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Notorious Child Killer Susan Smith Up for Parole: ‘I’d Be a Good Stepmom’ — Transcript

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0:00Whoever has my
0:04children that they please I mean please
0:08bring them home that was Susan Smith in
0:10October 1994 begging for the safe return
0:13of her two young sons who had turned out
0:16she murdered now Smith's coming up for
0:18parole and the prosecutor who put her in
0:21prison is here to say whether or not he
0:23believes she should be released thanks
0:25for joining me for Crime fix I'm Anette
0:27Levy the case of Susan Smith and her
0:30missing Sons captured the attention of
0:32the nation this was back of course
0:34before everyone had a cell phone it was
0:36before social media and the search for
0:38Smith's two sons three-year-old Michael
0:41and 14-month-old Alexander was the top
0:43story on the national news for days
0:46Smith called police in Union South
0:48Carolina and claimed a black man
0:51carjacked her and took the car with her
0:52two little boys in the back seat as you
0:55saw Smith went on National Television
0:57begging for the carjacker to bring back
0:59her children
1:00but the entire time little Michael and
1:03Alexander those poor defenseless little
1:05boys were strapped in their car seats
1:07they were dead in the backseat of their
1:10mother's car that she had let roll into
1:12the bottom of John D long Lake a jury
1:16found Smith guilty but opted to send her
1:17to prison for life instead of giving her
1:19the death penalty later this year Susan
1:22Smith will be up for parole because at
1:24the time she was sentenced life didn't
1:26mean life she would be eligible for
1:29parole after serving just 30 years since
1:32she's been in prison Susan Smith has
1:34been in some trouble she's been caught
1:36using drugs she's had sexual
1:37relationships including one with a
1:39prison guard she's lost phone and
1:41canteen privileges a number of times but
1:44hasn't been in trouble since about 2015
1:46one thing that I think is important to
1:48note Susan Smith has been in prisoned
1:50for almost 30 years and she has not
1:53earned one Educational Credit not one
1:57but she has spent a lot of time talking
1:58to people who want to date her the now
2:01defunct Outlet the messenger reported
2:04last year that Smith told one man that
2:06she thought she'd be a good stepmom and
2:09that man was quoted as saying back to
2:11her you'd be great babe prosecutors
2:14argued at trial that Susan Smith killed
2:16her sons because a man she was having an
2:18affair with told her in a letter that he
2:20didn't want children Smith meanwhile
2:23claimed she had a psychotic breakdown
2:25and had garnered some sympathy because
2:27her stepfather had sexually abused her
2:29as a te teenager joining me is somebody
2:32who knows more about Susan Smith's case
2:35than anybody he's Tommy Pope he
2:37prosecuted Susan Smith and put her in
2:39prison Tommy thanks for coming on um
2:43take me back yeah thank you uh take me
2:46back to 1994 and getting that call that
2:50these two little boys were missing sure
2:54so I was the elected solicitor that's
2:56our district attorney here in South
2:58Carolina I had two uh counties I had
3:00York which was my larger more affluent
3:03County and then Union County which was
3:04my smaller County uh we would have court
3:07about once a month in in Union and it
3:09really it was just kind of a small you
3:11know kind of population decreasing M
3:15toown you know the textiles had kind of
3:17moved out and so uh I had been elected
3:20let's see I got elected 92 so I'd been
3:23elected just a few years I was 30 let's
3:27see 30 years old when I got elected um
3:30always laughed I said I got elected
3:32really to tackle the backlog our our
3:34circuit had the worst backlog in the
3:36state and I said I don't know people saw
3:38Merit in me but thought I couldn't do
3:40any worse than the other guy because we
3:41had the worst backlog the state so I got
3:44elected in ' 92 and was really kind of
3:47focusing on on dealing with the backlog
3:49and again Union was smaller it didn't
3:51really ever have a problem um actually
3:54when this case came up you know the
3:55initial report of the carjacker I've
3:58been a law enforcement officer before
4:00I'd worked at the South Carolina law
4:01enforcement Division and so when I heard
4:04the carjacker story it just didn't
4:06really Jive I was staying in touch with
4:08the sled agents they would call me I was
4:11actually in trial over in York County I
4:14tell people I was doing the Lord's work
4:15I was uh Prosecuting the preacher who
4:18had embezzled from the daycare center so
4:20I was I was doing the heavy lifting over
4:22there but I got a call most nights on
4:24the way the investigation was going I
4:26think it went like nine days with Susan
4:28pleading to the media and and all this
4:30yeah and then I remember I had just
4:32finished that case and I got a call that
4:35um that the boys had been located in
4:38John D long lake so I got in the car and
4:40went down to John D long Lake that night
4:43when you get to the lake and you see
4:45that vehicle pulled out of the water and
4:48these these poor little boys I mean
4:50these are the most defenseless I mean 14
4:53months three years old right they're in
4:56their car seats and they've been placed
4:59in Lake by their mother most the most
5:01defenseless of victims I I just can't
5:04even imagine yeah it you know it's I
5:07mean I've been to In in my law
5:09enforcement career and in my prosecution
5:10career I've been to a lot of crime
5:12scenes and I went there
5:15intentionally because you know we' all
5:17already kind of dealt with the the nine
5:19days media pressure so you knew it was
5:21going to be OJ Simpson was going on at
5:23the time and this was you know i' had a
5:25lot of you know big cases but media wise
5:28this one you know Susan Smith herself
5:30had kind of drawn it along you know
5:32crying about the babies and needing help
5:35so I went down for one obviously to to
5:38see what was occurring but two so that
5:41later on if I got tired or I got worn
5:44out and you know didn't want to proceed
5:47I'd remember what it was about and so
5:49what I saw that night was a car pulled
5:51out with the two boys still in the car
5:54seats I saw grown men crying um and and
5:58again I think it was as much of of the
6:01tragedy as the Heartbreak because people
6:04been searching for those kids that
6:05people been searching for those
6:07carjackers working working working
6:09hoping to recover those kids and then to
6:12see it come to that it it was it was
6:14devastating I always remember because I
6:17had a young son at the time the
6:19difficulty we go through as parents
6:22swapping those car seats I'm GNA take
6:23them out of my car and put them in your
6:25car and then we're going to get the kids
6:26in and you know it's really a lot of
6:28work to keep safe and I did see kind of
6:31some raw irony that you know the very
6:35devices that are they supposed to
6:37protect them ultimately with the
6:39Implements of their death yeah um you
6:43know little Michael three years old
6:45Alexander 14 months you know their
6:48father believed this story that a black
6:51man had
6:53carjacked uh his wife and kidnapped the
6:56children taking the vehicle maybe didn't
6:58want to kidnap children but had
7:00certainly taken the G vehicle and the
7:04one thing that gets me and I remember
7:05this I remember this very vividly I mean
7:08I remember this this was back before the
7:10internet really before social media this
7:12was a huge story this was on the news
7:14every night and people were just like my
7:17god um you know I they I hope they find
7:20these children I think a red flag though
7:22is this whole story about you know a
7:24black man uh carjacked me stole my car
7:28and took my children I feel like and
7:30whenever I hear that you know I've I've
7:32heard that over and over in other cases
7:34too it almost takes me back to like to
7:36Kill a Mocking Bird it sounds so absurd
7:39um was that in any way a red flag for
7:41you with this case well and initially um
7:46I really thought like I said I was in
7:48trial in the other case but I I wasn't I
7:50mean not that I didn't care about the
7:52kids being returned but I wasn't overly
7:54concerned that what she was saying
7:56happened had really happened I actually
7:58thought perhaps it some type of domestic
8:00situation you know she was arranged from
8:02her husband a little bit maybe she hides
8:05the kids out with her cousin you know
8:07down at Myrtle Beach or something like
8:09that you know to create some drama um
8:12because from a law enforcement
8:13standpoint there's a reason you call
8:15them a car Jacker you know it's not a
8:18woman Jacker a b you that's a kidnapper
8:20you know it's not a baby Jacker it's
8:23their hierarchy is they're normally
8:25looking for the car then they may be
8:27looking for money then maybe a female to
8:30assault so it's so far down the line
8:34that that you know then when she tells
8:35their story that he tells he stops long
8:38enough for her to get out but says I
8:40don't have time to let the kids out
8:44makes no sense you know like you said
8:46you've heard other cases where
8:48inadvertently you know I steal your car
8:50not realizing the baby's asleep in the
8:53back you know you've seen some cases
8:54like that and very often those cases
8:56they put the baby out at the the gas
8:59station or something and you know take
9:00off with the car so uh it really wasn't
9:04over concerning I don't think it really
9:07hit home until we found the boys to
9:09realize that this was much bigger in a
9:12horrible horrible way than we ever
9:14thought when did you all realize or when
9:17did the sled agents realize that maybe
9:19Susan was not being honest about what
9:22had happened you know in a strange twist
9:25and like you said back then you know we
9:27didn't have all the different new
9:29sources as we can but she was drawn from
9:32the
9:33beginning um to the opportunity and the
9:36attention of being on the media I
9:38remember I had raw footage from um
9:41Channel 7 out of Spartanburg that was
9:43the first people on the scene to the
9:44house she went to they had called David
9:47to come to the scene and they're about
9:49to do the video the camera lights are
9:51off that was back in the old days when
9:53you had a big boy like me carrying the
9:55cameras and then he had the anchor
9:56person doing the work so so um the lady
10:00the acre person says something to the
10:02effect so David and Susan are standing
10:04in front of them ready for the camera
10:05and she says okay you know when the
10:08lights come on then I'm gonna ask you
10:09you know your name and then what
10:10happened whatever right before the
10:12lights come on Susan looks at David and
10:15kind of Giggles like it's exciting like
10:18they're gonna be on TV you know what I
10:20mean and and of course poor David looks
10:22like like a deer in the headlights he
10:24looks like a guy who was just told your
10:26kids have been stolen and so going
10:29through it there were always kind of
10:31little instances but I was going to say
10:33the media
10:35intensity um you know because ultimately
10:37she was on every National media you know
10:39interviewed like the Today Show and all
10:41that stuff and she was fine when she was
10:44getting the accolades and the and the
10:46sympathy um when they started
10:48questioning her a little bit she started
10:51you know cracking that's from a and so I
10:53think that media pressure helped and
10:55then there were just slowly
10:57inconsistencies the other thing is law
10:59enforcement always runs a dual
11:00investigation if you tell me an alien
11:03took your child then I'm going to go
11:04work on the alien case too but I'm also
11:07going to check the logical things like
11:09family members and so it it you know
11:12sometimes people say that's offensive
11:14but you have to check out the victim's
11:16family too to kind of check that off the
11:18list fortunately they kept that working
11:21and ultimately it proved they were
11:23looking in the right spot you saw the
11:25death penalty um but she ended up
11:28getting life
11:29so do you know do you have any inkling
11:32as to why why that was I mean I I I'm
11:35not asking you to make a statement on
11:37you know the morality of the death
11:39penalty or anything like that but I mean
11:42this is a very heinous case and I I know
11:44there was a lot out there at the time
11:46about uh the fact that I think Susan's
11:49stepfather had been engaged in some type
11:52of sexual relationship with her she she
11:54may have been a victim of sexual abuse
11:56but there was some also some questions
11:58about I don't know if it was consensual
12:01and if it was continuing I mean I that's
12:03a whole different kind of conversation
12:06so this this is a woman who's got some
12:08major issues yes and so I'll give you
12:11kind of kind of my view because it's
12:13funny you know um OJ was going on OJ
12:17started before it ended after and we got
12:19a lot of credit South Carolina as a
12:21whole because they think anybody with an
12:23accent like this you know it's going to
12:25be like Dukes a hazard or something that
12:27you know when we try a case and so you
12:29know we we had a tight window and and
12:32and the case went well um as far as the
12:36death penalty itself and I know you said
12:37you're not you know trying to get too
12:39deep I always said you know the defense
12:41David Brook they did a tremendous job
12:44their whole goal is to make sure it is
12:46not the death penalty you know that's
12:48they do death penalty defense all the
12:49time and I always say I'm not the yin to
12:52their Yang I don't wake up you know
12:54bloodthirsty every morning going who can
12:56I execute you know I I just view it more
12:59almost like a military officer if we
13:02have the death penalty in South Carolina
13:04and I I do believe in the death penalty
13:06but if we have it then you got to have
13:08people with the courage and the strength
13:09to work to apply it well in this
13:13circumstance I tried to treat Susan the
13:15same way I think anybody else should
13:18have been treated in that circumstance
13:19if we didn't have the death penalty
13:21whatever the the most stringent penalty
13:24was you know whatever we would have had
13:27that's what she deserved I also thought
13:29if the black man had done it they would
13:32have run me out of office if I didn't
13:34seek the death penalty if David Smith
13:36hadn't done had have committed the crime
13:39same deal so I just thought Susan needed
13:41to be treated in in the same manner the
13:45the difficulty there is it makes people
13:47uncomfortable to think one a mother
13:49would do that two somebody that looks
13:51like our coworker our sister you know
13:54it's almost easier for us to accept if
13:56it is the bad guy because you can figure
13:58out how it won't happen to you and I
14:00because every day I left work my wife
14:03was home with with our child you know
14:05and I never feared for my child's life
14:08so um that was a reason that in my time
14:12with David Smith you know convinced me
14:14that going forward even though it been
14:16easier to kind of pull the plug and not
14:18seek the death penalty going forward was
14:20you know the right move from the jury
14:23themselves one back then until 1996 um
14:28jurors were not told that life did not
14:31mean life in 1996 in South Carolina it
14:33started meaning you know if you got a
14:35life sentence you served life um back
14:38then it was parole eligibility for 30
14:41years and that's hence we're talking
14:42about it now 30 years later so many of
14:45the jurors thought that if she was in
14:47jail she would be remorseful think about
14:50the boys and that life sentence would be
14:53you know more appropriate if she was
14:55remorseful maybe I'd agree but you've
14:57seen from her contact in prison you know
15:00sex with guards and other thing that
15:01she's been focused on Susan you know not
15:04that the second thing I'd say and again
15:06I give the defense credit um we did not
15:10change venue we stayed in Union County
15:13for the jury and and pretty much
15:15everybody knows everybody so there was
15:17also the component if I if I give your
15:20loved one the death penalty I'm going to
15:22see you at the grocery store you know
15:24later and I think that put some pressure
15:26on jurors too you mentioned her conduct
15:29in prison and and you know prison's
15:31supposed to be about Rehabilitation and
15:34that that's a whole another conversation
15:36too I mean sometimes people are just
15:38kind of warehoused and sometimes they
15:40get better sometimes they get worse but
15:42it's also up to them to you know take
15:45part in some programming or something to
15:47to better themselves and and you're
15:49right she's gotten in trouble with with
15:52for having sex with a prison guard um
15:54you know I think she's had some other
15:56relationships when she's been in there
15:57maybe with some inmates
15:59uh she's having she has suitors in there
16:03you know she has people in there she's
16:05having these conversations on her tablet
16:07or what have you and uh I think I read
16:09one where the guy said that she'd be a
16:11great mom you know you'd be a great mom
16:14babe you know and I just can't even
16:16imagine that like I I think Susan Smith
16:18needs to be kept as far away from
16:20children as humanly possible um I mean
16:23are are you going to oppose her her
16:26release when she comes up for parole
16:29because I I can't imagine I I'm not
16:32seeing many signs she hasn't gotten into
16:33big trouble recently but I'm not seeing
16:35many signs that show me that there's
16:37been a whole lot of Rehabilitation here
16:40I think you you assessed it well I I
16:42think you know if you look at a record
16:45over the 30 years I mean I've seen much
16:47much worse you know Behavior wise
16:49assaults on the guards you know
16:51Contraband things of that nature um I I
16:54think to me her her behavior is a
16:57reflection of who she
16:59is which is really Susan's always been
17:03about Susan I mean all the way even
17:05going back to you know laughing about
17:07we're going to be on TV or the sled
17:10agent taking her to the polygraph and
17:12her flirting with them saying um it's a
17:15beautiful day I wish you and I were
17:16riding to the beach instead of doing
17:18this or you know she's just I mean it's
17:20the way she's wired she's always been
17:23about how things affect her I mean and
17:25nothing more telling than you know what
17:28happened with the the kids but um so I
17:33am try not to be vindictive about parole
17:36but I try to kind of call it the way I
17:38see it and so normally what I tell the
17:40parole board is I believe in truth and
17:43sentencing um the jury gave her life
17:46under the belief she would be serving in
17:48life and that that's what she needs to
17:51do um it'll be interesting I assume
17:54we'll hear from David Smith I always
17:55tell people you know ultimately cameras
17:58where excluded from the courtroom and
18:01you're kind of darned if you do darned
18:03if you don't if you're a prosecutor if I
18:05act like I want cameras then it's
18:07because I'm a glory Hound if I act like
18:09I don't then I've got something to hide
18:12but in this circumstance I said
18:14selfishly the only thing I wish
18:17everybody in the country everybody in
18:19the world could have seen David Smith's
18:21testimony because you know by the time
18:24we got ready to try we were ready right
18:26after the first of the year this
18:27happened kind of around Halloween and
18:30the defense said they needed more time
18:32and what they did they kind of worked
18:34the public opinion and that's when you
18:36started hearing Susan the victim you
18:37know was the victim of The Stepfather
18:39the victim of the husband the victim of
18:41the boyfriend or whatever and so by the
18:44time we get around to trial I was having
18:46people question why I was even trying
18:48poor Susan and I always said when David
18:52Smith took the stand in the penalty
18:55phase of death penalty case what I would
18:57always do is basically bring the victims
19:01back to life in other words I would talk
19:03about the the good times you know when
19:05he David talked about Michael couldn't
19:08say uh Dalmatian he liked 101 diametr
19:12you know and he would tell stories tell
19:14story about take them to the park tell
19:15stories sadly or ironically how the boys
19:18didn't like to take bath they didn't
19:20like to get wet which was you know odd
19:22in and of itself but by the time David
19:25got through I would then take him
19:28basically I bring bring the loved ones
19:29alive and then go to their death again
19:32and so David went through that whole
19:34range of emotions and I said if anybody
19:37could have seen that man testify because
19:40you know it would have been easier for
19:41him to walk away too but if anybody
19:43could have seen David Smith testified
19:45they'd know why we were in that
19:46courtroom that day yeah most definitely
19:49um what a horrible case uh Tommy Pope we
19:52will keep an eye on it and see what
19:53happens at that hearing in November
19:55thank you so much for coming on we
19:57appreciate it absolutely absolutely
19:59thank you for your time today and that's
20:00it for this episode of crime fix I'm
20:02Anette Levy thanks for being with us
20:04we'll see you back here next time

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