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【格差婚】「もっと野心もって」「平均年収は稼いで」夫より高学歴・高収入の妻が抱えるモヤモヤ｜アベプラ — Transcript

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0:01So, Ramaru-san, what did you think?
0:04>> Honestly, that’s really harsh.
0:06They’re saying some pretty intense
0:08things.
0:08>> Yeah.
0:09>> If the genders were reversed, this would
0:11never fly, right?
0:13>> I mean,
0:13>> if I were married and said, "My wife is
0:16an idiot, she doesn't make any money,
0:18and she's useless," that would cause a
0:20massive firestorm, right?
0:21>> True.
0:22>> That's why I think this is really
0:24intense.
0:25It's a strange world where it's okay to
0:27badmouth your husband.
0:29Well, I think it depends on the tone; if
0:32it’s more like "oh, my husband is such a
0:34handful," in a lighthearted way, then
0:37maybe it's fine, but...
0:39>> If they’re actually serious, I think
0:41they should probably just get a divorce
0:43.
0:43>> Yeah. Thank you. Well, we can ask them
0:45directly about that.
0:46>> Now, let me introduce our guests one by
0:48one.
0:49First, featured in the VTR, we have
0:51Matsuri Mama-san, who has a higher
0:53income and education level than her
0:55husband and finds it harder to respect
0:57him every year.
0:59Matsuri Mama-san, please come in. Nice
1:01to meet you.
1:02>> Good evening. Nice to meet you.
1:04>> Yes, good evening.
1:06Thank you.
1:08Next, we have Jikuashi-san, who once
1:10thought he would be the breadwinner, but
1:12now that his wife earns more, he has
1:14shifted to supporting his family and
1:16wife. Jikuashi-san, please come in. Nice
1:18to meet you.
1:19>> Good evening. Nice to meet you.
1:21>> Yes, good evening. Thank you.
1:23And one more guest. He is a former
1:25political reporter for Kyodo News who
1:27became a stay-at-home husband when his
1:29wife was transferred to the U.S. He has
1:31experienced his own struggles and has
1:33interviewed many men whose wives earn
1:35more than they do. He is a professor at
1:37Chiba Institute of Science,
1:38Nishiwaki-san. Nishiwaki-san, welcome.
1:42>> Thank you. Let me start by asking you,
1:45Ko-san.
1:47As mentioned, what kind of impact do you
1:49see in households where the wife has a
1:50higher income or education level?
1:54In Japan today, this is said to be the
1:56case in just under 10%of dual-income
1:58households.
2:00Where the wife is higher, yes.
2:02>> I see.
2:04>> Well, people today—and people now—
2:06certainly have a lot going on.
2:09Yes.
2:10>> From what I’ve heard, at least,
2:12>> Yes.
2:14>> The moment the wife's salary surpasses
2:16the husband's, he says, "Please, I’m
2:18begging you, quit your job."
2:21>> Wow.
2:21>> He can't stand it anymore.
2:23He can't accept the reality of earning
2:26less as a man. Yeah.
2:27>> Before that, there are naturally
2:29arguments and such, right? I think
2:30there’s domestic friction and things
2:32like that, but in extreme cases, it goes
2:34that far. I haven't heard if she
2:36actually quit, but those cases do exist
2:38. You look like you want to say
2:39something. Are you okay?
2:41>> I was just wondering why they even got
2:43married, like Matsui Mama said earlier.
2:45>> Then, shall we ask? Matsui Mama, uh...
2:48>> Including the question of why you got
2:50married in the first place, what are
2:51your thoughts?
2:52>> Yeah. Oh, let's see.
2:58When we got married, I didn't really
2:59prioritize things like education level,
3:01and I basically just married him because
3:03I liked him.
3:08Uh,
3:09>> Yes. Uh,
3:10>> That's right.
3:11>> Oh, go ahead. Please.
3:13>> Oh, well, yeah.
3:19At the time, he was a very kind person,
3:21and he matched a lot of the points on my
3:23list of criteria for someone I wanted to
3:25marry.
3:29>> So there were many parts that fit.
3:31>> And so I really
3:33>> thought he might be an ideal person.
3:36>> When you first met, whose income was
3:38higher?
3:42>> Well, when we met, his was a bit higher
3:44, but it was like 4 million to 5 million
3:46yen, so I didn't really feel much of a
3:49difference back then.
3:52Yes. So, in that sense,
3:56>> does Matsui Mama's husband help out a
3:58lot with childcare and housework?
4:02>> Oh, he does help with childcare and
4:03housework.
4:05Uh,
4:06>> I'm not sure how other men are, but yes
4:08.
4:10I think he's doing a lot. Wait, isn't
4:12that amazing?
4:13>> Yes. In terms of dividing roles, this is
4:15how it currently looks, right? How do
4:17you feel about this? What are your
4:18thoughts on this division of labor?
4:20>> Exactly. Well, yes.
4:22Since I'm on parental leave right now,
4:25>> well, uh,
4:28>> there is this kind of division of roles
4:30, but
4:30>> yes.
4:31>> Yeah. Yeah.
4:35When it comes to childcare, I do take on
4:37more of the burden, but he really tries
4:40his best as a dad, so when I was working
4:42, well, let's see.
4:46>> Yeah.
4:51Even though he's a good dad, I really
4:53hated myself for thinking things like "
4:54I'm earning as much as him" when the
4:56burden of chores or childcare ended up
4:58falling on me.
5:02>> Yes.
5:04>> Pattern A is where your husband's income
5:07>> is higher than yours.
5:09Pattern B is what was just mentioned,
5:12>> cooking, cleaning, laundry,
5:17>> which pattern would you prefer, where
5:19your husband does all the cooking?
5:22>> Yeah. Yes.
5:25Pattern A.
5:26>> Oh, wouldn't it be okay for him to do
5:28Pattern B? Is that not allowed?
5:30>> Ah,
5:30>> for example, if he becomes a
5:32stay-at-home dad
5:33>> and does B.
5:34>> Well, yes.
5:36I think that pattern would be fine if my
5:38income
5:41>> yeah, were much higher, but I don't earn
5:43enough to support us on one income.
5:48>> Also, let's see, my reason for earning
5:50money
5:53>> at a fundamental level is really just to
5:55spend more time with my children and
5:57live a happy family life.
6:00>> How much would you like your current
6:02household income of 12 million yen to be
6:04in 5 to 10 years?
6:05>> In 5 to 10 years. Well, let's see.
6:09I'm actually on parental leave now, and
6:11our household income has dropped by
6:13about 3 million yen, so I do feel a bit
6:15anxious about that.
6:19So, I don't think there would be that
6:21much of a change in my career, and the
6:22damage would likely be minimal, but
6:24still.
6:28Over the past year or so, household
6:29income has dropped significantly, so
6:31there might be some concerns about who
6:33will take reduced working hours before
6:35returning to work.
6:41Until now, it was taken for granted that
6:42the woman would do it, but as shown on
6:44the screen, couples often find they
6:46can't communicate, or their relationship
6:48starts to feel like a boss and a
6:50subordinate.
6:54And you end up looking down on your
6:55husband.
6:57>> It sounds like you aren't feeling very
6:58good about yourself either, right?
7:01What are your thoughts on this?
7:03>> Yes.
7:05Well.
7:09As Mr. Komura mentioned earlier, I truly
7:11believe that academic background isn't
7:13everything, and I used to think that
7:15anyone could increase their income
7:17through effort.
7:24We've been married for about eight years
7:26, and while I didn't think education
7:27mattered, seeing my husband's current
7:29situation where his salary just won't go
7:31up—when I find myself giving advice like
7:33, "Maybe you should get more
7:35certifications" or "You should look for
7:37a new job"—it really does start to feel
7:39like a boss-subordinate dynamic.
7:44>> I start feeling like I have to lay out
7:46the path for him, and then it becomes
7:48hard to respect him, which makes me feel
7:50like I have a really nasty personality.
7:53>> I've always felt that way, but I do
7:55understand how you feel. It’s
7:57understandable that your level of
7:59respect would drop in that situation,
8:00but it's tough, isn't it?
8:03In short, you thought he was a happy and
8:05fun person when you were dating, but now
8:08that you're facing a twenty-year project
8:10of running a household and raising
8:11children, it's difficult because your
8:13husband lacks project management skills
8:15and isn't exactly pulling his weight,
8:17right?
8:19Ah, yes, that's right. Yes.
8:21>> A surprising number of high-earning
8:23business owners around me,
8:25>> Usually have a mother,
8:27>> A wife,
8:27>> Or a girlfriend who tells them, "You are
8:29a capable person." Yeah.
8:31>> Yeah.
8:32They constantly cheer them on with
8:34expectations.
8:36>> Even when they're failing.
8:37>> Then they start to believe they're
8:39actually good at their jobs, so maybe
8:40that kind of support is what helps
8:42people grow.
8:43>> Rather than the boss type.
8:44>> Yeah.
8:44>> Good luck.
8:45>> Because I'm losing at home, too.
8:47>> Yeah. That's true. Indeed.
8:49>> I think boys grow when you flatter them
8:51, though.
8:52>> Go ahead.
8:54I did that for the first three or four
8:55years,
8:58>> but it would just end with them saying "
9:00I'll do my best," and it didn't really
9:02lead to results later on, so maybe my
9:04approach was wrong.
9:07>> Then leave it to me.
9:09You'll be made to drink.
9:10>> Yes. Um, I've read your note. Uh,
9:12Matsuri-mama. "Personally, the fact that
9:14my husband is a high school graduate
9:15doesn't matter.""I had a belief that I
9:17didn't want to be the kind of person who
9:18judges others by their educational
9:19background.""I thought it didn't matter
9:21if we loved each other.""However, in the
9:22eight years we've spent together, I've
9:24felt differences in our ways of thinking
9:26, how we face problems, and our attitude
9:27toward continuing to learn.""As a result
9:29, it manifests as a gap in educational
9:31background, and it's becoming a stress
9:33in our daily conversations."
9:34>> Yes. "
9:35>> I've come to think that it might
9:37actually be a difference in the ability
9:38to understand and think about things
9:40itself," is what you wrote. Um,
9:41>> Oh,
9:43>> Has your husband read this note?
9:45Or does he not know about it?
9:46>> He hasn't read it, right?
9:48>> He hasn't read it, right?
9:49>> Ah, he hasn't read it.
9:50>> Oh, is that so?
9:51>> Keep it quiet. Have you told him that
9:53you're appearing on the show today?
9:55>> I haven't told him.
9:56>> You can't say it, right?
9:58>> Well, that's true. Uh,
10:00>> It would be sad if I were told that.
10:01>> Yeah. Uh,
10:02>> But aren't there quite a few cases of
10:04the reverse pattern? I mean,
10:06>> What? In nine out of ten Japanese
10:08households, the husband earns more,
10:10right? So, just—uh, what was it,
10:12Matsuri-san?
10:13>> Matsuri-mama, right? I feel like there
10:16are often male versions of Matsuri-mama
10:18, meaning, the wife doesn't earn much
10:20and he has a higher educational
10:22background, for example.
10:24And he thinks, "She does some housework
10:26, but I can't really respect her anymore
10:28." I actually think that's a fairly
10:30common case, just with the genders
10:32reversed.
10:33>> When the woman is the woman
10:35>> it becomes acceptable, doesn't it?
10:39It’s acceptable for a man to have a
10:41lower level of education or earn less,
10:43but when the roles are reversed, it
10:45suddenly feels a bit strange; it’s a
10:46form of gender asymmetry, isn’t it?
10:50>> I think it’s because those values are
10:51still so deeply rooted.
10:53>> But how are people generally solving
10:54this, aren't they?
10:55>> Exactly as you said, Rama-san, that has
10:58been the default. And now that the
10:59reverse pattern has emerged,
11:01>> that rarity, so to speak, is becoming
11:03more prominent. That’s exactly the
11:05situation.
11:06Basically, as women enter the workforce
11:08and more women are earning, these kinds
11:10of couples and these kinds of men are
11:12appearing. Well, it's that process, or
11:14rather the transition, isn't it? Or
11:15perhaps, you could say it’s a matter of
11:17timing. Yeah.
11:18>> Yes. Now, we will hear from Juku-san,
11:21who is a husband.
11:22He is a husband whose wife has a higher
11:24income and level of education than he
11:26does. Yes.
11:28I understand you’ve faced various
11:30conflicts; how do you feel about it?
11:33>> Yes.
11:34Oh, yes.
11:36Well.
11:37It ended up that way as a result, really
11:39.
11:41There was a pretty big turning point
11:43some time ago, though.
11:47Due to maternity leave and such, my wife
11:49didn't work for eight months of the year
11:51.
11:52Yes. Yeah.
11:54On the other hand, I worked full-time
11:56for all 12 months, and even then, my
11:57wife’s income was still higher.
12:05>> So, I realized that supporting my wife
12:07to build her career was, as you
12:09mentioned earlier, a better choice for
12:11running our "family project" more
12:13happily, and since then, I've accepted
12:15it quite naturally, which is why things
12:18are the way they are now.
12:24>> Yes.
12:25>> Yeah.
12:26>> So, how is it? Now that you are actually
12:28on the supporting side, how do you feel
12:30?
12:31I understand you have three children,
12:33right?
12:33>> That's right. Yes.
12:37Well, it's not so much that I'm
12:39providing full support; we both work
12:41full-time, but since my work is
12:43primarily remote, I contribute more to
12:45housework and childcare.
12:50My wife is very satisfied with our
12:52current situation, so we are living a
12:54very harmonious life.
12:57Yes. At first, as it's written above,
12:59you wanted to be the one earning and
13:01supporting the family, but things have
13:02turned out differently now.
13:04But, how about that?
13:06Now that you think about it and compare
13:08, how do you feel?
13:10>> Well, let's see.
13:14Honestly, right now, I feel incredibly
13:17happy myself, and I have absolutely no
13:19complaints at all.
13:22>> Yes.
13:25You heard what Matsui-mama said earlier
13:27, but I feel like your wife has a lot of
13:29respect for you, Naoya-san.
13:33How do you see that difference?
13:36Maybe that was a bit too direct, but
13:38what do you think?
13:44>> Well, I think things like income and
13:46educational background certainly play a
13:48part, but beyond that, I think of us as
13:50partners fighting together, considering
13:52everything including our involvement
13:54with the children.
14:01We both feel that way, so I think that’s
14:03why we respect each other and why things
14:06are going well.
14:08Yeah. Yes.
14:09>> Ko-san, how do you see this case?
14:11>> That "happy"
14:14>> and "no complaints" part is truly
14:16impressive, isn't it?
14:19This is what happens when a man reaches
14:21that level.
14:22>> Yes.
14:23>> Well, speaking for myself, when I went
14:25to America, it wasn't just that my
14:27income was surpassed, I hit zero.
14:28>> I became a zero.
14:30>> I had no income at all.
14:33At that time, I felt like I was
14:35hemorrhaging, but through constant
14:37self-discipline, I managed to find some
14:39sort of enlightenment, and now I feel
14:41like I've finally transcended it, so
14:42although it might be presumptuous to
14:44compare, I felt a connection to this
14:46person's experience.
14:49Comparing myself to them a little.
14:51>> Oh, do you do the cooking and cleaning
14:53too, Konishi-san? Do you?
14:54>> In America, I was a full-time homemaker
14:57, so I did everything, and I think men
14:59like Konishi-san are very popular.
15:01>> Yeah. Yeah.
15:02>> Around me, about 50%of management
15:04positions are held by women. 50%.
15:06>> There are many female leaders who are
15:08active.
15:08>> They have a vision, and they're working
15:10hard not just for income, but to change
15:12society or achieve self-realization.
15:14>> When I ask them who they want to date or
15:16marry, or who they are actually with—
15:18>> Yeah. Yeah. They say they want someone
15:20who cleans and does the laundry, they
15:21don't really care about how much they
15:22earn.
15:23>> Ah, right, right, right.
15:24>> They say, "A high-achieving corporate
15:26executive type of man? No way,
15:28absolutely not, that's impossible for me
15:30."
15:30>> That kind of woman is increasing.
15:32>> Maki-san is nodding vigorously.
15:34>> Right, my home is also, well, not
15:35exactly a house-husband situation, but I
15:38act as a substitute full-time homemaker
15:40.
15:40>> My wife is the same.
15:41>> But I've changed my thinking recently.
15:43>> Oh, really?
15:44>> Yeah. I think it's perfectly fine.
15:47Actually, according to government data
15:49on the conditions men and women look for
15:51in marriage, the number of men who seek
15:52economic power in women is increasing
15:54significantly.
15:56And on the other hand, the number of
15:58women seeking housekeeping and childcare
16:00skills is increasing.
16:01>> It's a pairing, so in the end, as more
16:03women advance into society—
16:06>> Those kinds of men—
16:07>> Will be chosen, and people like me will
16:10stop being chosen.
16:11>> I think that's fine, though.
16:12>> Yeah.
16:13>> That's it. And for someone like me, how
16:14should I put it? I'm really bad at being
16:16told to do this or that, and even if I'm
16:19told, I can't do it.
16:20>> Yeah.
16:20>> So I think the household runs much more
16:22smoothly if I'm the one managing things
16:23, or isn't it better for the person who
16:25can do it to just do it? We all have our
16:27strengths and weaknesses.
16:28>> I definitely think that way is better. I
16:30knew it.
16:30>> So, if your partner doesn't do anything
16:32on their own, don't you think, "What the
16:34heck?"
16:35>> No, I don't. You could just tell them to
16:37. If you tell them and they do it, isn't
16:39that more than enough?
16:40>> Yeah.
16:40>> I don't think so.
16:43So, Matsuri-mama, your husband doesn't
16:45really do cleaning or cooking?
16:48>> Well, I think he does about 60 percent.
16:52>> But aren't you expecting too much from
16:53people? In the end, you're asking a
16:55stranger to do things, right?
16:57>> Oh, that's right.
16:58>> Even though they're a stranger.
16:59>> But since we're married, you'd think
17:01they could do at least that much.
17:03That's a bit strange.
17:04>> Maybe I'm expecting too much. Isn't it
17:06just a matter of changing yourself?
17:07>> Yeah. Is that wrong?
17:09>> Yama-san, what's wrong?
17:10>> Well, even so, you mentioned earlier
17:12that in less than 10%of households, the
17:14woman earns more, right?
17:17So, for men, being in the position of
17:18not being the primary breadwinner makes
17:20them an overwhelming minority.
17:25But in a society where men are generally
17:27expected to earn more, I wonder if
17:29there's a kind of pressure or oppression
17:30—the feeling that men*should*be the
17:32breadwinners—that makes them feel like
17:34they're failing.
17:38>> Hmm. That's true.
17:39Well, I think that really does exist. In
17:42reality, yeah, that...
17:44>> When the social climate is like that,
17:46there are bound to be parts that just
17:48don't fit with who you are. Yeah. Yeah.
17:50Yeah.
17:51>> Wait, but it might actually be lucky,
17:52right?
17:53>> Yeah. Well, that's true. Perspective.
17:55>> They might be the winners.
17:56>> No, if you think about it. I mean, the
17:58household income goes up.
18:01So, for example, if the man was paying
18:04for tuition, and the wife starts paying
18:06it instead, that means, well, his
18:08personal spending money might increase.
18:12That's how it works.
18:14>> It's all about mindset.
18:16It's a complete shift in perspective,
18:18but as lightly as I said it just now,
18:20it's actually quite difficult to do.
18:22>> Yeah. That's right.
18:23>> When you've actually been surpassed,
18:26>> The point is, there's a sense of
18:27inferiority about being surpassed, and
18:29on the woman's side, there's often a
18:31strong underlying expectation that "
18:33since you're a man, you should be the
18:35breadwinner."
18:36>> Exactly.
18:37According to research, if it's that way
18:39from the start—from the time of marriage
18:42—if the woman is earning more, it's not
18:44as bad, but if she overtakes him later,
18:46it puts tremendous psychological
18:48pressure on the man.
18:50>> That sort of thing is a bit...
18:51>> Yeah.
18:52>> There's a study that says
18:53>> Yeah.
18:55...
18:55>> that being overtaken deals a huge mental
18:57blow to the man.
18:59>> It turns into a competition, doesn't it
19:01?
19:01>> Well, in the end, it becomes a power
19:03struggle of sorts. Yeah. And for that
19:05power struggle, yeah. I think men tend
19:07to be more sensitive to it, if I had to
19:08say.
19:09>> In that sense, you're saying it's
19:11important to figure out how to manage
19:12that pride. On the man's side.
19:14>> How to come to terms with it when
19:16entering that kind of situation.
19:18I mean, the power a man shows, his
19:20ability to prove himself—there’s
19:22certainly a valid argument that it’s
19:23tied to his earning power.
19:26But in this day and age, with so many
19:28women earning money, how long can a man
19:30hold onto the idea that a man is only
19:32worth what he earns, or should he keep
19:34holding onto it?
19:36>> Letting that go.
19:37>> Yes.
19:38>> Assuming you let it go, what happens
19:40then?
19:40>> Yes, Mr. Yado, you mentioned this
19:43earlier. What are your thoughts on this
19:45?
19:45You actually wake up before your wife at
19:474:30 in the morning and take care of the
19:49house, right?
19:50>> It’s really true.
19:52How did you overcome that?
19:55What's your take?
19:57>> Oh, uh, thank you. Sorry about that.
19:59After waking up at 4:30, I’m just doing
20:02my own thing, but, um...
20:04>> Even so, yes. You go to bed together,
20:06but you wake up first at 4:30, right?
20:08Yes.
20:09>> Yes.
20:09>> Well, that's right.
20:11It's just that, well, I’m putting in
20:14some effort to improve myself by reading
20:16, going to the gym, and things like that
20:18.
20:19>> Uh, yes, that's right. Uh, yeah.
20:22>> It's about the male pride aspect, isn't
20:24it?
20:24>> Ah, yes, it is. Yes.
20:27Um, regarding that, at the time of our
20:29marriage, who earned more or less didn't
20:31really matter—or rather, I wasn't even
20:33aware of it.
20:37After we got married, I gradually found
20:39out, and, well, being a man, I do feel
20:41some sense of inferiority knowing that
20:43my income is lower.
20:47However, yeah.
20:48>> Well, there's no point in dwelling on
20:51that.
20:53When I prioritize our family's happiness
20:55and ensuring our children have
20:57everything they need, like you said,
20:59with a dual income, we have a solid
21:01safety net.
21:04Even if one of us were to falter, we
21:06have a system in place to handle it.
21:09So, honestly, I have no complaints right
21:11now, and our worries are quite minimal.
21:14>> Yes. You changed jobs seven times,
21:16putting in effort to try and increase
21:18your income, and...
21:19>> You worked really hard, didn't you?
21:21>> That's right. Well, that's...
21:23>> Seven times in a year?
21:24>> Yeah.
21:25>> Yes. In the process of putting in all
21:27that effort, you've come to accept your
21:28current life.
21:30Did you talk about this with your wife?
21:32About how to move forward?
21:33>> Yes, we did. That's right. Well,
21:35whenever I switched jobs, she’d be like
21:38, "Wait, again?"
21:39>> Well, um,
21:40>> I did get scolded, but I feel like I did
21:43the best I could in my own way.
21:45>> Thank you very much. Yes. Matsuri-mama,
21:47we've heard a lot of stories so far, how
21:50do you feel about all this?
21:51>> Well, let's see.
21:55What's different about you compared to
21:56the others is that you have a
21:58work-from-home setup that allows you to
22:00focus on housework and childcare, and
22:01I'm honestly quite envious of that
22:03environment.
22:08I have a full-flex, work-from-home setup
22:11myself, but my husband often has
22:12business trips and works very long hours
22:15.
22:18>> Even though he gets home late...
22:21>> I realized that I feel frustrated when
22:23the burden of child-rearing falls on me
22:25, and I find myself thinking, "But I'm
22:27the one making more money."
22:30So, I thought if that area was balanced
22:32out, my feelings might change a bit.
22:34>> Yes. And, well, you’ve written this in
22:37your notebook, too. You’re saying that,
22:39deep down, you still want to have
22:40expectations of your husband, aren't you
22:42? Yes, so, how will you move forward
22:44from here?
22:45>> Yes. Well, let’s see.
22:50He seems to be looking for a new job
22:51that allows for remote work or flexible
22:53hours, but whether he’ll actually find
22:55one is a different matter.
23:01So, regarding the "project" we mentioned
23:03, to keep things running smoothly...yes
23:05.
23:08I do have this desire for us to
23:09compromise and change our work styles
23:11together.
23:13>> So that’s it, isn't it?
23:15It sounds like your husband isn’t really
23:17taking on the "family project" as his
23:19own responsibility.
23:21>> Is it okay to go that far?
23:22>> Well, I don't know for sure. But, I mean
23:24, based on what I’m hearing. I’m only
23:26hearing it from one side.
23:27>> But if you look at the world average or
23:28compare them relatively, I think all
23:30three of them are actually quite happy.
23:31>> I mean, really.
23:32>> There are plenty of much worse
23:34situations out there.
23:35>> Yeah.
23:35>> Yeah. Yeah.
23:36>> Yeah.
23:37>> Yamamoto-san, what do you think? What
23:39should be done?
23:39>> Well, every family has their own values
23:41, and I think it’s fine for couples to
23:44have different views, so I don't really
23:46have an opinion on it.
23:49However, I do think that if you respect
23:52and support each other, you’ll both grow
23:54more as individuals.
23:56>> Work isn't just about income; it’s also
23:58about dreams.
23:59>> Yeah, exactly. Wait, you can't respect
24:01his work? I mean, making money is just
24:03about whether you’re good at it or not,
24:05and I don't think that directly leads to
24:07respect. But if the work content is
24:09incredible—I don't know, like if he were
24:11the only person in Japan who could do it
24:13—wouldn't you respect him even if he
24:15made money? Or is that not really it?
24:17>> Yeah.
24:19>> Oh, me? Well, let me see.
24:22Well, regarding the work itself, I think
24:24you're working hard, and it's wonderful
24:26that you're so committed to it.
24:28>> Well, I suppose that’s true.
24:34When you see people at your company
24:35earning a certain base salary, or when
24:37you’re talking to them and think they’re
24:39so articulate and clear, and then you
24:41talk to your husband after work and feel
24:42disappointed, that’s where your
24:44frustration probably stems from.
24:52It’s not necessarily directed at your
24:54husband, but perhaps because his job
24:56involves a lot of business trips, the
24:58burden of housework falls too heavily on
25:00you.
25:04And as we saw earlier, splitting rent
25:0650/50 and you paying 60%of living
25:08expenses isn't that much of a difference
25:10.
25:11In terms of financial burden, that is.
25:14So, I feel like just sitting down and
25:16talking with your husband once to adjust
25:18that balance might completely resolve
25:20that frustration.
25:22>> Yeah.
25:22>> Is that so? Wait, no.
25:24>> Isn't it not that kind of problem?
25:27It’s not that you get angry talking to
25:28your husband.
25:30It’s that you end up thinking your
25:31husband is stupid—thank you so much.
25:34In that sense, if the genders were
25:35reversed, this would be a fairly
25:37unacceptable situation in terms of male
25:39chauvinism.
25:40And what is written here is also...
25:42>> It’s the absolute truth, the kind you
25:44can't even say directly to the person
25:46involved. So, although it’s a delicate
25:48way to put it, I take it quite seriously
25:50.
25:51The fact that things like thoughts of
25:53divorce are written here, and that you
25:54feel like you’re becoming a perpetrator
25:56of emotional abuse, and that you’re
25:57asking if there are others with similar
25:59worries.
26:00And that is something your husband must
26:02never hear.
26:02>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
26:04>> That's how it is.
26:05>> Yeah.
26:06>> People with low incomes now aren't
26:07necessarily failing to work hard today,
26:09but rather something has been missing
26:10over the past ten years.
26:11>> Conversely, if you work hard now, I
26:13believe your income will definitely
26:14increase ten years from now.
26:15>> Yeah. Yeah.
26:18So, if your partner is currently putting
26:21in the effort to potentially double or
26:23triple their income in ten years, it
26:25might go up if you wait, but what's your
26:27take on that, Matsuri-mama?
26:35>> Well, I don't think they're doing
26:36nothing, but they keep failing the same
26:38certification exam about four times a
26:40year.
26:44>> Yeah.
26:48>> They also get stuck on the basic math
26:50section during written tests for job
26:52changes, which makes things stall.
26:58>> So, there’s that frustration of them
27:00falling short there.
27:01>> Yes.
27:03Since the note concludes with the desire
27:05to seek out a solution, I truly hope
27:07things head in a better direction.
27:10Yes. I'll see it through to the end.
27:12>> Yeah, it's a difficult situation, isn't
27:14it? Extremely, yeah.
27:16>> If the roles were reversed, the content
27:18would probably be too controversial for
27:20the media.
27:21I think they’d be completely trashed for
27:24it, so first of all, I'm just glad the
27:26broadcast managed to happen, and I
27:28believe families like this definitely
27:30exist in the world.
27:32Where one person earns money and the
27:34other doesn't, yeah.
27:39There's that dynamic where one might
27:41look down on the other, but I think to a
27:44certain extent...Since Matsuri-mama is a
27:46woman, if the gender roles were flipped
27:48, you often see the husband just say, "
27:50Fine, I'll earn the money, just handle
27:52everything else," but it's harder when
27:54you're expected to leave it entirely to
27:56the husband, so personally,
28:03I feel like you have to find a solution
28:05outside the home.
28:09I'll learn from this and hope to apply
28:11it to my own future family life.
28:16>> I'm Naoyuki Hiraishi, the host of Abema
28:18Prime.
28:20Thank you for watching.
28:22Please take this opportunity to
28:24subscribe to our channel.
28:29Bye.

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