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[official] Is God Necessary for Morality? William Lane Craig and Louise Antony [1 of 2] — Transcript

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0:01welcome to the Veritas Forum
0:03engaging university students and faculty in discussions about life's hardest
0:06questions and the relevance of jesus Christ to all of life
0:10for more information about The Veritas Forum including additional
0:13recordings and calendar upcoming events please visit our website at www.vertias.org
0:20the following materials copyrighted coming up a duplicated reproduced or
0:24redistributed without prior written consent from their task form
0:28join us as we explore true-life
0:41Good Evening
0:42I would like to thank the Veritas Forum for taking
0:45part in tonight's debate
0:46Professor Antony and I
0:51have previously debate the subject of God
0:55and have the opportunity to continue our discussion this evening
1:00now the question before us this evening is is god necessary fo r morality
1:06notice what the question is not asking
1:09are not asking
1:10whether believe
1:12in god
1:13is necessary for morality. no one in tonight's debate
1:16is arguing that in order to live a moral life
1:20you have to believe in god
1:23rather the question is whether God is necessary for morality
1:28the answer to that question obviously depends on what you mean by morality
1:33if by morality cuming simply a certain pattern of social behavior prevalent
1:38among human beings
1:40then obviously that sort of behavior could still go on
1:43even if it turned out that god does not exist
1:47goddesses
1:47necessary
1:48in order for human beings to exhibit certain patterns of social behavior
1:53which they call acting morally
1:57but enough by morality you mean that certain things are really good or evil
2:02that certain actions are unconditionally obligatory or impermissible
2:08than many atheists and theorists alike agree
2:11but god is indeed necessary for morality
2:15in the absence of god
2:17morality turns out to be just acumen elution
2:22patterns of social behavior might go on without god
2:25but it would be a delusion to think that
2:27uh... such behavior has any objective moral significance
2:32accordingly in tonight's debate
2:34i'm going to argue that god is necessary for morality
2:38in at least three distinct ways
2:41without god objective moral values
2:44moral duties
2:45and moral accountability would not exist
2:49so let's look at that first point together if god does not exist objective
2:54moral values
2:55do not exist
2:57and i said that when we talk about moral values we're talking about something is
3:01good or chemo nazi era chat worldnet
3:05is to say it's a good people independently appointed by the police
3:10yourself
3:13whole hotspot he
3:16is just a all
3:19isn't all that
3:21falls
3:23and it would stop their evil
3:25unit
3:26world war two
3:28ecstasy hit great work exterminating everybody who disagree with them
3:33so uh... huh
3:34the lord
3:37whitehurst's claims together
3:39there is no now and moreover object is
3:43in access
3:45traditionally object
3:49mason na who was the highest
3:52p meatballs
3:56of world
3:57got
3:58holy looking pages lives
4:03against which all ac
4:04information
4:06he has five feature
4:09generous, faithful
4:11just
4:13not yes objective
4:16moral values exist
4:19but if God does
4:21not exist
4:24moral
4:26indeed
4:30war
4:32pollinate used
4:35by-products
4:36major triple relatively recently
4:41although
4:43lost somewhere in a hostel
4:47would
4:49painfully
4:51before time
4:54moral
4:55arches byproduct about biological evolution
4:59actual all vision
5:02just as a trial
5:04species cooper
5:05themselves sacrificial here
5:08because
5:09selection pretended to be act
5:11pages sources hole
5:14so there
5:16solicited
5:17seller here
5:19foreperson
5:20persons
5:21as a result socio byline
5:25there'd carl state for
5:29which is useful
5:30it'd be a perpetuation parsons
5:33but obviously cc opt sings
5:38it's
5:42below sci fi rooms reports
5:45the position at the bottom of the business fears the humans
5:48awareness program
5:50the cross-section awareness is biological work
5:53more items of biological lactation
5:59considers
6:03checked something
6:05disputes illusory
6:07i'd appreciate it was so upset
6:10interest cell
6:12they are different themselves
6:15nevertheless rent out
6:20eighties
6:22and reproduction
6:24and any deeper meaning
6:26is
6:28evening works have been y
6:30the film human evolution back
6:33it's start
6:35people with a very himself
6:37moral grounds will have mall
6:39astounds world said
6:43worrier precisely the same conditions said
6:48their part our mary emails would like to worries
6:53is sick
6:57and mother's striking killer rulers and not walk with a abuser
7:04developing human beings special
7:07an hour
7:10is com
7:11to the temptation to the species
7:14untouched
7:16the all species
7:21worthless it
7:23him
7:25is underscored
7:26protectionism
7:28materialism
7:30determinants
7:33stereotypically materials
7:35srinagar
7:41no materials
7:43tours outcall soul or line
7:46whatever
7:48the quality
7:50problem
7:51she's archer's apology
7:54there's he said
7:59address
8:00when a terrorist bomb
8:02reduced to a bar backpack
8:04all really
8:05and speed
8:07uh... molecules
8:09is he allure
8:13here's mom
8:14district bring
8:16and everything
8:18any
8:19is that far apart
8:20five cents
8:22okay
8:24there's for result heated lease
8:29but without not our choices it's morally sick they're like jerks of apartments
8:35controllers dissension and physical
8:41homeworld
8:43warrants foods
8:45return bonuses
8:48many press
8:50beaudoin on use innocent mistake when he says
8:54there
8:57knows
8:58nao
9:01what was did
9:03we are machines for probably going to be a day
9:06it used to
9:07uh... textiles
9:12if there is no god
9:13basis regarding
9:15the burt
9:17all state
9:20stupid who job picture
9:24policy
9:26statewide creature times dust
9:30with dilutions of or
9:35his not
9:37objective moral tiffany's
9:40exist
9:41duties whether something is right
9:44or role
9:46university hit
9:48wants the same abstention good people
9:53bud
9:54and see if this isn't the case
9:57d
9:57has to do with moral application
10:01or ought not
10:04about but you're not
10:05morally obligated to do something just because it would be good
10:09for you to do it
10:11it would be great preview to become a doctor
10:15witchhunt morally are quick to become a doctor
10:18after all it would also be good for you to be are clarified or a homemaker
10:23org
10:24but hit the ball
10:26so did principle
10:29and moral these
10:32not likely
10:32listed god does not exist
10:35that we have no to active
10:37moral these
10:39decide
10:42it
10:43to send me
10:44moral obligations
10:46regardless of what we think that we do
10:50traditionally
10:51our moral duties will talk to spring
10:54mam such as the ten
10:57fire from the arteries meant
11:00flow from god's spirit nature
11:03on his foundation we confirm the object of rights lot generosity self-sacrifice
11:09equality
11:12had
11:14cell
11:15heater use pressure
11:17and discrimination
11:21there is no god what pieces remains or objective moral use
11:26obviously you human beings are just happens
11:31all he's on
11:34when a lot
11:35kills
11:36easy rib it tells his team
11:39but it does not
11:42went great white shark forcibly conflicts with the female it forcefully
11:46conflicts with their
11:50for none of these things has the moral dimension their your productivity
11:54nor laboratory
11:57it's not one
11:59thank moral obligations to do
12:04imposes
12:06world obligations watchword
12:09it's very hard to see wire
12:11e war
12:12this subject depressions
12:15arrives
12:16review to aspire societal
12:18and parental condition
12:21obviously
12:22natin such a great
12:24and instead
12:25made up
12:27lee solution good
12:30insulin courses
12:31about contact with
12:34systems
12:35ditional read says
12:38is really wall
12:39safety goes on all
12:44on the agency rapist votes against the herd morality
12:49he's doing nothing more serious
12:52aboard like
12:53abandon lunches loudly later today
12:56if there is no moral or paper
12:59there's watch it will all use
13:03obey
13:05hardly if god does not exist then there is no basis for moral accountability
13:12traditionally it's been helping couples all persons morally accountable for
13:16their actions
13:17just fine
13:18unique qualities this life
13:20india scales god's justice will be back
13:24bust of moral choices we make in this lifetime fuse fifty tunnel significance
13:31godless dont
13:33than what basis remains for moral accountability
13:37even if it were objective moral values
13:40duties on your atheism
13:42they seem to be around for because there's no moral accountability
13:46if you'd like to be great
13:48equal delete made spelled
13:51when lip stalin
13:53or at some other tourists
13:55as the russian writer your last i guess ripe instead
13:59if there is no mortality
14:01that always
14:03our permit
14:04given to find out
14:06the really dot
14:10yet
14:11the state torturers and communist prisons
14:14into sort
14:17retired former reports
14:20the cruelty of these is
14:21hard to believe
14:23hassle-free reported through it or the punishment people there is no reason to
14:28be human
14:29there is no restraint from the depths of the evil which is
14:33the communists were to resolve and said
14:36there is no god note here after no punishment for evil
14:40we could do what we which
14:42i had heard one torturers even say
14:45are playing
14:45copy and mike totally
14:48but i hope that it is not what i can express all evil empire
14:52the expressly 'em
14:54believable route
14:56torture
14:57inflicted on chris
15:00to find out to get the active really does not bad
15:04how that
15:06so website someone conclusively may as well just
15:11few ourself
15:13you might say that it's in our best self-interest
15:16to adopt a moral lifestyle
15:18but clearly that's not always true we almost situations which one route two
15:23months back
15:25of self-interest
15:27moreover
15:28one is sufficiently powerful like
15:31marcos or a papa doc dot new york mcdonald try
15:35i want to pretty much
15:36inordinate it's actions
15:39and safety but itself belgians
15:42distorting stuart c eastern sums it up twelve dn rights
15:46there is no objective reasons why
15:48entry moral
15:50unless far-out pays off you socialize
15:53makes him feel good there is no objective reasons why i mentioned the
15:57way
15:58say for the places
16:02to believe that the job does not exist and that there is just another world
16:07culpability
16:08would be quite
16:09literally d
16:10former allies
16:14that our moral choices are ultimately insignificant
16:17successful outfit
16:19at that
16:19matters
16:20are alternately the same regardless of what we do
16:24bike demoralization image duration
16:28a moral motivation
16:29its heart to do the right that when it conflicts with your own self-interest
16:35and it's hard to resist temptation to come on desire is strong
16:39and i believe that all too but we can't does not matter what
16:42choose to do
16:43is actress ones morals so undermine
16:47once worldwide
16:48as robert adams observes
16:50and regards very unlikely that history first will not be put on the whole no
16:55matter what dust
16:57seems that
16:58produces cynical sense of futility a baltimore life
17:02undermining once moral rizal
17:04anyone's interests
17:06in moral considerations
17:09since of moral accountability from a philosophy of eight years investment act
17:13of compassion
17:15and self-sacrifice
17:16aho extract
17:19insights plausible without doubt there are no objective moral bad
17:23no object
17:24moral duties and don't world ability
17:27god's therefore vitally necessary four correct
17:32as i said this is a conclusion is accepted by whom he he he was
17:35philosopher such as the check
17:37russell
17:38and start
17:39diluted solution is a painful
17:42these thinkers believe that
17:44house interfaces where
17:46the challenge confronting it just a lot to provide professor acton continues to
17:51cling to objective moral values duties after let go of god's therefore
17:56threefold
17:58to explain what was the basis of objective moral happens
18:02eight years
18:03any particular was the basis for the intrinsic value gains
18:08second to explain what is the source of objective moral duties on his what make
18:13certain that obligatory forbidden if there is a world wanted her to come
18:18government
18:19edgar
18:20to explain how
18:21use them
18:22ultimate moral accountability tutsis
18:25or alternatively quite is not necessary four wrapped
18:35well i'm really happy to be here tonight to have the opportunity to discuss this
18:39really work fascinating question
18:42with doctor craig mccaw here
18:44and thanks very much to thailand's very tough for settings top trade for
18:49agreeing to participate conversation
18:53all of my friends high who had been are helping me think about the same right
18:59uh... signaled support
19:02patient part
19:05progress that we've seen made
19:08the question before us tonight is whether god is necessary route
19:12that you might think that this is a question it was necessarily divide here
19:16from eighty state you believe in god must be picked up the stores
19:20orthographic route
19:22and that you don't leave then you must believe that rallies independent
19:26with react
19:28many eighty s agreed with doctor craig dot is necessary
19:32an improvement in the premise that god doesn't exist
19:36that there is no
19:37no objective writer raw
19:39dr rate quoted some of the city's tonight
19:43so instead re are
19:46together
19:47on the other
19:48this might be surprising to something
19:51peers
19:52like many s
19:53belief that god is not necessary
19:56and at what is right right
19:58pecans
20:00so the position that i'm going to be and if the position
20:04marketplace altered
20:07indeed
20:09apartment at my position on this issue is immoral highest right
20:14that
20:15tasteful
20:16you've got insisting it's perfectly good
20:20position is the position that dot
20:22want
20:24the reason is that it only rallies indeed
20:29it we can make moral sense
20:32it's only a plurality independent dot
20:35anything world
20:38for reviewing the palestinians
20:40dr transposition can give us the past self-interested reasons for being
20:45it's doctor predisposition dot mom that's destructive rally
20:50but let me back up
20:53maybe some people are surprised just to learn eight yrs ever believer that they
20:58can't believe that there are objective more truths
21:01that they're really moral obligation to moral virtues
21:04i gather that some people think that it simply follows for making isn't that
21:08there is no greater wrong with that
21:10it dot you if god is not exist everything as per minute
21:13but this does not follow
21:15i think he's and i believe that some things are morally something's immorally
21:20wrong
21:21numbers contradiction
21:23i believe for example
21:25that it's wrong to drive people from their homes ridiculed because she walked
21:29away
21:30i believe that it's wrong to enslave
21:33i believe that it's wrong to tortured prisoners of war
21:36they also believe that one sees any of the things going on
21:39one has a suburb moral obligation to try to stop
21:44but do i think these matters are object
21:47yes in at least three cents is objective and it's actually complicated
21:52philosophical issues acted what needs to be objective
21:55your three cents is there
21:56fairly standard
21:59i think that whether something is right or wrong or to take out the crater i
22:02think
22:03uh... doctor pay directly realistically
22:06first i think that whether something's right wrong does not depend attitudes
22:10towards
22:11in this respect moral judgments are true or false and just the way not important
22:15that's our by correspondent for failing to correspond with the way the world is
22:20so i called the claim that slavery was wrong
22:23is not always when the chocolate it's delicious
22:26backplane simply expresses my head or talked his extremely popular
22:33the judgment of slavery stallings rather like the plane chocolate contains
22:37anti-oxidants
22:39that's a claim about the with the world's
22:42so i definitely world's specifically about chart
22:48objectivity in this tax
22:49also means that the moral backs are as they are
22:52independently humans human beings knowledge of
22:56we can be irritable acts and we can make mistakes about
23:00some people think that abortion is morally permissible
23:02an obvious denying it
23:05someone here is making a mistake someone's right someone's wrong
23:09notice in contrast nicely chocolates delicious you say no it isn't
23:14we are really disagreeing about the objective features a truck
23:17recently expressing contrary attitudes towards
23:21neither of us is making a mistake
23:24well i take it
23:25trop systems
23:28there's a second sem project in which i think moral back start to active and
23:32that is that they're independent human well
23:34is not up two months to decide what is right what is wrong
23:38in a way that you thought of us to decide what the rules of baseball team
23:42with the traffic laws
23:44we can decide what it is for someone to be a good baseball player because
23:47conditions dad
23:49but not ladies to be a good person
23:52for i hope the morality of objective in the sense that the universal
23:57i not relatives
23:59the fundamental moral facts do not change the culture to culture
24:04nor is the fact that one's culture can go on something
24:07make that paying anyway morally bright
24:10in the examples that i've given about
24:12deliberately chose things that working starkly or are currently
24:16regarded as morally permissible within my own culture
24:20i'm gonna try imbibe policy keep by examples real-life cases consider facing
24:26us
24:28i don't care if these things are regarded as morally permissible by some
24:31people and repudiate
24:33slavery as well
24:35tortures uh... even at the loss of one's country
24:39now what doctor craig needs to show is that none of these specific moral
24:43judgments where these planes about the nature of moral judgments in general
24:46indeed true austin texas
24:49that seems to me carpal
24:52if got turned out not so six and slavery would be ok there's nothing wrong with
24:56dr
24:57what could possibly make something
25:00the only answer this question i can't think of is that god is but
25:03makes more strip
25:05that the things that are morally good
25:07are the things that god is mandatory source and they're good because it's
25:11mandatory source
25:13mysterious called on mandy
25:16documentary
25:18one explain certain things about that
25:22because dialysis independently
25:24acumen being painted
25:26is committed to
25:28we didn't at that time so we didn't invent morale
25:31we can get it out
25:32mistaken about what is morally dot
25:35because god is on the present
25:37internal dismantle flight to our place our people at all times not placed
25:43that's haha
25:44it would follow department erie that moral baxter chapter
25:49the problem is it wouldn't follow that they are
25:53the argument
25:54for this line is a nation twenty-two plato
25:57his style of music
25:59but i don't care principally misconception side socrates
26:03appliance its
26:05it
26:06are those that are marked by the dot
26:09thirty-five definition ambiguous and asks if perot
26:14acts highest because they're welcome hots
26:17arent
26:18but by the gods because their clients
26:22and what's the difference
26:23all of the first reading is correct
26:25an expert doctor watching those particular acts
26:28it makes them have attacked
26:30the grounds that biases
26:32ties on this alternatives just shot him
26:36something that hot spot
26:37whatever they got satellite ankara abstracts
26:41constipation purpose
26:43preferences on a plan and it did arguments
26:46than the things that are pies change right along with them
26:50in contrast to the second thing
26:51ice packs per person to have a substantive property com
26:56a property in virtue of which the facebook
26:59a property that explains walk
27:01icons
27:03not translate into contemporary terms
27:05depression socrates is asking is this
27:08morally good actions morally good
27:11simply in parts of the fact that favors
27:14orchestra
27:15eva
27:16because they are independently exp
27:19morally up
27:21mandira corresponds to the first option
27:24itself and be right back
27:26etc dot
27:27favors
27:28that makes morally things morally good things
27:30morally good
27:32that the reason endorsed the second option let's call that any such theory
27:36define independence theory
27:39these theories content on the contrary
27:41but the goodness of inaction is a picture that is independent up
27:45and into seat to the predates god's growing
27:49dot could have manage exception
27:52or the house
27:54but in fact he chooses to boot
27:57ultraviolet man here's and divide hemispheres
28:01intelligence going to be a perfect correspondence between the plan actions
28:05the pac man for the one hand
28:07in the class of actions that are gone
28:09ratatouille adsorption god's perfect now
28:13the two theories differ however on what accounts for this can growers
28:18man jury says it's god's commands explains why the acts are
28:23that's right
28:24it becomes true merely by definition
28:27the documents
28:28hood actions
28:30lettuce on this issue becomes an empty
28:34he has no independent content
28:37divine independence theories on the other hand say that it is a substantive
28:40property of the acts
28:42here blackness
28:44explains why god man
28:48i can't even further and say that if the goodness of the things that god chooses
28:52that next time
28:55guys mime-version choosing only the morally good
29:00independent spirit persons that we have an independent asked that
29:05and that we can use that
29:07to protect and understand what god would prefer
29:11now that's a pretty tired appreciate just how crappy bizarre fine man he
29:16really is
29:18during makes the claim
29:19finance the good into a mere definitional fatality
29:23bachelors from there
29:25this next are really appalling consequences from intuit moral point of
29:29view
29:30mandy retails that anything at all could be good
29:34or rights for rock making this funny gesture
29:38with party indicate quotation marks
29:41do you think it would cost wants to indicate using these words
29:45with the strange music
29:47define mantri true
29:49it carter to continue the research on
29:52yet to be bright it would be right each our children
29:56the consequences are also pollack religious point of view because define
29:59mathiri classic and have no moral reason for being passed man's
30:04immediately have credential reasons for doing so
30:07stopped disagreed
30:10dot is extremely powerful and certainly esophagus today
30:14at the same can be sent tyrants
30:17and we have no moral optus speaking now ordinary turns to obey tyrants
30:22do you have a moral obligation to do something
30:26the same goes for worshipping
30:29we might find it in our interested flat plate made such a powerful person
30:33but there'd be no way topless dancer appraise victory
30:39yet
30:40him going to object out quite not or at least without since
30:46the reason is not sick
30:48that god's nature is essentially good
30:51and in fact it's also supposed to explain why we ought to pick up my
30:54matured works
30:56but on system
30:59what is it about good about god
31:01that makes him
31:04god's moral properties did not follow snapple powers
31:08is omnipotent service of nations
31:10nor do they follow back in the created the universe for even that he created
31:14offs
31:16it is certainly conceivable
31:18that the creator of the universe
31:19was a powerful intelligent
31:22tyrants
31:23malicious commands at this hour
31:25if it turned out it is not just in empty ap
31:28that we tested the creator
31:30who were white cap that turns out to be
31:33and it must be at the facts about what is good
31:36are independent of the other facet dot com
31:38it might have to have normative force it must be something understand
31:44of once commanded by some powerful
31:47omnipresent
31:50another thing that defenders that
31:51uh... department reminds is that we can orthodox good
31:55by looking at the kinds of things that he has in fact commander
31:59now i actually think this is a slightly dangerous strategy sisters recent actual
32:03evidence
32:04the crimes committed some pretty bad banks for housing market
32:08batsman face a shopping complexes creatures can man's only twice but for
32:13that
32:15but this week by arsonists point
32:17even the words log and good in this context hatin on normative meetings
32:22asset
32:23heinbuck animals
32:25i think they're delicious
32:27in which case began to have no moral basis for pain
32:31or the words looking good
32:33norman's
32:34in which case we once again presuppose
32:37if we can make sense of what is subject to flee good independently but pak
32:41convenience
32:43in short it has to be god's goodness tickets agrees to a big question
32:48and not on your back sets
32:51but then goodness has to be substantive property
32:54and not an empty formal term is defined as just whatever way god it's to be
33:00as a matter of fact i doubt that there are many of these people
33:03who really redefine and gary
33:06if there were then there would be you were interpreted copies
33:09surrounding stories the bible
33:11depict dot many things we would ordinarily participle atrocities
33:16some he would say primaries genocides standoff fifteen three
33:22or anti-communism artist liners
33:25document it so it's good
33:27but of course this is not be added to atlas which is people take twenty
33:31stories
33:32most people struggle to make sense of
33:34in like their moral act
33:36at killing innocent children is wrong
33:39indeed
33:40ordering a carrot two killers child
33:43even if you don't intend to put them through it
33:46if these attacks are wrong
33:48and god is good
33:50there must be some stay
33:52we must be misinterpreted
33:54dot that's not really met these things
33:57restaurant that what is that he actually did
34:01for this sort interpreted practice to make sense
34:05it must be that we haven't yet received grants we already know four-wheel rico
34:09ask fans
34:11what moral rights is
34:14in all of these cases reflected morally response
34:17which is people
34:18find reason to reject surface readings scripture and other ortega tax
34:23when such tax appeared to attribute to god he takes the conflict with common
34:27sense around
34:29but if defined
34:30here is true
34:32if there's nothing to worldliness concoct preferences
34:35there can be no rationale for seeking alternate reads it morally troubling tax
34:40picking up and morally troubling
34:42about endorsement of slavery or command to vigilante violence or to genocide
34:48because according to department gary
34:50there's no moral standard independently aswell
34:54is only
34:54yet he myself
34:56moral witnesses of property
35:00an expletive uh... out too well
35:03than a c any sense to question reports apparently impl
35:08in short
35:10that's existence is not only not necessary around
35:13it is not na
35:15dot but also be good
35:17for the claim that god is good to me anything
35:20espy uh...
35:24thank you doctor hansen
35:25it's all in the second round i will happen
35:29presentations up ten minutes each and we will begin with doctor craig
35:37now this is still working right okay good
35:40but he's not going to be very very stimulating comments i think that
35:44working for a good exchange tonight
35:47now you recall that he and of my opening speech kind by
35:50you to listen carefully to how doctor entity would address three fundamental
35:56questions
35:57if god does not exist what is the basis for objective moral values
36:03moral duties
36:04and moral accountability
36:06did you notice that dr anthony didn't not addressed any of those issues in her
36:11opening statement nothing which he said
36:14gives us any clues as to what sort of positive attraction whittier
36:18of the bassist for world values moral duties and world accountability
36:23on eight years
36:25what she did instead was to go up the offensive
36:29and argued the moral values
36:32depend upon dot
36:33they must be in japan
36:35that the good is something that is arbitrarily will uh... god
36:40or that that was something that exist independently about
36:45rather that you've had a defendant opening speech disney's beauty
36:49traditionally theorists have taken mainly
36:52that god will something
36:54because ke is good
36:57that has to say
36:58what plato called look good
37:02the moral nature of god himself
37:04goddess by nature
37:06loving con impartial fair trust and so on
37:10sheet list
37:11the paradigm
37:12appointments and therefore the glue it is not independent
37:16about
37:18moreover got commandments are unnecessary expression obvious moral
37:23nature his commands to a so therefore not arbitrary
37:27practice their reflections of his character
37:30and therefore it makes no sense to ask
37:32if god were to come and ask that you have children
37:36what do you write
37:37duty our children
37:39this proposition hasn't impossible
37:42antecedent
37:43and therefore no non-trivial truth athletes like
37:48if there were a square circle
37:51when it's area in the square of one of these sites
37:55the question just has no meaningful answer because it's a logically and
37:59coherent
38:00not dot granted yes intimation of this third alternative
38:05for she recognizes that the u_s_ will say that god's nature is he sexually
38:11woodstock exactly the point
38:14rather the point yes
38:15the god's nature determines
38:18what used to it
38:20she objects tissue because then we would have no understanding
38:24but what it means to say kat used to it
38:28she says
38:29for the complaint that god is good to me
38:31eat anything the good must be independence about
38:37this objection i think your body's important confusion levy for state what
38:42confusion yes
38:44and explain it
38:45doctor hansen is confusing i think moral ontology
38:50with moral semantics
38:52now twenty by that
38:54well the discipline of moral philosophy is something about it into a number of
38:57different fields for example
39:00moral semantics
39:02steps to me
39:03up moral terms and sentences
39:06morally cus d'amato t studies how uncomfortable knowledge uh... moral
39:11truths
39:12moral ontology studies the metaphysics of morals their foundation entry
39:17balloting
39:19when we say that the good is grounded in god
39:23does is impossible odds
39:26about moral values foundation in reality
39:30it is not
39:32a semantic coldplay
39:34about the meeting of the word cooler
39:38completely dr
39:40the semantically gauntness is not bashing puts it and empty formal term
39:46that is defined as
39:48just whatever way godliness
39:50i concur wholeheartedly
39:53that the word but must actually says
39:56be something that we can understand independently what's coming
40:01by a powerful lobby presently
40:03the has typically maintain
40:05but god is the onto a logical foundation
40:09of moral values
40:10without him objective alex would not exist
40:14but the question not maintain the law civil
40:17semantic all uses
40:19the word
40:21these any like
40:23commanded live
40:24dot
40:26if you throw arguments as a false alarm
40:29and therefore logically invalid does nothing to show that moral values cannot
40:34the grounded god
40:36nature determines what is good
40:39his nature expresses itself toward asking the form of divine
40:43maps
40:44which did constitute our moral duties
40:47is this alternative
40:49the doctor hansen show to be impossible not strongman
40:52like dots inventing arbitrarily good
40:55or the goods being something to which got a subservient outside of himself
41:01not without them
41:02linchpin of the pro argument doctor activities
41:06case for objective morality without god
41:09collapses
41:11she must be active song
41:12possibly account
41:14uh... to those three questions i quote sold one return to those questions to
41:19review the challenge confronting the eighties
41:22first you've got synopsis wife be objective
41:26moral values would exist
41:29as we saw in the absence of god there's no reason to think that they heard
41:32morality ball quite curious human societies is objectively true
41:37ransom since incredulous she says
41:40if you've got turned out not to insistence slavery would be okay
41:44there'd be nothing wrong with torture
41:46what could possibly make someone believed that
41:50the accident rates that are naturalistic worldview human beings are just animals
41:55and actually the cancerous literate
41:58and torture
41:59is common and naturally the animal kingdom and oc moral
42:03yes
42:04for example
42:05enslaved i think that's till later in the deaths of the actual rather prison
42:10for life advancement out rationality
42:13than empty morality would consider slavery to be morally jobs
42:17remembered our principles tration
42:19of human beings raised under the conditions like the highs
42:23as for torture
42:25had never seen ordinary house cat toward within miles
42:29until it finally force of the sport and kills it
42:32if there is a good god what makes slavery torture among human beings
42:37uniquely
42:39hounding strange
42:41not natural moral properties come to superbly upon the members of actions of
42:46power species
42:48this questions especially pressing recall those two implications of
42:52naturalists
42:53namely materialism determinism it's impossible that something that is
42:57essentially a pop up
42:59or a machine
43:01can have if moral dimension
43:03to gets actions
43:06secondly if not does not exist for i think that we have to be objective moral
43:10obligations or prohibitions
43:13the problem here for g yes i think it's very easy to see if there's anybody
43:18to come and or prohibit certain actions
43:21then how can we count moral publications
43:24and probably shifts
43:25all doctor and said he had to sit on his forty s i had an atheist and i believe
43:30that something so morally right and some things are morally wrong where six
43:33contradiction
43:35well the problem is that there's a contradiction but rather that there's no
43:39basis on the atheistic worldview for the affirmation that something so bright
43:44and summarize to safety experts say i had an atheist and i believe the
43:49chocolate
43:50is subject to believe delicious
43:52and regular subjectively revolted where's the contradiction
43:56the propagandists that itself contradictory but rabbit a subjective
44:01assertion without any basis
44:04reality
44:06finally on his religious views no moral accountability lta latest apollo
44:11separate model convert nice
44:13got isn't necessary postulate moral res
44:17for only he can guarantee that happiness will be proportion to for cheap
44:22exit onto the or relevance fundamentally when you get this fundamental wat
44:27unsatisfied on his morality is altered leafing tile inconsequential
44:34soak in summary that i think that he was the pro-market histologically invalid
44:39therefore fails to prove that moral values exist independently of god
44:44on the contrary expiry possible that audience and there are no objective
44:48moral values moral duties or moral accountability
44:52and therefore i think we have every region
44:55that god gives vitally necessary to morality
45:02thank you got the cranking out prevented from docking into me
45:09okay
45:10um... well as i expected dot drake is reported to you that there are many a
45:14peace agreement and without contacting rally
45:17absolutely correct
45:19uh... absolutely irrelevant to the topic today
45:22on a_b_c_ recently rejected or because i think michael andrews is wrong richard
45:27dawkins is strong i think that uh...
45:30crosswalk
45:32didn't make their work tactical to c_ span
45:34monster
45:37great britain
45:40uh... because you refused to pay more taxes for war lovely housing
45:46what doctor cotton's shows is something wrong with my position
45:49and you can't do that just fine
45:51disagree
45:52but doctor craig needs to show is that nihilism the view that there's no
45:56technical
45:57follows from a case
45:59i haven't seen any other
46:01well there's one art
46:03but its fault
46:05dr craig said that they use must believe that human beings are quote just animals
46:09annexes
46:11animals have no moral obligations for each other
46:13uh... elitist view that human beings have no more
46:18they're two separate thousands here
46:21first if it doesn't file from x's and o
46:24that exceeds only now
46:26that is that accepts no properties
46:28undergrad property tax has virtually been
46:31it doesn't even for expression
46:35animals
46:36my dog is an animal season only and she's many other
46:40since many other properties
46:41she is the property being attacked
46:43she has a psychological problem
46:45property being more
46:46feelings have lots of props
46:48younger biological clock
46:50and lots of properties that other human that other animals
46:54or different months we have the capacity to make plans two thousand beauty and to
46:59reflect on our own behavior
47:01these are morally important partners
47:04properties that make us morally valuable pictures in the generate more
47:08obligations
47:09that doctor crapes missus pell siebert he had
47:13it doesn't file from the fact that we are made of molecules that we are only
47:17molecule
47:19their collections of molecules on their collections of molecules
47:22some other works as a models constitute your objects like rocks
47:26but some positive living sentient beings beats hopes and fears of beliefs and
47:31values
47:32those collections of molecules because they also have these other properties
47:36are morally import
47:39but the point is simple
47:40what matters to the kind of thing you are is not what you made a rummy at the
47:45same stuff alternately
47:46but rather how all this stuff to me has put together i was organized for four
47:52what's the difference between a piece of copper wire copper point
47:55not to stop
47:56concepts copper bookcases
47:59we can't even imagine very same lump of copper bisbee respect for the first into
48:03wired and melted down and accidental point
48:06the full field organic chemistry access because they're many substances
48:10and very different properties
48:12you know it at the same temple
48:14orgs
48:15like or at the meeting and i said
48:17both c for each day
48:19these are some more stick isomers dick rutan kinds or i'd or numbers of
48:24molecules
48:26way all reached
48:28penetration of molecules needed to compose a human being is extraordinarily
48:32complex
48:33and gives rise creatures had brains and nervous systems
48:38that assault on capacity
48:40for consciousness
48:41self-consciousness rational thought
48:44for sympathy
48:45and for a sense of justice for capacity to recognize
48:49these very same capacities
48:50in other creatures
48:52in-store have act
48:54zebra stuff happens
48:55sharks don't have
48:57creatures who
48:58these capacities
49:00are creatures spots of passing down
49:04no eight spend all materials
49:06has to accept
49:08if the child is killed by a bomb
49:10quote all that happens is that rearrangement of the molecules studio
49:16saxonhouse doctor crimes are committed to your in doubt
49:20or question
49:22dip anyway
49:24animals have no moral obligations
49:26it means that some people spend our moral obligations
49:30then the arguments invalid
49:31has the same forms this one
49:34some animals cannot talk human beings are animals therefore human beings
49:38cannot talk
49:41bikinis dorling animals have moral obligations to each other
49:45any arctic begs the question it seems that they don't suppose to be group
49:49it human beings are at least samples
49:53and there are cannot
49:55that have a moral obligation to reach a namely us
49:59now hurt roberts most analysts is something that's this week's okay
50:04uh... housing
50:05list of most anticipated sets the moral obligations
50:08business going
50:10uh... animals have no moral significance at all
50:13many of us have the path your pain
50:16and that means that we human beings
50:19who recognize the fact that they can feel
50:22and could appreciate the moral significance the fact that picture
50:26him feel pain
50:27we have a moral obligations toward things
50:31abiotic chocolate at the base route
50:33dr craig said that i must explain the bases that jacket moral values
50:38nine must explain what the source of jected beauties
50:43well i don't have an outpatient were propagated by burden of proof volleyball
50:47here a little bit but
50:50kaplan grounds rejecting an answer to a question
50:54even if i don't have any other it off
50:57considered the question the origins of whitewater
50:59some people think that white was brought here by the number-one aliens
51:04i have good reason to think that this theory as ronald out knowing called
51:08white
51:09damaged
51:10i don't have a plan
51:11doctor crapes theories about the basis of moral true is not theory
51:16that's what you prefer chips
51:18it showed the cops mere existence
51:21is insufficient just groundwork obligation
51:24uni dot byrd dot distances you need for cokie
51:27twenty what
51:29so i can reject doctor crapes theory even if i have no other wario
51:35handed
51:38strapped
51:39if he wants to know what about the world makes it true that example what's wrong
51:43cheat
51:44worked well
51:46if the objective
51:47rhonda's achi more people
51:50if you want to explanation of why
51:52mrs parker tell us
51:54it's wrong consistent just
51:56it's wrong because it costs me suffering
51:59false conservation step obviously
52:03and acts whether or not access and their sufficient to explain
52:08winds actions along
52:10now it is wrong to kill innocent children
52:13with bombs in order to achieve political all strong right away
52:18whether this is done by st louis
52:20or by the press
52:21most powerful country in the world
52:24such things well costs
52:26the child's best
52:27be costly will cause the child to suck
52:30be costing or carl enlisted outsmart once
52:34for countless other reasons as well
52:37all of these reasons but he says
52:39even dot t_
52:41cargo partner a power exists and is good
52:45thank you casket y
52:47verbatim doing these things
52:49excite exactly the same reasons
52:52there's something objectively true about such actions
52:56explains why dot herpes
52:59with beautiful argument shows is that your documents arbitrary
53:03in which case we have no moral obligation
53:06were it not
53:07and god bless reasons for committing dance
53:11but it does respond to reasons when he issues his commands
53:15and the reasons have to exist independently
53:17a receipt
53:20and what makes more obvious low
53:23uh... one explanations of extorted
53:26very basic there not more obligations unless there's someone there
53:29alistair
53:30that seems to be story plane i don't know whether dot great documents not
53:36talk
53:36camels
53:38and thing but certainly perhaps a grunt work for him
53:41beta is supposed to be outlaws environment paper
53:45it with me are all mcad think owns
53:51dot taking additional time
53:53and that is if you have these cannot distinguish between what some of the
53:56great man's engine moral obligations
53:59i can't and they do feel very early age
54:02psychologist elliott's rail
54:04has shown his children between these two three four
54:07recognize that moral rules have forced independently of any particular report
54:13larry
54:14has shown that even children adolescents raised in strict religious traditions
54:18orthodox judaism bosses' and
54:20now mister reform
54:22distinguished morality religious authority
54:25listened to marcia and i have to go to restore interviewer
54:28suppose that god had written in the torah
54:30that you should steal documented auctions to steal videotape and for jews
54:35to steal
54:38interviewer why not
54:41no
54:41upgrade
54:43you know it's really offering the person they take it from
54:45we are
54:46we don't have a great
54:49accountability
54:50i find this section
54:51really bizarre
54:52dr great criticizes those that used to think that there's nothing to morality
54:56picnic self-interest
55:00sop
55:01after great seagate recently in wichita
55:06he had no your tour animation or help determine or
55:10nine greedy people be reportedly christianson white hit
55:14structure here its entrance
55:16structures resent this go on
55:20artists such assurances to learn the total soprano like at a higher his
55:24son-in-law
55:25that doesn't get your morals that he would want to miss out
55:29in contrast i_c_u_ your everyday people do what's right makes sacrifices wife
55:35thanks
55:35not because they expect to be reported fourth not because they're confident
55:39possible try
55:41it's because people eat passionately what they're doing
55:45dr crisis your objective moral townsend duties and you relevant because there's
55:50no
55:52irrelevant
55:54don't sweat it out to do
55:57east africa dismissing you have not as if people do good things and say i'd
56:01just like to out addicts with the right
56:05i don't think that's puzzling were relevant outlined outline
56:11not listen really thinks the goodness in people are unintelligible site contact
56:15of a quasi contract made with tyrant
56:18within oceans turned out to be synonymous with quality truck
56:21mortgage
56:31reducing tactically national record at a crime
56:46before i look at the specific arguments again this evening let me read you the
56:50general logic
56:51what's been said tonight
56:54dot granted i have not been he's able to provide escape basis on eight years of
56:58britain thinking big human beings have objective moral value objective moral
57:03duties or moral accountability
57:05orders usage
57:07need to do that because she has this beautiful argument which shows that
57:11moral values cannot depend upon dot and that's where as i said this arguments
57:16the linchpin in her case if that goes
57:19the whole case collapses
57:21now she has not dealt with my third alternative to these perot argument the
57:25youth bro argument is simply false dilemma
57:28the good is there something our bittermann invented by god or something
57:32garson served
57:34the good just because the nature of god himself and expresses itself for us in
57:39the form of mystifying
57:41yes provide technologically coherent basis for objective moral values duties
57:46and moral accountability
57:48the only response you gave him her last
57:50speech was to save the children from the very early stages
57:54are able to recognize
57:55moral values and moral duties without
57:58any traineeship work
57:59this is ingrained into a spy biological
58:03uh... evolution
58:04as well as parental condition steven pinker who is uh... psychologist harvard
58:10university in an article in january this year
58:12has written a following
58:14he says the scientific outlook as far as that some parts of our subjective
58:18experience
58:19are products of our biological make
58:22and had no objective counterpart in the world
58:25the tasty nasa fruit in the problem was a character
58:28the stereotypes of heights in the previous of flowers are pictures of our
58:32car
58:32nervous system
58:34and of course theses had evolved in a different ecosystem
58:37or were missing a few jeans our reactions to go the other way
58:42the distinction between right and one desconco a product of bread
58:46wiring
58:48why should we believe that it is getting more real
58:51and it is just a collective hallucination
58:53how could we argued that he was like genocide against slavery are wrong for
58:58everyone rather than just distasteful to us
59:02peter has no solution to this problem and therefore adoption not objected to
59:07spew morality
59:08doctor anthony wright five said you morally appoint as to why
59:13but the question is why on his appointment naturalism newspaper wrong
59:18and doctor hansen right it seems to me to your commitment to objective moral
59:22values and duties which i applaud
59:24is simply a faith commitment it's a faith commitment of a naturalist for
59:29which
59:29the naturalist worldview provides no onto logical foundation
59:33what i'm offering is not a different set of moral values
59:37but a foundation for those moral values
59:39that we both cold here
59:42and cherish but which is lacking
59:43naturalistic worldview
59:45technocrats
59:46reporter objective in moral values would exist in the absence of god we saw
59:50there isn't i'm
59:52naturalism any basis for affirming intrinsic value
59:56committees as opposed to other species she says
59:59well i think dawkins andrews and others are are wrong well right but y
1:00:04partly wrong rapid doctor yesterday she said well human beings have
1:00:08more properties interesting animals
1:00:11lots of different property some of which are moralistic
1:00:14what i've read they certainly do apple dropped but that's not the question
1:00:18the question is flight want they have moral properties f
1:00:22there were no shop
1:00:24she says well human beings are very complex organisms they have
1:00:28a self consciousness rationality
1:00:31fine why it is that investment with moral about whites that make him
1:00:35morally fat people
1:00:37take for example of the copper wire akattak forty
1:00:40the copper point has all sorts of different properties in the copper wire
1:00:45intrinsically and objectively the copper coins has not worked out
1:00:50than the copper wire taps
1:00:51it's a social convention of human beings
1:00:54that we use the coins
1:00:56currency
1:00:57but intrinsically it's no more valuable between you seashells
1:01:00four point it's a subjective
1:01:03viewpoint of human beings in the question is why wilson
1:01:07morality like that on the
1:01:10why i think the creatures that have self-consciousness rationality are uh...
1:01:15inherently valuable indeed we sought to get the evolutionary conditions were
1:01:19different
1:01:20creatures like last night while quite different sorts of rationality are
1:01:24wrapping up rationality of of morality
1:01:28moreover what about human beings of light self-consciousness or
1:01:31uh... rationality what about p does end up in a coma horror unconscious or
1:01:37mentally retarded
1:01:38uh... personal moral basis for their intrinsic human word
1:01:42on this proposal the doctor
1:01:43entity offers
1:01:45so given especially determinism
1:01:48andy physical ism obviously view i can't see any reason to think that this
1:01:53particular species
1:01:54has to sort of objectivity she imagines
1:01:58osteopath
1:01:59secondly without god why i think that there can be objective moral duties
1:02:04she says well it's wrong to do certain things because the cost of suffering
1:02:08but strong because green
1:02:11two members of the human
1:02:12species of course we think that's wrong
1:02:15but if there were intelligent uh... guinea pigs or or answer other species
1:02:20date within their morality subjective i don't see any reason to think
1:02:24because suffering
1:02:26to members of human species is something that is
1:02:30objectively wrong aunty yes
1:02:34hi i just don't see basis for this on naturalistic worldview
1:02:38indian
1:02:39as michael response i think it's very interesting article is great wrong on
1:02:43entrada
1:02:44we can easily imagine race of extraterrestrial beings who are rational
1:02:48persons with self-consciousness
1:02:50for whom great would not be
1:02:51morally wrong he says all holding the morality of grade as a human constant we
1:02:56cannot thereby assume there will be a constant for other organisms including
1:03:00extraterrestrial intelligent organist
1:03:03certainly locals that'll work
1:03:06we see tax which looked very much like report for on a regular basis
1:03:10and the sisterhood biological reasons for why this person
1:03:14animal kingdom
1:03:15so again it just seems to be dot granted is guilty of an unjustified biased
1:03:20toward iran species
1:03:21finally without god there is no moral accountability she says
1:03:26credit is looking for eighty self-interested recently moral
1:03:30it's not good will reach tool
1:03:33on the contrary
1:03:34on
1:03:35the theory of ethics and if indeed we do have
1:03:38moral reasons will be
1:03:40dot use the ultimate hoodies pants website therefore right
1:03:45and therefore we have a
1:03:46moral obligation to open it up
1:03:48but the advantage that i'm offering is that on
1:03:51the b_s_t_ face ethics
1:03:53moral choices are significant
1:03:55they make a difference they have
1:03:58a consequence to the they've made simple to the removable resolve the issue
1:04:04ultimately mankind and all of us are doomed to perish in the heat depth of
1:04:08the universe
1:04:09ultimately it does not matter whether we live morally or not it makes knowlton
1:04:13difference to the final outcome
1:04:15or our fate and therefore morality comes ultimately empty
1:04:19and funeral
1:04:20on eight years in other words
1:04:22prudential interests
1:04:24one contrary to moral interests often on t_b_s_
1:04:28but obviously prudential valued moral climate control inside
1:04:32and run together
1:04:33and it didn't work and collect
1:04:36that could be moral and physical trouble
1:04:38prudential interestingly ultimately will be in your potential interest to up to a
1:04:42vaca
1:04:43in the long run
1:04:44so i think that the use of offers below
1:04:47uh... prudential douglas post-world value whereas on eight years of
1:04:51there simply is no
1:04:54ethical all too much significance and find out the exact world
1:05:07uh... i'm puzzled by v contention dr craig add-on
1:05:13moral differences are significant make a difference in my not
1:05:17on i'd just dancing with the argument that clinton is i think it makes
1:05:21enormous debt
1:05:23sticks in your best efforts to cities on plan
1:05:26what used to do about will work
1:05:29i think it makes an extraordinary differences sentient creatures all over
1:05:33the planet
1:05:35uh...
1:05:35worker winter we continue or
1:05:39uh... i don't understand what more objective basis there could be
1:05:44for the prohibition against causing needless suffering
1:05:48and the fact that they're creatures on this planet they're capable of something
1:05:52i don't see any more fundamental explanation possible
1:05:58but i think it's a little bit about uh... more about the accountability
1:06:01business i still get the feeling doctor traces its invention his view
1:06:06that the potential in the world recent scans outside when he started out
1:06:10something always outside
1:06:12uh... why that's not my experiences things my experience of things is that
1:06:16sometimes it's very hard
1:06:18defeated the for to do what's right
1:06:21and that choice is that people who would decide to do that all of them more
1:06:25admirable
1:06:26uh... because it's difficult
1:06:28uh... ads for the unjustified bias against uh... bias for species
1:06:34classrooms the cc
1:06:35i made a point of saying that we have obligations toward other species it's
1:06:40not it's not what your phylogeny is it's not real what evolutionary uh... uh...
1:06:45granted him off
1:06:47it's your characteristics aren't the kind of creatures it's capable of
1:06:50feeling pain
1:06:52if you're the kind of preaches if you don't pay on and drama
1:06:55and if you have the rational
1:06:56passively to recognize that you're doing the creature that feels pity and rob
1:07:02you will see rationally that you off not to contact me to pain at that hero
1:07:09uh... now one thing that i think doctor craig continue seeking using talk so
1:07:13that we should
1:07:14is the question of winter moral sensibility com program we get this
1:07:18capacity
1:07:19recognize
1:07:20moral facts
1:07:22that's a very interesting question i think it's an evolutionary psychologists
1:07:25have some interesting things to say
1:07:27uh... have some uh... wrong ideas about things
1:07:31there's a very few question
1:07:32it's not the same question is what makes a great wrong
1:07:36it's i think michael uh... i think darwin speculation is is hyperbolic
1:07:40imagines that's placed behind but are we might be safer like these
1:07:45we don't have much of the way the breakaway east most of our brains
1:07:48devoted to finding honey and finding actor communicate that to the rest of
1:07:52our private
1:07:54but if if we were human beings in the mid to high price situation that would
1:07:58be a social reform that might dictate different kinds of uh...
1:08:01responsibilities at different conceptions of
1:08:03property rights and so forth
1:08:05that they would still be some fundamental facts
1:08:07were sentient creatures and have the capacity to recognize that there are
1:08:11other sentient creatures on the planet that generates the application to not
1:08:16possible suffering
1:08:18on working on this this is about providing a basis for morality
1:08:22we are gonna play burden of proof volatile here
1:08:25explain is that i can not provide an interactive basis for rally
1:08:29injected basis for our would be a fact about the world that's true
1:08:33independently what needs to leave about the world
1:08:37and that is true universally across the planet
1:08:41there are plenty of such objective facts
1:08:43the most important work for granted around is the facts that since the
1:08:47factor creatures that be ok
1:08:50another fact it's very important is that they're creatures
1:08:53who have goals who can seconds for themselves
1:08:56wanting a preachers who can say instance cells
1:08:59then uh... creatures who have right to pursue them since
1:09:03that's what makes the case that you should not interfere with people's
1:09:06liberty on how much of a very good reason
1:09:09and then finally the capacity uh... irrational to pass the have
1:09:14understand these facts about it
1:09:16now what doctor craig has to show is that if god didn't exist
1:09:21not stacks would make any difference
1:09:24it's one thing to say here's another possible basis you have a perfectly good
1:09:29b
1:09:30in the universe dishes connects
1:09:32that's what's also faces
1:09:34shut down my face is is inadequate
1:09:36i think so
1:09:38always act is that the basis that i'm talking about
1:09:41is that this is the surtax involved in some actual process
1:09:46why does that make them not facts i don't understand it
1:09:49he says they could involve differently but it turned out differently it's true
1:09:53we might not have been sent to you
1:09:56that would it would not change the moral back between
1:09:59predicts that g creatures we ought to be not causing
1:10:02it wouldn't change that daschle back
1:10:04it would change uh... the actual facts about how we are house
1:10:10on so i'm not a species i think that any creature that any creature needed by its
1:10:14very robots develops sentence
1:10:17uh... then we would have an obligation to cause them
1:10:20any rational creature on the planet is preacher we have certain kinds of or or
1:10:25sorry the universe
1:10:27is a creature
1:10:28to whom we have on
1:10:30uh... responsibilities
1:10:39okay let me say something too about the about these different foster
1:10:44where but plainview approach to show that the mir existence uh... certain
1:10:49accounts abun pass opt out
1:10:54to to command next mere existence of such a case nine
1:10:58and i think doctor craig and i reads it what you need to add
1:11:02is that the is cool that
1:11:05accidents active more back that's it
1:11:08the other facts about the
1:11:11now you have two choices here
1:11:13on and doctor craig is right to distinguish not logical question
1:11:16semantic question implications for each other
1:11:19fifty choices leaders sat
1:11:22unwanted i'm going to characterize it being a quick to point to that day
1:11:25and i'm going to set
1:11:28the nature of that he is
1:11:30that's what might
1:11:32now that's that's the first week of fright interpretation that's as it
1:11:36doesn't matter what the jacket back so it doesn't matter what that the lights
1:11:40it doesn't matter acting man's
1:11:42whatever the nature of that being if that's good
1:11:45another way of saying it is
1:11:47here's the when you look at the choice that means nate went to look at uh...
1:11:52mans that being
1:11:53dishes
1:11:54and on the basis of the characteristics of those names of those choices
1:11:58i will tell you whether it's a good day
1:12:00and some of the following possibility
1:12:03there is a universe that is created by a very powerful very intelligently
1:12:08and is very powerful intelligent being decides to populate the universe
1:12:13with on sentient creatures
1:12:15and his biscayne on things that would be terribly music but the sentient
1:12:20creatures
1:12:21difficult situations
1:12:24rattling around like flies like lol cables life not wait to see everything
1:12:28around
1:12:29discuss all this is a setback breweries very very please
1:12:34i think that we would all agree it back
1:12:36factory here
1:12:40p only thing different between that deer doctor craigs
1:12:45is the exact that price and stir constants a moral property
1:12:49both of us have to say that there are fundamental moral facts
1:12:54i think the moral facts for the facts that we make conditions that generate
1:12:58obligations and applications
1:13:01and that those very same acts artifacts that enable us to say with substance
1:13:07and if your religious with time
1:13:09and respect pecans
1:13:14we have one last round of
1:13:16five minutes each
1:13:29in my closing statement let me try to draw together some of the threads of the
1:13:33debate and see if we can come to some conclusions
1:13:36first dozens of the floor negate any recently thinking that moral values
1:13:40cannot be grounded dot
1:13:42well i think not
1:13:43dr anthony admits that divine command fury does give an objective basis for
1:13:49balance
1:13:50for additional art
1:13:51was however that they wouldn't be moral in character
1:13:55but detective
1:13:56who got his job is
1:13:58the greatest conceivable b
1:14:01dot isn't being witches were in the worship
1:14:04and therefore god must be
1:14:07morally perfect and therefore morally
1:14:11immediate
1:14:12were immediate worship it is not the greatest conceivable begin cannot be
1:14:16gone
1:14:17and therefore this beats the arbitrariness objection that she has
1:14:21twenty seven
1:14:22whatever the nature of the desi explode
1:14:25the concept of god
1:14:26i think details
1:14:28that god is morally perfect that it is a being worthy of worship so this gives us
1:14:32a ground for moral values that is both objective and of moral
1:14:37by contrast i simply can't see why i activist world view we should think
1:14:43this primate
1:14:45creature that has evolved down here on the planet earth's lost somewhere in the
1:14:49universe
1:14:50is the source of locus of objective moral values rather than a decade
1:14:55delusions of moral randhir
1:14:57first without god why i think the human beings have objective moral value
1:15:02on doctor and to the activity say here is it simply
1:15:06want to cause
1:15:08pain and suffering too
1:15:09a rational sense you'd creature
1:15:12uh... and that's for stopping point while agree yes it is wrong but while
1:15:17actually understands why would think it would be wrong if he is a mystery
1:15:22he would be are for succeed bills properties best and where
1:15:28goodness
1:15:29uh... moral significance there is an increase of the day
1:15:32army views
1:15:34uh... properties of moral value our moral rightness woodsy beat up on this
1:15:38particular creature
1:15:40uh... or one uh...
1:15:41properties of rationality and self-consciousness
1:15:45she says well there's a difference between grasping moral values and the
1:15:49existence of moral values i certainly think that's true even if it
1:15:52the evolutionary account
1:15:54is true of how we come to press for a balanced because they're grounded in god
1:15:58i think that gives us objectivity
1:16:01but what i can see a swipe on his cheek you moral values would be anything more
1:16:06than just he's subjective delusions which of the standoff
1:16:10of the socio pilot trickle
1:16:12evolutionary process we can certainly imagine different moral values have been
1:16:16produced by that same process
1:16:18and it's hard to support one set would be
1:16:20objectively true rather than the other
1:16:23what about the second point which i think i'll go out there are no objective
1:16:26moral duties i think this is a special evening pointedly is because
1:16:31the notion of obligation or prohibition
1:16:34requires
1:16:35someone to be issued those imperatives
1:16:38the notion of being applied for forbidden to do something
1:16:42has fights three nature of the notion of moral characters which are given to us
1:16:47but on a use of the useful source of moral obligation or imperative and she
1:16:52says well there's simply nothing more fundamental
1:16:57band the pain
1:16:58ought not to be
1:16:59cause flow wide pain
1:17:01is caused by other animal species all the time and in the animal world wide
1:17:07human the eggs
1:17:09chasen's will creatures that have
1:17:11the ability to set hands
1:17:13have the right to pursue those sections where did that come from
1:17:17word that right come from
1:17:19and why is it wrong to prohibit them from uh... going after those hands on
1:17:24eight years of you don't have any source for moral to your obligation army is
1:17:29because there is a moral whatever finally without doubt there is no moral
1:17:33accountability i think we agree on this point
1:17:36that on atheism
1:17:37no one holds you morally accountable for what you do by charges that that makes
1:17:42morality empty invention ultimately
1:17:46it makes no difference she says but of course it makes a difference to send
1:17:49your like owner political warm and look at the question of war
1:17:53those are nothing but short term transitory
1:17:57changes alternately different science tells us that ultimately
1:18:01s universities to expand
1:18:03people all parish
1:18:05in the universe humanity
1:18:08matter itself
1:18:10ke all will be extinguished
1:18:12yep
1:18:13uh... thermodynamic equilibrium is all cute when van
1:18:17naturalistic worldview
1:18:19so that alternately really makes no difference how do you live moral grounds
1:18:23world duties become like shuffle a deck chairs on the titanic your hand is the
1:18:28same no matter what you do by contrast
1:18:32uh... yes i think it's morally braces because it gives us the sound foundation
1:18:37for morality which has consequences and therefore it is not
1:18:41obtain people gesture in an empty needs users
1:18:48let's make a distinction between two forms of remorse sins
1:18:51you know carpenter imperfect fiction
1:18:54department contrition you're sorry because you are did something old and
1:18:59god
1:19:00your intermittent reaching your only sorry that you're free hunched
1:19:04on it's ok and perfect contrition
1:19:07apke uart out but perfect contrition
1:19:10i was taught was much better
1:19:13uh... because it bespeaks the best possible notice repentance not fear
1:19:17punishment
1:19:18patriots
1:19:20society what's right
1:19:22now as a young catholic grow i always felt that my own contrition fell short
1:19:26regard tried to focus on hearing people on my sins
1:19:30i found myself but he said about what might possibly here
1:19:34weekdays explains
1:19:36tease the cap
1:19:39when you when i was in college
1:19:42i felt like a plan
1:19:44and i was struck by reversing site
1:19:47the perfect interaction
1:19:48benigni eager to might finally be cheap by became eight yes
1:19:53if i didn't believe in god and he return managed heartbeat any
1:19:59if fifty five
1:20:00non-believer cup after having done something rocket only costly was wrong
1:20:06much involving except my reasoning is that part
1:20:09may is always the only way to achieve perfect contrition only psychologically
1:20:14possible way
1:20:15for alittle selfish human beings to put aside concerns for ourself
1:20:20if you bring your state
1:20:22and wouldn't adopt one
1:20:23what was going
1:20:25you more pleased with preachers who saw what was good for its own say
1:20:29and rico's and personal itself only or paper
1:20:36why i say did not per contraction
1:20:40disobedience clearly displeases got that one if the mere fact
1:20:44disobedience ecstasy possible god was not one of those penny tyrants like
1:20:49incurring school teachers our principals who issue artery financing provisions
1:20:53just for the exercise just delighted any other person get precious metals
1:20:57no included dot whilst what is right
1:21:00on the west breitbart who works for
1:21:04disobedience defense because this is the intelsat
1:21:07it's the right instead
1:21:11do it
1:21:12it's the goodness
1:21:13not dot
1:21:16hi is doing what's pleasing to the gods
1:21:20doing good and being
1:21:23strike but must please involving his son and husband because it's great because
1:21:27you have received what using because you can't separate cell
1:21:31not the prices it right
1:21:33eight years if they commit themselves to justice two pieces of the suffering
1:21:37calling your cell right
1:21:40eighties have the opportunity practiced perfect
1:21:46now all that's democratic close by conceding a couple of significant things
1:21:50doctor kary
1:21:52there are things that you lose when you get out belief in god
1:21:57morality is not one of them
1:21:59i don't understand what data bases there could be for the duty not to cause pain
1:22:05and at the art teachers exile
1:22:08and that alerts
1:22:10nonetheless
1:22:12you have a route
1:22:13but here are some things you do have to get out there not insignificant
1:22:17you lose a guarantee of redemption
1:22:20supposedly something morally terrible something for which you cannot make
1:22:23amends
1:22:24something perhaps which no human being expected forgive
1:22:28i'd imagine that the promise made by many religions that god will forgive you
1:22:32appear to be sorry
1:22:36that that might bring enormously
1:22:38and comfort
1:22:39you can't have it
1:22:42as a consequence as an atheist
1:22:44you must live your life
1:22:45and make your choices with the knowledge it every choice you make contributes in
1:22:50one way or another
1:22:52only down you're white
1:22:55dr craig things that he isn't true human choices would be insignificant
1:23:00i think just the reverse i think they become surpassing
1:23:05the second thing is this relinquished his confidence that it will all work out
1:23:11moral causes
1:23:12frequently seemed to be
1:23:14lost costs
1:23:15and it takes enormous courage and commitment to continue to struggle
1:23:18without anywhere actual hopkins wednesday efforts will be bored
1:23:23there's a higher more praiseworthy state of mind to be able to continue to act
1:23:27that promise of success
1:23:29with only the comfort that one is doing what we can to make things better
1:23:34yet citation tiki bay
1:23:36you can't consequently all marked
1:23:40is i think a profound expression hotbeds in the moral capacities possibilities
1:23:45pupils
1:23:47the fact is that tragedy
1:23:50human lives
1:23:51can be
1:23:53civilizations can be destroyed
1:23:56not bank guaranteed
1:23:57these things warm up for
1:23:59not are lending
1:24:02with it
1:24:03efforts
1:24:04all we have is this world
1:24:08this life
1:24:09ourselves anytime ants optimize me backbeat
1:24:23for more information about the very top scoring including additional recordings
1:24:26and calendar upcoming events
1:24:28please visit our website at w_w_w_ dot their task dot org

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