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Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein FULL INTERVIEW - BBC Newsnight — Transcript

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0:00we've come to Buckingham Palace in
0:02highly unusual circumstances normally
0:05we'd be discussing your work your duty
0:08will come on to that but today you've
0:11chosen to speak out for the first time
0:13why have you decided to talk now because
0:18and there is no good time to talk about
0:23mr. Epstein and all things associated
0:27and we've been talking to new tonight
0:33for about six months about doing
0:35something around the work that I was
0:36doing and unfortunately we've just not
0:39been able to fit it into either your
0:42shared your or my schedule until now and
0:45actually it's a very good opportunity
0:47and I'm delighted to be able to see you
0:49today as you say all of this goes back
0:53to your friendship with Jeffrey Epstein
0:55how did you first become friends how did
0:58you meet well I met through his
1:01girlfriend back in 1999
1:03who and I'd known her since she was at
1:07university in the UK and it would be to
1:11some extent to stretch to say that that
1:13I think where we were close friends when
1:16we were friends because of other people
1:19and I had a lot of opportunity to go to
1:24the United States but I didn't have much
1:27time with him I suppose I saw him once
1:31or twice a year perhaps maybe massive
1:32over three times a year and quite often
1:36if I was in the United States and doing
1:38things and if he wasn't there he would
1:40say well why don't you come and use my
1:42house I said that's very kind thank you
1:45very much indeed but it would be it
1:48would be a considerable stretch to say
1:52that he was a very very close friend but
1:54he had the most extraordinary ability to
1:57bring extraordinary people together and
2:02that's the bit that I remember is going
2:04to the dinner parties where you would
2:06meet academics politicians people from
2:08the United Nations I mean it was a it
2:10was a a cosmopolitan group of
2:13whatever described was as US eminence
2:16was that his appeal then was that what
2:19you because you you were perceived by
2:21the public as being the party Prince was
2:24that something interesting that's also a
2:27bit of a stretch I don't know why I've
2:32collected that title because I don't
2:35might I never have really partied I was
2:40single for quite a long time in the
2:43early 80s but then after I got married I
2:48was very happy and and I've never really
2:53felt the need to go and party and
2:55certainly going to Jeffrey's was not
3:00about partying absolutely not
3:02you said you weren't very good friends
3:04but would you describe him as a good
3:06friend did you trust him yes I think I
3:10probably did but again I don't go into a
3:18friendship looking for the wrong thing
3:22if you understand what I mean I'm and
3:23I'm an engaging person I want to be able
3:26to engage I want to find out I want to
3:29learn and so but we have to remember
3:34that I was transitioning out of the Navy
3:35at the time and in the transition I
3:39wanted to find out more about what was
3:44going on because in the Navy it's a
3:48pretty isolated business because you're
3:50out at sea the whole time and I was
3:53going to become the Special
3:54Representative for international trade
3:55and investment so I wanted to know more
3:58about what was going on in the
3:59international business world and so that
4:01was another reason for going there and
4:03the opportunities that I had to go to
4:07Wall Street and other places to learn
4:11whilst I was there were were absolutely
4:14vital
4:15he was your guest as well in 2000
4:18Epstein was a guest at Windsor Castle
4:20and at Sandringham he was brought right
4:23into the heart of the world
4:24your invitation but certainly at my
4:27invitation not at the Royal Family's
4:29invitation but remember that it was his
4:33girlfriend that was the key element in
4:37this he was the as it were plus-one to
4:41some extent in my writing thing you
4:43threw a birthday party for Epstein's
4:46girlfriend girl in Maxwell at
4:48Sandringham no it was a shooting weekend
4:52shooting week just a straightforward
4:54straightforward shooting weekend but
4:56during these times that he was a guest
4:59at Windsor Castle at Sandringham the
5:02shooting weekend we now know that he was
5:07and had been procuring young girls for
5:11sex trafficking we now know that at the
5:16time there was no indication to me or
5:20anybody else that that was what he was
5:24doing and certainly when I saw him
5:29either in the United States why now when
5:32I swim in the United States or when I
5:34was staying in his houses in the United
5:35States there was no indication
5:37absolutely no indication and if there
5:41was you have to remember that at the
5:44time I was patron of the NSPCC s full
5:49stop campaign so I was close up with
5:52what was going on in those time about
5:57getting rid of abuse to children so I
5:59knew what was what the things were to
6:02look for but I never saw them so you
6:04would have made that connection because
6:05you stayed with him you were a visitor a
6:08guest on many occasions at his homes and
6:11nothing struck you as suspicious during
6:15that whole time just for the record
6:18you've been on his private plane yes
6:20you've been to stay on his private
6:23island yes you've stayed at his home in
6:26Palm Beach yes you visited Gillan
6:30Maxwell's house in Belgravia in London
6:32yes so in 2006
6:37sin may an arrest warrant was issued for
6:40Epstein for sexual assault of a minor
6:42yes
6:43in July he was invited to Windsor Castle
6:47- your daughter princess Beatrice's 18th
6:50birthday why would you do that because I
6:53was asking alone but even so at the time
6:57I don't think I certainly I wasn't aware
7:02when the invitation was issued what was
7:05going on in the United States and I
7:07wasn't aware until until the media
7:09picked up on it because he never said
7:10nothing about it he never discussed with
7:12you the fact that an arrest warrant had
7:14been issued so he came to that party
7:18knowing police were investigating him
7:21whether it was it police it River I
7:23don't know she this is the problems that
7:25I release at the time but I'm afraid he
7:27see this is the problem this is an awful
7:29lot of this was going on in the United
7:30States and I wasn't a party to it and I
7:32knew nothing about it in 2008 he was
7:35convicted of soliciting and procuring a
7:38minor for prostitution he was jailed
7:41this was your friend did you feel about
7:44it well I ceased contact with him after
7:48I was aware that he was under
7:53investigation and that was later on in
7:55in 2006 and I wasn't in touch with him
8:01again until 2010 so I just it just it
8:06was one of those things that somebody's
8:08going through that sort of thing well
8:09I'm terribly sorry I can't be when he
8:13was serving time there was no call no
8:15letter nothing there he was released in
8:19July within months by December of 2010
8:23you went to stay with him at his New
8:25York mansion why why were you staying
8:28with a convicted sex offender right
8:30I have always ever since this has
8:35happened and since this has become as it
8:37were public knowledge that I was there
8:39I've questioned myself as to why did I
8:42go what was I doing and was it the right
8:47thing to do
8:48now I went there with the sole purpose
8:50of saying to him that because he had
8:53been convicted it was inappropriate for
8:57us to be seen together and I had a
9:01number of people counsel me in both
9:04directions either to go and see him or
9:06not to go and see him and I took the
9:09judgment call that because this was
9:12serious and I felt that doing it over
9:19the telephone was the chickens way of
9:22doing it I had to go and see him and
9:24talk to him and I went to see him and I
9:29was doing a number of other things in
9:30New York at the time and we had an
9:33opportunity to go for a walk in the park
9:35and that was the conversation
9:39coincidentally that was photographed
9:42which was when I said to him I said look
9:44because of what has happened I don't
9:47think it is appropriate that we should
9:50remain in contact and by mutual
9:54agreement during that walk in the park
9:56we decided that we would part company
9:58and I left I think it was the next day
10:00and to this day I never had any contact
10:04with him from that day forward what did
10:06he say when you told him that you were
10:08breaking at the friendship he was what I
10:12would describe as understanding he
10:17didn't go into any great depth in the
10:19conversation about what I was doing what
10:21he was doing except to say that that
10:25that he'd accepted to whatever it was a
10:30plea bargain he'd served his time and he
10:35was carrying on with his life
10:37see what I mean and I said yes but I'm
10:39afraid to say that that that that's as
10:42may be
10:44but with all the attendant scrutiny on
10:47me then I don't think it is a wise thing
10:52to do who advised you then that it was a
10:54good idea to go and break up the
10:56friendship did that come from the palace
10:58how much did we know
10:59that came from so there were a number of
11:02people who are some people from my staff
11:05some people from friends and family I
11:08was talking to and I took the decision
11:11that it was I had to show leadership and
11:14I had to go and see him and I had to
11:15tell him that's it that was December of
11:182010 he threw a party to celebrate his
11:22release and you were invited as a guest
11:24of honor Oh
11:27in 2010 that there wasn't certainly
11:29wasn't a party to celebrate his release
11:32in December because it was a small
11:36dinner party there were only 8 or 10 of
11:38us I think it was if there was a party
11:41then I don't know thing about that you
11:44were invited to that dinner as a guest
11:46of honor well I was there so there was a
11:49dinner I think he was quite as as you
11:51might put it but yeah ok I was there for
11:53a point I was there or did I get I'm
11:55just trying to work this out because you
11:57said you went to break up the
11:58relationship and yet you stayed at that
12:00New York mansion several days I'm
12:02wondering how I was doing a number of
12:04other things while I was there but you
12:06were staying at the house just convicted
12:08sex offender it was a convenient place
12:11to stay there is I mean I mean I've gone
12:14through this in my mind so many times at
12:18the end of the day with the benefit of
12:22all the hindsight that one could have it
12:25was definitely the wrong thing to do but
12:29at the time I felt it was it was the
12:31honorable and right thing to do and I
12:34admit fully that that my judgment was
12:39probably colored by my tendency to be
12:45too honorable but that's just the way it
12:47is because during that time there's
12:49those few days witnesses say they saw
12:52many young girls coming and going at the
12:54time there is video footage of Epstein
12:57accompanied by young girls and you were
13:00there staying in his house catching up
13:02with friends I never really mean if they
13:07were then I wasn't a party to any of
13:11that I never saw them
13:13I mean you have to we have to understand
13:15that that that his house I described it
13:20more as a as a almost as a railway
13:22station if you know what I mean in the
13:24sense that there were people coming in
13:25and out of that house all the time what
13:29they were doing and why they were there
13:31I had nothing to do with so I'm afraid I
13:35can't make any comments on that because
13:38I I really don't know another guest was
13:41Jon Brockman the literary agent now he
13:44described seeing you there getting a
13:47foot massage from a young Russian woman
13:51did that happen
13:53you're absolutely sure you can't
13:55remember absolutely sure so Jon
13:58Brockman's statement is false I wouldn't
14:01I wouldn't I don't know mr. Brockman so
14:03I don't know what he's talking about but
14:06that definitely wasn't you getting a
14:08foot massage from a Russian girl in
14:10Jeffrey Epstein cells know it might seem
14:15a funny way to break off a friendship
14:17afford a house party of sorts with a
14:20dinner it's an odd way to put is that
14:23that's a very stark way of putting it
14:27yes you're absolutely right but actually
14:30the the the the truth of it is is that
14:34is that I actually only saw him for
14:38about what the part that the dinner
14:42party the walk in the park and probably
14:46passing in the passage so let's go to
14:49that Central Park walk which was snapped
14:52friends of yours suggest that Epstein
14:55wanted that photo taken perhaps he'd
14:58even set it up do you worry that you
15:01were being played again new informations
15:06coming out since his suicide has made us
15:11reappraise that walk in the park we
15:17can't find any evidence or my staff and
15:20my people than I can't find any evidence
15:22to suggest that that was what he
15:25was doing I mean you can look at it in
15:28so many different ways that the fact the
15:30fact there is is that somebody very
15:33cleverly took that photograph it wasn't
15:37as far as I would I remember nor do my
15:41security people remember anybody being
15:45present or close because there were
15:50enough security around I mean the
15:52photographs of the security people are
15:54in the around in the federal so I he
15:58could have done but I yeah I guess what
16:03I'm asked is do you feel that you were
16:05part of Epstein's public rehabilitation
16:08oh no funny enough I don't know I mean
16:13if if if he was if he was doing if that
16:19photograph was taken for that with that
16:20purpose in mind then it doesn't it
16:24doesn't equate to what actually happened
16:27so why wouldn't you announce this this
16:29breakup when you got back why wouldn't
16:31you publicly explain what you done did
16:34you worried that he had something that
16:36could compromise you know do you regret
16:40that trip yes do you regret the whole
16:42friendship with Epstein
16:47now manat and the reason being is that
16:51that the the people that I met and the
16:55opportunities that I was given to learn
16:59either by him or because of him were
17:04actually very useful he himself not as
17:11it were as close as you might think
17:13we're not went we weren't we weren't
17:15that close so therefore I mean yes I
17:17would go and stay in his house but that
17:19was because of his girlfriend not
17:21because of him was that visit December
17:25of 2010 the only time you saw him after
17:29he was convicted did you see him or
17:31speak to him again 2010 was it that was
17:35it because I went well first of all I
17:38I wanted to make sure that that if I was
17:42going to go and see him
17:44I had to make sure that that that that
17:47there was enough time between his
17:49release because it wasn't something that
17:52I was going into in a hurry but I had to
17:56go and see him I had to go and see him
17:58and stay in the house I could easily
18:01have gone and stayed somewhere else but
18:03the but sheer convenience of being able
18:06to get a hold of the man is I mean he
18:09was he was in and out all over the place
18:12so getting him in one place for a period
18:16time to actually have a long enough
18:17conversation to say look these are the
18:19reasons why I'm not going to and that
18:22happened on the walk July of this year
18:24Epstein was arrested on charges of sex
18:27trafficking and abusing dozens of
18:29underage girls
18:30one of Epstein's accusers Virginia
18:33Roberts has made allegations against you
18:36she says she met you in 2001 she says
18:40she dined with you danced with you at
18:42[ __ ] nightclub in London she went on to
18:45have sex with you in a house in
18:47Belgravia belonging to girl and Maxwell
18:50your friend your response I have no
18:53recollection of ever meeting this lady
18:56you don't remember meeting hazard she
19:01says she met you in 2001 she dined with
19:05you she danced with you you bought her
19:08drinks you're in Trump nightclub in
19:11London and she went on to have sex with
19:14you in a house in Belgravia belonging to
19:18girl in Maxwell didn't happen do you
19:21remember her no I've no recollection of
19:26ever meeting her
19:27I'm almost in fact I'm convinced that I
19:32was never in trance with her there are a
19:35number of things that are wrong with
19:36that story one of which is that is that
19:39I don't know where the bar isn't in
19:42tramps I don't drink I don't think I've
19:49ever
19:50bought a drink in Trent whenever I was
19:53there
19:53do you remember dancing at trap no that
19:58couldn't have happened because the date
20:00that there's being suggested I was at
20:03home with the children you know that you
20:07were at home with the children was it a
20:09memorable night on that particular day
20:12that that we now understand is the date
20:17which is the 10th of March I was at home
20:20I was with the children and I'd taken
20:22Beatrice to a pizza express in working
20:28for a party at a I suppose sort of 4:00
20:31or 5:00 in the afternoon and then
20:33because the Duchess was away we have a
20:36simple rule in the in the family that
20:38when one's away the other one's there I
20:41was on terminal leave at the time from
20:44the Royal Navy so therefore I was at
20:46home why would you remember that so
20:48specifically why would you remember her
20:50a pizza express birthday and being at
20:52home because going to Pizza Express in
20:54Woking is an unusual thing for me to do
20:57a very unusual thing for me to do I've
21:00never been I've only been through
21:02working a couple of times and I remember
21:05it weirdly distinctly but as soon as
21:07somebody reminded me of it oh yes I
21:09remember that I have no recollection of
21:13ever meeting or being in the company or
21:18the presence so you're absolutely sure
21:20that you're at home on the 10th of March
21:22she was very specific about that night
21:25she described dancing with you and you
21:28profusely sweating and that she went on
21:32to have possibly there's a slight
21:35problem with with with with with the
21:37sweating because I have a peculiar
21:43medical condition which is that I don't
21:45sweat or I didn't sweat at the time and
21:48that was machine yes
21:50I didn't sweat at the time because I had
21:55suffered what I would describe as an
21:57overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands
21:58War when I was shot at and I simply
22:03it was it was it was almost impossible
22:05for me to sweat and it's only because I
22:08have done a number of things in the
22:10recent past but I'm starting to be able
22:13to do that again so I'm afraid to say
22:15that there's a medical condition that
22:17says that it didn't do it so therefore
22:19is it possible that you met Virginia
22:21Roberts dined with her danced with her
22:25in [ __ ] had sex with her on another
22:28date no do you remember meeting her at
22:33all though do you know you didn't meet
22:36her or do you just not remember no I
22:39have I don't know if I've met her but no
22:42I have no recollection of meeting her
22:44because she was very specific she
22:46described the dance that you had
22:48together in [ __ ]
22:49she described meeting you she was a 17
22:53year old girl meeting a senior member of
22:55the royal family never happen she
23:00provided a photo of the two of you
23:02together yes your arm was around her
23:05waist yes you've seen the photo I've
23:08seen the first girl how do you explain
23:09that I can't because I don't I have no
23:14again I have absolutely no memory of
23:16that photograph ever being taken do you
23:19recognize yourself look it was pretty
23:21difficult not to recognize yourself your
23:24friend suggested that the photo is fake
23:26I think it's from the investigations
23:31that we've done you can't prove whether
23:34or not that photograph is faked or not
23:37because it is a photograph of a
23:40photograph of a photograph so it's very
23:42difficult to be able to to prove it but
23:46I I don't remember that photograph ever
23:49being taken but it's possible that it
23:51was you with you that's me but but
23:54whether that's my hand or whether that's
23:55the position I but I don't I have simply
24:00no recollection of the photograph ever
24:03being taken the world has now seen the
24:05photo that Virginia Roberts provided
24:08taken by Epstein we understand in
24:12Guerlain Maxwell's house here's the
24:14problem I've never seen Epstein
24:16with a camera in my life I think it was
24:19Virginia Roberts camera she said a
24:21little code at one that she lent to
24:23Epstein he took a photo and your arm I
24:26don't remember I don't remember that
24:31photograph ever being taken I don't
24:33remember going upstairs in the house
24:35because that photograph is taken
24:37upstairs and I'm not entirely convinced
24:43that I mean that is that is what I would
24:45describe as me in in that in that
24:48picture but I can't we can't be certain
24:50as to whether or not that's my hand on
24:53on her
24:54whatever it is left left side you think
24:58because I have no recollection of that
25:00photograph ever being taken so why would
25:03somebody have put in another hand you
25:05think it is you next to her in the photo
25:07but it's definitely me that's a picture
25:11of me it's not a picture of I don't
25:12believe it's a picture of me in London
25:14because when I would go out to when I go
25:16out in London I wear a suit and the tie
25:20that's what I would describe as those of
25:23my traveling clothes if I'm going to go
25:25if I'm going overseas there's a I've got
25:27a plenty of photographs of me dressed in
25:30those sorts of that sort of kit but not
25:34there just to clarify so you think that
25:36photo has been faked nobody can prove
25:41whether or not that photograph has been
25:45doctored but I don't recollect that
25:47photograph ever being taken and you
25:49don't recollect having your hand round
25:53her waist in girl in Maxwell's house on
25:56any occasion even if it was a different
25:58I'm sorry but if I as a member of the
26:01royal family and I have a photograph
26:04taken and I take very very few
26:06photographs I am NOT one to as it were
26:10hug and public displays of affection are
26:14not something that that I do so I but
26:20that's the best explanation I can give
26:22you and then and I'm afraid to say that
26:24that I don't believe that photograph
26:27was taken in the way that has been
26:30suggested why would people not believe
26:33that you were there I'm sorry why would
26:37I'm just trying to understand there's a
26:39photo inside Golan Maxwell's house
26:42Golan herself is in the background why
26:46would people not believe that you were
26:49there with her that night how they might
26:55well wish to wish to believe it but
26:56there's a the the photograph is taken
26:58upstairs and I don't think I have a went
27:01upstairs in gülen's house yeah because
27:07the because the because the dining room
27:08when everything was on the phone that
27:10was on the ground floor it wasn't it was
27:12as you came in them as you came in the
27:14hall so I don't remember ever going up
27:17there I'm at a loss to explain this
27:19particular photograph if the if the
27:22original was ever produced
27:24then perhaps we might be able to solve
27:26it but you you can say categorically
27:28that you don't recall meeting Virginia
27:34Robert's dining with her trip dancing
27:37with her at [ __ ] you're going on to
27:39have sex with her just in a bedroom in a
27:41house in Belgravia I can absolutely
27:45categorically tell you it never happened
27:48do you recall any kind of sexual contact
27:51with Virginia Roberts then not any other
27:54time none whatsoever
27:55because she said in a legal deposition a
27:58legal court document in 2015 she had sex
28:02with you three times
28:03she is not confused about this she said
28:06the first was in London when she was
28:08trafficked to you the second was at
28:11Epstein's mansion in New York that is a
28:16date in April I believe is that correct
28:18she said it was a month or so later yeah
28:20well I think the date that we have for
28:24that shows that I was in Boston I was in
28:31New York the previous day and I was at a
28:35dinner for the wood band trust
28:39in New York and then I flew up to Boston
28:41the following day and then on a day that
28:44she says that this had this occurred she
28:46they'd already left in to go to the
28:49island before I got back from Boston so
28:51I don't think that could have happened
28:53at all there was a witness there Janna
28:56Stolberg who says that you did visit the
28:58house in that month I probably did I
29:01don't think I've been one of the weirder
29:03things I was staying with the because of
29:07the what I was doing I was staying with
29:09the Consul General which is further down
29:12the street on fifth so I wasn't I wasn't
29:16staying there I may have visited but I
29:18but but no definitely didn't definitely
29:22definitely no no no activity because in
29:25a legal deposition 2015 she said she had
29:29sex with you three times once in a
29:31London house when she was trafficked to
29:33you in Maxwell's house once in New York
29:37a month or so later at Epstein's mansion
29:39and once on his private island in a
29:42group of seven or eight other girls
29:46no no to Oliver
29:52absolutely no to all of it why would she
29:57be saying those things we wonder exactly
30:01the same but I have no idea absolutely
30:07no idea she made these claims in a u.s.
30:11deposition mm-hm
30:13are you saying you don't believe her
30:17she's lying that's a very difficult
30:21thing to answer because I'm not in a
30:26position to know what what she's trying
30:31to achieve but look I can tell you
30:38categorically I don't remember meeting
30:41her at all I do not remember her
30:45photograph being taken and I've said
30:47consistently and
30:51frequently that we never had any sort of
30:55sexual contact
30:56whatever she spoke about you outside the
31:00court in August of this year she said I
31:03quote he knows exactly what he's done
31:06and I hope he comes clean about it was
31:10nothing
31:11so if Virginia Roberts is watching this
31:14interview what is your message to her I
31:19don't have a message for her because I
31:23have to have a thick skin if somebody's
31:26going to make those sorts of allegations
31:28then I'm just going to have a thick skin
31:31and get on with it but they never
31:32happened for the record is there any way
31:35you could have had sex with that young
31:37woman or any young woman trafficked by
31:40Jeffrey Epstein in any of his residences
31:43no and and and without putting too fine
31:50a point on it if you're a man it is a
31:54positive Act to have sex with somebody
31:57you have to have to take some sort of
32:01positive action and so therefore if you
32:05try to forget it's very difficult to try
32:09and forget positive action and I do not
32:13remember anything I can't I've wracked
32:16my brain and thinking oh well when the
32:19first delegation is when the allegations
32:20came out originally and I went well
32:23that's a bit strange I didn't remember
32:24this and then I've been through it and
32:26through it and through it over and over
32:29and over again and no nothing
32:35Epstein's housekeeper also in a Florida
32:38Court legal deposition said that you
32:40visited the Palm Beach residents around
32:43four times a year you got a daily
32:45massage four times a year that was what
32:47he said in a Florida Court legal
32:49deposition or I'm just wondering when
32:51you look back now is there a chance that
32:54those massages might have been the
32:56services of someone who was being
32:58sexually exploited or trafficked by
33:01Epstein mmm
33:04no I don't think I mean I know
33:08definitely not definitely and Ivan
33:11definitely did not visit his Palm Beach
33:14house three or four times a year
33:17absolutely not
33:19how many times would he say visited I in
33:22total probably four times in total
33:28throughout the the time that I knew him
33:34in fact probably that was the that was
33:39the place that that that if you see what
33:41I mean he was in the house more more
33:44there than other in other places that I
33:47was that's fine
33:50but it was usually because I was going I
33:52was going through and on somewhere else
33:55so it was a it was a day it was it was
33:57that was it you said in your statement
34:00from the palace at no time did I see
34:04witness or suspect any suspicious
34:06behavior yeah
34:07Virginia Roberts legal team says you
34:10could not spend time around Epstein and
34:13not know what was going on you could not
34:17spend time around Epstein and not know
34:20what was going on if you are somebody
34:28like me then people behave in a subtly
34:35different way you wouldn't first of all
34:41I'm not looking for it that's the thing
34:42if you're looking for it then you might
34:45have suspected now with the benefit of a
34:49huge amount of hindsight the huge amount
34:51of analysis you look back and you go
34:54well was that really the way that it was
34:58or was it was I looking at it the wrong
35:00way but you don't go into these places
35:02you don't go to stay with people looking
35:05for for that you could no spend time
35:08around him that was what they said you
35:10could not spend time around him and not
35:12know
35:17the other aspect of this is that is that
35:18that I live in an institution at Behaim
35:24palace which has members of staff
35:26walking around all the time and I don't
35:29wish to appear grand but there were a
35:32lot of people who were walking around
35:34Geoffrey Epstein's house as far as I was
35:38aware they were staff they were people
35:41that were working for him or doing
35:44things I was where I interacted with
35:47them if he weren't already to say good
35:48morning good afternoon
35:50but I didn't if you see what I mean
35:53interact with him in a way that was what
35:55are you doing here why are you here
35:57what's going on
35:58but you'd notice if there were hundreds
36:00of underage girls and under you but but
36:03sorry you wouldn't notice if there were
36:04hundreds of underage girls in Geoffrey's
36:06house wasn't there not when I was there
36:09now he may have changed his behavior
36:13patterns in order for that not to be
36:20obvious to me so I don't I mean I you're
36:25asking me to speculate on things that I
36:26just don't know about you seem utterly
36:29convinced you're telling the truth would
36:31you be willing to testify or give a
36:34statement under oath if you were asked
36:35well I'm like everybody else and I would
36:40have to take all the legal advice that
36:44there was before I was to do that sort
36:48of thing but if push came to shove and
36:51the leaked legal advice was to do so
36:54then I would be duty-bound did you say
36:57because you've said there are many
36:58unanswered questions everyone affected
37:00wants closure you would help to provide
37:02that closure if there was if in the in
37:05the right circumstances yes I would
37:07because I think there's just as much
37:09closure for me as there is for everybody
37:12else and undoubtedly some very strange
37:20and unpleasant activities have been
37:24going on I'm afraid to say that
37:27not the person who can shed light on it
37:29for a number of reasons one of which is
37:32that I wasn't there long enough if you
37:35go in for a day two days at a time it's
37:40quite easy I'm led to believe for those
37:42sorts of people to hide their activities
37:44for that period of time and then carry
37:47on when you're not there
37:48Virginia Roberts lawyers legal team say
37:51that they've asked for a legal statement
37:54from you
37:55there is an active FBI investigation now
37:57would you be willing to provide that
37:59again I'm bound by what my legal advice
38:04is legal advisers tell me Epstein was
38:09found dead in prison yes in August of
38:12this year what was your response on
38:15hearing that he'd died a shock some
38:18people think that he didn't take his own
38:21life well there again I'm not want to be
38:25able to answer that question I believe
38:29that centers around something to do was
38:30a bone in his neck as to whether or not
38:34if you commit suicide that bone breaks
38:37or something but I'm fresh now I'm not
38:41an expert I have to take what the
38:45coroner says and he has ruled that it
38:48was suicide he's dead his girlfriend
38:53Galen Maxwell your old friend
38:55it was victims say complicit in his
38:58behavior but that bit I can't help you
39:01with because I have no idea do you think
39:04that she has questions to answer about
39:06her role in this in the same way that I
39:09have questions to answer in the sense of
39:11what was what was I doing and as I say
39:15that I was there to to my mind be
39:20honorable and say to him look you've
39:22been convicted it would be incompatible
39:26for me to be seen with you unfortunately
39:31somebody was standing around with a
39:33camera at the time and got a photograph
39:35of us it's one of the very few
39:37photographs there are of us but that
39:40that was the case if there are questions
39:43that ghilane has to answer that's her
39:45problem
39:47I'm afraid I'm not in a position to be
39:49able to comment one way or the other
39:51when was your last contact with her it
39:54was earlier this year funny enough in
39:56this in the summer in the spring summer
39:58about what she was here doing some rally
40:03so even though he had by then been
40:06arrested and was facing charges and
40:09thanks traffic no no no this was this
40:11was early spring I think it was long
40:13because when was he arrested
40:14July no he's before July and that was
40:18the last time yeah because you discuss
40:20Epstein at all no no actually funny
40:22enough no not at all
40:24there wasn't anything to discuss about
40:26him because he wasn't in the news it
40:28wasn't you know it was just we've moved
40:32on I want to talk about moving on
40:34arriving Epstein is dead yes the women
40:38are now being heard quite rightly how do
40:41you move on from this well it's an
40:47interesting way of putting it I'm
40:49carrying on with what I do I have a
40:55number of things that I have been doing
40:57since 2011 they're pretty well organized
41:03pretty successful and so I'm carrying on
41:06and trying to improve those those things
41:08that I'm already doing
41:09I wonder what effect all this has had on
41:12your close family
41:13you've got daughters of your own it has
41:17been what I would describe as a constant
41:20saw in the family we all knew him and I
41:29think that if we have a conversation
41:30about it it's we're all left with the
41:33same thing of what on earth happened why
41:36how did how did he get to where he was
41:40what did he do how did he do it and so
41:44it's it's just a constant sort of no
41:48or I mean this this first came out in
41:502011 and it was just surprised to to all
41:59of us because the photographs were
42:03published at a separate time to when I
42:05was there and there was a sort of
42:07question right what there's going on and
42:08as a family we discussed it and then in
42:112015 when the allegations were made in
42:14the deposition there was a sort of there
42:19was a sort of the in this is the
42:21immediate family not a wider family the
42:23wider family couldn't be more supportive
42:25but the immediate family it was what's
42:29all this about and we all just lost so
42:35it's just as the episode been damaging
42:38to the royal family to Her Majesty the
42:40Queen I don't believe it's been damaging
42:43to the Queen at all has to me and it's
42:50it's been a constant drip if you see
42:53what I mean in the in the in the in the
42:56background that people want to want to
42:59know if I was in a position to be able
43:02to answer all these questions in a way
43:04that gave sensible answers other than
43:07the ones that I've given that gave
43:08closure that I'd love it but I'm afraid
43:10I can't
43:11I'm just not in a position to do sit
43:13because I'm just as much in the dark as
43:16many people how do you reconnect with
43:18the public then now exactly what I'm
43:22doing which is to use and to continue to
43:26work with pitch to continue to work with
43:29idea and the things that I believe
43:31strongly in I'm not somebody who does
43:33things in competition with people oddly
43:35I do things in collaboration with people
43:37so I want people to to work together to
43:41come to as it were a solution to a to a
43:45bigger problem and so I got a number of
43:47people working together particularly in
43:49the education field particularly in and
43:51also in in in areas of of government and
43:56what they are doing so that we're
43:57bringing everybody together so that
43:59we're all pushing
44:00in the same direction an idea now does
44:04that we've been going properly now for
44:07two years we've got three and a half
44:10million people who've got a badge we've
44:13got half a million or just over half a
44:16million young people who are using the
44:19the service and I'll try to think what
44:23else we've but it's it's well it's
44:27designed for seven to fourteen year olds
44:29in the United Kingdom and it turns out
44:31it's done from five to 95 around the
44:35world so where it's being done in a
44:37hundred countries now so we were
44:39slightly on the catch-up for this one I
44:41know we have to bring this to you've
44:45faced questions today on a very very raw
44:49subject there has never been an
44:50interview like this before I wonder what
44:54that tells us about the way the royal
44:58family now confronts these difficult
45:01situations has there been a sea change I
45:04think that the the the the problem that
45:08I'm we face in the 21st century is
45:13social media there is a whole range of
45:17things that you you face now that you
45:22didn't face 25 years ago because it was
45:25just the print media and I think that
45:29that that to some extent there is a
45:35there is a thick skin that you have to
45:38have and again I'm not a confrontation
45:43list myself I I would prefer to be able
45:48to as it were resolve things in a way
45:52that is sensible and so choosing to as
45:59it were get out there and talk about
46:02these things it's almost it's almost a
46:04mental health issue to some extent for
46:06me in the sense that it's been nagging
46:09at my mind for
46:11a great many years I know that I made
46:17the wrong judgment and I made the wrong
46:19decision but I made the wrong decision
46:22and the wrong judgment I believe
46:25fundamentally for the right reasons
46:27which is to say to somebody I'm not
46:29going to see you again and in fact from
46:31- from that day forth I was never in
46:34contact with him
46:36the subsequent allegations are what I
46:42would describe as surprising shocking
46:45and a distraction but that's I mean that
46:52there are all sorts of things that are
46:53on the internet and and out there in the
46:55public domain that we just sort of go
46:57well yeah but I'm afraid this is it just
47:01never happened you've talked about a
47:03thick skin I wonder if you have any
47:05sense now of guilt regret or shame about
47:10any of your behavior in your friendship
47:12with Epstein as far as mr. Epstein is
47:15concerned it was the wrong decision to
47:17go and see him in 2010 as far as my
47:23association with him was concerned it
47:27had some seriously beneficial outcomes
47:33in areas that have nothing on bet have
47:36nothing to do with with with what I
47:38would describe what we're talking about
47:39today on balance could I have avoided
47:45ever meeting him probably not and that's
47:49because of my friendship with ghilane it
47:51was it was it was inevitable that we
47:54would have come across each other do I
47:59regret the fact that that that he has
48:02quite obviously conducted himself in a
48:04manner unbecoming yes I'm becoming he
48:08was a sex offender yeah I'm sorry I'm
48:10being polite up in the sense that he was
48:12a sex offender but no was I right in in
48:17in having him as a friend at the time
48:20I'm bearing in mind this was some years
48:22before he was accused of
48:23a sex offender
48:27I think there's anything wrong then the
48:31problem was the fact that once he had
48:33been convicted
48:36you stayed high stable him and that's
48:38that's that's the bit that that as it
48:42were I kick myself for on a daily basis
48:45because it was not something that was
48:48becoming a remember the royal family and
48:49we try and uphold the highest standards
48:53and practices and I let the side down
48:56simple as that
48:57this interview has been exceptionally
49:00rare you might not speak on this subject
49:02again is there anything you feel has
49:05been left unsaid that you would like to
49:07say now no I don't think so I think
49:11you've probably dragged out most of the
49:14most of what is required and I'm truly
49:17grateful for the opportunity that you've
49:19given me to to be able to discuss this
49:22with you your highness thank you thank
49:24you very much do you

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