YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → Nichol Kessinger FINALLY Speaks | Uncut Police Interview Chris Watts Case

Nichol Kessinger FINALLY Speaks | Uncut Police Interview Chris Watts Case — Transcript

by Criminal Cases Journal · 43,796 words · 6,242 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00This is the raw police interview with
0:02Nicl Kessinger, the woman Chris Watts
0:06was willing to commit the unthinkable
0:08for.
0:09What did she know?
0:11When did she know it? And how did
0:14investigators dig deeper into her side
0:17of the story? You're about to hear her
0:20words. You are listening to Criminal
0:23Cases Journal. Real stories from the
0:26darkest corners of criminal history.
0:29Some names have been changed and some
0:32tapes were never meant to be heard.
0:38>> I just turned the recorder.
0:39>> Okay. So again, this is this room is
0:41recorded and video and audio. Um
0:45we introduced ourselves in the lobby and
0:47earlier. So we're just going to do that
0:48again real quick. My name is Kevin
0:50Kobach. I'm with the Colorado Bureau of
0:51Investigation and uh we're assisting the
0:54Frederick Police Department with this
0:56case involving Chris Watts. And this is
1:00Tim Martinez, also an agent at CDI.
1:03>> Sir, if you just introduce yourself?
1:05>> Uh Dwayne Kessinger. I'm Nicole's
1:07father.
1:07>> Dwayne, what's your birthday?
1:09>> November 3rd, 1958.
1:11>> And home address for you, sir?
1:13>> 8801
1:1465th Avenue.
1:16>> What city?
1:16>> That's Arvvada 804.
1:20and a cell phone or a home phone or
1:22what?
1:23>> 720
1:259824547.
1:28>> Thank you.
1:29>> And Nicole, can you just introduce
1:30yourself for the recording?
1:32>> Nicole Cassinger,
1:34Tan.
1:36>> Yes, please.
1:36>> I live at
1:3912255 Cloud Court
1:43unit 612.
1:46Phone number 720
1:49656
1:519605
1:53>> Claude Court is that I think we
1:54determined it was North Glenn, right?
1:57>> Do you know your zip code?
2:03>> Okay. Can you speak up just a little bit
2:04so the recorder I know you're tired and
2:06you're stressed um and we won't be here
2:08any longer than we have to be. You've
2:11already had a conversation with people
2:12before. You came here on your own free
2:14will to talk to us. We picked you up at
2:17at your request and brought you here.
2:19Um, you can get up and leave at any
2:21time. You don't have to talk to us. If
2:23there's a question you don't want to
2:24answer, don't answer it. If you don't
2:26want to talk anymore, just tell me I
2:27want to tell me I want to leave. And I'm
2:31kind of in the way of the door, but
2:32you're not being uh you're not being uh
2:36interrogated as a criminal suspect.
2:37We're here to understand uh your
2:40relationship with Chris and what you
2:42know about Chris and his family and uh
2:46events relating to Chris Watts. Um and
2:49do you know him as Chris or Christopher?
2:51>> Either one.
2:52>> Okay. Um so
2:56the phone number that you reached him
2:57on, can you tell me what that number
2:58was?
3:00>> I think I deleted that out of my phone,
3:02too. I just like cut him out of my line.
3:06It's a 910 number. You guys have it.
3:10>> We gave it to Mark yesterday.
3:13>> Yeah, I I probably have it, but just in
3:15case.
3:16>> I don't have it.
3:17>> If I recited it to you, would you know
3:19it?
3:20>> Just the first three numbers.
3:22>> Okay.
3:23>> But you know it as a 910 number.
3:25>> Yes, that's what I do know. I I mean
3:27that's what
3:28>> North Carolina or something.
3:30>> Carolina. Okay. So, let's just start
3:33with like a timeline of your
3:37um getting to know Chris, how you guys
3:40met, where you met, all those things.
3:42And let's just run and I I'm not going
3:44to ask you specific questions. I think
3:46it's necessary. I'll let you just tell
3:47me your story. I think it's a little bit
3:49easier that way. So, I just want to know
3:51how you met him, where you met him, how
3:53long you guys were dating, uh and those
3:55kind of things initially.
3:57>> Okay. Um, I think I met up sometime in
4:00June, probably early June, might have
4:03been May. It was just talking at work.
4:05It was pretty casual. Um,
4:09and uh, he didn't have a wedding ring on
4:12his finger. And every time I talked to
4:14him, he didn't tell me that he was in a
4:16relationship. He didn't even mention his
4:18kids right away either. Um, and then one
4:22day he told me that he had two kids. I
4:24was like, that's pretty cool. and
4:27started telling me about his kid.
4:28>> That sounded like a sarcastic comment.
4:30>> No, I thought it was kind of cute. I was
4:32like, "Oh, he's a dad." It was like
4:33right around Father's Day, too. So,
4:36whenever that is in June,
4:38>> okay,
4:39>> I'm not good with holidays.
4:40>> He told me he had kids and then it was
4:42Father's Day shortly after that. So,
4:44that's what I do now. And I was like, I
4:45know. I thought it was cute. And then,
4:47um, he's telling me about him. He's
4:49pretty excited about him. And then um
4:53he mentioned that he did have a
4:55significant other. And then he told me
4:58that those two were in the process of a
5:01separation.
5:03>> Did he mention the children's name or
5:06his significant other's name?
5:08>> Um I didn't know his significant other's
5:10name for a while. And then I think he
5:13told me his kids' names pretty quick,
5:16but to be honest with you on an exact
5:18date of when that happened, I don't
5:20know.
5:21>> So in May and June, first of all, where
5:24do you work?
5:25>> I work at Ando Petroleum Corporation.
5:27I'm contracted to Antaro Petroleum
5:29Corporation.
5:30>> Okay. And you work out of an office
5:32setting where?
5:34>> In Flatville, Colorado.
5:35>> Okay. And Chris also works out of that
5:38location, per se.
5:40>> Yes. Yes. He's in the field but he comes
5:42into the office with his team.
5:44>> So you work what is your job
5:46responsibility?
5:47>> I do healthy health safe and
5:51environment.
5:52>> Okay. So you work in the office and you
5:53take care of health safety for Anna
5:55Darko is an oil and gas company right?
5:58>> Yes.
5:58>> So you're doing health safety in the
6:00office and Chris works in the field.
6:02>> Yes.
6:02>> As a what what kind of job does he do?
6:05>> He's an operator. So I don't know like
6:07all of his daily duties but he's a field
6:10operator. So he works with like the oil
6:12wells.
6:13>> So he goes out and does work on those,
6:16whatever.
6:17>> Yes.
6:17>> Um that work might be. But he comes into
6:19the office frequent
6:21>> in the mornings. His team meets in the
6:23mornings. They don't they're not all in
6:24there every day. Some days some of them
6:26are in there, some days other ones are
6:28in there, but in the mornings typically
6:30from like 6:15 to probably 7 somewhere
6:34around there.
6:35>> And is that where you met Chris?
6:37>> Yes.
6:37>> Okay. So, can you just take us through
6:40kind of a little bit of uh the early
6:43part of how you guys how he courted you
6:45or you courted him? I don't know which
6:47one happened. Um how you guys got to
6:49know each other.
6:50>> Um I guess we just started talking. He
6:52actually um so part of my job is to
6:56manage the gas monitors that we have. So
6:58Anadaro requires all of their field
7:00personnel to carry like uh gas monitor
7:02sensors for toxic gases. and it's my job
7:05to control the inventory, any issues,
7:08anything like that. Um, and we were
7:10having some pretty serious like
7:12equipment issues and we had numerous
7:16amounts of people coming in my office
7:17one day and he happened to be one of
7:19them. Um,
7:22and I'd seen him before, like they meet
7:24in the in the lunchroom and that's where
7:26I go put my lunch in the fridge. So, I'd
7:28seen him, but I didn't ever like talk to
7:31him. Um, so that day we just started
7:34talking and then every time I saw him in
7:35the hallway after that and it was always
7:37hit or miss like it wasn't an everyday
7:39thing. It was just when I saw him we
7:40just started talking and we just kind of
7:42had a lot in common and just hit it off.
7:44So we'd always have, you know, pretty
7:46good conversations and then I don't know
7:49one day he just he he told me that he
7:51had kids and started talking about his
7:53kids and then mentioned yes that I have
7:56a wife but we're getting separated.
7:59Okay. And
8:00>> when do you think that was? when he said
8:02all that.
8:03>> So, specifically when he told you he was
8:05getting separated from his wife, was
8:07that within the first couple weeks that
8:10you knew him or was that later on? You
8:12said you met him around May or June?
8:15>> Yeah, it was still in June.
8:16>> Okay.
8:17>> It would have been before Father's Day.
8:19>> So, had you guys ever gone out on any
8:20kind of uh date at that time? You just
8:23>> conversing at work?
8:24>> No. Yeah, that's all it was. And then um
8:29I don't know, we started hanging out. We
8:31hung out. We went to went to a park.
8:34>> Hung out at a park.
8:35>> Let's go back real quick. So he tell Why
8:37did he tell you that he was getting a
8:38divorce? Did he ask you out at that
8:40time?
8:40>> No, he didn't. I think he was probably
8:43interested in me. And so um he talked to
8:48me a couple times uh via his work phone
8:51and I was like, "Uh, no." like it was
8:54still very like friendly conversation,
8:56but then when I realized like this man
8:59is interested in me, I'm interested in
9:01him. This is personal. So, we got away
9:03from the Anadarko thing cuz I really
9:06don't want those guys affiliated with
9:07any of this. And
9:09>> so, you have a work phone that's
9:11specifically
9:12>> No, I have one phone that I do both on.
9:14He has two phones.
9:16>> Okay. So, he had your phone, the 72065,
9:20>> that's the only number that I roll with
9:21all the time.
9:22>> Okay. So, he has two phones.
9:24>> All right. One of those owned by
9:26Anadarko and one personal.
9:27>> Yes, sir.
9:28>> Do you know what his Anodarko phone
9:29number was?
9:30>> It's been so long and I mean, I'm sure I
9:33could like look it up, but I tried to
9:34look it up for those guys yesterday and
9:35I couldn't find it.
9:36>> Okay.
9:37>> Um,
9:37>> we can find it. That's okay. Just
9:39wondering if you knew it.
9:40>> Um, but at that point, we just like took
9:44it to his phone cuz I just felt it was
9:46like better that way. Um, and we just
9:49continue to talk. And then um
9:51>> let me go back to the park. Where's the
9:53park?
9:54>> It's like down the street from my house.
9:55It's called East Lake number three.
9:58>> Your your house in Northland?
10:00>> Yes.
10:00>> And that was in the June time frame.
10:03>> Yeah. Or like the beginning of July. It
10:05was like right around my birthday. It's
10:07like so sometime the very end of June or
10:09the beginning of July.
10:10>> Okay. And that's the first meeting you
10:13had outside of work.
10:14>> Yeah.
10:15um
10:18basic conversation for a first date.
10:20>> I mean, we kept it pretty simple, I
10:23guess. You know, um I don't even
10:25remember everything we talked about. We
10:27were there for a few hours.
10:29>> Um
10:31>> understand my So, if if I ask about
10:34conversation, what I'm looking forward
10:35was he talking about his family during
10:39any of these meetings? Those are the
10:40kind of I understand every you know
10:43whatever you guys were talking about
10:45relationship your life your interest
10:47those things that we don't need to know
10:49that what I'm interested in is knowing
10:50is when he brings up his children when
10:53he brings up his wife when he brings up
10:57financial information when he brings up
10:59his home when he brings up anything that
11:02may have been and and it's been a few
11:04days so you've had a chance to reflect
11:06on um some articles that you may have
11:09read and you know, unfortunately that
11:12you're in a situation where somebody has
11:14been murdered and that information when
11:18you look backwards um in your memory
11:21with the conversations with Chris,
11:23anything that he might have said that
11:25would be relative to that, and I'm not
11:28just, you know, even if one day he was
11:30mad and he said, "I don't want to do
11:31this or do that." Um, you know, anything
11:34like that. If he ever made any kind of
11:35statements that you were like, "Whoa,
11:36that was weird." um or why would he say
11:38that or why did he mention that? Do you
11:40understand what I'm I'm looking for?
11:41>> I completely understand. I just feel
11:43like some of this happened so long ago
11:46that I can't tell you like the exact
11:49words of the exact conversation at the
11:52exact time and place because it's like
11:53we had a lot of conversations. I mean,
11:55we talked every single day. So, it's
11:58like I'm trying to help you guys with
12:00the stuff like the stuff that's more
12:02current. I can give you guys a lot more
12:03like detail and exact times. When you're
12:06asking me about something that happened
12:076 weeks ago and exactly what was said,
12:09it's like I mean I'm sure I can give you
12:11a general idea, but to be honest with
12:13you, like to pinpoint exact words, it's
12:15not going to happen.
12:16>> I'm not looking for exact words. Um,
12:19just more uh let's say 6 weeks ago he
12:22said something that triggered with you
12:25last night. Um, that's what I'd be
12:27looking for. Or something four weeks
12:29ago. And if you don't remember where it
12:30was or the specific words, that doesn't
12:34matter. just he said something that was
12:35off the wall or he said this or he said
12:37that that has caused you a moment to
12:40pause and you go, "Wow, I wonder why he
12:42said that now knowing what you know
12:43today." Do you understand where where
12:45I'm going with that?
12:46>> I completely understand. And to be
12:48honest with you, I mean, there were
12:49several discussions that we had about
12:51his current relationship and where it
12:54had gone and what it had caused. Um, and
12:57he talked about his kids from time to
12:59time, but the thing was is he was never
13:02hostile. It was never anything
13:04aggressive. Like even when he spoke of
13:07his wife and the fact that they were
13:08separating, it was never like ill. It
13:11was it was very it was still very kind.
13:14It was just like this is not working,
13:16you know, and would explain why, but it
13:18wasn't anything out of the ordinary or
13:21anything that I think would scare me.
13:23And to this day, even after everything
13:25that I found out, I still look back at
13:28that and I don't see any red lights with
13:32the way that he spoke of his family.
13:35Okay.
13:36>> Can you just describe his overall
13:38demeanor over the 8, 10, 12 weeks that
13:41you guys knew each other?
13:42>> It wasn't that long. It was like six
13:44weeks that we were hanging out. I guess
13:46we knew each other longer.
13:47>> Okay. You met him in the office and just
13:50his overall persona. Who was he? Was he
13:54aggressive? Was he mellow? Was he calm?
13:56Was he outspoken? What Who was Chris?
13:59>> He I you know I think he's an introvert.
14:01I would consider him to be like a pretty
14:05I don't want to say he's a very reserved
14:07individual. I think he's probably more
14:09reserved around other people. I think he
14:12emphasized to me that one of the reasons
14:14that he really enjoyed talking to me is
14:16because if he felt like he could get out
14:18of his shell. He said around most people
14:21he just like didn't really feel the the
14:24need to to like talk and converse. And
14:27it wasn't just in his home life, just in
14:29general. It wasn't something where he
14:31he's an introvert. And he said with him
14:34with me, it made him feel like he could
14:36really just start talking about things
14:38that excited him. And I think a lot of
14:40that had to do with the fact that we had
14:42things in common. Um,
14:45so with me, I think he was a little bit
14:47more outgoing, but even then, I would
14:49still consider him to be an introvert. I
14:52mean, not on the extreme end. If an
14:54introvert went to like 1 to 10, I'd put
14:56him at like a four or five. So on the
14:59lighter side of introvert,
15:00>> pretty even killed.
15:02>> Yes. Like really relaxed like all the
15:04time. He was never really like worked up
15:06about anything. just
15:09>> mellow, chill, easygoing guy.
15:11>> Very much.
15:11>> Okay. And he was that way with you. Did
15:14you ever did he ever have any kind of uh
15:17Did you guys ever have arguments? I
15:18mean, pretty short relationship. No
15:21arguments during that time. Did he ever
15:23lose his temper at any time?
15:25>> You guys never had a yelling match?
15:27>> No.
15:27>> So, you never saw him upset or mad?
15:30>> No. And there was a couple times that we
15:32had some disagreements on things that as
15:34we like further progress into this
15:36story, you know, but it was never like I
15:38am very calm when I talk to people, it's
15:40like extremely rational when I handle
15:42situations that there's a disagreement
15:44in. And he always was the exact same
15:46way. Like always like I never stressed
15:49anything. I think one thing that
15:51actually kind of drew me to him was the
15:53fact that he was like very open with
15:54communicating with me if there were any
15:56like differences on how we saw things or
15:59or just like open-minded about things.
16:02It was it was actually I I personally
16:04thought it was kind of unique because
16:05usually most of the men that I've ever
16:07met are typically very closed off and I
16:09didn't get that from him at all. But it
16:12was always like kind, very kind. So, no
16:17sense that this guy had a temper or
16:20>> not it
16:20>> wasn't was aggressive or he never lost
16:24his mind and yelled and said crazy stuff
16:27or anything like that. Okay.
16:30>> So, can we just kind of go back to your
16:31relationship? You say you guys had a lot
16:33in common. What What was that?
16:36>> Well, I mean like we're both really into
16:37fitness. I think that's important. It's
16:39a lifestyle. Um both of us ate pretty
16:42healthy, so I think that was important
16:43as well.
16:44um he's like a total gear head. He likes
16:47cars a lot and I don't know nearly as
16:49much about them, but it's always been
16:51something that I've been pretty
16:52interested in. So, we definitely talk
16:54about stuff like that. Um
16:57and I guess he was always willing to
17:00like learn new stuff and vice versa.
17:01Like I like to travel a lot and it's not
17:03something that he's done a lot, but he
17:04seemed like really interested in what I
17:07had to share with him and vice versa. So
17:09even if it wasn't something that we
17:10originally had in common together, it
17:12was just like, "Hey, I respect what you
17:13have to say." And vice versa.
17:16>> So you guys
17:18ying and yang, you got along pretty
17:20well.
17:20>> Very well.
17:22>> And no time he never gave you any
17:25indication that
17:26>> none
17:27>> that he was having issues. Um,
17:32so when during your guys dating time,
17:35did you guys spend most of the time at
17:36your place?
17:37>> Always. Okay. Always at your place.
17:39>> I told Well, or we'd go out, but um I
17:44told Mark yesterday. He asked me if I
17:46went over there and I told him about one
17:48time that I went over to that house.
17:49I've been to that house twice, but it
17:51was very very brief and it was not like
17:53an extended stay. I did not feel
17:55comfortable there or like I just didn't
17:58want to be there. It's not my life. Like
18:00that is somebody else's life and
18:01somebody else's existence and I respect
18:03that. That's their space. And so I used
18:05to tell him, "Well, come to my house
18:07because this is like this is our space.
18:09This is my space." And so for me, out of
18:12respect, just for like whatever
18:14situation he had going on and the fact
18:16that it's not my home, um I felt that it
18:18was better to to be in my place. And I I
18:20live alone. I don't have any roommates
18:22or anything. So it's pretty easy to do
18:23that.
18:24>> So during June and July, did you were
18:26you aware that he uh his family was not
18:30his did you meet his children?
18:31>> Nope. during June and July
18:33>> and he didn't ask me to.
18:35>> Okay.
18:35>> I mean, not that I didn't want to ever.
18:37It was just not now. It's like you're
18:40not finalized with your separation. And
18:43not only that, we've barely been dating.
18:46Like, you can't introduce kids to
18:49somebody new in a situation like that.
18:51That's something that takes time. I
18:53mean, would I have liked to have met
18:54them? Of course. they, you know, I mean,
18:57that would have been a great honor for
19:00me to have somebody introduce their
19:01children into my life, you know, and and
19:03but not then. It was something that was
19:05like, okay, well, let's see where we're
19:07at in 6 months. Let's see where in a
19:09year. And if we're still doing this, and
19:10you and me are still, you know, happy
19:13with where we're at, and you think that
19:15this is something that is going to be
19:16longterm and is worth bringing your
19:18children into the picture, then yes, I
19:20would love to meet them. But it's like,
19:21not right now. you are still in this
19:24situation where you're not even
19:25completely out of it and I'm getting in
19:28it and that's not fair for them. And
19:30that was kind of the policy that I had
19:32with him was it was just like yes but
19:34not yet.
19:35>> So did he ask to introduce you to his
19:37children?
19:38>> Not at that time. I think both him and I
19:40were on the same page of eventually if
19:44things went as they should have.
19:47>> I understand you guys relationship is
19:48very new and young. Um, so
19:53although it was short, I just laying
19:56everything out helps us understand what
19:59actually was going on with him. And some
20:01we may I might ask you a question and
20:03you're going, "Why the heck would he ask
20:04me that?" Probably because I have
20:06information that I'm not willing to
20:07share with you. And I'll tell you that
20:08right now. I'm not going to tell you
20:10some questions I'm going to ask you.
20:11What the heck? I I won't share some
20:13information with you. Just it protects
20:14you. It protects our investigation. And
20:16so if it seems weird, there's a reason
20:18I'm asking it and it's usually relative
20:20to what I know. Um, so don't don't take
20:23offense to it. Again, it's just part of
20:25what we need to know. Um,
20:27>> understood.
20:28>> So just you went to his house on two
20:31occasions. Yes. Were was that recent?
20:33>> No, that was like pretty early into it
20:36and I did not like it and did not want
20:38to go back.
20:38>> Do you recall where the house was?
20:41>> Yeah, it's like right off the highway in
20:42Frederick.
20:43>> Okay. And you know the streets? I mean,
20:46I'm sure I could figure it out again if
20:48I like really had to. Like off top of my
20:50head, no.
20:51>> Do you know the street name?
20:52>> No. I would have to like drive around in
20:55there to get there.
20:56>> Okay. Um, did it look like anybody else
20:58lived at that house at that time?
21:00>> Oh, definitely. Okay.
21:01>> I mean,
21:01>> so is that what freaked you out?
21:03>> I mean, he told me that he was living in
21:06the basement. Um, and he said, "We're
21:08separated, but we're not divorced, and
21:11we're going to get ready to sell the
21:13house." And that was the impression that
21:14I was under. And I was under the
21:15impression that they were taking
21:16everything pretty slow with this with
21:18like getting ready to sell the house. I
21:19mean those are big things. So that's
21:21what I was informed. And I mean if you
21:23think about it, this whole thing
21:24happened in a 6 week stretch. Like it's
21:26not really that much of a time frame. So
21:29in that sense like it's believable to
21:33me. Um yes, I went I went to the house
21:37and um the first time I was there um
21:42I hung out in their like front living
21:45room. I just sat on the floor and it was
21:47on the 4th of July. It was the morning
21:48of the 4th and I was helping him
21:51uh to set up my Fitness Pal app and like
21:55track his food, his calories and stuff
21:57cuz he does pretty good with the working
21:58out and stuff. And he asked me, he's
22:00like, "Can you help me just like get
22:01this dialed in?" He's like, "Yeah, I can
22:03do that." So that he invited me up to
22:05the house and I was already kind of
22:06hesitant to do it because I was like
22:08there are other people that live here
22:09and I just felt like it was an invasion
22:11of space and so I went up there and we
22:14just stayed in that front room and I
22:16helped him out with that um and got him
22:19all set up with that and then uh oh he
22:22asked me if I wanted to lunch and he
22:24grilled chicken and carrots. Chicken and
22:26carrots. And then uh that's all he had
22:28and I was like okay. So we uh so we ate
22:31and then I left and then there was
22:34another day about
22:37I can give you the dateish.
22:40Get a calendar.
22:42I think it was the weekend after my
22:44birthday.
22:47>> Just a thing on the courtesy for the
22:50phone for what was that guy's name?
22:52Dawn.
22:54>> This gentleman
22:55>> Thornton PD I just met him today.
22:58Do you want to do the phone?
22:59>> I forgot about that
23:00>> for TPD.
23:02>> It's not for them. They're doing it for
23:04us. We just didn't We don't have the
23:05equipment with us to do it. And I asked
23:07them to do it for us. They're not
23:09involved in this investigation. He would
23:11just be a computer person. He would not
23:15be looking at any of this stuff. That
23:17would fall to myself. So, keep that in
23:20mind. He's not involved in this
23:21investigation. Thornton PD has nothing
23:23to do with this other than letting us
23:25use their facility and um helping us
23:27with some electronic download. He's not
23:30going to look at your phone right now.
23:31He's going to put it on a disc and
23:33they're going to give it to me.
23:34>> Gotcha. I don't know. What do you think?
23:38>> I really want to help you guys. I do. I
23:40feel like I'm This whole thing is just
23:43going to be crazy regardless of whether
23:45I give you my phone or not. I mean,
23:47that's kind of how I look at it. Like,
23:49it's happening. It's going to happen.
23:52>> Well, the text reiterate what you've
23:54been saying all along. So, it's not like
23:56>> Well, they do. That's the other thing,
23:57too. I mean, that's kind of a good
23:59backup. Yeah.
24:00>> I think you hit the nail right on the
24:02head. There's reasons why we want
24:04everything. Um, it validates things that
24:07we know.
24:09I'm not going to come out and tell you
24:10that I if you tell me something today,
24:13we'll validate it with your text
24:14messages, whether it's the ones we have
24:16now or the ones you're going to give us.
24:17I don't if you want to go get him. I
24:20always
24:21>> I want you to read this is what I want
24:23you to do before you decide that. Okay.
24:26Um
24:26>> so the second time I went to that house,
24:28I'm not sure what day it was, but it was
24:30the weekend of the 14th
24:35>> um of August.
24:36>> July.
24:37>> July.
24:40>> I don't know if it was 14th or the 15th.
24:43um one of those two days, but we had
24:45went out and we stopped there just real
24:47quick on the way back and we were there
24:50not very long. But that time I saw a
24:53picture of his wife and one of his kids.
24:57And I remember thinking to myself like,
24:58"Wow, she's so beautiful." And I like
25:01took a step back and I was just like,
25:04"This man has a gorgeous house. He has
25:07beautiful babies. He has a beautiful
25:09wife. He has an awesome job." like
25:13why would he want to lead this? And I
25:16remember talking to him about it and
25:19that was the first time that I tried to
25:21actually say, "What do you think about
25:24not separating from your wife?" Like,
25:25"What if you really try to work on
25:27this?" And he had expressed to me that
25:29we've tried to work on this and it's not
25:32working. So that is why we're
25:33separating. And I spent some time like
25:37just, you know, kind of cuz it it almost
25:39made me feel bad where I was like to the
25:42point where
25:45I'm engaging in a relationship with a
25:46man who
25:49the way he described it is in a
25:51contractual agreement but was not in
25:54like an emotional relationship with
25:55somebody. Um, and for me, the way I
25:59would have preferred to do this is to
26:01have waited till that contractual
26:03agreement was also done. And he was done
26:06and he could have approached me and
26:08said, "I'm just had a divorce. You know,
26:13maybe we could take this slow. What do
26:14you think?" But instead, it was, "Oh,
26:16we're separated and we're working on a
26:18divorce." And
26:21that is the part that I feel bad about
26:25because I should have waited on that and
26:27I didn't.
26:29And you know, I was just like, well,
26:31they're already there. So, you know, but
26:34then being in that house was just like,
26:36why? Fix this. Find a way to fix this.
26:39Make it work. You know, and and I would
26:40I would I was like trying to push him to
26:42do it. And he seemed pretty reluctant to
26:45do it. He didn't want to. And um I don't
26:50know, we were still seeing each other
26:52fairly frequently, but
26:54I kind of like backed away so we weren't
26:57hanging out quite as much. And we were
26:59still close, but it was just like I
27:01really wanted him to try. Like I wanted
27:03to know that he tried and it didn't work
27:06and then he moved on. not
27:14not that you know they both kind of
27:17tried and then he got himself into a
27:20situation with somebody else and I don't
27:22know I just thought he had a beautiful
27:25life going on and he could have made it
27:27work. That was the way I looked at it
27:29from the outside.
27:29>> So is this something you reflected on
27:31since this event or was this you
27:34>> No, I was doing it then like
27:36>> you said this this doesn't look right.
27:37He's kind of um I don't want to be
27:40responsible for breaking up a marriage,
27:41especially with two children. Is that
27:43kind of the gist I'm getting here?
27:45>> I didn't think it didn't look right. I
27:47mean, I I think he was legitimately
27:49sleeping in the basement. And I don't I
27:51didn't think that these two were I mean,
27:54I think it was like, "Hey, we're both
27:55stuck in this house for now. We got to
27:57sell this. In the meantime, you live
27:59here. I live here. We sleep in different
28:01rooms. Take care of the kids." That's
28:02just like kind of how I took that. And
28:06um no, I didn't think it didn't look
28:07right. I just thought it just seemed
28:10like he had so much going on and it was
28:13just beautiful that I was like, "Why
28:15don't you just try this out, you know,
28:17and see if you can fix it?" And he'd
28:19always be like, "Well, what about us?
28:20What about us?" I'm like, "Don't worry
28:21about us." Like, that is more important.
28:23Like, try to see if you can like salvage
28:25whatever it is that you have going on
28:27with your wife. And and you know, I
28:30always got the impression that he was a
28:31great father to his kids, like always.
28:33And so, you know, I was like, "And be
28:35the dad that you want to be." I was
28:36like, "And see if you can make it work."
28:38And he just like, we kind of talked
28:40about it off and on for like a few
28:42weeks. And I was just kind of like, I
28:44don't know. Like I think I was kind of
28:46like cold feet about it when I went
28:48after I went over his house. And so this
28:50was like pretty early on. And then um he
28:55told me that uh oh he went to um
28:59he went to North Carolina
29:02and he was like I'm going to talk to her
29:05when I'm in North Carolina and see if I
29:08can get her to do this to like try to
29:11like rekindle the flame.
29:14>> Okay. So try to uh
29:17salvage his relationship as you've been
29:19asking him to do.
29:20>> Yes. And and then if he
29:21>> When did he go to North Carolina?
29:22>> Um I think it was like the last week of
29:26July somewhere around there.
29:27>> Okay.
29:27>> So I mean this was like a couple weeks
29:30that I was just kind of like trying to
29:31push him.
29:32>> Let's let's pause at North Carolina and
29:34we'll come back to that real quick. I
29:35want you to read this. If you don't
29:37understand what it means, then ask me
29:39the question. But basically what it says
29:41is you have the right not to let me look
29:43at your phone. I'm asking to look at
29:45your phone for the purposes we
29:47previously discussed for the text
29:48messages and your phone log and
29:51unfortunately the photos that are
29:52attached there too. Um that information
29:55is only rel relative to this
29:57investigation. I'm not looking at
29:59anything else except for the
30:00conversations between you and Chris
30:03Watts and the phone data between you and
30:07Chris Watts for phone calls for times
30:08and dates for those phone calls. Um, and
30:12then the content of the text messages
30:14that that are there. And we can we'll
30:16write that specifically down here.
30:18Understand that
30:19>> don't want anybody to get some of those
30:20texts like they have nothing to do with
30:22this case and they're just like
30:24>> between you and Chris.
30:25>> Yes. They're just they're just
30:28>> So just tell me what you're
30:30>> They're just kind of runchy. Like I
30:32don't need anybody
30:33>> Everybody's an adult
30:34>> posted like
30:36>> we're not going to
30:38need one of those papers to get that.
30:40That's all I want.
30:41>> The only ones that we would be looking
30:42for again is the same kind of questions
30:44we're getting to here is things about
30:47his children, things about his wife, the
30:50the questioning of did he ever, you
30:53know, has he ever said something to you
30:54that might indicate maybe not then but
30:57now that there was something like this
31:00in his mind or you you know what we're
31:02looking for. I don't need to come out
31:04and tell you that. I understand the
31:06embarrassment of particular photos or
31:09potential um sexual types of
31:12conversations you may have had with
31:14Chris. I it's it's not relative to to
31:17the investigation and we don't care.
31:19Okay? You're an adult. I'm an adult.
31:21Everybody in this room's even your dad.
31:23And I give it to you for saying that
31:25stuff in front of your dad because I'm
31:26not sure many women could do that. Um so
31:29that's not what we're we're after. We're
31:31after the the information that
31:34cooporates things that you've told us
31:36and also that cooporates or um may tend
31:41to prove that things that Chris told us
31:43were a lie. You understand that?
31:46>> Um and that's maybe going a little bit
31:47far. I usually won't tell people that,
31:48but because of your reservations, that's
31:50what I'm looking for. If I can disprove
31:53something he's told me by a phone
31:54record, phone records don't lie. People
31:57do. Okay? So, if I can disprove
32:00something that may be important, that's
32:02what I need it for. I'm not saying I
32:04can, has it happened before? Absolutely.
32:07Is it critical in cases that I've worked
32:09in the past? Yes. So, that's why I want
32:11it. Okay. Um, again, you don't have to
32:14give it to me. You can tell me. I don't
32:16want you to have it. Go get a warrant.
32:19Um, I'm not even going to tell you if I
32:21go get a try to get a warrant right now.
32:22I'm just asking for you to consent. And
32:25and again, we can write right here what
32:27you're willing to give me, which is the
32:29text messages and the phone log. And
32:31unfortunately, again, the the
32:33attachments on some of those text
32:34messages, and I'll write it on there,
32:36and then you'll just sign it. Okay? Do
32:38you do you understand the questions
32:39there? Do you have questions about any
32:41of the things that it says? You
32:42understand? You don't have to do this.
32:44You're doing it of your own free will.
32:53And I know you're tired. So, if you want
32:54to let your dad read it, too.
32:57>> Thank you.
32:57>> That's that's a good idea.
32:59>> Can you fill it out before I sign it?
33:00>> Yep.
33:01>> And just you read it and if you have any
33:03questions, then we'll we'll put on there
33:05what we're after.
33:07>> I'm so hungry.
33:09>> You should have told me I would have got
33:10you some food. I got food in my car.
33:12>> It's not staying down. It's just coming.
33:15>> [ __ ] I'm feeling good. Not because of
33:17any just
33:18>> like I got sick prior to this whole
33:20whole thing happening and then I think
33:23all of this compounding the fact that
33:25I'm sick it's just not good. I've not
33:28really been eating or sleeping much at
33:30all.
33:36>> Yeah, I
33:40I'm with you. We we definitely need to
33:43accelerate the case because the more
33:46long the more it takes the less sure
33:48that they are of situations.
33:52But on the other end, I think if we if
33:55you do just that only
33:57>> you tell me what you're willing to
33:58provide to me and
33:59>> is that good enough?
34:01>> I just want like our text conversation
34:04and then I guess our phone call records.
34:07So, I'm going to put
34:08>> So, the time and date of the phone call
34:10records and then our text messages.
34:11>> How did we get photos of him?
34:13>> Huh?
34:13>> Could we get photos of him
34:16>> off of that?
34:17>> Would you mind if we got his photos that
34:19he sent to you?
34:21>> Oh, well, they'll be in that text
34:22message thing.
34:23>> So, all his photos were sent. There was
34:25no apps or anything else used that you
34:26guys were sending. It was all just text
34:28messages.
34:29>> Yeah.
34:29>> Okay. So, it' be an attachment to a text
34:32that he sent you
34:33>> pretty much. Everything is in the text
34:35and the phone call records. So like all
34:37of it
34:38>> because we don't have it on tape. We
34:39discussed prior to turning the tape on.
34:42Um
34:44on Tuesday, which would have been the
34:4614th of August, um you had read some
34:50newspaper articles on the 13th and the
34:5214th that regarded this case. You had
34:54also had a conversation with Chris at
34:56some point during the day on Monday. Uh,
34:58and on Tuesday because of what you found
35:01specifically what you said was, and I
35:03don't let me put words in your mouth,
35:04but you knew you found out that his uh
35:07wife was pregnant
35:08>> and I Yes.
35:10>> And you did not know that prior and you
35:12found that out via the newspaper
35:14articles and that caused you
35:17concern.
35:19>> Well, I just realized that he was lying
35:21to me and I was like, well, if you can
35:22lie to me about this, what else are you
35:24lying to me about? And it made me
35:25realize that maybe his wife was in
35:27danger at that point and it was day two
35:29too and she still wasn't home.
35:31>> What did that cause you to do with your
35:33phone though?
35:35>> Oh, what? When I deleted those,
35:37>> I was just kind of grossed out by him to
35:39be honest with you. I was just like, I
35:41don't know what's going on right now,
35:42but you just lied to me and I don't want
35:46to see this come over my phone anymore.
35:48So, I removed it.
35:50>> So, you just you already said, but you
35:52removed text messages. I deleted all of
35:54his stuff because he lied to me. I mean,
35:56that's what it was. It was It was the
35:58hurt that made me delete it. And then it
36:02was the lie that made me start
36:04questioning everything else he'd been
36:06telling me for the last few days.
36:07>> And that's when you decided to come
36:08forward.
36:09>> Yes.
36:09>> Okay. So, just for context,
36:12>> when people delete stuff off phones,
36:14usually we go,
36:16>> "Hold on a second." And that's why I
36:18wanted
36:20this at all. He he he lied to me. It
36:23just hurt. Like I had never felt like
36:25he'd ever lied to me before. And it was
36:27a big lie. I mean, telling somebody that
36:29you're in the midst of a divorce and
36:31then you
36:34have a wife that has a 15-w weekek old
36:38baby on the way is a huge huge thing.
36:43And I was very taken back and I was just
36:45it was hurt. And so at that point, I
36:47just
36:49I like deleted it. I had I had a few
36:52more quick things to say to him and then
36:56I just got rid of him. That's literally
36:59what I did. I just cut him out of my
37:01life. It would have honestly been like a
37:02bad breakup kind of thing. Like if none
37:05of this other stuff would have happened,
37:06that's what it would have been. That
37:07would have been the end of it. The
37:08information was not destroyed because
37:11there was anything in there that would
37:13be harmful to you or potentially to
37:16Chris at this point, but harmful to you
37:18in particular. That's not why you did
37:20it.
37:20>> No,
37:21>> you did it out of
37:23excuse my language. This guy's an
37:24[ __ ] so I'm getting it rid of him
37:27and I'm getting this stuff off my phone.
37:29>> That was like me kicking him out of my
37:30life.
37:31>> Okay. And then, like I said, and then
37:33realizing that he lied, that was when I
37:35was like, "Okay, maybe his family is in
37:38danger and they're not coming back and
37:40they're not staying with a friend."
37:44>> Yeah. When did I go over there? Tuesday
37:46morning.
37:46>> Wednesday morning.
37:47>> Wednesday morning.
37:48>> I called you Wednesday morning.
37:49>> That's when we started discussing you
37:51guys need to get everything that it just
37:56>> You can understand the importance of
37:58>> Oh, no question. And we were,
37:59>> like I said, people lie, phone records
38:02don't. Um, and they really help
38:04specifically,
38:06um, established dates and times. I think
38:08we have a very good grip on that in this
38:10case already. But there may be a time
38:12when we go, we need to know something
38:14else and then we would have it. We don't
38:16want to lose it. And that's that's
38:17really what it is for us is if we lose
38:20information that later on we go, man, I
38:22wish we would have got that. And we may
38:23never even use these. We may never even
38:26look at them. But if if we have it now,
38:29then we don't worry about losing it. So,
38:30I appreciate you being cooperative and
38:32giving it to us. So, the first thing I
38:34wrote was text messages between Chris
38:36Watts and attachments.
38:39>> Okay. So, because we're talking about
38:40the photographs, unfortunately, that
38:43cause you much disdain.
38:47And then I am going to put a phone log
38:52for calls
38:55between
38:58Uh yourself and Chris Watts.
39:01Your phone number is
39:03>> 720 656
39:079605
39:15>> and this right now is located at we're
39:18at the Thornton Police Department. It's
39:20going to be moved to my so this is kind
39:22of doesn't make sense but we're here.
39:24It's going to be moved to the car bureau
39:26of investigation. He's going to download
39:27it here, but I'm going to take it with
39:28me. Just so you know, it's not staying
39:30here.
39:31>> Okay.
39:31>> They're not going to retain any of this.
39:32This comes with me.
39:33>> Okay.
39:34>> Okay.
39:36>> Is there anything else you want on
39:38there? I think that's about
39:40>> That's it. I mean, I don't have social
39:41media. I don't really have anything else
39:43you guys can pull.
39:45>> Okay. Is there anything else you know of
39:47that could help us with this that is not
39:50on this sheet? Uh, as far as like data
39:53>> that's on your phone.
39:54>> No. No. I mean, everything we did was
39:56like text and talk pretty much. I mean,
40:00and like I said, any pictures that I
40:02had, like even if you were to restore
40:04all my regular photos, there's so many
40:06pictures in there and you wouldn't even
40:07know which ones were for him and which
40:08ones weren't. But the one any picture
40:10that I wanted to send to him, I sent via
40:11text. So, if you guys go through the
40:13text and the attachments, you will have
40:15you will have everything that wasn't
40:17said verbally and was done via text.
40:19But, I think that's it. like I don't
40:20have I don't have anything else as far
40:24as like no Facebook, no Instagram, no no
40:27Twitter, no LinkedIn, like none of it.
40:30So, um there was never any of that kind
40:32of correspondent. So, I think that
40:34should probably cover everything you
40:36guys will need. Is there any particular
40:38messages that I would help me so I don't
40:40have to look at because whatever's on
40:43your phone, I don't know how long we're
40:44going to get back to. But let's say
40:46there is there a particular date or time
40:48or message that stands out to you that
40:50would be relative to specifically to the
40:52investigation into this case that might
40:54assist me in understanding why something
40:57like this could have occurred.
41:00>> I'm still in shock that this whole thing
41:02happened. Like I I like
41:05>> that's why I gave him the benefit of the
41:07doubt for the first day cuz I was just
41:10like no way. Like I didn't even think
41:12about that. I mean murder was not on the
41:14top of my mind when somebody doesn't
41:16come home for an evening. Especially if
41:18they just like had some sort of like
41:21heated conversation. It's like okay you
41:24guys are separating. You have a heated
41:25conversation. You leave for a night.
41:28Like I didn't even think
41:30this guy killed his wife. I mean that
41:32that like murder is on something on the
41:34top of my mind when I call one of my
41:36friends for 3 or 4 hours and she doesn't
41:38answer the phone. Like that doesn't even
41:40process to me as like a real thing that
41:44is a possibility at that point. And so
41:47that's why I gave it a day. And then the
41:49second day I was talking to him, he was
41:51just like a hot mess. I could tell. and
41:53then with like the way he was talking to
41:56me and then that's kind of when I cut
41:58him off and I stopped talking to him and
42:01then
42:02>> so remember what you just said and we're
42:04going to get to that cuz that's probably
42:05a very important conversation.
42:06>> So if you want to know days I would
42:08probably honestly just start at like
42:10Sunday and work your way forward. I mean
42:12all the rest of that stuff it's just
42:14like the small talk of like hey this
42:17this this you know I mean
42:18>> and your relationship building through
42:20the
42:21>> Yeah. I mean like and if you go like a
42:23maybe like a week further back like
42:24there's times like I was trying to help
42:26him find an apartment like just for him
42:28not for me but for him and his kids um
42:32to get set up and like there's times
42:34where I'm like well where's your wife
42:36moving to? Like how close is she going
42:39to be to you? You should be within like
42:4030 minutes of your kids so they're close
42:43and like you want to be close to their
42:44school and close to your gym and like
42:47what's your price range? like I was
42:49helping him get all of this stuff set
42:51up. And it was like in a very decent
42:53manner. And I don't know if all of that
42:55is in text. Some of it's probably on the
42:57phone. Like at this point, I've talked
42:58to him so much that I don't even know
43:01which parts are like verbalized and
43:03which parts are texted at this point.
43:05But we can figure it out.
43:06>> Okay.
43:08You see what I wrote? Text messages
43:10between Chris Watts and detachments. Uh
43:13and then the phone logs for calls
43:15between your phone number and Chris
43:16Watts. That's those are the two things
43:18that we'll ask to be extracted from your
43:21phone.
43:22>> So, if you're okay with that,
43:23>> why does it say remove cell phone data?
43:25Isn't that this
43:26>> that is that and that's what he's going
43:27to remove and then that officer is going
43:29to fill that out.
43:30>> Gotcha. What is the date? I don't even
43:33know what
43:33>> today is the 16th.
43:45add anything to this.
43:47>> Give us your phone.
43:49>> Yeah, we just we want to give you
43:51everything, but we also want to be
43:53protected in doing so. It's more of the
43:56>> sure
43:56>> was more of the thing. It It's just
43:58>> And when he's done, we'll give you a
44:00>> Is there a password or anything like
44:01Will it lock up after period of time?
44:04>> Yeah.
44:07[Music]
44:08That's not
44:11and
44:14make sure there's nothing written on the
44:15back.
44:16>> I checked before.
44:22>> Let's go back to North Carolina.
44:23>> Okay.
44:24>> He went to North Carolina and he was
44:25trying to rehab his marriage with his
44:28wife.
44:28>> Uh he said,
44:29>> "Do you know her name at this point?"
44:31>> Yeah.
44:31>> Okay. Are you okay saying her name?
44:35>> It's Shenan.
44:36>> All right. And do you know the
44:37children's name?
44:38>> Yes, it's Bella and Celeste.
44:40>> Okay.
44:41>> She went by They called her Cece.
44:43>> All right. So, he went to Were they in
44:46North Carolina already?
44:47>> If you want something
44:50that um Yeah, they were already out
44:53there. He just flew out there to meet
44:55up.
44:55>> Do you know why they were there?
44:56>> They're they're all from there.
44:58>> Okay. So they were their
44:59>> they were visiting her family for the
45:02most part until he got there and then
45:04they still were mostly visiting her
45:06family.
45:06>> Okay. Do you know how long they had been
45:09there?
45:10>> A while. Like weeks.
45:12>> All right. And he flew out to join his
45:16family there.
45:16>> Yep.
45:17>> Do you know specifically where he flew
45:19to?
45:19>> What airport?
45:20>> No, no, no. What city?
45:22>> No, not off the top of my head.
45:24>> Okay. I'm sure if I thought real hard
45:26maybe I could think about it, but I mean
45:28come up with it. No, I don't know.
45:30>> All right. So, he goes there. How do you
45:32You said it was like the last week of
45:34July,
45:34>> I think. So, I think it was like one of
45:36the last days of July. I'm almost
45:38positive. I think it was a week day.
45:40>> Okay.
45:41>> Um
45:44yeah, he flew out there and I thought I
45:48had like convinced him to like try to
45:51make peace with her. And I was like, if
45:53you guys work on this, like, I'm out.
45:56Cuz what's the point? Like, I'm not
45:58trying to be with somebody that's in
45:59another relationship, which I know that
46:01sounds silly given the whole
46:02relationship that we had in the first
46:04place, but I really was under the
46:06impression that they were separating. I
46:10mean, it was like reiterated to me so
46:13many times that that's what I thought it
46:14was. And it made sense to me, too,
46:16because like he could pretty much call
46:18me whenever he wanted. Like I was the
46:20one that would tell him like, "Hey, when
46:21your kids are awake, you need to spend
46:22time with your kids. Like do that." And
46:24then after they go to bed, like if you
46:26want to talk to me, you can talk to me.
46:28But it was never like this super super
46:30restricted thing. Like sometimes
46:34like right after work, if I was like
46:36still talking to him, I get kind of
46:37bummed out. And I, you know, I tell him
46:39just like, "Oh, it's frustrating
46:40sometimes like having to like wait." But
46:42at the same time, I was never like,
46:44"This is horrible." or you know it was
46:46always like I understood why but then
46:49once his kids were asleep he never like
46:53had any
46:56it was like he could do what he wanted
46:58do you know what I'm saying like he was
46:59in his basement and she's upstairs and
47:01they're not speaking
47:04so it kind of made sense it wasn't like
47:06>> and you guys were just texting and
47:08>> or talking or whatever you know I mean
47:10and it was just it was like I said it
47:12was at certain times but that time and
47:14originally it wasn't But it was me that
47:16put that time frame on there because I
47:18thought he should hang out with his
47:19kids.
47:21>> Um,
47:22>> those two times you were at his house,
47:23did you see any evidence of that? Him
47:25living in the basement? Did he ever show
47:27you that area?
47:28>> I've seen Yeah, I went down there and
47:30saw his his little workout equipment and
47:32there's a bed down there all set up and
47:34the basement was all clean and organized
47:36and stuff. So, um, like a like a decent
47:39bed set up. So, it made sense to me
47:41like, hey, this is this is what's
47:43happening down here. Um, so I saw it.
47:47>> Um,
47:48>> even though his family was in North
47:49Carolina for multiple weeks, it appeared
47:51that he was still living in the
47:53basement.
47:53>> Mhm.
47:54>> Well, and he told me sometimes he would
47:56like go upstairs and sleep if if like he
47:58was home alone cuz I know she'd like go
48:00on business trips and stuff, but he's
48:01like, I don't like that bed anyway, so
48:02he didn't really like sleep up there. I
48:04was like, okay. Um, even when it was
48:07just him. So that was the impression
48:10that I got. Um, I know where we talk
48:14about North Carolina.
48:15>> Yeah, go back to North Carolina.
48:16>> So, North Carolina. Um,
48:20so
48:22he still made very frequent
48:24communication with me when he was out
48:25there and at one point he told me that
48:29they sat down
48:31and they talked about it and he told her
48:33that he wanted to either fix things or
48:37like to try to fix things. And if she
48:38didn't want to fix them, then they
48:40needed to like move forward with the
48:41separation and like actually file for a
48:44divorce at this point was was the
48:46impression that I got from this and was
48:48what he told me. And so um
48:52he said that she was like pretty
48:53receptive to just not trying. He was
48:56like she seemed like she just wants me
48:58to go. He's like when she has her mind
49:00made up, she has her mind made up and
49:01that's what she wants. And he's like she
49:03doesn't want to try anymore. And he's
49:04like and neither do I really. And he was
49:06like it's done. And he's like, um, and
49:09then the next day, I don't even know
49:12what daisies were. Sometime when he was
49:14out there, he told me, um,
49:18we're putting the house up for sale as
49:19soon as we get back. And I was like,
49:21well, that was quick. And he was like,
49:22it's her. She's ready to go. And I was
49:24like, okay.
49:26And so I left it at that. And then um he
49:31got back and I started asking him like,
49:34"What are you going to do?" because the
49:36Colorado housing market is fire and you
49:38guys are going to sell this house like
49:40real fast. And I'm like, you need to
49:42start looking for a new place to live.
49:43And I'm like, where do you want to live?
49:46And I was really trying to help him out.
49:48I'm like, do you want to get a house? Do
49:50you want three bedrooms so you have one
49:52and each of your girls have one? I'm
49:55like, do you want to,
49:57you know, like do an apartment? Like,
49:59what do you want? You know, where do you
50:00want to live? Because he's in Frederick,
50:02but that whole area over there is just
50:04like a bunch of small towns. you can
50:05kind of just pick and choose.
50:06Everything's kind of, you know, and so,
50:09um, he told me why I like Brighton, and
50:13I was like, "Okay." And then he told me
50:16he wanted a two-bedroom apartment, and
50:18he said he wanted one room for him and
50:21the other room for his two girls. And I
50:23thought it was kind of cute. Like, I
50:25remember telling him, I was like, "Yeah,
50:26me and my sister had bunk beds like at
50:28my dad's house." And I was like, when we
50:30were little girls and we were me and my
50:32sister the same age apart as him and his
50:34I mean as his two daughters, you know.
50:36So I told him I was like they're going
50:37to love it. I was like they might be
50:39like stuck in in one room together. I
50:41was like but they'll become like best
50:42buddies. And it was really exciting.
50:44Like I liked helping him and I just
50:46wanted him to like
50:50I don't know. This is what he told me he
50:52wanted. So I was like well I will help
50:54you do the research. But another thing
50:55that I really took care of was to be
50:57like, "Where is she moving to?" I was
50:59never like, "You know what? Screw your
51:00wife. Try to get a full custody." None
51:02of that [ __ ] It was always just
51:04like, you know, I'd ask him. I'm like,
51:06"Well, what kind of custody are you guys
51:07going to have?" Cuz he's he at work
51:09they're about to switch his schedule.
51:11So, right now he's like a Monday through
51:13Friday and they're about to switch these
51:15guys to eight days on, six days off.
51:17>> That's tough.
51:18>> That's awesome. And I and I was so I was
51:21tell I was asking him I was like are you
51:23going to have your kids like on that set
51:26of days off? I was like cuz that would
51:28work perfect like one week on one week
51:29off. And I was just like you know we
51:31just talk about it. I'm like what is
51:32your plan? And he's like we haven't
51:35figured out exactly what we're going to
51:36do about the kids yet but he told me
51:38he's like Colorado's a 50-50 state and
51:40she's okay with everything 50/50. Like
51:43he said that she was like on board with
51:44this because she wanted it too. like she
51:47was checked out of this relationship. So
51:49that was like how he made this sound
51:52that it was like a very like kosher
51:56we're done kind of thing.
51:58>> Did you ever give him like books or
52:01articles or anything to read about
52:03saving your marriage? Did you ever
52:05provide anything to him like that
52:06>> about saving his marriage?
52:08>> Yeah, like how to recover a marriage or
52:10how to save your marriage or you know
52:12there's there's all sorts of
52:13publications and books out there. No,
52:15but I did tell him and I don't know if I
52:17did this through text or phone. That
52:18will be something you guys will I'm sure
52:19figure out. Um but I would tell I told
52:22him a few times like I think that you
52:24should take the time to read some
52:26articles uh about um what separation
52:29does to kids, you know, and I told him I
52:31said when my parents separated, we were
52:34literally like three and five. We were
52:36almost the exact same age as these
52:37little girls. And I told him, I said,
52:38you know, I was so young when it
52:41happened that it didn't really have like
52:45a big negative effect on me because it
52:47was so small that I didn't really
52:48process it too well. I was like, but I
52:50do have cousins that their parents got
52:52divorced when they were like 10, 11, and
52:54I think that it hit him a little harder,
52:56you know, and I and he's like, oh,
52:58they'll be fine, you know. And I told
52:59him, I was like, even though they're
53:00small and you think that they'll be
53:02fine, I was like, I think you guys
53:04should just read about it just so that
53:06you guys are prepared in case, you know,
53:07one of these two starts having a hard
53:09time with the fact that you guys aren't
53:11in the same house anymore, you know, and
53:13and I would tell him, I was like, you
53:14know, there's pros and cons to it. Like,
53:16cuz he was like getting ready to do it.
53:18And it would be like, you know, it's
53:19kind of cool having two Christmases and,
53:21you know, like your parents get to go,
53:23you know, be happy doing whatever it is
53:25they want to do with their lives and
53:26they don't have to be in a situation
53:28that's probably not good for the kids
53:30because it's not good for those two, you
53:32know, but at the same time, it was like
53:34just read. Like that's what I always
53:35used to tell him. I'd always tell him to
53:37like I I tell people to read about
53:38everything. Reading is so good for you.
53:40So he
53:42at this time is telling you that yeah I
53:45am the guy trying to save the marriage
53:47and she doesn't want it.
53:48>> That's what he told me. That's what he
53:49told me. So um and he Yeah. And then he
53:54was like she doesn't want it so I'm not
53:56going to do it. And then it was like
53:58we're filing for divorce. We're selling
53:59the house. And this was like all as soon
54:02as they were come back from North
54:03Carolina. Like boom boom boom boom boom.
54:04>> Would you recall when he gets back from
54:06North Carolina?
54:06>> No. I don't even know how long he was
54:08out there. I know it was like less than
54:09two weeks and more than one.
54:11>> Okay.
54:11>> I don't remember.
54:12>> So, he was he comes back early August.
54:14Would that be fair?
54:15>> Oh, yeah. It was definitely like in the
54:17first two weeks somewhere.
54:18>> All right.
54:19>> Probably the second week of August at
54:20some point. And then I don't remember
54:22when.
54:22>> Does his wife come back with him at that
54:24time or does
54:24>> Yeah, they all came back.
54:25>> They all come back at the same time.
54:26>> They all came back. Um and then uh yeah,
54:30so he he
54:33continues to just, you know, tell me
54:35that this is like what he wants and and
54:37so I took the time and you will see that
54:39in the text too where I like like there
54:42like I found this apartment. It was
54:43perfect. It was so cute. I was like it's
54:45in your price range. It's like 6 miles
54:47from the gym. It's 23 miles from work.
54:50I'm like, you know, it's super close to
54:52Frederick. It's going to be by your kids
54:54school. like this is this is the spot,
54:57you know, and and and I told him I was
54:59like, I'll keep looking for more places.
55:00And he's like, well, there's some that I
55:02want to go see, too. And he actually had
55:04me thinking that he was going to go look
55:06at these places this week
55:09>> before all this.
55:10>> Okay. So, this is fairly recent then.
55:12>> This just happened like in the last
55:13>> He's going to go look at apartments.
55:15>> He wanted me to go.
55:16>> When you say this week, are you saying
55:18>> Monday was the 13th?
55:20>> Like this week. Okay.
55:21>> Yeah. So, I told him I was like, "Well,
55:23pick out a few spots and if you want me
55:26to come with you, I'll go look at them."
55:27But you you know,
55:29>> you said earlier that he had never um or
55:32that the the apartment wasn't for you
55:33and him. It was just for him and his
55:35children. Oh, yes.
55:36>> It wasn't You weren't had no intentions
55:37of moving in with him.
55:38>> No, I have my own spot. I still have a
55:40lease there till July. And even then,
55:43like, he never asked me to move in with
55:44him.
55:45>> And I never tried to move in with him. I
55:48mean, I told him I mean,
55:52I really try to take everything with
55:53this whole situation very slow. The only
55:55part that I screwed up on was the fact
55:57that he wasn't completely separated from
55:58her when him and I decided to spend time
56:02with each other. That is where I screwed
56:04up. But other than that, everything
56:06else, it was always like,
56:08you know, you build your life, I'm going
56:10to build my life, we will intertwine
56:12them, but I am not ready to like do
56:15this. And he respected that. And I and I
56:19um I even said that and I don't know
56:21that might be in the text but said that
56:23two words like Chris like you need space
56:26like you're just getting out of a
56:28divorce. Like personally I think jumping
56:30into a new relationship is a little
56:32quick. It's like I was in a relationship
56:34earlier this year and I think this is
56:37also a little quick. And I'm like so why
56:39don't we take our time? And I'm like, if
56:41you guys end up doing a week on, a week
56:42off with your kids, I'm like, the week
56:44you have your kids, be with your
56:46children. And the week that you don't,
56:48I'm like, I don't even want to see you
56:50every day. I'm like, I think we should
56:51spend like a few days of that together.
56:54I'm like, cuz I like my space. And I
56:56think you need your space. I think you
56:57need your space to like develop your
56:59identity again and like get it back
57:00because I think he's just been like so
57:03wrapped up in this whole thing that he's
57:05got in his own life in his life that he
57:07I mean he doesn't remember probably what
57:09it's like to like be single or have time
57:10where it's like just him.
57:13>> And so I was just like, you know, like
57:15embrace that. I think it's a beautiful
57:16thing. And I really try to like take it
57:18smart with all that. And it was the same
57:20thing with his kids. It was just like,
57:21you know, like and I and we talk about
57:24things every once in a while where, you
57:25know, I'd be like, "Hey, if I ever meet,
57:27you know, cuz like I have a lot of house
57:28plants." That's a good example. So, I
57:30have a lot of house plants. And I told I
57:32told him I was like, "One day if I ever
57:35meet your kids," I was like, "I'm going
57:37to show these girls how to like paint
57:39pottery and plants plants." I was like,
57:40"I think they would love to see
57:42something grow that they build. I think
57:43it would be really, really cute." And
57:45like little stuff like that, but it
57:47wasn't very frequent. It wasn't, "Hey,
57:49we should get married." and hey, we
57:50should have babies and hey, I want to
57:52live with you and hey, I need to meet
57:54your children now and let's cut the mom
57:56out. It was never like that.
57:57>> And that was there was never any
57:59conversation about, you know, we can't
58:01do this with her around. We can't do
58:02this with the kids around. He never said
58:04that. You never said that.
58:06>> No. So there the
58:10the
58:12way you guys were trying to make this
58:13work was just
58:16you know slowly trying to come together
58:18because of his current situation and you
58:21by your own account your own
58:23>> mine
58:24>> you're just a independent person it
58:27sounds like pretty much
58:28>> and uh but through text message or
58:31through conversation he never said hey
58:35uh you know this isn't going to be
58:38financially able I'm not going to be
58:40financially able to do this or this
58:42isn't a good thing I got these kids none
58:45of those conversations ever came up
58:47>> no I mean he told me like he had a
58:50budget restriction so for his apartment
58:52and I'm pretty sure this is in the text
58:53and this will probably be in the last
58:54couple weeks um he told me 1 to400 when
58:58I was asking him like because I told him
58:59I'd held him do homework I was like you
59:01do some homework I'll do some homework
59:02we'll knock this out because if you guys
59:04are for real putting the house of you
59:06got to figure it out. Um, and so that
59:11was his budget. And I remember asking
59:13him, I was like, "Are you sure you don't
59:14want to just get like a house?" And he's
59:15like, "I never thought about a house."
59:16I'm like, "Yeah, you can rent houses,
59:18man. Like, it's a thing." And he's just
59:20like, "I don't know if I can afford
59:22that." I was like, "Okay." And I knew
59:25that those two had been through some
59:26financial trouble. I definitely found
59:28out a lot more about that situation in
59:31the newspaper recently. Um,
59:34>> okay. So, prior to the newspaper, how
59:35did you know he was in financial
59:37difficulty?
59:38>> Cuz he I mean I when I went to that
59:41house,
59:43everything in there is very very very
59:45very nice. It looks like it all comes
59:47with a very expensive price tag. And uh
59:51I didn't say anything to him about it,
59:53but I could kind of tell them where I
59:54was like just looking at everything like
59:56how do you guys afford this? And then he
59:59has that car. I don't even know how much
1:00:01that car costs. But I bet what car is
1:00:03it?
1:00:03>> That Lexus. I'm sure that thing costs
1:00:05like 80 grand, but just like money. Like
1:00:08everything just looked like it costs a
1:00:09lot of money in that house.
1:00:11>> You probably have a decent idea of how
1:00:13much money he makes.
1:00:14>> Yeah. And it's not enough money to pay
1:00:16for all that. Not even clothes.
1:00:18>> Did you have any idea what um Shannan
1:00:21did for a living or how much money she
1:00:23might have made?
1:00:24>> I mean, I had an idea. I don't I mean, I
1:00:26would consider her like a sales rep. I
1:00:28don't know how else to describe that. um
1:00:31for the company that she worked for and
1:00:34uh I don't know exactly how much she
1:00:36made. He said that she was really
1:00:37competitive and she liked to try to keep
1:00:38up with them. He's like she gets close
1:00:40sometimes. So I don't know how much
1:00:42those two brought in. I mean off the top
1:00:43of my head if I could guess probably
1:00:45somewhere around like 140k a year. I
1:00:47mean I don't know cuz I don't know
1:00:49exactly how much he makes and I don't
1:00:51know exactly how much she makes but
1:00:53based just off of like what I know about
1:00:54the oil field like yeah I I would say
1:00:57that's probably an accurate estimate.
1:00:58>> So he Yeah. Even if they're making,
1:01:00let's just use the figure, $100,000,
1:01:03they're living above their means or
1:01:05below their means.
1:01:06>> Oh my god. Like
1:01:07>> way too much.
1:01:08>> Way way way.
1:01:09>> Did he ever discuss with you any of
1:01:11those issues?
1:01:12>> I mean, a little. I mean, I didn't know
1:01:13about the bankruptcy or any of that till
1:01:15I read on the newspaper about that. But
1:01:17he just I think he was really frustrated
1:01:20with the situation. Um he told me he's
1:01:22like, you know, I feel like my paycheck
1:01:24goes in my bank account and I just watch
1:01:25it go like this. He's like, but it
1:01:27doesn't have to. He's like, "She makes
1:01:28it like that." And I was just
1:01:30>> So, was he resentful for that?
1:01:32>> I don't know if he was resentful. I just
1:01:34think he was frustrated by the fact that
1:01:36they could be doing a lot better
1:01:38financially and she from the vibe that I
1:01:41got had really bad spending habits.
1:01:44>> So, she was a spender. Um, the car hers
1:01:48or his?
1:01:49>> I think it's hers.
1:01:50>> Okay.
1:01:50>> I'm pretty sure that that's hers.
1:01:52>> Do you know what other car they might
1:01:54have? Well, I mean, his APC pickup truck
1:01:57>> and that's that's it. I think
1:01:58>> that's owned by Anad Darkco though,
1:02:00right?
1:02:00>> Yeah. So, I don't I don't think they own
1:02:03any other vehicles as far as I know. I
1:02:05think it's just that thing
1:02:06>> and and Anadarko doesn't allow him to
1:02:08drive that on his own personal time.
1:02:10Right. So, he's just got one vehicle.
1:02:12>> Yep.
1:02:12>> Um and it's a very expensive Lexus. Um
1:02:16and then they live in a pretty expensive
1:02:18house.
1:02:19>> It's a huge house.
1:02:20>> I was very taken back when I saw it. I
1:02:22was just like, whoa.
1:02:24how
1:02:25>> and then the fixtures inside caused you
1:02:27to pause.
1:02:28>> Everything everything was just like
1:02:31>> And then you mentioned today you read
1:02:32something about uh bankruptcy.
1:02:34>> Yep.
1:02:35>> What did you read?
1:02:36>> That those guys filed bankruptcy for a
1:02:38lot of money in
1:02:39>> Who are those guys?
1:02:41>> That couple.
1:02:42>> Okay.
1:02:42>> In 2015. Oh, Shenan and Chris filed
1:02:45bankruptcy in 2015.
1:02:47>> Okay. And you said for a lot of money.
1:02:49Do you recall the amount? No, because it
1:02:52was different in each of the newspapers
1:02:53and I don't know which one to believe.
1:02:55So, hundreds of thousands of dollars.
1:02:59So, um yeah, I didn't know that.
1:03:03>> Let's go just back to him and the
1:03:05financial. He tells you, he has a
1:03:09concern enough to at least express some
1:03:11con something to you that he's
1:03:13frustrated with the way she spends or
1:03:15he's upset with working so hard and
1:03:18never having any money and she's kind of
1:03:20the responsibility. She's the
1:03:22responsible party for spending most of
1:03:24the money.
1:03:25>> I I pretty much got that vibe. I mean,
1:03:27he just told me he's like, "We're house
1:03:28broke all the time." I was just like,
1:03:30"That's unfortunate." And I asked him, I
1:03:33was like, "Do you have 401k?" And he was
1:03:35like, "Yeah." And I mean, the reason I
1:03:37ask him this is because if I get into a
1:03:40relationship with somebody, I want to
1:03:42know like what kind of baggage that they
1:03:44have. I think that's important. If I
1:03:46walk into a situation where I'm like,
1:03:47"Hey, I have good credit and I have all
1:03:49these things that I've been building and
1:03:53you don't have your stuff together.
1:03:55Like, what are we going to do with
1:03:56this?" And it's important for your your
1:03:58long-term. You're
1:03:59>> smart.
1:04:00>> So, I'm preparing. And so, I just asked
1:04:02him. I was like, "Well, do you have
1:04:03401k?" And he was like, he was like,
1:04:06"Yeah, I do have that." And then I asked
1:04:08him, I was like, "Um, I I didn't ask him
1:04:12like how much debt they had or anything,
1:04:14but I just said, "Is your lifestyle
1:04:15sustainable?" And he was like, "No."
1:04:18Okay.
1:04:18>> And I was like, "How long you think
1:04:19that's going to take?" He's like, "I
1:04:21don't know, but it's not sustainable."
1:04:22>> Where did his girls go to school?
1:04:24>> I don't know. He never actually told me.
1:04:26Like when I gave him I asked him once.
1:04:28It was like when I was trying to find
1:04:29him in an apartment. I was like, "Are
1:04:32you comfortable telling me where your
1:04:33girls go to school?" That's in the text,
1:04:35too. I was like, "So I can figure out
1:04:36what distance from the apartment is." I
1:04:39was trying to just make his life
1:04:40convenient with like him, his ex, his
1:04:43kids, and all the stuff that he needs to
1:04:45do and work. Um, and he was like, "Don't
1:04:49worry about it. Their school's pretty
1:04:50centrally located, so anywhere in the
1:04:53area that we were discussing will be
1:04:55fine." And he just left it at that. So,
1:04:56he didn't even tell me, which was fine.
1:04:58I respect that. Daycare is obviously
1:04:59very expensive for a two and three and
1:05:025-year-old.
1:05:02>> Oh, yeah.
1:05:03>> Right. So,
1:05:04>> I don't understand.
1:05:05>> Did he ever bring uh any Did he ever
1:05:07discuss that?
1:05:08>> Never.
1:05:08>> Okay.
1:05:09>> Never.
1:05:10>> Um uh like the only like I said, the
1:05:13only financial thing he ever said is
1:05:14just like she just likes to spend money
1:05:16like a lot of it. So, that was just kind
1:05:17of the vibe that I got from that and
1:05:19that it was just it was a lifestyle that
1:05:21she liked to live like very
1:05:25>> like materialistic kind of lifestyle.
1:05:28wanted to project a certain image.
1:05:29>> Yes. All the time. And he said that that
1:05:32was why they got that house, too. He's
1:05:34like, "She wants everybody to think that
1:05:36we live a certain way and that we can
1:05:38like sustain all this stuff." And he's
1:05:39like, "And we can't." And I told him, I
1:05:41said, "When you're in those situations,
1:05:44why don't you?" I'm like, "Do you do you
1:05:47like voice your concern about this?" And
1:05:50he told me, he's like, "When I try to
1:05:52talk to her, he's like, "She's really
1:05:54bossy and she usually shuts me out." And
1:05:56he's like, "When she does that," he's
1:05:58like, "I just let it go." And I just
1:06:00like, "All right." I mean, I don't I
1:06:02don't try to like interfere with how
1:06:04those two interact. But I did ask about
1:06:07it cuz I'm just curious cuz I would
1:06:09never put myself in a situation where
1:06:11someone was like, "You know what? We're
1:06:12going to live in this house that costs
1:06:13like double what we can afford and
1:06:15that's how it's going to be cuz I want
1:06:16everybody to think we're fancy." Cuz I
1:06:19wouldn't do that. I mean, to me, like I
1:06:21wouldn't put up with somebody doing that
1:06:22to me. And I'm not saying that that's
1:06:23what she was doing. I mean, for all I
1:06:26know, he could have been completely
1:06:27lying about this. He could be the one
1:06:29spending all the money.
1:06:30>> Sure. You know,
1:06:30>> this is just what he told you.
1:06:32>> Exactly. So, I mean, that's as far as I
1:06:34can interpret it. So, I can't be like,
1:06:35well, oh, she needs to do this and she
1:06:37needs to do that. But he, you know, he
1:06:39just he voiced his concern where it's
1:06:41just like financially I'm in a very bad
1:06:44spot that I don't need to be in, but I'm
1:06:48stuck in. And that was kind of where he
1:06:50was at. So, but I mean, he was never
1:06:52like mean when he talked about her. He
1:06:54was never hostile like nothing like
1:06:57that. He just I mean very calmly like
1:06:59this is the situation. And I think the
1:07:01only reason that he even provided me
1:07:03with that information is because I
1:07:05asked.
1:07:06>> Okay. You said something um about her
1:07:11being controlling or
1:07:13>> bossy.
1:07:14>> Bossy.
1:07:14>> That's what he said.
1:07:15>> Um
1:07:16>> bossy
1:07:17>> in like all aspects of their life or
1:07:20what you know exactly what he meant by
1:07:22that. how that affected him.
1:07:25>> I think he was just saying when he
1:07:26voices his opinion, it's not heard
1:07:30is is the gist of that, which I thought
1:07:33from what it sounded like from their
1:07:34separation, from them trying to separate
1:07:37that
1:07:39that was a big deal for him where he was
1:07:41saying that the reason that they don't
1:07:44really get along anymore is because he
1:07:45feels like he's not heard. He says that
1:07:48he,
1:07:49>> you know, he comes home from work and he
1:07:51tries to talk to her and she'll just be
1:07:52like, "One minute, I'm on the phone." Or
1:07:54she'll like scroll through social media
1:07:56and she like doesn't acknowledge him.
1:08:00And um he said that he'd addressed it
1:08:03with her a few times and they're calm.
1:08:05He said they don't really like fight
1:08:07like they don't scream and yell. Um and
1:08:10he said he'd addressed it with her a few
1:08:12times and he said it just fell on deaf
1:08:14ears. He's like, "She just seems like
1:08:16she's not interested anymore." And I
1:08:18think it made him sad because
1:08:22I mean he was like all about his kids
1:08:24and he seemed like he was trying to be
1:08:26all about her but it just wasn't
1:08:27reciprocated. And I think at that point
1:08:29he was just like I don't
1:08:33it's just they just kind of like fell
1:08:36apart.
1:08:37>> Okay.
1:08:37>> Just kind of drifted apart.
1:08:38>> Was that your was that your words or
1:08:40his?
1:08:41>> What the
1:08:42>> fell apart? that off of those are mine.
1:08:44>> Okay,
1:08:44>> those are mine.
1:08:45>> He just said that they didn't
1:08:47communicate very well
1:08:48>> and it wasn't in a like a aggressive way
1:08:53communicate. It was just the fact that
1:08:54they didn't like communicate at all.
1:08:56>> They just they didn't talk.
1:08:59>> They had children and they did did was
1:09:01there ever mention that he was trying to
1:09:04resolve or save his marriage to for the
1:09:07children's sake? A lot of people talk
1:09:10about that. Did he talk about that? I
1:09:12mean, he told me that he believed that
1:09:14the only reason that those two had still
1:09:16been doing it as long as they've been
1:09:17doing, cuz he told me that her and him
1:09:21have had communication issues for about
1:09:246 years where she just seems really like
1:09:27detached and uninterested in like trying
1:09:30to like build something with him. Um,
1:09:35and he said, and I said, 6 years is a
1:09:38really long time for you guys to not fix
1:09:40that considering they were married for
1:09:42what, eight? I mean, that's like the
1:09:45majority of their marriage. And he said,
1:09:48um, sometimes I think we just do it for
1:09:50the kids or something like that. I mean,
1:09:52it's been a long time since I had some
1:09:53of these conversations, so I don't know
1:09:55like verbat, but but it was pretty much
1:09:57just like
1:09:57>> get you to remember some things.
1:09:58>> Yeah. Like, but he said it wasn't just
1:10:00him, though. He was like, I think she
1:10:03does that too.
1:10:04>> You know, I mean, and it was like this
1:10:06equal part where they are just kind of
1:10:09>> like going through the motions, I think.
1:10:12>> Mhm.
1:10:12>> And so, like, when he told me that she
1:10:15was cool with like the 50% everything
1:10:17and just like breaking it off and being
1:10:20really civil about it, it it kind of
1:10:22made sense to me cuz I was like the way
1:10:24he made this sound, it wasn't, oh, she's
1:10:26this horrible person or, "Oh, I'm this
1:10:28horrible person." and it was her and I
1:10:30have drifted so far apart that it's kind
1:10:32of a mutual agreement that this not
1:10:34going to work.
1:10:35>> So in those six years though they had
1:10:37two children.
1:10:38>> Yep.
1:10:38>> Um and you said earlier you did not know
1:10:41she was pregnant until reading the
1:10:43newspaper.
1:10:44>> So um that never came up in any
1:10:47conversation.
1:10:49>> Um there was no
1:10:51no indications that that was going on.
1:10:54Um he never hinted to anything like
1:10:56that. As far as you knew,
1:10:59>> um he was just leaving her. He had two
1:11:02children and um that was the final take
1:11:06on that.
1:11:07>> Yes. I think I know why he lied to me.
1:11:10He lied to me because if I'd have known
1:11:12that he had a child on the way, I'd have
1:11:14never wasted my time with him in the
1:11:15first place. Like none of this would
1:11:16have even occurred if he would have just
1:11:18told me the truth.
1:11:20So, do you think if he found out that
1:11:22you um
1:11:24if let's say this week you guys were to
1:11:27go look at some apartments, and this is
1:11:28hypothetical, but you um
1:11:33you've never found out that his wife was
1:11:36pregnant,
1:11:37would would that have changed anything?
1:11:41Uh like you just said, if I knew he was
1:11:43his wife was pregnant, I wouldn't be in
1:11:45this picture. So, if his wife was not
1:11:48pregnant, um, and forgive me, but if if
1:11:52if he takes her out of the picture,
1:11:54you're never going to know that she was
1:11:56pregnant, right?
1:11:58>> What do you mean takes her out of the
1:11:59picture? Like,
1:11:59>> if he murdered her, she's out of the
1:12:02picture. You're never going to know if
1:12:03she was pregnant. If he can get away
1:12:05with murder,
1:12:08you're not going I got divorced from my
1:12:10wife. You say, do you understand what
1:12:12I'm saying here? If if she's gone,
1:12:14>> but this
1:12:15>> don't lead
1:12:16>> hypothetically,
1:12:17>> please.
1:12:18>> Hypothetically, if she Okay, you
1:12:20understand where I'm going. If you
1:12:22didn't know,
1:12:23>> you're leading into questions that are
1:12:25nothing with your
1:12:26>> If you didn't know, though.
1:12:27>> Wait, Nick,
1:12:29>> that she was there.
1:12:30>> Did you hear what I said?
1:12:31>> I'm not I'm following you. I just want
1:12:33her to answer a question that relates to
1:12:36she said something that's important that
1:12:39if he didn't have a child on the way or
1:12:42if he didn't if she didn't know that she
1:12:45would have continued the relationship
1:12:47right
1:12:47>> what he killed his kids at what point
1:12:49does he think that I'm going to continue
1:12:51I'm not talking about the children I'm
1:12:53just talking specifically about her if
1:12:57and if if you only knew if the kids were
1:12:59still here and he called you and said,
1:13:02"I'm divorced from my wife and he gets
1:13:06away with this."
1:13:08Do you understand what I'm thinking from
1:13:10his aspect?
1:13:11>> I still wouldn't do it. I still wouldn't
1:13:13do it cuz I'd be like, "Where did she
1:13:16go?"
1:13:16>> Okay.
1:13:17>> Because I'm under the impression that
1:13:19she's a really good mom. Like, he never
1:13:22bashed her moming skills. Like, he No.
1:13:27No. I wouldn't. No.
1:13:28>> Okay. No.
1:13:29>> And that's that. Do you see where I'm
1:13:31trying to take that? Yes.
1:13:32>> So, he never You guys never had a
1:13:35conversation about the child, period.
1:13:38>> I didn't know at all.
1:13:40>> All right. And by your words, if you did
1:13:43know, you would have ended the
1:13:44relationship.
1:13:45>> Well, because it wouldn't have made
1:13:46sense to me that he's like, I'm getting
1:13:48separated. Oh, by the way, I have a baby
1:13:50on the way. It's like 15 weeks.
1:13:52>> You are a liar. You're just trying to
1:13:55sleep with me. That's what I would have
1:13:57probably interpreted that as. And I'd
1:13:58have just shut that off at work and that
1:14:00would have been the end of it. Okay. Um,
1:14:03all right. We can move past that. Um,
1:14:07the
1:14:09week that he comes back from North
1:14:10Carolina, you you don't remember.
1:14:12Somewhere in the first couple weeks of
1:14:13August.
1:14:14>> Yeah. I think it was the second week,
1:14:15but I don't remember off the top of my
1:14:16head.
1:14:17>> So, we'll just use August as a time
1:14:19frame. Is that fair? Because you know he
1:14:21left in July and he comes back in
1:14:23August. How many times do you think you
1:14:25see him?
1:14:26>> I saw him a few times. I saw him this
1:14:28past Saturday. I saw him the Wednesday
1:14:31before that and he wanted to see me
1:14:33more. I was the one who wanted my space.
1:14:35I was like, "Nope, your kids are home.
1:14:37Go hang out with your kids." And even on
1:14:40Wednesday, I cut it short. Like he came
1:14:42and hang out with me for a few hours and
1:14:43then I was like, "Go chill with your
1:14:45kids."
1:14:46>> Okay.
1:14:46>> Um I was always like, "Dere you know
1:14:48specifically where you guys went? Did
1:14:50you meet at your house? Did you guys go
1:14:52to uh any restaurants? Did you go to
1:14:54establishments?" Um, last Wednesday he
1:14:58came to my house and this past Saturday
1:15:02we went to um, what was the name of that
1:15:05bar that we used to go to? It's not the
1:15:07same the lazy dog, but it's the one off
1:15:09of 144 and I 25. I think it's 144 up
1:15:14there.
1:15:14>> And it's the lazy dog.
1:15:15>> Yes.
1:15:17>> Um, did he ever mention a Rocky's game
1:15:20that night?
1:15:22>> Um,
1:15:23no, I don't think so. But there was a
1:15:26there was a um
1:15:28the Broncos were playing.
1:15:30>> Okay.
1:15:31>> Which we couldn't see because they sat
1:15:32us in really crappy spots, but it's okay
1:15:34because it's preseason. But um
1:15:37>> So you do you recall what time you went
1:15:40there?
1:15:43>> No, I remember. Well, kind of. So he had
1:15:45to get a babysitter that night.
1:15:47>> Do you know who that was?
1:15:49>> Uh somebody who's really young. I
1:15:51remember I asked him who his babysitter
1:15:52was and he's like, "We have two." This
1:15:54girl's only 17, but the other one's out
1:15:56of town. So, this girl's going to stay
1:15:59and she doesn't do overnights, so I got
1:16:01to be back by 10:00. I don't remember
1:16:03her saying that and him saying that. And
1:16:05I I don't know what time he got to my
1:16:07house. It was between I want to say like
1:16:095:30. It might have been 5:00, but I
1:16:11don't think so cuz I think the
1:16:12babysitter, if I remember correctly,
1:16:14showed up at like 4:30 or something and
1:16:16he was like, I want to spend time
1:16:18getting my kids acclimated to her and
1:16:21then I will come. So her ch his his
1:16:23children didn't even know her.
1:16:24>> Oh no, they knew her, but he was saying
1:16:26like he likes to like stay there for a
1:16:28little while. He doesn't just like walk
1:16:30out the door when we show up. It's like
1:16:31a transitional thing.
1:16:33>> And so um that's why I'm saying I don't
1:16:36know how long I was. I want to say like
1:16:375:30 and then he had to be back by
1:16:3910:00. So he left at like 9 something to
1:16:41be back by 10.
1:16:42>> So how picked you up? What was he
1:16:44driving?
1:16:44>> No, he didn't pick me up. He came to my
1:16:47house. We drove my truck.
1:16:49>> Okay. So you he gets to your house. you
1:16:51know what he was driving to get to your
1:16:52house?
1:16:53>> Um, off the top of my head, I don't
1:16:55remember. Um, I'm pretty sure he usually
1:16:59drives that Lexus, but he doesn't always
1:17:01park it in my complex cuz the parking
1:17:04there's not good spaces. So, where you
1:17:06guys pick me up at, a lot of times he'll
1:17:08just park out there because there's
1:17:10room.
1:17:11>> Okay.
1:17:11>> Um, so that kind of works so that he's
1:17:14because there's just not a lot of room
1:17:15in my apartment complex. Um, but off the
1:17:17top of my head, I don't know what he was
1:17:19driving. What kind of truck do you
1:17:21drive?
1:17:21>> I drive a uh Toyota 4Runner.
1:17:24>> Okay. So, you guys take your 4ERunner to
1:17:28the Lazy Dog.
1:17:29>> Yep.
1:17:29>> And you said they sat you in crappy
1:17:32location. Where where were you inside
1:17:34the
1:17:34>> We were when you walk in, you just hang
1:17:36a right. And we were like one of the
1:17:37first two booths on the right. When you
1:17:38walk in the door, you just It's just not
1:17:40a good It's a good spot, but just not
1:17:42for the TVs.
1:17:43>> And we actually went to the other lazy
1:17:45dog. We went to the one that you and me
1:17:46go to. Where's that at? Federal and
1:17:49>> 20th. It's 120th in Federal and we went
1:17:51there and they have a different menu and
1:17:54I was like I don't want to eat this food
1:17:57>> so we should go to the other one.
1:17:58>> So initially you go to the 120th
1:18:00location. Did you actually get seated?
1:18:02>> Uh kind of sort of. They were like
1:18:04cleaning off a table and we were
1:18:05standing there just kind of looking at
1:18:07the beer menu and the food menu and I
1:18:09was like I don't want this. He and so we
1:18:10left
1:18:11>> 6:00
1:18:12>> probably somewhere around there 600 6:30
1:18:15and then we left and went to the other
1:18:17one and we ate dinner
1:18:20>> and you're in like first or second booth
1:18:21right to the right of the door.
1:18:23>> I'm just asking because if they have
1:18:25video we want to be able to verify that.
1:18:27So that's why it's important.
1:18:28>> Um and you're there for how long?
1:18:31>> Um I don't know. Probably we didn't stay
1:18:33for dessert so I don't know how long's a
1:18:35restaurant take like an hour and a half.
1:18:37>> You know I've never been to the lazy
1:18:38dog. I don't know, probably about an
1:18:40hour and a half and then uh we went back
1:18:43to my house for a little bit, hung out
1:18:45at my house um for a little while and
1:18:47then he had to leave and then he left.
1:18:50>> Do you recall what time he left?
1:18:52>> I was out of my head. No, I remember he
1:18:55was like going to be late to be back at
1:18:5710:00. I think there's a text message
1:18:58where he starts texting me when he's
1:19:00home at his house.
1:19:02>> Okay,
1:19:02>> so you can probably figure that out. And
1:19:04I remember I texted him back and I was
1:19:06like, "Damn, that was quick." Or, "Wow,
1:19:07that was really quick." He's like,
1:19:08"Yeah, I even had time to stop at the
1:19:10ATM or stop at the gas station, stop
1:19:12somewhere to get money to pay the
1:19:14babysitter."
1:19:15>> Okay.
1:19:16>> Um, and I was just like thinking like,
1:19:18"Well, that was really fast." Um, but I
1:19:21think he was still like a little late
1:19:22coming back, but nothing too drastic.
1:19:24So, he probably left my house like
1:19:26somewhere around 9:30ish.
1:19:29>> All right. And you know, he goes
1:19:31straight home. He texts you. Um,
1:19:34>> well, I was already home,
1:19:35>> right? No, he text you. He goes straight
1:19:37home from your house and he texts you
1:19:38that he's home.
1:19:39>> So that should be in your text message.
1:19:40It
1:19:40>> it should be. I'm pretty positive that
1:19:42was not a phone call. I'm almost
1:19:43positive that was a text. Sometimes I
1:19:45get him flip-flop or I don't remember,
1:19:46but sometimes I know. I'm pretty sure
1:19:48that one was a text
1:19:50>> Saturday
1:19:52during your dinner. Um what what kind of
1:19:55conversation did you guys have?
1:19:59I know. Oh, I uh
1:20:03so he's been trying to like eat a little
1:20:06healthier than he normally does. And
1:20:09he's always like been in the working out
1:20:10since I knew him. And he like tries to
1:20:12eat clean,
1:20:14but he was trying to like step it up a
1:20:17little bit. And nothing like the people
1:20:19who do like the competitions and the
1:20:21shows that are all super restrictive. It
1:20:22was nothing like that. It's just like
1:20:24dayto-day general maintenance, but it's
1:20:26how I eat and it's pretty healthy. and
1:20:28um he's been losing a lot of weight. He
1:20:31lost
1:20:33I want to say like 13 lbs in the time
1:20:36that we were hanging out. And honestly,
1:20:39when you start eating a little bit
1:20:40cleaner and you start working out a
1:20:42little bit harder the first couple
1:20:44months, especially for a man, cuz they
1:20:46lose weight faster,
1:20:48it's not something that's like that
1:20:50drastic to me, but it did stand out that
1:20:53it was like a little much. And so I was
1:20:55like, whoa, like maybe you're not eating
1:20:57enough
1:20:59macronutrients, so let me look at them.
1:21:02So he had been working on his My Fitness
1:21:04Pal app and like programming like all
1:21:06the stuff he eats. And I just started
1:21:08going through them and I was like trying
1:21:10to figure out like where his ratios
1:21:13were. And we actually spent a lot of
1:21:14time doing that because he had asked me
1:21:15to do it for him. Um because I just was
1:21:18at the point where I was like if his
1:21:20weight loss slows down in a few weeks
1:21:23he'll be fine and if it doesn't then his
1:21:26macros are a little off. It's not like
1:21:27that big of a deal like in the workout
1:21:29community this is like a very normal
1:21:31thing. But I
1:21:31>> did you have any other outside concerns
1:21:33like potential drug use, alcohol use,
1:21:36any of that stuff that that led you to
1:21:39go lost extreme amount of weight in such
1:21:41a short period of time?
1:21:42>> No. And I wouldn't call it extreme. It
1:21:44was just like it it was it was a lot.
1:21:47But I mean I when I first started
1:21:49working out I dropped like 12 lbs in two
1:21:51weeks when I first first started like
1:21:53hitting it hard with the diet. So the
1:21:56fact that he lost like that much weight
1:21:58it wasn't like I said it was it was not
1:22:01a surprising amount. I just didn't want
1:22:03it to be like a sustained amount. But
1:22:05no, I didn't think anything weird of it
1:22:07just because of like how inner knitted I
1:22:10am with the like workout community. And
1:22:13I know like this is possible. But it
1:22:15just he the thing that concerned me
1:22:17about it I guess it wasn't even
1:22:19concerned but the thing that like kind
1:22:20of redlighted me like hey this might be
1:22:23carrying on is the fact that his macros
1:22:26were like pretty dialed in. Like I had
1:22:29wrote them and he like didn't stay
1:22:32exactly on them but his calorie intake
1:22:34was about where it needed to be. My
1:22:36experience anyways for like
1:22:39what he was trying to achieve. And so I
1:22:42don't know, he didn't seem to have a
1:22:44problem with it. He liked where he was
1:22:46at with all of that.
1:22:47>> So that was your main conversation
1:22:49Saturday.
1:22:49>> That was like a big chunk while we were
1:22:51there is like us actually going through
1:22:53cuz I was like going through each item
1:22:55like why do you have why are your ratios
1:22:58off?
1:22:58>> Do you know where his kids or wife were
1:23:00that night
1:23:01>> on Saturday?
1:23:02>> Yeah, his kid Well, you know his kids
1:23:04are with the babysitter. Do you know
1:23:05where his wife is?
1:23:06>> She's in Arizona.
1:23:07>> Okay. How do you know that?
1:23:08>> Cuz you told me.
1:23:10>> Okay. She know what she's doing there.
1:23:12>> I think she's on a business trip. He
1:23:14didn't even tell me right away. He
1:23:15actually told me I think like on
1:23:17Saturday or something. It might have
1:23:19been like Friday or something. I don't I
1:23:21honestly don't remember. I just remember
1:23:23I was like really surprised where he's
1:23:24like, "Hey, like I'm going to try to get
1:23:27a babysitter if you want to hang out or
1:23:29something like that." And I was like,
1:23:30"Why do you need a babysitter? Like your
1:23:32wife's home." He's like, "No, she's out
1:23:33of town." Like, "Oh,
1:23:35>> okay."
1:23:35>> Okay. Is there much conversation
1:23:37regarding that her on being on a trip
1:23:40for the children on during those
1:23:42conversations?
1:23:43>> Not really. I just asked him what time
1:23:45she was coming home on Sunday and he
1:23:46just said really late.
1:23:48>> Okay.
1:23:48>> And that was it. I mean there's nothing
1:23:50really to talk about with that.
1:23:52>> Okay. So your conversation's mainly
1:23:54health related. Mhm.
1:23:57>> Um you guys return to your house and
1:23:59then he goes home and then you talk to
1:24:02him for um a few hours on Sunday.
1:24:06>> Did I Are you asking me or you talking?
1:24:08>> I'm asking you.
1:24:09>> Oh, I was like I don't even know.
1:24:12Sunday, honestly. Oh, on So, wait a
1:24:15minute. That was Saturday. This is the
1:24:16We're talking about Saturday. We're not
1:24:18talking about Sunday right now.
1:24:19>> Okay. So, you're still on Saturday?
1:24:20>> Yes.
1:24:20>> You guys have a phone conversation when
1:24:22he gets home?
1:24:23>> That was the day that he got the
1:24:24babysitter and I went out to dinner. Not
1:24:26Sunday.
1:24:26>> Okay.
1:24:27>> Okay. Sorry. I just want to make sure
1:24:28you got your days right. So, Saturday,
1:24:30yes, we went out. He had the babysitter.
1:24:31He went home. I'm sure we did. We always
1:24:33talk on the phone. And honestly, I mean,
1:24:35Mark asked me that the other day. He's
1:24:37like, "How long are you on the phone? 15
1:24:38minutes? 20 minutes?" Like, you're going
1:24:39to have to look at the records to be
1:24:41honest with you. Like, I so much.
1:24:43>> You like to talk. I can tell a little
1:24:44bit.
1:24:44>> Yeah.
1:24:47>> 400. When she was young, she'd crank out
1:24:50about 400 words a minute. Gusts up to
1:24:53600.
1:24:55a little in the air. Man,
1:24:56>> you're a talker, so I'm I'm letting you
1:24:58talk. Use the restroom. Let me show you
1:25:00where it's at.
1:25:01>> Some water while you're out there with
1:25:02me, please. Thank you.
1:25:04>> Another bottle.
1:25:05>> Yeah, at least one.
1:25:06>> Let's move to Sunday. Well, let me
1:25:09reverse something. Your conversation
1:25:12with the children or about the children.
1:25:14Was there ever talk about medical
1:25:17concerns with either of the children?
1:25:19Well, I know Cece is allergic to
1:25:23pe not peanuts, like pine nuts. Pine
1:25:28nuts.
1:25:28>> So, she has a nut allergy.
1:25:29>> Yes.
1:25:30>> Did they take meds?
1:25:32>> Yeah, I know that she had like an
1:25:33EpiPen, but as far as I know, she didn't
1:25:35have any meds, but I never asked. Like,
1:25:37I was just told like she has a pretty
1:25:40severe allergy and
1:25:42>> enough to carry an EpiPen. That's pretty
1:25:43severe.
1:25:44>> Yeah. while we're on this. So, when he
1:25:46was in North Carolina, um
1:25:50this is all like hearsay now because
1:25:52it's like this is not a conversation.
1:25:54Like he's telling me this stuff, but who
1:25:56knows exactly what happened. But he went
1:25:58out there to go see his family and her
1:26:00family. And while he was in town before
1:26:03he went out to North Carolina, I guess
1:26:05his mother had accidentally like not
1:26:10exposed her to something with nuts, but
1:26:13had like given a product, I think it was
1:26:16like ice cream to a different kid that
1:26:19could have traces of nuts or something.
1:26:21I don't know. But it was like his
1:26:23daughter was fine, but she was like in
1:26:25the range of contamination.
1:26:28And I think his wife was very upset
1:26:31about that. And when he got to North
1:26:34Carolina, he told me that he was
1:26:36supposed to spend like half the time
1:26:37with them, half the time with her
1:26:39family. And that was supposed to be what
1:26:40it was. I don't know. But he said that
1:26:43he went to go see his family and they
1:26:45weren't answering the phone for like a
1:26:47day or two before he went out there. And
1:26:49then when he got there, there was a note
1:26:50on the door that said, "Uh, son, if you
1:26:53step by, we're at the beach."
1:26:55And they ignored him for like most of
1:26:58the time that he was out there. And
1:27:00>> his own family.
1:27:01>> Yes. His mom, his dad, his sister.
1:27:04>> What's the significance? Do you know
1:27:06under do you know why?
1:27:07>> Yeah. He said, and again, I don't know
1:27:09what is true with this man anymore and
1:27:11what's not. But he told me that like
1:27:15leading up to it, I was like, "Well, why
1:27:16are your folks like ignoring you?" And I
1:27:18was like really concerned about this.
1:27:19Like every single day, he would talk to
1:27:21me when he was out there. And I was
1:27:22like, "You talked to your family today?
1:27:23You talked to your family today? Did you
1:27:24talk to your dad? What happened? Did you
1:27:26talk to him? No, I didn't. Or, yeah, I
1:27:28talked to my mom. Well, what' she say?
1:27:29Are you going to hang out with him?
1:27:30Like, I wanted him to see his people
1:27:33because it's important. Family is an
1:27:35important thing, you know? It just needs
1:27:37to function properly. And
1:27:39>> and so I was like, well,
1:27:42um,
1:27:44and he was like, well, they're ignoring
1:27:46me. And I was like, what do you think
1:27:47happened? and he's like, "I'm not really
1:27:48sure, but I think
1:27:50um something was said between my wife
1:27:53and them during that incident." And he's
1:27:56like, "Because every time
1:27:58that happened before he got there." Yes.
1:28:00And he's like, "Because every time that
1:28:02I try to um
1:28:05I talk about possibly going over there
1:28:07to see if they're home,
1:28:09she gets upset about it." And I was
1:28:11like, "Okay." And he told me that his
1:28:13mom and his wife did not get along at
1:28:16all. He said that his mom didn't even
1:28:17show up to his wedding because she's
1:28:20like really did not care for Shannan. So
1:28:25again, I don't know what's true and
1:28:26what's not, but I just know that there
1:28:28was like some tension there. And again,
1:28:30like that part is like I feel like it's
1:28:33almost third party. So that's why it's
1:28:35>> Well, but it came from him to you, so
1:28:37it's not. It is something that I um is
1:28:40>> whether it's important or not, we can
1:28:42validate that. I I'm sure we will be
1:28:44having some conversations with family.
1:28:46Um you know it what does it mean? I
1:28:49don't know. Um but
1:28:51>> yeah I don't know either but I just know
1:28:53>> so maybe she you know I don't know.
1:28:55Well, and then um he ended up seeing
1:28:57them on the last like full day that he
1:29:00was there. And they told him supposedly
1:29:03that she had gotten really upset and
1:29:06then screamed and yelled in front of his
1:29:09Chris's sister's kids that are very
1:29:11young and to his mom and to his dad and
1:29:13said like, "You're never going to see
1:29:15Chris again. You're never going to see
1:29:16me. You're never going to see the
1:29:17babies." And just like threatened them
1:29:19and then like walked off. And I guess
1:29:20that was the incident
1:29:23that happened prior to him coming out
1:29:24there and then she didn't tell him about
1:29:26it.
1:29:27>> She just like let it go and then he just
1:29:30spent all week trying to figure out why
1:29:31his family was like
1:29:33>> not trying to be involved.
1:29:34>> Gotcha.
1:29:35>> Um so again I'm not sure that was like
1:29:38it just feels really third party so it's
1:29:40hard for me to like talk about because I
1:29:41don't know how much
1:29:43>> validation. So be beyond the the not
1:29:46allergy for CC, did you know of any
1:29:48other Did she take meds that you know of
1:29:50other than carrying an EpiPen?
1:29:52>> His kids or his wife?
1:29:54>> No. His children?
1:29:55>> No.
1:29:56>> And now, well, if you know anything
1:29:58about his wife's medical conditions, if
1:30:00she had any?
1:30:00>> No. I've like read in the newspaper,
1:30:02they keep saying, "Oh, she had medical
1:30:04conditions." And I'm like, "Is that a
1:30:05misprint? Are they talking about CC or
1:30:07is that just something else I don't
1:30:08know?"
1:30:09>> So, you don't know anything about Shenan
1:30:11having any kind of medical problems?
1:30:13>> Nope. Okay.
1:30:17Covered Saturday. So, there's a phone
1:30:19call Saturday night actually. Um, from
1:30:23No, it can't be Saturday. It had to be
1:30:24Sunday. I wrote that down quickly.
1:30:27Sunday night.
1:30:29Is there anything else you think? Let's
1:30:30Let me just back up. From the Saturday
1:30:33where you guys had a meal at at the lazy
1:30:36dog to prior for the six weeks that you
1:30:39guys were serious. And um although your
1:30:42dad's here and I think you're probably
1:30:43pretty comfortable, your relationship
1:30:45with Chris was Can you describe your
1:30:49relationship?
1:30:51>> I mean, when he was with me, I
1:30:52considered it to be fairly healthy, was
1:30:54open communication
1:30:57and it was what I thought was honest and
1:31:01it was very calm. It was respectful. Uh
1:31:05we got along really well. He gave me my
1:31:07space when I needed it. I gave him his
1:31:10and anytime like he wanted to take care
1:31:13of it like anytime that his kids could
1:31:15be in like his life for hours or days or
1:31:19whatever whenever they were home I made
1:31:21sure that I wasn't a presence in his
1:31:23life so that he could be the best dad
1:31:25that he needed to be. Um and I mean I
1:31:28thought what we had it was very
1:31:31comfortable for me. I enjoyed it. I
1:31:33think he did very much as well.
1:31:36You guys, you six, eight weeks, two
1:31:38months, whatever it was, you guys have
1:31:40an intimate relationship during that
1:31:42time.
1:31:42>> Yes.
1:31:43>> Okay. So, you're you're pretty serious.
1:31:46Um, did he ever tell you that he loved
1:31:49you?
1:31:49>> Yes, he did.
1:31:50>> Did you ever tell him the same?
1:31:51>> A couple times.
1:31:52>> Okay.
1:31:53um notwithstanding that today because
1:31:56that may those thoughts may have changed
1:31:58for you but on let's go Mon Sunday into
1:32:02Monday or Monday did you did you still
1:32:05love him on those days? I think it was
1:32:07something where it was like I I said it
1:32:10a few times and I meant it, but he
1:32:13definitely felt the urge to say it to me
1:32:15a lot more than I did to him because it
1:32:17was just all very new to me and it was
1:32:19like take your time with this. Like you
1:32:21don't need to
1:32:24to like rush that, you know? Like I
1:32:26remember when he was in North Carolina
1:32:28and he was like trying to patch things
1:32:29up with his wife and he told me he loved
1:32:31me and I was like don't say that to me.
1:32:33like please go try to fit and I mean and
1:32:36that might even mean in the text too
1:32:37where it's like don't don't like don't
1:32:39say those words to me and then go try to
1:32:42make peace with your life and lay in bed
1:32:44with another woman like just don't do
1:32:46that and I was like it's not that I
1:32:47don't appreciate what you're saying to
1:32:49me it's like just
1:32:52it just didn't sit right for me you know
1:32:54so I just feel like
1:32:55>> almost like an insecurity where he had
1:32:57to say that to you or
1:32:58>> I I don't know I think he he like
1:33:03looking back at all this now, I don't
1:33:04think he was trying to fix things with
1:33:06her. So saying I love you to me seemed
1:33:08like probably something that he
1:33:10genuinely meant. Like I love this woman
1:33:13and regardless of where he was going to
1:33:15end up that night, but to me and the way
1:33:18that I was perceiving things, he had
1:33:20told me that he was trying to fix things
1:33:22with her. So it's just like this is an
1:33:24inappropriate time. And I wasn't mad at
1:33:25him. And I'm pretty sure that's in the
1:33:26text, too, where it was very like calm,
1:33:29but it's just like it's almost
1:33:30disrespectful where it's like please
1:33:32don't. I'm like, you know, if we get to
1:33:33that point where it is you and me, like,
1:33:36yes, you can say that, but don't not
1:33:40like that's
1:33:40>> So, you thought he was very genuine when
1:33:42he said that.
1:33:44>> I Yeah, I did. I mean, and he wrote it.
1:33:47It's in all those cards I gave you. Not
1:33:49in all of them, but like the later ones.
1:33:52>> And
1:33:53>> thank you.
1:33:54>> When you said it to him, you said you
1:33:56meant it when you said it.
1:33:57>> Yes. I just didn't say as frequent as he
1:33:59said it. Like sometimes he would say it
1:34:00and I was just like for me it was still
1:34:03like very very new. So I kind of like
1:34:05took my time and only said it when I was
1:34:06just like this is a really important
1:34:09moment.
1:34:10>> So you got I mean in the short period of
1:34:11time that you guys were together he
1:34:14>> Yes.
1:34:14>> was became very attached to you.
1:34:16>> Yes. Very very
1:34:18>> He's sending cards.
1:34:20>> He's telling you he loves you. He sends
1:34:22you flowers. Does he buy you any other
1:34:24gifts?
1:34:24>> I wouldn't have wanted them anyways.
1:34:26That's Flowers is enough. You can't. I
1:34:28don't need expensive stuff.
1:34:29>> Okay.
1:34:30>> But he becomes very attached.
1:34:31>> Yes.
1:34:32>> Um you guys are talking multiple times a
1:34:35day at least. You're
1:34:38>> you're seeing each other on a regular
1:34:39basis.
1:34:40>> Um so it it's a very
1:34:44and and his wife is not around nor are
1:34:46his children. So there's a lot of time
1:34:48for you guys to build your relationship
1:34:50in this first four four weeks or so. Is
1:34:53that fair?
1:34:54>> Yeah. And even when she she was back, I
1:34:56mean, it was still like we were still
1:34:58spending time together. He was still
1:34:59spending time with his children. And I
1:35:01had my own life. Like I mean, there was
1:35:03one week where I just like went out of
1:35:05town for my with my friends for my
1:35:06birthday. I wasn't even around the whole
1:35:08like
1:35:10last few days of June up until the 3rd
1:35:13of July. I was like gone, you know? And
1:35:15then there was another like a last
1:35:18weekend I had a friend impromptu come in
1:35:20town from out of state and I hosted her
1:35:22uh for a few days and it's like it
1:35:27like I still did my own thing all the
1:35:29time like whether he was there or not
1:35:31like if my friends were like hey we want
1:35:32to make plans I would tell him like
1:35:34we're not hanging out today cuz I want
1:35:35to go see my mom or my dad.
1:35:37>> Did your friends know about him?
1:35:38>> Nope.
1:35:40>> Why?
1:35:42because it's like he's with two women
1:35:45right now. They don't need to know
1:35:47about.
1:35:47>> So, if you had a boyfriend of four to
1:35:49eight weeks on a regular
1:35:52>> I don't know if you were married prior
1:35:54or if you had a boyfriend before, but if
1:35:56you had a steady boyfriend, you would
1:35:58have let people know. I think you told
1:36:00me before we got started that you you
1:36:03just told your dad about Chris.
1:36:06>> I wouldn't have told people. It's too
1:36:08early. I mean, people
1:36:09>> So, you don't tell your friends, hey, I
1:36:10got a boyfriend. People come and go. I
1:36:13mean, dating scene these days is like it
1:36:15sucks. I mean, so no, I wouldn't I mean,
1:36:18it would have to be something even
1:36:19>> with Sean. I think I was with Sean for
1:36:21probably like six or seven months before
1:36:24I brought him home to my family. I mean,
1:36:25I really same with that was the guy I
1:36:27was in a previous relationship with. But
1:36:29I
1:36:30>> But this one you were a little bit more
1:36:31You said he's with two women. Did that
1:36:34was that one of your considerations for
1:36:36not telling anybody about him?
1:36:37>> Yes. Well, I mean, it was like, okay,
1:36:39like this
1:36:41to me, it wasn't going to be an extended
1:36:43thing. Like, if it got to the point
1:36:45where we were like dating for like three
1:36:47or four months and he's still talking
1:36:49about, oh, I'm going to move out and I'm
1:36:50going to sell the house. I think at that
1:36:51point, I probably would have just been
1:36:52like, I don't think you're really like
1:36:55doing these things you say you're going
1:36:56to do. And I probably would have just
1:37:00like left because at that point, it's
1:37:02not fair. It wasn't fair to me in the
1:37:04first place. It wasn't fair to her in
1:37:05the first place. It wasn't fair to any
1:37:07of us in the first place, you know. It
1:37:09wasn't fair to his family for him to
1:37:13have an affair. It wasn't fair to me to
1:37:16have him lie to me and make me think
1:37:18that everything is going to plan. And
1:37:21still to this day, I don't even know
1:37:22what's a lie and what's not. I don't
1:37:24even know if they were like filing for
1:37:25divorce. I don't know if they were
1:37:27putting the house up. I don't even know.
1:37:28I don't even know anymore what is real
1:37:31and what is not. But what I do know is
1:37:33it's just like, you know, that wasn't
1:37:35fair to me either because if id have
1:37:36known not even all the truth, but like
1:37:40obviously some of it, I wouldn't have
1:37:42even engaged in any of this in the first
1:37:44place. And it just I mean, and that's
1:37:45the part for me just like on my personal
1:37:49level outside of everything that is
1:37:51happening that
1:37:54is going to affect me long term. It's
1:37:57like, you know, I'm going to wake up
1:37:58every day and know that like this mom
1:38:01and her unborn child and these two
1:38:03little girls are not around anymore. And
1:38:05it breaks my heart. It is, oh my god.
1:38:09And and
1:38:12then I have to think about like the
1:38:14consequences of his actions and how they
1:38:16affect everybody else. Like all of these
1:38:19her family's impacted. My name is about
1:38:22to be like slandered for probably a
1:38:25while. I don't know how long it's going
1:38:26to take to heal, but I would not be
1:38:28surprised if it's going to be hard to go
1:38:29out in public sometimes for a couple of
1:38:31years. And that really hurts me. I'm
1:38:33just like, this is a horrible, horrible
1:38:35thing. Like, how dare you? You know, and
1:38:37and people aren't going to understand
1:38:38that, you know? They're going to say,
1:38:40oh, you know, you're the woman that had
1:38:43an affair with this man who took out his
1:38:45whole family. And I take a step back and
1:38:48it's just like
1:38:51I didn't know. Like I I
1:38:56it's
1:38:58He's so disgusting. I'm so ashamed of
1:39:01him and everything. And I just
1:39:06Oh, those little girls.
1:39:10They're so little. They're so little.
1:39:13>> We talked uh
1:39:15we talked a little bit earlier about
1:39:17getting some help for these things and
1:39:19we can provide that. Okay.
1:39:23at at really no cost through
1:39:26>> one more. We just want to make sure uh
1:39:29there's resolution.
1:39:30>> Absolutely.
1:39:31>> That's why we come to you guys to pound
1:39:32this
1:39:33>> and
1:39:33>> pound it down. There's nothing.
1:39:35>> I'm sorry that you're talking again
1:39:37today. I really am. I don't want to put
1:39:39you through any more trauma than you've
1:39:41already been through.
1:39:42>> There is um
1:39:45reasons for everything that we're doing
1:39:48today and what what occurred. And I'm
1:39:50sorry. I genuinely am sorry. I it these
1:39:53are not things that we'd like to do
1:39:55twice. It's the same thing with other
1:39:57types of victims from other crimes. We
1:39:58want to do it once and we want to be
1:40:00done. Unfortunately, we didn't know
1:40:01yesterday um what we know today and
1:40:04that's why we're here because we need
1:40:06this video. And I'm I am sorry because I
1:40:08know it's hard to talk about it,
1:40:10>> but it's so sad. And she's pregnant
1:40:16>> and you know on on our end we didn't.
1:40:19They're so cute. They're so little.
1:40:21Like, wow.
1:40:24Why? Why? Why? Why? How? I don't even
1:40:27understand how you could like bring
1:40:29yourself to do that to somebody who's
1:40:31like that big.
1:40:50[Music]
1:40:59Jesus.
1:41:03>> Do you want to step out for a minute?
1:41:04>> No, I just need to chill with my eyes
1:41:06closed for a sec.
1:41:12I still cannot believe this is
1:41:13happening.
1:41:20>> All right, let's keep going cuz we're
1:41:22just getting to the the meat of this
1:41:24whole
1:41:24>> Let's get to the phone call on Saturday
1:41:26from 9 to 11.
1:41:28>> What did you guys or pardon me on Sunday
1:41:31from 9 to 11?
1:41:33>> Yeah, we talked a few times. So,
1:41:37>> Sunday I think. So, I need to think. I
1:41:40can't even think.
1:41:41>> Take a couple breaths and take a take a
1:41:43second.
1:41:46>> I mean, I
1:41:48I don't even know. I don't think I was
1:41:51like concerned about anything at that
1:41:53point.
1:41:54>> You guys had had a meal, a nice meal the
1:41:56night before. You knew his wife was
1:41:58probably coming home late that evening.
1:42:00>> Oh, um, you know what?
1:42:02I still don't remember what we talked
1:42:04about. I like honestly like we talk
1:42:06about so much random stuff. Like it's so
1:42:08hard to pinpoint some of these things.
1:42:10Um
1:42:12I don't remember what we talked about. I
1:42:13do remember that was a long phone
1:42:15conversation though. We probably talked
1:42:16about all sorts of stuff. Um one thing I
1:42:19do remember though
1:42:21>> um but I didn't remember earlier when I
1:42:22was talking to Mark. So this is like
1:42:24where I'm starting to remember like
1:42:25little bits and pieces. I I don't
1:42:27remember. Yeah, I know. So the phone
1:42:29conversation
1:42:31>> I don't remember what was in the phone
1:42:32conversation. probably nothing of
1:42:34relevance to be honest with you, but um
1:42:37usually he talks to me when he's like
1:42:40down in the basement in his bed before
1:42:41he goes to bed and before I go to bed
1:42:44and I could hear the TV on which I
1:42:46thought was kind of weird. I didn't ask
1:42:48him. I just heard it in the background
1:42:50and I remember thinking and it was like
1:42:51right before we got off the phone. I was
1:42:53like why the hell is he up and there's
1:42:55like no TV downstairs so I was like well
1:42:57maybe I don't
1:42:58>> So no TV in the basement where he
1:42:59usually calls you from.
1:43:00>> Yeah. And I don't know how many TVs they
1:43:02have. Like I've never been in their
1:43:04bedroom. Like I went upstairs once and
1:43:06it was like to their little playroom and
1:43:08I just like looked at it and I was like
1:43:09that's super cute that your girls have
1:43:11books and that was like it. And other
1:43:14than that I have never been in any of
1:43:15those rooms in that upstairs. Like to me
1:43:17it was just like you don't know like
1:43:20ever. I had no So I don't know if any
1:43:22has any other TVs. I'm assuming by like
1:43:24how much other nice stuff they have in
1:43:26their house it wouldn't surprise me. So,
1:43:27I'm not quite sure what room he was in
1:43:29at that point. Um, but I just remember
1:43:33hearing the TV and I was like, it was
1:43:36just weird to me cuz I was like, why are
1:43:38you watching TV right now? It is like
1:43:40super late. And that was the only thing.
1:43:43He he had phoned you or were you guys
1:43:47already talking when the TV was going or
1:43:49>> I just remember like I like
1:43:52picked up on it like later, but I don't
1:43:55think it was like throughout the whole
1:43:58conversation. Like I just remember it
1:44:00being towards the end cuz I remember
1:44:01thinking like, "Wow, it's really late."
1:44:04>> The um somebody didn't ask you about the
1:44:07house because you'd been there twice and
1:44:08it just made me remember. Do you
1:44:10remember how you guys accessed the
1:44:12house?
1:44:14Uh, that's a good question. Uh, so
1:44:19once through the garage
1:44:22and I think once through the front door.
1:44:24>> I think the first time was through the
1:44:26front door. I think
1:44:28>> and I think the second time was through
1:44:30the garage.
1:44:31>> Was there anything unique about either
1:44:32of the doors when you went into the
1:44:34house that
1:44:37might not be typical of another house?
1:44:40>> Like a unique door? Not the door itself.
1:44:43>> Okay. There's There's a camera on the
1:44:45Which door?
1:44:46>> It's on the front door, isn't it?
1:44:47>> Um I don't know. I'm asking.
1:44:49>> I think so.
1:44:50>> I don't know. Um
1:44:53>> was Did he use a key to access the
1:44:55house?
1:44:57>> No. Um
1:45:00he did not. The first time I went over
1:45:02there, he
1:45:04just let me in. And then the second
1:45:06time, did we go through the garage? I
1:45:08don't remember. I've been through his
1:45:10garage before. I went through his front
1:45:12door once though cuz I remember he had
1:45:14just cleaned it was the first time I
1:45:15went through his front door cuz he had
1:45:16just cleaned his carpets and he had
1:45:19moved all the furniture out of the way
1:45:20and the furniture was kind of in the way
1:45:22of the door and he's like the door
1:45:24doesn't open all the way right now. I'll
1:45:26move all the furniture back when the
1:45:27carpet dries. So, I do remember that
1:45:29just kind of off-handedly. Uh and the
1:45:31second time I want to say we went
1:45:33through his garage cuz I remember his
1:45:36garage. I remember Yeah.
1:45:39Yeah.
1:45:40>> So, he was at the house when you went
1:45:42there. Um, you were never there by
1:45:45yourself.
1:45:45>> He was at
1:45:46>> or he took you there?
1:45:48>> He the first time he was already there
1:45:50and I met up with him and the second
1:45:52time we went there together.
1:45:54>> So, the front door I asked if he had
1:45:56used a key.
1:45:58>> He let me in.
1:46:00>> Okay. So, there's a um you know those
1:46:03keypads where you can enter a access
1:46:05code. Do you remember seeing that on his
1:46:06door? Like I want to say vaguely, but to
1:46:08be honest with you, I don't remember.
1:46:10Like he let me in that day. That's
1:46:12>> So he never gave you he never gave you
1:46:14the code to access his home?
1:46:16>> No.
1:46:16>> Okay.
1:46:17>> Not at all.
1:46:17>> Um you talked about a security system.
1:46:20Uh there was a camera on the front door.
1:46:23>> Was that just like a you know what a
1:46:26Ring doorbell is that goes to your
1:46:27phone?
1:46:29>> I don't even know what it looked like. I
1:46:30only know that it existed either because
1:46:32a I wasn't paying attention the first
1:46:34time I was over there, but B because of
1:46:36all the stuff that's going on right now.
1:46:37That's the only reason I
1:46:38>> Did you remember seeing any cameras
1:46:40anywhere in the house?
1:46:41>> No.
1:46:42>> Okay. Did he ever tell you about the
1:46:44alarm system or give you an access code
1:46:46to the alarm system?
1:46:47>> I wouldn't have asked for that. I
1:46:49wouldn't have wanted that anyways.
1:46:50>> Sorry to regress to that.
1:46:52>> No, you're back to the the phone call or
1:46:56where you noticed the television in the
1:46:58background of the phone call.
1:46:59>> Yep. So, I didn't know what room he was
1:47:00in, but I was just like I just thought
1:47:02it was weird cuz he's always like before
1:47:05I go to bed and I lay down, he's always
1:47:07like kind of trying to do the same
1:47:08thing. We just talk. It's like a really
1:47:10chill thing till one of us is about to
1:47:12pass out and then that's like the end of
1:47:14it. Um, but it was strange cuz I was
1:47:16like the TV's on. I remember I was
1:47:17thinking I was like maybe he's waiting
1:47:19up for her and I was like maybe not. I
1:47:23didn't know. I didn't It wasn't
1:47:24something that like alerted me. It was
1:47:26just different from his standard
1:47:28operating procedure because whether his
1:47:31wife is home or she's gone,
1:47:34>> he's always got kind of like the
1:47:35standard op when he calls me. So that's
1:47:39why it was kind of like unique.
1:47:42>> Okay.
1:47:42>> Because it doesn't really fluctuate when
1:47:44she's there and when she's not there.
1:47:45He's pretty like free reign with what he
1:47:46does.
1:47:49So, anything anything important that you
1:47:51recall during that conversation about
1:47:54the children, about his wife, about what
1:47:56he was doing the next day, what he had
1:47:59planned, anything like that. Did he tell
1:48:01you any of that information?
1:48:02>> I remember he told me he had to go to
1:48:04the field and not to the office on
1:48:06Monday morning.
1:48:07>> Okay. Did he specifically say where he
1:48:09needed to go on Monday morning?
1:48:10>> No, I don't ask him for those sites.
1:48:12There's like Anna Dargo's got like
1:48:14thousands of sites. If he were to tell
1:48:16me, I wouldn't I wouldn't even
1:48:17>> They're just like random numbers and
1:48:18stuff, right?
1:48:19>> Well, he told me he said, "I got to go
1:48:20to a site. I got to go um check out like
1:48:23a valve or something where they think
1:48:26that they had a release." Something like
1:48:27that. Um
1:48:28>> did he mention the town or anywhere?
1:48:31>> No. No. He just told me that that's what
1:48:33he had to go do. He's like, "Yeah, he
1:48:35was like, I won't see you in the office
1:48:37in the morning cuz I usually I see him,
1:48:38but I don't actually like talk to him.
1:48:40Like I will go in the cafeteria. I will
1:48:42put my lunch in the fridge and him and
1:48:45his whole team are sitting in there and
1:48:46I don't talk to any of them. I just walk
1:48:47out. Um, but anyways, yeah, he's like,
1:48:51"So, I won't see you. I'm going to the
1:48:52field." Which is not an uncommon thing
1:48:54for the ops guys to like just go
1:48:56straight to the field. Like, it happens.
1:48:58Like, typically they go to the office, I
1:49:00would say, like
1:49:03three or four days a week, but there are
1:49:04days where him and his other team
1:49:07members are not there. or like I'll get
1:49:09in there and some days the the cafeteria
1:49:11is packed and they're all there and
1:49:12other days I get in there and there's
1:49:13only like three or four of them.
1:49:14>> So it didn't cause you any concern that
1:49:16he's like I'm going to the field on
1:49:17Monday. I won't see you. That wasn't
1:49:19>> No,
1:49:20>> that's happened before.
1:49:21>> Yeah. I mean it wasn't something I mean
1:49:22and it's not just him. It's like that
1:49:24whole team like you can just tell when
1:49:26they've got like a lot going on cuz I'll
1:49:27walk in and there'll be like two of them
1:49:29as opposed to like six or seven.
1:49:30>> Do you know what he did Sunday during
1:49:32the day?
1:49:33Um,
1:49:36I don't even know what I did on Sunday
1:49:38during today. I am so tired. Let me just
1:49:41think about this. Daniel came over
1:49:42Friday. I hung out with him Saturday and
1:49:45then Sunday.
1:49:50>> When did Jim come in?
1:49:52>> Monday.
1:49:54>> Jim got here Monday.
1:49:58What did I do on Sunday?
1:50:00I am like drawing a blank. I'm really
1:50:02tired. I don't know. Can I get back to
1:50:05you on that?
1:50:06>> Did you guys have any conversations on
1:50:08Saturday night during your meal? What he
1:50:10might be doing on Sunday?
1:50:12>> I'm sure we did. I don't know why I'm
1:50:14drawing a blank cuz I haven't slept.
1:50:16>> If I say that his he may have uh done
1:50:20something with his children, would that
1:50:21refresh your memory?
1:50:23>> He went to a birthday party.
1:50:24>> Okay. Um do you know whose house he was
1:50:26going to?
1:50:27>> Nope. But I know that they had a water
1:50:29balloon fight.
1:50:31Okay. He He had one or his children?
1:50:34>> His children did. He said he used to get
1:50:35really into it. He said he got like
1:50:36really interactive with his kids. He's
1:50:38like, "Some of the adults don't really
1:50:39spend a lot of time playing with the
1:50:40kids, but
1:50:40>> I went to the museum on what day?
1:50:42Saturday or Sunday?"
1:50:43>> Sunday.
1:50:43>> Okay.
1:50:44>> That's right. So, I just was like, "Was
1:50:45I hanging out with you?" God.
1:50:48>> Very memorable event, huh?
1:50:50>> We me and him and my my stepmother and
1:50:54my sister went to uh the museum. And
1:50:57that's right. uh the Denver Museum of
1:50:59Nature and Science and they went to
1:51:01brunch prior to that and I skipped
1:51:03brunch um and I went to the gym.
1:51:07>> You shouldn't have. It was good.
1:51:08>> I had to do cord day. That was the last
1:51:10time I worked out actually. Um
1:51:12>> that's what we did Sunday. Okay.
1:51:13>> Yeah. So, Cord and then we we went to
1:51:15the museum and then
1:51:19um
1:51:21>> when did you did he tell you about the
1:51:24water balloon flight on Sunday evening
1:51:26during your conversation on the phone?
1:51:28>> I think so.
1:51:29>> Okay. So, you don't know whose house he
1:51:31went to on Sunday? No.
1:51:33>> Um but you knew it was for a child's
1:51:35birthday.
1:51:36>> Yeah. And he had told me about that in
1:51:37advance really. So, I don't know if it
1:51:39was Saturday that he had told me that he
1:51:40was going to go that birthday or like
1:51:42Friday. I just remember he was like, I
1:51:44got to go to this birthday party with my
1:51:46kids.
1:51:47>> Um, any other conversation that makes
1:51:49sense?
1:51:50>> I mean, honestly, at this point, I'm
1:51:53really tired, so I know there are
1:51:55certain things that I need to tell you
1:51:56guys that we'll get to as these days
1:51:57progress.
1:51:58>> Um, but in all honesty, if it doesn't
1:52:02stand out to me now, probably wasn't
1:52:05relevant.
1:52:06>> What about that 9:00 thing you were
1:52:08telling me on Monday?
1:52:09>> Oh, that he told me.
1:52:12Oh yeah. Well, we'll get there. We'll
1:52:13get there. We're still on Sunday.
1:52:14>> So, we're on Sunday.
1:52:16>> We're gonna get We're gonna get
1:52:17>> This is gonna be a long
1:52:18>> We're gonna get there to Monday. We're
1:52:19We're getting there.
1:52:21>> So, Sunday night or Sunday during the
1:52:23day, you had your own personal um stuff
1:52:27going on
1:52:28>> with your family.
1:52:29>> You never see him on Sunday. Is that
1:52:31accurate?
1:52:32>> No, I didn't see What did I do the rest
1:52:34of the day? I came home.
1:52:37I think I might have just chilled at my
1:52:39house. I don't remember. I think I clean
1:52:41my house. I don't know. I didn't see
1:52:43him, though.
1:52:44>> Okay. And
1:52:45>> yeah, Saturday was the last time I saw
1:52:46him.
1:52:48>> Okay. Sunday, you're at home. You talk
1:52:51to him from We know you have a
1:52:53conversation in the late evening hours
1:52:55and then you go to sleep.
1:52:57>> Um on Sunday night.
1:53:00>> When's the next time you talk with
1:53:01Chris?
1:53:02>> Probably Monday morning.
1:53:04>> Do you know what what time?
1:53:06>> No. I mean, so we used to like randomly
1:53:08text each other like throughout the day,
1:53:10but we both get really busy. So some
1:53:12days like I don't hear a lot from him
1:53:14and some days I don't text him until
1:53:16like 2:00 in the afternoon cuz I'm just
1:53:18like busy. And I I remember I didn't
1:53:21hear a lot from him that day. Uh which
1:53:23was like that's not out of the normal
1:53:25for either one of us um during the day.
1:53:28Um but at one point I do remember he
1:53:31like texted me and he's like, "Oh, it's
1:53:32been a really busy day." and then like
1:53:34said some other stuff which I'm sure you
1:53:35will find in my text what he said. I
1:53:37don't know. It wasn't obviously anything
1:53:39that was like alerting to me. That's
1:53:42what I'm saying. Like at this point like
1:53:44I remember really key things but if it's
1:53:45like a conversation that I'm like I
1:53:47don't remember exactly what was
1:53:48discussed cuz it was probably just
1:53:50[ __ ] like just talking to each
1:53:52other. Yeah.
1:53:53>> Small talk stuff.
1:53:54>> Yeah. Um,
1:53:57but I remember he was busy that day and
1:53:58we didn't talk that much. And then I
1:54:02I clocked out at 3:00 is what my time
1:54:04card says. That's what I was showing um
1:54:08Mark the other day. And I got home to go
1:54:13meet my buddy. One of my good friends
1:54:15was coming over my house. And he
1:54:17actually has a key to my house. So he
1:54:18was actually there when I got there.
1:54:21>> And who's that?
1:54:22>> My friend Jim. Um, and so Jim came over
1:54:27and
1:54:29I got home, he was there. He had like
1:54:31just walked in the door and um,
1:54:36I remember like briefly after he got
1:54:38there, I checked my texts. I mean,
1:54:41briefly after I met up with Jim, I like
1:54:43glanced at my text and Chris said
1:54:46something about like my family's not
1:54:49home or like my wife and kids aren't
1:54:52home. Like something to that effect and
1:54:55I told Mark cuz he asked me for a time
1:54:59and I don't have an exact time, but I
1:55:00remember it was like right after I
1:55:02walked in.
1:55:02>> That was a text message though.
1:55:04>> Yeah, it's in a text and it's like it
1:55:06was like briefly after I walked in the
1:55:07door. So, based off how long it takes me
1:55:09to get home from work and when I clocked
1:55:10out, it's probably about 3:45 p.m. Um,
1:55:13texts me and tells me that. And like he
1:55:16knows when I get off of work, too. So,
1:55:17he doesn't always bug me if I'm busy.
1:55:19So, I don't know what's up with that,
1:55:22but that's when he that's when he sends
1:55:24that to me. And um
1:55:26>> So, you're saying that he he would have
1:55:28known that you would have had your phone
1:55:29available to you and not been at work
1:55:31when he sent you that text message?
1:55:33>> Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. So
1:55:35looking back at it, you think it was
1:55:37purposefully sent at that time?
1:55:40>> I'm just asking your feeling on that.
1:55:42>> Yes. And then he said, "Call me when you
1:55:44can." And I was
1:55:45>> There was no other communication between
1:55:47you and him that morning on Monday
1:55:49morning.
1:55:49>> Well, there there was, but it was like
1:55:51random like
1:55:52>> But nothing about this event?
1:55:54>> No, no, no, no, no, no.
1:55:55>> About like my mom my wife's missing or
1:55:58no
1:55:58>> my anything?
1:56:00>> Nothing.
1:56:00>> Okay.
1:56:01>> Nothing. And you knew he wasn't coming
1:56:03to the office because he had told you
1:56:04that Sunday night.
1:56:05>> Yeah. And then he goes and so like
1:56:07they're only in the office for the
1:56:08morning. Like some days it's longer than
1:56:10others, but I would say by a maximum of
1:56:137:30 every single morning they are all
1:56:14gone and they don't come back unless
1:56:16they have like a meeting or something
1:56:17that they have to attend. So like not
1:56:19seeing him for the rest of the day is
1:56:20not like an unnormal thing. Like but
1:56:23like I'm saying like we don't really the
1:56:24only reason we interact was kind of like
1:56:26by an off chance thing. Like I don't
1:56:28work with him.
1:56:29>> Mhm. Um, so he uh, yeah, we talked like
1:56:34randomly throughout the day, but it was
1:56:35really sporadic and he seemed pretty
1:56:37busy, so we didn't talk too much. Like I
1:56:39said, didn't put too much thought into
1:56:40it. It happens all the time. Um, waited
1:56:43till about 3:45, then sent that text to
1:56:45me. And yes, he does know that I will be
1:56:47home at that point
1:56:49>> or getting home.
1:56:50>> Did you give Mark Jim's information?
1:56:54>> No, I would really like not like to
1:56:56involve him in this. He does not know
1:56:58about this. He didn't he was not like he
1:57:01doesn't know any of this is occurring.
1:57:03>> Okay.
1:57:04>> Like I was looking
1:57:04>> so he he knows certainly through the
1:57:07media that something's occurred.
1:57:09>> Yeah. He's town. He's probably has no
1:57:12idea. He doesn't know who Chris is. Like
1:57:13he's not I do not know.
1:57:15>> So he's just a friend of yours.
1:57:17>> Yes.
1:57:17>> Um
1:57:19>> that was coming to your apartment and
1:57:22doesn't know anything about Chris. Does
1:57:24he know anything about Chris?
1:57:26>> Nothing. Absolutely nothing. known Jim
1:57:28for
1:57:29>> he yeah
1:57:30>> years and years.
1:57:31>> You're not dating him or anything like
1:57:33that?
1:57:33>> No, he's like one of my very good
1:57:34friends. Like my dad knows him. He's a
1:57:36great guy. He just he he works out of
1:57:39state a lot. So when he's in town, um we
1:57:43hang out, but when he's in town and he's
1:57:44off of work to save time, I give him a
1:57:47key to my house. One, cuz I trust him
1:57:48and he's one of my best friends. And
1:57:50two,
1:57:51cuz uh sometimes he will just meet me
1:57:54there because I'll be like, "Hey, I'm
1:57:56getting off of work." And then if I get
1:57:58stuck in traffic or something, he ends
1:57:59up like sitting outside of my apartment
1:58:00waiting for me to get off of work. So
1:58:02I'm like, "Here's a key." And like my
1:58:04dog loves him and stuff, so no, he's
1:58:05not.
1:58:07>> The only reason I asked and I'm not
1:58:10really concerned uh about your location.
1:58:13Um I think we already have your cell
1:58:15phone records um at some point. Did Mark
1:58:18ask you to supply uh did they ask for
1:58:22consent to get cell phone records?
1:58:23That'll probably be done by warrant if
1:58:25we wanted. what you just did.
1:58:27>> Nope. What I'm talking about is your
1:58:28movement.
1:58:29>> Oh.
1:58:30>> Um, by GPS or by cell phone tower to
1:58:34show where you were, obviously,
1:58:38and I don't want to cause you concern.
1:58:40We want to know where you were that day,
1:58:41too. You're dating a man who did some
1:58:44egregious stuff, and we want to put we
1:58:46want to show that you were never near
1:58:47him that day. Period.
1:58:49>> I mean, you guys can track my
1:58:51>> No. Yeah. I mean, that that was
1:58:52something we will have to get a warrant
1:58:54for. Anyways, to I'm just saying if if
1:58:57we asked for it, would you have any
1:58:59objections to that?
1:59:00>> Oh, you can have it.
1:59:02>> So, um
1:59:03>> I'm a pretty boring person.
1:59:05>> Well, it sounds like you just went to
1:59:06work that day and then you came home and
1:59:08you were there at 3:45.
1:59:09>> Yeah, like give or take like five
1:59:10minutes, but yeah. So, 3:45
1:59:13and meet Jim there. Yeah, I was.
1:59:15>> And so Jim is a understand from an
1:59:18investigative point, he could be a
1:59:19person who could say, "Yeah, I was there
1:59:21at 3:45. I don't He doesn't know Chris.
1:59:23He doesn't know anything. He could say
1:59:25with one phone call, "Yeah, she came in
1:59:26at 3:45." Done. Totally.
1:59:28>> Do you know what I'm saying? And I don't
1:59:30have to ask anything more than, "Hi,
1:59:31Chris. My name's Kevin. I'm or Jim." And
1:59:34I'm not saying you have to give it to
1:59:35you.
1:59:36>> Leave Jim alone.
1:59:37>> If at some point,
1:59:39>> if at some point I needed Jim's info to
1:59:41let's say we couldn't find your phone
1:59:42records, would you tell me who I will
1:59:44give them to you?
1:59:45>> Would you tell me who Jim was if I
1:59:46could?
1:59:47>> If you had to. I don't really want to
1:59:48involve him in this. It's not fair to
1:59:50him. That's not No. if I do not have to
1:59:53do that.
1:59:53>> That's fine.
1:59:54>> Um, yeah. So, anyways, Chris was like,
1:59:57"Call me."
1:59:59>> And this is the 3:45 text.
2:00:01>> Yeah, he sent me like a few there. I
2:00:03think there was three of them and I
2:00:04don't remember what the other one said,
2:00:05but something about like, "Yeah, my
2:00:06family's gone." Or, "I don't remember
2:00:08verbatim, but call me when you can or
2:00:10have call me when you have a chance."
2:00:11Something to that effect. And so, when
2:00:14he told me, "Call me," I was like kind
2:00:17of alerted where I was like, "Okay,
2:00:19what's going on?" you know. Um, but
2:00:22first when he told me like his family
2:00:23was like not home,
2:00:26that didn't really seem odd to me that
2:00:28his family wasn't home, it was really
2:00:30vague. I'm like, okay. Like, are they at
2:00:33the grocery store? Like, elaborate. And
2:00:36so, you know, and then but he says,
2:00:37"Call me like it's like an emergency,
2:00:39but then just says but they're not
2:00:42there." And so, I'm like really like
2:00:44floored by the Well, not like floored,
2:00:46but just kind of like he says, "Call
2:00:48me." So, I'm concerned. and then he's
2:00:49really vague. So, I'm like,
2:00:52maybe he just wants to talk to me. I
2:00:54don't know. I think it took me a little
2:00:55while to like really process the
2:00:57severity of the situation just because
2:00:59this is not something that you expect to
2:01:01see every day and the way that he talked
2:01:03to me made me believe that this is not
2:01:06what was going on at all.
2:01:08>> Okay. So, you make a phone call to him
2:01:10and you guys have a conversation.
2:01:12>> I did. I stepped outside. This is 3:45
2:01:15>> ish. I mean, well, like I think I
2:01:17actually interacted with Jim for like
2:01:19probably a good 15 or 20 minutes. I
2:01:21mean, he's my guest. He's in my house.
2:01:23Um, so I don't think I called him right
2:01:25away, but like I mean, I'm trying to
2:01:27balance the fact that I have my friend
2:01:28here and then Chris is saying that
2:01:31something needs to be addressed, but to
2:01:33me it didn't sound like an emergency. I
2:01:35mean, it's all the time like people
2:01:37aren't home right now, you know? So, it
2:01:39just
2:01:41it wasn't like, "Oh my god, I have to
2:01:43take this call." It didn't register as
2:01:44being
2:01:45>> No, no. I mean, it just it was the way
2:01:47he said it and I was like, "Okay." So, I
2:01:50um I remember hanging out with Jim for a
2:01:53while and then I stepped outside and I
2:01:55made a call like out on my back patio
2:01:58and I called him and he didn't answer
2:02:00the phone and then he texted me back or
2:02:04no, did he answer the phone? I don't
2:02:06remember. I think he missed my call and
2:02:07then he called me back or he just
2:02:10answered. Either way, it was a very
2:02:12short talk to him where he was just
2:02:14like, I have to go.
2:02:17The cops are here. And I don't remember
2:02:18if he said that on the phone or over
2:02:21text. I don't even I'm so tired.
2:02:23>> That's fine. You don't need either way.
2:02:25It's just the context.
2:02:26>> Yeah. I mean, you guys will figure it
2:02:27out. The cops The cops are here and I'm
2:02:30just like, "All right." And then
2:02:35I remember we were like in like we were
2:02:37texting but I was like hanging out with
2:02:39my company. So it wasn't like a non-stop
2:02:41text. It was just kind of like I would
2:02:42check my phone every once in a while and
2:02:44we would communicate with each other.
2:02:46And he was just saying like they weren't
2:02:48there and that her friend Nikki was
2:02:50there and that her friend Nikki
2:02:55had called the cops.
2:02:57And I'm like why would this girl call
2:02:59the cops? And like I honestly do not
2:03:03remember the order of operations on all
2:03:06of this, but I'm pretty sure the
2:03:08majority of our conversation that night
2:03:10until my friend Jim left the house,
2:03:13which was probably pretty late. I don't
2:03:14even know what time, like 9 or 10, was
2:03:16all via text. So, you should have this
2:03:19via text. Like, I don't think we started
2:03:21talking again on the phone until like
2:03:24after my company left. Um,
2:03:28and he was like,
2:03:31Uh,
2:03:33I don't know. He just started like
2:03:35giving me details about stuff and I
2:03:37don't remember what order, but he was
2:03:38saying like Nikki was really upset and
2:03:40that the cops were there and that they
2:03:42were like searching the house and I was
2:03:44just like, "What?" You know, like what?
2:03:46Why? And he was telling me that um
2:03:50they had like had a disagreement or
2:03:52something like that. And then um he told
2:03:56me like she was going to go to a
2:03:57friend's house and I was like, "Okay,
2:04:00well maybe she left, you know, maybe she
2:04:04just like went to her friends." And then
2:04:06I think he I don't remember, but I think
2:04:08he was the one that told me that her
2:04:11cell phone and her purse were still
2:04:12there. I think he told me that.
2:04:13>> He told you her cell phone and purse
2:04:15were still there?
2:04:16>> I think he did. I don't remember. I
2:04:17don't
2:04:17>> What's the significance of that in your
2:04:20mind at that time?
2:04:23At that point, I thought this woman was
2:04:26really trying to get out of this house.
2:04:28>> Okay,
2:04:29>> that's what I thought cuz he said that
2:04:30they'd had a disagreement and I was just
2:04:32like, "Okay, well, I mean, I leave my
2:04:34cell phone at home."
2:04:35>> When he said disagreement, what did he
2:04:37tell you what it was about or
2:04:39>> Not at that point. Not at that point.
2:04:41So, um, again, like you guys are going
2:04:43to have to check these texts cuz it's
2:04:45all like my brain mashed potato right
2:04:48now. Um, but I remember him saying that
2:04:51and I'm just thinking like, well, maybe
2:04:53she was in a rush, you know, like maybe
2:04:55she was just like, I'm going to my
2:04:56friends. I'm leaving my cell phone here
2:04:58because I don't want you calling me. I
2:04:59don't want anyone else calling me. I
2:05:00mean, there are days where like when I'm
2:05:02outside of work, I will just shut my
2:05:04phone off. I just do it. And it's like
2:05:06my way of getting peace. So, to me that
2:05:09I mean like it was weird that she it
2:05:11wasn't even that weird to me that she
2:05:12left her phone just because I leave my
2:05:15phone, but it was weird to me that she
2:05:16left her purse. But knowing the fact
2:05:18that that girl was like always on her
2:05:20phone then yeah I guess it is kind of
2:05:23odd.
2:05:23>> Like she lived on her phone I think
2:05:25pretty much is my understanding of her
2:05:27and a phone. So
2:05:30>> I don't know if you knew that.
2:05:31>> I did
2:05:32>> until prior to the media stuff or just
2:05:34from Chris?
2:05:35>> I did.
2:05:36>> So did that So did that strike you as
2:05:38odd? But you were thinking maybe she
2:05:40just left.
2:05:40>> I just thought she needed to like get
2:05:42away from the situation. I mean, that
2:05:44didn't seem that awkward to me that a
2:05:46couple that is going through a
2:05:48separation would be like
2:05:51we're were
2:05:54I need to leave. I just need some space.
2:05:56Like it didn't even like process. I was
2:05:58like, okay, like give her some space,
2:06:00you know? And um on that note too, um
2:06:03when he was in we're going to jump back
2:06:05for just a sec. Had a thought. So, when
2:06:07I he was coming back from North
2:06:09Carolina, that was when he officially
2:06:11told me, "We're going to get a divorce.
2:06:12We're going to put the house up for
2:06:13sale." Like, he told me they were
2:06:15separating and they were like going to
2:06:17put the house up for sale, but they
2:06:18hadn't done it yet. And then when he got
2:06:20back from North Carolina, that was when
2:06:21he was like it was like a sealed deal.
2:06:23>> Okay.
2:06:24>> Um, and the reason that is of
2:06:25significance is because at some point
2:06:27over the weekend, I don't remember when,
2:06:29he told me that they were putting the
2:06:31house up. I I don't know if it was they
2:06:32were putting it up on Monday, like the
2:06:34day they went missing, or if it was that
2:06:38they were calling the realtor to verify
2:06:40some stuff so they could put it up that
2:06:41week. Like I don't I don't quite
2:06:43remember. I just remember like the house
2:06:45which was supposed to be like on the
2:06:46market like that week.
2:06:49>> Did he name her real ever?
2:06:50>> Yeah, he did. And I don't remember her
2:06:52name. It was a female.
2:06:53>> Okay.
2:06:53>> And I don't remember her name like at
2:06:55all. I was trying to think of that for
2:06:56you guys not too long ago.
2:06:57>> The company you got the company name?
2:06:59>> No, he never gave me that. He like gave
2:07:01me her name and he it was the same name
2:07:02twice. He gave it to me once when he was
2:07:03in North Carolina and then once the
2:07:06other time cuz I remember asking I was
2:07:07like who's that? Cuz he was like he's
2:07:09like I'm going to have to have her call
2:07:12so and so today and make sure
2:07:13everything's still good to go. I was
2:07:14like who's that? He's like the realer.
2:07:16So oh
2:07:18not today but like
2:07:19>> whatever comes to your mind just
2:07:21>> yeah I doubt it. That was such a I will
2:07:23try. I don't know who it was. It's fine.
2:07:26It's not that critical. um that person
2:07:28may come forward to us anyways um
2:07:31perhaps. So, don't worry about it. Let's
2:07:34go back to the phone calls on Monday
2:07:36afternoon.
2:07:37>> Yeah. So, um so he's like texting me a
2:07:41lot of this information and I'm starting
2:07:43to kind of freak out and it's not like
2:07:44I'm freaked out like, oh, she got
2:07:47murdered. I mean, that is not what I
2:07:49thought. It's like okay, like the way I
2:07:51looked at this, like apparently his wife
2:07:54had been gone since midday. Well, is
2:07:56when she got like reported missing. I
2:07:59didn't know that. Like he's the way I
2:08:01looked at this. It was I got home from
2:08:03work just now. I mean, he didn't say
2:08:05that, but I interpreted I just got home
2:08:07from work
2:08:10and my family is not here. So, when
2:08:15we're texting for like a few hours, like
2:08:17the cop thing was kind of weird, but
2:08:19he's like, "Nikki insisted they call the
2:08:20cops." Nikki insisted they call the
2:08:22cops. And I'm like, "Okay." you know,
2:08:25and I'm just trying to figure out like
2:08:26what role does this woman play in this
2:08:28situation? Like is she
2:08:30>> did you know who she was?
2:08:31>> No, I don't know any of his people. Um
2:08:34like this has been pretty like tight
2:08:36wrap for a while, which is probably a
2:08:38really good thing. Um but
2:08:41anyways, um I didn't know like who she
2:08:45was and so um like I started asking him.
2:08:49I was like, "Well, where do you think
2:08:50your wife is at?" And he's like he's
2:08:52like I think she'll be back tonight.
2:08:54Like I think she's like out with
2:08:56somebody.
2:08:57And he was telling me that they had had
2:08:59a disagreement. So I was like well I
2:09:02remember telling him I was like
2:09:06you
2:09:08should make sure that
2:09:12you have a Oh. Um wait a minute. No no
2:09:15no. So all that happened and then it
2:09:19starts getting kind of laid out and
2:09:23I remember we talked for text for a
2:09:26while and part of this conversation and
2:09:27then it moved to the phone. Um I
2:09:31remember telling him cuz he was like I
2:09:32think she'll just be back tomorrow. I
2:09:34think she's just going to be gone for
2:09:36the night like with a friend, you know.
2:09:37And
2:09:38>> did he name the friend?
2:09:39>> No, he didn't. And like I well and cuz I
2:09:43I don't think he made it sound like he
2:09:45didn't know like what friend's house she
2:09:47would be at. And I remember talking to
2:09:49him and I was like, "Well, maybe it's
2:09:51that Nikki girl." And he's like, "Well,
2:09:53Nikki called the cops, so why would she
2:09:55be at Nikki's house?" I'm like, "I don't
2:09:56know." Kind of throws her off the trail
2:09:58of where she's at, you know? And it's
2:09:59like, it sounds kind of weird, but it's
2:10:01like I he really made this sound like
2:10:03this woman was just like upset, left the
2:10:06house, and that was probably what he
2:10:08thought happened to her. And so I I
2:10:11didn't really put too much like
2:10:12>> Did he tell you the kids were missing as
2:10:14well with her?
2:10:15>> Yes, I knew. I mean, which made sense to
2:10:17me because I was like, well, if you were
2:10:18at work all day, I mean, he didn't tell
2:10:19me he got home early. He didn't say that
2:10:21to me. So, I mean, it made sense like if
2:10:24she's going to leave,
2:10:27they should probably go with her. Um,
2:10:30and and so I don't know. I wish I feel
2:10:33like I wish I should have like processed
2:10:35all of this earlier, but I just don't
2:10:37feel like when one of my friends is
2:10:39gone, I'm like, "Oh my god, they got
2:10:41murdered. We should address this." Like
2:10:43I haven't heard from them.
2:10:44>> It's not a typical thought when somebody
2:10:46just checks out for a day.
2:10:48>> No. So, it got late at night and like I
2:10:50remember telling him I was like he's
2:10:52like, "I think she'll be back tomorrow."
2:10:54And he was going to go into work and I
2:10:55told him not to. I was like, "You need
2:10:57to stay home and you need to help the
2:10:58cops." I'm like, "And you need to wait
2:11:01for her to come back." And he's like
2:11:03telling me like, "Well, what if like she
2:11:05comes back and she sees my truck?" And I
2:11:07was like, "You know what I would do?" I
2:11:08was like, "I would ask one of your good
2:11:09friends who's off of work tomorrow to
2:11:11come over this house and hang out with
2:11:13you while you're here." I was like, "And
2:11:14go park your truck down the street." I
2:11:16was like, "So, she's upset at you and
2:11:18she wants to come back." I was like,
2:11:20"But she doesn't want to be here. If
2:11:21you're here, maybe." I was like, "If she
2:11:23comes back, I was like, "And she doesn't
2:11:26see your truck. Maybe she'd be more
2:11:27willing to come in the house." I'm like,
2:11:29you know, I'm like, but don't be alone
2:11:31with her. I was like, because if she's
2:11:32upset enough to leave, I was like, you
2:11:35don't know what kind of confrontation
2:11:37you're going to have when you get back
2:11:38in the house. And I was like, so that's
2:11:39why you should have a friend there so
2:11:41that you're not alone with her. And I
2:11:42was like, and for some reason you are
2:11:44alone with her, I told him. I was like,
2:11:46I really thought she just left. I did. I
2:11:48was like, get your phone, put it on
2:11:51video, and put it in your pocket. And I
2:11:53was like, and just zip it up. And he's
2:11:55like, why? And I told him, I was like,
2:11:56cuz you can voice record. I was like,
2:11:57"So, if she comes home," I was like,
2:11:59"And you two
2:12:01are still like, you know, if there's
2:12:03some choice words being said because you
2:12:05guys obviously
2:12:07got into like something this, you know,
2:12:10early."
2:12:10>> Did he ever articulate what their
2:12:12argument was about?
2:12:13>> And I will get there, but you know, I
2:12:15told him like
2:12:17just be prepared, you know, cuz at this
2:12:19point, like it wasn't like I was like
2:12:20trying to make her to be a bad person.
2:12:24It was just like I didn't know what was
2:12:25going on. and I assumed that she had
2:12:27left. So I was like, well, when you get
2:12:29back, because I knew that they were
2:12:30going through a divorce, it was like
2:12:32just cover your bases, you know, try not
2:12:34to be alone and if you are, just record
2:12:36what you guys are talking about so like
2:12:38at the end of the day, like nothing bad
2:12:40happens to you, you know, and like
2:12:43that was kind of how I processed that
2:12:45whole situation. And so, um, he was
2:12:49like, "All right." And then uh
2:12:54she didn't come home that night. That
2:12:56was Monday night, right? Yes.
2:12:59>> Monday.
2:12:59>> Monday night. Yes. Um and he told me um
2:13:04what he this is what he told me they
2:13:06talked about. And I realized that this
2:13:07is like total [ __ ] And I think he's
2:13:09telling you guys a different story. And
2:13:10I think the reason that he's telling me
2:13:12what he's telling I think the story he's
2:13:14telling you is probably slightly more
2:13:15accurate than the one he told me on this
2:13:17case. And the reason is because I think
2:13:19he was trying to save his ass with the
2:13:21fact
2:13:23that she's pregnant. So he told me um
2:13:27that they
2:13:30that she had
2:13:33asked him to wake her up before he left
2:13:38for work on Monday morning. And so I
2:13:42don't know if she did that on a text or
2:13:44how it was supposedly communicated. Um,
2:13:49but he said that he went to get her up,
2:13:52which I also found weird because like
2:13:54she's still sleeping when he leaves
2:13:55because she gets up with the kids and
2:13:57they get up shortly after that, but like
2:13:59it's just him in the mornings, you know?
2:14:01And so she he supposedly he said that
2:14:04she woke up and those two kind of just
2:14:08like got in a disagreement and I don't
2:14:10know what all was said, but he was like
2:14:12she was being pretty mean. And then he
2:14:14said, "Uh, she told me that she's
2:14:18pregnant and she told me that the kid is
2:14:22not mine." That is what he told me.
2:14:25>> So she's pregnant, the kid's not mine.
2:14:28>> Like he's playing He didn't know she was
2:14:30pregnant
2:14:31>> until that morning.
2:14:32>> Yep.
2:14:32>> And that it's not she had an affair with
2:14:35somebody else.
2:14:36>> Yes. And this is before I knew she was
2:14:3815 weeks pregnant. like all the stuff on
2:14:40Monday that I read if from my
2:14:42recollection
2:14:44cuz I didn't find out she was pregnant
2:14:45till Tuesday. So anything that got
2:14:47posted on Monday did not emphasize the
2:14:50fact that she like had a baby on board.
2:14:52Um so then um
2:14:55>> let me ask you something. You said that
2:14:56he usually gets up in the morning and
2:14:58just it's him and she gets up and takes
2:15:00care of the kids. Is that the routine
2:15:02that you know for them? Um, or do you
2:15:04know him to get up and like prepare
2:15:07meals prior to him leaving the home?
2:15:09>> Well, he gets up and he like goes to the
2:15:11gym and he I mean works out in his
2:15:13basement and like makes breakfast and I
2:15:15don't know.
2:15:15>> Does he make breakfast for himself or
2:15:17does he make breakfast for his children?
2:15:19>> I don't know. I think I don't know.
2:15:21They're still sleeping at that point.
2:15:22Like all I know is he at one point in
2:15:24some time in this whole thing he told me
2:15:27that they usually get up at like 6:30
2:15:29and she gets she gets them ready and
2:15:30takes them to school and like does all
2:15:32the morning stuff with them. as far as I
2:15:33know. And then in the afternoons when he
2:15:35gets home from work, he kind of does
2:15:36more of the afternoon stuff.
2:15:38>> Okay.
2:15:38>> So, it's kind of like a tag team
2:15:39operation that they have going on. But I
2:15:41think she does more in the AM and he
2:15:42does more in the PM
2:15:43>> is kind of how I process that. But I
2:15:45don't know.
2:15:46>> Okay. So, she's mean to him and then
2:15:48throws this out.
2:15:50>> Yes.
2:15:50>> That she's pregnant from another.
2:15:51>> And I said, "Do you believe her?" And he
2:15:54was just like he said something about
2:15:57like, "Oh, yeah. like she's she kind of
2:16:00looked like she was showing when we were
2:16:01in North Carolina, but I wasn't sure.
2:16:04And I'm like, "So, you think she's
2:16:05pregnant?" And he's like, "Yeah." And I
2:16:07was like, "Do you think she's like
2:16:08having an affair?" And he's like, "I
2:16:10think she said that out of spite." And
2:16:12he's like, and I was like, "Okay."
2:16:15And then, and again, like I think he's
2:16:17just saying all this to me to try to
2:16:19cover his tracks with me. Like, I think
2:16:21I don't know what he told you guys, but
2:16:23I bet it's probably very different. And
2:16:25I think that what he said to me, it it
2:16:27was like directed towards me. Like this
2:16:29whole [ __ ] little box lie that he
2:16:31had right there was like a lie direct.
2:16:33>> Did he say when the argument started?
2:16:36>> Nope.
2:16:37>> Um
2:16:38>> he just said it was in the morning. He
2:16:39said he woke her up in the morning.
2:16:41>> Okay. Did he say when she came home? Did
2:16:43he ever let you know that?
2:16:45>> Uh I think he I want to say he said
2:16:47around like two, but I don't know.
2:16:48>> Okay. And then he woke her. For what
2:16:51purpose? cuz she asked him to.
2:16:54>> Okay.
2:16:55>> So, I was under the impression that he
2:16:57was asleep. I'm assuming this is how it
2:16:59like went and what he was trying to tell
2:17:01me is that he was asleep by the time she
2:17:03got home and she sent him a text and
2:17:05said, "Wake me up before you leave." And
2:17:07then he woke her up and they got an
2:17:09argument and then he went to work.
2:17:11>> Okay.
2:17:12>> That's how I process.
2:17:12>> And the context of that argument again
2:17:14was just the she's pregnant and is there
2:17:17anything else that he shared with you?
2:17:18>> He did not elaborate on it and I didn't
2:17:20ask. I didn't ask.
2:17:23>> What were you thinking at that time?
2:17:26>> Uh, this was like on Monday. I don't I
2:17:30mean, again, at that point, I was like,
2:17:32I still thought she left. I mean, this
2:17:34was all on Monday. Like, I legitimately
2:17:36thought this woman left the premises
2:17:38with her kids and just wanted nothing to
2:17:39do with him for like 24 hours. So his
2:17:41story was believable that she was
2:17:44pregnant from another man and maybe she
2:17:45took off for that guy or
2:17:48>> he I mean he said several times like I
2:17:50think she just said that out of spite.
2:17:52>> Okay.
2:17:52>> Like he thought she was with one of her
2:17:54friends.
2:17:55>> So he sto held true to that story. She's
2:17:58she's just leaving and she's with a
2:17:59friend.
2:18:00>> That was kind of what he thought and
2:18:01that's kind of what he had me believing.
2:18:03And at the time I wasn't really alarmed
2:18:05because it had been like a half a day.
2:18:07>> Sure. Um, and so then Tuesday rolled
2:18:12around
2:18:13and
2:18:14>> Did you see him at all on Monday? You
2:18:16said you didn't. Right. Or
2:18:18>> I did not see him and I went to work
2:18:20Monday.
2:18:20>> Did he ever try to convince you to come
2:18:21see him or say he wanted to come to your
2:18:24house?
2:18:24>> No, not at all. We were supposed to go
2:18:26look pick out apartments to go look at
2:18:28on Wednesday, so yesterday. Um,
2:18:32but uh that obviously
2:18:34>> Right. So on Monday, you never he never
2:18:37tried to be convincing to get you to
2:18:38come up to see him?
2:18:40>> No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not Not
2:18:42that I'm aware of. I don't think so
2:18:43because I had my buddy Jim was over
2:18:45Monday and Tuesday and he knew Jim was
2:18:47over Monday and Tuesday and that's why
2:18:49we were going to hang out on Wednesday.
2:18:50>> Okay.
2:18:51>> Um so no, he didn't ask me. Um so
2:18:56Tuesday rolled around
2:18:58and she still wasn't around. And this is
2:19:00when I started getting kind of sick.
2:19:01like my friend Jim was sick on Monday
2:19:03when he came up and I don't know I just
2:19:06started feeling like crap as it was and
2:19:09then um I was just kind of having a hard
2:19:12time focusing and like thinking about
2:19:13what was going on cuz and I'd asked him
2:19:15a few times I'm like where's your family
2:19:17Chris like where's your family you know
2:19:20and he would tell me like I don't know
2:19:21or I want them home like it I asked like
2:19:24several times so I think I got different
2:19:26responses but each time like he didn't
2:19:28know where they were you know and I'm
2:19:29like she's still not home and he's like
2:19:31Oh, and oh, and I had also asked him to
2:19:34like um he said he had a friend Dave
2:19:37named that was a cop, which I also find
2:19:39convenient that there's another Dave or
2:19:41in this case there's a cop. Um but he
2:19:44was I was like, "Well, Dave's off. Why
2:19:46don't you just have him like post up
2:19:48outside your house, too, and see if she
2:19:50shows up,
2:19:51you know?" And he told me on Tuesday
2:19:53morning, he was like, "I called Dave and
2:19:55asked him to sit outside my house and
2:19:57he's going to do it." and he's like,
2:19:58"And then my friend Nick is coming over
2:20:00later on this afternoon." And I was
2:20:02like, "Okay."
2:20:02>> Did you ever hear Nick's name before?
2:20:04>> I've actually heard that name a few
2:20:06times like around him. Like there's
2:20:07certain I never heard Dave before. Dave
2:20:09was new, but I've heard the name Nick a
2:20:11lot. So I don't know if that's like real
2:20:13or what, but if I was to guess like
2:20:16friends that he like legitimately has, I
2:20:18would assume that he was one of them.
2:20:21Um, but yeah, because I know he's told
2:20:24me before like when we first started
2:20:26hanging out that Nick lived kind of in
2:20:28the area and he's like um he's like he
2:20:30actually goes he's a trail runner and
2:20:33he's like he runs at East Lake number
2:20:35three.
2:20:36>> So he lives in your area
2:20:37>> kind of and I remember him saying that
2:20:39to me once. He's like, "You know that
2:20:41park that we like hung out at?" I was
2:20:42like, "Yeah." He's like, "My buddy runs
2:20:44over there. We should not go to that
2:20:45park anymore." And I was like, "Okay."
2:20:47Um, that's cool. And uh
2:20:53anyways,
2:20:56>> Tuesday morning.
2:20:57>> Tuesday morning.
2:20:58>> We're almost done.
2:21:00>> I know. I was I was I'm I'm trying to
2:21:02just keep it all together here for you
2:21:03guys. Um Tuesday morning.
2:21:06Oh. So he said Dave was going to stay
2:21:07outside of his house and Nick was going
2:21:09to come over that afternoon. I was like,
2:21:11"All right." And then um I don't I think
2:21:16most of the texting throughout that day
2:21:18was kind of like, "Have you heard
2:21:19anything? Like what's going on?" It was
2:21:21kind of like me checking up on him. Um
2:21:24and I don't remember everything, but it
2:21:25wasn't I didn't even make it through the
2:21:27entire workday. Like I was feeling
2:21:29really really sick um like in general.
2:21:32And then I
2:21:35I decided on my lunch break to get on
2:21:38the internet and look at what was going
2:21:40on with all the reports. And I saw a
2:21:44report that was like this woman who's 15
2:21:47weeks pregnant and her two daughters are
2:21:50missing. And I was like,
2:21:53whoa,
2:21:55what? And I was just like so floored.
2:21:58And I read a couple other articles just
2:22:00to make sure that you know all the
2:22:02newspapers are. I'm like just double
2:22:04check like am I really reading this
2:22:05right? And I'm like okay. And he had
2:22:08told me previously like she said she's
2:22:11pregnant with another man's kid but he'd
2:22:13said like he could kind of tell in in
2:22:17North Carolina, but that girl is like
2:22:20obviously pregnant. I mean in her
2:22:22photos. I mean 15 weeks that's like 4
2:22:25months. That's pretty far along. And so
2:22:28it's it's like how would you not know if
2:22:29she's showing? Like you totally know
2:22:31she's showing. And so,
2:22:34oh my god, I got so sick. I was just
2:22:36like, I need to go. I just like packed
2:22:38my stuff and I left work and I went home
2:22:43and uh I remember I told Jim that I was
2:22:46going to get home early and he wanted to
2:22:48come over right away and I was just like
2:22:50I just needed some time to like process
2:22:52what was going on. But I did tell him I
2:22:54was like you can come over earlier than
2:22:55you did yesterday. cuz he didn't want to
2:22:57wait in traffic. That was the thing.
2:22:58He's like, "Save me some time." So, I
2:23:00don't remember what time he got there.
2:23:02Um, I probably still have that text cuz
2:23:05I don't have any reason to delete those.
2:23:08Um, but so he came over a little early,
2:23:10but I did have like a gap of time in
2:23:12there. I don't know how long it was. I
2:23:14bet it was like after I got from the
2:23:16time I got home to the time Jim got
2:23:17there, but it was probably like I don't
2:23:18know, hour and a half, maybe somewhere
2:23:20around there. Um,
2:23:24and uh,
2:23:26I remember talking to Chris during this
2:23:29time and it was like all text. I did not
2:23:32talk to him on the phone at all on
2:23:33Tuesday and I was pretty upset where I
2:23:37was just like, you know, I was going
2:23:39back and forth like, "Where's your
2:23:40family?" This and this and this, but I'm
2:23:42like, "She's pregnant, you know, and
2:23:45this and this and he's like, "The baby's
2:23:47not mine. The baby's not mine." And I'm
2:23:50just like, "You told me yesterday that
2:23:53you think that when she said that she
2:23:56cheated on you, she did it out of
2:23:58spite." And he was like, "Yeah." And I'm
2:24:00like, "So then it's your kid?" And he
2:24:03kept denying it. And then like he
2:24:07started like kind of worried about us.
2:24:08He'd just be like, "Well,
2:24:11does this ruin everything with us? This
2:24:12and this and this." And I'm like, "No."
2:24:14Oh, I'm like and I'm like just trying to
2:24:16like his situation is so much more
2:24:18important right now than like our
2:24:19situation,
2:24:20>> but his main concern is you and him
2:24:22>> kind of sort of. I mean, and I keep like
2:24:24asking him like I'm like and I told him
2:24:27numerous times which is also in the text
2:24:29that you guys will pull where I'm just
2:24:30like you need to focus on finding your
2:24:33kids and your wife right now. And I was
2:24:36like and you need to focus on finding
2:24:37all three of your kids. And I like kept
2:24:39like emphasizing to him like he had
2:24:42three kids, you know, and like I wasn't
2:24:44even like mad about it. I was just like,
2:24:46"You need to find your family. You need
2:24:47>> Did he ever go look for them that you
2:24:49know of?"
2:24:50>> Uh I don't know. I don't think so. That
2:24:52like doesn't even like ring a bell to
2:24:54me. So I don't think so.
2:24:55>> Okay.
2:24:56>> Um
2:24:59but uh Oh, and I forgot something else
2:25:01that's really important. I'll add it in
2:25:03there, too. But let me just finish this
2:25:04thought. So then um Tuesday, what are we
2:25:07talking about? Oh yeah. So I kept
2:25:10telling him I was like Chris I know it's
2:25:11yours. It's okay. I was like go find
2:25:14your family. You know and it's like was
2:25:16I was I hurt? Yes. But at the time I
2:25:18realized like his situation with what he
2:25:21had going on was like way more important
2:25:23than like our situation. And so that's
2:25:26why I was just like like I I confronted
2:25:29about it and then I was like you need to
2:25:31go find them. And like we talked about
2:25:33it for a little while and then I was
2:25:35just like
2:25:37I don't remember exactly how it went but
2:25:39something along the lines where I was
2:25:40like why can't you just be honest with
2:25:41me? I was like stop lying to me like
2:25:45>> did you have an inclination you've
2:25:47talked to this man a lot and during this
2:25:51Tuesday Wednesday conversation did you
2:25:53feel like he was bullshitting you
2:25:56>> a little bit? Kind of. Yeah. I mean,
2:25:58because he was like,
2:26:02"Not Monday. Monday did not, but
2:26:05Tuesday, yeah, that's when it all
2:26:07started to click." I was like, "Oh my
2:26:09goodness." Because he was like, "Well,
2:26:14like he just didn't seem as like
2:26:17concerned as he should be." And he was
2:26:19like super worried about [ __ ] with us.
2:26:21And I'm just like
2:26:22>> So concerned about his family and overly
2:26:24concerned about your relationship.
2:26:26>> Yes.
2:26:26>> Okay. And I kept like trying to put it
2:26:28on the back burner. And shame on me for
2:26:30bringing it up in the first place. I was
2:26:31just really taken back like wait a
2:26:33minute, she's 15 weeks. Like how would
2:26:35you not notice that? Like I was just
2:26:36like I was confused and I was also like
2:26:39is he lying to me? And I kind of wanted
2:26:40to know because I realized that like
2:26:42there's a situation at hand here and I'm
2:26:44just like what is going on, you know?
2:26:46And for part of it, it wasn't even like
2:26:48me trying to find out cuz I'm upset. It
2:26:50was almost like me trying to find out
2:26:51cuz I'm like is there something else I'm
2:26:54missing here? like I felt like there was
2:26:56like pieces to this puzzle that I didn't
2:26:58know existed that were like not in place
2:27:00and it was strange. And so um
2:27:04anyways I told him I was like be honest
2:27:06with me. I was like don't lie. And I
2:27:08don't remember exactly how it went but I
2:27:09was like trying to emphasize like stop
2:27:11bullshitting me. So he told me the truth
2:27:13and he told me it was his and then he
2:27:15knew about it.
2:27:16>> Okay.
2:27:17>> I was like okay. And then he asked me
2:27:19again like did that ruin everything? And
2:27:21I was like no it didn't. And in the back
2:27:24of my head, it's like, "Yeah, I'm done.
2:27:26I'm not dealing with that. Don't lie to
2:27:28me." But his situation is so critical
2:27:30right now that's like I'm not going to
2:27:31like ruffle his mental feathers because
2:27:34they're already like really ruffled
2:27:36because of the situation. So like out of
2:27:38respect for his mental health, I just
2:27:40like dropped it and I just kept telling
2:27:43him like, "We're okay. We're okay. We're
2:27:45okay." But
2:27:46>> how many times do you think he asked you
2:27:48during these phone calls?
2:27:50>> Oh, it wasn't phone call. This was text.
2:27:51>> Pardon me. text. Text
2:27:53>> text Tuesday. How many times do you
2:27:56think he brought up your relationship
2:27:59and if you guys were okay?
2:28:00>> Probably like two or three times.
2:28:02>> And how many times did he bring up
2:28:06concern for his children or his wife?
2:28:08>> I think he brought it up a lot, too. I
2:28:10mean, he kept telling me that he was
2:28:11like worried about them. I mean, it
2:28:13happened. It wasn't like he was just
2:28:15like spaced out. I mean, he was
2:28:17definitely
2:28:19>> showing that, too. I was just surprised
2:28:21that he was like also showing it for me
2:28:23cuz at that moment if I had some crazy
2:28:25stuff going on with somebody in my
2:28:27family I would be putting all my
2:28:28relationship stuff on hold like look
2:28:30like baby I got to deal with this.
2:28:31Someone in my family is missing. When I
2:28:33find them we will talk and that would
2:28:34just be it. But that's just me. I mean
2:28:36that's how I would address the
2:28:37situation. And that's kind of how I've
2:28:39been like gauging how I handled
2:28:42>> Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday is like
2:28:43what would I have done?
2:28:44>> Sure. you know, and and kind of like
2:28:46that's why like I didn't contact you
2:28:48guys on Monday because I probably
2:28:50wouldn't have done that for one of my
2:28:51friends. And not that I'm cold-hearted,
2:28:53it's just like it just
2:28:57that's just not how me and my friends
2:28:59work. So, it didn't, you know,
2:29:01>> there's there's extenduating
2:29:02circumstances that you wouldn't have
2:29:04known that caused her friends to be
2:29:06concerned. Just so you know,
2:29:08>> there's nothing wrong with you for not
2:29:10going, "Oh, something's wrong and
2:29:11calling the police." the people that
2:29:13provided the information to the police
2:29:15initially had way more information about
2:29:17her than you do. So that's why they came
2:29:19forward. So I can see I can feel a
2:29:22little reservation that you're like,
2:29:23"Why didn't I do something? Why didn't
2:29:25you didn't know enough?" I think a
2:29:27normal person on Monday, a reasonable
2:29:29person is just going, "Shit, this
2:29:31woman's, you know, whacked out
2:29:33relationship with her husband. She's got
2:29:35two kids now. She's pregnant. She just
2:29:37takes off." So, don't blame yourself for
2:29:39not making a phone call to the law
2:29:41enforcement or going to the police. You
2:29:43didn't know anything. So, I'm just
2:29:45trying to help you get past that. Don't
2:29:46worry about it. It's it's not the the
2:29:49people that came to us had way more info
2:29:52than you did regarding what was
2:29:53happening with her life.
2:29:55>> Okay.
2:29:55>> Okay. So, don't get don't don't blame
2:29:58your beat yourself up over that. Please
2:30:00don't. Okay.
2:30:03And then uh so Tuesday
2:30:07after that conversation, I told him I
2:30:12was like
2:30:13I told him to delete his text cuz I knew
2:30:16he was like going crazy texting me and I
2:30:18didn't want any of his friends to see
2:30:20him texting me because they didn't I
2:30:22don't think they knew about me and
2:30:24nothing to do with you guys. It was just
2:30:26like I mean and you'll see him, you
2:30:27know,
2:30:28>> the secrecy of your relationship
2:30:30>> pretty much and I just like feel like he
2:30:32was like texting me so much openly and
2:30:34he had friends there that I was like I
2:30:37didn't want them to see that and so I
2:30:39was like trying to get him to slow down
2:30:40and then I told him too like um
2:30:45after he lied to me I was just kind of
2:30:47like I was done and I was trying to find
2:30:48a way to like get away from the
2:30:51situation
2:30:53without alarming him or panicking ing
2:30:55him. So, I told him like, "Everything is
2:30:58all good. I'm still here for you." And I
2:31:01feel bad cuz like I lied to him, but I
2:31:03mean I like just try to keep him calm
2:31:05and then I told him like, "Contact me
2:31:09once they find your family
2:31:13and then we'll talk."
2:31:14>> That was Tuesday.
2:31:15>> That was Tuesday.
2:31:16>> Okay.
2:31:17>> And he sent me a text back saying
2:31:19something along the lines of like,
2:31:23what did he say? something like, "Please
2:31:25just think of of Oh, and like I kept
2:31:28telling him I was scared. I was really
2:31:30freaking scared." In fact, that's
2:31:32another thing I'm missing. I'm so tired.
2:31:34Monday night, like I called him back in
2:31:37the middle of the night cuz I could not
2:31:39sleep. I could not sleep at all. And I
2:31:42remember when I called him, he sounded
2:31:44like he was sleeping and I was like,
2:31:45"How the hell can you sleep right now?"
2:31:47I'm think that's exactly what I said to
2:31:49him. and he was just like, I'm just kind
2:31:52of dozing off and on on the couch. And I
2:31:54just remember thinking like, I haven't
2:31:56shut my eyes yet and this is not even my
2:31:59family. And so that happened on Monday
2:32:02night. Um, so then I was going somewhere
2:32:05with that that had to do with Tuesday. I
2:32:07forgot what it was. I'm so sorry.
2:32:09>> Take take a breath and relax. We're
2:32:11almost to Wednesday and then we're out
2:32:13of here.
2:32:13>> Yeah. So then
2:32:16um
2:32:18Yeah. So then once he he lied to me, I
2:32:20just really trying to like push him away
2:32:23and he was like, "Just don't forget like
2:32:25the person that you knew me to be when
2:32:28you were with me or something like
2:32:30that." And like
2:32:32>> was that strange?
2:32:34>> It just kind of sounded almost like a
2:32:35farewell and like I didn't think it was
2:32:38too weird because I was like I think he
2:32:40realizes that I'm really upset that he
2:32:43lied to me and I think he's aware of the
2:32:45fact that I'm probably about to walk
2:32:46away from him. So I think that was like
2:32:48his way of like saying goodbye. So it
2:32:51didn't really seem strange in the
2:32:53context of what was going on between
2:32:56like the him and I part of stuff. And
2:32:59then um and I kept asking him too like
2:33:02what did you do Chris? What did you do?
2:33:04And he was like I didn't do anything.
2:33:06And I'm like where's your family? And
2:33:08like I asked him that. I don't know if I
2:33:10started doing that on Tuesday or if I
2:33:12started doing that on Monday, but I
2:33:14definitely I think it was Tuesday cuz I
2:33:16don't really think I was that alarmed on
2:33:17Monday. And then um
2:33:22uh
2:33:24so that was supposed to be like our
2:33:25final sign off text and then Jim got
2:33:28there at my house and I was hanging out
2:33:30with Jim, but I was still like in my
2:33:32head just kind of like stressed out. And
2:33:34I remember I like walked out of the
2:33:35room, went in my bedroom, and texted
2:33:37Chris one more time. And I told him, I
2:33:38was like, "If you did something bad," I
2:33:42was like, "You're going to ruin your
2:33:43life." And I was like, "And if you did
2:33:45something bad," I was like, "You're
2:33:46going to ruin my life." And I was like,
2:33:48"And I promise you that." And he
2:33:51responded back to me and he's like, "I
2:33:52didn't hurt my family, Nikki." And that
2:33:55was like the last text. That was the
2:33:57last time we ever talked. And I never
2:33:58said another word to him after that.
2:34:00>> That was Tuesday.
2:34:01>> That was Tuesday. And then he left me
2:34:03alone. He gave me the space that I asked
2:34:05him. He respected it. And he didn't like
2:34:08mess with me at all.
2:34:09>> Was that a phone call where you said,
2:34:10>> "No, that's all Tuesday." Text Tuesday.
2:34:13Everything was text. I did not talk to
2:34:15that man on the phone at all that day. I
2:34:16mean, I don't think so. I'm pretty sure
2:34:18it was all text.
2:34:19>> Um, and then uh
2:34:22>> So, at that time in your mind, if you
2:34:25said that, what what are you thinking?
2:34:27What were you thinking that he maybe did
2:34:29something to his family?
2:34:30>> Yeah. I started getting really scared.
2:34:32What what caused that thought?
2:34:34>> The fact that he lied to me.
2:34:35>> Okay.
2:34:36>> And that she still wasn't home and it
2:34:37was day two. Like I figure if you're
2:34:39upset for a day, you leave for a day,
2:34:40but you come back and she wasn't back.
2:34:43And it was like midday.
2:34:45And not only that, but like she doesn't
2:34:48have her phone. She doesn't have her her
2:34:50car. She doesn't have the kids epi pen.
2:34:52She doesn't have any of that. So what
2:34:53I'm thinking in my head is like for a
2:34:55night if you're really upset,
2:34:58somebody comes pick one of your friends
2:34:59picks you up. Like, okay, but I can't
2:35:03explain that for 2 days. Like, that just
2:35:05doesn't like logically process in my
2:35:07mind as something that any woman I know
2:35:08would do. The one night thing, I know
2:35:10women that would do that, but the two
2:35:11night thing, no. And so, I'm like, she's
2:35:14still not back. Annie just lied to me.
2:35:16And
2:35:19it made me like I just started getting
2:35:21scared. And I remember like telling him
2:35:23that throughout the whole day. Like I I
2:35:24don't even know how many times I texted
2:35:25him that. I wouldn't be surprised if
2:35:26it's like 8 10 times where I'm just
2:35:28like, "I'm scared. I'm scared. I'm
2:35:29scared. And one of the last texts that I
2:35:31sent to him too, I told him, I said,
2:35:33"I'm scared because I feel like I don't
2:35:35know who you are anymore."
2:35:37And
2:35:38>> and his response to that,
2:35:40>> I don't even remember to be honest with
2:35:41you. I think that was like in that like
2:35:43sign off text that I sent to him.
2:35:45>> Okay.
2:35:46>> Um,
2:35:48but I mean I was I was like kind of
2:35:50scared. I was what I was really scared
2:35:52for was scared for his family's
2:35:53well-being because it's like I don't
2:35:55know where these people are at this
2:35:56point and it's scary. I mean, it's scary
2:35:59that she's gone, but it's even more
2:36:02scary to me that these little girls are
2:36:03gone. Like, that was the part that
2:36:05really freaked me out. Like, if it was
2:36:07just her, I'd be like, well, maybe she
2:36:08took off with somebody, maybe she
2:36:10didn't. I mean, I don't know because
2:36:11she's a grown woman and she can make
2:36:13those choices.
2:36:14>> Were some of the scared Was there fear
2:36:17in you that people were going to find
2:36:18out about your relationship, too?
2:36:20>> No, I didn't even care about that point.
2:36:22I was just like scared like of the
2:36:24situation. it was like getting escalated
2:36:26and it was freaking me out and he was
2:36:28just like not
2:36:31he was strange. So another thing so that
2:36:34was Tuesday and that was it for Tuesday
2:36:36but I forgot some stuff on Monday that I
2:36:37didn't need to bring up to you guys. So
2:36:38Monday um
2:36:41when we were on the phone at one point
2:36:43he mentioned to me I can't even believe
2:36:46I have to say this.
2:36:48she left her wedding ring here. And I
2:36:50said something along the lines of, "Does
2:36:54that mean you two are done?" And he was
2:36:56like,
2:37:01"Oh my god."
2:37:03He said, "How much do you think it's
2:37:05worth?" And I like remember hearing him
2:37:08say that and being like, "What the
2:37:10fuck?" And I remember thinking to myself
2:37:13like, "I don't even want to respond to
2:37:14this." And so I was like, "I don't know.
2:37:16Pawn it, man." And I was just like I was
2:37:19like I pond jewelry all the time. I was
2:37:20like I pond jewelry a few times. I was
2:37:22like it's not worth [ __ ] though. And I
2:37:23was like so I don't know if you really
2:37:25want to do that. And he's like no no I
2:37:27think I'm going to get it appraised.
2:37:29It's a nice rock. And I was just like
2:37:31okay. And it was like really awkward.
2:37:34>> And that was on Monday.
2:37:36>> That was on Monday night. And that to me
2:37:40was like
2:37:42it was kind of strange. And then the
2:37:44Tuesday lying thing. Like I'm telling
2:37:45you, it started like Monday night him
2:37:48saying that. That was why I couldn't
2:37:49sleep cuz he made the comment about the
2:37:51wedding ring.
2:37:52>> Okay.
2:37:52>> And then Tuesday her still not coming
2:37:55home and then him lying to me and I was
2:37:57just like oh my god. Oh my god. Like
2:38:01what if something happened? And it was
2:38:02like really hard for me.
2:38:03>> When you said what what if something
2:38:05happened? What were you thinking?
2:38:06>> Like what if somebody took her? Like
2:38:09could he possibly hurt her? And that was
2:38:11like the first time that I really I
2:38:13think genuinely considered did this man
2:38:17hurt his wife. And
2:38:20it was like hard for me to grasp. And uh
2:38:24I thought about it a lot and I I waited
2:38:27for the night cuz I wanted to see if she
2:38:30would come home. And it was already
2:38:31pretty late and I accompanied and I was
2:38:33just like, "Let me just see how this
2:38:35plays out."
2:38:37And
2:38:38um
2:38:40my buddy Jim left
2:38:43I don't know probably like 9 or 10
2:38:45probably. It's like the same time he
2:38:46always leaves. And then um
2:38:50I couldn't sleep again. It was really
2:38:52bad. And I woke up in the morning and I
2:38:55saw
2:38:57the interview that he had with the
2:39:00newspapers
2:39:02and he just looked really different to
2:39:04me.
2:39:05>> How so? The light in his eyes is gone.
2:39:08They're like a different color now. It's
2:39:11like he has no soul. I swear to God. I
2:39:14saw it and I was just like, "Look at his
2:39:16eyes." I saw his mug shot. They're not
2:39:19even the same color. Like when you guys
2:39:21retrieve the pictures that are on my
2:39:22phone, look at his eyes then compared to
2:39:25now. Like it's the scariest [ __ ] I think
2:39:27I've ever seen in my life. It freaked me
2:39:29out. I was like, "That's not even the
2:39:30same man that I know." And it was really
2:39:33uncomfortable. Um, but anyways, I saw
2:39:35that report in the morning and I was
2:39:39just to the point where I was just like,
2:39:40"All right, like
2:39:43something happened. This woman is
2:39:44missing." Whether it was him or someone
2:39:46else, I know like a woman went missing
2:39:48not too long ago in Longmont like I
2:39:51think it was like two months ago or
2:39:52something like that. And you guys, not
2:39:54you guys, but somebody up there called
2:39:56off the search on her. I don't think
2:39:57they ever found her. So, I was like, I
2:40:00don't know. Maybe that's connected.
2:40:02Maybe somebody came and got her. Maybe
2:40:04he did something. I don't know. But I
2:40:06knew like it was a problem. And at this
2:40:09point, I was like, I'm in a very messy
2:40:11situation with this man.
2:40:13And I don't know what to do. And so I
2:40:17called my dad cuz he's like the only
2:40:19person that I trust with everything in
2:40:20the whole world. And I was just like, I
2:40:22have a problem. And I told him
2:40:24everything. And then I was like, we just
2:40:28discussed it. And it was like, we need
2:40:29to go to the cops definitely because I
2:40:34figured you guys would find me
2:40:36eventually, but I was like, I feel like
2:40:37they need to speak to me. I feel like
2:40:39I'm a very important person for you guys
2:40:41to communicate with.
2:40:42>> And so, you know, and again, I wish I
2:40:45had done it sooner, but it just like it
2:40:47just kind of took the sequence of events
2:40:50of his lies and all of his [ __ ]
2:40:53falling apart for me to process that I
2:40:55needed to address the situation. And so,
2:40:57you know, and the time and so that to me
2:41:01and another thing he lied to me on, I
2:41:02caught him on Monday night. He was like,
2:41:05oh, it was right after the wedding ring
2:41:07thing. He was talking about
2:41:10it might have been before one of the
2:41:12two, but he was he was like talking
2:41:14about how
2:41:16um
2:41:18he like reflected on North Carolina and
2:41:20he was talking about how he wanted the
2:41:22separation and all this stuff. And I'm
2:41:24like, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
2:41:25Wait a minute. I thought you were the
2:41:28one trying to make peace with her and
2:41:30she's the one who didn't want it." He's
2:41:31like, "No, I wanted it." And I was just
2:41:33like, "Okay." And another thing on
2:41:35Monday night, his breathing was like,
2:41:40it was like his voice would crack
2:41:42sometimes. But I didn't like
2:41:44condemn him for anything like that
2:41:46because I was like, "Well, yeah, he's
2:41:48probably stressed the hell out. His
2:41:49family's gone." You know what I'm
2:41:51saying?
2:41:51>> Sure. So I don't know. So that happened
2:41:55and then um
2:41:57>> he never made any admissions to you
2:41:59about anything that he had done.
2:42:00>> Nope.
2:42:01>> Um he never said anything about doing or
2:42:06at any time not not just in these days
2:42:09but during your relationship. Did he
2:42:10ever say anything about hurting his
2:42:11wife, his children?
2:42:13>> Never. Did and then on these
2:42:15conversations from Monday to Tuesday, um
2:42:18did he ever say that um you know
2:42:20somebody did something to them or did he
2:42:22ever give uh um an excuse to you how
2:42:25this could have happened?
2:42:28>> No, I mean he
2:42:29>> other than they just were going to a
2:42:30friend's house.
2:42:31>> Yeah. Or he was like, "Yeah, I think
2:42:32she's like with one of her friends. She
2:42:34doesn't want to talk to me." kind of
2:42:35thing. But other than that, no. I mean
2:42:37like he told me like, "Yeah, she said
2:42:38she was with another man, but I think it
2:42:40was out of spite." like he never really
2:42:41like held that she was with another
2:42:43dude. Like he never was like, "Yeah,
2:42:46she's with some guy." Like she said it,
2:42:48but I don't think she meant it.
2:42:50>> It's kind of what he was like directing
2:42:52towards me. But no, he
2:42:56>> I think that's why I gave him the
2:42:57benefit of the doubt so long. Like he
2:42:58has always been such a civil, gentle man
2:43:02to me. and he's always been pretty calm
2:43:06and like level-headed when he talks
2:43:08about the like the differences between
2:43:11him and his wife. And I mean that's a
2:43:14sensitive subject and he never ever
2:43:16seemed like he was like aggressive about
2:43:18it. I mean he was always just like chill
2:43:21and he never talked ill of his children.
2:43:24He was always so bubbly about them. Like
2:43:27those were his babies. So when all of
2:43:29this happened, I was just like, "What
2:43:31the fuck?"
2:43:33And
2:43:34>> so that brings me to the question real
2:43:36quick. I mean, you got I don't think
2:43:38anybody over the last six or eight weeks
2:43:39knows this dude better than you. I
2:43:41really don't. You guys probably spent
2:43:43more time together than anybody.
2:43:45>> Um conversation, whatever, relationship.
2:43:48Um what do you think?
2:43:53What's the catalyst for this event? Do
2:43:55you have any have you had and I I know
2:43:57it's a hard question, but I want to get
2:43:59it out now. We're here. If if there's a
2:44:01thought that you have um that might lead
2:44:04us to understand a little bit why he
2:44:07might have done something like this. Um
2:44:10like I said, I don't I met Chris on on
2:44:13Wednesday.
2:44:14Um so I don't know Chris, not like you
2:44:18do.
2:44:20Um, you know, I've thought about this
2:44:22and sometimes I think to myself,
2:44:25if I wasn't in that man's life, would
2:44:28his family still be alive?
2:44:31And I've thought about this a lot, and I
2:44:33think I could give myself different
2:44:35responses, but in all honesty, I think
2:44:38they might be alive,
2:44:41but not permanently. I do not think that
2:44:44this man just snapped. I don't think
2:44:47that he just met some [ __ ] amazing
2:44:49woman and he was just gonna try to
2:44:51[ __ ] murder his family and then think
2:44:52that I was okay with like
2:44:55building a relationship with somebody
2:44:57who did something like that. Like at
2:44:58what [ __ ] point, you know? And not
2:45:00only that, like I
2:45:04always try to say, you know, like when
2:45:07we get to a point where we've been
2:45:08together long enough, I would love to
2:45:11meet your children. Like I never
2:45:12discluded them from anything. I remember
2:45:15coming back from Colorado Springs and I
2:45:17was like, "Oh my god, they got the
2:45:18Cheyenzoo down here. You got to take
2:45:20your kids." And like the you can feed
2:45:22the giraffes and they would love it. And
2:45:24like I always try to like in like show
2:45:28him cool things like, "Hey man, would
2:45:30your kids like this?" Cuz my nephew
2:45:32would like this. Like check this out.
2:45:33You know, like I sent him a screenshot
2:45:34of some rainbow unicorn lucky charms the
2:45:37other day. I was like, "Do your
2:45:38daughters know about these? Cuz I bet
2:45:39these are epic." like little things like
2:45:42that where it's like like genuinely like
2:45:44I care.
2:45:47I do like despite how messy this is and
2:45:49how I'm sure I'm going to be portrayed
2:45:50in the media and everything like I care
2:45:52about
2:45:54like his well-being with his children
2:45:56and all of that. And so for me like when
2:46:00I think of what was he going through his
2:46:02head, I find it really hard to believe
2:46:04that I am the catalyst for all of this.
2:46:09I will be willing to say that I think me
2:46:12being in his life accelerated what was
2:46:14inevitably about to happen. But I don't
2:46:18think people just snap. Love does not
2:46:21murder. Hate and resentment is murder.
2:46:26That's the way I look at that. I do not
2:46:28know what is the truth anymore and
2:46:30what's not. And I don't have all of the
2:46:32details, but this is just my like
2:46:34opinion. But I'm pretty convinced that
2:46:37that woman and him did not get along
2:46:39very well. And the reason they stuck
2:46:41together was, "Hey, we're going to do
2:46:42kids." And I think they also stuck
2:46:44together because they were in a very bad
2:46:45financial bind. And I think that she
2:46:48continuously disregarded it. And I think
2:46:50he messed up because he was too passive
2:46:53to say anything to her about it and
2:46:55really address it. And it just got to
2:46:56the point where it's just like you file
2:46:58bankruptcy and then what do you do? Just
2:46:59wait till you file the next one. I don't
2:47:01know. I don't know what their finances
2:47:03look like now, but from the way it made
2:47:04it sound, it's probably a pretty stark
2:47:06situation. And I
2:47:10don't know if hundreds of thousands of
2:47:12dollars in debt over and over and over
2:47:14again are enough to lead a man to like
2:47:17want to take somebody out, but I don't
2:47:19know. I've heard of people committing
2:47:20suicide over that [ __ ] before, and I
2:47:23would never justify what he did. I think
2:47:24it's [ __ ] disgusting. It's so like
2:47:27he's such a [ __ ] pig. But I just I
2:47:30try to like be like why. I try to come
2:47:32up with a why. And I really think that
2:47:35he was struggling with her really bad.
2:47:37And not only that, he's got a third
2:47:38child on the way. And I know he was
2:47:40probably just like, I can't [ __ ]
2:47:41afford a third kid. Wants it but can't
2:47:44afford it, you know? And he always told
2:47:45me he like wanted a little boy, you
2:47:48know? He wanted a third child.
2:47:49>> Mhm. And so I think that
2:47:53it was just something like I think they
2:47:54were in a financial situation and I
2:47:56think she was very non-responsive to him
2:47:59trying to
2:48:01to like solve problems and like get out
2:48:04of the situations that they were in. And
2:48:06I think people just get complacent is
2:48:07what it is. And then you know I think uh
2:48:11he met me and I think I was like a
2:48:13breath of fresh air for him where it was
2:48:15like he could get away and just be like
2:48:17you know what I can be myself. I don't
2:48:19have to worry about money right now.
2:48:20Like,
2:48:22you know, and this girl, like, I have my
2:48:24[ __ ] together. Like, my life is so like
2:48:26very in.
2:48:26>> You seem very uh organized and
2:48:29independent and
2:48:30>> dialed up. I do good. I do really good
2:48:33at work. I have like almost a perfect
2:48:34credit score. I've save money for a
2:48:36house. Like, I don't mess around. I
2:48:38mean, I did I screwed up. This is like
2:48:39my one screw up ever and it's about to
2:48:41be on like national news. but um just
2:48:45very dialed in and I think it was like a
2:48:47breath of fresh air for him to like be
2:48:50around something like that because I
2:48:51don't think that he knew that that was
2:48:53like a real thing and he had told me
2:48:54that like numerous times like I didn't
2:48:56know like women like you like existed.
2:49:00It's just like all right, like I don't
2:49:01and I when he meant it, it was just like
2:49:04like just like the way you run your
2:49:05life. And so because they were married
2:49:07really young, you know, and so to answer
2:49:10your question, I think inevitably it was
2:49:13going to happen. I think it just got
2:49:15propelled faster. I mean, I don't think
2:49:18I don't understand what he would have
2:49:20achieved
2:49:23with if he wanted to be with me that
2:49:24bad, what he would have achieved with me
2:49:26by doing what he did. I think his
2:49:28situation at home
2:49:30was way, way deeper than anything him
2:49:34and I ever had and it led to that. And I
2:49:36don't know what happened in that
2:49:38conversation that they had, but I kind
2:49:40of have a feeling that it wasn't even
2:49:42about her pregnancy or another man or
2:49:44me. I have a feeling it was about money.
2:49:49>> So drilling down, you think money
2:49:52>> for him is the the biggest downfall?
2:49:55you guys I mean beyond their relation
2:49:58really I don't know that you know too
2:50:00much about the relationship or the
2:50:01particular issues other than monetary
2:50:03issues financial issues that sounds like
2:50:06what you guys talked about when you
2:50:07talked about their relationship
2:50:09>> I mean like he told me other things like
2:50:11they really didn't like sleep together
2:50:12too much stuff like that but I feel like
2:50:13a lot of husbands and wives don't do
2:50:14that but it was like oh of course you
2:50:16don't that's why you're coming to me you
2:50:18know um but
2:50:22um no I think I think I just like me
2:50:26being in his life just pushed that
2:50:27forward. I honestly think that there's
2:50:29probably a good possibility that this
2:50:31would have just happened like further
2:50:33down the road where
2:50:34>> So, did you see that in before
2:50:37yesterday or Tuesday or was that just
2:50:40kind of something that you have
2:50:42reflected on and you've thought about
2:50:44this now going, man, now that I see that
2:50:46in this guy or just because of the
2:50:48lifestyle he was living and if he didn't
2:50:50get removed from it, this was going to
2:50:53happen sooner rather than later like you
2:50:55said. Um, you know, if I was to reflect
2:50:57on anything over like the past few weeks
2:50:59besides like the stuff the last few days
2:51:01where you're like, "Hey, is there like
2:51:03any red flags?" Um, I would say like no.
2:51:07But one thing I did notice one time is
2:51:09we were sitting on my couch and I was
2:51:10telling him like my house I have a
2:51:13really beautiful house. Like it's set up
2:51:14like really nice, but everything I have
2:51:17is like from Craigslist or Goodwill.
2:51:19Like I have pieced it together and it's
2:51:21all or like marked down stuff and I have
2:51:23pieced it together in a way like it's
2:51:25pretty, huh? It's a pretty house, but
2:51:27you would never guess that like
2:51:29everything I got is like super discount.
2:51:31And um one day we were sitting on my
2:51:34couch and we were just like bullshitting
2:51:38about some stuff and I was telling him
2:51:39like, "Oh yeah, you know, like I got
2:51:41this markdown American Furniture cuz
2:51:42like the corner was dented and like I
2:51:44got this one off a guy on Craigslist and
2:51:46I put it all and I was like telling him
2:51:48I was like I put it all together and I
2:51:49was like to me it was like material
2:51:52things don't make a home. I was like
2:51:54it's the energy and the love that you
2:51:55bring to the home. I was like it's not
2:51:57about what it looks like. I was like
2:51:58it's about what you like bring to it.
2:52:01like mentally and he like collapsed in
2:52:05my lap and gave me like the biggest most
2:52:08genuine hug I think that man has ever
2:52:10given me.
2:52:13And he just laid there and he was just
2:52:15like, "You were so different." And I
2:52:17didn't even say anything. I just like
2:52:18put my fingers in his hair and just let
2:52:21him chill there. And I assumed that had
2:52:22to do with the finances, but it didn't
2:52:24like stress me out. It was just like
2:52:27this relief sigh where he just like
2:52:29dropped into my arms and I didn't like
2:52:32really think too much of that event
2:52:34except for that I was like this was like
2:52:35it was like a really genuine hug like
2:52:37collapsed into my lap like just so
2:52:40relieved and I didn't really think much
2:52:42of it until like I started reading about
2:52:45like their bankruptcy and all this other
2:52:47[ __ ] and I was like oh
2:52:50so I think it might have been bigger
2:52:52than he let on cuz he never told me
2:52:54about his bankruptcy
2:52:55>> you know He just told me about his
2:52:56current financials and he didn't even
2:52:57get that in depth, but I'm assuming
2:52:59they're trash. And so, yeah, I think I
2:53:03think her spending all that money and
2:53:06not listening to him and him not
2:53:09standing up for himself in a calm and
2:53:13you know,
2:53:14>> just to elevate.
2:53:15>> Yeah.
2:53:16>> Last question regarding this.
2:53:18>> Go ahead. And then I I have just two
2:53:21cursory questions regarding some
2:53:23something else. And then I think maybe
2:53:24Tim has a few questions for you. But the
2:53:28I think what you um say about the
2:53:30finances directs direct direct directly
2:53:34at his wife. Do you think that goes to
2:53:37the children as well because she took
2:53:41uh did she treat them like that like
2:53:43they were gold and they got everything
2:53:44as well that you know of or do you think
2:53:46there's a separate issue for why he may
2:53:48have um done what he did to his children
2:53:51other than financial?
2:53:53>> That part I don't have an answer for. I
2:53:55can't [ __ ] explain that. I don't even
2:53:57think there is an answer. I don't I
2:53:58don't even think there's any sort of
2:54:00like computing up here that could
2:54:03possibly give a rational explanation for
2:54:06why that would have happened. I mean,
2:54:08the only thing that I've honestly
2:54:09thought of when I play the scenario over
2:54:11in my head is that maybe they woke up
2:54:13and saw him doing and their mom and he
2:54:15was like, "Fuck,
2:54:17now I got to do this, too." I don't
2:54:19know. I'm like I'm like, "Why?" Because
2:54:21they were like his like little lifeline,
2:54:25you know? He that was everything to him,
2:54:27you know? And I get like those two have
2:54:29problems.
2:54:31>> But he had a great relationship is but
2:54:33from what you're accounting is he loved
2:54:35his children.
2:54:36>> Yeah. Like I'm that part it just it's oh
2:54:40my that's the worst part of this whole
2:54:41mess. The worst part of this whole mess.
2:54:43>> We won't dwell. We don't have
2:54:45>> Let me ask you.
2:54:46>> So no I don't I don't have an
2:54:48explanation. That's the only thing I can
2:54:50possibly plausibly think of is maybe
2:54:51they saw it but other than that I don't
2:54:53know
2:54:55what the [ __ ]
2:54:56>> Okay. Who's Charlotte?
2:54:59>> Are you asking me who Charlotte? Like
2:55:01one of my friends?
2:55:03>> Uh, she's like a really good friend of
2:55:05mine. Why
2:55:06>> did you have some conversations with her
2:55:08regarding another boyfriend?
2:55:12>> That you might have met on e-harmony or
2:55:13did she meet somebody on e-harmony?
2:55:16>> No, she's engaged.
2:55:18>> Okay,
2:55:19>> she's engaged.
2:55:20>> So, there's some text messages that
2:55:21between that we got off your phone
2:55:24obviously. Um, and the only reason I'm
2:55:26asking this is because if he found out
2:55:27maybe you had another boyfriend, you
2:55:29understand my my line of questioning
2:55:32that looked like maybe you had another
2:55:34boyfriend. And I don't know if that's
2:55:36this gym guy that maybe you guys were
2:55:38No, I'm not saying that he's your
2:55:39boyfriend. That that when we were
2:55:41interpreting the text messages that it
2:55:43seemed like he might, you know, this man
2:55:44came to my house, he has a key to my
2:55:46house that you're saying right now. When
2:55:48I look at that from my perspective, Jim
2:55:50may be another boyfriend for you.
2:55:52>> Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Charlotte is
2:55:55like my oldest friend. I love
2:55:57>> So, did you have a conversation with
2:55:58Charlotte about Jim?
2:56:01>> I mean, sometimes we talk about him.
2:56:03We're all friends.
2:56:05>> Did or were did you guys ever have a
2:56:07conversation about e-harmony? That
2:56:09>> I mean, possibly. I was on there for a
2:56:11while.
2:56:12>> Okay.
2:56:12>> But I didn't actually ever go out on any
2:56:14dates with guys from e-harmony. Not one.
2:56:17Like, I talked to a couple guys on
2:56:19there, but I was like, "No, I didn't go
2:56:21on any dates." So another the only
2:56:24reason would be another potential reason
2:56:27for him to be upset.
2:56:29>> No, he knew about Jim. He's always known
2:56:32that Jim is one of my good friends. And
2:56:34I lay it out for people at the beginning
2:56:35like I have friends that are male. I
2:56:37have friends that are female. If he's my
2:56:38friends,
2:56:40>> that's what it is. Like he never to me
2:56:42seemed like jealous of Jim by like any
2:56:44means. So no, I'm curious what text
2:56:47you're talking about with Charlotte. I
2:56:49talked to that girl. So,
2:56:50>> I have 153 pages of text messages. So, I
2:56:54can't If I could pull it up, I would,
2:56:55but I don't know where it is.
2:56:56>> I thought you guys just got my text.
2:56:58>> We got uh Can we ask for everything? We
2:57:01for seven days they give us everything.
2:57:03>> Oh, so why did you need to just do that
2:57:04if you just had them?
2:57:06>> Because I don't know that it's they're
2:57:08completely accurate. Again, what they
2:57:10send me is I don't have any way to
2:57:12verify that they're accurate.
2:57:14>> Gotcha. And if you delete a text
2:57:16message, sometimes those are not
2:57:18retained by carriers.
2:57:19>> Um, they're still on your handset.
2:57:22There's way to recover them from your
2:57:23phone, but they may not be held. There
2:57:25are certain carriers that don't even
2:57:27keep text messages, and I won't tell you
2:57:29who those people are, but they don't
2:57:31keep them. We can't even get our hands
2:57:32on because they don't have a database.
2:57:34They don't pay the money. They're stored
2:57:36on your stuff and your stuff only. So,
2:57:39that's why we ask for it. And some of
2:57:40those things disappear in 3 days, 5
2:57:42days, 7 days unless we ask them to keep
2:57:45them. And sometimes we don't know in
2:57:47time. So that's why we do it too. Okay.
2:57:50So just a it was a question because it
2:57:53also would provide potentially a motive
2:57:56for what Chris did if if he found out
2:57:58that you had another boyfriend.
2:57:59>> Why would he kill his family?
2:58:00>> Well, he wigs out and he finds out that
2:58:02you have a boyfriend and just loses it
2:58:04altogether. Do you understand? because
2:58:05he's already losing his wife and now his
2:58:08new girlfriend has another boyfriend and
2:58:09he just he can't there's multiple
2:58:12reasons why it just it was a concern
2:58:15that
2:58:16>> his cheese slid off his cracker.
2:58:20So sad. I don't know. He's like not even
2:58:23the same. I look at those like mug shots
2:58:25and it's they're scary. They scare me.
2:58:29>> Yeah. So just that about that video too.
2:58:32It didn't
2:58:34I had noticed it was
2:58:36I would have been in a wreck. O
2:58:38>> I don't know. I mean I volunteered with
2:58:40some guys for when I did the armed
2:58:42military stuff that had PTSD and they
2:58:44were telling me when they went through
2:58:45trauma that they like kind of locked up.
2:58:47So like I didn't even think it was the
2:58:49fact that he was calm that freaked me
2:58:51out. It was like
2:58:53>> when from the
2:58:54>> Yeah. Oh yeah. It was his like that part
2:58:57didn't because I was like I've seen
2:58:58there's these guys that have been in
2:59:00battle that I've worked with that are
2:59:01like yeah I've experienced this. This is
2:59:03how I handle my trauma. They're like
2:59:05very like just kind of like zombies. But
2:59:09so I didn't hold that against him. It
2:59:11was just his eyes and just the light is
2:59:14gone from his eyes.
2:59:16>> So let me just finish just with a couple
2:59:18quick questions here. But
2:59:20besides the obvious, you know, and and
2:59:22what he's done, uh, did you was there
2:59:25what's the worst thing about this guy?
2:59:28Did you ever have just some sense? You
2:59:30seem to be pretty together with, who you
2:59:32date, people you, you know, hang around
2:59:34with. You you seem to know a lot about
2:59:37people. Was there some impression he
2:59:39gave you?
2:59:42>> Like the whole time we were together?
2:59:44>> Yeah. Anything negative that sticks out?
2:59:46>> I didn't think anything negative. I
2:59:48mean, like, I have preferences. Like, I
2:59:49thought he was like I don't want to use
2:59:52the word cleany cuz it's [ __ ] up. He
2:59:54was like really he was a lot more into
2:59:57me than I was into him. And it didn't
3:00:01make
3:00:02>> Yeah. I mean, I really enjoyed his
3:00:04company though. I mean, enough so that I
3:00:06kept everything going despite the
3:00:10situation. And I mean, like, it didn't
3:00:14scare me or anything. It's just like I
3:00:16don't move that fast. Okay.
3:00:17>> So, I think things were his long-term
3:00:19plans with you. What did what did he
3:00:21discuss with you?
3:00:22>> Well, I mean, we'd like [ __ ] about
3:00:23it every once in a while and be like,
3:00:25"Oh, yeah." Like, I asked him. I was
3:00:27like, "If you didn't have that big
3:00:28house," cuz he didn't want to live in
3:00:30it. And he had made it very clear he
3:00:31didn't pick that out. He didn't none of
3:00:33that. I was like, "Well, if you could
3:00:35have a house that you wanted, what would
3:00:36your house look like?" And he would tell
3:00:38me, he's like, "I want a little ranch
3:00:39home. Like, it doesn't need all these
3:00:41floors. Just a few bedrooms, enough
3:00:44space for my kids, maybe some property
3:00:46so they can like run around. You know,
3:00:48twocar garage, maybe three. Put the old
3:00:51sports car in there cuz they like cars,
3:00:53stuff like that. You know, I tell him,
3:00:55I'm like, I'm simple, too. So, if you
3:00:57end up doing that and we end up staying
3:00:58together, let's do it. But it was never
3:01:00like, sell your house, let's go buy a
3:01:02house. Like, it was very
3:01:03>> You ever say anything about getting
3:01:05married
3:01:05>> to me? Yeah. I mean, it was like a thing
3:01:08where it was like off-handedly like one
3:01:10day maybe this will happen. But again,
3:01:12it was like these were
3:01:14I did not take these as very like deep
3:01:16deep conversations. It wasn't like this
3:01:18is when we're going to get married. This
3:01:20is what's going to go on.
3:01:21>> Okay.
3:01:21>> You know, um
3:01:23>> and you knew him for how long?
3:01:25>> Three total. Just not even not dating
3:01:27him, but I mean when did you when were
3:01:29you first aware of him? How long?
3:01:30>> I don't know. Probably the beginning of
3:01:32June or maybe May. So like two and a
3:01:34half, three months tops. I mean, this is
3:01:36all like really fresh. Like all of this
3:01:38is compounded into like a very small
3:01:40time frame.
3:01:40>> Very quick.
3:01:41>> Yes.
3:01:42>> Has he worked for the company for a
3:01:43while?
3:01:44>> Yeah. I don't know how long. I want to
3:01:46say like five or six years off the top
3:01:47of my head, but I don't know. But
3:01:48>> did he supervise people? Do you know
3:01:50anything about that?
3:01:51>> Uh, yeah, kind of. So, he was an
3:01:54operator. And the way the operators are
3:01:55set up at Anodarco is they have operator
3:01:57one, operator 2, operator 3. But then
3:01:59each operator is like broke down into
3:02:02like the basic guy, the medium guy, and
3:02:04like the fourman. And then it starts all
3:02:06over again. So he is still on level one
3:02:09of the operators, but he's like the top
3:02:10dog on the level one of the operators.
3:02:13>> Okay. The whole time you known him two
3:02:15or three months, did he ever complain of
3:02:17anything, any medical issues whatsoever?
3:02:20And did you ever pick up on anything?
3:02:21Does he is he allergic to anything? Does
3:02:23he have any, you know, a special diet?
3:02:27Anything that's that's messing with him
3:02:28physically?
3:02:29>> Not that I'm aware of.
3:02:30>> Okay. How about psychologically? Do you
3:02:32ever think there's there's something
3:02:33wrong with this guy? No, I wouldn't have
3:02:35dated him if I did. He honestly I mean
3:02:38maybe because I thought he was like one
3:02:40of the like most laid-back and like
3:02:42decent men I'd ever met and I just
3:02:44haven't met a lot of people like that
3:02:46but I mean no not up until all this
3:02:49stuff started happening then I was like
3:02:51whoa you are not the person that I
3:02:54thought you were. Um but prior to that
3:02:57not at all I really didn't. I enjoyed
3:02:59his company.
3:03:00>> You think he was dating anyone else?
3:03:02>> No. No way.
3:03:04>> No.
3:03:04>> Okay.
3:03:05>> He was way too invested in that.
3:03:07>> Um, was the relationship pretty was it
3:03:09sexual right off the bat?
3:03:11>> Pretty close. I mean, like once we got
3:03:13it to be like where we were hanging out
3:03:16outside of work. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't
3:03:18like immediate, but shortly following
3:03:20that. Yes. And then it just continued.
3:03:22>> Okay. Pretty consistently throughout the
3:03:24relationship. So, kind of hot and heavy.
3:03:27Um, you mentioned that maybe you guys
3:03:28were sending some photos back and forth.
3:03:30What What kind of photos is he sending
3:03:31you? Well, see, he would like send me
3:03:34like workout photos, stuff like that. He
3:03:35sent me a couple of inappropriate pics.
3:03:37I did not request those. I didn't even
3:03:39want them. I was just like, "Why?"
3:03:41>> What were they?
3:03:42>> Oh, it was of his his package. I'm just
3:03:45like, "Okay, cool." Um,
3:03:47>> like his face and everything or just
3:03:48>> No, no, no.
3:03:50>> Um,
3:03:52no, that's it. But I think he only did
3:03:54that like one time. Just like I don't
3:03:56even really want this. But usually he
3:03:58would just send me pictures like workout
3:04:00pics, like progress pics, stuff and I
3:04:02would just kind of keep him updated like
3:04:04cuz he like he had some like fitness
3:04:06goals in mind. So I was kind of like
3:04:07trying to help him out with that.
3:04:09>> Okay. When was the last time you guys
3:04:10were intimate?
3:04:12>> Saturday. Saturday.
3:04:14>> At the Broncos game.
3:04:15>> Uhhuh.
3:04:16>> Where where would that have taken place?
3:04:18>> At my house.
3:04:19>> When he went to go pick you up before
3:04:21heading up to uh
3:04:22>> he didn't pick me up. Let me drive my
3:04:24vehicle. But um yeah, prior to and
3:04:28immediately following afterwards.
3:04:31>> So it was like dropped he came to my
3:04:33house, it happened and then we went out
3:04:35to dinner and he came back to my house
3:04:37again and they left.
3:04:38>> Okay.
3:04:42Any other stressors in his life besides
3:04:44finances and that he mentioned?
3:04:47>> I mean
3:04:48>> his wife
3:04:48>> just the fact that they just that she
3:04:51doesn't like let him openly communicate.
3:04:53I mean, but other than that, no.
3:04:57I mean, nothing that I really know of.
3:04:59He was I mean, we didn't like dive super
3:05:02deep into that stuff. It was just like
3:05:04occasionally there'd be a conversation
3:05:05where it would come up and I mean, it
3:05:08wasn't even really information that he
3:05:09wanted to provide. It was just like me
3:05:11being curious like, "Why are you
3:05:12separating from her? This is good to
3:05:14know." Or like, "What are your finances
3:05:16like in case I end up building a life
3:05:18with you?" But it was usually me like
3:05:20doing the inquiries, but I used to try
3:05:22not to be like super invasive about that
3:05:25stuff.
3:05:26>> What are the in your mind again, just
3:05:28real quick, what are the things that
3:05:29that really pop out to you that he would
3:05:31complain about about his wife?
3:05:34>> Just that she didn't listen to him. She
3:05:36like never listened to him. She always
3:05:38just like shut him up. He told me once
3:05:41that she used to like like kind of like
3:05:43talk [ __ ] to him in front of his kids
3:05:45and his kids were starting to repeat it.
3:05:48Can you give me an example?
3:05:50>> Yeah. She said, what did she say? He
3:05:54said he tried to ask her for something
3:05:56and ask her a question. I don't know
3:06:00something. I He didn't like dive super
3:06:02into this. This was like pretty early
3:06:03on. And he she said uh she told him to
3:06:06shut up and then he didn't know
3:06:07anything. And his kid started like
3:06:10repeating it and he said that it made
3:06:13him really sad and he realized that that
3:06:15was when he needed to separate from her.
3:06:19So, and and he never though he said she
3:06:21was a good mom.
3:06:22>> Yeah. I mean, he never complained about
3:06:24her being like a bad mom or neglectful
3:06:26or anything like that.
3:06:27>> Abusive, anything with
3:06:29>> nothing. Nothing when it comes to like
3:06:30violence or anger or any of that.
3:06:32Nothing. I mean, and he even said like,
3:06:34"Yeah, like so she she kind of like gets
3:06:37bossy with me sometimes, but as far as
3:06:39like arguing back and forth, he's like
3:06:41that never happens." He's like, "We
3:06:43don't fight like that." So, I don't
3:06:45know. He seemed pretty like even keeled
3:06:48with stuff. So
3:06:48>> it just Did they talk about how they
3:06:51discipline their kids at all?
3:06:52>> I never asked. I felt like that was not
3:06:54my place.
3:06:55>> Did and he never mentioned it.
3:06:56>> None
3:06:59was
3:07:02just making sure nobody else
3:07:08>> What time is it? So
3:07:10>> it's 8 o'
3:07:11It's time to go.
3:07:14You have my card.
3:07:16Things will probably come to your mind
3:07:18in the next day, week, month,
3:07:22year,
3:07:23especially
3:07:25as you get some sleep and recover here.
3:07:30Please don't hesitate to call me. My
3:07:31email is on there. You can email me. The
3:07:34business phone number on there is not
3:07:36accurate. I used to work in our PBLO
3:07:38office until it
3:07:39>> July. Just call my cell phone. I'm never
3:07:42in my office anyways.
3:07:43>> Okay.
3:07:43>> Okay. my cell phone will always be the
3:07:45same. So, just call my cell phone um and
3:07:48and I will respond to you as soon as I
3:07:50can. If if you need uh you know to send
3:07:53an email again, you can send an email to
3:07:55me. Okay? If I can help you in any way
3:07:59with some services to deal with the
3:08:03obvious trauma that you face, let me
3:08:06know and I'll get you in touch with the
3:08:08people that can help you. Um, also,
3:08:12uh, if you have issues with anybody
3:08:15intimidating you in any fashion, I will
3:08:18tell you right now, I have zero
3:08:19tolerance for that. Zero. I will charge
3:08:23anybody if I can prove it, and I will
3:08:25take them straight to jail. Period. You
3:08:28are not You're not a suspect in
3:08:30anything. You're merely a witness.
3:08:33Unfortunately for you, you met a man who
3:08:35did some terrible things. And I will not
3:08:38I I won't stand for it. I through my
3:08:41career period zero tolerance. You will
3:08:44go straight to jail. You call me
3:08:46immediately and I will handle it.
3:08:47>> I appreciate that.
3:08:49>> And finally,
3:08:51you probably eventually are going to get
3:08:54media inquiries.
3:08:55>> When are you thinking this is going to
3:08:56happen?
3:08:56>> I don't think it's going to happen soon.
3:08:58I really don't. I will tell you today
3:09:00that there was an inquiry from a media
3:09:02member requesting to know if there was
3:09:04any other people involved in Chris's
3:09:06life.
3:09:08Um, you know, is I think there
3:09:12story is they're they're searching but
3:09:15but there is no there's only a multiple
3:09:18couple of time reasons that somebody
3:09:20could think what would cause this.
3:09:23>> Well, they're the financial stuff.
3:09:25They're posting it. I'm seeing it.
3:09:27So, I think there's a buffer for you for
3:09:29a couple of reasons. I told you today I
3:09:30I did not see the affidavit. I don't
3:09:32think your name was mentioned in it.
3:09:34There's no reason for it. I don't think
3:09:36at this time for his arrest when um the
3:09:40affidavit becomes public, which I think
3:09:42they mentioned maybe early next week. Um
3:09:45that'll keep them media busy for a
3:09:48while.
3:09:49>> Her name wasn't in it, did you think?
3:09:50>> I don't think your name wasn't published
3:09:52that thing yet. So, if he
3:09:54>> he um So, I talked to Mark this morning.
3:09:56And I know he has not written a report.
3:09:58Now, I do know that he did talk to um
3:10:02the people yesterday just regarding her
3:10:04because it was important for some of the
3:10:06things we were doing yesterday. Again, I
3:10:08don't think your name appears in that
3:10:10report. Um so, but don't hold me to
3:10:13that. I I didn't write the affidavit,
3:10:15but from from what I know, it doesn't.
3:10:18So, at some point, this your name is
3:10:22going to come out. I mean, there's just
3:10:23no way it's not. And and like I told
3:10:25you, I want
3:10:25>> So what do you think of that is like
3:10:26when we take this to trial, like at what
3:10:29point? Because nobody knows about this,
3:10:32>> right? But Chris does.
3:10:34>> Yeah. I don't think he's in any rush to
3:10:36tell the media anything. I mean, maybe.
3:10:38>> Is there mitigators that he in his mind
3:10:41or again, you got a phone call from the
3:10:44public defenders office? Whether you
3:10:45talked to them or not, that's your
3:10:46business. You didn't?
3:10:48>> I did not.
3:10:48>> Oh, I thought you did.
3:10:50>> I did not. I didn't know what to do.
3:10:52Mark said to ask you what to do.
3:10:54>> Okay. So, did they reach out to you?
3:10:56>> Yep.
3:10:57>> Okay. You
3:10:59can your decision. You don't have to
3:11:01talk to them or you can. Um
3:11:05I I won't say either way. You have to
3:11:09make that decision for yourself.
3:11:10>> I don't really know what to do. I feel
3:11:12like if I talk to them, they're either
3:11:14going to try to like find some holes in
3:11:16my story or try to get me to like be
3:11:18Chris's only ally. And I don't really
3:11:20feel like dealing with either one of
3:11:21those.
3:11:22>> Then I think you've made up your mind.
3:11:24>> Yeah.
3:11:25>> And maybe confide in your father.
3:11:27>> That's what we were talking.
3:11:29>> I can't really give you legal advice.
3:11:31They have every reason to want to talk
3:11:33to you. Just like if they got to you
3:11:36before I did, I would want to talk to
3:11:37you, too. You understand what I mean?
3:11:39And I won't hamper what their
3:11:40investigation is or anything. They they
3:11:43want information, too. Certainly, if
3:11:44they have a client that they are trying
3:11:46to protect and and make sure that
3:11:47everything that we're looking at is is
3:11:50the same thing that they would want,
3:11:51>> but they can get it from you.
3:11:53>> They will get it from us. So, it'll be
3:11:55uh in discovery. They'll get um
3:11:58everything that we've talked about here.
3:11:59And that's so when that happens, which
3:12:02is pretty short order, uh the reports
3:12:05that we will generate, everybody
3:12:07involved in this case will be sent to
3:12:09the public defender's office. I think at
3:12:11that time you might uh find that that um
3:12:15there could be some exposure for you. Um
3:12:18so I I am not going to tell anybody who
3:12:20you are. If somebody called me today, I
3:12:23don't talk to the media. I don't have
3:12:24any business talking to the media. Mark
3:12:26has no business talking to the media.
3:12:28They don't need to know who you are. It
3:12:30your part in this is not relative to
3:12:32anything they you know to this story.
3:12:35it. For me, it it it's nothing that they
3:12:37need to know and um I don't ever give
3:12:39information to anybody.
3:12:40>> They're going to dwell on it though.
3:12:41They're going to try to use that as his
3:12:43why. I don't think it's his why. I
3:12:45really don't.
3:12:46>> That's why we I asked you that question.
3:12:48You think his why is financial
3:12:52and whether or not we ever know what his
3:12:54why is, I don't know.
3:12:55>> Did he tell you guys what his why was?
3:12:57>> I can't tell discuss it with you.
3:12:59>> So, um just a a quick open question.
3:13:04the way the legal system runs, is it um
3:13:10if he totally confesses and pleads
3:13:13guilty,
3:13:14is there a reason for a trial or do they
3:13:17just packing up discoveries together
3:13:19that this proves what he said and
3:13:24>> goes to a kind of court and it's done or
3:13:26>> the purpose for discovery is we have to
3:13:28we're obligated by law to share
3:13:29everything that we know with um the
3:13:31public defender or a private attorney,
3:13:34Um it doesn't go the other way. They
3:13:36don't have to share anything with us. So
3:13:38we are obligated to give them everything
3:13:39we have no matter what happens. Um I can
3:13:42tell you right now probably sometime
3:13:44early this week will be his you know
3:13:46he's going to enter a plea either I'm
3:13:48guilty or not guilty. That will probably
3:13:49be sometime Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday
3:13:52of this coming week would I would
3:13:53imagine from what I heard today. Now it
3:13:56might be a little more delayed and then
3:13:57that starts the legal process. So, if he
3:14:01pleads guilty,
3:14:01>> if he pleads guilty,
3:14:03>> um, you know, could that happen today?
3:14:06Sure. Certainly. I mean, he could go to
3:14:07his attorneys. You've seen it happen
3:14:08before. Um, if he pleads guilty, is that
3:14:12information still available? Absolutely.
3:14:15Because there's still uh got to be legal
3:14:18process regarding is he competent to
3:14:21stand uh for can he make that plea?
3:14:25Are are the attorneys going to allow him
3:14:27to do so? you you know what I'm talking
3:14:29about. So that all that information
3:14:31still goes to them. Um and then that
3:14:34would play into you know potentially
3:14:36what is the sentence, what what could be
3:14:38the penalty, all those things have to be
3:14:41looked at by attorneys. So um there is
3:14:43no not them ever getting her name. uh it
3:14:47is going to be there at some point and
3:14:49um I don't know I I understand your fear
3:14:52and that's why I told you that if
3:14:54anybody I don't care if somebody calls
3:14:56you and says you know anything minor you
3:14:59call me and let me know please I won't I
3:15:02will not stand for that. Well, I'm
3:15:04having
3:15:05>> So, it's the It would be the the news
3:15:08people would only be the ones that And
3:15:10of course, they already know what to
3:15:12>> Ah, work is going to be such a mess,
3:15:14too. That's going to be like a whole
3:15:16another level. Like, everybody at my
3:15:17work I heard was so like just damaged
3:15:20and broken today. And then it's like,
3:15:22let's just add Nikki into this whole
3:15:24mix.
3:15:26It's not going to be good for all of
3:15:27their like mentally either. It's just
3:15:30going to be a mess.
3:15:31>> Maybe your
3:15:34employer could transfer you to another
3:15:36business.
3:15:38>> I think that's a fair state. I will tell
3:15:40you right now that I Anadargo has been
3:15:42very very helpful with us and is very
3:15:45concerned about their employees in this
3:15:48event. Um and I I'm tired too. Uh but
3:15:52you may your employ your employer
3:15:55definitely is has an indication of your
3:15:58relationship with Chris. I would think
3:16:00>> they're not my employer. Oh, that's
3:16:02right. You work for a different company.
3:16:04>> Yeah, but you're saying Darko has an in
3:16:08has a knowledge of that.
3:16:10>> Well, you talking about Tasman or
3:16:12Inadarko?
3:16:13>> I don't even know what Tasmin is.
3:16:14>> Tasmin is the people that cut my check
3:16:16and I'm contracted out to APC.
3:16:18>> So, I think people um have suspicion
3:16:22that there was a relationship with
3:16:24Chris. Not saying you, but they may know
3:16:26that I think there was some suspicion
3:16:28that he was having a relationship with
3:16:29somebody else. not your name
3:16:31specifically, but if you went to your
3:16:33bosses and said, "I have an issue that I
3:16:37don't, you know, like your dad's saying,
3:16:39I think that you might find that they'll
3:16:41just get you out of there."
3:16:43>> See, that's what and that's what we were
3:16:45talking about today because they
3:16:46probably have a policy for um
3:16:49psychological help. They probably have a
3:16:52policy for uh inquisitive, you know,
3:16:56people bugging other employees.
3:16:59That's a big company with a lot of HR
3:17:02and there's
3:17:03>> Do you have an employee assistance
3:17:05program?
3:17:07>> Oh yeah, that's so that they were there
3:17:09all day today but it's like I got so
3:17:11many calls today from
3:17:13>> those are questions that you can ask
3:17:14them anonymously and that information is
3:17:17red.
3:17:17>> That's what I was saying because if
3:17:19>> so what am I supposed to do? Tell my
3:17:20boss.
3:17:21>> Well, what? No, but they're your bosses
3:17:25are going to want rumor mongers. They're
3:17:29not going to want
3:17:31people stressing you out. They're not
3:17:33going to wait. They don't want erratic
3:17:35workflow. They don't want any of that.
3:17:37So, they'll you'll probably do a
3:17:39broadcast letter of anybody that was
3:17:42friends, acquaintances of it all
3:17:44>> or anything else. Please respect that
3:17:47employees feelings and write there. Oh,
3:17:50and by the way, if any of you have
3:17:51problems, you can call Mickey Mouse at,
3:17:55>> you know, and that and that's probably
3:17:57>> they probably have a policy with that.
3:17:59>> Here's the problem. I don't work for
3:18:02them.
3:18:04>> But they can still
3:18:05>> But I if I'm like transer me like
3:18:08they're going to be like, you're not
3:18:09even our employee. Like I'm pretty sure
3:18:11I'm about to lose my job over this.
3:18:13>> No, I know you're not. Why would you
3:18:15lose your job?
3:18:16>> I don't know. cuz I feel like people are
3:18:17going to just complain about being
3:18:18uncomfortable with working with me. Like
3:18:20I I am not going to have any respect
3:18:23from anybody there. I think I will have
3:18:25like two people that still
3:18:26>> You really didn't do anything wrong.
3:18:29>> I had an affair with a married man who
3:18:32lied to me and made me believe that he
3:18:35really wasn't like as married as I think
3:18:37he was. But the media is not going to be
3:18:40so kind to let everybody know that. I
3:18:43think people are going to think I'm like
3:18:45the reason that he went off the deep
3:18:46end.
3:18:48>> That's pro probably a fair state. I
3:18:50would probably agree with you to some
3:18:51effect. But if these people, you know,
3:18:53him at work then
3:18:55>> and the company will
3:18:57>> point buffer that as much as they can
3:19:01because if not it'd be it'd be chaos
3:19:04amongst employees and they can't have
3:19:06that.
3:19:06>> I am just so sad. just not good in their
3:19:09best
3:19:09>> the job of all jobs I've ever had in my
3:19:12life and I [ __ ] it up.
3:19:15>> Well, you've been out in the field what
3:19:17you've been home uh 3 months of the year
3:19:20on an average
3:19:22>> in staggered amount out in the middle of
3:19:25nowhere on oil rigs. This little thing
3:19:28was out hanging on oil rigs and now they
3:19:31got her an environmental where she's
3:19:33able to clean up stuff,
3:19:36>> right? And it's a hot job, man. It's
3:19:38just a hot job. And
3:19:40>> I I mean, would you adise
3:19:43I can't give you legal advice. Maybe the
3:19:45best thing to do on that is talk to your
3:19:48EAP,
3:19:49>> whoever the employees assistance people
3:19:51are. They're anonymous. They know all
3:19:53your HR rules. They know all your policy
3:19:55and procedure stuff. And how do I how
3:19:59can I mitigate this? And also for that
3:20:02your problem too is not just it is this
3:20:06going to become an environment where you
3:20:08can't work um you know so you have to
3:20:10call those people and say I don't want
3:20:12this to happen so how do we take care of
3:20:13it I want to continue to work for you
3:20:15guys I love my job whatever um you know
3:20:17just be proactive I don't know um your
3:20:21boss is on site
3:20:23>> yeah she's pretty cool I don't know
3:20:26she's
3:20:26>> I think that's a personal decision you
3:20:28have to make
3:20:30>> I mean I didn't even think about talking
3:20:32to them at all. But I keep thinking
3:20:33about I'm like, man, when my name gets
3:20:35out in the news, this is about to be
3:20:36crazy. Like I have people calling me all
3:20:38day. Like my office mate would not shut
3:20:40up. She just called me today and she was
3:20:42just like, "Oh my god, did you read this
3:20:44article and this article and what did
3:20:45you think and oh my god and this and
3:20:46this?" And I'm just like, "I don't I
3:20:49don't want to talk about this. Please
3:20:50leave me alone." And like it was really
3:20:52overwhelming. And my project manager
3:20:54called me and he's really chill. So we
3:20:56made it a very quick conversation, but
3:20:58some people just like didn't get it. And
3:21:00it's so hard to make me feel like I'm
3:21:03>> lying to them.
3:21:04>> I'd get in front of it. No, don't.
3:21:06>> Yeah, because it I don't think it would
3:21:09be in their best interest legally,
3:21:11morally, or profit-wise to have
3:21:16a bunch of junk going on. They would
3:21:18suppress it to keep it at least where
3:21:21everybody's treated with respect
3:21:23throughout the company. This is a tough
3:21:25situation. you know, they'll put the
3:21:29presidential speech in
3:21:30>> my job like 75% of that at home.
3:21:33>> I already been thinking about that. I
3:21:35was thinking about just asking little
3:21:37like, "Hey, man, just let me come in at
3:21:38like 5 in the morning and deal with the
3:21:39gas monitors like two days a week. No, I
3:21:41don't even know.
3:21:42>> I believe that
3:21:43>> and let me just work at home."
3:21:45>> They probably made a statement on that.
3:21:47What do you call it? OP or
3:21:49>> EAP? EPA.
3:21:51>> They put out a notice today. If they put
3:21:53that out and it says your
3:21:54confidentiality will be respected,
3:21:57>> it has to be.
3:21:58>> If that got leaked through an HR
3:22:00department and that got out after you
3:22:03told them something, that would not be
3:22:05good for
3:22:06>> employment law is very strict on that
3:22:08kind of stuff. And I think you should
3:22:10just not attack it but be proactive in
3:22:13it and snuff it because
3:22:15>> and what just go tell my boss like
3:22:18not what I told you guys but like a
3:22:20summed up version of it like hey your
3:22:23name is about to get released in the
3:22:24media and there's a lot of stuff
3:22:25>> I don't know if I'd do that in that
3:22:27fashion. I might just you just need to
3:22:29figure out a tactful way to do that. And
3:22:32perhaps in an employment there is
3:22:34attorneys that deal with employment law.
3:22:35Um and maybe you want to reach out to
3:22:37one of them that might help you. I don't
3:22:39know. Um you know, it's it's a decision
3:22:42that you might need to make or you might
3:22:44want to talk I think I would talk to EAP
3:22:46first because it's not going to cost you
3:22:47any money. Um
3:22:48>> see if they'll do something. I hope so
3:22:50because they're not actually my
3:22:51employer. So
3:22:52>> Well, they're an outside agency that
3:22:54just knows what's going on. But both
3:22:57both companies, it would be in their
3:22:58best interest to protect
3:23:00>> everybody,
3:23:02>> including all the foremen he worked
3:23:04with,
3:23:05>> apprentices he worked with. I mean, all
3:23:07of those people have a lot of
3:23:09information, too.
3:23:10>> Not like me.
3:23:11>> But again, they don't want to hear it.
3:23:14They don't want to have, you know, they
3:23:15don't want to talk about it. They have
3:23:17the same rights. So, it would be a
3:23:20companywide thing. So, I would just
3:23:22>> on the media side,
3:23:23>> we'll work on that.
3:23:23>> Yeah. I think you've got a grip on that.
3:23:26Um on the media stuff for you, I
3:23:28wouldn't talk to the media. Just tell
3:23:29them you don't have any comment. And for
3:23:31you, probably the same. And if they just
3:23:33persist, um you know, maybe put put
3:23:37somebody things like your dad is your
3:23:40your biggest confidant here and maybe
3:23:42make a brief statement. If you know, my
3:23:44daughter doesn't want to say anything,
3:23:45have a nice day, whatever. You know,
3:23:47because if you appease them a little
3:23:48bit, sometimes they'll go away. That
3:23:50would just be my suggestion. Um, don't
3:23:53talk to them. You don't need to.
3:23:55>> I'm not going to. I guess they're going
3:23:57to make their own assumptions.
3:24:00>> So does your neighbor. So does the
3:24:02>> right talk. As soon as they figure out
3:24:04who you are, they're going to talk to
3:24:06your neighbor and they're going to say,
3:24:07"Oh yeah, I saw Chris, you know, and her
3:24:09together." Whatever. You know what's
3:24:11going to happen. Just prepare yourself
3:24:13and then it won't be
3:24:16>> swarm my house.
3:24:17>> I don't think so.
3:24:18>> No, they were like swarming his. He told
3:24:20me, he's like, "There's media
3:24:21everywhere." And it's just like, I hope
3:24:23that does not happen to me. I mean, I
3:24:26have like a little I have like a safe
3:24:28house in Denver that I can go to that I
3:24:30have the keys to that has nobody there
3:24:33ever. All I have to do is check the mail
3:24:37and there's no questions asked and
3:24:39nobody knows where it is and I'm not
3:24:41telling anybody. But it's like a really
3:24:43nice spot for me to like hide out and I
3:24:46don't have any friends in that building.
3:24:48I mean, it's an apartment, but it's
3:24:50>> and we will answer your phone calls, but
3:24:51the safe house is from
3:24:53>> the safe house. The safe house
3:24:54>> people banging on her apartment.
3:24:56>> When should I go there? When do you
3:24:57think all this is going to start
3:24:59happening? I mean, it's kind of
3:25:00>> I mean, might be just good for you to go
3:25:02there anyways for your sanity and stay
3:25:06away from this place that you had a
3:25:07connection to this man with and get your
3:25:09thoughts in order.
3:25:10>> I'm so sad. That was my nest. It was
3:25:12like such a warm little place. Now, it's
3:25:15like I haven't even slept in my bed.
3:25:17I've just been sleeping on the couch
3:25:18with the dog.
3:25:21I don't even want to do it.
3:25:24>> What other questions can we answer
3:25:26before we go? I I I don't foresee
3:25:29talking to you again regarding this now.
3:25:32An attorney might review something and
3:25:33go, "Hey, can you ask her another
3:25:34question?" Um, and that would be a long
3:25:37ways down the line. I don't think
3:25:38there's anything else. I let you talk
3:25:40for a long time today to get it all out.
3:25:43um so we don't have to do this again cuz
3:25:45I don't want to traumatize you again. Um
3:25:47but if there is important things that
3:25:49come up, please know that I do want to
3:25:52talk to you about those other things
3:25:53that we haven't talked about today or if
3:25:55something just I mean I got to tell them
3:25:58just call me.
3:25:59>> I mean like some things I thought were
3:26:01really important like the other day like
3:26:02I didn't mention the wedding ring thing
3:26:03and then I was like that was really
3:26:05creepy. I should probably tell them
3:26:07about that.
3:26:07>> And yeah,
3:26:09>> and you got those cards. I gave you
3:26:11those cards. So, you gave me cards and
3:26:12there was clothing in there.
3:26:14>> Yeah. I just I don't care what you do
3:26:15with it all. I just don't want
3:26:16>> the clothing. Was any of the clothing
3:26:18anything he wore this weekend or is it
3:26:20stuff that was from
3:26:21>> No, no, no. It was like stuff that he
3:26:23brought over like prior to that. None of
3:26:25that. Like some of it's been washed and
3:26:27folded since then. Yeah. I just wanted
3:26:29it out of my house and didn't want to
3:26:30throw it away.
3:26:31>> We'll take care of it.
3:26:33>> We'll take care of that. Um, if I have
3:26:36questions on the context of a text
3:26:37message, I might just call you and say,
3:26:40"Hell, does this mean because I might
3:26:42not understand what you were talking
3:26:43about, if that's okay with you.
3:26:45>> Yeah, that's fine.
3:26:46>> If if it's I'm not going to bother you
3:26:48unless it's really important because I
3:26:50think I have everything I need from you
3:26:51today."
3:26:52>> Okay. Yeah. We just wanted to make sure
3:26:53you guys had it so that
3:26:54>> Well, and we don't I don't
3:26:56>> find the right person or something.
3:26:57>> We don't want to do it. Yeah. and we
3:27:00know we have the right person and I am
3:27:02sorry that you're involved. I am It's
3:27:06never a good time
3:27:08to say anything like that, but it's it's
3:27:10a bad deal. This whole thing is and this
3:27:12is one of the tougher cases that I think
3:27:15I've been doing this a long time. It's
3:27:17you know it's tough. So for you it's
3:27:19even tougher. And don't
3:27:23forget to reach out to somebody for your
3:27:25sanity. Like I told I asked you
3:27:27downstairs a question and you said no.
3:27:29You remember what question I asked you,
3:27:31right?
3:27:33>> Well, you know how many questions you
3:27:36asked me?
3:27:36>> I want a pizza.
3:27:38>> Well, hell, I want food, too. No, I
3:27:40asked you if you had any um concern. I
3:27:43asked if I should be concerned at all
3:27:45about you hurt hurting yourself.
3:27:46>> Oh, no. I don't feel the need to do
3:27:49that. I just want people to leave me
3:27:51alone. I just feel like I want to like
3:27:53hide for a little while while Please
3:27:56reach out to your family or even me and
3:27:59if there's any if you have anything
3:28:00that's struggling I like I told you
3:28:03there's people I can put you in touch
3:28:04that will talk to you. I'm not a
3:28:06psychologist. I'm not that's not what I
3:28:09am. But people sometimes that get caught
3:28:11in these situations they end up having
3:28:14lots of emotional issues and you need to
3:28:16address them. Don't just hide that
3:28:19stuff. Okay.
3:28:21>> All right. Um, are you guys gonna help?
3:28:23>> Super super intelligent. So,
3:28:25>> I can appreciate that.
3:28:27>> That's Matt's compliment.
3:28:28>> When we go to like trial for this, if
3:28:30that's what he so feels the need to take
3:28:33this to, um, are you guys going to help
3:28:35like coach me through these questions?
3:28:37So, we would be there um to redisuss our
3:28:43conversation today, the conversation you
3:28:45had with Mark, and then an attorney
3:28:47would um talk to you prior to any
3:28:50questioning on the stand regarding what
3:28:52kind of questions they're going to ask
3:28:53you. And really, the only thing you have
3:28:55to remember, I mean, if you're worried
3:28:57about your recollection or your recall
3:29:00or, you know, how you might remember
3:29:02this, everybody worries about that. Even
3:29:05we do. We spend hours on the stand and
3:29:07it's very difficult. But the only thing
3:29:09you have to remember is tell the truth
3:29:12and the truth will never change in your
3:29:14mind. You know what happened during
3:29:16these six weeks. You know what happened
3:29:18on Monday and Tuesday. And as long as
3:29:20you tell the truth, then there's nothing
3:29:23to be worried about. If you don't
3:29:24remember something, you don't remember
3:29:26it. Um, might they pick on you a little
3:29:28bit about that? Absolutely. They usually
3:29:30pick on us a lot more than they do you
3:29:32guys. So, um, but that's so far down the
3:29:37road.
3:29:38>> How long are we talking? Like, how long
3:29:40>> that could be?
3:29:41>> Well, so he has the right to a speedy
3:29:43trial once he makes a plea, which is 45
3:29:45days. Do I think that's going to happen?
3:29:48Absolutely not. I can tell you that the
3:29:50majority of the homicides that I work on
3:29:53average somewhere between one and three
3:29:56years.
3:29:57>> Yeah, look at the clown. I got to just
3:29:58deal with the media like knocking on my
3:30:01door like that for like three years.
3:30:03>> This case will be hot until the next
3:30:06>> unfortunately
3:30:08crazy case comes up and and you know
3:30:11it's true.
3:30:12>> I don't know if you watch the news.
3:30:13There's a reason I really don't.
3:30:15>> But you know there's something new every
3:30:17week that's the hot topic. This one
3:30:19might be hot for a week, two, three,
3:30:21whatever. and then something else is
3:30:23going to happen and and they're going to
3:30:25forget all about this one until it comes
3:30:27back to court and then it's going to be
3:30:29revived if it if it ever does. I don't
3:30:31know what that, you know, he has all
3:30:33sorts of he could plea, he could say, "I
3:30:35want to go to trial. I didn't do this."
3:30:37Whatever. He could say whatever. Um, so
3:30:40it could be tomorrow. It could be five
3:30:43years. It's it just depends. I mean,
3:30:45there's a lot of things that can slow
3:30:47cases down. Um,
3:30:49>> look at that the thing. I mean, that was
3:30:51a whirlwind for what, a month or so?
3:30:54>> Sure. And then all of a sudden it
3:30:58as soon as people started figuring out
3:31:00what that guy was all about, all of a
3:31:01sudden they started just like,
3:31:03>> man, he's weird. He was psycho. Look at
3:31:05him. And it just kind of just
3:31:07>> And then he shows up like every
3:31:10>> a huge that's a huge huge event. You
3:31:13know, certainly
3:31:13>> shows up every six months or a year.
3:31:15>> Sure.
3:31:16>> You know, I mean, you look at I I just
3:31:19there's no way to to know that. But if
3:31:21like your dad's saying, you know, like
3:31:22on that that guy was sent to the state
3:31:24hospital for evaluation, that takes a
3:31:26long long time and that can draw out
3:31:28cases. If there's evaluations, there's
3:31:31all sorts of things that come into play
3:31:32that really don't worry about. Um is put
3:31:36this thing out of your mind as much as
3:31:38you can and when the time comes, if it
3:31:42ever does that you had to testify,
3:31:46you will be in good hands. We'll take
3:31:48care of you. the the attorneys panel in
3:31:50this case are going to, you know, take
3:31:52care of whatever needs to happen. Okay.
3:31:56>> If you have questions that you can't
3:31:57pick up, just call them.
3:31:59>> Yeah. I don't I don't think we're going
3:32:01to talk to the other side from what we
3:32:03were discussing. They can get the
3:32:05discoveries from you guys.
3:32:07>> I don't want to deal with him anymore.
3:32:08Mark already said he's like he might try
3:32:10to call you. I think I'm going to just
3:32:12ignore that.
3:32:14>> Who? Chris.
3:32:20I don't know.
3:32:23>> Did they find those little girls yet?
3:32:26>> They thought or they knew where they
3:32:28were at. You don't know yet? You have
3:32:30been in here with me,
3:32:30>> right?
3:32:33Oh my god.
3:32:35I find the whole thing very weird at the
3:32:38close as much as you told me that he
3:32:41doesn't
3:32:43he was as normal as he was, but yet some
3:32:48very close friend would call within a
3:32:51couple of hours of her not answering the
3:32:53door. What was it?
3:32:55>> Well, I think she was like on meds or
3:32:57something like so I think he she wasn't
3:32:59concerned. to call but to call the
3:33:01police within just like the same day and
3:33:04yet he acted normal on this end. That is
3:33:07just that is weird.
3:33:09>> Somebody there's
3:33:12two different lives there or something.
3:33:14>> Oh, there's definitely two different
3:33:15lives there. That's why sometimes I have
3:33:16to like I feel like when he's like what
3:33:19did she people like what did he say
3:33:20about her? And it's just like I don't
3:33:23even know if I want to say it cuz who
3:33:24knows if that's what's really happening.
3:33:26I mean maybe maybe not. Uh, Molly called
3:33:30me back. So, we'll call her tomorrow.
3:33:33>> Okay. I think I might need to approach
3:33:35Anna Darco. I really don't want to go to
3:33:37work tomorrow. I don't think I'm going
3:33:39to
3:33:41think I'm going to just take the week
3:33:42off and then things out on the weekend
3:33:45and then I can like reach out to my
3:33:48supervisor and EAP or whatever.
3:33:51>> Yeah, you need a little sleep and some
3:33:52time.
3:33:52>> Yeah, you definitely need some sleep.
3:33:54Don't drive tonight. I'm here. p.m.
3:33:57>> She's uh I'm going to drive her home and
3:33:59then all the way back.
3:34:02>> I'll walk you guys down.
3:34:04>> You going to get

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of Nichol Kessinger FINALLY Speaks | Uncut Police Interview Chris Watts Case by Criminal Cases Journal, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 43,796 words across 6,242 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.