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Sammy The Bull with Diane Sawyer 1997 Full Video — Transcript

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0:09[Music]
0:20What's going on folks? JJ here. What
0:23you're about to see is the fulllength
0:25video of Sammy Gravano and Diane Sawyer.
0:30This was released in 1997
0:34before Sammy was busted in the ecstasy
0:37ring and sent to prison in Arizona for
0:39almost 20 years.
0:42In this video, you will see the original
0:44stories that he told
0:47which some are different now from what
0:50he's telling on his channel. So without
0:53further ado, let's let the video go and
0:56hope you enjoy it. Stay blessed
0:58everyone. Bye-bye.
1:00>> Prime Time with anchors Diane Sawyer,
1:05Sam Donaldson, and chief correspondent
1:08Chris Wallace.
1:11>> He helped put John Gotti, the most
1:13powerful man in the mob, behind bars for
1:16life.
1:16>> John's a double crosser. I'm a master
1:19double crosser. Now he walks among us
1:22free, though he was once a deadly
1:24killer.
1:24>> When you look at a total of 19, you
1:26know, serial killers don't have 19.
1:30Tonight, Sammy the Bull Gravano, the
1:32most important mobster ever to turn,
1:34emerges for his first television
1:36interview.
1:37>> As far as being hitman, I actually was
1:39good at it.
1:40>> How could you not describe this man as a
1:43monster or a beast?
1:45>> The families, his brutal hits left
1:47behind. He's running a muck all over the
1:50place. Time to go.
1:52>> Daily life in a brotherhood of
1:54gangsters.
1:55>> What did you say to yourselves when
1:57you're doing this to other people?
1:59>> While we're at the table cutting up the
2:00money
2:01>> and the godfather, John Gotti, described
2:04by his right-hand man.
2:06>> I think his problem was that he fell in
2:08love with himself
2:10>> before he drops out of sight again. Is
2:12this every day of your life? thinking
2:14about where you're going to go, where
2:15you're going to be, who's going to know
2:17what, who's going to be there.
2:18>> Sammy the Bull, who changed sides and
2:22changed history.
2:23>> We played chess and you lost.
2:26>> Tonight, Sammy the Bull, the man who
2:29brought down John Gotti.
2:32>> Good evening. I'm Diane Sawyer. Tonight,
2:34the mafia, not a movie, the real thing.
2:37From the under boss, the second in
2:39command of the most powerful mob family
2:41in America. Not long ago, organized
2:44crime had a strangle hold on most of
2:46America's major cities. Here in New
2:49York, it was said you could hardly do
2:50business, transport anything, build a
2:53building without the mob somehow taking
2:55a piece of the action. But 5 years ago,
2:58the government struck a major blow
2:59against organized crime. In part because
3:02of Sammy the Bull Gravano, who agreed to
3:05turn against the Gambino family and his
3:07boss, John Gotti. We should point out,
3:10we do not know where Gravano lives. We
3:13agreed to meet him at an inn in a remote
3:15valley in California.
3:17But as you'll see, amazingly, he's not
3:19in disguise. He says he's prudent, but
3:21he's not the kind of guy who lives in
3:23fear.
3:24We don't know what you're going to think
3:26of him tonight. All we know is that
3:28you've never heard a real story quite
3:30like this. He is the government's prize
3:33witness, Salvator Graano, Sammy the
3:36Bull. For years, he has been living in
3:39the shadows, protected by the US
3:41government from a long list of sworn
3:43enemies.
3:44>> You can relate me to a soldier in
3:47Vietnam who killed hundreds of people.
3:49Maybe I was a soldier of Goen Austria. I
3:52am a hitman.
3:54>> A hitman, the under boss emerging for
3:57his first and he says only interview
3:59before he retreats into the shadows for
4:01good.
4:03He agreed to talk on the condition that
4:05we provide former FBI agents for his
4:07protection and not broadcast until he
4:10had dropped safely out of sight.
4:14>> Here I am.
4:16>> The mafia.
4:17>> They have said you are the single most
4:19important
4:21witness ever to testify against the mob.
4:24>> I think I am.
4:25>> So there's a word that you use for
4:28people who turn, right?
4:30>> Mhm. who cooperate.
4:33You're trying to gulp me into the word.
4:36Is rat. Is that the word you would like?
4:37>> That's the word. So, are you a rat?
4:41>> I look at it as I was betrayed. I
4:45betrayed him.
4:46>> Double crosser.
4:48>> Master double crosser. John's a double
4:50crosser. I'm a master double crosser. We
4:54played chess and he lost.
4:57>> Hey, John. You going to beat it? John
4:59Gotti, boss of the Gambino family, the
5:01most powerful crime family in the
5:03country. The most glamorous mobster
5:06since Al Capone. Silver hair, expensive
5:10clothes, an all-American gangster
5:12flashing a smile while breaking the law.
5:16>> Power has a way where you can believe
5:19after a while you can walk on water.
5:22>> And I think this is what happened to
5:23him.
5:25At one time, Gotti was such a national
5:27celebrity that when he went to trial for
5:29multiple murders, someone played the
5:31theme from The Godfather while his
5:33supporters cheered.
5:36[Music]
5:37>> And in the old days, one man would have
5:39been right by his side.
5:41>> If you take notice in the videos, I'm
5:42always a step or two behind them. It's
5:44raining. I'm holding the umbrella. We go
5:46near a car. I'm opening the door.
5:48>> They were literal partners in crime. On
5:51the FBI surveillance tapes, you can hear
5:53Gotti over background music in the room
5:56putting Sammy in control if Gotti's
5:58arrested.
5:59>> This is my wishes
6:01that I'm with kid.
6:05[Music]
6:08I don't I got to do what I'm going to
6:11say.
6:13>> Were you Gotti's friend?
6:15>> His pitbull
6:18and his friend.
6:20a friend who one day decided to expose
6:22what he says is the truth about John
6:24Gotti and the murderous mafia. The judge
6:26would call it an act of bravery.
6:29>> What was the real reason you cooperated?
6:31The real reason. But was it to save your
6:34skin?
6:35>> I was just tired of the mob and tired of
6:38fighting. It was a door out of the mob.
6:42You know, I watched the David Caresh
6:44incident and I used to say to myself,
6:47"How could these people get so
6:48brainwashed?
6:51Are they crazy? Are they nuts?" And then
6:54I look at myself in the mirror and I
6:55said, "Brainwashed? Here I am on orders
6:58killing people left and right."
7:01And uh I'm calling them brainwashed.
7:04There was a book written said that you
7:06had a characteristic of committing
7:07murder
7:10with the nonchalants of somebody just
7:12pulling open a tab on a can of beer.
7:15That was about all it phased you and
7:17about all it meant to you.
7:19>> As far as being a hitman, I I I actually
7:21was good at it
7:22>> cuz you were fast and lethal
7:26>> and loyal. I didn't I I I believed in
7:29the life when I was on your case. I
7:30dropped everything.
7:32Look over the list of the murders you
7:34were involved in. They're how many?
7:37>> 19.
7:38>> Serial killers don't have 19.
7:42>> Mhm.
7:43>> We're worse than them. But again,
7:45putting it out, Hollywood, newspapers,
7:48we only kill ourselves. What are you
7:50worried about?
7:53We don't bother the public. Seems to
7:55like us. Seems to like what we do. Look
7:58at John Gotti.
8:01If I have 19, he has forget about what
8:03he's got. When he ordered a hit, he
8:06wanted it done yesterday.
8:09He would send me to either supervise or
8:10control it or make sure the job got
8:13done.
8:15And I obviously did.
8:19When you're the boss, you're given the
8:21order. You're credited with all of them,
8:22even if you're not on the street.
8:24>> But you'll hear in this report how
8:25Gotti's attorneys say Gravano is lying.
8:28That it was Gravano who instigated the
8:29murders. I think he was a sociopath. I
8:32think he committed homicides because if
8:34you had something he wanted, Sammy, he'd
8:35kill you for it.
8:37>> Once a murderer, always a murderer. And
8:39they are allowing him to walk the
8:42streets. Cindy Demanardo's father was
8:44killed by Gravano. So was Dina Molitos.
8:48>> How could you not describe this man as a
8:51monster or a beast?
8:54All these women whose fathers were
8:55killed say it's an outrage that Gravano
8:58went free after just 5 years in prison
9:00and now has his face on the cover of
9:02200,000 books about his life being
9:04published today. Gravano argues he has a
9:07right to his life story and says he's
9:09baffled at the way even the New York
9:11tabloids turn on you when you join up
9:13with the good guys.
9:14>> The media treated me real good before I
9:16cooperated. I was a hero. Seemed like
9:19the more people you kill and the more
9:20things you do. I mean you were a hero.
9:22John's still a hero and after you
9:25cooperate, which is strange to me, you
9:28become a rat, stool pigeon, a canary,
9:31the worst scum of the earth to them.
9:33>> We were anticipating this individual,
9:36Sammy Gravano, to to help us devastate a
9:40significant amount of organized crime in
9:42New York City. And that's the deal you
9:44make. What do you think?
9:46>> FBI agent George Gabriel, who was there
9:48the night Gotti was arrested, points out
9:50that Gravano helped send more than 30
9:52mobsters to prison after he decided to
9:55tell all.
9:56>> Sammy Gravano was somebody who was going
9:57to open the garage door to the workings
10:00and the the criminal activity of this
10:01family. And not just against the people
10:03we already had, but everybody else. And
10:06Gravano says he did tell everything. Not
10:08just about the mobsters and the murders,
10:11but about all those millions made from
10:14gouging the public.
10:17I was making a couple of million a year.
10:19John was making uh I would say anywhere
10:22between 5 and 20 million a year. We
10:25raped the community on a constant basis
10:27in every way, shape, and form.
10:29>> What did you say to yourselves when
10:32you're doing this to other people?
10:33>> What do we say to ourselves? while we're
10:36at the table cutting up the money. We
10:38didn't say too much. We just cut up the
10:40money. It was uh it was for greed. It's
10:43there's nothing there's no honor in in
10:44in a lot of things that we do.
10:48>> Honor. It's a word that will travel a
10:51tangled path in our story. Gravano still
10:54insists it was a search for honor that
10:56brought him to the mob in the first
10:58place. He was 31 and had been an
11:00associate in the mob for 8 years when he
11:03took the oath to become a maid man in
11:05the sacred ceremony he once pledged to
11:08keep a secret forever.
11:10>> One by one they called us down the
11:11basement. A small little basement real
11:14seemed to be real crowded, dim lights,
11:18real smoky.
11:20And when I walked down
11:23there was uh Paul Castellano. Paul
11:27Castellano, boss of the Gambino family.
11:30>> And uh he says, "If we ask you to kill
11:33for us, would you?" I said, "Yes."
11:37And he asked me, "What finger would you
11:39pull the trigger?" And I pointed to my
11:43index finger.
11:45>> The words were simple. He says, "To
11:47place the brotherhood above government,
11:49God, and family." They tell you that
11:53day, if your son is dying in bed with
11:56cancer and has only got an hour left to
11:59live, if we call for you, you come
12:01immediately and leave his side.
12:03>> He says they pricricked his trigger
12:05finger and put blood on the picture of a
12:07saint which was set on fire in his hand.
12:10>> He just said, "If you betray
12:13this brotherhood,
12:16may your soul burn like the saint." You
12:20really believed in it
12:22>> with my heart and soul. There's honor,
12:25there's respect, there's integrity,
12:27there's loyalty, there's a brotherhood,
12:29there's a secret society.
12:32Uh,
12:34and these are words that I wanted to
12:36hear and that I was totally loyal to.
12:40>> But 14 years and a lot of lives later,
12:43Sammy the Bull Gravano has betrayed that
12:45brotherhood. and the gangsters he once
12:47considered family have made him a marked
12:50man.
12:52>> I know the danger is out there. I know
12:54how they think. I know what they're
12:57going to do. I know their moves. I know
12:59them. I was part of them.
13:01>> Is this every day of your life? Thinking
13:04about where you're going to go, where
13:05you're going to be, who's going to know
13:06what, who's going to be there.
13:11>> I'm not going to worry about this every
13:12single day of my life. I'm not going to
13:14stay in uh in Montana someplace scared
13:18to death looking out of the blinds.
13:19>> But if they walk in the door
13:21>> and they have the gun
13:22>> and they have the gun,
13:24>> I'm going in the box.
13:28Simple as that.
13:30>> By the way, Gravano told us that to
13:32become a made man means your father has
13:34to be Italian. And he says usually that
13:37you've participated in a murder. When we
13:40come back, how a kid from Brooklyn
13:42became one of the mob's most feared
13:44executioners and John Gotti's right-hand
13:46man. Sammy Gravano told us that a lot of
13:49members of the mob make it a point to
13:50read Machaveli, the Italian analyst of
13:54power at any cost. Well, five centuries
13:56ago, Machaveli said there are two ways
13:58to survive. Be a fox who recognizes
14:01traps or a lion who scares away wolves.
14:04As a little boy growing up in an Italian
14:07neighborhood near here, Sammy Graano may
14:09have been a little bit of both.
14:12In this house on a street in Brooklyn,
14:14Sammy Graano grew up, he says, in a
14:16bedroom studded with photos of Kagny and
14:18Bogart. His parents, immigrants from
14:21Sicily, ran a small dress factory. What
14:24would your father have said if he had
14:26known that you were under boss of the
14:28Gambino family?
14:30>> I guess it would have broke his heart.
14:34Just like it would break my heart if my
14:35son or my nephew or somebody went into
14:37the mob because I know their destiny. I
14:40know what they're going to do. I know
14:42what kind of life they're going to live.
14:45They're going to murder their best
14:46friends. They're going to lie and cheat
14:49their whole life.
14:50>> Gravano says when his father told him
14:52about the guys in the slick suits
14:54hanging out on the tough streets of
14:55Bensonhurst, New York, the words he used
14:58were a mixed message.
15:00>> These were our protectors. We got to
15:02never
15:04inform on them uh or do anything to
15:08offend them. And
15:11we have to stay away from them.
15:14Uh they're bad guys, but they're our bad
15:17guys.
15:18>> One day, some of them noticed a scrappy
15:21little boy.
15:22>> A few kids from around the corner. They
15:24robbed my bike and I started fighting
15:27like crazy to get it back. And uh across
15:30the street there was our local mafia
15:32hangout and one of the guys rubbed my
15:34head and said uh and he says, "Look at
15:37him. He's like a little bull. Sammy the
15:39bull and it stuck all my life."
15:42>> The troublemaking kid was held back in
15:44the fourth grade again in the seventh
15:46and kicked out of high school for
15:48breaking the principal's jaw. I have
15:51dyslexia and I have learning
15:53disabilities and I always had trouble
15:56with teachers, authority, school, and I
16:00thought I was really uh
16:03sick or demented or [ __ ] I don't
16:05know what I thought I was.
16:06>> And the kids ridiculed you
16:09>> in the beginning until I gave a few of
16:10them a beaten. A good swift punch would
16:14stop that. I learned that real quick.
16:17But are you really saying you went into
16:19the mob because you had an unhappy
16:21experience at school?
16:23>> No. No. As I got older and when I did
16:27finally go into the mob, it was for
16:29money. It was for greed. It was for
16:31women. It was for fast cars. It was
16:34being part of a society, part of a
16:36brotherhood.
16:38>> You were sent away for a while, right?
16:39To the army.
16:40>> Yeah.
16:41>> By a judge instead of going to prison.
16:44When you came back, you were standing at
16:46a fork in the road.
16:48>> No, basically I went right back. Right
16:50back to the old neighborhood. Right back
16:52to the corner. I was doing loan
16:54shocking, stealing cars, doing
16:56burglaries,
16:59break an arm here, break a leg there.
17:02>> And two years in, the mob bosses asked
17:04for something more.
17:06>> 1970, you're what, 24, 25 years old.
17:11They tell you to kill someone.
17:13Did you think of saying no?
17:15>> No.
17:18I knew that this was part of the life
17:22and whatever I was asked to do for the
17:25family to benefit the family, I would
17:28do. I
17:29>> This is murder.
17:30>> I knew sooner or later it would come.
17:33That question would come.
17:35>> The target, Joe Kuchi, a 26-year-old
17:38brick layer, a friend. Gvano says it was
17:40all part of a mob related love triangle.
17:44>> What? There was a great deception
17:45involved with it, too. You had to take
17:47this guy to dinner.
17:49You had to lure him into the trap,
17:52>> right? That's the way we killed in the
17:54mob.
17:56We were all out drinking together. And
17:59uh at the end of the night on the way
18:02home,
18:05I got in the back of the car and uh when
18:08we pulled away and we went down the
18:09block, I shot him in the head
18:13twice.
18:17>> The body was thrown out of the car on a
18:20quiet residential street where Gravano
18:22shot him three more times in the back.
18:25The next morning, police were knocking
18:27on our door and you know, they told me
18:30my brother was murdered.
18:32>> Jackie Kawuchcci, Joe's little sister.
18:34>> I couldn't imagine who would want to
18:36kill him. He was with Sammy that night,
18:38but we didn't know. We didn't find out
18:40until 22 years later.
18:42>> I remember something that surprised me
18:43that I had no remorse at all. None. I
18:47didn't feel sorry for him in the least.
18:49I felt power.
18:54I felt like my adrenaline in my body
18:55went completely out of control.
18:57>> You were excited by it.
19:00>> I guess it's like an animal going after
19:01its prey.
19:03>> One of these days, I hope that he's the
19:05animal and there's somebody else who's
19:08the hunter.
19:12>> The shooting barely made a headline in
19:15New York City, but back in the
19:16neighborhood, the news traveled fast.
19:19>> Everything started to change. I would go
19:21to the same club or disco and got online
19:26and before you know it, bounces the
19:28owners came out and Sammy, "No, no, you
19:30don't have to wait online, so you just
19:32come right in." And
19:33>> you were a player.
19:34>> I was. Yeah, I was in the I was out of
19:37the minor leagues. I was in in a major
19:38leagues.
19:39>> As Gravano's reputation in the mob rose,
19:42so did that of another young star in the
19:44Gambino family, John Gotti, who had
19:46already served time for a murder.
19:49Gravano says they first met at an after
19:51hours club amid music and gambling. And
19:54>> I says, "How you doing, John? I hear a
19:56lot of good things about you." He says,
19:57"Yeah, Sammy, me, too." You know,
19:59>> did he make an impression on you? Did he
20:01have something?
20:02>> Sure. He was flamboyant. He seemed
20:05smart. He seemed nervy. He's a tough guy
20:08in the street. And meeting him, I mean,
20:11he's a good-looking man. He's got
20:13charisma. He's got personality. U
20:16Yeah, he impressed me a little bit. Over
20:21the years, Gravano became known as a
20:23hitman's hitman. He says after the first
20:26time, it wasn't him who pulled the
20:27trigger. On every hit, there'd be a
20:29trigger man, a cleanup crew, and Gravano
20:32says he would choreograph.
20:35And what did it take to get killed? He
20:37says sometimes it was betrayal,
20:39sometimes just insubordination.
20:42>> This Louis Dono you're talking about,
20:44he's a made guy. He knows what he's
20:46doing. He's not showing up when the boss
20:49uh calls him. He robbed us in business.
20:51He's running a muck all over the place.
20:54Time to go.
20:56>> It just doesn't sound quite human
20:59the way you talk about them.
21:01>> What would you want me to do? How would
21:03you want me to talk about it?
21:04>> Well, suffer.
21:06>> I guess I did that. It's not for you or
21:10the public
21:12to want to see me suffer or do things or
21:14whatever. One of the guys had been your
21:18oldest friend.
21:20>> Yeah.
21:21>> And you felt nothing then either?
21:22>> Oh, absolutely. Felt something. Tore me
21:24up.
21:25>> But you wanted to be there.
21:27>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
21:29>> Why?
21:31>> Why? Because it's somebody who was real
21:34close to me and somebody I loved and I
21:36would want to be there. And I would want
21:38it to go right. I would want it to go
21:40painless,
21:42unexpecting.
21:44Louis Malito, Gravano's best friend and
21:47Gravano says partner in the crime
21:49business. His daughter Dena went to
21:51Gravano for help when her dad
21:52disappeared.
21:54>> I sent Uncle Sammy. I didn't talk to my
21:56father in 2 days and he didn't go to
21:57work. There's something wrong. He said,
22:00"Why do you say that, Princess?" I said,
22:02"Because that's not my father." I said,
22:03"And there's something wrong." And he
22:06said, "Don't worry. I'll find your
22:07father. Don't worry about a thing." I
22:10mean, in retrospect, the man had my
22:11father killed two nights before, but he
22:14really like looked me in my face.
22:17>> Gravano says Molito was shot twice in
22:19the head and never knew what hit him.
22:21His body was never found. He also said
22:25of the death of your father, that it it
22:29killed him inside.
22:31>> What? when he put a bullet in my
22:33father's head
22:34>> and that he wanted to be there to make
22:37sure there was no pain
22:39>> for oh how how nice of him
22:42>> I knew the wife I knew the children and
22:44uh I tried to help the family but this
22:47is the life he's in the life he played
22:49the wrong cards
22:52he double crossed us and he lost
22:55>> he said that my father may have played
22:57the cards wrong
23:00but boy He was quick to take my father's
23:03companies and my father's money that he
23:06was quick to take.
23:07>> He did not have the brain capacity
23:10>> to go out and earn money.
23:12>> So he had to take what other people
23:13>> The only thing he knew how to do
23:15>> was use his two hands to murder people.
23:18Period. The end.
23:20>> But does it matter that the murdered
23:22fathers of all these women were involved
23:23with the mob? According to the FBI,
23:26Agent George Gabriel
23:27>> the mob, they were mobsters. They knew
23:29the rules and they knew that if they
23:31broke the rules, they were going to get
23:33killed just like they would have turned
23:34around and killed somebody had the their
23:36boss told them to do so.
23:38>> We told Dena Molito that on one of
23:40Gravano's murders, the trigger man was
23:42allegedly her father.
23:44>> It has been written, Dana,
23:48that your dad was there.
23:50>> Not to my knowledge. I didn't know
23:52anything about that.
23:54>> You haven't heard it?
23:55>> No.
23:56>> And where did this come from? is
23:59>> again this is this is Sammy Graano.
24:05>> Well that's news to me.
24:07>> But what if as the government says their
24:09fathers were involved in the mob?
24:12>> Doesn't it make it different in some
24:13way?
24:14>> If it turns out to be true then they
24:16should have spent many years or their
24:18lives in jail. Sammy Gravano is not to
24:21be judge jury and execution
24:24if it turns out to be true. But for
24:27sheer cold-heartedness, perhaps nothing
24:29tops what Graano says he did back in
24:311978 when Nick Sabetta vanished.
24:36>> Nick Sabetta.
24:37>> Mhm. Now, that um
24:41was my wife's brother.
24:44That was an order from Paul Castellano.
24:49I was stuck with it.
24:52Uh I participated in it.
24:56And uh it's another one of those things
24:59that basically happened. That's another
25:01one that killed me. I mean to see my
25:03wife or my mother-in-law or my
25:04father-in-law or people, it just tore me
25:06up.
25:07>> Did you tell them? Did they know?
25:09>> No. What do you want me to do? Go home
25:10and tell them I just killed your son or
25:13your brother? No. Of course not.
25:15>> They didn't suspect?
25:17>> No.
25:17>> Your wife didn't suspect?
25:19>> No. Gravano says he didn't know that
25:21after his brother-in-law was killed, the
25:24body would be dismembered.
25:26>> Wasn't there some way you could get him
25:27out of town? Some way to get word to him
25:30to
25:31I mean, did you owe that to your wife?
25:34>> There's nothing I could have done. I
25:36know it sounds easy enough to say get
25:39out of town or do something and you see
25:41that in the movies, but that doesn't
25:42really work in real life. If I boked
25:45about it or didn't want to do it or
25:46whatever, I was going to. How could you
25:49face your wife?
25:52How could you face your wife?
25:55>> It's very difficult. But being in the
25:58mob all my life, I am trained for this.
26:00I am trained for double cross. I am
26:03trained to con.
26:04>> Did you say what have I become? What
26:08with that blood on my hands? What am I?
26:13>> I'm a gangster.
26:15That's exactly what I am.
26:18When we return, for the first time on
26:20television, Sammy Gravano's account of
26:22the stunning hit on his own godfather,
26:25the king of the mob in New York, the
26:26legendary Paul Castellano.
26:29They were told, "Kill them. And if you
26:33if it means you have to die there, then
26:35die there with them. Die there in a gun
26:37battle with the cops. Do not back off
26:39with this hit."
26:40>> Told there are 26 mafia families in the
26:43country. the rules set by a commission
26:44of bosses who divide up the territory.
26:47To get an idea of what's at stake for
26:49all of us, a presidential committee's
26:51report estimated in 1988 that the mob
26:54took in 30 billion dollars a year in
26:56tax-free money. The report says the five
26:59families in New York jack up the prices
27:01on construction by 20%.
27:04At the center of this, Sammy Gravano,
27:06who ran construction and concrete for
27:08the Gambino crime family.
27:12I literally marvel at the sight of
27:15Manhattan when I see it cuz I controlled
27:17it. I literally controlled Manhattan.
27:21When I see it at night, those lights and
27:23everything about it, I think of Donald
27:25Trump and Tishman and everybody else who
27:27couldn't build a building if I didn't
27:28want to build it.
27:30That got me off. Plus, I made a lot of
27:33money with it. But to get control, Sammy
27:36Gvano says he and John Gotti would have
27:38to trade in the rules of Kosinostra for
27:41the law of the jungle. By 1985, he says
27:44they decided to move on their own
27:46godfather, the Gambino family boss, Paul
27:49Castellano himself.
27:51>> Paul Castellano, what was the problem?
27:55>> There was a lot of problems. I mean,
27:57Paul Castellano wasn't a gangster. He
28:00was a rakateeer. A gangster is a guy who
28:03is real tough. He's a street guy. He's a
28:07street hoodlm. He's a gangster. The
28:10other guy is more he's more polished.
28:12He's not as tough. He's not as
28:13dangerous.
28:14>> He says Castellano wasn't really a
28:16mobster. He spent his time reading the
28:18Wall Street Journal and lining his own
28:20pockets. And even at a gathering of his
28:23top gunmen, praising the cops.
28:27>> And he says, "You want to know who the
28:28real tough guys are? The cops.
28:31They go on domestic violence beefs with
28:34they don't know what they're going to
28:35run into.
28:36I mean, this is not something that you
28:39would tell your your top hit teams in a
28:41family
28:43uh after sending them on work every time
28:45you want somebody whacked out.
28:47>> Gravano says the final straw was what
28:49happened when some of Gotti's crew got
28:51indicted for drug trafficking.
28:53Castellano was reportedly furious that
28:56they had broken the no drug rule and
28:58that they'd gotten caught. Everybody's
29:00afraid that Paul was going to move
29:01against Gotti and his crew.
29:04>> Gotti, he says, decided to strike first,
29:07turning to Sammy the Bull for help.
29:09>> Gotti sent his right-hand man, Angelo,
29:12and he had told me, he says, Sammy, he
29:13says, "We're going to take out Paul."
29:16>> But this is a complete violation,
29:18>> complete complete violation of our rules
29:21and oath and everything else.
29:24>> He says it took 7 months of careful
29:26planning. The hit would take place at
29:28Spark Steakhouse, a restaurant in busy
29:30Midtown Manhattan frequented by
29:32Castellano. The killing was planned for
29:35December 16th, 1985, less than 2 weeks
29:38before Christmas.
29:40>> How many people did you get together to
29:42do this?
29:43>> 11? Well, there was 11 of us.
29:46>> To throw off witnesses, Gravano says the
29:48gunmen were all dressed in white trench
29:50coats and black Russian hats. They were
29:54told kill them and if you if it means
29:58you have to die there then die there
29:59with them. Die there in a gun battle
30:01with the cops. Do not back off with this
30:03hit.
30:05What about innocent bystanders? People
30:07coming down the street.
30:09>> They wouldn't be hurt unless they
30:11interfered with it and then they're not
30:14an innocent bystander anymore. I had a
30:16357 Magnum
30:19and anybody who would interfere with the
30:21hit team, I would take them out.
30:25There's that whole myth that we only
30:26kill ourselves. That shoots that in the
30:28ass a little bit.
30:31>> Gravano reveals what he says really
30:33happened that day. He and Gotti were
30:35sitting in a car parked just a block
30:37away from the restaurant.
30:395:20 p.m. rush hour, a Lincoln with Paul
30:41Castellano and his driver Tommy Botti
30:44unwittingly pulls alongside a startled
30:47Gotti and Gravano.
30:49I said, "John, they're right next to
30:51us." And I told John, "If he turns in
30:53our direction, I'm going to start
30:54shooting right here and now."
30:58The light changed. I was on the
31:00walkie-talkie. I says, "Everybody get
31:02ready." They pulled in front of Spocks.
31:05They parked the car.
31:07Soon as Paul opened up the door, I saw
31:09the white jackets all surrounding the
31:12car. They were shooting Paul.
31:14Tommy was actually watching Paul being
31:16shot, thinking which direction that he
31:19would run probably. But part of the head
31:21team was across the street and they came
31:23across and shot him in the head a bunch
31:26of times.
31:28And uh we pulled next to them. I put the
31:30window down slightly. I told John, "He's
31:33gone."
31:35>> What did you and Gotti say to each
31:36other?
31:37really not too much. It's not like
31:38football. We didn't get up and give each
31:40other high fives or anything like that.
31:42>> It was one of the biggest gangland
31:44murders of the century.
31:46>> This afternoon, police say that Paul
31:48Castellano, the reputed head of the
31:49Gambino crime family and another man
31:52were shot and killed.
31:53>> They said it was for family only. The
31:55wake tonight for big Paul Castellano.
31:57Gotti allegedly wanted to show his
32:00respects by coming here, but instead
32:02preferred to stay away because of all
32:04the undercover cops in the area who
32:06would like to talk to him about the
32:08murder of Paul Castellano.
32:11I mean, it glamorizes him in the paper
32:13like he did the whole hit and what he
32:16did. The reality is that he was a
32:19driver. My driver.
32:22>> It would be years before anyone would be
32:24arrested for the Costalano murder. In
32:27January 1986, John Gotti, a street guy
32:29from Queens, was elected boss of the
32:32most powerful crime syndicate in the
32:34country.
32:35>> John Gotti has succeeded Castellano as
32:37head of the Gambino crime family.
32:38>> Attained overnight fame as the man said
32:41to be the new godfather.
32:43>> At the beginning, when Gotti took over,
32:44did you think you'd done the right
32:46thing?
32:48>> Yes.
32:49>> And really put the gangsters back in
32:51charge. put the gangsters back in charge
32:53and we were going to change it around
32:55and make it what Goenra is supposed to
32:57be or supposed to mean.
32:59>> Did he really know how to run things?
33:02>> Oh, he's smart. There's no question.
33:05>> John Gotti was now the CEO of a giant
33:08crime corporation with more than 2,000
33:10members and associates and millions in
33:12illicit revenues. The captains, Gravano
33:15says, passed on up to 80% of their take
33:17to the boss.
33:19>> We had 21 captains. the Gonzaleier made
33:23members
33:24>> and how did each of them gave him
33:26something, right? It was
33:27>> Well, he each person gives to their
33:30direct superior, their their boss.
33:32>> So, you were giving him like $100,000 a
33:34month.
33:34>> I think it's more closer to 2 million a
33:36year. But yeah, anywhere from a million
33:39two to two million a year, something
33:41like that.
33:42>> And how far did your tentacles reach in
33:44the businesses?
33:46>> Everything. You name it, we did it.
33:49Wherever we can put a situation together
33:52that inflates the price and we can have
33:56a skim from that, we do it and you pay
34:00the price.
34:01>> So you're saying it was really true that
34:04the mob was that powerful in New York
34:06that it controlled everything from what
34:08you eat to where you live to what you
34:11wear.
34:12>> Absolutely.
34:13>> To how you travel in the city.
34:14Everything had a tax on it from the mob.
34:18just about everything I could possibly
34:20think of.
34:22>> It was, Graano says, a complex
34:24interaction of legitimate businesses
34:26like concrete and construction and
34:28criminal methods. Sometimes they just
34:31make sure their guys got the bid.
34:34Sometimes they got kickbacks from other
34:36people's work. They did it, he says, by
34:38controlling many of the labor unions,
34:40from the garment industry to garbage
34:42hauling.
34:43>> You're talking a lot of money. You're
34:45talking a lot of industry. I mean, they
34:46take over an industry, they put their
34:48people in business, and and free
34:50enterprise goes out the window.
34:52>> The families were able to shut down job
34:55sites to control the price of concrete,
34:57to control who picked up waste, uh, to
35:00control who got deliveries or who didn't
35:02get deliveries.
35:04>> If we wanted to stop a project, we can
35:07just go right to the teams to just say,
35:10"Run this by the book. Every truck that
35:12comes in, check his tires, check his
35:15which is all union rules, check if he's
35:18in good standing with the union, if he's
35:19up to date in his dues. That truck could
35:21sit there for an hour, but by the end of
35:23the day, there'll be 40 trucks, 50
35:24trucks online to get in. They can't get
35:26in.
35:28So, we'll slow that project down. We'll
35:31destroy it.
35:33>> He says sometimes fear alone would get
35:35the job done, but sometimes greed would
35:37help. Gravano says they'd negotiate and
35:40then enforce industry-wide prices.
35:43>> When you went to a big bakery, for
35:45instance, and said, "Okay, your your
35:47your bread is 30 cents a loaf. We're
35:49going to make it 50 cents a loaf. We
35:52only want 3 cents a loaf. So, you're
35:55going to make a big profit. So, it's
35:56more of a negotiation."
35:58>> So, that if you can get everybody to
35:59raise the price together, then
36:01everybody's going to benefit.
36:03>> Everybody but the public. The ultimate
36:05control is through fear. The ultimate
36:07control is the belief uh by victim by
36:10victim companies or victim individuals
36:12that if I don't comply with their
36:14demands or if I don't comply with what
36:16they want me to do that ultimately they
36:18have the power of life or death over me.
36:21>> And what about drugs? Gvano says neither
36:23he nor Gotti got involved in drug deals,
36:26though they look the other way when
36:28others in the family did.
36:30>> Not that I look down on these drug
36:31dealers or whatever they want to do. It
36:33just wasn't my business. I wasn't
36:34comfortable with it. I didn't like the
36:36people that you had to deal with.
36:38>> But you really want me to believe that
36:40with all that money out there in drugs
36:43that you turned away from drug money?
36:45You really want me to believe that? That
36:46you had compunctions about the people?
36:50It's a dangerous backstabbing business.
36:53So, it's not like I'm trying to stand on
36:55my high horse that I didn't do drugs. I
36:57just didn't do it cuz I didn't like it.
36:59I made millions in construction and
37:01shocking and not all that heat with
37:03>> Is there ever enough though? Well, yeah,
37:06it was for me. It was enough for me. I
37:09had a house on Staten Island, wiped
37:12about a half a mill. I had a horse uh
37:15farm, a 30acre horse farm in New Jersey.
37:19I owned the office building where I was
37:21in.
37:22>> By now, Graano and his wife Debbie had
37:24two children. He told her he was in the
37:27construction business. Don't ask, don't
37:29tell. It was a close-knit family, he
37:32says. traditional living in separate but
37:34parallel worlds.
37:36>> When my wife takes me to this house and
37:37she says, "I'd like to have this house,"
37:40I'm looking at it as a hitman to kill
37:42the person who walks out of that house
37:44or into that house. And uh that's the
37:46way we go shopping. She looks for the
37:48furniture, I look for the hit.
37:51>> If you question Gravano's story about
37:53the mob and the unions, you might want
37:55to know that five Teamster officials
37:57were eventually convicted. As for John
38:00Gotti, even though he was convicted of
38:02the murder of Paul Castellano, his
38:03lawyers say he's not guilty and that
38:06Gravano's story is preposterous.
38:09>> More of Gravano's interview in a moment.
38:11But for those of you who've been asking
38:13about the mafia and the movies,
38:15>> I love the Godfather. I thought that was
38:17the best interpretation of our life that
38:19I've ever seen.
38:20>> One day,
38:21>> Godfather one and Godfather 2, the other
38:24one stunk. It was once an unquestioned
38:26tenant of life in the mob that you try
38:28to operate beneath the radar. Meetings
38:31at 2 in the morning in discreet
38:32locations. But that was before the
38:35modern virus. A fascination with
38:37celebrity, infected, even organized
38:39crime. And Gravado says no one was more
38:42vulnerable to that virus than his boss,
38:44John Gotti.
38:47>> What John did is basically unprecedented
38:49in organized crime. Um, prior to his
38:53reign, if you will, of the Gambino
38:55family, everybody was more much more
38:57secretive. This was his style. This was
38:59his flare. This is what brought him
39:00down.
39:01>> Sammy Guano says he knew law enforcement
39:04was closing in. But Gotti became more
39:06and more arrogant and flashy, traveling
39:08in his chauffeurred Mercedes, famous for
39:11his $2,000 brone suits. In one week
39:14alone, he was reported to have lost more
39:16than $300,000 gambling. He bet the
39:19entire line every single game, whether
39:22it be football, basketball, hockey,
39:25every game.
39:26>> The FBI says Gotti told them he sold
39:29plumbing supplies and zippers. And he
39:31estimated his annual salary at about
39:33$100,000.
39:35>> He used to get up around 11 12:00 in the
39:38afternoon. He had somebody picking out
39:41his clothes. used to have a barber come
39:43every single day and give him a haircut,
39:46cut the hairs and his nose and was a
39:48play to him. It was a performance for
39:51the media. He went in a restaurant one
39:53time and he liked the wine that was $50
39:56a bottle and he made Joe Watts go grab
39:58the owner and raise it on the menu to
40:00200 a bottle because people knew that
40:02John Gotti liked that wine. He was
40:05obsessed with the whole image not of
40:08Goenosha, of himself.
40:11>> Gravano says on one occasion, Gotti
40:13pointed out a couple who were staring at
40:15him.
40:16>> I look over and sure enough, they're
40:18looking at him. So I says, "You want me
40:20to send one of our bodyguards over to
40:23see who they are or what they want?" He
40:25said, "No, no, this is my public.
40:29my public
40:32from my teaching and my understanding of
40:34because in Ashra it's a secret society.
40:38We have no public. We recognize no
40:40public. We recognize nothing.
40:44>> Scotty would become a kind of folk hero
40:46on the cover of People and Time. Three
40:49times the government tried to convict
40:50him on racketeering charges, for
40:53assault, and for ordering the shooting
40:55of a union official.
40:56>> Find him not guilty.
40:59The dapperdon became the teflon don.
41:02>> For the third time in 5 years, the
41:04government has failed to win a
41:06conviction against the man the
41:08government claims is the head of the
41:09largest organized crime family in
41:11America.
41:14>> Gotti emerged, I think almost brazenly
41:16as somebody that felt he was untouchable
41:20uh to the extent that we in law
41:22enforcement could not allow that to
41:23occur. Could not allow somebody uh to
41:25feel he was above the law. The FBI
41:28wanted to show it could bring John Gotti
41:30down where other agencies had failed to
41:32do so.
41:33>> Three times he got off. He beat the
41:37system.
41:37>> Sammy the Debor was fixing the trial. I
41:40was reaching jurors
41:42and bribing them.
41:45And he didn't win the trial fair and
41:47square.
41:48>> Gravano says through a middleman, he
41:50paid a juror in one trial $60,000 to
41:53stick to a not-uilty position.
41:56By 1987, Gotti had appointed Gravano his
41:59consiliary, the third highest position
42:02in the Gambino family. But Gravano says
42:05he was unable to convince Gotti that his
42:07high profile was putting everyone in the
42:09family at risk. Gotti loved the
42:12spotlight too much.
42:14>> I think his problem was that he uh fell
42:17in love with himself. He saw himself on
42:19television, in the newspapers, and he
42:22lost touch with what he was, that he's a
42:25gangster, not an actor.
42:28>> But by 1988, Gotti did have a starring
42:31role in the FBI's latest surveillance
42:34video outside Gotti's hangout in Little
42:36Italy, the Ravenite Social Club.
42:39>> Down the Ravenite on Malberry Street,
42:41every captain, every maid guy in the
42:43family was the report there every single
42:46week. No boss ever made the whole family
42:49show up at any one place in plain view
42:52and plain daylight. The mob doesn't work
42:55that way. They don't show up all at once
42:57and make life easy for us, which is what
42:59they did.
42:59>> I mean, nobody liked this. I don't think
43:02too many people had the courage to tell
43:04him to his face. And I would tell him,
43:05John, there's the whole government
43:07sitting outside the club. There's news
43:10people, all these people running around
43:11outside. What are we doing here? Why
43:14don't we meet 2 3:00 in the morning and
43:16try and evade some of this stuff? And he
43:18would just shut you up and say, "No, no,
43:20no. I'll show you. Watch. I'll show you
43:22how to beat cases. I'll show you how to
43:25do it."
43:26He showed us real good.
43:29>> By the way, that juror Gravano said he
43:31bribed to help John Gotti, he was
43:33eventually convicted of obstruction of
43:35justice and sentenced to 3 years in
43:37prison. Here's a new development in our
43:39story.
43:40>> Ford
43:41>> this afternoon. and the New York
43:42Attorney General filed a lawsuit against
43:44Sammy Graano as well as the author and
43:47publisher of his new book. The state
43:49believes Gravano has been paid for his
43:51story and is seeking to freeze that
43:53money so that the victims of his crimes
43:55can go after it.
43:56>> We're saying, "Show me the contract."
43:59And that very simple that very simple
44:02request has has been denied. So, it
44:05leads us to believe that the problem
44:08that we can't see the contract is
44:09because the contract clearly states out
44:11the terms of the deal that results in
44:13Gravano profiting from this book.
44:15>> Gravano has refused to discuss whether
44:17or not he's receiving money for the
44:19book, but says he'll fight the case to
44:21the Supreme Court. Of course, in order
44:23to subpoena him, they'll first have to
44:25find him. Our portrait of Sammy the Bull
44:29Gravano, the man who brought down John
44:31Gotti, will continue tomorrow night at
44:33this time on Turning Point. Here's a
44:35preview.
44:37Tomorrow, the mob trial of the century.
44:41>> Don Gotti was more popular than the
44:43president of the United States.
44:45>> The FBI tapes that helped seal Gotti's
44:47fate
44:50>> along with the betrayal by Sammy the
44:52Bull. What was the real reason you
44:54cooperated? The real reason? The
44:56intrigue, an alleged murder plot. Does
44:59Gotti know this?
45:00>> No. He's going to find out with this
45:02interview.
45:02>> Described by the mobster who, thanks to
45:04the government, has a new face. But
45:06>> I wasn't always this beautiful, tell you
45:08the truth.
45:09>> And a new life of freedom. You got a
45:12real cushy deal. Her exclusive story of
45:15betrayal in the mafia continues.
45:18>> I told him, I agree with you. He's got
45:20to go. We'll kill him.
45:22Last night on prime time, we introduced
45:24you to one of the mob's most feared
45:27executioners.
45:28>> As far as being a hitman, I actually was
45:30good at it.
45:30>> He's confessed to 19 murders, including
45:33his best friend.
45:34>> I knew the wife. I knew the children.
45:36But this is the life. He betrayed us and
45:39he was killed.
45:40>> And he told us about the John Gotti. He
45:42knew, his boss, the glamorous godfather.
45:45>> I think his problem was that he fell in
45:48love with himself. Tonight, Sammy the
45:50Bull Graano reveals what finally led him
45:52to turn on Gotti.
45:54>> Making sound like high school.
45:55>> In high school, you could throw a
45:56spitball at somebody. We use bullets.
45:59>> The FBI tapes that helped seal Gotti's
46:01fate.
46:04And after the mob trial of the century,
46:07the question, should the government have
46:09given Gravano a cushy deal?
46:12>> We attribute about 30 convictions to
46:14Sammy Gravano's testimony. Doesn't the
46:16government worry about the fact that
46:18they've let a psychopath loose
46:21>> and taxpayer funded plastic surgery?
46:23>> I wasn't always this beautiful, tell you
46:25the truth.
46:26>> And a new life free among us. But the
46:30next time you get really angry at
46:31somebody, isn't it going to be tempting
46:33to use the old solution?
46:36>> Putting a face on the enemy, says Agent
46:38Lewis Shalero. The squad itself had been
46:41really developing a pattern as to who
46:43would show up on what night, who would
46:44pay respect to whom as they as they
46:46entered the club.
46:49>> For two years, they watched.
46:52By the winter of 1988, the FBI managed
46:55to get inside the Ravenite Social Club
46:58and place an electronic bug in the main
47:00meeting room. But still, they were
47:02frustrated, puzzled.
47:04>> We would lose John Gotti. Um, we would
47:06have his voice for a moment in time and
47:08then within a minute or so we would lose
47:10it again.
47:11>> The people listening to the bugs were
47:12saying, "We don't hear John anymore. Is
47:14he out of the club?" And the
47:15surveillance guys would turn around and
47:16say, "No, we don't have him out." And it
47:18was a little confusion. Are you sure
47:20he's not out? We realized we had to find
47:22out and determine where it was he was
47:24going.
47:25>> By now, George Gabriel and 34 other
47:28agents were assigned to the case, and
47:30the FBI was tailing Gotti and Gravano
47:32almost everywhere they went. It seemed
47:35like it was increasing by the minute. I
47:37mean, from one or two cars, um, it
47:40seemed to grow to four, five, six cars,
47:42trucks, vans. Neighbors in my
47:45neighborhood would come over and tell
47:47me, you know, Sammy, there's people
47:48watching.
47:49>> The break in the investigation came when
47:51an informant told the FBI about an
47:54apartment above the Ravenite, an
47:56apartment where Gotti apparently thought
47:58he was completely safe from the
48:00authorities. It took months, but finally
48:03the FBI placed a bug in Gotti's inner
48:06sanctum.
48:12[Music]
48:13>> It was the Godfather uncensored using
48:16words he would always disavow in public.
48:19Kosinostra
48:20[Music]
48:21till I die. Be it an hour from now, be
48:23it tonight or 100 years from now.
48:27>> It was the godfather relaxed and well
48:30complaining.
48:33[Music]
48:40>> And then through the music, in the same
48:42tone of voice, it was the Godfather
48:44talking about murder.
48:48I went I knew I was being
48:53>> the conversations were very direct. They
48:55were not guarded. Talking about
48:56Kosenostra in terms that I'd never heard
48:58before. I whacked him. I had him killed.
49:01>> On one day, December 12th, 1989, Gotti
49:04talks about not one but two murders and
49:06appears to be plotting a new one.
49:09[Music]
49:16For the life of me, I can't understand
49:18why he talked about so many people and
49:22so many crimes that we have committed
49:24that openly. I mean, I guess he felt
49:26very secure there.
49:28>> John had conversations that you you
49:30wouldn't dream would occur. You couldn't
49:33ask for more. I mean, you couldn't have
49:34scripted better conversations,
49:37and it was just a euphoric uh feeling.
49:40Early evening on December 11th, 1990,
49:42the FBI made its move. As usual, Gotti
49:46was at the Ravenite meeting with his top
49:48hierarchy.
49:49>> The door bursts open and the FBI come
49:51charging in. They announced that John,
49:54myself, and Frankie Low were arrested.
49:56>> And the three of us faced 29 to 30 um
50:00top echelon Gambino captains, the
50:03hierarchy of the family uh surrounded by
50:06their soldiers.
50:07>> And John did something pretty funny. He
50:09says, "We're not putting the cuffs on.
50:10We're not doing anything." He says, "I'm
50:12having black coffee first." And he calls
50:14the coffee boy. Norman, bring me, Sammy,
50:16and Frankie a cup of uh black coffee.
50:19>> They stood and waited while he had
50:20coffee.
50:21>> Yep. All three of us had coffee and they
50:24stood there and they waited. They were
50:26perfect gentlemen about it. And then uh
50:29we left.
50:31>> Gotti had been arrested before and had
50:34beaten the system three times, but this
50:36time would be different.
50:39Good evening, guys.
50:40>> We knew it was real trouble,
50:41>> but you didn't know about the tape.
50:43>> Try and keep you in jail. They say
50:44you're in danger while you're out.
50:46>> They had it on a silver platter. I mean,
50:48he gave them the family and other
50:50families on a silver platter.
50:53>> By the way, the government also taped
50:55Gravano in his office and club. And
50:57agents told us in thousands of hours,
51:00Gravano neither incriminated himself nor
51:02said one word against John Gotti. But
51:05Gotti did not return the favor, as
51:07you'll see in a moment.
51:14>> Outside the Federal District Courthouse
51:16in Brooklyn, supporters of John Gotti
51:19turned out in force.
51:21>> The theme from the film The Godfather
51:23could be heard amid the chanting and the
51:25crush of photographers.
51:28[Applause]
51:31Celebrities like Anthony Quinn and
51:33Mickey Ror came to see the hottest show
51:35in town.
51:37>> It was the final showdown between the
51:40government and Gotti and it was
51:42inevitable, says Gotti attorney Anthony
51:45Cardonali.
51:46>> The government's idea is that Mr. Gotti
51:48operated his own government outside of
51:52theirs. John Gotti was more popular than
51:54the president of the United States in
51:56their eyes and that was the reason why
51:58it was a win at any cost uh prosecution.
52:03>> The nation's most famous mobster had
52:06been charged with 13 counts, including
52:08the murder of mob boss Paul Castellano
52:10and four others. The jury was
52:13sequestered under 24-hour guard to make
52:15sure that this time no juror could be
52:17bought or intimidated.
52:19To this day, their names have never been
52:21released. And then on March 2nd, 1992,
52:25Sammy the Bull Gravano arrived in a
52:27bulletproof van surrounded by armed
52:29guards to testify against his former
52:32boss.
52:34>> A surprise to you?
52:36>> Just a year and a half earlier when they
52:37were first arrested, John Gotti, Sammy
52:40Gravano, and Frankie Lacassio had been a
52:42united force, the top hierarchy of the
52:44Gambino crime family.
52:47They were taken to the Metropolitan
52:49Correctional Center in downtown
52:51Manhattan, knowing they could be facing
52:53life in prison.
52:55>> I said, "John, if we lose this case, I'm
52:58going out the window. We could escape."
53:02And he looks at me and he says, "Out the
53:04window? We're on the 11th floor. What if
53:08we fall?" So he says, "No, no, Sammy,
53:10listen to me." He says, "I got another
53:11plan." He says, "Down the road." He
53:14says, "We'll put together four or five
53:15million." He says, "We'll bribe a
53:17president and we'll get a pardon like
53:20Hafa did." I said, "Well, if you don't
53:23mind, if that's your plan, if you don't
53:25mind, if I go with my plan,
53:27>> but there was no escape." And as they
53:30sat in prison, seeds of conflict began
53:32taking root, mainly because of those FBI
53:35tapes.
53:36>> What did you hear?
53:37>> The backstabbing and the lies.
53:39>> Gravano says he listened in disbelief as
53:42Gotti badmouthed him. On one tape there
53:45was a tirade about Gravano's lucrative
53:47business deals.
53:49>> And I told you
53:53it slow it down a notch you 15
53:59companies.
54:00You got reop you got concrete floor. You
54:03got fire now. You got construction. You
54:06got
54:08you got something next.
54:10>> Keeps complaining to Frankie. He was
54:12bitching and moaning about me.
54:14[Music]
54:17And Gotti not only complained about
54:18Gravano's businesses, he repeatedly laid
54:21off the motive for the murders to his
54:24under boss.
54:26[Music]
54:32>> And you sensed he was going to blame the
54:35murders on you.
54:36>> Well, the t the tapes, just like you're
54:38saying right now, sound like it's in
54:40other words, poor John Gotti. He lost
54:42control of Sammy Nol. He's killing
54:44people. He's got green eyes. He's taking
54:47the money down. He's got a big crew.
54:49He's completely taken over. Poor John
54:52Gotti. So, the theory is by the lawyers
54:55that the jurors could look at it that
54:57way. The public could look at it that
54:59way and maybe maybe just maybe John
55:02Gotti could be acquitted.
55:04>> Gravano says he became convinced that he
55:07would be the fall guy at the trial.
55:09Still, he maintains he would have been
55:11loyal to the end had Gotti only
55:13apologized.
55:15>> If he would have said once, once in
55:18prison, the whole 11 months, "Geez,
55:20Sammy, I'm sorry. My big mount, you got
55:22indicted. Let's see how we can fight
55:24this case for somebody to win. I
55:27wouldn't be sitting with you. I'd
55:28probably be doing life in prison." I
55:30would have never cooperated.
55:32>> Did you ever go to him and talk to him
55:34about the tapes?
55:35>> What did he say?
55:37>> It's your fault. You made me mad and I
55:39was talking out of my out of my ass is
55:42what he said. I'm trying to think of
55:43another word, but that's what he said.
55:45And I'm just blowing off steam.
55:49In the meantime, when you blew off
55:50steam, I was arrested on your steam.
55:55>> Gvano says, "For the first time, he
55:57began to believe he was a marked man,
55:59even if he were freed." And I realized
56:02that John probably eventually would take
56:05me out for no other reason but he wants
56:08one show, one boss of John Gotti. He
56:12don't want anybody to be his equal. He
56:15don't want anybody uh in any way, shape
56:18or form to shine. And I guess I was
56:21shining too much.
56:23You're
56:23>> making it sound like high school.
56:26>> Yeah, but the only thing is that in high
56:28school you could throw a a spitball at
56:30somebody. We use boats.
56:33>> He says Gotti became so paranoid and
56:36verbally abusive in prison that Frankie
56:38Lassio came to him with a proposal
56:42>> and he said, "When I get out, if we beat
56:45this case, I'm going to kill him."
56:49I thought about it for a second and I
56:51told him,
56:53"I agree with you. He's got to go." I
56:56said, "But I'm going to tell you one
56:57thing. I've done too much. I'm not gonna
57:00take anybody as the boss of the family.
57:03We kill him, I'm taking over.
57:07He shook my hand. He kissed me. He
57:09hugged me. And he told me, he says, "I
57:10just want one thing.
57:13I want to be the guy to pull the
57:14trigger."
57:15>> Does God know this about him that he
57:16said this to you?
57:17>> No. He's going to No. He's going to find
57:20out with this interview.
57:22>> Did you just seal
57:24Frankie Lazio's fate?
57:27>> Frankie will probably deny it. I'll
57:28probably say a rat. He's lying. But he
57:32could do that.
57:34He'll survive.
57:36>> After almost a year in prison, Gravano
57:39made the decision that would bring down
57:41John Gotti in a different way.
57:44>> When did you decide to cooperate?
57:46>> What was the moment?
57:48>> I decided that enough was enough. I made
57:51a list of people that we would have to
57:53kill
57:55so that there would be no
57:57retaliation. And the list consisted of
58:00his brother Jeie who I really like, his
58:02brother Pete.
58:05The thought of killing his son sickening
58:07me to tell you the truth.
58:09>> So you figured there were how many
58:10people you had?
58:11>> About 10, 12, 14 people more. I looked
58:15at the list. I guess I looked at myself
58:18and I did some soularching.
58:20I ripped the list up. I threw it down
58:22the bowl and I made arrangements to call
58:26uh and get in touch with the FBI.
58:29>> We were very suspicious initially.
58:31>> George Gabriel, one of the FBI agents
58:33who had arrested Jean Gotti, was there
58:35when Gravano agreed to turn, promising
58:37to tell everything about his 23 years in
58:40the mob.
58:41>> We were actually looking for what the
58:42trap was here. Somebody was lulling us
58:44into this was a John Gotti trick to
58:48deter us from the work we were doing to
58:50firm up our case and and give us a
58:52sidetrack and a sideline.
58:54We didn't expect it. We didn't believe
58:56it initially uh until we started dealing
58:58with him and found out he was on the
59:00level.
59:01>> This is the deal Gravano and the
59:03government worked out. Instead of life
59:05in prison, Gravano would get a maximum
59:07of 20 years in exchange for complete
59:09cooperation.
59:11Then Graano made a surprising request.
59:14He wanted to stay two more weeks in
59:16prison with Gotti before his betrayal
59:18was revealed.
59:19>> And they told me,
59:22"What if he killed
59:25walking out?" I says, "I guess then we
59:26don't have a deal."
59:28>> Why did you want to go back?
59:30>> Why did I want to go back? I wanted to
59:34tell my family
59:37on a visit that I was going uh to
59:40cooperate and leave.
59:42And I did that. Probably one of the
59:44hardest things I ever did.
59:48It was only my wife and my daughter and
59:51both of them broke down crying and
59:54didn't want me to do it.
59:55>> Afraid for you. afraid for me, afraid
59:59for the kids, afraid for the whole
1:00:00situation.
1:00:02It just wasn't the way to them. I guess
1:00:04the law enforcement was the enemy, and I
1:00:06was switching camps. It just hit them
1:00:09and devastated them.
1:00:12>> For 2 weeks, his secret held. Then at
1:00:151:00 a.m. on November 8th, agents walked
1:00:18him out of the prison.
1:00:19>> I just couldn't believe if what I was
1:00:22doing, where I was going, everything was
1:00:24moving 100 miles an hour. Gotti knew
1:00:27that night, from what I understand, a
1:00:29guard in the prison slipped a note or a
1:00:33letter under his uh cell door
1:00:36and said that uh Sammy was taken out by
1:00:39the FBI.
1:00:41>> The next time Gravano would see John
1:00:43Gotti would be a year and a half later
1:00:45at the federal courthouse.
1:00:47>> I knew it was going to be like World War
1:00:48II. I'll never forget walking through
1:00:50the door. I mean, the only thing I heard
1:00:52was my own heart pumping away.
1:00:53>> It was a very, very dramatic moment.
1:00:55Here comes Gravano. We hadn't seen him
1:00:57since the day that he decided to
1:00:59cooperate. And he comes in linked by a
1:01:02massive array of FBI agents that had
1:01:04been brought in,
1:01:05>> orchestrated by the government to have
1:01:07that impact and that drama.
1:01:09>> Gravano took the stand and we were all
1:01:11watching the first exchange, you know,
1:01:12of eyes between Gravano and and Gotti.
1:01:15>> Did you look at Gotti?
1:01:17>> Yeah. He had this icy glare
1:01:21that he was staring at me to try to, I
1:01:23guess, intimidate me. uh with
1:01:28it didn't work. We growled at each other
1:01:31a couple of times during the trial. We
1:01:32know what we want to do to each other. I
1:01:34mean, it's clear.
1:01:36>> For 9 days, Gravano mesmerized the court
1:01:38with his stories of the mob and murder
1:01:41and his interpretation of the tapes.
1:01:44the last night.
1:01:47[Music]
1:01:49>> This Louis Deono you're talking about.
1:01:51It's not that he's a legitimate guy who
1:01:53don't know what's going on. He's a made
1:01:55guy. He knows what he's doing. He's not
1:01:57showing up when the boss uh calls him.
1:02:00It's a lifestyle. And these are the
1:02:02rules and regulations you live with. And
1:02:04when you break some of the rules and
1:02:06regulations, you know
1:02:09the consequences of them. The principal
1:02:11aim of the defense lawyers was to
1:02:13discredit Gravano. He's a serial killer,
1:02:16they argued, with a motive to kill and a
1:02:18motive to lie.
1:02:20>> A number of these murders were for his
1:02:22own purposes. And yet, he came up with a
1:02:25story that somehow made them so-called
1:02:27enterprise related, and that's the only
1:02:28way the federal government could give
1:02:30him a pass.
1:02:31>> But the government's case didn't rely
1:02:33solely on Gravano's word. They had
1:02:36Gotti's words on all those audio tapes.
1:02:39One of them he's talking about Deonardo.
1:02:41I was in jail when I whacked him. I knew
1:02:44why it was being done. I done it anyway.
1:02:47>> Can I tell you something about the
1:02:48tapes? First of all, that's the
1:02:50government's version of the tape. I
1:02:53dispute that that's the language on the
1:02:55tape.
1:02:56>> The defense attorneys also argued that
1:02:58on the tapes, you can hear Gotti
1:03:00complaining that Gravano instigated the
1:03:02murders, that Gravano was the one who
1:03:04moved in on the businesses of those
1:03:06who'd been killed. one of the 15
1:03:08companies for Christ sake.
1:03:10>> If you have something Gravano wants, he
1:03:12takes it from you. And if he can't take
1:03:14it from you just by grabbing it, he'll
1:03:16kill you for it.
1:03:17>> There are a lot of people who think that
1:03:19you had the motive,
1:03:22>> but it's got nothing to do with money or
1:03:24greed. That's not true.
1:03:26>> How do we know that?
1:03:27>> Take my word for it. Why would I kill my
1:03:30very closest and best friend for an
1:03:33extra 20,000, 50,000, 100,000 a year
1:03:36when I'm making in the millions?
1:03:39>> But I mean, people who have money tend
1:03:40to want more money,
1:03:42>> but they don't always kill their
1:03:43partners. And I wouldn't kill my partner
1:03:45for that. Louis Molo got killed because
1:03:48he betrayed our group.
1:03:52I saved his life. who let him live for a
1:03:55while until John said it was enough was
1:03:58enough.
1:03:59>> How many of the eight murders that
1:04:02Graano says he committed
1:04:05while he was serving under John Gotti as
1:04:07boss of the Gambino family? How many of
1:04:09those would you argue that that Gotti
1:04:13approved?
1:04:14>> None.
1:04:15>> None.
1:04:18>> Well,
1:04:18>> so therefore therefore are you saying
1:04:22that Mr. Gotti was too weak to stop.
1:04:27>> You know, the main problem right-hand
1:04:29man,
1:04:30>> the activity took place well before his
1:04:32introduction or involvement, if you
1:04:33will, or friendship, if you will, with
1:04:35Mr. Gotti.
1:04:36>> Well, eight of them took place after Mr.
1:04:39Gotti became the boss of the Gambino
1:04:41family, according to published report.
1:04:43>> But, but you know, the problem is that
1:04:44we're lawyers. Um, we we deal with
1:04:47whether or not the government has met
1:04:48their burden of proof in a courtroom. um
1:04:50we we really can't get into these other
1:04:52issues.
1:04:53>> If Sammy Gravano was this wild, ruthless
1:04:56killer, John Gotti would have had him
1:04:57killed. John Gotti would not allow
1:04:59anybody um in his family to break those
1:05:02rules and go around killing people and
1:05:04be this vicious animal that they tried
1:05:06to portray him to be without killing him
1:05:09himself.
1:05:09>> It would take the jury less than two
1:05:11days to bring in a verdict. On April
1:05:132nd, 1992, John Gotti was convicted of
1:05:16raketeering and murder.
1:05:18[Applause]
1:05:21The reaction outside was mayhem.
1:05:24>> Gotti supporters overturned cars,
1:05:26smashed windows.
1:05:28>> I said it in the court. I say it here.
1:05:31Our country is sick to the core if it is
1:05:35willing to pay for testimony by
1:05:38literally
1:05:40absolving a person of 19 confessed
1:05:43murders.
1:05:43>> My father is the last of the Migans.
1:05:46They don't make men like him anymore.
1:05:47They never will. The teflon is gone. The
1:05:50dawn is covered with Velcro and every
1:05:52charge in the indictment stuck.
1:05:55>> When did you hear about the verdict?
1:05:57>> I think the day it happened.
1:05:59>> Did you feel pleasure?
1:06:01>> No, not at all.
1:06:03>> Not at all.
1:06:04>> What was it?
1:06:05>> Total disgust of everything. My my life,
1:06:08their lives, the mob.
1:06:11This is the end result of everything.
1:06:15On June 23rd, 1992, John Gotti, once the
1:06:18most powerful godfather, was sentenced
1:06:21to life without parole.
1:06:24>> I think history will show that he took
1:06:26down He took down with his mouth hair
1:06:30for the mob and his flamboyant style.
1:06:33>> Wait a minute. He took down with his
1:06:35mouth.
1:06:35>> Yeah.
1:06:36>> I'm sitting with Sammy the Bull Gravano
1:06:38here. Who's calling whom?
1:06:42>> The betrayer. I'm sure there's a lot of
1:06:44guys in prison who were smart enough to
1:06:46understand what John Gotti did by
1:06:49bringing the entire mob and putting it
1:06:53out in public view half destroyed it. He
1:06:56has to take credit for the tapes and the
1:06:59videos. I'll take credit for the stand.
1:07:02We partners. We started off as partners.
1:07:05We ended up as partners. I guess
1:07:08>> Sammy Grabbano would go on to testify in
1:07:11six more trials and he was a powerful
1:07:13witness helping convict 38 people
1:07:16including the bosses of two crime
1:07:18families, 11 captains, a crooked cop and
1:07:21the head of a New York Teamsters local.
1:07:23And one more thing, Frankie Lassio
1:07:25through his lawyer did deny that he ever
1:07:27plotted to kill John Gad. His lawyer
1:07:30said Graano's claim was absurd. Sammy
1:07:33Gravano had a hand in the murders of 19
1:07:35men. The FBI says all of his hits were
1:07:38mob related. Last night, you heard from
1:07:41the daughters of some of those who were
1:07:43killed, women outraged that Gravano was
1:07:45free. We were intrigued by them and
1:07:48wanted to know more about their lives at
1:07:49home, more about their not quite average
1:07:52American families.
1:07:54>> Well, we we were definitely not the
1:07:56Cleavers,
1:07:57>> but Cindy De Bernardo, who grew up in
1:07:59this vast mansion, says it was Father
1:08:02Knows Best with a twist. You know, I was
1:08:05a young girl and all of a sudden you're
1:08:07going to school and people are like
1:08:09they're making fun of you. Oh, you're
1:08:10going to get your mafia daddy after me
1:08:12and this and that and not knowing. Well,
1:08:14what do you mean? What are you talking?
1:08:16And then you have to be afraid to go
1:08:17home and ask a question like that. Like,
1:08:19well, how do you ask your daddy that?
1:08:22>> Did you?
1:08:23>> I did. And
1:08:24>> and um his answer to me was, "Would you
1:08:28be ashamed if I was?" I said, "No." He
1:08:31said, "Would you be ashamed if I
1:08:33wasn't?" I said no and that's how we
1:08:36left it.
1:08:37>> She was 19 when he disappeared. The FBI
1:08:40says Robert Deonardo not only helped
1:08:43control the Teamsters labor union for
1:08:44the mob, he was one of New York's kings
1:08:47of pornography.
1:08:49>> And today, what do you believe?
1:08:52>> I believe my father was a hard worker
1:08:54and he worked and worked and worked
1:08:58until he made his own little empire. And
1:09:01the rest of it, the mafia connections.
1:09:03Do you believe that?
1:09:04>> That's my daddy. And you can't tell me
1:09:06anything bad about him.
1:09:08>> The FBI says Laura and Karen Gafalo's
1:09:11dad was an associate in the Gambino
1:09:13family.
1:09:14>> He drove a Rolls-Royce. He drove a
1:09:16flashy car. He wore a flashy watch. He
1:09:19he wore alligator shoes. And I mean, he
1:09:22loved the finer things in life. We ate
1:09:24in amazing restaurants.
1:09:26>> Laura works at a daycare center. Karen
1:09:28is an elementary school teacher.
1:09:30They thought their father only dealt
1:09:32with criminals on the edges as they say
1:09:35New York contractors have to do. We
1:09:37>> we probably believe that if there was
1:09:40somebody that need that had to be paid,
1:09:42if that's how you got jobs at the time,
1:09:44then he did that.
1:09:45>> Nothing was hidden. We knew the people
1:09:47he dealt with. We also knew that he was
1:09:50a protected guy, that, you know, nothing
1:09:52bad should happen to him.
1:09:55>> The women all tell of uncommonly close
1:09:57families with dad at the very center. He
1:10:00was a great man, a great father, a great
1:10:02friend.
1:10:04>> And how did you live?
1:10:06>> We lived regular.
1:10:09And I thought we were regular. I mean,
1:10:13the man, we had to have dinner every
1:10:15night, 5:45. Not a minute after, not a
1:10:18minute sooner.
1:10:19>> Dina Malito was also 19 when her father
1:10:22disappeared without a trace. The FBI
1:10:24says Louis Molito was a made member of
1:10:27the Gambino family. Two years ago, she
1:10:30heard that FBI agents were [ __ ] up a
1:10:32parking lot on a tip that a body was
1:10:34buried there. And she went to the site
1:10:38and I said, "Is this my father's body
1:10:42that you're looking for?"
1:10:46And he told me, "Yes."
1:10:51>> And you stayed and waited.
1:10:53>> Mhm. And I went back every day.
1:10:58They never found his body.
1:11:02>> The women say there are more than a
1:11:03dozen families who have joined together
1:11:06even though there are reports that some
1:11:08of the murdered men once conspired
1:11:10against each other. How do you know what
1:11:12to believe and how to come together with
1:11:16all of these?
1:11:16>> We left that on Saturday when we met and
1:11:19I'm sure we all walked in the room
1:11:22apprehensive about each other. had your
1:11:25father been present when my father was
1:11:27killed, had my father been present and
1:11:29so on and so on. And um we left that at
1:11:32the door
1:11:34and we found unity in each other and
1:11:36support in each other.
1:11:39>> And when it comes to the mafia, these
1:11:41children of murdered fathers have a kind
1:11:43of code of silence of their own.
1:11:46>> And you don't hate it for what
1:11:49what happened to your father is out of
1:11:51it. Whatever they're involved,
1:11:52>> the the mafia.
1:11:53>> Yes.
1:11:54>> No. No,
1:11:55>> we all hold Sammy Gravano responsible.
1:11:59>> On April 19th, 1995, Sammy Gravano
1:12:02walked out of the Arizona prison where
1:12:04he'd been confined in a special witness
1:12:05unit. He had just turned 50.
1:12:09For the next 8 months, he would live as
1:12:11a phantom in the witness protection
1:12:13program, moving around by roots, using
1:12:16different names, hidden but free. You
1:12:19>> know, you get out of New York. when you
1:12:21get out of there. I mean, the people,
1:12:22there's so many nice people. I mean, I
1:12:24went to states where people actually
1:12:26stop a car and tell you to go ahead,
1:12:28walk, walk across the street.
1:12:30>> Do you see the irony in Sammy the Bull,
1:12:33please, that people have nice manners?
1:12:35>> Maybe because you're not a mob still,
1:12:36you never was. and you don't understand
1:12:39the life like I understand the life to
1:12:42get up every single day in a week and
1:12:45just think about who's going to kill you
1:12:46or who you're going to kill or who you
1:12:48going to rob and what's going to go on
1:12:50and it takes some stepping back from it.
1:12:53It takes some getting away from it to
1:12:55realize certain things.
1:12:57>> As part of his arrangement with the
1:12:58government, he also received some
1:13:00unusual benefits at taxpayers expense.
1:13:04>> Plastic surgery. You had some?
1:13:06>> Yeah. I wasn't always this beautiful,
1:13:09tell you the truth. My nose was busted a
1:13:12few times and calcium built around it. I
1:13:15couldn't breathe. And uh
1:13:18part of it was uh to fix that. And um
1:13:24while I was there, I went with a
1:13:26top-notch plastic surgeon and I did a
1:13:29little nip and tuck.
1:13:30>> The government did pay for the plastic
1:13:32surgery, right?
1:13:33>> Yeah. But you look I mean
1:13:36>> I look like Sammy.
1:13:37>> You look like Sammy. Little different. A
1:13:39little different. That's what I tell
1:13:40people. I look like him.
1:13:42>> This is what makes working or or even
1:13:45owning a business for that matter. Very
1:13:48very difficult, very hard for me.
1:13:50>> Did you think about getting enough that
1:13:51you'd be completely disguised?
1:13:54>> Did completely change?
1:13:55>> Yeah,
1:13:57>> I really did. At one point, I asked the
1:13:59plastic surgeon if it was possible to
1:14:01look like uh Robert Redford, but when he
1:14:04told me no, then I just stayed with what
1:14:07I had.
1:14:08>> We wanted to ask the US Marshalss why
1:14:10they agreed to pay for cosmetic surgery
1:14:13that didn't disguise his appearance, but
1:14:15they declined our request for an
1:14:16interview. It's just one of the
1:14:19questions being asked today about the US
1:14:21government's treatment of Gravano and
1:14:23what ends justify what means.
1:14:26Under the terms of his deal with the
1:14:28government, Gravano could have served up
1:14:29to 20 years in prison. But the US
1:14:32attorney's office, the FBI, and two US
1:14:35senators rallied behind him, praising
1:14:37his cooperation.
1:14:38In the end, his testimony was crucial in
1:14:41convicting Gotti and 37 other mobsters
1:14:43and associates. Judge Leo Glasser said
1:14:46Graano had been instrumental in breaking
1:14:49what he called the suffocating hold of
1:14:51organized crime. He then reduced
1:14:54Gravano's sentence to just 5 years, 60
1:14:57months for a man who had confessed to 19
1:14:59murders.
1:15:01You got a real cushy deal.
1:15:04>> Only because I proved myself. I could
1:15:06have did 20 years. Judge Glasser told
1:15:09the news media,
1:15:11"What would you rather have if we didn't
1:15:13make a deal with Sammy? Would you rather
1:15:15have John Gotti on the street running a
1:15:18family? Would you rather have Johnny
1:15:21Gambino
1:15:22running trafficking heroin from Italy to
1:15:26the United States? Would you rather this
1:15:29strangle hole continue on unions
1:15:32associations in every way, shape, and
1:15:35form? 19 murders and 5 years in jail,
1:15:38the judge had to say something such as
1:15:41he loosened the strangle hold of the
1:15:42mob. That's just poppyccock. I mean,
1:15:44it's nonsense. All this was was John
1:15:48Gotti being led up to the altar for
1:15:51sacrifice and to give the kind of
1:15:54benefit and the kind of prize they gave
1:15:56Gravano I think is a sin. I think he
1:15:59threw the most powerful punch at the mob
1:16:03because the option for every mobster
1:16:05throughout the country as time will go
1:16:07along will say what would I rather do?
1:16:10Would I rather be John Gotti and go to
1:16:13prison and
1:16:15do the rest of my life in prison or
1:16:17would I rather take this route and um
1:16:22get myself and my family and everything
1:16:23else away from the mob once and for all?
1:16:27>> He has admitted to 19 murders. It's
1:16:30almost like he's rewarded. So that means
1:16:33that I could go out today and go murder
1:16:36a whole bunch of people, but if I know
1:16:38so to say some major crime figure and I
1:16:41tell on him, that means that they're
1:16:43going to pat me on the back and say,
1:16:44"You're a good girl, Cindy. Now you can
1:16:46go home. You can live happily ever
1:16:48after." And then you could write a book,
1:16:50too. And then you could make millions of
1:16:51dollars off of other people's misery.
1:16:55The families of the murdered men say it
1:16:57has only added insult to injustice that
1:17:00Gravano also now has a book on the
1:17:02stands.
1:17:03>> We just don't want him to see a dime of
1:17:07the book money. That's
1:17:08>> Laura Gafalo and her sister Karen are
1:17:10filing a civil lawsuit against Gravano
1:17:12for wrongful death. Together with Dina
1:17:15Malito, they started phoning organizing
1:17:17victims families to make sure Gravano
1:17:20doesn't profit from the book he's
1:17:21written with author Peter Moss.
1:17:24I have not issued a uh single check or
1:17:28advanced Sammy Gravano a penny in cash
1:17:32in connection with this book under boss.
1:17:37I don't know if anybody else has.
1:17:40>> We assume that Gravano has made a deal
1:17:42for a share of the proceeds of this
1:17:44obscene new book that's coming out.
1:17:46>> Last month in a Coney Island restaurant,
1:17:48the families all came face to face for
1:17:50the first time.
1:17:52Attorney Ronald Kubie has joined the
1:17:54fight
1:17:55>> and we're going to encourage the crime
1:17:56victims board and the attorney general
1:17:59to actually go ahead and seize the
1:18:01profits from those crimes.
1:18:04>> Yesterday, the attorney general's office
1:18:06and the board filed suit to recover any
1:18:08money Gravano may have received as part
1:18:10of a book deal. If indeed Salvatore
1:18:14Gavano is not going to earn any profit
1:18:18from this endeavor, then show us the
1:18:20contract. And that very simple that very
1:18:24simple request has has been denied. So
1:18:28it leads us to believe that the problem
1:18:30that we can't see the contract is
1:18:32because the contract clearly states out
1:18:33the terms of the deal that results in
1:18:36Gravano profiting from this book.
1:18:39He wouldn't tell us if he's being paid,
1:18:41but says he'll fight the New York Son of
1:18:43Sam law that could keep him from making
1:18:45money from the book. But what about the
1:18:48millions? He says he made off a life of
1:18:50crime.
1:18:52>> Do you have money?
1:18:54>> You need a loan?
1:18:57>> How much do you have?
1:18:58>> I have a few dollars.
1:19:00>> 8 million I read in the paper.
1:19:02>> Well, that's not true. That's not true.
1:19:04I don't even know where to get these
1:19:05stories from.
1:19:06>> But they let you keep your money. It's
1:19:07not that they let me keep my money.
1:19:09Nobody ever, you know, when I was
1:19:10indicted before I cooperated. They they
1:19:13indicted us for crimes. Nobody was
1:19:15looking to take our money. Why would
1:19:17anybody look to take my money now?
1:19:18Nobody's taking John's money. He's in
1:19:21prison. Nobody's going after his money.
1:19:24Why should they come after mine?
1:19:25>> Did you bring down the mob?
1:19:27>> I think I exposed the mob more than
1:19:29anybody has ever exposed the mob.
1:19:30>> A lot of obituaries being written for
1:19:32it. Are they too soon?
1:19:34>> I think so. You'll never eliminate it.
1:19:38>> No, I don't think so. As long as you
1:19:41have greed and power and I don't think
1:19:46you'll eliminate it. The only thing is I
1:19:48think you'll put people into play who
1:19:50don't have the heritage. They're not
1:19:52being schooled by the old-timers
1:19:54anymore. I don't think they're more into
1:19:57not even dealing drugs, but taking
1:19:58drugs, using drugs. You know, this is
1:20:01exactly
1:20:02>> this is the complaint about no family
1:20:06values.
1:20:07>> Yeah, it is. You run a muck with no
1:20:10family values.
1:20:12>> Since Sammy Gravano turned in 1990, the
1:20:15government has continued its assault on
1:20:17organized crime in New York, moving to
1:20:19clean up the garment and waste carding
1:20:21industries, the fish market, the
1:20:23convention center. And in the current
1:20:25disarray, older mobsters are said to be
1:20:27going back to the streets to concentrate
1:20:29on gambling, lone sharking, bookmaking,
1:20:31and narcotics. While the younger,
1:20:34sharper soldiers are said to be getting
1:20:36into white collar crime, bail fraud,
1:20:38phony mortgage companies,
1:20:40over-the-counter stock scams on Wall
1:20:42Street. And of course, new members
1:20:44continue to be inducted.
1:20:46As for John Gotti, he has been trying to
1:20:49get a new trial, claiming Sammy Gravano
1:20:51lied on the stand. A charge Gravano
1:20:53denies. And last week, Gotti's fourth
1:20:56motion for a new trial was denied.
1:21:04>> John Gotti, the boss of the most
1:21:06powerful organized crime family in
1:21:07America, is now serving life without
1:21:10parole. He spent the last 5 years at the
1:21:12Maran Federal Penitentiary in Illinois.
1:21:15It too has a reputation for toughness.
1:21:18>> Mr. Gotti is kept in a tiny little cell.
1:21:20It has no chair in it. It only has a
1:21:22bed. He's in there 23 hours a day. It is
1:21:26deprivation on the on the degree of a
1:21:28Russian goolog. Worse.
1:21:31>> He's allowed out of his cell just 12
1:21:33hours a week. Visits are through
1:21:35plexiglass.
1:21:37His wardrobe now prison issued khakis.
1:21:40We're told by his attorneys he does
1:21:421,000 push-ups every day.
1:21:45If the government was thinking that if
1:21:47we sensorally deprive this man, if they
1:21:51thought that was going to break him, in
1:21:52fact, what he what it has done, it has
1:21:54made him much stronger. The I've never
1:21:56seen anything like it. We go to see him,
1:21:58he cheers us up.
1:21:59>> You sorry about him.
1:22:02Does he deserve it?
1:22:07>> What do you think? After we what we did,
1:22:10what do you think?
1:22:14As far as society is concerned, we all
1:22:17deserve it.
1:22:19>> While Gotti is officially still boss of
1:22:21the Gambino family, 33-year-old John Jr.
1:22:24is reportedly acting boss. News reports
1:22:28say John Gotti has sworn to avenge his
1:22:31father on your head. John Gotti Jr.
1:22:35>> I I guess that's the way he would feel,
1:22:38but we're not talking about a boxing
1:22:39match. If he finds me, somebody's going
1:22:42home in a body bag.
1:22:45Maybe me.
1:22:47We'll see.
1:22:48>> That's preposterous. No one's going to
1:22:50come after him. Indeed, I can't imagine
1:22:52a sillier thing for someone to do if if
1:22:54Gravano got hurt or killed tomorrow.
1:22:56Who's the first guy they're going to
1:22:57blame with it but John Gotti? If Gotti
1:23:00is not after him, what about the friends
1:23:02of Frankie Lassio, who's serving life
1:23:05without parole at a prison in Terode,
1:23:07Indiana, or the dozens of other captains
1:23:10and soldiers of Kosinostra, also in
1:23:12prison because of Sammy Garvano.
1:23:15>> Obviously, Sammy is at a great deal of
1:23:16risk beyond which we're not going to
1:23:18comment. Sammy still, you know, is out
1:23:20there. We're not going to comment beyond
1:23:21that.
1:23:24>> The FBI C16 unit now operates out of
1:23:27this office building in Queens. Their
1:23:29star witness says they never once lied
1:23:31to him.
1:23:33>> Thank God I dealt with a great team of
1:23:35FBI agents and and and prosecutors and
1:23:38people who lived up to their word. Uh
1:23:41and they just made me stronger and
1:23:43stronger in my resolve to uh change my
1:23:46life and go in a different direction.
1:23:50>> You have a wife and two children.
1:23:52>> An ex-wife and two children.
1:23:54>> How do they feel about you today?
1:23:57>> I think they still love me.
1:23:59I think they still care for me.
1:24:01>> Are you in contact with them?
1:24:03>> I call on occasion to see how my
1:24:05children are doing.
1:24:06>> They didn't come with you into witness
1:24:07protection.
1:24:08>> No, she made a decision as a mother to
1:24:11stay with her children.
1:24:13>> And his wife must also live with
1:24:15something she only learned in recent
1:24:16years. That when her brother was
1:24:18brutally murdered, her husband was
1:24:21there.
1:24:22>> I think she was in a little bit of shock
1:24:24over it, but she really didn't say too
1:24:26much about it. A little bit of shock.
1:24:29>> Mhm.
1:24:32>> Yeah. I think Gravado is going to return
1:24:35to a life of crime. I think the seeds
1:24:36were planted before he left and I think
1:24:38he has everything mapped out and as soon
1:24:40as as he is no longer the centerpiece of
1:24:43media attention in his book has reaped
1:24:45what other benefits it gives to him. But
1:24:47Gravana will be back to his old trade.
1:24:49>> The scary thing is that he's got a
1:24:51lifetime pass. In my view, the
1:24:54government's going to be hardressed to
1:24:55bring this maniac back into court. And
1:24:58because it's an admission, hey, we
1:25:00screwed up.
1:25:02>> After less than a year in the witness
1:25:04protection program, Graano opted out.
1:25:08>> You can't be in touch with anybody.
1:25:10There's certain rules and regulations
1:25:12that um I don't want to live with. I
1:25:15didn't even want to go in the in the
1:25:16witness protection program from day one.
1:25:18When I was sentenced, I wanted to come
1:25:20out of jail and just go about my life.
1:25:22The government sat me down in meetings
1:25:24and and literally almost begged me to go
1:25:26into it.
1:25:28>> What do you do now? What is your life
1:25:31now?
1:25:32>> I still work out. I jog. I lift some
1:25:35weights.
1:25:37>> You don't use your real name.
1:25:39>> No.
1:25:40>> No one knows where you live.
1:25:42>> I hope
1:25:45>> you move around.
1:25:46>> I move around.
1:25:48move out into crowds.
1:25:50>> I move in crowds
1:25:53>> unnoticed
1:25:55>> hopefully.
1:25:56[Music]
1:25:58>> I'm having fun with my life. I go in a
1:26:00in a positive direction. I just live a
1:26:03life like a normal human being should
1:26:05live their life and I sit down and I
1:26:07smoke a cigar and I relax and I just I
1:26:10love life.
1:26:13>> Isn't the game though to wait until
1:26:15you're relaxed? to wait until your love
1:26:17in life,
1:26:19>> right? But uh
1:26:21I was a master at that game
1:26:24>> and I'm not going to walk into that game
1:26:26that easy.
1:26:28[Music]
1:26:31>> Verano has now relocated once again.
1:26:34Since he's no longer in the witness
1:26:35protection program, there are no limits
1:26:37where he can travel within the United
1:26:39States.
1:26:41At the time this airs,
1:26:44>> big TV interview book coming out. Where
1:26:47are you going to be?
1:26:49>> In Calamazoo.
1:26:51I I really don't know. I'm going to
1:26:53completely uh tuck under for a while,
1:26:57I guess, for a couple of years and uh
1:27:00I'll just live my life behind the scenes
1:27:02and just watch it all go by.
1:27:04>> But the next time you get really angry
1:27:06at somebody, isn't it going to be
1:27:07tempting to use the old solution?
1:27:10That's what brought my life to a a
1:27:13disaster in the first place. And you
1:27:14don't think I'm stupid enough to start
1:27:16doing that again?
1:27:19No. I I I am Samiable. I was that then,
1:27:22I am now. I'm I'm this I'm basically the
1:27:25same person,
1:27:26but I've changed direction.
1:27:30If I got mad at somebody, I would just
1:27:32walk away. I just leave.
1:27:35I'm freer now, I think, than I've ever
1:27:37been.
1:27:39There's no goes in Austria to protect.
1:27:41There's no orders to come down from the
1:27:43boss to kill somebody.
1:27:47The only way you can put me in that
1:27:49situation is with the hit team. When
1:27:52they come,
1:27:54it's going to be me or them.
1:27:58If that ever happens, hopefully it never
1:28:00will.

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