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Palmer Luckey Wants to Be Silicon Valley's War King | The Circuit — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:06I'm driving Palmer luy's personal
0:07warship and we're all about to
0:10die sorry
0:15guys so this is a mark 5 Special
0:17Operations craft that I purchased from
0:19the Navy are you sure I'm not going to
0:21flip the boat y you're going to be fine
0:24it's the fastest boat that the Navy ever
0:25built it was designed specifically for
0:28Navy SEAL insertion and extraction
0:30missions it runs really fast and it's a
0:32lot of
0:35fun while this boat may be part of the
0:37Old Navy lucky is trying to bring
0:39Silicon Valley speed and Innovation back
0:42to the Pentagon well some of the United
0:44States technology is very bad it's also
0:47extremely expensive and not necessarily
0:49adapted to the types of conflicts we're
0:51going to see in the future the United
0:52States has a lot of investment in Legacy
0:54weapon systems that are not necessarily
0:57having China quaking in their booze
1:03he's betting his new age defense company
1:05can take a slice of the pentagon's $850
1:07billion budget and reinvent how they do
1:10business from the outside
1:13in that is if they can beat the
1:16incumbents and convince the top brass
1:18that a billionaire founder sporting
1:20Hawaiian shirts is just as serious about
1:23rebooting America's Arsenal as they are
1:25you're not the typical Silicon Valley
1:27founder wearing a black turtleneck nor
1:29are you walking around and talking like
1:31a buttoned up defense contractor CEO
1:33like how does that play I am a little
1:35bit of a caricature uh but it's because
1:37I just haven't changed it was really
1:39easy when we started andall to say
1:41conflict is over we're living at the end
1:43of History this idea of putting our best
1:47brains towards things that can kill
1:50people is a waste of talent and a waste
1:52of money and unethical and that's not
1:55what anyone's saying anymore the war in
1:57Ukraine and China's rapid military ation
2:00have renewed fears that the US defense
2:02industry isn't modernizing fast
2:05enough that's brought a controversial
2:07handshake between Tech and defense back
2:09out in the
2:16[Music]
2:21open the military has a long and storied
2:24history with the tech industry
2:29[Music]
2:31post World War II billions in defense
2:34funding transformed California into
2:36Aerospace and Technology boom
2:38towns the first company to manufacture
2:41microchips that guided missiles
2:43satellites and helped Silicon Valley get
2:45its name was funded by the
2:48Pentagon founders of that very company
2:50pioneered modern-day venture capital and
2:53helped cultivate a vibrant tech
2:56industry today there's a new generation
2:58trying to bring back a America's past
3:01proven by Palmer luy's collection of
3:03unusual Vehicles you sure it still works
3:06it should it
3:07[Laughter]
3:14should
3:21yeah so this is a 1967 Disneyland
3:24autopia uh designed by Bob gur and Walt
3:28Disney as far as I know mine is the only
3:30complete autopia that is outside of the
3:33parks mine has the original Mechanicals
3:36original gear boxes original Wheels the
3:39whole deal when I got it though
3:44uhoh technical
3:48difficulties got a got got a flaad
3:51screwdriver oh there we go look at
3:55that we got to get
3:58moving all right there we go back in
4:01back in business so are you sure this is
4:03street legal we're on the street aren't
4:10we you grew up in Long Beach right not
4:14too far from here that's right close to
4:16the port and it was a place with a lot
4:18of car culture a lot of Aerospace
4:21culture a lot of Defense
4:27activity I grew up watching the the
4:29Marine Corps practice right offshore in
4:32their helicopters watching Navy ships do
4:35exercises and uh you know get it gets in
4:38your brain and it doesn't
4:40[Music]
4:42leave Southern California unlike a lot
4:45of places is a place where almost
4:48everybody knows someone who has served
4:50in the military or has a family member
4:52who served in the military when that's
4:54the case because of the density of
4:56military population here you don't
4:57really have the crazy political ideology
5:00that you get in places like the Baran
5:02but when I started andril of course it
5:05was a totally different world uh defense
5:07was not cool and it was definitely not
5:09the hottest
5:15thing before launching andil lucky
5:18worked on virtual reality headsets in
5:20his parents garage by age 18 he had a
5:23prototype that kickstarted the modern VR
5:26movement and caught the world's
5:27attention including mark Zuckerberg
5:30Zuckerberg bought Oculus for $2 billion
5:34lucky was later ousted the thing is I'm
5:37I'm actually not nearly as political of
5:39a person as people think I am I mean
5:41people think you got kicked out of
5:42Silicon Valley yeah I got kicked out of
5:43Silicon Valley because I made a $99,000
5:45political donation the reason that
5:47people pay attention to it at the end of
5:49the day is because it's novel for a
5:51person in Tech to have supported the
5:53person who became president that year to
5:56be clear he means this guy meta disputes
6:00that lucky was fired for his political
6:01views but whatever the reason the result
6:04was a rift between lucky and the valley
6:07so he turned his attention to defense
6:09and set up shop in Southern
6:12California this my extraordinarily tall
6:16door the house was built in the 1980s
6:19and I've kept all the bones the same I
6:20think it's a pretty cool place has some
6:22good Miami Vice
6:24Vibes I've got my my 2-in uh teal shag
6:28carpet this is my fish tank it's about a
6:306,500 gallon
6:33aquarium this looks like a Dungeons and
6:36Dragons table oh no this is just my
6:38coffee table although it does have a map
6:40of our Dungeons and Dragons campaign
6:42what kind of character are you in
6:43Dungeons and Dragons I aan chaotic
6:45neutral wizard uh named nrim 5 he's from
6:49the Lost Nation of Atlantis how much
6:52success have you had with that pretty
6:54limited so far pretty limited so
6:57far I know you're a big gamer what are
7:00the connections between navigating a
7:01virtual Battlefield and a real
7:03Battlefield probably the the main
7:05similari is are some of the technology
7:06that we're applying to things like heads
7:09up displays and augmented reality for
7:11for soldiers and Airmen to allow them to
7:13see where the danger on the battlefield
7:16is it's also worth noting that really
7:18virtual reality came out of military
7:20research in the first place and the
7:22games industry and the military
7:23industrial complex have always shared
7:25kind of back and forth
7:26[Music]
7:30how'd you get interested in defense
7:32technology I briefly was able to work as
7:35a lab technician on an army project
7:38called Brave mind that it was treating
7:41veterans with PTSD using virtual reality
7:43exposure therapy and that was actually
7:44before I started Oculus I kept in touch
7:46with a lot of friends in the defense
7:47industry and what I heard over and over
7:48again is that it was broken the
7:50incentives were wrong they were being
7:51punished for doing the right thing
7:53rewarded for doing the wrong thing they
7:55made more money when they were over
7:56budget and uh that really got me worried
7:59especially in a world where we were
8:00running a new experiment as a country an
8:02experiment where for the first time in
8:04American history tech companies were not
8:06working with
8:08[Music]
8:10dood the relationship between Silicon
8:13Valley and Washington splintered after
8:15the Cold War top talent caught the do
8:18wave ditching government jobs in
8:20windowless rooms for positions at shiny
8:23Tech firms everybody used to work on
8:25Capitol Hill or the government for the
8:27military now everybody works for an
8:28internet St up the defense industry
8:31Consolidated power around five big
8:33primes to supply the military's hardware
8:36and software it's a large complex
8:38oligopoly with a strict chain of command
8:41that filters ideas through layers upon
8:43layers upon layers of
8:45bureaucracy for Tech startups looking to
8:48get a piece of the action welcome to the
8:50Valley of Death the government tries to
8:53nurture new ideas but the amount of time
8:55it takes to go from prototype to
8:57adoption puts most startups in the
8:59defense Market graveyard it seemed
9:02impossible for Outsiders to compete
9:04until SpaceX and paler sued the
9:06government claiming the bidding system
9:08unfairly favored the incumbents paler
9:11co-founder Peter Teal's Venture firm was
9:13the first to invest in andero it's no
9:15coincidence that the only two companies
9:17to break through in the last 35 years
9:20since the winding down of the Cold War
9:21really uh were both founded by
9:23billionaires it's it's it's unfortunate
9:26but it reflects the reality that we've
9:27created where this muscle we used to
9:29have as a country of turning small
9:31innovated defense companies into large
9:34scale providers of weapons uh we we lost
9:37it and the only way to bypass that was
9:39to already have made billions of dollars
9:41somewhere else as a as a country we need
9:43to do
9:45[Music]
9:50better so this is the old LA Times
9:53Printing plant it was the old LA Times
9:55Printing Press I started Oculus in
9:58Orange County and it was a place where I
10:01could hire people from all over the
10:02country when I moved up to the Bay Area
10:05it actually became a lot harder to hire
10:06people who weren't already in the Bay
10:07Area but this is a place where you can
10:10build great companies that draw from all
10:12of America not just from that one tight
10:15little isolated bubble well I was
10:17actually wondering is it is it is it
10:19hard to poach people from sort of big
10:21tech companies oh no no the way that you
10:23poach people from Big tech companies is
10:24to tell them that their career is
10:26meaningless and that they're wasting
10:28their lives on something that doesn't
10:29matter a decent trick of people when you
10:32can kind of shock them out of the Matrix
10:33being what are you doing with your life
10:35there's big problems in the world and
10:37you're not part of solving them that's
10:39been behind a lot of the people who
10:40leave big tech companies come to work at
10:46andil anderl has been clear from the
10:49get-go to come here is to build weapons
10:51and surveillance
10:53systems they started with this tall
10:56autonomous security tower that sits on
10:58borders in the US and abroad launched in
11:00the early days of the Trump
11:03presidency they've expanded their
11:05Arsenal to autonomous submarines counter
11:07drones and other robots that are cheaper
11:09to build with menacing
11:12names this is a halfs scale model of
11:14Fury which is an autonomous fighter jet
11:18that we're
11:19building this is wisp this is scanning
11:23infrared imager that's able to detect
11:25aircraft by building a 360° sphere that
11:28it integrates as
11:30scams and uh this is an electronic
11:32warfare system it can jam and hack and
11:36make sure that you're able to talk and
11:38the other guy isn't in a whole bunch of
11:40really powerful
11:42ways you're trying to run a defense tech
11:44company like a startup how does that
11:47compare to like lockie Martin and Boeing
11:50and how do you get Washington to accept
11:52that most new R&D is down on a Cost Plus
11:55basis meaning the contractor gets paid
11:56for their time their materials and then
11:58a fixed percentage of profit on top of
12:00course that incentivizes you to come up
12:03with expensive Solutions and to drag it
12:05out as long as as long as you can andal
12:08we're the opposite because we're a
12:09defense Products company that makes
12:11things that work and sell them rather
12:13than getting paid to do work uh it means
12:17that when we do something faster it
12:18helps our profit
12:22margins You're Building Products that
12:24the government doesn't even know it
12:25needs yet right very often it's pretty
12:28rare that we work on something that is
12:30consensus in the government where
12:32there's widespread belief that what
12:33we're doing is the right solution to the
12:35problem often we're building things that
12:36they've written off as not feasible or
12:39not viable there was a lot of skepticism
12:42about applying artificial intelligence
12:44to defense a lot of skeptic about
12:45artificial intelligence in general chat
12:47GPT was one of the most helpful
12:49Technologies to us because it helped
12:51convince people that AI can do things
12:53they didn't believe computers could
12:56do are we getting to a point where
12:59battles could be fought by Ai and
13:00counter AI only we're not going to have
13:03systems that are acting entirely on
13:04their own without human Direction but
13:07will we see dog fights between AI
13:09fighter jets that don't have people in
13:10them yes absolutely in fact in Ukraine
13:12there's been a variety of engagements
13:14where you had uh unmanned systems
13:16destroying other unmanned systems it
13:18seems like what's happening in Ukraine
13:20has marked a shift in in Warfare
13:23strategy what's happening in Ukraine is
13:25is fascinating because they can't afford
13:28to treat Warfare as a thing to be think
13:32tanked or as a thing to be debated in
13:35white
13:36papers they have to actually win today
13:39and that means that a lot of barriers to
13:41trying new ideas have been lifted and
13:43that's one of the reasons you've seen
13:44for example the proliferation of small
13:46unmanned armed quadcopters it's why
13:48you've seen the proliferation of a lot
13:49of really interesting counterd drone
13:51systems things that were not nearly
13:53mature enough to be deployed let's say
13:55by the United States uh but they are
13:57willing to deploy them in a very early
13:58stage maturity because they know they
14:01can't win doing things the old
14:04[Music]
14:06way the old way meant having the biggest
14:09most expensive weapon on the
14:11battlefield now it's about having a
14:13swarm of commercial technology available
14:15quickly and
14:17cheaply to that end the Pentagon
14:19recently announced the replicator
14:21program to FastTrack thousands of
14:23lowcost autonomous drones startups and
14:26Venture capitalists who historically
14:28shunned military work declared it's time
14:30to build to get in on the action the old
14:33school way of working through five six
14:35large primes and developing technology
14:38just doesn't work you have to work with
14:39the private sector to bring new
14:41technologies in big Tech firms have had
14:44more long-term success offering Hardware
14:46Ai and cloud services in exchange for
14:49billion dooll deals but there's been
14:51friction on the tech company side from
14:54Engineers who don't want anything to do
14:55with the military some tech employees
14:58have pushed back on working with the US
14:59government and the US military do you
15:01see where they're coming from
15:03fundamentally I think it's an emotional
15:04thing they came to a company to work on
15:06consumer Tech they weren't told that
15:08their work would be used for potentially
15:12violence and they don't like that and I
15:14I I empathize with that because to them
15:16it feels like a little bit of a bait and
15:21switch critics see the technology You're
15:23Building worry it could be misused on
15:25American citizens for example are they
15:27right to worry oh of course anything can
15:29be misused but like if you want to point
15:31to things that can be misused against
15:33American citizens I mean the military
15:34has a lot of guns the military has a lot
15:37of aircraft you have to have trust in
15:40the system you have to believe that
15:43democracy works and you have to believe
15:45that the right way to control these is
15:47on the policy side there are actually
15:49things I would like to build that the
15:50dod would not use and would not deploy
15:52that they do think are beyond the pale
15:54and that's the way that it should be US
15:56foreign policy and military policy
15:57shouldn't be in the hands corporate
16:02Executives the heart of ander's
16:04Technology isn't its Hardware but it's
16:09software Engineers here have developed a
16:12proprietary AI driven system called
16:14lattice that acts like an intelligent
16:16control center for the company's
16:17Hardware lce is our AI system for
16:21controlling distributed robots we're
16:23doing processing and computer vision
16:24machine learning on that data and
16:26producing an operating picture of the
16:28world so we understand the chessboard so
16:31to speak and then the autonomy can apply
16:34those very logical decisions about what
16:37to do and move forward and act so walk
16:39me through the process from
16:42identification to decision or decisions
16:44so we've got a manned crew that's going
16:46to try and fly in and land somewhere
16:48they have some Mission they need to do
16:49on the ground but there's threats that
16:51are unknown so we're going to send the
16:53autonomous systems forward they're going
16:55to try and draw out any enemy fire and
16:58with the autonomous systems you're okay
17:00if they if they die you're okay if they
17:02get taken out because that tells you
17:04more information about the the
17:06battlefield so that you can make
17:07informed decisions interesting but
17:08there's still a long way to go still a
17:10lot to build y there's the old saying
17:13Hardware is hard the United States used
17:15to be able to build things that would
17:17fly twice as fast as our adversaries and
17:19we'd be twice as fast for a decade those
17:22days are gone Hardware advantages like
17:24that are going to be quickly copied by
17:25our adversaries so a lot of the most
17:27durable advantages we build for example
17:30using software to make decisions twice
17:32as fast or 10 times as fast is a is a
17:34capability that I don't think our
17:35adversaries are close to to
17:38copying Lattis is just one example of
17:41the military's increasing use of
17:45AI the Pentagon has been developing
17:47project Maven an AI system that analyzes
17:50images from military drones and helps
17:52suggest targets Google initially won
17:55this contract in 2018 but backed out
17:57after thousands of work workers
17:59protested the deal paler Amazon
18:02Microsoft and anderl are currently among
18:04the main
18:05contributors Maven is now deployed but
18:08there are still open questions about
18:10ai's combat Readiness at the end of the
18:12day you just have to be correct and
18:14you're doing it from
18:16afar and so uh yes I would still submit
18:19that that is one of the toughest things
18:21that my organizations have encountered
18:23is that idea of distinguishing enemy
18:26from non-enemy or combatant from
18:27non-combatant and the scale of it is
18:31impressive there are concerns that AI
18:33could deepen the fog of War what do you
18:35think about that no I I super I super
18:37disagree I think AI is going to be a
18:39tool to put all the cards on the table
18:41for everyone my hope is that you're
18:43going to have dictators who make better
18:45decisions because even they have better
18:47information from AI let's use Putin as
18:49an example I don't think he would have
18:51launched this invasion in Ukraine if he
18:54would have understood what was actually
18:56going to happen remember they believe
18:57this is like a 3 days Special Operation
18:59they were going to roll in it was going
19:01to be over very very quickly if he had
19:03had a better understanding of what he
19:05had and what they had I think he
19:06probably would not have made the
19:08play there are a lot of thorny ethical
19:11questions we're talking about a possible
19:13future of self-guided bombs and Killer
19:15Robots who is liable when a human isn't
19:18in the loop the key is that a person is
19:21responsible for the deployment of those
19:22systems the existence of an algorithm
19:25cannot replace human responsibility for
19:28deploying that weapon system and it has
19:30to be a person who deeply understands
19:32the limitations of that system and who's
19:34going to be held to account when it goes
19:36wrong but or as hell and it's not going
19:37to be perfect there will be people who
19:40are killed by AI who should not have
19:42been killed that is a a certainty if
19:46artificial intelligence becomes a core
19:47part of the way that we fight Wars we
19:49need to make sure that people remain
19:51accountable for that because that's the
19:52only thing that'll drive us to better
19:54Solutions and fewer inadvertent deaths
19:57fewer civilian casualties I don't want
19:59AI to do these things but a lot of times
20:01the existing Technologies are much
20:07worse China and Taiwan how does this
20:10play out it can play out in a lot of
20:11different ways everything that Andel is
20:14working on on the R&D side is oriented
20:17towards that fight right now China
20:20believes that they can take Taiwan they
20:22believe that the United States is some
20:24combination of won't stop them isn't
20:26willing to stop them won't win if we do
20:28try to stop them they believe Taiwan is
20:30in a similar position with their own
20:32military we have to change their minds
20:34I'm probably going to eat these words
20:36but if China ends up invading Taiwan I'm
20:39going to feel like we've really failed
20:41in our
20:43[Music]
20:45mission you actually spent a lot of time
20:47in China working on Oculus headsets what
20:50do you know about China's capabilities
20:52in AI what don't you know I spent time
20:55in China back in the Oculus days because
20:57that's where we did our Manufacturing
20:58and we didn't really have a
21:01choice I deeply understand how dependent
21:05our country has become on Chinese
21:07manufacturing Chinese engineering
21:09Chinese supply chain materials it's
21:11really extraordinary how they've pulled
21:14themselves up from almost nothing to
21:16being an economic superpower and we did
21:18this too we're the ones that gave him
21:20the blueprints we're the ones that gave
21:22them the tech we're the ones that
21:24shipped it all overseas and I'm part of
21:25the problem I'm one of the guys who did
21:26it what a do you worry that China is
21:30outpacing the US on technological
21:33innovation like could the US military
21:37lose it its Edge to China well depending
21:39on who you ask China has between 50
21:43times and 300 times the military ship
21:46building capacity of the United States
21:48this is a huge problem especially if
21:50you're fighting a war where you lose all
21:51your ships and it takes you decades to
21:53rebuild they lose all their ships and
21:56they rebuild the same year this is
21:58really inarguably an area where China
22:00has outpaced the United States now they
22:02haven't outpaced us everywhere but in a
22:04lot of the areas that matter for a fight
22:07in the Pacific they are kicking our ass
22:09and the United States is not going to be
22:11able to win by following the same
22:14strategy they do we're not going to be
22:15able to build enough shipyards and train
22:18enough welders to build 300 times more
22:20ships that's off the table so we have to
22:22win with our brains despite all its
22:24Innovation andal and other defense Tech
22:27startups are still bit players in the
22:29world of military
22:30suppliers Venture capitalists plowed in
22:33a hundred billion doll between 2021 and
22:362023 but only a handful of companies
22:39have won meaningful
22:40[Music]
22:42contracts right now andal is very much
22:44in a high- growth stage we've done a lot
22:45of things that I'm very very proud of
22:47but I'm very aware of the fact that we
22:49are not a profitable business we are
22:53living on borrowed time and so I I I
22:56it's hard for me to come and feel like
22:57I've made it when I know that you know
23:00anyone can raise money from VCS buy a
23:02really big office and fill it full of
23:05people the question is are those people
23:07building the right things and will those
23:08things pay
23:14off it's not your average Newport Beach
23:16Boat no it's not is it most of my
23:19neighbors like it and a handful hate it
23:22but that's good enough we've got a mock
23:25M2 heavy barrel 50bmg machine gun have
23:28real ones that I can that I can throw on
23:30but I I I keep I keep the fake ones on
23:32most of the time one of the other cool
23:34features of the boat is these shock
23:37mounted seats you'll notice they bounce
23:40up and down so we're going to go below
23:42deck into the Navigator's
23:44room this is also where we run all of
23:46our Communications gear processing gear
23:48computer gear radio gear you've got all
23:50of your rifle racks here so that you can
23:52rack them
23:54up so these are twin MTU engines the
23:58boat's got a little over 5,000
24:00horsepower this whole thing is basically
24:03a big giant jet
24:06[Music]
24:10ski so what else do you have in your
24:12personal Arsenal oh I got a whole bunch
24:14of stuff got a uh60 Blackhawk 1985 X
24:18Marine Corp hanvey how many helicopters
24:21I used to have seven but I only have six
24:23now I do hear that you have a vault
24:26where you have every video game
24:29ever created a while ago I purchased the
24:31world's largest video game collection
24:33and I I also collect US Air Force
24:35nuclear missile bases so I put that in
24:37one of my missile bases 200 ft
24:39underground where's that oh I can't tell
24:43[Music]
24:48you all
24:50right we're going to do some turns
24:53everybody hold on
24:57[Music]
25:03all right what was that that was one of
25:05our own weeks but we're going to go find
25:06one of the other ones hold
25:11[Music]
25:16on you want to try steering I'm good all
25:20right we'll bring us down to
25:25zero so as we accelerate uh you're going
25:28to hear first the first turbocharger
25:30kicked in and then after we get at about
25:3120 knots you're going to hear the second
25:34turbocharger kick in and that's when the
25:35engine changes
25:41pitch I try a starboard turn you're
25:43going to move your stick over to the
25:44right and then watch your positions
25:47here I'm turning a
25:50warship when I say Center Center center
25:53now there you
25:55go we're going fast like the the beach
25:59is approaching all right we're going to
26:01do a a little bit of a fast stop you're
26:03going to pull on the throttle just pull
26:05pull keep going give it here we go all
26:07right leave it
26:10there there you go oh my
26:14God so am I hired
26:19no you started endural in 2017 and
26:22you've lived through Silicon Valley in
26:24the era of zerp and easy money sure what
26:27do you think about the frenzy the zero
26:30interest rate phenomenon yeah there's a
26:32lot of companies that shouldn't have
26:33existed they never should have been
26:34funded all that money went to paying
26:36people to do things that were a waste of
26:38time I know lots of young Founders who
26:41were working on crypto art nonsense and
26:46a fifth delivery app or a 10th delivery
26:48app and now that money has become harder
26:50to come by you know what they're working
26:51on they're working on energy they're
26:53working on National Security they're
26:54working on transportation and uh I I
26:57think that I I see people working on
26:59real problems because the market forced
27:02them to and that's a good thing in my
27:04opinion so it's time to build it's time
27:06to
27:11built the war in Ukraine it's been 2
27:14years now how are we going to look back
27:16on it well I think that we're going to
27:18look back on it as one of the best
27:21examples of the hubis of the modern era
27:24thinking that we lived at the end of
27:25History the end of conflict the large
27:27scale War was a thing of the past that
27:29artillery is irrelevant that Manpower is
27:31irrelevant that sternly worded letters
27:33from the United Nations mean anything at
27:35all to expansionist dictators like Putin
27:38or X that's I think going to be the
27:40legacy of this
27:42fight is the US government working fast
27:45enough to like Foster the agility we
27:47need to to survive or win Global
27:49conflicts it depends on what kinds of
27:51fights we fight hopefully we have enough
27:53time uh we might not why not well let's
27:56say that China starts making moves on
27:59Taiwan and moves on other countries in
28:01the next 24 months I think we're going
28:04to be in
28:06trouble I think in 36 months 48 months
28:09we're actually still kind of in trouble
28:10if it takes long enough I think that the
28:12United States military has recognized
28:14the problem uh but you know like you're
28:15steering this boat when you turned how
28:18long did it take for the boat to respond
28:20a while it was a bit of a lag time the
28:22US military is the same way it's a large
28:24machine it takes a long time to move
28:26even once you've applied the control
28:29even if once you've applied the input I
28:30think that's the phase we're in the
28:32government has realized the problem
28:33they've applied the input we're waiting
28:35for the system to adjust
28:46[Music]

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