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Rank & Rent SEO: How Ippei Built 130 Sites - and Made $240K From One 15-Hour Website — Transcript

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0:00We are talking about rank and rent on
0:02the podcast with EP. EP, you've been
0:04requested a bunch of times to come on
0:07this show and this is going to be a
0:08great great episode. I'm so hyped. Thank
0:11you for coming on the pod.
0:13>> Well, I appreciate you having me on and
0:15it's a great honor. I've been watching
0:17your channel for quite a long time, so
0:20it feels like I'm talking to a celebrity
0:22here. So, yeah, it's great to be here.
0:24>> Let's go. Let's go. Thank you. Um so all
0:27right just uh opening question for
0:30somebody new to the concept what is rank
0:32and rent?
0:33>> So rank and rank is um unlike an SEO
0:38agency where you're ranking other
0:40business owners websites. We're going to
0:42rank our own websites to the top of
0:45Google for local services.
0:48Uh we really love working with home
0:50construction type of industries, general
0:52contractors. Um, you know, especially in
0:54the US there, people are homeowners
0:56here. I don't I think people
0:57underestimate how much money is
0:59exchanging hands just in your
1:00neighborhood and your community each and
1:02every day. People need drywall done,
1:04wood flooring, concrete. You know, these
1:07things sound so mundane, but when you
1:09get into it, you realize how much money
1:11is exchanging hands. You know, each one
1:13of these like concrete jobs might go 5
1:16$10,000. Uh, these websites can also
1:19rank for commercial jobs. You know, I
1:21just recently had a roofing client close
1:23a $200,000 commercial roofing job. And
1:26then with Rank and R, we rank our own
1:28websites. We add our tracking phone
1:31number on these websites. And the
1:33tracking phone number is a really
1:35important key piece to this because
1:36every time I one of my rank and rent
1:38sites generates a phone call for a local
1:40business owner, every time they pick up
1:42the phone, it the software attaches a
1:44whisper message at the beginning of the
1:46call. So for me, it'll say this lead was
1:48sent to you by eBay at the beginning of
1:49the call, right before the customer
1:51begins speaking. Uh so now you own this
1:55website, you own this phone line. Once
1:56they start getting these uh leads from
1:58you, another important piece is that you
2:00know when you're first trying to get
2:02into SEO or business for that matter,
2:04like you have to sell something to
2:06somebody, right? And that selling part
2:08of it is can be kind of challenging,
2:10especially like I started this business
2:12over 11 years ago. I didn't have any
2:13sales experience. But with these
2:15websites, once they rank and generating
2:17leads, we can start throw throwing free
2:20leads to these business owners using the
2:23whisper message, they're hearing your
2:24name, then we reach out to the business
2:26owner and say, "Hey, I'm eay. I'm the
2:29guy that's been sending you those leads
2:30the last couple days. Would you like to
2:33work? Would you want more of those
2:35customers or do you have the capacity to
2:37handle more of these customers?" If so,
2:39then I like to create a long-term
2:41win-win relationship. And then at that
2:43point, we're kind of be able to lead
2:46with results in advance and be able to
2:48get our foot in the door with these
2:49business owners. And once these business
2:51owners, you know, they're already
2:53intrigued. They want to know like how
2:54did you even generate those customers,
2:57you start the relation, I like starting
2:59the relationship on a commission deal.
3:01So, you're pretty much risking all the
3:03you're removing all the risks from the
3:05business owner. Hey, you know, like I
3:07like I know you just met me from the
3:08internet. Um, in order to prove myself,
3:12I like to just start the relationship on
3:13a commission deal. And if everything
3:15goes well, then eventually I like to do
3:18a a flat fee rental where it makes sense
3:20for both parties. And then after a month
3:22or two, the business owner is confident
3:25in you. There's trust built. Then you
3:27can rent these websites out for $1,000 a
3:29month, $2,000 a month. There's a few
3:31other ways to monetize it. Right now,
3:33I'm working with a huge uh construction
3:35company in Los Angeles, which is where
3:36I'm located right now. and with them
3:39like they do like seven different
3:41services. I have dozens and dozens of
3:42these rank and rent sites all across LA
3:45um and in seven different niches and I'm
3:48API I have my call tracking software is
3:51API connected to their CRM. So I'm just
3:54getting paid straight commissions on
3:55every job that they close. So that can
3:58be quite lucrative with the right
3:59business owner where that trust and
4:03trust is built. But for most rank and
4:05rent people, I think closing it on a
4:07flat fee provides a very um predictable
4:11uh residual income stream essentially.
4:13You mean, you know, I've been doing this
4:14for 11 years. I'm still a big I still
4:17love the rank and rent model. I mean, I
4:18have sites that I built over 11 years
4:20ago still paying me residual income to
4:22this day. I have the business owners
4:24credit card on file on Stripe and um uh
4:29yeah, we build it on a weekly basis.
4:30That's another like a hack is like it's
4:33better to bill business owners weekly as
4:35opposed to monthly so that they're not
4:37seeing this big fat bill at the end of
4:39the month where it's if it's weekly 250
4:41a week, they don't see it as much in
4:43their statements. Um, anyways, yeah, I
4:46mean, some of these clients I haven't
4:47talked to in a couple years and the
4:50credit card's on file and the money's
4:52coming in and they don't really I don't
4:54really need to talk to unlike an SEO
4:55client where I have to provide reports
4:58or I have to make sure that they're
5:01satisfied with my service or whatnot.
5:03Like with ranking, it's like I'm getting
5:05you the leads, you're paying me for the
5:06leads, and that's it. you're hearing my
5:08name every time you pick up the phone.
5:10And uh I don't have to do that much uh
5:12handholding or I feel like yeah with SEO
5:16I mean there's a lot of money to be made
5:18as a SEO agency. Um however you know in
5:22my experience some of the SEO clients
5:23like no matter how good of a job you do
5:26some clients just they when they decide
5:28to cancel on you there's nothing you can
5:30do. So uh with rank and rent I feel that
5:33there's way less churn and burn. Um, and
5:36also I think one good thing to or one um
5:42interesting thing to note here is that a
5:45lot of these general contractors like
5:47you know they're maybe a one-man show or
5:50they're just not their revenue is not
5:52quite there. They're the concrete guy or
5:54they're the tree care guy. Like these
5:56type of business owners, they don't have
5:58the budget for an elite SEO agency. you
6:01know, they don't have the budget to
6:02spend 1,500 a month or $2,000 a month
6:05from SEO agency that might you might
6:08have to wait four or five, six months.
6:11So, a lot of these business owners will
6:13try an SEO agency, but they'll try like
6:15a cheaper one. You know, there's a lot
6:17of like crappy agencies that are just
6:19selling like like $500 a month
6:22programs. They'll sign up for that and
6:24then they don't get any results after
6:26four or five months and then they cancel
6:27and they still didn't get the results.
6:29and this agency just built like maybe
6:31bad back links or whatever. And so a lot
6:32of these business owners have a bad
6:34taste in their mouth when it comes to
6:35SEO. So with rank and rent, we kind of
6:38like overstep in that entire um
6:41objection that they have about SEO
6:42because we're putting in the work. We're
6:44building and ranking the sites ourselves
6:47and then generating the results what
6:49they ultimately want, which are leads,
6:51which are customers to increase their
6:53bottom line. So
6:56you you know it you know it's going to
6:58be an amazing episode when just an
7:01absurd amount of value is delivered
7:03within the first like seven minutes. You
7:06you know it's going to be a good episode
7:08when you get so much good stuff right
7:12there in the first seven minutes. Um,
7:14all right. Just going going back to the
7:16beginning and we're going to get into
7:17everything like choosing the a niche and
7:19location, building links, building the
7:21site structure for the site, the Google
7:24business profile. We're going to get
7:25into everything in this. But this method
7:28of marketing is so effective, I had to
7:29make sure it wasn't against Google's
7:31rules before I kept using it. It's a
7:33form of SEO I call compact keywords.
7:36Whereas most SEO focuses on putting up
7:38articles to answer questions, how, what,
7:40when, compact keywords focuses on
7:42putting up dozens of pages that sell to
7:44searchers who are actually looking to
7:46buy. These pages rank on Google and
7:49convert so much better than normal that
7:50when I discovered this years ago, I
7:52couldn't believe this was allowed. It's
7:54less work, too. The average compact
7:56keywords landing page is only 415 words.
7:59Compact Keywords is a 13-hour deep
8:02course on getting sales with SEO. A
8:04customer said, "We spent nearly 18,000
8:06in the last year and a half on marketing
8:08and SEO through different agencies
8:10locally, and that did nothing. We
8:12decided to take the leap on the compact
8:14keywords course. We're now getting about
8:166 to eight calls per day on a good day,
8:18which is just unheard of." Another
8:20customer said, "Give it to a junior
8:22employee. Have them follow it exactly as
8:24Edwards laid out. You don't have to do
8:26anything, and you're going to gain a
8:28six-figure SEO level employee just by
8:31having them go through this course."
8:33Compact Keywords is about setting up an
8:34SEO funnel that brings you sales for
8:37years and years and years. It works with
8:39AI. It's less work than traditional SEO
8:42and it makes way more money. You can get
8:44it now at compactkeywords.com.
8:47Back to the podcast. Just going back to
8:49the beginning. Um, how did you get
8:51started, man? Like how did you get
8:52started? And also, what was you've done
8:55so many sites, what was your most
8:57successful website?
9:00>> Yeah. So, you know, I'm 37 right now. I
9:04got started with Rank and Rent uh when I
9:06was 24. So, rough roughly over uh 11
9:10years ago. Um at the time I was 24. So,
9:13you know, I went to Michigan State
9:14University. I graduated with some BS
9:17degree, but at least I got the degree. I
9:20started working for an automotive
9:21company in Michigan. Um it was a
9:25Japanese company. I'm bilingual, so I
9:26can speak Japanese. I was born in Japan.
9:28uh and then moved to the US when I was
9:30nine. So I was working for this company
9:31that I I I didn't I hated the 9 to5. So
9:35you know after 3 years of working there,
9:37they gave me a standard 5% raise and my
9:39monthly paycheck went up by $60. Um cuz
9:43my starting salary was low. It was 35k a
9:45year. So after taxes, I was only making
9:47$2,200 a month. So you know that got I
9:51got really desperate about like figuring
9:52out some other way. Um I always dreamed
9:55of having a laptop lifestyle. started
9:57doing a bunch of research online and
9:59came across this program at the time was
10:01called jobkilling ran by this guy named
10:03Dan Klein. He was teaching rank and
10:06rent. I mean this was in 2014. So this
10:09was before there was like so many online
10:11coaching programs out there. Um and I
10:13joined
10:15uh started the whole business model made
10:17sense to me at the time. We were
10:19building like pretty like basic quite
10:21ugly sites on on Weebi. I started
10:24building like limousine sites. um in in
10:27Michigan and some tree care sites and
10:29towing sites. 7 months later, I had like
10:33four or five clients. I was making 3 4K
10:35a month. I uh put in my two weeks notice
10:37at the job and I quit and I haven't
10:40looked back since. I've been
10:41self-employed uh ever with Rank and Rent
10:43ever since. And uh two three years uh
10:46goes by and I'm at like 25K a month. 25
10:49to 30K. I'm like one of the top students
10:51in the community. He was doing like we
10:54were doing Vegas events every year and
10:57uh yeah and I started talking to Dan and
10:59and me and him like cho um uh me and him
11:02started talking about business and we
11:04started we ended up becoming partners
11:06and I so I ended up becoming uh partners
11:09with Dan uh and we started we worked
11:12closely together for the last like seven
11:13eight years.
11:16This is kind of a long story. I've tried
11:17to kind of speed it up here, but um so I
11:20got into some So then my focus started
11:23to shift towards the coaching program,
11:25right? So I I built a blog, eay.com,
11:28which I still have to this day. At one
11:29point I was spending like 50k a month on
11:31that site and content. Um I was doing
11:34like top of the funnel, bottom of the
11:36funnel, course reviews, uh keywords
11:38about like business models like Amazon
11:41FBA, drop shipping. and I was generating
11:43a bunch of these leads for the coaching
11:44program. Um, during the pandemic, like
11:48Dan made a bunch of money with online
11:49and with offline like really say he's a
11:51great entrepreneur and uh I think Dan
11:54was a great coach to get started with
11:56because he's not a SEO guy even though
12:00his model was teaching SEO. He's like he
12:03comes from a car sales background and so
12:06and I think he's a he's a naturalb born
12:08entrepreneur like he built like bunch of
12:10different businesses. So he taught me
12:11the value of not just like getting good
12:13at SEO but like how to build a business,
12:16how to build a scalable business, how to
12:17be good at sales, how to position
12:19yourself with these business owners so
12:21you can make lucrative deals. So he
12:23taught me a lot about business, right?
12:25Not just SEO. And um to make a long
12:29story short, um he kind of retired uh 5
12:33years ago and you know the training
12:35videos are kind of older in that group.
12:38So uh I launched my own uh rank and rank
12:41community like this past year and uh in
12:43the last year also this blog you know as
12:46you know like HelloFresh and all these
12:48different blogs I mean I got hit with
12:49those algorithmic updates as well. I
12:52mean at one point I was generating like
12:533,500 clicks on eay.com but these days I
12:56like it went down to like two 300 clicks
12:58two 300 per day clicks and I had to do a
13:01bunch of different things to try to
13:02recover. But uh you know and meanwhile
13:05I'm like there's a few different um
13:08algorithmic updates in the last seven
13:10years. I like where the site tanked and
13:11I had to bring it back up.
13:13>> But then I see these rank and rent sites
13:15that I built over 11 years ago and how
13:17steady the rankings have been.
13:18>> Dude, it's the bottom of the funnel.
13:20It's the bottom of the funnel, man.
13:21Bottom of the funnel doesn't die.
13:23>> Exactly. Yeah. And I'm I'm I took your
13:26compact keyword course as well. Great
13:28program, especially for the price.
13:30>> Amazing stuff.
13:31>> Yeah. I'm a big believer in bottom the
13:33funnel keywords as well. Um it has it's
13:36the sole reason I've survived with SEO
13:38with all these different sites and yeah
13:41I mean rank and rent we are targeting
13:43bottom the follow and it's like that's
13:44where the money is made anyway you know
13:47so yeah uh so like the last year um I
13:52went fully back into rank and rent and I
13:54built like 130 sites in the last year
13:57alone with rank and rent brand new
13:59sites.
14:00>> Oh my gosh. So, I'm I'm implementing
14:03more newer advanced SEO tactics as you
14:06can save that I've learned and
14:08implemented on ebay.com and I started
14:10applying on my rank and rent sites. So,
14:13uh yeah, obviously with those 130 sites,
14:16I'm kind of able to see what's working
14:19right now as opposed to like using
14:21tactics that I learned initially 11
14:23years ago.
14:24>> What's been your best site?
14:27I mean, I have b I have bunch of like
14:29sites that are now ranking Los Angeles
14:31and all around in Los Angeles. But I
14:34mean, the example that I like to always
14:35bring up is a tree care site in Grand
14:38Rapids, Michigan that I've owned for 11
14:40years, and it's been making me two grand
14:42a month for like 11 years, which is like
14:44that one site that I spent like
14:47>> 15 hours on has made me over like
14:50$240,000, which is insane when you're
14:53talking about these simple websites and
14:55what they can produce long term.
14:57>> Yeah, dude. That's that's amazing. Um
14:59what's what are the biggest
15:00misconceptions about the rank and rent
15:02business model? There's so many
15:04misconception. I mean like um I made a
15:06video a few weeks ago about how like
15:08people are on Reddit they're going rank
15:10and rent is dead. Like so yeah so many
15:13misconceptions about this.
15:15>> Yeah. So I think the biggest uh
15:18um biggest hurdle or biggest complaint
15:21that people might have is that um GBP
15:24has gotten
15:26the methods of getting GBP has shifted
15:29over the years, right? Like ranking a
15:31website has always been a thing that's
15:33important with rank and rent. Uh the
15:35thing I want to mention about GBP is
15:37that we're still getting them. We're
15:40doing these video verifications. It
15:42might be a little bit more gray hat, but
15:43we can still get GBPs. Um, and
15:48some niches are more GBP dependent than
15:51other niches. So, for example, uh, if
15:54you go into towing, like I don't need to
15:58visit a towing website. Like, I'm I'm in
16:00a hurry, right? Like, I'm just going to
16:01call the top GBP company that pops up
16:04and probably call. If I'm looking for
16:06custom cabinets, I want to probably look
16:08at the website, look at what kind of
16:10custom cabinets they have. And a lot of
16:12local websites are ugly, right? They
16:14they they look like sites that were
16:16built in like like 10 15 years ago. So
16:19you you can get advantage there from a
16:20design standpoint if you do a really
16:22good job in design. But you know,
16:24customers are going to call multiple
16:26companies. So they might call the GBP,
16:28but they might go down below the GBP and
16:30call the website as well. So, you know,
16:32I have a student that's making 15 20k a
16:35month with rank and rank and he doesn't
16:36even bother with GBPs, right? So, uh in
16:40the past when GBPs were easier to get, a
16:43lot of people got into rank and rent and
16:45only did GBPs. So, they were solely
16:47dependent on GBPs for rank and rent. And
16:50when it got a little bit more difficult,
16:52those people would now claim rank and
16:54rent is dead. But uh I assure you I have
16:57a lot of sites. Maybe the 130 sites that
17:00I have right now maybe I have GBPs for
17:02like 30 40% of them and we're still
17:04working on maybe getting a few more. But
17:06I teach that like ranking the website is
17:09more important than the GBP especially
17:12when you know the right types of niches.
17:14>> We'll get into uh Google business
17:15profile in in a a little bit. I want to
17:18start with um just choosing choosing a
17:20niche like so how do you even decide
17:22what niches are worth targeting? There's
17:25so many different niches that you can go
17:27into.
17:29>> Yeah, absolutely. And uh you know I'm
17:32finding about new niches all the time.
17:35So let me give you an example. So like
17:37one of the students like they started
17:38working with epoxy flooring company and
17:40that company also does custom storage
17:44units for garages. And sure enough, we
17:46started doing research and that's
17:47getting search volume. So that's a whole
17:49another niche. And especially when you
17:50can hyperarget what I like to call
17:52subniches or more obscure niches, these
17:55these niches become very very easy to
17:57rank as well. And when you already have
17:59a business owner that's want these jobs
18:02and you can rank easily, it can become
18:04quite lucrative. But to go back to your
18:06question, I think anything to do
18:08anything that's phone driven, anything
18:10that that has to do with home
18:12construction niches, I like targeting
18:15niches where the average value of a
18:17customer is like $2 to $3,000
18:19at least. Um, I stay away from the the
18:23lower ticket stuff personally like and
18:26the really common ones like uh plumbing
18:29or uh
18:32plumbing or HVAC or maybe even carpet
18:34cleaning. You know, there's place
18:36there's things like like Task Rabbit now
18:38where you can hire carpet cleaners. Um,
18:40I think plumbing is like that industry
18:43in of itself is saturated because
18:45there's just so many plumbing companies.
18:47What signals tell you that a local
18:49market is too competitive?
18:52>> So I you know I think you got to look at
18:54the competition on a more holistic
18:57level. You know I know some people just
18:59look at DR and uh keyword difficulty
19:02from various SEO tools but it's not
19:05quite that simple uh to look at
19:07competition. You actually want to do the
19:09local searches. You want to analyze the
19:11the top three, four, five websites. Um,
19:14you know,
19:16>> 100% 100% on this. I'm so with you.
19:18>> Yeah. Yeah. Like you got to take a look
19:20at the site. Obviously, you know, if you
19:24go into personal injury attorney law,
19:27all the top three, four sites have like
19:28a DR of like 30 plus. So, we avoid,
19:31that's another beautiful thing about
19:32rank and rent is like we can pick and
19:34choose our battles, right? Uh, so we'll
19:36avoid like very competitive niches like
19:39personal injury law. But in most home
19:41construction the DR you're dealing with
19:42like sites that are not that high in DR
19:44maybe five or less oftent times like DR
19:47zeros then it's about okay analyzing the
19:49website how quality it is right and most
19:52times you visit the website
19:55um what are the keyword structure the H1
19:57H2 H3s like just like like you know
20:00analyzing as an SEO agency would like
20:02what are the all the SEO mistakes that
20:04this site has made and there's plenty of
20:06mistakes that they have made because
20:07most contractors and general contract
20:09fact that they maybe hired a web
20:11developer for like $500 to build them a
20:13website, but it has no SEO optimization
20:15behind it. Uh, how many pages does this
20:18site have index? And many cases, they
20:20only have like 10 pages index. Well,
20:22then and I'm now I'm extremely confident
20:24that I can outrank this guy even without
20:26backlinks by building topical authority
20:28of indexing or ranking 30 40 pages,
20:31right? Um, are they using exact match
20:33domain or like what kind of keywords are
20:36part of their brand name? So I like to
20:39use exact match domains or um partial
20:41match domains so I have I get confidence
20:44there. Um and so yeah just looking at
20:47you know DR is one metric but it's only
20:50part of the picture just looking at the
20:52whole site as uh everything that I
20:54mentioned and if I see a bunch of
20:56weaknesses then I feel confident that
20:58that's a niche that's not saturated that
21:00you can compete and and rank in. Yeah,
21:03dude. That's why I love SEO because
21:04that's the case in like most niches is
21:08that is that a lot of the top sites that
21:10are ranking for for lucrative bottom
21:13offunnel keywords, they're doing it
21:15accidentally like they don't know what
21:17they're doing. They are they are not
21:19targeting these keywords and just by
21:21just by actually targeting the keyword,
21:23you can outrank them. Especially if
21:24you're an existing business for you,
21:26you're talking about building businesses
21:28from the ground up. Building sorry,
21:30websites from the ground up. So, so
21:32looking at authority is quite important
21:33because you're like, "Okay, we're
21:35actually going to have to like
21:36>> create authority here." Uh, that makes
21:38Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And you
21:40said that you prefer you prefer high
21:42ticket, low volume versus lower ticket,
21:46high volume. Obviously, you want high
21:47ticket, high volume, but
21:50>> Yeah. You said you're staying out of out
21:52of low ticket.
21:53>> Yeah. Like high high ticket like average
21:56volume. Okay. you know, um there are
21:59high ticket, super low volume ones that
22:02I think as a beginner in rank and that I
22:04probably would avoid such as let's just
22:06say maybe kitchen and bathroom
22:08remodeling. Okay, it's like that's going
22:10to be very like high ticket, but oftent
22:12times these jobs kind of take a while to
22:14close. People are real price shoppers.
22:17Uh these jobs might take a few months to
22:19to get done. Um and like you know I have
22:22some sites in like ADU construction. ADU
22:25stands for additional dwelling unit.
22:26These are only some states, California
22:28included, like people build like like
22:30houses like a secondary like uh small
22:34houses in their backyard and whatnot. Um
22:37those like it we're getting leads but
22:40it's difficult to close. So there
22:42there's some caveat depending on the
22:43industry, but you know, like anything to
22:45do with homes, right? Like drywall, just
22:48look around a home and all the different
22:49services that a home needs. You know,
22:51drywall, you got, you know, painting,
22:53you got custom cabinets, you got
22:55countertops,
22:57um, you got concrete driveways, metal
23:00gates, metal fences,
23:02um, foundation repair. Yeah, there's a
23:06bunch.
23:08Want to get into actually building the
23:09sites now and ranking the sites. So,
23:11what does your ideal rank and rent
23:14website structure look like?
23:18>> Well, we start off with like a a a brand
23:21that's good. Targeting I like targeting
23:23a city that's at least 80,000
23:25population. I think the sweet spot for
23:28most people is going to be 100 to like
23:30300,000 population cities. um you do
23:34some searches for that keyword and again
23:37I like again the keyword tools are not
23:39even that great for this either because
23:42I I for example drywall Glendale
23:44California if you were to put that on a
23:46keyword tool it shows zero monthly
23:47search volume but I get plenty of leads
23:50with that site as well um because you
23:53know as long as you do a search and you
23:55see uh businesses in the Google maps at
23:58least like 10 15 businesses the demand
24:00is going to be there once you rank
24:03right. So, first I pick in the right
24:05picking the right brand. Um, in terms of
24:09the right structure, I mean, you know,
24:10you want I I want the H1 to have the
24:13brand name first, the first words and
24:15the H1 and the brand name, the page
24:17title, the brand name as well. Um, and
24:20the main key words after the title,
24:22after the H1, uh, the first one to two
24:26paragraphs in my opinion is very
24:28important. It want to be very very clear
24:30and identify what that entity does. So
24:32if it's like Glendale qual quality
24:35drywall uh the first sentence I like to
24:38repeat the the brand Glendale quality
24:40windows has 20 years experience doing XY
24:43Z which XY Z is going to be the main
24:46various keywords of services that the
24:48company does. You also want to sort of
24:52increase the quality score in the eyes
24:54of Google. I like to like load different
24:57entities. When I say entities, different
24:59like maybe engineering terms, different
25:01things that are certain special keywords
25:04or not even search keywords, but certain
25:06words that are tied to that industry.
25:09Um, you know, such as maybe types of
25:12materials for that drywall or different
25:16um
25:18engineering terms, different uh
25:22different things that display expertise.
25:25Does that make sense?
25:26>> It makes sense. And you said you're
25:27you're actually mentioning the company
25:30that you're renting the site out to in
25:33the copy.
25:34>> So So no, not the company. We don't even
25:38know what company we're going to rent
25:39out the site to.
25:40>> We're creating our own brand with Rank
25:43and Rent.
25:44>> So Glendale Quality Drywall is like a
25:47brand that I created
25:48>> and I'm writing as if I am the brand. So
25:51with rank and rent, the mentality that
25:53we have is the clients that begin
25:55renting our sites is essentially they're
25:59going to now own two different brands.
26:00So they already have their own brand,
26:02right? They might be Joe's Drywall, but
26:04now they're getting leads from Glendale
26:06Quality Drywall, which is my brand. So
26:08now they're essentially operating two
26:10different brands and getting leads from
26:12both. And uh we kind of treat it as if
26:16every lead that we generate with rank
26:18and rent are our customers. No different
26:20than in a lot of general contractor
26:22industry like you'll subcontract out the
26:24work to other GCs. We're kind of
26:27essentially taking that that kind of
26:29model where we're just renting out our
26:33customers essentially right going back
26:35to the structure. Does that make sense?
26:37>> Yeah, it does make sense. It does make
26:39sense.
26:39>> Yeah. Yeah. How is it is that difficult
26:42to to to explain to the um to the
26:46companies that you're sending the leads
26:48to or it's just like hey if you want
26:49these leads like that's how you got to
26:51do it. You got to act like this is your
26:54brand.
26:55>> Yeah. No, exactly. Um they get it. They
26:59go, you know, at the end of
27:00>> they want the money. They want the
27:01money.
27:02>> They want the money. Exactly. I mean I
27:03go like at the end of the day having two
27:05brands is more powerful than having one
27:06brand.
27:07>> Yeah.
27:08>> It's like a franchise but better. like
27:09you own two different brands, you know,
27:12and my brands are going to be my brand
27:13is like cuz I've been doing SEO for a
27:15while, it's going to be more powerful um
27:17in the SERs because I have keywords in
27:20the name and and all that stuff. So they
27:23they once they understand it, they like
27:26they love the idea because with alo also
27:28with rank and rent, I can begin building
27:30that client different rank and rent
27:32sites targeting different cities
27:34surrounding them. you know, like they
27:36most of these service-based businesses,
27:38they can travel 20, 30 mile radius. So,
27:40again, this is where Rank and Rent truly
27:41shines as well, is that you can start
27:43off with a client paying you $500 a
27:45month because your site's generating
27:47like maybe 10 leads a month. But then,
27:49if it's a good client, they want to
27:51scale, you can start building multiple
27:53different ranking other type other rank
27:55and rent sites targeting other cities
27:57and get that client from like paying you
27:59$500 a month to like two to $3,000 a
28:01month. and then they really understand
28:03that the power and the leverage of uh
28:06owning multiple brands.
28:08>> So, okay, you're starting you're
28:09starting with a city. You're not
28:11building out you you start with a city
28:13and then maybe you'll build out a larger
28:15regional site.
28:16>> Yeah. Regional site or just targeting
28:18just other websites that target other
28:20types of cities nearby.
28:24>> And how important are exact match
28:26domains to your strategy?
28:30>> [clears throat]
28:31>> is it's important. I think it gives you
28:33an edge. Um,
28:34>> so can you give me can you give me yeah
28:36some examples of what what type of EMD
28:39you might use?
28:41>> So a lot of true EMDs are a lot of it's
28:45taken right like Glendale drywall.com
28:48that's probably taken right so I I I add
28:52word in there um as well as you know
28:54GlendalequalityDrywall.com.
28:56So I guess you I guess that's
28:58technically partial exact match, but in
29:02my opinion um just having the city and
29:04the keyword there already kind of gives
29:06you like an advantage from SEO
29:09standpoint cuz most brands do not have
29:12that. Um so yeah.
29:15>> And what pages should every local lead
29:18genen site have? Are there any like
29:20pages that that every one of your sites
29:22has to have?
29:24>> Yeah, for sure. like [clears throat] you
29:26know most local companies they'll build
29:29like five service pages
29:32you know um and I get it that's like the
29:35main services that they want right
29:36that's the main money maker so they just
29:38build five service pages
29:39>> they probably don't even keyword
29:41research
29:42>> no exactly yeah yeah it's they you know
29:45a lot of these sites are built for
29:46utility they're not built with SEO
29:49understanding
29:50>> well yeah they're bu they're built for
29:51people going directly to the site
29:54>> yeah Yeah. Yeah. Like a site you put on
29:57a business card and these are the five
29:58services we do and that's like as far
30:00out as they thought through, right? But
30:03yeah, there's like
30:05>> but the reality is people search for
30:06those services in many different ways
30:08too.
30:09>> Yeah. Exactly. So there's like 15 20
30:12service pages that you could create that
30:15will is eventually generate impressions
30:17and clicks and those pages build
30:20authority to the site over time. Right?
30:22So, for example, like in custom
30:24cabinets, I have pages like custom
30:26cabinets for dental office, custom
30:27cabinets for um studio, and these sound
30:31like pretty insane type of words, but I
30:36under my Google search console like
30:38custom counters for like art studio was
30:42getting clicks the other day that I saw.
30:44>> Doesn't sound insane at all. Doesn't
30:45sound It sounds perfect. Sounds perfect.
30:48>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, maybe you won't
30:51show all these service pages in the
30:53navigational menu, but it's important to
30:56do the keyword research to to target all
30:59these different um pages and and you
31:02know, maybe I'll start with like 20 20
31:0425 services and you're already doing a
31:07lot more than your competition, right?
31:10So, that and then I also build sub city
31:12pages as well, like the main keyword
31:14plus targeting a city nearby. A city
31:18might be 2,000 population city, but no
31:21one's really targeting it. I'll still
31:22rank and I'll that page will still
31:24generate me clicks. Again, this will
31:27create that topical authority, allow me
31:29to rank the homepage for the main
31:31keyword oftent times in many cases even
31:34without bu building external backlinks.
31:37>> So yeah, I want to ask about information
31:39architecture and internal linking. Um
31:42yeah, I I want to ask about that. Uh
31:46I
31:48What was it? Man, I had this I had this
31:49other question basically. Okay, so
31:51you're saying you had um Yeah. So you
31:53have like all these all these service
31:55pages and you know I'll remember the
31:58question when I asked this. So yeah,
31:59what what does your information
32:00architecture look like and what does
32:02your internal links look like? So could
32:04you give like an example of of what um
32:08yeah like what the different subfolders
32:10look like and how you're linking to
32:12different pages?
32:14Yeah, with you know with with a blog
32:17with 2,000 articles like you think a
32:19little bit more about uhformational
32:22architecture but in my opinion with like
32:23these rank and rent sites I like to keep
32:25it pretty simple. I don't create too
32:27much subdirectory folders and whatnot.
32:31It's just pure pages that's all coming
32:34like homepage.
32:35>> They're all off the root domain is what
32:36you're saying.
32:36>> Yeah, from the root domain. Um,
32:41and just building, you know, these
32:42service pages and subsidy pages all from
32:45the root domain. So, it'll be like
32:47glendalequalitydrywall.com/
32:51popcorn ceiling removal. And those are
32:54all different service pages that all
32:56target Glendale, California, because
32:57this is a site that I'm trying to really
32:59trying to rank in Glendale, California.
33:01But then I also have sub city pages
33:04where glenderquality drywall.com
33:08pasadena-cal
33:10and this will be targeting these
33:13surrounding cities. Um in terms of
33:15internal link structure um
33:18>> yeah because you said you said you're
33:20funneling page rank so you're funneling
33:21authority to to more correct you're
33:23going up the chain.
33:25>> Correct. Correct. Correct. So yeah,
33:27that's that's essentially what I'm
33:28trying to do with the internal linkage
33:29structure. All those um external pages
33:32are linking a link backlink back to the
33:34homepage, not the other way around.
33:38>> Wow. I don't like I don't like
33:39>> So your homepage is targeting the most
33:41lucrative keyword.
33:43>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
33:44>> Yeah.
33:45>> Uh-huh. Um and then and basically like
33:48all these subpages will link back to the
33:50the homepage and and and
33:53so so yeah, what will be the call to
33:55action then? the call to action button.
33:57So these subpages are these bottom of
33:58funnel pages or are these like
34:00informational pages. These are all
34:03bottom bottom of the funnel. In fact,
34:05with rank and rent, like pretty much all
34:08the pages are bottom the funnel,
34:09including the homepage, you know, that's
34:12kind of how I look at it. It's like
34:13literally like bottom the funnel, then
34:16it's like a rank and rent site. It's
34:17just like going wide on all bottom of
34:19the funnel keywords.
34:21Now, there are times where I've built
34:23like more medium or top of the funnel
34:26informational type of blogs on a site,
34:28and I think if you're in a super more
34:30competitive uh city niche, I think you
34:34might want to create some of those sites
34:36to get some clicks as well. Um, but in
34:38most instances with rank and rank, like
34:40we want to do the least to get the
34:42maximum output or the result or money,
34:45right? So, I'm always big on doing
34:48enough doing just enough to get the
34:50result as opposed to trying to do
34:52everything for each of these sites
34:53because the power with rank and rent
34:55really comes when you can actually
34:57scale. And so, you want to you want to
35:00be as efficient as possible when you're
35:01scaling these these websites.
35:04And
35:06what is what is one of these bottom what
35:08does one of your bottomunnel SEO pages
35:11look like? Do you have like the same
35:12structure that you use across pages?
35:16So, you know, for example, I mean, it's
35:19very very like
35:23repetitive after a while, right? So,
35:25it's like drywall in Pasadena,
35:27California, drywall in Alhamra,
35:30California, and it like almost kind of
35:31looks like the homepage, but a lot less
35:33effort.
35:34>> Basically, just the top, maybe a quote
35:36form, phone number. Really, call to
35:38action is we really want just is the
35:40phone number. and I have a menu that's
35:42like sticky so the phone number is
35:44always at the top and we just want that
35:46person to call right ultimately um in
35:48terms of the content I mean it it's
35:51pretty basic um AI mostly AI generated
35:56content on the
35:57>> and how do you and how do you um like
36:00yeah how do you what's the context for
36:02linking back to the homepage is just
36:04when you say like we've been doing this
36:06for for this long and when the brand
36:08name just always links to the homepage
36:09is that what it is or something Yeah.
36:11Yeah. The brand name
36:14>> quality drywall has been doing XY Z.
36:17Yeah. And then that that
36:18>> So you'll actually have basically an
36:20internal link to the homepage right
36:22there in the first sentence.
36:23>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
36:25>> Uhhuh.
36:26>> And and um and so yeah, this is the
36:29question that I wanted to ask that I had
36:30forgotten. How do you how do you think
36:32about doorway pages and avoiding things
36:35like that?
36:37Um
36:39well doorway pages essentially what you
36:42mean by that are pages that just go to
36:44another site right
36:45>> pages like you're you're describing so
36:47when you were describing uh um X for
36:51cabinets X for what what was the example
36:53that you were giving
36:54>> cabinets for like dental office
36:57>> yeah cabinets for dental offices
36:59cabinets for kitchens cabinets cabinets
37:01for for uh I other offices and So
37:07basically like what people will do is
37:09they'll have these pages be identical
37:11and and so are you when you're targeting
37:14very similar keywords are you making the
37:17pages the copy really unique?
37:20Yeah. So you know custom cabinets for
37:23dental office right all the H1 H2 H3s
37:28should begin to shift. So H you know I
37:32I'm you know H2 H3 big believer that
37:35that it's important. This is why Google
37:37efficiently scan the headings to
37:40understand what's on the page as opposed
37:42to um scanning the whole page is going
37:44to be more costly for Google. So we want
37:46to make it easy to Google to so like
37:48it'll be like
37:50um different type of cabinets used for a
37:53dental office. So the H3s are going to
37:56completely shift from a cabinet office
37:58or custom cabinets for a garage. The H3s
38:01are going to be different types of
38:03cabinets for a garage. So that's going
38:05to change quite a bit and obviously the
38:06content underneath it is going to
38:08change. So uh the context uh is going to
38:11change depending on the topic. Now with
38:14a subity page that is a little bit more
38:18challenged to make it unique, right?
38:19Because if I have drywall page about
38:21Pasadena or drywall page about um
38:25Glendale, like it's going to be very
38:28quite similar. Uh but I'm still able to
38:31see that my pages are are ranking uh
38:35getting clicks. Um I have a AI content
38:38writer where like I can feed the link of
38:40the Wikipedia page of the city into it
38:43and it'll extract different unique
38:45entities, landmarks, different weather
38:46patterns of that city into the content.
38:48So, we're doing things like that, trying
38:50our best to make each of the content
38:53more unique, uh,
38:55>> unique to the location and unique to to
38:58the actual local service or unique to
39:00the service that's being done.
39:01>> Yeah. And I think another good strategy
39:03that we will we're implementing as well.
39:06Um, again, for more competitive city, I
39:10mean, uh, places, we want to do the
39:13least amount to get the rankings and
39:15that's it. We don't want to overdo it.
39:16But for each of these different location
39:20pages, you could essentially create like
39:22a case study of customers
39:25uh by grabbing maybe different landmarks
39:27like a school. We did drywall for XYZ
39:30school. We did this for like another
39:33establishment for that city and create
39:36sort of like a case study or like a
39:39custom or project detail
39:42>> things like that on these some
39:44>> city. If you can explain like just in
39:46short what does your like AI content
39:48workflow look like?
39:51>> AI content work workflow
39:53>> because yeah you said you're you're
39:54writing a lot of content with AI.
39:56>> Yeah. So I have a AI content writer
39:59where it's using like few different
40:01agents to do keyword research and entity
40:05extraction on the top
40:08100 ranking top like 30 ranking articles
40:12and then it's um using um claude to get
40:17the final output. But by doing the by
40:20stringing together agents before the
40:22output, it's able to produce like far
40:25better output than just using cloud in
40:27of itself. And then just um and that to
40:30me is enough to rank all the maybe the
40:33sub city pages for the homepage. We like
40:36to maybe proofread it a little bit, edit
40:38it. Um especially the first intro
40:40paragraphs and also with the output,
40:44some of it can be fluff. So you got to
40:47be careful there. got to remove fluff or
40:49redundant sections, repetitive sections,
40:53cuz sometimes the AI will talk about one
40:55thing and talk about something very very
40:57similar down below. So, you want to
40:59remove anything that's redundant out of
41:01the article. Um, yeah, you want to make
41:05the article all talk be talking about
41:07different things and you also have to
41:09kind of maybe sometimes reorder the the
41:12content at times. the top of the page,
41:15you want things that are most important
41:17for that topic. So with rank and rent,
41:20it's going to be the main services are
41:21going to be the most important to talk
41:23about near the top of that page. And
41:26then down below on the lower third of
41:29the of the article, you can talk about a
41:31little bit more outside of the main
41:32topic to bring in more unique content
41:35signals such as maybe you talk about
41:37more uh your process of doing drywall or
41:40custom cabinets. you have a unique
41:41process or unique engineering terms that
41:44you can unique type of entities that you
41:46can bring in towards the bottom. Maybe
41:48statistics. Maybe you talk about the
41:50material resist durability or things of
41:52that nature that you can bring in unique
41:55statistics at the bottom of the page.
41:57You can bring in more of these unique
41:59kind of signals um in
42:01>> and you'll write you'll write like this
42:03is how we do it. Even though it like
42:05you'll just write it even before you
42:07have like a company that you're working
42:08with, you'll say this is how Glenn Wall
42:10drywall has been doing this.
42:13>> Correct. Correct.
42:14>> And you say we've been in business for x
42:16many years.
42:17>> Yeah. Yeah. And with that, like once you
42:20do find a client, then you can ask these
42:23questions and get more unique
42:24information from them and put it on the
42:26site. So maybe they you know, maybe they
42:30have 15 years experience. Okay. Well,
42:31you could go update that, right? Do you
42:33have a way of um do you have a way of
42:35like uh updating things really quickly
42:37on sites?
42:39>> Yeah, I just use I have use a click and
42:42drag web builder that I have. I just
42:44update it.
42:45>> Okay. What what are you using?
42:48>> Uh I have my own like rank and rent like
42:51platform dashboard. So it's Yeah.
42:55dashboard. But I I it's all integrated
42:58with the call tracking and the web
42:59builder.
43:00>> What's your What's your CMS?
43:03Uh, it's just a click and it's like very
43:05similar to Weebi or Wix.
43:06>> Uhhuh. Okay, that's cool.
43:08>> Yeah. Yeah. I was like I was thinking I
43:10was thinking how I would do this with
43:11WordPress. I'd probably like have a um a
43:14short code for the amount of time the
43:17business has the the company has been in
43:19business and then you could change that
43:21on the back end and it changes across
43:22the site. I do that with a a phone
43:24number on edward.com. So like if I ever
43:27had like a phone number that gets
43:28spammed, then I can just change it on
43:30the back end in one place. Um yeah,
43:32>> things. Yeah. Uh
43:35>> what is your keyword research look like?
43:38How are how are you doing keyword
43:39research e pay?
43:40>> Yeah, this is a great question. And I
43:42think I think you know with uh with my
43:46blog epay.com like different strategies
43:49with rank and rent maybe other types of
43:52strategies but I like I like the tool
43:54keywords everywhere. It just very basic.
43:58It's like seven bucks a month. Puts the
44:00keyword search volume right in the
44:02search of Google. And I I like kind of
44:06going off of what Google tells me as
44:08opposed to using keyword research tools.
44:11So for example, if um like for example,
44:15tree service is notorious for uh being
44:18difficult to find various different
44:20keywords because there's only so many
44:21services in tree service, right? We're
44:23talking tree removal, tree trimming,
44:24tree pruning, tree cutting, stump
44:27removal. That's it, right? But so how do
44:29you how do we find other types of
44:30keywords that people are actually
44:32searching for that can get you more
44:34clicks than the competition? So yeah,
44:36you basically just go tree trimming
44:39space and start putting different keys
44:43of the alphabet and look at what Google
44:47suggests. So one is like could be um
44:51tree trimming over power lines
44:54and that I would have never known about
44:56that keyword unless I was just in the
44:58Google search bar looking for different
44:59things, right? Um
45:03obviously you can use tools like ah refs
45:05but when you do use that like you just
45:07get bunch of like main keywords anyways
45:10with like different cities. So I I find
45:12that like just using the Google search
45:14bar is more useful. And I also you can
45:16use chat GPT as well or AI list me 100
45:21different keywords for custom cabinets
45:24um or drywall, right? And it'll give you
45:27a 100 different lists and one one is
45:29like home edition drywall. Then you take
45:32home edition drywall and put it in
45:33Google search. But Google search doesn't
45:36have give a suggestion for home edition
45:38drywall. It actually says home
45:39renovation drywall. So boom, right
45:42there. That that's the more better word
45:44to use as a on a page.
45:46>> When you say gives a suggestion, what do
45:48you mean?
45:50>> Start typing it in and then you see what
45:51Google is recommending.
45:53>> What Google is what Google is
45:54autocompleting.
45:55>> Autocomp completing.
45:56>> Yeah.
45:57>> But but sometimes it'll try to fix what
45:59you're typing. So, right. So, if you put
46:01home edition drywall,
46:03like it'll pop up underneath home
46:05renovation drywall.
46:08>> Yeah, that's cool. or when you type in
46:10home, it'll type in home renovation
46:14as opposed to home edition drywall. So,
46:17yeah, we'll just kind of check it with
46:20Google.
46:21>> Yeah, that's that's that's cool. How
46:23often are you looking um as well at
46:25Google Search Console to see keywords
46:28that the site is ranking for and then
46:30being like, "Wow, I had no idea this was
46:31a keyword." And then when when that
46:33happens also, how do you decide when to
46:36create a new page for a keyword versus
46:39actually just adding it to the existing
46:40page that that it's ranking for?
46:44Yeah. So yeah, Google search console is
46:47key. Um gives you a lot of intel. The
46:51other day I was looking at one of my
46:52concrete sites and it was ranking. This
46:54page was ranking get generating clicks.
46:56It was like concrete steps
46:59leveling or I don't know some another
47:01word after concrete steps that made it
47:04very unique and I would have never even
47:06known to write that page or have it even
47:09be worth it to write that page. But I
47:11think my team just found that keyword by
47:15because a chat GPT recommended it and
47:17they just built it and sure enough it's
47:19generating clicks, right? Um,
47:23so I guess
47:25sometimes it's like a gunshot approach.
47:28We just build these pages and as long as
47:30each of these topics are contextually
47:33different enough,
47:35we'll write it. But if the two different
47:38keywords are too contextually similar,
47:41we'll try to combine it. So for example,
47:43it might be cabinet painting and cabinet
47:45refinishing. Those are very contextually
47:47very similar types of topics. So it's,
47:50you know, it's better to probably
47:52combine like cabinet refinishing and
47:54painting and city.
47:57>> Yeah. The way Yeah. I like to think
47:59about it if especially like if the
48:01searcher doesn't know that these are the
48:03same things, you actually could create
48:06two pages for it because you could
48:08imagine like one searcher getting to a
48:10page for this thing and it's the same
48:12thing that they searched, but it's
48:14phrased in a different way and they're
48:16not an expert in the subject matter to
48:18to know that this is the same thing as
48:21what they just searched. And so they
48:22actually might leave the page to look
48:24for something that has their exact
48:26language because they're not experts in
48:28the subject matter.
48:29>> Um that's Yeah.
48:31>> Uh okay. So you you were saying that
48:33you're not do you build links at all? Is
48:36there any link building that you're
48:37really doing or you're just you're just
48:39going up with topical authority going up
48:42the chain with uh right now starting
48:44pages and
48:46>> yeah you know like I used to like build
48:48some PBNs and 11 years ago I was doing
48:51like PBNs and stuff like that and uh
48:54screw PBNs like it's too much effort to
48:58manage. Um, so then I started doing some
49:01guest posts and it's like became really
49:04difficult to tell if the these links
49:06were actually moving the needle or not.
49:08So this this past year this time around
49:10I'm it's like all about bottom of funnel
49:12keywords and like building topical
49:14authority and I'm getting rankings,
49:15right?
49:17>> It's amazing man. It's amazing. I know.
49:21>> Yeah. And I'm not saying backlinks don't
49:23work. there it's clearly you know
49:26ranking factor but it's like then you
49:28look at a lot of like places where you
49:30you're getting or places where people
49:32are getting guest post links and then
49:34you know in the last two years you know
49:36with Google algorithm updates a lot of
49:38the sites have crashed in the traffic
49:41right so it's like then it's like well
49:44will this link even provide juice when
49:46the site itself also tanked in traffic
49:49and it probably does right like it's not
49:51like the algorithm can't be that strict
49:53with it. But uh yeah, right now I'm like
49:56kind of choosing to focus more on
49:58topical authority as opposed to getting
50:00external backlinks. Now the sites that a
50:02lot of sites will rank without external
50:04backlinks. So the sites that are ranking
50:06already generating clicks, generating
50:08traffic, it's on page one of Google,
50:11then I can even build back links from my
50:13sites that I own homepage from those
50:16sites to other sites that might be in a
50:18little bit more tougher or big much
50:19bigger market. And it makes sense too
50:22because if you're in multiple niches,
50:24you can say that these sites are
50:26partners to each other. These companies
50:28are partners to each other.
50:30>> Yeah. Exactly.
50:30>> That's not even black hat. That's like
50:32you just own a bunch of different like
50:34services businesses.
50:36>> Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, I have what
50:40what did the link that I made a
50:42connection? Um, I think it was like a
50:45window site and oh, it's like Windows
50:48and I created a section on the homepage
50:50about soundproof windows and then I said
50:55we also own a drywall company that can
50:57provide soundproof drywall as well and
51:00then now I provided that context and I
51:03created a backlink from that homepage of
51:06that Windows site to my one of my
51:08drywall sites.
51:10So, okay, walk me walk me through what
51:12like the first 30 days of of making a
51:15site.
51:17Yeah, you you have the niche cho chosen
51:19like I I want to actually know what
51:22pages
51:23I mean, you were talking about that. So,
51:25you you're putting up just these like
51:26hyper bottom of funnel pages. You're not
51:28really building any links. Maybe you're
51:30linking to the site from I'm I'm trying
51:33to talk this out for somebody who's
51:35listening and wants a step-by-step
51:36process of what to do with the new site.
51:39Um, so yeah.
51:40>> Yeah. And uh, yeah. I think Edward that
51:43this why your shows are great because
51:45you ask like you ask the best best
51:47questions, you know, and you've been
51:50building SEO businesses a long time, so
51:52you know what questions to ask. So yeah,
51:54exactly. So first 30 days, well the most
51:57important first step is like how to find
51:59the right types of city and the niches
52:01to go into. um we which we talked about
52:04earlier which is you know um doing the
52:07analysis finding city and niche that
52:10have at least 100,000 population is like
52:12a safe bet um and like kind of weaker
52:15sites target that. Um another thing I
52:19always harp on is don't just start with
52:22one rank and rent site build 10. I've
52:24never seen anybody not start making
52:25money when they build 10 sites, you
52:28know, and these sites take about three,
52:30four months to start generating leads.
52:32So, you won't you don't want to just sit
52:33on one. You want to get 10 out as soon
52:35as possible. Um, and with the 10, the
52:38first steps are, you know, getting the
52:40domain, partial match domain, city and
52:42main keyword in the domain. Um, build
52:46out the homepage. Um, make sure the
52:49hierarchy of H1, H2, H3 is correct. Uh
52:54H1 at the top is going to have the brand
52:56name and the main keywords. H2 is going
52:59to be like maybe the main
53:02residential services for example. And
53:04then all the different residential
53:06services you'll list with a picture um
53:10with the keyword of those services in
53:13H3.
53:15And then just the same with commercial
53:17and then just build out the rest of the
53:19homepage. Um, I like to also add like a
53:21FAQ section at the bottom of the
53:23homepage.
53:24Um, and then you just start building,
53:27you know, 10, I would start with like 15
53:29service pages because most your
53:31competition only has like five. Um, and
53:34then maybe 10, 15, 20 subity pages.
53:38That's about 30 pages.
53:40And then you move on.
53:41>> What is a sub city page?
53:43>> Uh, just the main keyword plus a
53:46neighboring city.
53:49>> Wow. And you and how many of those are
53:50you making?
53:51>> So like drywall Downey California,
53:54drywall um Alejandra California and
53:58maybe 20 of those subity pages.
54:00>> And so yeah, so then you'd actually have
54:03like you'd be really heavily talking
54:05about the location and how drywall is
54:07different, doing drywall is different in
54:09each location and
54:12as best you can um as best you can. But
54:15most of these pages realistically they
54:17end up looking pretty much the same.
54:19>> Well, looking the same and sounding the
54:21same is different because like I use I
54:23use the same lots of websites, including
54:25a lot of my sites use the same page
54:27templates. And I mean, think about a
54:29blog. A blog is literally just the same
54:31page template over and over and over
54:33again. It's the content on the page.
54:35It's the images on the page that that
54:37make it different. Um, and and so then
54:41you so you have all these pages and are
54:43they are do you have a hub page for them
54:44or are they all literally just in your
54:46footer and and and in your you have like
54:48a drop- down navigation with different
54:50categories or like how top navigation?
54:53How are you doing that?
54:55I look at the homepage as a hub page.
54:58That makes sense,
54:59>> you know, and rank like Yeah, it's like
55:01because we're not A blog is going to
55:03talk about different topics like you
55:05might talk about small business loans
55:08and uh short-term lease rentals or
55:11whatever like right. But with with a
55:13rank and rent, the main topic we're
55:15talking about and only want to talk
55:16about is keyword city drywall Glendel.
55:20That's it. So that's the main hub and
55:22then all these sub all these other pages
55:25are just linking back to the homepage.
55:27That's it. I don't create internal links
55:29from the footer or anything. Um
55:33because I'm the believer I don't want
55:34the link juices from the homepage going
55:37to other pages. I want the link juices
55:39from the other pages going to the
55:40homepage.
55:43And
55:43>> but but you are linking these aren't
55:45orphan pages. You're linking to the
55:47subpages from your homepage.
55:50Well, I have I have it from the
55:54navigation. There's links to the sub
55:56city pages.
55:57>> Okay. So, they're not they're not orphan
55:59pages is what was what I'm trying to
56:00get.
56:01>> Yeah. Yeah. There's a connection there
56:03in the
56:03>> they're being linked to from they're
56:04they're being internally linked to from
56:06somewhere.
56:07>> Yeah.
56:08>> Uh-huh.
56:09>> Well, from the navigation.
56:11>> Yeah.
56:11>> In the menu.
56:12>> Yeah. Yeah.
56:12>> Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Like if
56:14you were to take your if you were to
56:16take your homepage and put it in
56:17Screaming Frog, Screaming Frog would be
56:18able to get to all these subpages
56:20because they would be linked to
56:23>> Yeah. Um
56:25>> so
56:26uh
56:29what I was going to ask you one more
56:32question, but I can't remember it. I
56:33won't ask you. I'll remember it in a
56:34second. Um what about images? Are you
56:37just doing AI generated images, stock
56:39photos? How are you how are you handling
56:41images?
56:43Yeah, a few different strategies. I
56:45mean, AI generated images is one. Um,
56:50there's places where you can get like
56:52more stock free uh copyright free
56:55images.
56:56>> What do you use? Huh?
56:58>> What do you use?
56:59>> Um, Pixels, Unsplash,
57:02>> Exob Bay is one. Um, you can go to I
57:07think Bing or whatever and search for
57:09like non-copyright images.
57:12Um, you can do a little bit more gray
57:14hat and just grab images that
57:17you'll never get caught. Uh, but
57:20>> how do you tell? Because
57:23>> um, you know, sometimes these images
57:25belonging to like big uh or like
57:31companies that
57:33I like to go on Bing as opposed to
57:35Google. Um, sometimes it might just be a
57:38display of a custom countertop from like
57:40a a supplier or some of these kind of
57:44different kind of companies that you
57:45know like they would not really care,
57:48you know, like there's like pamphlets or
57:51uh even like almost like websites that
57:54catalog all these like different
57:56products,
57:58right? So, yeah, talk about Google
58:00business profile. This is Yeah, the lots
58:03of people have questions about it. So
58:05yeah, you were talking about this
58:06before, but just how important is GBP to
58:10the rank and rent model?
58:13>> Yeah, I mean GBP definitely can increase
58:16the amount of leads by 50%, sometimes
58:19even more. Uh GBPs definitely help you
58:24get more leads. But again, even without
58:26GBPs in rank and rent, when especially
58:29when you go into a little bit higher
58:30ticket industries,
58:33people got to understand like if you
58:35just generate
58:3710 15 leads for a company in a month and
58:41they close at 30%.
58:44And each job is worth like $5,000.
58:47If they close three jobs, that's $15,000
58:50of revenue. And if they can just pay
58:52you, most companies are cool pay paying
58:54you 7% commission. So 7 7% of 15 grand
58:58is already $1,000 a month. That company
59:01would be gladly paying you. So let's say
59:04you decide GBP is kind of pain or you I
59:07don't want to do GBPs. Well, you're
59:09going to have to now compensate for that
59:11by just building more websites for that
59:12singular client that targets different
59:15cities. perhaps maybe that targets more
59:18specific keywords for that client. Um,
59:22for example, like I have a painting guy
59:25that does like a very special type of
59:27painting called lime wash painting. is a
59:29very high-end type of painting service
59:31and I have a whole, you know, if you
59:33target a whole site about linewash
59:35painting, you could rank a site in a big
59:38city like Los Angeles and because it's
59:40so so hyperargeted, such a unique
59:43service, even without the GBP, you're
59:45definitely going to get a bunch of
59:46quality leads for that. Right now, with
59:50that being said, GBPs, we still try to
59:53get them uh if we can. And again
59:58um
1:00:00we have different strategies of getting
1:00:01them as well.
1:00:03>> What are the strategies? Can you share?
1:00:06>> Well um
1:00:09these are what other people have done
1:00:10and say that
1:00:12>> dude dude dude I do that all the time on
1:00:14this show when I'm sharing a black hat
1:00:16like I like that I do this. Here's what
1:00:19this is. This is crazy. Other people are
1:00:21doing this in SEO. This is a disclaimer
1:00:23by the way. I do not advise you to do
1:00:25this. You should not do this. Caution
1:00:27will appear on the screen. Caution comes
1:00:29up. Don't do this. Disclaimer. Do not do
1:00:32this. This is what other people are
1:00:34doing.
1:00:35>> Other people have done.
1:00:36>> Yeah. So, so this is so that your
1:00:38disclaimer is you're saying don't do
1:00:39this. This is what other people have
1:00:42done.
1:00:43>> Yeah. This is what other people have
1:00:44done. So, with the video verification is
1:00:48kind of how GBPs are verified today. It
1:00:50used to be postcard. postcard meant like
1:00:52you needed to uh pick an address and
1:00:54they will send you a fivedigit or a
1:00:56postcard with like a five-digit code,
1:00:57enter the code, boom, it's verified. Um
1:01:00that that could get at scale unknowing
1:01:01too because you actually need a location
1:01:03where somebody can receive that code
1:01:05code for you. Anyways, today's video
1:01:07verification though. So when you try to
1:01:09verify a service based business, they
1:01:11make you shoot a video from your mobile
1:01:13phone and to show legitimacy of the
1:01:17business that you own the business,
1:01:19right? Uh so you just show different
1:01:24things in the video to verify. So what
1:01:26what they're looking for are uh get a
1:01:29vehic a vehicle. You can buy like a car
1:01:32magnet for like $20. Print out the logo
1:01:35of the business and the phone number of
1:01:37the business. Place it on the vehicle.
1:01:40Have tools. One thing to keep in mind is
1:01:42it's an AI reviewing these videos, not a
1:01:46human. There's no way they could staff
1:01:48it with human. there's there just be too
1:01:50many like this is GBPs across the world
1:01:53right there's 200 million businesses on
1:01:55GB Google map so it's AI so we have to
1:01:59just pass the AI test essentially so
1:02:02it's look so you want to get some tools
1:02:04in the vehicle again it's been tested
1:02:07with trucks or just like a regular
1:02:09vehicle it can also work fine and when I
1:02:12say tools you can get tool toolbox for
1:02:16like $60 from like Home Depot and then
1:02:18In the vehicle, you want to show
1:02:20yourself opening the vehicle, entering
1:02:21the vehicle, turning the vehicle on.
1:02:23Show some business cards, 10, 20 bucks
1:02:26of the logo, business name, NAP
1:02:30essentially, right? Address of the
1:02:32business, phone number of the business,
1:02:34clearly show it in the with your phone
1:02:37so the AI can detect it. Um, that's
1:02:41essentially it. I mean, it's better to
1:02:44just do it with a vehicle as opposed to
1:02:46like some people are going into the
1:02:47vehicle then trying to go into a home
1:02:50and trying to show a home office. You
1:02:52don't We're finding out that you don't
1:02:55want to do all that because it kind of
1:02:56confuses the AI. Um because now if
1:02:59you're walking into a building now, it's
1:03:01going to think that you're a location
1:03:02based business which we're not. We're
1:03:04service based. We don't have a physical
1:03:05[clears throat] location, right? So, you
1:03:07want to just do it with a vehicle. Um,
1:03:11there's a few other things like you want
1:03:12to turn on precise location on your
1:03:14phone. Uh, because there is an IP
1:03:17tracking thing that that's happening
1:03:19there. So, you want to turn that off and
1:03:21and shoot these videos. And yeah, you
1:03:23said turn it off.
1:03:24>> Turn it off.
1:03:25>> Mhm.
1:03:26>> Turn it off. Um, and it's been working.
1:03:29Yeah, we've been verifying. And then
1:03:31sometimes it doesn't work.
1:03:33You just delete it. Delete that listing
1:03:36and start start over. and then then
1:03:39it'll go through. So it's again it's not
1:03:41a Google is not a perfect system. Um and
1:03:47you just restart it and then boom it
1:03:49goes through the next time
1:03:50>> and so then retry it you'll you'll retry
1:03:54it with the same address or a different
1:03:55address.
1:03:56>> It's a great question. Um same address
1:03:59>> and a diff the same name. Is everything
1:04:01the same? You just delete it and try it
1:04:03and try it again with the same
1:04:05everything.
1:04:06>> Yeah, we've done Yes, done that. Um,
1:04:09couple things you want. We're using G
1:04:12Suite. I believe it increases trust. G
1:04:14Suite email. Uh,
1:04:16>> I think so too.
1:04:18>> Yeah. And And you want to connect This
1:04:20is like very Yeah. You want to connect
1:04:22your Google Search Console with the G
1:04:24Suite, Google Analytics with the website
1:04:27as well. We want to create that proof
1:04:29that we actually own the website. Um,
1:04:32and yeah, I think
1:04:33>> Are you using you're using Google
1:04:35Workspace for emails
1:04:37>> or if I want to get the Google Map
1:04:39listing? Yeah.
1:04:41$8 a month.
1:04:44Yeah.
1:04:46Um, I think also obviously if you search
1:04:49for the brand, your brand, like you
1:04:51should have some social media pages up
1:04:54and some citations. I don't even do like
1:04:56a lot of citations anymore. Um just like
1:04:58some main ones.
1:05:01>> But you So yeah, you said you're you're
1:05:02setting up socials for all of the
1:05:04websites.
1:05:05>> Yeah, we try
1:05:06>> and putting up a few posts.
1:05:08>> Yeah.
1:05:09>> Uhhuh. And uh how And yeah, so by the
1:05:12way, yeah, disclaimer, we don't
1:05:14recommend doing any of the stuff that we
1:05:16just said.
1:05:17>> Um not recommended it. And also I'll say
1:05:20I will say some of the times I do I I am
1:05:23sharing very black hat things that other
1:05:25people are doing and I'm seeing other
1:05:27people are doing them and I'm really not
1:05:28I'm not doing those things. Like for
1:05:30example I talk about I' I've done a
1:05:32bunch of episodes on how people are
1:05:33doing DMCA takedowns. I have no interest
1:05:36in doing fake DMCA takedowns. I have
1:05:38zero interest in doing that.
1:05:40>> That's I'm not into all of that.
1:05:42>> Yeah. Um
1:05:44>> but but it is important it is important
1:05:46to know like what's going on in the SEO
1:05:48landscape like because it just get it
1:05:50makes you a better SEO.
1:05:52>> How important um or how do re how do
1:05:55reviews affect lead quality and
1:05:57conversion rates and what do you do for
1:05:59reviews when you're when you've just
1:06:01started the website?
1:06:04So reviews are only become an actual
1:06:06thing if you get the GBP,
1:06:09right?
1:06:10Um, so
1:06:14again, I have plenty of sites with no
1:06:15reviews with the website. Like I think
1:06:18people under people overestimate how
1:06:22customers behave online.
1:06:25What I'm trying to say is there's
1:06:28sometimes like customers that are
1:06:29calling and like I have no reviews. Like
1:06:32how could they even call my site, right?
1:06:34>> No, dude. But dude, it's true. I mean,
1:06:37you know what? I'll tell you exactly
1:06:38what it is.
1:06:40It's you actually took the time to
1:06:42create a page for exactly what this
1:06:45searcher put into Google
1:06:48>> or put into chachi pt whatever you
1:06:51actually have the you are speaking their
1:06:54exact language
1:06:56>> and it and it's and it really feels as a
1:06:58searcher oh my god this business
1:07:00understands me. Yeah. And that's the
1:07:03power of the bottom of the funnel
1:07:05keywords
1:07:05>> and and with actually targeting keywords
1:07:08>> because when you because like like you
1:07:10said when you use the keyword in the
1:07:12first sentence
1:07:13>> it it really is like
1:07:15>> it's really big.
1:07:17>> Yeah. Yeah. Which is why I I like the
1:07:19course that you have because I from my
1:07:23experience and making money with SEO
1:07:25over the last 11 years like bottom of
1:07:27the funnel keywords they are the most
1:07:29important. they are the biggest needle
1:07:31movers and I like how you made a whole
1:07:33thing about focusing on that because it
1:07:36is the most important and uh uh you
1:07:39should we should never lose sight of it.
1:07:41I mean I can't tell you the amount of
1:07:42money and time I wasted trying to target
1:07:44like top of the funnel keywords and just
1:07:46AI overview came in and just wrecked all
1:07:48that traffic anyways wasted countless
1:07:52thousands of dollars creating these huge
1:07:55articles and it all got wiped out. the
1:07:58skyscraper technique is done. Don't like
1:08:00don't get me wrong, I used to be I used
1:08:02to try the skyscraper technique too. I
1:08:05used to mess around with it.
1:08:06>> Like uh yeah. Um and and actually a
1:08:09misconception I think that a lot of
1:08:11people have about bottom offunnel
1:08:12keywords is that they're all longtail
1:08:14keywords and that's not the case at all.
1:08:16>> Like a lot of people don't understand
1:08:18that.
1:08:19>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
1:08:21>> Yeah. Um all right, let's talk about
1:08:23monetization and selling leads. Super
1:08:26important topic. This is really like I'm
1:08:28trying to make this episode just the
1:08:29full like like master rank and rent
1:08:33plan, masterclass rank and rent. Like
1:08:35that's what I want this this episode to
1:08:37be. I'm trying to make make this that.
1:08:39Um, so do you prefer prefer uh renting
1:08:44the website, charging per lead, or
1:08:46taking a revenue share? You talked about
1:08:48this a bit at the beginning.
1:08:51>> Yeah. So there's Yeah, there there's
1:08:53three uh monetization models. Um, I
1:08:57think I think for most people getting to
1:09:0110K per month or 15K per month with rank
1:09:04and rent is the most important thing to
1:09:06do first. That's going to be
1:09:08life-changing thing for you. Uh, cuz you
1:09:10can walk away from your 9 to5, right?
1:09:13So, in order to get to 10 15k per month,
1:09:16you know, like you want to do flat fee
1:09:18in my opinion. It's the most
1:09:20predictable. It's the most uh Yeah, it's
1:09:23the most predictable and stable. Um,
1:09:27so how do we get to flat fee? Well, I
1:09:30I'm I'm the uh mindset that I don't
1:09:33deserve to get paid by a business owner
1:09:35if I'm not delivering results. And by
1:09:37results, I mean real leads that it's
1:09:39converting, that they're closing, that
1:09:40they're making money with, right? So, we
1:09:42just have to prove and show that we're
1:09:45we can do that for a business. So,
1:09:47initially, you know, it's a relationship
1:09:49building phase. You know, the analogy I
1:09:51like to use is that you're not going to
1:09:54go on a first date with a girl and ask
1:09:56to for her to marry you on the first
1:09:58date, right? There's like a little bit
1:09:59of cording that goes on. And the same
1:10:01thing here with rank and rent. We're
1:10:04going to build the value first. So,
1:10:05we'll take the time to build and rank
1:10:08these sites. Might take us three months,
1:10:10but once the site is ranked, we'll see
1:10:12the leads starting to come in. And you
1:10:15can either forward those leads, forward
1:10:17those phone calls unannounced to a
1:10:19business owner with the whispered
1:10:21message, which I've pretty much done, or
1:10:23also I also teach uh where you can warm
1:10:26hand off the lead as well. So you take
1:10:29the lead yourself and not everybody can
1:10:31do this because a lot of people are like
1:10:32working a 9 to5 um and they can't take
1:10:35calls during the day and stuff like
1:10:36that. Then you're just going to forward
1:10:37the leads unannounced to a business
1:10:39owner with a whisper message. But if you
1:10:41can take the calls, it can be quite
1:10:43powerful. You take the calls as a re
1:10:44almost acting as like a receptionist.
1:10:47Hey, what are you looking to get done?
1:10:48Oh, I need a concrete driveway. When do
1:10:50you need it done by? Where are you
1:10:51located? Oh, cool. My team will reach
1:10:54back out to you. You take the customer
1:10:56information. You now look up various uh
1:10:58concrete companies in that area and call
1:11:00them up. And here is like a key to this.
1:11:04Like you want to sound like a customer
1:11:08as long as possible. You don't want to
1:11:10call them cold and say, "Hey, I'm a
1:11:13digital marketer. I'm a SEO lead genen.
1:11:15I have these leads for you." That's the
1:11:17last thing you want to say, right? So,
1:11:19you go, "Hey, Mr. Business owner, like,
1:11:21do you guys do concrete driveways?" "Oh,
1:11:23cool. You do? What's your guys's
1:11:25availability?" "Oh, we're we we're
1:11:27available like, you know, like we're
1:11:30available right now." Awesome. So, I
1:11:32have uh I have this guy that needs a
1:11:35concrete driveway. I'm going to give you
1:11:37their information. this is their name,
1:11:39phone number, uh this is what they want
1:11:41to get done. This is where they're
1:11:42located. If you can reach back out to
1:11:44them, I' I'd highly appreciate it. Yeah,
1:11:47we we'll do that. Absolutely. Okay. But
1:11:50also, by the way, I can also get get a
1:11:54few other customers for concrete
1:11:56driveways. Do you guys have availability
1:11:58to handle more customers?
1:12:00Yes, we do. Okay, cool. I like to just
1:12:03kind of keep sending some customers your
1:12:05way. What I am looking for is somebody,
1:12:08a concrete driveway company that I can
1:12:10work with long term where I can keep
1:12:13sending you these customers and if these
1:12:15leads work out uh and you guys were to
1:12:18close some of these jobs, I like to get
1:12:19paid some commissions. Is that something
1:12:22that you'd be interested in? So, yeah,
1:12:24like if you get us these customers and
1:12:26if we close them, yeah, like we'll we'll
1:12:28give you some commission. So, that's
1:12:30kind of how you can start that
1:12:31relationship. Same with like sending
1:12:33leads with a whisper message. talk about
1:12:36how you set up the whisper messages and
1:12:38and yeah like uh just give people just a
1:12:40step by step for that.
1:12:43>> Yeah. So
1:12:45uh under my like dashboard you can just
1:12:49buy any phone number with any area code
1:12:52in the US or you can buy numbers in uh
1:12:56>> um it's at dashboard.ay.com eay.com.
1:13:01Um, and once you buy the number, each
1:13:04phone number is like $10 a month. Um, it
1:13:08records every call, so you can hear the
1:13:10recording of every call that comes
1:13:12through.
1:13:13You can attach a whisper message. So, a
1:13:15whisper message, you can just type in in
1:13:17in the settings, this lead was sent to
1:13:20you by eBay, or this lead was sent to
1:13:22you by Edward. And that thing is going
1:13:24to play every time they pick up the
1:13:26phone.
1:13:28Um, there's a few other features.
1:13:29>> It's like an AI voice that just says it
1:13:31right there. Uhhuh. And then and then so
1:13:33it's like, yeah, this lead was sent to
1:13:35you by eBay and and then the lead comes
1:13:37on and says, "Hey, like I need
1:13:40drywalling."
1:13:41>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
1:13:45Yeah. um you start the relationship on a
1:13:49commission like cuz I mean you're
1:13:51removing all the risks for the business
1:13:53owner and in the first month or two you
1:13:56there's a little bit of follow-up
1:13:57happening. I also ask if they're
1:13:59interested, hey, if I sent you 10 leads,
1:14:01how many of these do you think you can
1:14:03close? Now they're kind of interested
1:14:06because like they don't want to tell you
1:14:07a goofy goofy number, right? So they'll
1:14:09say like 30%. In most industry, these
1:14:12businesses should be able to close like
1:14:1330%. Right? If they tell you 10%, okay,
1:14:16well, like maybe we we're not going to
1:14:18be a good fit, right? Um, you you you
1:14:21what I like about Rank and R is like you
1:14:23start to get more and more leverage in
1:14:25the conversation the more the longer you
1:14:27start sending these leads cuz now they
1:14:30start to feel like they don't want to
1:14:31lose you to their competitor. So then
1:14:33after a month or two of sending them
1:14:36like real leads, maybe they pay you some
1:14:39commission on some of the jobs they
1:14:40close, but then it's much easier to then
1:14:42transition that conversation to, hey,
1:14:44Mr. Business, I've been generating you
1:14:4510 15 leads per month. Like each lead
1:14:49is, by the way, I al I also have a lead
1:14:51value calculator. So, if you get the
1:14:54average value of a customer and their
1:14:56close rate and and they're willing to
1:14:58pay you like 7% commission, you can then
1:15:00calculate the value of every lead,
1:15:02whether that's $40 or $60 per lead. So,
1:15:05if you're generating 10 leads on average
1:15:08per month, then that site's easily worth
1:15:10$600 a month to that business owner. And
1:15:14uh and the math just breaks it down
1:15:16right there. So, that closing that
1:15:17business owner after a month or two to a
1:15:19flat fee, it becomes really simple. How
1:15:22often do you just sell the the websites
1:15:24that you make?
1:15:27>> Um, not not I have not done that. Not
1:15:31really. Cuz like how do you even value
1:15:33the website? Most business owners don't
1:15:36have like cash laying around like that.
1:15:38Um, I'd rather just make money on a
1:15:40monthly basis.
1:15:42>> Yeah. What are you supposed to do not go
1:15:44into that market again?
1:15:46>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And like how what
1:15:49am I supposed to charge? Should I charge
1:15:51like, you know, $1,000 a month, which is
1:15:53what that site would have made over a
1:15:55year?
1:15:57Even that's 12 grand. A lot of business
1:15:59owners don't have like that kind of
1:16:01money laying around. And uh even if it's
1:16:0412 grand, if I would have kept it, I
1:16:05would have made um money on that $1,000
1:16:08a month in year two, year three. So,
1:16:11it's it's kind of hard to value these
1:16:12sites once you especially once you got a
1:16:14good client on hand. Um, and what what
1:16:17contract terms uh like protect protect
1:16:21you? What stops what's especially for
1:16:24businesses where it's like just things
1:16:26that happen regularly? Um, how do you
1:16:29stop the clients from taking or sorry,
1:16:33not the clients. How do you stop the the
1:16:36companies from taking your your clients
1:16:38and taking your leads?
1:16:41Not leads, but the clients. Yeah.
1:16:43So here here's what's kind of
1:16:45interesting about this rank and rent
1:16:47model is that it's like most deals I
1:16:51don't need a contract. Um it's like on a
1:16:54handshake basis because ultimately I own
1:16:56the website. I own the phone lines. I
1:16:58control where the these phone calls and
1:17:00these leads go to it. It's been a case
1:17:03where the company that I'm working with,
1:17:05they're the ones that want to make a
1:17:06contract with me to make sure that I
1:17:08don't start working with their
1:17:09competitor and I they won't exp
1:17:14then then yeah, you're going to go
1:17:15somewhere else.
1:17:17>> Yeah, exactly. Um, so that's essentially
1:17:20it. And maybe if you do a flat feed,
1:17:22maybe they want a contract, but again,
1:17:25it's not really necessary. Again, you
1:17:28can if you want, but I find that in this
1:17:30business it's not most of the time it
1:17:32hasn't even been needed cuz I can I
1:17:36Yeah, if they don't pay me, right,
1:17:38ultimately it's about getting paid,
1:17:39right? So, if they don't pay me, I can
1:17:42go find somebody else and start sending
1:17:43the leads um to their competitors. So,
1:17:47um [clears throat]
1:17:49yeah, I think that's that's the ultimate
1:17:51leverage anyway. um a co a contractor is
1:17:55not going to change that. If they if
1:17:57they're broke that month or something
1:17:58happened, they can't pay me, a
1:18:00contractor is not going to force them to
1:18:02to pay me, right? If if I stop the leads
1:18:05and start sending it to another company,
1:18:07then that might force their hand to
1:18:09okay, we got to pay pay ASAP, right? So,
1:18:12um that's the checks and balance there.
1:18:15>> And how are you how are you scaling
1:18:17these? And then when do you like is
1:18:19there a point where you're just like,
1:18:20"Yeah, I've kind of put everything into
1:18:23this site and I've scaled it as much as
1:18:24it can go and then you're just like,
1:18:26yeah, I got to focus on something else."
1:18:29>> Yeah. So, I mean, once the site ranks
1:18:30for like the main keyword um with the
1:18:33homepage on page one near the top of
1:18:36page one, I mean, I pretty much leave
1:18:37that site alone and move on to the next
1:18:39site cuz you cuz you're just targeting a
1:18:42spec a very specific location with a
1:18:45domain. So, it's like what are you going
1:18:46to do? Like how are you going to get
1:18:47into another location?
1:18:49>> Exactly. Exactly.
1:18:51>> Yeah, that makes sense. Um all right, I
1:18:53have two questions left. You you are
1:18:55awesome. This this is such a good
1:18:57episode. Like uh yeah, I'm I'm so hyped
1:18:59about this. Uh all right, two questions
1:19:02and and these ones are about mistakes.
1:19:04Um so first is is for you. What what was
1:19:08your most expensive rank and rent
1:19:11mistake?
1:19:14>> Um great question.
1:19:17most expensive rank and rent mistake.
1:19:23It's uh
1:19:26when I didn't have the right team and
1:19:28the right process dialed like just
1:19:30starting to get more and more lazy over
1:19:32time building sites that let's see what
1:19:36I can get away with like building just
1:19:38throwing sites out there like the
1:19:40shotgun approach and like not getting
1:19:42detailed on the content and just
1:19:44slacking off.
1:19:46uh I would say was costly because these
1:19:50those sites tended to not rank that well
1:19:52and not produce results like long-term.
1:19:55I've also done experimental type of
1:19:58things of like getting bunch of
1:20:00backlinks from like link generation kind
1:20:03of services
1:20:06uh where seemingly you were getting like
1:20:08real links from other real sites but it
1:20:11would shoot up the rankings for some of
1:20:13the rank and rent but then the rankings
1:20:14would come crashing down. So uh so
1:20:18anything that's kind of automated I have
1:20:20to be careful.
1:20:23um nothing beats just putting in the
1:20:27quality pages up and also like I'm back
1:20:30links is more or less if you're not
1:20:31careful with backlinks they've kind of
1:20:33hurt the performance of the site so I
1:20:36much rather just kind of focus on on
1:20:38page topical authority targeting bottom
1:20:40ofunnel keywords and doing a really good
1:20:42job of writing really good content on it
1:20:45with content not just wall of text but
1:20:48content that where H2s and H3s make
1:20:51sense and we're going a little bit more
1:20:53in depth on that topic.
1:20:55>> And it's really it's really cool too cuz
1:20:57you said like you're not building links
1:20:59to these sites and even if you're not I
1:21:02think you said you're not even sometimes
1:21:04you're not even linking to them from any
1:21:05domains but you just by targeting the
1:21:08right bottom ofunnel keywords within 3
1:21:10to four months you're ranking and
1:21:12generating leads.
1:21:14>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um, one thing I
1:21:18want to test too is like what would
1:21:21happen if I created like 10 YouTube
1:21:23video because some of these sites I
1:21:24created like one YouTube video targeting
1:21:27that keyword, city keyword and uh
1:21:30linking to my site. So what happens if
1:21:33you create 10, 15, 20 YouTube videos
1:21:36targeting all these different keywords
1:21:38on YouTube and linking back to your rank
1:21:40and run site. Let's say you get even
1:21:42some bots going to your site from
1:21:44YouTube or even some clicks even. I can
1:21:47see potential potential in that kind of
1:21:49strategy as well.
1:21:51>> Dude, I'm thinking about I'm thinking
1:21:52about ways that you could really scale
1:21:54these into like some billion dollar
1:21:56company. like I like talking to you, it
1:21:59gets it makes me really excited about
1:22:01SEO because I like I I I'm hearing this
1:22:04and I'm hearing that like everyone is
1:22:06making so much money and and I'm just
1:22:08like let's take it another level like
1:22:09and so like something that I could
1:22:11imagine is you have these sites that are
1:22:13ranking
1:22:14>> and then and then you this is this is
1:22:16what this is what I would probably do. I
1:22:18would probably create a real brand and
1:22:21then take and then create um basically
1:22:25create pages for all the keywords. So
1:22:27like you have some you have a rank and
1:22:29rent site. It's ranking for all these
1:22:32high intent keywords. I'm going to
1:22:34create a a real brand that sounds like a
1:22:36real brand. Something like Joe's
1:22:38Plumbing or something like that actually
1:22:39sounds like a real brand that can
1:22:41actually uh be national or like that can
1:22:45that can really be huge, right? Um, and
1:22:47then I'm going to put out a I'm going to
1:22:49I'm going to basically 301 redirect
1:22:52every page from the rank and rent site
1:22:54that is ranking to this like real brand
1:22:57which has like the exact same um pages
1:23:00on it except it's, you know, a different
1:23:02company name. You've just changed out
1:23:03basically like the company name and the
1:23:05contact information. And then I'm going
1:23:07to put out a bunch of press releases
1:23:08saying that this real brand acquired
1:23:11this site which you just 301 redirected
1:23:14to this new brand. And then I'm going to
1:23:16start investing in I'm going to start um
1:23:20uh diversifying and so I'm going to have
1:23:24like social accounts that are active.
1:23:25I'm going to hire people who are posting
1:23:27on on social. I'm going to I'm going to
1:23:28have a YouTube and have an Instagram.
1:23:30I'm going to have a Tik Tok. I'm going
1:23:31to be be using my social media strategy
1:23:33that's allowed me to grow to hundreds of
1:23:35thousands of people on Tik Tok and
1:23:37Instagram and uh and all these other
1:23:40platforms. And and but then you said you
1:23:43have other cities. So, you're doing this
1:23:45for other cities now. And this is where
1:23:46it can get really crazy because now you
1:23:48can start going after. So if you
1:23:50especially if you're staying in a niche
1:23:51like plumbing or whatever the niche is
1:23:53cuz now you can you can get into you can
1:23:57get into so many
1:24:00there's I think there's a lot more you
1:24:02you know what it is you can start
1:24:04actually
1:24:05you will target a lot of a lot of top
1:24:07offunnel stuff just by accident but but
1:24:12you will basically it and when you have
1:24:15a real brand you can rank a lot faster
1:24:17and a lot easier for high intent terms
1:24:19and for high volume terms you can go
1:24:21into new cities easier. You can do
1:24:23there's just so much that you can do
1:24:24easier and and you can create this is
1:24:28another huge thing. you can create top
1:24:30of- mind awareness as well because there
1:24:32are a lot of people who don't even go to
1:24:35Google to search something and they just
1:24:36have a they they just like there's some
1:24:39there's a company on the top of their
1:24:40mind because they're always seeing the
1:24:41these red trucks out there
1:24:44>> and and then you can and and you can
1:24:45start getting into adjacent niches as
1:24:48well that it might not even be local
1:24:51like it like there's there's a lot of
1:24:54different products that you can create
1:24:55and you can like it might not just
1:24:58services. I'm just thinking out loud
1:25:00here and because
1:25:02>> you have assets that are that are
1:25:04ranking and bringing in money and you
1:25:06can basically roll these up into one
1:25:09mega brand. That's kind of that's kind
1:25:11of what I'm thinking about. I don't have
1:25:12the idea fully fleshed out, but it's
1:25:14something that's getting me excited.
1:25:16>> No, for sure. And uh um when it comes to
1:25:20a brand or like a national brand, I'm
1:25:23the believer that like branded search
1:25:27signals is one of the most powerful
1:25:29signals to have. For example, Rotorooer,
1:25:32everybody knows Rotorooer as a plumbing
1:25:35national brand. They get branded
1:25:38searches. People actually going to that
1:25:40site because they search the brand. So I
1:25:42think when you want to compete on a
1:25:44national level um you want to create
1:25:47that. Now how do we create that if it's
1:25:49like a brand new site without having
1:25:51millions of dollars to spend on TV ads
1:25:53and billboard ads? I think if you can I
1:25:55think the big play here is if you can
1:25:57create some sort of a utility on that
1:25:59kind of a site where people actually
1:26:02find it useful. People repeat traffic
1:26:04people go going back to the site to use
1:26:07it for XYZ reason. Maybe it's an ability
1:26:10to get a quotation or using digital
1:26:14means. For example, instead of the
1:26:17estimator coming to your house, maybe
1:26:19you can take a picture of your cabinets
1:26:20or your kitchen, send it to this company
1:26:23and they can give you a quote digitally.
1:26:25That's a good example of a utility on on
1:26:27a national branded site. Now you're now
1:26:30pe different people have a reason to
1:26:32come to that site rather than just
1:26:35almost just landing on a site and just
1:26:36calling it, right? So that that can
1:26:38separate yourself and differentiate
1:26:40yourself and like potentially be able to
1:26:42create a huge national brand like that.
1:26:45One of the things that yeah I think
1:26:47about too but there you can see that in
1:26:49like a lot of directory sites too like
1:26:52the directory sites that are doing well
1:26:54like longterm there's like a utility to
1:26:56it. I think the one I saw was a um
1:27:00I I think it was like for directory for
1:27:02funeral funeral services.
1:27:06Um and it had like unique information on
1:27:08there that actually made it useful
1:27:11actually made it where people wanted to
1:27:12come back to it or use it um for a
1:27:15specific purpose.
1:27:17Yeah. Last question is what are the
1:27:20biggest reasons that rank and rent
1:27:21projects fail? Somebody someone listens
1:27:24to this episode, they're like, "I'm so
1:27:26hyped. Let's do it. I'm make I'm going
1:27:28to There someone's listening. I'm going
1:27:30to make a few grand a month and then I'm
1:27:32going to quit and then I'm going to put
1:27:34up a bunch of these more." And so like
1:27:37Yeah. What I think it's important what
1:27:39are the biggest reasons that these fail
1:27:41so that listeners can avoid these
1:27:42reasons.
1:27:44>> Yeah. The biggest reason by far is not
1:27:46building enough sites.
1:27:49So this is the biggest like mental shift
1:27:51for people is like most people are 9 to5
1:27:54uh which gives you absolute certainty
1:27:56that you're going to make money if you
1:27:57spend if you invest hours into this
1:28:00particular job right but
1:28:02entrepreneurship it's not like that
1:28:04there's a lot of uncertainty you have to
1:28:06invest some time into a project that
1:28:08might not pan out so let's say you go
1:28:12into rank and rank you pick a vast city
1:28:13or niche you just build one website and
1:28:16it didn't quite work out now you get
1:28:17discouraged about the model itself and
1:28:20you quit. I mean the only way to really
1:28:22fail is if you quit, right? But if you
1:28:24build 10 rank and rent sites, you should
1:28:26not fail all 10. And let's say it takes
1:28:29about 10 hours to build these sites like
1:28:31from start to finish. That's 10 times 10
1:28:34hours times 10 websites, that's 100
1:28:36hours. Um each site, but every mistake
1:28:40you is not a fail. You just you actually
1:28:43is a learning experience. You learn from
1:28:45that. Um, and over the years that I've
1:28:48been part of like previous communities
1:28:49and whatnot, I've never seen anybody
1:28:51build 10 rank and rent sites and not not
1:28:53be making money, not be talking to
1:28:55business owners with leads being
1:28:57generated. And um, yeah, I mean,
1:29:01repetition, persistence, that's that's
1:29:03the number one skill, consistency. Um,
1:29:07you know, like Edward, like you've been
1:29:09creating these YouTube videos every day
1:29:11for the last three, four years, which is
1:29:13insane. Yeah. And uh that's the mother
1:29:16of all skill is consistency um and
1:29:19persistence. So and in rank and we're
1:29:22not talking about you have to build 50
1:29:23or 100 websites. I mean just get focus
1:29:25on getting 10 out there and I promise
1:29:27you you will start seeing results.
1:29:30>> Rank and rent masterclass.
1:29:33Eay, thank you so much. Where should
1:29:35everybody go and find you and find
1:29:37everything that you do and your awesome
1:29:38stuff?
1:29:40>> Yeah, so you can visit my site eay.com.
1:29:43It's just my name, ipi.com, or you can
1:29:46find me on on YouTube, eBay. Just type
1:29:48in eBay rank and rent or eay SEO.
1:29:51>> Thank you again.
1:29:53>> Thank you, Edward, for having me on,
1:29:55>> dude. My pleasure. This has been this
1:29:56has been so good.
1:29:58>> Um, all right. This episode 1,117
1:30:01of the podcast. 1,117
1:30:04days in a row doing this show.
1:30:06>> Wow.
1:30:07>> Yeah.
1:30:08>> Amazing.
1:30:08>> Yeah.
1:30:09>> Oh, yeah. [laughter] If if you watch
1:30:11this on YouTube, thank you so much for
1:30:13watching. If you listened on Spotify or
1:30:15Apple Podcasts, thank you so much for
1:30:18listening and I will talk to you again
1:30:21tomorrow. Bye now.

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