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Prime Minister Justin Trudeau testifies on WE Charity scandal: full hearing — Transcript

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0:00all right thanks so much for that paul
0:02we're going to jump in because the
0:03committee has begun
0:04uh wayne easter for the liberals
0:06chairing it let's listen in here uh to
0:08appear before the committee and i've
0:09been informed
0:11just a few minutes ago actually that
0:13you've been uh able to
0:15uh reassign your schedule uh somewhat uh
0:18so that you can
0:19uh uh spend at least
0:2250 at least 90 minutes with us uh we
0:26appreciate
0:27that very much uh so with that i will
0:30turn the meeting over for your opening
0:32remarks prime minister and i believe
0:34uh we will try and hold you to uh ten
0:36minutes and then we'll go to questions
0:38so
0:39welcome and thank you
0:47thank you chair
0:50in spring canadians were
0:54plunged into the deepest crisis of our
0:56generation
0:57still today people are falling ill and
1:01too many of us are still dying from
1:03covet 19.
1:05families are still grieving they're
1:07losing their jobs
1:08and they're going through very tough
1:10times our
1:12government had to take action
1:15our country is facing a contagious
1:18and deadly virus and everyone's behavior
1:21and choices
1:23allows us to protect everyone's health
1:25all canadians had to take measures
1:28to limit the spread of this virus and we
1:31had to make
1:32important sacrifices people had to be
1:34able to count on their government
1:37we couldn't ask people to stay home and
1:39to not go to work without giving them
1:41confidence
1:42that we would help them to pay their
1:44rent their mortgage
1:45or their groceries we knew that it would
1:48be better
1:49to take action quickly and decisively
1:53then we would make errors along the way
1:56if we acted slowly trying to avoid
1:57errors
1:59it would have been worse than doing
2:01nothing at all
2:02with this pandemic and this economic
2:05crisis
2:06our government had to show creativity
2:08and flexibility
2:10we couldn't hesitate or be limited
2:13by current ways of doing things
2:15obviously this pandemic is not over
2:19but the actions taken by our government
2:21to help
2:22protect canadians are still in place
2:24throughout this crisis
2:25canadians have been extraordinary
2:29canada is resuming its economy and our
2:32economy is recovering
2:36we've seen the beginning of what could
2:38be a second wave however
2:40earlier this week we said that we have
2:43to remain vigilant
2:45this pandemic presents several
2:47challenges for students
2:49minister cheger discussed these
2:51challenges
2:52and what our government did to remedy
2:54these issues with the committee
2:57we put forward a nine billion dollar
2:59plan
3:00to help students get through this
3:02difficult time
3:06imposed a moratorium on the refunding of
3:08student loans
3:09increase the number of student summer
3:11jobs and
3:13introduced a serve for students
3:17giving students fifteen hundred dollars
3:19per month
3:20the canadian student service grant was
3:24also part of this plan
3:26when we created the program we had three
3:27objectives in mind
3:29first we wanted to encourage students
3:32to get involved in their communities
3:34during this crisis
3:36second we wanted to help
3:39not-for-profit organizations to fill
3:41their missions and to support
3:43canadians in and third
3:46we wanted to help students who volunteer
3:50to receive financial competition
3:53compensation
3:54as recognition for their service
3:58from the outset we knew that time
4:01was of the essence after all even sure i
4:04have a
4:05point of order point of order
4:09point of order mr sure uh what's your
4:11point of order mr marantz um i just want
4:13to clarify
4:14as per your ruling on tuesday july 28th
4:17when you said
4:18if it was politicians we'd get into the
4:20four second four second
4:22i just wanted you to confirm for this
4:24around that there will be strict
4:25adherence to the
4:26practice of equal time for questions i
4:28don't think it's a
4:29uh it i will allow it as a point of
4:33order i will explain that when we start
4:35uh
4:35questioning uh mr morantz and the answer
4:38to it is really
4:39really yes but i will explain to the
4:41witness
4:42why we're under covert 19 rules
4:45basically
4:46uh mr prime minister
4:49from the outset we knew that time was of
4:51the essence after all
4:53even the best program imaginable
4:55wouldn't make any difference if it
4:56couldn't be delivered this summer
4:58so we had to quickly connect the
5:00thousands of students who wanted to
5:01volunteer with the many
5:03community organizations that needed an
5:05extra hand
5:06because of the pandemic at first we'd
5:09hoped to use the canada service corps
5:11the canada service corps was created in
5:142018
5:15to encourage young people to serve and
5:17connect them to opportunities in
5:19communities across the country
5:21by developing networks creating
5:23partnerships with existing organizations
5:25and offering
5:25micro grants the plan had always been to
5:28scale up the program
5:29over the coming years to ensure many
5:32thousands of young people
5:33that serve their communities and their
5:35country every year
5:37when the canada student service grant
5:39was initially conceived
5:40i expected that the canada service corps
5:43would help deliver the program
5:45the service corps is an important and
5:47long-standing part of our national youth
5:49strategy
5:50and i knew that making it responsible
5:51for the cssg
5:53would accelerate its development
5:55ultimately however
5:56the public service concluded that
5:58delivering the cssg
6:00required a third-party partner external
6:03to government
6:04and that we charity should act as that
6:07service provider
6:08i first learned that we charity was
6:11being proposed to deliver the program on
6:13may 8th
6:14when the cssg was to go before full
6:17cabinet
6:18until that date i had not spoken at all
6:21with my staff
6:22about we charity in relation to the cssg
6:26in fact as of may 8th my expectation was
6:29still
6:30that a supercharged version of the
6:32canada service corps
6:33would likely deliver the program from my
6:36perspective
6:36we charity hadn't come up as you know
6:40by may 8th the public service had
6:43already
6:44concluded that we charity was the best
6:47option to deliver this program
6:49they had formally recommended it the
6:52cssg
6:53including the recommendation that we
6:54charity be used had already gone through
6:57the covid committee of cabinet
6:58on may 5th i was not involved in either
7:02of those steps
7:03on may 8 i received a briefing before
7:06the cabinet meeting and learned for the
7:08first
7:08time that we charity had been
7:10recommended as a partner
7:12and was on the cabinet agenda i asked
7:15why the plan didn't involve the canada
7:17service corps
7:18we were told that the canada service
7:20corps wouldn't be able to scale up to
7:22deliver the program
7:24in time this was disappointing
7:27but ultimately not surprising to me
7:29given my understanding of the state of
7:31the canada service corps
7:32development and other demands facing the
7:34public service at the time
7:37of course policy staff in my office had
7:39been working with the privy council
7:41office and other departments
7:43they knew that we charity was under
7:45consideration
7:46however i never spoke with my staff
7:48about we charity or its proposed
7:50involvement
7:51in administering this program until may
7:548th
7:55i also never spoke to craig or mark
7:57kielburger or anyone at we charity
8:00about the cssg did not speak to any or
8:03either of them at all
8:04during this period as it became apparent
8:07to me
8:08my chief of staff katie telford also
8:10didn't know until the briefing on may
8:128th
8:12that we charity was being proposed so my
8:16chief of staff and i
8:17were finding out about this important
8:18part of the proposal
8:20only hours before the cabinet meeting
8:23even given the rapid pace of work during
8:25the crisis this was
8:27not the way things were supposed to go
8:30we learned that there had been tough
8:32questions asked about the cssg proposal
8:34and we charity during the covid
8:36committee a few days earlier
8:39we both felt that we needed more time
8:41before this item was presented to
8:42cabinet
8:43time to consider and understand the
8:45reasons behind the proposal that we
8:47charity
8:47deliver the program on that issue we had
8:50several questions that we wanted
8:51answered
8:52particularly given my specific expertise
8:55in youth issues during the pandemic
8:59government was working very hard and
9:01very quickly we still are
9:03it was not uncommon for me to be briefed
9:05on something relatively close in time
9:07to the cabinet meeting here however
9:09given the scale of the program
9:12the questions that had been raised and
9:13my own commitment to youth issues
9:15we needed more time as well
9:18we both knew that we charity was known
9:21to be connected to people in our
9:22government
9:23including myself as i'd spoken at their
9:25events in the past
9:26so we knew that the selection of we
9:28charity would be closely scrutinized
9:31we wanted to make sure that the process
9:33and decision were
9:35the best possible in the circumstances
9:38so i decided to pull the cssg
9:42proposal from the cabinet agenda for may
9:448th
9:45so that further work could be done this
9:48wasn't an easy decision
9:49we knew the urgency by the end of april
9:52many university students had finished
9:54their exams we were already a week into
9:57may
9:58but we pulled the item from the agenda
10:00so that we could be confident
10:01we were doing the right thing the right
10:04way
10:05my primary concern was to make sure that
10:07the public service could fully support
10:09its recommendation that without a doubt
10:11we charity was the right
10:13and indeed the only partner to deliver
10:16the program
10:18i was briefed again on may 21st and the
10:20public service told me that they had
10:22done the due diligence we'd asked for
10:24and that they were confident in the
10:26recommendation in effect
10:28they said that if we wanted this program
10:30to happen it could only
10:32be with we charity
10:35the choice was not between providers
10:38it was between going ahead with we
10:41charity to deliver the program
10:43or not going ahead with the program at
10:45all
10:47given the public service advice i was
10:49comfortable that the cssg
10:51could now be presented to cabinet on may
10:5422nd
10:55minister chagar presented the program to
10:57cabinet and cabinet group
11:00after cabinet approved the cssg the next
11:03step was to approve its funding
11:05here the briefing note from policy staff
11:07in my office recommended imposing
11:09an additional oversight measure in the
11:11dispersal of the approved funding
11:13i agreed with that recommendation and
11:15directed that before additional tranches
11:18of funding were released
11:19minister chagar would have to write to
11:21the president of the treasury board
11:22to provide an update on the cssg
11:26when cabinet approved the cssg obviously
11:30i knew that i had spoken at various wii
11:32charity events i'd never been paid to do
11:35so
11:36i was also aware that my wife had an
11:38unpaid role
11:39as a wii charity ambassador and ally
11:43i knew she appeared at we charity events
11:45and that when she traveled
11:46to get to an event we charity covered
11:49her related expenses
11:51i also knew that sophie had recently
11:52launched a podcast on mental wellness
11:55in conjunction with we charity the
11:57ethics commissioner
11:59had approved this role including we
12:02charity
12:02covering her expenses i also knew that
12:06my brother
12:07and mother had worked with we charity as
12:09well with other as with
12:10other organizations however i did not
12:14know how much work either of them had
12:16done with we charity or how much they'd
12:18been paid
12:19these were things that i would only
12:20learn after the program
12:22launched publicly that said
12:25sometimes recusing oneself can be the
12:28right thing to do
12:29even if it's not required here my
12:31mother's connection to we
12:33charity and the other connections in my
12:34family could lead some people to wonder
12:37whether those connections had played
12:39some role in the decision
12:40to select we charity that of course
12:44was not the case we charity received
12:47no preferential treatment not from me
12:50not from anyone else the public service
12:52recommended we charity and i did
12:55absolutely nothing to influence
12:57that recommendation i didn't even know
12:59it had been made
13:00until may 8th and when i learned that we
13:03charity was recommended
13:05i pushed back i wanted to be satisfied
13:08that the proposal that we charity
13:09deliver the cssg
13:11had been properly scrutinized
13:20didn't receive favorable treatment from
13:22myself from anyone else
13:24the public service recommended we
13:26charity and i
13:28did absolutely nothing to influence this
13:30recommendation i didn't even know that
13:32the recommendation had been made
13:34before may 8th when i learned that we
13:38charity was being recommended i had
13:39questions and i wanted to be sure
13:41that the proposal to call on we charity
13:45was examined in depth as i said
13:49i should have recused myself from this
13:50decision to avoid any appearance of
13:52favoritism
13:54i know that appearances can harm a good
13:57program
13:58and of course that's exactly what
14:00happened here
14:01and it's truly unfortunate especially
14:03because this program
14:05could have been very significant for
14:07students in our communities
14:08to conclude neither myself nor my staff
14:12tried to influence or dictate the
14:15recommendation issued by the
14:17public servants concerning we charity
14:22to conclude there was never
14:25any direction by or attempt to influence
14:28from me or my staff that the public
14:31service
14:31recommend we charity getting young
14:34people to serve
14:35has been a goal of mine well before i
14:37ever got into politics
14:38so i deeply regret how this has unfolded
14:42it's now july 30 our government is
14:44delivering
14:45delivering an up to nine billion dollar
14:47aid package
14:48for students unfortunately the grant for
14:51volunteer service
14:52is unlikely to be part of the package
14:54this summer and that
14:56is something that i regret i'm pleased
14:58now to take any of your questions
15:01uh thank you uh thank you prime minister
15:03before we go to questions
15:05just uh for uh mr morantz's
15:08point and also for relevance i would
15:10remind the committee
15:12of the original motion as part of its
15:15study in covet 19 we hold hearings
15:18to examine how much the government spent
15:20in awarding the 912 million
15:24sole source contract we charity and how
15:27the outsourcing of the canada student
15:29service grant to we
15:30charity proceeded as far as it did
15:34on mr marantz's point and i think you
15:37are aware
15:38of this mr prime minister with the way
15:41questions work in the
15:42in the house of commons i call it the
15:45the uh
15:46covet 19 questioning experience
15:50where each member is allocated so much
15:52time and we will stick to the
15:54six minutes uh for the first round and
15:56five uh for the second uh today
15:58uh four questions and answers uh but
16:02uh the uh the the process
16:05will be uh if it's uh uh
16:08an eight second question we expect the
16:11answer to be
16:12eight uh seconds and i will try and
16:15track
16:16that uh on my uh on my
16:19ipad here i may be a little off from
16:21time to time
16:22so if we can from both sides so there
16:25will be no doubt
16:26interruptions on the part of the chair
16:28uh to
16:29the witness yourself prime minister and
16:32probably to members as well to stick to
16:34those rules
16:35the first round of questions will be uh
16:37mr paulieb
16:39followed by a splitting of time between
16:41mr fragis goddess and ms katrakas
16:43and then mr forte and mr angus mr
16:46paulieb
16:47six minutes the floor is yours thank you
16:50chair and thank you prime minister
16:53what is the total dollar value of all of
16:56the expenses reimbursed
16:58fees paid to and any other any other
17:02consideration provided by
17:05the we group to you your mother
17:09your spouse your brother and any other
17:12member of your family
17:13just the total please minister
17:19all right commute uh i don't have that
17:21exact figure uh
17:22that reimbursing expenses is something
17:25done by
17:26an organization uh for example so i
17:28don't have uh
17:29those totals
17:37mr speaker my point of order is what's
17:39the relevance of these questions of
17:41ancillary
17:42uh fees paid to family members to the
17:45official motion
17:46i i don't think that is a uh a point of
17:48order uh mr what's uh back to mr paliyev
17:52so you're telling me that you don't know
17:54how much
17:55immediate f family members have been
17:58paid in
17:58expense reimbursements by this
18:00organization
18:02my mother and my brother are
18:04professionals in their own right
18:05who uh have uh engagements uh and have
18:09for many many years with many different
18:10organizations across the country
18:12uh and i don't have the details of uh
18:15their work
18:16work experiences or their expenses
18:19and what about your spouse what what is
18:21the dollar figure
18:22uh we i think we charity has been able
18:25to share those dollar figures with you
18:27when was the last time she had an
18:29expense reimbursed by we charity
18:32uh i believe it would have been for the
18:33trip to uh to london where she spoke at
18:36wii
18:36uh but those expenses were cleared in
18:38advance by the ethics
18:40how much how much was it how much were
18:42those expenses
18:43uh i don't have that number in front of
18:45me mr prime minister
18:47it's very hard to believe you don't have
18:49that number you've been
18:51embroiled in this scandal now for over a
18:54month
18:54and these kinds of questions have been
18:56asked repeatedly i asked it to you in
18:58the house of commons weeks ago
19:00you've had time to get it so i'll ask
19:01again how much was your
19:03spouse reimbursed by we for her recent
19:06trip to london
19:07okay uh to take an example uh for a
19:10plane ticket
19:11uh that was booked for her flight to
19:13london it wasn't something that she
19:14would have paid for to be reimbursed by
19:17what about who charity the wii charity
19:19would have uh
19:20actually bought uh paid for that ticket
19:23itself so
19:24we wouldn't have those answers on our
19:26credit cards for example
19:27so you don't have any idea how much the
19:30we charity paid for your spouse to
19:31travel to london
19:33um over the past number of months i've
19:36been
19:36involved in serving canadians and
19:38focused on that
19:39but i know that the we charity
19:41themselves have shared
19:42those expenses
19:46they have not shared those expenses
19:49prime minister
19:50they have refused to tell us the
19:51itemized expense for that trip and they
19:53didn't even confirm she was on that trip
19:56uh what hotel did they pay for her to
19:58stay at i don't know
20:00okay this would have been a very
20:02expensive trip
20:04and it would have been paid for in march
20:07your government then a month later was
20:10amassing a program of a half a billion
20:12dollars
20:13which you now admit you helped approve a
20:16month after that
20:18how could you possibly have believed
20:20that it was appropriate
20:22for you to approve
20:26a nearly half billion dollar grant to a
20:29group
20:30that only 60 days earlier was paying for
20:33sumptuous travels for
20:35immediate members of your family the
20:38prime minister
20:39the ethics commissioner fully cleared
20:42sophie's
20:42volunteer unpaid work with we
20:46whether it's for her podcast or her
20:47appearance at wii events or her work as
20:49a wii
20:50ambassador and ally it was all entirely
20:53unpaid
20:53but they reimpursed expenses and that
20:56was clearance that was gotten in advance
20:58by the ethics commissioner
21:03we're on equal time here and the prime
21:05minister still has time
21:06go ahead prime minister obviously that
21:08was uh not a concern for me knowing that
21:10the ethics commissioner had
21:12uh had approved of sophie volunteering
21:16her time and having expenses covered uh
21:18for
21:19engagements with this uh and when you
21:21became
21:22when you came and became involved with
21:24the decision to approve the half billion
21:25dollar grant to we charity
21:28on uh may the 5th did you then
21:30immediately inform the ethics
21:32commissioner
21:33that you were doing that and remind uh
21:36and also inform the ethics commissioner
21:38that this group was paying expenses for
21:40your spouse
21:42as as i said the ethics commissioner
21:43already knew uh because he had approved
21:46uh sophie uh volunteering with the wii
21:48organization
21:49uh a long time ago and secondly
21:52uh the uh my knowledge of we being
21:56involved in delivering this program
21:58only happened on may 8th not on may 5th
22:01as you are saying
22:02on may 8th did you contact the ethics
22:04commissioner to seek permission
22:06to be part of the decision to approve
22:07this half billion dollar grant
22:09yes or no on may 8th i received the
22:12uh formal recommendation by the public
22:15schools
22:18that they go ahead with the wii program
22:20uh to deliver it and
22:22i pulled it back from cabinet and asked
22:24them to do further due diligence because
22:26i knew there would be questions
22:28i'm sorry prime minister back to mr
22:29paliyev time remaining
22:31uh you have about uh 68 seconds
22:37mr prime minister you admit now that you
22:39should have
22:41uh removed yourself from the decision to
22:43grant this half billion dollar grant
22:46to the we charity you were found guilty
22:49of taking a free vacation from someone
22:52who sought a 15 million dollar grant
22:55from you strike one
22:56you were found guilty of interfering
22:58with the criminal prosecution
23:00of a liberal link corporation point of
23:02order
23:03uh what's your point of order mr sibera
23:06uh
23:06the mpd polio abroad has brought up some
23:09points that are
23:10not of relevance to uh this committee
23:12and the motion put forth
23:14i i am going to allow the uh going to
23:17allow the
23:18the question but uh mr paliyev please
23:20leave time for the answer in your
23:22six minutes as well go ahead
23:25thank you you you were twice found
23:28guilty of breaking the ethics act before
23:30uh strikes one and two and now you admit
23:34a third strike by your failure to break
23:37to recuse yourself
23:38uh and in the process you broke the
23:41ethics act a third time
23:43what happens in baseball when you have
23:45three strikes
23:46uh that's the end of the year round mr
23:49pauliev
23:50mr prime ministry of about 30 seconds to
23:52respond
23:54as i said to canadians a number of weeks
23:56ago
23:57i should have recused myself knowing uh
23:59the connections
24:00between my family and the perceptions
24:02around this issue
24:03however i did not uh
24:06intervene to make sure make this
24:09recommendation happen
24:10when the recommendation came forward
24:12from the public service
24:14i sent it back to the public service to
24:16say you really need to make sure that
24:18this
24:19is uh indeed the only organization that
24:21can deliver this program
24:22and that this is done exactly the right
24:24way uh because
24:26there is going to be careful scrutiny on
24:27this uh at that point
24:29instead i should have recused myself but
24:31i didn't i decided to push back instead
24:33and that i regret because uh young
24:35people aren't having the opportunities
24:37they would have had this summer
24:39through that program even though there's
24:40many other things we're doing for young
24:42people
24:43thank you prime minister we'll turn to
24:45uh mr fragis goddess for four minutes
24:47and miss katrakas for two on a split
24:49round uh mr fragis goddess
24:51thank you chair thank you prime minister
24:53for being here uh first of all mr prime
24:55minister is there a personal
24:57relationship between you
24:58and the kill burgers are you friends
25:01have you spent social time together
25:03have you had dinners together or
25:05anything like that uh
25:06no i have seen them uh at events
25:10but not outside of uh official or public
25:13events
25:14thank you very much i do want to ask you
25:16prime minister about the lack of recusal
25:19some have suggested that perhaps the
25:21recusal
25:22did not happen because the pandemic is
25:24forcing decisions to be made quicker
25:27than ever before and when decisions are
25:29made quickly mistakes are more
25:31likely to happen first of all to what
25:33extent is that a fair
25:35observation in your view and second if
25:37it is a fair observation
25:39coven 19 will certainly set the context
25:42within which
25:43policy is made for some time to come
25:46that implies that choices about policy
25:48and programs will need to continue to be
25:50made
25:50very quickly are there mechanisms in
25:53place
25:54at the cabinet level or in other
25:55institutions of decision making
25:58are they in place to prevent a mistake
26:01of this kind from happening again
26:04first of all thank you thank you for the
26:05question obviously yes
26:07during a time of pandemic uh things are
26:10accelerated and as i said from the
26:11beginning
26:12uh and as i've said throughout this uh
26:14this pandemic and all my press
26:16conferences
26:16uh we've moved quickly to try and get
26:19help out to people
26:20as fast as we could as flexibly as we
26:22could and
26:23we would fix those mistakes as we went
26:25on so there was an understanding that if
26:26we
26:27waited until everything was perfect
26:28before doing anything uh far too many
26:31canadians would suffer and because of
26:32the health
26:33health emergency uh even die so we
26:36needed to act
26:37quickly and that is certainly part of
26:39the context but
26:41i don't think it's the whole reason as
26:42to why it didn't
26:44i didn't recuse myself youth issues have
26:47been something that i've been deeply
26:48involved with
26:49all my career and i care deeply about
26:52the idea of youth service
26:53and seeing young people be able to help
26:56in their communities
26:57with organizations across the country so
26:59this this proposal
27:00mattered to me and i instead of
27:03encouraging it along like some people
27:05say because
27:05it was somehow connected to my family i
27:08actually slowed it down
27:09and pushed back on it to try and make
27:12sure
27:12that everything was done exactly right
27:15because i knew
27:16there would be questions act asked
27:18because of the links of the family but
27:20in no way was this benefiting my mother
27:23or my brother to be
27:24creating a grant program for students to
27:27volunteer in their communities
27:28right across the country that's true
27:30fragrance thank you chair
27:32final question before i turn it over to
27:34miss cutrakas
27:35uh prime minister to the point about
27:37youth and the
27:39canada student service grant uh in
27:41principle of course
27:43uh a great idea great vision
27:46uh i am worried though about whether or
27:48not the program
27:49will come to fruition i've asked this
27:52question uh to minister mourinho to
27:54minister checker
27:55to the clerk of the privy council i know
27:58uh colleagues might accuse me of being
28:00repeating myself here but so we do have
28:02you at committee
28:03i have many constituents anxious to
28:05volunteer i have many not-for-profits
28:07and charities in the community of london
28:09ontario that want that volunteer effort
28:11as they
28:11try to deal with the challenge that is
28:13copa19 will this program go ahead
28:16if not why not and the money that was
28:18allocated towards it
28:20if the program does not go ahead where
28:22will that money go
28:23to the prime minister if you can keep it
28:25pretty tight sir okay
28:27of course quickly uh first of all young
28:29people
28:30are right now volunteering in their
28:32communities across the country we're
28:33seeing young people step up in big ways
28:36to help out to contribute in this time
28:38of crisis
28:39um what they won't be getting through
28:42this program
28:42is uh rewards or recognition for a
28:45thousand hours of work or four thousand
28:47or five thousand hours of work
28:48that was what we were trying to
28:49encourage young people to do uh even
28:51more volunteering that way
28:53however at the same time we continue to
28:55look for ways to encourage volunteerism
28:57to encourage young people to get
28:59involved
28:59i know that minister chagar continues to
29:01work very hard on that and i am hopeful
29:03that we will be able to continue to
29:05support young people in volunteerism
29:07as we're supporting them with both the
29:09emergency
29:10benefit for students and with lots of
29:12jobs for students through the summer
29:14jobs program
29:15this is kotrakus
29:18thank you mr chair i'm having technical
29:20issues here sorry
29:22uh thank you mr chair and thank you
29:24prime minister for accepting to come to
29:26our committee this afternoon
29:28to clarify some real important issues
29:30for all canadians
29:32um let's remind ourselves the grave and
29:34unprecedented crisis that you
29:36and our government had to deal with in a
29:39real
29:40hurry as you yourself said to ensure the
29:42safety of canadians and to save
29:45our economy my question to you is
29:48uh there's been a suggestion and that we
29:50charity
29:51started to pay your mother in 2016
29:55because of your role as prime minister
29:57can you
29:58please speak to your mother's personal
30:00experience her advocacy and commitment
30:02to mental health before you were elected
30:04as prime minister in 2015
30:07and her qualifications as a speaker on
30:09this issue
30:10and as a follow-up because i know i'm
30:12short for time
30:14did you at any time encourage your
30:16mother to be involved in the we
30:18organization
30:19or other charitable causes
30:22mr prime minister my mother has had a
30:25fascinating uh but challenging life in
30:28many ways and she shared that story
30:30uh in her in her 2010 uh autobiography
30:34after that she uh started speaking and
30:36sharing stories and
30:38uh encouraging different organizations
30:40who are working particularly in mental
30:41health but in other areas
30:43as she did that she realized there is a
30:46need and a demand for
30:47more destigmatization around mental
30:49health issues and better advocacy for it
30:51so she actually wrote another book
30:53called time of my life
30:54that is focused on mental health issues
30:56which she published in 2015
30:58around publishing that book which also
31:01involved
31:02working with doctors and experts around
31:04in the field of mental health
31:05she has been empowering people and
31:07supporting organizations across the
31:09country
31:10professionally uh for for a long time
31:12since then
31:13with the greater focus on mental health
31:15that has come over the past five years
31:17it is not a surprise at all that various
31:20organizations
31:21would turn to her expertise and her
31:23involvement but i never
31:25directly or indirectly encouraged her to
31:27work
31:28for we or any other specific
31:30organization okay we will have to go on
31:32to
31:32uh mr forte mr forte six minutes and
31:36your
31:36mic is muted sir there you go
31:40thank you very much chair prime minister
31:44at a certain time or at any time during
31:46your relationship
31:48with uh we charity in recent months
31:50[Music]
31:52you checked the lobbyist register to
31:55ensure
31:55that the government was not dealing with
31:58the company
31:59registered on the lobbyists list
32:02personally i had no interaction
32:06with people from we in recent months
32:12i would expect ministers who had
32:13commitments with various organizations
32:16uh to do their job to check with the
32:19lobbyist
32:21commissioner i realized that personally
32:22you did not check that
32:24and you do not ask your chief of staff
32:26to do so either
32:28no my chief of staff did not have an
32:30interaction either
32:31with we charity the question was did you
32:34ask your chief of staff if the
32:36kielburgers
32:37were registered on that list no we did
32:40not have any interactions either myself
32:42or my uh chief of staff no you didn't
32:45ask her to check it
32:47you know that there are people on the
32:49cabinet such as mr morneau
32:51travel with the key burgers your family
32:53has ties with the charity
32:55and you could have asked whether it was
32:58correct to give conferences well there
33:00are rather close ties
33:03between the trudeau family and people
33:06from we charity
33:08these were close ties and you never
33:10checked the lobbyist register
33:12to check this you never asked someone in
33:15your entourage to do so
33:17mr forte you're talking about close ties
33:19with the kill burgers
33:21i'm not friends with the kill burgers i
33:23know them
33:25but we don't have close ties
33:28yes for quite some time i've been
33:30working in the youth sector before i got
33:32involved in politics
33:34so i have an idea of what they're doing
33:36i participated in events many times
33:39throughout my life
33:42in terms of the lobbyist commissioner
33:44you know full well
33:46that it was up it's up to the companies
33:48to
33:49get involved in this it's not the
33:51responsibility of politicians to get
33:53involved in that
33:55so in your opinion you don't have an
33:56obligation when someone comes to you
34:00to ensure that they're registered on the
34:02lobbyist register
34:05when they want to do lobbying yes
34:07absolutely but there was no opportunity
34:10when the kilburgers or anyone else from
34:11lee made commitments
34:13in terms of lobbying with our government
34:17perhaps never or at least not in recent
34:20months
34:22how many millions of dollars were paid
34:25to we
34:25charity or organization in their network
34:29since you were elected in 2015 mr
34:31trudeau
34:32i know it's been several millions of
34:34dollars i'd also like to highlight
34:36that previous conservative governments
34:40and provinces also have made commitments
34:43and contracts with this organization
34:45which does remarkable work for young
34:47people across the country
34:51i want to know if this money has been
34:53properly managed or not
34:55and of course there are questions that
34:58seem important to us
34:59but in terms of the lobbyists register
35:02since
35:032015 when you came to power as prime
35:06minister
35:08i've seen figures earlier five or 10
35:10million
35:12millions of dollars that have been paid
35:13to we charity
35:22first in terms of your question about
35:25contributions to we charity
35:27neither myself or my office were
35:29involved
35:31in any of those agreements with the
35:34uh we charity organization and in terms
35:38of mr morneau
35:40no i did not know particularly that he
35:43traveled
35:44with we charity i knew he had a daughter
35:47who was involved
35:49not the one who works for we charity but
35:51another daughter
35:53who was involved with that organization
35:55mr trudeau
36:00what do you mean by i didn't know
36:01specifically that mr moralnow traveled
36:05with him particularly what does that
36:06mean exactly it doesn't surprise me
36:09because i knew
36:10how involved mr malnour was in many
36:13causes
36:14including the youth cause but no
36:17i did not know that he had made a
36:20specific trip with we charity
36:22but you knew that his daughter worked
36:24for we no
36:26sorry i knew that one of his daughters
36:29had
36:30projects with we she
36:33wrote a book about the commitment of
36:36women
36:37i received this book at one point in
36:39time but i didn't know he had another
36:40daughter who worked
36:42as such for we charity
36:45left mr forte one minute left
36:50prime minister did you ask mr mourinho
36:53at any par
36:54point in time to ensure that people from
36:57we charity were registered on the
36:59lobbyist list
37:01since i didn't know that there had been
37:04interactions with we charity
37:06in
37:10i wouldn't have had the opportunity or a
37:12reason
37:13to ask questions about lobbying and the
37:15kill burgers
37:17did you ask ms question
37:20as i said i didn't know that we charity
37:24had been selected to deliver this
37:26program during the
37:28process that was taking place so
37:31i wouldn't have had a chance to ask any
37:33questions about lobbying
37:35on april 9th you announced the program
37:38right after
37:39we charity was involved and of course
37:42you know that we charity has been
37:44evolved for quite some time you never
37:46asked any of your
37:47ministers or your members of your
37:49entourage to check to see if we charity
37:51was registered on the lobbyist list
37:53you have no knowledge of that first that
37:56is
37:56not the role of the prime minister to
38:00ask his ministers to check the lobbying
38:02list we have people in our office so to
38:04do that they have to do their job
38:05second we charity invitation
38:09i only received it on may 8th once all
38:11these decisions and recommendations had
38:13been made
38:14by the public service sorry mr forte and
38:17we're uh we're a little over
38:19uh we'll turn to uh mr angus uh for
38:22uh six minutes who will be followed by
38:24uh uh mr
38:26paulieb and then mr mcleod mr angus well
38:29thank you so much mr chair and thank you
38:31mr prime minister for joining us today
38:34i agree with you canadians are in the
38:35worst uh medical
38:37uh and economic catastrophe in a century
38:41and i think what's very frustrating for
38:42me is that we've worked very hard across
38:44party lines to reassure canadians
38:47that we are putting their interests
38:48first and yet we're here
38:50today because of this i think very
38:53unnecessary scandal
38:55and it comes down fundamentally to a
38:57question
38:58of your judgment i mean there were
39:00numerous red flags with this proposal it
39:02fell apart the second it was announced
39:04but the question that sticks with people
39:07is you've been found guilty twice
39:09of breaking the conflict interest act do
39:12you seem to have this
39:14you give an impression anyways that you
39:16don't believe that the laws that define
39:18what politicians can
39:19and cannot do uh applies to you
39:23and so here we are with a case that was
39:25such an obvious conflict of interest
39:27because of your connection with
39:28kielburgers
39:30that has derailed so much good work and
39:32hurt students
39:33do you recognize uh what you've done
39:36here
39:36and the damage that's been done to all
39:38of us trying to reassure canadians
39:41mr prime minister first of all mr angus
39:44through this uh pandemic that as you say
39:47has been extraordinarily difficult and
39:49impactful on canadians
39:51we have remained focused on them we have
39:53delivered to over 8 million canadians
39:56the canada emergency response benefit a
39:58wage subsidy that has kept businesses
40:00going
40:01commercial rent assistance uh support
40:03for seniors
40:04support for for students a nine billion
40:07dollar package of which
40:08yes this volunteer program was
40:11uh a part and it is disappointing that
40:14we're not going to be able to give
40:15grants
40:16uh for students who are volunteering
40:18across the country
40:20so far and we still are working on that
40:22obviously but
40:23at the same time mr angus you need to
40:25know that we
40:26have delivered concretely uh for
40:29canadians
40:30we also when i received uh the
40:33information
40:34that the we charity was being chosen
40:37recommended by public service to deliver
40:39the student grant program uh i pushed
40:42back
40:43perhaps because of the experience that
40:45you highlight that
40:46but mr prime minister pushbacks in the
40:48past
40:49so uh i wanted to make sure that
40:52all the eyes were dotted all the t's
40:54were crossed the public service
40:56was ready to fully justify that choice
40:59of
41:00we charity as the only organization
41:05i guess the issue is that for canadians
41:08the idea that this was the only game in
41:10town that we was the only game in town
41:12i'm sure
41:13around your cabinet it probably was but
41:16the fact is that the keel brother burger
41:18brothers carefully cultivated
41:20their relationship with you and your
41:23brand
41:24after you became prime minister they put
41:26you on the stadium circuit
41:27they hired your family members for the
41:29two and a half million dollars
41:31they hired the finance minister's
41:32daughter they flew him around the world
41:34they even made their staff go to his
41:36parties
41:38do you think that that's not conflict of
41:40interest is that conflict of interest
41:42yes or no okay from the very first mr
41:45angus you were
41:46unfortunately uh misleading people with
41:48with your uh
41:49with your your proposal um this was not
41:52something that
41:53we selected this is not something that
41:55cabinet selected cabinet was presented a
41:58choice
41:58by our professional public service
42:00saying if you want to deliver this
42:02summer volunteer program the summer
42:03grant program
42:04it's going to have to be with this
42:06through this third-party organization
42:08they didn't give us
42:09a choice of two or three different
42:10organizations so when you say
42:12that it was maybe the reality around the
42:14cabinet people but it wasn't necessarily
42:16the reality out there
42:17you're actually impugning the very fine
42:19public servants who have oh mr
42:21extraordinary work across this pandemic
42:23on delivering for canadians
42:25and they said there is no other
42:27organization that can
42:28deliver the scale of grants back
42:31to uh mr angus uh i believe thank you
42:35well mr prime minister i totally agree
42:36with you about the
42:38civil service that's why your decision
42:40to privatize this
42:42and give it to the kiwa kielberger
42:43brothers really concerns me
42:45and what really concerns me is you
42:46didn't answer the question about whether
42:48or not
42:48that you thought that your close family
42:51financial relationships
42:53and the morono family close financial
42:55relationships
42:56is a conflict of interest that is why
42:58we're here we're not here because
43:00of the civil service we're here because
43:02you don't seem to understand mr prime
43:04minister
43:05that conflict of interest applies to you
43:08so when you tell us
43:09that we charity was the only game in
43:11town well they were
43:12in your world but obviously this deal
43:15fell apart
43:15and you need to understand that your
43:18conflict of interest has put you here
43:21mr prime minister mr angus uh
43:25your con your your uh statement
43:28that in my world or in our cabinet we
43:32were the only game in town
43:33is simply untrue it is a professional
43:37public service that put forward the
43:40recommendation that
43:41said to us having done their due
43:43diligence that the only organization
43:46with the scale and the capacity to
43:48deliver this grant program
43:50would be we personally i thought we were
43:53going to be able to deliver it through
43:54the canada service corps
43:56uh which i created two or three years
43:57ago and was
43:59all about rewarding service and creating
44:01opportunities for service for young
44:03people
44:03uh we i would have loved to seen it
44:06supercharged and accelerated to be able
44:08to deliver many thousands of
44:09opportunities for young people
44:12but that wasn't able to be done and the
44:14public service
44:15themselves made the recommendation that
44:18we had to go with we charity last uh
44:24mr angus and it'll have to be a very
44:26quick one well very quickly mr prime
44:28minister
44:29as the former youth voice you could have
44:32been talking to the federation of
44:34students when
44:34you were telling them that they were not
44:36eligible for serb
44:37when you told them to work for less than
44:39the minimum wage
44:40when you pushed this deal with the
44:42kielburger brothers and refused to
44:44recuse yourself and not
44:45a dime has gone out the door over to you
44:48mr prime minister thank you uh
44:50mr angus and the ndp have said this a
44:52few times this idea that
44:54volunteering is somehow working for less
44:56than the minimum wage
44:57i'd like to remind that's what the
44:59biggest thing is
45:00the prime minister is the floor the
45:02heart of this country and people get out
45:04and volunteer not for money but because
45:06they want to make a difference in the
45:07world and if you start
45:08calculating every volunteer as working
45:11for less than the minimum wage
45:12then you are missing a really important
45:14part mr angus of the fabric of canada
45:17and getting people to step up and
45:19volunteer
45:20is something we will we will have to uh
45:23end that round there gentlemen uh we are
45:26going now to
45:27uh five uh minute rounds and we'll start
45:29with uh mr pauliev followed by mr
45:32macleod uh mr paulieb
45:34mr mr chair i'll be taking mr paulian's
45:36time
45:37oh okay uh who was that that yelled
45:40there
45:41uh mp barrett sir oh okay sorry uh mr
45:44barrett uh yeah i had mr
45:46pauly up on my list i'll not take my
45:47talking from your time you get the floor
45:50thank you uh prime minister uh just
45:52looking for a number how many times
45:54would one of your ministers need to be
45:56found guilty
45:57of breaking the conflict of interest act
45:59for you to fire them
46:00how many times sir obviously
46:04our our uh our cabinet is formed of
46:07extraordinary individuals who serve
46:08their country
46:09uh and uh i have confidence in their
46:11ability to do just that
46:13how many times would they need to break
46:14the act before you would fire them
46:17obviously any time someone uh
46:20contravenes the ethics commissioner's
46:21act we take it very seriously
46:23and we'll look at each situation based
46:25on the gravity of the situation
46:28okay well you claimed in your opening
46:29remarks that you had
46:31basically no idea what was happening in
46:34your government
46:35who are you holding accountable for this
46:38decision mr barrett over
46:41the past number of months uh as a
46:44government and as
46:45a prime minister i've been involved in
46:47uh the decisions
46:49around serb around the wage subsidy
46:52around helping canadians through this
46:54extraordinary time of crisis uh we've
46:56been involved in working
46:58quickly and flexibly with an
47:00extraordinarily professional public
47:01service
47:02to deliver tremendous programs to help
47:05canadians
47:08of many many of these prime minister
47:10there was no vetting done
47:12of we charity there are major concerns
47:15with this organization who is
47:17responsible for the vetting
47:19the public service would have done their
47:21due diligence to ensure
47:23which organizations could deliver
47:26the program as we had laid it out and
47:29they found that only
47:30we charity had the ability to do that
47:33through their due diligence process
47:35that's true barrett the organization
47:38that
47:38that you approved sir was
47:41you know you had a a massive contract
47:44given to a
47:45shell company with no experience running
47:48a government grant program that's a
47:50problem
47:52someone should be held accountable who
47:55are you going to fire
47:57mr prime minister mr barrett the public
48:00service
48:01uh which has delivered extraordinary
48:03programs including
48:04with third third-party uh third-party
48:06organizations when we wanted to help out
48:08shelters
48:09we went through united way when we
48:11wanted to help food banks the public
48:12service reached out to food banks canada
48:14to make sure that they could get that
48:16money out they have consistently worked
48:18with third-party organizations as
48:20part of their decision to do that they
48:22have done full due diligence on that
48:24organization's ability
48:26to deliver the program and prime
48:27minister
48:29prime minister cabinet is responsible
48:31for decisions
48:33not the public service a major mistake
48:36was made
48:37someone in cabinet should be held
48:39accountable which minister will you fire
48:42minister mourinho minister chagar which
48:44minister
48:46the decision in cabinet uh was not as to
48:49which organization should deliver uh the
48:52canada's student summer grants uh the
48:55decision cabinet was
48:56should we have a summer grants program
48:59or not
49:00uh that was the binary choice given to
49:02us by the public service and the
49:04minister
49:05and cabinet made a decision that uh
49:07making uh
49:08trading opportunities for young people
49:10to serve you still think we was a good
49:12choice
49:13do you still think we was a good choice
49:15to run this program sir
49:16i i we will we will never know because
49:19they pulled out of that uh that being
49:21able to deliver the program
49:23partially because i hadn't recused
49:26myself
49:26and created uh complications here and
49:28that's something that i deeply regret
49:30because
49:30creating opportunities for young people
49:32to serve is something that matters
49:34deeply to all canadians across the
49:35country mr mr bear
49:37just uh not take the time from you uh mr
49:39barrett but
49:40somebody's got their mic on and some
49:42sound is coming through
49:44uh okay mr barrett
49:47were you aware that the we organization
49:50had fired its board chair
49:51shortly before they were given this
49:53contract no it was not
49:55were you aware that we had fired a very
49:58large portion
49:59of its staff no it was not
50:04how many times uh did your
50:08family members receive remuneration from
50:11this organization
50:12since you've been elected as prime
50:13minister uh as i said
50:16uh my wife works on an unpaid basis
50:20for we and other organizations and had
50:23it cleared by the ethics commissioner in
50:25advance
50:26for both her engagement because she's
50:29been
50:29an advocate and a tv and radio host
50:33professionally through her entire career
50:35that her
50:36activities with this organization and
50:38other organizations
50:40for free with being reimbursed for
50:42expenses was something that was cleared
50:44by the ethics commissioner uh when she
50:46first wanted to
50:47become an advocate around this issues
50:49with that organization
50:51you have a minute left mr baird
50:55so every dollar that your wife received
50:58in reimbursement reimbursement
51:00or in uh payment uh was cleared in
51:02advance by the commissioner
51:04as as i said mr barrett this was unpaid
51:07work my wife was doing
51:09uh to uh for a cause that she believes
51:11in deeply uh talking about
51:12destigmatization of mental health
51:14empowerment of uh young young people
51:17particularly girls
51:18this is something that she believed in
51:20deeply and yes we got approval by the
51:22ethics commissioner that she could
51:24uh volunteer with this organization and
51:26have expenses related to that
51:28volunteerism
51:29reimbursed so one question keep it tight
51:32uh well i i want to know if the prime
51:33minister can tell us what due diligence
51:35looks like
51:36we have a comp we have an organization
51:37that had no assets it was a shell
51:39corporation they were in violation of
51:41bank covenants
51:41a fired board chair they were firing
51:44employees and the government of canada
51:46handed over a 500 million dollar
51:48contract
51:49for them to administer what what what
51:52was that due diligence that was done sir
51:54the public service ensures that any
51:56third-party partner that we can
51:58we work with on delivery of a program
52:01uh is capable of delivering the program
52:04they have a rigorous and strong process
52:07to do that
52:08and i have confidence in our public
52:09service to be able to do that
52:10particularly because
52:11during this time of pandemic they had
52:13demonstrated with many
52:15third-party organizations an ability to
52:17get help to canadians
52:18in record fashion uh when people needed
52:21it the most
52:22thank you uh thank you both uh turning
52:25into mr mcleod who will be
52:27followed by mr pauliev on my list uh mr
52:30mcleod you have five minutes
52:32thank you mr chairman and thank you to
52:35the prime minister for joining us here
52:36today
52:37um i'm glad that when the question was
52:41brought to the cabinet table to run a
52:43summer student program
52:45you said yes because i think it's very
52:48important that we do so
52:49and i think that's uh something we
52:51should continue to try to achieve
52:53this is our fifth meeting on the topic
52:56of government spending
52:58we and the canada summer student
53:01service grant throughout this whole
53:04study
53:05my greatest concern is that uh for the
53:08whole month
53:10since it was determined that we was no
53:12longer going to
53:13administer the program
53:16the program is now in jeopardy that is
53:19one
53:19whole month that the youth have missed
53:22out on
53:23experiences and assistance that the
53:25canada student service grant
53:27could have provided in many parts of the
53:30country
53:31uh including here in the north i'm the
53:33member of parliament for northwest
53:34territories
53:35or those that don't know uh and
53:37indigenous communities
53:39many of our youth already face
53:43many barriers uh two opportunities that
53:46other parts of the country enjoy we are
53:49remote we have struggled with
53:52connectivity
53:54there's a high cost of living and i i
53:56need to ask you
53:58if the government is going to address
53:59the fact that our youth have uh
54:02lost out because of this delay
54:06mr prime minister thank you uh thank you
54:09mr mcleod for your
54:10for your words and quite frankly for
54:12your advocacy for at northern youth and
54:14indeed all youth across the country
54:16uh i share those concerns and that's why
54:18we move forward with
54:20multiple ways to support young people
54:22through this pandemic
54:23we looked at a 9 billion dollar package
54:27to support young people that includes
54:29deferral of student loans
54:31that includes creation of summer jobs
54:34and opportunities for them at a time
54:35where
54:36we know that their regular summer jobs
54:38may not exist because of the pandemic
54:41and it also included the canada
54:43emergency student response benefit that
54:45gives twelve hundred and fifty dollars
54:47per month to students who need it uh two
54:50thousand dollars a month to students
54:52who have uh dependents and that was
54:54something that we worked out with other
54:55parties as well
54:56so there are many many different things
54:58we're doing for young people
54:59this particular program the canada
55:02student service grant
55:03uh was created to incentivize and to
55:06reward young people who are
55:08stepping up in their communities it was
55:10about giving a grant
55:12to young people for that service that
55:14they were so many of them doing already
55:16what we continue to see even without
55:19this financial reward we would have been
55:21able to deliver and the coordination
55:23across the country
55:24we see young people in the north and the
55:26south right across the country
55:28stepping up and volunteering in
55:30community organizations because they
55:31know
55:32that this is a historic time in which
55:34their actions
55:35their voices their efforts uh can shape
55:38our country for the better and again
55:39i am always deeply grateful to young
55:41people uh and their uh leadership within
55:44our country
55:45mr mcleod yeah thank you for that
55:47response uh
55:48i i heard your response to uh my
55:51colleague uh when he asked about
55:53this program earlier and i'm hoping that
55:55uh
55:56i i can use this opportunity to
55:59encourage
55:59the delivery of this program maybe
56:02through the public service instead
56:04and and consideration to
56:08adjusting the original eligibility
56:10period
56:11uh to sometime down the road into
56:15october or or for perhaps reprofiling
56:18the grant uh the grant funding into
56:20another program to support young
56:21canadians
56:22is that something cabinet would be
56:24interested
56:25talking about absolutely uh we know that
56:28we need to do more for young people and
56:30encouraging young people to volunteer
56:32and be involved in their communities is
56:33a great way not just of giving them
56:35experiences and opportunity
56:37but of actually tangibly helping out
56:39seniors young
56:40young people marginalized people
56:42community organizations
56:44these are things that uh young people
56:46young students stepping up can make a
56:47huge difference in so
56:49we're going to continue to look for ways
56:50to do it like i said the canada student
56:53corps
56:53which was created a few years ago is
56:55exactly about that about coordinating
56:58volunteer organizations to create
57:00opportunities for young people across
57:01the country
57:02it wasn't uh able to to scale up
57:05uh in a way that uh allowed uh the uh
57:08public service to choose it to deliver
57:11uh this uh cssg program uh but
57:14uh as we continue to look for other ways
57:16to deliver the cssg i know
57:18that the canada service corps which is
57:20uh internal to government
57:21is something that people are looking at
57:23very carefully you'll have to split 30
57:24seconds with the prime minister mr
57:26mcleod
57:27i just wanted to ask uh if you could
57:30just lay out some of the challenges that
57:31the
57:32canada service corps program faced that
57:36made them unable to deliver the program
57:38initially
57:39very quickly prime minister we were
57:41hoping to launch
57:42a uh a first uh pilot project with about
57:45seven
57:45thousand uh volunteers uh this coming
57:48september
57:49uh as a as a way of starting uh starting
57:51the activities of the canada service
57:53corps in a tangible
57:54way uh that's a far cry from the tens of
57:56thousands of volunteers
57:58that we would have needed or would have
57:59wanted uh through this program to give
58:01grants to
58:02uh in this time of uh pandemic it was a
58:05a scale
58:05problem and a program delivery challenge
58:09thank you uh we'll go to uh mr paliev
58:12who will be
58:12fired uh followed followed
58:16by miss uh zerowitz uh mr paulie have
58:18five minutes please
58:20yes or no question mr chair uh
58:23prime minister you twice were found
58:25guilty of breaking the ethics
58:27act after those two convictions
58:30did you decide to read the act
58:33you got 14 seconds prime minister um
58:36yes i have read the act a number of
58:38times are you aware of section 21
58:41uh yes since i've read the act i'm aware
58:44of sections what does it say
58:45i can pull it up for you but if you have
58:47it in front of you
58:48well it says office holder of which you
58:50are one shall recuse himself or herself
58:52from any discussion
58:54decision debate or vote in any matter in
58:57which
58:57uh uh in respect of which he or she
58:59would be in a conflict of interest
59:02now what you've admitted today is not
59:04just that you were in a conflict of
59:06interest
59:07but that you consciously recognized in
59:10your may
59:10cabinet meeting that such a conflict
59:13might exist
59:14that it didn't just slide by your desk
59:17that you were consciously aware
59:19that there was a an inappropriate link
59:21to your family
59:22that would put you in a conflict why did
59:25you
59:26at that moment not call the ethics
59:28commissioner
59:29and recuse yourself that is simply
59:33not true mr polyeff the
59:36issue of advancing uh issues for royal
59:39ones and by the way the ethics
59:41commissioner is looking into this right
59:43now and
59:44i fully trust his judgment on on
59:46determining it uh but
59:47at the same time my concern around
59:49recusing myself was a question around
59:51perceptions uh because i knew cool well
59:54that this canada summer students grant
59:56cardone 16 was not going to directly
59:58benefit
59:59my mother or my brother you're 16
1:00:01seconds sir
1:00:03your 16 seconds are up i'm going to ask
1:00:05you again because
1:00:06nobody nobody believes you when you say
1:00:10you don't know how much money your
1:00:11family has got from the we group
1:00:14you've had a month to look into that you
1:00:16knew you were going to testify here
1:00:18again how much money total have your
1:00:21brother mother and spouse received
1:00:25from this organization how much that
1:00:28information
1:00:29has been publicly shared but i will
1:00:31highlight and tell me what it is
1:00:32uh my mother how much has uh had just
1:00:35the dollar figure
1:00:36throughout her life the dollar figure
1:00:38premium various ways and is
1:00:40how much of the work that she's done and
1:00:42i'm proud of how much
1:00:43i'm looking for a dollar figure we can
1:00:45get that number for you if you like it's
1:00:47been an
1:00:47out in the media it's been in the media
1:00:49but you don't know it i don't have it in
1:00:51front of me
1:00:52you don't know how much your family has
1:00:53received from this organization which
1:00:55you tried to give a half billion dollars
1:00:57really
1:00:59can i answer mr pauliev i'm waiting you
1:01:02haven't done an answer so far let's make
1:01:04this the first one
1:01:07my mother has worked as an advocate
1:01:10the dollar figure prime minister speaker
1:01:13uh for
1:01:14many good organizations across the
1:01:16country
1:01:17mr prime minister you are out
1:01:20you are being asked a direct question at
1:01:23a parliamentary committee support her
1:01:24because she does her own work and i'm
1:01:26point of order
1:01:28point of view i do not uh
1:01:31feel that it is answering my
1:01:32responsibility to peer into
1:01:34uh the work my mother is doing because i
1:01:36have a point of order to suspend what
1:01:38she's doing
1:01:39um point of our point of order we
1:01:42learned that the uh
1:01:43the chairperson's power has gone out and
1:01:46is no longer
1:01:47part of this meeting um uh may i propose
1:01:50okay we can
1:01:54no i suspect that that might be a
1:01:56problem it's very convenient timing for
1:01:58the lights to go out
1:02:00look i got a message to the effect that
1:02:02his power has gone out i have no reason
1:02:03to to distrust him
1:02:05i hope you don't pull the fire alarm now
1:02:07yeah well look that there's no intent in
1:02:09my own private home here in the middle
1:02:11of a pandemic i don't have a fire alarm
1:02:13um the general the general
1:02:16process is that the vice chair assumes
1:02:19uh
1:02:20assumes the chairing of the meeting so
1:02:21we'll continue that would that would be
1:02:23that would be me so we'll continue the
1:02:25meeting um
1:02:26and i now give the floor to the member
1:02:28for carlton
1:02:30um mr prime minister you have i'm going
1:02:33to ask you one last time
1:02:35how much did your family get from this
1:02:37organization
1:02:39how much have you read the conflict of
1:02:41interest uh act
1:02:42mystery i have how does it define
1:02:46foreign
1:02:50the conflict of interest act defines
1:02:52family as
1:02:53spouse and direct independence point of
1:02:55view you're not going to have
1:02:56a pressure point so you're not going to
1:02:59answer the question
1:03:01so you're not going to answer the
1:03:02question about how much your family
1:03:03receive okay you're right
1:03:05gentlemen thank you uh for mr um
1:03:09and it was christian prime minister
1:03:11commissioner ahead of time okay
1:03:25it wouldn't be the first time you tried
1:03:27to put my lights out and that's exactly
1:03:29what happened
1:03:30here we get a thunderstorm here anyway
1:03:33uh uh where will your your you're well
1:03:36into your five minutes but go with one
1:03:38last question
1:03:41um you uh mr uh trudeau
1:03:44i'm gonna conclude by asking you um
1:03:47you claim that you have no knowledge of
1:03:51the amount that has been paid in
1:03:53expenses to your spouse you correctly
1:03:55pointed out that the act
1:03:57defines family as including a spouse
1:04:00therefore you knew you know you're under
1:04:01investigation uh
1:04:03regarding the act uh i'm gonna ask you
1:04:06again
1:04:06how much in total and i'm looking for a
1:04:10dollar figure here sir
1:04:12how much did your spouse receive
1:04:15in reimbursed expenses or other
1:04:18benefits from this organization how much
1:04:22the original question mr polyam was how
1:04:25much was my immediate family i asked you
1:04:27a different question now
1:04:29mr paliav the prime minister has the
1:04:31floor my wife has
1:04:32never been paid since i was prime
1:04:34minister reimbursed for expenses
1:04:37mr paliev we could could we please have
1:04:39order we'll allow the prime minister to
1:04:42answer the question and then we'll move
1:04:43on to mr zero ms zerowitz
1:04:46uh sorry julie uh mr prime minister you
1:04:49have about 30 seconds here
1:04:51uh the ethics commissioner uh has fully
1:04:54cleared
1:04:55my wife to continue her advocacy and her
1:04:58work
1:04:58uh with we charity and other
1:05:00organizations
1:05:01in uh in uh in the kind of work that
1:05:04she's been doing
1:05:04all her life just the dollar picture
1:05:06doing it unpaid for we she is not being
1:05:09paid
1:05:09uh by weave for her advocacy or for her
1:05:12podcasts
1:05:12they are simply reinforcers or expenses
1:05:15thank you
1:05:16uh thank you mr prime minister and uh mr
1:05:19uh
1:05:19pauliev and i'm sorry for uh leaving the
1:05:23the line uh we'll go to miss zerowitz
1:05:25next and then we'll be followed
1:05:27by uh miss goudreau marie helen and
1:05:30uh then mr angus uh so miss zerowitz
1:05:33five minutes
1:05:35thank you thank you so much oh thank you
1:05:37so much mr chair
1:05:39um and uh you're always calling me
1:05:41mister
1:05:43i know that anyways prime minister i
1:05:45want to say a huge thanks to you for
1:05:46being here today
1:05:47i also want to say a heartfelt thanks on
1:05:50behalf of davenport residents
1:05:52particularly during the early days of
1:05:54the pandemic the daily announcements
1:05:56that you made were lifeline for them
1:05:58both in terms of information and in
1:06:00terms of the support that we were
1:06:01providing
1:06:02they really received the feeling that we
1:06:04had their back and so i want to say a
1:06:06huge thanks to you
1:06:08um the first thing i want to talk about
1:06:10is just about recusing yourself you had
1:06:13indicated that you felt you should have
1:06:14recused yourself because of the
1:06:16perception
1:06:17um i i want to ask a question if you
1:06:19were to recuse yourself from every
1:06:21decision that might indirectly impact
1:06:23your family how would that
1:06:24affect your ability to serve as prime
1:06:26minister and mp for
1:06:30papino
1:06:32you're muted there you go thank you
1:06:34chair uh i think obviously
1:06:35that is that is an important question
1:06:37there are many many things
1:06:39uh i do and we do as a government that
1:06:41impact
1:06:42millions of canadians across the country
1:06:44for example my mother
1:06:46is a long and well-known uh
1:06:48long-standing
1:06:49advocate for mental health issues one of
1:06:51the very first commitments we made to
1:06:53canadians
1:06:54uh was to invest five billion dollars uh
1:06:57into mental health supports across the
1:06:59provinces uh it is possible that
1:07:01i shouldn't have been involved in that
1:07:02decision because uh my mom is
1:07:04a well-known advocate and works in the
1:07:07mental health universe obviously
1:07:09that would be silly it is not a conflict
1:07:12but
1:07:13these kinds of things constantly come up
1:07:15that's why
1:07:16when the issue of we came forward my
1:07:20concern was to push back on it to delay
1:07:23it from going forward the cabinet so
1:07:25that
1:07:25more due diligence could happen uh in
1:07:27that case looking back on it it would
1:07:29have been better had
1:07:30for perception's sake i simply step away
1:07:33and not be involved at all and
1:07:35perhaps the organization and the and the
1:07:37program would be delivered right now
1:07:39uh but uh i uh always look to try and
1:07:42serve canadians the best possible way
1:07:44and
1:07:45around youth programs i have a a level
1:07:48of experience on that that meant that
1:07:50i felt that i was useful in contributing
1:07:53and
1:07:53that none of this program was in any way
1:07:57going to benefit
1:07:58any members of my family and that was
1:08:00something that i was very comfortable
1:08:01with
1:08:02thank you my next question is you've
1:08:04made it clear
1:08:05there were a number of questions around
1:08:06board governance for we and the number
1:08:09of layoffs that had taken place at
1:08:11we charity you'd clearly articulated for
1:08:13canadians and anyone listening
1:08:15uh that the due diligence is the
1:08:17responsibility of us our civil service
1:08:19um i did want to ask though uh as um
1:08:24mr suga sure testified that no one in
1:08:27the public service raised any red flags
1:08:29about the we charities financial
1:08:30well-being
1:08:31so i wanted to just directly ask you did
1:08:33you see or hear
1:08:35any red flags being raised about the we
1:08:37charities finances and the resources
1:08:39and the second part of my question is um
1:08:42you had
1:08:42asked um minister uh chagar to uh
1:08:46to speak with uh the head of treasury
1:08:48board for some additional oversight so
1:08:50if you could sort of
1:08:51talk to both of those because i see a
1:08:52bit of a correlation there um
1:08:54you know obviously there are now uh
1:08:57certain media reporting and and
1:09:00questions about
1:09:01the uh we organizations financial
1:09:03structures and activities
1:09:05um those obviously weren't uh weren't
1:09:08public knowledge and weren't flagged to
1:09:09me at any point during the
1:09:11uh during the uh the may eighth uh
1:09:14conversation or the may
1:09:1621st or 22nd conversation uh in regards
1:09:19to the
1:09:19extra oversight uh i recommended we
1:09:22bring in uh between minister chagar
1:09:24and uh the treasury board that was to
1:09:26design to uh lay out
1:09:28uh the payments to this third party we
1:09:30organization
1:09:31for delivering the program in specific
1:09:34tranches
1:09:34that would uh provide an update before
1:09:37further fun
1:09:38funds were flowed uh once they worked
1:09:41through
1:09:41uh the initial cohorts thank you another
1:09:44question
1:09:44julie thank you so mr morneau had uh
1:09:48mentioned us that over 70 uh emergency
1:09:51programs were introduced
1:09:52with a spend of over two uh 200 billion
1:09:54dollars
1:09:55can you give canadians an idea about
1:09:57what is your involvement in the big
1:09:58policy decisions that come before
1:10:00cabinet
1:10:01um through the month of the months of uh
1:10:04of
1:10:04april and may specifically i was
1:10:08working all day on policy briefs
1:10:12and design for the canada emergency
1:10:14response benefit for the wage subsidy
1:10:17for supports for canadians for uh
1:10:19responding to ppe challenges
1:10:22it was a time of extraordinary activity
1:10:25uh that for the government as the civil
1:10:27service stepped up
1:10:28to deliver things that had never been
1:10:30done before in time frames
1:10:32that would have been unimaginable and as
1:10:34a cabinet
1:10:35and as as as a prime minister we were
1:10:38tremendously active in this time because
1:10:42we knew
1:10:43that canadians were counting on us to be
1:10:45there for them
1:10:46as we asked them to do extremely
1:10:48difficult things to leave their jobs to
1:10:50stay home
1:10:51to hunker down so we could defeat this
1:10:53virus or slow this virus
1:10:54we needed to be there for them and we
1:10:57were deeply
1:10:58involved in every aspect of how we we
1:11:00will
1:11:01have to move on uh prime minister i have
1:11:03uh miss goudreau next uh
1:11:05then mr angus
1:11:08yes good afternoon hello chair i'd like
1:11:11to leave my time to my colleague mr free
1:11:13i'd like to give my time to mr frota
1:11:16before you start uh
1:11:17real uh for the official opposition
1:11:20we will have a slot open and then we
1:11:23will end the day okay mr paulie
1:11:25will be on uh and we'll end with mr
1:11:27fraser uh
1:11:28miss mr forte
1:11:33thank you chair thank you mr chair mr
1:11:36trudeau
1:11:37would it not have simple you announced
1:11:39the program
1:11:43you should have just told people that
1:11:46you about the relationship you had with
1:11:48we charity and your family
1:11:49on april 29th i didn't know
1:11:53that we charity was involved in this i
1:11:55didn't realize that they were involved
1:11:56in this program on may 29th
1:11:58april 29th right the decision hadn't
1:12:01been made yet
1:12:02you didn't announce that you had ties
1:12:04with wii
1:12:06and on april 22nd mr kilburger said
1:12:09there was a call from your office
1:12:11and seems to suggest this mr forte you
1:12:14do not have the correct dates
1:12:17at the end of the line mr trudeau do not
1:12:20feel that you betrayed the trust of
1:12:21quebecers and all canadians
1:12:23by acting in such a manner
1:12:27and acting in what manner
1:12:29[Music]
1:12:32recused yourself and even delayed sorry
1:12:35excuse yourself
1:12:36and even delayed the decision to
1:12:39make the choice of we charity because
1:12:41you know you'd be you knew you'd be
1:12:43subject to scrutiny
1:12:44even though you knew you never
1:12:48recused yourself from the decision table
1:12:51and you knew
1:12:52that when you'd be voting at the cabinet
1:12:56table
1:12:57that this would be an issue quebecers
1:12:59feel betrayed mr trudeau
1:13:01mr forte i was not
1:13:04in a position of conflict of interest
1:13:08and why did you apologize i apologize
1:13:10because of the
1:13:11perception that ties with my family
1:13:15would have been i should have recused
1:13:17myself
1:13:19you're saying that today but you know
1:13:21full well
1:13:23question how come he didn't do so at the
1:13:24beginning
1:13:26mr prime minister of yours knew that
1:13:33we had to rapidly deliver innovative
1:13:36programs to help people
1:13:37who were in a tough situation and that's
1:13:39exactly what we did
1:13:41as i said i didn't know
1:13:54and now you're being blamed for this
1:13:57when
1:13:58will you decide to step aside and ask
1:14:00mister
1:14:02mourinho to step down as finance
1:14:03minister
1:14:06you said that the lobbyist register
1:14:08wasn't your
1:14:09job to look at but answer mr
1:14:13forten since the past four or five
1:14:15months the government
1:14:16and the minister of finance in
1:14:18particular has delivered
1:14:20assistance to millions and millions of
1:14:22canadians
1:14:23who were in a very tough situation
1:14:26the floors
1:14:31we had to make enormous differences for
1:14:33canadians and that's what we were
1:14:35focused on
1:14:36that's very disappointing mr trudeau
1:14:38thank you thank you
1:14:39uh thank you mr prime minister mr
1:14:42forte mr angus uh two and a half
1:14:45minutes and then on to mr polyam mr
1:14:47angus thank you so much mr chair and
1:14:50mr prime minister um
1:14:532017 after you're found guilty uh
1:14:56the iago khan deal you said we're going
1:14:58to work with the office of the ethics
1:14:59commissioner in the new year to ensure
1:15:01that as we go forward in full and
1:15:02complete compliance with the rules and
1:15:04the rules in place
1:15:05you tell us that you held this project
1:15:08back
1:15:09you did the due diligence you were aware
1:15:11that there were perceptions
1:15:13uh that might be problematic we're not
1:15:15talking about
1:15:16perceptions we're talking about breaches
1:15:18of the law
1:15:19in your due diligence why did you not
1:15:22bother
1:15:23to talk to the conflict of interest
1:15:25commissioner it is so obvious
1:15:27mr trudeau that these conflicts were
1:15:30there
1:15:30why did you think it didn't apply to you
1:15:33mr prime minister
1:15:34mr angus the public service came forward
1:15:38with a recommendation a two cabinet
1:15:41to move forward either with this
1:15:44specific
1:15:45uh third-party provider that was we
1:15:47charity or else
1:15:48not move forward with the program at all
1:15:51that was the binary choice
1:15:53choice we proposed i did not influence
1:15:56the public service to choose this
1:15:57organization
1:15:58and indeed when the public service came
1:16:00forward with this organization
1:16:01i said you know what let's put the
1:16:03brakes on it let's
1:16:04make sure that it's done absolutely
1:16:07everything right because
1:16:08uh there are going to be questions
1:16:10because of the connections with my
1:16:12family on this
1:16:13yes in hindsight i should have recused
1:16:15myself and
1:16:16perhaps that organi the program would be
1:16:19delivering for students right across the
1:16:20country right now
1:16:21uh but well i did not instead i put the
1:16:24brakes on it and said
1:16:25let's make sure that it is doing things
1:16:27the right way
1:16:28so that we don't have any communications
1:16:31back to mr angus
1:16:32i guess with all due respect instead of
1:16:34continually throwing the civil service
1:16:36under the bus i'm actually asking about
1:16:37your judgment about your legal
1:16:39obligations
1:16:40because the real losers here are the
1:16:42young people statistics
1:16:43canada says that it's going to take five
1:16:46to seven years for them to recover from
1:16:47the damage
1:16:48and we had students asking why they were
1:16:50being denied served
1:16:51uh asking why uh you were telling them
1:16:54that volunteerism is gonna be great they
1:16:55can work for less than minimum wage
1:16:57you know for students who have massive
1:16:59levels of student debt they don't got 41
1:17:01000
1:17:02checks to cover up their losses they
1:17:04were looking to you as their champion
1:17:06and i'm really concerned mr prime
1:17:08minister that you think this
1:17:10issue of paying students university
1:17:12students fair wage is somehow an attack
1:17:15on volunteerism to be the champion of
1:17:17youth isn't to do a high five with craig
1:17:19kilberger
1:17:20mr uh angus your question please sure
1:17:23because none of the money got out
1:17:25not a dime these two still waiting you
1:17:28failed them
1:17:29mr prime minister uh i'm happy to
1:17:32correct mr angus the canada emergency
1:17:34student benefit
1:17:35since may 6 15 has given
1:17:39to 724 000 applicants a total value of
1:17:432.1
1:17:44billion dollars directly for students
1:17:46that's part of the nine
1:17:47billion dollar package the the student
1:17:49serb has made a huge difference
1:17:51the summer jobs we've created the
1:17:53deferral of student loans
1:17:55yes i regret that
1:17:59to recognize volunteerism that young
1:18:02people are doing right across the
1:18:03country
1:18:04that is a piece of it that is
1:18:05disappointing and that i regret and i
1:18:06apologize for
1:18:07but uh the ensemble of things that we've
1:18:10done to help students across this
1:18:12country in this historic pandemic
1:18:14has made a real difference in the lives
1:18:16of students and in communities across
1:18:18this country that are seeing
1:18:20young people step up and contribute
1:18:22we've had equal time prime minister
1:18:23we'll have to move
1:18:28the concluding questions will go to uh
1:18:30mr fraser you have five minutes uh
1:18:32uh mr pauly evan please don't shut my
1:18:35lights out this time with you
1:18:37go ahead here yes don't shut your own
1:18:38out either
1:18:40you claimed that the program's purposes
1:18:42were threefold
1:18:43help youth through the pandemic help
1:18:45charities get through the pandemic and
1:18:47help
1:18:48students pay for their post-secondary in
1:18:49the fall which of these
1:18:51could the canada summer jobs program not
1:18:54have done
1:18:55um actually the aim of the three aims
1:18:58that i listed for the
1:18:59cssg were encourage young people to step
1:19:03up help out community organizations and
1:19:06recognize volunteerism and reward
1:19:09volunteerism
1:19:10uh by students as a way of making a
1:19:12difference in this pandemic
1:19:13activist so you can't name a single one
1:19:16of these objectives that could not have
1:19:18been fulfilled
1:19:19by the canada by the canada summer jobs
1:19:21program
1:19:22so yeah so recognizing volunteerism
1:19:26is not done by the candidates
1:19:28recognizing paid
1:19:29volunteerism so you called it
1:19:32volunteerism so that you could get you
1:19:33could take it outside of the canada
1:19:35summer jobs program and give the pro
1:19:37give it to your friends
1:19:38at we my next question uh when you
1:19:41directed
1:19:42when you directed it
1:19:45mr paliav the prime minister's got about
1:19:47eight seconds to answer that one then
1:19:49we'll go to your
1:19:50question uh the cssg
1:19:53was about recognizing and rewarding
1:19:55volunteerism it's not about jobs
1:19:58it was about volunteerism and that
1:19:59unfortunately is something that we can't
1:20:02do yes
1:20:04you just misused the words so that you
1:20:05could justify outsourcing
1:20:07a program that already effectively exist
1:20:09within the government now when you did
1:20:11that you directed a half a billion
1:20:13dollars
1:20:13and yes you did you were you're the head
1:20:15of the cabinet did you know that the
1:20:17group to which you were directing that
1:20:19half billion dollars was in violation of
1:20:22its bank covenant yes or no
1:20:25um that is that is not something that we
1:20:28had as information
1:20:30at that point did you know that the
1:20:32government money would go into a real
1:20:34estate
1:20:34shell foundation instead of into the we
1:20:37charity yes or no
1:20:38the details on the payment were worked
1:20:40out by our professional public service
1:20:42in terms of uh how the contribution
1:20:44agreement flowed so
1:20:46you did you know that the chair of the
1:20:47board had resigned yes or no
1:20:49no so you did not clearly did not do any
1:20:53due diligence of your own as the chair
1:20:55of the cabinet responsible for approving
1:20:58a decision you should have had some
1:21:00basic facts
1:21:01sir you were using a half a billion
1:21:04dollars of taxpayers money here you had
1:21:06a fiduciary
1:21:07responsibility why didn't you ask these
1:21:10questions
1:21:11mr president uh tens of billions of
1:21:15dollars
1:21:15through the serb to the right uh
1:21:18benefit through various ways uh to help
1:21:21canadians and we were very
1:21:22very active in making sure that flows
1:21:24right there are
1:21:25many many different programs and in
1:21:27cabinet government we
1:21:28trust the ministers and the public
1:21:30service to do their jobs
1:21:32and make sure that things are delivered
1:21:34in the right way and in this case
1:21:40chair the prime minister needs to stop
1:21:42blaming civil servants it was his
1:21:44decision
1:21:44hold on you're gonna have to switch to
1:21:46your french channel because i can't make
1:21:48you
1:21:48i'm hearing two languages at once
1:21:54it's time for the prime minister to stop
1:21:57blaming the public service
1:22:00an elected official who is responsible
1:22:04toward canadians and he needs to ensure
1:22:06that money is spent properly
1:22:08it's not up to public servants
1:22:11who are forced to spend nearly half a
1:22:14billion dollars
1:22:16to a group that paid his family nearly
1:22:19half a million dollars
1:22:22is the prime will the prime minister
1:22:24take personal responsibility
1:22:26for approving this enormous amount
1:22:29which was given out to his friends first
1:22:32of all i'd like to think
1:22:33some make something clear i have nothing
1:22:35but admiration
1:22:37and respect and deep gratitude for
1:22:40the public service which is professional
1:22:43and
1:22:43has been able to deliver extraordinary
1:22:46programs during this pandemic
1:22:48to help millions of canadians it has had
1:22:50a real impact
1:22:52on the work that they're doing and it
1:22:54continues to do this work
1:22:55their excellence
1:22:58was applied to programs for youth and i
1:23:01have confidence
1:23:03that they made the right recommendation
1:23:05to deliver this program
1:23:06in the best way possible and
1:23:08unfortunately in part because
1:23:10i did not recuse myself there was a
1:23:13perception
1:23:14that led to not being able to deliver
1:23:17this specific program
1:23:18but the suite of programs that we
1:23:21deliver to canadians
1:23:22i have a simple question for you i have
1:23:25a simple question for you
1:23:29how many times did a minister
1:23:43take it very seriously every time there
1:23:45are ethics issues how many times
1:23:47and how many times
1:23:51the prime minister has the floor
1:23:54and he has the right to answer
1:23:58mr prime minister uh we will
1:24:02always take seriously how many times uh
1:24:04breaches of uh of uh
1:24:06official codes uh we will ensure that
1:24:08there are consequences and we will look
1:24:10at every
1:24:11situation differently fine in english
1:24:12i'll ask my last question
1:24:14my last question
1:24:18last night you people were giving me the
1:24:21gears for
1:24:22not sticking in a deering to time i'm a
1:24:24deering to time today
1:24:25mr fraser you the last round five
1:24:27minutes and then the prime minister will
1:24:29be released
1:24:30uh thank you very much mr chair thank
1:24:32you prime minister before i begin i do
1:24:34want to express my gratitude for your
1:24:35assistance in securing a public inquiry
1:24:37into the mass shootings that took place
1:24:39in my home province of nova scotia
1:24:40it means to the world to the world to us
1:24:42at home uh to the matter at hand
1:24:44you've acknowledged uh during this
1:24:46meeting and previously that you should
1:24:47have recused yourself from the decision
1:24:48i appreciate your willingness to admit
1:24:50that
1:24:50you've also mentioned when it first came
1:24:52up with cabinet you push back i've got
1:24:53competing concepts of a need to conduct
1:24:55due diligence
1:24:56and at the same time to have recused
1:24:58yourself of course you remain
1:25:00responsible for the oversight of the
1:25:01policy direction and program
1:25:03implementation of the government of
1:25:04canada
1:25:05and though i believe you were right to
1:25:06say you probably should have recused
1:25:08yourself from that conversation
1:25:09i have difficulty how you would have
1:25:10simultaneously exercised the kind of
1:25:13oversight that caused you to push back
1:25:14during that may 8th meeting
1:25:16had you recused yourself how would this
1:25:18additional oversight had taken place
1:25:20if you had not been involved in the
1:25:21process of the discussion at the cabinet
1:25:23table
1:25:24that is an an excellent question uh the
1:25:27quick answer is
1:25:28uh that uh other members of cabinet
1:25:31would have stepped up and ensured
1:25:32proper oversight but you do uh highlight
1:25:35one of the challenges of
1:25:36making policy in as condensed a fashion
1:25:39as we have during this pandemic we have
1:25:42been flowing
1:25:43aid to canadians to different groups
1:25:45filling gaps
1:25:47across the country with innovative
1:25:49partnerships with creative ways of
1:25:51approaching things because we needed to
1:25:53be there for canadians
1:25:54so yes things were truncated things were
1:25:57shortened
1:25:58programs that would have taken six
1:25:59months to develop and deliver
1:26:01uh were instead done in the matter of
1:26:03weeks so it was a particularly
1:26:05challenging situation and
1:26:07if you'll allow me mr fraser let me uh
1:26:09also say
1:26:10thank you to you and to your fellow nova
1:26:12scotia mps
1:26:13uh for being so uh strong in your
1:26:15advocacy to make sure
1:26:17uh that the answers get given to those
1:26:19families uh your
1:26:20your leadership on this has been uh both
1:26:22personally and professionally
1:26:24uh appreciated thank you very much
1:26:28so the the process that we've uh learned
1:26:30today that there was a a public service
1:26:32recommendation we learned two days ago
1:26:33when the kielburgers were at committee
1:26:36that the public service actually
1:26:37recommended that they adopt a new uh
1:26:41foundation essentially uh or at least
1:26:43approved a new foundation to have the
1:26:45flow through money to
1:26:46make sure that the wheat charity was
1:26:48willing to accept liability they said
1:26:49only a third party can do it
1:26:51i understand to your point about other
1:26:53members of cabinet providing that
1:26:54oversight that it would have gone to
1:26:55cabinet committee before
1:26:57it came to uh full cabinet made where
1:26:59you still pushed back
1:27:01uh so i'm curious it sounded like your
1:27:03your reservation was about the
1:27:05possibility that there might be a
1:27:06perception
1:27:07that your family uh or or people close
1:27:10to you would have directly or indirectly
1:27:11benefited
1:27:12were you satisfied when it came back to
1:27:14cabinet uh when this was finally
1:27:16approved
1:27:17that there was no possibility that your
1:27:18family directly or indirectly was
1:27:20actually going to benefit from the
1:27:21canada's student service grant program
1:27:24yes there is no way that my uh family
1:27:27would have benefited from these general
1:27:29questions across the country
1:27:31um okay uh thank you prime minister so
1:27:34back to the the matter at hand i i gotta
1:27:36say i was a former youth leader i
1:27:39took part in different programs the
1:27:41canada summer jobs program
1:27:42student government and the like uh it
1:27:44hugely shaped
1:27:45who i am i want to build on mr mcleod's
1:27:48uh line of questioning
1:27:49where do we go from here uh i actually
1:27:51still very much support the values that
1:27:53you outline behind the student service
1:27:55grant program
1:27:56i understand there's going to be
1:27:57difficulties uh over the course of uh
1:27:59this summer implementing something that
1:28:01will provide that kind of opportunity
1:28:03uh what's the next step how do we
1:28:05actually get this program or some other
1:28:06support on the rail
1:28:08rails to actually provide the kind of
1:28:09support to students that you
1:28:11have clearly communicated as being
1:28:12important to this government and your
1:28:14answer will have to wrap it up prime
1:28:16minister
1:28:16first of all throughout this pandemic
1:28:18we've had to
1:28:19deliver certain things and suspend other
1:28:22things our priority has been on helping
1:28:24people through this pandemic and that
1:28:26really needed to be our priority
1:28:28particularly for students
1:28:30uh which is why we put out the students
1:28:31serb which is why
1:28:33uh we've created new jobs which is why
1:28:35we're giving
1:28:36we're deferring student loans um this
1:28:39was an additional way for young people
1:28:40to be involved to volunteer to reward
1:28:43volunteerism
1:28:44for young people throughout the country
1:28:46and it is still a goal of this
1:28:48this government that's why we created
1:28:49the canada service corps a number of
1:28:51years ago
1:28:52youth volunteerism actually is one of
1:28:54the things that brought me into politics
1:28:56a dozen years ago because i was working
1:28:58with katimavik and realized that we
1:29:00needed to do more
1:29:01youth volunteerism and use service in
1:29:03this country so it will continue
1:29:05to be a goal of mine and something that
1:29:08really is important for the country to
1:29:10see young people stepping up in their
1:29:11communities
1:29:12helping out uh people who need help
1:29:14discovering the value of service and
1:29:16becoming engaged active citizens
1:29:19uh in their communities in their country
1:29:20for the rest of their lives
1:29:22this was an opportunity to fit it into a
1:29:24coveted context
1:29:25uh but even as kovit continues and even
1:29:28beyond covet
1:29:29getting young people to serve in their
1:29:30communities will always remain
1:29:32a goal for this government okay uh with
1:29:36that uh
1:29:37uh on behalf of the committee we've been
1:29:39bringing you extended live coverage of
1:29:41prime minister justin trudeau
1:29:43under fire over his involvement in this
1:29:45scandal involving the we charity
1:29:47trudeau being hammered by the
1:29:49conservatives and the ndp attacking him
1:29:51over the ties between his family and the
1:29:53charity
1:29:53and why we was chosen to run a massive
1:29:56student

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