PMG Interview with Todd Selman — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:01hello sundevils today we are privileged
2. 0:04to interview Mr Todd Selman who is a uh
3. 0:07project manager for the bricon
4. 0:09corporation Todd thank you so much for
5. 0:11joining us today thank you for having me
6. 0:12I appreciate it so Todd tell us a little
7. 0:14bit about your background well um I
8. 0:17actually uh when I got out of high
9. 0:19school I went into the Air Force and
10. 0:20became a civil engineer so I started in
11. 0:23uh in civil and worked in civil
12. 0:25engineering
13. 0:27until that was from '87 until about 95
14. 0:31and then I got out of that and actually
15. 0:33shockingly enough went into sales and
16. 0:36and so I went into sales and really
17. 0:38enjoyed sales but really missed um you
18. 0:41architecture engineering and everything
19. 0:43like that and so I went back into uh
20. 0:45went to into Construction in 99 and back
21. 0:48into construction and I have been in
22. 0:50construction ever since so what are some
23. 0:53qualities that every project manager
24. 0:55should have according to you um
25. 0:58according to me I mean the best thing
26. 0:59you have to have to have is you have to
27. 1:01be able to manage people you have to be
28. 1:03able to manage your yourself more than
29. 1:05anything because there are so many
30. 1:07different things that you have to do at
31. 1:08any given time um and the biggest thing
32. 1:11is really to be personable so that you
33. 1:14can actually pass on the information
34. 1:16there's a lot of information that a
35. 1:17project manager gets um and he has to be
36. 1:20able to give that to everyone else and
37. 1:22this person may accept it one way and
38. 1:25this you say the exact same thing to
39. 1:26another person they can't handle it or
40. 1:28they don't understand it so you have
41. 1:29have to be able to dissimilate that
42. 1:31information to everybody so it's those
43. 1:33are the probably the most important
44. 1:35things so those soft skills those people
45. 1:37skills are essential essential yeah
46. 1:39essential so a lot of times you don't
47. 1:42always get to choose who's on your team
48. 1:44and some people are volunt told or
49. 1:45assigned to a team but if you get to
50. 1:47choose your team what type of team
51. 1:50members would you like to have on your
52. 1:52team um I'd like somebody that that
53. 1:56actually has a can do attitude um I'm
54. 1:58not looking for somebody that that that
55. 2:00sits back and says oh let's identify the
56. 2:02problems or anything like that um a lot
57. 2:04of what I look for on a team is somebody
58. 2:06that that okay we've identified a
59. 2:08solution or a problem let's identify a
60. 2:11solution and then move forward with that
61. 2:13because what happens is a lot of people
62. 2:15will get stuck on the problem and
63. 2:18there's a problem and you you you you
64. 2:20don't have time to deal with problems
65. 2:22you have to move on from those problem
66. 2:24so I look that's probably the first
67. 2:25thing um the next thing is somebody that
68. 2:28you know that you can honestly get along
69. 2:30with you can have a conversation with um
70. 2:32because you're going to be putting them
71. 2:34in front of a client no matter what um
72. 2:36as a project manager you're sitting
73. 2:38there doing it and then I I want
74. 2:40somebody that's technically um that
75. 2:42technically can do the job that that
76. 2:44that has the skills to do the job I'll
77. 2:46take somebody that can read the plans
78. 2:48and is nice over somebody that knows
79. 2:50every technical spec in the book no I
80. 2:53think that's completely understandable
81. 2:55because again those people skills those
82. 2:57soft skills are like they can be learned
83. 3:00but it's very challenging to get people
84. 3:03to to actually adopt those same
85. 3:06practices and behaviors so that you
86. 3:08don't have to worry if they're in front
87. 3:09of a client and if they say the client's
88. 3:11an idiot to their face so like you don't
89. 3:13have to worry about losing that contract
90. 3:15and and it's it's not and it's and
91. 3:17that's the basis of it but it's not just
92. 3:20that um if you have uh if you have an
93. 3:23individual that has a tough time getting
94. 3:25along with people um instead of 10
95. 3:28inspections to get through a particular
96. 3:30phase you may have 20 inspections um and
97. 3:33they'll nitpick every item that they
98. 3:36possibly can but if you're personable if
99. 3:38you can get along with people and
100. 3:40everything else like
101. 3:41that you you create those relationships
102. 3:44you need to be create you need to be
103. 3:46able to create those relationships
104. 3:47quickly no absolutely so conflict is uh
105. 3:51almost inevitable and it's going to
106. 3:53happen and conflict can be a good thing
107. 3:54it can be healthy for a team to go
108. 3:56through um but what how do you handle
109. 3:59conflict and conflict resolution in the
110. 4:01teams that you've LED um I always try to
111. 4:03look at it from their standpoint um you
112. 4:05know there's what like they say there's
113. 4:07always your side the other side and the
114. 4:08actual truth um so I try to look at it
115. 4:11from their side and identify exactly
116. 4:13what is making them you know decide that
117. 4:16that I'm wrong or or this is the wrong
118. 4:18situation or something like that nine
119. 4:20times out of 10 when you do that and you
120. 4:21really take you take that Split Second
121. 4:23to really think about where they're
122. 4:24coming from you know maybe they've got
123. 4:26pressure because you know the the
124. 4:28budget's tighter or something something
125. 4:29like that and you need to you need to
126. 4:31attack it in a in a in a different way
127. 4:34um you know example would be you know
128. 4:36somebody says you you have a change
129. 4:38order that you need to get done you have
130. 4:40to get this work done but you know in
131. 4:42your heart of hearts that the reality is
132. 4:44if they don't do this they're going to
133. 4:46spend twice as much money later well you
134. 4:48go in and you say here's the change
135. 4:50order and they blow up and they have
136. 4:51conflict because they they say no we're
137. 4:53not paying this and not paying this but
138. 4:55if you to come in from the fact said
139. 4:57listen here's a here's a potential
140. 4:58problem that I'm seeing here's a
141. 5:00potential issue that we may have but
142. 5:02this change order will take care of that
143. 5:03problem you will not have that problem
144. 5:04in the future that would have been
145. 5:06alleviated if you'd if you'd have taken
146. 5:08that ta so getting to know the people
147. 5:11understanding what makes them tick
148. 5:12understanding what makes them think
149. 5:14really helps you so when you're creating
150. 5:17your team or you have your team how do
151. 5:18you create a collaborative positive
152. 5:20environment for uh success for the
153. 5:23project um give everybody a stake in it
154. 5:26um you know you you a lot of project man
155. 5:29will go out there and they they want to
156. 5:31be the end all be all they want to be
157. 5:32they want to finish everything and do
158. 5:34everything as quickly as possible but
159. 5:35the simple fact is if if the if if your
160. 5:38project engineer that's been on a job
161. 5:40for six months doesn't feel that their
162. 5:42job and what they're doing is is
163. 5:43beneficial to the team then you're not
164. 5:46going to get anywhere with that person
165. 5:48and they're going to they're not going
166. 5:49to want to want to work with you in the
167. 5:51future so even if it's a small task if
168. 5:54they complete the task correctly if they
169. 5:55do it well you let them know you you
170. 5:58constantly give that that feedback then
171. 6:01if you've told them they've done a good
172. 6:03job 10 times if you have to tell them
173. 6:05that they they didn't do something or
174. 6:06that you're going in a different
175. 6:08direction they're not near as they're
176. 6:10not near as hurt as as they would be no
177. 6:12absolutely celebrating those small wins
178. 6:14exactly that can like compile to the big
179. 6:17wins I'm like everyone always celebrates
180. 6:19those milestones and the deliverables
181. 6:21and but it's celebrating those small
182. 6:23wins that really help team morale and
183. 6:26engagement as well it makes people feel
184. 6:29appr appreciated um and I don't care
185. 6:31what anybody says anytime you feel
186. 6:33appreciated you want to go to work and
187. 6:35you want to do well for that particular
188. 6:37person or that particular client no
189. 6:39absolutely so how do you measure pro uh
190. 6:44success and team success Beyond just the
191. 6:47metrics and the
192. 6:48deliverables um one of the biggest
193. 6:50things is if if you have people that you
194. 6:53know whether they be at the low level of
195. 6:54the team or the high level of the team
196. 6:56they're comfortable being able to bring
197. 6:58an issue to the table
198. 7:00without feeling that they're going to
199. 7:01get some sort of Retribution um so if
200. 7:03there's a problem they bring it to the
201. 7:05Forefront they you you get you get to
202. 7:07attack that problem directly and move on
203. 7:10um so I look at it kind of like okay
204. 7:12I've got a good team they're fine coming
205. 7:14to me and say hey you said this in this
206. 7:17meeting but in this meeting you said the
207. 7:20opposite thing which one is it you know
208. 7:22i' I'd much rather be able to to to tell
209. 7:25them yeah I want you to bring come to me
210. 7:28with that with that criticism as well so
211. 7:31so uh what are some of the tools that
212. 7:34you use for your job as a project
213. 7:36manager um mean you talking software you
214. 7:39talk anything and everything you go from
215. 7:40software to even your phone or a
216. 7:42calendar um it's very funny because when
217. 7:45I when I first started back in
218. 7:46construction I used to tell everybody
219. 7:48you could give me a telephone and a
220. 7:50screwdriver and I can I can get you
221. 7:52anything you want built um and nowadays
222. 7:54it's a little bit more challing a little
223. 7:57more challenging um but I mean more than
224. 8:00anything I'm on you know I'm using um
225. 8:03you know Microsoft Office and any sort
226. 8:06of and that that entire suite and then
227. 8:08you have to basically work with Google
228. 8:09Docs you have to be familiar with all
229. 8:11that stuff um the tool I use more than
230. 8:14anything right now is probably email um
231. 8:17and texting um because a lot of a lot of
232. 8:20times when you have conversations with
233. 8:22somebody that that conversation gets uh
234. 8:25misconstrued after um other things
235. 8:28happen and so always it's always very
236. 8:30very important to have that data to back
237. 8:33up um so I use that and then um we use
238. 8:38in the company I'm with now we use
239. 8:40Autodesk which is a basically a suite
240. 8:43that handles all of your documentation
241. 8:45and everything else like that so it's a
242. 8:48phenomenal it's just a phenomenal
243. 8:49software program it's come a long way
244. 8:51since Lotus Notes believe me so um so
245. 8:54what I use those and then uh and then
246. 8:56frankly you can't go wrong with a good
247. 8:59spreadsheet you know you really can't no
248. 9:03absolutely they can become very
249. 9:04essential and help you in the long run
250. 9:07yes they can that's for sure so so how
251. 9:09do you as a project manager prioritize
252. 9:11any tasks that you have to complete um I
253. 9:15start the day before um so my my when
254. 9:19I'm leaving work the first thing I do is
255. 9:21say okay I'm leaving work what are the
256. 9:23tasks that I need need to accomplish now
257. 9:25and identify those tasks and in the
258. 9:28order that they need to be done and so
259. 9:29that in the in the morning I can get
260. 9:31those tasks done right away if there's a
261. 9:33task that I need to get done that needs
262. 9:35to be done immediately then I'll you
263. 9:37know if I'm driving home I'll make that
264. 9:38call make that text do whatever I need
265. 9:40to do but I always start the day before
266. 9:43um when you're when you're when you're
267. 9:45working from that day and you're working
268. 9:47from emergencies you're never going to
269. 9:49succeed um you're you're you're just
270. 9:51never you're just never going to succeed
271. 9:52and so what my brain does and the way
272. 9:55I've kind of taught everybody that I've
273. 9:57ever taught that is that I've ever
274. 9:59trained is if you're thinking about what
275. 10:01ha what's going to happen tomorrow
276. 10:03you're already a little bit too late you
277. 10:05need to look out you know depending on
278. 10:07the job it's a multi-million dollar job
279. 10:09you may look out a month if it's a if
280. 10:12it's a you know a smaller job you may
281. 10:14look out something else if you're if
282. 10:15you're looking at a task specific issue
283. 10:18maybe you're looking out a week but if
284. 10:19you're not looking out at those
285. 10:21intervals you're going to be in trouble
286. 10:23and so I always kind of end my day with
287. 10:27okay this is what needs to happen
288. 10:28tomorrow so that two weeks I can have
289. 10:30this done and in a week I can have this
290. 10:31done and everything like that and then
291. 10:33in the morning I have a task list of
292. 10:35items that I need to take care of and it
293. 10:37may be two tasks and it and that I need
294. 10:40to that I need to tackle to make sure
295. 10:42that work is done but I make sure that
296. 10:44those tasks are done in the
297. 10:45morning so if a team member comes to you
298. 10:48and requires more time to complete what
299. 10:50they've been assigned how do you handle
300. 10:51that situation um you identify why um
301. 10:55because maybe there's something maybe
302. 10:56they didn't understand the task maybe
303. 10:59the um maybe the task was too much for
304. 11:01them maybe they didn't have the skills
305. 11:02maybe you didn't give them the skills
306. 11:04and and teach them the skills they
307. 11:05needed to complete that task um I always
308. 11:08I try to identify why the task didn't
309. 11:11get done and then once you identify why
310. 11:13the task didn't get done help them with
311. 11:16the task make sure that task gets taken
312. 11:18care of and then walk them through How
313. 11:20To Succeed so that the next time that
314. 11:22task comes up or the next time that
315. 11:23issue comes up they can they can do it
316. 11:26typically it's because you didn't show
317. 11:27them something most the time yeah
318. 11:30usually if you can help educate them or
319. 11:32at least find out what's wrong then you
320. 11:34can solve that problem you're a good
321. 11:36project manager is only as good as the
322. 11:38people that they the people that they
323. 11:39work with that's all there is to it so
324. 11:42so like we discussed earlier rarely does
325. 11:44any project go off without a hitch and
326. 11:46usually challenges come up or something
327. 11:48might happen can you share a time or
328. 11:50experience where you were working a
329. 11:52project and something unforeseen
330. 11:54happened and how did you handle it and
331. 11:56what did you learn from it well um I
332. 11:58mean I can give you an example from
333. 12:00today um we have a a particular Chiller
334. 12:03system that that we're working on a huge
335. 12:05vapco system and the pump on the motor
336. 12:10um was out it's not part of my it's not
337. 12:12part of my purviews so I don't I don't
338. 12:13have I don't have hands on it I don't
339. 12:15have contract for it I don't have
340. 12:17anything but the the the step I need to
341. 12:20accomplish is is is is and come that one
342. 12:24actually work basically by this and so
343. 12:26you know the first thing you do is
344. 12:27identify okay what's the problem what
345. 12:29can we do about the problem is it a
346. 12:30problem that's going to stop any other
347. 12:32function and then um you know so I
348. 12:35basically called up today and I said Hey
349. 12:37listen I need this motor because I have
350. 12:39to have this piece piece of equipment
351. 12:41functioning to perform my next step and
352. 12:44my next step is coming up on Tuesday and
353. 12:46so you know I really need to get this
354. 12:49motor I talked to the owner explained to
355. 12:51him exactly what I needed what what I
356. 12:53needed to get done um and I said you can
357. 12:56either have me do it and I will gladly
358. 12:58do it I have no problem but we need to
359. 13:00add that as a change order and
360. 13:01everything else or you can handle it
361. 13:04with your in-house people and basically
362. 13:06tell me that it's going to be done on
363. 13:07Monday um he said I don't really know if
364. 13:10my in-house people can do it and so we
365. 13:12basically collaborated together we
366. 13:13identified exactly what needed to be
367. 13:15done we went up we got the got all the
368. 13:17motor specs and everything like that
369. 13:19gave that gave that information to him
370. 13:20he identified the motor the motor's
371. 13:22coming uh on tomorrow it'll be installed
372. 13:25on Monday and so therefore we can move
373. 13:28on with our with our task but as long as
374. 13:31you're looking ahead and managing ahead
375. 13:35if an emergency happens you have the
376. 13:37ability to do that if you're working for
377. 13:39next tomorrow's work you don't have that
378. 13:42that fries everything so you know I was
379. 13:44I had the ability to look and and be
380. 13:47able to help him because we had that
381. 13:49kind of buffer built in so so can you
382. 13:51share your experience with like resource
383. 13:54allocation and um resource management
384. 13:56for the projects that you've LED so
385. 13:59resource management is kind of a fun one
386. 14:01because as a project manager you're
387. 14:03always fighting you're always fighting
388. 14:04for resources because um you you either
389. 14:07have U you know a budget number that
390. 14:10needs it's not realistic not realistic
391. 14:13and you need 20 people uh but you're
392. 14:15given 10 so you're always having to do
393. 14:17that and and what I kind of find is as
394. 14:22long as you are upfront because when you
395. 14:25first start in project management it's
396. 14:26very difficult to to kind of get your
397. 14:28hands around the fact that you're going
398. 14:30to be that you were underresourced um
399. 14:32once you've done it a couple times and
400. 14:34it's normally that first one that where
401. 14:36you're completely under resourced and
402. 14:37you didn't know it right off the bat
403. 14:39that you think okay now I really need to
404. 14:42talk about resource management at the
405. 14:44beginning not not the middle or anything
406. 14:46like but the beginning of the project
407. 14:47and identify that Resource Management so
408. 14:50once you once you kind of identify that
409. 14:53resource management and and those those
410. 14:55holes that you have what you can do is
411. 14:57really bring them to the Forefront as
412. 14:59quickly as you can I mean as project
413. 15:01managers you you don't run the company
414. 15:03but you can definitely say listen you
415. 15:06want to make x amount of dollars on this
416. 15:08with this resource I can't make that
417. 15:10money um but you have to have that
418. 15:12knowledge and you have to have the
419. 15:13experience to really identify that and
420. 15:15like I said your first couple yeah it
421. 15:18might be a little bit rough it might be
422. 15:19a little rough on those first couple
423. 15:20because you know most projects that
424. 15:23you're given you are underresourced and
425. 15:26you know they want to pull x amount of
426. 15:28money out of it yeah it's it's fun so so
427. 15:31can you discuss your experience with
428. 15:32budget management for the projects that
429. 15:34you oversee uh well I've I've had budget
430. 15:37management all the way from p&l on the
431. 15:39entire project all the way down to um
432. 15:42you're not handling anything just send
433. 15:43me your bills so um budget management is
434. 15:47is one of those things it is so job
435. 15:50specific that you just a lot of times
436. 15:52you don't even know if you're going to
437. 15:53end up with it um whenever you come into
438. 15:55a project um we have a project that we
439. 15:58they're talking about doing um down at
440. 16:00an airport down there and they're
441. 16:01talking about basically handing you the
442. 16:03p&l and basically saying this is it so
443. 16:05you're handling every line item you're
444. 16:07having every budget item you're having
445. 16:09to identify what the budget items are
446. 16:11you know in the original scope and
447. 16:13everything else like that so sometimes
448. 16:15you have to do that um I would
449. 16:19say most of the time that's not the case
450. 16:22most of the time you're kind of in the
451. 16:23middle you have the p&l they have given
452. 16:26you the items they have given you the
453. 16:28budgets and that you have to fit within
454. 16:30those budgets so you know if my dirt
455. 16:33is a number of 1.2 million and I can get
456. 16:37my dirt guy at 800,000 and he and I can
457. 16:41make sure that all of his scope in there
458. 16:43well I have 400,000 for another budget
459. 16:45item that might be a little lower might
460. 16:48be let's put it this way might be a
461. 16:50little
462. 16:51tighter it's always nice to have that
463. 16:53buffer yeah and I'm a big fan of buffers
464. 16:57um and the biggest thing about buffers
465. 17:00is just when you're when you take your
466. 17:02scope and you take your contract and you
467. 17:05make sure they line up yes and I can't
468. 17:07tell you how many times I've had where
469. 17:10the scope and the contract don't line up
470. 17:13and and you're like oh well I'm I made
471. 17:16saved 400,000 on this job on this on
472. 17:19this line item and it's like not really
473. 17:21because now you have time and materials
474. 17:23for all the stuff that you didn't cover
475. 17:25in the scope so so one of the things
476. 17:28that project managers have to do and
477. 17:29like their teams have to do is engage
478. 17:31with Excuse me various types of
479. 17:34stakeholders and so they can be internal
480. 17:37external they can have like high power
481. 17:39and influence or low power and influence
482. 17:41how do you engage with stakeholders and
483. 17:44can you share a time where you might
484. 17:46have had a difficult stakeholder and
485. 17:47what did you do to either mitigate them
486. 17:50or bring them aboard and want to be a
487. 17:53part of the project so I did uh I don't
488. 17:56know if you're familiar with fresh and
489. 17:57easys I built I was project manager for
490. 18:00pretty much all of them in Arizona and
491. 18:02probably half of them in California um I
492. 18:05was the director of a company that we
493. 18:07did all all that work um and the the
494. 18:12specific owner rep from Tesco was a he
495. 18:16was a he was a challenge um he was a
496. 18:19challenge but we did an enormous about
497. 18:21of business and we and and and he did it
498. 18:24uh and and he respected us but I don't
499. 18:28not quite sure that he ever liked us um
500. 18:30and so the best thing that that we ever
501. 18:32did is identified exactly okay what
502. 18:36would what would this person like what
503. 18:37would they you know what what is what
504. 18:40makes this person tick and so what we
505. 18:42identified was he liked certain things
506. 18:45um he he liked um the numbers to be
507. 18:48round numbers he didn't like um you
508. 18:51know
509. 18:5362,000 he lik 60 or 70 and so and so we
510. 18:57identified kind of some of the these
511. 18:59things that he really kind of hit on and
512. 19:02and really and and really did and then
513. 19:05we identified one of my project managers
514. 19:07that actually really got along with him
515. 19:09very well and so we kind of said okay
516. 19:12well then we're going to shift a little
517. 19:13bit of this a little bit of this other
518. 19:16work onto this project manner moved a
519. 19:19little bit of his projects off and then
520. 19:21it kind of made him the person that that
521. 19:23dealt with this person um and it worked
522. 19:26out fantastic I mean we we
523. 19:29there are a lot of fresh and easys that
524. 19:31poed up in a short amount of time
525. 19:33believe me so so what would you consider
526. 19:36your most successful project and why my
527. 19:40most successful
528. 19:43project everybody has their Sentinel
529. 19:46project so my Sentinel project is
530. 19:48probably the the uh Plaza Hotel in
531. 19:50Denver Colorado
532. 19:53I when we topped it out it was
533. 19:57unbelievable
534. 19:58Colorado is a beautiful place and we
535. 20:00topped it out in a snowstorm with a
536. 20:02crane that we had brought up from Denver
537. 20:04Colorado it was it's it was stunning it
538. 20:06was unbelievable um we built it for the
539. 20:08Pras and so we I mean they spared no
540. 20:12expense and it was just a really cool
541. 20:13thing um so that's
542. 20:17my Mountain I guess you could say but
543. 20:20truthfully I'm prouder that I can drive
544. 20:23around Phoenix Arizona and any part of
545. 20:25town and I can say I built that I built
546. 20:28built that I did that that entire
547. 20:31subdivision of 700 homes out there I did
548. 20:34all the Land Development for that I
549. 20:37there's not a street around that I can't
550. 20:39drive around and identify a project that
551. 20:41I've had my hands in and it's just it's
552. 20:43a great feeling it is a great feeling no
553. 20:46that's absolutely wonderful because you
554. 20:48can see the
555. 20:50tangible results of your hard work and
556. 20:52dedication exactly so what would you
557. 20:55consider your most meaningful project
558. 20:57and why um most meaningful project I did
559. 21:01um I I've I've done a lot of uh
560. 21:03volunteering work and stuff like that
561. 21:04and so you know Habitat for Humanity is
562. 21:06just a great thing I like going in and
563. 21:09just helping them out um I haven't done
564. 21:11it in a few years because I have other
565. 21:13volunteer things that I do but Habitat
566. 21:15Humanity is is kind of one of those
567. 21:17things where it's just I have a skill
568. 21:20that I can really help them out with um
569. 21:23so that was good I I I enjoyed I enjoyed
570. 21:27Habitat for Humanity stuff
571. 21:29so if you could give advice to your
572. 21:32younger self or if you want to give
573. 21:33advice to Future project managers excuse
574. 21:36me future project managers like these
575. 21:38students that are watching this
576. 21:40interview what would you want to tell
577. 21:41them um I think that the biggest thing
578. 21:44is is that you know the technical the
579. 21:46technical aspect of of project
580. 21:47management is is phenomenal um and you
581. 21:50need that technical expertise there's no
582. 21:53question about it because I couldn't do
583. 21:55what I do without that teex technical
584. 21:57expertise
585. 21:59but the most important thing you have to
586. 22:01be able to do is be be a person that can
587. 22:03get along with people because you deal
588. 22:06with every style of person across the
589. 22:09board um I am a huge fan of not
590. 22:14self-help books I guess you could say or
591. 22:16anything like that but I have read um
592. 22:19Dale Carnegie's uh how to win friends
593. 22:21and influence people probably 15 times
594. 22:24um yes it was done in the 30s and it's
595. 22:27an old book and everything else like
596. 22:28that but the simple fact is is every
597. 22:31concept that he has in that book you can
598. 22:33bring to work and you will
599. 22:35succeed well thank you so much top for
600. 22:37taking the time to share your
601. 22:39experiences your wealth of knowledge for
602. 22:41our students and for this um for your
603. 22:44work in the construction industry and as
604. 22:46a project manager so thank you so much
605. 22:48thank you very much appreciate it all
606. 22:49right