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Oprah and author Anthony Ray Hinton on "The Sun Does Shine" — Transcript

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0:00only on CBS this morning Oprah just
0:02revealed on CBS this morning her latest
0:04book club pic and Oprah has agreed to
0:06stay with us to join us because you're
0:08so psyched about the book but I'm so
0:10psyched about the book it's called the
0:11Sun does shine how I found life and
0:14freedom on death row I couldn't sleep
0:17really you know I was so excited about
0:19telling everybody about this book and I
0:21want everybody to go out and get this
0:22book so that I tells the story it tells
0:25the story of Anthony ray Hinton thirty
0:30years on death row for crimes he did not
0:32commit until he was released in 2015 but
0:37we should talk we're having a little
0:38technical issue yes we're having more
0:41than a technical issue so we have to
0:43pass a microphone like they did back in
0:441952 so please bear with us this is
0:47Anthony ray Hinton the reason why Oprah
0:49was so excited because she normally
0:51doesn't pick memoirs but you were
0:53falsely accused for 30 years and why
0:55this story is so extraordinary you were
0:57accused of what exactly I was Kyuzo to
1:00capital murder and crime that they knew
1:03that I didn't commit and so it took 30
1:05years before I got no release not only
1:08did they know you didn't commit it but
1:10he had passed a polygraph test over what
1:12else happened why this was so egregious
1:13well it was so egregious because the
1:16state of Alabama accused him of doing
1:18something that they didn't have any
1:20evidence for they went back to the house
1:22and got the gun that an old gun that his
1:26mother had had and hadn't been fired for
1:2825 years
1:30the defense attorney paid some guy off
1:34the street to be a ballistics expert it
1:36was legally blind in one eye and who who
1:39you know was not qualified to do
1:42anything not to mention be a ballistics
1:44expert and in that moment mr. Hinton
1:47realized that you were going to lose
1:49that trial correct yes and I just know
1:52they were gonna find me guilty of
1:53capital murder
1:54you knew that even though you passed the
1:56polygraph test
1:57the prosecution talked to the judge and
2:01it was not permissible to be used they
2:04wouldn't allow it yeah so the agreement
2:07was before I took you if I pass I can
2:10use it if I fail the prosecution we use
2:13it and you
2:14then I passed it and let me say an FBI
2:17agent gave it to me gave me the product
2:20girl that guy said he said at the end
2:23this man don't know anything about this
2:25murderer and if I can go by this
2:27polygraph I would take him out of this
2:29jail tonight yeah but what happened mr.
2:32Hinton they just basically decided that
2:34there these two murders had occurred it
2:37had upset the community and somebody was
2:40going to pay yeah yeah the thing that
2:42got me was the fact that I can't imagine
2:44what this angle looks like we but the
2:47thing that got me my nostrils the thing
2:53that got me is that they knew he didn't
2:56do it but they wanted to make the
2:57community feel better and when he went
2:59to his own defense attorney and you said
3:02to your defense attorney would it make
3:04any difference to you if I if I told you
3:05I was innocent he said he said the
3:08problem with that statement
3:09y'all always are doing something y'all
3:12referring to blacks y'all along with
3:14that party always doing something Indian
3:17saying you didn't do it and this is the
3:20me that I had to rely on yeah yeah did
3:23he say is this the one same man that
3:25said if you didn't do it one of your
3:26homies what did detective said that that
3:29arrest me he said this ain't not true to
3:32believe we didn't do it but y'all always
3:34taking up for one another
3:36take this rap for your homeboy and one
3:38of them also said listen you're gonna be
3:40convicted why he said because there's
3:42five thing that's going to convict you
3:44first because you're black second
3:47because the white man is gonna say you
3:48shot him whether you shot him or not I
3:50really don't care he's saying thirdly
3:52you're gonna have a white prosecutor for
3:54for going up a white church and fifth
3:56you're gonna have an all-white jury but
3:58you still kept thinking I'm gonna get
4:00out I'm gonna get out because I didn't
4:02do this
4:02absolutely you know I wanted to believe
4:04that the justice system didn't work that
4:06way
4:07I had never been convicted of being
4:09involved in anything serious like that
4:12and so I just didn't believe that they
4:15was more that there was more in tune to
4:18finding the true killer I didn't just
4:20think they was going to put someone to
4:23eat
4:23the the business community and they
4:27wanted to make the business community
4:29feel safe again
4:33what happened keep going so but so how
4:39do you how do you hold on to hope when
4:41you've been sense it it took two hours
4:43for the trial two hours and then for two
4:46hours for deliberations and then 45
4:48minutes you convicted to death how do
4:51you all hold on to hope when you've
4:53already gone this far because you're
4:54thinking they'll never convict me I
4:56certainly won't be sitting to death how
4:58do you hold on to hope knowing that you
5:00know you shouldn't have been there
5:02well it's the way that I was brought up
5:04my mother brought me up through faith
5:06told me that God can do everything but
5:09fail and at that moment I realized
5:12everything then I thought that okay they
5:16gonna find out and I got true to believe
5:19that they was gonna look at this more
5:21and say hey Christian we made a mistake
5:23but as time went on and once the judge
5:26sentenced me to death I got to death row
5:29and tell them about the moment you're in
5:32the courtroom and you hear the guilty
5:35verdict I thought this was so
5:37interesting because I you know the whole
5:38time you're reading this book you you
5:40can't help but put yourself in his shoes
5:42and think about what looking what would
5:44this what would this mean for me we'd
5:46also like to take your questions if you
5:48have something for Oprah mr. Hinton go
5:50ahead yeah III was thinking about what
5:52would I do what would I do what I do
5:53first of all I wouldn't have been able
5:54to survive the way you did and I have
5:56great you do good service no the reason
5:59I couldn't survive is because the cell
6:01was 5x7
6:02yes no windows no no windows is
6:05obviously on death row and you you don't
6:08see a tree or a blade of grass I I
6:11actually could not survive without
6:12seeing something in nature that I
6:15wouldn't make it I was just looking at
6:16concrete my whole life but the fact that
6:18when you were sentenced that you said
6:21there's a that you went blind for a
6:23month I think I would too and you've out
6:24and speak no you didn't work for three
6:26years three years you didn't say a word
6:28when he said it I sentence you to death
6:31and I look back and I knew my niece was
6:34back there behind me
6:35and at that moment my eyesight was gone
6:39I didn't know who she was and and I just
6:42had to sit down and I sit down and my
6:45eyesight came back for that moment and I
6:48just couldn't believe it I mean I don't
6:50even to this thing
6:52know how to explain the feeling the
6:54sadness the disappointment and I felt
6:57there but it is there
6:58hope everything that my mom told me I
7:00know my mom would never lied to me and I
7:03kept saying
7:04where were you god yeah what was you
7:06when I needed you you know what else you
7:08said in the book about your mother
7:10you said you your mom would say how are
7:12you doing you told her I'm fine I'm fine
7:13everything's good they're treating me
7:15real good you said sometimes you believe
7:17it's important to tell a lie to protect
7:19the person that you love a few and to be
7:21kind to the person I lied to her
7:23repeatedly to song and I was I lied to
7:27her to protect her because I know she
7:29would protect me and I kept one and I
7:32actually I said it's mom okay and he
7:34said I still think she in shock and I
7:37began to believe she was trying to act
7:39as though everything was normal to
7:42protect me in the way she knew how I
7:43love and care about one of the things
7:45that really struck me so much is I did
7:49an interview with mr. Hinton supersoul
7:52on this coming Sunday and you said you
7:56really believe your mother died of a
7:59broken heart yes I truly believe that in
8:03oh she didn't get to see you free she
8:05died 2002 yes and for years she would
8:08come to prison and say when you comin
8:09home yeah that's the only question she
8:11had when they gonna let you go
8:13and I said mom they're working on it
8:15I'll be home soon and soon ended up 30
8:19years yeah cuz you went to prison 19 why
8:21you see 1986 and she died in 2002 so he
8:25never got yes she freaked and when I got
8:27worried that she had died I told Bryan
8:30Stevenson I don't give a damn about this
8:32case and I hung up on him and I tried to
8:35sleep at night but I couldn't it was as
8:37though my mother came in that sale and
8:39just got in my head and say I'm very
8:41disappointed that you wouldn't give up
8:44and you heard your mom's dad raise a
8:45quitter yes
8:47what is amazing about it quick before
8:50you do the questions can I just say
8:52what's amazing about those 30 years you
8:54know Gayle and I've been friends now for
8:55I think 40-something Oh since we were 21
8:58in 63
9:00okay the whole time I was reading about
9:06lessor I thought lester is your gales
9:08and Lester because this is what Gayle
9:11would do for me I know I would do it for
9:15me I would do it for you I might have
9:16missed a week ago you were 30 years
9:28Lester you should his best friend his
9:31best friend Lester for 30 years they
9:33were six and four years old have been
9:35four best friends and he never missed a
9:38weekend of coming to see him in prison
9:40Lester you are
9:42why Lester you never missed a week why I
9:44couldn't found him you know not being
9:46with him nuts it's bad enough when you
9:48talk to someone day in and day out yeah
9:50and to not be around him you know it was
9:53just you never doubted his innocence no
9:55never questioned the conversation never
9:57came up
9:58yeah you know and when you all read the
10:00book you'll see it's so ridiculous he
10:03was at work he was clocked at alibi had
10:06an alibi it was a white man you thought
10:08that because your boss your supervisors
10:10lying start oh my god yeah white men
10:13will tell them the truth
10:14thank God thank you God it's a white my
10:19supervisor is white go to him and
10:21irritate me they come back and said we
10:23got good news and bad news the good news
10:26we no longer gonna charge you for this
10:27but we decided that we're gonna charge
10:30you for this and that supervisor
10:32couldn't say anything for those who knew
10:35each other he couldn't say he was
10:36working and that's how I think but just
10:38a gun that hadn't been fired for 25
10:40years it clearly couldn't have been the
10:42murder weapon that was enough passing
10:44the polygraph that wasn't enough no
10:46having an alibi that wasn't enough so
10:48enter Bryan Stevenson who has to be an
10:50angel among angels for you
10:52Oprah talk about Bryan Steve Bryan
10:54Stevenson founded the equal justice
10:56Institute in Montgomery Alabama and he
10:59is
10:59spent his life freeing people from not
11:03just death row but freeing them from
11:05situations where they were where there's
11:08evidence that they were falsely accused
11:10and he is a big part of the the the
11:14fight for equal justice in this country
11:18and to fight mass incarceration and he
11:21said to about your story that no stories
11:23affected him out of the way yes this one
11:25the same thing that operates and in his
11:26book just mercy he begins his book
11:29talking about the case with Anthony Rea
11:32Hinton he is an angel among yes if it
11:37wasn't for EJ I I truly believe the
11:43state of Alabama had every intention and
11:45it was just waiting on the date from the
11:48Supreme Court to execute yeah and they
11:51knew that I was innocent we big the
11:55state of Alabama to reexamine the
11:57bullets and I often ask people why
12:00didn't reassembled because they already
12:02knew that the bullets didn't matter
12:04they've never apologized you and from
12:05the state of Alabama's point of view
12:07you're still a guilty man yes yes
12:09they've never apologized yes yes yeah I
12:12want the state of Alabama to apologize
12:14that is what I want is the state of
12:17Alabama to apologize and I want people
12:19to buy this book and read this book and
12:21understand that there are hundreds and
12:24thousands of Anthony Rae Hinton's in out
12:26there in the mass incarceration system
12:29that deserve the opportunity for justice
12:34but before we go the most one of them
12:36there are so many compelling stories we
12:37keep saying that but Henry Hayes is a
12:40white man who's on death row with you a
12:41former Klansmen yes you don't know that
12:44he's white but you always say compassion
12:46has no color the reason you don't know
12:47he's white is because when you're on
12:49death row you just can't you can't see
12:51you can't see each other yeah yes well
12:53Henry went out and did something heinous
12:56and him and never did nineteen-year-old
13:00blast and you know Henry Lynch yes
13:03genitals yes very heinous this is the
13:05first white man convicted in 86 years in
13:08a state of Alabama for killing a black
13:10yes yeah
13:11and when he came in you know we became
13:14to talking I didn't see his color any of
13:17that but I realized that Henry had been
13:22cheated in life his mother and father
13:24told him they hate from the day he was
13:26conceived his neighborhood had told him
13:29- he didn't conceive and I often wonder
13:31when Henry went to school he had to use
13:35words that would make the teachers say
13:38he'd been talking Rice's but if you go
13:41to school with a wimp on him on a mark
13:43that teaches by law have to call the
13:45authorities and they will remove that
13:47child from that home and I often wonder
13:49when I got to know Hays why didn't the
13:53authority DHR going to protect this
13:56child
13:56well societies say that it takes a
13:59village to raise a child
14:00what was this village when Ava was being
14:02mental abuse and so what we did on death
14:05row I began to teach chase about law and
14:09I truly believe that just as you program
14:12to hate you can be deprogrammed to look
14:14and so we taught Hays and we showed her
14:18love and we respect - hey we never did
14:20George Hayes because every man that was
14:22there accused and been convicted of a
14:25heinous crime you say there's no racism
14:28absolutely absolutely and what I love
14:31most on the night of Henry execution
14:36they asks you two things what would you
14:38like to have for your last meal and what
14:40would you like to say and the night of
14:42his execution Hayes 8 or 8 ounce steak
14:46and he said all of my life I've been
14:49taught to hate the very people that I've
14:52been taught to hate or the very people
14:54that taught me what love was all about
14:56all my life he's been told taught to
14:58hate black people
14:59oh yes yeah and he said tonight I leave
15:01this world knowing what true love feel
15:04like and they put things to death yeah
15:08and I know that if he could have been
15:12reached on death row imagine if someone
15:15had tried to reach him earlier earlier
15:18and I think society bear a
15:20responsibility as well so does your
15:22passion about this book you want to do
15:24what you
15:25I said before you came mr. Hinton that I
15:27have not seen her as excited about a
15:28book since color purple where she said I
15:30will literally pass a book out to
15:32strangers on the street yeah I've never
15:34seen her as excited about it because I
15:36think it's important time in our culture
15:38in our history for people to understand
15:40what it means to be on death row and
15:43what it means to say yeah give him the
15:45death sentence when a quarter of the
15:48people who are there should not actually
15:50be there and a quarter yeah yes and when
15:54there's also such in justices when you
15:58are poor and a person of color black
16:01Hispanic and you cannot afford to have
16:04lawyers it's better to be guilty and
16:06rich poor and innocent and so that's why
16:10I think this book is so important and
16:12you are a symbol for all of the people
16:14who deserved to be set free are you
16:18issuing a challenge yes well this is
16:20what I'm hoping is that everybody will
16:21read the book and then you'll really
16:24have a lot of questions for Lester and
16:27for mr. Hinton and we're gonna come
16:30together again in late June we'll let
16:33you know when that is and I'm going to
16:34invite you Lester and you mr. Hinton to
16:39Maui well where I was gonna be
16:41vacationing oh but let's vacation
16:43together vacation I want to come we'll
16:49do a Facebook live we didn't say kill
16:51you can come Facebook live Facebook live
16:58for my front yard okay let's do that
17:04do you have one question before we go
17:06Brandon did any of your guards believe
17:08you were innocent yes any of your hearts
17:10believe you were I would actually say
17:12nanny passing of the guard when mr.
17:16Stevenson would come to the prison
17:17frankly they would ask me what can I do
17:19to help you help him out of here yeah
17:21because he don't belong yeah you know
17:24just before I said this on CBS this
17:26morning the Gayle and I were talking
17:28about the book is when I really like a
17:29book I get excited and I was like have
17:30you read it yet and so she was preparing
17:34for this morning she was saying gosh I
17:36really like mister
17:37why do I like mr. Anton so much Gail and
17:39I had the honor and pleasure of spending
17:42a lot of time with Nelson Mandela before
17:45he died and I remember the time we were
17:48sitting at the table and your son will
17:49said can you pass the peanuts and I said
17:51I'm gonna remember this please so we
17:58spend a lot of time with Nelson Mandela
17:59and one of the things that you recognize
18:02when you immediately in the presence of
18:04Nelson Mandela is his goodness and his
18:07kindness as effective and His grace
18:10effect that he spent 27 years in prison
18:12and invited the guards to his
18:15inauguration
18:16Anthony Rea Hinton has the spirit of
18:19Nelson Mandela one of the first people
18:21I've ever met who is actually a gentle
18:24man who has that spirit of grace and
18:27kindness and forgiveness forgiveness
18:31that you can spend 30 years on death row
18:34and know that you were innocent and not
18:38have the state of Alabama apologized to
18:41you but you come out with no bitterness
18:43like why do you have that fairness and
18:46bitterness killed the soul and I truly
18:49believe that those men in the state of
18:52Alabama did this for whatever they
18:54reason with it I cannot sit back and
18:57wait on an apology I have a life that I
18:59want to live but you lost so much of
19:01your lydian and I have gained so much
19:04anything I didn't forgive those men so
19:08they could sleep good at night I forgave
19:10them so I could sleep good at night and
19:12so I think that I deserve that
19:14just sleep good at night you just
19:16deserve that and even more yeah that the
19:19Sun does shine y'all please buy this
19:22books on him to go stand on the corner
19:26wherever you buy books wherever you buy
19:28them Amy's going everywhere like to buy
19:31your way

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