Paul Bernardo — Police interrogation of notorious serial killer — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00"Okay tape's on"
2. 0:10My name is Detective Brad Hoover, my badge number 6188 and I'm with Toronto Police Service Sex
3. 0:18Crimes Unit. The time now is 2:05 p.m., we're  presently at the Kingston Penitentiary in Kingston
4. 0:26Ontario, in a boardroom, and as thick as the main  building you'd call it. Present in the room here
5. 0:33if I could just have each of you identify  yourself for the purposes of the videotape
6. 0:39that's being made. Seated to my left, off-camera  and now sitting at the table, is your counsel. Just
7. 0:45identify yourself. "Yes certainly. It's Anthony  Bryant." And straight across the table for me if you
8. 0:51identify yourself. "Constable Darlene Coulas, badge number six four eight three from Toronto
9. 0:56Police Service." And seated to my right, if you could just  identify yourself. "Paul Jason Teal — a.k.a. Paul Bernardo"
10. 1:11And again my name is Brad Hoover and today is  June the 7th 2007. Mr. Teal, the reason that
11. 1:21we're here today is to speak to you regards to a  couple of incidents, a couple of matters. First
12. 1:29of all before we start I just want you  to make sure that you're aware that what
13. 1:34we say is being videotaped here. "Yeah that  works." I'm just going to start this audio tape
14. 1:38I forgot to do that
15. 1:50Now I just started this audiotape here we started  the interview at 2:05 p.m. my name is Detective
16. 1:57Brad Hoover all you're not presently being  given a caution or anything and I want you
17. 2:05to understand what you're saying to us today  is voluntary. That means that if you don't want
18. 2:09to talk to us you don't have to. Your counsel  is present and if you need to speak to him you
19. 2:14certainly can but I just want to make sure  you understand what you're saying here is
20. 2:18voluntary and that we're interviewing you as  a potential witness. Do you understand that? "Yeah"
21. 2:28Just a little bit of background about the  first time we met back last year in April
22. 2:34of 2006. That was in regards to a letter that you  had sent through the attorney general's office
23. 2:41that filtered down to my office in regards to  some admissions that you made about some sexual
24. 2:49assaults that you committed. I'm here to tell you that  I have concluded that investigation and that there
25. 2:56have been two offenses that I have been able to  identify and with the information that you've
26. 3:03provided to me at that time was able to conclude  those matters as having been committed by yourself
27. 3:10So for that I thank you for that information. "Sorry,  you've identified..." Identified this offense, no no
28. 3:18no no I have identified the offense that you were  talking about and based on that information I was
29. 3:24able include those cases that actually provided  enough information that I was satisfied you were
30. 3:30the person that committed those offenses. "Okay." That make sense? "That makes sense, what about ones that you thought
31. 3:35that I came forward with that maybe you thought that I  didn't do? Were there any of those?" There was none that I thought you didn't do. There were some that
32. 3:44I didn't have enough information to either identify the offense because you were unable to provide enough details at that
33. 3:51time, or they may not have ever been reported  to the police. As you said when we spoke, some of them were
34. 3:58I won't call them minor type offences but ah — "No, I understand" — offences that may not have been  reported to the police. "Ok, um, well, I turned
35. 4:09on the TV, I waited for Peel Regional to come by;  September rolls they say, they make a public
36. 4:15announcement, it's written on my file here, that  that I lied to police and I did not commit the
37. 4:20crimes that I said I committed, the offences in Peel Region. Okay, big problem." I have spoken to Peel Region and they have told me that
38. 4:30they don't have enough information at this point  to identify anything that you, the letter that
39. 4:38was sent to the police to through to the police  wasn't specific enough to identify any offenses
40. 4:44Now that's something that we can talk about sort  of following this interview and if you want to get
41. 4:51into that we can talk about that. "Look, I've been sitting on this for years in this place. It's written on my file and it makes me seem
42. 4:57like always just this crazy — you guys love  doing that — I'm just this crazy psychopathic liar
43. 5:04Why was that statement issued? Why didn't they come in  and talk to me if they didn't have enough information. We
44. 5:08were waiting, now that tape, you can play that tape  back, I asked you guys is Peel Regional gonna
45. 5:11come in. I sat here month after month after  month — no one came. I turned on the TV in September
46. 5:17Peel Regional, you know, declared that Paul Bernardo was, you know, this crazy liar to police. What what what's the
47. 5:23fundamental problem here?" Well "I know I mean  justice, the Canadian way and and no one comes
48. 5:29in and now you guys are saying that you didn't  have enough information? Well..." I can't answer for
49. 5:33them specifically as to what they did or didn't  do. I can tell you that because they're a separate
50. 5:38police department I don't have any control over  what investigation that they did do I can tell
51. 5:43you that I have spoken with the investigator  in Peel Region and they have told me that at
52. 5:49this point they don't have enough information to  move forward. They haven't been able identify any offense that was
53. 5:56specifically talked about. "That statement you're  giving me as much different the public statement
54. 6:00they said which said I was a liar." I don't, I don't... "The same game, they didn't come in if they don't have enough
55. 6:04information, while don't you come in get the information.  I mean either I'm lying or not lying and this goes
56. 6:09to the crux of this argument. Either I'm a liar to  you, that I'm lying to you right now about everything like
57. 6:13I did to Peel Regional, according to their story, or  I'm not, and, you know, I I just I just I'm not gonna sit
58. 6:19here and, you know, come voluntarily and have people  come — you guys banned me from the press, you roll
59. 6:24your stories over and you constantly say that I'm  a liar, I'm a liar. I made mistakes 17 years ago, so
60. 6:28okay, fine, I did, but but now we're talking about  today and you're not gonna roll forward that I'm
61. 6:33some psychopathic liar sitting in jail claiming  other people's responsibilities for other crimes
62. 6:38This is a total of cross-examination point  you want started this thing James Lockyer is
63. 6:42gonna grab a hold of it and say, well he lied  about other crimes, you know he's a crazy
64. 6:46liar. Why didn't you guys resolve this?" And again  I can't answer for what Peel Region did or didn't do
65. 6:51Jurisdictionally we're kind of bound... "Well, still, there's the  good guys and the bad guys, you know, what I mean
66. 6:57you're on the same team." Yes we are, but as far as  us investigating matters that take place
67. 7:03outside of the actual Toronto proper, that's why  Peel Regional has their police service and, like
68. 7:08Detective Hoover said, we can't answer as to what  they did with their investigations or the many
69. 7:14issues that they were looking at that transpired  out in their area and we really can't speak to that. Now
70. 7:19whether that's something you wish to have your  counsel deal with someone and that something
71. 7:23else, but unfortunately there isn't a lot Detective Hoover and I can do with regards to those things
72. 7:30"Well, you've been watching this thing and they should subpoena these guys from Peel Regional
73. 7:34They can bring out all the  facts to show just where I lied that if I'm a
74. 7:37liar. That's what I say to do it because either  I'm a liar or I'm not a liar and I'm not a liar but
75. 7:42you guys are trying to paint me as one. The  public, court of the public, they turn on the
76. 7:46TV in September of last year and I was this crazy  liar. That's what the TV reported and not only did
77. 7:51the reported there, they wrote it on my file.  I've got to right in my cell: Paul Bernardo, Peel
78. 7:55Regional said Paul Bernardo lied to police about  crimes he didn't commit and said he did." Okay "I mean
79. 8:00this is this, that's just awful. I mean come on, enough  manipulation, you know what I mean, either you tell the
80. 8:05truth or don't, otherwise the whole purpose of  any interview is just stupid, because if I'm this
81. 8:09crazy liar, I'll be sitting here lying to you  about everything, right? Right? I mean, why wouldn't I am just
82. 8:15this crazy liar." And then, again, I don't I don't  know exactly what was said by Peel Region
83. 8:20I'm not here to answer to what they said, they're... "You  know, it's one thing, you know — I'm a human being
84. 8:28and to say that I'm a dangerous offender and raper  and killer and all this stuff is fine. I mean free
85. 8:32publicity, you know, get that real tough-on-crime, get that  bad guy, but but when you go to a certain point of
86. 8:37lying, it just, I mean, it affects me totally, you  know. I made mistakes, I made mistakes long time
87. 8:42ago, but don't say that today about this because then  we're liable and we got a big problem because
88. 8:46I'm looking at you and you're the bad guys, because  I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm out telling the
89. 8:51truth and you guys are walking around issuing  statements that I lie here, I lie there. No?"
90. 8:57Well, I mean, those aren't statements that were issued by Detective Hoover or myself or... "I know, but it's the same
91. 9:04it's Attorney General who sent you guys down  here, he's fighting the case, he's taking this
92. 9:07ball pitch back, right, so it's really all,  it's the same organization. It's the Attorney General
93. 9:11I see him on TV talking about it." But this is a  separate matter from what those issues were
94. 9:15"It's still the Attorney General's office." Yeah may very well be but, so, we can't speak to anything that Peel Regional does or  statements that they
95. 9:24release out to the media, because they have... "You  know, it's the same thing if I'm a liar
96. 9:31take the facts that that they have, they come down  and talk to me any cross-examine, any defence lawyer can call them up
97. 9:37and show me where I'm lying, because you're  not gonna find it. Maybe there's a minor mistake
98. 9:41here and there — I think I have one thing about some tree, driveway where trees were, you know memory gets a little old
99. 9:47over time, but to say that is just ridiculous.  Just like you guys didn't go, uh, you guys polygraph Karla yet? Ask her about it?
100. 9:56Nobody from the General Attorney’s office go down there? Nobody cared? Again — I know — but it's the same problem because you're making me out to be huge liar and and
101. 10:04this is a problem." Well, I don't have any doubt as to what you told us before.  The facts that I can verify I believe were true
102. 10:10And from what you told me you haven't told  me any lies yet, so I have no personal reasons
103. 10:16to believe that your lying. "Exactly." So... "Exactly." So...  "But this is was different story than I've got in
104. 10:21my file..." And I don't know what's in your file because I'm not privy to that information or
105. 10:26what's there or what's not there I'm just telling  you from my perspective and from an investigative
106. 10:32perspective into what I've looked into, to what  admissions you've made back in April last
107. 10:36year to me, I'm I'm satisfied I've done what I can  do as far as the investigation. If Peel, if you'd
108. 10:43like to provide me with more information about  the specific occurrences that occurred in Peel
109. 10:48Region then we can talk about that after the  focus of what we're here for today. "But it
110. 10:55is part of the focus." Well it is and it isn't. "Well I think it is."  I mean, obviously directly we're
111. 11:00here today to deal with the Baltovich matter that you're aware of. "But dealing with me comes down to credibility
112. 11:07Comes down to credibility, absolutely it does and that's  that's what we're here to talk about today and so
113. 11:14let's let's deal with that and then we can deal with the other stuff afterwards. Is that ok? "Yeah, go ahead, just making
114. 11:21my point on it because it's gonna be addressed  sometimes." Absolutely it will. "It should have been
115. 11:26dealt with a year and a bit ago. So"
116. 11:30"Well, not quite a year, actually." A little over a year ago.  Um, I have some questions that were that were given to
117. 11:40me to ask you in relation to the Baltovich matter, the Robert Baltovich matter before
118. 11:48we do that I just want to say you understand  obviously the importance of telling the truth
119. 11:51and the consequences potentially of someone  who lies to the police and not telling the
120. 11:58truth? "I think we discovered that actually I was  referring you guys tell the truth." Right, okay, so
121. 12:04we're aware of that in this matter I believe that you  had some conversation with your council into the
122. 12:09regards to it and there has been some discussion  about polygraph testing in this matter. Is that
123. 12:16true or not true or do you recall that? "Wha?... You're opening cans of worms everywhere." No, I'm just asking you a specific
124. 12:25question. "You know that goes back to you guys  polygraphed everyone about the Camaro, you didn't
125. 12:30polygraph Karla, and in two years since, have you  guys gone down there and asked her? Have you settled
126. 12:34the matter with it because you could say I lied  or whatever about polygraph but have you asked her?
127. 12:38Because it comes down to a lot of that issue." OK.  "You know I mean have you asked her? Has the attorney general gone down..." OK, I don't know
128. 12:46Let me tell you a little bit; my involvement  with this overall investigation of the Baltovich
129. 12:52is very limited. The only knowledge that I  have is, as to what investigation has been done or
130. 13:00hasn't been done, is specifically what's remained  the conversations I've had about this interview
131. 13:05here today, okay? Who or what other witnesses there  are, I don't know. "In answer, in answer to your
132. 13:12question, I don't want to go off in tangents, but  all these all these issues are relevant. I
133. 13:15know you don’t think they are. In answer to your  question is, we had some discussion on it but
134. 13:19when Corcoran and the OPP came down before Karla  was released I told him I'd be willing to take a
135. 13:25polygraph on anything and everything would you  in turn are you going to go down before you release
136. 13:29Karla and just asked her — she's not gonna take it  she's gonna fail on on all these issues — did her
137. 13:33hand cause [inaudible] blah blah blah did this  Tami happen in July, was the girl in January
138. 13:38actually kidnapped and not somebody I  picked up at a bar that she tried to roll
139. 13:42over and all these other issues all relevant all  relevant, and and, so then I addressed it to
140. 13:49you guys when you came back again last year I  said yeah I'll take a polygraph on anything because
141. 13:53I I'm not telling a lie on a thing. Are you, have  you, again, I asked the question have you guys gone down
142. 13:58there? I know that Karla's free now. I'm not in the  business of putting her in jail, it's not my thing
143. 14:02but my point was, did you ask you her the question  just so we get the story straight I mean if she
144. 14:07refuses, well, there's there's a reason why she's  refusing and again you guys couldn't provide the
145. 14:11answer and now almost a year later again you don't  provide the answer. So, I mean, you know, I don't know
146. 14:18what you're asking me, you're asking me to take a  polygraph when you were willing to ask her?" Well again
147. 14:22"I mean..." This this my part of this investigation  is is limited to what we're saying here today so
148. 14:27the the details of all of what other witnesses  may or may not have been asked or done, I
149. 14:32don't know and as a as a potential witness  I'm not allowed to tell you what we have done
150. 14:37so now I have to sort of be careful about the  way that it's answered or even what you think
151. 14:42my answer might be. "Yeah, I know, I just just wanted for  the record that I gave you good information which
152. 14:49you guys could have independent of me could have  verified my story or not and whether you guys do
153. 14:54or do not is your business. Like I said, I'm not a  prosecutor I'm not here to point a finger at
154. 14:57anyone but I showed you where to go so if you  guys don't do that your business. But you know
155. 15:02to me, it's like if you didn't, why didn't you if  you want to know the truth about things." Right. "So..."
156. 15:09I understand that and I understand what you're saying, so, what we're here to talk about today, obviously you know that this statement may be used in
157. 15:19court or maybe sent to court as a voluntary  statement. "Yeah." Okay a polygraph obviously is
158. 15:25not something that's court admissible but I'm not  sure if you're aware of that or not. "Yeah I am." So its not before the court
159. 15:31So the crux of what we're here to talk about is that it  has been suggested that in the continuing case
160. 15:39of the disappearance of Elizabeth Bain and  the charge of murder against Robert Baltovich
161. 15:44that you are the alternative suspect, or an  alternative suspect. Are you aware of that? "Yeah, yeah."
162. 15:52Did you kill Elizabeth Bain on June the 19th 1990?  "Well, it's a loaded question. I mean are we gonna
163. 16:01go back and go through the time sequence of what  happened in my life. I mean I could just give a
164. 16:06yes or no answer but you know there's a lot of  issues about that." Right. "You know, Karla's, my role
165. 16:12who did what, where, when — this is why I said did you  guys you know go down there to get a polygraph to
166. 16:17get to see if she was telling the truth. Like, why  didn't Bevan do it in the first place? I mean his
167. 16:22polygraphing everyone over the Camaro, why would  he make a deal with someone and not give them
168. 16:25a polygraph? It's incomprehensible to me. You  know because now I'm sitting — my file says her
169. 16:30version, and it's a lie. You know, you know what  I mean?" Yeah. "Like you know and I'm not making frivolous
170. 16:38points here. I mean, and now you're asking me  after you after you said Peel Regional said
171. 16:42I'm lying about this, and then you're saying I'm lying  about my profile, you're saying I'm lying if I'm
172. 16:46better or not, now you're saying hey did you kill  this person? I mean well you're saying I'm lying here
173. 16:50here here. I could say no I didn't, but I mean you  already said I'm lying here with Peel, you're
174. 16:56saying..." Ok, I'm not saying anything about who's lying  I'm simply, um... "And I’ve given you directions to go to
175. 17:02find the truth and no one's done that." And I  have asked and again I have told you that I've
176. 17:07done investigations on information that you've told me, and as a result of that information I have been
177. 17:14able to verify in my mind where you've told me the truth,  so if Peel Region is lying about you or someone
178. 17:21else is lying about you, I have no control over that or no...  "It goes right to credibility." Well absolutely
179. 17:26it does and that's I guess the the easy way  today is to if we can go through will answer
180. 17:31the questions and yes I hope to be able to go  through some timeline to identify where you
181. 17:36were what you were doing specifically in relation  to this this case. "Anyways I know I'm giving you
182. 17:42guys a hard time about certain things but, I mean, really,  I'm a human being and when you guys do all these
183. 17:47things I've gotta... anyways, I'll try and truncated it  a little bit more but, anyways, the answer to that is no, but the 800-pound
184. 17:57gorilla in the room is that's a life-25 sentence,  you know, it really comes down to credibility and
185. 18:03not only credibility but then again timeline.  I mean. between what Karla's and my roles were
186. 18:08respectively and this and that. The answer's no  to that question." Did you have anything to do
187. 18:16with her disappearance? "No." Did you know Elizabeth Bain? "Not that I know of." Had you ever met her? "I'm gonna answer that with I don't remember
188. 18:30Because if I did or I didn't, I don't remember
189. 18:33But I know an ex-girlfriend try to say it but, like I say, I don't remember"
190. 18:40You are they obviously are  aware of her disappearance?
191. 18:43"Yeah, sort of." Do you recall when you became aware of this?
192. 18:51"Best that I can recollect after in September
193. 18:56"Didn't follow the news much"
194. 19:01The date obviously June the 19th 1990 was... "But  but but, you know, other than that
195. 19:07I don't remember, maybe I heard about it before but I can't recall if I did or not. But I remember in jail I had  newspapers after that fact and I saw something on it"
196. 19:15We'll sort of get into that a little bit  when we hope to go through a bit of a timeline
197. 19:22with you as to some things that may jog your  memory as to.. "We're talking now." Back in that time. I mean
198. 19:29If you asked me what I was doing three weeks  ago on Tuesday I probably couldn't tell you
199. 19:33unless you put some reference to it so hopefully  be able to do that and again obviously June the
200. 19:4219th 1990, do you know what you were doing that  day? "I have no recollection." I have a document here in front of me that
201. 19:56references some points in time around  this, the June of 1990 period from police
202. 20:03investigation. This is what indicates  you may have been involved with or may
203. 20:09have certain things that you may have  done and I'd like to go through a couple
204. 20:12of them that sort of may sort of assist  you in remembering what we were doing back in 1990
205. 20:22The first part of June 1990 actually June  the first, Karla had a doctor's appointment
206. 20:32where she was complaining of pains in her  right side, perhaps she had something to do
207. 20:41with the rabies shot, does that ring any bells?  "None at all." In the first part of June you had a Nissan
208. 20:50240sx is that correct? "Yeah." You're making several  trips into the United States June 2nd June 3rd
209. 20:58June 10th June 16th. I think at that point you  were involved with cigarette smuggling and
210. 21:04things like that from what I recall. Is that no? "That would be. No, that wasn't until after we moved out, so." Ok.
211. 21:14So, making several trips to the States within  a couple of days that's something...? "When we
212. 21:19started the relationship we were going over  all the time so just for personal reasons only"
213. 21:25On June the 16th you shopped at Ruff Hewn. Is that Niagara  Falls, United States, is that store sound familiar to you?
214. 21:36"Yeah it sounds familiar, I have no idea if those are the dates, but you got a receipt for it." I think there must be a receipt and again I don't
215. 21:42have all the details I'm just going by what's on this sheet of paper — it's a black expandable binder, does that... "I can't recall 100 percent but..."
216. 21:54That would have been around the same time. That was about a week prior to, if you purchased one of those, Elizabeth Bain going missing
217. 22:02"I have no idea when I purchase it, I just recall  I had something like that, like an accordion binder type of thing
218. 22:11June June the 16th again, thats woulda been the same day in St. Catharines you
219. 22:16attended a movie Back to the Future  3. Do you recall when that movie came out? "I have no idea"
220. 22:28There's a receipt for a cellphone  purchased at a Radio Shack at the
221. 22:32Town & Country mall at 6366 Yonge  Street. Do you remember buying a cellphone
222. 22:38"I know I bought a cell phone around that  time because when I declared bankruptcy I handed my other one in and I bought the Radio Shack one
223. 22:46I don't know the dates." That would have been the  day after Elizabeth Bain went missing
224. 22:54Does that... do you remember anything you were involved with around that time? You say you were going bankrupt so what
225. 23:00type of activity were involved in sort of on a day-to-day basis? "The only thing I remember about the bankruptcy that happened
226. 23:07around a couple days before  the the sexual assault that
227. 23:13the composite came out, that was — if i recollect correctly — it was two days before I filed for that
228. 23:27"But I couldn't even tell you that date, I just  know it was some time in... what date did you say that was?
229. 23:32June the...?" June the 16th of 1990. "When was  that sexual assault, the one with the composite, was it the 24th
230. 23:40What date do you guys have for that?"
231. 23:49There was one, there was a sexual assault  in May of 1990. "That the composite one? In May?"
232. 23:57I think that it is but it doesn't say that  specifically here but shortly after that... "My time line's off."
233. 24:04"Um, I don't know." The end of June of 1990 that was the original, when someone identified you potentially .
234. 24:13as the Scarborough rapist... "When  was that, the end of...?" That was June 28 of 1990
235. 24:22Lori Homolka's 19th birthday was  June the 22nd 1990. Do you recall her going to her
236. 24:30birthday? "I know, I know it was  around that time but I don’t specifically recall that birthday"
237. 24:36The only reason it might have sunk in is she would have then been of legal drinking age and perhaps you [inaudible]
238. 24:46"Way before that"
239. 24:49June 21st so after just the day after you've  bought the cell phone you made a purchase at
240. 24:57"I'm sorry, you know saying what 19 for this girl's...?" June 19th was the day she went missing
241. 25:01"What day did I buy that?" June 20th was the day you bought the cell phone. June 25 "I must have declared bankruptcy
242. 25:10around then because I got that cell phone — I had to hand my, all my, uh, items in to the trustee
243. 25:16and I had a cell phone, so I went in and got a Radio Shack one, so it would have been right around the same time, I don’t think I went a month without it
244. 25:27I don't think so, I might have, but anyways I don't know, it was a while ago, so memory's a bit fuzzy." Yeah, May the 29th which was just before that
245. 25:37about a month before that that was the day that  the police released the composite. "Ah, so it was May"
246. 25:43"So I lost a month. That's what happens you lock a guy over fifteen years and then bring this all up
247. 25:50"The memory gets fuzzy. So I guess  I waited a month to get the cell phone." About a
248. 25:56month to get the cell phone. Did you recall anything  what were what were you doing sorry during that month?
249. 26:00Anything? "Probably the same thing says they're  going across the border, back and forth, recreational stuff
250. 26:05"I know Tammy happened in July. That was I think third week  in July, for the first time but this was back a few months"
251. 26:32Okay, so just prior to Tammy's birthday there  was some shopping at a Canadian Tire store... "Lori"
252. 26:37"Lori's birthday. Sorry, Lori's birthday. Two times in one day you went to
253. 26:45Canadian Tire on Sheppard Avenue 1019 Sheppard Avenue. Do you normally shop
254. 26:53at Canadian Tire stores? "Back then, yeah. That's before all  these super center, Walmart's and stuff"
255. 27:05Do you ever recall having any conversations  about the disappearance of Elizabeth Bain?
256. 27:16"No." If I if I played you a, it's going to play  us a short audio clip. It's a conversation
257. 27:29that you had — or a conversation between Tony Moore who was an investigator with
258. 27:36the Toronto police and Karla Homolka.  I'm just going to play to see if this
259. 27:41sounds familiar or if it jogs your memory  as to any conversation you may have had
260. 27:49Had there been any discussion about Bain's disappearance?
261. 28:04"Umm, I think the only thing that he ever said  was about her was that her boyfriend did
262. 28:09it or something like that but there wasn't any
263. 28:12real extensive discussion but he talked  about like all the women that were disappearing"
264. 28:25Again that that was a conversation between  an investigator Tony Moore with the Toronto
265. 28:30Police Service and Karla Holmolka. Does that conversation, is  that something you may recall saying that to Karla
266. 28:36or talking about that? "Well, you know, she went down 'Paul did it.'  Catchphrases at trial — 'Paul did it,' 'It
267. 28:42was Paul.' She's continuing right here, the fact  of the matter was, since I didn't pay attention
268. 28:49to anything, I didn't watch the news back then, I  was too busy doing other things. I didn't pay attention but there's the
269. 28:54profile is a serial killer pays attention to all the news media, this narcissistic personality, blah blah blah
270. 28:59All that crap. I don't know anything about this case now, I don't  know if this guy did it, I don't even care I'm not a
271. 29:06prosecutor, you know, do the right thing for  society blah blah blah I don't know if he
272. 29:10did it, I don't have the facts to know if he did it, and I certainly didn't know back then, so to say
273. 29:15that for me to make, she's alleging that I made  a statement 'the boyfriend did it.' well, you know
274. 29:21some cases I have followed because I'm in jail and I've nothing else to do but watch the
275. 29:25TV, but I weigh the facts, you know, I take, you know, like did OJ like do it for example, right
276. 29:30You weigh the facts about whether he  did or not, he got off, so I think that's the law but
277. 29:34I would have had to weigh the facts. I don't know  the facts in these circumstances so there's no way
278. 29:38I can make a statement such as that. How could I say  he did it if I don't know the facts of the case
279. 29:45So, no, she’s, she’s incorrect"
280. 29:48And it may depend on when that conversation took place
281. 29:54between between her and and that investigator
282. 29:58"Well, Moore, wasn’t he back when that deal was made?
283. 30:02"Moore, if I remember reading the transcripts that was a name from day one, when she signed her little twelve year deal, no polygraph required. Hey I'm
284. 30:12I'm giving you the truth here, you guys  can prove me wrong, go down there ask her
285. 30:15You're gonna get a no. I keep telling you but no one  does it. But on but you know so that's sounds
286. 30:22like a conversation but that's what you  do, you want to blame it all on the other person
287. 30:26You know, you paint that scenario.— psychopathic serial killer"
288. 30:34Do you do you know Robert Baltovich?
289. 30:38"I’ve seen him on, you know, on [inaudible] TV or whatever
290. 30:43"Okay, so I purposely avoided this case." Right.  "I don't like this shit on my
291. 30:48mind, do you know what I mean? Anything to do with... You know, unfortunately when Karla came out I watched and tried
292. 30:53to discern truth, fact between fiction  a couple of years ago but otherwise, you
293. 30:57know, I don't like to get into these things.  I've had 100 lifetimes of all her stuff and I
294. 31:04don't want my mind poisoned with this  and this and this, so in this case I avoid it as much as possible
295. 31:12But I have seen his face on the TV"
296. 31:16Anything else you'd like to  tell us about this investigation?
297. 31:20"No."
298. 31:29Okay, the time now is 2:35 and we'll  conclude this portion of our interview
299. 31:38"Okay."