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RGV on Tiger Shroff & the NEW Underworld — Transcript

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0:00For the last few days,
0:02I've been inundated by questions about a
0:04seismic event in Bollywood and Mumbai
0:06crime,
0:07which is the shooting of Tiger Shroff,
0:10the shooting incident.
0:12>> [snorts]
0:12>> Uh allegedly by the Lawrence Bishnoi
0:16gang.
0:17And this has really shaken up
0:20uh the country and Bollywood in
0:22particular because
0:24it raises the specter of the old D
0:26company and the Mumbai mafia and how
0:28they terrorized the entire country
0:30through high-profile shooting and
0:32intimidation and blackmail and
0:34extortion.
0:36This is
0:37on the surface, it's it is one isolated
0:40incident because it hasn't happened for
0:41a while now in this year.
0:43But there are many things that are
0:45connected. For instance, everybody is
0:48asking about why Tiger Shroff. Why him?
0:51Uh what is his connection with Salman
0:53Khan and why is it a problem for for
0:55Lawrence Bishnoi?
0:57And uh what really happened? Is that the
1:00real reason? And is and are we looking
1:02at the resurgence of
1:04another version of Mumbai mafia? You
1:06have a lot of questions.
1:08What you don't have is a friend like Ram
1:10Gopal Varma.
1:12Arguably,
1:13the top mind and expert on uh shootings
1:17of all kind, be it Bollywood shooting or
1:19the mafia shooting. So I'm going to do
1:21you guys a favor
1:22and pin him down
1:23>> [sighs]
1:24>> to talk about what he thinks about this
1:26incident and give us our insights.
1:28And I'm I'm telling you I've been
1:30hanging out with him and this is going
1:32to be really really interesting. You are
1:34going to
1:35get a fresh perspective about what is
1:37happening.
1:38Hopefully that'll help you.
1:40And let's welcome now Mr. Ram Gopal
1:42Varma. Ramu sub,
1:43>> You are making me feel like the shooter.
1:47For want of a better word.
1:49>> Well, I can't think of any other person
1:51who straddles both worlds, you know,
1:53shooting in Bollywood
1:55about shooting in mafia and stuff. So
1:57before I go into
1:58uh
1:59the incident itself, I want to ask you
2:01about something. So, we've been hanging
2:03out for the past 2 3 days and
2:05I noticed that you keep getting calls
2:07from everybody in Bollywood asking you
2:10what you think about this incident. Why
2:12is that? Why is everybody asking you
2:14this?
2:15>> see, I think it's partly because they
2:17believe that I I have a fair
2:19understanding because of the films I've
2:21made or maybe
2:24uh seeing my past interviews when I talk
2:26about the mafia.
2:28I think uh probably that it will be that
2:31and I'm associated quite a bit with cops
2:33and other than they might be thinking I
2:35have some inside information.
2:38And uh the overall understanding I have
2:41of the so-called world underworld hm or
2:44organized crime, they would say. I think
2:46it's that, yeah.
2:47>> So, again, picking up from what you've
2:49just said, you you said you have you're
2:51connected to police and
2:54uh the crime world as well. How does
2:56that happen because you're not a
2:57journalist?
2:58>> Hm.
2:59>> How do you have connections which are
3:00arguably deeper than than crime
3:02reporters?
3:03>> See, there are two things. If if you if
3:05you look at it, when I made Satya, I
3:07really didn't have I was just picking
3:09out things from uh the newspaper
3:12stories, for example, you know?
3:14So, when I see a picture of uh gangsters
3:17being caught and the police are
3:19displaying them uh in a media press
3:21meet.
3:22And they they're under this black cloth,
3:24you know? So, they don't want to be
3:26identified.
3:27My first thing I observed is that their
3:29thin arms. They don't look like a
3:31prototype uh
3:32of guys we show in films. They look like
3:35very ordinary people, you know?
3:38And uh so, that kind of sparked my
3:40interest. So, when you're reading a
3:41novel or when you're watching a film or
3:43when you're
3:44uh probably uh noticing something in TV,
3:47the news coming. We all have this kind
3:50of a morbid fascination for the dark
3:52side of the human being.
3:54I don't think it it's about me. Every
3:56one of us, which is the reason the news
3:58cycle all the time feeds us that.
4:00>> Yeah.
4:01>> You know?
4:01See, if you look at it, it's it's not we
4:04you you have a kind of a you don't want
4:07to admit the word in so many words. You
4:08have a grudging admiration.
4:10>> Yeah.
4:10>> You don't load them. That's the
4:12important uh
4:13>> Yeah.
4:13>> Why a Godfather has a resonance across
4:16the world when it's about uh
4:18people in a organized crime family. And
4:21why why why do they almost become role
4:23models? You know, you quote Michael
4:25Corleone, you quote Don Corleone.
4:28So, I think it is that.
4:30>> All right.
4:31>> But, having said that, uh
4:33over a period of time,
4:35I mean, depending on the place,
4:37depending on what they do exactly, there
4:39are
4:40uh so many things which change, you
4:43know?
4:43>> Mhm.
4:45>> If they're killing a person you don't
4:46want to be killed, you have a different
4:48thing.
4:49If they're killing a person, probably
4:50the law cannot do anything about they
4:52kill, they become heroes, which is which
4:54is the reason most of the big stars,
4:56they're actually anti-heroes.
4:57>> Mhm.
4:58>> They take law into their hands, they
5:00beat up people, they kill people, and
5:02the audience are clapping all the time.
5:04And they're not saying that they're
5:05doing something against the law. They're
5:07actually criminals. Most of the uh roles
5:09which the stars do.
5:10>> Yeah.
5:11>> Right. So,
5:12uh
5:13okay, we'll get more into your uh
5:15connections with uh police and and the
5:18world [snorts] and stuff.
5:19So, I'll tell you briefly I'll recap
5:21what has been
5:22reported about this incident with Tiger
5:24Shroff. Tiger was
5:26had just finished an event, a football
5:28event [clears throat] in Juhu. And he
5:30>> Yeah.
5:30>> sat in his car and he was going out and
5:32as happens, there was a line of
5:34fans on either end
5:36taking pictures and this, that, the
5:37other. Suddenly, shots rang out.
5:40Uh and uh it's caught on camera and
5:42there are two kids or two very, as you
5:45say, lanky, thin guys with thin arms.
5:47Look very normal. They don't look like a
5:49gangster or anything, but they're doing
5:50something that is
5:52shocking and confusing for everybody.
5:54Uh
5:56three, four shots are fired.
5:57>> Mhm.
5:58>> And I think the most important shot was
6:00not fired
6:01because the gun jammed.
6:02>> Yeah.
6:03>> [snorts]
6:03>> And there was pandemonium and chaos and
6:05something happened and suddenly Tiger is
6:08behind the wheel and he zooms off.
6:11Uh
6:12that has been reported. Okay?
6:15Uh
6:16what do you think
6:17>> Mhm.
6:18>> happened? Why do you think this has
6:19happened?
6:20>> I mean, this is something you've seen
6:21because captured on camera and all that
6:23and I don't know which part of the
6:24question you want me to focus on.
6:27>> I'm saying this is this is the
6:29probably the tail end of something that
6:31has been brewing or happening.
6:33>> Yeah. You see, now from all reports,
6:36what one gets, there was no lead up.
6:38Like in the '90s, when the underworld
6:40was very active, there was a lot of
6:42lead. There used to be demand for
6:44extortion. There used to be demand for
6:45doing something, not doing something.
6:48And it will always have a lead to an
6:50incident like this taking place.
6:52>> Mhm.
6:53>> Here, apparently, there is no lead right
6:55at least to our knowledge. As so far as
6:57the information goes, there was no
6:59threat call, there was no nothing. It
7:01came at random.
7:02Now, why would that come
7:04is because, see, if you look at the
7:07larger part of it, now they are almost
7:10talking like patriots. No, they are
7:12interested in the country. They're
7:13interested in the injustice of what
7:15happened to Sushant Singh Rajput.
7:18And they're they're putting an
7:20allegation as if Salman Khan is mixed up
7:22with some people anti-nationalism.
7:26So, you see,
7:27now first of all, let us
7:29differentiate between crime and
7:30organized crime. No, crime is something
7:32which you're doing against the law.
7:34Maybe indulging in violence or anything.
7:37Organized crime is you're actually
7:38understanding the loopholes of the
7:40system and how to
7:42bypass the law and to make money or name
7:45or whatever gain for yourself in a very
7:49organized way, which is the reason it is
7:50more difficult to contain unlike an
7:52ordinary normal crime. All right. You
7:54know?
7:55But organized crime in the '90s was
7:57about money, about real estate, about
7:59property, about
8:00probably something like that.
8:01>> Distribution rights.
8:02>> Yeah, well, yeah. Anything to do with
8:03business.
8:05You know?
8:05Now, that slightly changed at a time
8:08when there's a split between Dawood
8:10Ibrahim and Chota Rajan.
8:12And suddenly we start calling him the
8:13patriot don because
8:14>> Chota Rajan.
8:15>> the Pakistan angle came because of the
8:17'93 blasts. And Chota Rajan being a
8:19Hindu, the Hindu-Muslim thing was
8:21brewing up and that conveniently took it
8:24one one to one way.
8:26But once that phase was over,
8:29today if you look at it, if you look at
8:31that guy talking,
8:33you know, I I see it is just an
8:35extension of the social media hatred.
8:37The social media guys put tweets and all
8:40that. Boycott Bollywood, all that venom
8:43they spew out.
8:44>> Mhm.
8:45>> That became bullets here. If you look at
8:46it.
8:47>> All right. Okay, so this is probably
8:49>> Yeah, and they're talking in the same
8:50language. My whole point is that.
8:52>> Okay.
8:52>> Now, without knowing anything about what
8:54happened to Sushant Singh Rajput,
8:56>> Mhm.
8:56>> they say boycott Bollywood, they do
8:58this, they do that.
9:00All that it is coming as a violent
9:03words. Now, this came in form of
9:05bullets. I am not saying that is the
9:07reason.
9:07>> All right.
9:08>> But they're talking in the same
9:10language.
9:11See, here now the point is now if you
9:14look at a Bishnoi angle,
9:15>> Mhm.
9:16>> that's like a bad '70s script.
9:19>> [snorts]
9:19>> It It We used to have films where this
9:22guy as a kid sees his father being
9:25murdered, he grows up, wants to take
9:27revenge on the thing. That is a '70s
9:28script, you know?
9:30Now, this goes further. He's taking
9:32revenge for a deer.
9:33>> Yeah.
9:34>> And when he was some eight or nine when
9:37Salman shot supposedly shot that deer.
9:40And he's waited for till he's become
9:42some 20 25 or whatever to start taking
9:45revenge for that. So does he mean that
9:48or is it just like that he's saying it
9:50for effect? That you will never know.
9:52You know?
9:53>> What is your point on this?
9:54>> But the point is
9:56that is gaining him enough followers.
9:58>> Yeah.
9:59Why do you think
10:00uh
10:01somebody came in all the Bishnoi gang or
10:03Goldy said I'm responsible for this.
10:05Why? They could have done the same phone
10:07call to Jackie
10:08and said, "You know what? This was me.
10:10Now give me money." So why are people
10:11>> So why? I'll tell you why. Because they
10:13need a brand.
10:14>> Okay.
10:14>> The whole exercise is about to create a
10:17brand. See, if you create a certain any
10:20criminal gang sells fear.
10:21>> Mhm.
10:22>> And to sell anything you need a brand.
10:25So that people will know who who's
10:26behind this.
10:27>> Mhm.
10:28>> If I make a call uh suppose somebody
10:30makes a call to you and says
10:32uh "Mujhe paise de. Mera Mera naam
10:34Altaf." Now if you never heard of Altaf,
10:36who you will say?
10:38But if I'm the Bishnoi gang, now you
10:39know the background.
10:40>> Yeah.
10:41>> So that is what is the brand.
10:42>> Okay.
10:42>> So in the '90s the D company was a
10:44brand.
10:44>> Mhm.
10:45>> Goli gang.
10:45>> Mhm.
10:46>> Chhota Rajan gang. You know? So they
10:48have to do something. This is like a
10:51trailer for them. The film is what their
10:53business is.
10:53>> Mhm.
10:53>> Mhm.
10:54>> Mhm.
10:54>> So in the
10:55>> They can just call this a trailer. Uh
10:56something
10:57>> is a This is a trailer, yeah.
10:58So this is like a commercial.
11:00>> Mhm.
11:00>> You know? Why do terrorists create
11:03I mean exploding bombs? They're
11:05commercials.
11:06>> Yeah.
11:07>> The real cause is what they want to gain
11:08through that. But to make their presence
11:11feel
11:12>> Yeah.
11:12>> felt and I'm there I'm here and to draw
11:15attention is what a trailer does. To
11:17attention to the film is the trailer.
11:19You know? Like there was a saying in in
11:21the '90s "Ek ko maro das se paise lo."
11:24>> Mhm.
11:25Okay.
11:26>> So the other 10 won't give money unless
11:28one is dead.
11:28>> Yeah.
11:29>> So that is about the seriousness of the
11:31threat.
11:32>> Yeah.
11:33>> So, at other thing is see no criminal
11:36ever thinks he's doing a bad thing. At
11:38least he doesn't want people to believe
11:40my crime kar raha hoon
11:42ya main kuch galat kar raha hoon. Nobody
11:44will think like that.
11:45>> Mhm.
11:46>> Because if they think like that they
11:47can't do it.
11:47>> Yeah.
11:48>> They will have a justification in their
11:49head. Or they want to tell others about
11:52their justification.
11:52>> Mhm.
11:53>> So, they used to say
12:00And because of that if you kill them
12:02it's not That is what the regular
12:03justification
12:05>> Vigilante.
12:05>> for most of the Not even vigilante.
12:07Vigilante is just about one or two
12:08people.
12:09>> Yeah.
12:10>> Even they're they're fighting. So, they
12:12think of themselves as rebels.
12:13>> Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.
12:15>> See, I don't think there's much of a
12:16difference between the Naxalites
12:18thinking that they are overthrowing the
12:20government because they believe the
12:22government is wrong.
12:23>> Yeah.
12:24>> So, a criminal organization thinks
12:25similarly.
12:27>> Mhm.
12:27>> You know? Without that internal
12:29justification, they cannot become cannot
12:32do that in the first place, you know?
12:33So, then coming to this
12:36Now, one is you can say I'm directly
12:39wanting money.
12:40>> Mhm.
12:41>> Mhm. I want to create fear.
12:43So, that becomes like a very obvious way
12:46of describing a criminal.
12:47>> Mhm.
12:48>> But I'm doing it to get justice. Justice
12:50for Sushant Singh or justice for this.
12:53I'm going to fight the people who are
12:54mixed up with the Dawood gang.
12:56>> Yeah.
12:56>> That is going to give them a moral
12:58justification and most people take it
13:00more seriously whether they mean it or
13:01not.
13:01>> Especially in this case, he's not asking
13:04for money. He's asking for an apology
13:05from Salman Khan.
13:06>> Mhm.
13:07>> That is probably
13:09>> And he's And he's very sure that it will
13:11never come not for any other reason
13:14because see that will be like a complete
13:16surrender to a criminal organization.
13:18>> Yeah.
13:19>> And nobody will be able to will will do
13:22that.
13:22>> All right.
13:23>> You know? And that doesn't mean that
13:25he'll be stopped. He can take up another
13:27cause after that.
13:28>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:29>> He wants to continue. Salman is not the
13:30only person. Maybe he wants to say I
13:32will do something else. Yeah.
13:34And now the other bigger question is
13:36whether Bishnoi is really connected or
13:38not. You can't be sure of that also
13:40because underworld works in very
13:42fragments. Nobody knows who called whom.
13:45I'll tell you one more
13:47important thing. There was three boys
13:49who came and shot. Most of the time in
13:52high-profile cases, they take amateurs.
13:56The reason for that is uh
13:58Professionals by definition will have
14:00more experience and more experienced
14:01people will have more inroads into the
14:03organization. So, if they are caught
14:05>> Yeah.
14:05>> they can spill out a lot of things to
14:07the police which will harm the
14:08organization.
14:09Amateurs will have no connection to to
14:11the they do you can do you can do and
14:13they are just given a small gun and do
14:15it. Even if they are caught and they are
14:17interrogated, nothing much will happen
14:19because it operates on links and one
14:21link they'll remove in between.
14:23And they can never prove the actual
14:25connection.
14:26Now, the irony is in '90s
14:29police always used to say Abu Salem is
14:32somewhere. Dawood is in Karachi and this
14:35guy is in Malaysia. That guy is in this
14:37we can't find them.
14:38Now, here the boss is already there
14:40inside in the custody of the police for
14:42the last 10-15 years.
14:44And he is claiming but he is claiming
14:46not in a directly. He is saying I know
14:48of it.
14:50>> Okay.
14:50>> Claiming he's doing a crime is not a
14:52crime.
14:53The police have to prove
14:55whether he's actually involved or not.
14:57That is not going to happen.
14:58>> Okay.
14:59>> You know.
14:59So, then Bishnoi safely becomes a brand
15:02which cannot be touched.
15:03>> All right.
15:04>> Now, Bishnoi group gone.
15:06So, the guys that are outside are
15:07vulnerable to arrest, are vulnerable to
15:09getting caught.
15:11So, this is a very new kind of and you
15:12see it is not that happened for the
15:13first time.
15:15Like for example, Goli used to operate
15:16from inside. Many many people Bablu
15:18Srivastava used to operate from inside.
15:21Sitting in the jail and running criminal
15:23organization is not at all a new thing.
15:25It happened many times.
15:27But here because of Bishnoi's
15:29personality and saying it out and
15:32claiming it so publicly
15:35and giving things like Kiran ka badla de
15:37raha hoon, that is a novelty. That is
15:39the rhetoric which is actually making
15:40the the modus operandi is not new at
15:42all.
15:43>> So, something is different here.
15:46What you're saying is there is
15:48probably because of social media being a
15:50contributing not exclusive but like a
15:53major thing the narrative has been
15:54controlled and stuff.
15:56Your this is what has been reported and
15:59this is your insight on that. Now, I'll
16:00push you a little bit. I know you're not
16:02in touch with anybody in the in that
16:05side of life.
16:06But what would be
16:08the thought process of Lawrence Bishnoi
16:11gang
16:12to say this is what we're going to do
16:15and this is what we how we're going to
16:16take the
16:18responsibility and this is what how we
16:20will drive the narrative. What is the
16:22thinking that these guys go through?
16:24>> I mean the thinking is like any
16:26entrepreneur.
16:28If you if you're sitting down and having
16:30a plan this is my situation.
16:33And like you know to see till the till
16:35the time Dawood Ibrahim came up with an
16:37idea of operating from abroad. Nobody
16:39thought of it.
16:41Neither Karim Lala nor Mastan or
16:43Varadarajan none of them thought.
16:44Eventually every everything comes with a
16:46new thought. That is what
16:47entrepreneurship is about.
16:49An entrepreneurship also can be in
16:50organized crime.
16:52You know.
16:53Imagine to my knowledge though the
16:55Italian immigrants started the American
16:57mafia,
16:58they were not controlling it from Italy.
17:01The bosses were in America.
17:03First time it happened in history where
17:05the bosses are operating from abroad
17:09and the shooters are operating from
17:11locally. That was a brainchild of D
17:14Company. Okay. Before that it never
17:16happened. And and now the same thing is
17:19repeating. Some Goldies in Canada. Some
17:22other guy is in somewhere else in
17:24America.
17:26So I think what has worked for them in
17:28Punjab with the Sidhu Moose Wala case
17:31and whatever that shootout happened in
17:33Delhi,
17:34I think they're trying to get that
17:36model here to Bombay.
17:39Why? Because Bombay especially because
17:41of the film industry, the publicity will
17:44be much more. In terms of the what
17:46they'll get at their brand
17:48thing. So after this if they call
17:50businessman
17:52and
17:54all that in the breadth of her breathing
17:56the Tiger Shroff also they can get to
17:59who are we.
18:00That is what they want to create.
18:03And with that [clears throat] they will
18:04make make the their money
18:06and the least most dispensable people
18:09are the shooters because they're the
18:11cheapest to get and they will know the
18:13least about the organization. Yeah.
18:15>> So one thing that you
18:16have said and maintained is that there
18:18can be no mafia without police.
18:20>> Huh?
18:21>> Right?
18:22>> Without police I won't say that I see
18:24the whole point if they're a part of
18:26society
18:27they cannot be a mafia without us also
18:29without I mean normal people.
18:31>> Yeah.
18:32>> See where does a mafia come in? Because
18:35we are when we are unhappy with the
18:36existing system.
18:38You have a dispute of a land land
18:40somebody has grabbed.
18:42You know, or something is happening. You
18:45when the courts are going to take their
18:46own time. The courts you believe can be
18:48manipulated. Maybe other guy has more
18:50money to pay the
18:52lawyer or maybe get a better lawyer.
18:55But your emotion of anger, your emotion
18:57of desire or your compulsion it will
19:00make you go to a parallel force
19:03who can operate outside the law. That is
19:05where their power comes from.
19:07Which will be the same thing for the
19:09police also. Political Political guys
19:11also will need
19:13cuz they can't do certain dirty work.
19:14>> Yeah.
19:15>> They need to be clean because of their
19:17image.
19:19You know? So, everybody needs an
19:21alternative force, and how much that is
19:23is the whole point of the thing.
19:25>> Okay.
19:25So, that is one part of it, but running
19:28an international
19:30organization from within a jail
19:32>> Mhm.
19:34>> sounds very
19:35uh
19:36fantastical. It sounds almost
19:38impossible. I mean, for a guy like me
19:40>> You see, first of all, this is the
19:42organization. It sounds very big as a
19:44word. There's nothing really.
19:46>> All right.
19:47>> It's actually on the phone. You need to
19:48have one phone. You don't need to have
19:50an office, also.
19:51So, organization sounds very corporate
19:53to hear. International, what is
19:55international? International is a phone
19:56call.
19:56>> Yeah.
19:57>> You know? So, the guy making a phone
19:59call from Canada could be in a motel.
20:01He doesn't need to have a large office
20:03and
20:04hierarchy of CEOs and CFOs. That is not
20:06how it operates.
20:07>> Okay.
20:08>> In fact, I remember a very senior police
20:10officer told me in the height of
20:13activities of the '90s.
20:14>> Mhm.
20:16>> He one day asked me, "How many people do
20:17you think D Company have?" You know?
20:19I said, "Maybe 2, 3,000." I said, "I
20:21said, upper limit there will be 20
20:23people." He said.
20:25Because the bigger the organization, the
20:27more easier it will be caught.
20:28>> Yeah.
20:29>> Too many mouths to control.
20:32On the other hand, many people or D
20:34Company, they won't even know they're
20:35working for D Company.
20:37>> Okay.
20:37>> So, suddenly you come to me with a
20:39proposal.
20:40You say, "My name is Rajiv, and this and
20:42that." And I was I said, "Okay.
20:44How will I know if you're connected to D
20:46Company?
20:48Or how will you know? The person who
20:50connected you will know.
20:52So, organized crime works on secrecy. It
20:54doesn't advertise. What it advertises
20:57only the brand. D Company got me. That
20:59is to instill fear.
21:01It is not paperwork done. D Company
21:03doesn't sign agreements. No, that is not
21:05how it happens.
21:07So, the international organization is
21:09nothing but a call getting from another
21:11country. Beyond that there won't be any
21:13organization.
21:15I know of a very senior, I mean, very
21:16dreaded gangster who used to operate
21:19alone with his girlfriend.
21:22Nobody was there. Nobody know I mean,
21:24they know him. They know of him and all
21:26that.
21:27But because of yeah. In fact, one cop
21:29told me the gangster
21:32like Dawood Ibrahim is big because he's
21:34on the
21:36If he lives in Bandra, nobody will be
21:38scared. With the same power.
21:41You know, because of the mystery,
21:42mysteriousness of it is what which
21:44creates that aura.
21:45>> All right.
21:46>> Yeah.
21:47Some Goldie Brar is in Canada. It scares
21:50you.
21:51You know? But if Goldie Brar is in
21:53Hungary east of
22:00And Lawrence Bishnoi also. Because the
22:02jail also is like another world.
22:04Jails of Jails operate you know?
22:07But if he says he's operating from the
22:09Trishul building in Juhu, it won't be it
22:11won't be scary.
22:13>> [laughter]
22:14>> In the 90s, I want to talk about a bit
22:16about how they what is their funding,
22:17where it comes from usually property
22:20deals or something extortion and stuff.
22:23How is this company the new kind of and
22:26I'll get into what your thoughts are on
22:28the resurgence of a new kind of
22:30mafia, but what is their funding
22:33mechanism? Where where are they getting
22:34their money from? How do they have like
22:36donors?
22:37>> Well, see to start with, why does
22:38underworld need See, they don't need to
22:41summon to give the funds. They get the
22:43funds out of threats.
22:44The extortion is basically that only,
22:46you know? You know? In fact,
22:49this whole thing of the underworld
22:50finances film, that's all If
22:52underworld also has to fund, then why
22:54why should it be the underworld?
22:55>> Yeah.
22:56True.
22:57>> You know, the underworld it it can
23:00make people work under threat,
23:03under fear, under intimidation, you
23:05know?
23:05>> So, after this
23:06>> So, but what happens is lots of times
23:08they tend to favor, see for example, a
23:10producer it can't get the dates of a
23:13sellable actor.
23:15A call from them might make that happen,
23:17which used to happen. It's not that it
23:19didn't happen, you know?
23:20But they're doing that as a favor
23:22because their name doesn't come
23:24as a producer.
23:25And they're not getting on a legitimate
23:27source that they have to make profits
23:28out of it, you know?
23:30Most of the time they use film industry
23:32for publicity.
23:33They're not really as a business model.
23:36You know? Even in 90s I'm talking about.
23:38They never made money except for in
23:40extortion.
23:41Extortion can be a way of coming to
23:42anybody.
23:43>> Can you tell me kind of an incident from
23:45the 90s where this kind of favor turning
23:48into
23:49some kind of publicity or some kind of
23:51funding?
23:52>> About everything. See, if you look at it
23:55the one of the biggest examples is Mr.
23:57Gulshan Kumar.
24:00Because he was [clears throat] such a
24:00big man and him being gunned down
24:03created a terror in the industry that
24:06a man like Gulshan Kumar cannot is not
24:09spared. That overnight made Abu Salem
24:12the biggest don. People forgot even
24:14Dawood Ibrahim during that time period.
24:17That's not because Abu Salem, it's
24:18because of Mr. Gulshan Kumar.
24:22So, the bigger So, the same thing is
24:23happening now. I see now you you are
24:26deciding to make an example of somebody.
24:29You want to make it a
24:30Then you have to make a choice.
24:33Now, Salman Khan is highly protected
24:35since the point of time of
24:37I mean Baba Siddique or whatever
24:39whatever happened at that time.
24:41So, now in the given lot if you write a
24:43list,
24:44it is possible Tiger Shroff could be the
24:45least protected. I really don't know.
24:47I'm just speculating, you know?
24:49But you need a name big enough to create
24:50that tremor, you know?
24:52So, Tiger Shroff is a star, son of know,
24:55Shroff and this and that and know, and
24:58if that guy also can be targeted, who
25:00are you?
25:02So, yesterday I heard
25:05one director was told me that some young
25:07star came to meet him and he had two
25:10vehicles of security people with him.
25:13Now, this exactly what they want.
25:17How many people can afford to have two
25:18vehicles of security?
25:21It's not possible. You know, and it's
25:23not necessary that the security people
25:25can actually save you.
25:26>> The big question now is why Tiger
25:29Shroff?
25:30>> See, to start with
25:33the guy who's made that decision or
25:35whatever,
25:36you know, whole film industry will be
25:39with each other. It's not like you know,
25:40how close one is to whom is a different
25:42point.
25:45You know?
25:47Their intention is not about Salman.
25:50Their intention is to create fear.
25:53In the course of that, whatever they've
25:55done to give some reason or the other,
25:58it is this.
25:58>> Is there a chance that
26:00that it just happened? Somebody had some
26:02other problem with Tiger. Somebody else
26:04shot it and somebody else
26:05[clears throat] took credit to give
26:07>> It can highly happen. That's how it
26:08happens. See, it's also the personality
26:11of the gangster
26:13who actually made that choice of why.
26:16You know, jealousy is a very strong
26:19emotion in human beings.
26:22You know?
26:22I I remember reading a line, I never
26:25kill a person, but I read a lot of
26:27obituaries with great pleasure.
26:32So, where does that come to?
26:33Even in the '90s, internal jealousy in
26:36the film industry
26:37played a major role in the proliferation
26:40of the underworld.
26:41Because they used to pass on
26:43information.
26:44Because one producer is jealous of
26:46another producer and he will give some
26:47information to them.
26:49He might not even know exactly what it
26:51will result in by the
26:53>> [laughter]
26:53>> by the end of it.
26:55Cuz human beings talk to human beings
26:56and we all express uh about our
26:59frustrations and all that.
27:01And sometimes there could be murder
27:03which happened. Lot of people don't like
27:05him and they might be happy about it.
27:07You know?
27:08So in the context of that when you're
27:09giving that power and and underworld is
27:11crazy about publicity.
27:13Like one gangster I know who called an
27:15actor
27:19He was talking to my wife.
27:20So he's a human being at the end of the
27:22day and if you put a man in that kind of
27:24a seat is bound to
27:27get attracted.
27:28So the interesting thing is to examine
27:31why Tiger Shroff.
27:33Yes, you need one big name. You need a
27:36popular name which the media will
27:37immediately blow it up.
27:40Out of that choice, what are the people
27:42available? How many people have how much
27:45security? One.
27:47Second is in that time one one
27:49particular gang to take money from
27:51everybody except
27:54Why? Because he's a fan of Nana Patekar.
27:57So that is his personal trait. There is
27:59no logic or anything for that.
28:01You know?
28:02So in in that context one is uh
28:06maybe
28:07in the available people
28:09the best choice they had was Tiger.
28:12Why? For the express purpose nothing to
28:14do with Salman. To create a fear
28:16atmosphere in the industry and to use
28:18that.
28:19Second can be for some reason he doesn't
28:23like Tiger.
28:25You know? Not necessarily do anything to
28:27do with personal.
28:28He could be just jealous that he's a
28:29boyfriend of Disha Patani.
28:31I I won't be surprised at that also
28:33because they're people at the end of the
28:34day.
28:36I know how gangsters talk.
28:38I mean we both
28:40it's like you know you are you are
28:41having the power with you to make a
28:44choice and you make a decision based on
28:46something as simple as this. Okay.
28:48>> You uh
28:50>> Or it can be that he's got such a great
28:51body and this lady doesn't have.
28:53>> You see?
28:54>> I mean, both father's money to go to the
28:56gym. You know, this and that. It could
28:57be It could be anything.
28:59And most of the time, I I honestly
29:02believe this. Even social psychologists
29:05The criminal is a mind of a child. See,
29:07children
29:09they feel they're center of the
29:10universe.
29:11>> Mhm.
29:12>> They demand without understanding the
29:14practical realities. And as we grow up,
29:16we slowly understand the realities of
29:18life and we understand and we kind of
29:21discover our place in the hierarchy of
29:23life.
29:24>> Mhm.
29:24>> A gangster's child will refuse to grow.
29:26Well, what you tell me is what you tell
29:27me.
29:32So, to think of them as a very
29:35logical-minded
29:36that is the fundamental mistake we make
29:38about a criminal organization.
29:39>> You had mentioned one
29:42incident
29:43without taking names that there was this
29:47the contract hit on a superstar.
29:50>> Without taking the name, so there's a
29:52big star and he was called Crime Branch
29:54called him.
29:56And we have confirmed news that there is
29:58a contract out to kill you.
30:01You know? And the killers are already in
30:04place.
30:05You know?
30:06So, who is that? Who will give you a
30:08contract? So, I said, "I have no idea.
30:10You You're telling me now?"
30:12I mean, but why will somebody want to
30:14kill you unless there is some problem
30:15with before you with someone else. You
30:18know? He said, "No, I have no problem
30:20with anybody. Maybe you you They asked
30:22you give dates and you didn't give." I
30:24mean, that happens all the time, but no
30:25none of them can reach to this.
30:28So, who were you having an affair with
30:29these days?
30:31So, he said, "What do you mean?" See, we
30:33don't have any interest in your personal
30:35things, but the point is there are some
30:37women who are connected to them.
30:39And if you You an affair and you dumped
30:41her. She could enslave them.
30:44I We wanted everything to know
30:45everything so that we can investigate
30:47every angle.
30:49He said, "No."
30:50"No, I don't have an affair. This I was
30:52telling you for your benefit, uh, not
30:53for our personal interest." No matter
30:56what they say. Finally, they gave him
30:57two gunmen.
30:58And as they came out,
31:00he got a call from the
31:02that guy, you know.
31:05"As I know that you are with the police,
31:07uh, you know,
31:09last night in the night I,
31:11when I was drunk, this guy someone told
31:13me you don't do namaz. I got upset and
31:16put out a contract to kill you,
31:18you know, but now in the morning I
31:19canceled it."
31:21>> [laughter]
31:21>> No, see, it can't But But if you look at
31:24it, it can't be that simple.
31:26>> Yeah.
31:27>> See, when you have the power of God with
31:29you,
31:30you would use it indiscriminately.
31:32>> Yeah.
31:33>> So, in that context, now then later I
31:35got to know about this superstar.
31:38Another guy told me it's got nothing to
31:40do with that guy. I haven't been drunk
31:42and all that. Lots of times the police
31:44keep tapping phones.
31:45And the underworld doesn't know which
31:47phones are tapped.
31:47>> Mhm.
31:49>> So, the only way to find out is they
31:50will leak out some information.
31:52>> Okay.
31:52>> I just go murder.
31:53They'll say.
31:54>> Mhm.
31:55>> Now, the intelligence will take that and
31:56immediately provide security. And they
31:58see the security, they know that phone
31:59is tapped.
32:00>> Okay. Okay.
32:01>> So, these lot of these games and all
32:03that they'll be playing and they'll be
32:04having fun in between.
32:06>> Yeah.
32:07>> You know, I know gangsters used to have
32:08a comedy record. Like they used to
32:11entertain people
32:12>> Mhm.
32:13>> making girls and friends sit down and
32:15make a call to one of the stars or big
32:17guys and threatening him and they all
32:19used to laugh holding their stomach.
32:21Yeah.
32:22>> [laughter]
32:23>> But that is being human, no? No, just
32:25because you're a gangster, you don't
32:26stop becoming a human. It's like a prank
32:29you're playing.
32:29>> Yeah. Yeah. See, here is where you stand
32:32apart from police, from investigators,
32:36from journalists, crime reporters, and
32:38everything. They will report on Okay,
32:40this is what has happened. It's an
32:41international crime syndicate and this,
32:42that, the other. Yeah. What you're
32:44telling me is very different and
32:46actually it makes way more sense
32:49than than this international
32:52multinational
32:52>> I'll tell you, because you're connected
32:54to this human being.
32:55>> Yeah.
32:56>> Then now you suddenly realize if you
32:58were a gangster, probably you would do
32:59it, too.
33:00>> Yeah.
33:01>> You know, [laughter] that is the that is
33:02the connect.
33:02>> Yeah.
33:03>> And people see Satya and they say
33:06it is so real. How do you know it is
33:08real? You never met a gangster.
33:10Because they see themselves in the
33:12characters and because of they think
33:13it's real, which is true, also. Yeah.
33:16>> Uh coming to
33:18uh
33:19what you said that they hire amateurs.
33:23That is a innovation. It used to
33:25Earlier there used to be celebrated
33:27gunmen, right?
33:27>> Not really.
33:28>> No?
33:29>> See,
33:30shooters will never be celebrated.
33:32Because see, if you look at it, the
33:34shooter is the least important cog.
33:37Why? Because
33:39it's it's like, you know, he's the
33:41nearest to the crime.
33:43And the underworld wants to be
33:45disassociated with that part of it
33:47because their strength goes off if they
33:49can be directly connected to the crime.
33:51>> Yeah.
33:52>> So what they typically do
33:54is first a guy gets a call, maybe in UP
33:56or Bihar or something. And he'll be some
33:58small-time rowdy sheeter.
34:00Maybe one or two small cases.
34:05There will company mil jayega. No,
34:06company is a ban.
34:08So then that guy is asked to come
34:10to Bombay.
34:11To a train pakad.
34:13So go to Bandra, this one.
34:15And to
34:17bus stand ke paas ek green shirt mein ek
34:20aadmi milega.
34:22Tu usko tera naam Altaf bol. See, this
34:25guy's name could be Muhammad.
34:27That guy will say his name is some
34:30Shakawat and he'll give you something
34:31else.
34:32Then one one Muslim woman with a burka
34:35will come and give them a box or a
34:37packet and she doesn't know what's in
34:39the packet. She's only told to give this
34:41packet.
34:43They open that and there is some gun in
34:45that.
34:46Then there another guy will call and say
34:48this is you who make hey this and that,
34:50you know.
34:51And
34:52all these links each one one link nobody
34:55knows the link before who made the call
34:58all of them will be
35:00talking under the brand of company.
35:03Company is the only entity and which is
35:05invisible which has no body which has no
35:06face or
35:07or anything, you know.
35:09So finally after the job is done they'll
35:12say we where to put the gun back.
35:20Somebody will come and take it.
35:22These guys will be asked to return to
35:24wherever they are till the next job
35:26comes, you know.
35:28In case they're caught let's say
35:31that guy says my his name is Altaf. You
35:33know they have no clue. Either both of
35:36them are caught one is caught or
35:37whatever and in case the investigation
35:40starts proceeding
35:43whose car phone came there I am. Then
35:45they will remove one link and it will
35:47stop.
35:48>> Okay.
35:48>> So in the course of that eventually what
35:52has happened the guy who's thinking of
35:55this whole thing will be the main guy.
35:58He will be abroad and he can never be
36:00directly connected to this.
36:02You can never prove
36:04the company car boss Joe whose car heart
36:07is my head cannot be proved it's not
36:09possible.
36:09>> You're making a film actually.
36:11>> Mhm.
36:12>> Today you have released the poster it's
36:14called police company.
36:15>> Yeah.
36:16>> Right?
36:16>> Yeah.
36:17>> Uh inspired by the life of the night.
36:21>> So was the
36:23uh encounter killing squad which is the
36:26police company was it as created as a
36:28response to this kind of a
36:31>> Yeah, see
36:32see that that that mainly that
36:35tremendous activity happened because of
36:37the main reason was
36:39the company was quite in grip of the
36:41entire
36:42city of Mumbai at that time.
36:45Because
36:46he from a gang he made it into a company
36:49in the hierarchy of whatever.
36:51But when a split happened between Dawood
36:53and Rajan
36:55there was a sudden vacuum and to fill
36:57this up many gangs jumped in.
37:00The Gawli gang, Manisha Shaker gang,
37:01Amar Nayak and all this.
37:03Now that in the competition to prove
37:06who's bigger than whom
37:08that created a spate of activities in
37:10which lot of
37:12things happened and people started
37:13losing their complete trust in the law
37:15and order.
37:17And so to win that trust back and they
37:20gone like I said it became so organized
37:24it's becoming impossible for the police
37:26to secure convictions in courts.
37:29You know?
37:30So this was taken as a success by the
37:32underworld gangs and the recruitment of
37:34youngsters from Bihar, MP, UP, they were
37:37coming in hordes to join the companies.
37:39To put a stop to them they needed to
37:41instill fear
37:42and to scare them they started encounter
37:44killings.
37:46Because even if their bosses are trying
37:48to protect you from the top from the law
37:51by putting lawyers and unable to prove
37:55we will we will we will anyway do it.
37:56And they're employing the methods of the
37:58underworld in a way if you look at it.
38:01So to deal with a gang you need to
38:03become a gang.
38:04>> Yeah.
38:06>> So police company for me is like a
38:08police is an institution
38:10and company is a money making
38:11organization, but with the moment you
38:13exceed its powers it'll become a
38:15company.
38:15>> Okay.
38:16>> Which is exactly the
38:18>> Is it a resurgence? Where do do think
38:20this is going? And what do you think
38:23would be
38:24the police reaction to this?
38:27>> See, to start with the if you if you
38:30look at
38:32whether you call it crime or or
38:34terrorism anything, they never die.
38:36They change form.
38:38>> Okay.
38:38>> Like if you look at then they used to be
38:40dadas in the 60s and 70s like street
38:42toughs, you know? They all got
38:44amalgamated into
38:47can hardline political parties. Like
38:50Shiv Sena. So you used to keep saw them
38:52disappearing. They just kind of
38:53metamorph into
38:55people working for
38:57rebellious political parties and all
38:59that.
39:00Then when smugglers came.
39:03Now they because of tremendous demand
39:05for gold and electronic goods and then
39:07with the reforms they have gone. Then
39:09the corporate gangs came. Every time
39:11they come there'll be one entrepreneur
39:13who thought beyond.
39:15So that was Dawood.
39:16He made street gangs into companies
39:18because of the tremendous his
39:21organizational skills,
39:24So and they do pretty much decline by
39:262010 or so.
39:28You know? Just when you thought it won't
39:30happen again, first warning sign came
39:33from Sidhu Moose Wala.
39:34But still he's very far from Bombay.
39:37>> But it had
39:37>> It happened.
39:39I mean using AK-47 rifles to kill a
39:42star, he's a big star, Sidhu Moose Wala,
39:45you know?
39:46And that can happen and then the Delhi
39:48shootout. Still Bombay was awake.
39:51And now seeing that publicity whatever,
39:53I feel now they got this idea.
39:56Let's take this model to Bombay.
39:59>> So that was pilot.
40:00>> Yeah, what is the difference?
40:02What is the difference is now they're
40:05getting in that angle of a rebel
40:07rebellion fighting for a cause. It is
40:09not just about a criminal. They don't
40:11want to like to call themselves
40:12criminals. They're fighting for justice
40:15and injustice is given by Salman Khan.
40:17>> Yeah. That is a narrative they're
40:19pushing.
40:20Because human beings love conflict.
40:23See, most of the time
40:25either you follow blindly and you kind
40:28of bitching about it and grieving about
40:31it or you would or you take up a weapon
40:34and rebel. You know, now if if you look
40:36at these boys
40:38why would somebody kill for 10,000?
40:41That is not the reason they do that, you
40:42know. They believe by coming in like
40:44this nobody comes to Bombay film
40:46industry to become assistant director.
40:48They want to become a director.
40:49On the way to being a director they have
40:51no choice but to become assistant
40:53director. The shooter is exactly that.
40:55The shooter wants to become the don.
40:58Out of 100 one might become, out of 1000
41:00one might become, others will end up
41:02dead or in jail. But they won't know
41:04that at that time.
41:05And what is option they have?
41:08They could be just like a menial worker
41:09for the rest of their life and now if
41:11you are being given a choice about I got
41:13to you what to
41:17That is that is upper limit of what you
41:19can achieve.
41:20You know?
41:21So then when the society has that
41:23inequality
41:25and there are poor, there are rich and
41:26there are miserable conditions, it's
41:28impossible that crime will ever die.
41:30Yes, the policing systems will become
41:32better.
41:33Them catching them will become better.
41:35But that root cause can never be taken
41:37out.
41:38>> Tell me something, couple more things
41:40and then I want to
41:41make an accusation against you.
41:44But couple more things on this
41:46very short things.
41:48Tiger Shroff is is not a Muslim, he's a
41:50Hindu.
41:51>> Yeah.
41:51>> Whereas
41:53the us versus them with Salman
41:56has a religion
41:57angle to it, right? Do you think that
42:00the shooters were given orders to kill
42:03Tiger or just [clears throat] ex- This
42:05has exactly happened the way it has
42:07happened and Tiger got saved so that the
42:11backlash doesn't come by him. See,
42:13that's what I was saying in the
42:14interview. I don't think this is a
42:16Hindu-Muslim thing.
42:18>> Okay.
42:18>> See,
42:19you see if you look at only the aspect
42:21of the deer killing like Bishnoi, that's
42:24instead of Salman could have been safe
42:25also.
42:26>> Mhm.
42:27Yes.
42:27>> You know, that is not that is it's or it
42:30can be Sonali Bendre or anybody who's
42:32there. That is not the point. Killing
42:33the deer is a completely separate thing.
42:36You know, and what they're talking is
42:37separate. Okay.
42:38In the context of if the main job given
42:42instill fear.
42:43>> Mhm.
42:44>> Let Bollywood tremble. Then we have to
42:45target a
42:47popular guy.
42:48In the popular guy whom to do it
42:52is is a decision whoever made. He could
42:55be having 100 different reasons for
42:57that.
42:57>> Yeah.
42:58>> Like I'll tell you, there's a huge fan
43:00war which goes in and like every hero in
43:03South thinks other other fan other guy
43:05is trying to do something.
43:07Other hero is paying negative publicity
43:09and sabotage.
43:11So, that that is a very common
43:12phenomenon these days.
43:13>> Yeah.
43:14>> It is just a matter of time before the
43:16underworld gets into it.
43:18You know,
43:19because underworld is waiting for that
43:21moment when you need them.
43:23There was a time I I was having trouble
43:25with someone. You know, maybe 20 years
43:28back.
43:28>> Mhm.
43:29>> And before that one underworld guy gave
43:32me a number. Happy number look look up
43:34here come here to up here number before
43:36go. And that's giving a blank check. You
43:38know,
43:39after I spoke and I tore it off. Now,
43:41when I got upset with this guy years
43:43later, I wish I kept that number. That's
43:45exactly what the underworld operates on.
43:48When you call them for help, they will
43:50go out of their way to do it and that is
43:54how the network operates.
43:55>> Mhm.
43:56>> Then they build a group of people. All
43:58of that becomes a support system.
44:00>> Mhm.
44:01>> I got if I was central point of a
44:03gangster, the gangster knows Rajiv, the
44:05gangster knows Rajiv, the gangster,
44:07knows X.
44:08>> Mhm. Yeah.
44:09>> Then Rajiv has a head show, then he will
44:11call Rajiv.
44:12>> Mhm.
44:13>> And make a
44:14I need something from you. He'll make
44:16you do that. And then I I become under
44:18his debt.
44:18>> Hold on.
44:19>> Which is exactly how Godfather operates
44:21also, you know?
44:22>> Now, I want So, this is going to be an
44:24acquisition question. I want you to hear
44:26it
44:27in full.
44:27>> [clears throat]
44:28>> A lot of people are talking about the
44:31contribution made by social media and
44:33the narrative power of
44:35of shaping narratives
44:37to make uh criminals into causes and
44:40celebrities into victims or villains,
44:43you know?
44:45If you remove
44:47>> Mhm.
44:47>> social media, probably it's very
44:50difficult to to have that kind of a
44:53impact. Okay? You yourself said
44:56>> Mhm.
44:56>> that social media is creating uh
44:58you know, a hero
45:00out of criminals.
45:01>> Huh, right.
45:02>> Now, if we ask the social media guy
45:04>> No, no, I didn't say that. I said it's a
45:05reflection of the money.
45:07>> okay.
45:07>> Social media made
45:10us transparent.
45:11>> Okay.
45:11>> What kind of devils exist in all of us?
45:13It made that transparent.
45:14[clears throat]
45:14>> Okay, okay. So,
45:15and it can and the algorithm of
45:17>> got to know.
45:18>> Yeah.
45:19Now, I'll ask the social media guys or
45:22anybody,
45:23they'll say it is because and it's not
45:25the first time people are saying this,
45:26but I will cut to you.
45:28They say it is because Bollywood uh
45:31makes uh glamorizes crime and uh dons.
45:35>> Mhm.
45:35>> Okay?
45:36And there have been many filmmakers who
45:38have made films on crime, on don, on
45:41stuff. Mhm. Nobody with the cultural
45:43impact, nobody with the consistency of
45:46Ram Gopal Varma.
45:47In fact, as I look at it, Ram Gopal
45:49Varma is sitting with the gangsters when
45:53a plan is being hacked and with the
45:54police when the encounter plan is being
45:56hacked. It's It's that kind of a thing
45:58where you so much real reality realism
46:00and stuff.
46:01A lot of people will say, and I'm asking
46:04you,
46:05have you shaped this helped shape this
46:09culture of hero-worshipping or
46:11glamorizing
46:12by justifying the humanity of of each
46:16crime lord?
46:18>> See, first of all, I don't know the word
46:19justification, how it is applicable
46:21here. See, the point is whether art
46:24imitates life or life imitates art is a
46:26question hanging for the last 1,000
46:28years, maybe, you know.
46:30So, if you look at it,
46:32like I had mentioned in the beginning of
46:33this interview, human beings have a
46:35morbid fascination for a rebel. Like I
46:38used to love bullies in my classroom.
46:41Everyone is like sheep, and they're the
46:43guys who pull hair
46:44>> Yeah.
46:44>> or throw a chalk piece at the teacher
46:46and all that.
46:47>> Mhm.
46:47>> Then there'll be street toughs. There'll
46:49be gangs. So, why why Why are the
46:51newspapers full of gangsters and scams
46:53and everything?
46:53>> Mhm.
46:54>> You know?
46:55>> Mhm.
46:55>> Why would Why would you remember Hitler
46:57probably more than Vinoba Bhave?
47:00>> Mhm.
47:00>> You know?
47:01Because we have that fascination.
47:03>> Mhm.
47:04>> Because at deep inside, we are animals.
47:07>> Mhm.
47:08>> And we've been tempered by the use of
47:11like like using disciplinary as aspect
47:13like religion, ethics, morality,
47:17and social acceptance. These are the
47:19various tools which kind of discipline
47:21us and to become normal civilized
47:23people.
47:23>> Mhm.
47:24>> But what is inside is a wild animal.
47:26>> Yeah.
47:27>> And that keeps on resonating whenever
47:29you hear about such people.
47:30>> Mhm.
47:31>> So, for me, I either as a filmmaker or
47:34as a natural person, I'm admitting to
47:36it. I'm fascinated.
47:37>> Okay.
47:37>> Yeah.
47:38Now, when someone told me
47:41a long time back,
47:42I think if you're not a director, you'll
47:45become a gangster, he told me.
47:47>> Okay.
47:47>> I said, "I don't have the guts for
47:48that."
47:48>> Mhm.
47:49>> See, I am like a naturalist
47:51>> Mhm.
47:52>> who studies wild animals.
47:54>> Yeah.
47:54>> A naturalist cannot become a wild
47:56animal. He doesn't have guts or doesn't
47:57have the ability or whatever
48:00for that, you know? And the guy who has
48:03that will not think.
48:05All the dons were names you should wear.
48:08They would have never slapped a guy in
48:10their life.
48:11They're that much away from violence.
48:14And the guys who actually do the
48:15violence, they'll never become dons. But
48:18that that is the that is the nature. I
48:19mean, the natural balance of power.
48:22Okay. As an end, I want to say this one
48:24thing. See, I feel when somebody asked
48:26me,
48:27"Is this going to progress?" Now, what
48:29happened? Is it going to continue?
48:32There are two different things here.
48:33See,
48:35in '90s, one big thing which happened is
48:37they were asking demands which were
48:40unreasonable.
48:4210 crore do, 4 crore do. It's impossible
48:44for people to pay that kind of money
48:46which created that situation.
48:48And that was because of the intensive
48:50competition between five, six different
48:52gangs. All of them were operating at the
48:54same
48:56Today, as of now, it looks like only
48:58Bishnoi is operating. The brand Bishnoi
49:00is there.
49:02That doesn't mean it won't
49:04I mean, start branching out. It'll
49:06branch out for sure.
49:09Now, if they're smart, they will keep
49:12the extortion amounts down.
49:14But for that, you need brains. But then
49:16you become greedy at some time.
49:18Then it So, that is a cycle which keeps
49:20on flowing.
49:21But one thing for sure this did,
49:24for 25 years, it didn't happen.
49:27And it happened suddenly.
49:29So, which means anything can happen at
49:31any time is a wake-up call. It has
49:33nothing to do with it went away. Nothing
49:35goes away.
49:37It's just a question of time before it
49:38comes back. That is what is proved with
49:40the Tiger Shroff incident.
49:42Like today, everybody in the industry is
49:45scared.
49:46Because if it can happen to him, it can
49:48happen to me.
49:50And you have
49:52tons of money, you have the great cars
49:54and your guards, all that will mean
49:56nothing.
49:57>> Nothing.
49:58>> In front of just a shooter who comes for
50:0010,000 rupees.
50:02That that that that is a fear factor,
50:04which is exactly what the underworld
50:05wants.
50:06We can reach you.
50:07>> Yeah.
50:08>> No matter where you are in Bombay, we
50:10can reach you.
50:11>> Oh my god.
50:12>> [laughter]
50:12>> So, I think this is
50:15as you rightly said wake up call and
50:18this is going to
50:20evolve the way it does maybe in new
50:23ways.
50:24But this has been my attempt to
50:26understand
50:28the emergence of a seemingly new kind of
50:31operating system and
50:33the mafia organization
50:37through the eyes of the guy who knows
50:39everything about the previous
50:42series
50:43season.
50:45So,
50:46thank you again for your insights and
50:47your time.
50:48And you guys need to subscribe and press
50:52the notification bell so that the next
50:54conversation we have you don't have to
50:56search for it.
50:57It'll come straight to you. Thank you so
50:58much. Goodbye.

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