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Russell Williams interrogation - BEST VERSION on YouTube - 16x9 w/improved audio — Transcript

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0:03I was speaking with Russ as well
0:08oh yeah security number on head yeah now
0:12they were a zoom some pretty thorough
0:13interviews that nice yeah absolutely
0:17she's gonna Glen say that's a little
0:18microphone make sure there's nice and
0:20clear as you can see here everything in
0:22this from video tape and audio taped
0:23check you're being interviewed by the
0:27police and on in a room like this before
0:29oh no okay secret clearance oh yeah all
0:45right oh yeah muscle I appreciate come
0:46in an investigation like this I mean I'm
0:48sure you can appreciate it's been big
0:49news is actually done belleville way and
0:53you know obviously our approach to cases
0:55like this is that we don't give up on
0:58somebody being alive until you get
1:01evidence that they're not so because of
1:03that we're treating Jessica's case as an
1:06emergent situation obviously so we're
1:09fast-forwarding things that we might
1:11normally take our time with mm-hmm
1:13I mean that's why we're here on a Sunday
1:15afternoon so again I appreciate it we're
1:19going to do a pretty thorough interview
1:20today okay the reason for that is
1:23because the last thing we want is to be
1:26calling people back again and again and
1:27again okay so what we're gonna do is
1:29we're going to go over a number of
1:30things and I'm gonna explain with all
1:32those are to get okay I'm a big coffee I
1:36don't know if you're a coffee guy round
1:38eyes are never any us so no I see that
1:41all right go ahead
1:42they're definitely uh they black yeah
1:44they're just black with with sugar
1:48[Music]
1:50Sergi what's a napkin say if you want to
1:55toss it away alright and again like I
1:59said this interview is going to be very
2:00thorough but again I have a simple rule
2:04when I talk to people it's I'm sure
2:06you're the same way I treat everybody
2:07with respect I don't know why ask you're
2:09the same for me
2:10so what we're going to do is we're going
2:11to start off by going through what your
2:14rights are okay just like everybody else
2:16okay they've ever been read your rights
2:19before no yeah I'm sure you've seen on
2:21TV a whole bunch of times but I do see
2:22the American version so I'll go with you
2:24briefly okay
2:26basically in Canada as you know I'm sure
2:28is we all have our rights guaranteed
2:30under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms
2:31okay
2:32now Russell just to avoid any confusion
2:34because people do get confused when
2:37they're talked to by the police is that
2:38you're obviously under arrest here today
2:41okay any time you feel you want to leave
2:43here you feel free to do so the doors
2:45not locked reso walk you down to lobby
2:46anytime you want okay if there's
2:50anything that comes up and our interview
2:51today Russell that that you feel you
2:53want to talk to a lawyer boat you just
2:56you just let me know right and the
2:59reason for that is I want to explain to
3:00you exactly what's going on here okay
3:03Jessica Lloyd is is one of four cases
3:08that we're currently investigating okay
3:11and essentially what's happened is over
3:13the past about four or five months there
3:19have been four occurrences that like I
3:21said that we're looking into two of
3:23those occurrences occurred in September
3:24of 2009 and very briefly they were up in
3:28the tweed area they involved somebody
3:31entering two different women's houses in
3:34the evening hours and committing sexual
3:37acts okay
3:38in November of 2009 young lady by the
3:43name of refrence como
3:45yeah was found murdered in her home and
3:49right and we believe that there was a
3:52sexual component to that crime as well
3:54and then most recently we have Jessica
3:57Lloyd's disappearance okay
3:59so essentially when you look at those
4:01kind of crimes we're looking at a number
4:03of different potential criminal charges
4:05right we're looking at issues all the
4:07way from the most serious one which is
4:09first-degree murder kidnapping sexual
4:12assault break-and-enter with intent to
4:15commit sexual assault forcible
4:17confinement okay and so what I want to
4:20make sure you understand and this is
4:21what we doing with everybody been
4:22talking to is it clearly when we find
4:25out who's responsible for one or all of
4:26those crimes they could be charged with
4:29one or all of those offenses okay
4:31whether it's you or whether there's
4:32anybody else and that's why it's
4:34important that we make sure that people
4:36understand what they have to do and what
4:38they don't have to do when they're
4:38talking to us okay so as I said before
4:41any point today you feel the need you
4:43want to speak to a lawyer you let me
4:45know and we can take you to a room where
4:47you can do that in private okay do you
4:50have your own lawyer a Realty lawyer
4:53okay if at any point you want to make
4:58that call and you don't know who to call
4:59we have a phone list of lawyers that are
5:02available to give you advice free of
5:04charge right over the phone okay so
5:06again if at any point say you want to
5:07take advantage of that you just let me
5:08know is there any reason you want a call
5:11right now okay couple oh they're fairly
5:14simple and straightforward the things
5:16that you probably understand but again
5:18we go over them to make sure everybody's
5:19clear is that you don't have to speak to
5:22me today okay and the reason for that is
5:25because the law considers me to be what
5:26we refer to as a personal Authority okay
5:28probably similar to what you may be
5:30considered to be on the base and because
5:33of that I can be compelled to appear
5:34before any judge in the country
5:36basically to account for what takes
5:37place here today between you and I okay
5:39and that's the reason why everything's
5:41recorded because there can't be any more
5:44accurate record than that right so and
5:47the other thing I want to make sure you
5:48understand is that you know you
5:50mentioned a second ago about miss Komal
5:53being one of your work associates so I
5:56don't know what's happened since
5:58November on the military side of things
6:01but what we want to make people clear on
6:03is that if you have been spoken to by
6:05any person authority or any police
6:07officer about any of those cases I don't
6:10want what they may have said to you to
6:12make you feel influenced or compelled to
6:14say it need to be today okay
6:16whatever you might have felt influenced
6:17you're compelled to say to them earlier
6:19you don't have to repeat it to me and
6:20you'll have to say anything further okay
6:22but obviously what you do say you know
6:24for the third time is being recorded
6:26right so these first two attacks
6:28happened not that far from my place into
6:31evil the second one did yeah we didn't
6:34even know the first one that happened
6:35but that was was very close yeah so
6:41certainly at the time your VP today yeah
6:49okay
6:51yeah and I'm aware that from looking at
6:53the different cases and essentially a
6:55rustle in a nutshell that's what we
6:57wanted to talk to you about okay
7:00those four cases are a concern to us and
7:03you know you've kind of almost hit the
7:05nail on the head about some of our
7:07issues that kind of make us want to talk
7:09to - Russell Williams okay
7:11because essentially there was a
7:14connection between you and and all four
7:18of those cases would you agree yes yeah
7:28and that's what that's why I'll be quite
7:30frank with you that's why things kind of
7:33evolved when the officers talk to you on
7:36Thursday night we kind of went from
7:38there because when I think you discuss
7:41within the fact that you were a colonel
7:44yeah at the base obviously new form of
7:46the time stone yeah so pretty obvious
7:48right
7:49so essentially been the connection with
7:51miss Komal it was made and I believe
7:56you're ador to down from one of those
7:59two incidents intrigue 3-doors Nyonya
8:03yeah very close yeah exactly so those
8:07are some of the issues we wanted to
8:08discuss with you yeah okay
8:10so just getting back to these four
8:13incidents that we're talking about maybe
8:16you could just give me a little bit of
8:17history as to your arrival in the and
8:20the base in Trenton when did you start
8:23working there
8:25Friday on the day I was Friday on the
8:37day I was at home most most the day I
8:39had a stomach full okay in Ottawa or
8:42tweet tweet in Tweed okay so we
8:46backtrack then so all day Friday your
8:52home yeah and then what time do you
8:55leave to go to the base to sleep there
8:57on the Friday night okay and you get to
9:13the base and spend the evening there and
9:15get up for the 5:30 yeah okay so we
9:18backtrack from there you when did you
9:21arrive at your home at the cottage okay
9:25I want to only get confused between your
9:27home and Ottawa on the home reality said
9:28oh I have been in tweed a week yep the
9:32week prior now yeah I think that's the
9:38case since we don't week Saturday okay
9:46so if you didn't have the stomach flu on
9:49the Friday
9:49what was your schedule that day really
9:52okay standard schedule the office okay
10:00so in the morning okay so Thursday night
10:14you slept at tweed or you go all right
10:17and what do a Thursday during the day
10:19Thursday during the day I was at the
10:21base again I think it was a pretty
10:28standard day I can't recall exactly but
10:32yeah nothing I was not font size
10:35so I've gone in early in the morning
10:37back in the evening again okay do you
10:39remember what time you left the base
10:40that me hmm I don't remember anything
10:49peculiar so I would say I don't know
10:54probably seven to nine somewhere in that
10:56range that's when you left of the base
10:59here was a 45-minute transit sorry five
11:02minutes huh okay okay yeah I'm not not
11:04going to walk you through November but
11:05I'm gonna take you to a date that's
11:07probably pretty fresh in your mind the
11:09day that that refrence conk out do you
11:13remember how you found out I knew you
11:14know sends an email
11:18well as soon as the the off staff in the
11:21base learned they told me okay so I got
11:26an email I can't remember if it was late
11:27at night or in the morning but certainly
11:28I saw it I want to say first thing in
11:32the morning because I had just come back
11:33from Ottawa obviously offer a read no a
11:39set of meetings on one of the days okay
11:42Monday the week we're talking about but
11:45yeah no I mean obviously people gets
11:49killed it it's your attentions
11:50absolutely coming and how did you know
11:55marie-france Coleman I'd only met her
11:57once she was on a crew I was on just
12:02after I got to the base okay so I
12:05remember I think it was a one-day trip
12:09in Canada transporting our troops for
12:15the first Lake out of Edmonton you know
12:19we tend to hopscotch them across until
12:21they get in the fade or so and I can't
12:24remember which trip it was but did a
12:26number of them have cabinets and just
12:27pick up the troops bring them to Trenton
12:29and then put a fresh crew on and because
12:33we fly of them back in the same case
12:34pushing the edge of that fresh Quran
12:37they continue on after a couple hour
12:39till okay you know roughly when that
12:42happened so we were on the same crew you
12:45at the time you mattered the one time
12:46there yet it was soon after
12:48debate so I don't remember exactly but I
12:52would say in the first couple of months
12:53so August September okay now you got
12:58that email notifying it is something
12:59that happened do you have any kind of a
13:03clear recollection as to how your
13:05schedule was going that week well I
13:10can't remember what again what day that
13:12the message came in just second I can't
13:35remember the day of the week I'm just
13:44trying to think through the news reports
13:45I read I'm sorry I can't read day that
13:50was but what I what we learned after the
13:57fact was that the BMPs had learned of
14:03her death I think quite a bit after her
14:07body had been discovered okay so I think
14:14without another surgeon
14:22okay so I think if I remember correctly
14:26the MPS learned late that evening camera
14:31body was discovered is probably the news
14:33reports but so they emerged and then
14:36they passed it to Ofsted to meet so they
14:38immediate onst it to me damn piece work
14:41for the wing operations officer so they
14:43go through their chain command and then
14:44as soon as the the do need a large
14:46officer that information she advised me
14:48ok so again that that ones if anyone did
14:53some others right right I'm sure it's
14:55bright like wildfire yes
14:57so that particular week do you have any
15:01recollection well for instance when you
15:03got the email yeah do you remember where
15:05you work I was at home ok remember that
15:10was a week that you were reasonably
15:13stable and Tretton or how'd you know I
15:15had been in Ottawa I had been for some
15:20meetings over in gatineau for the c-17
15:25acquisition project director just some
15:29follow-up stuff for that ok so I had
15:32been here at some point in that week
15:38again I can't remember out of the days
15:40all felt together but a senior member
15:45that I got this word shortly after
15:47having come back from Ottawa seems to me
15:50it was the same week so if we were to uh
15:52to you know do a similar investigation
15:56your background sir
15:58sir anything you can think of that
15:59anybody may have misinterpreted or
16:01anything in your history that somebody
16:03might say Russell Williams did this ok
16:08very boring what's that it would be very
16:11boring alright because essentially
16:14that's what I'm looking at is it you
16:19seem like a very intelligent person and
16:20I think you can see how a surprise like
16:24that would certainly social some alarm
16:26bells investigation great ok so the next
16:31thing we need to cover off is uh well
16:33I'll just ask you this straight out
16:36given the types of crimes for
16:37investigating do you get much chance to
16:39uh to watch television show CSI things
16:42like that
16:43I do wish I defer long order but I do
16:46watch CSI occasionally is okay so you
16:49have an idea of obviously the forensic
16:50capabilities things like that are out
16:52there what would you be willing to give
16:55me today to help me move past you in
16:58this investigation what what do you need
17:02well would you be willing to supply
17:06things like fingerprints blood samples
17:08like that
17:08okay Footwear impressions yeah okay all
17:13right
17:14I think that's what we're gonna we're
17:15gonna ask you to do all right now we
17:17have a process we have to go through to
17:19do that okay and for the blood sample I
17:22don't take the blood sample we have
17:23specially trained officers that are
17:24trained to do that I'm gonna step out
17:26and make sure they're still available
17:29can I assume you're gonna be discreet
17:32it's possible yeah they thought I did
17:42this well by Russell that's one of the
17:46reasons we're here on a Sunday afternoon
17:47the the military certainly be of great
17:50assistance for to us especially in
17:52relation to mr. Coleman's investigation
17:54so there's certainly one of the things
17:56that went into our decision to to give
17:58you a call at home day and see if we
17:59could deal with this today okay
18:00okay now that you've had some time to I
18:20mean I know we've been for a lot of
18:21things out here but now you've had some
18:22time to think about things is there
18:25anything that you're concerned about
18:28that buccal swab matching in any of
18:31those four residences
18:33I guess let me explain you what I'm
18:37getting at here Russell okay this is a
18:40significant investigation as you confirm
18:42so as you can well imagine that that DNA
18:46is going to be significant in our
18:48investigation both
18:49you know quite possibly to help you buy
18:51possibly to help us I just I don't know
18:53yet resulted yet and I'll go back to the
18:58example I gave you because a very
18:59similar issue I think and you talked
19:03about the idea of discretion here okay
19:05you talked about the idea that you know
19:10you know I think hopefully you
19:12appreciate the fact of how we approach
19:13to here yeah
19:15and essentially we have no issues with
19:17that okay
19:19we talked recently about you know the
19:21whole idea of any unusual sex out to
19:23your history but another thing can often
19:27happen in cases like this is if people
19:29become concerned about things like
19:33extramarital affairs indiscretions along
19:37those lines is there any contact that
19:42you may have had with any of those four
19:44women that you may not want your wife to
19:47be aware of anything like that that we
19:50should know about to try and explain why
19:53if if your DNA is found that they'll
19:56help us understand why it may be there
19:57absolutely not
19:59can you think of any reason why we would
20:04find your DNA in any other residences
20:06let's let's focus on well for instance
20:08most I believe let me just check the
20:10name there make sure I've got the right
20:11address talking about the house it was
20:13just a couple of doors down from me
20:15there
20:15ina in tweed couple of doors down
20:18[Music]
20:26there's a woman down the road three
20:29doors down her name is Laurie just make
20:33sure we're on the same page here my
20:40understanding is she lived at 276 cozy
20:42Cove yeah so she would be the one the
20:44second one the second incident on your
20:47on your road there a couple doors down
20:49ever been in her house nope we met her
20:55once I think the first summer we were
21:00there
21:01okay and that's what I'm getting at I
21:03died again this is a credibility issue
21:06right because I don't want to come and
21:08see you two weeks from now and say you
21:11know rest of our CSI people in that
21:13house and are you familiar with
21:15house--he DNA works I think broadly yes
21:20okay so one of the challenges we have in
21:242010 with DNA is has become so precise
21:27that I guess the best way to explain it
21:31is I can think back 15 years ago when I
21:33started in in violent crime
21:35investigation yeah for us to get a DNA
21:38match the sample we had to find was you
21:43know probably wouldn't fill the half of
21:44one of these cups you know because they
21:46destroy so much of the the sample in the
21:48testing essentially DNA has become more
21:52and more precise to the point where when
21:55you and I walked in this room earlier
21:57today we could have sat down talked for
22:0030 seconds walked out CSI officer could
22:03have come in three four days from now
22:06yeah did some swabs here and he would
22:08have found your DNA in my DNA and
22:10probably a lot of other people's DNA a
22:12little bit girls to think about but
22:14essentially you know as we talk you know
22:18a little bit aspirin comes out of remote
22:20that that contains our DNA or blood or
22:23skin cells container DNA and that's what
22:25I'm getting at if you were ever in
22:26Lori's residence quite possibly
22:29and quite honestly your DNA could be in
22:32that residence is there ever been a time
22:33you've been in there okay what about the
22:38other lady down the road on okay have
22:45you ever visited refrence como Li her
22:48residence no okay all right so you're
22:52quite positive there'll be no reason why
22:53your DNA would be any of those three
22:55locations okay
22:57did you know Jessica Lloyd even in
22:59passing for any reason no I didn't hurt
23:03her hear her name so that was on the
23:04news okay the reason I'm asking that is
23:08because
23:09I know you were asked that question on
23:11Thursday night and sometimes what we
23:14find and again this is one of those
23:15situations that can sometimes cause us
23:17to get an a like the investigation is
23:19somebody that maybe doesn't deserve it
23:20but what can happen sometimes is they
23:23you know somebody gets stopped by the
23:25police I viewed it and they get asked
23:28that question and people under stopped
23:31by the police that can be nervous okay
23:33so they blurt out an answer and then
23:35they start driving away and you know why
23:37do I do that
23:37because the problem is is that once they
23:40get asked again then they feel compelled
23:42to maintain that answer for fear that if
23:47they change their answer somebody could
23:48find it you understand what I'm saying I
23:49do okay so I wanna make sure that's not
23:51happening here I don't care what you
23:52said to the officers on Thursday night
23:54last week if there's any communication
23:58or contact between you and Jessica Lloyd
23:59you've seen her picture right right I
24:01don't
24:02okay ever seen her before you mentioned
24:10something about doing some renovations
24:12out here at your property in Tweed there
24:14I think you said something really about
24:17tearing up curb that correct me if I'm
24:18wrong but okay when did all that happen
24:21in 2005 okay any recent renovations okay
24:27all right just well there's some carbon
24:36all the bases here time tires do you
24:44have on your Pathfinder I think I think
24:50Toyo Gillibrand or sorry the other base
24:57sort of the make is Toyo yeah
25:04all right read this up to see if it
25:07rings a bell
25:13ever heard of does Toyo open country
25:17HTS yeah any sense okay when did you
25:21have those tires probably a pathfinder
25:24well it's the second version we've had
25:26of them so I think it might have been
25:32this past fall they replaced other ones
25:35we had on the same well Toyo I can't
25:38even say that they're the same exactly
25:40the same model but our dealership here
25:43anonymous says they're very popular for
25:45the Pathfinders I've had I thought you
25:54were talking about the whole idea of the
25:56MPs helping us with our investigation
25:58Silvia's you have the same system as we
26:01do at our headquarters with the swipe
26:02cards one of the things one of our
26:06investigators did is they made a call
26:07while I was talking to you because we
26:10were trying to work through that week of
26:11the 23rd of November okay 23 be in the
26:14Monday 24th be in the Tuesday okay what
26:19they've what they've told us is that let
26:22me show you get this right is that on
26:24the 23rd your swipe card was being used
26:28at the base okay okay
26:30on Tuesday 24th there was no use of your
26:33swipe card okay and then on the the
26:35following days the Wednesday Thursday
26:37Friday there was what appeared to be
26:40average activity just white card base
26:42does that make sense to you it does that
26:45I was on the Tuesday okay do you
26:48remember we're in Ottawa you were yeah I
26:50was in Ghana with as I said meeting
26:53about the c-17 okay now again I want to
26:59be fair you never going back two months
27:01are you sure that would have been the
27:03day you were in Ottawa well only because
27:08I wasn't at the base okay so I can't
27:11remember
27:11honestly that that's the day I had the
27:13meeting in Ottawa but
27:15if I wasn't at the base it was because I
27:16was here okay now if that is the day you
27:19had a meeting in Ottawa do you remember
27:21being at the base on the Monday the 23rd
27:25and swiping your car didn't oh do you
27:27remember what you would have done that
27:28evening to get to Ottawa for that
27:30meeting
27:30like would it be I drove to Ottawa in
27:35the morning of the day of my meeting so
27:37if it was the Tuesday that I would have
27:38left tweet it was a very foggy morning
27:42that morning I drove in okay so I would
27:47not have been at the base the day I was
27:51in because the meeting started okay so
27:54you leave the base you would have went
27:56home to to your residence and tweet and
27:59then you left tweet in the morning and
28:01drove up your meeting in Ottawa okay you
28:04leave the the meeting in Ottawa is a
28:06daytime meeting EP meeting or remember
28:09yeah it was a daytime meeting finished
28:13okay we had lunch and then finished I
28:15think my wife and I had dinner because
28:18she was here for work in Atlanta death
28:20okay well that's these are the kind of
28:24things I'm trying to draw out here
28:25that's helpful to us
28:26did you remember where you had dinner it
28:32was in Westborough because that's where
28:34I host was being built at the time so we
28:35had dinner you know in a restaurant that
28:38we would expect to be able to frequent
28:41and once that was okay how you paid okay
28:48all right are you sure about that car
28:50pretty sure that's normally how we all
28:55right it was me or my wife that one of
28:57us okay and you remember which
28:59restaurant it was again no all right and
29:02you see where I'm getting at right I
29:03mean that can be very helpful for us
29:06because if we can track that issue we
29:09can we can put somebody paying for a
29:11meal at a location is meeting with 15
29:14people okay what time did the meeting
29:17end I would say between 3:00 and 4:00
29:22okay and are you sure that that's the
29:25same day you went out with your wife
29:28well I think so yeah because she was
29:34here and I think that was the day we
29:39went to this restaurant was furious okay
29:42you finished dinner and you remember
29:45what you did that evening okay and you
29:49would have now again I know we're
29:53talking two months ago here with you
29:54remember specifically having dinner and
29:56then driving back to tweet or do you
29:58remember are you just guessing here no
30:03I'm not really guessing I mean I believe
30:05that this night at this restaurant was
30:07following the meetings in Ottawa hmm and
30:10I kiss my wife goodbye and headed back
30:14to tweet I'll go to work the next day
30:16okay all right
30:20the tires that you have on your truck
30:24right the reason I asked about that is
30:25sir
30:25is there any time I mean you recall
30:29where you were stopped by the officers
30:31there yes
30:33could they explain to you what the
30:35significance of those are rose that was
30:36her house okay she remembered that
30:37location
30:38yeah remember what the cross road was or
30:40I don't think there was a cross was sort
30:43of just the south end of 37 okay when
30:48you get stopped at that location has
30:50there been a time in the recent one or
30:53two weeks that your vehicle has left
30:57that role for any reason whatsoever have
30:59you driven into a field with your
31:01vehicle at all and for any reason you
31:04can think of no okay so I want you to
31:07wrack your brain here this is important
31:08okay is there anything you can remember
31:10doing that you know what caused you to
31:14drive off the road no at that section of
31:17roadway no that's my early yeah that's
31:20the early part of the highway and just
31:22head north it's about 30 minutes from
31:24there to probably 20 was from there to
31:27my house okay would it surprise you to
31:31know that when the CSI officers were
31:34looking around her property that they
31:38identified
31:40a set of tire tracks to the north of her
31:43property looks as if the vehicle left
31:46the road and drove along the north tree
31:49line of Jessica Lloyd's property okay
31:53they took they examine those tire tracks
31:57and they have contacts in the tire
32:01business obviously tire tracks are a
32:03major source of evidence for us sir
32:06shortly after this investigation started
32:09they identified those tires as the same
32:12tires on your Pathfinder really yeah
32:16okay okay one of the other one of the
32:20other things that they do to tryin to
32:22getta find the type of vehicle that they
32:23have left those tires
32:24well they do two things they talk to
32:26witnesses okay there was a female police
32:31officer that actually drove by that
32:32location that evening and recalls seeing
32:35an SUV type vehicle in the field up to
32:38the north of Jessica Lloyd's house
32:40consistent with a Pathfinder okay it may
32:43be consistent with other things because
32:44there's a very hot fire and the what
32:49they also do to try and identify the
32:50type of the vehicle is they look at what
32:53they call the wheelbase width
32:55okay because different vehicles
32:56different makes models have wheel base
32:57width so they can take those two sets of
32:59tire tracks measure the distance between
33:01them okay and determine what the the
33:05width is and then they can enter that
33:07into a vehicle database and it will spit
33:09out the types of vehicles okay
33:11your pathfinders wheel base width is
33:14very very close to the width of the the
33:18tires they were left in that field okay
33:22do you have any recollection at all of
33:25being off that road okay all right
33:30Russell is there anything you can think
33:35of
33:36let's go talk about Marie friends Komal
33:38for a minute okay hmm is there any
33:40reason at all you can think of that
33:44during our investigation obviously we're
33:47searching computers
33:50things like blackberries right
33:51electronic devices looking through
33:54houses for things that are in
33:56handwriting written notes Diaries things
33:58like that and I'm not at liberty to tell
34:01you what the content was but is there
34:03any reasonable you can think of why
34:05marie-france komal would have
34:07specifically reference you in some of
34:10her some of her writings no no okay
34:18is there anything as she ever said to
34:20you that led you to believe that there
34:22might be something more than a passing
34:24interest with her towards you
34:26I don't know no we spent you know one
34:29flight together talking I would go back
34:32pick Ashley and talk know if that's the
34:37case that's it
34:38that's very surprising okay all right
34:41you have any questions for me right now
34:43no I'm just gonna step out and see how
34:45things are going okay I mean it is a
34:47Sunday but there's probably 60 70 people
34:49working on this file so there's a lot of
34:50things happening sure so let me go out
34:52and see what's happening and I'll I'll
34:54come back in and hopefully continue all
34:56right I told you when I came in here
34:59that I'm gonna treat you with respect
35:00and I've asked you to do the same for me
35:04we talked about the whole idea of how
35:06we've approached you here okay the
35:10trying to be as just read as possible
35:13okay
35:14but the problem is Russell is every time
35:16I walk out of this room there's another
35:18issue that comes up okay and it's not
35:21issues that point away from you it's
35:22issues that point out you okay and I
35:24want to I want you to see what I mean
35:26all right this is the footwear
35:33impression of the person who approached
35:37the rear of Jessica Lloyd's house on the
35:41evening of the 28th and 29th of January
35:44okay all right now I want you to keep in
35:48mind that this is slightly smaller okay
35:50in scale okay okay all right that's not
35:53to scale that's a Footwear is absolutely
35:55bigger if you look here on the ruler
35:57you'll see that one inch is just
35:59slightly smaller than actually
36:01okay but this is the way it prints off
36:03on the computer yeah I'll move this over
36:06so you can see what I mean all right
36:08essentially when you're dealing with
36:10Footwear impressions we have a gentleman
36:13on the OPP who was basically world
36:15renowned his name is John Norman and
36:17essentially with Footwear impressions
36:19you're in a situation where you're
36:21you're pretty much in the area of a
36:24finger prints okay and essentially what
36:27we're talking about here is what
36:28especially when you start adding in
36:30other pieces of information and support
36:33and investigative position okay
36:39this is a photocopy of the boot that you
36:44took off your foot yeah just a little
36:46while ago okay
36:47now I'm not an expert in Footwear
36:50impressions so I rely on the experts
36:53Footwear impressions are very much like
36:55like fingerprint comparisons okay you
36:59take a look at this print and again this
37:01is one print this person walked through
37:03there's several different prints to
37:04compare so we're going to get features
37:06off a one print to compare features
37:08offer another printing compare yeah
37:10these are identical your vehicle drove
37:20up the side of Jessica Lloyd's house
37:22your boots walked to the back of Jessica
37:26Lloyd's house on the evening of the 28th
37:29and 29th of January okay you want
37:32discretion we need to have some honesty
37:36okay because this is this is getting out
37:39of control really fast Russell okay
37:42really really fast
37:59this is getting beyond my control all
38:04right I came in here a few hours ago and
38:07I called you the way I caused your day
38:10because I wanted to give you the benefit
38:11out mm-hmm but you and I both know
38:14you're at Jessica Lloyd's house and I
38:17need to know why
38:49[Music]
38:51well you need to explain it because this
38:54is the other problems we're having
38:55Russell okay
38:56again these decisions are made by me
38:58right now they're just you and I both
39:17know they're going to find evidence that
39:19links you to these situations you might
39:25both know that the unknown offender male
39:30marie-france Cornwell's body it's going
39:34to be matched to you
39:35quite possibly before the evening is
39:37over okay this is a major investigation
39:41the center of Forensic Sciences on call
39:4324 hours a day helping us with this your
39:48opportunity to take some control here
39:50and to have some explanation that
39:54anybody is going to believe is quickly
40:00expiring hmm okay we're applying the
40:06investigators now applying for a warrant
40:08to search your office
40:12these aren't decisions that we can say
40:15yes or no to this is a practical steps
40:17in an investigation like this and
40:21Russell
40:42Russell mmm this is me for a second okay
40:46now the evidence comes in when I can a
40:49match when that phone rings and somebody
40:51knocks on this door
40:52[Music]
40:54your credibility is gone okay because
40:58this is how credibility works all right
41:00and I know you're an intelligent person
41:01and you probably don't need to hear this
41:02explanation but I also know your minds
41:04racing right now
41:05okay so side across a lot of people in
41:08your position over the years okay
41:10the bottom line is is that as soon as we
41:13get that that piece of evidence that
41:15solidifies it DNA okay as soon as the
41:19experts and footwear impressions the
41:22expert in tire impressions calls and
41:24says yes
41:25I've examined those and they're match
41:28mm-hmm it's all over because as soon as
41:32that happens or is your critically
41:36where's your believability
41:38you're just another and again don't take
41:42this wrong okay but you can see if you
41:45step outside this room in your mind and
41:47imagine how people are going to view you
41:50okay if the truth comes out after the
41:54clear evidence is presented to you when
41:57you finally go okay I'm screwed now
42:01mm-hmm what are we gonna go
42:12Russell
42:14you know there's only one option what do
42:16you what do you what other option is
42:18there well it's the ocean well I don't
42:22think you want the cold blooded
42:23psychopath option I might be wrong
42:32because I don't get me wrong I've met
42:34guys who actually kind of enjoyed the
42:36notoriety got off on it got off on
42:41having that label Bernardo being one of
42:44them I don't see that you I saw that you
42:47when you be back in you're talking to
42:49you quite frankly but maybe I'm wrong
42:58maybe you got me fooled I don't know
43:05this is over and it can have a bad
43:13ending where Jessica's parents continue
43:18to wonder where her daughter's lying I
43:26don't know I mean obviously there's a
43:30huge search still underway and it'll
43:31continue it will continue until her
43:35body's found that might even happen
43:41tonight for all I know once that happens
43:48then I don't know whether cards you
43:50would have to play
43:59what are we gonna do
44:43tell me Russ please okay sorry good ers
45:16it's Jessica somewhere we can find her
45:18easily I guess it's something where I
45:22can make a call and tell somebody to go
45:23to a location and they're gonna find her
45:25or something where we have to go and
45:29take a walk
45:55which direction are we heading in here
46:41Bres maybe maybe this would help can you
46:45tell me what the issue is you're
46:47struggling with
47:12or TSU struggle
48:18it's hard to believe this is not ice
48:49why is it hard to believe
49:10it's just hard to believe this decision
49:18was it and we're gonna find out the
49:22answer for this anyway but the decision
49:25was it to issue the directive to the
49:28base personnel that nobody had to speak
49:31to the police and to seek legal counsel
49:32before they were questioned my initial
49:38think that was my understanding that
49:40direction came from somebody that
49:42reports to you what do you think they
49:45were gonna say yes no what do you think
49:49they're gonna say all right and and
49:51let's let's step back for a second here
49:53okay I really don't think it benefits
49:56you or makes you look any better to
49:58start debating a little issues all right
50:00but that is news to me
50:01okay I have a legal officer that reports
50:03to me yeah who may have given that
50:06direction but that's the first time I've
50:08heard if that's true that's the first
50:09time I've heard that
50:10all right and that may be the case but
50:12how does it look alright we're not even
50:20in dealing with something that's really
50:21even evidence because it's not needed I
50:23mean but they have DNA and all this
50:25other stuff that's not even what was an
50:27immersion recall but it was something
50:30along the lines of telling the people on
50:32the base that they didn't they weren't
50:35required illegally to speak with police
50:36and they should seek legal counsel
50:37before they chose to speak but well if
50:40that was if that was actually said it
50:42would not have been to the base at large
50:44it it may have been to the individual
50:46the boyfriend who is the suspect my
50:50understanding it went out to all
50:51personnel no maybe maybe no only under
50:53your command I don't know okay okay
50:55that's why I didn't ever see that's fine
50:57now let's get back to the issue what's
50:59that
50:59so you talk about perception only to
51:02immediate concerns from a perception
51:04perspective or what my wife must be
51:08going through right now yeah and the
51:11impact this is going to have on the
51:13Canadian Forces where do we go
51:32Russ is there anything you want from me
51:36is there anything you want me to explain
51:40there's something missing the you're
51:42struggling with that I can shed some
51:44light on for you I'm struggling with how
51:53upset my life is right now breasts what
51:58are you looking for I'm concerned that
52:09they're tearing apart my wife's
52:10brand-new house so am i but if nobody
52:16tells them what's there what's not they
52:20don't have a choice
52:23Peter's will be brought to Microsoft in
52:26California they'll be they'll be picked
52:29apart you can't erase things from
52:32computers doesn't happen I'm sure you've
52:35seen that I'm sure that's pretty common
52:37knowledge these days it just doesn't
52:38happen there's these help programs that
52:42to try and help people clean their
52:45computers of stuff and our guys are
52:47pulling that stuff out all the time
52:49the FBI is pulling that stuff out all
52:50the time
53:00this investigation will end up costing
53:03no less than ten million dollars easy
53:10they will say no to nothing any requests
53:17this major case manager makes on this
53:19case they've already been told it's
53:22approved
53:23don't even bother ask
53:55so what am i doing rest I put my best
54:00foot forward here for you but I really
54:09have I don't I don't know what else to
54:11do to make you understand the impact of
54:14what's happening here
54:33till we talk Oh minimize the impact on
54:43my wife
54:44so do I so do we do that well we start
54:53by telling the truth
55:22okay
55:26sorry she
55:49I don't know um you should close to her
55:53she lives
55:54I've got maps of that general area which
56:02town machine here
56:03why don't we start there I'm not sure if
56:11you give me a map of covers with our
56:16highway yeah no we're good tweed you see
56:24what I got here I might have something
56:27is she inside outside it's probably the
56:57biggest area have there so where am I
57:04going on there oh I hear to get to her
57:07this blonde hair okay so you're pointing
57:12to that area where she's okay she close
57:16to a road yeah all right um this is
57:22something where is she is she buried or
57:24she somewhere where if you walk Terry
57:26but he would fairly easily see her heads
57:28here okay so she's south to seven East
57:34to Tweed West to 41 and what's this road
57:38here I'm not sure neither am i okay I'll
57:44be right back okay Joe any water or
57:46anything sure
57:53how long has she been there for little
58:01over a week was a fairly quick from the
58:04time she left it's Friday Friday night
58:11yep
58:11so where was she between Thursday night
58:13Friday night in tweet with you yep how
58:19long was she alive for almost 24 hours
58:27not quite that's you know the right
58:34thing here well again my interested in
58:45her family as well we should just know
58:50do time in Ottawa wasted really I'll
58:54tell you where they are mystic cards are
58:56where are they they're in the house
58:59there but in Ottawa yep
59:02we're about summing the camera bank
59:08which they would have found in my office
59:10and in the when you walked into the
59:13office on the left side there's a desk
59:18top drawers that drawers like a filing
59:22cabinet wouldn't like you in one of the
59:26top two drawers and there's a plastic
59:29divider yeah and there's inside there
59:35there are two member guards okay which
59:38are blank was it I'm sure they can be
59:39read and whose images are on those codes
59:44well I've erased them but I expect about
59:56marine
59:57[Laughter]
1:00:03there may be images on there as well and
1:00:08the two women from September yeah do you
1:00:13have those images stored anywhere else
1:00:19yep
1:00:20there are two hard drives in the Houston
1:00:23Ottawa
1:01:04[Applause]
1:01:30[Music]
1:01:51somebody running around looking for
1:01:53actual map that did the same thing with
1:01:57the Google Maps was absolutely enough a
1:01:59little bit more this is that this is the
1:02:09biggest of the area this might have
1:02:14better primers for you first wheat and
1:02:36what role does that carry no south up I
1:02:40read that word east Hungerford so make
1:02:46sense well there it is there
1:02:49how far off the road is she forty feet
1:02:52she buried she covered with anything
1:02:57she's wrapped up in what's on the
1:03:00surface agree very the obvious question
1:03:09I'm gonna have for he is when they go
1:03:14there and they'll be there shortly
1:03:15they're gonna find her oh yeah okay I'll
1:03:19be right back know how you want to say
1:03:24something just that the this place is my
1:03:27wife it's been a dream for years
1:03:34okay we're doing armed or best to keep
1:03:37that as low-key as possible what do you
1:03:40want to talk about well do you want to
1:03:50work forwards or backwards
1:03:55why don't we start with Jessica how does
1:04:00that start for you I saw her in her
1:04:08house on a treatment what's ten Eddie's
1:04:17and I notice she wasn't there Thursday
1:04:24so I got a new house look around then
1:04:33and they left notice she'd come home so
1:04:42I went back in through the back patio
1:04:48door while she was sleeping
1:05:07so I woke her up
1:05:21didn't come here I'm here once Friday
1:05:51well so I raped her in her house and
1:05:58then I took her to the car took her to
1:06:01treat
1:06:14and
1:06:19spend the day in tweed
1:06:28and I hate her as we were walking she
1:06:32thought they were leaving
1:06:57um what did to hit on the back of the
1:07:00head well I was surprised at her her
1:07:08skull gave way what did you hit her with
1:07:22flashlights okay in the house sir
1:07:27outside that knows where in the house
1:07:37this happened in the main portion from
1:07:41the fireplace
1:07:43what do you mean the find signs of it no
1:07:46I expected to know correct
1:07:56what did she bleed onto before it's just
1:08:02ok did you clean it up birds yeah well I
1:08:11makes you think that like if I walked in
1:08:14that house for all you advice he
1:08:16wouldn't see it I'll show it I'm sure
1:08:23okay um so when that happened was she
1:08:27did she have clothes on or was she naked
1:08:29or she was dressed okay so when we find
1:08:33her is she gonna have those clothes on -
1:08:36all right okay
1:08:42marie-france coma
1:08:53there was an open window in the basement
1:08:55of her her house when she was away I
1:09:00went in there couple nights before she
1:09:04came home looked around
1:09:07I went packing there late at night when
1:09:14she was at home he's on the phone or
1:09:17beggar
1:09:23she actually discovered me in the
1:09:26basement she was trying to get her cat
1:09:31to come upstairs and the cat was in the
1:09:34basement that see me let succeeded on me
1:09:36in the corner she couldn't get the cab
1:09:38up so she came downstairs try and get
1:09:43the cat and I'm not sure why she came
1:09:48over to me I guess the cat was staring
1:09:50at me and she was wondering with keva
1:09:51staring it
1:09:55let's run so when she spotted me I had
1:10:09the same flashlight I said dude her tied
1:10:18her up upstairs and strangled her later
1:10:34in the morning
1:10:39our suffocated hurt some tape laughter
1:10:53there
1:11:00I do subduer when you say it's a doodle
1:11:03in the basement what do you do well I
1:11:06had the same flashlight and she she saw
1:11:17me right away so it's just hit her a
1:11:19couple of times around her head try and
1:11:22knock her out didn't but she was
1:11:28cleaning all of it eventually her
1:11:37struggles computer
1:11:45any blood from from that struggle oh
1:11:47yeah
1:11:48no I'm not on a whole bunch but
1:11:52flashlight it breakers skin a couple of
1:11:55times okay what area of the basement did
1:11:59that take place in I was hiding behind
1:12:04the furnace so she spotted me right
1:12:07there okay she recognized you know I had
1:12:11my face
1:12:23um so you go upstairs and you said she
1:12:28suffocated well I saw get her a tape on
1:12:32her I put tape on her mouth kind of tape
1:12:52was it what happened to it did you use
1:13:21tape for any other purposes
1:13:32did she ever recognize you through this
1:13:34whole episode what did you say you had
1:13:37on your face
1:13:38I just a cover for my head is too you
1:13:44know sports pulled over taking pictures
1:13:49to cap Kathy
1:14:13um now this flashlight where is that now
1:14:17tree and now what kind of did you take
1:14:51anything out of refrences house or
1:14:54Jessica Lloyd's house yeah some of their
1:14:58newer okay um where is that
1:15:12it's in some boxes in the basement here
1:15:18not off and that Rick row so we just
1:15:22move in so they're boxes everywhere so
1:15:24on the same side is the furnace room
1:15:26let's River the back against the wall
1:15:29okay what are the boxes look like I
1:15:36think one's a scanner with logs for my
1:15:39scanner mm-hmm they're they're all right
1:15:44next to each other so quick look through
1:15:46the boxes there how much I know where's
1:15:51in those postures 60 pieces are all
1:16:03limits yeah 60 pieces of there's up
1:16:09hoops of discus and so you took sixty
1:16:19pieces from between the toilet okay all
1:16:25right and there are likely toggles
1:16:28scanners at a computer scanner box on
1:16:30computers scanner is up in the office
1:16:31and it's boxes down the basement so okay
1:16:34it's inside that box any of the
1:16:37underwear in those boxes belong to
1:16:38anyone other than refrance or or Jessica
1:16:48yeah there's some from each of the other
1:16:51okay why don't we talk about those to it
1:16:57so the first one happened on the 16th
1:17:00and I don't know why I can't recall
1:17:03their names but believe it was a live
1:17:09closer to know so the first the first
1:17:20one I just spotted her from our boat
1:17:27Ashland
1:17:30got into the house while she was asleep
1:17:34knows that she was alone and I was here
1:17:45with my hand while she was sleeping
1:17:52subdued her mostly just my weight
1:18:07better take off her pajamas I took some
1:18:12pictures some of our underwear I left
1:18:20and the other woman
1:18:25coming through the back of the house she
1:18:31was sleeping in her brother TV all right
1:18:45anything different about that story
1:18:47oh yeah pretty much same story exactly
1:18:49the same story or two different things
1:18:51right
1:18:51yeah no not much different I did have
1:18:56the flashlight car for closed pictures
1:19:13left
1:19:21why do you think these things happen
1:19:38let me spend much time thinking about
1:19:40that about why yeah
1:19:56and I'm pretty sure the answers don't
1:19:58matter I mean let me ask you this did
1:20:02you like or dislike these women I didn't
1:20:07know any of them okay I had met Abby
1:20:12phones that at one time and then in her
1:20:15airplane okay no but I guess one yeah
1:20:20when you're going through these things
1:20:24are you good well I mean let's talk
1:20:26about Jessica cuz she was there with you
1:20:28for the whole day right what kind of
1:20:32feelings were you experiencing while you
1:20:33were with her that day
1:20:49I'll shoot her ask her
1:21:02can you tell me why you killed right do
1:21:06you know what you killed well I think I
1:21:08killed her because I knew that
1:21:20her story would be recognized her story
1:21:29will be recognized how do you mean
1:21:31mom please he knew I was taking pictures
1:21:42so because of the chu stories tweet that
1:21:54would have been a fairly and quite
1:22:00obvious
1:22:04so if you didn't take pictures what
1:22:06would you have done with her oh I don't
1:22:11know
1:22:12I mean she's at your house right
1:22:15oh let me ask you this is it
1:22:22too late right to die well it's what was
1:22:28the difference in your mind between well
1:22:33the attention the first to God was very
1:22:41much focused on obviously or for obvious
1:22:47reasons pictures a trip
1:22:54so anybody else telling stories about
1:22:57pictures right from the straight line
1:23:07okay but when when this thing happened
1:23:11was Marie Franz there was was did you up
1:23:15believing you were already a suspect for
1:23:18what happened in sweet no so what it
1:23:24what were you concerned about well
1:23:29because I was pretty sure that you know
1:23:41she was serving military right
1:23:48we've been difficult for investigators
1:23:51to ignore that connection makes sense um
1:24:05let's go back to Jessica then okay you
1:24:11see her on the Wednesday night okay on
1:24:14our treadmill how do you see her okay
1:24:27the did you stop to look at the house or
1:24:30how does I catch your eye as you drive
1:24:32by oh I was looking to see who was who's
1:24:37where that area very well so I'm just
1:24:43keeping my eyes open
1:24:48so you spider on the way and say yeah do
1:24:52you just keep on going or did you just
1:24:54stop and take a closer look that mate or
1:24:56anything okay and you went back on the
1:25:01Thursday night right yeah
1:25:06so back on the Thursday night and you
1:25:10went you went into the house before she
1:25:12came home she was out yeah she was a
1:25:29going through the kitchen window
1:25:32everything else was long okay so you're
1:25:40in there doing what look around look
1:25:45around to see who lived in the house it
1:25:49was just her okay then what do you do
1:26:01well I left the house
1:26:14and she came home I bet I was very long
1:26:22so I watch for a little bit to see if
1:26:24she was home she was
1:26:39when she went back to sleep
1:26:41bündchen Wesley so you go in she is
1:26:48sleeping and what do you do well I snuck
1:26:56up to the side of her bed expecting to
1:27:06try to knock her out she woke up but she
1:27:17did as I said sure
1:27:21what did you say okay she didn't tell
1:27:31her the chair up front so she's on her
1:27:40stomach how are you tying around her
1:27:44hands behind her back
1:27:45okay you should have clothes on at that
1:27:48point
1:27:49mm-hmm what kind of clothes sweats all
1:27:55right just tie your hands behind her
1:27:58back and then then what happens I took
1:28:01her clothes off okay
1:28:17and then what happened I raped her
1:28:27our rape could mean a lot of different
1:28:29things what kind of sexual act took
1:28:31place vaginal oral oral who was
1:28:46performing the oral sex beyond her okay
1:28:59any any condoms used or anything like
1:29:02that no so they can get corrected from
1:29:08wrong vaginal intercourse or playing
1:29:13performing oral sex on you and you
1:29:14performing oral sex on her
1:29:16remember what order those things are
1:29:18critic yeah I started with oral sex okay
1:29:42anything any kind of conversation
1:29:44happening when this is going on yeah a
1:29:50little bit always pay instead
1:29:56I threatened her before she before I had
1:30:02her perform oral sex what did you say
1:30:09well I put a zip tie around her neck I
1:30:15said then have it pull it if I didn't
1:30:19quit she knew each other okay so she did
1:30:26what you told her to do any issues there
1:30:30any reason to pull it so do you remember
1:30:38if you ejaculated at that point or at
1:30:40any point okay so the oral sex finishes
1:30:48and then what happens next well I
1:30:57continued to rape her and I had her put
1:31:04on some of her underwear took some
1:31:08pictures lots of pictures and then got
1:31:16her dressed okay at what point did you
1:31:22decided that she was gonna leave with
1:31:24you I'm not sure I wasn't necessarily
1:31:36always the plan
1:31:41but at some point I was there for three
1:31:52three hours through this
1:32:00okay do you remember the conversation
1:32:06about leaving was there any she's saying
1:32:10anything about that or what was she
1:32:12saying to you she was certain cooperate
1:32:21okay
1:32:32a cooperative can mean a number of
1:32:34different things was she excitable
1:32:36leaving with you I don't be sarcastic
1:32:38but she just did did she try and
1:32:43negotiate with you at all what did she
1:32:48say well I told her that I would let her
1:32:53go later on okay so when you take her
1:33:00out of your house is she is she still
1:33:02found her you know how was that done
1:33:06just hands behind her back
1:33:09I put her feet anything there she was
1:33:14walking pretty okay barefoot or no no
1:33:18she added those brown suede shoes have
1:33:22been reported okay so where does she sit
1:33:28in your truck when you get to HR fartsy
1:33:31passenger side okay and where do you go
1:33:37straight to tweet straight to your house
1:33:41and tweet or show you just the town
1:33:43no stops anywhere okay what time do you
1:33:47remember right time you're right there I
1:33:53don't exactly but I'd say between 4:30
1:33:56and 5:30
1:34:05and you were when you were first there
1:34:07before she came home
1:34:08do you remember did anybody come to the
1:34:11door at all when you were in the house
1:34:16no I think somebody had come home as
1:34:18something to come to the house just
1:34:19before she did because I thought it was
1:34:22further than they left why was that so
1:34:25good to see who that person was or what
1:34:28kind of vehicle they were in everything
1:34:30so though it's nice you know buzzer and
1:34:32then also okay
1:34:38where were you when that first vehicle
1:34:40pulled up in the back back here okay so
1:34:45you didn't have a view of the vehicle
1:34:47you just tell if there was a vehicle
1:34:48there's a clearance so you get home but
1:34:544:35 you say and then what happens uh
1:35:04well she showered washer
1:35:24yeah just sleep a little bit she was
1:35:29tied up
1:35:33how was she tied up at that point the
1:35:36other day I put tape over her eyes from
1:35:42the beginning so that's when they find
1:35:50her is that tape gonna be there or was
1:35:52it ever removed what kind of tape all
1:36:00right
1:36:03the duct tape they used was where's that
1:36:07rule that's all God I used it to use the
1:36:15rest of the tube behind her on her body
1:36:22so by all gone is it is it with the body
1:36:26now okay so you said who went to sleep
1:36:30when you came home you had a shed or she
1:36:33had a shower well we both went to sleep
1:36:40but she was tied up and I tied the rope
1:36:52I'm trying to picture and that would be
1:36:54so the grubs tied to what on her it
1:36:57stunned her hands mind her back okay and
1:37:00and then the Rope just wrapped around me
1:37:04with had so there's no slack okay Jim
1:37:08howling you slept four hours do you know
1:37:14if she slept I don't know okay so you
1:37:20wake up and that was so it wasn't two
1:37:26hours straight to her a bit was it much
1:37:30just
1:37:35so you later you get up from that and
1:37:38what happens next
1:37:46she had a seizure
1:37:54she felt that coming on and because she
1:38:00had some before lasted quite a while got
1:38:11her dressed into the family room
1:38:24anyway she soon recovered she got the
1:38:33stress but probably on for 15 minutes
1:38:56so how do you know she had them before
1:38:59she told me did she tell you why she
1:39:02gets them
1:39:03well she suggested it was stress yeah so
1:39:08she felt herself start to 10/7 said she
1:39:14thought she was gonna have a seizure you
1:39:22know so I show this she was lips
1:39:26convulsions
1:39:27so she was okay so she was could recover
1:39:34from that yeah she stayed with her
1:39:38doctors right sure she laid her tongue
1:39:48okay
1:39:53and then what happened oh let me have a
1:39:57little lie-down right there
1:39:58she was icy exhausted [ __ ] asleep wait
1:40:13for an hour or so and I had told her
1:40:17earlier that before I let her go I
1:40:20wanted to take some pictures of her in
1:40:23her underwear and have sex with her
1:40:43so after she'd had a rest for an hour or
1:40:47so remember different have it yet
1:40:59I'm sorry put on a number you know pairs
1:41:05hey nice bro yeah look I take it from
1:41:09those pictures are you in any of these
1:41:23pictures
1:41:24yep what kind of what kind of images are
1:41:32you in
1:41:44well I'm with her there's on the hard
1:41:49drives you'll see there's video as well
1:41:52so there's video of the almost four
1:42:02hours eNOS of what well
1:42:20initially at her place of raping her
1:42:31yeah so I was running the video and then
1:42:35taking still pictures so the video
1:42:37pretty much covers everything did you
1:42:41use video at other places is that video
1:42:50on the hard drives yeah same type of
1:42:55activity yeah well I didn't ever put on
1:43:04so Jessica poses for these pictures and
1:43:08there's videos and and then what happens
1:43:17then
1:43:19I got her dressed she was when did you
1:43:41decide to do that
1:43:59well I was pretty sure that I wasn't
1:44:03literally but yeah I do you streaking
1:44:12around the head was developed in the
1:44:16afternoon and what was that strike
1:44:23supposed to accomplish in your mind what
1:44:25was the intent of doing that okay so
1:44:37when you actually do strike her what's
1:44:39the result
1:44:42her skull gave way a little bit
1:44:46felt like there was a lot of blood
1:44:49that's what happened
1:45:05and then I strangled her why'd you
1:45:12strangle her
1:45:15same rope around her neck okay well she
1:45:22was unconscious know what happened to
1:45:29the zip tie that was around her neck
1:45:31earlier I took it off
1:45:43around innings
1:45:49did you take it off before you put the
1:45:51rope around her neck or after remember
1:45:53after she was dead
1:45:55oh so that zip tie was around her neck
1:45:59while you used the Rope mmm did you
1:46:02leave the rope around her neck and how
1:46:07did you know she was dead
1:46:16she not her body stopped early
1:46:31so why did you do after that I found her
1:46:38up there's fetal position
1:46:53and cleaned up before
1:47:11nope you see you bound her up how are
1:47:13you referring to the duct tape that you
1:47:14talked about earlier okay so then what
1:47:17did you I put her in the garage was very
1:47:28cold okay
1:47:42how'd you go to the base hurt me
1:47:44why did you go to the face because I was
1:47:49okay so what time did you leave to go to
1:47:52the base ten or so on the Friday night
1:48:00yeah okay so you fly and so which
1:48:13language is Saturday so you land and
1:48:19well time of your landing six six three
1:48:22okay did you go by the house and tweet
1:48:26on your way down tomorrow
1:48:27no so you drove straight home to Ottawa
1:48:33what time to get there at remember time
1:48:36before midnight I think I went in the
1:48:40office first did some work so I think
1:48:55I slept for a little bit at the Tim
1:48:58Hortons in Brockville so I might be
1:49:01later I remember okay did they issue
1:49:21so you get home here in Ottawa what do
1:49:25you do go to bed or okay stay up okay so
1:49:30then what do you do the next day my wife
1:49:36I did some stuff I can't remember what
1:49:41what was going on that day new house I
1:49:50hand it back to tweet sorry no I didn't
1:50:04Monday off that's right mother often
1:50:08when I was visiting one of the units in
1:50:11Ottawa on Tuesday so didn't head back to
1:50:14tweets for Tuesday okay get back to
1:50:23tweet and what happens thanks to that
1:50:32spot okay that happened on Tuesday night
1:50:37just this past Tuesday obviously okay do
1:50:41you remember what time that was
1:50:43it's pretty late it was bit like ish I'd
1:50:48say between midnight what made you
1:50:59decide to to measure that distance the
1:51:03point seven kilometers that's just the
1:51:08numbers after numbers and how did you
1:51:16leave
1:51:18I just last year took behind the pretty
1:51:23large rock that duct tape still on her
1:51:30and what else is on her a couple of
1:51:35towels wrapped around her head jeans
1:51:42okay did you ever go back there
1:51:57what other type of cleaning and things
1:51:59like that did you do anything else to
1:52:01kind of cover your tracks you can think
1:52:02of I vacuumed the house and I like the
1:52:08floor marshal for okay what about your
1:52:15truck do you anything with that just
1:52:19wash today because it was a mess vacuum
1:52:34um
1:52:38so marie-france when did when did her
1:52:43first occur to you to go to her house
1:52:55October October November not quite sure
1:53:00summer that timeframe India you remember
1:53:09why you thought to to do that uh well
1:53:23you know she had said she lives alone a
1:53:28long time I met her
1:53:48mishaela
1:53:50oh why her versus you know the dozens of
1:53:52other women you've probably come across
1:53:53on a daily basis
1:54:11after what she wasn't home just to see
1:54:14where she lived when did you do that
1:54:21it's a couple of months before how'd you
1:54:26know her address
1:54:31[Music]
1:54:33okay so when you go out there a couple
1:54:37of nights before you remember what night
1:54:39that was they were there first time I
1:54:45don't but it was within two or three
1:54:49nine seven okay well no more than four
1:54:54and how did you actually go into her
1:54:57house on that occasion or did you uh
1:54:59okay so what happened that made how do
1:55:01you how'd you get into our house on the
1:55:04side of the basement so I know okay I'm
1:55:10just a back step of it how did you get
1:55:12to our house that first night you went
1:55:14there drove what did you guys eat
1:55:27remember where you parked it yeah I
1:55:31parked it to the division in the
1:55:37residence where is there a party on the
1:55:39other side six seven hundred meters away
1:55:43okay so not on her street on different
1:55:46street humor what street you [ __ ] up
1:55:48no but she might be the same street but
1:55:51there's an interruption in the street
1:55:52with his construction zones there's a
1:55:56pathway okay so you go to her house and
1:56:04when you went there that night did you
1:56:07know that she was away I'm not sure if I
1:56:13knew entirely but is that based on her
1:56:20schedule or how
1:56:24well my yeah because I fly with the
1:56:27squadron I have access to the schedule
1:56:30it's a slightly different schedules yes
1:56:33but that's probably you know know for
1:56:36sure I think that's probably okay so you
1:56:44go to our house and what do you do that
1:56:47night the first night and I'm sorry did
1:57:06you say camera if you said how did you
1:57:08get in
1:57:08same same side on one side basement I
1:57:14know do her what kind of window it is
1:57:16like what made it I just flush that I
1:57:21see that it was not locked it had been
1:57:23open slate the screens so you go in and
1:57:32you're in her house figuring out she
1:57:35lives alone and do you do anything that
1:57:37night yeah that's playing with her
1:57:46underwear
1:57:51you mean playing with her it or wearing
1:57:59it okay so anything else
1:58:09not touch her stuff
1:58:16what do you mean you did touch her stuff
1:58:18I mean II touched her underwear but yeah
1:58:20something else did you take any of the
1:58:24underwear with you that night yeah a few
1:58:28pieces where did you find the other room
1:58:31when you want it the clean was it used
1:58:39for anything else should you remember
1:58:47doing that evening yeah oh all right so
1:58:57after that first visit did you return
1:59:00again before meeting up with her no so
1:59:07which day did you go to her house when
1:59:10she was there well the night before I am
1:59:17I telling it was so I think that was
1:59:18Monday night so let's walk through that
1:59:26what time do you think you got there but
1:59:3111:00 there some problem 10:30 though
1:59:40so she was on the phone in her room to
1:59:46hear that from the backyard I got in
1:59:52through the side window the same
1:59:55basement window how could you hear from
1:59:59the back yard what was your her on the
2:00:02phone
2:00:04front beside it so the house here
2:00:08through the walls and she was on the
2:00:09phone
2:00:11any idea who she was talking to or what
2:00:13she was talking about okay so you go in
2:00:18through the basement window
2:00:20what do you where this has happened
2:00:31sweatshirt talkers I guess pieces on my
2:00:40head where are those two pieces now
2:00:45pieces that you're on the head they're
2:00:52probably in my bag what's your luggage
2:01:00back look like they're the only blue
2:01:10duffle bag in your bedroom and these
2:01:14pieces what do they look like again it's
2:01:17a blue headband black skullcap any
2:01:31insignias or anything on them yeah the
2:01:36blue headband has something stitched it
2:01:43stitched on it yeah the black exports
2:01:53emblems or company emblems or it's the
2:01:56manufacturers okay anything else in that
2:02:02blue duffle bag what is it full of
2:02:09things I was just just okay you go in
2:02:18remember we had on your feet in the
2:02:24house there only went Emery Francis
2:02:27House probably my shoes
2:02:32there was snow on the ground so you go
2:02:37in and you're in the basement and
2:02:40whereabouts in the basement are you by
2:02:47the furnace okay
2:02:49and what are you doing like what's your
2:02:51what's your sort of plan at that point I
2:02:54was waiting for a little bit okay and
2:02:58how long did that take
2:03:00well she didn't and what happens next
2:03:12describe what subdued her give me the
2:03:16flashlight
2:03:21but essentially wrestled her to the
2:03:27ground and tied her up what did you use
2:03:35the tiger up it's in Tweed is it just
2:03:43green or like how long is this piece of
2:03:46rope that's probably yeah 20 feet it's
2:03:53it's a boat boat rope it's got some red
2:03:56specks in it I think it's for lots of
2:04:01ropes and tweeters is probably the only
2:04:03rope no this there - two months -
2:04:12lengths of the same green rope and were
2:04:15they both used okay see your tire tire
2:04:30up how did you tie her off when you
2:04:32obviously do that okay and what is she
2:04:36wearing at that point she wasn't wearing
2:04:39anything to start with it so when she
2:04:42came down to the base when she had no
2:04:43clothes on
2:04:44it's in sort of a shawl or our shoulder
2:04:47okay she dropped she's hot
2:04:51did she say anything when she's high she
2:04:55did call you bastard
2:05:03okay and then what happened then I
2:05:09subdue your as I described I had her
2:05:12here with that red flashlight okay oh
2:05:16they were glancing glancing blows okay
2:05:25she fell over and they're nice and she
2:05:29tripped how did you tie her at that
2:05:33point like I know used the rope but what
2:05:36did you tie her up like okay and then
2:05:47what happened after that upstairs
2:05:56did she go upstairs under her own power
2:05:58did you carry her no she passed her two
2:06:02on the stairs and then I carried her why
2:06:11do you think she passed out it's to her
2:06:19head she carried up to where better and
2:06:29then what happened
2:06:41as I described it on the bed I raped her
2:06:48over a period of time and again just to
2:06:54be specific with what sex acts took
2:06:56place your penis in her vagina yeah
2:07:03any condom use did you ejaculate did you
2:07:10exactly to any point with her but just
2:07:19before I forget you I think I asked you
2:07:22don't mean to bounce around on you hear
2:07:24us but with Jessica I asked you about
2:07:27ejaculation you said he didn't at that
2:07:29point when did you ejaculate with
2:07:31Jessica it was an at her residence or
2:07:45yours hers any other times that you
2:07:49would act they did with her when you
2:07:57ejaculate it was Jessica did you use
2:07:59anything to clean up for what happened
2:08:06to the ejaculate that's you swallowed it
2:08:14so getting back to marie-france
2:08:16just trait paternal sex no condom no
2:08:20ejaculation is that right yeah okay how
2:08:26long does that go for like how long were
2:08:30you engaged in that activity
2:08:36well I don't have to ours is okay I know
2:08:45what happens next well as I described I
2:08:52suffocated her using duct tape why did
2:09:01you decide to do that
2:09:10well again because the pictures as I
2:09:15described to you it is fair it was gonna
2:09:19be a pretty straight line back to tweed
2:09:25but why do i why did you decide to use
2:09:27that method versus something else
2:09:31I had thought about strangling her
2:09:47earlier that's on the video what is
2:10:05it was a short short of the tempt
2:10:07because she struggles with decided that
2:10:16I need to suffer cater solely shortened
2:10:23up to tempest Wrangler and what's on the
2:10:26video the suffocation or the training
2:10:28well just need putting my hand on her
2:10:31throat responding surprise very
2:10:43aggressively any videos of the
2:10:49suffocation part or pictures of that now
2:10:56you know you mentioned that you brought
2:10:57the rope with you or did the duct tape
2:10:59come from and what did you do with after
2:11:05it I think it's a statement we clear up
2:11:15duct tape but we're talking about I know
2:11:17it comes in a variety of colors with
2:11:18great great so before the suffocation
2:11:27obviously how long do you think you were
2:11:30with her from the point well how long do
2:11:34you think you were in that house from
2:11:35the point you went in that window the
2:11:37point left probably four hours okay
2:11:46so correct me if I'm wrong did you say
2:11:50you were they got there at eleven or
2:11:52around eleven I think that's right okay
2:11:57so you left around 3:00 in the morning
2:12:04well I was in the basement for quite a
2:12:06while before she came down and she
2:12:10wasn't gone a bit I was probably in the
2:12:12basement for three forty minutes
2:12:16so by the time she saw was probably
2:12:22closer to midnight all right any gloves
2:12:39[Music]
2:12:46did you wear clothes with Jessica only
2:12:51to get in the house what about the two
2:12:59women in in Tweed that was so while
2:13:05you're with Murray Fonz what kind of
2:13:09conversations are taking place to
2:13:10anything in if she said to you stick up
2:13:12your mind okay
2:13:19when did you tape her mouth since I got
2:13:23her up to the bedroom why did you decide
2:13:26to do that because she was quite
2:13:35aggressive and what was his cuff that
2:13:40she would have screamed give it a chance
2:13:47what way but she did initially did she
2:13:51didn't race so I won't wait was she
2:13:54aggressive well just when she discovered
2:13:59me she was very vocal scream quite a bit
2:14:05until I subdued her so I expected she
2:14:08would scream again give the chance you
2:14:15remember how you left her residence
2:14:20backdoor okay take anything with here
2:14:28that night so for anything else did you
2:14:40do anything else to try and cover your
2:14:44tracks with me Franz well it turned off
2:14:57my blackberry before I left trance do
2:15:08you remember trying to destroy any kind
2:15:09of evidence sir that or anything you
2:15:11thought may have produced evidence or
2:15:14anything
2:15:15I took her sheets off the bed and ran
2:15:17them through the laundry like the
2:15:23laundry where I in her house good did
2:15:27you run a complete you through did you
2:15:28wait for it to finish
2:15:29or just so the night you went to her
2:15:38house and got thrown 11 you came from
2:15:41where you said you left Trenton you
2:15:45turned off your BlackBerry did you
2:15:51talking about the base are you talking
2:15:52about or did you leave to go to her
2:15:54house oh no I just turn off my
2:15:57blackberry before I left the Trenton
2:15:58area I would have left from the base
2:16:03after work sorry when did you turn when
2:16:07did you what time do you think you
2:16:10turned your BlackBerry off well it's
2:16:15only a half hour drive to Brighton so
2:16:21probably in the nine 9:30 range remember
2:16:26what what time you would have turned it
2:16:30back on
2:16:31and I was back on the forever one
2:16:33heading daughter well that explained
2:16:35what time with Adam is oh 6 plus
2:16:40tri-state nuts okay so you leave her
2:16:44house three ish
2:16:45no I think it was later than that so the
2:16:48four hours obviously was I think as I
2:16:55think might end about 11 was in the
2:16:58basement for quite a while
2:16:59probably left her house closer to four
2:17:02or 30s over there okay and where you go
2:17:13straight tunnel did you go by your house
2:17:17and tweet or anything or just go
2:17:19straight sure what route you took yeah
2:17:26for one but from her place I got my
2:17:32straight are fun whatever the road is
2:17:34that goes straight through Brighton
2:17:35after the for one at the front one and
2:17:37headed east and so you're going to
2:17:44what's the meeting you're having that
2:17:46day an Ottawa or Miami the c-17
2:17:49acquisition project okay and he ran that
2:17:52meeting the project manager miss sue
2:17:57Hale is that the only meeting around
2:18:02that time period you would have went to
2:18:03on that issue was sued Hale hmm
2:18:05that wasn't like a weekly meeting or
2:18:08anything like that I know this is sort
2:18:10of a quarterly alright so the night you
2:18:17went the night this happened where did
2:18:21you park that name as I said across the
2:18:26gravel roadway probably that's probably
2:18:29the same Road
2:18:30okay similar location to the first name
2:18:33yeah all right
2:18:37same same vehicle yep
2:18:45all right
2:18:49okay let's talk about the scene as we're
2:18:54going backwards in time here why don't
2:18:55we talk about the second incident and
2:18:56tweet with Laurie Massaquoi um it's a 76
2:19:07cozy Cove how did you decide on her I
2:19:18knew she lived them all
2:19:23how did you know that didn't know her
2:19:33but I knew she was pretty long she had
2:19:36boyfriend haven't seem to be you didn't
2:19:52do and she's alone so she she had a
2:19:56boyfriend but he wasn't it was your
2:19:58frequent well okay so did you look in
2:20:13her house before the night that this
2:20:15this incident happened or when did you
2:20:17get it
2:20:18I've been in within the week Oh a couple
2:20:24nights earlier would you that name I
2:20:33would render me permanent signs of her
2:20:38boyfriend is took
2:20:45on our two pieces our underwear
2:20:55okay so tonight you go there when the
2:21:01incident happens what time that was
2:21:04I was pretty late I probably got into
2:21:09the house around midnight she was asleep
2:21:11on the couch I knew she was in there how
2:21:17did you get in sorry window in the back
2:21:20of the house
2:21:24summer what's just something you had to
2:21:28slide or how did you get that move the
2:21:31screen and slide it up okay so I got
2:21:39into the house and yeah she was asleep
2:21:43in front of tea
2:21:49whirring anything on your face that
2:21:51night yeah same things okay the headband
2:21:56in the cap what kind of clothes did you
2:22:02have one just dirt sweat sugar right so
2:22:11she's asleep on the couch you're in
2:22:13there and then what happens we have been
2:22:19through this day I know
2:22:20I struck her with the flashlight I'm
2:22:23gonna knock her head it didn't I'll be
2:22:25struggled I said duder took some
2:22:29pictures left somebody in the hospital
2:22:33two and a half hours it's a pretty short
2:22:40description for two and a half hours oh
2:22:46and we talked to her I wasn't gonna hurt
2:22:55her
2:23:02I told her that there were other guys in
2:23:06the house robbing her my job was just to
2:23:11control her what did she say to that was
2:23:32gonna be seriously hurt did she say that
2:23:37or did you just assume that no no she
2:23:39said lunch Cheers I was worried she was
2:23:47gonna be killed what did you do with her
2:23:55pictures over closed unclothed I both
2:24:01closed it Ashley and then unclothed
2:24:08are you in any of those pictures you
2:24:14just talked to her kind of camera are
2:24:18you using by the way digital son you
2:24:25just have the one camera yeah also there
2:24:31to separate some cameras take take video
2:24:35and where is that camera that in the
2:24:39video camera tweet us at the only camera
2:24:48a video camera in that house yep all
2:24:54right you take pictures ever and how do
2:24:59you end up leaving wait
2:25:13number minutes pour of course should
2:25:17call the police
2:25:20and you to leave immediately or did you
2:25:22stay there for a while see what she was
2:25:24gonna do or and where do you go home
2:25:30straight home did you did you wait to
2:25:36see if the police showed up or anything
2:25:37or no that's so with you and you got
2:25:43home for under feet sleep wake you the
2:25:51next day I'm going to work a couple
2:25:58hours later okay do you remember how her
2:26:10clothing was removed
2:26:17well because her hands were tied behind
2:26:19her back and they could cut off her top
2:26:21and then pulled off her bottom
2:26:24what did you use to cut are these items
2:26:42in your in your house and tweet was a
2:26:47river or any other time you use a knife
2:26:49to cut off clothing or anything else
2:26:53I cut off Jessica's top of the knife
2:27:02that's all
2:27:04where's that make which makes Jesus I
2:27:07was alone that was leather is it the
2:27:11only Leatherman and tweet so on 16th
2:27:18September when you went in that night
2:27:22was that the first time you'd better her
2:27:23house
2:27:25and why her just cuz I'd seen her she
2:27:32was cute okay so there was no eating
2:27:41going to her house before that that
2:27:43night no all right
2:27:48so you go in and how did you get into
2:27:50her house side window was not locked cut
2:28:01the screen slip the window
2:28:04okay and what you were say switch your
2:28:12pants the same hat okay and where do you
2:28:22find but sleep and what do you do stood
2:28:31over her for a while and I hit her on
2:28:34the left side of her head
2:28:35my hand just woke her up
2:28:41he's through
2:28:47you know just they are
2:28:57very much like I described Oh better go
2:29:01took off her pulled her top down took of
2:29:07her pants what some pictures
2:29:11remember who's hanging Annie - yes
2:29:15did she say her baby just next door yeah
2:29:30the room eight months or so so I'm just
2:29:35concerned about the baby it's turn for
2:29:38herself I assured her I was gonna hurt
2:29:40her any underwear taken from or Horry
2:30:00yeah and where would they be located
2:30:04Tweed
2:30:12and why are they in tweed as opposed to
2:30:16Rory Franz and Jessica's underwear
2:30:29- how much of their underwear you took
2:30:40not very much from Lori did they know
2:30:44that you took their underwear you didn't
2:30:48discuss it with her so wearing tweed
2:30:56with their underwear beat in the laundry
2:31:16room area just between the house and the
2:31:21trash right
2:31:31we're in that longer Mary would they be
2:31:33kept there's a cupboard top bank well
2:31:40it's tough up a quick are they all on
2:31:46the same tough okay is there anything
2:31:48else in that duffel bag when these when
2:32:05these pictures are looked at you talked
2:32:10about being in Marie Franz is underwear
2:32:11on the first night you went in did you
2:32:14take photographs oh that yeah
2:32:15what about anybody else's underwear yeah
2:32:21of you in their underwear and where were
2:32:25those photos taken well sometimes
2:32:44Mattie Frances case in her house the
2:32:49others in my house in tweet so is this a
2:32:56matter you would take the underwear go
2:32:58back and and then at some point put the
2:33:01owner on and take pictures about
2:33:03Jessica's underwear she's only her so
2:33:15you don't have pictures of you in her
2:33:16birth all right okay well I guess I just
2:33:30have a couple of questions for you I
2:33:31mean I'm sure there's gonna be more
2:33:33questions but I guess what's on my mind
2:33:34right now us is what made you decide to
2:33:39tell me this tonight
2:33:48mostly to make my wife's life easier is
2:33:58what you told me tonight the truth
2:34:08how do you feel about what you know
2:34:26discipline
2:34:30let me ask you this if this didn't come
2:34:36to the point it's out right now if
2:34:39whatever reason you didn't know power on
2:34:41a radar so to speak do you think it
2:34:44would have happen again I was hoping not
2:34:57okay not too much here that's just a few
2:35:04details that wanted to cover off
2:35:08specifically dan with Marie Franz in the
2:35:14basement of her house there's a hole in
2:35:17the drywall did you recall how that
2:35:21happened whereabouts I don't know
2:35:25specifically but this downstairs do you
2:35:32remember doing anything with her in the
2:35:34basement where you may have used some
2:35:35clothing or something to to secure her
2:35:39yeah I tied her up against the poles on
2:35:44the basement initially I went outside
2:35:48and put the screen back on and secured
2:35:51the window okay well she was tied to the
2:35:56pole yeah and what was your thinking
2:35:58behind doing that at that point just how
2:36:03I'd come in okay
2:36:07now by the time she's tied to that pole
2:36:09is that in the very initial few minutes
2:36:11kind of thing of the confrontation or
2:36:13that was shortly after I'd subdued her
2:36:16and tie her up yes okay does she have
2:36:18the duct tape on her mouth yet I think
2:36:25probably know kind pictures will short
2:36:29all right now in the upstairs bathroom
2:36:32by her bedroom there's a looks like
2:36:36something's occurred in there remember
2:36:38that
2:36:39yep what happened there she had passed
2:36:42out on the bed I'm going to look at the
2:36:45front window see if anybody was coming
2:36:48and she got up and closed the bedroom
2:36:54door and reached into the bathroom
2:36:56trying to get somebody's attention but
2:37:01her mouth was ticked and her hands were
2:37:02tied
2:37:04what did you do as a result of that well
2:37:07I just got in some buter and got better
2:37:13back in the thing just regain control of
2:37:19her okay if I remember correctly there's
2:37:22a bit there's bad blood in there do you
2:37:23know where that blood would have how
2:37:25that that would have occurred all the
2:37:26blood was from the initial hits as I was
2:37:31trying to subdue her her skin breaking
2:37:33with close to her head
2:37:37do you recall blood being in the
2:37:39bathroom there's a pair of underwear in
2:37:49some socks on the floor of that bathroom
2:37:51that belong to her do you remember how
2:37:54that he got there to see that they were
2:37:59called to either her breasts it's pretty
2:38:02clear that there was some something
2:38:04happened to her breasts remember what
2:38:07that might have been well Russell when I
2:38:22suffocated her she was on her her front
2:38:27so what do you mean well she was lying
2:38:35not before in the bedroom as I
2:38:36suffocated her as they struggled I
2:38:40didn't do anything specific for us okay
2:38:44so when you suffocate her that's when
2:38:47you have the duct tape over her mouth
2:38:47and nose and that's on the floor and
2:38:50then what happens after that
2:38:55well she died and I took the duct tape
2:39:01off her head put her on the bed do they
2:39:07okay what was your thinking behind doing
2:39:10that
2:39:23as you might expect your arrests
2:39:26certainly even now one of the Ottawa
2:39:29investigators mentioned to me that
2:39:31there's a number of incidents that that
2:39:34have gone unsolved over the years yeah I
2:39:43can't get somebody to take your washing
2:39:44okay

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