Richard Nixon Used DOJ Official To Track Watergate Investigation | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00Sleep Number. Proven, quality sleep.
2. 0:06Proven, quality sleep. >>> WHEN THE SENATE ASKED FORMER
3. 0:08>>> WHEN THE SENATE ASKED FORMER FBI DIRECTOR JAMES COMEY FOR THE
4. 0:09FBI DIRECTOR JAMES COMEY FOR THE NAMES OF PEOPLE HE CONFIDED IN
5. 0:10NAMES OF PEOPLE HE CONFIDED IN ABOUT THE PRESIDENT ASKING HIM
6. 0:11ABOUT THE PRESIDENT ASKING HIM AS HEAD OF THE FBI TO LIFT THE
7. 0:13AS HEAD OF THE FBI TO LIFT THE CLOUD OF THE RUSSIA
8. 0:15CLOUD OF THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION, THE LIST THAT
9. 0:16INVESTIGATION, THE LIST THAT JAMES COMEY GAVE THE SENATE WAS
10. 0:17JAMES COMEY GAVE THE SENATE WAS NOT A LONG ONE.
11. 0:20NOT A LONG ONE. >> WHO ARE THOSE SENIOR LEADERS
12. 0:23>> WHO ARE THOSE SENIOR LEADERS AT THE FBI THAT YOU SHARED THESE
13. 0:24AT THE FBI THAT YOU SHARED THESE CONVERSATIONS WITH?
14. 0:25CONVERSATIONS WITH? >> AS I SAID, IN RESPONSE TO
15. 0:27>> AS I SAID, IN RESPONSE TO SENATOR FEINSTEIN’S QUESTION,
16. 0:28SENATOR FEINSTEIN’S QUESTION, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, MY CHIEF OF
17. 0:30DEPUTY DIRECTOR, MY CHIEF OF STAFF, GENERAL COUNSEL, THE
18. 0:32STAFF, GENERAL COUNSEL, THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR’S CHIEF COUNSEL,
19. 0:34DEPUTY DIRECTOR’S CHIEF COUNSEL, AND THEN MORE OFTEN THAN NOT,
20. 0:35AND THEN MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, THE NUMBER THREE PERSON AT THE
21. 0:37THE NUMBER THREE PERSON AT THE FBI, WHO IS THE ASSOCIATE DEPUTY
22. 0:38FBI, WHO IS THE ASSOCIATE DEPUTY DIRECTOR, AND QUITE OFTEN THE
23. 0:39DIRECTOR, AND QUITE OFTEN THE HEAD OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY
24. 0:40HEAD OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY BRANCH.
25. 0:42BRANCH. >> SIX PEOPLE IN JAMES COMEY’S
26. 0:43>> SIX PEOPLE IN JAMES COMEY’S INNER CIRCLE.
27. 0:45INNER CIRCLE. ALL BUT ONE OF THEM ARE NOW GONE
28. 0:47ALL BUT ONE OF THEM ARE NOW GONE FROM THE FBI.
29. 0:48FROM THE FBI. THE PERSON HE LISTED THIRD, FBI
30. 0:50THE PERSON HE LISTED THIRD, FBI GENERAL COUNSEL -- FBI GENERAL
31. 0:51GENERAL COUNSEL -- FBI GENERAL COUNSEL JIM BAKER, HE LEFT THE
32. 0:53COUNSEL JIM BAKER, HE LEFT THE FBI IN MAY OF THIS YEAR.
33. 0:55FBI IN MAY OF THIS YEAR. MR. BAKER SAID AT THE TIME HE
34. 0:56MR. BAKER SAID AT THE TIME HE WAS GOING TO JOIN THE BROOKINGS
35. 0:59WAS GOING TO JOIN THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION, AND HE PLANNED TO
36. 1:00INSTITUTION, AND HE PLANNED TO WRITE FOR THEIR HIGH PROFILE
37. 1:02WRITE FOR THEIR HIGH PROFILE LEGAL WEBSITE ON NATIONAL
38. 1:03LEGAL WEBSITE ON NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUES.
39. 1:04SECURITY ISSUES. THEIR WEBSITE IS CALLED LAWFARE.
40. 1:07THEIR WEBSITE IS CALLED LAWFARE. THIS WEEK, IN WHAT I THINK IS
41. 1:09THIS WEEK, IN WHAT I THINK IS JIM BAKER ARTICLE NUMBER SIX FOR
42. 1:12JIM BAKER ARTICLE NUMBER SIX FOR LAWFARE, HE HAS MORE OR LESS
43. 1:14LAWFARE, HE HAS MORE OR LESS BLOWN UP THE INTERNET, AT LEAST
44. 1:17BLOWN UP THE INTERNET, AT LEAST MY PERSONAL SOCIAL MEDIA FEED IS
45. 1:19MY PERSONAL SOCIAL MEDIA FEED IS NOW USELESS FOR ANYTHING OTHER
46. 1:20NOW USELESS FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THIS STORY.
47. 1:21THAN THIS STORY. THIS IS THE PIECE HE HAS JUST
48. 1:23THIS IS THE PIECE HE HAS JUST WRITTEN.
49. 1:23WRITTEN. WHAT THE WATERGATE ROAD MAP
50. 1:25WHAT THE WATERGATE ROAD MAP REVEALS ABOUT IMPROPER CONTACT
51. 1:27REVEALS ABOUT IMPROPER CONTACT BETWEEN THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE
52. 1:29BETWEEN THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
53. 1:30JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. THIS IS AN IN-DEPTH HISTORICAL
54. 1:32THIS IS AN IN-DEPTH HISTORICAL PIECE ABOUT PRESIDENT RICHARD
55. 1:33PIECE ABOUT PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON AND THE TROUBLE HE MADE
56. 1:34NIXON AND THE TROUBLE HE MADE FOR HIMSELF WHEN HE LEANED ON
57. 1:36FOR HIMSELF WHEN HE LEANED ON OFFICIALS IN HIS OWN JUSTICE
58. 1:38OFFICIALS IN HIS OWN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT BOTH TO TRY TO
59. 1:39DEPARTMENT BOTH TO TRY TO INFLUENCE THE COURSE OF THE
60. 1:40INFLUENCE THE COURSE OF THE WATERGATE INVESTIGATION, BUT
61. 1:41WATERGATE INVESTIGATION, BUT ALSO SPECIFICALLY TO GET THEM TO
62. 1:44ALSO SPECIFICALLY TO GET THEM TO FEED HIM INFORMATION ON THE
63. 1:45FEED HIM INFORMATION ON THE ONGOING CASE.
64. 1:48ONGOING CASE. JAMES BAKER, EX-FBI GENERAL
65. 1:51JAMES BAKER, EX-FBI GENERAL COUNSEL NOW PROVIDING AN
66. 1:53COUNSEL NOW PROVIDING AN IMPRESSIVE HISTORY LESSON ON HOW
67. 1:55IMPRESSIVE HISTORY LESSON ON HOW ONE OF THE ARTICLES OF
68. 1:56ONE OF THE ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT AGAINST NIXON WAS IN
69. 1:58IMPEACHMENT AGAINST NIXON WAS IN PART ABOUT HIM OPENING UP A BACK
70. 2:00PART ABOUT HIM OPENING UP A BACK CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION WITH A
71. 2:02CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION WITH A SENIOR JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
72. 2:03SENIOR JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL THAT WAS DESIGNED TO
73. 2:04OFFICIAL THAT WAS DESIGNED TO INFORM HIM ABOUT THE INNER WORKS
74. 2:06INFORM HIM ABOUT THE INNER WORKS OF THE WATERGATE CASE.
75. 2:07OF THE WATERGATE CASE. JOINING US NOW FOR THE INTERVIEW
76. 2:08JOINING US NOW FOR THE INTERVIEW IS JAMES BAKER, FORMER GENERAL
77. 2:11IS JAMES BAKER, FORMER GENERAL COUNSEL OF THE FBI AND CO-AUTHOR
78. 2:13COUNSEL OF THE FBI AND CO-AUTHOR WITH SARAH GRANT OF THIS
79. 2:15WITH SARAH GRANT OF THIS OF HISTORY.
80. 2:18OF HISTORY. MR. BAKER, IT’S REALLY NICE TO
81. 2:19MR. BAKER, IT’S REALLY NICE TO HAVE YOU HERE.
82. 2:20HAVE YOU HERE. I KNOW YOU DON’T DO THINGS LIKE
83. 2:22I KNOW YOU DON’T DO THINGS LIKE THIS OFTEN IF AT ALL.
84. 2:23THIS OFTEN IF AT ALL. SO IT’S A REAL HONOR TO HAVE YOU
85. 2:25SO IT’S A REAL HONOR TO HAVE YOU ON THE PROGRAM.
86. 2:26ON THE PROGRAM. >> THANKS, RACHEL.
87. 2:27>> THANKS, RACHEL. FIRST TIME EVER.
88. 2:28FIRST TIME EVER. >> I PROMISE IT WILL NOT BE TOO
89. 2:29>> I PROMISE IT WILL NOT BE TOO PAINFUL.
90. 2:30PAINFUL. >> OKAY.
91. 2:30>> OKAY. WE’LL SEE, WE’LL SEE.
92. 2:31WE’LL SEE, WE’LL SEE. >> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHY YOU
93. 2:32>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHY YOU DID THIS.
94. 2:33DID THIS. YOU HAVE WRITTEN THIS PIECE.
95. 2:34YOU HAVE WRITTEN THIS PIECE. IT HAS RECEIVED A LOT OF
96. 2:35IT HAS RECEIVED A LOT OF ATTENTION, NOT ONLY FOR THE
97. 2:38ATTENTION, NOT ONLY FOR THE HISTORICAL ANALOGY THAT PEOPLE
98. 2:40HISTORICAL ANALOGY THAT PEOPLE ARE DRAWING TO OUR CURRENT
99. 2:42ARE DRAWING TO OUR CURRENT SITUATION, BUT ALSO BECAUSE YOU
100. 2:43SITUATION, BUT ALSO BECAUSE YOU WROTE IT.
101. 2:44WROTE IT. CAN YOU JUST TELL ME WHAT IT IS
102. 2:45CAN YOU JUST TELL ME WHAT IT IS ABOUT THIS PART OF HISTORY THAT
103. 2:47ABOUT THIS PART OF HISTORY THAT INTERESTS YOU SO MUCH.
104. 2:48INTERESTS YOU SO MUCH. >> SURE.
105. 2:49>> SURE. A COUPLE OF THINGS.
106. 2:50A COUPLE OF THINGS. WHEN I FIRST I DIDN’T REALLY
107. 2:52WHEN I FIRST I DIDN’T REALLY KNOW ABOUT THE ROAD MAP VERY
108. 2:54KNOW ABOUT THE ROAD MAP VERY MUCH BEFORE.
109. 2:55MUCH BEFORE. AND WHEN IT WAS RECENTLY
110. 2:56AND WHEN IT WAS RECENTLY RELEASED BY THE DISTRICT COURT
111. 2:57RELEASED BY THE DISTRICT COURT IN WASHINGTON, D.C., I’D LOOKED
112. 2:58IN WASHINGTON, D.C., I’D LOOKED AT IT.
113. 2:59AT IT. I HEARD ABOUT IT.
114. 3:00I HEARD ABOUT IT. I TOOK A LOOK AT IT AND STARTED
115. 3:02I TOOK A LOOK AT IT AND STARTED READING IT.
116. 3:02READING IT. AND I SAW ALL THESE REFERENCES
117. 3:05AND I SAW ALL THESE REFERENCES TO HENRY PETERSEN.
118. 3:05TO HENRY PETERSEN. I HAD WORKED IN THE CRIMINAL
119. 3:07I HAD WORKED IN THE CRIMINAL DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FOR MANY
120. 3:08DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FOR MANY YEARS AND KNEW WHO HENRY
121. 3:10YEARS AND KNEW WHO HENRY PETERSEN WAS, AND HE IS A
122. 3:12PETERSEN WAS, AND HE IS A REVERED FIGURE THERE.
123. 3:13REVERED FIGURE THERE. THAT SORT OF LEAPT OFF THE PAGE
124. 3:15THAT SORT OF LEAPT OFF THE PAGE AT ME.
125. 3:16AT ME. WHAT’S ALL THIS ABOUT?
126. 3:18WHAT’S ALL THIS ABOUT? THE ROAD MAP ITSELF IS VERY
127. 3:20THE ROAD MAP ITSELF IS VERY SPARSE IN TERMS OF THE
128. 3:21SPARSE IN TERMS OF THE INFORMATION IT PROVIDES, BUT IT
129. 3:23INFORMATION IT PROVIDES, BUT IT CITES TWO ADDITIONAL UNDERLYING
130. 3:25CITES TWO ADDITIONAL UNDERLYING DOCUMENTS THAT I STARTED DIGGING
131. 3:27DOCUMENTS THAT I STARTED DIGGING INTO, LIKE GRAND JURY
132. 3:28INTO, LIKE GRAND JURY TRANSCRIPTS AND SOME OTHER
133. 3:29TRANSCRIPTS AND SOME OTHER DOCUMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
134. 3:30DOCUMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AS I STARTED TO READ THOSE, I
135. 3:32AS I STARTED TO READ THOSE, I REALLY JUST WAS WHAT IN THE
136. 3:33REALLY JUST WAS WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THIS ALL ABOUT?
137. 3:35WORLD IS THIS ALL ABOUT? THE NUMBER OF INTERACTIONS THAT
138. 3:37THE NUMBER OF INTERACTIONS THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
139. 3:38THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HAD DIRECTLY WITH MR.
140. 3:41STATES HAD DIRECTLY WITH MR. PETERSEN, WHO AT THE TIME AS YOU
141. 3:42PETERSEN, WHO AT THE TIME AS YOU SAID EARLIER WAS RUNNING -- THIS
142. 3:44SAID EARLIER WAS RUNNING -- THIS IS BEFORE THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR
143. 3:45IS BEFORE THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR WAS APPOINTED, HENRY PETERSEN
144. 3:47WAS APPOINTED, HENRY PETERSEN WAS IN CHARGE OF EFFECTIVELY
145. 3:49WAS IN CHARGE OF EFFECTIVELY RUNNING THE WATERGATE
146. 3:50RUNNING THE WATERGATE INVESTIGATION, SUPERVISING IT.
147. 3:51INVESTIGATION, SUPERVISING IT. AND SO THERE IS ALL THESE
148. 3:53AND SO THERE IS ALL THESE CONTACTS.
149. 3:53CONTACTS. THERE IS ALL THESE INTERACTIONS.
150. 3:54THERE IS ALL THESE INTERACTIONS. THERE IS ALL THESE DISCUSSIONS
151. 3:56THERE IS ALL THESE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT AS YOU
152. 3:57WITH THE PRESIDENT AS YOU OUTLINED THE PRESIDENT MAKES
153. 3:58OUTLINED THE PRESIDENT MAKES THESE COMMENTS ABOUT JOHN DEAN
154. 4:04THESE COMMENTS ABOUT JOHN DEAN AND -- ABOUT EHRLICHMAN AND
155. 4:07AND -- ABOUT EHRLICHMAN AND HALDEMAN, I’M SORRY, ABOUT HOW
156. 4:08HALDEMAN, I’M SORRY, ABOUT HOW THESE ARE FINE UPSTANDING GUYS
157. 4:09THESE ARE FINE UPSTANDING GUYS WHEN PETERSEN AND THEN ATTORNEY
158. 4:13WHEN PETERSEN AND THEN ATTORNEY GENERAL GO IN TO SEE HIM AND SAY
159. 4:15GENERAL GO IN TO SEE HIM AND SAY LOOK, WE’VE GOT A PROBLEM.
160. 4:16LOOK, WE’VE GOT A PROBLEM. WE’RE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT
161. 4:17WE’RE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THESE GUYS AND WE THINK YOU
162. 4:18THESE GUYS AND WE THINK YOU SHOULD FIRE THEM.
163. 4:19SHOULD FIRE THEM. AND THE PRESIDENT HAD A REACTION
164. 4:20AND THE PRESIDENT HAD A REACTION THAT WAS KIND OF SURPRISING TO
165. 4:21THAT WAS KIND OF SURPRISING TO ME.
166. 4:22ME. BUT AS I DUG INTO IT MORE, IT
167. 4:24BUT AS I DUG INTO IT MORE, IT WAS THE VOLUME OF THE -- IT WAS
168. 4:26WAS THE VOLUME OF THE -- IT WAS THE NUMBER OF INTERACTIONS, THE
169. 4:28THE NUMBER OF INTERACTIONS, THE NATURE OF THE SCOPE THAT REALLY
170. 4:30NATURE OF THE SCOPE THAT REALLY SURPRISED ME.
171. 4:31SURPRISED ME. I WAS JUST SURPRISED BY IT AND
172. 4:33I WAS JUST SURPRISED BY IT AND INTRIGUED.
173. 4:33INTRIGUED. AND I GUESS THE OTHER THING, AS
174. 4:35AND I GUESS THE OTHER THING, AS YOU SAID EARLIER, THIS WAS
175. 4:37YOU SAID EARLIER, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT I WAS UNAWARE OF
176. 4:39SOMETHING THAT I WAS UNAWARE OF BEFORE MYSELF.
177. 4:40BEFORE MYSELF. AND HAVING WORKED IN THE JUSTICE
178. 4:42AND HAVING WORKED IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOR MANY YEARS.
179. 4:43DEPARTMENT FOR MANY YEARS. I THOUGHT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT
180. 4:45I THOUGHT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE USEFUL TO FOLKS STILL
181. 4:47MIGHT BE USEFUL TO FOLKS STILL IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO BE
182. 4:48IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO BE AWARE OF, TO HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE
183. 4:50AWARE OF, TO HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT.
184. 4:51ABOUT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I
185. 4:52ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I STRUGGLED WITH ALL THE TIME --
186. 4:53STRUGGLED WITH ALL THE TIME -- NOT ALL THE TIME, BUT FREQUENTLY
187. 4:55NOT ALL THE TIME, BUT FREQUENTLY WAS HAVING TO CONFRONT NOVEL
188. 4:59WAS HAVING TO CONFRONT NOVEL COMPLICATE
189. 5:00COMPLICATE COMPLICATED, CHALLENGING
190. 5:01COMPLICATED, CHALLENGING PROBLEMS THAT THERE WAS NO BOOK
191. 5:02PROBLEMS THAT THERE WAS NO BOOK TO GO TO LOOK UP AN ANSWER.
192. 5:04TO GO TO LOOK UP AN ANSWER. LIKE HOW DID PEOPLE DEAL WITH
193. 5:06LIKE HOW DID PEOPLE DEAL WITH THIS BEFORE?
194. 5:06THIS BEFORE? WHAT ARE THE GUIDELINES?
195. 5:07WHAT ARE THE GUIDELINES? WHAT ARE THE CASES?
196. 5:08WHAT ARE THE CASES? OFTENTIMES THERE WERE NO
197. 5:09OFTENTIMES THERE WERE NO GUIDELINES OR CASES OR OTHER
198. 5:11GUIDELINES OR CASES OR OTHER THINGS THAT YOU COULD GO TO.
199. 5:12THINGS THAT YOU COULD GO TO. WHENEVER THERE IS SOMETHING THAT
200. 5:14WHENEVER THERE IS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT, SOMETHING TO
201. 5:17YOU CAN LOOK AT, SOMETHING TO INFORM DECISION-MAKERS ABOUT
202. 5:18INFORM DECISION-MAKERS ABOUT WHAT THE BEST WAY TO GO IS, IT
203. 5:20WHAT THE BEST WAY TO GO IS, IT SEEMS LIKE SHOULD IT BE USEFUL
204. 5:21SEEMS LIKE SHOULD IT BE USEFUL AND MIGHT BE USEFUL.
205. 5:22AND MIGHT BE USEFUL. AND SO I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE
206. 5:24AND SO I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HAVE BOTH FOLKS IN
207. 5:26HELPFUL TO HAVE BOTH FOLKS IN THE GOVERNMENT HAVE ACCESS TO
208. 5:27THE GOVERNMENT HAVE ACCESS TO THIS INFORMATION, AND THEN
209. 5:28THIS INFORMATION, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY MORE BROADLY THE
210. 5:29OBVIOUSLY MORE BROADLY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
211. 5:31AMERICAN PEOPLE. I THINK IT’S -- WE, AS MANY
212. 5:32I THINK IT’S -- WE, AS MANY PEOPLE HAVE SAID, IF WE DON’T
213. 5:34PEOPLE HAVE SAID, IF WE DON’T LEARN FROM HISTORY, WE’RE
214. 5:35LEARN FROM HISTORY, WE’RE CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT.
215. 5:36CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT. SO THIS WAS PIECE OF HISTORY
216. 5:37SO THIS WAS PIECE OF HISTORY THAT I PERSONALLY DIDN’T KNOW
217. 5:38THAT I PERSONALLY DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT.
218. 5:39ABOUT. I THOUGHT IT WAS INTRIGUING AND
219. 5:40I THOUGHT IT WAS INTRIGUING AND INTERESTING.
220. 5:41INTERESTING. AND AS YOU MENTIONED, SARAH
221. 5:42AND AS YOU MENTIONED, SARAH GRANT AND I WROTE THIS UP AND
222. 5:43GRANT AND I WROTE THIS UP AND PUT IT OUT THERE.
223. 5:46PUT IT OUT THERE. >> ON -- IN TERMS OF LOOKING
224. 5:47>> ON -- IN TERMS OF LOOKING BACK AT THIS AND SORT OF SEEING
225. 5:50BACK AT THIS AND SORT OF SEEING HOW PEOPLE HAVE DEALT WITH THIS
226. 5:51HOW PEOPLE HAVE DEALT WITH THIS BEFORE, WHAT MIGHT BE THE
227. 5:52BEFORE, WHAT MIGHT BE THE RELEVANT PRECEDENT OR THE
228. 5:54RELEVANT PRECEDENT OR THE LESSONS OF HISTORY HERE,
229. 5:55LESSONS OF HISTORY HERE, OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS A LESSON OF
230. 5:57OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS A LESSON OF HISTORY HERE IN TERMS OF NIXON.
231. 5:58HISTORY HERE IN TERMS OF NIXON. NIXON GETS CAUGHT FOR DOING
232. 6:00NIXON GETS CAUGHT FOR DOING THIS.
233. 6:00THIS. AS YOU SPELL OUT IN YOUR PIECE,
234. 6:02AS YOU SPELL OUT IN YOUR PIECE, ONE OF THE ARTICLES OF
235. 6:03ONE OF THE ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT IS BASED IN PART ON
236. 6:05IMPEACHMENT IS BASED IN PART ON HIM HAVING IMPROPER CONTACT WITH
237. 6:08HIM HAVING IMPROPER CONTACT WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ABOUT
238. 6:10THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ABOUT THIS ONGOING INVESTIGATION.
239. 6:11THIS ONGOING INVESTIGATION. >> RIGHT.
240. 6:11>> RIGHT. >> I WONDER, THOUGH, IF IT WAS
241. 6:13>> I WONDER, THOUGH, IF IT WAS ALSO IMPROPER FROM THE
242. 6:14ALSO IMPROPER FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE JUSTICE
243. 6:15PERSPECTIVE OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOR HENRY PETERSEN,
244. 6:17DEPARTMENT FOR HENRY PETERSEN, FOR THIS SENIOR JUSTICE
245. 6:18FOR THIS SENIOR JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL TO BE
246. 6:19DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL TO BE TALKING TO THE PRESIDENT.
247. 6:21TALKING TO THE PRESIDENT. CERTAINLY PETERSEN AT THE TIME
248. 6:22CERTAINLY PETERSEN AT THE TIME WAS PILLORIED FOR HAVING DONE
249. 6:24WAS PILLORIED FOR HAVING DONE THAT IT DIDN’T NECESSARILY LOOK
250. 6:25THAT IT DIDN’T NECESSARILY LOOK GOOD THAT HE HAD BEEN HAVING ALL
251. 6:27GOOD THAT HE HAD BEEN HAVING ALL THESE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE
252. 6:28THESE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT ABOUT THAT
253. 6:30PRESIDENT ABOUT THAT INVESTIGATION.
254. 6:30INVESTIGATION. HOW DO YOU VIEW THAT, LOOKING
255. 6:32HOW DO YOU VIEW THAT, LOOKING BACK ON IT?
256. 6:32BACK ON IT? >> I GUESS A COUPLE OF THINGS.
257. 6:34>> I GUESS A COUPLE OF THINGS. ONE IS I’M NOT A WATERGATE
258. 6:35ONE IS I’M NOT A WATERGATE HISTORIAN.
259. 6:36HISTORIAN. SARAH’S NOT A WATERGATE
260. 6:38SARAH’S NOT A WATERGATE HISTORIAN.
261. 6:38HISTORIAN. SO WE’RE NOT CAPABLE OF REALLY
262. 6:40SO WE’RE NOT CAPABLE OF REALLY MAKING A FULL ACCOUNTING OF
263. 6:41MAKING A FULL ACCOUNTING OF EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED HERE.
264. 6:42EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED HERE. THAT’S NUMBER ONE.
265. 6:43THAT’S NUMBER ONE. I MEAN, LOOK, IT DOES LOOK
266. 6:45I MEAN, LOOK, IT DOES LOOK ALARMING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS,
267. 6:47ALARMING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS, OF THE INTERACTIONS, BUT MR.
268. 6:49OF THE INTERACTIONS, BUT MR. PETERSEN DID NOT KNOW ALL THE
269. 6:51PETERSEN DID NOT KNOW ALL THE FACTS THAT WE KNOW NOW, RIGHT,
270. 6:53FACTS THAT WE KNOW NOW, RIGHT, IN TERMS OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT
271. 6:54IN TERMS OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT KNEW AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS
272. 6:56KNEW AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS AWARE OF AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT
273. 6:57AWARE OF AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS TRYING TO ACHIEVE THROUGH
274. 7:00WAS TRYING TO ACHIEVE THROUGH HIS INTERACTIONS WITH HIM.
275. 7:02HIS INTERACTIONS WITH HIM. IF YOU TAKE MR. PETERSEN’S
276. 7:05IF YOU TAKE MR. PETERSEN’S STATEMENTS AT FACE VALUE, AND HE
277. 7:06STATEMENTS AT FACE VALUE, AND HE WAS A MAN OF INTEGRITY FROM
278. 7:09WAS A MAN OF INTEGRITY FROM EVERYTHING I UNDERSTAND, SO I
279. 7:09EVERYTHING I UNDERSTAND, SO I TAKE THOSE AT FACE VALUE, HE
280. 7:11TAKE THOSE AT FACE VALUE, HE SAID LOOK, I WAS THE ASSISTANT
281. 7:13SAID LOOK, I WAS THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY IN THE CRIMINAL
282. 7:14ATTORNEY IN THE CRIMINAL DIVISION.
283. 7:15DIVISION. I FELT I HAD AN OBLIGATION TO
284. 7:17I FELT I HAD AN OBLIGATION TO INFORM THE PRESIDENT WHAT WAS
285. 7:19INFORM THE PRESIDENT WHAT WAS GOING ON.
286. 7:20GOING ON. I THINK IMPLICIT IN THAT IS HE
287. 7:22I THINK IMPLICIT IN THAT IS HE DIDN’T KNOW THE LEVEL OF THE
288. 7:23DIDN’T KNOW THE LEVEL OF THE PRESIDENT’S INVOLVEMENT IN THESE
289. 7:24PRESIDENT’S INVOLVEMENT IN THESE TYPES OF ACTIVITIES.
290. 7:25TYPES OF ACTIVITIES. HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THE
291. 7:26HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THE PRESIDENT’S MIND AT THE TIME.
292. 7:27PRESIDENT’S MIND AT THE TIME. HE DIDN’T KNOW HOW THE PRESIDENT
293. 7:28HE DIDN’T KNOW HOW THE PRESIDENT WAS TRYING TO MISUSE HIS
294. 7:31WAS TRYING TO MISUSE HIS INTERACTIONS WITH HENRY
295. 7:32INTERACTIONS WITH HENRY PETERSEN.
296. 7:32PETERSEN. SO I THINK YOU TO SORT OF GIVE
297. 7:34SO I THINK YOU TO SORT OF GIVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.
298. 7:35HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. AT THE SAME TIME, THOUGH, AS YOU
299. 7:38AT THE SAME TIME, THOUGH, AS YOU HIGHLIGHTED FROM THE PIECE,
300. 7:40HIGHLIGHTED FROM THE PIECE, THESE TYPES OF INTERACTIONS ARE
301. 7:43THESE TYPES OF INTERACTIONS ARE DANGEROUS FOR EVERYBODY.
302. 7:44DANGEROUS FOR EVERYBODY. THEY’RE DANGEROUS FOR THE
303. 7:45THEY’RE DANGEROUS FOR THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE THEY CAN LEAD
304. 7:46PRESIDENT BECAUSE THEY CAN LEAD DOWN THIS ROAD THAT WE SAW
305. 7:49DOWN THIS ROAD THAT WE SAW HAPPENED WITH PRESIDENT NIXON,
306. 7:51HAPPENED WITH PRESIDENT NIXON, AND THEY’RE ALSO POTENTIALLY
307. 7:53AND THEY’RE ALSO POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF
308. 7:55DANGEROUS FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, FOR THE INTEGRITY OF
309. 7:57JUSTICE, FOR THE INTEGRITY OF THE INVESTIGATION.
310. 7:57THE INVESTIGATION. AT LEAST ONE TIME SIGNIFICANTLY
311. 7:59AT LEAST ONE TIME SIGNIFICANTLY PRESIDENT NIXON SPECIFICALLY
312. 8:00PRESIDENT NIXON SPECIFICALLY TOLD HENRY PETERSEN DO NOT
313. 8:02TOLD HENRY PETERSEN DO NOT INVESTIGATE ANYTHING HAVING TO
314. 8:04INVESTIGATE ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH THE BREAK-IN AT DANIEL
315. 8:09DO WITH THE BREAK-IN AT DANIEL ELLSBERG’S PSYCHIATRIST OFFICE
316. 8:10ELLSBERG’S PSYCHIATRIST OFFICE WHEN PETERSEN TOLD NIXON THAT
317. 8:12WHEN PETERSEN TOLD NIXON THAT DEAN HAD TOLD THE PROSECUTORS
318. 8:14DEAN HAD TOLD THE PROSECUTORS ABOUT THAT.
319. 8:15ABOUT THAT. PRESIDENT NIXON SAID NO, STAY
320. 8:16PRESIDENT NIXON SAID NO, STAY AWAY I FROM THAT.
321. 8:17AWAY I FROM THAT. DO NOT INVESTIGATE THAT THAT’S
322. 8:19DO NOT INVESTIGATE THAT THAT’S OUTSIDE YOUR MANDATE.
323. 8:20OUTSIDE YOUR MANDATE. SO HE WAS ACTUALLY ABLE TO CON
324. 8:23SO HE WAS ACTUALLY ABLE TO CON STRICT SIGNIFICANTLY A PART OF
325. 8:24STRICT SIGNIFICANTLY A PART OF THE INVESTIGATION.
326. 8:25THE INVESTIGATION. SO IT’S DAVIS FOR ALL SIDES OF
327. 8:27SO IT’S DAVIS FOR ALL SIDES OF THE INVESTIGATION WHICH IS WHY
328. 8:29THE INVESTIGATION WHICH IS WHY OVER THE YEARS THERE HAS BEEN A
329. 8:30OVER THE YEARS THERE HAS BEEN A HISTORY SINCE WATERGATE, SINCE
330. 8:32HISTORY SINCE WATERGATE, SINCE THESE THINGS CAME TO LIGHT OF
331. 8:33THESE THINGS CAME TO LIGHT OF THE DEPARTMENT AND THE WHITE
332. 8:34THE DEPARTMENT AND THE WHITE HOUSE BEING VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT
333. 8:35HOUSE BEING VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT WHAT THE NATURE AND SCOPE OF THE
334. 8:38WHAT THE NATURE AND SCOPE OF THE INTERACTIONS BETWEEN THE TWO
335. 8:39INTERACTIONS BETWEEN THE TWO ORGANIZATIONS IS AND HOW THAT’S
336. 8:41ORGANIZATIONS IS AND HOW THAT’S REGULATED.
337. 8:42REGULATED. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU’VE GOT AN
338. 8:43ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU’VE GOT AN INVESTIGATION GOING ON THAT
339. 8:44INVESTIGATION GOING ON THAT TOUCHES THE WHITE HOUSE.
340. 8:45TOUCHES THE WHITE HOUSE. >> AS A REGULATED MATTER, AND
341. 8:47>> AS A REGULATED MATTER, AND I’M NOT ASKING YOU TO COMMENT ON
342. 8:49I’M NOT ASKING YOU TO COMMENT ON THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
343. 8:50THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SPECIFICALLY, I KNOW YOU’RE
344. 8:52SPECIFICALLY, I KNOW YOU’RE CONSTRAINED FROM BEING ABLE TO
345. 8:53CONSTRAINED FROM BEING ABLE TO DO THAT HERE.
346. 8:53DO THAT HERE. BUT AS A MATTER THAT YOU SAY IS
347. 8:56BUT AS A MATTER THAT YOU SAY IS REGULATED NOW IN TERMS OF
348. 8:57REGULATED NOW IN TERMS OF CONTACTS BETWEEN THE WHITE HOUSE
349. 8:58CONTACTS BETWEEN THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, IF
350. 9:00AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, IF THERE WERE VIOLATIONS ON THAT,
351. 9:01THERE WERE VIOLATIONS ON THAT, IF THERE WERE SOMEBODY AT A HIGH
352. 9:02IF THERE WERE SOMEBODY AT A HIGH LEVEL IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
353. 9:04LEVEL IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHO WAS HAVING SECRET
354. 9:06WHO WAS HAVING SECRET COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE WHITE
355. 9:07COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE WHITE HOUSE ABOUT AN INVESTIGATION
356. 9:08HOUSE ABOUT AN INVESTIGATION THAT INVOLVED THE WHITE HOUSE,
357. 9:09THAT INVOLVED THE WHITE HOUSE, THAT WOULD BE AGAINST JUSTICE
358. 9:11THAT WOULD BE AGAINST JUSTICE DEPARTMENT RULES.
359. 9:12DEPARTMENT RULES. THAT’S THE SORT OF THING THAT
360. 9:14THAT’S THE SORT OF THING THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT THE INSPECTOR
361. 9:15YOU WOULD EXPECT THE INSPECTOR GENERAL TO LOOK INTO IF THERE
362. 9:17GENERAL TO LOOK INTO IF THERE WERE CREDIBLE ALLEGATIONS OF
363. 9:18WERE CREDIBLE ALLEGATIONS OF THAT.
364. 9:19THAT. >> JUST SPEAKING HYPOTHETICALLY
365. 9:20>> JUST SPEAKING HYPOTHETICALLY AND GENERICALLY?
366. 9:21AND GENERICALLY? >> YES.
367. 9:21>> YES. >> POTENTIALLY, YES.
368. 9:23>> POTENTIALLY, YES. THE IG COULD LOOK AT THAT.
369. 9:24THE IG COULD LOOK AT THAT. THE IG HAS A BROAD SCOPE OF
370. 9:27THE IG HAS A BROAD SCOPE OF AUTHORITY AND COULD LOOK AT
371. 9:28AUTHORITY AND COULD LOOK AT THAT.
372. 9:28THAT. >> JAMES BAKER, FORMER GENERAL
373. 9:29>> JAMES BAKER, FORMER GENERAL COUNSEL OF THE FBI.
374. 9:30COUNSEL OF THE FBI. AGAIN, A MAN WHO DOES NOT DO
375. 9:32AGAIN, A MAN WHO DOES NOT DO INTRODUCE LIKE THIS.
376. 9:33INTRODUCE LIKE THIS. I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU MAKING
377. 9:34I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU MAKING TIME TO BE HERE AND TALKING TO
378. 9:36TIME TO BE HERE AND TALKING TO US ABOUT THIS PIECE.
379. 9:36US ABOUT THIS PIECE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
380. 9:37THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU, RACHEL.