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OJ Simpson Trial - March 28th, 1995 - Part 2 — Transcript

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0:00thank you could this be marked people 64
0:09B4 64
0:17C so what object would you be facing
0:20when you're PR placing the
0:24buzzer that seems to be that big uh beam
0:28the big cement beam
0:30okay from what I remember pardon from
0:33what I remember facing that
0:36direction at the time that you were
0:38ringing the bell sir can you tell
0:40us whether you could see any lights on
0:42in the
0:43house uh there was one light on
0:47upstairs could you see any lights on
0:49downstairs uh no I
0:51couldn't did it appear to be dark
0:54downstairs
0:55yes
0:57sustain phras question
1:00how did it appear downstairs in the
1:02house it appeared to be no lights
1:18on need to get the um
1:50I'm show you what's been marked
1:51previously people's uh 148
2:27all right you indicated before we broke
2:29that you called
2:30um your boss's pager and that was at
2:33about 10:43 yes and after you called
2:36your boss's pager what did you
2:41do
2:43uh well after I paged them like I said I
2:45got back out of the car and continued to
2:48buzz the intercom a couple more
2:51times uh still there was no
2:55answer so I uh that's when I got back
2:58into the car and and place another phone
3:01call okay so after you buzzed a couple
3:03more times got no answer when you got
3:05into the car but she's restating his
3:08testimony form that question sorry OB
3:10your honor may we approach sustained I'd
3:14like to approach
3:17sustained did you call your boss again
3:20when you got back in the
3:24car not him no who did you call I called
3:28my mom why to get a phone number from
3:32her and why' you do
3:34that uh because I wasn't sure if the
3:36page went through so I wanted to try his
3:39uh home phone because sometimes he
3:41doesn't answer his uh business phone
3:43after a certain certain
3:46time and what phone number were you
3:48trying to get from your mother his home
3:50phone his home phone number your boss's
3:53home phone number
3:55yes and look at the bill in front of you
3:58if you would sir
4:00direct your attention
4:08to the next call call in time placed at
4:11uh 10:46 and 30 seconds do you recognize
4:15the phone number shown here yes I do and
4:17whose phone number is that that is my
4:21father's which my mom was at which is
4:24where your mom was yeah
4:27okay and did you reach your mother when
4:29you dialed that that phone number yes I
4:31did and you had a conversation with or
4:33did you yes I
4:39did and do you recall exactly how long
4:42that phone call lasted when you spoke to
4:44her exactly how long no about how long
4:47do you think it lasted 2 three minutes
4:50would refresh your recollection as to
4:51the precise amount of time if you were
4:53to look at the uh phone bill indicating
4:56the duration of the call yes
4:59I'm pointing out uh to the witness the
5:02phone call he has just described on the
5:05bill and it indicates under duration 2
5:08minutes and 20 seconds does that refresh
5:09your recollection sir yes it does and is
5:12that about how long that phone call was
5:15yes now did you get some information
5:17from your mother yes I did she uh she
5:21got the phone number for me
5:24okay and after she got the phone number
5:26for you what did you
5:28do uh
5:30at that time I don't remember if I got
5:32out and buzzed one more time or not but
5:35I know it was just a
5:37few just a few seconds after that I
5:40called uh I called his
5:43house when you say his house who's that
5:45Dale St John my boss and is there a
5:49phone call indicated on that particular
5:53phone bill in front of you people's 148
5:55that
5:56reflects a call made to your boss
6:00yes and is that the call place do you
6:04first of all you locate the phone number
6:06sir yeah and you recognize that phone
6:09number as as your boss's uh home phone
6:12yes I do and was that call placed at
6:1610497 yes okay when you called him at
6:2210497 was Dale St John at home no he
6:26wasn't did you get any answer no
6:33did you get an answering machine or
6:35anything nothing no answer at all
6:40no after you called your boss at home
6:43and got no answer what did you do
6:46next uh I stepped back out of the car
6:49and uh proceeded to ring the the buzzer
6:51some more
6:52times still got no answer okay how many
6:57more times did you ring the buzzer at
6:58that point sir
7:01uh I don't know two or
7:05three two or three times
7:20yeah all right when you rang the buzzer
7:23again a couple more times and got no
7:25answer what happened
7:27next uh the next thing I remembered was
7:29was hearing the car phone uh ring inside
7:33the
7:34car and uh got back in and pick up the
7:37phone it was it was Dale St John
7:41okay now do you rece do you see on the
7:44uh phone bill in front of you
7:50sir a call at 10:52 and 17
7:55seconds uh yes I do okay and you
7:58indicated before you don't know the
7:59phone number of your what your limo was
8:02no never called it okay but you surmised
8:05earlier that that was the number
8:06indicated at this phone call at
8:0910527
8:14yes and at 10:52 and 17 seconds in the
8:19evening sir did you speak to your boss
8:21in the on the car phone in the stretch
8:24limo yes I did
8:35when you got out to ring the buzzer just
8:36before you got that call was your
8:38driver's door open or closed it was open
8:42and on previous on the two previous
8:44occasions when you indicated that you
8:46got out of the limo to ring the bell was
8:47the driver's door open or closed it was
8:50open I left it open when you sat down at
8:5210:52 in 17 seconds to speak to your
8:55boss Dale St John did you leave the car
8:58the driver's door open or
9:01closed from what I remember
9:04open as you sat in the car were you
9:07seated which way were you
9:10facing I was facing uh looking down the
9:15driveway towards the
9:18house so you were were you facing in
9:20through the gate
9:22yes and as you spoke uh to Dale St John
9:26on the telephone were you looking at the
9:28driveway area
9:31uh most of the time
9:33yeah I might have looked at the
9:35dashboard or something here or
9:51there can you tell us what the lighting
9:53was like in the uh driveway area that
9:55you were able to
9:57see uh the light Li in it wasn't it
10:01wasn't that bright it didn't offer much
10:03light at all I remember a light on the
10:07in the entrance way by the front
10:09door and
10:13uh from what I remember I think there
10:15was a light above the garage that didn't
10:17offer much
10:19light I'm going to show you a diagram
10:22that you previously looked at people 66
10:24I'm going ask you to indicate for us on
10:26this diagram
10:44you can step down take a
10:48pointer from where you were seated sir
10:50at the Ashford
10:52gate were you what part of the driveway
10:55leading out to Rockingham were you able
10:57to see if any
11:07wasn't I couldn't see beyond this at all
11:10so the record the witness is pointing to
11:13um if you drew a a diagonal line from
11:16the north west west corner of the garage
11:21uh across the driveway he couldn't see
11:24past or down the rocking he could not
11:26see south of that point
11:29we're going to do it on the Elmo in a
11:32minute and what was the light what was
11:35the lighting like for the balance of the
11:37driveway that you could
11:39see uh it wasn't very bright at all
11:43there was some lighting but it uh it was
11:47you know it wasn't a very bright light
11:48like I said there was uh the brightest
11:51light came from this area from the
11:53entrance area MH and for the record the
11:56witness was indicating the indicating
11:58the entrance area when he said this this
12:02area I also got an aha as an
12:05answer I'm sorry I said I ALS I also got
12:08an uh-huh as an answer uhhuh from the
12:10witness yes okay thank you is that what
12:13you yes you can take the take the
12:16witness answer
12:35all right Miss Clark do we need the uh
12:37phone
12:38record okay
13:10all right Mr Park if you would direct
13:13the pointer again to
13:16indicate what part of the driveway that
13:19boundary line that you indicated to us
13:20before after which you couldn't see
13:21anything indicate to us uh on
13:25this have the pointer draw the line to
13:28indicate what was the point at which
13:30your visibility
13:33ended it would have been down like you
13:36said at the uh northwest corner of the
13:41garage and if you go in a diagonal line
13:44across to the lawn
13:48area no I don't believe it's not I just
13:51no yeah
14:01same spot where you
14:03started but the line would have been
14:06more diagonally it would have curved
14:08more towards the lawn it wasn't straight
14:13across yes yes should it keep going like
14:16that
14:20yeah just about to there all
14:27right and you indicated that there was
14:29some light where could you
14:32direct uh where the word entrance is of
14:36the the the house yeah in and where in
14:39relationship to the word
14:41entrance
14:43uh just
14:46about this is hard to do when you're not
14:48doing it yourself
14:50here
14:53um just about that square patio area
15:00tell tell tell it what direction to go
15:02uh that whole square patio would be a
15:06from from each corner to corner would be
15:08a circle area I would say a circle
15:11within that square yes
15:19okay all right is that correct sir yes
15:22all
15:23right people's
15:30people 66d R
15:3966d all right now as you were
15:43seated in the limousine speaking to your
15:54boss did you did you say something to
15:56your boss
15:59yeah I told him uh that I thought nobody
16:02was home and then what happened did he
16:05respond to you yes did he tell you to do
16:10something well he he asked me
16:17to okay what' your boss tell you uh well
16:21first he told me he said he said OJ's
16:24usually running a little late so hang
16:27out until about 11:15 if he's not there
16:30by then go ahead and come on home uh he
16:33also asked if uh because I told him
16:35there was no lights on downstairs he
16:37asked me to look at a pantry
16:40area uh what what he called a pantry
16:43area where there was a what resembled
16:46some
16:47sunroofs are uh skylighting uh towards
16:51the garage area and he asked me if uh
16:55there was any uh lights on in there he
16:58said he used he watches TV in there now
17:01can you locate the area that he was
17:02directing you to look at on this
17:12diagram
17:15uh just straight down from the
17:20circle right in that area on the roof I
17:23I'm pretty sure
17:25it's hard to tell with this kind of a
17:29okay you think that was the area it
17:31would have been somewhere around there
17:33all
17:35right and did you do what he asked you
17:37to do did you look yes and did you see
17:40any lights on in that area no I
17:43didn't and did you tell him so yes I
17:50did now the you see the area designated
17:53as
17:54playyard yes that area was that were you
17:57able to see it how is it lit it's very
18:05dark at some point during your phone
18:08conversation with Dale St John did
18:11something attract your
18:12attention yes a uh white
18:15male walked from behind the house area
18:19on a
18:21pathway and uh he had a flashlight in
18:24his hand and he stopped he stopped
18:27before he got to the driveway okay so I
18:30I told Dale that you know somebody's
18:32home all right
18:34now at that particular point in time had
18:36you already looked at the at the house
18:40at the area that was directed you were
18:41directed to look at by Dale St John to
18:44see if there were any lights yes and
18:47after you saw that there were no lights
18:48was it after that point that you saw
18:50this white male yes it was and that
18:54person that you're describing have you
18:56since learned what his name is yes and
18:58what is his name uh KO can you show us
19:03on the diagram direct the pointer to
19:05where you saw him on the side yard uh
19:10right there where the arrow was where
19:11the path where the path comes out from
19:13behind the house uh he came out to just
19:16about the driveway right there was he on
19:19the driveway or was he on no he was he
19:21was off a couple feet okay tell the
19:25pointer where to go just right right
19:27there
19:30okay was he on the grass or on the path
19:33I couldn't see you couldn't tell
19:37no so is that the general location where
19:39he was
19:41yes could you tell what kind of
19:43flashlight he
19:46had at that time no okay what was he
19:49doing when you saw
19:51him uh he was just standing there from
19:54from what I
19:55observed could you tell where he was
19:57looking or what he was doing
20:00uh he he looked at
20:02me and uh and then he just he he t uh
20:06started
20:07to look you know in the area of the
20:10Rockingham
20:13driveway now when he was looking at you
20:16where were you I was inside the car on
20:19the phone stop talking to your boss yes
20:23how long now at the same time that you
20:24saw K Kalin in the side yard did you see
20:27anything else yes I saw a uh a figure
20:31come down well not come down but I saw a
20:35figure come into the uh entrance way of
20:38the house just about where the where the
20:41driveway starts can you show us on this
20:44uh diagram where you first saw that
20:52person
20:56um
20:57just if you go where the circle
21:00is and go straight back no the other
21:06way uh little bit
21:09farther it was about
21:13there around that
21:17area Okay roughly that area yeah
21:24okay can you describe the person that
21:26you saw that that was that the first
21:28point at which you saw the
21:30person yes okay can you describe what he
21:33looked like what that person looked like
21:35ex form of that
21:38question uh 6 foot 200 lb 6 foot 200 lb
21:43all dark
21:46clothing and could you tell anything
21:49else about this person no could you tell
21:52whether the person was Caucasian or
21:55African-American uh black okay
22:00and how in relationship to when you saw
22:03K Kalin when did you first see this
22:08person it was just it was almost
22:10simultaneously it was seconds after I
22:13saw
22:16him and this uh 6' 200b African-American
22:20person in all dark clothing was he
22:22moving was it was this person moving
22:24quickly or
22:26slowly not quickly not
22:29slowly uh a good paac walk it seemed to
22:33be and moving in what direction sir into
22:37the house or towards the house did you
22:39form an opinion as to whether this was a
22:41male or female
22:46no and when you saw that person did did
22:49did that person walk into the
22:52entrance yes after that person walked
22:55into the
22:56entrance what did you do
23:00I then uh proceeded
23:03to you know well I I was still talking
23:06to Dale at the same time I said
23:07somebody's here he said fine you know
23:10finish the job take them to the airport
23:12and I'll see you tomorrow or whatever
23:16uh I hung up the phone and I still
23:18waited
23:20another it was about another 30 seconds
23:23or so before I got out of the car but
23:25before that I was still waiting for
23:26somebody to open the gate I figured
23:27somebody was going to come up open the
23:28gate for me okay uh they still didn't
23:32how long after you saw the 6' 200 lb uh
23:36person in all dark clothing go into the
23:38house did you continue to talk to Dale
23:40St
23:41John oh it was just
23:45uh anywhere between 10 to 30 seconds it
23:49wasn't very
23:52long so on the phone bill in front of
23:54you
23:56sir and that last call indicates uh 1052
24:00and 17 seconds does it indicate how long
24:03the phone call was for the duration of
24:07of the
24:08call uh yes 2 minutes and 55 seconds
24:12okay and does that comport with your
24:14memory of the length of the phone call
24:17yes so you would have hung up with him
24:19at 10:55 and 12
24:22seconds
24:24yes and uh it was within the last 10 to
24:2830 seconds of that call at 105 of of
24:30ending that call at 1055 that you saw
24:32this 6'2 200lb person go into the uh
24:36entrance
24:42yes after you hung up with Dale St John
24:45you said you sat for another 30 seconds
24:47or so yes I why was that this is leading
24:50suggest we cover this that was
24:52foundational your
24:54honor he's
24:57sustain after
24:59you you indicated that you sat for
25:01another 30 seconds why did you sit for
25:03another 30 seconds in your car after you
25:05hung up because I was waiting for the
25:06gate to be open I figured somebody's
25:09home they saw me they're going to let me
25:13in and did uh K Kalin come over to let
25:16you in no he
25:18didn't and did the six foot uh 200 lb
25:21person dressed in all dark clothing come
25:23to let you in no and after 30 seconds
25:26what did you do uh that's when I got
25:29back up and out of the car and rang the
25:33intercom this time there was an
25:35answer
25:37uh which was Mr Simpson he told me that
25:41uh that he overslept and uh he just got
25:44all the shower and he'd be down in a
25:45minute okay how many times did you have
25:47to ring the buzzer this time before it
25:49was
25:50answered for question how many times did
25:53you have to bring
25:54over you can answer the question
25:58can you repeat it how many times did you
26:00have to ring the buzzer this time before
26:02it was answered oh it was just he
26:05answered it pretty much
26:07immediately as soon as you
26:09rang
26:27yes and when he said to
26:47you and when uh you heard the voice say
26:50to
26:52you sorry I overslept did you recognize
26:55that voice yes I did over that question
27:00is
27:01answer and who's
27:03over and whose voice was it uh Mr
27:09Simpsons and what what did you say he
27:12said to you that he
27:16over he overslept he just got out the
27:19shower and he'd be down a
27:25minute now had you ever heard Mr
27:27Simpson's voice before
27:28before
27:30yes how how did you heard it before on
27:33TV commentary Sports is that how you
27:37recognized it yes could you tell when
27:40you saw that 6 foot uh 200lb person walk
27:43into the entrance could you tell whether
27:47that person was coming from the
27:48Rockingham driveway or from the area of
27:51the garage from the south pathway no I
27:54couldn't
27:59could you tell whether that person had
28:00anything in his hand in their hands
28:06no when that person walked into the
28:09entrance of the
28:12house did you notice whether there was
28:14any change in the lighting in the
28:16house uh some lights came on downstairs
28:18yes and was that immediately after the
28:21person entered the
28:22house
28:24sustain how how long after that person
28:27entered the house the front entrance did
28:30the lights go on downstairs just
28:38seconds could you tell which lights went
28:42on no I
28:45just I just saw you know from the from
28:49the windows and the curtains they
28:50illuminated I couldn't tell you where
28:51the lights came from
28:56now after after that 6' 200lb person
29:00went into the house did you happen to
29:03notice where um Mr Kalin
29:07was uh from what I remember he was still
29:09standing on the
29:13sidewalk did he acknowledge you in any
29:15way after that person went into the
29:19house uh from what I remember he kind of
29:22gave me a hand gesture letting me know
29:24he's
29:25there and that was after the 6ot person
29:28went into the
29:32house I'm pretty sure
29:44yes that person that you saw go into the
29:46house did he look like someone you
29:50recognize no did you look like Mr
29:54Simpson question ask oh
29:58I couldn't tell who it was did it appear
30:00to be the same size as Mr
30:03Simpson
30:06yes same height and weight that's over
30:11around
30:21there was Mr Kalin ever on the
30:24driveway at the same time as the six
30:27foot
30:28200 pound person that went into the
30:32house uh not that I remember
30:35now after you spoke to Mr Simpson on
30:39strike
30:42that how long after you saw the 6' 200b
30:47person go into the house did you speak
30:50to Mr Simpson on the
30:52intercom sustain
30:58I'm sorry I'm going to overwhel that you
31:01can answer the question uh it had to
31:03different question on lights had to been
31:05anywhere between 30 seconds to a
31:12minute and after you spoke to Mr Simpson
31:15on the intercom what happened
31:20next I got back into the car and waited
31:24another 20 30 seconds and uh before
31:29uh Mr kin came over and opened the
31:39gate okay did you
31:49um after you spoke to Mr Simpson you got
31:51back in the car yes I
31:54did and how long after that did Mr K
31:58come over to the
31:59gate 20 or 30
32:04seconds and did he open the gate for
32:07you from what I remember
32:12yes and when we're indicating Mr Simpson
32:15sir is that somebody you see in court
32:16today yes it is can you please Point him
32:19out he's over here by Mr
32:25Shapiro is that good enough good enough
32:28thank you
32:46okay I ask the defant I ask the court to
32:48ask the defendant to stand for a moment
32:50please
32:58you seen the defendant Mr Park yes can
33:01you tell us if that appears to be the
33:02size of the person that you saw enter
33:04the front entrance of the house at
33:08Rockingham yes around the around the
33:16size all right did you while you were
33:18speaking to Mr Simpson did you were you
33:20paying attention to what Mr kin was
33:24doing well I was on the intercom with
33:26him right no
33:30so did you see what movements Mr Kalin
33:32made or where he went or what he did
33:33while you were speaking to the defendant
33:35no I
33:37didn't did you pull into the driveway
33:39after Mr kin opened the gate yes I
33:46did and what happened
33:50next I drove
33:52in
33:54uh pulled the
33:56car into the driveway with my driver's
34:01window parallel with his front
34:03door
34:05uh popped the trunk and uh got out of
34:08the
34:09car okay and what happened
34:13next at that time uh Mr kin came over to
34:18me
34:19and said a few things like is Mr Simpson
34:22running late or
34:26uh Su St he asked you a
34:30question I couldn't remember if it was a
34:32question or
34:33not uh I I don't hold on next
34:38question do you remember if he asked you
34:40a
34:42question yeah he asked me if uh if I
34:45felt an earthquake
34:48right sustain sustain what it's your say
34:59and Mr Park let me ask you just to
35:01listen carefully to the question answer
35:03only the question that's being asked of
35:04you all right thank you sir that's
35:07CL can you uh tell us sir when you first
35:09pulled up to the up into the driveway
35:12where did you
35:13park I parked with my driver side window
35:17parallel with
35:18the front door of the
35:22residence did you notice uh the front
35:24door area when you did that yes and what
35:27what did you see uh the front door was
35:31open and there were uh a couple of bags
35:34on the
35:35porch do you remember what kind of bags
35:37were on the porch uh black duffel bags
35:40can you show us with your hands how big
35:42they
35:43were
35:45uh about this size for the 36 in yeah
35:51for the record the witness has held up
35:52his hands what appears to be uh 36 in in
35:55length and how high
36:00uh foot and a half 2
36:04feet and the witness so gestured with
36:06his hands it
36:10appears how far how far open was the
36:13front door when you first pulled up to
36:14the entrance uh that I don't
36:17remember and the uh duffel bags that you
36:20saw could you tell whether they were
36:21zipped or unzipped one was unzipped
36:30at that
36:32point was the defendant outside with
36:37you when you first pulled up no he
36:45wasn't after you popped the uh trunk did
36:48you get out of the car yes I did and did
36:51you have a conversation with Mr kin
36:53about an earthquake yes he asked me if I
36:56felt one yes
36:59I'd like to approach you honor all right
37:02with Council and the court board
37:19please all right thank you Council thank
37:22you this CL
37:35I think we're discussing Mr kin thank
37:37you honor all right when you first
37:40pulled into the
37:42uh drive when he got out of the car did
37:44you have a conversation with Mr
37:47Kalin yes and did he ask you a question
37:52yes he did what did he ask
37:54you uh he asked me if I felt an
37:58earthquake did you feel one no I
38:02didn't did you have some further
38:03conversation with him about that
38:06subject yes I did how did he appear to
38:09you his demeanor when he was discussing
38:11that subject of the
38:17earthquake
38:20his like I said before I've never met
38:23this guy so I he seemed normal to me did
38:27he was he excited calm nonchalant
38:35hyper which
38:37oneing I'm asking to pick one so I won't
38:39be
38:40leading one of the
38:43above no I don't think it works quite
38:45that
38:47way if if anything you seem concerned
38:51concerned yeah all
38:54right and what happened after you had
38:56that convers did he then ask you for
38:59something not at that point no all right
39:02what happened next uh he asked me where
39:04I drove up from okay uh
39:08he referred to something about you know
39:11his his his OJ running late or something
39:15like in that sense uh okay that was
39:18about it okay and then what
39:21happened uh I was still waiting for the
39:24defendant to come out uh
39:29he uh Mr Kalin walked to the corner of
39:33the garage is that an area you can show
39:36us on the diagram that's been marked as
39:37people
39:3866
39:40e okay this one will be marked e 66 e
39:43your honor
39:47right can you please direct the pointer
39:50yes it would be
39:52the opposite side of where the white
39:55lines drawn
39:58down a little farther to that corner
40:00right around there a little farther out
40:02on onto the driveway though okay no back
40:05down back down there you go uh right
40:08there all right could we do a KK
40:13there or just
40:16one that's
40:20fine okay and what did he do when he got
40:22to that corner of the
40:24garage at that point he stopped and I
40:27was over towards the front walkway by
40:30the entrance and uh I was petting the
40:33dog what kind of dog was that I think it
40:36was a Chow from what I remember what
40:39color was it black did that dog bark at
40:42you at all no friendly yeah and while
40:45you were petting the dog what was Mr kin
40:48doing uh he started to call the dog he
40:51was calling the dog over but the dog was
40:53liking the attention so he wasn't going
40:55anywhere
40:57so the dog stayed with you did he most
41:00of the time yeah okay then what
41:02happened uh I think he yelled at the dog
41:05a little louder and it started to go
41:08over towards him and I was just waiting
41:10at that point I didn't watch him if he
41:11walked around or not okay so you didn't
41:14did you try to put did you start to put
41:16the bags in the car either in the trunk
41:18or in the passenger seat at any any
41:20point then no I
41:21didn't why
41:24not because I was waiting for m Mr
41:27Simpson to come
41:28down I didn't even know if he wanted to
41:30take those
41:31bags okay what happened
41:36next uh at about that time Mr Simpson
41:40came out of the
41:53house all right
41:58can you remember what he was wearing
42:01when the defendant came out of the house
42:03uh when he came out of the house
42:05he had some stonewashed jeans and a
42:09white colored shirt and uh he had a uh a
42:15black coat with him I don't remember if
42:17he was wearing it or or carrying
42:25it what happened next
42:28uh he carried down a uh what looked like
42:31a Gucci bag with him that folded in half
42:34seemed to be some type of garment
42:37bag he uh he came out and set that on
42:40the ground next to the bags from what I
42:42remember and uh from there I picked it
42:45up and and put that into the
42:47trunk at that time I seem to remember he
42:50walked over to the
42:52cars be back up for a minute can you
42:56tell us sir approximately how
43:00long it was between the time you saw the
43:036ot 200 lb person dressed in all dark
43:09clothing go into the
43:12house and the time you saw Mr Simpson
43:15come out the front
43:17entrance it was somewhere around five
43:20and six
43:25minutes and when when you had the
43:27conversation with KO uh at the front
43:30entrance sir did you happen to notice
43:31whether he had anything in his
43:33hands yeah he had a
43:35flashlight could you tell whether the
43:37beam was dim or
43:38strong it was pretty dim it was a small
43:42light when Mr Simpson did come out of
43:45the house sir did you have a
43:46conversation with
43:48him did I did you not that I remember
43:53now he didn't say anything to you
43:59not that I
44:00remember and when the defendant came out
44:03where was
44:04KO uh he was out in the front with me on
44:07the
44:10driveway okay was he standing next to
44:13you or was he walking can you tell
44:15us I don't
44:17remember I know he was out in the area I
44:21don't know if he was standing right
44:23there was he coming back from the garage
44:25area he might have been okay I remember
44:27him saying you know High juice or
44:29something like that what happened next
44:34uh at that time I put I put the Gucci
44:37bag into the trunk and
44:42uh from from what I remember Mr Simpson
44:45walked over to the cars what he was
44:48doing grabbing I don't know uh when you
44:51say over to the cars what direction did
44:53you see him walk in
44:57uh towards the Rockingham gate could you
45:00see if he went out through the
45:01Rockingham gate or not
45:05no you just saw him walk in that
45:07direction
45:08yes did you
45:10happen the Gucci the garment bag that
45:13you're describing as a Gucci
45:16bag the defendant did not put that in
45:18the car himself no I did or where did
45:24where did you see him do with it when he
45:26brought it downstairs what did he do
45:28with that garment bag from what I
45:30remember he either set it down near the
45:32other bags or he handed it to
45:36me and after you put that bag in the
45:40trunk where did the defendant
45:44go towards the Rockingham gate or in
45:48that
45:50area what happened
45:53next uh
45:57well we started putting bags into the uh
45:59the car they he walked over and uh from
46:02what I remember grabbed the uh the golf
46:04clubs who did that Mr Simpson okay which
46:09did you see him carrying golf clubs with
46:13him you saw Mr Simpson with golf clubs
46:17well I saw him hand them to KO and where
46:20was that that you saw him hand golf
46:21clubs to KO just towards the front of
46:24the
46:25limousine and was that after he had gone
46:28down uh in the direction of the
46:30Rockingham gate yes and what did KO do
46:33with the golf bag uh he put them in the
46:42trunk then what
46:46happened after that
46:49uh Mr Simpson went into the house a few
46:53times two or three times he was coming
46:55in and out uh did you ever see him bring
46:58any more bags
46:59out of the house yes
47:02no was the garment bag the only bag that
47:06he brought out from what I remember yes
47:09and that was was that the first time
47:10that he came out of the house that he
47:12brought that bag with
47:14him I think
47:17so
47:19oh is that
47:24over I can't remember if it was the
47:26first or the second um well how many
47:30bags did the defendant bring out of the
47:31house with him just one the garment bag
47:34yes all
47:35right after that point how many times
47:38did you see him go in and out of the
47:40house two or three okay and did any more
47:43bags come out with him did he bring any
47:45more bags out with him on those
47:47occasions
47:49no were you able to see what he was
47:51doing inside the house when he went back
47:52in no
48:01uh you indicated earlier that at some
48:03point you saw the defendant walk down in
48:06the direction of the Rockingham
48:08gate
48:10yes after which you saw I think you said
48:13you saw him come back with golf clubs is
48:14that
48:18right I sustain that objection I think
48:20it mistes the
48:22evidence phras the question
48:25okay you said you
48:27saw the defendant go down towards the
48:30Rockingham gate at some
48:32point yes I did okay when he did you see
48:36him after he went down towards the
48:37Rockingham
48:40gate yes okay did he have anything in
48:43his hands at that point the golf clubs
48:46okay and those were the golf clubs he
48:48gave to KO yes after that did you see
48:52him go back into the after going in and
48:54out of the house a couple times did you
48:55ever see him go back down to the
48:57Rockingham gate in that not to the gate
48:59but in that direction yes how many
49:03times uh after he got the golf clubs yes
49:07once or twice did you see what if
49:10anything he brought back with
49:12him at at on either of the either that
49:15once or twice that he went back in the
49:16direction of the Rockingham gate after
49:18he'd gotten the golf clubs not that I
49:21remember
49:25now is it that you don't remember or
49:28that he didn't have anything with him
49:29when he came back I don't
49:36remember all right after the after K put
49:39the golf clubs into the
49:42trunk uh did something ever occur with
49:45the duffel bag that you saw in the uh
49:47front entrance when you first pulled up
49:50yes as Mr Simpson was walking by one of
49:53the times I asked him where he'd like
49:55those bags uh in the trunk or inside the
49:58car uh he asked me to put him inside the
50:02car and did you do that sir yes I
50:10did did you ever I'll resume your
50:13conversation with KO about the noises
50:16the
50:18earthquake yes
50:20uh he came back and asked me if I uh if
50:24I had a
50:25flashlight um uh which I went to the car
50:28to check and as I was checking I I
50:31remember him saying that uh you know uh
50:34we thought he thought he had we had an
50:36earthquake uh he he talked about a
50:39picture moving on his wall uh that he
50:42heard some thumps and uh that he wanted
50:45a flashlight so he can to go check it
50:47out and
50:50uh as we were talking about that I think
50:53he was somewhere he was referring to the
50:55earthquake Mr Simpson uh overheard
50:59us uh from what I remember and he said
51:02as a question he said oh we had an
51:06earthquake as he was walking back into
51:08the
51:09house and then uh did he have a
51:11conversation with Mr
51:15kin at that time uh I don't
51:20remember did he walk into the house
51:23after uh making that remark to you oh we
51:25had an earthquake
51:28who Mr Simpson yes and what did K Kalin
51:32do after Mr Simpson walked into the
51:35house oh I told him I didn't have a
51:37flashlight and uh from there on out I
51:41don't I don't remember where he went I
51:42don't know if he went into the house or
51:45not at that time did Mr Simpson come
51:48back out of the
51:50house
51:52yes what happened
51:55next uh
51:59uh somewhere in there one one of those
52:02times there was a there was another bag
52:04on the driveway what kind of bag was
52:07that it was another seemed to be small
52:10duffel bag can you show with your hands
52:14how big that bag
52:16was from what I can remember I saw it at
52:18a distance so from my what I can
52:20remember it was smaller than the other
52:22two it was just you know a foot and 1
52:25half by a foot and a half or you know
52:27foot and a half by half a foot it it
52:29wasn't very
52:30big and could you tell what color it was
52:33it seemed to be
52:35dark where did you see
52:37it if you can locate the area on this
52:42diagram it was over here uh on the
52:48Rockingham on the Rockingham
52:50driveway a little farther towards the
52:55house keep
52:58going up to go up a little bit right
53:02right around there somewhere could you
53:04put a b
53:06there for bag is that about right sir
53:10yes all
53:14right and that marking is on people's
53:1866e
53:23yes all right
53:28and what Drew your attention to that
53:33bag
53:34what uh when uh I think it was
53:39when when when Mr Simpson gave K the the
53:43golf bags I was kind of looking in that
53:46area I saw it on the ground
53:48okay now it's what happened with that
53:52bag
53:54uh there was sometime
53:57when when Kato was asking me for a
53:59flashlight we were standing around the
54:01car and uh Mr Simpson came back out out
54:04of
54:06where I couldn't remember he just came
54:09towards the car we were towards the back
54:11of the trunk he came towards the car
54:13could you tell if he came from the
54:14Rockingham gate location or from the
54:17house I don't remember okay uh he came
54:21out and uh KO offered to go get the bag
54:25and uh he said no no that's okay I'll
54:27get it I'll get it okay so uh he went
54:30and got the
54:31bag and as he was getting the bag I
54:34walked around the other side of the car
54:36towards the driver's side and I don't
54:38remember if he put that inside the car
54:41or or in the trunk I don't I don't
54:43remember that okay so after the
54:46defendant said that he would get it did
54:47you see him walk over to the bag yes and
54:50get it
54:51yes and did you see him come back with
54:53it
54:57oh
54:59oh you can answer
55:03uh yes I didn't well actually I didn't
55:06see him come back with it but he he came
55:08back towards the car and like I said I
55:09don't know if he put it inside or or in
55:12the trunk when you say inside you mean
55:15in the passenger area
55:17yes when he after he went and picked up
55:21the bag after the defendant went and
55:23picked up the bag um
55:26at what point did you go around to the
55:28driver's side of your
55:32car where was the defendant when you did
55:35that when I walked around yes he came
55:39back from where the bag was okay towards
55:42the towards the limousine so the
55:44defendant was on his way back from
55:45picking up the bag when you went to the
55:47driver's side yeah as I was walking
55:48around he was he was coming
55:51back what happened
55:54next uh after that he went back into the
55:57house and uh KO went back in with him
56:01they were standing in the entrance area
56:03of the
56:05house
56:06uh what they were saying I don't know
56:09was that in the inside the entrance area
56:11of the house
56:16yes they appeared did they appear to be
56:19having a conversation
56:24yes at the time
56:27that the defendant came back from
56:30picking up that uh bag on the driveway
56:33area can you tell us whether the car
56:36doors were open or
56:43closed you can answer
56:46uh from from what I can remember both uh
56:49back doors were open and and my driver's
56:52door was open okay and what about the
56:54trunk was it open or closed it was it
56:56was still open at that
57:03time so were all the doors in trunk open
57:06except for the one on the front
57:07passenger
57:11side from what I can
57:14remember some point they
57:17were I
57:19mean I'm talking about this point I'm
57:21talking about the point when the
57:22defendant came back from having picked
57:24up that bag on the driveway toward the
57:26uh house I know my driver's door was
57:29open I know the uh driver's door on the
57:34uh on the
57:36uh the the driver's door on the uh the
57:41the back one the back door on the
57:42driver's side was open also the other
57:45one I cannot remember if it was or not
57:47and the trunk was open okay could the
57:49rear passenger door have been open as
57:51well yes
58:00at the point when the defendant went to
58:01get that bag from the driveway were all
58:03the other bags loaded into the car yes
58:06they were so that was the last one to go
58:09in yes and was it after that point that
58:12he went and spoke to KO inside the
58:14entrance area of the
58:16house oh
58:20yes how long did he and KO speak in the
58:23entrance area of the house it was it was
58:26was very brief 30 seconds a
58:30minute and then what
58:33happened uh from what I can remember
58:36after that uh they were they both came
58:40walking
58:41outside
58:42um Mr Simpson said something about uh
58:46searching the property about from what I
58:49remember from what I heard was uh you go
58:51around one way and and I'll go around
58:53the
58:54other it's that time I uh closed the
58:58trunk and uh the doors the car
59:02doors and
59:05uh KO walked over to uh started walking
59:09over to the corner of the garage where I
59:11pointed where he was
59:13before and Mr Simpson started to go kind
59:17of in that that direction and I was
59:20going to follow him I was going to go
59:22just you know just see if they need any
59:24help I I didn't know what was back there
59:25either either so I was going to go and
59:28at that time uh Mr Simpson said we got
59:30to go okay so when you say Kato walked
59:33down toward the garage um can you show
59:37us on this
59:39diagram the uh area he was walking
59:43towards the direction in which he was
59:47walking from point A to to point B or or
59:51just the direction he was just I guess
59:52the
59:53direction uh to where the K is where you
59:56where you put KO he was walking towards
59:59that yes hey you want to have the arrow
1:00:03point that way all right and where did
1:00:05he start
1:00:09from uh first of all who was it that
1:00:11said you go one way I'll go the other Mr
1:00:13Simpson okay and where was KO and Mr
1:00:16Simpson standing at that
1:00:20time they were standing just a little
1:00:23bit farther back were uh
1:00:27a little bit towards the
1:00:29house
1:00:30uh
1:00:32whoa
1:00:34okay seasick
1:00:37here what am I looking at the dot or the
1:00:40arrow can we okay it was uh just a
1:00:44little bit farther down towards the
1:00:47garage towards the garage towards the
1:00:51garage it was in that area are you
1:00:55giving up
1:00:57practically is that about right that
1:00:59yeah all right that's where they started
1:01:01from yes okay why don't we
1:01:04put k+ s
1:01:28okay and um could we put a arrow on that
1:01:31to indicate
1:01:35Direction underneath it in between the
1:01:37two there we
1:01:39go
1:01:42well can you tell the arrow where what
1:01:45direction they were going in put the
1:01:47arrow where you want to Mr
1:01:49park
1:01:51over uh what fact is it
1:01:54over
1:01:58to the same way the arrows pointing but
1:02:01around the
1:02:02garage so can you move that
1:02:07arrow in that direction all right thank
1:02:11you again this is on
1:02:2166e all right so um who was who was in
1:02:24the lead walking South towards the
1:02:26garage from what I remember KO and was
1:02:30Mr Simpson behind him
1:02:35yes did uh Mr kin have uh that same
1:02:39flashlight in his
1:02:40hand as the one you'd seen in his hand
1:02:45earlier uh at that point in time I don't
1:02:48know he might have gave up on it by
1:02:51then it it wasn't very bright at all
1:02:55okay
1:02:58and then the defendant after the
1:02:59defendant said we got to go what
1:03:01happened
1:03:03next uh we both went to the car I opened
1:03:07the door for him let him in and got in
1:03:08the front and uh we drove
1:03:14off did you go over and close the trunk
1:03:17of the car sir yes before uh I started
1:03:21to walk with
1:03:22them before you started to go with them
1:03:25South towards the garage area
1:03:27yes when you closed the trunk of the car
1:03:30did you notice which bags were inside
1:03:31the
1:03:32trunk no I didn't look you just closed
1:03:35the trunk
1:03:51yes what gate did you exit through the
1:03:54Rockingham gate
1:03:57okay and how was it opened if you know
1:04:00from what I remember KO opened
1:04:04it do you recall what time it was when
1:04:06you went out through the Rockingham
1:04:08gate it was around somewhere between 10
1:04:13after 15 after
1:04:2011 now when you exited the uh Rockingham
1:04:24gate did you you what were you looking
1:04:26did you look out onto the
1:04:28street yes I was watching for traffic
1:04:32okay and were you looking to see which
1:04:35cars were parked on the curb at that
1:04:36time
1:04:38no and you're uh you were you were on
1:04:41the driver side that would have been the
1:04:42left hand side of the car correct yes
1:04:45did you see any traffic approaching as
1:04:47you exited the uh Rockingham gate yes
1:04:50from what I remember there was a car
1:04:52coming from the south or from from
1:04:54Northbound heading south
1:04:56down
1:05:01Rockingham and when you saw that car
1:05:04approaching you coming
1:05:06south coming was it coming towards you
1:05:09from the north what did you do uh from
1:05:12what I remember I had to Edge out just a
1:05:15little bit
1:05:17uh
1:05:19for there was from what I remember there
1:05:22was a car to the left and when I came
1:05:24out something was this obstructing my
1:05:26view over here on the right and I edged
1:05:29out and I let the car go by and then I
1:05:32left okay I followed it
1:05:34down so when you saw the car approaching
1:05:37the Rockingham gate going north to south
1:05:40you indicated you saw a car on your left
1:05:43yes you mean a car was it a moving car
1:05:46or was it a park car no it was park it
1:05:47was a little farther down uh on the on
1:05:50the curb yes and you said something was
1:05:53obstructing your vision on the right
1:05:56or you said something was obstructing
1:05:59your view on the right yes was that uh
1:06:02to the north of the Rockingham
1:06:05gate yes the the area I was looking at
1:06:08the car okay and did you look to pay
1:06:11closer attention to what it was that was
1:06:13obstructing your view to the right of
1:06:15the north that's to the right north of
1:06:17the Rockingham gate no I was strictly
1:06:20looking at the traffic okay and the
1:06:22object that was obstructing your view
1:06:23was it stationary part or was it
1:06:28moving the area that was obstructing
1:06:30your view to the right the object that
1:06:31was obstructing your view to the right I
1:06:33don't know I didn't pay attention to it
1:06:35I was looking at the
1:06:41traffic so you were looking for moving
1:06:44and not parked vehicles at that time
1:06:48yes stand and you said uh after that car
1:06:52passed that was going from north to
1:06:53south you pulled out yeah where did you
1:06:56go
1:06:57then I took Rockingham down to
1:07:01Sunset made a left on Sunset heading
1:07:05east and uh was going to the 405 freeway
1:07:10to head south on the
1:07:12405 and go to uh
1:07:16LAX when I was going
1:07:18down Sunset I was in my left hand lane
1:07:22cuz uh it was the only only way I I knew
1:07:25how to get on the under the freeway was
1:07:27to make a left
1:07:29and when I was just about to get there
1:07:31Mr Simpson told me that you could get on
1:07:33the freeway on the right hand side so uh
1:07:37I got in the right hand lane I made a
1:07:39right- hand turn just a little too soon
1:07:41and missed the
1:07:43onramp so he said that's okay you could
1:07:46just keep going straight down whatever
1:07:48street it was there will be another
1:07:49on-ramp a little bit farther
1:07:51down um but he was correct and uh
1:07:57got back on the freeway and and drove to
1:08:00LAX from
1:08:04there so with the defendant's assistance
1:08:07you made it to the airport yes all
1:08:10right on the way to the airport did the
1:08:13defendant say anything to
1:08:15you
1:08:18um yeah a few times he repeated uh how
1:08:22hot he was uh two or three times he said
1:08:25you know man it's hot and I told him
1:08:28that he can turn the air conditioning on
1:08:31which I remember hearing it come on yes
1:08:34he also had
1:08:36uh the the seat that he was sitting in
1:08:38he also had the window
1:08:41down uh a couple times you know he
1:08:44repeat uh repeated doesn't pay to get
1:08:46dressed in a hurry or something like
1:08:48that or I know I forgot something I said
1:08:49that usually happens when you're going
1:08:51on a
1:08:52trip uh asked me what time it was
1:08:56uh Mr Park let me ask you something how
1:08:58many
1:09:00times well he's on a narrative you don't
1:09:03mind I'll ask him the next question
1:09:05excuse me Council I thought we agreed
1:09:06we're going to talk to
1:09:08me thank you
1:09:13chy how many times did the defendant
1:09:16remark to you that he was
1:09:18hot he said it pretty quick right in a
1:09:21row two or three
1:09:22times and then after the air
1:09:25conditioning and the window were down
1:09:29did he continue to repeat he was
1:09:32hot a stain phrase a
1:09:36question a did
1:09:40he remark on being hot again after the
1:09:44air conditioning was on and the window
1:09:45was
1:09:46down did he remark did he say it again
1:09:51no do you recall what the weather was
1:09:53like that night uh from what I remember
1:09:56it was mild having our normal June
1:10:00Gloom foggy
1:10:02nights about
1:10:05what about what was the temperature if
1:10:07you recall
1:10:10uh 68 70° I don't know were you sweating
1:10:14no I wasn't were you hot
1:10:21no and did the defendant say something
1:10:23else to you on the way to the
1:10:26airport uh he asked me he asked me where
1:10:30a light switch was and before I could
1:10:32give him an answer he found one I was
1:10:34about to tell him on the door back there
1:10:38uh also we were on the freeway he asked
1:10:40me what exit I was going to get off on
1:10:43and uh he suggested I take Sova and
1:10:46probably be the
1:10:51quickest could you see what movements he
1:10:53was making as he was sitting in the back
1:10:56seat uh from what I remember he was just
1:10:59he was uh I didn't look back there very
1:11:01much at all uh I could I remember him
1:11:04bending down I just you could just see
1:11:06him bent down
1:11:08looking seemed like he was just checking
1:11:10his bags to see if he had and everything
1:11:12okay could you see some body
1:11:17movements no not really what could you
1:11:20see that led you to conclude that he was
1:11:22checking his bags or doing something
1:11:25that he was bent down off the seat where
1:11:29the bags were on the
1:11:30floor and could you hear any sounds as
1:11:33he was doing that a little bit
1:11:36not really why did you
1:11:40hear just somebody shifting around in
1:11:43the back like you're like you're moving
1:11:45I mean and was that before or after he
1:11:47turned on the
1:11:50light I don't
1:11:53remember for how long did was the light
1:11:55on uh very
1:11:58brief 20 30
1:12:09seconds can you tell what the traffic
1:12:11was like do you recall what the traffic
1:12:12was like that
1:12:14night it was
1:12:17uh it was nice for
1:12:20La I mean it was there was hardly any
1:12:22cars on the freeway it was late at night
1:12:25so it was pretty wide open so were you
1:12:27driving pretty fast
1:12:30yes about what time did you get to the
1:12:33airport uh it was about
1:12:3911:35 and when you got to the airport
1:12:42where did you pull up to uh I pulled up
1:12:45to the American Airlines
1:12:53terminal what did you do when you got to
1:12:56that
1:12:57location uh I got there and I popped the
1:13:01trunk and got out of the
1:13:04car uh Mr Simpson got out and
1:13:09uh started to take we we started to take
1:13:12uh bags out of the trunk he uh I the
1:13:16first bag I grabbed was the Gucci bag
1:13:19and at that time he asked me to go get a
1:13:20sky cap okay when you say the Gucci bag
1:13:23um you mean the garment bag yes
1:13:26and after the defendant asked you to get
1:13:28the uh skyc cap what did you
1:13:31do uh I proceeded to walk over and see
1:13:34if I could find
1:13:36one uh all of them said they were busy
1:13:39so I walked
1:13:40into the terminal part and grabbed a
1:13:42luggage
1:13:44cart when you when you went to get the
1:13:46skyc cap did you bring the garment bag
1:13:48with you or did you leave it at the car
1:13:50no I set it on the ground and when the
1:13:52defendant got out of the limousine sir
1:13:53could you observe him was there lighting
1:13:56there that you could see him yes did he
1:13:59get out of the car as soon as you pulled
1:14:00up to the
1:14:02terminal I don't know if it was as soon
1:14:04as we got there I know it
1:14:07was I know it was pretty pretty quick
1:14:09after we pulled
1:14:11up when you got out of the car after you
1:14:14parked there did you see him out of the
1:14:18car did you see him get out of the car
1:14:21yeah I'm I opened the door oh you opened
1:14:24the door for him yes okay and then he
1:14:26got out yes could you tell whether or
1:14:28not he looked
1:14:30sweaty
1:14:31uh soain ref question could you tell us
1:14:34how he looked how did he appear uh he
1:14:37seemed to be
1:14:38hot uh and what did you see that made
1:14:41you believe that he had a little bit of
1:14:44sweat on his
1:14:49forehead all right so after you
1:14:52um so you went to get a skyc cap when
1:14:55you couldn't get one you went to get a
1:14:56luggage carrier did you bring one back
1:14:57with you yes I did and when I say back
1:15:00did you go back to the car with that
1:15:02luggage carrier yes I did about how long
1:15:05period of time was it between the time
1:15:08you left to you left Mr
1:15:11Simpson and came back to him with the
1:15:14luggage
1:15:18carrier it would have been no more than
1:15:20a minute okay when you came back to the
1:15:23car
1:15:25where was Mr Simpson at the trunk of the
1:15:28car at the trunk mhm is that yes yes did
1:15:32he have anything in his
1:15:34hands uh from what I remember he had one
1:15:37of the duffel bags kind of strapped over
1:15:39his
1:15:40shoulder and uh as I I walked up he put
1:15:44the golf bags on the cart that that I
1:15:47was still holding and I picked up and
1:15:49put the Gucci bag on the cart when you
1:15:51say golf bags was there more than one
1:15:53golf bag no one it was
1:15:56it was a golf bag in a golf bag I mean
1:15:59there was a case that that covered all
1:16:01the all the golf bag okay but it was was
1:16:03it one item
1:16:05yes who put the golf bag onto the
1:16:09luggage
1:16:11carrier uh Mr
1:16:13Simpson and who put the garment bag on
1:16:16top of the golf bag on the luggage
1:16:17carrier uh from what I remember I picked
1:16:19it up and and put it on top and Mr
1:16:22Simpson had a duffel bag over one of
1:16:24those duffel bags over his shoulder from
1:16:26what I remember
1:16:29yes and that duffel bag that he had over
1:16:31his shoulder uh was that the big one
1:16:35that you were describing yeah it was one
1:16:36of
1:16:40the I don't know we have differentiation
1:16:42and size of the two duffel bags we ask
1:16:45you indicated that when you pulled up to
1:16:47the uh front door at Rockingham that
1:16:49there were two duffel bags in the front
1:16:51entrance yes what color were they black
1:16:54um were they different sizes they were
1:16:57close to the same about the same size
1:16:59yes and was it one of those duffel bags
1:17:02that you saw Mr Simpson had over his
1:17:04shoulder when you came back with the
1:17:06luggage carrier
1:17:10yes so a golf bag and a garment bag went
1:17:13on the luggage carrier he had the other
1:17:15bag strapped and from what I remember
1:17:17carrying the
1:17:19other uh black duffel bag Okay so
1:17:26one of the large black duffel bags was
1:17:27on his shoulder and the other was in his
1:17:29hand yes and the one that was in his
1:17:32hand was that as large as the one on his
1:17:35shoulder it was around the same
1:17:39size and then what
1:17:42happened uh we walked over to uh where
1:17:46you check your baggage
1:17:47in I uh I set the
1:17:53uh I set the golf B bag on the sky Cap's
1:17:56luggage cart along with the Gucci
1:17:59bag and
1:18:01uh he uh he he just he carried the other
1:18:06the other bags with him over to where
1:18:08the
1:18:09uh to where you check your luggage in
1:18:11and he was checking his luggage in I put
1:18:13the stuff on the on the
1:18:15cart and uh that was about it I walked
1:18:19over shook his hand
1:18:21and he said add 20% and
1:18:25see you later okay on your way over to
1:18:27the sky cap did uh anybody stop Mr
1:18:32Simpson uh I couldn't remember exactly
1:18:36what what time it it took place but
1:18:38someone from American Airlines asked
1:18:40them for an autograph yes okay and was
1:18:42that on the way from the limo to the sky
1:18:45cap
1:18:47uh I'm not positive if it was before
1:18:51that when I came back with the with the
1:18:54cart I don't know if it happened during
1:18:56that or or if it if it was uh when we
1:19:00were walking over
1:19:02there spark would this be a good spot
1:19:05I'm just about done okay actually is
1:19:07that
1:19:13okay so did he
1:19:18check did he check the um the golf bag
1:19:22and the garment bag with the skyc cap
1:19:27I don't I don't know did you see what he
1:19:28carried on versus what he checked in I
1:19:31was gone by then okay when you when uh
1:19:35you went with him from the limo to the
1:19:38skyc cap did you see that small dark bag
1:19:41that you'd seen earlier on the driveway
1:19:43of Rockingham not that I remember
1:19:46I can I
1:19:58all right ladies and gentlemen we're
1:19:59going to take a uh recess so I can
1:20:00change court reporters please remember
1:20:02my admonitions to you don't discuss the
1:20:04case amongst yourselves form any
1:20:05opinions about the case allow anybody to
1:20:06communicate with you or conduct any
1:20:09deliberations so the matter has been
1:20:10submitted to you we'll be in recess for
1:20:1215 minutes Mr Park you may step down and
1:20:14you're order to return in 15 minutes all
1:20:16right thank you
1:20:20sir we've now been rejoined by all the
1:20:22members of our jury panel Mr Allan Park
1:20:25is on the witness stand undergoing
1:20:27direct examination by Miss Clark good
1:20:30afternoon again Mr Park good afternoon
1:20:32you reminded sir you are still under
1:20:33oath and Miss Clark you may continue
1:20:36with your direct examination thank you
1:20:38Ron good
1:20:42afternoon sir you indicated that you and
1:20:45Mr Simpson then walked over to the
1:20:47skycat you were call testifying to that
1:20:51yes sir yes ma'am and at that sorry
1:20:54about that I'm used to it and at that
1:20:56time uh was what was he carrying as you
1:20:59walked over to Sky cat this
1:21:05answer uh he was
1:21:07carrying the two black duffel
1:21:13bags and did he carry them all the way
1:21:15over to the sky
1:21:17capser from what I remember
1:21:21yes did you ever see that small dark bag
1:21:26after the defendant picked it up off the
1:21:29driveway at
1:21:30Rockingham
1:21:33again uh not that I
1:21:38remember and when you left the defendant
1:21:40he was at the skyc Caps station yes at
1:21:44any time during that night Sir did he
1:21:46complain to you of pain in his arms or
1:21:48his shoulders or his back no he didn't
1:21:51or his legs or his feet no
1:21:56and did he
1:21:59uh he told you to add 20% to the bill
1:22:03yes did you did you ever get that
1:22:07tip uh actually I don't remember okay
1:22:11did you see what the defendant carried
1:22:13on the plane versus what he checked in
1:22:15with the skyc cap
1:22:19suain I forgot okay at the point that
1:22:23you left then was the defendant still
1:22:25with the skyc cap sir yes then you went
1:22:28back to your car yes how far from the
1:22:31skyc cap station did you
1:22:37park
1:22:3940t 50 ft somewhere around there wasn't
1:22:42far
1:22:54and did you see the defendant tip the
1:22:56skyc
1:22:58cap did I I saw him pulling some money
1:23:02out of his pocket I didn't I never saw
1:23:03him actually tip the sky cap
1:23:14now you indicated that during the drive
1:23:17to the airport sir the defendant as
1:23:20remark to you
1:23:25as he was seated in the back of the limo
1:23:27you were driving that he forgot
1:23:28something you recall testifying to that
1:23:31the EV stain
1:23:35what did the defendant say something
1:23:37about having forgotten something to
1:23:40you he just said I you know uh he said I
1:23:45know I forgot something did he ever tell
1:23:47you what
1:23:49no I have nothing
1:23:53further Mr
1:24:00good afternoon Mr bar good afternoon
1:24:03ladies and
1:24:04gentlemen um I'd like to ask you a few
1:24:06questions if I might sir um how long had
1:24:09you worked for Mr Dale St John prior to
1:24:11June 12th of
1:24:131994 it was around two and a half three
1:24:15months and how long had you been a li
1:24:18limousine driver as of June 12th 1994 uh
1:24:21for about 5
1:24:23months and
1:24:26do you know how long Mr OJ Simpson had
1:24:29been a client of Mr Dale St
1:24:32John's uh I known it it was it's it's
1:24:35been quite a while I I didn't know the
1:24:38exact uh more than more than a year
1:24:41would you say yes uh more than several
1:24:43years yes and was he a um a valued
1:24:47client to uh Town and Country at that
1:24:50point yes I'd say and uh did you find
1:24:54out on June 12th 1994 that you'd be
1:24:56taking or picking up Mr Simpson and
1:24:58taking him to the airport yes I did and
1:25:01how didd you find this out uh from my
1:25:03boss and that was Mr Dill St John yes
1:25:07and uh Mr St John gave you some
1:25:08instructions did you about did he about
1:25:11picking up Mr
1:25:12Simpson yes he gave me directions and
1:25:15what time and all he told you to be
1:25:17there that you should pick him up
1:25:19somewhere around 10:45 p.m. is that
1:25:21correct yes and I think you told us that
1:25:23you were aware Ware that Mr Simpson was
1:25:25going to be leaving on a flight at her
1:25:27around 11:45 p.m. on June 12th is that
1:25:30correct yes you knew it was an American
1:25:32Airlines flight yes all right now did he
1:25:36give you any other special instructions
1:25:37about Mr Simpson and dealing with Mr
1:25:39Simpson at all when you first talked
1:25:41with
1:25:42him no not that I remember all right but
1:25:45you knew this was uh it was important to
1:25:47the business and important to Mr uh Mr
1:25:49St John to do a good job that night is
1:25:50that correct yes of course always and
1:25:52you would want to do that for for any
1:25:54any particular client isn't that correct
1:25:55yes uh in this instance however uh this
1:25:58would be this was the first time that
1:25:59you'd ever picked up Mr Simpson yes all
1:26:02right and as you've described coming
1:26:04from the South Bay you did not know how
1:26:06long it would take you to get to the
1:26:08Rockingham location did you correct so
1:26:12you started out early and you got there
1:26:14a little bit early is that correct yes
1:26:16had Mr St John told you that on occasion
1:26:20Mr Simpson runs late and he's running
1:26:21around late on the way to the airport
1:26:23yes
1:26:24he told you that before you got there
1:26:26and he told you that in that phone
1:26:28conversation also is that correct uh I
1:26:30don't remember him telling me before I
1:26:32remember on the phone yes but he told
1:26:34you that in that phone conversation is
1:26:35that correct yes that's when he told you
1:26:37to wait at least until 11:15 p.m. is
1:26:40that right yes right
1:26:45now prior to your uh testimony here
1:26:47today you've had occasion have you not
1:26:49to meet with the district district
1:26:51attorneys in this case yes I have and on
1:26:54how many occasions would you well strike
1:26:55that uh tell us when did you first meet
1:26:58uh Miss Marsha Clark the district
1:27:00attorney to the far end the table the
1:27:02the first time I don't I I really don't
1:27:04remember was it back in June of
1:27:081994 yes uh and you talked to her prior
1:27:12to your testimony of the grand jury
1:27:14isn't that correct yes and it'd be a
1:27:16fair statement to say you talked to her
1:27:19prior to your testimony at the
1:27:20preliminary hearing isn't that correct
1:27:22yes and it would be a fair statement to
1:27:24say you talk and gave a statement to
1:27:28um police officers um tipping and Carr
1:27:33honor about June 15th 1994 isn't that
1:27:35correct yes and then you had a second
1:27:38interview with tipping and Carr also on
1:27:41June 15th
1:27:431994 uh by telephone isn't that correct
1:27:46that's correct
1:27:48yes and prior to you're testifying here
1:27:51today uh you've had occasion in the
1:27:54recent past to talk to Miss Marsha Clark
1:27:56have you yes and uh when did you last
1:28:00talk to her prior to your testimony here
1:28:02today sir uh would have been last Friday
1:28:05and where did you talk to her at that
1:28:06point here and here in this building yes
1:28:09in her office yes and how long did you
1:28:12talk to her at that
1:28:14time
1:28:15um it was
1:28:18about an hour and a half two hours and
1:28:21what what time of day was that uh we met
1:28:23at at
1:28:2511:00 11:00 a.m. yes and is your best
1:28:29recollection that you talked until
1:28:30perhaps about
1:28:3312:30 uh somewhere around there all
1:28:35right we were here a little longer but
1:28:37there was a lot of distractions in
1:28:38between so all right and uh after that
1:28:41interview with uh Miss Clark on Friday
1:28:43at about 11 o'clock did you have
1:28:45occasion to talk to her also this
1:28:46morning
1:28:49briefly uh just here in the courtroom
1:28:52yes all right I need talk to her during
1:28:53the breaks is that correct yes all right
1:28:55have you read anything in preparation
1:28:58for your testimony here today any of the
1:29:00any of the transcripts from any of the
1:29:01earlier
1:29:02hearings of my own yes yes of your
1:29:05testimony yes tell us what you've read
1:29:08sir
1:29:11um I've read everything that that was
1:29:14taken down by the court reporter all
1:29:16right so you read everything that you
1:29:18read your testimony at the grand jury is
1:29:19that correct yes you read your testimony
1:29:22at the preliminary hearing is that
1:29:23correct
1:29:24yeah I I wouldn't say all of it but but
1:29:27you went through it yes all right and
1:29:29you read your two statements to uh
1:29:32officers tipping and car back on June
1:29:3415th is that correct yes and uh as with
1:29:38uh all of us I presume that your memory
1:29:40was better back uh in June of 1994 for
1:29:44events that had taken place on June 12th
1:29:47than it is now is that is that a fair
1:29:50statement that'd be fair to say yes all
1:29:52right and so in the course of reading
1:29:54and reviewing your testimony you tried
1:29:56as best you could to refresh your
1:29:58recollection isn't that correct yes all
1:30:00right now with regard to uh the evening
1:30:06of June 12th 1994 that was a was a
1:30:08Sunday evening was it not yes it was and
1:30:12um as I understand your testimony you
1:30:13arrived at the Simpson
1:30:17um residence
1:30:20um fairly early you got there somewhere
1:30:23uh um earlier than 10:45 is that correct
1:30:26yes all right and uh your idea in
1:30:30getting there early was to make sure
1:30:32you're on time and that you got him to
1:30:33the airport on time isn't that correct
1:30:35yes and uh the one of the reasons you
1:30:37were going to leave at 10:45 or wared to
1:30:39leave at 10:45 was because you knew you
1:30:41had an 11:45 flight to catch isn't that
1:30:43correct yes now as I understand your
1:30:46testimony even though you had thought
1:30:49about leaving at 10:45 you actually
1:30:51didn't leave until sometime after 11:00
1:30:53is that correct yes and so if I
1:30:56understand your testimony again you left
1:30:59somewhere between 11:05 and 11:15 uh out
1:31:02of the Rockingham gate is that correct
1:31:05it would have been somewhere in between
1:31:06there yes between that time frame is
1:31:08that correct now M Clark didn't ask this
1:31:10but uh you had occasion that uh she's
1:31:13right and let me just strike that from
1:31:14the okay uh now that night you you were
1:31:18you saw Mr
1:31:20Simpson uh for at least the period um
1:31:2510:55 thereabouts until you dropped him
1:31:28off at the uh or left him at the airport
1:31:31there at about 1135 isn't that correct
1:31:33yes all right and then as I understanded
1:31:35you left him with the sky cap or left
1:31:37him checking his luggage and then you
1:31:38went on and went went back home is that
1:31:40correct yes all right now during this
1:31:42period of time you had occasion did you
1:31:44not to see Mr Simpson's hands didn't
1:31:47you yes in fact you described for us
1:31:50that at one point you shook his hand his
1:31:52right hand is that correct yes all right
1:31:54and uh you saw him I think you've
1:31:56described for us coming down the stairs
1:31:58carrying some bags with with his hands
1:32:00isn't that correct yes and uh did you
1:32:03ever see any Band-Aids on on on his left
1:32:05hand on his left knuckle middle finger
1:32:08here no you didn't see any cuts on his
1:32:10hands that evening did you no and you
1:32:12didn't see Mr Simpson bleeding that
1:32:14evening did you no didn't notice
1:32:16anything unusual at all regarding his
1:32:17hands did you no
1:32:21now with regard to uh the events of that
1:32:25evening uh as I understand it you
1:32:27described for us that um you would push
1:32:30this uh Bell on the outside and did you
1:32:33find that if you push the Bell just once
1:32:35that it continued to ring for a period
1:32:36of time could you hear it
1:32:39ringing I don't remember that I I
1:32:42remember it made a noise all right you
1:32:44remember hearing some noise in the
1:32:45distance did you yeah all right and of
1:32:47course you had never pushed that that
1:32:49that um Bell before is that correct no I
1:32:52haven't now did you ever on that date or
1:32:57anytime that evening have any
1:32:59instructions from Mr Dale St John with
1:33:01regard to how he would come and pick up
1:33:05Mr Simpson and whether or not Mr Simpson
1:33:07would open the gate for him did you ever
1:33:09talk to him about that no and he never
1:33:11instructed you about that at all no is
1:33:13that correct all right but you were
1:33:14aware that Mr St John had picked up Mr
1:33:17Simpson on a number of occasions before
1:33:19June 12th yes all right do you know how
1:33:21many times he picked him up I know it's
1:33:24numerous and well how
1:33:27many I wouldn't know but numerous
1:33:29occasions yes and he was one he was the
1:33:32regular driver for Mr Simpson is that
1:33:34correct yes he was all right
1:33:42now as I understand it
1:33:47um when you first drove
1:33:49up you at some point uh ended up par
1:33:53parking across from the Ashford gate and
1:33:57got out of your vehicle is that correct
1:33:58yes just kind of waited is that correct
1:34:00yes now you describe for us this was a
1:34:02Sunday evening is that correct yes and
1:34:05that particular night on Sunday evening
1:34:07after um 1030 between 10:30 and 11:00
1:34:11would you say that it was fairly quiet
1:34:13out there on that street that night it
1:34:15was very quiet and uh you could hear um
1:34:19noises um attending to the street uh
1:34:23that that particular night from your
1:34:24location could you not yes you could and
1:34:26I think you described for us that uh at
1:34:29some point you parked the car there on
1:34:30Ashford and you got out of your car and
1:34:33I think you had a cigarette is that
1:34:34correct yes so you were outside yes all
1:34:36right and at any time while you were out
1:34:39there that night did you ever have hear
1:34:40a car drive up uh hear the sound of a
1:34:43car drive up and stop anywhere around
1:34:46there
1:34:48oh no there I heard cars I heard cars go
1:34:52by but I never heard a car pull up and
1:34:54stop now right I understand you you
1:34:57heard and you saw cars go by did you not
1:34:59yes right but you never saw a car or
1:35:02heard a car drive up and come to a stop
1:35:05did no you you didn't
1:35:08hear well you didn't hear uh any door
1:35:12slam uh that particular night did you
1:35:15no you didn't see any lights on uh that
1:35:19all of a sudden came to a stop and were
1:35:21turned off that particular evening did
1:35:22you no
1:35:25and and would I be correct in assuming
1:35:26that what you were most concerned with
1:35:27that particular evening was uh finding
1:35:30out if Mr Simpson was at home getting
1:35:33him so he could get to the airport was
1:35:35that your concern yes at that time um it
1:35:39wasn't so important to you I presume as
1:35:41to what cars were parked where on the
1:35:42street that wasn't important to you was
1:35:44it no not at all and you weren't
1:35:45thinking about that at all is that not
1:35:47at all in fact uh you recall uh
1:35:50testifying uh at the preliminary hearing
1:35:53with with regard to whether or not You'
1:35:54looked any for any park cars don't
1:35:57you remember so testifying and being
1:35:59asked questions about uh parked cars on
1:36:02the street out near Rockingham that day
1:36:04yes and do you recall uh
1:36:11Council page 40
1:36:13Council of the p c sorry
1:36:25and I'm looking at
1:36:30um beginning at line 15 the council has
1:36:33an now year do you recall being asked um
1:36:36these questions and giving these
1:36:37responses back at the preliminary
1:36:38hearing in this matter
1:36:42question all right let me see counc
1:36:45sidebar with the uh transcript
1:37:19thank you
1:37:20councel do you recall at the preliminary
1:37:22hearing being asked um this series of
1:37:25questions by Miss Clark and giving this
1:37:27response question what gate did you
1:37:30leave
1:37:31from let's TR that let's start at line
1:37:3313 question then did you leave answer
1:37:37yes question what gate did you leave
1:37:40from answer the Rockingham gate question
1:37:44and which way did you go on the
1:37:45Rockingham strike that and which way did
1:37:47you go on Rockingham as you exited the
1:37:50gate answer I made a left question
1:37:54did you look to see whether any cars
1:37:55were parked on the right side as you fa
1:37:58the driveway of Rockingham outside the
1:38:01residence answer I didn't look to see
1:38:05question you weren't looking at the park
1:38:08cars answer yeah remember so testifying
1:38:12at the plan here yes I do and when you
1:38:13gave that answer about any cars
1:38:21being all right you can do that on
1:38:23direct councel uh you know it doesn't
1:38:25matter I mean just to save some time let
1:38:27let me just do it now to save some time
1:38:29the spirit of cooperation please allow
1:38:31me to thank you uh question were you
1:38:34looking to see if there was some traffic
1:38:36answer yes of course can you tell us how
1:38:38many bags the defendant loaded into the
1:38:40car is that far enough now I keep going
1:38:43all right so it and at the time you gave
1:38:46that testimony you were being as
1:38:48accurate as you could and under oath
1:38:49isn't that correct sir yes all right and
1:38:50then you you also had occasion to um
1:38:53testify um at the Grand Jury isn't that
1:38:57correct
1:39:03yes do you recall being asked
1:39:11um these series of questions by Miss
1:39:15Clark uh beginning M Clark at page
1:39:18270 let's look begin at line 20 21
1:39:23we'll go all the way
1:39:30over to line 12 on page 272
1:40:00uh all the way to read all the way to
1:40:03the end
1:40:05272 line 12 to the all right recall um
1:40:10being asked this series of questions by
1:40:11m Marsha Clark um at the Grand Jury
1:40:14honor about June 17th
1:40:171994 question when you pulled out of the
1:40:20driveway of the suspect's house what
1:40:23driveway exit did you use Ashford or
1:40:25Rockingham answer Rockingham question
1:40:28when you pulled out of the Rockingham
1:40:30gate were you able to see any car parked
1:40:32on the street next to that
1:40:34gate answer there was a vehicle to my
1:40:37left when I was exiting I noticed I had
1:40:40to look around a vehicle I never noticed
1:40:42what kind of vehicle it was I didn't pay
1:40:44any attention to that but there was a
1:40:45vehicle there question you say a vehicle
1:40:47to your left that would be the area I'm
1:40:50indicating with my pen you remember that
1:40:52she then pointed out something on the
1:40:53map yes okay correct why don't you mark
1:40:56that uh you said you noticed the vehicle
1:40:59down there that is to your left is from
1:41:01the driver's compartment yes uh yes
1:41:03witness complies question go ahead and
1:41:05have a seat you exited out of the gate
1:41:08that feeds onto Rockingham is that right
1:41:11answer yes so you are on the left side
1:41:14of your car right answer yes and you're
1:41:18going to make a left out of the gate
1:41:21answer that's correct question so you're
1:41:24looking to your left for traffic for
1:41:26oncoming traffic answer yeah both ways
1:41:30question did you attempt to look very
1:41:32carefully to see whether other strike
1:41:34that did you attempt to look very
1:41:35carefully to see whether cars were
1:41:37parked on the other side of the driveway
1:41:39answer there were no
1:41:42cards question that's to the right side
1:41:45are you sure answer that's the right
1:41:47side it's not in the transcript oh I was
1:41:49just trying to see I was strike that I
1:41:51was trying to make it clear for the
1:41:52witness right all right are you sure
1:41:54answer I'm pretty sure question did you
1:41:57make an effort to look and see if there
1:41:58were any cars there answer I look to the
1:42:00right to see if there were any cars
1:42:02coming down the street question well I'm
1:42:04asking you if you look to made an effort
1:42:07to see if there was a car parked answer
1:42:10no question by Mr Clark there might have
1:42:12been a car park there and you didn't see
1:42:14it answer correct you recall so
1:42:17testifying at the Grand Jury yes I do
1:42:20and again the events were were fresh in
1:42:21your mind at that point honor about June
1:42:2317th isn't that correct yes now you also
1:42:27had occasion to be interviewed by
1:42:29officers
1:42:31tippen and Carr honored about June 15th
1:42:351994 the first time being uh 940 in the
1:42:39morning isn't that correct yes and at
1:42:42that time you gave them u a complete
1:42:44statement of what you'd observed uh back
1:42:46on June 12 isn't that a fair statement
1:42:49yes and then you had occasion after
1:42:52making the statement that morning to
1:42:54telephonically speak with tip and a car
1:42:57to give a further statement isn't that
1:42:58correct a reinw that's correct do you
1:43:01recall that yes and you've had occasion
1:43:03to read that have you not yes I have
1:43:05okay and do you remember telling uh
1:43:08officers tipping in car that you didn't
1:43:10recall sing a car parked in front of the
1:43:12residence when you stopped near the
1:43:14Rockingham gate remember telling him
1:43:16that yes and uh that was your state of
1:43:19mind at the time you talked to him isn't
1:43:20that correct yes it is in fact in none
1:43:22of the the statements or in any none of
1:43:24the places where you've testified have
1:43:26you ever testified about having your
1:43:30view obstructed at all to the right have
1:43:32you before
1:43:33today no this today was the first time
1:43:36we've heard that is that yes all right
1:43:41now let's go back to um the time when
1:43:45you got onto the premises there uh at
1:43:49Rockingham at some point as I understand
1:43:52it you drove this um stretch limousine
1:43:55onto the premises there at Rockingham is
1:43:57that correct yes and you were let in on
1:44:00the gate by Mr K kin is that correct
1:44:03from what I remember yes all right and
1:44:06uh do you recall him coming out and
1:44:07opening the gate or opening the the the
1:44:09gate somewhere rather
1:44:11yes um and this is after you'd had a
1:44:15conversation with Mr Simpson is that
1:44:17correct yes it is and so that we're
1:44:19clear you record you had never talked to
1:44:22Mr Simpson before personally is that
1:44:23correct no but it was your belief was Mr
1:44:27Simpson you were talking to because the
1:44:29voice that you heard sounded just like
1:44:31the voice that you heard on television
1:44:34broadcast is that right yes okay and in
1:44:36that conversation uh Mr Simpson told you
1:44:39he just got out of the shower yes he did
1:44:41and that
1:44:43uh you said he said he was over he'd
1:44:45overslept yes he'd be down shortly words
1:44:47that effect is that right
1:44:49yes oh now even after you talked to Mr
1:44:55Simpson uh the gate didn't come on but
1:44:57at that point did it no and did you ever
1:44:59have a conversation with him that night
1:45:01where and he told you that he didn't
1:45:02like to open the gate because the dog
1:45:03would get out when that gate was open
1:45:05you remember ever talking to him about
1:45:06that at all no there was a a black Chow
1:45:10uh at the in inside the residence there
1:45:12isn't it yes and that was the dog that
1:45:14you were petting at some point yes all
1:45:16right and
1:45:19um but you didn't have a conversation
1:45:21with Mr Simpson about that child and his
1:45:24propensity to go outside no not not that
1:45:26I remember now all right so at any rate
1:45:30after you talk with Mr Simpson uh it was
1:45:33Mr K Kalin who Who You'd seen first who
1:45:36came over and let you in and somewhere
1:45:38there is that right yes now with regard
1:45:41to this uh person that you have uh
1:45:44indicated that you saw somewhere out
1:45:47there in the in the driveway area and
1:45:49you've described it some with some
1:45:51particularity so I won't go into that
1:45:53detail uh could this person have had a
1:45:55Rob
1:45:57on could have all right you uh you
1:46:01couldn't tell from your distance you
1:46:02just saw a person about 6 foot that you
1:46:04felt was about 200 lb right yes that was
1:46:07an African-American in dark clothing
1:46:09right yes all right and uh would I be
1:46:13correct in assuming that you saw this
1:46:14person only for a short period of time
1:46:16as that person was going into this
1:46:18entrance way uh to to the residence is
1:46:20that correct yes and how long would you
1:46:22you say you saw that person oh was very
1:46:25short just a second just in seconds yes
1:46:28just a couple of seconds yes and as I
1:46:31understand that Miss Clark asked you
1:46:31some questions about glasses were you
1:46:33wearing your glasses that night no all
1:46:36right was a short period of time and
1:46:39then as I understood your testimony this
1:46:42person that you've described for us um
1:46:45went inside the appeared to go inside
1:46:47the residence is that correct yes all
1:46:49right and there was a gap of no more
1:46:53than five or six minutes between you the
1:46:55first time you actually could see and
1:46:57identify Mr OJ Simpson that evening is
1:46:59that correct yes and when you saw Mr
1:47:02Simpson by this time you pulled into the
1:47:05driveway area isn't that
1:47:07right repeat that okay when you saw Mr
1:47:10Simpson come down and come out of the
1:47:12house you had by this time pulled into
1:47:15the driveway area yes right and as I
1:47:17understand it were you inside the
1:47:18stretch limousine at that point or not
1:47:21when he came out yes when Mr no I was
1:47:23outside you outside the vehicle yes all
1:47:26right you pulled it in and would it be
1:47:27would I be correct if I had a word
1:47:29picture of you that the driver's door of
1:47:32the limousine the front driver's door
1:47:34was somewhere uh in front of the front
1:47:39door of the residence there at 360
1:47:42Yes and where were you standing when Mr
1:47:44Simpson came
1:47:47out from what I remember
1:47:50uh it was it was somewhere in that
1:47:52vicinity of of the the front end of the
1:47:55limousine all right and as I understand
1:47:58your testimony when you drove into this
1:48:00location there were already some bags
1:48:03already out there isn't that correct yes
1:48:05so now so that we're clear I want you to
1:48:07describe for this court and jury uh what
1:48:09bags did you see after you gained
1:48:11entrance into the Rockingham driveway
1:48:12tell us what you saw on the ground or in
1:48:15and around the premises there that were
1:48:16already out uh the only bags that I saw
1:48:19at that time were just the two duffel
1:48:20bags on the porch and these were the
1:48:22bags that you described as being dark
1:48:25and G and that you I think indicated at
1:48:27least um in length were they both about
1:48:303T somewhere around there yeah I think
1:48:32the court said something like 36 in do
1:48:34you recall yes and about how tall were
1:48:37they a foot foot and a half all right
1:48:39and these uh were two black uh for one a
1:48:43better word we'll call them duffel bags
1:48:44and where were they when you first saw
1:48:47them they would be on
1:48:50the uh the entrance way of the house
1:48:53just at the end of The Patio by the
1:48:55driveway the end of the patio by the
1:48:56driveway yes may I have to
1:49:04you one of those
1:49:06photographs thank
1:49:29you recall having been asked some
1:49:31questions about this particular U
1:49:33exhibit on direct examination do you not
1:49:36yes and I want you to look at uh people
1:49:3866e for identification and uh I want you
1:49:41to tell the jury if you will uh where
1:49:44these two black duffel bags were when
1:49:47you drove into that
1:49:51driveway uh from what I remember they
1:49:53would
1:49:56be
1:49:57just a little bit closer to the entrance
1:50:00way behind the the Y in
1:50:04driveway I missed that I'm sorry it was
1:50:06near where uh behind the Y and driveway
1:50:10just a little bit past that towards the
1:50:12corner so would I be correct in assuming
1:50:14that it would be between the Y and
1:50:16driveway on people 66 uh between the Y
1:50:19and that Circle uh that that approaches
1:50:21the entrance way yeah yes that' be about
1:50:23right and where were they where were
1:50:24they on the ground or were they on some
1:50:26objects or what at that point they were
1:50:27on the ground all right they were just
1:50:29on the ground there is that correct and
1:50:31what was the condition of the door what
1:50:34apparently is the front door of that
1:50:35residence as you pulled in there was it
1:50:37open or closed or what it was open all
1:50:40right and did you see some light
1:50:41emanating from inside the residence yes
1:50:44all right and at that point you didn't
1:50:45see Mr Simpson is that correct no did
1:50:48you see K kin at that point yes and uh
1:50:51was K kin
1:50:53somewhere out on that um driveway area
1:50:55there that time yes all right so now at
1:51:01that point you described the two black
1:51:03duffel bags and where they were did you
1:51:05see some other bags that were in and
1:51:08around on that driveway area uh after
1:51:11you saw the two duffel bags
1:51:13sir uh later on I saw the the one duffel
1:51:17bag where it's marked
1:51:19B all right and that was um later on and
1:51:23prior to the time that you left is that
1:51:25correct yes all right and that bag
1:51:28that's marked B on this this people 66 e
1:51:33um from the front of your vehicle to
1:51:36where that uh B is marked there in the
1:51:39driveway how far is
1:51:41that uh that's probably
1:51:49about 20t 25 ft all right and how close
1:51:53did you get to that that that smaller
1:51:55bag uh not very close about 20 25 ft
1:51:59away yeah okay that's as close as you
1:52:01got yes okay and uh can you again
1:52:03describe that what color was that bag
1:52:05just seemed to be dark from where I was
1:52:07it was dark in that area all right and
1:52:09so you just saw it from a distance and
1:52:12uh is that correct yes and you weren't
1:52:13wearing your glasses at that point no
1:52:15all right so that was that was the third
1:52:16bag that you saw Yes uh did you see some
1:52:19other bag out there in the driveway area
1:52:22um prior to the time that you you left
1:52:24no all right uh you described for us the
1:52:28golf clubs at some point yes and when is
1:52:31the first time you saw the golf clubs
1:52:33when Mr Simpson got them and your your
1:52:36recollection is where did Mr Simpson get
1:52:38the golf clubs
1:52:39from I didn't see that you just saw him
1:52:43with the golf clubs I saw him hand them
1:52:45to KO all right you don't know where
1:52:46he'd got him from no and prior to Mr
1:52:49Simpson handing these golf clubs to Kido
1:52:51kin you had seen where he got them right
1:52:54no okay you did describe for us did you
1:52:56not that the golf clubs appeared to be
1:52:58like a bag within a bag or something of
1:53:00that nature yes can you describe that
1:53:02with greater
1:53:02particularity uh it was just an all
1:53:05Black Sheath over the over the golf bags
1:53:08that had a uh Swiss Army emblem on it
1:53:12yes and so if I if I understand you
1:53:14correctly you couldn't see the golf
1:53:16clubs themselves is that correct they
1:53:18were all covered up by another bag that
1:53:19was over the golf bag correct is that
1:53:21correct yes okay and this this sheath
1:53:24that was over the golf bag had some sort
1:53:27of a Swiss Army emblem yes all right
1:53:30what color was that the emblem yes white
1:53:33and what color was the bag
1:53:36black
1:53:41now after this five or six minute period
1:53:43of time that Mr Simpson came down came
1:53:47out the entrance way you've described
1:53:48for us you described for us earlier he
1:53:50was carrying some sort of a bag do you
1:53:51recall that yes and uh what kind of bag
1:53:54was that uh it was a garic bag that uh
1:53:58resembled a Gucci pattern Gucci bag
1:54:00pattern all right let me you've been
1:54:01saying Gucci pattern do do you know the
1:54:03difference between Louis Vuitton and and
1:54:05Gucci no all right if if I were you
1:54:08don't do you okay trying to
1:54:14see don't look at me no I
1:54:18wouldn't somebody here has one but I
1:54:22tomorrow tomorrow okay but but so when
1:54:25you said it looks like Gucci pattern you
1:54:27know it's one of those designer patterns
1:54:29that what you're telling us yes so did
1:54:31have you ever seen those bags with those
1:54:32little LVS on them that are kind of
1:54:34brown uh LV standing for Louis
1:54:37Vuitton uh I can't say I have all right
1:54:40if you were to ever see any of these
1:54:42bags again do you think You' recognize
1:54:43them yes all right and any rate whatever
1:54:48this bag said it was had some some
1:54:49writing on it is that correct yes and
1:54:51what color was it uh it was a beige all
1:54:54right and uh this bag was how did you
1:54:56see Mr Simpson with this bag when he
1:54:58came out that front
1:55:01door how was he was he carrying it yeah
1:55:04from what I remember it it was a bag
1:55:06that it felt it folded in half all right
1:55:09had a handle in the middle from what I
1:55:12remember and uh he was carrying it was
1:55:14he yeah all right and you saw him
1:55:16carrying it in his hands that right yes
1:55:18okay and did you see that he plac that
1:55:20bag down somewhere when he first came
1:55:22came down from from what I remember he
1:55:25said it by the other duffel bags so at
1:55:28that point there'd be perhaps three bags
1:55:29of the two black duffel bags and this uh
1:55:32designer bag we'll call it designer bag
1:55:34is that right yes okay so at this point
1:55:37you know about uh those three plus later
1:55:40on you see the bag marked at B at at 66e
1:55:44is that correct yes and uh at this point
1:55:47you have not seen the golf clubs or have
1:55:49you
1:55:52uh no okay now when you first uh see Mr
1:55:55Simpson do the two of you greet each
1:55:57other at that
1:55:59point I can't remember that he's is he
1:56:02apparently rushing around at this point
1:56:04yes all right what time is it by now now
1:56:07is
1:56:09about right around 11:00 a little bit
1:56:11after right around 11 or shortly after
1:56:1311 is that right and do you have some
1:56:15concern at this point about about making
1:56:17your flight yes and now this is the
1:56:19first time youve ever picked up OJ
1:56:20Simpson and you kind of want to be on
1:56:22time
1:56:22yes you wouldn't want to miss that
1:56:25flight I wouldn't want him to all right
1:56:28and you wouldn't want to uh do that for
1:56:29any client uh including Mr Simpson is
1:56:32that a fair statement correct okay so
1:56:33you had some concern about time yes okay
1:56:37describe for the uh jury again if you
1:56:38would uh what Mr Simpson was wearing as
1:56:43best you can recall on that particular
1:56:44evening it was uh kind of some
1:56:47stonewashed jeans all right by stonewash
1:56:49Jean was that um lighter colored blue
1:56:53jeans yes all right and as though
1:56:56they've been actually pre-washed or
1:56:57whatever yes okay and what kind of top
1:57:01if any was he wearing at that he had a
1:57:03white shirt on white collared shirt
1:57:05seemed to be almost like a polo shirt
1:57:07short sleeve did you see whether or not
1:57:10he had any kind of um shirt over this uh
1:57:14this white shirt you described for
1:57:16us uh from from what I remember he had a
1:57:19black coat with him uh for some I don't
1:57:22think he was wearing it the whole
1:57:24time this black coat that you described
1:57:27do you recall that he may have had it in
1:57:29his hands or something of that nature
1:57:31yes all right do you recall him wearing
1:57:33any kind of a jean shirt top over this
1:57:37white uh shirt you described for us
1:57:40no do you recall anything else about his
1:57:43attire or his rign at that particular
1:57:45night no I didn't paid too much
1:57:46attention to it so at this point would I
1:57:48be again correct that you were concerned
1:57:50about getting out of there at some point
1:57:52is that right yes I wasn't worrying
1:57:53about clothes all right I understand and
1:57:55that wasn't important to you at that
1:57:56point was it no okay so you saw him
1:57:59briefly uh you knew now that there was
1:58:02um luggage all around is that correct
1:58:04yes and you knew that uh K kin was in
1:58:07and about and he had some concerns about
1:58:10uh a perceived earthquake or some noise
1:58:12is that right yes and you saw him with
1:58:14his little tiny flashlight right yes it
1:58:17didn't give off much light correct all
1:58:19right and uh uh at some point you
1:58:22described for us how Mr kin had tried at
1:58:25Point K to get the dog by the way you
1:58:29remember what he called the dog yes what
1:58:31was it what was the dog's name if you
1:58:33recall uh it
1:58:35was a refresh recollection if I said
1:58:37Chachi yeah does that sound about right
1:58:39yes all right so when he was calling uh
1:58:41for this dog Chachi uh to come with him
1:58:44that that was the name he used is that
1:58:46right that he used yeah that when you
1:58:48said that he tried to call the dog yes
1:58:50all right and you were petting the dog
1:58:51yes all right now you also described for
1:58:54us sir that
1:58:57um Mr Simpson and Mr K Kalin uh went
1:59:02into the house on a number of occasions
1:59:05do you recall
1:59:07that I remember Simpson on a number of
1:59:10occasions I don't remember KO I remember
1:59:12they were in the house together at one
1:59:14time yes all right let's take Mr Simpson
1:59:16first if we can this is after Mr Simpson
1:59:18has come out and brought this designer
1:59:21bag and put it down as correct yes and
1:59:23uh this is after now 11:00 is that right
1:59:27that's fair to say yes and uh on how
1:59:30many occasions did you see Mr Simpson go
1:59:32back into the residence there it was two
1:59:36or three times all right and did he go
1:59:37back through that area marked uh
1:59:39entrance there the front entrance there
1:59:41on people 66e for identification yes and
1:59:47uh do you recall how long he stayed in
1:59:50the house on each occasion
1:59:52no all right but you saw him go in at
1:59:55least two or three times is that right
1:59:57yes and uh did you ever walk up and and
2:00:01look at the entryway or the foyer area
2:00:04of that particular residence uh for I
2:00:08remember at one time I think I was
2:00:11actually standing inside there just for
2:00:14a couple seconds inside the for Year let
2:00:17me show you that area and see if Rec
2:00:23uh let me let me just put people's 112
2:00:27for identification and ask Mr Park to
2:00:30take a look at that all right um do you
2:00:33recall that that appears to be the forye
2:00:36area into the front of the Simpson
2:00:39residence that particular night yes that
2:00:41sounds that seems familiar to you yes
2:00:43and uh you see the front door there in
2:00:45that picture with the um kind of the
2:00:47stained glass windows yes I do and that
2:00:50that's the door that you were describing
2:00:51early has having been open is that right
2:00:53yes okay and uh it's your testimony that
2:00:56in the time you saw Mr Simpson come out
2:00:59of the residence and before you left to
2:01:01go to the airport Mr Simpson came back
2:01:04inside that residence two to three times
2:01:07right yes on one of those occasions k o
2:01:10Kalin came inside with him also isn't
2:01:12that correct yes and uh can you tell us
2:01:15where k o Kalin was or how far in the
2:01:18residence he came at that point on uh
2:01:20from what I remember he was just just
2:01:22standing in that area and when you say
2:01:24in that area what are we talking about
2:01:25in the general area of the entrance way
2:01:28just in he never
2:01:30left he never left the uh he never went
2:01:34through any other doors or went upstairs
2:01:36or nothing all right so when you say in
2:01:37that area you're talking you see the
2:01:39area that has the apparently the U the
2:01:41wood floors there yes that's the journal
2:01:43area you're talking about yes right so
2:01:45you saw K kin standing in that area at
2:01:47least on the one occasion he came in yes
2:01:49after
2:01:4911:00 now is that yes yes okay and then
2:01:53you described for us sir that you also
2:01:56may have come in part of the way at some
2:01:58point is that correct yes and can you
2:02:00describe for the jury again where you
2:02:02would have been and where you were I
2:02:04would have just been maybe two or three
2:02:07feet inside the front door all right
2:02:09again you were far enough inside the
2:02:11front door so that you would be on the
2:02:14wood floor the hardwood floors yes all
2:02:16right and
2:02:18um was that at the time when K Kalin was
2:02:21there or was that at the time when Mr
2:02:22Simpson was inside there if you recall I
2:02:25don't recall I can't remember that you
2:02:27just know that on some occasion you came
2:02:29inside at least two to three feet inside
2:02:32that door on one yes as depicted in in
2:02:34people's 112 for identification yes is
2:02:37that right yes and if that door were
2:02:39open uh your vehicle would be parked
2:02:42directly across from the door uh with
2:02:44the driver side door U somewhat parallel
2:02:47to the front door of the Simpson
2:02:49residence is that correct that's correct
2:02:52now when you were inside that forer area
2:02:55some two to three feet inside there uh
2:02:59did you see Mr Simpson at that point
2:03:00where he
2:03:01was uh from what I remember when I was
2:03:04in there he was in the front area also
2:03:07all right some where I was all right
2:03:09when you say the front area where was he
2:03:11in relation to where you were sir would
2:03:12have been farther back into the house
2:03:14all right just from what I remember
2:03:16there's a
2:03:17wall all right so let's assume if I can
2:03:20uh get a word from you if you were 2 to
2:03:233 feet inside the door there Mr Samson
2:03:27would be toward the foreground of this
2:03:29particular picture is that correct yes
2:03:31do he be closer to where that plant is
2:03:33is that correct yes do you do you recall
2:03:36at any point seeing him go into some
2:03:38other room downstairs in the house while
2:03:40you were in there
2:03:42um I can't remember that I wasn't in
2:03:45there very long I remember uh turning
2:03:47around and

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