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"No One Will F* With You"- FBI Agent's 6 Psychological Tricks to Shut Down a Narcissist | Chris Voss — Transcript

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0:00The narcissist is a sociopath. They want
0:02to know that what they said sunk in.
0:06And any indicator that you give them of
0:08that, then they're feeling control.
0:13They might be hoping that you fight back
0:18because then the fight back is more
0:20domination, is more pounding. They enjoy
0:23the pounding.
0:26And by and large, if it's a bad
0:28relationship, you just need to
0:34>> You've spent over two decades in the FBI
0:36negotiating with terrorists, criminals,
0:38and some of the most manipulative people
0:40on the planet. So, how do you handle and
0:42outsmart someone like a narcissist or a
0:44psychopath who lacks complete empathy
0:46and only cares about themselves? Well,
0:48when you come to Earth, when you're
0:50born, regardless of gender, ethnicity,
0:53anything, diet, religion, moment you
0:56arrive on planet Earth, the hypothesis,
0:58which I believe in, is you come
1:00basically with a set of core emotions.
1:03Anger, surprise, joy, disgust, fear.
1:06Then what creates a sociopath, a
1:08narcissist, narcissist, any of these bad
1:10types is then their experience with life
1:13as they evolve.
1:15>> They're still born with core emotions.
1:17that that doesn't change. FBI, they were
1:20always trying to figure out what created
1:21a sociopath, what created a serial
1:23killer. And one of the theories was age
1:26five or six, they do something wrong.
1:29They're severely punished.
1:31A month later, they do some same thing
1:33wrong, they're not punished at all. What
1:35they learned was there are no rules as
1:38they go through life that there are no
1:39rules. And that creates feelings. The
1:42distinction between emotions and
1:43feelings.
1:45Even a narcissist or sociopaths are born
1:48with core emotions. They have emotional
1:50vulnerabilities. They lack certain types
1:52of feelings. They don't feel guilt for
1:55whatever reason.
1:56>> They don't feel sympathy,
1:59but they still feel anger, fear,
2:01disgust,
2:03happiness,
2:05>> joy, the core that you're born with. And
2:08they still have neurochemicals.
2:10So these are the tools that a hostage
2:12negotiator looks as I'm using my skills
2:15in hostage negotiation or in business or
2:18personal relationships to start to
2:20diagnose which one you are.
2:23>> Like if I you know a classic is the
2:26forced empathy from the other side. My
2:28son labeled that as forced empathy
2:30because if you and I are in interaction
2:32you're saying something to me it's going
2:33to be tough for me to do and I say how
2:35am I supposed to do that? Seven to eight
2:37times out of ten there's a 180 degree
2:40shift in your perspective because I
2:42forced you to take a look at me and
2:45consider me as a human being. If I say
2:48to you, "How am I supposed to do that?"
2:50and you say to me, "That's your problem.
2:54Now I know what I'm dealing with."
2:57One of the most common reactions to how
2:59am I supposed to do that is somebody
3:00says, "You know, you're right. I could
3:01see how that is a problem for you. Uh
3:04what if I offer you this?" and they
3:06instantly go to collaboration.
3:09That's the majority 70 to 80% of the
3:13time. So, you got to know which ones are
3:15not.
3:16>> And the, you know, that's your problem.
3:20Now, you're telling me either either
3:22you're not collaborative as a person,
3:24period,
3:26or you're not collaborative under these
3:27circumstances.
3:29Now, you might be backed into a corner
3:31in a business negotiation. You might be
3:33under massive pressure.
3:36I got to know, are you under pressure or
3:39are you just a bad player? So, my first
3:42response is going to be, sounds like
3:45you're under a lot of pressure
3:47cuz I need to know if you're under
3:49pressure.
3:51Now, if you are, you're going to
3:53immediately resonate with that.
3:55Immediately, it's an involuntary
3:57response.
3:59If you slough it off, then I know you're
4:02using the attack as gaslighting, you
4:05know, narcissism, any of those things
4:08that are indicators of a bad player.
4:10>> Mhm.
4:11>> You talk about the illusion of control.
4:13And so, talk to me about how you can use
4:16that in a conversation to somewhat allow
4:19the other person to feel like they have
4:21the power, but actually you do.
4:23>> Difference. There's so much power in
4:25difference. And I know somebody needs to
4:27be in control. First of all, the what
4:29and how questions, they feel
4:31differential when you ask somebody that.
4:35And in point of fact, you got an
4:37opponent on the other side you want to
4:39exhaust.
4:42>> And what and how questions call for deep
4:45thinking,
4:47which is exhausting.
4:50The other side doesn't know you're doing
4:51that, Tom. What do you want me to do?
4:54How do you want me to react?
4:58What do you want from me?
5:01Innocently asked. But when you got a bad
5:05actor on the other side, passive
5:07aggression is an acceptable tool
5:10>> cuz they're probably using some passive
5:11aggression on you.
5:14So difference is a way to hide how
5:16you're trying to wear them out.
5:19>> And they they feel in control.
5:22People love to be asked what and how
5:24questions because a control freak wants
5:28to tell you what to do, wants to tell
5:30you how to do it. It makes them feel
5:33large and in charge. And we stumbled
5:36across this with kidnappers globally.
5:41Doesn't matter what kind of kidnapper
5:42you could think of. There was a lone
5:45kidnapper serial killer on the other
5:47side on a kidnapping the Philippines.
5:50That is a bad guy.
5:54What? Now questions made him feel in
5:56control.
5:57>> What were you asking him?
5:59>> It was a great case because the uh I'm
6:01coaching you in a in a kidnapping. The
6:04secret to kidnapping is coaching a
6:06family member because then you can hide
6:08your your skills. I'm hitting him with
6:10stealth skills.
6:12And the brother ridiculously coachable
6:14guy. So, we start out basically the what
6:19and how questions, you know, how am I
6:21supposed to pay if I don't know my
6:22brother's alive?
6:24How am I supposed to pay if I don't know
6:26you're going to let him go? This guy had
6:28this elaborate scheme
6:31of wanted a daily predeem to keep the
6:34son alive
6:36>> while he researched the family.
6:39So, I'm coaching this this guy, uh,
6:43Aaron,
6:45and I said, "Look, here's the problem.
6:48If we give in on the daily rate, which
6:50your family could pay easily, family's
6:52got a lot of dough. Mom's saying, "Pay,
6:54I want to keep my my son alive." Like,
6:57no, no, no, no. That's the way he's
6:58researching you guys. The more easily
7:00you pay, the longer you pay, the more
7:02money you have, it's going to go on
7:03forever.
7:05>> So, we, you know, we got to flip it on
7:06him. How do you know that? By the way,
7:08once you say yes to one thing, does that
7:11then inevitably open up the gate for it
7:14to be yes for a long period of time?
7:16>> Absolutely.
7:18And so then, how do you avoid saying
7:20yes, but you don't say no. It's usually
7:23with a how or what question
7:25>> because it throws right back on the
7:26other side. So anyway, we're coaching
7:28the brother and on his own he says, and
7:31we don't know at the time the guy's a
7:33murderer. We It ends up being uh a
7:37rescue and a capture of the bad guy at
7:38the end. That's how we found out it was
7:40a lone kidnapper serial killer.
7:43He says to him, "When we run out of
7:44money paying the daily rate,
7:48what's going to happen?"
7:51And there's this really long pause on
7:53the other end of the line.
7:55And the guy says, "It'll be all right."
7:58So I got a team in country. They're
8:00giving me blowby-blow. I'm still back in
8:02DC. They say, "We just we just had this
8:05call. We think it was good, but we don't
8:08know what it means."
8:10>> I start doing a happy dance because I'm
8:12like, "He just promised not to kill our
8:14hostage. He doesn't know that he said
8:16that,
8:18but that's in essence of what we got."
8:19So, we got this dude on the ropes
8:22and he was a really bad guy. He was he
8:24was he was a killer. He was a murderer.
8:26So what do you do in those scenarios
8:28then when you're trying to negotiate
8:30with somebody and they are nefarious and
8:32so they don't mind lying, cheating,
8:35saying whatever they like to get them.
8:36So in that scenario, even if he said,
8:38"Don't worry, I won't kill him." How do
8:40you know it's true?
8:41>> We've been talking to him long enough.
8:44>> It's the way a lie detector works.
8:47Lie detector detects how you tell the
8:50truth if you tell the truth.
8:53And so the longer you talk to somebody,
8:55your first question is, do they tell the
8:57truth at all? And you pick it up by
8:59innocent things.
9:01How long would you drive? What' you have
9:03for breakfast?
9:05Um, what's your favorite thing?
9:10Because small talk, properly designed,
9:13begins to tell you whether or not
9:15somebody tells the truth. Mhm.
9:17>> Now, they may not tell the truth at all,
9:21but and that's good information to have.
9:24Then the next thing really is everybody
9:25feels safe when they say no.
9:28So, if I get you to say no,
9:32I need to know whether or not you
9:33prepared in advance. Like, did you do X?
9:37No. That's prepared. No,
9:40>> you did it. You expect to be braced on
9:42it. How do you say no when you're
9:46prepped for it? But I say something
9:49like, you know,
9:51boy, you love baseball. No, I don't love
9:52baseball. Now, that's an honest no.
9:56Based on delivery, I know I need to know
9:58which one I got. So, even if you don't
10:01tell the truth, since you feel safe when
10:04you say no, you'll say no right away to
10:07something, and I need to know the
10:08difference between the two. Mhm. So, why
10:11would you want somebody to say no?
10:14>> In general terms, all humans feel safe
10:17and protected when they say no. I'm
10:19going to get your most unguarded
10:21response. It's mostly nurture in that
10:25everybody is taught get the other person
10:26to say yes. The yes momentum, momentum
10:30selling, every person that's ever had
10:33any sort of sales training, persuasion
10:35training,
10:36and then has become a global phenomenon.
10:39You sell whatever your commodity is by
10:41getting somebody to say yes and then you
10:42get a succession of yeses and then you
10:44got them at the end. Now there since uh
10:47every salesperson has been taught that
10:49every human being on earth has had it
10:51done to them. So you can count on
10:54somebody being yes bad. Flip side is
10:57you're taught then if yes is commitment
11:00then no is protection.
11:03And so you when you when you say no you
11:07feel safe and protected. So you calm
11:08down. Your guard your guard doesn't go
11:10off. This is so universal. Tim Ross and
11:15is a minister who said he changed his
11:18call to Jesus
11:20from yes to no.
11:22>> Oh,
11:22>> because if you're a religious leader,
11:26and I know this is going to sound
11:28disrespectful to all religious leaders,
11:31but you're selling the hereafter. You're
11:33selling spirituality. Do you want to
11:35have closer relationship with Jesus? Do
11:37you want to be able to sleep good at
11:38night? Do you want this? Do you want
11:39that? If you want that, come on forward.
11:42And he switched to, are you against
11:45having a closer relationship with Jesus?
11:48Are you against? Because these are no
11:50warranted questions.
11:51>> That's so insane to think about because
11:54as a woman, one of the things that I've
11:57been really kind of hopping on about in
11:58my adulthood is the ability to say no
12:00because I say yes to everything. And
12:02what's incredible is as you were
12:03talking, I was like, "Wow, it does give
12:04you the illusion of power. It makes me
12:06feel like I am in control. So when you
12:08come to me and I say no and if you're
12:10doing it in the technique that you're
12:12saying is I'm completely unaware of what
12:15you're doing.
12:15>> Right. Right. And then and the other
12:18nice thing about it is I haven't
12:19necessarily got a commitment from you.
12:21>> Mhm.
12:22>> But if you have obstacles after you've
12:24said no, you'll share them with me
12:27because you don't feel like you're
12:29digging yourself into a hole. And
12:31unfortunately, after you've said yes,
12:32you think everything that you share
12:36>> digs you further into commitment.
12:39And so if there are obstacles to where
12:41we're going, I want to know it.
12:43>> I I don't want you to feel that you were
12:46bamboozled or talked into anything. It's
12:48not going to stick.
12:50And I do need to know the obstacles
12:52because they're going to get in the way
12:53of us collaborating. So if I say, "Is
12:55this a ridiculous idea?" You'll say,
12:57"No, it's not ridiculous, but here are
12:58the issues." Mhm.
12:59>> And then you lay them out to me.
13:01>> I'm going to go back to a lot of my
13:02community are unfortunately have dealt
13:04with really bad actors. So, do these
13:07still work on people who are narcissists
13:09or psychopaths?
13:11>> All right, guys. We'll be right back
13:12with Chris. But for one second, if
13:14you're struggling to build your
13:15confidence, to set boundaries, to stand
13:17up for yourself, whether that's in your
13:19relationship or in business or with your
13:20family, and you don't feel like you have
13:23a voice, then you've come to the right
13:24channel. Smash the subscribe button down
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13:28single time an episode comes out. Let's
13:30build our confidence together. So, smash
13:32that subscribe button. Now, back to the
13:34episode.
13:36>> Nothing works all the time.
13:38>> So, when you've got a couple different
13:40things to try,
13:43it's not that it failed. It gave you
13:44different information.
13:47Now, narcissist sociopaths, they still
13:50have some emotions. They still have the
13:52core emotions.
13:54they're still emotionally vulnerable in
13:56certain ways.
13:58And so then you just need to use an
14:00oriented question, a how or what
14:02question, a label or a mirror to begin
14:06to give you a clear picture of what they
14:09respond to
14:11and um what works.
14:12>> What's the label in the mirror if
14:14explaining?
14:15>> The label is uh seems like you're angry
14:19>> and that won't escalate somebody who's
14:21already angry and a psychopath. So
14:23depending upon how they see you,
14:25>> oh,
14:27>> it may be more necessary to say, "I know
14:30you're angry."
14:33Because sometimes it seems like your
14:35angry is tentative.
14:38>> It usually works best if we don't have
14:41lots of relationship time. But if you
14:44don't want me to be tentative, you want
14:45me to know, then you say, "I know you're
14:48angry." Or, "It's clear you're angry."
14:51And in a relationship
14:54with somebody who's attacking me with
14:56anger,
14:58they're gonna probably want you to say,
15:00"It's clear I've made you angry. It's
15:03clear
15:05I've done something wrong."
15:08Especially when anger isn't manipulation
15:11because they're yelling at you because
15:12they want to feel in control. They want
15:13to they're yelling at you because they
15:15want you to feel I've done something
15:16wrong. Now, the mere act of formulating
15:19that in your head
15:22actually helps you get your feet back
15:23under you. You have to stabilize to some
15:26degree to even say it
15:29and that's why it's hardest at the
15:32beginning
15:34and then it begins momentum. So, that's
15:37a label. Now, mirror just repeating one
15:40to threeish words
15:42of exactly what they said.
15:44>> What do you mean? Give me an example.
15:45>> Give you an example. Ah,
15:49>> see. And how did you feel when I did
15:50that?
15:53>> You wanted to respond.
15:54>> Yeah. And I felt like you were listening
15:56enough that you wanted to engage and ask
15:58me a question about it.
15:59>> Yeah. Yeah. Even Even when you see it
16:02coming, like people mirror me on a
16:04regular basis
16:06>> and I like it. Now, here's a critical
16:08factor with a mirror. If you've listened
16:10versus heard,
16:13if you've listened, when I say
16:14something, you either comprehended it or
16:17you're curious about it.
16:19I need to hear that in your tone.
16:23So, I said, "Give you an example." That
16:26showed you that I comprehended what you
16:28said.
16:30Now, if I go, "Give an example."
16:33That means I'm curious about what you
16:35said. Either way, I had to process it.
16:39There are some people that do mirroring
16:41with a flat tone and the tone indicates
16:43no processing at all. I run into a guy
16:45on a street that's been studied I'm com
16:48familiar with. Bump into him on a street
16:50in Brooklyn a couple weeks ago and he
16:52mirrored me and it was a flat affect
16:55and I thought all right so that annoyed
16:57me. What about that annoyed me?
17:00And I said dude you you're you're
17:02showing no comprehension at all.
17:04>> You actually said that too.
17:05>> Yeah. And he said, "No comprehension at
17:07all with no with another flat a effect."
17:11>> And I said, "Man, look, um, you're
17:14mirroring me and it's annoying me." He
17:17said, "Well, I don't even know I'm doing
17:18it." Yes, you do. I'm trying to help you
17:20get better.
17:22>> But he's gotten into such a habit of a
17:24flat affect. I I realized after the fact
17:26like, "Why did my skill on me bother
17:30me?" And I realized his tone indicated
17:33neither comprehension nor curiosity.
17:37And when I talk, I want I want to know
17:38that what I said sinks in.
17:40>> The narcissist a sociopath.
17:43They want to know that what they said
17:45sunk in.
17:48And at any indicator that you give them
17:51of that,
17:54then some of the goals are beginning to
17:56be met
17:57and feel in control.
18:00They might be hoping that you fight back
18:03because then the fight back is more
18:05domination. It's more pounding. They
18:07enjoy the pounding. So, it's it's it's
18:11giving them the illusion of control and
18:13taking away. You know, if they're
18:15predatory, that's predatory behavior.
18:18You're not running from them anymore.
18:21You're not fighting back. They kind of
18:22don't know what to do with that if
18:24you're just listening and comprehending
18:26or you're curious. How am I failing you?
18:30And the way I said that was curious
18:34>> and differential like I want
18:37to I want to I want to please you.
18:39>> Yeah.
18:40>> So the tone there's there's some real
18:42magic in the tone once you start to
18:43listen to it. I'm getting the upper hand
18:46invisibly.
18:48>> Yeah.
18:48>> Ah the upper hand invisibly.
18:50>> Yeah.
18:51>> Oh that's so good. Um okay. Talk to me
18:53about the two most powerful words that
18:55somebody can say to transform a
18:57conversation. And the question is, would
19:00a bad actor, narcissist, or psychopath
19:02also fall in that trap?
19:04>> Yeah. Well, that's right. If you get a
19:07that's right out of somebody, they feel
19:09hurt.
19:11They feel you got it. You know, you want
19:14me to obey you because you think that's
19:17the role of a wife
19:20to to obey.
19:24That's right.
19:26Suddenly you get it.
19:29You realize now you're getting them.
19:32They're feeling heard. They're feeling
19:33obeyed. They're feeling commanded.
19:36Now, the interesting thing about what I
19:38just said, I didn't agree with any of
19:39it.
19:40>> That's true.
19:42>> Which you never notice.
19:44>> No, I didn't at all.
19:46>> And that's really like the magic of real
19:49empathy.
19:51Like the other side has no idea you
19:53didn't agree. They feel heard.
19:57They feel obeyed.
19:59And then you're back to feelings.
20:02>> And you're you're starting to trigger
20:04the feelings.
20:06>> And that's what you want them to feel.
20:08>> Yeah. Well, I want I want to see how far
20:10I'm going to get to start with.
20:11>> Oh, yeah.
20:12>> Was is the feeling of in being in
20:14control what they're really after?
20:16>> Oh.
20:17>> In quote normal collaborative
20:20negotiations, we believe there's three
20:22types. assertive analyst and
20:23accommodator. Fight, flight, make
20:25friends,
20:26>> caveman response to threat.
20:29Each type has something more important
20:31than the agreement. So, what I'm driving
20:33with on a narcissist is there's probably
20:35something more important than agreement.
20:36It's probably feeling of being in
20:38control. Assertive wants to feel
20:41respected.
20:43They want to feel respected and heard.
20:46I'm a naturalb born assertive. You make
20:48me feel respected and heard and I
20:50suddenly get collaborative.
20:52Because being respected and heard is
20:54more important than anything else.
20:57>> Accommodator is hope oriented, tends to
21:00be very relationship oriented, very
21:02optimistic.
21:04The only way you really turn an
21:05accommodator off is if they feel there's
21:07no relationship ever to be had ever
21:09again. Now, why should they talk to you?
21:11Because they're about they're about the
21:12long-term relationship. Hopeful
21:14opportunities. It's more important than
21:16an agreement. I don't care if we agree.
21:18I care if we have a relationship.
21:21analyst. Analyst is after data,
21:23information. I don't care if we agree. I
21:26just want to know if I got all the
21:28information.
21:29Each one of those things, they have
21:31something more important than the deal.
21:32Now, the narcissist, the sociopath.
21:36First, you want to find out if being
21:38heard and feeling in control is enough.
21:43If it is, bang, you're there.
21:44>> How would you test that?
21:46>> You start getting that's right. Go dead
21:48silent. see what the follow on behavior
21:50is.
21:51>> Continued diagnostic. Get let me gather
21:53more information.
21:55If it's not, I've hit a milestone, but I
21:58haven't hit the goal.
22:01>> So now I need to know what the goal is.
22:02You don't know what the goal is till
22:03you've hit a few milestones. Let them
22:05feel safe in control. Let them feel like
22:07they have the upper hand. Now I'm going
22:09to find out what's going on. ongoing
22:11victimization from a predatory person,
22:14which is what a narcissist
22:16and a sociopath are.
22:19You need to know what the secondary goal
22:21is. And by and large, if it's a bad
22:24relationship, you probably just need to
22:27start getting some opening to think and
22:29plan and get out.
22:32Crisis hotline last century when I
22:36volunteered to start this whole journey,
22:38their analogy was quicks. Somebody's in
22:40the quicksand, you don't get them out of
22:42it by getting into the quicksand with
22:44them. You got to stay out of the
22:45quicksand.
22:47So, in bad relationships, there's this
22:49quicksand downward spiral that people
22:51just get caught up in.
22:54You just need enough time to think to
22:56start to plan to get out because you got
22:57to get out. Easy to say, hard to do. But
23:00if it's a little at a time, just like
23:02you got in, let yourself get out a
23:05little at a time.
23:06>> Wow, that's so good. Coming up. I don't
23:09advocate this in normal relationships,
23:12but when you got a bad actor on the
23:14other side, then this stuff is fair
23:16game.
23:18What up, my homie? Okay, can we talk
23:19about something that still carries a bit
23:21of shame? Most women don't want to own
23:23their pleasure. We're taught it's taboo,
23:25but pleasure, my homie, isn't dirty.
23:27It's healing. It's powerful. And it
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24:20you had said um that's right. Explain to
24:24me the difference between that's right
24:26and you're right.
24:27>> I love it when you say that's right
24:30because I know I'm scoring points with
24:32you internally.
24:34I know that you feel that what I just
24:36said was the truth.
24:38>> So at a bare minimum, you feel I'm
24:41really listening and dialed in to you.
24:45>> So
24:47but we say your right to make somebody
24:49feel in control.
24:52So hearing your right
24:54>> to a manipulative person,
24:57they love that.
25:00Everybody learns along the line as a
25:03defense mechanism when somebody's really
25:05pestering you.
25:08If you say you're right to them, they'll
25:11probably stop pestering you
25:14and they'll feel really good and they'll
25:17leave you alone for a while because it
25:20saying you're right makes me feel good.
25:25Makes me feel in control.
25:28And so that if you're in a toxic
25:31relationship
25:33now, they're going to they're going to
25:34watch whether or not you walk to talk.
25:38But you're right is a great way to get
25:41give yourself some space.
25:44You're right. You told me never to do
25:46this again.
25:48It's clear I wasn't listening.
25:51It's clear my actions indicate I'm
25:53disrespectful.
25:57a wife's job is to obey.
26:01You're starting to you're starting to
26:02hit their buttons. I don't advocate this
26:05in normal relationships.
26:07But when you got a bad actor on the
26:09other side, then this stuff is fair
26:11game.
26:13>> I totally agree. I don't like to lie. I
26:15don't like to say things I don't mean,
26:17but you freaking better believe if my
26:19life was in danger at any moment, I will
26:21say what I have to to get out. Um, and
26:24so I I really applaud you saying that.
26:26Um, and what I realized was it seems to
26:29work if you say you're right to a
26:32narcissist and you get the bad actor to
26:34say to you, "That's right. That's the
26:36kind of perfect combination where they
26:38now really feel like they're in
26:40control."
26:40>> Yeah.
26:41>> That's Yeah. Exactly. And then you start
26:43to figure way out of the labyrinth
26:46>> that you didn't get into in one day.
26:49And if you give yourself the same amount
26:51of time to get out of it that you got
26:53into it, in point of fact, you're going
26:54to get out of it a lot faster. The hard
26:57thing is the exit's going to be abrupt.
27:00And
27:02when an there there's one of the most
27:05spiritual guys I ever I ever met. Um my
27:09minister in uh New York City was Norman
27:14Vincent Peele's protege,
27:16guy named Arthur Calandrew.
27:18And at the time, I'm running a suicide
27:22hotline, crisis hotline,
27:24and we got to let the executive director
27:26go. And I'm trying to salvage this
27:27relationship. And it's just not working.
27:29It's a relationship that's not working.
27:31Bad match, bad this, bad that. They want
27:33a bad person.
27:36>> And I go to Arthur and I'm like,
27:40I figure he's going to counsel me on,
27:42you know, how to be soft, how to be
27:43gentle. Did you do this? Did you do
27:45that? Did you do this? And Arthur just
27:47co says to me as no gentle way to cut
27:50somebody's head off
27:54and I'm like
27:58if I ever run across anybody that's
28:00God's guy on earth, Arthur is in that
28:04category.
28:05And if he's telling me that if it's time
28:09to end the relationship
28:11that you cut it as quickly and cleanly
28:14as possible
28:16and that's the least painless way to do
28:18it.
28:20Arthur was God's guy. And I figure, all
28:23right, if the relationship's got to be
28:26over, you got to cut it and you got to
28:28go. And whatever your spirituality is as
28:32a human, that's the best move possible.
28:34That's so cool. Um,
28:37okay. So, as we start talking about
28:39this, you talk about leverage.
28:42>> Yeah. And that's one of the aspects of
28:44our thinking. Me, you know, my team, I
28:46think we've evolved so much. We think so
28:48much more now in terms of influence
28:50versus leverage.
28:51>> Oh, what's the difference?
28:53>> Typically, leverage is thought of as
28:55your ability to hurt somebody.
28:58>> How, you know, deny if you don't make
28:59this deal, there's going to be
29:00consequences. You know, I'm going to
29:01fire you. I'm going to tell people about
29:03you.
29:04>> And you don't think consequences are
29:05good?
29:06>> I think they're a last resort. And I
29:09think that there's a way to gently bring
29:11it up.
29:12>> Oh, say more.
29:14>> Well, in in a I'm coaching some guys in
29:17a business negotiation now
29:20and they say, "Look, if if they don't
29:21straighten it out with us, I don't know
29:23how that they expect us this to not get
29:25out. It's going to ruin them in the
29:26industry. People are asking us now what
29:28it's like to deal with them."
29:31And so in that circumstance, if you're
29:33going to threaten somebody with some
29:34somebody, you know, I'm going to say
29:35some of the effect of here's my problem
29:38and this is my problem and it's not your
29:40problem. I'm an honest guy. That's my
29:43problem.
29:46People are going to ask me what happened
29:47when I when we did we work it out or
29:49not. Now that's not your problem. That
29:51is my problem.
29:54That's the dilemma that I'm faced with.
29:56So, I don't want you to feel backed into
29:58a corner for me to drop the threat.
30:02I want you to think what I need you to
30:05think without me saying it.
30:09>> And so, what's what do I know in
30:11advance?
30:13As soon as I start saying this is my
30:15problem,
30:17then you're taking a different
30:18perspective. You don't feel threatened.
30:20>> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. It
30:21feels like you don't have the defenses
30:23up.
30:23>> Yeah. Yeah. because I'm trying to keep
30:25your defensiveness down. I don't want
30:28you to see me as a threat, but I need to
30:30share with you consequences.
30:32I'll give you another one.
30:33>> Yeah, please.
30:34>> Um, inappropriate sexual comments in a
30:38workplace.
30:41>> So, very carefully constructed iMessage.
30:44It has three parts.
30:46>> Oh, okay.
30:46>> When you, I feel, because
30:50now it has to be in that order. Mhm.
30:53The when you you describe the negative
30:56behavior.
30:59Now, that's the hardest part because
31:01when you begin to describe the negative
31:03behavior, when you're tri going in your
31:06mind, you're going to get triggered and
31:07you're going to start name calling
31:09>> and you can't name call.
31:12>> So, like when you you can't say are an
31:15You can't do that. You can say
31:17when you dismiss me.
31:18>> When you dismiss me. when you make
31:20inappropriate
31:22sexual innuendo.
31:24>> Oh yeah, I forgot about the situation.
31:25>> Or when you make even inappropriate is a
31:27value to term. So you say when you state
31:31sexual in innuendo, you want to make it
31:33as neutral as possible. You know, it's
31:36the old school separate the person from
31:38the behavior.
31:40>> So describe the behavior. Well, who says
31:41it's inappropriate? It was sexual
31:43innuendo. It's arguable whether or not
31:45in their mind whether or not it's
31:46inappropriate. You want to stay away
31:47from the stuff. remove their defense
31:50mechanism as much as possible.
31:52Now, I feel there's a 180 degree shift
31:55there
31:57because you is an engaging word. I get
32:01your attention real fast when I say you
32:04when you
32:07you're expecting a personal attack name
32:09calling when you're an
32:12I'm not going to do that, but I've
32:15triggered your guard up a little bit.
32:18you're expecting a further onslaught.
32:20>> I is a self-centering word.
32:23It's one of the few times you want to go
32:25with I feel
32:26>> because now there's such a 180 shift in
32:28the in the instantaneous momentum. The
32:31predator is a little caught off guard a
32:32little bit.
32:34I feel you have to use a negative
32:36emotion. Not too negative. I counsel
32:39usually I feel concerned. I feel angry.
32:42That's a little strong in this case.
32:45When you make sexually inappropriate
32:46remarks, I feel concerned. Now, the
32:49kicker, here's here's the punch that
32:52you're setting them up for.
32:55The because the consequences and the
32:57consequences have to cost them.
33:01An example of missing the punch at the
33:04end. A woman that was one of our
33:06coaches, she says, "When you make
33:09inappropriate remarks, I feel concerned
33:11because it makes me uncomfortable."
33:13That's a cost to you.
33:16>> That's ineffective.
33:18As a matter of fact, he might like that
33:20it makes you uncomfortable.
33:20>> That's what I was going to say. That may
33:22be that goal,
33:23>> right?
33:25When you make inappropriate remarks, I
33:27feel uncomfortable because it's going to
33:28stop me from being loyal to you.
33:32It's going to stop me from following
33:33your direction.
33:36It's going to stop me from supporting
33:37you in the workplace.
33:41Now, that's leverage.
33:43That's the cost to the other side.
33:47Now it matters. The because has to cost
33:51them.
33:53Now the iMessage, it's got to be in that
33:55order and it takes practice.
33:58>> How can I usually roll one off the top
34:00of my head? Practice.
34:04It's one of the most complicated set of
34:07our skills.
34:09And even if I practiced all week this
34:12week and let's say end of the week
34:15Friday, I could do an iMessage just like
34:17that under any circumstances. If I go
34:20for a week without thinking about it,
34:21it's like any other skill, I start to
34:23deteriorate.
34:25So then, okay, fine. You give yourself a
34:28chance, you write it out, you prep
34:30yourself, and you use it in the moment.
34:32>> That's so true. And thank you for saying
34:34that because I believe my own
34:36confidence, the way that um to for me to
34:38be able to set boundaries, to stand out
34:40for myself has all been constant
34:42practice. I say this a lot. One of my
34:44favorite movies is Karate Kid. Wax on,
34:46wax off. I am waxing every single day.
34:50And so I love that like be prepared
34:52because when you're in that moment, I'm
34:54just going to speak for myself. I can
34:56absolutely get in my own emotions and my
34:58own emotions definitely trigger the
35:00fight or flight and I either become the
35:03chihuahua that just like barks because
35:05it's the only way I feel like I can
35:06defend myself or I completely shut down.
35:08>> Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
35:11One of the reasons why I often use a
35:12late night FM DJ voice.
35:14>> Explain to me this. There are three
35:16types of voices I think you say. Right.
35:18Well, there's the late night FM DJ
35:20voice, which is downward inflecting,
35:24which uh Sandy Ho, my team, top women's
35:27coach, she says for women, if you don't
35:30have a lower voice, all you're going to
35:31do is drop your chin when you talk.
35:34>> Mhm.
35:35>> When you when you drop your chin when
35:36you talk, you downward inflect.
35:38>> Oh.
35:38>> Even if you sound like a Chihuahua,
35:42>> the downward inflection is the key. M
35:44>> there are times when you need to project
35:46you bring your chin up
35:50and so you can practice that and do an
35:53automatic inflection override with the
35:55positioning of your chin
35:56>> no matter what kind of voice you have.
35:59The soothing voice is a neurochemical
36:02reaction. I will calm you down.
36:05Now you can fight it but you can't stop
36:08the fact that I've started a calming
36:10effect in your brain.
36:12Now, the smiling voice,
36:15same thing. Neurochemical reaction.
36:18>> When I run across somebody that is just
36:20really angry,
36:22some clerk someplace that does nothing,
36:25get battered by the people that come in
36:26and complain,
36:28I'll have to hit him with a smiling
36:29voice maybe three times in a row.
36:31>> Oh.
36:32>> And then and then you'll see it you'll
36:33see it come over. So, it's just a matter
36:35of sticking to it.
36:36>> The first one doesn't hit then because
36:39they're already in, let's say, a bad
36:40space. They they they they got so many
36:42negative neurochemicals going that I may
36:44have to hit them two or three times to
36:46soak them all up.
36:47>> Oh, okay. And they don't get annoyed by
36:49the happy tone.
36:51>> Even if they do, and sometimes they'll
36:54get annoyed because they don't want to
36:56they don't want to be happy and they
36:57caught themselves being happy and
36:58they're mad.
36:59>> And so I'm like, I'm going to keep going
37:02with that kind of a voice. In general
37:04terms, a playful attitude, you'd be
37:07shocked at how far you can get how
37:09quickly with a playful attitude in in
37:11day-to-day interactions.
37:14>> And so with the narcissist, the
37:16attacking person, they're they're not
37:18going to want that playful attitude
37:20right away.
37:21>> They're going to want the differential
37:22downward infl I understand. I
37:25understand.
37:26Careful that you don't let that go into
37:29condescending or placating.
37:31>> Oh, cuz that would just wind them up
37:32even more, right? They'll sense that.
37:34>> Uhhuh.
37:35>> And how do you know the difference?
37:37Practice in all your other
37:38conversations.
37:39>> That's so You definitely have the DJ uh
37:42late night voice, which is very soothing
37:44by the way. Um what's the third tone?
37:48>> The assertive voice. I would describe
37:50myself as just being direct and honest.
37:53>> Is there a way to combine them? Because
37:54I feel like you're direct and honest,
37:55but you do it in the DJ voice.
37:58>> Yes. Oh,
37:59>> because a bare bones, direct and honest
38:01voice inadvertently triggers a
38:03fightlight respon a fight response in
38:05you.
38:06>> Oh yeah.
38:07>> And you shut down and I we'll get into
38:09an argument when we shouldn't have.
38:12I mean in in broader applications, I
38:14think that it's law enforcement is
38:17taught to give loud and clear commands.
38:19They don't realize because of training.
38:22They're doing it because they're
38:23trained. They don't realize in point of
38:25fact they're making it harder for the
38:26other person to think.
38:28>> A that's what I was going to say. I
38:30could just see if you're in a
38:32negotiation, let's say you've got a
38:33hostage situation, would assertive ever
38:36work?
38:37>> It's always counterproductive.
38:38>> Yeah, that's what I would have thought.
38:40>> Yeah. Yeah. It feels good in the moment.
38:42>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
38:43>> Could be addicting,
38:45>> but it's it's it ends up being
38:46counterproductive.
38:47>> Okay. So, you try to stay in the late
38:49night DJ voice.
38:50>> Late night DJ voice. You know, there's
38:51another interesting trick. People are
38:54ridiculously vulnerable to curiosity.
38:57Like, you can't resist genuine curiosity
38:59on my part.
39:01And
39:04if I'm curious,
39:07I turn my head to the side when I said
39:08that and I brought my chin up slightly.
39:12>> And that gives me a curious tone of
39:15voice. But you also like if if if I
39:19don't say a word and we're talking and I
39:21go,
39:23>> "Oh, yeah. You just did the head tail."
39:25>> Yeah. You felt my interest.
39:28>> You felt that I was dialed in and that I
39:32wanted to hear more. There's a couple of
39:36physical signs that are kind of
39:37universal.
39:40As you're listening to me, you're a good
39:42listener and you got a head nod.
39:43>> Oh, thank you. Head nods a universal
39:46sign of interest and understanding
39:48>> comprehension.
39:50If you're nodding your head,
39:53I feel like you're dialed in.
39:56And if you're curious,
39:58>> you know, you feel drawn to that. You
39:59can't resist my curiosity.
40:02So, it's a physical and and a verbal uh
40:05reinforcement that we've found to be
40:07universal.
40:08>> That's so good. And going back to the
40:10type of people that you'd be talking to,
40:12if they want to maintain control,
40:14showing the curiosity actually feels
40:16like, oh, you're really interested in
40:18me. Like it just adds to that control
40:20factor.
40:21>> Yeah.
40:21>> Um, okay. I love all the steps that
40:23you've given us. This has been so
40:25fascinating. Now, let's go to though.
40:27You say don't compromise.
40:29>> The unfortunate aspect of compromise is
40:31if I don't get everything I want that no
40:33matter what I got, I'm going to be
40:34disappointed.
40:36And so Daniel Conorman, he won a Nobel
40:39Prize in 2002 in behavioral economics,
40:43which is a loss stings twice as much as
40:45as an equivalent gain.
40:48>> So if I
40:49>> repeat that again,
40:50>> a loss stings twice as much as an
40:53equivalent gain.
40:55>> Oh,
40:58>> it's an emotional condition of humans.
41:03So if I give in by five, I'm going to
41:06feel I lost 10.
41:09Which is why compromise tends to be a
41:11downward spiral no matter because we're
41:13both going to feel we gave up more than
41:16we actually did. And then we get into
41:19this whole concept of fairness, which
41:22like beauty is in the eye of the
41:23beholder.
41:23>> I love the way you call it the fbomb.
41:25>> The fbomb. Yeah.
41:28>> Fair is the fbomb. If somebody drops
41:30fair, things have gotten emotional.
41:33>> Ah, really? That's a sign.
41:34>> That's not fair.
41:35>> Oh, yeah.
41:36>> Okay.
41:38>> You have been triggered.
41:41>> Uh, so that compromise is guaranteed
41:43disappointment.
41:45>> You know, I'm a last century guy.
41:46>> Yeah.
41:47>> Back when newspapers had cartoons, you
41:49know, cartoon panels.
41:51>> And there was this one, it was the
41:53Lockhorns, and it was a husband and a
41:55wife.
41:56and the husband saying to the wife, you
41:58know, why don't we compromise? That way,
41:59we'll both be unhappy.
42:04>> Uhhuh.
42:05>> So, compromise is is is guaranteed
42:07disappointment.
42:09And if you're looking to gain the upper
42:11hand emotionally,
42:14you're engaging in a strategy that's
42:17going to guarantee disappointment, your
42:18counterpart.
42:20>> So, just be aware of that.
42:24Now, in the moment, it might be the next
42:27best step.
42:30And if you're with a predatory
42:33counterpart,
42:35next best step might be what you need to
42:37gain space. But be aware, it's a not not
42:40a long-term solution. It at best is a
42:43band-aid.
42:45Sometimes you need a band-aid.
42:48>> If the situation calls for it, you might
42:51need a band-aid.
42:54Do not kid yourself that it's anything
42:57more than a band-aid.
43:01Stressful
43:03emotional abuse
43:06things you got to find your way out of.
43:08It may be what you need to survive the
43:10moment. So, I wouldn't rule it out under
43:12those circumstances.
43:13>> It feels like compromise comes when you
43:14feel like sometimes you're either at a
43:16stalemate where you're like, "Well,
43:17there's nothing. You're not budging. I'm
43:18not budging. Fine. Let's just meet in
43:20the middle."
43:21>> Right? Then how do you get what you want
43:23if you're not willing of if you
43:25shouldn't compromise and the other
43:26person shouldn't compromise?
43:28>> There might be something there that
43:29neither one of you know about that's yet
43:31to be discovered.
43:33>> You know we refer to that as a black
43:34swan.
43:35>> Explain what the black swan is.
43:37>> Well it originally inspired by Nasim
43:39Nicholas Talb's book the black swan
43:42the impact of the highly improbable. the
43:45tiny little things that ended up
43:46changing everything
43:48because they were hidden
43:50>> because no one actually even realized
43:52the black swan existed. Correct.
43:54>> Right. Yeah. Yeah. And and and Talib
43:57used them as a great metaphor for
43:59discovering the things that'll change
44:00everything.
44:02>> So kind of by definition in any
44:04negotiation that stuff you know I don't
44:08stuff I know you don't.
44:10I've never heard anybody argue with that
44:12premise. Well, then that means there's
44:14stuff there that we don't know that we
44:16could discover. What's the collaboration
44:19>> in general terms? The narcissist, you
44:22don't know for sure uh what's going to
44:25make them happy. You got a pretty good
44:26idea. You should be gathering data,
44:30but maybe the dynamic has occurred in
44:32their life that's opened up their mind
44:34to something else that you don't know
44:35anything about. You don't know what
44:36happened the last 24 hours when they
44:37were out of the house. You know, they're
44:39running from one shiny object to the
44:41next and it's confused in their head and
44:43they're coming back trying to feel in
44:45control in the house because they feel
44:47chaos on the outside.
44:49>> They want control here, chaos out there
44:51is bothering them. What was it that
44:53happened the last 24 hours that's
44:55bothering them?
44:56>> What got under their skin?
45:00As long as you're open to the concept
45:01that there's stuff there that maybe it's
45:04not to be discovered in every
45:05interaction, maybe it's not to be
45:06discovered every day, but the uh the sea
45:10of unending turmoil that life is,
45:14there's going to be stuff there to be
45:15discovered.
45:17And if you're open to it, all you got to
45:18do is be open to it.
45:20>> And what does that look like? Asking
45:21questions.
45:22>> See, questions make people feel
45:24questioned. Oh,
45:27>> now the what and how things are
45:29questions
45:31and they're also exhausting.
45:34There may be moments when they have no
45:36tolerance for exhaustion.
45:39The crazy thing about the label is
45:43it's effectively questioning. It doesn't
45:45feel like a question.
45:47[Music]
45:49>> I could say to you, "What's on your
45:50mind?" and you'd stop and think.
45:55And if you had the energy,
45:57then you'd answer.
46:00If I say to you, it seems like
46:01something's on your mind. You don't stop
46:03and think. You just tell me what's on
46:04your mind. For whatever reason, it comes
46:07out easier with less friction.
46:10Far simpler.
46:13You made the narcissist angry. You don't
46:16know why.
46:18It's clear I did something that made you
46:20angry. They're more than likely to tell
46:22you what it is
46:24>> because you're not asking a question.
46:26You're more like making it a statement
46:28that almost gives them validation.
46:30>> Yes.
46:31>> That's so good. Okay. In these
46:33scenarios,
46:35you seem you talk with authority. You
46:38speak with your DJ late night voice.
46:42I would assume though in the career that
46:44you've had that you have been triggered.
46:46How do you avoid getting emotional and
46:49letting your emotions flood you,
46:52whereby you then act out of accordance
46:54to who you want to be?
46:56>> If I'm really out of control in a
46:58moment, I'll switch to the late night FM
47:00DJ voice because I practice doing that
47:03and I know it's going to calm me down.
47:05>> So, literally, you're in this
47:07conversation, you feel like you're
47:09getting triggered, and so immediately
47:10go, "Oh, I need to now do the late night
47:13DJ voice."
47:14>> Right? cuz I use it to calm me down.
47:16>> Oh, that's great.
47:18>> Um, and then really the ongoing thing
47:21and and something I've just come across
47:24recently, there's a book called Chatter.
47:27What's the chatter in our head?
47:30Everybody's heard you got like 50,000
47:32conversations go through your mind in a
47:33given day and the vast majority of it is
47:35repetitive.
47:38So the hypothesis is
47:41can I get behind that and switch it
47:46and you can't
47:48and it's a lifelong habit of not being
47:51in control of it.
47:53>> So for me it's still an ongoing struggle
47:56who who does the chatter. Give me some
47:58examples.
48:00My favorite example which got me started
48:02first thinking about it Jaco Willink you
48:04know the seal.
48:05>> Yes I do. You know, his guys are like,
48:07"Jo, no matter what happens to us, all
48:08you ever say is good. We lost all our
48:10funding for our weapons." You say,
48:12"Good." You know, our training facility
48:15burned down. You say, "Good."
48:17>> Like, he's got the habit of
48:20his inner chatter is always good because
48:24now he's reoriented.
48:27He's got problem solving. So, my first
48:30thought was when I could remember, if I
48:33felt something triggering me, I'd just
48:34say to myself, "Good." And I felt an
48:36instantaneous change in my brain
48:39instantly.
48:40>> That's so good.
48:41>> So, I know chatter works.
48:45Now, getting good at it is something I'm
48:47still working on.
48:49>> And it's an ongoing process. I'm not
48:51always going to keep myself from
48:53catching on fire. I need to stop, drop,
48:55and roll in the moment.
48:57>> In normal interactions, I learned from
48:59everybody. Barbara Corkin, hero of mine.
49:03>> We're both on a in Clubhouse back when
49:05Clubhouse was hot. We're both on this
49:07Clubhouse thing talking about
49:08negotiation.
49:10And Barbara says, "Here's a phrase that
49:12I've never regretted using." Now I'm
49:15dialed in
49:17cuz she's a shark.
49:19>> Yeah. Yeah.
49:19>> She's famous
49:21and she's been around long enough that
49:24she's got a great depth of experience.
49:26Barbara Corkin says, 'I've never
49:28regretted saying this. I got to know
49:30what that is. And then she says, ' Give
49:33me a little while to think about it.
49:37That's probably her stop, drop, and
49:39roll.
49:40Somebody's coming at her really hard in
49:42a very demanding way. How do you not say
49:45yes? How do you not say no?
49:48Give me some time to think about it.
49:51Well, if they say, "Well, you don't have
49:52any time." All right. So, you got some
49:54data on who you're dealing with. Uh,
49:56>> literally that was going to be my next
49:57question is that when you're dealing
49:58with somebody that just doesn't care and
50:01I can imagine somebody who's a bad act
50:03would be like, "No, you you can't have
50:05the control in this conversation."
50:07>> Right. Right. And then then All right.
50:09So, what's your followup? Do you want me
50:11to fail you?
50:14>> That's so good.
50:16>> It's not fair. But, you know, you're not
50:18dealing with somebody who's playing
50:20fair. Warren Buffett, another hero of
50:21mine. He slowly distances himself from
50:25toxic people. Gently,
50:28kindly,
50:30but inevitably
50:32continues to put distance between
50:34himself and them. Other people are more
50:36abrupt. Another one of my heroes, Oprah
50:39Winfrey. I've had some really word
50:42forword conversations relayed to me that
50:45Oprah has had where she's taken people
50:48to the woodshed in a kind and loving way
50:54and reminded them that no matter what
50:58choice they made,
51:00she would always love them.
51:03But made it clear that there was one
51:05choice to continue with her. M
51:08>> no matter which choice you make, I will
51:10love you. I will be on your side. And so
51:14I very definitely believe that you can
51:16love people and terminate the
51:18relationship.
51:18>> Okay. So as you start to navigate your
51:21own uh emotional sobriety is what I call
51:24it. So once you've established your own
51:26>> Yeah. Um, once you've established your
51:28own emotional sobriety, when you're in a
51:30conversation, let's say, so you're
51:32working on yourself, you're telling
51:33yourself that that's good, that's good,
51:35and that other person though just keeps
51:38escalating and you can feel that they're
51:40just ratcheting up. How do you navigate
51:43calming someone or do you in order to
51:47get to a resolve in a conversation?
51:49>> Yeah. What's their objective? And again,
51:52that this here's here's are you
51:55inauthentic in order to save your own
51:56skin.
51:59And if it's survival,
52:01then that's acceptable to me. I mean,
52:04what do they want to feel? They want to
52:05feel power. They want to feel
52:06domination.
52:07Look, and so you're a way of, look,
52:10you're in charge. There's no one like
52:11you. You win. You're in charge. What do
52:14what do you want from me? How how can I
52:16how can I please you? They want to feel
52:19in charge. you're in a desperate act for
52:22survival,
52:24then you're allowed to survive.
52:27You got to get your chatter up in the
52:29non-confrontational moments.
52:31>> And then that chatter is going to carry
52:33you through those moments and help you
52:35make the decisions that you need to
52:36make.
52:37>> Wow. I love the idea of practicing your
52:39own chatter because that's multiple
52:41times you've used it. And so realizing
52:43that in these dynamics, if you have
52:44control of the own chatter in your mind,
52:47that will impact how you then respond,
52:49which will impact the outcome. Oh,
52:51that's so strong. Chris, this has been
52:54so good. This has been so good.
52:56>> It's been amazing.
52:57>> Oh my god. Honestly, thank you so much.
53:00Um, you're doing great content. If
53:02someone wants to follow you, where can
53:03they continue to go down the rabbit hole
53:04of Chris Boss? We have within Black Swan
53:09something we're calling the Black Swan
53:10negotiation community where people are
53:11getting together and they're reinforcing
53:13each other a lot more. Go to the website
53:14black swaneltd.com
53:16to find that.
53:18And
53:21we have an annual conference for women.
53:24>> A
53:25>> where the instructors are women. Sandy
53:28Hine, who I mentioned earlier is the
53:29lead instructor. She won't even let me
53:31go. Oh, really?
53:32>> Like the first time we set that up, I'm
53:35like, "S can I at least come and welcome
53:37everybody." She's like, "No,
53:38>> she didn't compromise."
53:40>> She didn't. She's like, "This is this is
53:42by us. We're going to And so it's
53:45designed for women to thoroughly enjoy."
53:48And we've got another coach we just
53:50brought on. You know, these badass
53:51female hostage negotiators.
53:53>> Yeah, buddy.
53:54>> Are getting everybody together. And the
53:55women's conference is amazing. You can
53:57find that on the website, too.
53:58>> Amazing. We'll make sure that we put the
54:00links in the show notes. Guys, guys,
54:02today has been such a freaking pleasure.
54:04It has been chock full of just
54:07information that we can take and we can
54:08literally use in our own lives. So
54:10whether you're trying to negotiate with
54:12unfortunately somebody bad in your life,
54:14whether that's a partner or a boss or a
54:16family member, you literally have so
54:18many tactics and tools now in your belt
54:20that you can use at any point. So guys,
54:23please go follow him. If you're not
54:24following me, smash that subscribe
54:26button down there. And until next time,
54:28be the hero of your own life. Peace.
54:31If you want to know if you're actually
54:33dating a psychopath, then click right
54:35here to spot the seven red flags that
54:37confirm yes, you are. When a man sends
54:40mixed signals, it messes with your head.
54:42I mean, is he being honest or just good
54:44at lying? Does he care or is he
54:47manipulating you? as an interrogator.
54:49One of

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