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⚫⚪ SAFiel EM CAMPO #18 | ATUALIZAÇÃO GERAL DO PROJETO — Transcript

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0:34Hey everyone, good evening. Welcome,
0:36everyone. Starting another live show
0:40here on Voz da Arquibancada FC, on
0:43Arquibancada 1910, and on Safiel's
0:45official channel. If you're not
0:48subscribed to any of these channels,
0:51please subscribe, okay? Let's go. Today
0:54we're bringing in Carlos Teixeira and
0:56Eduardo Saluci. We're going to have a
1:00chat to update everyone, including
1:03myself, on the latest events and
1:05everything that's been happening with
1:08Safiel. Uh, what were the latest steps,
1:12right, that they took in the project.
1:14It's been about three weeks since we
1:16last did Safiel in Field, so I'm sure
1:19it will be a very important chat, with
1:21a lot of new information. And I wanted
1:24to start by making an agreement with
1:26you all. We've been receiving many
1:29messages, right, about Safiel, but
1:31questions that we've already answered
1:34countless times, right, over time. So,
1:38I'd like to invite you who are arriving
1:41now, for you who aren't sure what
1:43Safiel is or still have some doubts,
1:45take a look at our Safiel in Field
1:48playlist. I'm sure your question will
1:52be answered in the videos we published
1:55a while ago, okay? So, it's a very
1:59complete playlist here, there's a lot
2:01of information on the Safiel website,
2:03there's Safiel for members, anyway. In
2:07case you, uh, don't identify your
2:09answer there, then send us an email or
2:12send one to the Safiel team, and I'm
2:15sure we'll be able to answer it for you
2:17, okay? So, whoever wants to send a
2:21super chat, feel free. Whoever wants to
2:23send a question in the chat, feel free.
2:27But let's try to focus here on
2:29questions related to the current moment
2:32, because otherwise we take up too much
2:34time and we end up not, uh, taking
2:36advantage of Carlos and Saluci's
2:39presence for more current doubts we
2:41have, right? So let's go, folks. Let's
2:45put Carlos and Saluci on the screen.
2:49Everything good there, guys? Good
2:50evening.
2:52>> Cheers. Everything good? Good Carlos.
2:55To everyone, all the Corinthians fans
2:57watching us, good evening.
3:00>> Hey, Carlos, everything okay?
3:02>> Hey, Bon, good evening. A hug to you,
3:05to Saluci, and to everyone watching us,
3:07it's a pleasure to be here again. I
3:10missed it. Uh, let's go. Let's update
3:14everyone on the news we have, keep
3:17everyone in the loop, and let's go. We
3:20can't keep our heads down.
3:21>> Let's go, then. Man, I was just saying
3:23here, it's been practically three weeks
3:25since we last did a "Safiel" on the
3:27field. So, I hope, and I'm not here, uh
3:30, counting or setting the stage, no. We
3:35haven't spoken that often, so I really
3:37don't know everything that's evolved or
3:40happened; there are elections happening
3:42in parallel, so I think there's a lot
3:45for us to chat about here and update
3:47everyone on what's been going on, right
3:49? Uh, first of all, let's go. Uh, I
3:55need to start with this question. In
3:58any way, has Corinthians, as an
4:00institution, whether through Mr. Osmar
4:03or through any other director, has
4:05anyone contacted you during all this
4:08time? Has anything moved forward with
4:11the executive office at Parque São
4:13Jorge?
4:17>> No.
4:18>> No.
4:19>> The answer is no, right? Since the last
4:22update, when we sent Corinthians, uh,
4:25the answers to the questions, right?
4:30Then there was that challenge from STB
4:32saying that if we, from the arena,
4:36>> paid for the arena, he would sign the
4:38binding proposal. We also formalized on
4:40national television that we accepted
4:42the challenge. It was on a Friday. Then
4:46, on Monday, we tried to make contact
4:49via message, WhatsApp, phone call, and
4:51email; we also got no response. We
4:56filed a formal response stating that we
4:59accepted the challenge, provided the
5:01procedures and guarantees were observed
5:04, right, uh, according to what must be
5:07done, uh, and we made ourselves
5:10available. And, and we had no further
5:15response until, uh, we understood,
5:17right, that the Osmar administration,
5:20had ended at that moment, right, and
5:23that now the focus would be, uh,
5:26electoral, right? Not just the
5:29country's elections, but also
5:30Corinthians 'elections, right? Uh, and
5:33therefore we preferred to wait, right,
5:36for the electoral scenario to stabilize
5:39, uh, to return to the political
5:42negotiations, and in the meantime,
5:44doing our homework here and making a
5:47little progress.
5:50>> Perfect. And how are you seeing the
5:53current moment, right? Because there's
5:55one thing that Edu and Salucci have
5:57always brought up here, I think since
6:00the first time I interviewed you, which
6:02was the issue of concern regarding the
6:04club's financial side, right? And I've
6:07been receiving many questions about
6:09that. Uh, the club has deteriorated, I
6:12think in a way that, unfortunately, for
6:14those who followed what was being done,
6:17it was something expected, right? If
6:20there wasn't a turning point. Edu spoke
6:22a lot about this here, it was over 1
6:25million lost per day, right, Edu, that
6:28was being lost over at Corinthians.
6:31>> How are you seeing the current
6:32situation, right? And just jumping on
6:35that, Marília Ruiz made a post, I
6:37don't know if it was today or yesterday
6:40that I saw it, saying that tomorrow
6:42marks one year since the first proposal
6:45was made, right, by Safiel to
6:46Corinthians
6:48>> and nothing has been developed in that
6:51regard. How do you see this current
6:53moment for Corinthians and how much
6:55does this worry the Safiel project?
6:57Look, Bonô. Uh, well, I was going to
7:01recall that, in fact, tomorrow makes
7:04one year since we officially launched
7:06the project there at the Pacaembu
7:08Football Museum. It was a memorable
7:11moment for us here. Uh, there we
7:16already made a quite deep diagnosis of
7:19the situation. So, everything that is
7:24happening now, honestly, it doesn't
7:27surprise me, because this, uh, again,
7:31was already more than clear, right? Uh,
7:37it was, I even think we became too
7:40repetitive and and sometimes even
7:43>> alerting, alerting, you said
7:45>> Exactly. Alerting, diagnosing, beating
7:48on the same drum. And it's incredible,
7:51right? Because it seems that whoever
7:54points out the error is the one who in
7:57the end is wrong, right? So, uh, we
8:02would not like to be wrong, right? But,
8:08uh, for us it is not a surprise that
8:10the club deteriorated so fast. Whoever
8:13knows a little about financial math
8:16knows how, uh, compound interest works,
8:19right? Whoever follows the club's
8:22balance sheets knows that the club
8:24produces no surplus whatsoever, right?
8:29That the club can barely pay its
8:31ordinary expenses and the service of
8:34the debt. And what is incredible, um,
8:39what is incredible is that in more than
8:4212 months, right, that we have been
8:45talking about this, nothing has changed
8:48, right? Quite the contrary, the
8:50situation from a structural point of
8:52view, it remains the same, right? And
8:55even more incredible, surreal, I would
8:58say, is that the incumbents, right,
9:00that is, the people who are there at
9:03the head of the club, treat everything
9:06as normal, as if nothing were happening
9:08. So, Bono, uh, unfortunately
9:12Corinthians lives in a kind of parallel
9:16universe. Uh, and this and this mode
9:24where the environment where the
9:27structure doesn't self-correct, doesn't
9:30self-regulate, uh it really uh uh
9:36degrades quickly, right? it keeps
9:39degrading rapidly. And we, I think
9:41we're going to talk about that today. I
9:44think that the financial collapse has
9:47really arrived,
9:50>> right? The sporting one has arrived too
9:52. A lot of people asked us along the
9:55way, oh, why will Corinthians need to
9:56change? And the short answer was
9:59because Corinthians is facing an
10:01ultimatum, right, a financial ultimatum
10:03, a sporting ultimatum, and an
10:05institutional ultimatum. So that's what
10:09we're seeing, a collapse in finances, a
10:11sporting collapse, and an institutional
10:14collapse with the impending, uh,
10:16conclusion of the judicial intervention
10:18process. Uh, so Corinthians really
10:23needs a salvation. Someone needs to
10:26intercede for Corinthians fans, because
10:29not even the mobilization that Safiel
10:32managed to gather from the outside was
10:35enough to break this shield that seems
10:37to be installed there at Parque São
10:40Jorge, uh, where a small, uh, a small
10:43political structure, uh, not only
10:45controls...worse than that, right? it
10:49destroys Corinthians and not content
10:53with the destruction uh which would
10:59already be a horrible destruction. We
11:02they continue destroying uh the rubble
11:08of Corinthians, okay? So, excuse the
11:11vent here, but really to make an honest
11:14diagnosis, it's only with words of this
11:17type.
11:19>> We're we're talking about the financial
11:21part, right? And but there's one thing
11:24that look, if I have anything good,
11:26it's a good memory of the lives I do.
11:29And I remember that at a certain moment
11:32you said that it was practically
11:35impossible to restructure the club
11:37without an injection of external
11:40capital. And I remember that you were
11:43criticized at that moment, because
11:45whoever listened said that uh you were
11:48wanting to buy the club, right? As if
11:51Safiel were a project exclusive only to
11:53you two, that you would be owners,
11:55right? At that moment, the information
11:58about Safiel wasn't that mature yet.
12:01Anyway. And it's very funny that, and
12:04it's good that this is happening, but I
12:06have been following very closely, even
12:08because of the debate that will take
12:10place on Sunday, the positioning of the
12:12candidates, right? And in their vast
12:16majority, they already say that either
12:19they make money, right, whether through
12:21Safiel, whether through some external
12:23resource, anyway, each one defends one
12:25thing, but that if it's not this way,
12:27there's no way to save Corinthians. So,
12:32I mean, what you guys said back then,
12:34well, now, what for some was absurd,
12:36now another thing has been consolidated
12:39, has been validated, right? So, one
12:42more prediction that you guys made back
12:45then, that has even been used now as a
12:48tool, an instrument for candidates'
12:51campaigns, right? We'll get into the
12:54candidates 'issue. Go ahead, Edu.
12:57>> No, I was going to comment, Bon, I even
12:59sent it to you on WhatsApp.
13:01>> Hmm. There was a clip of something I
13:05said at the launch at the Soccer Museum
13:07,
13:09>> where I state quite clearly the
13:13following: there is no financier we
13:18consulted who confirmed that this debt
13:23is payable.
13:25>> Hmm. That the debt grows by 1 million a
13:28day, that from day X until the moment
13:30of that presentation, it had grown by
13:33millions of reais. And that the day
13:38would come when the RCE wouldn't be
13:40paid, that accounts would be blocked,
13:42that players would be paid late, and I
13:44even ended by saying, the day will come
13:47when they'll cut the electricity, right
13:49? I even said that, and that statement
13:53was criticized. If you look at the
13:56comments, actually, on this video at
13:59the time—I have it open here, right?
14:01"Oh, how can the club have a revenue of
14:03a billion?""How will it not pay?""Oh,
14:05there's the scam, whoever wants to fall
14:07for it, does," right? And things of
14:10that nature. Uh, and anyway,
14:16>> I think there's a point there, Edu,
14:18look, if you'll allow me, I won't play
14:20the video here—I saw what you sent—
14:22because it doesn't work very well to
14:24show videos from other channels; they
14:26take it down in a heartbeat, okay? So,
14:30I apologize for not playing it, but I
14:32can share it with people later so they
14:34can see it. I saw it here while you
14:38were talking, and I remember your
14:41statement there very well, and indeed,
14:43many people said that you were trying
14:46to create a situation that wasn't
14:49reality, right? And deep down, that is
14:53exactly what is happening. And I'll add
14:56more, Edu, we didn't foresee that
14:58Corinthians would advance so many
14:59resources. That's what gave it enough
15:03oxygen to get this far. Am I right?
15:07>> Without a doubt. Without a doubt. There
15:09was a commitment, right, of assets, a
15:12commitment of revenue, a commitment of
15:15cash flow by anticipating receivables,
15:19even in an irresponsible way, right, to
15:22keep things dragging along, right. And
15:27we spent this past year hearing things
15:29like: "three terms will fix it,""in 5
15:31years we'll be a financial powerhouse,"
15:34or "by the end of this year, the debt
15:36will start to be paid," right? That was
15:39the most recent one, right? No, by the
15:41second half of 2026 the debt starts to
15:43be paid, you can be sure, rest easy,
15:44everything is under control, right?
15:48This is, this is scary, right? Because
15:52it's an institutional narrative that
15:54reveals a a phenomenon, right? Even my
16:00next article over at Poder 360 deals
16:02with this, talking about lies in
16:03politics, right? I refer to an episode
16:09from the Vietnam War, which was the
16:12Pentagon Papers, right, where US
16:15defense documents were leaked, and they
16:18identified that the leaked documents
16:22reflected a different truth than the
16:25one the government, or whoever was in
16:28power, portrayed to the population, to
16:32society, like: "Oh, they...They made a
16:37cowardly attack against us" and so on.
16:40In reality, that wasn't it. They were
16:43reacting to a clandestine invasion by
16:45the Americans, or something like that,
16:47right?
16:47>> Uh-huh.
16:48>> And this episode at the time generated
16:50many studies, and there is one of them
16:52that Carlos already knows, since I
16:54often cite Hannah Arendt, right, Carlos
16:56? We joke that she's my favorite writer
16:59. She faces this, she analyzes this
17:02episode and points out the danger of it
17:05, right, of the lies that are told to
17:08the outside world, right? And the worst
17:12part of this is when people believe the
17:15lie, which is different from reality,
17:17and decisions start to be made, they
17:19start being made based on an unreal
17:21narrative, right, which is the most
17:24dangerous thing of all. I mean, it's
17:27not just the lie, it's the lie that is
17:29presented as the truth while knowing it
17:31doesn't correspond to the truth. So far
17:34that is a lie, but strategic business
17:37decisions start to be taken based on a
17:39situation
17:41>> and then you end up on an absurd path,
17:45right? And it's very scary, right, the
17:49belief that people have in this
17:51situation, right? I am referring to the
17:54members, the voters, the Corinthians
17:56fans who still have doubts about what
17:57is happening. It is really very
18:00concerning.
18:01>> And just to wrap up this line of
18:02reasoning here, I think it's important,
18:05>> why was it so predictable that we would
18:08reach this point? Well, because since
18:14the only remedy, right, is to take
18:17palliative measures, well, what are
18:20these palliative measures, right?
18:25Anticipating revenues, right?
18:27Anticipating revenues, taking out new
18:29loans, right? What happens? You end up
18:33compromising more and more of your
18:34future; you are selling your future to
18:36stay alive in the present, without a
18:40restructuring strategy. That is why we
18:43have always said that a capital
18:45injection and governance were the two
18:47elements that would truly free
18:49Corinthians from this trap, right? So,
18:53while the club followed and still
18:56follows, okay, Bonô, anticipating
18:59revenues, you see that the loans and
19:03the advances occur with increasingly
19:06>> higher interest rates,
19:08>> increasingly, I was going to say,
19:09increasingly extortionate, okay?
19:11>> Yes. We had a candidate there who knows
19:14Corinthians well, because after all,
19:16he's a board member and is on the
19:18inside, who recently said that
19:20Corinthians is taking out loans at CDI
19:22plus 18 percent. I think not even a
19:26loan shark who lends money to, well, to
19:29a consumer, a drug user, lends at such
19:32a high interest rate, right? So, what
19:37we, what is happening under everyone's
19:42eyes, Bonô, and I say this with a
19:45heavy heart, is an almost total
19:49destruction of an institution, right?
19:53Does that mean it's not recoverable? Of
19:57course it's recoverable, but it will
20:00have to go through a transformation
20:02shock, a reality check, so that,
20:05finally, the decisions and structures
20:08are compatible with an organization
20:11that has this level of complexity that
20:14Corinthians has. And this issue, right,
20:19of this shock, of this period, the
20:22deeper the hole gets, the longer it
20:25takes to solve the financial problem.
20:29That is mathematical, right? It's no
20:32use thinking you'll just flip a switch,
20:35inject a billion, and everything will
20:37be solved. How do you guys see this?
20:42But looking at the SAF, right? Let's
20:45assume that at some point the SAF
20:47happens early next year. The scenario
20:52is already very different from a year
20:54ago when the project began, right? So,
20:58if you were projecting an injection of,
21:01say, X million, those X million aren't
21:03enough anymore today. Because as we
21:07know well, Corinthians doesn't need 2.5
21:09billion all at once. There are debts
21:13you can renegotiate, debts you'll pay
21:15in the medium and long term, but the
21:18short term has changed a lot, right? So
21:23we're looking at, at the beginning of
21:25the year we were talking here about a
21:28Safiel project and discussing one or
21:30two transfer bans. Look how many months
21:35we’ve been under a transfer ban now,
21:37folks. We can't manage. It seems like
21:39it’s become normal. We managed to
21:41normalize a situation where we are
21:43unable to sign players. So, it's not
21:47just the transfer ban anymore; there
21:50are several transfer bans, there's the
21:52Neo Química Arena, there are the
21:54advances, and I know that Corinthians
21:56is running, running in a way without
21:58even being able to catch its breath, to
22:01close with a new ticketing company to
22:03pay player salaries through the end of
22:05the year, because there's no money to
22:08bring salaries up to date and pay them
22:10until the end of the year. So, how do
22:14you project next year? For Safiel. I
22:18mean, I'm talking about the best-case
22:19scenario, right? A new president won
22:23the election, called you guys to talk,
22:26and gave the go-ahead. How do you see
22:30those first steps, financially speaking
22:32?
22:35>> I, just to start here, I think it's
22:37important, Bonô, that we take a step
22:39back before getting into that question,
22:41right? Uh, so I will
22:44>> it's just a hypothetical situation,
22:46okay, Carlos? I just wanted to put it
22:48out there for people to have an idea,
22:50right, of how you are thinking about an
22:51implementation.
22:53>> Exactly. I'll provide a preamble here,
22:54then. I'll take a step back so we can
22:56contextualize things a bit better, and
22:59Salu will take it from that point on
23:01regarding your question, okay?
23:03>> That
23:04>> sounds good. Bonô, what did we realize
23:06, right? Already taking a little step
23:09back here to better answer your
23:10question and clarify it for everyone
23:12watching us. We realized that the work
23:17done so far by Safiel has hit a ceiling
23:20from an efficiency standpoint, right?
23:24What do I mean by that? There is a
23:27limit to what we can do coming from the
23:30outside, right? Safiel came from the
23:33outside; it was envisioned by fans who
23:36later became partners, right? But it
23:39wasn't born inside the club; it was
23:40born outside. And this journey coming
23:43from the outside was very important,
23:45even because, let's face it, we who
23:48know the club better now, I mean us,
23:50all of us here in this live stream,
23:52right?
23:53>> Uh-huh. We know that from the inside,
23:57uh, it would be a rare phenomenon for
24:02any transformation initiative to happen
24:04, because it would be killed by the
24:06club's own political system, right? So
24:10that's it, the Safiel came from the
24:12outside, it was born outside, it
24:14started gaining support from the
24:15outside, it started gaining trust from
24:17the outside, it started gaining respect
24:19, it was
24:21>> finding space, it was being tested from
24:24the outside, slowly, it was being
24:25understood. I still don't say that it
24:28is fully understood, okay? I say this
24:30with complete calm, and we can explore
24:33a bit more of the potential behind the
24:36Safiel for Corinthians, right? It is
24:39not fully understandable, understood
24:41yet, okay?
24:44>> But from the outside, Bonô, we hit a
24:46limit because the fans who want this
24:51fiel, they don't vote in the club,
24:54right? And, for a long time, there was
24:57a discussion if the organized supporter
24:59groups were going to, uh, put on
25:01pressure, because they said that at
25:03Corinthians everything works based on
25:05pressure. And it was proven A plus B to
25:09everyone, uh, that this wouldn't
25:12materialize through organized
25:14supporters either, even though we had
25:16non-structural movements, but sporadic
25:19movements there from the organized
25:22supporters, uh, let's put it this way,
25:28uh, often demanding from the club,
25:29right, about, about the follow-up of
25:31the proposal. So, like this, from the
25:35outside, we hit a kind of a ceiling,
25:37okay? Uh, the project, Bonô, uh, sorry
25:41for the long answer, but I think it's
25:44super important here even for Edu to be
25:46able to complement. The project has
25:50five main vectors, okay? The first is
25:55the governance model and the corporate
25:57model, where the Corintiano becomes a
25:59partner of Corinthians football,
26:01separated from the association along
26:03with the associative club, right,
26:05within that governance model that we
26:07have already talked about and is here
26:09in your playlist of lives, and the fan
26:11can, uh, check it out, those fans who
26:13don't know it. This is one of the five
26:19vectors of the project, but it is the
26:22vector that basically dominated 90-95%
26:25of our interviews or our, uh,
26:27conversations with members, with fans,
26:30etc., etc., etc. Okay? Uh, the project,
26:35as I said, has five vectors. So,
26:38besides this vector of, uh, corporate
26:41and governance model, the other four
26:44vectors are, first, a sports project
26:46for Corinthians football, right? Second
26:51, a business plan, right? And the
26:54business plan here too, we can talk
26:56about it later. Going back,
26:58>> I think I have a slide about this. I
27:00was looking here. I think,
27:02>> let, let me see if it's the same one.
27:03If it is, let me put it here just so I
27:05can It's this one.
27:07>> Yes, exactly. So, we have the corporate
27:10and governance model there in the
27:13center, okay? We have here, starting on
27:17the top right, we have a sports project
27:19that is part of this whole modeling,
27:22right? We have a business plan, right,
27:27that involves brands, it involves that
27:31acronym there, NRPC. Uh, we are, uh,
27:37taking our business plan to the name of
27:40the New Popular Republic of Corinthians
27:43, okay? You'll tell us what that is
27:46later. So,
27:47>> exactly, to give a disclaimer here, a
27:51quick heads-up, uh, in our view and
27:55we've said this here in a few lives,
27:58okay? We said that today a football
28:01club is not just a football club, it's
28:02a media company, an entertainment
28:04company,
28:05>> but we are going a little further, okay
28:07? In Safiel's view here, uh, we need to
28:11transform Corinthians, which is a
28:14football club today, right? into a
28:18global community of Corinthians fans, a
28:21global sports community of Corinthians
28:24fans, okay?
28:26>> The world of Corinthians, is that it?
28:27Yes, the New Popular Republic of
28:30Corinthians. We are talking about
28:32founding a country of Corinthians with
28:35a new constitution.
28:36>> I already liked it. I already liked it.
28:38I'm talking about a campaign that was
28:40just a marketing campaign in that sense
28:42and that worked very well.
28:44>> This is not a campaign, this is a
28:46structure.
28:46>> I understood, I understood. I'm just
28:48commenting that the name, right,
28:50brought back something that was already
28:52very good in the past.
28:54>> Yes, yes. Exactly. So, what is the
28:57meaning of this, Bonô? What is the
29:00meaning of this, right? I will ask the
29:02fans to pay attention, right? Looking
29:07at the thesis of what Corinthians is,
29:10right? Corinthians stops being
29:14perceived, right, as a football team
29:18that has a fanbase, right, to be
29:21perceived as a global community of fans
29:25. It seems subtle, but this changes a
29:28lot of things.
29:29>> A big difference. I agree.
29:31>> A lot, okay? So, this is the second
29:34vector—no, the third vector of the
29:36project, the business plan, okay? It
29:40leads us, Bonô, it connects us there
29:42to the fourth vector, which is the
29:44investors one. And in the middle of the
29:48way there's a little box saying 3x 5Y,
29:51right? What does that mean? It means
29:55that this business vision, this new
29:57business vision, has the capacity to
29:59triple recurring revenues. I'm not
30:02talking about selling players, okay?
30:03>> Uh-huh.
30:04>> It has the capacity to triple the
30:06football's recurring revenues. Okay?
30:09Within a 5-year period. We're talking
30:11about something here with a gigantic
30:13economic potential, right? So, we move
30:17from the business plan with this growth
30:21potential, right? That's what makes the
30:25investors viable, right? The entry of
30:29investors, both institutional investors
30:31and Corinthians fans who will invest
30:34and become shareholders, right? They
30:38will participate in the stock market of
30:40the New Popular Republic of Corinthians
30:43, okay? And this universe here
30:47generates a fundraising that, in our
30:49vision, is projected at 2.5 B. I must
30:53remind you that back then, a year ago,
30:56it was 1.6, okay? So our number has
30:59already grown quite a bit because we
31:01realized the debt would be higher,
31:02right? And the fifth vector, finally,
31:07Bonô, passing through Edu here, is the
31:10financial restructuring vector, right?
31:14Where we need to apply these 2.5 B,
31:18which won't come in a single tranche.
31:22We imagine three tranches, okay? The
31:25first is to do what is technically
31:27called Deep Finance, which is this
31:29initial aid to the Club's cash flow,
31:32>> very short term,
31:34>> short term,
31:34>> okay? Very short term. Then, another
31:38tranche of institutional investment,
31:41alright? And finally, the popular
31:45fundraising, which is that process of
31:48distributing shares to Corinthians fans
31:50, all right? So, this capital flow will
31:54allow us to carry out the financial
31:57restructuring, which will likely happen
32:00through a court-supervised
32:01reorganization or similar, okay? And at
32:06that moment we already break—we will
32:08split Corinthians' budget into two
32:10different tax IDs and two different
32:12budgets. One that goes up to Parque
32:15São Jorge, which is what's in gray,
32:18right?
32:19>> Through another budget. And that's why
32:21it says "association projections" here,
32:23because this is another financial
32:24budget for the association, alright?
32:27And another budget that goes to the SAF
32:29and fuels the sports project, right?
32:32Which is a new company born from
32:34scratch, which will have its own
32:36employees, directors, and executives
32:38separate from the social club, okay?
32:41And one that will deliver both this
32:43sports project and this business plan.
32:47In other words, there are five vectors
32:49much larger and broader than what we've
32:51been talking about in interviews, where
32:53we focus on this central vector here.
32:57But importantly, none of these points
32:59stand on their own if they're isolated;
33:02they form an integrated whole, okay? So
33:07, there is no isolated solution here.
33:10Oh, I'll just pull the financial
33:12restructuring or just pull in an
33:14investor. No, everything needs to move
33:17together and be part of a harmonic
33:19system, all right? So, passing it over
33:22to Edu now, what did we notice, Bonô?
33:25That the finishing touches on the
33:27project now need to be done from within
33:29. The project starts outside and is
33:31finished from the inside. So, we are
33:33discussing with the campaigns, right?
33:36We'll talk about that, about how to
33:38finish this from inside the club now so
33:40that when one of the candidates is
33:42elected, this project won't be a
33:44project that came from outside and was
33:46imposed, but one that was also
33:48developed by the hands of the
33:50candidates, okay? So I'll stop here and
33:54let Edu talk a little about this
33:56initial part, about this point
33:58regarding financial restructuring,
34:00which is the short-term relief and the
34:02medium and long-term aid.
34:04>> Edu, just before I hand it over to you,
34:07allow me, pardon, just to clarify first
34:09if I understood correctly, and if so,
34:12so that everyone stays on the same page
34:14. Am I wrong to say that during this
34:18period where we didn't have Safiel in
34:21the field—at least I didn't see you
34:24much in other media—you worked on
34:27what I'm not sure was missing, or did
34:30you simply put the project's flow
34:33organization down on paper, right?
34:37Because here I see that it is a
34:38structuring of the project. I hadn't
34:40seen a document like this before. So,
34:45for example, the sports project, of
34:47course, if you dive deep, there will be
34:49other information there, but as you
34:51said, these are pillars that give
34:53consistency to what the Safiel project
34:55is for the club. So that's more or less
35:00it, beyond other things that I'm sure
35:02you discussed with the candidate and
35:04we'll talk about in a bit, but you used
35:06this time to dive into these fronts
35:09here to put what you had in mind on
35:11paper. Is that right?
35:14>> Uh, Bon, actually, we never stopped,
35:17okay? So, this thing Carlos is showing
35:20is a slide that summarizes on one page
35:23dozens of other documents with dozens
35:29or hundreds of pages, okay? We have all
35:32this material.
35:33>> So, just so you have an idea of what
35:35we're talking about, right? In this
35:37central circle, corporate model,
35:39governance, statutes, right? Many
35:43criticisms came up back then during the
35:45scrutiny. "Oh, but they didn't make the
35:47statute, there's no shareholders '
35:49agreement." We were going to do that
35:51together with Corinthians when we sat
35:52down to settle, but we've already done
35:54it,
35:54>> okay? Hmm.
35:56>> So, we already have the Fiel SAF
35:58Statute drafted, we have the Invasão [
36:01Fiel] Statute drafted, we have the FIA
36:03fundraising regulation drafted, we have
36:06a draft proposal for the Fiel SAF
36:08shareholders' agreement made, an
36:11Invasão Fiel shareholders 'agreement
36:13made, and a quota holders' agreement
36:16for the FIA also drafted. So, the whole
36:20game is set. That was a lot of work and
36:22we continue to do it, right? We
36:25consolidated and updated the project in
36:28light of the SAF law as it was amended,
36:30right? These financial projections,
36:34when Carlos puts them here, right?
36:37Financial restructuring, fundraising,
36:38debt bridging, institutional
36:40fundraising, popular fundraising. This
36:44here, this little box that shows
36:46fundraising from debt finance, budget
36:48finance, this is from 15 meetings ago,
36:51right Carlos, with people, with funds,
36:53with institutions, with investors,
36:55right?
36:57>> Discussion of possible models like
36:59>> with companies that want to enter the
37:01model,
37:02>> with companies, and we've been at it,
37:03so we haven't stopped, okay? And why
37:05haven't we stopped, Bono? Because I saw
37:09here in the comments, someone wrote: "
37:10No, the Fiel SAF will never enter,
37:12right?" That is not our reading. Our
37:15reading is not "never." Our reading is
37:17"when," right? And this "when" will not
37:21depend on the people who are there
37:24willingly, right? Because I'm going to
37:29read an excerpt here from a document,
37:31and later you'll say who we are talking
37:33about here. It says, right, the text,
37:38that preserving the narrative becomes
37:40much more important than achieving the
37:43goal. And that is the most striking
37:47aspect, revealed by what's here. I'll
37:49read it later. At certain moments, the
37:53issue stops being simply how to win the
37:55war. and begins to intensely involve
37:59questions like how to avoid appearing
38:01defeated.
38:02>> Uh-huh.
38:03>> Or how to preserve one's credibility
38:05and image. In other words, there is a
38:10moment when acknowledging that the
38:12model needs to change becomes a greater
38:14threat to its leaders than the
38:19continuation of the crisis itself. If
38:23that happens, a conflict arises between
38:25the interest of the institution and the
38:27interest of the structure that governs
38:29the institution. This hypothesis is
38:32particularly fertile for analyzing
38:34resistance to deep reforms. Who am I
38:36talking about here?
38:39>> I don't know.
38:40>> Seems like it's Corinthians, doesn't it
38:41?
38:41>> Oh, yes. As an institution, it's
38:43strictly Corinthians.
38:45>> This here is Hannah Arendt's analysis
38:47of the Pentagon Papers episode, etc.
38:50>> So, we learn from history because, deep
38:52down, it repeats itself,
38:54>> it repeats itself in the episodes that
38:56happen in society's life, right? And
38:59that's why everything that's happening
39:01for us here is no surprise, right? Ah,
39:04uh,
39:05>> but Edu, even in this case, forgive me,
39:07could what we call Rutger Bregman's "
39:10Humankind" apply, do you agree?
39:13>> So, that's another, that's another book
39:14, which is this one, right? The
39:16optimistic story of man, who deep down
39:18ends up, when seeing what's there,
39:20uniting to be able to—but we're
39:21seeing that won't happen, right? And
39:25that won't happen for a very clear
39:27reason. The people in power, they
39:31position themselves as the solvers of
39:35problems.
39:36>> Uh-huh.
39:36>> Right? Rest easy, because I will solve
39:39the problem that I myself created,
39:41right? And it makes the people who put
39:46them in power end up drifting away from
39:50reality, right? And it's a very
39:54interesting phenomenon, because the
39:57personal public relations of those
40:00leaders or candidates who are more
40:03popular, let's say, they replace the
40:06objective assessment of reality and the
40:09concrete risks of reality. In other
40:14words, the decision starts to be made
40:16based on empathy, sympathy, the
40:18barbecue, the party, and so on, and
40:20people drift away from what really
40:22matters, which is that self-deception.
40:25People deceive themselves, right? Uh,
40:29and what, and what the, the, the Parque
40:30São Jorge member has to understand,
40:32and they will understand it the easy
40:34way or the hard way, sooner or later,
40:36uh, or will they learn the worst way
40:37possible? You know that story about a
40:40mother or father who tells their child:
40:42"Let them hit a wall."
40:43>> Uh-huh.
40:43>> Because that's how you learn?
40:45>> Are you going to learn?
40:46>> Uh, oh, you want to do it? Do it. No,
40:48son, that doesn't work. No, Dad. But
40:49I'm going to. Oh, really? So you go,
40:51you go alone, you'll see, they're going
40:52to hit a wall, man. Dad. I told you,
40:54see? See that? I told you, but the best
40:57way to deal with this is to let people
41:00hit a wall, right? And that's what we
41:02are, uh, seeing, right? Because we
41:05Corinthians fans are hitting a wall,
41:07right? Uh, we Corinthians supporters,
41:10we Corinthians members, we Corinthians
41:12fans who want what's best for the
41:14institution, we are paying the price
41:16for something that was warned a year
41:18ago and is now being reiterated and
41:20will only get worse, right? Uh, and
41:23it’s not something that can be solved
41:26based on "trust me," right? Not based
41:29on "trust me," it's not "trust me," you
41:31need external capital. This structure
41:33that Carlos put here is like a table.
41:35You see that within the model there are
41:37four strands, right? It's like a table
41:39that has four legs, right? If you take
41:41away one leg, the table will be wobbly,
41:43it will fall, right? Uh, so this
41:47structure, there's no way to have a
41:49wonderful sports project, uh, a
41:52wonderful business plan, a
41:54restructuring project. You don't have
41:57new capital. Capital won't sprout, it
42:00won't grow on trees. It, uh, and what's
42:04more, I think it's not just capital
42:06here, it's a truly professional
42:07structure, because to transform
42:09Corinthians from a football club into a
42:11global sports community, right? With,
42:15uh, uh, with, uh, all the
42:16sophistication of this business plan
42:19here, you need to have top-tier
42:21professionals, specialists at the head
42:24of critical areas, right? We are
42:26talking about media, we are talking
42:28about a Corinthians marketplace here,
42:31we are talking about a sports project
42:33that belongs to the club, not the coach
42:35anymore, like it is today, right? A 10,
42:3820-year project for Corinthians. Uh,
42:42anyway, you can't do that inside an
42:44institution that is essentially
42:46political. You need to do this within a
42:48professional institution.
42:50>> Professional.
42:51>> And so, uh, I think, touching on the
42:53issue of the member, right, and, I
42:55think this electoral moment is
42:57extremely important, right? The, the
43:01member, their role has never been so
43:03important, and I know there's a debate
43:05with Bono on the first, right? Uh-huh.
43:08>> It has never been more important to ask
43:12deep questions of the candidates
43:14regarding all these issues and not
43:17accept evasive answers, half-answers,
43:20or answers that are, sorry, 95%, you
43:24know? The answers need to be 100%,
43:27right? Uh, I think the moment demands
43:31this responsibility from everyone, and
43:34no one, no one has the right, uh, uh,
43:37to, to let's put it this way, to, uh,
43:42not address a problem so serious and
43:44that affects so many people, right?
43:47>> And that impacts so many people,
43:48exactly,
43:49>> right, in a shallow way, right? So, uh,
43:52in that sense, I think I wanted to make
43:54a call here to the members and, and for
43:56those, the members who are watching us,
43:58talk to other members as well. Uh,
44:02understand well what each candidate is
44:04going to do, right? Who is actually
44:07committed to change, or who has already
44:10made it clear they won't change, or who
44:12hasn't made it clear if they will
44:15change or won't change, right? Uh, I
44:18think we need firmness, we need clarity
44:21here. Uh, otherwise we will continue.
44:25We were talking here before the start
44:27of the live stream, right? Uh, a
44:29portrait of our plight, the Corinthian
44:31plight today. It's that even the
44:34Palmeiras fans aren't making fun of us
44:36anymore, right? So, uh, and it's no use
44:39saying, uh, that, uh, you know, based
44:42on bravado that Corinthians is this,
44:45that it is that. We know it is, but it
44:48needs to be cared for as such, right?
44:51It's no use saying it is and treating
44:53it like a Sunday league club. Uh, so
44:57this is the moment, the moment for us
45:00to understand how these vectors are
45:02solved, uh, according to each
45:04candidate's plan.
45:07>> Uh-huh.
45:08>> Sorry, sorry.
45:09>> No worries, Edu, just before you add
45:11anything, uh, man, I'm going to want to
45:14dive a little deeper into the new
45:15Popular Republic of Corinthians, and
45:17understand a little more about what's
45:19there. But, Edu, look, still on what
45:22you were saying, right? Uh, up there we
45:25see the rejection that Corinthians is
45:31in the final stages of getting approval
45:34from the COR to proceed with judicial
45:36recovery, right? Well, I'll be very
45:40honest, this worries me a lot, because
45:43just as it was done with the RCE, it's
45:46no use having a restructuring if you
45:49don't have an economic plan to maintain
45:52the payments for that restructuring. I
45:55don't know how much you're up to speed
45:57on this conversation, right? Anyway, we
46:00find out things happening in there sort
46:03of indirectly, but how worrying is this
46:05, Edu? Well, I think that the judicial
46:11recovery, we've always said that, the
46:14judicial or extrajudicial recovery on
46:17its own doesn't do the job. Why?
46:22Because it's no use for me to file for
46:24judicial recovery and then, the next
46:25day, what is my plan? What is going to
46:28happen? If I don't change things the
46:30way they are, I won't get different
46:32results. It's that, it's that, that
46:35phrase, right, that says that,
46:38>> if you want to continue, if you keep
46:40doing the same things, you can't expect
46:43different results, right? You have to
46:46have a break, you have to have new
46:47models, you have to have a new plan,
46:49right? And the people at Parque São
46:52Jorge, with all due respect, right?
46:56They expect things to change while
46:58doing the same things with the same
47:00people. It won't change. Write it down,
47:03in a year from now this will be another
47:05video we'll have to revisit, right?
47:07Because I'm not the one saying this.
47:09This is a phrase attributed to Albert
47:11Einstein or whoever said it, right?
47:14Things have to change. And a judicial
47:19recovery says the following: "Look, I
47:20got myself in trouble here because what
47:22did I do? My choices weren't right and
47:26led me to bad results. I need to change
47:30, right? Because if I do the same thing
47:33that brought me here, I'm going to
47:36crash later on. So I need to change. I
47:38have this plan. And what is this plan,
47:41right? We need to know what this plan
47:43is. Entering a judicial recovery
47:46without having a plan to exit it, right
47:49? It's practically asking for
47:52permission to go bankrupt, okay? Uh-huh
47:55.
47:55>> And that's very complicated. We have
48:00some setbacks there, right, within the
48:03judicial recovery, right? Uh, we don't
48:08...I don't know, obviously, what the,
48:10in detail, right, the value of the
48:13anticipated receivables are. But the
48:16Judicial Recovery and Bankruptcy Law is
48:19very clear in stating that fiduciary
48:21credit assignment—that is, when I
48:23take an advance, I transfer the right
48:25to receive a future amount to the bank,
48:28to the one who lent to me—is outside
48:30of the judicial recovery, right? Uh, uh
48:35, and this, and this revenue, therefore
48:38, uh, no longer belongs to me, right?
48:42And we know there is a significant
48:44anticipation amount, which I don't know
48:46what it is. We know that the arena's
48:49own debt is also tied to a contract
48:51that involves, among another line of
48:53guarantees, the fiduciary assignment of
48:55shares as well, right? Uh, so you have
48:59challenges there that are very
49:00dangerous, right? Uh, and you have two
49:03recoveries, which is the judicial one,
49:05where you go in and ask the judge, uh,
49:07first, right, uh, you file, request
49:09judicial recovery, explain the reasons,
49:11and so on. The judge grants it,
49:13suspends everything for six months,
49:15right, can extend it for another six
49:17months, uh, all executions, lawsuits
49:19are suspended. Then you will indicate
49:22who your creditors are, present a plan,
49:24put it to a vote, and then execute the
49:26plan, right, in very rough terms. Yeah,
49:28yeah, it's like that. And the
49:30extrajudicial recovery, which is the
49:31one you do without the judge beforehand
49:33, right? You negotiate individually
49:35with each creditor, right? Uh, get the
49:38majority there, the negotiations, put
49:40it on paper, and go to the judge to
49:42ratify a negotiation already made
49:43before, right? These are two, uh, two
49:47possibilities that are fundamental, yes
49:49, they are fundamental, they are
49:51important and are valid instruments,
49:54but they are not sufficient instruments
49:56in isolation, right? We've seen it
49:59there: don't file for judicial recovery
50:00, everything is fine, everything is
50:01fine, everything is fine, comma, right?
50:04Because I file for judicial recovery
50:06and I continue generating this cash
50:08deficit, this mismanagement, damaging
50:10contracts, right? Uh, bloated staff and
50:13, uh, ticket diversion, as was
50:15mentioned in a Bono live stream,
50:18>> right? Uh, and things of that sort, I'm
50:21going to dig, I'm going to continue
50:22digging the hole I ended up burying
50:24myself in, right? So you have that
50:28danger, especially because a judicial
50:29recovery with an approved plan that
50:31isn't fulfilled means bankruptcy.
50:34>> Exactly. I was going to ask that, Edu.
50:37Didn't pay, it goes to bankruptcy. And
50:40filing for bankruptcy isn't just, it's
50:42not just like, oh, let's just
50:44renegotiate. Once it’s bankrupt,
50:46it’s bankrupt, you close the doors.
50:48Exactly.
50:49>> What I think will, what I think will
50:51happen in the meantime, right, is that
50:54some clever guy might very well buy the
50:57credit from the creditors that
50:59Corinthians owes, and he could pull off
51:02a hostile takeover of Corinthians. This
51:05is very common, okay?
51:07>> Uh-huh.
51:07>> This is very common. So,
51:09>> then it really could turn into a
51:11building, right, Carlos, as was said.
51:12>> It could turn into a building,
51:14Corinthians could pass into someone's
51:16ownership, right? It could become a
51:20private SAF, owned by someone who
51:22bought the club in a hostile way,
51:25without even needing to negotiate with
51:28the club. He goes, for example, to the
51:31business owners who are the ones owed
51:33the most by Corinthians and says," Look
51:35, Corinthians isn't going to pay you
51:37anyway, they're in judicial recovery,
51:39why don't you sell your rights to me? "
51:41>> Uh-huh. And then he buys it at, I don't
51:44know, a 50, 60, 70%discount
51:47>> and he ends up, at the end of the day,
51:49being the owner of the club, right?
51:51Because he has the power to file for
51:52bankruptcy.
51:53>> Uh-huh.
51:54>> So, it's sad that we're in this
51:57situation, but it's the reality. And
52:00it's better that we face reality, stop
52:03lying, because then we can actually
52:05start to change for real.
52:07>> Perfect. Then
52:08>> people say, right, Bonô?" Oh,
52:10Corinthians won't go broke. "Uh-huh.
52:12>> Right? I was looking here before the
52:15live stream out of curiosity, Napoli in
52:17Italy, where Maradona played, went
52:19bankrupt.
52:20>> Uh-huh.
52:20>> 2004.
52:22>> Rangers in Scotland had 9 million fans,
52:24I think it was a third of the
52:26population. They went bankrupt, right?
52:28Fiorentina in Italy was declared
52:33insolvent. They restarted as a new club
52:35years later, right? And in Brazil, you
52:39also had a series of examples here,
52:42right? Grêmio Barueri, Mogi Mirim,
52:45Oeste, Atlético Sorocaba, and so on.
52:49So, yes, clubs do go bankrupt. Clubs do
52:51go bankrupt." Oh, but Corinthians is
52:53too big. "It is very big, but
52:55>> the bigger you are, the harder you fall
52:58, right? And proportionally, these
53:00clubs went bankrupt with debts much
53:02smaller than Corinthians ', because
53:04their size was smaller.
53:06>> Now, three billion in debt is a debt
53:08that exceeds that of all other major
53:10competitors in São Paulo combined,
53:13right? It's something very, very, very
53:17imposing, very powerful. So, there
53:20really is that risk. We we we can't
53:22afford the luxury of of going down that
53:24path, right? Uh,
53:26>> more than that, right? If you, if you
53:28allow me, besides the financial issue,
53:30there is the sporting issue.
53:32>> Of course, we
53:33>> have been at this for over 10 years now
53:34, right? A good part of the Brazilian
53:37championships we've been playing, we've
53:38been playing just to avoid relegation,
53:40right? Uh, so, I mean, we need, first
53:45and foremost, a strong club, a strong
53:47Corinthians, a competitive Corinthians
53:50to be Corinthians for real, right? Uh,
53:55so
53:56>> and perennial, right, Carlos? It’s no
53:58use building a team for one year and
54:00then
54:00>> which is what happened back in 2015,
54:02right? Uh, so look, there is a sporting
54:06challenge here as well that needs to be
54:09met, right?
54:10>> Uh-huh.
54:11>> Uh, and the sporting side today,
54:14>> uh, there’s no point in us wanting to
54:16do what what Flamengo did back then,
54:17right? Because back then, man, a good
54:21squad wasn’t as expensive as it is
54:24today.
54:25>> It didn’t cost what it costs today.
54:27>> And broadcasting rights and sporting
54:29prize money didn’t make as much of a
54:31difference in the budget as they do
54:33today, right? So, uh,
54:37>> and the debt amount wasn't as heavy in
54:39relation to what you have in revenue.
54:43Exactly. So look, uh, we might not go
54:46bankrupt, right? We might keep dragging
54:50along, but what about our sporting
54:51relevance, where is it where is it
54:52going to end up? Actually, it has
54:54already stopped, right? It has already
54:56stopped. So that needs to be analyzed
54:59too, rather than just sitting here
55:01admiring our past achievements, right?
55:05Man, that’s great for a museum,
55:07it’s great for specific moments,
55:09where you go
55:10>> uh, hey, it’s here, this is the day
55:12we’re going to glorify our past,
55:14alright? But daily life isn't made of
55:17the past, daily life is made of the
55:18present.
55:19>> The most important game is tomorrow’s
55:20game, it’s the championship you’re
55:22competing in today. So, those who live
55:24in the past belong in a museum, right?
55:26Uh, we live in the present here at
55:28Corinthians too. We need to handle the
55:30present.
55:31>> Now, look, before we move on, let me
55:33just make a request to everyone here. I
55:35didn't want to cut you off, it's
55:37already better in the chat, but guys
55:39who are worried about federal politics,
55:40people, it's over, the elections are
55:42already done. So, look at the
55:45opportunity we have here to be able to
55:48listen to Carlos, to Saluce, as they
55:50bring updates on the project. Look at
55:53how much was explained here about how
55:56much has evolved in terms of structure,
55:59of, well, uh, and the presentation,
56:01right, of what is being done. So, let's
56:03go, let's focus on Corinthians. It even
56:05seems like Corinthians is coasting to
56:07victory. Are you all worried about
56:09things that are already in the past? So
56:11, let's focus here, okay? Can I ask
56:13that of you? Uh, I'll tell you, we have
56:16a club to save for ourselves. Whoever
56:18hasn't understood that yet, for God's
56:20sake, it's past time. So, let the
56:23politicians kill each other, because
56:24there's nothing more we can do there.
56:27Here we do, here we still have actions
56:29we can take. I would also like to ask
56:34those who haven't left a like yet,
56:36regardless of which channel you are
56:38watching on, on Voz da Arquibancada FC,
56:40on Arquibancada 1910, on the website,
56:43on the official Safiel channel, on any
56:45channel that is rebroadcasting, leave
56:47your like. Help us make this live reach
56:51more and more Corinthians fans, alright
56:54? Just on Voz, we have 100 people here
56:57and we have 850 likes. Leave a like,
57:00help make the information reach
57:02everyone, okay? Carlos, uh, can you
57:06talk a little more about that part
57:09regarding the Corinthians world? Uh-huh
57:12. Because, and this is a, is a point
57:14that, look, ever since we opened Voz da
57:17Arquibancada FC here, it is something I
57:20hit on very hard. Because Corinthians
57:23has such great potential to really
57:26create its world, its universe, and
57:28transform that, right, into what we
57:31call, uh, intangible value. Because
57:34it's a matter of brand, it's a matter
57:37of you, uh, making, how can I put it,
57:39giving benefits to the fans within
57:42their own home. Anyway, can you talk a
57:46little more about what that part of the
57:48project encompasses?
57:51>> Sure. I think we can start by thinking
57:56about this concept starting from, uh, a
58:00, uh, a very distinctive characteristic
58:04, uh, uh, of Safiel, right? And I'm
58:09going to paraphrase Marília Ruiz here.
58:13Marília Ruiz always says that
58:15Corinthians was born before the Social
58:17Club.
58:18>> Perfect.
58:20>> First, Corinthians was born, then the
58:24Social Club was born, and due to
58:27historical evolution, Corinthians ended
58:30up under the Social Club, right? And
58:36Corinthians then started to be managed
58:39and owned by the Social Club, which
58:42today has approximately, from what we
58:45hear, 10,000 members, of which about
58:483,000, 3,000 and some odd voters. But
58:53what is the real Corinthians? The real
58:55Corinthians is not this social club,
58:57with all due, with all the respect we
59:00have for the social club, right?
59:02Corinthians is the Corinthians fans.
59:05Safiel has always started from the
59:07logic that Corinthians belongs to the
59:09fans, not the social club. I think the
59:13fans delegated to the social club the
59:17care of the club, the
59:20>> administration, but unfortunately the
59:23social club has proven, time and again
59:25over consecutive decades, and by a
59:28system that has become anachronistic in
59:31the football industry as well. The
59:35social club has proven itself
59:38insufficient and incapable of taking
59:41care of something that belongs to 35
59:45million Corinthians fans. And it's no
59:49use telling me that the fan who doesn't
59:52have a membership title of the social
59:54club is not as much of a fan as the one
59:58who does. Sorry, that doesn't exist. In
1:00:01fact, Corinthians
1:00:03>> is only not in a worse state because it
1:00:07has those 30, 35 million fans.
1:00:10>> Okay? So Safiel is born from this
1:00:14concept. Look, Corinthians belongs to
1:00:17the fans, so who is going to buy
1:00:19Safiel's shares? We are going to offer
1:00:22shares on equal terms to 30, 35 million
1:00:24fans, right? And we want the largest
1:00:28number of fans, those who cannot buy in
1:00:31the initial offering, to be able to
1:00:33acquire shares over time, right? With
1:00:37this, we might have a club, I don't
1:00:39know, Bayern has 400,000 members,
1:00:41Corinthians here under the Safiel model
1:00:43could reach 1 million members, who
1:00:44knows, maybe even exceed that, right?
1:00:49So, Bonô, based on this logic, look
1:00:51how interesting, right? Based on this
1:00:55logic, I look at Corinthians, right?
1:00:59And if I cast a look and try to
1:01:02describe what this entity is, I say:"
1:01:06Man, this is not a football club that
1:01:10is managed by a civil association with
1:01:1410,000 members and that has
1:01:19>> 35 million
1:01:19>> 35 million supporters. No, Corinthians
1:01:22is more than that. Corinthians is a
1:01:24religion. Corinthians is a community of
1:01:27Corinthians fans, and this community
1:01:29has a football club that it cheers for.
1:01:31Perfect.
1:01:32>> But it, but it identifies
1:01:36>> with many other values that aren't just
1:01:39about the match result.
1:01:42>> Uh-huh. It identifies with grit, it
1:01:45identifies with the struggles it faces
1:01:49in daily life. It identifies with faith
1:01:53, it identifies
1:01:55>> with commitment,
1:01:56>> with commitment, it identifies with, uh
1:02:00, loyalty, right? Our fan base is loyal
1:02:03. So we are going to follow, we are
1:02:05going to cheer, we aren't going to,
1:02:06with a few exceptions, right? We aren't
1:02:08going to leave before the 45th minute,
1:02:10before the final whistle. I say with a
1:02:12few exceptions because I'm often at the
1:02:14stadium and I see Corinthians fans
1:02:17leaving, you know?
1:02:18>> True.
1:02:18>> But anyway.
1:02:20>> Well, if we are a community, I need to
1:02:25look at this organization, this company
1:02:29, this asset, as such, right? I cannot
1:02:34turn the Corinthians fan into a mere
1:02:37spectator, nor a mere consumer. Why do
1:02:42you think these campaigns, BMG and so
1:02:45many others, don't take off? Because
1:02:49the fan isn't part of the structure.
1:02:51>> Exactly.
1:02:52>> Get it? The fan is not part of the
1:02:53structure. The fan feels manipulated,
1:02:56they feel used, they don't even know if
1:02:58the BMG account will really be well
1:03:00utilized by the club or not, because
1:03:02they no longer trust this
1:03:04administrative model, right? So, from
1:03:08the moment that Safiel opens up
1:03:10Corinthians to these 35 million fans,
1:03:13we invite them to be part of the
1:03:15structure because we see ourselves as
1:03:18something bigger now, not just a social
1:03:20group that takes care of a football
1:03:23team. And look how interesting, Bon:
1:03:28the Corinthians fan will be the
1:03:30economic engine of this ecosystem, not
1:03:32the customer, they will be the economic
1:03:34engine. And so we create a concept here
1:03:39that is a concept of self-combustion,
1:03:43right? So, what do I mean? I have here
1:03:47on one side 35 million Corinthians fans
1:03:51who are part of this country, this
1:03:54republic, right? Who want to be part of
1:03:59it now because they understand that
1:04:00Corinthians is now managed for the
1:04:02benefit of this community, right? They
1:04:06trust the model, right? Because now the
1:04:10model functions like a company with the
1:04:12governance level of a publicly traded
1:04:13firm, with full transparency, full
1:04:15accountability, and full
1:04:16professionalism, right? In other words,
1:04:19Corinthians is no longer rigged by
1:04:21political groups or power groups, right
1:04:22? Whoever is there is there because
1:04:25they are a good professional, right? I
1:04:28begin to attract brands to also
1:04:30participate in this ecosystem. "I want
1:04:33to be part of this community." We’ve
1:04:35always talked about the Bayer model,
1:04:37right? The brands that are there, they
1:04:39want to be part of the community too.
1:04:42>> They don't simply want to
1:04:44>> stamp their brand. It’s not a brand
1:04:48sale, it’s a partnership.
1:04:50>> It’s "I don’t want to buy
1:04:52advertising space.""I want""
1:04:56>> this community to see me as part of it
1:04:59as well."
1:05:00>> Exactly,
1:05:00>> right? So, the more Corinthians fans I
1:05:04have who feel they are part of this
1:05:06community, a transparent community, the
1:05:08more brands I have, right? More brands,
1:05:12more benefits for these Corinthians
1:05:14fans as well, right? So today, Bonô,
1:05:18technology allows, for example, for me
1:05:21to have, within a fan membership app,
1:05:24my iFood, my digital account, my
1:05:27insurance, and my Corinthians TV with
1:05:30exclusive content, because the club
1:05:33will also turn into a media club. In
1:05:37other words, I start bringing in a
1:05:38series of products and services that
1:05:40also generate convenience for the
1:05:42Corinthians fan's daily life. So this
1:05:45feeds itself, which is what you were
1:05:46talking about, self-combustion,
1:05:48something like that, right?
1:05:49>> That’s it. That’s it.
1:05:51Self-combustion. The more fans and more
1:05:53transparency, the more professionalism,
1:05:55the more brands, right?
1:05:57>> Yes. And the more you deliver back to
1:06:00the fan.
1:06:00>> Exactly. The more benefits I give. With
1:06:04more benefits, I have more consumption
1:06:06within this ecosystem. With more
1:06:08consumption, I generate much more
1:06:10revenue for soccer, much more revenue
1:06:13for soccer. With more revenue for
1:06:16soccer, I build electrifying squads,
1:06:18super competitive squads, right? And I
1:06:23make sure the fan receives this benefit
1:06:26, right? This community receives this
1:06:29benefit too, emotional, sporting, the
1:06:31pride of rooting for the team, and more
1:06:33fans will want to be part of it. In
1:06:35other words, we create an ecosystem
1:06:37here that is like a living organism. It
1:06:40feeds itself, right? And when one part
1:06:42does well, the next one does even
1:06:44better. And the next one even better,
1:06:47and that’s how we go on in an
1:06:48infinite loop, okay? So, when we talk
1:06:51about transforming Corinthians from a
1:06:53soccer club into a community, this is
1:06:55what we’re talking about: that the
1:06:56economic strength of this community
1:07:01revert directly to this community,
1:07:03whether through personal benefits in
1:07:06their consumption, or through sports
1:07:08benefits, because I have more money,
1:07:10much more money actually, for soccer.
1:07:13This will be unprecedented in Brazilian
1:07:15soccer, okay? the revenue potential. We
1:07:18are still doing the math correctly here
1:07:20, but we are talking about tripling
1:07:21Corinthians' revenue, and we are
1:07:23talking about recurring revenue.
1:07:25>> Uh-huh.
1:07:26>> Right? We are not talking about player
1:07:27sales here. It's that money that always
1:07:30comes in, right?
1:07:32>> So, Bonô, look how interesting this is
1:07:34. Now I'm going to give a new angle
1:07:38here on the "Safiel" versus a private
1:07:41SAF, okay? We have always defended here
1:07:45at Safiel em Campo and in interviews
1:07:48that the SAF should be the Corinthians
1:07:51'SAF for historical and ontological
1:07:53reasons. But now I state here that,
1:07:58also for economic reasons, it makes
1:08:00much more sense for Corinthians to
1:08:02belong to Corinthians fans and for them
1:08:05to be part of this structure than to be
1:08:08a private SAF where fans are not in the
1:08:11structure, where fans are mere
1:08:13spectators and consumers.
1:08:16>> So I leave this message here for the
1:08:18current member at Parque São Jorge as
1:08:19well, right? it's to place the
1:08:21Corinthians fan at the center of the
1:08:24ecosystem.
1:08:24>> Exactly. Exactly. And as an integral
1:08:27part, right? And for the economic
1:08:29strength of this community to revert
1:08:31into more sports competitiveness, right
1:08:34? So, the concept from 10,000 feet is
1:08:37this, right? We are working to refine
1:08:41this. We will obviously have plenty of
1:08:46time to make this new republic more
1:08:50tangible for the fans and for the
1:08:53brands. But we have already been
1:08:57talking to brands, we have been talking
1:09:00to investors, we have been talking to
1:09:02advertisers, and we have even been
1:09:04talking to some of the candidates about
1:09:07this concept who also believe in it and
1:09:10are making it increasingly tangible,
1:09:12okay? So that is the path for the new
1:09:15People's Republic of Corinthians, for
1:09:17the benefit of the fans and for the
1:09:19benefit of our community and the soccer
1:09:21team. place the Corinthians fan. I will
1:09:25make an analogy here because that is
1:09:26what it is based on, right? Putting the
1:09:29customer at the center of the business
1:09:30has everything to go right, and it is
1:09:32the model currently used in the market,
1:09:34right? You ensure that, besides the
1:09:38customer having a sense of belonging,
1:09:41they also generate results and are
1:09:43happy because the results they generate
1:09:46come back to them in terms of service.
1:09:51>> whether through the channel, right,
1:09:53through Corinthians TV with exclusive
1:09:55content, or through bonuses for club
1:09:58products, or discounts on tickets. Look
1:10:02, there are so many possibilities here
1:10:04that it’s really hard to bet against
1:10:07something like this.
1:10:09>> And, and they aren't just a mere
1:10:10customer, right, Bonô? They are an
1:10:12owner.
1:10:13>> They are an owner. There’s also that.
1:10:15That’s true.
1:10:15>> They are an owner. They are an owner.
1:10:17They, they can buy shares, they can
1:10:20sell shares, they can receive those 25%
1:10:23in dividends, right? I saw many people
1:10:26worried, saying, "Oh, but paying
1:10:28dividends will take money away from
1:10:29football," but we will generate such
1:10:31vigorous revenue for football with this
1:10:33model, right? Uh, which
1:10:38>> look, it’s very, it’s really cool
1:10:39because, again, we went about three or
1:10:41four weeks without speaking, and what
1:10:43you’re telling us here isn't
1:10:44something that just popped up, it’s
1:10:46not something you just came up with, it
1:10:48was always part of the project,
1:10:51>> right? It's just that perhaps the
1:10:53timing was much more about talking
1:10:55about structure, how to do the
1:10:56fundraising, how to do, well, the whole
1:10:59part that needed to change, prove that
1:11:01it had to change,
1:11:03>> exactly, prove that the path being
1:11:05followed wouldn't work, as it didn't.
1:11:09And now I think we're at a point here
1:11:11to detail some, some fronts, right, a
1:11:13bit better. Let me just send a
1:11:16shout-out here, look who’s with us.
1:11:19Luís de Paula. Great De Paula. Hey,
1:11:22Buon. Guys from Safiel. It's important
1:11:25to always address this subject. Big hug
1:11:27to everyone following the live stream.
1:11:29De Paula from Energia 97, from Estádio
1:11:3397. Big hug, my friend De Paula is
1:11:36there. Uh, every now and then I send
1:11:39some messages there, give him some
1:11:41nudges. Very good commentary. De Paula
1:11:43is a beast. A beast. Big hug, De Paula.
1:11:49Folks, look, we have several questions
1:11:50here that the Voz team separated,
1:11:52there’s super chat too. I know our
1:11:56time isn't very, very long here, but I
1:11:58wanted to ask a question that I think
1:12:00many people want to know: you made
1:12:02yourselves available to the candidates,
1:12:05right? Uh, to talk to all of them,
1:12:09basically, to understand, right, how
1:12:12open they would be to talking about
1:12:15Safiel. Uh, and I think everyone wants
1:12:18to know how these talks are going, if
1:12:20they're even happening, right? I don't
1:12:22know, but what was the dynamic for you
1:12:24guys? Were you going to contact them,
1:12:27or were they going to contact you? What
1:12:30can you tell us about that? Well, first
1:12:36we waited for the formalization of the
1:12:38candidates, because if we did it sooner
1:12:41, we would be wasting time on people
1:12:43who apparently declared themselves
1:12:45candidates but ended up not confirming
1:12:48it. With the confirmation of the
1:12:53candidacy, we sent messages, spoke in
1:12:57person, and invited the candidates to
1:13:01talk to us with a constructive
1:13:03perspective, to understand the project
1:13:07and help build it. The project isn't
1:13:10mine, it's not Carlos's; the project
1:13:12belongs to every Corinthians fan. If
1:13:14there were DNA in the project today,
1:13:16you would find the DNA of a number of
1:13:18people there. From all the different
1:13:23Corinthians circles, right? The one who
1:13:27is most advanced with us is José
1:13:30Augusto Mendes, right? We've said this
1:13:34before, he expressly declared his
1:13:36support for Safiel and says he will
1:13:39sign the non-binding and non-exclusive
1:13:42proposal at the beginning of his term,
1:13:44and will also listen to other proposals
1:13:47, which we also agree with, right?
1:13:51>> Because if there's a better proposal
1:13:53than ours, count us in, right? We'll
1:13:54embrace it and go along with it, right?
1:13:57And we've already had online meetings
1:14:00with them and we explained the project,
1:14:06answered questions, and received
1:14:08suggestions, and they're still in the
1:14:10middle of a campaign now, right? So
1:14:13there's a parallel agenda, right? But
1:14:16>> it's happening. That's it. So, the talk
1:14:18is happening.
1:14:19>> Good, good. As for the other candidates
1:14:24, we likewise sent invitations to them
1:14:27all, and we are waiting for scheduling
1:14:30and potentially moving forward with
1:14:32cooperation.
1:14:36>> Uh-huh. Look, there's something you
1:14:38repeated here, and there was a live
1:14:39stream I did—you weren't there—it
1:14:41was a Voz live, right? And I don't even
1:14:45know if Carlos watched it, but I shared
1:14:47a situation that happened here, a phone
1:14:49call I made to Carlos; honestly, I
1:14:51don't remember what it was, but it was
1:14:53probably to ask if some news was true
1:14:56or not. And in the middle of the
1:14:59conversation, Carlos said: "But Buono,
1:15:02why are you worried about that?"
1:15:06Because, look, if this project really
1:15:08exists and it's better, I'll be the
1:15:10first to raise my hand here and say: "
1:15:12Look, I'm in, let's make it happen."
1:15:16I'm not a defender of—do you remember
1:15:17that, Carlos?
1:15:18>> Uh-huh.
1:15:19>> I'm not exclusively a defender of
1:15:21Safiel; I'm a defender of a solution
1:15:22for the club. And you said it again,
1:15:25just now you said the exact same thing.
1:15:28If there’s a project that is better
1:15:30than Safiel, man, we're in. And this is
1:15:34of such great transparency that those
1:15:37who really understood what Safiel is,
1:15:40who understood it's not selling the
1:15:43club, and not anyone's personal project
1:15:46, when they hear this kind of statement
1:15:49, they understand why people fight for
1:15:52Safiel, right? So, folks, it’s worth
1:15:56reinforcing this point, because I don't
1:15:59see anyone else doing this. It's always
1:16:02"my way or the highway." Ah, if mine is
1:16:04—it's a bit of what you were just
1:16:05saying a moment ago, Edu. If it's my
1:16:08way, great. If it's not, I'm against it
1:16:10. Man, but what if the other side is
1:16:12better? Isn't that true?
1:16:14>> Without a doubt. Including, uh, we have
1:16:17principles, right? In our project,
1:16:20there are structuring principles in the
1:16:22first part, at the beginning of the
1:16:24project, uh, that are non-negotiable in
1:16:26our view. So, any structure, uh, that
1:16:30is permeable to political capture by
1:16:32groups that caused the club to reach
1:16:35this situation, will not be a project
1:16:37that Safiel will support. Period, right
1:16:41? "Oh, but I have everything." It has
1:16:44the face of Safiel, the smell of Safiel
1:16:46, the manner of Safiel, the idea of
1:16:48Safiel, but the control is held by
1:16:50those who generated a 3-billion debt
1:16:53there. Man, it doesn't work. It doesn't
1:16:57work. Because it's that story I told a
1:17:00moment ago: if you want to do something
1:17:02different, if you want to reach a
1:17:03different destination, you have to take
1:17:05a different path. If you follow the
1:17:08same trail with the same people, you
1:17:10will arrive at the same place you are
1:17:13today. It's as simple as that. "Oh, but
1:17:15the governance structure—" but who
1:17:17defines the governance? Who defines the
1:17:19people who are there? I can have
1:17:21whatever name you want in a statutory
1:17:24position, right? The director of
1:17:28anything will be people from that same
1:17:31core group. That doesn't work. So you
1:17:34don't have, and will not have, our
1:17:35support. Oh, but we can manage, do
1:17:38everything nicely and such. And we’ll
1:17:40get out of this even without outside
1:17:42capital. We don't believe that. It’s
1:17:46a simple and basic math equation, right
1:17:49? It’s there in the in the launch.
1:17:53>> We repeated it today, we’re here, and
1:17:55we’ll repeat it always. There’s no
1:17:57accounting trick, it’s mathematical.
1:17:59You take your revenue and you spend 70%
1:18:02of it on payroll and 50%of it on
1:18:04interest. That’s 120%. In other words
1:18:09, for every $ 1 I earn, I have $ 1.20
1:18:11in interest and payroll expenses,
1:18:13period. Without paying the rest,
1:18:14without investing, without anything.
1:18:16Man, there’s no magic here. "Oh, but
1:18:18in 30 years I can do it." You can’t,
1:18:21because in 30 years you won’t have
1:18:24the capacity to invest
1:18:25>> worse
1:18:26>> at the same level as your competitors.
1:18:29And your competitors with more
1:18:31investment capacity than you will hire
1:18:33the best players, have the best teams,
1:18:35win the best championships, the best
1:18:37prizes, and so on. And we will fall
1:18:40further and further behind. It’s so
1:18:43obvious, it’s so clear, but the fan
1:18:46who still hasn't understood and resists
1:18:49, eh, succumbs, right, to the siren
1:18:52songs of some, right? But here at
1:18:56Safiel, someone asked, right, eh, "Oh,
1:18:58is Safiel going to give up, never get
1:19:00involved, and so on?" No, we are going
1:19:02to stay here, we won’t give up,
1:19:04we’re staying here. Sometimes we pull
1:19:06back a bit to be able to sharpen the
1:19:08saw, right? That story about how you
1:19:09have to stop the saw to sharpen it
1:19:11because otherwise it won’t cut
1:19:12anymore, right? We sharpen the saw, we
1:19:14improve a little,
1:19:15>> apply some wax,
1:19:17>> apply wax, get things adjusted, and get
1:19:18back in the game. That’s how it works
1:19:20. And we will move on. There’s a lot
1:19:23left to happen. You have the judicial
1:19:25intervention, and we don’t know what
1:19:26will happen. Eh, we have the election,
1:19:29and I don’t know if the candidate who
1:19:31supports Safiel or some other candidate
1:19:33who might support Safiel will be
1:19:35elected. Eh, we have a financial
1:19:38collapse—God forbid it gets worse—
1:19:39but we’ve already reached a breaking
1:19:41point, right? We have the owner-led SAF
1:19:45lurking, waiting for the moment and the
1:19:47hour to step in and snatch the club for
1:19:48pennies on the dollar, right? Anyone
1:19:51who doesn’t believe that is naive,
1:19:53doesn't know what's going on, isn't
1:19:55seeing what’s happening all around,
1:19:56right? We have a new generation of
1:20:00members who have been waiting for 5
1:20:02years to be able to change this system.
1:20:05Even if it takes 5 years, this system
1:20:08will end, Bono. The generation of
1:20:10members that joined and doesn't vote
1:20:12yet will vote. Some will vote this year
1:20:16, more next year, more the year after,
1:20:17and they will become the majority. to
1:20:21be able to change this system, right?
1:20:23We have the system being challenged in
1:20:25court, right? The lifetime members
1:20:28being challenged in court, the 5-year
1:20:29term being challenged in court. You
1:20:32have a huge litigation from Corinthians
1:20:34fans outside who are not accepting the
1:20:35system. So, uh, there's so much
1:20:37happening and Safiel, someone asked
1:20:39here that I saw in the chat, right? Uh,
1:20:42oh, if there's a court injunction,
1:20:43Safiel ends. Guys, Safiel is not the
1:20:46problem, Safiel is the solution.
1:20:50Because all these problems here,
1:20:52election, court injunction, collapse,
1:20:54owner-led SAF, new generation of
1:20:56members, etc., all these problems need
1:20:58an exit. SAF is positioning itself as
1:21:01this exit, right? Maybe there's another
1:21:04one, maybe there's another one. Let's
1:21:05put them on the table and compare which
1:21:07one is best. So, we are just improving.
1:21:10Time favors Safiel. The problem is that
1:21:14it not only favors SAF, but it
1:21:15sacrifices Corinthians, right,
1:21:17unnecessarily. People are not, uh,
1:21:20giving it importance and think that
1:21:24time solves everything. Time does not
1:21:27solve everything. Time is finite. Time
1:21:30is scarce. Time runs out, right? I die,
1:21:33you die, Carlos dies, all the people
1:21:36out there, they die. The institution,
1:21:38right, God willing, will never die, but
1:21:40it can die too. as so many others have
1:21:43before. I
1:21:43>> wanted, I wanted to make an addition
1:21:46here to, to Salus's comment, which is
1:21:48very good to bring some reality to you,
1:21:50Bonô, and to everyone watching us too.
1:21:54We started talking quite a bit here
1:21:56also with brands and investors in this,
1:21:59in this process, okay? And, and we
1:22:04heard, we hear frequently, uh, from
1:22:07top-tier companies, from top-tier firms
1:22:11, they say exactly this: "Look, I'll
1:22:16talk to this project, I won't talk to
1:22:19the association, because the
1:22:21association has been here before, the
1:22:23meetings were opaque or there was
1:22:26already a deal in the past that didn't
1:22:28go well." So here there is an, an order
1:22:33here, uh, from the owners of the board,
1:22:37uh, that, uh, that deals, uh,
1:22:40unfortunately, right? I don't say this
1:22:44with pleasure, it's just an observation
1:22:45to say that our bankruptcy today is not
1:22:47just a financial bankruptcy, it is a
1:22:49bankruptcy of credibility as well,
1:22:51>> moral, right?
1:22:52>> Moral, of credibility and which drives
1:22:54away major partners, right? and and I
1:22:57think it's not the fans' fault, right?
1:23:00Because I I saw an executive trying to
1:23:02push this onto onto the fans, right?
1:23:05>> So, uh, that is why it is important
1:23:08that the project be finished from
1:23:10within now, you know, Bonô? Because it
1:23:14has to be a Corinthians project, it has
1:23:17to be a project, uh, that goes through
1:23:20there, that is improved by good members
1:23:23, uh, so that it can be voted on, so it
1:23:26can be turned into a Corinthians
1:23:29project and that Parque São Jorge
1:23:32finally recognizes that Corinthians
1:23:34belongs to the Corinthians fans, not to
1:23:38the, uh, social club. The social club
1:23:41has run Corinthians for a few decades,
1:23:44but, uh, it's time for us to open up
1:23:47Corinthians.
1:23:48>> Modern football no longer allows it.
1:23:50That is the truth, right? Uh, and don't
1:23:53come again telling me that, oh, look at
1:23:56the rival, look at Flamengo, look how
1:23:58they poured a lot of money into both
1:24:00clubs, anyway. Uh, folks, let me rush
1:24:04through the super chats here, otherwise
1:24:05there won't be enough time. Feitosa,
1:24:08the Corinthians fan. Salúci Carlos,
1:24:11hello. Today you are you two are
1:24:13members, not members with each other,
1:24:15members of Corinthians. And is it so
1:24:18hard to gather the required number of
1:24:20members to hold an assembly and vote on
1:24:23the SAF by force? The time for talk is
1:24:26gone, there is none left. It's the
1:24:29issue of the the General Assembly,
1:24:33right, of one-fifth of the members,
1:24:34such. Do you want to answer quickly? We
1:24:36have already answered this question a
1:24:38few times
1:24:38>> already. I I circulated Feitosa, first
1:24:41a hug to you. A petition circulated the
1:24:45other day in one of the groups there,
1:24:47already from members with certified
1:24:48signatures, etc. For this purpose. I
1:24:52confess that I don't know how that
1:24:54stands, but I remember that it already
1:24:56had an important number of signatures
1:24:59and I think the goal was 2,000 and
1:25:01something. Uh, but there is already an
1:25:04initiative in this regard, yes, so that
1:25:06the call takes place with a fifth of
1:25:08the members with voting rights.
1:25:11>> Important, right, Edu? I will I will
1:25:13emphasize again the importance of the
1:25:15elections. If the members choose the
1:25:18candidate committed to change, uh,
1:25:21everything becomes easier, right? this
1:25:25this this candidate, this president, he
1:25:29, uh, he will be legiti-legitimized by
1:25:32the votes of the members to make the
1:25:35transformations, right? So I think that
1:25:39nothing, there is no shorter path than
1:25:42the elections. Now,
1:25:44>> now there's an important point, right,
1:25:46which is the question, uh, let me ask
1:25:48you a question. Did you receive your
1:25:51monthly payment slips normally? Do you
1:25:54know,
1:25:55>> mine is still paid by credit card
1:25:57because I'm in that period where you
1:25:59pay those first 10 installments.
1:26:01>> You do, okay?
1:26:02>> Mine is on the card,
1:26:04>> do you know, Edu, or not?
1:26:05>> So, my first slip is in November, you
1:26:07see?
1:26:08>> Oh, I see.
1:26:09>> I also became a member in February,
1:26:11>> it's 10 installments of 280. Uh, and
1:26:14during this period you don't pay. So,
1:26:16February, March, May, June, July,
1:26:18August, September, October, November.
1:26:20In November now I should receive the
1:26:21slip,
1:26:22>> okay? Because a lot of people aren't
1:26:24receiving it like that at all, you see?
1:26:26I saw it.
1:26:27>> All right. Uh, João, could you talk
1:26:31about the SAF scenario in a Série B
1:26:34scenario? Get out of here, man. Sharp
1:26:39drop in revenue and SAF being
1:26:41negotiated by a revenue multiple. Do
1:26:45you think acceptance inside would be
1:26:46easier if they manage the feat of
1:26:48taking Corinthians down? I'll summarize
1:26:51here. Do you think there would be an
1:26:53easier adoption of the SAF?
1:26:56>> Neither easier nor harder.
1:26:58>> That's not the point in there, right?
1:27:00>> It's not that. And our sports situation
1:27:03is already bad, so we'll have to do
1:27:05recovery work anyway. Uh, no, no,
1:27:10>> the truth is that you'll have Série A
1:27:12debt and Série B revenue, right? The
1:27:14situation will get harder.
1:27:16>> But I think, again, right? It doesn't,
1:27:20it doesn't really reach a point that,
1:27:23uh, creates an impediment, right? I
1:27:27don't see it that way, logically. Uh,
1:27:29the ideal would be not to, right? But
1:27:33if we have to face this, let's go.
1:27:35Let's roll up our sleeves, let's face
1:27:36it, and let's do everything that needs
1:27:38to be done. It's important we start
1:27:40quickly,
1:27:40>> but it won't be necessary, God willing.
1:27:43Enough suffering for the Corinthians
1:27:45fan. Leonardo Santana, in a scenario of
1:27:48judicial intervention, how to proceed
1:27:50with the SAF?
1:27:53>> It's what I said, right? Uh, we went to
1:27:55testify in the intervention, okay? Both
1:27:57I and Carlos, twice, we were even
1:28:00called to testify and, and, and
1:28:02provided clarifications on what was
1:28:05asked of us. And if the intervention is
1:28:10requested and if the intervention is
1:28:12granted, the receiver will take the
1:28:15necessary measures and Safiel will be
1:28:17at the receiver's disposal, right?
1:28:21Actually, Corinthians continues, only
1:28:23the manager changes; it won't be the
1:28:25organic manager, let's call it that,
1:28:27from within, an elected statutory
1:28:29official, but it will be a judicial
1:28:31receiver. But the dynamics don't change
1:28:33, the dynamics continue. The final say,
1:28:35we all know, belongs to the member.
1:28:37>> That's it. Remembering that he doesn't
1:28:39have the power to implement Safiel.
1:28:41What he can do is sign the non-binding
1:28:44document, right? To
1:28:45>> he can call an assembly for a vote,
1:28:47right? Perfect.
1:28:49>> Exactly. But the final say is always
1:28:52with the member. PL Gomes, could a
1:28:56potentially revamped Corinthians TV
1:28:58have a category of subscription, you
1:29:01know, for broadcasting matches, at
1:29:03least internationally, without league
1:29:06restrictions? Without a doubt, Pele. In
1:29:12due time, you will get to know the
1:29:15media and entertainment plan of the New
1:29:19Popular Republic of Corinthians. The
1:29:24potential here for content generation,
1:29:28intellectual property, broadcasting,
1:29:32Corinthians podcasts, exclusives, in
1:29:35short, the Republic will have its own
1:29:39TV channel.
1:29:42>> Good. Oh, look who's here, D Eduardo
1:29:45sent a little trick here, huh? He sent
1:29:49some Latin here. That's it, Alan.
1:29:53Invenian Alvacian fell off the horse
1:29:56because I know Latin, you see D Eduardo
1:29:59? Lie. They translated it for me here:
1:30:03"I will either find a way or create one
1:30:05." So there it is. Thank you, D Eduardo
1:30:09. He tried to catch us, but the folks
1:30:11here at Voz are sharp. They already
1:30:13sent
1:30:13>> D Eduardo who is not Eduardo Salúci,
1:30:16huh? To this day there are people who
1:30:18think he is me, look. I'm here. How did
1:30:20he send that live there? I'm here, look
1:30:21, with my hand still in sight, right? A
1:30:24hug to Eduardo there.
1:30:25>> A hug to D Eduardo there. And one last
1:30:29one here, look. Let me pick it up here.
1:30:34I had already done this one. Let me see
1:30:36what the guys sent here. It's here.
1:30:39This one is one, and actually I'll have
1:30:42to do two, okay? Marco Antônio sent,
1:30:45Buono, after all, regarding the amount
1:30:47that was paid extra for the arena, is
1:30:50there any foundation? Actually, the
1:30:52question I wanted to ask you is
1:30:54different, right? I said in a live
1:30:56stream the other day the following:
1:30:59first, that I think it's absurd, if the
1:31:02information circulating is true and
1:31:05actually happens, to sell the arena's
1:31:08naming rights for 15 years, which is
1:31:10what's being reported, in exchange for
1:31:13the debt, excluding the entire banking
1:31:16operation. I won't even bring that up
1:31:19as it will only make it worse, just
1:31:21this first part. Why? We would be
1:31:25saying we're going to sell the Naming
1:31:29Rights for 15 years for about 640
1:31:32million reais, in a stadium, folks,
1:31:35that hosted the World Cup opener, was
1:31:39the top pick for NFL games, will host
1:31:42the women's world championship next
1:31:45year, anyway, Olympics, look, there's
1:31:49so much. Neo Química Arena is indeed a
1:31:53model stadium for the world in South
1:31:56America, right? And I said it was a
1:32:01very bad deal, because you can
1:32:03negotiate this for over a billion, if
1:32:05done the right way, professionally and
1:32:07all that. And then I added the
1:32:13following, and I think it's very bad
1:32:15thinking about a project like Safiel,
1:32:18because if you sign a contract like
1:32:21that, Safiel loses an important
1:32:23negotiation mechanism, right? It's an
1:32:28important asset that Safiel would have
1:32:31to make more money for Corinthians '
1:32:33soccer. Was I wrong or am I right about
1:32:36this?
1:32:37>> No, you are absolutely right, Bonô. we
1:32:39cannot, and this is one of our biggest
1:32:42fears, okay? Is that Corinthians burns
1:32:46assets in order to
1:32:50>> out of desperation, right?
1:32:51>> In exchange for desperation, exactly.
1:32:53So, we need to stay very calm right now
1:32:55. I think this Arena operation for us
1:32:58here, looking from afar, is very opaque
1:33:00. The signing of an NDA was celebrated
1:33:05as if a deal had been closed.
1:33:07>> Exactly, man. which to us seemed like
1:33:11political exaggeration, from both sides
1:33:13, okay? Eh, so, it's reckless that an
1:33:21asset as strategic as the Arena's name
1:33:24can be put into a negotiation,
1:33:27especially for values that might not be
1:33:31correct, okay? Uh-huh.
1:33:35>> So, Corinthians, Corinthians needs
1:33:38partners that have dynamism to
1:33:40participate in this community. A
1:33:46state-owned bank is not suited for this
1:33:48, let's make that very clear, okay? We
1:33:53have today financial and banking
1:33:55institutions that are much more dynamic
1:33:58, much more agile, and much more
1:34:01competent to deliver digital services
1:34:03to us Corinthians fans, for example,
1:34:06right? So, personally, I view this move
1:34:11with a lot of concern, not just from a
1:34:13financial standpoint, but also
1:34:15strategically regarding what is
1:34:17intended here with the new "Popular
1:34:19Republic of Corinthians."
1:34:22>> And do a little math, right? Just some
1:34:24very, very basic math. Uh, let's
1:34:26imagine that Safi advances and we raise
1:34:29the funds. OK.
1:34:31>> Uh-huh.
1:34:32>> I want to pay off the arena.
1:34:34>> With 400 million, I pay off the arena,
1:34:36agreed?
1:34:37>> Yes. I actually think it's even less.
1:34:40So the value I have to assess for my
1:34:42gain in selling the naming rights is
1:34:44based on 400, not on 650.
1:34:47>> 400 over 15 years comes out to 20-
1:34:48something million reais per year.
1:34:50>> Uh-huh.
1:34:51>> They said it's worth 70.
1:34:53>> Exactly.
1:34:54>> It's worth 70. I'm giving it away for
1:34:5626. And why am I setting off fireworks?
1:34:58"Ah, it's paid off." No, you didn't pay
1:34:59it off. You front-loaded revenue.
1:35:03Because you'll pay off the arena and
1:35:05won't have the naming rights revenue in
1:35:06the following years. And you're paying
1:35:09it off at the full value, not the
1:35:12negotiated value of 350 or 400. And I'm
1:35:16not even getting into the merits of
1:35:18whether there are illegal or improper
1:35:21charges there.
1:35:22>> Damn, I was waiting for you to finish.
1:35:24It's for the expert. Uh,
1:35:26>> I I I wasn't going to ask this, but I
1:35:27was going to jump on that point, Edu,
1:35:29because there's no way around it. I
1:35:31know we're way over time, but, uh, in
1:35:34this situation, right, imagine the
1:35:37following: Safi inherited the asset and
1:35:39everything else, uh, and suddenly we
1:35:42discover, through an expert, a
1:35:44technical person, anyway, that in fact,
1:35:47uh, there is a numerical discrepancy
1:35:50and we don't know what it is. Okay. But
1:35:54there is something there for sure. Uh,
1:35:57how would Safi deal with that? What
1:36:00would I do?
1:36:00>> I would stop absolutely any negotiation
1:36:03until I knew the final value.
1:36:05>> What would I do?
1:36:06>> Yes.
1:36:07>> I would file an action for anticipatory
1:36:09production of evidence. It's an action
1:36:12that isn't even litigious; it's
1:36:14voluntary jurisdiction, it's not even
1:36:15against anyone. I ask for evidence in
1:36:17court. The judge appoints an expert.
1:36:19The expert produces the evidence, makes
1:36:20an official calculation, and gets it
1:36:22ratified. I'm talking about a matter of
1:36:25months and that's it. I have the report
1:36:27. The report will say: "Look, the debt
1:36:29is correct or the debt is wrong." If
1:36:31the debt is correct, I'll say, "Okay,
1:36:32then I'll go negotiate.""Hey, Caixa,
1:36:34it's 650, come on, do it for 300, right
1:36:37?""Ah, not 300, not 400, 350, deal."
1:36:40Deal. We pay it off and move on, right?
1:36:43If the debt is wrong, oh, it's not 650,
1:36:46it's, it's 300. Oh, so the debt is
1:36:49settled. 300, cool. I want to pay it
1:36:51off here, I'll pay it off for 100k,
1:36:53150k, I'll negotiate. That's it.
1:36:55>> But nothing before that, right, Edu?
1:36:57Nothing before being sure. It’s as
1:36:59simple as that. You have a provision in
1:37:01, in, in the procedural legislation for
1:37:03a voluntary jurisdiction measure that
1:37:05is, is created to help you avoid
1:37:07litigation. In other words, I have
1:37:09doubts about whether the, the amount is
1:37:11right or wrong. So, the law allows me,
1:37:13before filing a lawsuit, to perform, uh
1:37:16, evidence in advance.
1:37:18>> Uh-huh. And the evidence will serve to
1:37:20avoid litigation. In other words, uh,
1:37:23if I'm right, I file the lawsuit; if
1:37:25I'm wrong, I drop the action, I paid
1:37:28the court costs and move on, and
1:37:30everything's OK, right? Simple as that.
1:37:34Now, what's inexplicable is everything
1:37:36is fine. When Osmar issues the
1:37:41challenge, "Safiel, which arena do I
1:37:44sign?" Safiel comes along and says "
1:37:48deal." A few days later, an expert
1:37:51appears and says it's wrong. Then they
1:37:54get out of their chairs and go
1:37:56negotiate to pay the full amount. In
1:37:58other words, they don't want Safiel
1:38:00paying it off, they don't want an
1:38:02expert reviewing the calculation, they
1:38:04don't want to open the books, and they
1:38:06go re-negotiate the value to hand over
1:38:0815 years of naming rights to pay a full
1:38:10debt, a debt in full. I don't know if
1:38:12that's it, okay? Because we don't have
1:38:13those negotiations either.
1:38:15>> Uh-huh.
1:38:16>> On the eve of a presidential election,
1:38:19right, on one side, and on the eve of a
1:38:21presidential election on the other side
1:38:23, on both sides, right? So, it's what
1:38:26Carlos said, it was an electioneering
1:38:29ploy, because, uh, it's being handled
1:38:31there by people who aren't even
1:38:33executives, right? It, it, it’s all
1:38:36very strange, it’s all very out of...
1:38:39>> and it's not the first time, right? We
1:38:40saw the same story last time, outside
1:38:42the norm. Well, it's out of the
1:38:44ordinary. The behavior of people and
1:38:47institutions has a rationality, a
1:38:50minimum level of predictability. What
1:38:54the, the, the average person would do
1:38:57would be to get the report. You have to
1:39:00spend, uh, 50, 20, 30, 50, 100, 200,000
1:39:04reais to get the report. Get the report
1:39:07and everything is fine. And we will
1:39:09litigate if we have the right. And we
1:39:11won't litigate if we don't have the
1:39:12right. It’s as simple as that. Now
1:39:14not everything, right? Suddenly it
1:39:16became the deal, right? And
1:39:19>> suddenly everyone in Brasília, right?
1:39:21>> Yeah, everyone in Brasília, I don't
1:39:22know. So,
1:39:24>> and what also became very clear is that
1:39:26Corinthians had absolutely no way to
1:39:29pay the installment, uh, now
1:39:31>> current
1:39:32>> of, of current, if I'm not mistaken, it
1:39:34would be due in November, right?
1:39:37>> Uh, Corinthians was in desperate need
1:39:40of money
1:39:41>> to pay salaries,
1:39:42>> pay salaries, right? And, and this
1:39:46whole movement ended up, uh, producing
1:39:49for Corinthians a, a, a, uh, a
1:39:51suspension of that quarterly payment, a
1:39:55release of the funds that were in the
1:39:58escrow account too, right?
1:40:01>> Uh-huh.
1:40:02>> So it seemed to us that the goal was,
1:40:05was that,
1:40:06>> was that. It was met, right? Yeah, the
1:40:09behavior of Corinthians, Bonosab, it is
1:40:13very similar to the behavior of a, uh,
1:40:16of a drug addict
1:40:18>> and to anticipate
1:40:19>> someone who desperately needs, uh, to
1:40:22get money from somewhere to, Uh-huh.
1:40:26>> to be able to consume that day, right?
1:40:29>> It's a, uh, comparison here that's a
1:40:32bit harsh, but it's true. The patterns
1:40:35are very similar. Right? Look, anything
1:40:38goes to get my dose for today, for
1:40:40today, right? Drawing a parallel that
1:40:44anything goes so that I can pay my
1:40:46bills, the bills that are due today.
1:40:50>> And the, and the club member stays numb
1:40:52, he doesn't see it. You know the story
1:40:55of the turkey that thinks the farmer is
1:40:57his best friend because he gives him
1:40:59food every day and feeds him every day,
1:41:03>> right? Until Christmas arrives, right?
1:41:05The Christmas feast. And the turkey
1:41:06sees that the guy, right, isn't who he
1:41:08thought he was, right, man. This
1:41:11situation, we keep seeing it here and,
1:41:13and, and it is a, a parallel reality
1:41:16that, uh, that is scary, it's scary.
1:41:20Yesterday, to wrap up, yesterday a
1:41:22person from inside the club called me
1:41:24and said: "Bô, I just left a meeting
1:41:26here with, with the president and other
1:41:28people and, like, I don't even know
1:41:30anymore if it's me who lives in another
1:41:32world or if it's him who lives in
1:41:33another world, because we speak
1:41:35different languages.""It's not possible
1:41:38that he doesn't see the size of the
1:41:40hole that Corinthians is in." The
1:41:43>> it happened there on your show, right?
1:41:46you addressing issues, uh, with the
1:41:48president, concerning issues, profound
1:41:50issues
1:41:51>> and he was boasting that he was
1:41:53building a, in his words, a power plant
1:41:55for the arena, right?
1:41:57>> And that he was getting a certification
1:42:00>> ESG,
1:42:01>> uh, ESG for the arena. I mean, it’s
1:42:06such an absurd disconnect from reality
1:42:09that it really shocks, saddens, and
1:42:13revolts you. And I always find myself
1:42:18looking for words here to classify this
1:42:22type of management. And I think the
1:42:25word is, well,
1:42:27>> it’s hideous management, right?
1:42:28It’s a repulsive management. It’s a
1:42:30management, look, I’ll go back to the
1:42:31area here, look. losing the ability to
1:42:34distinguish reality from fiction.
1:42:37>> That’s it,
1:42:38>> that’s it. It’s like someone on
1:42:40drugs, man, that’s it, right? And the
1:42:44mass of people who support a bankrupt
1:42:47old model, they can’t understand the
1:42:50difference. And you just say something
1:42:53difficult and everyone goes, "Oh, the
1:42:55arena, you paid off the arena, you're a
1:42:57champion, Osmar is the best in the
1:42:59world." You didn’t pay off the arena,
1:43:01my friend, you paid off a debt that
1:43:02doesn’t exist, you anticipated
1:43:03revenue, and cheaply at that. You sold
1:43:05your future for cheap, you know? It’s
1:43:08something so obvious to me, it’s so,
1:43:10so, so clear that it really, maybe this
1:43:13motivates us more than it saddens us,
1:43:15you know, Bonô?
1:43:17>> I have no doubt. Look, let me just read
1:43:20this and reply to Fábio. "Bonô,
1:43:22please, look, some comments disappear."
1:43:26No, none disappear. It’s just that
1:43:29the chat, it’s crazy, the whole thing
1:43:31. Messages just keep flying by here.
1:43:35Hey, guys, look. We’ve reached the
1:43:38end of another Safiel in Campo. I want
1:43:41to ask you once again, you who are with
1:43:43us, to share this live stream with more
1:43:46and more Corinthians fans, especially
1:43:48those who haven’t had contact with
1:43:50the Safiel project yet or have
1:43:51questions about the project. You who
1:43:56are there, leave a like here on Voz da
1:43:58Arquibancada FC, subscribe to the
1:44:00official Safiel channel, on
1:44:02Arquibancada 1910. So, regardless of
1:44:07the channel you’re watching on, if
1:44:09you aren't subscribed, subscribe, give
1:44:11it some hype after this video is
1:44:13published, and leave a like on the
1:44:15channel you’re connected to, okay? Ed
1:44:20Edu. Thanks once again. Always a
1:44:24pleasure to do this show with you, and
1:44:26let's keep going.
1:44:29>> I missed you, the show, and talking to
1:44:32the viewers, to the whole audience of
1:44:35Voz Arquibancada FC, Arquibancada 1910,
1:44:38and Safiel, right? It’s the three
1:44:41channels.
1:44:42>> I wanted to leave a final message here,
1:44:44right? What worries me most isn’t the
1:44:48shout, you know, that Martin Luther
1:44:50King quote, it isn’t the shout of the
1:44:53dishonest, or the corrupt, or the
1:44:55violent, right? It’s the silence of
1:44:59the good.
1:45:00>> Exactly.
1:45:00>> Right? That is what worries me the most
1:45:02. So, I leave this message for the
1:45:04member. Do not fool yourself. Eh, don't
1:45:09let the image of that nice, friendly
1:45:13guy, who buys barbecue and does those
1:45:16eh eh eh cheap things to attract your
1:45:20attention, distance you from reality.
1:45:26See reality as it is, because only by
1:45:28facing reality will we make the right
1:45:30decisions, right? Choose your candidate
1:45:33, right? Safiel is a consistent project
1:45:36, it's not the only one possible, but
1:45:40it has unique characteristics, right?
1:45:44Eh, and in the election now, those who
1:45:46believe in the project, naturally,
1:45:48choose the candidate who supports the
1:45:50project, whoever they may be, right?
1:45:52Whoever they may be, right? We will
1:45:56continue working with all candidates
1:45:58who were invited and who show interest
1:46:00in improving the project with us, okay?
1:46:04We won't reach a different destination
1:46:06by walking the same path. Let's break
1:46:09away, let's seek an alternative to get
1:46:12out of this situation.
1:46:14>> Good one, Carlão. Thanks for that.
1:46:16Another show. It's the 18th "Safiel in
1:46:19the Field" that we are broadcasting.
1:46:22Thank you for accepting the invitation,
1:46:24you know, to participate and be here
1:46:26with us for another night.
1:46:28>> Thanks, Bonô. I want to send a hug to
1:46:31my friend Edu, eh, to the Safiel team
1:46:33as well who are watching us, for sure,
1:46:36and to everyone who watched us. I
1:46:39wanted to take the opportunity, Bono,
1:46:41to congratulate you on the video you
1:46:42made over in Japan.
1:46:43>> Man, cool, right? Did you like it? Did
1:46:45you watch it?
1:46:46>> Yeah, a lot. Yes. For the service you
1:46:49provide to all Corinthians fans. I saw
1:46:53your live stream yesterday, I know you
1:46:54are going to do an interview and a
1:46:55debate, right, with the candidates on
1:46:57Sunday.
1:46:58>> That's right.
1:46:59>> I think this is a very important moment
1:47:01. Along the lines of Edu. I really
1:47:03wanted to call the members' attention,
1:47:07eh, so that, eh, they follow this
1:47:10debate. I hope the debate will be an
1:47:14enlightening one, Bono, and that you eh
1:47:17conduct it with all the brilliance with
1:47:20which you have been conducting eh your
1:47:23channel and have already conducted
1:47:26other debates as well. I wanted to ask
1:47:30the candidates, eh, if I may, that they
1:47:34be very clear, very objective, and much
1:47:39less political at this moment, okay? I
1:47:45think Corinthians needs precise,
1:47:47realistic diagnoses. Eh, we need to
1:47:53stop self-admiring, start acknowledging
1:47:57our flaws which are not small, they are
1:48:00gigantic and have caused enormous
1:48:03damage. And I think that, since the
1:48:10room is full of quotes, I’ll say a
1:48:14famous one: "Know the truth and the
1:48:17truth shall set you free." Right? So,
1:48:22when Corinthians knows the truth, when
1:48:25it recognizes the truth, the truth will
1:48:27set us free, right? Today we are,
1:48:31unfortunately, held hostage by a system
1:48:34that has destroyed us. And I think
1:48:39it’s the truth, the courage to face
1:48:41the truth, that will be the little
1:48:43piece that unlocks everything we need
1:48:46to unlock. So, the member has a super
1:48:51important role to demand, to question
1:48:53the candidates, and to choose the one
1:48:56who is truly committed to the
1:48:58institution and not to a power project.
1:49:02>> Exactly. And taking this opportunity,
1:49:06since we mentioned the debate, I’d
1:49:08like to invite everyone to watch this
1:49:11Sunday, November 1st, at 8 PM, the
1:49:13first great debate between the
1:49:15presidential candidates of Esporte
1:49:17Clube Corinthians Paulista, and make it
1:49:20very clear that it is a completely
1:49:22non-partisan debate; it will be a very
1:49:25professional debate. We will have the
1:49:29opportunity to hear the candidates '
1:49:32proposals and how they imagine solving
1:49:34the club's problems. And I think it’s
1:49:37a unique event. We have never had this
1:49:39before. I ask the candidates—aside
1:49:43from Sérgio, who is still thinking
1:49:45about his participation—the other
1:49:47four have already confirmed, so I am
1:49:49absolutely certain it will be a
1:49:51high-level debate, okay? So, I invite
1:49:55everyone to be with us on Sunday at 8
1:49:58PM, alright, folks? Thank you, thank
1:50:02you Carlos, thank you Salúci, and
1:50:04thank you once again to the huge
1:50:06audience on the channels. God bless you
1:50:10all and go Corinthians.

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