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O.J. Simpson FULL Post Trial Interview — Transcript

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0:01My name is Ross Becker. The ground rules
0:04for this interview are that OJ Simpson
0:06has agreed to answer any and all of my
0:08questions. Neither he nor his lawyers
0:10have seen or been told those questions
0:13in advance. I've agreed not to ask Mr.
0:15Simpson questions concerning his
0:17children, his personal finances, about
0:20any privileged conversations between Mr.
0:23Simpson and his attorneys, or any
0:25questions about any post-trial legal
0:27matters. The only people in the room
0:29during this interview are the camera
0:31operators, OJ, and myself. Also, a copy
0:35of this interview will be kept in the
0:37custody of my attorney as a guarantee
0:39that it will be disseminated exactly as
0:42it was recorded in real time.
0:54OJ, before we start to unravel this
0:56bizarre odyssey that uh you have gone
0:58through, why are you doing this
1:00interview? Why did you agree to this
1:02interview under these circumstances?
1:04Well, uh I think obviously uh it's well
1:07known that I've been wanting to talk uh
1:10for quite a while. My
1:12um when the case was over, uh I wanted
1:15to talk immediately. Unfortunately, um I
1:18had some new lawyers and I was involved
1:20in another litigation, this civil suit.
1:22Uh they had some concerns cuz they
1:24hadn't really spent any time with me.
1:26They had a lot of concerns uh that uh
1:29anything I might say may be used against
1:31me and not knowing me and not uh
1:34understanding uh um how I see things and
1:37how I speak. and uh uh really not even
1:41though they followed the case, not being
1:42totally up on the case, they were they
1:44were a little reluctant for me to speak
1:46at that time. So was most of my lawyers.
1:48They felt that that I was at a time
1:50where I was still coming down from an
1:52emotional, you know, this emotional
1:54thing. Are you doing this for the money
1:56too? Oh, obviously for obviously uh I uh
1:59I've spent a career collecting a certain
2:02uh wealth. Uh I've a lot of people have
2:06relied on me over those years uh family
2:09in-laws and uh and I've had to use all
2:11that up all those savings up uh uh to
2:14defend myself. Uh were you coached? Were
2:16you coached at all on what to say here
2:19today? Not at all. Uh I think one thing
2:21that u my new lawyers found uh once they
2:24sat down with me and they did sit down
2:26with me, they did interview me uh and in
2:29in the course of firing questions at me
2:31uh they felt uh pretty good about uh me
2:35as a client by letting you letting you
2:37go and talk and say it the way you want
2:39to say want to say things. Yes. I want
2:41to begin by talking about two very
2:43important moments and both of them
2:44happened in the courtroom. Uh, one was
2:46the day you stood before Judge Judge
2:48Lancido and you said that you were 100%
2:50not
2:51guilty. Now, ultimately, of course, the
2:53jury agreed with that. But, um, the
2:55truth is that in the minds of millions
2:57of people around the world, you killed
2:59Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. They
3:01believed that. That's their perception.
3:04And now, and because you had a lot of
3:06money and you had some innovative
3:07lawyers, you're going to get away with
3:09it. Can you live with that public
3:11perception in the minds of some people?
3:13Well, I don't think doing this tape is
3:15going to change a lot of minds. Uh,
3:16basically, I think the people who have
3:18had faith in me and believed in me, uh,
3:20hopefully I'll, uh, justify that and
3:23give them some fodder so that when when
3:25they're out debating with people, uh,
3:28uh, uh, you know, have a little more
3:30ammunition. But I I also think that uh,
3:33I believe in people. I've always got
3:36along with people. I've uh, I've always
3:38found people interesting. And I think
3:40basically people are honest and they
3:42want to be fair. And I think as this
3:46trial goes on and as I speak more some
3:48truths will come out that didn't come
3:50out during the course of this trial. I I
3:53felt that during the trial there was a
3:55lot of misrepresentations made by the
3:56prosecution that for whatever re reason
4:00the media used. Uh maybe it was a better
4:02story. I realize now that it's the story
4:06uh the ratings are more important uh
4:08than the truth. And uh that's something
4:10that has become abundantly clear to me
4:12uh through this ordeal and especially
4:14since this ordeal has been over and as
4:16we speak uh hopefully that will become
4:18abundantly clear to a lot of our
4:19viewers. You have you were a very public
4:22man. You your whole career was out in
4:24the public. But the question is you can
4:27never be that way again can you? Well I
4:29don't want to be that way again to be
4:31honest. Uh I like me I like uh my image.
4:35I felt a certain responsibility. Uh I
4:38had heroes when I was a kid growing up
4:40and I felt uh a certain responsibility
4:42and I thought I did well with that
4:44responsibility. I wasn't perfect like no
4:46hero, no American, no human is perfect
4:48and I had my faults but I despite what I
4:52see some of my distractors say. I don't
4:54think I went out of my way to work on my
4:56image. I think everyone who knew me knew
4:58the OJ they saw on TV. The OJ that they
5:00work with is the OJ that that that guy
5:03that they run around with and hang out
5:04with. uh most of the people that I've
5:06ever worked with uh in my life had have
5:08become friends and they would say I'm
5:10the same guy. The other moment in the
5:13trial that we all remember of course is
5:14the reading of the verdict. Um not
5:18guilty. What that moment when you heard
5:22those words? What went through your
5:23mind?
5:25I was really numb. Uh I I must admit up
5:29until the day before I thought it would
5:30be a hung jury. I thought one or two of
5:32the jurors would not vote for a quiddle.
5:36Um and uh I was real concerned about
5:39that because I Johnny Cochran had told
5:41me it'd be maybe two years before he
5:43could come back to the case. I knew what
5:44Shaq and New felt. These guys had other
5:46lives. So
5:48you looked relieved. Well, I was
5:50relieved, but I was almost numb. I was
5:52fighting my emotions. Uh the one thing I
5:55didn't want to do was uh lose
6:00uh I don't say lose my cool but
6:03uh I can say this um I looked at Van
6:07Adder and if Van Adder would have looked
6:10at me I would have lost my cool. Phil
6:12Van I would have lost my cool and I was
6:14just trying to tell myself that I had
6:17gotten through this. I tried to do it
6:19with uh some kind of dignity and I
6:22didn't want to lose it at that moment.
6:24Did you think about Nicole?
6:27At that moment, no. No. At that moment,
6:30I was thinking about I was going to hug
6:32Sydney and Justin. I was going to hug
6:34Arnell and Jason. I had
6:36gone I had gone what 16 months when when
6:40I was hadn't been able to touch anybody
6:42that I loved. I can touch lawyers, but
6:44nobody that I can love. And it was real
6:46tough. And I'm a toucher. I'm a hugger.
6:49Everyone who knows me knows I'm a very
6:50affectionate person. And my kids, my son
6:53and I, he's 25. We kiss. You know, my
6:56young son and I, we kiss Sydney, Arnell,
6:59we are kissers and huggers. And and I
7:01think more than anything, I was saying I
7:03was going to see my kids. I knew my
7:05older kids were strong. Uh it was my
7:08younger kids I was most concerned about.
7:10And on my mind that day was uh was I I
7:13actually had planned to walk out of that
7:15courtroom, take a a van or a car right
7:19down to Lagona and hug my kids.
7:23A tough question, but you knew obviously
7:26Nicole very well. She was your wife for
7:28a long time. What do you think she would
7:30have said about the verdict that day?
7:31Oh, Nicole would would have stood by me.
7:35Nicole, there's so many people who who
7:38are alle who are alleged friends. The
7:41interesting thing about it, Nicole knew
7:43a lot of the weaknesses of the people
7:45who are I think benefiting from what has
7:48happened here. And Nicole would have
7:50been you like she always was with me
7:51when there was a problem when there was
7:53a problem in our family that we the two
7:56of us no matter what we were going
7:57through in our lives we always stood
7:59real strong with one another when we're
8:01apart. something that the press don't
8:03seem to want to um uh talk about or
8:07write about. Uh they want to give a
8:08total opposite um skew on it. Even even
8:13when we're apart, when we're divorced,
8:15when we had other lies, whenever there
8:17was something major, something
8:18emotional. Nicole on a few occasions had
8:21some very serious for her emotional
8:23issues come up with her then boyfriends.
8:26She didn't call her mother. you call OJ
8:29her or and maybe core fisherman her best
8:31friend Fay wasn't in her life at that
8:33point in time but I was a person she
8:35came to with problems that you would be
8:38really surprised that uh this so-called
8:41jealous uh possessive individual that
8:44that this woman would come to me with
8:46problems that she had with her with her
8:48lovers
8:49we could we could talk for days and go
8:51back all over the events of the trial
8:53the specific evidence but let me ask you
8:55about some key questions because people
8:56became a soap opera for people and they
8:58followed every day of this trial and
9:01there were nagging questions in people's
9:02minds when the verdict was announced not
9:05guilty because things they couldn't
9:07understand
9:09um and things that they may not have had
9:11a clear picture in their mind as to why
9:15this happened. The amazing number of
9:18improbable coincidences concerning this
9:21crime that tie to you. Do you agree that
9:24there's an amazing number of improbable
9:26coincidences? Not at all. Not at all.
9:29Your blood. Your blood at the crime
9:31scene. I don't believe that was a
9:33coincidence. How do you explain it?
9:34Well, first of all, if it was my blood,
9:37which I don't believe. But if in fact it
9:40was my blood, it wasn't deposited there
9:41that night. I was not there that night.
9:44I had spent a lot of time at Nicole's
9:46house, probably more at her house than
9:48my house in the previous year. Um, uh, I
9:51had been there quite a bit. That's where
9:52we kept our dogs. I had been there the
9:54week previous uh to these murders
9:56because the dogs were fighting and I had
9:58to go over and get one of the dogs and
10:00bring them home. But when I look at the
10:02evidence of blood, this so-called blood
10:05trail, I asked a lot of questions. I
10:08first of all, I want to know why would
10:10someone like Misola who collected these
10:12blood drops, who claimed in previous
10:15testimony under oath that she put her
10:18initials on each one of these bindles.
10:20But when they got the sale mark and they
10:22got the DOJ, there was no initials
10:23there. Of course, the prosecution, as
10:25they did with every witness in this case
10:28who dealt with the blood, who was on the
10:30scene that day, got her to question her
10:33own testimony. In her case, it was maybe
10:36maybe she didn't um she didn't initial
10:40those bendles. When she initialed the
10:42bindals on everything else in this case
10:44and every other case she's done, she's
10:46done it. She testified she did in this
10:47case. and and for some reason those
10:51initials disappeared that Ross and I I
10:54may go on sometimes cuz I got so much in
10:56me that I want to say and I may get a
10:58little long at times that in court one
11:00day came
11:02out the prosecution uh I guess in
11:05cross-examinations were were somewhat
11:07prepared for it and they got her to say
11:09that maybe after she claimed she had
11:12under oath maybe she didn't that night I
11:16really I remember Bob Shapiro saying to
11:17Well, that'll be the big story tonight.
11:19You know, I'm watching the news that
11:20night when I got back to my cell. It
11:22wasn't one word uh mention about it. I I
11:26think the big news was some
11:28inconsequential ruling Edo had. And to
11:30me, it's things like that. That was a to
11:32me the best example. This should have
11:34been a piv pivotable point. Um uh um
11:39you've talked to the jury. Was it a
11:40pivotal point?
11:42A few of the I haven't talked to the
11:43jury, but a few of them have mentioned
11:47that they found that to be strange. So,
11:48they were paying attention. But that
11:50night, none of the pundits spoke about
11:51that. And once again, you talk about the
11:53public out there. The public got the
11:56spin that they got at night at that, you
11:58know, when they once they got home that
11:59night. But the coincidences still
12:01remain. again, you know, whether it's
12:03yours or not, the contention, your blood
12:06at the crime scene. Your blood
12:09coincidence here at Rockingham found the
12:11same night of uh that the crime happened
12:14and in the Bronco. Well, in if in fact
12:16that was my blood here at the home. If
12:18in fact it was, I don't find that to be
12:20such a coincidence. Was it? I don't
12:22think so. But I don't find it
12:25coincidence.
12:27How did it get here? Whose blood was it
12:29here at Rockingham? If in fact it was
12:31mine, if in fact it was mine, I live
12:33here at Rockingham. You know, I think
12:35you're going to be surprised at how
12:37little blood is involved in this this
12:40bloody home that I hear is there were
12:42drops of blood drops of blood on the
12:44driveway. If in fact it happened, if in
12:46fact I deposited, it would have not been
12:50certainly not after leaving Nicole's
12:51house because I hadn't been in Nicole's
12:53house and maybe when I was running
12:55around, I really had absolutely no
12:56answer for that. I I personally I am
13:00very skeptical about whose blood that
13:02was. What about the victim's blood in
13:05your bronco? Once again, it's the we go
13:08back to the same thing. Uh I hear about
13:10blood being in my bronco. I'm told that
13:12there should have been a lot more blood
13:14in the Bronco. If this was a victim's
13:16blood, I it amazes me
13:18that that experienced criminalists could
13:22look in this car in this Bronco looking
13:25for blood. This is the trial of the
13:27century, the case of all time. I mean,
13:28you heard the detectives talk about that
13:31from day one. And for 2 months, they
13:32can't find blood. Uh people got in that
13:36car looking for blood on this um um
13:39dashboard and on the divider, I guess. I
13:42can't recall what they call that.
13:44Console. Console. And uh they don't find
13:47blood. And months later, they find it.
13:48They put it all together and they say
13:50it's the victim's blood. I find it
13:51curious that there was a four alo drop
13:54of blood on the steering wheel that
13:55didn't come to Nicole, didn't come to
13:57Ron Goldman, didn't come to OJ Simpson.
14:00I would submit that if they would have
14:02typed that blood drop or smudge that
14:05they saw on the door handle of the
14:06Bronco, it probably would have been a
14:09four AO. Uh uh but they didn't. I don't
14:13understand how I definitely went to my
14:17Bronco right before I left. I opened the
14:19door in my Bronco. I went in the Bronco.
14:21Allan Park Ko were here at that time.
14:23Why wasn't my finger uh fingerprints on
14:26the handle of my Bronco? I submit
14:28somebody opened that Bronco, didn't want
14:30their fingerprints on it, erased it. I
14:32submit that there's no way that Mark
14:34Ferman could have seen the blood spots
14:36that he claimed to have seen on the
14:38running board and stuff of that car
14:39unless the door was open. And I think
14:41that was proven. I don't think anybody
14:42disputes that you could not see those
14:44blood spots that he claimed to have seen
14:46unless he was in the Bronco. I don't
14:49think anybody disputes that you could
14:51not see those blood spots that he
14:53claimed to have seen unless he was in
14:55the Bronco.
14:57Your hair found in the knit cap at the
14:59crime scene. No, that's that's
15:01inaccurate. It's not No, I mean I'm say
15:03it's inaccurate. They No one said that
15:05was my hair. They said hair similar to
15:07and I'll go to Hank Goldberg on that.
15:09Hank Goldberg when he was speaking with
15:11uh Henry Lee about uh um uh something
15:15that was consistent I think was the word
15:17consistent. Consistent with what they
15:18used to uh and I'll use Hank Goldberg's
15:22words on that. Hank Goldberg said to
15:24Henry Lee, "When you say consistent
15:27with, you're not saying it is right.
15:29You're not saying it's a fact. You're
15:31saying maybe it could be." Uh, and what
15:37the jury representation, there's hairs
15:39in that hat that they say wasn't
15:41consistent with mine. There's hair hairs
15:43that that they said was consistent with
15:45mine. But I submit you can take 10 black
15:48guys, you know, and you'll find that
15:50hair consistent with probably a number
15:52of them. Size 12 Bruno Molly shoe prints
15:55found at the crime scene. What size
15:57shoes do you wear? OJ coincidence? Well,
15:59if you go into my closet, you'll see
16:01from 10 and a half to 13s. Uh, they
16:03focused on twelves. It's coincidence. I
16:06understand. It's a coincidence. But let
16:07me ask you this. Let me ask the public
16:09this. The FBI did an exhaustive search
16:13about Bruno Magly shoes. They said it
16:15was a rare shoe. They went to every
16:18outlet that sold Bruno Maggley shoes.
16:21Not one person said they ever sold me
16:23these Bruno Maggley shoes. Now, they
16:25said this is a very uh the the most
16:29exhaustive investigation of all time.
16:32Right. No, I was the most exhaustively
16:34uh investigated person of all time. The
16:36case wasn't. Who bought Bruno Maggley
16:38shoes? Did the FBI tell us who in LA
16:41might have purchased Bruno Maggley
16:42shoes? Uh, if they did, we don't know
16:44about that. Did you ever have any?
16:47First of all, I would have never worn
16:48those ugly shoes, you know. I can't tell
16:51you I can't tell you the name of the
16:53shoes I have on now. I I think with most
16:55men Mhm. Uh, unless they're tennis
16:57shoes, you know, uh, Nike or, you know,
17:00some make of a a tennis shoe. You know,
17:02the name of your tennis shoe. I can't
17:04tell you the name of any, and I may have
17:06upwards of 40 pair of shoes uh,
17:09upstairs, shoes upstairs. Um, I couldn't
17:12tell you the name of the shoe. So, you
17:13don't know if you ever owned a pair of
17:14these shoes. I don't know. I've never
17:16walked into a shoe store and asked uh
17:19for a named pair of shoes ever in my
17:21life. Do you still have the two pairs of
17:23gloves that Nicole bought for you? I
17:25don't know if Nicole ever bought me
17:26gloves. I never recall Nicole ever
17:28buying me gloves. Now, we do have, and
17:30the prosecution knows this, we do have
17:33uh uh discovery from friends of ours uh
17:37at least one uh that said Nicole bought
17:39him two pair of shoes. I mean, two pair
17:41of gloves, not these pair of gloves. At
17:43Christmas, I buy for possibly, I don't
17:47know, over well over a hundred people.
17:49Nicole normally was in charge of getting
17:51Christmas presents for various people. I
17:53would buy for my son, for AC, for Marcus
17:55Allen, uh, you know, a few of my very
17:58close friends I would buy for, but then
18:01we had this other group of friends and
18:03Nicole would get the list and she'd go
18:04out and buy for them. I don't know if
18:06she bought these gloves for someone. I
18:08do know that one person did come forward
18:10and also sent the gloves that she had
18:12purchased uh uh for him and I'm not sure
18:14this but I'm pretty sure that was from
18:16but you had them on in the photograph.
18:18No, no, no. I had on gloves that look
18:21similar to them. They may have been that
18:23make. I don't know. But if you look at
18:25pictures of me on sidelines, you've seen
18:27me wear numerous gloves, numerous
18:30colored gloves. Where are any of those
18:32gloves? In those pictures, I asked you,
18:35"Where are any of the clothes that I
18:36wore in those?" Uh, but the coincidence,
18:38I'm talking about public perception and
18:40coincidence. And isn't it a coincidence
18:42that you stand in a photograph with
18:44similar gloves on to the gloves that
18:47were apparently worn by the murderer? I
18:50don't know. It's a coincidence, isn't
18:51it? You can say it's a coincidence, but
18:53I I submit that any well-dressed man uh
18:55who wears gloves, everybody in the East
18:57wears gloves. And I you can walk down
18:59the street and I can guarantee you time
19:01and time again you'll see similar make
19:04gloves. I find it is it a coincidence
19:05that there was no gloves upstairs? Is it
19:08a coincidence that I had uh one glove
19:11that looked like these gloves? As a
19:12matter of fact, I would submit to you if
19:14I put on the one glove they found
19:16upstairs that had lambkin interior and I
19:18stood across this room or you took a
19:20picture, it'd be pretty difficult to
19:21tell that glove from the gloves that
19:24they said I was wearing in the in the in
19:26the uh you know the photographs and
19:28trials. I also say what happened to the
19:30other glove of that? I'm with gloves the
19:32way I am with sunglasses. I lose them. I
19:35have a thing that I do that I'm sure the
19:37prosecution uh in their exhaustive
19:39investigation has discovered that every
19:41six months when I'm in New York, when I
19:43leave New York, I give 90% of my clothes
19:46away. When I leave LA in August, I give
19:5090% of my clothes away. They've
19:52investigated this. They've talked to my
19:54doormen in New York. They've talked to
19:55my house help here. That's what I do.
19:58So, if you had gloves, they're they're
20:00tossed to the wind. They're some
20:01possibly. I you know I really I really
20:03don't I don't know where my black gloves
20:04are. I don't know where the other glove
20:05to the lambkin glove uh uh uh went. But
20:09as I say to you, they took pictures of
20:11me wearing an outfit, right? I asked
20:13them, "Where is any single apparel
20:16except maybe the tie I might still have
20:18uh that you see in a big coat. There's
20:20one big coat I'm pretty sure is still
20:22back in New York. Where any of the
20:24clothes that you see me wearing in those
20:26pictures?" Okay.
20:29Who was the person that Alan Park saw
20:31walking across your driveway just uh was
20:33it 4 minutes before 11? Who was that
20:35person? See, once again, we we go to
20:38Marshia Clark and I think if I hope we
20:41have enough time and you ask enough
20:42questions, I'll try to shorten my
20:44answers up so that we can want to hit
20:46these these points of that people have
20:49questions about never answered. It's
20:51never been revealed who that is. The
20:54problem is Marsha Clark, Marsha Clark
20:57has given an impression of things and
20:59people are living with those
21:00impressions. I'm seeing the pundits on
21:02TV commenting on things that were not
21:05facts in this case. There was never Alan
21:08Park never once said that he saw anybody
21:12walking across a driveway. During
21:14questioning, he certainly indicated that
21:16he may saw someone right outside the
21:18front door of my house. Yes, he put an X
21:20on an exhibit to show exactly where that
21:23was. So there could be no mistaking what
21:25what Marsha said and what has been
21:27repeated time and again by the pundits
21:30uh was not true. It was not evidence in
21:32this case. I did walk out the door. I
21:35walked out to the door right to the
21:36point where he put an X uh on that
21:40picture. I dropped some luggage. I took
21:42my golf bags off the bench. I dropped
21:44them there. I signaled what I thought
21:46was Dale. I thought it was my old limo
21:48driver, Dale. a regular limo driver.
21:49Yeah, at that point I didn't realize it
21:51was someone other than Dale. I don't
21:53know if that's the correct time you have
21:54also, but I dropped that right there.
21:57Right when Ko evidently let him in. He
22:00drove up right where those two bags were
22:02sitting. Mhm. Is right where he put the
22:04X. That's right where I walked to. And I
22:06turned around, went back upstairs,
22:09finished up with my clothes in my bag,
22:11put a shirt on, and came right back
22:12downstairs in 2 minutes or so. It didn't
22:14take me much more than 2 minutes to do
22:16that. Why did you lie to the limo driver
22:18and tell him you were asleep and that's
22:19why you missed his ringing? No. See,
22:21that's once again uh Allan Park, who I
22:23felt was as honest as he could be, but I
22:28think we'll show you quite um
22:30convincingly that his perceptions were
22:34weren't all that reliable that night on
22:36virtually everything he spoke about that
22:38night. In this instance, I never ever
22:41ever said that I was sleep ever. When I
22:43walked outside, Ko Kalin said to me,
22:47"Did you oversleep?" I saw in one report
22:51where Ko said to Allan Park when he
22:53first saw him, "Uh, he must have
22:56overslept." So, I'm assuming with all of
22:58this happening, Allan Park just assumed
23:00I overslept. The main reason I went to
23:04McDonald's instead of just had a bowl of
23:06cereal
23:08uh is because I was trying to stay
23:09awake. It was Ko who had said to me when
23:11we returned to my house, well, maybe you
23:13can take a nap. And I said, "Hey, I
23:15don't have time to take a nap." And I
23:16didn't want to take a nap. I was getting
23:18on a red eyee. Uh, and if you've ever
23:21taken red eyes, the last thing I wanted
23:23to do was sleep before I got on the red
23:24eyee cuz I had hoped to be able to sleep
23:26on the red eye. What was in the bag?
23:29What bag? The bag that Ko Kalin that
23:32apparently you did not let Ko Kalin put
23:34in the limousine. That's how it was
23:37phrased. That's the public perception of
23:39what happened. Yeah. Well, that goes
23:41like someone walking down the driveway
23:43and across the driveway. It was very
23:45simple. We were packing. Ko said it.
23:47There's a bag over there and I said,
23:49"Yeah, I'll get it." Since I was going
23:50out to my Bronco anyway, I walked by the
23:52bag. Didn't pick it up when I walked by.
23:54Went out to my Bronco. Really got the
23:57guts to my mobile phone and walked back
23:59in and picked the bag up. Actually
24:01picked up two bags. One that KO never
24:02mentioned was a white bag that was also
24:05sitting there with balls in it. picked
24:07both bags up, walked back to the front
24:09of the house, and at that point, Ko was
24:11talking about finding a um a flashlight.
24:14I told him to look in my kitchen. I
24:17actually asked Allan Park to get my golf
24:19bag out, but Ko was talking about the
24:21flashlight. I walked in my front door,
24:23dropped the white bag down, which
24:25somehow got lost in all of this. And
24:27that had golf balls in it. That also had
24:28golf that had golf balls in it. It was
24:30right by my front door. And I believe in
24:32some of the uh pictures uh uh taken uh
24:35you will see that white bag there. So
24:37what was in the black bag? Golf balls.
24:40Usable. Usable golf balls and a
24:42windbreaker.
24:44Okay. There was a recent story that I
24:48want to ask you about right up front
24:49that uh Paula Barbieri broke up with you
24:51the night that Nicole was murdered
24:53earlier that evening. I learned that uh
24:55in jail.
24:58What do you mean you learned that in
24:59jail? that she had left you a message or
25:02Well, yeah. Well, actually, one day she
25:04was we were talking about something in
25:06jail and um it came up, you know, that
25:09she was, you know, that I don't know.
25:11See, Paul and I uh as she said in her,
25:13and I can't really talk about her
25:15deposition, the prosecution know full
25:17well that she left that message on a
25:20mobile cellular phone and they also know
25:22full well that I never retrieved any
25:24messages that day. So, so if she did,
25:26Yeah. I just never retrieved it. And if
25:28I had retrieved it, it was not a big
25:30deal because uh just a week or actually
25:3310 days previous to that uh I uh we had
25:35gone to Palm Springs and and she said
25:37this in her deposition. I shouldn't be
25:39talking about it, but basically she was
25:41upset that I went and played golf and
25:42she left Palm Springs and split up with
25:44me, but when I came home I saw her and
25:46we went on with our lives and that
25:48probably would what would have happened
25:50that day. The jury said not guilty. But
25:53there's a there's one thing that most
25:55everyone is sure of now or many people
25:57are and that is the OJ Simpson that we
25:59saw for years on the football field and
26:01we saw in TV commercials and and in the
26:04movies. Um that's not the real OJ.
26:08Um are you you can't be real proud of
26:12your relationship with Nicole. Yes, I am
26:14totally proud. There may be an incident
26:16or two in our relationship. And any
26:18person out there that can't look at one
26:21or two instances that they may not uh be
26:24so fond of in a 17-year relationship,
26:26they you know, they're not being honest
26:28with us. There's an instance or two in
26:30our relationship that I'm certainly wish
26:33not have happened. But uh let me tell
26:36you about this house. This house was
26:38always loaded with people. We couldn't
26:40take a trip without all our friends
26:42wanting to go with us because we had a
26:44loving home, a loving relationship. It
26:46was always fun to be around us. That was
26:49our relationship. That was our
26:50relationship for the full time. Even the
26:53year after being apart a year and a
26:55half. When we came back together for a
26:57year, everybody, if we took a trip, we
26:59couldn't take a trip alone. Everybody
27:01wanted to go with us because we were fun
27:03people to be with. Relationship.
27:05Everybody heard Nicole's sister on the
27:08stand say that you physically and
27:10emotionally abused Nicole. Everyone has
27:13heard the 911 tape. Okay, let's, you
27:15know, I'm in a funny place with Denise.
27:18The I believe in family. You see, I have
27:20a strong family. I know right now Denise
27:23Nicole would not be happy with Denise.
27:27Uh, let me
27:31say she's sitting in Jess's aunt. So, I
27:35mean, I'm I'm really in a funny place
27:37here orally for myself. But, let me let
27:40me say this. Let me say this. Anyone
27:42that knew Nicole knew where they stood
27:45with her. They knew what she was about
27:47emotionally, where they stood
27:49emotionally. Nicole didn't take any crap
27:52from anyone. I think her mother has been
27:53pretty clear on you, OJ. didn't she? Let
27:56me All right. I'm sorry. Go ahead and
27:57finish. You know, uh she didn't take any
27:59crap from anyone. She gave as much as
28:01she got from anybody and everybody. She
28:04was not a wallflower. She did not stand
28:06around. If I was out of line publicly,
28:09with friends, they've seen it with
28:10househel, with nannies, with people
28:12who've lived in this house. Uh the the
28:14prosecution talked to all of those
28:16people. And the reason you didn't see
28:17them in court because it wasn't the
28:19picture that they were trying to paint
28:20of me. Nicole was a strong woman who
28:23didn't take crap from anybody. And
28:26that's not the image that Denise has
28:27been uh promoting out there. Anyone who
28:30knows her knows that. And even Denise
28:31said that originally when it wasn't
28:33beneficial to go another way. She said
28:36Nicole didn't take any crap from
28:37anybody, including Denise. I can say
28:39this, and I can say this, and many
28:40people will back me up on this. I was
28:43with Nicole for 17 years, and I can tell
28:45you I saw her cry. And Nicole didn't cry
28:47much more about Denise than anything
28:51everything else combined. You're saying
28:54Denise has betrayed your relationship
28:55with Nicole? Totally. And betrayed
28:57Nicole. The image of Nicole, the type of
28:59person Nicole was with. You go to people
29:01who've known Nicole for 10, 15 years.
29:03Plus, let me say this. Denise was never
29:04around. We went six months a year
29:06without seeing Denise. We saw Denise
29:09during periods of times when there were
29:10family events and she was around. Denise
29:13was not a person that Nicole I can tell
29:15you this in the year that Nicole and I
29:16was apart and she had another group of
29:18friends a lot of guy friends she did not
29:20bring Denise around those people. Let's
29:23talk about the 911 call. Yes. In 1989 I
29:26was wrong. 1989 I locked her out of my
29:30bedroom. She got a key and came in and I
29:32physically removed her from that
29:33bedroom. She sustained some bruises
29:36doing that. Uh some superficial bruises,
29:39nonetheless bruises. Um, I'm a big guy.
29:42If I punch a person, they're gonna swell
29:43up. They're going to look punched. I did
29:44not punch her, but I physically removed
29:47her from my bedroom. Uh, and Nicole is a
29:50person that you can't physically do
29:52anything with without a struggle. I was
29:54wrong. Uh, uh, Detective Frell, who
29:57testified, who investigated the case, I
30:00made no excuses. I was wrong. I was
30:03willing to face whatever they wanted me
30:05to face. uh uh to next day. I made
30:08absolutely no excuses. It was a front
30:11page story. Even though I'm hearing uh
30:13uh from certain special interest groups
30:15that oh they swept it under the rugs.
30:17This was a front page story. We had two
30:19newspapers then. Hero Examiner had a big
30:22front page story on it. Uh I went to
30:24court even though Nicole and our uh
30:27relationship was very strong the time I
30:29went to court. I pleaded no contest not
30:31to drag my uh family through this. I was
30:34giving community given community service
30:37time, which I did. When it was over, the
30:40judge made me do more. He didn't accept
30:42some of my uh community service time. I
30:45saw a therapist alone and with Nicole.
30:48We went to uh um uh therapy together and
30:52I went alone. Not only did I go alone
30:54for the time that they gave me, to this
30:56day, I still see that therapist from
30:58time to time when I feel I need another
31:00perspective on uh certain relationships
31:03uh that I might be in. Even though I
31:05hear and I read that, oh, he didn't do
31:08anything. Uh they swept it under the
31:10rug. This thing was anything but swept
31:12under the rug. Do you have a volatile
31:14temper? I don't think so. I am
31:17argumentative. I'm allowed. Anybody
31:19who's ever been on a golf course with my
31:20group, they know we're allowed. I want
31:22to go on with this 911 call. Yeah, we
31:24got a lot more to talk about. Okay. The
31:26911 call that you hear, see, there's an
31:30impression that that 911 call is there
31:33was some something physical took place.
31:34Nothing physical took place in the 911
31:37call where you hear Nicole speak. I
31:39don't apologize for that. I truly don't
31:42apologize for that. But her voice was so
31:44afraid in that 911 call. Yes. But her
31:46voice wasn't afraid 10 minutes earlier
31:48when she was yelling at me. She called
31:51me. This is something that the
31:53prosecution, the Tammy Bruces of the
31:55world don't want you to hear. There's
31:57another tape about that night. You
31:59listen to that tape. You listen to the
32:01police uh receptionist uh tell her what
32:04does he want? Well, what is he doing
32:06now? Well, he knocked on the bedroom
32:07door. And where is he now? He went
32:09downstairs. Uh what did he want? He
32:11wanted to know why the bedroom door was
32:12locked. Of course, I wanted to know. I
32:14went home not to argue. I left her house
32:16that night because I didn't want to
32:17argue about the matter we were arguing
32:19about. She called me, reminded me that I
32:22said we had to talk everything out and
32:23argue everything out. That was one of
32:25the conditions that I had set on coming
32:27back to her for a year when when I
32:29agreed to try the relationship again. Uh
32:32so yes, I was wrong. I got in my car. I
32:34went there. We argued and in the course
32:36of arguing, she turned and walked in the
32:37house. I walked behind her. I kicked the
32:39door. A door that was already broke. You
32:41listen to the video. You listen to a
32:43surreptitiously taped tape that the
32:45police officer did when he arrived
32:47without telling us that I guess they've
32:49been listening to it for amusement uh
32:51for the the year that uh followed that.
32:54You hear her say that door was already
32:56broke. We're in an argument. Ko arrives.
32:59You guys shouldn't be arguing. I think
33:01she's still downstairs. We're in the
33:02midst of an argument. I don't know. She
33:04went upstairs. And when she went
33:05upstairs, I walked upstairs. I knocked
33:07on her bedroom door. I didn't kick it
33:09in. I knocked on her bedroom door. She
33:12didn't want to come out and argue. I
33:14went back downstairs and continued to
33:16vent my frustration and my side of the
33:19argument to KO Kalin. At one point, the
33:21police officer asked on the phone tell
33:24her to stay in her room. She says, "I
33:26don't want to stay in my room." She
33:28comes downstairs. She's in the room with
33:30me. This is not a woman that's afraid.
33:31The police aren't there. She came
33:33downstairs in the room that I was in.
33:35And I think she's on the phone with her
33:36mother complaining to her mother. I
33:38don't know that the police had been
33:40called. I certainly wouldn't be sitting
33:41there yelling if knowing that she's
33:43behind that door holding up the phone
33:45for the police. But an interesting thing
33:48came as I said in this seritiously taped
33:51uh which is I guess you would call a
33:52spontaneous uh utterance. The guy asked
33:56her about previous
33:58um um incidences. She mentions one New
34:02Year's 1989. The guy asked her, "Did you
34:05think he was going to hit you?" She
34:07says, "No, I don't think OJ would hit
34:09me. He had to do C a community service.
34:11I don't think he would hit me." So, this
34:12was an argument. This was a family
34:14argument. When it was over, I left. All
34:17those things are on the record. I left.
34:19She called me the next day and
34:20apologized for calling the police
34:22because And I'll show you this. Uh you
34:25can hear this if they ever play the
34:27seritiously tape tape. Nicole called me.
34:30I went home not to argue. She called me
34:32to come back there to argue. And it was
34:34only an argument. nothing physical
34:36between the two of us happened then. She
34:38also mentioned then that since 1989 OJ
34:41has never touched me. She told the
34:43police that a spontaneous utterance
34:45which I guess has some validity in a
34:46courtroom during various times though.
34:49Um were you spying on her? Were you
34:51hiding in the bushes? Well, you were at
34:53one point hiding in the bushes, weren't
34:54you? Watching her have oral sex on on
34:57the couch. I mean, that's what's been
34:58written and and of course that's what
35:00been written because that's a story they
35:01want to put out there. Absolutely not
35:04true. Absolutely. You never spy on her.
35:06Never. I Here's We're two people that
35:08live in the same neighborhood. We've
35:11been going out together for 15 years. We
35:13at that time like the same places, same
35:16restaurants, same music. You know, in a
35:18year and a half, her and I showed up in
35:20the same place twice. Now, all of a
35:23sudden, the prosecution made tried to
35:25make those two times uh stalking. Well,
35:28in one of those instances, I had had
35:30dinner with a friend. He suggested that
35:32we go by this uh uh mealuna place. It
35:35was a happening night and we went in and
35:36when we went in that place, Nicole
35:39spotted us. She came over to us. She
35:42kissed my friend. She kissed me. She
35:44asked us to join him and join him. I
35:46don't know. There's a They tell me this
35:48Keith is I don't know I don't know him
35:51from anybody. There's a bunch of people
35:52there that night. I guess I met him. I
35:54bought them drinks. They bought me
35:55drinks. Nicole was going dancing with
35:58with Cora Fishman, her best friend. They
36:00invited me to go dancing with them. I
36:02went dancing with them. Nicole and I
36:04went to her home together that night. We
36:07were separated. We were living apart.
36:09That's a stalking incident that you've
36:11heard, right? That that's supposedly a
36:13stalking incident. Uh the other one, uh
36:15I we went it was an opening of a
36:17restaurant called Trist. I was joining a
36:19party that was there before Nicole's
36:21party arrived. So, how do you stalk a
36:23person if the people are there before
36:25their people? I mean, I'm joining a
36:27table of six. But those are the only two
36:30incidences of stalking. After the Tris
36:32incident, which was roughly 10 days,
36:35maybe two weeks from the Mesoluna
36:36incident, I went by Nicole's house. We
36:39had promised each other that if we got
36:41involved in another relationship, we let
36:43the other person know. At that point in
36:46time, we're in the midst of our divorce.
36:48We were having dinner together with the
36:49kids three or four nights a week. She
36:51still came here. Some nights even slept
36:53here. I still went to her house. I went
36:55by her house. I had gone to a dance
36:57after the uh Tris thing. I had gone by
37:00her house. I had no girlfriend. She had
37:02no boyfriend. As I approached her front
37:04door, her window was open wide open. And
37:07I saw her head and I looked. I saw what
37:09was happening. I didn't bang on the
37:11window. I didn't try to stop them. I did
37:14hit the doorbell as I left just so
37:16they'd be aware that they were kind of
37:18in the open. The next day, I spoke to
37:21her
37:22mother and I went by to speak to Nicole
37:25about it, about the incident. No
37:27argument, no nothing. I just My concern
37:29was it was relatively open in a house
37:33that my kids were at. We didn't have an
37:35argument about it. She said she was
37:36wrong. Even Keith, as I was leaving,
37:38said, "You're right. It was wrong."
37:40Period. I shook the man's hand and I
37:42left. I continued to see this guy
37:44throughout the summer, even though there
37:46was nothing romantic between. And she
37:48admitted it was a mistake. And none of
37:50her friends, no one, not any friend in
37:52Nicole's will ever tell you that there
37:53was anything romantic between the two.
37:55This was, as Nicole said, something that
37:57just happened that night. They had been
37:58drinking and who knows. And uh she said
38:01it was a mistake. And never ever ever at
38:04any other point did we talk about it. Uh
38:07did it come up? Whenever I saw him, I
38:09always asked him about his golf game.
38:11And that was the extent of that. That
38:12was the extent of it. In your suicide
38:13letter that that you wrote, you said
38:16that you considered yourself a battered
38:17husband. What kind of what was that
38:19self-pity all about? Is that what that
38:22was? Well, you know, you a battered
38:24husband. OJ Simpson, big guy, can take
38:26care of yourself. That that is a problem
38:28that when I when I am free to speak and
38:32I go and I plan to speak to women's
38:34groups, uh I I think that's an issue. Uh
38:38that's um an issue that you know battery
38:40is just not a one-way street. Uh I think
38:43it's more an attitude than anything.
38:45Just because it doesn't hurt when
38:46someone hits you or someone slaps you or
38:49someone in front of people is verbally
38:53abusive to you. To me, all that
38:55constitutes battery.
38:57Um Nicole was a loving person, but
38:59Nicole was a confrontational person, not
39:02only with me, with other people. Uh
39:05there are instances where I'm in my
39:06backyard and I hear Nicole with friends
39:09and you're free to interview him. Uh
39:12Nicole's running down the street because
39:14she's been in a confrontation with a
39:16neighbor and I'm over the wall going
39:18nose tonose with some big guy one block
39:20up, you know, because Nicole had a
39:22confrontation with him. There are
39:24as you sit here today, do you still
39:26think you're a battered husband or were
39:27a battered husband, battered boyfriend?
39:29I think batter is is you made a point
39:32earlier when you said there was fear in
39:34Nicole's voice. See, I thought there was
39:37a
39:39that's what the world heard on that 911
39:41tape, but who was she afraid of? She was
39:42afraid of you at that moment. No, she
39:44wasn't afraid of me at that moment.
39:46That's that's total BS. That's the
39:47presumption. Well, they don't that's
39:49presumption because like everything else
39:51in this case, they just want to hear a
39:53piece of things and not the whole thing.
39:54If they were given the hole, I mean I I
39:56think most people if they make a
39:57business decision or a lifelong
39:59decision, they look at the entire
40:01picture. In that case, they should have
40:02heard the entire tape and the seritious
40:05tape. If you hear that whole tape, your
40:06conclusion would be this was a control.
40:09This was a a situation where two people
40:11Ko Kalin was there. Two people were in
40:12an argument. One person had argued out
40:15and disappeared and the other person was
40:17continuing to argue and it was a matter
40:19of control at that in instance. Maybe
40:21she felt fear at that moment. She
40:23certainly didn't feel fear five minutes
40:25later, 10 minutes later. And she
40:28expressed the fact that she didn't think
40:29I would hit her. I hadn't been physical
40:32uh with her other than the 89 incident.
40:34She expressed that. And this is a woman
40:36that at the time was trying to get the
40:38police to get me to
40:39leave. Um have you What was the last
40:42thing you said to Nicole? Do you
40:44remember the last words that you spoke
40:45to Nicole? Sydney was beautiful. Sydney
40:48is beautiful. That was at the recital.
40:50Yeah, it was just it was almost mild.
40:52Uh, she's beautiful, you know, cuz we
40:54really didn't talk that night. She's
40:55beautiful. We had actually spoken that
40:57day about tickets. Have you been to her
41:00grave? Yes. What kind of experience was
41:03that for you?
41:06H once again, it's u the
41:10press. I arrived there early one morning
41:13with AC and
41:17um when I got on my knees to meditate, I
41:21I mean I wasn't even there 2 minutes. AC
41:24said, "OJ, here comes the
41:25press and I looked up and saw members of
41:28the press running towards us and so I
41:32left." There's so much to talk about.
41:34There's so many questions in this case.
41:36Let me just ask them to you as quickly
41:38as I can and let's see if we can get
41:40them answered for people. Your time
41:42between 9:36 on the day of the the
41:45evening of the murders and
41:4710:53. It's time that the prosecution
41:50says is unaccounted for. But let me ask
41:52you this question. Where were you at the
41:55time? I was a 46 year old man who lived
41:58basically alone. Ko lived out back. Ko
42:00would tell you I rarely saw this guy.
42:03Rarely saw this guy. I go to bed. I'm a
42:05guy who normally goes to bed at 8 or
42:078:30. I'm up at 4:30, 5:00 every day.
42:11Paula Bobbyi told you told uh you've
42:13heard this week Paula Bobby's comments
42:15about that. Every day.
42:18Why when does a man have to be held
42:21accountable for where he's at? When he's
42:23in his bedroom, when he's in his home,
42:25when he's a suspect for murder. That's
42:27that's what the prosecution says. We
42:29want to know where you were during that
42:30time. Well, if they would have when they
42:32asked me, I answered all the police
42:34questions about where I was that night.
42:36Basically, whatever questions they asked
42:38me, I answered. But basically, I was
42:41home. To me, once I get the 360 North
42:44Rocking in, when you come inside of
42:45those gates, I'm at home. You were here
42:47during that time. I was here during that
42:48time. So, the the the time that the
42:50prosecution claims generally that Nicole
42:53and Ron Goldman were murdered, you were
42:55here in this house. where I
42:57am the majority of the time basically
43:00alone
43:02all the time. So I mean somehow I heard
43:05uh there's no alibi. I said I never have
43:07an alibi. When has KO ever known ever
43:11known in the five or 6 months that he
43:13lived here? I guess Ko could tell you
43:15maybe twice
43:17uh he saw me uh after 8:30
43:21sitting around this house. I mean, when
43:23do you have to be held accountable for
43:24being in your bedroom, for being in your
43:26own home? Well,
43:29your trip to
43:30Chicago was a moment at the trial. Uh,
43:34and this is a question that people have
43:35asked me and and it's been around when
43:38you got the phone call. Yeah. Someone
43:40said to you on the phone, it was a
43:42police officer, said that Nicole was
43:44dead. Murdered was the words he used to
43:46me. Nicole was murdered. My my words to
43:51him I'll never forget because I was
43:54laying when I answered the phone and
43:56when he said murdered I kind of sat up
43:58because I knew it couldn't have been a
44:01prank.
44:03Uh and I you know you hear those words I
44:07mean what what do you mean this? He said
44:09to me OJ we don't know. There's nothing
44:13we can tell you. We're just trying to
44:15find out ourselves. We don't know
44:17anything. your kids are fine. Your kids
44:21are fine. And he proceeded to tell me
44:24about the kids being at a police
44:26station. I can tell you
44:28this. At 6:00 that night after flying to
44:31LA after spending the whole afternoon
44:33with the LAPD, I knew just as much from
44:36the LAPD. Their same words, if you look
44:39at the interview they did with me, were
44:41the exact same words that this officer
44:44Phillips used to me on the telephone. We
44:47don't know anything. We're trying to
44:49find out. We can't tell you anything. Is
44:52what he told me then. What they told me
44:54when I got here at 360 North Rockingham
44:57out front. What they told me during the
44:59course of the interview uh when they
45:01were interviewing me. And at one point I
45:02said, "Come on, you guys. You keep
45:03telling me. You, you know, you're going
45:05to tell me something. You keep asking me
45:07questions. Tell me something." Their
45:08words then was the exact words that they
45:10gave me that morning. We don't know.
45:13There's nothing we know. We're trying to
45:15find out. The story was that he said he
45:17told you Nicole was dead and you never
45:19asked how or why. No, he said Nicole was
45:21murdered. And he might have said Nicole
45:23was killed. I could be wrong there. He
45:25might have said Nicole was killed, but I
45:27know my words to him was, "What do you
45:29mean?" And I know he gave me a litany at
45:31that point that there's nothing. We
45:34don't know anything. We can't tell you
45:35anything. We're trying to find out, OJ.
45:38We don't know anything, but your kids
45:39are fine. Actually, he said your kids
45:41were fine before he told me that Nicole
45:43had been killed. You cut your hand
45:46supposedly in Chicago. Yes.
45:51I have never personally figured all of
45:53this out where you cut your hand a lot
45:55around the house and that's your
45:57explanation as to why if it's your blood
46:00it would be at the crime scene and
46:01around here. That's not my explanation
46:04at all. Right. I know that. I know that.
46:06Let me let me finish. But then the
46:08public hears, well, you cut your hand in
46:10Chicago and that's that's how uh the
46:12blood could have gotten in other
46:14locations. The blood is a coincidence.
46:18It's a story that is is and a story in
46:20itself with DNA and all of that
46:22complicated testimony that we went
46:25through. The prosecution kept saying
46:27though that the blood is the key to
46:30convicting OJ Simpson. Mhm. That's why
46:33they uh conveniently had their most
46:36inexperienced people knowing it was the
46:40maybe the case of the century. They
46:41purposely went out of their way to get
46:43their their most inexperienced people to
46:46collect the blood to process the blood.
46:48And you know what's interesting to me is
46:51that if the blood was the key to their
46:53case, why is it that the most
46:55contradictory
46:57uh testimony in this case where
46:59witnesses have taken a complete 180 has
47:02all been with these LAPD blood
47:04collection people? You know why? How
47:07many people were in on this conspiracy
47:09that you claim? I don't claim anything.
47:11I don't claim anything. You know, I I
47:14just I don't claim that I'm innocent. I
47:16am innocent. I don't make any claims
47:18outside of that. Was there an innocent
47:20man to frame you?
47:24I think obviously the LAPD, I don't know
47:27if they felt I was guilty or not, but
47:30obviously people in the LAPD went out of
47:33their way to make me look guilty.
47:35Starting with Gil Garcetti with his uh
47:37opening gamut with uh releasing the 911
47:40tapes knowing knowing there weren't
47:43eight or nine. They've investigated
47:44that. They've been get investigated
47:46their computer records. They put out
47:49memos and and and and and calls to every
47:52LA police officer who worked in West LA
47:55to come forward if you ever been to OJ
47:56Simpson's house for any any type of
47:59domestic discord and they just weren't
48:02there. Yet he knew that when he went on
48:04his national campaign talking about uh
48:07domestic violence and 89 911 calls.
48:11There is just no zero evidence to that.
48:15I was the most investigated person in
48:17history. This wasn't the most
48:18investigated case. OJ was the most
48:21investigated person in history. They
48:23couldn't find one person has ever seen
48:25me be other than Denise. And she Yeah,
48:28she's seen Nicole and I have our fights.
48:30One person out there that ever seen
48:32bruises on Nicole other than 89, ever
48:35seen me be violent with Nicole. They
48:38offered up to
48:39$200,000 to ex-girlfriends of mine. We
48:42hear that I've been abusive to women,
48:44ex-girlfriends of mine, women who dated
48:46me. Don't you find it curious that not
48:48one not one person has come forward? Not
48:52one per they need the money has come
48:54forward to say OJ was ever abusive. Not
48:57one person outside of Denise has ever
48:59come forward and said they ever seen me
49:01abusive with Nicole. And other than 89,
49:03not one person who known Nicole s saw
49:06her daily has ever come forward to say
49:09they saw her bruised ever. There were
49:12times, OJ, when you got preferential
49:14treatment from the police.
49:16When that's the story that that they
49:19would come here to this house, they
49:21would say, "OJ, it's okay." Or or well,
49:24name one. I saw this the Harland Fnick's
49:28book goes through two or three of them.
49:30Let me We'll get to Fay Rnik. Yes, we
49:32will. But I know you don't believe what
49:33she says and you think she lied. I don't
49:35believe what she said. I don't It ain't
49:36a matter of believing what she said.
49:37Marsha Clark, they sent people out to
49:39try to confirm her stories. You know
49:40what they found out? She lied. I can
49:42show you time and again in her book she
49:44lied. I don't want to go into fay just
49:46yet cuz I want to take some time with
49:47Fay Rusnik. Uh um you talk about
49:52Chicago. I hear, "Oh, how could you
49:53break your hand when you throw a glass
49:55down?" I didn't break my hand uh
49:58throwing the glass down. The glass
49:59broke. I was going back and forth to the
50:01phone trying to get a flight out of
50:03there. At one point when I was trying to
50:05clean the glass up and push it into the
50:06sink. I had a face tile and some toilet
50:09paper and stuff. That's when I cut my
50:12finger. Now, enough people saw me going
50:15to Chicago. I signed autographs at the
50:17airport. I signed autographs on the
50:20airplane. When I arrived in uh Chicago,
50:24three people were standing there, a
50:25security guard, Mhm. the the people that
50:28work at the hotel. I sign autographs at
50:30the desks, you know. Uh I didn't have
50:33bandages. I wasn't bandaged up. I wasn't
50:36trying to hide my hands, you know. Um if
50:40you if you were innocent, why why did
50:42you write that suicide letter? Why did
50:44you run? I didn't run. That's a total
50:47misconception. If I want to run and I
50:50felt guilty, I would have had plenty of
50:52time during the week to to get upwards
50:54of $50,000 and been long gone. So, you
50:58had 10 grand with you? Uh, I didn't
51:00really have 10 grand. I may have had
51:02with me in the car, I had nothing
51:05because that morning when I was told
51:07that I was going
51:09to be arrested and uh go in. I I looked
51:13and took whatever cash and a couple of
51:15checks that I had and gave it to AC. Did
51:16you know that your attorneys had made a
51:18deal that you could surrender and not be
51:20arrested? Yeah. Yeah. So, you knew that
51:23deal had been made? Yeah. And that was
51:25all immaterial to me that morning. Uh
51:27but I had given AC
51:29uh some money. I told him to give Paula
51:31some money to take her flight. And
51:33because I didn't feel that Arnell or
51:36Jason would want to work. Mhm. Uh you
51:39know, obviously the father was being
51:41arrested for murder. Uh but you knew you
51:44didn't do it. So this wasn't about not
51:46doing it, man. It's this wasn't about
51:48that. I had spent a week I had spent a
51:52week trying to deal with the murder of
51:55probably my favorite person ever on this
51:57earth next to my mom Nicole. I had spent
52:00a night with my kids. My son wanted to
52:03play video games. My daughter wanted me
52:05to read her stories.
52:07And I mean they didn't
52:10cry. They were happy. Uh my daughter
52:13only had said to me that she didn't want
52:15to go to the wake the next day.
52:18Um uh I mean and it was like they didn't
52:21even know Nicole was a super mom. I mean
52:24she you know you know no one could ever
52:26say I didn't say always. She was a great
52:28mom. I never had an argument about
52:30decisions she made with the kids
52:32whatever money she didn't have to
52:33account because I knew most of it would
52:35be spent on the kids. So you weren't
52:37running but what what was it all about?
52:39And and um why get in a in a truck and
52:42head off somewhere? Where were you and
52:44AC going to go? We went to the cemetery.
52:46I wanted to see a grave. I had been that
52:50weak and I know
52:53it's maybe kind of
52:55selfish. I was attacked all week as my
52:59mother told me later on. They weren't
53:00attacking me. They were attacking this
53:02image they had of me. But I couldn't
53:04decipher that at the time. I was on
53:06medication of some sort that I didn't
53:08know that I've since found uh has a
53:12tendency when you first started may make
53:14you a little more depressed. I was
53:15totally depressed. Did you have a gun
53:17with you? Uh, yes. I had a gun with me.
53:18I had the gun with me when I left here
53:20earlier that week. When I went down
53:22there, my thoughts were I just wanted it
53:25to stop. I wanted what I was feeling to
53:27stop. I did. I had a a
53:32very sketchy memory of of where Nicole
53:36was buried because I was so close when
53:39we were there. And I was more concerned
53:41about my kids and I I can recall cameras
53:45on a wall, but I didn't I never saw her
53:48grave. I never saw it. And I that's what
53:49I wanted. I wanted to go to her grave.
53:51And whatever I would have done there, I
53:52can tell you I was at peace when I was
53:54driving down there. I was at total
53:56peace. What I had been feeling all week
53:58to me was behind me. And I I just
54:01honestly wanted to be with Nicole. When
54:02you went down, did you intend to commit
54:04suicide? I didn't know what I wanted to
54:06do. When you went down, did you intend
54:08to commit suicide? I didn't know what I
54:10wanted to do. What it is? I wanted it to
54:12stop. I know that. Why? Why did you
54:15change your mind and not do it? Not take
54:16your life. Well, when we got there, AC
54:20said right away, uh, we can't go in.
54:22There's a police car blocking the
54:24entrance.
54:27And I said, 'Well, isn't there another
54:28way to get in? And he drove around to
54:30some houses where there was a wall that
54:33he said, and looking between the houses,
54:35he said, "Well, it it's right there."
54:37Yeah. And I think we saw people walking
54:39around. So I said, "Well, just go park
54:42somewhere." And he went to a orange
54:45grove and parked in orange grove,
54:48strangely enough. And
54:50uh um I know we were there for a while
54:54and I think we turned on the radio then
54:56and became aware what was aware that you
54:59were a fugitive. Yeah. Yeah. LAPD was
55:02calling you a fugitive at that point.
55:03Look, I can give a at that time
55:04what LAPD thought. That's how I felt. I
55:07know. But uh um I wasn't concerned about
55:11LAPD, you know. I was concerned with it
55:15with stopping how I was feeling. Mhm.
55:18And I asked AC, uh, well, let's just
55:20wait a while and maybe they'll leave.
55:23And at some point he got out of the car
55:25and I laid down in the back of the car
55:26and um, I did have the gun out. And uh,
55:30at some point he came back, saw me, and
55:33said, "Juice, I'm taking you home." And
55:36he just started talking to me, and I
55:37said, "Yeah, take me to my mom." And And
55:39how close did you come to pull that
55:41trigger? I don't know. I don't You don't
55:43know. I can't I can't I can't say. I
55:45can't say. I uh a desperate moment for
55:47you though, right?
55:49Personally, I didn't feel desperate at
55:51the I actually I felt calm. I truly felt
55:55I felt that the pain that I was feeling
55:56at the time would stop.
56:02That's when really the the whole thing
56:04started for you. Yeah. AC started back
56:06up the freeway. He um made some phone
56:10calls
56:11saying that we were heading home and and
56:14after that I recall helicopters
56:16helicopters and press and well the press
56:18I mean since that time that I saw this
56:20one guy uh to Geneva on TV and this is
56:24what I've been fighting I guess since
56:26then uh
56:28because they don't have facts and and
56:32what has been totally disconcerting is
56:35then they go and make
56:38what they want to make up to to I
56:43guess you know you know I don't know
56:45what there will always be misinformation
56:47in a case this big OJ you have to
56:48realize misinformation this is lying
56:50this Geneva sat on TV on a Larry King
56:53show and lied and said that when they
56:55found when they discovered him why did
56:57he go to the graveyard if he was two or
56:59three exits past the cemetery when they
57:02saw him nobody I've read everything in
57:04this case nobody's ever said that this
57:06guy made that up on the spot. We were
57:08actually roughly probably 10 miles
57:11coming back to LA from the cemetery
57:14heading north on the 405. I guess he
57:16would say he was trying to make it to
57:17Canada now uh on the 405 coming home at
57:21that time.
57:23Why didn't AC stop and pull over? AC is
57:26a friend. I wanted to go to my mom and
57:28AC was going to get me to my mom.
57:32Eventually you came here. Mhm.
57:35Well, my mom was here. Oh, you assumed
57:38that. That's why you came back here.
57:40Yeah.
57:41It was a bizarre moment for most people
57:44in the country who saw it in the world
57:45who saw it. Okay. Yeah. Well, you know,
57:47it's interesting for me.
57:49Um, you know, I I I consider it almost
57:52insignificant in terms of of this whole
57:55uh experience
57:58in the trial itself.
57:59Now um DNA evidence has been used in
58:03thousands of cases around the world uh
58:06successfully. Suddenly in this case it
58:08came under scrutiny. Well obviously
58:10there are other cases where where
58:12they've uh they've looked at DNA
58:14evidence and questioned it. But in this
58:17case it seemed that every time the
58:19prosecution came up with some DNA match
58:21with incredible odds that said that it's
58:23got to be OJ Simpson. Well let's get
58:25totally real here. They came up with
58:27matches and results before there were
58:29tests done. They knew the results in my
58:32opinion. Tracy Savage had a report and
58:34we all know. I mean, let's, you know, if
58:35we going to we going to hold everybody
58:37accountable, let's hold them
58:38accountable, too. Someone gave her
58:40results of of tests right on the button
58:43even before the test was supposedly sent
58:45out to be tested. You know, I mean, you
58:48know, why why do why do people want to
58:50be want to be blind to this? Why do they
58:52want to be blind to that? The if you
58:56look in this case, you look at our
58:57witnesses, how many of our witnesses did
58:59a 180 on their testimony.
59:01When you look at the witnesses who took
59:03a complete back face on a
59:06cross-examination, on redirect by the
59:08prosecution, they're all they're all
59:10prosecution witnesses trying to explain
59:14things. DNA is only as good as the
59:16people who are processing it. There's
59:20that we have a human element there. It's
59:22only as good as people process it. I I'm
59:24interested in DNA and I believe in DNA.
59:26You know, I read of all Patricia
59:28Cromwell's books and stuff. I knew all
59:30about DNA before this case began. Uh
59:32Barry Sheek and Peter Newfeld. I'm very
59:34interested in what they do. I spent a
59:37lot of time with Bob Blazer. I find it
59:39very interesting that DNA when there's
59:41body fluids and rape cases and stuff.
59:43You know how many people they get out of
59:44jail? Possibly when DNA come up, maybe a
59:46third of the people with rapes and
59:48stuff, that means a third. How many
59:50people are in jail? Innocent people are
59:52in jail. that the prosecution had these
59:54slam dunk cases. They put innocent
59:57people in jail. And fortunately, the
59:59good side of DNA when it comes to rapes
1:00:01and and situations like that, they prove
1:00:03that these people didn't do it. And that
1:00:05same prosecutor, probably Gilgar City
1:00:07has done his share of them. Maybe
1:00:08Marshia did it their share, was just as
1:00:11convinced that these people were
1:00:12innocent. Let me guilty. Guilty. Let me
1:00:16just ask you this question as a as a
1:00:18person would ask you sitting across. I
1:00:19mean, I I don't have this is not a
1:00:21prepared question or anything, but it
1:00:24seems to me that what you're saying is
1:00:26that everybody's out to get you. The
1:00:27police are out to get you. The
1:00:29prosecutor's out to they'll they'll
1:00:30trump up evidence. They'll sneak it
1:00:32here. They'll do it here. And all of a
1:00:33sudden, they come up with OJ's guilty.
1:00:35Well, how much how I disagree with that.
1:00:38I disagree with that. I dis I disagree
1:00:40with that. That's an impression I'm
1:00:42getting. It doesn't take many people. I
1:00:43I may not doubt that. Maybe. Well, I I
1:00:47question at one point I thought in early
1:00:49in the trial when I was uh somewhat uh
1:00:53had some admirations for Marsha's uh uh
1:00:58passion. Mhm. Uh I thought maybe she was
1:01:00convinced that I had done this crime. as
1:01:04the case went on and I saw her
1:01:05misrepresent evidence and since I've
1:01:08been out of jail and I hear what various
1:01:10witnesses had told me how she tried to
1:01:13intimidate them and consequently not use
1:01:16them when they didn't like what they had
1:01:18to say like like Cora Fishman Nicole's
1:01:21best friend then I realized that uh she
1:01:24obviously had her doubts because if she
1:01:26had a mountain of evidence that she
1:01:27thought was solid evidence she wouldn't
1:01:29have tried to misrepresent so much of
1:01:31the evidence and also try to uh
1:01:35uh uh impact uh some witnesses. So, you
1:01:40think she knew you were innocent but
1:01:41couldn't turn back? I think at one one
1:01:44point of the case that she she felt that
1:01:46I saw a statement uh that she said there
1:01:49wasn't enough evidence and then the next
1:01:51day the not her but the DA's office uh
1:01:54since the case uh came and said she
1:01:56wasn't talking about my case which is
1:01:58kind of hard to believe. Uh, but I know
1:02:01this, if you got the goods, you don't
1:02:03have to resort to some of the things
1:02:04that they resorted to. Okay? And we can
1:02:07talk about all of those things. Those
1:02:09are things that I can't wait hopefully
1:02:11to have enough time to to go into.
1:02:13That's the problem here. We have a
1:02:15certain amount of time. Time is always
1:02:16finite. We can talk for days about all
1:02:19this. I found it curious that someone
1:02:21like Mark Ferman,
1:02:23uh, at one point, oh, this was an honest
1:02:25cop. How can they say? Even Vaner of all
1:02:28people saying, "Oh, this is a fine cop.
1:02:30How can you say these things about this
1:02:31cop?" Uh, I love Lang cuz all the time
1:02:35Lang said, "I didn't know him. This is
1:02:36the only time I worked for him." And
1:02:37Lang is a police officer that
1:02:39um I hate to use the phrase the best of
1:02:42a bad lot, but you know, I thought that
1:02:44there was a certain amount of integrity
1:02:45to him. Um Mark Ferman didn't even know
1:02:49whether you were home or not. Yes, he
1:02:51did. Why would he? If he'd have found
1:02:53the glove before he knew if I was home
1:02:54or not, you would you would have an
1:02:56argument. But he didn't find that glove
1:02:58until he knew when I left, what time I
1:03:01left. Even though he, Phillips, Vanetta,
1:03:04Lang all testified that they didn't hear
1:03:06Ko. They climbed my wall. They're
1:03:09looking for OJ Simpson. They claim that
1:03:11there that he might be bleeding, that
1:03:13somebody else might be bleeding, that
1:03:15there might be a killer on this case.
1:03:17They don't know what to expect. They
1:03:18claim that. That's why they came over
1:03:20the wall. Yet the first person they
1:03:22found on the property, none of them
1:03:23asked where OJ was. And if they asked,
1:03:26nobody listened to where OJ was and OJ
1:03:29might be. And they want to get in this
1:03:32house. They they admitted that they
1:03:33would have knocked down the front door
1:03:34if they hadn't found these people. Yet
1:03:36they let my daughter walk in first.
1:03:39They're so concerned. Why did they want
1:03:40to get in this house so badly, though?
1:03:42Why were they setting you up? Is that
1:03:44the deal? Were you as will you ask that
1:03:46question? Would you ask the press to
1:03:48answer that that ask that question? Will
1:03:50you ask them if they were so concerned
1:03:52about OJ Simpson and looking for OJ
1:03:54Simpson and there may be a crime here.
1:03:56Why? Why did they not ask Kada where's
1:03:59OJ? They're at OJ's house. Here's a guy
1:04:02they don't know. They claim nobody asked
1:04:05where OJ was. They claimed that Mark
1:04:08Ferman later on said he talked to OJ
1:04:11then he went off for 20 minutes. You
1:04:13we'll walk back there. It takes you two,
1:04:15three minutes to walk back there, look
1:04:17around as much as you want, and come
1:04:18back. Five minutes to do that. For 20
1:04:20minutes, he's he's gone. He doesn't say,
1:04:22"Come with me." Oh, we got big concerns
1:04:25here. Come with me. Going back there.
1:04:27They weren't looking for a dying person
1:04:30or a possible uh criminal. He wasn't
1:04:33looking, but he didn't even draw his
1:04:34gun. I've heard it said Mark Ferman is a
1:04:36racist, but he didn't plant the
1:04:38evidence. That's what people say. They
1:04:40they believe they believe he's a racist.
1:04:42They believe he's a bad person, a bad
1:04:44cop, if you will, but they don't believe
1:04:47he put that glove there. Why? Because
1:04:49they've been following the press. Why?
1:04:50There's a whole lot of people that think
1:04:51he did. I for one at the for a long
1:04:55time, my lawyers would tell you I wasn't
1:04:56buying into that. Okay? I wasn't buying
1:04:59into Mark Ferman planted the glove. But
1:05:01at one point, I looked at his when I saw
1:05:02him on the stand and I listened to him
1:05:04and I saw I started seeing all these
1:05:07little inconsistencies in their
1:05:09testimony. I am totally 100
1:05:11convent% convinced that he did. Race
1:05:15became a big Is that Is that a
1:05:16coincidence? You talk about
1:05:17coincidences. Is that a coincidence that
1:05:19this man has talked about in the past
1:05:21planning evidence? I heard one thing on
1:05:22this tape that the jury didn't hear. He
1:05:24said, "I would never stand around.
1:05:25You're coming around there standing
1:05:26around waiting for somebody to come and
1:05:28tell him what to do. I'm not that kind
1:05:30of police officer. I'm a doer." Yet he
1:05:32wants us to believe that he sat around
1:05:34for two and a half hours, did nothing,
1:05:36never talked about OJ Simpson and some
1:05:38prior incident that he was aware of. He
1:05:41expected us to believe that. We've heard
1:05:42him on the tape saying this is what he
1:05:44doesn't do. This is what he despises in
1:05:47police officers. Yet he wants us to
1:05:49believe for two and a half hours minimum
1:05:51he sat around and did absolutely
1:05:53nothing. And why does he want to get you
1:05:55so bad, OJ? Why would he want to get any
1:05:57black man or Mexican-American or
1:06:00minority group? You have to ask Mark
1:06:01Ferman. I I think he tried to I don't
1:06:05know if he ever tried to explain it in
1:06:06his tapes. You know, I keep hearing
1:06:08these pundits on TV say, "Well, he was
1:06:10talking to a
1:06:11um uh a screenwriter." They forget there
1:06:15were live witnesses that walked into
1:06:17that courtroom. Uh there was a Kathleen
1:06:19Bill and Andrea Terry, people that the
1:06:21prosecution, Marshia Clark, was prepared
1:06:24to barbecue knowing that this that they
1:06:28were telling the truth. She had heard
1:06:30from other people in the DA's office
1:06:32about Mark Fer and she knew full well
1:06:34yet every chance she had to down
1:06:36Kathleen Bell to imply that this woman
1:06:38was a scorned woman and wait till we get
1:06:41I can't tell you how many times you
1:06:42heard her guard wait till we get to
1:06:44these women. Fortunately for these women
1:06:46I mean where's Tammy Bruce? They were
1:06:48going to vilify these two women before
1:06:50those tapes came out. They were
1:06:52vilifying them before these tapes came
1:06:54out knowing knowing that these women
1:06:57were telling the truth.
1:07:00You have said that all your life you
1:07:03tried to ignore race. Yes. And I still
1:07:06when I say ignore, I try to ignore
1:07:08prejudicism. I never tried to ignore
1:07:10race. I was born black. I was raised in
1:07:13the uh in the I don't even call it a
1:07:15ghetto in the projects. I loved where I
1:07:17was raised. Often I would say to Nicole,
1:07:19I wish my kids could have been raised
1:07:21the way I was raised. Uh because it was
1:07:24family, it was friends, it was
1:07:26community, we were together. Uh all my
1:07:29life, uh I hear people talk to me about
1:07:31race. Oh, he's not black enough or he
1:07:33just became black. You look at where
1:07:35I've given money. My life, it's always
1:07:37been to the community. It's always been
1:07:38to the links, a black female national
1:07:41society, uh to my neighborhood where I
1:07:43grew up. Now, I've been involved in
1:07:45raising money for many charities, but
1:07:46when it comes out of my pocket, it
1:07:49normally goes to minority groups. Isn't
1:07:50it ironic that it was probably,
1:07:53depending on which legal expert you
1:07:55listen to, it was probably the race card
1:07:58that got you acquitted. It was probably
1:08:00the race card that got you acquitted.
1:08:03You know, I hear this race card. Let's
1:08:05let's let's analyze this so-called race
1:08:07card. The
1:08:08deck this is deck the deck of cards
1:08:11cards was was introduced by the media
1:08:15and the the so-called pundits
1:08:17immediately the minute they convene a
1:08:21grand jury I saw hireina I saw so many
1:08:24of the pundits and writers uh in this
1:08:26area write what that impact would be uh
1:08:31that the case would be downtown instead
1:08:33of in Santa Monica and it was all under
1:08:36racial
1:08:37uh lines. I then saw the first hand
1:08:40dealt from that deck. Uh if you don't
1:08:42want to count Mark Ferman,
1:08:46it was Mark Ferman, according to you, it
1:08:48was Mark Ferman who played the first
1:08:50race card because he planted the glove
1:08:52because you're a black man. Well, you
1:08:54know, you you're wording it a little
1:08:55differently than I had worded it. And I
1:08:57don't mean to do that, but I'm saying
1:08:59you're talking to me about the race
1:09:00card. This race card is not a
1:09:01conversation that I heard Mark Ferman
1:09:04speak of. something I've heard the media
1:09:05speak of and I'm saying that the media
1:09:07has played it more than anybody. It was
1:09:09the media that was writing how many
1:09:10blacks were on the jury. These are
1:09:11Americans. What difference should it
1:09:13make? These are Americans. When this
1:09:15jury was impanled, the first thing, the
1:09:17thing that jumped out at you more than
1:09:19gender was race and the media talked
1:09:21about it. They brought Mark Ferman into
1:09:23this case. And I don't think anybody uh
1:09:26you listen to Marshia Clark's closing
1:09:28arguments. I don't think there's anybody
1:09:30including the
1:09:31prosecution that doesn't think that this
1:09:33man is a racist. The prosecution knows
1:09:36it. Listen to Marsha's words and closing
1:09:38arguments. Yet they still uh when you
1:09:41put a witness on the stand, my lawyers
1:09:43told me you're vouching for that
1:09:45witness. We had many witnesses that we
1:09:47wanted to put on that uh stand because
1:09:49they had what we thought positive
1:09:51information from me, but we couldn't
1:09:53vouch for him. 100%. We could not vouch
1:09:56for him. We didn't put him on the stand.
1:09:57They still put this man on the stand.
1:09:59You and your lawyers though put that
1:10:01jury together. You were as much part of
1:10:03it and I'm sure race came into play,
1:10:05didn't it? Oh, obviously. I think uh
1:10:08both sides, if you look at the VA when
1:10:10they were dropping people, the
1:10:12prosecution started first. I think
1:10:14probably of their first eight or nine
1:10:16people, seven or eight of them were
1:10:17black. Yeah. You know, and then
1:10:19obviously we sort of caught up at one
1:10:22point. What did What kind of a jury did
1:10:24you want? Did you want a a black jury? A
1:10:26fair jury. I wanted a fair jury. I would
1:10:28have said at the time though I was a
1:10:30little more
1:10:33uh my eyes may have been open a little
1:10:35more to how much race uh was impacting
1:10:41um the the the perception of this case.
1:10:44Uh I may not have said that right. What
1:10:47I mean to say is in August, long before
1:10:52there were any evidence presented in
1:10:54this case, when you look at the hearing,
1:10:56the the 911 uh calls, the buying a knife
1:10:59at a knife store and all that, none of
1:11:00that came into really came into the
1:11:02case, you know. But still, 70 to 80% of
1:11:06white America had already convicted me.
1:11:09I find that so ironic, so hypocritical
1:11:11for them. That same group of people
1:11:13criticizing this jury, they say they
1:11:15only took two or three hours to come to
1:11:17a verdict. That's not enough time. Yet,
1:11:19before there was a jury, before any
1:11:21evidence was presented in court, 80% of
1:11:24from the polls, I don't always bleed the
1:11:26polls, but 80% of white America based on
1:11:29the polls already had me guilty. And how
1:11:32how can they say, you know, this jury
1:11:34listened to all the evidence. They
1:11:36didn't hear spin every night. and they
1:11:39didn't sit there and see what Haraldo or
1:11:42somebody wanted you to hear about the
1:11:43trial. You know, the jury sat there and
1:11:46heard every bit of evidence. And you
1:11:47know, I'm from the sports world. The
1:11:50world I'm from and and I give speeches
1:11:52and I've given speeches for 30 years.
1:11:54Everyone who's ever heard me speak, many
1:11:56of them I always say, accept
1:11:58responsibility for yourself. It's it has
1:12:01some religious overtones because those
1:12:02words came to me in a chapel service in
1:12:04Boston once. I tell people, don't blame
1:12:07your teacher if you're not getting good
1:12:09grades. Don't blame your coach if you're
1:12:11not uh playing or playing up to what you
1:12:13think your ability is. Yet, and I, you
1:12:16know, you can call it a simple analogy
1:12:17here. Yet, I watched the prosecution and
1:12:20people out there who didn't watch this
1:12:22trial, I want to blame the jury, an
1:12:24American jury of 12 of their of
1:12:26Americans. 12 people. We went through
1:12:28the most extensive viber I think in the
1:12:31history of uh of of trials. We came up
1:12:34with 12 people who sat through that uh
1:12:37nine months of what had to be agony.
1:12:40Sure. Yet they couldn't prove a case.
1:12:43They were wrong to begin with. I was
1:12:45innocent to begin with. They were wrong.
1:12:47It came out. The people heard the
1:12:48evidence, came to that conclusion at
1:12:51least not guilty. Is this your heart
1:12:53talking that they came to not guilty
1:12:55because of the evidence or because of
1:12:57race? Because there are evidence. I'm
1:12:59not going to buy into this. People who
1:13:01believe that they did it because They
1:13:03were they were fighting for a brother.
1:13:05Fighting for a brother. You know, you
1:13:07tell those people, you go out to
1:13:08whatever neighborhood you want to get
1:13:10and you show me a person that buy that
1:13:12and you take them downstairs in every
1:13:14urban community in this country,
1:13:16Washington DC, Chicago, Atlanta, New
1:13:18York City, you'll see in most cases,
1:13:20most cases the majority, certainly more
1:13:23than that, what is indicative in our
1:13:24population, the majority of jurors are
1:13:27black. And now go to jail and see how
1:13:29many blacks are on on death row. The
1:13:31majority of people on death row are
1:13:32probably black or Hispanic. See, that's
1:13:34total BS. You know, everybody's looking
1:13:37for excuse not to face the facts. They
1:13:39want to blame the jury. They want to
1:13:41bring black people that were on that
1:13:43jury. Just go into the prisons a day and
1:13:45see how many blacks are in prison. And
1:13:47you go into any courtroom in this
1:13:48country in urban communities. You look
1:13:50at the most serious crimes. You look at
1:13:51the jury, you see black people putting
1:13:53black people in jail
1:13:55daily. I'm sorry. I'm getting a little
1:13:58pissed. That's okay.
1:14:01You're speaking your mind, I assume.
1:14:03Yeah. Well, you know, I it's I I've
1:14:05never accepted excuses in my day. Every
1:14:08person you talk about these incidents in
1:14:10my life, the 911 call, whatever. No one,
1:14:14no the police officer ever walked up to
1:14:16me, didn't say, "Hey, he made no
1:14:18excuses." He accepted the
1:14:20responsibility. I've done that my entire
1:14:22life. And I'm watching people here
1:14:24trying to judge me, who won't take the
1:14:25responsibility, who won't listen to
1:14:27facts, who who get these skewered
1:14:29opinions that they get on TV, who made
1:14:32up their mind before any evidence was in
1:14:34this case, and then they're going to
1:14:35criticize people. I hear Goldman, who I
1:14:38have a lot of compassion for, cuz I know
1:14:40how he feels. I lost more than he lost.
1:14:43I lost someone I loved just as much as
1:14:44he loved, and I lost my life for the
1:14:47most part. I'm a little stronger than
1:14:49most people think. I'm not sitting in
1:14:50this house trying to commit suicide,
1:14:52which we'll get to. I'm not sitting
1:14:54around crying the blues uh h about
1:14:56what's been going on. Hey, I'm trying to
1:14:58stand tall and I'm going to fight what I
1:15:00have to fight. I see he go on TV. I
1:15:02don't know what the man's talking about.
1:15:03He wants 10 two. Hey, I got to tell you,
1:15:05I felt 10 two uh even before this trial
1:15:08happened, I felt that to get 12 people
1:15:11to go one way would be difficult. That
1:15:13they should go to 102 or 9. 102. You're
1:15:15talking about conviction 102 jury. I I I
1:15:18was a believer in that. I see him go on
1:15:20TV. I don't know what he's talking
1:15:21about. In my case, if it was 10 two, I
1:15:23would have been acquitted in 20 minutes
1:15:25instead of three hours. One of the
1:15:27things he wants, he says, is justice.
1:15:28And he wanted you to take the stand and
1:15:30said that you're a coward for not taking
1:15:31the witness. Well, he couldn't buy
1:15:33justice. I didn't need to take the
1:15:34witness stand. I have a constitutional
1:15:36right. I wanted to take the witness
1:15:38stand. I would love to sit down with
1:15:39Marshia Clark. I would love to sit down
1:15:41with Goldman. I would rather Goldman and
1:15:42Marshia Clark to be sitting right here u
1:15:45uh interviewing me, but they're too busy
1:15:46making money. You know, they don't want
1:15:48to see OJ try to replenish what he lost.
1:15:50I I'm the only person that lost anything
1:15:52financially. Me and the taxpayers of
1:15:54this state. I don't see anybody trying
1:15:56to pay the taxpayers or me back. You
1:15:58know, that's all I want to do. I would
1:16:00have loved for Marshia Clark tomorrow if
1:16:02Marshia Clark would sit down and and
1:16:04talk to me. She can film it as long as I
1:16:07can market it. She can film it and ask
1:16:09me whatever she wants to ask me and I'll
1:16:10answer every question. What? Frank Gman,
1:16:13let him sit down. He can ask me whatever
1:16:15he wants to ask me. But I'm the only
1:16:17person at law. I'm not out there at this
1:16:19point asking the public to send me
1:16:21money. I'm not doing that. Why should
1:16:23you be able to make money off the
1:16:26tragedy? I'm not making money off of
1:16:28tragedy. What tragedy am I making money
1:16:29off? That's what people will say, OJ.
1:16:31They'll say you're making money off of
1:16:32this now. Oh, the same people who had me
1:16:34uh convicted. The same people who had me
1:16:37guilty in August of 94. What do they say
1:16:40about Marshia Clark? What do they say
1:16:41about Denise Brown? What do they talk
1:16:43about Fay Resnik? They'll find one thing
1:16:44that they go to and say, "I'm not making
1:16:47money for being here tonight." They'll
1:16:48show that on TV. I tell you what, let's
1:16:51take a look at Fay Rusnik and Denise
1:16:52Brown's tax returns for the last 10
1:16:54years and their tax return for this past
1:16:56year. Let's see who's benefiting from
1:16:58this tragedy. Let's take a look at
1:17:00Marshall Clark, who I see has just
1:17:02gotten 42 years of salary. 42 years of
1:17:06salary with a book deal. Plus, she's
1:17:08probably going to equal that and her
1:17:09parents. I don't begrudge her that. I
1:17:11don't begrudge her that, but I begrudge
1:17:13the hypocrites, the hypocrisy that says
1:17:15OJ is making money on this tragedy. No,
1:17:17I'm just trying to replenish what I
1:17:19lost. And you want to hear from me? Hey,
1:17:22you don't have to buy the tape, you
1:17:24know, if you want to hear from me, I'm
1:17:25here to speak. I got two kids, four
1:17:28kids, but two kids that I am the sole uh
1:17:31supporter of, financial supporter of.
1:17:33The Browns have given them love, have
1:17:35maintained what Nicole and I had given
1:17:37those kids. Those were happy kids when
1:17:38they got them. They're happy kids today.
1:17:40I will always be grateful to the Browns
1:17:42for maintaining what Nicole and I had
1:17:44instilled in our kids. But every month I
1:17:46send a check down there for my kids. Yet
1:17:48I got people out here that's saying that
1:17:50as an American I can't go out and make
1:17:52money. I was real willing to do an
1:17:53interview free. Those same people are
1:17:55picketing outside of the the network to
1:17:58keep me from doing it free. This is not
1:17:59about making money. This is about what I
1:18:01consider prejudism. Prejudicism against
1:18:04my rights as an American to earn a
1:18:06living and support my family. I can hear
1:18:09the helicopters overhead. You're a
1:18:10prisoner here. Good time. No, I'm not a
1:18:12prisoner. I am not a prisoner here. I go
1:18:14out. I go out. I go to dinners. I read
1:18:17where the rags once again. I read where
1:18:20Oh, you went to the restaurant, the
1:18:21tabloids, and they they throw these uh
1:18:23napkins. I've never been in a
1:18:25restaurant. The restaurant that they
1:18:26said that I never been in. And every
1:18:28restaurant I've been in since I've been
1:18:30out, the managers have been courteous.
1:18:32They've been encouraging. They asked me
1:18:34to come back. I've had a great meal. Uh,
1:18:37if I walk out here, if I seen a thousand
1:18:39people outside of my house, 995 of those
1:18:42people, white women from from Iowa, from
1:18:45Georgia, from Canada, from South Africa,
1:18:49even have all been encouraging, telling
1:18:51me to keep my head up, you know, get
1:18:53your kids, go on. So, you believe there
1:18:55are people who believe in you? off. I
1:18:57got over two million pieces of mail from
1:18:59people that I've that that have sent
1:19:02mail to my house and my office that
1:19:04totally believe in me and and many
1:19:05people that when I was in Panama City,
1:19:07the people were so so encouraging down
1:19:11there. It was it was just mindboggling.
1:19:13I I'm aware of a of a of a tabloid show
1:19:17giving a lady a sign. We have eight
1:19:18witnesses to this. Gave her a sign, had
1:19:21her drive by, go away, OJ with the sign.
1:19:23And that was the story they got across
1:19:25the country. You know, the day the
1:19:27verdict was read um and and you were set
1:19:30free. There were some people who said it
1:19:32was in very bad taste.
1:19:34Um I don't know if this happened again.
1:19:36This may be tabloid. This may be reports
1:19:39toasting champagne, celebrating victory,
1:19:42celebrating vindication. Knowing that uh
1:19:46at least in your mind, the real killers
1:19:49of Nicole were still out there
1:19:50somewhere. Hey, that's real killers had
1:19:52been out there for a year and four
1:19:53months. This was friends. There was
1:19:56nothing planned. Excuse me. There was
1:19:58absolutely nothing planned. I came home
1:20:00to a relatively empty house. I walked
1:20:03through the front door. I saw my
1:20:04longterm assistant Kathy Rander and Al
1:20:06Cowings uh I think Nicole Pvers who was
1:20:09my jail
1:20:10househaw lawyer uh up the front. I
1:20:13walked into this room and stood almost
1:20:15where we're where we're sitting now. And
1:20:17they pretty much left me alone. uh phone
1:20:20calls were coming that I wasn't taking.
1:20:22A couple of calls I did take from real
1:20:24close friends. I think because of the
1:20:26media outside, people saw I was home and
1:20:28friends began began to come over. Uh
1:20:31some friends uh sent um food here and it
1:20:36was such a spontaneous thing. You saw
1:20:38blooms and flowers coming. The majority
1:20:41of those balloons and flowers were
1:20:43coming from my neighbors. Welcome back
1:20:45to the neighborhood. that's not the
1:20:47report you got from the media. And so it
1:20:50was a total spontaneous thing. And you
1:20:52know what we ended up doing that I they
1:20:54may have written wr written someplace
1:20:56but I really hadn't read it and I didn't
1:20:58read a lot about uh what transpired that
1:21:00week. I was focusing on my kids and
1:21:03adjusting. You know what we did? We
1:21:05stood in the other room packed with
1:21:08people. I probably 50 or 100 people. I
1:21:10don't know. We spoke. We prayed and we
1:21:14sung religious songs. That's not the
1:21:17image the press gave America though, did
1:21:19they? They gave champagne and partying
1:21:22and dancing. No, we sung religious
1:21:25songs. We prayed together as a group.
1:21:28That's what we did in this house that
1:21:29day. Yes. There was a a jubilant
1:21:32feeling. I was home. Yes. And I felt it
1:21:35to an extent. I was still No apologies
1:21:37for that. Absolutely none. None. Do you
1:21:41think I mean I'm looking at Denise Brown
1:21:43and FA Russell going to parties,
1:21:45starting love affairs, going out of
1:21:46love. Why? Why shouldn't they have the
1:21:48right to do that? Why shouldn't they
1:21:50have the right? I see Denise Brown in
1:21:53court to testify for her sister's death
1:21:56slipping a number to Tony the animal
1:21:58somebody, right? I mean, I don't see
1:22:00anybody criticizing that. I don't know.
1:22:04I, you know, picking up a guy at her
1:22:07sister's or ex-brother's trial for the
1:22:11murder of her
1:22:13sister. Picking a guy up under those
1:22:15circumstances. And I'm being criticized
1:22:17cuz friends are here praying with me,
1:22:19singing songs that I'm home, that I've
1:22:22been in my mind and in their mind
1:22:24vindicated.
1:22:26Doesn't Doesn't wash with you. Doesn't
1:22:28wash with me at all. If you didn't do
1:22:31this horrible crime, who
1:22:34did? Who killed Nicole? Who killed Ron
1:22:37Goldman? I wouldn't be sitting here with
1:22:39you now if I knew. I will say this. I
1:22:42have absolutely no doubt. I think if you
1:22:46talk to some people who have been close
1:22:48to Nicole the last four years, they feel
1:22:49the same way that the answer is
1:22:52somewhere in the world of FA Rusnik. No
1:22:56doubt. You talk about coincidences. How
1:22:58much of a coincidence is it that roughly
1:23:0110 days before Nicole's death, I'm on
1:23:03the phone with FA Rustness. She's crying
1:23:05to me, begging me to talk to her
1:23:07boyfriend to marry her, a guy who is
1:23:10great guy. Kristen Reichart. Christian
1:23:12Reichar. Nobody has anything bad to say
1:23:14about Kristen. Impeccable record. Great
1:23:16guy. Christian couldn't do it because
1:23:19she had problems. She moved out of that
1:23:21house, moved in with Nicole for the
1:23:23weekend. I don't know how long she had
1:23:24moved in. Just Nicole. She was a friend.
1:23:26Nicole brought her in. 4 days later,
1:23:29even though Nicole often complained and
1:23:31knew all about this woman's drug
1:23:32problems, Nicole saw fit to call friends
1:23:35together to put this girl away because
1:23:37it was totally to have an intervention.
1:23:40Totally out of control with it. Nicole
1:23:42called her friends together. The next
1:23:44day, they put this woman in a in a in a
1:23:47rehab center. 3 days after that
1:23:54um Sydney Brooke, my daughter,
1:23:58stated that probably the last time she
1:24:01heard her mother, her mother was crying.
1:24:03You know, we know now that that was in
1:24:05all likelihood FA Rusnik, who claims
1:24:08that Nicole was giggling. This woman is
1:24:11in a rehab center. Nicole wouldn't be on
1:24:14the phone with her giggling. And any
1:24:15mother out there that got an 8-year-old
1:24:17daughter, you your daughter know if
1:24:19you're crying or if you're giggling. My
1:24:21daughter Sydney is a sharp girl. She
1:24:23knows if her mother is dying or are
1:24:25giggling or crying rather giggling. And
1:24:27within hours of this, Nicole is dead.
1:24:30Now, what happens after this? This woman
1:24:33claims that she was fearing for her life
1:24:34from AC and Bob Shapiro. For God's sake,
1:24:38she runs away. She runs and goes into
1:24:40hiding and begins to spin her yarn. And
1:24:43hey, we can go through a story. Sure,
1:24:45you're going to hear a lot about this in
1:24:46this civil trial and obviously some
1:24:48other civil trials. You think I had a
1:24:50dream team before. Wait till you see my
1:24:52litigators with the tabloids and people
1:24:54like FA Rusnik. Uh, this woman flat out
1:24:58lied. I'm I'm calling her a liar. Her
1:25:00book, I can show you. It's provable. The
1:25:02prosecution lied. Her best what she
1:25:05claimed to be her best friend is
1:25:07murdered. If she know nothing about it,
1:25:10why does she have to lie? Go to Cora
1:25:13Fishman, Nicole's best friend. Nobody
1:25:16doubts that Nicole spent more time with
1:25:17Cora Fishman than any other person other
1:25:19than her kids and maybe me from time to
1:25:21time in the last four years of her life.
1:25:24Find out if the things that this girl
1:25:27has said about Nicole are true. This
1:25:29girl just lied and lied and lied. And I
1:25:32asked myself why. If you're innocent, if
1:25:34you don't know nothing, why do you run
1:25:35and hide and say your life is in danger?
1:25:38And why do you lie time and time again?
1:25:41And it hurts me because I wasn't
1:25:42speaking to Nicole in the end because of
1:25:44FA Rusnik because FA Rusnik asked me
1:25:47wanted to know why she wasn't invited to
1:25:49an affair that I had invited Christian
1:25:50and Dr. Fishman and his son to and I
1:25:52hadn't invited the girls because they're
1:25:54Nicole's friends and I was going to be
1:25:56with Paula Bobby Fay Rnik Christian was
1:26:00there said I want to go. Hey, we don't
1:26:03play that. We love you OJ. We love
1:26:05Nicole. I want to get to know Paula. I
1:26:08want to get to know Nicole's whoever she
1:26:10ends up with. I invite her. Nicole calls
1:26:12me and screams at me because Fay tells
1:26:15her a total different story. When I ask
1:26:17Fay, what what didn't you tell her? You
1:26:19were in you invited yourself. She said,
1:26:21"Oh, come on, OJ. This is a week before
1:26:23her murder. Come on, OJ. Nicole loves
1:26:25you. You're back with Paula. She loves
1:26:27you." I said, "FA, do me a favor. Call
1:26:29Nicole and tell her you insisted on
1:26:31going to this affair." Now, that's not
1:26:33the story you've been getting from Fay
1:26:34Rusnik, is it? But fortunately for me,
1:26:36there were witnesses to all of this.
1:26:39Again, it's you well, first of all, you
1:26:41don't have any proof that Fay Resnik was
1:26:43Oh, it's like I who what proof that I
1:26:46murdered anybody? I mean, everybody we
1:26:47could you can use the same
1:26:48circumstantial evidence for Fay Resnik.
1:26:51We can look in her past and we find out
1:26:53that anything remotely like this might
1:26:54have happened in uh San Francisco. Did
1:26:56she ever leave the country before
1:26:57because of something that might have
1:26:59happened? I don't know. Why don't we
1:27:01take a look at these investigative uh
1:27:03journalists out there uh these tabloid
1:27:05shows, why don't we go and take a look
1:27:08at it? Why don't we just go and see or
1:27:10the police? Are we in or the police? I
1:27:12ask you a question. Have you seen
1:27:14anywhere? Have you seen written anywhere
1:27:16where Marshia Clark, Phil Van Adder,
1:27:19Phillips, uh Darden, anybody ever asked
1:27:22FA Rusnik who delivered her drugs? We
1:27:24know she was broke. That's everybody
1:27:26knows she was broke. We know it's
1:27:28expensive to do the type of things that
1:27:30she was doing at the time, allegedly.
1:27:32But they had an intervention. Evidently,
1:27:33she admitted it. Nicole took them to her
1:27:36stash. I got a question. Did they ever
1:27:38ask that question? Did anybody deliver
1:27:40you drugs this week? I'm not aware of
1:27:41it. But again, u but this is the most
1:27:44thoroughly investigated case of all
1:27:46time. Yes. This is your contention that
1:27:48she was she and Ron Goldman. Nicole and
1:27:50Ron Goldman were Ron Goldman, but they
1:27:52were killed accidentally in a I don't
1:27:54know. I can't talk about that. I I have
1:27:56absolutely no idea. I know Nicole is a
1:27:59confrontational person. She always has
1:28:01been. She's been confrontational with
1:28:03house help. I noticed that the rags
1:28:05hadn't gone to all the housekeepers and
1:28:07all the nannies who've worked in this
1:28:08house. All of them will give you a
1:28:10totally different story. And many of
1:28:12them have even in Europe who live in
1:28:14Europe now. I've given you a totally
1:28:15different story than what the tabloids
1:28:17have been telling you about my
1:28:19relationship with Nicole and who was
1:28:21aggressive and who was not aggressive uh
1:28:23uh in this household. I don't I I don't
1:28:26know. Oh, I just know if someone came to
1:28:28that house looking for FA doing
1:28:31whatever, Nicole would have been very
1:28:33confrontational, would it? Because that
1:28:35was her nature. Well, I knew that we
1:28:37would never have enough time to talk
1:28:39about everything. Yeah. In in 90 minutes
1:28:41approximately. It's frustrating for me
1:28:43because I try to say everything. Let me
1:28:45do one thing, though, and and this we
1:28:47can talk for hours. We can talk about
1:28:49evidence. People will still have
1:28:51questions. They'll have their own
1:28:52opinions. Let me look
1:28:54directly into the eyes of OJ
1:28:58Simpson, like so many people watching
1:29:01this tape are doing right this minute,
1:29:03and say to you, did you kill Nicole
1:29:06Brown and Ron Goldman? Absolutely not. I
1:29:09couldn't kill anyone. I couldn't do it.
1:29:12You know, one of the things that
1:29:13probably saved my
1:29:15life when I was in that orange grove was
1:29:19that my mother always told me that
1:29:20people who commit suicide can't go to
1:29:22heaven. I expect hopefully I pray that
1:29:26one day I'll see Nicole again. I have no
1:29:28doubt that's where she is. I couldn't
1:29:29kill anybody. No matter what you say, no
1:29:32matter what you say or do though, there
1:29:33are people that are not going to believe
1:29:34you. They'll they'll believe it, you
1:29:36know. And hey, I can't help that. I can
1:29:38just say to them, look at my history.
1:29:40Not the history that a Tammy Bruce is
1:29:42trying to create, but let's look at the
1:29:44facts. People lived in this house. Go to
1:29:46all the people who ever lived with
1:29:48Nicole and I. Go to all of her friends,
1:29:51you know, go to Nicole's words and
1:29:53things like our divorce deposition,
1:29:54these spontaneous utterances that she
1:29:57made at the 911 call where there was
1:30:00absolutely nothing in 93 physical that
1:30:02happened between us. go to all of these
1:30:05people uh and find out see the nature
1:30:08me. I can tell you honestly that other
1:30:10than my 89 thing with Nicole once on a
1:30:14football field with Mel Lungford. Mel,
1:30:16sorry to bring your name up. I had a
1:30:17fight with a guy named Mel Lungford on
1:30:19the football field 3 4 in taller than I
1:30:2250 lbs heavier than I can tell you my
1:30:24adult life I never had a fight with
1:30:26anybody. Everybody got along with me.
1:30:28Everyone who's ever worked in this house
1:30:30would tell you if anything I was a
1:30:31peacemaker in this house. My history.
1:30:34You talk about my history. That is my
1:30:36history. You talk to people who live
1:30:37with me. You talk to people who work
1:30:39with me. You talk to people in my
1:30:40public. That was my history. I didn't
1:30:42get into confrontations. You know, I've
1:30:44had my arguments with Nicole. And Nicole
1:30:47has had her arguments with many people
1:30:48with househel with her mother. But
1:30:51Nicole was a strong woman. And she I can
1:30:55tell you this. I say this without any
1:30:56reservation. I think if you go to any
1:30:58friend of hers, somebody like Tammy
1:31:00Bruce, Nicole would punch her. Nicole
1:31:02would punch her right in her face. She
1:31:04could push your buttons, too, couldn't
1:31:05she, OJ? Nicole. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes, she
1:31:08could. But not Do you know anybody
1:31:09that's been with a woman for for 15, 17
1:31:12years that the woman couldn't push his
1:31:13buttons? But not enough to kill her. Not
1:31:15enough. Not enough really to to hit her
1:31:17or to purposely injure her. Never. Even
1:31:21in ' 89, my pro my goal in ' 89 was just
1:31:24to get her out of my bedroom, not to
1:31:26hurt her. You're the only one who knows
1:31:28really the truth of what? No. No.
1:31:30There's somebody else that knows the
1:31:31truth. Who's that? Cuz the person who
1:31:33killed him. Yeah. You can live with
1:31:36yourself.
1:31:38Yes. I think I've been a good guy. I
1:31:41think I've been a good person. I think
1:31:42my life has shown it. I believe in God.
1:31:44God has been with me. He's made me
1:31:47strong. I hope even today I I kind of
1:31:50there's things I don't like what I said
1:31:52today because
1:31:54I I don't want to go to certain people's
1:31:56levels. And today I think I did.
1:31:59But I've had so much in me, so much
1:32:02stored in me. There's so much more that
1:32:04I want to say. And I kind of apologize
1:32:06if I got a little carried away there.
1:32:08But that's me. That's anybody who's ever
1:32:10played golf with me. Everybody who knows
1:32:12me know that I'm not a guy. I say what's
1:32:15on my mind. Everybody knows where they
1:32:17stand with me. And I like to think I've
1:32:20been supportive of everybody, even
1:32:22people who have been critical of me. Uh,
1:32:26virtually every one of them. I could
1:32:27tell you a time and they would agree
1:32:29that they came to me for help when they
1:32:31were in women friends of Nicole's who I
1:32:34think probably feel that I'm guilty that
1:32:36when they were at places in their lives
1:32:39where when even Nicole wouldn't speak to
1:32:41them you ask Chris Jenner uh they came
1:32:44to me and I was there for them.
1:32:48You didn't kill her. No, I did not kill
1:32:51anybody and I could not and would not.
1:32:56Thank you for your time. Thank you.
1:32:58Thank you for your
1:33:08time. Now, this is the uh Rockingham
1:33:11gate to my home. It's west of the house.
1:33:14Uh we actually use it as an exit. And it
1:33:16was on this street, Rockingham, that
1:33:18Alan Park drove uh up that night of the
1:33:2012th. And uh Alan Park was pretty
1:33:22consistent in his testimony and as well
1:33:25as uh what he told the police in the
1:33:27first interview that he did uh
1:33:28throughout the trial. And Marcia Clark
1:33:31was almost as consistent with her
1:33:33misrepresentation of this uh person's um
1:33:36um uh testimony. And it seems strange to
1:33:39me that the that the press or many of
1:33:41the pundits around the country chose to
1:33:43go with Marsha's misrepresentations
1:33:46instead of Allen Park's actual
1:33:48testimony. One thing Allan said was when
1:33:50he drove up this street, he didn't
1:33:52notice any cars on Rockingham and he did
1:33:54not notice a Bronco. He didn't notice it
1:33:57when he drove up. He didn't notice it at
1:33:59one point when he drove down the middle
1:34:01of the street. Curiously, not along the
1:34:03curb when he wanted to look through this
1:34:05gate to see if he can see anyone in my
1:34:07house. I submit that uh he rode came
1:34:10back in the middle of the street because
1:34:11the Bronco would have blocked him riding
1:34:12along the curb. But he also more
1:34:14importantly stated that he didn't notice
1:34:17this Bronco when he drove out of the
1:34:19Rockingham gate at a time when I think
1:34:21everybody agreed that the Bronco was
1:34:24there. I find very interesting that uh
1:34:26if this Bronco was parked a skew as the
1:34:30police uh time and time again stated.
1:34:32Now you look at this parking job. I mean
1:34:34you would you you'd have to be I mean
1:34:36with the parking police to say that this
1:34:38is a bad parking job. This is a truck
1:34:40and I submit it'd be pretty difficult to
1:34:41drive up and uh park a car much better
1:34:44than this parking job. Couple of other
1:34:47points about this Bronco is that uh uh a
1:34:50lot of talk about the mixed blood stains
1:34:52that were were on the console. You
1:34:54realize there was only 7/10 of one drop
1:34:57of blood on that console. I can
1:34:59literally sneeze in my hand, rub it
1:35:01around that console, and you would
1:35:02probably have more DNA. another uh
1:35:06incident that uh came about because of
1:35:08the Bronco and I found it very uh
1:35:11indicative of everything that happened
1:35:12in this case and how members of the
1:35:15media and pundits around this country
1:35:17were so quick to jump on any negative,
1:35:20anything that may have made me look uh
1:35:22more guilty uh was this body bag, this
1:35:26plastic bag and this shovel that they
1:35:28found uh in the back of my Bronco. Now,
1:35:31they investigated this case for 7
1:35:33months, seven or eight months uh before
1:35:35we got to trial. They said it was an
1:35:37exhaustive investigation. Yet, that
1:35:41Friday, they showed the jury, they
1:35:43spring in front of the jury and the
1:35:45nation this plastic bag, which they
1:35:47tried to imply uh could have been used
1:35:49as a body bag and this shovel that was
1:35:51in the back of my car. And of course,
1:35:53the media that weekend just went wild
1:35:55with it. And I would assume most of the
1:35:57people around the country who thought I
1:35:58was guilty say, "See, what did I tell
1:36:00you?" Well, over the weekend, they
1:36:01discovered that this plastic bag uh came
1:36:04with every Bronco. It was standard
1:36:06equipment. It came uh had something to
1:36:08do with the spare tire. And of course,
1:36:10the shovel was not a shovel that you
1:36:12would use to dig holes. It was a mucking
1:36:15shovel that you would use to uh pick up
1:36:17stuff. In my case, uh we call it a
1:36:19pooper scooper. And I actually had it in
1:36:21the back of my car because I was going
1:36:23over to Nicole's house. She was having
1:36:24some trouble with the neighbor to the
1:36:26north of her because the dogs were, you
1:36:28know, doing their dew around there and
1:36:30uh this disgruntled ex-husband was going
1:36:33over there picking up uh the dog do for
1:36:35her. Uh let's go back in and some other
1:36:38interesting things that I can point out
1:36:39to you out here. Uh some of it has to do
1:36:41with this
1:36:43driveway. Now before I show you some
1:36:46blood drops that were found u on the
1:36:48property, let's talk a little about uh
1:36:51some of the evidence and things that
1:36:53came out in court. one that you cannot
1:36:55age blood drops. You can't really tell
1:36:57when they were deposited. For instance,
1:36:59uh two blood drops were found here side
1:37:01by side and you really couldn't tell um
1:37:04when if they were deposited at the same
1:37:06time or not. Uh one thing is curious to
1:37:08me that these were side by side which
1:37:11would indicate someone was bleeding from
1:37:13two sides of their body. I guess uh as
1:37:16we go down the driveway we have cards
1:37:19where they found various blood drops.
1:37:25Here's one here. And then there's other
1:37:27cards going towards the front of the
1:37:30house. One thing that really jumps out
1:37:33at you is that none of these blood drops
1:37:36going this direction to the side of the
1:37:38garage where Mark Ferman allegedly found
1:37:41uh the bloody glove. Some other points I
1:37:44should make about the blood. All the
1:37:45blood. The blood drops going along the
1:37:47side of Nicole's house towards her
1:37:49alley. uh the blood drops that are on
1:37:51this uh driveway um going in various
1:37:54directions uh to or from my front door
1:37:57um the blood splattered bronco, my blood
1:38:01splattered home. All of this blood
1:38:03constitutes less than 15 drops of blood.
1:38:08Less than 15 drops. Now when you talk
1:38:11about the uh estimated one and a half
1:38:14cc's of blood that was missing from the
1:38:16blood vial that would constitute
1:38:18something like 30 drops of blood. And
1:38:20when you talk about that blood drop vial
1:38:23Philip Dan Adder an experienced
1:38:24investigator for the first time in his
1:38:26career decided to bring the blood vial
1:38:29from downtown where he could have booked
1:38:30it out here to my home when he didn't
1:38:33even know if uh Dennis Wong would still
1:38:36be here. I find that very unusual. Since
1:38:38we're out here, let's talk about some
1:38:40observations that Allan Park may have
1:38:42had. Uh, this is my car. It's a Bentley.
1:38:45Uh, and I'm talking about Allen Park
1:38:47here. Alan Park, I felt, was an honest
1:38:49witness who just made some honest
1:38:52observational mistakes, as we know. Uh,
1:38:55his comments about the Bronco on the
1:38:57street. He didn't notice it coming or
1:38:58going. He stated uh that he felt that
1:39:00there were two cars parked here. Well,
1:39:02he was wrong. There was only one car
1:39:03parked here. Arnell, my daughter, didn't
1:39:05return home till about 1:00 that night.
1:39:08And I can only assume that his mistake
1:39:10came about because he saw pictures of uh
1:39:12that the prosecution took uh when he was
1:39:14up in their office. I think Ko Kalin
1:39:16would tell you there were only one car
1:39:18parked here. I would go on to say that
1:39:21he was driving a stretch limo. Now,
1:39:23normally if there were two cars parked
1:39:25here correctly, you cannot get a stretch
1:39:27limo through my driveway. It's just a
1:39:29little too tight uh back there by the
1:39:31garage. And most limo drivers that come
1:39:34here, if they're driving a stretch, they
1:39:35have to back in on Ashford and then
1:39:37drive out of Asheford. This is a picture
1:39:39that the prosecution took of my car and
1:39:42my daughter's car as they were parked
1:39:44that morning. Now, you couldn't even get
1:39:46a normal car around that curve uh the
1:39:49way these two cars were parked. Another
1:39:51point I want to make about Allen Park,
1:39:53who once again, I think was an honest
1:39:55witness. I just think he made a couple
1:39:57of honest observational mistakes. He was
1:40:00pretty vehement on the stand that the
1:40:02golf bag that we showed him in court was
1:40:05not the golf bag that I had. He did
1:40:07state that it was a Swiss Army knife
1:40:09golf bag, but this is not the bag, I
1:40:11think, was his uh exact words. And he
1:40:13was pretty vehement about that. Well,
1:40:15Swiss Army knife only had a few golf
1:40:17bags. They had just recently sent me
1:40:19that golf bag uh as a gift. It's the
1:40:22only golf bag that Swiss Army makes.
1:40:26There's no other. that could have been
1:40:28no other. So, here's a guy who felt that
1:40:31he observed some things. Uh, he was
1:40:34wrong. He had no axe to grind one way or
1:40:36the other. I just feel it was an honest
1:40:38mistake. He was not a detective. He was
1:40:40here just to pick up a customer and take
1:40:41him to the airport. And there's no
1:40:43reason for him to, you know, be tested
1:40:47uh on his observational skills. And
1:40:48unfortunately, uh, he made a few
1:40:50mistakes. Now, since we're outside,
1:40:53let's go back to what I thought was uh
1:40:55some of the more informative uh uh
1:40:58evidence that something funny went on
1:41:00during this investigation. I want you to
1:41:03assume that perhaps at some time since
1:41:051985 or six, you addressed a member of
1:41:09the African-Amean race as a
1:41:12Is it possible that you have
1:41:14forgotten that act on your part? No,
1:41:17it's not possible. Are you therefore
1:41:18saying that you have not used that word
1:41:21in the past 10 years, Detective Furman?
1:41:24Yes, that's what I'm saying. And you say
1:41:25on your oath that you have not addressed
1:41:28any black person as a or spoken
1:41:31about black people as in the
1:41:33past 10 years, Detective Furman. That's
1:41:35what I'm saying, sir. So that anyone who
1:41:37comes to this court and quotes you as
1:41:39using that word in dealing with
1:41:41African-Americans would be a liar, would
1:41:43they not, Detective? Yes, they would.
1:41:45All of them. Correct. All of them. All
1:41:47right. Was the testimony that you gave
1:41:50at the preliminary hearing in this case
1:41:52completely truthful?
1:41:56I wish to assert my fifth amendment
1:41:58privilege.
1:42:00Have you ever falsified a police report?
1:42:05I wish to assert my fifth amendment
1:42:06privilege.
1:42:09Is it your intention to assert your
1:42:11fifth amendment privilege with respect
1:42:12to all questions that I ask you?
1:42:15Yes, Detective Furman, did you plant or
1:42:19manufacture any evidence in this case?
1:42:23I assert my fifth amendment privilege.
1:42:25And let me come back to Mark Ferman for
1:42:27a minute, just so it's
1:42:30clear. Did he lie when he testified here
1:42:33in this courtroom saying that he did not
1:42:36use racial epithets in the last 10
1:42:39years?
1:42:40Yes. Is he a
1:42:43racist? Yes.
1:42:45Is he the worst LAPD has to offer? Yes.
1:42:50Do we wish that this person was never
1:42:52hired by
1:42:53LAPD? Yes. Should LAPD have ever hired
1:42:57him?
1:42:59No. Should such a person be a police
1:43:01officer? No. In fact, do we wish there
1:43:05were no such person on the planet? Yes.
1:43:08Now, we're going to walk down the uh
1:43:10alleyway or I guess sidewalk to the
1:43:12south of my house where Ferman
1:43:15supposedly found the glove. First thing
1:43:17I want to draw your attention to is
1:43:19there's a door here that goes into my
1:43:21garage that then uh goes and you can go
1:43:23into my house that way. Obviously, if I
1:43:25had committed these murders and I was
1:43:26trying to get into my house undetected
1:43:28with a limo driver uh with an un
1:43:30unobstructed view looking down my
1:43:32driveway, I could have gone through this
1:43:33door. The prosecution made a big deal
1:43:35about this door, saying there was a lot
1:43:37of stuff on the other side so that you
1:43:40couldn't get in this door. But as you
1:43:41can see, it opens outward, not inward.
1:43:43So, it have been no problem to go in
1:43:45there and negotiate some of the items
1:43:46that were on the other side uh if I
1:43:49wanted to get into my house that night.
1:43:51Now, as we walk down this walkway,
1:43:53you'll see there's a lot of debris and
1:43:55uh I have old pavers here, some old
1:43:58bricks here. Um, one thing that's very
1:44:01interesting, there was no blood drops
1:44:03detected anywhere along this walkway
1:44:05here. Let's take time and look at
1:44:07another door. This door goes into my
1:44:09washroom. Uh, uh, which is obviously
1:44:12inside my house. If you recall, Darden
1:44:14was making a big deal about uh, some
1:44:16clothes that was in my washer, trying to
1:44:18imply they may have been mine. And in
1:44:20closer inspection, we saw that they were
1:44:22panties and things. They were my
1:44:23daughter's Arnell's clothes. And of
1:44:25course, that's another one of these uh
1:44:27uh theories or or what they call Kodak
1:44:30moments in in the trial that didn't go
1:44:32for the prosecution that they thought
1:44:34with all that investigation, they had
1:44:36figured something outcution that they
1:44:38thought uh with all that investigation,
1:44:40they had figured something out. One
1:44:41thing you're going to see with all this
1:44:43dense foliage, it's a little thinner now
1:44:45than it was back then that runs along
1:44:47the side of uh this house, there's a lot
1:44:50of berries. these berries from these
1:44:52Eugenia plants. Uh they were all over
1:44:54the floor of this uh walkway. Once
1:44:57again, there was no blood going down
1:44:59here. You see the thickness of the uh
1:45:01foliage here. It would have been pretty
1:45:03difficult to come over this this this
1:45:05wall, this fence. If you take a good
1:45:07look at this fence also, you'll see that
1:45:09it's sort of tied off at the top. Uh and
1:45:12it's pretty sharp here at the top. And
1:45:13you would think that anyone who was
1:45:15trying to come over this uh fence could
1:45:17have had some problems with uh hurting
1:45:19themselves on this wire. And of of
1:45:21course there was no blood. You would
1:45:23imagine this person was covered in
1:45:24blood. There'd be some blood or some
1:45:25fibers or something there. Here we have
1:45:28this air conditioning unit which we've
1:45:30heard a lot about. Uh once again when I
1:45:32was talking about that A&E 2hour special
1:45:35that I saw the other night on the trial
1:45:37and Bill Curtis made a point there
1:45:39saying this was a unit that Ko Kalin
1:45:41heard three loud thumps from. Well, KO
1:45:44Kalin at no time in this trial said that
1:45:47he heard three loud thumps from the air
1:45:49conditioning unit. Once again, that was
1:45:51one of Marsha Clark's theories. She said
1:45:54that what KO actually said and he
1:45:56demonstrated when he was on the stand
1:45:58with the with the table in front of him
1:45:59that he
1:46:01heard three loud bumps sort of like
1:46:03that. I don't know what that could have
1:46:04been. Maybe it was a signal. I have no
1:46:06idea. But he never said that he heard
1:46:09anyone hit this air conditioning unit.
1:46:11That was a theory of Marsha Clarks. Now,
1:46:14let's take a good look at this air
1:46:15conditioning unit. You can see there's
1:46:17some slats here. They face outward. It's
1:46:20head high. So, one would think if anyone
1:46:23ran back here in the dark and ran into
1:46:26this uh unit that they would should
1:46:28should have sustained some type of
1:46:29bruise, some type of injury. And of
1:46:31course, if they were bloodied and had
1:46:33blood on them, uh there should have been
1:46:35some fabric or some blood on that unit.
1:46:38Right down here about four or 5 ft from
1:46:40this unit is where they found or where
1:46:42they claimed to have found uh the glove.
1:46:45Uh one very interesting thing about that
1:46:48glove, there was no debris on it. There
1:46:50was a lot more here then than there is
1:46:52now. And one key thing about that glove,
1:46:54when Ferman saw it, he said it was still
1:46:56wet. It was thick. We did some
1:46:59experiments with that with experts and
1:47:00they all told you that there was no
1:47:03possible way seven hours later after
1:47:06this crime that that glove could still
1:47:07have bloody uh had blood on it. Could
1:47:10still be wet and still be bloody. That
1:47:12was I think a sper an experiment that I
1:47:15can't recall now if we really got it
1:47:16into evidence or not but uh we know and
1:47:19the public should know that that was an
1:47:21experiment that was done and it proved
1:47:23that that glove should have been dried
1:47:26uh by that time in the morning. Now
1:47:28let's go around front again and I'll
1:47:30show you some more interesting things.
1:47:32One other point I should say once again
1:47:34these berries that were here were also
1:47:35at Nicole's house. If someone walked out
1:47:38of that walkway, the side of her house,
1:47:39and if they went uh into that Bronco,
1:47:41there should have been some debris, some
1:47:44leaves, some berries, the same should uh
1:47:46have been detected in my home. I have
1:47:49some very light carpeting, which I'm
1:47:50going to show you in a minute. Uh if
1:47:52someone ran through here and then went
1:47:53right into my house and went up that
1:47:55carpeting, stepping on these berries,
1:47:57one would think there'd be some trace of
1:47:59that on this very light carpeting. Let's
1:48:01go around
1:48:04front before we go into my foyer and
1:48:07talk about more of the uh so-called
1:48:09blood evidence. Uh uh since we're out
1:48:12here, let me cover a few things that
1:48:14sort of came into the the trial that
1:48:17there was a little sarcasm about me
1:48:19hitting golf balls. Uh uh shortly after
1:48:22I got home, I would say uh 10:00, a
1:48:24little after 10:00, I came out here. I
1:48:26was actually looking for a sand wedge. I
1:48:28had recently got some new clubs. the
1:48:31Callaway Big Bera Irons and I didn't
1:48:33like their sand wedge and I wanted to go
1:48:34back to my old Callaway sand wedge. I
1:48:37also wanted to change my 3-wood. I'd
1:48:39gone into my garage and I had gotten an
1:48:40old 3-wood, a Wood Brothers, a sort of a
1:48:43custommade club, even though the head
1:48:44was kind of beat up. I walked out here
1:48:46to my Bentley. I opened a trunk up where
1:48:48I had a lot of golf clubs which police
1:48:50had confiscated at some later time. And
1:48:53I couldn't find my sandwiches and I took
1:48:55a pitching iron. I was uh looking for
1:48:57some balls. I play with a ball called
1:48:59MaxFly 100. I had no new Maxfly balls,
1:49:02even though I have a closet full of
1:49:03other balls that I never used, but I did
1:49:06have a couple of bags of balls in the
1:49:08trunk of my car, balls that I had
1:49:10already used. Normally, I play two
1:49:11sleeves of balls per round of golf. So,
1:49:14some of the balls that I would throw
1:49:15away, uh, other people, uh, would think
1:49:18were great golf balls. I went through
1:49:20that bag and I tried to pick some
1:49:22unscuffed balls. I picked about five or
1:49:24six unscuffed balls. I put them in a
1:49:26little bag that I had in the trunk of my
1:49:28car that had a a windbreaker in it, a
1:49:30Hertz windbreaker in it. I put those
1:49:32balls in that bag. I took the pitching
1:49:35wig and I took about four or five other
1:49:37balls and I walked over here. I dropped
1:49:39the bag right around here. A bag,
1:49:41incidentally, we brought into the
1:49:43courtroom, but since Alan Park claimed
1:49:45he never saw that uh bag and couldn't
1:49:47identify it, uh Judge Eido wouldn't
1:49:49allow us to put it into evidence. But
1:49:52instead of any anyway, I brought four or
1:49:54five balls, scuff balls, drop them here.
1:49:56Normally I have a net here that my son
1:49:59uh Justin will hit balls into. And I do
1:50:01a lot of chipping around here. And I
1:50:02began to chip those five or six balls
1:50:05away. Uh I chipped a couple of them over
1:50:08into the sand. And I actually chipped uh
1:50:11hit a full hit and hit one over this
1:50:13tree onto Mrs. Neverer's property, which
1:50:15is across Ashford. Uh curiously enough,
1:50:19the police found some golf balls. the
1:50:21next day. You never saw that in
1:50:23evidence, though, but I saw it in one of
1:50:25their discovery property reports. They
1:50:27found some of those golf balls. I
1:50:29actually skull one, hit some of the
1:50:30playground equipment, and I had recently
1:50:33gotten all the dents out of my card. I
1:50:35was cringing trying to figure out where
1:50:36that ball uh had gone. At that point, I
1:50:39walked back to my uh Bentley. I put the
1:50:42club back in my Bentley. I actually left
1:50:44both the white bag as well as the other
1:50:47bag down here. No one ever mentions that
1:50:49white bag. We'll get to that a little uh
1:50:50later. And I then walked out and looked
1:50:53into my back of my uh uh Bronco to see
1:50:56if I had any clubs there. And my dog was
1:50:59out. We ended up walking back into my uh
1:51:01Ashford gate cuz I normally keep one of
1:51:03the gates uh on a hinge. And then I went
1:51:06into the house. Now, hitting golf balls
1:51:08took all
1:51:10of two minutes. All of about two minutes
1:51:13at the most. And I may have been outside
1:51:16uh between trying to find the club in
1:51:18the trunk of my car, being in my uh
1:51:21garage, picking balls that were
1:51:23unscuffed, uh coming over here, hitting
1:51:25golf balls, looking into my Bronco, and
1:51:27walking back into my house. No more than
1:51:3010 minutes, that whole period of time.
1:51:33And at the same time, he said almost
1:51:37simultaneously, he saw a person
1:51:41approximately 6 feet tall, 200 lb,
1:51:45African-Amean, wearing all dark
1:51:46clothing,
1:51:48walking at a good pace up the
1:51:54driveway. Now, at the same time that you
1:51:56saw Ko Kalin in the sideyard, did you
1:51:59see anything else? Yes, I saw a uh a
1:52:02figure come down. Well, not come down,
1:52:05but I saw a
1:52:06figure come into the uh entrance way of
1:52:10the house just about where the where the
1:52:13driveway starts. Can you show us on this
1:52:16uh diagram where you first saw that
1:52:18person?
1:52:26Um just if you go where the circle
1:52:31is and go straight back. No, the other
1:52:35way.
1:52:37Uh a little bit
1:52:39farther. It was about
1:52:43there around that area.
1:52:48As I walk down my driveway, as you can
1:52:50see, it's easy to see me. Alan Park
1:52:52testified on the stand that he had a
1:52:55view from the end of my garage right up
1:52:57here, actually to the front of my house.
1:53:00And this is uh I guess represents some
1:53:02of the uh biggest frustration I had, not
1:53:04only during the trial, but after the
1:53:06trial when Marshia Clark tried to create
1:53:09some impressions that fortunately the
1:53:11jury didn't buy it. Unfortunately, the
1:53:13pundits bought it. They sold it to you.
1:53:15And a lot of people out there I see in
1:53:18interviews that we do on man on the
1:53:19street they ask this question. You
1:53:21notice that Ross Becker asked me who was
1:53:23a shadowy figure that came across the
1:53:25driveway. Bill Curtis who did a very
1:53:28fine two hours on A&E even felt asked a
1:53:31question at one point about a shadowy
1:53:33figure coming down the driveway or
1:53:35crossed the lawn and entered the house.
1:53:37One guy even said who was the guy Alan
1:53:38Park saw climb the wall. The facts are
1:53:42nobody at no time I should say did Allan
1:53:44Park uh indicate that he saw anybody
1:53:46climb the wall, come down a driveway,
1:53:48cross a lawn or even come across uh the
1:53:51uh driveway. That was a figment of
1:53:53Marsha Clark's uh in her mind and she
1:53:56tried to sell that to you and
1:53:57unfortunately a lot of you people uh
1:53:59bought that. What Alan Park testified to
1:54:01that there was a person that was right
1:54:03about here. He put an X on an exhibit to
1:54:06prove it. Right here was where my golf
1:54:08bags were placed. Where I walked out of
1:54:09my house, put my suit bag down, looked
1:54:12into my golf bag. When he was let into
1:54:14my property by Ko Kalin, and they
1:54:16arrived here, right here was a suit bag,
1:54:19which Allan Park thought was a duffel
1:54:20bag. As we know now, it was a suit bag.
1:54:22Uh later on, you saw me on the plane and
1:54:24got off the plane with it. And my golf
1:54:26bag. That's all he saw in the in the
1:54:28time he arrived here was 10:20. I guess
1:54:30he was here until after 11:00. That is
1:54:33the only activity outside of my house
1:54:36that he witnessed. Now, let's go inside.
1:54:45How much blood did you withdraw from Mr.
1:54:47Simpson? Approximately 8 cc's. You say
1:54:50approximately. You did not measure the
1:54:52amount. Well, it could have been 7.9 or
1:54:55it could have been
1:54:578.1. And he uh I just looked at the
1:55:00syringe and looked at at about 8 cc's. I
1:55:03went through the needle from his arm.
1:55:05Nobody asked you to take a precise
1:55:07amount of blood. And you did not record
1:55:09the amount of blood you took? No, it's
1:55:11just routinely. That's about the amount
1:55:13I usually draw. And you do this on a
1:55:15routine basis. Every day. Do you do this
1:55:17every day in the jail? Take blood? Uh
1:55:19whenever. Not for this sort of thing.
1:55:21It's usually for alcohol. Blood alcohol.
1:55:24But you do take blood on a regular
1:55:26basis. And you take the same amount of
1:55:27blood? Yes. took another test tube and
1:55:31kept putting in water until it looked
1:55:34approximately as to what I had drawn. I
1:55:37measured that and that was about 6 and
1:55:391/2 C. So I estimate that that's what I
1:55:42really had wrong.
1:55:45So after you had done this, what
1:55:48conclusion did you come to? I came to
1:55:50the conclusion I was wrong in the
1:55:51statement I made that I didn't draw ATC.
1:55:54Said I should do about six to six and a
1:55:56half. I just looked at the syringe and
1:55:59it looked at about 8 cc's. That was a
1:56:02bad
1:56:03statement which I should have made. I
1:56:06looked at it. I should have said it
1:56:07looked like it was enough which it was
1:56:10enough. I uh 8 cc's I
1:56:14just I was wrong in that 8 cc's all
1:56:17together. How many times have you taken
1:56:20blood
1:56:21from Parker Center out to a crime scene?
1:56:35I don't know. This may have been the
1:56:37first
1:56:37time. I don't know. I can't recall right
1:56:41now any other times that I've done that.
1:56:46So now you're saying
1:56:49that Mr. Simpsons grey Manila envelope
1:56:53with the blood sample in it was put into
1:56:55that black P plastic trash bag that Miss
1:56:59Misola was carrying.
1:57:02To the best of my recollection, yes. And
1:57:06u did you place it in the trash bag in
1:57:10her sight in her presence?
1:57:13I don't think so. I don't recall.
1:57:17You just said I don't think so. And then
1:57:20you said, "I don't recall." That's
1:57:22right.
1:57:26You told us that one would expect that
1:57:28swat these swatches having been put in a
1:57:31test tube at 6:30 p.m. on June 13th and
1:57:33removed at 7:30 a.m. on June 14th to be
1:57:37dry. Yes.
1:57:40Given that fact,
1:57:43given that opinion, given that opinion,
1:57:48what is your opinion about the existence
1:57:51of these transfer states?
1:57:54I believe no foundation is possible.
1:57:58The only opinion I can giving under this
1:58:02circumstance something wrong.
1:58:05No further question.
1:58:09Well, as I enter the fouryear of my
1:58:11house, we're going to go back and talk
1:58:13about blood drops. Uh, I think it should
1:58:15be noted that at no time did they count
1:58:17the swatches that they used to collect
1:58:19these blood drops at Bundy, uh, in the
1:58:22driveway here or anywhere in this case,
1:58:23uh, and the next day when they process
1:58:25these blood drops or these swatches, uh,
1:58:27they did it in the same area that they
1:58:29had my reference vial. And I'm told by
1:58:32DNA experts that that is a no no. Now,
1:58:35if you come down here, I'm going to
1:58:37place this picture down at this spot
1:58:39here. This picture shows three blood
1:58:42drops that uh they said that they found
1:58:44in my foyer right about this spot. Uh as
1:58:46you can see by my thumbnail uh which is
1:58:50bigger than these pegs that these are
1:58:51pretty small uh drops and I believe it
1:58:53was Michael Baden that that uh testified
1:58:56that that would be indicative of a small
1:58:59paper cut, certainly not of a big cut.
1:59:02Uh, I think we should also point out
1:59:03that it was in this area that detective
1:59:06uh, Van Adder claimed that he turned
1:59:08over my reference bow to Dennis Fun.
1:59:11Now, uh, I guess it was in a garbage bag
1:59:14or something and they gave that to
1:59:15Andrea Maza who took it out even though
1:59:17they never told her that a reference bow
1:59:20was in that bag. Uh, when Andrea Maza
1:59:23was asked, did you see this exchange
1:59:25take place? Uh she testified that for
1:59:27that one minute, we call it the Mazola
1:59:29minute, she went into the other room,
1:59:31sat on the couch, and closed her eyes.
1:59:33Huh. Sort of a variation on see no evil
1:59:36and hear no evil. Uh incidentally, they
1:59:38checked all of these items, the door
1:59:40knob, the light switches. As we move
1:59:42over to my staircase, the rug, my
1:59:45banister, checked all of these items for
1:59:48blood. And of course, no blood found.
1:59:51And if you look at this carpeting, it's
1:59:53a little more plush than the carpeting
1:59:56that was in my Bronco. Those Bruno
1:59:58Magley shoes had some ridges in them.
2:00:00You would have thought that if there was
2:00:02some blood in there anywhere that uh
2:00:04this carpeting would have picked up some
2:00:06of it, and of course it didn't. Let's go
2:00:08up to my bedroom. In Mr. Simpson's
2:00:10master bedroom
2:00:12area, did you see
2:00:15someone walking around with a videotape
2:00:19camera?
2:00:23I don't recall when I saw the videotape
2:00:27camera coming through. I do recall it
2:00:29being there, though. You recall uh a
2:00:33gentleman named Mr. Ford. Do you know
2:00:35him? Yes, I do. African-American
2:00:37gentleman? Yes. And he was the one that
2:00:40was carrying around the video camera?
2:00:42Yes.
2:00:44You have no recollection whatsoever of
2:00:47them of Mr. Ford with the video camera
2:00:51up in the master bedroom at or around
2:00:53the time that you were doing collection.
2:00:56Again, I didn't keep track of Mr. Ford
2:01:00at that time. Have you seen that
2:01:02videotape?
2:01:03No, I have not. Have you had discussions
2:01:05with anybody about that videotape? No.
2:01:09Have you had any discussions with people
2:01:11at SID about what's shown on that
2:01:13videotape?
2:01:14No. Have you had discussions with anyone
2:01:17in the district attorney's office as to
2:01:19what's shown on that videotape? No.
2:01:24Has anybody anywhere communicated to you
2:01:27anything about whether or not at 4:14 in
2:01:31the afternoon those socks are depicted
2:01:35on that videotape?
2:01:39No one has communicated that information
2:01:41to me or with me. Has anybody indicated
2:01:44to you there's some question as to
2:01:46whether or not those socks are on the
2:01:48videotape? So I believe it was your
2:01:50testimony on direct examination that you
2:01:53collected the socks sometime between
2:01:564:30 and 4:40
2:01:59about then. Yes. And then before you
2:02:01left the residence you collected two
2:02:03other items numbers 15 and 16 and those
2:02:06were at 5 and
2:02:08505. And then we come to those
2:02:12socks. Those
2:02:15socks. They just don't
2:02:17fit. They just don't
2:02:19fit. They just don't
2:02:21fit. Watch with me now a video. I want
2:02:25you to watch the time counter in this
2:02:27time frame, and you'll understand how
2:02:30important this is. This is Mr. Willie
2:02:31Ford going up into the bedroom. It's
2:02:333:13, which he says is 4:13 because it
2:02:35hadn't been changed. This is 4:13 p.m.
2:02:38on June 13th,
2:02:391994. Okay, thank
2:02:42you. You look at the foot of the bed
2:02:44there where the socks are supposed to
2:02:46be, you'll see no socks in this
2:02:49video. And you'll recall that Mr. Willie
2:02:52Ford testified about this. And as him,
2:02:55well, where where are the socks, Mr.
2:02:58Ford? I didn't see any
2:03:02socks. So now that's interesting, isn't
2:03:04it? at
2:03:064:13 on June 13th, 1994. These socks,
2:03:11they supposedly recover. These
2:03:12mysterious socks, these socks that no
2:03:15one sees any blood on until August 4th
2:03:18all of a sudden. These socks that are
2:03:20picked up that Looper says he picks them
2:03:22up because they just look out of place.
2:03:23I don't have any reason to pick them up.
2:03:25I'll just take these socks. They're out
2:03:26of place. Well, as I come up my stairs,
2:03:29white carpeting all the way, bananister.
2:03:31They checked everything and no blood.
2:03:34Now come with me into my
2:03:36bedroom. Now this is my bedroom.
2:03:38Incidentally, I believe this is a book
2:03:40that every American should read. This
2:03:43was a room and this is the area
2:03:45basically where the police claimed to
2:03:47have found the socks. Even they admit
2:03:48that these socks seem somewhat out of
2:03:50place. What's interestingly uh
2:03:52interesting about that is a videographer
2:03:55named Willie Ford, a police officer, was
2:03:57here at 4:13. He photographed the entire
2:04:00room. He didn't see any socks. No one
2:04:02told him to try to avoid stepping on any
2:04:05socks. And if you look at that video,
2:04:06what I find very curious is the video
2:04:09goes right up to the point where you
2:04:11would see the socks. The video goes off
2:04:13and about four or five feet beyond that,
2:04:15the video begins again. So just that
2:04:18crucial area where the socks would have
2:04:20been, you don't see. What's key about
2:04:21Willie Ford being here at 413 is Andrea
2:04:24Mazola and Dennis Fong in their log show
2:04:27that they collected the socks after
2:04:294:30. after 4:30. Where were those socks
2:04:33when uh Willie Ford was in this room?
2:04:35Another point I'd like to make about
2:04:37this videographer. Uh throughout this
2:04:39trial, we asked for film. Was there any
2:04:42film taken? This is for you pundits and
2:04:44you people out there that say the police
2:04:46won't cover up and they're forthcoming
2:04:48all the time. We asked on TV, in the
2:04:51courtroom, out of the courtroom time and
2:04:53time again, where were there any film?
2:04:56Were there any videographer here? Uh was
2:04:58there any film taken? And they denied
2:05:00it. They denied it. They denied it. Uh
2:05:03Willie Ford is a afroAmerican or
2:05:06African-American uh big man with a video
2:05:09camera. I I I I find it hard to believe
2:05:12that you can miss this guy. Now, months
2:05:15and months later, we're looking at some
2:05:17steel pictures. And lo and behold, what
2:05:19do we see in one of these still
2:05:20pictures? A picture of a videographer,
2:05:23Willie Ford, in this house taking
2:05:25pictures. Now, I submit to you there are
2:05:28police all over this house. All over the
2:05:31place. There were police officers who
2:05:33directed this man on what pictures to
2:05:35take, what pictures not to take. We're
2:05:37on national TV time and again. We made
2:05:40requests for was there any video taken?
2:05:43Were there any film taken at these
2:05:44scenes? And the police denied it. They
2:05:47denied it. They denied it. Even though
2:05:49obviously many of them knew there was
2:05:51some video taken. Uh, their excuse was a
2:05:54police officer said he threw it in his
2:05:56drawer and he forgot about it. He forgot
2:05:58about
2:05:59it. One other point before I leave my
2:06:02bedroom. Now, this is my bedroom. As you
2:06:04notice, it faces east. It faces my uh
2:06:07swimming pool and my tennis court and
2:06:10the entry to my house is to the west.
2:06:12Now, perceptions in this case has uh
2:06:15really had an interesting effect on the
2:06:17public and on the pundits. Uh uh I think
2:06:19it was Alan Park that mentioned that uh
2:06:22when he drove up he couldn't see any
2:06:24lights on in my house and of course uh
2:06:26Marcia Clark took that as she does often
2:06:29and uh before the trial was over uh it
2:06:32was uh a definitive there was no lights
2:06:34on in his house. Tom Brokar found that
2:06:37very interested interesting rather
2:06:39because he stated uh after our aborted
2:06:41interview my aborted interview with U
2:06:44NBC that that was a question he wanted
2:06:46to ask me. Why were you uh getting
2:06:49dressed in the dark? There was no lights
2:06:50on uh in the house and I want to show
2:06:52you something to uh to answer that. That
2:06:55was a question he wanted to ask me. Why
2:06:58were you uh getting dressed in the dark?
2:07:00There was no lights on in the house and
2:07:02I want to show you something to uh to
2:07:04answer
2:07:05that. Now, we have so much ground to
2:07:08cover here. It would be simply
2:07:09impossible to cover it all in this
2:07:11period of time. Uh there's so many
2:07:13things that I want to talk about. I'm
2:07:14going to take a little opportunity right
2:07:16now uh to attempt to cover some things
2:07:18that are very important to me. Uh I
2:07:21realize that during the interview
2:07:23portion of this case, we're going to
2:07:24have a an awful lot of criticism that
2:07:27Ross Becker didn't cover some areas, but
2:07:29I'll tell you in that period of time,
2:07:31there's days worth of uh of uh questions
2:07:35in this case that I would like to
2:07:36address. And I'm sure in the not too
2:07:38distant future, I will be addressing
2:07:40those things. And I don't care who did
2:07:42this interview. It would have been
2:07:43virtually impossible to cover all of the
2:07:46issues. But as I say, there's some uh
2:07:49things that are very close to me that I
2:07:51would like to attempt to cover in this
2:07:53uh next half hour or so. As I mentioned
2:07:57earlier, uh when we were upstairs, uh uh
2:08:00there's something about this room and
2:08:01the lighting in this room that I'd like
2:08:03to go into right now. uh it seemed to be
2:08:05very important to uh uh Brokaw and and
2:08:08Marshia Clark seemed to um do her normal
2:08:11thing uh referred to it uh erroneously
2:08:14or inaccurately I should say throughout
2:08:16this trial and that's the lighting that
2:08:18was here that night. I believe uh Allan
2:08:22Park said words to the effect that um uh
2:08:24he didn't see or he couldn't detect any
2:08:26lighting in the house. Not that there
2:08:28was no lights on would probably would
2:08:29have been the correct way to state it
2:08:31because from that front gate uh either
2:08:34one of my two gates uh it would have
2:08:36been virtually impossible. It is
2:08:38impossible and we're showing you that
2:08:39now. This is a view that he would have
2:08:41had uh of my house, but it's impossible
2:08:44to tell if any lights are on in my
2:08:46bedroom. As a matter of fact, I think I
2:08:48can turn on 90% of the lights on in my
2:08:50house, in my living room, uh my dining
2:08:53room, in my family room, my pool room,
2:08:55my bathroom, my bedroom. And uh from the
2:08:58street, uh you would notice that from
2:09:01the street, what you can see is my
2:09:02daughter's room upstairs, Sydney Brooks.
2:09:04You can see my office and the kitchen. I
2:09:07uh it bothered me when I was in uh
2:09:09court. I would go back to my cell and
2:09:11Marcia would say time and time again,
2:09:13there was no lights on in the house. And
2:09:14when that shadow we figure entered the
2:09:16house, lights went on all over the
2:09:17house. And I was saying, "Boy, how can
2:09:19she say that? That's not true. You can't
2:09:21tell when lights come on all over my
2:09:22house. The only rooms you can see is the
2:09:24kitchen." And since I wasn't packing a
2:09:26picnic picnic to go to Chicago on, I
2:09:28didn't go in the kitchen and turn on any
2:09:30lights. I didn't go into my office,
2:09:32which is which is the lower left room in
2:09:34my house. Uh looking at it, uh so those
2:09:37lights didn't come on. And upstairs,
2:09:38there was no reason to go into Sydney
2:09:40Brooks room because she was in bun on
2:09:41Bundy. But I knew that the lamps were on
2:09:44in my house. And as you can see, you can
2:09:45put the lamps on in my entry. You can
2:09:48put the lamp on in my kitchen. You can
2:09:49put on all the other lights on in my
2:09:51house. And there is just no way for
2:09:54someone who's at either one of those
2:09:55gates to one see it, detect it, or
2:09:58testify that no lights were on. So, uh,
2:10:00Tom Bro, I hope that answers your
2:10:02question. I was not getting dressed in
2:10:04the dark. Park did say he thought he saw
2:10:07some light upstairs. was uh he didn't
2:10:08know what it was and I believe there's
2:10:10probably lights coming out of my um out
2:10:13of my bedroom to the front of the house.
2:10:15So, uh Marcia said, "You can stop saying
2:10:16there was no lights on in my house. It
2:10:18was completely dark." And possibly, even
2:10:20though I know that the entry lamp was
2:10:22on, uh possibly I may have hit my foyer.
2:10:25Uh it's not really a chandelier. It's an
2:10:27antique peak there. And maybe that threw
2:10:29some more light on over the upstairs
2:10:31window or the closet that's next to my
2:10:33front door. Uh I I really can't say. But
2:10:36uh enough of the lights. Uh let's talk
2:10:39about
2:10:40opportunity. Uh Marsha Clark and the
2:10:43prosecution team sort of went out of
2:10:45their way to establish uh that I had
2:10:47plenty of opportunity. I'll tell you
2:10:49there certainly would have been u many
2:10:52more opportune times. If uh if I was uh
2:10:55bent to commit a crime, which I didn't
2:10:58uh such as this, uh I certainly wouldn't
2:11:01have picked this time to to do it. Uh I
2:11:03think it was very important for them to
2:11:05uh make this crime take place at 10:15.
2:11:08Uh they went out of their way to
2:11:10establish that with a barking dog,
2:11:12welling dog I guess was the word. And
2:11:14they avoided some witnesses, some key
2:11:16witnesses, people who walked by the
2:11:18scene. Uh people who were walking their
2:11:20dog heist, the young couple on their
2:11:22first date, uh people coming out of
2:11:24dinner parties uh uh that night. Uh they
2:11:27went out of their way to avoid calling
2:11:30those witnesses. And when these
2:11:32witnesses came forward, they went out of
2:11:33their way to attempt to discredit these
2:11:36witness witnesses to accuse them of
2:11:38trying to interject themselves in this
2:11:40case to to make money, which I found uh
2:11:43uh sort of ironic. Uh none of these
2:11:45people, including witnesses that were on
2:11:47the airplane, uh uh who copyrighted his
2:11:51notes. None of these people have gone
2:11:52out to try to make a dime on this case,
2:11:54but who went out and pimped it
2:11:56immediately. Marshia Clark, uh, Darden,
2:11:59these guys went out immediately and made
2:12:02millions of dollars. Now, I don't
2:12:04begrudge them that. I truly do not
2:12:06begrudge, uh, the defense team and the
2:12:08prosecution team for making money, but I
2:12:10think it's somewhat
2:12:12hypocritical of these people to try to
2:12:15cast aspersions on all of these other
2:12:17people, accuse them of trying to do it
2:12:19when they had their agents and they
2:12:20immediately took advantage of the
2:12:22celebrity that they received during this
2:12:24trial. Also during that opportunity, let
2:12:26me throw in this. The whole neighborhood
2:12:28knows my white Bronco. Knew it then. I'd
2:12:30spend much of the spring at Nicole's
2:12:32Bundy's house, more there than I did at
2:12:34my house. Everyone knew that car. That'd
2:12:36be the last car that I would drive uh
2:12:39secretly. Uh if I was going to attempt
2:12:42to commit a crime and Johnny did
2:12:44something during this uh case when he
2:12:45put a knit hat on his head, I submit to
2:12:48you that I could be two, three blocks
2:12:50away with a knit hat on my head and
2:12:52people would be saying, "Hey, there's
2:12:53OJ. see him down there with the knit hat
2:12:54on his head. It's uh I don't know. I
2:12:57thought it was uh ridiculous. Let's talk
2:13:00about the media a little bit. And this
2:13:02is sort of a pet peeve uh of mine. I I
2:13:05just I mean I was being barbecued from
2:13:08from day one on the media. And I I had
2:13:11always understood the media is supposed
2:13:12to be uh porting the facts, you know,
2:13:15without interpretation. Well, that
2:13:16certainly didn't happen in this case. Uh
2:13:19every place you looked, there was an
2:13:20interpretations. Everybody was putting
2:13:22their spin on it time and time again
2:13:25from the very beginning. Now, you expect
2:13:27some things. you take with a grain of
2:13:29salt for the most part stories you'll
2:13:32see in the tabloids uh the National
2:13:34Inquir uh the Globe and those tabloid uh
2:13:38publications but I can tell you flat out
2:13:41time and time again in this case and
2:13:43this is something you're going to hear a
2:13:45little more about because uh that will
2:13:46be my next uh litigation uh um um my my
2:13:51battle or my fight to get justice from
2:13:54the these publications because they
2:13:56didn't shade the truth. They didn't
2:13:57interpretate uh and interpret evidence.
2:14:00They flat out lied time and time again.
2:14:03They made up stories. Once they made up
2:14:06stories, some of the uh video uh tabloid
2:14:09uh shows, some under the guise of
2:14:12legitimate uh interview shows, they ran
2:14:15with those stories. uh they brought in
2:14:17uh psychiatrists and analysts to analyze
2:14:20why OJ did various things during the
2:14:23trial and since the trial, things that I
2:14:25didn't come close to doing. Uh uh just
2:14:28recently there was a big story um about
2:14:30me attempting suicide in the National
2:14:33Enquir. That's a flatout lie. I will put
2:14:36everything that I own. You can come in
2:14:37here National Inquir me daily. You can
2:14:40take everything I own if you can show me
2:14:42anything in that story that's true. any
2:14:44doctor who's ever entered this house to
2:14:46to help me. My daughter, you bring my
2:14:48kids into it. My son on Thanksgiving
2:14:50that I went to his house and wasn't
2:14:52welcome, that's totally false. His
2:14:54mother Margarite, her husband Anthony,
2:14:56myself and my daughter, and a couple of
2:14:57my daughter's girlfriends, we spend
2:15:00Thanksgiving together. And later on when
2:15:02some of the other younger kids came, we
2:15:03didn't watch any football. Uh we left,
2:15:06the mother and I, Margarite and I left.
2:15:09But never have I attempted suicide in
2:15:11any way, shape, or form. I saw stories
2:15:13where uh Neiman Marcus Neiman Marcus uh
2:15:18uh denied me the right to shop after
2:15:20hours. One, I never called Nean Marcus
2:15:23to do that. Two, the manager of Neiman
2:15:25Marcus called me to apologize for the
2:15:28story to say it wasn't true and to say I
2:15:30was more than welcome to come in there.
2:15:32I guess what bothers you, you can see a
2:15:34Jay Leno make jokes. It was painful to
2:15:36me, but I didn't think there was any
2:15:38real malice in the jokes that he was
2:15:40making. you see a Howard Stern, a guy
2:15:42that, hey, he's irreverent about
2:15:44everything. And even though I didn't
2:15:45like it, I thought some of it was uh was
2:15:47vicious, that's Howard Stern. So to an
2:15:50extent, you understand it. It's the
2:15:53legitimate press. People under the guise
2:15:56of journalism, people like Newsweek
2:15:58magazine and Time magazine. I mean, what
2:16:00was that all about? Time magazine. As if
2:16:03this crime wasn't bad enough, they
2:16:05darkened my picture. They put my picture
2:16:07on the cover. What was the purpose of
2:16:09that? The darker you are, is that the
2:16:11more sinister and evil that you might
2:16:13be? I mean, it's it's it's it's
2:16:15embarrassing almost. This is Time
2:16:17magazine. Newsweek is a magazine that I
2:16:20subscribe to. And time and time again,
2:16:22I'll talk a little about that in a
2:16:23second. They uh they just wrote stories.
2:16:26I think one of the most racist stories
2:16:28uh that I had ever read under the guise
2:16:30of journalism. They wrote in August of
2:16:3294. In that story, they accused me of
2:16:35going to the University of Southern
2:16:36California, a white school. They implied
2:16:39because I wanted to be white. The
2:16:41University of Southern California with
2:16:43one of the most storied sports histories
2:16:47of any school in the country. The first
2:16:49all-American in the early 20th century
2:16:51at USC was Bryce Taylor, a black man. So
2:16:55many great athletes, white, black,
2:16:57minorities, have gone in and out of that
2:17:00university. And I went there because I
2:17:02thought it was the best university that
2:17:03I can go for for an education and for
2:17:06the athletic tradition there. They
2:17:08accused me in this article for taking
2:17:10diction lessons because I want to sound
2:17:12white. Now, many of you out there wrote
2:17:16me in my early days in television,
2:17:18especially on Monday Night Football,
2:17:20told me you were fans of mine, but you
2:17:22wish I would work on my addiction. Like
2:17:24most actors, like most people who work
2:17:26in television, in the movies, uh I took
2:17:29that to heart and I hired addiction co
2:17:32coach so I wouldn't embarrass you or
2:17:33myself or my family by my addiction.
2:17:35Tonight there's a lot of ghetto in the
2:17:37way that I talk, but they accused me of
2:17:39trying to be white. Sir Lawrence Olivier
2:17:41to the day he died every morning started
2:17:43off with his voice coach. And I don't
2:17:45think there's any black person working
2:17:47in television, a white person who's
2:17:49serious about that craft that doesn't
2:17:51work on their addiction and their voice,
2:17:53but they said it because I wanted to be
2:17:55white or act more white or sound more
2:17:57white. Uh, in there there was some
2:17:59pictures, one with a group of women at a
2:18:01charity affair. I think they were with
2:18:02Hawaiian Tropic and they implied that I
2:18:04was looking for sleazy sleazy women
2:18:07looking for stuff. A couple of those
2:18:09women called Larry King and said that
2:18:11they approached me for the picture and I
2:18:13didn't uh attempt to date them or hit on
2:18:15them in any way, shape or fortune. Not
2:18:17that I'm not above that. Uh and probably
2:18:21the thing that was most embarrassing to
2:18:23me, they cropped the picture of me with
2:18:26what we call a comedy stripper in front
2:18:28of me. A stripper. Let me tell you about
2:18:31that night that happened in my backyard.
2:18:34We were celebrating mine and and Al
2:18:36Collins's 40th birthday, Nicole and my
2:18:3810th year together, Denise Brown's 30th
2:18:42birthday, Joe Stellini's 50th birthday,
2:18:44Arnell Simpson and Tanya Brown, Nicole's
2:18:47sister's graduation from high school. We
2:18:49had 400 of our friends and family there.
2:18:51We're on the stage. Nicole thought it
2:18:53was funny and send this comic stripper.
2:18:55My my family was there. Her family was
2:18:58there. All our friends was there. And
2:19:01what did they do? They cropped this
2:19:02picture to try to imply that here I am
2:19:05hanging in some sleazy area with
2:19:07strippers, you know, and all our family
2:19:09was there and they knew exactly what
2:19:11they were doing, you know, and all our
2:19:13family was there and they knew exactly
2:19:14what they were doing when they did that.
2:19:17It was totally embarrassing. And and the
2:19:19TV people, I mean, I'm a big fan of
2:19:21Katie Kirks. The day I got out of jail,
2:19:24the day after I should say that the
2:19:26verdict came in. I picked up my kids. I
2:19:28didn't go to any bakery, even though
2:19:29though I saw some nice young kids say
2:19:31that I was in a bakery. I didn't go to
2:19:33any bakery. I went straight up to
2:19:34Mohalland Drive. I picked up my kids. We
2:19:37met there and we went to a friend's
2:19:38house. That night, we slept together.
2:19:41The next morning, we were up early as
2:19:43kids are prone to be. My kids, my son
2:19:46Justin wanted me to go into a uh video
2:19:49arcade room that was at this house and
2:19:50play with them. and Sydney Brooke, my
2:19:52daughter, wanted me to get into the
2:19:54jacuzzi with her. While I was trying to
2:19:56debate with the kids, uh, which I would
2:19:58do because I didn't want to get into the
2:20:00jacuzzi, uh, the housekeeper came out
2:20:02and said, "OJ, uh, Mr. Simpson, uh, uh,
2:20:05would you come in here?" I walked into
2:20:08this kitchen and I saw Katie Kirk
2:20:10sitting with a woman named Sheila
2:20:12Weller, an author. And what this Sheila
2:20:15Willer was reporting uh secondhand I
2:20:18guess from an informed source that was
2:20:20another writer from some paper in New
2:20:22York was that that night I had returned
2:20:25to Lagona at 200 a.m. in the morning
2:20:28that the Browns were worried. They
2:20:30didn't know where we were. I didn't
2:20:32call. And when I arrived at my daughter
2:20:35Sydney Brookke, my daughter was
2:20:37traumatized. These people are resorting.
2:20:39I hear this this hypocrisy about the
2:20:41kids. you know, you should think about
2:20:43these kids and these people are using my
2:20:45kids, lying on my kids to make money.
2:20:48They said that we arrived at 2 am that
2:20:50night. Now, if I was a mother or a
2:20:52parent anywhere in America, I'm watching
2:20:54the Today Show. I expect to get facts. I
2:20:58expect honest reporting on this show, I
2:21:01would be very upset. I wouldn't blame
2:21:03any woman in America that moment to hate
2:21:06OJ Simpson. How could he do this to his
2:21:08kids when the facts of the matter? It
2:21:10was a flatout lie. My kids were with me.
2:21:13And when the person I was with called
2:21:15NBC to say this isn't true, he knew
2:21:17people at NBC. He was told, "How do you
2:21:20know it's not true?" That's the standard
2:21:23now. How do you know it's not true? That
2:21:27shouldn't be the standard. Now, uh let's
2:21:30talk about uh motive. something that
2:21:32Darden had a comment on and uh at one
2:21:35point in this case, especially uh during
2:21:37his closing
2:21:40statements. I'm gonna take a little time
2:21:42here and try to tell you and give you a
2:21:44picture of my relationship with Nicole
2:21:46the last two and a half years. Uh uh you
2:21:49heard Darden jealousy control. These
2:21:52were the things that he claimed led to
2:21:54me committing this crime. First, I want
2:21:56to say that in the 15 years before
2:21:591992, Nicole never at any point in time
2:22:02ever gave me a reason to be jealous. Uh
2:22:05that wasn't Nicole's style. My mother
2:22:07used to tell me, it's amazing Nicole
2:22:09doesn't even see any other man. If we
2:22:11had any arguments uh before that time,
2:22:13it was about things that I was doing,
2:22:15things a lot of them I wasn't that proud
2:22:17of, but things that uh I had done during
2:22:20that period of time. In January, it was
2:22:22January 6 of 1992, Nicole and I went to
2:22:25lunch and she informed me that she
2:22:27wanted uh uh to separate, not to have a
2:22:29divorce. She wanted to separate. She
2:22:32said uh there was nothing that I had
2:22:33done. Uh as a matter of fact, she
2:22:35commended on me on my actions for the
2:22:37previous two years, but she felt that
2:22:39she just wanted to be on her own for a
2:22:41while. Of course, I attempted to talk
2:22:43her out of it. Uh she was pretty
2:22:45vehement about doing it for the next 30
2:22:47days.
2:22:48we live together in this house. Uh near
2:22:51the end of that 30 days, I told her if
2:22:53she didn't file for a divorce that I
2:22:55would because I didn't want to go a year
2:22:57uh deciding that we wanted to have a
2:22:59divorce and then go a year trying to get
2:23:01that divorce. And I felt there would be
2:23:02plenty of time in those the year that I
2:23:05thought it would take to have a final uh
2:23:07a degree in a uh the divorce settlement
2:23:10that uh we would know if we wanted to be
2:23:12together or not. Over the next three
2:23:14months, she moved to Gretner Green and
2:23:16uh we spent a lot of time together
2:23:18during those three months. We had an
2:23:19agreement that if any either one of us
2:23:22thought we were going to get into a
2:23:23serious relationship that we would call
2:23:25the other person and uh we would tell
2:23:28that other person. No one can tell you.
2:23:30No one can tell you in this period of
2:23:32time from January of
2:23:351992 to uh May of
2:23:391993, nearly a year and a half that
2:23:42Nicole and I ever had any argument, any
2:23:45single argument about who she was
2:23:47dating, where she was doing, I mean
2:23:50going, where she was traveling to, who
2:23:51she was traveling with, or who I was
2:23:53dating. in that period of time.
2:23:55Actually, it was in May, I met Paula
2:23:56Bobby, and she was the only girl that I
2:23:58dated. Uh, seriously, during that period
2:24:00of time, Nicole uh had a numerous uh
2:24:03people that she dated during that period
2:24:05of time. Uh during uh late February,
2:24:08Nicole began to send things to me
2:24:09through the kids, cupcakes, uh musical
2:24:13tapes, uh and began to call my office
2:24:15and call my home to speak to me. Uh I
2:24:18was in a relationship, a healthy
2:24:19relationship with Paula Bobby. Uh, I had
2:24:22uh conveyed to Nicole through a letter
2:24:24and through Kathy Randa that uh I really
2:24:27didn't want to get involved in uh
2:24:29anything in her life unless it concerned
2:24:31the kids. Uh Nicole didn't accept that.
2:24:35One day, I think it was mid-March, she
2:24:37showed up here and informed me that she
2:24:39didn't like some of the things that was
2:24:41going on in her life and that uh she
2:24:43missed me, she loved me, and she wanted
2:24:45us to get back together. I told her that
2:24:47I was not interested in that time. I did
2:24:49love her, but I was in a healthy
2:24:51relationship and I just wasn't
2:24:53interested in getting back together.
2:24:54Over the next 3 months, Nicole was quite
2:24:56insistent uh about that. She came to the
2:25:00golf course. Uh she came to my house. Uh
2:25:02I even went to Mexico and her and her
2:25:04friend showed up in Mexico.
2:25:05Interestingly enough, I never considered
2:25:08that stalking. I never would call that
2:25:10stalking. That was a woman that was in
2:25:12love with a man and felt she wanted to
2:25:13get back with that man. By May of 1993,
2:25:18Nicole had convinced me that maybe we
2:25:20should try it again. And uh I informed
2:25:23Paula Bobby about it. We had long
2:25:25discussions about it. We had no fight.
2:25:26She was hurt. And I was even hurt that I
2:25:29had to hurt her, but I felt an
2:25:30obligation to myself to my kids. And I
2:25:34didn't know exactly how I felt about
2:25:35Nicole that I must try it. And I told
2:25:37Nicole I would try it for a year, but
2:25:39there was a few conditions. One of the
2:25:41conditions is I wasn't going to let her
2:25:43move back in because if it didn't work,
2:25:44I didn't want my kids moving in and out.
2:25:47Uh I would try it for a year and uh
2:25:49there was only one friend of hers, one
2:25:51person, a female that I would not
2:25:53socialize with. Not that she couldn't.
2:25:55And she continued to socialize with this
2:25:57person. Uh but I would not socialize
2:26:00with this person. That wasn't Fe Reneg.
2:26:02Uh uh incidentally, for the next year,
2:26:05Nicole and I was together. You hear we
2:26:06were together and split up. That's not
2:26:08so. We never split up from May I mean
2:26:11January 6 of 1992 to May mother's day
2:26:14whatever that was in 1993. Nicole and I
2:26:17was apart. We weren't together in May of
2:26:201993. Even though we spent a lot of time
2:26:22together in the two months leading up to
2:26:23May of 93. Nicole and I got back
2:26:25together. It was a oneyear uh trial
2:26:29period. I set that time of one year. And
2:26:31one year to that day, Mother's Day,
2:26:34actually it was a day after Mother's Day
2:26:36in 1994.
2:26:38I told Nicole after returning from
2:26:40Puerto Rico and there's some things that
2:26:42took place that I can't even tell you
2:26:43about. When I was in Puerto Rico, I
2:26:45spoke to Nicole's mother while I was
2:26:473,000 miles away. Nicole was having some
2:26:49problems. I didn't understand them. When
2:26:51I came back, I told her that I just
2:26:53could not do this anymore. I told her I
2:26:55would try through the summer if she
2:26:57would go to therapy, if she would go to
2:27:00therapy. Nicole did not want to go to
2:27:02therapy. So, we split up. No problems,
2:27:05no arguments, no nothing. That week we
2:27:07attended a couple of affairs together
2:27:09for our kids. Uh we had dinner together
2:27:11a couple of nights. Uh that week I was
2:27:13told by Kathy Randa that Paula Bobby
2:27:15area was coming in town for one day. I
2:27:17surprised her at the airport, met her
2:27:19and uh we uh she wasn't dating anybody
2:27:22and we decided to give it a shot this to
2:27:25start trying to work to see if we can
2:27:27get back together. The following week,
2:27:29and this is the 30 days preceding
2:27:30Nicole's
2:27:32death, the following week, Nicole was
2:27:35ill. She had double pneumonia. I spent
2:27:37that week uh when I returned from New
2:27:39York, I believe, uh going to her house
2:27:41in the morning, bringing her her
2:27:43favorite scones and coffee. And in the
2:27:45afternoon, obviously, to do the homework
2:27:48with the kids and bring her dinner and
2:27:49see if she needed any medication. And I
2:27:52spent much of that week uh uh tending to
2:27:54Nicole. She had a birthday that week.
2:27:56And uh we talked about, you heard so
2:27:58much about this bracelet. Uh yes, I
2:28:01brought Nicole actually a cigarette
2:28:02lighter, a gold Cardier cigarette
2:28:04lighter for her birthday. Uh but uh when
2:28:06I was at her house, her kids said, "What
2:28:08did we give her?" I had a gift for Paula
2:28:10Bobby that I was going to give her to
2:28:12celebrate our anniversary. Three uh when
2:28:14we first met or first dated, which would
2:28:16have been 3 days later. One thing you'll
2:28:18see in her deposition, this piece of
2:28:20brace uh jewelry that I brought, this
2:28:22bracelet went directly sapphire and
2:28:25diamonds with uh jewelry. I had
2:28:27previously bought Paula Bobby. Totally
2:28:29not the type of jury I'd ever given
2:28:31Nicole. She even commented on, "You
2:28:33never bought me anything like that." But
2:28:34I had no gift from the kids. And uh I
2:28:37gave her that bracelet. But in any
2:28:38event, uh for the next week, uh I went
2:28:41out of town. I came back in town. I was
2:28:43hosting maybe three or 400 kids and
2:28:46their parents here at my house for my
2:28:48son's preschool. Nicole came over.
2:28:50Everyone who saw us that day saw two
2:28:52people who got along. I many of them
2:28:54would have probably thought we were
2:28:55still together. I was watching the NBA
2:28:57finals in here. Nicole came into this
2:28:59living room and laid literally across my
2:29:02lap. People were here. She went upstairs
2:29:04because she was still feeling weak and
2:29:05laid in my bed. Uh um and later on that
2:29:09night went home. For the next week,
2:29:10everything was fine with us. And then
2:29:12one night, I think I talked about this a
2:29:14little earlier. She called me. She was
2:29:16pretty upset that FA Rusnik had uh was
2:29:19attending an affair uh with us. And of
2:29:22course, Fay never told her that Fay
2:29:24insisted on going to that affair. I
2:29:27didn't like the fact that she called me
2:29:29and yelled at me. I didn't like the fact
2:29:31that my housekeeper Gigi uh came to me
2:29:34complaining that uh Nicole had uh was
2:29:37upset with her and came to her because
2:29:39she wasn't here one weekend when it was
2:29:41her weekend off. I informed her that you
2:29:42work for me, not Nicole. I had already
2:29:45uh lost my favorite housekeeper two
2:29:47months previous because Nicole came into
2:29:49this house and had a physical
2:29:50confrontation with that person. And it
2:29:52was at that time I decided that I wanted
2:29:54to pretty much cut off uh any type of
2:29:58communications with Nicole unless it had
2:30:01something to do with the kids. Uh uh the
2:30:05week of her
2:30:08death, I spoke to Nicole. She called my
2:30:11office. Uh she wanted to make sure that
2:30:14I would be in town for my kids recital
2:30:16and how many tickets that I I might
2:30:18need.
2:30:19Uh, I spoke to her later on that week
2:30:22cuz I was back east in Washington and in
2:30:24Connecticut and I just found out that
2:30:26Justin's school, his preschool was
2:30:28having a ceremony for his graduation and
2:30:30I wasn't able to attend that. Uh, of
2:30:34course, the day of her murder, I saw her
2:30:37at a recital, she saved me a seat that
2:30:40was two seats from her. I sat two seats
2:30:43from her. I spoke to her family. Other
2:30:47than asking for my ticket, I didn't
2:30:48speak to her. Uh, one of the police
2:30:50reports in this case uh pointed out that
2:30:53uh Dominique Brown stated that Nicole
2:30:56said to her, "See, OJ won't even talk to
2:30:58me." Even though you pundits are out
2:31:00there saying, "She scorned me that day
2:31:02and that was a trigger for me committing
2:31:04this crime." It was totally the other
2:31:06way around. I wasn't scorning her. I
2:31:08just didn't want to get involved in uh
2:31:10in any conversation with her at that
2:31:12time. Even though at one point a few
2:31:14times when our daughter was dancing, we
2:31:16looked at each other and sort of mouthed
2:31:18that Sydney was beautiful. Uh when that
2:31:21fair affair was over, I was outside
2:31:22talking to friends, talking to Dr.
2:31:24Fishman, teasing with Lou Brown,
2:31:27certainly not having any kind of dower
2:31:29personality, not being angry.
2:31:31Fortunately, there was a video that
2:31:33proved that. I will say this that in the
2:31:36year and a half that Nicole and I was
2:31:38apart, we never argued about any person
2:31:40that she was dating any person. In the
2:31:44month that Nicole and I was apart
2:31:46leading up to her death, no friend of
2:31:49hers will tell you that I called him
2:31:50about anything. In fact, it was
2:31:53completely the opposite. her best friend
2:31:55in this world, Cora Fishman, a person
2:31:58who was interviewed by Marcia Clark and
2:32:00Philip Vanadder about this murder, about
2:32:03Nicole's and my relationship. And as she
2:32:05spoke about our relationship, time and
2:32:08time again, Marcia would say to her,
2:32:10interrupt her and say, "Oh, you're not
2:32:13her friend. Oh, how can you say that?
2:32:15This is a woman that has not made a dime
2:32:18off this uh case. She refused to do
2:32:21anything for money. yet they tried to uh
2:32:24intimidate her and skewer what she had
2:32:26to say about Nicole's and uh my uh
2:32:30relationship. It was it was Cora that
2:32:33came to me uh roughly 10 days before
2:32:35Nicole's death and said, "OJ, you need
2:32:38to take Nicole and the kids and get out
2:32:41of LA." I do feel some guilt. I feel
2:32:44guilt because Nicole wanted to move in
2:32:45with me. She made that clear to me and
2:32:47everybody many times during that year
2:32:50from 93 to 94 and I refuse. I feel guilt
2:32:54because I didn't listen to to Cora
2:32:56Fishman that day. I feel guilt because
2:32:59uh people like FA Resnik was able to say
2:33:01to me, Nicole loves you, OJ, and you're
2:33:03back with Paula. I feel guilt about a
2:33:06lot of those things, but I do not feel
2:33:09uh guilt for the murder of Nicole Brown
2:33:11and Ron Goldman. I did not do that. I
2:33:14swear before God, I did not commit these
2:33:17crimes. And I ask you, members of the uh
2:33:21community, I don't think I'm going to
2:33:23change any of your guys' mind with this
2:33:25tape. I just want you to listen to the
2:33:27facts. I ask the media, just print the
2:33:30facts. People want to know facts, not
2:33:33skewered testimony, not lies, not
2:33:35interpretations. Uh just the facts. And
2:33:39uh I ask you all, I mean, I've been good
2:33:41to everybody. I don't think there's
2:33:42anybody out there that won't say that
2:33:44wherever they met me all over this
2:33:46country for the last 30 years, I took
2:33:48time. I treated you the way I wanted to
2:33:51be treated. My mother taught me. I knew
2:33:53religion long before Rosie Greer came to
2:33:56jail. I grew up in Evergreen Baptist
2:33:58Church. I was taught you do unto others.
2:34:00And that's what I've tried to do my
2:34:02entire life. You know, I tried to treat
2:34:04people the way I wanted to be treated.
2:34:06And I don't think there's anybody out
2:34:07there that ever met me anywhere in
2:34:09airports, in ballparks, on the street
2:34:11that I wasn't kind to you. I didn't give
2:34:13I didn't treat you the way I thought you
2:34:16wanted to be treated. Anybody who's ever
2:34:18written me, I wrote them back. Charities
2:34:20that ever called me, I always sent them
2:34:22something at my cost. I only asked you
2:34:25to give me that courtesy to treat me the
2:34:28way I treated you. And I asked the media
2:34:32to print the facts. I'll say to you once
2:34:34again, I have nothing but compassion for
2:34:36the Goldman's and for the Browns, but I
2:34:38lost just as much as you did. I lost
2:34:40more than you did, cuz I lost a person
2:34:42that I love. I've lost my life and I've
2:34:44lost my ability. I don't think so. My
2:34:47ability to to provide for the people
2:34:49around me. That's all I want to do.
2:34:51Provide for the my family, my kids, and
2:34:53give me the opportunity and a fair shake
2:34:56to say what I need to say. I listen to
2:34:59what everybody else said. I tried to do
2:35:01that with some dignity. I ask you to
2:35:03listen to me and you judge. But I swear
2:35:06to you before my God, I did not commit
2:35:10these
2:35:11crimes. Thank you for taking the time to
2:35:13listen to me.

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