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Phone Addiction Scientist: Doing This Gives You An Hour Back Every Day! | Dr Sahar Yousef — Transcript

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0:00Every single time you switch your
0:01attention, you pay for it.
0:02>> Say multitasking is a myth.
0:03>> Yeah. So, what we are going to do is get
0:06a sense of the amount of time and energy
0:08that you essentially waste every single
0:09time you switch your attention.
0:10>> Okay. Let's do this.
0:11>> All right. Are you ready?
0:12>> Yeah.
0:12>> Get ready. Go.
0:14>> Oh my gosh. This is a show. [music]
0:16>> Done.
0:16>> Done.
0:17>> So, on a daily basis, theoretically, I'm
0:19losing 60% of my productivity just by
0:21switching between two different types of
0:22tasks at once.
0:23>> Yeah. And over 2 hours a day is the
0:26average now of how much time is being
0:28wasted bouncing between screens and
0:30different tasks. If we stay this
0:32distracted, we will live a life that we
0:34don't like living.
0:35>> So what is in this book?
0:37>> We're going to go through the box. I'm
0:38going to teach you all the science for
0:39productivity and human performance
0:41because I know that the default settings
0:43of all of our technology are designed by
0:45people like me to maximize engagement.
0:48For example, the infinite scroll is like
0:50going to a buffet and just [music]
0:51opening your mouth and there's just an
0:53assembly line of food and candy just
0:55going straight in. There's no back stop.
0:57But we can use reverse neuroscience to
0:59reverse this entire thing.
1:00>> Where's the first place to stop?
1:02>> First, put your phone in gray. Research
1:04from my lab shows grayscale makes the
1:06phone less neurologically stimulating.
1:08And we [music] saw on average people
1:10spent 1 hour less on their phones every
1:12single day. That's 7 hours a week. Next
1:14is choosing long form over short form
1:16content. If we have too much short form,
1:18your attention span is shot. You
1:19literally feel shittier and your brain
1:22operates at a lower level.
1:23>> I can see in your productivity toolkit,
1:26there is a clock.
1:26>> Yeah, this is a huge huge game changer
1:28in terms of productivity, but also there
1:30was a focus sprint to help people to do
1:32up to two times as much as they would
1:34otherwise do. And we can talk about
1:36biological prototypes that dictate the
1:38ideal time you should be doing your
1:40focus sprints. But also, I have another
1:43amazing thing to strengthen your mind
1:45and make you better at focusing. So, I'm
1:47going to teach you all this stuff.
1:48>> Okay? So, let's get into it.
1:49>> So, the first thing we ought to really
1:50focus in on is
1:52>> here is a strange fact. Most of the
1:55people watching this right now, about
1:5658% of you, aren't yet subscribed to
1:58this channel. Statistically, that is
2:00probably you. So, could I ask you a
2:02small favor? If this channel has ever
2:05given you any value at all, please could
2:06you do me a favor and hit the subscribe
2:08button? It costs nothing. It helps us
2:10more than you could know. And the bigger
2:11the channel gets, as you've seen, the
2:12more we can invest in the guests and the
2:14production. So, thank you so much and I
2:16hope you enjoy this episode. [music]
2:21Dr. Saha Ysef,
2:24what is the mission that you are on if
2:27you had to try and capture it in a
2:29couple of sentences and why does it
2:31matter to the people that are tuning in
2:32and listening right now? The mission I
2:35am on
2:37is to first and foremost
2:40bring science education to the world in
2:43a way
2:45that allows people to work more in line
2:49with how their brains and their bodies
2:51actually work best. This is my
2:53philosophy that there are fundamental
2:56laws of how the brain and the body
2:59actually work. And I always liken these
3:01things to the laws of physics. There are
3:04laws of physics. We don't question the
3:05laws,
3:07>> gravity. I don't ever wake up one
3:08morning and go, you know what? I want to
3:10do away with it. And I know that there
3:12are fundamental laws of biology, but we
3:15blissfully ignore these laws of biology.
3:18We don't teach kids when they're in
3:20school at an early age how their brains
3:22work so that they might be able to study
3:24a little bit easier, you know, find
3:26flow, actually be able to manage things
3:29like stress, physiological stress. We
3:31don't teach people the fundamentals of
3:32sleep. And my area of expertise is
3:35productivity. We focus so much on what.
3:38What's the deliverable? What's the
3:40long-term goal? What's the annual goal?
3:42What's the quarterly goal? What what
3:42what what? But not the how.
3:46>> How should we go about getting these
3:48things done? What is the best way in
3:50fact that a human being might sit down
3:53and have an innovative thought? Like
3:54truly like what's like let's for example
3:56the neuroscience of innovation.
3:59We're all obsessed. I'm from Silicon
4:00Valley. We're obsessed with sort of
4:02innovation, but we're doing that with
4:04this
4:04>> with our brains.
4:05>> With our brains.
4:06>> This is a biological system. Isn't it a
4:08good idea to take a step back and learn
4:10how the system actually works? I just
4:13feel like there's so much friction with
4:14how we're working and living today. And
4:17I would say the number one thing that
4:18seems to be getting in the way of all of
4:20this is at the moment technology which
4:24is such a shame because it's also and
4:27the most amazing piece of I would say
4:29modern human invention.
4:31>> You said innovation there. One of the
4:33things that innovators often think about
4:35is working backwards from the customer.
4:36I understanding the customer problem and
4:38then reverse engineering a solution from
4:40there. So I present you with the same
4:41challenge with my audience today. Having
4:44been out there as a public communicator,
4:45you've received a lot of feedback from
4:48people as it relates to productivity on
4:49what they're really struggling with and
4:51how they like describe it in their own
4:52words. How can they relate to everything
4:55you've just said? Like what are the
4:56words that in their head they're using
4:58to describe the problem that your work
4:59solves?
5:01>> I hear a lot about brain fog.
5:03>> Okay,
5:04>> that's a big one. I remember working
5:05with this female CEO. She said something
5:08that's always stuck with me and she's
5:09like, [sighs]
5:11I can hear my own thoughts again.
5:14That's always stayed with me. I'm like,
5:16where were your thoughts before? And
5:19that's the heartbreaking truth. I think
5:21people aren't we're not listening. We
5:23don't hear the inside of ourselves
5:25anymore. I think there's some sort of
5:28global discomfort with being with
5:30ourselves and we've been distracted
5:34completely 24/7. Like every little
5:38second and minute in between
5:41all of our tasks and to-dos and meetings
5:43and calls and this and that is filled in
5:46with technology and scrolling. We're
5:49just constantly consuming. And if you
5:52put yourself into that sort of setup and
5:54state, when is it that you your mind is
5:56supposed to say, "Hey,
5:59what about this?
6:02I can't cure cancer. That's not my area.
6:04I can't do some of the amazing things
6:06that people right now are working on,
6:08the problems that they're working on to
6:10make the world a better place. But in
6:14some small part, if I can help unblock
6:18people to go do the amazing things that
6:21they want to do in the world, if I can
6:24just bring the science
6:26of productivity and performance, of
6:29focus, energy management, attention, all
6:32of these things back into our lives,
6:35then this is my small part that I can
6:37help people do all of the amazing things
6:39that they want to do and still be happy.
6:42What is the experience and the reference
6:44points that you you draw from? Where did
6:45you study? What what is it you run now?
6:48What studies have you done?
6:50>> I'm the founder and managing director of
6:52the Becoming Superhum Lab, which is a
6:54lab focused and obsessed with
6:56productivity and human performance. Our
6:59goal is to help people get the most done
7:02in the least amount of time with the
7:04least amount of stress. I've done my
7:06entire academic career at UC Berkeley.
7:09My area of expertise is cognitive
7:11neuroplasticity. So how the brain
7:13actually changes and evolves. Key word
7:15there sort of that root plastic
7:17plasticity. So the brain is constantly
7:19changing and evolving and adapting. Uh
7:21and I'd like to tap into that. If the
7:24brain is constantly changing, evolving
7:26and adapting, that means it could be
7:28getting better. Which is why my, you
7:30know, my lab has colloquially been
7:31called the becoming superhuman lab
7:33because my area of interest is
7:36increasing things like your attention
7:39span, your memory, your general fluid
7:41intelligence. So these cognitive traits
7:44that we have and these cognitive skills,
7:46I want to increase the volume on all of
7:47those things. I want to make people
7:48better, faster, stronger. So that's
7:50that's what I've always been obsessed
7:51with. Wait, you can make me superhuman.
7:54>> I mean, yes. We have to define it,
7:56though. Of course. Yes.
7:57>> I think you're probably already a fair
7:59bit there.
8:00>> No, no, no, no, [laughter] no. There's
8:01room for improvement. Trust me.
8:03>> I I for myself as well, always. But I do
8:06practice quite a bit of what I preach,
8:07but there's, you know, we are human at
8:09the end of the day,
8:09>> but I would like to be super human.
8:11[laughter]
8:11>> Okay. [gasps]
8:13>> So, hopefully we can get we can do that
8:14today. You mentioned working with a
8:16female CEO there. What is the broad
8:17spectrum of people that you've worked
8:19with? I worked u with a lot of
8:21executives. One of the first execs I
8:24worked with um and I of course I can't
8:26say who but it's it's a fortune would be
8:27a fortune 10 company and I I used to do
8:30these observations. So I would let's say
8:33if I did this for you by the way
8:35>> you you know you'd say okay for the next
8:37couple of days I'm going to have this
8:38weird doctor lady this neuroscientist
8:40like follow me around and she's just
8:42observing me. Like I would notice like
8:44everything from what you're eating and
8:46drinking throughout the course of the
8:47day if you take breaks, how you work.
8:49I'd follow you to a bunch of your
8:50meetings, you know, I just like I'm just
8:52like with you for a bit observing,
8:54taking notes. And then we would do an
8:56overhaul and then I would intervene and
8:58then be like, "All right, we got to this
9:00is going to get changed up." And I I
9:02have this very distinct memory because
9:04this was a huge point of transition for
9:06my work. I'm sitting there in his office
9:08and it's a modern, as you might glass
9:11everywhere, you know. So he's sitting in
9:12a glass box in the middle of a busy
9:15floor. This is a fortune tech and he's
9:17the boss. So everybody can like you know
9:20he can see everyone, everyone can see
9:21him. So you've now put this human being,
9:23this extremely intelligent human being
9:24that controls billions of dollars and
9:27you've put him in a glass box. Now he
9:30also has and and mind you he's working
9:32on a deck for a board meeting. It's
9:35extremely important. He's pulling
9:37together data that different teams have
9:39sent him and he's looking at things.
9:41He's making pretty big decisions. And
9:43he's like, "Yeah, that's what I'm
9:44doing." I'm like, "That's fine. You do
9:45you. I'll be back here." And I see him.
9:48He's on his computer, but he has a
9:50second monitor. And the second monitor
9:52has his email open. And then he has two
9:54phones, personal and professional, and
9:56they're both face up right next to him.
9:57And he had an Apple Watch on. So, as
9:59he's sitting down to focus, it's just
10:01like,
10:04and then all of this is happening. And
10:06then there's people walking by. And then
10:08at some point his chief of staff like
10:10comes in and he's just like, "Excuse me,
10:12you know, don't forget this." And he's
10:13like, "Uh-uh." So he's sitting there. I
10:16swear, Stephen, he probably got 30
10:19seconds.
10:20You know, the average, there was a study
10:22done, 47 seconds is the average amount
10:25of time a knowledge worker stays focused
10:29on one screen before another one
10:31distracts him. If I told you, I want to
10:34give you a billion dollars and I'm here
10:36to support you, you know, and advise in
10:38any way that I can, but your goal is in
10:40fact, let's say, to cure cancer, and
10:42it's you. So hopefully you can galvanize
10:44the best minds from all around the
10:46world. How would you want them to go
10:48about trying to solve this global issue
10:53of such importance? Would you strap them
10:56up with an Apple Watch, a bunch of
10:58notifications, a Slack, and then litter
11:01their day with a bunch of meetings and
11:02calls and then hope that in the next few
11:04years they cure this thing?
11:07Ideally, you want them to be in an
11:09environment with a setup that is not
11:12distracting and like doesn't waste their
11:14best thinking. They don't like wake up
11:16in the morning and it's like, "Oh, hey,
11:17by the way, instead of thinking about
11:18that whole cancer bit, you need to jump
11:20onto this goal and we need to talk about
11:21this thing and we and it's just constant
11:24pingponging like this all day. What is
11:26this? Just sit down for 20 minutes and
11:29just focus."
11:31So, it's it's almost it's what's
11:32hysterical is I studied
11:36far more complex things than I find
11:38myself talking to people about, which is
11:40hysterical. We just need to focus on
11:42cleaning this up. That's why I call
11:44it digital hygiene. There are obstacles
11:47in the way of productivity and
11:51performance and focus. Forget becoming
11:53superhuman. We just need to become
11:56human. Like do we know do you all do we
11:58all understand collectively here how
12:00this human system works
12:03so that we can accept again those laws
12:05of biology? As you see, we come back to
12:07this. I am I can relate so much to
12:09everything you just said in part because
12:11I'm an executive but actually it doesn't
12:12really matter if you're an executive in
12:14this context because we all live in this
12:15very very noisy world. Um I want to now
12:18go through all of the solutions you
12:20called it getting all this out of
12:22our way cleaning up our digital and
12:24physical environments. There is a box
12:26here. This is
12:29[laughter] you can you didn't want to
12:31make it an app but there is some of the
12:33stuff you talk about is in this box. I
12:36guess as someone that wants to be able
12:39to do the best work of my life, think
12:40clearly, interview well, build
12:41businesses, innovate, be creative, all
12:43of those things that you were pointing
12:45at through your explanations. I want to
12:47know like where's the first place to
12:49start? What's the first domino? Like if
12:51I up my sleep, is that the Do I
12:53have to meditate? Like what is the
12:54>> There's one that I have to begin with
12:56the foundational, which you already
12:57mentioned yourself as sleep. That's
12:59true. the way that I by the way talk
13:01about sleep
13:03and I hope this visual stays in your
13:06mind and maybe the the mind of the
13:07listeners here [snorts] and I've had the
13:10interesting and distinct pleasure of
13:12having many a CEO and an executive who
13:15is haggarded tired especially the
13:17founders that are grinding uh come to me
13:19and ask okay I want to become 1% better
13:23and I find out that they're averaging 5
13:26hours of sleep a night like okay can I
13:28paint a picture for for you what this
13:30feels like. It feels like you've taken
13:32your car to the mechanic. And as a
13:34mechanic, I'm looking at it and the
13:35thing is on fire. Like it's literally
13:37like it's on fire. The flames are And
13:39then you're sitting there like unaware
13:40of the fact that it's on fire and you're
13:42like, "Can we soup up the engine?" I'm
13:44like, "Dude, let's put the fire out
13:45first. I don't even know where to begin
13:47to assess your baseline performance." So
13:50that's the thing. When you don't get
13:51enough sleep, and mind you, that's a
13:53minimum of 7 hours a night. If you're
13:55not getting enough sleep, it's impacting
13:57your cognitive performance, your
13:59emotional regulation. So, you'll be
14:01irassable, you know, in the office and
14:03with other people. Like the the system
14:05is messed up. So, sleep is for sure the
14:08foundation.
14:08>> Okay,
14:09>> we got to check that box. I would say
14:11next biggest thing that I will tell you
14:13right now, this is a global issue. It is
14:17impacting everyone from senior citizens
14:19to children. It's your relationship with
14:23technology.
14:27>> What is that?
14:28>> This is a phone lock box. So, we would
14:31theoretically put your technology inside
14:33and then lock it away from you. You want
14:35to do it?
14:35>> Yeah.
14:36>> Yeah. Go for it.
14:37>> Okay. Let me just make sure it's off.
14:39>> Like, let me just get rid of some of the
14:40things. [laughter]
14:42>> Okay. Turn that upside down.
14:43>> There we go. You don't necessarily need
14:45to get a lock box, but the point of
14:48something like this is for you as a
14:50human being and your brain as a focus
14:55machine, as a monotasking machine to
14:59actually be able to focus.
15:03Focus and attention are so fundamental
15:07to all things, personal and
15:10professional. behind you. That means any
15:13kind of distraction that is diminishing
15:16your focus is impacting your memory.
15:20Another word for memory is learning,
15:24right?
15:24>> Mhm.
15:25>> Attention and memory, by the way,
15:28they're it's impossible to divorce those
15:30concepts from one another. They're
15:32connected in the most connected way that
15:35they can be. The way that they're
15:38connected is you cannot remember
15:40anything that you do not attend to. You
15:43think about that. It is only things that
15:46come into your aperture of attention
15:48that you're aware of in the first place.
15:50So we cannot learn anything. We cannot
15:52remember anything unless we're paying
15:54attention. And attention spans our
15:58ability to sustain attention has been
16:02linearly decreasing since the advent of
16:05this thing.
16:06And I don't want people to think it's
16:08just phones necessarily. It's this it's
16:10notifications in general. And if you're
16:12monitoring the your inbox all day and
16:15it's constantly available to you, what's
16:18your plan for having deep thoughts?
16:20>> The rebuttal that comes to mind,
16:22although I don't even believe it, but
16:24this is the rebuttal that I think a lot
16:25of, you know, me and my listeners will
16:26be thinking right now.
16:28>> Yes, but what if something happens? I
16:31have my email open because maybe a big a
16:34big email comes in or I have my WhatsApp
16:35right there because maybe my fiance is
16:37going to tell me I need to let her in
16:38the house or something, you know,
16:40something's going to happen.
16:41>> Totally. Fires. So, we call them, right?
16:45Fires, urgencies. I get it. I'm a
16:47caretaker for both of my, you know, it's
16:49I I get it. I call these, by the way,
16:51VIPs. These are VIP notifications and
16:54messages. Can I paint a picture for you
16:56for a second?
16:57>> Yeah.
16:58>> We figured this out for mail. If you
17:01have an extremely important package
17:03coming to your house, how do we deal
17:04with this in the mail system?
17:07Somebody knocks. It needs a signature.
17:09Like, we're not leaving this outside.
17:11Somebody needs to be home. Knock knock
17:13knock. I'm going to come and get your
17:14attention. To me, that knock. You need a
17:16sign for this is a notification. That's
17:19the fire, right?
17:20>> And everything else, by the way, just
17:22gets shoved in the mailbox
17:23>> or left by the door.
17:26>> This is what I advocate for. We are all
17:28by the way smart enough. We should
17:30respect ourselves enough truly to demand
17:35better than the default settings
17:38that our apps, our email, our phones
17:41come with. The default settings of all
17:44of our technology are designed, by the
17:47way, by people like me.
17:51These are cognitive neuroscientists,
17:52behavioral neuroscientists that work at
17:54these companies to get you
17:57hooked because if you think about this,
17:59by the way, what's the bottom line for
18:01even Microsoft Outlook, forget like Tik
18:05Tok and like all of that. Just leave
18:07that aside for a second. Like the boring
18:08stuff that runs the world, email for
18:11those of us adults, right? What do you
18:13think the bottom line is when you have a
18:15company that has an annual contract with
18:17another company that installs things
18:19like Slack, things like just
18:21communication software? How do you make
18:24sure that you reup that contract? Do you
18:25show engagement at the end of the year?
18:27You go look look at these engagement
18:28numbers. Everyone is using everyone's
18:31constantly talking to each other 24/7.
18:33So you can't do what you do without us.
18:36So that means the way that these
18:38softwares and products are designed is
18:41for them to be as engaging as humanly
18:43possible. So, the default setting that
18:45your phone comes with, the default
18:46setting of every single app that you
18:48download on that phone of yours, the
18:49default setting of email, of any
18:52messaging software that all of our teams
18:53use, the default setting is there to
18:56maximize engagement, not to make your
18:58company more productive. These companies
19:00don't give a about your
19:01productivity. That's not their problem.
19:02That's your problem. You need to figure
19:04that part out. I'm a big advocate for
19:07thinking about this in the sense of
19:08default settings because it is in fact
19:13I have a sweet tooth. So think of a
19:15chocolate company,
19:17>> a candy company. What's the what is
19:20their bottom line? What do they want out
19:22of me as a customer?
19:23>> And when you say bottom line, for those
19:24that don't know, you mean profit
19:26incentive, right?
19:27>> Yes. Yeah. Okay.
19:29>> Their goal is to sell as much of their
19:32product as humanly possible. Is it their
19:35business or responsibility to think
19:37about whether or not I get diabetes or
19:39if I'm having trouble with
19:41overconumption? Not really. Well, the
19:43same is true for email. The same is true
19:46for any kind of platform. Its engagement
19:48is the currency. So everything from the
19:52little the sound that your email client
19:54makes when you send an email off, that's
19:57been tested tested of what will feel the
20:00best and sound the best to the human.
20:02Everything from the vibrate
20:04functionality that you feel in your
20:06phone has been highly optimized by
20:08people like me to keep you obsessed with
20:11the thing and addicted to the thing to
20:15increase your engagement on the
20:16platform. And so my big pushes in the in
20:20the goal of again productivity,
20:23the first thing we ought to really focus
20:25in on is getting rid of the drains of
20:28our productivity first. It sounds
20:31obvious, but it's totally not obvious
20:33that a productivity tools incentive
20:36actually isn't your own productivity. It
20:39is your engagement with the tool.
20:41>> Yeah,
20:42>> because you're totally right. When these
20:43companies report to investors or
20:44whatever, they have to show how much
20:46engagement I how much you used it. And
20:48it's almost like antithetical to the
20:49mission of the tool for them to be
20:53removing your distraction in that regard
20:56because engagement and distraction are
20:57like opposites
20:59>> in the way that you describe them. Like
21:00Slack is um distracting me under the
21:04premise that it's making me better at my
21:06work.
21:07>> Absolutely. which is why I sort of scoff
21:10when I when I hear some of these
21:12products and tools call themselves
21:14productivity software because I'm like
21:16well and I'm not suggesting right we
21:18don't need to communicate with each
21:19other I have team members in different
21:21time zones like we obviously need we've
21:23never as a human species been able to
21:25communicate and collaborate at this
21:26scale technology is amazing I'm not a
21:28leite what I advocate for is
21:32people telling themselves this mantra of
21:35I deserve better than the default
21:39I am better than the default settings.
21:41The default settings are not there to
21:42help you.
21:43>> So, what do you suggest then for someone
21:44like me who you know I probably spend 10
21:46hours a day on my phone according to my
21:48screen time. What shall I do?
21:50>> Okay, my my number one suggestion is
21:53especially because you yourself brought
21:55up the fear around missing important
21:57things,
21:58>> right? Again, I called, you know, the
22:00fires, the urgency, so on and so forth.
22:01Is I would recommend setting up what I
22:03call VIP notifications in both your
22:05phone, your inbox, every single
22:07different communication software. And
22:09what that means is you come up with your
22:11VIP list. This is your partner, your
22:13your if you have a boss, your boss's
22:15boss, if you're client facing or
22:16customerf facing, your top 15 clients,
22:18like these are your VIPs. And it's if
22:21for example, these numbers call me or
22:24text me, it pushes through the filter.
22:25There are no defenses. I need to get
22:27that immediately. I have three keywords,
22:30by the way, set up in my email inbox. My
22:33first name, I'm a little lucky. I have a
22:35more rare first name. So, if somebody
22:36says Sahar, I'm like, "Okay, you've got
22:37what is it?" You know, cuz otherwise,
22:40what's our reality, Stephen? Like, we
22:41are CCd on email chains with like seven
22:44other people sometimes and they're just
22:45talking to each other. I do not need to
22:46get a ping every single time Stacy and
22:50Steven are chatting with each other
22:51about something. They're solving their
22:53own problem. Like, I need to focus on
22:55leading. I don't need to be get like
22:57you're all figuring this out. And I'm
22:58not saying I do kind of want to be CCed
23:00sometimes. I need to be kept a breast of
23:01what's going on, but I don't need to be
23:03interrupted. My train of thought doesn't
23:06need to be interrupted when I'm finally
23:07sitting down to focus.
23:09>> A lot of people don't want to be rude,
23:11and there's so much social pressure to
23:13respond quickly,
23:14>> to say yes, to take the meeting, to do
23:17the thing, go to the whatever.
23:19>> So, I the question I was going to ask
23:20you is who is like the most focused
23:22person you've ever met in this regard?
23:24And then my my sort of sub question was
23:25like I bet they're I bet they're often
23:27seen as rude.
23:29>> Yeah.
23:29>> Or like I bet they have to develop a
23:31muscle um against people pleasing.
23:34>> Indeed. Yeah. I honestly probably the
23:37the first person that came to my mind is
23:39um honestly my husband. Yeah. [laughter]
23:41Who's a who's a faculty? He's here.
23:43>> No, he's in there, isn't he?
23:45>> Um besides me,
23:46>> you'll get a right to reply. [laughter]
23:48Like besides to me, he mostly he's a
23:51like his default his default is no. I
23:54have a sense everyone has a default. I'm
23:56a default yes person, you know, and he's
23:58a default no person. We run a company
24:00together, which by the way, two people
24:01at the helm that's default no, default
24:02yes, I think makes a really good balance
24:04because we debate it out.
24:06[clears throat]
24:06>> Everything becomes a discussion. I'm
24:07like, "Oh, this what a great
24:08opportunity. We should totally do this."
24:09And he's like, "This is not the
24:11objective. Stay on the object." I'm
24:13like, "Well, but this shiny new object
24:14and this thing and blah blah blah." And
24:15it's like, oh, impact and all of the
24:17things.
24:19>> He protects his resources and his most
24:22precious resource is his time. His time
24:25and his attention. I'll I'll I'll
24:27channel him. He'll say, "Yeah, maybe
24:28it's disappointing to some that I did
24:30not make it to that meeting." But I
24:32think people will find over time that my
24:35unique contribution to that meeting
24:38would have not been relevant. They were
24:39just fine without me. And the fact that
24:41I did not attend that meeting allowed me
24:44to sit down and finish this and do this
24:47thing and come up with this idea which
24:48is helping the entire ecosystem of work.
24:51>> I sat and interviewed Kevin Olirri and
24:53he said something to me which has stayed
24:54with me ever since. But I know it's also
24:56stayed with my listeners because they
24:57say it back to me out in the world. Um
24:59he talked about his experience working
25:01with Steve Jobs and also Elon Musk and
25:05he talked about this concept of signal
25:06versus noise.
25:07>> Yes. And he said Steve Jobs had the most
25:09remarkable ability to focus on the
25:11signal versus the noise. He described it
25:13as 80/20. And for the for anyone that
25:16doesn't understand the analogy, signal
25:17is like the most important thing I
25:18should be doing today. Noise is
25:20everything else. He says the thing about
25:21Steve Jobs is it was always like
25:25why are we talking about this? This is
25:26the most important thing. And then I I
25:29saw Johnny Ies being interviewed and
25:31Johnny Ives was describing Steve Jobs
25:34and Johnny Ives said the most remarkable
25:36thing about Steve is his focus. And he
25:40said focus isn't doing one thing instead
25:43of another. Focus is waking up in the
25:45morning and thinking something is a
25:47brilliant idea and with every bone in
25:49your body you know that that thing is
25:51brilliant and you want to do it and you
25:53say no to it anyway. He said, "Steve was
25:55the most remarkably focused person I
25:58have ever met." And he would often go up
26:01to Johnny Ives and ask him what he had
26:02said no to. And Johnny said he would
26:04have these sacrificial things that he
26:05wasn't remotely interested in anyway.
26:07And Steve would know that and push him
26:08even harder. Like what what have you
26:10said no to that with every bone in your
26:12body you knew was a brilliant idea, but
26:14you said no to it because we are focused
26:16on this. And the last part of that story
26:18is Kevin Olri said that Elon is the only
26:21person he's ever encountered that is
26:22more focused than Steve Jobs. Wow.
26:25>> And I I I really This is part of the
26:27reason why I'm so excited to speak to
26:28you because I want to be more like that.
26:30I want to get to 8020.
26:33>> So,
26:33>> you're well on your way cuz you've
26:34already given me your phone.
26:35>> I know that's anxious about
26:38>> I'm not even kidding though. This is the
26:39noise.
26:40>> You can either increase
26:43the signal or you can decrease the
26:45noise. What do you think is easier?
26:49>> Decreasing the noise
26:50>> for sure. As a first step. as a first
26:53step. Of course,
26:54>> I think that's actually what they do.
26:55And again, I don't know a ton about
26:56this, but I actually think that's what
26:57they did when they discovered the the
26:59radio was the job was to reduce the
27:03noise.
27:03>> Mhm.
27:04>> They never mention increasing the signal
27:06>> cuz it's rather difficult. It's it's
27:08possible.
27:08>> It's there.
27:10>> It's there.
27:11>> It's literally get the out of your
27:13life. We we now think that multitasking
27:16or context switching is a skill and we
27:19think you mentioned a term earlier on
27:21which I've never heard. Mono
27:23>> monotasking.
27:24>> You said the brain is a monotasker.
27:25>> Yeah, it's a monotasking machine.
27:27>> What did prove that to me? How this
27:29thing here? This is a monotasking
27:31machine.
27:32>> It is. Yes, it is. So, this entire
27:34system is designed for survival.
27:37Human beings are I always kind of joke
27:40and say we're not quite competitive in
27:41the animal kingdom.
27:43Like I mean I work out but I'm I can't
27:45fight off like an actual predator, you
27:47know? Like my nails aren't teeth my
27:49teeth aren't that sharp. It's we are
27:52kind of puny.
27:54But where we're not puny is this. So it
27:58is in my ability to strategize, think,
28:01and focus where I can outsmart
28:05predators. That's how human beings have
28:07survived. That's how we're running the
28:09world. Do you know about a third of the
28:11human brain like I and I say the the
28:14cortical real estate so real estate
28:15across this human cortex is dedicated
28:18just to looking and listening
28:22>> that's a lot just easedropping loud
28:26sounds anything that might come into
28:28view so we're designed to be
28:30hypervigilant to anything that might
28:32come in our environment which I mean
28:34think of an open office think of a
28:35typical setup where people are working
28:38like the example I gave with that
28:39executive literally sitting in a glass
28:41box with all the people that he works
28:43with walking by constantly and all this
28:46noise and he's trying to find the signal
28:49and he's trying to tap into the signal
28:50and I'm like no I want our species to
28:53keep advancing and I want us to advance
28:55as fast as humanly possible and I know
28:57we can but all the brilliance of
28:59humanity is currently being sucked away
29:02by these distractions.
29:04>> There seems to be as I was thinking
29:05about that there seems to be two ways
29:06that distractions find us. The first is
29:08the notification comes to us
29:10>> or the thing pings or whatever. The
29:11Apple Watch vibrates. The other is we're
29:13in the middle of work and we stumble
29:15across something which is a little bit
29:16difficult or tricky or a little bit
29:18uncomfortable and we go seeking out the
29:20distraction.
29:22So, you know, we might be in the middle
29:23of an essay, it's a little bit tricky
29:24and so we could reach for our WhatsApp
29:26and we're chatting in a group chat about
29:27the weekend.
29:28>> Yeah.
29:30>> Is that a true sort of accurate
29:32reflection of how humans behave?
29:35>> Yep.
29:36>> It is. cuz I was just thinking about my
29:37own behavior sometimes. Yes, ping. I
29:39don't have notifications on. Well, I
29:40don't have most notifications on, but I
29:42still find myself reaching for the phone
29:44every minute.
29:45>> So, the human brain is a it's a
29:47problem-solving machine. It's important
29:49to keep this in mind. So, I'll stack a
29:52few again biological laws here. That
29:54brings us to understanding why we all
29:58all have a tendency towards what I would
30:02consider to be avoidance of discomfort.
30:05Now, discomfort. Let's list out some
30:08uncomfortable feelings. Overwhelm,
30:11stress, anxiety, confusion.
30:15What are some other ones? You feeling a
30:16little depressed, little FOMO, lonely.
30:19What are some other ones?
30:20>> I think you you nailed it.
30:22>> Those are all the ones.
30:23>> Yeah.
30:23>> Um anger, you know, frustration. Your
30:26brain also, by the way, is your friend.
30:28It doesn't if you don't want to feel
30:29them, your brain is you and doesn't want
30:31to feel them either. Your brain is
30:33designed to help you and problem solve.
30:35So, it goes, "Well, we're overwhelmed.
30:38this. How do I avoid this?" So,
30:41it's going to try to solve the problem.
30:44Now, there's two ways to solve what
30:45you're overwhelmed about, right? You
30:47could either deal with it head-on, which
30:48sounds like a heck of a lot of work, or
30:50you could avoid it. No. Emotional
30:52avoidance.
30:54Now, what's the fastest and easiest way
30:57in the modern world we can avoid what's
31:00going on inside of us?
31:02Tik Tok, Shake Shack, pornography. Uh,
31:06>> so we we immediately go numb. And I
31:09think normalizing that is the first step
31:12because what our phones have done for us
31:14is created an exit, a very fast, cheap
31:19exit to reality.
31:21>> I know you would have heard about those
31:23studies where they put people in a room
31:24and give them the opportunity to
31:26electrocute themselves. So essentially
31:28the study is people get electrocuted
31:30before the study starts and then they're
31:32put in a room on their own with a button
31:34that would electrocute them again. They
31:36describe before the study starts on
31:38average being willing to pay to not be
31:40electrocuted again. But once they're put
31:42alone with this electrocution button,
31:45many people continue to shock themselves
31:47over and over again. And in the study,
31:48men shock themselves more than women.
31:50one particular guy in the study
31:53electrocuted himself hundreds of times
31:56um when left alone and being asked to
31:58sit and do nothing. And the conclusion
32:00from the study is that we'd rather
32:02electrocute ourselves than sit alone in
32:05silence these days. And um do you know
32:08what? It sounds crazy, but in a way
32:11that's kind of what we're doing with our
32:12phones. In a way, when my phone dies,
32:15and I'm just going to be honest, cuz I
32:16don't think there's any point in me
32:17trying to pretend I'm something
32:18I'm not. When my phone dies, I it's like
32:22a mild feeling of anxiety when my phone
32:25dies. And I'm most certainly addicted to
32:27my phone. I spend an unbelievable amount
32:30of hours with that thing. I probably
32:31pick it up 200 times a day just to
32:33check. So, we're going to remove the
32:35phone when we're doing deep work. We're
32:36going to turn off notifications as it
32:38relates to the phone. Anything else?
32:40>> Yes. Okay. There's plenty. I liken what
32:44the tech big big tech essentially what
32:47technology has done to really honestly
32:51hijack the brain and make it addicted.
32:56I find that it is eerily similar to how
33:00the food industry got us addicted to
33:03sugar and processed food. My humble
33:06belief is that it's the exact same
33:08three-part framework and it's the
33:10playbook was copied nearly identically.
33:12We have obviously a fundamental need to
33:15eat. Now, if you look at the food
33:16industry, how might we hijack biology
33:20and the brain? Yeah, I know. E evil
33:22fingers work. How might we hijack the
33:26brain to actually get it addicted to
33:30sugar and to processed food if we know
33:33there's a fundamental need there? Well,
33:35how you do that is you increase the
33:37stimulation of the food. And you do that
33:39by actually just injecting sugar
33:42wherever you can. I'm not sure how it is
33:44in the UK, but if you in here in the
33:46United States, look on the back label of
33:48of pretty much any loaf of bread that
33:50you want to buy and there's sugar in it.
33:54I can bake bread. You don't need sugar
33:56necessarily to make a loaf of bread,
33:58>> right? It doesn't have to be a sweet
34:00loaf, but lo and behold, there it is.
34:02So, we're injecting all of this sugar in
34:04increasing the stimulation of the food,
34:06right? And that's how you can get
34:08somebody hooked. Now, why would humans
34:09be already sort of naturally addicted to
34:11sugar? Because food used to be scarce.
34:13It's hard to find. So, we're naturally
34:15going to be inclined to these things
34:16that are indicators of jackpots. Salt,
34:20fat, sugar. Yummy, yummy, yummy. It's
34:22how you make food really delicious,
34:24right? And we're all naturally inclined
34:25to to desire those things and covet
34:27those things and be really, really
34:28stimulated by them. So, what you do is
34:30you inject those yummy, yummy things.
34:31So, you're increasing the stimulation of
34:33your food. Oh, it's so amazing. Then,
34:35you decrease the friction. Let's make it
34:37easier for people to get this stuff. You
34:39make everything adorably packaged and
34:41portioned out so that and you make it
34:43easy and easy fast like fast food fast
34:45easily accessible and available all of
34:48the time. So you're decreasing the
34:49friction. You no longer need to make
34:51yourself something. You don't need to
34:52make a meal. We have fast food. It's
34:53right there right available. You open up
34:54a bar good to go. Then you decrease the
34:58satiation. You decrease the satiation by
35:01removing the parts of food that make
35:03food satiating. Because remember this is
35:05a fundamental need. I I'm hungry. I want
35:08to eat something.
35:10>> Satiating being full.
35:12>> Being full. Yes. My body needs things
35:14that would make me full. And what makes
35:15us full in food?
35:17>> Protein.
35:19>> Fiber. Candy.
35:22Nope. There's no protein. There's no
35:24fiber. So, the food industry has figured
35:26this out.
35:28Technology has done the same thing.
35:30They've done the exact same thing. They
35:31followed the exact same playbook. They
35:33increase the stimulation by increasing
35:36this color saturation of the icons and
35:38the light that's emitted from the
35:39screen. So that your actual technology
35:41looks more visually stimulating. And
35:44that visual stimulation, as we were
35:46talking about before, huge part of your
35:48cortex is your visual cortex, your
35:49occipital lobe. So it's super super
35:52stimulated by all of that color
35:53saturation. So it's like, oh my gosh,
35:54think of like a casino. You've never
35:56been to a casino and you're like, oh,
35:57they've went with neutrals.
35:58>> Yeah.
35:59>> You know what [clears throat] I mean?
36:00It's all the colors all the time, all
36:01the lights, it's all the things. So,
36:03it's stimulating and you keep looking at
36:05it. The other way that we've increased
36:07the stimulation with technology is short
36:09form reels,
36:11short form content, super super fast Tik
36:13Tok style, so that it's uber stimulating
36:17and you can't look away. And by the way,
36:19there's an entire field intermittent
36:21variable rewards. You get these jackpots
36:24once in a while, right? What's
36:26fascinating about the algorithm, by the
36:28way, and your algorithm, I'm sure, is
36:29exactly the same. Your algorithm knows
36:32you really, really well, and it knows
36:35what content you're going to love that
36:37day. So, it's got all this like saved up
36:39content for you. So, it's got like, ooh,
36:41Steven's going to love this. He's really
36:43going to love this because he even liked
36:45this thing like a week ago, like
36:47something like this. Okay. Okay. And
36:48it's got this treasure trove of stuff
36:50that it's holding for you. You get on to
36:52one of these apps and you start
36:54scrolling. It's not going to show you
36:56the stuff it knows you're going to love.
36:57Not in the beginning. That's bad
36:59business, don't you think? You just came
37:01into the store. You have all the energy
37:04in the world. You obviously have nothing
37:05better to do. So, you've now sat down
37:07and in the beginning I can show you meh
37:09content. I can just show you like in the
37:12beginning because I have your attention
37:15and it knows how long it has your
37:17attention. Every person is a little bit
37:18different. So, it knows how long it can
37:22just serve you up medium to like low
37:25entertaining content and interesting
37:27content before you say to yourself, "I'm
37:31done. This is boring. I'm going to get
37:32off and I'm going to do go do something
37:34else." It knows the moment you're about
37:35to do that. And right before you do
37:36that,
37:37>> hits you with a jackpot.
37:38>> Dio clip
37:40>> like that. Bang.
37:41>> Bang. Exactly. It's like there
37:43[laughter] he is. It's that Bartlett
37:44again and I can't look away. And
37:46>> people are watching this real right now
37:47and they're thinking this was the one I
37:49was just about to bounce.
37:50>> This is the one. You love this, right?
37:52You love this.
37:53>> But there's science behind this. I
37:54remember being 16 years old in
37:56psychology class and reading about the
37:57pigeons and variable rewards.
37:59>> Totally.
38:00>> What is this? What is this variable
38:02rewards uh phenomenon?
38:05>> Oh my gosh, it's so humans are
38:06fascinating. I find humans to be the
38:09coolest thing in the known universe.
38:10It's We're so ridiculous. [sighs]
38:14Human beings, believe it or not, do not
38:18love consistent reward.
38:22We become more addicted when it's in
38:24fact intermittent and somewhat variable.
38:27>> So, when we don't know when it's coming,
38:30but we know it's coming.
38:31>> Yeah, this is I have a whole theory on
38:32like people who are in toxic
38:33relationships. Like, seriously, think
38:35about like love bombing. This is the
38:37science of love bombing. Like, I'm an
38:38I'm an I'm like
38:39ghosting you and then bam, I hit you
38:42with a bunch of love. And people like,
38:43oh my. and then they become addicted to
38:44these toxic relationships.
38:46Similar concept. So the algorithm works
38:48exactly the same way. If it showed you
38:50every single thing that you wanted to
38:51see, by the way, only diary of a CEO
38:53clips. That's it. The whole feed for
38:56like 5 hours straight. It's just like
38:58bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Believe it or
39:00not, you'd be less likely to get
39:02addicted. We're addicted to like the,
39:05you know, just mess with me. I don't
39:07know when the good stuff's coming. I
39:08don't know when it's coming. This is how
39:09casinos work. This is how slot machines
39:10work. you lose. D you dude, you know
39:14that slot machines are programmed. It's
39:16a computer program. It's all math. They
39:19want you to lose a bunch of money, be in
39:20the red, and then have you make up a
39:22$150, and then be like, "Oh, I'm back
39:24in." And it this is the this is the
39:26game. This is the human game. So, the
39:29algorithm works exactly the same. That's
39:31how they increased the stimulation. So,
39:34then they also decreased the friction
39:36just like food. Here you have the
39:39infinite scroll. We've literally removed
39:41the back stops. Do you remember the
39:43early days of like YouTube and
39:45Instagram? You had to like you only by
39:47the way saw the things that you followed
39:49that you subscribe to. By the way,
39:51subscribe. But like this is the point is
39:53is is actually the subscription model
39:55allows you to curate your feed a little
39:56bit more and say this is what I want to
39:58see, not the rest of this
40:00Right?
40:01>> When people don't and so the algorithm
40:03will just be like this, this, how about
40:04this? How about this other thing? How
40:05about this other thing? It's just
40:06getting you to shop around. But most
40:09importantly, it's we've removed the
40:10backs stop. Now we have something called
40:12the infinite scroll. And the infinite
40:15scroll is like going to a buffet and
40:17just opening your mouth and there's just
40:19an assembly line of food and candy just
40:21going straight in. Right? There's no
40:23back stop. It's an it just keeps going.
40:25>> It used to be pagionation. It used to be
40:26like page one, page two, page three.
40:28>> Totally
40:29>> in the early internet. Now it's just
40:30infinite.
40:31>> There's no end. You're not going to
40:32reach the end of Tik Tok. It's not going
40:33to happen. I don't know if you remember
40:35this or if people remember this. There
40:36was an end. I remember when Instagram
40:38first came out, you would literally like
40:39run out of things to see and then just
40:40be like, "That's it. [laughter] That's
40:42all for today. Come back tomorrow for
40:44maybe maybe your friend posted another
40:46picture of their sandwich." Like you'd
40:48reach the end. There's no longer an end.
40:49So that's decreasing the friction.
40:52There's no friction anymore. It's just
40:53the neverending scroll.
40:54>> Mhm.
40:55>> Then they also decrease the satiation.
40:58This is extremely important, Stephen.
41:01Going back to that fundamental need for
41:04human connection.
41:06We have a fundamental need like the same
41:08need we have for food to be connected to
41:10one another to be social to feel a sense
41:12of belonging. What is social media has
41:15done is it's created the illusion of
41:18social connection because we have the
41:21data to support the longer you spend on
41:23these apps and on these platforms the
41:25lonier you are. So you're lonely. I'm
41:28disconnected. I'm at home. I have a
41:31sense of loneliness and FOMO and I want
41:33I'm seeking connection. I want to go
41:35meet this need. I have this fundamental
41:37need for connection and belonging, and I
41:38want to then go meet this need. So, what
41:40do I do? Well, the fastest, cheapest,
41:42and easiest way to do that is grab my
41:45phone. You get on and you think that
41:47you're meeting that need. It's like
41:48candy.
41:50So, you have, let's say you're hungry
41:52for dinner. Your body is craving things
41:54that actually make you full, nutrients
41:56that you need. But the thing is, if I
41:58gave you a bag of Skittles or something,
42:00then you might be thinking, well,
42:01Sahara, it's calories. Aren't calories?
42:03It's food, right? It tastes good. It's
42:06calories. And it's going to meet that
42:07need. I'm hungry. It's going to meet
42:08that need. Well, darling, what's going
42:10to happen when you eat candy when you're
42:11hungry? You've I'm sure you've done this
42:13before. At least I've done it. If you
42:14say no, then you're the healthiest
42:15human, and I must study you.
42:16>> Of course, I have. [laughter]
42:18>> But I I want to eat more Skittles later.
42:20>> Okay, there we go.
42:21>> That's the problem. If I have these junk
42:22calories, then in 6 hours time, I'm I'm
42:24back looking for more junk calories.
42:26>> Exactly. Shoots up, then everything
42:29crashes down. Another law of biology.
42:31What goes up must come down. And so what
42:33does this look like when we're
42:34scrolling? I seek a sense of belonging.
42:37I'm seeking also by the way stimulation.
42:38We have a fundamental need for novelty
42:40and learning which by the way I think is
42:42it podcasts do this be like think about
42:44the difference between some 30-se
42:48secondond reel that someone has made and
42:50then they inject like two quick facts
42:53versus sitting down and actually sinking
42:56into a multi-our show.
42:59>> You're attracted to both.
43:02One is a lot harder to sit through than
43:03the other. But what I'm telling you is
43:05this is what's actually going to satiate
43:07you. You have, we all do, have a natural
43:10fundamental need for learning and
43:13novelty because again, survival because
43:16this new piece of information might be a
43:18huge unlock for me to thrive even more
43:20in this world. This is the hijack of
43:23social media and short form content is
43:25you think you're getting that, but I
43:27promise you, just like with the
43:28Skittles, you end up getting off and you
43:31don't remember anything that you, by the
43:32way, you just watched. Test it.
43:35>> Seriously, I'm not kidding. Do the quick
43:37short form for a while and in the moment
43:40you're like, "Oh my gosh, I just learned
43:42a fun fact about this and this is you
43:43think you're learning." It's an
43:45illusion. What I believe we're, by the
43:47way, Stephen, up for right now is I
43:50think the world is waking up to this now
43:52and this is going to be the new big
43:56reverse UNO as I call it. They use
43:58neuroscience to get us hooked
44:00>> and I think [clears throat] we can use
44:01reverse neuroscience to reverse this
44:03entire thing. If they increase the
44:05stimulation, as we talked about before,
44:08you reduce it. And the ways in which you
44:10reduce the stimulation,
44:12one, if you keep your phone in gray. So,
44:14literally going into something like
44:16grayscale makes the phone less
44:18neurologically stimulating. So, it's a
44:20heck of a lot easier for you to actually
44:22get off your phone. You do this in
44:23settings. And again, this is, by the
44:25way, a beautiful example of the default
44:28settings are not here to help you. The
44:30default settings are here to help them
44:32make money off of your attention and
44:34your time. So, you are better than the
44:36default settings, Stephen. I am better
44:38than the default settings. Everyone
44:39who's listening, you are better than the
44:41default settings. push back against the
44:42default settings and put your phone in
44:44gray. When you do that, your phone is
44:46immediately it looks dead to you. It's
44:48way easier to not go from app to app to
44:50app to app and then do that thing where
44:52we mindlessly scroll, especially late at
44:54night when our willpower is low and then
44:56you're like, I'm just going to check for
44:57a second, just for a second. And then
44:59you find yourself just gorging
45:01essentially on this and binging on
45:03content. Have they ever tested that
45:05engagement with devices when they are in
45:08grayscale or in a different color
45:10saturation? Or is it just generally what
45:11the neuroscience points to?
45:12>> I've tested it. So in my lab, we took a
45:15large sample of healthy working
45:17professionals and all I did was turn
45:20their phones into gray and ask them to
45:21stay in gray for 3 weeks. That's it.
45:23>> Mhm.
45:24>> And we saw on average people spent 1
45:27hour less on their phones every single
45:28day.
45:29>> Wow.
45:29>> That's 7 hours a week. The way I always
45:32talk about that's the difference between
45:33you getting that workout in.
45:35>> Yeah, that's crazy.
45:36>> Do you know what I mean?
45:37>> That's crazy.
45:37>> When you go around and you talk to these
45:38busy people, they're like, "Oh, yeah.
45:40I'm trying to do this. I want to read
45:41that book. I want to listen to your
45:42podcast even, but I just don't have the
45:45time." Well, darling, just making this
45:47one tiny change will give you an hour
45:48back a day. That's 7 hours a week. Think
45:50about what you could do with that time.
45:52Next is choosing long form over short
45:54form.
45:54>> Thank you. [laughter]
45:56>> Did you hear that? She's from Berkeley.
45:58That's an amazing university. She's a
46:00doctor [laughter]
46:02>> long. No, it's true though.
46:03>> She also said subscribe if you didn't if
46:05you didn't get [laughter]
46:07>> No, but honestly, it's true. It's really
46:09It's not like made up. Short form
46:11content has even been shown, by the way,
46:13in some cases to increase attention
46:16span.
46:17>> Completely agree.
46:18>> Of course you do. Yeah. Yeah. It's like,
46:20no one's paying me to say this. But no,
46:22long form content like a film, like a
46:24good film, has been shown to increase
46:26empathy in young people. Just think
46:28about that. So, like again, the message
46:31is not, "Oh my god, technology is bad.
46:33All screen time is evil, blah, blah,
46:34blah, blah, blah." No, no, no, no, no.
46:36I'm a huge fan of your content diet.
46:38Like, make sure like whatever. If you
46:40want to sit down and watch a movie, sit
46:42down and watch a movie. Like, get into
46:44your pajamas, make a bowl of popcorn,
46:47like romanticize it, turn the lights
46:49down, you'll put Netflix on,
46:52everyone's also got the phone out, so
46:55they're doing two things at once. This
46:57has just become like we've accepted this
46:58apparently that you no longer have
47:00people's undivided attention. So the way
47:02in which we're making content now is
47:04assuming that someone is looking at
47:07something else as well.
47:09This is so sad. And please tell me how
47:13if this is how bad our attention spans
47:15have gotten, how are first of all kids
47:17supposed to learn in school? You told me
47:19that you have this interest in becoming
47:21superhuman to experiencing the full
47:23potential of your own mind. How are you
47:26supposed to do that if you can't even
47:27pay attention to a movie
47:29anymore? Do
47:30>> you know what's funny? I was watching um
47:32I was watching a complicated old movie
47:36>> last night.
47:37>> Complicated.
47:37>> It's one of those ones where if you miss
47:39a word the the next 3 hours is you're
47:42lost.
47:42>> Oh yeah.
47:43>> Because they're going to they've named a
47:45a planet
47:47and if you don't understand what is
47:49And I was think I was I was having
47:51to pay so much attention to this movie.
47:54And I remember this from my childhood. I
47:56used to just sit there on the sofa with
47:57my family and just look at the screen.
47:59But it was like I was resisting an urge
48:01now in 2026 when watching this very
48:03complicated old movie. Um as if there's
48:06now a mismatch between the media that
48:08I'm used to versus the way that I and
48:11many of us live our lives. And it's just
48:13it was just super front of mind cuz I
48:15just remember trying to like the the
48:17effort I was putting in to to stay
48:18focused on this movie last night and
48:21trying to make sure I understood every
48:22single word. But I never I never did
48:24that when I was younger. You would just
48:25sit there and watch.
48:26>> You just sit there and watch.
48:27>> There might be some people at some level
48:29thinking, "Yeah, but I love short form.
48:32>> So I love it.
48:33>> I love candy, too.
48:36>> If we have too much short form, we
48:38already know this. You're more
48:39depressed. You're more anxious. your
48:41attention span is shot. Like, why would
48:44you want that? You literally feel
48:46shittier and your brain operates at a
48:49lower level. Cognitively speaking, if
48:52you overconume this stuff, and it's your
48:53choice, by the way. I'm not here to tell
48:55people how to live their lives, but I
48:57want people to wake up to realize one,
48:58the fundamental needs are there. So, my
49:00goal is for you to meet those needs. And
49:02the way that you do that to increase the
49:04satiation is you actually go learn
49:06something new. You actually spend time
49:08IRL in real life with real human beings.
49:12Hold people, touch people, talk to
49:14people, have dinner parties, have
49:16conversations, hang out with your
49:17friends, your family, actually meet that
49:20fundamental need for social connection.
49:22And if you do that, you will notice that
49:25you're full and you're you will
49:26magically actually like short form less.
49:29you are far less likely to lose yourself
49:33scrolling until 2:00 in the morning and
49:34then feeling like the next day
49:36because you didn't get enough sleep.
49:37>> I think that feeling like the next
49:38day is a good way to navigate life,
49:41which I heard Jack Dorsey back in the a
49:43couple years ago when he was still at
49:45Twitter talk about one of them new
49:47metrics was reducing regrettable
49:49minutes.
49:51>> And this idea of like regrettable
49:52minutes I think is cuz with Skittles
49:54honestly they would feel good in the
49:55moment but I'd probably regret if I had
49:57a massive bag of Skittles. um probably
49:59regret it in a couple of hours, probably
50:00the next day because you, you know, send
50:02you on a bit of a roller coaster. And
50:04with platforms like Tik Tok, when you
50:07look at the data, they found that 60% of
50:10active Tik Tok users experience negative
50:13welfare and would rather live in a world
50:15where it didn't exist, where the
50:17platform didn't exist. It ranks as
50:19number one in terms of um regret in this
50:23regard um because people report that
50:26their time was distorted. they open the
50:28app and lost an hour or 2 hours and they
50:30walk away from it without clarity like
50:32what they gained. So um this idea of
50:36regret like okay Skittles taste nice it
50:38was it was cool to scroll for a second
50:39but how did I feel thereafter is
50:41something that I um I guess in the food
50:44analogy is pertinent.
50:45>> Yeah I'm telling you we're waking up.
50:48>> People are waking up.
50:49>> Young people are waking up. That's the
50:50that's the coolest thing. I saw the
50:52graphs from the Financial Times which
50:54showed time spent online had started to
50:56plateau since 2022 for young people
50:58first.
50:58>> Yeah, thank God. I mean, but listen,
51:02it's still a push.
51:03>> Yeah.
51:04>> So, the stats are less than half of
51:08graduating high school seniors have ever
51:10been on a date compared to what was I
51:13believe something like 80 or 90%.
51:17In in I would say our generation.
51:19>> Mhm. That's crazy. That's crazy. I think
51:23something like what is it a third of UK
51:25nightclubs are also now like engagement
51:28in the nightclub scene has gone down to
51:30a third. Dinner parties, there's this
51:32recent piece in the Atlantic that just
51:33came out about the sort of the death of
51:35dinner parties. So, people are spending
51:37increasingly more time alone
51:40and not with others. So, they're hungry.
51:42Unfortunately, these platforms are
51:45taking advantage of that perpetual
51:47hunger and keeping us locked into the
51:49cycle of distraction. And now, by the
51:53way, it's socially appropriate for us to
51:54always hold our phones. It's always in
51:56our pocket. So, one of the best things
51:58that you can do is actually to it is to
52:01introduce portion control back into how
52:05you are consuming content. Portion
52:08control. So, you increase the friction.
52:10You do things like that phone parking
52:12lot bit like put your phone out of
52:13sight, out of mind. Turn the
52:15notifications off. Turning the
52:16notifications off would be decreasing
52:17the stimulation. But increasing the
52:20friction is listen, if I'm telling you
52:22this stuff is addictive and you want to
52:26do less of it. Don't have it right
52:28there.
52:29>> It's like [clears throat] it's like it's
52:30like sitting down with a someone who is
52:33freshly trying to become sober as an
52:34alcoholic and just be like, "You don't
52:35mind if I just put this beer down in
52:37front of you, do I? Or do you? just as
52:40you're working and going about your day.
52:41>> I think the Skittles analogy is pretty
52:42good. Like I wouldn't walk around with
52:44Skittles in my pocket because if I did,
52:45I'd eat them every time I was stressed
52:47or
52:47>> Yeah.
52:48>> bored.
52:48>> Totally.
52:49>> So,
52:50>> this process is what I advocate. I think
52:53every young person in the entire world
52:55should learn this and know this. I speak
52:58mostly to older adults, so parents, and
53:01they're tired of being bad cop at home.
53:04They're constantly like, "Oh, get off
53:05your phone. Get off this. Get off that."
53:07So, I think this ought to be taught in
53:09schools.
53:11>> This has had probably the single biggest
53:13impact on my office. Of all the products
53:16that I've tried that have given me
53:18productivity gains or cognitive boosts,
53:20I would say that exogenous ketones are
53:23in the top three most pivotal things
53:26that have given me massive productivity
53:27gain. It's some Stanford graduates that
53:29have been able to basically bottle up
53:31the effect you get from being in a
53:34ketogenic diet in a small shot that you
53:37can take that makes you feel incredibly
53:39focused and gives your brain an
53:40incredible source of energy. And the
53:42clinical studies that have been done on
53:43exogenous ketones have absolutely blown
53:45my mind. I reached out to them. I became
53:47a coiner in the company. I became an
53:49investor in the company. And so, it's
53:50with great pride that I can tell you
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54:00second shipment. I still buy my ketone
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54:05thankfully, I can now grab them at
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54:19It's not. The biggest threat they face
54:20is hiring the wrong person for their
54:22small team because bad hires put the
54:24handbreak on growth and rapidly infect
54:27company culture. And I get it. When
54:29you're starting out, you need a players
54:30to grow your company, but you don't have
54:3240 spare hours to spend sifting through
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55:10and terms and conditions apply.
55:12What I really want um quite selfishly is
55:15like advice on how to do deep work
55:17better.
55:18>> Um because deep work is something that I
55:20mean all of my team have to do deep
55:21work. They have to edit code could be
55:23write. We're doing a lot more writing
55:25than ever before in part because of AI.
55:26So we're we're trying to push against
55:28that. But in a world that is so
55:30distracted where my phone is there. What
55:32advice would you give me for doing deep
55:34work predictably well? What we call in
55:38our lab and in our work deep work is a
55:40focus sprint. Now a focus sprint is a
55:43method of working. It's a method of
55:45working that according to research our
55:47research has allowed people to do up to
55:50two times as much as they would
55:52otherwise do while also reducing the
55:54number of mistakes. And you feel better
55:57because again you're working in line
55:58with your brain and your body. You don't
56:00have that sense of friction where it's
56:01like oh my gosh I'm exhausted you know
56:03after doing one of these sprints right?
56:05It feels good to do that kind of deep
56:07work. So focus sprint is a method. First
56:09step,
56:09>> how many steps are there in a focus
56:11sprint?
56:12>> Five.
56:13>> There are five steps.
56:14>> There are five steps.
56:14>> So this these five steps will make me
56:16200% more productive.
56:18>> Mhm. [clears throat] First, set aside
56:20time in your calendar in advance to
56:22block the time off. You benefit from
56:24essentially anticipatory networks in the
56:26brain and body. So if you know for
56:28example that you have uh a speech that
56:31you need to give a presentation
56:33>> what's the feeling that you get before
56:35like some big event or a big speech that
56:37you need to give like some butterflies
56:39you get this like increase in cortisol
56:40and adrenaline right I mean think about
56:42how how interest amazing the the our
56:44biology is I am sitting at rest
56:49>> and even though I am sitting at rest
56:51because I am anticipating that I'm about
56:53to get up and maybe do some public
56:55speaking my brain is going to help me by
57:00giving me an extra boost in cortisol and
57:03adrenaline and all these amazing things
57:04so that I'm a little bit more focused
57:06and high energy and I can deal with the
57:07thing because it's a bit of a stressor.
57:09So, you know, especially if someone has
57:10a fear of public speaking, they might be
57:11sitting there and they're like,
57:13>> you know, heart rate goes up, their
57:15hands start to get clammy. Those are all
57:16the markers of physiological arousal as
57:18we know them to be. So, we know that if
57:20you can, you know, a focus sprint is
57:22coming, you're going to get a little
57:24boost. Mhm.
57:24>> So, I'm a huge fan of set it up, know
57:26it's coming. Like, I'm going to sit down
57:27and I'm going to do a 1 hour focus
57:28sprint. Okay.
57:30>> The other beautiful thing about this
57:31from a team perspective is if your team
57:33can see your calendar, they can all see
57:35that you're sitting down to do a focus
57:36sprint cuz your calendar's public. So,
57:38it also deals a little bit with that
57:39social guilt people feel and that
57:41feeling that they need to say, I need to
57:44be responsive to all the things.
57:45>> And now that you've done that, you go to
57:47step two, which is you got to identify
57:50what the heck you're going to do and you
57:51need to define it. You need to break it
57:54down in clear, simple terms. So instead
57:56of saying, "I'm going to sit down and
57:57I'm going to work on X," unless you're
58:00going to finish X, that's not going to
58:02feel good. This has everything to do
58:03with dopamine. By the way, dopamine is
58:06the brain's primary, consider it a
58:08motivation molecule. So it's going to
58:10get us not only excited and motivated to
58:12do a task, but it's also going to reward
58:14us a bit if we really do more than we
58:17even expected, especially, which brings
58:20me to a few pieces of advice. one,
58:22you've got your massive to-do list. Yes.
58:24You're going to shop from that to-do
58:25list and you're going to say, "In this
58:27focus sprint, I'm going to take out this
58:28one piece, this one." So, you have your
58:30massive to-do list and you're like,
58:31"That's the one thing I'm going to focus
58:33on, right? Just this one." And then
58:35you're going to take that one and then
58:36you're going to break it down into
58:38small, manageable pieces. You're going
58:40to break it down and you're going to
58:42time block every piece. You're going to
58:43say, instead of saying, "Oh, I'm going
58:45to work on this deck. I'm not going to
58:46finish it, but I'm going to work on it."
58:48You're going to say, "I'm going to work
58:49on slide three for about I think it'll
58:50take me about seven minutes to finish
58:52that slide. Then I actually need to
58:53probably send a follow-up email to John
58:55for the data that I need for slide 17.
58:57Then I'm going to work on this table
58:59that I want to put here." And then blah
59:00blah blah. So, I want to see in granular
59:03detail what the execution list is. And
59:06this, by the way, increases your
59:08dopamine for getting this work done. If
59:11you're not going to finish it, how is
59:12that motivating?
59:14>> So, the goal becomes an output, not the
59:16input.
59:17100%.
59:18>> Okay, that's an interesting one because
59:19I think a lot of us do create a goal
59:22which is an input like I'm going to do
59:23I'm going to work on this thing or I'm
59:24going to I'm going to think about this
59:26or I'm going to strategize this. Not
59:29like the output which is the thing
59:31that's going to be measurable and come
59:32out of this work.
59:34>> Yeah.
59:34>> Okay. That's that's really interesting.
59:36>> It's the outcome with a breakdown. Like
59:38I want to see an execution list.
59:39>> That feels like a lot of work.
59:42>> I'm not kidding. Give me a minute and a
59:44half.
59:45>> Here's the problem. People start
59:47something and I'm sure you've
59:48experienced this too. Then the moment
59:50they get done with let's say step 1B and
59:54they don't immediately know what step 1
59:57C is or what step two is and it's not
1:00:00clearly outlined and it's not just hey
1:00:02execution mode like a machine they go
1:00:05[sighs and gasps] what's the next step
1:00:06what should I do next
1:00:08people that's when you lose people
1:00:10that's when you lose your focus
1:00:12>> in in deciding what the next step is
1:00:14this is a sprint I don't want you to
1:00:16figure out how to play the game when
1:00:17you're in the middle of the game we need
1:00:19to outline what the heck the game is and
1:00:21then you're going to go into it be like,
1:00:23"Let's go sprint." And we go, go, go,
1:00:25go, go. So, you've blocked the time.
1:00:27You've communicated to to the people on
1:00:28your team. They know what's happening.
1:00:29You're benefiting from all those amazing
1:00:31hormones and those anticipatory
1:00:32networks. Then,
1:00:34>> step two,
1:00:35>> step two, you set the goal.
1:00:37>> And the goal is an output and it's
1:00:38specific and it's broken down into sub
1:00:40goals.
1:00:40>> Yes. And by the way, you've got in here
1:00:45>> a diary.
1:00:47So, if you've got a daily planner of
1:00:49sorts, something like this, I want you
1:00:52to treat your to-do list, your massive
1:00:55task list, and I know you've got one, we
1:00:56all have one, like your refrigerator.
1:01:00Do you have urgent items on your to-do
1:01:02list? Like, what is the thing? Did you
1:01:03defrost chicken? Because that's a
1:01:04ticking time bomb that needs to get
1:01:06used. So, every single day, you wake up
1:01:08in the morning and you're about to
1:01:09choose what are my I call these, by the
1:01:11way, in our lab, MITs. your most
1:01:14important tasks. Your MITs or your most
1:01:18important tasks are the one, two,
1:01:19maximum three things on any given day
1:01:22that you would want to accomplish if you
1:01:24want your day to be a success.
1:01:26>> So, we've got a little chart there, I
1:01:27think, of the MITs, right?
1:01:29>> Yeah. Every single day, I want you to in
1:01:33a way open up the refrigerator, open up
1:01:35the [clears throat] pantry, open up the
1:01:37freezer, and I want you to ask yourself
1:01:39first, first, how much time do I have
1:01:42available today?
1:01:43>> 3 hours.
1:01:44That's a good day.
1:01:46>> That's a good day. Like uninterrupted
1:01:48focus time.
1:01:49>> Not uninterrupted, but I can make it
1:01:50uninterrupted.
1:01:51>> Beautiful. We'll take it.
1:01:52>> 3 hours is beautiful.
1:01:53>> Yeah.
1:01:54>> Now, you open up the fridge, the pantry,
1:01:56and the freezer, and you ask yourself
1:01:58with this 3 hours, what are my MITs?
1:02:02What are the most important tasks that
1:02:03if I were to do them today would make my
1:02:05day a success? Another phrasing for this
1:02:08that we've done research on is what will
1:02:11your future self thank you for?
1:02:16>> It's an interesting question cuz we
1:02:17often reach for the easiest things and
1:02:19there's the thing that we're not quite
1:02:21ready to do yet cuz we don't have the
1:02:23information and you know maybe it's a
1:02:24little bit out of our era of competence.
1:02:26We don't like finance. We don't like
1:02:28invest. We don't like operations. So we
1:02:30avoid that and we kind of you know it's
1:02:31like opening the fridge as you say and
1:02:33we reach for the thing that we know we
1:02:34love like and we do that
1:02:37>> those are lit
1:02:39like an email a docu sign right um I
1:02:45always say like toilet paper from Amazon
1:02:47or something like whatever like the
1:02:48little tiny things that will take 5
1:02:51minutes a couple minutes but it makes me
1:02:53feel like I can cross something off and
1:02:55it's like I've done the thing I've done
1:02:56the thing I've done the thing these are
1:02:57the easy things to
1:03:00that make me feel a sense of progress.
1:03:02We consider these, by the way, these lit
1:03:05fast dopamine.
1:03:08And my humble opinion is most of the the
1:03:12things that push our businesses forward,
1:03:14the things that push our lives forward
1:03:16are typically here to the right. They're
1:03:18the slow dopamine bits. Now, I'm not
1:03:21suggesting, by the way, that you don't
1:03:22do lit. My suggestion is you identify
1:03:26one, two, or a maximum of three MITs
1:03:29that are actually going to push you
1:03:32towards your goals, your long-term
1:03:34goals, the things that actually matter.
1:03:35And I assure you, the lit will fill in
1:03:38all of the other nooks and crannies for
1:03:39your day. Like if you've got an
1:03:40uninterrupted hour, that's when you
1:03:42attack one of these MITs. And then if
1:03:44you've got 15 minutes between some
1:03:46meetings and calls, you shove the lit in
1:03:47there.
1:03:48>> So MITs are most important goals. LITs
1:03:50are least important goals.
1:03:51>> Mhm.
1:03:52>> Okay. So, going back to the focus
1:03:54sprint, when we said step two is set the
1:03:56goal, what you would ideally do, and
1:03:58this is, by the way, you could do one of
1:03:59two different kinds of sprints. You
1:04:01could do a sprint on one MIT, and what
1:04:04you would do is you take that MIT, and
1:04:05then you would actually break it down
1:04:07into small, manageable chunks. Okay.
1:04:09Okay. In order for me to do that big MIT
1:04:11today in this 1 hour of time, I'm going
1:04:13to spend 20 minutes on this, 15 minutes
1:04:15on this, 5 minutes on this, 3 minutes on
1:04:16this, D. So, you make an execution list.
1:04:18Or you could do an LIT sprint. You could
1:04:20do like 15 lits.
1:04:22>> Are we assuming that people will know
1:04:24what the MIT is?
1:04:26>> Like,
1:04:27>> yeah,
1:04:28>> you I look at this list of 69 things on
1:04:30my to-do list. How do I Is there a way
1:04:32for me to know which one is the most
1:04:34important?
1:04:35>> If you don't know, then I would that
1:04:38would urge us to take an even further
1:04:39step back and sort of do [gasps]
1:04:42[sighs]
1:04:43a bit of awareness training on what your
1:04:45long-term goals are. Yeah.
1:04:47>> Where do you want to be both personally
1:04:49and professionally? Let's say in 5
1:04:51years.
1:04:52>> What is your Everest?
1:04:53>> What is your Everest?
1:04:55If you have a sense of what your Everest
1:04:57is, you then ought to have a sense of
1:04:59what your next step is. If Everest is
1:05:01that way, you're not going to go this
1:05:02way. That way is also quite dangerous.
1:05:05And I will say this, this is um [sighs]
1:05:08I'm a huge fan of talking about death
1:05:10because I find that it puts everything
1:05:12into perspective. My humble opinion is
1:05:14that the best framing is to really think
1:05:16about yourself on your deathbed. Is if
1:05:19you take yourself onto your deathbed and
1:05:21you think to yourself and truly by the
1:05:23way vis you can visualize this right now
1:05:25even with me. Let's say you're the
1:05:27tender age of 110 with all of the modern
1:05:30technology and longevity medicine that's
1:05:32going to come out. What looking back on
1:05:35your life do you need to have
1:05:39experienced,
1:05:41accomplished,
1:05:43done in order for you to leave with a
1:05:46smile on your face
1:05:48and to just say
1:05:50it's been real.
1:05:53I did good. Had an amazing life. I did
1:05:56what I wanted to do here and I'm ready
1:05:57to go.
1:05:59See what's next.
1:06:02What's your answer to that?
1:06:08>> I want to have loved
1:06:11>> deeply.
1:06:13[sighs and gasps]
1:06:14>> I want to and this is my own and I don't
1:06:18know where this comes from. We probably
1:06:19need a therapist um on with us to to
1:06:21unpack this one. But I'm a firm believer
1:06:24in servant leadership. I think I've been
1:06:26put on the planet to to help in whatever
1:06:28ways that I can. So my job is to serve
1:06:30and to make this world a better place in
1:06:32the with what I do and what I can bring
1:06:34to the table. And that's my obsession.
1:06:37And it's come at a great cost of not
1:06:40doing a lot of other things and not
1:06:42having a lot of what maybe other people
1:06:43see as fun or um personal sacrifices.
1:06:47But it seems to be uh the the flavor of
1:06:51my mind is that I'm squarely focused on
1:06:55building better systems for humanity.
1:07:00It was very um it was very clarifying
1:07:02when you asked me to do that as well
1:07:04because when I closed my eyes and
1:07:05started thinking about my deathbed, I
1:07:07was in a room and what I noticed was
1:07:10first and foremost who was there.
1:07:12>> That was like the first thing and then
1:07:13my second thing was what do they think
1:07:15of me?
1:07:16So there was like so I imagined my
1:07:20romantic interest being here and then I
1:07:22imagined all of my kids being around the
1:07:24bed and I imagined what they thought of
1:07:25their dying father.
1:07:27>> And there was really like three things
1:07:28that I wanted them to think. I wanted
1:07:30them to to think that I had achieved
1:07:31things so that they can too and to be
1:07:33evidence of that. Um the second one was
1:07:36around that I'd made the world a better
1:07:38place. So they had like they were clear
1:07:40on the philanthropic impact that that
1:07:42their father had had.
1:07:43>> Yeah. So that was really clarifying
1:07:44because it it basically gave me three
1:07:46clear priorities which are like family
1:07:48and having a big family. Um being a good
1:07:51role model to them and then them having
1:07:53evidence that me being here was net
1:07:55positive to planet you know. So that but
1:07:57it was really clarifying cuz there's
1:07:58really three things that matter.
1:08:00>> So that gives you your direction.
1:08:02>> Yeah it does.
1:08:02>> So if you wake up every single morning
1:08:05now with that level of clarity
1:08:07>> I can go the Skittles are not going to
1:08:09bring me closer.
1:08:11the Skittles.
1:08:12>> Yeah. the Skittles. Like what is
1:08:13that? Like in what way? Like who on
1:08:15their deathbed is sitting around and
1:08:19going, "Damn, I wished I watched more
1:08:22Netflix." Netflix, please don't come
1:08:23after me. Who's sitting around going,
1:08:25"Damn, I wish I spent more time
1:08:27scrolling and less time with my kids or
1:08:30less time on my mission, on my obsessive
1:08:34mission." Like, nobody. Um Bronny Wear
1:08:38is a hospice nurse
1:08:41and she sat with many many dying
1:08:44individuals. What an honor to do such a
1:08:46thing. Um something that I hope to do um
1:08:49in my lifetime as is to sort of be you
1:08:53know exercise my death doula skills and
1:08:55to to be with folks who are we're
1:08:57passing on and um what an honor it is to
1:09:00sit with them because oh boy you get
1:09:03some clarity. So she asked these people,
1:09:07[sighs and gasps]
1:09:08"What are your regrets?"
1:09:10And she would keep a log of the answers
1:09:13they gave.
1:09:15And the number one regret across all of
1:09:18the people that she asked this question
1:09:20to who were dying was, "I wish I lived a
1:09:23life more true to myself,
1:09:27cared less about what others thought."
1:09:29So for you, Stephen, it sounds like all
1:09:31that matters to you at the end of the
1:09:33day is what your family thought of your
1:09:36accomplishments and how you spent your
1:09:37time is how you think. And it's, by the
1:09:40way, it's not even them because you'll
1:09:41never really know what the other person
1:09:42thinks. We come into this world alone
1:09:45and we do die alone no matter how much
1:09:47we love each other.
1:09:49This is uh [snorts] one of the paradoxes
1:09:52I find of love and human connection is
1:09:54that from that first cry that a newborn
1:09:57screams out when they're born, they're
1:09:59crying out for connection. They're
1:10:01scared and they're saying, "Wait, I feel
1:10:03disconnection in this moment. I was
1:10:05connected before and now I feel
1:10:06disconnected." And they're seeking
1:10:07connection. I think humans, we are
1:10:11seeking this connection and this
1:10:12belonging
1:10:14for the rest of our lives. But the
1:10:16paradox of it, the mind of it if I
1:10:19may, is we'll never get it.
1:10:22We die alone. Like I will never
1:10:24understand
1:10:26your mind. This is the fascinating thing
1:10:28about consciousness. You have your
1:10:30consciousness. I have mine. And even
1:10:33moment to moment, my consciousness now
1:10:35in this moment is different than it was
1:10:37the last moment. I've changed.
1:10:40Things continue to change and evolve.
1:10:42The same moment never repeats itself,
1:10:44which means the same self never repeats
1:10:46itself. Every second that's going by, I
1:10:48am in fact Sahar v 100 million da da da
1:10:52da da da. And then the next moment it's
1:10:54another and the next moment is another.
1:10:55Like we continue to be dynamic. But
1:10:57that's its own little rabbit hole.
1:10:58>> But on that own little rabbit hole,
1:11:00there's there's moments.
1:11:02>> I completely agree and accept what
1:11:04you're saying. There are these moments
1:11:06when you just feel like your
1:11:08consciousness has
1:11:10>> is doing the tango with someone else's.
1:11:12It is intertwined and you can we as I
1:11:14say everyone can think of those moments
1:11:15when you look at someone and you go I
1:11:17don't know what it is but at some deep
1:11:19level me and this person are we're our
1:11:22consciousness is dancing.
1:11:23>> Yeah.
1:11:24>> It's connected and that's a very real
1:11:26thing. I experience it a lot on this
1:11:27podcast cuz you know I sit here with
1:11:29three hours talk about their childhood
1:11:30their trauma whatever
1:11:31>> you feel a deep deep sense of connection
1:11:33to this other human being. Sometimes
1:11:34it's almost it can be a spiritual
1:11:35experience in a weird but enjoyable way.
1:11:38>> I think you hit the nail on the head
1:11:39there. I think it's spiritual. I think
1:11:42it's energetic.
1:11:43>> Mhm.
1:11:43>> I think when we feel that experience of
1:11:47what by the way feels like flow, I don't
1:11:50know if it feels that way to you,
1:11:51>> but you feel in flow with the other like
1:11:54if you and I can connect in that plane.
1:11:56And I felt it, by the way, even when we
1:11:58were just doing that that bit about the
1:12:00deathbed and talking about consciousness
1:12:02and I felt you your eyes just all of a
1:12:06sudden zoomed in and I even was I wasn't
1:12:09really focused on you necessarily in
1:12:12that moment. There was something about
1:12:13me expressing.
1:12:15I think what is necessary for two humans
1:12:18to have that flow together,
1:12:23that energetic dance together is a loss
1:12:27of the sense of self. I think the self
1:12:30must die in those moments and it does
1:12:34when we completely lose ourselves in
1:12:36this we
1:12:38I think when we are stuck in our own
1:12:40self and identity then I am aware of
1:12:43another. I am aware of your perception
1:12:45of me
1:12:46>> and [clears throat] you will be aware of
1:12:47my perception of you.
1:12:49>> But I think those moments where it feels
1:12:51just magic and we've completely blended
1:12:55that I'm not no longer thinking about
1:12:57you as an other and I as I
1:13:01and you have become
1:13:04this energetic we.
1:13:08>> But again that bit more spiritual. No,
1:13:10but [laughter] it it perfectly dovetales
1:13:11into work because we can all think of
1:13:13flow states where we dropped into work
1:13:14and 3 hours passed. We had no idea that
1:13:16time was passing. We were so in and it
1:13:20it to some degree feels the same as
1:13:22those moments like when I'm really into
1:13:25my work. I just time does stop and I'm
1:13:27so glad it did. I didn't even notice
1:13:28time was a thing. And that's actually
1:13:30the same as being a podcaster. When you
1:13:32have really great conversations, you
1:13:33walk out and you go, "What? 4 hours?
1:13:34What the happened?" Like,
1:13:35>> yeah.
1:13:36>> So,
1:13:37>> okay. So you've set your goal, you have
1:13:38your execution list, you've taken your
1:13:40MIT, you've broken it down, you've made
1:13:42it as easy and simple as like a list of
1:13:45lit. Another way, by the way, to
1:13:47describe this is
1:13:48>> an MIT, slow dopamine is like a rat
1:13:51going through a maze, and there's a big
1:13:53hunk of cheese at the end of the maze,
1:13:54but that's a lot of work. That is a
1:13:56long, arduous journey to get to that
1:13:57hunk of cheese. Whereas fast dopamine
1:13:59and lits are like little bits of cheese
1:14:01that you're like, can you just eat that
1:14:03crumb? And it's like, sure, that seems
1:14:05easy enough. Eat right there. Right? So
1:14:07the goal is to make your MITs as easy as
1:14:10your a list of lits. And how you do that
1:14:12is you take that big hunk of cheese and
1:14:15you sprinkle it throughout the maze.
1:14:17>> So you make your big Everest seem like a
1:14:20series of one step to the next step to
1:14:23the next step. Loud Sue said it best. A
1:14:26journey of a thousand miles begins with
1:14:28a single step. Uh my husband just um
1:14:32climbed uh Mount Kilimanjaro.
1:14:34>> Oh wow. Um yeah, amazing things that I
1:14:36would do not choose to do. [snorts]
1:14:38>> You said no to that.
1:14:40>> I said no to that. That's exactly there
1:14:41is I do know how to say no. It's
1:14:43typically with really difficult physical
1:14:45feats. Um I have my own but I prefer the
1:14:48mental ones. But uh but yeah, he went he
1:14:50climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. And when he
1:14:52came back, he said that the the mantra
1:14:55of these amazing um cherpas that take
1:14:59you up and down that come with you, by
1:15:00the way, they're super human. Like
1:15:02literally running up and down this
1:15:03mountain, even with all of the the
1:15:05elevation as if it's nothing. It's like
1:15:08drinking water them. It's amazing. And
1:15:10and carrying a bunch of with him.
1:15:12It's amazing. Magic. Magic. But he came
1:15:15back and he said what really stuck with
1:15:16him and it's become a thing that we say
1:15:18to each other sometimes. And all of
1:15:21these amazing guides would keep telling
1:15:23everybody, "Hey, pol
1:15:26slowly, slowly, pol
1:15:31>> slowly, slowly. It's the only way up to
1:15:33the top. If all you focus on is the
1:15:36Everest, you will not get there if you
1:15:38don't focus on taking the step every
1:15:42day. A little closer, a little closer, a
1:15:45little closer." You speak to Olympic
1:15:47athletes, they do the exact same thing.
1:15:48That's what I was thinking of. I was
1:15:50thinking of seeing who was Sir David
1:15:51Bellford who's the guy quoted in the
1:15:53first chapter of Atomic Habits turning
1:15:55the British cycling team around.
1:15:56Marginal gains.
1:15:57>> Beautiful.
1:15:58>> He's a good friend of mine on and off
1:15:59camera. And he everyone knows about the
1:16:01marginal gains idea. Focus on the
1:16:02smallest things. He said to me on air,
1:16:04he said um he banned his team from
1:16:06thinking about the podium,
1:16:08>> which is very much what you're saying as
1:16:10well. And he really got them focused on
1:16:12like today's work. So this phrase
1:16:13emerged that I say to my team, I've said
1:16:14it three times this week, pedals over
1:16:16podiums. And what that means is like
1:16:18really focus on the pedals today because
1:16:20the he said that when he had Christopher
1:16:24Hoy, you know, again that he took the
1:16:26British cycling team from being down and
1:16:27out to the greatest of all time. When
1:16:28Christopher Hoy was thinking about
1:16:30>> the the the world record or the podium,
1:16:32whatever, his time would get worse. And
1:16:34when he got Christopher Hoy, if he got
1:16:36him to sort of drop into a meditative
1:16:38state and ban him thinking about that,
1:16:39not only would his time get better
1:16:41around the drrome, but Christopher Hoy
1:16:43would get off the bike and and say he
1:16:45couldn't remember the cycle.
1:16:47>> Yeah.
1:16:47>> Which I I think is this flow state. And
1:16:49>> it is
1:16:50>> other remarkable thing that he said to
1:16:52me um off camera was he went Stephen
1:16:55when we started focusing on the small
1:16:56things and broke goals down into really
1:16:58really small goals. People stopped
1:17:00leaving at 5:00 p.m. and started staying
1:17:02till 1:00 a.m. in the morning because we
1:17:04felt like we were going somewhere. And
1:17:07this this is what I referred to as from
1:17:09that conversation as the progress
1:17:10principle which is like the feeling of
1:17:12progress.
1:17:13>> Yes. And there's this incredible um
1:17:16Harvard Business Review study where they
1:17:17asked people what their favorite day in
1:17:18work was and it was when they had a
1:17:19small feeling of progress.
1:17:20>> So it really resonated with me when you
1:17:22said turn the like MITs into these lit
1:17:25cuz the reason I like the lit is cuz I
1:17:27get the progress principle.
1:17:28>> Yes.
1:17:28>> I get the like oh I'm making I feel like
1:17:30I am going somewhere.
1:17:32>> Yes.
1:17:32>> The MITs it's hard to get that feeling
1:17:36unless you do what you just said which
1:17:37is breaking them down.
1:17:38>> Yeah.
1:17:39>> Which brings us to step three
1:17:41beautifully. The best way to increase
1:17:44the signal or to get to X, whatever it
1:17:46may be, is to remove obstacles as
1:17:49opposed to adding.
1:17:51>> Remove the obstacles. Turn down
1:17:53noise. And you turn that into noise
1:17:56by cutting distractions.
1:17:59So you now you've got your Everest.
1:18:01Ple ple. You know the next step.
1:18:03>> Ple ple. I love that phrase.
1:18:05>> Slowly. Slowly the next step. And it's
1:18:06the same thing. It's the pedal, not the
1:18:08podium.
1:18:09>> Mhm.
1:18:09>> Cut out the distractions. Hygiene,
1:18:11hygiene, hygiene. So, phone out of
1:18:13sight, out of mind, notifications off.
1:18:14If you're in a noisy environment or if
1:18:16you benefit from listening to music,
1:18:18then you put on headphones.
1:18:19>> What is your opinion on listening to
1:18:21music to do work and putting headphones
1:18:22on? What does the science say?
1:18:24>> People are different, of course. So,
1:18:26some people seem to be distracted by it
1:18:28and they prefer silence. And if you
1:18:29don't if you cannot be in a silent
1:18:31environment, you may benefit from noise
1:18:32cancelling, right? I don't recommend
1:18:34listening to noise cancelling or having
1:18:36noise cancelling headphones on for more
1:18:37than 3 four hours a day because it you
1:18:39start to become overstimulated by the
1:18:42real sounds of the world around you
1:18:44because it changes your baseline of what
1:18:46the world ought to sound like and your
1:18:49brain starts to adjust and it starts to
1:18:51think wow this is the world you can hear
1:18:54a pin drop no darling the the world is
1:18:57much noisier than that so then the
1:18:59moment you don't have the noise
1:19:00cancelling on you become you're like oh
1:19:01my and you start you start getting
1:19:02anxious and you start becoming
1:19:04overstimulated and also your auditory
1:19:05system starts to actually adapt to the
1:19:07noise cancelling. So noise cancelling I
1:19:09would say use it for focus sprints only.
1:19:11So if you told me you got 3 hours a day
1:19:12that hits your 3 hours. So you can use
1:19:14the noise cancelling only for when maybe
1:19:16you want to do focus sprints if you
1:19:17benefit from the silence. If you're
1:19:19going to listen to music, ideally music
1:19:22with no lyrics at all or lyrics in a
1:19:24language that you don't understand. You
1:19:26can also benefit from having one
1:19:29particular playlist that you invest in
1:19:31that your brain will over time if you
1:19:34invest in it slowly associate with
1:19:37focus.
1:19:38>> So you can have like a focus mode
1:19:39playlist. You can have an email sprint
1:19:42you know playlist and then very very
1:19:46different from what you might listen to
1:19:47to wind down after work or to sleep. You
1:19:49should have different playlist for
1:19:50different brain states. Okay. So you've
1:19:52set yourself up in that way for success.
1:19:57Then set a timer. Set a timer. Human
1:20:02beings and fun fact, most mammals uh are
1:20:06highly influenced by what are called
1:20:08markers of progress. Which means if we
1:20:10see time ticking by, we will just work
1:20:13faster.
1:20:14>> Do you mean is it time ticking down or
1:20:16time ticking up? So is it going from 60
1:20:19minutes down or is it going from 0 to
1:20:2160?
1:20:21>> We're keenly interested in any sense of
1:20:23progress. So progress bars.
1:20:25>> Okay.
1:20:25>> Yeah. Um having said that where I find
1:20:29from a productivity standpoint you will
1:20:30get a lot of interesting benefit is like
1:20:33just to hustle and to stay focused is
1:20:36seeing the time ticking down. Okay.
1:20:38>> Using a very childlike example of
1:20:40cleanup songs. Little kids are highly
1:20:42distractable creatures. Now, if you ask
1:20:45them to, they've like thrown about all
1:20:47of their toys, let's say, in a
1:20:48classroom, and you ask them to put their
1:20:50toys away, like put all the toys in the
1:20:51in the bins and da da da and clean up,
1:20:54they're going to by the third thing they
1:20:55pick up, but guess of luck, right?
1:20:57They're they're off. They're looking at
1:20:58something else and they they're
1:20:59distracted and playing.
1:21:02Here comes the science of cleanup songs.
1:21:05You teach all these kids, and this is
1:21:06true, by the way, across the world. When
1:21:08when they're little, teachers will teach
1:21:10them to have a cleanup song in class.
1:21:12Now there is a clear beginning and a
1:21:15clear end to what they're trying to do
1:21:18and it keeps them focused. It keeps them
1:21:20on task and they know the song is going
1:21:22to end. And because the time is ticking
1:21:24by and the song is going to end, they
1:21:26all of a sudden start getting very goal
1:21:27oriented and focused and they start
1:21:29putting the toys away, especially near
1:21:30the end of the song.
1:21:31>> They're Parkinson's law.
1:21:33>> Parkinson's law states that work will
1:21:35expand to fit the time that you give it.
1:21:38So, if you give yourself an hour to get
1:21:40the damn deck done, it'll probably take
1:21:43an hour. If you give yourself five,
1:21:45it'll take five. Yeah. So, time
1:21:48yourself. You, by the way, time yourself
1:21:50with everything. You want to You need to
1:21:52clean your house. You have some errands
1:21:53to run. Time yourself. You will just
1:21:55work faster.
1:21:56>> This idea got stuck in my head about 5
1:21:57years ago, so I'd like to stick it in
1:21:58some other people's heads.
1:21:59>> Okay.
1:22:00>> I read this thing and it said, "The
1:22:01center point of your influence on this
1:22:03planet is the allocation of your time."
1:22:05And I really tried to like interrogate
1:22:07that. I was like, "Is that really it? is
1:22:08like the game of my life really first
1:22:11and foremost how I allocate my time of
1:22:13course then it's like what I you know
1:22:14how well I show up or the things I
1:22:16allocate it to but the essence here
1:22:19everything I described on my death
1:22:21deathbed having great relationships with
1:22:23my fiance having great relationships
1:22:25with my family achievement um the fact
1:22:28the age that I get to the deathbed my
1:22:30health all of it really is you know
1:22:34downstream from the allocation of my
1:22:35time what do I put my time on going to
1:22:38the gym um or do I put it on something
1:22:41else? And I just think that's a really
1:22:42important point cuz when we talk about
1:22:43saving time and treating time in such a
1:22:46precious way, one of the rebuttals is,
1:22:48"Oh, this is stressful. This is a this
1:22:50is a lot. It feels like a lot of
1:22:52pressure to like set a timer.
1:22:54>> But, you know, time really is the
1:22:58currency for me. I just think I think it
1:23:00is for all of us. And
1:23:04I think as well
1:23:07what I hear from your work is it's not
1:23:09about there being a good and and bad way
1:23:12to live one's life. It's just about
1:23:13being intentional
1:23:15>> with the time.
1:23:16>> Yeah.
1:23:17>> Think about how unintentional the
1:23:19average day is these days cuz you're
1:23:20just pulled around like a plastic bag in
1:23:22the wind by lits.
1:23:26Anyway, sorry. think you were very
1:23:28close, dangerously close to quitting
1:23:30Katy Perry there first. Oh,
1:23:31>> really? [laughter]
1:23:33>> I think so, isn't it? It's like I'm a
1:23:34plastic bag floating in the wind.
1:23:36>> That's how it can feel in the modern
1:23:37world.
1:23:38>> It is true. No, it's true, though.
1:23:40>> And all of this, by the way, is in
1:23:42pursuit of just
1:23:45giving people more of their own time
1:23:48back. By the way, the way in which we're
1:23:51working with all of these distractions
1:23:53around us, one, according to the
1:23:55progress principle, makes people feel
1:23:57like Like, right, they're not
1:23:58happy. They're not happy. People want to
1:24:00get good, high quality work done. People
1:24:02want to make an impact. They want those
1:24:04things because you're hiring amazing
1:24:06people. And from when we were all
1:24:07little, we were told, "Good job. You got
1:24:09an like we love that progress. We want
1:24:12to get the gold star." So, if we've
1:24:14trained an entire generation of human
1:24:15beings to want to get the gold star and
1:24:17now you're surrounded by all these
1:24:18people and you're like, "Hey, by the
1:24:19way, I know you have this massive to-do
1:24:21list, but you're not going to get
1:24:22anything done. Instead, you just have to
1:24:24like answer all these messages and go to
1:24:25all these meetings and calls and then
1:24:26feel like at the end of the day cuz
1:24:28your to-do list is still there and you
1:24:29didn't make progress on anything."
1:24:31Doesn't feel good. So, people don't feel
1:24:33good about it. And then all that work is
1:24:35still left and then they end up working
1:24:36evenings and weekends to catch up. And
1:24:38that takes time away from your family.
1:24:40And then your deathbed self is like this
1:24:42is terrible. So we're the timer will
1:24:45help you condense the damn work so you
1:24:47gamify it. You make use of the dopamine.
1:24:49You make use of all those amazing
1:24:50hormones that get you all excited to get
1:24:52the work done so that you can actually
1:24:55>> take a break and do other things.
1:24:57>> Oh, okay. So on this take a break. Yeah.
1:25:00At the very start you were talking about
1:25:01innovation and creativity and I Rick
1:25:03Rubin was sat here a couple of weeks ago
1:25:05and I've done a lot of research around
1:25:06Steve Jobs to figure out how he was able
1:25:08to like see the future
1:25:09>> because I look back at his decision-m
1:25:12and it was always so unexpected and at
1:25:15the time like really contrarian. There's
1:25:18a great video of him stood at a
1:25:20developer conference and the developer
1:25:21stands up and basically berates him and
1:25:23says like why are you doing this again?
1:25:24You're like removing this particular
1:25:26software that every developer needs.
1:25:29This was Steve Jobs like removed I think
1:25:31it was flash was it flash from our
1:25:33devices so that we could stream video
1:25:34better removed the the stylus from
1:25:36phones the keyboard and he could and he
1:25:39was right in hindsight but my question
1:25:40is like how did he see the future so
1:25:42clearly Rick Rubin and him seemed to
1:25:46share a practice which is boredom
1:25:51so you know as productivity people were
1:25:53always like work work but then I I study
1:25:55these great these visionaries and I go
1:25:57oh they had like a boredom practice
1:25:59where they just like stood away from the
1:26:02picture. Um, and so when you said brain
1:26:04break, I was thinking, uh, hm, maybe is
1:26:06this what you're talking about or is it
1:26:07something else?
1:26:09>> This is tactical.
1:26:10>> Okay,
1:26:11>> brain break is just defined as a short
1:26:13period of time where you're not
1:26:15processing information. And this brings
1:26:18me to really attacking how most humans
1:26:21seem to be taking breaks these days.
1:26:23People will take a break from work and
1:26:26they'll be like, I was just like doing
1:26:27all these things and I'm going to take a
1:26:28break.
1:26:30And what is the most common way to take
1:26:32a break?
1:26:32>> Take a talk or something, some other
1:26:35distraction,
1:26:35>> some other thing. By the way, there was
1:26:37a 2024 Nature paper that just came out
1:26:40that actually measured everybody's
1:26:42fatigue levels, okay, before they
1:26:44started working. Then they would have
1:26:46them work. So essentially, let's imagine
1:26:47like do a focus sprint. So you're
1:26:49focused and doing all this work and then
1:26:50they measure their fatigue levels after
1:26:52they're working. And then they're like,
1:26:52"Okay, now we're going to pause now that
1:26:54you've worked and you're going to take a
1:26:56break." They put them into four
1:26:57different groups. One of those groups
1:26:58was no break at all. So you just keep
1:27:01going.
1:27:01>> And then you measured fatigue levels
1:27:03again. And lo and behold, of course, no
1:27:04break is not great, right? You're not
1:27:07going to really rebound from being
1:27:09fatigued. But the other options were Tik
1:27:11Tok style scrolling,
1:27:14looking at nature, or just staring ahead
1:27:16of yourself. It turns out the best kind
1:27:19of break is in fact, no surprise there,
1:27:22being exposed to nature. Humans come
1:27:24from nature, have a sense we might have
1:27:26a affinity for it.
1:27:28>> Even if it feels like sometimes we
1:27:29don't, we're city folk. There is a
1:27:31visceral calm that comes when humans
1:27:34spend time in nature. So that's the best
1:27:36kind of break. But shortly thereafter,
1:27:38it's just doing nothing at all. And the
1:27:41worst break was tick tock style
1:27:44scrolling. You were just consuming more
1:27:46information. That's not a brain break.
1:27:49Your brain is not in fact taking a break
1:27:51at all. Do you weightlift?
1:27:53>> Sometimes. Yeah,
1:27:54>> sometimes. Okay. So, if you're lifting a
1:27:56weight here, I'm going to pick up this
1:27:58this like block for a second. Let's say
1:28:00this is heavy and I'm like picking up
1:28:02this weight. Okay.
1:28:03>> And I'm doing this and my muscles are
1:28:05working very hard. And then what do we
1:28:07do after we've we've done like a set of
1:28:09weightlifting?
1:28:09>> Rest.
1:28:10>> You rest. What would you say if in
1:28:12between instead of actually resting, I
1:28:13start lifting like low-grade weights?
1:28:15I'm still This is not a rest. So that's
1:28:17what scrolling is. And it's not even
1:28:19just scrolling, by the way. It's do and
1:28:21I don't want people thinking like, "Oh,
1:28:22I was reading the news." You're reading.
1:28:24That's not resting this muscle. You're
1:28:26still using this thing. Reading,
1:28:28writing, arithmetic. Like the point is
1:28:31to rest this thing.
1:28:32>> How?
1:28:34>> Do nothing at all.
1:28:35>> I almost don't know how to do nothing.
1:28:36I'm like, "What does that look like?
1:28:38Everything I thought of was a thing."
1:28:39>> Yeah.
1:28:40>> It's hard in the beginning. But I will
1:28:41say this. I have an idea for you.
1:28:43>> Okay. And that is to do something
1:28:47um that is cognitively challenging
1:28:49enough such that you can't think of all
1:28:52of your other worries and things. This
1:28:54is my barometer for a good like a really
1:28:56high quality break.
1:28:57>> My DJing. What about my I DJ? I'm
1:28:59learning to DJ.
1:29:00>> Are you really?
1:29:01>> That's why the all the decks are out
1:29:02there. There's like four decks out
1:29:03there.
1:29:03>> I didn't notice.
1:29:04>> I've been learning for four years. So
1:29:05it's you know my break.
1:29:07>> Awesome skill. Awesome skill. And it's
1:29:09you're learning so it's immersive. I'm
1:29:11totally focused because the song's about
1:29:12to end and I have to mix it and it's the
1:29:14most locked in I am all day other than
1:29:16this.
1:29:17>> Yeah.
1:29:17>> So, even for like a simple brain break
1:29:20though, my humble recommendation to get
1:29:22yourself to not like scroll, check the
1:29:24news, get on LinkedIn, like whatever
1:29:26else it may be,
1:29:27>> do something with your hands. So, I'm a
1:29:29big I'm a firm believer in systems. We
1:29:32just need systems. I don't like
1:29:33willpower like, oh, I should really do
1:29:35that. I ought to do that. Like it's
1:29:36really difficult if you create systems
1:29:39for and what I mean by that is don't
1:29:41have grabandgo snacks anymore. Force
1:29:43yourself to make things like
1:29:46Yeah. Exactly. And it doesn't have to be
1:29:48cooking like again you're in the middle
1:29:49of the workday. My point is instead of
1:29:50like one of those tiny little cheeses
1:29:52that come prepackaged like get the big
1:29:55hunk and take it out of the ziplo and
1:29:57like cut it and like oh I've cut myself
1:29:59a piece of cheese. Instead of having the
1:30:00pods and you know like for example like
1:30:03boil some water, put the kettle on like
1:30:05then do the thing like romantic like use
1:30:09bo do put yourself in a system where you
1:30:11are you're forced to use both of your
1:30:14hands in order to get yourself hydrated,
1:30:17caffeinated or get yourself a snack so
1:30:19that you can't scroll and do the thing
1:30:22at the same time. So that's it. Like an
1:30:23easy way to take a brain break is just
1:30:25rehydrate, have another snack. Ideally,
1:30:28honestly, go expose yourself to some
1:30:29natural light, get some fresh air, move,
1:30:31go on a little walk. But I know those
1:30:33are easier said than done often. So, at
1:30:35the very least, I re I assume people are
1:30:37maybe even at least 50% as hungry as I
1:30:40am. So, I love lots of snacks. Is there
1:30:43is there anything else on this point of
1:30:44you know when you're thinking about how
1:30:45to have your great innovative most
1:30:48creative ideas
1:30:49>> if I wanted to solve a very com complex
1:30:52problem come up with my best ideas
1:30:55>> is there anything else you'd recommend
1:30:57>> the science behind innovation and
1:31:00creative insight
1:31:03>> is the process of truly understanding
1:31:06and thinking about the problem.
1:31:08[clears throat] So loading up all of the
1:31:10data related to the problem that you're
1:31:11trying to solve, it should be top of
1:31:14mind, meaning those neural networks that
1:31:17are related to yeah, the neural networks
1:31:21related to thinking about the problem.
1:31:24Okay? Whatever problem it is that you're
1:31:26trying to solve, you want those
1:31:28activated and top of mind. Now, this is
1:31:31uh one of my favorite quotes attributed,
1:31:33I think, to Albert Einstein. Who knows
1:31:35if he actually said it, though. Um so
1:31:36many quotes are attributed to him.
1:31:38Nobody was who who's factchecking the
1:31:40right? But uh no problem can be
1:31:43solved by the same level of
1:31:45consciousness or the same mindset that
1:31:47created it. So when you're sitting there
1:31:49and you're thinking about a problem, I
1:31:51kind of think about this like it's like
1:31:52a traffic gridlock like this, right?
1:31:56You're sitting there and you're going
1:31:57well okay this this and this. And it's
1:31:58like and you don't know and by that I
1:32:00mean by gridlock I mean you don't know
1:32:01the solution immediately. In fact you're
1:32:03thinking about the problem. There lies
1:32:07the brain state of the problem defined
1:32:10as this defined as X brain state is the
1:32:13brain state where you Steven are
1:32:14thinking about the problem. Are you is
1:32:17this the solution state?
1:32:19No. By definition this is the problem
1:32:21state. So there you are in a gridlock of
1:32:23certain neural networks where you're
1:32:24thinking about the problem. Ah the next
1:32:26step walk away.
1:32:29Walk away and go do something else. Walk
1:32:31the damn dog.
1:32:32>> Go do something else. wash the dishes.
1:32:35You're introducing another stimulus
1:32:36here, right? Shower, new stimulus, new
1:32:40environment. These neural networks begin
1:32:42to loosen. New neural networks are
1:32:44becoming activated. New electrical,
1:32:46they're all electrical neural networks
1:32:48are getting activated. And all of a
1:32:49sudden, that might allow one idea to all
1:32:52of it. Ideas are like two neural
1:32:54networks that are crossing paths. And
1:32:55you go
1:32:57>> insight, the light bulb that we're all
1:32:58searching for. And then you get that
1:33:01magic and you go, "Wait a minute. That's
1:33:03there. It was right in front of me the
1:33:05whole time, right under my nose." So you
1:33:07have those amazing insights typically
1:33:08when you loosen and you walk away.
1:33:10>> Does this apply to negative thinking?
1:33:12>> Yeah.
1:33:13>> And rumination.
1:33:15>> Negative thinking and rumination. I have
1:33:17loads and loads of u opinions about
1:33:20>> Why did you roll your eyes then?
1:33:22>> I rolled my eyes because
1:33:23>> people don't like them.
1:33:24>> No, it's not that. It's um I find that
1:33:29in the modern world, we've gotten
1:33:33ourselves into a bit of a pickle where
1:33:35we've made it okay to continue to rehash
1:33:38and exhaustively talk about and think
1:33:40about our traumas.
1:33:42Well, when you do that, you're just
1:33:43deepening the damn neural networks.
1:33:45>> Really?
1:33:46>> Yeah. I mean, think about it. You're
1:33:48like, if I'm sad about something, I'm
1:33:51not saying don't acknowledge your
1:33:52feelings, but after feel your feelings,
1:33:56but if the goal is, let's say, for
1:33:57example, you've gotten into yourself
1:33:58into a rut of rumination about something
1:34:01>> or worry.
1:34:03Rumination is sort of the same thought
1:34:06over and over and over again. The only
1:34:08way out is to break the cycle.
1:34:11You do not make your
1:34:15feelings and you know the thoughts that
1:34:18you end up ruminating on go away by
1:34:20talking about them over and over and
1:34:22over again in the exact same way. If you
1:34:25keep doing that, you're just deepening
1:34:27and deepening that neural network. So
1:34:29it's even more robust and strong. If you
1:34:32repeatedly I mean you were mentioned
1:34:33atomic habits. I mean think about how
1:34:35habits are formed, right? It's that
1:34:38repetition. So if you keep telling
1:34:39yourself, oh this trauma happened for
1:34:42me, this occurred and I was a victim and
1:34:44then I was a victim and then I was this
1:34:45trauma, this trauma and then that's why
1:34:47I am this way that I am. I am this way
1:34:49that I am. I am this way that
1:34:51>> some point it might become your identity
1:34:53>> pretty quickly, huh? So the only way out
1:34:56is to stop that. You have to redirect
1:34:59your attention. So my solve for things
1:35:01like rumination is acknowledge why it's
1:35:04happening in the first place and then
1:35:06quite quickly after that redirect your
1:35:08attention when it's happening. It's sort
1:35:10of a anytime you you you're in that oh
1:35:13it's starting again redirect and then
1:35:15put your attention somewhere else.
1:35:17What's your Everest? What's a different
1:35:19version of the story? What's the
1:35:20narrative that you want to feed? Cuz
1:35:23again this electrical system is it's
1:35:26think of yourself as the gardener or the
1:35:28architect of this thing. You're
1:35:29designing it. It's a muscle like
1:35:31anything else. It's like someone sitting
1:35:32around and going, "Well, I don't love
1:35:34the fact that my right bicep is slightly
1:35:36larger than do something about it." You
1:35:38know, you can atrophy this one a little
1:35:40bit and and and increase the weight that
1:35:42you that you that you hold the load on
1:35:44this one and lo and behold, you'll get a
1:35:46different outcome. So if you think of
1:35:50the mind and the and truly the brain
1:35:52from a neural perspective as different
1:35:55neural networks that you're either
1:35:56deepening, strengthening, and feeding,
1:35:58feeding with your thoughts, your time,
1:36:01your attention,
1:36:03be careful which ones you feed because
1:36:06whichever one you feed will in fact
1:36:08become stronger and louder.
1:36:12>> This is something that I've made for
1:36:14you. I realize that the divers here
1:36:16audience are strivvers. Whether it's in
1:36:17business or health, we all have big
1:36:19goals that we want to accomplish. And
1:36:21one of the things I've learned is that
1:36:23when you aim at the big big big goal, it
1:36:26can feel incredibly psychologically
1:36:28uncomfortable because it's kind of like
1:36:30being stood at the foot of Mount Everest
1:36:32and looking upwards. The way to
1:36:33accomplish your goals is by breaking
1:36:35them down into tiny small steps. And we
1:36:38call this in our team the 1%. And
1:36:40actually this philosophy is highly
1:36:42responsible for much of our success
1:36:44here. So, what we've done so that you at
1:36:46home can accomplish any big goal that
1:36:48you have is we've made these 1% diaries
1:36:51and we released these last year and they
1:36:53all sold out. So, I asked my team over
1:36:55and over again to bring the diaries
1:36:57back, but also to introduce some new
1:36:58colors and to make some minor tweaks to
1:37:00the diary. So, now we have a better
1:37:03range for you. So, if you have a big
1:37:06goal in mind and you need a framework
1:37:08and a process and some motivation, then
1:37:10I highly recommend you get one of these
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1:37:31show more than you know. And according
1:37:32to the algorithm, you're someone that
1:37:34watches our show, but you haven't yet
1:37:36hit that button. Thank you so much.
1:37:38>> I can see in your productivity toolkit,
1:37:41>> yeah,
1:37:41>> there is a clock.
1:37:43>> Why is there a clock?
1:37:45>> Uh, the clock represents
1:37:49the power and the science of when,
1:37:52[sighs and gasps]
1:37:54let me explain. If we said that the
1:37:57[clears throat] MITs and the lits that
1:37:59we talked about before, that represents
1:38:00the what I have my Everest. I have my
1:38:05MITs. Now, what am I doing today to move
1:38:07incrementally closer to meeting my
1:38:09Everest goal? That's the what. What am I
1:38:12doing today with the 3 hours of
1:38:14uninterrupted focus time that you said
1:38:16that you had,
1:38:17>> right? What focus sprints are the how.
1:38:20How am I going to then go attack that
1:38:22one MIT or that litter of lit? How am I
1:38:26going to go do it? You're going to do it
1:38:27in the methodology of a focus sprint if
1:38:29you want to 2x your time and minimize
1:38:30the number of mistakes made. That's the
1:38:32how. The science of chronotypes will
1:38:36tell you the science of when when should
1:38:40you go about doing all of these
1:38:41different things. Human beings do not
1:38:44share one circadian rhythm.
1:38:46>> What does that mean?
1:38:48>> Well, have you heard of a circadian
1:38:49rhythm before? They have
1:38:50>> okay so we all we have circadian rhythms
1:38:52animals do as well but we don't share
1:38:56one as a human species
1:38:59meaning we don't all go to sleep around
1:39:02the same time we're not all
1:39:04creature we are creatures of light but
1:39:06we don't all share one rhythm of exactly
1:39:08the ideal time that we would go to sleep
1:39:09and wake up [snorts]
1:39:11>> these different circadian rhythms are in
1:39:13fact called chronotypes so your
1:39:16chronoype is your genetic biological
1:39:18ideal
1:39:20time. It's essentially a profile of the
1:39:22hormones uh and your energy levels
1:39:25throughout the course of the day. And
1:39:26there are three
1:39:28chronotypes.
1:39:30There's AM shifted individuals. These
1:39:32are essentially this is like the science
1:39:34behind morning birds.
1:39:35>> Okay. So people that like doing stuff
1:39:37early.
1:39:37>> Yeah.
1:39:38>> Okay.
1:39:38>> And it's again it's it's genetic and
1:39:40it's hormonal. These individuals
1:39:43naturally their cortisol levels spike
1:39:45really really early in the morning. And
1:39:46some people are like the 4:00 in the
1:39:48morning people. They're the 5:00 in the
1:39:49morning people, 6:00 in the morning
1:39:51people. They are naturally A.M. shifted.
1:39:53Like, it's not their fault necessarily.
1:39:55It's And by the way, how do you know
1:39:56that you're truly AM shifted? How you
1:39:59know you're truly AM shifted is if you
1:40:01go to bed at even if I keep you up at
1:40:032:00 in the morning until 2:00 in the
1:40:05morning. And let's say I'm controlling
1:40:08you no longer have young children that
1:40:10are going to wake you up. You no longer
1:40:11have any meetings, nothing at all. I've
1:40:14put you in this um the best hotel in the
1:40:16world with the most comfortable bed,
1:40:17fully blackout. Not you can't you can
1:40:19hear a pin drop. There's nothing that
1:40:21would otherwise wake you and you can
1:40:23sleep as long as you want. And I kept
1:40:25you up until 2:00 in the morning.
1:40:28Oh, don't you worry. That pituitary
1:40:30gland is very strong. Your body knows
1:40:32when it's 5:00 in the morning. It
1:40:34doesn't even need to see light. It
1:40:35naturally will wake you up. So now
1:40:36you're sleepd deprived, but you have no
1:40:37choice. So those people that naturally
1:40:39wake up at early hours of the day
1:40:40regardless of when they went to bed the
1:40:41night before. Those are AM shifted
1:40:43individuals and it's all about their
1:40:45cortisol levels first thing in the
1:40:46morning.
1:40:47That is about, by the way, 25% of the
1:40:50human population.
1:40:52It's not the majority. My humble opinion
1:40:54is the world seems to be oriented around
1:40:56these people,
1:40:58>> right? Early bird gets the worm.
1:41:00>> Yeah. I mean, everything starts school
1:41:02started at 9:00 a.m., so you had to be
1:41:03up at 7:00.
1:41:04>> That's why I part of the reason, many
1:41:06reasons, but that's part of the reason I
1:41:07hated school so much.
1:41:09>> Oh, totally.
1:41:09>> I liked staying up really late. same.
1:41:12>> Yeah.
1:41:12>> Then you are likely the minority of the
1:41:15human population like me. PM shifted. PM
1:41:18shifted people. Anthropologically, by
1:41:20the way, the only reason we imagine why
1:41:23people like you and me exist because
1:41:25otherwise, by the way, it's somewhat
1:41:26dysfunctional. No.
1:41:28>> Otherwise, yeah, it would be strange to
1:41:31have different sleep schedules and stuff
1:41:33like that. But
1:41:34>> like we're not I'm like I'm not a I
1:41:36can't like see in the dark. Like it's
1:41:38somewhat dysfunctional that we're awake
1:41:39all night. But think about it this way.
1:41:41If you and I were in the same tribe
1:41:43along with my team and your team and
1:41:45we're all like, "Okay, we're we're a
1:41:46village now together and everybody went
1:41:48to bed at 10:00 p.m. and woke up at 6:00
1:41:50a.m., what would happen in the middle of
1:41:52the night when a competing tribe comes
1:41:54to slaughter all of us?"
1:41:55>> Yeah. The night is like the most
1:41:57dangerous time, isn't it, for for
1:41:58anybody? So, you need some people that
1:42:00are awake and then even in the morning,
1:42:02you need some people that are
1:42:03>> Mhm. So you do need to stagger in a
1:42:05tribe, stagger the time in which people
1:42:08are highly functional, which makes
1:42:09evolutionary sense.
1:42:10>> You need a 24/7 team.
1:42:12>> You [clears throat] need to make sure
1:42:13someone's always awake. So you and I
1:42:16belong to a tiny subset of the human
1:42:18population. According to research from
1:42:21uh uh my lab, it's we're at about 16%
1:42:24from what we've gathered around the
1:42:26world. So 16% of the human population is
1:42:29P.M. shifted, meaning genetically we
1:42:32tend to be able to stay up quite late
1:42:35and we can sleep in and our energy
1:42:37levels rise as opposed to shoot up early
1:42:40in the morning and then linearly
1:42:42decrease as the day progresses. AM
1:42:43shifted people usually are the best.
1:42:45They do their best focus, their best
1:42:46thinking straight away early in the day
1:42:49and they just seem to lose steam as the
1:42:51day progresses. Like there's no like
1:42:53second wind for them really. I mean,
1:42:57but like when you take a standardized
1:42:59test in my lab, the becoming superhum
1:43:03like let's test your intelligence, your
1:43:05attention span, memory, all of it. When
1:43:08would you schedule that test?
1:43:09>> For AM shifted people, they're like,
1:43:11"Are you free at 7, right?" Cuz they
1:43:13they're the best in the morning. For PM
1:43:15shifted people like you and I, honestly,
1:43:18the afternoon.
1:43:18>> Yeah.
1:43:19>> Uh in my younger years, oh my gosh, the
1:43:21evening. I do my best work like 900 p.m.
1:43:24on.
1:43:25>> It's the my clearest thinking, the most
1:43:27energized, the most clear-headed, you
1:43:28know, up until the the wee hours in the
1:43:30morning. But it's not super functional,
1:43:31but it's it's genetic and and you can
1:43:33make use of it. Um, PM shifted people
1:43:37are also have a tendency to be the most
1:43:39artistic and creative.
1:43:40>> Yeah, there you go.
1:43:42>> Say that again. Look at the camera and
1:43:43say that again.
1:43:45>> Most artistic and creative. I did not
1:43:47seem to get those. Whatever. Um then you
1:43:49have the vast majority of the human
1:43:51population and those are people who are
1:43:53bifphasic.
1:43:55Bifphasic stands for the Latin two
1:43:57phases or two peaks. And these
1:43:59individuals wake up a little groggy but
1:44:03within about 45 minutes to an hour
1:44:05they're ramped off to the races. They're
1:44:08feeling great. Bifphasic two phases or
1:44:10two peaks. So they peak once in the
1:44:12morning. They come down for the biggest
1:44:13afternoon dip comparatively to all those
1:44:15three types. and then they um will then
1:44:17come back up for a second wind if they
1:44:19play their cards right.
1:44:21So those are the three corona types. My
1:44:23humble opinion is you should know which
1:44:25one you are because it will dictate the
1:44:28ideal time you should be doing your
1:44:31focus sprints when when is the ideal
1:44:34time. I am a big bag of blood, guts, and
1:44:36chemicals. I'm not a machine,
1:44:39right? I there are biological laws like
1:44:42I'm not the same at 8:00 a.m. versus 2
1:44:44p.m. versus 8:00 p.m. I am a different
1:44:46version of self with different abilities
1:44:49and skills and my attention span is not
1:44:51a constant.
1:44:53That's another a law that I would love
1:44:56people to know a bit more and accept. I
1:44:58should say to know and accept
1:45:02our cognitive abilities are different
1:45:05throughout the course of the day which
1:45:08means when we do certain things does
1:45:12matter at least in some small part and
1:45:14I'm not suggesting we can architect our
1:45:16days because you I mean you and I are
1:45:17actually prime examples of this as PM
1:45:19shifted people you know the world
1:45:20doesn't give a about us the world
1:45:24doesn't care like as in the world is
1:45:25more AM shifted we have to do a great
1:45:27deal of adjustment. It's not like I can
1:45:29schedule meetings with people like
1:45:30brazenly like, "Hey, what are you doing
1:45:32at 10 tonight?" Right?
1:45:33>> It's so I woke up this morning and did a
1:45:367 a.m. meeting because it was very
1:45:39important and obviously I'm in LA so you
1:45:41know I'm working to other people's
1:45:42schedules and I was I don't know
1:45:45how else to say it. It was I was like
1:45:47gosh that's a terrible version of me
1:45:48that I've just brought such an important
1:45:50meeting. So, I bent my schedule to do
1:45:52it, but actually because it was
1:45:54important, I should have pushed it as
1:45:55late as I possibly could have in
1:45:57hindsight
1:45:58>> cuz I really I look back on that my
1:45:59performance at that meeting. I go, that
1:46:01was terrible. You know, even with the
1:46:03podcast, one of the things we set set as
1:46:04a rule where I never ever do podcasts
1:46:06before 11:00 a.m. So, this is why this
1:46:09starts at 11:00 a.m. today. And
1:46:10>> yeah,
1:46:11>> cuz I I tried it and
1:46:12>> yeah,
1:46:12>> the brain wasn't on. It's important, I
1:46:15think. You know, people are looking for
1:46:16big steps forward in life, but some of
1:46:17these things that seem to be small and
1:46:19marginal can have such a profound
1:46:20compounding impact over the long term.
1:46:22>> What is the most important thing we
1:46:23haven't talked about that we should have
1:46:24talked about for the people that are at
1:46:26home and they're struggling with all the
1:46:28>> they've got the customer problems we've
1:46:30described. They they're brain fogged.
1:46:31They've got these priorities. They're
1:46:33distracted all the time and they feel
1:46:34the sense of guilt around that
1:46:36distraction. They know they could be
1:46:38doing more, but they the noisy external
1:46:41tempting world is constantly winning.
1:46:44Well, what else
1:46:47can we give them as a tool?
1:46:49>> It's about the way the world is going.
1:46:54[gasps]
1:46:55I'm at risk of sounding a bit doom and
1:46:58gloom for a second, but I do hope that
1:47:02there's a light at the end of this
1:47:03tunnel that I hope will give people more
1:47:05agency and will inspire them
1:47:11because of my job.
1:47:14And because of where I live, I have uh
1:47:20access to to sitting and being invited
1:47:22into meetings and rooms with a lot of
1:47:26amazing human beings that are creating
1:47:30the future.
1:47:31>> I mean, there is an email there, isn't
1:47:32there, that we didn't touch on, but
1:47:34maybe this is a good time to reference
1:47:35that.
1:47:36>> You don't like referencing it. Uh it's
1:47:39it's a bit depressing,
1:47:40>> but I think it's important because you
1:47:43live in San Francisco
1:47:45>> and you did make the case that
1:47:48those big companies are coming to people
1:47:50like you to figure out how to hijack
1:47:52attention.
1:47:52>> Yeah. My area of expertise is how the
1:47:56brain changes and evolves, how you train
1:47:58it.
1:47:59An area of this that I know quite well
1:48:03because it's extremely important in the
1:48:05pursuit of actual cognitive training is
1:48:08something that we call strategic
1:48:09automaticity.
1:48:11Strategic automaticity is just getting
1:48:14people to do stuff without meaning to do
1:48:16stuff. So when a habit right this is
1:48:19also um James Clear's atomic habits
1:48:21phenomenal book obviously on on habit
1:48:23formation um touches on these kinds of
1:48:25concepts. We want ideally
1:48:28you have a behavior or a habit happen
1:48:31without thinking, right? Automatic.
1:48:34Think about something that you do
1:48:35without a great deal of thought or
1:48:37deliberation is a beautiful word for
1:48:38this. No deliberation for me. It's like
1:48:40brushing my teeth at night.
1:48:41>> I could be passed out. I could literally
1:48:43fall asleep somewhere on the couch while
1:48:45I'm doing something and lo and behold,
1:48:47at some point I will stir awake and be
1:48:49like, "Oh no." And then still before I
1:48:51get to bed, I will brush my teeth.
1:48:53Children don't do this naturally.
1:48:55They're they're we're forced into
1:48:58brushing our teeth at an early age, but
1:49:00it becomes a habit over time and it
1:49:01becomes a habit that I do without
1:49:03deliberation. I don't deliberate whether
1:49:05I'm going to make my coffee typically in
1:49:07the morning. It just h it's just quite
1:49:08automatic. Right? So that is that habit
1:49:11has achieved strategic automaticity. We
1:49:13have removed the deliberation out of it
1:49:15and now it happens quite automatically.
1:49:17Okay, that's the goal for any habit.
1:49:19Again, I have studied addiction. I study
1:49:21habit formation and I'm a I do cognitive
1:49:23training research which means I'm trying
1:49:26to get people to do stuff automatically.
1:49:28That's my goal. I don't want to have to
1:49:30send them a text message and ping them
1:49:31every time I want them to do the thing.
1:49:32Right?
1:49:34People like me have been hired hand
1:49:36overfoot by tech companies around the
1:49:38world. And this is historical. This
1:49:40isn't even a now thing. This was 2010,
1:49:4411, 12, 13, 14. And I myself have been
1:49:47attempted to be recruited more times
1:49:49than I can count to bring everything
1:49:52that I know and I've studied and I've
1:49:54done research on into certain tech
1:49:56companies that I've been legally told
1:49:58I'm not allowed to name by name.
1:50:00>> Just like me this little thing here.
1:50:03>> Go ahead.
1:50:05>> An email you received just, you know, to
1:50:08paraphrase just says, "Hi Saha, we came
1:50:10across your work on strategic
1:50:12automaticity at UC Berkeley and we'd
1:50:13love to connect. We're looking to
1:50:15increase engagement and make our product
1:50:16more sticky. Would you be open to a
1:50:18quick call
1:50:20research collaboration opportunity?
1:50:23Lots of people I guess in your field get
1:50:26these invitations because if they can
1:50:28retain people on their platforms more
1:50:29it's billion dollar outcomes.
1:50:31>> Mhm.
1:50:33[sighs]
1:50:34What I will say is that I first of all I
1:50:37don't think anyone is inherently evil or
1:50:39bad. Like this is not it's just
1:50:41opportunities. These are work
1:50:42opportunities, right? And the promise,
1:50:44by the way, for scientists like myself
1:50:46is you can keep doing what you're doing.
1:50:48We love what you're doing. In fact, love
1:50:50it. We love what you're do. We just want
1:50:52you to do it in-house so that we can
1:50:54also implement a lot of these things.
1:50:56So, mind you, I am allowed to say this.
1:50:59I'm not allowed to name the companies,
1:51:01but I am allowed to say that that
1:51:03particular email came with an attachment
1:51:06of what the job was, the description,
1:51:09and of course, the compensation. The
1:51:11compensation for that particular role
1:51:13was four times my annual salary doing
1:51:17public research at that time.
1:51:20>> It's tempting
1:51:21>> gamechanging for somebody for their life
1:51:23for their life trajectory. Right?
1:51:25>> So these were tempting offers. These are
1:51:28tempting offers modern day.
1:51:32I would say that digital dependence
1:51:37is going to be the Everest for our
1:51:41species. And I really mean that.
1:51:45It has the potential.
1:51:50If leveraged properly
1:51:52to give us amazing advances in
1:51:55everything from medicine to economics,
1:51:58it's gamechanging. Technology is
1:52:00amazing, especially artificial
1:52:01intelligence. However, comes with a
1:52:04great number of downsides if used
1:52:06improperly.
1:52:08Our relationship with technology
1:52:13is fundamentally critical
1:52:17for, in my humble opinion, whether or
1:52:20not our species continues to thrive on
1:52:23this planet.
1:52:24>> What's your fear? My fear is actually in
1:52:27fact something that I have maybe
1:52:29somewhat disturbingly um heard about.
1:52:33This is real story from real meetings
1:52:35that I have sat in with leaders in
1:52:40the AI space.
1:52:41>> Mhm.
1:52:46What we are currently up against is what
1:52:50is likely to happen at this point unless
1:52:52we truly honestly unless we turn the
1:52:55wheels and try to do something
1:52:56differently. What we are creating is a
1:53:00future where there will be a thinking
1:53:02class.
1:53:04There will be a very small subset of the
1:53:06human population
1:53:08that is educated that has the attention
1:53:13span and the ability to focus such that
1:53:17they can think critically on their own.
1:53:19They can question things. They can come
1:53:21up with ideas. And this small subset of
1:53:24the human population
1:53:27in a creepy way, again, I've heard it
1:53:29called the thinking class.
1:53:32They will run the world and the rest of
1:53:35the world will not be expected to think.
1:53:40Instead, their job will be to just do as
1:53:44they're told.
1:53:48And it is far easier to control a
1:53:51populace when they are distracted and
1:53:53not thinking. They're not awake.
1:53:57And this is my fear. And this is in fact
1:54:00what has what is motivating me on a
1:54:03daily basis. This is my Everest at this
1:54:06point is to
1:54:09illuminate what is
1:54:12a healthy relationship, an intentional
1:54:14relationship between minds and machines
1:54:19such that we don't lose our meaning.
1:54:24And this is what I'm obsessed with on a
1:54:26daily basis at the moment is giving
1:54:28agency back to people and trying to wake
1:54:30them up and get them to realize that
1:54:34if we stay this distracted,
1:54:39we will live a life
1:54:42unintentionally that we don't like
1:54:46living. You will end up on your deathbed
1:54:49with more regrets than you can count.
1:54:53And at a social and global level, we are
1:54:57going to have
1:55:00a drastic change from this last century.
1:55:03This last century, by the way, has been
1:55:05absolutely amazing as it relates to
1:55:07education for people.
1:55:10We have been educating more human
1:55:12beings. Think of girls and how much
1:55:15progress we've made in the pursuit of
1:55:19equity and equality for women.
1:55:21How many women are now extremely highly
1:55:24educated and doing amazing things where
1:55:26we would not have had that luxury a few
1:55:28generations ago? One generation ago in
1:55:30fact
1:55:32we've made such amazing strides in fact
1:55:34to expand the thinking class. The
1:55:36thinking class used to be small and I'm
1:55:39telling you now that it is shrinking
1:55:42again
1:55:43>> because of algorithms and
1:55:45>> and AI
1:55:45>> and
1:55:47>> AI is taking a lot of the thinking away
1:55:49from us and and I I'm using my words
1:55:52quite carefully there. It's taking it
1:55:53away from us because we're also we're
1:55:55letting it.
1:55:56>> Earlier on, I said we're writing more
1:55:57than ever. And the reason I said that
1:55:59was because I'm actively trying to
1:56:02resist the temptation of allowing AI to
1:56:04think for me. And I had a conversation
1:56:05actually yesterday with one of my
1:56:06colleagues who reports to me. And the
1:56:08feedback was um
1:56:10>> I no longer can hear your thinking. I
1:56:12can't hear your voice, but actually I I
1:56:13I said to this person in real life, your
1:56:17reasoning is so much stronger than when
1:56:19you send me things that are written. And
1:56:21that is because that's not you. You're
1:56:23you're actually better than me AI
1:56:24because you have more context. You have
1:56:26more real world context. And and um I
1:56:28think it's a really interesting moment
1:56:30for people to resist the temptation to
1:56:32let Chatty or LLM think for them.
1:56:35>> But gosh, it's going to be so bloody
1:56:37tempting.
1:56:38>> It's tempting. Oh, Steven. It goes back.
1:56:41What's wrong?
1:56:42>> What's wrong and what's right at the
1:56:44same time? It's another paradox. It's
1:56:47another paradox. is those damn
1:56:49biological laws.
1:56:54The human brain is wired for shortcuts.
1:56:58>> Mhm.
1:56:58>> Meaning
1:57:00if there is a shortcut to food and
1:57:04calories,
1:57:05we're going to take it.
1:57:07>> Yeah.
1:57:07>> We're supposed to because food used to
1:57:08be scarce. We'd be idiotic not to
1:57:10remember survival. This whole system is
1:57:13there for survival. We are designed to
1:57:15take shortcuts.
1:57:17I will um give some props to Daniel
1:57:20Conaman.
1:57:22Danny Conorman uh Go Bears, UC Berkeley
1:57:25professor. May he rest in peace. Also
1:57:28the first psychologist, first and only,
1:57:30if I'm not mistaken, psychologist to win
1:57:32the Nobel Prize in economics.
1:57:35Now Dan Conaman is quite famous for not
1:57:39only writing the world famous book
1:57:41thinking fast and slow but as a
1:57:44researcher my humble opinion
1:57:46more famous in my world of illuminating
1:57:50cognitive biases and these are not
1:57:52necessar I don't want people to think
1:57:53like oh no they're bad it's not like a
1:57:55disease model here these are the
1:57:57shortcuts we're talking about the human
1:57:59brain is trying to figure out very very
1:58:01quickly can I trust you do I like you do
1:58:03I like what's happening what do I want
1:58:04to
1:58:05like what what am I attracted to? What
1:58:07am I what what am I motivated to
1:58:09actually go get? It's just trying to
1:58:11it's trying to decrease the amount of
1:58:13energy that it takes to make all of the
1:58:16decisions. Otherwise, this the world is
1:58:19far too stimulating and full of way too
1:58:20much data and information. It would
1:58:22overwhelm us. So, the brain is designed
1:58:24to make all of these parses all this
1:58:26information and it's and it's designed
1:58:27for shortcuts.
1:58:29Daniel Conorman is famous. I one of my
1:58:33favorite quotes of his thinking is to
1:58:36humans as swimming is to cats.
1:58:41They can do it but they would prefer not
1:58:44to.
1:58:45Okay. Cats can swim.
1:58:47>> Mhm. [clears throat]
1:58:48>> They don't like it.
1:58:51So thinking is the same way.
1:58:53>> It's against our survival instincts of
1:58:56energy conservation, relaxing,
1:58:58preserving. You know, especially in a
1:59:00world you talked about earlier about
1:59:01where their calories weren't abundant.
1:59:03Like even doing this conversation now
1:59:04requires a lot of thinking. It's burning
1:59:06a lot of calories and
1:59:07>> think we need Skittles.
1:59:08>> Exactly. The more calories I burn,
1:59:10they're like my days are numbered,
1:59:11right? Like from an evolutionary
1:59:12perspective. So that's an interesting
1:59:14thing that we don't actually want to
1:59:16think. H
1:59:17>> it's important not to have shame around
1:59:19it. This is also connected by the way to
1:59:21the scrolling and our relationship with
1:59:23our technology. There's no shame if you
1:59:25find yourself dependent on scrolling
1:59:28addicted somewhat and you're not happy
1:59:29with your relationship with technology.
1:59:31It's okay. Please don't feel shame or
1:59:33guilt around it. It's natural.
1:59:36Congratulations. You have literally
1:59:37hundreds of experts that have designed
1:59:39these tools to be as addictive as they
1:59:41are. Lo and behold, you have a brain
1:59:43that we understand and your brain became
1:59:46addicted. So, there's no shame in it.
1:59:47It's just what do we do next? And my
1:59:49humble opinion is first assess get like
1:59:52a a blood test essentially like get get
1:59:54data on how bad the situation is, where
1:59:57are the bleeds and where is it worse and
1:59:59where is it okay and then go implement
2:00:01some of the tactics that we talked
2:00:02about.
2:00:03>> One of the the things I am terrible at
2:00:05is I think I mentioned this earlier is I
2:00:07I think multitasking is I've always
2:00:10believed it is a thing. it is a more
2:00:11productive solution and I consider
2:00:13myself to be a very proud context
2:00:14switcher. But then I heard about this
2:00:17exercise that you do to prove to people
2:00:18that multit multitasking is a myth. I
2:00:21have my iPad here and it's recording the
2:00:23screen.
2:00:23>> Okay.
2:00:24>> So I can show the audience my iPad. What
2:00:26is this thought experiment or task that
2:00:29highlights the myth?
2:00:31>> It's so simple too by the way. So what
2:00:34you're going to do for me, Stephen, and
2:00:35draw two lines on that piece of paper.
2:00:37>> And what is this going to prove from a
2:00:39high level? What we are going to attempt
2:00:42to do is do using the most
2:00:47I would say ridiculously oversimplified
2:00:50quote unquote task. This is insanely
2:00:52easy for you. But what we're attempting
2:00:54to do is get a sense of what we call
2:00:56your switch cost.
2:00:58>> Okay?
2:00:58>> Your switch cost is the amount of time
2:01:01and energy that you essentially waste
2:01:03every single time you switch your
2:01:04attention from A to B to C. So on and so
2:01:06forth. Biological law. Another one.
2:01:08There's no free lunch. Every single time
2:01:10you do something with your biological
2:01:12being, you pay for it.
2:01:15>> We shall see.
2:01:16>> Okay, let's do this.
2:01:17>> We shall see. Okay, whenever you're
2:01:19ready, you're going to go ahead and draw
2:01:20two lines for me. And I'm going to time
2:01:22you. So, don't start yet. But what
2:01:23you're going to write on the top line is
2:01:25you're going to write, "I'm a great
2:01:26multitasker." And on the bottom line,
2:01:27cuz you are, right? Wink wink, not
2:01:29judge.
2:01:30>> I'm a great multitasker.
2:01:31>> Okay?
2:01:31>> And then at the bottom line, you're
2:01:32going to write the numbers 1 through 20.
2:01:34And you will do this as fast as you
2:01:36possibly can. and I will time you, okay?
2:01:38And I will read out the times out loud.
2:01:41All right. Are you ready?
2:01:42>> Yeah.
2:01:42>> Get ready. Yeah.
2:01:43>> Get set.
2:01:44>> Go.
2:01:57From 0 to 20. Uhhuh.
2:02:11Exploitives are natural. [clears throat]
2:02:13>> Okay.
2:02:14>> There you go. Done.
2:02:15>> Done.
2:02:16>> 31 seconds.
2:02:17>> Okay.
2:02:17>> Beautiful.
2:02:18>> I want you to do this one more time.
2:02:20>> Okay.
2:02:21>> This time the way in which you will
2:02:23arrive will be a little different.
2:02:26>> Okay. [clears throat]
2:02:26>> You're going to alternate. So, you're
2:02:28going to start at the top line and
2:02:29you're going to write the letter I.
2:02:30You're going to drop down to the bottom.
2:02:31Don't start yet. I'm going to time you.
2:02:32Yeah. Move down to the bottom line.
2:02:33Number one, back up to the top line.
2:02:34Letter A down to the bottom line. Number
2:02:36two, back up to the top line. Let M down
2:02:37the bottom line. Number three, so on and
2:02:38so forth until you finish both lines.
2:02:40>> Okay,
2:02:40>> I'm going to give [clears throat] you
2:02:41one other option because if you're
2:02:42thinking, Sahar, this hand is a NASCAR.
2:02:45Like, I'm going to lose time going back
2:02:47and forth between these two lines. Fine.
2:02:48You can do it all on one line, but you
2:02:50still have to alternate. So, it still
2:02:52needs to be I1, you know, 2 A, so on and
2:02:55so forth. So, it needs to like alternate
2:02:56all in one line. So, it's going to look
2:02:57like a garbled mess. So, it's a little
2:02:59harder to track in my opinion, but some
2:03:01people prefer it. Do
2:03:02>> you know what? If I get to 31 seconds,
2:03:04just tell me and I'll stop. Okay.
2:03:07>> Cuz it's that you're already
2:03:08anticipating it's going to be that
2:03:09painful.
2:03:10>> Yeah.
2:03:10>> Okay. All right. Get ready.
2:03:12>> Yeah.
2:03:12>> Get set. Go.
2:03:13>> Hey.
2:03:23I forgot to count. That's weird.
2:03:28>> [snorts]
2:03:28>> Oh my gosh, this is a show.
2:03:32Where was I? Uh there. [sighs and gasps]
2:03:38I think I cheated. I just feel like I've
2:03:40cheated.
2:03:43>> I'm sorry. We're at 30. How far did you
2:03:47get?
2:03:47>> I got to number eight. Okay,
2:03:49>> so that was my math isn't great, but
2:03:52that is 40%
2:03:55of the speed as when I just focused
2:03:58differently 60% slower when I was
2:04:02multitasking between
2:04:03>> numbers and letters.
2:04:05>> So on a daily basis, theoretically, I'm
2:04:07losing potentially 60% of my
2:04:09productivity theoretically just by
2:04:12switching between two different types of
2:04:13tasks at once.
2:04:14>> Yeah. So, you're not only getting less
2:04:16done, energetically,
2:04:19one is more expensive than the other. Do
2:04:21>> you know what? It was It was way less
2:04:25enjoyable. It was painful. Do you know
2:04:27the other thing?
2:04:27>> Oh, yeah.
2:04:28>> It really did remind me of the how I've
2:04:31been working because every time I went
2:04:34from one line to the other, I went from
2:04:35the letters to the number, I had to like
2:04:37remind myself again of where I was with
2:04:41the numbers.
2:04:42>> Yes.
2:04:42>> Does that make sense? And then when I
2:04:43went back to the letters, I was like,
2:04:44where are we again with the letters?
2:04:46>> Totally.
2:04:47>> So there was a little bit of a gap there
2:04:48in me like trying to figure out what
2:04:50came after the letter I, for example.
2:04:53It's really fascinating cuz it Yeah. So
2:04:55illuminating.
2:04:56>> By the way, there's a there's a name for
2:04:58that concept that you were just you were
2:05:00feeling it. It's palpable.
2:05:01>> Yeah.
2:05:01>> It's called attentional residue.
2:05:03>> Yeah.
2:05:04>> I know it sounds gross, right?
2:05:06>> Yeah. Attention. Yeah.
2:05:07>> I call it attentional baggage because I
2:05:09find the visual that that creates
2:05:11better. Meaning you carry
2:05:15into the next task all the the
2:05:18baggage from the previous task unless
2:05:20you close out. I I say get cognitive
2:05:22closure.
2:05:24>> Close out the tab, so to speak, on your
2:05:27computer and just be like, "All right,
2:05:28this I'm going to do." Cleanup shop. Get
2:05:31cognitive closure. Close the box. And
2:05:34don't carry one bag into, you know, box
2:05:37or a bag. Don't carry it from one thing
2:05:38into the next thing. Try to as much as
2:05:40possible get cognitive closure. When you
2:05:43multitask one, you're barely onboarding
2:05:46to the next task. You're carrying
2:05:47from the last one. It's taking you
2:05:49longer to actually finish anything
2:05:52up to, you know, by the way, over 2
2:05:54hours a day is the estimated average now
2:05:57for the average knowledge worker just
2:05:58bouncing between screens and different
2:06:00tasks. I think it's absolutely wild.
2:06:03>> So, we have a closing tradition on this
2:06:04podcast where the last guest leaves a
2:06:05question for the next guest not knowing
2:06:07who they're leaving it for. The question
2:06:09left for you, very good question left
2:06:11for you. Very good question. I love when
2:06:12this happens. Is
2:06:15how can the audience become more lucky?
2:06:21>> I love this question.
2:06:24>> And I have an answer,
2:06:28which is nice.
2:06:29>> Yes,
2:06:30>> it's nice when that happens.
2:06:33Luck.
2:06:37The way to become more lucky is to prime
2:06:42the mind, to train it, I would say, to
2:06:46look for luck, your luck, cuz lucky for
2:06:49you, I'm assuming, would be is very
2:06:50different than my luck and the next
2:06:53person's luck.
2:06:56>> You have to know what your Everest is.
2:06:58Again, you need to go to that deathbed.
2:07:01Figure out what a good life for you is.
2:07:03Figure out what your intentions are and
2:07:06your goals. Like what is it that you're
2:07:07looking for? Cuz if you don't know, then
2:07:10there's nothing for you to look for. We
2:07:12have we don't even know what you want to
2:07:13get lucky at. Right?
2:07:15>> Mhm.
2:07:15>> So, one, you have to get crystal clear
2:07:17on what it is that you want, right? Once
2:07:19you're crystal clear on what you want,
2:07:21you need to ask yourself and remind
2:07:22yourself on a daily basis what that
2:07:24Everest is. And then you need to it's
2:07:27it's that you said it beautifully. Is it
2:07:29pedal versus podium?
2:07:31>> Right? What is the one thing I can do
2:07:34today that is going to make me
2:07:36incrementally closer to that long-term
2:07:39goal? If you prime the mind with what is
2:07:44your goal, what is your Everest, what is
2:07:48uh what what your objectives are, what
2:07:49you're looking for, what you're hoping
2:07:51to get lucky about, what you're hoping
2:07:53to get lucky in, then if it's on your
2:07:56mind instead of all the that we
2:07:59fill the mind with, this is turning the
2:08:02signal up.
2:08:03>> Mhm. We've talked all of this
2:08:05conversation has been about turning the
2:08:07noise down and parts we talk about the
2:08:11signal when we talk about your ultimate
2:08:14why your Everest your long-term goals
2:08:16that deathbed self
2:08:19and then we talk about the MITs which is
2:08:21the pedal how can I drive my day what
2:08:24can I do today that's going to make me
2:08:25incrementally closer to that long-term
2:08:27goal right that's the the what so to
2:08:30speak
2:08:32in order to get more lucky. The mind
2:08:37bit spooky, it will look for data and
2:08:42evidence to support its beliefs.
2:08:44>> Either way,
2:08:45>> either way. So, if you ruminate, if you
2:08:48stay in that victim mindset, if you stay
2:08:51in that, oh, look at my shortcomings.
2:08:53I'm never going to make it, but I'm so
2:08:54far away from that. The Everest is all
2:08:56the way up there. Guess what you will
2:08:59notice? What you will notice are closed
2:09:03doors because apparently you're a victim
2:09:06and they're not for you. You will notice
2:09:09all of your shortcomings and you'll
2:09:10focus on them. This is a focus machine.
2:09:12As we said,
2:09:14this thing is designed to look for the
2:09:18evidence and find the evidence that
2:09:21confirms its beliefs.
2:09:23It's constantly scanning. So, if you
2:09:26prime this thing Oh.
2:09:31You'll find your luck cuz your luck is
2:09:33right there. The opportunities are
2:09:35there. The world is not full of brick
2:09:38walls the way that it may seem. Those
2:09:41brick walls are doors. They have
2:09:43handles.
2:09:44>> I'm a lucky person. I'm a lucky person.
2:09:45But I'm a lucky person. I'm a lucky
2:09:47person. I'm a lucky person.
2:09:48>> I feel like that's manifestation. I want
2:09:50to push you further. And if people are
2:09:52into that, I think great positive
2:09:54thinking. That's all it's all lovely and
2:09:56beautiful. I mean, what are you trying
2:09:58to achieve here?
2:10:00What are you trying to achieve is like,
2:10:01do you have a guest that you're trying
2:10:03to bring on that you that you've not
2:10:04been able to to to find and you're just
2:10:06upset? Like, I want you to be wake up
2:10:08every single day and just like be like,
2:10:10I will find my way to you. You will find
2:10:15>> Let's get Barack Obama on this podcast.
2:10:17Let's do it. No, no. If you keep saying
2:10:18it, it will happen. But it's not just
2:10:20about saying it. You will be thinking
2:10:22about like that is one of my goals. you,
2:10:25I promise you, you're going to see
2:10:26opportunities. You're going to end up
2:10:28meeting one of his former chiefs of
2:10:29staff at a random. It's just going to
2:10:31happen because it's top of mind for you.
2:10:33And your brain is designed to look for
2:10:36the evidence and the data to support its
2:10:39beliefs. So, if you truly believe Barack
2:10:41will be on this podcast,
2:10:45he'll find his way to this chair.
2:10:48[laughter]
2:10:50>> No, we know he has to, right? We've
2:10:52spoken it into the universe. He's got
2:10:54to. He's got to.
2:10:55>> I mean, [snorts] I just love your work
2:10:56for so many reasons. I think sometimes
2:10:57the complicated can stay complicated
2:10:59until it finds someone like you who has
2:11:01the ability to simplify and have the
2:11:03empathy to understand those that they're
2:11:06simplifying it for. And I was super
2:11:08excited to see you just started a
2:11:09YouTube channel.
2:11:10>> I did.
2:11:10>> And I would highly recommend people go
2:11:12and subscribe to your YouTube channel.
2:11:13I'll link it below, but it should be if
2:11:15we collab, you should be able to see the
2:11:16little icon there. Highly recommend um
2:11:18you go and subscribe to Dr. Sahara
2:11:20because, you know, she's continuing to
2:11:23do great work. She's continuing to learn
2:11:24and share that knowledge with all of us.
2:11:25And it saves us having to build these
2:11:28superhuman labs that she's built. Um, we
2:11:30can just go follow her and um have the,
2:11:33you know, you don't want the algorithm
2:11:34to be serving up your content. You want
2:11:36the subscription button. So, go ahead
2:11:37and follow Dr. Saha over on her channel
2:11:39as well. Is there anywhere else people
2:11:41should go to get your work or to
2:11:43understand more about you or to follow
2:11:44you?
2:11:46I want to help people one gain control
2:11:49over their lives and live a life of
2:11:51intention of their choosing whatever it
2:11:54is that they want to do.
2:11:56>> So my humble recommendation is to
2:12:00gain some data on you to actually assess
2:12:04your digital dependence. Assess your
2:12:07attention span. You ever taken a test of
2:12:09your attention? Like do you know where
2:12:11it falls? Like like maybe it's not so
2:12:12bad. Maybe you're off the charts
2:12:14amazing. we don't need to worry about
2:12:15it. Right? I'm a firm believer the way
2:12:17that um and I would love the world to
2:12:19change in this way and I know and I and
2:12:22I and I hope in some small part we can
2:12:24help make this more of a common thing
2:12:27that people do. But the same way that we
2:12:29go to the doctor once a year and we have
2:12:31this like annual physical usually, you
2:12:33know, like how am I doing? I get a blood
2:12:34test. You check all the things. Why is
2:12:36it that we're not checking our minds?
2:12:39>> We don't do that. We just wait for it to
2:12:41go to and then we do something
2:12:43about it. Like we wait for the car to be
2:12:44on fire and then we're like, "Oh, oops."
2:12:46No, we should have things that we're
2:12:48doing along the way. But how do we know
2:12:52what to do? The data. If we collect data
2:12:56and we actually have assessments
2:12:57available to people. So I'm a extremely
2:13:00passionate about making scientific
2:13:03assessments available to the general
2:13:04public. I think science should be for
2:13:06people, not profits.
2:13:07>> Where do I find the assessment?
2:13:09>> You go to mmminstitute.org.
2:13:12mm
2:13:14>> mind machine and meaning
2:13:16>> institute.org okay I'll link that below
2:13:18and I'll put it really big on the screen
2:13:20here mminstitute.org
2:13:23free assessments
2:13:26thank you so much for being here such a
2:13:27man please keep doing the work that
2:13:28you're doing you're a you're a star and
2:13:31sometimes once in a while I meet stars
2:13:32and you're certainly a star so I'm
2:13:34excited to watch your career unfold from
2:13:35here on outwards thank you Dr. Sarah,
2:13:37we're done.
2:13:38>> Thank you.
2:13:39>> Okay, so if you've enjoyed this episode,
2:13:41we're going to do a world first. As I
2:13:42said at the start of this episode, we're
2:13:44going to turn this whole conversation
2:13:46into a live interactive workshop that's
2:13:48taking place soon with me and Dr. Saha.
2:13:51If you want to sign up and be part of
2:13:52that, there's a link on screen now and
2:13:54there's a link below. Here's what you'll
2:13:56get from it. When we have these two,
2:13:57three-hour conversations, there's so
2:13:59much information, but often times you
2:14:01message me and say, "Stephen, like, I
2:14:02learned all this stuff, but I don't know
2:14:03what to do next." It's kind of like we
2:14:05walk you to the shop and then we leave
2:14:06you in the shop door. So, with this
2:14:08workshop that me and Dr. Sahara are
2:14:09going to put on, we're going to take
2:14:10everything you learned today and break
2:14:12it into actionable principles that you
2:14:14can take into your own life with
2:14:16physical workbooks and other materials
2:14:18so that it sticks and also you'll become
2:14:21part of the community who are all
2:14:23working on this challenge and
2:14:25opportunity together. I hope to see you
2:14:27there. There is only a certain amount of
2:14:28people that can join the workshop
2:14:29because we do have a limit. If it sounds
2:14:30at all interesting, trust me, this is
2:14:32the one you want to join. It's going to
2:14:34be amazing. The link is below and I hope
2:14:35to see you guys there.
2:14:37YouTube have this new crazy algorithm
2:14:39where they know exactly what video you
2:14:41would like to watch next based on AI and
2:14:43all of your viewing behavior. And the
2:14:45algorithm says that this video is the
2:14:48perfect video for you. It's different
2:14:50for everybody looking right now. Check
2:14:52this video out and I bet you you might
2:14:54love

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