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PSYCHOLOGICAL TRICKS to Be More ATTRACTIVE & CHARMING | Vanessa Van Edwards — Transcript

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0:00Watch. So, like, this is the This is the
0:02weirdest thing I've ever said on
0:03YouTube. If you handshake with someone
0:05in the next 10 seconds, you will touch
0:07your own nose cuz you're trying to smell
0:09their hands.
0:10It is Vanessa Van Edwards.
0:12She's a human lie detector.
0:13She's the founder and lead investigator
0:16at the Science of People. The woman who
0:18used to hide in the bathroom to avoid
0:20people at parties and is now the most
0:22captivating person in most any room.
0:24Believing you can't succeed in love,
0:26life, or business without first
0:29mastering skills. It's almost impossible
0:33to be charismatic when you're feeling
0:34afraid. It comes from a study. They
0:36split them up into two different groups.
0:38The second group, they had them wear
0:39sweat pads and skydive. People who
0:41smelled the fear sweat pads, their own
0:44fear part of their amygdala lit up.
0:46Their brain could smell that fear sweat
0:49and they began to feel afraid. It's a
0:51study that changed my life, okay? Stick
0:54in.
1:19Vanessa.
1:20Thanks for coming
1:20brew and everything. Thank you.
1:23Starbucks you should definitely be
1:24paying us. Come on.
1:25Every interview I do is a Starbucks logo
1:28in it.
1:28very clever, by the way, because to
1:30start an interview with here's your cold
1:32brew is basically saying this is going
1:33to be good. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
1:36You're nice and you're nice and cold out
1:38now. Love it. So, Vanessa. Yes.
1:41This is actually the third time you've
1:43been on the show.
1:44it? And I mean, I've I love our
1:46interviews so much. When you reached
1:48out, I was like, yes. Yes.
1:50Let's do it again. Yes. And one of the
1:52things we wanted to talk about was
1:54something that was different. Yes. And
1:56one thing that has changed is that
1:58you've had a second child now.
2:00Yes.
2:00Claire. Yes. And I'm sure Sienna is a a
2:03very vivacious 5-year-old. Yeah. Yeah.
2:07So, what one of the things I want to
2:09talk about cuz I actually just visited
2:10back home to see my brother and the way
2:12she's communicating now is definitely
2:16changed. She's more patient. He's a
2:18better listener.
2:20What are the things that you've learned?
2:22I know this is your second child, but
2:23I'm sure you get reminded about these
2:26experiences.
2:27Oh, yeah. Second kid is more cuz
2:28everything you thought was a fluke the
2:29first time is real. Really?
2:32Yeah, cuz it confirms it. So, one thing
2:35that um I think about a lot, and this is
2:36I think helpful for everyone, whether
2:37you're a parent or not, is um how we
2:41form our communication styles.
2:44Right. So, as adults, we have
2:45communication styles, ways that we
2:47communicate on text or email, like even
2:49down to how we use exclamation points.
2:51So, Sean, are you an exclamation point
2:53user or no? Depends on the person. I
2:55know one of the conversations you said
2:56we have to adjust based on who we're
2:58talking to.
2:59Yes. So, I do adjust sometimes, but I
3:01would say mostly not. Mostly not. Yeah.
3:04and anyone who's watching this,
3:06for highly competent folks, folks who
3:09lean higher in the competent scale,
3:10which they have they're competent
3:12communicators, it is physically painful
3:14for them to add exclamation points. Like
3:16they they like,
3:18"Ooh, it sounds like I'm yelling. It's
3:19too enthusiastic." Whereas highly warm
3:22communicators, they love an exclamation
3:24point. They have an exclamation point
3:25after every sentence, right? They love
3:27emojis. They love words like wow, yay,
3:30whoop, fab, okay? So, that even just
3:32down to our way we communicate, there's
3:34different styles. So, we actually form
3:36our communication styles starting around
3:38age three.
3:40Oh. This is amazing to think about. So,
3:42there was research that was done,
3:44incredible amount of data, where they
3:46had 3-year-olds come into their lab, not
3:49really, really their caregivers, and
3:50they asked caregivers to rate their
3:53child personality on a
3:55number of different traits. And so, the
3:57caregivers filled out this huge survey
3:59of their children, everything from
4:00agreeableness to um extraversion to
4:04organization to conscientiousness, all
4:07the personality traits. Then they
4:08followed these children for 25 years.
4:11Wow, that's a long study. Okay.
4:13really long study.
4:14And when they went back to these kids,
4:17now adults, at 27, 28, they had them do
4:20the same test for themselves.
4:23And what they found were the results
4:24were shockingly similar.
4:26The way that caregivers described them
4:28at age three was shockingly similar to
4:30the way they described themselves at age
4:3328.
4:34Interesting. So, what I think about is,
4:37okay, if our personality, our
4:39communication style is nature or
4:41nurture, right? Three is not birth,
4:43right?
4:44Can we change it? Right? If we have a
4:46communication style that isn't working
4:47for us, can we change it if it's been
4:49ingrained in us from three?
4:51And then second, what can we learn about
4:53ourselves and also how can we help our
4:55children
4:56develop communication styles that really
4:58work for them?
4:59So, as I have a second, I'm seeing how
5:02different they are. Same parents, same
5:04home, same city, and they are radically
5:07different. And so, um it's been I've
5:09been thinking a lot about how our
5:10communication styles grow. And it's not
5:12about the lifestyle, right? Cuz you guys
5:14are the same parents, you're treating
5:16them the same, same values.
5:18It's really just the fact that they're
5:20different.
5:21Same bedroom. Like we moved my daughter
5:23out of her bedroom so we can have the
5:25baby. So, same crib, same chair, same
5:28and still radically different. Now,
5:29she's only 8 months old, but I'm already
5:32seeing the differences. And so, I think,
5:34you know, one thing that people could
5:35think about is what forces shaped your
5:38personality.
5:40So, um was that genetics? Could be. You
5:42know, is it the way your parents
5:44parented you? Um is there things along
5:46the way that shaped the way that you
5:47communicate? I think that those are
5:49interesting things to think about when
5:50we're talking about, you know, how we
5:51relate to others. Right. Right. So,
5:55are you adjusting based on that now that
5:58you have observed it to to treat them
6:00differently or should you? Like is is
6:02that the way it should be done for
6:04parents that are
6:06seeing such vast different personalities
6:08amongst babies? Yes, with an exclamation
6:10point.
6:11I like exclamation points.
6:13I even verbally add exclamation points.
6:15That's how much I like them. Okay, so,
6:18here's my approach, especially now that
6:20I'm a parent, I really think this. So, I
6:22was grown up I was I was grown up. I was
6:25taught the golden rule growing up. You
6:28know the golden rule, treat others as
6:29you would like to be treated, right?
6:30That was what I was taught.
6:32And I think that that is a fundamentally
6:34flawed way of looking at life. And so, I
6:37am not parenting with the golden rule.
6:39And I actually don't teach the golden
6:41rule. Every one of my students knows I'm
6:43much more for the platinum rule.
6:46The platinum rule, you know, platinum By
6:48the way, the play here is that platinum
6:49is more precious than gold, okay?
6:52Um and the platinum rule is that you
6:54should treat others as they would want
6:55to be treated.
6:57And I think this is a really important
6:58thing to think about is we if we are,
7:00let's just take um conscientiousness,
7:03right? Conscientiousness is an aspect of
7:04our personality. There's five aspects of
7:06our personality. You know them as OCEAN,
7:08openness, conscientiousness,
7:09extraversion, agreeableness,
7:11neuroticism.
7:12And I love talking about neuroticism.
7:13Yeah, and you were always the one that I
7:15don't know about. I got to know about
7:16it.
7:16talk about that one cuz that's that's
7:17the biggest difference between my kids.
7:18Cuz I have a high neurotic and a low
7:20neurotic. Okay. Okay, so, um
7:23actually let's do let's do neuroticism.
7:24So, neuroticism is
7:25um our emotional stability. High
7:28neurotics are reactive to their
7:29environment. They have a lot less
7:31internal emotional stability. They are
7:32worriers, typically. Um they actually
7:35feel negative experiences more strongly.
7:39Most people think neuroticism is a
7:40choice. Actually, it is a chemical
7:42difference in how we process. People who
7:45are high neuroticism, this is me.
7:47We carry long forms of a certain gene
7:49called the serotonin transporter gene.
7:52This gene means that high neurotics
7:55produce less serotonin more slowly.
7:59So, what happens to a high neurotic is
8:01I'm in the car. My husband's a low
8:02neurotic. I'm a high neurotic. That That
8:04pairing goes really well, by the way.
8:06Is that a Is that a formula? It can be
8:08really helpful to have like opposites
8:11help each other in a lot of ways cuz
8:12there are strengths and weaknesses to
8:13both, which we'll talk about both.
8:15We're in the car. Someone almost hits
8:17us. Okay? We go,
8:20"Ah!" at the same time. Both my husband
8:21and I our cortisol begins to flow and
8:23we're like, "Whoo, that was close."
8:25But as a high neurotic, the serotonin,
8:28which is helps calm you down, it helps
8:30you feel okay, um it's kind of a sense
8:33of belonging, is slower. So, my husband
8:35immediately everything's okay. His body
8:37produces serotonin and he's forgot about
8:39that little accident within a couple of
8:40minutes.
8:41Me, I'm still in cortisol. Even 20
8:44minutes later, I'm a little bit jumpy.
8:46And that is because my body produces
8:47less serotonin more slowly, meaning I
8:50feel negative experiences more strongly.
8:53That is why worriers worry.
8:55They are literally worriers because it
8:57hurts them more when something bad
8:59happens. Right. Whereas a low neurotic
9:01is like, "It's no big deal. If something
9:02goes wrong, we'll deal with it." Cuz
9:04they can recover so quickly.
9:06So, um there are benefits, pros and
9:08cons.
9:10Low neurotics are emotionally stable.
9:12They are very calm. They can usually
9:14control their inner experience.
9:17They are great in a crisis.
9:19Right? They are the one the rock who
9:20gets you through. They are very
9:21level-headed. They can keep you calm.
9:23They can stay calm. They're the people
9:24you want next to you if something's
9:25going wrong.
9:26Sure.
9:27High neurotics prevent crises from
9:29happening in the first place.
9:31Right. High neurotics are like, "We
9:33don't want a crisis to happen."
9:35Right. Right. So, we're going to get all
9:37the emergency gear. We're going to have
9:38plans B, C, D, and E, right? So,
9:41both are incredibly important. You need
9:43to have both, right? So, um knowing
9:46that, I see I have a high neurotic
9:49daughter and I believe my little is a
9:50low neurotic. Already I can see this.
9:53And so, for my high neurotic, I know
9:55that she experiences negative
9:57experiences more strongly. So, if I I'm
9:59a high neurotic, I'm going to treat her
10:00with more care in that way. I'm going to
10:02tell her the plan ahead of time. I'm
10:03going to tell her the backup plan.
10:05Whereas my little one, I let her do
10:07things that I never let my my first
10:10child do cuz I'm like, she'll be all
10:11right.
10:12Sure. So, I'm trying to treat them as
10:15they should be treated as opposed to how
10:17I would treat them. Right.
10:19how I approach all relationships.
10:20Right, right. And it's something that
10:21people don't really think about, right?
10:23I would imagine if you're not aware of
10:25that, the person that has low
10:26neuroticism would be like, oh, this
10:27person is way too reactive. LIKE,
10:29YOU'RE LIKE, calm down.
10:31Don't worry about it. Don't worry about
10:32it.
10:33vice versa, I'm sure the other person is
10:34like, why are you so calm all the time?
10:36Like,
10:38you're a robot? Like, you know, do you
10:39have any emotions? It's it's it's
10:41certainly a barrier.
10:43Yes. And so, this is I think something
10:44that is when we know it, it frees us,
10:47right? So, one is think about the three
10:49to five most important people in your
10:50life. Are they high, medium, or low? Can
10:53be high me It's a scale, right? So,
10:55high, medium, or low. For your high
10:57neurotics in your life, a gift you can
10:59give them is knowing their worry
11:01triggers.
11:03Got it. Right? What triggers their
11:04worry? Like, for me, my husband knows
11:06that not having a plan
11:08kind of triggers my worry. So, he's
11:09really good at trying to get a plan for
11:10me, right?
11:11Sure. Um he would never do a surprise
11:13party for me, right? He would know that
11:15would not make me happy. Yeah.
11:17Um so, what are their worry triggers?
11:19And second, how do they worry? Are they
11:22verbalizers or are they
11:25closed I don't know, closed downers,
11:26shutter-inners, right? So, they're two
11:28different kinds of worry. So, um
11:30extroverts typically verbalize their
11:32worry. They want to talk it out, talk it
11:33out, talk it out, talk it out, talk it
11:34out, talk it out. And they don't want
11:35you to solve it, Yeah.
11:36right? They verbalize it until they're
11:38like,
11:39done, empty.
11:41Then you have um high neurotics who
11:43usually introverts are they shut down.
11:45They want to retreat, they want to be
11:47alone, they want to process, they want
11:49to think, they do not want to be talked
11:50to, bothered, touched, anything. They
11:52need to process before they can even
11:54begin to talk about it. It is a gift to
11:56allow your warrior to worry as they
11:59naturally worry. Mhm. If you try to pry
12:02out um an introvert, they're they feel
12:05very violated and unsupported. When all
12:07you're doing is trying to understand,
12:09but they're not ready yet.
12:10They might even go further down the
12:11rabbit hole of of And push you away.
12:13Right, yeah. Whereas a high neurotic, if
12:15you try to shut down their verbalizing,
12:17they will not stop worrying.
12:20Right? They they feel super unheard.
12:22Mhm. And so, it's a gift to give them
12:24that. Treat them as they want to be
12:26treated. Um if you are a high neurotic
12:28and you have a low neurotic in your
12:30life, it's very important to understand
12:32that they do not understand how you
12:34experience bad things.
12:36So, when they say, don't worry, they
12:37don't mean it in a mean way.
12:39Right.
12:40They they really don't. They really
12:41think they're trying to be helpful.
12:43Right, right.
12:43Um they also are going to say things
12:45like, calm down. I was just going to say
12:47that. I was like, do not use that word.
12:49Do not use those two words.
12:51The word like, right? What is the famous
12:53phrase? Never in the history of calm
12:55down has calm down every every calmed
12:56anyone down. That is the way it works.
12:58So true, yeah.
12:59So, we should try to avoid that. But
13:00when they do say something like, calm
13:02down and no worries, they really are
13:04coming from a good place. The last thing
13:06you want to do is react at them. Mhm.
13:08Right? They really they're lost. They're
13:10like, what is happening? Cuz they don't
13:12experience negative experiences like you
13:14do. Yep. And so, the best thing you can
13:16do is when you're calm is try to explain
13:18your triggers to them and how you like
13:20to worry. Very interesting. Okay. And
13:22that's just one of the personality
13:23traits we got. My little one here.
13:25Okay. For sure. I mean, just the fact
13:26that you're aware of that, I think is is
13:27good cuz I think people just judge the
13:29other person without really
13:30understanding the fact that we we're
13:32just wired differently. Literally
13:34physiologically Absolutely.
13:36Yes. And like, I think that that's you
13:38know, we talk a lot about accepting
13:39difference.
13:41That is one of the ways we can accept
13:42difference, Sure.
13:43right? Is understanding how we're wired
13:45differently and understanding someone's
13:46personality traits and
13:49willing to adjust your communication
13:51style to match theirs.
13:53Got it. Got it. So, this is the first
13:55thing that has changed since our last
13:56conversation. It's a big change,
13:58obviously.
13:59Yeah. The second change that's happened
14:01is this rise of AI. Oh, yes. Let's talk
14:05about AI. Yes. Some some really
14:07interesting stuff, some really scary
14:09stuff. I don't know if you've ever seen
14:11deepfake interviews that are being done.
14:13One example is like Joe Rogan
14:15interviewing Steve Jobs or Sam Altman,
14:19who's the founder of OpenAI.
14:22And I like it gets me thinking
14:25because if someone never heard of this
14:27interview or Joe Rogan,
14:30you would almost think that they're
14:32actually having a real-life
14:33conversation.
14:34And I don't know if you've gotten to
14:35that point where like someone has
14:36deepfaked your speaking reels or your
14:40You've done it yourself?
14:41it to myself. Okay, so this is my
14:43question is
14:44what is it that is the essence of the
14:48way humans communicate that
14:50even AI today won't really be able to
14:54replicate? Like, what is the thing where
14:55if you heard an AI speak versus a human
14:58speak, what is the difference that like,
15:00no, this because of this, this is the
15:04real Vanessa Van Edwards or the real Joe
15:06Rogan? How do we tell those apart? I
15:08think the only way right now, and this
15:10could change in a couple years, but
15:11right now and I created deepfakes of
15:13myself to see how it would go.
15:14Ah, so interesting.
15:15Right? Um it did not get right, not even
15:17close.
15:18Intonation and emphasis.
15:20Vocal power.
15:22It was really interesting cuz we
15:23uploaded my audiobooks. So, that's, you
15:25know, 12 hours of me speaking. We update
15:29we uploaded podcasts where I was
15:30speaking conversationally. So, it had
15:33dozens of hours of me speaking and it
15:36did not get the intonation right. It was
15:38my voice,
15:39Yeah. but I'll give you an example. So,
15:40I have a certain kind of cadence that I
15:42speak with. I'll emphasize different
15:43parts of a sentence.
15:45My deepfake
15:47would emphasize the wrong things.
15:50Ah, interesting.
15:51And so, at the end of a sentence, it
15:52would do differently it would sound
15:54different than how I actually sound.
15:57I would never talk like that, but it
15:59would make it So, it the emphasis was so
16:01wrong that you you knew it wasn't
16:04correct and it wasn't helpful. Like, I
16:06emphasize words based on what I think is
16:08helpful to the listener, right? So,
16:09like, when we talk about neuroticism, I
16:12emphasize neuroticism because it's a
16:14hard word. I slow it down and I want you
16:16to hear it. The AI doesn't know that's a
16:18hard word. So, it's not going to add
16:20emphasis or more
16:23eloquence to that word to help the
16:25listener understand. Whereas I am
16:26thinking very quickly, what's the most
16:28important word in this sentence? Right.
16:30What's the word that someone's going to
16:31be hard to chance? So, they didn't get
16:32that right. Um
16:34However, however, I think there's a lot
16:36of opportunity
16:38and I am not that scared.
16:40Mostly cuz I don't think it's helpful to
16:42me, but also because I think there's
16:43some things that I literally don't have
16:45time to do that AI can do for me.
16:47Sure. For example, people have asked us,
16:49hey, I would love to have an option on
16:51your website where I could listen to
16:53your articles.
16:55Well, the only way to do that before was
16:56having like a really awful AI voice be
16:58like, "Confidence strategies." It
17:01changed. So, now we can turn on my
17:03voice, so people can list listen to
17:05something kind of like me
17:07Mhm. for the articles. I could never
17:09have time to read all 700 articles on my
17:11website, but at least my voice can kind
17:13of do it. It's better than having
17:15a random AI voice do it.
17:17Sure, sure.
17:17Um I also think that people aren't
17:19thinking about AI in terms of
17:21communication and relationships. I'm
17:23working on a LinkedIn Learning course
17:24right now on AI for communication. Oh,
17:28how did that work? So, we're drafting it
17:29right now. I'm really excited about it
17:31because most people think of AI in terms
17:32of like productivity,
17:34you know, getting things done, being
17:35more efficient. But I'm like, oh, no,
17:37no. AI has it's the shortcut into more
17:40charisma.
17:42So, right now, if you want to write a
17:43charismatic email, for example, it's
17:46hard, right? You have to think um you
17:48know, I the definition of charisma from
17:50the research is a combination of high
17:52warmth and high competence.
17:55Most of our emails that we write
17:56nowadays are very sterile. They lack no
17:59warmth and no competence because we're
18:00in a rush. We're at a thousand emails a
18:02day and it's hard to write warmth and
18:04competent emails. So, first we have to
18:06make our emails not sterile. That's
18:07hard. Then we have to make them the
18:09perfect balance of warm and competent.
18:11Warm is words that inspire connection.
18:13Happy, best, both, collaborate, connect,
18:17um emojis, exclamation points, words
18:19like yay, wait yay, fab, warm, right?
18:22Competent is words that make you want to
18:24get things done.
18:26Power, efficient, brainstorm,
18:30lead, streamline, efficient
18:33numbers, graphs, charts, percents,
18:35dollar signs. Those are all competent.
18:38Right. So, trying to sift through all
18:40the words and replace them and not make
18:42it too long, woo.
18:44That is a lot of brain power. Now, you
18:46are already charismatic, so you have to
18:48work to get yourself into this email.
18:50Who's got time for that, right?
18:52Sure. And most people are one or the
18:53other, right? If they're not not
18:55actively thinking about it.
18:56Most of us have an imbalance. So, a
18:57highly warm person really struggles to
18:59add competence that feels authentic. And
19:02a highly competent person really
19:03struggles to add warmth that feels
19:05authentic. Well, now that we have AI,
19:08you can write
19:10a bare-bones email and you can tell it,
19:12if you know what to tell it, hey, can
19:14you make this both warm, friendly, and
19:16likable, as well as competent, powerful,
19:19and efficient? Mhm. And within 10
19:22seconds, you have a very charismatic
19:24draft for you to edit.
19:27That is efficient charisma. Sure. And
19:30so, I think there's so much wonderful
19:32potential there in terms of
19:35using it to communicate better. So, when
19:37you're spitting that out into the AI
19:40model,
19:41what break that down? So,
19:43assuming most people are having
19:45in-person conversations and they can't
19:46use AI to have these conversations just
19:49yet. Yes. Yes. Never know what's going
19:51to happen.
19:51Yes. What is actually happening that
19:53allows you to have that warmth of
19:56communication but also show competence
19:59in an in-person conversation. Well,
20:02first of all, a lot of my students
20:04I'll I ask them to write first cuz it
20:06trains you.
20:08So,
20:09whether you do that with AI or not, it's
20:11helpful to actually practice with
20:13writing first because it's very hard to
20:15do it in person. So, like I think of it
20:16as like a practice step ladder.
20:18The hardest is in person. That's the
20:21last way I want you to practice because
20:23when you're there's so many inputs
20:25happening right now that we're in
20:26person. We're making eye contact. I'm
20:27looking at you. You're nodding. Your
20:28posture, your hand gestures. I'm
20:30thinking about my posture, my hand
20:31gestures. I'm also very aware that
20:33there's cameras around. It's a lot. So,
20:34to add warmth and competence on top is
20:37too hard. So, okay, don't practice in
20:39person. Then it's the phone. No,
20:40actually that is video. Video like is a
20:42little bit smaller than phone,
20:44then chat, then text, then emails. So, I
20:48actually would like you people to start
20:50actually on those steps because
20:52it does train you to use those words.
20:54So, in person if you were to skip all
20:56the way to the top
20:58there are four ways that we send warmth
21:00and competence.
21:02Our words, that's one way. Our body
21:04language, gestures, posture, facial
21:06expressions. Our voice, our vocal power,
21:09our cadence, our volume, our tone
21:12and our ornaments. The clothes we wear,
21:14what's in our background, our earrings,
21:16your glasses, your watch, what you're
21:18drinking, what you're holding in a
21:19profile picture, what's behind picture,
21:22ornaments.
21:23Yeah. So, you have a lot of options,
21:25four channels that you can choose to
21:28play with because you can add warmth and
21:30competence to any of them. So, my goal
21:32is like okay, I want you to be
21:33authentically warm and competent. I
21:34don't want you to do something that
21:35doesn't feel natural to you. Which
21:37channel do you like the best? Which one
21:38feels the most comfortable to you? And
21:40then I'm going to give you there are 96
21:42cues that you can play with like a
21:43recipe. 96
21:4596 cues. Yes, there are 96 Now, I I
21:48tried to create an encyclopedia of all
21:49the cues and there are probably more
21:51than 96 but I was able to kind of group
21:53them. Like for example, head behavior,
21:56just head behavior alone there's
21:57probably 10 to 12. So, there's up and
21:59down nodding, there's horizontal
22:01nodding, there's the side nodding,
22:04right? There's a head tilt, there's um
22:06uh-huh like fast nodding like impatient.
22:08So, even just in that. So, I try to
22:10bucket them but you have 96 cues at your
22:12disposal to play with. And so, you can
22:14choose which of those channels you want
22:16to optimize first. Okay, I have so many
22:19questions just from that context, right?
22:21So, one of the difficult things that at
22:24least I have when I enter like an
22:26in-person conversation, particularly in
22:28group settings, right? I would say I
22:30think you're an ambivert, right?
22:32I'm similar as well and I do need to
22:33recharge when I'm in these in-person
22:35conversations and when I'm out of
22:38practice, right? Maybe I've been focused
22:41heads down, you know, maybe some of us
22:43have had a baby and they haven't had
22:45that experience of like getting out the
22:47rust of speaking
22:49and I review the 96 cues
22:53but for me, I always seem to be in my
22:57head
22:58during the conversations to know
23:01where my hands should be, to know what
23:04my tone of voice should be, to know what
23:06questions I should ask and I often find
23:08myself not being present sometimes
23:10because of these things that I have to
23:12think about. Is there any things that
23:14you can do before maybe
23:17you go into a group setting that can
23:19help you get maybe a little bit less
23:21social anxiety or just help you kind of
23:24maybe even during the moment to help you
23:26actually have these conversations in a
23:28more natural way and be more present.
23:29Yes, so there's couple answers to this.
23:32I'll give all of them. So, the first one
23:34is your chemistry.
23:36So, there is a lot of research to show
23:38that if we are in a fear mode that is
23:40very contagious. It's
23:42almost impossible
23:45to be charismatic when you're feeling
23:46afraid or anxious.
23:48And that's a big statement, I know, but
23:51um it comes from a study. So, uh they
23:54wanted to study how fear works
23:56socially. So, they brought people into
23:58their lab. They split them up into two
24:00different groups. The first group, they
24:02wore sweat pads,
24:03their horrible sweat suits that catch
24:05your sweat
24:06um under your armpits and they had them
24:08run on a treadmill. Sweaty exercise
24:10sweat.
24:11The second group, they had them wear
24:12sweat pads and skydive for the first
24:14time.
24:16So, fear-induced sweat. They took these
24:19sweat pads and they had unsuspecting
24:21participants but the participants had no
24:23idea what they were smelling smell these
24:25sweat pads. And they had no idea what
24:28they you know, they didn't even know it
24:29was sweat. But they put them in an fMRI
24:31machine and they gave them
24:34to smell these sweat pads. Gross, right?
24:36Um people who smelled the fear sweat
24:40pads, their own fear part of their
24:43amygdala lit up.
24:44So, somehow their brain could smell that
24:48fear sweat and they began to feel
24:51afraid.
24:52Interesting.
24:53And so, this is the first of many
24:55studies there's beginning to look at the
24:57cues that we don't even know we're
24:59sending through our pheromones maybe,
25:01through our
25:02sweat, I mean, you know, right? Or even
25:05like down to cues we can't control, our
25:06blink rate. You know, blink rate is a
25:08cue. I didn't talk about it in my book
25:10because you can't control it. Right. But
25:12higher blink rate is associated with
25:13more nervousness.
25:15You're blinking more. I know. The moment
25:17So, I like I it was in my book and my
25:19editor and I were talking about it and I
25:20was like, you know what? I'm going to
25:20take it out because the moment someone
25:21thinks about their blink rate, they
25:22start blinking more. It's a horrible
25:24affliction. It's a really weird thing.
25:26So, there's all all these cues that we
25:27don't even can't even control. Okay. So,
25:29one is before you even show up. I think
25:31it's really important to work on your
25:33chemistry. That's twofold. Do not go to
25:36events that make you really anxious or
25:38nervous. I I am a big believer in that.
25:39If there's someone that you're dreading
25:40seeing, don't see them.
25:43Cut
25:45them out of your life.
25:47Sure, yeah. Right? Like I don't go. So,
25:49for example, I was at a big conference.
25:50We were talking about it.
25:52I did not go to the welcome party.
25:54The welcome party is not for me. Yeah,
25:55me neither. Ambiverts, I I cannot do it.
25:58Loud, really big spaces
26:01with like lots of wandering around, not
26:03for me. I did not go to the closing
26:04party. I love the workshops.
26:07I love the books talks. I love sitting
26:09in the audience and listening. I love
26:11like the sidebar conversations. So, I
26:13know I say know that about yourself.
26:15Like don't put yourself in those
26:16situations cuz it's really hard to be
26:17charismatic. Second, if you have to go
26:19to one of those conversations or you're
26:20a little bit nervous, I do think that
26:22laughter is sort of like the secret key
26:26to unlocking and changing your
26:27chemistry. It releases all kinds of
26:28endorphins. It makes you feel happier
26:31and so, I have a laughter playlist that
26:33I watch on YouTube which is like a ton
26:34of funny videos. Yeah, yeah. That's what
26:36I'm doing when I'm putting on makeup.
26:37That's what I'm doing like before I walk
26:39into a room. I'll call a funny friend. I
26:41listen to funny podcasts. Like I think
26:43laughter like it immediately snaps you
26:45out of it. That's that. Um
26:48the second thing So, we talked about
26:50what the question was about going into
26:52an event that makes you a little bit
26:54nervous. And if you can, try to have a
26:56wingman. Wingman or wingwoman helps.
26:58Yeah. Yeah, very interesting. One of the
27:00cues that we we didn't talk about, you
27:02know, we talked a lot about like the
27:04different ornaments and the physical
27:05natures but one thing that I was curious
27:08about is smell. And smell as we just
27:11brought up is the only thing that you
27:13can
27:14actually go through when you're in an
27:16in-person experience where you're job
27:18interview or a date or an interview like
27:20this. So,
27:23talk to me a bit about smell
27:25between different genders as well and
27:29what are kind of what's like a safe
27:31smell that you can use for any different
27:34scenarios that yeah, just allows you to
27:37be There's so much research being done
27:39on this which is really exciting. So,
27:41there's like the pheromone inside of
27:42things and the synthetic side of things.
27:44So, your natural scent versus scents you
27:45can add. So, one is there is somehow a
27:48scent to fear, right? Like that's why
27:50getting your chemistry right is the most
27:52sexy thing you can do. Like confidence I
27:53think has a smell in its own way. That's
27:55why I said like laughter I think is the
27:57fastest way. So, that's one thing. The
27:59second thing is in terms of attraction,
28:01they've done a lot of research on this
28:02where they take
28:03like people's worn shirts and they have
28:05couples smell shirts.
28:08You know, and they you actually go to
28:10speed dating events that are based on
28:12smell. I think it's called smell dating
28:14actually.
28:15And they are very effective. We can tell
28:18a lot about someone by if our smells
28:21match up and so You're talking about the
28:23natural pheromones, not the perfume,
28:25right?
28:25they literally people had to wear I
28:27think these shirts for two days, no
28:29deodorant, no soap, no lotions. And they
28:33put them in Ziploc bags and then you
28:35smell and you pick your partner that you
28:37want to go on another little speed date
28:38with.
28:39Yes. And by the way, this is like so
28:41weird. One of the studies I read, I
28:43forget which one it was, they added in
28:45siblings' shirts and people thought
28:48their siblings were disgusting. No way.
28:51rated people and like across the board
28:54people anyone they didn't know was their
28:56sibling's scent, they rated that one as
28:58like the lowest, most unattractive
29:01scent. So, like there's something to it.
29:03Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. Like there there's
29:05a lot of research on this. It's so
29:06interesting. So,
29:07your natural scent I actually think is
29:09most important.
29:11I think it does it can attract the right
29:13person. Now, do I want you to come in
29:14like sweaty from the gym? No, but do I
29:17love dating at the gym? Yes.
29:20Do I highly recommend trying to date in
29:24scenarios where your scent will be
29:27more prominent? Yeah, like go on like
29:30meet up hike hike meet ups. Like go to
29:32the beach. You know, meet someone at the
29:35gym. Go to dance classes. Like
29:38yeah, like there's something to that.
29:40Like if you're looking for your partner
29:42That's kind of what people talk about
29:43maybe like around vibe. Like I just
29:45can't explain it but I just feel so
29:47comfortable around this person
29:48physically.
29:49Yes.
29:49Yes. Yes. Okay, the other really weird
29:51thing is, this is like the weirdest
29:53you're going to be like, "What?" Okay,
29:55so there was a study so researchers know
29:57that smell is really powerful. So much
29:59so that there was a hypothesis which
30:01proved to be true that we really like to
30:04smell people, but it's socially
30:06unacceptable to smell each other, right?
30:09Um they think it's one of the reasons
30:10why we get so close to handshake is cuz
30:12like that we get into smelling distance.
30:13It's why a lot of cultures hug or cheek
30:15kiss is cuz even bowing like we're
30:17getting closer to their scent, right?
30:19When you bow you're actually getting
30:20closer to where their neck is exposed.
30:22Okay.
30:23So their hypothesis was that
30:27if you handshake with someone in the
30:29next 10 seconds you will touch your own
30:31nose cuz you're trying to smell their
30:33hand.
30:34You mean like
30:35So like we shake hands.
30:36Shake hands. Your nose will start to
30:38itch in like the next 10 seconds or
30:39you'll really want to touch your face.
30:42Like I do. Yeah.
30:44to touch my nose very bad.
30:45Right. Right.
30:47I mean I'm like actively think I'm
30:48trying not to actively think about it
30:50just for the sake of it, but
30:52they they're what they studied is that
30:53your nose like kind of tingles Yeah.
30:56because it wants you to bring your hand
30:58to your nose so you can kind of smell
31:00it. It's just the weirdest
31:02just bringing it back, right?
31:03But like wa- watch. So like this is the
31:05this is the weirdest thing I've ever
31:06seen on YouTube, but like go to a
31:08networking event or a business event and
31:10just watch. You will see that people
31:13will shake hands within like 10 to 15
31:15seconds they inexplicably touch their
31:17nose or their face.
31:18Right. Something around it you're
31:19saying.
31:19Something around it cuz their hypothesis
31:21is it's our way of like very subtly
31:23being like, "Are we good? Like do we
31:25have like chemical match?" And now that
31:27I'm aware of it it drives me crazy cuz I
31:28don't want to touch my nose after Right.
31:30Right. One thing I do is I when I'm at a
31:32networking event let's say like I have
31:34an instinct of grabbing my drink.
31:36Mhm. Cuz maybe I don't want to not just
31:38actively touch my nose, but this is
31:40pretty much touching my nose, right?
31:42Yeah, that is a for sure thing.
31:43Or like touch your glasses. Yes.
31:45really want to itch my nose right now.
31:47Like it actively itches. Interesting. I
31:50wasn't itching before. And is do you
31:52think that's just for even Oh, this is
31:55not dating. This is this is anyone.
31:57Any Yeah, this is any because
31:59their hypothesis in the study is that
32:01as humans we're looking for just
32:03chemical match ups and also we want to
32:06see are you afraid?
32:08Right? Like from a caveman perspective
32:10wouldn't you want to know if someone was
32:11with you if they were afraid? That would
32:13tell you something.
32:13Right. And so there's a lot more
32:15research to be done in this area, but um
32:18so natural smell is something. And then
32:20the last thing is synthetic smell. So
32:23they just studied this. I just put it on
32:24my YouTube channel. The most popular
32:27scent in the world on humans so like not
32:29just like in a room is vanilla.
32:32So for for women and men I don't I've
32:34never smelled a man who smelled like
32:35vanilla, but I wear vanilla perfume
32:37because of that study. Well, you and you
32:39weren't wearing that before? No, because
32:41I
32:42I this is a a study I've known about. I
32:43wear I've been wearing it forever
32:44because of that study. And that's just a
32:46neutral thing that allows you to have
32:48like trust, likeability, all of these
32:50combined or what what's the deal there?
32:52think um that food related scents make
32:55us happy because
32:56food we like food. We like it makes us
32:58feel safe and vanilla is a food related
33:00scent, right? Like it is and so um that
33:04maybe there's something to that. I think
33:05there is something to that like you know
33:07realtors will often bake cookies in the
33:09oven before they show a house because
33:11they're sitting there walking into a
33:12house and smelling freshly baked cookies
33:14that makes you feel at home.
33:15Sure. Right? Um and so I think it works
33:17like I've done all kinds of very casual
33:20experiments with food related scents. Um
33:23if I did a ridiculous experiment back in
33:26my early days where I read a study that
33:29people like men especially like Yeah.
33:32food related scents on women. And this
33:34is when I was single. I'm married now,
33:36but um I thought this was like a
33:37hilarious study and so I took I popped
33:40popcorn in the microwave and then I
33:41opened the bags and I rubbed the buttery
33:43inside of the bag all over my arms and
33:45my neck.
33:46And then you went to the gym? No, then I
33:48went to a frat party. Oh. And like and
33:50like I was like dancing with a guy and
33:51he was like, "Dang, you smell good." And
33:53I was like, "Wow, it is flat out butter
33:56popcorn." But he smells but he actually
33:58commented on it. I didn't do it again
34:00cuz it really is greasy and it makes you
34:01break out, but but
34:04it did work. Like literally the guy was
34:06like, "Dang, you smell good." And I was
34:08like, "It is literally popcorn butter."
34:09That's so fascinating. And you think
34:11it'll work for women as well or do you
34:12think it'll it's more for men? I don't
34:14think a woman would be like into a guy
34:16that smelled like a movie theater.
34:17Right. Right.
34:19That's just
34:20a head thing.
34:21Only men would be
34:23I think but like I would be so open to
34:26someone running that experiment. Like
34:28you know go out smell like some popcorn
34:29and just like see what happens.
34:31Wow. Okay, yeah this is why I so
34:33interested like smell is is not
34:35something people really think about so
34:36much, right? We think more on our visual
34:38sense.
34:39Um but this really aligns around the
34:42topic around trust, right? Kind of
34:44building that trust when you first meet
34:46someone.
34:47Maybe it's not just around smell, but
34:49what are some things that we can do?
34:51Maybe we haven't met this person before
34:53or maybe we are trying to sell something
34:56to someone or negotiate and we just want
34:58to build that trust, but there's not a
34:59lot of time, right? Cuz I think people
35:01can do that through email.
35:03You don't need time.
35:04Talk to me.
35:05Trust is built almost immediately like
35:07in the first few seconds. And so um
35:09actually less time is sometimes easier
35:12um because our instincts so
35:14research is very clear on this that we
35:15make our first impression in the first
35:17few seconds of seeing someone. It's
35:19solidified as we start to talk to them,
35:21but it's very very quickly. That's cuz
35:23our brain wants to take shortcuts and
35:25it's also
35:27in the first few seconds it's hard to
35:28lie to someone and so we're trying to
35:29like look and see like size someone up
35:31very very quickly. So it's good news I
35:33think. It means you only have to worry
35:34about the first few seconds really and
35:36if you're showing up authentically and
35:37you're not going to an event that you
35:38don't like it's easier to show those
35:40trust signals.
35:41Um the way that I like to think about it
35:42is you want to show that you were on the
35:44same page as someone
35:46physically on the same page as someone.
35:49Yes. And so we like people who are
35:51engaged fully with us and aligned with
35:53us. So that's what I would think about
35:55as like alignment. So that goes all the
35:56way from our toes to our head. So you'll
35:58notice like we are angling towards each
36:00other. It would be hard if I were
36:02sitting like this
36:05and talking like this to you.
36:06I've had interviews like that.
36:07It feels weird, right?
36:08Yeah, I just feel like I
36:10I want to
36:11just go here you know just to align.
36:12Yeah.
36:13There is something about it and I
36:14actually it not only disengages you to
36:16me. It also disengages me to you. Mhm.
36:18So um physically aligning so as you're
36:20talking to someone seated or standing
36:22video or not like I drives me crazy when
36:24I see people on video with their video
36:25camera here and they're typing here and
36:26they're like, "Uh-huh. Uh-huh." Right?
36:29Like I don't I don't I I love it like
36:30this camera is right here like I can
36:31align with everyone watching to say like
36:33I respect you. I hope you don't use a
36:35lot from like you know all the way over
36:37there, but
36:38um
36:39So physical alignment toes, torso, head.
36:42Toes, torso, head it's called fronting,
36:43right? So angling our our we're on the
36:45same railroad tracks. That's the very
36:46first thing and try and you'd be
36:48surprised how often we do it
36:49accidentally where people will pull
36:50back. Mhm. You think you do this, but
36:53you'd be shocked at how often people
36:55will pull their shoulder back. It's
36:56called blading.
36:56Is that because they're not comfortable
36:58or they want to get out of the
36:59situation?
37:01Um don't want to seem too eager. Ah.
37:04that sort of thing of like, "Hey, what's
37:06up? Guys do that a lot, right? And more
37:08than girls, okay. Um and so you'd be
37:11surprised how often you will catch
37:12yourself blading pulling your shoulder
37:13back or or even like you know leaning
37:15back and angling away. So angling
37:17forward um eye contact is the next kind
37:20of alignment, right? We like we want to
37:21make eye contact. It doesn't have to be
37:22100%. Right. So 100% eye contact is
37:25actually an invasive cue, right? Like if
37:27someone's like staring you down it's
37:28like very weird, right? So it's 60 to
37:3070% eye contact. Okay. Right? So as
37:33you're meeting, "Oh, it's so good to see
37:34you." It's okay to look away. It's okay
37:36to be like, "Oh my gosh, this is such a
37:37great place."
37:38Sure. Sure. 60 to 70% eye contact
37:40produces oxytocin which makes us want to
37:42connect and bond.
37:44Um and then the next
37:46smiling if you feel authentic. I never
37:48want someone to be like smiling when
37:50they don't feel like smiling. That's
37:51actually a bad cue.
37:53How do you know if someone is having an
37:55inauthentic smile?
37:57smile doesn't reach all the way up into
37:59the upper cheek muscles. So these upper
38:01cheek muscles they pull up your smile.
38:02So if I like I can smile like this.
38:05There's no activation up here. Right?
38:07This is a total fake smile.
38:09Right? Makes everyone uncomfortable if
38:11I'm like, "Hey, good to see you." Yeah.
38:13Right? Like that is also a pet peeve of
38:15someone walks into a room or hops on the
38:16call, "Hey, yeah good to see you."
38:20It feels bad. I would rather you say,
38:21"Hey, it's nice to see you."
38:23Right.
38:23I would much rather you take away that
38:24smile. So if you feel like smiling
38:26great. That's an alignment cue. If you
38:28don't do not fake it till you make it
38:31in that area.
38:32Um you know someone is actually happy to
38:34see you when it reaches all the way up
38:36in that upper. Right. They got that the
38:37crow crow's yeah. Yeah. Crow's feet only
38:40one in 10 people can consciously
38:42activate those muscles. So when you see
38:44them activated you almost always know
38:45that it's real. Okay. It's hard to fake
38:47that.
38:48Right. Right. Um you can do it with
38:50practice. Like I can do it cuz I've
38:51practiced it enough, but um it took me
38:53like a year. Yeah, and you're an expert.
38:55So most people you'll you'll know this
38:57is the sign. Okay. Um and the next one
38:59if you're able to do it is like vocal
39:01alignment and this is like advanced,
39:02right? This is like very advanced. So
39:04this is for my people who really want to
39:06dial in their communication. So vocal
39:08alignment is when you
39:10try to match and mirror the voice that
39:12you hear. Not mimic them, but I'll give
39:14you an example. So have you ever seen
39:16two girls greet each other where they
39:17go, "Oh my god, it's so good to see you.
39:19Hi." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
39:21What they're actually doing is vocal
39:22alignment. They're they're actually
39:24showing, "I love you so much. We're
39:25meeting in the same way. Go away,
39:26fling."
39:27Okay. But so it's not fake you're
39:29saying. When you when you see that this
39:31is just
39:31do. This right? We do this. So um I
39:34believe I believe there was a study that
39:36looked at
39:37Larry King interviews.
39:39I forget exactly what it was, but they
39:40found that people match the vocal tone,
39:43cadence, pitch of the most powerful
39:45person in the room. Got it.
39:47So, we are already all already doing
39:49this.
39:49Right. Right. Um but I like to bring
39:50awareness to it um because it's a way
39:52that if you're nervous sometimes you can
39:54miss it. Right? Like you're so wrapped
39:55up in your own nervousness that you're
39:57like a lot of the times people will hold
39:59their breath on their first words.
40:00They'll go, "Hey!
40:03Good to see you." Right. Right. Right.
40:04Right.
40:05like thrown away that that first word.
40:08So, like I like you have a much more
40:10like calm energy. Yeah. Right? So, like
40:12when I'm talking to you, I'm I bring my
40:15vocal tone down. Mhm. I speak a little
40:17bit more calmly. When I'm talking to my
40:19girlfriends,
40:21I talk much faster.
40:24Are you? Oh, very much.
40:26Okay. So, if you go watch interview with
40:28Lisa Bilyeu. So, Lisa Bilyeu is one of
40:30my girlfriends. I love her. And in
40:32Impact Theory, you'll notice I talk
40:34differently.
40:34It is different then. I I I I match up
40:36cuz she's like she's like here. She's
40:38talking like this. She's
40:39very animated. She's like, "Hey girl,
40:40I'm so excited to have you here." And I
40:42am, too. Right. Right.
40:44I'm trying to respect you by like
40:46matching where you you where you're at
40:48um cuz it's your home it's your
40:49interview, right? So, I want to match
40:51where you're at. And so, that's a very
40:53advanced way
40:54Mhm. that you can do that. Got it. Now,
40:57the reverse. When you're trying to see
41:03if someone is trying to let's say
41:05manipulate you or if someone is lying to
41:07you,
41:09I'm more certainly more on the other
41:11side where like I'm I am trying to be
41:13more aware of that, but some people are
41:15just they're not they're not there,
41:17right? They're they just kind of miss
41:18all these different signals.
41:19Totally. So, what are some of the simple
41:21ones that you can look out for that
41:23okay, like this is a pretty obvious
41:25signal?
41:26someone's like
41:27it's a signal of like
41:29I shouldn't trust this person. Is that
41:31what we're looking for?
41:31Yeah, more like red flags around that.
41:33Right. So, when we're looking for I
41:35shouldn't trust this person, what you're
41:36looking for is mismatches. Mhm. So, when
41:40someone is congruent, their words match
41:42their tone, match their body, like it's
41:44all in alignment. You're like, yes. When
41:46you see mismatches, that's when you're
41:48like, what? Like what's happening? So,
41:50this can happen in a lot of different
41:51ways. So, the very most obvious way is
41:54facial expressions towards Okay. So, if
41:56someone says, "I'm so happy to be here."
42:00Yeah.
42:01And they look so unhappy. Mismatch,
42:04right?
42:04So, okay, in that sense I wouldn't think
42:06they're a con man, but I would think uh
42:07they're having a hard day and they're
42:08trying for me. You know, right? Like I
42:10was like, "Okay, I'm going to try to
42:11make it easy on them cuz they're not
42:13having a good time." Sure. Sure.
42:14someone's saying they're happy and not
42:16being happy is the first big one. The
42:18other one that I look out for a lot is
42:20contempt. So, contempt is a one-sided
42:23mouth raise. So, one Yep.
42:26Um we tend to think of it as like a
42:27smirk,
42:28kind of partial happiness, but actually
42:30it's like quite a negative
42:31microexpression. It means like disdain
42:33or superiority. Mhm. So, people will
42:35often do it when they're like,
42:37right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you
42:39mentioned this in the last one where you
42:41were able to predict like a crazy amount
42:44of chances that they they would be
42:45divorced or just from that one
42:47expression.
42:47Gottman can predict with 93.6%
42:50accuracy if a couple will get divorced
42:52by looking for contempt. That's wild.
42:55So, that's a mismatch. Someone saying um
42:58yes, I love her.
43:01Right? Like that is that's that's a
43:03mismatch. I would want to dig deeper in
43:04that. Usually doesn't happen in that
43:06obvious of a way. Usually it's like
43:08you're in a meeting
43:10and you share an idea and someone goes
43:13Yeah, you got to pay attention, right?
43:15Just to see that.
43:15That's when I'm like, mhm, like that
43:17idea did not resonate. And that doesn't
43:19mean the idea is bad. It means you have
43:20to explain it a different way. Maybe
43:21they have a question. Maybe they have
43:23self-hate. Like you don't always know
43:24where the contempt is there, but it's a
43:26mismatch of this should be a creative
43:27brainstorm session and for some reason
43:28you're showing disdain, superiority,
43:31disrespect.
43:32So, contempt is a mismatch. I like to
43:34look for more subtle ones are mismatches
43:37in hand gestures or mismatches in body
43:40language gestures. So, for example, if
43:42in this culture in American culture in
43:43Western cultures, this means yes up and
43:46down nod means yes. A horizontal nod
43:48means no. It's different in India,
43:50Pakistan, and Bulgaria. Right. India is
43:52is this is yes. Yeah. Yeah. It could be
43:54either.
43:55So, in Western cultures so, if someone
43:57says, you know,
43:59yeah, I really like her.
44:02And they're shaking their head no.
44:04That's a little bit of an odd mismatch,
44:06right?
44:06Do people do that though? Like without
44:08they just don't think about it, right?
44:10But they just All the time because
44:11someone's like So, you say, "Hey, what
44:12do you think of the new girl?"
44:14Well,
44:15Yeah. Yeah, she's
44:17great.
44:19Right? Cuz they're like, what do I say?
44:20What do I say? What do I say? What do I
44:21say? What do I say? Right?
44:22Right. Now, you have to be careful
44:23because some people use body language
44:25gestures as what are called punctuators.
44:28Punctuators like there's
44:31there's a famous interview. I forgot who
44:32it is. Either like Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy
44:33Fallon where they do this all the time.
44:35Like they're constantly shaking their
44:36head no. So, for them that's how that's
44:38how they emphasize their words. That
44:39wouldn't But if someone all of a sudden
44:41is like
44:43you know, she's great. Right.
44:45She's great. Right? With with like a lip
44:47purse,
44:48which is like a withholding gesture,
44:50that's like a mismatch. Yeah. Right?
44:51Like that's something's not right there
44:53or um
44:54liars are very bad with matching their
44:56hand gestures to their words. In our
44:59lab, we studied liars. I love I'm
45:01fascinated by by deceivers
45:04um because I think it's so interesting
45:05what happens to our body in guilt, which
45:06is a little bit different than fear.
45:07Mhm. So, liars have a really hard time
45:10with tense. So, um if something true
45:14happened in the past, I use past tense.
45:16Oh, what did you what did you do on the
45:18night of the incident? Right. Well, I
45:20went to my girlfriend's house. I we
45:21watched a movie. We brushed our teeth.
45:23We had a little snack. We went to bed.
45:25All past. A liar didn't really happen
45:28and they rehearsed parts of it. And so,
45:29they'll mess up their tenses. What
45:31happened the night of the incident? I
45:33went over to my girlfriend's house and
45:35we're watching a movie
45:36and we realize we realize we have to
45:39brush our teeth. So, I brush my teeth.
45:41Like the tenses are not right.
45:43he's actively thinking about it. Okay.
45:44like and they're and they're rehearsing
45:46and like in in in their mind it's
45:47present. Interesting.
45:49Right. So, they mess up tenses. They
45:50also mess up gestures. So, for example,
45:52it's really hard to lie with our
45:54gestures. So, if I were to say okay,
45:56let's do an experiment. So, will you
45:58please hold up the number three, but say
46:01four?
46:02Four.
46:03Horrible, right? Yeah, it's hard.
46:05try it. Four.
46:06Yeah, my eyes also just went that way
46:08for a little bit. I don't know if you
46:09saw that.
46:10Probably be like that's you're working
46:11really hard.
46:12Yeah. It's really hard to do that. So,
46:13if I say I have a big idea, very hard.
46:16Like my brain does not like it. And so,
46:18liars, their gestures are often true.
46:21Huh. So, like you'll see like leaks in
46:25mismatches in their gestures or no hand
46:27gestures at all. Yeah, that's
46:28fascinating.
46:29they'll like
46:30grip their hands cuz they don't want to
46:32give themselves away. And the more you
46:33know this person and the patterns of how
46:35they respond or act, the the easier that
46:39it is to be able to tell that, right?
46:41Yes. So, like in chapter six, I talk
46:42about how to spot a bad guy. Right? Like
46:44how to spot a bad guy or a bad girl,
46:45whatever.
46:46Which is knowing understanding their
46:48patterns, their baselines, and also
46:50understanding your own patterns and
46:51baselines. Mhm. So, this is not just for
46:53others. Like I think it's a fundamental
46:55life skill that everyone should know
46:57what they do when they lie.
46:59Not to be better liars, but to catch
47:01yourself when you feel like you're
47:02lying. Like there like I know what my
47:04tells are, right? And so, in the book,
47:06very easy I can go through the exercise.
47:08Um you turn on your video camera.
47:10You share what you had for breakfast
47:12yesterday.
47:14Tell me your most embarrassing story.
47:16Make up an embarrassing story and try to
47:17convince me it's true. Okay? So, that's
47:19what you record.
47:21Um that's how you recall what you had
47:23for breakfast yesterday. What you
47:24whatever you're doing when you recall,
47:25looking up to the left, touching your
47:28face, that's your recall truth
47:30behaviors. Your most embarrassing story
47:32are your recall nervous behaviors.
47:35What you do when you're recalling
47:36something that made you feel really
47:37nervous to differentiate nervousness and
47:38guilt. Yeah. And then your embar- fake
47:41embarrassing story is what you do when
47:42you're pretending. Got it. Got it.
47:45a very quick exercise
47:47that helps you identify I know what my
47:49tells are. Like I know what I do when I
47:51lie. What what are your tells? I'm not
47:52going to tell you.
47:53Are you crazy?
47:56That is private information. Don't tell
47:58anyone your tells.
48:00Okay, I'll tell you that later. Yeah,
48:01don't tell anyone your tells. Yeah. But
48:03you know what's most helpful is when I
48:05catch myself in self-deception.
48:08Ah.
48:08Like I have been with people and they'll
48:10ask me questions and I'm like, oh my
48:12gosh, I am lying.
48:14Like it I caught I've it's been so
48:16helpful to me cuz I catch myself when
48:18I'm lying to myself That's super
48:21interesting. And so, like that's why I
48:23think it's a really helpful skill is
48:24like I think we actually lie to
48:25ourselves far more than we lie to anyone
48:26else.
48:27For sure. For sure. And it's just the
48:28inner voice in our heads, right? Yeah.
48:31And it could be even limiting beliefs. I
48:33would imagine people that tell
48:34themselves that they should not earn
48:37certain money or deserve this kind of
48:39person. We don't even realize it and
48:42maybe there are gestures that we can be
48:44more aware of Yeah, like to tell that.
48:46You'll see like you'll you'll do your
48:47guilt gestures when talking about
48:49certain certain things about yourself.
48:51Or there's certain people
48:54that you notice you use a lot of those
48:57tells with that person and you're like,
48:59I was like, why?
49:01And I realized like they kind of make me
49:03lie a little bit. Like To downplay.
49:07Yeah, or I know certain things about
49:09them that I'm afraid to say.
49:12And so, I'm enabling bad behavior.
49:14Because you don't think they'll be happy
49:16for you or
49:17No. No. Like I have someone who has
49:20their own toxic patterns. This is the
49:21person who I realized it with. And I was
49:23enabling that bad behavior by not saying
49:25anything. Right? So, like if you have a
49:26toxic person in your life or difficult
49:28person,
49:29you can tiptoe around the issues, the
49:31elephants in the room. Yeah. And I
49:33realized like I was doing it a lot
49:34around them where I was like trying to
49:36be like extra careful cuz I was worried
49:39that if I said something I'd offend
49:40them. Ah, got it.
49:42Cuz I don't want to tell them the truth.
49:44And that I was like, I don't want this
49:45relationship. It was a really like
49:47amazing moment personally cuz I was
49:49like, "Whoa." Yeah. Why am I dancing
49:53around truth around this person? Like
49:54it's not serving me. It is making me
49:56nervous. It is making me lie. I pride
49:59myself in not being a liar. And so it
50:01made me really step back from that
50:02relationship cuz I was like, "I don't
50:04want to do this around them." And I
50:06didn't realize how often I was
50:08dancing around things.
50:09That's so fascinating. So all of these
50:10gestures that we're just not even
50:12realizing, it can not only help us to
50:15see if someone is
50:16perhaps lying or not being truthful, but
50:18we can also realize who are the people
50:20in our lives that we're doing this to
50:22ourselves too. Yeah, and it's not just
50:23gestures by the way. A lot of it can be
50:25vocal. So for example, one of the most
50:27common
50:29lying red flags that which this is one
50:31of mine and I actually worked on it a
50:32lot because I also do it when I'm
50:34nervous. Mhm.
50:35Um so is the question inflection used on
50:37a statement. So the question inflection
50:39is when you go up at the end of your
50:40sentence. Like you're asking a question.
50:42Like every Canadian. But it's actually a
50:44statement. Yes, New Zealanders and
50:45Canadians do this, yeah.
50:46do this a lot.
50:47And I think that's actually one of the
50:48reasons so there's research on this
50:49Yeah. why we sometimes research I this
50:53is not my opinion
50:54research when we look at cultures,
50:56cultures that use the question
50:58inflection are typically seen as less
50:59competent. Mhm. I think it's because
51:01they're literally their accent is
51:03questioning.
51:03That's so true. Canadians are too nice,
51:06right?
51:06Exactly. And so like sometimes Canadians
51:08will question their own name. My name is
51:10Vanessa? Yeah. Right, which is an
51:12immediate like
51:14dip in confidence. So
51:16um vocal tone is a huge cue. It's not
51:18just gestures. So for example, people
51:19will often ask the lie. So one of the
51:22things we did in our lab is we had
51:23people record two truths and a lie Okay.
51:26for us. So that's a very fun game. You
51:28deliver two truths and one lie and we
51:30try to guess which is the lie. And
51:31people often asked their lie. So they
51:34would say for me, um can you guess which
51:37one is the lie?
51:39I live in Austin, Texas.
51:41I love dogs.
51:42I love cilantro.
51:44Right. Right, okay? So I made it obvious
51:46for you, but people will often ask it
51:48cuz they're asking, "Do you believe me?"
51:50So it's not just gestures. It's it's
51:51vocal tone. It's cadence changes, tense
51:54changes.
51:55Yeah. Wow. And someone that's like at an
51:57advanced level, they'll know that the
51:59other person is thinking that and yeah,
52:01you got to use those powers to to good
52:02use, guys.
52:03like I have a whole section of the book
52:04of like, "Use these powers for good, not
52:06evil." Right. Because they they can be
52:09used for evil. They can. People do.
52:12I mean, you know,
52:14how we wield our influence is the choice
52:18we have to make. And so I had a real
52:21difficult kind of like a existential
52:23crisis writing my last book because I
52:25was worried.
52:26I was like, "What if people use this to
52:27be manipulative?" And the truth is they
52:29could. Mhm.
52:30Um and so I try to give as many positive
52:32examples as possible. I also think that
52:34people who use cues in a manipulative
52:36way with bad intention, they will
52:38eventually be caught. Yeah. We cannot
52:41control our scent. We cannot control
52:43every cue. We cannot control our blink
52:44rate. We cannot control our pupi- pupil
52:46dilation. We cannot control nasal wing
52:48flare. We cannot control a lot of cues.
52:50And so I think that um bad actors will
52:52eventually be caught because if you have
52:54bad intention what that's all we're
52:56looking for is do you have good
52:57intention towards me? And so it'll only
52:59last for so long. For sure.
53:00That's at least what I tell myself. As I
53:01was writing the book, I was like, "Uh."
53:03Well, the I would imagine the far
53:05majority of the work that you're putting
53:06out would allow people to tell more
53:09easily those people that are being more
53:11manipulative or using it in a negative
53:12light. So I 100% think that's the case.
53:15Yeah. Um final kind of point around
53:18this idea of feeling guilty or feeling
53:21certain ways when we're with others.
53:24Yeah. One thing that I suffer with, I
53:25don't know if this is something for you,
53:26but
53:27not so much anymore, but I know a lot of
53:29people are going through this which is
53:30imposter syndrome.
53:31Yeah.
53:32Whether they achieve a certain amount of
53:33success or maybe they're not and they're
53:38still not thinking that they're worthy
53:40of it or having these limiting beliefs
53:42around it. Um
53:45what are some ways that we can improve
53:48our self-talk? Mhm. Right, not the way
53:50we communicate with others, but
53:51ourselves to help us feel more
53:55comfortable with
53:57you know, being interesting, right,
53:58around others
53:59Mhm. and not being too humble or too
54:02down on ourselves where we don't even
54:05get the attention that we deserve for
54:07the work that we're doing. Mhm. Um well,
54:10first of all, I think that if you feel
54:12imposter syndrome, it means you're doing
54:14something right. Mhm.
54:16And what I mean by that is
54:19people who are doing big things, who are
54:21pushing their boundaries, who are
54:22stepping outside of their comfort zone,
54:23almost always feel imposter syndrome.
54:26So I would say one, it means you're
54:27probably pushing yourself. Right? Like
54:30you wouldn't feel imposter syndrome if
54:31you were in a safe place. Right.
54:33And so that means like maybe you're
54:34reaching. Good. Right? Like maybe you're
54:37up-leveling. Great. Maybe you're out of
54:39your comfort zone. Okay. Fun things
54:41happen outside of our comfort zone. So
54:43that's the first reframe is like at
54:45least you're feeling something that is
54:47challenging. Like at least you're not so
54:49safe and hiding. I think some of them
54:52sometimes the opposite of feeling
54:53imposter syndrome could be hiding. Of
54:54course, another opposite is confidence
54:55which I would prefer. But I think it
54:57means like you're doing something big
54:59and good. Right? And so I think that's a
55:01good thing. So that should be commended.
55:03So if you feel it, it means all right.
55:04Like learning is around the corner. Like
55:07that's a good thing. And so that's the
55:08first reframe is like it it doesn't mean
55:10you're doing something wrong. Okay. I
55:12think a lot of people feel like, "Oh my
55:13god, I feel imposter syndrome. I'm
55:14wrong. I'm doing something wrong. I'm
55:16not in the right place." No. It means
55:18you're doing something right. That's the
55:19first thing. The second thing is the
55:22only way I have a lot of imposter
55:23syndrome and a lot of awkwardness. I
55:24call myself a recovering awkward person.
55:27The only way I'm able to get out of
55:29that, like out of my head, out of
55:31feeling that way especially interactions
55:32or even like doing interviews or YouTube
55:34videos
55:35is this study. This is a study that
55:38changed my life.
55:39Okay. Let's dig in. So I think imposter
55:42syndrome comes from when we're trying to
55:44impress people. We're trying to be
55:46smart. We're trying to be um likable.
55:48We're trying to be funny. Right? It
55:50happens when we're trying to be
55:51something and have people think a
55:52certain way about us.
55:54Successful, smart, impressive.
55:56That is a lot of pressure. It's almost
55:58impossible to not feel that way when
56:00we're trying to have someone think that
56:01we're amazing. Right? Such that we don't
56:03feel amazing.
56:05It's too much pressure. So it's a
56:06different paradigm to think about.
56:08So this is a research study that looked
56:09at popular kids.
56:12Like high school or
56:14The original connectors, right? So they
56:17studied thousands of high school
56:19students across a variety of high
56:21schools. And they wanted to look for
56:23patterns of popularity.
56:25Why were certain kids popular in these
56:28schools and in grades? In each grade in
56:30each school.
56:31And they had hypotheses. They thought,
56:33"Well, maybe they're the smartest. Do
56:34they have the highest GPA? Maybe they're
56:36most they're most athletic. They're
56:38quarterback or whatever, right? Cheer-
56:40head cheerleader. Are they the most most
56:42athletic? Are they the funniest? Are
56:44they the tallest? Are they the richest?"
56:47They looked at all these things that we
56:49often think of for being likable,
56:50popular, impressive, successful.
56:52Um none of those
56:54were patterns.
56:55No, there there were kids who were
56:56popular because they were athletic, but
56:58that was not the pattern for all the
56:59kids. There was one single big pattern
57:03for all the popular kids
57:05across all the schools. Funny? Nope. And
57:08And wouldn't it be horrible if it was
57:09funny? How much pressure to know you
57:12have to be funny at all times, right? So
57:14thank goodness, no.
57:15Okay.
57:16Um
57:17Did we say looks?
57:19Not looks. That was a big hypothesis.
57:21Not looks.
57:21That was That's what I thought it would
57:22be. Okay, those were my answers.
57:24kids that were attractive. But that
57:25wasn't every popular kid was attractive.
57:27Okay.
57:29I don't know. I mean, I was not popular,
57:31so this is definitely not it.
57:33I'm not like, "What am I?" No, I'm
57:35having to guess very far away from what
57:37I was just saying, "Why do you think I
57:38read this study like with baited
57:39breath?" I was like, "WHAT IS IT?" YOU
57:40SAID IT CHANGED your life, so I was
57:41like, yeah, it would have been that.
57:43I read this in high school actually, but
57:44I didn't wasn't out then. No, I feel
57:46you. Okay. So the pattern was
57:48the popular kids had the longest list of
57:51other kids that they liked.
57:54That one of the things they asked every
57:56kid was list
57:58all the kids in your school that you
57:59like.
58:01And the popular kids had the longest
58:03list. In other words, they were not
58:05going around being the funniest, the
58:06smartest, the most impressive. All they
58:08were doing was thinking of all the ways
58:10they could like people more. Super
58:13interesting. How to win friends and
58:14influence people, basically. I The funny
58:16thing is like he never put it quite that
58:18succinctly, Dale Carnegie. Like he never
58:20said like
58:22forget being impressive. In fact, that
58:23was that was not the message of his
58:24book. He often said like tell stories,
58:26be impressive. And that's hard. Like
58:28some Dale Carnegie advice is hard.
58:30hard, yeah.
58:30Right. Or like be interested. That's
58:32part of it. Mhm. But it's literally just
58:35trying to like the person you're with.
58:37That's it.
58:38Forget about impressing them. Forget
58:39about being funny. Forget about
58:41mentioning all your cool things. No.
58:43It's literally just how can I like you
58:46more? Mhm. That that is actually the key
58:49to likability. And so I think that is
58:52the only way I was able to get out of my
58:53imposter syndrome is it took all the
58:55pressure off of having to be
58:59great.
58:59That's so interesting. We all just want
59:01to be loved. Yeah.
59:02At the end of the day to be loved.
59:04like you. Yeah. That phrase, that
59:07feeling
59:08is the most powerful feeling in the
59:10world. If you share I like you with
59:12someone else, you give them permission
59:14to be themselves.
59:16You are saying I like you just as you
59:18are. You are worthy and you are valued.
59:21That is the greatest gift you can give
59:22someone. That's all we want. In
59:24interaction, the other person does not
59:25want to hear how amazing you are.
59:27Maybe they want to laugh, but like
59:29that's not why they're there. All they
59:30want to do is do you like me? Do you
59:31like me? Do you like me? Do you like me?
59:33Do you like me? Do you like me? And so,
59:35the sooner you can find a reason to like
59:37them and share that you like them,
59:40the more likable you are. Right. And
59:42it's so funny cuz I you would always
59:43think that the more successful someone
59:45is or the more money someone has,
59:47sometimes it's even the extreme case.
59:49Like those people need way more
59:51validation. And when I think about like
59:54how do you surround yourself with people
59:56that are way more successful than you is
59:58like it is kind of dear advice, right?
1:00:00You just make them feel heard, you make
1:00:02them feel important.
1:00:03And find authentic reasons to like them.
1:00:05Like think about the people you like
1:00:06most.
1:00:07They're often like not the richest or
1:00:09the prettiest or the funniest. You just
1:00:12genuinely like them for who they are.
1:00:14There's a reason for that, right? Like
1:00:16so, I think that the impostor norm is
1:00:17like forget trying to even show someone
1:00:21you're great or be great. It's it just
1:00:23takes that whole paradigm and throws it
1:00:25out the window. That's so interesting.
1:00:26Get out of your head and more more into
1:00:28your heart at the end of the day.
1:00:29Wow. Well, I think that's a powerful way
1:00:31of an SI too, to close this off in a
1:00:33warm way, but also
1:00:35you.
1:00:35competent way with research and studies.
1:00:39I just want to ask, when is the next
1:00:41book coming out cuz we're all waiting at
1:00:42this point, right?
1:00:43I know. I So, I just had a baby, so um I
1:00:46think So, I think of my work as I have a
1:00:49research year, a writing year, and a
1:00:51launch year. That's typically how I
1:00:53think of it. So, right now I'm in
1:00:54research year. So, um I'm researching
1:00:56and so my next book is going to be I you
1:00:58know, I have cues, captivate. It will be
1:01:00another C word. Okay. It will be.
1:01:03hints or any any Nope. It will be
1:01:05another C word. You can guess if you
1:01:06want. Okay. Well, we'll have to do round
1:01:07four.
1:01:08So, I'm researching right now um kind of
1:01:10my big idea for the book. It it requires
1:01:12some research. And so, um yes, I'm
1:01:15researching. So, maybe 2 years, maybe 3.
1:01:182 years. Some of you might be listening
1:01:20to this when it's out, right? You never
1:01:22know. So, Yes. Whatever it might be.
1:01:25Go check out
1:01:25it out. Yeah. And where else can people
1:01:27find you online? So, um my books are on
1:01:28Audible if you like listening. I read
1:01:30Cues and Captivate. I had so much fun
1:01:32with the vocal power on those books.
1:01:34Yeah, yeah. It's not AI read. It's it's
1:01:35No, it's me. It's legit me.
1:01:37person. You promise, yes.
1:01:39So, it's really me painfully recorded
1:01:41over many many days.
1:01:43Uh and also my books are on Amazon and
1:01:44then of course, scienceofpeople.com is
1:01:46where we have all of our free training.
1:01:47So, I have like a bunch of audio
1:01:49trainings and video trainings on
1:01:51likeability. I also have one on how to
1:01:52deal with difficult people. If that like
1:01:54part piece of today resonated with you,
1:01:55we didn't get to dive into it.
1:01:57Yeah. Um that's that's what I'm thinking
1:01:58about a lot these days. Beautiful. All
1:02:00right. Round three complete. Thanks so
1:02:03much checking out, guys. Bye.
1:02:05Check out

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