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Russell Williams - The Confession - the fifth estate — Transcript

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0:00gloves you that's a little microphone
0:02tonight on the fifth the state an
0:04unprecedented moment in Canadian crime
0:06and Justice as it took place and is seen
0:09by people who know what happens in the
0:11mind of a killer oh
0:14no all right well again Russell I
0:16appreciate coming in an investigation
0:18like this I mean I'm sure you can
0:19appreciate it's been big news uh
0:21especially down Belleville way it
0:24started with the police interrogators
0:26version of small talk we're fast
0:29forwarding things that we might normally
0:31take our time with um and that's why
0:33we're here on a Sunday afternoon so
0:36again I appreciate it and I'm quite sure
0:38at that point it's in everybody's mind
0:41he's not walking out that door a free
0:43man that night for a while there was
0:46denial okay have you ever visited uh uh
0:50Marie France Como at her residence no
0:53okay all right um so you're quite
0:55positive there would be no reason why
0:56your DNA would be any of those three
0:58locations now what he's doing is trying
1:01to figure out an explanation to give
1:02this guy because he knows man I am
1:05screwed I am so screwed it would come
1:08down to the two men in the room the
1:10commanding officer and the detective
1:13your vehicle drove up the side of
1:15Jessica Lloyd's
1:17house your boots walked to the back of
1:21Jessica Lloyd's house on the evening of
1:23the 28th and 29th of
1:25January you want
1:28discretion we need to have some honesty
1:31okay because this is this is getting
1:33under control really fast
1:36Russell okay really really fast he was
1:39taught to be a commander he was taught
1:41to be a leader he was taught to segment
1:45take the emotion away put it there but
1:47Colonel Russell Williams was about to
1:49learn that he was no longer the one in
1:52charge
1:53Russell you know there's only one option
1:56what do you what do you what other
1:58option is there well the
2:00option well I don't think you want the
2:03cold blooded psychopath option he's
2:05looking at him he knows he's just
2:07dropped the first bomb this is the
2:10beginning of the
2:11end on this special commercial free
2:14edition of The Fifth Estate inside the
2:16interrogation room there's a huge search
2:19still underway and it'll
2:22continue it'll continue until her body's
2:28found that might even happened tonight
2:30for all I
2:33know we got you now Pony up buddy now's
2:37time to man up on this thing quit acting
2:39like a little girl and tell me what
2:44happened what are we going to
2:51do call me R please
2:57okay we going do rest
3:02[Music]
3:08good evening I'm Bob mccuan Welcome to
3:10The Fifth Estate the picture is not
3:12highdef the camera angles are a bit off
3:15the leading man sometimes wanders off
3:17screen but what takes place in the
3:20interrogation and confession is more
3:22gripping and real than anything ever
3:24seen on CSI or Law and Order when he
3:27walks into that room Colonel Russell
3:29Williams is commanding officer of CFB
3:31Trenton Canada's largest most important
3:33Air Base a top pilot who prides himself
3:36on disciplined and self- control 10
3:39hours later he's a confessed murderer
3:41and sexual predator how he goes from one
3:44to the other is a fascinating view of
3:46police tactics the power of persuasion
3:49and sheer evil we haven't seen anything
3:51like it and we think you likely haven't
3:56either the interrogation would take
3:58place here at police headquarters in
4:00Ottawa it was Sunday February 7th
4:042010 Russell Williams was spending the
4:07weekend at the new home in ottawa's West
4:09End that he and his wife had recently
4:10moved into in the early afternoon he got
4:14a phone call asking him to the police
4:16building to answer a few questions he
4:19reportedly said he'd be back for
4:21dinner we don't know what went through
4:23his mind as he drove
4:25downtown but there certainly was a lot
4:28for him to think about
4:33it had been 10 days earlier January 28th
4:36that a 27-year-old woman named Jessica
4:38Lloyd returned from an evening out to
4:41her house on Highway 37 a 20-minute
4:43drive from Russell Williams Cottage in
4:45tweet
4:46Ontario she sent a final text message to
4:49a friend before calling it a night
4:51according to her brother Andy it was
4:53said night night I believe it was it was
4:55just kind of saying that was it and
4:57assumed she was on her way to bed
4:59because it was 10:30 and she had to work
5:01at you know 8:00 in the morning and yeah
5:04so that was the last anybody heard from
5:05her was that text
5:10message a few hours later about 3:00
5:13a.m. two local men drove along that same
5:15stretch of highway
5:1737 they noticed an SUV parked in a field
5:21next to an isolated house they kept
5:24driving it would be a while before they
5:26understood exactly what they'd seen
5:31[Music]
5:34later that day Andy Lloyd got a phone
5:36call from his mother his sister Jessica
5:38had never arrived at work and he went
5:41right to her house that's what was so
5:43weird is because everything was there
5:46you know which why we couldn't figure
5:49out what had happened because all of her
5:51identification and I mean her cell phone
5:53and her purse and things people don't
5:56leave home without were
5:58there the whole town was looking for
6:01Jessica family friends members of the
6:04public police forces even search and
6:07rescue from CFB Trenton word spread
6:10across
6:11Ontario and that's when the man who'd
6:14seen the SUV noticed emergency vehicles
6:16around a house on Highway
6:1837 it was Jessica Lloyd's house the same
6:22one that was next to the field where the
6:24SUV had been parked that's when the men
6:27went to the police officers found tire
6:30tracks in the field and bootprints near
6:33the
6:35house the Ontario Provincial Police set
6:37up roadblocks checking the tires of cars
6:39on Highway 37 looking for a match on
6:43Thursday February 4th one of those they
6:45stopped was Colonel Russell Williams
6:47driving his
6:48SUV they checked his tires then let him
6:51go unbeknownst to Williams he was under
6:54police surveillance from then
6:57on at the same time as the opp was
7:00investigating The Disappearance of
7:02Jessica Lloyd they had three other
7:04unsolved cases in the same vicinity a
7:06murder and two sexual assaults all had
7:09possible links to Colonel Williams the
7:12assaults took place in his Tweed
7:13neighborhood the murder victim was Marie
7:15France KOMO a Corporal at CFB Trenton in
7:18fact a military flight attendant who'd
7:20once flown with him but it's likely that
7:22investigators never put it all together
7:25until they stopped Williams at that
7:26roadblock and matched his SUV's tires to
7:30the track found in the
7:32field it is just before 300 p.m. on
7:35Sunday February 7th when Russell
7:37Williams arrives at Ottawa Police
7:39Headquarters inside he's ushered into an
7:42interrogation room the opp has borrowed
7:44for the day it's sparsely furnished two
7:47chairs a desk nothing mounted on the
7:50walls but two digital
7:52cameras one pointed at the investigator
7:55detective Sergeant Jim
7:56Smith the other at Colonel Williams
8:00I assume you're going to be veteran us
8:02homicide interrogator Paul celino knows
8:05how it all
8:07works everything is controlled from the
8:09minute you bring him in that room okay
8:11the way where you're sitting where he's
8:12sitting you never want to put a desk
8:14between you and anybody okay never you
8:17never interview from across a desk you
8:19always want to get close you start out
8:21kind of far but as the interrogation
8:23goes on you move in closer because you
8:25want that physical you want that
8:26intimate touch with somebody I'm just
8:28going to move your gloves here that's a
8:29little mic just to make sure there's
8:30nice and clear um as you can see here
8:32everything in this room is video taped
8:34and audio taped check uh you're been
8:37interviewed by the police in a in a room
8:39like this before I have never been
8:40interviewed like this oh no okay no get
8:43this set up
8:44[Music]
8:47here gu the closest uh interview by NIS
8:52for top secret clearance oh yeah all
8:55right well again Russell I appreci but
8:57even mention of his top secret clearance
8:59have no effect today before it's over
9:02this interview will be the most
9:03important conversation Russell Williams
9:06will ever
9:08[Music]
9:14have it is about 300 p.m. on February
9:177th when Colonel Russell Williams enters
9:19the police interview room in
9:21Ottawa you're been interviewed by the
9:23police in a in a room like this before I
9:25have never been interviewed like this oh
9:27no okay whatever he's told himself about
9:30why he's here today he appears relaxed
9:32about the invitation to answer questions
9:35he clearly knows it's about The
9:36Disappearance of Jessica lyd you know
9:39obviously our approach to cases like
9:41this is that uh uh we don't give up on
9:43somebody being alive until we get
9:45evidence that they're not so um because
9:48of that we're treating uh Jessica's case
9:50as an emergent situation obviously the
9:53interviewer is detective Sergeant Jim
9:55Smith of the Ontario Provincial Police
9:57he's been preparing for this moment for
9:59days Sunday afternoon I have a simple
10:01rule when I talk to people it's I'm sure
10:03you're the same way I treat everybody
10:05with respect I I ask they do the same
10:06for me um so what we're going to do is
10:09we're going to start off by uh going
10:10through um what your rights are okay
10:13just like everybody else okay Mark
10:15Mendelson is a former Toronto homicide
10:17detective and the man who interrogated
10:19Carla
10:20hula the investigator comes from the
10:22behavioral sciences unit of the op he's
10:24a trained polygraph uh technician so
10:27he's obviously an excellent interviewer
10:28to begin with but they sat down with
10:31their body of evidence and with the
10:32psychiatrist from the behavioral
10:34sciences unit sort of developing a
10:36profile of what Williams is and what
10:39he's most likely to do when certain
10:41questions are put to him so that if he
10:43answers a they follow this path if he
10:45answers B he'll follow this path so
10:48there's no surprises they it was all
10:50laid out long before he walked in that
10:52room for you do so Smith Reminds
10:54Williams he's not under arrest and is
10:57free to go at any time there's anything
10:59that comes up in our interview today
11:01Russell that uh that you feel you want
11:03to talk to a lawyer about um you just uh
11:06you just let me know okay now he could
11:09have called him Colonel Williams he
11:10could have called him sir and you and
11:13you'll notice during the course of the
11:14interview he never calls him Colonel
11:16because what that does and I would have
11:19done and I think any other homicide
11:20would have done the same thing is it it
11:22it puts him on a on a different level on
11:23a different Plateau he's got to be
11:25Russell from Tweed he's got to be the
11:28guy that lives in Tweed and you don't
11:30give him that respect and don't give him
11:31that power of being called
11:34Colonel Williams jokes that the only
11:37kind of lawyer he needs is for Real
11:39Estate transactions do you have your own
11:42lawyer I have a realy lawyer but I don't
11:45have a lawyer once Smith has Williams in
11:48the right mindset the conversation
11:50returns to Jessica Lloyd I want to
11:52explain to you exactly what's going on
11:54here okay Jessica uh Lloyd is um is one
11:59of four cases that we're currently
12:01investigating okay but Williams must
12:04know the questions will also touch on
12:06other recent crimes around his Lakefront
12:08Cottage on Cozy Cove Lane in Tweed
12:11Ontario because he knows what the police
12:14don't that beginning in 2007 when he was
12:17at the cottage usually alone a multitude
12:20of crimes would follow dozens of bizarre
12:23break-ins women's lingerie and underwear
12:25stolen almost all in his neighborhood
12:28and on his streets including two sexual
12:31assaults these first two attacks
12:33happened uh not that far from my place
12:35in two well the second one did yeah we
12:38didn't even know the first one had
12:39happened but uh I understand that was
12:41reasonably close as well but the second
12:43one was uh was very
12:45close notice he used the pronoun we
12:48referring to his marriage and he reminds
12:50Smith he's cooperated with police so
12:53certainly at the time youp did a uh my
12:56door to door yeah and uh with a couple
12:59of days probably the same night so I
13:00spoke with a couple guys then okay um
13:03yeah and I'm I'm aware of that you know
13:05you've kind of almost hit the nail on
13:06the head about some of our issues that
13:08kind of uh make us want to talk to to
13:10Russell Williams okay um because
13:13essentially uh there's a a a connection
13:16um between you and uh and all four of
13:19those cases would you agree it's your
13:23gra and I guess I drive past yes I would
13:26have to say there's a a connection here
13:29it seems unlikely that Russell Williams
13:31knew much if anything about the
13:33softspoken man sitting opposite him
13:36detective Sergeant Jim Smith is a
13:37veteran in the OPP's Behavioral Sciences
13:40unit which applies such techniques as
13:42criminal profiling and forensic
13:44psychiatry to Crime investigation it was
13:47Smith acting on a hunch who found the
13:49body of the missing 8-year-old Tory
13:51Stafford in Woodstock Ontario a year ago
13:54there are few better at interrogation as
13:57Colonel Williams was about to find
14:00out having set the scene with broad
14:03Strokes Smith now gets to specifics like
14:06where Williams was the day Jessica Lloyd
14:08never made it to work Friday on the day
14:10I was at home most of the time most of
14:12the day I had a start of a stomach flu
14:14okay in Ottawa or a tweet tweet in tweet
14:18okay yeah discussion turns to Corporal
14:21Marie frano found murdered in her home 3
14:24months
14:25before can't remember what what day of
14:27the week we're talking about it but uh
14:29obviously one of your people gets killed
14:30it gets your attentions absolutely I'm
14:33very much that coming in and how did you
14:36know Marie France com I'd only met her
14:39once um she was on a crew I was on just
14:43after I got to the
14:45base in fact the 38-year-old Kom was an
14:48adventuresome military flight attendant
14:50at Trenton she had recently been a
14:52member of the crew flying Prime Minister
14:54Steven Harper on a state visit to the
14:56Far East her friend alamp plant spoke
14:59with her when she got back she flew from
15:02Trenton over the Pacific to go to Japan
15:06and from there when they came back uh
15:08they flew over the Atlantic so she went
15:11around the
15:12world I don't know many people who did
15:14that so I
15:15was I was curious and happy for her but
15:19because her dream was coming
15:22true 3 Days Later Mari France Como's
15:25body was discovered inside her house in
15:27Brighton Ontario the cause of death was
15:31asphixiation Colonel Williams tells
15:33detective Smith he learned about it from
15:36the military police now you got that
15:38email notifying that something had
15:40happened it's unclear what thoughts go
15:43through Williams mind but he seems to be
15:45grasping for something to say uh do you
15:48have uh any kind of a a clear
15:50recollection as to how your schedule was
15:52going that
15:55week well I can't remember what again
15:58what day that uh the message came in
16:01just a
16:02second
16:09um no I can't remember what day day of
16:12the week but I
16:13um I much think there was a whole bunch
16:16of activity spun up as a result
16:21obviously I can't remember the day of
16:23the week detective Sergeant Smith takes
16:26the bungled answer as an opportunity to
16:28set out in another Direction challenging
16:31Williams to prove he's innocent so if we
16:33were to uh do a similar uh investigation
16:36in your background is there is there
16:38anything you can think of that anybody
16:39may have misinterpreted or anything uh
16:41in your history that somebody might say
16:44Russell Williams uh absolutely did this
16:47no okay be very boring what's that it'll
16:50be very boring all right cuz essentially
16:54that's what I'm looking at is it uh
16:57um you see like a very intelligent
16:59person and I think you can see how um a
17:03surprise like that would U certainly
17:05some alarm BS investigation right okay
17:08Smith now gets to the point he needs
17:10more than words from Williams what would
17:13you be willing to give me today to help
17:15me um move past you in this
17:19investigation what uh what do you need
17:22well um would you be willing to supply
17:25things like fingerprints blood samples
17:27things like that okay
17:29Watch What Happens Next At The Mention
17:32Of Footwear Footwear Impressions
17:34Williams looks at his feet he's wearing
17:36boots I think that's what we're going to
17:38we're going to ask you to do all right
17:40detective Smith leaves the room to find
17:42the necessary
17:44Personnel it's here that Russell
17:46Williams faces a crucial juncture he can
17:49give Smith what he wants and risk the
17:50consequences or he can change his mind
17:53and ask for a lawyer blame it on hubris
17:56or being a good soldier but Williams
17:58doesn't flinch
17:59he provides his fingerprints blood and
18:01DNA and he lets them take prints of the
18:04boots he's wearing afterwards the
18:06colonel is apprehensive about who might
18:09learn about
18:11it can I assume you're going to be
18:14discreet it's possible yeah cuz
18:18uh you know this would have a very
18:20significant impact on the base if they
18:23thought you thought I did this well uh
18:26bottom line wrestle that's one of the
18:27reasons we're here in a sun afternoon
18:30see how his arms are folded up now this
18:32tells the
18:33interrogator he's in trouble and he's
18:35he's nervous cuz when you fold your arms
18:37up you're closing yourself up
18:38psychologically okay and look at he's
18:40looking down the whole time he's not
18:42making great eye contact and and the
18:45interrogator hit some with a great line
18:47in there he goes well that's why we're
18:48here on a Sunday because we want it to
18:50be discreet that's ridiculous okay cuz
18:53they don't care about being discreet at
18:54this point they they care about getting
18:56them but that's a great comeback if
18:57you're an interrogator right now you're
18:59thinking this is a guilty guy this guy
19:01is guilty and I'm going to get him uh
19:05that's certainly one of the things that
19:06went into our decision to to give you a
19:08call at home to and see if we could deal
19:09with this today okay so okay
19:17um cuz it's tough to undo the rumor mill
19:19once it gets
19:21started it appears that even after
19:23giving police all that evidence he still
19:25thinks he might somehow be able to walk
19:27away reputation
19:30intact but the commanding officer is not
19:33the one in charge here and his body
19:35language appears to show that he knows
19:37it that DNA is going to be uh
19:39significant in our investigation both uh
19:42you know quite possibly to help you
19:44quite possibly to help us I don't know
19:46yet I don't know what the result is yet
19:48um notice the quick smile at mention of
19:50DNA left behind at his crime scene when
19:54Smith asks about anything he may not
19:55want his wife to know he shifts in his
19:58seat frequently size is there any
20:01contact that you may have had with any
20:03of those four women um that you may not
20:07want your wife to be aware of anything
20:09like that that we should know about to
20:11try and uh explain why if if your DNA is
20:15found it would help us understand why it
20:17may be there absolutely
20:19not methodically Smith goes over it all
20:22one more time cementing Williams
20:24categorical denial have you ever visited
20:28uh um Marie France comoo at her
20:30residence no okay all right um so you're
20:33quite positive there would be no reason
20:34why your DNA would be any of those three
20:36locations okay um did you know Jessica
20:40Lloyd even in passing for any reason no
20:43I didn't hear hear her name till it was
20:45on the
20:47news what brought Colonel Russell
20:49Williams to the attention of the place
20:50in the first place was the SUV spotted
20:53from Highway 37 the night Jessica Lloyd
20:56disappeared and the tire tracks police
20:59discovered in the
21:01field when they stopped Williams in his
21:04SUV the tires were a
21:06match now detective Smith reveals to
21:09Williams that he knows it kind of tires
21:12do you have on your
21:16Pathfinder I think um I think they're
21:20Toyo do you know the brand name or sorry
21:22the
21:23think um I don't sorry the make is Toyo
21:28I don't know the model
21:32okay see read this off to see if it
21:35rings a
21:39bell the colonel sees it coming ever
21:42heard of uh does Toyo Open Country
21:46HTS sounds make any sense okay Smith
21:50gets Williams to deny he had ever parked
21:53the SUV with the Toyo Tires in the field
21:55adjacent to Jessica Lloyd's house
21:59do you have any recollection at all of
22:01being off that road no was not off the
22:03road no okay all right bad move okay
22:08what he should have said was impossible
22:10couldn't have happened but see you could
22:13see what's happening here he's he's got
22:15his arms folded and he's nauy his body
22:17language is saying yes I was there
22:21what's coming out of his mouth isn't
22:22that convincing as well because he's so
22:25he is so tore up inside right now
22:28because he's thinking where did I drive
22:30what did I do that night where was I was
22:33I North he's trying to think five steps
22:35ahead of this guy it's just not going to
22:37happen but his whole body is indicating
22:39man am I in trouble I have a serious
22:42problem now in his firm but quiet way
22:45Jim Smith is about to make the
22:47transition from good cop to bad I told
22:50you when I came in here uh that I'm
22:51going to treat you with respect and I've
22:53asked you to do the same for me
22:56um we talked about the whole idea of how
22:59we've uh approached you here okay uh the
23:03trying to be as just greed as possible
23:05okay but the problem is Russell is every
23:08time I walk out of this room there's
23:10another issue that comes up okay and
23:12it's not issues that point away from you
23:14it's issues that point at you okay and I
23:16want I want you to see what I mean all
23:21right this is the Footwear
23:26impression of the person who
23:29approached the rear of Jessica Lloyd's
23:32house on the evening of the 28th and
23:3529th of January okay detective Smith now
23:39knows as the colonel does too that the
23:41prints belong to boots owned by Russell
23:46Williams this is a photo copy of the
23:50boot that uh you took off your foot yeah
23:53just a little while ago okay now they're
23:56the boots Williams wore on January
23:59the very same boots he put on to come to
24:01Ottawa Police Headquarters
24:03today these are
24:09identical okay your vehicle drove up the
24:14side of Jessica Lloyd's
24:15house your boots walked to the back of
24:19Jessica Lloyd's house on the evening of
24:22the 28th and 29th of
24:24January okay you want
24:27discretion we need just have some
24:29honesty okay because this is this is
24:32getting under control really fast
24:35Russell okay really really
24:40[Music]
24:44fast Paul Cino is a former US homicide
24:48investigator and interrogation expert
24:51this is what we call a confrontation and
24:53what's the colonel doing dur this he's
24:54nodding he's going up his the head's
24:56nodding up and down that's an
24:58involuntary reaction we call but that's
25:01indicator of what's going on internally
25:03and what he's nodding to is holy [ __ ]
25:07it's my boot they got my bootprint he's
25:09think God out how dumb am I to wear the
25:11same boots to the police station
25:14today this is getting Beyond My
25:18Control right I came in here a few hours
25:23ago and I called you the way I called
25:25you today because I wanted to give you
25:26the benefit out mhm but you and I both
25:29know you were at Jessica Lloyd's house
25:33and I need to know
25:35why William seems Frozen unwilling or
25:38unable to
25:41[Music]
25:45speak he grabs the paperwork and he's
25:47got it right now what he's doing is
25:49trying to figure out an explanation to
25:51give this guy because he knows man I am
25:54screwed I am so screwed he's buying time
25:57and we and we call by in time now what
25:59the detective does though is is great
26:02because a lot of detectives they'll keep
26:04talking but silence is great okay
26:07because now it becomes very
26:10uncomfortable Smith tells Williams his
26:12window for explanation is about to slam
26:15shut
26:17Russell you know there's only one option
26:20what do you what do you what other
26:21option is there what's the
26:24option well I don't think you want the
26:27cold blooded psychopath
26:32option I might be
26:36wrong because don't get me wrong I've
26:38met guys who actually kind of enjoyed
26:40the notoriety got off on
26:43it got off on having that
26:46label Bernardo being one of them I don't
26:49see that in you if I saw that in you I
26:52wouldn't be back in here talking to you
26:53quite frankly
27:01but maybe I'm wrong maybe you got me
27:03fooled I don't
27:09know this is
27:13over and it can have
27:16a a bad
27:18ending where Jessica's parents
27:22continue to wonder where her daughter's
27:24lying
27:31and I don't know I mean obviously
27:33there's a huge search still underway and
27:35it'll
27:37continue it'll continue until her body's
27:43found that might even happen tonight for
27:45all I
27:49know once that
27:52happens then I don't know what other
27:54card you would have to play
28:04what are we going to
28:05do Smith not only wants Williams to
28:08confess but perhaps even more pressing
28:10to direct them to the body of Jessica
28:13Lloyd the silence continues for half a
28:18minute then a glimmer of
28:22hope
28:25R what are we going to do
28:34only me rest please okay
29:11you and I both know for three and a half
29:13hours detective Sergeant Jim Smith has
29:15maneuvered Russell Williams into one
29:17very tight corner you and I both know
29:20that the unknown offender male
29:24Den on Marie France combo's body
29:28is going to be matched to you quite
29:31possibly before the evening's
29:32over it's late Sunday afternoon and
29:36something dramatic is happening your
29:38boots locked to the back of Jessica
29:41Lloyd's
29:42house Mark mendleson is a former Toronto
29:45homicide detective now a private
29:48investigator what a moment oh yeah great
29:53well done surgical in the way he did it
29:56if you want to talk yourself out of the
29:58tire tracks go ahead talk yourself out
30:01of the boot I dare you we going to do
30:03Blame It On The Gardener who stole my
30:06truck and stole my boots it's not going
30:07to happen and you can see there's no
30:09response other than he's he's actually
30:11acknowledging yeah you're right it is
30:13identical there's no way
30:16out
30:17Russell listen to me for a second okay
30:21and that evidence comes in when that DNA
30:23match when that phone rings and somebody
30:25knocks on this door
30:29your credibility is gone okay because
30:32this is how credibility works all right
30:33and I know you're an intelligent person
30:35and you probably don't need to hear this
30:36explanation but I also know your mind's
30:38racing right now okay cuz I've sat
30:40across a lot of people in your position
30:42over the years okay the bottom line is
30:45is that as soon as we get that that
30:48piece of evidence that solidifies it DNA
30:51okay Smith keeps hammering home the
30:54message if Williams wants any say
30:57whatsoever he's got to show his hand
31:06now
31:10R what are we going to
31:13do what are we going to do r
31:34and then it happens a tiny crack in the
31:37Colonel's
31:40armor is Jessica somewhere we can find
31:42her
31:44easily like is this something where I
31:46can make a call and tell somebody to go
31:47to a location and they're going to find
31:49her or is this something where we have
31:50to go and and
31:53uh take a walk
32:13the awful reality his victims had known
32:16is now sinking in for Russell Williams
32:19himself which direction are we heading
32:21in
32:22here
32:24Russ maybe maybe this would help can you
32:27tell me what the issue is you're
32:29struggling
32:34with we have compressed Williams many
32:37pauses some almost a minute
32:42long what TS you're struggling with
32:59it's hard to believe this is
33:04not why is
33:15that why is it hard to believe
33:34it's just it's just hard to believe by
33:36now detective Smith must sense he's
33:38getting close R is there anything you
33:41want from
33:43me is there anything you want me to
33:47explain is there something missing that
33:49you're struggling with that I can shed
33:51some light on for
33:53you and finally his determination pays
33:56off
34:00I'm struggling with how upset my life is
34:03right now R what are you looking
34:14for I'm concerned that they're tearing
34:17apart my wife's brand new house so am
34:22I but if nobody tells
34:24them what's there what's not they don't
34:28have any
34:30choice watch how Jim Smith now is in
34:32lock step with Williams each mirroring
34:35the other's
34:40gestures so what am I do on
34:44r i put my best foot forward here for
34:47you
34:53bud I really have I don't I don't know
34:56what else to do to to
34:58make you understand the impact of what's
35:00Happening
35:03Here do we
35:07talk I want to
35:11um minimize the impact on my wife so do
35:19I so do we do that well we start by
35:24telling the
35:25truth what follows is another half
35:28minute of
35:31Silence okay okay then a most remarkable
35:35moment where is
35:40she 4 hours 40 minutes and 10 seconds
35:44after they sat down get a
35:47map um is she close to where she lives
35:50I've got maps of that general
35:54area getting Williams to view a map of
35:57the location of Lloyd's body is the
35:59Turning Point says interrogation expert
36:01Paul
36:03celino every detective ass signed this
36:05case is watching this thing on tape or
36:07live feed and or I don't see any mirrors
36:10in there but there there's a camera in
36:12there clearly so they're watching it and
36:15you want to know what they're doing yes
36:17we got him we got his ass yes yes yes go
36:19get I mean that's what's going on
36:21outside that room but right now there's
36:23a big celebration going on because they
36:25know they own this guy right now as we
36:27said before Canadians have never seen
36:29anything like it a police investigator
36:32at the peak of his powers interrogating
36:34someone so accomplished in their career
36:36let alone a top ranking military man
36:39especially someone responsible for a
36:41criminal trail of such willful
36:43cruelty so far it's been almost 5 hours
36:46of quiet intense intellectual combat
36:50there may images on Forensic
36:52psychiatrist Duncan Scott of Queens
36:54University has met with Russell Williams
36:56weekly since his
36:58arrest you have watching him on on tape
37:01in the
37:03confession once he's said get the map
37:07I'll show you where Jessica Lloyd is is
37:10uh
37:11dumped he becomes very calm it seems and
37:14he's got an almost matter OFA way of
37:17describing these terrible things just as
37:20if he would have to get up in front of
37:22tell a whole bunch of people about the
37:24people that have just died under his uh
37:27under his his command and how he would
37:30have to write a letter and how he would
37:31go and talk to the individuals and keep
37:34his emotions at pay that was something
37:37that he had learned to do quite well for
37:39detective Smith the priority now is find
37:42Jessica lyd which town is she near why
37:45don't we start
37:51there I'm not sure if you give me a map
37:54of U that covers calar down to the
38:00highway and over to
38:03Tweed and sou I'll show you let me see
38:07what I got here I might have
38:09something is she inside
38:15outside with the search for Jessica
38:17ongoing Smith is equipped with maps of
38:20the area around
38:21Tweed where am I going on the on here to
38:24get to her
38:27in this BL here okay so you're pointing
38:31to a detailed map of that area and I'll
38:33show you where she is okay she close to
38:35a road yep all
38:38right um is it something where is she is
38:42she buried or is she somewhere where if
38:44you walk there you would you would
38:46fairly easily see her it's here how
38:48long's she been there
38:51[Applause]
38:54for little over week
38:57was it fairly quick from the
38:59time she
39:01left Friday
39:04night Friday night y so where was she
39:07between Thursday night and Friday night
39:09in tweet with you
39:12y how long was she alive
39:20for almost 24 hours not
39:23quite
39:25okay r
39:28you're doing the right thing
39:31here okay well again my interest is in
39:36uh making my my wife's life a little
39:39easier he knows to this guy other than
39:43his military career his wife is
39:44everything what he's thinking I got 600
39:46pairs of people's underwear in my house
39:48and my wife is going to be out of her
39:51mind how do I want the TVs out in front
39:54of her house for the next two years do I
39:56want them destroy and ripping up the
39:58house what can I do to make this better
40:01it's an horrific bargain belated
40:04consideration for his wife in exchange
40:07for information about where he dumped
40:09the body of a young woman he brutalized
40:11and
40:13killed almost matter of factly he then
40:16reveals where police can find the
40:17digital memory cards on which he keeps
40:20the photographs he takes of his victims
40:22while he tortures sexually assaults and
40:24kills them
40:28and whose images are on those
40:30cards uh well I've erased them that I
40:35expect uh he'll be able to draw images
40:38of uh Jessica and
40:41I what about
40:50Marie there may be images on there as
40:53well okay and the two women from
40:55September
40:58here okay detective Smith comes back to
41:01the question of where to find Jessica
41:04William says she's exactly 7 km from a
41:07certain
41:08intersection how far off the road is she
41:1140 ft she if she covered with
41:16anything she's wrapped up she's on the
41:21surface agree something other cover okay
41:27bar the obvious question I'm going to
41:29have for you
41:32is when they go there and they'll be
41:34there shortly they're going to find her
41:37goad early the next morning February 8th
41:41police recovered Jessica Lloyd 7 km from
41:44the intersection exactly where Russell
41:47Williams said she would
41:48be for detective Jim Smith the hard part
41:51is over but now the really hard part
41:55Begins the terrible litany of all that
41:58Williams has done I put tape on her
42:01mouth and then I put tape on her nose
42:06and held it there so she couldn't
42:16[Music]
42:18breathe it is Sunday evening February
42:217th in the interview room at Ottawa
42:24Police Headquarters the tension Has
42:26Broken Russell Williams now ready to
42:30confess what you're about to hear is
42:32sexual violent and could very well be
42:38disturbing it's uh pretty wide open now
42:40right yeah what do you want to know well
42:43do you want to work forwards or
42:47backwards doesn't matter why don't we
42:50start with
42:53Jess how does that start for you
42:58it happened 10 days earlier whenever
43:00Colonel Williams went from CFB Trenton
43:02to his Cottage in Tweed he drove right
43:05by the house where Jessica Lloyd lived
43:08it recently caught sight of her working
43:10out as he passed
43:14by
43:16um I saw her in her house on her
43:22trima W is
43:27then I noticed she wasn't
43:30um there
43:34Thursday so I got into the house look
43:41around then
43:44um and they
43:46left notice she'd come
43:51home so I went back
43:55in through the the back patio
43:59door while she was
44:17sleeping so I woke her up
44:31didn't um didn't hit her she only hit
44:34her
44:35once Friday
44:39night while he assaulted Lloyd his SUV
44:42sat in the field next to her house his
44:45biggest
44:46mistake afterwards he drove her to his
44:48Cottage in Tweed to continue the
44:53attack well so I raped her in uh in her
45:00house and then I took her to the car and
45:03took her to
45:16tweet and
45:21um spent the day in tweet
45:30and then I hit her um as we were walking
45:34she thought we were
45:39leaving hit her on the back of the
45:43head William says the flashlight with
45:46which he hit her did more damage than he
45:51expected well I was surprised that uh
45:54her her skull gave way
45:58she was there and immediately
46:01unconscious and I strangle
46:04her William says while Jessica Lloyd was
46:07unconscious he strangled her with a rope
46:10and left her body in his garage while he
46:12drove to Trenton then to Ottawa for a
46:14weekend with his wife he returned to the
46:16cottage on Tuesday and took Lloyd to the
46:18spot where she would be found the
46:19following week again his tone in
46:22describing a beautiful young woman in
46:24her final moments is stunningly matter
46:26of fact
46:30fact it's a similar story when he
46:32recounts the last night of Marie France
46:34komo's life at her home in Brighton
46:38Ontario she was under his command at CFB
46:41Trenton and apparently had caught
46:42William's
46:44eye her house was 50 km in the wrong
46:47direction from his Cottage at Tweed but
46:50he visited before when she was gone then
46:53came back entering through a basement
46:55window
47:00lights
47:04R so when she spotted me I
47:08U had the same
47:11flashlight I
47:17subduer tigh her up upstairs
47:21[Music]
47:29and uh strangled
47:33her later in the
47:37morning upstairs Williams also raped and
47:40photographed her though he was com's
47:43commanding officer his head and face
47:44were covered and she didn't recognize
47:47him he decided to kill her
47:50anyway did you take anything out of uh
47:54Marie Francis house or Jessica Lloyd's
47:56house
47:58uh yeah some of their
48:01underwear okay that's
48:04all detective Jim Smith seems surprised
48:07to learn how much of their underwear
48:09Williams
48:11took
48:15um probably 60 pieces or something total
48:18all
48:19women's yeah 60 pieces of
48:23theirs of who's of Jess and
48:28uh M
48:32FL so you took 60 pieces from between
48:35the two of them yeah
48:39okay next the detective moves on to the
48:42two sexual assaults in Williams
48:43neighborhood in
48:46Tweed one victim lived just a few doors
48:48away from his Cottage as she's described
48:51it she was asleep at home when she was
48:53surprised by an intruder he blindfolded
48:56her tied her up cut off her clothes
48:59choked beat sexually assaulted and
49:02photographed her for 2 and 1/2
49:04hours Williams recounts it somewhat
49:07differently I did have the
49:10flashlight that time I hit over the
49:13flashl and thinking it would knock her
49:16out
49:17didn't
49:19so subdued her with my
49:23weight took off her clothes took some
49:26pictures and
49:28left he told much the same story about
49:31the other sexual
49:33assault like almost everyone else
49:36detective Smith searches for Williams
49:39motivation why do you think these things
49:41happen
49:58have you spent much time thinking about
49:59that about why
50:03yeah
50:08yeah but I don't have any
50:15answers and I'm pretty sure the answers
50:17don't
50:18matter well let me let me ask you this
50:21did you like or dislike these
50:24women I didn't know anything
50:29that may be as close to truth as we can
50:31get that he had no feelings at all for
50:34the women he raped and murdered even
50:36Jessica Lloyd whom he held captive for
50:39the last day of her
50:42life can you tell me why you killed her
50:45rest do you know why you killed her well
50:49I think I killed her because I knew that
50:51uh
51:01her story would be
51:08recognized her story will be recognized
51:10how do you
51:12mean well cuz she knew I was taking
51:16pictures he says he worried Lloyd's case
51:18would be tied to the two assaults in
51:20tweet well Williams also took
51:23photographs as for Corporal Marie frano
51:26he rationalized he had to kill her
51:29because she was stationed at CFB
51:33Trenton well because
51:41um I was pretty sure that
51:45uh you know she was serving military
51:48right
51:50mhm it would have been
51:52uh it would have been difficult for inv
51:56investigators to
51:58ignore that
52:00connection for Marie Fran KOMO perhaps
52:02the ultimate absen is that after
52:04everything else when she took her last
52:06breath Williams recorded it on
52:09video as for Jessica Lloyd Williams
52:12bought her cooperation by promising if
52:14she did what he said she would get her
52:17Freedom oh no she just didn't put up too
52:19much of a fuss okay did she try and
52:21negotiate with you at all or
52:26what did she say well I told her that I
52:29would uh let her go later
52:34on but after humiliating and raping her
52:38and recording it on video Williams
52:41murdered her
52:43too and how did you know she was
52:47dead she
52:53um well her body stopped moving
53:03it is after midnight now Monday February
53:068th when the door of interrogation room
53:08216 closes behind Russell Williams for
53:11the last
53:13time in a few hours police would locate
53:15the body of Jessica Lloyd after that
53:18they would make their shocking
53:19announcement arrested Russell Williams
53:2346 of Tweed for first-degree murder he a
53:26lousy lousy lousy at at at murdering
53:30people and and setting itself up I think
53:32it's this is
53:34horrible forensic psychiatrist Duncan
53:36Scott of Queens University consults with
53:39the Detention Facility where Williams
53:41was held he's met with him since his
53:43arrest and he's not surprised the
53:45addiction to sex and murder LED so far
53:47so
53:49fast it's spinning out of control and
53:53that's what I'm trying to say about
53:54being messy and what he was doing
53:58um he he wasn't really uh planning it
54:03was just going on it was if it happened
54:05in front of them it was kind of meant to
54:08be and the urges were so overwhelming
54:12and the rush knowing what he's going to
54:13be getting from that was again so
54:16overwhelming for him that thirst
54:20unquenchable for him Dr Scott says as a
54:23murderer Williams is unique
54:26Academia is out the window at this time
54:29there's no sample group of these types
54:31of individuals there's no FBI huge base
54:35rate that we can sample and find out
54:38whether where this goes back to or
54:40whether there's something in vitro here
54:42or in utro and and something happened
54:45during his upbringing or some horrible
54:47trauma that occurred to him that we
54:49aren't going to be finding that but he
54:51says he does know one thing that if
54:53Williams hadn't been stopped he wouldn't
54:55have stopped himself
54:57after watching the confession Russell
54:59Williams longtime and loyal friend Jeff
55:01farquar is now also convinced of
55:04that it's just shocking is not a word
55:08that even comes close um he
55:11is I've had a tough time understanding
55:14how he might be portrayed as a serial
55:16killer and a sexual predator but now I
55:19realize that he's the worst of the bunch
55:22and to try and understand that to try
55:25and put that in context with Russ who
55:28I've known for close to 30 years just as
55:30I said before it doesn't add up and not
55:33only does it not add up
55:35but he's a bigger monster than anybody
55:38I've heard or read about and it's uh
55:41like I say shocking doesn't even begin
55:42to cover it um it's
55:45disgusting I I don't know what to say
55:48you know honestly I'm I'm really at a
55:49loss for words and that's what scares me
55:52so much is that uh my God he really is
55:56maybe a a
55:57psychopath Chief op investigator Chris
56:01Nicholas it was an excellent piece of
56:03police work on behalf of Jim Smith who
56:06conducted this interview one of the best
56:07interviews I've ever seen uh and it's uh
56:12it's a smart man being outsmarted by a
56:14smarter
56:16man it may be even better than that
56:19according to us interrogation expert
56:21Paul
56:23celino because let me tell you what's
56:25going to happen this tape will be played
56:27in every interrogation course in the
56:29world english- speaking one and probably
56:32other ones as how to do it this guy is
56:34doing it this is classic before it ends
56:38one of detective Jim Smith's final
56:40questions to Russell Williams reveals
56:42exactly what was at stake if this didn't
56:45come to the point it's at right
56:47now if for whatever reason you didn't
56:49end up on our on our radar so to speak
56:53uh do you think it would have happened
56:54again
57:03I was hoping not that I can't answer the
57:05question

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