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Panel Discussion | Investor vs. Founder: The Tug of War Between Vision & Validation — Transcript

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0:13Good evening to all the esteemed
0:14agencies present over here. Uh thank you
0:16so much SC for inviting us to this
0:19wonderful panel. You know means we've
0:20been waiting for long to commence this
0:22much awaited panel. You know there is
0:24always a fascinating tension between the
0:28founders's unshakable vision and the
0:31investors datadriven validation and
0:34today you know means we have three
0:35renowned experts of this domain who will
0:38be you know means helping us to resolve
0:39this tension and let's see that how the
0:41startup ecosystem can build up and how
0:44you know means we can solve this type of
0:45war. So um we have few questions. So let
0:49me start with Sumitsa first. Um sir so
0:53investors you know means they're often
0:54seen as the gatekeepers of the
0:56practicality while founders are driven
0:58by the emotions and ambition. So from
1:01your experience how do you balance this
1:03emotional vision of a founder and you
1:06know means the rational validation that
1:08the investors require.
1:10So first of all thank you so much for
1:12having me and thank you S for giving us
1:16this wonderful opportunity to part of
1:19this uh
1:21wonderful evening with very uh you know
1:25people here. So uh coming to your
1:28question
1:30definitely uh you know once things come
1:33for investment first thing is why
1:35investments. So that's a very very
1:38difficult question which everyone has in
1:40mind
1:41investment
1:44uh you know there are a lot of things
1:45are coming in mind like uh some people
1:48will say uh you know uh
1:53if I have to invest into uh any product
1:56that should be uh you know beat the
1:59inflation because you know if there is a
2:01traditional way of investment even it
2:04cannot beat the inflation. So a lot of
2:07people will uh you know have started
2:09thinking uh you have seen uh you know
2:12the industry ambund
2:14industry has already gone to 76 lakh cr
2:19so which is almost 8 and a half lakh
2:21crude from a yony basis growth so uh
2:26emotional uh you know uh you know kind
2:29of thing once it come majorly we have
2:32seen on the real estate side and uh even
2:35on the investment in gold. So whenever
2:38people are like you know in India
2:40household story if you see everyone
2:43wants to invest into gold
2:47you know
2:48investment into even then into
2:51ornaments.
2:52So you know
2:562002 if one has invested into gold
3:03today's values is only 2 uh 2.5 crores.
3:08But if someone has invested into equity
3:11same amount 10 lakh in 2002
3:15can you believe that investment amount
3:17is almost 14 cr. So there is a huge huge
3:22gap. So uh you know once the things
3:26comes into investment on the you know uh
3:29personal side as well as on the company
3:31side. So uh you know uh there is one way
3:35of uh which is called asset allocation.
3:39So if one is taking care of that thing
3:42you know gold choice real estate choice
3:46you can put you know some investment
3:48into different different pockets but uh
3:51yes uh you should have everything uh in
3:54the
3:55>> like like the saying goes don't keep all
3:57your eggs in a single basket. Keep
3:59investing.
3:59>> Absolutely.
4:00>> Awesome sir. So ma'am um coming to you
4:03you know um many founders they say that
4:05when they go and pitch before the
4:07investors the investors often clip their
4:09wins by giving the certain reasons of
4:11data validation. So what's your advice
4:14to the founders out there that if you
4:16are going to the investors how you can
4:18you know mean pitch by string to to your
4:20vision as well as giving validation for
4:22the investors.
4:24>> Thank you so much for that question
4:25Nati. Um good evening ladies and
4:28gentlemen. My name is Prii Chri and I am
4:31the founder and managing partner Mandi
4:33Bharat Angels looking at empowering
4:36Hindi speaking startup founders from six
4:40states of central India. Thank you Sahil
4:43for having all of us at transform 14 and
4:46thank you to the Punjab angels network.
4:49Coming to your question Adri I think um
4:51in today's day and age um data is
4:55something that gives us wings truly
4:59anything unsubstantiated
5:01and out of the emotions does not work
5:04especially if you are going to be
5:06playing with somebody else's money you
5:09better have the insights and analytics
5:13which are proven by numbers and not just
5:16emotions. So personally if you ask me
5:20all of the decisions that are made for
5:24giving someone else's after all all of
5:26us are representing high net worth
5:28individuals or LPS basically it is
5:31somebody else's money and it cannot be
5:34just floundered away on the whim or a
5:36fancy everything needs to be
5:38substantiated
5:40and there there has to be solid reason
5:43as to why you are going to be asking for
5:46that money and it has to be validated.
5:49Um I think it's extremely important for
5:51founders to understand
5:54um that you know you are actually
5:56playing with somebody else's money and
5:58if you don't have your uh your headsp
6:00space and your skin in the game then
6:03nobody is going to be paying you for
6:06actualizing your dreams if you're not
6:09substantiating it. So in a nutshell, I
6:11think it's extremely important to keep
6:14in mind that every rupee or dollar that
6:18goes into any business does have a
6:21definitive ROI or a return of
6:23investments because after all it is an
6:26investment. It has to compound. And
6:28where will that come from? It'll come
6:30from datadriven insights and the
6:34learnings from the markets. keeping in
6:36mind all the volatilities and making
6:39informed choices out of those datadriven
6:42insights. So extremely important. Um I
6:45think nobody sort of needs to play with
6:49anybody else's money but make informed
6:52choices. That's my take on that. Thank
6:54you very much for that.
6:55>> Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much.
6:57Coming to you Sange sir. Sir um as
7:00someone who mentors started through the
7:02fundraising journey um where do you see
7:04that founders go wrong when they
7:06communicate to the investors while
7:07putting their ass in front of them? See
7:10the biggest thing is let me take it from
7:12a different perspective. What's the
7:14purpose of the enterprise
7:17and what's the purpose of the life of
7:18the entrepreneur? These are two very
7:21important questions to ask before a
7:23entrepreneur gets into the journey of
7:26expedition of the startup. All right.
7:30First of all, entrepreneurship is like
7:33going to the Mount Everest. I just saw
7:35Sah's presentation and uh I remember
7:39when I was a student, there was an
7:41expedition to Antarctica which failed
7:44and it failed because the preparation
7:46was not complete. They picked up the
7:48wrong shoes of the dogs.
7:53So what is very important is why is the
7:57entrepreneur into entrepreneurship?
7:59That's the most important question. And
8:02what happens and my experience tells me
8:05some get into entrepreneurship because
8:07they are a fed up of their boss.
8:10Yeah. or they are looking at three times
8:13to five times their current salary
8:17you know and then they are trying to get
8:19into seeking funds from let me tell you
8:23something I have created a startup and
8:26I'm myself struggling to get funding
8:29because I don't have a revenue yet so if
8:34I cannot show you MVP1
8:37right I may have MVP0 which is my
8:40prototype
8:41I may have a vision but till I don't
8:44walk my talk by my money it is just
8:48impossible for an entrepreneur to expect
8:50money the first round is normally and
8:53let me make you laugh the first round of
8:57funding comes from three F
9:02why are you laughing sir versus the
9:04third F friends family and fools
9:09Okay.
9:11The biggest challenge which is emerging
9:13is that the that the investor is looking
9:16at return and if you don't give him an
9:18exit
9:20whichever level you are funding you know
9:23whether you are funding for angel
9:25funding till you don't show him the
9:27window of series zero he's not able to
9:31see the map
9:33right so what I'm trying to say is that
9:36the entrepreneurship is the most
9:37difficult
9:39you know I would say career care of
9:41anyone. I see so many people and I have
9:44got privilege to I've just come back to
9:47India. I'm not yet come back to India.
9:49I'm shing between Dallas and uh Delhi. U
9:53there is a lady who is uh you know 20
9:56years into she's a India head ex India
9:59head PWC
10:01today she's a mentor to startups. She
10:04says the entrepreneurs don't have
10:06vision.
10:07What is missing today is lack of vision
10:10of entrepreneurs.
10:13So what I'm doing as idea to unicorn is
10:16a workshop called business visioning.
10:21So what is most important for an
10:23entrepreneur to do is first go back to
10:25the drawing board. Why I'm becoming an
10:27entrepreneur?
10:30So if I'm becoming an entrepreneur to
10:32earn five times the money of what my
10:35salary can get me, please don't ask for
10:37money from the market because five times
10:41the money is very easy to get. You are
10:43saving tax which gives you 50%
10:46increment,
10:49right? And then if you are good at your
10:52work, you have some service, you will
10:54certainly get five times your previous
10:56salary.
10:58Now let's look at the other thing I let
11:01me tell you what I mean by identity
11:02unicorn and um let me share with you at
11:05least six seven eight books which are
11:07I'm not a theorist okay and I don't
11:10become I don't want to become a
11:11professor so I have workshops and they
11:15are really relevant workshops for the
11:17startups and I'm not marketing myself
11:19don't get me wrong there are workshops
11:21some some of their material is available
11:23free on LinkedIn so business visioning
11:26is actually nothing else but my dream
11:29life workshop
11:31and the dream life workshop is not about
11:33profession it is about who am I
11:36right health is spiritual mental
11:40emotional and physical health right Jeff
11:44is a very close friend and I've been
11:46into pranic healing and I'm a not I'm
11:49not a healer but I've learned pranic
11:51healing I've been very lucky to learn
11:53healing as well as Buddhism and
11:54Christianity while I'm a born Hindu. So
11:58the core is that must speak. So I'm the
12:02most powerful person on earth,
12:05right? So if I'm the most powerful
12:07person on earth, I'm able to attract
12:10or manifest whatever I want in my life.
12:13So therefore to be able to do that
12:16that visioning is the most important
12:17thing. The end state of my enterprise
12:20like the end state of my aan is 1
12:23billion people cha. Okay, 1 million
12:27people interactive on my platform and
12:30I'm giving 360° devotey service.
12:33I'm making a guru sguru. It may be a
12:36joke for people because assalams exist
12:39in this world but I'm focused on
12:43branding online digital marketing using
12:46AI and services
12:50across all aspects of spirituality and
12:53that is my business. I'm in the business
12:55of spirituality. My spirituality is
12:57independent of my business of
12:59spirituality. I'm pretty clear about it,
13:02right? That is business with now
13:05crossing the CASP. I don't know how many
13:07of you understand CASP or crossing the
13:09CASP. Well, I really love our gentleman
13:13the previous presentation of your chain.
13:16Crossing the CASP is the most difficult
13:18aspect of an entrepreneur's business.
13:21The moment you start your business,
13:24uh, innovators come,
13:26innovators don't give you financial
13:28viability.
13:30Financial viability comes out of early
13:32majority.
13:34And let me tell you, 95% of the people
13:36fall in the mo. It's called mo or chasm.
13:40I was very lucky to pick up that book in
13:431994
13:44called crossing the chasm by Joffrey
13:46Mood. And it tells you to focus on one
13:49single service. Your technology may do
13:5210 things in life. Pick up two or one
13:57and go for it. That is crossing the
13:59casp. You want to learn, I'm here to
14:02teach you without charging you anything.
14:04The third most important thing which we
14:06are offering to the startups and it's
14:09really wonderful. I'm damn lucky to get
14:11somebody Kundu as a part of my team. He
14:15is 40 years into franchising
14:17and it will be founders I would say
14:20dream come true that you can grow
14:22without diluting your equity
14:25right so if you have MEP1 plus AITA
14:29positive which is the easiest thing to
14:31do and whether you are selling
14:34technology or whether you are selling
14:36any other business
14:3880% of businesses fall in these two
14:41categories
14:42which is either they need resellers
14:45which is distributors or they need
14:47franchises
14:49right if Kundu can take Baluchi pin
14:53Baluchi from 0 to 150 and build up his
14:56relationship with his you know with the
14:58owner for 25 years we are made in gold
15:03and what we are offering to you is don't
15:05direct your equity just come to us we
15:08will charge you money I'm not giving you
15:10anything free if I'm McKenzie of
15:13startups
15:14I will charge you my fee and if you
15:17don't respect that and lot of Indians
15:19don't respect consulting to be paid I'm
15:22sorry I'm not your I'm
15:25you are not my client right
15:28>> but the fact is that if you want to save
15:30your equity almost 25 to 50% of your
15:34equity dilution we have the strategy
15:37right and the next one is the book
15:40called good to great and in the book
15:43good to great. Every company can become
15:46good but few companies become great and
15:49that is the unicorn
15:52and the two three things which are said
15:54in that book very clearly and I was
15:56lucky to read that book again in 95 97
16:00and let me tell you a few more two more
16:02things before I bore you more.
16:06So good to great has gone first who then
16:09what?
16:11If I have to have you as my partner,
16:13it's important for me to know you first.
16:16Before I decide what I want to do with
16:18you and what I'm meant to know is how
16:22pure you are, what is your integrity
16:24level, whether you will walk my talk,
16:27right? whether you will walk to your
16:29talk and whether you will and the most
16:31important thing is when I'm down and out
16:34will you walk out of me and that is
16:37partnership right
16:39so the core of partnership is not that
16:42today I'm transacting
16:44the core of partnership is do we see eye
16:47to eye
16:48and that is what Jeff and we were
16:50discussing in the car today that we want
16:53to talk about integrity
16:55and integrity trust And I feel uh you
16:59know integrity, trust and purity is more
17:02important to me than vessels.
17:05It is very difficult to get it.
17:07>> Great. Great. Taking from the traits
17:09that you just mentioned you know means
17:10taking up from the question that why
17:12entrepreneurship. I like to ask um sumit
17:15sir that you know financials are the key
17:18but so is the founders credibility. So
17:21apart from the uh financial statements
17:23metrics, what non-financial signals or
17:26trait do you see in founder before
17:27investing?
17:31This is really very very important
17:33question. Thank you for asking this. In
17:36fact,
17:38Oswal is into this business from last 20
17:41years. So we started this journey in
17:442005. We started our first fund with a
17:48500 cr and uh recently we launched fund
17:52around 8,000 cr. Now our single
17:54investment is for 500 cr.
17:57>> Wow. Wow.
17:59>> And uh uh the best part is uh you know
18:02the first check whenever there is any
18:05investment it comes from our promoter
18:07side. So uh we actually helped uh uh you
18:13know many businesses to grow from this
18:15level to this level. I will give you a
18:18few examples as well. Uh we invested in
18:21company called Dixon Technology. So we
18:25invested at valuation of just 135 cr and
18:29today you see the company is already
18:32more than one lakh cr plus valuations.
18:35We invested in a small finance bank. We
18:38invested at a valuation of just 200
18:41crores and now the valuation is more
18:44than 50,000 crores plus. So there are a
18:48lot of uh there are many examples where
18:50we help businesses to grow from here to
18:52here. So now uh coming to your question
18:56like you know whenever we are investing
19:00into any company the most important
19:03thing is you know uh promoter
19:08That is the most important thing whether
19:11promoter wants his company to grow from
19:15you know next three year if see today
19:19he's having topline let's suppose 200
19:22300 cr whether he has that enthus I will
19:26take this to maybe 1,000 cr or 1,500 cr
19:29in next 3 year 5 year down the line how
19:33you know involved he is into the methods
19:37business you know how what are his
19:40strategies overall you know teamwork how
19:44they closely they are working and you
19:48know
19:52in today's scenario
19:57you know young generation they are
19:59actually very very
20:02like you know they want things to take
20:04from here to here
20:06So we are you know obviously investor
20:13if you know promoter is having that in
20:16that uh you know knowledge about his
20:20industry
20:20>> clarity
20:21>> clarity of thoughts that is very very
20:23important. So we work uh very very uh
20:26you know closely on all these things and
20:29most important
20:31uh you know
20:34honesty integrity
20:45That's that's true sir. That's true. So
20:47you know ma'am sir was speaking about
20:50the generations and you have closely
20:52worked with a lot of generations
20:53including the generations functioning in
20:56tier 2 and tier three cities. So how do
20:58you think that how much important it is
21:01to collaborate between the ecosystem
21:03partners like the incubators investors
21:06and you know means all the startup
21:07ecosystem so that the validation and the
21:10vision can coexist.
21:13Thank you Adi for that. I think um what
21:16you asked is really valid and you know
21:19you're speaking about this probably a
21:21chasm between tier one and tier two as
21:23well as well as multigenerational
21:27startup founders you know so I think um
21:32>> a lot goes into uh getting a founder
21:35from zero to one in a tier two and below
21:38setup as uh as you compare it to say a
21:43tier one uh sort of a setup You know
21:45there are the challenges and obstacles
21:47are multiffold. So thereby the
21:50possibilities multiply when there are
21:53collaborations with all the stakeholders
21:55involved and then the beauty of being in
21:58a tier 2 city and Chandigar is one and
22:01so is my little town of Javalur. Um you
22:04know the community that exists over
22:07there is anyway collaborative in nature.
22:09So when all the the dots of the
22:11ecosystem come together like say the
22:13incubators the uh investors the the
22:17founders the mentors I think a beautiful
22:20story sort of starts emerging and when
22:24you have multi-gener generational inputs
22:27coming in as well then it's another
22:29level altogether all of these things
22:32come naturally to people in the tier one
22:34startup ecosystem whereas in the tier
22:37two and below ecosystem
22:39everybody comes together and then we
22:42pull up pull in all these resources. So
22:44I think uh collaboration over
22:46competition is always the key to making
22:49a story even much more better because
22:52with competition you can only go a
22:55little bit. But if you collaborate
22:58beautifully and if you have
23:00complimentary skills even if you are two
23:03startup founders or three startup
23:04founders or different startup founders
23:07if you have complimentary skills I think
23:09collaboration goes a much longer way. So
23:13uh I think it's a beautiful time and
23:16place to be in India at this point in
23:17time and especially in the tier 2 and
23:21below India because that is where the
23:23next story and the next generation of
23:26entrepreneurs are coming from as you
23:28know very well and as I think all of us
23:30in this room
23:32>> I think that is the power of
23:33collaboration only that we all are
23:34sitting here together you know enjoying
23:36this lovely panel. Uh coming to you sir,
23:39what fascinates you more pitching or
23:42prototype?
23:43>> Well prototyping
23:46you know I I would have prototyped more
23:48than six uh prototypes. I worked
23:51agnostically across 10 11 industries.
23:55I've had more than 20 jobs. So you can
23:58you can understand what kind of village
24:02you know I have. But the fact is the
24:05most important thing is the creativity
24:06around prototyping.
24:08See uh let me share with you something
24:10different. All of us are engineers. We
24:13are able to make plans and planning is a
24:17left brain exercise. Okay. Nobody's
24:20teaching us visualization.
24:23Nobody's teaching us creativity.
24:26being creative, visualizing, intuitive,
24:29childlike, be you know this all right
24:32brain work and right brain is the master
24:35of the left brain
24:37right so therefore when you get into
24:39creativity whether it's branding whether
24:42it is you know for example I gave the
24:45name petrol car to bart Petro and let me
24:49tell you Lintas tried their best to name
24:52it different and it failed because it
24:54was a generic
24:56brand and the first name we had TCT. TCT
25:02was a you know brand we created with the
25:05vision of KK Modi. He was a visionary
25:09and let me tell you we were 25 years
25:11ahead of the retail revolution. I had
25:14seven you know so that's the creativity
25:17and then when you tackle the problem of
25:21economic viability of a concept and then
25:24you tweak it that's another level of
25:26creativity. So pitching is see let me
25:30tell you something the today my
25:32observation is that there are multiple
25:35people multiple people who are going
25:37through the hoops of pitching without
25:40adding value to the entrepreneur
25:43you know I don't see people changing the
25:46presentation of an entrepreneur
25:49all they're doing is I have 10 I've got
25:52five investors and please come in page
25:56pay 5,000 rupees
25:58so that I can pitch boss pitching is you
26:02are putting your heart
26:05your your vision to the investor and
26:08most important thing which he said that
26:10if you're seeking money you are you have
26:13to be 10 times more responsible for that
26:15money
26:17you know because it's somebody else's
26:20money I have seen I I've seen situations
26:23where people are expecting the money
26:25because they want a lavish lifestyle
26:27Then what is bootstrapping? Then what is
26:30that story where an entrepreneur slept
26:31on the platform of a railway station,
26:35right?
26:37There are no shortcuts in life.
26:40That's true. That's true. So um as we
26:42draw closer, you know, to the closing of
26:45this panel, uh very quickly, one word of
26:47wisdom which you would like to share
26:49with the audience, sir, starting with
26:51you.
26:53So uh in our uh investment line what we
26:56have learned is like you know uh from
27:00our even promoters they have been into
27:02this business from last four decades. So
27:05one thing is very important is
27:06discipline that is very very important
27:09in on the investment side. So uh
27:12whenever you are doing investment never
27:15never look in short term give time you
27:18uh uh to your money to grow. So look for
27:22a very very long-term perspective 5 year
27:2510 year 20 year 30 year I will give you
27:28example uh if you are investing let's
27:31suppose if your money can be doubled
27:33let's suppose in 5 years so that mean uh
27:36invested 100 rupees today can become 400
27:39in 10 years and in next 20 year it it
27:43can become almost 1,600 uh 16 time and
27:48in 30 year it can become 64 four time.
27:52So start early. So if you know people
27:56are starting their career early, they
27:59think you know.
28:02So people need to start early and stay
28:06invested for a very very long time. So
28:09this will definitely
28:10>> So start early and stay invested.
28:11>> Power of compounding.
28:12>> Power of compounding. Yes, it helps.
28:14>> Great. Great. ma'am from your secret
28:18>> I think uh it is more of a marathon uh
28:21than a sprint and I totally agree with
28:23you right here I think um and as well as
28:27you know sort of thoughtful
28:29consideration keeping everything in mind
28:32and again data plays a very important uh
28:35part over here um every investment needs
28:38to be an informed choice um as founders
28:42first of all I think uh what matters to
28:45amaz how much of your skin you have in
28:48this game because until and unless you
28:51put in your own hardearned money into
28:54your own vision and dream no investor is
28:58ever going to bet on you. So first of
29:00all that is what I look at. Secondly,
29:03personally for me, staying on the right
29:06side of the law, which means
29:08compliances, whether they are legal
29:10compliances, financial compliances, or
29:13any sort of compliances, those
29:16absolutely matter to me. And third and
29:19the last thing is founder integrity and
29:22discipline. How true are you to
29:25yourself? How true are you to your team,
29:28to your family, and everybody else
29:30involved? So those three things for me.
29:32Thank you.
29:32>> So stay true to your commitment. That's
29:35great. Sir, please.
29:39>> Let me let me say it differently. Um see
29:42what is more important is what word
29:46resonates with you in your life.
29:52That is the most important thing and
29:54that drives your life. Right? And let me
29:59add one or two three other things. Money
30:02is nothing else but energy
30:04and it flows with you if you have the
30:07right energy.
30:10That's
30:14>> great. So you know we have learned from
30:17this panel that that tug of war between
30:19vision and validation is not a wow to
30:21win but it's really an act of balance to
30:24achieve. So thanks so much uh to the
30:27wonderful panelist for creating this
30:28panel discussion. So learning and so
30:31much you know means enriching experience
30:32for us and thank you so much transform
30:3514.2 for having us. Thank you so much.
30:37Have a lovely evening here. Thanks.

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