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💥PAROLE for Susan Smith? SHOCKING True Crime Confessions Revealed — Transcript

by The Behavior Panel · 15,472 words · 2,441 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00susan smith
0:02has been arrested
0:03and will be charged with two counts of
0:06murder
0:07in connection
0:08with the deaths of her children
0:10michael three and alexander 14 months
0:13today we're going to talk about susan
0:15smith and she went to prison for
0:17murdering her two children by putting me
0:19in the leave me in the car and push them
0:21down and ramp into a lake and they drown
0:23so it's tough finding videos on these
0:25but greg tell us what you found
0:27yeah so most of these videos occurred
0:29during the nine days that she pretended
0:31someone had hijacked her car or
0:33carjacked her and taken her children
0:35tied in two back seats
0:37and she actually pushed them down a boat
0:39ramp and they died in the car and were
0:41found later after she confessed this
0:43video as scott said is not the best
0:45quality video but it's all there is and
0:47this is a case that's 20 years old we've
0:49had many requests for this every time we
0:52bring up a murdering mother this one
0:53comes up
0:54okay sleep okay i can't do anything but
0:58think about them
1:00and
1:03i just wanna come separate
1:06and tell them i love greg what do you
1:08got
1:09yeah so right off the beginning of this
1:11it might be true that she wants to hug
1:13them she wants to do this she wants to
1:15do that but she's eye blocking
1:17there is not a single
1:20bit of grief there's no concern nothing
1:22in the forehead there's no snot no tears
1:24it's the worst kind of fake christ scott
1:26i'm so sorry you really don't like what
1:28i did that's all it is this is garbage
1:32chase what do you got
1:33yeah i groovy so this eye closure is not
1:36from the crying
1:38this is exactly what you just said greg
1:40this is avoidance
1:42there's no movement here in the chin
1:43boss which we always see when we see
1:46shame and and grief
1:48there's a hygienic gesture during the
1:50crying
1:52and it's not
1:53to wipe tears which is very unusual so
1:57adjusting your hair while crying uh
1:59doesn't look very good so she's kind of
2:01just pushing her hair back there that's
2:03what we call in the behavior business a
2:04hygienic gesture
2:06and she said i just want to hug them and
2:09she has uh had a tough childhood and i
2:13think
2:13there's a baton gesture she does with
2:15her hand as she's talking her hands back
2:18here
2:19[Music]
2:20i think it's her left hand and
2:22what something that we always look for
2:24is things that don't line up scott talks
2:26about this in a lot of the other videos
2:28when a gesture doesn't really match up
2:30with a person's phrases
2:32uh the desmond morris called this a
2:34baton gesture
2:36and what i think is interesting here is
2:38that the gesture doesn't match up with
2:40anything that's going on it doesn't
2:41match up emotionally
2:43tonely like with the tone of her voice
2:46or the cadence or the words that she's
2:47saying
2:49so i would like to invent a new uh a
2:51name for what we're seeing here where it
2:53doesn't match up with anything and just
2:54call it gesture arrhythmia
2:57so okay i called it uh
3:00illustrator non-alignment or something
3:03like that word alignment in there for
3:05those very so it's close
3:06very good fast
3:08i think this is uh
3:10this gesture isn't associated with
3:12sadness or grief or loss or anything
3:14there
3:15and
3:16that's all i got for this video mark
3:18what do you see yep so uh i agree there
3:21is what i would call incongruence but
3:24but i think you're talking about some
3:25extreme incongruence where it just
3:28doesn't really match up with anything so
3:31uh misalignment arrhythmia i think
3:33they're all good descriptions of that
3:35here's what jumps out at me
3:37i i i
3:39them
3:40then the grooming that you were talking
3:42about there i them them i so there's way
3:45more eyes than them
3:48they're they're a
3:50collective there's not even any names of
3:52the children so it's very
3:53egocentric at this point the male is
3:57very different from the female different
3:59rhythm going on not joining in with this
4:02this crying you know even if it is you
4:05know kind of fake he's not even joining
4:07in not joining him with anything real or
4:09fake here and i think he gives a sour
4:12taste in his mouth as well so i think
4:14there is some strong differences between
4:16the male and the female here female here
4:19very self-centered in the description
4:21there and the grooming
4:23as you say chase is just it's just not
4:25applicable in this situation
4:28at all uh
4:30scott what do you got on this one
4:32all right she's moving really slow this
4:34lets us know that she's there's a lot
4:35going on up here she's thinking through
4:37what she's gonna say she she doesn't
4:39really she's not really experiencing
4:40these emotions so we're not seeing them
4:42on her face she's she's showing us what
4:44she thinks we that we want to see or
4:47should be seeing at this point when you
4:49compare susan with her husband
4:52do this throughout all these videos when
4:53he's in there too dramatic i remember i
4:56remember when this happened and i
4:57remember when she got busted or soon
4:59before she got busted because the we'll
5:01see a video
5:03i'll i'll tell you that story when we
5:05get to that video because it's it's
5:07i'll never forget i'll never forget that
5:09day um and everything is based on feel
5:12sorry for me it's all about me and and
5:14and just feel sorry for me i you're
5:16right marcus i me
5:17it's all about me at this point and when
5:19you turn the sound off
5:21as you'll see in all these videos if
5:23you'll do this she looks like she's
5:24retiring from a job somewhere or she
5:28these are the same faces you see in the
5:30same emotions you don't see
5:32that you're not saying when someone's
5:33retiring or someone is
5:36leaving a job and they're telling
5:38everybody goodbye that's what it looks
5:40like it doesn't look like somebody who's
5:41grieving over their children
5:43and it doesn't look like that at all the
5:46stress we're seeing is is when she's
5:48moving slow and not looking up the
5:49camera
5:50and not connecting with anyone
5:52so these are all we're all we're seeing
5:54a bunch of stress on her rightfully so
5:56because she's not telling the truth here
5:58but she's sort of creating this i i
6:00think she had a pretty good idea of what
6:01she was going to say but that was it i
6:03don't think she rehearsed this at all
6:05when she get when it before it came down
6:07to uh game time for showtime for
6:09all right scott i disagree with one
6:11thing you said fully
6:13there's a lot going on in her head i
6:15disagree
6:18okay i stand corrected i can't sleep
6:21okay i can't do anything but think about
6:24that
6:25and
6:28i just want to hug him
6:31and tell him i love
6:35all right
6:37i want to say to my babies
6:39[Music]
6:41your mama loves you so much
6:43and your daddy these whole families love
6:45you so much
6:48and you guys have got to be strong
6:52because you are
6:53we
6:54i just know
6:55i just feel in my heart that you're okay
6:58but you got to take care of each other
7:02and your mom and dad are gonna be right
7:04here waiting on me when you get home
7:07i'm gonna go first on this one because
7:09it goes back to that video
7:11our last uh video when i was telling you
7:13about
7:13uh something happened when this happened
7:16when this video came out there are two
7:17versions of this video we i couldn't i
7:19spent all night last night looking for
7:20the second version of it it's a wider
7:22shot of everybody and it's got family
7:24members and other people in it and she's
7:26talking her eyebrows are up look at
7:28everyone else they show concern their
7:30eyebrows are down like this they're
7:32they're thinking oh my no you know my
7:33lord what's happened
7:35that's when my this is before we even
7:36had cell phones you know or before i had
7:39one anyway my phone started ringing and
7:40it was everybody i knew going did you
7:42just see that on did you just see that
7:44on the news did you see uh susan smith i
7:46was like yeah we're all like holy smokes
7:48man she's going to the pokey because she
7:50did this
7:51and when you when you watch this again
7:53when you when you watch the replay at
7:55least look at her husband that's really
7:56the only one you can see in here look at
7:57his eyebrows that's what her should be
7:59doing showing concern she shows no
8:01concern and again this is all about her
8:04the content is all focused on her on me
8:06on i listen to what she's saying
8:09no brow no brow movement in there no
8:11no expressions really of anything
8:13nothing much moving at all
8:15um
8:18and there's no plea to kidnap her you
8:21know and she's telling these little
8:22children one of them is three and the
8:24other one is a year and a half and she's
8:25saying look take care of each other
8:27really have you ever said that to a
8:30a three-year-old and and the other one
8:32you two take care of each other are you
8:33kidding me if they saw it you know your
8:35mother's gonna nah
8:36she
8:37no she stepped in here so um no anger no
8:41nothing we're seeing none of the
8:42emotions or expressions we should be
8:44seeing here so that's allah and her eye
8:46especially with her eyebrows they
8:48shouldn't be up they should be down she
8:49should be
8:50focused and telling whoever's got her
8:52children that they're going to find him
8:54and
8:55they need to bring him back that's what
8:57should be going on there okay chase what
8:58do you got
9:00even even better i fully agree with that
9:03she met this alleged person who did this
9:06she spent time with this person face to
9:09face
9:11so that even makes it a worse case for
9:14the vanishing perpetrator
9:16and what we're seeing here there's
9:18showing of this more eye contact
9:20avoidant behavior which is what she do
9:22what she's doing this is not avoiding to
9:24stop herself from crying at all
9:26and i think it's interesting to note
9:28that she does this while she her eyes
9:30are staying at kind of five o'clock
9:32because you can see where her eyes are
9:33looking
9:34uh at a certain direction there which
9:37suggests internal dialogue and not any
9:39emotion going on
9:41and
9:43when does the chen boss move it moves a
9:45couple of times here it moves when she's
9:47talking about herself and how good she
9:49is as a mother
9:52and while she's saying a lot of this
9:53stuff we have lip licking
9:55there's uh right at the end here lip
9:57licking there's lip retraction
9:59lip licking is to make ourselves look
10:01brighter lip retraction is typically a
10:03need for reassurance
10:05right there at the end
10:06and there's a complete lack of emotion
10:08so i want you to go look and see what's
10:11missing here if if a person if she had
10:13met and witnessed a person take her
10:15children
10:17what's really missing from this
10:18conversation what's being hidden and
10:21this is what's being hidden from this is
10:23the perpetrator so when there's data
10:24being hidden
10:26that's a huge red flag it should be for
10:27anybody uh greg what do you think
10:30yeah i'll take it a step further she
10:32didn't just meet him she described him
10:35even had an artist draw a picture and it
10:37was all bs it was all made up but here
10:39we see no grief no concern she stumbles
10:42through words because she's trying to
10:43think of what to say i interestingly
10:45scott you say her brows aren't down
10:47they're up but they're not even up
10:48they're just flat they're emotionless
10:50that's even worse if she was going like
10:52this or shock or something we might feel
10:54good about it the only time i see any
10:56concern in her brow at all is when she
10:59says i know you are okay and her brows
11:02do something odd you get a little flash
11:04of something right between her brows
11:05because she knows he isn't now we often
11:07will talk about lipping a lip licking
11:10and that but desmond morris talked about
11:12something called a tongue jet and he
11:14said it's baby's first way to reject
11:16something or something distasteful to
11:17push out we're going to see her do the
11:20morris tongue jump not just this time
11:21but other times too when she talks about
11:24your mama and your daddy and she goes
11:26like that that's a that's a morse tongue
11:29all day
11:30then she bites her lip as she
11:33draws it back in and i think that might
11:34be containment or an adapter this is
11:37ugly this is there's nothing good in
11:39anything she's doing and to your point
11:41scott the husband looks just like he's
11:44out of touch with everything now he's
11:45also they're estranged before she does
11:47this one thing you should know is they
11:49believe that the reason she disposed of
11:51her children is because somebody she had
11:53had an affair or at least a starting
11:55relationship with didn't want children
11:57sound familiar mark what do you get
12:00uh yeah i'll tell you what's missing for
12:01me uh chase and you know whatever's
12:04missing for all of you and you know put
12:06it down there but um it's all i block as
12:11far as i can see so there's zero from
12:14this angle for me there's zero eye
12:16contact with that potential audience who
12:20might have information on where her kid
12:22is you know i would expect and if it
12:25were me
12:26you know to be making a lot of eye
12:28contact with the public and trying to
12:30get information across is here's who
12:32we're looking for and if you know
12:33anything all of those standard things
12:36i'm getting none of that um yeah the lip
12:39licking the biting as well
12:41they're very
12:43out of the ordinary for what we saw from
12:45her before so they kind of come out of
12:48nowhere that rings alarm bells it's
12:50around when you get home so there's
12:53something
12:54about that that push on when you get
12:57home and the lip bite there that's
12:59alarming for me as well
13:02biggest alarming thing for me is
13:05when i usually see
13:06you know a couple or a mother or father
13:09or any kind of you know primary
13:11caregiver who is in this situation
13:15the emotions collide it's quite complex
13:18there's a lot going on because they're
13:19trying to get information across as well
13:22they've got the job of trying to contact
13:23the audience they've got this job of
13:26trying to hold themselves together while
13:28doing that their mind is in a thousand
13:31places trying to understand what might
13:33be happening
13:34with this kid here well you know
13:36regardless of what emotion she's doing
13:39or isn't doing it's super simple what's
13:42going on it's too simple as far as i'm
13:45concerned now often what we get is with
13:47this collision of emotions it's quite
13:50complex and and often observers will
13:52look at it and go oh there's something
13:54up there they're summing up because it's
13:55not easily understandable i usually
13:58expect it to not be easily
14:00understandable because this is a
14:02situation that no human being on the
14:05planet has rehearsed for they haven't
14:08had that moment of well you know what
14:09when my kids go missing here's how i'll
14:12handle my feelings here's how i'll
14:14understand this situation well she's
14:16handling herself in a very simplistic
14:18way here that rings alarm bells for me
14:21uh that's all i got in that one have we
14:22all we all been yeah
14:25good
14:27i want to say to my babies
14:31your mama loves you so much and your
14:34daddy these whole families love you so
14:36much
14:39and you guys have got to be strong
14:42because you are we
14:44i just know
14:46i just feel in my heart that you're okay
14:48but you gotta take care of each other
14:53and your mom and dad are gonna be right
14:54here waiting on you when you get home
14:58i'll be getting a haircut this week this
15:00hat will go off come off
15:02he said no he didn't have time because
15:04they were in car seats and it was going
15:06to take time for me to get him out of
15:07the car seat and um
15:09they just told me he said but i won't
15:10hurt him he just took off
15:12but he had a gun and
15:15my my big thing is they were screaming
15:18hollering crying and
15:20i'm just scared that he just lost his
15:22patience or something all right greg
15:24what do you got so let me tell you that
15:26when people go through trauma especially
15:29something like losing a child they're
15:31going to have really mixed emotions and
15:33mark you're really good at pointing out
15:34that not everybody reacts the same i
15:36think what you see though is a lot of
15:38difficulty containing emotions there
15:40will be things bleeding all over a
15:42person's face from known to this kind of
15:43duress there should be some negativity
15:45in their forehead and that kind of thing
15:47but we can't tell you exactly what's
15:48going to happen what we don't see
15:50usually in a person who has experienced
15:52what she has experienced
15:54is this normal kind of conversational
15:57tone because there'll at least be some
15:58stress to the voice and those kinds of
16:00things there's no storyboard on her face
16:02at all though again there's no grief no
16:04concern no anxiety no stress
16:06she's telling a story this is rehearsed
16:08and prepared and as much as she could
16:10and you can see she'll look over and try
16:12to recall a couple of words we're going
16:13to see her do that again and then she
16:16throws out details again i always say
16:18the truth doesn't need support but lies
16:20love a crutch this is a crutch well he
16:22had a gun and well the kids were in the
16:24back seat and they were strapped in so
16:26he he didn't want to take the time and
16:28there's that and um
16:30desmond moore's tongue shot again here
16:32we go blink rate goes up she's getting a
16:34little amusement in her face or
16:35something like she thinks she's getting
16:37away with it and the only time she shows
16:39any emotional accessing is when she says
16:42screaming hollering and crying and she
16:44looks down and to the right my guess is
16:47that's real that's exactly what she
16:48heard is them screaming and yelling is
16:50there banging on the windows trying to
16:52get out of the car she pushed them in
16:53and then she uses the most
16:55illogical thing i've ever heard
16:58he had a gun so i had to let him take
16:59him
17:01okay i'll leave it at that scott what do
17:03you got
17:04yeah listen to i agree with you 100
17:06listen to what she said she's talking
17:08about this conversation she had with
17:10this guy he said you know he had a gun
17:12he said he was you know he wouldn't hurt
17:14him
17:15there's no conversation during things
17:16like that if this happened this quickly
17:19and this guy's adrenaline if this
17:21supposed yeah his adrenaline is going to
17:23be just through the roof so is hers and
17:25she's going to be trying to protect the
17:27children she's not going to be trying to
17:28have this conversation about stopping
17:30him from taking the children she's going
17:31to be saying don't know those kind of
17:33things and she crawls back there and
17:35tries to protect the children
17:37that's why a lot of times these things
17:38get real ugly really fast with the
17:40person that gets you always hear a woman
17:42injured or a man injured or whether a
17:44child was in the car because they don't
17:46want him to take the child i mean they
17:48have the car or whatever but there's no
17:49conversation going on there there's no
17:51room for that there's no time for that's
17:52completely made up
17:54and we're seeing confidence here i
17:55believe because
17:57she knows she's
17:58there's there's nothing that she can get
18:00dropped before at this point she's
18:01rehearsed this answer you're right greg
18:02and so we're seeing confidence she's
18:04just saying this here's the logically
18:06why this happened
18:07so it makes total sense to me i won't
18:09say she's not the smartest person in the
18:11world i always say that but that's why
18:12she's so calm dude confidence and you're
18:14right greg no concern
18:16nothing we're seeing we're not seeing
18:18the emotions we should see
18:20she's talking a pretty good clip too
18:22so everything here i think she's
18:24confident with her answer at this point
18:26i think she doesn't think anything's
18:27going to happen to her mark what do you
18:29got
18:30yeah great
18:31uh
18:32look this isn't the vanishing
18:34perpetrator here because she she
18:38knows for some reason the psychology of
18:41this
18:42perpetrator so given that we know
18:45this event didn't happen where is she
18:47getting the psychology from well i would
18:50suggest it's her psychology this is a
18:52rorschach test essentially this is an
18:54ink blot she's got to create
18:57reasoning for why these things happen
19:00and she creates them for her own from
19:03her own reasoning didn't have time
19:06going to take time
19:08he lost his patience or something
19:11so here's what i'm gonna speculate don't
19:13know anything about this particular
19:16crime first time i've ever come across
19:18it
19:19there was some situation that was
19:22pushing her time
19:24and therefore
19:26that's why she did this act because she
19:28felt crushed by time and something had
19:31to happen
19:32quickly around this we hear time stated
19:36again and again and again
19:38about a situation that didn't happen she
19:41has to be getting that from what's at
19:43the forefront of her mind at the time
19:47which is time and patience and running
19:50out of time in some in some way it's a
19:53what we're seeing here in this story is
19:55a projection of her own psychology by
19:59the way that's just speculation i don't
20:01know that for sure but i'd be willing to
20:03give a good gamble on it chase what do
20:05you got on this one
20:07you know how i think uh we can tell this
20:10is rehearsed is she stays past tense the
20:13entire time
20:14and lots of people
20:16even smart people have a very tough time
20:19doing that so i think this is rehearsed
20:21that way
20:22there's a huge blink rate spike greg you
20:24mentioned it
20:26in the original video just before this
20:28she was at about 22
20:30and then it spikes to about 79 right
20:33when she kind of launches into this
20:35memorized story
20:36and there's a little bit of lip luck
20:38licking just before this deception story
20:41starts and starts talking about this guy
20:42but think about how we use the word just
20:45the doctor says it's just going to be
20:47it's going to be a little hair pull or
20:48just a little pinch
20:50or if i say what'd you do what'd you do
20:52on tuesday you said i just went to work
20:55the word just means that's it
20:57and it's not that big of a deal and
20:59that's it
21:00and that's how we use the word just so
21:02let me just give you a few instances of
21:04that here in this
21:06just this one clip it's
21:08just let me take them he just told me
21:10just took off
21:12uh
21:13just
21:14let him
21:16i can't remember what he said but
21:18there's two there's three more uses of
21:20the word just in here i was just scared
21:22as what she said
21:24and
21:25the whole entire thing she's just using
21:28that over and over and over to say
21:30that's all there is to make us just jump
21:32over i've used it twice now over that
21:35story as fast as we possibly can
21:38so that's all i got on that one
21:42he said no he didn't have time because
21:43they were in car seats and it was going
21:45to take time for me to get them out of
21:46the car seat and um
21:48they just told me he said but i won't
21:49hurt him he just took off
21:51but he had a gun and
21:54my my big thing is they were screaming
21:57hollering crying and
22:00i'm just scared that he just lost his
22:02patience or something
22:04are you there at the time and do you
22:05know what they were looking for
22:08no ma'am i was not there and
22:11i do not know i
22:13i did agree
22:14sign a form for them to do that i was
22:16aware they were going to do that
22:18and i understand that's just one of the
22:22normalities they have to do in any
22:24investigation all right chase what do
22:26you got
22:28we see a little internal dialogue just
22:30to come up with the word normality or
22:32maybe to recall that word
22:34normality which i'm sure she's heard
22:36from a lawyer or
22:38something
22:39i think it's a good example of her usage
22:42of
22:42this eye movement for her so if you see
22:45her eye movement in this video
22:47uh
22:48a lot of the eye movement you'll see is
22:49most likely truthful because she may not
22:52understand some of this stuff or she
22:53understands that this is a normality
22:56as part of this
22:58and that's all i got scott
23:03okay i think she's i don't have much on
23:06this one at all she's just calm this is
23:08she's thought about what she's gonna say
23:10and she's she's ready for the threat
23:12that's why her head's back like that and
23:13she looks a little bit cocky because
23:15she's prepared for the threat there
23:17because she's got her answer prepared
23:19that's all i got on that one mark what
23:20do you got yeah you're right it's it's
23:22back rather than forward isn't it it's
23:26very non-urgent
23:28once again you know if it were me if it
23:30were you like you'd be really urgent
23:32about this like my center of gravity
23:34would be right forward because i'd be
23:36wanting to get into action and contact
23:39uh that audience now in this particular
23:42situation it may be that there is no
23:43monitor in front of her um and so and so
23:47there might be some oddness there that
23:49she's getting a sound feed in somewhere
23:51there's nobody else to look at possibly
23:53i don't know but regardless of that that
23:56the head is as you say scott the head's
23:58back
23:59almost in arrogance
24:01there
24:02so there could be that element of
24:03arrogance and it certainly set two back
24:06to be to be non-urgent um
24:08lots of non-contractions in there so you
24:11know the fullness of the word that's
24:13kind of odd she's very
24:15civil
24:16during this so she's very agreeable uh
24:19and and she says i i did agree
24:22to that uh normality so i would say
24:25she's trying to socialize
24:28the normal acceptable situation here
24:30she's trying to convince us here you
24:32know what nothing to look at very normal
24:35situation going on here where me or you
24:38we'd be like there is nothing normal
24:40about this we have i have not rehearsed
24:42for this moment in my life i don't know
24:44what i'm doing here i i just got to get
24:47information out to the public out there
24:49about
24:50let's let's help me help me help me
24:52there's none of that very odd uh greg
24:54what do you got on this one yeah i think
24:56she just ain't too swift i think what
24:58she's doing is she's sitting there while
25:00we're giving her credit for holding her
25:01head up in arrogance
25:02she's back against the back of the chair
25:04braced she's ready for what's coming i
25:07think she
25:08she is afraid of this woman and you'll
25:10see it more in some of the others when
25:11she's on that couch she's braced she's
25:13rigid and wooden and her head's up kind
25:16of in fear rather than in you know we
25:18always think of covering our throats but
25:20then again some people don't and if they
25:22think they're trying to look natural
25:24they look more wooden as they lock
25:25themselves down she's overly polite
25:27which makes me think the same thing when
25:29somebody's overly polite and they're on
25:30their best behavior and they're trying
25:32to use their most polished language like
25:35normalities or some others we'll hear
25:37her use we're getting her trying to
25:39appear to be helpful she's on her best
25:41behavior her blink rate is through the
25:43roof and she's all that complicated
25:45language is her chance to try to look
25:47like she's being helpful and then the
25:49last thing for me is her brow and her
25:51brow doesn't move much but it raises it
25:53when she says i do not know just quickly
25:56like that i think she's scared and this
25:59is her chance to try to put on her best
26:01act put her best heirs and try to get
26:03out of trouble she did this on three
26:05network news shows and this one i think
26:07is is this was katie couric is this the
26:10one yeah so
26:11she did it all three that's it that's
26:13what i got
26:14you there at the time and do you know
26:16what they were looking for
26:18uh no mama was not there and
26:21i do not know i
26:23i did agree
26:25sign a form for them to do that i was
26:26aware they were going to do that
26:28and i understand that's just one of the
26:32normalities they have to do in any
26:34investigation
26:36those sounds coming through here y'all
26:38no no can't hear it what sounds all
26:40right
26:41mila's wearing the cone of shame uh
26:43right now
26:45that's too bad so she's running into
26:47everything
26:48let's get let's get that lean in you
26:50ready
26:51oh yeah yeah
26:53let's go the next video
26:56[Music]
26:58sources close to the investigation susan
27:01have told nbc news that federal agents
27:03are focusing in fact on the relationship
27:06between you and
27:07mitchell sinclair that the man that you
27:09were going to visit that night the man
27:11you said you were going to visit with
27:12your children
27:14uh they've told nbc that there were
27:16inconsistencies
27:17in your stories do you know what
27:19inconsistencies they were referring to
27:22uh no ma'am i really did not know that
27:25um
27:26all right chase what do you got
27:29yeah we see her stop herself from
27:31smiling here
27:32which is pretty unusual and
27:36i'm just going to leave that to you guys
27:38to what to walk through and kind of
27:39dissect
27:41there is
27:42some pucker some lip compression there's
27:44licking uh there's lip retraction going
27:47on here which suggests all kinds of crap
27:51you guys can dissect that too but one
27:53thing i really want to pick on
27:55is watch her blink rate
27:58from before she hears the word
28:00relationship when she actually learns
28:03what the question is about
28:05and watch the change in blink rate
28:07before the word relationship and then
28:09after the word relationship and you will
28:11see a
28:13perfect example of what we always talk
28:15about
28:16and there's also some hesitancy here
28:18there's this qualifier where she uses
28:20the word really
28:21in the middle of her denial there's a
28:23non-contraction but please keep in mind
28:26we just saw an example of her most
28:28likely being truthful with a
28:30non-contraction
28:32and there's also some double access to
28:35internal dialogue to craft an answer and
28:37that would mean that there is accessing
28:39to internal dialogue remaking eye
28:41contact and then going back down again
28:43in quick succession
28:46which is also a pretty large red flag
28:49and we know this is deceptive already so
28:51i'll give my answer at 100
28:53how about that
28:55scott what do you think
28:57all right i thought when she said um
29:00do you know what inconsistencies
29:03what what inconsistencies were made or
29:05whatever i thought she was going to say
29:06do you know what i did consistencies
29:08means yeah
29:09to god and i laughed so hard after that
29:11because i thought she was talking down
29:12to her
29:13anyway at the top we see her lips you're
29:16right chase we see lip person we see
29:18retraction we see all kinds of things in
29:20there because what she's talking about
29:22she's she's
29:24it's catching her a little bit off guard
29:25because she brings up the guys she's
29:26seeing she want to hear about that
29:29but at the same right before that she
29:31says something that makes her that is
29:32like yeah it makes her feel like you
29:33know that's okay because she smiles at
29:35that point it's not duping delight
29:37because at that point she's not saying
29:39anything or she's duping anybody
29:41but
29:42there's a whole lot going on there so
29:44and especially when she gets back to the
29:46to the the part about the guy she's
29:48going to see watch there because we see
29:50full on a lip pursing there and that and
29:53that indicates that the per that that
29:55person is uh doesn't agree with what's
29:58being said and she sees it as a threat
30:00also when you see your eyes darting
30:02around
30:04that indicates the person is going
30:05through
30:06and um processing the threat processing
30:10whatever's being said and getting and
30:12getting ready to as they structure their
30:14answer for that threat that's what we're
30:16looking at there um
30:18that's that's all i got on that one
30:19craig what do you got
30:21yeah that eye that eye movement can mean
30:23that she is processing information it
30:25can also mean that she is looking for an
30:27answer to something that she doesn't
30:28have i mean
30:30she's prepared for all this stuff and
30:31she's probably got something she wants
30:32to say there's also a high likelihood in
30:35her case that she can't hold a thought
30:37long enough to answer that question
30:39because if you watch how she behaves she
30:41rambles and does whatever and then
30:43throws out something
30:44here's what's interesting she's a low
30:46horsepower romancer because most
30:48romancers when they look at you they
30:50make really good eye contact she'll say
30:52something and make really quick eye
30:53contact and then break away again
30:55probably something that's a learned
30:56behavior she was in an abusive childhood
30:58and that kind of thing so there's
31:00probably some of that not making really
31:01solid eye contact
31:03but that actual smile that she tries to
31:05hide is when she's thinking about this
31:07relationship or something comes up and
31:09then she breaks eye contact and does
31:11that tongue shot again is she going into
31:13memory is there something going on
31:14because then her blink rate goes through
31:16the roof her breathing goes up and she
31:18does that nervous confirming nod about
31:20the guy so it makes me think she's got
31:22some kind of positive thing going on her
31:24head about the guy but then realizes oh
31:26oh that was the wrong thing to do makes
31:28quick eye contact and does that the nod
31:32she does a mouth grooming and when she
31:34says no ma'am her brows flash
31:36we only see this eyebrow flash when she
31:39is doing something
31:41that's negative so far as far as i can
31:43tell mark what do you got yeah so i
31:45agree there is a complexity of emotions
31:48happening here which she hasn't
31:49rehearsed
31:50for delivering or controlling in any way
31:54so i think this idea of the boyfriend uh
31:56that comes up and and it there's a real
32:00emotion that comes with that and she
32:03doesn't know what to do with that and
32:04she suppresses that delight
32:08and it would be so easy to go
32:10to see that as jupiter's delight but
32:12scott you're absolutely right this is
32:14not jupiter's delight because it's the
32:16suppression of a real feeling of her
32:19imagining her boyfriend and she hasn't
32:21she hadn't prepared for this question in
32:24any way so there's this huge kind of
32:26collision in many ways
32:29you know this is her being very real
32:31with us
32:32because she's not good when not
32:34rehearsed of being simple enough and
32:38controlling her feelings so we get that
32:40suppression of delight
32:42and then she lets it out she hasn't
32:45fully managed to suppress it we get the
32:47lip lick there's a lot of swallowing
32:49goes on there
32:50um
32:51non-contractions polite
32:54as well so some elements that we've seen
32:56before uh yeah i think that's all i have
32:58to say about that one
33:00sources close to the investigation susan
33:02uh
33:03have told nbc news that federal agents
33:06are focusing in fact on the relationship
33:08between you and
33:09mitchell sinclair that the man that you
33:11were going to visit that night the man
33:13you said you were going to visit with
33:14your children
33:16uh they've told nbc that there were
33:18inconsistencies
33:20in your stories do you know what
33:21inconsistencies they were referring to
33:24uh no ma'am i really did not know that
33:27um
33:28okay
33:29[Music]
33:33okay
33:35that's good i may have heard of me
33:38after this long time i just
33:40[Music]
33:42i just don't feel like i just
33:45it's just been so long and i think if
33:47they were okay then they would have been
33:48found by now but
33:51the hardest part is just not knowing
33:53i mean you know and
33:55my heart just aches and i miss them so
33:58much i just can't express it and
34:02and it's just a tragedy
34:05and i just pray and pray and pray that
34:07they'll come home safe
34:11all right
34:13chase what do you got i hate to keep
34:14going no i keep going on you first chase
34:16but as it ends up if i do the last
34:18person uh you know whoever went last if
34:21i do them first then i'm trying to do no
34:23matter wait let me pretend i'm coming
34:25back
34:26all right
34:28greg what do you got
34:30so she's shaking her head no this is
34:32late in the nine-day ride she's covered
34:34a whole lot of stuff during this time
34:36and she's gotten away with a whole lot
34:38this first time we see this
34:40and it isn't fitting for what she's
34:43talking about so i think she's like oh
34:45this is coming to an end because they've
34:47been questioning her over and over and
34:49over and over so something negative is
34:51rising her brows are up again at it's a
34:54tragedy still no grief still no
34:56uncertainty still no questioning she
34:58makes eye contact at please come home
35:02again i think that's when she's trying
35:04to sell something and she does a
35:05throwaway word or a fading fact as you
35:07would call it scott at safe it just
35:09drifts off she knows that's not going to
35:11happen mark what do you got
35:13yeah so apart from that one moment where
35:16she clocks the audience with her eye
35:18contact on the whole she's in shade most
35:21of the time if not eye blocking most of
35:24the time so again
35:26there's a a moment here you know if
35:28truly you had hope
35:31this would be another opportunity to be
35:33going you got any information here's you
35:36know get it to us
35:37we're in hope and and clocking the
35:40audience directly she's in shade all of
35:42the time
35:43she says
35:44i
35:46every about every two and a half seconds
35:49so that's a lot of you know it's quite a
35:51longish clip that's a lot of the word i
35:54she does mention
35:56them again as a collective but doesn't
35:59mention the kids by name in any way the
36:02main focus
36:04of this is herself
36:06that's not what i would expect from
36:08somebody who is
36:10honestly concerned about their children
36:13at this point she's concerned about
36:15herself
36:17um
36:18yeah and then the use of the word
36:19tragedy
36:21uh it's like it takes a long long time
36:24for a human being to view
36:26the drama that they've been through as a
36:30as a tragedy a long long time this is
36:33too early for her to be able to pull out
36:35of this event and go look given given
36:38all of these elements that were in there
36:40i view this as a real tragedy
36:43so wrong vocabulary to use at this point
36:46scott what do you go on this one
36:48all right again what you're saying it's
36:49her it's all about her it's i over and
36:51over and over again and we're seeing
36:53trans behavior here because she's i
36:55think they've got her against the ropes
36:57at this point in in this part of the end
36:59of their interview we don't see the
37:00whole interview just this one part
37:02that's why she goes into oh i'm just and
37:04she starts saying the same things over
37:05and over and she's sort of rocking back
37:07and forth a little bit
37:08and goes inward so you can't get to her
37:10and ask her more questions
37:12so we call that a trance behavior um
37:15her face seems like it's almost at rest
37:18in this thing it's if you if you turn
37:19the sound off you may not even know
37:21anything's wrong here anything she would
37:23be worried about anything because again
37:24we're not seeing anything we should be
37:26seeing in here
37:27um
37:29her the whole answer again is focused on
37:31her it's all about her and that should
37:34be if you're if you're watching these
37:36things on tv and somebody comes up and
37:38you're looking at the parents and
37:39they're saying oh we don't have our our
37:41child this that and the other thing
37:42listen to how many times
37:44each one of them talks about themselves
37:46and how it's affecting them and listen
37:48if they focus on that because nine out
37:51of ten say add it eight out of ten times
37:53that person would have guilty knowledge
37:55when they're talking about themselves
37:56it's about me and it's about i and about
37:58those things so when you hear something
38:00like that when you see someone on tv and
38:02they're interviewing them and their
38:04child has just gone missing if they're
38:05talking about how much they feel about
38:07what's going on pay attention to that
38:09chase what do you got
38:11i love that and i completely agree it's
38:15such a great uh an interesting find that
38:17i think a lot of people would just kind
38:19of brush over
38:20because we we tend to think
38:22sociologically if somebody's in pain
38:24that's what they're going to talk about
38:25on tv so it makes sense to most people
38:28that if someone's just talking about
38:29themselves they're talking about what
38:30they're going through but it also
38:33is a huge red flag
38:35in this video we see no motion at all
38:38and
38:39she's injecting ambiguity
38:42instead of doubt or uncertainty and let
38:45me just talk about the difference really
38:46quick
38:47ambiguity means i'm launching
38:50uncertainty
38:51into this in a way that one thing could
38:54mean this or not mean something or i'm
38:57jumping over pieces
38:59doubt is comfortable with truthful
39:02people they're fine with saying i'm not
39:04sure i don't know i'm really uncertain
39:07about this
39:08so think about that different
39:10innocent people are comfortable with
39:12doubt and uncertainty so in this video
39:15you guys talked about some of these
39:16words but think about how the words that
39:19she uses after the word i are injecting
39:22some ambiguity in here
39:24and here we have i mean i mean and i'm
39:27doing this in order i just i just i just
39:30i just it's just i think i mean you know
39:34i just it's just i just
39:37that's in this like super short video
39:40and that's tons of ambiguity being
39:42dumped into it so we're if someone's
39:44injecting
39:45ambiguity that's a big deal and it's
39:47just weird unusual smile at the very
39:50last
39:51tiny piece of this clip which i think
39:54you'll be able to
39:56see pretty clearly
39:58and
39:58greg if you would would you educate all
40:01of us on what you think about her eyes
40:03uh being kind of in this emotional
40:06accessing area throughout the video
40:08inches
40:09i i was curious what you would i have it
40:11in my notes here
40:13that to ask you about it
40:15well i honestly think at this point
40:17she's in a bind she knows she's in a
40:19bind so yeah is she emotional yeah this
40:21is up that's why i say she's going uh
40:25i think it's all about her that's the
40:26reason she's using the word i the reason
40:29she's negative in the entire thing and
40:31then she does that throw away at the end
40:32come back safe she knows they're not
40:34coming back safe that's just trying to
40:36deliver some piece of information along
40:38the way i think her brain is a squirrel
40:40on the road right now and she doesn't
40:42know the right thing to say the reason
40:45you're hearing filler words like just
40:47just mean those are things because she's
40:49so engaged in how she feels and how
40:53dangerous this situation is for her is
40:54what i think chase i think it's
40:56important for her and she knows yeah i'm
40:58glad you said that
40:59i think one of the things that we're
41:00seeing here is her
41:03one of the statistics we see in
41:05behavioral psychology is that people who
41:07suffer as children which she did and she
41:09was abused and had a rough really rough
41:12time growing up
41:13they they have something called a
41:15dissociative capacity and some things if
41:19stress and hard lifestyle continues then
41:22that person becomes a champion
41:24dissociate tour to where dissociation
41:27becomes or where we're kind of
41:28separating from ourselves or going
41:30someplace else mentally
41:33becomes the default stress handling
41:35mechanism and i think that's exactly
41:37what we're seeing here is a dissociative
41:39response which is part of
41:42a
41:43disorder it's part of the diagnostic
41:45criteria for a histrionic personality
41:48disorder histrionic disorders
41:50uh but there's i think some other stuff
41:52going on here too that we'll eventually
41:54get to that's all i got
41:55i may have hope
41:58after this long time i just
42:01and
42:03something like i just
42:05it's just been so long and i think if
42:07they were okay then they would have been
42:08found by now but
42:11the hardest part is just not knowing
42:13i mean you know and
42:15my heart just aches and i miss them so
42:18much i just can't express it and
42:22and it's just a tragedy
42:25and i just pray and pray and pray that
42:27they'll come home safe
42:32[Music]
42:35i did i forgot i stretched there i
42:37didn't
42:38right now we want to go to union to get
42:39the story firsthand from susan smith and
42:42her husband david susan how are you
42:44doing this morning
42:46uh doing okay uh very little sleep last
42:49night but i'm okay
42:51there was some news yesterday and and
42:54some promising leads
42:56in this case
42:57how
42:58are you coping with the disappointment
43:00of the news from yesterday um it was um
43:04i was running around my house yesterday
43:06morning all excited i really thought
43:07that they had uh had really found
43:10something that
43:11was i really thought they found one of
43:13my children and
43:15when i got to the courthouse and found
43:17out that the lead had
43:19disintegrated or when there was nothing
43:21there i was very devastated very
43:23disappointed i
43:25got my hopes up and was let down but
43:28i haven't given up
43:30hope
43:30uh you know that was
43:33maybe one of many disappointments but
43:36maybe that's gonna
43:39be
43:40right
43:41mark what do you got
43:43yeah so she's very focused on her
43:45feelings and i'll go through those in a
43:47moment but i want to give her well not
43:49some credit but but put it in the
43:51context of
43:53there's two pretty bad questions that
43:56come forward in this the first one is
43:59how are you doing so the interviewer has
44:01asked for her
44:03emotion so we could kind of go well of
44:06course she's going to give her feelings
44:08because that's what she was asked and
44:10i'll come to that in a moment and then
44:12he goes well how are you coping with the
44:15disappointment so he even delivers her a
44:19feeling to attach to
44:21i would say
44:23terrible interviewing there unless you
44:25want to lead somebody into stating those
44:28emotions now of course she does she says
44:31very little sleep excited
44:34devastated disappointment
44:37disappointed so she lays in what she's
44:39been asked for
44:40hopes up
44:42let down
44:43many disappointments and she kind of
44:45ends on on that so she's been a little
44:47bit led
44:49on that now having said all of that what
44:52i do notice in uh interviews with people
44:55who are not the culprit the perpetrator
44:58the criminal in this sense is you can
45:00lead them into emotions and they
45:02instantly go to
45:05uh you know they don't necessarily say
45:07this is not about me but they take it
45:08off them
45:10and they naturally get on to
45:12uh find my kids they will get onto the
45:16kids immediately she doesn't find her
45:18way there she is led into her feelings
45:21and being self-centered so there is that
45:24going for her but she should be able to
45:26find her way out of that and she doesn't
45:29greg what do you got on this one yeah
45:31let's talk about leading her into
45:33something
45:33when you see her left eye accessing this
45:36time that's not her making up something
45:37that's her repeating a word she has
45:39heard disintegrate is not a word she
45:41uses that's a word that one of the
45:43investigators said oh oh that lead
45:45disintegrated that's the way they got
45:47her in to talk to her just about
45:48guaranteed
45:49look at her this is where i'm talking
45:50about she's braced she's in a fighting
45:52position by that i mean when you're in
45:54the army you dig a hole you get in there
45:55you get your rifle and you defend
45:57yourself she's braced she's locked back
45:59in the chair she's barriered she's got
46:02what i call egg protector in men we call
46:05it the fig leaf we we cross our primary
46:07sex organs she's crossed her arm in
46:09front of her abdomen and she's locked
46:11down with her husband there and she's
46:13twitching fingers and doing all kinds of
46:15adapters her blink rate is through the
46:18roof and she's braced for whatever
46:20you're going to ask her she's ready for
46:21this whole thing
46:23she gets pressure
46:24and she does something we've only seen
46:26one other time on the entire behavior
46:27panel show and that's she does this
46:30pressured release of words at the end
46:32she's feeling pressure she rambles and
46:34when she's done she didn't edit so she's
46:37got words left over that mean nothing
46:40might be right something is wrong right
46:42there be right with those leftover words
46:44something's wrong she had a plan what
46:45she was going to say and it didn't come
46:46out correctly she tries to redirect and
46:49if you look and you really want to think
46:51about what would a person like this look
46:52like they wouldn't be pushed back
46:54against the chair if they've been
46:55through all this trauma they would look
46:57like him
46:58he's shocky you can see his brain can't
47:02comprehend what's going on never mind
47:03the tv camera might be part of it but
47:05she has none of that it's all just her
47:08it's all just her telling whatever story
47:10she came there for and the only place we
47:12see it's that pressure in the end and
47:14her using the wrong words uh chase what
47:16do you got
47:18yeah so i think uh
47:20she starts this video off in stress so
47:23when when this video starts again here's
47:24what you're gonna see so you're watching
47:26this on your couch living room wherever
47:28you're gonna see two things big time her
47:30respirations at around the 20 to 23.
47:34her blink rate is at around 60. and keep
47:37in mind the average blink rate's like 13
47:3915 somewhere in there everybody's a
47:41little different
47:43her
47:44she uses a three o'clock eye movement to
47:48answer this question so her eyes go to
47:50your 3 o'clock as you're watching it
47:52which is her baseline so that's her
47:55baseline she's probably genuinely
47:56recalling how she feels for just a
47:58moment here but i think her thumb is a
48:01great reliable indicator and she's using
48:04her thumb as a pacifier a little bit
48:06with her husband
48:08but with the the biggest red flag in
48:10this entire interview in its entirety
48:13is her saying i think they they might
48:16have found one of
48:18my children one of
48:21her just saying that is a huge indicator
48:24that this is
48:25something is way off
48:27in this
48:29and then there's a
48:31super increase in blink rate right when
48:33she says one of my children
48:36i think she either realized she made a
48:37mistake or that topic alone caused her
48:40some stress
48:41you can decide that
48:43but there's some internal dialogue where
48:45her eyes are going down this direction
48:47to describe her
48:49disappointment
48:51but i think what's interesting to see
48:53the whole picture here
48:54is that this is a woman hoping her
48:57children are never found trying to show
49:00excitement for children being found and
49:02then disappointment that they were not
49:05found
49:06at the same time
49:08so there's a whole lot going on and
49:09we're seeing a lot of mixed emotions i
49:11think that's one of the reasons we're
49:12seeing a lot of this strange unusual
49:15behavior going on here because i think
49:17the husband here
49:19might still be a little hopeful and
49:22might still be a little scared or might
49:24be starting to suspect the person
49:25sitting beside him which is another
49:27reason for him to be frozen still in
49:30this video
49:31uh mark what do you got
49:33uh i went i'm good that was a test
49:36was passed let's be scared
49:39what do you got me
49:40all right uh let's take a look at the
49:42thumbs were in this her thumb she's over
49:44there and that she's adapting like a you
49:46know what on that guy man just pulling
49:48her hand and pulling his hand and
49:51squeezing it and doing her thumb up and
49:52down that's an adapter she's trying to
49:54get rid of that built up stress or
49:56tension she's feeling at that time and
49:57she's under a lot of stress and we know
49:59that because she's really still she
50:01looks like somebody just walked in and
50:02said what are you doing she's like what
50:03nothing what are you doing and she's in
50:05the middle of doing something she
50:06shouldn't be doing you're right her
50:07blink rate is high it goes through there
50:09and starts to tick tick tick tick tick i
50:11just did a greg but her her blink rate
50:14goes way up so she's under attack and
50:16she's feeling that threat that's another
50:18reason she's really really still
50:20um
50:21that's that odd smile at the top that's
50:23she doesn't know that's not the thing to
50:25do and that's why we're seeing that and
50:27this in this video we're seeing her her
50:30nostrils are flared
50:32uh more than any other video up to this
50:34point i mean they're almost the whole
50:35time they're wide open taking in that
50:37auction her fighter flight's on because
50:38she's under attack and she's and she
50:41knows that so all these things we're
50:42talking about here we're seeing all the
50:44distress she's extremely stressed at
50:46this point and when she starts talking
50:48about uh hoping the children are okay
50:51and they find at least one and all that
50:53she i think this dawning on her as it's
50:55coming out that that's that's odd to be
50:58to be talking like that and i agree with
51:00you chase you're seeing a lot of things
51:01going on
51:02uh about what she's thinking right there
51:04and she's thinking about one thing and
51:06she's talking about something else but
51:07trying to make it look like something
51:09else that's uh that's a great find but
51:12all that leads to stress so we're just
51:14seeing somebody wanna see somebody under
51:15a lot of stress take a look at her at
51:17this point
51:18all right just keep watching
51:20yeah
51:21right now we want to go to union to get
51:23the story firsthand from susan smith and
51:25her husband david
51:27susan how are you doing this morning
51:30uh doing okay uh very little sleep last
51:32night but i'm okay
51:34there was uh some news yesterday and and
51:37some promising leads uh
51:39in this case
51:40uh how are you coping with the
51:42disappointment of the news from
51:44yesterday um it was um
51:47i was running around my house yesterday
51:49morning all excited i really thought
51:51that they had had really found something
51:54that
51:54was i really thought they found one of
51:56my children and
51:59when i got to the courthouse and found
52:00out that the lead had
52:03disintegrated or when there was nothing
52:04there i was very devastated very
52:06disappointed i
52:08got my hopes up and was let down but
52:11i haven't given up
52:13hope
52:14you know that was
52:16maybe one of many disappointments but
52:19maybe the next gonna
52:22be
52:23be right
52:25oh there it is finally even folks in in
52:28union
52:29wonder about the both of you they wonder
52:32if
52:32all of the truth of this story has been
52:35told susan what do you say to that
52:38i'll say that
52:40on behalf on my behalf the truth has
52:42been told
52:45i know right here what the truth is
52:48i can i can
52:50from some i can see from their side
52:54why they have to do the things they have
52:55to do
52:58but the lord and and myself both know
53:01the truth i did not have anything to do
53:04with the abduction of my children
53:06um
53:07i don't think any parent could love
53:09their children any more than i do and i
53:10would i'd never even think about ever
53:12doing anything that would harm them
53:15and yes
53:16go ahead i'm sorry go ahead susan
53:19i was just going to say it's very
53:20painful to to
53:22have a finger pointing to you
53:24when it's your children involved
53:28all right chase what do you got
53:30yeah so we see
53:31we're still here
53:33sorry sorry phyllis
53:36all right mark what do you got
53:39yeah i'm going to say one thing about
53:40this the moment you bring in a
53:43supernatural entity as a character
53:46witness
53:47probably something is up i'm not
53:49bothered about you know if you believe
53:51in gods or don't talk it's not really
53:54that it's the fact that you're bringing
53:56in something which is
53:59high authority you know any any kind of
54:01supernatural you know entity god is high
54:04in authority but tends to be very low in
54:08presence i i understand the kind of
54:10omnipresent you know uh
54:13idea but but they very rare you can very
54:16rarely get a god or demigod to show up
54:20anywhere so it's a great way of going
54:23look highest authority uh says
54:26you know i didn't do this and by the way
54:29you'll never be able to call that entity
54:31to the stand imagine imagine i'm in the
54:34same position
54:35and i go look um thor and odin i
54:40absolutely know that i didn't do this at
54:43what point would you go oh all right
54:45well thought if thor and o didn't think
54:47you didn't do it then you know call it
54:48off everybody go and look somewhere else
54:50because thor and odin say mark didn't do
54:53it you would you would be incredulous
54:55now i know you know thor and odin are
54:58our gods from you know norse sagas from
55:00way way back they may not feel very
55:02present right now
55:04but it's the same idea calling on a
55:06supernatural entity as your character
55:08witness kind of knowing that they have
55:10high authority but they're never going
55:12to show up in court chase what do you
55:15got on this one
55:17i totally agree
55:19and
55:20we've seen that in in so many videos
55:23that
55:24a lot of people will just use that as
55:26the as the star witness
55:28and
55:30if you watch this video a couple of
55:32times you'll see a lack of affect
55:34and
55:36she's had a past life history of
55:39affective instability
55:41there's a non-contracted denial here
55:44but i think one of the cool things that
55:46we occasionally talk about on the show
55:48is a humorous retraction and that's not
55:51when you stop being funny that's when
55:53this bone starts pulling into the body
55:56because one thing that fear makes us do
55:58is protect arteries fear makes a human
56:01body start protecting arteries
56:03so this arm starts squeezing into the
56:05body at a very specific time here which
56:07is a fear response and i want you to
56:10take a look and see if you can see when
56:11that happens here
56:13there's an increase in blink rate in
56:15this video from 18 per minute to 95.
56:19and there's distancing language where
56:21she says my children she's not saying
56:23their names we hardly ever if ever see
56:26her uh use these names
56:29and this thumb sticking up
56:31here's where that thumb or she's holding
56:33her husband's hand or thumb is kind of
56:35poking up like that
56:37this is where i was like oh she's got a
56:39thumb up i'm going to see something
56:42but i didn't
56:43there wasn't a whole lot of movement
56:44with this thing and i thought we're
56:45going to see some digital flexions and
56:47movement but what we're really seeing is
56:50a the arm comes in which indicates to us
56:53there's fear so we're seeing a bodily
56:54freeze
56:56so she's freezing the body so that all
56:58of the cognitive capacity is available
57:01she doesn't want to move anything she
57:02wants to maximize cognitive capacity and
57:05that's what we're seeing here
57:06and there's prolonged eye closure
57:10during her denial right when she says
57:12the words did not that's when we see the
57:15longest amount of eye closure and you
57:17can see it for yourself when the video
57:18comes right back up here scott what do
57:20you think
57:22yeah i agree with you and she's feeling
57:23the threat here because she's very still
57:25and that's indicating she's uncertain
57:27about what's going to happen next at
57:28this point i think the part about the
57:30thumb a lot of times you'll see the
57:31thumb when someone is confident if you
57:33don't if their thumbs are hidden or down
57:36their confidence level is low i think
57:38it's stuck there where she's got it with
57:39with his hand so it's it's so tight it's
57:41just sticking up the way he's grabbing
57:43her hand probably holding holding her
57:44hand going back to what greg said about
57:46him being freaked out because he's he's
57:48feeling a lot of stress too he's and he
57:50looks the way he should look at this
57:52point she puts her hand to her chest and
57:54this whole thing here is called the
57:55suprasternal notch that little little
57:58uh dimple right there in your check or
58:00in your in your
58:02neck and it's a lot of times you'll see
58:04when women have something emotional
58:06happen or you get bad news about your
58:08child
58:09the women will touch that super sternal
58:11notch she gets really close she gets
58:13right up on it but not right to it she
58:15does this twice these are the most
58:16illustrators we've seen so far with her
58:19her hand movement that's that's the
58:20biggest thing we've seen so far but she
58:22hits that twice and because she thinks
58:24she's supposed to she's saying i know
58:26but that and and one at one point the
58:28finger does get really really super
58:29close to that but it crosses it like
58:31that
58:32so she's not really feeling the emotion
58:34she should feel here she's mimicking the
58:35emotions she's seen she's not a
58:37psychopath i don't think but but she
58:39does have a couple of the
58:41the the of uh the items on the
58:43psychopath checklist from robert hare
58:46you know the lack of affect in in
58:49interface and and like chase was talking
58:51about earlier but i don't think that's
58:52what we're dealing with here
58:53um
58:55again and you're right mark that
58:57that that's a red flag when you bring up
58:58religion and he said don't get me wrong
59:00you know when it comes to god he you
59:02know he loves you but i'm his favorite
59:05so that's where i'm sitting in all that
59:07but when you bring up god in situations
59:09like this there's no reason there's no
59:10reason to do that there's no reason
59:12whatsoever to do that i always start
59:14focusing when when somebody brings up
59:15god that's when i go oh this is good
59:17here we go and then you can dig in even
59:20deeper because something's up there
59:22they're in panic mode at that point
59:24little or no brown movement and
59:26that husband he's the adapter she's over
59:29there just squeezing his hand and he's
59:30squeezing hers back and that's why we
59:32get that thumb up like that greg what do
59:34you got
59:35yeah he's more than an adapter he's
59:36sacred space he's got her locked down
59:38and they're adapting and i guarantee you
59:40before this thing started she put her
59:42hand in his and said help me through
59:44this something like that so he's
59:46gripping and holding her and protecting
59:48her
59:49she eye breaks to block she'll break eye
59:52contact to block primarily to get away
59:54from something but chase you hit
59:55something really important and that's
59:57that her fight or flight is through the
59:59roof and if you'd want to find good
1:00:00indicators it's not just the blink rate
1:00:02or the
1:00:04when she exhales because she's trying to
1:00:05talk through all of this fight or flight
1:00:07it's also that her nostrils are really
1:00:10flared and that happens when we're in
1:00:11fight or flight or we're angry typically
1:00:14she does a whole lot of um
1:00:17um ah and that's because i think she's
1:00:19working on low horsepower and she's
1:00:21trying to access everything she's got
1:00:22the reason she's not moving her body a
1:00:24whole lot
1:00:25she tries to go to emphatic i think is
1:00:27what she's doing here she's trying to be
1:00:29emphatic and convince someone that no
1:00:31it's just this and there's a reason
1:00:33we know that people say things like as
1:00:35god is my witness and that in the
1:00:37business we all say they take holy
1:00:39ground and that means it's used a whole
1:00:41lot when somebody's coming up with a
1:00:42name for it
1:00:43my favorite part of this entire thing is
1:00:46that she actually
1:00:48doesn't know when she's been handed a
1:00:50gift this tells you she's not very smart
1:00:53when the guy interrupts her she gets
1:00:55annoyed
1:00:56go ahead
1:00:57she should have just gone
1:01:00thank god but she's not smart enough to
1:01:02figure that out and she lets it go again
1:01:04and then she has something else to say
1:01:06because she's got to get one up my best
1:01:08is that this talking like this and all
1:01:11that and this flat face this flat affect
1:01:14is because she knows she's in real
1:01:15trouble and she's got to try to be as
1:01:17contained as she possibly can it's not
1:01:19that she has no effect usually i would
1:01:21bet that she does a little bit of a
1:01:22little bit of heightened affect
1:01:24occasionally if you're dealing with her
1:01:26so i think we're seeing just her lock
1:01:28down as tight as she can make it that's
1:01:29all i got even folks in in union
1:01:33wonder about the both of you they wonder
1:01:35if
1:01:36all of the truth of this story
1:01:38has been told susan what do you say to
1:01:40that
1:01:42i'll say that
1:01:44on behalf on my behalf the truth has
1:01:46been told
1:01:48i know right here what the truth is um i
1:01:52can i can
1:01:54from some i can see from their side
1:01:57why they have to do things they have to
1:01:59do
1:02:01but the lord and and myself both know
1:02:04the truth i did not have anything to do
1:02:08with the abduction of my children
1:02:11i don't think any parent could love
1:02:12their children any more than i do and i
1:02:14would i'd never even think about ever
1:02:16doing anything that would harm them
1:02:19and yes
1:02:20go ahead i'm sorry go ahead susan
1:02:23i was just going to say it's very
1:02:24painful to to
1:02:26have the finger pointing to you
1:02:28when it's your children involved
1:02:31as a fun fact the behavior science term
1:02:34for nostril flaring is wing dilation
1:02:37now that you're a panelist
1:02:39you can go look that up
1:02:41that's beautiful
1:02:43we should put that on the bingo card
1:02:46i will
1:02:50susan we're led to believe that uh
1:02:51investigators spent quite a bit of time
1:02:53at uh at your place yesterday is that
1:02:55true
1:02:56uh yes sir
1:02:58and what do you think they were looking
1:02:59for
1:03:00i have no idea i granted them permission
1:03:04to search my house under the impression
1:03:06that was one of the normalities of
1:03:08the investigation
1:03:11as far as what they were looking for
1:03:13what they took i have no knowledge of
1:03:14that all right mark what do you got
1:03:18yeah look people can do all kinds of odd
1:03:20stuff under stress and impression we
1:03:22have to accept that
1:03:24however
1:03:25i don't really expect this kind of odd
1:03:27behavior it's it's it's too reasonable
1:03:31um it's too
1:03:33locked down this idea of normalities
1:03:36it's too
1:03:37civil it's too
1:03:39formal
1:03:40she's not displaying showing letting out
1:03:43any of the she's in control
1:03:46of the anxiety i'm not saying she's not
1:03:50feeling anxiety because we know she is
1:03:52but she's locking it down and that's not
1:03:56a behavior that i would expect now i'm
1:03:58not saying that you wouldn't have a
1:04:00parent who would be feeling anxiety
1:04:02trying to manage that at the same time
1:04:05as trying to contact the audience at the
1:04:07same time as trying to manage their
1:04:10partner at the same time as thinking
1:04:12where are my kids and who's taking that
1:04:14there should be so much complexity going
1:04:17on here that i wouldn't expect anybody
1:04:20to be able to lock down this hard so too
1:04:24reasonable
1:04:26too
1:04:27too uh
1:04:28too normal trying to she's trying to
1:04:30project as she says normality so she's
1:04:33trying to be too normal too civil
1:04:36too formal
1:04:38i don't buy it at all and you know and i
1:04:39know it just looks super weird right now
1:04:43chase what do you got on this one
1:04:45yeah i'm just going to touch on
1:04:46something that's missing
1:04:49so she says
1:04:51she doesn't know why they're going to
1:04:53her house
1:04:55so when we i just bought a new dog it's
1:04:58a belgian malinois but when she was a
1:04:59puppy we went to the breeder's house to
1:05:01go meet him
1:05:02the mom came out and didn't know where
1:05:04all the puppies were for just a minute
1:05:06and i walked over to where the puppies
1:05:08were usually kept they weren't in there
1:05:10and the mom followed me to look for the
1:05:12dogs because even a dog knew the reason
1:05:16i was going in there was to look for her
1:05:18kids
1:05:20so any parent on planet earth would know
1:05:23the reason they were looking there the
1:05:24reason or what they were looking for is
1:05:26evidence or clues to find the children
1:05:29saying i have no clue
1:05:30is absolutely ridiculous was there a
1:05:33stalker is there evidence about where
1:05:35they were somebody might have taken them
1:05:38maybe something to help me find my kids
1:05:41that should be
1:05:43clear as day for anybody but this shows
1:05:44some pretty clear deception that if
1:05:46they're willing to say they don't know
1:05:48what the police were looking for that
1:05:50there's guilt
1:05:52scott or greg what do you got
1:05:54i think she's out of hard drive i think
1:05:56she's just at a point that she's got
1:05:58nothing left and you watch her
1:06:00respiration i mean she's damn near
1:06:02hyperventilation here if you're paying
1:06:04attention to it you can see your
1:06:05respirations going and remember i said
1:06:07she's in a fighting position
1:06:09here's how you can tell she started off
1:06:11you couldn't see her nostrils and then
1:06:13her nostrils flared and now you can see
1:06:15into her skull as her head is back
1:06:17that's the only place she has to go and
1:06:19you can see up her nostrils her nostrils
1:06:21are flared that's her escape she's
1:06:22looking down in the bridge of her nose
1:06:24at this reporter and she's trying to
1:06:26answer questions she's on her best
1:06:28behavior again yes sir
1:06:30that nostril flare is fight or flight
1:06:32and you can't miss it and she's trying
1:06:34to to do the best possible things she
1:06:37can she uses words that i would not
1:06:40associate with the rest of her
1:06:41vocabulary things like normalities
1:06:44and things like no knowledge of that
1:06:46that sounds a lot like did you have
1:06:48knowledge of x y or z
1:06:50this is a normality for what we do might
1:06:52be something a police officer might say
1:06:53to her and i think she's regurgitating
1:06:55those words as kind of a chaff and
1:06:57redirect and she's not good at it so
1:06:59she's just in a position where she's
1:07:01locked down she's in fight or flight and
1:07:03that's all she's got scott what do you
1:07:05got
1:07:05all right again we see that thumb
1:07:07adapting and no illustrators nothing and
1:07:10to go back to alder bray and i called
1:07:12him bridge last time sorry albert but if
1:07:14you're watching this i'd pronounce your
1:07:16name wrong last time but it's al alder
1:07:18frey and
1:07:20in his studies in in that he did he
1:07:22talked about how the person who uses the
1:07:24least amount of adapters compared to
1:07:26someone who's telling the truth that
1:07:27person is most likely lying people who
1:07:30are lying don't use illustrators very
1:07:33often at all not much at all you're
1:07:34right greg your head's cocked back
1:07:36because
1:07:37she's
1:07:38at the same time i think he's a little
1:07:39bit arrogant here
1:07:41um because she's taking on a threat but
1:07:43i think she's ready for it and she's but
1:07:45she knows she has to do it but i think
1:07:46at the same time you're right she's
1:07:48she's afraid
1:07:49of the threat it's it's an odd uh
1:07:51combination of stuff there and again
1:07:53we're seeing her nose nostrils flared
1:07:55not quite as wide as that one we saw
1:07:57earlier but man but it's because her
1:07:58head is back it's because you can see
1:08:00right into her skull almost into her
1:08:02frontal lobe there if you look real
1:08:04close
1:08:05um everything else is it very small her
1:08:08voice know her her voice is uh quiet
1:08:11here all that all these things again
1:08:13lead to stress uh if you pointed out
1:08:16bullet pointed all these out and put an
1:08:18arrow toward you'd have the word stress
1:08:19there's what i've got
1:08:20on my notes
1:08:22okay
1:08:23are we good
1:08:24yeah
1:08:27susan we're led to believe that uh
1:08:29investigators spent quite a bit of time
1:08:30at uh at your place yesterday is that
1:08:33true
1:08:34uh yes sir
1:08:35and what do you think they were looking
1:08:37for i have no idea i granted them
1:08:40permission to search my house under the
1:08:43impression that was one of the
1:08:44normalities of the investigation
1:08:49as far as what they were looking for
1:08:50what they took i have no knowledge of
1:08:52that
1:08:54all right
1:08:58you kept me twice scott so i had to get
1:09:00you back
1:09:02david the question that that arises and
1:09:04people who have been following this so
1:09:06closely and and certainly you have to
1:09:08know how much emotion that this is has
1:09:10generated across the country is why
1:09:12someone who
1:09:14would uh be interested in in in
1:09:16carjacking or stealing a car would want
1:09:19to continue to take a couple of little
1:09:22kids with them have you been able to
1:09:24fathom that or
1:09:25or could you think of why someone would
1:09:27want to kidnap a couple of little kids
1:09:29and unless there was some ransom or
1:09:31something involved
1:09:35no i have no idea why
1:09:38the suspect has why he even took the
1:09:40children and why he has not released him
1:09:42yet we have no knowledge whatsoever
1:09:46right
1:09:48wait
1:09:49a second i was gonna do it man
1:09:52all right
1:09:55we're still gonna do it all right chase
1:09:56what do you got or greg what do you got
1:10:01or mark what
1:10:04she's going to pass out if she keeps
1:10:05this interview up she's in a place where
1:10:07her respiration is fluttering now you
1:10:09can't miss it and you watch her
1:10:11her breathing rate i didn't count but
1:10:13i'm going to guess it's somewhere around
1:10:1540. that's pretty fast it might even be
1:10:17higher than that chase she probably
1:10:18counted
1:10:20she's licking she's grooming her mouth
1:10:22all this stress is now caught up with
1:10:23her her eyes are down down to the right
1:10:26and then back up and then when he says
1:10:28my favorite in the whole thing i'll
1:10:29leave it at that when he says
1:10:31well we don't know
1:10:34her mouth moves now children if you have
1:10:37a child and you don't teach them not to
1:10:39when they color they'll go
1:10:42because we're thinking and working out
1:10:44something we move our mouths mammals do
1:10:46it's just what we do
1:10:48horses do it dogs all of us move our
1:10:50mouths a lot but humans when they're
1:10:52little children will do it all the time
1:10:53and i think that's leakage in her case
1:10:55of well maybe
1:10:57i think she's trying to figure out what
1:10:58she's going to say to make that
1:11:01come to the next level if she were in a
1:11:03chair i think we'd see pre-confession
1:11:04movement she would start changing her
1:11:06body style here scott what do you got
1:11:09i got 10 bucks that says somebody's
1:11:11going to make a gif of you doing that
1:11:12with your mouth a second ago
1:11:14i think within a week it'll be on
1:11:15instagram what you maybe want to take
1:11:17back
1:11:18i go to 50 bucks
1:11:20i know where you live
1:11:22i know
1:11:24anyway so if somebody shows up at your
1:11:26house with a chain and drags your
1:11:27traverse around it wouldn't be
1:11:30yeah every time
1:11:32so
1:11:33go out and get something else
1:11:34so uh at this at this point i think her
1:11:36fighter flight is it's the highest it's
1:11:38been so far she's panicking as this
1:11:40guy's talking because she's thinking is
1:11:41he going to say something's going to get
1:11:42me in trouble he's going to say
1:11:43something something that that i'm not
1:11:45ready for that i can't defend at this
1:11:47point her blink raised through the roof
1:11:49and her nose nostrils are flared again
1:11:52we say that one more time i think
1:11:54there's spider flights through the roof
1:11:56mark what do you got yeah i think you're
1:11:58right i think we actually see her ramp
1:12:00up in this i mean she starts pretty high
1:12:02and she goes up higher and i think it's
1:12:04because her her partner here i guess
1:12:06it's her husband um
1:12:09really starts needing into her her
1:12:12muscle tissue
1:12:13there uh because he is not prepared for
1:12:16this at all he's in high anxiety that is
1:12:20a strong signal for her
1:12:23she i think is now going well this guy's
1:12:25out of control so just as you said there
1:12:28scott what's he gonna say
1:12:31is he reliable and i think her breathing
1:12:34rate ramps up even further at that
1:12:36moment there so always great to see the
1:12:39combinations
1:12:41that happen not just focus on one
1:12:43individual but how's the partnership
1:12:45working just as i think it was scott was
1:12:48saying earlier you know that in that
1:12:50video um that i don't think we can see
1:12:52but he was saying look you know if you
1:12:54look around the subject you get to
1:12:57understand the subject look at the
1:12:59partnership that's happening here to
1:13:02understand the subject
1:13:04chase what do you got on this one
1:13:06yeah i love that so let's really quickly
1:13:08touch on nostril flaring or wing
1:13:11dilation as we call it we have an
1:13:13adrenaline spike that produces an
1:13:16equally high demand for oxygen and when
1:13:19you're trying to conceal your need for
1:13:21oxygen because most of us are just open
1:13:22our mouth
1:13:24and openly breathe bigger
1:13:26but when we're trying to conceal it we
1:13:27use the nostril flaring unconsciously
1:13:30our brain just says okay dilate the
1:13:32nostrils if you're trying to keep your
1:13:33mouth shut to oxygenate the blood going
1:13:36to the brain uh primarily
1:13:39i like that the perpetrator appears the
1:13:42husband is asked and now there's a
1:13:43perpetrator we even hear the word
1:13:45suspect
1:13:46which is great
1:13:47and he's using his wife as a pacifier uh
1:13:51throughout this thing you can see him
1:13:52just kind of going crazy and she i think
1:13:55she's stroking his hand to help calm him
1:13:57down
1:13:58and just kind of get him ready just
1:13:59remember what we talked about just kind
1:14:01of just go right along what we talked
1:14:03about
1:14:04but i think there's a strong drop of the
1:14:06thumb of her thumb onto his hand at the
1:14:09end of his statement and
1:14:11right when he's saying uh no knowledge
1:14:13whatsoever
1:14:16but you're right the the blink rate and
1:14:18breathing spikes as he begins so we
1:14:20actually in this clip we're not seeing
1:14:22it
1:14:23super high
1:14:24we're seeing it spike
1:14:26from the beginning so we're getting to
1:14:27see it escalate so you'll be able to see
1:14:29that and kind of train your brain to see
1:14:31that in your everyday life uh using this
1:14:34video as well that's all i got
1:14:36david the question that that arises and
1:14:38people who have been following this so
1:14:40closely and and certainly you have to
1:14:42know how much emotion that this is has
1:14:44generated across the country is why
1:14:46someone who
1:14:48would uh be interested in in in
1:14:50carjacking or stealing a car would want
1:14:53to continue to to take a couple of
1:14:56little kids with them have you been able
1:14:58to fathom that or
1:14:59or could you think of why someone would
1:15:01want to kidnap a couple of little kids
1:15:03and unless there was some ransom or
1:15:05something involved
1:15:09no i have no idea why
1:15:12the suspect has why he even took the
1:15:14children and why he has not released him
1:15:16yet we have no knowledge whatsoever
1:15:23ah that was a good one
1:15:26susan what do you think
1:15:29um
1:15:30i think it takes a very sick and
1:15:32emotionally unstable person
1:15:34to be able to
1:15:36to take two beautiful children like that
1:15:38to be able to keep them from their
1:15:40parents
1:15:41to keep them from where they do belong
1:15:44um
1:15:46i i don't i can't imagine why anybody
1:15:49would want to do such any do such a
1:15:51thing as as what has happened
1:15:54chase what do you got
1:15:57so we see uh
1:15:58a lot of this
1:15:59stuff that's going on here let's do a
1:16:01linguistic analysis really quick
1:16:03she's saying this
1:16:04sick and emotionally unstable person i
1:16:07think this is what's what we call a
1:16:08defense strategy revealing itself that
1:16:11if something does happen she gets to
1:16:13clean her own butcher block or define
1:16:15how she's seen
1:16:18but i want you to concentrate on her
1:16:19words just to be able to then she says
1:16:22to be able to then she says to be able
1:16:24to then she says to be able to
1:16:27four times there
1:16:28so and she describing the crime as
1:16:32such anything or such a thing
1:16:36as what has happened
1:16:39but back to this word abel it's able
1:16:42indicates capacity or ability or
1:16:45potential
1:16:46so it's not an action so she's not
1:16:48speaking about anything that actually
1:16:50happened she's speaking about something
1:16:52that's 100 hypothetical here there's
1:16:55more vanishing perpetrator
1:16:58and remember she apparently met and
1:17:00stood face to face with this person and
1:17:03he's still
1:17:05not mentioned she mentioned some
1:17:07ethereal unimaginable human even though
1:17:10she has apparently seen this person face
1:17:12to face she's unable to mention the
1:17:14crime she's unable to mention the kids
1:17:17names or the perpetrator
1:17:19and this is a wonderful spot as an
1:17:21interrogator this is the exact moment
1:17:23that i would start inserting the
1:17:25punishment question
1:17:26what do you think should happen to the
1:17:28person that did this
1:17:31and get because she's already in the
1:17:32mood to clean her own butcher block and
1:17:34define herself this is the perfect
1:17:35moment to do that scott what do you got
1:17:38all right well he covered everything
1:17:41so i'll just talk about stress for a
1:17:42minute
1:17:43let's talk about everything we've seen
1:17:44at this point everything leads to stress
1:17:46everything she's doing shows she's
1:17:48stressed and she's under attack and she
1:17:50feels the threat
1:17:52so that's why we're seeing the nostril
1:17:54flare she's been really still her her
1:17:56senses are are odd oddly constructed
1:18:00everything sounds off because she's
1:18:01under stress and she knows
1:18:03this is at some point things are going
1:18:06to get worse than they are right now
1:18:07because they're going to find those kids
1:18:09and it's going to get worse for
1:18:11uh
1:18:12mark what do you got
1:18:13yep so
1:18:15if you're a panelist which i hope you
1:18:17are which means you've subscribed and
1:18:18you've maybe been watching us for weeks
1:18:20and weeks and weeks and weeks maybe even
1:18:22as much as a couple of years you're now
1:18:25probably getting pretty good at
1:18:27analyzing behavior and body language and
1:18:29what you're going to notice about other
1:18:31people out there is when they analyze
1:18:34body language and behavior all they're
1:18:36really doing is telling you what's going
1:18:38on inside their own head it's just a raw
1:18:41shack test because they don't have the
1:18:43ability like you're going to be having
1:18:45right now of really critically thinking
1:18:47what's going on i think that's what
1:18:49we've got here another rorschach test
1:18:52because you've got somebody here
1:18:53diagnosing
1:18:55an imaginary perpetrator she knows their
1:18:59the only perpetrator is her so what
1:19:01story has she got other than a sick and
1:19:05emotionally unstable
1:19:07individual this is a self
1:19:10diagnosis essentially i mean it's not a
1:19:13particularly you know anybody uh who's a
1:19:16who's a psychiatrist uh analysts will be
1:19:19able to do a more acute um
1:19:22uh analysis but she's not far off as an
1:19:24amateur she's not far off uh on herself
1:19:27so that's what i'd say we've got there
1:19:29is that's a beautiful piece of simple
1:19:32self-analysis that she's
1:19:34giving us
1:19:35there a rorschach test
1:19:37greg what do you got on this one
1:19:39yeah so i love this one because she has
1:19:41prepared you said butcher black which i
1:19:43find kind of interesting chase because
1:19:45in the old days we would have called
1:19:46these flip charts booker butcher block
1:19:48just the paper and i think she put a
1:19:50list of things not maybe not literally
1:19:53but a list of things she needed to cover
1:19:55to cast who could have done this to her
1:19:57children now interestingly she was able
1:20:00to describe what he looked like what
1:20:01kind of hat he was wearing even to an
1:20:03artist but she was not able to say this
1:20:05scumbag who took my children when we're
1:20:08angry about losing our children we don't
1:20:11go
1:20:13we go
1:20:14and tell and we're aggressive and pushy
1:20:17and we're not seeing any of that no brow
1:20:19down it's all that head back leaned and
1:20:21her mouth wrenches a little bit before
1:20:22she starts and then she accesses her
1:20:25left as she's bringing up these things
1:20:26that she was saying she's like finally i
1:20:28get to say something i know how to say
1:20:30and she is more cl clearly spoken
1:20:32because she's prepared it i think it's
1:20:34just more of the act and she's barely
1:20:37able to hold on to it even through fight
1:20:38or flight though she finishes her
1:20:39sentence that's what i got
1:20:41greg let me ask you this what do you
1:20:43keep in that pocket right there with a
1:20:44zipper i don't know you'll never know
1:20:47either
1:20:51susan what do you think
1:20:53um
1:20:54i think it takes a very sick and
1:20:57emotionally unstable person
1:20:59to be able to
1:21:01to take two beautiful children like that
1:21:03to be able to keep them from their
1:21:05parents to keep them from where they do
1:21:07belong
1:21:10i i don't i can't imagine why anybody
1:21:13would want to do such any this such a
1:21:16thing as as what has happened mark what
1:21:18do you think about what we're seeing
1:21:19here yeah so here's what i want you to
1:21:21do take a leaf out of scott's book there
1:21:24which is look around what's happening
1:21:28when you're analyzing a situation not
1:21:30necessarily at the subject themselves
1:21:33look around the subject and see how
1:21:36other people are reacting that's what i
1:21:37take away from this because we've got
1:21:39some great examples there of being able
1:21:42to look at other people's behavior
1:21:44around this particular subject chase
1:21:47what do you think
1:21:49yeah i think there's some
1:21:52there's a good case to be made for
1:21:54there's some evidence here for many
1:21:56different mental issues that are going
1:21:59on i'm not a professional so i'll leave
1:22:01it alone and maybe next video we'll
1:22:03break out the big dsm
1:22:06but for this one
1:22:07just use what i'll give you a legal term
1:22:10which is the reasonable person standard
1:22:13and we just ask ourselves from a
1:22:15critical thinking perspective like mark
1:22:16always talks about how would a
1:22:18reasonable person feel if their children
1:22:21were kidnapped
1:22:23would you be angry we're not seeing any
1:22:25anger would you feel sad we're not
1:22:27seeing that would you beg for your
1:22:29children back would you use their names
1:22:30would you say it on tv and not just
1:22:33yourself but think about other people
1:22:34that have different lifestyle than you
1:22:36so let's just use the reasonable person
1:22:38standard and that helps us to discover
1:22:40what's missing and what's being hidden
1:22:43from a conversation that we see
1:22:46anywhere we have one greg
1:22:48yeah i think you just hit dead on
1:22:50the nailed dead on the head
1:22:52reasonable person because what we see
1:22:54here is somebody who's covering up
1:22:56something what we can tell about this
1:22:58person is they're not reacting normally
1:23:00normal is lots of different things
1:23:02because there's no such thing in humans
1:23:04but what we do know is that we're not
1:23:06defending self when a child goes missing
1:23:08if you lost your dog tomorrow do you
1:23:11start looking for reasons why your dog
1:23:13is missing or do you start looking for
1:23:15the dog these are children
1:23:17and we don't see a bit of concern we
1:23:20don't see a bit of grief we don't see a
1:23:22bit of anxiety usually when people are
1:23:24dealing with this we looked at the
1:23:25mccanns they look bleached after days of
1:23:27their children being gone there's no
1:23:29bleach to this this person is talking
1:23:31like a normal person and she's talking
1:23:34about this person who is mentally ill
1:23:36that she let take her
1:23:38children because he had a gun come on
1:23:40it's just all of these pieces of a story
1:23:42just don't fit well they of course let
1:23:44him take the kids because he had a gun
1:23:47this is all of this going together is
1:23:49just as bad as diane downs there's no
1:23:51logic to the story there's no there's no
1:23:54flow to the story and the reason that
1:23:56she's not upset is because she knows
1:23:58they're dead and she knows she's got to
1:23:59protect herself that's it scott what do
1:24:01you got i think this is a great study in
1:24:04stress
1:24:05because we see we see her under stress
1:24:07in all kinds of different situations or
1:24:09different interviewers so i think this
1:24:12is great because we're seeing all the
1:24:13the
1:24:14earmarks of someone who's being
1:24:16dishonest or being deceptive as we go
1:24:18through these everything from the
1:24:19nostril flare to the
1:24:21being very still to the head back
1:24:24heavy breathing
1:24:26the the blink rate going up i think it's
1:24:28wonderful and how she talks about
1:24:30herself the whole time again if if
1:24:32you'll
1:24:33focus on what they're saying when you
1:24:35see people who are being questioned
1:24:36about missing children missing husband
1:24:38missing wife whatever listen to how
1:24:40listen whether they talk about the
1:24:42person missing or they talk about
1:24:44themselves and how they feel about
1:24:45everything that'll give you a heads up
1:24:47what's happening because most of the
1:24:48time they're talking about their self
1:24:50themselves the whole time that's a big
1:24:52red flag so if you like this video watch
1:24:55this one
1:24:58[Music]
1:25:06you

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