PADDY HILL ON THE RTE LATE LATE SHOW IN 1991 - BIRMINGHAM 6 - IRELAND — Transcript

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1. 0:03tell them Richard about the about when
2. 0:06you first went you were taking in the
3. 0:08first time and the belting that you got
4. 0:10and the and the and the roughing up you
5. 0:12have tell them you mean the police
6. 0:14station yeah the no not in the police
7. 0:16station in the prison when you were
8. 0:17finally taken to the prison and they
9. 0:19were waiting for you you're out of the
10. 0:20van through the door and suddenly Bang
11. 0:23Yeah well we were told a strip and uh
12. 0:28there was some prison cloth thrown at
13. 0:30and I was told to stand on the scale to
14. 0:33be we so I I stepped on the scale and
15. 0:37the next thing my face was smashed into
16. 0:39the wall like you know from
17. 0:42behind it was stand right against the
18. 0:45wall like you know and uh hell just
19. 0:48broke loose like you know was screaming
20. 0:51screws come run in from everywhere there
21. 0:54were hordes of them you know and we
22. 0:56started running we didn't know where we
23. 0:59were running like you know we just ran
24. 1:00wherever there was an opening like and
25. 1:02try and get through it but they came at
26. 1:05us from every direction they were Ling
27. 1:08out others with their fists or whatever
28. 1:09they had in their hands and their boots
29. 1:11and everything else like it and then uh
30. 1:14in one place there had been a door left
31. 1:17open and we went in there was a a cell
32. 1:20large cell type room a couple of benches
33. 1:23on we lay down on it and Jerry says if
34. 1:27this keeps up we are all dead like you
35. 1:30know cuz we were all bleeding from all
36. 1:32over the place like you
37. 1:34know um and then I screw run and he says
38. 1:37come on get out you bastards get out
39. 1:40like you know I lo of fire language like
40. 1:43and we were right again and it was all
41. 1:46off again they were there waiting for us
42. 1:48like you
43. 1:49know and uh it was pretty horrific like
44. 1:53and this was trunion and hands anything
45. 1:56anything they had like we got a lot I
46. 1:58can't remember a trunion but hands we
47. 2:00were getting after after we left this
48. 2:03room we we went onto the wing and they
49. 2:05were waiting for us again it's both
50. 2:07prisoners and prison officers and uh
51. 2:10there was a a general melee were all
52. 2:13beating us punching us kicking us and we
53. 2:15tried the stairway was very narrow
54. 2:17stairwell you know and we tried to get
55. 2:19up we were fighting among ourselves to
56. 2:21get up the stairway to get away from
57. 2:22them as we've gone up to the top I think
58. 2:25we turned right and there's still
59. 2:27there's more officers there and they're
60. 2:29they're kicking us and punching us and
61. 2:31we're running along we don't know we're
62. 2:33dazed we're shocked terrified and
63. 2:36they're putting us into each in the
64. 2:38individual
65. 2:40cell and the doors would bang I was in
66. 2:43the last cell Putty was facing me on the
67. 2:45other side and I I remember I could hear
68. 2:48a door opening everything went quiet
69. 2:50down for about 10 minutes I heard a door
70. 2:52opening more shouting more
71. 2:56language
72. 2:58screaming this one on another the door
73. 3:01closed another one opened until then it
74. 3:03came to my turn and the door opened
75. 3:06downstairs for a bath but run through a
76. 3:09gauntlet of prison
77. 3:10officers they're all woring white coats
78. 3:13short white coats and the same same
79. 3:15thing they're B beating us punching us
80. 3:17kicking us spitting on us calling us
81. 3:19well calling me all the names got a bath
82. 3:21the bath was was ice cold it was uh also
83. 3:25black the dirt with no shoes hadn't had
84. 3:29shoes for three days or something and uh
85. 3:33was full of hair our hair was pulled out
86. 3:35it was also full of
87. 3:38blood and uh ducked in the bath 2
88. 3:42seconds that was my bath Straight Out
89. 3:45close off they threw a tow at me and I
90. 3:47had to run naked up through these
91. 3:49officers again back to the Cil and I
92. 3:52stood there for must have been another 6
93. 3:55hours I it wouldn't let me sit
94. 3:58down doctor come around in about an hour
95. 4:03opened the door said what's your
96. 4:04injuries and we standing there he took
97. 4:07half the what the bruisers he took was
98. 4:10caused by the police what was running
99. 4:12with blood and and whatnot he just
100. 4:14ignored didn't want to know cuz he knew
101. 4:17it was caused ra uh by the prison
102. 4:20officers you know
103. 4:21and if he had had done his job right we
104. 4:24wouldn't have done the sentence it's as
105. 4:25simple as that correct correct in in the
106. 4:29time eventually um both the prison
107. 4:32Prisoners the other prisoners and who
108. 4:34had been referring to you as stinking
109. 4:35Irish bastards and all the usual things
110. 4:38and the prison officers uh it began to
111. 4:41get easier easier eventually now
112. 4:42eventually I'm talking about but during
113. 4:44the very rough time during the time
114. 4:46you're talking about initially was there
115. 4:48any one prison waterer who who showed
116. 4:51any any feeling for you what kind in win
117. 4:54green yeah I got it uh I got two
118. 4:57actually one was in win Green in the
119. 4:59initial like which was pretty rough when
120. 5:03we slapped out you know you go to the
121. 5:05the recess you've got your washing Bowl
122. 5:07you've got your water jug you've got uh
123. 5:10your uh chamber pot and all these things
124. 5:13to carry and you can only make one trip
125. 5:16and you had to do it on the run on the
126. 5:18double and we couldn't spend more than 3
127. 5:20minutes in there and we were shouted
128. 5:22that all the time and uh never been in
129. 5:24prison before we thought everyone was
130. 5:27experiencing the same the same thing but
131. 5:29it was and so but this prison officer I
132. 5:31never forget him I know his name and all
133. 5:32I'm not going to mention him and he come
134. 5:34up to me and he says look look his son
135. 5:35he says take no notice of me he says if
136. 5:38I shout at you it's because of the rest
137. 5:40of these people he says I don't mean it
138. 5:42and that's stayed with me throughout the
139. 5:44years you know and it's made a great
140. 5:45impression on me at the time just one
141. 5:47yeah and one a g Tre in fact he just
142. 5:50wrote to me two weeks ago in fact he
143. 5:52wrote to Chris mull here and Chris reled
144. 5:54the letter onto me yeah and he he's
145. 5:56offered me down to his home cuz he
146. 5:58always thought I was guilty and you know
147. 6:00innocent innocent and he he's he's wrote
148. 6:03and he says uh I I'd like to meet you
149. 6:06again your kids and that and your wife
150. 6:08and children and I still got the letter
151. 6:10and who knows someday I going get down
152. 6:11to see him you know why why do you think
153. 6:13was it just because you thought you were
154. 6:15innocent or was he just a well we had a
155. 6:16great Rapport in the prison in Gart this
156. 6:19was again in the early stages from uh 75
157. 6:22to 78 you know and uh I mean there's
158. 6:25plenty officers after that but of course
159. 6:27but I'm talking about the rough rough
160. 6:29time everybody was against you there was
161. 6:31just one then two two is this the same
162. 6:34the same two for you Richard yeah
163. 6:36everywhere you go you'll find at least
164. 6:38one like who would go against the grain
165. 6:41type of thing like you know he couldn't
166. 6:43do it
167. 6:44openly but he would say something too
168. 6:47when there was no no one else around
169. 6:49like you know uh he passed certain
170. 6:51remarks like you know and he trying to
171. 6:53be friendly type you know and but really
172. 6:57at the beginning we didn't know who we
173. 6:59should TR TR these people or not like
174. 7:00you know so I just rank them all like
175. 7:03you
176. 7:04know because I after what has happened
177. 7:07to us like you know so horrific like you
178. 7:09know I thought well none of them these
179. 7:11people can be trusted doesn't matter
180. 7:13what they say like you know I I've heard
181. 7:16you tended to them like you know yeah
182. 7:19I've heard you talking now several times
183. 7:21uh in interviews and so on since you
184. 7:22came out and I can't get over the the
185. 7:25lack of
186. 7:26ranker and the lack of bitterness in you
187. 7:29well as far as I'm concerned there's no
188. 7:32sense
189. 7:33in feeling hatred or bitterness or car
190. 7:36carrying it around with you because the
191. 7:38longer you carry it the more you're
192. 7:40going to fect yourself and the people
193. 7:42around you and the people you love
194. 7:44because it begins to expand and the
195. 7:47people can feel it when you're talking
196. 7:49to them it's not a thing you can switch
197. 7:51on and off like a tap you have to get
198. 7:53rid of it you know you got to stop you
199. 7:56got to start thinking you started
200. 7:58relating to people as people you got to
201. 8:00start looking for the Gooden people you
202. 8:02know if you don't like you're only going
203. 8:04to destroy yourself is this religious in
204. 8:07origin or oh uh when I went in the
205. 8:12prison first I lost any religion that I
206. 8:15had you know I got it back eventually
207. 8:17but had a long hard struggle like you
208. 8:20know to get back to where I was where I
209. 8:24Haden and and how how did that happen
210. 8:28well it was because I realized what was
211. 8:30happening I was so bitter you know and I
212. 8:34knew what I was doing when I went on
213. 8:36visits I couldn't turn this off so my
214. 8:38family were beginning to feel this
215. 8:40coming through from me like you know it
216. 8:42wasn't directed at them but as I say you
217. 8:46can't switch it off and they can feel it
218. 8:48as well like so I was upset in them and
219. 8:50I I finally realized I got to stop
220. 8:53this I knew what I was doing like you
221. 8:56know so I I tried to stop it I tried to
222. 9:00pray it was very very very hard like you
223. 9:02know I couldn't pray at first like you
224. 9:04know because I'd been going too long but
225. 9:07after a struggle there things began to
226. 9:09ease off and I slowly got back to normal
227. 9:12again what about you
228. 9:14petty I've seen a lot of people in jail
229. 9:16and you find them in every jail and
230. 9:20people are very bitter and
231. 9:22twisted and you can't get a two minutes
232. 9:24conversation out of them you
233. 9:26know they haven't got a good word to say
234. 9:28about anybody anything and what we used
235. 9:30to say to each other and the others like
236. 9:32there but for the grace of God go
237. 9:34why me I'm the practical joker out of
238. 9:37the sex of like you know I like to have
239. 9:38a good crack and a laugh and I'm the
240. 9:42sort of person that won't be down for
241. 9:44long but to see some of the people going
242. 9:46around in jail that are bitter and
243. 9:47twisted and all it's like a disease it
244. 9:49it eat from within and there ain't
245. 9:52nothing there only a
246. 9:54shell me I made a ro from the start that
247. 9:58I was going to prove me innocence and I
248. 9:59made a rule also I was going to try and
249. 10:01come out more or less the same man as
250. 10:02what I went in I knew that when I come
251. 10:05out it was going to be three things
252. 10:07different I was going to be a little bit
253. 10:08older a little bit sadder but a hell of
254. 10:10a lot wiser and that's the way I've come
255. 10:12out as you you know and thank God like
256. 10:14for all of us there's none of us angry
257. 10:18like I've heard people pass remarks
258. 10:19about what I said outside to Bailey they
259. 10:22said it was very angry very forceful
260. 10:24maybe it was but then again the truth is
261. 10:26always
262. 10:27forceful angry yes why should shouldn't
263. 10:29I be angry I've had to sit in the prison
264. 10:32cell for 16 and 1 12 years and see them
265. 10:34just take my life away for nothing and
266. 10:37they used us they told us from the start
267. 10:39that they knew we hadn't done it they
268. 10:41told us they didn't care who done it and
269. 10:44they told us that we had been
270. 10:45picked and they said that they had us
271. 10:47and that was good enough as long as they
272. 10:49got convictions they're happy and keeps
273. 10:50the ga public off their Gaffers back and
274. 10:52their Gaffers off
275. 10:54ours the committ offered me Bits of
276. 10:56Paper to
277. 10:57sign nothing on them
278. 11:00when we saying there we'll take care of
279. 11:02it we go and get your wife your kids we
280. 11:04bring them down to you that no they
281. 11:07weren't interested in Justice or nothing
282. 11:09you know they just wanted bodies and
283. 11:11that's what they told us not only that
284. 11:13when they were Bing towards me they told
285. 11:15me they pointed like that and he said we
286. 11:17have orders right from the very top to
287. 11:21do what we want with you as long as we
288. 11:23get a confessionary of you your name a
289. 11:25bit of paper that's
290. 11:27all and that's exactly what they done
291. 11:30and they done it with
292. 11:31impunity you know and we ain't the only
293. 11:34ones there's loads of people in ja but
294. 11:37the degree of brutality and torture
295. 11:38against them couldn't be leveled that
296. 11:40the police the seems have been leveled
297. 11:42in our case you know what about you
298. 11:44Jerry how did you
299. 11:45survive same way I realized well say
300. 11:50after five years or so that if I did if
301. 11:53I was bitter there was a certain amount
302. 11:56of bitterness I got anger yes
303. 11:58frustration ation obviously uh I
304. 12:01couldn't go on like this I couldn't go
305. 12:02on with this bitterness towards the
306. 12:04place and that and I I had to accept
307. 12:08that it would only destroy me and I
308. 12:11accept it from an early stage as to say
309. 12:14that the only way I'm coming through
310. 12:16this is to forgive them what you done