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Passive Income Expert: How To Make $10k Per Month In 90 Days! — Transcript

by The Diary Of A CEO · 27,054 words · 4,321 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00A lot of people are looking for passive
0:02income from side hustles. Yeah, it's the
0:04financial Ozempic. And it's more
0:05accessible than ever. Like 90% of the
0:07ideas I talk about can be launched with
0:09$500 or less. And there's enough [music]
0:11time in the day to do these on the
0:13nights and weekends. So in these three
0:14suitcases in front of me, I have three
0:16different amounts of money. And during
0:17this conversation, I'm going to pass you
0:19a box at random. And your job is to tell
0:21me what kind of business you would start
0:23with that amount of money. Sounds good?
0:24Let's do this.
0:25>> Known as the king of side hustles, Chris
0:27Curner has launched over 80 businesses,
0:29earning millions in the process. [music]
0:31>> And now, the serial entrepreneur is
0:33going to teach us how to adopt a
0:35business mindset
0:36>> and launch simple, overlooked, but
0:38profitable ventures with little money.
0:40>> Many of us struggle financially, and
0:42they see a side hustle as a solution to
0:43that. Like for me, growing up kind of
0:45poor, business allowed me to take hold
0:47of my life and make it what I wanted it
0:48to be. And it started when I was 9 years
0:50old and wanting a red Schwinn bicycle.
0:52My friends had a bicycle, my neighbors
0:53had a bicycle, and my parents didn't
0:54have money for it. But I lived across
0:56the street from a golf course, and these
0:57golf balls would fly in my yard. And I
0:58would go to my neighbor's yard and go
1:00across the street, dig through the
1:01ditches, and I'd pull out all these golf
1:02balls, and I started selling them. That
1:04was my first business. That taught me
1:05that business is approachable, and we
1:07all have ideas, but we usually don't do
1:09anything about it.
1:10>> Why?
1:10>> I think number one, they're afraid of
1:12what people think. Number two is they
1:13don't have the tools, or they're not
1:14connecting the tools with the ideas. If
1:16we can get over those, the world is our
1:18oyster at that point.
1:20>> You have $1,000, what side hustle do you
1:21start?
1:22>> The first thing that comes to mind is my
1:23favorite business idea of all right now.
1:25So it's a zero employee business. It's
1:27highly profitable, and that would be
1:30>> So how important is it for you to love
1:31the thing to be successful at it?
1:33>> Ignore passion, [music]
1:34follow the profit until you can afford
1:36to follow your passion. Do they need a
1:37business partner? No. If you look at the
1:39stats on business failure rates with
1:41companies that have co-founders, it's
1:43significantly higher in companies that
1:45have solo founders.
1:46>> And how does someone validate a business
1:47idea?
1:48>> If I had to pick one tool, it's one that
1:50one in four humans use every day.
1:53That's everything you need right there.
1:58I see messages all the time in the
1:59comment that some of you didn't realize
2:01you didn't subscribe. So, if you could
2:03do me a favor and double check if you're
2:05a subscriber to this channel, that would
2:06be tremendously appreciated. It's the
2:07simple, it's the free thing that anybody
2:10that watches the show frequently can do
2:11to help us here to keep everything going
2:13in this show in the trajectory it's on.
2:15So, please do double check if you
2:16subscribed and thank you so much because
2:19in a strange way you are you're part of
2:21our history
2:22and you're on this journey with us and I
2:23appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank
2:25you.
2:26[music]
2:31[music]
2:33Chris,
2:34who are you and what is the mission that
2:37you're [clears throat] on?
2:39>> I am a father,
2:41I am a husband, and I'm a serial
2:43entrepreneur,
2:44and I love talking about business and
2:47starting businesses and
2:49inspiring other people to do the same.
2:51>> Why?
2:53>> Business has given me everything. Um
2:55growing up kind of poor, it was my
2:57outlet. It was my way of just kind of
2:59taking hold of my life and making it
3:01what I wanted it to be
3:03and I have immense gratitude for that.
3:05Um
3:06and I love I just love talking about it.
3:07I
3:09It's the only thing I know.
3:10You I can't talk to you about history or
3:12nutrition or anything, but when it comes
3:14to business I just love it and I want
3:15other people to love it as well.
3:18>> How have you made your name in the world
3:19of business? Because I've heard your
3:20name a lot recently. People call you the
3:23king of side hustles.
3:25Where has this come from?
3:27>> I think I just published my life on the
3:28internet now.
3:30Um I I'm always testing and launching
3:33and starting businesses,
3:35but only over the last couple years have
3:36I started publishing that.
3:38And
3:40I didn't try to be like the king of side
3:41hustles. That's not something that I've
3:43ever like intentionally tried to brand
3:45myself as,
3:46but I think people see what I do as a
3:48side hustle and they call it that, but I
3:50think that anything is scalable. Any
3:52side hustle could could be a
3:54multi-million dollar business. Um I mean
3:56we we live on a planet with 8 billion
3:58people and we're all connected and
4:00anything can be scaled.
4:01>> And you make a lot of
4:02>> now, so you've probably
4:04had a bit of a feedback loop in terms of
4:06understanding what it is that you say
4:08and do and create that's resonant with
4:10people, and also why it's resonant. Like
4:13what is the crux of what people like my
4:15audiences are are looking for?
4:17>> As humans, we all want
4:20a silver bullet. We want a solution to
4:22our problems, and
4:24many of us struggle financially, um and
4:27they see a side hustle as as an outlet
4:29to that or as a solution to that. I
4:31think everyone has ideas. Um most people
4:35are very hesitant to execute on those
4:37ideas. And so when they see someone like
4:39me freely executing on all the ideas, it
4:43hopefully it opens their mind and helps
4:46them look at their ideas in a different
4:48way or a more approachable way and maybe
4:50gives them confidence to do the same.
4:52>> In the boxes in front of me here, I have
4:54three different amounts of money.
4:57$500, I think I have $1,000 and $5,000.
5:01And during this conversation, I'm going
5:02to pass you a box at random, and your
5:05job is to tell me what kind of business
5:07you would start with that amount of
5:08money because I know my audience, you
5:10know, they're many of them are
5:11interested in starting their own
5:12business one day. And I use specifically
5:14sort of low amounts of money just to
5:16make it as accessible to them as
5:17possible. So we will do that at some
5:18point. I'll pass you the boxes. You give
5:20me three business ideas you'd start with
5:21$500, $1,000, and $5,000.
5:24Um
5:25but I want to get a view on on you and
5:28the businesses that you've started and
5:29their sort of the variety of success
5:31you've had. So can you give me an
5:32overview?
5:33>> Yeah.
5:34So I was 9 years old, living in Utah,
5:37and I lived across the street from a
5:38golf course. And these golf balls would
5:40fly in my yard. And I don't know what
5:42gave me the idea, but I started selling
5:45them. Um I just wanted money for a bike.
5:47I wanted this Schwinn bicycle. And it
5:49was red, and my friends had a bicycle,
5:51my neighbors had a bicycle, and my
5:52parents didn't have money for it. And so
5:53for whatever reason, I connected that
5:55white golf ball in my grass with money.
5:58And I would go to my neighbors' yards,
6:00I'd go across the street, I'd dig
6:02through the ditches, and I'd pull out
6:03all these golf balls, I'd wash them, and
6:04then I put up this huge piece of plywood
6:06in front of my house that said golf
6:08balls three for a dollar. And that was
6:10my first business.
6:12And at the time it was just normal, it
6:14was natural. Uh I didn't know any
6:15different. And now I have a
6:17nine-year-old, and I was nine when I did
6:19that.
6:20And we live on a busy road today. I
6:21lived on a busy road then. And the
6:23thought of him like
6:25negotiating, haggling with grown-ups
6:27wearing polo shirts on our doorstep is
6:30unfathomable. But that's what I was
6:32doing. And that planted the seed that
6:34kind of taught me that business is
6:36approachable.
6:37Um preferably it's approachable.
6:39Approachable and scalable can be the
6:41same thing. They don't have to be at
6:42odds with one another.
6:44So.
6:44>> And how many businesses have you started
6:45since then?
6:46>> I lose count. I have a spreadsheet, um
6:48but it's at least 80.
6:51>> And what's the what what are the
6:52outcomes been? How much money have you
6:54made? What kind of how has that changed
6:55your life? What freedom has that given
6:56you?
6:57>> Yeah. So cumulatively uh all of the
7:00businesses have generated low hundreds
7:02of millions of revenue,
7:03um low tens of millions of profit.
7:07Um but on a real number basis
7:11the majority of them have been abandoned
7:13or fizzled out or failed or there was
7:16too much opportunity cost, so I pivoted
7:18to something else. Um it's just a
7:20numbers game.
7:22>> And how how has that changed your life?
7:24What does your lifestyle look like?
7:26>> My life is awesome. Um we built our
7:28dream house in our 20s. Uh we had all
7:30four of our kids in our 20s. We travel a
7:32lot. Uh we're I've been married for 17
7:35years. And we're a very close family. We
7:37take a lot of trips. Um
7:40we live in a good school district, but
7:41like my kids go to public school. And um
7:44we have everything we need and more. And
7:45we're very grateful for that.
7:47>> What is the overt sort of underpinning
7:50mentality that's required for someone to
7:52be successful
7:54at starting businesses in the way that
7:55you started them, starting these side
7:57hustles at volume and seeing success? Is
8:00there like a foundational mentality or
8:02personality or character trait required
8:05before we get into the tactics.
8:06>> Yeah.
8:08The
8:08>> hmm
8:10>> I should say that the
8:12the pain of your problem needs to be
8:14greater than how much you care about
8:17what people think about you. It needs to
8:19get to that point because by far that is
8:21the biggest roadblock to success is
8:24people caring too much about what people
8:26think about them. And so they don't want
8:28to do that thing or they don't want to
8:29talk about doing the thing because some
8:31random person from high school follows
8:33them on Facebook and might comment
8:35something, right? Which is really silly,
8:37but I I've been there. I get it, right?
8:40If we can get over that, if we can just
8:42flip the switch in our brain that says
8:43people are thinking about me, people are
8:45caring about me, and just switch that to
8:46off,
8:47well, when? Right? Because the world is
8:50our oyster at that point.
8:52>> And in terms of where we sit at this
8:53moment of time with technology, with AI,
8:56with in fast internet, with mobile
8:58phones,
8:59do you think this is the best time for
9:01people to start something to to start a
9:03side hustle or to try?
9:05>> Every day that goes by the timing gets
9:07better for people, right? Things are
9:10getting more competitive, but there are
9:12more tools than ever.
9:13Um 10 years ago if I wanted to start a
9:16business
9:17and this is like the internet's in full
9:18swing, social media's in full swing, I
9:20probably had to spend a lot of money or
9:22move to San Francisco or raise venture
9:23capital. That's like I
9:27I would love for you to try to convince
9:28me. Try to give me an idea where you
9:30have to raise money or where you have to
9:32go all in or where you you have to quit
9:34your job. It doesn't exist. With all
9:36these AI tools, software tools, you can
9:38make a website with one prompt, you can
9:40make an app with one prompt, you can
9:42post to Facebook Marketplace and have
9:43hundreds of inquiries within an hour,
9:45you can post Facebook ads, you could go
9:47to Craigslist, like you could put a sign
9:49up in front of your house, you could go
9:51launch a survey to people, like there
9:53are so many tools for testing and
9:55validating and experimenting with these
9:57concepts that it is more accessible than
9:59ever.
10:01>> Why don't people?
10:04>> I think number one is they're afraid of
10:06what people think. Number two is they
10:07don't have the tools or at least they're
10:09not connecting the tools with the ideas,
10:12right? They'll use Facebook Marketplace
10:14to sell a sectional, but then they won'
10:17think to use it when validating their
10:20woodworking idea, right? They're just
10:23not connecting the dots. There's too
10:24many tools in a sense, so we don't know
10:26how to tie them all together. Um
10:30they also probably don't know
10:33like how much the law of abundance is a
10:35real thing, right? People think business
10:38is a zero-sum game.
10:39>> What does that mean?
10:40>> Well, they think that things are
10:41oversaturated. They'll have an idea for
10:43a product or a service, and then they'll
10:45get really excited, and then they'll go
10:47Google it, and then they'll see it
10:48exists, and they'll move on.
10:49And when I do that and I see it exists,
10:51I'm like, yes, this is it. Someone
10:54someone went to the front lines of the
10:55battlefield and validated this for me.
10:58And then I'll go to the Web Archive,
11:00I'll go to Whois, and I'll go look at
11:02what their website has looked like over
11:03the last decade, see where they started.
11:06Maybe their product was $99. Now it's
11:08like 49 every two months. Interesting.
11:12Okay. I'll look at the the copy of their
11:14headline. I'll look at like how many
11:17tabs they have on their website. Do they
11:19post their Instagram feed on I'll look
11:21at all these things and see how it's
11:22evolved over time and think awesome.
11:25I'm going to start where he's at today.
11:27Like this guy already proved it out for
11:28me. He took all the risk. This is
11:30amazing. This exists. I don't need to
11:33like do it better. I don't need to do it
11:34differently. I just need to do the same
11:36thing. Um and the market is big enough,
11:39the world is big enough to where I can
11:41win as well.
11:42>> You said um Web Archive. What role does
11:44Web Archive play? What is that for
11:45anyone that isn't familiar and how do
11:47you use that?
11:48>> Yeah, it's just a tool that shows
11:50snapshots uh over time of what a website
11:52looks like, right? So it's a great way
11:54of kind of reverse engineering what
11:56businesses have done to be successful.
11:59And then there's another tool called
12:00SimilarWeb where you can see what their
12:02traffic has been over time,
12:03and you can kind of overlay the two. And
12:05you can say, oh, interesting, when they
12:07when they redesigned their website to be
12:09more mobile-friendly, their traffic went
12:11from 3,000 a month
12:13to 4500 a month. Interesting.
12:15I'm just going to make it mobile
12:16friendly from day one, right? So we are
12:19at a great advantage when we start
12:21where our competitors or our future
12:23competitors already are instead of
12:25starting where we think we need to be,
12:27starting like trying to be different or
12:29innovative or unique. In my experience,
12:31that's more of like a signal of our
12:33pride or our ego. We feel kind of like
12:36weird or odd or even dirty or unethical
12:39if we're just like copying and pasting a
12:41business, even if we had the original
12:43idea ourselves, when really there's
12:45nothing to be ashamed of. Like we don't
12:46want to steal their intellectual
12:48property or their logo or anything. But
12:51copy what's already working.
12:53>> People think yeah, people don't think
12:54that
12:56that's a thing because they think if I
12:57copy a business that's already working,
12:58then I'm not going to get any customers
13:00because that this existing business has
13:02all the customers.
13:04>> Mhm.
13:04>> But it's interesting. I had someone on
13:05the show where they talked about how
13:07some of the greatest entrepreneurs in
13:08the world basically just copy 95% of the
13:10blueprint. I think it was Walmart. I
13:11think he was talking about Walmart, but
13:13>> Yeah, they copied other like regional
13:14grocery chains.
13:16>> Mhm. [clears throat]
13:17Copying is a strategy.
13:18>> Yeah.
13:20>> Have you done that?
13:21>> Oh, absolutely.
13:22>> Give me an example.
13:24>> Okay. Well, I
13:26I had a phone repair business in when I
13:28was in college, 2010.
13:31And
13:32I got a call one day
13:34from someone that said, hey Chris, I
13:35want to buy all of your broken iPhone
13:38screens. Do you have any broken iPhone
13:39screen? Sure. We don't throw them away
13:41because we think it's bad for the
13:42environment. We just have a box of them.
13:44How much will you pay me? Three bucks a
13:45piece.
13:46Why? Why Why will you pay me $3? It's
13:49just broken glass. And they said, well,
13:51there's actually a way of
13:52remanufacturing these. You can send them
13:54to China. We can remove the broken
13:55glass, put new glass on them, and then
13:57we can resell them as a remanufactured
13:59unit.
14:00And that was just like a light bulb,
14:01right? So most people I think at this
14:03point would say, yeah, like
14:05yeah, where do I ship these? You know?
14:07But I was like,
14:09oh that I need to be in that business. I
14:10want to copy that guy who called me,
14:12right? Now I don't know what his website
14:14was. I don't know I don't know know what
14:16name of his business was. There was no
14:17web archive at the time to look at. I
14:19just wanted to copy the business model.
14:21Cuz I thought this is going to be a
14:23thing.
14:24I'm in the industry. I know the
14:25industry. I'm going to do this as well.
14:27So we did 2 million the first year, then
14:295 and then 9 and then we exited a few
14:32years after that.
14:33>> It's interesting, but you know, you
14:34often don't think that
14:37everyone's in search of a new idea.
14:38>> Mhm.
14:40>> And it's tough to find new ideas.
14:41>> Yeah.
14:42>> Like I think was it Einstein that said
14:43there's no such thing as a new idea?
14:45Sounds right. But you have an
14:47orientation just to look at existing
14:48models and to replicate them.
14:50Do you put a spin on it at all?
14:53>> I'll develop my own spins over time,
14:55right? Because we're all a product of
14:57our environment. And so in in the case
14:59of this business, I started copying
15:01exactly, right? I went and found people
15:04in China. I just went to Alibaba. I
15:07messaged a ton of people that sold
15:08iPhone screens and I said, do you
15:10recycle? Do you recycle? Do you recycle?
15:12And like 5 or 10% of them said yes.
15:14So then I shipped them samples and then
15:16they shipped me some back. And and then
15:18over time I started like taking some
15:21marketing principles principles from
15:22previous businesses like Facebook ads,
15:24cold calling
15:25and I started applying them just cuz I
15:27didn't know how this other competitor
15:30was finding success. I knew he was cold
15:32calling and that was working. That's all
15:33I knew. Remember I didn't even know the
15:34name of his business. And so over time
15:36you start using your previous
15:38experiences to apply these tweaks to the
15:41business and to make it your own. But if
15:43you do that right at the outset, right?
15:45Like if I got a call and he said, I want
15:47to buy your broken iPhone screens and I
15:48said, okay, I'm going to do that, but I
15:50don't want to just sell iPhone screens.
15:51That's lame. I'm going to do Samsung,
15:53right?
15:54Pretty good chance there's not even a
15:55market for that or there's not even a
15:56method for that. And because of my my
15:58ego, my pride, my unwillingness to just
16:01copy what's already working, I wouldn't
16:03that
16:04I wouldn't have that successful business
16:06in my back pocket, right?
16:07>> Mhm.
16:08>> [clears throat]
16:08>> So
16:09if you do twists in the beginning, it's
16:10kind of like your
16:12um I kind of thinking of an analogy.
16:14Like if you're on a long road trip and
16:16you start taking detours early on or if
16:18a flight is on a flight path and he
16:20starts like getting off track just a
16:21little bit at the beginning, he's going
16:23to end off he's going to end up hundreds
16:25of miles away from his destination. But
16:27if he starts making tweaks along the
16:28way, then he'll be much closer to where
16:30he would have been anyway.
16:32>> Mhm. And you [clears throat] might
16:34reach a better destination with some of
16:36those tweaks.
16:37>> Because you're blending it with your
16:38your experience, what you know better
16:40than the person that you're copying.
16:42>> And so it's important to to copy the
16:44model exactly at the beginning because
16:46you're also going to learn what it is
16:48about that existing model that works and
16:51therefore what you can iterate on,
16:52change, expand. If you if you didn't,
16:54then you might miss something.
16:56>> Exactly. Cuz
16:57so often I've made the mistake of
16:59looking at another business and saying,
17:01oh man, why are they doing that? Why are
17:03they charging like that? Why like
17:04they're charging all these different
17:05things. That's so confusing. I made this
17:07mistake. I had a an e-commerce
17:09fulfillment business where brands would
17:11send us all their products. We had this
17:12big warehouse and we would ship all all
17:15of their stuff out, right?
17:17And I was like, why do they have storage
17:19fees, pick pack and ship fees? They they
17:22charge fees for tracking their
17:24expiration dates. They charge extra fees
17:27if there's five items in a box versus
17:28four. Like there's so much friction
17:30there. That's so messy. Like we're going
17:32to make this simple. We're going to just
17:34one flat fee, no storage fee and that's
17:36going to be our differentiator, right?
17:38And then over time, over the course of
17:39months and years, we learned, oh,
17:42storage fees, it's because sometimes
17:44your customers go out of business and
17:46then you're left holding the bill and
17:48like your storage costs are actually
17:49very high, but there's nothing to pass
17:51on. Oh, pick pack and ship fees because
17:54you learn all these things and you're
17:56like, okay, I wasn't like this genius
17:58that had an MBA. I was just like trying
18:00to put my own spin on it cuz I thought I
18:01was smarter than that business owner.
18:03Turns out someone that's been doing this
18:04for 15 years versus 15 days knows a lot
18:07more about the industry than me and I'm
18:09much better off just copying his
18:10pricing, copying the layout of his
18:12website, copying the size of the
18:14warehouse he has, copying the same niche
18:16that he 's going after cuz that's
18:18clearly working for him. So I don't make
18:20that mistake anymore. I don't I don't
18:22assume that other competitors are
18:24idiots, right?
18:25>> Yeah.
18:26>> I've been proven wrong too many times. I
18:27assume that they're doing that because
18:31they've learned the hard way.
18:32>> Yeah.
18:33>> And if I copy them, then I won't have to
18:34learn the hard way.
18:35>> I had um several of our executives over
18:37at my house over the last couple of
18:38days, and we were looking at different
18:40models of So basically we're looking at
18:42other companies that do similar things
18:44to us that have been around for a long
18:46time. And the question that I ended up
18:48asking at one moment when I was I had
18:49the exact same epiphany. I was like, why
18:51do they do it that way? Isn't that
18:52shitty?
18:52>> Mhm.
18:53>> And
18:54there was a second where I think we were
18:55tempted to try and reinvent the wheel.
18:58But the question I asked myself now with
18:59the wisdom of like many years of
19:01business is like, why did it end up that
19:03way?
19:04>> Mm.
19:05>> Which is why did our competitor who's
19:06been doing this for 50 years end up
19:09there?
19:10Because they as you said, there's
19:12clearly a set of things that have
19:13happened
19:15that have made them conclude, whether
19:16it's at scale or some other factor
19:18that's made them conclude that this is
19:20the best way of doing it. And just like
19:22you, I've been wrong so many times where
19:23I've thought, oh, they're just idiots.
19:25That's why they they they can't see this
19:26obvious thing. But actually their model
19:28is stress tested in the market much more
19:29than
19:30mine is. So maybe I should
19:33I should put my ego aside and at least
19:35start how they start, as you said, which
19:37I think is really important advice.
19:38>> Yeah. Well, there are times when a
19:39company just keeps doing something
19:41because it works.
19:42>> Yeah.
19:42>> And so they don't take the time to test
19:44something that works better, right?
19:46>> Mm. Yeah.
19:46>> But it's almost impossible to guess what
19:48that is, right? Like if a if a clothing
19:51brand is growing their business entirely
19:52through Facebook ads, um and they've
19:54just never tried Google ads, maybe
19:57Google ads could convert twice as better
19:58twice twice better, right? But I don't
20:01want to guess that. I just want to start
20:02with Facebook ads, and then I'll still
20:03take 5% of my budget and start testing
20:05other concepts. But nine times out of 10
20:08I ended up just coming right back to
20:10Facebook ads.
20:11>> It got me thinking about how in business
20:13basically everything, again speaking
20:15broadly here, can be put into one of two
20:17categories, either like old problems
20:19where thousands of people have come
20:20before you and the same solutions and
20:24thinking is still relevant and then new
20:26problems. You know, things like AI have
20:28created a set of new problems, new
20:30opportunities as well. And what I tend
20:32to find is that like 95% of the things
20:34in business are like old problems, like
20:36hiring, cash flow, how finances done,
20:38legal, all those kinds of things.
20:40And the and when when you're dealing
20:42with a new an old problem, expertise is
20:44usually the answer, which is like find
20:46someone who knows or hire someone or
20:48mentor or whatever. And then you have
20:49these new problems where there is no
20:51blueprint in our industry. It's it's a
20:53new new challenge. So experimentation is
20:56the answer. Does that like broadly hold
20:58in your in your mind?
20:59>> Oh, 100%. Yeah, I I like to say test
21:01everything except drugs.
21:03Like we're always testing.
21:05Um it's the basis to everything we do.
21:08>> But do you test when it's an old
21:09problem?
21:11>> Can you give me an example?
21:12>> So
21:13like things like cash flow management,
21:16um
21:17hiring principles around like probation
21:20and uh notice periods,
21:24um a lot of legal structuring and deals.
21:27>> Things with like a well-established
21:28president.
21:29>> presidents where like nothing has
21:31fundamentally changed in the world that
21:32makes that
21:34invalid.
21:34>> Yeah.
21:36I think if it's an old problem, I look
21:38to an example of someone within the last
21:40decade that solved it in an interesting
21:42way, and I'm more likely to copy that,
21:44like in hiring.
21:46Traditionally, companies will they'll
21:48spend hours and weeks or days hiring,
21:50going from round to round to round,
21:52person person person. And if you look at
21:53Y Combinator,
21:55arguably the greatest, you know, startup
21:56incubator in the world, they have
21:58seven-minute interviews. Um and they
22:00said they would make it five minutes,
22:01but it just felt rude, right? And in
22:04their interviews, they really know in
22:05the first three minutes if it's a fit or
22:07not. And then the interview's done. Like
22:09they're either in or they're not.
22:10I I approach hiring the same way. Um I
22:13would much rather um take uh like a a
22:16law of large numbers approach to it and
22:19give
22:20five people 30 days to show what their
22:23skills are as opposed to spending 30
22:25days going all in on one person, because
22:27in my experience, that one person that I
22:29spent 30 days on is not anymore likely
22:31to succeed than those those other five
22:34people that I might be testing.
22:36>> Okay.
22:38And your example of that storage company
22:40you started,
22:40>> Mhm.
22:41>> it sounds like you hit an old problem.
22:43>> Yes, very much so.
22:44>> And you tried to innovate an experiment,
22:46but this was an old problem where the
22:47laws of human beings and how they behave
22:49and businesses going bust was still
22:51pertinent.
22:51>> Yeah, and at the end of our our two-year
22:53experiment, like we looked just like all
22:55of our competitors,
22:56right? So if we would have started
22:58there,
22:59we could have saved two years.
23:00>> And this is what I find is founders
23:03waste years trying to experiment where
23:06old problems are still
23:08um strong and still hold.
23:10>> Yeah.
23:10>> And this is what I missed several of the
23:11mistakes I made in my company was I
23:13should have spent all of my time
23:14experimenting on the new problems
23:15>> Uh-huh.
23:16>> and should have hired people to tell me
23:19um
23:20how to navigate the old problems. Yeah.
23:22What what was your um I think one of the
23:24videos that made you go pretty viral was
23:26your story of
23:28Buckys. We don't know what Buckys is
23:30around the world. I think it's a US
23:31brand.
23:31>> Yeah.
23:32>> But this shows, I think, how you've
23:34always had an orientation to think
23:35slightly differently or innovatively.
23:37>> Yeah.
23:38>> What happened with Buckys?
23:39>> So this was during the time when I was
23:41running that business shipping products
23:42for other companies, right?
23:44Buckys is a gas station brand uh with
23:47only 50 locations. And from those 50
23:49locations, they do billions of dollars
23:51of revenue.
23:52I say gas station, they're between
23:5440,000 80,000 square feet.
23:56>> Wow.
23:56>> They're massive. They have an amazing
23:58brand, an amazing logo, and they just
24:01have a lot of trust from their
24:02customers. But these gas stations are
24:04like they're on the way out to these
24:06road trip destinations. They're out in
24:08the middle of nowhere. And so if you're
24:09if you live in Dallas and you're driving
24:11down to the beach, you're going to stop
24:12by Buckys on the way there and on the
24:13way back, and you're probably going to
24:14spend hundreds of dollars,
24:16right? You're going to fill up the tank,
24:17then you're going to buy shirts and
24:18snacks and all that stuff. So
24:20at the time we were running this
24:21e-commerce fulfillment business, we went
24:24to Buckys. I brought my cousin, my
24:25business partner, um just to kind of
24:27show him the experience.
24:29And we were just having a conversation.
24:30I remember exactly where I was. I was
24:32like under this underpass, this huge
24:34underpass in DFW. We were driving home
24:36and I said, man, these guys must kill it
24:38online. They must sell so much stuff.
24:41Um
24:42>> Why?
24:42>> Because I knew that Disney sells like
24:45billions of dollars of t-shirts on their
24:47website, right? I read a stat recently.
24:49So I kind of just took that data point,
24:51connected it to Bucky's and said, all
24:52right, Bucky's is a fraction of the size
24:54of Disney, but they have the same amount
24:56of brand loyalty. People love their
24:58shirts. You'll see their shirts all over
24:59the world, even though they only have 50
25:01locations like in the Southeast, right?
25:03And so we went to their website and
25:05there was no shop button. There was no
25:06place to buy their stuff.
25:08And I was just like
25:10like all the light bulbs were going off
25:12at once, right? It was like, oh my gosh,
25:14okay.
25:16We need to reach out to them. Like we
25:17need to bring them online. I just had
25:18all these ideas and my cousin is is much
25:21more balanced than I am. He's like the
25:24the operator and I'm like the ADHD crazy
25:26guy, right? So his role is to like calm
25:28me down and he's very good at that. But
25:30I just couldn't be calmed down from
25:32this. I'm like, no, no, no, we got to do
25:34something here.
25:35We're going to buy one of everything.
25:37We're going to hire a photographer to
25:39take pictures of it. We're going to
25:40launch our own Bucky's online store
25:42and we're going to try to go viral. Like
25:45it's viral or bust, right? If we don't
25:46go viral, then I'll just be eating these
25:49unhealthy snacks for the next three
25:50years of my life.
25:52And so we did. We bought one of
25:53everything. Uh cost thousands of
25:54dollars. I brought all four of my kids
25:57and uh we brought it back to our
25:58warehouse. We took pictures of it. We
26:00launched a website um and I emailed all
26:03the reporters I could find uh and one of
26:06them just loved the idea. He ran with
26:09it. And so he reached out to Bucky's for
26:11comment cuz they wouldn't respond to my
26:12cold emails. I wanted to launch this
26:14like with them in tandem, but who am I?
26:16They didn't care about me and I don't
26:17blame them.
26:18And so he wrote this big article about
26:20me. Millions of people read it. All
26:22these other news outlets uh wrote about
26:24it and we did hundreds of thousands of
26:27of dollars our first 30 days organically
26:29from that.
26:30>> How did Bucky's feel
26:31>> about that?
26:32>> They wanted us to make some key changes
26:34to the website. They wanted us to like
26:37basically put disclaimers everywhere
26:39that said we are not Bucky's, we're not
26:41affiliated with Bucky's. They wanted us
26:42to change the name. It had the word
26:44beaver in the name. That's their mascot.
26:47They just they didn't want it to be
26:48confusing at all. So we made all those
26:50changes and then we got like the
26:52unofficial thumbs up from them. They
26:54said we're not going to sign anything,
26:55but like you have our blessing. Um have
26:58fun.
26:59>> And did that website make you a lot of
27:00money?
27:01>> Yeah, it still is. It's been five years.
27:02We still own it 100% of it and it's
27:04going great.
27:05>> And it's made you millions? Uh-huh.
27:09What can someone listening take from
27:11that in terms of
27:13applying that to their own life, finding
27:15opportunities like that out in the
27:16world? Or is that just a one and done?
27:18Is there only one opportunity like that?
27:20>> Okay, so specific
27:22I get asked that question a lot. How
27:23could someone do that with another
27:24brand?
27:26I don't know. If if there was another
27:28brand out there like that, I would be
27:30doing it, right? Trader Joe's is
27:31similar, but they're very litigious.
27:34Um I think that was kind of lightning in
27:36a bottle for that particular experiment
27:39as in launching an online brand for an
27:41in-person business, okay? But people
27:43should not be disheartened hearing that
27:45because
27:46on a macro level, like
27:48people should take their curious ideas
27:52very seriously.
27:53[snorts] They need to shorten the amount
27:55of time spent between having the idea
27:57and doing something about that idea.
27:59>> Why?
28:00>> Because that will strengthen their bias
28:03reaction muscle,
28:04right?
28:05We all have ideas. Some of them good,
28:07some of them bad on a regular basis. We
28:09usually don't do anything about it. It's
28:11just a passing thought, right? Whether
28:12it's a business idea or a hard
28:14conversation I need to have with
28:16something, any idea, right?
28:18But the the the more we shrink the
28:20amount of time between doing something
28:22about that idea and having the idea that
28:24idea, the more often we'll do that and
28:26it it becomes this self-perpetuating
28:28snowball that just compounds. And then
28:31before we know it, we'll get more ideas,
28:33we'll do more about those ideas, we'll
28:35be testing things, we'll be learning
28:36tools, we'll be experimenting and we'll
28:39have a whole portfolio of
28:41businesses.
28:42>> Is there something in your mentality or
28:44perspective though where you walk into a
28:45Buc-ee's and you even think about how
28:47you could do something whereas most
28:48people walk into a Buc-ee's and buy
28:49their stuff and leave? Like is there
28:50something foundational in the way that
28:52you're looking at the world?
28:53>> Yeah, but I don't think I'm any
28:55different.
28:56I think um
28:58I think a lot of people have ideas like
28:59that. Like
29:00you walk into a Buc-ee's and you see
29:02something about something that could be
29:04improved
29:05and people have these passing thoughts
29:06and they move on. I think that
29:09you become an expert at doing something
29:12about those ideas when you do something
29:14about those ideas. You just you get
29:15better at what you do, at what you test.
29:19>> Cuz you've built up some kind of muscle,
29:20which means that you don't really care
29:22about, it seems, failure as much as the
29:24average person. And also in that
29:26particular case
29:28the average person might think, well,
29:29I've got no experience in doing that.
29:30>> Mhm.
29:32No no one has any experience in anything
29:33until they do it, right? Like every
29:35every expert started out as a beginner,
29:38right?
29:40Sometimes though people
29:42try this and they learn, eh,
29:45doesn't give them energy. It's not for
29:46them.
29:47That's okay. Now when they have ideas,
29:49they can know, all right, box checked.
29:52That's not really for me. That
29:53entrepreneurship thing, someone else
29:54needs to do that.
29:55And great, good
29:57all the power to them. I just want
29:58people to answer that question for
30:00themselves. I hate seeing
30:02regret in people's faces. Like I have
30:04friends
30:05that want to start a business. They've
30:07always talked about it and I know they
30:08would be good at it. And I know it just
30:10eats them up and they have really really
30:12good ideas, objectively.
30:14And I I just hate seeing them have that
30:17question for the rest of their lives. I
30:19just want them to to taste
30:21entrepreneurship.
30:24>> Is it for everybody though? You know,
30:25you can think think of all your friends.
30:27>> Yeah.
30:27>> You can probably put them in groups of
30:29this person should, this person
30:30shouldn't.
30:30>> Mhm.
30:31>> And what defines who goes in which
30:33group?
30:35>> To me, it's how far they go in doing
30:39something about that idea.
30:41Because I will have friends that will
30:44text me ideas or talk to me about ideas,
30:46and then I never hear from them again
30:47about that thing.
30:49I don't worry about them,
30:51right? I I feel like there's a selection
30:53bias at play. Like if they really want
30:56to do something about it, they would get
30:57a little further down the line. They'd
30:59follow up with me. They'd say, I did
31:00this thing. Cuz I'll always give them
31:02tips and feedback. You should do this.
31:03You should try this. And they'll follow
31:04up. And then, you know,
31:07at some point along the line, it'll die,
31:08right? But if they don't get any further
31:11than just telling me their idea, then
31:14I don't I don't lose sleep over them.
31:16>> So it's kind of survival It's kind of
31:18sort of self-selecting itself anyway.
31:19>> It is.
31:20>> Entrepreneurship.
31:21>> Yeah, absolutely. But then I have other
31:22friends that are like they'll follow up,
31:23they'll follow up, they'll follow up,
31:25and then and then it dies, which is
31:27okay. A lot of my ideas die, too. And to
31:29me, that's a signal that it was supposed
31:30to die, right? I'll just move on to the
31:32next thing. Um so it's those people that
31:35Maybe it I'm just biased, and they look
31:36more like me, you know?
31:38Um maybe that's not an accurate signal
31:40or not. But if they look more like me,
31:42then that's a signal that they they
31:44should get further down the line and
31:45actually launch something that gets to
31:47revenue. Yeah.
31:48>> In your head, think of one person you
31:49know that should never start a business.
31:51>> Okay.
31:53>> Why did you think of that person without
31:56telling me who they are?
31:57>> Because they
32:00make a lot of money at their job
32:03and they like their job well enough.
32:05They're not miserable.
32:06Um and they're in their late 40s,
32:10and they probably feel like it would be
32:12too big of a risk to start something.
32:13>> And do you objectively agree that it
32:15would be too big of a risk for them?
32:16>> I do.
32:17>> You So you're looking at that on a
32:18risk-reward basis, thinking the reward
32:20doesn't out outweigh the risk here for
32:22you.
32:22>> Yeah.
32:23Yeah, cuz people come to me like hoping
32:25that I'll encourage them to quit their
32:26job, right? Like begging me to do that
32:28without actually begging me.
32:30And I don't want to do that. Like
32:32I I've never had to quit a job. Like I I
32:34started with entrepreneurship, right? So
32:37the thought of being 48 with four kids
32:40and quitting my $400,000 a year job to
32:43test something, it just sounds crazy to
32:45me.
32:46>> On the other hand, think of one person
32:47you know that isn't an entrepreneur but
32:49definitely should be, but you always
32:51think, why don't they do it?
32:52>> Yeah.
32:53>> Why did you think of that person?
32:55>> Because it's a person that
32:57comes to me the most often with ideas
33:00and they're really, really good ideas.
33:02He's an engineer
33:03um and so he sees the world in that way.
33:06Engineers make great entrepreneurs.
33:08Um
33:09and he has a great work ethic.
33:12And he's like mid career but not not so
33:14far along. And I know objectively that
33:17he's not
33:19he's actually quite miserable in his
33:20job.
33:21And I hate that for him because I see
33:23the talent that's there.
33:25And I want him like I think he would
33:27excel and I want to see that dream come
33:30true for him.
33:31>> Why isn't he doing it?
33:33>> I think it it's insecurity.
33:36>> Fear?
33:36>> Yeah.
33:38>> Fear of?
33:42>> Probably fear of just letting go of
33:44something certain that 's provided his
33:46family a nice lifestyle and not getting
33:50that back again ever.
33:51Um
33:53I think that insecurities are at the
33:55root of
33:56our best and our worst selves.
33:58And it can drive us to be our best or
33:59our worst selves um depending on how
34:02self-aware we are about those
34:04insecurities.
34:06>> Is there
34:07a little bit of a flaw in his thinking
34:10in your perspective? Like why is it you
34:12you still even though what he's saying
34:14there about you know what you think he
34:16believes there about security for his
34:18family is true, you still think he
34:20should which suggests that there's some
34:22kind of flaw you see in the way he's
34:23thinking about it.
34:24>> Yeah.
34:26Because he doesn't have to quit his job.
34:29Um there's enough time in the day to do
34:32this on the nights and weekends to to do
34:34enough of it to really prove itself out.
34:37Often times like
34:41whatever our side hustle is, uh
34:44it has a very low ceiling if we're only
34:46working on it
34:47um after hours, right?
34:50Let's say
34:51we're spending 20 hours a week on a side
34:53hustle and it makes us
34:55$50,000 a year, but our job pays us
34:57$200,000 a year and we spend 40 hours a
34:59week on that. One thing that I've
35:01noticed, which is kind of contradictory
35:03to how I feel about quitting something
35:05um is
35:07when we
35:08go from 20 hours a week on our the
35:10$50,000 a year side hustle to 40 hours a
35:12week and we quit the full-time thing,
35:14that $50,000 a year goes to 500,000,
35:18right? We double the amount of hours,
35:19but we 10 times the amount of money that
35:21comes from it. Because of the fact that
35:24we burn the boats, that it has to work,
35:27I just I don't want people to burn the
35:28boats too soon, right? Like there has to
35:31be a pathway. Like let's say our
35:33Facebook ads are converting really well.
35:34We've tested scaling it and they're
35:36profitable and we know what that would
35:38look like, but if we scale it, then
35:40we're going to have more customer
35:41service complaints. We're going to have
35:42to do more architecture to the website,
35:44but we like we see a path to scaling
35:47and it's already profitable and we know
35:48that like probably my boss will take me
35:51back. Like we have kind of these
35:53uh safety nets. That's like the perfect
35:56time to really burn the boats, not when
35:58like we have an idea or we've tested it
35:59a little bit, but not thoroughly. Um
36:01that's too soon in my opinion.
36:03>> And by by burn the boats, you mean the
36:04analogy of I guess some of the the
36:06wartime leaders who would pull up on an
36:08island that they were invading and burn
36:09the boats so that they had no plan B?
36:11>> Mhm. Exactly, yeah, to quit.
36:14>> Do you think that really matters, the
36:15the whole idea of a plan B?
36:17Do you think people should have a plan B
36:18when they embark on entrepreneurship?
36:22>> Can I contradict myself? 100%. All
36:23right, so
36:25the rational Chris,
36:27Chris with four kids, says
36:29absolutely. Like you got to be a dad,
36:31you got to be a husband, you got to
36:32provide for your family, right?
36:34Um and again, there's so many tools out
36:36there for testing, for scaling, for
36:38outsourcing. We can find a business
36:40partner to help pick up the slack. We
36:41can use our kids, we can use our spouse,
36:43whatever. There's so many ways to really
36:45vet something out before quitting that
36:46we don't have to quit.
36:48But,
36:50on the other side of my mouth,
36:52there's been um two times in my
36:54entrepreneurial career when someone
36:57burned the boats for me,
36:58right? I pull up to an island and so
37:00I've got my plan B and I'm testing this
37:03business. This business is profitable,
37:04it's paying the bills.
37:06And then someone else in the middle of
37:07the night
37:09they snuck out, they burned my boats. I
37:11wake up and I'm like, whoa, where's my
37:12plan B?
37:13I wasn't ready to burn those boats yet.
37:16Um
37:17and plan A
37:18just freaking thrives,
37:21right?
37:22And it's not so much because of the fact
37:24that I don't have a safety net anymore,
37:25but it's because that event put a chip
37:27on my shoulder
37:29that makes me want to to prove those bad
37:32guys wrong, right? To oversimplify.
37:34Those guys that burned my boat.
37:36>> Toxic motivation.
37:37>> Exactly. That's a that's a good way to
37:38put it. To show them I didn't need those
37:40boats.
37:41I'm not going back, right? This island
37:43is better than where I came from.
37:45>> I remember reading about a study on plan
37:47B's where they got a group of students,
37:49two groups, and then they told them to
37:51do a puzzle to win a treat. And then in
37:53one of the groups they told them that
37:55they could get this treat at a vending
37:57machine down the hallway if they if they
37:59wanted it after.
38:00And the group that didn't understand
38:02they could get the same reward
38:04from a plan B
38:05>> Mhm.
38:06>> worked significantly harder to complete
38:08that puzzle.
38:08>> Mm.
38:09>> So there's something in the human psyche
38:10of when you know that you could
38:14get the reward in another way when you
38:15have a plan B, we work less hard at the
38:18plan A.
38:19>> 100%
38:20>> Logically maybe we should,
38:22you know, we're practical and
38:24un responsible,
38:26remove the plan B from our mind.
38:28>> Yeah.
38:29Yeah, I just like
38:31I I can't think of any stories from
38:33people in my sphere of influence that
38:36have
38:37tested something,
38:38quit the plan A,
38:40and then
38:41plan B just failed. And like they just
38:43lost everything. Like surely that's
38:44happened, right? That does happen when
38:46people like prematurely quit.
38:49But in my experience, it's just
38:51it doesn't happen. Like it has the
38:53opposite effect. It becomes this huge
38:55motivating factor. And when they quit, I
38:57ask them, like how do you feel?
38:59Are you freaking out?
39:01And it's always
39:02always I'm so excited right now. Like
39:05I'm going to go all in on this. Like
39:07this has to work. And it does. It just
39:09does.
39:10>> A lot of people are looking for passive
39:12income from side hustles. And I wanted
39:15what your your opinion was on passive
39:16income because it's a word that comes up
39:18so often in the comment section of this
39:20channel. But when we're doing sort of
39:21sentiment analysis on what people are
39:23what they're interested in, passive
39:24income seems to be a bit of a buzzword.
39:26>> Yeah.
39:28It's the silver bullet, right? It's like
39:30it's the it's the financial Ozempic, you
39:33could say.
39:33>> What is passive income? How would how
39:35would one define that?
39:36>> I would define it as income that you
39:38receive um
39:40that you don't have to continually put
39:42effort towards. Like uh
39:44buying treasuries, earning 4% on on your
39:46money, and you don't do anything, and
39:48you just get paid.
39:50And it's it's very hard to find,
39:51especially early on. Like we have to be
39:53willing to create active income, sweaty
39:56income, ugly income, like
39:58by whatever means necessary. And the
40:01more we do that, the longer we do that,
40:03the more realistic true passive income
40:06actually is.
40:09>> Sweaty ugly income.
40:10>> Yeah.
40:11>> Give me an example of some sweaty ugly
40:13income that anyone listening right now
40:15could could create. What are your
40:17favorite examples of non-obvious
40:19businesses that people have started that
40:20have resulted in passive sweaty ugly
40:22income?
40:22>> Yeah.
40:24I mean, most things that I've started
40:26have been just that.
40:28I had a uh
40:30a concierge car buying business.
40:32Um
40:33>> Concierge car buying business. What's
40:34that?
40:34>> So picture a traditional car dealership,
40:36a used car dealership. You got to get
40:38your dealer's permit that enables you
40:41legally to go to the auctions and buy
40:43cars wholesale, put them on your lot and
40:44sell them.
40:45So I did all the regulatory stuff. I got
40:48my my dealer's permit.
40:49But then I would go to individuals and
40:51they would say, I want a 2024 Sequoia. I
40:54want it to be blue, under 30,000 miles,
40:56and I would just go to the auction and
40:57buy it for them for like $700 fee. So
41:00they get wholesale, they save money, I
41:02make money, I don't have to bear the
41:03inventory risk, and I can buy exactly
41:05what they want.
41:07Um,
41:08this sounds great, right? On paper.
41:09People do that business successfully. I
41:11didn't invent it. I copied it, right?
41:13I hated it. Uh, I was breaking down on
41:15the side of the road driving these
41:17things back from the auction. I'm not a
41:18car guy. I don't care about cars. I
41:20don't work on cars.
41:21It's not my passion. That was ugly. It
41:24was hot in Texas. I was standing out on
41:26the blacktop. I was making money. It was
41:28profitable. And I got to the point where
41:30I just like
41:31quit it and just shut it down, moved on
41:33to something else. Um, that was very
41:36active. It was not scalable on the
41:38surface. It was ugly. I hated it. And so
41:41I pivoted because I had a plan B. I
41:43didn't have to do that, right? Um,
41:45that's one example. Uh, if someone likes
41:47cars, it's it's a actually a great
41:49business. Like I know a gentleman in
41:51Alabama that makes a lot of money doing
41:52that, right?
41:53For me, it was it was not great.
41:55>> So how important then is passion in this
41:57equation? Like how important it is for
41:58you if you to love the thing to be
42:00successful at it in your view?
42:02>> I think you need to fall in love with
42:03business, with commerce. And if you can
42:06love entrepreneurship, turning $1 into
42:08two, and that like if you could focus on
42:11that being your passion, then anything
42:13that falls underneath that
42:15you should win at, right? But
42:18I I like to say
42:20follow the profit, p r o f i t, um,
42:24until you can afford to follow your
42:25passion, right? Because if we're trying
42:28to follow our passion from day one,
42:30we're probably not ever going to get
42:31there because the statistical likelihood
42:33that what we love and what makes us
42:35money overlaps in the beginning is
42:38almost zero. So ignore passion
42:41for a time.
42:42Try to build your passion around
42:44commerce,
42:45um, and then start anything. And then
42:48once you're able to have more passive
42:50income, then start things that
42:52passionate about, like in the in the
42:53actual industry that you're passionate
42:55about.
42:57>> Persistence.
42:58Persistence is obviously going to create
43:00repetitions to like understand the
43:01problem, to learn more, to you know. So
43:04I I wonder
43:05as it relates to passion and
43:06persistence, they seem
43:08sort of inextricably linked. Something
43:10I'm more passionate about, I'm more
43:11likely to continue even when the rewards
43:14don't show up.
43:14>> Yeah. Like my car my car business,
43:16right? I had no passion for cars. And I
43:19had another business that was doing
43:20great.
43:21So so I abandoned that. Um but
43:24people think that like
43:26people sometimes look at themselves as
43:28lazy or they're not a hard worker. And
43:30so
43:31they're just they're not confident that
43:32they could do this. But there's like
43:35everyone is a hard worker.
43:37Everyone on this planet has the same DNA
43:39that enables them to work hard. But the
43:41problem is what they're working on
43:43probably gives them no energy, right?
43:45They're probably not passionate about
43:46it. So what am I passionate about? Well,
43:49you got to you got to test everything.
43:50We have to try new things. We have to
43:52take that curious question and turn it
43:54into a business. Maybe that's fun. Maybe
43:56it's not, right? We need more surface
43:57area for finding what our passions
43:59actually are cuz we might think that
44:01like like I love woodworking, right? I
44:03don't have to build a business around
44:04that cuz I love business, right? So I
44:06can build a business around anything.
44:08But if I got super hung up on like I
44:09cannot make a profit from this
44:11woodworking business,
44:13um then I would fail at entrepreneurship
44:15if I started there, right? Whereas if I
44:17approached this from
44:19um the angle of
44:20all right, I like woodworking. What else
44:21do I like?
44:22Maybe I like running. Maybe I like
44:24cooking. Maybe I like short-form videos.
44:27And I just start trying all those new
44:28things and eventually
44:30I'm going to have enough surface area
44:31for testing that I'm going to find
44:33things where um have you heard of the
44:35Ikigai principle?
44:36>> Mhm.
44:37>> Right?
44:38So what you love,
44:39what you're good at,
44:41what the world needs,
44:42and what you can charge for, right?
44:45The overlap of that is the sweet spot.
44:47That's what's scalable. That's what you
44:48can do until you die. But if you get
44:50super hung up on that on day one like
44:52I'm just not passionate about that, like
44:54you're never going to find it. Like
44:55you're going to be in that job forever.
44:57>> My career follows the same same arc,
44:59which is I tried tons of things and then
45:01I built this marketing business and then
45:03that became more of a product business
45:05and grew and I didn't love it. Like it
45:07wasn't my passion to do um to help like
45:10Coca-Cola sell more cans of Coke or like
45:12you know Uber sell more Ubers
45:13necessarily. That wasn't like my passion
45:15in life. However, it taught me a bunch
45:17of skills
45:18which then in when I quit that business
45:20and I spent some time in psychedelics,
45:22DJing, building software, Web3, you name
45:24it um I came out on the other side and
45:26could ask myself that Ikigai question,
45:28which is of all the things that I have
45:29tried what is the thing that I would do
45:31it like really irrespective of money?
45:33Now I had that luxury to do that and
45:34actually in 2020 the answer was this.
45:37>> Mhm.
45:38>> Like this was the answer. This answer
45:39was I I literally moved to London from
45:41New York
45:42and found a place without viewing it
45:44properly that looked like this because I
45:46thought this would be a good podcast set
45:48and moved into that place called Jack
45:50and then we started about five five
45:53years ago um doing doing this weekly and
45:56it's become a business off the back of
45:57it.
45:57>> Yeah.
45:58>> But I didn't have that luxury at the
46:00start. If I tried that from day one, I
46:01wouldn't have had a the skills to know
46:03how to scale an audience. I wouldn't
46:05have had the flexibility to
46:07buy all these cameras
46:09which cost like 50 grand or whatever at
46:10the start.
46:11Um so I and I do think some people
46:12sometimes get that inverted.
46:14>> Yeah, and you you're not distracted
46:16anymore, right? You're not looking for
46:17the next DJ thing or like
46:19you found it. [clears throat] You're
46:20here, right? Now you're focused on
46:21scaling that's like people get so hung
46:23up on focus or lack thereof and they
46:26just beat themselves up over it. But in
46:28my experience like a lack of focus is a
46:30signal that
46:32there's something else out there, right?
46:34That maybe we shouldn't be focusing on
46:35that thing cuz you probably worked on
46:37things that had perfect product-market
46:39fit and were just crushing and you
46:42weren't thinking about starting a DJing
46:43business at that point, right? You were
46:45all in on this one thing. But and the
46:47times when you were working on something
46:49and you're like maybe I'll try this,
46:49maybe I'll try this and you beat
46:50yourself up you're like oh I'm focused
46:52focused focused. Like let's actually pay
46:54attention to those signals. Why am I
46:56distracted from this thing?
46:58So that's I don't know if that's just me
47:00coping with my own ADHD or if that's
47:03actually a true principle, but I I try
47:05to lend some credence to those signals
47:07of distraction that I get on a regular
47:09basis.
47:10>> Yeah, I have a a Sunday shelf
47:12which is just a digital board on my
47:15Monday board where when I have ideas
47:18that like captivate me at 11:00 p.m. at
47:20night one night, instead of trying to
47:21act on them immediately because I think
47:22I'm in some respects like you, I put it
47:24on the Sunday shelf
47:25>> Mhm.
47:26>> and um I wait and see.
47:28>> Yeah.
47:28>> I wait and see how much it pulls at me
47:30to come to the shelf.
47:32And then sometimes it comes off the
47:33shelf, I get a little bit of the way
47:34down, I discover that actually there's
47:36something I didn't realize and then I
47:37quit. But then there's this You know
47:38when you think about the like the
47:39excitement arc of a new idea, you have
47:42the like initial surge of excitement
47:44like this is the best thing ever, I'm
47:45going to become a billionaire, why has
47:46no one ever thought of this before, and
47:48then you kind of get into it and you get
47:49into that sort of valley of oh
47:51this is a terrible idea, I'm an idiot.
47:53>> Yep.
47:54>> If I can come out of that valley, if if
47:56something pulls me up out of that
47:57valley, then I think it's worth
47:58pursuing.
47:58>> Yeah.
47:59That's a good way of looking at it. The
48:00I The valley of despair or something,
48:02that's what they call it.
48:03>> Yeah.
48:03>> Yeah.
48:05>> Do you follow a similar sort of path
48:07with idea your ideas?
48:09>> It's funny cuz I My kind of framework is
48:14if I have an idea, am I thinking about
48:16it still two weeks later? For whatever
48:19reason, that's just my timeline, two
48:20weeks.
48:21I had an idea yesterday and I was at the
48:23airport, I was excited about it and I
48:25was doing research.
48:27I felt like I forgot about it, right?
48:28It's Who cares, you know? But I have
48:30ideas where I just cannot get it out of
48:32my head and I'll see something out there
48:34in the world that adds to the idea and I
48:36tell my friend about it and I I send
48:38these manic voicemails or these manic
48:40voice notes to my friends about it and
48:43I'm still thinking about it two weeks
48:44later. That's my signal that there's
48:45actually something here.
48:47Um yeah.
48:49>> You used the word validating earlier on
48:51when you're talking about these ideas
48:53and I I think this is something that
48:56could really really help a lot of people
48:57who have a lot of ideas is this idea of
48:59trying to validate your ideas as fast as
49:00possible.
49:00>> Mhm.
49:01>> How might one validate an idea and can
49:03you give me an example of an idea that
49:04you have validated? What does validation
49:06mean?
49:07>> Mhm. [clears throat]
49:08Yeah, so I like to see people get joy
49:13from my product or service, right? Not
49:15just like, oh, it's good. Like let say
49:16I'm selling a food product. It tastes
49:18good.
49:19It's good.
49:19[clears throat] Okay.
49:21People might buy this,
49:22but I'm not going to have product market
49:23fit. I'm going to be pushing a boulder
49:25up the hill, right?
49:26But if people are like, oh my gosh, this
49:29is the best thing I've ever had. Where
49:31did you make this? How did you make
49:32this? It lights up in their face.
49:34That's an example of a validation in my
49:37case, right?
49:39Same industry, food product,
49:41completely different reactions, right?
49:43So
49:44one specific example is um
49:47my wife has a cookie bar business,
49:51right?
49:51Square cookies. And they're amazing. And
49:55we're not trying to scale it. We don't
49:56want to scale it. It's a way to teach
49:57our kids entrepreneurship and we love
49:59it.
49:59But the best way to validate this was
50:02going to our local farmers market and
50:04just posting up and just giving people
50:07samples and just watching them, right?
50:09What do they say versus how do they
50:11react? And is it the same?
50:13>> What do you mean by that?
50:14>> Well, sometimes we try to use the
50:16internet in places where it's it's not
50:18needful, right? She sold these online,
50:21right? She shipped them to friends and
50:22family across the country like they're
50:23great. We love them. Okay, I didn't see
50:25you eat it. I don't know how you
50:26actually love it. Are you saying that
50:28because you're my mom, right? Or you're
50:30you're my friend?
50:31But when you solicit feedback on your
50:33product or service in person, even if
50:35it's like an internet tool or an app, in
50:37person makes all the difference.
50:39You want to take note of what they say
50:42and take note of their body language and
50:44how they react when they experience your
50:46product or service, right? And if all
50:49three of those things overlap, then
50:51either they're a psychopath and they're
50:53just lying for no good reason or you
50:56have something really special on your
50:57hands. Uh so that what we did with her
50:59cookie bar business and um and they
51:01loved it. And you can do that with any
51:03business. It doesn't have to be food.
51:05>> And what does validation mean? It's it's
51:07checking if the market gives a
51:08about the thing you're making as fast as
51:10you can.
51:11>> Yeah.
51:12Yeah.
51:12Um, I like to kind of picture a, you
51:15know,
51:16a boulder up a hill, right? And most
51:19people in their businesses, even
51:20businesses that are working,
51:22there are two steps forward, one step
51:23back. Two steps forward, one step back.
51:25And that's okay. Like that's not a bad
51:27thing.
51:28But
51:29in my experience, 5% of the time
51:31I'll have a business where the boulder
51:33is chasing me. Like I'm trying to not
51:35die
51:36because this boulder is chasing me down
51:37a hill. And that boulder in this case
51:39represents customers, demand, right?
51:41Like I can't sleep because I'm
51:43fulfilling orders. I'm answering emails
51:45like I'm not getting distracted by the
51:47next shiny object.
51:49That is validation. That's product
51:51market fit in my experience. You don't
51:53have to have that to launch. I don't
51:54want people to misunderstand. Um, but if
51:57you have that, like you have something
51:58very special and you need to go all in
52:00on that thing.
52:01>> There was a book published uh several
52:03years ago called The Lean Startup, which
52:06talks about this idea of just like
52:08testing an MVP as quick quickly as you
52:09possibly can.
52:10>> Mhm.
52:11>> Can you explain that to the audience who
52:13probably have ideas, but in their head
52:14are thinking, well, I've got to quit my
52:16job. I'm going to have to raise money.
52:18I'm going to have to spend two to three
52:19years building something to figure out
52:20if this is a good idea or not. What is
52:22the alternative approach that you adopt
52:24when you're trying to stress test an
52:25idea quickly?
52:26>> Yeah. So if I had to pick one tool, I
52:29mean it's one that
52:30one in four humans use every day,
52:32and it's Facebook, right?
52:34You've got Facebook groups,
52:36you've got WhatsApp,
52:37um Instagram, Facebook Marketplace,
52:40Facebook Pages, uh Facebook Ads, right?
52:43Let's just say there's six different
52:44meta products, Facebook products. That's
52:46everything you need right there, right?
52:48Why why don't you give me an example of
52:50just a random business and I'll I'll
52:52tell you or the the audience how they
52:55could validate that with a Facebook
52:57product.
52:58>> Okay.
53:00Um,
53:01I'm thinking of starting a
53:07creatine brand for
53:09women that
53:11has
53:12makes creatine taste good.
53:14>> Okay. All right.
53:16Are we talking powder, gummy? What form
53:18factor?
53:18>> I don't know.
53:19>> Okay. Well, let's let's try both. Okay?
53:22So I'm going to do something that seems
53:23very non-obvious and probably won't
53:25work, but it's the lowest amount of
53:26friction. I'm going to take a
53:28description for that and I'm going to
53:30use Nano Banana, ChatGPT, any of the AI
53:33image generators to come up with what
53:35the product could look like, right? In
53:37both a gummy form and a powder form,
53:39okay? Then I'm going to go to Facebook
53:41Marketplace.
53:41>> You you're just going to post a photo?
53:43>> Yeah, I'm just going to say like women's
53:45creatine brand actually takes tastes
53:47good, right? Like did you know that
53:48creatine improves cognitive function or
53:50whatever? Just your standard pitch. I
53:52could even use AI to generate it. It
53:54doesn't really matter at this point.
53:55And I'm going to post it to Facebook
53:57Marketplace simply because that's the
53:58lowest amount of friction to get some
54:01level of validation or not, right?
54:03Because in my experience, focus is
54:05overrated
54:07and momentum is underrated,
54:09right? And so you could have told me any
54:12idea.
54:13And my first step that I tell you to do
54:15is going to be something very very low
54:16friction because I want you to get
54:19something back from the world, right?
54:21Because the most likely way to sell that
54:22product is with meta ads, right? But
54:24there's a lot of friction there. Like
54:26it's it's hard to use.
54:28So you're going to be like, okay, you're
54:29going to go ChatGPT, how do I use meta
54:30ads and
54:31you're going to burn out and you're
54:32going to have be on to something else by
54:33tomorrow. But that might be an amazing
54:35idea, right? So I'm going to tell you to
54:37go to Facebook Marketplace even though
54:38people don't sell creatine on Facebook
54:40Marketplace.
54:41And then we're going to see,
54:43you know, Facebook gives us like three
54:44stats when you post something to
54:45Facebook Marketplace, clicks and then
54:48how many people that reach out and then
54:50how many views, okay?
54:52So I'm going to post one Facebook
54:53Marketplace ad
54:55for the gummies.
54:57Different picture. It will look like
54:58gummies.
54:59Um basically same headline, same
55:01benefit, same description. Post to
55:03Facebook in the same local market with
55:05the same radius. Don't want to change
55:06any variables.
55:08And then I 'm going to open a Google
55:09sheet, and I'm going to say, how many
55:11views, how many clicks, how many
55:13messages for that ad.
55:15Then I'm going to do the same thing.
55:16Take the same features, the same
55:17benefits. Different picture cuz this
55:19one's powder.
55:20Post it in the same market with the same
55:21radius to Facebook Marketplace and have
55:23a new column
55:24um views,
55:26reach outs, and um clicks, right?
55:29And then I'm going to watch
55:31and I'm going to see what's getting more
55:32clicks. And I'm going to know within 2
55:34hours
55:35where there's more demand.
55:37Now does that little sample size
55:38indicate
55:39like what form factor I should go all in
55:41on? Not necessarily, but it's something.
55:43It's a relevant data point, right?
55:45There's not very likely to be a large
55:47amount of people searching for creatine
55:49gummies on Facebook Marketplace, but it
55:50doesn't matter cuz there's 2 billion
55:51people using it, right?
55:53So we're just trying to capture some of
55:55that traffic.
55:56So
55:57I'm going to do that with two ads, and
55:58then after a day or two, I'm going to
56:01boost those two ads, put $10 behind each
56:04of them to see how my results differ.
56:06Does it make any difference? Do I get a
56:08lot more clicks, a lot more views, or is
56:09it just wasted?
56:11And then I'm going to um
56:13I'm going to probably post like 10 more
56:15ads of like different photos, different
56:17headings, different descriptions,
56:19different price points, and then put all
56:21those in a Google sheet and track it.
56:23All right, now I have a lot of data.
56:25Now concurrently, so while I'm doing all
56:28these things, I'm going to go to
56:29Facebook groups and I'm going to join
56:32Facebook groups like moms who work out,
56:34moms who love creatine, moms who love
56:36rucking, ultra runner moms, like healthy
56:39moms, whatever. I'm going to join all
56:40these groups
56:42and just start doing searches for
56:43creatine, gummies, powders, price
56:46points, vendors, websites, and just
56:49start like
56:50pulling pieces of data out of out of the
56:52atmosphere, right? And I'm going to put
56:53that in my spreadsheet.
56:55And I want to wait till the Facebook
56:56Marketplace tests are done. I want to do
56:57that at the same time. Then I'm going to
56:59start learning Facebook ads cuz
57:00everything I've told you to do so far
57:03takes like 2 hours. Let's say we have an
57:04afternoon to dedicate to this, right?
57:06Then I'm going to learn Facebook ads,
57:08and I'm going to watch a YouTube video
57:09about, you know, how to get Facebook ads
57:11up in 10 minutes.
57:12>> How
57:12>> important is it to understand Facebook
57:14ads? And how long would it take me to
57:16get a sufficient understanding of
57:17Facebook ads?
57:18>> You could be proficient in a couple days
57:22if you if you had like one thing to sell
57:24and you just wanted to go all in on that
57:26thing, um and you actually learned by
57:28launching ads and not just learning, not
57:30just endlessly watching YouTube videos,
57:32you could be fairly proficient within a
57:35couple days, easily.
57:37>> Do you think that's a skill everybody
57:38should have?
57:39>> Absolutely.
57:40I mean, Facebook ads are like the
57:42infinite money glitch. It's just like a
57:44a magic money machine. It's the reason
57:46they're a trillion dollar company.
57:48Um
57:49it's like a cheat code.
57:50Yeah, it's a we should know Facebook ads
57:52like we know how to write emails. Like
57:54we should know Facebook ads like we know
57:55how to build websites or to do anything.
57:58It should be foundational.
58:01>> Hm.
58:03I wonder how many people actually have
58:04that skill.
58:05>> Very few. That's why there's so many ad
58:07agencies charging a lot of money.
58:10>> And then so you've got the data back
58:11into your spreadsheet on this creatine
58:14situation. How do you then make a
58:15decision whether this is something worth
58:16pursuing?
58:17>> Yeah, then I would go find like a a
58:20co-packer
58:21>> What's a co-packer?
58:22>> It's a company that will take my idea
58:24and put it into a physical form,
58:26right? Um I'd find like a supplement
58:29company that can actually make this and
58:31I would
58:31tell it roughly like what I'm thinking
58:33and then ask for samples. And then I
58:35would use those samples to go get
58:37feedback from people in person, right?
58:40But I wouldn't get those samples until I
58:41got feedback from all these Facebook
58:43tests telling me what form factor, what
58:44price point, what color, what flavor, um
58:47etc. And then I would go to a farmer's
58:49market and actually have people try it.
58:52>> I've heard so many founders speak to me
58:53and say, why didn't this particular ad
58:55that I ran on this platform work for me?
58:58Maybe the copy wasn't good, the creative
58:59wasn't strong. But usually the problem
59:01is they're not having the right
59:02conversation because that ad never
59:03reached the right person. And if you're
59:05in B2B marketing, that is much of the
59:07game. And this is where LinkedIn ads
59:09solves that problem for you. Their
59:11targeting is ridiculously specific. You
59:14can target by job title, seniority,
59:16company size, industry, and even
59:18someone's skill set. And their network
59:20includes over a billion professionals.
59:23About 130 million of them are decision
59:25makers. So when you use LinkedIn Ads,
59:27you're putting your brand in front of
59:29the right people. And LinkedIn Ads also
59:31drive the highest B2B return on ad spend
59:33across all ad networks in my experience.
59:35If you want to give them a try, head
59:37over to linkedin.com/diary.
59:40And when you spend $250 on your first
59:43LinkedIn Ads campaign, you'll get an
59:45extra $250 credit from me for the next
59:48one. That's
59:54>> I've heard you say that there's various
59:55types of entrepreneurs. There's the sort
59:57of zero to one entrepreneur who's good
59:59at starting things. There's the
1:00:00maintainer, and then there's the
1:00:01finisher.
1:00:02>> Mhm.
1:00:02>> Which one are you?
1:00:03>> I'm a starter. Yeah, through and
1:00:05through.
1:00:07I
1:00:08if I stay in a business too long, it all
1:00:11falls apart,
1:00:12right? Just objectively.
1:00:14So I need to hand off the reins at a
1:00:16very specific point, or I need to have a
1:00:18partner from the outset that knows me,
1:00:21my strengths and my weaknesses, um that
1:00:23just takes over at a certain point.
1:00:26So I like to say there are starters,
1:00:28maintainers, and finishers. A starter
1:00:31could be called like a visionary. And
1:00:33not as like a backhanded compliment way,
1:00:35but someone an idea guy, right? Not just
1:00:37a business idea guy, but like a
1:00:39marketing idea guy. Uh let's change the
1:00:41subject line to this idea guy. Like
1:00:44an idea machine, right? That's a
1:00:46visionary. And then you have the
1:00:48maintainer, which would be an operator.
1:00:50That's a guy that just wakes up every
1:00:52day and loves tweaking little things and
1:00:54making small improvements,
1:00:56uh process oriented, someone that loves
1:00:59growing something and just fixing little
1:01:01problems all day, right? And then you
1:01:04have a finisher, which is like a deal
1:01:05guy, right? That's the guy that's a
1:01:07super connector. Uh he likes to Oh, you
1:01:10need to talk to Barry, and then he calls
1:01:11him, he connects him, and like he just
1:01:13gets a lot of energy from connecting
1:01:15deals, coming up with creative deals for
1:01:18an exit, for a sale, putting people
1:01:20together, hiring the right people,
1:01:22seeing something to its completion.
1:01:25But I'm definitely in the first camp.
1:01:27>> Is it possible to be all three?
1:01:29>> Yeah, when you're all three, you're Mark
1:01:31Zuckerberg.
1:01:32I mean, truly. Like you start something
1:01:34from scratch and you see it to a
1:01:35trillion dollars.
1:01:37There's been like I think there have
1:01:39been three people on the planet that
1:01:40have brought something from zero to a
1:01:42trillion.
1:01:43Jensen Huang in video,
1:01:46Elon Musk, and Mark Zuckerberg. I think
1:01:49like even Bill Gates, even Steve Jobs I
1:01:52might be wrong. Yeah, but even Steve
1:01:54Jobs got out long before they hit a
1:01:55trillion market cap.
1:01:56>> But a billion a lot of people
1:01:57[clears throat] get from zero to a
1:01:58billion.
1:01:59>> that's not nothing.
1:02:01Also very impressive, but when you get
1:02:03all three, that's what you get.
1:02:05>> One of the things that I find really
1:02:06interesting about your story is you
1:02:08you've started what is it 75 80
1:02:09businesses?
1:02:10>> Mhm.
1:02:11>> When I
1:02:13speak to people like Kevin O'Leary who
1:02:15have worked with some of the greatest
1:02:15entrepreneurs to ever live like Steve
1:02:17Jobs and he's very [clears throat]
1:02:18familiar with Elon Musk,
1:02:21they talk to me about focus.
1:02:23>> Mhm.
1:02:24>> And he says to me that the great thing
1:02:26about Steve Jobs is he was 80% signal
1:02:29and 20% noise. I.e. 80% of his time he
1:02:32was focused on the most important thing
1:02:34and he was brutal about not entertaining
1:02:36anything else.
1:02:37>> Mhm.
1:02:37>> Johnny Ives has famously said that the
1:02:39one thing Steve Jobs was most known for
1:02:41is his remarkable ability to focus. He
1:02:43would literally ask you what have you
1:02:44said no to in order to focus on the most
1:02:46important thing.
1:02:48I think about Mark Zuckerberg and his
1:02:50unbelievable ability to focus. I
1:02:52remember several people at Meta, but
1:02:54also I think it's a public story telling
1:02:55me that when he realized he was late to
1:02:57mobile, he refused to take any meetings
1:02:59about anything other than mobile. Like
1:03:01extreme levels of focus.
1:03:02>> Mhm.
1:03:03>> And then Kevin O'Leary from Shark Tank
1:03:04said the same to me about Elon Musk. He
1:03:06says Elon Musk is the only person that I
1:03:07think operates close to 100% signal,
1:03:09which is he and I interviewed Walter
1:03:11Isaacson, his biographer, and he said
1:03:13Elon will sit in a meeting and if people
1:03:15aren't talking about something that is
1:03:16the most important thing, he'll
1:03:17completely zone out. And then the minute
1:03:19he hears something that he considers to
1:03:21be the most important thing, it's like
1:03:22he snaps into reality, and he takes
1:03:24control, and he's deep into the detail.
1:03:26And I it sits in contradiction to a lot
1:03:28of the the narrative of like lots of
1:03:31side hustles, lots of businesses, do as
1:03:33many things as you can.
1:03:34How do you But you've both kind of You
1:03:36know, you've had to create a life for
1:03:37yourself where you're you're a
1:03:38millionaire and you're free in that
1:03:40regard.
1:03:42But when I look at the biggest companies
1:03:43in the world, there's this like There
1:03:45appears to be obsessive focus.
1:03:46>> Yeah.
1:03:49I love that question. I
1:03:50I think that all else equal,
1:03:53the guy who focuses more is more likely
1:03:55to be a billionaire.
1:03:56But
1:03:57back to momentum, right? The person that
1:04:00keeps and has and maintains momentum and
1:04:02has gets energy from what they do,
1:04:05they're more likely to be a millionaire
1:04:06by the than the average person, right? I
1:04:09I genuinely have no desire to be a
1:04:11billionaire.
1:04:13Genuinely. If I get there, cool.
1:04:15But I don't want to leave my kids tens
1:04:16of millions of dollars anyway.
1:04:18I know where I get most of my energy
1:04:20from, right? I have a lot of surface
1:04:22area for this. I've tried the focus.
1:04:23I've tried
1:04:24having a board. I don't want any of
1:04:26that. Genuinely. I don't, right? So if
1:04:30my life with hyperfocused Chris looks
1:04:33like
1:04:34billion-dollar exits, reporting to a
1:04:36board,
1:04:37being chairman of the board, being CEO,
1:04:39sitting in meetings all day, that's
1:04:41miserable, Chris, right? And if I'm not
1:04:43going to If I don't want to leave a ton
1:04:45of money to my kids anyway,
1:04:47then why am I making Chris miserable so
1:04:50my fourth-grade grandkids can be rich
1:04:52instead of just my second-grade
1:04:53grandkids?
1:04:54Like that's that's genuinely how I look
1:04:56at it. I'm One of my superpowers is my
1:04:58my long-term perspective, right? I think
1:05:00of things on an eternal scale.
1:05:02And if I have to have a miserable life
1:05:04so my kids in year 2300
1:05:08can still be wealthy,
1:05:10forget that. Like I don't I don't
1:05:12I don't want them to have all that money
1:05:13anyway, you know? So I want to live an
1:05:15awesome life where I'm a good and
1:05:16present father. And to me, that looks
1:05:18like focusing less, not more.
1:05:21>> What if you focused for the next 10
1:05:23years, you made it to a billion dollars
1:05:25on one thing? And then, because you've
1:05:27done that, you can take even more sort
1:05:30of experimental bets
1:05:33with higher risk and more enjoyment and
1:05:35more sort of pleasure-centric bets over
1:05:36the next 40, 50, 60 years of the rest of
1:05:39your life.
1:05:39>> Yeah.
1:05:40I just don't think that that juice would
1:05:42be worth the squeeze.
1:05:44I think that those bigger bets that I
1:05:45take will just amount to more meetings
1:05:49and more travel and more time away from
1:05:51my kids. And
1:05:53I don't like
1:05:55It might sound controversial. Like I'm
1:05:56I'm not trying to change the world.
1:05:58Like I want to help people start
1:05:59businesses and I can do that with my
1:06:01iPhone.
1:06:02Uh and that will change the world,
1:06:03right? But I'm not trying to solve world
1:06:05hunger. I think that's someone else's
1:06:06problem to solve. And so I I just want
1:06:08to be a good dad and work on really cool
1:06:10things. And
1:06:11it's been a it's been a grind to get
1:06:13here, right? Like I've had more years
1:06:16with zero income than I've had
1:06:19up years, right?
1:06:20But my up years have more than
1:06:22compensated for my down years. So what
1:06:24you're looking at today is the end
1:06:25result of 17 years of a lot of testing.
1:06:29Like a very patient wife that was
1:06:31unquestioning and unwavering and
1:06:33extremely loyal, which I could not have
1:06:35done it without. Um and so there were a
1:06:38lot of periods in my life where I beat
1:06:40myself up over that lack of focus. I
1:06:42went and got my MBA because of my lack
1:06:43of focus. I finished my undergrad
1:06:45because of my lack of focus. Like
1:06:47getting a full-time job has never really
1:06:49been off the table until the last five
1:06:51or so years. So I've I've never been
1:06:53unwilling to get a job or to focus. Uh
1:06:56and I probably did it the hard way,
1:06:57honestly. Um but I'm to the point now
1:07:00where I don't feel the need to focus at
1:07:02all on one thing.
1:07:04>> Did you ever feel guilty
1:07:06because of the situation you put your
1:07:08family or your partner in?
1:07:10>> Yeah.
1:07:12Uh more than once. Yeah. More than many
1:07:14times.
1:07:17>> Give me an example.
1:07:18>> I spent
1:07:21I spent 18 months working on a project,
1:07:24um,
1:07:26that had no cash flow along the way with
1:07:29the hope of a big payout.
1:07:31Um, and we were making no income, right?
1:07:34And I was focused on this one thing. And
1:07:36that is kind of the downside of focus is
1:07:38if you focus on the wrong thing, it can
1:07:39really come back to bite you, right?
1:07:41But to me, this was objectively the
1:07:42right thing. It was showing all the
1:07:44signals it was growing. Um,
1:07:46we we had like a few rental homes, we
1:07:48had some assets, and I was selling those
1:07:51things so my family could maintain their
1:07:53quality of life, right? So I felt
1:07:55guilty, but I was also insulating them
1:07:58from feeling the the pinch that I was
1:08:01feeling in the office, right?
1:08:03And then at the end of that experiment,
1:08:05it all went to zero.
1:08:07I was out money, I was out time, I was
1:08:09out everything. And I felt I felt very
1:08:12guilty. That was one one example. Um,
1:08:16but thankfully like we we didn't have to
1:08:18sell our house, we didn't have to do
1:08:19anything drastic. And what that looked
1:08:21like at home was dad was quiet more
1:08:23often than not. Dad was grumpy more
1:08:25often than not. But dad wasn't really
1:08:28talking freely and openly about the
1:08:30things he was going through because he
1:08:31was trying to, you know, put on a brave
1:08:33face and insulate um, the family from
1:08:36that. Even when my wife was begging to
1:08:38know more, to get more out of me, I just
1:08:41if I talk about stressors, then it
1:08:42becomes more stressful to me often
1:08:44times. So I just keep it in.
1:08:46>> I find the same. I I I think my partner
1:08:49understands this of me and I tried to
1:08:50explain to her that I don't like talking
1:08:51about the stress because
1:08:53in this environment you it's actually
1:08:55de-stressing me from not having to
1:08:56explain and conversate about it.
1:08:58>> Mhm.
1:08:59>> So, which is a bit of a paradox because
1:09:01then they don't really understand.
1:09:02>> Yeah.
1:09:03>> And if they don't understand,
1:09:05they might misunderstand.
1:09:06Misunderstandments might lead to
1:09:07arguments and the arguments create
1:09:09stress and then you're going to tell
1:09:10them in some sort of like argument
1:09:13what's going on.
1:09:14>> Yeah, yeah.
1:09:15I've lived that for sure.
1:09:16>> I don't know how to navigate that, but
1:09:18but it's definitely true that me
1:09:20going through something in work and then
1:09:21having to come home and like
1:09:23go through it for another hour to
1:09:24someone else and stress them out,
1:09:26potentially,
1:09:27>> Yeah.
1:09:27>> doesn't feel like the right approach.
1:09:29>> No, but I don't know what the right
1:09:30approach is because they they have a
1:09:32right to know about it as well, right?
1:09:34>> I think we just need an outlet, whether
1:09:36it's a friend that kind of understands
1:09:38or someone else that,
1:09:39you know, is in our space that we can
1:09:41just talk to about the situation. I
1:09:43think having no outlet is also bad.
1:09:45>> Yeah.
1:09:46And I'm I'm guilty of that.
1:09:48I I find a lot of joy in my work, and so
1:09:51I I don't look at it as work often, but
1:09:53it's still work,
1:09:54right? Like it's still taxing.
1:09:56Um so I need to be better about having
1:09:58an outlet.
1:10:00>> Have you developed a a new relationship
1:10:02with rejection and failure? Because, you
1:10:03know, starting 80 odd businesses, you
1:10:06must have dealt with a lot of failure.
1:10:07>> Mhm.
1:10:08>> And And how does that feed into
1:10:10everything we're talking about today?
1:10:12>> Oh, [sighs] man. I would
1:10:14I don't know where I'd be without
1:10:15rejection and failure.
1:10:16Um I'm not good at sales.
1:10:19So if anyone's watching this and like, I
1:10:20can't start a business. Business is all
1:10:22sales. Like you don't have to be good at
1:10:23sales. I'm not good at sales. I I can't
1:10:25think of a business that where I had to
1:10:27rely on like early customers coming from
1:10:30friends and family because I cared a lot
1:10:32about what people thought. I didn't want
1:10:34to post my side hustle number 37 to
1:10:36Facebook because I just thought my
1:10:37friends would roll their eyes. So I
1:10:40created this stupid constraint for me
1:10:41where like I had to launch things
1:10:42without the help of my ever willing
1:10:45friends and family because I was too
1:10:46prideful, right? So I I advise against
1:10:48that, first of all. Second [snorts] of
1:10:49all, um
1:10:52I served a mission for my church. I went
1:10:54to Eastern Europe for two years and I
1:10:57knocked doors in Hungarian for two years
1:10:59straight. I approached people on the
1:11:01street in freezing weather wearing a big
1:11:04Russian hat. Like
1:11:07I got rejected tens of thousands of
1:11:09times over the course of two years.
1:11:11Being an introvert, staying an
1:11:13introvert, still an introvert, still bad
1:11:15at sales, still hating sales today at
1:11:16age 38, right?
1:11:18But that like changed me as a man, as a
1:11:21person, right? That rewired my brain to
1:11:25just realize that every no is closer to
1:11:28yes. If my conversion rate is 0.1% I got
1:11:31to talk to 1,000 people and I will
1:11:33surely get a conversion. If I talk to
1:11:351,000 and I don't get a conversion, then
1:11:37I'm going to get two conversions by the
1:11:38time I get to 2,000 statistically
1:11:40speaking. So I just need to keep getting
1:11:41rejected.
1:11:42Um
1:11:43and that changed everything for me.
1:11:46>> I think it's super underrated to give
1:11:48kids a job in like cold sales.
1:11:50>> Mhm.
1:11:51>> It's what I did when I was 16 till 19.
1:11:53Sounds like it's what you did
1:11:55>> Mhm.
1:11:55>> as a young man.
1:11:57Are your kids going to do that?
1:11:59>> Yeah, hopefully.
1:12:00And two of my kids are introverts, two
1:12:02are extroverted, but uh they will they
1:12:04are selling. Like they already have
1:12:06businesses, little side hustles here and
1:12:07there. Um but I am encouraging them to
1:12:10go on missions and to do selling because
1:12:12it's it's the fastest way to learn. Like
1:12:14it's the fastest way to test. If I talk
1:12:16to 1,000 people, then I can have 1,000
1:12:18different approaches. And if my
1:12:20conversion rate is 0.1% um I'm going to
1:12:23get that to 0.5% over time because I'm
1:12:25able to test and iterate and and pivot
1:12:28based on all that feedback I get.
1:12:30>> What have you learned about team
1:12:31building and business partners through
1:12:33this process? What advice would you give
1:12:35to someone who sat there alone
1:12:37listening to this right now? Do they
1:12:38need a business partner? If they do,
1:12:40who, how, what?
1:12:42>> Oh, [sighs] man. Um
1:12:45usually people don't need a business
1:12:46partner.
1:12:47Um
1:12:49if you look at the stats on like
1:12:51business failure rates with companies
1:12:54that have co-founders, it's
1:12:56significantly higher than companies that
1:12:57have solo founders.
1:12:59We see the survivorship bias examples,
1:13:01right? The the Apples and the
1:13:03a lot of companies we can look at that
1:13:05had two co-founders that that won. But
1:13:07nobody talks about or writes about the
1:13:1090, 60, 80% of companies that fail with
1:13:14co-founders. Think about it this way.
1:13:15When we get married,
1:13:17we'll spend years talking about our
1:13:20potential plans, like big goals, like
1:13:22where do we want to live? How many kids
1:13:23do we have? My wife and I wanted seven
1:13:25kids when we got married. We settled on
1:13:26four, right? It changed over time. It
1:13:28took years to change. We realized kids
1:13:30are actually freaking hard, right?
1:13:32And we so then we're like, where do we
1:13:33live? What kind of a house do we want?
1:13:34We spend all this time, maybe while
1:13:36we're engaged, maybe while we're dating,
1:13:37maybe
1:13:38after we're married. But those are big
1:13:40decisions, right? But when we choose a
1:13:43business partner, we go get avocado
1:13:45toast together and we're like, 50/50?
1:13:47Cool, sounds good. Let's do this, you
1:13:49know? I'll get the docs signed. It's
1:13:51like, who is that guy?
1:13:52You might have even known him your whole
1:13:53life, but who is he as a business
1:13:55partner or as a business person? I just
1:13:58I feel like business partnerships are
1:13:59significantly harder than marriages
1:14:02even.
1:14:03But we put 99% less thought into like
1:14:07the structure of things and that's a
1:14:09giant failure that I've made over and
1:14:11over again.
1:14:12>> What do you wish someone had said to you
1:14:14in the situations where it didn't work
1:14:15out with business partners or really
1:14:16like across the board? Because I I read
1:14:18that you'd had what, seven business
1:14:19partners?
1:14:20>> It says that I've had like 15.
1:14:22>> Okay. So in those 15 occasions, what is
1:14:25the advice you wish someone had given
1:14:26you before you engaged in those business
1:14:28relationships?
1:14:29>> Yeah. Well,
1:14:30what do they say about dating? It's like
1:14:31be a be a good like the best way to find
1:14:34a good spouse is to be a good spouse.
1:14:36Best way to find a good girlfriend. You
1:14:37know what I'm saying? You've got to
1:14:39learn more about yourself before you
1:14:40partner with someone else.
1:14:42Most people have no idea like who they
1:14:44are as a business person or as an
1:14:45entrepreneur when they partner. They
1:14:46don't know what their strengths are or
1:14:48their weaknesses are. They sure don't
1:14:49know what the other guy's strengths or
1:14:50weaknesses are. So I suggest people solo
1:14:53found things to start to learn more
1:14:56about themselves. Are they a a
1:14:57visionary? Are they an integrator,
1:14:59starter, maintainer, finisher? Who are
1:15:01they?
1:15:02And then when they want to jump into
1:15:03another thing, because inevitably if we
1:15:05launch one thing, we're going to launch
1:15:06more,
1:15:07they know more about what to look for in
1:15:09a partner um and they can optimize for
1:15:11that.
1:15:12>> What about equity?
1:15:15>> Yeah. I mean,
1:15:1650/50 is the old standby, right? Um
1:15:20could you imagine if you like you go on
1:15:22a first date and it's like,
1:15:25how many kids do you want? Four.
1:15:27Okay, we'll have four. We'll get married
1:15:30and that's how many we will have
1:15:31uh uh matter what.
1:15:33That's a 50/50 partnership, right? It's
1:15:35making an incredibly important decision
1:15:38based on,
1:15:40yeah, they both equal 100. Numbers sound
1:15:42clean to me, but like what is the
1:15:44statistical chance? This is what needs
1:15:46to be true for a 50/50 partnership to
1:15:47work, okay?
1:15:49They both have to be all in.
1:15:51They both have to always be all in for
1:15:53the whole lifespan of the business,
1:15:55maybe years, maybe decades. They have to
1:15:57put in the same amount of money, same
1:15:58amount of effort, same amount of
1:15:59connections, value, history, background.
1:16:02Also, both of them should be completely
1:16:05selfless, right? And not care if the
1:16:07other one's not pulling his weight. I'm
1:16:09taking a month-long vacation. Cool,
1:16:11you'll make up for it later. They have
1:16:12to be like that chill of a human being.
1:16:15And of course, like they have to be the
1:16:17same as the other person. If all those
1:16:19things are true, 50/50 works great.
1:16:21>> And they need to develop going forward
1:16:23in the same way because for the next 10
1:16:25future
1:16:25>> need to grow at the same rate.
1:16:26>> Yeah.
1:16:27>> Yeah, which will never never ever be the
1:16:29case.
1:16:29So I like to say like you don't want to
1:16:32uh DTR, define the relationship too
1:16:34early or too late.
1:16:37If you sit down at brunch and you're
1:16:38like, let's do 50/50, cool. Big mistake.
1:16:40If you you're two years down the line
1:16:42and you've got all this revenue and
1:16:44customers and you're like, all right, we
1:16:45should probably formalize this,
1:16:47too late cuz like that only works if the
1:16:49business just stays at like a steady
1:16:51state forever,
1:16:52which it won't. It's going to go up or
1:16:54it going to go down, right?
1:16:56And like things get really ugly when
1:16:58either one of those two scenarios
1:16:59happen. So the sweet spot in my
1:17:01experience is, listen, this is how this
1:17:04conversation would would work. We're
1:17:05going to partner together.
1:17:06>> Mm.
1:17:06>> Hey, um
1:17:08I think you're going to be great for
1:17:09this business because you have a sales
1:17:11background, you're great at sales, you
1:17:12have a lot of contacts in the industry.
1:17:14I don't have any of that. I don't even
1:17:15like sales. I don't know anything about
1:17:16sales, but I'm an amazing engineer. Like
1:17:19I know I can build this thing. You've
1:17:20seen me build other websites, other apps
1:17:22in the past. I already have like a
1:17:24wireframe in mind. Like we're going to
1:17:26be great for this, right? So let's just
1:17:29do this. I don't know how this is going
1:17:31to go. I don't know how much time you
1:17:32have. We both have full-time jobs. Um
1:17:35why don't we just to
1:17:37$10,000 in revenue?
1:17:39Um let's get product market fit, let's
1:17:41get some good traction. Maybe we'll get
1:17:43like you really have to set a defined
1:17:45metric around it. Not like let's see how
1:17:47this goes in 30 days, but something like
1:17:48a revenue number, number of customers or
1:17:50something.
1:17:51At that point, let's sit down. Let's
1:17:53just like put it in the calendar today
1:17:55and let's have a conversation about what
1:17:57our equity looks like.
1:17:58Uh because almost every time
1:18:01they're going to be remote
1:18:03just based on the world we live in or
1:18:05one person will put in more money
1:18:07or one person has more experience um
1:18:10and all those things are are relevant,
1:18:11but
1:18:12>> Because you're going to get resentment.
1:18:14>> 100% and you're probably not going to
1:18:16talk about that resentment
1:18:17and it's only going to get worse.
1:18:19Um
1:18:20it'll only get worse if
1:18:22you know things either go up or down.
1:18:24So they they will always get worse.
1:18:26Um but it's it's hard to define because
1:18:28one person might have 30 years of
1:18:30industry experience and contacts and
1:18:32expertise and he can make one phone call
1:18:34that changes everything and the other
1:18:36person might be 18 years old and just a
1:18:38hustler and willing to put in 80 hours a
1:18:40week. So is the level of value the same
1:18:42if the level of hours put into the
1:18:44business not the same?
1:18:47It's hard like it's it's really hard to
1:18:49say hey my one phone call made us 10
1:18:51millions of dollars, tens of millions of
1:18:53dollars,
1:18:54but you've done all the work. You're the
1:18:55operator so we should be 50/50.
1:18:58They're both going to take issue with
1:18:59that.
1:19:01>> The only instance I was thinking about
1:19:02all the business partnerships that I'm
1:19:04aware of so companies I've invested in
1:19:06there's about 60 or 70 companies I've
1:19:07invested in and then businesses I've
1:19:09started myself and the one time I've
1:19:12seen it work to split equally
1:19:15the two people had known each other for
1:19:17a long long time and they were both
1:19:21late in their career.
1:19:22>> Mm.
1:19:23>> So they're like you know when we think
1:19:24about rate of development and potential
1:19:28not only did they have a strong
1:19:29relationship, they'd known each other a
1:19:30long time, they'd worked together
1:19:33more than five years together
1:19:35and they're sort of later in a more
1:19:37mature phase of their career, where you
1:19:39know like the kids situations figured
1:19:41itself out, if they're going to have
1:19:42kids or not, and there hasn't been some
1:19:45of the big life disruptors that
1:19:47sometimes can come along and change
1:19:48things.
1:19:49And then I can think of another example
1:19:51where two people knew each other,
1:19:53they were very very young, they'd worked
1:19:55together before, the contract went in
1:19:5750/50 although it was never really
1:19:58equal,
1:20:00and then their rate of growth
1:20:02changed wildly where one person
1:20:04>> Mhm.
1:20:05>> really just like became a superstar.
1:20:08And they look back at the contract and
1:20:09it was 50/50 and I remember being privy
1:20:11to the conversation where that person
1:20:12turned around to their business partner
1:20:13and it's like this is not fair.
1:20:15>> Yeah.
1:20:16>> This company without me goes to zero,
1:20:18without you it keeps growing.
1:20:20>> Yeah.
1:20:20>> And there was an adjustment made to the
1:20:22equity at that point which is hard to do
1:20:23because of tax reasons and stuff.
1:20:24>> Yeah.
1:20:25The one thing I will say about a 50/50
1:20:27and going in with someone that you've
1:20:29known for a long time or going in with
1:20:30your best friend,
1:20:31that can be really freaking fun.
1:20:33Like it can just be the most enjoyable
1:20:35life ever. So it's just very high risk
1:20:39and very high reward and if you can make
1:20:40it work like
1:20:42oftentimes the biggest and the best and
1:20:44the most well-run companies you see were
1:20:4750/50 partners that knew each other for
1:20:48a long time for that reason. Um but the
1:20:51rate of failure is higher than average.
1:20:53>> So in these three suitcases in front of
1:20:55me
1:20:56I have
1:20:57different amounts of money.
1:20:58>> Mhm.
1:20:59>> And all I want you to do is to let me
1:21:02know if I was giving you this amount of
1:21:04money
1:21:05what business you would start.
1:21:10Okay.
1:21:11So the first one
1:21:14has
1:21:16$500.
1:21:17>> Yeah.
1:21:19Awesome. So most people would look at
1:21:20this and think what am I going to do
1:21:22with $500?
1:21:23It's a lot of money, right? In in the
1:21:25age of today with 30-day free trials and
1:21:29a lot of Silicon Valley funded companies
1:21:31willing to give you a lot of money to
1:21:32test your product, this goes a long way.
1:21:34So
1:21:35the first thing to come to mind that
1:21:37comes to mind is probably
1:21:39my favorite business idea of all right
1:21:40now. Thankfully you can start it with
1:21:42even less than this. And that would be a
1:21:44business that helps implement AI into
1:21:46small businesses, small to medium-sized
1:21:48businesses. So some facts for you.
1:21:51There's 400 million small businesses on
1:21:53the planet.
1:21:54They've surveyed some of these business
1:21:56owners,
1:21:57um and 77% of them have admitted that
1:22:01like AI would be transformational to
1:22:03their business. They need AI. It's not a
1:22:05fad. It's not going away. 5% of them
1:22:08have claimed they're using AI in a
1:22:10meaningful way, right? And to find that
1:22:12as you will.
1:22:13So basically, we have this knowledge
1:22:15gap, right? We know it's like a it's
1:22:17like a business cognitive dissonance if
1:22:19you will. We know we need to do
1:22:20something and we're not doing it.
1:22:22Doesn't matter how easy the tools are,
1:22:24doesn't matter how much you can create a
1:22:25new website or an app with one prompt,
1:22:27um they need someone to do it, right?
1:22:30I know how to vacuum my floor. I know
1:22:32how to clean my house. I still would
1:22:33rather have just pay someone to do it,
1:22:35okay?
1:22:36And so with a fifth of the money, call
1:22:38it $100,
1:22:39I would start learning some vibe coding
1:22:41tools. Um Replit, Lindi, there's a ton
1:22:44of them out there. What is vibe coding
1:22:45for anyone that doesn't know?
1:22:46>> coding is the non-technical person, the
1:22:49non-coder such as myself, using their
1:22:51natural language to just say, hey, build
1:22:54me an app that manages customers for dog
1:22:58trainers.
1:22:59You'll have an app, right? Is it fully
1:23:01functional and workable yet? Not quite,
1:23:03but 10 to 20 more prompts and you're
1:23:05good to go.
1:23:06>> And for anyone that doesn't know, I I
1:23:07would suggest I'm an investor in both
1:23:08Lovalble and Replit, so disclaimer, but
1:23:10I would recommend going on Replit or
1:23:12Lovalble and um typing in
1:23:16any website ID you have just to have
1:23:18that sort of eureka moment of watching
1:23:20it be made in front of you. I think that
1:23:21eureka moment is the moment your mind
1:23:23expands to the possibilities that are
1:23:25currently right in front of all of us.
1:23:26>> Yes.
1:23:27>> You know, we think of building websites
1:23:28or apps as exclusive to those that have
1:23:30spent five years learning to code. That
1:23:32has now changed.
1:23:33>> Yeah.
1:23:34>> We can all do it.
1:23:35>> Yeah, and everyone should, like you
1:23:36said, one prompt, develop an app. Oh
1:23:38you, what do I prompt? What do I build?
1:23:39Ask ChatGPT what to build,
1:23:42copy paste one of those, ask ChatGPT to
1:23:43prompt
1:23:44take it over to Replit or Lovable, paste
1:23:46it, and see what it builds. So, I would
1:23:48use this as my education and also to
1:23:51build a website, right?
1:23:52Chris'saiautomations.com,
1:23:54whatever, anything.
1:23:55[snorts] And then I would take the rest
1:23:57of the money and I would put it into
1:23:59ads, right?
1:24:01Uh preferably Meta ads, Facebook ads.
1:24:03And I would target local businesses.
1:24:05Even though this is a global thing, if I
1:24:07live in Omaha, Nebraska, I could sell
1:24:08this to people in Tokyo. Doesn't matter.
1:24:10I'm going to put radius around Omaha and
1:24:13my ads are going to say I'm Chris and I
1:24:15can help put AI into your business. I'm
1:24:18going to use fifth grade words. I'm not
1:24:20going to use LLM. I'm not even going to
1:24:22say ChatGPT. I'm just going to say I
1:24:24will make your business more money or
1:24:26save your business money with AI.
1:24:29Just a service business.
1:24:31And then I'll get on discovery calls
1:24:32with these business owners and I'll just
1:24:33start
1:24:34peppering them with questions about
1:24:36their business.
1:24:37And over time, I'm going to learn based
1:24:39on their answers what their problems
1:24:41are, what they're struggling with. Is it
1:24:42hiring? Is it payroll? Is it sales?
1:24:44Usually it's going to be sales, right?
1:24:46And then I'm going to take this money
1:24:47over here, this $100 and go back to
1:24:49those apps and start building solutions
1:24:51for them for free
1:24:53just to kind of implement myself as an
1:24:55expert.
1:24:55>> And what are you going to charge them?
1:24:57>> I'm going to charge them between
1:24:59$500 and $5,000 upfront one time to
1:25:02implement it. And then I'm going to
1:25:04charge them 20% of that amount on an
1:25:06ongoing basis to maintain it and fix it
1:25:08as it breaks.
1:25:10Let's say there's a gutter cleaning
1:25:12business in Omaha, Nebraska
1:25:14that
1:25:15doesn't want to take calls after hours.
1:25:18He's with his wife watching Netflix and
1:25:19he knows that's a $3,000 job.
1:25:22He doesn't want to take it. So it was
1:25:23going to voicemail and they're calling
1:25:24someone else that is taking it, right?
1:25:27So I'm going to build an AI voice agent
1:25:29for him, which sounds really
1:25:30intimidating. It feels like we have to
1:25:32have all these skills. You don't. You
1:25:33just need to prompt a couple tools a
1:25:34couple times.
1:25:36I'm going to build a voice agent for him
1:25:37and then I'm going to tell him to call
1:25:38that agent as if he were a customer
1:25:40and say, hey, pretend you're a customer
1:25:42that needs gutter cleaning. You're
1:25:43calling at 9:30 p.m. And just see how it
1:25:45reacts. He's expecting there to be a
1:25:47delay. There's really not. He's
1:25:49expecting it to be dumb. It's not. He's
1:25:52expecting it to need to know all about
1:25:53his business. It doesn't, right? The AI
1:25:55knows about gutter cleaning businesses.
1:25:58Then he's sold, right? Charge him $3,000
1:26:01for that.
1:26:02You build it, and then you charge him,
1:26:04call it 500 or 600 a month to maintain
1:26:06it over time. And then the beautiful
1:26:07thing is you can go to every other
1:26:08gutter cleaning business in Omaha or
1:26:10anywhere and copy and paste that same
1:26:12app and sell it to them.
1:26:14>> Got you. So selling AI to small business
1:26:17owners who are in huge demand but don't
1:26:19have the time or think they
1:26:21need some sort of incredible
1:26:24expensive
1:26:25time and resource expensive competence
1:26:28to understand AI when actually AI is
1:26:30really, really simple.
1:26:30>> Yes.
1:26:31>> And we see this play out over history
1:26:33where there's an initial arbitrage when
1:26:35a new technology comes into play. In
1:26:37fact, one of the call center jobs that I
1:26:40had when I was very, very broke many,
1:26:41many years ago when I was like 18 um or
1:26:4419 [clears throat]
1:26:45was calling businesses from the Yellow
1:26:48Pages and selling them Facebook ads.
1:26:51>> Mm.
1:26:51>> I would call a builder on a building
1:26:53site. I'd speak to Dave who's the owner
1:26:55of the building company, and I'd explain
1:26:56Facebook ads to him over the phone, and
1:26:59then I'd set them up for him and manage
1:27:01them for him on an ongoing basis and
1:27:03just send him the leads
1:27:05because he didn't understand Facebook
1:27:06ads. And these opportunities seem to
1:27:07exist
1:27:09for years when there's a new technology
1:27:11as we as we're seeing with the AI.
1:27:13>> But the thing is with that idea and with
1:27:14most ideas in my experience,
1:27:16we think there's a very limited time
1:27:17span. But if I were to start that
1:27:19business today, just start calling
1:27:20people, it would work.
1:27:21>> Yeah, you could still do it, yeah.
1:27:23>> I might have more competitors, but like
1:27:24it it doesn't matter. It would still
1:27:25work.
1:27:26>> Interestingly, the the issue back then
1:27:28was people didn't even know what
1:27:29Facebook ads were. So maybe it works to
1:27:31some degree better now. People have
1:27:33heard the word.
1:27:34>> You were pretty early.
1:27:36>> Yeah, it was 2015 or something.
1:27:38So it was it was quite rough, but it was
1:27:40a business nonetheless. And there was 40
1:27:42other people in the room with me in that
1:27:43call center doing it.
1:27:44>> Wow.
1:27:45>> So that's the first idea you have.
1:27:46>> Yeah.
1:27:47>> What else? $500, what else could you do?
1:27:49>> Okay, do you want a uh you want a
1:27:51physical business or an online business?
1:27:52Or does it not matter?
1:27:53>> What about a physical one?
1:27:55>> All right. For a physical one,
1:27:57I would um
1:27:59Have you heard of drop servicing?
1:28:00>> No.
1:28:01>> So the phrase drop shipping is kind of
1:28:03has a bad rap and some of it for a good
1:28:05reason,
1:28:06which is basically
1:28:07buying a product in China, uh having a
1:28:09website for it, and basically having the
1:28:12Chinese manufacturer, the supplier ship
1:28:14it directly to your customer so you
1:28:15don't have to take possession of the
1:28:16inventory, right? Drop servicing is
1:28:18doing something similar with a service.
1:28:20Call it a let's call it a home service
1:28:22business, right? So in this case, it
1:28:24would look like um a garage repair
1:28:26company that has a website that looks
1:28:29like they have a physical presence in a
1:28:30market, but is really just a lead gen
1:28:32factory,
1:28:33right? And so what you're doing is
1:28:35you're using Facebook or Google Ads to
1:28:37generate leads, kind of like what you
1:28:39were doing on Facebook um for a local
1:28:41business, and then you're you're instead
1:28:44of just selling the leads for $20,
1:28:46you're actually doing more of the work.
1:28:49You're you're subcontracting out the
1:28:50work to a local business that actually
1:28:52repairs garage doors. They're the
1:28:54fulfillment arm of the business. You're
1:28:56the marketing arm of the business.
1:28:58So in essence, you have a garage repair
1:29:01um business without actually having one.
1:29:03Like you don't know anything about
1:29:04garage doors. You've never been on site.
1:29:06You're just drop servicing. You're
1:29:07you're sending all the work to a local
1:29:09company to do it.
1:29:10>> So I a car repair company, I I put up a
1:29:14car repair website.
1:29:15I use Facebook Ads to drive people
1:29:17towards it. When they click to buy my my
1:29:20car repair, I call a local car repair
1:29:23person and say, hey, I've got a customer
1:29:24here for you. Um can you take them? I
1:29:27book the customer in.
1:29:28>> Mhm.
1:29:29>> They handle the car repair. I take the
1:29:31payment and pay the garage.
1:29:32>> Yep. Great question. So let's just say
1:29:34in your example um an oil change at at
1:29:37some at Bob's car repair that doesn't
1:29:39have a website is 40 bucks, which is a
1:29:41great price.
1:29:42Your website is clean. It's nice. They
1:29:44can pay with a few clicks and it's 80
1:29:46bucks, right? So you call Bob one day
1:29:48and say, hey, congratulations, I have a
1:29:51lead. And I don't have a lead. I have a
1:29:52customer. I want to send you $40. Her
1:29:54name is Mary. She's going to be coming
1:29:56in. She has a Sequoia. She needs an oil
1:29:58change, right? And so Mary just
1:29:59interacts with you. She's trusting you
1:30:01with the money. You don't have to trust
1:30:03Bob with the money. Uh, you just send
1:30:05Bob the money. You make even more margin
1:30:07than Bob makes, right? It's a higher
1:30:09price service, but what you're charging
1:30:11for is the better UI, the better user
1:30:14experience, and having a a cleaner
1:30:16checkout method.
1:30:17>> And is there particular types of
1:30:19businesses you would target with that
1:30:20approach? Are you targeting ones that
1:30:22have a shitty customer experience, bad
1:30:24website, etcetera?
1:30:25>> In home services, like take your pick.
1:30:28Um, they pretty much all do, right? Um,
1:30:30there are some more established
1:30:31industries like roofing that don't have
1:30:33those issues uh because they have higher
1:30:35margins, so they can afford better
1:30:36websites, but
1:30:37um they pretty much all have a bad
1:30:39experience.
1:30:40>> Any others at that $500 level that stand
1:30:42out to you?
1:30:43>> Yeah, I love um directory websites.
1:30:46>> What's that?
1:30:47>> So Travelocity is a directory website.
1:30:49Yelp is a directory website. It's a a
1:30:51website with a list of things that helps
1:30:54people find answers to their questions
1:30:56more easily.
1:30:57So another example of a website could be
1:30:59like Wisconsin um ice suppliers .com. I
1:31:03don't know if that's a website, right?
1:31:05Where if I need to go buy ice for my
1:31:06party, uh I'm going to Google ice near
1:31:09me. Um, some categories are so niche or
1:31:11so unevenly distributed that Google Maps
1:31:14is not a good solution for it, right? So
1:31:16you're directed to these random
1:31:18directory websites that are just lists
1:31:19of other businesses. Um, and what people
1:31:22are doing is they're proactively
1:31:23creating their own directories by
1:31:25scraping uh let's say every dog park in
1:31:28Seattle, Washington and putting them on
1:31:30a website and then they don't they don't
1:31:32even drive traffic to it. There's no
1:31:33paid ads. They just wait for Google and
1:31:36for SEO to do its trick. And it's very
1:31:38much an 80/20 rule. You could kind of
1:31:41build the architecture for a directory
1:31:42website with Replit or Lovable and then
1:31:45you just copy and paste it, right? In
1:31:46different markets. Uh, so the play here
1:31:49is to have dozens of directory websites
1:31:51and some of them make $0 a month, some
1:31:53make a few hundred, some make a few
1:31:55thousand, but it's very passive. It's
1:31:57like one of those rare things that's
1:31:58passive, yet also doesn't need a ton of
1:32:01money to get to get started.
1:32:03>> Where's the money coming from? What's
1:32:04the revenue?
1:32:06>> Great question. You can either do like
1:32:07display ads.
1:32:08>> What's a display ad?
1:32:09>> Just a banner ad on a website.
1:32:11>> And are you having to go and sell that
1:32:13ad to someone that wants to buy it?
1:32:14>> You would just take Google's like ad
1:32:16network and just put it on your website
1:32:18so you don't have to do anything.
1:32:19>> So you can just click a button and it'll
1:32:21add adverts to your website which you'll
1:32:23you'll then paid for.
1:32:24>> Yep, or you could um you could just
1:32:26aggregate those leads. Like if we had
1:32:28dog parks in Seattle and you know, we
1:32:30see on our Google Analytics that we're
1:32:32driving traffic to this one dog park,
1:32:34then we reach out to them proactively
1:32:36and say, hey, you notice all these
1:32:38customers you've been getting, that's
1:32:39because I put you on my website. Would
1:32:41you like to pay $300 a year or a month
1:32:43or whatever for priority placement,
1:32:45right? So I like to call this
1:32:46permissionless marketing. Um you're just
1:32:49proactively adding these businesses to a
1:32:51website. They have nothing to lose, you
1:32:52have nothing to lose and then once you
1:32:54see traffic, then you reach out to them
1:32:56and say, hey, I've been bringing you
1:32:57more business, would you like to start
1:32:58paying for that?
1:33:00>> Interesting.
1:33:02And how much money can someone hope to
1:33:03make if they execute that strategy well
1:33:05in your view? What's realistic?
1:33:07>> With a directory website, it could be
1:33:09tens of dollars a month and it could be
1:33:10tens of thousands of dollars a month.
1:33:12But we're not talking about building
1:33:13another Yelp or Travelocity. This is a
1:33:15zero employee business with that cost
1:33:18almost nothing, less than $100 to start.
1:33:22Um but it's just a numbers game. You're
1:33:23not really going to know what directory
1:33:25really hits until months have passed and
1:33:28until you have a lot of surface area for
1:33:29these experiments.
1:33:32>> I hear a lot of people talking about
1:33:33vending machines online. And I've always
1:33:36been really curious about that. People
1:33:38say you can make money from vending
1:33:39machines.
1:33:40>> Yeah.
1:33:40>> Could you do that with $500?
1:33:42>> Absolutely. So if we were doing another
1:33:43physical business,
1:33:45um
1:33:46I would go to Facebook Marketplace and I
1:33:48would find an existing vending machine
1:33:51uh for $300
1:33:53to right? That could be a snack or a
1:33:55drink vending machine. Um oftentimes
1:33:57expensive part of a vending machine is
1:33:59the credit card reader. It can often
1:34:01cost more or as much as the whole
1:34:02machine itself. And then I would use
1:34:04$100
1:34:05to stock the machine um with Costco.
1:34:08Costco or Sam's Club is where all of
1:34:09these operators buy their snacks,
1:34:11believe it or not. And then I just need
1:34:12one business owner to give me a chance
1:34:14um to allow me to put the vending
1:34:16machine in his lobby. Let's say it's a
1:34:17car repair business. I can say, hey,
1:34:19I'll pay you 100 bucks a month
1:34:21or hey, I'll split the revenue with you.
1:34:23I'll give you 30% of the revenue. And
1:34:24then once I have one,
1:34:26that's the hardest part. Now you have a
1:34:27track record. Now you can say, hey,
1:34:29Bob's Auto Repair makes $700 a month
1:34:31passively cuz he let me put
1:34:33uh this vending machine there. This is a
1:34:34business that can be passive if you have
1:34:36an employee to restock it. That is the
1:34:38active part of the business is the
1:34:39restocking and the selling of new
1:34:41locations.
1:34:43Um, but if you have an ATM,
1:34:44then that becomes even easier because
1:34:46you can outsource all of the restocking
1:34:48to a cash management company.
1:34:50>> How much money could one person hope to
1:34:52make from a vending machine business?
1:34:53And have you ever run this business
1:34:55yourself?
1:34:55>> I have. I've actually been in a
1:34:57different part of the vertical. I've
1:34:58sold vending machines.
1:35:00I posted a a video to Instagram that got
1:35:02tens of millions of views, and we
1:35:03started just importing those vending
1:35:05machines that I was talking about in the
1:35:07video
1:35:08uh and then selling them to
1:35:09entrepreneurs. But the level of revenue
1:35:11is I mean, it's as much as you want to
1:35:13scale it. I have a friend in San Diego
1:35:15that makes seven figures a year uh on
1:35:17vending machines.
1:35:19Just snacks and drinks.
1:35:20>> Is there an art to good vending machine
1:35:22placement or the right things to sell in
1:35:24the vending machine or anything else?
1:35:26>> Yeah, it's funny that you asked that
1:35:27because
1:35:28he said, you know, I'm in San Diego.
1:35:30People are health conscious here, and he
1:35:32tested all these healthy concepts, and
1:35:33they all failed.
1:35:35Like people want Doritos and Coke and
1:35:36Diet Coke, right? So that's all they
1:35:38have now. That's where the demand is.
1:35:41But the biggest needle mover on this is
1:35:43the location. And it's a matter of
1:35:45testing, back to testing, right? Testing
1:35:47what types of locations. He landed on um
1:35:50apartment complexes, like apartment
1:35:51lobbies. He tried auto repair shops, and
1:35:54they just weren't high volume. But it's
1:35:56the type of business kind of like
1:35:57directories where if you have 100
1:35:59vending machines,
1:36:00um you're going to have
1:36:0220 of them that make $3,000 a month
1:36:04each, and then you're going to have 80
1:36:06of them that make $400 a month each. But
1:36:09once you find out what types of
1:36:10locations are the most profitable, then
1:36:12you just start directly reaching out to
1:36:14those types of locations.
1:36:17>> I've just finished writing my third
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1:37:19You know, every once in a while you come
1:37:21across a product that has such a huge
1:37:23impact on your life that you'd probably
1:37:25describe it as a game changer. And I
1:37:28would say
1:37:30for about 35%
1:37:32to my team, they would currently
1:37:34describe this product that I have in
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1:37:43the reason why they they now are a
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1:38:20Um so we have another box here.
1:38:22This box
1:38:24has slightly more money in, double.
1:38:27Okay, $1,000. What would you do
1:38:29with $1,000?
1:38:31>> All right. So,
1:38:34for whatever reason, when I see $1,000
1:38:37I think um about the wedding rental
1:38:40business.
1:38:41Do you know anything about that?
1:38:42>> No.
1:38:43>> So,
1:38:45believe it or not um weddings are
1:38:47increasing in popularity. People are
1:38:48getting out uh getting married outside
1:38:51more than ever. I think like 75 % of
1:38:53weddings are outside now, which is
1:38:55increasing every year. Um and that
1:38:57increases the market for these random
1:38:59one-off rentals, right? I read an
1:39:01article on Reddit about a guy that built
1:39:04a wedding arch
1:39:06from his garage with some 2x4s, some
1:39:08lumber. I think he spent like $200 or
1:39:12$300 to build it
1:39:13and he rents it out to weddings for like
1:39:15$1,000 per wedding.
1:39:17And it's just a a piece of wood for the
1:39:19couples to stand under as they say I do,
1:39:21right?
1:39:22>> And so he works with event organizers or
1:39:24wedding organizers to continually rent
1:39:25it to the wedding organizer.
1:39:27>> Exactly. He doesn't go through the
1:39:28brides. He goes through the wedding
1:39:30planners cuz surface area. They have
1:39:32they're touching all kinds of weddings
1:39:33on a regular basis.
1:39:35To find these wedding planners, you go
1:39:37to The Knot, you go to Zola,
1:39:39WeddingWire, you scrape them and all of
1:39:42their phone numbers and emails and names
1:39:44and businesses are on the website for
1:39:45everyone to see.
1:39:47And you just start reaching out. And one
1:39:48contact could be one wedding a week. So,
1:39:52that could be started that could be in
1:39:53the $500 box, right?
1:39:55>> Mhm.
1:39:55>> You could [clears throat] spend
1:39:57$300 on supplies. You could spend
1:40:00$100 on scraping all the emails quite
1:40:04cheaply.
1:40:05Um, and then you could spend
1:40:07$100 on gas
1:40:09and then or let's say another $100 on
1:40:12renting a truck and trailer from Home
1:40:14Depot. So you have a car. Say you don't
1:40:15have a car,
1:40:16right? You've got $400 left over to go
1:40:19to a nice meal or to or for Facebook
1:40:21ads.
1:40:23So photo walls
1:40:25are very popular. Charcuterie carts
1:40:28where wedding patrons can make their own
1:40:31charcuterie board.
1:40:32Um, you can do like custom pizzas at
1:40:35weddings. You could do wedding arches.
1:40:37Um,
1:40:38there's a lot of different opportunities
1:40:40there.
1:40:41>> Weddings and funerals.
1:40:43>> Yeah.
1:40:44>> Cuz everything you said there could also
1:40:45apply to funerals.
1:40:47>> That's true.
1:40:47>> They don't seem to be stopping either.
1:40:50Guess funerals are going to get more
1:40:51popular with the population
1:40:53>> Yep.
1:40:53>> continuing to increase.
1:40:56What else? So wedding rentals is the
1:40:58first one you do with $1,000. Anything
1:40:59else?
1:41:00>> Yeah, should we do a an online one?
1:41:02>> Sure.
1:41:02>> So there's a lot of people nowadays
1:41:05making money with local email
1:41:07newsletters.
1:41:09Are you very familiar with that?
1:41:09>> No.
1:41:10>> So basically what you do we keep keep
1:41:13coming back to This is like a big ad for
1:41:14Facebook, right? I swear it's not. But
1:41:16um, people are using local Facebook ads.
1:41:20Um, let's say you live in Boise, Idaho.
1:41:22There's 200,000 people there.
1:41:23You post a Facebook ad that says, hey,
1:41:25find out what's happening in Boise,
1:41:26Idaho, one email per week in your inbox.
1:41:29You can acquire a subscriber for about
1:41:3250 cents
1:41:34from Facebook or Instagram, okay?
1:41:37Let's call it a dollar to be to be more
1:41:39conservative. Acquire a subscriber for a
1:41:41dollar.
1:41:41If you sell ads inside that email
1:41:44newsletter, you can charge about 50
1:41:46cents per month um, per subscriber.
1:41:51So if we had $1,000,
1:41:55I would use a free trial for an email
1:41:57newsletter software like Beehiiv or
1:41:59ConvertKit or any of those.
1:42:01And so I've already spent $0 and I would
1:42:04give all $1,000 to Meta. I would set a
1:42:07defined radius in a local area.
1:42:09Preferably, it's where you live, but it
1:42:10doesn't have to be. It could be on the
1:42:11other side of the world. I've launched
1:42:13this. I tested this in New Mexico, and
1:42:15it worked. I'd spend $1,000 to acquire
1:42:171,000 subscribers.
1:42:19Um and then I would start sending them
1:42:21weekly newsletters. What's happening in
1:42:22Boise, Idaho? Um discounts in Boise,
1:42:25Idaho, news in Boise, Idaho. I would not
1:42:28use ChatGPT to write it. I would write
1:42:29it myself in my own natural language,
1:42:31whether I'm a good writer or not.
1:42:33>> Why?
1:42:33>> Because it needs to feel personal. It
1:42:35needs to feel like a local is writing
1:42:37it, not like an author, not like
1:42:38ChatGPT.
1:42:40Um and then I would use those same
1:42:42subscribers to source sponsors.
1:42:45So Bob's Car Repair owner is potentially
1:42:49in your list.
1:42:50There are 10% of all adults are business
1:42:52owners, right? So if I have 1,000 email
1:42:54subscribers, 100 of them are going to be
1:42:55business owners, are going to be
1:42:57potential sponsors to my newsletter.
1:42:59So after a month or so, I'm going to put
1:43:01send out an email that says, hey, your
1:43:03ad here. I'd love to sponsor your
1:43:05business. It's a very relevant market.
1:43:07It costs $500 per send to send your
1:43:10email.
1:43:11Um so then if I spend $1,000 to acquire
1:43:14these customers, I will get that money
1:43:16back within two months because I'm I'm
1:43:20making $500 a month, 50 cents per
1:43:22subscriber from 1,000 newsletter
1:43:24subscribers.
1:43:26And that can scale um as much as you
1:43:28want. If Boise, Idaho is only so big,
1:43:30you copy and paste the template in a
1:43:32another city or a bigger city.
1:43:34>> Okay, let's move up then. This
1:43:37this briefcase has
1:43:40a lot more money in it.
1:43:41>> Mhm.
1:43:43>> $5,000. What side hustle do you start
1:43:46if you've got $5,000?
1:43:49>> Okay. So
1:43:51if we've got a a sliding scale of active
1:43:53to passive income,
1:43:55the closer you get to this, to $5,000,
1:43:57the more realistic the passive income
1:43:59becomes. Okay? So I'm going to go closer
1:44:02to that. Um
1:44:04I love RV parks.
1:44:07>> What's an RV park?
1:44:09>> An RV
1:44:09>> park is one of two things.
1:44:12It's a place for someone to live in
1:44:14full-time for months or years at a time
1:44:16where they live in an recreational
1:44:17vehicle in an RV.
1:44:19>> A camper van.
1:44:19>> A camper van. It could be a fixed income
1:44:23retired person, it could be a
1:44:24blue-collar worker, it could be a
1:44:26digital nomad, right? That's kind of the
1:44:28three categories. Um the other type of
1:44:31RV park is a a recreational like a more
1:44:34short-term RV park that might be right
1:44:36outside of the Grand Canyon
1:44:38or you know a popular tourist
1:44:39destination where people are staying one
1:44:41to four nights at a time, right?
1:44:43This is a business I've been in for
1:44:45about seven years.
1:44:46Now they have very small RV parks out
1:44:48there
1:44:49that are three to 10 pad sites that are
1:44:53about three to 10 times more profitable
1:44:55than buying a single family home as a
1:44:57rental, okay? So I genuinely I don't
1:45:00understand why people buy single family
1:45:02homes because like buying a small RV
1:45:05park
1:45:06costs the same but is significantly more
1:45:08profitable
1:45:10and more flexible because you have your
1:45:12your risk is more distributed amongst
1:45:14five to 10 tenants as opposed to one
1:45:15tenant that could go bankrupt or
1:45:17disappear in the middle of the night. So
1:45:19with this $5,000
1:45:21um
1:45:22I would call every small RV park in my
1:45:26area, preferably within a three-hour
1:45:28drive. I would just find them on Google
1:45:29Maps. This would take a little more time
1:45:31because we can't allocate any of this
1:45:33budget to the finding of the park. We've
1:45:36got to do that very manually with the
1:45:37our iPhone and our internet connection,
1:45:39okay? I am going to find in my
1:45:42experience for every 100 parks I find
1:45:45about two or three of them can be a
1:45:46really good deal,
1:45:47okay? So if I get 100 people on the
1:45:49phone I I know I can find one good deal
1:45:51from that with seller financing
1:45:53because we can't use any of this to buy
1:45:54the park either.
1:45:56We've got a lot of constraints.
1:45:57I'm going to use uh let's say
1:46:012,000 of these dollars um for my due
1:46:04diligence. I've got to get inspections
1:46:06on the park. I've got to get a title
1:46:08policy on the park to make sure it's not
1:46:10a scam, to make sure that the owner who
1:46:12says they own it actually owns it.
1:46:14Um, and then with the remainder of the
1:46:17money, I need some operating capital. I
1:46:20need to be able to pay the power bill,
1:46:22to maybe trim some trees to get the park
1:46:24looking nice on day one.
1:46:26And then to actually buy the park, I
1:46:28need to set up creative financing with
1:46:30the seller. And the best way you can do
1:46:31that is by building a relationship with
1:46:33the seller, building some trust with
1:46:34them,
1:46:35um, showing them that you're going to
1:46:37take good care of the park. Now the unit
1:46:39economics on this,
1:46:40let's say you buy a park for $200,000.
1:46:43In the real estate world, they're valued
1:46:45on a cap rate basis, which is the profit
1:46:48of the park divided by the asking price
1:46:50of the park.
1:46:52So
1:46:53if I buy a park for a
1:46:5510% cap rate,
1:46:57that means it's going to make $20,000 a
1:46:59year of profit
1:47:01and it's going to cost me $200,000,
1:47:03okay?
1:47:04So that park probably has no website, it
1:47:07probably has way under market rents,
1:47:10probably has occupancy issues because
1:47:12they're it has no website. They're not
1:47:14doing anything. So I'm going to
1:47:17get the park to perform
1:47:19by literally posting ads on Facebook
1:47:22Marketplace, free ads, making a free
1:47:24website with a Vibe Coding app, and, um,
1:47:27and increasing the occupancy.
1:47:29And that $20,000 a year goes to $30,000
1:47:33a year.
1:47:33And the park is worth an 8% cap rate.
1:47:37You bought it undervalued at 10%.
1:47:39So it's now a $360,000
1:47:43park that you paid $200,000 for. So you
1:47:45can either sell it or you can just
1:47:48manage it, um, and enjoy the profits.
1:47:50>> When you said seller financing, what
1:47:52what does that mean?
1:47:53>> That means the seller is holding the
1:47:56note. They are bearing the risk of you
1:47:58buying the park.
1:47:59But what's in it for them is A,
1:48:02they can get the park back if you
1:48:04default.
1:48:04>> Okay, so they're not actually giving you
1:48:06the park upfront. They're letting you
1:48:08have it today on the basis that you'll
1:48:10pay them in the future with profits you
1:48:12make.
1:48:12>> Exactly. So you're making monthly
1:48:14payments to them.
1:48:16Um, because oftentimes they're going to
1:48:17take that money that you give them and
1:48:19they're going to have to invest it in
1:48:20something else, something they don't
1:48:21understand. So your pitch to them is,
1:48:23hey, you know this park better than
1:48:25anyone, right? You know
1:48:27what I can do to fix it. You know what
1:48:28the deficiencies are. If for some reason
1:48:30I'm not who I say I am, you just get it
1:48:32back. You take it back and you where you
1:48:34started and you keep all the money that
1:48:35I paid you some so far.
1:48:36>> How much money have you made from doing
1:48:38this?
1:48:39>> I've made
1:48:41net profit
1:48:43probably 4 to $600,000.
1:48:45>> Revenue?
1:48:46>> I would say between 3 and 4 million a
1:48:48year.
1:48:50>> With these RV parks?
1:48:51>> And mobile home parks as well. Yeah.
1:48:53>> How many of them?
1:48:54>> I've been involved with
1:48:5635 or so over the last 7 years.
1:49:01>> What a bad business.
1:49:02>> No, I mean you're capitalizing on baby
1:49:03boomers retiring and on millennials
1:49:06traveling and on
1:49:08yeah, it's just it's a growing market.
1:49:09People are getting outside more.
1:49:11>> Yeah, what what are the macro things you
1:49:13you think about at the moment when
1:49:15you're trying to decide on a new side
1:49:16hustle or a new business to start? Are
1:49:18there like obvious macro things that are
1:49:19happening that we should all be thinking
1:49:21about?
1:49:22>> You just can't ignore AI. Like whatever
1:49:24you're doing, AI has to be part of it.
1:49:25So I like the the framework of
1:49:28implementing new AI tools into old
1:49:30businesses and
1:49:33I like the framework that 10,000 um
1:49:36baby boomers are retiring every single
1:49:38day
1:49:39and that will be the case for the next 5
1:49:40to 10 years.
1:49:41>> What's the opportunity there?
1:49:42>> To either buy the businesses or to
1:49:45implement AI into the businesses. Um,
1:49:48those are the two biggest opportunities
1:49:49I see.
1:49:49>> Those two. Get them to give you the
1:49:51business so and you run it better in a
1:49:53more digital way.
1:49:54>> Yeah.
1:49:54>> And you pay them off
1:49:56for that business when you've made
1:49:57profit from it. If you don't make the
1:49:59profit, they get their business back.
1:50:00>> Yes. Now I will say finding seller
1:50:02financing on a business is harder than
1:50:05on a piece of real estate. Um, but it is
1:50:08possible.
1:50:09>> Of all the businesses you you've
1:50:10started, which one has been most
1:50:12profitable?
1:50:14>> Mm.
1:50:14>> And was the easiest?
1:50:16>> Oh man.
1:50:17>> So like what the winner?
1:50:19>> I would say either um
1:50:22[clears throat] my RV parks business or
1:50:24my my Texas snacks business, my
1:50:26e-commerce business.
1:50:28Um
1:50:29and they weren't easy because they're
1:50:31easy businesses or industry industries.
1:50:33They're easy
1:50:35because
1:50:36I had matured enough to a point to find
1:50:39good operators to run those businesses
1:50:42where I had little to no involvement in
1:50:44them.
1:50:45Does that make sense?
1:50:45>> Yeah. You found people to run them for
1:50:46you so that as a starter they didn't die
1:50:49the minute you got bored.
1:50:50>> Exactly. Whereas
1:50:52>> They carried on growing and evolving.
1:50:53>> Right. Whereas those are both quite hard
1:50:55industries. E-commerce is quite hard and
1:50:57uh and real estate is as well. But I had
1:51:00good operators.
1:51:02>> What have you learned about finding good
1:51:03operators?
1:51:05>> Hm.
1:51:07Oh, man.
1:51:10It all comes down to
1:51:14trust.
1:51:16How much trust am I able to put in them?
1:51:18How much trust do I have them? I've
1:51:19found a
1:51:21um a direct correlation between people I
1:51:23know really well
1:51:24um and people that have made really good
1:51:26operators.
1:51:27>> How do you incentivize them?
1:51:29>> Directly from the profits of the
1:51:31business.
1:51:32>> So that they feel more like a
1:51:34entrepreneur. They've got more of a of a
1:51:35piece of the pie.
1:51:36>> Yeah. I made the mistake in my 20s of
1:51:40dangling a carrot of equity too often,
1:51:42genuinely meaning it. Like
1:51:45but it most equity goes to zero.
1:51:47Period. Um I put a lot more emphasis on
1:51:50cash flow now in my 30s than I do on
1:51:52equity. I think equity's overrated. And
1:51:55so nowadays I'm less likely to give an
1:51:57operating partner equity,
1:51:59not because I don't think they deserve
1:52:01it, but because it's more likely to go
1:52:02to zero. And I'm more likely to cut them
1:52:04in on the profits so they can get paid
1:52:07ongoing.
1:52:08>> On an annual basis or quarterly basis,
1:52:09etc?
1:52:10>> Quarterly, yeah.
1:52:11>> Interesting.
1:52:12Hm.
1:52:13[clears throat] Is there any side
1:52:14hustles that you've heard about that you
1:52:16wish you'd started?
1:52:18>> It's It's because a lot of the ones that
1:52:20I wish I started, I started. Like a lot
1:52:21of the 80 that I've done, I just It's
1:52:24something that I thought about for two
1:52:25weeks. I can't get it out of my head and
1:52:26I just I have to get it out of my head.
1:52:28And so if I start something and it
1:52:29fails,
1:52:31I don't really care because I don't
1:52:32invest a lot of money into it and I
1:52:34answered the question. I don't have to
1:52:35like stay up at night wondering if that
1:52:37thing would have worked anymore.
1:52:38Sometimes I'll like run these tests on
1:52:40Facebook that show me such amazing
1:52:42results that just kind of unlock an
1:52:46opportunity for me. Can I give you an
1:52:47analogy?
1:52:48>> Yeah.
1:52:48>> Have you ever been deep sea fishing?
1:52:50>> Uh not deep sea fishing, no.
1:52:52>> Okay. So here's a real story.
1:52:54I was out deep deep sea fishing
1:52:56and we were just throwing lures and we
1:52:58weren't getting any any uh bites.
1:53:00And the captain reaches in under the
1:53:02seat and he pulls out straws from
1:53:04McDonald's.
1:53:05McDonald's straws specifically
1:53:08because they have red and yellow stripes
1:53:09along the side of them. And he pulled
1:53:11out scissors and he started cutting them
1:53:12into fourths.
1:53:14And then he he took the hook off the
1:53:16line and he he put the string through
1:53:18the straw and then he tied the hook back
1:53:20on. He's like, I know it seems crazy,
1:53:22just stick with me. And we cast it out
1:53:24and we started getting bites.
1:53:26And I'm like, what? It was It was the
1:53:27same place with the same lure, same
1:53:30hook, with just a straw. And I'm like,
1:53:32what Why does this work?
1:53:34And he's like,
1:53:36it's the colors. It's like the white and
1:53:38the red and and it just spins as you
1:53:40reel it in and it it mimics a fish.
1:53:42And I was like, how did you learn this?
1:53:44Like what made you think to try this?
1:53:46He's like, I don't know.
1:53:47Uh maybe alcohol was involved, I don't
1:53:49know.
1:53:49But like that worked and we started
1:53:51catching fish the rest of the day.
1:53:53So it just got me thinking like
1:53:55entrepreneurship is this massive ocean
1:53:57with millions of varieties of fish,
1:53:59billions of fish, some sharks, some
1:54:01minnows. And so many of us go out there
1:54:04and we cast a few times and we just go
1:54:05back home. We're like, entrepreneurship
1:54:06doesn't work. It's not for me. Back to
1:54:08the 9 to 5.
1:54:09But we're not testing enough enough
1:54:10stuff. There's different depths, there's
1:54:12different baits. We could spray
1:54:13something on it to make it smell
1:54:15different. We could put a McDonald's
1:54:16straw on it. And occasionally we'll find
1:54:18something, we'll get a bite.
1:54:20Maybe we won't get another bite for
1:54:21another hour, but the is a signal and
1:54:23it's like,
1:54:24oh, there's something there.
1:54:25Okay, let's try that again, but try
1:54:27this. Or maybe let's just cast 100 more
1:54:28times, and then you get a fish, and then
1:54:30you get a bigger fish. And like the more
1:54:32you're out there, not just focusing on
1:54:34one type of fishing, but increasing your
1:54:36surface area and trying all kinds of
1:54:38different things, the more you learn.
1:54:41Like the more you you test and like now
1:54:43you have a bunch of sharks in the boat,
1:54:44and you have this, and you have this,
1:54:45and you have all these options at your
1:54:47disposal. We're eating shark tonight.
1:54:48We're eating grouper. We're eating
1:54:49snapper. You have this amazing life
1:54:51that's dynamic and full of color, and
1:54:53all these other awesome things are
1:54:55coming into play because you stayed out
1:54:57there, and you didn't just do one thing.
1:54:58You tried all these other things.
1:55:00So that's how I look at business. Like
1:55:02I'm out there on the ocean testing other
1:55:04things, and even if I don't catch
1:55:05anything, it's fun. And uh I think other
1:55:08people should try that, too.
1:55:10>> A lot of people want sexy stuff, don't
1:55:11they?
1:55:12>> Yeah.
1:55:12>> They want to build the next Facebook, or
1:55:14they want to do the a chat GPT or the AI
1:55:16app that does this, that, and the other.
1:55:19Do you think that's in part a trap for
1:55:21for the average person to be aiming at
1:55:23sexy?
1:55:24>> Yeah, because the fact that everyone
1:55:26wants sexy means the fact that the sexy
1:55:27things are the most competitive.
1:55:29It's the exact reason why we should go
1:55:31as unsexy as possible because no one's
1:55:33looking at it.
1:55:37>> And looking forward, Chris, what is um
1:55:39is there anything that you're mulling
1:55:40over now in terms of new business ideas
1:55:43that you could give me?
1:55:44>> Man, I
1:55:46lately it's been about like stuff I can
1:55:47launch with my content.
1:55:49Um I like I love the phrase unfair
1:55:52advantage,
1:55:53right?
1:55:54I will only start businesses today where
1:55:56I have an unfair advantage.
1:55:58E- Everyone has an unfair advantage in
1:55:59something, right? Even a a 13-year-old
1:56:02has an unfair advantage. They might know
1:56:04Roblox better than anyone, right?
1:56:07So unfair advantage is not, you know,
1:56:09only for the rich or the wealthy or the
1:56:10elite or the most experienced or the
1:56:11PhDs, right? So I try to start
1:56:14businesses
1:56:15where I have an unfair advantage. And
1:56:16that might be because I can grow it with
1:56:18my content. It might be because I have a
1:56:20bunch of friends in that space or I have
1:56:21unique knowledge or insight into that
1:56:23space. So
1:56:25if I have a zillion ideas and a
1:56:26spreadsheet a mile long with a bunch of
1:56:28business ideas, the ones I'm most likely
1:56:30to start are the ones where I have an
1:56:31unfair advantage.
1:56:32>> A right to win.
1:56:35I have this phrase called mirage
1:56:36opportunity,
1:56:38>> Mm.
1:56:38>> which um
1:56:39which I use when I look at an industry
1:56:43that never seems to work for anybody but
1:56:45seems so obvious.
1:56:47>> Mm.
1:56:48>> Do you know what I'm saying?
1:56:48>> Yeah, I do. I'm thinking of something,
1:56:49yeah.
1:56:50>> And I I I this has been a bit of a a way
1:56:52for me to know what not to work on is if
1:56:54I see everybody trying to solve this
1:56:56particular problem and nobody's been
1:56:57successful, yet more and more people are
1:56:59plowing in and yet it seems obvious to
1:57:01me, I just stay away from it.
1:57:02>> Mhm.
1:57:02>> Because there's something in
1:57:04my understanding of consumer behavior or
1:57:08current alternatives that I'm like
1:57:09misunderstanding.
1:57:11>> Mhm.
1:57:11>> An example I'll give you.
1:57:14Everyone at the moment is trying to
1:57:15start a So that this is the first the
1:57:18sort of first principles they're
1:57:19reasoning up from. They're saying people
1:57:21are more lonely than ever before.
1:57:22They're saying
1:57:25there's no clear place to organize a
1:57:28group of people. WhatsApp has its um has
1:57:31its limitations, its restrictions,
1:57:33doesn't have the feature set one would
1:57:34like. Facebook groups aren't working for
1:57:36a certain generation of people anymore
1:57:38for for sort of Gen Z's and younger
1:57:39generations, millennials. So what I'm
1:57:41going to do is I'm going to make an app
1:57:43for groups.
1:57:44>> Mhm.
1:57:44>> Your run club,
1:57:46your friends, your piano recital group,
1:57:48your your entrepreneurs, going to build
1:57:50all the group features into this app
1:57:52and it's going to be dedicated to that.
1:57:54I've heard this pitch over and over
1:57:55again. I've seen all of them. None of
1:57:56them seem to have any traction or work.
1:57:58It's a mirage. Something fundamental
1:58:00about your assumptions is off.
1:58:02>> Yeah.
1:58:03>> When I said mirage opportunities, did
1:58:05you think of anything in particular?
1:58:06I stay away
1:58:07Just say I stay away from businesses
1:58:09where where I I don't know why it's not
1:58:11working, but clearly it's not working.
1:58:12>> Yeah. I think of banking or healthcare,
1:58:15right? Like banking is terrible. Like
1:58:16look at the UI at Bank of America. It's
1:58:18why is it it's like
1:58:20Ah, it's probably like that for a
1:58:21reason, right? Or like Amazon's UI is
1:58:24terrible. Like why is it? It's like they
1:58:25probably know why it looks like that,
1:58:27right? I assume smarter than I am.
1:58:29One idea that I thought of is like
1:58:31everyone hates typing in their password
1:58:32a zillion times a day. So, you have like
1:58:33these password managers, but I've seen a
1:58:35dozen companies that are like going to
1:58:36fix the password, right? Some like
1:58:39replacement to a password, and they've
1:58:41all failed.
1:58:42And it's probably because it's it's a
1:58:43really hard problem to solve, and I
1:58:45don't want to try to invest in a person
1:58:46that's trying to solve it cuz statistics
1:58:48are not on their side.
1:58:50>> Another one that comes to mind for me is
1:58:51at university, every entrepreneurial
1:58:53college kid decides that they're going
1:58:54to build a on campus what's going on app
1:58:57>> Mm.
1:58:58>> to let everybody know what's going on on
1:58:59campus.
1:58:59>> Yeah.
1:59:00>> And they never seem to work.
1:59:01>> Yeah.
1:59:03>> And I think the reason why they don't
1:59:04work is because both you're losing 33%
1:59:06of your potential customers every year
1:59:08and gaining 33% new customers every
1:59:10year. So, you have a bit of an
1:59:11acquisition problem. But then also,
1:59:12people don't decide what they're going
1:59:14to do based on some notice board. They
1:59:15decide based on their dorm room friends
1:59:18and where they're going and where the
1:59:19girl they like is going.
1:59:20And you And so, it's not really about
1:59:22what's going on. It's like what does my
1:59:24group of people want to do? I think
1:59:25that's
1:59:27I think that's the mirage in that.
1:59:29>> Well, I thought of another example
1:59:30that's like building apps around
1:59:31podcasting.
1:59:33>> Oh my god, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:59:34>> I have a friend that he had a podcast
1:59:36>> A great one.
1:59:37>> that helped podcasters, right? And it
1:59:39was great. Like really, I listened to
1:59:41it.
1:59:42And he he realized over time like I'm
1:59:44selling to a market that quits,
1:59:47right? I'm asking for customers to pay
1:59:48for my thing that are statistically Like
1:59:5095% of them are going to quit within 6
1:59:52months.
1:59:53So, it's just a broken market to sell
1:59:55to. And then the 5% that are successful,
1:59:58what percentage of them are actually
1:59:59profitable? What percentage of them can
2:00:01afford to pay for an expensive agency or
2:00:02software?
2:00:04Very few.
2:00:07>> Mirage opportunities.
2:00:08>> I like that.
2:00:09>> I I would Yeah, it's a It's been a
2:00:11really useful framework because it's the
2:00:13obvious ones that no one's doing, but
2:00:14there's clearly a huge opportunity that
2:00:16I think pulls people in the most. But
2:00:19for me now with the with the amount of
2:00:21time I've spent starting businesses,
2:00:23those are the ones that push me away the
2:00:25most.
2:00:25>> Yeah.
2:00:26Well, it all comes back to the value of
2:00:27just copying what's already working.
2:00:30>> Amen. Is there anything we
2:00:31>> haven't talked about that we should have
2:00:32talked about, Chris?
2:00:33For young and old people that are
2:00:35considering
2:00:37starting their own business or inside
2:00:38hustle,
2:00:39building passive income.
2:00:41>> Many of the people that think they want
2:00:43to be an entrepreneur, they just like
2:00:45the idea of it, and they think there's
2:00:47freedom in entrepreneurship, when
2:00:48oftentimes it's even more of a prison
2:00:50than their 9 to 5.
2:00:52[laughter]
2:00:52It can be at least in the first years,
2:00:54not months, not years, sometimes
2:00:56decades, right?
2:00:57And so I want people to answer the
2:01:00question for themselves, is this for me?
2:01:02So they don't regret.
2:01:05They need to find out if they love the
2:01:06idea of it or they like the actual
2:01:08day-to-day grind of it. Um cuz they they
2:01:12probably won't,
2:01:13but I want them to find out.
2:01:15>> Such an important point because the
2:01:17narrative online at the moment is, you
2:01:18know, be your own boss, etc etc. And I I
2:01:21just
2:01:22I don't think people I'm speaking for
2:01:24myself here. I don't I don't want to
2:01:25speak for you, but I don't think people
2:01:26realize how many people I have to answer
2:01:27to.
2:01:28>> Oh yeah.
2:01:28>> I have all of my team members, which is
2:01:30hundreds of people. Then I have my
2:01:31investors. I have my suppliers, my
2:01:33clients.
2:01:34So it's not like I'm living as a free
2:01:37man.
2:01:37>> Yeah.
2:01:38>> I'm less free now than I was before.
2:01:41>> Yeah.
2:01:42>> Before I started all this stuff.
2:01:43>> Isn't it nice when someone just also
2:01:45just tells you what to do and exactly
2:01:46what path to take?
2:01:48>> Yeah.
2:01:48>> Like my wife does that.
2:01:50She's like, hey, I need you to do this.
2:01:51It's like, oh, it's so nice. I don't
2:01:53have to like
2:01:54think. Like thank you, you know? So I
2:01:56have bosses in other areas of my life
2:01:57and it's really nice. Like there's
2:01:58something to be said for a 9 to 5.
2:02:01And some people have no desire to even
2:02:02test an entrepreneurship. Great, all
2:02:04power to you, but I want people to test
2:02:06it.
2:02:07>> And I think, you know, people would look
2:02:08at someone like me or you and think, oh,
2:02:09you know, they've got total freedom.
2:02:11But this is just not the case. Even for
2:02:13me as a podcaster, you know, I'm I'm now
2:02:15kind of somewhat
2:02:17constrained by the fact that I need to
2:02:18publish on a Monday and I need to
2:02:20publish on a Thursday and that means
2:02:21lots of other work takes place
2:02:22throughout the week and um I can't just
2:02:25go to Hawaii and chill out and spend a
2:02:27month off and then I've got all my
2:02:28clients now and the team members etc. So
2:02:30I'm I'm I think I am starting a bit a
2:02:32war against this idea that
2:02:35independence and total freedom is both
2:02:38something to aim for, but also like
2:02:40realistic
2:02:41when you're pursuing something you love.
2:02:43>> Yeah.
2:02:44>> I think a generation have been sold this
2:02:45idea of independence, and I don't think
2:02:46it's gotten us anywhere.
2:02:47>> Yeah.
2:02:47>> Like that that's the goal, freedom,
2:02:48independence, don't depend on anybody.
2:02:50>> Right.
2:02:51>> But when I look on your your life,
2:02:52you've got four kids.
2:02:54You've got lots of responsibility.
2:02:56You've got employees. You've got
2:02:58businesses. You've got so much
2:02:59dependency.
2:03:02And that's probably the source of much
2:03:03of your happiness.
2:03:04>> Yeah, exactly. My quote of this year is
2:03:07there are no solutions, only trade-offs.
2:03:09>> Mm.
2:03:10>> Entrepreneurship is not a solution.
2:03:11You're trading something for it. The
2:03:13question is, is that trade-off worth it
2:03:15or not?
2:03:16And we won't know until we try it.
2:03:18>> And what's the trade-off you're making?
2:03:19>> Stability, um lack of volatility,
2:03:23um
2:03:25yeah, predictability. My life has been
2:03:27volatile and unpredictable.
2:03:29Um but the more I do it, the more
2:03:30predictable it becomes in a good way.
2:03:33But that's been the trade-off, is the
2:03:35mental load of not knowing where my
2:03:38paycheck's coming from, or if it's
2:03:39coming at all.
2:03:42>> It's not for the faint-hearted.
2:03:44>> No.
2:03:46>> Chris, we have a closing tradition where
2:03:48the last guest leaves a question for the
2:03:49next, not knowing who they're leaving it
2:03:50for. And the question left for you, I
2:03:52love this question for obvious reasons,
2:03:53is during your interview with Steven
2:03:55today, what is one thing he did that you
2:03:57genuinely appreciated?
2:04:04>> I would say that I
2:04:10I appreciate that the questions you
2:04:12asked me got me to look at
2:04:15the things
2:04:17I've been looking at in one way
2:04:18completely differently.
2:04:20I came into this conversation,
2:04:23you know, looking at things in a
2:04:24specific way in in ways that I always
2:04:26have, but your questions got me to
2:04:28approach it from a different angle,
2:04:30um that made me learn something
2:04:33more about my own story
2:04:35if you will.
2:04:37>> And what was that in particular? Was
2:04:39there a specific thing you're thinking
2:04:41about?
2:04:42>> Maybe just the overall framework that
2:04:47maybe it's just recency biased, but
2:04:52just that it's it's not for everyone.
2:04:55It's not for everyone.
2:04:56Um
2:04:57and that
2:04:59we just need to learn if the trade-offs
2:05:00are worth it.
2:05:02>> There's an element of your personal
2:05:04trauma, experiences, upbringing,
2:05:07insecurities, toxic fuel that makes the
2:05:10trade-offs worth it,
2:05:12that makes you in some respect
2:05:13unreasonable,
2:05:14>> Mhm.
2:05:14>> unrealistic, willing to take the risk.
2:05:17And we don't talk about that enough
2:05:18because we're not able to go into
2:05:19people's trauma and the nuance of their
2:05:21life and childhood and what their dad
2:05:22said to them and what the how they were
2:05:23bullied
2:05:24to be able to like
2:05:27trans trans transmit into their mind to
2:05:29make that to figure that out for
2:05:30themselves. But I think probably is in
2:05:33both your life and my life. I mean you
2:05:34both we both I think have ADHD to some
2:05:36degree
2:05:37and we have a brain wired in a certain
2:05:39way.
2:05:40So it's not it can seem like we're
2:05:42making a choice,
2:05:44but I it often doesn't feel like that
2:05:46for me.
2:05:46>> Mm.
2:05:47>> Doesn't feel like I'm making a choice.
2:05:48It feels like there is no other choice.
2:05:50>> Yeah.
2:05:51>> In the same way that one might make a
2:05:52choice to get a 9-to-5 job.
2:05:55I have I I I think for me that would be
2:05:58a terrible thing.
2:05:59>> Yeah.
2:05:59>> And vice versa probably.
2:06:00>> Yeah.
2:06:02Well, what you just said just brought up
2:06:03a memory. I don't know if it's relevant
2:06:04to this or not, but
2:06:06you said ADHD. When I was in undergrad,
2:06:08I got tested for ADHD.
2:06:10And the psychiatrist said
2:06:12um it was a big report. I'm summarizing
2:06:15it to the only sentence that I remember.
2:06:17But she said that I just had delusions
2:06:19of grandeur,
2:06:21right?
2:06:22Uh it wasn't like an official diagnosis.
2:06:23It was one line in like an eight-page
2:06:25document.
2:06:26But I saw that just like bounce off the
2:06:28page and I was like,
2:06:30how do you know that's a delusion,
2:06:32right?
2:06:32Like it's only a delusion if enough time
2:06:34has passed so we could look back and
2:06:36say, yeah, Yeah, wrong. He was way off
2:06:38base.
2:06:38>> By delusions of grandeur, what does she
2:06:40mean?
2:06:41>> She means like I had
2:06:44unrealistic expectations about how my
2:06:46life would turn out.
2:06:48Um and that that was causing strife in
2:06:50my personal relationships.
2:06:53And
2:06:54I thought it was wrong. I still think it
2:06:55was wrong, but it it put a chip on my
2:06:57shoulder. It planted a seed that I never
2:06:59forgot. I have that printed. It's in my
2:07:01my drawer at work. Um
2:07:03>> What does it say?
2:07:05>> Just I just have like literally the
2:07:07report that she gave me back in 2009.
2:07:10Uh it's like highlighted and drawn up in
2:07:12in my in my drawer at work and I just
2:07:14look at it sometimes for motivation
2:07:15because what what is a delusion of
2:07:17grandeur? Like I have plans of grandeur.
2:07:20This is a plan.
2:07:22Um and so I think about her sometimes.
2:07:23She probably has no idea who I am. She
2:07:25probably forgot all about me, but
2:07:29>> If people want to learn more,
2:07:30where's the best place they should go to
2:07:33to check your workout? You've got your
2:07:35podcast on YouTube.
2:07:36>> Mhm.
2:07:37>> Um it's not necessarily a podcast in the
2:07:38same way that this is a podcast. It's
2:07:40much more sort of practical and specific
2:07:41around specific subject matters. So I
2:07:43highly recommend people go check that
2:07:44out. I'm going to link it below and put
2:07:46it on the screen. But where else?
2:07:47Where's a good place to get in touch
2:07:48with you or to consume your work?
2:07:50>> Probably tkopod.com
2:07:53as in
2:07:54the Kerner office. It's just like my
2:07:56main website.
2:07:57>> And people can sign up here for your
2:08:00newsletter?
2:08:00>> yep. Email list.
2:08:02One email per week would you send out?
2:08:05Like a very tactical guide on how to
2:08:07start X, Y, or Z business.
2:08:09And I ask my audience like what they
2:08:11want to learn about. So they tell me and
2:08:12then I dive deep and then break it all
2:08:14down for them.
2:08:15>> I'll link that as well below for anyone
2:08:16that's interested. What is the most
2:08:18popular, most frequent request you get
2:08:21through that website?
2:08:22>> On business ideas to talk about?
2:08:24>> Yeah.
2:08:25>> Probably the AI agency, the AI
2:08:28implementation agency idea that I talked
2:08:30about.
2:08:31>> And what is the most viral video you've
2:08:33ever made?
2:08:34>> Oh man, that was about a um
2:08:38this this Chinese street vendor that
2:08:39sold ice cream.
2:08:41She had this little
2:08:43uh contraption. It was like a frozen
2:08:45cylinder that she poured cream over,
2:08:47and it would scrape off ice cream in
2:08:49this really visually appealing way.
2:08:52so I I basically broke down in 30
2:08:54seconds like you could pay $200 for
2:08:56this, you could post it at any given
2:08:58street corner, and you could make $1,000
2:09:00by the end of the day. So it's like a b
2:09:02c, here's how to get to this revenue. Um
2:09:05and like 30 or 40 million people saw it.
2:09:07>> I'll put the uh the video on the screen
2:09:09for anyone that's interested in that as
2:09:10well, just so you know what
2:09:12this ice cream contraption is.
2:09:13>> Yeah.
2:09:13>> Chris, thank you so much. Thank you so
2:09:15much for for being yourself in every
2:09:17respect. You teach me that there's many
2:09:19ways to skin a cat, as the saying goes.
2:09:21There's many ways to become successful,
2:09:22to be happy, to be motivated in your
2:09:23life. There's many ways to become a
2:09:24millionaire. Some of it bucks sort of
2:09:26conventional wisdom of how to grow
2:09:27business, and I think that is actually
2:09:29liberating to know that your own unique
2:09:32wiring and your own unique perspective
2:09:34and ikigai can drive you to the same
2:09:36outcome of financial freedom if you do
2:09:38have the self-awareness, if you're
2:09:40willing to work hard, and if you can
2:09:41cope with the opinions of others,
2:09:44um
2:09:45and also if you're willing to sacrifice
2:09:46tremendously because you have sacrificed
2:09:47tremendously, and especially as someone
2:09:49as a man that has a young man that has
2:09:51four kids, you've taken on your
2:09:53shoulders a huge amount of risk. And I
2:09:55applaud you for both simplifying and
2:09:57demystifying the pursuit of side hustles
2:10:00and business and entrepreneurship for so
2:10:01many people because
2:10:02I think um in the world we live in, it's
2:10:04probably going to become more and more
2:10:06important that people have more options.
2:10:08>> Agreed.
2:10:09>> Um in a world of AI and if Elon Musk is
2:10:11to be successful in creating the the age
2:10:12of abundance that he's describing,
2:10:14then uh maybe we're all going to end up
2:10:16as entrepreneurs, who knows?
2:10:17>> Who knows? Thank you.
2:10:18>> thank you.
2:10:19>> Thank you as well.
2:10:21>> [music]
2:10:24>> Make sure you keep what I'm about to say
2:10:25to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you
2:10:28to come even deeper into the diary of a
2:10:30CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is
2:10:33a brand new private community that I'm
2:10:35launching to the world. We have so many
2:10:37incredible things that happen that you
2:10:38are never shown. We have the briefs that
2:10:41are on my iPad when I'm recording the
2:10:42conversation. We clips we've never
2:10:44released. We have behind the scenes
2:10:46conversations with the guests, and also
2:10:48the episodes that we've never ever
2:10:50released. And so much more. In the
2:10:53circle you'll have direct access to me.
2:10:55You can tell us what you want this show
2:10:56to be, who you want us to interview, and
2:10:58the types of conversations you would
2:11:00love us to have. But remember for now
2:11:02we're only inviting the first 10,000
2:11:04people that join before it closes. So if
2:11:07you want to join our private close
2:11:08community, head to the link in the
2:11:09description below or go to doac
2:11:12circle.com.
2:11:14I will speak to you there.
2:11:19>> [music]
2:11:26[music]
2:11:31[music]
2:11:38[music]
2:11:39[singing]

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