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Onzichtbaar en verslavend: de opmars van nicotinezakjes — Transcript

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0:06It’s everywhere in soccer. I see it
0:09when I go out. I’m at school. Finding
0:12snus at my door.
0:13>> In VRT news Pano. Nicotine pouches or
0:16snus.
0:16>> Don’t lie. If I say one in three
0:19players uses snus.
0:20>> Sales are banned in our country, yet
0:22nicotine pouches are massively finding
0:24their way to young people.
0:25>> Night shops sell them everywhere. I use
0:27nicotine pouches on a daily basis.
0:30>> According to the industry, better for
0:32your health.
0:33>> If that combustion can be eliminated,
0:35then we are making great progress
0:37regarding those smoking-related
0:39diseases.
0:40>> But what do we really know about the
0:42risks?
0:43>> But it is actually very intense.
0:45Nicotine is poison.
0:47>> I was completely hooked on it. Couldn't
0:49go a day without it.
0:51>> It doesn’t just have an even stronger
0:53addictive effect on minors. It will
0:56also have worse long-term consequences.
1:00Pano, nicotine in a pouch.
1:07>> Nicotine pouches. Have you ever heard
1:09of them?
1:10>> Uh, yeah. For sure.
1:12>> And do you know snus?
1:14>> Yeah.
1:14>> Yes. Those and also little bags in them
1:17. I use uh nicotine pouches on uh a
1:19daily basis. Hey, we are journalism
1:21students at the VUB and we see more and
1:24more nicotine pouches in our
1:25environment.
1:26>> That’s why we’re going out to
1:28interview young people.
1:29>> Let's go.
1:30>> Giel, Jonas, and Pieter Jan are doing
1:32their master's thesis in investigative
1:34journalism at the VUB about what seems
1:36to be a new trend among youth. Nicotine
1:39pouches or snus. Small white pouches in
1:42a nice round box with attractive
1:45flavors from fresh mint to tingling
1:47cactus spice.
1:49>> Users place the pouches in their mouths
1:52under their upper lip. That gives a
1:54nicotine hit.
1:56>> In our country, you are not allowed to
1:58sell these, yet it is everywhere.
2:00>> Many people do that. You see it a lot
2:02at the station and at school,
2:04everywhere actually. People at my door,
2:06at my door. I know a lot of people who
2:09have done it, and even classmates who
2:10used to do it during class.
2:12>> But you see it everywhere in soccer. I
2:14see it when I go out. I see it at
2:16school. Everywhere.
2:18>> I think 60%of the kids. Yeah.
2:21>> 60%, that's a bit of an exaggeration.
2:24Our students conducted their own survey
2:26among 500 young people. It shows that
2:28over 10%of them have already tucked a
2:31nicotine pouch under their lip. 93%of
2:33young people know what nicotine pouches
2:36are. Snus smoke in Sweden. Instead of
2:51smoking and.
2:55>> Nicotine pouches are a Swedish
2:57invention. They are not prohibited
3:00there at all.
3:01>> You can get nicotine pouches everywhere
3:03in Sweden. Sweden. I have the white
3:07gold. Okay. This is nicotine pouches.
3:12>> For sale in specialized shops, but also
3:15just in the snack bar. Nicotine pouches
3:19or snus are integrated here. In Sweden,
3:22a smoker is an exception. They are into
3:26snus. Delicious. Those nicotine pouches
3:35only hit the market 10 years ago.
3:38Developed by this man, pharmacist
3:41Thomas Eriksson. We can call you the
3:45father of nicotine pouches, I think.
3:48>> I don't like to call me that.
3:50>> Why not? Yes, it's—we were many who
3:54contributed to this. There were many
3:59companies developing white pouches.
4:01>> Hm hm.
4:02>> As an alternative to smoke.
4:05>> Eriksson previously worked on
4:07developing Nicorette smoking cessation
4:09products. You get those at the pharmacy
4:11. Maybe bigger. The creators also want
4:21to turn nicotine pouches into a
4:23commercial success. Freely and widely
4:26available, just like cigarettes. They
4:29succeeded with these white pouches.
4:31Containing a powder soaked in nicotine,
4:34flavoring, and scents. Something
4:36different from traditional snus.
4:39>> This is made from tobacco.
4:41>> Hm hm. I call it ugly snus. They like
4:47the ugly one, so they have started to
4:49use this one instead. This smells very
4:52special; this doesn't smell. A little
4:56bit of flavor, but you can see the
4:58difference.
5:01>> And from a health perspective, it's not
5:04such a big difference, but this is the
5:06fastest growing. Eriksson's invention
5:12is quickly picked up by several tobacco
5:15giants. We requested an interview with
5:17the four largest ones. Almost all of
5:19them refused. Except for one: Philip
5:22Morris. Philip Morris claims it wants
5:25to help chain smokers quit, because
5:28cigarettes are unhealthy. We decided 10
5:32years ago to radically change course
5:35and, um, to commit to, uh, a smoke-free
5:38future. If we bring nicotine pouches to
5:42market, we are targeting that, uh,
5:44chain smoker we want to steer away from
5:47the cigarette. Um.
5:49>> Are you claiming that Philip Morris is
5:51concerned about public health? Philip
5:53Morris. Uh, it may sound very, very, uh
5:56, contradictory, uh, but we know that
5:59our, uh—the product that made us the
6:02company we are today, the cigarette—
6:04that the cigarette is the most harmful
6:07nicotine product. Yes, we have 1.5
6:10billion cigarettes per day today.
6:13>> Yes, I understand the skepticism and I
6:16understand very well what you—what
6:18you mean. Um, we said 10 years ago we
6:21are going to turn the ship around
6:23completely and we are going to say of
6:25the product that made us big: okay, we
6:28are going to try to phase that out as
6:30quickly as possible. And when we see
6:34that in countries like Sweden, where we
6:37do have these products on the market
6:39and where health gains can be achieved,
6:41then that is interesting to look at.
6:44>> Still remarkable. The tobacco industry
6:47wants to help us kick the cigarette.
6:51and she wants us to take a leaf out of
6:53Sweden's book. There, the number of
6:55smokers has supposedly dropped thanks
6:57to nicotine pouches. People use it all
7:01the time in every place.
7:03>> Everyone does it or most people
7:06>> mostly when I'm hanging out with my
7:08boyfriend because he's addicted to it.
7:10>> Do you have it on you?
7:11>> Yeah. Actually, I have one left in here
7:14. You can have it. Making a documentary
7:17about snus. Snus.
7:19>> Yeah. No, I don't. Max. Max.
7:23>> Max. And what does it do to you? It
7:28just makes me calm. Okay. Nothing more.
7:33>> And do you use it during soccer as well
7:35?
7:35>> Yeah.
7:37>> Sometimes, almost like 90%have tried it
7:40at least, many players use it.
7:44>> But I, I don't use it because it's,
7:47it's not a good thing. It's common that
7:52Swedish footballers give it to foreign
7:54players. So it's really amazing that
7:59snus is traveling from Sweden to
8:02England, uh, Belgium.
8:08>> That's how nicotine pouches ended up in
8:10our country, with former Anderlecht
8:13goalkeeper Frank Boeckx, for example.
8:15He smoked, but top-level sports and
8:17cigarettes, those don't go well
8:19together, of course. The solution came
8:22from the north.
8:23>> A friend of mine went to play in
8:25Copenhagen and said, "Yeah, I, uh, then
8:27from my teammates, um, tried it once.
8:30Uh, you should try it sometime, too."
8:32It doesn't smoke, that's much better
8:33for your lungs and it's much better.
8:34Those Scandinavians swear by it. Yeah.
8:38>> Frank Boeckx traded his cigarettes for
8:41snus. He was one of the first and has
8:44seen its use increase enormously over
8:46the years.
8:48>> It helps you focus better. But if you
8:51use it after the match, for some reason
8:53, it's also something that helps you
8:55relax. I was the only one in the
8:57dressing room at first who had a little
8:59tin like that. Eventually, everyone had
9:01that tin lying in their locker.
9:02>> Yeah. Um, and I, I'm not lying when I
9:06say one in three footballers uses snus,
9:08and in some dressing rooms, that goes
9:11above 50%.
9:13>> When it rains at the pro clubs, it
9:15drips at the amateurs. As a supposedly
9:18healthy alternative to smoking,
9:20nicotine pouches are becoming
9:21increasingly popular among young
9:23athletes. Our students are noticing
9:25that too.
9:26>> When did you first hear about snus?
9:28Actually through my brother, uh, he
9:30plays soccer and apparently it's really
9:32a trend in the soccer world.
9:33>> Uh, actually, my whole soccer team,
9:35like, before training, during matches,
9:37really, really a lot, actually, if I,
9:38if I see it like that.
9:40>> Also during matches?
9:41>> Yes, in the pause.
9:43>> I have heard that many footballers use
9:45it before they go play soccer or
9:47something.
9:47>> During gym, especially moments where I
9:49need to concentrate.
9:51>> I've seen that myself at soccer too, on
9:53the pitch. And in the locker rooms,
9:55even the stars. The Barcelona
9:57goalkeeper does it and is open about it
9:59too.
10:03>> Giel, one of our three students, has no
10:06experience with nicotine, but he wants
10:09to try such a nicotine pouch.
10:11>> I have um Pablo here. That is one of
10:14the best-known brands among the youth.
10:16>> Giel takes a pouch with 24 mg of
10:18nicotine in it. Not an extremely high
10:21dose. And there is a nurse present.
10:23>> We also did research on that with our
10:25thesis. And I always said back then,
10:27once I’ve submitted my thesis, I’m
10:29going to try a nicotine pouch. But it
10:42feels, it burns quite a lot.
10:45>> Pain. Yes, it is painful. Starting to
10:50spin. Very dizzy, but it is quite
10:57intense. The, the room is going like
11:01I’m on a ride. I’m going to take it
11:04out now, I think. Heart rate of 110.
11:16>> I felt it too. I felt it. We are also
11:20hyperventilating.
11:21>> Spots in my head and, but I really
11:24don’t feel good. But that minors do
11:38this, that is really not okay. Giel
11:45stays lying down for a moment, but
11:47recovers. What he experienced, they see
11:53in schools everywhere in Flanders. A
11:55few times a year at the Atheneum in
11:58Lier, for example.
11:59>> The first time I had taken one too
12:01strong, so uh that was really hard.
12:03>> The world really starts spinning fast.
12:06Got really sick and it only went away
12:08after half an hour.
12:09>> Last year, I had it twice that a
12:10student actually just started throwing
12:12up during class from using snus. Uh,
12:14that he actually had to leave the
12:16classroom and was sick from it. So that
12:18is very problematic.
12:19>> We found this yesterday on the chair
12:21next to the heating. It had also been
12:23thrown through the classroom. And then
12:25afterwards, it fell out of his pants
12:26pocket.
12:27>> You can also see it in their behavior,
12:28right. That attitude they have. Their
12:31eyes. Um, that sluggish feeling they
12:33have in class. So you can pick them out
12:35. Yeah.
12:40>> The white pouches smell intensely of
12:43fruit, candy, or mint and look harmless
12:45. But our students hear very different
12:48stories.
12:51>> A few months ago, I was having a bit of
12:53trouble with my gums. That was very
12:55sensitive. And when I brushed my teeth,
12:57it would bleed a lot. So that gum
13:00starts to recede.
13:01>> There was all this skin coming loose
13:03and, yeah, that just really wasn't
13:05pretty anymore.
13:06>> Sometimes, when you took it out, your
13:08lip would really come with it. Like,
13:11your gums would just come along with
13:14that snus. Yes, just come right out of
13:16your mouth. You could literally take it
13:19out of your mouth. Literally pieces of
13:21gum, because it has such a burning
13:24effect that it comes loose.
13:27>> Dentists are also seeing the
13:29consequences in their practice. Because
13:32there is reduced blood flow due to the
13:34nicotine, you are less able to fight
13:36off infections. Furthermore, because
13:39that pouch is mechanically rubbing
13:41against the gums, there can be very
13:44localized gum recession, sometimes
13:46leaving the tooth roots exposed.
13:49>> Nicotine is also extremely harmful to
13:52the heart and blood vessels.
13:54>> Nicotine is poison.
13:56>> Nicotine is a cardiovascular toxic
13:59substance. It is poison for your blood
14:02vessels. What does nicotine actually do
14:05? It works on certain receptors in your
14:07body, which actually triggers a type of
14:09stress reaction. Blood pressure goes up
14:11, heart rate goes up, our blood vessels
14:14change and constrict as a result of
14:16nicotine. And we know that all those
14:18effects lead to hardening of the
14:19arteries in the long term, and
14:21hardening of the arteries leads to
14:22heart attacks. So, in that way, you are
14:25actually laying the foundation for
14:27heart attacks in 20 or 30 years. But
14:30Philip Morris mainly sees benefits for
14:32health.
14:34>> A product itself is not the silver
14:37bullet. It is not just by offering a
14:39product that everything is suddenly
14:42solved. But the big difference between
14:45what we are doing in Belgium and what
14:48Sweden has achieved is the embracing of
14:50harm reduction.
14:54>> Nicotine pouches as a way to limit the
14:57damage. Not everyone in Sweden is
14:59convinced of that by a long shot.
15:02Professor Rosario Galanti, for example.
15:05A doctor who has been researching
15:07tobacco and nicotine use among the
15:09Swedish population for years. Almost
15:13everything is less dangerous than
15:15smoking.
15:17>> Do you think that nicotine pouches can
15:19have a role in stopping smoking? From
15:27what we see from Sweden? No. Sweden has
15:30demonstrated the contrary. Smoking.
15:35Declining smoking. Resokers.
15:47>> The figures prove that the number of
15:49smokers in Sweden has been declining
15:52for decades, while the use of nicotine
15:54pouches is a recent phenomenon in
15:56Sweden as well. There is also another
16:02health problem, because nicotine is not
16:04only harmful to the body, it is also
16:07highly addictive. I was completely
16:09hooked on it. I couldn't go a day
16:12without it. I once tried to cut back by
16:15just saying I would buy the 12 mg ones
16:18and stick to those. But eventually, you
16:21take two at once. Your body is so used
16:23to it that, at a certain point, it
16:26actually craves it a bit. It might
16:28sound really stupid, but I know that if
16:31I stop snus now, I would go back to
16:33vaping or cigarettes.
16:34>> It is an addiction you can actually
16:36hide very easily because you're just
16:38functioning perfectly and acting normal
16:39while you have it. You'd rather not go
16:41outside; it's not that obvious. You're
16:44going to get higher concentrations even
16:45more easily. You're going to become
16:47even more dependent on nicotine.
16:49>> Frank Boek stopped using snus in April
16:52of this year. He also had a very hard
16:54time after 15 years of use.
16:57>> Three days of cold sweats, three days
16:59of, um, yeah, hot flashes. Feeling bad,
17:03cranky, and annoying toward my wife.
17:06Just like a heroin addict who isn't
17:08getting his fix.
17:09>> Now he doesn't use it anymore, or
17:11hardly at all. Look, I'm going to sneak
17:14one from you anyway. That's one that
17:18I'm eating. H Nicotine is actually
17:22among the most addictive drugs in the
17:24world. And that is because it falsely
17:27interferes with the nervous system.
17:30>> Tobacco prevention expert Philip Lardon
17:33says that nicotine causes a sharp rise
17:36in dopamine. A substance that creates a
17:38feeling of happiness. But of course, if
17:41a starting snus user takes relatively a
17:43lot of nicotine at first and then less
17:45later because they stop, the brain will
17:47actually say, "Yeah, but we want more
17:49nicotine back." And that is the craving
17:51that keeps growing for that nicotine.
17:53And it actually gets even worse if we
17:56do that with minors. If we influence
17:58nicotine and dopamine at that moment,
18:00then the reward center of those young
18:02people will be affected for the rest of
18:05their lives. So it doesn't just have an
18:08even stronger addictive effect on
18:10minors. It will also have even worse
18:13long-term consequences. That's a
18:16disaster, isn't it? We have seen the
18:19number of cigarettes smoked decrease
18:21for 20, 30 years. If we now get a whole
18:24generation of young people addicted to
18:26this product or similar products, they
18:29will have just as much trouble stopping
18:31later when they realize it might not be
18:33that healthy after all. And we know
18:36that all those who keep using it will
18:38unfortunately end up becoming clients
18:40of cardiologists.
18:41>> I think so, absolutely. So nicotine is
18:44addictive. Nicotine is certainly not
18:48risk-free. So if we focus on that adult
18:51smoker who needs to evolve away from
18:53the cigarette, then it is mainly the
18:56combustion that we want to avoid. So if
19:01that combustion can be eliminated and
19:04we let that adult smoker switch to
19:06something that is much less harmful,
19:08then we are making great progress in
19:10terms of smoke-related diseases. The
19:15target group for nicotine pouches is
19:17therefore older, long-term smokers. Not
19:20young people, says Philip Morris.
19:22>> We do not target young people. We do
19:25not target new nicotine users. We focus
19:28exclusively on the adult smoker whom we
19:31help make the switch.
19:33>> Sari de Grave finds that hard to
19:36believe. At Ghent University, she
19:39researches the normalization of
19:41unhealthy products among young people.
19:47We can't explicitly accuse the industry
19:50of targeting youth, but there are many
19:52implicit cues involved that attract
19:55them. And there is scientific evidence
19:59that these types of cues work. So, it
20:02is certainly no coincidence that these
20:04products look the way they do. It’s
20:06playful packaging, a modern font—
20:09things that attract young people.
20:11Bright colors, for instance, too. This
20:14is actually a good example of that. It
20:17is typical to make products pink to
20:20signal to ladies, you can use this too.
20:22Yes, this one, for example, I find is
20:25very clearly aimed at young people.
20:27That is also very, yes, that Pablo Esco
20:29one. It’s really that idea of, this
20:31is cool. It’s fun to take something
20:34like that. You’re taking a risk.
20:36You’re doing something that’s
20:38already a bit outside the lines. On
20:42social media, nicotine pouches are
20:44presented as performance-enhancing.
20:48>> Just look at Daddy Wellness.
20:52>> Oh my goodness.
20:54>> An American health guru with over 2
20:56million followers.
21:00>> That branding is also very often done
21:03on social media. More and more
21:06influencer marketing and just having a
21:09kind of fun online presence on
21:11Instagram. How old is he here?
21:16>> Those are people you want to be. So,
21:19really building a brand and not just
21:21presenting nicotine pouches and trying
21:24to sell them.
21:26>> The sale of nicotine pouches is
21:29prohibited in Belgium, there are checks
21:31, and yet you can get them everywhere.
21:34>> Most newsagents or night shops?
21:36>> Night shops. They sell that everywhere.
21:39>> Yes.
21:40>> Yes, in night shops for sure.
21:41>> Okay.
21:42>> Through dealers. People who buy in bulk
21:45and then resell to young people, or buy
21:48cheap, or some night shops sell them,
21:50or bookstores or something. So yes,
21:53it’s all illegal, but they always
21:55manage to get them. Our students '
22:00research shows that some users start
22:02dealing themselves. I started doing
22:06that purely because I wanted to earn an
22:08extra buck, and after a while, the
22:10money just kept coming. So I thought,
22:13I'll continue, and I've been doing it
22:16for about six months now. At first, I
22:18started on Insta. People would message
22:20me like, "Yo, do you have snus?" And
22:22then I’d send them, "Yes, which one
22:24and how much it costs." Yes, then I
22:26just had people add me on Snapchat,
22:28because word got around that I was the
22:30dealer. When I started, I was 17. So I
22:34had a friend who was already 18, and
22:37yeah, I had him buy me 20 tubs a week.
22:40And uh, it would arrive at his house.
22:43I’d pay him, and then I’d just
22:45resell them. It's about cash and bank
22:47transfers, because some people transfer
22:49the money since they don't have cash.
22:52And I find that risky, because my
22:54parents can see that. So I think I'm at
22:57about 1600 or so in total. So that’s
23:02a nice bit of extra money, I think.
23:05There is indeed money to be made with
23:07nicotine pouches, and Philip Morris is
23:10doing very well at it. Over the last 10
23:14years, revenue has grown by more than
23:17half to about 36 billion in 2025, with
23:20a net profit of over 8 billion euros.
23:25The number of smokers worldwide is
23:27falling. The rise in revenue is
23:29therefore mainly due to the growing
23:32share of smoke-free nicotine products.
23:34They now account for almost half of
23:37total revenue. Nicotine pouches in
23:40particular are seeing explosive growth.
23:43And not just at Philip Morris. Global
23:46sales have increased almost tenfold in
23:505 years. From 4 to 37 billion pouches.
23:55>> But maybe you just want to make money.
23:57>> We are a commercial company. I
23:59understand your question very well. We
24:02are a commercial company, and obviously
24:04, uh, all sorts of things are involved
24:06in that. Uh, being profitable is one
24:09thing, but uh, investing in innovation
24:11is another. Employing people is another
24:14. Paying taxes is part of that too. But
24:18I think what we are mainly focused on
24:21now is taking our responsibility to
24:23ensure that those, uh, billion smokers
24:26of today have a, uh, realistic
24:28alternative.
24:32>> Buying nicotine pouches is not legally
24:34allowed, yet they are very easy to
24:37order online. Our students try it.
24:40>> Which ones are we buying? A bit of
24:42everything, right? A bit of everything.
24:45>> A tin with 20 pouches costs about € 4
24:48on average. Order placed, then.
24:52>> The illegal order from our students is
24:54also counted in the tobacco industry's
24:56revenue. Because according to the
24:59Federal Public Service for Health, the
25:01nicotine pouches circulating in Belgium
25:03were produced for a legal market.
25:05>> Actually, I am curious.
25:07>> Yes. You have to smell it. This one
25:13smells like bubble water.
25:15>> Wintergreen watermelon.
25:20>> But yeah, it arrived without any
25:22problems, right?
25:23>> Yes. In our country, nicotine pouches
25:29may not be traded. The same applies to
25:32the Netherlands or Germany. In France,
25:34even the possession and use of nicotine
25:37pouches is a punishable offense. In
25:39many other European countries, such as
25:42Sweden, the Czech Republic, or Croatia,
25:44they are legal. This makes it very easy
25:48to bypass the law.
25:51>> If people go buy them across the border
25:53or while traveling, then we haven't
25:55achieved much, have we, if we have such
25:57a patchwork of differences between
25:58national member states. And it's also a
26:01rather internationally organized
26:03industry, which is why Europe is
26:05naturally stronger at providing an
26:07answer here than individual member
26:09states.
26:09>> Liesbeth Sommen sits in the European
26:12Parliament for the CD&V. She works in
26:15the Public Health Committee on new
26:17European legislation. Because nicotine
26:20pouches currently fall outside of
26:22tobacco legislation since they contain
26:24no tobacco. So, for nicotine pouches,
26:27there are no rules regarding packaging,
26:29advertising, or excise duties. And that
26:32must change, she says.
26:34>> So we actually need to evolve from a
26:36tobacco directive to a nicotine
26:38directive. And that is what will be
26:40presented at the end of this year. And
26:42the European Parliament will decide
26:44whether it's a good idea to adjust that
26:47or not. If the tobacco industry wants
26:53to stop or reverse that tightening, it
26:55has to convince politicians, and so the
26:58lobbying begins. We are here at one of
27:00our buildings. Why? Because we have
27:03Philip Morris and we have Hill&Knowlton
27:06, an international consultancy company.
27:08Hans van Scharen is leading a group of
27:10interested people around the European
27:12quarter in Brussels on a so-called
27:14lobby tour. Van Scharen knows the
27:17European Parliament very well. He
27:19worked there for 10 years as an
27:21assistant to Green MEP Bart Staes. Now
27:24he focuses on lobbying work in Brussels
27:26.
27:26>> Tobacco industry is very much back.
27:29They were a bit in the corner. The
27:30lobby sector in Brussels is
27:32gigantically large. Between 25,000 and
27:3430,000 people are employed in that
27:35sector here in Brussels. Amounts
27:37between 2 and 3 billion [euros] per
27:39year circulate in it. That happens
27:41through appointments. They call up or
27:43send an email and say: "Can we come by
27:45sometime?" But sometimes it also
27:47happens literally behind the scenes, in
27:49the hallways, or people knocking on
27:51your office door saying, "Oh, can I
27:53hand you something?" Yes, those people
27:56are glib, charming, polite, and have
27:59seemingly solid arguments.
28:03>> We are a company that is fully
28:05committed to innovation and fully
28:07committed to sustainability. We have
28:11been investing for years in research
28:14and development, and we continue to do
28:16research, and we feel it is our moral
28:18responsibility to continue sharing
28:21those research insights with
28:22policymakers so that those policymakers
28:25can make informed and scientifically
28:27sound decisions.
28:31>> That sounds self-evident, but it is not
28:34. Because scientists and governments
28:37have known for decades that tobacco
28:39products are extremely harmful. As a
28:41result, meetings between politicians
28:43and the tobacco industry are strictly
28:46limited. That is clear from the World
28:49Health Organization's Framework
28:51Convention on Tobacco Control, which
28:54was signed and ratified by our country
28:56and European institutions in 2005. That
29:00treaty aims to limit the influence of
29:03the tobacco lobby.
29:04>> We are talking about an industry that
29:07causes 7 million deaths per year and
29:10that has clearly been deceiving
29:12everyone for decades. It has
29:14manipulated the science and twisted the
29:17information. So, shouldn't you be a bit
29:20careful in your direct dealings with
29:22such an industry and its lobbyists? I
29:24think so. The treaty calls for keeping
29:27contacts with the tobacco industry to a
29:30minimum. Meetings are only allowed if
29:32you need technical information to
29:34create better regulations. What
29:37substances are exactly in such a pouch,
29:40for example? It must not be about
29:42employment, fiscal matters, or even
29:45health policy. And any contact must, in
29:48any case, take place in complete
29:51transparency.
29:52>> If you do it anyway, you must ensure it
29:54happens in a transparent manner. That
29:56other actors are invited as well. In
29:59particular, health experts or NGOs, or
30:01people who do not come from the tobacco
30:03sector. And you must publish the
30:06minutes.
30:07>> Do our politicians follow these
30:09recommendations? The European
30:12Parliament's transparency register
30:14shows that most of our Flemish Members
30:16of the European Parliament do not talk
30:19to the tobacco industry at all.
30:21>> I do not meet with them. I see little
30:23added value in it, because their
30:25message, for instance about nicotine
30:28pouches being a good aid for quitting
30:30smoking or healthier than cigarettes. I
30:32am not open to that message, so my door
30:35is closed to them. But a few MEPs do
30:38open their doors. There are 13 Flemish
30:41ones. Five of them have sat down with
30:44Philip Morris a few times. Johan Van
30:46Overtveldt and Chris Van Dijk from N-VA
30:49. Tom Vandendriessche and Barbara Bonte
30:51from Vlaams Belang, and Hilde Vautmans
30:54from Renew. We head to the European
30:57Parliament. Today is the State of the
30:59Union. But a resolution is also being
31:02voted on, which includes the subject of
31:04nicotine pouches. We ask our
31:07politicians for an interview regarding
31:09this. Hilde Vautmans gives a few TV
31:11interviews, but she does not want to
31:14talk about her meetings with Philip
31:16Morris on camera.
31:17>> No, I'm not going to do that. I will
31:19answer you, but I am not going to mix
31:21things. I am fully occupied with the
31:23State of the Union. But it is just one
31:25quick question about your tobacco
31:27meeting with Philip Morris.
31:30>> A bit later, off camera, she does give
31:32us some explanation. The conversation
31:35with Philip Morris was about jobs in
31:37her region, Limburg, she says, and
31:39about the strict European and Belgian
31:41legislation. Johan van Overveld and
31:45Chris van Dijk also refuse to appear on
31:47camera to explain. Via WhatsApp, they
31:50even claim that tobacco is not within
31:52their policy domain. The N-VA party
31:56spokesperson added that the discussions
31:58were about fiscal or health policy. We
32:01are not given any details. Not any
32:04notes either. These politicians'
32:07contacts therefore go against the WHO's
32:10recommendations. Barbara Bonte of
32:13Vlaams Belang also had similar contacts
32:15, but she is willing to speak openly
32:18about them.
32:18>> Well, I speak with everyone. I am very
32:21open about that. I also think, of
32:23course, that you have to, well, hear
32:25their arguments somewhere, right? If
32:27only to know how they think as well.
32:29And sometimes they have good arguments.
32:31Yes. When it comes, for example, to
32:34those so-called substitutes for
32:36cigarettes, yes, they will do
32:37everything they can to show that: it's
32:40good for public health, it will help
32:42people quit smoking, it's good for
32:44investments and the economy, a
32:46win-win-win-win situation, and it's
32:48good for the treasury, and so on and so
32:50forth. Long live the Swedish model.
32:55While all attention is on the State of
32:58the Union, the parliament is also
33:00voting on a resolution regarding
33:02cardiovascular diseases. In it, there
33:04is more focus on nicotine pouches.
33:11Union. It would be the first time they
33:15are mentioned in a European Parliament
33:17text. The parliament is asking to
33:21include nicotine pouches in the next
33:23tobacco directive.
33:24>> An important political moment.
33:27>> Certainly, because the European
33:29Commission is watching very closely
33:31what we do here. The European
33:32Parliament is responsible for that
33:35product directive. And so, if we were
33:38against it the moment the commission
33:40proposes it, then it naturally cannot
33:43get through that parliament. So, here
33:45the parliament will give a clear signal
33:48. Do we want that legislation to be
33:50adjusted or not?
33:51>> The vote is closed and it is adopted.
33:55>> The resolution is adopted. Almost
33:58everyone votes in favor. But Vlaams
34:01Belang abstains.
34:02>> We abstained because it also touches on
34:05prevention. That is, of course,
34:07primarily a competence of the member
34:09states. And that is the reason why we
34:12abstained.
34:12>> The tobacco industry's arguments do
34:15find a hearing with Vlaams Belang.
34:19>> I think that cigarettes should be
34:21regulated or treated differently than,
34:24for example, those nicotine pouches,
34:26which are actually less harmful. I'm
34:28not going to say they are harmless, but
34:31that they are less harmful. Than
34:33cigarettes, of course. Yes. If you look
34:36at all the substances you're taking in,
34:38that is, of course, a—well, quite a
34:40big difference. So I find that, in that
34:42resolution, there is, um, too little
34:45differentiation being made.
34:49>> There was also political lobbying
34:51during the recent federal government
34:53budget negotiations. Deputy Prime
34:56Minister David Clarinval of the MR is
34:58advocating for the legalization of
35:01nicotine pouches and other smoke-free
35:03products. Thanks to a collaboration
35:06with Knack, we were able to get our
35:08hands on the documents that the MR
35:10brought to the negotiating table. And
35:12those appear to have been drafted by
35:15Philip Morris itself. In the metadata,
35:18we find two names. Nicolas Stenier and
35:22Tom Janses. LinkedIn tells us that they
35:26are both external affairs managers at
35:28Philip Morris. No problem, they say
35:31there. All policymakers who are
35:35interested in this issue, we provide
35:37them with the information that is
35:39needed about the products, but also
35:41about the science and the impact.
35:45>> Clarinval's office sees no issue with
35:48this. Yes, we talk to the sector. They
35:51have the expertise to advise us.
35:53That’s what they tell us. In this way
35:56, the WHO's recommendations are being
35:58ignored once again. I am 15 and I’ve
36:00been vaping for 2 and a half years. Big
36:03business, isn't it?
36:04>> The lobby is also trying to influence
36:07the general public. Late last year, VRT
36:09received an offer to co-produce and
36:12broadcast the documentary "Just No
36:14Reason." It’s about illegal vapes and
36:17is offered by the communication agency
36:20Mind the View from Antwerp. In the
36:22documentary, Professor Philip Lardon,
36:24among others, is interviewed. It’s an
36:27eye-opener, I must say.
36:28>> The authority in tobacco prevention.
36:31You saw him here earlier. VRT did not
36:34accept the offer because Pano had
36:37previously made a critical report about
36:40vapes. The makers also went to talk to
36:43VTM. They wanted to work on it
36:45editorially. But Mind the View wasn't
36:48interested in that. Still, the film was
36:51completed. It appeared on YouTube in
36:53the spring. So, Mind the View found
36:56money elsewhere to make the report. We
36:59hear from a good source that it might
37:01have come from the tobacco industry.
37:04Call with David.
37:06>> We are calling David Akke, one of the
37:08creators of the documentary. Was BAT,
37:11British American Tobacco, indeed the
37:13commissioner or financier of that
37:16documentary?
37:17>> Together with journalist Camille
37:19Vermijlen from the weekly magazine
37:21Knack, we were able to uncover that
37:22there is money from the tobacco
37:24industry involved.
37:25>> The information we received suggests it
37:27concerns an amount in the neighborhood
37:29of € 40,000. Akke does not want to
37:33give an on-the-record interview, but
37:35our information is correct. What we
37:38also know is that the FOT public health
37:41department has launched an
37:42investigation and that those
37:44interviewed in the report were informed
37:47. Professor Lardon is shocked.
37:50>> I actually found it extremely upsetting
37:52that a documentary I had contributed to
37:54in good faith was sponsored by a
37:56tobacco giant. I found it extremely
37:59upsetting. Because, of course, I never
38:01want to be associated with the tobacco
38:03industry in any way. On the contrary,
38:06even if they want to sponsor a report
38:08on illegal vapes, they are obviously
38:11doing it to sanitize the image of their
38:13own legal, addictive nicotine products.
38:16While those actually come with an
38:18unimaginable amount of problems as well
38:20. Especially among young people. But I
38:23didn't know. I was only informed about
38:25it afterwards. I immediately asked the
38:27documentary makers to take everything
38:29offline. They have done so.
38:32>> In the conversation with the VRT, the
38:34makers never mentioned that British
38:36American Tobacco would be involved in
38:38the production. Nor was it mentioned to
38:42the interviewees in the report that we
38:44spoke to. We asked British American
38:48Tobacco if they paid Mindiew for the
38:50documentary. There is no response. That
38:57is the power of the tobacco industry,
38:59isn't it. I have even had offers to
39:02come to their headquarters in the US to
39:04see how well-intentioned they all are.
39:07Everything would be paid for. Yeah, I'm
39:10not doing that. I don't want that
39:12connection.
39:13>> Are nicotine pouches the cigarettes of
39:16today, experts wonder. only to find out
39:19in 30 years that we better hadn't
39:21started it. I think Swedish population
39:46to be nicotine users, 30%of them. I'm
39:50talking about nicotinism because
39:52smoking is on its way out. Stupid, not
40:00good, and expensive and addictive. Yes,
40:06I do think about that, too. people to
40:14access to
40:20>> I find it more normal than someone who
40:22smokes or vapes or something; this is
40:25like, yeah I don't know, a new way of
40:27smoking or something.
40:29>> It's really normalized, but it's
40:31actually not normal. Do you think there
40:34is enough awareness about that?
40:36>> No.
40:37>> Regarding nicotine?
40:38>> No. You have to have so much nicotine
40:40in your body. That will have had bad
40:42effects regardless. If you really do it
40:44for a long time, you can get damage to
40:46your brain. That is perhaps what I am
40:48most worried about. It is better to
40:51just quit now. Because the longer you
40:53stick with it, the harder it will be.
40:56>> I hope that in 30 years I am still not
40:58involved with those nicotine pouches.
41:00>> But every time I drive past the corner
41:03store, then or or, well, anyway.
41:05>> if you don't do that then it's boring
41:08or you're not fun. And that is so weird
41:11because why? That's unhealthy, right?

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