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Pokeflipz Live Q&A Fake Cards Sold on Fanatics and Alt — Transcript

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0:03Hey everyone,
0:05Al Pokemon here back again with the Poke
0:10Flips podcast
0:12joined by my usual co-host Catch Them
0:15All Collectibles. Dan, how are we doing
0:18tonight, Dan?
0:20>> We're uh we're surviving. We're
0:22surviving. Uh I think many bullets were
0:26maybe dodged. Maybe they weren't all
0:28dodged. Maybe I'm bleeding out. I don't
0:31even fully know. Uh,
0:35this podcast has survived through a lot
0:37of drama, through a lot of
0:40>> different uh things in the hobby that
0:42felt like it was going to be uh
0:46was going to be the end. This one feels
0:49the worst.
0:50>> This one feels worse than the rest.
0:53>> Maybe that's dramatic. I don't know.
0:56>> I I would say so. I would say so. Before
0:58we hop into that, one quick thing. Um,
1:01Walrus and I were talking the other day
1:03um, about all the podcasts dying. I
1:06think we might be the oldest running
1:08Pokemon podcast. Um, because I looked it
1:10up, Shadowless Podcast, who I thought
1:12>> that's the first one I was going to say.
1:14>> They're the oldest one. And they started
1:15shortly after us. Oh,
1:18>> okay. I thought they were before us. M
1:21>> I uh yeah, I I think um
1:25there's there's a few that have been
1:26really consistent for for a few years
1:29and I've definitely heard more than one
1:31podcast refer to themselves as the
1:33longest running Pokemon podcast. Uh Card
1:36Lounge, I I'm sure Twice Bake Jake, I'm
1:38sure Robo Skills won't see this, but uh
1:41not as many people watch ours, but ours
1:43has been around a lot longer. Uh,
1:46>> yep.
1:47>> I think they they do every week though,
1:49don't they? They could be passing us in
1:51episodes at some point soon.
1:53>> Yeah.
1:53>> Um, cuz we we've been going on
1:56>> six years. It'll be in March. So, we're
1:59five and a half years.
2:00>> They might be three years of every week.
2:02So, like, yeah, there might be some
2:05getting ahead of us. And I I know uh it
2:09is crazy. I we don't we don't keep by
2:11numbers anymore. We were doing seasons
2:12and episode numbers and whatever. And I
2:15remember when like Slabbed hit the
2:17hundth episode and shout out Professor
2:20Oak, like where's he at? He's uh
2:22hopefully everything's going well. Maybe
2:23AI is taking over. Maybe he's trying to
2:26stay employed. I I I don't know what.
2:28But uh no, it is crazy.
2:30>> Price Memory Podcast had a three-week
2:31hiatus, but they did just come back
2:33because Retro and Kai got done with
2:35their trip.
2:36>> Yeah.
2:36>> Uh
2:37>> but yeah, we're uh we're holding down
2:39the fort.
2:40>> We are. We are. It's exciting. It's
2:42exciting. Yeah. I was I was I was
2:44surprised because yeah, I got me Walrus
2:46and I were talking about that and it got
2:48me thinking and uh yeah, no, that's
2:49that's why because I can't think of any
2:51others. The Shadow was the the one that
2:53I thought had us beat, but uh we got we
2:56got them beat just just by the skin of
2:58our teeth.
3:00>> And are they are they still going?
3:03>> They are still going.
3:05>> Okay.
3:06>> Yeah.
3:07>> I don't think I've ever watched that
3:08one. Or may maybe I did probably years
3:10ago at one point. But is that super
3:13duper Danny or is that like Nate? Real
3:15breaking Nate. Is that both of them?
3:17>> Yeah.
3:18>> Okay. Okay. So, I I I am I definitely
3:20have seen it at one point or another,
3:22but uh as always and I guess you asked
3:25me how I was at the beginning. How are
3:27you doing, Nick? And then we'll get into
3:28it.
3:29>> H We're doing We're doing It's a lot.
3:32It's a lot. Yes, we're surviving.
3:34>> Um I think we'll finally be doing good,
3:36though. We got um I just got I got the
3:38Rayquaza chair, the Secret Labs chair
3:40for the store. Um so I got that. I got a
3:43better desk uh for the the streaming at
3:46the shop. Um so tomorrow I'll get that
3:50all set up and uh hopefully hopefully be
3:53be good after that. But uh but yeah,
3:56it's it's still a lot between streaming,
4:00doing the shop. It's it's a lot. It's a
4:03lot. I'm hoping I'm hoping by the end of
4:05the year get a get a good good schedule
4:08going and uh be good for going into next
4:11year.
4:12>> Yeah. Yeah. You're uh you're on that
4:15grind, aren't you? We're booming and
4:16Nick is uh opening shops and when you
4:19going to open store too?
4:21>> Never. Never. We are never opening
4:23another store and we're moving
4:26locations.
4:27>> Never is a big word. And you you're
4:29currently doing some things that you
4:31said you'd never do. I mean, having
4:32streamers and employees, like, we'll
4:35see. We'll see, Nick. We'll we'll break
4:37him on it.
4:38>> Um,
4:40>> but yeah, everything in the shop is
4:42pretty good. How many millions of
4:43dollars of slab inventory did you have
4:45that uh that ended up to be to be fake?
4:48>> That's a nice That's a nice thing about
4:49having a shop is I do not deal with
4:51high-end.
4:53I am I am uh I'd say like sub,000 gang
4:57for the most part, which is which is
4:59that's definitely the best part. That's
5:01definitely the best part. So, I got to I
5:03got to hear about the news and uh not
5:05have to worry too too much.
5:07>> Not be affected. That's good.
5:08>> Yeah.
5:09>> Yeah. I uh So,
5:12>> anything else you want to cover before
5:14we get into it or should we just dive
5:15in? I I feel like the best way to go is
5:17I'll share screen.
5:18>> I'll give Some people might be hearing
5:20about this for the first time. We won't
5:22get too crazy with it, but like I'll do
5:24a quick couple minute overview of the E4
5:26thread and the background. And then um
5:32as always, this is Poke Flips. We're
5:33going to be live for the next couple
5:36hours, maybe maybe three hours,
5:37depending on how the night goes. I don't
5:39know. We'll we'll see what Nick is uh
5:41awake for.
5:42>> We're good. We're good this week. We're
5:43good this week. We're back to We're back
5:45to We're back to semi-normal. We're uh
5:47we're recovered from Collecton, so we're
5:49good. We're good.
5:51But yeah, let us know. Um,
5:55let us know if you have any questions in
5:57the chat and we will get to them. I will
5:59star them as we go. Uh, but yeah, does
6:02that sound good? I'll uh let me find
6:04this thread and then we'll we'll
6:07>> I clicked on that because I I saw your
6:09story uh clicked on that. I was going to
6:10read through it and uh I saw there were
6:12like 250 posts and uh nope.
6:17>> And now we're going to do them all one
6:18by one.
6:2091.
6:22>> No, I'll uh I I've been I' I've read all
6:24of them. I think this is something that
6:26I talked about earlier in office hours.
6:29It's kind of scary how many people will
6:32just read an Instagram story and they'll
6:35only half read it and they'll only take
6:36like the wrong things from it and they
6:38won't bother to spend a couple minutes
6:40on like looking at the primary
6:42information over on E4, over on Reddit
6:44where the original thing broke or
6:46whatever. Uh it's a little bit scary.
6:49I don't know if I should share the
6:50Reddit thread. Uh,
6:54I guess I can, but I I think pictures of
6:56it are in the uh
6:59are in the Yeah, pictures of it. The E4
7:01thread is actually better than the
7:02Reddit thread. Anyways, let me um let me
7:03let me get the shared and we'll I'll
7:05give you the rundown. I'm pretty up to
7:08speed, I think, with all things this
7:10because as we'll as we'll talk about
7:12tonight, I and my my Monday video will
7:16definitely be this. I'm sure we'll have
7:18more info by then. My video uh my my
7:22live stream next week will probably be
7:23all about this because this is this is
7:25massive and
7:27>> by the time you go live next week,
7:29>> I I don't think it will be and and we'll
7:31detail some of the reasons why I think
7:33that is, but but yeah, let's let's dive
7:34into it. Um so the origin of this was
7:40yesterday morning on Reddit and I was
7:42actually I was with Beerski. I was with
7:44SPAT. They came up to visit. Beers
7:46filled a car full of Pokemon product
7:49from recent collection buys that I had
7:51and he he took it back down to Box
7:52Nostalgia to sell in the uh in the shop
7:56and we hit the Turning Stone Casino and
7:58I lost a bunch of money there, but I had
7:59a good time.
8:00>> But anyways, we we were getting lunch.
8:03We were getting lunch yesterday morning
8:04on their way out and they're like, "Hey,
8:06do you see this you see this thing? You
8:08see this hitting uh Instagram and
8:10Discord and all that stuff?"
8:12And my first reaction is always like the
8:14internet's probably overreacting. It's
8:16probably nothing.
8:17>> I etc. And and I don't go back on what I
8:20was saying like like the general
8:22sentiment of like let's wait for more
8:24information to come before we grab our
8:26pitchforks before we get all emotional,
8:28all wound up. But like in hindsight,
8:32getting a little bit fired up is the
8:33appropriate reaction because this is
8:35massive. This is uh we'll talk about how
8:39massive it was. Uh, but yeah, the
8:40original story, some person on Reddit,
8:43here's the DOE mi-14.
8:48They were looking at Instagram or
8:50Fanatics or wherever and they saw a
8:52$288,000
8:53Dragonite sale expedition, and it had
8:56the same as theirs. And the issue with
8:59that is they Well, this is where it's
9:01weird, too. Um, they said that they
9:03graded it and then we come to find out
9:05through E4 that Rainbow Jim, you and I
9:08actually know Rainbow Jim. Uh,
9:10>> yeah. So, so Rainbow Jim is involved
9:12here. Uh, not in any nefarious way, just
9:14she apparently graded the card and sold
9:17it to this person and must be she told
9:19them like, "Hey, I'm the one who graded
9:20the card and then they just decided on
9:22Reddit 5 years later." They'd say that
9:24they graded it, which which was like a
9:26little bit of drama and like muddied
9:27things up for a minute there. But
9:29anyways, this card that they knew, the
9:31person who graded it and they bought it
9:32from them and nobody else owned it.
9:34Like, how did this sell on Fanatics last
9:36night? Because I have it in my
9:37possession. And
9:38>> one one quick thing before we move on,
9:40though. Um I I I don't know how people
9:44realize this stuff. Like, how did that
9:46guy realize it was the same copy?
9:49>> I would never in a million years
9:51realize.
9:53>> I just so observant. Some people are so
9:55observant.
9:56>> I don't GET IT. IT'S WILD to
9:59>> to me the card is the product. Maybe if
10:01it had the same swirl. Maybe if it had
10:03like a fire swirl and I was browsing
10:05Instagram and it's like that's the
10:07grail. Like this guy actually or guy or
10:09gal I guess. I don't know. They um they
10:11have a 1 to 10 collection. This is
10:13presumably one of their favorite cards.
10:16So, like they they really like the card
10:18and I guess they like it enough that
10:20they they knew the cert or or somehow it
10:23because I would see that and I'd be
10:24like, "Oh, damn. That card that I own in
10:26my PC, I I have that card, too." I would
10:29never say like I have that exact copy.
10:31Yeah.
10:32>> But anyways, they were
10:33>> Why? It's crazy how how uh how close
10:37people people look into this stuff.
10:39>> Maybe it was like an AI thing. I know
10:40there's a lot of different websites that
10:42are tracking every sale and they have
10:44every coming up and maybe it was one of
10:46those things. I I don't really know. But
10:48anyways, this person posted on Reddit
10:50like here's a time stamp that they
10:52showed the date. They showed like here's
10:54my username. I have this card and
10:58Fanatic sold this same card. It cannot
11:00be and that's what spawned all this
11:02stuff. So then people started doing all
11:04the detective work and and uh basically
11:08there are several aspects of a slab that
11:11can be potential
11:13yellow flags. I don't think there's a
11:16single smoking gun. And uh you probably
11:18don't know this, Nick, but on the on the
11:20bottom left of the front and the back of
11:23a PSA slab, what is the number?
11:25>> See the 21s?
11:26>> I was going to say the tw if you had IF
11:28YOU HAD TOLD
11:29>> THAT'S SO DUMB. OH, NO. NO. BUT, but if
11:32you had told everyone in the hobby a
11:34week ago, tell us what number is on all
11:36the PSA slabs and we'll give you a
11:38million dollars. Very few people would
11:40have known what number was on the card.
11:41The 21s have so many variants. There are
11:44so many variants.
11:45>> They're pieces of plastic.
11:47>> Yeah. The the PSA, we always say 2
11:51million searchs. Two million are
11:52actually 20 millions. 17s are actually
11:55170 millions. There are literally 200
11:58million PSA slabs out there and the
12:01variance in
12:03plastic production is just so wide. So
12:06the 21s are I I think there are certain
12:09ones that are more yellow flagged than
12:11others, but on top of that, there's a
12:14lot more. Um and and the one that scared
12:16me the most, let me see, yeah, if I can
12:19zoom more. The one that scared me the
12:20most is Rattle actually made a video
12:22yesterday and and maybe I interpreted it
12:25the wrong way or whatever, but but he
12:26said something about these rounded
12:28bumpers. He called them. You see the
12:29bumper? I know this isn't like super
12:31zoomed. Okay, here we go. You see the
12:33bumpers in here?
12:34>> Yeah.
12:34>> He he was saying that like apparently
12:36and Oh, maybe this is I I think this is
12:39actually the fake one that was on that
12:40was on um Yeah, it must be. This is the
12:42fake one that was on Fanatics. So, he
12:44declared these as like a red flag. I
12:46think he declared these as almost like a
12:48smoking gun. The vast majority, if you
12:51look closely, the vast majority of real
12:53slabs, you probably won't be able to
12:56tell here. Let me find a scan of one
12:58quick, but the vast majority of real
13:00slabs don't have a rounded bumper like
13:03that. Let me go to Fanatics. Let me pull
13:05up a couple things. I I I'm illprepared.
13:07I didn't have all the the tabs open that
13:09I should have had opened. But anyways,
13:11like he deemed in his video this is a
13:15red flag if your card has this. He
13:17didn't like I don't think he guaranteed
13:18it was fake or anything, but he he kind
13:20of said like this is one of the bad
13:22signs of potentially multiple that could
13:25mean that your slab is fake. Come on,
13:27Finax, load for me. Um,
13:29>> that's that's another thing I would
13:31never I don't even know. I can't even
13:32think of how what they look like. I've
13:34looked at hundreds of them now and very
13:38few real ones have the rounded bits on
13:41them, but some of them do. Uh I'm I'm
13:44going to get a couple listings pulled up
13:45here that I sold recently on Fanatics to
13:47to demonstrate. And so the first thing
13:49all this news started dropping. It's
13:51it's like there's fake slabs out there
13:53and I'm a I'm a consignment seller. I
13:56don't handle the cards myself. They go
13:57through Fanatics, but I've always kind
13:59of assumed that like Fanatics knew what
14:00they were doing. I always kind of have
14:02assumed they were doing their due
14:03diligence and clearly in hindsight like
14:05not enough. Uh but anyways, here's a
14:09$384,000
14:11legendary collection Gyarados that I
14:13sold on consignment and it has the
14:17bumpers that you don't want to see. It
14:19has the rounded bumpers. So I watched
14:21this rattle video. I hear this news fake
14:23cards. I paid this consigner out last
14:25week. $384,000.
14:2895% of $384,000. So, the first thing my
14:31mind goes to is like I might lose more
14:34than a million dollars. Like, like worst
14:36case scenario, I've paid out consigners
14:38on a million dollars plus of fake cards
14:40and Fanatics is going to claw the money
14:41back from me. There's still so many
14:43things that we need to like wait and see
14:45what's going to happen. What is alt
14:46going to do? What is Fanatics going to
14:48do? GameStop power packs are affected by
14:51this.
14:52>> Uh, GameStop power packs run out of the
14:54PSA vault. So, it is confirmed. And I'm
14:57gonna scroll down, but uh another one of
14:59the um again, not a smoking gun, not a
15:02red flag, but but this one doesn't even
15:04have it. If you scan a QR code, if you
15:07scan this QR code right here, don't go
15:10to the URL, but if you scan the QR code
15:12and you look at the text string, let me
15:14let me see if I can do this quickly on
15:15my phone. If you scan this and you go
15:18and look at the text string, if it ends
15:20in um if it ends in back slash PSA,
15:26that's a no. No, that's bad. Um let me
15:29screenshot this quick.
15:31Wait, that's not going to work.
15:36>> That uh
15:38>> Oh, it did work.
15:38>> Okie T's guy, if you want to pull up his
15:40Instagram story, he has it.
15:42>> He He's got Yeah, he's got a bunch of
15:44them. He's He's been one that I've been
15:45following, but here it is. So when I um
15:47when I pull that up, it just shows the
15:50cert number. I don't know if that's
15:52>> That's better for a second. There you
15:53go. Make your
15:54>> But yeah, if if it ends in backslash and
15:59it Yeah, right here. If it ends in or
16:01forward slash PSA, again, I don't think
16:04that's a smoking gun. I don't think
16:05that's a guaranteed red flag, but it's
16:07not good. So basically, it's really
16:10weird the way the PSA catalog works. If
16:13you go to the URL, your browser will add
16:17the forward slashpsa. So if you navigate
16:20through the QR code to theert website,
16:23it will always say forward/psa. But you
16:26need to look at the string that the QR
16:28code reads. Don't follow the link, just
16:31read the link. And if the link reads
16:34with the forward slash PSA, that is a
16:36bad sign. If you have yellow bumpers,
16:40it's slightly more likely that it's
16:42fake, but it's not guaranteed because a
16:44little bit more lore on this card. My
16:46consigner, he's been around for a long
16:48time. I I I didn't really It wouldn't
16:50have been a nefarious thing, but it's
16:52like, oh man, did did this guy buy from
16:54someone who got cooked and then I end up
16:56getting cooked because of it. Uh, this
16:58guy has a YouTube video of him opening
17:00the card from a pack nine years ago. and
17:03he has a YouTube video nine years ago of
17:05him getting the PSA return where he got
17:07this PSA 10.
17:08>> So like this card is good. This card is
17:11fine. But um
17:13>> that doesn't mean anything though
17:16cuz like the card there there's real
17:18copies of these cards out there. That
17:21could be that could be the fake copy of
17:22the card though.
17:25>> Which one? I mean I mean
17:26>> I'm not saying it is, but I'm saying
17:29what's it matter that he has a video of
17:31it being opened and slabbed and sold and
17:34all that because like there there's a
17:36fake made up that story is what you're
17:37saying
17:38>> with the exact search number.
17:40>> Well, this one I don't think there is.
17:42Presumably not, but Ryan's Cardhouse
17:44sold one. Ryan's Cardhouse sold the same
17:46card for 200 grand
17:48>> that um that ended up being one of the
17:51fake ones that ended up being affected.
17:53Yeah.
17:53>> And and again, like this one doesn't
17:55even have the QR code. And the the scary
17:58thing about this too, uh, one of the big
18:01tells on a lot of these is the fugitive
18:03ink technology, which I I've always like
18:06I've heard those words before. I kind of
18:07knew what they meant, but you need to
18:09zoom in really close. So, if you zoom in
18:12really close on the newers,
18:14this one's been reholdered. So, so these
18:17blue wavy lines, they're not blue wavy
18:19lines. They're very, very small, like
18:22micro dots. And if you zoom in with a
18:24loop, I've got my handy dandy loop here.
18:26If you look in really closely with a
18:28loop, it's just a bunch of tiny white
18:30dots. And the whole idea behind the
18:32fugitive ink uh dots is that if someone
18:36uses acetone, they can wash away all the
18:38words on the label. And and that's been
18:40verified. Grimer shared a story. Like,
18:43you can wash away all the words on a
18:44label. So, the reason PSA came up with
18:46this is that to prevent someone from
18:50washing away the cert number and then
18:52putting a new C number that isn't going
18:54to match the card that's actually in
18:55there. But, uh, I think that's what
18:57they're doing. And if you look really
18:59closely and you look at the dots on a
19:02real slab, which unfortunately I I don't
19:04even know that Fanatics has the
19:05resolution to see it. I mean, you can
19:07see it here better than you can see it
19:08on Alt or eBay a lot of the times. But,
19:11um, yeah, what what they were doing is
19:14they they were washing away the whole
19:15label, reprinting a new label. The blue
19:18dots weren't blue dots. They were just
19:20blue wavy lines. People vibe checked it
19:23and it passed the vibe check. Cuz what
19:24they were doing, they were using, I
19:26think they were using real slabs. Do you
19:28remember a couple years ago that whole
19:30drama where like people were getting
19:31their subs back and you could just open
19:33the slab?
19:34>> Mhm. They were they were using those
19:36slabs that didn't have the frosted edges
19:38is kind of what's generally accepted, I
19:40think. And then they were using real
19:41cards. And one issue, oh well, hey, if
19:44it's a 10, it's a 10 and you should be
19:45able to know, right? So, this is a card
19:47if uh and I should do this, too. Let me
19:50um let me open another tab quick, but
19:53but this is a card
19:56PSART lookup.
19:59And I I'm going to show you what is
20:02dangerous about PSA graded cards. We
20:06know that there are some tens out there
20:08that are not truly tens. So like, oh,
20:11hey, you could just check to verify the
20:13card is uh the card is like an actual 10
20:17that deserves it. Well, this is a 10.
20:20And I I went to PSA's website and I'm
20:22like, damn, thank you. Like, thank you
20:24very much. I don't know why I can't zoom
20:26in anymore. Some of these sites suck and
20:27you can't really zoom in much anymore.
20:29But anyways, look look at that white
20:31corner.
20:32>> Mhm.
20:33>> Look at that white at the top. This is a
20:36PSA 10 that I consign sold for $384,000.
20:41>> I paid it out on Wednesday. This I mean
20:43I'm I'm going to say this now because
20:44the sales over the consigners paid out.
20:47This is not a 10 yet it is a 10 and it's
20:50sold for a 10 price because that's the
20:52market we live in. But one thing that's
20:54great is that this has been relabbed.
20:57This was graded long ago in the in the
21:0020 million searchs and it originally
21:02wouldn't have had the fugitive ink
21:03technology. It originally wouldn't have
21:05had PSA scans, but since somebody
21:07relabbed it now, it has it. And we know
21:10that this is the one because of the
21:12whitening here and the whitening here
21:14and if you look for other little things
21:15like it, it has it all. The scan matches
21:17the card. But uh what's the scariest in
21:20my opinion at least is uh is these two
21:23certs that don't have the fugitive
21:26technology.
21:28And
21:30I think like like
21:32here's one right here. This is only
21:34worth a couple grand and it was a gift
21:35years ago. I I don't plan on ever
21:36selling it. But like this card, it
21:39doesn't have PSA scans on the website.
21:42It's worth thousands of dollars and it's
21:45probably dumb of me to show the suit
21:46right now, but like what's to prevent
21:49someone from getting a PSA 9 of this
21:51card, cracking it out, putting it into a
21:54slab, and then sending it into PSA to to
21:58get it reholder. And
22:00>> it's it's your terrible webcam not being
22:02able to focus on the certain number.
22:03That's what it is. I I I think the
22:05biggest thing keeping people from doing
22:07it is like because one, these labels
22:10exist in the wild, like plentiful. I
22:12mean, you could buy a you you could buy
22:14a $10 card PSA 7 whatever garbage that
22:18was graded 15 years ago.
22:19>> And so these labels exist everywhere.
22:22These labels could, I think, easily be
22:24washed and then reprinted whatever on
22:26them that you wanted. I think the big
22:28bottleneck for that and I hope because I
22:30I talked to a few people earlier tonight
22:32about it. I think the bottleneck for
22:34that would be getting the slabs because
22:36what what a lot of people again this was
22:38not perfect science. This was not uh
22:41this was not like a guaranteed thing but
22:44the big discrepancy was that you were
22:46having
22:48old cert numbers in new PSA slabs that
22:53didn't have scans on the website.
22:54Another layer to that that's really
22:57scary. There are some legitimate cards
22:59with all the new security features that
23:01were reholdered in the past few years in
23:04the time where PSA was um was uh
23:07scanning slabs that didn't get scanned.
23:10Like why and how would PSA relab a card
23:13and and not get it scanned? But there
23:16are examples.
23:16>> You could have just slipped through and
23:18not get scanned.
23:19>> But but like you're an authentication
23:22company.
23:23>> You have to scan the card. Like you have
23:25like these people are making $20 an
23:28hour. Are they really that concerned
23:30about your cards?
23:31>> And one of the scariest things about all
23:33this too is like the the 20 million sir
23:35era was 10 years ago. And Gary has
23:38talked about this at length king
23:40Pokemon. He graded 80 plus of the PSA 10
23:45base for Charizards with with E- Birdman
23:48for 5 to 10 bucks a card and they
23:50weren't scanning cards and they didn't
23:52have the fugitive ink technology and
23:53then yada yada yada and so on. It's
23:56scary how much I mean they they graded a
23:59card for five bucks that at the time was
24:01worth a few hundred bucks. Now it's
24:02worth over a million dollars and now
24:04you've got all this hundreds of millions
24:06billions of dollars of liability because
24:08back then they didn't really care. And
24:09here's Rainbow Jim saying she sold the
24:12real one to the person who made the
24:13Reddit post. His cop is 100% real. She
24:15still has a submission forms. Uh yeah,
24:18like there's a lot of layers. One ironic
24:21thing, too, again, it was presumably a
24:25PSA 9 put inside of a case. One one
24:28question that we don't know yet is did
24:30they recolor them? Did they do something
24:32to make the cards look cleaner? cuz this
24:35card, the fake Dragonite card, was so
24:37clean looking that it got a top 30% eye
24:40appeal designation by fanatics.
24:43>> So, they looked at it close enough to
24:45give it a top 30% I appeal designation,
24:47but they didn't look at it close enough
24:49to to realize that it was fake. Scary
24:51thing, too, like this is all still
24:53developing as we're live. Uh, Fanatics
24:56is like sending a bunch of these cards
24:59to PSA because because they looked at
25:01them closer and they still think they're
25:03real.
25:04Um I I mean the two Dragonites I I've
25:07seen other theories where maybe PSA
25:10issued the same sir accidentally to two
25:13cards that seems like
25:17>> I'm not saying it's impossible but it
25:18seems extremely unlikely. It seems more
25:21likely that there's
25:22>> exact same card. What are the chances of
25:24that?
25:24>> Yeah. And and yeah like this was in the
25:27very early times where PFM was saying
25:29this. I I I don't know exactly where PFM
25:31lands on all this now, but uh yeah,
25:33here's some of Poke 10's stories. There
25:36were the indents, there were the dots,
25:37there were the marks that like all the
25:38different things people were going
25:39through as this was developing
25:40yesterday. Uh but where we've got to now
25:43>> I don't like the plastic argument. I
25:45like the label better. The plastic there
25:48is that that's just
25:50>> there's so much
25:52>> Yes, it's it is helpful, but there's
25:54just so much variance.
25:56>> Yeah.
26:00But yeah, uh, this video scared me. I
26:04Rattles made another video since and I
26:06haven't watched it yet, but but my
26:08$384,000
26:10Gyarados sale with the rounded bumpers
26:12was very frightening for a short bit
26:14there and then uh we've found more
26:18information. They found more
26:19information, I guess. But uh yeah, where
26:23it kind of lands is that it's real cards
26:27potentially recolored, potentially maybe
26:29not, that are being resically welded
26:33into newer PSA slabs with
26:37real labels that are just being acetone
26:40washed or IPA washed and then reprinted
26:43on them. So, I I think the the moral of
26:45the story, the biggest tell out of all
26:47this is the is the fug uh fugitive inc
26:51blue dots. But again, if that's the
26:54biggest tell, you have 20 or 30 million
26:57searchs that didn't have that. They
26:58didn't have scans and they didn't have
27:00the fugitive inc technology. Those are
27:02the scariest ones to me. And
27:08let let me see if there was more. Yeah,
27:10there there was so much going on here.
27:11We're only on post 60 of 260, but uh
27:15the first one found was on Fanatics.
27:19There are multiple on Fanatics. There
27:21are multiple on alt. There are multiple
27:23in GameStop power packs, which is in the
27:26PSA vault. PSA graded cards.
27:30I assume
27:31>> that's the worst part is uh they're
27:34they're in the in the PS
27:35>> PSA vault is wild because the PSA vault
27:38and I know Poke Tens was talking about
27:40this on Instagram if you follow him. He
27:42he was saying like oh it's not that
27:43massive of a deal because blah blah blah
27:45whatever but uh and again there is a
27:50team Aqua's Kyogre EX out there. Not the
27:52one that I sold but there's one out
27:54there that is confirmed fake. There's
27:56one out there confirmed fake. different
27:57certain number, but uh very very scary.
28:01And now now that all the eyes are on
28:03this, you're seeing more people come out
28:05like saying, "Hey, this card says it was
28:07sold six months ago on Fanatics all
28:09wherever. I've had this in my collection
28:11for 5 years and it's the same certain
28:13number." And so so now more people are
28:15aware of it. More people are looking.
28:17We've got a lot of AI things cooking on
28:18it. It's uh it's absolutely crazy
28:21though. Um
28:23but yeah, this is where PFM 20 hours
28:26ago. So last evening he posted about the
28:29whole forward sla in the QR codes.
28:33Again, that's not like a guaranteed
28:35thing, but it's not a good thing to
28:37find. Uh
28:41trying to see what else there is.
28:46But one one big thing out of all this
28:48drama when the CT scanning happened,
28:51it's like let's not just take pitchforks
28:53and let's just not rable rable rable.
28:55What do we do? If anything, what what do
28:57we do with this information? If
28:59anything, uh the companies are doing
29:02what they should. I've heard that both
29:04Fanatics and Alt are shipping big
29:06batches of cards to to PSA to have them
29:09authenticated, reauthenticated,
29:11verified, whatever. That uh that that is
29:13an obvious thing that has to happen. If
29:15you have slabs in your possession,
29:17whether they're yours or consigners or
29:19what, like whatever it is, like check
29:22your cards, read this thread, look for
29:24the dots, get out your loop, buy a $10
29:27loop on Amazon. My mine's got a little
29:29light on it. Pretty fancy, pretty handy.
29:32Um, but like
29:36aside from my consignment sales, I don't
29:38own these cards. I I'm I'm not really
29:40affected in that way. Uh, if I had them
29:44though, and I guess I'll I'll pause in
29:46case you have anything else to say
29:48before I start getting into like what
29:50would I do with this information?
29:53>> No, I'm I'm good. I'm good. Um, yeah. I
29:56just I just wonder what what all these
29:58companies are going to do about uh
30:00refunding everyone.
30:02>> That's we'll we'll get into that in a
30:04bit because that's that's an unknown.
30:06And there's a lot of like middleman
30:08consigners who are affected. Uh, and I I
30:10guess I'll I'll give props where props
30:12is due to the few people who have come
30:14out and like basically said like, "Hey,
30:16one of my sales was affected. I've
30:18already refunded or I'm going to refund
30:20the people." I think a lot of people
30:22know R.J.'s collectibles on Instagram.
30:24Young kid selling all kinds of crazy
30:26stuff. I think he recently bought a PSA
30:2810 Gold Star Rayquaza. Hopefully, it was
30:30a real one. I I don't even know. Uh, but
30:33he he refunded somebody already. Kanto
30:35Shark was affected. He uh he already
30:38said he's going to be refunding
30:39somebody. Pallet Town Pallet Town was
30:41affected by this. I I think the card is
30:43literally arriving today or tomorrow. I
30:44don't think they have the card yet, but
30:46just based off the the pictures in the
30:49DMs going into the sale, like that's
30:51already known to be a fake as well. Fake
30:53sales on Fanatics, fake sales on Alt.
30:56It's uh it's wild. It is absolutely
30:59crazy. Um Jesse Pang is going to be
31:03making a video about it soon. He bought
31:05a $660,000
31:07PSA 10 Call of Legends Rayquaza, the SL
31:10uh subset in Call of Legends. He uh I
31:14think he bought it through Secret Mudkip
31:15on Instagram, another one of these
31:17Instagram consigners. And
31:21yeah, it's it's just wild. Like uh that
31:24one's I don't know if it's tougher, if
31:26it's easier. I don't know if it's
31:27tougher or easier given that it wasn't
31:30within a platform like Alt or Fanatics
31:33where maybe Alter Fanatic steps up. May
31:35maybe Alter Fanatic says, "Hey, uh, Dan,
31:38you can signed or whether it's me or who
31:41whoever else can sign these cards." Uh,
31:43and reading the terms and conditions of
31:45these various websites, they all have a
31:48lot of lawyer speak and it seems like
31:50they almost carve out they almost carve
31:52out their obligation towards
31:54authentication. They they basically just
31:56say like, "Hey, you need to make your
31:58own opinions on authenticity. We we
32:01don't really do that. We rely on the
32:03third party graders." And at the end of
32:05the day, this isn't a PSA problem. This
32:07is a I mean, PSA is a victim as well.
32:10PSA has a bad actor resealing their
32:13slabs. Um I mean, Alton Fanatics are
32:16victims here. You you could argue that
32:18incompetence, whatever, ignorance. You
32:21could argue that they're not not that
32:22they have no um
32:27>> no uh
32:30trying to think of the right word.
32:31Definitely don't want to use too many of
32:32the wrong words here. I'm not saying
32:34they don't have any or whatever.
32:36>> Much over reliance on one company like
32:39the everyone's relying on PSA.
32:43>> It's not even just relying on PSA. It
32:45it's literally relying on things outside
32:46of their
32:47>> hands case and assumes, okay, it's
32:49legit,
32:50>> which that's not relying on PSA
32:52>> looking at the card.
32:53>> That that's relying on almost nothing.
32:55That that's relying on a hospital band
32:57in a piece of plastic.
32:57>> Well, yeah, but it's a PSA case. So,
33:00everyone's relying on that that first
33:03step of being graded.
33:04>> This one too. 1.6 or$ 1.7 million
33:08Tyloian 17's private sale
33:11>> fake card. Like I guess it's not 100%
33:14guaranteed yet. It's going to PSA and
33:16it's being checked, but like presumably
33:18by all things that we know that is a
33:20fake card. Uh
33:23absolutely crazy. Um
33:26trying to see if there was anything else
33:27to add, but yeah, people looking at the
33:30the font, people looking at the spacing,
33:33the lettering, the the dash, and the
33:35spacing around the dash. There there's a
33:36lot of different yellow flags. And then
33:38I think the biggest definitive red flag
33:41is the fugitive ink dots. But like
33:43again, and here here's a Grimer did a
33:47story like there's the fugitive ink.
33:49There's acetone washing away the cert
33:51number. And if you were to do that, you
33:54would have to reprint. And again, I'm
33:57not like a printing expert. I don't know
33:59how expensive it would be to print blue
34:02dots in a wavy line. I think there's
34:04like UV ink somewhere there, too. So
34:07maybe there's UV tests that could be
34:08done. I see people talking about
34:10nanochips in each slabs. Um again, like
34:14would the nanochip have proprietary
34:16technology? Is it not something that
34:18could just be copied by someone else?
34:20Like if you're talking about like an
34:21RFID tag, I I don't think there's
34:23anything proprietary there. I I think
34:26someone else could just get the original
34:28slab and then duplicate said slab,
34:30right? Maybe they'd have to have a slab
34:32in hand first before uh duplicating it.
34:34But it's uh
34:37it's all kind of nuts. And now getting
34:40to the point of like all the drama, all
34:42the all the information. I'm going to
34:45scroll through this quickly and and see
34:47if I see anything else more to share.
34:49But like what do you do with this
34:51information is what comes up next. Uh I
34:55know the first thing I did, I I took all
34:57the yellow flags. I took all the
34:58information that was out there and
35:01Thursdays are consigner paydays for me.
35:03I paid out over a hundred people a
35:05combined $1 million. And the last thing
35:07I wanted to do was pay someone out on a
35:10fake slab and then have fanatics take
35:12the money back from me later. So, I went
35:14through every sale that was above
35:16$50,000. And one by one, and I know a
35:18lot of people are setting up AI to to
35:20check all these things, and I had a
35:22couple people like cross-checking my own
35:24sales as as I was doing that manually.
35:27Um,
35:29nothing I sold above 50 seems suspect,
35:32but like did I sell any for five or 10
35:34or 20 or 30? Like I I I I could have a
35:37$100,000 potential liability here. I I
35:39don't even know yet. Uh so first thing
35:42is like check everything in your
35:44possession. Check everything that you're
35:45potentially buying. If you're buying
35:47something through a middleman, uh,
35:49ensure the middleman man is, uh, is up
35:52to speed and educated on all this before
35:54they receive the card and then call it
35:56good and and send your funds away and
35:58then you lose them because a lot of
36:00these things came from the Netherlands.
36:01Apparently, a lot of them are crypto
36:03deals out of the Netherlands where they
36:05used a a trusted middleman. They they
36:08used somebody like like a a Kanto Shark.
36:11They used a Pallet Town. They used a
36:13moving Pokemon, Padrino's Grails. the
36:15there are so many of these different
36:16names that have popped up in the past
36:18several months and yeah so the the out
36:22of the EU out of the Netherlands they'd
36:24send the fake slab to the middleman and
36:27the buyer would send the money to the
36:29middleman the the middleman would get
36:31the card in hand oh yeah looks good
36:34doing whatever authenticity check they
36:37do likely very little um I mean frankly
36:40and people were using this yesterday a
36:43lot to [ __ ] on fanatics And people are
36:45using it to [ __ ] on Fanatic, [ __ ] on all
36:47this stuff.
36:50And I'm saying this, I don't think I was
36:53affected. And I I've seen some people
36:55I've seen some people
36:58dancing on the grave of another company,
37:00dancing on the grave of another
37:01consigner. Basically, as if they were
37:04checking, as if they would have caught
37:05this, as if they would have known.
37:07>> Nobody would have known.
37:09>> I'm saying this I'm saying this as
37:11someone who I don't think I sold one.
37:13That is not through competence. That is
37:16through sheer dumb luck. I openly admit
37:19I openly apologize to any consigner like
37:22and they weren't even affected. I wasn't
37:24even affected. But like I was asleep at
37:27the wheel for the few people who got
37:29lucky and didn't get affected by it that
37:31are like victory lapping. Oh, I'm so I
37:34mean as a good businessman that's what I
37:35should do. Consign with catch them all
37:37collectibles today. I didn't get got. We
37:39didn't get got. I'm so good. I'm so
37:41smart. I'm so cooler than everyone else.
37:43I'm not saying that. I was lucky.
37:46Fanatics was not as lucky. They're way
37:48larger scale. Alt was not as lucky.
37:50They're way larger scale. The PSA vault,
37:53GameStop power packs, the PSA vault has
37:58fake PSA slabs inside of them. Like that
38:01is how big this is. So, anybody trying
38:04to take like higher superiority and and
38:08I'll carve out I'll carve out a tiny
38:10disclaimer. There might be a company or
38:13two out there who are so smart, who are
38:15so good uh that like didn't miss one and
38:19couldn't have missed any. I am skeptical
38:22on that though. Uh
38:23>> I don't because you would have heard
38:24about it. I I feel like you now you
38:27definitely would have heard about that.
38:29>> I I I did see Golden post in a couple
38:32Golden people post that they caught XYZ.
38:35And one of my questions there is like if
38:38really good fakes were out there and a
38:40platform caught them a week ago, a month
38:43ago, they could have prevented millions
38:46of dollars of transactions. If like why
38:48did we need that Reddit post? Imagine a
38:50different world where that Reddit poster
38:52didn't post.
38:54>> Would we have gone on for two more
38:56weeks, two more months? How long would
38:58we have gone on? I I might have been on
39:00the hook for a million dollars, more
39:02than a million dollars. Um,
39:05so my biggest thing there, because I've
39:07I've heard some anecdotes already. Oh,
39:09well, we caught XYZ. We did this. Like,
39:12>> why didn't you say anything,
39:14>> especially if you were a big auction
39:15house, be on the lookout for these
39:17fakes. Talk with PSA more. Have PSA
39:20check the whole damn vault. If you call
39:22them, one thing that I heard too is
39:24Golden sends all their high-end things
39:26to PSA authenticity. How are these in
39:29the goddamn PSA vault? How are these in
39:32GameStop power packs? That's PSA
39:34authenticity as well. Well, that's
39:36Delaware and the other ones, New Jersey
39:38or California. PSA authenticity should
39:41be PSA authenticity. If if you're
39:43telling me that their PSA vault
39:44authenticity is worse than New Jersey or
39:47California, that's concerning. That's a
39:50problem. Like, like what how do you say
39:52that as like uh oh, it's all fine
39:54because that that's just Delaware.
39:55That's just a PSA vault with half a
39:57billion dollars worth of cards in it.
39:59Um, and and one one interesting thing,
40:02if you buy a high-end card on on eBay,
40:04it goes through the authenticity
40:06guarantee.
40:07>> It'll be Have we heard of anyone who has
40:09had a fake on eBay?
40:11>> No. The Ryan's Cardhouse one that he
40:13sold, it had Legendary Collection in the
40:16name,
40:16>> so it skipped authenticity guarantee.
40:18>> What a what a terrible system. We've
40:20known that for years and it's still
40:22happening. Mhm.
40:23>> But anyways, like I I've not heard of
40:25any anecdote that's actually gone
40:26through authenticity guarantee,
40:28>> but I think it's a different
40:30>> Well, it's a different form.
40:32>> Got to be
40:33>> it's a different form of authenticity
40:34guarantee, but the PSA vault, the PSA
40:38vault, when you buy a car from the PSA
40:40vault, it doesn't go to authenticity
40:42guarantee. It's already been guaranteed
40:44into the vault. So, like
40:47I I've I've heard people walking that
40:50fine line, walking that tight rope of
40:52like, well, I mean, eBay is the best
40:54because well, not if you buy off the PSA
40:57vault eBay because that doesn't go
40:59through authenticity guarantee. Not if
41:00you buy Legendary Collection cards
41:02because they're too incompetent to make
41:03sure that goes through authenticity
41:04guarantee. Like, what are we talking
41:06about? Um, I take blame. I have sold
41:09millions of dollars of cards in the past
41:10few weeks. I would have been duped only
41:13not for sheer dumb luck. And like it
41:18it's just it comes across so bad when
41:21you have people claiming superiority
41:24when like I think everyone was asleep at
41:26the wheel. And I I've said this over the
41:28past couple months like I look around
41:31and it's just like 100,000 million
41:33500,000 200. Six months ago none of this
41:36was a thing and it it just like
41:38happened. I mentioned in Discord
41:40recently. I mentioned in my live stream
41:41recently I've lost sleep. I've lost
41:44sleep on some nights like like what is
41:46going on? What is going on in the hobby
41:48right now? And everyone just like
41:51everyone is just like generally
41:52accepting it. And and it's just like
41:54this is what the hobby this is what
41:55these cards are worth now. They should
41:57have been worth this all along. Uh this
41:59has all been crazy and I I felt like a
42:03crazy person and I think um I think I
42:06was blinded a little bit. I I I was I
42:08was doing what I could to go out and
42:10find six figure cards to consign. I
42:12wanted that juicy consignment
42:14commission.
42:15>> Uh it it's not a I mean it's it's
42:17literally less than 1%. But I mean
42:21anyone who's good at math can can figure
42:22out how those numbers scale on six
42:24figure cards.
42:25>> Uh
42:27I was asleep at the wheel. Alt was
42:28asleep at the wheel. Fanatics was asleep
42:30at the wheel. PSA Vault was asleep at
42:32the wheel. eBay authenticity guarantee.
42:36Maybe aside from the vault was fine, but
42:38like maybe it's not called the same
42:40thing, but whatever the hell PSA vault,
42:42GameStop power pack guarantee is, they
42:44were asleep at the wheel, too. And that
42:46is damn concerning. And I I've seen a
42:48couple in the past hour or two. I've
42:51seen a couple posts in Discord from from
42:53sales that were from July on cards that
42:56aren't even 10 grand on cards that are
42:59like a few thousand dollars. Have they
43:01been doing this for a year? Have they
43:03been doing this like on cheap cards to
43:05to get their confidence and then it went
43:07fine for several months and and now they
43:09just the past couple months they started
43:10doing six figure cards? I have no idea.
43:13We don't know how big this is, but like
43:15it's bigger than one Dragonite on one
43:17Fanatic Premier block. That that we know
43:19for sure.
43:20>> Oh yeah.
43:20>> Um
43:21>> very scary.
43:24Um um
43:27>> and yeah, I'm I'm going to share some
43:28more things because like one thing that
43:31you brought up that we do need to
43:32address is like and these are all our
43:35opinions and speculation and blah blah
43:39please don't sue all all those things.
43:41But like
43:44if you want to pause, if you want to
43:45read these things, if you want to go to
43:46the E4 thread, fanatics collect not
43:48endorsed and has not verified the
43:50accuracy or reliability of any opinion
43:52or statement made by any third party. Uh
43:55you will agree that you will conduct
43:56your own independent investigation into
43:58an item's character, quantity, features,
44:00condition, authenticity, history,
44:02potential value, and other attributes
44:03and are not relying on any statement
44:05made by Fanatics Collect, any employer
44:06representative of Fanatics Collect or
44:08any person or entity in deciding to bid
44:10or purchase an item.
44:13>> Wild,
44:13>> I'm not a lawyer and all these things
44:15and I'm I'm sure every platform has
44:17their own things there. But like I I
44:21hope and I pray and I I I talk with
44:23fanatics in my talks with fanatics. I'm
44:26going to beg them like please please
44:28please
44:31take like take care of it. Billionaires
44:35are involved there. This is not to the
44:37tune of billions of dollars. There are
44:39people whose livelihoods are at stake.
44:43There are people who have seven figure
44:46liabilities that don't have seven
44:48figures liquid in their bank account to
44:49solve that situation. Uh I hope that PSA
44:53comes out with a very large statement
44:56quite soon. I I'm I'm not going to hold
44:57it against them if it's not today, if
44:59it's not tomorrow. This is massive. But
45:02by late next week, PSA should be saying
45:05something. By by mid late next week,
45:07Fanatics all should be saying something.
45:09And the thing that they should be
45:10saying, we messed up and we're going to
45:13change what and if they change the
45:16dealer program, if they tighten it down,
45:18if they um obviously adding all the
45:22safeguards and adding every everyone in
45:24the building should have one of these
45:25and be looking at cards and whether you
45:27have to actually do it with a loop or
45:28whether you you scan it and feed it
45:30through an AI that looks for the dots
45:31and looks for everything. Uh, but
45:34everyone was asleep at the wheel and I'm
45:37glad it happened today and not 3 months
45:39from now or 6 months from now or
45:41something because it would have been a
45:42lot bigger, a lot worse. Uh, but yeah,
45:46this is this is not nuts.
45:48>> I I think it's similar to it's it's not
45:52the same, but it's similar to the beta
45:55test cards.
45:57Um I think would you would you agree
46:00like like gold at the time golden um and
46:03all the whatever other companies they
46:05didn't want it back
46:07>> the beta cards were very different
46:09because CGC authenticated them
46:12>> see I I think the those were fully on
46:15CGC and as far as I understand NDAs were
46:18signed and you can't hear from anybody
46:19that was directly affected but uh as far
46:22as I understand CGC made everyone whole
46:24you you had your Z&G emporium who came
46:26out
46:27hole
46:28>> cuz CGC authenticated them. PSA did not
46:31authenticate these cards. PSA is a
46:33victim and I I'm I'm someone who's
46:35outspoken.
46:36>> Similar.
46:36>> I'm no authenticated those. How do you
46:40think it's similar? PSA didn't
46:42>> I'm not saying the cards themselves. I'm
46:44saying the auction house is selling the
46:46cards. I think they're going to pull try
46:48and pull the same that someone else
46:51should have to take the blame.
46:53>> I hope that's not the case, but I I
46:56think it's
46:57I don't know.
46:57>> They can't do it to PSA. They They could
46:59do it to the customer. They could say,
47:01"Per our terms and conditions, you are
47:03in charge of all this." Like,
47:04>> "Oh, if they do that, that's going to be
47:07super dark." I I I hope they do not do
47:10that. Um
47:12>> that would be so negative EV with with
47:15respect to future earnings potential in
47:17the space. Like I I think they have to
47:18bite the bullet. I think they have to
47:20pay however many millions of dollars
47:22fixes this. Um but like will they? I
47:26don't know. I I I truly don't know. Uh I
47:30I hope between PSA or sorry between But
47:34what and I'm very critical of PSA. I
47:36have been over the past 12 years. One
47:38thing that they dropped the ball on that
47:39is unsolvable.
47:41PSA authenticated 30 million cards
47:46without fugitive ink on the label. PSA
47:49authenticated
47:51um Oh, this one's funny. It's a Rudy
47:53promo, but this one doesn't have scans
47:55on the PSA website. I don't think I
47:57don't think they started the scans. Let
47:58me let me search this one manually. I I
48:00don't want to speak the wrong thing, but
48:02uh PSA lookup. I I think PSA started
48:05doing the scans in like the 69
48:10million 65 million somewhere in that
48:12vicinity. Yeah, this one doesn't have
48:14one. So, so my Rudy really big feet. I'm
48:17pretty sure this is the real Rudy really
48:20big feet. I'm pretty sure I didn't get
48:22scammed here. I I actually graded this
48:23one myself, but uh
48:27PSA their culpability in this lies a
48:31little bit in the fact is culpability
48:34the wrong word? I need I need to make
48:35sure I don't get sued here. The state of
48:37deserving blame or being responsible for
48:39wrongdoing, moral failure or a criminal
48:41act? PSA did not commit a criminal act.
48:44I I'm not saying that. But culpability
48:46says I I think this is a moral failure.
48:48I I think this is a moral failure by PSA
48:51in and and to be fair to CGC CGC every
48:54card they graded has a scan. You you go
48:57and you look at the scan and you look
48:58for the white dot because they're newer
49:01to
49:01>> they're newer.
49:02>> Scanning was a lot harder to do 30 years
49:04ago to be fair to PSA. But when you when
49:09you put your reputation on the line
49:11slabbing a card and your company
49:13succeeds and 30 years later, your
49:16company exists,
49:18you've got to own up to the things you
49:20did 30 years ago. I mean, that that's
49:22just a simple matterof fact thing. And
49:25you know it, I know it. Everyone knows
49:27it. 5, 10, 15, 15, 20 years ago, they
49:31didn't give a [ __ ] about Pokemon. They
49:34encapsulated these things in mass. They
49:36graded tons of all whitening all over
49:38PSA 10s cards for5 to$10 grading fees
49:41that are now worth500,000
49:43to a million plus dollars.
49:46>> We are insane. We are insane as a hobby.
49:49It is not entirely PSA's fault that the
49:52cards are worth as much as they are. And
49:53and frankly like if if you know me, if
49:55you followed me for a long time, you
49:57know that I've never agreed with the
49:59third party the the market value that we
50:01attribute to these 10 premiums. It's
50:03always been insane. This demonstrates
50:06partially why it's so insane because
50:09like that team magma team aqua or sorry
50:12yeah that that not team magma team aqua
50:14that double crisis full art kyogre that
50:16I sold
50:18slab that a hundred times it's an eight
50:20it's an eight most times it's a nine
50:22it's a seven it's it's one out of a
50:24hundred times if you're lucky it's a 10
50:26and because it's a 10 it's worth
50:27$350,000 more insane we are an insane
50:32hobby together
50:34Why older?
50:36>> But but it's what do you do? What what
50:39do you do with your PSA? Hopefully they
50:42say and the thing that scares me the
50:44most and and I hope I'm wrong here, but
50:46like the label's relatively easy. You
50:49you could you could wash that label and
50:51reprint whatever and maybe PSA has
50:53special ink and maybe they would know. I
50:55I hope they would, but I kind of doubt
50:57it. And
51:00cards are easy to get in mass. So like
51:03anyone can get a eight or nine quality
51:05looking card that would pass for a 10
51:07because because the the variance on a 10
51:09is so high. So like the cards are
51:11everywhere. The the labels are
51:13everywhere. I I literally I think most
51:15of these are CGC, but like I'm I'm a
51:17collector.
51:19One thing that I collect is the labels
51:22of cards that I crack out.
51:24Oh, they kind of all went in a clump.
51:26They were supposed to rain down, but
51:27they all went in a clump. Um, so labels
51:30exist plentiful. I'm not going to do any
51:33nefarious things with these, but like a
51:34lot of people have a lot of labels
51:36kicking around.
51:37>> Yeah.
51:37>> And so, so the cards are there. The
51:40labels are there.
51:42>> Hopefully people don't have these slabs
51:44in mass that are cleanly separated that
51:46they they can put cards into and put the
51:48labels into and reprint whatever they
51:49want in the label because the most risky
51:52thing, the scariest thing, and I I'm not
51:54a holder of these slabs. If I was, what
51:57happens if somebody makes a really good
51:59fake? The PSA vault has already been uh
52:03duped. We We all got
52:05>> Have they really Or is it just
52:07>> They're in GameStop POWER PACKS.
52:09>> I KNOW, BUT HOW CLOSELY are they looking
52:11at them?
52:13>> Well,
52:14>> I don't I don't think it's that I don't
52:16think I I think it's just negligence on
52:18everyone's part. Nobody
52:19>> authenticated looking at these cards.
52:21>> Where I'm going though, where I'm going,
52:23though. And this is uh this is only a
52:25couple grand. This is not a million
52:26dollars. Whatever. If someone imitates
52:29this card, if someone finds a nine,
52:32finds a label, prints this same
52:34information on it. Someone try. I dare
52:35you. I If someone imitates this card,
52:38say they sent the PSA before I do. Now,
52:42now what? The worst case nuclear
52:44scenario. I I hope it can't happen. I
52:47hope it never happens. But imagine
52:49someone sends this to PSA
52:53and they get it reholdered
52:55and they get the new label and they scan
52:58their copy. Now I have the fake and they
53:01have the real one.
53:04>> That is the that is the nuclear
53:06scenario. And and and you very casually
53:08saying, "Oh, who cares? Card made it
53:10into the GameStop vault." Like all it
53:12takes is is fooling. You don't and I
53:14said this earlier in office hours.
53:17You don't have to hit a bullseye to pass
53:19off a fake. You don't have to hit a
53:21bullseye. You only have to hit the dart
53:23board. The variance, we've already
53:25talked about it. The variance in these
53:26slabs manufacturing is so high. They
53:30didn't give a crap. They were buying
53:31these slabs for three cents a piece.
53:33They were encapsulating cards for $5 a
53:35piece. They didn't give a [ __ ] PSA,
53:37Pokemon cards, professional sports
53:39authenticator. Um, and now now you've
53:42got billions of dollars of collectibles
53:44in two cert slabs with no fugitive ink
53:47technology with no scans. And if someone
53:49beats you into PSA and that dummy
53:52employee clicks the button that says
53:55boop boop boop reholder, print the new
53:56label, scan the card, yours is fake and
54:00theirs is real. Mhm.
54:02>> And one thing that we know we can't use,
54:05we can't use actual card quality to
54:07determine who's is real because we know
54:10of of 125 PSA 10 base vers Charizards,
54:13how many of them would regrade tens if
54:14you cracked them out today?
54:16>> Not all of them.
54:17>> Like you can't say you can't say that's
54:20an eight. So So that one has to be the
54:22fake because it's it's it's not good
54:23enough quality. That's most the damn low
54:25pop cards aren't tens. Most low pop
54:28cards are inherently fundamentally not
54:30tens. They're just eights or nines that
54:32got lucky. So like what do you do? The
54:36and there are some scary answers to what
54:38you do.
54:40What's the first thing PSA might do?
54:43>> I don't I don't think I I I would say
54:45deactivate everything
54:47um or tell people to send in anything
54:50older. I I don't think that's an option,
54:52though. send in anything older and and
54:54we'll rehold it for free. And and then
54:57you send in your PSA 10 base for
54:58Charizard. It's worth a million dollars
55:01>> and they say that you mishandled it for
55:03the past 20 years. Yeah.
55:04>> And it's no longer a 10. Now it's a
55:07nine. Now it's an eight.
55:08>> I think I think that'd be a bigger mess
55:11than
55:13>> I I I I don't think I don't think there
55:15is a good right answer to that.
55:18>> There's no good right answer. They they
55:19might be faced with impossible decisions
55:21and and hopefully hopefully I'm
55:23overblowing this. But like Nick, there's
55:27fake cards in the PSA vault. The PSA
55:30vault.
55:32>> That's just There's not going to be now.
55:35That's just because nobody was looking
55:37at them.
55:37>> And and you know who else is hearing all
55:39this news? You know who else knows about
55:42the the blue dots and the QR codes and
55:45this and that. And right now, our single
55:47strongest way to identify a fake versus
55:49a real is the blue dots.
55:52>> Mhm.
55:53>> There's 30 million cards that don't have
55:55the blue dots.
55:57There's no QR code on this. The the two
56:00strongest things are the QR code, which
56:03the scammers will fix tomorrow, and the
56:05blue dots, which if they go off to the
56:07right cards, there's no damn blue dots.
56:10There's no QR code. The two strongest
56:12things. The 21s are stupid. They don't
56:14matter. I I have one card here that has
56:16like one LR on it. It doesn't even say
56:1821. Um,
56:21this is bad.
56:24>> Yeah. Yeah.
56:25>> And next thing, next thing. If I had $10
56:29million in twoert cards with no scans,
56:33with no fugitive ink technology, I would
56:36I would email PSA immediately. I would
56:39call them. I I would I would get to PSA.
56:41I would hate to do it. I I I don't like
56:44a lot of things about all grading and
56:46all the premiums and all the upcharges
56:47and all the everything. I would pay a
56:49lot of money to make my copies the real
56:51copies. Um, and it's kind of scary to
56:54think like at a grand enough scale at a
56:58grand enough scale if if if bad actors
57:01start targeting and have they already
57:04are are there already cards at PSA
57:07attempting to get reholdered that the
57:10the real owner of the original copy is
57:14not even in the hobby anymore. The cards
57:16the cards in their closet, the cards in
57:18their in their safe deposit box and they
57:20haven't looked at it in 10 years. Um
57:23the the odds of PSA they've already
57:26vaulted and authenticated these cards.
57:28The odds of PSA misauthenticating and
57:31rest slabbing uh a fake non zero. Maybe
57:36maybe they're not 90%. I I I don't think
57:38they're anywhere near that. But but if
57:40they're 1% if if the odds of them
57:43relabbing the wrong one and maybe that's
57:45on wave one of the the next batch of
57:46scammer cards. Uh it's scary. I don't
57:50own these cards. I'm not affected. But
57:52if I did, I would uh I would um I would
57:56get them reslabbed and I would get the
57:58fugitive ink technology and I I would
57:59get my card scanned to be real. I
58:02actually saw friend of the podcast,
58:04friend of another another podcast,
58:05Tetra, Tetra Ninja, you know him. Um
58:09>> he posted on Instagram a high-res of his
58:12Chansy base first PSA 10 kind of like
58:16victory lapping. Oh, all you new
58:18dummies. Newert. Oh,
58:20>> I don't I don't get that.
58:21>> That's I I I DM'd him. He read it. He I
58:24don't think he replied, but it's like
58:26>> you're taunting the scammers like like
58:29your card is the perfect candidate to be
58:32scammed.
58:32>> And if if they see this story and and
58:35and I I actually talked to some people
58:37earlier today, multiple people, one of
58:40two of them might be listening right now
58:41and they might be mad at me. He said,
58:42"Dan, you really shouldn't talk about
58:44this on YouTube tonight." Uh, and my
58:48whole thing last night, Scott PFM on E4,
58:52he said that he didn't know if he wanted
58:54to share the forward PSA thing. Uh,
58:57there there's a big argument to be made
58:59that you should share share it with PSA
59:01first. Only share it with PSA. Mind you,
59:04I did share this with PSA. All my
59:05concerns that I'm voicing right now, I
59:08sent an email. No, I I I sent I sent a
59:10DM to Nat Turner. Nat Turner reads his
59:12DMs. I probably should have sent an
59:14email, too, but I think Nat Turner will
59:16read his DM before uh PSA reads their
59:19emails. But anyways, I uh I raised my
59:21concerns. I uh I'm sure they're going to
59:24give you the corporate Speak answers,
59:26but like I don't trust in their ability
59:28to validate uh a nonfugitive insert. And
59:32hopefully this is overblown. Hopefully
59:34it's wrong. Hopefully slabs like this
59:37have some enough differences from newer
59:40slabs because again I think most of the
59:43the fakes so far have had the newer
59:46slabs that you could open with your
59:48hands.
59:49>> That's the other thing is how can you
59:51can you get like those slabs cuz those
59:54things crack so easily?
59:56>> The old ones
59:57>> the older slabs.
1:00:00So, so maybe
1:00:02>> is is that preventing it or like even
1:00:05like the paper is wavy. Um is are there
1:00:09other methods to know?
1:00:12Um
1:00:13>> hopefully hopefully there are but but
1:00:16again you don't have to hit a bullseye.
1:00:18You only have to hit the dart board. And
1:00:20the dart board is huge. We know the
1:00:23variance is huge. All these 21s this and
1:00:2521's that and bold and thin like the PSA
1:00:28logo. There's so many variants of
1:00:30everything. My eyes are
1:00:31>> That's Can you do like the beta test
1:00:34cards where you can look at it under a
1:00:37microscope and see dot patterns of when
1:00:40the labels were printed? Is that a
1:00:42thing?
1:00:43>> No, because these aren't um these aren't
1:00:45uh that style of printer. These aren't
1:00:47inkjet printers that are printing off
1:00:48the PSA labels. There could be something
1:00:50else. As far as I understand though, and
1:00:52I'm not an expert by any stretch of the
1:00:53imagination, I don't think there's going
1:00:55to be a a yellow dot code in these
1:00:57because they're not inkjet printers.
1:00:58They're they're label printers. The
1:01:00whatever these fancy things are, but um
1:01:03but yeah, there's people actively
1:01:06running clawed bots. Like here's one
1:01:09from weekly auction. Oh yeah, I'm not
1:01:10sharing anymore. Here's one from weekly
1:01:12auction 235.
1:01:15That was back in July.
1:01:20And at the time it was probably a couple
1:01:21thousand dollar promo. This promo is
1:01:23like 10 grand now or something. I think
1:01:24it it's super low pop. Uh but these
1:01:27things have been around for a minute.
1:01:30Um
1:01:35I I've always been of the opinion more
1:01:38information out to more people as soon
1:01:41as you have it. I uh and again I if I
1:01:45had these things
1:01:48here's like Ryan's courthouse announcing
1:01:49that he was going to pay the person back
1:01:51or whatever. They're out the $50,000
1:01:53deposit.
1:01:55But he here's one of the power pack
1:01:56ones. If if I was um if I was affected
1:02:00by this, if I own some of these high-end
1:02:02slabs, I would I would I would look into
1:02:05getting them reholdered very very soon
1:02:07because it's uh it's scary. And being a
1:02:11being a dealer with Fanatics, I am
1:02:14looking for a very strong response from
1:02:17Fanatics. I'm not affected. I'm not owed
1:02:19money, but hopefully, and they're my
1:02:22competitors. There are other people who
1:02:24run the same consignment business that I
1:02:25do through fanatics. Some of them got
1:02:28hit for hundreds of thousands andor over
1:02:30a million dollars. I hope they make all
1:02:32them whole. Fanatics should
1:02:36>> barring like I I don't even care about
1:02:37all the legal speak in in all their
1:02:39things. They uh I should have caught
1:02:43this. The other guys in my position
1:02:45should have caught this. But I literally
1:02:47don't even touch the slabs. Fanatic
1:02:48should have caught this, too. Uh but but
1:02:51again to be fair to Fanatics, to be fair
1:02:53to Alt, they're in the PSA vault.
1:02:56They're in GameStop power packs. They're
1:02:58they're being sold on the PSA vault on
1:03:00eBay, skipping authenticity guarantee
1:03:03because they go through a guarantee and
1:03:04authenticity check going into the PSA
1:03:06vault. It's uh
1:03:09it's crazy.
1:03:12>> It is. It is.
1:03:14And one thing that I said too, like it's
1:03:18such a scary thing to say. It it should
1:03:22be obvious, and I'm not going to even
1:03:24name names here. But there's been scams
1:03:27in the past where certain people have
1:03:29come out and they've said, "I'm going to
1:03:31make everybody whole." Some of those
1:03:33people were going to be required to make
1:03:35everyone whole by the platform. The
1:03:37platform that they sold on was going to
1:03:38force that anyways. So, some people
1:03:40front ran that and and got good
1:03:42publicity and props to them for that.
1:03:44But, uh, one thing that's true and
1:03:46everyone should know this, but I think a
1:03:47lot of people don't. There's a limit to
1:03:49everyone's generosity. The the the
1:03:52generosity is a business decision. I I'm
1:03:55going to tell you, like, this is dumb
1:03:57for me to even say these words out loud.
1:03:59If I sold $50 million of these slabs in
1:04:02the past three months, I couldn't have
1:04:04physically done that because I didn't
1:04:05sell that many dollars worth of slabs
1:04:06anyways. If I sold that many and I paid
1:04:09out the consigners and fanatics tried
1:04:10calling that money back from me, I would
1:04:13go bankrupt. My entire company would go
1:04:15under. I would not be able to pay out
1:04:17everybody affected. So like the people
1:04:20who are paying out everyone affected are
1:04:22doing it because they physically can.
1:04:24Everyone has a limit to where they would
1:04:26do that. Um some due to their personal
1:04:29wealth, some would dip into their own
1:04:30personal funds. Everyone has a certain
1:04:32number though. Thankfully, this didn't
1:04:33go on for but I if that $384,000
1:04:37Gyarados was fake and I already paid out
1:04:39the consigner and I I I interacted with
1:04:42the buyer. If I privately middled a
1:04:44$300,000 card, absolutely. I would have
1:04:46made things right, I would have lost
1:04:48$300,000. I'm glad I'm not in that
1:04:50position to have to do it. Would I have
1:04:52done it for 500 grand? Yes. Would I have
1:04:54done it for $5 million?
1:04:58>> I could liquidate everything I have in
1:05:00my business. I don't have that much
1:05:02money. Yeah.
1:05:03>> Or maybe maybe maybe barely, but like
1:05:07>> uh everyone's generosity is with some
1:05:12limit and it's just dangerous and
1:05:17odd kind of to to give too much props to
1:05:20people. And and then you have the other
1:05:22angle of people that are like and I'm
1:05:24not doing this either. I'm I'm saying
1:05:26things that I shouldn't be saying
1:05:27really, but um I wasn't hit by this or
1:05:31at least I don't know that I was yet.
1:05:32Maybe I was on cheaper cards, but like
1:05:35that wasn't through my own expertise.
1:05:38That that was through luck. And a lot of
1:05:40people that weren't hit by this was
1:05:42through luck. And a lot of people that
1:05:44that are doing the right thing are doing
1:05:46so as a calculated business decision.
1:05:49And there's some amount of math where
1:05:52they wouldn't do the right thing. they
1:05:54they like they physically and and again
1:05:57I'm I'm not going to tie a name to this
1:05:58but like everyone has a number everyone
1:06:00has where their solveny would limit and
1:06:03just know just know that those doing the
1:06:06right things and and and you could say
1:06:08well Dan this person has a personal net
1:06:10worth of $50 million and and they would
1:06:12go in what if it was a hundred million
1:06:14and that's getting crazy but like
1:06:16everyone has some limit their net worth
1:06:18is their limit lower limit than that is
1:06:21the solveny of their company a lot of
1:06:23people and and this is like a reasonable
1:06:26business decision to do it and I I'm not
1:06:27in jeopardy of doing this only through
1:06:29luck, not through skill. I'm not in
1:06:31jeopardy of going bankrupt as catch them
1:06:32all collectibles, but that's what an LLC
1:06:35is. That's what an LLC does. If you have
1:06:37five companies and one goes bankrupt
1:06:40because you middleman $50 million worth
1:06:42of cards and and and that uh company
1:06:44only has $2 million worth of assets, you
1:06:47go bankrupt with that company and your
1:06:48other $10 million company over here
1:06:50doesn't lose any money. That's how
1:06:52companies work. That's how LLC
1:06:54production works. People, oh, I get an
1:06:56LLC because I need to get sales tax free
1:06:58on Amazon. I need to get sales tax free
1:07:00on eBay.
1:07:01>> You don't need an LLC to do that. Like,
1:07:03but but but it's just it's crazy how
1:07:07unaware of all these obvious things are.
1:07:12And people will just parrot these things
1:07:13on Instagram like, oh, it's it's crazy
1:07:17to me. Um, it's it's really scary. And
1:07:20I'm saying this as an incompetent
1:07:22person, as an ignorant person who could
1:07:25have lost over a million dollars. And I
1:07:27only didn't because I was lucky. That is
1:07:29so scary. And I'm going to change
1:07:32things. I'm going to look closer at
1:07:33everything. And I'm sure Fanatics is
1:07:35going to change things, but I I
1:07:37offloaded all the responsibility onto
1:07:39them. And that was really dumb, frankly.
1:07:41And uh I I I apologize. I apologize for
1:07:45that. Nobody's even affected. I I I
1:07:48apologize for that. That that was so
1:07:50dumb and so bad. And uh yeah, I
1:07:54>> But what can you what can you do? Cuz
1:07:58like you're you're not getting the
1:07:59cards. They're going you're having
1:08:00people mail right to fanatics.
1:08:03>> So you start having people send cards to
1:08:05you and then go to fanatics.
1:08:08>> The theoretically I could be
1:08:10significantly more educated, more
1:08:12educated than the employees at the PSA
1:08:14vault. More educated than the employees
1:08:16at the alt vault, the fanatics vault.
1:08:18Theoretically, I could have been aware
1:08:20before everyone else was about fugitive
1:08:22in technology and I could have been
1:08:23looking and I could have been doing this
1:08:25and the QR codes and I I could have done
1:08:27all that. Like all that information was
1:08:29out there. It only became evident
1:08:31yesterday and today as people parsed
1:08:33through it. But like theoretically that
1:08:36there are faults in my process that that
1:08:38that led me only only through luck not
1:08:42selling fake cards. Um, I I honestly in
1:08:44hindsight, I gave all the authenticity
1:08:48obligations to fanatics and I didn't
1:08:52double check their work. Um, and and a
1:08:54good businessman, a good investor will
1:08:56always know their risks. And the biggest
1:08:59thing among everything else, you need to
1:09:01know what your wipeout risks are. I
1:09:03hadn't even identified that as a wipeout
1:09:05risk. I was just entirely asleep at the
1:09:07wheel. I was caught up in the big
1:09:09numbers. And um yeah, I I I
1:09:13theoretically over the p like I've sold
1:09:15an average of a million dollars a week
1:09:17for the past several weeks, that's like
1:09:20seven or eight million. It's not
1:09:22practical that every single card I sold
1:09:25would have been fake. But but like had
1:09:27this gone on for three more months, I
1:09:28might have sold another 1520$20 million
1:09:31worth of cards. And who the hell knows
1:09:33like 510 million could have been fake.
1:09:36Um, that's and again I've talked with
1:09:39multiple people about this before we're
1:09:40doing this live stream. Some people are
1:09:42like, "Dan, you're being crazy. You're
1:09:43being too hard on yourself." Like kind
1:09:46of, but also kind of not like it is
1:09:48scary. It is a wakeup call to have had a
1:09:51near miss of that scale. And and I'm not
1:09:54trying to make this all about me uh by
1:09:56any stretch of the imagination. Like
1:09:58there are a lot of people affected.
1:09:59There are private buyers, private
1:10:01collectors, seven figure sums. And I I
1:10:04hope and and maybe even in that reality
1:10:07too, if I had a $10 million liability,
1:10:10maybe Fanatics would cut the check.
1:10:12Maybe Fanatics would resolve that. But I
1:10:14I would fully be at their whim. I would
1:10:17fully be at their disposal. Like it it
1:10:20would be on them whether or not I
1:10:22survive as a business in that
1:10:23theoretical that thankfully didn't
1:10:24happen. Um very scary things. and and
1:10:29moving ahead. Uh I'm and thankfully most
1:10:32my consigners are people who knew me
1:10:34from E4. Most my consigners are people
1:10:36that know me from here. They they are
1:10:38less likely to be people buying six
1:10:40figure slabs from the Netherlands. Most
1:10:42of them are cashing out collection pies
1:10:44that they bought 5 10 years ago for a
1:10:45thousand bucks.
1:10:47>> So part of the way that I'm set up, but
1:10:50I was looking into it. I was looking
1:10:52into scaling more. I was looking into
1:10:53send not me personally. I was looking
1:10:56into going to conventions. Not not me,
1:10:57but sending people to conventions to get
1:11:00these cards to consign.
1:11:03>> Good thing I didn't. But but again, that
1:11:05wasn't through skill. That was through
1:11:06luck. Um
1:11:07>> yeah,
1:11:08>> crazy.
1:11:11>> Crazy. Crazy. Um,
1:11:15but are we booming? Hold on.
1:11:17>> Are they gonna Are they gonna
1:11:19>> Yes.
1:11:20>> Yes. Yeah. Sure. Uh, are they going to
1:11:23do anything about this week's auctions?
1:11:25I feel like these are gonna go. People
1:11:27are gonna be so scared.
1:11:29>> There was a Blissey. There was a Blissey
1:11:31in the Fanatics vault on buy it now. Pop
1:11:33one of 11 that is now deemed ineligible.
1:11:36There are cards that have been pulled
1:11:38from alt. There are cards that have been
1:11:40pulled from Fanatics. So, they're
1:11:41actively looking through um one of our
1:11:45>> even anything anything high-end people
1:11:48are gonna be so leerary of until until
1:11:52some something or fanatics and alt and
1:11:54all them can send send stuff off to be
1:11:57reauthenticated.
1:11:59>> Alt ends tonight. Alt is ending as
1:12:02>> I feel bad for anyone who sent in there.
1:12:05>> Alt is ending as we speak. Fanatics ends
1:12:07Sunday. Um Alt ends every Thursday.
1:12:10Fanatics ends every Sunday. eBay e eBay
1:12:12ends every night. Every day, every
1:12:14night, every hour eBay ends. Uh I
1:12:17haven't heard of anyone pausing an
1:12:18auction block, delaying an auction
1:12:20block. Would that be reasonable?
1:12:23I don't know. Um I'm a like I I have
1:12:26cards. I have cards. My consigners have
1:12:28cards ending this Sunday on Fanatics. I
1:12:31We're deep in this. There's 130 people
1:12:33in here. They all know what's happening
1:12:34right now.
1:12:36>> The average Fanatics user doesn't know.
1:12:39the average alt user probably doesn't
1:12:41even know this is happening yet. There's
1:12:43a lot of Instagram stories and a lot of
1:12:45views and but like a lot of the people
1:12:47that actually interact in here and buy.
1:12:50>> I I don't even think they know right
1:12:51now. So, I think there's an argument to
1:12:53be made that that they could and should
1:12:55proceed with the current blocks as they
1:12:57are. Remove all the bad ones obviously
1:12:59go back in hindsight, find all the bad
1:13:01ones, refund everybody, whatever, blah
1:13:03blah blah. But uh like get all the cards
1:13:05in house, get all the cards to PSA to be
1:13:07authenticated. But like do you just
1:13:10indefinitely stop auctions for the
1:13:12foreseeable future?
1:13:14>> That's for a week for this week.
1:13:18>> Uh that's a tough thing. I don't know. I
1:13:20don't know.
1:13:27>> I I've not read chat one tiny bit the
1:13:29whole time, so I don't know what I've
1:13:30been missing, but I'm seeing some memes.
1:13:32>> There's some good ones in there. There's
1:13:33some good ones in there.
1:13:34>> Um,
1:13:36>> do you have anything more to add? Do you
1:13:38have anything more to say? Am I crazy
1:13:40for having ranted all the rants that
1:13:43I've done?
1:13:44>> No, I think it all makes sense. Um,
1:13:48I do I do think it's a bad situation,
1:13:52but at the same time, it's going to be I
1:13:54I think it's like everything. It's going
1:13:55to be gone in a couple weeks.
1:13:58Um,
1:14:00and people people will move on. I don't
1:14:03I don't think it'll have any like
1:14:04long-term effects for like market
1:14:06pricing and all that.
1:14:09See, that one I'm kind of torn on. I I'm
1:14:12the the big questions I have is what is
1:14:14Fanatics and Alt going to do? Hopefully,
1:14:17if they make everyone whole, if if
1:14:20Reuben opens up the wallet and spends a
1:14:22few million, I forget the name of the
1:14:24alt owners. um if they open up the
1:14:26wallet and spend a few million and
1:14:28nobody none of the Instagram middlemen
1:14:30go bankrupt because of it, none of the
1:14:32collectors go bankrupt because of it. If
1:14:34that happens,
1:14:36hopefully the cards are slightly
1:14:37recolored, I think that would make it
1:14:40better cuz like
1:14:43a lot of these cards are out there,
1:14:45dozens, hund, hundreds maybe, I don't
1:14:46even know. Hopefully not thousands, but
1:14:49like a lot of these cards are out there.
1:14:50And one thing that we don't know is like
1:14:53what is the card exactly? We're pretty
1:14:56damn sure the card's not fake. We're
1:14:57pretty sure the card's real. Has it been
1:14:59lightly touched up? Are are they hitting
1:15:01it with just blue Sharpie on the edges
1:15:03and it will be very obvious? If if
1:15:05that's the case, I like that more
1:15:07because then PSA authenticating can be
1:15:09easier. But but like again, you don't
1:15:11have to hit the bullseye. You just have
1:15:12to hit the dart board. Look at that
1:15:14Kyogre that I showed you earlier. You
1:15:16don't need to recolor the cards. Just
1:15:18buy a PSA8, crack it out, put it in a
1:15:21case, and it would pass for a lot of it
1:15:23would pass for a lot of tens. I'm not
1:15:24giving you a DIY to do this. Like, and
1:15:27people need to go to jail. As far as I
1:15:30know, nobody from the the Aaban thing
1:15:33went to jail.
1:15:34>> Nothing's going to happen because it's
1:15:36Pokemon. Nobody cares. That's it.
1:15:38>> It's nothing's going to come of this. If
1:15:42if nothing happened, if nothing happens,
1:15:46they learn and they get better and they
1:15:50don't make the QR code error and they
1:15:52don't make the white or the the blue dot
1:15:54error and they they do target these
1:15:57cards instead of those cards. Like I if
1:16:00nobody goes to jail,
1:16:03that's scary because it just becomes a
1:16:04ticking time bomb. And and Rolexes and R
1:16:07and all these things have fakes. Fakes
1:16:09exist everywhere.
1:16:10>> Yeah. in every category. Sports card
1:16:12people have gone to jail. Coin people
1:16:14have gone to jail. Art people have gone
1:16:17to jail. Pokemon people have not yet.
1:16:20We've not grown up to the point where
1:16:22we've sent people to jail. The GI Joe
1:16:24case, as far as I understand, no jail.
1:16:27>> The Aaban, as far as I understand, no
1:16:29jail. We need people to go to jail. We
1:16:31need people.
1:16:32>> Who was his face? The Chinese guy
1:16:34>> who did this years ago. Yeah. Nothing.
1:16:38>> And that's the thing. Xiao happened,
1:16:41nobody went to jail, and now this is
1:16:43worse. These fakes are better. These
1:16:45fakes got deeper. I think the Xiao fakes
1:16:48were mostly private. I don't think they
1:16:49were in a lot of the vaults didn't even
1:16:51exist to the extent they do now. But I
1:16:53don't think those fakes got as deep in
1:16:56everywhere as these ones did. And and
1:16:58because no one went to jail in that
1:16:59original thing, I I almost heard I I
1:17:01thought I heard Xiao went to to jail in
1:17:04China. That might have been for like
1:17:05artwork and crap. I I almost think he he
1:17:06he might have gone to jail over like
1:17:10artwork and other fraud stuff in in
1:17:11China, but maybe that was just rumors. I
1:17:13I don't even know. But uh anyways,
1:17:17this is a lot more
1:17:21hard to verify than the Xiao thing. And
1:17:25with all this new information, the
1:17:27scammers are going to learn. This is
1:17:29like scam 3.0, scam slab 3.0. I'm afraid
1:17:33of what 4.0 and 5.0 and 6.0 know will be
1:17:36um
1:17:37>> but then at the same times PSA and
1:17:39Golden and Heritage and all the auction
1:17:41companies are learning too now because
1:17:44they're they're going to take this and
1:17:45be a lot more careful and then all the
1:17:47consignment services are going to be a
1:17:49lot more careful. So it's it is
1:17:50>> for how long
1:17:52>> I think I would say indefinitely
1:17:55millions of dollars in losses you're
1:17:57you're going to change your policies. I
1:17:59think people were more more cautious
1:18:02after Xiao,
1:18:04but that didn't last forever. This just
1:18:07happened.
1:18:08>> But that's because his fakes were so
1:18:11obvious. Now we know the fakes are
1:18:14getting so much better. And you do have
1:18:16to be a lot more careful.
1:18:21>> I I think all the all the You're Are you
1:18:24ever gonna You say you're gonna get
1:18:26stricter. Are you ever going to start
1:18:28laxing off again?
1:18:30You didn't lose anything and you're
1:18:33you're going to you're going to change
1:18:34your policies forever. Imagine losing
1:18:37hundreds of thousands or millions of
1:18:38dollars.
1:18:40>> The thing is the nature of what I do
1:18:42with fanatics. I I I guess the big thing
1:18:43that I could do is like I could get the
1:18:45slabs in house and then send them. Um
1:18:48that just adds a lot more shipping risk
1:18:50and whatever. But uh the main thing that
1:18:52I could do is and I know tons of people
1:18:55are doing this. We've had multiple
1:18:56people in our chat mention uh we we've
1:18:58had multiple people in in Discords and
1:19:00stuff mention they're creating AI things
1:19:03that are scanning that are doing all the
1:19:04things that are following the the URL
1:19:06that are looking for the dots in the
1:19:08scans. Um
1:19:11so like that's the biggest thing that I
1:19:13could implement. I could do a little bit
1:19:14of a vibe check on the consigner. I I I
1:19:17could ask them a little bit about where
1:19:18they got the card and if they graded it
1:19:19and whatever. But like a lot of I I
1:19:23don't know. There's definitely things
1:19:24that I could do and I definitely will do
1:19:26something, but I I don't fully know what
1:19:27that's going to be. Um, I think the
1:19:30market will resolve some of it because
1:19:32like a lot of these cards I think have
1:19:34gone down in the past couple weeks and
1:19:35as you said, I think alternate is going
1:19:37to be kind of rough relative to a few
1:19:39weeks ago. I think Fanatics this Sunday
1:19:41is going to be kind of rough relative to
1:19:42a few weeks ago. But then this is an
1:19:45argument I've seen going around which is
1:19:47very interesting.
1:19:48>> Um,
1:19:50one of the Kyogres was fake. One of the
1:19:52legendary collection reverse holo
1:19:54Gyaradoses was fake. These cards are low
1:19:56pop. So the amount of supply that's been
1:19:59coming on the market is artificially
1:20:02higher than it would be in a real world,
1:20:05which is actually like a like I I'm not
1:20:07trying to make this argument. Others
1:20:09have made this argument,
1:20:10>> but you could almost say it's a bullish
1:20:12indicator that some amount of the supply
1:20:14that's come out recently isn't even
1:20:16real. So, it's not real supply and like
1:20:20the demand is exceeding that supply that
1:20:22much that the prices are doing what
1:20:23they're doing with all the fakes out
1:20:25there in spite of all the fakes being
1:20:27out there, right? So, all the fakes
1:20:29going away and getting stamped out is
1:20:31actually bullish because now there now
1:20:32there's less cars that was artificially
1:20:34higher.
1:20:35>> I don't absolutely not. There's some
1:20:38validity to it, but but I don't fully
1:20:40buy INTO IT.
1:20:40>> WELL, NO, BECAUSE IF IF there's validity
1:20:42to that, you have to believe in this
1:20:45current market, which you obviously
1:20:46don't.
1:20:48>> I believe in it.
1:20:49>> You can't disagree with this current
1:20:51market and say because so many fakes are
1:20:54out, the market should go higher.
1:20:56>> Well, see, I I'm not saying the market
1:20:58should go higher, but but like certain
1:21:00cards are worse than others. I I think
1:21:02the million-dollar Charizard is a lot
1:21:04less crazy than the $900,000 Garchomp,
1:21:07right, than cards like that. Um, it's
1:21:10all a spectrum. It's all a scale. It's
1:21:12all kind of crazy, though. And and going
1:21:14back to what I've been saying for years
1:21:15is like I think the market drastically
1:21:18overvalues these third party slabs, uh,
1:21:21third party graders opinions. And
1:21:23whether like right now PSA is being
1:21:24targeted uh in hindsight it would be
1:21:27amazing if they had always had scans cuz
1:21:29scans of the cards would be a not not a
1:21:31foolproof way but a pretty solid way
1:21:33like that's my Charizard cuz that's my
1:21:35PSA 10 Charizard that has the 17 white
1:21:37dots on the back in in these exact
1:21:39locations. Um
1:21:41>> yeah, but that's not you can't you can't
1:21:43say that's not uh that's not realistic.
1:21:47Well, that's how it is for CGC and for
1:21:50TAG and for
1:21:51>> Well, yeah, because they starts.
1:21:56>> Maybe it's time to put PSA in the bin.
1:21:58They uh
1:21:58>> No, no, that's never that's never going
1:22:00to happen. That's never going to happen.
1:22:04It's it's it's I don't maybe it's not
1:22:07maybe it's a terrible comparison, but
1:22:08like when uh when the when we got our
1:22:11new $100 bills, we still have t you
1:22:14still have the old $100 bills in
1:22:16circulation. Those are still worth $100.
1:22:19They they're not just getting rid of all
1:22:21those.
1:22:22>> Yeah.
1:22:27Um
1:22:30I'm I'm just browsing through the chat
1:22:32to see if I missed anything. We have uh
1:22:34almost 90 minutes.
1:22:38Oh, question. Do you think because you
1:22:40don't provide crypto payout is why you
1:22:42are safe? Do you have message in your
1:22:43inbox of people asking? I um I do offer
1:22:46crypto. I don't do it too frequently,
1:22:49but uh I do offer crypto. This is a
1:22:52bottleneck that I've been working
1:22:53through over the past couple weeks.
1:22:55Banks are miserable. I I today I I hit
1:22:58my I used to have a $250,000 AC limit.
1:23:02I've had some weeks where I've sold over
1:23:03a million dollars of cards.
1:23:06Banks treat you like criminals if you
1:23:07try to move a bunch of money. The amount
1:23:09of calls I get from Chase, the amount of
1:23:11reversed and not not reversed, but
1:23:13canceled wires, canceled AC's, canceled
1:23:15Zel payments, it is miserable. Um I
1:23:18don't have many consigners that I do it
1:23:19for, but uh whether I pay the consigner
1:23:22with a wire or or crypto. I there are
1:23:27extremely rare instances where wires can
1:23:29be reversed, but it is extremely rare.
1:23:32Usually only for fraud or something like
1:23:34that, which I guess this is fraud, but
1:23:36could you get them to to believe in it
1:23:38or whatever with it being Pokemon cards?
1:23:40But yeah, I uh
1:23:42the biggest thing where most people got
1:23:44caught is they were middlemaning a
1:23:47private sale. I I think generally
1:23:49speaking, the people the scammers didn't
1:23:52want to interface with the companies. I
1:23:54think a lot of the slabs that are making
1:23:56it to the companies were bought on
1:23:58speculation, were bought and then traded
1:24:00and then sold and whatever. But I I
1:24:03don't think like any of the scammers
1:24:05directly interfaced with alt or fanatics
1:24:07or anything like that. I I could be
1:24:08wrong though. Hopefully they did.
1:24:10Hopefully Finax has their information.
1:24:11Hopefully FBI investigation, whatever.
1:24:13Hopefully these people can be found. But
1:24:16no, I actually I do pay with crypto and
1:24:19I haven't had any issues with it thus
1:24:20far.
1:24:25My question here, let me know what you
1:24:27think, Nick. I wonder if there will
1:24:28eventually be a premium for grading
1:24:30provenence. For example, if you can
1:24:31prove you the original submitter, the
1:24:34amount of effort it would take to prove
1:24:35you're the original submitter in in an
1:24:37age of AI.
1:24:39I have tens of thousands of PSA records
1:24:42and and I'm sure I'm not going to do
1:24:44this. People could easily do this. I
1:24:46could say, "Hey, here's my thing." One,
1:24:49you could do an inspect element and then
1:24:51you could just change things and print
1:24:52that out or take a screenshot. But in
1:24:54the age of AI, you could say, "Hey, chat
1:24:57GPT, hey Grock, here's 10,000 legitimate
1:25:01PSA returns and and all these things and
1:25:04create me a fake one that says that I
1:25:05graded this card." And w with the PSA
1:25:08search lookup tool, say that my sir ends
1:25:11in 7889.
1:25:13You can go on PSA's website and see what
1:25:15ends in 7890 and 7891 and 7892 and 7893.
1:25:20You could reconstruct the entire uh
1:25:22submission and you could make it like
1:25:25>> I I
1:25:27>> finish finish what you were saying.
1:25:29>> Some people get mad when I say stuff
1:25:31like this because I'm I'm putting myself
1:25:33in the shoes of the scammer and thinking
1:25:34how they would think. And a lot of times
1:25:36scammers are too dumb dumb to think of
1:25:38things like that. But there's no
1:25:41reasonable way that that you could like
1:25:44in in my opinion at least reasonably
1:25:46prove that you were like, okay, get PSA
1:25:50on the phone and have them log into your
1:25:52account and have them verify from their
1:25:53back end. Are they going to do that? Do
1:25:55they care enough? They didn't they
1:25:57didn't care enough to take a picture of
1:25:58these slabs 10 years ago. Are they going
1:26:00to do all that reasonably they're
1:26:02backlogged? How many million cards the
1:26:04world goes on? Like I don't think that's
1:26:06ever practical.
1:26:09I think um I don't think it'll ever
1:26:12become like mainstream.
1:26:15Uh but I think I think in certain
1:26:17situations it definitely helps. Um like
1:26:21like like um I I go back to like like
1:26:24buying if someone wants to buy a first
1:26:26base Charizard in a 10, buying one off
1:26:29Gary is going to be probably your safest
1:26:32bet. or if someone wants to buy a Watsi
1:26:36booster box, buying one off of Rusty.
1:26:38Um, ju just like going back to like
1:26:41buying from trusted sources.
1:26:43>> Rusty's been duped before. Pokey Rev has
1:26:45been duped before.
1:26:46>> Yeah, but how many times have they been
1:26:48duped versus someone out there?
1:26:50>> Once once is all it takes, right? Like
1:26:52it's
1:26:53>> Oh, no. No.
1:26:55Um, so yeah, I I think I do think that
1:26:57that that will be somewhat helpful, but
1:27:01I don't think it's going to be like a
1:27:02widespread thing where it's where it's
1:27:05super
1:27:06super important.
1:27:11>> Yeah. I I I don't know. It's uh
1:27:15I get it. I get it. But it's so
1:27:18cumbersome. It It's so cumbersome. And
1:27:20it's like what what are we even doing?
1:27:22you need to buy it from the right person
1:27:24now and then at the end of the day it's
1:27:26still going to be an eight like it's
1:27:28going to be not always like there there
1:27:31are some genuine tens out there but most
1:27:33of these low pop cards like okay cool
1:27:35you got it from Gary and he he opened it
1:27:36from a box and he graded it and it's
1:27:38still if you cracked it out and regraded
1:27:40it today it would be a PSA 9 like at the
1:27:42end of the day the whole thing is just
1:27:44so stupid to begin with given how much
1:27:46value we attribute to a couple white
1:27:48dots or not a couple white dots
1:27:52Um,
1:27:55>> I'm I'm seeing some
1:27:58tin foil hats in here.
1:28:02>> Question between show bidding getting
1:28:04exposed and the fake slab news. Is trust
1:28:06broken at the high end? Will more
1:28:07holders start dumping slabs on auction
1:28:09houses and accelerate the downward
1:28:10spiral? Um, the biggest block that I
1:28:13ever had ended last Sunday. It was
1:28:15massive. And it was because these people
1:28:18that held these labs that they paid a
1:28:20few hundred bucks for were selling for a
1:28:21few hundred thousand. Literal thousand
1:28:23X's. Um, now some amount of people that
1:28:27didn't sell two weeks ago when they were
1:28:29500,000.
1:28:31And I I'm I'm going to ask this question
1:28:32that I know the answer to.
1:28:34>> Why would someone sell today for 200
1:28:36grand a car that they didn't sell three
1:28:39weeks ago for 500 grand? Because when
1:28:42price go up, you wait until like you you
1:28:45buy high, you sell higher, you hold
1:28:47until the highest point, and now you
1:28:49panic dump before it goes to zero. But
1:28:51like the
1:28:52>> it's not even it's not even panic dump.
1:28:53It's it's because you you're still so
1:28:56far up.
1:28:57>> Yeah. You're up 500x instead of 2,000x
1:29:00or something.
1:29:00>> Yeah.
1:29:01>> But um the answer will be yes. Some
1:29:04people will absolutely do this. Some
1:29:07people will see it as an opportunity to
1:29:08buy. Some people and and I've I've seen
1:29:11some of these people in Discord. Some of
1:29:12them are probably memeing and they're
1:29:13not probably actually buying, but some
1:29:15people are like, "When there's blood in
1:29:17the water, even if it's your own blood,
1:29:19you buy." Like like right now, be greedy
1:29:22when others are fearful, be fearful when
1:29:25others are greedy. The past couple of
1:29:26months, people were really greedy and
1:29:29people were just going crazy. There's a
1:29:31lot of slabs, e-reader PSA 10s, they're
1:29:34down 70%. So, some legendary collection
1:29:37reverse holo PSA 10s are down 50%. Level
1:29:40X PSA 10s are down 90%. Some of them,
1:29:43some people are going to buy this
1:29:44Sunday. Some people are going to buy
1:29:46tonight and they're going to be thrilled
1:29:47to get a little bit of a discount. Are
1:29:49they buying the falling knife and it's
1:29:51going to go through their hand and uh I
1:29:54don't know. I I don't know if the
1:29:55market's lower in six months or higher
1:29:57in six months. I would lean towards
1:29:58lower. I would lean towards the last
1:30:00couple months has been insanity and and
1:30:02it wasn't all real. And uh yeah, I lean
1:30:06towards bearish, but like when when has
1:30:07Dan not lean towards bearish on slabs?
1:30:10I've been wrong a lot. What What do you
1:30:12think on all that?
1:30:14>> Um I I I was on mute for a second. I um
1:30:18I I was I was zoning out of you for a
1:30:21second. I got distracted. I got
1:30:22distracted.
1:30:24>> Market go up or market go down in the
1:30:26short and medium term?
1:30:28>> Um I I think it's going to be the same.
1:30:30I don't I don't think this g I think in
1:30:32the very short term tonight and this
1:30:34week, yes, because obviously the news
1:30:36just broke. Everyone's fearful. Uh but I
1:30:39I think by next week it's going to get
1:30:42back to normal where people where we're
1:30:46where I I I think I think it's going to
1:30:48continue to go down a little bit, but I
1:30:50don't think it's because of this news. I
1:30:52think it's just because we got so crazy
1:30:55um and pricing got to be so ridiculous
1:30:58that it just couldn't sustain it.
1:31:00Yeah.
1:31:04Yeah. It's insane. Um, if everyone
1:31:07thinks the fake is real, doesn't the
1:31:08fake become real then? The there are so
1:31:11many art galleries around the world.
1:31:12There are so many museums around the
1:31:14world. It is a guarantee that there are
1:31:17fake multi-million dollar paintings in
1:31:20in art museums. It is a guarantee that
1:31:22there are fake artifacts in various
1:31:25museums. like that experts and and the
1:31:28general public opinion like think are
1:31:29real. And there's this interesting
1:31:32philosophical debate around uh and and
1:31:35and going back, let me let me go back to
1:31:37this specific card. And I'm only showing
1:31:39it in in such uh great depth because the
1:31:41consigners already paid out. This this
1:31:43would be so bad of me if uh and I guess
1:31:45I probably negatively talked on some
1:31:47while they were live before, but like
1:31:51this card is a PSA 10. This card sold
1:31:54for 384 grand. The silly thing about all
1:31:58this. Look at this card. This is not a
1:32:01PSA 10. It got so 10 on a label.
1:32:04>> It is. But it got so lucky.
1:32:05>> It like Let's do the thought experiment.
1:32:08Let's do the thought experiment.
1:32:09>> Pop one of 11. If somebody buys one of
1:32:12the couple hundred nines and and and
1:32:14it's genuinely cleaner, I guarantee you
1:32:17there are cleaner nines than this 10. I
1:32:19if somebody buys a nine and puts it into
1:32:23a slab and it gets into the PSA vault
1:32:26into a GameStop power pack and the card
1:32:29condition is actually better than the
1:32:32condition of a true 10 which is the true
1:32:3610 like it's all so dumb. Um I I have
1:32:40been one thing that this solidifies for
1:32:43me and again people hate when I say this
1:32:46because it it it like I don't think I
1:32:49actually affect the market. I think
1:32:50certain people of certain size can
1:32:52clearly I've been on YouTube ranting
1:32:54about how dumb grading was for five plus
1:32:56years and look at what grading has done.
1:32:59>> This solidifies and vindicates all the
1:33:02things that I've been saying all along.
1:33:04the the PSA 10 premiums are so asinine,
1:33:08so dumb. Uh but like those are my
1:33:10thoughts and opinions and nobody cares.
1:33:12Nobody cares what Dan has to think
1:33:14because like look at what the market has
1:33:16done. Uh I I I feel so confirmed in
1:33:20everything that I thought. Uh there's
1:33:23some world there's some world where this
1:33:26becomes bad and if you've got a twoert
1:33:28PSA 10 that's actually a PSA 8 PS like
1:33:32anytime you do a reholder PSA rechecks
1:33:36and
1:33:37remember like years ago on E4 the whole
1:33:39paint can shaker
1:33:41>> you can damage a card. You can damage a
1:33:43card in a PSA holder by mishandling it.
1:33:46Imagine a world where PSA doesn't
1:33:48reholder these cards because you
1:33:50mishandled your card. Um,
1:33:53now that becomes so bullish for true PSA
1:33:5910s. Imagine the pop of PSA 10 base for
1:34:02Charizard is
1:34:0560 in five years.
1:34:08>> Yeah. Yeah, that'd be crazy.
1:34:10>> Imagine it cuts in half. We know, we
1:34:13know as a hobby that there are not 60
1:34:15genuine PSA 10s out of the 125. Oh,
1:34:18Nick, another crazy thing. Did you see
1:34:21this? Did you see anything about the NGC
1:34:23coin?
1:34:25>> No.
1:34:26>> This is insane. And and the timing is
1:34:29scary. And NGC is with with uh
1:34:34>> CGC.
1:34:34>> NGC is with CGC. So, it's not with PSA.
1:34:37So, like all the disclaimers, all the
1:34:38blah blah blah. What what does what does
1:34:41rattle or PK say? Like one, two, please
1:34:43don't sue. One, two, please don't sue.
1:34:45But uh
1:34:47let me see if I can find this. This this
1:34:50is I own some NGC coins. I own some NGC
1:34:53coins that are worth a couple grand.
1:34:55This is frightening. This is insane.
1:34:59Ready? I'm building it up.
1:35:01>> On the edge of my seat.
1:35:02>> I'm building it up, Nick. I'm building
1:35:03it up. The payoff will be worth it. This
1:35:05is insane. The only reason I know about
1:35:08it is because Reserve Investment, Sean
1:35:10made a video, the NGC guarantee
1:35:14expires
1:35:1610 years after the coin was graded.
1:35:19>> Wow.
1:35:20>> They put an expiration date on their
1:35:22authenticity and grade certification.
1:35:26>> That is insane.
1:35:27>> Wild.
1:35:28>> Um, again, NGC is not PSA. NGC though,
1:35:33like if I own very expensive CGC cards,
1:35:37like so far all we've done is is kind of
1:35:40talk about the risks around PSA slabs.
1:35:43This is the same company. This is owned
1:35:45by the same company that owns CGC.
1:35:48Imagine Imagine a grading and
1:35:51authentication company comes out and
1:35:53says, "Hey, you thought you bought that
1:35:56grading uh you you thought you bought
1:35:58that? You thought you own that? That's a
1:36:01subscription and it runs out every 10
1:36:04years. And hell, it's 10 now. Who's to
1:36:07say? Uh, you know, back in my day, back
1:36:09in the 90s, you could buy a movie, you
1:36:12could buy a box set of a TV show. These
1:36:16days, you rent them, you will own
1:36:19nothing, and you will like it. NGC just
1:36:23turned their professional opinion into a
1:36:27subscription model.
1:36:29That is horrifically frightening.
1:36:33Nobody has talked about that anywhere.
1:36:35Sean of Reserve, props. Go check out
1:36:37Shawn of Reserve Investments. A lot of
1:36:39people in here probably know who he is.
1:36:41He makes a lot of great videos. A lot of
1:36:43Pokemon people hate him because
1:36:44>> videos. I He makes a lot of videos.
1:36:47>> He He genuinely makes a lot of great
1:36:49videos.
1:36:49>> He makes a lot of videos.
1:36:52>> This is insane. How has nobody in the
1:36:55Pokemon? Again, coins are not cards, but
1:36:58like this is the same company as CGC
1:37:01that owns CGC. Isn't Isn't this insane?
1:37:04>> That's I I wonder why I want is it
1:37:08>> owning and stuff maybe? Or is it just
1:37:12like they're
1:37:13>> Why have that?
1:37:14>> Simultaneously, I'm going to say two
1:37:16things. They will feel at odds, but
1:37:18they're not. What they did is horrific
1:37:20and terrible and they shouldn't have
1:37:22done it, and I can't believe they did
1:37:23it. But I also fully understand why they
1:37:25did it and there's some validity to it.
1:37:28I've seen I've seen on E4 years ago I I
1:37:31saw at Worlds in 2019 or or 2018, I
1:37:35forget which one. I saw somebody who
1:37:38stored a PSA slab in a in a waterproof
1:37:41fire safe and they didn't open the safe
1:37:43for over a year and the humidity within
1:37:46there, the temperature changes, the card
1:37:48was wavy. The card was like a Pringle.
1:37:51So, you can mishandle a card and you can
1:37:56ruin the card by by mishandling,
1:37:58mistorring a card. You can put this in a
1:38:00paint shaker.
1:38:02Hear it. You hear it rattling, right?
1:38:04>> Yeah.
1:38:04>> You can mishandle a card and damage it.
1:38:06So, in some ways, it's semivid because
1:38:10somebody could somebody could I love
1:38:12this card. I'm gonna I'm gonna put it
1:38:14like it's always going to be within
1:38:15three feet of me and when I go take a
1:38:17shower, it's going to be on the thing
1:38:18and all the steam and all the
1:38:19everything. PE people could truly damage
1:38:22their cards to where I think it's
1:38:24reasonable that PSA, M uh NGC, CGC, BGS,
1:38:28all like I think it's valid sometimes
1:38:31that they don't authenticity guarantee a
1:38:33card because um they they don't
1:38:35financially guarantee a card because of
1:38:37misuse, because of mis mismanagement.
1:38:39But like
1:38:41saying that everybody's certification
1:38:46expires 10 years later.
1:38:48>> That's crazy.
1:38:50>> That is so like I get it and it's
1:38:53clinically insane. Um
1:38:55>> yeah,
1:38:56>> and the fact that nobody's talked about
1:38:58it aside from Sean is
1:39:00>> well coin people either
1:39:03>> but like
1:39:04>> would you have heard about it because
1:39:06nobody in Pokemon's going to be talking
1:39:08about it.
1:39:09You're just in the wrong
1:39:11>> the same company as CGC. I mean,
1:39:13>> no, that doesn't No, that doesn't mean
1:39:15anything.
1:39:16>> It's wild. Like, like me me personally,
1:39:21I never tell people what to do. I would
1:39:23at least be emailing PSA. I would say,
1:39:26"Hey, I am this. Here's my account
1:39:28number. Here's my submission number. I
1:39:30submitted these cards, and I am afraid I
1:39:34am afraid that someone will do XYZ."
1:39:37And maybe I I don't think anybody has
1:39:39said the answer in chat yet. Maybe the
1:39:41answer is add them to your PSA registry.
1:39:44Maybe the answer is like maybe there's
1:39:45things you can do to protect yourself. I
1:39:48don't know. I I might make a YouTube
1:39:50video. I might make a YouTube video and
1:39:52show every card that I have be because
1:39:55um well well Dan then you're going to
1:39:57give the searchs to everybody. AI
1:40:00someone could have crawled the whole
1:40:02database already a hundred times over.
1:40:04You you could literally have an Excel
1:40:06file like PSA does. You could have a
1:40:08database of every card going into PSA
1:40:11type one, type two, type three, type
1:40:12four. You're not going to do that, but a
1:40:14bot could do that.
1:40:15>> Would it take a month or two? Probably.
1:40:17I guarantee you someone has that
1:40:18somewhere.
1:40:19>> So So like, oh well, I don't want to
1:40:20make a YouTube video. I don't want to
1:40:22like I I I don't know fully what I would
1:40:24do, but I would I would at least highly
1:40:27consider it. I would highly consider uh
1:40:30relabbing all my cards re getting
1:40:32getting the scans on the PSA website so
1:40:33that mine's the real one. Uh maybe I'd
1:40:36add them maybe adding them to my to my
1:40:39registry is some kind of defense. Maybe
1:40:41if a card's in a registry of a of an
1:40:43original submitter, maybe they would
1:40:45send you an email. Hey, this this card
1:40:47is in for relabbing. Can you verify if
1:40:50you still own this? It's in your
1:40:51registry. We we like maybe that's part
1:40:54of the solution. I don't know what the
1:40:56solution is, but uh
1:40:59it's a little scary and I'm not
1:41:02affected. I I don't like I guess I have
1:41:04a couple slabs, but like I don't have
1:41:06many. I'm never going to sell this card.
1:41:08It was a gift. Whatever. Uh part of me
1:41:11wants to actually go back and sell some
1:41:12gifts now cuz like this is just stupid.
1:41:15Uh but yeah, it it's nuts.
1:41:20>> It is. It is.
1:41:23Oh, Voldemort has confirmed
1:41:26likely fake cards sold. I I wonder what
1:41:28they're going to do. I I I don't know. I
1:41:30I don't know if Voldemort has made an
1:41:32official statement on it.
1:41:36Um I I think he actually has a clawback
1:41:39policy built right in where if you can
1:41:42sign a card that's found to be fake, he
1:41:44can come after you for the money, but if
1:41:47he's already paid out the person, he
1:41:49doesn't have your bank account. W with
1:41:51fanatics, they have my vault. They have
1:41:54access to my money. They pay me out my
1:41:56money every week that I pay my money and
1:41:57the consigners money and and all that.
1:41:59So, like they have collateral, whereas
1:42:03he doesn't have collateral. Uh now, he
1:42:06could be entitled to suing, but he'd
1:42:08have to pursue you. He'd have to pay
1:42:10legal fees. He'd have to get a judgment.
1:42:12And then he'd have to even even a
1:42:15winning in court doesn't just put money
1:42:16in your lap.
1:42:17>> No. Like if you sue like I I've seen a
1:42:22lot of talk about contracts.
1:42:24Theoretically they're great. One thing
1:42:26that I tell people too that they again
1:42:28people just don't realize so many
1:42:29things. Um I'm going to pull up another
1:42:31website right now and I'm going to
1:42:34educate some people and and I'm not a
1:42:36lawyer blah blah blah opinions whatever.
1:42:39One two please don't sue.
1:42:40>> Um this is a contract.
1:42:44This is a contract. A a lot of people a
1:42:48lot of people think that you need to
1:42:50have a sheet of paper that says all
1:42:52these words that you sign and and maybe
1:42:55you you put a thumb print in blood and
1:42:56all all these different things. This is
1:42:59a contract. I I I actually went and I I
1:43:01took like one class. I took like I I I
1:43:04took a little bit of law in in my
1:43:06master's program and I I'm not a lawyer
1:43:09though. Blah blah blah all the things.
1:43:11But but me putting an offer out and
1:43:14offering cons there's multiple
1:43:17sorry to my teacher that taught me all
1:43:18these things because I don't remember
1:43:19all the terms but but a contract has
1:43:21like multiple parts. They have an offer.
1:43:24They have acceptance. They have
1:43:25consideration. That's three of like the
1:43:27four or five big ones. And this is my
1:43:30offer. Consign your cards today. Your
1:43:33acceptance is you emailing me and
1:43:36sending me your cards. The consideration
1:43:38is the fee that you pay me. This is a
1:43:41contract. Um, I've had some consigners
1:43:44say, "Dan, can you draw up a contract?"
1:43:46And it's like, "I will do this if you
1:43:48want me to, but this means nothing more
1:43:50than my website does." Um, and and and I
1:43:53I've told people this. How many
1:43:55consigners would tell people this? Like,
1:43:59why do I say the things that I say?
1:44:01>> If you could if you can sign with me and
1:44:03I sell your $10,000 card,
1:44:05>> I will pay you. I I am going to pay you.
1:44:08>> I promise. I will sign a contract saying
1:44:11I will do it. But like if I don't pay
1:44:13you,
1:44:15>> how do you think you get the money?
1:44:17>> You are legally entitled to the money.
1:44:19We formed a contractual bond when you
1:44:22accepted my offer of consignment. Uh
1:44:24whether or not I sign an additional
1:44:26piece of paper that has a contract, but
1:44:28like at the end of the day, if I don't
1:44:30pay you, if I I'm not even like I'm the
1:44:34dumb person that's going to have this
1:44:35conversation. I'm not going to name
1:44:37another consigner because this is such a
1:44:39stupid conversation to have. I am going
1:44:41to pay you, but if I didn't, your only
1:44:43recourse to get the money is to sue me.
1:44:46>> You'll win. But like,
1:44:48>> yeah, but take years. You're have to pay
1:44:51a lawyer.
1:44:52>> It'll cost money. It'll take a lot of
1:44:54time. And if I'm bankrupt by the time
1:44:56you win,
1:44:57>> there's nothing to collect. You can't
1:44:59get blood from a stone. Mars Cards years
1:45:02ago, Ludkins UK years ago, like a lot of
1:45:06people have found this out the hard way.
1:45:08No amount of contracts that you signed
1:45:10with Mars Cards would have gotten you
1:45:11money.
1:45:12>> No amount of contracts that you signed
1:45:13with Lkins UK would have gotten you
1:45:15money. You would have had to sue. You
1:45:17would have had to win in court a
1:45:19judgment. My My uncle My uncle I I don't
1:45:22know if he still has it framed. My uncle
1:45:24years ago was a landlord, and I know how
1:45:26the internet can feel about landlords at
1:45:28times. He was a good landlord and uh he
1:45:31he had this dirt bag of a tenant who
1:45:33knew all the laws and they knew like
1:45:35they did all the things. They stayed for
1:45:37months. They owed him over like 10
1:45:38grand. He he didn't want to pay a real
1:45:40lawyer and he went to small claims court
1:45:42though. I think at the limit small
1:45:44claims court was like five or 10 grand
1:45:46and it was less than he was owed. But
1:45:47he's like I want to get something. He
1:45:49won a judgment. He won in court. He he
1:45:52paid like a a cheaper lawyer a few what
1:45:54whatever. He won in court. He got a
1:45:55judgment. You can't get blood from a
1:45:57stone. He collected zero dollars.
1:46:00>> The person went bankrupt. They had no
1:46:02assets. They had no paycheck. They were
1:46:03under the table. Um, so like I see all
1:46:07these Instagram stories about get a
1:46:09contract. Get a contract. Get a
1:46:11contract.
1:46:12>> That's not going to give you a million
1:46:14dollars if you get scammed. That's not
1:46:15going to give you 10 grand or five
1:46:16grand. That's not going to give you $7.
1:46:19>> If you can sign with somebody and you
1:46:20sign 10 contracts and they owe you $7,
1:46:24you have to sue them to get that. You
1:46:26>> you don't you don't present the contract
1:46:29and then magically get $7.
1:46:32>> Like people think that,
1:46:36>> Nick. But I don't know. No, I think I
1:46:38think you I think you go do two do
1:46:41>> how many reasonable people think that?
1:46:44Do reasonably people think this?
1:46:46>> Yes.
1:46:48>> I don't know. I think it's I think it's
1:46:50I think it's
1:46:51>> I think I I think this thing this went
1:46:54viral months ago and I I followed it a
1:46:56little bit because it went so big and
1:46:57everyone was talking about it. Bricks
1:46:58and minifigs that whole consignment
1:47:00thing blah blah blah. I think there
1:47:02there were contracts and there were
1:47:03lawsuits and the only reason anything
1:47:05happened is because it went so viral.
1:47:07Like there were contracts and contracts
1:47:10don't just magically spit out money.
1:47:12>> Yeah. Um, and so, so like whether you're
1:47:16working with me or like again I I don't
1:47:19even want to throw other hats into the
1:47:20ring. I don't want to throw other names
1:47:22adjacent to such an insane conversation.
1:47:25The thing is the thing about it being
1:47:26insane is like it's simultaneously
1:47:28insane, but it's also not at all. People
1:47:31are sending me millions of dollars of
1:47:33things and trusting me. I like to think
1:47:35that I've earned their trust in in 12
1:47:37years in the hobby and I uh there's no
1:47:40amount of money that would make me just
1:47:42skip town and run. And I I've literally
1:47:44had millions of dollar like multiple
1:47:47millions of dollars. I had
1:47:51just literally pending as we speak
1:47:53several million dollars that I'm going
1:47:55to be paying out in the coming weeks.
1:47:57Um, there's no amount of money that that
1:47:59I will throw away my morals and and my
1:48:01word and all that stuff. But, uh, some
1:48:04of these Instagram stories are just
1:48:05like, "Oh, haha, dummy. You just lost 10
1:48:08grand because you didn't have a
1:48:09contract." No, you lost 10 grand because
1:48:11you trusted the wrong person. How do you
1:48:13pick out the right person? That's
1:48:15freaking tough. Um, I can say that I'm
1:48:18the right person and I'm not going to
1:48:19scam you, but like I'm a stranger on the
1:48:22internet for to for a lot of people and
1:48:24frankly like I very much appreciate that
1:48:27people trust me the way that they do and
1:48:29in trusting me you're also trusting
1:48:31fanatics and there's a lot there and
1:48:34there's like no at the end of the day
1:48:36like there's no great solution to that.
1:48:39Sure, a contract. It's a piece of paper
1:48:40and maybe it'll make your your court
1:48:42case one a little bit easier, but what's
1:48:45on my website is a contract. Um, and and
1:48:48I've I've signed some contracts with
1:48:50people that again, like, and I tell them
1:48:53I I've probably signed three of them for
1:48:55consignments. I've consigned this year
1:48:58over
1:49:00probably almost $20 million worth of
1:49:02cards, and I probably only signed three
1:49:04contracts. And I told all three of those
1:49:07people, I said,
1:49:10"This is no more than what I already
1:49:13have. And I if like I'm going to pay
1:49:15you, but if I didn't, this wouldn't just
1:49:18turn into money. Like you would still
1:49:20have to do the same things you would
1:49:21have to do without this contract."
1:49:23>> Um, and that's news to a lot of people,
1:49:26I think.
1:49:27>> Um,
1:49:28>> that's just wild to me. I I've made
1:49:32sales on eBay 5 10 years ago for for a
1:49:35thousand bucks and they messaged me
1:49:36wanting a contract. It's like what are
1:49:38we what are we doing here now?
1:49:40Authenticity guarantee. Like
1:49:41>> that's insane.
1:49:42>> Like people just think thing like there
1:49:46there was that commercial years and
1:49:48years ago. That's not how this work.
1:49:49That's not how any of this works. Like
1:49:51that plays through my head so many
1:49:53times. Um,
1:49:56>> and I I think some people are going to
1:49:58listen to this live tonight and they're
1:49:59gonna be like, "Dan's off his rocker. I
1:50:02can't believe anyone like I I think a
1:50:04lot of people are going to understand
1:50:05what I'm saying and and hopefully
1:50:07they'll uh they'll trust me as much as
1:50:10they had. I I I don't think I
1:50:11necessarily deserve more trust for
1:50:13saying what I'm saying now. But uh I I
1:50:15think some people will be like scared
1:50:18away from me saying obvious objective
1:50:21truths that other people will just hide
1:50:24and not say. And uh and I don't think
1:50:29any of the consignment companies out
1:50:30there are are going to scam you. But but
1:50:33also uh if and when something happens
1:50:35and they become insolvent,
1:50:38businesses will just go under. And
1:50:40contract or not, there's no money to be
1:50:42had uh in certain instances.
1:50:44>> Yeah.
1:50:47>> Um
1:50:52>> starring more questions as we go.
1:50:55>> Good timing. How was your day today,
1:50:57Nick? Any cool shot pickups or updates
1:50:59recently? Need to break up the Dan
1:51:00rambling. This was asked an hour and 25
1:51:03minutes ago. Break up that Dan rambling,
1:51:05Nick, while I prepare for more rambling.
1:51:07>> He's live tonight, isn't he? Or is it
1:51:09bad?
1:51:09>> Maybe. I don't even know.
1:51:12>> Uh, it's bad tonight, I guess.
1:51:13>> Grammar was live last night. Yeah,
1:51:15>> that's right. That's right. Uh, my day
1:51:17was good. My day was good. Thanks for
1:51:18asking, Grimer. Um,
1:51:22>> what did I buy? I bought a bunch today.
1:51:24Uh, some Pokemon Center ETBs. Um, I did
1:51:28buy a light play shining Magikarp first
1:51:30edition. Uh, that came into the shop.
1:51:32That Watsi stuff is always fun. Uh
1:51:35because you just see so much modern all
1:51:37the time. Um so seeing anything Watsy,
1:51:40especially Shinings, uh that's that's
1:51:42really exciting. So that was that was a
1:51:44lot of fun there. Um saleswise, it was
1:51:48it was decent.
1:51:50Um kind of kind of slow today, but uh
1:51:53no, it was a pretty solid day.
1:51:57>> Nice. Um I I need to share these ones
1:52:00quick. Nick, that's a wild take,
1:52:01brother.
1:52:03>> Regarding this being regarding this
1:52:05being similar to the the CGC fakes, um,
1:52:07there was a bunch of people.
1:52:08>> There was a bunch of people on my side.
1:52:11>> Then you knew if you had one. Now you
1:52:13don't know if you had one. Though,
1:52:14interestingly, back then there were
1:52:16three or four that were real. Three or
1:52:18four of those prototypes were actually
1:52:19real. I forget which ones. Marco on
1:52:21Instagram. There was a Pikachu that was
1:52:23real. There was a Charizard that was
1:52:24real. Some of them were actually real.
1:52:26So, so some people didn't fully know for
1:52:28a while. A lot of people didn't know,
1:52:30but then it became apparent that like
1:52:32all almost all were fake. How was PSA to
1:52:35blame in all this? I'm with Ban. These
1:52:36two are very different. Everyone was on
1:52:38my side there in the chat and I wasn't
1:52:39with him.
1:52:40>> Oh, I wish I saw those
1:52:44>> Josh for 43 months.
1:52:4724 Four years almost. That's crazy.
1:52:52>> Appreciate you. Um hopefully this is the
1:52:55case. Like I I will be and I say too
1:53:00much all the time. If I'm not even going
1:53:02to name a name here, if any company that
1:53:05I'm involved with doesn't do the right
1:53:08thing here, I will very strongly
1:53:11reconsider my involvement with said
1:53:13companies. And how much that means to
1:53:15them, I don't know. But I'm not going to
1:53:17name names. I am the largest single
1:53:20consigner for multiple aspects of
1:53:24certain company's business. And I I hope
1:53:27the things that I say to them will mean
1:53:29something, but like I'm not even
1:53:31affected if if some companies try to let
1:53:35individuals on Instagram and whatever
1:53:37eat all this and and don't do the
1:53:39initial refunds and aren't bearing the
1:53:42brunt of this, that will be very
1:53:44upsetting and I will talk about it and I
1:53:46will probably get in trouble and things
1:53:49will probably change with respect to
1:53:51certain aspects of my business. I
1:53:53really, really, really don't want that
1:53:54to be the case. Um,
1:53:57but we'll see. Uh, I am
1:54:01hopefully hopefully things will go the
1:54:03right way. Uh,
1:54:07>> let's see.
1:54:13If I owned highv value cards, I would
1:54:15get out when you still can. Fakes will
1:54:17become so good and abundant that even
1:54:18the most advanced will not be able to
1:54:19tell. The only saving feature Oh, there
1:54:21was a two-part to this. I think
1:54:24>> with that. I don't think so.
1:54:25>> Like you you can't throw the baby out
1:54:27with the bath water. You can't like in
1:54:29I'm I'm giving a lot of like
1:54:31>> worst case scenarios here. Those could
1:54:33hit in in
1:54:36confidence could be shattered and it
1:54:38could take a long time. Things could
1:54:39never come back around. people always
1:54:41said and and again like I think PSA
1:54:44didn't necessarily do anything wrong but
1:54:46if they have 30 million slabs out there
1:54:48that there's no good way to know who's
1:54:50is whose and if they have 70 million
1:54:52slabs out there with no scans um again
1:54:56people are going to hate hearing it but
1:54:58there's some percent chance that in 20
1:55:00years PSA is not top dog they could not
1:55:04be bankrupt either but they might not be
1:55:05top dog and and one component of it
1:55:08could be that like they were too early
1:55:10and they didn't have all the security
1:55:12that everyone else did. It's not their
1:55:13fault, but like they could still get
1:55:15damaged because of it. Um, one one great
1:55:18leg up that CGC had is they were born in
1:55:20a time where they had the security
1:55:22features. They they had and do they have
1:55:24enough? Like I I'm saying certain things
1:55:25under assumptions. I don't even know.
1:55:27But but CGC blue label, they always had
1:55:29the QR code. They uh what security
1:55:31things are here? The hollow, the
1:55:33whatever. Can you wash this? This is
1:55:35more like paper. I I I think if you were
1:55:37to wash this
1:55:39I I don't know what would happen
1:55:41exactly, but but that's probably why
1:55:42there's a different variant gradient in
1:55:44the in the blue, but then certain arrows
1:55:47had different gradients of the gradient
1:55:48in the blue. I I I don't know with all
1:55:50this stuff, but yeah, I I think this
1:55:52takes a little bit too far.
1:55:54>> Yeah, for sure.
1:55:57>> Um
1:55:59>> Dan needs to buy my slabs back that I
1:56:01bought from him. I don't want them. I
1:56:02posted this on Instagram and it wasn't
1:56:05just me trying trying to get uh some
1:56:07some goodwill or whatever, but like if
1:56:10someone genuinely bought a slab from me
1:56:12on Fanatics and Fanatics is kind of hard
1:56:14to tell, you would have to go back into
1:56:16my weekly filter for for said week
1:56:18auction block. But but if you bought
1:56:21slabs from me, send me an email, send me
1:56:23a DM. I I will interface between you and
1:56:26Fanatics either like I I will help you
1:56:29sort out whatever is going on with that.
1:56:31Um, I I don't think any of mine were
1:56:34affected, but but again, I've only
1:56:35checked the 50K plus cards, and I've
1:56:37seen a bunch of cards
1:56:40a
1:56:40>> at scale. At scale, I I it's it might be
1:56:44more likely that I did sell one than I
1:56:45didn't sell one to to be honest. I don't
1:56:47even know. Um, if if this goes back to
1:56:49July, I I sell three to 5,000 cards a
1:56:52week. A lot of those, to be fair, are
1:56:54CGC fanatics, which were grading there,
1:56:56and then are selling. So, I I probably
1:56:59only sell 500 cards a week. that are
1:57:01freshly sent to Fanatics. Maybe not even
1:57:03that many. May maybe it's Anyways
1:57:06though, it's thousands of cards if not
1:57:0810,000 cards that I've sold through
1:57:09there. So, it wouldn't be shocking if
1:57:11there was a couple.
1:57:12>> Um,
1:57:14yeah, every platform needs to have
1:57:16better systems in place. We were all
1:57:19asleep at the wheel. Any of the
1:57:21companies out there, any of the people
1:57:23out there that are saying
1:57:25we would have caught it this that the
1:57:27other thing or we did catch it a month
1:57:29ago. a month ago, why didn't you tell
1:57:32people?
1:57:33>> And then
1:57:34>> two, like if you didn't catch any,
1:57:36either you're probably at such a small
1:57:38scale that you didn't get any like me, I
1:57:40got lucky,
1:57:41>> or uh yeah, like some of that is just
1:57:45it comes off really weird. At least my
1:57:47my take. And I'm someone who
1:57:49theoretically could do that. Haha. All
1:57:51you dummies that got got by this, I
1:57:53didn't get got by this, consigned today.
1:57:56Like I I I'm not saying that.
1:58:02some small extent it's their fault. It
1:58:04is their intent that we value their
1:58:06slabs highly. They do marketing. They do
1:58:08things with the goal of making the slabs
1:58:10worth more. If if you had gone 20 years
1:58:12ago and you would asked um man I can't
1:58:16think of their names right now. It
1:58:17wasn't Nat Turner at the time. But but
1:58:18if you had asked Joe Orlando,
1:58:20>> if you would asked Joe Orlando, if you
1:58:22had asked uh Ryan Hogue, if you had
1:58:24asked Nat Turner, if you had asked all
1:58:26these people 20 years ago, 15 years ago,
1:58:2810 years ago, five years ago, like if
1:58:30you had asked Nick and Dan, Nick and
1:58:33Dan, what's the upside on a PSA 10 base
1:58:35versus Charizard? What's the upside on a
1:58:37base unlimited booster box? What's the
1:58:38upside on a Phantom Forces booster box?
1:58:41like Nick and I, I I think Nah and Ryan
1:58:44and Joe, I think they would have vastly
1:58:47underestimated what all of this would
1:58:48have done. May maybe I'm wrong there.
1:58:50May maybe they saw all this coming with
1:58:52Pokemon in particular. I think I'm right
1:58:54because like
1:58:54>> yeah,
1:58:55>> they for so many years they didn't give
1:58:57a crap about Pokemon, frankly.
1:58:59>> But uh that would be interesting. And if
1:59:02you ask them today, like maybe there's
1:59:05an interview 101 15 years ago with them
1:59:07giving some tics. That would be weird
1:59:09though coming from them. So there's
1:59:10probably not like we'll never know.
1:59:12>> We'll never know. But
1:59:15>> yeah, it's uh
1:59:17>> it's insane.
1:59:18>> Ken Golden always believed in Pokemon.
1:59:21>> Yeah.
1:59:22>> Yeah.
1:59:23>> There there is video evidence of Ken
1:59:25Golden.
1:59:26>> Uh more than believing in Pokemon, man.
1:59:28He was he was the OG whatnot uh
1:59:32>> the OG whatnot shill.
1:59:34>> Like like mad too. Crazy.
1:59:41>> Um,
1:59:45>> starring more things.
1:59:47>> Each submitter needs to supply a blood
1:59:49sample and it's smeared on the label DNA
1:59:52certified.
1:59:52>> So, so PSA actually has PSA DNA. Um,
1:59:57>> maybe that's what that service is. I'm
1:59:59I'm not fully up to speed on what that
2:00:01is.
2:00:01>> This whole time.
2:00:02>> No, I think that's for like memorabilia
2:00:04and autos and stuff, right? But PSA DNA
2:00:06does exist.
2:00:07>> That's what we think. That's what we
2:00:09think.
2:00:10>> May maybe it's been there all along. You
2:00:12You got to get the uh So, so the new
2:00:14tier opened. Um yeah, PSA restarted the
2:00:17value tier. Um they they need to open a
2:00:20new tier where you pay an extra 50
2:00:22bucks. 23 and me. I think that that
2:00:24that's the old DNA website called,
2:00:26right? You uh you you get it. So Pokemon
2:00:30Classics was talking about this too. I'm
2:00:32the original submitter. There is my DNA
2:00:36uh DNA code with within that slab. Like
2:00:40that that's uh put it on the blockchain,
2:00:43throw in all the uh all the DNA coding
2:00:46in there. I mean, now now we're talking.
2:00:49>> There we go.
2:00:51>> But again, this goes back to my general
2:00:54bearishness and general like we have
2:00:56lost our minds when it comes to grading.
2:00:58Old C, no Kurt. Old C, no security. Old
2:01:03Cert, lot of ugly cards. Newerts, Curts,
2:01:07all the like there's just so much [ __ ]
2:01:11All of it. So much [ __ ] in all of it.
2:01:13All different eras have their own
2:01:14problems. Um
2:01:17I hope I'm being a little bit dramatic.
2:01:20I I hope like the bottleneck is not the
2:01:23labels. The bottleneck is not the cars.
2:01:26Hopefully the slabs are more of a hurdle
2:01:29than I think they are. But like
2:01:32>> I think I think they might be. I think
2:01:34um who knows
2:01:35>> they have to be.
2:01:36>> Imagine
2:01:37>> they have to be because
2:01:40>> crack so easily.
2:01:42>> Yeah. I if they're not a hurdle
2:01:46that's not good.
2:01:47>> No. No.
2:01:49>> Because the labels aren't a hurdle and
2:01:52the cards aren't a hurdle. Well, I I
2:01:54would say the labels being so old kind
2:01:56of are cuz they all have that like
2:01:58winess to them.
2:02:00>> But the real ones do though, too. Again,
2:02:03you don't have to hit the bullseye.
2:02:04>> If you printed one today,
2:02:07>> you don't print the new label.
2:02:08>> It's not going to be wavy.
2:02:10>> You You wash You wash this label and
2:02:13then you reprint on this label.
2:02:16>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
2:02:18>> And again, I have two right here. These
2:02:21have a little wave in them, but they're
2:02:22not too bad. And I have some that are
2:02:24horrific. I I have some that are really
2:02:26wavy, really terrible. Um,
2:02:30if the slabs aren't a bottleneck, I I
2:02:32pray to RCS that the slabs are a
2:02:34bottleneck because if they're not, that
2:02:36is pretty dark. Um, these cards are in
2:02:39the PSA vault.
2:02:42So, they fooled one PSA employee one
2:02:44time. And and to be fair, PSA starting
2:02:48yesterday, starting today, like they are
2:02:50going to be so much more vigilant. I
2:02:52hope and pray. But the last time I
2:02:54assumed that another company would take
2:02:57care of my authenticity concerns, I
2:02:59trusted Fanatics and they sold a bunch
2:03:02of fakes and so did Alt and so did XYZ
2:03:04and so did like I I am cautioned.
2:03:09I'm being highly cautious in just saying
2:03:11like, "Oh yeah, PSA's got it.
2:03:15We've seen them
2:03:16>> No. I I I
2:03:18don't know. I think I think all these
2:03:19companies will definitely tighten up.
2:03:23>> They're going to tighten up. But can
2:03:24they physically get tight enough? Cuz
2:03:26again, they don't have to hit the
2:03:27bullseye. They only have to hit the
2:03:28>> dart board. They're they're all they're
2:03:30going to be losing so much money.
2:03:32They're going to want to prevent against
2:03:34that.
2:03:35>> It's not a question of if they'll put
2:03:37the effort and the energy and the care
2:03:39into doing it. It's if it's physically
2:03:41possible.
2:03:43There's a world where it's physically
2:03:45impossible for them to be like there's a
2:03:47world where if if somebody has these
2:03:49slabs in mass and again you don't have
2:03:53to hit the bullseye. Hitting the
2:03:54bullseye would be doing everything
2:03:57perfectly. I I if these slabs between
2:04:00zero and 30 million have 50 variants and
2:04:04the PSA and the 21 and the XYZ and
2:04:07whatever. If there's if the dart board's
2:04:09this big, you don't have to hit the
2:04:11bullseye. All you have to do is hit the
2:04:13dart board. Like there's a world where
2:04:16like like take it to the extreme. Say
2:04:19that PSA's first 30 million cards were
2:04:21literally stapled into a penny sleeve.
2:04:24>> Mhm.
2:04:25>> Like that's the extreme scenario.
2:04:27>> There is no fixing that. There's no
2:04:29pictures. They're stapled into a penny
2:04:31sleeve and and uh Timmy at PSA sharpied
2:04:35on this is a 10.
2:04:36>> That is unfixable. Like like I'm I'm
2:04:38using an extreme example to demonstrate
2:04:41there's a world where it is unsolvable.
2:04:44Um if if this was a stapled penny sleeve
2:04:47with Sharpie on the front that is
2:04:48unsolvable.
2:04:50It's fundamentally broken. There's
2:04:52billions of dollars of cards affected.
2:04:53We know it's not that. But like is it
2:04:57workable? I probably it probably is.
2:05:00>> I I think I I do think it is. I don't
2:05:03think
2:05:03>> Would you bet your life on it? Would you
2:05:05bet your life that that PSA won't
2:05:06accidentally relab one of the fakes and
2:05:08then the reel gets left out the dry?
2:05:10>> I'm not my life on that.
2:05:12>> No, I'm not gonna do that either.
2:05:14>> It's not a guarantee. It it is it is
2:05:16there's a nonzero chance that there
2:05:18could be issues here. Um and the
2:05:20indications are large.
2:05:21>> Yes, there is a nonzero chance, but I I
2:05:23don't think it's as big of a chance. I
2:05:25don't think it's doom and gloom,
2:05:28>> but but if it's if it's a 5% chance,
2:05:31Nick, you've been to the casino. um
2:05:34hitting a single roulette number is less
2:05:35than a 5% chance and people hit single
2:05:37roulette numbers all the time, right?
2:05:39Like if if there's a talking about all
2:05:41this AI, the chance they take over the
2:05:43world and kill all humanity, like if
2:05:45there's a 3% chance of a catastrophic
2:05:48failure,
2:05:49you you need to weight that into your to
2:05:52to your math on if you're an investor,
2:05:54if you're a speculator, what you're
2:05:55going to do with your slabs. Um, I I'm
2:05:58not saying that that's where we're at,
2:05:59but like these are the things that I
2:06:01would think about if I had $10 million
2:06:03of of vintage slabs that were affected.
2:06:05>> But then like how many how many
2:06:09slabs is it? Cuz like all the old So you
2:06:13have what do you have million or
2:06:15olderts,
2:06:16>> but
2:06:18how many of those have already been
2:06:20reholdered?
2:06:22>> I would say a good portion of those. We
2:06:25we know of the 125 PSA 10 base first
2:06:28Charizards that 90 of them were graded
2:06:31in those eras. And
2:06:32>> yeah, but how many of them been
2:06:33reholdered since?
2:06:35>> Probably not a third.
2:06:37>> I don't I I don't know. I think I think
2:06:39it's I I would say it's a good bit.
2:06:43>> Even Even if it's twothirds, that's 30
2:06:44of them that are like like that's $30
2:06:47million of market cap and and that's
2:06:48just one card. Um
2:06:52yeah, I don't know.
2:06:54See, I I don't think I don't think it's
2:06:56as big of a thing.
2:07:00>> Zar Lurking wants to know how many cards
2:07:02were sending the PSA with a new $40 car
2:07:04$40 value tier.
2:07:06>> Not many.
2:07:08>> Probably none. Probably none. Honestly,
2:07:09>> the thing is is it cost less, but you're
2:07:12waiting years to get the things back at
2:07:14this point.
2:07:16Um I've been doing a lot more singles.
2:07:19Um because even CGC takes forever at
2:07:22this point. Um, so I've just been doing
2:07:25I'm I'm getting very strict and I'll
2:07:28still set like uh like higherend cards
2:07:31that I think I'll 10 aside. Um, but
2:07:35aside from that, I've been I've been
2:07:36doing a lot more singles. Plus, singles
2:07:39just move so much better in the shop
2:07:40than graded does.
2:07:46>> Um,
2:07:52Does this ultimately make PSA better?
2:07:54And once all these fakes are weeded out,
2:07:56maybe there are way less actually
2:07:57available for sale and prices getting
2:07:59even crazier to reflect that bright
2:08:00side. There's a world where my fear of
2:08:04this scenario is overblown and and
2:08:06there's a world where it all gets
2:08:08resolved and we all sing kumbia kumbaya
2:08:10together in a couple years in a market
2:08:12that is way higher than it is today.
2:08:14Absolutely. Um, but there there's a
2:08:18there's a downside where it's like
2:08:20really bad and and really and again like
2:08:23I made this mistake two days ago. I was
2:08:27not factoring all my risks in. I had a
2:08:30wipeout risk in my business that I was
2:08:34not aware of, that I was not calculating
2:08:35for, that I was not ready for. And as a
2:08:38as a good investor, as a good
2:08:39businessman, you need to know all your
2:08:41failure points. I I I guess I've always
2:08:43known that like my business model is
2:08:46tied to the the respect and whatever
2:08:48with respect to fanatics and and sure
2:08:50like that's been that that's people
2:08:52question that and that's been shaky at
2:08:54times and whatever but uh but but this
2:08:56is like a direct monetary thing. This
2:08:58isn't just a reputational thing that
2:09:00that has some immeasurable effect. This
2:09:02uh this was direct dollars and cents
2:09:04that I was asleep at the wheel at and
2:09:06could have been really bad. And again,
2:09:08like I I think if you have these slabs,
2:09:10the the the chance is not 100%. It's
2:09:12probably significantly closer to 0% than
2:09:15it is 100%. But but it's also not zero
2:09:17percent. And uh you need to factor it in
2:09:20to some extent. Um, I hope this makes
2:09:24fanatics way better and alt way better
2:09:26and I hope that uh all these things get
2:09:29caught in the future. But but again,
2:09:31Xiao four years ago, current scammers
2:09:33today, if nobody goes to jail,
2:09:36somebody's going to try again someday.
2:09:38And will we get lulled into a false
2:09:39sense of security if two years pass,
2:09:41three years pass, 10 years pass? Um,
2:09:43it's definitely scary, but it but it's
2:09:46something that watches contend with.
2:09:47It's something that art contends with.
2:09:49It's something that coins contend with.
2:09:50and they're doing pretty damn fine from
2:09:52what I understand too.
2:09:54>> So like keep that context too.
2:09:56>> Um
2:09:58but yeah,
2:10:01>> crazy crazy times, crazy world.
2:10:06>> Overall, the hobby will get better
2:10:07through this. And yes, the more info the
2:10:09people know, the better. That's always
2:10:11my take.
2:10:12>> I agree with that. I agree.
2:10:13>> I I think the risk I I DM'd Nat about my
2:10:17concern with this era of search
2:10:19specifically. I think these are going to
2:10:21be targeted. Um I I would rather try to
2:10:24stay one step ahead and um I I hope PSA
2:10:27comes out with a very good response that
2:10:29takes into account all the risks and oh
2:10:31no look and and they'll probably do
2:10:34this. They'll probably say we have XYZ
2:10:36and we can't tell you for security
2:10:38reason and and maybe that's valid. Maybe
2:10:40that's the real answer. Maybe PSA has a
2:10:43way to crack these that when they crack
2:10:45them certain atoms of some certain
2:10:48chemical are dispersed. Now you're just
2:10:50giving PSA way too much credit.
2:10:53>> They have an X-ray fluoresence monitor
2:10:56and and it sees the little trickling of
2:10:58like the zinc atoms or or whatever they
2:11:00do the plastic with. Like
2:11:03>> the the technology exists, but were they
2:11:05doing that 30 years ago?
2:11:06>> Did it exist in the '9s?
2:11:07>> I know. I know. I know. Like the the
2:11:09things that I'm saying is like there
2:11:11could genuinely be things that we're not
2:11:13aware of that we don't know. That's
2:11:14probably the corporate speak answer that
2:11:16we get. How valid is it? I have no idea.
2:11:19But like there could be something for
2:11:21real that we don't know that that is
2:11:23more plausible than that. Um yeah, I
2:11:26don't know.
2:11:30Um
2:11:36Dan stops at red light. He looks at his
2:11:38wife, tears streaming down his face.
2:11:40Honey, we almost died. What if I didn't
2:11:42stop? I need to evaluate my drive. See,
2:11:45that's not a good analogy. The analogy
2:11:47is I'm driving down a highway and I have
2:11:50been for the last thousand miles. I blew
2:11:5323 red lights that I didn't know
2:11:55existed. Now it's 3:00 a.m. in Idaho and
2:11:59maybe the odds were low that anyone was
2:12:00coming through those intersections
2:12:01anyways, blah blah blah, whatever. But
2:12:04like, no, I was actually I was blowing
2:12:06red lights. So was all so was Fanatic.
2:12:08So was all these Instagram consigners.
2:12:09So was a lot of people. And uh I I
2:12:12stopped at the 38th light and I got
2:12:15lucky that I didn't get hit at any of
2:12:16them. And now I'm going to look for
2:12:18lights and I'm going to program a little
2:12:20AI robot that scans all my fanatics
2:12:22listings and gives me a thumbs up if
2:12:23they're good to go.
2:12:26>> But yeah, that uh that's the more
2:12:28appropriate analogy.
2:12:32Um,
2:12:33so I' I've been saying an accurate
2:12:36number per per what I was monitoring
2:12:38before, over 97% of my Fanatics auctions
2:12:42get paid on average, like like within
2:12:44the first payment run. And uh, starting
2:12:48in weekly auction 246,
2:12:51which was about three weeks ago, which
2:12:53only got cancelled within the past week,
2:12:55a lot more were cancelled. Um, of the
2:12:57high end though, the the low end though,
2:12:59like and and mind you, most of what I
2:13:02sell, most of what I sell is 10 and $15
2:13:05CGC slabs. I I run the CGC fanatics
2:13:08consignment thing, and the vast majority
2:13:10of what I sell is sold and paid and some
2:13:13repackers buying at some whatever
2:13:15instant like repacker. Um, so so the
2:13:18vast majority by by volume, but but
2:13:20starting in weekly auction 245, um,
2:13:23double digit percents of my greater than
2:13:25$25,000 slabs didn't get paid. I I don't
2:13:28know off the top of my head what they
2:13:29were exactly, but uh yeah, it uh it
2:13:34definitely got worse a few weeks ago.
2:13:38Yeah, you you got to start over at the
2:13:40beginning of the stream. I I can't recap
2:13:42all of it.
2:13:44Yeah,
2:13:45>> even though PSA is PSA is a victim, Alt
2:13:48is a victim, Fanatics is a victim, they
2:13:50all need to make very good statements.
2:13:52Um,
2:13:55I think uh they they all have some
2:13:57amount of blame in this. PSA's blame is
2:14:01the the least because I mean they're
2:14:06victims, but in hindsight 30 years ago
2:14:08they could have taken a picture of all
2:14:10the cars
2:14:11>> with resolution with whatever like is it
2:14:13even feasible? Probably yes. They they
2:14:16probably could have done that. I'd be
2:14:17curious PCGS, NGC, they've been around a
2:14:20long time, too. Have they always taken
2:14:22pictures? I I don't even know. But
2:14:25>> I doubt it. Was Were scanners even a
2:14:28thing? Because because they came from
2:14:30the 80s.
2:14:30>> Yeah. The P Yeah,
2:14:33>> they probably scanners were even a thing
2:14:34back then.
2:14:35>> They probably have a filing cabinet. You
2:14:37know those disposable cameras
2:14:39>> from the 90s? They probably had a
2:14:41disposable camera and they took a
2:14:43picture and then they had to go like
2:14:45they had to go get the the film
2:14:46developed uh the next week. That was one
2:14:49guy's job. Um and then they have a
2:14:51filing cabinet somewhere where all that
2:14:52stuff is just physically there. The old
2:14:54or the Polaroids.
2:14:55>> I highly doubt it. You went you went
2:14:57from bashing PSA to giving them way too
2:15:00much credit.
2:15:03>> Polaroid cameras were first publicly
2:15:06demonstrated in 1947.
2:15:09>> What?
2:15:10>> That seems way too early.
2:15:12>> I would have guessed like the 80s.
2:15:14>> No, I would have guessed like the 70s.
2:15:17>> And now when was PSA grading founded?
2:15:211991.
2:15:22>> Mhm.
2:15:22>> They've got to have Polaroids of
2:15:24everything. I mean, props to PSA for
2:15:26having the foresight.
2:15:28Um,
2:15:32>> I'm sure you can really tell the uh tell
2:15:34the hollow pattern on a Polaroid
2:15:36picture.
2:15:38>> Yeah, the What about the million dollar
2:15:41FedEx potentially $10 million FedEx
2:15:44theft? Did you hear about that?
2:15:45>> I did hear about that one. That's that
2:15:47that there's something fishy going on
2:15:50there. Um, did you watch Boston? What's
2:15:54it? Boston
2:15:55>> Boston Card Hunter.
2:15:56>> Yeah, Card Hunter. Uh his interview with
2:15:59the FedEx driver talking about like the
2:16:0190minute break. Um and then how it's how
2:16:06it's probably a truck that would go
2:16:08right to PSA and then right to back to
2:16:10the distribution center. That there's
2:16:13something fishy going on there.
2:16:17>> Yeah. I
2:16:18>> and then and then even just the fact
2:16:20that uh PSA is calling it a million
2:16:23dollars. It it seems way more than that.
2:16:31>> Um I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to star
2:16:33more questions if they're there. Yeah,
2:16:36that's one that I didn't look into too
2:16:37much. I uh I don't know.
2:16:42Was it like multiple gold stars,
2:16:45multiple first base Charizards,
2:16:49uh bunch of one piece cards? Yeah, it it
2:16:53I don't know. Plus, it was 6700
2:16:57cards total. Um there's It has to be
2:17:01over a million if it was if it was that
2:17:04if it was if it was those types of
2:17:07cards.
2:17:09did. Um, so it was definitely because
2:17:12presumably people send FedEx into PSA as
2:17:15well. So it wasn't an inbound shipment,
2:17:17it was an outbound.
2:17:18>> Yeah. Yeah.
2:17:20>> So like where it should be open and shut
2:17:23and if they fight this, they should be
2:17:25like they should be very strongly
2:17:27criticized for it, but like you pay
2:17:30upcharges if your cards
2:17:34get a certain high grade. So, like if
2:17:36anyone had upcharges on their
2:17:37submissions and then PSA is trying to
2:17:39pay out a lower rate than what the cards
2:17:41were upcharged to, that's open and shut
2:17:44PSA straight up scamming you because
2:17:46like they they deem the market value for
2:17:48what they charge you on the grading fee.
2:17:50Now,
2:17:50>> if it's the same as if it gets lost in
2:17:53the mail,
2:17:55you you you only get what you declared
2:17:57it or if PSA damages it, you only get
2:18:00what you declared it. But once they
2:18:02upcharge it though, I mean it because
2:18:05you pay return shipping based on you you
2:18:07pay an upcharge based on its value and
2:18:09then you pay return shipping based on
2:18:11its value. So if they're trying and
2:18:13again I haven't followed this so I don't
2:18:15know if they're trying to claim no you
2:18:17declared that card $50 that is $50 raw
2:18:21and then it becomes 20 grand in PSA 10
2:18:23and we upcharge you to 20 grand. Are are
2:18:25they trying to not give those people 20
2:18:27grand?
2:18:28>> I I don't know for sure. I just feel
2:18:31that was that was that was the case
2:18:34>> cuz that's the thing now. Now if it was
2:18:36an inbound shipment, that's where people
2:18:38are [ __ ] out of luck. If it was an
2:18:39inbound shipment, you send a $50 raw
2:18:41card, you declare it as $50. That's
2:18:43where their liability caps. And I agree.
2:18:45But but now say you send that one card,
2:18:47the $50 raw card gets a 10, it's worth
2:18:5020 grand. They upcharge you to 20 grand.
2:18:52If if you grade a $20,000 card with PSA,
2:18:55that's like a $1,500 grading fee. It's
2:18:58like 5 to 10% of the of the value
2:19:00depending on where exactly you hit. So
2:19:03again, I didn't follow enough to know.
2:19:05Maybe someone in in chat can let us
2:19:06know. If they charge you 1,500 for a
2:19:09$20,000 card and then they try to pay
2:19:11you out the $50 you declared the card
2:19:13at, that is insane. That is wrong. Legal
2:19:17ease, whatever. I don't know. But like
2:19:20that would be very bad. I I haven't seen
2:19:22that though.
2:19:24>> Yeah. And no, I just I just saw one
2:19:26video and I I didn't look too far into
2:19:27it, but it does sound like that. Um is
2:19:32the way it's happening.
2:19:36Um
2:19:37yes, I should have followed up more on
2:19:39that one because I Yeah, I'm I'm not too
2:19:42aware. What happens to the six to
2:19:4318month vendors who only know an up
2:19:46market if they bought slabs on leverage
2:19:47just to trade with each other? Are there
2:19:49enough real buyers left when the credit
2:19:50bills come due? Yeah, I don't know. Um,
2:19:53there are I I've heard Courtyard has
2:19:56some. I've heard GameStop Power Packs
2:19:57has some. Presumably,
2:20:00these these vaults are going to like
2:20:02pause a little bit to to figure out what
2:20:04the hell's going on, presumably they're
2:20:06all going to add in security measures
2:20:08into their own sourcing. So, like with
2:20:13all the auctions still running, with all
2:20:14the things going on, if if if GameStop
2:20:17and Courtyard and Triumph and Fanatics
2:20:20Instant Rips, if all these companies
2:20:22pause for two weeks to figure out how
2:20:24quick they got and they're not buying
2:20:26for two weeks, the market can drop a lot
2:20:29in two weeks. If all the bigger biggest
2:20:31uh sellers ex buyers exit at the same
2:20:34time or pause at the same time. Now,
2:20:36again, that can go back to there might
2:20:38be amazing buying opportunities. There
2:20:40might be people that buy while there's
2:20:42blood in the streets, while there's
2:20:43blood in the water. There might be
2:20:44people that buy cards on Alt tonight
2:20:46that are up 5x in three months because
2:20:49all this stuff blows over. Like this
2:20:51comment right here, nothing will happen.
2:20:52They'll continue to thrive and grow in
2:20:54the market. Nobody cares about how
2:20:55blatant GameStop and or PS are with the
2:20:57fraudulent and inconsistent business
2:20:58practices.
2:21:00Remember when CT scanning happened?
2:21:02Remember when Xiao happened? Remember
2:21:04when the prototypes happened?
2:21:07Some of it was us. Some of it was other
2:21:09people, but like there was a lot of
2:21:12these live streams. There was a lot of
2:21:13these Instagram stories. There was a lot
2:21:15of these the hobbies over.
2:21:17>> Is the hobby over?
2:21:18>> No.
2:21:19>> No.
2:21:20>> It is plausible that in in two weeks,
2:21:23most people never even were aware it
2:21:25happened. Maybe it was only 80 slabs and
2:21:28and maybe thanks to AI, we already found
2:21:3173 of them and we're only going to find
2:21:33a couple more. Sure, it got into power
2:21:35packs and it got into here and it got
2:21:36into there, but like maybe it's only 80
2:21:39and and maybe it's only five million
2:21:40bucks and maybe Alt and Fanatics and and
2:21:43GameStop and maybe they all write the
2:21:44checks and do the right thing. This
2:21:46could blow over in a month or less.
2:21:50>> I think I think it will. I I definitely
2:21:53think it will. Even Even if it's
2:21:55hundreds or thousands of cards, I I
2:21:57think it's it it happens with
2:21:59everything. Probstekin was literally
2:22:02proven to shill his auctions and he's
2:22:05back on eBay. Like nothing happened.
2:22:09>> That That's That is the ultimate um
2:22:12what's going to happen in this
2:22:13situation.
2:22:14>> Nothing is gonna happen.
2:22:16>> I've probably way overreacted to all
2:22:18this, but uh
2:22:21it's probably just that this one felt
2:22:23the most real to me cuz like there's a
2:22:25world where there's a world where I had
2:22:27a seven figure liability to this one.
2:22:30Mhm.
2:22:30>> Snipe. Snipe was really real, too. And
2:22:32then people could tell by my live stream
2:22:34that week, I was fired up. I was I was
2:22:37going hard. And thankfully, I didn't get
2:22:38sued. Um my one two please don't sue
2:22:40worked that time. Hopefully it works
2:22:42this time.
2:22:43>> But uh
2:22:45yeah, m maybe there's a 90% outcome, 95%
2:22:49outcome where literally in a month,
2:22:53nobody cares. It's over. people secretly
2:22:56sign their NDAs and and get their checks
2:22:58from Fanatics and from all and from
2:23:00whatever um PSA PSA might have to write
2:23:04a couple checks because like it's not
2:23:06their fault. They are victims of fakes
2:23:08being resealed, relabbed, whatever. Not
2:23:11fakes, but like real cars, real labels,
2:23:12real slabs. But the fake is actually in
2:23:15who's doing the sealing. Like it's only
2:23:17real if it if it's done by PSA, which is
2:23:19valid and all that, but but like given
2:23:22that they're in the PSA vault, they
2:23:23might have to cut a a check to a couple
2:23:25people too. Um, from the from the
2:23:29authentication side of that as the
2:23:31seller.
2:23:33Uh, yeah, maybe all those checks get
2:23:35cut. Maybe the NDAs get signed. Maybe
2:23:37everyone gets made whole. Maybe maybe
2:23:39there's secret sauce as to how they will
2:23:43not ever reencapulate a fraud. Um,
2:23:46hopefully that's all the case. And then,
2:23:48well, we we we had fun tonight. That was
2:23:50all.
2:23:51>> Uh,
2:23:55have any of the fake slabs fanatics been
2:23:58sent with a consigner? Yes. Um, so most
2:24:01of them, as far as I understand, uh,
2:24:05I know moving Pokemon and Padrino Grills
2:24:08is one of the big ones that does both
2:24:10alt matics. They got hit on one or both
2:24:13platforms. Um, Secret Mudkip got hit.
2:24:18Maybe he only does private deals. I I
2:24:20think he can signs though. Let me check
2:24:22Fanatics and see if he has a has a
2:24:23filter. Um, I think Secret Mudkip though
2:24:27has a filter on Fanatics. I don't see
2:24:29one though. Maybe not.
2:24:32But yeah, multiple people who like me
2:24:36provide a middleman situation into the
2:24:38Fanatics vault got hit by this. Yes,
2:24:40absolutely.
2:24:44Um
2:24:45PSA just needs to rescan all graded
2:24:47cards.
2:24:49>> Yeah, I mean
2:24:50>> not happening.
2:24:51>> 30 million cards. No, no, 70 million
2:24:54cards probably 2 million have already
2:24:56been done. So only 68 million cards need
2:24:58need to be sent to to PSA at your cost.
2:25:01Um
2:25:02and and and to be fair, like there's an
2:25:05argument to be made that Fanatic should
2:25:08have a PSA rep. like they have CGC
2:25:10people on site that that do the grading.
2:25:13Maybe PSA and they're competitors so it
2:25:16would be weird, but like should PSA
2:25:18partner to some extent with Fanatics
2:25:20with Alt? Every time a card that is not
2:25:22scanned on PSA's website goes to
2:25:25Fanatics andor uh andor um
2:25:30Alt, should there not be an addition of
2:25:33that scan to the PSA database? Now,
2:25:36Fanatus can't do them that themselves.
2:25:39You would need to have an authenticator
2:25:40there. But like that feels like a
2:25:42reasonable thing that might come to
2:25:44reality in the coming weeks and months.
2:25:46Maybe that gets added. Um I think
2:25:48there's a very strong argument that it
2:25:50that it should. Uh but yeah, I don't
2:25:53know.
2:25:54>> What do What do you think about that?
2:25:56Like obviously it's not plausible. Like
2:25:58no, it's it's not possible. It that's
2:26:02that's one that'd be the ideal
2:26:03situation. Yes. But that there's that
2:26:07that could never happen.
2:26:12Yeah. Um,
2:26:13>> how how do you even how because you got
2:26:16to figure how do you track down all
2:26:19these old slabs? The mo I I'd say the
2:26:22vast majority of people have no idea
2:26:24this is even going on. So like PSA can
2:26:28post, hey, send your cards in for free.
2:26:31We'll pay the shipping. We'll rescan
2:26:32them. All this stuff there. There's
2:26:35going to be people who have no idea
2:26:36that's even going on.
2:26:41Yeah. I mean, there are people I I said
2:26:44this in a recent Poke Flips, but there
2:26:46are people that own cars that have
2:26:49recently auctioned for six figures that
2:26:51still think they're worth 500 bucks,
2:26:53that still think they're worth a
2:26:54thousand bucks. I had a designer who I I
2:26:56I've had multiple designers who bought
2:26:58cards in 2016, 2017, 2018, left the
2:27:01hobby to go to med school, left the
2:27:03hobby to go to law school, left the
2:27:05hobby to travel abroad, whatever they
2:27:06did. um they came back and they
2:27:09consigned with me in the past month
2:27:11because they they the cards they thought
2:27:13were worth five or 10 grand were worth
2:27:15500 to 1,500 grand. Um
2:27:19>> Mhm.
2:27:21>> And there are some people that that
2:27:23still haven't found this out. So yeah,
2:27:25like of those 125 Chariz probably
2:27:27Charizards less likely. It it's more the
2:27:29low pop card that sold for literally
2:27:31$50. But but even then, even the
2:27:32Charizard, there's probably one owner of
2:27:35one of those 125 Charizards that bought
2:27:38it 15, 20 years ago for 700 bucks.
2:27:41There's a lot of people that 20 years
2:27:43ago 700 bucks wasn't a whole lot. They
2:27:45probably know it's worth something. They
2:27:47they might think it's worth five or 10
2:27:48grand, but like I bet you there's a
2:27:50single owner of of the base first
2:27:51Charizard that like has no clue it's a
2:27:54million dollar car. They might think
2:27:55it's five or 10 or 25 grand or
2:27:57something. Uh- because it literally was
2:28:00only eight or 10 years ago.
2:28:03>> Yeah. Yeah.
2:28:07>> Um,
2:28:09yeah, animation cells,
2:28:12there's a new company trying to make
2:28:14those happen. And yeah, I
2:28:17those things are all scary. Cards are
2:28:19scary enough. Um,
2:28:21>> not for me.
2:28:24>> CGC would never get involved in a
2:28:26scandal like this. Ah.
2:28:29>> Oh man.
2:28:31>> Yeah. And how this stuff will age. Video
2:28:34games being encapsulated
2:28:36and the seal getting a rating, humidity,
2:28:39time, UV rays. You're going to have A++
2:28:42seals today that in 30 years the Cello
2:28:46is just dried up and shriveled. And and
2:28:48uh again, shout out to Sean Reserve
2:28:50Investments, Nick's favorite YouTuber.
2:28:53Um, this is a thing with like the Kenner
2:28:56Star Wars toys from the 70s. The the the
2:28:59acrylic bubble that came on those
2:29:01cardboardbacked
2:29:02uh toys and stuff. A lot of those things
2:29:04just separate. That's why I've always
2:29:06hated blisters. Blisters have always
2:29:08frightened me uh because it's so easy
2:29:10for the glue to just fail.
2:29:12>> Um yeah,
2:29:18>> imagine what like Yeah. Like I I I pay
2:29:2185% 90% on slabs that are in date. And
2:29:24then slabs that are slabs that are 8
2:29:27years old I only pay 80% on cuz I have
2:29:29to relab in the next two years. Slabs
2:29:31that are over 10 years old I I paid 20%
2:29:33on. I pay raw price on like
2:29:36>> because I need to rego through grading.
2:29:39>> That's insane. Um
2:29:42>> that 10year expiration on grading is
2:29:45dark. And there's a non-zero chance it
2:29:48comes to CGC cuz it literally is at NGC.
2:29:50There's probably a non-zero chance it
2:29:51comes to PSA, which is very frightening.
2:29:55Yeah, them encapsulating consoles that
2:29:58have batteries. That's so wild. Um,
2:30:03at least our shiny cardboard cards don't
2:30:05have batteries inside of them that
2:30:06they're going to leak the acid
2:30:07everywhere.
2:30:10Um,
2:30:17As a PSA 9 collector, am I safe? I've
2:30:20seen some anecdotes where nines are
2:30:22being faked as well. I I I don't know if
2:30:24that's valid, but like I've seen some
2:30:25that supposedly they're coming up as
2:30:27fake. I think you're more safe because
2:30:30you're not paying an absurd 10 premium.
2:30:31I think the people are least safe are
2:30:34ones that have especially ones that
2:30:36bought them recently. If you if you
2:30:38bought them five years ago for a
2:30:39fraction, you're you're not as nearly as
2:30:41as at risk. But yeah, if you bought six
2:30:44figure cards in the past couple months,
2:30:46like you're at the highest risk
2:30:47possible.
2:30:49>> Yeah. Yeah.
2:30:50>> Oh, so that was that was all three.
2:30:52Offer acceptance consideration. I I
2:30:54thought I was missing another component
2:30:55or two, but like I have a master's
2:30:58degree in engineering management and and
2:31:00one of the uh one of the classes that I
2:31:02had to take was like business ethics and
2:31:05law and contract law was like a week's
2:31:08worth of our uh
2:31:12a week's worth of our curriculum for
2:31:13that. So, I'm not a lawyer, but I have
2:31:17been educated a little bit.
2:31:18>> So, you're basically a lawyer is what
2:31:20you're saying.
2:31:20>> I am a lawyer. You're chilling, Dan. So
2:31:24may maybe I was mostly right there. Like
2:31:26again it like
2:31:30Yeah, we we already had the whole
2:31:32contract thing. I I guess we don't need
2:31:33to rehash it.
2:31:34>> Well, I don't know if is trying to bring
2:31:36it up again.
2:31:38>> Oh, is he? I I'm scrolling down. I'm 40
2:31:40minutes.
2:31:41>> Good. We don't need to talk about this
2:31:43again. He he lit he he literally
2:31:45commented this this is why contracts are
2:31:47going to be a big thing in the next
2:31:48couple years.
2:31:50>> Um
2:31:52Do we know the suspected quantity of
2:31:54fakes that hit the market? And how many
2:31:56do you think will never be caught? Yeah.
2:31:58Um,
2:32:00probably 50ish based on me being very
2:32:04plugged into this today. I I've probably
2:32:06seen like at least 50 anecdotes of
2:32:10uh is it that many? Maybe it's not.
2:32:12Maybe maybe 30. I I guess I'm saying 50
2:32:15because I'm probably rounding up for
2:32:16some of the ones that I missed. But uh
2:32:20E4 had a bunch of them listed in one
2:32:22thread, but but it got to where like I
2:32:24don't think anyone was maintaining one
2:32:25database.
2:32:32>> So it's at least dozens and it could be
2:32:33hundreds or but yeah, we we we
2:32:35definitely don't know for sure
2:32:37>> that it'd be um
2:32:39>> yeah, it'll be it'd be interesting to
2:32:43know how many total. I don't think we'll
2:32:45ever know because like like we were
2:32:47talking about earlier, they had to have
2:32:49started with low-end stuff at the
2:32:50beginning.
2:32:52>> Yeah. Crypto makes moving big money easy
2:32:54when banks are a pain and brought new
2:32:56buyers into Pokemon, but bypassing banks
2:32:57also enables a lot of shady activity. Is
2:32:59crypto a net positive or a net negative?
2:33:01I think it's a net positive. Um I I
2:33:06people that follow me have known that
2:33:08I've had grapes with banks for a long
2:33:10time. the the amount of times that I
2:33:11have to tell a Chase lit literally 500
2:33:15times I've told a Chase representative
2:33:16on the phone that I'm not getting
2:33:18scammed from some puppy scam on Facebook
2:33:21Marketplace. It's not some like I I I
2:33:24actually am sending funds to a
2:33:27consigner. And one thing that's
2:33:29potentially solving that due to my scale
2:33:30now I I know I've talked with other
2:33:32people who have done this too. I'm
2:33:35getting into like the commercial level
2:33:36of banking with Chase because like
2:33:39CocaCola, McDonald's, they're paying
2:33:42vendors. They're paying investors.
2:33:45They're like paying things at a large
2:33:46scale. There's no way that someone from
2:33:48Chase is calling them. Hey, hey,
2:33:50McDonald's, are you sure that you want
2:33:52to release $5 million worth of funds to
2:33:54that beef supply? Like, there's no shot.
2:33:57It's just getting done. Do like
2:33:59authentication and high higher security
2:34:02levels. But I've had all that added to
2:34:04my account, too. Um,
2:34:07but yeah, I I think generally removing
2:34:09the friction, removing the headaches of
2:34:11banks is is generally a good thing. Uh,
2:34:14definitely some negatives that come with
2:34:15it, but overall I think I think as a
2:34:17hobby like it's better. What do you
2:34:19think on that one?
2:34:20>> I I kind of agree. I think it's I think
2:34:23it's better. I think it's a kind of a
2:34:26kick in the pants for banks to make
2:34:28things easier and hopefully hopefully
2:34:31banks change, but uh I I I just don't
2:34:34know anything about crypto. So, the only
2:34:36things I hear all the scams that happen
2:34:38and the NFTTS and the crypto bros and
2:34:42just all the negatives. So, I I I think
2:34:45it's a a negative,
2:34:50>> but I don't know. I don't know anything
2:34:51about it either.
2:34:57Save the shop recap for the YouTube
2:34:59video you haven't sent to me yet. Do you
2:35:01not have a video in the chamber for uh
2:35:04for tomorrow
2:35:05>> about that? I was supposed to record a
2:35:07video today. Uh no, I don't think we're
2:35:11going to upload a video tomorrow.
2:35:14>> How do I know my real cards weren't
2:35:15swapped out with fakes and then graded
2:35:17within their facility? Trust. You trust
2:35:19that them doing that would not be worth
2:35:22it. But like individual bad actors, I
2:35:25mean that that's a conversation that's
2:35:28been had for a long time.
2:35:30>> And historically,
2:35:32>> it's not happening. It's not happening.
2:35:34>> No. Like so much more risk than reward.
2:35:38And they have cameras everywhere and
2:35:40surely like they're monitoring things.
2:35:43But yeah.
2:35:48Um,
2:35:56what's the difference between old search
2:35:58and new ones? There's a lot of security
2:35:59features added on to the new ones. The
2:36:01fugitive inc technology, the lighthouse
2:36:04label, the whatever other things. I
2:36:06don't know.
2:36:08>> Yeah. What would happen if if PSA
2:36:10announced, "Hey, we're following in the
2:36:11footsteps of NGC
2:36:14>> 10-year expiration."
2:36:17>> I don't know. I don't know if it would
2:36:18really make a difference honestly
2:36:22cuz like I I don't think it would.
2:36:26Um
2:36:28>> cuz like I don't Does CDC do they have
2:36:31an authenticity guarantee? I like CDC
2:36:34more than PSA. I don't even know if they
2:36:36do. Um, I that that's not something
2:36:40Maybe it's because I'm not buying super
2:36:41high-end cards, but that that's never
2:36:44something I've even like factored into
2:36:47wanting to buy graded cards is they have
2:36:49an authenticity guarantee. Um,
2:36:53yeah, that's that that's never something
2:36:54that's crossed my mind. Um, I so I don't
2:36:58think I don't think it would have much
2:36:59effect on on anything.
2:37:02>> I think it would be very bearish for But
2:37:05but
2:37:05>> why? cuz you you still have you still
2:37:09have like there is still an authenticity
2:37:12guarantee. PSA is still putting their
2:37:14name behind it. Why why does it matter
2:37:17that that
2:37:18>> they're not after 10 years? They're not.
2:37:20>> Yeah, but they are for 10 years. What's
2:37:22it matter after year 10? The card's not
2:37:25just going to suddenly turn fake.
2:37:29Well, if it wasn't checked in those 10
2:37:31years and if PSA tried saying like, "Oh,
2:37:34you you didn't handle this right or
2:37:36whatever." Um, especially especially if
2:37:39I had a low pop that's an eight in a 10
2:37:41slab. I would be frightened of that.
2:37:44Very frightened of that. I I think
2:37:46that's very very bad. But but again, now
2:37:48it goes back to that would be bullish
2:37:51for good tens. It would be bearish for
2:37:53bad tens. It would be I think a lot of
2:37:56it comes down to the whole twoert thing.
2:37:58Like if they have a way to not
2:38:00accidentally authenticate fake slabs of
2:38:02this, then it's all fine and it's it's
2:38:04probably not bearish. But uh I don't
2:38:07know.
2:38:08>> But would would you buy a bad 10? No,
2:38:11you wouldn't.
2:38:12>> I know it's not a 10. And there's going
2:38:15to be some personal responsibility too
2:38:17to people.
2:38:20>> If you're buying the PSA 8 and the 10
2:38:23case, you're just an idiot.
2:38:26>> This is a wild question.
2:38:30Uh, who is a known current slashpast
2:38:33scammer you both still continue to do
2:38:35business with today?
2:38:37>> I don't buy from Voldemort. I don't
2:38:38consign with Voldemort anymore.
2:38:40>> I entirely dropped that.
2:38:42>> Amazing.
2:38:42>> And again,
2:38:44another thing that I and that's someone
2:38:46that I don't do business with. A thing
2:38:48that I said back when that happened,
2:38:49which again, I I say really dumb things
2:38:51because I just I say what's on my mind.
2:38:53I'm very open and transparent. I said
2:38:55that like I if my if feeding my family
2:38:57depended on me using that company, I
2:39:00would probably still continue to use
2:39:02them. My morals go to some certain
2:39:04length, but like if it means feeding my
2:39:06family and I had to use a Voldemort on
2:39:08consignment to do that, thankfully I
2:39:10don't. There's Arizona TCG and there's
2:39:12DC Sports and there's Sees Consignments.
2:39:15Um, but like I I wouldn't fault somebody
2:39:18for continuing to use Voldemort services
2:39:20if like they need it to function as a
2:39:23business.
2:39:24Uh, but yeah, who I mean,
2:39:31I'm try I'm trying to think of an answer
2:39:33here.
2:39:34>> I don't think I I don't think anyone
2:39:36>> There's a lot of people that would call
2:39:38CGC a scammer because of the prototype
2:39:40thing. So, that's one of them. There
2:39:42there's a lot of people that would call
2:39:42PSA a scammer because years ago they
2:39:45graded fake base first edition cards
2:39:47that were just shadowless with a stamp
2:39:48on them. Like,
2:39:49>> yeah, I guess they
2:39:50>> There are companies that people would
2:39:52call scammers. There are people that
2:39:53call finan scammers because of PWCC and
2:39:56shield bidding and whatever. And there
2:39:57there's so there's a lot of companies
2:39:59that I use that that people would call
2:40:02scammers, but like as far as am I
2:40:04interacting with anybody that's just
2:40:05like a straightup Voldemort proven
2:40:08scammer? Like I I don't think so. Um
2:40:14>> yeah, I'm trying I don't think so. And
2:40:17this is an old E4 meme and and PE you'll
2:40:20probably remember it from E4, Nick, but
2:40:22like people on E4 used to say if I am
2:40:25down to my last card in my collection,
2:40:27last card for my PC and the devil
2:40:29himself is selling it. People would buy
2:40:32the last card they need for their PC
2:40:34that it's a 10% discount, 50% discount
2:40:37to market. People would buy from the
2:40:39devil devil himself. Like it's all
2:40:41there's some certain limit. Everyone has
2:40:43some certain number. Uh if if you could
2:40:46buy from a known scammer and nobody's
2:40:47going to know and you could just make
2:40:49$10 million and have financial security
2:40:50for your family for the rest of forever
2:40:52and nobody gets hurt from it.
2:40:54>> Um a lot of people would do that.
2:40:56>> Oh yeah.
2:40:57>> So Oh yeah.
2:40:58>> So yeah, it's a it's a silly
2:40:59conversation.
2:41:01>> Um
2:41:04yeah, I don't think these are fake cards
2:41:06at all. I think they're all just eights
2:41:08or nines that are cracked out and then
2:41:10maybe they're dialed up, maybe they're
2:41:12not. And then they're they're put into a
2:41:1310 slab. And the issue is you don't have
2:41:16to hit the bullseye, you just have to
2:41:17hit the board. And the board is massive
2:41:19because re real tens are out there that
2:41:23look like eights, that look like sevens.
2:41:26>> That's all you have to hit.
2:41:30>> Um,
2:41:39yeah, absolutely. There's nines that are
2:41:41tens or sevens that look like eights all
2:41:43over the place.
2:41:44>> Yes. Yes.
2:41:47>> I didn't sell my artmies to Rusty. I
2:41:49sold my trophies to Rusty. I don't have
2:41:51any regret in selling any of the cards
2:41:52that I sold. I think I sold them for
2:41:53good prices at the time for good reasons
2:41:55at the time. And
2:41:57>> higher. That's why you don't regret it.
2:41:59>> The artmies are way up.
2:42:01>> Oh, I thought we were talking trophies.
2:42:02Never mind.
2:42:03>> Oh, the trophies are up a bunch, too.
2:42:05The trophies are actually up a bunch
2:42:07now.
2:42:07>> Tens of them are. I don't even know if
2:42:09the lower grades are. They're up some
2:42:11double or triple, but nothing like a lot
2:42:13of the other cards. Um,
2:42:16>> disposable cameras.
2:42:20>> Yeah. Has BGS ever are Are they scanning
2:42:23cards like literally as of last week? As
2:42:25as of today?
2:42:26>> I don't think they are.
2:42:28>> Yeah. I mean, PSA's cert number one is
2:42:32literally a trimmed to T2 T206 Wagner.
2:42:37Nobody cares. Um,
2:42:40that's going to be the the moral of this
2:42:42whole story.
2:42:50Collectors is setting up for an IPO. So,
2:42:52they're trying to create maximum profit
2:42:53margins and revenue growth. So, no
2:42:55incentive to price their services low.
2:42:57It'll be interesting.
2:42:59>> No, that's it's the complete opposite.
2:43:03So they stay shut down and don't accept
2:43:05any submissions or
2:43:07>> Oh, they're accepting submissions.
2:43:09>> Well, yeah, but they're they're clearing
2:43:10through their backlog.
2:43:12They're they're down to what, seven
2:43:14million cards left.
2:43:17>> The optimal time increasing their So
2:43:19that it's the complete opposite. No, the
2:43:22optimal time the optimal time to report
2:43:24the revenue is right when the final sub
2:43:27of $15 $25 grading is done and all the 2
2:43:31million cards a month are doing are only
2:43:33at the new 40 and up. That's when you
2:43:35report profits because that's when
2:43:36they're going to be maximum.
2:43:39>> I don't know.
2:43:40>> You you don't want to get new cards in
2:43:43at 20 bucks a card. You want to you want
2:43:45to get it to where every card like
2:43:47they're going to have a month where two
2:43:49million cards are graded and the
2:43:50cheapest one that grades 40. That's $80
2:43:53million revenue as the floor and we know
2:43:55it'll be way higher than that without
2:43:56charges with $1,500 tier, $300 tier,
2:43:58$600 tier.
2:44:01>> That's absolutely what they want to do.
2:44:03>> I because you know that's going to be I
2:44:06don't know. I don't I don't agree with
2:44:08that. You know, that's only a temporary
2:44:10thing. That's not going to last forever.
2:44:13Well, I mean, in investors at times in
2:44:17IPOs, investors at IPOs just buy the IPO
2:44:20regardless of price, regardless of
2:44:22market cap considerations. Look at uh
2:44:25look at uh I mean, look at the world we
2:44:27live in. Look, look at all all the IPOs
2:44:29we've had in the past years and how a
2:44:30lot of them have gone.
2:44:34>> We can disagree on certain things. You
2:44:37can just be wrong. That's fine.
2:44:38>> They literally opened the lower tier.
2:44:41That that just proves your point wrong.
2:44:44>> But they're throttling it though.
2:44:46>> They're throttling. They're not closed.
2:44:47They've never been closed. PSA has not
2:44:49closed in the past two years.
2:44:50>> They closed years ago for for the
2:44:52pandemic for a little bit.
2:44:53>> They're basically closed.
2:44:55>> They're wide open. They're grading too.
2:44:57They're grading more cards today than
2:44:58they ever have graded. They're as open
2:45:00as they've ever been as as ever been.
2:45:02They're just way more expensive. Um,
2:45:07let's see
2:45:10again like yeah the whole contract
2:45:12thing. I saw a lot of people earlier
2:45:15people push back on what you said.
2:45:17People are generally pushing back on
2:45:18what I say.
2:45:20>> I'm telling you a lot of people just
2:45:22think a contract magically makes money
2:45:23appear. Sure, it might make it might
2:45:26make your judgment only cost 30 grand to
2:45:28get as opposed to 25 grand to get. Maybe
2:45:30the judge rules a little bit quicker,
2:45:32but like I I promise you that all the
2:45:35all the um contract law applies without
2:45:38a sheet of paper that says contract at
2:45:40the top that has your signature at the
2:45:42bottom. Contract law can apply and does
2:45:45apply in many many instances without
2:45:47that sheet of paper. Like a lot of
2:45:50people just they they literally see a
2:45:52sheet of paper that says contract. And
2:45:54and I I've seen too, we did some case
2:45:57studies back in back in school and I
2:45:59I've heard of things too where I can
2:46:02write on a contract like I I could write
2:46:04a contract for for the sum of $100,
2:46:06Nick. You will be my slave for the next
2:46:09decade.
2:46:10>> That's an illegal contract. That is not
2:46:12enforceable. I can't make you like like
2:46:14there are such things as oh well it it's
2:46:17written here so it has to be done this
2:46:19way. No. like that's just words on a
2:46:22piece of paper that is not legally
2:46:23enforceable because it's it's it's
2:46:25invalid out of just idiocracy and and
2:46:28not meeting the legal thresholds. And a
2:46:30lot of these contracts that people make
2:46:32up in AI, they're probably not any more
2:46:35valid than the contract that is formed
2:46:37when you accept my offer and and give
2:46:40the consideration of the like that
2:46:42that's what I'm kind of dealing with.
2:46:44Now, if you go to an actual lawyer and
2:46:46you get up a contract and sure, maybe
2:46:49there's something there, but again,
2:46:50blood from a stone, blah, blah, blah.
2:46:52Who cares? Nick doesn't want to talk
2:46:53about it more.
2:46:54>> No, no, we're good on contracts.
2:46:57>> Nick, how much Venmo for you to take the
2:46:59camera and scare thrifty live?
2:47:07>> We didn't get a number, Nick. Come on.
2:47:0920 40
2:47:1160.
2:47:13There you go.
2:47:14>> Crowdfund. I'll throw in 20.
2:47:17>> At 60. That's
2:47:18>> I think I think we get to a couple
2:47:19hundred bucks.
2:47:29>> And this is something that like there
2:47:32are so many videos out there. I I get
2:47:36recommended some YouTube videos, some
2:47:38Instagram reels that have a hundred,000
2:47:41views on these card restoration things.
2:47:45Do you get those recommended at all?
2:47:47>> I don't car, but but like you've seen
2:47:50them. You've seen the Instagram reels
2:47:52where
2:47:52>> they're taking a busted up, folded up,
2:47:54creased card, and are they turning it
2:47:57into a PSA 10? Probably not.
2:47:59>> But are they turning it into a seven or
2:48:00eight and making thousands of dollars?
2:48:02Like absolutely.
2:48:04Very interesting. You're getting all
2:48:06those popup videos nowadays. Must be uh
2:48:09the people you're interacting with, I
2:48:10wonder.
2:48:11>> Uh
2:48:17Nick, if you had to listen to Reserve
2:48:18Investments or Poke now for 24 hours
2:48:20straight, who you riding with?
2:48:25>> Uh
2:48:27I guess I guess Reserve I I can listen
2:48:29to Reserve Investments coin videos
2:48:31because he is knowledgeable about coins.
2:48:34I'll give him that. I'll give him that.
2:48:38So, definitely definitely reserved
2:48:39investments.
2:48:42>> Um, fake slabs are like cockroaches. You
2:48:45see 30, there are thousands. Hopefully
2:48:47not, but probably.
2:48:48>> I don't think so.
2:48:51>> Hopefully not.
2:48:53Um,
2:49:00go look at the elite forum thread. the
2:49:03QR code, the bumpers within the slab,
2:49:06the 21 logo, the dot pattern, the on and
2:49:10on and on and on. There's a lot of lot
2:49:12of things.
2:49:13>> Ultimately, you send it to PSA and they
2:49:16do whatever uh whatever magic they have.
2:49:25>> Why would someone grade a card that is
2:49:27restored with a fake grade when they
2:49:28could keep the card and not put a real
2:49:30one in there? I wouldn't make I wouldn't
2:49:33make sense if they have a lot of money.
2:49:35Raw the Dragonite is still a lot of
2:49:37money. PSA 10 the Dragonite is $288,000.
2:49:41PSA 9 the Dragonite is 10 grand. Is it
2:49:45even 10? I don't even know.
2:49:46>> Like why would they? Because millions of
2:49:49dollars.
2:49:50>> That that PSA 10 uh Kyogre that I sold
2:49:55>> $384,000
2:49:57in a nine. I don't think that card's 20
2:49:59or 30.
2:50:00>> Um, you're talking literal quarter
2:50:03million plus dollars. That's why.
2:50:05>> Yeah. Yeah.
2:50:08>> And and and some of the tens are cleaner
2:50:10than actual tens. Why wouldn't they just
2:50:12grade him and get the 10? Because as of
2:50:15right now, they're not getting the tens.
2:50:17And there's some risk. There's some risk
2:50:19that someday, just just as they've
2:50:20gotten harder over the past years,
2:50:22there's some risk. If you're a long
2:50:24holder of PSA 10 slabs, there's some
2:50:27risk that they grade easy again someday.
2:50:30>> And if they grade easy again someday,
2:50:32you've got a ugly 10, ugly PSA 10. And
2:50:37there's a lot of nines out there that
2:50:39are cleaner than your 10 and and someday
2:50:41those might turn into tens and and the
2:50:43pops might go up a bunch. Like there's a
2:50:44lot of uncertainty about a lot out of
2:50:46all this. PSA could implement a 10-year
2:50:48expiration date. There's there's a lot
2:50:50of things. Um and it's all literally
2:50:52made up. The intrinsic value of all this
2:50:54stuff is zero.
2:51:00>> Yeah. All this stuff is made in China.
2:51:02Um the the PSA slabs I guess I don't
2:51:05know this for certain, but I I would
2:51:06strongly speculate that the PSA slabs
2:51:08are made in China. And who's to say that
2:51:11the these ones that they made a long
2:51:12time ago, there aren't a bunch of them
2:51:14sitting around somewhere or the
2:51:15equipment to make them sitting around
2:51:17somewhere. I don't know if they're
2:51:19injection molded or or how they're made
2:51:20exactly, but uh they're made to the tune
2:51:24of hundreds of millions of them. And you
2:51:26you can go on Alibaba or whatever. You
2:51:28can go you can go buy empty slabs that
2:51:30look really similar. They don't have the
2:51:33logo, but like yeah, that that's where
2:51:35it comes. Uh if you make the dart board
2:51:37too big and a lot of face can get made
2:51:40that throw a lot of uncertainty into the
2:51:42air, it it could definitely it could
2:51:45definitely have very bad ramifications
2:51:47for the hobby. And so much of the hobby
2:51:50is built on this 10 premium. I I invest
2:51:54in modern sealed. Do you think modern
2:51:56sealed is is uh is immune to this? A lot
2:51:59of modern sealed value is because of
2:52:01what the 10ens are worth. Um,
2:52:03>> yeah,
2:52:04>> not one to one, but like, man, if if PSA
2:52:07goes to zero, if if if the extreme
2:52:10example that I gave of like, hey, uh,
2:52:13here's our we put it into a penny sleeve
2:52:16and we and we staple the top shut and we
2:52:18write 10 on the label. If their asserts
2:52:20were if their uh if their slabs were
2:52:23that bad,
2:52:25this would not be fixable. This would be
2:52:27catastrophic failure and it would all go
2:52:30to zero or near zero. It would be really
2:52:32bad. Modern sealed would feel that. Live
2:52:36stream ripping chips would feel that.
2:52:38Everything would feel that to some
2:52:39extent because part of the reason that
2:52:41people are buying packs from Thrifty
2:52:42right now, part of the reason that
2:52:44people are buying packs from PK and
2:52:45Ponga and whoever is because what the
2:52:4810ens are worth.
2:52:49>> Yeah.
2:52:50>> Not all of them, but enough of them that
2:52:52it that it factors into the final price.
2:52:58>> Um,
2:52:59is this me or Nick?
2:53:02this Poke Flips guy. I mean, we're both
2:53:04Poke Flips. This is Poke Flips.
2:53:07>> Boring Channel. Who we Who we talking
2:53:09about here?
2:53:11>> Um,
2:53:14>> if contracts aren't can't be enforced,
2:53:16we are all reduced to animals. Animals,
2:53:18I say.
2:53:20>> No, I uh I I have signed actual
2:53:23contracts and I've honored all of them.
2:53:25I I have formed functional contracts and
2:53:28I've honored them.
2:53:31We are living in idiocracy and hopefully
2:53:33not Terminator.
2:53:36>> Oh, it could be. Could be
2:53:39>> with AI. I don't know.
2:53:42>> What if I have in my possession a fake
2:53:43slab that I suspect I myself faked?
2:53:49>> Quite the conundrum.
2:53:50>> I think you're allowed to plead the
2:53:52fifth. I think that is a legal
2:53:54protection afforded to you to not
2:53:56incriminate yourself. I think it applies
2:53:58to spouses, too. So, if you have slabs
2:54:00that your spouse made, you can legally
2:54:02plead the fifth. Again, I I uh I'm not a
2:54:05lawyer, but I took one semester of
2:54:10business ethics and law in my master's
2:54:13program. So,
2:54:15>> I'm pretty sure that's accurate. Lawyers
2:54:17in the chat, please verify. But I
2:54:18believe
2:54:19>> we need we need Alex back in here.
2:54:22>> Anything you say can and will be used
2:54:24against you in the court of law. You
2:54:25have the right to an attorney and uh you
2:54:28should exercise that right and you
2:54:29should not speak and you should plead
2:54:30the fifth. That is that is my legal
2:54:33advice.
2:54:36>> With that though, Nick and Dan, Dan and
2:54:38Nick, how much sleep do you guys get?
2:54:40What's your average night, Nick?
2:54:42>> Um I would say about seven hours. Seven
2:54:44to eight hours.
2:54:46>> From 3:00 a.m. to 10 a.m.
2:54:48>> No, I've been waking up early nowadays.
2:54:51Um
2:54:52>> yes, my with my little baby. I know what
2:54:55you go through having kids.
2:54:59>> Oh man.
2:55:02>> I
2:55:04usually sleep in on the weekends. Um
2:55:06>> yeah,
2:55:07>> if we don't have anything going on, my
2:55:08wife lets me sleep till 10 whenever I
2:55:11wake up, which is usually like 10 or
2:55:13something. So I sleep 9 hours on the
2:55:15weekends a lot of times, but I sleep
2:55:17seven hours during the week a lot. I I
2:55:20have to get up around 8 and I'm usually
2:55:22going to bed 1 or sometime equally too
2:55:25late.
2:55:26>> Mhm. Yeah. I would I would say for me
2:55:28it's Monday and Tuesday. Uh because
2:55:30those days don't have to go to the shop.
2:55:32>> My my vertical is still very low. Walrus
2:55:34sadly
2:55:35>> a quarter of an inch.
2:55:38You're like you're like George from
2:55:40Seinfeld.
2:55:43>> With that though, we've made it to the
2:55:45end. Um,
2:55:48>> that was a live. That That was fun. Um,
2:55:51>> that was a live. Oh, gee. Thanks.
2:55:53Thanks.
2:55:54>> Makes me feel real good. We are
2:55:58>> hopefully uh hopefully the hobby doesn't
2:56:00implode. It probably won't. This will
2:56:03probably blow over, but uh yeah, I would
2:56:07I would be aware of your risks. Whether
2:56:09you can sign slabs and assume that
2:56:11someone else is authenticating them when
2:56:12they actually aren't, be aware of that.
2:56:15whether you have slabs that that might
2:56:17be fake. Check them. Make sure they're
2:56:20not. Especially if you bought them
2:56:21recently.
2:56:22>> Uh and whether or not you have old slabs
2:56:25that maybe you consider getting
2:56:26reholdered, maybe you don't. Like just
2:56:29be aware of your risks. And uh yeah,
2:56:31good luck. Good luck everyone. Hopefully
2:56:33we stay booming.
2:56:35>> It'll it'll blow over in a week. Nobody
2:56:38will remember this.
2:56:41>> I'll remember it. Pepper Farm remembers.
2:56:43I remember.
2:56:44>> Well, yeah. You'll remember it cuz you
2:56:45were you were you were worried about
2:56:47losing millions of dollars in one day.
2:56:50>> Um scary.
2:56:51>> No, outside of you consigners, nobody's
2:56:54going to remember this.
2:56:57>> Hopefully that's the case. But with
2:56:59that, uh go catch old school Pokemon
2:57:02live all the time on eBay Live. Go check
2:57:04out Old School TCG in Chicago. Go check
2:57:08out Catch Collectibles.
2:57:09>> Chicago.
2:57:10>> If if you want, I will sign a contract.
2:57:13If you don't want, I will still consider
2:57:15that a contract. I I'm I'm a man of my
2:57:18word. These are my rates.
2:57:21Handshake agreement means something to
2:57:23me. Um and yeah, you would be able to
2:57:27sue me and win anyways. So, uh consign
2:57:30today. The the most compelling
2:57:32consignment pitch ever. But with that,
2:57:36uh we appreciate everyone watching as
2:57:38always and we will catch you all later.

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