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Obsessed: Unraveling Jodi Arias | True crime documentary — Transcript

by Arizona’s Family (3TV / CBS 5) · 9,101 words · 1,391 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:02It is Sunday, June 22nd. [music]
0:06I just checked my work phone and I had
0:09an email that came in from the prison.
0:13[music]
0:14It says, "You have received a new
0:17message. The prisoner is Jodie A. Aras."
0:24I'm nervous. You do this whole
0:25documentary and all I want to know is
0:28more about Jod and
0:29>> Jod's locked in.
0:30>> Don't roll the tape yet.
0:31>> I didn't think she was going to respond.
0:34>> Here we go. All right.
0:37[music]
0:50>> [music]
1:16[music]
1:19>> We went to the same church in Riverside
1:21[music] and I met him there. Travis was
1:24extremely outgoing [music] and he would
1:28welcome everybody at church. He would
1:29talk to everybody. Um he was hilarious.
1:32I started dating his friend Chris and
1:35because Travis talked me into [music] it
1:37and we ended up getting married and
1:39Chris and Travis worked together and we
1:41just became close through that.
1:42>> We both worked for a company called
1:44Legal Shield and independent [music]
1:46contractors. So, we pretty much were our
1:48own bosses.
1:51The first time I met him was he came to
1:53Utah and did a presentation [music] and
1:56he was just funny. Most of the time it
1:58was, "Hi, I'm Travis." Bam. And he would
2:00show you his muscles. [music]
2:02That was his favorite.
2:04I don't think there was anybody that met
2:06Travis that didn't want to be his
2:08friend.
2:12When does Jodie come into the picture?
2:14[snorts]
2:15She was at a convention that we were at
2:18in 2006.
2:20>> So he called me and he says, "You got to
2:21I just met this chick. She's amazing.
2:24She's gorgeous. You got to meet her. I
2:26can't wait for you guys to meet." What
2:27was your initial perception? She's
2:30beautiful. She was very kind, very
2:32softspoken. She was very into Travis.
2:34Travis was very into her. So yeah, she
2:36[music] seemed great.
2:40Travis was looking [music] for someone
2:42of the similar faith. He brought her
2:44over and introduced her to me and I was
2:46just excited cuz she was a pretty blonde
2:48[music] that you know she was all smiles
2:50and he was all smiles and I was excited
2:52for him. [music]
2:53>> So you liked Jodie off the back?
2:55>> Mhm. Travis thought he was going to
2:57marry pretty much every girl he dated.
2:58[laughter]
3:00>> But she was not Mormon. [music]
3:01>> She was not.
3:02>> So did he have pause about that?
3:05>> He did, but he um they [music] had
3:07talked about his beliefs and she was
3:10like totally like, "Oh, I love that. I
3:13could get behind that. Oh, I believe in
3:14that, too. [music] Things were going
3:16well and maybe around two or 3 months,
3:18Chris and I start noticing like some
3:20weird behaviors with her.
3:24She's like [music] obsessed with the
3:26idea like they are getting married.
3:28Travis needs to commit to me. He needs
3:30to ask me to move to Arizona. It was
3:32about 6 months later that I got to know
3:34her a little bit better and she walked
3:35up and she gave me a hug and I just got
3:39the sickest feeling. Second time I've
3:41ever met her. Right after that, I turned
3:43around, went outside, and talked to one
3:45of my friends, and she looked at me and
3:47she said, "She gives me [music] the
3:49creeps." I knew something was off, but I
3:53didn't know what. Like, it just I mean,
3:54even talking about it now gives me makes
3:57me sick to my stomach. At this time, Jod
3:59was living in California, and Travis had
4:01moved to Mesa, Arizona a couple years
4:03prior [music] for his job. But Jod and
4:05Travis were on and off again all the
4:07time, constantly breaking up and getting
4:10[music] back together. So, who was
4:12Jodie? Where did this all start? We
4:15talked to our high school classmate who
4:16asked we change his name.
4:19>> Hello.
4:20>> Hi. How are you?
4:23>> I went to high school with Jodie. We
4:26didn't grow up in the same town, but
4:28everybody in our community kind of goes
4:29to one high school. And so, I had all my
4:32core classes with her. She was always
4:35really nice and courteous, pretty smart.
4:37I think a little kind of on the titsy
4:39side, you could say. She wasn't like the
4:42popular girl by any means, but I think,
4:45you know, people she interacted with
4:47tend to like her.
4:49>> Do you think all of you that went to
4:51high school with her actually knew the
4:52real Jodie?
4:53>> I don't think we did. No, I don't think
4:55anybody I think some people got glimpses
4:57of it. She was dating this guy. For
5:00whatever reason, they broke up and
5:03[music] this guy started seeing a new
5:04girl and I think they were at the new
5:07girl's house and they were hanging out
5:08and they just happened to look up out
5:10the [music] window and Jod was out there
5:12on the street kind of looking in the
5:14window at them.
5:15>> Anytime Travis started dating somebody
5:17else, Jod would become their friend.
5:19[music] She would add them on MySpace.
5:21She would see them at meetings if they
5:23were in Legal Shield and that she would
5:25become their BFF. You know, it was it
5:27was really weird. She knew he was dating
5:30other people. [music] He started dating
5:32Lisa and he really liked Lisa and he
5:34would do all these really cute things
5:36for her and it got very [music] serious.
5:37And there were times when he and Lisa
5:39were sitting on the couch watching a
5:41movie and [music] she looks up and Jod's
5:43in the kitchen. There was another time
5:45where she was at the back window. When
5:47he was over at Lisa's house, his tires
5:49got slashed. It wasn't [music] just
5:51bizarre actions. What people didn't know
5:53at the time was how and what Jod was
5:56writing. IM and emails between the two
5:59depict the secret they were keeping from
6:00[music] family and friends. They were
6:02having a sexual relationship that didn't
6:05align with Travis's religious beliefs.
6:07But most intriguing, Jod's personal
6:09journal that becomes a key part of this
6:12case.
6:14We [music] both want to get married and
6:16I don't think either of us is anywhere
6:18near that if we continue to act
6:19immorally.
6:23>> [music]
6:24>> We have many fights in Q right now.
6:26>> You just told me I'm cute last time. I
6:28was persistent [music] about it. Take it
6:30as a freaking compliment that I'm way
6:32excited to see you.
6:34>> I have been looking forward to it, but I
6:36don't want it to be a source of stress.
6:38>> You'll be a lot less stressed about it
6:39once you just get in your car and get
6:42over [music] here and let me distress
6:44you.
6:47>> I'm Aaron Nelson and I'm a forensic
6:49psychologist. So you were actually asked
6:51to be part of this case. What happened?
6:53[music]
6:54>> Yes, I was contacted during the rebuttal
6:57phase of the matter and I had a
6:59scheduling conflict um but was able to
7:01refer the case to a colleague. The Aras
7:04case had like every extreme sort of
7:07scenario all in one matter. We
7:10interviewed Dr. Nelson because this
7:12project and documentary is all about
7:14studying the mind of Jodie Aras, her
7:16psychology from then until now. I'm not
7:20pressuring your trip. I know that'll
7:22happen, but I can't stand the wait.
7:24>> Soon. Really soon. Realistically, the
7:27first of the month.
7:28>> Isn't that when you go to Cancun?
7:30>> The 10th.
7:31>> If you can't watch me saying no worries.
7:33I just wanted you to be proud of me.
7:35>> Record it. I'll be proud of you.
7:37>> Another reason for you to say to
7:39yourself, "Look at her." In front of
7:41hundreds of [music] people.
7:42>> I'll show how proud I am by licking your
7:45>> There's no question that their
7:47relationship was volatile. I've heard it
7:49described as toxic. I certainly agree.
7:51People call it passionate and intense.
7:54All of those adjectives could describe
7:56their relationship.
7:57>> It would make a steamy romance novel
7:59sound like a G-rated Disney movie.
8:02>> I mean, he liked her a lot. And I think
8:04in the beginning, he did think of her as
8:06someone he could marry. [music] But the
8:08more he got to know her, and the more
8:11she pushed sexually, I think the less he
8:14saw her as his forever wife. I've
8:17somehow managed to become his whipping
8:19girl, and we're both addicted to it.
8:22It's the same pattern as always. He gets
8:24pissed, goes off on me, feels bad, we
8:27make up. Yes, Travis, you're [music]
8:30right, Travis. Whatever you say, Travis,
8:33we're crazy being addicted to this
8:34cycle.
8:39She decides she's moving to Arizona. And
8:41Travis is like, "Why are you moving to
8:43Arizona? We broke up." Did they ever get
8:45back together once she moved to Arizona?
8:47>> They kept hooking up, but they never
8:48were back in a relationship. She moved
8:50within like a mile or mile and a half,
8:52like very close to his house. Like super
8:55weird. She snuck into through his doggy
8:57door and would climb into his bed with
8:59no clothes on when they were on the
9:02outs. [music] I told him, I said,
9:03"Travis, I'm afraid we're going to find
9:05you chopped up in her freezer. Like, she
9:06scares me." And he starts laughing. He's
9:08like, "There's no way, Skye. You don't
9:10know her." That's what he said to me.
9:12"You don't know her like I do." And I
9:14was thinking, you don't know her like I
9:15do.
9:18She moved to Arizona in June and then
9:21moved back to Hu Rica in April. And
9:24Travis becomes immediately becomes a
9:27different person. [music] We got like
9:28our old Travis back. Like he's
9:30energetic. He's happy. He's funny. But
9:33that didn't last because Travis was
9:35never able to fully get rid of Jod.
9:37[music]
9:38The two kept coming back for more,
9:39knowing what would entice the other,
9:41either sex or guilt.
9:44>> Every time that Travis tried to cut Jod
9:46off completely, she would threaten to
9:48kill herself. And she's like, "You're
9:50all I have. You can't cut me off. I have
9:52no one else." And he would [music] feel
9:53terrible.
9:54>> Well, I've decided to go next week to
9:56Utah. I'm pretty stoked about it. Plus,
9:58I'll have two whole days to spend with
10:00Ryan. I mentioned my road trip [music]
10:02to Travis. He didn't sound all that
10:04thrilled for me. As far as I know, he
10:07knows nothing of Ryan.
10:08>> It [music] appeared to me that the
10:10journal itself did not begin as with the
10:14intentional aspects. It seemed to become
10:17more intentional.
10:20>> Just getting ready for the road mostly.
10:23I'll be leaving [music] in a few hours.
10:26>> It certainly seemed to me that she was
10:28creating a narrative or a story.
10:39Travis was tentatively [music]
10:41planning to come and see me, but now
10:43it's been pushed back to the beginning
10:44of June. [music]
10:46I don't think it's a good idea that he
10:47comes, as much as I miss his company.
10:52Sad [music] news. I finally had the
10:54conversation with Travis and it did not
10:57go well. Well, [music] even sadder is we
10:59agreed to amicably part ways.
11:04Well, I've decided to go next week to
11:06Utah. [music] I'm pretty stoked about
11:08it. Plus, I'll have two whole days to
11:10spend with Ryan.
11:13[music] We knew she had gone to Utah
11:15because my little brother had set her up
11:17with Ryan Burns.
11:18>> Just getting ready for the road mostly.
11:19[music] I'll be leaving in a few hours.
11:21Travis also began to sweet talk/gilt me
11:24that I was making this road trip to Utah
11:26to visit [music] friends, etc. when I
11:28could instead come out to a to see him.
11:31He actually made me regret my itinerary
11:33for a few moments. [music]
11:34He is incredibly persuasive, but I stood
11:37my ground. Jod didn't just drive to
11:39Utah. She details several stops along
11:41the way in her journal. Reading, Santa
11:44Cruz, Pacific Grove, Pasadena. She even
11:47visited her ex-boyfriend named [music]
11:48Daryl. Jod was really late to Utah. An
11:52entire day late. So much so, her friends
11:54thought something may have happened to
11:55her. [music]
11:58Well, we're all at dinner on Wednesday
12:01and I'm like, "So, Ryan, where's [music]
12:02Jodie?" And he says, "Um, I don't know.
12:05She was supposed to be here like this
12:07afternoon." He called when we were
12:08sitting at the table. Straight to
12:10voicemail. I called her straight to
12:12voicemail. [music]
12:14At the briefing, she comes in, but she
12:17walked straight for [music] me and gave
12:18me a hug. She was so happy like all airy
12:22and
12:24you know like she was all excited to be
12:26here and we get this story of oh we were
12:29expecting her we were nervous [music]
12:31and like we didn't know where she was
12:32but she said that she got lost getting
12:35to Utah from here you just get on the 15
12:37like you don't get lost and that's when
12:38we were sitting there and I noticed the
12:39band-aids on [music] her fingers so I
12:41just asked her why do you have band-aids
12:43all over your fingers and she's like oh
12:45I'm a bartender I cut myself all the
12:47time and I just looked at her kind of
12:48weird
12:49We started talking about going
12:50four-wheeling the next day and I was
12:52like, "Oh, [music] great." Because of
12:54course she's going to go, "Yan, you
12:55know, she's trying to." And she's like,
12:57"Oh, I got to get back." And I was like,
13:00"Oh, how come?"
13:03>> Wow. Utah was amazing. I so wish I could
13:07have stayed longer, as in like a whole
13:08month.
13:10>> Travis was going to Cancun to meet some
13:11friends and take some work calls. Jody
13:14knew about it, but Travis was taking
13:16another girl with him. Mimi Sky and
13:18Chris were already in Cancun waiting for
13:21Travis's arrival.
13:23We kept calling him and he wouldn't
13:25answer
13:27and Chris called and left him voicemail
13:31dude like you missed the conference call
13:34and nothing back. And then I believe it
13:37was the next day we called again and his
13:39voicemail was full. We're like what is
13:41going on? Like something's wrong.
13:42>> I do remember hearing a knock at what
13:44sounded like a knock at the door. We
13:46called some friends to go over there and
13:48at the same time Mimi Michelle and
13:50Michelle's boyfriend had gone over there
13:52to see where's Travis, what's going on
13:54because he's not answering his phone. So
13:55they knock on the door, the door is
13:57locked. Then they called somebody, got
14:00the garage code, they went inside the
14:03house, they go upstairs, they knock on
14:05the roommate's door, and he's like, "No,
14:07Travis went to Mexico." And Mimi's like,
14:08"No, I'm supposed to go with him
14:11tomorrow." I came out of the shower and
14:13went into my room and at that point they
14:16were searching around the house.
14:17>> He finds a key to Travis's room.
14:19>> Zach came into the room.
14:20>> They opened the door
14:21>> and said, "We need to um get out of the
14:24house now."
14:24>> And that's when they found Travis.
14:26>> You know how we thought Travis was away.
14:29Turned out he was in his bathroom.
14:31>> Someone called and said, "Travis is
14:33dead."
14:35And we both were kind of like, "What?
14:42>> [music]
14:48>> And at the time of this incident, I was
14:49a lieutenant in the patrol at Mesa
14:52Police Department.
14:52>> Have you ever publicly talked about this
14:54case?
14:54>> No, I haven't. [music]
14:57So, I was out on patrol when the call
14:59came out. I would describe it as a
15:02typical East Valley neighborhood. These
15:03things typically don't happen here. I
15:05remember we were on the corner across
15:06from where the house was and we had it
15:08all secured. When I arrived, it was
15:10apparent that it was going to be either
15:12suspicious death or or a homicide.
15:14>> All we knew was that a person was found
15:17dead inside a home [music] in Mesa. We
15:19didn't know all the details
15:21>> at that point. Did you think it was
15:23going to be as big as it ended up
15:25becoming?
15:26>> Not at that time, but it was it was
15:27unique cuz when I arrived, there was a
15:29large crowd around the house.
15:30>> There's obvious signs of blood [music]
15:32on the carpet. As you go in further, we
15:34found other signs of a struggle or
15:36something in in the hallway leading into
15:38the master bathroom. And uh once you go
15:41inside the bathroom is when you can see
15:43the body [music] of of Travis in the
15:45shower.
15:45>> This young good-looking guy had been
15:48stabbed 27 times, that his [music]
15:50throat had been slashed, that he had
15:52been shot in the head. You just knew
15:55that there was something more to it.
15:57That started to perk everyone's ears up
15:59that this may be bigger than [music]
16:00what was first thought. The initial
16:02information right from the get-go was
16:04that they had a suspect in mind from all
16:06these friends that were there. They
16:08believed they knew who did this.
16:09>> And I looked at him and I said, "Jod."
16:10[music]
16:11He's like, "No, she's a little girl."
16:13I'm like, "Jo, it was Jodie." I knew it
16:16was her because then I knew she was late
16:19getting here. I didn't want it to be
16:21Jod. I thought it's probably Jod, but I
16:24[music] didn't want it to be Jod because
16:25of what that meant for Travis. that this
16:27person who he's defended for [music] two
16:29years, who he loved and took care of and
16:32helped, is the person who killed him.
16:34[music] Like, it just wasn't real at
16:36first. I was sitting there and it hit me
16:39that [music] he was he's dead.
16:42>> Our detectives were very meticulous of
16:43going through every inch of that house,
16:45looking for DNA evidence, looking for
16:46blood, looking for any type of evidence.
16:49And they eventually did find that
16:50[music] camera. That camera actually
16:52provided key details of when it actually
16:54occurred.
16:56>> That digital camera was found inside the
16:59washing machine and on it were pictures,
17:02naked pictures of Travis Alexander and
17:05Jodie Aras in a matter of minutes seen
17:08in [music] timestamps on the photos from
17:10June 4th. They go from being sexual and
17:12fun to pictures accidentally taken of
17:15Travis bloody in the shower. And there's
17:18a blurry picture that appears to be
17:20Jod's pant leg. Meanwhile, Travis's
17:22family and friends are learning new info
17:24in the investigation [music] every day
17:26and putting these pieces together for
17:28themselves. But Jod doesn't know that
17:31police have all this evidence. She's
17:33still journaling a lot. Then he told me
17:38it was about Travis. This is horrendous.
17:41[music]
17:42The most awful thing I've ever had to
17:44deal with. I am in total shock right
17:46now. It hasn't fully [music] hit me.
17:48This can't really be real. This just
17:50can't be happening.
17:52>> It appeared [music] as if she was giving
17:54written practice to back up how she
17:57would portray herself with others.
18:00>> So, I've been numb mostly, but last
18:02night [music] was extremely hard. I
18:04broke down. I hear him singing. I hear
18:07him laugh.
18:08>> This went well. I [music] told so and so
18:10how sad I was and how horrified and how
18:13could this happen. My guess [music]
18:15would be that sometimes she said it
18:17first and wrote it down and other times
18:18as she was writing [music] she had a
18:20thought that she then used in
18:22conversation.
18:23>> We're getting all this information like
18:25how she shows up in this rental car and
18:28how her license plate was upside down
18:30and she got pulled over and [music] so
18:32obviously she took her license plates
18:33off to go to Travis's house.
18:36>> Tonight I went to the police station to
18:37give elimination prints. I am so angry
18:40about all of this. I can't imagine what
18:42his family [music] is feeling.
18:44>> She bought a gas can. She borrowed two
18:46gas cans from Daryl that she planned
18:48ahead of time. Some people think that
18:50her changing her hair color right before
18:51had a lot to do with it because people
18:53were familiar with her on Travis's
18:54street. [music]
18:55Travis was at my bedside this morning. I
18:58could feel his presence.
18:59>> But she butchered Travis, got in her
19:02car, drove to Utah, and hooks up with
19:04Ryan Burns. Like, it was so bizarre. I'm
19:10for thou shalt [music] not kill, but is
19:12it wrong to want the perpetrator to get
19:14the needle? Perhaps. Oh, Travis, to be
19:16as strong as you are, [music] Ja.
19:18>> I think that a journal was something
19:20that she likely used as a common [music]
19:23practice, and it very intentionally
19:26became the establishment of an alibi.
19:30I had a dream that two people were
19:32charged in the case of Travis Alexander.
19:34Anyway, keep praying, Ja.
19:40Hillary called me and she said, "They
19:43got her. They got her. They arrested
19:45her. They arrested her for killing my
19:46brother.
19:56[music]
19:58How many times was Travis stabbed?"
20:04More than I want to remember.
20:10And I'm not going to sit here and
20:14show [music] you pictures of him after
20:16the fact. I don't do that. That's not
20:18how I work.
20:22If [music] Travis were here today, he
20:23would tell you that if it wasn't me.
20:28We had [music] watched her manipulate so
20:30many people um over the two years and
20:33[music]
20:34people would believe her. Is she going
20:37to be able to talk her way out of this?
20:40It's your fault, Joey.
20:42These are your parents.
20:47>> This is this bathroom.
20:51>> That [music] is not my foot.
20:54She's really smart in some ways and very
20:55dumb in other ways, but she's not dumb
20:57enough to think, I'm going to throw this
20:58camera in there and nobody's going to be
21:00able to pull stuff off it.
21:04I think she deleted them. And then I
21:06think she was either going to take it or
21:07damage it or do something. But I think
21:09when she grabbed all that all the
21:11bedding and put it in the laundry in the
21:13washer, I don't think she knew the
21:14camera was in it.
21:15>> That right there is blood.
21:19It's a mixture of yours and his.
21:22And that's your palm bro.
21:25Have your last palm.
21:27>> I don't have any cats in my life.
21:30>> She appeared to have this delusional
21:31mentality about her that she was in
21:34denial of everything that happened.
21:37>> There's no doubt in my mind that you
21:39were the girl. There's no doubt in my
21:41mind that you did this. None.
21:45>> It's killing me. So I don't know why.
21:47>> Like there's no reason for it. There's
21:49no reason why. There's no reason I would
21:52ever want to hurt him. If I was going to
21:56ever try to kill somebody, I would
21:59[music]
21:59use gloves. I found plenty of them.
22:02>> When they arrested her, she [music] had
22:04a gun. She had a knife. She was leaving.
22:07She was getting out of town. She was
22:09packed. Her car was packed. She was
22:11ready to go. So, if they hadn't arrested
22:13her then, she would have been who knows
22:16where. It's at this point Detective
22:18Flores leaves the room, leaving Jod
22:20alone. This is when things start to get
22:23just downright strange.
22:25>> I didn't hear you.
22:30I wonder how am I still here
22:35[snorts]
22:42all night
22:45[snorts]
22:46when Christ was born.
22:50[music]
22:51just based on those types of um
22:54observations
22:56I would be thinking [music] and a range
22:59of the personality disorder diagnosis.
23:02The cluster [music] of personality
23:05disorders that would start to emerge as
23:07relevant contains [music] antisocial
23:10personality disorder, borderline
23:12personality disorder, uh histrionic
23:15personality disorder, [music]
23:17and narcissistic personality disorder.
23:20And so you have like her smiling for the
23:22mug shot and like it was just such a
23:25slap in the face. She had zero remorse.
23:29Jod had certainly never seen a jail cell
23:31before. It was an opportunity to meet a
23:33whole new set of people, inmates. They
23:36knew nothing about her life before or
23:38really even the crime leading up. So she
23:41could start her narrative from scratch.
23:43And that's where she met Donovan, who
23:45becomes a key player in [music] this
23:46saga.
23:49We really clicked because one, I had
23:52never been in trouble a day in my life
23:54before. [music] So, I was very nervous
23:56and scared. She was coming in to with
23:59not knowing anybody [music]
24:01and we kind of just I would be sitting
24:04there watching TV and she f would come
24:05over and we would start talking. [music]
24:07Yeah. She was very nice. Oh my goodness.
24:09I mean, spending time with her was
24:11great.
24:11>> Did you hate Travis because of what you
24:13[music] had heard?
24:14>> Yeah. Telling me horrible stuff. Yeah,
24:16of course. I got to where I was like,
24:17how, you know, how dare her, you know,
24:19and [music] she was obsessed with him. I
24:22mean, it was she would have done
24:23anything to be for him to [music] stay
24:27and like her. We told her, "Do not do
24:30interviews."
24:32>> I guess that's really all I needed.
24:34Sorry, don't roll the tape yet.
24:37>> Does that help her?
24:42>> Thank [music] you. I appreciate it. If I
24:43didn't commit a murder, I didn't hurt
24:45Travis. I would never hurt Travis, would
24:47never harm him physically. Um I may have
24:50hurt him emotionally and [music] I'll
24:51always regret that. I was on the road
24:53that week. I don't know a lot about
24:56that, but I do I did hear that um that
25:00there was quite a struggle. I really
25:02don't remember the day at all. I just
25:04remember when I got the [music] phone
25:05call. I need to be honest, and it the
25:07evidence is very compelling, but
25:10none of it proves that [music] I
25:11committed a murder. She always she
25:14always had to make sure that she was put
25:16together and that she knew what she was
25:18going to say and it had to be um it's
25:22like she was wanted to be perfect on TV.
25:26>> It's so rare that you get somebody who's
25:29accused of murder who is so open and
25:31upfront about talking about it. And so
25:34that in itself created a lot of buzz and
25:37interest not just locally but across the
25:39country and around the world.
25:42She didn't have ever never had any
25:44remorse. She never cried. Um but at that
25:48time she was telling stories.
25:49>> I witnessed um Travis being [music]
25:51attacked by two other individuals.
25:55>> Who
25:56>> I don't know who they were. I couldn't
25:57[music] pick them out in a police
25:58lineup. She had talked about the fact
26:00that uh there were some intruders that
26:03went into the house and that this was a
26:06[music] you know this was a case of of
26:08somebody breaking into the house and
26:09just a violent crime that took place.
26:11>> But they didn't hurt her.
26:12>> But they [music] didn't hurt her. Yes.
26:14>> Two people took Travis's life. Two
26:16monsters.
26:16>> You did [music] not shoot Travis.
26:18>> No. I've never even shot a real gun.
26:20>> She threw pretty much everything out on
26:23the table uh hoping something would
26:25stick.
26:26It was like like my child that tells a
26:29lie that everyone knows they're lying
26:32and they keep going.
26:33>> A little bit like a Roomba. When she
26:35hits a bump, she just goes another
26:38direction.
26:38>> And that was about to happen again.
26:41Story number three. Of course.
26:44>> Did you kill Travis Alexander on June
26:474th, 2008?
26:49[music]
26:49>> Yes, I did.
26:50>> We hear the term media circus. This was
26:52a media circus on steroids. She told me
26:55that he wouldn't die. He was like a
26:57Terminator.
26:58>> That's the word she used.
26:59>> Mhm.
27:00>> Yeah. He just He wouldn't die.
27:01[clears throat] He was like the [music]
27:01Terminator. That was her exact words. I
27:04never have thought in a million years it
27:05was going to be her admitting that she
27:06killed it.
27:12Yeah.
27:18When was the last time you opened this?
27:22It had to be after the second trial. I
27:25was juror number six on the Jodi Arias
27:28trial. Kevin was juror number 13.
27:33>> Jodi Arias case. Juror number 13.
27:37>> Being a part of it was definitely an
27:39interesting portion of my life.
27:41>> You had no idea what you were going to
27:43be in for.
27:44>> No. No.
27:52The hype outside the courtroom continues
27:54to grow.
27:56>> Justice returns.
27:58>> I just felt like I needed to be here. Um
28:00I was actually on a death penalty case
28:02as a juror. [cheering and applause]
28:04>> I was a general assignment reporter
28:06>> live late breaking investigative during
28:09the trial [music] in 2013. It was quite
28:11a quite a trial, something I've I've
28:13never experienced before.
28:14>> I just feel bad for Travis's family. So,
28:17>> I had never heard the term trial groupy
28:19until this trial. These are people who
28:21would just show up at the courthouse,
28:23outside the courthouse, hoping to get
28:26one of the few seats in the gallery that
28:27were available each day. [music]
28:29>> I I still wanted to be here. I just
28:31cannot believe even going through
28:32security would have been enough for me
28:34this morning, but to actually be one of
28:36the people that picked, I I still can't
28:38believe it.
28:39>> All of a sudden, I'm, you know, this
28:41celebrity and I can't even walk through
28:43these people and it's not really
28:45celebrity. I mean, my friend was
28:47murdered.
28:48>> It was pretty bananas. It was kind of
28:49like the Super Bowl of of of court.
28:56>> This was a very violent attack. There
28:59was a stab to the heart area. His throat
29:03was slit from ear to ear.
29:05>> Jodi Aras killed Travis Alexander.
29:09There is no question about it.
29:14The milliondoll question is what would
29:16have forced her to do it. It was
29:19Travis's continual abuse.
29:22>> This is not a case of who done it. The
29:26person who done it, the person who
29:28committed this killing sits in court
29:31today. It's the defendant, Jody. and
29:34area.
29:35>> Juan Martinez has wasted no time in
29:38showing us
29:40autopsy photos, showing us crime scene
29:42photos, showing us nudity. It was really
29:45a hammer over the head is now you have
29:47to carry the weight of the entirety of
29:49this trial
29:51from the early moments on.
29:53>> I went immediately into thinking
29:57we are in deep trouble here.
30:03One Martinez would spend months laying
30:05out the state's case with many witnesses
30:07taking the stand, detailing Jod's
30:09egregious behaviors, her jealous motive,
30:12her salacious texts, and audio
30:14recordings with Travis and the gruesome
30:16crime itself. But as he worked to expose
30:19her downfalls, Juan Martinez became just
30:22as much a character in this as Jod,
30:24catapulting this trial even further into
30:27the national spotlight. Even the defense
30:29attorneys played up to the camera a
30:30little bit, but nothing nothing like
30:32Juan Martinez.
30:33>> You don't know where you met her the
30:34second time. That's what you're telling
30:36me, right?
30:37>> I know approximately.
30:39>> Approximately means you don't know,
30:41right?
30:42>> If that makes you happy.
30:44>> Nothing here is to make the prosecutor
30:46happy. You understand that? Why don't
30:48you want to answer my question?
30:49>> When we were in deliberations, I said I
30:52would never want to be on the stand
30:54[music] and have him question me.
31:01Then you had the defense where Kirk
31:03Nurmy brought in witnesses to paint the
31:05picture. Jod was abused by Travis
31:07Alexander. He even called Daryl Brewer
31:10to the stand. Jod's [music] ex-boyfriend
31:12who she visited and borrowed gas cans
31:14from for her road trip.
31:16>> Do you know this lady here in the blue
31:18shirt?
31:19>> Yes.
31:20>> How do you know her?
31:22Um, I know Jod um because we were in
31:26[music] love
31:27>> during that time period. Did Jod ever
31:29act jealous at all?
31:31>> Not that I saw.
31:32>> Okay. Did you ever notice her being
31:35violent or having a violent temper?
31:38>> Never.
31:38>> You start to get into this [music]
31:40was she abused
31:42defense.
31:44Did you believe that at all?
31:46>> Yes. Personally, [music]
31:48when it comes to the verbal abuse,
31:50there's text messaging that happened in
31:53email.
31:55So, the leap for inperson verbal abuse
31:58is [music] not a stretch for me.
32:02>> Would you tell me where the testimony
32:04you're about to give will be the truth,
32:05the whole truth, and nothing but the
32:06truth to help you die?
32:08>> Yes, I do. Please be seated.
32:10>> Did you kill Travis Alexander on June
32:134th, 2008?
32:16Yes, I did.
32:18>> Why?
32:20>> Um, the simple answer is that he
32:23attacked me and I defended myself.
32:26>> I thought she'd stick with the the two
32:28intruders. Um, but I think somebody had
32:31to have told her at some point, uh, you
32:33need to try again. Like, this isn't
32:34working.
32:35>> Well, after the gun got went off, I
32:37thought, crap, because now he's really
32:39going to be pissed. I didn't know that I
32:40shot him. I thought I [music] shot a
32:42hole in the wall or something. Do you
32:43remember
32:46stabbing Travis Alexander?
32:48>> I have no memory of stabbing him.
32:52>> So, it appears then that your memory
32:53becomes faulty immediately upon you
32:55shooting him.
32:58>> Yeah, things get very foggy from there.
33:01It's confusing. There is like a huge
33:03gap. Like I don't know if I blacked out
33:06or what. I was I didn't want anyone to
33:09know that that had happened or that I
33:11did it. Were you crying when you were
33:13stabbing him? [music]
33:17>> I don't remember.
33:18>> How about when you cut his throat? Were
33:20you crying then?
33:22>> I don't know.
33:23>> You're the one that did this, right?
33:26>> Yes.
33:31>> You do not stay and stab somebody 27
33:35times and cut their throat um to escape
33:39someone.
33:42This thing has blown up. Oh yeah. And
33:45she loved it. Oh, she loved it. Because
33:47[music] people were writing her from all
33:49over, even out of the country.
33:51>> What factors influenced your having a
33:54memory problem?
33:56>> Um, usually when men like you are
33:58screaming at me or grilling me or
33:59someone like Travis doing the same.
34:01[music]
34:01>> She loved playing the role, so it was
34:03kind of like a game.
34:04>> She was very flirtatious. She would
34:06smile and look at people in the [music]
34:07gallery and look at the attorneys and
34:09she played that up as best she could. I
34:11remember sitting in the courtroom one
34:13day and I texted my wife, uh, I think
34:16Jod looked at me and my wife, who has a
34:19good sense of humor, texted me back,
34:21good luck with that.
34:25She was on the stand for 18 days. That's
34:28a long time to be on the stand. I I
34:31don't think you you know you can do
34:32yourself any good for being on the stand
34:34for 18 days. [music]
34:37Fear,
34:39love, [music]
34:41sex,
34:43lies,
34:45and dirty little secrets played a
34:47prominent role in the relationship that
34:51Jodie Aras shared with [music] Travis
34:53Alexander. Somebody was not going to
34:56make it out alive. It's not even about
35:00whether or not you like Jodie Aras.
35:04Nine days out of 10, I don't like Jodi
35:07Arias.
35:08That was a joke as we [music] went into
35:10deliberations of I don't like Jodie. And
35:13that that kind of that was amazing that
35:16that he said that.
35:18>> He stabbed him first. He wasn't dying
35:20quick enough. And she was afraid he was
35:23going to live. As he stumbles away,
35:25tries to get away. She chases him down.
35:28Then she slits his throat and then for
35:30good measure shoots [music] him in the
35:31face. She may cry now.
35:34The jury instructions have told you that
35:37sympathy is not to be considered.
35:40>> Something that was very unique in this
35:42case was that your jury asked a lot of
35:45questions of the judge.
35:47>> Boy, did we ever.
35:49>> They asked so many questions, it made
35:51[music] you think, wait, do did they
35:53actually believe her story? Is there
35:55some additional sympathy going on here
35:58that maybe they're feeling like maybe
35:59[music] she was abused?
36:01>> I was wondering did they do they believe
36:03her lies? Do they believe that [music]
36:05he hit her? Do they believe he abused
36:06her? None of them would look at us. And
36:08so we were I remember being very nervous
36:10because when they walked in, not one
36:12person, not one of the jurors that I
36:14remember would like even looked at
36:17[music] us. So were you thinking
36:18>> I was thinking they feel bad like this
36:21could be
36:22>> Yeah, this could be really bad. Was
36:23there a point in time where you're
36:25[music] thinking, I don't think she did
36:27this.
36:45When we went into the deliberation room,
36:47we elected a jury for Portman. He said,
36:51"Let's just take a straw boat and see
36:54how everybody feels." I believe that we
36:57were about 73. Seven for guilty and
37:02three that were a little bit iffy. And
37:04they were concerned about abuse. And one
37:07of my comments to them [music] was, "She
37:09always had the opportunity to pick up
37:11the phone and report it, [music]
37:14and she never did that."
37:16The defense had multiple experts testify
37:18about several psychological aspects of
37:21Jod. One of them said Jod was a victim
37:23of domestic violence, but she came under
37:26fire after admitting she only
37:28interviewed Jod and no one else in her
37:30life.
37:30>> There was no indication of physical
37:33violence between the two of them. So,
37:35she just basically interviewed Jod and
37:38took her story. And what do we know
37:39about Jod? [music] She makes up stories.
37:42Another psychologist said Jod had acute
37:45stress which led to PTSD which then led
37:48to amnesia claiming she could not
37:51remember committing this crime at all.
37:53>> So what if she has PTSD? Like how is
37:55that relevant? This wasn't an issue of I
37:58was psychotic.
38:01We talked about the timing from the
38:04camera taking the pictures of him when
38:06he was in [music] the shower as to then
38:08when she actually slid his throat and
38:11filling up the gas cans in Salt [music]
38:13Lake. Did she have enough time to get a
38:17gun? Did he have a gun? Hey, here's
38:19another lie.
38:20>> The state called their own psychologists
38:22to try and discredit everything the
38:24defense had presented about Jod's
38:26mindset. So, you had these two wildly
38:28different [music] psychological takes
38:30that the jury was going to have to try
38:32and sort out.
38:33>> Dr. Damarte [music] diagnosed borderline
38:35personality disorder. Stalking or
38:37persistent pursuit type of behaviors
38:40were evident.
38:41>> One of the interesting things [music] we
38:42did as a group is we put everything on
38:44post-it notes and we littered the room
38:47and the table with every observation and
38:50piece of evidence that people saw along
38:52the way.
38:52>> How many Post-its do you think you put
38:54in the room?
38:54>> Probably over a hundred. There's too
38:56many versions, there's too many things,
38:58[music] there's too much evidence. We We
39:00went home to sleep on it and make sure
39:04that that's the decision we wanted to
39:07do.
39:10[music]
39:11>> The longer the jury is out, that's
39:13usually in the favor of the defendant
39:15where they're either deadlocked or they
39:18can't agree. It was really unnerving
39:22because we're like, "Is it good they're
39:24staying in there a long time? Is it
39:26bad?"
39:30[music]
39:30>> The next morning, everybody came in and
39:32said, "We're ready to go." And told the
39:34judge that we had a decision.
39:36>> State of Arizona versus Jodianne Aras.
39:39Verdict [music] count one. We the jury
39:41duly impanled and sworn in and the above
39:43entitled action upon our oath do find
39:45the defendant as to count one
39:47first-degree murder guilty.
39:53I believe I'm shaking. [music] I am just
39:55so glad that the jury got this verdict
39:57right.
39:58>> We could see it from the windows. It was
39:59just a sea of people and a sea of blue
40:02in support of Travis.
40:03>> Justice has been done and the next
40:05person won't go and do that same thing.
40:08I remember when we walked out, it just
40:10erupted like it was insane. [cheering]
40:15>> It was a little bit satisfactory to say,
40:16"Okay, we came here, we did our job, and
40:20there's a unanimous choice here."
40:22>> And then everything changed.
40:24>> Yeah.
40:24>> I thought the hardest part is behind us.
40:27Little did we know it [music] was not.
40:28>> They came back pretty quick with the
40:30guilty verdict for the murder
40:31conviction, but the whole death penalty,
40:34it's it's it's very different.
40:38I remember walking out my back door
40:40screaming,
40:42crying.
40:43>> To this day, I can hardly believe I was
40:45capable of such violence, but I know
40:47that I was.
40:48>> When you have a capital case and death
40:49penalties on the line, [music] there's
40:51almost this second mini trial to prove
40:53why they should or shouldn't be put to
40:55death. During this sentencing phase, the
40:58victim's family and the defendant can
40:59address the court in [music] impact
41:01statements. Travis's family did. So did
41:04Jodie. Our minds are permanently stained
41:08[music] with the images of our poor
41:09brother's throat slit from ear to ear. I
41:13never meant to cause him so much pain.
41:15>> Travis used to write out his day on a
41:17flash card.
41:20The last one he wrote said to call
41:22Steven.
41:26I never got that call. When Steven said
41:29he read on Travis's 3x5 card that it
41:32said call Steven and that he never got
41:34that call. I know that's because of me.
41:38>> I don't want to have to see my brother's
41:40murderer anymore.
41:42>> Steven said he doesn't want to look at
41:43his brother's murderer anymore. If I get
41:45life, he won't have to. [music]
41:50the the night before we started
41:52deliberating, [music]
41:53um, I was home alone and I was out on
41:58the patio
41:59and it [music] was it must have been 2
42:013:00 in the morning
42:05just saying prayers
42:07and [music] that was the feeling that I
42:10had is it needs to be the death penalty
42:13and is [music] that the right decision?
42:22That was a messy room that day. The
42:25tears came up and the arguments came
42:28out. But I think the other part was that
42:31the jurors felt that she was a young
42:34girl.
42:35And the other was I think maybe that she
42:38was abused [music] and you know that she
42:41had a reason. And there was no changing.
42:45There was absolutely [music] no
42:47changing.
42:49>> State of Arizona versus Jodianne Aras.
42:52Sentencing [music] verdict. We the jury
42:54duly impanled and sworn in and above
42:56entitled action upon our oaths
42:58unanimously fined having considered all
43:00of the facts and circumstances. No
43:02unanimous agreement [music] signed for a
43:04person
43:05ordered declared in mistrial as to the
43:07penalty phase.
43:08>> What were you personally feeling?
43:10Failure. Yeah, it was one that we've
43:14worked so hard and we've got to be able
43:17to do this and that's what she needed.
43:20She took his life violently. [music] She
43:23was horrible, lied about it and it was
43:26like that's what it has to be. Did you
43:29believe Jod should die?
43:32>> Yeah, and I still do. But it is
43:35disappointing when you, you know, work
43:37so hard for an outcome and it doesn't
43:40come to fruition.
43:41>> It was what it was and and [music] it's
43:44t it took me a long time to say it was
43:47what it was because I was very [music]
43:51adamant that it was the death penalty.
43:53The first round we ended up with a hung
43:55jury because in Arizona you're allowed
43:57to retry the penalty phase. So we go
44:00again and it's months of testimony. So
44:03his family has to go through this all
44:05over again. [music] And then that time
44:08it came back 11 to 1 for the death
44:11penalty, which meant the second round
44:14that she would if it wasn't unanimous
44:16that she would automatically get life in
44:18prison. She turned to us after she was
44:23sentenced
44:25and she looked at all of us and said,
44:27"He was alive when I slit his throat."
44:30makes me wonder why
44:34she chose to add that detail at that
44:38point. Why do you think it was?
44:42I think [music] it was to be hurtful and
44:46shocking. She knows exactly what she was
44:48doing. Like she's incredibly evil. It
44:51consumed my life. I mean, it completely
44:54consumed my life. A lot of people had to
44:56go through a lot of therapy after this
44:58trial because it was so much
45:01>> grew a stress beard is a lot of this was
45:05just kind of internalizing what was
45:07going on.
45:08>> Wine, a lot of wine. I and there were
45:12there were a lot of us that talked
45:15[music] about how much wine we drank
45:16during that trial. I mean, it was a part
45:18of history, you know. I mean, it was
45:20news all over. Everyone always wants to
45:23know the killer's motive with [music]
45:24Jod, and it might be kind of obvious
45:27until I heard this for the first [music]
45:29time.
45:29>> I can't ignore the big fight that they
45:31got in on the 26th, cuz it's everything
45:35happens within a couple days of that
45:37fight.
45:43[music]
45:45[singing] It is Sunday, June 22nd. I
45:48just checked my work phone and I had an
45:51email [music] that came in from the
45:52prison. It says, "You have received a
45:54new message.
45:57The prisoner is Jodie A. [music] Aras."
46:01I wanted to visit Jod in prison. That
46:03was the goal. I want to get a feel for
46:05her one- on-one, but her appeals team
46:07shut [music] down any and all
46:08conversation or involvement. So, last
46:10ditch effort, I decided to email her
46:12personally, thinking [music] she won't
46:14respond. Months later, I got this. Hi,
46:18Brianna. Thanks for reaching [music] out
46:20to me. I would love for you to do a
46:22story on my art and what I have done
46:24with my time [music] at Pville, but my
46:26lawyers are completely against my
46:28participation with you at this time. And
46:30I don't mean just you, [music] of
46:32course, but in general. They're taking a
46:34cautious approach to things as lawyers
46:36are known to do [music] and have advised
46:38me accordingly.
46:40Also, thank you for reading my Substack.
46:42I try to share exclusive content and I'm
46:45always trying to [music] think of what I
46:46can share with readers that they can't
46:48find out elsewhere. I'm sorry I'm unable
46:51to chat with you [music] about things.
46:53I'll save your phone number in case
46:54anything changes. Thanks again for
46:56thinking of me. Take care, Jodie. What
47:00Jod's referring to in her message to me,
47:02she runs a blog from prison called Just
47:05[music] Jodie. She's so detailed. I know
47:07so much about her life now. like she has
47:10a pet pigeon named April and she knows
47:12how AI and updated technology works. She
47:15also believes she still has knowledge
47:16and wisdom to share with the world.
47:20I identify as a straight woman if I'm
47:22putting a label on it. I had a few by
47:24curious moments in my youth. [music]
47:26To appropriate Katy Perry refrain, let's
47:29just say I kissed her when someone
47:30asked. Jodie, when are you going to
47:32[music] get a girlfriend?
47:34A lot of things have almost begun that
47:36don't get a perpetual state of not
47:38[music] yet.
47:39>> To me, a lot of it sounded so still so
47:43self-absorbed. I mean, and so she's
47:47almost trying to be professorial with
47:49the world.
47:50>> The juicy lie that I flirt [music] with
47:51prison guards. They're called officers.
47:53My friendliness with flirtation.
47:55>> I've had a hell of a time recently. My
47:57tablet wiped out. I'm sorry I left you
48:00hanging. It's been rough. It's [snorts]
48:02disturbing. I don't know how people see
48:06that as okay. Uh for someone who's
48:08destroyed so many lives [music]
48:10to be able to continue to influence
48:14others. She does not deserve the
48:17freedoms that she has. I mean, what
48:19freedom [music] does Travis have? And
48:21really, like, what prison has she put
48:23all of his family and friends in?
48:28Jodie [music] is very smart and she's
48:30very good at what she does.
48:32>> So you don't think she was delusional?
48:34>> No, absolutely not.
48:35>> You think she was what?
48:36>> She played a very good role. She was a
48:39good actress. [music] She fooled us all.
48:41>> Jod is a lot of things. There is so much
48:43that makes up who she is. But Dr. Aaron
48:46Nelson says there is one [music]
48:47psychological diagnosis that appears to
48:49rise above the rest and explains
48:52everything.
48:53>> Borderline personality [music] disorder.
48:55She unequivocally
48:58had a complete disregard [music] for the
49:00life of Travis Alexander, for the
49:03Alexander family. So that makes her a
49:07sociopath. Uh does she fit?
49:10>> I think in the beginning she totally
49:13knew every lie like she [music] knew she
49:15was lying. But with all liars over time
49:19as they tell themselves over and over
49:21and over again it becomes their reality.
49:23[music]
49:23I think she would embrace and immerse in
49:27whatever character or whatever version
49:29she was in [music] and she could do that
49:32um with the depth that you know a great
49:34actor takes [music] on the character
49:37that they're representing.
49:38>> I think Kirk Nurmmy said it the best
49:40that Jodie has a line of [music] tragedy
49:44behind her.
49:45>> In 2016, Kirk Nurmy was disbarred after
49:47writing a tell- all [music] book about
49:49representing Jod, violating the attorney
49:51client privilege. He is now a speaker,
49:54TV personality, and stand-up comedian.
49:57>> I mean, her attorney's not an attorney.
49:59The prosecutor's not an attorney. Uh,
50:02you know, like there's a lot of stuff
50:03that has happened. So, it it worries me.
50:06>> There were always rumors of legal
50:09[music] misconduct that they were kind
50:10of doing things that they shouldn't be
50:12doing. Uh, rumors of Juan Martinez
50:15having an affair [music] with a member
50:16of the media. In 2020, Juan Martinez was
50:19disbarred for prosecutorial misconduct,
50:22including allegations he leaked
50:24information to a blogger during the
50:25murder trial, lied to investigators
50:27about having a sexual relationship with
50:29that blogger, [music] and communicated
50:31with a dismissed juror. He was also
50:34fired from the Maropa County Attorney's
50:35Office after multiple sexual harassment
50:38allegations.
50:39>> That's so scary because it was one of
50:41the jurors. I think it's so sad because
50:43I [music] think that Juan's attitude
50:47um his approach to cases was
50:52>> he he just [music] grabbed him by by the
50:54teeth and just shook them.
50:59I still have days where I and I didn't
51:02think I'd get emotional, but where I
51:05miss him so much. Like if I could just
51:07call him and talk to him and things that
51:09are happening and like everybody that's
51:11his age has families and you know his
51:15children would be in grade school,
51:17junior high,
51:19and he didn't get to have any of that.
51:22Um,
51:26I miss my friend. Like, I've definitely
51:30made Travis over the years. Um,
51:34my two older boys have amazing memories
51:36with him, but only up until,
51:40you know, they were like
51:43five and four. And I think of how what a
51:47great impact he could have been on their
51:49lives. [music]
51:50>> From a psychological standpoint, what
51:52are you thinking the motive is?
51:54>> Abandonment, [music] betrayal, jealousy,
51:57all of it.
51:57>> All of it.
51:58>> When he invited that other gal to go to
52:01Cancun,
52:04that was it with her. That was the straw
52:06that broke the camel's back. If she
52:08couldn't have him, no one could. She
52:10wanted to make sure she had one last
52:12time with him and then no one else. She
52:14wanted to make sure she was the last.
52:18>> What I don't have a good answer to is,
52:20you know, why that day in June? What was
52:23the [music]
52:24catalyst right now? This day,
52:27>> I can't ignore the big fight that they
52:29got in on the 26th cuz everything after
52:32that, everything [music] goes into play.
52:35Like that's when she plans her trip to
52:36meet Ryan. That's when she contacts
52:38Daryl for gas cans. That's when she
52:40changes her hair. She rents the car.
52:43[music] She steals the gun. Everything
52:45happens within a couple days of that
52:48fight of where she's exposed. He says,
52:51"I know exactly who you are. You're the
52:52worst thing that's ever happened to me."
52:54She didn't want to incriminate herself
52:55by putting it in writing. And so that
52:58had to have something to do with it. But
53:00something about that fight, something
53:02about what she did and that he knew and
53:05that he was going to tell people who she
53:07really was, like who, oh my gosh, this
53:09is who Jod actually is. Um, that's when
53:12everything like [snorts] went into
53:15effect.
53:16>> What is she talking about?
53:18>> I have no idea.
53:19>> Does anybody know?
53:20>> No. She said she was going to tell him
53:22everything over the phone, but she
53:24wouldn't put anything in writing that
53:25would incriminate herself. [music]
53:26>> Do you know if she ever told Travis
53:28anything?
53:28>> I have no idea.
53:29>> Only she knows what happened in that
53:32exact moment was going on in [music] her
53:35heart and mind. And and frankly, she
53:37might have convinced herself of a
53:39million different versions of that.
53:40>> To me, I think she got the fame she
53:41[music] wanted. I'm being honest. I
53:43think she's in there and she's loving it
53:45because never, you know, everybody's
53:47going to know Jodi Aras.
53:48>> You'll never kind of truly know who who
53:51Jodi Aras is. She's done a very good job
53:54of trying to maintain her own ideal of
53:58who she is.
54:08>> [music]

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