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Race and Economics | Walter E. Williams and Stefan Molyneux — Transcript

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0:00at George Mason University and a
0:02nationally syndicated columnist he is
0:03also the author of over 150 publications
0:06which have appeared in scholarly
0:08journals and many books including up
0:10from the projects an autobiography race
0:12and economics how much can be blamed on
0:14discrimination and American content
0:17American contempt for Liberty you can
0:19check out the good doctors work at
0:21Walter Williams com thank you so much
0:23for taking the time today thank you one
0:27of the great tragedies for me as an
0:28ardent free-market advocate is the
0:30degree to which there is this idea that
0:34somehow to bring about egalitarian ism
0:37between ethnicities in economic outcomes
0:39we need the big giant fists of the
0:41government to scoop and redistribute
0:43vast amounts of money I think one of the
0:46cases that you make most strongly dr.
0:48Williams is how much the free market is
0:51the real friend of the disadvantaged
0:53minority and how much government power
0:55has been used to keep people from the
0:59table of equal opportunities oh yes and
1:03yet there are a number of errors areas
1:06that you can look at but one general
1:08comparison is that if you go to poor
1:11black neighborhoods you will see at
1:14least some nice cars some nice clothing
1:18some nice booze and maybe even some nice
1:21houses but no nice schools and so you
1:25say well well well how about you know
1:27why not at least some nice schools
1:30well cars and clothing and booze and and
1:34and other items they are generated in a
1:38market system schools schools are
1:42created by the political mechanism by
1:45the government system and if you are a
1:48disadvantaged person whether you're
1:51black or white or any other race you
1:53want to minimize allocation through the
1:56through the government because the
2:00market is far superior and and and if
2:03you look at you know look at the state
2:05of education in our country you know the
2:07level of education that white kids get
2:10is nothing to write home about but the
2:12level of education that black
2:13receive is the utter disgrace and just a
2:17few examples the average black student
2:19who has a high school diploma in his
2:21hand has the reading writing
2:24computational ability of the average
2:26seventh or eighth grader eighth grade
2:29white student just recently in the city
2:32of Baltimore it turned out that there
2:35are seven high schools in the city of
2:37Baltimore and they spend roughly fifteen
2:40thousand dollars per kid in seven
2:43schools not a single student scored
2:47proficient in math and English but yet I
2:50looked at one of the schools I looked at
2:52one of the schools in Baltimore
2:54predominately black school and they held
2:57a graduation ceremony in June they were
2:59graduating students who didn't who
3:03didn't know who are not proficient in
3:06English math and there and what that
3:09means is that the diploma that they
3:11receive is a fraudulent document and
3:14that is when you have a diploma that
3:16says that a test that you can read and
3:19write at the twelfth grade level and
3:20when in fact you cannot that diploma is
3:22fraudulent and I might also add that
3:25untempered as long as their white kids
3:27received is fraudulent and the evidence
3:30is is that close to fifty percent of
3:32incoming freshmen at the nation's
3:35colleges require remedial English and
3:38remedial math and remedial writing and
3:40so that says something about the high
3:42school diploma that they received oh
3:44it's very frustrating for me as well
3:46because it's very I've always been
3:48fascinated how much greater parental
3:50control greater neighborhood control
3:52over education might be able to close
3:55this IQ gap between blacks and whites or
3:58blacks and East Asians and so on and
3:59I've read some material that there's an
4:01indication that a greater parental
4:03control over education some market
4:05incentives in the provision of education
4:07can help close the IQ gap between blacks
4:10and whites oh yes that is and you know
4:13some of the charter schools are doing
4:15much better than the public schools and
4:17and some of the private schools and some
4:20of their parochial schools are doing
4:21much better in the education of children
4:24in general than the public schools
4:27and so I think that again if and more of
4:31some of the evidence is that some of the
4:34evidence of the parents want for these
4:36uh for these choices comes when you when
4:40schools give out vouchers when people
4:42give out vouchers or people sign up for
4:44charter schools there are huge lines
4:46often with parents black parents waiting
4:49outside overnight trying to get their
4:51kid into out of the rotten public
4:54schools now you've also talked about
4:57something which I think few people
4:58understand which is the market
5:01incentives against discrimination and
5:05and people think that somehow you know
5:07that where the dollar goes all human
5:09iniquities follow but I wonder if you
5:11could help lay out the case as to why in
5:13the free market those who discriminate
5:15irrationally against their own economic
5:17best interests end up being punished in
5:19the long run well one example of this is
5:22a book that I wrote in 1989 or 1990 and
5:25it's in the title of it is South
5:28Africa's war against capitalism and I
5:30spent several times I visited South
5:33Africa and one time I spent about three
5:35months in South Africa doing Studies on
5:38the labor market in South Africa and I
5:41suffered and I give many quotations in
5:44the book that that white races unions
5:47are major supporters of minimum wage
5:51laws for blacks now and their stated
5:55purpose in South Africa is that they
5:58want to protect white workers against
6:00competition with low-wage low-skill
6:03black workers now here's what is what
6:05was happening
6:06I believe in 1971 somewhere around that
6:09era area the era white construction
6:13workers that is they were laborers on
6:16construction projects they were being
6:17paid a dollar ninety one cents an hour
6:20and it turned out that black workers
6:23would be paid doing the same job 39
6:25cents an hour so there was a lot of
6:28incentive for contractors to disobey job
6:32reservation laws and higher or
6:35contravene them in some way and hire
6:37black workers and so the the market that
6:40is P
6:41well that is contractors had no greater
6:43love for black black people in South
6:45Africa than the average white or the
6:47Afrikaner but the economic incentives of
6:51being able to hire someone for a a lower
6:54wage provided opportunities for blacks
6:57that they're otherwise we're not a
6:58receive another example of this in the
7:01United States that during the 1920s one
7:05could not prevent whole neighborhoods
7:07from going from white to black virtually
7:10overnight and this was like in 1920s
7:13before there was a HUD no equal housing
7:16laws etc etc and in neighborhoods like
7:19in Harlem the Strawberry Mansion and
7:21many other places in our cities now it
7:24turns so he has to question well how in
7:26the world that these disadvantaged poor
7:28black people come to sees the use
7:30control of property from whites
7:33well is very simple that is a landlord
7:35that might have been renting a
7:37three-story building to a white couple
7:39and let's assume that landlord might
7:41have been a racist what six black
7:44families might have come up to him and
7:45said look if you cut this building into
7:48six parts we'll pay you fifty dollars
7:50per apartment and so the landlord looked
7:54at the prospect of making $100 rent from
7:58white family versus three hundred
8:01dollars from the blacks and so he opted
8:04here in this places dude like so it
8:06would have turned out is that blacks
8:09sense just simply outbid it whites for
8:11the property now for children now some
8:13people say I know some listeners will
8:15say well look is it fair for some people
8:20have to pay a higher price of what they
8:22buy than others well economic theory
8:24can't answer the question about what is
8:26fair but economic theory can tell talk
8:29about the effects of not allowing some
8:32people to buy up a higher price of what
8:34they buy than others and just one
8:36example that people and easily relate to
8:38if I were to ask any of your listeners
8:40suppose you saw a fat old ugly cigar
8:43smoking man married to a beautiful young
8:45lady what kind of prediction would you
8:48make about that man's income waiting
8:50your protect is pretty high and what is
8:52the man doing well he said
8:54to the beautiful young lady I can't
8:57compete for your hand on the basis of a
8:59of a handsome guy so let me offer you a
9:02higher price now some people might say
9:04oh is it fair for beautiful young ladies
9:06to charge that old ugly cigar smoke man
9:08higher prices than handsome men and you
9:12might say no it's it's unfair and you
9:14make a law that beautiful young ladies
9:17can't marry you know me can't a charged
9:19fat old ugly cigar smoke men higher
9:21price and an answer man then after that
9:23law is passed you say what is the
9:25probability of a fat old ugly cigar
9:27smoking man marrying a beautiful young
9:29lady it goes a zilch because by denying
9:32him the right to offer a higher price
9:35you what you do you take away his most
9:38effective means of competing with the
9:41more firm man and going back to the
9:43housing issue if you deny blacks the
9:46right to chart to pay higher prices what
9:49they buy you take away their most
9:51effective means of competing with the
9:53more preferred person well it's one of
9:55these things where you may look at it
9:57and a certain amount of aesthetic
9:59disappear is in the situations how it's
10:01unfair it's unfair but the remedy is
10:03always worse than the supposed illness
10:05because the only way to try and remedy
10:07this is to use the vast and corrupting
10:09power of the state to interfere with
10:10people's free market decisions and
10:12violate their property rights yeah I
10:15think you're absolutely right and and if
10:17you look at the areas where where blacks
10:21are most disadvantaged you look at you
10:24know you know what does it take for a
10:25person to get into the taxicab business
10:27to become an owner operator of a taxi
10:30well you need a car you don't need a
10:32whole lot of Education you need a
10:35insurance policy but in cities like New
10:38York historically the license to own and
10:43operate one taxi cost close to a got as
10:47high as close to 1 million dollars that
10:49is the medallion price you had to pay
10:50and so you say we'll look if you create
10:53a system where you have to buy a costly
10:55medallion to in order to become an owner
10:58operator well who does that discriminate
11:00against well discriminates against
11:01people who don't have a million dollars
11:04hanger laying around
11:05or bank credit to get a loan for that
11:08amount and so you look at you look at
11:11many areas where there's occupational
11:13licensing or business licensing by the
11:16government and that handicaps the less
11:19referred people or at handicaps a
11:21handicap to late comers or people with
11:23that political Club now let's do a bit
11:26of a time whiplash and go back to sort
11:28of 18th about 17 to 18 to 19th centuries
11:31mm-hmm I always feel every time I read
11:34intelligent and well-educated people on
11:36a subject to do with history
11:37particularly American history
11:38particularly race relation American
11:40history filming history has been robbed
11:42for me and I've never been told the
11:43truth about anything and one of the
11:45things that you point out is you sort of
11:46push back against the narrative that it
11:49was like Universal like there were there
11:51were house slaves there were field
11:52slaves and nobody had any opportunity
11:54who was was black and you do point out
11:56some differences to do with that I won't
11:59even help people understand that it was
12:01not all Universal oppression but some of
12:04the amazing black entrepreneurs that
12:06popped up in American history with a
12:08fair degree of regularity oh absolutely
12:11right
12:12matter of fact during during and during
12:15the time of slavery the blacks would
12:18something sometimes work at night for
12:21somebody else in order to get some money
12:23the and matter of fact they there was a
12:26practice they called quasi free Negroes
12:29and these were these were blacks who who
12:33their owners would allow them to go into
12:35business for themselves or do various
12:37jobs and they would the the agreement
12:40with the owner would be that the black
12:42takes care of his food and his housing
12:45at cetera cetera and then he comes back
12:46and pays a little bit money too you know
12:49gives his own owner some of the
12:50Commission and so the the portrayal of
12:56blacks as as helpless helpless victims
13:01of slavery it's just plain wrong now
13:04donal getting don't get me wrong
13:06slavery is a horrible horrible it attack
13:11on personal liberty but it turns out
13:14that sometimes economics can bring
13:16people to their senses and allow them
13:19to grant they allow slaves be granted
13:23extra privileges right now three of the
13:28biggest issues I think that everyone
13:31with concern about these issues looks at
13:33the black community in says well there's
13:35problems with legitimacy there's
13:36problems with high unemployment that's
13:39problems with high crime and of course
13:42the standard answer is well you're
13:43embedded in a system of white privilege
13:45and white racism and therefore therefore
13:47therefore but of course if those
13:49problems were better in the past that
13:51kind of puts in the final nail in the
13:52coffin of that thesis honor if you could
13:54take people back to a little bit more
13:55recent history and how much better the
13:57black community was was in in these
13:59areas before say the welfare state and
14:01others well you're absolutely right that
14:04is currently the illegitimate C rate
14:07among blacks is seventy five percent
14:09that means seventy five percent of black
14:11babies are born without the benefit of a
14:14mother and father who are married now it
14:18turns out that the illegitimately rate
14:20among blacks in 1940 or 1938 was
14:25somewhere between twelve and fourteen
14:28percent today the the percentage of
14:32blacks living in two-parent families
14:34that is black kids living in two-parent
14:36family is right around thirty percent
14:38but if you go back to 1925 in Harlem it
14:42was 85 percent of blacks living in
14:44two-parent families and in other cities
14:47a click to Cleveland and Philadelphia
14:51and and some other cities somewhere
14:54between seventy and eighty five percent
14:55of blacks were living in two-parent
14:57families now it's giving me now people
15:02who say that the black family structure
15:05today the the is is a result of slavery
15:10and discrimination well they should
15:13explain well how come it was not much
15:16worse in earlier periods when blacks
15:18were indeed much closer to slavery than
15:20they are today you know a lot of people
15:25I just ignore the fact that black
15:28Americans have made many many great
15:31gains and
15:32the big problem for us is to somehow get
15:37these gains to 30-some percent of black
15:39people for whom they appear elusive and
15:42as I often point out that like Americans
15:45have made the greatest gains over some
15:48of the highest hurdles in the shortest
15:50period of time than any other racial
15:52group in the history of man well what's
15:54the evidence for this well if you just
15:56added up the the income that black
15:59Americans earn each year and just
16:02thought of us as a separate nation we
16:04would be the world's 20th richest nation
16:07some black emerg have been some of the
16:10world's most famous personality one
16:12black American : Powell was and head of
16:15the nation's might of the above the
16:17mightiest military in the world and
16:19their few black Americans who are among
16:23some of the world's richest people now
16:24the significance of all this is that in
16:281865 neither a slave nor slave owner
16:31would have believed that this kind of
16:34progress would be available it would be
16:37possible in just a little bit over a
16:39century and as such it speaks to the
16:42intestinal fortitude other people but
16:44just as importantly it speaks to the
16:47greatness of a nation where these kind
16:50of gains were possible that is these
16:52kind of gains would have been impossible
16:54anywhere on the face of the earth except
16:58United States and so I think that many
17:01people push the the agenda that black
17:05Americans are just poor helpless people
17:07and we need government we need white
17:10liberals pushing government to to
17:13somehow protect us and that is utter
17:15nonsense well then this is astonishing
17:19to reading in your work dr. Williams
17:20about historical rates of black
17:23employment because unemployment
17:25particularly youth unemployment which I
17:27would argue of course is a function of
17:28you know excessive unionization rules
17:31and in high minimum wages youth
17:32unemployment is extraordinarily high in
17:34the black communities in certain
17:36neighborhoods but history this was not
17:38the case at all that's right in in in my
17:41book race and economics I showed the
17:44partner labor statistics
17:46that shows that in 1948 black teenage
17:50unemployment was less than white
17:53teenager unemployment I think that black
17:55teenager unemployment was nine point
17:57four percent and white teenage
17:59unemployment was ten point two blacks
18:01were more they had a higher labor force
18:06participation than whites nameless a
18:08hundred and six percent of that of
18:09whites and today it's exactly the
18:12opposite in some cities like on a
18:15teenager unemployment is fifty percent
18:17their labor force participation rate is
18:20very very low and how do you explain
18:22this well can you say well J in 1948 the
18:25reason why black unemployment was a lot
18:27Louis a teenager unemployment was so low
18:30was because there was less racial
18:32discrimination in 1948 than today or
18:35that black teenagers had greater skills
18:38than white teenagers in in 1948 well
18:41that's just plain nonsense what explains
18:44the high rate and growing rate of black
18:46teenager unemployment are increases in
18:49the minimum wage law and also increases
18:54in numerous labor laws that protect
18:57adult workers from having to compete
18:59with teenage workers right in your
19:04description of growing up in your
19:07neighborhood you mentioned that there's
19:10very little crime but people wouldn't
19:12even lock their doors to like 11 o'clock
19:13at night and so on and I've also been
19:15struck by a doctor I guess retired
19:18doctor Souls description of growing up
19:20in a poor neighborhood I wonder if you
19:22can help share with people your
19:24experience of the neighborhood you grew
19:26up in and compared to what people's
19:27general perceptions of these kinds of
19:29neighborhoods are these days well I I
19:31grew up and I spent a good part of my
19:33life in the Richard Allen housing
19:35project in North Philadelphia and in the
19:39Richard Island housing project on the
19:42many people there did not even lock
19:45their doors at all
19:46and if they did lock their doors at
19:48night many just wait until 11 o'clock or
19:5110 o'clock when everybody was in the
19:53house I could I go I would go over to my
19:55friends house and just knock on the door
19:57and let myself in
19:59there was people in hot humid nights
20:02people felt comfortable sleeping out on
20:05lawn chairs or sleeping out on the
20:08balcony you don't do that today we did
20:12not go to bed with the sounds of
20:14gunshots but today there's all kinds of
20:20you know gunplay and and in looking at
20:24crime crime has just has really just
20:28taken off in many black community just
20:30just over the fourth of July weekend in
20:33Chicago 80 people were shot and I
20:36believe it's like 14 homicides and one
20:39of the tragedies of them about the huge
20:42killing rate in Chicago is that the
20:45clearance rate is less than 20% that
20:48means that the police bring a catch of a
20:52murderer just 20% of the other homicide
20:56victims there their murders caught and
20:59so the the and and and it's in the and
21:02people living in fear sometimes you know
21:04the average white person would not begin
21:07to tolerate the kind of conditions that
21:10many black people live under you know
21:12some some black mothers will put their
21:15kids in a bathtub at night so as they
21:18won't get hit by stray bullets sometimes
21:20some parents tell the kids don't go to
21:23the window or either serve dinner
21:26sitting on the floor so as the void
21:28stray stray bullets people are put bars
21:32in front of their houses and from the
21:34windows and special locks on door and
21:37all this is entirely new among black
21:40people
21:40and I can't imagine that these
21:44experiences are far off from the
21:46emotional traumas that people experience
21:48in direct war zones oh yeah yeah yeah
21:51that's I mean it's incredible and and
21:53the average American just has no idea
21:56and would not begin to tolerate the kind
22:00of living conditions that many black
22:01people must live under and one of the
22:05very unfortunate things is that many of
22:08the so-called black leadership they they
22:12make sure
22:13they exempt themselves from those living
22:15conditions such as Maxine Waters I mean
22:18she's the representative a congressman
22:20Maxine Waters sees the representative of
22:23South East Los Angeles whites but she
22:27doesn't live anywhere near her
22:29constituents she lives in a I think it's
22:32six thousand square foot for over four
22:35million dollars house in in in a very
22:39nice part of Los Angeles right which I
22:42think is only six percent black so she's
22:43another thing about these so-called
22:46leaders is that in terms of they will
22:50vote against vouchers and tuition tax
22:53credits to enable black parents to get
22:56their kids out of these unsafe and
22:58failing schools they'll vote against it
23:00but their children they have them in
23:03private schools and in and in or in
23:06charter schools they would not begin to
23:09have their children go to one of those
23:12schools I just mentioned of in Baltimore
23:14where teachers are assaulted I think in
23:18Baltimore I think in 2010 or 2012 an
23:21average of four teachers were assaulted
23:24each day of the school year these these
23:27people who vote against had tax credits
23:30and vouchers they would not begin to
23:32have their kids in such a school well
23:35and I remember the doctor Williams
23:36hearing the phrase the Democrat
23:38plantation regarding the harvesting of
23:40poor blacks for votes in return for you
23:42know whatever drips you can get from the
23:44government a feeding tray and remember
23:46thinking wow that's a really harsh
23:48phrase but the more I've talked to
23:50people like yourself the more I've
23:51researched it myself that the idea that
23:54blacks in the inner cities are being
23:57kept in a state of squalor and and
24:00violence and so on and people aren't
24:01acting to do the free market reforms
24:03that would genuinely help those
24:05communities for me it's hard to avoid
24:06returning to that phrase in my mind yes
24:10it's a it's very difficult and matter of
24:13fact if you ever want more insights a
24:15fellow's far more involved with it than
24:18i larry elder he's a radio guy in los
24:22angeles
24:23and he talks about it and he doesn't
24:25naturally Cindy Collin syndicated column
24:27and he talks about the kind of
24:30undermining notes and the kind of things
24:33that undermine black achievement and and
24:36and you're not going to really do very
24:38much to to help people number one until
24:42you get rid of or do something about the
24:45crime rate because what the high crime
24:48rate means is that people who can do
24:50better and people who care more they're
24:52the first leave and with the high crime
24:55rate teachers being assaulted etc etc
24:57that means that the the best teachers
25:00will come will go anywhere near these
25:04unsafe schools so I think first order
25:08business in dealing with any of this all
25:11these problems is to do something about
25:13the verver high crime rate and and also
25:16do something to the extent that we can
25:18about the the breakdown on the black
25:21family man if I got breakdowns probably
25:24the improper word to use it's not very
25:27descriptive at all the family doesn't
25:28start in the first place and that is and
25:32somebody we have to do something about
25:33the family structure and all the
25:35evidence that we see the statistical
25:37evidence that we see is that kids from
25:39female head of household are more likely
25:42to commit suicide more likely to be
25:45involved in the criminal justice system
25:46more likely to be murders and thugs and
25:49robbers and and other miscreants
25:53the masoor tuss the historical black
25:59approach to government relations to to
26:01merely to streams but just for the sake
26:03of efficiency let's pretend it was
26:04because like the Japanese who came to
26:08America issued involvement in politics
26:10and you know work to save and work to
26:12grow their businesses and so on and if
26:13ended up doing better than whites in
26:15America versus the Irish who came and
26:17you know became like politicians and
26:19cops and so on and it'll act behind this
26:21idea of what is your relationship if you
26:23disadvantaged what is your relationship
26:24to stay power now nowadays generally
26:27what we hear through the mainstream
26:28media is the blacks who say oh the black
26:30leaders who say well let's vote
26:31ourselves into prosperity let's get more
26:33had been advantageous from government
26:35let's get more benefits from government
26:36but
26:37there was another very strong stream
26:38particularly after the end of slavery of
26:41black leaders saying no no no like the
26:43famous ancient French ministry or
26:45laissez faire leave us alone
26:47let us don't try and help us don't step
26:49in our way
26:50just leave us free to compete and that
26:52thread seems to have diminished over
26:54time oh yes and I and I think that the
26:57the there's the this growing assumption
27:00or there's this assumption that there's
27:02a connection between political power and
27:05economic power power and there's no
27:07evidence to support that whatsoever and
27:10matter of fact and you mentioned
27:12Japanese or Asians in general Japanese
27:15don't even have political power don't
27:17have much political power in the areas
27:19that they're that they're the most
27:21numerous such as a northern California
27:24in Southern California but nonetheless
27:27by any measure of socio-economic success
27:31Japanese Americans are just about at the
27:35top now on the other hand you find as
27:37you mentioned Irish Americans
27:39historically have been very very much
27:42involved in the political systems in our
27:44country but it turns out that the Irish
27:47Americans were the slowest rising of any
27:50of the white ethnic groups if you look
27:53at if you ask the area ask the if you
27:56say well what are the areas today where
27:58blacks live under the most horrible
28:00conditions well there are the very
28:03cities where a black is the mayor a
28:06black is the chief of police or the
28:10Democrats have been running the city for
28:13a half a century or more and that is you
28:16know you don't find all the decay and
28:18rot in cities that are essentially run
28:23by Republicans now I'm not saying that
28:25blacks ought to run out and vote for
28:26Republicans but I'm just pointing out
28:29that there is little or no connection
28:32between political power and economic
28:35power well and if you know the the the
28:38free market solutions is always a
28:40band-aid that hurts at the moment but
28:41it's better in the long run and looking
28:43back in time and it's easy for me to say
28:45because it's not my livelihood on the
28:46line but looking back in time if the the
28:49mechanisms
28:50the state had not been used to keep
28:52blacks from evenly competing with
28:53everyone else on the economic playing
28:56field well then of course black incomes
28:58would have risen and and everyone's it
29:00caught economics would be much better
29:01off and very very few of the problems
29:04that we face today would either be here
29:06or be as immense as they seem to be
29:08because the longer you keep holding off
29:10the inevitable free market reforms the
29:12more communities and families and
29:15incentives get distorted to the point
29:17where when you have to bring back the
29:18free market reforms it's a much bigger
29:21pile of pain that it would have been in
29:23the past oh yeah I think so and then I
29:27think that that we can we can begin to
29:30bring the free market back into play by
29:35a lot of just deregulation and there's
29:38an organization called the Institute for
29:40drug justice and they've been at the
29:42forefront of fighting various kinds of
29:45licensing laws and various kinds of
29:49regulations that handicapped people from
29:52getting into business such as as Hair
29:55Braiding or the taxicab business
29:57barbering and and and and many other
30:01businesses and I would suggest that the
30:04that the listener would just check out
30:07its ij.org Institute for justice and
30:10they are leading the struggle to bring
30:13to bring many elements of the free
30:15market back right and of course these
30:18kinds of regulations hit in particular
30:20the least advantage which is why I think
30:22if they come down we'll see a lot more
30:24progress in these communities now I know
30:26we don't have a huge amount of time this
30:27morning dr. Williams want to really
30:29really thank you I hope this is given
30:30people a taste of the kind of innovative
30:33and creative information and arguments
30:35that dr. Williams brings to this
30:36fractious topic I want to remind people
30:38please please go to Walter E
30:40Williams comma put a link in the show
30:41notes his books are fantastic very easy
30:44to read and very powerful lots of data
30:47and lots of great anecdotes you possess
30:48a very elegant pen and I appreciate how
30:50you put it to work in these areas thank
30:52you so much for your time this morning
30:53and thank you

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