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"Our biggest expense is capex - and it has increased significantly." - Nadine Aerts, CFO PoAB — Transcript

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0:12Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a new
0:14season of the CFO podcast. For the
0:16first time, we are recording our
0:18conversations from our brand-new
0:20studios in Antwerp. Realized together
0:22with our partners. And in terms of
0:24symbolism, this really hits the mark.
0:26We are opening this new season with the
0:28CFO of Port of Antwerp-Bruges, Nadine
0:31Aarts. Port of Antwerp-Bruges is not
0:33just any company. It is one of
0:35Belgium's biggest economic engines. And
0:37that is precisely why the role of the
0:39CFO here is particularly interesting.
0:41Because behind the port lies a business
0:44model that must keep working in a
0:45rapidly changing world. With
0:48macroeconomic pressure, with
0:50geopolitical uncertainty, with
0:52investment needs, with public
0:53shareholders, and of course with the
0:55question of how you safeguard financial
0:57muscle in the long term. Nadine made
1:01the switch from SD Worx to Port of
1:03Antwerp-Bruges and has been the CFO of
1:06the Port of Antwerp since August 2025.
1:09The central question of this
1:10conversation: how does the CFO of Port
1:13of Antwerp-Bruges safeguard the
1:14financial strength of Belgium's biggest
1:17economic engine? Nadine, welcome to the
1:24CFO podcast. It gives me great pleasure
1:26to be able to have this conversation
1:28with you in Antwerp. But I always start
1:30with the same question. Who is Nadine?
1:32What is your story? Thank you for
1:35letting me be here and for letting me
1:37be the first to appear in this studio.
1:40Mine too. My story is one that is about
1:43doing what you love to do.
1:46Mhm. Surrounding yourself with the
1:49right people and, actually, mostly
1:51about seeing opportunities and taking
1:53them.
1:57I started my career or my studies as a
2:00commercial engineer in policy
2:01informatics a long time ago. And my
2:09first job was actually at a smaller
2:11consultancy firm as an IT consultant,
2:13CRM consultant, I worked for a while as
2:15a consultant at Toyota as a business
2:17analyst, and that is how I ended up at
2:19SD Worx as a business analyst in the
2:21Finance department.
2:25Okay. Yes.
2:26That was a long time ago, in 2002. Back
2:29then, SD Worx was not as well-known a
2:31company as it is today. It was mainly a
2:33non-profit organization. Mhm.
2:36But then, through various steps within
2:38finance, I also went outside of finance
2:40to the business side for a while. Under
2:44the mentorship of the then-CFO, Hector
2:47Vermeersch. And
2:50I saw the podcast with Niels de
2:52Bremaecker, CFO of SD Worx Investment,
2:54who also mentioned Hector as a mentor.
2:56For me, he has certainly been a mentor
2:59as well. And that is why I brought that
3:00up at the beginning. It is very
3:02important to surround yourself with the
3:04right people. Together with him, we
3:07didn't exactly map out a path. That
3:10path emerged along the way. Held
3:14various roles within SD Worx before
3:16becoming CFO in 2019 of...
3:21Is it important for a finance
3:22professional to have a mentor early in
3:24their career? For me, I found it
3:29important because, well, early in your
3:31career, you don't always know which
3:33direction you're headed. For example,
3:36it wasn't clear for me. I actually
3:39didn't know that I would really pursue
3:41a career within finance. And Hector
3:47gave me the space to try different
3:48opportunities, right? As I said, I also
3:53spent some time in the business. I was
3:56the first business manager of Flex
3:58Income Plan. A product invented by SD
4:01Worx in Belgium.
4:03So I got to learn completely different
4:05things there, but I also noticed I
4:07missed the numbers. And then, thanks to
4:10Hector, we started looking back at what
4:12role I could play within finance again.
4:14Because, of course, the world keeps
4:17turning. And I was able to do
4:18completely different things. I was able
4:21to collaborate on cross-company
4:23projects together with McKinsey and
4:25Accenture. And that shaped me and built
4:30my background to become a CFO, which,
4:33by the way, I never thought was for me.
4:36Because I didn't follow a classic path.
4:38I was never in audit.
4:40I never did controlling. I actually
4:42always did other roles. But then I
4:46became CFO at the end of 2019, in a
4:48difficult period, appointed in December
4:51'19. In January 2020, we, as an entire
4:56organization—we were in 12 countries
4:59at the time—switched to a new ERP
5:01package. We were a pilot.
5:03It was S/4HANA, and we were truly a
5:05pilot back then.
5:06Yeah. You were very early then.
5:08Very early. And that didn't happen
5:10without a struggle. So that wasn't easy
5:13. And then months later, Corona broke
5:15out. So I, to say it in Antwerp style,
5:18really had a hard time. Very difficult.
5:23Those were weeks where you were putting
5:25in over 100 hours. Which was possible
5:28because the social calendar was
5:30completely empty during Corona.
5:33And I did that after a difficult 2020
5:35with a lot of passion and drive. I also
5:38experienced the whole transition from
5:40an NPO-like company to one much more
5:43commercial, right up to the entry of
5:45CVC.
5:46In 2023. The company has completely
5:50changed over all these years. But I did
5:54notice, although I really liked working
5:56with CVC, there was a dynamic that
5:58maybe suited me a little less. And um,
6:04yeah, when it was decided that I was
6:06going to leave SD Worx, it was my
6:08intention to take up my career again.
6:11Because to be honest, there's quite a
6:13bit of involved with it too. Yeah.
6:15Yeah.
6:16It's not all rainbows and sunshine. Um,
6:20I actually wanted to become a
6:21management consultant and start a
6:23business from scratch, but then the
6:25opportunity to become CFO of Port of
6:27Antwerp-Bruges happened to come along.
6:32Um, and then I thought, yeah, what are
6:34the odds of being able to take such a
6:36position again at a company that is so
6:38important? Um, what kind of one? Um,
6:43headquarters in Belgium, that is. Yeah,
6:46and also indeed in my Antwerp. Although
6:49, not unimportant to mention, I also
6:51have a pied-à-terre on the coast next
6:53to Zeebrugge in Blankenberge. So I
6:55definitely have a connection there as
6:57well.
6:58And um, I took that step with a heavy
7:00heart, because I had no background in
7:02the port.
7:04So as you said, started at the end of
7:06August with a lot of enthusiasm, and
7:08without one day of regret, I've been
7:10there for a year now.
7:11Yeah. Now, what a switch, huh? You make
7:14a switch from a private company. Yes.
7:17to at the very least a semi-state
7:19company, if I may call it that. How was
7:22that, actually? And I'm especially
7:24curious to know what you had to unlearn
7:26to be able to flourish in such an
7:28organization?
7:29Yes, so um, Port of Antwerp-Bruges is a
7:32public limited company. So we aren't
7:34exactly government. We are somewhere in
7:36between.
7:37Hence my choice of words.
7:38Yes. Yes, that's right, isn't it? So it
7:41is a very specific status. Hm.
7:44Um, what I had to unlearn is doing
7:45things perhaps a bit less quickly. I
7:49certainly did in my last years at SD
7:51Worx. Everything went very fast. Um,
7:54yeah, you're tied to public procurement
7:57laws, I had to learn. That is also a
7:59bit of a hobbyhorse of mine. I
8:01understand why it exists, but it's not
8:03always easy to work in such a structure
8:05.
8:07So for me, it was a lot about pacing.
8:10Um, pacing.
8:11Pacing, yes. You also have to bring
8:14people along. You come from a different
8:16culture. It helps that I experienced
8:18that same shift of culture or change of
8:21culture at SD Worx.
8:23Hm hm. And what was also something to
8:25get used to for me was, well, I worked
8:28at SD Worx for more than 23 years. So I
8:31started there as a kid. Everyone knew
8:34me, I knew everyone. So you have a
8:36certain connection with the people, and
8:38then suddenly you join a company as CFO
8:40. They address you as ma'am and use
8:42formal language. Um, you don't know
8:45everyone. Uh, you have a different
8:46relationship with the people. So that
8:48takes some getting used to for me, that
8:50you
8:51yes, take on a different position there
8:53and no longer know the "catacombs," so
8:55to speak, of other companies.
8:57Now, Port of Antwerp-Bruges is
8:59mentioned as the most important
9:01economic engine in Belgium. That’s
9:04quite a heavy weight to carry. How does
9:06it actually feel to be the CFO of such
9:08a company? Well, the company itself is
9:11just a small gear in the whole thing,
9:13right? It’s mainly our customers, who
9:18work in the port directly or indirectly
9:20, who make the ports—because it’s
9:23not just Antwerp, but also Zeebrugge—
9:25account for about 6%of the Belgian GDP.
9:29That is actually immense, isn't it? It
9:31is immense. It has also grown compared
9:33to a few years ago. That certainly
9:35shows the importance of the port. Um,
9:37Port of Antwerp-Bruges itself as a
9:39company obviously plays an important
9:41role in that. Um, we ensure that the
9:45traffic can flow. A bit like an airport
9:48where you have air traffic control. Yes
9:51, we also ensure that ships can get in
9:53and out safely. Um, but also, um, yes,
9:58we help determine what the investments
10:00are in that port, and that involves
10:02immense sums. And that is a
10:06responsibility that should not be
10:08underestimated. Especially in a period
10:14that has been quite marked by the past
10:16year, where I have seen the evolution
10:18where financial resources are not
10:20unlimited, where you are dealing with
10:22constraints. And I think that is also
10:27new for us as a port authority, but
10:29also for the port as a whole.
10:32Okay, very clear. I am very curious
10:35about your business model, because a
10:37port, I have no idea what the business
10:39model is. Tell me, what is the business
10:42model, actually?
10:44Yes, very good question, because I
10:46think few people actually know what
10:49Port of Antwerp-Bruges, the beautiful
10:51Havenhuis you see, actually does. Mo
10:54um, our business model consists of a
10:56number of pillars. Revenue, which is
11:00over a billion, slightly more than a
11:02billion,
11:03consists of 40%concession income. So
11:07most of the land in the port area of
11:09Antwerp and Zeebrugge is owned by the
11:11port authority. So we collect rental
11:14income for that. So that is about 40%.
11:17And how long do those concessions last?
11:19That is 30, 40 years. So that is very
11:22for your cash flow planning then.
11:24Absolutely. So that is a secure income,
11:26but it also has a downside, right? So
11:28that income, is that then
11:29it only rises with inflation.
11:31Okay.
11:31Um, so it is constant. That has its
11:34advantages when times are tough. But at
11:37the moment, and we are seeing that now,
11:39on the cost side inflation hits much
11:41harder, right? As everyone knows in
11:44Belgium, labor costs rise more than
11:46inflation. And that is still always
11:48two-thirds of our costs. But our
11:50investments and construction costs are
11:52rising too. Oh, anyone who has built or
11:54renovated in the past few years will
11:56know those costs have risen
11:57significantly.
11:58Then there is that part. Yes, that
12:00remains constant. You also have little
12:02influence over it. The space in the
12:04port is just what it is. 40%. Um,
12:07another 40%is what we call port dues.
12:12So every ship that enters, depending on
12:14the type of ship and the type of cargo,
12:16pays the port authority.
12:19And is that per movement or just
12:20arrival and departure, or how should I
12:22see it?
12:23Yes, arrival and departure, but there
12:25is more detail to it, but generally
12:27speaking. Okay. Um, the remaining 20%is
12:31largely what we call towing operations.
12:35So every ship that comes in must be
12:37towed. Um, and then a small remainder
12:40that comes from our subsidiaries. So we
12:43have a number of international
12:45activities. We also have a company that
12:48manages and operates pipelines. We also
12:51have a company that makes software used
12:53by customers in the port.
12:55Yes. That is on the revenue side, on
12:57the cost side, right? Our model, as I
12:59just said, two-thirds of our costs
13:01consist of personnel.
13:02Yes,
13:04other OPEX costs are studies we do in
13:06preparation for many projects, and yes,
13:09some marketing we do. I think we are
13:13quite well known, but that also comes
13:15with a cost.
13:16IT is also not to be underestimated.
13:19Cybersecurity also comes with a cost.
13:24But the biggest expenditure we have is
13:26our CAPEX, our investments, and those
13:28have risen very sharply. Um, just to
13:33give you the scale, in the past 12
13:35years we have spent roughly 1.5 billion
13:37on investments. 3 billion in revenue is
13:41a lot.
13:41That is a lot. We have been able to
13:43fund that with our own cash flow. In
13:47the coming 12 years, we expect to spend
13:50more than 5 billion. So a tripling.
13:53Yes, that is a lot.
13:55Yes, that is quite a lot. Um, so if we
13:57talk now about, yes, annual Capex of,
14:00uh, around 300 million, but that will
14:03increase over the coming years, 400
14:06million, 500 million, to then decrease
14:08again. But that is actually our largest
14:11cash expenditure. Clear. Now, it is a
14:15government-owned company, but it is a
14:17public limited company with, of course,
14:19shareholders. Who are the shareholders
14:21of the Port of Antwerp to begin with?
14:23Yes, so the Port of Antwerp-Bruges.
14:26Nicely eaten. Uh, 80%is the City of
14:29Antwerp, 20%is the City of Bruges. Okay
14:33.
14:33If you look at our board of directors,
14:35it consists of representatives from
14:37both cities, but is also supplemented
14:39by four independent directors.
14:41Okay. Now, in terms of dynamics, I
14:43think it is very different. Reporting
14:46to a board of directors, um, for a
14:51private company. What is it actually
14:54like to be in that dynamic where, of
14:56course, a lot of public interests are
14:58attached to it? How is it for you to
15:01actually maneuver between that as a CFO
15:04?
15:05That is indeed different. Yes, then
15:08back to where I once was, it is
15:10somewhat similar. Also did not have any
15:14real shareholders. So I’m not going
15:17to say government, but it was managed
15:18in a different way than a classic
15:20company. Um, that is therefore
15:22different, isn't it? I remember my
15:24introductory meeting with our chair of
15:26the audit and risk committee, Koen
15:28Kennis, from the City of Antwerp.
15:31He said afterwards, "You will have to
15:33get used to the fact that not every
15:35decision here is made rationally."
15:37Which as a CFO is still
15:39a bit uncomfortable, yes, feels
15:41uncomfortable. But, um, actually just
15:43yesterday I was having lunch with a
15:45colleague who phrased it a little
15:47differently, because we were talking
15:48about it, and he said that "rational"
15:50is not the right term. It is about
15:52logic. It is a different logic that is
15:54followed, right? We are speaking
15:56And why is that? Because other
15:58interests are at play?
15:59Yes, you have on one hand speaking in
16:01terms of legislative terms. So you have
16:03today a City of Antwerp, a City of
16:05Bruges where a number of parties are
16:07represented. So that representation is
16:09also reflected in our board of
16:11directors. Those are also certain
16:13emphases that are placed. But that can
16:15change, you know. That can, if there is
16:18a different legislative term where
16:19others come to power, there will also
16:21be other representatives on our board
16:23of directors, and possible emphases,
16:25other decisions will be made. Now, what
16:29you also notice is that, yes, some
16:31party interests are also at play. That
16:35the relationship with Flanders plays a
16:37role, sure, but I don't notice that
16:39it's truly a hindrance to how we
16:41operate as a company, you know. I think
16:46that both our board of directors and
16:48Flanders recognize the importance of
16:49the investments we make. Um, what I do
16:55notice is that, since I've been at the
16:57helm of finance, we perhaps have to
16:59make a bit more effort to highlight the
17:01financial aspect. But I think that's
17:07mainly because finance never really had
17:09a seat at the table, because there was
17:10always sufficient funding. We never had
17:14to take out any external financing. We
17:16were able to fund everything from our
17:17own cash flow. Um, and that was
17:21possible as long as our, well, as I
17:23just said, historically we were at
17:25around 100 million per year in Capex,
17:27and that was enough to maintain a
17:29constant cash balance, but that is now
17:32decreasing. So yes, you have different
17:34dynamics.
17:35Yes, but 300 million, that's a factor
17:37of 3. So that is obviously a very large
17:40bite out of your
17:41cash flow, right. Suddenly, choices
17:44have to be made there. And that is
17:46something where
17:47well, the Port, our shareholders, but
17:49also our customers aren't used to that,
17:52right. That we now have to say we can
17:54no longer do everything. We are going
17:56to have to make choices.
17:57Have to make choices.
17:58Nadien, thank you very much. We're
18:00going to take a short break in a moment
18:02, but when we return, I'm very curious
18:05about how the macroeconomic context
18:06actually influences your CFO agenda. We
18:09will continue shortly with my
18:11conversation with Nadien Aard, CFO of
18:13Port of Antwerp-Bruges. I am so proud
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18:53Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back.
18:55Today in the Z podcast, our guest is
18:57Nadien Aard, CFO of Port of
18:59Antwerp-Bruges. Nadien, before the
19:01break, we were talking about the
19:03shareholders and the whole dynamic. But
19:06I want to pivot with you toward the new
19:08economic context, obviously, in which
19:10the Port of Antwerp finds itself. How
19:13does this actually influence a CFO
19:15agenda?
19:16Yes, um, politically speaking, I mean,
19:19macro-politically speaking, for example
19:22, the closing of the Strait of Hormuz.
19:26Actually, at Porto Ventur Brouge, we
19:28haven't really had that much of an
19:30impact from that, or had much to do
19:32with it. I think it has also appeared
19:37in the media that a number of our
19:38clients have even seen increases. What
19:43we are more affected by, or what I
19:45would call having more of an impact,
19:47are a number of other aspects. If
19:50something really goes wrong in the port
19:52, that could be an oil spill that
19:54happened a while ago, for instance,
19:56which effectively closes the port.
19:59Strikes that can happen. Yes, those are
20:02things that have a direct impact on our
20:04business.
20:05Yes. Where we also notice that impact
20:09is Flanders having a harder time. We
20:12read about it every day. I read it in
20:15the paper this morning too; we have to
20:17find money. Flanders is also looking
20:19for money.
20:20Not just Flanders. The whole country is
20:21looking for money.
20:22Yes. Yes, a portion of the investments
20:26is funded by Flanders.
20:29In the past, decisions have been made
20:31that have led to Flanders contributing
20:33a bit less. So that impacts our
20:35financial figures. Even though we don't
20:38always have any influence on that
20:40ourselves. Also environmental aspects
20:42and issues. PFAS is a well-known aspect
20:45. That also has an impact on our costs.
20:48Investments that are more expensive.
20:51And as I mentioned before the break,
20:53construction costs that are just
20:55becoming more expensive, rising more
20:57than inflation, have a direct impact on
20:59our figures, on our cash generation.
21:01Yes.
21:02Yes. Okay. Now, when you look at your
21:06business, what do you look at? What are
21:11the KPIs you use to lead this company,
21:13which is particularly important for a
21:15country like Belgium? What are they? I
21:20don't think it's very different from
21:22other companies. Given the high
21:26investments we make, the return on our
21:28major investments is actually very
21:30important. And that might be slightly
21:36different than in traditional
21:37commercial companies, in the sense that
21:39we also make investments that generate
21:41little or no return for us as a company
21:43, but which do have a social return. Be
21:48it for Flanders or for safety, for
21:50example, maintaining or constructing
21:52bike paths. No extra ships will sail in
21:56because of that, but it is important.
22:01What we do notice is, especially now in
22:03the context where we also have to
22:05secure financing, is that the return we
22:07get on certain investments we make with
22:09clients is becoming more important. And
22:13we notice now in conversations with
22:15clients, yes, that they haven't always
22:17been used to that, right. As I said
22:20earlier, we have been used to being
22:22able to make all investments. I
22:24sometimes compare it to the fact that
22:26not only our own employees, but also
22:28our clients, our shareholders, or more
22:30broadly think there's a donkey in the
22:32attic. You pull its tail and the money
22:35just falls out. Yes, the donkey is
22:38almost empty and we now have to go to
22:40the bank. Hm.
22:47Yes. What long-term choices do you have
22:50to make as CFO?
22:51That is
22:52to be able to realize all those future
22:54plans.
22:56That is a good mix of investments. That
22:59is, I think it's important and that we
23:01also absolutely strive to remain
23:03independent, right. Before the summer
23:06period, a number of articles appeared
23:07in the media that there would be an
23:09entry. I think we really strive to
23:13remain independent. Which means that we
23:15, yes, have to have our financial
23:17affairs in good order. And that is not
23:20just about our own financial
23:22housekeeping or our own company. So
23:26looking at our own cost structure, that
23:28we have, as our CEO says, our ducks in
23:31a row. But also the right mix of
23:36investments, a good spread of
23:38investments so that with the financing
23:40we are now taking on, we can also
23:42ensure that we remain an independent
23:44company.
23:47We will come back in part two of our
23:49conversation extensively to how you
23:50actually raised that, because it is
23:52quite a large amount. So I am very
23:54curious about that. I might want to
23:57zoom in on finance, your team. What
24:00does your team actually look like to
24:02lead this company? What does that look
24:04like?
24:06Broadly speaking, it doesn't look very
24:08different from a traditional finance
24:10department.
24:12There have been some changes, as I
24:14mentioned earlier, finance didn't
24:16really have a seat at the table in the
24:18past. H
24:19which was absolutely not easy, also for
24:22my predecessor or predecessors. So, in
24:25the past we didn't really have finance
24:27business partners. It was controlling
24:29that you had. You had accounting. So we
24:32have now introduced that, we call them
24:34finance managers. I also call them mini
24:36CFOs who really support and challenge
24:39the business. Which also means
24:41management reporting is now drawn up
24:42monthly. That is also new. What might
24:46be different from traditional finance
24:48departments is that we have a very
24:50large procurement department. That is
24:53more than 20 employees,
24:55but that is linked to the fact that we
24:57are bound by public procurement laws.
25:00So, it is not a traditional procurement
25:02department. It is more focused on
25:05following the procedures. So, how we
25:08are structured is, yes, finance
25:10managers, controlling. Those are
25:13separate teams. Procurement also falls
25:16under that. So, a finance manager has
25:18controllers reporting to them, and
25:20procurement reporting to them. In
25:22addition, the traditional general
25:24accounting.
25:24Uh-huh.
25:26We are also setting up a cell now,
25:28financing, with the loans we are taking
25:30on and will take on in the future. And
25:34since January, EPMO, so project
25:36management, also falls under finance.
25:39Okay, very clear. So you had to adjust
25:44a number of things in the team to
25:45secure that seat at the table.
25:48That's right, that's right. And that is
25:50, yes, also a cultural shift in the
25:52company. We work
25:54How big was the shock for the team?
25:57Because, yes, you come in and you try
25:59to change a number of things.
26:01To change. Yes. All that change
26:03management, how did that go?
26:08I think for the team it was okay,
26:10except for the way people are used to
26:12implementing changes bottom-up within
26:13the company, with a lot of involvement
26:15from team members.
26:20That is positive. The change within
26:26finance I did a bit more top-down, but
26:28that was more from the context that a
26:30lot of things had to change and I
26:31already had a picture in my mind of
26:33what that team should ideally look like
26:35.
26:39So I think the biggest changes were
26:41primarily for the whole company. People
26:43are not used to working with budgets.
26:45They used to work with plans. So that
26:50a plan is more that it was mainly
26:51focused on costs—what they think they
26:53will spend next year. Whereas with a
26:56budget, we start from the premise: we
26:59want to reach a target EBITDA. We have
27:01a target Capex, and within that target,
27:03sub-targets must be set, and with those
27:06targets, we go to the business. Okay,
27:08that is the maximum that can be spent.
27:11What are the priorities you set?
27:12Whereas before, there was no maximum;
27:14people just looked at what they could
27:16spend. Okay,
27:17so that is indeed a major cultural
27:18shift.
27:18Different, that is clear.
27:20Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Nadien, I
27:23am extremely grateful to have had this
27:25conversation with you, and also very
27:27happy that we were able to gain some
27:29insight. I always end with the same
27:31question. What other passions do you
27:33have? Well, I’ll refer back to the
27:35very first question you asked. What is
27:37your story? Because those things come
27:39back in that. Doing what you love to do
27:42. I think we are true bon vivants.
27:46So that includes a number of passions,
27:49like any good Belgian, gastronomy. It
27:52helps that my partner also works in
27:54that sector.
27:56That is very well selected. He visits a
27:59great many restaurants. So we enjoy
28:02going out to restaurants with friends
28:04or just the two of us. We also have a
28:08very extensive and very nice group of
28:10friends. So surrounding ourselves with
28:12the right people is certainly the case
28:14as well. We also really love skiing, or
28:18ski holidays, I should say, with all
28:20the trimmings. The fun part of ski
28:24holidays. Isola is a village where I
28:27really love to spend time.
28:30Is that your go-to place?
28:32I go there twice a year. Yes. Yes. And
28:36finally, and that is actually perhaps
28:37one of my biggest passions. I am truly
28:40passionate about Tomorrowland. Um.
28:45So I make sure that we, with friends,
28:47try to score tickets every year to
28:49attend Tomorrowland, including camping
28:51and all the trimmings.
28:54Yes, fantastic. Thank you for the
28:56conversation. It was a very good
28:57conversation. Thank you. Absolutely.
28:59Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, thank
29:01you for watching this episode of the
29:03CFO podcast. Next week, we will again
29:05welcome a sharp CFO to our studios to
29:08inform, trigger, and who knows, inspire
29:10you. See you next week.
29:16Next week on the CFO playbook. Nadien
29:19Aarts, CFO of Port of Antwerp-Bruges.

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