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Romania's Fitness King Is Not Even Romanian | Kent Orrgren | The Samir Kapoor Show — Transcript

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0:00How the [ __ ] has he managed to do
0:01something like this?
0:02>> Remember, there is no undo button.
0:03>> If the leader is an [ __ ] your
0:05>> company is screwed.
0:06>> First and foremost, put the right people
0:07in place.
0:08>> 17 clubs are back then. We were the
0:10largest chain due to the acquisitions.
0:12>> You may be the best person, [music] but
0:14you may not be the best for this
0:15organization.
0:16>> Why? No. Why? We are We're going to be
0:18the worst.
0:19>> And I said, "Exactly."
0:20>> Talk to the government. Usually,
0:21government doesn't listen to anybody.
0:22>> You sign a lease for 20 years.
0:24>> [music]
0:24>> And if you get it wrong, you're [ __ ]
0:26>> The best exercise is the one that is
0:28being done. Let's say worse challenges.
0:31>> At the end of the day, as a leader, the
0:33buck stops with you.
0:34>> It's It's on my shoulders, yes.
0:41>> Thanks for doing this, Kent. Really
0:42appreciate it.
0:42>> Thank you, Samir. I'm very grateful to
0:44to be here.
0:46>> Uh It's been It's been my dream to get
0:49you on the podcast. And you know, there
0:50aren't too many people like you in the
0:52industry who are doing what you're
0:53doing.
0:54And I go back to when I first, you know,
0:56when I first met you. And we had the
0:58Central Eastern European Conference.
1:00And I said,
1:01you know, I don't know how you managed
1:03to do this.
1:04Initially, I actually thought that the
1:05Central Eastern European was like an
1:07association like EuropeActive. And then
1:08you clarified, "No, no, it's not an
1:10association. It's just I'm just doing a
1:11conference so that we get people
1:12together." And then I And I then I dug
1:15deep and looked at your your your
1:17background. And I said, "He's not even
1:19from Romania. He's the president of
1:20RomaniaActive. How the [ __ ] has he
1:22managed to do something like this? So,
1:24that was the first question. And then
1:26I've been obviously speaking about, you
1:27know, speaking to people about what
1:29you've done and how you've done it. So,
1:31you're the big flag-bearer of the
1:33fitness industry in the Central Eastern
1:35European region. And people swear by
1:38what you're doing. You've set some good
1:40standards. And today was an example,
1:42classic example of you know, what you
1:44can do if you get together without
1:46having conflict of interest, with
1:48actually meaning well for the industry.
1:50So, Kent,
1:52somebody who does not belong in a way
1:55like is doesn't doesn't have Romanian
1:57roots. How did you manage to become the
2:00president of Romania active?
2:02>> Uh thank you for having me on the
2:04podcast first and foremost and thank you
2:05for the very kind words and the
2:07interaction and
2:08uh I'm not the only one carrying the
2:11flag. It's uh a lot of people carrying
2:13the flag. Uh I might be the facilitator
2:16that brings people together and this is
2:18something that drives me.
2:20How can I
2:22uh with my network, how can I with my
2:25drive uh connect people and making
2:28people connect for the right reasons
2:31um and when you speak about building a
2:34industry association
2:36I always said from the start
2:39uh if I'm going to join
2:41because I also declined
2:43many times saying no, we will not join
2:46because it's not the right moment or we
2:49don't have time or the circumstances are
2:51not the right. So it was a couple of no
2:54before saying yes. And when saying yes
2:56that okay
2:58I will I will join building
3:02uh the association. It was also of
3:03course cleared with my superiors, my
3:06stakeholders, my colleagues, my team. So
3:09everyone was really aware what was going
3:11to happen.
3:12So this was not just a random thing. Uh
3:15it was something that
3:17uh
3:18was built up over time and and at the
3:20certain moment of course
3:22it happened also in the middle of the
3:24pandemic uh or the beginning of
3:26pandemic. There was a need for
3:29uh
3:29joining forces. There was a need for
3:33or sense of urgency even because we
3:34didn't even know what the future is
3:36going to going to be. Are we going to be
3:38open in 1 month again or is going to be
3:41closed for another
3:432 3 years? No one really knew. It was
3:45the
3:45uh
3:47Everything was a
3:48just a dark place at that moment and
3:51>> I remember 13th of March
3:52>> Yeah.
3:52>> 2020 we shut down everything in India as
3:55well.
3:55>> Yeah. And it in Romania it was in the
3:58middle of March in um
4:00uh
4:01in 2020.
4:02>> Mhm.
4:03>> And that's another story because uh
4:05there was a lot of things happening in
4:06that area in that time frame. However,
4:10uh going back to
4:12how everything in started with Romania
4:14Active, it was more
4:16or less one of the conditions for for me
4:20to join. And I said
4:21the one of the reasons for joining is
4:23that we need to all understand
4:26the
4:27baseline for if this is going to work.
4:29We need to work on a level where it's in
4:31the best interest of everyone.
4:33>> Right.
4:34>> Uh it cannot be of personal interest or
4:37business interest. It needs to be
4:40on that basis. If we cannot elevate
4:42to that level, then it doesn't make
4:44sense to do it.
4:45>> Mhm.
4:46>> We need to elevate in such a level that
4:48we can speak together
4:49>> Mhm.
4:50>> without being looking at each other
4:52what's behind what's the drive behind.
4:54Why does he want to do this? Why does he
4:57What's the agenda behind? And there were
4:59a lot of rumors back then why should
5:01Work Class be there
5:03at that point? Uh
5:05because I'm I'm the CEO of Work Class
5:06and represent Work Class. And they only
5:08saw Work Class being there. What's the
5:10interest of Work Class?
5:12And I said, "Okay,
5:13uh if we should do it it needs to be
5:16on a leadership basis that we take
5:18initiatives that everyone can benefit
5:21from."
5:21>> Right.
5:22>> And that's how it got started. And um
5:26uh the people And also another thing was
5:28that we need to have the most
5:30influential people joining us.
5:32>> Mhm.
5:32>> Uh directly.
5:34So, we reached out and and I spoke to
5:37the
5:39the main suppliers into the industry,
5:41the the ones that were working with the
5:43main operators at that point uh them if
5:46they supported this or not because they
5:48were sitting also on the contacts to the
5:50industry, the operators. Uh
5:53and they were the key.
5:54So, uh
5:56I was not the only one. It It's been a
5:58teamwork. It's been a lot of people
6:00involved. And um
6:03uh I also believe in that uh
6:05in in the way that uh the question is
6:07always free.
6:08It's when people react to the question,
6:10it can become expensive, you know? And
6:13it uh but as long as you can ask the
6:16question, are you willing to join us?
6:17Are you willing to be part of this? Then
6:19my job was to to build the vision and
6:22create the story behind. And the story
6:24was that hey, if if any industry
6:28uh needs it, we needs it now. We need it
6:30now. Yeah.
6:31So, that's how it came about in in in
6:34the discussions were in
6:35in the second part of 2020, and we
6:38managed to incorporate uh the
6:40association in uh
6:42August 2021.
6:44So, it was some pre-work before it was
6:45up and running.
6:46>> You must be very pleased with yourself
6:48in in 4 years time, this is a very
6:52uh I would say is a flourishing
6:54association with a lot of participation
6:57from the industry. I know you're always
6:59striving for more, but not only have you
7:01done, you know, have you been able to do
7:04such a good job of Romania Active, you
7:05also got countries around you to be a
7:07part of this. Like the last time I was
7:09here, we had people from Greece, people
7:11from Norway, people from uh I don't know
7:14what all Czech Republic, they're all
7:16part of this association.
7:17>> Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, yeah. Yeah,
7:19all the neighboring Bulgaria came. It
7:21was all the all the countries around the
7:23neighbors. Greece was there.
7:25>> so this second step, how did this second
7:26step happen?
7:27>> That was initiated by um the Czech
7:30Republic uh
7:32association. Jana, yeah. She's a
7:34super force in this industry.
7:36>> Very passionate.
7:37>> Very passionate, and had she has an
7:39amazing network um in uh in her region
7:42uh and across uh also our industry.
7:45She's been part of this uh
7:47association with Europe Active and she's
7:51also on the board of Europe Active.
7:52>> Yeah.
7:53>> So, this uh
7:53>> She's also elected member of World
7:55Active now.
7:56>> Yeah, yes, you know her that way as
7:58well. So, yeah, she's uh involved in
8:01anything. She has an enormous network.
8:03>> Yeah.
8:03>> Uh
8:04and she reached out to me uh to be part
8:08of her association, local, national
8:11association and be part of this and
8:12speaking in in her event. Uh so, we got
8:15to know each other that way. And then
8:17she created actually the Central Eastern
8:19European Health and Fitness Summit uh
8:22called CHEFS.
8:23And um
8:25I was uh invited to a speaker to speak
8:27about Romania Active and what we
8:29accomplished with Romania Active during
8:31the pandemic.
8:32And also being able to influence a law,
8:35a deductibility law for um
8:38gym membership
8:39>> Mhm.
8:39>> into
8:40to the the fiscal code in
8:43uh in Romania.
8:45So, they wanted me to be a speaker
8:47there. So, I got to learn uh and I got
8:49to know her and that way she already uh
8:53started this Central Eastern European
8:56Health and Fitness Summit.
8:57>> Mhm.
8:57>> So, she was the one initiated this.
8:59Um and she had it twice, 2 years in a
9:02row in Czech Republic in Prague. And
9:05then it
9:07she asked me if I wanted to take over
9:09and do it in in Romania. So, we did it
9:12once in Bucharest where I uh met you and
9:15we you were invited and and um also with
9:19this year we did it in Timișoara. So,
9:21this has become also
9:24something that is is uh
9:26again
9:28you know, how to evolve is through
9:31association of people, collaboration. Um
9:36if you do this, you can accomplish more.
9:38So,
9:39it's not the one man's job. Uh,
9:42it's about planting the seeds and making
9:45the seeds grow. And and now it's
9:47growing. So, this is what I
9:50we are only in the beginning of Romania
9:51Active part.
9:53But we're also only in the beginning of
9:54the evolution of the Romanian market, as
9:57I see it. And also the Central Eastern
9:59Europe market itself, because there's a
10:01lot of potential still.
10:02>> And is there a similarity between the
10:04Central Eastern Europe market and
10:05Romania? Do you think is that was that a
10:07natural
10:09reason why people would collaborate
10:11together? Because you realize there's
10:12similar challenges?
10:14>> There are similar challenges, but they
10:16are also way
10:18different. So, we are
10:20we have
10:22similarities in the challenges, the
10:25severeness of the challenges.
10:27There are market conditions that where
10:29varies quite a lot.
10:31But they are also,
10:33um,
10:34if you look at Central Eastern Europe
10:36versus Western Europe, Western Europe
10:39being more
10:40developed. Everything is more
10:41structured. It's been the industry has
10:43been going on for many many years. There
10:45are associations. There are co-
10:47uh, discussions with authorities in
10:49those markets in in a total different
10:51way. The consumer behavior is different.
10:54The the way you pay memberships,
10:57uh, are different. Uh, you know, direct
11:00debit, uh, memberships that are people
11:03are paying going to the to the gym. Um,
11:07and they keep the membership even if
11:08they're not that active for a while, but
11:10they know that they can come back and
11:12rejoin the gym very quickly.
11:14The consumer behavior here is more stop
11:17and go,
11:18or start and stop.
11:20So, you start and realize I'm not I'm
11:23not using it using it anymore, then I
11:24stop and I jump out, and then I come
11:26back,
11:27uh, whenever I feel like it's time
11:29again.
11:29So, even if I'm going away for 3 weeks
11:32vacation, I better stop and then wait
11:34and and join again. So, it's much more
11:38on and off.
11:39>> So, you would think usage in this market
11:41is slightly higher than
11:42>> The overall usage is much higher.
11:45Yeah, than in the western side. Yeah,
11:48that's clear.
11:49Um
11:50On the other hand, people are also
11:53moving around a little bit more.
11:56But, that's a dynamic. And and
11:58therefore, also me and Yana, we
11:59discussed the
12:01it would be good to have a central
12:02eastern Europe so we can help each
12:04other. Because if we when we go to
12:06Europe active events, it's usually more
12:08discussed on the western on the western
12:11circumstances, right? So, you you we
12:13know what's going on in in Netherlands,
12:15we know what's going on in Germany and
12:17France and UK.
12:19But, the timing
12:21I'm sure that central eastern Europe
12:23will get there at a certain point. Will
12:24take us 5 years, 10 years or 20 years,
12:27remains to be seen.
12:29In some areas, Romania and and central
12:32eastern especially when it comes to
12:34innovation and technology are doing frog
12:36leaps.
12:37Some areas we we in this area are in in
12:42the top.
12:43But, when it comes to some kind of
12:46for example, penetration rates are still
12:49low.
12:49>> You know, 4 5% Romania.
12:51>> In Romania, 5%. We talk about 5%.
12:53In Romania.
12:54And and the potential is huge.
12:56>> Correct.
12:57>> It's about education, it's about also
12:59generations because the ones that are 15
13:01years old today
13:035 years back, they grew up with TikTok,
13:05they grew up with all the social media,
13:07Snapchat and all those things. And in 5
13:10years, they will be a target audience.
13:11They will be 20 years. And what
13:13>> And you already captured that with the
13:14new brand.
13:15>> So, now there is a new brand in town and
13:19specifically targeting a younger
13:21audiences.
13:22>> I'll come to that. I've got that's a
13:24question I have in my mind which
13:26obviously I want to with you. But let
13:29run me through your career Kent. You
13:31started How did you get into the fitness
13:33industry and how did you land up in
13:34Romania? And I I know bits and bobs of
13:37the story, but it'll be great to hear
13:39from you.
13:40>> Uh so, many years ago
13:42I was um
13:44very ambitious sportsman, at least in my
13:47own head.
13:49I wanted to be a hockey professional.
13:51So, I was back in Sweden playing ice
13:53hockey as a part of my of course I went
13:56to school and and
13:58in the evenings and the weekends I was
14:00uh
14:01exercising and doing the trainings to
14:03become a hockey professional. And um
14:06uh
14:07I started to go to the gyms of that
14:09reasons, you know, getting stronger
14:11legs, getting stronger body, being able
14:13to to take a hit and to be faster,
14:15stronger, and all this. But it was in in
14:17the
14:18sports direction.
14:20Um so, everything was sports specific.
14:23Um
14:24So, whenever we had the the off season
14:25of the hockey season, it we all went to
14:28the gym, we all went to do the off
14:29season trainings with
14:31uh wrestling trainings, all plyometric
14:34trainings, all those. So, we trained
14:36everything. So, ice hockey is quite the
14:38diverse uh
14:39>> Very difficult sport to play.
14:40>> Yeah, you need to have cardio,
14:41very high cardio. You need to have
14:43strength because and me not being the
14:45the tallest in the room,
14:47um usually the smallest, I need to be
14:49fast and I need to think fast. And for
14:52me it's was to be, you know, reading the
14:54game, same as
14:56at the same time also
14:58being able to
15:00be a strategist, playing the puck in the
15:03right way.
15:05And started to go to the gym. I think I
15:07was 15 years 15 or 16 when I went to my
15:10first gym membership
15:12in the local gym.
15:13And that turned out to be when I was
15:1618
15:18I got the chance to
15:19to practice with with a senior semi pro
15:24team in in Gothenburg where I grew up.
15:27And then I became 19
15:29and we had summer training
15:32and I became part of that team.
15:36But I was a junior in in in the senior
15:38world and I had to go to the gym a
15:40little bit extra and and work out. And
15:42one of my teammates who was in the
15:44senior team
15:45his wife was a trainer there and worked
15:48at the gym. It was a recently opened
15:50gym. It was a Nautilus gym.
15:53Owned by a person called Mats Mats
15:55Thulin.
15:58And
16:00she was pregnant and they were looking
16:01for a person. I said, "Let's Let's sign
16:03up for to go to an interview." So I went
16:06to an interview, talked to the club
16:07manager there
16:08and I explained my situation and that I
16:11needed something to do when I'm not
16:13in the ice rink. So
16:16I got hired.
16:17I was 19 years old.
16:20And that journey, what they did was that
16:22we they were extremely focused on
16:27the Nautilus equipment and the
16:29functionality of the resistance. You
16:32know the
16:32>> I remember the Nautilus equipment, yeah.
16:33>> Yeah, you remember the story about
16:35Arthur Jones how he developed he wanted
16:38to have the perfect resistant the curve
16:40of the
16:41the wheel that the the chains were
16:44surrounded, right? And in order to get
16:46the perfect resistance, you had to have
16:47a way of also a method. And that method
16:51is also something that Dorian Yates is
16:54also speaking about. So it's a
16:55high-intensity workout. You should uh
16:59make sure that your muscles are
17:01really getting the most out of one or
17:05two sets
17:06and then you don't need to do more. So
17:08all this we were really into the the
17:10specifics how the equipment was built.
17:13And then what we also did the trainings
17:15with was sales. I was very fascinated
17:18but I was 19 years old learn about the
17:20sales
17:21uh
17:22occupation.
17:23>> And that was back in the day sales was
17:25like you had to actually talk to people.
17:26>> Yes.
17:27>> There was no social media to
17:29>> This was in '89.
17:30>> Wow.
17:30>> Yeah, yeah. And
17:32so
17:33uh I I started out as a gym trainer more
17:36or less and also worked in the
17:37reception. Back then we cleaned the the
17:40whole gym. We did everything
17:42in the whole gym. So everything was
17:45on us that worked there as as trainers.
17:48>> Wait.
17:48>> So that was the the start and then that
17:52gave more and more over the years.
17:55At a certain point I was started to
17:56think okay, what what is this all about?
17:58Should I be a trainer all my life? Uh
18:01Uh so I started to educate myself. I
18:03became a personal trainer.
18:05It was back then.
18:06>> What year was this again?
18:07>> Uh
18:081990-1991-1992-1993.
18:12Uh
18:13In 90 I think in '92 it was we also uh
18:17started with uh
18:19Schwinn classes.
18:21>> Spinning.
18:21>> Spinning, yeah.
18:22>> Under Johnny G. So
18:24of course uh took some classes in in
18:27cycling
18:28in that way as well. Uh
18:31and uh
18:3390 94 uh
18:36I traveled to to LA
18:38>> Mhm.
18:38>> to study personal training uh under the
18:41ACE uh
18:43organization.
18:44>> Yep.
18:45>> And
18:46well I was there for 3 months studying
18:48personal trainers how they were working
18:50and took the
18:51you know all the the courses for
18:53>> This was in Sweden?
18:54>> No, this was in LA.
18:55>> Oh, then in America.
18:57Yeah, because that's where
18:58>> Yeah, ACE was.
18:59>> ACE was. Yeah, back in the day you
19:00couldn't even do it anywhere else.
19:01>> No, no, no. You had to travel. Nothing
19:03was online back then.
19:05>> See, life has become so much easier for
19:07people today.
19:07>> connected you don't need to move. You
19:10don't need to fly anywhere. So back then
19:11you need to go take horses and you
19:13needed to to study
19:16the books and everything. And of course
19:18we studied the the trainers in the gyms.
19:20Gold's Gym, of course, but
19:23also with the gym next to Gold's was
19:25called Powerhouse Gym. I went there to
19:28to study some some trainers. I was
19:29really fascinated how they they did
19:31this. And of course the trainers that
19:34had the most clients were the most
19:36well-built also at that point in the in
19:38the '90s.
19:39And one thing
19:41led to the other, but there was a
19:43turning point in '98.
19:45In '98 uh
19:48uh the chain I was working with was
19:51Nautilus Gyms in in Sweden. Uh
19:55We started to hear rumors about that
19:58there was an American company company
19:59coming in.
20:00No one really knew what that meant. Then
20:03in '99 the summer
20:05uh
20:06uh No, sorry. The summer in '98 the
20:09rumors were that at that point the
20:11Nordic chain based in in Norway SATS was
20:16sold. Uh and uh
20:19An American company bought it. It was 24
20:21Fitness.
20:23Back then
20:24the CEO was Mark Mastrov,
20:26if you have heard his name.
20:28>> Yes, I have.
20:29>> Um he was well a legend in in this
20:32industry.
20:34Still still active.
20:36And um
20:38the then
20:40we heard rumors about other chains that
20:43might be sold and so we started to ask
20:45our owner.
20:46And he said he just denied. No, no, no.
20:49We're not going to sell.
20:50And then I got a call.
20:53It was in December. Can you come up to
20:55Stockholm?
20:56I have something to tell you. So, I just
20:58had to jump on a on a train, went to
21:01Stockholm, and we all sat
21:04in in the head office room
21:06uh where we had had a lot of meetings
21:09before
21:10and sitting we were a team of club
21:13managers for each and every eight clubs
21:15that uh
21:16we had operated back then.
21:18Uh being eight clubs we were one of the
21:20largest uh
21:21number of of of chains uh
21:24of clubs in the chain.
21:26Um they only came in, he sat down
21:29and he said "Yes, the rumors are true."
21:33And I go, "What? What rumors?"
21:35Because I I I You'd forgotten about it,
21:37yeah.
21:38Yeah, we have sold uh Nautilus.
21:42And all of us were of course uh
21:44surprised and uh
21:46all kinds of feelings up and down and
21:48and no not knowing what's what's what's
21:50around the corner.
21:51Uh
21:52but what happened was that uh 24 Fitness
21:55they bought SATS. Um they bought
21:58something called Sports Club in
21:59Stockholm back then. They had five big
22:01clubs
22:02uh in in really good locations. Those
22:05five clubs are still uh
22:08on the top 10 list of the most
22:10profitable and most revenue-driven clubs
22:12in the system of SATS.
22:14>> Still late?
22:15>> Still to date, I think.
22:16>> Wow.
22:16>> Uh
22:17at least in the top 20 at least of of
22:19all their clubs they have.
22:21Um
22:21so uh that guy that owned those those
22:24clubs back then uh Per Dogborn his name
22:26is.
22:27Um he was really good at uh
22:30you know, living and breathing the work
22:32of finding the right locations. Uh
22:34>> That's a very difficult job.
22:35>> Yeah, that's a very difficult job. And
22:38and but it's a key. Once you find a
22:39location
22:41uh in our industry and and that location
22:43remains
22:45uh and the infrastructure around it
22:46remains, they are continuing to be
22:48successful for many many many years.
22:50>> I know I had I talked to so many
22:51independents I tell them guys, remember
22:53there is no undo button. You sign a
22:55lease for 20 years
22:56and if you get it wrong you're [ __ ]
22:58because that's what happens. If you get
22:59that wrong so I think that is so
23:01important that decision of, you know,
23:03where you're putting up the gym. And And
23:04every single operator who's scaled, when
23:06I speak to them, this is one of the key
23:08has been to find the right locations at
23:11the right price, the right demographics.
23:14And that's the key because that's
23:15something you can't battle against. It's
23:17very difficult.
23:18>> And And looking back to to my
23:20background, I've been extremely
23:24And this is something I'm extremely
23:25grateful for. I've been lucky to been
23:27working with
23:29very good entrepreneurs and very good
23:31people around me. Uh
23:32I don't want to
23:34run through a list of people, but
23:35everyone I've been working with, I've
23:37been fortunate enough to be able to
23:38learn from all of them.
23:40>> That speaks more about you than about
23:42anybody else.
23:44>> No, but this is also something that I
23:45think is really important because there
23:47are so many people that brings
23:50their, you know, enthusiasm, their
23:52engagement, their know-how. And it's
23:56It's up to me to see where where I can
23:59learn from it. And
24:01I I do have had these experiences with
24:04the entrepreneurs
24:06the owners that I work with. I've been
24:08fortunate enough to work with private
24:11entrepreneur
24:12entrepreneurial owners, American owners.
24:14They were in extremely good in running
24:19this fitness business. I learned
24:21tremendous They were It was only 4
24:23years, but still those 4 years I learned
24:27greatly. They had manuals for
24:28everything. Of course. They always did
24:31benchmarking and best practice for
24:33everything. So, if they were to do
24:35anything related to sales, they hired
24:37the best. Mark Master was a genius in
24:39this.
24:40Whenever he wanted to develop something,
24:42he hired the best people to tell him how
24:44to do it. It was before
24:47what you can learn today on social
24:48media. Yeah. On YouTube or Instagram or
24:51whatever.
24:52>> On a podcast?
24:53>> On a podcast, yeah. But he was extremely
24:55good at making sure that the best of the
24:57best
24:58did the manuals for him.
25:00>> Mhm.
25:00>> So, he hired them. They put together the
25:02manuals, and then of course the internal
25:04team turned it into adapting it to the
25:06reality of what he had, whether it was
25:08sales, retention,
25:11or
25:11just building clubs.
25:13>> Mhm.
25:14So,
25:16now from there where did you jump? What
25:17happened next?
25:19>> Yes, that's a good question. Uh
25:22the journey, as you asked me, the
25:24journey was
25:25of course my background.
25:27I was a club manager in Gothenburg, the
25:30second largest city in Sweden. Uh in '99
25:34I was uh
25:35also on a job interview trying
25:39trying to to see what my future could
25:41be.
25:41Um and um
25:44I applied for a regional position in in
25:46Stockholm and
25:48uh the current CEO of
25:51that company back then
25:53was is was called a mix between the
25:56brands that were put together between
25:58Sats
25:59and Sports Club.
26:01>> Mhm.
26:01>> Uh that were bought
26:02>> the two acquisitions?
26:03>> Exactly.
26:04>> Mhm.
26:04>> Uh the [clears throat] brand name
26:05Nautilus was not there
26:06uh
26:07was not part of the deal when they sold
26:09the Nautilus because
26:11uh Mats had two versions of his
26:14of his operations.
26:15>> Mhm.
26:16>> He had one for
26:17gym and aerobic and the other one for
26:19gym and pool.
26:21>> Mhm.
26:21>> Gym and swim.
26:22>> Mhm.
26:23>> Which is now that part is now called
26:25Actic. So, that was the foundation of
26:27Actic, which is a a large operator with
26:31swimming pools and gyms together.
26:34>> Mhm.
26:34>> Um
26:36I got the job. So, I worked I moved to
26:38from Gothenburg to Stockholm and started
26:41to work in in this Sats Sports Club in
26:43'99.
26:45Uh
26:47uh after then working with Americans and
26:50the American system, we learned greatly.
26:53I had great results Uh working as a
26:55regional, working with sales, working
26:58with implementing all kinds of systems
27:01that we worked with and generating
27:05good good results, growth of members.
27:09I was suddenly after one one year
27:13asked if I wanted to to join
27:16and move to Denmark, Copenhagen.
27:19I'm a person who likes challenges.
27:22You should don't say no to challenge.
27:24But
27:26at that point I just recently moved,
27:29been one year in the new city, the
27:31capital city of Sweden, Stockholm.
27:34I
27:35met my
27:37girlfriend that later became my wife
27:40in that year, so I said no.
27:44Without knowing that how this will
27:45impact my my future.
27:48But it was also one of those moments
27:50where it could have gone either way.
27:53I said no.
27:54But continued to work as a regional and
27:57one year later I got the question if I
27:59wanted to be the CEO of of Sats Sweden.
28:02>> And if I'm not wrong, you were 29 at the
28:05time. You were very young.
28:06>> I was 31.
28:07>> 31, yeah. I remember this.
28:09>> So I was I was very young, super young.
28:13Responsible for
28:15number of clubs, 17 clubs back then. Was
28:20We were the largest chain due to the
28:21acquisitions at that moment. But 17
28:24today is not a big number if you compare
28:26to the all the big chains. But we
28:28started to grow and
28:30that was a journey I I spent with Sats
28:32for another 10 years. So
28:35that was a great great journey.
28:38>> So what did what did people tell you
28:40when you said that, you know, I'm going
28:41to take the role of a CEO at the age of
28:4231?
28:44>> Well
28:45again,
28:46I don't think everyone really thought
28:49that I was ready for this.
28:51>> Mhm.
28:51>> We were under the system back then
28:54of the American ownership.
28:56>> Mhm.
28:56>> Um
28:57They had a lot of support. They had a
29:00lot of people around you that you had to
29:02report to.
29:03>> Mhm.
29:03>> Um I got
29:06different types of um
29:08positions that I had to send reports to
29:10every week.
29:11>> Mhm.
29:11>> Um it was a it was a school for me.
29:14>> Mhm.
29:14>> It was an educational journey.
29:16>> Mhm.
29:16>> Um but of course
29:18I was not I was not the CEO per se back
29:21then. Didn't have any experience.
29:24So it was my first CEO job. Um and and
29:28was it a CEO job or is it a managing
29:30director job? Most likely more like a
29:32managing director job.
29:34>> Yeah.
29:34>> I was legally responsible of course, but
29:36we had a group of companies. That's why
29:38it was
29:39somehow mentioned as a CEO of that. But
29:42then we grew the company over the period
29:45of years through green fields and
29:47acquisitions.
29:48Um Americans um
29:51later on sold. We made a management
29:53buyout together with Nordic Capital, one
29:55of the largest private equity funds in
29:57in the in the region of the Nordics.
30:00And that was a journey that went on for
30:03another four years. So
30:05Um yes, a lot of things happened during
30:07that period.
30:09>> So So two things can one is for audience
30:13for the audience. What's a management
30:16buyout?
30:17>> A management buyout is when the
30:19management team together with a in that
30:22specific um
30:26area is buying out the company from the
30:29the owner. So the management together
30:31with a
30:32finance
30:33or an investor.
30:35>> So so example a private equity firm
30:37and the management team go back to the
30:39shareholders and say we want to buy you
30:41out and we'll run this.
30:43And shareholders get their value because
30:44they are anyways not running it.
30:46>> But this was it was not
30:49something I was initiated by. It was
30:52something that was initiated by the
30:54management team and the management of
30:58the Nordic group. I was
31:01the managing director of Sats in Sweden
31:04and this was managed by the Norwegian
31:06office back then.
31:09So that was my first interaction with
31:11the private equity company.
31:13And
31:14yeah.
31:15That was
31:16>> How do you describe your first
31:17interaction with private equity? What
31:19were your learnings?
31:20>> My learning was that one of the I think
31:22this story tells a lot and one of the
31:24managing director back then
31:27um
31:28was a very smart guy. Um
31:31one of the first build building the
31:33private equity
31:35environment in in
31:37Sweden and the Nordics.
31:39He had a very good speech to us as
31:41people that were we were about to invest
31:43in the company and he said like this
31:46um
31:48we want you to invest in this company
31:52as much as you think you you you're able
31:56to do but not more than you
31:59that you're willing to wake up 1 hour
32:01before than you ever did before
32:04and go home 1 hour later
32:06than you ever did before.
32:08So you should not invest more or less
32:11than
32:13this is being done
32:14by yourself. So what actually what he
32:16asked for it was a
32:18an engagement that if I could put in
32:20whatever money it was back then
32:23it should not be like I took everything
32:25I had and then I would feel like I I you
32:27know
32:28>> I would stretch myself and yeah yeah
32:29yeah.
32:29>> And and even if I tried to wake up 5
32:31hours before and work 5 hours more or 10
32:34hours more it would not be for the right
32:36reasons.
32:37But if I were to put enough money, that
32:40won't won't
32:41would make me
32:43also invest in the in the company with
32:46time, effort, and engagement.
32:48That said a million.
32:50It it said a lot. And
32:53it actually happened because all of us
32:55were very engaged. And we worked and we
32:57contribute and they contribute and there
33:00was a good interaction between investor
33:02and management.
33:03>> So, your journey as when you just took
33:06on the role of managing director and the
33:08CEO, you'd never done this before. What
33:11were your top two, three challenges that
33:12you faced, you know, just in a
33:14completely different role, completely
33:16different level of engagement that you
33:17need to have, you know, you're talking
33:19to shareholders, you're talking to
33:20people, talking about the return, which
33:22is very different from a job which is
33:24not at The top job is always different
33:26from the
33:27you know, so it's like they say
33:29the president of America and the vice
33:31president are two completely different
33:33jobs. They They may share the job title,
33:36you know, where it's it says president,
33:37but they're different jobs. So, what
33:39were your top challenges?
33:40>> First and foremost, I it's always starts
33:42with the team.
33:43So, [clears throat]
33:44one challenge is to to
33:46put together the team,
33:47uh put the right people in place, and uh
33:51this is was my number one priority to
33:53have the right people uh to have a
33:55winning team, to have the right people
33:57in the right positions.
33:59>> So, what was the process of hiring
34:00people?
34:01>> So, that that process was of course
34:03um very dynamic because
34:06uh let me just give you a your context.
34:08I grew up, my first job
34:10was when when I enter into position um
34:15and Americans, they came from far away
34:18as investors. They bought four different
34:22companies that they more or less bought
34:24in within 1 year.
34:26And that became a cultural war, an
34:29organizational war,
34:31meaning there there were people that
34:34worked in different companies that were
34:36very loyal to their owners, which was an
34:39entrepreneur.
34:40>> Mhm.
34:40>> And sitting in the same room discussing
34:42the same things,
34:43they were loyal to the owner, not to the
34:45company.
34:45>> Mhm.
34:46>> So, just because you were from one
34:50organization,
34:52you didn't really like the other
34:54organization.
34:54>> Mhm.
34:55>> It was not like you just
34:57became friends.
34:58>> Yeah.
34:58>> Um
34:59So, it was a lot of uh organizational
35:03let's say wars, challenges.
35:05>> But you had four different cultures.
35:06>> Four different cultures uh built on four
35:08different ways. You had the the the guys
35:10coming from sports club. They were hired
35:12by
35:14uh the organization based on their
35:15social skills, because they were, let's
35:18say, the
35:19um
35:21uh
35:21the travel guides of the the company.
35:24They knew everything. They were
35:25entertainers. They they had a lot of
35:27group fitness. They were the best on
35:28group fitness.
35:30A lot of them were extroverts.
35:31>> Mhm.
35:32>> Okay?
35:32Then, the ones from Sats came from um
35:35uh they were hired by education, and
35:38they were all
35:39uh on uh scholarships and all had
35:42degrees in different ways. Um and then
35:45you had the Nautilus that were very
35:46indoctrinated into the
35:48uh exercise physiology and the how the
35:51equipment should be.
35:52>> Mhm.
35:53>> Putting them together was not like um
35:55perfect match.
35:56>> Correct.
35:57>> So, that was uh
35:58So, when we went out in the
36:00organization, everyone was uh dis-
36:02dissatisfied, unhappy, because lack of
36:05information, because they were they were
36:08Whenever you lacked information, they
36:10went to the the owner to speak.
36:12>> Mhm.
36:13>> Now, there was we there was a need for
36:15structure. There was a need for
36:16organizational alignment.
36:18>> Mhm.
36:19>> And that became
36:20uh
36:21a huge uh challenge.
36:23>> Mhm.
36:23>> So, building the team was number one.
36:25>> Mhm.
36:25>> Number two
36:27was of course to to have something
36:30to connect everyone with.
36:32>> Mhm.
36:32>> Uh, you know, making the people feeling
36:34that they belonged into to the culture.
36:39So, how do we build a culture on this on
36:41top of this?
36:42So, we started to have conferences.
36:45>> Mhm.
36:45>> Uh, we call them inspirational days.
36:47>> Do Did you find Kent, one of
36:49[clears throat] the things that happens
36:50in typical mergers and acquisitions is
36:52people in middle get kind of
36:54it's like
36:55you know, the mix becomes so potent that
36:58you know, you got extremely different
37:00profiles, extremely different visions.
37:02And now you're working as a single
37:03organization. Did you find it very
37:05difficult to handle people who come from
37:08different value sets? And how did you
37:09make sure that all of them came on the
37:11same page? That entire process, what did
37:13you go through?
37:14>> Very good question because as you said,
37:16I've been part of a lot of acquisitions
37:18and some of them when we did the due
37:21diligence, financially things can look
37:23perfect.
37:24>> Mhm.
37:24>> Uh, everything when you do the due
37:26diligence uh, legal, financial,
37:30everything match. But then what a lot of
37:33people forget to do the operational and
37:35organizational due diligence. What is
37:38the culture?
37:39>> Mhm.
37:39>> Some of the companies we bought, they
37:42were
37:43building the culture of being the
37:45challenger, meaning we don't like the
37:48leader of the market.
37:49>> Mhm.
37:49>> So, we want to we want to do everything
37:52to beat the
37:53the the leader.
37:54>> Mhm.
37:54>> So, as a challenger you want to chase
37:56the leader. You want to to
37:58um
38:00miscredit the leader.
38:01>> Right.
38:02>> So, um
38:03how do we get those people to
38:06because when they hear the news that
38:07suddenly the the market leader bought
38:09them but you were our enemy. How should
38:12we work with you?
38:13>> Oh, this is a difficult one.
38:14>> So, some people will leave
38:17organically.
38:18>> Yeah.
38:18>> They just don't like it. They will You
38:20cannot
38:21make them stay.
38:22>> Correct.
38:22>> So, that needs to happen. Just need to
38:24happen by
38:25natural organic
38:27>> And did you lose a lot of people in the
38:28process?
38:30>> It happens, but not that many.
38:31>> Mhm.
38:32>> But then again, you need to go back to
38:33the core. Why did you start? Why are you
38:35working in this company?
38:37>> Mhm.
38:38>> And then then you make them explain it
38:40to you. And they explain why do they
38:41work here. I like the people. I like to
38:43work and interact with the members. Yes,
38:46but that's exactly what we do.
38:48>> Mhm.
38:48>> That's the core of our industry.
38:50>> Mhm.
38:50>> So, going back to the core because
38:52that's
38:53what unites us.
38:55Again.
38:55>> Mhm.
38:55>> And going back to values.
38:57What are the values that would like you
38:59to stay?
39:00>> Mhm.
39:00>> Yeah, but I don't like this performance
39:03organization or performance culture.
39:05>> Mhm.
39:06>> But what is performance culture?
39:07>> Mhm.
39:08>> Really? Performance is measuring and
39:10development. You like to learn and
39:12develop? Yeah, yeah, it's it's nice.
39:14>> Mhm.
39:15>> I like it. I want to grow.
39:17Yeah, that's what it's all about.
39:19>> Yeah.
39:19>> Trying to bridge and and adapt the
39:23the communication so people, you know,
39:26not everyone
39:28absorbs the same message
39:31directly. You need to talk to some
39:32people maybe more than others.
39:34>> Mhm.
39:35>> Maybe you need to explain differently to
39:36to people, but you need to go back to
39:38the core. And what is this industry all
39:40about?
39:40>> Mhm.
39:41>> It's about people. It's about how we
39:43take care of people. It's about how we
39:46help people change. You know, our
39:48industry's biggest challenge
39:50>> Mhm.
39:50>> is not to actually sell a membership.
39:52>> Mhm.
39:52>> Is to make the behavioral change
39:55so that member would like to stay
39:57active.
39:58>> Mhm.
39:59>> You know, you paying the membership is
40:00one thing, but being an physically
40:02active person
40:04>> Correct.
40:04>> exercising on a regular basis, that's
40:06the hard part.
40:09>> And how do you get people to do that?
40:11>> That's a very the million dollar
40:13question, right?
40:14>> We all we all struggling to do that,
40:15right?
40:15>> We all struggle to do this. Uh
40:17>> But but what's the role of leadership in
40:19that? You know, in in and if you look at
40:22if you look at the CEOs of companies,
40:23like I was, you know, today when we were
40:25on the panel, I said, you know, I think
40:27CEOs have
40:29a very easy and a difficult job. It's
40:30such a dichotomy. Because
40:34you're paid to take two or three
40:36really good decisions
40:38based on limited data or whatever data
40:40you've got. In hindsight, you can always
40:42connect the dots backwards.
40:45But at the moment when you're taking a
40:46decision, you're taking a decision with
40:48whatever
40:49information you've got, and then the
40:50organization follows. And then you as a
40:53leader are building culture.
40:55And culture always flows
40:57bottom down. It's never It's top down.
41:00It's never It's not bottom up. So, if
41:02the leader is an [ __ ] your company's
41:04screwed because everybody in the
41:06organization sees that's what I need to
41:08ape. Right? I'm not building a good
41:10culture. So, when you especially when
41:12you get these four organizations to work
41:14together,
41:15initially, it's
41:17everybody is very very defensive.
41:20Most people are thinking, I'm going to
41:22[ __ ] lose my job.
41:23>> Sure.
41:24>> Right?
41:24>> But you need to communicate.
41:26>> Right. So, so this is very important,
41:29what you just said now,
41:30i- is is the backbone of any merger and
41:34acquisition, communication.
41:37Run me through if
41:39if I have just sold my company or I'm
41:41planning to do this and merge with
41:43somebody, how do I manage this well if
41:45I'm going to be the leadership position?
41:48>> So, uh what I believe is is one of the
41:50foundations will be that first and
41:53foremost, you need to
41:55set the expectations properly.
41:57>> Mhm.
41:57>> You need to explain the vision.
42:00>> Mhm.
42:00>> Sometimes you need to also visualize the
42:03and make try to uh compare the vision,
42:05what it means.
42:05>> Mhm.
42:06>> You cannot just tell it. You need to
42:08also make sure that people can see it.
42:10>> Mhm.
42:10>> With pictures, with uh maybe benchmark,
42:14you know, we are looking to be like
42:16this organization. We look to be like uh
42:19how we can uh resemble to something. So,
42:22there is a connection emotionally,
42:25intelligently,
42:27intellectually, and and
42:29and again
42:30making sure that
42:32people understand.
42:34So, the information is number one, as I
42:36say. Then, involve people.
42:38Ask them things. You know, make sure
42:40that they get it.
42:42Do they understand? How can they
42:44contribute? How can they see their role
42:46in this? Because if you just speak to
42:48them uh
42:49and you don't get any feedback back, you
42:51need to have information uh systems for
42:54this or meetings for this or
42:57one-on-ones, so you you understand what
42:59where they are.
43:00>> Perspective.
43:01>> Yeah. Leadership I think is is
43:04one of the most difficult things because
43:06unless you
43:08uh
43:09know where they are
43:10>> Yeah.
43:10>> you can never meet them.
43:12>> Mhm.
43:13>> You know, if
43:14uh if if I know that someone is at a
43:17certain stage, certain position where
43:20they have a certain opinion if I
43:23understand why they have that opinion,
43:25why they are reacting like they are
43:27maybe I can explain it and then move
43:29them somewhere.
43:30>> Mhm.
43:30>> But if I don't, I just see them that
43:32they they they don't have the same
43:34opinion as me.
43:35>> Mhm.
43:35>> And then we are in a conflict.
43:37>> Mhm.
43:37>> If I don't want to try to understand and
43:39I don't want cannot involve that person
43:41to understand what I'm talking about
43:43>> Mhm.
43:43>> then we'll never meet.
43:44>> Mhm. Mhm.
43:46>> But so, there's no I don't think it's a
43:48formula that convinces everyone.
43:50>> Correct, obviously.
43:51>> So, you need to also be ready to
43:54understand that in order to create a
43:56team, you need to have the people
43:58that joins you for the right reasons.
44:00>> Correct.
44:01>> If you don't right people on the bus.
44:03>> Yeah, and I think sometimes it's not
44:05it's not about person being good or bad.
44:07It's just about being in the right.
44:10You may not be the best for this
44:11organization.
44:13You may be the best person.
44:14You know, but you may not be the best
44:16for this organization because of
44:17multiple reasons. I don't think people
44:18appreciate that enough. You know, when
44:20you tell somebody that, you know,
44:22culturally you don't align, people don't
44:23understand. People just think it's an
44:24excuse, but it's a reality. When you
44:26culturally don't align, you don't align.
44:28Can't use be spoke about the
44:29communication, but I think,
44:31you know, one of the theories we have in
44:33HR, which is about forming storming
44:35storming, norming, performing. So, as we
44:37grow in an organization, for you to be a
44:39performing organization, you will
44:40initially have a lot of issues. As long
44:42as what you mentioned, you can
44:43communicate well.
44:45You know, you can get the organization
44:46to start performing. So, in this
44:49transition of four organizations,
44:52there must have been a phase where
44:53initially you formed your teams and then
44:55there there must have been lots of
44:56differences of opinion between people.
44:59So, how long did it take for you to
45:01stabilize the organization when you
45:03said, "Yes, now I have a dream team. We
45:06can explode."
45:07>> So,
45:09try to just explain this fairly short.
45:13As I
45:14as I told you before,
45:16I like to benchmark. I like to make sure
45:19that finding the best practice and then
45:21learn from it and move forward.
45:24And one of the things being in this
45:27turmoil, chaos,
45:29at that point, I read a story about
45:31Microsoft. Microsoft back then in
45:35late '90s and early 2000,
45:41they were
45:42chased by the employees because they had
45:44such a dominant position, so they became
45:46a lot of lawsuits about mistreatments
45:49and things. So, what they had to do was
45:52to
45:53find a way to
45:55get all their employees to be happy. And
45:57and they found an organization that was
46:01called Best place to work.
46:03>> Yes.
46:04>> Good great place to work, sorry.
46:06>> to work, yeah.
46:06>> Great place to work. That was an NGO
46:08that they started to
46:10fund.
46:11>> Yeah.
46:11>> Bill Gates started to fund it wherever
46:13they had offices. He made sure that they
46:15had awesome office.
46:17>> Yeah.
46:18>> And that office was actually started up
46:21in also in Stockholm.
46:23So I read about it and I read that they
46:25had these competitions where they did
46:27surveys about their the cultures and
46:29everything.
46:30So I went to my management at my HR
46:32actually and then my man my management
46:34team, I have an idea. Let's join this
46:38competition.
46:40And it was a what? Why? No. Why? We are
46:42we're going to be the worst. And I said,
46:44"Exactly.
46:45That's why we should be there."
46:48So we joined.
46:49Uh and and what happened was that we
46:51joined
46:52and I came in the same room as
46:54Microsoft.
46:55I would never be in the same room by
46:57calling Microsoft back then because they
46:58would know, "Who are you?"
46:59>> Yeah.
47:00>> And we had all other IKEA, we had big
47:04companies
47:05that was in that room and their HR and
47:07managers were there sharing ideas on why
47:10they are building their culture and they
47:12wanted to show how good they were. So
47:14they were sharing their ideas.
47:17So first year we were ranked really
47:18poorly.
47:20Second year
47:21we we took all those ideas, started to
47:23work on them.
47:24At the same time we started to do these
47:26inspirational days. So we had a like a
47:28big meeting inspiring people with
47:31speeches and everything and we started
47:33also to have
47:35monthly kick-offs.
47:36So we had meetings with whole company
47:40on a monthly basis with a big bang every
47:43year to celebrate the year that was to
47:46to also look forward for the future.
47:49And those combinations of three things
47:51and and how to benchmark and get
47:53collaborate with
47:55with with
47:56leading successful organizations and
47:59learn from them.
48:01Suddenly we made a frog leap. Uh
48:03so after 3 years in that competition,
48:06competition, became in third.
48:08>> Wow.
48:09>> As a No one No gym business would ever
48:12think about joining such a competition.
48:15>> Yeah.
48:16>> So that was an achievement.
48:18>> Wow.
48:18>> And that was the turning point.
48:20>> For for the culture to become united.
48:23>> And this was at SATS?
48:25>> That was at SATS. I I then
48:27worked with SATS until 2010.
48:30Decided to I was
48:33at group level, I was COO for 1 and 1/2
48:36years.
48:37I decided to I wanted to do something
48:39new.
48:40So I went on my my own.
48:42Started my own company and became a
48:45advisor to the industry and advised on
48:48some
48:49uh
48:51mergers and acquisition deals.
48:54Uh
48:54and and um
48:56from there
48:58during my my my tenure in in SATS we we
49:02bought a lot of
49:04companies and and organizations and and
49:07gyms.
49:08One of those groups were
49:10five World Class gyms that we bought in
49:12Stockholm.
49:13>> Ah.
49:15>> And and
49:16the the two owners that worked with this
49:19with this organization, one started out
49:22to to build another gym chain
49:25>> Mhm.
49:25>> in Sweden
49:26called Member 24.
49:28And his partner, he continued working
49:31with
49:31World Class internationally.
49:34Uh his name is Milan Mirkovic. And he
49:38was in
49:40Serbia, Croatia, Romania in that area
49:43working.
49:44And picked up an opportunity where he
49:47could do a management buyout with a
49:49private equity from Poland in 2014 I it
49:53was made.
49:54Uh
49:56having to to got to know them both uh
49:59I was called at that certain point and
50:01asked if I could come down and look to
50:03see what's going on in Romania.
50:05>> Mhm.
50:05>> So in 2014 I was invited to look around.
50:10And Milan showed me around and it was uh
50:13I would say wow, this is uh
50:15>> And how many worlds class gyms did you
50:16have that time in Romania?
50:17>> In Romania at that point I think there
50:19were around 17.
50:20>> Okay.
50:21>> Something in that direction.
50:22>> Yeah.
50:22>> Uh
50:25so uh
50:27No, it was actually less uh at that
50:29point. It became uh
50:31later on 17. However,
50:34um
50:36I started out to to then be an advisor
50:38to the to the board the management board
50:41and uh the investor uh Resource Partners
50:45at that point.
50:46>> Mhm.
50:47>> So 2015 and 2016 I uh supported the team
50:52with various uh
50:54projects and tasks to to help them to
50:56grow and consolidate the growth they
50:58had.
50:58>> Mhm.
50:59>> And uh in in the late part of 2016 I was
51:02asked by the the owners if I wanted to
51:04step in to be the CEO and help them to
51:07merge and consolidate the growth.
51:09>> ah [ __ ] again. I have to do this
51:11again is it is that what you thought?
51:13>> Uh
51:13little bit in that direction. Of course
51:15I thought okay, but um no, I said no
51:19actually the
51:20first two three times.
51:22Uh
51:22seems to be a a pattern. [laughter]
51:25But um
51:27they insisted and asked me okay, but uh
51:29uh
51:30we have a plan. We're going to we're
51:32going to build the company and sell it
51:33in two and a half years.
51:34>> Mhm.
51:35>> So I was thinking okay, two and a half
51:37years I can do it.
51:38>> Mhm.
51:39>> Uh
51:40so I joined and um
51:42>> Which year is this? 2000?
51:44>> 2000 late 2016. So
51:472000 2017 everything is
51:50started to go really well.
51:5218 also, and the plan was then to sell
51:54in 19.
51:55And in early 19 we started the process
51:58of preparing
52:00to to make an exit.
52:03Summer came.
52:05A bit
52:09I don't know if it was a challenging
52:10period or how it was, but
52:13it didn't move fast. And then when the
52:14autumn came it became also a bit
52:17negotiations with a couple of investors
52:20that were interested.
52:21And they prolonged they wanted more time
52:23to you know investigate etc.
52:26Late
52:28November rumors were about something's
52:30going on in China.
52:31>> China, yeah, yeah.
52:32>> No, don't worry. Not going to happen in
52:35in Europe anything. You know, China is
52:37far away.
52:37>> Yeah.
52:38>> And then everyone knows what happened in
52:40in
52:41in early part of
52:43in January 2020 we did our best month
52:46ever until that point.
52:48February became very strange, very
52:51challenging, but
52:53fairly okay.
52:54And then March everything was closed.
52:57That was pandemic.
52:59>> Wow, what what happened next?
53:02>> After that of course we were
53:04>> At this point all of you guys have taken
53:06out their popcorns. Now this is
53:07interesting, but come on.
53:09>> No, no, no, no. It was not
53:11it was almost but not that
53:14everything was closed down. Everything
53:15was shut down.
53:17And we just needed had to figure out
53:19what's going on now. What do we do?
53:21Of course we had to
53:23reduce cost
53:25talk to all the landlords
53:27discuss
53:28and negotiate all the leases.
53:30And then started to think what what
53:34should we do? We didn't know how long
53:35this will take. All the pools were
53:37closed.
53:38>> And the buy orders are obviously out of
53:39the window. That's gone.
53:40>> Yes, that was
53:41>> That deal is gone down.
53:42>> Yeah, yeah.
53:42>> So all the effort that you put for the
53:44year is gone now, down the drain.
53:45>> Yes.
53:46>> Wow.
53:47>> Anyway, now the survival was to to
53:49discuss with the banks,
53:51talk to them, see could we get loans
53:53from
53:54the good part in this. We had one bank.
53:58We work with the one bank in a really
54:00good way for many years. 1 year before
54:04um
54:05I initiated and proposed to the board
54:08that we should have two banks and not
54:09just sit with one. So, I introduced So,
54:12we had actually two banks working with.
54:15Uh it was BT and Raiffeisen.
54:17>> Mhm.
54:18>> And entering into this situation, it it
54:21actually helped us because uh if one
54:24bank was supportive, the other bank
54:25didn't want to look like they were not.
54:27So, they started to support
54:29>> each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
54:29>> compete a little bit. But, only to a
54:32certain extent. Then,
54:35we we being close to the banks, they
54:37also recommended us to
54:39to apply for a state-backed
54:42back loan. And they it was a state bank.
54:45In this case, it's called Exim. They had
54:47a program for large companies. So, we
54:49applied for it.
54:51And um
54:52those processes are long. So, it took us
54:549 months to
54:56discuss what we should provide,
54:58information, contracts, huge amount of
55:01paperwork. But, uh
55:04just we didn't know it back then, but we
55:06signed it in February, in middle of
55:08February.
55:10Yeah, no, early February, in
55:11mid-February in 2021, they closed us
55:14down for a month.
55:15So, if we wouldn't have signed that
55:18loan agreement, we would have been over
55:20and out.
55:20>> Wow.
55:21>> So, that was close.
55:23Uh so, even in that the dark period,
55:25there were some lights in the tunnel
55:28showing us signs that guys, keep going
55:31because something is going to be better.
55:34And then in 2022, in in July, we managed
55:37to be be
55:39part of of uh
55:41that our owner
55:43back then,
55:44uh they they managed to exit and
55:47um we have a new owner now.
55:49>> Yeah.
55:49>> Because continue to to invest in the
55:51company.
55:51>> They they run a different business,
55:53Indian origin, if I'm not wrong. Yeah.
55:55>> Yes, Indian origin.
55:56>> Yeah.
55:56>> Yes.
55:56>> Yeah.
55:57>> Very nice.
55:57>> Yeah.
55:58>> And and uh
56:00now we have uh various
56:02very strong and very engaged uh owner
56:05and uh supporting our our journey going
56:09forward.
56:09>> So, where do you see World Active going
56:12from here? Uh where do you see
56:14uh World Class gyms in terms of
56:17uh
56:18you know, also diversifying in a way.
56:20You've got another brand, which is
56:22completely different uh customer,
56:24completely different ICP.
56:26Uh what was the thought behind that?
56:28>> So, the idea is that uh it's very
56:30difficult for one brand to cover cover
56:32everything.
56:33Uh age groups, uh interests, etc.
56:36Services.
56:38So, the idea is that going from one
56:39brand strategy to a two brand strategy
56:42is to cover different segments of the
56:44market.
56:45So, World Class uh has a clear audience
56:49that has been for many many years. Now,
56:51we have uh 82,000 plus uh members.
56:54>> Wow.
56:54>> And um
56:56it's mostly people that are
56:58>> across how many sites, Kent? 82,000
57:00across how many sites? 40?
57:02>> 47.
57:02>> 47 sites.
57:03>> Okay. And and 27 of them are with the
57:06semi-Olympic swimming pools.
57:08>> Nice.
57:09>> So, um the idea is that the World Class
57:12audience is a very strong audience with
57:14a very clear uh profile.
57:17>> Mhm.
57:17>> It's mid to high income.
57:19>> Mhm.
57:20>> It's uh
57:22high income uh so, high educational
57:24level.
57:25>> Mhm.
57:25>> And a clear interest in a healthy
57:27lifestyle.
57:28>> Mhm.
57:29>> That being said,
57:30um
57:31you know, also the trends that uh the
57:33TikTok generation,
57:35all the young people they are looking
57:37for the trends that happening in the
57:39market. It's difficult to cater
57:41everything within one place. So, opening
57:45and starting a new brand that is more uh
57:49accessible uh more um
57:52let's say appealing to the younger
57:54audience in all kinds of ways.
57:56Um using
57:58technology, using automatization, face
58:01recognition, digitalization, apps making
58:05sure that they have an easy way to buy
58:07membership, easy way to enter, and easy
58:10way to meet their friends there, making
58:12it a a small community. So, we are
58:14building clubs in in that direction now
58:17under a different brand. It's called
58:18Bfit.
58:19So, the organization is split in now.
58:21So,
58:22we have
58:23a certain
58:25uh
58:25organization for Bfit.
58:27And then we have another organization
58:29for World Class.
58:31>> Right. But, you will obviously align in
58:33a lot of ways where you can share best
58:35practices in
58:35>> We have the same owner, of course.
58:38Yeah. So, so the ownership is the same
58:40and there are of course a lot of things
58:42that we can learn from each other
58:44doing this.
58:45Um and that's the strength.
58:47But,
58:49we will not stop there.
58:50So, having the going from one brand to
58:53two brands is also the only the start.
58:56So, the the vision is to have a
58:58multi-brand
58:59group
59:00under the umbrella of health,
59:05wellness,
59:06fitness,
59:07and longevity.
59:09>> Right.
59:10>> So, all those areas are what we are now
59:12looking into see so we can cater to a
59:14much larger audience,
59:16but with more specific
59:18services.
59:20>> Can you define what do
59:23What kind of trainers do you look for if
59:25I want to join World Class as a trainer,
59:28what do you look for?
59:30>> So, we look for trainers that are of
59:32course very passionate about the the
59:34industry and what they are doing. That's
59:36number one. The criteria is of course
59:37also you need to have a a good level of
59:40education as a background. Uh
59:43but we are looking also for people that
59:45uh also can
59:47uh
59:48by nature, by themselves, educate them
59:50in parallel to make sure that they can
59:53cater for the trends that are coming.
59:55So, we are trying to be from World Class
59:57perspective an innovator and be the one
1:00:00driving certain new concepts like uh
1:00:04uh now we are introducing Hyrox.
1:00:06So, our ambition is to implement Hyrox
1:00:08in as uh
1:00:10many clubs where we can fit this in, for
1:00:13example.
1:00:14Then we also now also implementing more
1:00:16services that are being added on as an
1:00:18added value for the members and the
1:00:20memberships.
1:00:21>> You also have an academy if I'm not
1:00:22wrong.
1:00:22>> We also have an an academy.
1:00:24>> Move on.
1:00:25>> It's called Move On. Yeah. And they are
1:00:27educating the trainers, personal
1:00:29trainers,
1:00:30uh yoga instructors, group fitness
1:00:33instructors, all the also swimming
1:00:35instructors. So, they have all the
1:00:37categories uh that and services that we
1:00:40we are also catering in our gyms.
1:00:43>> And can do you see now also Move On as
1:00:46an academy to support World Class and
1:00:49also Be Fit? Is that going to become an
1:00:51umbrella academy for everybody?
1:00:52>> Uh that of course it it uh it's
1:00:55something that
1:00:56it is in our portfolio and they all of
1:00:58course they are educating people for the
1:01:00whole industry and also of course the
1:01:02the two brands that we are working with.
1:01:04>> When you talk about whole industry, one
1:01:05of the big achievements you've had is
1:01:07tax reduction for for for people who
1:01:10take a gym membership. Could you run us
1:01:11through the process and what is it? I I
1:01:13don't know if people even know this in
1:01:15Romania that they can get a tax
1:01:17deduction on on on on gym memberships.
1:01:20So, what is that and if you could
1:01:22explain it?
1:01:23>> So, uh today in the medical side of
1:01:27where you can today have a health
1:01:29insurance
1:01:31deductibility. So, if the company are
1:01:34paying for your services for health
1:01:37insurance, you can have a health
1:01:38insurance membership or medical
1:01:42membership where you can get a
1:01:44deductibility from.
1:01:46And that's up to around
1:01:494 or 500 EUR
1:01:50per employee per year.
1:01:53We just went in the same direction. So,
1:01:58the deductibility for gym memberships
1:02:01are present in certain markets. You have
1:02:03it in the Nordics in Sweden for example,
1:02:05you have it in
1:02:06in
1:02:07Poland. There are some other markets
1:02:10that
1:02:11do have this.
1:02:12So,
1:02:13what it was we worked in order to
1:02:15implement it and we got it approved now
1:02:17as a specific law under the fiscal code
1:02:21where
1:02:23the employer
1:02:24the company they can offer you as an
1:02:27employee
1:02:29to to use this
1:02:31budget or this amount
1:02:33as a deduction on the gym membership. We
1:02:36implemented as 400 EUR per per employee
1:02:39per year. But in 2024
1:02:42when also the VAT went from 5% to 19%
1:02:46they reduced this. So, not only that the
1:02:49pandemic was a challenge.
1:02:5224 was also a challenging year
1:02:55on these aspects.
1:02:57What we are doing now is we're trying to
1:02:59discuss and talk and and make sure that
1:03:02the authorities understand that it's
1:03:03something good for the authorities if
1:03:06they increase because the investment is
1:03:08on the company.
1:03:10And then
1:03:11when the companies are investing in
1:03:13their employees and they get healthy and
1:03:15they are using the going to the gym,
1:03:17they are less burden on the health care
1:03:19system.
1:03:19>> Correct.
1:03:20>> So they will save cost in the budget.
1:03:22The idea was to make sure that we get
1:03:25this message out and and explain all the
1:03:28benefits of our industry that exercise
1:03:30is actually the best medicine for
1:03:32for employees and make them less
1:03:36stressed and also therefore also having
1:03:37less absentee's
1:03:40days in in during the year. And also the
1:03:42employ the employer will save cost
1:03:45to have a healthy employee.
1:03:46>> Yeah, and this is very difficult job,
1:03:48you know, as a as an association to go
1:03:50and talk to the government. Usually
1:03:52government doesn't listen to anybody and
1:03:53this is not Romania, this is everywhere
1:03:55in the world. You have to talk to the
1:03:57government and make them believe because
1:03:58everybody's talking to them. You can't
1:04:00blame the government. At the end of the
1:04:01day everybody's knocking on their door
1:04:02giving
1:04:03>> And also the government is changing
1:04:04people all the time.
1:04:05It's an election and there are new
1:04:07people there.
1:04:08And and yes, it sounds like I'm working
1:04:11only with these type of things, but
1:04:13this has been
1:04:14been a
1:04:16side projects that has been
1:04:18a
1:04:19again
1:04:22collaboration with a lot of people.
1:04:24So I do believe in multi-channel
1:04:26approach. So you cannot only go to one
1:04:30a
1:04:31receiver of the information. You need to
1:04:33discuss with a lot of people.
1:04:34>> Correct.
1:04:35>> And what we have done is that we have
1:04:37engaged different people from the
1:04:40Romania Active Association. But also the
1:04:43community of World Class then to ask how
1:04:46do we talk to, who do we talk to, who do
1:04:48we send newsletters to, who do we
1:04:50explain to
1:04:51in a mix of everything, also sending
1:04:54press releases,
1:04:56information to the media.
1:04:58So trying to reach the
1:05:00the same result by the same information
1:05:04but through a lot of different channels.
1:05:06>> Right.
1:05:07So Kent, what should
1:05:09if I'm an independent gym owner in
1:05:10Romania,
1:05:12Uh should I join Romania Active? What's
1:05:14the reason? And because ideally you
1:05:16would want every single gym to be behind
1:05:18you because you're you're fighting not
1:05:20for a cause for World Class, but for the
1:05:22entire industry. So, why should somebody
1:05:24join? What's the process? How should
1:05:26they go about it?
1:05:28>> So, the work
1:05:29circumstances and the the work
1:05:31environment for a for an entrepreneur in
1:05:34Romania uh
1:05:36is not an easy one.
1:05:37Uh taxes are being increased as an
1:05:40entrepreneur on on the
1:05:42the companies.
1:05:43Um
1:05:45and and
1:05:46cost of utility costs are increasing,
1:05:49leases are increasing, all those things.
1:05:52By joining Romania Active, you also get
1:05:54someone speaking your voice. If you go
1:05:56by yourself
1:05:58as an entrepreneur, no chance. It's no
1:06:00chance because you are speaking in your
1:06:02own interest and it's also a financial
1:06:04interest of your company.
1:06:05>> Correct.
1:06:06>> It's a commercial interest.
1:06:07>> Correct.
1:06:07>> The association is speaking in a more
1:06:11overall interest for the industry.
1:06:13That's the reason why you should join
1:06:14because you have a voice
1:06:16through the association.
1:06:18>> Mhm.
1:06:18>> Uh speaking
1:06:20uh of the needs of the operators. So,
1:06:22what are we are doing when we do Romania
1:06:24Active is
1:06:26we are only speaking the voice of what
1:06:29the members have said, we would like
1:06:31this to be discussed.
1:06:33>> Mhm.
1:06:33>> It's not something that
1:06:35>> here mean gyms.
1:06:36>> Members being
1:06:37members being gyms, yes.
1:06:39>> So, how many members do you have in
1:06:41Romania Active at the moment?
1:06:43>> So, uh currently if you look at the how
1:06:46how many uh
1:06:48how many clubs we are covering of of of
1:06:50the
1:06:51so in Romania it's around one
1:06:54100 1,200
1:06:57clubs
1:06:58uh
1:06:59more or less in in and around 1,100
1:07:03members.
1:07:04>> Mhm.
1:07:04>> So, we represent if you look at the
1:07:06network we have of the members, we
1:07:08represent around 30% of the industry.
1:07:11>> So, there is still head room and there
1:07:12are more people who should be
1:07:13participating.
1:07:14>> Of course, it's it should be we should
1:07:15be more. But,
1:07:17when we have these
1:07:18meetings, we also get a lot of people
1:07:20that are not members with us that are
1:07:22also coming up and saying they're
1:07:23supporting, they're thinking about
1:07:25starting to join. So, there's a process
1:07:27also.
1:07:28>> What's the reluctance? Where do you see
1:07:29because this is something I can
1:07:30personally learn from. We have the same
1:07:32challenge in India.
1:07:33>> I think that all associations have the
1:07:35same thing. The question is what do I
1:07:37get for my money?
1:07:38>> Yeah.
1:07:38>> And when do I see money coming back for
1:07:40the things I've been paying for?
1:07:42But, I would say again
1:07:45it's it's like
1:07:47saying that okay, why should I pay for
1:07:49an insurance?
1:07:51I didn't have an accident.
1:07:52>> Correct.
1:07:53>> So, it's more or less you need to have
1:07:56a connection.
1:07:58You need to have
1:08:00a voice.
1:08:01>> Mhm.
1:08:02>> And and the voice is better when we are
1:08:04united and we can go
1:08:06with
1:08:07one voice and discuss one, two, three
1:08:10topics rather than
1:08:11trying to run around
1:08:14not knowing who to talk to because we
1:08:16can also more easily get to the right
1:08:18destination and speak.
1:08:20That's one thing, but
1:08:22I would say the biggest benefit is that
1:08:25when we get together in all these
1:08:27networks, you get to meet people and
1:08:29learn from people
1:08:31and you can become a better
1:08:32entrepreneur. You can make more money by
1:08:34actually interacting with peers in the
1:08:37industry.
1:08:38And it comes back to the the same
1:08:41things, having these meetings that I
1:08:43discussed recently just a couple of
1:08:45minutes ago.
1:08:46>> Mhm.
1:08:46>> Because
1:08:48it also unites.
1:08:50>> Correct.
1:08:51>> You know, sitting by yourself you hear
1:08:53things, you see things on social media
1:08:55and you create an image that is not the
1:08:56the real world.
1:08:57>> Correct.
1:08:58>> But, when I meet Samir and I see ah,
1:09:00he's a great guy.
1:09:02I want to do business with him. Suddenly
1:09:03we we make a collaboration and and both
1:09:06of us are winners in this. Or I meet the
1:09:09new supplier that I I didn't know that I
1:09:12could have.
1:09:13>> Yeah.
1:09:13>> Because I didn't know them.
1:09:15>> Yeah.
1:09:15>> I didn't have the network.
1:09:16>> Yeah.
1:09:17>> So, bringing people together and and
1:09:18and, you know, bringing the network to
1:09:20become stronger and stronger. Also, the
1:09:22suppliers win on this because they they
1:09:24get new clients.
1:09:25>> Mhm.
1:09:26>> And vice versa. So, it's a best practice
1:09:29uh sharing.
1:09:30>> Mhm.
1:09:31>> And it's also benchmarking, looking to
1:09:33see who did what and and what can I
1:09:35learn instead of inventing the wheel and
1:09:36doing all the mistakes that someone else
1:09:38already made.
1:09:40And you save time.
1:09:41>> Yeah, I know it was so it was not so
1:09:43nice to see today
1:09:45uh
1:09:46you, Vlad, and Alexander on the same
1:09:48panel.
1:09:49Right? People would see you as
1:09:50competition, right? In a way, I mean,
1:09:51there's three three gym chains,
1:09:54uh all large, you know, I think
1:09:56StayFit is expanding their the north of
1:09:5850 gyms now. Vlad is north of 35 gyms.
1:10:01You got about 47 gyms. And all on the
1:10:03same platform sharing best practices.
1:10:05So,
1:10:08let me go back and say, "How did you
1:10:09scale?" This is a question I've been
1:10:10always wanted to ask you. "How did you
1:10:11scale World Class?" Because that's a
1:10:13very expensive model in the sense it's
1:10:15very capital intensive. You can't make
1:10:18It's not like an independent gym, a
1:10:20small boutique that you will open and
1:10:22then you can shut down. They're
1:10:23long-term leases. You've got swimming
1:10:25pools. You've got
1:10:26you've got, you know, the commonness are
1:10:28very strong. So, how did you manage to
1:10:30scale with such a large It's a
1:10:34It's a big elephant. Each club I've seen
1:10:36your clubs are massive, right? So, how
1:10:38did you scale the business?
1:10:40>> Uh again, going back, first we need a
1:10:41good team.
1:10:42>> Mhm.
1:10:43>> We need to have the right people in the
1:10:44right positions working together for the
1:10:46same objectives, the same vision.
1:10:48>> Mhm.
1:10:49>> And that was the the main driver to make
1:10:52this. Again,
1:10:54I'm not the only one doing this. It's a
1:10:56a teamwork.
1:10:57>> Mhm. And
1:10:59uh second
1:10:59>> with you. At the end of the day, as a
1:11:01leader, the buck stops with you.
1:11:03>> Yeah. My It's It's on my shoulders, yes.
1:11:05>> Correct.
1:11:06>> But going back to
1:11:08also the the fundamentals, as we
1:11:11discussed also in the beginning, finding
1:11:13the right location. When you find the
1:11:14right location,
1:11:16you have solved 80% maybe 90% of your
1:11:19headaches, because you will have a good
1:11:21catchment area, you will have a flow of
1:11:23people coming in, and and the investment
1:11:25will be speeding up return on investment
1:11:28will speed up.
1:11:28>> you find out what's a good location?
1:11:30>> That's
1:11:32That's market
1:11:33>> Great secret.
1:11:35>> It's a combination of market market
1:11:37research.
1:11:38It's
1:11:39also in the end combination of gut
1:11:42feeling and and you know, seeing the
1:11:44flows. You need to go and look.
1:11:47Because sometimes you can be on the
1:11:48wrong wrong side of the street.
1:11:51It's a good location on the
1:11:53on the Google Maps, but you may be in
1:11:56the wrong side of the street, because
1:11:57you you cannot get
1:11:59easy access,
1:12:00parking, or maybe it's something where
1:12:03it's not where you stop when you are on
1:12:05between your home and work.
1:12:07So,
1:12:09um
1:12:10it it's really not something that you
1:12:13can
1:12:14learn in school. You need to work with
1:12:16it, and we had uh
1:12:18very good people working with this,
1:12:21and and and that person now is is
1:12:22responsible for the
1:12:24the beef brand also. So,
1:12:26>> So, identifying the right location.
1:12:28>> Identifying the right locations is key.
1:12:30The of course. Then,
1:12:32uh
1:12:33you also know about the the phenomenon
1:12:35that usually we as people, we have three
1:12:37places where we go. We go We stay at
1:12:40home, we go to work, and then we usually
1:12:43end up going on a frequent basis to an
1:12:46interest that we have. It might be that
1:12:48my interest is playing football.
1:12:51So, then I go to the football pitch, and
1:12:53I
1:12:54meet friends
1:12:55around football. We go to the pub
1:12:57together. We do certain things. So, the
1:12:59We do
1:13:00You know, we eat and and enjoy things
1:13:02together, but it's around football.
1:13:05Or
1:13:07we find a way to make sure that we will
1:13:10be that third
1:13:11space.
1:13:12And if we can locate ourselves
1:13:15close to the where people live, we are
1:13:17very close to their their proximity,
1:13:19right?
1:13:19>> Right.
1:13:20>> That will be
1:13:22being very close to their reality. And
1:13:25if we can find
1:13:26to be very close where they
1:13:28where they live.
1:13:30And then, if we can go be good at
1:13:32finding another spot where they either
1:13:35have their third space
1:13:37and can easily transition into where we
1:13:39are,
1:13:41then that becomes a natural way of of
1:13:44finding a flow. Could we also be close
1:13:46to work, but we also know that the work
1:13:48environment the real estate where the
1:13:49work is based now is not the best place
1:13:52to put it. It is not. So, you want to be
1:13:54away from that.
1:13:56But
1:13:56>> Yeah, but this is something I've never
1:13:58been able to understand. I don't
1:13:59Obviously, I also run gyms can't and you
1:14:02know,
1:14:02we have I have a club at the moment in
1:14:05in an IT park in India.
1:14:07And we always struggle in an IT park in
1:14:09close to the workplace. Why do you think
1:14:11it's a challenge? Everybody says the
1:14:12same thing. You don't want to be close
1:14:13to the workplace. Why?
1:14:15>> Well, before before the pandemic,
1:14:17workplaces
1:14:18were quite diverse and it was quite
1:14:21dense.
1:14:22>> Yeah.
1:14:23>> A lot of people. So, if you were at the
1:14:24workplace, you were very close to where
1:14:26they So, you they could very accessible
1:14:29get there.
1:14:30But if you're looking at it how it is
1:14:32now, people are usually not working in
1:14:35those spaces anymore.
1:14:38You need to also spend time at work, so
1:14:40you cannot leave work whenever you want.
1:14:42So, it becomes a bit more
1:14:45tricky at this point. Uh um
1:14:49Depends on on the density of the area,
1:14:51how many people are actually in that
1:14:53area. It's very important. And the
1:14:55proximity, we know that it's also
1:14:57important how the proximity to choose a
1:14:59gym
1:15:00uh or choose a location
1:15:02uh usually comes when uh it's very close
1:15:05to where you live.
1:15:06>> Is that your Is that been your
1:15:08experience all across that the best
1:15:10places to be in a nicely densely
1:15:12populated residential area? Is that
1:15:14>> Or also uh
1:15:16retail area where people where where
1:15:18people go and buy food
1:15:21uh like food retailer.
1:15:23>> Malls as
1:15:24>> Malls are very uh strong uh areas for us
1:15:28also with World Class.
1:15:30So, this these are the the main two
1:15:32drivers right now.
1:15:34And once you once you're there, it feels
1:15:37for the audience, their perception is
1:15:39that we are no almost everywhere.
1:15:41So, we save a lot of cost on uh
1:15:43marketing uh we save save
1:15:47uh
1:15:48efficient they would become an
1:15:49efficiency in how uh we can brand
1:15:52ourselves in those areas.
1:15:54>> I'm sure you've used uh you leverage
1:15:56technology to your benefit in expanding
1:15:59World Class. So, tell me what's your
1:16:02technology tech strategy as World Class
1:16:04and now obviously with you know B Fit as
1:16:06the second brand coming in,
1:16:08uh where do you see
1:16:10tech where has it got you from point A
1:16:12to point B now and from point B to point
1:16:14C where you going? How do you see this
1:16:16moving?
1:16:17>> First and foremost uh
1:16:19automatization for access
1:16:21uh people want to have a fast access.
1:16:23They don't want to stand in queues and
1:16:25wait for just uh swipe their card and
1:16:28show their membership. They want to go
1:16:29go go in. So, here access as access
1:16:33control is is one way that point you can
1:16:35call it point B.
1:16:38Going from there, it it's also you can
1:16:40do face recognition. You can do more
1:16:41things uh on this part. You can also
1:16:43make sure that you can uh uh uh
1:16:46uh have certain spaces inside the club
1:16:48where you pay extra for if you want
1:16:50access to that area to another area.
1:16:53Um
1:16:54one thing that is still remains, and I
1:16:56think this is a the innovation that we
1:16:58also need to look into is how we can
1:17:00innovate a support system for onboarding
1:17:03of members. Uh automate the onboarding
1:17:05better. Uh support with uh educational
1:17:09videos. Uh
1:17:11have uh
1:17:12of course obviously the fitness tracking
1:17:14so you can connect yourself uh the data
1:17:17from what you do in the gym.
1:17:20>> Mhm.
1:17:20>> Because you don't really have a fitness
1:17:21tracker what's happening in the gym.
1:17:23>> Mhm.
1:17:24>> Uh
1:17:25but that is something that we as an
1:17:26operator could uh could provide.
1:17:28>> Mhm.
1:17:29>> And then uh looking into see how you can
1:17:31wrap the data around it in order to
1:17:34provide feedback back to the consumer.
1:17:36>> Mhm.
1:17:37And and what's the role of uh what kind
1:17:40of MISs do you use? Like what's your
1:17:42management information system in terms
1:17:43of taking decisions? Like when you see
1:17:46members are not turning up or you know
1:17:49uh usage patterns. And do you see um do
1:17:53you see trends in particular areas where
1:17:56you see there's a dip and then you take
1:17:57a change a decision? How often do you
1:17:59look at that data?
1:18:01Every month.
1:18:02>> Mhm.
1:18:02>> So uh and every week we're looking at
1:18:04the data. We're trying to figure out uh
1:18:07uh to create incentives to make sure be
1:18:10sure people uh
1:18:12activate themselves again.
1:18:14>> Mhm.
1:18:14>> And here's the tricky part. We again,
1:18:16we're in this uh business of changing
1:18:19behaviors.
1:18:20>> Mhm.
1:18:20>> Just because um
1:18:22I am an aggregated data can see things,
1:18:25doesn't mean I know what why did Samir
1:18:27uh stop coming to the gym?
1:18:29>> Mhm.
1:18:29>> I don't know.
1:18:31Because I I need to speak to you, right?
1:18:32>> Mhm.
1:18:33>> Maybe you stopped coming to the gym for
1:18:34many different reasons. You had a lot of
1:18:36things to do, you traveled, right now?
1:18:38So, if I assume that you're not at the
1:18:40gym because you you don't
1:18:42you don't want to go to the gym or
1:18:44you're just lazy,
1:18:45my communication might be wrong.
1:18:48So, that personalization of data needs
1:18:49to be more
1:18:51smarter.
1:18:52And without
1:18:54putting the guilt on you. Ah. I haven't
1:18:56seen you for a while.
1:18:58That might be a good starter, but um
1:19:02how do I know what happened?
1:19:04Maybe you had an accident. You're not
1:19:06able to
1:19:07to go to the gym. So, it's very
1:19:09sensitive, but um
1:19:12what we do and what we try to do is to
1:19:14try to get people to join
1:19:17either classes
1:19:19or with a personal trainer and to win
1:19:21them back to a routine.
1:19:23Um
1:19:24>> Yeah, because people fall off the rails
1:19:26and usually I've seen when people it
1:19:28takes a lot of effort for them to come
1:19:30to the gym and when they drop off,
1:19:32getting them back into the gym is very
1:19:33difficult.
1:19:34>> Usually it's more difficult for them to
1:19:36come back after they drop out than it is
1:19:39to start the first time. So, in in
1:19:41usually in the beginning of the year
1:19:42everyone sees themselves as
1:19:44>> New Year's resolution. Yes.
1:19:45>> New Year's resolution. Now
1:19:47now it's going to be a better year. I
1:19:48was going to I'm going to work out more
1:19:50frequently. Everything changes.
1:19:52>> Yeah.
1:19:53>> But
1:19:53things changes after March.
1:19:55>> Kent, what's your own personal fitness
1:19:58regime? How do you keep fit? Like
1:20:01you look very fit. So, what do you do?
1:20:03How do you train?
1:20:05>> Um
1:20:06one is um I live a after the
1:20:10the the motto of um
1:20:13the best exercise is the one that is
1:20:15being done.
1:20:17Sometimes I don't feel like going to the
1:20:18gym at all. Um
1:20:20but I rather do 50 minutes at the gym
1:20:24had uh the check feeling that I did
1:20:26something than to skip.
1:20:29If I don't go to the gym, it should be
1:20:31part of
1:20:33uh
1:20:34my recovery.
1:20:35>> Mhm.
1:20:35>> So, that recovery is a recovery day.
1:20:37>> Mhm.
1:20:38>> Uh but sometimes that recovery can be
1:20:40that I go out for a run.
1:20:42>> Mhm.
1:20:43>> Or I do something else. But my routine
1:20:45is uh
1:20:46four to five times a week I try to go in
1:20:48the morning.
1:20:49>> Mhm.
1:20:49>> I wake up around 5:30 to 6:00. Be at the
1:20:52gym 30 minutes later.
1:20:54Because here I save time by doing this.
1:20:57Because I transport myself from from uh
1:21:00my home
1:21:02towards the gym
1:21:03uh of of choice.
1:21:05And I do work out before the traffic
1:21:07starts. So, then I halfway to the
1:21:10office.
1:21:11>> I love the same I do the same exact
1:21:12same.
1:21:13>> Halfway to to the day. And then I'm in
1:21:15the office early morning as well. So,
1:21:17I'm I'm an early bird. I like to do it
1:21:19in the morning. And then I do a mix
1:21:21between cardio
1:21:23>> Mhm.
1:21:23>> and high
1:21:24Sorry. High intensity
1:21:26weightlifting.
1:21:29So, I don't lift heavy heavy weights.
1:21:31>> Mhm.
1:21:31>> But
1:21:33uh
1:21:33I try to lift
1:21:35in such a way that I get
1:21:37tired and the pulse goes up. So, it will
1:21:40be high fairly high intensity low low
1:21:43rest periods between.
1:21:45And then be done in
1:21:47between 30 to 45 minutes.
1:21:49>> What's your relationship with food?
1:21:52>> Well, um
1:21:53I I
1:21:54I love food.
1:21:56Of course. Uh being
1:21:57>> #metoo
1:21:58>> Yeah.
1:21:58>> [laughter]
1:21:58>> #metoo
1:22:00Uh
1:22:01I I try to eat um
1:22:03as clean as possible. I try to eat stay
1:22:06away from sugar.
1:22:07>> Mhm.
1:22:08>> Uh
1:22:08to make sure that uh
1:22:10because if I do, it's very easy to
1:22:13you know, uh
1:22:14I don't need to have this uh discussion
1:22:17about
1:22:19taking something. So, the discussion
1:22:20with me is with myself.
1:22:23>> Mhm.
1:22:23>> It's not with anyone else.
1:22:24>> Mhm.
1:22:25>> So, sometimes if I want to to eat
1:22:27something sweet, I take dark chocolate.
1:22:30Sounds very boring, but
1:22:32it's for me food needs to also be part
1:22:35of the medicine.
1:22:36>> Correct.
1:22:36>> Right? So,
1:22:38um
1:22:39I say no to cakes and things today
1:22:41because I'm too old to eat all that
1:22:43sugar. Um and uh
1:22:47I don't do
1:22:48any kind of I don't drink alcohol
1:22:50anymore.
1:22:52I just uh
1:22:53took it out.
1:22:55>> So, you just completely given up
1:22:56alcohol, is it?
1:22:57Wow, how long back was that?
1:23:02>> I don't know, 7, 8, 10 years.
1:23:04>> 10 years, wow. That's a long time.
1:23:07So, what do you do on all these in these
1:23:08parties? Like this is a question people
1:23:09ask.
1:23:10>> Well, you know, it's very easy. You can
1:23:13You can have a glass of
1:23:15Prosecco, you can have a glass of wine.
1:23:16>> Mhm.
1:23:17>> But
1:23:18no one is asking you if you don't
1:23:20if did you drink or not.
1:23:22>> Yeah.
1:23:22>> But if if they see that I have it in my
1:23:24hand, they they don't ask. Or I have a
1:23:26glass of water and just say, "Sorry,
1:23:28driving."
1:23:29>> Yeah.
1:23:30>> So,
1:23:31it's quite easy.
1:23:32>> I know I remember I was speaking with
1:23:34one of my friends. He runs a company
1:23:35called Member. He sold it to Xplor. He's
1:23:37like, "You know, Sameer, I like to train
1:23:39and I just [ __ ] hate drinking because
1:23:41and it's a lot of time it's social
1:23:43pressure. You do You drink because of
1:23:45social pressure." He says, "Boss, I
1:23:47He's on Guinness zeros. He says, "Now
1:23:49nobody knows I'm having is it alcoholic
1:23:51or not?" And a lot of times people push
1:23:53you, "Oh, why you not drinking?" And he
1:23:54says, "Yeah, I'm drinking. I'm
1:23:55drinking." But they don't need to know
1:23:57you're doing You're drinking a zero. I
1:23:58think as long as you're taking the
1:23:59decision and I think people don't
1:24:01understand the um
1:24:04the impact of alcohol on our bodies.
1:24:07And it's
1:24:08>> It's, you know, it's personal choice.
1:24:09So, in the end
1:24:11I don't make any judgment. I just made a
1:24:13choice. I I want to eat clean. I want to
1:24:15sleep good and I want to
1:24:18be able to wake up early in the morning,
1:24:20do my workout, and be with
1:24:22my family. So, that's uh uh
1:24:25and the rest of the time is
1:24:27working and uh
1:24:29making sure we can grow World Class.
1:24:32>> What do we see next from Kent and World
1:24:35Class?
1:24:36How does next year look like?
1:24:38>> Very good question. Um I hope
1:24:42and my vision is that we can grow World
1:24:44Class to be
1:24:46a stronger brand, uh innovative brand,
1:24:49uh World Class has an extremely brand in
1:24:51Romania.
1:24:52It's difficult to explain, but everyone
1:24:55knows. It It surprised me uh
1:24:57still, even if I've been here for
1:25:00for more than I think it's more than 12
1:25:02years now.
1:25:03Uh
1:25:04I was surprised in the beginning the
1:25:05brand was already strong when I started
1:25:08here and it's stronger even now. So,
1:25:12it's well known and I want to make sure
1:25:13that the brand
1:25:15become even stronger
1:25:17in the top whatever strong brands
1:25:19competition you can have.
1:25:21So, and we're doing this, we need to
1:25:24innovate. We need to be the market
1:25:26leader when it comes to new ways of
1:25:28exercising,
1:25:30uh new audiences that we can attract,
1:25:33all the audiences that we can maintain,
1:25:36and looking around the corner how we can
1:25:38also absorb all the trends around
1:25:41longevity
1:25:42and the wellness
1:25:44uh area that is coming quite fast.
1:25:47The healthness.
1:25:49>> And that's the key.
1:25:51The key is going to be to look at it
1:25:52holistically. And I think World Class is
1:25:54poised to be a market leader and not
1:25:57only in Romania, but I think set
1:25:59benchmarks for the
1:26:00uh for the world.
1:26:01>> We That's very good. Thank you for that
1:26:03addition to the to the vision. So, yes,
1:26:06we will of course also look beyond the
1:26:08the borders of Romania.
1:26:10>> Amazing. Thanks, Kent. Really appreciate
1:26:12your time today.
1:26:12>> Thank you very much to have and having
1:26:14me. Thank you.

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