and and to know that it will
30:56end it will change
30:57we'll have a day where we're hugging
30:59each other again and we'll look back at
31:03this and say gosh do you remember covert
31:0619 that was extraordinary wasn't it and
31:08we'll have faith memories of various
31:11moments and that will happen that is
31:14life yeah and if you could name one
31:19thing that you would never take for
31:21granted again post covert 19 what would
31:26that be
31:28can I have two things you can't have two
31:31things look I'm a hugger
31:36yeah so I found it really hard because
31:40that's how I communicate with people
31:42like I just put my arms out and bring
31:44people very close and I'm notorious
31:46everyone knows me for for my I almost
31:49hold on a bit too long time so I make it
31:51a little bit awkward especially people
31:56I've just met but I love you I in love
31:59I'm come from a position of just love
32:02and so I found that really hard but also
32:06traveled so so now I was due to be in in
32:10London exhibiting a rather big piece of
32:15work they're called stalemate and of
32:17course being there for the 15th
32:18anniversary being with the people that
32:22rescued me holding them being with them
32:25they're like family so it's it's hard
32:28because we don't know when we'll ever be
32:30able to get back and that's lots of
32:33layers to it of when were going to be
32:35able to get back because we've got to
32:36get life back you know to some sort of
32:39sustainability here first before we can
32:42even look at what's going on and the
32:45wider spectrum so for me it's it's
32:47travel yeah and and being close to
32:51people yeah awesome
32:53Jill Hicks it's been an absolute delight
32:56to have you on our fireside chat today
32:58just yep make sure you stay fine
33:11and yeah and I look forward to seeing
33:17you and hugging you soon yeah thank you
33:20and and and love to everyone and and
33:22this too shall pass
33:25thanks to luck see you hi
33:37[Music]
33:51[Music]
34:05can you hear me jus awesome yeah um I
34:10can't need you oh oh now can I guess if
34:16they weren't so it's so much quick

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