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Philip Sayce Breaks Down His Most Iconic Guitar Parts — Transcript

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0:00Let's play [music]
0:06Philips Ace's rules around W placement.
0:09I just had Germanium fuzz face and box
0:11wall. I like to use this Caesar Diaz
0:13square face on the other side of the W
0:15pedal.
0:15>> Ah, so you have you you double fuzz.
0:19[music]
0:22>> How did you even get involved with Jeff
0:24Healey?
0:24>> He was always a hero of mine. You know,
0:26if you played hockey, it would be like
0:28Sydney Crosby coming up to you and
0:29saying like, "Hey, man. I like what
0:30you're doing. Why don't you play on my
0:32wing for a while and I'll I'll show you
0:33some Just be open for a pass.
0:39[music]
0:42>> A brief history of these two guitars.
0:44Got it in 1998 and I [music] was working
0:46with Jeff Healey at the time. I had
0:47saved up and a 63 Strat. I remember
0:49playing it and I fell in love with it,
0:51too. I was like, man, that's a special
0:52instrument. [music]
0:53This is now known as Big Daddy."
0:55>> Yeah. So named after my dad.
1:00[music]
1:19>> [music]
1:20>> All right. That guy sings pretty good.
1:22>> Yeah.
1:23>> Yeah. [laughter]
1:24>> Does it feel weird when you're playing
1:26over yourself singing?
1:28>> I mean, that's like usually in uh Yeah,
1:31it's a little weird.
1:32>> A little weird.
1:32>> Yeah, it's a little weird because
1:33usually I'm trying to do both at the
1:35same time, but
1:35>> Yeah. Well, if they didn't already know,
1:38we got the great Philip Se here of one
1:40of my all-time favorite guitar players
1:43and just honored to have him touch my
1:46knee. [laughter]
1:47>> Thanks, man. Appreciate you, Mason. It's
1:50a pleasure and a privilege to chat with
1:51you today and thanks for the invite to
1:53hang out today. And
1:54>> shout out to Mark for hosting us.
1:56>> Seriously, Mark,
1:57>> Dr. Mark Reigns.
1:59>> Uh we're here at Station House Studio in
2:01Echo Park. Well, I'm wondering starting
2:03off with spirit.
2:06>> Yeah.
2:07>> I'm curious already like we we got some
2:10fuzz in here. We got some Waw Wa in
2:12here. Was there anything else that was
2:13running other than that for this?
2:14>> No, I just I just had uh for what we
2:16what we play we're playing uh uh
2:19Germanmanium Fuzace and
2:20>> Germanium Fuzz Face
2:22>> and and Vox Wawa.
2:23>> And this is just a Clyde McCoy Voxwa.
2:26>> Yeah. Now, this is going to be the first
2:28of many gear questions because I feel
2:29like when I'm in sort of one of my tone
2:33disciples presents, I sort of have to
2:35get all of the kind of the the questions
2:38answered. There are a lot of people that
2:40have questions about W placement
2:43relative to other devices. You see some
2:45guys that might use them after
2:47distortion or they won't use them before
2:49fuzzes because they don't like how it
2:51affects the sweep. M
2:52>> what [clears throat] is sort of uh
2:54Philips's rules around W placement in a
2:58signal path?
2:59>> Sometimes I like to have it on this side
3:00which is the side that maybe I'm
3:02accustomed to hearing. Somebody like
3:03Hrix in the live recordings might have
3:05used it in this setup. Then the other
3:08side, you know, I sometimes I like to
3:10use this Caesar Diaz Squareace a lot and
3:13um which I think is a brilliant pedal.
3:15uh he designed with Stevie Rayvon and
3:17it's such a amazing sounding pedal and I
3:19like to actually use that on the other
3:21side of the W pedal.
3:22>> Ah so you have you you double fuzz
3:24>> sometimes sometimes double fuzz. So have
3:27one on this side uh you know where it
3:29kind of it doesn't you don't get the
3:31same kind of w but you get definitely
3:32it'll cut through the mix right like the
3:34w
3:35>> um and on the other side you get a super
3:37expressive w and I feel like I've seen
3:40some videos where Steve Rayvon was using
3:42his fuzz on that side of the wall. I
3:44guess the better question is what do you
3:46hear is the difference? Yeah, it maybe
3:48is the better question when you go
3:50guitar fuzz wah versus guitar wah fuzz.
3:54>> Okay. So, well maybe the best way to be
3:56to just play it. So, this is a
3:58germanmanium fuzz. So, and this is a
4:00silicon fuzz. Silicon fuzz.
4:01>> You got your fuzz face down. Okay. So,
4:02fuzz face, germanmanium fuzz face,
4:05>> geranium and silicon. The silicon is
4:06going to do different things than the
4:08geranium will with the fuzz face, but
4:09for now, we'll just use the the the
4:11germanmanium. Okay. But this is how it
4:13sounds on this side.
4:39So you can hear there's not like a whole
4:40lot of like wah wah. It's just kind of
4:42more like a
4:42>> right. It abbreviates that sweep and
4:44just makes it much narrower in terms of
4:47kind of what it's what's available.
4:48>> Totally. But that sound is amazing in a
4:51band that's cranking. That sound is
4:53explosive. It's like a huge energy which
4:56obviously Hendrickx invented 60 70 years
4:59ago. But um
5:00>> is there a Hendrick song that comes to
5:01mind when you sort of think of like that
5:02fuzz and really like narrow pointed wall
5:05sound?
5:05>> I think you listen to Vuda Job.
5:07>> Yeah. I mean, that's a he's just that's
5:08a prime example, right, of him working
5:12>> working the tools to make the guitar
5:14kick out, right? And like smacking.
5:16>> I love that. And then if we were going
5:17to And then if we were going to go fuzz
5:20into W. Can we hear how that sounds?
5:23>> Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. So, here I'll
5:24just plug this in. And to be clear, this
5:26is Caesar Diaz's sort of take on a fuzz
5:29face in collaboration with Steve Gravon.
5:32Would that be a correct
5:32characterization?
5:33>> That's my understanding. Yeah. And let's
5:35see what it does in here. Like
5:37go.
5:56>> So, it's a totally different experience
5:58with the with the fuzz, right?
5:59>> Yeah.
5:59>> So, it's uh So, that's why I think it
6:02it's cool to have a fuzz on either side.
6:04Where do you think that would like that
6:05type of sound would have been used? Like
6:07if we're talking Stevie or Jimmy sort of
6:10lineage, what do you where do you hear
6:12that?
6:12>> You know, maybe on some of the the his
6:16version of Voodoo Child, the live
6:18versions sort of
6:19>> 1989 and 1990. I think you could hear a
6:22little bit more of that
6:23>> that real like wow just jumps right out.
6:26Um like even if you watch it on Austin
6:27City Limits
6:28>> Yeah.
6:28>> you can hear that that kind of really uh
6:31that kind of sound I think. Yeah. But
6:33you know what? Wasn't there.
6:35>> Well, I think I think that you've got a
6:36pretty good sort of radar for that
6:40stuff. I feel like you're you're pretty
6:41attuned, I think, to to these effects
6:44and where their use cases might how that
6:46might translate um in a live setting.
6:48So, I I would trust that. Well, I'm
6:50wondering, Philip, if we can go
6:52backwards in time, and I'll try not to
6:54make you rehash stuff that you've talked
6:56about a million times, but let's just
6:58pretend, for example, that some of the
7:00people that are listening, they're
7:01already inspired by the play. and they
7:02want to hear a little bit kind of in the
7:04beginning. And my first introduction to
7:06you was the I think it was a 99 uh uh
7:10DVD, live DVD you did with Jeff Healey
7:13and you were you know the the hot shot
7:15young guitar slinger. But if we go back
7:18before that like how did you even get
7:20involved with Jeff Healey or like you
7:22know you went to Jeff Healey University.
7:24Yeah.
7:24>> You know and so like what's tell me
7:27about that. He was always a hero of mine
7:29even before I I learned how to, you
7:31know, was learning how to play guitar
7:32because he was from Toronto.
7:33>> And growing up at home, my parents
7:35always listened to like all the cool
7:37guitar players. Um, everyone from like
7:39Mark Nofler to Ray Cudter and um
7:42certainly Eric Clapton, George Harrison,
7:44and and the blues players. My dad turned
7:46me on to Buddy Guy and people like
7:47Albert Collins and Fabulous Thunderbirds
7:49who listened to, Stevie Rayvon, of
7:51course,
7:52>> and Jeff Healey. So when I started
7:53playing, Jeff was one of my big
7:55influences along with people like Stevie
7:57Ray and Albert Collins and Robert Cray
7:59and all these cool players and and then
8:01I started playing in clubs when I was 16
8:03and and I just kind of like put my head
8:05and heart into it big time and it's all
8:07I did just played all day all night and
8:10um got a got a gig playing in a um a
8:13band that played all around sort of
8:14locally in the Toronto area in um in
8:18different bars and venues. So it was
8:19cool. they were more experienced players
8:21and really really good and they gave me
8:23a chance. I got a super reverb and just
8:25kind of went out and they let me kind of
8:27cut my teeth a bit and from there I
8:29ended up opening for the Fabulous
8:30Thunderbirds in Toronto at a club called
8:32the Horseshoe and um it was a really fun
8:35night and there was a label there and
8:37they said, "Hey, we'd like to sign you
8:38to this thing." I was like, "All right,
8:40cool. Let's do it." So, I started
8:41recording for that. Um and right around
8:45the same time I was playing in clubs and
8:46just kind of getting going. when I was
8:47still a teenager and and uh really dear
8:50friend of mine and mine, lifelong
8:51friend, Corey Miluck is his name. So
8:53Corey went to Jeff and said, "Hey man,
8:56there's this guy I met and he really
8:58loves you and he kind of reminds me of
9:00you a little bit like you know he's got
9:01the enthusiasm and he loves it. He's
9:03working [clears throat] hard and so Jeff
9:05started coming out to some shows and I
9:06didn't know that he was there and then
9:07we ran into each other at a club and he
9:10said, "Come on." And we sat in and we
9:11came outside the club and he said, "Hey
9:13man, how would you like to join my
9:14band?" And I was like, "What? Are you
9:15kidding me?" and he said, "Yeah." He's
9:17like, "I know you got your own thing
9:18going, but um what we'll do is we'll
9:21kind of groom you. We'll teach you how
9:22to play on the international level, big
9:25stages. We're going to be playing Montro
9:26Jazz Festival this summer.
9:28>> Join my band. I'm going to teach you how
9:30to do it." You know, if you played
9:31hockey, it would be like Sydney Crosby
9:33coming up to you and saying like, "Hey,
9:34man. I like what you're doing. Why don't
9:36you play on my wing for a while and I'll
9:38I'll show you some Just be open
9:39for a pass and let's make some magic."
9:41And
9:42>> he was just I got goosebumps talking
9:44about him right now.
9:45>> Yeah. Well, I'm wondering, Philillip, if
9:46we can play another one of your songs
9:49and uh and and move move us into some
9:52some more conversation to follow.
9:54>> Yeah, let's do it.
9:55>> What are you feeling in the mood for?
9:56>> I don't know, man. I think we were
9:58talking about that song, Powerful Thing.
10:00Love it.
10:00>> Let's play it.
10:01>> All right, man. Let's do it.
10:05[music]
10:14Yeah. [music]
10:21[music]
10:22Heat.
10:28[music]
10:32Heat. Heat. [music]
10:39[music]
10:42Heat. Heat.
10:45[music]
10:51[music]
10:59>> [music]
11:07>> Heat.
11:16Heat.
11:34Heat. Heat.
11:37[music]
11:46>> [screaming]
11:53>> Woo! Yeah. Hell yeah. All right.
11:57[laughter]
11:58That's fun. I haven't like played like
12:00with that since we recorded it. So, it
12:02was fun.
12:02>> Yeah. What do you think about the How do
12:03you like that stem separation? By the
12:05way,
12:06>> you know what? It worked out all right.
12:07The thing I appreciate the company that
12:09does is Mois. It's like a student tool.
12:11Like Berkeley College of Music uses it
12:13as like a way for like students to like,
12:15you know, learn songs. They can slow
12:17them down. They can change the key.
12:19>> Done a little bit of that like uh stem
12:21splitting like when when it first came
12:22on the scene a little bit and just like
12:24putting in like my favorite song and it
12:26was like splitting I was like,
12:27>> "Wow, this is crazy,
12:29>> right?" And you hear stuff you never
12:30even knew about, you know, and
12:31>> it's wild.
12:32>> Yeah, this is wild. You know, we use it
12:33all the time for these because a lot of
12:35these guys that we talked to, even the
12:36legends that maybe even, you know,
12:38played on this stuff, they don't have
12:40their their stuff anymore, you know,
12:41they don't they don't have their they
12:43don't have the masters. They don't have
12:43the ability to stem split it. So, we've
12:46relied on Moises for for all that stuff,
12:48you know, and
12:49>> I I think this worked out great.
12:50>> Thanks for taking the time to Yeah. And
12:52I I'll I'll link it if people want to
12:53check it out in the description cuz it's
12:54it is a very useful tool and and I think
12:56that there's even versions of it that
12:57are like free, you know, depending on
12:59what kind of level you get. It was kind
13:01of emotional, I have to say. Like
13:03playing on some of the stuff that was
13:05recorded like a long time ago,
13:07>> right?
13:07>> I just felt
13:09>> like a bit of time travel, too. Yeah.
13:10>> It was like really wild, man. To like
13:13>> to like play with some of that stuff
13:15like that you pulled up,
13:16>> you know, split those tracks on like
13:18that's really
13:19>> Yeah.
13:19>> That you know, that's cool.
13:21>> And what's the story with this tube
13:22screamer? This is kind of the one you've
13:23always used, right? So, at least since
13:24I've known you. Yeah, this is uh just a
13:27a really really great sounding uh 808
13:30that I've had for a hundred years and I
13:32got it from uh my buddy Tony D. Roza in
13:35Toronto. Um he owned this and I remember
13:39always like playing it and be like,
13:40"Man, that's a good one. It just sounds
13:42really good." And then one day he said,
13:43"Hey, you want to buy it?" And I was
13:44like, "Yes."
13:45>> And it's just always been my go-to one.
13:47And I've got a few nines that my my dear
13:50friend Mike Lant from Toronto gave me.
13:52And this is one of them. It sounds
13:54amazing, too. Like that's that's a very
13:56special one. So
13:57>> can we go into tube screamer departure
13:58for just a moment? So
14:01>> how much variation do you find in tube
14:04screamers? Like when you go and you you
14:07know and you put on your civilian hat
14:09and you play some other tube screamers,
14:12do you find that there is a a like just
14:15ones that are great and then the other
14:16ones are sort of just like pedestrian or
14:18do you feel like they can kind of all
14:20get to the same place or like what's
14:22your what's your take on that? you know,
14:24for the old ones. So, like I'm grateful
14:26to have a handful. I don't have like I'm
14:28not a collector or something, but I have
14:30>> maybe I have four or five tube screamers
14:32that are [clears throat] that are old
14:33early late, you know, early '8s ones.
14:35>> Um, they all get you there. They all,
14:38you know, they're all exciting,
14:40>> but all kind of like feel different
14:42under the fingers.
14:44>> So, that's kind of the difference. Like
14:45maybe listening out front it doesn't
14:47sound like totally different
14:49>> but there's a but this input is
14:50important for that output you know
14:53>> it's how it feels under the fingers and
14:55honestly like this one has like a
14:56certain sound that none of them have
14:58this 808 I don't know what it is
15:00>> yeah this one doesn't sound you know
15:02everybody usually characterizes a bad
15:04tube screamer as boxy right
15:06>> this doesn't sound like that at all
15:08>> yeah no this one I you know it just I'm
15:10grateful to have it it's just a really
15:11really cool sounding pedal and
15:13>> but this is hard to find in other words
15:15You couldn't just go to any like pull
15:17something off the shelf and be able to
15:19sort of approximate this.
15:21>> I think it's, you know, I think it's
15:23within a certain percentage. I think
15:26within 10%. Yes. Okay.
15:28>> I think within 10%. Yeah. I think, you
15:30know, um
15:32>> like anything like any old two old
15:34strats, you know, could be from the same
15:35month, the same week, but they're going
15:36to
15:37>> one plays a little better or one sounds
15:39better to you. I think it's beauties in
15:40the eye of the beholder a lot of times.
15:42So, it's like what you might be looking
15:44for into your fingers is different than
15:45what I might like. So, all these things
15:47are very personal, but um but for me,
15:50yeah, I like how this one sounds and and
15:52for me, I like how that TS9 sounds
15:54compared to all the other ones that I've
15:56played.
15:56>> And do you get particular about it being
15:58like a JRC 4558, you know, or or is it
16:01just like if it's got the Mojo, it's got
16:03the Mojo?
16:04>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's more if
16:05it's got the got the right sound cuz I
16:07played all the ones with all the
16:09different chips and whatever and it's
16:10like
16:11>> well that one doesn't sound that great
16:12and it's not I'm not or that one sounds
16:14amazing. I'm not supposed to like that
16:16one according to the internet. So
16:18>> um yeah I think this is this has always
16:20been
16:21>> the the key for me is when I play it if
16:23I like it then that's that's what I'm
16:26into. If the you know somebody on the
16:28internet says don't ever use that one it
16:29sucks maybe that's true for them. Do you
16:31feel like there's anybody contemporary
16:33that's kind of gotten it right? We we
16:35talked a little bit about MJM, Blues
16:37Devil as like an example of like a
16:39contemporary tube screamer that's really
16:41great. Is there any other ones that come
16:42to mind? Not that these are the only
16:44ones, but maybe ones that just are top
16:47of mind.
16:48>> Yeah, I thought MJM has did a great job
16:50even like 20 plus years ago. Like
16:52they've been in the game a long time
16:54doing a great job. I love their
16:55aesthetic, too. It was just kind of like
16:57a vertical like label maker tape, kind
16:59of like a tube script. It was very cool.
17:02I love that.
17:02>> Me, too. I Yeah, the ones I have that I
17:04still have are still have that tape.
17:06It's all like peeling off. Yeah, it
17:07looks cool. Um,
17:09>> but I thought that MJM, they did a great
17:11job. Do a great job. Um, I actually
17:13played a pedal by uh Pedal Pawn I
17:16thought was great. Their Cowboy King. I
17:17was like, man, that pedal sounds very
17:19good.
17:19>> Um,
17:20>> is that just supposed to be like an
17:21eight 808 or a nine or is it
17:23>> I can't remember. It's a tube screamer
17:25of sorts, but I thought it sounded very
17:27good. Um, I thought Jesse Davyy hit it
17:29out of the park, too, with
17:31>> uh the King Tone pedals he had in that
17:33great.
17:34>> So, I think there are people making
17:35great sounding pedals uh in this vein.
17:38There's another uh company um I think
17:41it's is he in Indonesia perhaps?
17:44Something Jubilee.
17:45>> Not Not Apollo approved.
17:46>> Apollo approved. Yeah, I thought Apollo
17:48approved was pretty good, too. I played
17:50those I thought, man, that's a great
17:51sounding pedal.
17:52>> Yeah. Well, I'm wondering, Philillip, if
17:53we kind of like fast forward in the
17:55lineage, how did you kind of first start
17:58getting gigs as a sideman? Like, how did
18:01you get introduced to like, you know,
18:03Uncle Cracker, Melissa Ethridge, like
18:06how did that whole component of your
18:08career sort of come about?
18:09>> Yeah, man. Well, I appreciate you asking
18:11about it. And uh you know, the thing was
18:14I wasn't looking to be a side person for
18:16anyone because I was busy doing my own
18:18thing. And when the Jeff Healey
18:20opportunity came along, this was a
18:21no-brainer. I was like, "Of course, of
18:23course I'm going to study with one of
18:24the greatest ever."
18:25>> Right. Right. Since Jeff,
18:27>> and it wasn't really a side gig. He let
18:29me front the band for a couple songs,
18:31>> right? I remember cuz even in that
18:32Montro gig, you he gives you like a few
18:35songs, right?
18:36>> And I was I was so nervous, man. Like it
18:39was Robert Cray, BB King, Ronnie Earl on
18:41that bill, right? It was mantro jazz. I
18:43was like 20 years old. I was like,
18:45"What?" Like I'm so green. I was really
18:47and he just said, "Go for it, man. Go
18:49get him." And so my my girlfriend, who's
18:51now my wife, we moved from Toronto to
18:53Los Angeles.
18:54>> Cuz that's Marty had said, "Hey man, you
18:56got to be out here in LA." Uh Mike
18:58Bradford was the other producer I was
19:00working with and he's like, "You got to
19:02be out here, man." And so we just kind
19:04of came out to see what would happen.
19:05And I just kind of like started going
19:07out to jams every night at the time. I
19:09was just like, where's there an open
19:10jam?
19:10>> This is blown people away. You showing
19:12up at Cadillac Zachs or something, the
19:14Sugar Miller.
19:15>> I don't know, man. Like I, you know,
19:17there's so many great players in LA and
19:18you know, I just was like, you know,
19:20there'd be like a list and I just like
19:21put my name on the can I sit in and I'd
19:23be sitting there all night. Got there at
19:258:00 and now it's 11:30, 12, 12:30. Can
19:29we get Phillip up here? And then like
19:30I'd go up and sit in for a song and it
19:33was 1:30 in the morning or whatever. And
19:35>> anyway, that turned into like a group
19:37that had just started a label. Um, did
19:40some work with them. It didn't really go
19:42anywhere, but made good friends with
19:44them. And um, at the same time, I'd come
19:47to to LA to work uh, with producer Mike
19:50Bradford on my own stuff um, through
19:53Atlantic at the time. And Uncle Cracker
19:56was on that label. And uh, he needed a
19:59guy that could play and sing. And Mike
20:01Bradford said, "Hey, Phil, do you want
20:02to do this?" And I said, "Sure. I just
20:05got to LA. I don't know anyone. I don't
20:06know how I'm going to pay rent. I don't
20:07know what I'm going to do. So, yeah,
20:08I'll check it out." And it ended up
20:10being like a huge, huge hit. You know,
20:13Matt, Uncle Cracker, Matt was always a
20:16great guy to work with. He was really
20:17nice to me. I I really learned a lot
20:19from him and um had a great time working
20:22with him and his band. Yeah. They were a
20:24lot of fun.
20:25>> Yeah.
20:25>> And then how did that parlay into like
20:27the the the next thing with with because
20:30Melissa came after that, right?
20:31>> Melissa came shortly after that. Yeah,
20:33like we I worked with uh with Matt,
20:35Uncle Cracker, those guys for uh about a
20:37year and a half
20:38>> and it was an adventure. It was wild. It
20:40was great time. And um I met John Shanks
20:43in LA at a guitar store. I was trying
20:46some amps out and I was playing them and
20:48and uh Shanks walked in and he just kind
20:51of came over and said like just said,
20:53"Hey, I'm John. Who are you?" I'm like,
20:54"I'm Philip." He's like, "All right,
20:56cool." And he was kind of like standing
20:57around for a minute and like kind of
20:59introduced himself. We had a nice little
21:00chat and uh I had no idea who he was or
21:03what he did and he just
21:04>> a super producer and guitar player
21:06>> super guitar hero dude and I didn't know
21:08and so he gave me his card and
21:10>> uh I think at the time he may have been
21:12ANR at Atlantic or something but also
21:14had a studio at Hensen right
21:15>> so he's like come by man and I was like
21:17okay and I went by the studio and he had
21:20studio C which I think you were saying
21:23>> mayor is in there now John Mayor is in
21:24now
21:24>> yeah I did a bunch of work for him out
21:26in front of that you know you know yeah
21:28it's I mean it To me, it was like
21:30beautiful control room when you walk in
21:31and then like he had his live room. It's
21:33just like wall to-all amps and juicy
21:36guitars. Yeah.
21:37>> And I mean he at when I met him like he
21:40obviously I knew he was heavy but like I
21:41didn't know. And then I went over and
21:44>> he we just talked guitars for a while
21:45and and he was just such an endearing,
21:48intelligent guy and I liked him right
21:50away and very confident and just I
21:52thought he was cool.
21:53>> And he goes, "Hey man, check this out."
21:54He goes, "I'm working on this new
21:55Melissa record." He played me a song. I
21:57was like, "Man, that sounds amazing."
21:59And he said, "She's looking for someone.
22:01Are you interested?" And I was like, "I
22:03don't know. I never thought about it,
22:04but I love Melissa." And so I went home
22:07and just kind of thought about it. I
22:09didn't hear anything. And then a couple
22:11weeks later, I got a call to go meet
22:13Melissa for lunch
22:15>> and we met. And uh it wasn't even like a
22:18full audition thing. I think Melissa
22:20said to me, she said, "Well, you played
22:22with Jeff Healey, so you'll be fine."
22:24you know, it's like so she knew that he
22:26was like the dude. So it was it was
22:28great and uh
22:29>> we hit it off. We man, we had so much
22:31fun.
22:32>> What's your policy about uh E standard
22:34versus E flat on the Strat?
22:36>> I like them both. Yeah.
22:37>> Yeah, I like them both. Um I think that
22:39I like E flat
22:41>> a little more.
22:42>> It's a little bit uh
22:44>> I mean, you know, it sounds a little bit
22:46nastier somehow. I mean, I like D a lot,
22:48too, if you want to go all the way down.
22:50But, uh, it's certainly good on your
22:53voice if you're playing three, four
22:54shows in a row. Yeah.
22:55>> Uh, singing wise, but it also feels good
22:57on the hands.
22:58>> I like E flat, I would say.
23:00>> So, what what are your strings?
23:02>> So, we have actually I've got some right
23:04there if you want to. Yeah.
23:06>> So, the strings. Yeah. Thanks. So, the
23:08strings that I use now and have used for
23:11many, many years are Dario strings.
23:13Dario,
23:13>> you know, uh, Dario is uh,
23:17uh, they're just my favorite strings.
23:19They're a fantastic company and they've
23:20been really good to me and a lot of
23:23things I just find them to be really
23:24consistent.
23:25>> Yeah.
23:25>> And I find them to stay in tune really
23:27well. Particularly I just started over
23:29the last year or two using these NYXL.
23:31Yeah.
23:32>> And this is a set of 11 to 49s. But
23:34>> were you using XL's just previously to
23:36that
23:36>> whatever they're Yeah. These these guys
23:38these normal Yeah.
23:39>> Yeah. I guess those are the XL. Yeah.
23:41EXL.
23:42>> I was using those forever and then the
23:44guys at Diario said just like try these.
23:47And so I did. And at first I was like,
23:48I'm not sure.
23:49>> Can I check? These are the
23:51>> the 11 11 to to 49.
23:54>> 11 to 49. They stay in tune really well,
23:57man. They're good. But always, I've
23:59always liked their strings and um I try
24:02to tell my friends, man, if you're not
24:04using them, you should.
24:05>> I also noticed that you're using uh the
24:07American stage cable on all of your
24:09input cables from the guitar and output
24:11cables to the amp.
24:12>> That's right.
24:12>> So, uh what why these cables? you know,
24:15uh I just again they're Dario cables and
24:19I knew that I guess before they were
24:20called Planet Waves, right?
24:21>> Yeah, Planet Waves.
24:22>> Now it's just Dere Dario, right? So,
24:23>> yeah. And I think that the cables I I'm
24:25my understanding is is that the American
24:27stage is like a different thing than
24:29what they were doing at Planet Waves.
24:31And I you know, it's funny. I I did a
24:34rig for Robin Ford like I don't know 10
24:36years ago and I remember he liked this
24:38cable so much
24:39>> at the time. The the rep there, his name
24:41is Hugh Gil Martin. He now works with
24:43with Marshall. But he was like, "Huw, we
24:46need to send Mason out like 50 ft of
24:49just bulk American stage cable because I
24:51want my whole rig wired with it."
24:53>> And so, yeah, they sent me out like 50
24:55ft. I don't know if they just chopped
24:56off the the the connectors onto it and
24:59sent me 50 ft, but I remember having to
25:01wire the whole rig and it sounded really
25:02good. And I remember that was my first
25:03introduction. That was probably at least
25:0510 years ago.
25:06>> Wow. Yeah. Well, you know, when we were
25:08sending some texts back and forth, you
25:10were talking about, "What cables are you
25:11using?" And I took a picture of this and
25:12you were like, "Dude, those are really
25:14good cables."
25:14>> They are. It's probably the best value
25:16cable you can buy.
25:18>> Like it's it's 20 around 20 peoparads
25:20per foot, which is like a very good
25:22spec.
25:23>> Yeah.
25:23>> You know, beautifully braided copper
25:25shielding, you know, it's kind of like
25:27all the buzzwords that you would want as
25:28far as like transparency when it comes
25:30to cable, but actually like materially
25:32delivers. So,
25:34>> well, that's great. I mean, you know, I
25:36appreciate that, you know, all those
25:37technical aspects of it because I think
25:39>> it's just, you know, I got some
25:41different cables from them, different
25:42kinds of cables, and these are the ones
25:44that my ear gravitated toward. And also,
25:46they're
25:47>> kind of like tough on the road. Like,
25:49they're
25:49>> they've just been consistent and I've
25:51been able to use them for like years at
25:53a time. And whether I'm using them at
25:55home or out here in the studio or out
25:57touring, it's just been the cable that's
25:59and they're 30 foot. I like the 30 foot.
26:01I remember I remember seeing you go in
26:03San Francisco biscuits and blues all the
26:05way to the stage into the crowd with
26:06your
26:07>> American stage cable.
26:08>> That's right. Yeah. It's like a nice
26:10length. I mean that's my like Albert
26:12Collins wannabe move.
26:13>> What kind of rig were you using at that
26:15point like for amp and
26:16>> amps was I was using a Tommy Cougar um
26:19serious you were early then to Cougar.
26:22>> Yeah, I've been working with Tommy for
26:2320 years.
26:23>> How did you figure that out? Like were
26:24you in Europe when you figured him out
26:26or because he's in Sweden, right?
26:28>> Yeah. You know, I was I was at uh John
26:30Nelson's place on Sunset that Vintage
26:32Sound I think it was called that store.
26:33And I went in there. I used to go in
26:35there and find gear all the time. And so
26:36I went in there one day and there was
26:38this head there and it was one of
26:40Tommy's amps and I remember I got to try
26:41this. I heard about these and I played
26:43for 3 seconds. I was like, "Oh boy,
26:45that's it." And I went in and traded a
26:47bunch of stuff for it and I got it and
26:48that became the amp that I used for a
26:50long time. And and so I was using that
26:53and then I had a vibrone out on tour
26:54with Melissa too for the cougar amps.
26:57Like what would you describe those as?
26:59Like if if somebody I know a lot of us
27:01have seen them. I've never played
27:02through one.
27:03>> What would be sort of like your you know
27:07primitive comparison, you know, that
27:09couldn't couldn't possibly do it
27:10justice. But if you're just trying to
27:12explain to an alien what it is
27:13>> for my purpose, like a hi-fi fender,
27:15like a really high headroom, big big
27:18sounding hi-fi fender.
27:20>> Um maybe with some Marshall Woodiness in
27:22there. One of the amps we're using today
27:25is one of his amps. It's a 100 watt. Um,
27:28it's basically like a huge uh Showman or
27:31a twin. Okay.
27:32>> But it's in a small box. Four 6L6s. And
27:35then the uh
27:35>> It has reverb in it as well.
27:37>> Has reverb in it as well.
27:38>> And then the other amp I have going
27:40today is a Caesar Diaz uh 50 wide.
27:43>> Right. And it's deceptive out there cuz
27:45it's built into a little Fender
27:46Princeton.
27:47>> Yeah. And the the Princeton has a 12 in
27:49it, which is an EV. That's a 12L in
27:51there.
27:51>> Got it. Before we go to another song, I
27:54I do want to talk a little bit uh about
27:56Caesar Diaz cuz not many not many people
28:02ever got to really know him that well.
28:03He sort of predated the social media
28:07era. There are some guys that are kind
28:09of trying to revive what he did really
28:11great. Like I think Pedal Pawn is an
28:13example of like a company that I think
28:15is really trying to for at least from an
28:17outsider perspective trying to really
28:19respectfully sort of take some of the
28:22things that he did really great and
28:23tried to you know breathe new life into
28:25it.
28:26>> Um but you knew you knew him you had a
28:29relationship with it sounds like and he
28:30he made some amps for you and I think
28:32I've read some things where you brought
28:34him amps and then he like voiced them
28:36for you or something like that. Can you
28:37kind of talk about your relationship
28:39with Caesar Diaz, the legendary amptech
28:41for Stevie Rayvon?
28:42>> Yeah, I mean, I'd love to talk about
28:44Caesar and I think it's also, you know,
28:45just so cool to have the opportunity to
28:47talk about him on your platform here,
28:49you know, like
28:49>> like talking about Jeff or talking
28:51about, you know, it's important to talk
28:53about these artists
28:55>> because they're part of the architecture
28:57that we're all standing on. Like
28:59>> I've heard Robin Trower use this quote,
29:01but we're all just standing on the
29:02shoulders of giants. Yeah.
29:03>> And that's really true. It's all been
29:05done, right? So, we're just taking
29:07things that we've learned from the
29:08giants that have already been here and
29:09trying to do I'm trying to do the best
29:10that I can with it in my own way. And
29:12so, Caesar was a true giant in terms of
29:15tone
29:16>> and his uh
29:18>> just what he sort of created and how he
29:20helped uh players sound their best. And
29:23he worked Yeah, certainly. I found out
29:25about him through Stevie Rayvon
29:26interviews. Um but he
29:28>> GE Smith early days
29:30>> G Smith, Eric Clapton, uh George
29:32Harrison, Rolling Stones, Neil Young. I
29:35mean it's a huge list that he worked
29:37with
29:37>> uh very intimately on their tones
29:40>> and um but certainly Stevie because his
29:42sound is like I think probably you know
29:45everyone's tone is great but Stevie
29:47certainly for me is the most commanding
29:49sound. It's just like wow.
29:50>> Y
29:51>> and it was him but he worked with a
29:53great uh you know he had a great amp
29:56tech amp coach to work with.
29:57>> Right.
29:58>> And so Caesar you know I just looked him
29:59up in Vintage Guitar magazine and I
30:01called him up. I was on tour with Jeff.
30:03Uhhuh. Do you used to have like a like
30:04an ad in there that you Okay.
30:06>> Yeah. And I just looked him up and his
30:07number was in there and I remember I was
30:09in Chicago with Jeff Healey and we were
30:11playing and and Jeff had such a big
30:13sound on stage and I remember I was
30:15trying all these like boutique amps and
30:17trying to get like, oh, this is supposed
30:18to be a good amp. And once the band dug
30:20in, you couldn't hear the amps. It
30:22disappeared. It was like, well, they
30:23sound great on their own, but
30:24>> right,
30:25>> you just grab like even a 70s twin and
30:27put it out here and you could hear it
30:28better. like you just they got too
30:31pretty or something, too fancy with it.
30:32They sounded amazing, but when it was
30:35time to get down, they they just weren't
30:37they were disappearing. So, I called
30:38Caesar and I said, "Hey, I'm out with
30:39Jeff Healey.
30:41>> I need some help."
30:42>> He goes, "Cool, man. Send me your dual
30:43showman." And so, I I sent it to him.
30:46>> I got it back and it was nuts. He was
30:48just the most amazing guy with the
30:51coolest stories. And uh man, I like
30:55watching him do my super reverb while he
30:57was just sort of very nonchalantly just
30:59talking about things this and that.
31:01Okay, this that or I try it now and then
31:04it was crazy.
31:05>> And the other thing too is like you know
31:07I would play a bit and he would kind of
31:08like listen then he'd go upstairs and
31:12he'd come back and then he'd build
31:13something
31:14>> like he listened to how I was playing or
31:16what I was going for
31:18>> and then he tailored it around that. and
31:20uh he was a special guy.
31:22>> Well, I'm wondering if we can uh
31:24transition into another tune. We've got
31:27>> got a couple more to to maybe cover what
31:29you feeling.
31:30>> Yeah, let's try this Morning Star riff,
31:31you know.
31:32>> Oh, my favorite. One of my favorite.
31:34Yeah.
31:34>> Thanks, my friend, man. [music]
31:46[music]
31:57>> [music]
32:02>> morning star from [music] my sleep.
32:08Call [music] me up from a dream so deep.
32:14>> [music]
32:14>> Let me take you into the sky now.
32:20[music]
32:20Watch the journey through your mind.
32:26[music]
32:30Heat. Heat.
32:33[music]
32:33[singing]
32:38[music]
32:40Won't you
32:43[music]
32:46stop
32:47me?
32:50[music]
32:56[music]
32:57Don't you care?
33:02>> I don't know.
33:03>> So good.
33:03>> Yeah. Broke a nail on that one. That was
33:05good. Well, I'm wondering on this guitar
33:07because we we have done a guitar change
33:09here.
33:10>> Tell me about maybe do you mind if I
33:13pick this one up just so we have both? I
33:15don't I don't want to
33:16>> touch another man's instrument without
33:18his permission.
33:19>> Cool.
33:19>> Um
33:21>> kind of talk me through what are the
33:23differences between these these two
33:25guitars or like kind of the the history
33:27the brief history of these two guitars.
33:29>> Yeah. So, you know, first and foremost,
33:33I'm really grateful to have these
33:34guitars, right? Like it's not an easy
33:37thing to be able to have a couple of 63
33:40Strats like and especially now they're
33:42so they're priced so ridiculously but
33:44>> and now with you playing in the
33:45prominance there is
33:46>> I don't I don't know if it has anything
33:47to do with me but I just you know I just
33:49really thankful to have them. They're
33:50special instruments. I've had them a
33:52long time. This guitar I've had
33:54seriously almost 30 years which is wild.
33:57Got it in 1998 and I was working with
33:59Jeff Healey at the time. I had saved up
34:02and uh sent it out and I played it and
34:05it was like done and it's been with me
34:08ever since. And um and I end up calling
34:11the guitar mother. This guitar came into
34:13my life about 16 or 17 years ago and a
34:1663 Strat. I remember playing it and I
34:18fell in love with it too. I was like,
34:19man, that's a special instrument. And I
34:21just didn't have the bread for it. And
34:23uh it went to somebody else.
34:2610 plus years later, my buddy Mike Lant,
34:29who hooked me up with these tube
34:30screamers, he goes, "Man, I just I just
34:32saw a 63 Strat for sale and it made me
34:34think of you and I told him, I'm not
34:37buying anything, you know, how am I
34:38going to buy that right now?"
34:40>> And he sent me some pictures and I said,
34:41"Holy that's the same guitar that
34:43got away."
34:44>> It just had come back. Somehow it came
34:46back around. And he found it. And so I
34:49sold a bunch of things and traded to to
34:51get it. And this is now known as Big
34:53Daddy.
34:54>> Yeah. So named after my dad
34:56>> and Seymour Duncan collaborated with you
34:59over the last, you know, about a
35:01[clears throat] year ago and then again
35:02more recently in the last few months,
35:03you've had signature pickups where
35:06they've deconstructed these two separate
35:08pickups. Is that correct?
35:10>> That's correct. Can you tell me a little
35:11bit about like that process of like did
35:13they I'm assuming they just took these
35:15guitars, they took measurements. They
35:17figured out what the composition of the,
35:19you know, wires and thickness and
35:21magnets and all that stuff and matched
35:23that one to one.
35:24>> Yeah, we were. So I, you know, I just
35:26have to say, you know, the Seymour
35:27Duncan team. I mean, they are.
35:28>> Shout out to Zack.
35:29>> Oh, man. Zack, what's up, my friend?
35:31>> St. Zach, the patron saint of pickups.
35:34>> I concur. Yeah. Yeah. Zack is Zach is
35:36amazing. and Mark Dorenzo who CEO there
35:39just absolutely like the best people. I
35:41just I love the team over there. And so,
35:44you know, we went over, we started with
35:45the Mother Strat. Mark Delorenzo
35:47approached me with the idea of doing the
35:49mother pickups. So, I went up to Santa
35:51Barbara and uh you know, they went under
35:54the hood, measuring everything, looking
35:56at the magnets, uh checking of course
35:58the windings, what everything looked
35:59like, like very very closely. Started
36:02coming up with prototypes. The whole
36:03process took about a year. It took a lot
36:05of time to get them right. We went
36:07through different iterations and then so
36:09we got them just right and they actually
36:10like I was blown away by how close they
36:13got to these
36:14>> and how they really honor like what
36:16these these are 1958 pickups what they
36:18sound like.
36:19>> Right.
36:19>> Then Mark invited me to the table again
36:22with Big Daddy and and we just did these
36:24just released them.
36:25>> Yeah.
36:26>> And these are like a lot hotter wound.
36:28Like they're it's a bigger sound. That
36:30guitar is like big sounding. Was this
36:32kind of closer to how that was with the
36:33older pickups or would you say that this
36:35is fundamentally a different sound than
36:36what this was?
36:37>> Yeah, this is fundamentally a different
36:38sound. This is always like a really had
36:40a lot of output,
36:42>> big sounding, darker but big and like
36:45>> very very uh a lot of authority.
36:47>> Yeah.
36:48>> This had a lot of air and chime and
36:50clarity and so I mean they both have
36:52those characteristics but you know each
36:55one occupies its own lane nicely.
36:57>> Yeah.
36:57>> Well, shout out to Seymour Duncan.
36:59Actually, Zack, Zach at Seymour Duncan
37:01gave me a set of the Big Daddy pickups,
37:04which we're actually going to be giving
37:05away as a part of this conversation that
37:08we're having. So, if people are
37:10interested in winning a free set of
37:13these pickups shipped right to your
37:15door.
37:15>> Wow. All they have to do is they have to
37:18follow Philillip on Instagram, follow
37:20Vertex, follow Seymour Duncan, tag a
37:23friend on any of the promo that we're
37:26doing for this video on Instagram, and
37:29that will automatically enter to you for
37:31a chance to win. We will choose the
37:32winner 3 weeks after the video goes
37:34live. Again, shipped right to your door
37:36and available whether you're domestic or
37:38international. So, there's no
37:40limitations. We will ship it right to
37:42you no matter where you live. So,
37:43>> that's awesome. really cool of Seymour
37:45Duncan to to offer that. So, we're we're
37:46stoked about that. Cool. I'm gonna I'll
37:48I'll I'll put it back in a safe place
37:50here and I'll I'll watch from afar.
37:53>> Come [laughter] on, man. [gasps]
37:54>> Come on. So,
37:57when we were when we were sort of
37:58breaking between the the last song, I
38:00was asking you a bit about the KR Mega
38:02Vibe and we were talking about Kevin
38:05Randall, the maker of the KR Mega Vibe.
38:08And and I mentioned to you that, you
38:10know, he was
38:12>> he was a really peculiar guy. He worked
38:14at Guitar Maniacs, this cool guitar
38:16store that's owned by Rick King up in
38:18Tacoma, Washington. He was like one of
38:20the repair guys there. And then he was
38:22like doing this Hendrickx thing like as
38:24his own like kind of like side project
38:26and he would meet with Randy Hansen and
38:29in you know the Hrix guru up in Seattle
38:32and he was I think my understanding is
38:34he was kind of like the ears you know
38:36like he was kind of the guy that was
38:38kind of going back and forth. Yeah. You
38:39know I think it needs to be a little bit
38:40like that. What is it about the KR Mega
38:42vibe that kind of just like you're one
38:45of the few people that have stuck with
38:47it? you know, everybody has has moved on
38:50to the contemporary stuff. And that's
38:51not to say that it isn't great, but what
38:53is it that you connected with?
38:55>> Well, I think, you know, I'm just used
38:56to it now. I'm used to how it sounds,
38:58and I've used it for such a long time
38:59that I I just [snorts] that's what I
39:02expect to hear when I step on the vibe
39:03sound. And that's not to say that the
39:05other vibes that I've tried aren't
39:07outstanding. They are, and they're super
39:09inspiring.
39:10>> Um, you know, it's again, every chef
39:12brings a little bit of their own
39:14>> Sure.
39:14>> you know, flavoract.
39:17exactly how I put it.
39:18>> And and like none of them are wrong.
39:20None. They're all great. And I think
39:21this is just what I'm used to. When I
39:23when I step on it, there's a certain
39:25kind of there's not too much. It's not
39:28like it doesn't overwhelm the sound. Um
39:32it's also then not too little where
39:34there's not enough of it. It just it's
39:35just right. Sure. There, you know,
39:37there's ones that have a stronger swell
39:39or wave and all that and that's fun.
39:40That's cool. This one's just it's just
39:43right.
39:43>> Now, do you have a a preference? There's
39:45a lot of discussion on the interwebs
39:48about placement on Univibe and we've
39:50already done this experiment a little
39:51bit talking about WS and tube screamers
39:53and fuzzes. Some people are a a vibe
39:58before fuzz. Uh there are some people
40:00that are vibe sort of after fuzz or even
40:02after distortion.
40:04>> Where do you usually find yourself
40:05landing on the the vibe placement?
40:09>> So I keep the vibe closest to the amp.
40:12>> Okay. So, it would be the last thing if
40:15we we've got this DL4 on the floor. It's
40:18not connected right now, but usually
40:19that would be the final thing
40:21>> before the amp, but this would come
40:23right the the Mega Vibe would come right
40:24before it.
40:25>> That's right.
40:25>> And then if you were to use the the
40:28Texas Ranger, the treble booster,
40:30>> where would that come in that lineage?
40:32>> Usually, it it lives closest to the
40:35guitar.
40:35>> And so, the treble booster would just be
40:37treble booster, fuzz, wah, fuzz,
40:39octavia, distortion, or overdrive.
40:42overdrive and then vibe then delay. Got
40:45it. Got it. So the vibe the the tendency
40:49that or the thing that people complain
40:51about is when they use it after drive
40:52and this in the way that you do that it
40:54can sound kind of phasy and bright. I
40:55don't get that at all from what you've
40:57got. I'm really kind of curious to see I
40:59mean like the settings here if we're
41:00looking down at this pedal it's like
41:02volume's maxed which is common on Univ
41:05cuz they almost like lose volume when
41:07you step on them.
41:08>> And then intensity is also maxed
41:10>> on this particular unit. this particular
41:12unit, but that could be a pot tolerance
41:13thing and then kind of speeds to taste.
41:15Obviously, that would be kind of
41:17commensurate with the song that you're
41:18using it on and stuff like that.
41:20Exactly.
41:20>> Can we kind of hear it in this context
41:21and then like kind of what it does with
41:23overdrives in front of it? Let's try
41:25this. [music]
41:34[music]
41:39[music]
41:44>> [music]
41:51[music]
41:53>> Heat. Heat.
41:57[music]
42:01[music]
42:02Heat.
42:15Heat.
42:31>> [music]
42:36[music]
42:38>> So, I mean that kind of like walks you
42:40through what that sounds like. It seems
42:41to work pretty well with the
42:43>> No, with the vibe.
42:44>> It It sounds like an old univibe. That's
42:48with the Diaz Ranger. I can also hit it
42:50with the fuzz, too, if you want to hear
42:51that. Yeah. See that? Heat
42:54[music]
43:04up
43:06[music]
43:10here.
43:16[music]
43:46So it works well with the buzz too that
43:48you know I think it's a cool sound. I
43:49enjoy it.
43:50>> I'm wondering if we can move into one of
43:53my all-time favorite songs is sort of
43:55one of the gold standards Mount Rushmore
43:59kind of clean Strat tones for me which
44:01is your song Alchemy also off Peace
44:03Machine right
44:04>> that's right. Yeah. Thanks.
44:05>> That's just like such a a great tone. It
44:08has a fair bit of of delay processing.
44:11Was that the DL4 on the record or did
44:13you use a real Echoplex?
44:15>> Yeah, I had an Echoplex EP3. Okay.
44:17>> Um, and I have a EP3 that I love.
44:19>> And you've kind of been one of the loyal
44:22users of the DL4 for a long time. Is it
44:25kind of just out of habit or do you find
44:28that even when you play more
44:29contemporary delays, there's just still
44:31something about this that feels like
44:32home?
44:33>> Yeah. I You know what? Just like the
44:34Mega Vibe, thanks for asking about it.
44:36Like the Mega Vibe, I'm just used to it.
44:37>> Yeah.
44:38>> So, that's what I kind of what I want to
44:39hear now, right? I play other delays.
44:41It's like, wow, that sounds amazing.
44:43>> Right.
44:44>> That mom was cooking.
44:45>> That's right. That's a free way to put
44:46it, man. That's it. Like that's I like
44:48that. I know. You know, it's consistent
44:50and it's
44:51>> Are there better delays? Maybe there
44:53are, but just I like what this does and
44:55it agrees with me. Right.
44:56>> So, Right.
44:57>> Yeah.
44:58>> Very cool. Well, uh yeah, let's queue it
45:00up. I want to hear a little alchemy.
45:02[music]
45:08[music]
45:16>> [music]
45:22[music]
45:26>> Heat. Heat.
45:29[music]
45:36>> [music]
45:45>> Heat.
45:47[music]
45:52Heat.
45:56[music]
46:05>> [music]
46:07[bell]
46:11[music]
46:16>> That's too much there.
46:17>> That's like the That's I'll save that
46:18for the Christmas record. [laughter]
46:22So that was DS [clears throat] fuzz into
46:25mega vibe delay into the amps.
46:28>> That's right. And I was using uh I think
46:32I had the square face on. I think I had
46:35it on for all of that. Yeah.
46:36>> Rolled back sound that kind of like
46:38glittery sound.
46:38>> So is the glass you think coming from
46:40the square face or is it coming from the
46:41Texas Ranger or is it sort of the
46:42amalgamation of the two?
46:44>> Yeah. So I'm not using them together. Uh
46:46just using the square face only. coming
46:48from all that's from the from the
46:49geranium sort of fuzz.
46:51>> Yeah. And and again like this was
46:55so the amp [music]
46:57then that's the square face
47:00and then roll it down.
47:05[music]
47:10>> That's the square face which is Yeah,
47:12it's a cool that's a cool thing. How do
47:13you deal with like a lot of people have
47:15struggles when they use any sort of like
47:17multi-re repeat delays with an amp
47:19that's got some grit to it. Have you
47:21kind of struggled with that or do you
47:22just kind of feel like you just sort of
47:24set the mix appropriately? I mean, it
47:25looks like if this mix is any
47:26indication, it's fairly far down on the
47:29green pedal.
47:30>> The way I usually like to set this, and
47:32this is like an old thing that I used to
47:34do with the EP3, but to try to get the
47:36right volume is I'll I'll sort of
47:40>> I'll sort of set it by playing this like
47:42exercise. So, we'll do like a
47:46[music]
47:52[music]
47:56>> and just try to have it be like
47:58answering back and then I know it's in
48:00the right
48:00>> almost like a the let's dance thing, you
48:02know, that you know that I never thought
48:04of that. You think the let's dance thing
48:06kind of has a rhythmic thing cuz I think
48:08it's only like one one downstroke and
48:10then it's cool
48:12Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. I
48:14never thought of that.
48:15>> Yeah.
48:15>> Yeah. So, I that's how I usually like to
48:17set a delay for or my echoplex is I'll
48:20set it for that speed for that kind of
48:22rhythm bump like bouncing back and forth
48:25>> and then it seems to sit just under uh
48:28what my level is.
48:29>> Got it. If it's too loud, then it steps
48:31on it.
48:32>> Sure. Well, I'm wondering, Philillip,
48:33for for our kind of completion today, if
48:38I can convince you to maybe play one
48:40more song for us from your catalog. And
48:42and and before we do that, I just want
48:44to thank you so much for spending all
48:46this time going through all of my crazy
48:48questions about gear and rehashing
48:51signal paths and orders and all that
48:54stuff. It it has been illuminating to
48:56say the least. And I'm sure for many
48:58people, although you've talked about
48:59this maybe in sort of isolation, I don't
49:02know if there's ever been such a
49:04comprehensive sort of gear run of some
49:07of this stuff and then kind of getting
49:08to hear it in in in the kind of like
49:10either song context or sort of hearing
49:13sort of your interpretation of where we
49:14might have heard things like with the W.
49:16I think it's so valuable when you
49:18connecting possible like fuzz and w
49:21usages, pre and post fuzz with w to
49:24songs that people might recognize.
49:26That's always such a an important thing
49:28for me as sort of a a student of this
49:30stuff to kind of like help connect some
49:32of those dots to history. So, thank you
49:34for that.
49:35>> Well, listen, you know, I the way I see
49:36it is that, you know, we're all
49:38students. I'm I don't want to speak for
49:39anybody else, but I'm a student of all
49:40of this. I'm a student, you know, I'm
49:42learning from you. I'm learning from
49:44you. I'm learning from you. Like, every
49:45time, you know, pick up an instrument,
49:46I'm learning every time we try
49:48something. So, I think it's just like I
49:50want to just stay open and stay hungry
49:51and and stay curious about all of it
49:53because it's this is like
49:55>> it's wonderful that, you know, it's not
49:57lost in me. I'm so thankful in my life
49:59that I get to make music and express the
50:02things that I feel inside and use these
50:04as colors like on a palette like
50:06different colors if you're a painter
50:07like just to have fun with. And that's
50:09what I mean. There's no rules. Like just
50:10it up, man. Just like whatever and
50:13not get too caught up in like it has to
50:15be one thing or the other. Like
50:17whatever. It's Wednesday. I feel totally
50:19different than I [laughter] did on
50:20Monday. And so, I'm going to try
50:21something different today. And so, to
50:23have the the real gift of being able to
50:25express myself through music, I'm
50:27thankful for. And to have uh, you know,
50:29the real gift of being able to join you
50:31on your platform and uh, for you to take
50:34the time to come up with such thoughtful
50:35questions. I really appreciate it.
50:37>> Honored. Honor. Thank you. It's my
50:38honor. Thank you so much, man.
50:42[music]
50:52>> [music]
50:54>> Heat. Heat.
51:13>> [music]
51:19>> Heat
51:21up here.
51:23[music]
51:29Heat
51:34[music]
51:45[screaming]
51:51up here.
52:01>> [music]
52:06>> Heat. Heat.
52:17Heat.
52:30Heat. [music]
52:38Heat. Heat.

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