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Oral History of Chemdog - Flower Expo SESHES - MA 2025 — Transcript

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0:00Hello everyone.
0:02Is anyone listening?
0:05Is anyone home?
0:08This is officially the slow trickling
0:11start of the keynote discussion
0:14featuring the oral history of Chem Dog.
0:16Please take your seat.
0:20Okay. So for anybody listening or
0:25watching this recording and getting the
0:28valuable benefit of replay uh amongst
0:31the crowd of the 2025 Flower Expo here
0:35in Northampton, Massachusetts,
0:38we have uh an abundance of history, an
0:41abundance of Massachusetts Cannabis
0:43Industry pride uh floating through the
0:46entire grounds uh today. And with all
0:48the brands in attendance, it's always
0:52interesting to know that we are in a
0:53market that is unlike many others. And
0:57with that in mind,
0:59this panel and this discussion will be
1:01focusing on the oral history of Chem
1:05Dog. Now, show hands. Uh I don't know if
1:08the cameras can see it. Uh how many
1:09people know and love Chem? All the hands
1:11went up in the room. All right, that's
1:12great. If the cameras didn't catch that
1:14full packed room, all hands.
1:17Chem Dog is not just a strain. People
1:20don't really understand this because
1:21Chem Dog, the strain itself, has been
1:24part of American cannabis pop culture
1:26for the better part of three decades.
1:29Um, shake your finger at a '9s cannabis
1:32smoker and they're likely to have a
1:34story of the first time they tried Chem
1:35Dog. Whether they knew to say this was
1:38Chem Dog or in the '9s it was you had
1:41[ __ ] weed and you had great weed. Great
1:43weed tend to be coming from the man to
1:46my left. um the actual progeniator and
1:49namesake of Chem Dog, Greg Chem Dog
1:52Krisnowski.
1:54Thanks, Dan.
1:56Uh I'll be kind of steering this
1:58conversation over the next 30 minutes or
2:00so to just get into the oral history of
2:02Chem Dog. Uh the journey from I uh from
2:06the Legacy Market to legal and how a
2:09humble strain found in Deer Peak Deer
2:12Creek, Indiana at at the 1991 summer
2:16tour of the Grateful Dead uh gave way to
2:19one of the most storied rises in
2:22American cannabis genetics history.
2:25Um, so to kind of fade in and get you
2:28ready for what this story is, it's it's
2:32important to kind of get your head back
2:34to where cannabis culture was right
2:36around 1990 1991.
2:39Um, given that cannabis is the great age
2:42unifier. There's people in this crowd
2:44from every demographic that was probably
2:46part of it. But to put your head back
2:49there, you have to realize that the
2:52average availability of dynamic high-end
2:56cannabis that had a very unique gassy
3:01petrol,
3:02overripe lemons picked on a summer
3:04Italian day, but then thrown under the
3:06back of an LA school bus. In all the
3:08great ways that that could be mentioned,
3:10you had this funky, gassy, chemically
3:14absolute powerhouse of a strain that
3:16blew the socks off everybody that tried
3:17it in the early 90s. most particularly a
3:21young wideeyed bushytailed Greg
3:24Krnowski. Teenage Greg out in Deer Peak
3:28Deer Creek, Indiana on one of his first
3:30Grateful Dead tours going out for the
3:33whole summer getting into the glass
3:35culture selling his glass and somewhere
3:37along the way at the start of that tour
3:39something incredible happened. Ken, why
3:41don't you fade in from there? We are in
3:43the summer of 1991. You're on the lot in
3:46Deer Creek, Indiana to see the dead and
3:48a car houses two people. Who are those
3:51two people? Uh that's when I met Jo and
3:53Peabud 1991. Um they were selling Bud in
3:58the parking lot and I went up to them
3:59and I was like, "Love to try some of
4:01your Bud." And it was when I got a bag
4:02of it. It was $125 for a quarter ounce.
4:06And back then that was a lot of money.
4:08And I when I looked at I was like, "Wow,
4:10this is some of the best pot I've ever
4:11seen in my I was only 18, but it was
4:13some of the best pot I ever seen in my
4:15life at that point. So, we hung out for
4:16a few minutes, exchanged phone numbers
4:18with them. Um, back then we didn't have
4:20cells, so we wrote it on a piece of
4:22paper and that was it. Went off on my
4:25way. And I realized at that point I had
4:27some of the best pot I ever seen in my
4:28life and smoked. So, you've told the
4:31story a bunch of times, and I love
4:33capturing the moment, which was after
4:35you had this bag of of weed that you got
4:37from Peabud and Joe B. Um, I think you
4:40even said you had some kind of business
4:42card that wasn't even their business
4:44card. It was just a name scribbled on
4:45it. We just had an index card, regular
4:473x5 index card. We just scribbled our
4:48names and wrote our phone numbers. And
4:50back then, you don't even know if
4:52someone's given you a real phone number
4:53or not, you know. So, thankfully, people
4:55had gave me his real phone number. And
4:57so, with that one bag you got um at the
5:00summer of 91 um kind of described the
5:04crowd after clearly understanding
5:05something special was about this weed,
5:07you savored it, didn't you? Yeah, I
5:09savored the whole bag for the whole
5:10tour. Like I smoked a little bit each
5:12show and by the end of the last show I
5:14had one bowl left and I smoked it up and
5:16that was it. So when I got home I was
5:17like I got to reach out to these guys
5:19and try to get some more of this pot.
5:21And so at this point you still didn't
5:23really understand the what this strain
5:25was. You just knew it was really good.
5:27They when I got it, Peabud and Joby had
5:30told me that some people call it
5:31Chemweed and some people call it dog bud
5:33because it got you so high you rolled
5:34around on the ground like a dog. So
5:37that's the true story on that. So as you
5:40took that single bag uh on that summer
5:4291 tour, like kind of describe the faces
5:46and the reactions and the anecdotes you
5:47have of anybody that got their hands
5:49when you when you shared a bowl of that
5:51special weed cuz you obviously had tons
5:52of other flour with you. I didn't share
5:54any of that wheat just with the person I
5:56was with and that was it. Um so let's
5:59fast forward. So you go on the tour
6:01through the 91 tour. You've got this one
6:03bag. How much did you buy in that first
6:05bag? It was only a core. It was like I
6:06think it was a quarter ounce only. A
6:07quarter of that. So you made that you
6:09made a quarter stretch the tour. Yeah.
6:11Bowl a show. Bowl a show. And I mean how
6:14many shows was that average do you
6:15think? 16 or something. So you really
6:17rationed that out. So now one of the the
6:20great legends about the Chem Dog strain
6:22is there's endless debates. Endless
6:24debates about how to spell Chem Dog.
6:27Endless debates of who created it, what
6:29its profiles are. There's a million
6:32different stories about it. But the good
6:33news is is all stories end here today
6:36because the originator of the story is
6:38sitting on the stage. And because of
6:39that, one of the the the delights of
6:43talking to cannabis people when it comes
6:44to talking about the history of Chem Dog
6:46is that a lot of people think there's
6:48some exotic origin to this. But this was
6:50a bag seed, wasn't it? Bag seed. Yeah.
6:52There was Yep. And when I reached back
6:54out to them in August, uh they sent me
6:57back an ounce. I actually could get an
6:59ounce from them. There was 500 bucks an
7:00ounce. And when I got the ounce, there
7:02was 13 seats in it. 13 seeds. The 13
7:04magic. And actually, to be honest, I
7:06started the strain about a mile from
7:08here. It was started on Market Street,
7:10Northampton, right by Joe's Pizza. So,
7:12it's really close to here where it
7:13originated from. I mean, so that's
7:16something I like to always hammer home
7:17when people are in Massachusetts and
7:19checking out Smash Its Cannabis. you
7:21know, it's there is a real hometown
7:23pride of the fact that nowhere else in
7:25the country does this does this story
7:28exist or that wonderful noise. Um, and
7:32that's why it's good that we can be here
7:34and celebrate this part of cannabis
7:36culture cuz it is hometown pride. Um,
7:39when I've had uh conversations with
7:41people that may or may not know cannabis
7:43history or understand the culture, you
7:45know, I often say like, imagine
7:46basketball's been illegal for 100 years,
7:48and now that it's legal, Michael Jordan
7:50just happens to be the hometown coach.
7:52Um, and when people get to come in and
7:55sample and see that Chem Dog genetics
7:58are alive and well, they're being
8:00handled by the ultimate caretaker and a
8:02very dedicated crew. Um, something
8:04really magical has been happening in the
8:05mass market and I know you're very proud
8:07of that and the whole team is. But let's
8:10get into a little bit about the
8:11cultivation of the legend of this
8:13strain. So, talk a little bit about
8:16those 13 seeds. When you popped those
8:18first ones and that first harvest of the
8:21now infamous and wildly legendary Chem91
8:25strain, 1991, I started four of the
8:27original 13 seeds. And that came the
8:29Chem91, which is also Chem Dog, Chem91.
8:32It's the same thing. And then there was
8:34a couple Chem B and Chem C. And then
8:36there was Chem Sister I started. I lost
8:38that over the years and it kind of came
8:40back, but and then grew those out for a
8:43while. Then in 2000, I pulled back out
8:45my seeds and I started the Chem D. So
8:47the Chem D was started in 2000. That's
8:49pretty much my favorite one right now.
8:52Yeah. And kind of the Chem D is the kind
8:54of strain that if you smoke all day and
8:57then you smoke Chem D, you're going to
8:58get stoned at the end of the day. Not
9:00like a lot of this. Yeah. I've sent my
9:03wife, she's actually gone to the
9:04hospitals cuz she turned green on it.
9:06I've sent a lot. And it's funny because
9:08I'm talking a lot about this stuff right
9:09now about getting weed sent in the mail
9:11and [ __ ] And my mom and my son are in
9:12the audience. So, it's a little weird,
9:14but you know, it's all good. It is. Get
9:16your son to stand up and show off the
9:18Chem Dog gear. This is official Chem Dog
9:20gear made by Chem Dog's wife. Fantastic
9:22tie. You guys want any tie dyes? We make
9:24them. Me and my wife, reach out. We'll
9:25get you one, sell you one, no problem.
9:27Chem dog or they're also at the can of
9:28stores. Anyway, we can get into that
9:30after. Um, so fantastic. So, we've gone
9:32into the 13 seeds. You dropped those
9:35first lines. Um, and then I met up with
9:37actually Joby B. I haven't talked to
9:39Joby B and Peabud in years. What year
9:40was this? This is 2006. We ended up
9:42being on the online forums, a place
9:44called Overgrow. And I ended up
9:46rekindling our relationship and actually
9:49sent them the last four seeds, not the
9:51last four, four of my last seeds, and
9:54they started the Chem 4 in 2006. So, out
9:57of that, they started the Chem4. And the
9:59last two seeds I had when I got raided
10:01in 2011, the cops took them. So, that's
10:04who has the last couple seeds. We'll get
10:05into the raid and the the the long arm
10:07of the law coming in uh in a moment. But
10:10continuing on with like the legend of
10:12Chem Dog, right? I mean, I I have been
10:14at places uh in other countries and
10:17other cities and Chem Dog's one of those
10:19unifying factors within cannabis. If you
10:21know it, you truly know it. And if you
10:23know it by smell, it is wildly
10:26identifiable. Like all all the variants
10:28of chem are connected by this one piece
10:31of genetics. It seems like that just
10:33makes it the loudest. It makes it the
10:36stinkiest, the most intense. Um I know,
10:39you know, we've talked many times with
10:40uh different media over the years. Danny
10:42Denko for years was, you know, High
10:44Times judge and so on and so forth. Um
10:46he fa loves telling the story of in the
10:48'9s and in the early 2000s at High Times
10:51headquarters in New York City, there was
10:53exactly one strain forbidden to be
10:56brought into the High Times offices in
10:58New York City and it was Chem Dog.
11:00Because the minute you even had a sealed
11:02pack in a backpack, their elevator went
11:04up past many legal floors. And it was
11:07the one that other businesses would be
11:08like, "Guys, we know your high times,
11:10but can you just tone it down?" Like,
11:12that's kind of over overbearing.
11:13Thinking people are just walking in with
11:15open packs. It was because Chem Dog
11:17would just fumigate the offices in a way
11:19that other strains wouldn't. So, um, is
11:22there a single feature of the original
11:24Chem91,
11:26of the cut, of the finished product, of
11:29it coming up? Um, is there a feature of
11:31it, smell, look, effect, that is the
11:34thing that you zero in on all the time?
11:36The high from it. It gets you very high
11:38no matter what. You know, it's like
11:40they've always gotten very they've
11:41always gotten very high THC and they're
11:43very high, but THC don't matter anyway.
11:45We all know that. Yeah. Let's talk about
11:46that for a second. This is a great room
11:47to talk about THC. Um, obviously a lot
11:50of opinions on testing, a lot of a lot
11:53of testings within testing. Um, but
11:56ultimately what's your full take on the
11:59battle over THC percentages and just THC
12:02being an indicator of quality? How does
12:05that jive with what you did over the
12:07years when there was no THC testing? No,
12:10there wasn't. And testing is a [ __ ]
12:11joke in Massachusetts, not the labs,
12:13just the testing whole thing. You could
12:15have a 100 plants in a room and you can
12:17test 25 of them and you're going to get
12:1925 different results. So to me, that's
12:22not really like what did we do 20 years
12:24ago? We had no COAs with our flour, you
12:27know, we just you smoked it. And there's
12:29some flowers that are 16 17% and the
12:32tarpen in them, they just affect the
12:34entourage whole entourage effect is way
12:36different and will get you just as high
12:38as something that's 30%. And most of the
12:40time your body can only absorb 25% THC.
12:42So the THC, the tack chasers out there
12:45just chasing circles around themselves
12:47pretty much.
12:49Let's talk for a second those those
12:50first grows you did back in the 90s um
12:53and the early 2000s. Um I've seen slips
12:56of yours of those first bags you bought
12:57and the first dirt, but along the way, I
13:00mean, you still had to lean on other
13:04guidance, other people kind of helping
13:06you along the way as you were growing.
13:07Kind of take us through your actual
13:09cultivation journey, where it started,
13:11how you kind of developed some of your
13:13skills, and some of the things you still
13:14employ to this day. Um, yeah. So, I was
13:1616 when I started growing pot. My mom
13:18probably doesn't even know this story,
13:20but my brother moved out of his house
13:22and I went to his house and I took over
13:23his closet when I was 16. And I said,
13:26"I'm going to grow pot in your closet
13:27and uh started growing then." And I
13:30didn't have any good strengths. I just
13:31had bag seed of whatever it was of just
13:33whatever flower you got locally. Uh, so
13:36I started growing then went in his
13:38closet and then I started going over
13:39there. I noticed that Buzz would be
13:41missing off the plants. So I realized
13:43that all the roommates were just
13:44stealing the pot off the plants. So I
13:46was like, "This is dumb." So finally
13:48when I turned 18, I moved out of my own
13:50house just so I could grow weed. No
13:52problems with my parents. I just wanted
13:53to grow weed and I couldn't do it at
13:54their house respectfully. So I went on
13:57my own and been growing since then and
13:59I'm 52 now. So
14:02um what about like scaling, right? So
14:04you started within a closet with a
14:06couple things. How fast did you get up
14:08to a place where you were creating a
14:09little bit of volume for yourself? I
14:11never went too crazy. Yeah, I would go a
14:12couple bedrooms when I eventually when
14:14you have hot bigger houses, but never
14:16went crazy like that, you know. I always
14:17grew for myself and always for a little
14:19extra. Did you have any preferences for
14:21lights or tactics or anything that made
14:24a lot of the establishment of the Chem
14:25Dog? Yeah, a lot of my stuff is all
14:27self-learned like books, Ed Rosenthal
14:29books, just books and like there was no
14:31YouTube and [ __ ] back then. You had to
14:33use your brain. You couldn't just pick
14:34up your phone and have it done, you
14:36know, have it catered to you on your
14:37phone. and you had to actually look and
14:39do research and figure [ __ ] out, you
14:41know. So, I'm pretty much selftaught for
14:43the most part. I don't really think
14:44anybody's ever have really taught me
14:46really, you know. I've learned a lot
14:47now. I still learn a lot from people,
14:50you know, but I don't I'm pretty much
14:51selftaught. How often do you get
14:53unsolicited grow tips from uh wouldbe
14:56master growers? All the time. I just
14:58take it, you know, take crit take just
15:00take it and if it's, you know, sometimes
15:02it's actually really good stuff. You
15:03know, I've learned a few things in the
15:05last year, you know, for sure from
15:07different people, different things. Some
15:08stuff is just out the door, but just go
15:10with it. Perfect. Um, let's get a little
15:13bit into like the rise of the the uh
15:16iconic status of the strain in popular
15:18culture. So, now we're at a place where
15:20it's been it's the the early mid '90s.
15:23You've been growing this stuff for a
15:24little while now. You got a nice chem
15:26like you sparking up there. Um, and now
15:29it's at a place where this this weed
15:30really started to get out there. Uh, and
15:33beyond the people that had a direct
15:35access point to you, obviously, as
15:37anybody knows how the game goes,
15:38somebody else gets their hand on it and
15:40then they can actually push it out a
15:41little bit. So, when did you first get a
15:44sense of this weed was actually going
15:47somewhere that it was actually becoming
15:49something a little bigger than you? And
15:50what were some of those indicators?
15:52Probably not till like 2000. What
15:55happened? just I started seeing it out
15:57there more and more, you know, in the
15:59out there more and more, you know, it
16:00just was out there more than I thought.
16:02I would see it pop up and Danny Denko
16:04was doing more interviews and stuff with
16:06the with stuff that we were doing. So,
16:09it was getting out there more, but it
16:10was not until like 2000 I realized. I
16:12knew, especially when I got it back in
16:13'91. But, did I know that I'd be sitting
16:15up here 33 years later in front of my
16:18mom, my wife, and my son, my, you know,
16:21my Megan, Eric, and you talking about
16:23this? No. It's pretty wild. Um, you
16:26know, over the years, I know I've talked
16:28to people that if you just mention
16:30mention Chem Dog, the strain, they kind
16:32of their eyes light up or they're like,
16:34"Oh, yeah, that's that great stuff I had
16:35back in the day." But, I mean, there's
16:37some other great anecdotes knowing that
16:39you don't have to name names if you
16:40don't want to. But, I mean, there's been
16:42musicians, you know, pop culture icons,
16:45people that have really latched on to
16:46the strain and enjoyed it. I mean, there
16:48was even a you have a story from the
16:50NFL, right? Wasn't there a player that
16:52used to really like Chem because of its
16:54Yeah. Jeremy Shocki actually when they
16:56won the Super Bowl that year, the Gi New
16:57York Giants, most of the offensive line
16:59was smoking at Chem. So, I was selling
17:01it directly and they only have to take a
17:02test in the beginning of the year. So,
17:04after that, their open game and a lot of
17:06the smoke, a lot of the NFL guys smoke
17:07during the whole season. So,
17:11um let's talk a bit about um the the
17:13Chem Dog name. So, we're at a place in
17:14the sort of oral history of the lifespan
17:18of this cultivator and the strain itself
17:22where um the name Chem Dog, right, now
17:25started to become
17:28synonymous with quality. But that led to
17:31imposters that led to new spellings that
17:34led to a Chem Dog that wasn't really
17:36Chem Dog. The the Teeu version of Chem
17:38Dogs, every variant that you can think
17:40of. So talk a little bit about when um
17:43Chem Dog became its own brand and then
17:46you started to see it in the wild that
17:47was clearly not real Chem Dog and if
17:49that even still persists today. Oh he
17:51heck yeah. Actually we have secret
17:53shoppers that go around to all these
17:54dispensaries.
17:56And I would say 98% of the chem that you
18:00see in those stores are not chem. It's
18:02fake. We've tried it. We smoked it. It's
18:03[ __ ] So either their bud tenders
18:06are getting lied to by the the people
18:08that are selling it to them or what.
18:09They're not they don't have real chem in
18:11their stores actually. And if you want
18:13to find real chem, you come to
18:14Canipervisions. You know, we offer all
18:17all of our chems. We offer even some of
18:19our genetics through there that you can
18:21find on the, you know, when we do our
18:22clone drops. But yeah, 98% of the stores
18:25out there don't have real chem. If you
18:26do, bring it to me and I'll let you
18:27know. But we've already done that with
18:29our secret shoppers and it you don't.
18:31So, we'll leave it at that. Okay. Sorry
18:35if that was fierce, but you know, honest
18:37and direct, just like smoking a bowl of
18:39Chem. Um, so let's get back into uh
18:42fading back into the history. So now
18:44we're through the 2000s a bit. Uh, Chem
18:464, Chem D is out. Everything's circling
18:49around. Chem is starting to like really
18:51get under people's noses and pallets,
18:53and now people are looking and searching
18:54for the strain, looking for the real
18:56deal. Some people out west are starting
18:58to find Chem Dog, but it's spelled
19:00unusually. What is the What is the last
19:02word on Chem Dog as D O G versus Chem
19:06Dog as D A WG? Why is there I don't know
19:08where the D AWG came from. But when I
19:10labeled the plant back in '91, I labeled
19:12DOG. Chem dog. And I combined the name
19:15Chemweed and Dob Bud. That's how I got
19:17Chem Dog. That's how I came up with
19:18that. So, I labeled it DOG. It was never
19:21D- AWG. I don't know who ever started
19:23that or why they started that, but yeah.
19:26So, is it safe to say it's not real Chem
19:28Dog unless it's DOG? A lot of it's out
19:30there. It's so I just judged a sour chem
19:33competition recently and in the chem
19:36category there was so many grill glue
19:37force that people thought they're
19:39smoking chem. And in the chem 91
19:41category there was
19:44s a b bunch of sour diesels there wasn't
19:45even chems in it. It's like people So
19:47there's a lot of mislabeled cuts out
19:49there that people have. So that sour D
19:51is an interesting mention because I mean
19:54anybody knows some of the history of New
19:56York sourdough
19:58there's a lot of debate about chem's
20:00role in the genetics there as a strain.
20:03I mean from what I understand there is
20:04no New York sourd without chem. There
20:07isn't cuz the mom of the sour diesel is
20:09chem 91
20:10right there. Any any questions? I feel
20:12like that that's under contention
20:14sometimes but now everybody's agreeing.
20:15This is a packed house by the way for
20:17the cameras. Throw it out there. Any
20:18questions? Bring them on. Yeah, we'll do
20:20questions in a few minutes. All right,
20:21so let's touch real quick. So now we're
20:22through the journey. You're into the
20:24middle 2000s, getting to the end of the
20:262000s, loving life. You've got a family.
20:28You've got your legacy market operation
20:30going. People who know no, they know
20:32where to get it. They know how to
20:34understand the quality based on the
20:36flavor and tarpine and effect profile of
20:38Chemog. But now we get into the early
20:412010s and right around then you've got a
20:43nice little op going. You've got, you
20:45know, what what you're leading up to
20:46about 100 plants on your own or so. 99
20:4999 or so. Now you got 99 plants and a
20:51Fed ate one. Um, so, um, we get to 2011.
20:56Is that when the Take the crowd through
20:59real quick. If anybody's ever been part
21:01of a DEA raid. Sorry if this is going to
21:03be retreading old ground. Most likely
21:05the two the three in the front here.
21:06Actually, all three were in the mom,
21:09wife, and son out there. Yeah. No,
21:10nothing like a family affair to have the
21:12long arm of the law kick in your front
21:13door and start to rage your entire uh
21:16legacy cannabis operation. But take us
21:18through the day because that's an
21:19important day when this happens. This is
21:20great. Let's remind Let's bring it all
21:22back. Dan, um PTSD, here we go. So 2011,
21:27I get a knock at the door. My son, who
21:29is now 22, was eight, maybe whatever he
21:32was, nine, answers the door and says,
21:34"Dad, there's a bunch of Lego cops at
21:37the door." um to like, you know, so it
21:39was the DEA, the IRS, and the local and
21:42state police. And I looked at the
21:44warrant before I let him in. I let him
21:46in. I go, "Come on in." And at the same
21:48time, my poor mom, who happened to live
21:51at the bottom of my growhouse, cuz I had
21:53the top was the growhouse. Her house got
21:55raided at the same exact time as my
21:56house. So, there simultaneous raid. And
21:59of course, my wife is there with her
22:01nephew was sleeping over at the time.
22:02So, it was just a fun [ __ ] event. Um,
22:05and they basically said, you know,
22:06we're, you know, I had only 99 plants at
22:08the house. So, they only basically took
22:11the state took over the case and they
22:15got rid of the case and the feds took it
22:16over and still came at me with the 99
22:19plant intent to distribute. All those
22:21other things got dropped. Ended up with
22:22just a money laundering case and this so
22:24I wouldn't have to do any time cuz I had
22:26my son full-time at the time. So, they
22:28didn't want me to go to jail. And I
22:29basically had 3 years probation. They
22:31took uh $400,000 from me. basically my
22:34house, my cars, and all the money I had.
22:36And I did three years probate. They
22:38wanted me to do 5 years probation, but I
22:40was a good boy. I said, "Let's do
22:42three." And actually, after a year and a
22:44half, I got off after pissing in a cup
22:47for a year and a half clean, they let me
22:48go and took my money. So, it was all
22:50about the money. That's it. What I mean,
22:52and for somebody who's been operating in
22:54the market at the time like you had and
22:56for the actual impact your work had on
22:59genetics and on the culture at large, I
23:02mean, what was that? What was that
23:03lasting, you know, uh, emotional impact,
23:06financial impact? The idea of like,
23:07could you even keep doing this thing
23:09that you've been doing your whole life?
23:11Yeah, I kind of hung out real low after
23:13that for a while. I was just kind of
23:14freaked out and didn't do much, you
23:16know? I was on probation, so I was like,
23:18uh, but all the strains are backed up. I
23:20wasn't worried about any of that [ __ ]
23:22you know. So, so you gave your mothers
23:23to like trusted sources. People already
23:25had them. Like my friends, good friends.
23:26You always back up good strains. You
23:27don't want to ever not hoard a strain
23:29because you lose it, you're [ __ ] you
23:31know?
23:32Um, after the bust, did you ever
23:35consider
23:37just just for a second even just
23:39restarting it all? Like, [ __ ] it. I'm
23:40just going to keep going. No, I was
23:42afraid to go to prison.
23:46[ __ ] that. No, I already been growing. I
23:47was like I was already at 16. I was
23:49growing like doing crazy [ __ ] I went to
23:52I went to Amsterdam in '91 and my mom
23:56don't even know this, but I bought
23:57$2,000 worth of seeds and I smuggled
23:59them back when I was [ __ ] n 21 or
24:01whatever and that was during
24:02Thanksgiving and I'm, you know, I'm glad
24:04I did that [ __ ] because
24:07you know, I'm here now. So, exactly. So,
24:10that's all that matters, you know. I'm
24:11not And I have a, you know, beautiful
24:13wife, great mom, great son, great
24:15daughter, and I can't ask for much more,
24:18you know. So, that raid was in what,
24:192012? 2011 I was raided I was ratted on
24:22by a guy named Resz Dog and he had
24:24gotten in he'd gotten Gypsy Nirvana. A
24:26bunch of people got in trouble and I was
24:27like the trail end of it, you know, and
24:30it was Gypsy Nirvana. No, it was Resz
24:32Dog. Resdog. That's what I that's where
24:34we come to the conclusion. Got it. So
24:362011 cuz he was at the house. He'd
24:38gotten clones and you know there's some
24:40[ __ ] going on. So yeah. Um so there it
24:44is. 2011 the raid happens. the shutdown
24:48of the Chem factory, so to speak, when
24:50it's actually coming from Chem Dog
24:52himself. So, you've got a good decade
24:55between when that moment happened and
24:57the moment that led to getting you into
25:00the legal market, which we'll be getting
25:01into. in that 10-year time. Talk a
25:04little bit about even with you laying
25:06low and trying to keep a low profile and
25:09and the fallout of everything that
25:10happened, you must have still been
25:12getting people figuratively knocking on
25:14your door like, "Hey, are do you have
25:15anything coming back or no?" No, it was
25:17pretty I don't remember. I mean, I don't
25:19remember much. I just kind of remember
25:20being low-key and you know,
25:23um not smoking. I think you know really
25:26you cut down on smoking too for that
25:28whole time. I had to piss in a cup every
25:29month. You know, I had to take a test
25:31every month at the federal building. I
25:33mean, you must have had somebody in the
25:35scene that had some bag of viable urine
25:38or something to swindle out of. I wasn't
25:40messing around with any of that [ __ ]
25:42So, I wasn't going to prison, you know.
25:44I had my son, I had my now wife, which I
25:46wasn't going to, you know. Did you have
25:48any fears that you'd never cultivate
25:49again?
25:52No, I I didn't really think about that
25:54at that point. Like I said, I was in
25:55like a kind of like a stale small, you
25:58know, stage where I just kind of didn't
25:59do anything, you know, and I had to, you
26:01know, I had Anthony, so he was young, so
26:03I had to be a good dad and [ __ ] too.
26:05So, I I quit smoking for like 3 years, I
26:07think. 2 3 years. And it was rough.
26:09What?
26:11And I started blowing glass again. Yeah.
26:13I don't know if everybody understands
26:14this, but on top of Chem's uh
26:16cultivation history, he's an incredible
26:18glass blower. You've done wild. That's
26:20what happens. I started blowing glass in
26:221994. I learned from Bob Snodgrass and
26:25when I got I kind of stopped in 2000
26:27blowing glass and went kind of with the
26:28weed thing and in 2000 when I did get
26:31arrested my wife's right I ended up
26:33being like [ __ ] it I'm going to go back
26:35to blowing glass full time and start my
26:37you know that was 2013 12 I started
26:39blowing glass again and I'm still
26:41currently doing that but that's one
26:43thing that got me back into that and
26:44it's like riding a bike just get back on
26:46it you can do it you know I've said it
26:48before I'll say it again the oneie you
26:49you made for me is still the best oneie
26:51I've ever had It functions the best.
26:53Amazing glass. Check out chem chem
26:55glass. And it was cool back in the day
26:57when you had like go to the Grateful
26:58Dead shows in 19 like 9495. I would
27:01bring Chem flour and glass to sell. So
27:04you could buy my pipes and my glass. My
27:06glass and my flower at the show all at
27:09the same. Now at one point you were
27:11talking with like Mickey Hart. He was
27:12into either your glass. We helped him,
27:14you know, we helped him with his brand
27:15to launch his brand a little bit. And
27:16that was I mean that was another another
27:18celebrity brand down the tubes that just
27:20didn't futate to anything. Wow.
27:22Celebrity weed sometimes doesn't
27:23deliver. I know some of it delivers.
27:25There's a handful. Handful. I know. I
27:26know some of it delivers. There's a
27:27handful out there. There's a handful.
27:29Handful. Um. All right. So, 20. So, now
27:31that we've covered the raid, you know,
27:33we're at the point of where Chem Dog is
27:36underground. He's gone quiet and you
27:39focused on your glass blowing, your
27:41family, and the future. So, 10 years
27:44later, about 9 years later or so, right?
27:47Um, you get a phone call of an
27:50interested party looking to potentially
27:52get some glass in their store because
27:54the Massachusetts market is expanding
27:57and the retail operations are really
27:58getting off the ground. That wound up
28:01being the first ripple in the pond that
28:03became the march into the legal market.
28:06So, talk a little bit about that. You
28:07get a call from I got a call from Eric
28:10Williams and Mag Sanders and they were
28:11opening up stores um one in Hyok and one
28:14in Lee, Massachusetts. and Eric wanted
28:16to carry my glass in his store. So, you
28:19know, we started talking a little bit
28:20and I said, "Why don't you come on
28:21over?" We we met up one day and he came
28:23over to my house and I pulled out some
28:25chem and I rolled up a nice big fat
28:27joint for me and him and I think I got
28:29him pretty high and I think he enjoyed
28:31it and we started talking. We talked
28:32about the glass, got that in place and
28:34then we toyed he toyed around like,
28:36"Hey, would you ever think about coming
28:37to work for us and growing?" And I kind
28:39of thought about it for a minute or two
28:41and I'm like, "Fuck yeah, let's do
28:42this." after I learned that they were
28:44pretty good operators and owners to deal
28:46with. You know, a lot of these people
28:47that do a lot of these operate these
28:49things are not the best people. And
28:51that's the reason why I haven't been
28:52with anybody for all these years because
28:54I finally found the right people to work
28:55with and the opportunity was right at
28:58the time. So, and I just came upon my
29:00fifth year anniversary on June 1st with
29:02them. So, been 5 years within the legal
29:04market so far. And that gets us right to
29:07that legal line. Smash it cannabis um
29:10which you grow with your team for
29:12cannabis at our uh Berkshire uh
29:16cultivation in Sheffield, Massachusetts.
29:18Um what was you know you mentioned that
29:21one of the things that c uh called you
29:23into the legal market. What was one of
29:25those standout things that that that
29:26drew you to the team to said like we
29:28aligned in goals for cannabis? That he
29:30smokes weed. Fantastic. Never, never,
29:34never surprised me. Be surprised in this
29:36industry, Dan. Very surprised. Yeah. Um,
29:40and you know, I know one of your things
29:42that you're a great proculitizer for is
29:45the value and the need to maintain craft
29:48culture, craft cannabis, true craft.
29:50What does true craft mean to you? Just
29:52something that you would get in the
29:54illegal market that you get in the legal
29:56market. It should be the same. For
29:57instance, I'm not bashing cookies, but
29:59you they got too big and they can't
30:01control what they have in all these
30:03states to get the same quality flour
30:06that I feel that you can get through
30:07just a smaller, you know, you can do
30:09large, you can do you can be an MSO or
30:13be a bigger brand and still have quality
30:16weed as long as you oversee it and have
30:18the right people doing it. It's when it
30:19gets really upscale, overscale, and you
30:22try to get in every state, it's where it
30:23really starts the [ __ ] starts hitting
30:25the fan, you know?
30:27And so let's talk about Smash Hits for a
30:29second. Um there's some misconcept I've
30:31heard people say like oh you guys are
30:32that big, you know, that big grow, that
30:34big brand. And I I've often said like
30:36actually no, we're that's the complete
30:38opposite. So talk a little bit about
30:39Smash Hits. How big is the grow? You
30:41know, that focus on craft and your
30:43ability to keep your hand in every step
30:45of the way is is contributing to I think
30:47it's reputation as the top craft brand.
30:50Yeah, we got an indoor grow. It's almost
30:51like you know 10,000 ft roughly. We have
30:54our outdoor grow and we also have our
30:56greenhouse that we do. Um cuz the sun
30:58definitely like outdoor and greenhouse
30:59the sun the turppines definitely express
31:01different expressions in the turppines
31:03and you know it really revives the plant
31:05a little bit I feel. So it's nice to get
31:06some outdoor nice to get some greenhouse
31:09nice to get some really good indoor too
31:10you know. So we all we have a good team
31:12that takes care of all you know very
31:14well and we try to just bring the best
31:16product that we can to the market. Um,
31:19and for Smash Its cannabis, for people
31:21that don't know, um, you know, that a
31:23lot of thought was put into not only
31:25respecting the genetics that Chem has
31:27brought about in his place in, uh, local
31:31iconic cannabis culture, uh, but to also
31:34have an eye for collaboration.
31:36collaboration and everything from the
31:38design of the strain art and the real
31:40look of the brand which if you if you've
31:42ever seen Smash Its Cannabis, the brand
31:44is really modeled after this idea of
31:46really like a cool indie record label
31:48like from like the ' 50s or ' 60s or
31:50something where all those strain circles
31:52are actually designed to kind of be
31:54reflective of each of the different
31:55strains and on its own be the sort of
31:58thing where if you walk into a
31:59dispensary and you see smash hits
32:01carried on the shelf, Chem Dog strain or
32:03non Chem Dog strain, you immediately
32:05recognize that brand because it has its
32:07own voice. Um, so for the chem strains
32:10that we put out, a lot of people are are
32:13sometimes shocked at the fact that not
32:15only do we sell clones and that smash
32:18hits is available in clone form, but at
32:20on the right drops when you pick it,
32:22you're actually releasing real chemics
32:25as part of the overall strains from
32:26smash hits we drop. What are the chem
32:28strains we've dropped so far to date?
32:30Sometimes we sprinkle some chems in
32:32there. We've actually dropped the Chem91
32:34once back in about a year or two years
32:36ago. Um, recently we just dropped Chem4
32:39and we recently just dropped this week
32:41we have Chem S1 in our stores for the
32:43first time ever. So, and describe for
32:45people that don't know the ChemS the
32:47Chem S1 is a seed that came out of this
32:49Chem D. It's basically just like the
32:50Chem. So, if you're looking for the Chem
32:52D, go get the ChemS. It's got that same
32:55flavor like the GMO type flavor has,
32:58which GMO is basically all Chem. There's
33:00no cookies in it whatsoever. Even though
33:02it's got Girl Scout cookies made in it,
33:04it's definitely Chem dominant for sure.
33:07And Chem won uh a couple of Leafly
33:10awards in the last two years, right?
33:11Yeah, I believe so. Won a bud tender
33:13choice award twice in a row. And uh our
33:16concentrates have won uh the High Times
33:19Cup, our collabs with Tree Works. Um all
33:22right, I know we've got about 5 minutes
33:23or so left. Um couple quick things. one
33:26before we get to some questions. Can you
33:28describe your average day at the grow
33:30for the for the green heads in here?
33:32Like how do you kind of walk through
33:33your day? Make sure you're overseeing
33:35all these aspects because you're
33:37hightouch with the actual cultivation
33:39itself. Take us through your day at the
33:41grow. I every day I just go and I first
33:43thing I do is I go through every room
33:45first, check everything out. Got to make
33:47sure the plants are tagged cuz if
33:49they're not tagged, you know, you can
33:50get, you know, there can be some issues.
33:52So, I got to make sure I got to look a
33:54little bit better. Make sure
33:54everything's good and tagged. Make sure
33:56the crew is doing what they're supposed
33:57to. Make sure everything's getting
33:58defold in the right weeks. And uh make
34:01sure everything's getting fed. Make sure
34:02there's no drips, not feeding, you know,
34:04not getting the plants. Just give an
34:06overall look on all the plants. Make
34:07sure they're doing what they're supposed
34:08to. Make sure and when they're coming
34:10down, got to scope them. Make sure we
34:12scope them. And if they're not ready, I
34:14don't have someone banging on my door
34:16saying these have to be down at 56 days.
34:18I have the, you know, the great
34:19operators that allow me to pull the
34:21plant down when the plant's ready, not
34:23when it's 56 days or whatever. You know,
34:26if if I it needs eight and a half weeks,
34:28Eric and Meg let it go to 8 and 1/2
34:30weeks. We let it finish to what its full
34:31expectations and true expressions need
34:34to be. Amazing. And and to kind of cap
34:38off the timeline, Smash Hits Cannabis
34:40with Chem at the helm debuted uh 420 of
34:432021. Correct. Correct. So, not only
34:46debuted uh 420 2021 um 10 years after
34:50your uh uh arrest and raid and the
34:53disruption of your entire livelihood. Uh
34:56what did that feel like? Not only doing
34:58that, but now we're actually uh you're
35:00actually steering some of the collabs
35:03and the partnerships like with the the
35:04High Times uh solventless concentrate
35:07partnership that you did with Treeworks.
35:09Um that was done just a few miles down
35:11from where you again you were arrested.
35:13What does that feel like to have that
35:15full circle moment constantly swirling?
35:16It feels great. It feels great smoking a
35:18joint here in Northampton where I
35:20started to come in front of my mom and
35:21my wife and my son. It's funny, you
35:24know, just it's full circle. Perfect.
35:26Um, I know we got about 5 minutes left.
35:28Um, we could do some Q&A if anybody has
35:31questions for Chem.
35:33One thing I wanted to say is that we
35:34just got our license for project
35:36manufacturing. So, we will be making our
35:37own infused pre-rolls, doing our own
35:40with our own flour and that kind of
35:41stuff. So, we're coming for you, bass
35:43bell, guys.
35:46Um, all right. So, infused pre-roll is
35:47coming from Smash Hits. What uh what are
35:49we looking at in terms of like chem
35:51strains that we're going to infuse?
35:52Like, how do you infuse perfection? Huh?
35:56With more perfection. Well, yeah, we're
35:58just going to use our own, you know,
35:59chem. We're probably going to do a nice
36:00Chem D one with some Chem D rosin and,
36:02you know, the whole kitten kaboodles,
36:04you know. I love it. I love it. There'll
36:06be a lot of good surprises coming. Yeah,
36:08for sure. Anybody have any questions for
36:10Chem? Anybody have any memories of
36:12smoking Chem Dog? Any anecdotes? Would
36:14you like to know anything in particular?
36:17Now's the time. You in the back? No,
36:20that's okay.
36:24All right. Um, well, I mean, that's
36:26that's it. I mean, Chem, last thoughts.
36:28You are on stage. Northampton. Smash
36:31Cannabis. Clone drops are out. You can
36:33get Chem genetics through Smash Hits
36:35Cannabis. You are a local boy made good.
36:37Last thoughts to this crowd. I got I got
36:39Yeah, I got raided and so you know I'm
36:41here whatever years later. Uh and I'm
36:44actually doing like my mom's hobby is
36:46doing growing flower and we're actually
36:48doing some breeding projects together.
36:50So she and her made the banana dog D53.
36:53So that's a new thing that we did. So I
36:54thought that I think it's pretty funny.
36:56Pretty funny. I mean to be able to get a
36:59Chem's mom from Chem's mom. I mean
37:02that's a layup if I've ever heard it.
37:03What do you got Mark? I just want to say
37:06thank you to Chem Dog for what he did
37:07for this entire community. Cuz half of
37:10this wouldn't exist without people like
37:12him keeping these strains alive,
37:14breaking the law back in the day before
37:16it was legal, before everybody in their
37:17grandmother started growing weed. So,
37:20thank you, Chem Dog, for what you did,
37:21the sacrifices you and your family have
37:23made for us. I'm a cultivator myself. I
37:25wouldn't be doing what I've been doing
37:26if it wasn't for somebody like you. So,
37:28thanks a lot. Appreciate it. Thank you,
37:30Mark. I really appreciate that. Thank
37:32you.
37:37Any other questions or any other thing
37:38for Chem Dog? All right. If not, uh,
37:41Chem, thank you very much, uh, for the
37:43time, for being here. Once again, I'm
37:45Dan McCarthy, uh, media director and AI
37:48strategist for Canopvisions and Smash
37:50Hits. This is Chem Dog, director of
37:51Cultivations. Check out
37:53canopervisions.com and smash
37:54hitscanabis.com. Uh, clone drops are
37:57happening right now if you're looking
37:58for chem strains, and chem will be
38:00floating around. So, and if you're
38:02looking for real chem strains that you
38:03can buy in flower form, please come to
38:05our stores at Canervisions in Hoy Oak
38:07and Lee, Massachusetts, and you can get
38:09great clones.
38:10Thank you all. Love it. Thanks, Cam.
38:12Thank you everyone.

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