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PPC in 2025: What to Stop, Start & Double Down On | PPC TH 106 — Transcript

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0:00hello and welcome to another episode of
0:02PPC Town Hall my name is Fred vales I'm
0:04your host I'm also CEO and co-founder at
0:07Optimizer of bpc management software for
0:11today's episode we're going to look at
0:142025 and it being a new year what are
0:17some of the things that PPC
0:18practitioners are going to stop doing
0:20start doing and doubling down on so
0:23let's talk about strategies that we
0:25think have run their course the new
0:27strategies that we're excited that are
0:29going to drive results in the year going
0:30forward and to talk about all of this
0:32we've got two great PPC experts who are
0:35going to share with us what they think
0:37in terms of uh starting stopping and
0:39doubling down so with that let's get
0:41rolling with this episode of PBC Town
0:48Hall all right and I have two great
0:50guests today Andrew lul and Julie
0:53bachini Friedman welcome back to the
0:55show you've been on the show multiple
0:57times it's great to see you again Julie
1:00let's go to you first uh tell us how
1:01you've been and what's new at you oh
1:04thank you for having me I always love
1:05coming on here and sharing my thoughts
1:07about what's going on in the world of
1:09PPC uh things are good I think 2025 is
1:12going to be uh I'm gonna say interesting
1:14year that's going to be my kind of is
1:17like a catch catchall for all the things
1:18that may or may not happen in this year
1:20so uh lots to look forward to and pay
1:23attention to great and Andrew uh welcome
1:26back as well what's new with
1:28you I think the there's I think the
1:30biggest thing is is uh I feel like I had
1:33a I had a New Year's resolution to fight
1:35Less on on LinkedIn and I decided to
1:38pick a fight with everybody in the first
1:39two weeks of being back from vacation so
1:41that's just interesting so that's just
1:43that's good nothing changes uh so I
1:45believe everything will be the same in
1:472025 we'll all fight about the same
1:49thing so it'll be
1:51interesting we will but when it comes to
1:53PPC I think maybe there are a few things
1:56that we can all agree on we might have
1:58to stop doing so format that we want to
2:01go we're going to go with today for the
2:02listeners we're going to talk about what
2:04people will stop stop doing start doing
2:08and what we're going to double down on
2:09so let's go with that first category is
2:11there anything you think we should no
2:13longer be doing in
2:16PPC I'll let I'll let Julie go first oh
2:19you let me go first okay um I mean I
2:21feel like there's some OB there's some
2:22obvious things um certainly if you're
2:25still doing and and I I can't believe
2:27that I'm going to say this in the year
2:282025 but somebody just messaged me about
2:31this like last week so I'm going to go
2:32ahead and say it um the single keyword
2:36ad group It's Time Has Come and gone
2:41people gonna go there no more Stags no I
2:45mean listen I let me let me preface
2:47everything I'm going to say today with
2:49you may have something that's working
2:51fabulously for you and I am not going to
2:53suggest that you blow something up
2:55that's working for you right now I mean
2:56I think that's an important sort of
2:58disclaimer that we talk about here
2:59sometimes you have a legacy thing that
3:01is working in a particular account you
3:03don't have to blow it up you know you
3:05need to be ready if it's stops
3:08performing in the way that it has for
3:10you with like what are you going to do
3:11next but I would say if we're planning
3:14on what we're doing in our our current
3:16accounts and any accounts we might be
3:17taking on in 2025 Scaggs would be at the
3:20top of my list of things that need to
3:22just not happen anymore okay so that
3:25that's one and so that makes sense then
3:27for new accounts you probably wouldn't
3:29introduce to gag before existing
3:31accounts where it's working you might
3:32phase it out over time um now that's
3:36really talking about account structure
3:37right single keyword ad groups is there
3:40something that might replace that and
3:42are we talking here about Stags and
3:44single themed ad groups or what's kind
3:46of the replacement in your uh opinion so
3:50I feel like the platforms are trying to
3:53get us to me broader and broader and
3:54broader and broader in everything that
3:55we're doing um I
3:59prefer to try to even if it's just for
4:02my own thought processes and managing
4:04things sometimes for Budget allocations
4:06I I'm a fan of the the Stag you know the
4:09single The Single theme trying to sort
4:11of keep things a little bit separated
4:13out so you have more flexibility in the
4:16language that you're using in your ad
4:18copy you could be sending to different
4:20landing pages depending on how
4:22sophisticated you are in on that side of
4:25things so for me the way that I like to
4:27manage things is to definitely keep
4:29things themed
4:30so that you don't have everything just
4:32you know crushed together in one you
4:34know in one giant one giant
4:36campaign that makes
4:38sense Andrew any thoughts on structure
4:41or what's one of your top things you
4:43will stop
4:44doing I I'll I'll I'll just Echo I agree
4:48on on on the single keyword at groups um
4:52also just in general I think one thing
4:54to to to just piig back off there is one
4:56of my one of the big things for us is is
4:59negative ke wordss the more you work
5:01with smart bidding and again this is has
5:02to do with certain big parts of the
5:04market again if if you're selling sex
5:06stories if you're selling posters if
5:08you're selling certain things then you
5:10need to still utilize a heavy negative
5:12keyword list but we just see in like 80
5:1490% of cases actually deleting all
5:17negative keywords uh when we take over
5:19accounts from other agencies or inhouse
5:21just blows everything out the water we
5:23have a we have a case where if you if
5:25you open up the slides I sent you we
5:27have one case where we actually were a
5:29ble to take uh and remove all um remove
5:34all negative keywords and what we saw
5:36was yes we saw an increase in in CPC
5:38that's fine but we also saw a 6X or five
5:41and a half X increase in in Revenue uh
5:44simply by doing that this was an an
5:46account where the the previous agenc had
5:48overly focused on negative keywords and
5:50tried to do like this control where
5:53every single keyword that they had added
5:55as a normal keyword in the account got
5:57add as a negative in the dynamic search
5:59as campaign simply just really trying to
6:01sculpt the account and they had also
6:03done it between campaigns and search
6:06which for me all this excessive control
6:09to try to say this actual search term
6:11have to show in this particular act
6:13group because we have single keyword act
6:14groups that kind of control is just mute
6:17these days you can't control it phrase
6:20match and close close variant matching
6:22is just killing any attempt to do it and
6:25as you try to do it you're much more
6:26likely to make a mistake and to like and
6:30and exclude things too broadly so I'd
6:33say like no more no more single keyword
6:35act groups yes if you're selling
6:37mattresses you're GNA have to keyword
6:39mattress in one act group so you can
6:41follow it along great but as an overall
6:43account strategy doesn't work anymore
6:45and an overly use of negative keywords
6:49to try to control things the smart Bing
6:51should actually have under control uh
6:53it's just something to put thoughts
6:56into right and that's interesting
6:58because I think the matching mechanism
7:00that Google employs has become more
7:02sophisticated obviously as machine
7:04learning and artificial intelligence has
7:05gotten better so kind of doing a reset
7:08there on negative keywords makes a lot
7:10of sense and but I think we're certainly
7:12not saying don't use negative keywords
7:14it's more like let's do a reset let's
7:16see what Google is actually matching us
7:18to where maybe it still doesn't make
7:20sense um and that's what should be
7:22excluded as a negative but but many of
7:23those other situations where maybe
7:25something had to be a negative because
7:27we were spending too much money on it
7:29because because bid automation wasn't
7:31quite as sophisticated that's where we
7:33were producing losses but now that
7:35bidding is better maybe it's okay for
7:37somebody these negatives to still
7:38trigger ads yeah because the way to look
7:41at is like a negative is a black and
7:43white is an off and on a situation where
7:45smart bidding should have the
7:47opportunity to increase and decrease
7:49bids for search term or product or yeah
7:52the search term with negative keywords
7:54based on again device audiences
7:56targeting and also like it comes into
7:58seasonality too if we're selling
8:00swimwear then maybe
8:03uh like swim uh swim trunks with legs
8:06inside or like a long long ta keyword
8:09that doesn't do anything in September
8:11it's going to be amazing in May and June
8:13and as you will we just see thing people
8:15are just overusing NE negative keywords
8:17and and the examples here is really like
8:20if you have a lot of data in your
8:21account if you're working with in
8:24e-commerce or within a broad spectrum of
8:26Legion then negative keywords is mostly
8:29in accounts overused again if you're a
8:31lawyer within a very particular Niche
8:34you have to use negative Keers like
8:35crazy but 80% of accounts we see today
8:37are just way over utilizing negatives
8:41yeah so the tip there is use negative
8:43keywords to make those black and white
8:45decisions where it's absolutely clear
8:46that something has absolutely no chance
8:49of being relevant to you but don't use
8:51it if we're talking about managing bids
8:53on the Spectrum where something could be
8:55relevant seasonally or um like I've
8:58always said there's no such thing as a
9:00bad keyword there's only such a thing as
9:01a bad bid right um now so sometimes you
9:05can bid low enough to make it still
9:06worthwhile and in that case you do use
9:08those negatives um but that's sort of
9:10the idea here Julie what's your take on
9:12negative keywords um I I agree that you
9:17don't want to overuse them you don't
9:19want to I think one of the things that
9:21we're going to have to do here in 2025
9:23is find that uh sweet spot that balance
9:27for each account that we work on
9:30between not letting the machine learning
9:33and the smart bidding sort of go off on
9:36tangents that we don't really want them
9:38to go on that we know is a tangent and
9:40it's just going to waste money right so
9:42I think it's it's finding that balance
9:44between trying to stop that from
9:47happening
9:49without completely cutting off any
9:53opportunity that the system might be
9:55able to find for you and I think it's a
9:57bit of a balancing act between
9:59especially for budget conscious uh
10:02advertisers too right if you have a lot
10:04of budget and you have a lot of Runway
10:06to let the the
10:08algorithms do their thing you have a lot
10:11more play I think in what you can do on
10:13the negative keyword front if you're
10:15more budget limited if your um
10:18conversions take longer you might have
10:20to be a little tighter in your strategy
10:22with like what you're what you're
10:24eliminating and what you're choosing to
10:26experiment with so I think it's a little
10:27bit dependent on sort of what the
10:28parameters are around your account
10:31around your spend around your
10:33volume yeah and one thing I heard you
10:35say there had to do with almost
10:38attribution models you didn't say it
10:39directly but basically where the values
10:42coming from so are there any attribution
10:43models that we think are sort of a toast
10:46by now and should no longer ever be
10:50used Andrew I'll start with you on that
10:52one oh I haven't talked about
10:54distribution models in a long time um I
10:57just don't believe in it generally like
10:59none of them I don't believe any in any
11:01of it anymore don't like my like last
11:04click is absolutely dead it should never
11:06be like it for anybody outside of the
11:08the baby stage of an account should
11:10never be touched um but even then Google
11:14will in their own DDA or first and last
11:18it will still accredit 50% of the
11:20attribution to the Brin term so that
11:23just shows me it's the the waiting is
11:25completely wrong no matter how you look
11:27at it um it's so I don't trust any of it
11:30but last click is 100% wrong first click
11:33doesn't work either so the closest thing
11:34we've gotten now is that DDA model that
11:37just it is what it is we can't do much
11:40about it anymore uh so it's just within
11:42a Google ads account it's actually not a
11:44conversation we have anymore uh but we
11:47definitely don't touch last
11:49click Julie where do you staying on
11:51attribution models I mean if we're being
11:54honest attribution has always been a
11:57little bit of fairy dust and wishes
11:59as opposed to really hard data right and
12:02it's it's even more so now I think with
12:05less data being being available you know
12:07with privacy and consent mode and all
12:09these different things that are
12:11happening there's less data available
12:13for the platforms to work with right and
12:16so getting more comfortable with the
12:18fact that um things are
12:21modeled uh that's something that we're
12:23all going to have to really like wrap
12:24our heads around I think you know
12:26heading into to if you haven't already
12:28heading into into 2025
12:31because even though attribution You
12:33could argue was never that precise or
12:36great we as an
12:38industry talked about it that way we
12:41sold it that way right that like we have
12:44this this really strong attribution this
12:45is why you should do digital versus
12:47doing other types of advertising and I
12:49think that's coming Unwound a bit here
12:52as we move from 2024 into 2025 so I
12:55think that
12:56um talking about the attribution
13:00as like a a waiting factor or
13:03contributing factor versus some kind of
13:05absolute piece of data I think is also
13:07something we're going to like change the
13:09way that we talk about these things with
13:12our clients with our you know with our
13:13stakeholders just because of the nature
13:15of how it works
13:16now and that's a really interesting
13:19point because I think there's two uh two
13:21Dimensions to this one of them is what
13:23do we report to stakeholders and
13:25clients and you're right it's fairy dust
13:28right so
13:29in that attribution model is that really
13:31the amount of Revenue that we produced
13:33well well no that's just how we
13:34attributed and there's going to be
13:36double counting there's going to be
13:37under counting and that's from the
13:39reporting perspective so there you have
13:41to be really careful but then the other
13:43dimension of it is that these
13:45attribution models they are using the
13:47machine learning systems that also do
13:49the bidding so if you're going to trust
13:51your bidding to these systems it
13:52probably make sense to have a very
13:54similarly run system that assigns value
13:58and helps decide where the bids should
14:00be so so pick the fairy dust that moves
14:03you directionally the where you want to
14:05go and then titles two together right so
14:09um
14:12yes good so um let's go on to the next
14:15one is there anything else we're going
14:16to stop doing in
14:192025 so so so one thing that that we see
14:22that I've seen a lot through 24 23 I
14:26still see people jump on a lot is uh
14:29I'll take it twofold I'll say feed only
14:32performance Max campaigns uh I've been
14:34the biggest uh spokesperson to if you
14:37want to run pmax you should do feed only
14:39because delving into display and video
14:41at the same time search and shopping is
14:43a horrible idea I still stand by that
14:45it's just today I don't see a reason why
14:48you would run a feed only performance
14:49Max campaign over a standard shoing
14:51campaign uh so I just I don't I don't
14:53see the need to do that anymore and
14:55alongside that the uh splitting up if
15:00you are running pmax and you are running
15:02pmax feed only which means you're only
15:05focusing on the shopping app component
15:07of pmax for goodness sake stop splitting
15:10up your campaigns there is no data
15:12sharing between the two the conversions
15:14are not shared you cannot do shared
15:16budgets you cannot combine consolidate
15:18the data in a bidding strategy every
15:21single time you split up a pmax campaign
15:24that individual pmax campaign needs to
15:26hit as the certain volume of convs for
15:29it to be effective and again that is 30
15:3230 conversions a month yeah that's where
15:34it enables Target Ras or something like
15:37that that doesn't mean it's effective at
15:3930 conversions a month it it needs 300
15:42to be somewhat effective it needs 3,000
15:44to be excellent at what it does and I'm
15:48exaggerating a little bit here but the
15:50whole idea with splitting up your
15:52products into and categories into
15:54several pmax campaigns is just it's a
15:57horrible idea it never works uh and
16:01consolidation is such an important
16:03factor for pmax these days and it's just
16:05the algorithms that you're just shooting
16:08yourself in the foot so if anybody's
16:09doing that I know Julie said you
16:11shouldn't blow your accounts up but
16:12that's the one thing I would say for
16:14goodness sake blow your accounts up uh
16:16if if you're doing that today if you're
16:17not having different RW targets per
16:19category then there's no need to have a
16:21different campaign that's basically okay
16:23so you just said if you do have
16:25different row as targets then maybe you
16:27should have different pmax campaigns but
16:29then you're still making the point that
16:30you're splitting your data and just
16:32making it harder for the system to reach
16:34its goals if you if you if if if you're
16:37selling shoes and you're selling jeans
16:39and your jeans can run at 500% and your
16:41shoes can run at 300% Target row be my
16:44guess split it up that's the right way
16:45to do it because you're splitting it up
16:47you're using the the target rowers lever
16:50to Target different levels and maximize
16:53Revenue within each category best
16:55pratice beautiful scenario 80% of time I
16:59open up something it is the same Target
17:01RWS or it is 700 and one has 725 and the
17:04other one has 715 and it doesn't make a
17:07difference
17:09whatsoever now now you within that you
17:12were saying that you are still a fan of
17:16shopping campaigns uh versus a pmax for
17:19feeds only so what are some of the
17:22benefits you see there and why do you
17:23still like using those shopping
17:25campaigns so it's actually one of my
17:27double one of our Double Downs this year
17:29is to double down on standard shopping
17:31uh so there's a couple things one is the
17:36the knowledge that we only uh we're only
17:38buying shopping ads clicks we're not
17:40once we're decreasing the rows Target or
17:42increasing the budget we're not sending
17:44a signal to Google to say try to go into
17:46display try to go into video try to go
17:48into search we're only saying maximize
17:51shopping because what what we do in
17:53Savvy is we we usually take over
17:54accounts where the goal isn't to get us
17:57some Revenue through Google ads our our
17:59goal is to maximize Google ads as a
18:01channel and by doing that we need to
18:03find out where is diminishing return on
18:04shopping where is it on search where
18:07where is where do we have to start going
18:08to YouTube display we never touch um
18:11it's a bad idea but on the shopping ad
18:14we know exactly what we're getting so if
18:15we're lower from 300% rows to 250 then
18:18we can we know exactly what we're
18:20getting more more and more we know what
18:22that incremental extra value is we're
18:24getting out of shopping ads and that's
18:25just a component that's a lot harder to
18:27control with pmax um so the knowledge
18:31we're only getting shopping as clicks is
18:32really the biggest part that you have
18:34can create different campaigns you can
18:36create structures where you move
18:38products from one campaign to another
18:39use bid portfolios set different targets
18:43have access to minimum and maximum uh
18:45bids and stuff like that it just means
18:46we have different components we can use
18:49or levers to pull throughout the year
18:52and we don't just sit and wait for
18:54certain things to happen uh it it's
18:56really it's one of our core core leaves
18:59is is things that you can proactively do
19:02and help smarting smart bidding with you
19:04should do that's that's the only way to
19:06really scale an account Beyond just
19:08grabbing what smart bidding will give
19:09you off out of the box makes sense Julie
19:14what's your take on bmax and campaign
19:18structures uh well I don't do Ecom so
19:21shopping is not something that's in my
19:23wheelhouse whatsoever um performance Max
19:27on the leg gen side
19:29can be a little bit of a tricky tricky
19:32situation right because for a lot of
19:35Leen the that threshold that Andrew was
19:39talking about with conversions really
19:41comes into play right so I think lead
19:44gen accounts
19:46feel the um they don't get to a point
19:50where the machine learning and the smart
19:53bidding really hits that level of
19:55efficiency that it's able to do on like
19:57a high volume Ecom
19:59account and so we find ourselves trying
20:03to figure out like how how to take
20:06advantage of the things that will work
20:08when you're below some of those
20:10thresholds where things really get
20:11humming right how do you figure out
20:13which one of those things might work for
20:15you what you want to test and which
20:16things are just going to kind of like I
20:19feel like sometimes they just get stuck
20:21like just like running laps right like
20:23it never really takes off um if you
20:27don't have that level of data flowing
20:30flowing in and there's some things that
20:31you can do that can kind of help that
20:34you know if you're in an account that
20:36has the lower you know at the lower
20:37conversions you can use things like
20:40portfolio bidding strategies which
20:42allows more of your data to be pulled I
20:45think we're that's a bit of a theme we
20:46have going on here today too right how
20:48can you pull more of your data to be
20:50able to Pro to provide it to the
20:52platform so it can best utilize it as
20:56opposed to having all these little
20:57pieces where
21:00it's kind of looking at everything
21:01because it does that but you're not
21:03setting it up in a way that it makes it
21:05easy for the system to be able to sort
21:08of make some of those connections to be
21:10able to maybe get you some better some
21:11better performance so I think that's a
21:14place where if you're not at that high
21:18threshold where things are just going to
21:20kick into high
21:21gear how can you utilize the pieces how
21:24can you put it together and try to
21:27almost simulate
21:30as close to that situation you know as
21:31you can get with the totality of the
21:33volume of what you're what you're doing
21:35makes
21:36sense um do either of you still have
21:39things you want to talk about as far as
21:41stopping or should we move on to what
21:43will you start doing let's go to let's
21:46go to start let's go to start Let's uh
21:49we' told people what not to do it let's
21:51tell people what to do
21:54okay okay it's time to take a look at
21:56some of the things people should be
21:57doing instead of stopping so um what are
22:01you going to start Andrew let's go back
22:03to you on this one
22:04first so one thing that I think is is
22:08key is is search uh and this is this is
22:11really much from from an e-commerce
22:13angle almost every single e-commerce
22:16Advertiser out there is is is like 8020
22:19on on shopping versus search and in some
22:22industries that makes sense it's it's
22:24fine but in a lot of industries that
22:26means that we're just you're not
22:28utilizing search enough and that means
22:31that you're you're either just relying
22:33on Dynamic search ads especially if you
22:34have a multibrand store where you have a
22:36lot of products thousands and thousands
22:38of products uh we I I still see people
22:41just focusing on on Dynamic search as as
22:43a main campaign for search and the more
22:47and more we've worked on search last
22:49year the more and more we just see
22:52spending some effort on search uh really
22:55really works again if we go back to the
22:56swimmer example if if you're running a
22:59dynamic search ad campaign you and
23:01you're trying to compare year-over-year
23:02where is my swimware keyword yes if you
23:06you going through some Search terms or
23:07pull some reports you can kind of see it
23:09but if you want to push your swimware
23:12keyword before a peak season or during a
23:14peak season or you want to control it
23:17with the weather is super nice now so
23:20now we should will get a bike so let bit
23:22higher and all these things you can
23:23actually do you can't touch it if it's
23:26within damic search as you can't change
23:28the head lines hopefully generative uh
23:31generative uh AI will will help with
23:34some of that I still don't think it will
23:35be really really good for a long time
23:38but managing headlines controlling and
23:40monitoring where is your Search keywords
23:42in terms of the impression share year
23:44over year and then being able to have
23:46some levers to push up and push down it
23:48just it's not enough just to go Dynamic
23:50search ads there are ways to make search
23:53better and and one of our starts in in a
23:55bit will also be around the ads well i'
23:57I've chosen as a separate component
23:59because it's it's so important for a
24:00search campaign to actually work so I
24:02would say say double like start doing
24:04more search start do like just don't
24:07don't get comfortable with with with
24:09shopping owning the whole thing because
24:11search is you can get all you can get
24:14other other consumers you get other
24:16customers than you can with with
24:17shopping and some of the data points
24:19we've seen right that makes sense and so
24:21search obviously not a new thing but uh
24:24if you've taken the lazy approach um
24:27which I think a lot of keep listening by
24:30nature in PPC we're all kind of control
24:31freaks and we we like the campaigns
24:34where we can manage the negative
24:35keywords where we can see the data where
24:37we can set the bids so uh DSA I think
24:39what you're saying is basically that
24:41should be your catchall campaign that
24:43you maintain for the stuff that you
24:45didn't think about the stuff that maybe
24:47is all of a sudden trending um but you
24:49still need to monitor it and then bring
24:50it back into your search campaigns where
24:52you can actually take ownership send it
24:54to the right landing page craft a
24:55messaging and do all of these other
24:57things that you're saying uh you know
24:59Hands-On management does drive better
25:01results and none of us here strive to be
25:04average we strive to be the best in
25:06class right so that's how you get there
25:09the one the one note I'd say on Dynamic
25:11search ad is our my threshold for when
25:13to move move a keyword out of dynamic
25:16search ads and into an actual search
25:17campaign has gone much higher like where
25:20it used to be if you get like five
25:21clicks on a month I was like oh yeah
25:23let's move it now it's much closer like
25:2550 or 100 so like the what what dynamic
25:28searches does incredibly well it takes a
25:31very unique longtail keyword and matches
25:33it for instance to to a product or
25:35longtail service or Pro service page and
25:39that that's kind of that's what you want
25:40out of dynamic search as you just don't
25:42want swimware to be a keyword that's
25:44lying inside Dynamic search has gets
25:46shown to your generic uh homepage or
25:50category page title or go bid a a
25:53product longtail keyword was like say
25:56swimware for swimmers black XXL like
26:00it's just it's a bad match it's a bad
26:02way to actually run search and that's
26:04where we just see people just get too
26:05relied on DSA these days
26:08yeah Julie um not a shopping example but
26:12what is something you're going to start
26:14doing in 2025 so one of the things I
26:17mean that I've been talking a lot about
26:19is making sure that you are well
26:23positioned
26:24competitively I think you know Fred your
26:27book talks all about this but like you
26:29know the with the more leveling of what
26:32happens before the click right like
26:35within the systems with the automation
26:37with the the um machines making
26:40decisions on our behalf right I think
26:43it's even more important that we are
26:46very very aware
26:48of what other options somebody might
26:51have when they're searching for what it
26:53is that we are trying to
26:55sell and it's it's incredible to me I've
26:57been doing this for 20 odd years it's
27:00amazing to me still at this point that I
27:03work with clients who honestly do not
27:07have a true sense of what those other
27:11options are how are the other options
27:14positioning themselves like what are
27:16they putting forward you know and it's
27:18easy for Brands to get very um tunnel
27:22visioned on this is what we do this is
27:25why we're awesome this is why somebody
27:26should want to buy from us and like
27:28that's important but it's equally
27:30important to make sure that what you're
27:31putting out there the copy that you're
27:32putting in your ads what's showing up on
27:34your landing
27:36pages how does that stack up against
27:39what a Searcher is going to see your ad
27:41hardly ever shows up as the only ad on
27:45at the result of a search right there's
27:47there's almost always at least one to
27:48two more ads that are showing up right
27:50next to yours and I think one of the
27:53things that smart advertisers are going
27:55to do this year is make sure
27:58that your ads are competitive and
28:02compelling and create a reason for
28:05somebody to it's not that we haven't
28:06always needed to do this but I feel like
28:08it's even more important now with less
28:11control over what's happening you know
28:13before the click so that's a piece that
28:15I think here in 2025 is really really
28:17important for for
28:19advertisers yeah so we have a
28:21partnership at Athena which provides
28:23some of that competitive data set um how
28:26do you go about that when your clients
28:27Julie is that a manual process do you
28:29have some tools that you like talk a bit
28:31more about that I mean I'm old so I like
28:34to do things
28:36manually and part part of the reason
28:39part of the reason I like to do some of
28:40the manual things too is for me it's
28:43about like trying to really even if I'm
28:47not the Target demographic right I'm a
28:48middle-aged white lady like I might not
28:50be your Target demographic for what
28:52you're selling right but like I want to
28:54try to put myself into the shoes of the
28:57person who we are trying to Target and
28:59what they're seeing and and I find for
29:01myself tools are great you can get a lot
29:04you can get big data sets faster you
29:06know if you're working with tools but to
29:07me the one piece that I always make sure
29:09that I do is I want to see with my own
29:12eyeballs a search for you know some of
29:15the different targeted keywords because
29:17I want to have that experience myself
29:20seeing what's there right and then
29:22seeing like clicking through and seeing
29:24what it goes to because I don't think
29:25there's a substitute for that that you
29:28pull necessarily from a
29:30tool yeah and this goes beyond just the
29:32ads then right it's that experience on
29:34the search page what is it what's
29:35organic what's the AI overview result uh
29:38is there a Maps result what's going on
29:40and that gives you a lot more context um
29:43there is one example I do want to talk
29:45about so I I put this into a lot of my
29:46recent presentations but one thing that
29:48I really love GPT and generative AI for
29:51is that it's really good at putting
29:52itself into shoes of different types of
29:54users so I'll say here's a business who
29:58are the types of people that might be
29:59looking to purchase that product or that
30:01service and then you get that list and
30:03then as the next prompt you'll say uh
30:06tell me what value propositions might
30:08really resonate with that kind of
30:09audience or tell me what kind of
30:11keywords they might be searching for and
30:13now you can start building custom
30:14audiences around that you can use it to
30:16build better ads uh be so my my one
30:19example was um write an ad for a florist
30:22service delivering in
30:24Paris um and it said you need to use the
30:27word Elegance because apparently people
30:30in Paris and France like elegant things
30:32and I was like yeah that sounds
30:33reasonable I don't know if that's true
30:35but sure I I'll buy that and then the
30:37next day I see an ad on my TV for Air
30:39France has got four words in the ad like
30:42basically the brand and like uh
30:44redefining Elegance or something like
30:46that it's like whoa like the French
30:48Airline is actually using that word that
30:50GPT told me is the word that I should be
30:52using and and that's where it's great
30:54it's just it enables you to see things
30:56that um
30:58the data is there because so many people
31:00have written about these categories
31:03these
31:04businesses me as a middle-aged white man
31:07I can't see that I can't put myself in
31:08the shoes of other people but GPT can
31:10and so that's where it's really really
31:12helpful
31:13sometimes yeah I think that's true and I
31:16think you can also use it to compile a
31:19snapshot of the other companies that
31:21you're comp that you're competing as
31:23that you know like whether from auction
31:25insights or whether you're dick doing
31:27searches and you're actually seeing it
31:28you can also ask it to summarize like
31:30what are they about right like what are
31:32they selling and why should people buy
31:33it like that's an interesting exercise
31:35too to see what a machine thinks because
31:39it's exactly it's not having a reaction
31:42like a person would have right it's
31:44having a reaction Based on data that it
31:46has access to relative to that you know
31:49that entity so there's a lot of
31:51interesting stuff I think that's out
31:53there that people are starting to figure
31:56out a little bit more how how to
31:58integrate and how to use in their
32:00ongoing you know strategy management you
32:03know those those types of tasks
32:06yeah Andrew what are your thoughts on
32:09things that we should start doing or
32:10maybe some of this generative that we're
32:12talking
32:14about I'll skip the AI stuff just
32:17because we we talk about AI so much um
32:20with within our space these days um so I
32:23feel like people are like and I still
32:24feel like it's not quite there yet it's
32:26like it can definitely do things of some
32:28of of our own stuff that we do
32:31definitely use it to to just try to get
32:33different perspectives and like a act
32:35like a brand consultant and help me with
32:36this this and this show screenshot how
32:38could we write something different here
32:40and it's it's really good for me it's
32:42still still very very a onetoone
32:45relationship you're sitting in one chat
32:47and getting ideas it's very hard to like
32:50across a big account really maneuver it
32:52and implement it and and do stuff so I
32:54think I think a lot of it is it's still
32:56in the
32:58in the interesting realm where it's not
33:01100% actionable useful yet uh with that
33:03being said we used it a ton um I say the
33:07the one thing that that I think
33:08everybody should should start doing a
33:10lot more is is
33:13understanding understanding ad spend
33:15versus demand and that that both goes
33:19into how do you actually do Channel
33:20efficiency across meta and Google as
33:22like two of the main channels like one
33:24is demand one is uh demand generation
33:27one is demand and capture and we we just
33:31found some interesting things last year
33:33where we could see that that the clients
33:35like Julie said They they're used to
33:37bidding and spending 60% of their budget
33:40on on meta well once we got into certain
33:44Peak Seasons or up to Christmas or
33:46during Black Friday where search
33:48actually ex like surpassed the demand
33:50that was on uh on meta it could be tough
33:53to actually convince clients to think
33:55that the budget ratio shouldn't be 6040
33:58forever but there are times of the year
34:00where especially for a DDC brand where
34:03Google can actually spend much more
34:05efficiently than you can on meta which
34:07is not the case for most of the Year
34:10meta is much more efficient at
34:11generating scale um so understanding
34:15when to spend what on what channel is
34:18something that's a very big question but
34:20you can really narrow it down to like
34:22the amount of searches on Google the
34:24more searches that you see in Google
34:25Trends should dictate that you spend
34:27should go up on Google quite
34:30significantly and you should potentially
34:32at the same time lower spend on meta and
34:34we we Rec simply saw direct relations as
34:37Google got much better than meta
34:39actually usually went down both during
34:41Peak Seasons again swimwear during the
34:43summer but then during up to Christmas
34:46the better we ran into Christmas the
34:48better Google ran the worst meta
34:50actually ran on majority of our accounts
34:53so that was something I think everybody
34:54just needs to understand a little bit
34:55more because like Julie said these are
34:58some of the things that will make
35:01you simply just run ads better where we
35:04all have access to the same smart
35:05bidding we all have access to the same
35:07campaign types where we really make a
35:09difference is where we again where we
35:11position our our business great what
35:13kind of ass we create great but then how
35:15do we utilize the budgets that we have
35:17available uh is something that it's just
35:19going to be a bigger and bigger thing
35:21because these days everybody who access
35:23to Smart bidding is just as good at the
35:26bidding mean as I am because I have
35:29access to the same smart bitting uh so
35:31need to find other ways to get better
35:33than others and stay ahead and so that's
35:36interesting because you're talking about
35:39um bidding across different channels
35:42let's talk about channels a little bit
35:44more uh obviously we've seen Google and
35:47its search market share in the United
35:49States has consistently dipped below 90%
35:52for the first time in a very long time
35:55it's hold on the ad Market globally has
35:57dipped below
35:5950% um so clearly Google is not growing
36:03and growing it's still the biggest one
36:05um but what are we looking at for the
36:07future where are you seeing maybe future
36:09Investments that we should start in
36:142025 I just think that so I think
36:17there's there's two types of businesses
36:18out there uh you have the businesses
36:20that are heavy search and you have the
36:22business that are heavy social those
36:24kind of like that that's like the
36:26majority of this like like small to Mid
36:30Big Range business of course get the
36:32Expedia and the Ubers of the world ca-ca
36:36they're everywhere so we don't we we
36:37discount those we don't talk about them
36:39but those like that are in that like
36:41small to Mid to low low of low high
36:44range they're either very very heavy on
36:47search or they're very very heavy on on
36:49on paid social and they need to marry up
36:53100% you canot like the the metad days
36:55where they you would just like growing
36:57and scaling into the skies are gone um
37:00Google is hella expensive on cpcs these
37:03days and the skill set you have in
37:05Google do not do not translate over to
37:08meta and The Meta skill set do not
37:10translate over to Google so everybody
37:12has a really hard thing to do uh trying
37:15to do this but you really really should
37:18you should really expand because the
37:21channels are getting worse and worse and
37:23worse um and there is that huge
37:25opportunity which I am if if I can find
37:28people in Google I tell them this every
37:30single time you you screwed up uh
37:34YouTube you like YouTube is the best ad
37:37channel in the
37:38world YouTube is the best ad inventory
37:41in the world and you're selling me
37:43channel clicks on I don't know what like
37:47going through it is just horrible to go
37:49through your D you're spending double
37:50the budget the entire week the threshold
37:53to get into YouTube is so high like we
37:55don't even touch anything below $10,000
37:57a month
37:5810 20 30 that's where you have to start
38:00to just start getting a real effect out
38:02of out of YouTube and it come on it
38:04shouldn't be that difficult and Andre
38:06let's go a little deeper because before
38:08we started recording here we were
38:09talking a bit about your newsletter and
38:11I think something that you mentioned was
38:13you want to go a little bit heavier on
38:15the video sites so talk about that and
38:17that's not necessarily PPC but it is
38:19still marketing and I think it is
38:21relevant for all of us as business
38:23owners how do we get the word out that
38:26we're they're ready to help you like
38:27uh I mean blogs are obviously very old
38:30school uh people have been doing this
38:31for a very long time same at newsletter
38:33same at email uh video not that new
38:37anymore but it is newer right so so how
38:39do you see that shift happening so so so
38:43I've been writing articles and blogs for
38:45as long as I can remember I'm I'm a good
38:47writer I always like it always came kind
38:49of Na natural to me so I always went
38:51really well uh but in the last year and
38:54with chat GBC coming up it's it's
38:57getting harder and harder for for me
38:59personally to defend spending a lot of
39:00time writing an article uh a lot of the
39:03people who read the stuff that that that
39:05we write they they've been following me
39:07for years but when we look at new
39:10subscribers new people to get the
39:13awareness of who I am what Savvy does
39:15and in
39:16general articles doesn't seem to be it
39:19simply don't seem to be the way to to
39:21get around getting to new people and
39:23with chat gbt coming out it's getting
39:25easier and easier and easier to write at
39:26decent SLG good article uh so you just
39:29can't stand out so how can you stand out
39:31it's by having some personality it's by
39:33showing up it's about being seen it's
39:35about being able to be consumed on
39:37different in different Avenues where an
39:40article you can sit on your phone or
39:41your laptop and you can write it or so
39:43you can read it but if you are on a
39:46YouTube channel or a video then like I
39:49walk to dog and I listen to Why
39:50Manchester United is trying to buy a
39:51Danish lifeback this morning because I
39:54thought it was interesting right but I
39:55will never ever sit on my computer and
39:57sit 20 minutes and and look at that same
39:59thing if you're trying to just get a
40:00little okay let me just learn a little
40:02bit about this what is Andrew's opinion
40:04on on on performance Max these days then
40:06you can just go in and you can listen to
40:08a quick quick video doesn't have to
40:10watch it doesn't have to sit and see it
40:12but the differentiation that I have
40:14being able to say my voice my opinions
40:16and showcase things in a video instead
40:20of just visually doing something sorry
40:23writing something out is just huge and
40:25the Really the big wow moment for us was
40:27when we changed all of our agency
40:30communication uh processes from being in
40:32writing to being bullet points plus Loom
40:36so doing bullet points and so you so
40:38anybody can just quickly just see what's
40:41going on scan it but then okay if I need
40:44to show something this is what has
40:45happened in the account this is the way
40:47it is moving this is the our
40:48interpretation of this data a five to 8
40:51Minute loom video with a screen share
40:53where they can see me see me smiling
40:55usually uh it's much much better much
40:57more collaborative and I was just like
41:00okay we're just shooting articles out
41:01into the interweb and hoping that people
41:03will read it when this is so much more
41:05in depth and people can get to know me
41:07much better versus the written the
41:11written things so that's that's our
41:12thinking my thinking on on video being
41:15even more important going
41:17forward Julie I'd love to hear from you
41:19and you've obviously made a a large
41:20shift with PPC chat in recent history
41:24and having really been on um Twitter
41:28before it was X and now it shifted to I
41:31believe
41:31slack so to talk to us about what you're
41:35seeing in the social space and again it
41:37doesn't have to be PPC per se but where
41:40are people these days and how's that
41:42causing you to shift your strategies in
41:442025 we just talked about this topic on
41:47uh today's chat if anyone wants to look
41:50at the archive version we'll put the
41:53link right there
41:55descrition so it's it's a really
41:58interesting time as far as how
42:04to develop and maintain community and
42:08that could be whether you're developing
42:10a community like of customers right for
42:13advertisers a business or whether you
42:15are trying to develop community and
42:18communicate with folks um it
42:21feels more fragmented than ever uh
42:25certainly PPC chat existed
42:27almost exclusively on Twitter for 10 11
42:31years uh it then you know when I took it
42:34over it was primarily Twitter
42:36twitter-based and over the last few
42:38years the environment has changed
42:40people's desire and hunger to use
42:42Twitter has changed um and so I've
42:46Diversified PBC chat into as many
42:48channels as it feels like people want to
42:50participate
42:52on and it's tiring as the person who is
42:57running things on now I used to run like
43:00two channels you know like LinkedIn and
43:02and Twitter and now I'm on LinkedIn
43:05Twitter threads Blue Sky we have a
43:08Discord we have a slack like it's a lot
43:11um and so I think one of the things that
43:15we're going to have to figure out sort
43:17of like individually and collectively is
43:20how how do we want to interact with each
43:22other how do we want to interact how do
43:23people want to be interacted with in
43:25general and I think that's something
43:28that
43:29um depends a little bit on the
43:32demographics of who you are interacting
43:35with too because there's a big
43:37generational split in love a video
43:40versus
43:42written so if you're if you're trying to
43:46like get with people who are you know
43:49like 40ish and under video is highly
43:53preferred especially the 30 you know 35
43:56and under crowd
43:57um if you're looking to reach people who
43:59are 45 50 and older video is not going
44:03to do for you what it's going to do in
44:04that same younger demographic and so I
44:07think one of the things we also need to
44:08do is tune in and think about who are we
44:11trying to reach and then create ways to
44:14reach the various effectively reach the
44:17various demographics who might be buying
44:19what it is that we're selling right and
44:21I think that's something that we're
44:22video can play a huge part in that and I
44:24think if you're sleeping on video in
44:252025
44:27you're probably going to regret that um
44:30but I think you need a strategy like
44:32you're you're not NE you're not making
44:33video for 55 year olds really generally
44:36right you're making videos for for
44:38people who are you know in their 30s and
44:40and younger um and so that might be a
44:43little bit different messaging than what
44:44you're doing in different media so it's
44:46a lot of experimentation honestly and
44:49finding that mix that works for what it
44:52is that you're doing I wish I had a
44:54better
44:56answer great answer um I mean I think
44:59you're spot on with the different uh
45:01audience segments but I think technology
45:03really come to the rescue here because I
45:05would also put myself in the camp of
45:07like listen I don't want to look at a
45:08five minute video and I can read three
45:10bullet points and get my answer right
45:11there but as a Creator it's really
45:15difficult to take three bullet points
45:16and turn it into a video that satisfies
45:18those people who want to consume a video
45:20whereas the other way around you now
45:22create a video geni is going to make you
45:25a beautiful transcript it's going to do
45:26the bullet point so it actually makes it
45:28consumable for everyone so the way that
45:30I would think about it is like what is
45:32the most difficult content that I can
45:34create one time that then becomes the
45:36foundation for everything else to be
45:38somewhat automatically created right and
45:40and that's where I think a focus on
45:42video does make a lot more sense because
45:44you're not really cutting off um that
45:48older audience you're just starting at a
45:49different point that leads into
45:51eventually you'll have those assets that
45:53the older audience prefers anyway
45:57you used be like that was exactly what
45:59happened with us like I I I tried the
46:01last six months of 2024 to to go from
46:05art like okay the idea was to write an
46:07article and use that as quote unquote a
46:08script to create a video based off never
46:12I found the time never found a time to
46:14go out and make create that video based
46:16on it where I again like you said you
46:19can create a video and then get some get
46:21chat gbt using my voice to write an
46:23article based on it easy peasy I can't
46:26get I can't catch chbt to do to do a
46:28video on me um not even the The Notebook
46:31llm is is quite there I just like I it's
46:35it's very interesting but I get like
46:38cringe on another level when I hear
46:40somebody wow was that the case with
46:43Google quality squ I didn't know that
46:45was I know so tweaking that you might
46:48get somewhere from a podcast very very
46:50interesting not quite there yet uh but
46:52but yeah I like I like the video first
46:54approach um and just to just just on a
46:57note with age the Missouri was it called
47:00the Missouri Star Quilt Company uh seven
47:03figure no was it nine figure annual
47:08revenue mainly organic YouTube they're
47:11just how to
47:13quilt I mean it's possible you just have
47:15to I think you have to find what works I
47:17think that's really I think it's like
47:19flexibility is always been important in
47:21this industry and not being so rigidly
47:24committed or married to this is we're
47:27going to do this and this is how we're
47:28going to do it forever like we all know
47:29that doesn't work right like you have to
47:32be flexible in your thinking you have to
47:33be willing to be flexible in your in
47:35your approach and how you want to do
47:37things and try I mean try stuff right
47:40like try it for your business first and
47:43see like if you haven't done a lot with
47:44video give it a whirl make some little
47:46videos I mean Jill sasing gailes is like
47:48my content hero she makes more content I
47:51don't know how she does I'm convinced
47:52she doesn't sleep um she's incredible
47:56she just does it she's incredible with
47:58the content like just put you know but
48:00her one of the big ways she does it is
48:02exactly what you guys are talking about
48:03and that is starting from one and then
48:06how do you slice and dice that into
48:07pieces that you can use in in other ways
48:09and I think thinking about that for both
48:11ourselves and our businesses and on
48:13behalf of our clients and Brands I feel
48:16like that's a formula that is going to
48:18be helpful no matter which pieces of it
48:20you know you end up really implementing
48:22having that that mind thought you know
48:25that that thought process that mindset I
48:27think will be helpful heading heading
48:29into the you know 2025 Year all right
48:31let's talk about the things you're going
48:33to be doubling down on for 20125 and
48:35Julie I'd love to start with you on this
48:37one so we've talked about video and I
48:40think video is an area that personally I
48:42have not pushed really hard in you know
48:45I work with lead generation clients they
48:46tend to be a little more video averse
48:49maybe than uh than Ecom folks are but I
48:52think really trying to
48:57get more buyin and have more
49:00opportunities to have video assets to
49:02work with on various platforms I think
49:05is really really going to be important
49:08especially as more junk can be created
49:09by more written junk can be created by
49:11AI it's as Andrew said earlier it's it's
49:14much harder to create AI video so if you
49:17can even if they're short even if
49:18they're little Snippets you know baby
49:20steps
49:21people get a video get a video going I
49:24think it's probably something
49:28I I I agree but to the point of it being
49:29harder to do video uh let me introduce
49:32you to my AI double video Avatar that
49:36talks in my voice as my face uh we'll
49:38put a link up to this in the uh
49:40description so people can take a look
49:41and tell me how he's called little Fred
49:44he's called he's called little Fred
49:46that's what we call him at conferences
49:48it's scary it's scary that's it's a
49:49little I mean that piece is a little
49:50scar I try to think about that piece too
49:52much because you know you don't want
49:54people well you could think about where
49:56that technology could go but for Brands
49:58if we're talking about you know people
50:00that we're working with the the time of
50:03being able to just be like no no no no
50:05no we don't we don't do
50:08video I don't know that that's really
50:10going to you know be sustainable so I
50:12think it's something that if you're not
50:14already doing it at a minimum you need
50:17to be talking about it putting the
50:20resources in place and planning planning
50:21for it so be able to start adding it
50:23into the mix of what you're doing makes
50:26sense
50:27Andrew let's go to you so I have uh I
50:31have have three things the the number
50:33one thing I'd say is uh smart bidding
50:37and understanding playtime with smart
50:39bidding way too many PBC managers today
50:43just put on a Target increase it
50:45decrease it and don't know what's
50:48happening it's it's it's crazy to me uh
50:52and I think this I think it's crazy to
50:53many who did Manual bidding to just let
50:56smart bidding run its course and see
50:58what happens there are so many cool
51:01mechanisms to the way the smart bidding
51:03bids as you increase and decrease
51:05targets whether not it should be a 10%
51:07increase or a 20 or 30% increase
51:10decrease it does different things and
51:12the way that it kind of expands as you
51:14lower your rows During certain time
51:18lower increases your bids as you lower
51:20the to Target during different times of
51:22the year is just mindblowing the results
51:25you can get out of playing with it so I
51:28I just encourage everybody smart bidding
51:31playtime there's like we do a lot of
51:32audits in Savvy it's it's it's become a
51:34really big thing uh to to do audits for
51:36in-house teams and the amount of time we
51:38have the conversation that goes so what
51:40why why do you still run this roads
51:42Target well we've always run it ah stop
51:46or we don't want to try to we don't want
51:48to rock the boat ah stop you have to
51:51rock the boat go so the way the smart
51:53building works is that it works by
51:55historical performance and it utilized
51:57that historical performance over and
51:58over and over and over but if things
52:01change in your business so all of a
52:02sudden a brand or category has become
52:04bigger but three six nine 12 months ago
52:07it learned that that category didn't do
52:08well from a surf term perspective it's
52:10not going to magically pick that up
52:12again you have to tell it by decreasing
52:15the rowers or by by grouping rowers
52:18targets together through sh bidding bid
52:20portfolio
52:21strategies that it has to go out and
52:24chase some things so I would just hiding
52:26encourage playtime with with smart
52:28bidding as a key skill that any PBC
52:31manager should be able to do today um
52:35second thing interesting second thing is
52:40is a is Splendid Ros uh this marketing
52:43efficiency ratio myrr uh anything where
52:46you look at your overall Revenue versus
52:47your your marketing spend that's
52:50something that's become extremely
52:52popular these days uh and and I for one
52:55love it it it overrides a lot of issues
52:57about tracking accuracies and avoids
53:01mainly the attribution conversation I
53:03would say just double down on that
53:06double click on it Go One Step Beyond
53:09just going this is we're have revenue of
53:11a million and we can allow ourselves to
53:13spend 15% that conversation is too
53:17one-sided it's too ad focused you don't
53:20take SEO into perspective you don't take
53:22oftentimes affiliate email direct
53:24traffic into perspective which is one of
53:26the benefits of it but it's also its
53:28biggest downside that you're not
53:30thinking about those other channels
53:32anymore the entire conversation all
53:3420124 and Savvy was what are we spending
53:36on meta what are we spending on Google
53:38what's our Blended RW and it's just it's
53:40too simple net profit contribution
53:42margin new customers versus uh existing
53:45customers lifetime value optimization
53:47doesn't you don't have to do it all just
53:49pick one of those aspects to include
53:51into that Blended Ras
53:54conversation and you will be be able to
53:56see you can actually you have more
53:58buttons to to to to push than than you
54:01thought you
54:02could uh yeah and third one I would just
54:05say just ads just do write better ads
54:09everybody every single person listening
54:11to this write better ads if you go out
54:13and you SE do what Julie said search for
54:15a keyword see what everybody else is
54:17writing and what you're try what the
54:19reason why shopping does better than
54:20search is that you can see the price in
54:23shopping and you can see the product so
54:25if I'm looking for
54:27a winter jacket to go to Denmark so I
54:28don't freeze with my San Diego spring
54:31jacket during winter snowstorms in
54:33Denmark which I do every year then I go
54:36okay I like okay that rainbow colored
54:38$3,000 jacket that's not for me I'm not
54:41goingon to click that that
54:43$400 technical jacket from this Menor
54:47brand I like that in olive green I'm
54:49clicking that and I'm already qualified
54:51to click on one ad over the other when
54:53you click on shopping you can get the
54:55same effect in search get the pricing in
54:58there and get some qualifiers in there
55:00right why people shouldn't like get
55:01people to stop clicking your ads because
55:03that means you get the right people to
55:04click on your ad so if you have an ad
55:07that just says men's were on sale I
55:09don't know what I'm clicking on that's
55:11why search doesn't work in e-commerce is
55:13because everybody does that write
55:14something specific is it is it Street
55:17inspired men's whereare is it stretchy
55:21menw in I'm Danish on my brain but is it
55:25like what get some good examples on like
55:28Comfort men's whereare like or package
55:30offers like things that that that get
55:33the right person to click on your ad and
55:35you'll just see search do much better so
55:37just double down on search write some
55:39better ads ask chat TBT what could I
55:42write differently here and just it's not
55:44that difficult well and that goes back
55:46to the blending of Social and sege
55:48social seems to be so good at knowing
55:50exactly what kind of men's Weare you
55:53seem to prefer why can't that not exist
55:55in in search right if you do that more
55:57generic query and that's one of my
56:00premises that I've been talking about a
56:01lot is that large language models are
56:03basically starting to serve as our
56:05memories by the way I'm wearing the uh
56:07the B computer this yellow thing on my
56:09wrist it's recording everything that
56:11happens throughout my day so this
56:12conversation later on I'll get bullet
56:14points but if I go to a store and I ask
56:16a question about whether the soda stream
56:19refill canisters are in stock it'll
56:21remember that too and it'll know if they
56:23were or not and it'll tell me hey Fred
56:25go on online and order that thing right
56:27so uh but but but as these things become
56:29more and more of your memory I can now
56:31go to a search engine and I can say uh
56:33refill and it'll know that what kind of
56:36refill am I talking about well I went to
56:38the store and I was talking about a
56:39solid stream refill so a very generic
56:41query can actually lead to a very
56:43specific answer uh because it knows me
56:45right and that's I think how search will
56:47change because of large language models
56:49wow I'm going to get I'm going to get
56:51divorced I'm like if I can if I can pull
56:53up a computer to let to let my know wife
56:55know I'm I was right uh I would not
56:59advise that no doesn't sound like a good
57:02idea not do
57:03that my my wife does insist that I push
57:06the the little button and then it
57:07becomes red and it stops listening
57:10so no but I love it I love it like I
57:13can't I can't wait for the day that I
57:16don't have to remember anything or or
57:18explicitly tell some like tell the AI
57:21something I I can't wait like my wife
57:23was we were talking about food yesterday
57:25she was making a a good like fried rice
57:27and we were out of toasted sesame oil
57:30well Google is listening to everything
57:32we're saying it should simply just add
57:34it to the shopping list we've bought it
57:35before we've had it on the list before
57:37is listening all the time
57:39anyways just add it to the list don't
57:41make me add it to the list don't make me
57:43tell it to add it to the list and then
57:44I'm a little bit hor right now so it
57:46can't recognize my voice anyways just
57:49add it
57:50l this is a $50 device that you can buy
57:53today it'll be shipped to you in about
57:55three days b b. computer um and it's
57:58fascinating because at the end of the
58:00day I do get my reports and just I never
58:04realized how much something can know
58:07about you just by being present
58:09throughout the day um and so that
58:11example that I just gave it's brilliant
58:13but like wait until you see what else it
58:14starts to know about you just by being
58:16on your wrist um and it's scary but it's
58:19also exciting and you know I want to I
58:21want to try it out and see where this
58:22can lead us but I think 2025 very uh
58:26exciting and Julie I think you said it
58:27that we don't know what what it's going
58:29to bring good or bad it's definitely a
58:30time of change but let's make it change
58:33for the better uh thank you both for
58:35sharing your perspectives on what to
58:37stop start and double down on I think
58:40this has been a great episode so uh
58:41Julie people can find you at Neptune
58:44Moon uh as well as PPC chat yes anything
58:48else I'm on all the platforms so you can
58:51find me uh Neptune moon on all the
58:54socials you can find me on link in
58:56neptun moon.com official PBC chat.com I
59:00mean I'm I'm not hard to find if you
59:02want if you want to track me down and
59:04talk about any of this stuff I will put
59:07some of those links in the description
59:08as well my executive assistant when I
59:12said hey I I don't have Julie's email at
59:14the moment like can you reach her uh she
59:17was like wait is this the person on
59:18LinkedIn I was like yeah that's the
59:19person you can't miss her um Andrew
59:22Savvy Revenue uh what should people do
59:24to get a hold of you so one thing just
59:27just go follow me on LinkedIn like I'll
59:30I I write a bunch of stuff in there I at
59:32the moment like I said to begin with I'm
59:34I'm liking going through Linkedin on on
59:36a daily weekly basis and then seeing all
59:38the stupid things people are saying
59:40these days and just in in very very
59:43common low sensical words say why is
59:47that wrong and you'd be surprised
59:49because I I'm it's chat a lot of it is
59:51chat gbt and I'm just like well that's
59:53just wrong it's just blatantly wrong
59:55what they're saying and here is why so
59:57if you're looking for a little bit of of
59:59sense in your Google ads dat just just
1:00:01follow me on LinkedIn uh it's it's where
1:00:03you get the most out of it Andrew I'm
1:00:05gonna hire you as my fact Checker sounds
1:00:07like uh there's a big future in that
1:00:10okay there's you there said there's a
1:00:12YouTube video series that comes up
1:00:13Andrew Andrew debunks stuff so it's
1:00:17coming okay we'll put that in the notes
1:00:19as well hey thank you both thanks
1:00:20everyone for watching hope you enjoyed
1:00:22this episode please subscribe put in
1:00:24comments what you liked uh you want to
1:00:26see more of and we'll see you for the
1:00:28next episode of PPC Town Hall take care

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