Pam Hamby Mother Of Cortney Bell: Confirms Bell & McNabb 1st Cousins ❓ If Chris Had Secret Facebook — Transcript

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1. 0:09hand
2. 0:12do you solemnly swear or fern that the
3. 0:13testimony you're about to give and the
4. 0:14matter now hunting before this jury
5. 0:16today will be the truth
6. 0:17the whole truth and nothing about the
7. 0:18teresa happy god yes all right thank you
8. 0:21please state your name pamela hamby ms
9. 0:24handy
10. 0:25um how old are you
11. 0:2847. and do you have any children
12. 0:32yes how many seven
13. 0:36is courtney about one of them yes
14. 0:39are you related to chris mcnabb yes how
15. 0:41are you related to him and his aunt
16. 0:46so it's his brother michael or is his
17. 0:48father michael mcnabb your
18. 0:50brother yes
19. 0:53did you raise courtney no who raised her
20. 0:57her grandparents and her dad
21. 1:01nevertheless do you know her yes
22. 1:05um i'm gonna draw your attention back to
23. 1:06october the 8th of 2017. did you have
24. 1:08the occasion to be with courtney on this
25. 1:10date
26. 1:10yes um and where were y'all what were
27. 1:13y'all doing on that afternoon
28. 1:15i picked her up and we went to my mom's
29. 1:19she got her makeup and stuff on and then
30. 1:22we left and
31. 1:24was going headed towards the news cast
32. 1:27at the trailer park on 36. okay and um
33. 1:30when you said you put your makeup on
34. 1:32or she put makeup on why was she putting
35. 1:33makeup on she hadn't
36. 1:36hadn't got ready for the she knew she
37. 1:38had to talk to the news
38. 1:39okay so she put makeup on at your
39. 1:42mother's i guess
40. 1:43would that be her grandmother's house
41. 1:45okay so
42. 1:46she put makeup on to get ready to go
43. 1:48meet the news media
44. 1:50yes at the trailer park and who was
45. 1:52driving
46. 1:54lauren mackey who's lauren mackey it's
47. 1:56my
48. 1:57son's baby's mother okay
49. 2:00so who is your son steven hamby
50. 2:04i don't think we have him on the flow
51. 2:07chart here let's see
52. 2:09i'm not gonna i think this is a dry
53. 2:11erase board
54. 2:12but i'm not sure i've got a family tree
55. 2:14some valet because you're wondering
56. 2:17his name is steven or the pierre b
57. 2:20um v-o-p okay
58. 2:25so stephen hamby is who knows
59. 2:29like lauren mackey's baby's daddy
60. 2:32okay so
61. 2:39um how old is lauren give or take
62. 2:44i don't know okay do you have
63. 2:48grandchildren by her
64. 2:50how many one alive
65. 2:53one passed okay so she was driving
66. 2:57and who else was in the vehicle her son
67. 3:00what's his name jeremiah jeremiah okay
68. 3:04and who else me courtney and chris
69. 3:08okay and where are we all coming from
70. 3:11what part of the county where y'all
71. 3:12coming from going down to the trailer
72. 3:13park to meet the news
73. 3:14on the access road at riverside park
74. 3:18okay um do you remember where everybody
75. 3:21was seated in the car
76. 3:23okay where was that chris behind me
77. 3:25courtney in the middle jeremiah in the
78. 3:27car seat
79. 3:28lauren driving me and the passenger
80. 3:31so you were in the front passenger seat
81. 3:34and chris was behind you and who was in
82. 3:37the middle
83. 3:38courtney beside him do you remember what
84. 3:42lauren was driving back then i
85. 3:46don't know the name of the vehicle or
86. 3:47anything it was white
87. 3:49suv though okay if i told you it was a
88. 3:52nissan murano crossover
89. 3:542008 or 2009 model does that sound about
90. 3:57right
91. 3:57sounds right i'm going to show you
92. 3:58states exhibits
93. 4:00number 68
94. 4:05and 69.
95. 4:15i'm showing you um photographs of cars
96. 4:18it's not her actual car but does this
97. 4:20look like um
98. 4:21lauren mackey's car what what it would
99. 4:24have looked like back then
100. 4:25yes yes okay you're our offer states 68
101. 4:28and 69 into evidence
102. 4:30mr carr no yes
103. 4:33without objection exhibit okay
104. 4:37so just to be clear i'm going to put
105. 4:38this up on the screen
106. 4:41this handy 68
107. 4:45and can you point i think if you just
108. 4:47take your finger and draw like on the
109. 4:49screen it'll show show me where put up p
110. 4:51where you were sitting in that car do
111. 4:53you see your screen
112. 4:56it may not be on animation let me there
113. 4:58you go try it again there you go
114. 5:00all right now work put a l where lauren
115. 5:02was
116. 5:06okay and then where's um courtney
117. 5:11this is chris this is courtney and this
118. 5:15is jeremiah
119. 5:17did you all hear that no on the left she
120. 5:19said that's chris
121. 5:21that second c in the middle was courtney
122. 5:24and jeremiah is the jay in the in the
123. 5:27baby
124. 5:27scene okay so if we're looking at um on
125. 5:30space exhibit 69
126. 5:33the back seat we know for sure where you
127. 5:36and um
128. 5:38and lauren were because she's driving
129. 5:40near the passenger but on the back seat
130. 5:42from this rear view then would it be the
131. 5:44opposite
132. 5:45jay chris would be here
133. 5:49courtney here jeremiah here pam you have
134. 5:52to speak up
135. 5:53because we all can't hear you
136. 5:56chris on the very right courtney
137. 5:58middleton jeremiah on the left
138. 6:00okay and was he in a car seat yes okay
139. 6:03as y'all were traveling down the road um
140. 6:06to
141. 6:07go to the trailer park for the video for
142. 6:09the news media
143. 6:10i guess it was to do like an interview
144. 6:11or something for the news media
145. 6:14yes okay um did something did y'all get
146. 6:17some news inside that car did somebody
147. 6:19call and relay some news
148. 6:20yes what was that that they found the
149. 6:23baby
150. 6:24and who was it that called you know i
151. 6:27think it was courtney's aunt kim
152. 6:29okay and was that a call that was um on
153. 6:33just courtney's cell phone or was it
154. 6:35being broadcast in the car through the
155. 6:38um against the stone courtney cell phone
156. 6:41was it on speakerphone
157. 6:43no so you couldn't hear what was being
158. 6:45said
159. 6:47i can hear a little bit what was the
160. 6:49gist of the message that came through
161. 6:53the baby was found and it wasn't alive
162. 6:57was there any indication of where it was
163. 6:59found at that time
164. 7:02i think that she said in the woods and
165. 7:05what happened when y'all got this
166. 7:06information
167. 7:09just everybody just freaked out kind of
168. 7:12started
169. 7:13screaming this and that but i can't
170. 7:14remember exactly what was said
171. 7:17and where were y'all at when this call
172. 7:18came through
173. 7:20pulling up to the red light on 36 at
174. 7:24marathon mcdonald's and
175. 7:28cvs right here um okay thank you you
176. 7:31need to turn to your seat tell me what
177. 7:33happened
178. 7:34when that call came in what after the
179. 7:36everybody started
180. 7:37hollering and crying and what a
181. 7:41christian
182. 7:43and he got out of the car
183. 7:46and where was where was that at
184. 7:49the red light
185. 7:52did you help him get out of the car
186. 7:58i can't remember um i told him to get
187. 8:01out of the car
188. 8:02because i was afraid that guns were
189. 8:04going to be put on the car and my
190. 8:05grandbaby was in there
191. 8:07okay why would you tell him to get why
192. 8:09would you think that there were going to
193. 8:10be guns put on the car
194. 8:13i didn't know who or who was responsible
195. 8:16for
196. 8:16for what had happened you know just
197. 8:19thinking that he you know somebody of
198. 8:21mine had done something wrong that
199. 8:23you know one of them maybe had done
200. 8:26something wrong
201. 8:27and the guns were going to be drawn i
202. 8:30just was thinking about my grandbaby i
203. 8:31didn't want my
204. 8:32grandbaby to be in the middle of that so
205. 8:34your
206. 8:36first thought when you learned that the
207. 8:38baby died was that
208. 8:40either your daughter or chris killed
209. 8:42their baby
210. 8:43no not that they
211. 8:46just that everybody might have thought
212. 8:49that they did
213. 8:54well didn't chris tell you that didn't
214. 8:56he say something to that effect
215. 8:59he said that they were going to think
216. 9:00that if they found it anywhere near
217. 9:03the their home that they were going to
218. 9:05think that they had something to do
219. 9:07to do with it you
220. 9:10that night after chris jumped out of the
221. 9:12car you went to
222. 9:14um the sheriff's office and were
223. 9:15interviewed is that correct
224. 9:17do you remember this man right here
225. 9:19interviewing you jeff alexander
226. 9:21yes have you ever given a statement to
227. 9:23him
228. 9:24yes and that statement was recorded did
229. 9:26you know that
230. 9:27yes and you actually had an opportunity
231. 9:29for me to play that statement for you
232. 9:31um in preparation for this trial is that
233. 9:33correct yes
234. 9:35um and when you listen to that statement
235. 9:37as i pointed out to you on the day that
236. 9:38i played it for you
237. 9:40you never told the investigators that
238. 9:42night that you told him to get out of
239. 9:44the car because you were concerned for
240. 9:45your grandchildren
241. 9:46yeah i just i don't know why i didn't
242. 9:49tell him that in fact you stated
243. 9:52quote courtney and they said they found
244. 9:56the baby and started telling more
245. 9:57details or whatever
246. 9:58and he said they're going to think it's
247. 10:00me they're going to think it's me and
248. 10:01jumped out of the car
249. 10:04is that correct yeah he did say that and
250. 10:06he jumped under the car but i told him
251. 10:08to get out of the car also
252. 10:10were you trying to protect him then
253. 10:12because you knew that
254. 10:14i was just worried about my grandbaby
255. 10:18well i mean i'm not trying to be ugly
256. 10:20pam i'm really not but with all due
257. 10:22respect you
258. 10:23weren't even involved in your
259. 10:24grandchildren's lives i mean
260. 10:26you weren't involved in kalia's life for
261. 10:28clarissa's life were you
262. 10:30no so do you want the jury to believe
263. 10:33that
264. 10:34this grandchild was more special to you
265. 10:36or you were somehow involved and you
266. 10:38didn't even raise your own daughter
267. 10:39just because i wasn't involved doesn't
268. 10:41mean i still don't love them
269. 10:43did you have any reason to be concerned
270. 10:45about the police stopping y'all
271. 10:49no not at that time because i don't
272. 10:51think they knew what vehicle we were in
273. 10:53or anything
274. 10:55then how were they going to pull guns on
275. 10:56you we were going to
276. 10:58pull up to where everything was going on
277. 11:02did you not think that your son
278. 11:05or i guess it's your son-in-law and your
279. 11:07nephew we'll see it's your nephew
280. 11:10and your daughter's boyfriend but did
281. 11:12you not
282. 11:13think that it would be important when
283. 11:15the baby was found for him to go there
284. 11:17to where his child
285. 11:19was found yeah but to go there by
286. 11:22himself
287. 11:23not he didn't have to arrive with us
288. 11:27why i didn't want my grandbaby in the
289. 11:29middle of that
290. 11:30i just didn't know what was going to
291. 11:32happen well i mean the only reason the
292. 11:34only way that makes any sense is that
293. 11:36you assumed that chris
294. 11:37killed your brother no i didn't assume
295. 11:39that well why would you
296. 11:41all thoughts went through my head i
297. 11:44didn't know
298. 11:45that if he may or may not have you know
299. 11:48i didn't know either way but i didn't
300. 11:50want to take any chance
301. 11:52and you understand that
302. 11:57what you said that night when you went
303. 11:59to the police department
304. 12:01um was just what hours after
305. 12:05this happened would there be a reason
306. 12:07why you would have lied to the police on
307. 12:09that night
308. 12:11i just wasn't thinking about me saying
309. 12:13get out of the car
310. 12:14i mean that's a pretty important thing
311. 12:16right like you know that for hours
312. 12:20not only the police the sheriff's
313. 12:22deputies swarming all
314. 12:24over that part of the county but all the
315. 12:25citizens are out looking for chris
316. 12:27mcmahon
317. 12:29you know that right you knew there was
318. 12:30like an hour-long manhunt for chris
319. 12:32mcmahon
320. 12:33you know that after the baby was found
321. 12:36right after he jumped out of the car
322. 12:39and you're not going to tell
323. 12:40investigator alexander that you're the
324. 12:41reason he jumped out of the car that you
325. 12:43told him to
326. 12:44he didn't have to jump out of the car
327. 12:46listen to your question
328. 12:49listen to her question ask a question
329. 12:52with all that was going on to locate him
330. 12:55why would you how could it slip your
331. 12:57mind as you said i guess it just slipped
332. 12:58my mind i forgot to tell him that i'm
333. 13:00the one who told chris to get out of the
334. 13:01car
335. 13:02i don't know how well you told the
336. 13:03police something very different it's not
337. 13:05that it just slipped your mind you told
338. 13:06the police
339. 13:07that he jumped out of the car because he
340. 13:09was afraid
341. 13:10that they were gonna think he did it i
342. 13:11didn't say he was afraid i just said
343. 13:14that he said that they're gonna think
344. 13:18what is a person who runs are they not
345. 13:20the person who's afraid
346. 13:23well he was running into the direction
347. 13:25to where they found the baby he wasn't
348. 13:27running away from it
349. 13:29he was running through the woods but it
350. 13:32was towards
351. 13:33the park where they lived it wasn't
352. 13:36the other direction but he was running
353. 13:38through he didn't have anywhere else to
354. 13:40go
355. 13:41he would even go inside the chevron
356. 13:43station or the marathon station and say
357. 13:44hey
358. 13:45deputy come pick me up i'd take me to
359. 13:47where my baby was found
360. 13:48did he no i don't guess so
361. 13:52he didn't use that cell phone that he
362. 13:54had in his hand and call the police and
363. 13:56say come pick me up
364. 13:57i didn't do this i want to clear my name
365. 14:00take me to where my child
366. 14:01is is laying he didn't accompany
367. 14:04the woman who just gave birth to this
368. 14:06child
369. 14:07that she has her own direct overrule go
370. 14:10ahead and ask a question
371. 14:13he didn't he jumps out of the car
372. 14:15leaving the mother of the child that he
373. 14:17that just gave birth to his child two
374. 14:18weeks ago
375. 14:19to go by herself over there to where the
376. 14:21baby is found
377. 14:22yes are you saying he was a coward are
378. 14:27you saying he's afraid
379. 14:30i'm not saying either so why did he jump
380. 14:32out of the car
381. 14:33i have no idea
382. 14:43did y'all have drugs in the car that
383. 14:44night no
384. 14:47did i smoke drugs together that day
385. 14:49smoked a blunt before we left
386. 14:55thank you those are all the questions
387. 14:57you
388. 14:59i'm anthony carter i have a few
389. 15:00questions for you um
390. 15:04just to go back over this is october 8th
391. 15:06on the day
392. 15:07after kalia went missing and the day
393. 15:09that she was found is that correct
394. 15:12uh and you courtney lauren
395. 15:15chris and jeremiah were in lauren's car
396. 15:19correct lauren lauren drive and i think
397. 15:21we've been through
398. 15:23been through where everybody was
399. 15:27and courtney received a call on her
400. 15:29phone is that correct
401. 15:30correct and you said somebody told her
402. 15:33that
403. 15:34the baby had been found and they gave
404. 15:36her some other details
405. 15:37now was it apparent at that time that
406. 15:39the child was dead
407. 15:42yes okay and at that point
408. 15:46you said chris became worried that they
409. 15:49were going to blame him
410. 15:50that's what miss on say that you said
411. 15:52right uh you also told
412. 15:54investigator alexander that chris didn't
413. 15:57just say they're going to blame me
414. 15:58he said they're going to blame us him
415. 16:00and courtney is that correct
416. 16:02right and he asked you to clarify that
417. 16:04several times and you said no
418. 16:05he said they're going to blame us right
419. 16:08right okay and then
420. 16:12you say that you told him just get out
421. 16:14of the car
422. 16:15you told him just to get out of the car
423. 16:16is that right now the only thing that
424. 16:19you
425. 16:20didn't tell investigator alexander that
426. 16:22night only thing
427. 16:23that you missed out of what i just said
428. 16:25was the fact that you told him to get
429. 16:26out of the car is that correct
430. 16:27correct now miss mackey's car this
431. 16:31this model of car actually has child
432. 16:34protective
433. 16:35doors on the back does it not so you had
434. 16:38to get out
435. 16:39of the car and you had to get out of the
436. 16:41car and open the door for chris because
437. 16:43he wasn't able to open his door do you
438. 16:45think i think i think i did okay
439. 16:55other than forgetting to tell
440. 16:56investigator alexander that you told him
441. 16:58to get out of the car and that you open
442. 17:00had to get out to open the door for him
443. 17:02is there anything else that's um
444. 17:04different from your statement that you
445. 17:06gave to jeff alexander that night and
446. 17:07what you're telling us jury today no sir
447. 17:10okay do you have any doubt about the
448. 17:11things
449. 17:11that you're telling us here today no
450. 17:14thank you ma'am
451. 17:16mr frost thank you
452. 17:20miss hamby
453. 17:23you don't have a particularly good
454. 17:24relationship with your daughter do you
455. 17:26it's not bad
456. 17:31in fact you've got what seven kids
457. 17:34yes how many different fathers are there
458. 17:36five
459. 17:38and you only raised out of those
460. 17:41two of those correct the others were all
461. 17:44raised by their father
462. 17:48now yes
463. 17:53but you well you're actually closer to
464. 17:56chris
465. 17:56aren't you no didn't you all have a
466. 17:59secret facebook
467. 18:00account so that you could go behind my
468. 18:02client's back
469. 18:04he had secret facebook accounts
470. 18:07from to keep from courtney to talk to
471. 18:10people
472. 18:11but it wasn't just me and him but y'all
473. 18:13got together on certain occasions and
474. 18:15had little
475. 18:16absolutely not y'all never had any no
476. 18:26and you weren't doing drugs that night i
477. 18:29smoked a blunt
478. 18:31and you're not protecting chris today
479. 18:33are you no
480. 18:38lazan pam do you remember saying
481. 18:42um that chris said if they found it
482. 18:47i'll let you read that last line here
483. 18:49where it says and he said and read it in
484. 18:51the microphone which you told the police
485. 18:54and he said that if they found it
486. 18:55anywhere near the house they are going
487. 18:57to
488. 18:58blame us and the it that he was
489. 19:01referring to
490. 19:01was his 14 day old baby
491. 19:05yes or no yes that's all that i have
492. 19:07done
493. 19:09frost you may step down