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Next Generation Hospitality: Interview with CityHub's Head of Expansion Martial Robardet — Transcript

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0:00Thank you so much for joining me. I've
0:01been waiting for this talk for a while.
0:03Thanks for the invitation.
0:04Yeah.
0:05I'm really happy to be talking today
0:07about CityHub.
0:09Such a cool brand doing sustainable
0:11traveling. You have these really awesome
0:13pods that I want to hear all about.
0:16And also about you as head of expansion
0:19at CityHub.
0:19So first thanks for for inviting me. I'm
0:22very happy to be here and happy to share
0:24more about CityHub. As you may have seen
0:27so CityHub is a very
0:30out of the box I would say or innovative
0:32hotel concept that was created in in the
0:35Netherlands in 2015 with the aim
0:39to fill the gap between hostel and and
0:41hotel I would say.
0:43It was since beginning centered around
0:45the guest experience.
0:47And with the idea to offer at the same
0:49time more privacy and comfort like in a
0:51hotel.
0:52And
0:53to keep the sense of community and
0:55affordability you would find in in a
0:57hostel.
0:58Everyone listening should definitely
0:59also check out the website because when
1:01you see the structure of your your pods
1:03or your capsules, you understand really
1:06how like compact yet super cool your you
1:10know the the hospitality experience that
1:12you're providing is.
1:13Actually you're you're right. The
1:14concept is very very different. Our
1:17brand promise was to offer this nice
1:20stay at an affordable price in city
1:22center locations across Europe. We all
1:24know I mean for people working in real
1:26estate that city center in large cities
1:28means expensive square meters. And if
1:31you want to be affordable you have kind
1:32of challenge. And and so at CityHub we
1:36had two main innovation. First one was
1:38the hub which is the most visible part I
1:40would say of the of the concept. So
1:43basically we have some capsules or pods.
1:46We call them hub. Hubs
1:48that are
1:50that we design and are specifically made
1:52for for CityHub. They are very space
1:54efficient. So the footprint of these two
1:57uh pods on top of each other is 8 square
1:59meters, which is very uh
2:01space-efficient. And the gross area per
2:03key, so if you take the full the total
2:05space of the hotel divided by the number
2:07of keys, we are around 15 square meters.
2:10Just to give you an idea, a traditional
2:12hotel like economy hotel, so which is
2:14already efficient, like an Ibis for
2:16instance, uh would be around 30 35
2:19square meter per key. So, it means that
2:21we are
2:22double more efficient, if I can say, or
2:23we can place double the number of
2:26the same space. And to be that
2:27efficient, what we did actually is that
2:30we uh
2:31cut the uh the room concept back to the
2:35essential, which is the bed or the bed
2:37functions, I would say, and we remove
2:39all the rest, so the bathrooms, the
2:40desks, the sitting area, and we put it
2:43in the shared uh public spaces
2:46with the idea that by mutualizing, we
2:48can offer a better quality, a better
2:50design, and a better experience. And so,
2:52you have these
2:54small but very nice sleeping units, the
2:57hubs, and you have like these public
2:58spaces that are designed with a real
3:01intention to create like a great
3:03experience. So, if I take the example of
3:05uh of Copenhagen, for instance, uh we
3:08have like these big bathroom, we have
3:09these big shower cubicles that are very
3:12deep. You have the rain showers, you
3:14have kimonos in actually in the hubs to
3:16go to the bathrooms, and you even have,
3:18for instance, a saunas in the in the
3:20bathrooms, which is not a level of of
3:23product or services you would expect
3:24from a hostel or even an economy hotel.
3:27And we often say that we actually we
3:28really focus on this kind of uh
3:31experience, obviously, but wellness,
3:33uh and the bathroom for us is really
3:35like a major point of attention. And for
3:38some other uh competitors, they would
3:40rather be on the on the bar and in the
3:42F&B part. For us, it's more the bathroom
3:44in the end. And
3:46and the with this idea to create a space
3:48that are a bit more like a upscale gym
3:50or or even a spa. I mean, they obviously
3:52they are shared and they remain shared
3:54by firms, but uh with a a much better
3:56higher quality and better experience.
4:00I was saying we had two innovations. The
4:02other innovation is all about
4:03technology. So, in the hotel, everything
4:05is supported by tech. Kind of shy tech,
4:07so you don't feel like you are with
4:08robots, but
4:10most of most of the things are are
4:11automated. And actually, we use
4:13technology to actually put the human
4:16back at the center of the experience.
4:18And so, we try to remove all of these
4:20administrative low added value tasks
4:23from our employees, so they can really
4:25focus 100% of their time on the guest
4:27experience on the guest and so the guest
4:29experience. So, if you have
4:31any question, want to have a chat, or or
4:34want anything in the hotel, you can find
4:35the CDOs. They are always available
4:37because they don't have any other things
4:39to do.
4:40And their job is much more like a guest
4:42relation manager than than a a
4:44receptionist or barman, for instance,
4:46which is a level of of of services you
4:49would normally find only in a four five
4:50star hotels, which again is not
4:52something you would find or expect from
4:54that economy or hostel type of hotels.
4:57Yeah, yeah. It's amazing because you
4:59created this hybrid between luxury and
5:02high-end hotels to hostels, affordable,
5:06cool, and young places to be.
5:08Yeah. I think it's also it's really
5:09designed and catered for like
5:11millennials and Gen Z. I mean,
5:12obviously, everybody is very welcome.
5:14But, you know, like these generations,
5:16they are very tech-savvy, they are very
5:18I mean, they grew up with a with with
5:20technology and they really want or
5:22really like when everything goes fast.
5:24And so, at Zoku, we have this been like
5:26checking kiosk. You do your checking
5:27yourself. It's super super fast, super
5:29seamless, very efficient. At the end of
5:32the checking, you activate the
5:33wristband.
5:34Uh they are super nicely designed, by
5:36the way. They look like I mean, like,
5:38you know, like the wristband you get in
5:39a in a festival. You activate the
5:41wristband. In the wristband, there is a
5:43a RFID chip, so the same technology as
5:45the contactless payment for the credit
5:46card. And that becomes the key for
5:48everything in the in the hotel. So, if
5:50you want anything in the hotel, you just
5:52scan your wristband. Then you can serve
5:54yourself. So, there is a very
5:57creates a very informal space also in
5:59the hotel that there is no barrier
6:01between the employees and the and the
6:03guest. They are very free and powered to
6:05do whatever they want within obviously
6:07the limit of what they can do, but you
6:09really feel like you really have this
6:10homey feeling, I would say. And surely
6:12because you can really help yourself to
6:14whatever you want. And at the same time,
6:16it also for us means that we need less
6:19people to operate the hotel. So, in
6:20terms I mean, with this aim to be
6:22affordable, it's also quite important to
6:24be able to manage
6:26your costs.
6:28And but it's not dehumanizing the hotel.
6:31Actually, that's really the opposite.
6:32And like I said, the idea was to put
6:34back the human at the center. And so,
6:36the CTOs are actually their hands are
6:39always free to
6:40to take care of the of the guest. And
6:42they would be uh yeah, like this guest
6:44relation manager where you can have a
6:46chat with them in the hotel, but also
6:47through the app. And you also really
6:49create this community between the the
6:51the travelers and the and and the
6:53employees. And that really works very
6:56That's the thing that really works well
6:57also, I think so.
6:58I love it that you have this really
7:00structured vision and mission that
7:02you're on, and you're talking about it
7:03in such a passionate way. Like you can
7:05tell that you really think it's so cool.
7:08Sounds like
7:09um
7:10and I'm wondering about your specific
7:11position as head of expansion for
7:14CityHub. Can you tell me a little bit
7:15about what you're doing? Um
7:18what's your plans for expansion? Uh and
7:21then from there, we can maybe talk a
7:22little bit about Ryan and how it helps
7:24you in your position.
7:25So, the CityHub, we have three hotels at
7:27the moment. So, two in the Netherlands,
7:28one in uh in Copenhagen. We have two
7:31more properties in the pipeline. We're
7:33going to open in Reykjavik next summer.
7:35We also have Hamburg in the in the
7:37pipeline
7:38uh for an opening in 2025. And then
7:40we're really looking to expand further
7:42in in Europe
7:44in general. We target mostly
7:46big international cities but also
7:49major regional cities, I would say.
7:52So we have in Europe we have something
7:54like 30 target cities. We also a very
7:56young company so we still a startup. We
7:59have not that many people at the
8:00headquarter. We have big ambitions and
8:04for us I think Real is very useful in
8:07the sense that we can
8:10super easy to to to to use. And we can
8:13do like very professional
8:16feasibility studies in a very easily and
8:20that help us also when we speak with
8:22developers, with property investors,
8:25with all our contacts in the in the in
8:27the
8:28development world to to to come with
8:31plans and to show like a very
8:33professional plans. That really helps to
8:36sell the product, sell the idea of doing
8:38a CDM to look very professional when you
8:41are a startup and you don't have like
8:42unlimited resources. That really helps
8:45also to create like this trust and
8:48create a strong relationship with the
8:50with the partners. So I would say we are
8:52very happy and actually the team managed
8:56to use or learn to to to use the the
8:59the tools very easily, very quickly and
9:02I'm really impressed actually by the
9:03quality of work we can we can produce
9:06and it's really changed I think it was
9:08really a game changer I can say game
9:10changer. Really changed like our
9:12approach to plans. Before actually
9:14before that
9:16we were working with architects. And
9:19so and for to do a feasibility for a
9:21project we would wait for a project to
9:23be
9:24a bit more advanced to be a bit more
9:26some sort of commitment at least to
9:29exchange like
9:31indicative offer with the other party
9:32that they show interest, you know, like
9:34you are in a ballpark position. We were
9:36doing our first feasibility, I would say
9:39like a estimate for the number of units
9:41on big ratio, so it was
9:43uh more approximative, I would say. And
9:47and so because we we would work with
9:49architects, we would wait a bit longer
9:51to to be a bit further down in the
9:53project uh to to to to do a preliminary
9:56feasibility. But with Freudian,
9:58actually, we can start it much earlier.
10:00It helps to be also more precise in our
10:02feasibility. So, instead of assuming we
10:04were going to be I don't know, around
10:06100 keys, we can say like precisely it's
10:08going to be 97, 98 or less or more.
10:13But it also, like I said already, helped
10:14in the relationship with the with the
10:16partners to come up with a something
10:18that is already designed. I mean,
10:20obviously, we are not architects. Uh so,
10:22it's
10:23uh subject to uh to uh to to further
10:26feasibility studies, to work with actual
10:28architects. But it just give at least uh
10:31uh
10:32um I would say like a um
10:35a sense of how committed or how serious
10:37we are about the projects. We're not
10:38just like dropping numbers like that.
10:41And it really helps, like I said, create
10:43this trust and and and reinforce the the
10:46the relationship, but also like the uh
10:49likelihood or feasibility of the
10:50project, which is basically
10:52Well, that's amazing. You've mentioned
10:54so many of, you know, the value
10:56proposition that we're trying to give at
10:57Freudian. So, I'm really happy to hear
10:59you, you know, say all that. Um I think,
11:02you know, one of our missions is to
11:04democratize space design and working
11:06with floor plans today for people that
11:08are not architects or designers, it's
11:10really hard to extract the information
11:12from floor plans.
11:13So, it sounds like that's exactly what
11:15you're doing. You're saying that, um you
11:18know, the team learned this
11:19independently and easily. It enabled you
11:21to communicate with other stakeholders,
11:24um and to get information faster. So,
11:26that's like three key things.
11:28And I think we probably
11:31We we're probably using just like 10% of
11:33the capacity of Fre and we still have a
11:35lot of things to learn. But
11:37yeah, I mean it's just so easy and once
11:40we have defined like the design of the
11:41hubs, we can just like reproduce them
11:44like super easily. They are directly at
11:45scale on the on the plans. I think that
11:48was the most the the the the biggest
11:50constraint if you do
11:52plans.
11:53Obviously without
11:55a tool like that is usually you're not
11:58exactly at scale. So you do like very
12:00big estimate and it doesn't really work.
12:03I mean the end it's very far I mean can
12:05be very far from the final result.
12:07I think it's what we do is still like
12:09not the final result and that's always
12:11what we say. It's just like a
12:13preliminary feasibility study to define
12:15and to better estimate the number of of
12:18units, but it really helps. I really see
12:20the difference in the relationship with
12:22our with the partners when you come with
12:24these uh
12:25preliminary plans and when you come
12:27without.
12:28Yeah. And also with a preliminary plan
12:30that is rather accurate. Like okay, not
12:33the final version maybe, but you're not
12:35so far from final result. Do you
12:37remember which tools you would use
12:39before for floor plans?
12:41Uh it's pretty shameful. So I I
12:44I think we were not really using floor
12:47tool or either we would work with
12:49architects or we would ask them to work
12:51with their architects. But when we are
12:52at this very early stage of of a
12:55project, I think already for the other
12:57party to to work on the on the plans
13:00might be a bit early especially when
13:02it's like the first project you're
13:03looking at together and you don't really
13:05know each other. Coming with that is
13:07really a game changer. I think
13:10once we had like something that was
13:11already at scale and we could work on
13:13the
13:14like with the tools of the Microsoft or
13:17things like that, but it was really
13:18really imprecise I would say.
13:20Yeah. Yeah.
13:21So we we're not really using any any
13:23tools or any app for for feasibility
13:26before that. We would externalize it.
13:28Mhm. Got it. So, yeah, that's another
13:31another point we're trying to provide,
13:32right? More autonomous way to work with
13:35real fans, working faster thanks to
13:37that. Um just to make it clear, so who
13:40on your team, you mentioned your startup
13:42and you're small, who on the team is
13:44working with Ryan?
13:45So, it's all the expansion team. So,
13:47there are three of us.
13:48Mhm. Awesome.
13:49And we use it as a we have a company uh
13:51um
13:52organization
13:53Let's call it a workspace.
13:55Yeah.
13:55Workspace. Yeah, organization where we
13:58all work together. So, I can review the
14:00plans actually of uh of of the other
14:02team members. We can when we have a call
14:04and we're not together, we just put Ryan
14:06on the screen. I mean, we both go on our
14:08Ryan uh um
14:09uh on our side and we can really discuss
14:12the plans like we see each other on the
14:13plans. Actually, it's very very well
14:15done for that. And
14:17uh nowadays very often and you work from
14:19home or you're working like remotely,
14:21and I see when you want to review a a
14:22plan, it's really easy and you can work
14:25at the same time in the plans. I would
14:26move that. I would not put it like that.
14:28I think this area we should change and
14:30do like something different. You can
14:32really like show and it's really you are
14:34at the same time in the same plans. So,
14:36for that it's super nice. Very easy to
14:38use also.
14:39Cool.
14:40Like you can use it even if you're not a
14:42from design or architectural background.
14:45Awesome. That's truly amazing to hear. I
14:47want to ask you, are you using the
14:49libraries? Like because you have the
14:52specific hub that's very unique, and
14:55Ryan, you know you can make a block out
14:56of it and then drag and drop it and use
14:58it across different models. Did you
15:00discover that yet?
15:01Yeah, I mean, you use we use it all the
15:03time.
15:04You do.
15:04We have our block now for the hubs and
15:06we just like
15:07copy paste or I don't know how you call
15:09it, but
15:10we just like drop the new block on a new
15:12hub scenario in the plan. They
15:14directly and automatically on scale, so
15:16that for that it's perfect. And you can
15:18really also like orient them like in all
15:20directions. It's super precise. And
15:22also, I mean, we use, like I say,
15:24probably like 10% of the of the capacity
15:26of Freeling, but it already looks so
15:28amazing compared to what we were doing
15:30before.
15:31I mean, at our stage and not being
15:33designers or architects, we don't put
15:35FF&E or things on the on in the plans,
15:39but we can already like really uh design
15:41and we have like different colors for
15:43for different areas. We're not putting
15:45too much. Again, we are very at a
15:47preliminary stage and we don't want to
15:49uh to overdo or that it looks too uh too
15:52too too much in a way, but it's really
15:54perfect and can already calculate all
15:55the things. It's also much faster. We
15:57don't have to wait uh for weeks, you
15:59know, like you send the plans to the
16:00architect, you then you have the you set
16:02up the call to explain like how is the
16:04project. So, usually for a feasibility,
16:06we take like several weeks and it could
16:08be just like uh I mean, you manage your
16:10own priorities, so you can do it
16:12whenever you want, but if you want, it
16:13could be like the same day.
16:15Yeah. I'm so happy that you're, you
16:17know, getting all this value from my
16:19end. I love having these talks with
16:20users and hearing that it's actually
16:22helpful. Um
16:24yeah, really.
16:25So, maybe like before you wrap it up, um
16:29anything else fun you want to tell us
16:30about CityHub? Uh you've already said
16:33that, you know, your expansion goals for
16:35the upcoming year or or two, which is
16:37really cool. Are you going to develop
16:39different types of um
16:41hubs? Uh do you have any, you know,
16:44other dreamy aspirations we should know
16:46of?
16:47Actually, we're looking at a
16:50We think the hubs they're going to
16:51franchise to like to create experience,
16:54but I think actually they are not the I
16:55mean, they are very important, but they
16:57are not and I think the the way I we see
17:00it now is a bit further than that. It's
17:02our expertise, it's not designing the
17:04hubs or using the hubs, but it's a bit
17:06more than that. It's to design small,
17:08but a high-quality and nice experience
17:11spaces. And I think we would not move to
17:14something that is radically different,
17:16like having like these huge suites or or
17:19doing apartments or things like that.
17:21But it maybe to to open a bit more and
17:23to have uh
17:25small rooms or tiny rooms. And like I
17:28say, we're not going to start doing like
17:3025 square meters apartment or
17:32even though that would be maybe a bit
17:34small for an apartment, but it's not our
17:36DNA and it's also not for our target. We
17:38want to remain something that is
17:39affordable, accessible for for for
17:42younger travelers to uh
17:45actually make the city accessible for
17:47for for this younger generation of of
17:50travelers. And for that, we're thinking
17:52also that just as an extension, going to
17:55this small room, but it
17:57would be like a small private room that
17:59is, I don't know, 12 square meters with
18:01a with a bathroom, which is very small
18:03compared to other hotel concepts. For
18:05us, actually, it's quite big, but it's
18:08it kind of makes sense in a way to be
18:10able to diversify like that. Also,
18:12sometimes we have buildings that don't
18:14work for for for for the hubs. We have
18:17to our main constraint is the ceiling
18:18height.
18:20And sometimes we don't have sufficient
18:22ceiling height, but it's still like a
18:23very nice location. It could be a great
18:24building for
18:26a concept like like ours. And I think we
18:28want also to have a bit more flexibility
18:30in
18:31in our development.
18:33Yeah, that's a really good point.
18:35So, I'm realizing through what you just
18:37said, it's not about the hubs as units.
18:39It's more like a means to get to the
18:41bigger idea, which is making traveling
18:44sustainable, affordable.
18:46And like
18:47like it says, you know, on your website,
18:48redefining the the hotel room and the
18:50hotel experience.
18:52So, that makes complete sense.
18:54Yeah, uh
18:55I mean, that's very low cost or very
18:57affordable. Make it very affordable for
19:00everyone is actually something that is
19:01amazing and that we before we were
19:03always focusing on the hubs because it's
19:05super visible. And when you think of
19:07City Hub, you would think of of the
19:09hubs, but I think the experience and
19:11having also these kind of luxury short
19:12spaces is something that is
19:15actually even more important than having
19:16just like the pods.
19:18Right. Right, completely.
19:20Even though the spot the pods are are
19:21working very well and we love them.
19:24I know.
19:25That's so cool. Well, I can't wait to
19:28come stay at City Hub sometime soon. I
19:30want to thank you so much again for for
19:32chatting. This has been really fun, and
19:34I love learning more about your vision
19:36and hearing how, you know, Ryan is
19:38resonating with you.
19:39Um so yeah, so thank you so much,
19:42Marcel.
19:42Thanks a lot. Thanks for the
19:43opportunity, and
19:45hope to
19:46welcome you in Amsterdam or one of the
19:48other hotels.
19:50Thank you so much. Looking forward to
19:51it.
19:52Thanks a lot.
19:53Bye-bye.

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