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REMASTERED - Jennifer Pan Murder Interrogation 02 — Transcript

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0:01Okay, Jennifer, I'm going to explain
0:03this sworn video statement form. Um, and
0:06as I've we're now being recorded,
0:09this is not new to you. We've done this
0:10once before. Okay. I want to take before
0:14we get this, try and take that first
0:17interview that we had, which was, you
0:19know, hours after what what had
0:21transpired, put it aside. It's almost
0:23like we've never spoken before. Okay?
0:26So, we're starting a fresh. We're
0:27starting from new. That way you're not
0:29going to say, "I think I already told
0:30him that." Don't worry about what you've
0:32already told me. So,
0:35this is a statement of Jennifer Pan, and
0:38the incident number is uh for the murder
0:40investigation is uh 310188
0:43of 2010. Jennifer, do you ever do you
0:46understand that everything that's being
0:48said in this room is being videotaped?
0:50>> Yes.
0:52>> Okay. My name is uh Randy Slate and I'm
0:54a detective with the York Regional
0:56Police. My badge number is 531. There's
0:59no one else present in the room other
1:00than you and I. And monitoring this
1:02statement next to us is Deborah
1:04Glatting.
1:10Uh today is Thursday, November the 11th,
1:122010.
1:14The time on my watch is 9:43
1:19in the morning. We are presently
1:21videotaping at five district in the town
1:23of Markham in the regional municipality
1:26of York. Um is there anything we're back
1:29to this question again about is there
1:31anything else uh I need to know in order
1:32to better understand your statement and
1:34that is do you suffer from any mental
1:36illness? Have you been drinking? Did you
1:37take any drugs?
1:39>> No drugs, no drinking.
1:40>> So there's nothing that's going to
1:41influence your statement.
1:49I'm just a little nervous.
1:52>> Don't be nervous, okay? I I know that's
1:55tough to say, but don't be nervous. The
1:58truth is always the best way to relieve
2:02anxiety. Okay.
2:05We are investigating an alle allegation
2:07of the
2:09murder
2:14of your mom Bicha Pan. As a part of our
2:18investigation of the offense, I would
2:21like to interview on videotape and under
2:23oath solemn affirmation or solemn
2:26declaration. It is my obligation to
2:28advise you of certain information before
2:30we commence this statement.
2:33Just want to
2:38redundant. Remember me telling you about
2:40that.
2:44So just to reiterate, uh we're in the
2:46middle or starting the uh middle portion
2:48of the video KGB. I've just turned on my
2:50digital audio recorder just just in case
2:52for failsafe measures. Um it's now 9:45.
2:56We began the video statement portion at
2:589:43
2:59and I'm just at the portion of the video
3:01statement form.
3:03Um, Jennifer, can you spell your name
3:05for me?
3:06>> J E N I F E R
3:09>> and last name
3:10>> P A N.
3:11>> Okay. So, it's my obligation to advise
3:13you of certain information before we
3:15commence this statement. You may be a
3:17witness in court concerning the events
3:19you're about to describe in your
3:20statement. And if at any time you change
3:22your statement or claim not to remember
3:23the events, the contents of this video
3:25statement you give now may be used as
3:28evidence in court. Do you understand?
3:29>> Yes.
3:33>> And for the audio recording, just to
3:34date it, it's the 11th of November and I
3:36already said 9:45.
3:38Um,
3:42these are the criminal code sanctions.
3:44Remember I told you the explaining of
3:46the of the facts of uh that there's
3:48certain penalties for not telling the
3:50truth or misleading the police. It's
3:52also my obligation to advise you that
3:54fabricating evidence with the intent to
3:56mislead is an offense under section 137
3:59of the criminal code. And if you give a
4:01false statement under oath, you may be
4:03charged with fabricating evidence. If
4:04convicted of fabricating evidence, you
4:06could be sentenced up to 14 years in
4:08jail. It is also an offense under
4:10section 139 of the criminal code to
4:12obstruct by willfully attempting to
4:14obstruct, pervert, or defeat the course
4:16of justice. And you may be charged if
4:18you obstruct justice. If convicted of
4:20obstructing justice, you could be
4:21sentenced up to 10 years in jail. It is
4:24also an offense under section 140 of the
4:26criminal code to commit public mischief
4:28by causing a police officer to start or
4:31continue an investigation by making a
4:32false statement that accuses some other
4:35person of committing an offense. And you
4:37may be charged if you commit public
4:38mischief. If convicted of public
4:40mischief, you could be sentenced up to 5
4:42years in jail. If you were charged with
4:44one or more of the above offenses, this
4:46statement may be used as evidence
4:48against you. Do you understand the
4:49criminal sanctions I've explained to
4:51you?
4:51>> Yes.
4:54>> Do you understand the criminal
4:55consequences of making a false
4:56statement?
4:57>> Yes.
4:59>> Do you understand that it's your choice
5:00to whether or not you want to give a
5:02statement?
5:02>> Yes.
5:05Do you understand the importance of
5:06telling truth in regards to this
5:08investigation? Yes.
5:11>> If you've spoken to a police officer,
5:13any person in authority in connection
5:14with this investigation, I wanted to
5:16clearly understood. I don't want it to
5:17influence you in making a statement. Do
5:19you understand that?
5:20>> Yes.
5:21>> Have any questions?
5:24>> No.
5:26>> Are you prepared to give a video
5:27statement under oath or solemn afflemn
5:30affirmation or declaration at this time?
5:32>> Yes.
5:34Okay, I'm just going to bring the
5:35commissioner in and then we can get on
5:37with it.
5:47Hello, I'm Sonia Facini. I'm a
5:50commissioner and I'm just going to swear
5:51you in for your statement. Okay. Will
5:53you be swearing on the Bible or were you
5:56Okay,
5:57just place your right hand there,
5:59please.
6:03And your first name is Jennifer?
6:05>> Yes.
6:06>> Last name of Pan?
6:07>> Yes.
6:08>> Okay. Do you Jennifer Penn swear declare
6:11that the evidence that you give in this
6:13investigation shall be the truth, the
6:15whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
6:16So help you God.
6:17>> Yes.
6:30Okay. Thank you.
6:32>> Thank you, Sand.
6:41Okay. So,
6:45what we're going to do now is, as I
6:47said, what what education level do you
6:50have?
6:50>> Just a high school.
6:52>> High school. Have you gone to any other
6:53curriculer
6:56of education? Have you been working
6:58towards anything? I I'm going back to
7:00school and I have been working on the
7:01piano education.
7:02>> Okay. There's no other education that
7:04you've sought like you haven't gone to
7:06university at this point in time.
7:08>> Okay. So, um I want
7:13I want you
7:16to forget
7:18or put aside the first statement that we
7:20had talked about. Okay.
7:23This is going to be where I'm going to
7:26ask you to start from the day. Okay. On
7:29the 8th leading up until when you when
7:33the police become involved in an
7:35incident that takes place in your house,
7:36I want you to tell me about your day,
7:38what you do, your interaction with your
7:40parents. Okay? So, we're at what we are
7:43is we're dealing with the incident.
7:45We're not dealing with your history
7:46right now. We're dealing with the
7:47incident again to see if anything else
7:49comes. forgetting what you've already
7:51told me and bring your th yourself
7:54through that day and through the event
7:57and we'll see if what we're going to see
7:58if we've learned or if you've remembered
8:00anything else and there's some questions
8:02with respect to that uh statement that
8:05I'm going to ask you about. Okay? But
8:07I'm going to let you start again and and
8:09let's let's move forward from any time
8:11in that day where you want to start. If
8:12it's the time you woke up or if it's the
8:14time that your first interaction, it's
8:16your choice.
8:17>> Okay. I'm just
8:19I'm very nervous and I
8:21>> Why are you Let's Why are you Why are
8:23you nervous? Tell me about why you're
8:25nervous.
8:26>> Because I don't want to say the wrong
8:28things.
8:29>> Oh, so
8:29>> because that day was a lot.
8:33>> You're right.
8:34>> And I've been
8:37scattered and so bits and pieces are
8:39here and some pieces aren't here. And
8:43I'm just
8:44>> So I want you to sit back in your chair.
8:47Okay, just sit back in your chair. Take
8:50a deep breath. Okay, close your eyes.
8:53Just follow my line. Just sit back in
8:55the chair for a second. Sit back. Relax
8:58is the best you can.
9:00Close your eyes
9:04and just breathe for a minute. Okay,
9:15we're not in any type of danger. We're
9:18nowhere. We're in a very safe place,
9:20okay?
9:24And we're going to work through this.
9:25And don't worry about what you forget or
9:27what you mix up or whatever you're doing
9:30is
9:32you start and pl push the play button
9:34for that day.
9:36And if you stick to everything that you
9:39remember happening that day, it will
9:41come out in sequence.
9:43Okay? And I'm going to show you a
9:45technique after we go through this that
9:47will that will show it to you. Okay? So,
9:50let's just start. You've taken a deep
9:52breath. You've relaxed. You're in a good
9:53position right there. Let's start from
9:56the beginning of the day when you wake
9:57up and let's start moving forward from
9:59there.
10:02What I can remember is
10:04when I woke up, I had some breakfast
10:09and I went upstairs to do some piano
10:12history and I was on the computer.
10:14>> What time is that around?
10:21>> I'm not 100% sure. Time isn't like is it
10:24you know time is important meaning is it
10:26is it in the beginning of the is it
10:28morning is the light out is in the
10:30afternoon like
10:31>> probably
10:32maybe before noon
10:34>> before noon sometime before noon
10:36>> yes
10:36>> okay
10:37>> before noon um
10:40I play some Facebook games so I was
10:43doing that and then I stopped and then I
10:47was doing some studying for my piano
10:49like I said I was working towards a
10:51piano degree in teaching ing. So, I was
10:54uh reading some history notes and going
10:57over some practice examination papers.
11:03>> Who's in the house at that time?
11:04>> My father has left for work and my
11:06mother's home.
11:07>> Okay. Where's your mom? Do you know
11:09where she is?
11:16>> Don't remember at this point.
11:18>> Okay. I for I'm getting the last few
11:21days all mixed up together. Uh I believe
11:25she had left with my aunt to go and
11:29visit my grandfather that morning. Okay.
11:31>> Or early afternoon.
11:33Um he is residing
11:38sorry he resides resided at Man Nursing
11:42Home and he had just gotten back from
11:45the hospital
11:47Saturday.
11:48>> Okay.
11:49>> So she went in I don't remember if she
11:52took my aunt but she went in to uh see
11:54if she could uh see how the nurse the
11:57nurse got any updates on him and see if
12:00she could feed him. Um when she had
12:03left, she had called me and she asked me
12:07to come out because there were some
12:09police officers on the street. And I
12:12went out and uh I asked the police
12:15officers came up and they said that
12:17there was a gas leak on our street and
12:20to exit our exit our house. So I said uh
12:25if it would be possible, could I go in
12:26and grab a jacket? Cuz I was still in
12:29just regular clothes.
12:31So, I went in and when I came out, my
12:34mother said that they wouldn't let her
12:35take out the car either. So, we were
12:37going to we decided to we were going to
12:39walk across the street to a relative's
12:41house there.
12:43And before we could get to our
12:44relative's house, uh the officers got a
12:48message or a memo from an from their
12:50fellow officers saying that our side was
12:53secure and that it might be from another
12:54area. So, from there, I went back into
12:57the house. Do you remember what time
12:59that was
13:01>> again? It was before noon.
13:02>> Before noon. Okay.
13:03>> I'm I'm I'm pretty sure it was before
13:06noon.
13:07>> So before noon. And now your mom's come
13:09back from
13:09>> No, not yet. She She's on She was
13:12>> leaving to go out. Okay.
13:14>> So she left to go pick up my aunt and go
13:18in to my grandfather's and I went back
13:20up to on the computer to do a little
13:23studying, taking a break, and playing
13:25some games.
13:28Um,
13:31but that
13:32>> Do you remember speaking to anyone
13:33during the day on your on your phone or
13:35on the on Facebook?
13:37>> Um,
13:40later on in the day, yes. I spoke to a
13:43longtime friend, Andrew, who I went to
13:45elementary school with. Um, but just the
13:49usual. He he just asked if we could uh
13:52hang out anytime soon, but I explained
13:54to him that I wasn't able to leave the
13:57house and I couldn't meet up with him.
13:59So, I asked him how his life was, how
14:01was his girlfriend, how his job was
14:04going. Um, I believe that was later on
14:06in the day though. That wasn't in the
14:08afternoon.
14:09>> We'll go in later in the when we talk
14:11about your past about why you couldn't
14:13leave the house. Okay. So, that isn't
14:15that hasn't gone unnoticed, but we're
14:17not going to talk about that right now.
14:18We're talking about that day.
14:20>> Okay.
14:20>> So, continue on.
14:22>> Um, I think my mom came home at about
14:273 or so. I'm not sure where she went
14:31with my aunt. She uh came home and
14:34unpacked and started preparing dinner.
14:39Um,
14:40my father came home
14:46my father came home about 4:20,
14:504:30. It was later than he usually does.
14:53He normally comes home about 10:00 to
14:544:00.
14:55Um, when my mother asked him where he
14:58had been, he had said he had forgotten
15:00to lock his toolbox at work or
15:04something about along the lines of he
15:06had to go back to work cuz he had
15:08forgotten to uh close something or lock
15:11something up.
15:12>> Where does your dad work?
15:13>> Um, Coobe and Stell. Um, it's
15:18Middlefield and
15:21south of Fitch.
15:22>> Okay, continue. So he comes, he's home
15:25now late at 4:20, 4:30,
15:26>> 4:30. And he phoned and asked my uncle
15:30Nam if he wanted to go to go buy some
15:34like heat covers and a USB pen.
15:39So he immediately left, not shortly
15:41after that, maybe 4:30, a little bit
15:44after that. And on Monday nights, my
15:47mother goes dancing. So, she had
15:50finished dinner and me and her ate
15:53dinner first.
15:54>> What time did you guys have dinner
15:55around?
15:57>> 5 5:30.
15:58>> Mhm.
15:59>> And then she had then my father came
16:02home and he had dinner.
16:04>> And what time did your dad get home? No,
16:09I
16:12I'd say sometime between 6:00 and 6:30
16:15because my mother was able to clean up
16:17before going out to dancing.
16:20>> When your dad comes home, do you
16:21remember seeing what type of bags he was
16:23carrying when he came in?
16:24>> I I wasn't downstairs when he came
16:26through the door. I had gone upstairs
16:28already.
16:29>> Okay. So, you don't know where he went
16:31shopping at? Um, all I know is that when
16:33I came down to greet him after he had
16:35come home, he had shown me this uh
16:38heating cover that he had bought for the
16:40house.
16:42>> Didn't have a label on it, didn't you?
16:43Didn't see
16:43>> He took it out of the bag or I He did.
16:45He just showed me the the cover itself.
16:48He didn't like that.
16:50>> Did you see the USB stick?
16:52>> I believe the USB stick was for my
16:53uncle. If they bought it or not, I
16:55>> don't know.
16:56>> I'm not sure.
16:57>> Okay. So, it's now 6:00 to 6:30 cuz your
17:00dad's now home and eating and your mom
17:02said, You say your mom cleans up?
17:03>> Yep. And then she leaves at 7:00 and my
17:06father goes up to his computer like he
17:08normally does.
17:09>> Yes.
17:09>> And he's on the computer watching like
17:12news. I'm not sure what he's doing. I'm
17:14in my room. Uh I believe at this point I
17:17had called my friend.
17:20>> Hang on. Let's make sure I got to make
17:22sure that the the tape recorders didn't
17:23just click off. Okay. Cuz we had a bit
17:25of a power flicker. So, just give me a
17:27second.
17:34Okay. So, we're still we're still
17:40Okay. So, we're at uh we're at 7:00,
17:44right? And your mom's getting ready to
17:45go. So, continue on.
17:51So, she leaves and I my friend Adrien
17:54had asked if we would do our movie night
17:57like we normally do. He comes over with
18:00uh TV shows uh some of our favorites to
18:03watch um together.
18:07So, he had come over I'm sorry I this
18:11the timeline's a little off. Uh he had
18:13come over around I think I told him I
18:16messaged him around 6:00. He came over
18:18about 6:20, 6:30.
18:21>> What? And when you say message him, was
18:22it Facebook or was it your phone? Text
18:24message. And what was the phone? Which
18:26phone is it that you use? Which phone
18:27number?
18:28>> Uh, my Rogers phone.
18:30>> Your Rogers phone and 647.
18:33>> Uh, 9652118.
18:37>> Okay. So, that's the message. And is
18:38that the first communication you had
18:40with him that day?
18:41>> I think I had messaged him at 3:00. You
18:43know, he had messaged me around in the
18:46afternoon sometime asking me if it was
18:47TV was on tonight.
18:49>> Okay.
18:49>> And then I had messaged him, I'm done.
18:51You can come over whenever. I think that
18:54was the just the message I
18:56>> So, what time does he arrive again?
18:58>> He arrived around between 6:00 and 6:30.
19:02>> So, your mom and dad are both home.
19:03>> My parents are home and he came in. He
19:05greets them as usual. They they asked
19:08him how everything was going and then my
19:11mom had left for uh dancing and we were
19:14downstairs watching
19:16um
19:19that day we watched Gossip Girl and How
19:22I Met Your Mother.
19:24>> Um is this are these live TV shows or
19:26these recordings?
19:27>> Uh he he brings them on a USB pen.
19:30>> Okay. When your mom leaves, what is she
19:32wearing?
19:34>> I didn't pay attention. Do you remember
19:36what she was wearing when you were
19:37having dinner?
19:38>> She was wearing her pajamas when we were
19:40having dinner.
19:40>> What do they look like?
19:42>> Um, they're like green with like Winnie
19:45the Pooh.
19:46>> Okay. Um,
19:49so when you say when she leaves to go
19:51out, would she have changed?
19:53>> Yes, cuz I was, like I said, my friend
19:55came around like 6:30, so we were
19:57already downstairs watching movies by
20:00when she went up to change quickly and
20:02go to her dance class at 7:00.
20:04>> Okay. And what car does she take when
20:05she leaves?
20:06>> She takes the Lexus.
20:07>> Is that the only car she drives?
20:09>> Uh, pretty much. My father drives his
20:11Mercedes and my mother drives the Lexus.
20:14>> Do you do they have like parents have
20:16different kinds of routines? Do they
20:17have a routine where they park the car
20:19in the garage, out of the garage or
20:21>> normally inside, but uh if we plan to go
20:25out again? Um, we park our car outside,
20:29but only the Lexus. So my mother when
20:31she came home from like I said going out
20:34with my aunt she had parked the car
20:35outside.
20:36>> Okay.
20:37>> So when my friend came he parked it
20:38beside her.
20:40>> Okay.
20:41>> Closer to the door.
20:42>> And where do they usually in the garage?
20:44Is there do they just take out either
20:45side or they
20:46>> No. Uh the Lexus is normally on the
20:49when facing the house
20:50>> when looking at the house.
20:51>> Uh left side.
20:53>> Left side is the Lexus
20:54>> and the Mercedes is on the right closer
20:56to the door.
20:57>> Okay. No other cars in the house. It
20:59didn't belong to just those two.
21:02>> Okay. So, your mom's goes. Did you see
21:04her change her clothes?
21:06>> Unfortunately, I I was watching
21:09>> I was just watching my TV show. And
21:11where were you watching?
21:11>> In the basement.
21:12>> In the basement.
21:14>> So, when you say that she's wearing her
21:16her pajamas and she goes upstairs and
21:20change, is that something you know or
21:22you're speculating?
21:23>> No, for sure. She has to change into
21:25regular clothes to go and to go dancing.
21:28Okay. That's something that
21:30>> I didn't see it, but I know for sure
21:32that that's what she does.
21:33>> Okay. So, your mom goes and where's your
21:35dad at this point?
21:36>> He is uh well, like I said, around 6:30,
21:39he was just finishing up dinner. And
21:41after he finished dinner, he went he
21:42goes upstairs and goes on the computer.
21:45>> So, let's talk about the layout of the
21:46house before we move on any further
21:48here. You're in the basement.
21:50>> Yes.
21:51>> Okay. Um and it's just the two of you,
21:53you and Adrian.
21:54>> Yes.
21:55>> The the main level, the ground level.
21:57What's on the ground level?
21:59>> Um what we call our living dining room
22:02with my piano.
22:03>> Yes.
22:03>> And then behind that is my family room.
22:08>> Okay.
22:08>> And then beside the family room is our
22:11our kitchen.
22:13>> So are they in separate locations?
22:15Living room, dining room, or is it
22:17living? Is it dining room, dining room?
22:18>> By more than a half like a there's a
22:20wall, but there is a way to walk from
22:23living room, dining room, living room or
22:25combined. Sorry.
22:26>> Okay. Uh but to go to the family room,
22:28there's like a wall, but there is like a
22:31um not a doorway, but like a opening.
22:35>> Yes.
22:35>> To go through to the front.
22:36>> And the kitchen is where?
22:37>> Um
22:39>> in the front back side.
22:41>> The back of the house.
22:42>> The back of the house.
22:43>> Yes.
22:43>> Okay. You go up the stairs. What's
22:45What's on the stairs? Where what's
22:47upstairs? How many bedrooms are up
22:48there?
22:48>> Uh four bedrooms, but one we use as a
22:51study.
22:51>> And where is the study located? Um,
22:53that's the front of the house beside my
22:56parents uh my parents' bedroom.
22:59>> Okay. And where's your bedroom located?
23:00>> Um, the back uh the back of the house.
23:03>> And is there another bedroom back there
23:05too?
23:05>> Uh there's one more bedroom back there
23:07and that's used for my brother or my
23:09cousin depending on who comes home.
23:12>> Okay. And your cousin who's
23:14>> uh his name is Curtis and he goes to
23:17school in Wateroo.
23:18>> Okay.
23:19um during co-op se the last co-op season
23:22he co-oped in Toronto so he stayed with
23:24us for four months
23:25>> Curtis's last name
23:27>> Leon
23:28>> Leon
23:29>> okay we'll get to Curtis after so now
23:32we're back your your your um your dad is
23:34upstairs you see him go to the computer
23:36room
23:37>> like I said I
23:38>> you're speculating
23:39>> yes
23:39>> that's what his normal routine is
23:41>> that's his normal routine
23:42>> you're in the basement
23:43>> yes
23:44>> did you hear your mom leave or
23:46>> yes
23:46>> yes okay And how do your parents leave
23:49when they're taking their cars? Now this
23:51time you say the car was out in the
23:52driveway. Did you hear how did when you
23:54say you heard your mom leave, how what
23:56what where did she go out?
23:57>> Because uh where how the house is laid
24:00out, the stairwell is in the middle of
24:02the house. So she would have to walk
24:08she would have to walk across the stairs
24:12to go to the front door. So I I heard
24:15her pass through. Okay.
24:18>> And leave through the front door.
24:20>> If you park your cars in your garage,
24:21how do you get do they do your parents
24:24come close the door and come out and
24:25into the house or do they
24:26>> No. If they park in the garage, they
24:29come through there's an entrance from
24:31the garage to the house inside the
24:33garage.
24:34>> How many ways are there to get into your
24:35house other than breaking a window? Like
24:37how many
24:38>> a doorway is three.
24:39>> So there's
24:40>> Well, there's the there's a door from
24:41the garage.
24:42>> Yes. Um the front doorway and the the
24:47backyard.
24:48>> In the backyard. Okay. So, um
24:53it's now 7:00 or beyond. Your mom's
24:56gone. Your dad's, you believe, upstairs
24:58in the computer room in the office, and
25:00you're downstairs with Adrian watching
25:02either the How I Met Your Mother or
25:04>> Gossip Girl. Gossip
25:04>> Girls a few episodes.
25:07>> Do you talk to anyone or text message
25:09anyone throughout the time that you're
25:10with Adrian?
25:11>> No. Does Adrien talk or text message
25:13anyone throughout the time?
25:14>> His phone wasn't I believe his phone was
25:16aside.
25:17>> Okay. Um
25:20and then what happens?
25:22>> Uh 9:00 comes and he says after that
25:25final episode we watch, he's like, "It's
25:26time for me to go home." So I see him
25:29out and I went upstairs and got ready
25:32for bed.
25:34>> Okay. And did you see your dad or hear
25:36your dad when you went upstairs? When I
25:38went upstairs, he was in his computer
25:39room like he normally is and on the
25:41computer at that point in time.
25:43>> Okay. And your mom's not home?
25:45>> No, she her dancing doesn't finish till
25:47about 9:00. So, she doesn't get home
25:48till closer to 9:30.
25:50>> Okay. So, you're in your bedroom and
25:52what are you doing?
25:53>> I'm at this point I was on the phone
25:55with my friend Andrew.
25:56>> Okay. and just talking to him and then
25:59event after and watching TV and then
26:03that was I don't remember how long the
26:05conversation was but then I ended up
26:06calling my friend Edward.
26:08>> So Andrew Andrew is old high school
26:12friend.
26:13>> Okay. And is he the one that was you had
26:16talked to? This is the person you said
26:18you were talking to. You were trying who
26:20was asking about meeting up with you?
26:22>> Yes.
26:23>> So you were actually talking on the
26:24phone with him now?
26:25>> Yes. Did you you were talking on
26:27Facebook with him earlier?
26:28>> No, I was uh text messaging him.
26:31>> Text messaging him. Were you talking to
26:32anyone on Facebook at the same time?
26:34Because I know I know you guys can
26:36multitask.
26:37>> No, I believe my Facebook I keep my
26:39there's a chat window and I keep that as
26:41offline unless I intend to speak to one
26:45of my friends regarding one of the games
26:47I play.
26:48>> So when you're talking to Andrew, you're
26:49not talking to anyone else?
26:51>> No.
26:52>> When you're talking to Edward, you're
26:53not talking to anyone else. I don't have
26:55a computer in my room.
26:57>> Okay. So, that's that answers the
26:59question is that there's no computer in
27:00the room. How many computers are in the
27:02house?
27:02>> Uh there's one computer. I'm not sure
27:04about towers because my brother recently
27:07took one to school with him, but I know
27:09there's one fully working computer and
27:12my mother has a laptop.
27:13>> Do you use either?
27:15>> Um like I said, I was on the main
27:17computer earlier.
27:18>> Yes.
27:19>> And the laptop I use occasionally, but
27:21not too often.
27:22>> Did you use it that day?
27:31I don't I don't remember to be honest,
27:34but I don't believe I did.
27:36>> And what services do you use when you're
27:38using the the laptop or or the other
27:40what what you say you're on Facebook. Is
27:42there any other chat lines or any other
27:44>> Sometimes I have uh an MSN open, but
27:47rarely I don't like to be on MSN too
27:50much.
27:50>> Okay.
27:52Um,
27:53so, uh, now we're at 9:00 and you're
27:57into the conversation. You've had
27:59finished your conversation with Andrew
28:00and now you're speaking to Edward. What
28:02time is it, do you think?
28:06>> 9:15, 9:30.
28:08>> When you're talking to Edward, is your
28:10mom, have you heard your mom come in
28:11yet?
28:11>> I heard my mom come in, so I asked him
28:13to hold. Uh, he had hung up. So, when I
28:17went down, I was like, "Hi, mom." And
28:19then I saw her. She had changed into her
28:21pajamas and she was downstairs watching
28:23TV.
28:25>> So, let's stop it right there. Just hold
28:27it and check. Is that
28:30>> when she came in, did you see her?
28:33>> I didn't see her come in.
28:34>> Okay. No, when you heard her come in and
28:36you say she changed into her position,
28:38>> she went up the stairs.
28:39>> You heard her come up the stairs.
28:40>> I heard my mom come up the stairs and go
28:41into her bedroom.
28:42>> Okay. And then when I went down like she
28:44went back down the stairs and that's
28:46when I went out and I went down the
28:48stairs and that's when I noticed she was
28:49in her pajamas and just watching TV.
28:52>> Okay. Did you see your dad?
28:54>> He had gone back to his bedroom to call
28:57it a night. He his door was closed but
29:00uh he wasn't on the computer.
29:02>> You could see in the computer room that
29:03he wasn't there
29:04>> was not there.
29:04>> So this is after your mom after your mom
29:07arrives home. You've heard her come up
29:09the stairs, go into the go in the room.
29:12You're suspecting she's changed because
29:14by the time you follow her down the
29:16stairs, she's
29:16>> I didn't follow her. She went down and
29:18then I went after.
29:19>> Sure. You went down to talk to your mom
29:21>> just to make sure she was
29:24>> Okay.
29:24>> Mhm.
29:25>> What kindal what kind of pajamas is she
29:27wearing at this time?
29:28>> Green Winnie the Poo. She went changed
29:30back into her green the poo pajamas.
29:32>> Okay.
29:34When you come downstairs,
29:36are you noticing is there any problems?
29:38any issues? Anything out of the norm
29:40when you go down? Because you said you
29:41went down to check on her and see how
29:42she was.
29:43>> Is there anything that's strange? Is
29:44there anything different?
29:46>> Not that I know. She was just on the
29:47couch like she normally is watching
29:49television, winding down.
29:51>> Okay.
29:53And that's now
29:56you're saying 9:15 to 9:30 she gets
29:58home. That's after that obviously.
29:59>> Just a little bit after that. Yeah.
30:01>> Okay. And then what happens?
30:02>> I go back up my stairs and I call Ed
30:04again.
30:05>> Okay. and uh I had to use the washroom,
30:08so I did put him on mute for a quick
30:10second and then I came back and I was
30:12just watching TV and talking with Ed.
30:15>> Okay. How long are you now upstairs on
30:18the phone with with Edward?
30:21>> I'm sorry, but that time frame just I
30:24I'm not sure.
30:26>> Okay.
30:27Um your cell phone records are going to
30:29give us the exact times. Okay.
30:31>> Okay. So, are have you talked to anyone
30:34else? Is is it you hang up with Edward,
30:37go down and see your mom,
30:39>> come back upstairs?
30:40>> Yes.
30:41>> Call Edward?
30:42>> Yes.
30:43>> Use the washroom.
30:44>> On the phone with Edward still?
30:46>> Yes.
30:46>> Have you talked to anyone else?
30:47>> No.
30:48>> Okay. Have you text messaged anyone
30:51else?
30:53>> No.
30:55>> How many?
30:55>> I don't believe I had did.
30:57>> Do you have more than one phone? I had
30:59one, but I keep that. I just keep the
31:02SIM card.
31:03>> Yes.
31:03>> Um, again, we will go into it in the
31:06history.
31:07>> Sure.
31:07>> But, uh, my cell phone gets taken away
31:09from me sometimes.
31:10>> Okay.
31:11>> And so, I had, um, a friend of mine,
31:14Daniel, he bought he got a SIM card for
31:16me to use sometimes, but I take the SIM
31:19card out when I finish it, and I
31:21normally keep it in my pocket so my
31:22parents wouldn't find it.
31:23>> Yes. But I don't remember the last time
31:26I I used it.
31:28>> Okay. But you didn't use that SIM card
31:31that day.
31:32>> No, I did not know.
31:33>> You did not?
31:34>> I don't remember the last time. Maybe it
31:36was a few days before that. It was the
31:38last time I remember using it was when
31:41my grandfather was in the hospital and I
31:44had messaged him and he asked me how my
31:46grandfather was.
31:47>> And how long when is that time frame
31:49that your grandfather went into the
31:50hospital?
31:50>> He was in the hospital for about 10
31:52days.
31:52>> 10 days. Okay.
31:54So that's the last time you remember
31:56using that SIM card associated to from
31:58what your friend had given you was about
32:0110 days earlier or even 12 days earlier
32:04because I believe you said your
32:05grandfather had come out of the hospital
32:06or was he still in the hospital?
32:07>> Yes.
32:08>> No, he was in the hospital for 10 days.
32:10>> Yes.
32:11>> On Saturday he had gone back to his
32:14nursing home and this is Monday we're
32:16talking. Oh, it's about
32:1912 to 14 days earlier that this happened
32:21that you you used the SIM card. You're
32:23guessing
32:24>> with the probably more within a week.
32:27Yeah,
32:28>> within a week.
32:29>> Yeah, cuz I messaged
32:30>> or take seven days. Is that what you're
32:31saying?
32:32>> Yeah, cuz uh I messaged him when my
32:34grandfather was in the hospital.
32:36>> Okay.
32:36>> Yeah.
32:37>> And where is that SIM card now?
32:39>> I'm not sure. I don't remember. I had it
32:42in my jacket pocket, but I don't
32:45remember where it is now. Okay. So,
32:49we're now back to you're on the phone
32:51with Edward and again the history stuff.
32:53You're right. We I don't want it to get
32:54convoluted in here, but we need to you
32:56know, we'll talk about that stuff after.
32:58>> So, we're back on track here. It's now
33:02you're back on the phone. You've come
33:03from the washroom, taken the mute button
33:05off, and you're now on the phone with
33:06Edward.
33:09>> Where's your mom? Have you heard your
33:10mom come up the stairs? Is she still
33:12downstairs?
33:12>> She's still downstairs.
33:13>> She's still downstairs. Okay,
33:16continue on.
33:18>> Um, just I had my TV on cuz I was
33:20watching TV.
33:21>> Yes.
33:21>> Uh,
33:25I don't remember what show I was
33:27watching. I believe it was Amazing
33:30Amazing Race. I'm I'm not 100% sure at
33:33this moment. Uh, but I was watching TV
33:35and on the phone with Ed as well.
33:37>> Okay.
33:38And then
33:41I the next thing I remember is my mother
33:44calling down for my father.
33:47>> What is she saying?
33:49>> She's calling him by his name and to
33:51come down.
33:52>> Okay. Does So give us verbatim what do
33:54you hear her saying? Is it in the mines
33:58Chinese or is it in English?
33:59>> It's in Vietnamese.
34:00>> Okay. What do you hear her say
34:02>> in Vietnamese? It's like ho.
34:06And what does that translate to?
34:08>> Uh, does my father's name, Han, uh, come
34:11down here?
34:12>> Did she say anything else associated
34:14with that with that?
34:16>> I can't hear clearly because like I was
34:19on the phone and the TV was on, but
34:21that's what I heard.
34:22>> Is she yelling or is it um normal?
34:26>> It's a loud. It's a She's not yelling,
34:28but it's a loud tone.
34:29>> Okay.
34:30>> And normally that tone means that I need
34:33to go down and see what's happening.
34:35usually. So that's when I told him I
34:38told Edward I was like, "Okay, I got to
34:39go. I'll call you later." And I hang up
34:41the phone with him.
34:43>> Have you heard anything else at this
34:44point in time?
34:45>> As I'm hanging up the phone with him, I
34:47hear footsteps going up the stairs.
34:49>> Okay.
34:49>> But they're not
34:52they're heavier footsteps than what is
34:55to be expected from my parents.
34:57>> Okay.
34:58And then I hear mumbling and someone's
35:01in the master bedroom and I hear the bed
35:05being tossed and I just froze where I
35:07was.
35:10I have to say they I don't know how long
35:13they were in there, but I heard somebody
35:17going down the stairs. So at this point,
35:21I opened my door. I peered out and there
35:25was a person
35:28in the my what would have been my
35:30brother's room.
35:31>> And where's your brother's room located?
35:33>> Just a little bit down the like I could
35:35see my from my doorway to his doorway.
35:37Just a little bit down the hall.
35:39>> Okay.
35:42and he looks at me and he pulls out his
35:44gun
35:46and he walks towards me and like sits me
35:49down on my bed cuz my bed is within a
35:53step from my door
35:55and he's like, "Where's the money? Do
35:57you have any money? Give me your money."
36:06So, I had some money that I had saved up
36:08from serving and I was also planning on
36:11buying a new cell phone cuz my contract
36:13was finishing with Rogers.
36:17And the phone I'm currently using has
36:20not good reception. So, I had about
36:23$2,000
36:25saved up.
36:30And so I opened my drawer and I pointed
36:32at it and he picked it up and took the
36:36cash and put it in his pocket.
36:44>> At this point, he ties my hands behind
36:45my back
36:48>> and he walks me out.
36:49>> Okay. So, stop right there for a second.
36:52Okay. I want you, now that you've got
36:54him right there, I want you to describe
36:56him to me what you can remember.
36:59every little detail.
37:08>> He's black. The dreadlocks.
37:12>> How long are the dreadlocks?
37:13>> They
37:14about
37:15>> Show me on your on your on your own
37:17body. Where are they? Where you would
37:18see them?
37:18>> About shoulder length.
37:20>> Okay.
37:20>> But they were long enough that they were
37:24able to move.
37:28Uh he's I would he's medium build and he
37:34is slight
37:37when I was standing I was almost eye
37:40level with him.
37:43>> And you're
37:44>> when he came up to me I'm about 5'7.
37:46>> Okay.
37:52>> Clothing.
37:52>> All I could remember is dark clothing.
38:00Now you got a you've got a gun pointed
38:03at you.
38:03>> Yes. And then he told
38:06>> Okay. Uh the gun
38:09was black
38:11with um almost
38:15not a triangle, but it
38:19kind of tapered a little on the handle.
38:24And I would describe it as like um what
38:27I see on TV for like police officers,
38:30kind of like like a like a handgun sort
38:33of thing.
38:36And the whole time he kept telling me to
38:39look down
38:44cuz my bedroom was dark but the hallway
38:46was lit. So he kept telling me to look
38:48down. Look down.
38:53at this point.
38:54>> Any accent?
38:58>> Not from this particular person.
39:00>> Does he sound like he was born and
39:02raised in Canada?
39:05>> I'd say I would say that he was born in
39:08Canada, but
39:11like there was no sign of an accent in
39:13his
39:14>> and that's what I mean culturally. I'm
39:15talking about the language. You know
39:17that you can tell someone who's spent a
39:19long time as a young age from starting
39:21because there there is no it's it's
39:23normal normal speech. Is that what
39:25you're saying?
39:26>> Yes.
39:27>> Okay.
39:29Can you see anything on his hands?
39:31>> Uh he's wearing gloves.
39:33>> What type of gloves?
39:34>> Uh black leather gloves.
39:37>> Okay. Now facial experience before you
39:41he tells you to look down. Do you see
39:43anything? Is he got a wide nose? Does he
39:45got is his um any pock marks, any acne,
39:48any facial hair.
40:00The only thing I can really make out is
40:02just the general shape of his face
40:05>> because the only thing I could
40:09>> the thing that caught my attention was
40:12>> the which was the gun. Okay.
40:15>> What about his facial? What about what
40:17he looks like? Tell me about that. You
40:19said about the side or the the uh shape
40:21of his face.
40:25>> It's not round, but it's
40:29it's not a narrow face. I
40:34um
40:38his he didn't have like his cheeks were
40:42protruding but they were they're not
40:45like the normal people. Uh
40:57it oh like almost like a roundish
41:00squarish face.
41:01>> Mhm.
41:03>> Uh his
41:05cheeks he had cheeks. It wasn't like
41:08there like um what they call um
41:12the defined um the the cheekbones like
41:14it was it was almost like round
41:17>> a full full like there was some meat
41:19there, right?
41:20>> Like I wouldn't I wouldn't say fat like
41:22it wasn't like a
41:23>> protruding but it was there was no like
41:25definition.
41:27>> Okay.
41:29And now this guy's age and I know it's
41:31very difficult to define but um you know
41:34people age differently and they have
41:36different appearances. Where would you
41:37put this this this guy?
41:40>> Uh very late 20s to early 30s. So I
41:45would if I had to put numbers I'd say
41:47somewhere between 28 to about 33.
41:51>> If you saw a picture of this guy in a
41:53composite like on a profile do you think
41:56you can identify it?
42:00I wouldn't be 100% certain.
42:03>> Okay. So,
42:04>> if everyone looked like if everyone had
42:07dreadlocks and the face was very
42:09familiar, I didn't get a very very clear
42:13look at his face because I'm sorry, but
42:15the the only thing I could
42:18really see was that he had pointed that
42:21at me. And
42:22>> Okay. Now, I think uh another
42:25possibility is just based on you if we
42:27sat you in front of a composite drawer,
42:29it sounds like you could give them some
42:31some raw information that might be able
42:33to help in that area. Okay. So, if you
42:35can't do that ID, that that one's still
42:37available. Okay. So, now he's uh you've
42:41given he's taken your money. Where and
42:43where exactly where's your money
42:44located? Uh, I my TV is on a on a
42:49bedside table and I keep it in a little
42:52book almost um a day planner but I don't
42:56use it for day planning.
42:57>> Okay.
42:57>> Um, it it was a gift from friends.
43:00>> What are you wearing right now?
43:02>> Um, I'm wearing what I was prepared to
43:04go to bed. I'm wearing my black pants
43:08and um an old figure skating uh sweater
43:12that I had gotten. Describe this sweater
43:14to me. Like, what is it? Does it have
43:16pockets? Does it have a hood? Does it Is
43:18it just a sweater?
43:19>> No, it's just a like a slip-on sweater.
43:21No hood. No pockets.
43:23>> Okay. So, when you get off the phone
43:24with Edward and you're saying, "Where
43:26does this phone go?"
43:28>> I stick it uh right here on the back
43:31side of my pants.
43:33>> Back side of your pants.
43:34>> Yes.
43:35>> So, in the waistband?
43:36>> Yes.
43:37>> Okay.
43:39You open the door. You see this figure?
43:41He's coming. He's taking the money. And
43:42the bed, the nightstand is on what side
43:44of your bed? If you're looking at If
43:46you're looking at the front of your bed
43:48this way, where is the nightstand?
43:50>> Nightstand.
43:51>> It's in front of my bed.
43:53>> Okay. So,
43:53>> it's right beside the the door.
43:56>> Yes.
43:58>> The this the nightstand, the TV, and my
44:01bed is
44:03long towards the TV to watch.
44:06>> Did you take anything else from your
44:07room?
44:09>> Not when I was there? No. Not when you
44:12were there?
44:12>> No.
44:13>> Okay. Did he toss your room?
44:18>> I don't.
44:19>> While you were there?
44:20>> No.
44:21>> Okay. So, he takes you you're you're let
44:24out out to out of the hallway now. And
44:26what happens?
44:27>> And
44:27>> are the lights in the hallway still on?
44:32>> Yes. But he's telling me to look down.
44:34>> Okay.
44:35>> And at this point now, he's behind me.
44:37He had grabbed me at the shirt and he
44:40had pulled me in front of him and uh was
44:45pushing me towards the stairs.
44:47>> Okay.
44:50>> What does he say?
44:52>> He keeps yelling, "Hurry up. Hurry up.
44:58Do what we're saying and no one will get
45:01hurt."
45:03>> Okay.
45:12And then he takes me down the stairs
45:15and the lights on the main floor are all
45:18turned off.
45:21We take
45:26my stairs are a little curved and we
45:29just went he sat. He made me push me
45:31down
45:33by my shoulders and told me to sit on
45:35the floor.
45:36>> Do you feel the gun? Is he using his
45:39hand?
45:39>> He's using his hand to lead me down the
45:42stairs and force me to sit down. Only
45:45one hand.
45:46>> Okay. You see the gun again?
45:49>> At this point, I'm looking down and he's
45:51behind me, so I don't see his gun.
45:54>> Um, but I can see there's two other
45:59shadows and I can see
46:03from where I was standing, my father was
46:05sitting on the right and my mother was
46:07sitting on the left.
46:08>> Sitting where?
46:09>> On a couch. On our couch.
46:12>> Sitting on the couch. Are they looking
46:14out towards you? No, their backs are
46:16towards me.
46:18>> Okay. And you're now on the ground
46:20level. Are you on the floor or on the
46:22sitting?
46:22>> I'm sitting on the floor. I'm sitting on
46:23the floor.
46:24>> All right. Where are your hands?
46:26>> They had tied my hands as I said.
46:28>> Let's go back up to the stairs. Remember
46:30we said take the other statement and
46:32whatever we've said before.
46:33>> No, I I said it earlier.
46:35>> Okay, then we must let's let's get back
46:37to that area. I think you might have
46:38touched on it. We went back into the
46:39description. So, where does where do you
46:41get your hands tied and where does the
46:42string come from?
46:44I'm not sure where the string comes
46:46from, but he had the string.
46:48>> Okay.
46:49>> And he after I gave him my money, that's
46:52when he tied my hands.
46:54>> And how did that happen? Where were you?
46:57In the room, in the hallway, where did
46:58that
46:58>> he told me to sit down on the edge of my
47:01bed?
47:02>> Yes. And that's when I opened he show he
47:06show told me showed show show me and I
47:09pulled open my my drawer my dresser and
47:13he saw the money and he picked it up my
47:17book and then he opened up the book and
47:19grabbed the cash put in his pocket.
47:20>> Okay.
47:23At this point, he still has the gun
47:25pointing towards me.
47:28And he
47:34You're doing great. You're doing
47:36fabulous. Okay. So, he's got the gun
47:39pointed at you.
47:43And how do the hands get behind your
47:45back?
47:45>> He told me to put my hands behind my
47:47back.
47:48>> Okay.
47:52Continue.
48:03I believe he had
48:10I'm sorry. I'm just trying to be 100%
48:12certain
48:13>> and it's just it's pieces that I'm
48:16>> roll through them. We'll put the pieces
48:18together.
48:21I
48:23>> You've got the money out of the drawer.
48:24Open the drawer.
48:25>> Put it in his pocket. I'm sitting on my
48:27bed.
48:27>> Yes.
48:29>> And he had told me to put my hands
48:31behind my back.
48:32>> Okay.
48:35>> But it was dark.
48:38So I believe he told me to stand up so
48:41he could tie my hands together.
48:44And I was trying to
48:47make it loose so I could
48:50I could do something, but he had pulled
48:52them so tight
48:55and he made sure I squealled before he
49:00before he let go.
49:02>> Is your TV on?
49:04>> Okay.
49:04>> My TV's on the whole time.
49:06>> Okay.
49:11>> So, you've squealled. They're tight and
49:12they're behind your back.
49:14>> And that's when he grabs me and starts
49:15leading me down the stairs.
49:17>> Okay. Does he pat you down or search you
49:19or do anything?
49:20>> Thank goodness. No, cuz if he had pat me
49:22down, he would have found my phone.
49:24>> Okay. So, you you're now down at the
49:27bottom of the stairs. You at this point
49:30in time, you've only seen one person or
49:31have you seen the others? Before you get
49:33to the bottom of the stairs?
49:34>> Before I get to the bottom of the
49:35stairs, I had seen one person.
49:39>> Okay. So now you're at the bottom of the
49:41stairs.
49:42>> And he keeps telling these guys to hurry
49:44up. Hurry up. It's taking too long.
49:47And he he told me to look down, but I
49:52was able to
49:54see out of my peripheral.
50:02A man that I will call number three
50:05because I associated with him the least.
50:10He had a gun,
50:15pointed at my father,
50:19asking him if he had money in his wallet
50:23and where the money was in the house.
50:27And he asked my father how much he had
50:29in his wallet. And my father answered
50:32him, " $60." And he kept yelling, "You
50:34better not be lying to me. Is there
50:36more? Where is the rest?
50:41and
50:45another person who was hiding behind
50:49the wall in the kitchen. From where I
50:51stood, I couldn't see him at first.
50:54He had was asking my mother where her
50:56purse was.
50:58>> So, hang on a second. Who is this? Is
51:00this another another guy? Is this number
51:02a number? You've gone from a number one
51:03to a number three.
51:04>> Yes. I I call this guy number two.
51:07>> Okay. So number three, let's stick with
51:08number three. What What can you describe
51:10of him, if anything,
51:13including the gun?
51:16>> I can only see that there was a round
51:20kind of like a revolver.
51:23Sorry.
51:24>> That's okay.
51:25Remember, if you have to stop and take
51:27some deep breaths, it that really does
51:29help the process. His
51:33gun had what you call a re I believe a
51:37revolver
51:38and like one of those things you see in
51:40old old western movies.
51:45And he had I could just see uh almost
51:48like a silhouette of it from the light
51:52uh coming through the the curtains.
51:56>> So in proximity now you're looking
51:58through the peripheral. Okay. Uh, is it
52:01you're looking right or left from where
52:02you are?
52:03>> Um, right.
52:04>> You're looking right. So, you're looking
52:05over here to the right.
52:07>> Okay. And you can see your backs are
52:10your mom and dad who are sitting on the
52:11couch.
52:11>> Yes.
52:12>> Can you see what they're wearing?
52:15>> I can't see what my father's wearing.
52:17>> Can you see what your mom's wearing?
52:20>> At that point in time, I couldn't see
52:21what my mother's wearing. It was later
52:23on that I saw what she was wearing.
52:25>> Okay. So, we'll go on to later on then.
52:28So there you can see them in the back.
52:30And where is the silhouette in relation
52:31to your mom and dad?
52:34>> Standing in front of my father.
52:36>> Okay. So is is is a house this the what
52:40what lights are on on the ground level?
52:43>> None. He they cracked open the fridge a
52:47few times for light, but the only light
52:50on the main floor was the one shining
52:53through the windows and doors.
52:57the this number three guy you hear him
53:00speak. What is what do you what do you
53:02notice about or know about his his um
53:06the words he's speaking accent if any?
53:09>> It's um
53:12it's uh
53:15he's not from he wasn't the accent's not
53:18what I normally hear. It was
53:23almost Caribbean like Jamaican or G or
53:28like that kind of accent.
53:30>> Y
53:31>> um
53:32>> have you got friends who like the reason
53:34I asked you is is the Jamaican accent or
53:36the gy accent have you got friends who
53:38have that accent that you recognize it?
53:40growing up there was uh
53:43growing up uh one of my friends uh was
53:46from Guy Guyana and uh
53:49I remember vaguely like when his parents
53:52came for uh school functions
53:55it was sort of something like that.
53:58>> So it's tweaking you to some a car like
54:00a a western Caribbean island area is
54:02what
54:03>> like Jamaica or or um Guyana something
54:07something like that.
54:08>> Okay. So, you hear him talk and describe
54:11his silhouette to me. What you see of
54:13it.
54:14>> All I could see is that he's slim and
54:17tall.
54:18Um,
54:20again, I was sitting on the floor, but
54:22>> no race.
54:24>> He It was dark, but I
54:30>> You can't put a race to him. Not with I
54:33don't want to put a race with voice. I
54:34want to race by color.
54:37>> I could not see. It was dark. I could
54:39not see his face.
54:41>> Okay.
54:43And now number two. Okay. You say that
54:47doors, fridge doors. Where does he come
54:49into play? Where do you first see him?
54:51>> I first see him when he's asking my
54:53mother where her purse is.
54:56And um they kept telling us that if we
54:58just cooperated everything would be
55:01okay.
55:02>> So she just just interrupt you because
55:05we I want to stay on get back to three
55:07before we move on to two. Is is three
55:09when is it is number three how is his
55:11interaction with your father when he's
55:12telling him about demanding the money
55:14and the only money and not lying to him
55:17is this like is he talking in a low
55:20monotone voice or is he yelling at him
55:22how is the how's the interaction going
55:28>> a stern voice
55:30>> stern but not screaming
55:33not angry
55:36okay so I interrupted you. Now, back to
55:38number two where he's asking your mom
55:40for
55:41her wallet.
55:42>> Her purse.
55:43>> Her purse.
55:43>> Her purse at first.
55:45>> And this is at the point where my mother
55:47stands up and that's when I saw that's
55:51when I saw her clothes again.
55:53>> Okay.
55:53>> At this point in the night, obvious.
55:56>> And what is she wearing?
55:58>> She's still wearing her Winnie the Poo
55:59pajamas as she was when I had come down
56:01earlier.
56:02>> Okay.
56:06And I
56:08all I could see was that
56:13he had pushed her back onto the couch
56:14and she
56:15>> whom pushed her
56:16>> number two.
56:17>> Okay.
56:17>> I was pushing her back onto the couch
56:20and she she kept saying, "Where's my
56:22purse? Where's my purse?"
56:25And the guy kept telling her to sit down
56:27and I didn't want my mom to get hurt.
56:34How many times does she get up and get
56:36pushed back down?
56:44I'd say she got up twice
56:48and and then they told the first time
56:52she stepped back and sat down, but the
56:54second time she was pushed back onto the
56:56couch.
56:57>> This is only by number two. Yes, cuz
57:00number one was standing behind me.
57:02>> Is he saying anything during this
57:04process?
57:05>> He keeps uttering that we have to hurry
57:08up. It's taking too long.
57:12And that's at that point that's he kept
57:15saying hurry up. It's taking too long.
57:19>> Is there any other demands from either
57:21two or three or one about
57:25>> about wallet or purse? Is there any
57:26other
57:27>> two was the one talking to my father
57:29asking about his wallet and number one
57:33and he kept saying where's the rest of
57:34the money and where's the purse was
57:38coming from number one.
57:40>> Number one behind you.
57:41>> Yes.
57:42>> I thought
57:43>> but number two didn't speak.
57:46>> Okay. Well, you just said number two is
57:47the one who's making demands of
57:49>> No, he's the one looking.
57:51>> Okay.
57:51>> He's the one looking. So, number two, as
57:54we we're stepping back to because I
57:56don't want to confuse this thing. I want
57:57to slow it down. No, no, no, no. Don't
57:59be sorry. We're just going to slow it
58:01down. Okay. You're you're getting
58:02agitated and and and um you're anxious.
58:06So, we're going to slow things down
58:08again because it's very important in
58:10this area, right? Is you had said that
58:13number two talks to your mom and says,
58:17"Where's your purse?"
58:19>> Okay.
58:19>> And pushes her down. So now you said
58:22that number two didn't speak. So let's
58:24clarify that.
58:25>> Okay.
58:25>> What I meant was number one had asked
58:27her where her purse was and she was
58:29mumbling where's my purse and number two
58:31was the one that pushed her.
58:33>> So your number number one is talking to
58:35your mom from behind you.
58:37>> Yes.
58:37>> Okay. Where's your purse? Where's your
58:39purse?
58:39>> Yes. She gets up and number two
58:43>> number two steps forward and that's when
58:47my mom steps back and sits down.
58:51>> Has number two uttered a word at this
58:53point in time.
58:55>> I can't remember hearing him.
58:57>> Okay. So, we're just correcting what you
59:00said earlier because you said earlier
59:01that it was number two who was asking
59:03where the purse is. What are the purses?
59:04And now you've said now it's number one
59:07guy who would initially sorry
59:09>> no no no it's all a purpose the purpose
59:12here is clarifying what you're saying.
59:14So number one is
59:15>> I just don't want to
59:16>> number one is the one who's doing the
59:18talking about the purse. Number three is
59:21focused on your dad's wall.
59:24Okay. Number two pushes your mom back
59:27into place into the scene. Now at this
59:29point in time can you see number two?
59:31Can you see his description?
59:33>> At this point in time, all I could see
59:35is a hoodie and slim build.
59:37>> A hoodie and slim build. Do you see a
59:39gun on him?
59:40>> I'm on the floor. I can't see what like
59:44what his hands were doing.
59:45>> When you say you're on the floor, how
59:47are you on the floor? How are you? What
59:49are you How What's your position? Are
59:50you lying on the floor? You sitting on
59:51the floor?
59:52>> I'm sitting on the floor
59:55cross-legged when
59:58with the number one behind me.
1:00:00>> Okay.
1:00:02So, you've now um you've now got your
1:00:08dad like who's told him about the wallet
1:00:10upstairs was $60. You got your mom who's
1:00:13they're asking about a purse from number
1:00:15one. Let's go from there.
1:00:21How is your mom dealing with this when
1:00:22she's getting up and getting pushed back
1:00:24down? Is she responding to them? Is she
1:00:26talking to them?
1:00:28She keeps saying cuz they keep uttering
1:00:30if you cooperate
1:00:32no one will get hurt.
1:00:35And
1:00:39she keeps asking herself, "Where's my
1:00:42purse? Where's my purse?"
1:00:45in English.
1:00:50And then I believe she remembers that
1:00:53she didn't take a purse out. She only
1:00:54had a wallet that day.
1:00:58After she came home, she had a wallet.
1:01:02She was trying to find it and number two
1:01:04was looking around for it. Was she up
1:01:07helping to look for it?
1:01:09>> That the second time, that's when she
1:01:11stood up to help and that's when she got
1:01:12pushed back down.
1:01:14>> Okay.
1:01:18Are they bound? Do you see their hands
1:01:20or
1:01:21>> my mother when she got up I she was not
1:01:23bound.
1:01:24>> Okay.
1:01:26So, do they direct number two to where
1:01:28this per where the wallet is or does he
1:01:30find it that you know?
1:01:33>> I don't know.
1:01:34>> Okay. So, then what happens?
1:01:37>> And then
1:01:39number one tells me to stand up and
1:01:42because I'm cross-legged on the floor, I
1:01:44with my hands behind my back, I couldn't
1:01:46get up very well. And so he kind of he
1:01:50with one hand he kind of pulled me up.
1:01:56And
1:01:58he said come here.
1:02:01He didn't say who or what. He just said
1:02:04come here.
1:02:06And he brought me upstairs and he said
1:02:08you're going to take me to the wallet.
1:02:11Show me where your father's wallet.
1:02:12Where does he keep his wallet?
1:02:24And at this point, number two had come
1:02:25upstairs.
1:02:28And since he was upstairs,
1:02:32>> I'm just turning this off cuz that's
1:02:33going number two. Sorry, sir. Let's
1:02:35start there. Hang on a second again.
1:02:36Come with me. Come with me. He they take
1:02:39me to my parents' room and I can see the
1:02:42bed is turned over and everything's arai
1:02:46>> and you're with um
1:02:48>> number one is still behind me.
1:02:49>> Yes.
1:02:50>> And number two at that point is on his
1:02:52way up.
1:02:53>> Okay. So he's not up there yet.
1:02:55>> Okay. Do you hear any interaction going
1:02:57on between your parents and number
1:02:59three? Can you hear anything?
1:03:09I don't recall anything.
1:03:10>> Okay. So, you get to the top of the
1:03:11stairs
1:03:12>> and he takes me to my parents' room.
1:03:14>> Where are you standing?
1:03:16>> At first, I was standing at the doorway,
1:03:17like in the middle of the doorway, and
1:03:19then he pushed me aside to my left a
1:03:22little so that number two can come in.
1:03:24>> Okay. Do you get a good look at number
1:03:26two now of what he's wearing?
1:03:28>> All I could tell was he had a vest and
1:03:30his face was like a long oval face. He
1:03:33had a vest.
1:03:34>> No, hoodie.
1:03:36>> Okay.
1:03:38>> Uh, dark hoodie.
1:03:39>> Okay. And was there anything on his face
1:03:41or was there could you see his face
1:03:44>> again? He kept telling me to keep my
1:03:45head down and every time I tried to, he
1:03:48used his hand and he cuz he had me by my
1:03:51shoulder. He kind of just let go for a
1:03:53second, push my head down to make sure I
1:03:55wouldn't look up.
1:03:56>> Okay. Is the where you know what the
1:03:58light what the lights you said in the
1:04:00hallway upstairs were on. Are they on
1:04:01still?
1:04:02>> Yes. Okay. When you're looking down, can
1:04:04you see what number one is wearing on
1:04:06his pants or his shoes?
1:04:09>> He was
1:04:10not directly behind me. And I was there
1:04:14was just so much in front of me that had
1:04:16happened and I don't recall.
1:04:19>> Okay. So, where are you facing if you're
1:04:23at the doorway
1:04:24>> facing
1:04:25>> when you're looking in? Are the lights
1:04:26to your mom and dad's room on?
1:04:29>> Are you now facing into the room? And
1:04:32what do you see? You said you saw the
1:04:33bed turned upside turned. So the room
1:04:36has been rummaged through. Is is is what
1:04:38your is that the state of your parents'
1:04:39room?
1:04:40>> No.
1:04:40>> Okay.
1:04:41>> It was it like they had flipped the bed.
1:04:44>> Okay. And when you say you move to the
1:04:47left, are you still able to look inside
1:04:49the bedroom?
1:04:51Where do they have you look? Where are
1:04:53you looking now?
1:04:53>> Almost like I'm right beside the wall.
1:04:55And my parents have a my mother has a
1:04:58sewing table there.
1:05:00>> Okay. So, I'm just staring at I'm like
1:05:03looking down at the table
1:05:06>> and peripherals. You can't see where
1:05:08where
1:05:09>> he's No.
1:05:10>> And where is number one at this point
1:05:11now?
1:05:12>> He's still behind me.
1:05:13>> Okay. So, what's going on inside the
1:05:16room with number two now in there?
1:05:17>> He's looking for my parents, my father's
1:05:19jeans, and he's asking me where is it?
1:05:22But I don't know where it is cuz they
1:05:24had turned the room around.
1:05:27And
1:05:29then number one pulled me backwards and
1:05:32told me to sit at the top of the
1:05:34banister
1:05:35and tied my hands back. Uh tied my arm
1:05:39to the banister.
1:05:40>> Okay. Now, did did you see them recover
1:05:43anything inside your mom and dad's room?
1:05:46>> I did not see anything. No.
1:05:50>> Are you sure? Because uh we would when
1:05:53we spoke the last time, there was some
1:05:54mention of some other money that went
1:05:56missing.
1:06:07There are
1:06:11>> yes the US currency.
1:06:13>> So how did that get found?
1:06:26I believe when they were looking for my
1:06:28father's wallet, they had opened the
1:06:31drawer
1:06:33and there was a it was in an envelope.
1:06:35>> What drawer would that have been in?
1:06:37>> On my
1:06:39on the if you're in at the door where
1:06:42where I was standing on the left side
1:06:44the bedside table.
1:06:46>> Whose side of the bed is it?
1:06:48>> That's my mother's side of the bed.
1:06:50Okay. And approximately how much money?
1:06:55>> I'm not sure how much he took out for
1:06:57our our trip,
1:07:00>> but I can I can only estimate about a
1:07:04few hundred.
1:07:05>> Few hundred. Because at the time, the
1:07:06last time you told me, you were pretty
1:07:08adamant about $1,100. So, I'm curious to
1:07:11know how you came up with that number.
1:07:18I believe is when we were at the border
1:07:21we and we stopped at the duty-free my
1:07:24mother was deciding whether to use her
1:07:25US currency or her
1:07:28her US currency or her Canadian
1:07:30currency.
1:07:33So, it was at that time you remember
1:07:34hearing $1,100
1:07:36and that's what is that the inference
1:07:38you're saying is that because you're
1:07:40pretty solid saying that it was $1,100
1:07:42that went missing that was was taken
1:07:46and that you saw it
1:07:48when we spoke
1:07:54and who took it who took possession of
1:07:56the money.
1:07:58>> I'm sorry.
1:07:59>> It's all right. Were
1:08:04you ever inside the room? Did they ever
1:08:06take you inside the room? Did you ever
1:08:07make it past the threshold of that door?
1:08:16>> I don't remember.
1:08:23>> Okay. So, let's come back to now. You're
1:08:27being taken to the the banister in the
1:08:28upper room. Don't apologize. Okay? I'm
1:08:31going to try and ask you questions to
1:08:33try and clarify points. Okay? If you
1:08:36don't remember, you don't remember.
1:08:39>> Okay? So, don't there's no apologizing.
1:08:41The only reason you would apologize to
1:08:42me is if you've lied to me.
1:08:44>> No.
1:08:45>> Okay. I just
1:08:46>> So, then in this case, then don't
1:08:47apologize to me. It's okay. Okay. I'm
1:08:50going to ask you questions to clarify
1:08:51points.
1:08:52>> Okay.
1:08:53>> So, you're at the you've been taken back
1:08:54to the banister. Who is there?
1:08:57>> Number one took me back. Okay. Where's
1:08:59number two?
1:09:00>> He was still in the bedroom.
1:09:02>> Okay.
1:09:05How do you get tied to this banister?
1:09:15He number one
1:09:19number two had come out of
1:09:22come out of the room
1:09:24and he had told number two
1:09:29go get cousy for the string. Uh, no. It
1:09:32was go get cuz
1:09:41he had said that I need the string. Go
1:09:44get cuz.
1:09:47And number two ran down the stairs and
1:09:48he came back up shortly after.
1:09:51And then
1:10:07And I believe number two is the one that
1:10:08tied me up
1:10:11cuz number one was still holding the gun
1:10:12in front of me.
1:10:13>> So number one is now in front of you.
1:10:15>> He has been in front of me since he
1:10:17pulled me out of the bedroom.
1:10:18>> Okay.
1:10:19>> And he sat me down and he was in front
1:10:21of me making sure I was down.
1:10:23So, on this gun that you're looking at
1:10:25that's in front of you, is there can you
1:10:27see what type of gun is it? Does it have
1:10:28a cylinder or round thing like an old
1:10:30gun or does it look like more
1:10:32>> it like uh it just reminded me of the
1:10:35like television police like the
1:10:38handguns?
1:10:38>> Yeah.
1:10:40>> Yeah.
1:10:40>> Okay. And it's black.
1:10:43Can you see from there? Now you're in
1:10:45front of him and you're looking down.
1:10:46Can you see his shoes? Can you see
1:10:47anything else about him? I want you to
1:10:49think right now. just try to it's tough
1:10:51to put yourself back in that spot, but
1:10:54you've never been tied up, I suspect, or
1:10:56bound like that. And now you're sitting
1:10:57there staring down. Can you Is there
1:10:59anything that you remember about his
1:11:00shoes or his pants?
1:11:11Any idea where this string came from?
1:11:13Does Does it Does it Well, you're you're
1:11:15seeing it come around cuz it's now lit.
1:11:18Does it look like it's come from some
1:11:21from clothing or from shoes that you
1:11:22might have in your house
1:11:25or you don't know?
1:11:27>> It just
1:11:29it just look like a black shoelace. I
1:11:34>> Okay.
1:11:36>> Any any interaction, any communication
1:11:39going on between you and number one and
1:11:40and number two while this is being while
1:11:43you're being bound?
1:11:44>> My mother's calling for me.
1:11:46>> Okay. And they keep saying
1:11:49that
1:11:51to shut up.
1:11:54>> Who's saying that to who?
1:11:56>> Number three is downstairs and she's
1:11:58telling her to shut up.
1:11:59>> He's telling him to shut up. What's your
1:12:01dad doing?
1:12:02>> I can't hear my father.
1:12:04>> Okay.
1:12:08You're now bound to this to the to the
1:12:10railing. Can you show me? Can you stand
1:12:12up and turn around and tell me just show
1:12:14on the camera how your hands are bound
1:12:18and how you are against the railing? You
1:12:20don't have to sit down. I just need to
1:12:21see how you were.
1:12:29just tell you
1:12:31>> the only reason that I'm trying to I I
1:12:33need to do this is that I'm also going
1:12:35to ask you is that it's so take this
1:12:36back to from take it out of a
1:12:39traumatizing event which it is and put
1:12:41put yourself into more clinical position
1:12:43because I want to see how you could
1:12:45physically get your phone out of your
1:12:46waistband. We're obviously going to need
1:12:48to know that. It's very important. So
1:12:51traumatize a wide way. Now, put yourself
1:12:53into a just a state of I need to man
1:12:56mechanically show how I can get access
1:12:58to my phone. Okay? Because that's
1:13:00obviously very relevant. I we know you
1:13:02made the phone call, but questions are
1:13:04going to obviously raise is that if my
1:13:06hands are bound and I'm against a
1:13:08railing, how do I talk to a 911
1:13:10operator? Okay, so clinically, this is
1:13:13now a clinical demonstration.
1:13:16Just stand up, focus in on how you did
1:13:19it.
1:13:25And I want you to stick that in your
1:13:26waistband as an example. Okay? So, take
1:13:28your just take your sweater off because
1:13:30this will be a very smooth, very quick
1:13:32thing. It's a one-time demonstration.
1:13:33I'm not going to ask you to repeat it,
1:13:35but I need to go through it. Okay? So,
1:13:37just take your sweater off.
1:13:48Stand up and turn around.
1:13:51Put this in the side that you believe it
1:13:52was in.
1:13:55Great. Turn around so that only you're
1:13:58looking away from me. You're looking
1:13:59exactly like now here is where the
1:14:01banister is. Put your hands back behind
1:14:03your back is exactly how you remember
1:14:05they were.
1:14:07Okay. Now, and you are you restrained
1:14:10from movement? How far can you move your
1:14:12hands from the banister?
1:14:15>> They tied my upper arm.
1:14:17>> Yes.
1:14:18>> Around the banister. Yes.
1:14:20>> But my hands are bound together.
1:14:22>> So your hands bound together and this is
1:14:23the arm that's the the strings wrapped
1:14:25around against the banister.
1:14:26>> Mhm.
1:14:27>> Okay. So now how can you get to the
1:14:29phone?
1:14:32>> And how do you make the phone call?
1:14:38911.
1:14:39>> Mhm.
1:14:40>> And do you talk down like that?
1:14:42>> Yes. I'm yelling at the phone like this.
1:14:44>> And how can you hear?
1:14:47>> I turn the volume on max. Yes.
1:14:50So, that's exactly the way that you're
1:14:52talking to her against the railing.
1:14:55Mhm.
1:14:55>> Okay, that's good enough. Sit down. Put
1:14:57your sweater back on.
1:15:02>> Yeah, just put your
1:15:03>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:15:07You want to You want some more water?
1:15:10>> I'm okay.
1:15:11>> Okay. I really appreciate that.
1:15:13Obviously, it's very important to see it
1:15:15because we can't put you either. We
1:15:17would it would be absolutely physically
1:15:20impossible to put you back in the same
1:15:22position, but we just needed to see how
1:15:25you get the phone out and and make the
1:15:28call.
1:15:36Okay. So, sit back, take a couple of
1:15:39deep breaths again.
1:15:47When you're when you're up against the
1:15:49railing and now you've been bound
1:15:52and
1:15:54is number two and number one still there
1:15:56or are they gone?
1:15:57>> Number one was there for a little bit.
1:16:00Number two ran down the stairs.
1:16:01>> What is number one? Is he saying
1:16:02anything to you?
1:16:05He's saying you obeyed
1:16:10and just shut up and don't move.
1:16:16And he continues yelling downstairs,
1:16:18"Hurry up.
1:16:20Hurry up. It's taking too long. Hurry
1:16:22up."
1:16:29Now tell me something, okay? which is
1:16:32kind of important.
1:16:35There's a safe in the house, is there
1:16:36not?
1:16:41>> Safe is in a fairly visible place within
1:16:45within your parents' bedroom, is it not?
1:16:48>> It's inside of their closet.
1:16:50>> Fairly visible accord at least from the
1:16:52pictures.
1:16:56>> Was there ever mention of wanting the
1:16:59combination to that safe?
1:17:04through any of the interaction of one,
1:17:06two, and three, did they know that there
1:17:07was a safe in place?
1:17:12>> I don't I I'm not aware if they knew.
1:17:17>> Okay.
1:17:18>> I didn't.
1:17:19>> So, you never heard any of them
1:17:20demanding the safe the the the um the
1:17:22combination to the safe?
1:17:29Was there anything else they were
1:17:30demanding in their yelling? It was was
1:17:32it was it what was the focus of what
1:17:34they were looking for?
1:17:36>> Cash.
1:17:36>> Cash.
1:17:41Okay. So, number one's talking to you.
1:17:44You obeyed
1:17:47and we need to go. We need to go.
1:17:52And where does he go from that point in
1:17:53time?
1:17:54>> He's yelling down the stairs.
1:17:57Is there more?
1:18:00And number two, I can just hear him
1:18:02muffling something. I I don't hear him
1:18:05clearly.
1:18:06>> Number two or number three?
1:18:08>> No, sorry. Number three. Number three.
1:18:12>> Number three.
1:18:13>> Okay.
1:18:15>> It's just a myrr, but I can't I can't
1:18:18hear what he's saying.
1:18:20>> Okay.
1:18:26At this point, I start hearing my
1:18:27parents get up
1:18:30and they're moving and my mom's yelling,
1:18:33"Where's my daughter? I want my
1:18:34daughter. Where's my daughter?"
1:18:37And I'm yelling, "Mom, I'm here."
1:18:42Are they saying anything to your
1:18:43parents?
1:18:47>> I know she's yelling to you.
1:18:49>> Okay, she's she's yelling to you.
1:18:53Are they saying anything?
1:18:59>> Like, are they giving them directions as
1:19:01to where they're going?
1:19:22or can you remember?
1:19:23>> All we can hear is my bulb right now.
1:19:26>> Okay.
1:19:29>> So, you hear them get up and you're
1:19:31moving and they're moving in what
1:19:32direction?
1:19:36>> Towards the basement.
1:19:38>> Okay.
1:19:40Are you still hearing one and two or one
1:19:42and three? Are you hearing all three of
1:19:43them?
1:19:45>> Number one.
1:19:46>> And what's he saying? Hurry up. Is there
1:19:50more?
1:19:59>> Okay.
1:20:01>> At this point, he throws my glasses.
1:20:08>> Then he walks down the stairs.
1:20:10>> So, he's still up there with you. When
1:20:13do you And and this So, you've had your
1:20:15glasses on the whole time. When does he
1:20:16take them off?
1:20:18>> Right before he leaves.
1:20:19>> Right after. So you're you're tied to
1:20:21the banister. You're just before he
1:20:23leaves to go down the stairs. Your
1:20:25glasses are off. You have had your
1:20:27glasses on the whole time prior to that.
1:20:29Okay.
1:20:34So now you hear your parents up and
1:20:36they're moving towards the basement. Do
1:20:38you What do you hear?
1:20:41>> Where's the rest of the money?
1:20:48Whose voice?
1:20:51>> The one with the Caribbean accent.
1:20:53>> Number three.
1:20:55Who we've called number three?
1:20:57>> Yes.
1:20:57>> Where's the rest of the money?
1:20:59>> Is that as your as you hear your parents
1:21:01moving?
1:21:02>> I can hear them stepping down the
1:21:03stairs.
1:21:04>> Okay.
1:21:06>> And then after number one joins them
1:21:10after he took my glasses.
1:21:13You heard him go down the stairs as
1:21:15well.
1:21:16>> Number one then left me.
1:21:18>> Yes.
1:21:18>> And he went down the stairs and I asked
1:21:21my mom was still calling for me and I
1:21:23wanted to go and he says no.
1:21:30>> You should have taken me.
1:21:31>> Okay, hang on a second. Hang on.
1:21:37So number you hear number one say no to
1:21:40your response to your demand of wanting
1:21:42to go. Do you hear the questions coming
1:21:44or your mom saying where is she? Where
1:21:46is she? Are she starting to make her Are
1:21:48they starting to go down to the
1:21:49basement? Are they on the stairs leading
1:21:51to the basement?
1:21:53Can you hear I'm I'm going to ask you to
1:21:55focus in because it's very difficult.
1:21:57I'm going to ask you to focus in. Are
1:21:59you hearing all of them going
1:22:00downstairs?
1:22:03Can you hear that many footsteps? That's
1:22:05five sets of steps.
1:22:14Cuz if your mom is moving down to the
1:22:15basement with these guys and number one
1:22:17is walking down to join them, he would
1:22:19be he would be later. He he would be
1:22:21walking down. Does he go down to the
1:22:22basement or do you know?
1:22:28Can't tell
1:22:33here. Jennifer, take a Kleenex
1:22:37and just
1:22:39take a minute.
1:22:55Okay, so we're now down in the basement.
1:22:58They're down in the You know, your
1:22:59parents are down in the basement. You
1:23:00don't know who's down there with them.
1:23:03You can't tell how many people went
1:23:04down. You know that number one left and
1:23:07was heading in down in that direction,
1:23:09but you don't know by footsteps who's
1:23:12down there.
1:23:12>> I wasn't paying attention.
1:23:13>> That's all right. Whose voices can you
1:23:16hear now down in the basement?
1:23:23>> I just remember number three.
1:23:27You lied. There's more. Where is it? You
1:23:30lied.
1:23:32You're lying.
1:23:39>> Okay. And then what do you hear?
1:24:03I hear a
1:24:08heard pop.
1:24:10But then my mom, I heard her squeal.
1:24:14>> So, do you hear one pop or do you hear
1:24:16two?
1:24:17>> That's what I can't remember.
1:24:19>> Then don't. It's It's one or two. Okay.
1:24:23And then you hear your mom squeal.
1:24:27And then what do you hear?
1:24:34>> Another one or two pops.
1:24:36>> Do you hear any voices in between other
1:24:37than your mom squealing? Do you hear
1:24:39number three say anything?
1:24:40>> Oh, my mom's like calling for her.
1:24:43>> Okay.
1:24:47Don't apologize. Okay. This is nothing
1:24:49to feel to apologize to me for. This is
1:24:52something that you're trying to
1:24:53remember. So, you heard a pop, you heard
1:24:56your mom squeal, and then you heard
1:24:59another.
1:25:01Any idea how many more pops you heard?
1:25:06I just remember that I heard one or two,
1:25:08and then there was
1:25:10slight break
1:25:13and there was one more.
1:25:16I don't remember if it was two and then
1:25:18break and then one or if it was one and
1:25:20then break and then one.
1:25:22>> Okay. So, you're saying that you heard a
1:25:24total of how many pops? Guessing?
1:25:33>> Four or five.
1:25:34>> Four or five. Okay. So, you hear after
1:25:37those pops popping noises,
1:25:41what do you hear? After the last popping
1:25:43noise you've heard, what do you hear?
1:25:45>> That's it.
1:25:49It's too long. Let's go. from number
1:25:52one.
1:25:53>> That's it. It's too long. Let's go.
1:25:56>> Okay.
1:25:59>> I just hear a bunch of foots going.
1:26:06>> Does it sound like they're obviously
1:26:07coming? Does it sound coming up the
1:26:09stairs? Do you know where they leave?
1:26:20I
1:26:23I believe they went out the front door.
1:26:25>> Okay.
1:26:26>> But I couldn't see anything. I just It's
1:26:28what I heard.
1:26:29>> So, what you're hearing?
1:26:32What else do you hear next?
1:26:34>> Then I heard was the door closed. I
1:26:37heard my father. He ran up the stairs
1:26:40and all I could hear was moaning.
1:26:44Yeah.
1:26:46Once I heard him starting to move, I
1:26:48that's when I pulled out the phone and I
1:26:50was trying to call 911.
1:26:52>> Okay.
1:26:58Did you hear after you hear that's it,
1:27:00let's go, do you hear any more
1:27:02communication between the three guys?
1:27:14>> Okay. I didn't I was just calling for my
1:27:16mom.
1:27:21>> Okay. So, you're dialing 911. You've
1:27:23called the police. You know, you're on
1:27:25the phone with the dispatcher. You're
1:27:27updating him as to what goes on.
1:27:33And my I heard my dad calling out the
1:27:36door and he's like yelling on this
1:27:37street.
1:27:40>> Okay. And I'm calling for him, but this
1:27:42dispatch lady, I'm trying to
1:27:51>> So when the officers arrive,
1:27:56how do you get untied?
1:28:13Do you remember?
1:28:14>> At first they were all outside. I I was
1:28:16screaming for them.
1:28:17>> Yeah.
1:28:19>> And
1:28:21finally someone heard me and they came
1:28:24up the stairs.
1:28:30First they had to check all the rooms
1:28:32first, but I just wanted them to get me
1:28:34out.
1:28:34>> Yeah. I don't want to be sitting there.
1:28:45>> So, they How did they get you free?
1:28:50>> They grabbed a pair of scissors from my
1:28:53room,
1:28:56but the officer said to wait a few
1:28:58minutes cuz he didn't know how to how to
1:29:00do the procedure. I just wanted to get
1:29:03out.
1:29:05I think it was you, my dad.
1:29:14He cut me. He let me go, but he he cut
1:29:20he cut the
1:29:29Now you when you took out off your
1:29:31sweater to show me the demonstration,
1:29:33there's still some marks on your arm.
1:29:35Are those the marks from the string?
1:29:38No. Where are they from?
1:29:41>> From before.
1:29:43>> Okay. So, history-wise, we'll go into
1:29:44that. Okay. So
1:29:48now
1:29:50as an event as to try and see this is
1:29:54the uh the little the little technique
1:29:56that we use to try and see if there's
1:29:59something during the course of what
1:30:00you've told me that boom I trigger
1:30:03something another memory. Okay, we're
1:30:06going to start
1:30:08right now. We're going to start at the
1:30:09point that you're being you're the
1:30:11officers arrive. Okay. And we're going
1:30:15backwards. Not nearly as I don't need
1:30:17you to go into the we're not going to be
1:30:19stopping here and going through to what
1:30:21about this and what about this. It's you
1:30:24may come across something. It's the re
1:30:26reverse chronology of what you just
1:30:28described.
1:30:29Okay. Leading us back to the time you're
1:30:33in upstairs talking to Edward.
1:30:37So I want you to start right now with
1:30:39your police officers arrive and they're
1:30:41cutting you free. And now let's start
1:30:43going backwards from that.
1:31:12Okay.
1:31:14>> Just don't want to say
1:31:17wrong things. So, just
1:31:19>> don't This is Don't worry about saying
1:31:22wrong things because you'll be you'll be
1:31:23correcting them as you're moving moving
1:31:25backwards. Okay? It's a very well
1:31:27practiced technique to help in memories.
1:31:30So especially in traumatic events.
1:31:41>> So my dad was he had been out the door.
1:31:45>> Yes.
1:31:48>> And he was moaning.
1:31:57And just before that
1:32:00they had left. The the the people had
1:32:03left
1:32:29Number one heads.
1:32:32It's been too long.
1:32:35Let's go.
1:32:46Before that was a gunshot.
1:32:50Before
1:32:54that, they were scolding my dad for
1:32:56lying cuz that there was more money and
1:32:58he wasn't telling them where it was.
1:33:19before that.
1:33:25They were going down.
1:33:32>> You're doing great. Okay, you're doing
1:33:34great.
1:33:41Just before that, they were going down
1:33:43the stairs,
1:33:45but I could just hear my parents'
1:33:48footsteps and my mom.
1:33:51So, I don't know how many of them went
1:33:53down,
1:33:56but I know for sure number one was
1:33:57upstairs with me while they were
1:33:59starting to go down.
1:34:02And then number one,
1:34:05that's when like he was taking off my
1:34:07glasses. And that's when he went down
1:34:09the stairs.
1:34:11I might have seeing something. Maybe
1:34:31before that
1:34:37they tied
1:34:51before that. Number two was upstairs as
1:34:53well
1:34:55and he was helping number one. Ty the
1:34:58banister
1:35:02before that. Number one turned to number
1:35:04two
1:35:06and said, "Go get I need get me the
1:35:09string. Go get cuz
1:35:18that's when number two went down the
1:35:20stairs and came back up with the string.
1:35:31Before
1:35:36that,
1:35:38number one had taken me and told me to
1:35:42sit down
1:35:44the top of the stairs.
1:35:47Number two was still in the bedroom.
1:36:17before that.
1:36:39We were in my parents' room
1:36:42and he was asking about the wallet.
1:36:44Where's my dad's wallet?
1:36:53Don't remember how they got the money.
1:37:06Don't worry about it. Keep going.
1:37:08>> I don't remember how they got the money.
1:37:19Before that, we was downstairs.
1:37:23They're looking for my mom's purse.
1:37:28Number three was asking about the
1:37:30wallet. Number two was looking for my
1:37:32mom's purse.
1:37:36My mom kept standing up and sitting down
1:37:38and they pushed her.
1:37:41Number
1:37:53Before
1:37:59that, I was in my room.
1:38:08That's when he tied me up.
1:38:19But before that, I showed him the money.
1:38:22Before that,
1:38:25I had heard them toss my parents' room.
1:38:27And that's when I looked out. No, the
1:38:29guy went down the stairs. And then I
1:38:30looked out.
1:38:37That's when he came. He pulled out his
1:38:39gun and told me to sit on my bed.
1:38:45Before that,
1:38:48I heard my mom
1:38:50tell my dad to come downstairs.
1:38:53And that's when I told Ed I'd call him
1:38:56back and put my phone
1:39:00in my back.
1:39:04That okay?
1:39:05>> Yes.
1:39:07>> When you said um that you saw during
1:39:10this process, you you heard the steps of
1:39:12the guy someone going downstairs, did
1:39:13you hear your father going down the
1:39:15stairs
1:39:17at ever at that point in time?
1:39:29I heard him get out of his room,
1:39:35but then that's when I was telling Ed
1:39:37that I'd call him back.
1:39:39>> He was responding to your mom's command.
1:39:42>> Yes.
1:39:47Okay.
1:39:50In your kitchen
1:39:54there is
1:39:57uh rear sliding doors,
1:40:00is there not in your in the back area to
1:40:02get out to the back of your house? Is it
1:40:04sliding glass doors?
1:40:06>> Yes.
1:40:09>> How is that normally? How do you what is
1:40:11the normal position of of the blinds or
1:40:14or whatever when you during the day? Do
1:40:17you keep them covered? Are they exposed?
1:40:19Can you easily have access to get out to
1:40:21the backyard or do you have to open
1:40:23them? Like how is the normal routine?
1:40:31It differs from
1:40:36it differs from time of day and time of
1:40:38year. Um, my mom
1:40:50likes to plant. So, in the daytime we
1:40:53have our blinds open. Um,
1:40:58they're all the way out, but they're
1:40:59open to let sunlight in. And at night,
1:41:02we close them because of
1:41:06our backyard neighbors.
1:41:09Okay.
1:41:11The sliding glass door,
1:41:14is it locked all the time?
1:41:17>> Occasionally,
1:41:20it's forgotten to be locked,
1:41:23but for the most part, we do check it
1:41:25before we go to bed, before everybody.
1:41:27The last person is supposed to check
1:41:29everything before turning in.
1:41:31>> But on some occasions, it's How do you
1:41:34know that it's been unlocked? When my
1:41:37mother goes out to water the plants the
1:41:38next morning, it's open
1:41:40>> and she makes a comment about that.
1:41:42>> She comments to my father that he had
1:41:44forgotten when he went out to water his
1:41:46grass and the night before.
1:41:50>> What about your front door? How do you
1:41:52What is that when you guys are home or
1:41:56when you guys are home in the house? Do
1:41:58you lock your front door? Do you keep it
1:42:00or do you keep it unlocked?
1:42:04Occasionally it's left unlocked
1:42:07because
1:42:11the way our family is, we have family
1:42:13that come over after dinner. So
1:42:15sometimes we leave the door unlocked,
1:42:17but it will always be locked before bed.
1:42:20The last person going into bed,
1:42:21>> the last person always locks it.
1:42:23>> Yes.
1:42:24>> And you said something about
1:42:26>> Sorry.
1:42:26>> activates the alarm as well.
1:42:29Um, we activate the alarm before we go.
1:42:31Well, we leave the house.
1:42:33>> So there's It's not activated when
1:42:35you're in the house and you're going to
1:42:36bed. It's only when there's no one in
1:42:38the house.
1:42:39>> Yes.
1:42:41>> Um,
1:42:50when was the last time that you went out
1:42:51through the back the back sliding glass
1:42:53doors that you remember?
1:43:01Oh, while I'd say
1:43:06the only time I go back there is if I'm
1:43:08barbecuing
1:43:12um the occasion my mom needs help
1:43:15carrying a
1:43:20if she needs help carrying something
1:43:22heavy.
1:43:23>> Okay.
1:43:26What about a strangers knock on your
1:43:27door?
1:43:33>> Whoever's downstairs normally goes to
1:43:35answer the door.
1:43:37>> Will they look out or will they just
1:43:39open the door?
1:43:39>> No. Uh they tried to look through the
1:43:42sheerness of our curtain.
1:43:46Would you have you ever heard your mom
1:43:48or dad like if there's someone at the
1:43:50door who they don't recognize to go away
1:43:51and they won't open the door or will
1:43:53they always open the door to find out
1:43:54who even if they don't recognize
1:43:56someone?
1:43:56>> Well, they try to go as quietly as
1:43:58possible and if they don't like a
1:44:01telemarketer or something, they just
1:44:03walk away.
1:44:05>> Okay.
1:44:07So, I think we've
1:44:11if there's something else that I can
1:44:12that I that pops into my head while or
1:44:14when I go out to talk to them later, if
1:44:17there's something else that they want to
1:44:18ask me, I'll come back to it. What I
1:44:21want to do now is I want to go into your
1:44:23past, okay?
1:44:28and start talking about things that have
1:44:29been going on with you
1:44:32in in in relation to your life. Okay?
1:44:37You know, not I'm not going back to
1:44:39childhood. That's not my interest. Is uh
1:44:42obviously in the last few years is
1:44:44what's going on. Do you have a
1:44:46boyfriend?
1:44:48>> I had a boyfriend, but I don't have one.
1:44:51>> What What's your What's What was your
1:44:53boyfriend's name?
1:44:54>> Daniel.
1:44:54>> Daniel what?
1:44:55>> Wong.
1:44:56Tell me about your relationship with you
1:44:58and Daniel.
1:45:01>> It was a really tough one.
1:45:05Um,
1:45:07we went to high school together. He
1:45:09helped me through a really difficult
1:45:11time in high school. Um, when I have
1:45:15asthma, but it it wasn't a concern. Uh,
1:45:19it was only a concern when I was
1:45:20younger. Um but when I went over to
1:45:24Europe
1:45:25um a lot of s people were smoking
1:45:28cigarettes and it acted up over there
1:45:30and he took care of me over there.
1:45:32>> When did you go to Europe?
1:45:36>> 2003.
1:45:37>> Okay. And how long were you there for?
1:45:43>> Under two weeks I think.
1:45:45>> Okay. So this is 2003 when you and Danny
1:45:48were started dating?
1:45:50>> No. Uh later on in 2003, we were just
1:45:52friends at that point.
1:45:53>> Okay. What grade were you in at that
1:45:55point?
1:45:55>> 11.
1:45:56>> 11.
1:45:59>> So how does your relationship with Danny
1:46:01develop? Where where does it go and how
1:46:03long does it last?
1:46:05>> Lasted about 6 years.
1:46:08Um it began in the summer of 2003 before
1:46:13my grade 12 year.
1:46:15Uh we were just really good friends and
1:46:18I guess it just happened like we just
1:46:22started going out. Well saying that we
1:46:24were going out but
1:46:27um I didn't really get to see him much.
1:46:30>> Let's talk about that. Why didn't you
1:46:31get the chance to see him much?
1:46:34>> I wasn't allowed to have a boyfriend.
1:46:37>> And that was when you were 18.
1:46:40>> I was 17.
1:46:41>> 17 turning in your 18th year. in grade
1:46:4411 or going into grade?
1:46:46>> No. Going into grade 12.
1:46:47>> Okay.
1:46:48And uh so who was against you having a
1:46:51boyfriend?
1:46:52>> My father.
1:46:53>> Your father. How was your mother in
1:46:55this?
1:46:57>> She took a backseat to his opinion. Um
1:47:03she would tell me that I got to find
1:47:06someone who was devoted to me. But at
1:47:09that time she just my father was the one
1:47:12that enforced the rules. And what were
1:47:14the issues your father had with a
1:47:15boyfriend? Was it Danny in particular or
1:47:17was it just a boy?
1:47:18>> Just any boy at that point.
1:47:21>> So,
1:47:23what happens? How How are you saying
1:47:25that you're not allowed to see this?
1:47:26What What uh I know I know that there's
1:47:30certain ways that you can still get
1:47:32around your father not allowing you to
1:47:34see it when
1:47:34>> in grade 12. Uh we went to school
1:47:36together. He transferred out. Um, but
1:47:39he'd come over uh to our original high
1:47:43school and he'd come see me.
1:47:45>> Okay.
1:47:46>> And once in a while, I'd go and skip
1:47:49class and go see him.
1:47:50>> So, you were seeing you were dating him
1:47:52essentially without your parents'
1:47:54knowledge and consent.
1:47:55>> Yes.
1:47:56>> What would they have done to you if they
1:47:57found out? And did they find out?
1:48:01>> Not in high school. No.
1:48:02>> Okay. So, you finish high school and
1:48:05then what do you do when you finish high
1:48:07school?
1:48:12I was I wanted to do
1:48:15kinesiology,
1:48:17but my my father was very adamant on
1:48:20doing something in the medical field
1:48:23that was a little bit more
1:48:26um in his opinion more
1:48:31like a more successful I guess you can
1:48:34say. Um he knew I didn't have the
1:48:35stomach for being a doctor. Um, so he
1:48:38wanted me to become a pharmacist.
1:48:40>> Okay. Did you go to school for pharmacy?
1:48:43Did you get any university for pharmacy?
1:48:44No.
1:48:46>> So if you're you finish your grade 12,
1:48:48you go to your OIC year. That grade 12
1:48:52years is you finish your OIC year.
1:48:53>> I don't have O. I didn't have OIC. I
1:48:55finished my grade 12.
1:48:56>> And then where where do you what do you
1:48:59do for the next few years? While your
1:49:00dad's want you to get into the medical
1:49:02field, what do you do?
1:49:03>> I was trying to get into piano.
1:49:07What school?
1:49:08>> I I was still taking classes at a
1:49:10conserv like a a school, but it's still
1:49:13recognized in the community as a
1:49:15teacher's license
1:49:16>> through the Royal Conservatory.
1:49:17>> Yes.
1:49:18>> Okay. So,
1:49:21how is this interaction? How is this
1:49:23going with your dad? How is the how is
1:49:25your home life with the you're not now
1:49:28not living up to his expectations? You
1:49:31>> didn't know. I lied to him.
1:49:32>> What did you lie to him? What did you
1:49:33tell him? that I was going to school
1:49:37>> for
1:49:38>> uh for just premed uh not premed, sorry,
1:49:41science
1:49:42>> for science.
1:49:42>> Bachelor of Science.
1:49:45>> You would have had bills for school. How
1:49:47was how was that coming up? How are
1:49:49these bills being paid for for
1:49:50university that you weren't going to?
1:49:51>> I was working at Eastside Mario's and
1:49:55I took care of myself. So
1:49:58>> financially, my father was never
1:50:02>> he never took hand in bills. So he
1:50:06didn't know anything about pills.
1:50:07>> Did your mom know that you weren't going
1:50:08to university?
1:50:09>> No.
1:50:10>> So both your parents thought you had
1:50:12gone to university?
1:50:13>> Yes.
1:50:14>> Okay.
1:50:15And um
1:50:18how long did that how long did they
1:50:19still to this point in time think that
1:50:21you had gone to university for for
1:50:23sciences?
1:50:25>> Yes.
1:50:27And how did you feel about that? How did
1:50:30you feel about having to lie to your
1:50:32parents?
1:50:32>> I felt guilty, but every time I tried to
1:50:35bring it up,
1:50:39there was just so much
1:50:43so much expectation.
1:50:46Did you have any resentment towards him
1:50:48for this?
1:50:51>> I chose what I chose. Um, but in the
1:50:54end, I chose my family.
1:50:57Okay. So, now you're not allowed to see
1:51:00boys. How do you continue your
1:51:03relationship while you're supposed to be
1:51:04at university working at East Side
1:51:06Maros? Are you working during the day at
1:51:07Eastside Marius?
1:51:08>> Um, sometimes, but not all the time.
1:51:12>> So, how do how do you maintain this
1:51:14relationship with uh with Daniel? Um,
1:51:17I'd bus down to see him or my parents
1:51:19would drive me down to Toronto and they
1:51:23thought I was getting going to school,
1:51:26but I'd go see him and I'd come back.
1:51:28>> What school did they think you're going
1:51:29to?
1:51:29>> Ryerson.
1:51:30>> Okay. Um,
1:51:34was Daniel aware of what was going on in
1:51:36your with the issues in your life with
1:51:38your parents?
1:51:38>> Not at first, but eventually he found
1:51:41out.
1:51:42>> Okay.
1:51:43And um
1:51:46what would your parents do find out? Did
1:51:48they ever find out that you were dating
1:51:49Danny? Daniel
1:51:50>> eventually.
1:51:51>> Well, how long into the relationship was
1:51:53that?
1:51:54>> Say 5 years.
1:51:55>> 5 years. So that brings you up to 2008
1:51:58or 2009.
1:51:59>> 2008, 2007, 2008.
1:52:02>> 8.
1:52:04And how did they find out?
1:52:08My mother saw him dropping me off at a
1:52:12loca at Pacific Mall where they come to
1:52:14pick me up.
1:52:16>> And how did that go over?
1:52:20>> Not well.
1:52:21>> Explain to me what not well means.
1:52:28My mother,
1:52:30she
1:52:32said at first she was like not
1:52:35supportive, but she said, "You need to
1:52:37tell me." And she basically gave me the
1:52:42um the sex talk, which basically was one
1:52:45moment could ruin your entire life.
1:52:50Um, but once my father found out,
1:52:53without even knowing him, he
1:52:55automatically
1:52:56put judgment.
1:52:58>> What kind of judgment did your father
1:52:59pass on him?
1:53:01>> He blamed my lying and
1:53:06even
1:53:07racial
1:53:09um profiling
1:53:12on him.
1:53:12>> And what does that mean? I don't know
1:53:14about the racial profiling. Um he is
1:53:16half Filipino, half Chinese.
1:53:18>> Yes.
1:53:19>> And my father
1:53:21associated him with Filipino and said
1:53:24that you know he wasn't a good match for
1:53:27me. He wasn't going anywhere in life and
1:53:31um that
1:53:34he wouldn't be able to support a family.
1:53:39>> So tell me about about Daniel. Uh, we've
1:53:43interviewed Daniel. Okay. So, tell me
1:53:46about Daniel.
1:55:07He was, I believe, uh, selling
1:55:11>> selling
1:55:12>> selling some marijuana, I believe.
1:55:15>> Okay. You weren't aware that he was up
1:55:17to this type of business. Is that what
1:55:19you're is that what you're saying to me?
1:55:20>> Yes.
1:55:22So, um, when he is
1:55:27when your parents find out, what happens
1:55:30to you at home?
1:55:34>> They pretty much uh
1:55:38make sure that I wouldn't contact him
1:55:40again.
1:55:40>> And how do they do that?
1:55:42>> They take away my cell phone and
1:55:44restrict internet access.
1:55:48Like, they have to be in the room or not
1:55:49at all.
1:55:52Do you have a curfew?
1:55:54>> If I go out with a friend that they know
1:55:57I have to be home before 9.
1:55:59>> Before 9:00?
1:56:00>> Yes.
1:56:01>> And is that even up until
1:56:04Monday?
1:56:05Did you have a curfew up until Monday?
1:56:07>> Uh, technically, but I don't I haven't
1:56:10gone out for a while.
1:56:11>> And why is it that you haven't gone out
1:56:13for a while?
1:56:15because they gave me an ultimatum to
1:56:18either choose Daniel or to choose them
1:56:20about a year and a half ago or two about
1:56:24a year and a half ago and I chose to
1:56:27stay home with my family.
1:56:29But even though he had moved on, I we
1:56:33still wanted to be friends.
1:56:37Um we went through a lot. I was there
1:56:40for him and he was there for me when we
1:56:42needed each other. So I whenever I could
1:56:46I would sneak a phone call here, sneak a
1:56:48phone call there. Um I'd ask a friend of
1:56:50mine to pick me up and to take me to see
1:56:53him and then take me back.
1:56:56>> Who was that friend?
1:56:58>> Uh Gary
1:57:00>> Gary
1:57:01>> Gary Gibson.
1:57:01>> Gibson.
1:57:03Uh, I met Gary through Daniel and uh, he
1:57:09he picked me up and took me to see
1:57:11Daniel and he made sure I got home
1:57:13afterwards.
1:57:14>> So, tell me about uh, how come your
1:57:16parents allow you to speak to Edward or
1:57:20to Adrien? In fact, allow Adrien into
1:57:22the house.
1:57:23>> Adrien has been a friend of mine since
1:57:26uh, beginning of high school.
1:57:29Um he
1:57:32my parents agree with his
1:57:37how do I explain this? He went to school
1:57:39for engineering.
1:57:42Um he has a job and his mother was is a
1:57:48piano teacher as well like myself. So,
1:57:50in their eyes, he had like a well a
1:57:55well-rounded life.
1:57:58And because he didn't he took me out
1:58:00once, like once in a while, but not
1:58:04really. But because he he has a car of
1:58:06his own, so he comes over, therefore,
1:58:09they were able to interact with him and
1:58:12accepted him.
1:58:13>> Okay. What about Edward?
1:58:15>> Um, Edward was an old coworker of mine.
1:58:19Um, Edward only met my mom once at a gym
1:58:23at when we went to the gym. Um, I
1:58:25introduced him to my mom, but uh, he he
1:58:30only stops by when my parents are not
1:58:32home for about like an hour or so just
1:58:36to catch up. But I haven't gone out to
1:58:38actually like we talk on the phone, but
1:58:41that's pretty much I tried to meet him
1:58:44at the gym, but that's all. So for the
1:58:46last year and a half since you chose the
1:58:48ultimatum was given to you as you in
1:58:51your words it's either Daniel and or
1:58:54your family.
1:58:56>> Yes.
1:58:57>> And you say that you chose your family
1:58:58and you stayed home. What have you been
1:59:00when when you say I stayed home? What is
1:59:03your routine? Tell me for the last year
1:59:04and a half what what have you been
1:59:06doing? I have been continuing my piano
1:59:09studies and my parents um enrolled me
1:59:13back into school
1:59:15>> into college
1:59:16>> into college.
1:59:17>> At first I didn't have enough marks to
1:59:19get into the program I wanted. So I had
1:59:21to do one year of uh like refresher
1:59:24course of a calculus high school credit.
1:59:26>> And they never said to you that you can
1:59:31get in and graduate with a a science
1:59:34degree, but you can't take that. and now
1:59:37get in. They never questioned you about
1:59:38college. Now that you can't, you don't
1:59:40have the marks to get into college. How
1:59:42did you get around that?
1:59:45>> I lied to them and said that calculus
1:59:47wasn't a big thing when I first applied
1:59:51uh when science, but now calculus is
1:59:53more of a mandatory course.
1:59:56>> What um
1:59:59and when was this happening that you
2:00:01were going back to school? Uh recent uh
2:00:04I went back last summer.
2:00:07>> What's which college?
2:00:08>> I went to high school summer school
2:00:10program.
2:00:11>> Um it was at
2:00:14>> Bray
2:00:16believe it's Brave Buff.
2:00:17>> Brave Buff
2:00:17>> um on Steels in Bay View.
2:00:20>> And you graduated with that? You've you
2:00:22finished?
2:00:22>> No, I I completed the credit uh at
2:00:24upgrading my mark.
2:00:26>> And have you did you apply to college?
2:00:28>> Yes.
2:00:28>> And you were accepted?
2:00:29>> I'm accepted for January. Yes.
2:00:31>> At which college? Uh, Centennial
2:00:33College.
2:00:33>> Okay. In what program?
2:00:36>> Uh, bio biio techn biotechnology
2:00:41engineering.
2:00:42>> Okay.
2:00:44So,
2:00:47the last year and a half you've been
2:00:49doing your piano studies.
2:00:50>> Yes.
2:00:52>> What is your routine? Like daily routine
2:00:55for the last year and a half when you
2:00:56say that I chose my family. I chose to
2:00:58stay home. Well, at first I continued
2:01:02phone contact with Daniel, but uh that
2:01:06only lasted about
2:01:09um one time I like I told you, Gary came
2:01:11to pick me up to go see Daniel and I got
2:01:14caught
2:01:16and um
2:01:18that's when they took away my cell phone
2:01:22and they said that they drive me places.
2:01:25And so pretty much I wake up, I do my
2:01:28piano studies. Um I may go see my
2:01:32teacher for lessons.
2:01:34Um at first they took me, but then uh
2:01:37once my teacher was like, "Yeah, she's
2:01:39with me." Um I was able to go and see
2:01:42him at his house um once a week. Uh
2:01:46sometimes it was once every other week
2:01:47if he was busy. And then I had um
2:01:51another studies at a place called Euro
2:01:53Music for the actual pedagogy course,
2:01:56which is the actual teaching course.
2:01:58>> Mhm.
2:01:58>> And uh I went to those two classes once
2:02:01a week as well. Um and pretty much it
2:02:05was home, help out with housework and
2:02:09practice my piano and
2:02:12just wait for the college application,
2:02:14uh a college acceptance.
2:02:16>> And did you go out? Were you allowed to
2:02:18go out at night?
2:02:19I don't go out. No, the only time I went
2:02:22out was
2:02:25Last time I went out was for my
2:02:32for my one month uh my um my birthday
2:02:36and I was able week ago to go see my
2:02:40friend on the night of Halloween. My mom
2:02:42went out um to a dance uh dance thing.
2:02:46Sorry, it was Saturday night, not
2:02:47Halloween night. It was Halloween
2:02:48weekend. Saturday night, um, my friend
2:02:52Topaz and I had made plans, but my
2:02:55grandfather, we wanted to go skating
2:02:57because I love to skate. And since they
2:03:00know Topaz and they like they confirmed
2:03:04that she was in fact going with me to
2:03:06skating and they have a number to call
2:03:09her to make sure I was there um, and
2:03:12that I'd call when I got to her house.
2:03:14>> Mhm. Um, I got there and because I had
2:03:18let my friends know that my grandfather
2:03:20was ill and that I wasn't 100% sure, she
2:03:23didn't she had to talk to my friend to
2:03:26guess her child a bit. So, we just
2:03:29stayed at her house with my husband
2:03:33and I would get maybe an hour and I
2:03:39phoned the day that day.
2:03:43How long do you are you able to keep
2:03:45that from your parents attention?
2:03:48>> And how long are you how long do you
2:03:50have that phone?
2:03:53>> I've been cleaning.
2:03:55>> You've had it for 3 months?
2:03:57>> Yeah.
2:03:57>> The last 3 months?
2:03:58>> Three 2 months. And when do you switch
2:04:00from just using the phone to just
2:04:02pulling the SIM card out and using it?
2:04:04>> Just using SIM pulling a SIM card,
2:04:06texting him and then taking back
2:04:11putting it back in my jacket pocket.
2:04:13>> Okay. So, this SIM card that you say was
2:04:16in your jacket pocket, which jacket is
2:04:18it that you're talking about?
2:04:19>> Um, I have a black jacket with a furry
2:04:23hood.
2:04:24>> Yes.
2:04:24>> That I use in the fall. And the last
2:04:27time you knew about it, it was inside
2:04:29that jock jacket.
2:04:30>> Yes.
2:04:31>> And you believe you would believe
2:04:32there's no reason why it wouldn't still
2:04:33be there?
2:04:34>> Yes.
2:04:35>> Okay. And where would that jacket be
2:04:37located?
2:04:38>> Either hanging in my room or hanging uh
2:04:42behind uh by the garage the door.
2:04:46>> Mud room area. What we call the mud room
2:04:47area. The garage door. Is it a laundry
2:04:49room where there's where you come in
2:04:50from the garage?
2:04:51>> Yeah.
2:04:51>> Okay.
2:04:52>> Not a laundry room, but it's like a
2:04:54little nook.
2:04:54>> Little nook. There's no The laundry is
2:04:56downstairs.
2:04:56>> We took the laundry downstairs.
2:04:58>> Okay.
2:04:59Um
2:05:02Danny Danny and and um his activities,
2:05:07his his drugrelated activities. Did you
2:05:10ever engage or assist him in this in
2:05:12this practice?
2:05:13>> No.
2:05:14>> I told him I did not want anything to do
2:05:16with it.
2:05:19>> Um
2:05:20it's a tough question, right? Is that
2:05:23are you involved in any type of illegal
2:05:25activity
2:05:27that would draw the attention of these
2:05:29type of people to come to your house
2:05:31looking for something?
2:05:32>> I have never.
2:05:34>> What about your parents?
2:05:37>> Not to my knowledge.
2:05:38>> Well, not to your knowledge. Like are
2:05:42your parents is there any source of
2:05:44money coming into your house that is
2:05:46unaccounted for?
2:05:48>> No.
2:05:50Would it be something that your parents
2:05:51would engage in gambling or illegal or
2:05:55illegal drug activity?
2:05:56>> No.
2:05:57>> Well, not I help my mother with all the
2:05:59bills and everything and nothing. She
2:06:02never does it have like anything.
2:06:05>> How new was that basement? Like the
2:06:08setup of the basement?
2:06:11>> Graduated in 2004.
2:06:14We moved in in 2004,
2:06:18I believe. We moved in for about a year.
2:06:21So, I'd say either 2005
2:06:24or 2006.
2:06:25>> They moved. You guys moved in. They were
2:06:28renovated.
2:06:28>> Yes.
2:06:29>> And um and at that time the basement was
2:06:32completed.
2:06:33>> Yes.
2:06:33>> Were your parents working at both at
2:06:35that time?
2:06:39>> When we first moved in in 2004, my
2:06:41father was unemploy uh he had got laid
2:06:44off from Magna.
2:06:45>> Yep. My mother had transferred up to a
2:06:48place in New Market.
2:06:50Um then my father found the job at uh
2:06:53where he's he was currently working
2:06:57Coobe and Stell.
2:06:59And then I forgot the year.
2:07:04My mother got laid off
2:07:08believe in 2008
2:07:12or so. and she's been looking for a job
2:07:15and been at home
2:07:17>> now.
2:07:19Um,
2:07:25after talking to Daniel and when's the
2:07:27last time you you you text me or
2:07:30communicated with him?
2:07:31>> Was when my grandfather was ill.
2:07:34Have you have you been experiencing
2:07:37anything what you would call in the last
2:07:39little while of any type of threats or
2:07:42threatening behavior?
2:07:44>> Yes.
2:07:45>> Tell me about that.
2:07:46>> Um his I don't Well, he says it's just a
2:07:51friend, but everyone says it's his
2:07:53girlfriend. Um, she has messaged me
2:07:57telling me to back off, to leave Daniel
2:08:00alone.
2:08:02And he's messaged me and he's like, "Is
2:08:05that you calling?" But I wasn't calling
2:08:07or I'd be on the phone with him. He's
2:08:08like, "Your other my Rogers line?" Cuz I
2:08:11called him on the the phone that he gave
2:08:14me.
2:08:14>> Yes.
2:08:15>> And he'd say that my Rogers line was
2:08:17calling him. And when I looked into it,
2:08:20it was like on the on my bills. those
2:08:23phone calls were made, but I know I
2:08:26didn't make them.
2:08:28So, I I couldn't explain it.
2:08:32And I did get a letter in the mail
2:08:35saying that uh you're a dead person
2:08:37walking.
2:08:40>> Now, why didn't you tell me about that
2:08:43last when I spoke to you the other day?
2:08:47>> I Everything had just happened. I wasn't
2:08:51Was
2:08:53it just simply a letter?
2:08:55>> Yes, it was uh cut out.
2:08:58>> Where is that letter?
2:09:00>> It's garbage.
2:09:02>> It's in the garbage.
2:09:03>> Yes.
2:09:06>> I didn't think too much of it at that
2:09:08time.
2:09:09>> And what did you equate it to?
2:09:12>> Just jealousy.
2:09:15>> You still are equating it to the the
2:09:17friend or the girlfriend? Well, I don't
2:09:19want to like I don't know 100%. So, I
2:09:22don't want to point fingers.
2:09:24>> Why? So, if you're not 100% and you
2:09:27don't want to point fingers, why do you
2:09:29believe it's her?
2:09:30>> Because she has personally messaged me
2:09:32on Facebook telling me that I'm stupid
2:09:35and to back off and to leave Daniel
2:09:37alone.
2:09:40>> Okay. And sometimes when I text him, um,
2:09:44she texts me using his phone telling me
2:09:47that he's with his girlfriend Christine
2:09:50and to leave him alone.
2:09:54>> The um,
2:09:58>> is there something that happened to you
2:10:00that you never disclosed to the police
2:10:01before?
2:10:03>> Um,
2:10:06that is something I lied to him about.
2:10:09Okay, tell me about that.
2:10:11>> Um, I told him I was raped, but I was
2:10:16just very depressed. And
2:10:20sorry, this is very embarrassing.
2:10:21>> Don't Don't you haven't reported it to
2:10:23the police, right? This is a this is an
2:10:25interaction between you and an
2:10:26ex-boyfriend. Okay. So, you're you're
2:10:28not in any trouble for this, and it's
2:10:30important that we clear it up because
2:10:32he's telling us stuff.
2:10:33>> Yeah.
2:10:33>> And then we're we're coming back to you.
2:10:35So,
2:10:35>> but this is something I lied to him
2:10:37about. Okay.
2:10:38>> Um,
2:10:39>> and why did And you say you were
2:10:40depressed and and when did this happen?
2:10:42When did this what did you tell them
2:10:43about this?
2:10:46>> Maybe a year ago.
2:10:47>> A year ago. And what was it that you
2:10:49told them?
2:10:51>> That um someone came to the door and
2:10:55when I went to open the door, uh, they
2:10:57pushed me down and raped me.
2:11:00>> Did they Did you give descriptions? Did
2:11:02you provide descriptions to him about
2:11:03it? To him about it?
2:11:07I might have. I I don't remember exactly
2:11:10what I said.
2:11:12>> Okay.
2:11:12>> Um
2:11:13>> but you're telling me to my face that
2:11:16this never happened.
2:11:17>> This never happened.
2:11:18>> Okay. So it's not this isn't something
2:11:21that we need to be looking at as
2:11:23something that's tied to this.
2:11:24>> No, this is that was my lie to him.
2:11:27>> Okay.
2:11:28>> Your attention isn't.
2:11:30>> Now, did he what did what was his
2:11:33reaction to that?
2:11:35report it,
2:11:38but it wasn't real, so I didn't report
2:11:40it.
2:11:42>> Okay. Now, um
2:11:48would did D did you ever would did you
2:11:50ever have figure if Danny if Daniel
2:11:52stopped being a drug dealer or engaged
2:11:55or is he still dealing with that? Again,
2:11:56this is not criminal. It's more in lines
2:11:59of, you know, what would link someone to
2:12:02think that they're coming to your house
2:12:04for a large quantity for money,
2:12:06>> which is an obvious question.
2:12:08>> I don't
2:12:10I've asked him what he's up to and he
2:12:12just says running like doing runs,
2:12:15>> but I don't ask him into detail.
2:12:17>> So, when he says he's doing runs, you're
2:12:19equating that to he's running still
2:12:21running drugs,
2:12:22>> running errands, running drugs, seeing
2:12:24people. I
2:12:26>> You just didn't ask him. I just kind of
2:12:28went blind ear because I'm not with him.
2:12:30>> Okay. Did you ever receive um again
2:12:33coming from we're gonna ask it. Did you
2:12:35ever receive any other type of
2:12:37threatening text messages that you know
2:12:41more than just words of what a person
2:12:43says uh you know don't see him or don't
2:12:45did you ever read receive anything that
2:12:47was
2:12:48>> threatening? Yeah,
2:12:50>> I did get um some, but
2:12:55I couldn't uh what's the word I'm
2:12:57looking for? It said that we have people
2:13:00that can erase this message. Um
2:13:04but it was just words. It was just stay
2:13:07away.
2:13:08>> What were the words? Just stay away.
2:13:10>> Stay away. Chris Chrissy and Danico. One
2:13:13one
2:13:15life, one destiny or something like
2:13:17that.
2:13:19So it was more in line with Danny and
2:13:21this more in line with the relationship
2:13:23>> pretty much just leave like for me to
2:13:24stay away.
2:13:25>> There was never any threat to the threat
2:13:28to you from any other anonymous read. It
2:13:31always seems to you to have the heir of
2:13:35Dy's girlfriend or friend that's sending
2:13:37these threats
2:13:38>> just he says that it's not her but from
2:13:43the all the messages are pretty much
2:13:44just to leave him alone so he can be
2:13:46happy. Okay. But there's no uh there's
2:13:50no phone number that these things are
2:13:52coming back from.
2:13:53>> No.
2:13:53>> Being sent from?
2:13:54>> No.
2:13:56>> Um did you
2:13:57>> I know it's absurd, but I couldn't
2:13:59explain it.
2:14:00>> No. Well, I don't I with the technology
2:14:04today, anything is possible. I'm I'm not
2:14:07I'm not I'd never be able to to look you
2:14:09in the face and say that's not possible
2:14:11because
2:14:13what kids can do with computers and do
2:14:15with technology I you know anything in
2:14:17my opinion is now possible.
2:14:18>> But it was just words. It was never
2:14:22more than that.
2:14:23>> Anything to the effect of seeing bang
2:14:25bang bang
2:14:27>> to me?
2:14:28>> Yes.
2:14:28>> No.
2:14:29>> Are you aware of someone else getting a
2:14:31message like that? Daniel said that he
2:14:32got messages saying fun fun fun bang
2:14:35bang bang.
2:14:37>> And what did he ever equate that to?
2:14:40>> Did he tell you?
2:14:42>> He just said these messages basically
2:14:44kept telling him to make sure I stay
2:14:46away from him and to make uh that girl
2:14:49happy.
2:14:50>> Okay.
2:14:50>> And that they knew what he was up to.
2:14:54They even said that they knew like
2:14:58what our like I'd text him something and
2:15:01for some reason they knew that I texted
2:15:03him and that they knew that I called
2:15:05him, stuff like that.
2:15:07>> Do you have um
2:15:11have you ever received other than that
2:15:14letter?
2:15:15>> That other thing I also made up the
2:15:18bullet in the mail that I made that up.
2:15:20>> And how long ago was that?
2:15:23just a few months ago.
2:15:25>> Okay. And was that an attention grabber
2:15:26for him again?
2:15:28>> Yes.
2:15:28>> You still have feelings for Daniel,
2:15:30don't you?
2:15:31>> Yes.
2:15:32>> Okay. So, you're having trouble with
2:15:33that. You're having trouble getting over
2:15:35the fact that the relationship is over
2:15:37>> because of the terms of how it happened.
2:15:39>> I've accepted that that it's over, but I
2:15:42still want to take care of him.
2:15:45>> Yeah.
2:15:46>> But unfortunately, I made a decision and
2:15:48I need I had to stick by it. Your
2:15:50relationship with Daniel was broken up
2:15:52because of your parents ultimatum, not
2:15:54because you didn't care for him anymore.
2:15:56>> Yes,
2:15:57>> that's that's an obvious what you can
2:15:59say, right? Because you still have
2:16:01feelings and you're still trying to
2:16:02trigger them with the bullet.
2:16:04>> You know, even just that that are these
2:16:06tech text messages you're receiving, are
2:16:08they fictitious? Are you making that up?
2:16:10>> No.
2:16:12>> 100%.
2:16:13>> Yes.
2:16:13>> Okay. Now, the letter you received, is
2:16:17it fictitious or did he make it up or or
2:16:20sorry, is it fictitious or is it real?
2:16:21>> It's real.
2:16:22>> It's real.
2:16:23>> And how? Sorry.
2:16:25>> No, it just happened like before most of
2:16:27the stuff happened. So, I just brushed
2:16:29it aside.
2:16:31>> Okay. So, it happened before what? Most
2:16:32of what stuff happened?
2:16:34>> Most of like before I knew about her and
2:16:37before I knew like before she messaged
2:16:39me ever.
2:16:40>> Okay. Now,
2:16:44how often did you use this other phone?
2:16:46Like you said, you said it was back when
2:16:48your father, that's the last time you
2:16:49used it. But how many times would you,
2:16:51you know, like from the last year?
2:16:53>> I think once a day.
2:16:55>> Once a day
2:16:55>> or usually
2:16:57um Yeah, once a day.
2:17:00>> Who was paying for that?
2:17:01>> Daniel.
2:17:02>> Daniel was paying for that.
2:17:08Um,
2:17:09so the the uh incident those two
2:17:11incidents that you made up, the bullet
2:17:13and the and the the being rigged, those
2:17:15never happened.
2:17:16>> No.
2:17:20>> Is there anything else you can think of
2:17:22in this? Were you dating anyone else? Do
2:17:25you see anyone else during this during
2:17:27during this year and a half?
2:17:29>> No.
2:17:29>> Layoff?
2:17:30>> Uh, dating? No.
2:17:31>> No.
2:17:31>> No. I just I saw Adrian because he came
2:17:35he came over but I wasn't seeing him
2:17:37like romantically or anything. Um I saw
2:17:43just my uh tightknit group of friends
2:17:46which are uh my girlfriends Topaz.
2:17:49>> Topaz.
2:17:50>> Yes.
2:17:50>> Topaz last name
2:17:51>> Chu.
2:17:52>> Topaz Chu.
2:17:53>> Uh her husband Chihei Tong.
2:17:55>> And where? Okay. We won't say where they
2:17:57live because it's being videoed but I
2:17:58need to get an idea. If we haven't
2:18:00spoken to them, we'd like to speak to
2:18:01them. Okay.
2:18:02>> Who else?
2:18:03>> Um,
2:18:05Adrien Chong. He lives in uh he lives
2:18:08away, but sometimes he comes into town
2:18:11and he'll come to my house and ask my
2:18:13parents to take me out just for a coffee
2:18:15to catch up about half hour and then he
2:18:16takes me back home.
2:18:18>> Okay, that's that's three. Who else is
2:18:20tight? Adrien um
2:18:22>> Adrien whom we talked about earlier.
2:18:25Timovich
2:18:25>> Thinkitz you've spoken to we've spoken
2:18:27to already. Edward uh
2:18:29>> Pacific.
2:18:30>> And so he's in that loop of tight-knit
2:18:33friends.
2:18:33>> Uh no, he's uh separate.
2:18:35>> Okay. Who else is in this other
2:18:37tight-knit group of friends?
2:18:38>> Um well, we're it tight, but I don't
2:18:41speak to them often. Um Cecilia Pang and
2:18:45uh Jerome. We fall in and out like
2:18:47periodically like maybe couple months
2:18:49where we talk almost every week and then
2:18:52sometimes we go month or two without
2:18:54talking. Drum Leu.
2:18:56>> Okay. Um, so that's Adrien, Adrien,
2:19:00Topaz, Chihei,
2:19:04Cecilia,
2:19:06myself, and
2:19:08um there's one more uh Carson. Uh
2:19:14I forgot his last name.
2:19:18He's more like a f he him and myself
2:19:20aren't that close but he does hang
2:19:23around all of us if we go to um for
2:19:26example when my friend had a baby we
2:19:29were all there together
2:19:30>> now what about again apologize for the
2:19:33name Gary Gibson Gibbons or
2:19:35>> Gibson Gibson Gibson yes
2:19:37>> um where is he in this
2:19:39>> I haven't t spoken to him in a long time
2:19:42I'd say about a year but prior to that
2:19:45uh we spoke quite a bit Um,
2:19:48>> yeah.
2:19:48>> But he was your link to Danny, right? To
2:19:50get to Danny to drop you off.
2:19:51>> Well, he he spoke to he'd call Daniel if
2:19:54I like if he didn't answer my calls. And
2:19:57um we hung out on our own as well.
2:19:59>> What do you know about Daniel's
2:20:01girlfriend, Christine?
2:20:03>> Um the only thing I know is that she's
2:20:05living with her father. Um when we were
2:20:09in high school, uh she lost her mother.
2:20:12Um, I believe she has a child and I
2:20:16don't know where the father is in that.
2:20:18>> Okay.
2:20:19>> Um, Daniel's told me that this is just
2:20:22what Daniel has told me that uh she's
2:20:24going through a custody battle
2:20:27and uh that every time I ask him like
2:20:30are you what are you doing? He's like
2:20:32making runs with Christine.
2:20:34>> So
2:20:35>> making runs with Christine.
2:20:37>> Yes. And I'm sorry when you say what
2:20:41runs would you know for me listening to
2:20:43making a run are you making would you
2:20:45draw the inference that that's back to
2:20:47the drug business?
2:20:48>> I would but I kind of I didn't go more
2:20:52into that.
2:20:53>> Don't go more into it. What do you what
2:20:54do you take that as as just hearing it
2:20:57at face value
2:20:57>> that he was going to meet somebody for
2:21:00drugs or
2:21:00>> and Christine's along for the ride? I
2:21:04was told like in his words that he was
2:21:06the one taking her to go see people that
2:21:09she knew
2:21:11>> that she knew.
2:21:12>> Yes.
2:21:13>> Okay.
2:21:14>> And that everything was at her house or
2:21:16something like that.
2:21:19>> Okay.
2:21:21I want you to sit tight. Do you want to
2:21:24get you some water?
2:21:25>> Yes, please.
2:21:25>> Okay. I want you to sit tight. I'm just
2:21:27going to go talk to uh to Deborah. She's
2:21:29Deborah Glatt. She's been monitoring.
2:21:31I'm also going to talk to the primary
2:21:32investigator. Okay. Um, we're going to
2:21:35get you some water and and we're sort of
2:21:38moving through this. This is great.
2:21:39Okay. I appreciate the fact that you're
2:21:41honest with me to tell me that these
2:21:42things were made up. Okay.
2:21:45>> It's very important.
2:21:45>> I can't lie, right? And
2:21:48>> you can't because it it Well, if you're
2:21:50if you were raped and you received
2:21:51bullets, those are some pretty
2:21:53significant threats, right?
2:21:55>> I understand.
2:21:55>> Okay.
2:21:56>> Um, there was also one other thing.
2:21:59Yeah.
2:22:00>> Um we were getting private phone calls
2:22:03um at my house as well. I didn't never
2:22:06told my brother cuz he was at school.
2:22:08>> Yeah.
2:22:09>> Um when we picked up they'd always hang
2:22:12up. And one time
2:22:16my father had picked up and like I said,
2:22:20Mondays my mother would go dancing.
2:22:22>> Yes. And when this one time I picked up
2:22:27the phone, but my father was already on
2:22:28the phone and there was this woman on
2:22:30the other line and I don't know who it
2:22:32was and and they were speaking Chinese
2:22:35which is a little bit off for me because
2:22:39my father's Chinese isn't isn't his
2:22:42first language.
2:22:42>> Okay.
2:22:44>> And uh my father doesn't even know I was
2:22:46on the line. Um but this woman was
2:22:48saying, "You have to come over right
2:22:50away. Right away. you have to come now.
2:22:53And my father kept saying, I can't come
2:22:55over. No. And she's like, I don't care.
2:22:58You have to come now.
2:23:01Um, like I said, he still does to this
2:23:03day doesn't know that I heard that
2:23:04conversation. And
2:23:07um he when he went
2:23:11uh down the stairs to see me, cuz I was
2:23:12in the main on the main floor, he was
2:23:14upstairs when he answered the phone. He
2:23:17was like, "I'm going to go." And uh my
2:23:19cousin Michelle
2:23:21um she said, "I'm going to go to
2:23:23Michelle's house to I believe their tap
2:23:25was running or he had to he's a handyman
2:23:28for the house work." So, uh they asked
2:23:30him to fix it, but I believe I don't
2:23:33remember where they were. They were out
2:23:35and I remember cuz I was uh I believe
2:23:37this is during the summer
2:23:39>> of this past year, 2010.
2:23:41>> Yes. Like summer of 2010. And uh me and
2:23:45Michelle we went to we go to the gym
2:23:46together. So uh she had mentioned that
2:23:49day that she had
2:23:53I'm sorry I I don't remember what but
2:23:55she had an errand to run with her mother
2:23:56and I was like I think it was a doctor's
2:23:58appointment or something and I told my
2:24:00dad that I believe they're out they're
2:24:01not home and he's like I'm going to go.
2:24:04So he left and when he left um I had
2:24:08called my my aunt had I believe my aunt
2:24:11had called me back or I had called her
2:24:12somehow we connected with each other and
2:24:15they said that he uh they were not home
2:24:16yet but they're on their way they would
2:24:17be there in about half hour
2:24:20but that my father never came home and
2:24:24my father says he was driving around
2:24:26their block
2:24:27waiting for them but when I confronted
2:24:30him I said uh I thought they were they
2:24:32said that they weren't home and he's
2:24:34like I driving around the block. But
2:24:36when I had I didn't know how to process
2:24:38this. And so I confided in Michelle when
2:24:40we're at the gym. And she said that when
2:24:44she came home, she did drive uh cuz they
2:24:48have um her garage is in the back of her
2:24:50house.
2:24:51>> Mhm.
2:24:51>> So there's like a street way that's just
2:24:53garages. And when my father goes over,
2:24:56he likes to use the back door and knocks
2:24:58on the door in the back door cuz it's
2:24:59convenient cuz everyone's in the back of
2:25:01the house usually with the kitchen. Um,
2:25:04so she said that she ran like she drove
2:25:06in two circles before like she drove
2:25:08around to check before uh she went in,
2:25:11but my father was never there.
2:25:13>> Does Does Michelle speak Chinese?
2:25:15>> Yes.
2:25:17>> Um, yes. Yes, she does.
2:25:19>> This is your aunt. This is your cousin
2:25:21is Michelle?
2:25:21>> Yes, my cousin Michelle. Yes.
2:25:22>> And your aunt's name is
2:25:24>> uh Hua Hua.
2:25:28>> And so did was your father ever at that
2:25:31house? Eventually, she said that he did
2:25:33come over and he helped them out and
2:25:36came back home.
2:25:37>> But when you listened on the phone line,
2:25:39did you recognize the female as being
2:25:40Michelle or or
2:25:42>> It was not It was not her and her
2:25:43mother. I know that, but it was a voice
2:25:45I've never heard before. A lady's voice
2:25:48that I've never heard before. And um
2:25:51like I said, these phone calls were
2:25:52happening periodically, but every time
2:25:54we answered, they they'd hang up on us.
2:25:56>> Meaning you or your mom?
2:25:57>> Yes. Cuz my mother and I had voiced it.
2:26:00and my my we we we voiced it and uh a
2:26:04few days later I was home by myself and
2:26:08I got a private call and I didn't hear
2:26:10them click like hang up clicking so I
2:26:14yelled in Chinese do not call this
2:26:16number ever again and they called
2:26:19probably once after that and never
2:26:20returned like the private call stopped
2:26:23>> and so when did this stop when did this
2:26:25happen and when you said the summer is
2:26:27when
2:26:27>> by the end of the summer
2:26:28>> end of summer so August, September,
2:26:31>> like late August, early September.
2:26:33>> It is the to the house line.
2:26:36>> Yes.
2:26:36>> And what's the house line phone number?
2:26:38>> 9054773867.
2:26:42>> Okay.
2:26:44Okay. Sit tight. Is there any other any
2:26:47other incidents that jog your memory?
2:26:54>> Any other boyfriends in between this
2:26:56time period?
2:26:56>> No.
2:26:59Okay, sit tight. Let me get you some
2:27:01water and let me ask some questions.
2:27:02Okay, if you want to stand up and walk
2:27:03around, I understand it's not we're not
2:27:05telling you to sit tight, literally, but
2:27:07it may be a couple of minutes. Okay.
2:27:09>> Um Okay.
2:27:10>> What do you need to go to the washroom?
2:27:11>> No, I just I don't like being by myself
2:27:13right now.
2:27:14>> I'm going to leave the door open a
2:27:15little bit. Okay.
2:27:16>> Does that Does that work for you?
2:27:17>> Okay.
2:27:18>> And remember,
2:27:19>> right through that glass, you can
2:27:20actually I don't know see her, but
2:27:21that's where she's sitting. So, you're
2:27:23actually you're you're just she's just
2:27:24in another room, but she's a part of
2:27:26this room.
2:27:26>> Okay.
2:27:27>> Okay.
2:29:54It's just me.
2:29:58Feeling
2:30:01okay still?
2:30:04Everything's going okay. All right. Do
2:30:08you need to do you need a bathroom
2:30:09break?
2:30:10>> Yes, please.
2:30:11>> Okay. Let me just clear the hallway and
2:30:13then I'll escort you out. Okay.
2:30:40Okay.
2:33:15want to go back in. You going to just
2:33:16stand around here? Do you want to just
2:33:18wait out here or do you want to just
2:33:19wait inside? But you could just stand
2:33:21up. It's up to you. I'm just uh
2:33:25>> Okay, we'll just wait by the door then.
2:33:26That's fine. You could
2:33:28or not.
2:33:30>> I'm just going to rattle.
2:33:32>> Okay. You You're doing fine. I'm just
2:33:34trying my best. You're doing good.
2:33:36You're doing good.
2:33:46Are you hungry?
2:33:48>> No.
2:33:49>> No.
2:33:54the uh choices I've made and having in
2:33:56bed and what it's just
2:34:00you know what
2:34:03it's just part of life.
2:34:06I mean it's it's you know I mean we have
2:34:08we learn and you know we make mistakes
2:34:12when we make mistakes and
2:34:20be honest it's just
2:34:39just
2:34:46okay
2:34:53then some of those things
2:34:55>> instead of just saying some of those
2:34:56things like my parents don't know yet so
2:34:59it's just
2:35:00>> I know you're like can't worry about
2:35:05you know, you can't focus on that. I
2:35:07mean, you did what you had to do, right?
2:35:09And and it was something that you felt
2:35:10that you needed to do at the time.
2:35:32Let's just hang in here just for a
2:35:34little bit until that way is I won't
2:35:36close the door too much. Okay.
2:35:47Yeah.
2:36:07What
2:36:25do you think?
2:36:42Okay.
2:37:38Sweet. You're okay.
2:37:50I'm just going over everything with like
2:37:52pieces and
2:37:56I'm just I'm just going through
2:37:58everything and I just
2:38:02like pieces here and pieces there and I
2:38:05don't I don't want to say something
2:38:09wrong or like just cuz I think I'm
2:38:12overthinking everything and it's just
2:38:13like
2:38:15Well, I don't think you can.
2:38:20I mean, the truth is the truth, right?
2:38:21It's not, you know, and it's not going
2:38:22to be wrong.
2:38:24>> No.
2:38:24>> Okay. It's It is It is what it is. And
2:38:28um
2:38:29>> No, just like with the details and
2:38:31everything. It just
2:38:33>> I want to get it right. So, like
2:38:35everything could be
2:38:38everything could be right. Okay.
2:38:40>> But it's just like it's pieces and
2:38:43Yeah, but I mean then you know you know
2:38:45all the pieces are going to they're not
2:38:47they're all going to that come together
2:38:48and you're it's it's all going to fit
2:38:51right because what you're going to be
2:38:53what you're saying is the truth. I'm
2:38:56just trying to like every time I think
2:38:58of those things it just it gets me all
2:39:00worked up but I have to think about it
2:39:03but I don't I don't want to
2:39:06as in like it just
2:39:09it brings back all everything. Okay. And
2:39:13that's going to happen for a little bit
2:39:14though, too. You realize that, right?
2:39:16>> I know that's going to happen.
2:39:17>> It's just it's it's a lot.
2:39:19>> Yeah. Yeah.
2:39:21>> And it's just like, I did it. I don't
2:39:22want to do it again.
2:39:24>> Yeah. I mean, even when you least expect
2:39:27it, even you know, it's it's going to
2:39:29happen.
2:39:32And now it's just like he's asking me
2:39:35these questions like I should have I
2:39:37should have
2:39:40I don't know. It's like maybe I should
2:39:41have been more like attentive. Like it
2:39:45just happened so fast
2:39:47>> and it's like he's asking me like the
2:39:48shoes and everything and
2:39:50>> Yeah.
2:39:51>> I can't give him the answer cuz I don't
2:39:52know.
2:39:52>> Well, and and that's right. You're
2:39:54right. And we don't expect you to, you
2:39:57know, you don't want to make up
2:39:58something.
2:39:59>> No, I'm not that easy.
2:40:00>> You know, you want
2:40:01>> I wish I was able to answer like I want
2:40:04to be able to answer it. So, it'd be not
2:40:07easier, but it's it help.
2:40:09>> Yeah. But if you don't know, you don't
2:40:11know.
2:40:14Really, that's that's the bottom line.
2:40:16If you don't know, you don't know.
2:40:18>> I don't know.
2:40:18>> Who are we to say? Because we weren't
2:40:20there. You you're the one that's going
2:40:22through this. We're not there. So,
2:40:26and like Randy was saying, what you
2:40:28remember back then, you know, you've had
2:40:30a couple of days and, you know, things
2:40:32start to come back in your mind. It, you
2:40:35know, it's it happens. So, don't be too
2:40:38hung up on, oh, I didn't remember. Oh, I
2:40:42should have remembered. Oh, why couldn't
2:40:44I remember? Don't. Cuz it makes me feel
2:40:46like I should have.
2:40:48>> No.
2:41:02Want to say I'm still like beating
2:41:03myself up like I should have. No, don't
2:41:06do that. You don't like, you know,
2:41:08there's no apologies needed. There's no
2:41:11there's none of that. There's none of
2:41:13that, Jen. You don't need to to be
2:41:15beating yourself up over this.
2:41:18Okay,
2:41:25this is some heavy duty stuff. I mean,
2:41:28this is you've been through you've been
2:41:30through something that you know is very
2:41:32traumatic.
2:41:37Did you get a hold of Julia?
2:41:39>> No, I haven't. Still haven't heard yet.
2:41:42Haven't heard yet.
2:41:47And I kind of want to be here. If you
2:41:49need me right on the uh right on the go.
2:41:52So, but you know what? Once once I'm
2:41:55able to to touch base with her again,
2:41:57I'll do I'll do that. And I know that
2:41:59she'll get in touch with you.
2:43:02I'm trying. Is there anything to help
2:43:04like
2:44:02Just pause this way.
2:44:26Is there anything else you can
2:44:29You know what? You've No, I I'm
2:44:43just it's just like going over again.
2:44:45>> It's okay. It'll just wait till Randy
2:44:48comes back and you know what? If he has
2:44:50some other questions for you, he'll
2:44:51he'll ask them.
2:46:00Mhm.
2:46:22Yeah.
2:47:30Oh, was that your breast? Is that your
2:47:32chest that you're doing that against
2:47:37a thing you do?
2:47:40It's embarrassing.
2:47:44When I when I lose control, I the only
2:47:47thing I feel I can control is
2:47:51what I feel. Okay. No, I just I just
2:47:54heard the sound. That's what it was
2:47:55like. It was the sound that drew my
2:47:57attention. So,
2:51:06Everything we said here today was
2:51:07confidential with here, right?
2:51:09>> Sorry.
2:51:10>> Everything I said here today was just
2:51:11confidential to hear, right?
2:51:13>> Just confidential to hear. like it. I
2:51:15don't
2:51:19>> Everybody knows that
2:51:22everyone perceives
2:51:30>> I don't want to disappoint my mother.
2:51:34>> Like I don't want to
2:51:37like I said I haven't told her like they
2:51:40don't know about that university stuff.
2:51:43>> Mhm.
2:51:45And I don't want
2:51:48people who saw my mother as a good
2:51:50person to think
2:51:52vomiting of her.
2:51:55Okay. Well, what you're saying in here
2:51:58is not going to go anywhere
2:52:03because everyone says she's such a good
2:52:05mom.
2:52:06>> Yeah.
2:52:06>> And I don't want that to change. Okay.
2:52:09>> Because of my decisions and my actions.
2:52:15what you're saying in here is is within
2:52:20the confines of this police station and
2:52:23and our investigation. So, it's not, you
2:52:26know, that's not something that we would
2:52:30release out to the public.
2:52:32>> Okay.
2:52:37>> Did you hear from the corner's office?
2:52:40>> I didn't know. So, if there's another
2:52:42officer that did, another detective that
2:52:44um did, I can I haven't spoken to him
2:52:47yet.
2:52:55>> Have they been able to find out anything
2:52:58in that? I don't know, Ch. I don't I
2:53:00don't know. Um when Randy comes back in
2:53:03here,
2:53:05you can ask them all. You can ask her
2:53:07those questions. and as well he's not
2:53:09the lead investigator on this. He we
2:53:12there is a different individual that's
2:53:14the lead investigator. So if you've got
2:53:17some questions I'll certainly
2:53:21try to answer them and and then we can
2:53:24take it from there
2:53:28but I don't want to give you information
2:53:30that is not correct. So I just want you
2:53:33know if there's something specific that
2:53:34you want to know.
2:53:37No, like do they have any
2:53:40like leads or suspects or did anyone
2:53:42save where the car went after or
2:53:45>> and that that I don't know. So that
2:53:46would be something that you know what
2:53:48I'd have to find out for you
2:53:52>> cuz like is there any
2:53:55anything that
2:53:56>> Yeah, I know. I know you have a lot of a
2:53:58lot of questions. You have a lot of
2:54:00questions and and I can't I don't know
2:54:03the answers for you. just feels like I'm
2:54:06answering questions, but
2:54:08>> you're not giving a lot. You're not
2:54:09getting a lot of answers right now.
2:54:13>> Yeah.
2:54:41I don't like this part,
2:54:43>> the waiting.
2:54:49So, I can understand. I don't like it.
2:54:51Arthur,
2:54:52>> like if he's here, he can ask me. I can
2:54:55give him anything I can think of. But
2:54:58>> I know.
2:56:04You're good.
2:56:05>> I'm good. Fine. Thanks, Steph.
2:57:24standing a little late.
2:57:25>> Are you Do you want something to eat?
2:57:27I'm starving. I don't know about you. I
2:57:29don't know how you can go without.
2:57:32I can get you something to eat.
2:57:35>> Even if it's a bagel,
2:57:38>> okay,
2:57:39>> but you're feeling a little lightheaded.
2:57:40Do you want some chips or something like
2:57:42that? Do you need some junk food?
2:57:47You sure?
2:57:50What can I get you?
2:57:53If you could eat something right now,
2:57:54what would it be?
2:57:56>> I'm hungry.
2:57:58Yeah, but you're lightheaded.
2:58:04Maybe you should sit down a little bit,
2:58:06too. Okay, you've been doing a lot of
2:58:08pacing. Maybe you need to just sit down
2:58:10for a bit.
2:58:14If you need something with some sugar in
2:58:15it just to give you some energy.
2:58:18>> Okay.
2:58:19>> I heard your stomach.
2:58:22Yeah,
2:58:22>> you heard it, but it's just
2:58:24>> Yeah, it's your stomach saying you're
2:58:26hungry.
2:58:28Do you want a candy bar?
2:58:30>> Okay.
2:58:30>> Okay.
2:59:48You need some my water.
2:59:50>> Sorry. More water.
2:59:51>> I'm okay.
2:59:52>> Okay.
3:03:30Are you okay?
3:04:36I Jennifer.
3:04:38Hey,
3:04:42here. Take some Kleenex.
3:04:45Take some Kleenex.
3:04:48Tell me what you're feeling right now.
3:04:49What's going on?
3:04:57>> You might as well get used to this. You
3:04:58got to get it out. So, tell me what
3:05:00you're feeling right now.
3:05:05I'm just got to like if it makes me feel
3:05:09like I should have
3:05:13a thing called survivor's guilt, okay,
3:05:16that you're going to go through that
3:05:18you're going to you're going to need and
3:05:19this is like the stuff about the therapy
3:05:22and and getting to speak to someone
3:05:24because there's stages of grieving that
3:05:25you're going to go through, okay? And
3:05:28this is the only way you're going to go
3:05:30through this is with properly is with
3:05:32help. And I think victim services is
3:05:34engaged, right? They're they're trying
3:05:35to help you. So just stick with them.
3:05:38Okay? It's a long road, but it's it can
3:05:40be a very successful road. Okay? And and
3:05:43what you're feeling, I hate to say, is
3:05:45normal,
3:05:47but it is it's something that a lot of
3:05:49people who are in the same circumstance
3:05:51will feel. Okay? But I what I want to do
3:05:55is I want to finish off on this so that
3:05:56we can let you go and get and and go get
3:05:59out of the police station, okay? Cuz I
3:06:02appreciate your time and I appreciate
3:06:03your help.
3:06:05So what is in the safe?
3:06:10I'm
3:06:14the last time.
3:06:18I I opened it. My mom took out our
3:06:19passports and I
3:06:23I She's the She has the combination. I
3:06:26don't have the combination.
3:06:27>> You don't have the combination for the
3:06:28safe? Just your mom?
3:06:30>> Just my mom.
3:06:30>> Okay. And so there was passports. No
3:06:33large quantities of cash in there?
3:06:40>> Not that I not that I know of because uh
3:06:43she asked me to
3:06:46>> help pay for our two trips.
3:06:48>> Okay.
3:06:49>> Recently went on.
3:06:51>> And what did you get the what did you
3:06:52have the $2,000 for? What did you Where
3:06:54did you make that money?
3:06:56I had
3:07:00I was saving up to get a new cell phone.
3:07:03>> Do you have a Blackberry?
3:07:05>> I gave it to Daniel.
3:07:07>> Okay.
3:07:07>> My brother gave it to me from his
3:07:09friend.
3:07:09>> But you have So the Blackberry, is it in
3:07:11your name that you've given to Daniel?
3:07:13So is Dan It was yours and you've given
3:07:15it to Daniel? My brother's friend
3:07:17didn't. It was an old Blackberry and my
3:07:19brother's friend gave it to him and I
3:07:24gave it I gave it to Daniel.
3:07:25>> When did you give it to Daniel?
3:07:30>> Um,
3:07:33I gave it to a friend to give to Daniel.
3:07:35>> How long ago?
3:07:38>> Couple
3:07:39maybe a week.
3:07:41>> A week ago.
3:07:41>> A week. Maybe a week and a day. What's
3:07:44the PIN command for that? Do you know?
3:07:46Do you have a personal identification
3:07:48number for security reasons? Have you
3:07:49ever been given that by by Blackberry?
3:07:52>> No.
3:07:52>> No,
3:07:53>> there's there's no lock that I know.
3:07:55>> Okay. So, um
3:08:00Daniel
3:08:02is was and likely still remains to be a
3:08:06drug dealer.
3:08:08Self admitted when he was in the air the
3:08:10other day. Now, so stepping back from
3:08:12that is I had asked you is prior to the
3:08:15incident, when's the last time you spoke
3:08:17to Daniel? What I should have said to
3:08:19you is when is the last time from today
3:08:22for back that you spoke to Daniel? When
3:08:25is the last time you met with him and
3:08:27spoke with him?
3:08:28>> I saw him here yesterday when I was
3:08:29leaving.
3:08:30>> Did you talk to him?
3:08:32>> Just briefly.
3:08:34>> You didn't see him or talk to him any
3:08:36other times other than right here in the
3:08:38police station?
3:08:42And if I told you that Daniel says that
3:08:44you spoke to him,
3:08:46you did have a conversation with him
3:08:48somewhere else.
3:09:01He would be lying.
3:09:10The last time I spoke to him was when he
3:09:11asked for the Blackberry.
3:09:15>> And that was a week ago.
3:09:21>> Yes, cuz my grandfather had just he was
3:09:23in the hospital and I snuck over and
3:09:26dropped it off for a friend at his
3:09:29paintball place.
3:09:30>> And who is the friend that you gave it
3:09:31to?
3:09:32>> I only know his first name. Uh Hessen.
3:09:34>> Hessen. And where's the paintball place?
3:09:37>> Uh, Victoria Park and McNickel.
3:09:41>> Right at Victoria Park and McNichol.
3:09:42>> Yeah, between McNickel and Steels on
3:09:45Victoria Park
3:09:50when
3:09:53there's a lot of people, remember I told
3:09:54you about the media,
3:09:56they're bad. They can be very bad when
3:09:58they start to sniff around and they they
3:10:00sense something. And I can tell you that
3:10:03the media is portraying that this was
3:10:07supposed to be some sort of drugrelated,
3:10:09that you guys weren't a random target,
3:10:11that you were a targeted house because
3:10:13of drug activity.
3:10:18What would you say to that?
3:10:21>> I don't deal the drugs.
3:10:24>> Okay,
3:10:25tell me more about that. You don't deal
3:10:27the drugs. Are you involved in the
3:10:28transportation and dist distribution?
3:10:31No.
3:10:31>> Have you ever been with Danny? This is
3:10:33something that's very important. Have
3:10:36you ever been with Danny when Danny's
3:10:37doing that?
3:10:38>> He normally leaves me with a friend and
3:10:40says he's going out with his friend.
3:10:43>> And like normally when is that normally?
3:10:46How long?
3:10:46>> That was three, four years ago. Three or
3:10:49four years.
3:11:01>> Was he dealing with big quantities? Were
3:11:02you aware of it?
3:11:04>> Honestly, I I wanted nothing to do with
3:11:06it. So, I refused to know what he was
3:11:09doing.
3:11:10>> Okay. And the times that you've snuck
3:11:13out and spoke to him, how many times a
3:11:15month up until the last time you handed
3:11:16the the Blackberry? You'd see him once a
3:11:19week.
3:11:20>> Well, prior to this, I'd only see him
3:11:23once a month because I went away to uh
3:11:26twice with my family.
3:11:27>> Yeah.
3:11:28>> So, I wasn't able to uh go anywhere. I
3:11:30was out with them. So, this month I've
3:11:33only seen him twice this month. I mean,
3:11:36October. I saw him twice in October.
3:11:38>> And you But you text You said you text
3:11:40message him every day. Once at least
3:11:42once,
3:11:43>> more or less.
3:11:44>> Um, you know, and that could be a string
3:11:46of of text messages, right? It's not
3:11:47just, "Hey, how are you doing? Fine."
3:11:49And that's the end of the text message.
3:11:50It'd be a string of communication. How
3:11:52you were texting him.
3:11:53>> It was it just be where you at? Are you
3:11:55at work? How are you? And
3:11:59miss you or what are you doing today?
3:12:03>> And
3:12:05the So when you go out and see him for
3:12:08once during the time once once a week,
3:12:11>> I I tell my parents that I was going to
3:12:13class.
3:12:13>> Yes. And before class or after class,
3:12:16I'd go buy him lunch and bring it by his
3:12:18work. And sometimes I would see him and
3:12:21sometimes I just give it to a coworker
3:12:22to give to him.
3:12:23>> And how long when you see him, how long
3:12:25would you see him for?
3:12:27>> 10 minutes, 15 minutes cuz he was
3:12:29working.
3:12:30>> When you weren't when he wasn't working
3:12:32and you were able to get out and see
3:12:33him, how long?
3:12:34>> That hasn't happened in a long time.
3:12:36>> And how long is a long time? The last
3:12:38time I saw him outside of that was when
3:12:41Gary picked me up and I got caught by my
3:12:43parents. And that was I'd say a year if
3:12:46not a year and a half almost.
3:12:48>> And why why did he want your Blackberry?
3:12:51>> He said that he had sold his Blackberry.
3:12:54So he needed a phone.
3:12:57>> And that Blackberry
3:13:01what? Like I'm I'm kind of confused. Is
3:13:03was that an active phone?
3:13:06>> No. No,
3:13:06>> cuz now we're talking about three phones
3:13:08now. We're talk or that we got a SIM
3:13:09card. We got the phone that your parents
3:13:11know you have and you got a Blackberry
3:13:13>> up until a week ago.
3:13:15>> Yes.
3:13:16>> So,
3:13:16>> the Blackberry is what I was using with
3:13:18my own Roger SIM card. The phone I'm
3:13:20using now was an old phone that I no
3:13:23longer used.
3:13:24>> Okay. So,
3:13:25>> because the reception was no good.
3:13:26>> The Blackberry was your normal phone
3:13:28that you were using on a regular basis.
3:13:30>> Yes. And um and you would switch sim
3:13:33cards if so if you were going to
3:13:35communicate with him with the other SIM
3:13:36card, you'd put the SIM card in that
3:13:37Blackberry and talk to him through that.
3:13:39>> I had an iPhone that I kept I kept in my
3:13:42room that my parents didn't know about.
3:13:44>> Um cuz my brother I had one that Daniel
3:13:47gave me earlier, but it broke.
3:13:49>> Yeah.
3:13:49>> So my brother, what he did was he fixed
3:13:52the part so he can have one that he used
3:13:53himself. But uh the one I had wasn't
3:13:56fully functioning. It was just able It
3:13:59had no internet access on it, so I just
3:14:01kept it for phone calls and I kept it
3:14:03hidden.
3:14:04>> And where is that phone now?
3:14:05>> It should be still on my in my room.
3:14:09>> Yes. Where?
3:14:10>> Uh
3:14:13I believe it was on my laptop table or
3:14:16something or on my counter.
3:14:17>> And it doesn't have a SIM card in it
3:14:19right now?
3:14:20>> No, I don't keep a SIM card in it just
3:14:22in case my parents asked.
3:14:24>> Okay. So, there's an iPhone on by your
3:14:29desk on your desk somewhere in that in
3:14:31your room.
3:14:31>> Yes.
3:14:32>> And um the Rogers I mean the Blackberry
3:14:36that you had had up until a week and it
3:14:38went to Daniel and and for what reason
3:14:40it went to Daniel?
3:14:41>> He had a black another a newer
3:14:43Blackberry but he said someone wanted to
3:14:45buy it like a friend of his wanted to
3:14:47buy it and that he needed a phone
3:14:49temporarily. So
3:14:51>> So he took your phone.
3:14:52>> So I I had another phone as well. So, I
3:14:54said, "Okay, I'll lend you this one."
3:14:59>> So, um
3:15:01it sounds as if you couldn't let Danny
3:15:04go. Like, you're you're still there.
3:15:07You're still hoping.
3:15:09>> The hope isn't much, but
3:15:11>> But you're still hoping.
3:15:12>> I still can't.
3:15:12>> You're not You're not walking away from
3:15:14them, right? You haven't walked away
3:15:16from them even with the comments that
3:15:18you've received these comments from.
3:15:21>> I had and then
3:15:25But
3:15:27I had for a while I disappeared from him
3:15:29for a while. But I needed it was just he
3:15:34he's that calm that he can he can make
3:15:38me calm. So I reached back out to him.
3:15:41>> So is the is it you instigating all the
3:15:43communication or does he reach back?
3:15:45Does he start?
3:15:45>> He reached back as well.
3:15:47>> Okay.
3:15:49Now,
3:15:52you have to figure, as I said, the media
3:15:54can be horrific in some cases. And I I
3:15:56told you you not to read or pay
3:15:58attention to the news.
3:16:00>> And I know for a fact that in one of the
3:16:02newspapers, that the angle that's being
3:16:05portrayed right now is that this was a
3:16:07drug, that you guys were um not a
3:16:09random, but a targeted residence
3:16:12because of drugrelated activity.
3:16:15You and your family were engaged in
3:16:17drugrelated activity.
3:16:20Now,
3:16:21is it possible that Danny
3:16:26that you are being mistaken somehow as
3:16:29being involved in his life in that angle
3:16:31of things?
3:16:32>> Well, I haven't been around his life for
3:16:34a while, like going out with him,
3:16:39but I wouldn't say it's completely out
3:16:41of the question, but I haven't I don't I
3:16:44don't go around with him when he's doing
3:16:46that kind of stuff. I I don't like it
3:16:49and I refuse to be a part of that.
3:16:50>> And now what do you say about Chris the
3:16:52comment about Christine and the running?
3:16:56>> I kind of took a blind eye to that I
3:16:57guess.
3:16:57>> But are is it is it your understanding
3:17:00that she may be not only part of it but
3:17:03linking him to the people involved in
3:17:04this activity
3:17:07>> and
3:17:09because like I told you, he gives me
3:17:11that answer and I kind of take a blind
3:17:13eye. But if I were to
3:17:17tell you what I thought of what was
3:17:19that, I would think that she she also
3:17:23has her own thing going,
3:17:27>> her own business. Does she work for a
3:17:29living?
3:17:31>> What I know of her is that uh I think he
3:17:35mentioned that she worked at No Frills,
3:17:36but it wasn't like she didn't work
3:17:38often. Like I think he he mentioned that
3:17:41she doesn't have a job once, but I know
3:17:44she worked for no frills. I don't know
3:17:45if she still does.
3:17:47Um
3:17:48>> which no frills do you know?
3:17:49>> Unfortunately, I'm not sure.
3:17:51>> Do you know what area of of town or
3:17:53where she lives?
3:17:54>> She lives at Midland and Steels.
3:17:56>> At Midland and Steels. Yes.
3:17:58>> On the Markham or Scarbo side?
3:18:00>> On on the Scarbo side.
3:18:03>> On the Scarbor side. And Christine, you
3:18:04don't know her last name?
3:18:06>> Felipe.
3:18:06>> Felipe.
3:18:09What's that? What nationality is she?
3:18:11>> Filipino.
3:18:11>> Filipino.
3:18:12>> Um,
3:18:13>> and how old is Christine?
3:18:16>> I I only know she's older than me. I'm
3:18:17not sure if she's his age or older. I'm
3:18:20not sure.
3:18:20>> Did he ever say where he met her?
3:18:22>> We all We all went to the same high
3:18:24school. And they also uh Yeah, they all
3:18:27we all went to the same high school.
3:18:29>> What school was that?
3:18:30>> Mary Ward.
3:18:31>> Mary Ward.
3:18:32>> Yes.
3:18:35Now,
3:18:37how would you feel if
3:18:40you know like
3:18:42Daniel is the one who's
3:18:46through through whatever activity that
3:18:48he's engaged in and you've been around
3:18:50but not necessarily having an
3:18:51understanding because you're seen with
3:18:52him that he's brought this back to you.
3:19:04I don't know if that's in fact happened.
3:19:06I'm trying to find a rhyme or reason for
3:19:08why your house was targeted. I'm still
3:19:10trying to figure out how they got in
3:19:12your house.
3:19:15Like, you didn't hear You didn't hear a
3:19:16doorbell. You didn't hear a door knock.
3:19:18You didn't hear a door kicked in. You
3:19:21didn't
3:19:22>> I was like I said, I was watching TV on
3:19:24the floor. I I don't know how.
3:19:27>> Yeah, I I know. Oh, we went over that
3:19:29back and back and forth. We don't know
3:19:31how.
3:19:33So, somehow they got into your house
3:19:37by getting through your mom down on the
3:19:40lower level, right? Cuz she's the only
3:19:41one who's down there.
3:19:42>> She was the only one down there.
3:19:44>> So, it's very confusing.
3:19:48Um,
3:19:49we do have surveillance cameras from the
3:19:52area, right, that explain that. Well,
3:19:54hopefully, but it's that's, you know,
3:19:56that's still in work in progress.
3:19:59Um,
3:20:02but
3:20:04generally random events
3:20:08are not in most cases random. There's a
3:20:11rhyme or reason why they've come to your
3:20:12house.
3:20:14But from what you've told me inside the
3:20:16house, the only thing that you hear them
3:20:17saying to you is they're looking for
3:20:19money.
3:20:20They're not looking for a specific
3:20:22quantity of money.
3:20:23>> No. Do you ever hear number one telling
3:20:26number three about the quantity of money
3:20:28that he's recovered?
3:20:29>> No.
3:20:33>> I don't hear that.
3:20:38>> All the comment you hear from number one
3:20:39really is is is time to go. We've been
3:20:42here too long. We've been here too long.
3:20:44>> Yes. And number three was the one that
3:20:46says was was my father and all I could
3:20:48what I heard from him was basically
3:20:50where's more? You're lying.
3:20:58So, you're telling me that you you had
3:21:01no involvement in what happened,
3:21:04meaning not saying how the outcome came,
3:21:06but you you had no involvement in in any
3:21:09type of illegal activity that would have
3:21:10drawn you or the attention of you to
3:21:13have bad people come to your house
3:21:15looking for large sums of money.
3:21:19You're not involved in this any which
3:21:21way.
3:21:23Because the question obviously stands,
3:21:26Jennifer, is
3:21:28you're upstairs and they're downstairs.
3:21:31>> No.
3:21:32>> Right.
3:21:34So, it's a natural concern
3:21:38when why would they leave you alone? Why
3:21:41would they not do the same to you?
3:21:50And you can't answer that question.
3:21:54>> The only thing I can say is he said I
3:21:55cooperated.
3:21:58>> But I asked him to take me.
3:22:00>> The number one guy. The number one guy
3:22:02said you cooperated.
3:22:05>> Okay.
3:22:07There's no You had no threats. And
3:22:10again, we're back to the fact that you
3:22:11admittedly lied. Okay. Not to me, right?
3:22:15Not to me.
3:22:16>> No.
3:22:16>> You admittedly lied. You've lied to your
3:22:19parents,
3:22:21right, about going to school. You've
3:22:24lied to to Danny about being Daniel
3:22:28about being raped and about receiving a
3:22:30bullet.
3:22:32Who's to say this whole thing isn't a
3:22:34lie?
3:22:36That what you're telling me is a lie?
3:22:38Because if you are lying, it's the most
3:22:40cold-blooded thing that I have ever
3:22:42faced in my life.
3:23:00There is nothing that you've said to me
3:23:01today is a lie.
3:23:04And I I want to there I want to just put
3:23:07a little preamble. Not nothing in here
3:23:10that you might have mistaken because of
3:23:12order of events. I'm saying to you right
3:23:16now, is there anything throughout the
3:23:18course of your statement today where
3:23:21you've lied to me?
3:23:27From your interaction with Danny,
3:23:29Daniel,
3:23:31from your I'm not involved in drugs and
3:23:34I don't have anything to do with them
3:23:35and we don't have large sums of money.
3:23:38What about life insurance policies? Do
3:23:39your parents have life insurance
3:23:41policies?
3:23:45I I think I I don't know. I know they
3:23:48had a
3:23:49>> they had a
3:23:53I have one on myself.
3:23:55>> Yes.
3:23:56>> And uh my mom uh they used to have one
3:24:00for me when I was younger.
3:24:02>> Okay.
3:24:02>> But uh half of that went to education,
3:24:04half went to
3:24:07uh life insurance. And when they found
3:24:10out I I uh I didn't go to university,
3:24:14they
3:24:16they asked for the money back.
3:24:17>> So, hang on a second here. You told to
3:24:19me that you told me that they never knew
3:24:21you didn't go to university. When did
3:24:23they find out that you didn't go to
3:24:24university?
3:24:26>> I told them that I graduated, but I
3:24:29never went to university. That I went
3:24:32for two years, but I never finished.
3:24:34>> Okay. And they wanted the money back as
3:24:37a result of that? Yes.
3:24:38>> So, you did actually tell your parents
3:24:40somewhat of the truth that you never
3:24:41went to university or but it's it's
3:24:43halftruths.
3:24:45>> Yes.
3:24:47>> So,
3:24:48back to this line is um
3:24:52where we're talking about the fact that
3:24:54of the lying, right? Is that it's
3:24:56>> I don't deal with the drugs. I don't
3:24:59associate with that.
3:25:02>> Okay.
3:25:03>> I honestly I don't.
3:25:05Now,
3:25:07back to another very difficult question,
3:25:10but if I don't ask it, I'm going to be
3:25:12it's an obvious one. The resentment that
3:25:14you had that you may have had towards
3:25:17your parents for the interference in
3:25:19your relationship and your life and
3:25:20essentially locking you down in your
3:25:22house.
3:25:25>> At the end of the day, I love my parents
3:25:26and I chose to be with them.
3:25:31And if I wanted to, I could have just
3:25:34left. But I didn't. I wanted to stay
3:25:36with them and take care of them.
3:25:40>> So this wasn't some evil plot that you
3:25:42thought up to
3:25:43>> Oh my god. No.
3:25:47>> No interaction, no belief, no. You
3:25:49didn't have anything to do with this
3:25:50thing at all whatsoever.
3:25:52>> You don't engage in illegal activity?
3:25:54>> No.
3:25:57>> Cuz you know that it'll be very easy. It
3:25:59will be a very easy thing to discredit
3:26:00you on. Right. We're we're in the
3:26:02process of trying to add credibility to
3:26:04what you tell us and that's through the
3:26:06process of asking people and doing
3:26:07whatever. Through that same process, it
3:26:10will be very easy to find the flaws in
3:26:12what you've said
3:26:13>> which again then turns the focus back to
3:26:15you.
3:26:17>> Okay. I don't
3:26:18>> It's a natural progress. It's a natural
3:26:20thing that investigators do. We
3:26:22eliminate people
3:26:23>> or we draw our attention to them. It's a
3:26:26natural uh thing. It's a it's not brain
3:26:28surgery. Okay.
3:26:34What did you talk to Michelle about? Did
3:26:36you talk to Michelle last night or the
3:26:39day before that you were coming about
3:26:41talking to the police?
3:26:44>> I just asked her how she was feeling cuz
3:26:46she was nervous.
3:26:47>> And what did you tell her?
3:26:49>> Just tell the truth. Tell you what, you
3:26:51know.
3:26:53And the threats that you you say that
3:26:55you've received, the threats that you've
3:26:57talked about are the same threats that
3:26:59you're mentioning from the text
3:27:00messaging. They're not really you. Did
3:27:03you receive any life-threatening or are
3:27:05they basically to stay away from
3:27:08>> just the email saying the the messages
3:27:10saying stay away
3:27:12>> from Danny?
3:27:13>> Yes.
3:27:14>> Okay. I heard a knock on the door. Get
3:27:15bear with me.
3:34:33Can anyone come in?
3:34:41I'm here. I'm right here.
3:38:08Jennifer, I'm just up here. Okay. Right
3:38:11back. I'm just up there.
3:41:20Let me go. Let's go.
3:43:31Okay, we're we're we're
3:43:33essentially.
3:43:36How you feeling?
3:43:37>> Sorry, you really scared me.
3:43:39>> Did I? What' I scare you about? Sit
3:43:40down. Sit down and and take take a load
3:43:42off. Tell me how tell me how you're
3:43:44feeling and how I scared you.
3:43:49I don't want you walking away from here
3:43:50thinking I'm evil. I want you to walking
3:43:52around from here thinking that this guy
3:43:54is helping investigate my mom's murder
3:43:56and he's going to turn over every stone
3:43:58possible to make sure that we catch the
3:44:00people who do that. That's what I want
3:44:01you feeling. So, I don't want you
3:44:02walking away from here thinking that I'm
3:44:03a I'm I scared you or I'm I'm a bad man.
3:44:08Sometimes we have to ask very very
3:44:09difficult questions, but it's my job.
3:44:13Okay? And you would expect that from me.
3:44:17And it's not you're not the only person
3:44:19that we're asking this stuff of, right?
3:44:22But you're the most obvious person that
3:44:24we have to ask this stuff to.
3:44:29And there's it's just it's just the way
3:44:32we operate. It's the way we have to
3:44:34operate. It's a tough job to to the to
3:44:36deal with someone's murder. And there's
3:44:38some very bad people and there's some
3:44:40very tough questions that need to be
3:44:42asked. So, you have to I hope you
3:44:44understand that.
3:44:48>> I understand that. It's just
3:44:53>> it's hard to take.
3:44:56>> Have you lied to me?
3:44:58>> No. No, you haven't lied to me about
3:45:01anything.
3:45:03>> I said whatever I could to help.
3:45:05>> Okay. So, if you've always told the
3:45:08truth, the truth will never hurt you. It
3:45:10may get you into a bit of trouble,
3:45:12right? The truth can get you into
3:45:13trouble if you've done some things
3:45:15wrong, but generally in most cases, if
3:45:18you tell the truth, you'll always be
3:45:21fine.
3:45:25So that's that's the avenue that that
3:45:28that's the avenue you have to think
3:45:29about and and what you I can always I
3:45:31never do anything wrong if I tell the
3:45:32truth and if I've made if I've said some
3:45:34things that are lies or I've held
3:45:37something back because I think it might
3:45:38hurt me. Those are the things that will
3:45:41cause people to look at you more
3:45:45intently because the question is is why
3:45:47would that person do that to me? They've
3:45:49got something to hide. Right?
3:45:52So,
3:45:55you know, the fact that you've lied to
3:45:56your parents over a long period of time,
3:45:59the fact that you've lied about to
3:46:00Daniel about those other two events, you
3:46:03know, those are disturbing,
3:46:07but I don't live in your shoes and I
3:46:09would never judge you on that fact. But
3:46:11from an outsider looking in, to have to
3:46:14live under those conditions, to have to
3:46:16lie continually,
3:46:20you're going to ask the question why.
3:46:30And if that's the way that you have to
3:46:31live, that's the way you have to live.
3:46:34But people will judge you on your lying,
3:46:37right?
3:46:44So, is there anything else that you
3:46:46think that you can think of that might h
3:46:49help us?
3:47:09There was this one person who
3:47:13added me on Facebook
3:47:20and I found it weird that he had added
3:47:24me out of nowhere
3:47:27and I had looked in common friends and
3:47:30saw that he was friends with this girl,
3:47:32that girl Christine. When I spoke to
3:47:35Daniel about it, I don't know if he told
3:47:37her or not, but I asked him like, "Is
3:47:41she just casual friends with him or is
3:47:45she good friends with him?"
3:47:48And the day after
3:47:51I asked him this, they were no longer
3:47:53friends on Facebook.
3:47:55>> Who is this guy? What did he look like?
3:47:57>> Casey Law. I've never met him.
3:48:00apparently went to high school as well,
3:48:02but I don't recall ever meeting him.
3:48:08And he kept asking me questions that
3:48:12I don't know if it's just his
3:48:13personality, but he asked me questions
3:48:14that I thought were
3:48:17too abrupt to ask someone you just met.
3:48:21>> Like what? Give me an example.
3:48:24He asked
3:48:27if I had a boyfriend and if I was
3:48:30looking for a boyfriend and if I engaged
3:48:33in sex and things like that.
3:48:37>> So that's the kind of question he was,
3:48:40you know, provoking you.
3:48:44Casey Law and did you recognize the name
3:48:47from school?
3:48:50recognizable, but again, I don't
3:48:51remember ever even having a conversation
3:48:53with him.
3:48:54>> And so, he said he went to your school.
3:48:57>> Yeah, but he was older than me.
3:48:59>> He's older than you. And um what what
3:49:03does he look like?
3:49:05>> Chinese guy.
3:49:06>> Yeah.
3:49:08>> When I when I talked to him, he said
3:49:09that he was uh working like security.
3:49:15>> Okay.
3:49:17So that's that's on on on things that
3:49:19strange things that have happened to you
3:49:21recently. That's that's it that you can
3:49:24think of is that that one and plus
3:49:25obviously the the the stuff that was
3:49:28going on with Christine and the the
3:49:30ghost messages that you were receiving,
3:49:32right? From from these were numbers that
3:49:36didn't exist or they didn't have any.
3:49:37>> No, it was blocked
3:49:38>> blocked numbers. And when I called
3:49:41Rogers, they said that's not possible.
3:49:44>> For a text message to come in with a
3:49:46block number.
3:49:47>> Yes.
3:49:49>> Okay.
3:49:58So, um you know that whatever everything
3:50:01you've told us has been under oath.
3:50:03>> Yes.
3:50:05you know that part of it our job is is
3:50:08to go back and
3:50:11look at what you've told us to try and
3:50:13match up to the reality of what we h of
3:50:16evidence that we have. Right.
3:50:19And you said you're we're you said
3:50:22essentially
3:50:24nothing. You you didn't really change
3:50:25much from your first statement to your
3:50:27second statement, right? You've you've
3:50:29uh you've explained more. We've we've
3:50:31covered off more,
3:50:34but is there anything in this course of
3:50:36these that you think you want to change?
3:50:46>> You made me like now I feel like I've
3:50:48said something wrong.
3:50:49>> You have not I I don't know if you said
3:50:51you have to me you've said
3:50:52>> no no I've said everything that I know
3:50:54that is true. And I'm asking you is if
3:50:56from reflecting on what you've told me
3:50:57today, which is fairly consistent with
3:51:01the first statement, it's just there's
3:51:02more detail now. Is there anything in
3:51:04there from what you've been going down
3:51:06and what you think be? It should be
3:51:08right on the tip of your tongue. If you
3:51:10want to change something, it would be
3:51:11like,
3:51:13you know what, I I said this and I I I
3:51:16really meant this. It's not something
3:51:17you've missed. It's something that you
3:51:19knowingly have said that you want to
3:51:20change that you know was wrong or could
3:51:23be taken wrong.
3:51:25>> Okay. Well, well, first thing, the
3:51:27school thing.
3:51:28>> Yes.
3:51:29>> I didn't go to university, but I told my
3:51:31parents that I went for a few years,
3:51:34right?
3:51:34>> How long ago did you How long did you
3:51:36tell them that? How long ago did they
3:51:38find out?
3:51:39>> I told them everything when I was going
3:51:41I was seeing Daniel and that I only I
3:51:45told him I only went partial school.
3:51:47Okay.
3:51:48>> And I told them all.
3:51:49>> And when was that? What year was that?
3:51:50When? How long ago?
3:51:51>> A year and a half ago.
3:51:52>> So is this when the ultimatum come down?
3:51:54Is after that? Is that at that point in
3:51:56time?
3:51:56>> The ultimatum came about a
3:51:59there there's always been ultimatums
3:52:02like they always gave me a second.
3:52:03>> But the one that you made the choice
3:52:05where you were at because you say that
3:52:06was about a year and a half ago too. Is
3:52:08that part of when you came clean to a
3:52:11certain extent? You say you came clean.
3:52:14Coming clean would be mom and dad. No, I
3:52:15didn't come clean, but I came like
3:52:18when I when I said
3:52:21when I said what they know.
3:52:25>> And that was a year and a half ago.
3:52:26>> Yes.
3:52:27>> Okay. So, there's one that you've we've
3:52:30clarified. Is there anything else that
3:52:31you can think of?
3:52:38>> Is there anything that
3:52:41like I everything I said is what I said.
3:52:44That's all.
3:52:45>> That's all I know.
3:52:46>> Yeah, you just making me feel like
3:52:48>> you're looking at me to for me to try
3:52:50and tell you what I think you've said
3:52:51was wrong. I don't know. I I'm I'm
3:52:54telling you that I'm um I I've heard
3:52:59everything that you've had to say. I
3:53:01don't have this uh miraculous TV ability
3:53:05that says I can pull out a chunk of this
3:53:07and say to you that portion's wrong. I
3:53:10can tell you from what you've told us,
3:53:13we're going to compare it with all the
3:53:14evidence we have and see how consistent
3:53:16it is. There's no way you're expected to
3:53:19be 100%. It's impossible. Okay?
3:53:23Eyewitnesses for every event we know are
3:53:26have don't have the ability to recall
3:53:28everything. So that's why we ask you do
3:53:30to the best of your ability.
3:53:34My concern lies in the fact of your
3:53:37lying.
3:53:38Okay? You've come clean. You've never
3:53:41lied to me before, right? I've never met
3:53:45you to be a liar. But the fact is is
3:53:46that you've lied about stuff to Daniel.
3:53:50You've lied to your parents.
3:53:53So,
3:53:56could you be lying to me?
3:53:58>> I can't.
3:53:59>> Why couldn't you be lying to
3:54:00>> Cuz you're scaring me.
3:54:02>> Doesn't mean that you couldn't be lying
3:54:04to me, right? I don't know you. I've
3:54:08known you now for probably five hours
3:54:10intermittent.
3:54:12I hope you're not lying to me. Right?
3:54:15That's all I can hope for.
3:54:18But the fact of the matter is is that
3:54:19those three things are sitting there
3:54:21saying, you know, like you have the
3:54:23ability to trick your parents for a long
3:54:25period of time.
3:54:28>> They just weren't in I was doing
3:54:31>> very explainable. And I also weren't I
3:54:33wasn't living where you are, right? And
3:54:36I'm so I'm not going to prejudge you
3:54:37because I people do what they need to do
3:54:39to survive.
3:54:41So it could very easily be justified as
3:54:43a survival mechanism. This is the best
3:54:45avenue that you saw it and you were
3:54:46stuck in it. Okay. But the fact is is
3:54:50that my job is is trying to get the root
3:54:53of a of a very serious crime and I have
3:54:56to explore every avenue that we possibly
3:54:58can.
3:54:59So, I'm going to do everything in my
3:55:01power to either prove us as as our
3:55:04police agency, prove or disprove what
3:55:06you've told us. The more we prove
3:55:10or can cooperate, the more credibility
3:55:12you you have as as a witness. Okay,
3:55:16that's going to happen.
3:55:18We may even ask you to come back again
3:55:22again. It will be not for you will not
3:55:25be explaining what happened
3:55:28in a grand scheme of things because
3:55:29you've done that up and down and
3:55:31backwards. It may be for points of
3:55:33clarification, okay? Because again,
3:55:35we're speaking to we're going to be
3:55:36going and likely speaking to some of
3:55:37your friends and your relatives and it's
3:55:41just points of clarification may not
3:55:44happen. It it may, you know, I'm only
3:55:46saying that it may I told you I didn't
3:55:48want to do the five and six and seven
3:55:49interviews with you. Well, after today
3:55:52that's not going to happen, but we may
3:55:54be contacting you to help us for some
3:55:57other points that we come across. Okay?
3:55:59Again, it goes back to your credibility,
3:56:01but I don't no one's going to sit you
3:56:02down and crank you through
3:56:05um the events unless you were involved
3:56:09in it,
3:56:11right? And then I can't then all all
3:56:13promises or all everything comes off.
3:56:16If you had some involvement in this then
3:56:20then I'm just saying all the all the
3:56:22rules. If you didn't have anything to do
3:56:24with this and you're telling me the
3:56:27truth
3:56:29then we may be calling you to add is
3:56:31this true what this person's saying that
3:56:33this way and we may be asking you points
3:56:36like that. Okay. You you're our only
3:56:39link.
3:56:41you're it until your dad regains his
3:56:44back and being able to be be spoken to
3:56:47right now. You're our only link to this
3:56:49case. So, we're we may rely on you
3:56:52heavily on until we can speak to your
3:56:53father.
3:56:56Okay? So, don't be afraid. If you've
3:56:59told the truth, the last thing you
3:57:00should be afraid of is is anything. If
3:57:02you've told the truth and you've been
3:57:04truthful through this whole process,
3:57:06then you're helping. You're doing your
3:57:09part.
3:57:10Okay. And don't be afraid of me.
3:57:13>> I'm just afraid because, you know, like
3:57:17I know everything is just all pointing
3:57:20negatively right now. And I I don't
3:57:22understand why
3:57:23>> it's not all pointing negatively. And
3:57:24>> you know what? You're you're So you're
3:57:26misunderstanding things that you're
3:57:27thinking it's all negatively pointing
3:57:29anywhere. It's not pointing anywhere
3:57:31right now. We are still gathering and
3:57:34gathering and gathering. There is no
3:57:36direction that we're there's nothing.
3:57:39You are not a suspect in this in this
3:57:41investigation.
3:57:42Okay. You're a witness and a victim of a
3:57:45crime.
3:57:46>> I know, but I'm just I'm just I feel
3:57:49that like the way you're you're speaking
3:57:51to me, it's kind of like I know you said
3:57:54that you had to say those things, but
3:57:56it's
3:57:56>> Yeah,
3:57:57>> it's here. And
3:58:00I've already said it to the special
3:58:02victims yesterday, but there's like
3:58:04ideas in my head.
3:58:06>> Yeah.
3:58:07And I'm afraid to say it out loud,
3:58:10but
3:58:11>> ideas about speculation of what
3:58:13happened, how it happened,
3:58:14>> ideas of why
3:58:18why wasn't I there.
3:58:22>> It is you
3:58:25you that psychologically is an issue
3:58:28that you need to straighten out with
3:58:30counseling. Okay. for you to speculate
3:58:33into the investigation as to why you
3:58:35weren't there. Unless unless it's
3:58:37standing out, you I believe you said in
3:58:40your opinion was is that
3:58:41>> they said I cooperated.
3:58:42>> Cooperated, right?
3:58:45And in uh in a in a case that makes no
3:58:48sense, that could be the only sense that
3:58:50we get out of the investigation is that
3:58:52strange things happen, right? Strange
3:58:55things happen.
3:58:57So
3:58:59yeah, unfortunately uh at times some of
3:59:02us have to point the finger, seem like
3:59:04we're pointing the finger and it really
3:59:05is just to provoke you to see what
3:59:07you're going to do, how you're going to
3:59:08respond.
3:59:10Okay, so
3:59:13it's only a question and it it's been
3:59:15answered. And if you've been truthful,
3:59:17okay, you have nothing to fear.
3:59:20Absolutely nothing.
3:59:22Okay.
3:59:26>> What do you want to say?
3:59:30that I got a phone call once and like I
3:59:32I said earlier I don't know if you it it
3:59:36was like zoned in but they contact they
3:59:39said that they could make everything
3:59:40disappear and that's what I'm afraid of
3:59:44because you're asking me all these
3:59:45questions and I'm answering them
3:59:47truthfully but I'm afraid that
3:59:50>> well I can't answer them for you. Well,
3:59:53there's some, you know, not you're the
3:59:55technology exists, you know, um there is
3:59:58some technology out there, I'm sure that
4:00:00can make things disappear. And I know
4:00:01that not everything is captured. So, you
4:00:04know, we go back to interviewing someone
4:00:06else who may say, "Yeah, well, she told
4:00:08me about this and uh or I had similar
4:00:11things." So, there's other ways around
4:00:13it. It's not This case isn't going to
4:00:15hinge on small inconsistencies,
4:00:18right? It's not going to hinge on small
4:00:20>> It's not inconsistency. It's I'm afraid
4:00:22of what is out there because you you
4:00:27shine a light that it could have been
4:00:28because of what he's involved in.
4:00:32>> Is it is it not a possibility?
4:00:35>> I know like you have given me that
4:00:38>> and with that I'm just like I'm scared
4:00:39because
4:00:42>> it could be anybody out there
4:00:44>> right now. It could be anyone and that's
4:00:47the reality of it right. We don't we're
4:00:50the theories. We're we're at the same
4:00:53position of you as speculating as to
4:00:55theories and and reasons why. And um you
4:00:59can't be confined in your theories
4:01:00because you know if you're sitting here
4:01:01looking like this, you know, at a small
4:01:04with the blinders on that this is it's
4:01:06it's like this. We got to think at every
4:01:09possible way that it could that this
4:01:11crime could have been happening. And you
4:01:13know, saying that it could have been
4:01:14Daniel. Yeah, it could have been Daniel.
4:01:16Could it have been a random act? Yeah,
4:01:18it could have been a random. Could they
4:01:19have been targeted because of something
4:01:21did? Yeah, it could have been. We've got
4:01:23to explore them all
4:01:26and then try and figure out which one
4:01:28through motive and opportunity and means
4:01:30was likely to have occurred and
4:01:32hopefully we start to focus down on
4:01:34suspects.
4:01:37But right now there's no fingers being
4:01:39directed at anyone.
4:01:41>> It's just I feel
4:01:44>> that's what you're meant to feel.
4:01:46Okay.
4:01:48That's what you're meant to feel.
4:01:52But there's nothing right now other than
4:01:53what you told me about the changing
4:01:55where you fixed it at the end about your
4:01:57>> I just wanted to clarify that. Yeah.
4:01:58>> Okay. So, is there anything else?
4:02:01>> Not off the top of my head.
4:02:14So, we're back to this last question
4:02:15that uh comes back to is is there
4:02:18anything else I should note uh to
4:02:20understand your statement fully? And
4:02:21that's again is that this is where
4:02:23you'll drop in that I took five hits of
4:02:25acid before I you're not on drugs.
4:02:27You're not uh taking liquor. You're not
4:02:30taking any medication. You're
4:02:32you
4:02:34voluntarily gave this statement and you
4:02:38did it having a full understanding of
4:02:40what you've told me. Yes.
4:02:42>> Yes.
4:02:53Okay. So, the recorders are being shut
4:02:55off as we speak.
4:02:59The time

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