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Pickleball facilities are struggling. This private equity group has the solution. — Transcript

by The Fail First Project · 7,144 words · 1,065 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00They put all this time and effort into
0:02that, but they forget what really is the
0:05soul of a facility. Oh boy, that's a
0:08tough one. I would say my greatest
0:10failure would be tennis. I had the
0:13failure would be I received a shoulder
0:15injury at the age of 27.
0:18>> Can you give people insight into what
0:20Pickleball X is as well as like where
0:21you've come from to be there?
0:23>> Right. So, Pickupball Kingdom is a
0:24franchise.
0:25>> Uh we fit under that umbrella as an
0:27entity Pickupball X. We will have seven
0:29clubs at the by the first quarter of
0:322026. Okay. That we will own and manage.
0:35Uh
0:35>> obviously so many of us talk about it
0:37blowing up, right?
0:39>> What was it about pickle ball, the
0:41growth of it, even the fine um the
0:44equity that's being poured into it to
0:46establish a private equity group like
0:48Pickleball X that sees Pickleball
0:50facilities as a great investment today?
0:53Why invest in Pickleball Kingdom
0:55specifically over these other
0:57franchises? What were some of these
0:58other facilities missing from a
1:00profitability standpoint?
1:02>> They told me that a magic number is 10
1:04when it comes to court. Is that a true
1:06thing?
1:07>> They put all this time and effort into
1:09that, but they forget what really is the
1:12soul of a facility.
1:18>> All right, Travis. So, this is the Fail
1:20First. So, there's an opening question
1:22that we start every single podcast with,
1:24and you can imagine it has to be geared
1:26around failure. Okay,
1:27>> so that question is what is your
1:29greatest failure?
1:30>> My greatest failure.
1:32>> Yes.
1:32>> Uh boy, that's a tough one. I would say
1:35my greatest failure would be tennis.
1:38>> Okay, tell me why.
1:40>> Yeah. And the reason I say that is, you
1:42know, tennis being what it was some 30
1:44years ago and the boom of tennis, it's
1:46very tough. Um getting into not only as
1:49a junior but also later in life
1:52coaching. Um but as a junior um it was
1:55very I had early success due to having
1:58certain skills. I had the failure would
2:01be I received a shoulder injury at the
2:04age of 27
2:06>> which required me you know a month off
2:09recovery and stuff like that. In doing
2:11so, excuse the alarm. In doing so, um,
2:16what I learned was a lot of off-c course
2:19stuff, meaning, you know, the tennis
2:21industry and all, you know, being a good
2:24player, being kind of, you know, have to
2:28be kind of put back together. It also
2:30taught me the gift that I had and to be
2:33humble. So that failure early on, injury
2:36and really climbing that mountain as a
2:39player again was a big thing about 27 28
2:42years old.
2:43>> First off, I want to say for you to be
2:45able to still collect that thought with
2:46the alarms going on is pretty
2:48impressive.
2:48>> I do my best. Very impressive.
2:50>> I know, right?
2:51>> Um following up with that for everybody
2:54listening to get a little bit of your
2:56background and understanding of where
2:57you've come from. You've obviously been
2:59in the tennis space. You are the
3:02director of pickle ball, not at
3:04necessarily Pickleball Kingdom, but
3:07Pickleball X,
3:07>> correct?
3:08>> Can you give people insight into what
3:09Pickleball X is, as well as like where
3:11you've come from to be there?
3:12>> Right. So, Pickleball Kingdom is a
3:14franchise. It's out of Arizona. And
3:17that's kind of the big umbrella, right?
3:19Uh we fit under that umbrella as an
3:21entity, Pickleball X. Yeah. And
3:23Pickupball X, we own and manage Pickle
3:26Ball Kingdoms that we choose to open,
3:28being one here in Manchester. We will
3:30have seven clubs at the by the first
3:32quarter of 2026, okay, that we will own
3:35and manage. Um, and Pickleball X, I came
3:38on board uh March of this year.
3:40>> Uh, started out as just a GM of
3:42Centerville, Ohio's club. And during the
3:45journey of the next 60 days, it was
3:47determined if we're going to do this and
3:48on the scale that we want to do it, we
3:50needed a pickleball director. And
3:52fortunately, I was in the right spot at
3:54the right time and said, "Do you think
3:55you can do this?" Um, I can also say not
3:58only was I was the GM for the
4:00Centerville, Ohio location, but the
4:01Mason, Ohio, which is a little bit east
4:04of Cincinnati.
4:05>> Okay.
4:06>> Uh, so I've had a lot of experience
4:08within the last eight months here of not
4:10only the pickleball facilities, pickle
4:12ball programming, and you know, really
4:15just getting things up and running.
4:16>> Were you always in racket sports to some
4:20extent? Yes. throughout your entire
4:21career or was there any blips where you
4:23went in a different path and then came
4:25back to tennis and then pickle ball?
4:26>> Yeah, so my first love was baseball.
4:28Okay. Um I was mostly my father was um
4:31you know big fan of baseball. So and I I
4:35knew early on and my father knew early
4:37on I had somewhat of a talent, good hand
4:38eye, fast, whatever. So my first love
4:41was always baseball. But then when I
4:43developed tennis, my parents always
4:45loved tennis. It was, you know, kind of
4:46the 70s. They played a little bit and
4:48dabbed. Um, and I was fortunate enough,
4:50my good friend in elementary school, um,
4:53his uncle ran a local tennis club.
4:56>> Okay.
4:56>> So, I got exposure about the age of
4:58eight or nine to tennis, but club
5:00tennis, and I just fell in love. And so,
5:03for a while, there was a parallel
5:04between tennis and baseball. Um, and
5:06then my parents were really good at
5:08exposing me to everything else.
5:09Basketball, soccer, um, which I'm a big
5:12advocate for parents to do is give the
5:14their kids six or seven sports and then
5:17let it funnel down to that one or two.
5:19>> They're not specialized.
5:21>> Yeah.
5:22>> What? So, one, I completely agree with
5:25that. I I think that pickle ball is a
5:27super unique sport where so many
5:29different sports translate to it and I
5:31think that's why it's taken off so much.
5:33With that being said, is Pickleball X
5:35like a private equity group, so to
5:37speak?
5:38>> Yeah.
5:38>> What about pickle ball? Obviously, so
5:41many of us talk about it blowing up,
5:43right? Talk about it being the next
5:44sport on top of the big five
5:46>> or the big four, so to speak.
5:48>> What was it about pickle ball, the
5:51growth of it, even the fine um the
5:54equity that's being poured into it to
5:56establish a private equity group like
5:58Pickleball X that sees Pickleball
6:00facilities as a great investment today?
6:02Right. It all starts with the community,
6:04right? Yeah. Um, you know, tennis for
6:05many years had established that
6:07community from a wreck level to a club
6:10level. So, I think what we see with
6:12Pickleball X is that's kind of the the
6:14setup and the dream here is to grab that
6:17wreck level uh that we see at local
6:20parks and establishments that haven't
6:22had the indoor and I mean true pickle
6:24ball indoor um uh experience compared
6:28to, you know, having mobile nets on a
6:30gym floor or like a tennis facility that
6:33has mobile nets and, you know, makeshift
6:35lines. But, you know, a facility like
6:37this, this is a state-of-the-art 20 by
6:3941 pro cushion court with great lighting
6:41and fencing. That's the step for
6:44Pickleball X is to bring the wreck and
6:46the pickleball community together at
6:48these places and give them the
6:50experience within the club.
6:51>> Yeah,
6:52>> that's really the mission of what we're
6:54trying to do. So then my follow-up
6:56question would be what there is there is
6:58many franchises out there now in the
7:00pickle ball space
7:01>> as well as individual family-owned
7:04facilities that are some of them doing
7:06well, some of them not doing well.
7:08>> Why invest in Pickleball Kingdom
7:10specifically over these other
7:12franchises?
7:13>> Right. Um that was something the group
7:15uh did before I got on. Uh they did
7:17their research of other franchises. I
7:19think the big thing with Pickleball
7:20Kingdom is there's two things. One, they
7:22do believe in community. Yeah. Um, and
7:24that is this, you know, not only from
7:26Pickupball X, but from Pickupball
7:28Kingdom. The other thing is the
7:29technology. If you look around, we have
7:31TVs per court, right? And I don't know
7:34if we could see, but we have iPads, we
7:36have buttons. So, the technology, what
7:39they have now and what we going to add
7:42down the road, it was a no-brainer. Um,
7:44because again,
7:45>> indoor facilities, you have the same
7:47court size, you have the nets, fencing,
7:50lights, but what's going to separate
7:51you? And we believe the drive of
7:54community one that Pickleball Kingdom
7:56you know has established and trying to
7:58establish but the technology as well
8:00that they start with this foundation as
8:02you see it's going to be huge. It really
8:04is.
8:04>> Is there anything from because I agree
8:07with you we're now in this position
8:08where there's a lot of nice facilities
8:10being created right a lot of good
8:11courts. Um lighting is good.
8:14>> Um like you said technology I think is a
8:16huge next step. Beyond that, is there
8:19anything structurally, whether it's from
8:21a program standpoint, etc., that a lot
8:24of these facilities are actually getting
8:25wrong where there's a lot of these mom
8:27and pop shops that are stepping in,
8:30saying, "Hey, pickle ball's blowing up.
8:32This is a great investment to go and
8:33open up a facility, maybe has two
8:35courts, maybe it has five." What are
8:38they missing that something like
8:39Pickleball Kingdom is having a lot of
8:41success with?
8:41>> Yeah. So, right off the bat, I call it
8:43the Kevin Cosner effect, and that's the
8:46movie Field of Dreams, right? Everyone
8:47thinks if you build it, they will come.
8:49Well, it's not true. Um, and I think a
8:52lot of facilities within the last two or
8:53three years have tried to do that. They
8:55might have state-of-the-art, the best
8:57courts, the best lighting. They put all
8:59this time and effort into that, but they
9:02forget what really is the soul of a
9:04facility. Yeah. And, you know, bringing
9:06the community together, yes, that's
9:07important, but what brings the community
9:09together is the programming and the
9:11experience that you consistently do at a
9:14facility.
9:15>> Yeah. running great open play, socials,
9:18um just that vibe when you walk in the
9:20door, you're happy to be there, not only
9:22because it's pickle ball, but the group
9:24of people you've brought in and the
9:25culture you've set at the facility,
9:28that's what's going to separate
9:29everybody.
9:30>> Yeah.
9:30>> And it's really that simple where you
9:32will have places that are doing well
9:34based on those principles. The ones not
9:36doing well, well, forget about it. So
9:39the there was a facility that I was
9:41talking to locally to that when I was
9:43trying to pick their brain on
9:45>> what were some of these other facilities
9:47missing from a profitability standpoint.
9:49>> They told me that a magic number is 10
9:52when it comes to courts. Is this true?
9:54Because I see we're sitting here we have
9:5611 courts, right? I'm pretty sure every
9:58pickle ball kingdom has at least 10
10:00courts or more. Is that a true thing?
10:03>> Yeah, it depends on what you want to do
10:04for a franchise. Yes. I think the magic
10:07number is 10 and up. And you got to
10:09watch it, right? If you have too many
10:10courts, that's a lot to manage. Um
10:13there's, you know, the formula to
10:14profitability. You can base it off
10:16square footage. It's real estate, right?
10:18>> X amount of quarts versus X amount of
10:20space
10:21>> is X amount of money you can make over
10:23time. Yeah.
10:23>> Um you know, you can do that and look at
10:26an Excel sheet. However, when you go
10:29back and we talk about the early success
10:31and the ability to sustain, you know,
10:34sustain success is you got to focus on
10:37the top line. Yeah.
10:38>> You know, everyone's so preoccupied
10:40about the bottom line, bottom line. And
10:42my philos philosophy has always been
10:44whatever I've done sports, whatever, is
10:46focus on the top line.
10:47>> Yeah.
10:48>> Get those things right. Look at, you
10:50know, have that strategy, focus on
10:53developing that strategy, the culture,
10:55the people, developing the community. um
10:58those things at the top line if you
11:00focus and manage those that bottom line
11:03will follow that possibility that you
11:05know that experience that growth will
11:09follow but if you flip that you're
11:11always focused on the bottom line you
11:12foresee and forget about what gets you
11:15there.
11:15>> Yeah. It's really that simple.
11:17>> What it sounds like to me, which is in
11:19like uh if you use like a marketing lens
11:21on it, right?
11:25>> People [snorts]
11:27like to be guided and have a plan,
11:29right? So, from a marketing standpoint,
11:31from a funnel standpoint, it's like once
11:33I've accomplished something, what's
11:34next? Like what do I do next? Um, it
11:38sounds like to me structure and guidance
11:41from the first time they step into this
11:43door is a huge thing in order for them
11:46to know the exact plan that they're
11:47going to go through to go from the 25 or
11:50below that they may be stepping in the
11:52door to them being the four player
11:54competitive in open play.
11:55>> Right. And that's the thing where pickle
11:58ball does mirror uh tennis a bit with
12:00the rating system. You know, people here
12:02in pickle ball, new to pickleball, they
12:04hear the term duper, right? go, "Oh my
12:06god, what's duper?" Um, Duper, yes,
12:09there's a lot of talk, there's a lot of
12:10controversy. However, for clubs to
12:14leverage Duper and use Duper as a
12:17developmental
12:19process for everything, for your
12:21programming, meaning everything when
12:22they step in to get involved with Duper.
12:25Don't be afraid of it, but have your
12:28developmental path built for duper and
12:31your guidelines built for open play,
12:34your roundrobins built with it. It helps
12:36with that path where people say, "Hey,
12:39I'm here. I'm a 3.0 plus." Yeah.
12:41>> How do I get here?
12:43>> Well, how to get there is here's what we
12:45have. And the programming is cohesive
12:48using duper. Duper's not going away. If
12:51anything, duper is at its early stages
12:53and it's hard. you know, they they're
12:55building they're trying to gather all
12:58these people and the algorithm and the
13:00play and it's always changing as it
13:03should be. Yeah.
13:04>> Um when you see the future of duper
13:07again you go back to the historical data
13:09with the tennis industry they did USA,
13:12United States Tennis Association and
13:14they had a USA rating system. That
13:16rating system was forever 40 years to
13:19where when you step into a club people
13:21talk about USA and you go how do I do
13:23that? Well, you got to play. Oh, well,
13:25how do I play? Um, so the same thing in
13:27pickle ball, but the beauty thing about
13:28pickle ball is there's more open play
13:30itself, right? If you can get a
13:33cohesive, organized group of people
13:35together, like this place, 11 courts,
13:37and divide them up by level, and someone
13:39goes, "Wow, two weeks ago was over here
13:42on courts one and two, but I did this
13:45clinic. I did this group. Now I have
13:49improved my play to where I can compete
13:52now at a 35." That's what you want to
13:54see. Yeah.
13:54>> And that's the beauty of pickle ball.
13:56>> Yeah. And where where this is so smart
13:59is
14:03>> a lot of people um that I talk to cuz
14:07obviously I'm very involved in the
14:08pickle ball space these days
14:10>> that are coming in that are brand new.
14:12Let's say it's my mother to this point.
14:14>> Uh I could actually use her as a true
14:15example.
14:17She goes in, she does a pickle ball 101
14:19class,
14:19>> right? And then after that it is like
14:23what do I do next?
14:24>> Do I go take a lesson with a coach which
14:26they dabble in
14:28>> but then it's covering the gap where
14:29like
14:31>> she's fearful of open play and may only
14:32play with her friends at the rec park
14:34park right
14:34>> because she's ready to be judged feels
14:36like she doesn't have the skills yet to
14:38develop
14:39>> and if there was a a gap there that can
14:42be covered
14:43>> I feel like you'd streamline people to
14:45easily want to move into the duper
14:47system because now they can see the
14:48progress that they're making. It's more
14:50of a measurement of progress than it is
14:53some status symbol,
14:54>> right? And that's the thing where tennis
14:56again they started with the progress and
14:58development then you know like anything
15:00else there is a status to hey I'm a four
15:02five or 50.
15:04>> However from the club level you
15:05mentioned the gap right pickle ball 101
15:07I come in I've played a little bit of
15:09wreck I've hit in the gym
15:11>> and then we have what's this 35 3 0 open
15:15play this gap. So, what we've developed
15:18at Pickle Ball Kingdom is a program
15:19called NextStep.
15:20>> Yeah.
15:21>> Nextep. It was developed basically on a
15:24mission by our CEO to say, "Hey, come up
15:26with a package deal for people just
15:29starting out."
15:30>> Yeah.
15:30>> You know, a package deal. So, as a
15:32member, non-member, with that pricing,
15:34you can get a selection of We do it
15:37three ways. It's three things. A
15:39fundamentals class, a kitchen class, and
15:41a coached open play. [clears throat]
15:42with those classes, those three classes,
15:46>> when that member or potential member
15:48comes out of that class, they know how
15:51to play.
15:52>> Yeah.
15:52>> They can go to an open play. So once
15:55they do 101, we hook them with that and
15:58then they decide if they're not members,
16:00at least they've developed to where they
16:02can play pickle ball and put a paddle in
16:05the rack. So that's kind of the ring cry
16:07with NextStep is get the player to where
16:09they can go to any open play in the
16:11country or the world and just put a
16:13paddle in a rack and they know what to
16:15do.
16:15>> Yeah,
16:15>> that should be the mission.
16:17>> You know, and you know you if you just
16:18marginalize it to just the club, well,
16:21when they go to a different club,
16:22they're like, "Oh, I don't I don't know
16:23what to do." But if you do it as on a
16:24general, they will learn and respect and
16:27more importantly that will attract more
16:29people to come in for your programming.
16:31People go, "Oh, wow. What are you doing
16:32there?"
16:33>> Yeah. you know, look, we do these three
16:35things. It's four hours, you know, three
16:37classes. Come in and let's prepare you
16:39for your pickle ball journey.
16:41>> It sounds like the two big pillars are
16:42both guidance, meaning kind of like a
16:46step-by-step playbook.
16:47>> Yeah.
16:47>> As well as community to find success. So
16:50if we were to dive into community a
16:52little bit more because I think this is
16:53what gets a little bit misunderstood
16:56>> like developing a a good community. What
17:00are like the characteristics of that or
17:02the pillars that you need in order to
17:04build a good community at a pickball
17:06facility?
17:06>> Right. So the pickball community it is
17:08what it is, right? It could be
17:10everything from the ravage player, the
17:12wreck player, the new player. But the
17:14community is again it's bringing a large
17:17herd of people together, organizing
17:19them. The pillars I would just really
17:21say is I, you know, when we develop a
17:23club, you look at really three sections.
17:26You're looking at generations, right?
17:28>> You look at baby boomers, Gen X, uh,
17:31millennials, Gen Z. Just for those
17:33examples, you got that column. The other
17:35column, when I look at a pillar of
17:37community, then I look at the level.
17:39>> So the way to grade your club is with
17:42those two columns. What generation is
17:44your top? I would say what four or five
17:47years ago it was what? Baby boomer,
17:49right? Yeah.
17:50>> So knowing that your community, your
17:53programming and everything would have to
17:54shift the community because the majority
17:56were what? Baby boomer.
17:58>> Now you're seeing what? Gen X came in
18:00like myself. I'm a Gen X guy and we're
18:03coming in. We're coming in tennis. We're
18:04coming in with different sports. But
18:06then you got these millennials and then
18:08you got the Gen Z who are coming in. And
18:10the Gen Z is the most important
18:11generation. And I'll tell you why. They
18:13will be the ones to lead the community
18:15because they've started out in their
18:1620s, right?
18:17>> Yeah.
18:18>> They've started just like my parents did
18:20in in the 70s, late 60s, early 70s
18:22playing tennis to where as I was born,
18:26>> those parents did what? We want to get
18:28them into tennis. So then the 80s the
18:30late '8s boom of the tennis in USA
18:34that's me the major pillar of pickle
18:37ball for the next 15 20 years will be
18:40the Gen Z and millennials who are
18:42playing this game on three to four days
18:44a week once they have kids what are they
18:46going to want to do
18:48>> and you know that's a whole other
18:49subject is you know really pickable
18:52hasn't even tapped into the youth
18:53program yet uh there is a code to break
18:57yeah
18:57>> uh we we are constantly ly looking at
18:59it. It is a challenge for us in southern
19:02Ohio, but we're looking at it the
19:03breaking the code throughout Pickleball
19:05X and Pickleball Kingdom.
19:06>> I think it'll be really cool to see
19:10how that plays out, meaning the youth
19:13generation that is now coming in.
19:16They are no doubt taking it and grabbing
19:19it by the reins and running with it like
19:20wildfire, right? But how does that shape
19:23meaning when I think about I'm a hockey
19:26background.
19:26>> Yeah. When I think about like travel
19:28hockey,
19:29>> completely different than like if you're
19:31saying in town football, right?
19:34Completely different. I would just say
19:35actually similar to soccer. I would say
19:37soccer and hockey kind of follow a
19:38similar demographic from a youth
19:39standpoint.
19:41>> Um like do you see it moving into travel
19:45teams
19:46>> where you have these travel teams
19:47competing against clubs? Each club has
19:49their own type of youth program. They
19:51have their own team. They have their
19:53competitive team as well as each team
19:55below that. Do we see it following like
19:56the AAOU even basketball standpoint? I
19:59think it was may have been CFC in
20:01soccer.
20:02>> Yeah.
20:02>> Um and then in hockey you kind of have
20:05like your tier one, tier two programs.
20:06Do you see it following that route?
20:09>> Yeah. I mean there's a couple ways you
20:11know MLP is big major league pickle ball
20:13and that format number one is great to
20:15watch. Number two it's phenomenal play.
20:18I've done MILP which is the amateur
20:21>> and that's what really hooked me on
20:22pickle ball. Um but that format and that
20:26magic of having a team I think is what's
20:29going to propel not only the adult side.
20:31>> Yeah. locally. When you talk about
20:33community, you know, here's the other
20:35thing you with community is uh when you
20:38have multiple clubs opening, which will
20:40happen, you've got to come together,
20:42right?
20:42>> And to make associations of inner club
20:46and that will generate so much play
20:49business and just the pickleball game in
20:51itself.
20:53With that being said, if you look on the
20:54youth side, answer that question. Yes. I
20:57mean, what kid number one, pickle ball
20:59you play doubles more than singles,
21:00right? Yeah,
21:01>> especially us old guys. I I I
21:05hit a couple
21:05>> Gen X isn't too old.
21:07>> I know, but it's not I always say it's
21:09not the age, it's the mileage.
21:10>> I have a lot of mileage from other
21:12sports. However, um that's the
21:15attraction for kids.
21:17>> I can be on a team. I can have a
21:19partner.
21:19>> I have a doubles partner to where now
21:22they have a team like MLP where you
21:25have, you know, really what four people.
21:28you could probably have eight as a
21:30roster. That will be attraction for not
21:32only kids but parents because look what
21:34their kids are doing. They're actually
21:36doing something but they're doing it in
21:37a team format where tennis again that
21:40history of tennis was great but it was
21:42what is a single.
21:43>> You know junior tennis you did a lot of
21:45doubles
21:46>> and but to progress you played a lot of
21:49singles most of the time. It was more of
21:51a 7030. Yeah.
21:52>> Where pickle ball it's flipped. It's an
21:538020. Most of the kids are playing
21:56doubles, which is great because it
21:58develops the singles game as well. So
22:00that team format for the juniors is
22:02going to be massive.
22:03>> So if you had to if you pick a ball X,
22:07obviously you're doing a lot of
22:08projections, especially as a private
22:09equity group,
22:10>> right?
22:11>> What are we seeing as like the three to
22:14five things? It seems like youth is one
22:15of them, right? these youth competitive
22:17programs
22:18>> that all their pickle ball facilities as
22:20well as pickle ball kingdom is looking
22:22at as here is where we need to invest in
22:25or even get exposure to from a marketing
22:27standpoint so that we can have growth
22:30continuously over the next 5 10 15 20
22:32years
22:33>> right so the the big thing with the
22:34juniors is the junior program and the
22:37establishment of really with those
22:40juniors is the junior MLP so the juniors
22:43is our focus on that
22:45>> you know getting that going. In the
22:47other thing with the adults, again, it
22:48goes to on a local level with inner
22:51clubs and more of a national level. You
22:54know, we have what, Pickupball USA.
22:56>> Yeah. you know, you've got all these
22:58associations that need to come together,
23:00make one, and have a governing body to
23:03develop the national uh side of pickle
23:07ball to where MLP style club, you know,
23:11USA like in tennis again to where if the
23:14season starts nationally in the
23:17wintertime, say like uh Febru
23:22October, and you run October all the way
23:24through March,
23:26and there's a season you're playing
23:28other clubs. Um, but it's a national
23:30thing, you know, ratings, the scoring to
23:33where you can then go from a district
23:35level to a sectional level to more of a,
23:38you know, Midwest, then to a national
23:40level. So,
23:42>> those are things we look to invest in
23:45locally for adults, meaning the inner
23:48club and being ready when USA announces
23:50the team format, the juniors, and then I
23:52I think the other thing we're investing
23:53in is the programming. Um when we say
23:55programming it's like okay there's more
23:57to just open play
23:58>> the developmental path for you know
24:01clinics and all that but really you know
24:04your social and your round robins right
24:06there's pickle ball is fun because it's
24:08quick right um we focused on inville
24:11Ohio on an MLP style called the kingdom
24:14clash
24:15>> okay
24:15>> and we it was a test on okay we're going
24:19to use that format and try just attract
24:22local we ended up with 10 teams And it
24:25was really neat to see that we could
24:27pull this off, but not only pull it off
24:30for a weekend of time, but this could be
24:34the format we choose to go moving
24:36forward for Interclub and hopefully USA
24:39Pickle Ball adapts as well. So, if we
24:42guess this correctly, we'll be ahead of
24:44the curve.
24:45>> Yeah. Are you guys having conversations
24:46with like USA Pickle Ball about stuff
24:48like that?
24:48>> We have not. I'm sure there's
24:49conversations. Um, that's something USA
24:51Pickle Ball should be. um
24:54>> trying to get a bunch of input about
24:55>> right input um and you know again with
24:58all these clubs opening within the last
25:00three years and I think in the next two
25:02to three we should have some
25:04establishment of that national and again
25:07it would be in my opinion it's USA
25:10pickle ball and duper coming together
25:12with that rating system to where it's
25:14nationally known to where there is a
25:17path for leagues for the wreck player
25:20coming into club right that's what's
25:22happened the last five or six years it's
25:24been wreck wreck wreck wreck be it from
25:26outdoor to a gymnasium to now you're in
25:28a a nice facility
25:30>> can you take that wreck player make him
25:32into a club player
25:34>> but you need a little help
25:36>> talking about kind of building on the
25:38conversation like looking at the future
25:40>> we're currently in Manchester
25:42Connecticut
25:43>> there's a reason obviously that not only
25:46Pickleball Kingdom but Pickleball X
25:48decided to choose this area as a
25:51facility in Connecticut
25:52>> is there other hot beds that you guys
25:54are recognizing that may be I'll say
25:57overlooked because I don't think
25:58Connecticut specifically would be on
26:00many people's radars when they're
26:01looking at hotbeds but like what may be
26:03some of those o overlooked hot beds that
26:06you guys are seeing across the nation
26:09>> right so you look at the seasonal aspect
26:11of it right you know again where
26:13Pickball Kingdom came from was Arizona
26:15and people go why would you need a
26:17pickle ball indoor well it's hot right
26:20>> um that's the other side of the coin you
26:22It's hot. I need coverage. I need to be
26:24cool.
26:24>> Air conditioning,
26:25>> right? To where you go to the other side
26:27of the coin, which you have like the
26:28Midwest and up here in the Northeast
26:31>> and it gets cold.
26:32>> Yeah.
26:32>> I mean, look, we're experiencing the
26:33weather yesterday and today
26:35>> to where you have this demand, right?
26:38And it it really comes down. It's simple
26:41real estate 101. Supply and demand.
26:43>> Yeah.
26:44>> Find where the demand is and see where
26:47the supply is at
26:49>> and then you find those locations based
26:51off that. And then it's location,
26:52location, location. If the demand's not
26:55there, not saying you don't want to go
26:57there, but you might want to look
26:59somewhere else.
27:00>> Um, but to me,
27:04it's the indoor facilities are going to
27:06boom in the cold weather areas. Simple
27:09as that. Midwest. And let's not forget
27:12it doesn't it's not so much with pickle
27:13ball about the temperature, right? Or
27:16the sun. It's the wind. M
27:19>> uh I was, you know, I was lived up in
27:21Cleveland for about 20 years and so I
27:24started my pickleball journey outside
27:25with my son just playing singles. Like
27:27this is fun game. He learned it in gym,
27:29right? But what we learned was kind of
27:32sucks. It's windy. So where's an indoor
27:34club?
27:34>> It's a completely different game.
27:35>> But that's how I got started. Uh ran
27:36into a longtime tennis pro said we have
27:38an indoor I'm like whoa indoor facility
27:41for pickle ball. Sweet. That's what I
27:42mean. You have to remember at the end of
27:44the day at a wreck level, club level,
27:46and a pro level, you are hitting a
27:48modified whiffle ball. And we're seeing
27:50on the pro level there there's
27:52conditions where, you know, be it in
27:54California, Florida, Arizona, it gets
27:56windy, man, to where they're converting
27:59some of these outdoor facilities to
28:01semi-indoor
28:02>> to control the wind.
28:04>> So again, it really comes down to supply
28:06and demand and location. The last thing
28:09that I want to talk to about from like
28:11where you guys may be seeing future
28:13investments
28:14>> is I think it's called the pickle ball
28:17paddle battle. Is that what it's called?
28:18>> The reality TV that we're going to be
28:20doing within the pickle ball kingdom
28:23community.
28:23>> Right. Right.
28:25>> Why was that a chosen avenue? Cuz it's
28:28it's super interesting. It's definitely
28:30really cool. But why was that a chosen
28:32avenue as like a way for Pickleball
28:33Kingdom to get exposure? I I can tell
28:36you that was the brainchild of our CEO,
28:38Ace Rodriguez. Um, it was just announced
28:41about a week ago and it's been hitting a
28:43lot of social sites and everything. We
28:45know very little about it besides what
28:48pretty much you probably know is what it
28:50is. It's basically the housewives of
28:52pickle ball with pickle ball kingdom.
28:54Yeah.
28:54>> Um, and the the you know, the experience
28:56from beginning to end being the end
29:00traveling and playing pickle ball local
29:02tournaments and what have you. So, is it
29:05like is the way that I thought I saw it
29:08framed at first is like is there like a
29:10route to the pros here to some extent?
29:12Like do you get a contract at the end of
29:14this or is it just like how I'm
29:16intermingling in a house like MTV Real
29:19World and then playing pickle ball at
29:21the same time?
29:21>> It sounds like it for again we just got
29:24it. Um I don't know all the details but
29:26it does seem like an MTV Real World.
29:28>> Yeah. to where uh again, don't quote me
29:30on this, but you know, a couple can win
29:33a franchise. Um I believe something like
29:36that. Do not quote me on that, but I
29:38know at the end of the rainbow there's a
29:40bucket of gold. I just I don't know the
29:42>> winning something a lot of that.
29:44>> But I think the big thing out of this is
29:46seeing the journey.
29:47>> Yeah.
29:48>> That it's like everybody watches, you
29:50know, the reality TV stuff, no matter
29:52what the subject matter is, is the
29:55journey from the first episode to the
29:56last. And it's really the intention and
29:59obstacle
30:01>> that drives a story anyways. Yeah. So
30:03the what's the intention here? Does that
30:05player want to get good or they want to
30:07get a franchise? What's the obstacle?
30:09Well, you got to play. Yeah. You got to
30:11learn. So that's going to be really the
30:13story arc that I foresee um of this show
30:17moving forward. But then the exposure of
30:18Pickle Ball Kingdom being the one
30:20driving it will be, you know, fun to
30:22watch.
30:23>> I think it's just a really good uh like
30:25marketing play as a whole. I think it's
30:27I think it's just so unique, right? It's
30:29a huge separator. It's obviously already
30:31creating a bunch of buzz on social
30:33media. Talk about
30:34>> So, um I think sometimes the outside the
30:38box extreme creativity does better in
30:40the marketing world than you think
30:41>> every now and then.
30:42>> Yeah.
30:42>> Yeah. Uh you know, again, this idea I
30:44think it's just a what makes this idea
30:47great is
30:48>> you know, sometime again growing up.
30:51>> Yeah. Uh, and the time that I did, we
30:53were told that phrase like since I was
30:55like fifth or sixth grade, think outside
30:57the box. Think outside the box.
30:58>> To where as I got older, by the time I
31:01was in my 20s, it had flipped where, you
31:04know, we're thinking so far outside the
31:06box that we forget about focusing on the
31:08box itself.
31:09>> Delicate balance with
31:10>> Yes. I think this is what this idea,
31:12it's very simple. It's a reality TV show
31:15that will show beginning to end and
31:16we're looking at the intentions of the
31:19players and what obstacles they have.
31:21>> Yeah,
31:21>> that is the focus on it. To me, it's a
31:25great idea because it's so simplistic.
31:27And my question is, why has anybody else
31:29done it? So, hats off to our CEO uh of
31:32Pickleball Kingdom, uh, Ace Rodriguez.
31:34Great idea. And I I know how he is. He's
31:36very passionate about pickle ball. If
31:38this is his brainchild, he's going to
31:40drive this all the way home. It's going
31:41to be fun to watch. So we have one
31:44closing question on the podcast
31:46>> and you can imagine that we started it
31:48off with a failure and we end each one
31:50with a fear.
31:51>> Oh yeah.
31:52>> So moving forward, what is your greatest
31:55fear?
31:56>> Fear I would say the greatest fear of
31:58these I live with every day is these
32:01places fail. They fail the expectations.
32:04we fa we were failing on not only
32:07providing expectations but the
32:10membership that we're cultivating or the
32:12community are we getting it right you
32:14know that is constantly on my mind at
32:17every facility that I'm with or touch
32:20>> how not only how we can make things
32:22better but are we doing it right
32:24>> to build not for a week 60 days 90 days
32:27but we're talking 5 10 15 years out um
32:31that is the fear
32:32>> it you know it is the unknown known. But
32:35like I said, the magic sauce that I
32:38believe is to look at the past.
32:41>> Yeah.
32:41>> Take that and include it with what we
32:43have current now with pickle ball to
32:46where that can drive us to kind of give
32:49us a blueprint forward.
32:50>> Yeah.
32:50>> But the fear, you know, it's uh fear is
32:53a driver. The the the fear of failure,
32:55right, every day that some people
32:58crumble, but then some people you got to
33:00stand up every day and that's your main
33:02drive. I don't want to fail. I don't
33:03want these clubs to fail. I don't want
33:04to, you know, fail the community, pickle
33:06ball community, too. There's nothing
33:08worse than opening up a club and, you
33:10know, have a community being frustrated
33:12or upset they're not happy with that
33:14experience.
33:16>> I don't know if uh this connection makes
33:18any sense, but you could tell me. Mhm.
33:21>> Do you feel like your shoulder injur
33:24injury and bouncing back from that and
33:26moving forward through something that
33:28was probably a pivotal moment in your
33:29life
33:30>> is why you choose to run through fear
33:34and do it despite fear today?
33:36>> Absolutely. you know is the biggest
33:38thing sometime someone can have
33:41>> or go through is have something and then
33:43it's taken away for a period of time
33:45>> because we take you know it's you know
33:48you know a lot of pride uh you can call
33:50it being cocky
33:52>> but when something's pulled away you do
33:54humble a little bit
33:56>> and you take you look at it I took for
33:58granted a certain talent that I had and
34:01there was a time where I'm like I don't
34:02know if I'll ever get back and in some
34:04degree I have it um to where you So
34:07hitting a forehand was as easy as just
34:09taking a step forward where now even in
34:11pickle ball there's a little bit of
34:13thought to it. Um so that that would be
34:16the biggest thing is it was a for me not
34:20to take things for granted.
34:21>> Um and be a little bit more humble um
34:24but also be aware of what's been given
34:27and cherish that. Simple as that.
34:29>> I think that's a great way to close it.
34:31Yeah.
34:31>> Um Travis, thank you so much for coming
34:33on the podcast.
34:33>> Thank you for having me, man. I mean,
34:36>> great hitting session, by the way.
34:37>> Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say for anybody
34:38listening, like we hit before this, this
34:40guy is no slouch. He hits a perfectly
34:42fine forehand. I know he's thinking
34:44about it, but the forehand's still
34:46pretty good. Can roll the two, roll the
34:48forehand,
34:49>> uh, can hit the cut drops. I mean, it's
34:52just really good out there. But either
34:53way, I mean,
34:54>> you just gave so much insight today onto
34:57what the current pick wall is like,
34:59right? And even for like there's there's
35:01a lot of facilities listening that are
35:03totally also struggling that are going
35:05to pull something away from that may
35:07help them also be successful,
35:09>> right? And that's what we want to do. I
35:10mean, you know, there are there is going
35:12to be competition, but at the end of the
35:14day, it is the community of pickle ball.
35:16Let's grow it together.
35:18>> Um, and any information we can give to
35:20help that, why not share it? You know,
35:22why don't keep it in the vault. Yeah.
35:23>> Put it in the elevator. Push it down to
35:25people who need it. And so we can grow
35:28grow the game, grow the facilities and
35:31you know make people happy
35:32>> because in that retrospect like the
35:34total addressable market right now is so
35:36large.
35:36>> Yeah.
35:37>> And it's going to keep growing
35:39>> like if if that can be more of a
35:43teamwork aspect. The demand to your
35:46point is there.
35:47>> Right.
35:47>> Right. It's not like you're fighting for
35:49similar resources.
35:51>> Right. It's more about how do we as you
35:54mentioned earlier on to give the
35:56audience something that you keyed in on
35:58was like how do we one get them in the
36:00door which a lot of them are coming in
36:02the door naturally
36:04>> but then how are we giving them a road
36:05map that allows them to stay. It's more
36:08like like not forcing them to stay. It's
36:11that makes them want to stay because
36:13they know they're progressing which I
36:14think that's a huge takeaway out of our
36:16conversation today.
36:17>> Right.
36:17>> So thank you for so much all the value
36:19that you've given today. It was a really
36:20nice conversation and being vulnerable.
36:22So
36:23>> I, you know, I try to be as honest as I
36:24can, right?
36:25>> But I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

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