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Period at Work Ep 10 — Transcript

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0:19Hello and welcome back to the talk no
0:21one talks about.
0:23This is the very last episode for this
0:25season where we've discussed menstrual
0:28health and dignity, shame, sex,
0:31pleasure,
0:33Mhm.
0:34hygiene, sanitary products, religion,
0:38culture, and everything that influences
0:42how we perceive and interact with
0:43menstruation.
0:46Now, I'm here for the very last episode
0:50of the season. And as you know, or as
0:53you've seen,
0:54I've not done this alone. I have two
0:56very exciting guests here with me.
0:59I want to move the camera out to them so
1:01they talk about themselves. Tell me your
1:03name and what you do. Before that, we're
1:06discussing period equity. Today, we're
1:10talking what would a totally perfect
1:14period open society look like? So, yeah.
1:17Throw in the questions in now for my
1:19guests. Please introduce yourself and
1:21tell us what you do.
1:23>> Okay. Um I didn't see well done say it's
1:26been really bloody.
1:29>> Yeah. Blood for blood.
1:32We've been going.
1:33>> That's that's really cool. I I really um
1:35like this topic. My name is Jemima.
1:37>> Yes.
1:37>> Jemima Yondo. I am a media and
1:39communications person.
1:39>> Oh, please.
1:41I am a media and communications person.
1:44Um one of the things that
1:46I love about this conversation is I I
1:49say I say as a as a communications
1:50person, it is putting light to truly the
1:53talk that no one talks about. It's very
1:56very important. So,
1:57I'm really happy to be here.
1:59>> Oh, thank you for gracing us with your
2:01very honorary honorable presence.
2:03>> You're welcome.
2:04>> Okay, Eunice, tell us.
2:06>> Okay, thank you so much.
2:07>> Another celebrity, by the way.
2:10>> Okay, so hi. My name is Eunice Thompson,
2:13pronouns are she/her.
2:14I'm a lawyer, I'm a learner, I'm a
2:16community organizer, and I'm a gender
2:19advocate
2:20for women.
2:21>> So, people also call you Eunice. I've
2:24learned now.
2:25People also call her Panini baby. I do.
2:28>> Panini baby, yes.
2:29>> I call her Panini Esquire. I quite love
2:31that.
2:32>> Oh, that's a nice one.
2:35>> So, let's let's get rolling. What would
2:38a truly period positive world look like
2:41for you?
2:42>> Um, so I'm going to start with this
2:43story.
2:45The first time I wrote JAM, I think I
2:47was uh
2:4913 years old, at least 12 going to 13
2:52years old. And I while I was in the
2:54hall, it was very, very difficult for
2:56me. I felt so sick, very ill. Never had
2:59my period before, by the way.
3:00And I kept feeling nauseous, and I kept
3:02feeling severe pain in my pelvis area,
3:04and I just wondering what's going on.
3:06So, I had to like lay down my head and
3:08sleep for a bit, and by the time I woke
3:09up, like the entire JAM was done.
3:12>> So, you didn't write it at all?
3:13>> I did, right? When my results came out,
3:16they were very it was 180 something. And
3:19this is me with an elder sister who was
3:21having 260 something at the time. So,
3:23you can imagine the kind of pressure
3:25that was.
3:26But then, when my dad and every other
3:27person was asking me, "Why didn't you
3:29finish?" or "Why did you get this
3:30score?" I'm sorry, when you are a graced
3:33child, and who is always passing exams,
3:35everybody was surprised why didn't you
3:36pass this.
3:38I couldn't tell them I was having
3:39period.
3:40I was actually feeling very ashamed to
3:42say that I was on my period during the
3:44exam, and that's why I couldn't
3:46>> And that it affected you so much.
3:48>> me that I couldn't write the exam,
3:49because I was the first time I was ever
3:50experiencing that kind of severe
3:51discomfort.
3:53So, the first thing I would say that for
3:54a truly equitable world when it comes to
3:57period and period conversation, stop
3:58those
4:00so fresh, so fresh adverts. Please. Let
4:02us women who are on their period are not
4:04jumping excitedly. Let us be very
4:07realistic with the conversations that we
4:08are having about periods. Let us stop
4:11saying when when we started learning
4:12about periods in when we were in
4:14secondary school, they separated the
4:15boys from the girls. And I am a very My
4:17attention span is not so great. So, I
4:20actually did not really learn about
4:21periods in school because of how the
4:23conversations were going. Why don't boys
4:25know about periods like girls do?
4:27Because it is a human experience. Boys
4:30do not have to bleed for them to know
4:32what periods are about.
4:33>> Yeah. So, in society
4:34>> Exactly. So, we should have honest
4:36conversations and break away from period
4:39shame and think that it's a gendered
4:40issue. One of the things I did when I
4:42was in university, um when I started
4:45living alone, was that I used to put the
4:47pad on top the dining table. Yes,
4:49everybody should be able to experience
4:50it with me.
4:51>> Yeah.
4:51>> Yes, because People used to hide pads.
4:53They used to call it various names. They
4:55don't even used to call period period.
4:57They'll be saying things like, "I'm on."
4:59>> Right.
4:59>> Okay. My monthly flow.
5:01>> Um
5:02um there's something
5:04Oh God, there's this thing something
5:05something has come. The woman has
5:07>> Yes. The woman in red.
5:08>> The woman in red.
5:10>> My goodness. My monthly visitor. Okay,
5:12I'll be back in a
5:13>> visitor.
5:14>> Please. And you think
5:15>> Oh, we've been through We've been
5:16through
5:17>> that phases. Exactly. All of these
5:19conversations All of these What's the
5:20What's the What's the word?
5:22Um the names that we used to mask
5:24periods. They contribute to the shame
5:26that we We experience when having
5:28conversations about periods. And I think
5:29that we also need to drop those as well.
5:31>> I love that she touched on the fact that
5:34we need to have conversation more
5:35conversations around it and not just the
5:37fact that we're having these
5:38conversations, but let it be like the
5:41everyday conversations that we have.
5:43Like we're talking about maybe period
5:45should be something that people talk
5:46about every single time. you meet. Same
5:48way you can talk about Lagos traffic,
5:49same way you can talk about writers and
5:51same way you can talk about anything
5:52like it should be something that people
5:53feel comfortable. Girls can speak at
5:56about it at home and in school. I
5:58remember and even drawing from like your
6:00example of when you were in school, I
6:02remember the very first advert I saw. I
6:04think we we had an Always advert, right?
6:06Always Always had an advert where young
6:08girls in school would be so excited and
6:10be jumping about pad.
6:12I think that was the only period
6:14positive like advert I have seen on
6:16media when we were younger.
6:18>> I took it in good faith. I liked it. It
6:21made me not be so gloomy
6:23>> every time about pads, right? And about
6:25periods, yeah.
6:26>> And I felt so strange like those girls
6:27are dancing, why am I not dancing? Like
6:30I never
6:31I don't dance.
6:33>> Yeah.
6:34>> So I think that that's the beauty of
6:36having like a balance of stories, right?
6:38>> Right. Right.
6:39>> Every all these stories exist. Like I've
6:41had a guest on this podcast on this
6:44season of this podcast who was so period
6:46positive.
6:47>> Can we watch that?
6:47>> Oh my god. I've had a lot of guests, you
6:49should watch all of them. I had this
6:51guest who was so period positive. She
6:53gets excited on her period. She's like,
6:55"Mhm, my godly face is here." And I was
6:58like, "Okay." And everybody else was
7:00like, "Okay, we need to study into
7:02that."
7:03>> I'm telling you.
7:03>> So like it gave me perspective on the
7:05people who are so jumpy. I am jumpy
7:07though on the last day because like,
7:09"Oh, this is done. I'm excited. I'm
7:11dancing. I'm happy because now I don't
7:12have to deal with this anymore, right?"
7:14Yeah. But like it it was so it's
7:17sometimes we are so clouded with our own
7:19personal experiences we forget that
7:21everybody experiences stuff differently.
7:24>> Okay, so I think that for us to have a
7:27truly period positive world, just like
7:29we've been having a conversation the
7:30entire time,
7:32um it's also for us to change the
7:33societal attitudes around how we have
7:35these conversations
7:37and um
7:38the way we carry ourselves into spaces,
7:40particularly at offices or in
7:42workplaces, having access to resources
7:45and information that can help um women
7:48and other people who menstruate.
7:50>> Thank you very much, um Eunice, for
7:52bringing that out because a lot of times
7:54I find that or we find, right, when we
7:57now start unlearning and learning,
7:59right, during this process we now find
8:00that oh, even outside of women, right,
8:03you mentioned other people who period,
8:05yeah.
8:06>> yeah.
8:06>> Yeah, like I like there are 40
8:09variations of over 40 variations of
8:11intersex people have as I've come to
8:13learn now
8:14>> Wow.
8:14>> on the podcast. Yeah, you should watch
8:16You should watch our episodes. They're
8:17so engaging.
8:19And educative and informative.
8:21>> Yeah.
8:22>> Yeah, I didn't know that either.
8:23>> Yeah, there are non-binary people who
8:25have period experiences. There are trans
8:27men who have period experiences. So,
8:29when we keep having these conversations
8:32and we frame them, we say, "Oh, women
8:33and girls, women and girls." We put
8:35other people outside of that. We are
8:37scared of this.
8:38>> So, like if a truly period positive
8:40world, right, would be um a world where
8:43we start with our languages and we're
8:45more open to
8:46>> That's a very good point.
8:47>> accepting, yeah, and creating safe
8:48spaces for everyone who experiences
8:50periods.
8:50>> Wow.
8:51That's what That's a great way to put
8:53that.
8:55>> So, how would you say uh given all of
8:58this, how would you say that we can move
9:00from um
9:01hygiene-centered
9:03um conversations regarding periods to
9:05dignity-centered conversations?
9:07>> Very, very important. I think that First
9:09of all, I need to talk about how that
9:11Cardi B tweet where she had talking
9:13about when she menstruates, she doesn't
9:15smell this, that. Those kind of things.
9:19>> Have you seen that?
9:19>> Body shaming.
9:20>> Yeah.
9:21>> Yeah, I saw that.
9:21>> And so, here's the thing, right? Here's
9:24the thing, right? I love Cardi.
9:26>> Yeah.
9:26>> And
9:27I'm sorry, the feminists came for her.
9:30But, here's the thing. Here's the thing.
9:32Really, you know that we have discussed
9:35here that people will have diverse
9:37experiences for menstruation.
9:39And when we talk about oh, period
9:43inclusion, when we tell people like that
9:45to say oh, shut up, we're not talking
9:46about you, then are we really having all
9:48the conversations? Are we really
9:49creating the space for everyone?
9:51>> I just have to interrupt there and say
9:52that that was actually not how the
9:53conversation went on.
9:54>> Okay.
9:55>> it be in attempt to shame another woman
9:58was talking about how neat she was
10:00during her period. I want us to
10:02recognize that it is blood. Blood is
10:04smelling.
10:05>> Was she?
10:05>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. She made a tweet
10:06saying that during her period
10:08>> She talked about No, she talked about
10:10her relationship with her body. She said
10:12she had Wait, hang on. She said she had
10:14tiny feet. Like she had she had tiny
10:17feet. She keeps her coochie Yeah, she
10:19keeps her I have tiny feet, too.
10:22No shade to people who don't. I want big
10:24feet. I want to be big. As a matter of
10:25fact, I'm just sadly the tiniest person
10:28you will meet.
10:29That's beside the point. She talked
10:30about that. She talked about how she
10:33keeps her coochie clean and all of that.
10:35So, I'm saying, right, there will always
10:37be people like that, right? In the same
10:39way that there will always be extra
10:41period positive people.
10:42>> And I just have to interrupt again to
10:44say that I have clearly stated that her
10:46period does not smell. That's where I'm
10:48coming from. If we're going to be having
10:50conversations on hygiene when it comes
10:53to period or smell, because she tried to
10:55portray herself as a very feminine very
10:57neat person.
10:58>> Mhm.
10:58>> is not a bad thing. But to make it seem
11:00like those who have periods that smell
11:02are doing something wrong is actually
11:03quite a little of an issue. Even though
11:05there are women who menstruate in areas
11:07where there are no water.
11:08>> Mhm.
11:08>> Now, it is not your problem. It is the
11:09government's problem to not provide
11:11water in your various environments. And
11:13I think that that is a very important
11:15conversation that we should be having.
11:16So, people experience a
11:18>> Oh, we've had those conversations on the
11:20other episodes.
11:22>> But I just want to say that people
11:23experience um period and they are so
11:27ashamed. And they're like oh, I put it
11:29in the smell. Are you My sister in
11:31Christ, it's blood.
11:33If you go to abattoir, it does not smell
11:34like roses.
11:35>> There's a reason.
11:36>> So, yes, I get it.
11:37>> Yeah, and and you should also consider
11:39that the reason for the backlash is
11:40because that's a very common response.
11:43Like that's the majority of what a lot
11:44of people would say, like try to present
11:47um periods like oh, I'm I'm
11:50hygiene conscious, I'm neat. Even the
11:51communication we get around this, even
11:53when we're in school, the way they
11:55taught it was always that oh, you should
11:57be clean, you should wash you should
11:58wash your this thing, you should not
11:59wear more than two pads a day. Like it
12:01was always taught in the context of
12:02hygiene, right? Meanwhile, like she's
12:04saying that's not always the case for a
12:06lot of people.
12:07>> Yeah.
12:07>> Um
12:08>> So, how can we discuss hygiene and
12:09dignity? Because hear me out. Please
12:11hear me out. We've had this conversation
12:14and again, I've said I've had like nine
12:16other conversations on periods, right?
12:18And as someone who actively sees her
12:20period, right? I also have my own
12:22personal experiences. And like it or
12:24not,
12:27Oh God, the olfactory woman comes in
12:29again.
12:32There are people who have like
12:34relationships with smell.
12:35>> Yeah.
12:36>> If you remember,
12:38um say one eye go, I was losing my [ __ ]
12:41in this studio because I could smell
12:42period blood.
12:43>> Mhm.
12:43>> Right? You remember?
12:45>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:45>> And again, I like to bring personal
12:47stories. Again, because of the
12:48relationship that I have with smell. And
12:50no, it's not coming from a bad place
12:52where I'm like oh, that's so bad or
12:54whatever. I'm just very sensitive. I can
12:56hear I I I can stay here and I'm cooking
12:59and I I know when my rice is done
13:02>> Yeah.
13:02>> from the smell, right? I know when my
13:04water is boiling. I can smell boiling
13:06water. It doesn't have flavor or
13:07anything. It's just I have that
13:09relationship with smell and it's not
13:11just in a good way or in a bad way, it's
13:14just in a way that exists.
13:15>> Yeah.
13:16>> Right? And
13:17>> So, are you saying that when you when
13:19like you're considering what's in the
13:20context of Cardi B now, when you speak
13:22about it, like it's coming from your own
13:24personal experience, like you're not
13:25necessarily talking about it in a way to
13:27shame all that.
13:29>> So now, that's the part that I did not
13:31get before. So when I saw the backlash,
13:32I was like, "Okay, we are trying to have
13:35all the conversations." Again, all the
13:37conversations will not be comfortable
13:38for everyone to hear, right? Especially
13:40if we have, again, there's a literacy
13:43there's a literacy gap.
13:44Yes, everybody will not know as much as
13:46I know. I will not know as much as
13:47everyone knows, right? So yeah, there
13:49are conversations that will be exciting
13:51for me
13:52or for people who do not know as much as
13:54I know. And I can't look at people like
13:56that and say, "Oh, don't have those
13:57conversations because we're having this
13:58conversation at the top." Do you
13:59understand where I'm coming from? My
14:01point was um how I felt, again, I like
14:03to exclude myself from social media
14:05drugs sometimes. And um even and this is
14:09with a lot of things, homophobia,
14:10transphobia, and when these things come
14:12up, I just
14:13I'm tired, right? If if if if you've
14:15been active on like the social media
14:17space, you know that you you you you you
14:20fight, you talk, you drag people, and
14:24then at some point you're just tired.
14:26You are just tired. It's kind of like a
14:28burnout. And then when you come online
14:31and you see these things, you don't even
14:32know where to begin. You're like,
14:33"Okay." But then, you see people who are
14:36at the stage where they are not tired.
14:39They are they are in their act yeah,
14:41they're out there. So they're fighting
14:42and they're like, "Oh, thank God, oh."
14:44Thank God because I'm wait I'm too busy
14:46I'm too exhausted in my personal life
14:48now. I don't have energy to fight. Do
14:50you understand? So when that happens,
14:52I'm not always going back to see, "Oh,
14:54what was the egg?"
14:56I didn't know that it was to shame
14:57someone else, right? I saw the tweet, I
14:59was like, "Oh, small feet,
15:01coochie clean, um this and that." And
15:04then everyone's like, "Oh." Talking
15:07small feet on Oh, yes, there was there
15:09was this discourse. Why are we bringing
15:10Cardi here? There was this discourse
15:12there was this discourse about Oh, the
15:14things that she pointed are things that
15:15the patriarchy uses to feminize women or
15:17to shame women who don't have those
15:18features. And I get but there are actual
15:21women who exist with those features. And
15:24the thing about being a woman or being a
15:25person is you want to pick the things
15:28that you have that you want to feel good
15:30about. It's not in a way or sometimes,
15:33of course, there are there are very
15:34silly people out there who do that in a
15:36way to shame other people, but I we can
15:38have the conversation where it's like,
15:39"Oh, that's your thing." And that's good
15:40for you. But that's not the reality of
15:42everyone. And I'm sure that if we sit
15:44back and actually sit these people down,
15:46they will say, "Oh, yeah, my reality is
15:48different from everyone else's."
15:50>> That's so true.
15:51>> So, um I think that
15:53what I wanted to get out of this
15:55conversation, especially with this
15:56question, is how we can do it. It's how
15:59we can carry hygiene
16:02and dignity together. Because we cannot
16:04entirely
16:06discard the hygiene conversation. And
16:08here's why, because if we practice
16:11periods or like period experiences
16:13without the hygiene, it also have
16:14damaging effect on you. Like a lot of
16:17people do not know that medically or
16:19hygienically or let let me not say
16:21hygiene, medically, you're not supposed
16:22to wear your pad for more than 4 hours
16:24because the dead blood cells now trick
16:27up off stairs. Now, if we discard the
16:29entire period hygiene conversation and
16:31say, "Mhm."
16:32Throw it all in the trash, we're now
16:34misinforming people. So, how do we do
16:36that? How do we say, "Mhm, we're not
16:39saying
16:40don't look out for this.
16:42Look out for this, but like carry
16:44yourself and embrace yourself. Like
16:45there's nothing wrong with you. This And
16:47even if you've not been someone who has
16:49experienced period like in this light,
16:52this is how you can now explain. Don't
16:53shame yourself for it, right? It's a
16:55learning and we are all Life is a
16:57learning curve, right? How do we do
16:58that?
16:59>> Um I think that like like I said
17:01earlier,
17:02see, there's something about the
17:03language that is a heavy point of call
17:06in how we talk about periods.
17:07>> I always say this. It's not just
17:09periods, it's with everything.
17:11>> Yeah, like language and it's such an
17:12important communication. That's why I
17:14really love my job, by the way. It
17:15intersects a lot of things.
17:16Communications and language is very
17:18important in how we frame the narratives
17:19that concern a lot of things. And the is
17:22noun how can we experience period with
17:25dignity? When women get stained outside
17:28is like you don't know your period is
17:29coming.
17:33I I I I
17:34recently traveled um with my colleague
17:36who was having period on on the flight,
17:39very very long ass flight. And I noticed
17:42that
17:43all the women there who noticed that she
17:45was
17:46doing period related issues. If you see
17:48the way they they ignored
17:51>> all the women
17:52>> They didn't take it They didn't take it.
17:53They didn't make it seem like it was a
17:53special scenario. What do you need? How
17:56can I help you with this? And it was
17:57just that, right? And it just allowed
17:59other women allowed I felt like it was a
18:02place where I I could have even asked a
18:03period related question and 70,000
18:05answers could have come out of that.
18:07Because of how those women related to it
18:10were very open about the conversation.
18:13The the shame of period is such a heavy
18:15weight.
18:16>> It is. There are various buckets of
18:18shame that we use, like the hygiene part
18:20of it. How do you discuss with young
18:22people? I think it's how you we explain
18:24to them. What we tell them periods are
18:26about, right?
18:27>> And how we also let
18:30boys as well. Because one of the things
18:32I've noticed is that especially with men
18:35or with a version of men,
18:36they do not really know much about
18:39periods. Aside trans men who by the
18:41virtue of their experience are able to
18:43have this
18:44>> experience behind them.
18:45>> Yeah, leave the experiences. They would
18:47not also be able to There's no way
18:49they're contributing to the
18:50conversation. That's why I'm really keen
18:51on the trans men episode of the podcast.
18:54Because it is a huge angle that we have
18:55not seen it from. So, I think that
18:57language is very important in how we
18:59give dignity back to periods. I'm on.
19:03You're on your period there.
19:04>> Yeah.
19:04>> And you say it's an okay thing.
19:05>> What what was that?
19:07>> Is it fantastic?
19:08>> No.
19:08>> The red lady is here. I'm on my flow,
19:11please. Auntie from 1970s, stop it.
19:14Yeah.
19:15Has anyone watched
19:19NO, NO, THE LANGUAGE of the
19:22Has anyone watched Tony Red yet?
19:24>> No.
19:24>> Tony Red?
19:24>> Tony Red, yeah.
19:27>> Oh, I love it.
19:28>> It's a Disney movie. Have you watched
19:29Tony Red?
19:30>> You see the storytelling, you see the
19:31animation. So, why I brought it in is
19:33because we need more stories like that.
19:36>> Telling stories
19:37>> I need more old stories.
19:38>> It had terrible backlash.
19:40>> Mhm.
19:40>> Yes. It was a fantastic adolescent movie
19:42to help people learn about periods and
19:44the various things that can happen when
19:45they experience their periods. Backlash.
19:48>> That's period shame.
19:49>> So, backlash is always going to come.
19:52Backlash always always always come.
19:54>> We can only embrace it.
19:56>> We can only embrace it.
19:57>> Because are they going to come to your
19:58house to beat you?
20:02>> So, talking about like dignity, right? I
20:05think that if we have more stories told
20:07in a way that is not shameful,
20:11that can help a lot of young people like
20:13growing up witnessing that and even us
20:15like as as when people who menstruate,
20:18if we're having a conversations like um
20:21Cardi B for example. I don't know why I
20:22keep going back to her, but I'm saying
20:23like she has a huge platform, right? It
20:26brought a lot of backlash because there
20:28are a lot of young girls who look up to
20:29her. There are a lot of people who
20:30listen to her, right?
20:31>> But people also forget where she's
20:33coming from.
20:33>> Yeah, people also forget, but I'm saying
20:35that if you we
20:38if you have that kind of platform as a
20:39woman and you have this conversations in
20:40a way that moves it in a more dignified
20:42way rather than a shady
20:44way,
20:44that way you have a larger impact on
20:46other people.
20:47>> Exactly. So, here's the thing, right?
20:49Let's bring her again because like it or
20:51not, she's sorry. She's one of the most
20:52practical people. I don't think she'll
20:54be upset by this. That's how practical
20:56she is. She says stuff and then people
20:58come for her and she deletes. She's
21:00probably the celebrity that deletes with
21:02the most deleted tweets, right? So, I'm
21:05saying sometimes we forget that people
21:07are coming from somewhere. She does not
21:09have the literacy level that you have,
21:11right? She does not have the advocacy
21:13level that you have, right? So, she is
21:15experiencing life and navigating and
21:17communicating with people in the way
21:19that she can, in the way that she feels
21:21is great. Now, when people react to her,
21:24she learns and then she goes or
21:26sometimes she's even ashamed, she goes
21:27and she deletes it or she comes back.
21:29And because she's she's again, that's a
21:30very ratchet [ __ ] I love her, I'm
21:32ratchet, too.
21:34So, that's a very Do you understand? I'm
21:36saying this and I'm saying this to point
21:38out how she communicates or how she puts
21:40her thoughts across cuz sometimes she's
21:41upset. Sometimes people come for her
21:43kids and she reacts. She goes learns.
21:46She just She's just insane and I love
21:49her for it. Sometimes I see her deleting
21:51stuff and I was like, "Girl, you should
21:52have stood by it. People should know."
21:55And when people react to her, I give her
21:56the grace that Cardi Cardi did not have
21:59the educational experience that a lot of
22:01In short, after fame, she started to
22:03want to grow. She started to go to
22:04school, study, do law and all of that.
22:07And we need to learn that or we need to
22:09look at people and see, "Oh, this is
22:11where you're coming from."
22:13And given where you're coming from, I
22:15should not attack you the way I would
22:17attack someone like me, right? Someone
22:19who has spent years being conscious of
22:22like the patriarchal system, do you
22:24understand? So, when I see these
22:25conversations, that's my That's my
22:28reaction. It's like,
22:30I I mean, when we do this, what are we
22:32really saying? We're just putting a
22:33divide and in a way that if people now
22:36naturally do not want to learn, their
22:37reaction is to be defensive.
22:40>> I just want to say that someone who does
22:43um work a lot of work in digital space,
22:46not just communication, digital space,
22:47digital rights, one of the things that I
22:49would categorically say is that the
22:51internet is very dangerous and is an
22:53outlet for most people, right? So, while
22:56you might have I don't contribute to
22:57internet
22:58conversations anymore because social
23:00media conversations because I like I was
23:02like what I'm feeding into and it's very
23:04important for us to to to learn about
23:06that, right? So, the internet does not
23:08is not a space where people are at the
23:10back here thinking. Everybody is driving
23:11engagements. So, when people
23:14>> Especially now with Elon's money.
23:16>> everybody is just engagement and their
23:18family engagements.
23:20>> different like
23:21>> This
23:22whole part of the internet that is a
23:24psychological
23:26weapon.
23:27And we need to recognize that. People
23:29will not
23:30>> give grace because of them.
23:31>> Like you hold that. I'm telling you.
23:33>> Oh yeah, of course. Of course. I I like
23:35to tell people when I have like learning
23:37conversations like this. It's like, oh,
23:39we are having these conversations. There
23:40are millions of people who are not.
23:42>> Right.
23:43>> And what I'm saying is as we are having,
23:46me I've I've learned a lot from you. And
23:49I like that communication is like give
23:51and take.
23:51>> Truly, yeah.
23:52>> Do you understand? Because like it or
23:54not, like I sit back sometimes and I'm
23:56like,
23:58I might say that I've I've always have
24:00like consciousness and being like a
24:02radical person most of the time. But I
24:04also know that there were times where I
24:06did not know jack about certain things.
24:09And I was probably loud and wrong, too.
24:12>> Because
24:13>> Because when you are a loud person, you
24:14are loud. You don't even know that you
24:16are wrong yet.
24:17>> Yeah, truly.
24:18>> But like the grace is sitting back with
24:19yourself and be like, hmm, I got that
24:22wrong.
24:22>> Yeah, I could have done that.
24:23>> And I I and I also think that
24:25particularly it's a reflection of how we
24:28like to treat other people. Because if
24:30you're someone who likes to look at
24:32other humans with dignity
24:34and um
24:36respect for their selves and their
24:39experiences and their journeys and their
24:40lives, you don't participate in
24:42anything,
24:44right, that would be harmful
24:46>> to others.
24:47>> Yeah, to them. So, then
24:49uh after most of the time you start to
24:51stepping back cuz I'm like, okay, maybe
24:53let me sit back first with my own
24:56>> opinion.
24:57>> Yeah, yes, with my own experience.
24:58>> Of course, it's a lot being a woman in
25:01Nigeria, a Nigerian woman, do you
25:02understand?
25:03>> And all of that, too. But then, there
25:05are times when I've learned to take the
25:06backseat.
25:07>> Right?
25:07>> I've learned to just sit back and listen
25:09to people who are more minorities than
25:12myself.
25:13>> Yeah.
25:13>> Right? Because we're not we're not at
25:16the end of the
25:18Yeah. Mhm.
25:22So, I think my next question is this,
25:24>> Mhm.
25:24>> why is menstrual dignity a feminist
25:26issue?
25:27>> Mhm.
25:27>> Mhm.
25:28>> Mhm.
25:28>> Mhm.
25:29>> Mhm.
25:30>> So,
25:31I would I would I would Do you want to
25:33start?
25:34Well, I just want to say,
25:36um,
25:37as a feminist,
25:39yes. I I I just really I told somebody I
25:41was talking to somebody in Ikeja
25:43>> Mhm.
25:43>> and the guy said, "Are you a feminist?"
25:44And I'm like, "Yes."
25:45>> Why are you supposed to be a feminist in
25:47Nigeria in the first
25:48>> I'm like, "Well, you're looking at a
25:49unicorn." A Nigerian feminist.
25:52So, as a feminist, one of the things
25:54that we fight for is, um, equality.
25:57>> Mhm.
25:57>> There's a lot of things that period has
25:58held us back from that we really know.
26:00>> Yeah.
26:00>> You know that when it comes to hiring,
26:02is it consideration of,
26:04"When you're on your period now, you
26:06will now be tired.
26:07>> Mhm.
26:07>> You will now be sick. You say you don't
26:08want to work."
26:09>> It It It makes it easier
26:10>> to hire men.
26:11>> Yeah.
26:12>> That's one thing.
26:13>> Especially
26:13>> in a lot of fields.
26:15>> Yes.
26:15>> They don't even consider women at all.
26:17>> They don't even hear you when you And
26:19then when you when you you maybe I don't
26:21say react, but when you engage in
26:22certain conversations and have a certain
26:25>> Yeah.
26:25>> or that day, you're just literally just
26:27not having it.
26:28>> Mhm.
26:28>> Are you on your period?
26:29>> Mhm.
26:30>> It's the day. And I think that that's
26:32one of the reason where That's where
26:33feminism comes in.
26:34>> Mhm.
26:34>> Right? In the fight for equal access,
26:37especially to resources and to, um,
26:40policies that recognize things that
26:41affect women. Periods are very important
26:43to have. One of the fantastic things
26:45about where I work, TechHer,
26:47is that we have a period policy.
26:49Yes, we have a
26:51>> I love that.
26:51>> two-to-one day period policy where if on
26:53your first day of your period,
26:54recognizing how heavy and exhausting the
26:57experience is, you could take one day,
26:59just work from home if you really must
27:02work. And I think that's what that is a
27:05step. If I did not have a feminist boss
27:08who recognizes that period is an
27:10important thing that women go through,
27:11we would not have had a policy that
27:12recognizes this this experience for
27:14women. We have pads in all the restrooms
27:17in our organization. This is literally a
27:20component of our target trees, right?
27:23And I think that this is a This is a
27:26conversation that more feminists should
27:27have when they're in power. What do you
27:29do to influence the conversations, the
27:32things that we are speaking about beyond
27:33speaking? Having policies that reflect
27:36the experiences of women aside maternity
27:38leave, what else can you do to help
27:40people who menstruate?
27:41If the boss in the organizations you
27:45work at is not feminist or recognizing
27:48feminist experiences, because every
27:50>> You will suffer, right?
27:51>> You Yes, other people will get to suffer
27:53from that experience. And if feminists
27:56are pushing for equal access to
27:58resources for women, are pushing for
28:00women to be employed in various sectors,
28:02it's also important for them to
28:04understand and recognize that
28:07like periods affect us in important
28:10ways. While there are other people who
28:11menstruate and might not bleed, I'm very
28:13sure they go through the the hormonal
28:14process of
28:15period too.
28:18And if they have to go through that, we
28:20need to be able to understand that these
28:22hormones, they are not things that
28:25weaken us or fail us, but they are part
28:27of the experience that builds us to be
28:29better people and experience life
28:32without discomfort. Because most I die
28:35from pelvic pain before we sign that
28:37contract. I love the tool. Is it really
28:39necessary?
28:42>> So,
28:43something you just said reminded me in
28:45one one of the episodes where we learned
28:47where I learned that um
28:49amongst those inter- variations of
28:51intersex people, there are people who do
28:52not have the necessarily have like a a
28:56a formed
28:58vagina or vulva and they do see their
29:01periods well externally. And then the
29:03way that sanitary products are designed,
29:06they're designed solely for vaginas.
29:08>> of vagina.
29:09>> Exactly. This is why periods are
29:11feminist issues.
29:11>> And this yes, and this was a doctor
29:13having this conversation. And this
29:15doctor was like, "Oh, you have no idea."
29:17And she was a Muslim doctor.
29:19A cis-het Muslim doctor. And she was
29:21like, "You have no idea how many times
29:22people come into my office and at first
29:24they feel like, "Oh, I'm going to have
29:26this kind of reaction." So they don't
29:27open up. When I make them feel safe
29:29enough, they tell me their experience.
29:30And these are people that would
29:32absolutely
29:33never have period conversations outside
29:35because of how people would react to
29:36them.
29:37>> True.
29:38My own response to that question would
29:40be, why shouldn't it be a be a feminist
29:42issue?
29:43I mean, who else is going to speak on
29:45talk about speak on it? Who is going to
29:47speak on period conversations if not
29:49feminists, right?
29:50Um feminists are at the forefront of
29:52dismantling the patriarchy. So and the
29:55patriarchy itself upholds period shame.
29:58You know, upholds all of the things that
30:00makes it difficult for people to have
30:01these conversations. So we should
30:03actually be at the forefront of that
30:05conversations. We should be the ones
30:06pushing for
30:08change, pushing for the right actions
30:11that should be taken particularly by our
30:13leaders and our government and people
30:15who are in positions of power.
30:16>> Surely. So it is a feminist issue
30:18because there's literally no one else to
30:20talk about it.
30:21>> I like I like that conclusion. It's a
30:22feminist issue.
30:23>> If we don't speak on it, who is going to
30:24>> Nobody else is going to
30:26>> I also I also like to approach things
30:28a lot in a little more cunning way where
30:32I say it's everybody's issue. I mean, I
30:35like to say that I I I think I like to
30:37say a lot that bigotry is very stupid.
30:41And with stupid stuff or with all stupid
30:44stuff, they can very much be
30:45manipulated. Right? So, let's tell
30:48everyone, even the patriarchy, it's a
30:50patriarchal issue, too, because if
30:52people don't have proper period
30:53experience, they don't have children for
30:54you. How about that?
30:56How about that? What are you going to do
30:58about that? Now, you want a hair.
31:03Do you understand?
31:04>> So
31:05>> Um I said
31:08>> What people want in hairs?
31:10>> Because if you want to manipulate
31:11people, if you want to take people by
31:13you have to use their language. You have
31:14to use what's important to them, right?
31:17I I learned that when I navigate like
31:19when I do when I go to again, I've done
31:22like my first year of social
31:24work. Yeah, I'm
31:26UNICEF trained advocate. That means I've
31:28had to work with like different kinds of
31:29people. And then when you go to
31:31communities and when you go to rural
31:32areas, you're talking to people. You're
31:33not always using
31:34>> bogus terms.
31:35>> You're not using You're not even using
31:37political correctness. You're using
31:38terms that they relate to. You're using
31:39terms that make them comfortable enough
31:41to engage, to now talk, to now share
31:44their experience because it's one thing
31:45to understand you and keep you at a
31:47pace. They're going to be like, "Okay,
31:48that's a feminist issue. Now they sabi."
31:51Right? But then it's another thing to
31:53relate to them in a way that they now
31:55realize that oh, "No be them sabi. My
31:57daughter for house sabi."
31:59"My sister for house sabi." Another Do
32:01you understand where I'm coming from?
32:03Because again, this is a big burden and
32:06this is a burden that feminists have
32:08taken on themselves, on ourselves for
32:10decades, right? I've been out there in
32:13communities, going to schools, giving
32:15pads, carrying nurses with me
32:18to talk to students. And again, I do
32:20that and I don't even take the boys out.
32:22The boys are there. Sometimes they say,
32:23"Oh, I have a sister. Can I have pad?" I
32:25will give you the pad. Go and give it to
32:27your sister. And even if you do not you
32:29don't have a sister that you were just
32:30excited or you're just curious and you
32:32wanted to see, go and see. You will not
32:34see more than one. You will have six,
32:36seven others left. Somebody will need
32:38pad and you will give it to them.
32:39Right? So, I'm just saying
32:43I love this discussion so much.
32:45I love I love how you people are
32:47bringing me in.
32:48>> I really like your conclusion. It really
32:50starts with us.
32:51>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. It starts with us, but
32:52it doesn't have to end with us.
32:53>> Exactly. If we if we had people who
32:56thought like this, who had conversations
32:57like this years ago,
32:59boys would not be asking these questions
33:00on period.
33:01>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I'm glad
33:04that we are having conversations like
33:05this with amazing people like you
33:07because now we are moving things steps
33:09further and then more conversations can
33:11build on our shoulders.
33:13>> Exactly, exactly. True.
33:15>> Now, this is something that
33:18I was I I was going to arrive at, right?
33:21Right? When I say mhm, it's more than a
33:24feminist issue. It's an everybody issue.
33:25It's also a government issue.
33:27>> Truly.
33:27>> It's also a government issue because
33:29again, NGOs
33:31feminist-led NGOs have been doing the
33:35work that the government should be
33:36doing.
33:37>> Without proper funding.
33:38>> Yes, and yes. Without proper They're
33:40just doing.
33:42Right? And what would you say or how
33:46would you say the government can go
33:47about this? What is the role the
33:49government They know their role.
33:52>> I just want to say that
33:54>> Can we curse out the government?
33:55>> Yes, please. Nigerian government is
33:57>> Don't curse them out. Beg them. Like I
33:59said, when when you talk to people, you
34:02You have to You have TO TALK TO THEM.
34:05WE HAVE TO TALK TO THEM IN A LANGUAGE
34:07THAT THEY WILL UNDERSTAND.
34:10>> I I say I ask this. Nigerian government
34:12is sitting with all the blood in our
34:14hands.
34:15>> Because what do you mean a a a pad is
34:18You know how much a pad costs?
34:19>> Jesus. How much is our How much is the
34:22What is that money they usually pay? The
34:24minimum wage.
34:25>> Okay, yeah.
34:25>> How much is
34:26>> That's how you know you are with rich
34:28aunties and celebrities.
34:30She just tried to remember minimum wage.
34:32Can you imagine? Can you relate?
34:35>> How much is minimum wage? And then there
34:37are there are people who God help those
34:39people who bleed 8 days, 12 days.
34:43>> to be them.
34:45>> I really thank God for my very small
34:47period and that has allowed me to
34:48financially experience the process
34:50without dying. Do you understand? And
34:52it's so difficult for even people who
34:54walk because sometimes you don't have
34:56salary.
34:57Let's say you're a business person.
34:58Sometimes your business is not Do you
35:00understand?
35:01So how much more for the people who
35:03don't have or who don't earn enough?
35:04Government needs to look at the tax on
35:07>> pads.
35:08>> pads and tampons.
35:10>> These These These These These particular
35:13products when they come in they usually
35:14they're usually taxed.
35:16But they are important products. They
35:18are essential products. It's just like
35:20placing a tax on water. I I know that
35:21Nigerian government has tax somewhere.
35:23But we need to recognize that currently
35:26we are in a financial climate that makes
35:28it very difficult for people to go
35:30through their periods.
35:31Right? And people experience periods in
35:34horrible, terrible ways and the
35:37financial capacity to go through this
35:38experience with dignity is quite
35:41difficult. The tax on periods on pads
35:44are outrageous.
35:45>> Yeah, they are.
35:45>> Government's health awareness programs
35:47on ensuring that people who are in um
35:51areas where they have low water can be
35:53able to use pads or at least the cups,
35:56the reusable cups. What are they doing
35:58about that? What is the National
36:00Orientation Agency
36:01>> No idea.
36:02>> doing Yes, actually. Doing to orient
36:05people on the best
36:07period um products to use to help you.
36:10People who stay in areas without water,
36:12how can you What What should What is the
36:14best period um product that you should
36:15be using? Right? Really
36:17>> And it's not a one cup fits all.
36:19>> not. It is not at all. So while I I'm
36:21freaking out about reusable cups, there
36:23are other things that can be done to be
36:25able to fix or
36:27um at least mediate the issue of
36:30give dignity to the people that
36:31experience period. That's the least that
36:33you can do. Remove money for us, please.
36:35Thank you and God may remove money. Come
36:37on money on tax. Um pads are essential
36:39products.
36:39>> You know that meme where the person is
36:41like

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