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NEW Letecia Stauch FBI Interrogation Video | Live Trial Day 12 — Transcript

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0:00anyway
0:02[Music]
0:15s
0:19[Music]
0:47[Music]
0:50what happened
0:52[Music]
1:01thank you
1:02[Music]
1:04hello everyone and welcome back to
1:06another Grizzly True Crime live stream
1:07my name is gizela k I'm South African
1:10living in the Netherlands for those of
1:12you who are new here and it's like what
1:14accent is that
1:15thank you for being here please smash
1:17the like button and share so that other
1:19people know that we are live now waiting
1:21for day 12 of the Leticia Stark trial
1:23this case is about Ganon stock a 11 year
1:27old boy who was murdered going to police
1:29as we know from all the evidence in his
1:31bedroom on January 27 2020.
1:35by his stepmother who is on trial the
1:38reason I say it like that is because
1:41through her attorneys she admitted to
1:44doing it as I say through her attorneys
1:45and so this trial is about proving
1:47whether she was insane at the time of
1:49doing it or not okay so you guys
1:52yesterday I'm sure we all rested our ear
1:55drums I hope you did
1:57because we're gonna need it today what
1:59they're gonna do is play a 29 minute
2:03call
2:04and then a five hour call is what I
2:07heard I don't know if it's a
2:09like a
2:11sorry I'm looking at num's comment I
2:12don't know if it is a video or a call
2:14but I think they said a call so it's
2:15five and a half hours worth of Latisha
2:17audio we're gonna hear today so I hope
2:19your eardrums are rested and that you
2:20all
2:21you know coffee dab or whatever you
2:23drink you got energy for this because
2:24we're gonna need it
2:26Norms is disappointed you don't actually
2:28have war paint on G
2:31I'd said on patreon oh we're ready okay
2:34are we ready I'm painting I'm putting
2:36the war paint on and we are going in
2:38okay so let me
2:40share the screen with you so that you
2:42can see that we're waiting for court
2:43it's starting in the next eight minutes
2:45or so
2:46I'm just doing a mic check as well
2:48because I find that when I share this
2:50screen
2:52then sometimes the mic goes scratchy I
2:55have no idea why it does that
2:57Texas state of mind says trial bubbles
2:59absolutely absolutely Kate says thank
3:03you for all your work gee much respect
3:04thank you so much and yes I'm wearing my
3:06necklace with a blue crystal heart for
3:08Ganon I made some new emojis as well and
3:11they say gannon's Army there's one
3:14um with of Ganon with Sonic that van
3:16made for us and there's a few you'll see
3:20there's one called objection trial
3:22bubbles trial time Liar Liar Liar
3:25and there's no way in hell I'm gonna
3:27make one that says yada yada yada sorry
3:29but no that filth is not going to be on
3:32my channel we already have to hear
3:34enough of it okay
3:36um Tiffany thank you so so much um I
3:39really appreciate your 199 super sticker
3:41to everyone that becomes members today
3:43please check out the members only
3:44playlist because we had a very snarky
3:46time we were venting the other night
3:49um not last night the night before so
3:51check out the members only playlist
3:52there's lots of content for you to catch
3:54up on there and thank you and welcome to
3:56all patrons members moderators every
3:59subscriber all new if you're only here
4:01and you're lurking welcome as well I
4:03hope you will subscribe today
4:04okay any questions before the court day
4:08begins uh welcome to membership Christy
4:13okay oh no
4:14sorry I'm seeing the yada yada
4:17it says angels
4:21no no no no we can't start with that
4:23already we have to endure five and a
4:25half hours of this I've got my notebook
4:26ready as well
4:28we're gonna break it all down okay
4:31oh my word you heard someone at the
4:33store say yada at the store at the store
4:35yada yada
4:37you must have given them quite a dirty
4:38look right uh wisdom speaks is Gannon
4:41endured for years so we can do this for
4:43him I agree I agree we are here for
4:45Gannon absolutely for Gannon for his
4:47family
4:49um sending them lots of love and support
4:51this must be so incredibly difficult
4:52because you it's re-traumatizing it's
4:54already a very traumatizing situation of
4:56course they want to see justice but to
4:58go through it all again to hear all
5:00these things I mean I think L is being
5:02amazing he's just sitting there
5:05strong in the back there you know
5:06Landon's also in court on most of the
5:08days as well so his L as I say and
5:10Harley was great so I just the things
5:13they have to endure with this person
5:15I've never heard of someone lie as much
5:18as Latisha never it she makes your head
5:21spin it's too much
5:23uh Albert thank you so so much for your
5:26super sticker
5:28okay Amy says you love the snarky here
5:30and there we need to have that right we
5:31need to have that
5:33welcome Dawn
5:35Heidi says I bet TT says long story yeah
5:38long story long oh my word she probably
5:40does we might hear some new things today
5:42yada yada yada whatever whatever yeah
5:44all of that okay so it should be
5:46starting in five minutes or so what I
5:48was doing uh yesterday last night
5:51until the early hours of the morning was
5:53just re-analyzing that uh surveillance
5:56footage because there's a couple of
5:57channels that I see from three years ago
5:59that really brightened it up but I
6:01didn't I didn't really see anything that
6:03I could report back on I was just like
6:04wait what someone in the comments said
6:06it looked like Leticia was carrying him
6:08so I was trying to see that but it's
6:09really difficult because the neighbor
6:11filmed it on his phone he used his phone
6:13to film the TV so we're getting like
6:15layers over layers over layers you know
6:17it's not it's not that clear to us and I
6:19would
6:20think of course the police have a very
6:23crisp copy and they know which is what
6:25they base they probably cause
6:26affidaviton
6:27in the 1997 thank you so much for your
6:30super sticker thank you for your hard
6:31work and staying up with us right yes
6:34for me it's uh 5 p.m almost four minutes
6:36to go so this trial for me starts at 5
6:39pm and ends at one in the morning
6:41so we're we're in it together here
6:44okay
6:46um Java junkie it's through email yes
6:48here we go guys people versus Leticia
6:50stock records should reflect the jury is
6:52not present in the courtroom is there
6:53anything we need to take up outside the
6:56presence of the jury not from those
6:57people
6:59do we have everybody
7:02okay there's a t-shirt I didn't check
7:04yes I'm gonna zoom in for you in a
7:06moment all right all right then let's go
7:07ahead and bring the jury in
7:10after a few short questions we'll be
7:13playing another phone call from here
7:14judge so make sure the uh is connected
7:17through Podium okay
7:21turn the TV on too so
7:25go to mix them up because
7:29one I know that's why I
7:31um
7:35right and that's yeah
7:38can you hear the court can you guys hear
7:40the court so
7:45oh brace outside look he's drinking
7:47water he's hydrating the prosecutor he's
7:48like oh man we're gonna need this
7:50hydration
7:55day what and I don't know any of these
7:57people
8:03All rights for the jury please
8:06okay
8:07Leticia come on come on
8:15okay
8:18do you hear me so far everything's good
8:21happy Friday everyone happy Friday to
8:22you thank you for choosing to spend your
8:24time here with us really appreciate it
8:35thank you you may all be seated Court
8:37will recall 20 cr1358 people versus
8:39Leticia stock record should reflect the
8:41jury has returned to the courtroom
8:43um good morning ladies and gentlemen
8:45good morning taking a minute minute here
8:47to make sure I have all of the right
8:48people because I understand that there
8:50were two jurors two juries that sort of
8:52came in at the same time and uh wanted
8:54to make sure everybody made it to the
8:55right place
8:57um all right
8:59uh again I'm going to ask you the same
9:02question that I've asked you every day
9:03uh previously has anything occurred
9:06since we were last together that causes
9:08any of you to believe you could not
9:09continue to serve as a fair and
9:11impartial juror in this case if so
9:13please raise your hand
9:16no response all right with that when we
9:18took our break we were in the midst of
9:20uh some
9:22um
9:23telephone calls I believe it was
9:26um and Mr Allen how do you wish to
9:28proceed at this point so we were in the
9:30middle of uh so the record very clear uh
9:34you live at 57. 57 we finished actually
9:36I think 58 we finished judge and we had
9:39also at the same time
9:41um former special agent John grusing on
9:43the stand yes he's here so we would just
9:45ask him to retake the stand okay Mr
9:47grusing if you would uh retake your seat
9:49in the witness stand I remind you sir
9:51that you're still under oath
9:54thank you
10:00good morning Mr grissing good morning so
10:03we've uh had an opportunity to listen to
10:06All of the phone calls we've got still
10:09one more to go
10:10how in your experience
10:13um as you're working this particular
10:14case are you using the information
10:16you're Gathering from these phone calls
10:18to develop what you talked about on
10:21Wednesday this pattern of behavior for
10:23this particular defendant to inform you
10:26of your how you're going to interview
10:27her eventually
10:29yes we were working as a team and
10:32talking with Al after each call
10:35to determine exactly what happened on
10:38that call and then before we would make
10:40contact with Leticia the next day we
10:43would compare what we learned that day
10:45to previous days to see maybe what our
10:48new strategy would be did the strategy
10:51change like you're describing from phone
10:53call to phone call or from day to day
10:55sometimes yes and even in the middle of
10:57a phone call it might change depending
10:58upon her answers I noticed in the
11:02um I think it was the last phone call
11:03there was a change where you start using
11:06the word or aldaz at your direction I
11:08think start using the word murder as
11:10opposed to accident that's correct why
11:13did that change happen
11:15it seemed to us that Leticia was not
11:18accepting that this was an accident even
11:19though we kept on posing that through Al
11:22and since she was rejecting that
11:26we encouraged Al to see if she would
11:28what she would react to If we said well
11:31possibly this was a murder and possibly
11:32you were responsible
11:34in um in that last call also uh people's
11:38exhibit 50
11:398
11:41um
11:42I want to ask you about uh third person
11:45um in your life experience have you
11:46encountered people that have referred to
11:48themselves in a third person
11:50at times yes would that be both
11:53professionally and in just regular
11:55everyday life yes most of it was outside
11:57of the FBI actually
11:59um is that can that be a Hallmark of
12:02somebody that's self-absorbed it can be
12:04yes okay did you find
12:06um Leticia Stout during these phone
12:10calls and even during your interview
12:12with her that we're going to get to
12:13later this morning uh to also be
12:16self-absorbed
12:18yes almost every call was centered
12:21around her and how she was feeling
12:23instead of us trying to get her to focus
12:26on Gannon okay
12:29as it relates to those last two phone
12:31calls 57 and 58 that we listened to on
12:34Wednesday afternoon was there any other
12:38um
12:38important information in those phone
12:40calls that you used to develop that
12:42pattern of behavior in your mind going
12:45forward and obviously this is a very
12:47open-ended question but I want to make
12:48sure that you have the opportunity to
12:50explain those issues
12:53when I'll post to her about possible
12:56injuries to Gannon when he was talking
12:58with her about Murder She removes Gannon
13:01from the conversation and said you're
13:04saying words like did I murder someone
13:06and did I hit anyone over the head with
13:08a board
13:09and she basically took Gannon out of the
13:13injuries that Al was accusing her of
13:15doing
13:17um we were we were trained to look for
13:19gaps in in a story like hours missing in
13:23a day as well as illogical use of
13:26pronouns and that jumped out at me
13:29why does that jump out at you
13:31because it was very personal but they
13:33were discussing of Gannon and then
13:36when she's describing the possible that
13:40she would be responsible for hitting him
13:41in the head with the board or possibly
13:43murdering him
13:44she takes Ganon out of the conversation
13:46okay so basically
13:50de-personifying Ganon correct okay
13:54uh this next phone call is the last one
13:57that we've admitted it's uh people's
13:59exhibit 59
14:00it comes from uh February 21st 1 44 p.m
14:05it's 29 minutes long
14:07um
14:09at this point judge I'd like to go ahead
14:10and publish that it was previously
14:12admitted uh during Mr Stout's testimony
14:14and then when this particular phone call
14:16is done we'll bring Mr gruesome back up
14:20okay
14:30hello
14:31okay
14:33so hey you said there was an emergency
14:36that you need to talk about
14:42[Music]
14:43stopping searching and I said are you
14:45ready to like work together with me yes
14:47I sent that to you okay so what is it
14:51what do you mean what is it I'm telling
14:53you
14:55oh my God I don't know how to clear to
14:57say this do you believe me now that I
14:59didn't do anything
15:01wrong
15:07I I mean I'm just trying to get you you
15:10made it seem like there was some urgent
15:11news that you had to tell me and this is
15:14asking you the link you were talking
15:16about with the landfill that was old oh
15:18so there wasn't really anything urgent
15:20impressing that would help me find
15:22Gannon
15:26you're with your wife to do it yeah I'm
15:28telling you I'm going off your list
15:30number one Ganon so let's let's focus on
15:32that
15:34Okay so
15:36[Music]
15:38airports and all this I don't know you
15:42can't have a straight go in common I
15:44don't know I
15:46I don't care about social media never
15:48have who cares what people are saying I
15:51rode I rode with my mom to the airport
15:55okay where are you where am I I told you
15:58I just stepped out of work on lunch
15:59break
16:02no as in the headquarters
16:15I'm not making any promises
16:18it's not like now
16:21now well you're not even here if you're
16:22telling me starting tomorrow
16:24look at the door I can't fly the dogs
16:27well how did the dogs get to where
16:29you're at if they couldn't fly
16:36airplanes what friends
16:48the dogs cannot get on an airplane
16:52okay fair enough but I wanna I wanna get
16:54back to Gannon
16:56tell me you're gonna work together with
16:58me that's not afraid
17:00be together so we can work on everything
17:03figure this out get a plan in place but
17:05why why why is why is the safety of a
17:09child contingent upon anything other
17:10than finding him
17:12help you if we're not together yes you
17:15can
17:16I can't do any of that together
17:19to talk
17:22the 10 freaking times and work through
17:24it
17:25I beg for this
17:29but I still I still don't understand how
17:33you helping me with Gannon is contingent
17:35upon anything else contingent I am your
17:39wife did you file for divorce
17:44did you I didn't hear what you said what
17:46did you file for divorce I told you that
17:48already no do you want me to
17:50no I
17:52are cheating on me
17:54am I cheating on you know listen we need
17:55to focus on Gannon okay you you told me
17:59you had
18:00a big plan no it's not yeah it is you're
18:03right it's a big plan to find my son
18:04absolutely okay so listen to me you made
18:08this like you always do in these
18:09scenarios you made it seem like we could
18:11fix this immediately you got some big
18:13piece of information listen
18:16listen to me and be open-minded
18:19in order
18:25you taking my side in order for it to
18:29even be
18:30working because if you go against me you
18:32[ __ ] me you be whatever you try to do
18:34whatever all these things
18:37we can't get to what you need okay so uh
18:40that but that's what I wanted you to say
18:42because you just told me that finding
18:44again is contingent upon what you you're
18:46getting what you want you
18:49yeah you said if you do if I had to Buck
18:51you or don't be with you and don't sleep
18:53with you
18:54yeah
18:55that's what you said in essence is that
18:57if I don't give you what you want we
18:58don't find Gannon so listen
19:00but hold on hold on listen I'm going
19:03back in now I thought you had some
19:04emergency
19:06everyone
19:07okay
19:15if listen if you tell me information I
19:18need to know I'll get it like who took
19:19Gannon or what happened to Gannon then
19:22we we talk about this other this other
19:24seven parts of your list okay but number
19:27number one is again nothing happens if
19:29for anybody in the rest of my life
19:31period until I get information about
19:33Gannon or find him
19:36I thought you didn't have a car sounds
19:38like a car to me
19:45all right go ahead I'm sorry I'm sorry
19:46go ahead
19:51I need you to tell me that you have
19:53confidence and believe me okay
19:57number one on the list is Ganon so
20:00okay I believe in you and have
20:02confidence in you that you'll tell me
20:03the truth
20:08so all right
20:11number one find again
20:13all right so why calm there hasn't been
20:16any kind of life
20:20locations searches anything outside
20:25of only what I went
20:28okay
20:29the most concerning thing to you
20:32is that the first things that has to be
20:35done
20:36tell me why that's not happening that's
20:38a question we need to ask law
20:40enforcement not me
20:42but that's not something that you have
20:44even thought of to ask because I mean
20:46you called me to ask about this landfill
20:48That was supposed to Consumers messing
20:50around with your hands but this
20:54is
20:55in this several times I'm sure yes I've
20:58asked them this why are you searching
21:00there well you know we can't tell you
21:02anything
21:05okay next question
21:18pictures upon Acres upon Acres when I
21:20didn't even go to those Acres
21:23telling you
21:28how do we find it it's none of those
21:31things
21:32he was in one of the places that I went
21:36does that not make you open up your eyes
21:39and say that I'm not involved someone
21:41else's yeah you're absolutely right I
21:45like back to your first question I
21:48believe in you okay but I believe you
21:50know that someone else involved you know
21:51who that's what I want
21:53okay
21:55so but but didn't but see then you keep
21:58sending me messages emergency we can fix
22:00this right now but then you'd never tell
22:02me anything
22:14why didn't they why did they not look
22:17into it why did they not believe it why
22:19what information about about Quincy
22:22Brown
22:24are you talking about Christy Brown what
22:25information are you talking about
22:30no I did not what information okay you
22:34just said they don't tell you anything
22:35right
22:37okay yeah exactly
22:40which means they wouldn't
22:42okay so what information was it
22:49covered
22:51except only the areas that I drove okay
22:55but what information are you talking
22:56about why won't you give me that
22:57information and I'm the father of the
22:59missing child teacher but I've already
23:01told you one time
23:04well tell me again tell me right now I'm
23:06I'm in believe teaching mode
23:09okay how long do you have
23:12like five to seven minutes honestly I
23:14gotta get back here well what do you
23:16need tell me what you need an hour ten
23:18minutes
23:20are you on lunch I'm not trying to slip
23:23away no I'm working like I'm working
23:24like four hour days so I mean I come out
23:27because I told you I'd come out around
23:29this time okay but I I got another hour
23:32or some work and then I'm leaving for
23:34the day
23:37because they're just trying like I told
23:38you this morning they're trying to phase
23:39me back in so I don't want to be out
23:42here for 20 30 minutes
23:54right now
23:56so you got 30 minutes to give me right
23:58now listen I'll make up some [ __ ]
24:00when I go back in there but yeah I got
24:01I'll give you 30 minutes right now
24:04walk me through it
24:13I need you to answer this question
24:16why
24:18how many of the videos so you can all
24:20make sense you have you saw other than
24:22one video
24:24listen this is not Albert answers a
24:26bunch of questions you told me no
24:29no you tell me what I'm missing or
24:31haven't seen that that's what this is
24:33about this is not you have your
24:38one pulling into our
24:43have I seen a video have I seen any
24:46video of that I'm not sitting here
24:47answering questions okay I haven't seen
24:49other than what's been released I
24:50haven't seen what's other than been
24:52released to the public I'm not sitting
24:53here getting questioned you said you had
24:56a story to tell me about this
24:58okay okay
25:01okay well help me yo
25:03okay I'm listening
25:06did you see any of the videos I'm
25:09listening I'm not being questioned okay
25:11tell me what I'm missing in the video
25:13just tell me don't ask me tell me in the
25:16video when Harley comes home Elena I'm
25:19sure you had to see this just tell me
25:22where Harley parked her car
25:24I have no clue Tisha tell me what you're
25:27trying to tell me now you get me upset
25:28you haven't seen this no I have not seen
25:31anything I told you that I've seen what
25:33is on the internet on the video about
25:35the truck
25:36that's it
25:39so can you wait by your phone for five
25:42minutes
25:43you said you said 30 minutes and just if
25:46you have something
25:47but I need you to wait by your phone for
25:49five minutes because I have this girl's
25:52keys in here yeah what
25:54her kids are in her car I drove to get
25:58some food I have her kids in here so I
26:00just need five minutes to pull up in the
26:02yard for the kids to get out
26:06what but what what does that keep you
26:08from sending a video
26:10I don't want to talk about it with kids
26:12around
26:16five minutes just give me five minutes
26:19let me pull in the yard and make it out
26:24just tell me what you got to tell me
26:26there's no kids in the car I don't hear
26:27a peep okay can you there is a cute in
26:30the car
26:32that's I'm going listen I knew either
26:36you tell me now or I'm just gonna put
26:38the phone down and go back into work
26:39okay because I don't got time to sit
26:40here you jerk me around I'm tired of you
26:42jerking me around nearly almost to the
26:45streets listen I don't have five minutes
26:47I got the 30 minutes you asked for I got
26:49that you start telling me whatever it is
26:51you got to tell me who cares if a kid's
26:53in the car
26:54if I mean that that should be a good
26:56thing that you know information that can
26:58help you find the missing kid I'm sure
26:59they've heard about it
27:04I don't know if they did
27:07well I'm turning on her story hold on
27:10yeah okay
27:11I swear to you I'm literally I I'm not
27:14questioning you I'm in believe teaching
27:16mode I'm just waiting for some facts
27:18that I can believe turning on her street
27:21okay I believe you
27:23I'm at church right now what church
27:25and then I'm going on to this
27:30all right return church I guess there's
27:34oh you pass by but there's no sign okay
27:36cool
27:38looking at the
27:44I believe you I'm not trying to question
27:46you I'm just it was I just want to know
27:48if I knew the Church of the past or
27:50anything sorry I'm I'm literally turning
27:52in
27:54right now
27:59All I'm gonna do is pull over here
28:03can you go inside with your mom and then
28:05I'll just
28:07yeah and I'll be in in a minute to let
28:09it out
28:16all right give me one minute
28:21so yeah okay
28:28you there
28:30Keisha
28:45yep I'm here
28:53and then um
28:55I'll get the dogs and I get back
28:59no
29:01it's another weekend
29:14literally
29:16remember she's getting out
29:23actually because
29:24um
29:25stuff for your mom all right
29:27where did you put mine at right there
29:28okay
29:30thank you
29:33see a little bit
29:37sorry her daughter is like old age
29:42um
29:43anyway all right
29:46the model that was telling you is I need
29:49you to believe Albert
29:51I need you to believe that someone did
29:54take in
29:56I need you to believe that I've already
29:58given the police department the
29:59description I've already did that
30:03I need you to quit thinking that it's
30:06somebody just made up because it's not
30:09obviously I didn't do it there's no way
30:13possible that I could have been hours
30:15and hours away in a certain window
30:19I need you to help them re-look at that
30:25I'm telling you
30:27Hannah would have left our neighborhood
30:31anywhere between that time frame and it
30:34wouldn't even be surprised if it weren't
30:36like the kid in North Carolina what
30:37certain window are you talking about
30:40the certain one I'm talking about
30:41between three
30:43and anywhere that evening because here's
30:46why there's a lot of people out and
30:48about in the neighborhood
30:50everywhere so you weren't home during
30:52that certain window is that what you
30:53said
30:54do what you said you weren't home during
30:56that certain window or he could have
30:57left in that certain window
31:06still could have been in the
31:07neighborhood but you said when it
31:09happened what is it Tisha
31:12hold you already
31:18see we went out the front door when we
31:20left
31:21we went out the front door okay let me
31:24look I set the alarm I went out the
31:26front door I came back in the front door
31:29made sure the alarm was set went out the
31:32garage
31:34you can see that on the ring
31:37when I came out I think it was like
31:381007.
31:401008-ish Maybe
31:42we left out we were in the garage okay
31:46there was no more at that time there was
31:50no more
31:52um anybody going in and out and the dogs
31:55do not set off the motion in the house
31:57right they don't okay
32:00not not when they're in their crates
32:02you're right
32:09I was roaming around doing their thing
32:10they're following somebody that they
32:12looked okay
32:14when we came back
32:17I told you 15 000 times about the car
32:20following us at Petco
32:22the reason I left the car the phone at
32:24Petco you wanna know why why don't y'all
32:27go check the alarm on it I set an alarm
32:29for it to go off if I hadn't came back
32:32in the time frame
32:36to call the police
32:41I set the alarm on there Albert there
32:43was no intention I had my watch on so it
32:46was no hiding where I was going or
32:49whatever
32:50but wait wait so you said alarm to call
32:53the police why no no
32:56because someone was following us from
32:59the house or from Petco
33:01okay
33:10Daniel was laying down he was playing
33:12the switch so I knew that they knew
33:14nobody was in the car that's what they
33:16thought maybe I was being over
33:18suspicious well so so help me out here
33:22because I'm in believe teacher mode so
33:24okay just so you know that but
33:26somebody's following you from the house
33:29and you leave Gannon in the truck
33:32they never knew anybody was in trucks
33:35but if they followed you from the house
33:37didn't they see y'all get into the truck
33:38I was
33:43okay all right help me be in believe
33:45teaching mode okay all right don't start
33:47spinning just tell me okay all right I'm
33:51trying to
33:52me go through the whole entire thing
33:53okay I'll go ahead go ahead
33:56okay
33:57so I get there I was playing
34:00period part
34:04periods okay so I'm holding the thing
34:07and I said then I said alarm just for
34:09the alarm to go off
34:11I mean like yeah whatever whatever that
34:13was for the alarm to go off
34:16maybe I was being too super super
34:18suspicious I just was being whatever who
34:21I don't know sorry
34:25and now you're
34:27you're young um listen this is I don't
34:29sleep good at night I haven't for years
34:31you know that so go ahead
34:40oppose the like
34:41the liver papers
34:47delivered so I couldn't do it Albert
34:49deliver papers for what
35:02Tisha
35:07when I went Nevada
35:09there was this pregnant lady
35:13so I agreed
35:14to help the argument lady because she
35:16was really really pregnant
35:20she gets in she gets in the car
35:22which is why Gana was not in the front
35:24seat
35:25it was in the back seat you said wait
35:27wait you said when you went to Nevada
35:29I went through Nevada I'm like what
35:32you're in Nevada anyways go ahead
35:34right
35:36when I realized he's not pregnant
35:42once she gives me a car
35:49was this the same lady that was
35:51following you
35:53I don't know if they were following us I
35:55just know there was a car following us
35:58when I get off I turned where Harley
36:00gets little eyelashes done because I
36:02thought I would lose them
36:04then I saw a pregnant lady she looked
36:07legit like eight months pregnant
36:09what kind of car was following you
36:12because maybe he told you this 15 times
36:14okay
36:15it was a blue something like a blue
36:19little car like a Cooper or something
36:20like this okay so like a blue not red
36:23right just a blue one
36:28nothing it's already been checked out
36:29okay all right season I know that one's
36:32been checked out
36:34because I have somebody in lorson ranch
36:36to it
36:38all right uh just making sure I make
36:39sure I keep these cars straight so
36:41there's the blue one not the red one
36:44no don't get upset don't get upset I'm
36:49just trying to get it straight I'm not
36:50picking holes in your story I'm just
36:52making sure with on the on the blue car
36:54okay so now back to the pregnant lady
36:56that gets in the front seat
37:00so the president
37:06Lee needs a ride
37:09I felt bad
37:11she looked really really pregnant like
37:13long like eight months
37:18I said hmm I'm just
37:20listening
37:22you know what I'm not
37:26listening to him believe me really came
37:29in this and be honest with you okay and
37:31I'm just listening no you are you're
37:34being a dick
37:37that's being a dick to me
37:40I don't know why you're saying that but
37:41does a pregnant lady know what happened
37:43to G
37:45does she know where Guinea went can I
37:47finish yeah absolutely she wasn't really
37:51pregnant she had about I don't even know
37:54how much money inside of this thing that
37:57makes her look pregnant
38:04so you know where my mind immediately
38:05goes where
38:08what would you think a pregnant person
38:10disguised and that's pregnant put money
38:13in her belly means she probably robbed a
38:15bank
38:16okay she might have
38:19or I am she could be involved in
38:21something crazy right yeah I would I
38:25would be scared of myself even if it was
38:27a woman
38:28yeah because that's pretty scary right
38:30you're making fun of this like no I'm
38:32not if somebody got in my truck with a
38:34pregnant belly full of cash I'd be
38:36worried to death you're right
38:58I don't know
39:03I don't know how else the help other
39:06than to know we were in the wrong place
39:07at the wrong time okay are you talking
39:09about Petco
39:12yes because Petco
39:16I just was supposed to walk in Petco
39:19look around be normal
39:24go drop this lady off somewhere oh so
39:27she told you to walk into Petco yes
39:30she forced me of course I got you okay
39:36does she have a weapon like a gun or a
39:37knife or something that like to threaten
39:39you or what
39:41how do you think someone would force you
39:44no you're a tough girl so I'm just gonna
39:47take a lot that's what I'm trying to say
39:48you're I mean
39:50yeah yeah I don't think you'd be scared
39:53Easy by somebody like that
39:55so
39:56that's just what I'm saying you probably
39:57start swinging unless you had a gun or a
39:59knife or something
40:01that's a joke to you no I'm serious I'm
40:03trying to I'm trying to finally like
40:07legit and you're I mean
40:11I mean I'm sorry you think that but go
40:13ahead
40:14I'm not forget it man
40:16you're not wanting to stand by massage
40:18you don't want to help I'm right here
40:19standing by your side listening to the
40:21truth okay I'm in believe teaching mode
40:23like I told you yeah then
40:26you're gonna do tell me I'm telling a
40:27lie hang up
40:29are you telling a lie no that's what
40:31you're gonna do you're not gonna believe
40:33it I told you it was beyond your wildest
40:35imagination to know
40:40he was in the wrong place or y'all were
40:42in the wrong place okay we was in the
40:45wrong place okay all right
40:57I mean are you
41:00are you telling me this I don't know you
41:03want me to believe you but I feel like
41:04you're just telling me something to make
41:06me feel better about getting missing
41:07okay
41:08so
41:11because it was kind of like the Quincy
41:13Brown thing I mean
41:15I mean
41:16now it's a pregnant lady with cash in
41:18her belly okay I believe you what's that
41:19what happened next
41:23no I'm trying to I'm trying to make
41:25sense of all of it okay you want me to
41:28believe you I'm giving you the benefit
41:29of Doubt tell me the rest of the story
41:33Albert to sum it up
41:35being called up in a rough place at the
41:37wrong time with people
41:39who are money laundering wanting me to
41:42want me or whoever they can get to
41:44deliver a paper to these Mexican
41:47restaurants and you're supposed to get
41:49packages back from them and I wouldn't
41:52do it
41:53so that's why we were on County Line
41:55Road because I was scared of this
41:57real I left
42:04so I was going round and round and round
42:06to make sure there's no Park All of Me
42:11so is that where they were trying to
42:12send you or you just went there because
42:14you knew that you knew that was out in
42:15the boonies
42:18no because 25 I got an interstate 25 and
42:21it was backed up oh so you did like we
42:23did that one time and took a detour
42:26nothing to do with
42:28already searched the entire area I'm
42:31innocent
42:46that's who has to be in it okay the
42:48pregnant lady with the cash no at
42:52that party given to the Mexican guy why
42:55do you think I told you that about the
42:56Quincy thing because the whole Mexico we
42:59need to be looking at any routes going
43:01into Mexico and I've been telling you
43:03this no but you took no okay all right
43:06I'm out of believe Tisha mode now okay
43:08because you told me Quincy Brown was in
43:11Colorado Springs his family told your
43:13news reporter that he's in Mexico okay
43:15you didn't know that beforehand
43:21and of course you have nothing to say
43:22about that I'll talk to you later
43:32if you would uh I assume that's who you
43:34want yes Mr gruesing if you would resume
43:36your seat in the witness stand and
43:37remind you sir that you're still under
43:38oath
43:40thank you
43:43for Allen thank you
43:45Mr grusing um
43:49we talked about uh just prior to you
43:52uh us actually listening to that last
43:55phone call about uh Leticia being very
43:57focused on herself as opposed to finding
43:59Ganon
44:00did there seem to be a focus on uh from
44:03her standpoint on making sure she was
44:06going to stay without
44:07yes
44:09what's the significance of that in your
44:11mind as an investigator
44:14she wanted uh finding gandon to be
44:16contingent upon Al coming back into the
44:19marriage with her
44:21was it fairly consistent that she would
44:23precondition giving information on
44:27at Mr stouk uh promising to stay with
44:30her yes
44:32did that help with your billing pattern
44:34of behavior on preparing for her
44:37interview it did
44:39does that also give her a way to
44:41calculate the flow of information that
44:44law enforcement got
44:45she was yes in what way
44:50well and Al was doing a good job of
44:53deflecting questions she was probing for
44:55what he knew what he had seen and as
44:59I'll end our team knew from now whatever
45:01facts we would give her would shift her
45:04story to meet those
45:05along those lines was it clear based on
45:08these phone calls that she was very
45:10closely following the advancement of the
45:13investigation yes and would she appear
45:16to from your perspective use the
45:19information that she would get from
45:20following the investigation and then
45:22explain away things that might be found
45:25in different areas
45:27she would and because it was only her
45:30and Gannon together it's only her story
45:32that mattered
45:33uh
45:35did that appear to be an effort to
45:37manipulate the investigation yes
45:41is that a calculated move on her part it
45:44was
45:53there was that one section in that last
45:55phone call where
45:56um she is expressing concern with areas
45:59of searches is that showing that
46:01indication that she's following the
46:02investigation from afar yes you're right
46:05uh was she still at this particular
46:07Point
46:08um trying to imply that she was in the
46:10Colorado Springs area yes
46:13um did you know specifically where she
46:14was at this particular time yes we knew
46:16she was in South Carolina
46:22okay
46:26talking about her efforts to manipulate
46:28manipulate the investigation
46:31um did she Point uh throughout all these
46:34phone calls at random
46:36um unknown persons
46:40yeah it's hard to say random uh it
46:42seemed to be somewhat calculated
46:44random from your perspective as an
46:46investigator calculated from her's
46:48perspective is that what you're
46:49suggestions okay so we have uh Eduardo
46:52right
46:53right uh the information that she gave
46:56about identifying Eduardo so any
46:59identifying features do you remember
47:01that right now
47:02I don't okay if it was basically a five
47:07eight uh thinner Hispanic male with
47:10pockmark face
47:12um
47:13is that a very detailed or not very
47:15detailed description of somebody
47:17not if you have extensive interaction
47:19with him what she told us in her story
47:22that she did that was prior to me coming
47:23on so I was reviewing that information
47:25okay and then changing it later to say
47:28well maybe he was actually a black guy
47:30like a Puerto Rican correct
47:33um and then developing into Quincy Brown
47:37I believe next she went to Uncle Matt's
47:39I was going to get to Uncle Matt here in
47:41just a second
47:43um do you remember as it develops into
47:44the Quincy Brown story I do did that
47:47coincide with the same time that uh Most
47:50Wanted uh release was issued for Quincy
47:53Brown in Colorado Springs media yes
47:58and then you mentioned Uncle Matt did
48:00she get any identifying features for an
48:03Uncle Matt
48:04she did not she laid uh
48:06the blame for Uncle Matt at Gannon
48:09saying this was a Gannon had been
48:11talking about Uncle Matt prior to
48:12gannon's disappearance and then Gannon
48:14was jumping on Uncle Matt and then Ganon
48:16disappeared because of Uncle Matt
48:23there's that one portion of uh time
48:25where
48:27um
48:29she's at least relaying the idea that
48:31she's driving in the car with some other
48:33kid
48:35in this last phone call that we just
48:36listened to Yes um could you hear any
48:38noises um from that side of the phone
48:40call
48:41um that indicated a kid was in the car
48:43we could not did you hear any doors open
48:45or closed like she was indicating she
48:47just dropped a kid off no
48:50there's also referenced by her about
48:53um driving past a church you remember
48:55that portion yes and Al actually presses
48:57her and says uh what's the name of the
48:59church correct
49:01um I didn't hear did she give a name of
49:03that church couldn't hear her give a
49:05name at least I didn't
49:11there was a
49:13an interesting quote that she made in
49:15that particular call and it was I need I
49:18need you to believe someone took Gannon
49:21what's the significance of of that type
49:23of a statement from the defendant
49:28well she was again the last one with him
49:31and she's now tried four or five
49:35someones and now she's not even she's
49:37not giving us an identification of this
49:40pregnant lady we were not scripting Al
49:43to yawn or do those things during this
49:46one but it was obvious that this was not
49:49going to lead us anywhere closer to
49:51Gannon so with her not giving us a name
49:54or anything to follow up on uh we were
49:57fine without just being
50:00reacting naturally to this new story
50:02okay the leading up to the the pregnant
50:06lady with uh some sort of a money
50:08pregnancy thing
50:11um was there any indication that
50:13somebody followed her from the home area
50:16Larson Ranch to Petco there was not were
50:19you aware that she actually made two uh
50:21Petco visits on January 27th that were
50:23basically two hours apart on that day
50:25yes
50:27was there any indication uh through the
50:29investigation that someone was forcing
50:31her to go into Petco there was not
50:35as it relates to this pregnant lady with
50:38the money thing
50:39um did she ever give any
50:41detailed information about a description
50:43of this pregnant lady with money coming
50:45out of her belly no
50:52she mentioned money laundering and
50:54Mexican restaurants uh
50:59curious your thoughts on that angle of
51:01it that there's a description of Eduardo
51:04being a slim Hispanic guy then she
51:06changes it to a black guy or a Mexican
51:08guy and now we're back to Mexican money
51:10laundering uh plans thoughts on that
51:13from your perspective as an investigator
51:15she goes back and forth whether it's
51:18someone involved in the criminal element
51:20must be responsible for someone like
51:22this or Gannon is responsible for
51:25through accidents
51:27so she's she's describing criminal
51:29Behavior to most of these people that
51:31would have inflicted injuries on him or
51:33taken him okay and
51:35um as it relates to blaming others uh
51:39does she consistently almost try to
51:42shift blame onto Gannon she does in what
51:45ways
51:47it's accidental uh well it she did it at
51:51the very first by saying he just left
51:53ran away but then
51:57throughout she will say that he was
51:58involved in an accident where he stepped
52:01on something or he hit his head or he
52:03busted his lip those sorts of injuries
52:06that he's causing to himself
52:08as it relates to those descriptions of
52:10various injuries
52:11does that also include the bleeding from
52:13the rectum yes okay
52:16um in in those descriptions it was she
52:19also giving information that only uh
52:22somebody with knowledge of those
52:23injuries would have the actual injuries
52:25that Gannon suffered correct
52:28was that significant to you at all
52:30it was and I believe it was on the 13th
52:35the very first phone call we had uh it's
52:37the first time that she mentioned Quincy
52:40brown or the most egregious injuries she
52:43ascribed to him and that was the
52:46bleeding from the head the hands and the
52:48knees and the blood pouring from his
52:51face
52:52so she was describing you know things
52:55and as we were going we were trying to
52:57have how can we use that to help find
53:00Gannon
53:01but then she would shift later and say
53:04you know whether it was the burns or the
53:07face that those injuries were not as
53:08significant so we were just back and
53:10forth but throughout if you look at the
53:13the whole picture of these 10 12 calls
53:15she was describing a significant amount
53:18of injuries to him
53:25oh
53:29as as we listened to all of these calls
53:32and and I think we've actually admitted
53:3316 separate phone calls into evidence in
53:36this case uh were there actually even
53:38more than that that were conducted
53:40um that were not admitted in this trial
53:42yes I believe so
53:44um how did you use the information that
53:46you gathered in those particular phone
53:48calls that you participated in how are
53:51you using that to build the pattern of
53:53behavior for this specific defendant
53:56well our primary goal was to find Ganon
53:58at this point in the investigation and
54:01we were information was coming in Daily
54:05we had a whole timeline across the
54:09the break conference room that we would
54:12add new data to each day
54:14so even with the story about the the
54:17pregnant lady and the blue car and
54:19whatever else we're trying to compare it
54:21well something new give us a clue to
54:23where Gannon is
54:24and then secondly we're looking at
54:27building a case against Leticia and
54:29working towards a an arrest in an
54:32interview okay
54:33so let's jump into that
54:35um when was the defendant ultimately
54:38arrested March 2nd 2020. what were
54:41circumstances that led to that arrest as
54:43it relates to your involvement
54:46so the Sheriff's Office and the FBI
54:49agents that were assigned the case in
54:51Colorado Springs had drafted an
54:52affidavit that a judge had signed off on
54:55and uh
54:57our team had been communicating with law
54:59enforcement in South Carolina to arrange
55:02an arrest and possible interview of her
55:04if she was willing to afterwards did you
55:07in fact travel from Colorado to South
55:09Carolina to conduct to be participating
55:12in that yes
55:14was that on March 2nd exactly yes it was
55:18um describe for the jury
55:21um
55:21how were you there when she was taken
55:24into custody I was describe that for the
55:26jury
55:27I was on the very periphery wasn't close
55:30but it was in a mall parking lot I
55:32believe and local law enforcement did
55:34the arrest
55:35I did come up and introduce myself to
55:39Leticia and told her I was with the FBI
55:41in Denver and I would like to speak with
55:43her that we were going to take her to a
55:46law enforcement facility
55:48did you in fact then have her
55:50transported to that law enforcement
55:51facility yes was that at the Myrtle
55:54Beach Police Department it was did you
55:57interview her there yes jeremia
55:59approached the people's exhibit 354. me
56:06you recognize this exhibit I do
56:09that's the DVD of the recording of the
56:12interview I had with satisha I have
56:14initialed it and dated it is it a fair
56:16and accurate copy of that um yes
56:24that's no objection your honor exhibit
56:27354 will be admitted go ahead
56:31do you know roughly
56:32um how long this particular interview is
56:35approximately five hours
56:41and let's go over
56:44um is there an initial phase of an
56:46interview where you
56:48maybe are building rapport with somebody
56:51yes letting whoever I'm speaking to
56:54understand the purpose of the interview
56:55explaining why why I am there
56:59and then because Leticia was not free to
57:02leave I advised her of her rights
57:05pursuant to Miranda
57:06is it typical to do the advisement of
57:09rights under Miranda when somebody's in
57:11custody yes what's the purpose of that
57:15to let her know that she doesn't have to
57:18talk to me if she doesn't want to and
57:19she can have an attorney present and
57:21she's free to leave at any time is this
57:23something that you just talk to somebody
57:24about
57:26or is there a form that there's a form
57:28that I go through okay uh do you
57:30actually have them sign the form yes did
57:32you do that with this defendant I did do
57:35you know what name she used to sign that
57:36form
57:38I don't remember I'm guessing it's
57:40Leticia Stout does it say Tisha stalk on
57:42it that sounds right okay
57:45uh did she indicate that she understood
57:46her rights she did did she even go
57:49further than that in trying to put
57:51conditions on a specific right
57:54as it relates to attorney yes okay
57:57um did that indicate that on to you from
58:00your perspective that she appeared to
58:03understand those rights and and could
58:05contemplate them and
58:06potentially even try to put additional
58:08conditions on them correct
58:13you know at this time I'd like to start
58:15publishing and what I intend to do with
58:17people's exhibit 354 is just keep Mr
58:19Goosey on the stand play portions based
58:21on questions that I'm asking obviously
58:23the whole interview is in evidence judge
58:25all right go ahead
58:46thank you
58:55thank you
59:19and we are going to record this
59:21I'm just wondering if uh we can check
59:24with the jurors to see this one's a
59:25little quieter than the other recorded
59:27phone calls if they can hear this okay
59:29uh the other thing is it sounds as
59:31though your plan is to play part of this
59:34and then stop it and ask questions
59:35during part of it that's right yeah
59:37it'll I'll do this throughout judge okay
59:39um I think for the purpose of the record
59:42to remain clear you just need to
59:43identify
59:44um
59:45the time stamp where you're stopping
59:47yeah I will yep
59:51about as loud as I can make it okay
59:53let's see
59:54protection
59:56can you all hear it okay
1:00:01or with t-shirt and John grusing at the
1:00:04FBI met you in the mall parking lot
1:00:07do you know why you're here did they
1:00:09inform you the officers of why you're
1:00:11under arrest yes
1:00:13all right or damage stops a warrant was
1:00:18issued out of Colorado okay but no
1:00:20someone could have just called me
1:00:22it's a big theme
1:00:25yeah and apologize for that
1:00:28um because of the nature of the warrant
1:00:30it being a murder warrant there's
1:00:32there's
1:00:33and that's what I'd like to talk with
1:00:35you about today that's why we're not
1:00:36having a cast of thousands here and
1:00:38whatever is we would like to get to the
1:00:39bottom of what happened there
1:00:42um I know that a lot of things have gone
1:00:44on with your life a little bit of how
1:00:46this turned time
1:00:48okay but because you were arrested
1:00:50you're not free to leave I need you to
1:00:51expand of advice or rights before we can
1:00:53talk
1:00:54well I mean so I'm getting charged with
1:00:57it right now
1:00:58so you were charged and uh judge in
1:01:02Colorado Springs signed off but the way
1:01:04this case worked was El Paso County got
1:01:07the first the original case they didn't
1:01:09have enough manpower to work in okay so
1:01:12they called the FBI
1:01:14part of the
1:01:16for the for the FBI on an extension of
1:01:19the profiling unit and I came in and
1:01:21assisted and I've been helping for about
1:01:24the last three weeks so our evidence
1:01:26Response Team you've probably seen that
1:01:28on the news we've been doing some
1:01:29searches Etc and then other FBI agents
1:01:32have been writing warrant
1:01:35the warrants have been written we've
1:01:36gone through the court El Paso Sheriff's
1:01:39Office and FBI have worked together and
1:01:41we found enough we call a probable cause
1:01:45or want to be issued so that's why
1:01:48you're here today they weren't for what
1:01:49no it was for the murder you cannot stop
1:01:53so again
1:01:55that's what the evidence shows okay and
1:01:58I'm happy to share with you evidence but
1:01:59we can't have a conversation unless
1:02:01you're advised of your rights okay what
1:02:03am I right
1:02:11so this is an advisor rights form
1:02:14I'll fill it out at the top and you
1:02:17don't have to answer any question oh I
1:02:19am okay so I'm not going to force you to
1:02:21answer anything if you want this
1:02:22interview to be done it's done
1:02:24we're in
1:02:32huge a second
1:02:49so I'd like you to initial these as we
1:02:51go through them you have the right to
1:02:53remain silent any things that can be
1:02:55used against you in court
1:02:57you have the right to talk to a lawyer
1:02:59for advice before we ask you any
1:03:00questions
1:03:01you have the right to have a lawyer with
1:03:03you during questioning if you cannot
1:03:05afford a lawyer want to be appointed for
1:03:07you before questioning if you wish
1:03:09and if you decide to answer questions
1:03:11lawyer president you have the right to
1:03:13stop answering at any time I'm not going
1:03:15to force you to say anything okay so I
1:03:18had already like had an attorney but
1:03:24it's up to you I'm not going to force
1:03:26you to think I mean
1:03:28if you don't we can talk to you but I
1:03:31mean the the last time I asked for an
1:03:33eternity talking to them I wasn't
1:03:35allowed that after I asked that's not
1:03:37how that's the pointed though this would
1:03:38be a conversation
1:03:42without a family to protect but I'm not
1:03:44going to violate anything you don't mind
1:03:46doing that at all
1:03:48um class at any point I would like to
1:03:50call my teammates is that okay that is
1:03:53okay okay so
1:03:55can I write that in somewhere or well
1:03:58that's this one right here
1:03:59if you decide to answer any questions on
1:04:01the lawyer president you have the right
1:04:03to stop at any time
1:04:08and if you need food water whatever else
1:04:10this is not we're not going to have
1:04:13people with guns standing outside trying
1:04:14to intimidate you I want this to be your
1:04:16statements in our conversation
1:04:42so
1:04:44I was thinking of a lot of things to say
1:04:46to you today because I've been hoping
1:04:49I've been involved
1:04:51I've unfortunately worked a lot of
1:04:53missing kids bases that's why they
1:04:55called me to do this
1:04:57Mark who's the dad Dylan who actually
1:05:00was in Colorado Springs with mom went to
1:05:03go see Dad this was in November of 2012.
1:05:06and then he disappeared it's a lot like
1:05:10what happened here
1:05:12what I just happened with Mark is uh and
1:05:17Mark wouldn't let him go
1:05:19and I think Mark got upset I think Dylan
1:05:22did some things that irritated Mark I
1:05:24think there was just a punch in the face
1:05:26I just went down here well and I'm not
1:05:30I'm not saying that's what happened I
1:05:32can help you because what you're
1:05:34charging me with is not or whoever is
1:05:37not the case
1:05:38imminent alive okay and I can help you
1:05:41okay great but see here's the problem
1:05:43when I reach out to people about getting
1:05:46help I said hey I need someone who's
1:05:49going to help me to help you guys I
1:05:51couldn't get that for me
1:05:54at all okay so I understand you might
1:05:58say you have like whatever evidence that
1:06:00you might say you have but that's not a
1:06:03case it did not hurt my child okay
1:06:06need more assistance besides FBI you're
1:06:09probably going to be a probably a lot a
1:06:11lot of Health I'm happy to get whatever
1:06:13how do you know but I can't help you and
1:06:16with people willing to help me and I did
1:06:19offer every opportunity to sit down and
1:06:21talk with not only my husband
1:06:23well it was Landing to try to come up
1:06:26with the best thing
1:06:27I really do
1:06:29and I've been begging every single day
1:06:31please please please don't think this
1:06:34okay
1:06:35you I know your expert in your field
1:06:37okay I know you may say you have
1:06:39whatever evidence you have but it's just
1:06:41not true okay
1:06:43not
1:06:44it's not true that gannon's Dad I'm not
1:06:48going to sit here and say a hundred
1:06:49percent I can show you that there's
1:06:51really things that wouldn't have
1:06:52occurred that I can help you guys with
1:06:55to know that and it leaves actors and
1:06:58things just being in the wrong place at
1:07:00their own time that's that's the truth
1:07:02that is the very true and every day that
1:07:06went by
1:07:07I had to do nothing but not only protect
1:07:10myself but protect my family and then
1:07:12protect other people in this and it's
1:07:15just
1:07:17that's just let it do
1:07:18I think our biggest problem is what
1:07:21happened at the house then and the house
1:07:23yes well there's nothing that would have
1:07:26happened at the house that has anything
1:07:28to do with what what I'm talking about
1:07:31that has nothing to do with anything
1:07:34because you guys have like clearly put
1:07:38out this information about and not
1:07:40coming home and then this and that and
1:07:42the other and I get like I say expert
1:07:45people with forensics
1:07:48but it's just you know the truth
1:07:52it's not for sure
1:07:57and until I know that I I got to get
1:07:59help from some people other than someone
1:08:01just having me in a room
1:08:03we've got to get help to do that I gotta
1:08:05get help to you everyone with me because
1:08:07I need my mom protected
1:08:09I mean
1:08:11Mr protected and most importantly I mean
1:08:13you're highly protected and on that same
1:08:16note I'm also going to meet other people
1:08:17in Colorado
1:08:19and see people say FBI can offer that
1:08:21protection
1:08:23okay
1:08:24how how
1:08:26if it involves finding an 11 year old
1:08:29and it means that we can have new
1:08:32identities it does
1:08:41thank you
1:08:43who else would you trust
1:08:45I don't know what to explain sir I don't
1:08:47know
1:08:48there's nothing that happened at any
1:08:51house
1:08:52nothing that happened at any house that
1:08:56would have hurt hard murdered done
1:08:59anything to anyone
1:09:01okay
1:09:02wrong place
1:09:03wrong time you were in the wrong place
1:09:06organized Island what about family
1:09:10we we all were in the wrong places my
1:09:13even my family was in real estate on
1:09:14time even rain even hardly okay with all
1:09:17of us in the wrong place at the wrong
1:09:19turn
1:09:21and I said where do you remember so
1:09:26but I got it just like do you have trust
1:09:28issues let me tell you where I am
1:09:30someone with the FBI where when a child
1:09:33goes missing if they're under age then
1:09:36we can get involved and it's it can be
1:09:38even a kidnapping so if Ganon has moved
1:09:41from one point to another without his
1:09:43you know will then it's a child
1:09:46kidnapping right and so that's what
1:09:48we're working with us and with me as a
1:09:50federal employee with me working a
1:09:52federal case because right now it's
1:09:54filed with the district attorney that
1:09:56the U.S attorney can file at as well
1:09:57does that make sense what do you mean
1:09:59the U.S attorney is the federal okay
1:10:02prosecutors right now it's on the state
1:10:05when you're talking to me we are
1:10:08recording this for your integrity in
1:10:10mind but if you'd rather not say
1:10:12something I mean if I would rather you
1:10:15just say I don't want to answer it
1:10:16instead of telling me something that's
1:10:18not true okay because there's something
1:10:20called false statements which is about
1:10:22it's U.S code 1001 to where if you lied
1:10:25to us during an investigation that can
1:10:26be a year of present time so that's why
1:10:28I said on this last one if you want to
1:10:31not answer a question I'm not going to
1:10:32push you okay okay so so what these
1:10:36people you know taking Gannon or
1:10:38whatever else if it's not true
1:10:40just say I'd rather not answer that
1:10:42okay because we're different than your
1:10:44local detectives and whatever else it's
1:10:46not a felony Verizon okay okay so
1:10:50my goal though is to find again right
1:10:54and
1:10:55if you need protection if there truly is
1:10:58someone out there we can provide that
1:11:00yes
1:11:01I will need you to explain what happened
1:11:04from that night which night the night
1:11:07that he disappeared
1:11:09so I've stopped it at 12 minutes judge
1:11:12um
1:11:13just as a pause
1:11:18in the beginning portion of that Mr
1:11:20gruesing when you're advising her that
1:11:23she's been charged with murder
1:11:24um
1:11:26it appears that she acts like she's as
1:11:28confused
1:11:29um what was your impression of that
1:11:33uh yeah So eventually she asked me so
1:11:35gannon's been murdered but yeah she
1:11:37appeared to be confused as to why she
1:11:39was there and what investigation might
1:11:41have been going on at the time
1:11:43um she makes a statement
1:11:45um you could have just called me yes was
1:11:48that basically indicating that could
1:11:50have just called her and she would have
1:11:51come in and talked
1:11:53yeah and that's something I've heard
1:11:54multiple times over my career of why
1:11:57didn't you just call me instead of I
1:11:58have to be arrested for this were you
1:12:00aware
1:12:01um that very early on in this
1:12:02investigation
1:12:03um she was resisting Falls from
1:12:05detective Bethel to come in and give an
1:12:07interview I was
1:12:14um she makes a statement that she's been
1:12:15begging every single day
1:12:18um for somebody to help her and so stuff
1:12:20like I can't help if you don't help me
1:12:23um what was your take away from that
1:12:27yeah I think I could couple that with
1:12:29when she said that she would need even
1:12:32more help than the FBI could provide
1:12:34whether it's DEA and then she rolled
1:12:36into she needs secret identities for
1:12:38herself and multiple people I think she
1:12:40was giving me a task that she thought I
1:12:42I couldn't meet and therefore she might
1:12:44not have to talk about difficult things
1:12:47um is the FBI equipped to do those
1:12:49things for witnesses that need
1:12:50protection we are it takes a very
1:12:53extraordinary circumstance or but they
1:12:56could if they had to okay so I guess the
1:12:58question is is if that was actually
1:13:01necessary here could the FBI have
1:13:03provided that yes so you were the right
1:13:05person to talk to if that was the
1:13:07eventuality I could get the right person
1:13:09for her okay
1:13:12no
1:13:15I want to jump into uh the next section
1:13:18did you have a chance to talk with her
1:13:21about the calls that you had we'd gone
1:13:24over those consensual recorded calls yes
1:13:26I'm gonna jump to 12 minutes and 30
1:13:28seconds judge
1:13:31I can find my mouse on the screen there
1:13:33it is
1:13:50it's actually 12 minutes and 33 seconds
1:13:52I can't get that three to cooperate with
1:13:55me
1:13:59um you mean like talking to him oh okay
1:14:01so let me just let me just explain that
1:14:03to you and you might think that's like
1:14:04super like I'm not going to judge you
1:14:07here whatever to him was I was the
1:14:09reason I already knew someone was like
1:14:12but because of him and I ever like being
1:14:16like supportive and I tried originally
1:14:18to talk to him when he first got there
1:14:20that was the only reason I said this
1:14:23thing was just because I was out of
1:14:25anger and I was like her and not being
1:14:28able to have like it was nothing to do
1:14:31with like
1:14:32like I'm sitting here going to tell you
1:14:34that was just anger stupidity
1:14:38let's pause that 13 minutes and 11
1:14:41seconds
1:14:56this will be a long and interesting day
1:14:58everyone
1:15:22picking back up from where we left off
1:15:24it's at 13 minutes and 11 seconds and
1:15:26playing again from there
1:15:28and I already knew like I even if you
1:15:30heard it you heard me say a lot of times
1:15:32I know people are listening because I
1:15:34know at the same time that someone
1:15:36called every time I could hear people I
1:15:39knew that so me saying those things to
1:15:41him was just being
1:15:43what what is the word you want to call
1:15:44it selfish or vacation whatever you want
1:15:47to call it just because that one I was I
1:15:50was hurt by him not
1:15:51wanting to work together to figure this
1:15:54out because I did have like originally
1:15:56initials different thoughts on certain
1:15:59things and that was me trying to like
1:16:01basically read him and try to figure the
1:16:03situation so I understand that you may
1:16:06have heard those or whatever you may
1:16:07have heard and that's okay because that
1:16:09totally was wrong
1:16:10that was not me trying to play that was
1:16:12just being
1:16:14stupid to him
1:16:16so
1:16:17um and it's it's paused right now 13
1:16:19minutes and 59 seconds Mr gushing
1:16:24um
1:16:26what were your impressions of her saying
1:16:28that she's giving all this misleading
1:16:30information in those phone calls because
1:16:31she's just angry
1:16:34yeah I don't think there's much more to
1:16:36comment besides that instead of being
1:16:39focused like Al was and the rest of us
1:16:42of trying to find what happened to an 11
1:16:43year old boy she was again focusing on
1:16:45her feelings
1:16:47does it also though show um potentially
1:16:49that it's very calculated that she's
1:16:51doing things in response to what's
1:16:54happening in the investigation
1:16:55yes that's correct okay
1:16:59and then we'll just play from here until
1:17:0115 minutes and 42 seconds
1:17:04um in this particular section
1:17:06um do you remember asking her about
1:17:07mental health and sound mind and those
1:17:09types of things yes okay so we'll play
1:17:12starting here and go to 15 minutes and
1:17:1442 seconds
1:17:16in regards to that do were you
1:17:20absound mind I mean did you have are you
1:17:24undergoing any treatment for anxiety or
1:17:27any depression or anything like that
1:17:29right now I mean like you mean like I
1:17:32don't I mean I've had anxiety since I
1:17:34was like
1:17:35like
1:17:37as far as like
1:17:39undergoing like any kind of special
1:17:41treatment
1:17:43you know like sometimes I might
1:17:45have to risk
1:17:47right but um I didn't see anymore
1:17:51[Music]
1:17:55and then book two like right now
1:18:00Recreation eight weeks pregnant
1:18:04any kind of like uh I mean I wish I
1:18:08could because then it would help a lot
1:18:10with the anxiety
1:18:14okay but so you were of sound mind when
1:18:16you were talking to Al you were just you
1:18:19were upset with him and upset with the
1:18:20situation of him not being by your side
1:18:23to this whole thing right and but then
1:18:25at the same time like I have to sit back
1:18:26and think
1:18:28and think you know in a person's brain
1:18:29you don't hear a hundred different
1:18:31things you do get
1:18:36do whatever
1:18:38I just wanted him to know because he
1:18:40knows like I've been I've been taking
1:18:42care of our kids like for so long life
1:18:47I'm not hearing gosh either one of them
1:18:49I just they had a lot of different
1:18:51separate situations going on that I'm
1:18:53always taking care of the kids and so
1:18:55there's been times I've protected them
1:18:57from so many people you know
1:19:01so it's now paused again at 15 minutes
1:19:03and 42 seconds
1:19:05um why are you asking these types of
1:19:06questions about sand mind and mental
1:19:08health uh based questions
1:19:10well I spoke with the District
1:19:12Attorney's office before the interview
1:19:14and they suggested that I asked them I
1:19:17don't always ask these of people that
1:19:20I'm interviewing but because of the
1:19:23varying stories and because of uh the
1:19:27District Attorney's office and
1:19:28investigators looking forward to trial
1:19:30we wanted to make sure that
1:19:32she knew what she was doing while she
1:19:35was talking to Al during our
1:19:37investigation and then while I was even
1:19:38talking to her at the present
1:19:41um when when these types of
1:19:43Investigations are ongoing
1:19:45um is the investigation goal to
1:19:48try to build a case that will plead out
1:19:50or do you have to assume that it will go
1:19:52to trial we assume that it'll go to
1:19:54trial
1:19:56um you asked her what she sound mind
1:19:59um during this time do you remember what
1:20:01her response was in that
1:20:04um she said that well I can't remember
1:20:07right after that but she referenced the
1:20:10reason why she was doing what she was
1:20:12doing to Al because to
1:20:15make him come back to her in the
1:20:17relationship basically in in the in that
1:20:20particular um call or I'm sorry in that
1:20:22particular portion of the interview it's
1:20:24at 15 minutes exactly when you ask about
1:20:26where you sound mind and she says right
1:20:28yes um and then she goes into that
1:20:31description of taking care of the kids
1:20:32does this start to build in your mind
1:20:35when we talk about that pattern of
1:20:37behavior and then that pathway to
1:20:39violence that you talked about
1:20:42I haven't gotten to the question yet
1:20:44let's get all the way to the end first
1:20:47and then we'll see whether it's leading
1:20:48or not
1:20:49um does that information that she's
1:20:51giving you there
1:20:53um build into
1:20:54uh that grievance portion of that
1:20:57pathway to violence yes in what way
1:21:02she was articulating that in her mind
1:21:04she felt like she was a good mother and
1:21:06she was a good caretaker for Gannon
1:21:10and that uh
1:21:13she had over the phone calls expressed
1:21:15multiple Grievances and we actually
1:21:18addressed that later on in the interview
1:21:21when we go through her
1:21:23phone searches uh you know we go into
1:21:25more of the grievance portion later but
1:21:27just that she brought up her being the
1:21:29caretaker initially
1:21:32is something that we address later on in
1:21:34the interview yeah
1:21:37do you remember asking her um about what
1:21:39kind of dad Al is to Ganon
1:21:42I don't okay well let's jump to that
1:21:45portion of the interview starting at 15
1:21:47minutes and 53 seconds
1:21:57I'm actually going to jump to 15 minutes
1:21:59and 49 seconds and we'll play it to 17
1:22:02minutes and 10 seconds
1:22:04uh like I've had the opinion and protect
1:22:07them a lot so many times what kind of
1:22:10dad would you say Al was to Gannon or is
1:22:13together oh he's a good dad like
1:22:16as far as like being like there for him
1:22:20and like you know [ __ ] family
1:22:22if he says Hey I want to go do something
1:22:24Albert worked a lot so he's tired and
1:22:26his hours are like kind of you know up
1:22:29in the air here and there but for the
1:22:31most part he like is always trying to
1:22:33make sure he put you know like the kids
1:22:36military first you know we will be in
1:22:39the mindset and then did you go into the
1:22:41marriage knowing that okay
1:22:43well I grew up like knowing that when I
1:22:46said that it was here actually that's
1:22:48why I was looking at that guy's name but
1:22:50my stepdad was here um
1:22:53that I lived
1:22:57like I maybe didn't understand it from
1:23:00parent perspective I mean I'm sorry
1:23:03because like my mom but I did understand
1:23:06it from like a child perspective but the
1:23:09thing about it was Albert didn't have to
1:23:11like go be deploying or anything like
1:23:13that it was mostly like work through the
1:23:16night
1:23:17so it was like we are blessed in that
1:23:19way of not having
1:23:24[Music]
1:23:25or something right
1:23:27so
1:23:28um when you're asking her about uh how
1:23:31Alice to Gannon as a father
1:23:35um she references that she grew up in as
1:23:37a military child as well correct
1:23:40she mentions her stepdad
1:23:42um at any point
1:23:44either during the phone calls or up to
1:23:46this point in the interview that she
1:23:48ever mention any abuse by step dad she
1:23:50did not
1:23:51in that last section that we heard where
1:23:54you're asking her about being in sound
1:23:55mind
1:23:57um she mentioned having anxiety and
1:23:59taking Lorazepam did she mention
1:24:01anything during that section of of this
1:24:03interview about having any severe mental
1:24:05health disorders or diseases no did she
1:24:08ever mention being in treatment for
1:24:10extended periods of time for any mental
1:24:12health issues no uh did she ever mention
1:24:16um
1:24:17losing Consciousness and not showing up
1:24:21someplace else that she didn't recognize
1:24:22no
1:24:24did you go over family history with her
1:24:26during this interview yes so let's watch
1:24:29that next and it's essentially 17
1:24:31minutes and 12 seconds to 21 minutes and
1:24:3320 seconds
1:24:35all right and you guys have been married
1:24:37six years five years five years
1:24:40and you came to the marriage with Carly
1:24:43right and then Elena's the youngest
1:24:46right
1:24:48and then we had like
1:24:51maybe I think four or five once you like
1:24:54kind of midterm lived here because we
1:24:57always try to like happy and I don't
1:24:59know like something must have happened
1:25:01like when I get to a service for me
1:25:06do you think I was faithful to you is he
1:25:09cheating on you
1:25:10um I don't like kind of we never had
1:25:13like any conversation feel like of
1:25:15course not recently but like prior to
1:25:18that we never had like a
1:25:21like buses or it might be something like
1:25:23Albert side person I think off work he
1:25:25just liked
1:25:26it wasn't like
1:25:28I wanna go do this
1:25:35yeah like not saying you can't
1:25:40you can't you know right usually for the
1:25:43most part we'd do it like do it together
1:25:46do something together but it would never
1:25:48really like having our own people
1:25:52we never like had issues of anything
1:25:55like that most of the time the issues
1:25:57that we always had was I never wanted
1:26:00the kids to ever come back here a lot of
1:26:02times it was so great and leave again
1:26:07right we would always say well I have to
1:26:10I'm obligated
1:26:14well you don't think he was cheating on
1:26:16you prior to this whole thing
1:26:19um did you suspect
1:26:23no the I mean there's been times in the
1:26:26past where I've saw that he's talked to
1:26:27other women you know like on messages
1:26:30and things like that but then he's also
1:26:32like we about to have my phone in the
1:26:34past he would have thought that he's
1:26:35always apologized for
1:26:40were you guys considering divorce or no
1:26:42you and Albert I didn't know anything
1:26:44about any kind of divorce like I know
1:26:46like we used to turn Loosely you know
1:26:48because there was a lot of stress having
1:26:50to deal with
1:26:52um like a situation with Brandon it was
1:26:55a live stream
1:26:56okay like we felt so hard and so long to
1:27:00get kids so like a safe you know uh
1:27:04situation so it was very hard to like
1:27:08you've read someone and they're so
1:27:09emotionally like upset about the kids
1:27:12not being with us they're really not
1:27:13being a president that it was kind of
1:27:16hard it took a lot you know told
1:27:18throughout that time frame of like the
1:27:20last uh
1:27:28to like have to see him be so upset from
1:27:31so many miles away you know we get calls
1:27:33that kids didn't have police stay we get
1:27:36calls that they were friends in the back
1:27:37of their car and people want to be
1:27:39arrested that took its toll into terms
1:27:42of like figure we should not have to
1:27:46like go through these things but then
1:27:48once like we got to Colorado
1:27:49[Music]
1:27:51um you know we all could be in like one
1:27:53place and then it was like kind of first
1:27:56it was like kind of hard because
1:28:00so long because you know if you know the
1:28:02background I had the kids here for their
1:28:04school years
1:28:06it was a first grade here we worked
1:28:09three years yeah so they would have went
1:28:12to school here
1:28:13no I had been here with the screen
1:28:16I feel with that it was supposed to be a
1:28:19part going back and forth yeah
1:28:22so that would have been the most you
1:28:25know just what I'm like saying that we
1:28:26got to Colorado it was just like okay
1:28:28we're here
1:28:29you know we are
1:28:31together yeah they're we've done stupid
1:28:33things to each other
1:28:37but like the things that we could do to
1:28:39be like okay we'll forget all this or if
1:28:41you do this we'll do it in freeholders
1:28:44really strong
1:28:46so deposit at 2120 and before I jump
1:28:48into these next questions just just
1:28:50noticing the time do you want me to go
1:28:51to about 10 30 and then it's up to you I
1:28:54was actually just going to say whenever
1:28:55you could find a break in the next five
1:28:57minutes or so okay okay sounds good
1:29:00this particular section Mr goosing
1:29:03um was she able to recount
1:29:05um details over this five-year period
1:29:07that her and Mr Stout had been together
1:29:09yes she indicate any trouble on
1:29:12remembering these details no
1:29:14yeah
1:29:17did she also even give you recounting uh
1:29:21silly arguments that they would have
1:29:22that kind of thing yes she did
1:29:26did that indicates you that she appeared
1:29:28to be able to recall things fairly
1:29:29easily yes
1:29:37do you remember
1:29:38um talking with her about uh
1:29:42where she starts talking about people
1:29:43are being upset and she she uses the
1:29:45words hard part this is the hard part
1:29:47yes okay let's go ahead and watch that
1:29:49section and this is uh from 23 45 to
1:29:522551
1:30:07let's I'm actually going to start at
1:30:0923.35 and then we'll go to 25 51.
1:30:14distance going through that because I
1:30:16still deal with dads 14 years later we
1:30:20were looking for their daughters and bus
1:30:22stops and malls but whatever so and see
1:30:24that's the hard part is like people are
1:30:25like you know
1:30:27being upset and like I haven't had the
1:30:29opportunity to like even just sit down
1:30:31and be like okay well this is I've given
1:30:35my life to take care of these children I
1:30:37I have they should
1:30:41you know that I I've done that it's so
1:30:45hard because inside that I don't get to
1:30:47express that emotion to have them you
1:30:50know to say to anyone anything like that
1:30:52no
1:30:54more difficult because I've had to just
1:30:56be like how can I how can I make the
1:31:00situation back you know
1:31:02let's be honest I'm John John yeah I
1:31:06mean like Albert was talking about and
1:31:08again
1:31:10we literally woke up on Christmas I
1:31:12always make it about the kids and
1:31:13Christmas because they don't get to
1:31:14spend Christmas with them
1:31:16so like if they went home for the
1:31:18holidays you know they might leave you
1:31:19know we might not see him until you know
1:31:22January so I I always spent my time
1:31:25trying to make sure every time I didn't
1:31:27believe in certain holidays and it was
1:31:29Halloween but to make sure every hot
1:31:30every holiday was like revolved around
1:31:33the situation so
1:31:35for if you look at the situation I went
1:31:38you know we have every house and cars
1:31:41and we have whatever so I work my entire
1:31:43life
1:31:47so to me it's like everything I work so
1:31:51hard for everything I worked
1:31:54in military or you know service and
1:31:57things like that no matter how much we
1:31:59had did on that it took us everything to
1:32:02get good
1:32:03in in that was where we were at in our
1:32:06based on so for a person who came and
1:32:10take care of everyone and do everything
1:32:11for everyone and then just
1:32:15cannot do it for a split second that's
1:32:18the hardest part you know
1:32:20knowing that this is an image getting
1:32:23fed on me all these horrible things all
1:32:25these things that are just not true well
1:32:27that's what we'd like to get to today
1:32:29and that's
1:32:31and so Mr uh goosing where she's talking
1:32:35about I've given my life to take care of
1:32:37these kids is this building more on that
1:32:39grievance portion that we talked about
1:32:40earlier
1:32:43yes I was asking her about while I was
1:32:45talking to her about when kids go
1:32:47missing how hard it is on parents
1:32:50families Society
1:32:52Etc and then
1:32:53she you know talked about herself again
1:32:57and then what she tried to do to be a
1:32:59mom and
1:33:01yeah yeah I would see that as and then
1:33:04she went from there to holidays you know
1:33:06so she wasn't going where I would like
1:33:09her to go to see the again the gravity
1:33:11of us looking for an 11 year old child
1:33:14is that another indication of trying to
1:33:17distract away from the main focus of
1:33:19what this investigation was about yes
1:33:24um judge this might be a good time the
1:33:25next section is about 13 minutes long
1:33:29all right ladies and gentlemen we will
1:33:31take our morning break if I can have
1:33:32everyone back in the Jury Room at say 10
1:33:3545 we should be able to start on time at
1:33:37that point again don't discuss the case
1:33:39among yourself don't discuss the case
1:33:41with anyone else uh don't do your own
1:33:44investigation about any aspect of the
1:33:46case with that we'll see you all back at
1:33:4810 45. I'll rise for the jury please
1:34:21thank you may all be seated Mr gruesome
1:34:22you can go ahead and step down if you
1:34:24would like
1:34:25um
1:34:27I just want to alert Council I think uh
1:34:30this afternoon uh at some time we can
1:34:32either do it before we start the
1:34:33afternoon session or towards the end of
1:34:35the day
1:34:36um I would like to go through because I
1:34:39think we're
1:34:41Paramount into the evidence I want to go
1:34:43through and compare admitted evidence
1:34:45exhibits make sure that we all have the
1:34:47same ones
1:34:49um and then that way if there's
1:34:51something that is a miss you can think
1:34:53about it over the weekend
1:34:55uh figure out some sort of solution but
1:34:58with that we'll see everybody at 10 45.
1:35:00okay thanks all right
1:35:11mike check
1:35:13hello everybody
1:35:15that was quite an eventful morning so
1:35:17far am I saying like robot G or me
1:35:21let me know I always just first check
1:35:26special agent John brusing isn't he or
1:35:29any so con
1:35:32yes I think he's like button break so
1:35:33they'll be back at 45 you know on the 45
1:35:37Wherever You Are in the world
1:35:41um
1:35:42I really like this agent and he's so
1:35:44calm
1:35:46normal G okay he's so nice and calm that
1:35:49yeah she's thinking oh cool this is
1:35:51therapy time let me just tell him
1:35:53everything and make it about me
1:35:56oh I'm telling you my eyes are going to
1:35:58need a rest after today because I'm eye
1:35:59rolling this left and right my word and
1:36:01I'm not normally such a big eye roller
1:36:03but with Leticia I can't help it it just
1:36:04happens you're just like oh my word this
1:36:06is just so frustrating so frustrating
1:36:09um
1:36:10okay and we've all figured out together
1:36:12that when WebEx is on that's what the
1:36:14court uses to stream and when the judge
1:36:15talks and I try to talk to my robot G
1:36:20no I'm right now I'm robot G
1:36:25finding you
1:36:31how does it do this why does it do this
1:36:34um doesn't it doesn't like WebEx
1:36:37okay welcome welcome to all the new
1:36:40members uh there's a lot of new members
1:36:42that joined
1:36:44thank you so much
1:36:47voice isn't lining up with math I blame
1:36:49YouTube and windows 11.
1:36:54YouTube you better start processing this
1:36:56long-ass stream
1:36:58Bill Gates
1:37:06okay
1:37:09she asked L we first heard
1:37:1229 minute call between
1:37:14foreign
1:37:20and she's like did you file for divorce
1:37:23are you cheating on me really really
1:37:26really they're looking for Ganon and
1:37:29she's just the whole time as the special
1:37:30agent said
1:37:31because just looking to keep that
1:37:33relationship going
1:37:34without just making sure we're gonna be
1:37:35together like
1:37:37are you gonna ghost me or better me but
1:37:39she left him
1:37:41she abandoned him
1:37:44I left she's sitting inside
1:37:46Carolina through all this okay
1:37:53robot G has returned
1:37:57so frustrating
1:37:59let me take this we said they're back on
1:38:01the 45 right
1:38:03I'm going to leave the webinar
1:38:05and see if that helps
1:38:12check check okay
1:38:20nothing I can do
1:38:26you Stefan it's you
1:38:31um
1:38:33it just is what it is in these trials
1:38:36standby please I want to hear myself I'm
1:38:39trying to give you a nice recap here
1:38:41but it's okay
1:38:59weird sounds it sounds good my side
1:39:03it's not like I don't believe you I'm
1:39:04just like it comes and goes we'll sort
1:39:07it out sorry about that I say we sorted
1:39:09out but it'll just be like can you just
1:39:11send some magic over so leticia's focus
1:39:16is the whole time the relationship with
1:39:18L it isn't Gannon ever and it's all me
1:39:20me and what we had to hear what we were
1:39:22subjected to
1:39:24okay is Leticia talking about a pregnant
1:39:27lady now that wasn't even pregnant that
1:39:29looked eight months pregnant that had a
1:39:30belly full of cash I mean what is that
1:39:32all about
1:39:34what was that all about
1:39:36yeah my sound system works hard
1:39:39let me take myself off so I could just
1:39:41talk
1:39:43you say it's out of sync so how about
1:39:44that
1:39:45I'll be Audio Only
1:39:48um can you believe that she said that
1:39:50this lady had a pregnant belly full of
1:39:52cash
1:39:53and that she forced her to go into the
1:39:56Petco
1:39:59a pregnant a pregnant lady who wasn't
1:40:01pregnant with a belly full of cash
1:40:03forced her to go to Petco because she
1:40:06was forcing her to do money laundering
1:40:08at Mexican restaurants take papers there
1:40:10and and and get packages
1:40:14what
1:40:16I mean what in the actual hell right
1:40:20I'm not T-Pain said I hate when people
1:40:22are eight months pregnant but they're
1:40:24already pregnant and I read
1:40:30even in the hiking video all about her
1:40:32no Ganon everything all about her yes
1:40:37I'm watching whilst revising for low
1:40:39exams love it that's nice thank you so
1:40:40much for your sticker and thanks for
1:40:42watching with us yes
1:40:44what was that about
1:40:46okay leaving the WebEx stream worked
1:40:49nice
1:40:50but bye WebEx will just watch the time
1:40:53um
1:40:56so I don't even I just got chicken
1:40:57scratch yet because I was like
1:41:00pregnant lady eight months not pregnant
1:41:02lady belly full of cash fostered no
1:41:04no
1:41:06can't even I can't even with her she
1:41:08said she walked into Petco walked around
1:41:09tried to look normal but before she
1:41:11knows she was looking out the window
1:41:12looking out the window because she was
1:41:14looking if Gannon was trying to get out
1:41:15the car or if he needed the bathroom or
1:41:16something like that what
1:41:18she said this is all about being in the
1:41:20wrong place at the wrong time
1:41:23it's got to do with money laundering
1:41:24delivering those papers to Mexican
1:41:26restaurants and getting packages
1:41:29okay she's gonna have a hard time in
1:41:31prison because Mexican and Puerto Rican
1:41:34and every race that she's insulted and
1:41:37said they're they're the criminals yeah
1:41:40I know she's going to get it she's going
1:41:41to get it
1:41:45oh my word Lizzy says and what was up
1:41:47with playing with period pads at picker
1:41:49I know she said she initially went there
1:41:51because she didn't know that dogs go on
1:41:52heat and
1:41:54and and she needed to go and get
1:41:58period pads at Petco for the dogs she
1:42:00ended up buying three dog outfits even
1:42:02though they only have two dogs so even
1:42:03that's a big red flag it's very odd
1:42:06Miss Stewie I've run out of income many
1:42:08times I've run out of ink I have
1:42:11um but luckily I've got back up
1:42:14I have a lot of pens and I never ever
1:42:16stopped buying more pens I love pens
1:42:19so some people even send me PayPal to be
1:42:21like go get more pens I think actually
1:42:23mysterious you or one of them not oh
1:42:24yeah so I love pen so it will run out uh
1:42:27make the pink writing for the FBI agent
1:42:29so he said she was focused on the
1:42:30relationship with Elle she was probing
1:42:33what Elle had seen and heard did you see
1:42:35that ring footage did you see what did
1:42:37you see what do you know and then
1:42:38anytime she picks up on what where the
1:42:40investigation is going she makes up new
1:42:42stories about what their
1:42:45finding out right she was very closely
1:42:47following the investigation that's a red
1:42:49flag of course uh for her the suspect
1:42:52okay she was in South Carolina at the
1:42:54time
1:42:56she pointed at random unknown persons
1:42:59was one of the questions yes and she did
1:43:00she was just like oh pregnant lady
1:43:02eguardo Uncle Matt Quincy Brown
1:43:06it's a lot I can't she makes my head
1:43:08spin s34x4 Explorer as organized as you
1:43:11are you are dealing with all these
1:43:13different stories did I miss bullet
1:43:15point stories yes we
1:43:17we do bullet points of her stories in
1:43:20the breaks yes uh you guys are now
1:43:22asking what my favorite pens are gel
1:43:24always gel pens love gel pens
1:43:27um
1:43:27so and welcome to the new members
1:43:31this is it too they don't like child
1:43:33killers in prison she's going to have an
1:43:35extra hard life and wait till all
1:43:38all the all the Mexicans and Puerto
1:43:40Ricans anyone who's in there
1:43:42Emperor they're gonna get it if they
1:43:44like you so you kill the child and then
1:43:45you blamed
1:43:46eguardo saying he was Mexican then he
1:43:48became Puerto Rican then it was Quincy
1:43:51Brown a black man and also some random
1:43:53pregnant lady that forced you to Manila
1:43:55what
1:43:56no
1:43:58exactly okay so then they asked special
1:44:02agent gruesing about
1:44:04um eguardo and then Quincy Brown is like
1:44:06actually it was iguardo which then
1:44:08became Uncle Matt and that Ganon and
1:44:09they jumped on Uncle Matt as well and he
1:44:12was high-fiving do you remember the
1:44:13whole thing of high-fiving this guy oh
1:44:15my word it's too much she said that
1:44:17iguardo was slim Hispanic and then he
1:44:20became black Puerto Rican she was
1:44:22describing criminal this was a good
1:44:24statement he made she was describing
1:44:25criminal activities related to ganon's
1:44:28disappearance so even though she's
1:44:29making up all these stories they're all
1:44:31criminal activities right
1:44:37Sherry says can someone tell me where
1:44:38did she hide again until she threw him
1:44:39off the bridge she threw him off the
1:44:41bridge on February 4th so she'd left
1:44:45um Colorado on February 1st
1:44:48in that van he was in the van the whole
1:44:51time
1:44:52and then when she got to
1:44:54Florida she went there at night and and
1:44:57threw the bag off yes
1:45:02Casey said she'll be a lion prison and
1:45:03tell all the wrong story to the wrong
1:45:04person we have before
1:45:07um I think it was on a member stream but
1:45:09it's on the playlist gone over the
1:45:11letters we went over in one of these
1:45:12streams as well in one of the breaks she
1:45:14went over
1:45:15um sorry we went over there she wrote
1:45:16some letters in jail to other inmates
1:45:19and yeah she's like I got you like if I
1:45:22give you money right you're going to
1:45:24help me escape you're gonna lie for me
1:45:25she's doing the same thing of course she
1:45:27is of course she is
1:45:29busy said didn't he fall off her back
1:45:31and hurts he said there's so many he was
1:45:32abducted from Petco fell off his bike
1:45:34hurt his head he returned home with her
1:45:38um all kinds there's so many stories
1:45:41there was also the story of someone
1:45:43following them the Craigs of this guy
1:45:45iguardo Uncle Matt Quincy Brown
1:45:48and the Craigs this guy was following
1:45:50them and now this Craig's this guy seems
1:45:51to be someone in a blue like a Mini
1:45:54Cooper or something
1:45:56forget the red car that's checked out
1:45:58someone in Larson Ranch has checked it
1:46:00out for her already and I'm still gonna
1:46:02say I think she's talking about Nicole
1:46:04Mobley the Fantastic witness who was one
1:46:07of the neighbors and she had befriended
1:46:09Leticia to get information it was like
1:46:12full-blown undercover you know it was
1:46:13really good because Leticia initially
1:46:15blocked her on Facebook and Nicole then
1:46:18found a way to get back in touch with
1:46:20her and then play as if she's on her
1:46:21side to get information so I think what
1:46:24she said they asked somebody in Lawson
1:46:25Ranch which she called an investigative
1:46:27reporter that she said she hired she
1:46:29said they've checked out that red that
1:46:31red vehicle no
1:46:32now it's a blue car so to me it sounds
1:46:35like Craigslist dude and some lady with
1:46:37a belly full of cash
1:46:38yes those ones were following them snow
1:46:41which says I'm so sick of her voice
1:46:43she's the most selfish narcissistic
1:46:45excuse of a so-called human being love
1:46:47your impeccable workers they're sending
1:46:48love from Cornwall UK thank you so much
1:46:51no witch I really appreciate it
1:46:54you might really enjoy our members only
1:46:56snarky times you sound like the right
1:47:00the right you got the right kind of
1:47:02snark for those dreams
1:47:04um
1:47:05okay so the FBI interview that we are
1:47:07watching today is five hours long but
1:47:09they're playing portions of it it so so
1:47:12far we only had like 23 minutes or so
1:47:15but they did say portions of it so
1:47:17there's that
1:47:18it took place on March 2nd 2020. Leticia
1:47:21style took Harley to a recruitment uh
1:47:25office for the Army and
1:47:28let me just check the time
1:47:31almost there okay Leticia took Harley to
1:47:34a recruitment center and while Holly was
1:47:37there yeah Leticia they swooped in and
1:47:39arrested her they'd been watching her
1:47:40for four days already okay they'd
1:47:43already been tracking and investing
1:47:44anything but they watched it for four
1:47:45days they're like swooping now she was
1:47:46arrested so what we're seeing is an
1:47:49interview or interrogation video as we
1:47:51like with special agent FBI special
1:47:54agent John grusing
1:47:56you know the guy you guys say Men In
1:47:58Black and Matrix and all that he's
1:47:59brilliant so we're seeing that he's so
1:48:02calm he's just focusing the whole time
1:48:03on Ganon
1:48:04um you know she's telling all stories
1:48:07answers whatever whatever and she says
1:48:09that is the very truth to him now this
1:48:11is from March 2nd as I say gannon's
1:48:13remains were not found until March 17th
1:48:15and it was found by chance by a bridge
1:48:18inspector who says the bridges are only
1:48:20inspected every two years so
1:48:23there was a big chance he would have
1:48:25never been found can you imagine that
1:48:26maybe at some point someone would have
1:48:28found it because the suitcase was kind
1:48:29of like jutting out it but people could
1:48:31see like what the hell is that but you'd
1:48:33have to be kind of down there you know
1:48:36uh welcome
1:48:37Wendy
1:48:40okay
1:48:42so she said all of us all of us were in
1:48:45the wrong place at the wrong time I saw
1:48:47where to you
1:48:48now it's all it was first just her then
1:48:51was her and Ganon there was her and
1:48:53Gannon and Elena and Harley all of them
1:48:54wrong place wrong time
1:48:57what an idiotic excuse on my word I
1:48:59can't wait to watch more of this right
1:49:00she
1:49:02she said she needs secret identities for
1:49:05herself and family members like witness
1:49:07protection well if she's got did doesn't
1:49:09she have her own other identities
1:49:13Leticia you debunk yourself all the time
1:49:17anyway she's talking about witness
1:49:18protection and he's like
1:49:20yeah I know she's like I need to protect
1:49:22myself and family members and she says
1:49:24yeah yeah whatever whatever to a special
1:49:26agent she's done it before we've seen
1:49:28her do it before to other special agents
1:49:30with the FBI just saying whatever
1:49:31whatever and yada yada no can't believe
1:49:34it
1:49:35snow witches I love the sound of snarky
1:49:37we'll check it out yeah check out the
1:49:39members on your playlist
1:49:40we we do snark it up sometimes after
1:49:42these days we need to vent we have a
1:49:44members only stream even if it's two in
1:49:46the morning for me and we snark it up
1:49:48because we need to
1:49:49um MP says cruising would be an awesome
1:49:51guess g
1:49:52one can dream one can definitely dream
1:49:56okay so now let's make sure that we get
1:49:59the chord going again
1:50:02because we've got how many
1:50:04more minutes a few more minutes
1:50:09yeah the witness protection idea oh my
1:50:11word
1:50:13red forces when I hear the teacher
1:50:15tocola here's yada yada yada blah blah
1:50:17blah um
1:50:19okay join that webinar please
1:50:23how does my mic sound now because okay
1:50:25I'm getting it ready for us stacking it
1:50:27okay it should be fine because I haven't
1:50:29got us
1:50:30not sharing the screen yet okay wait
1:50:33there we go I'll let you know as soon as
1:50:35they're back and then I'll share it
1:50:38Joe said OMG she's a narcissistic from
1:50:41heck I'm guessing you mean from hell
1:50:43right don't you love that auto spell she
1:50:46really is oh my word so those are some
1:50:48of the notes I took because the rest of
1:50:50it was just absolutely crazy
1:50:52uh let me just quickly see
1:50:59oh yeah yeah okay okay
1:51:02so someone's saying
1:51:04we you know we're all mostly true
1:51:06crimers
1:51:07and I mean Leticia says to l
1:51:10this lady
1:51:11with a belly full of cash
1:51:13do you know what that means well how's
1:51:15he supposed to know what that means she
1:51:17makes like you know what I mean no I'm
1:51:19not comparing her to Jeffrey Dahmer by
1:51:20any means but Jeffrey Dahmer did that
1:51:22before too when he said to them what the
1:51:25most gruesome details you know what I
1:51:26mean
1:51:27oh
1:51:29um the cops were like no we really don't
1:51:31no of course like barely full of cash
1:51:33they could say that but L is like what
1:51:36so yes
1:51:38her sound volume is on lie
1:51:41yes
1:51:44Felicia welcome to membership
1:51:48tomorrow says the last Nucky time was
1:51:49hilarious I think G was extra tired and
1:51:51giggly I'm actually always very bubbly
1:51:53very giggly in my in my private life so
1:51:55yes you see a little bit more of that um
1:51:57here and there on the member stream so
1:51:59I'm just like oh my word
1:52:00especially when we all get super snarky
1:52:02yes
1:52:04her life story about the pregnant woman
1:52:06would have been hilarious if the
1:52:07situation wasn't so awful I know right
1:52:09okay I hope that this doesn't double
1:52:12play
1:52:13let me just see if it does I just want
1:52:15to play a little intro before we get
1:52:16started
1:52:18wait especially
1:52:23please note that this content is for
1:52:25adults only viewer discretion advised if
1:52:28you haven't yet hit the Subscribe like
1:52:31and share
1:52:32[Music]
1:52:58was that a good one thank you lissy
1:53:00thank you for becoming a member
1:53:03hello to NC it's always nice to see
1:53:05familiar faces always look out for all
1:53:06of you there's a lot of us now here in
1:53:08this community
1:53:10um but I always recognize regular
1:53:12Chatters so thank you so much for being
1:53:13here and welcome to all the new Chatters
1:53:15I hope that you will subscribe hit the
1:53:18Bell so you don't miss the next live
1:53:19stream I'll probably go live again this
1:53:20weekend sometime yes
1:53:23thank you
1:53:26pleasure yes okay
1:53:28nice okay so
1:53:31we're figuring out the problems as we go
1:53:35um Dana says I could feel Al's eyes
1:53:37rolling during that phone call
1:53:38I know right I love how he yawned and
1:53:40how special agent greasing was like that
1:53:42wasn't scripted but at that point it was
1:53:44like oh my word please and he's just
1:53:46like you're on you and she's like you're
1:53:47yawning now
1:53:48and she's like you're being a dick to me
1:53:50because you say um
1:53:52um he's entitled to say um if he wants
1:53:54to okay
1:53:56she's so she's so dramatic in such a
1:53:58liar right
1:54:00uh okay welcome to membership
1:54:05thank you for reminding everyone to hit
1:54:06the like what that does it's not so that
1:54:08you like it's not for me to win some
1:54:10kind of popularity contest that's not
1:54:11what the like is for okay just in case
1:54:13people don't really know what it's for
1:54:14when you hit the like button it tells
1:54:16YouTube damn people like this video
1:54:18Let's show it to more people so that
1:54:20then new people can join us in the chat
1:54:22that's what it's for
1:54:25and maybe they'll like it here and stick
1:54:27around with us and chat with us
1:54:29Sherry series gannon's bio mom going to
1:54:32testify I'm not too sure
1:54:33I'm not sure yeah Angela said Leon was
1:54:36classic that Jon was so classic uh wow
1:54:40remember the story she made up when she
1:54:42was also pregnant supposedly with twins
1:54:44when she
1:54:47they give me a fright when they do this
1:54:49hold on Court's coming back
1:54:58with respect to the uh now
1:55:03um
1:55:05agent cruising yes okay but he's in uh
1:55:08Justified that thesis you know
1:55:11essentially an FBI profiler that uh you
1:55:15know he's got a lot of experience with
1:55:17that he's been an agent for a long time
1:55:19he's mentioned lots of cases he compares
1:55:26a very experienced FBI profiler your
1:55:29honor
1:55:30um under people V Stewart uh
1:55:38Colorado Springs sports uh
1:55:42I would object to any
1:55:44it's in essence or 10 amount
1:55:50the agent
1:55:53I'm talking about we're talking about
1:55:57language of oh well these are grievances
1:55:59that lead to the athlete of violence and
1:56:03stuff like this this is expert testimony
1:56:06and this testimony was uh or this
1:56:10information
1:56:12uh that is being used in this testimony
1:56:14was gained by being an FBI profiler and
1:56:19uh you know regular people related
1:56:21people this isn't a lady opinion they
1:56:23don't go well to go around talking about
1:56:25Pathways to violence as in this
1:56:27grievance language that leads to
1:56:29Pathways to violence this is this is
1:56:32information and testimony that comes
1:56:35from and this directly from being a
1:56:38long-time feo high profile system uh
1:56:42this you know we have this reports about
1:56:45this FBI material it's not endorsed as
1:56:48an expert if we had known that
1:56:53his testimony was going to include just
1:56:56expert FBI profiling type testimony we
1:57:01would have done a Shrek here there's you
1:57:03know a lot of information out there in
1:57:06other reports that you know talk about
1:57:08uh some of the problems with profiling
1:57:12legit it has a lot of holes in it there
1:57:15could be a lot of problems with that so
1:57:18based on that you know I know he's got a
1:57:21lot of good uh relevant information to
1:57:23testify to for the people
1:57:26but them trying to elicit this this
1:57:28Pathways to violence and grievances
1:57:30leading to this and you know this other
1:57:33uh information I think is uh wrong I
1:57:37think it's
1:57:40moreover uh you know
1:57:46convert inflammation and testimony and
1:57:48opinions
1:57:51okay so in summary what I understand is
1:57:53that first of all do you have a citation
1:57:56on Stewart uh I do
1:57:59oh and while you're looking for that
1:58:03um as I understand it the summary
1:58:04essentially of the argument is that Mr
1:58:07grusing was not endorsed to testify as
1:58:10an expert has not provided any
1:58:13um expert reports regarding the pathway
1:58:17to violence which he has referenced
1:58:20um is that accurate and I could clarify
1:58:22one thing okay he actually was endorsed
1:58:25as an expert he was endorsed he was
1:58:27endorsing expert I had filed a motion
1:58:29for expert disclosing for supporting it
1:58:32I'm gonna ask for a summary of their
1:58:34opinions on the basis for them
1:58:36um we were then told that all of the
1:58:38opinions of the expert were provided in
1:58:40the reports nowhere in this agent's
1:58:43reports does he mention anything about
1:58:44FBI profiling or that this was a pathway
1:58:47of violence that this was
1:58:50um grievances or any of this type of
1:58:52information but it's not disclosed in
1:58:55any of his reports
1:58:56um and so we specifically asked for that
1:58:58so we can be prepared for expert
1:59:00testimony
1:59:01um to prevent some of this uh type of
1:59:03information and we're told that any type
1:59:05of information provided in the course
1:59:08okay so now I understand that he was
1:59:11endorsed as an expert but
1:59:14this information was not provided in his
1:59:17expert report he wasn't even we didn't
1:59:20get an expert all we have is his FBI and
1:59:24of course like every other agent
1:59:25engagement and we have no report we have
1:59:28a CD from him but nothing in any of his
1:59:30reports that he was going to give in
1:59:31this type of opinion testimony Mr Allen
1:59:34in your honor just while I have it up in
1:59:36front of me yes the Colorado Supreme
1:59:38Court as I said
1:59:41and
1:59:4655 P third 107. thank you Mr Allen
1:59:50so judge um he was endorsed as an expert
1:59:53obviously didn't move to Heaven
1:59:54qualified as an expert uh in Discovery
1:59:58released his CV which was starts on page
2:00:0245-0168 it's a 24-page
2:00:06um CV which is might be the longest
2:00:09um
2:00:10CV that I've released in Discovery but
2:00:13it's got extensive information about his
2:00:15background and training and and uh
2:00:17things that he's done including things
2:00:19with BAU talking about serial killers
2:00:22all that kind of stuff School shooters
2:00:25Scott Kimball uh investigation and the
2:00:30basis of his testimony has been in in in
2:00:34my intention is to continue to have him
2:00:37testify as to his experience and
2:00:39training and how he is using that in
2:00:42this interview to gain information from
2:00:44this defendant to continue on with this
2:00:47particular interview that's been the
2:00:49entire basis of these types of questions
2:00:50and a grievance is just really somebody
2:00:54feeling like they have a grievance
2:00:55that's all that is there's no
2:00:57specialized training for that
2:00:58necessarily if somebody is complaining
2:01:01about something people understand that
2:01:02to be they think that there's a
2:01:04grievance that they're that they have
2:01:07um we're not asking for expert testimony
2:01:09didn't qualify him him as an expert went
2:01:11through his background because that is
2:01:13important it does inform how he does
2:01:15this interview and I would ask the court
2:01:18to
2:01:19well one I'm not sure exactly what the
2:01:21the objection is from defense because
2:01:23we've had both attorneys talking about
2:01:25it
2:01:25and it's been different
2:01:27um statements from both the defense
2:01:29attorneys and so uh just allow us to
2:01:32continue to to uh go through his direct
2:01:35examination and I'll clarify exactly
2:01:37what my objective is to the degree is
2:01:39testifying as a lay expert his opinion
2:01:42based on a training experience is banned
2:01:44by people with consumers
2:01:46um who'd agree that he is they want to
2:01:49qualify as an expert we have a violation
2:01:51of the course order regarding experts
2:01:55all right
2:01:57um is Agent grusak he is back there okay
2:01:59good
2:02:00um here's how I see this
2:02:02um I did enter an order that required
2:02:05that if the witness were going to
2:02:07provide expert testimony
2:02:09um that a report regarding that expert's
2:02:12testimony uh needed to be provided so
2:02:15that it could be disclosed
2:02:17um I understand that Mr gruesing has
2:02:20been endorsed as an expert he's not
2:02:23being offered as an expert at this point
2:02:25in time but he's been endorsed as an
2:02:27expert
2:02:28um
2:02:29it's not clear to me
2:02:33it appears to me that agent grusing did
2:02:37offer uh some or he's mentioned in the
2:02:39reports or he has some reports but
2:02:41apparently does not have
2:02:43um or did not disclose the opinions that
2:02:47the defense is requesting
2:02:50what I would order uh is I think that
2:02:53agent gruesing needs to stay away from
2:02:55the phrase uh Pathway to violence
2:02:59um I think he can testify as to why he
2:03:02was
2:03:06directing the interrogation in certain
2:03:10manners
2:03:12um I think the issue of him saying well
2:03:14I wanted to keep her talking I don't
2:03:16really know that that's any different
2:03:17than anybody else frankly that's
2:03:19testified here of I was telling her this
2:03:21because I was hoping that I would get
2:03:23her talking
2:03:24at one point
2:03:28I think it was in the video
2:03:32I don't think it was independent
2:03:34testimony from agent gruesing so I think
2:03:36it was in the video at one point he
2:03:38mentioned something about
2:03:40uh the Dylan red wine case but I think
2:03:42that was in the video and he was trying
2:03:44to get the defendant talking about that
2:03:46and trying to explain his experience
2:03:49um I think all of those are appropriate
2:03:51I think it's appropriate for the uh for
2:03:55agent gruesome to say
2:03:58to an extent
2:03:59this is what I was trying to get her to
2:04:02do I think it is inappropriate for agent
2:04:05gruesome and agent gruesome would be
2:04:07prohibited from saying for instance in
2:04:10this case well I was doing this
2:04:13investigation and because of a technique
2:04:15that I learned in the Dylan redwine case
2:04:18this is what I was trying to do here
2:04:19because I think at that point
2:04:22um he's trying a jury could conceive
2:04:25that he based on his education
2:04:27experience and training is equating Ms
2:04:30Stout with Mark redwine and that does
2:04:33not appear to be the case here
2:04:36um so I think that there are things that
2:04:38he can talk about I've not heard him say
2:04:41that even though he is a profiler I did
2:04:44not I'm not yet heard any testimony that
2:04:48he developed a specific profile about
2:04:51the defendant that she had certain
2:04:54characteristics or certain traits which
2:04:57would be consistent with
2:05:01for instance a serial killer or
2:05:03something like that I've not heard any
2:05:04of that I remember we got an objection
2:05:06about that
2:05:07um and uh Mr Allen assured me that we
2:05:10were not going there we have not gone
2:05:12there
2:05:13um so I think that he can say I was
2:05:15trying to get her to talk I was trying
2:05:17to get her and and My Hope was that so
2:05:20long as we didn't directly I I'm not
2:05:23sure it was agent gruesome but somebody
2:05:24at some point in time said
2:05:27um
2:05:28so long as we did not directly accuse
2:05:30her of murdering Gannon we thought we
2:05:34could keep her talking I think that's
2:05:36appropriate
2:05:38um so far I have not seen anything
2:05:42from agent gruesome's testimony that is
2:05:45outside the parameters that I've already
2:05:46mentioned
2:05:48um so while the objection is there
2:05:51um at this point in time it's overruled
2:05:53if it becomes more
2:05:56prevalent where you think you need to
2:05:58Lodge an injection you can and ask to
2:06:01approach and I'll deal with it and the
2:06:02only other thing that we used to at this
2:06:03point in time we are objecting to this
2:06:06agent giving an opinion regarding her
2:06:08sanity under rule 403 and the reason
2:06:11being is we've had a lot of he went in
2:06:14for quite a blank about his training as
2:06:17an FBI profiler as his experience with
2:06:19solar Killers all of this kind of stuff
2:06:22and I think because we've had all of
2:06:24that under 403 I think the jury would
2:06:26give more weight based upon his training
2:06:28and experience and I don't think under
2:06:29403 that's cured even by saying in your
2:06:32lay opinion because I don't know how you
2:06:33take out 20 plus years of FBI profiling
2:06:36to give only opinion on this we've had a
2:06:40plethora of late Witnesses Testify the
2:06:42minister sanity this witness because of
2:06:45the background that was given at the
2:06:47beginning of his testimony
2:06:49um I I just think under 403 I'd ask
2:06:51support for him I'm going to require Mr
2:06:54Allen that you not ask that question
2:06:56until we get to the end of the testimony
2:06:59and then we can take it up then I want
2:07:00to see what other Foundation is laid at
2:07:02that point in time uh regarding his
2:07:05contacts with Ms stalk it appears as
2:07:07primarily this video well no that's not
2:07:09accurate judge if we're saying contacts
2:07:12we've got a plethora of
2:07:15reported phone calls we've admitted 16
2:07:18of them but there's even more than that
2:07:19that we did didn't decide to admit as
2:07:22you know there's some that are over an
2:07:24hour long there's some that are shorter
2:07:25in length
2:07:26we're talking with this interview which
2:07:29is almost five hours long plus all these
2:07:31others that it's uh as far as law
2:07:35enforcement investigators some of the
2:07:37longest contact with this defendant of
2:07:39anybody okay
2:07:41um I want to wait until I get to the end
2:07:43of it direct and before you ask that
2:07:45question ask your approach and then
2:07:46we'll see where we are there I think I
2:07:48understand the issue
2:07:49from the defense is not so much contact
2:07:52as it is because of this Witnesses
2:07:57um
2:07:58background and expertise they may give
2:08:00more weight to his opinion than they
2:08:02would to just a lay opinion so yeah no I
2:08:05I I understand that as as well judge um
2:08:08I think that
2:08:11if if we are making that sort of
2:08:12decision and I can
2:08:15we can talk about this again later but
2:08:16if we're making that sort of decision
2:08:18that based on we're guessing that the
2:08:21jury is going to give a particular
2:08:22witness more credibility or less
2:08:24credibility I think is we're we're
2:08:26invading the province of the jury they
2:08:29get to understand and make those
2:08:31decisions in private in their
2:08:32deliberations and and we should not
2:08:34invade that and I think case law is very
2:08:35clear about that
2:08:38um one last thing judge just so that the
2:08:39record's clear on on the uh
2:08:42Fire cases
2:08:44examples that Mr gruesome gives during
2:08:46the tenancy of this interview and that
2:08:48sort of thing you notice I haven't asked
2:08:50any questions about serial killers or
2:08:52anything like that trying to draw
2:08:54parallels I'm not even asking about
2:08:56prior cases even though it's um
2:08:58prevalent in this particular interview
2:09:00if there were concerns from the defense
2:09:03about those issues and in topics coming
2:09:06up in this interview this interview has
2:09:08been out in Discovery for you know years
2:09:13this is the first time we're hearing
2:09:14about it uh
2:09:16in the midst of trial in the midst of
2:09:18testimony from Mr gruesing and I just
2:09:21think it's improper to do it now under
2:09:24these conditions when there was plenty
2:09:27of opportunity to do it prior to with
2:09:29the caveat that obviously I'm not
2:09:31drawing special attention to these
2:09:32issues it's just going to continue to to
2:09:35flow in this interview okay
2:09:38I'm not
2:09:45that he's inferring some priests as far
2:09:48as the student building saying like the
2:09:50Grievances lead to the pathway of the
2:09:52violence to lead to somebody committing
2:09:54these type of horrible acts that's the
2:09:56kind of opinion test one that with that
2:09:58word objective that I'm noticing she had
2:10:00these Grievances and that would then be
2:10:02a motive for her to commit this type of
2:10:04violent act based upon the creation
2:10:06and it's not all the way there but we're
2:10:09getting to me it's getting pretty close
2:10:11when we're talking about grievances lead
2:10:12to the pathways and that's specific one
2:10:15and we were unaware of it until this
2:10:16point in time I'm not the softening
2:10:18interview technique that's fine and the
2:10:19stuff I need to keep her talking that's
2:10:22fine it's the stuff that's I you know I
2:10:25know this is I've seen this in other
2:10:27people and it seems like he was leading
2:10:28up to this type of thing that's the
2:10:30specific thing that we're on okay all
2:10:33right I think we've all made the
2:10:34argument
2:10:34um I've given us a pathway forward
2:10:37um and that's uh where we will go
2:10:40um uh agent gruesome do you have any
2:10:42questions about the parameters that I
2:10:43expect
2:10:44right are we ready to bring in the jury
2:10:47yes sure yes yes okay let's go ahead and
2:10:50draw Mr Grissom back on the sand yes
2:10:52please uh agent if you have special
2:10:54agent grues I'm sorry it's now Mr
2:10:56gruesome if you wish only if you would
2:10:58resume your feed on the witness stand I
2:11:01remind you that you're still under oath
2:11:35All rights for the jury please
2:12:06thank you may all be seated Court will
2:12:08recall 20 cr1358 people versus Leticia
2:12:11staff record children
2:12:15um with that Mr Allen judge we just need
2:12:17the screen back on right
2:12:23so Mr gruesing
2:12:25um
2:12:26in this next section that we're going to
2:12:28watch which is 25 minutes and 55 seconds
2:12:31through 38 minutes and 28 seconds
2:12:34um you discuss victimology just so the
2:12:36jury understands what victimology is
2:12:37will you explain that
2:12:39it's just simply the study of the victim
2:12:42so for someone
2:12:44like Gannon we just try to find out as
2:12:47much as we can about him to maybe lead
2:12:49us to what happened to him okay we'll
2:12:52start that now at 25 55.
2:12:57good first let's go to Ganon because
2:12:59what we do is called victimology have
2:13:01you heard of that
2:13:03so victimology as we find out as much as
2:13:06we can about again and the victim and
2:13:09even if he's safe somewhere even if he's
2:13:10not knowing more about him especially
2:13:13since you were the last person with him
2:13:16helps us to try to figure out
2:13:19like say we don't have a suspect
2:13:20somebody killed but we have nothing okay
2:13:23then we will look at that person to see
2:13:25what Drew
2:13:26but that homicide that homicide there
2:13:29why did those two people interact at
2:13:31that time and then also do things like
2:13:35it's uh the the subject the situation
2:13:37and the location so something happens
2:13:41gannon's here
2:13:43you have someone or something that is
2:13:46informed and then you have quite a
2:13:47location so we have those three things
2:13:50and you know we've looked through your
2:13:52house and you know done the TFI stuff
2:13:55and looked at all that you know body
2:13:57fluids all over the house and garage and
2:13:59what a girl so that's all been done
2:14:02um I'm curious to see your challenges of
2:14:06Gannon uh here when you had to be a
2:14:09parent and then their challenges the
2:14:12thought is whatever else what special
2:14:13attention did he need what can you tell
2:14:15me about him well here it was he was
2:14:18younger you know um
2:14:25so like here he was more so like um
2:14:29let's see
2:14:31like at that time a situation here okay
2:14:34so prior to that we never got to see him
2:14:36it said like every other kids for a long
2:14:38time all right so then when
2:14:41um Albert we finally pay all the money
2:14:43or whatever
2:14:45Albert had to choose between getting out
2:14:48getting out of
2:14:51sorry getting out of the military or the
2:14:55kids in a way kind of because
2:14:57mom wasn't given any or whatever
2:14:59um so then that's when we step in and
2:15:01say we're gonna
2:15:02keep them here in our home here and I'll
2:15:05stay here with them and then you know
2:15:07we'll go from there right
2:15:09but during that time he also didn't get
2:15:11to see his mom Asia didn't have a place
2:15:13to live
2:15:15she had had a baby but then mainly to
2:15:19her not to not gonna trash her she's
2:15:22amazing
2:15:23she didn't take care we wouldn't take
2:15:25care of them like we should okay with
2:15:27her being pregnant situation so with Mom
2:15:31not having that Foundation support she
2:15:33wasn't able to come to the house a lot
2:15:35and when she did come to the house
2:15:37there's time she came that she was like
2:15:39oh you know
2:15:43she just that wasn't any good place so I
2:15:45let her stay at her home and Gannon had
2:15:48a tough time every time because in his
2:15:50mind he just wanted it to be like a
2:15:52sister you know
2:16:09[Music]
2:16:14when he was here
2:16:17grandparents amazing people which is
2:16:20Landon
2:16:22amazing people Grandma I think
2:16:25Vienna and Poppy great people they would
2:16:28always come get them when we can and
2:16:29think about so that I'd have time to
2:16:31like you know do whatever I needed to do
2:16:33or if I wanted to go shopping you know
2:16:35hang out with people whatever so we had
2:16:37all that you know going on here and
2:16:39these missing piece was you know
2:16:41um
2:16:42Dana would do his schoolwork very smart
2:16:45I think you may always see you in fourth
2:16:46grade I'm pretty sure if you know
2:16:47anything
2:16:48so maid always here didn't have like an
2:16:51issue at all
2:16:53would be like when he got home from
2:16:55school because Albert's out you're
2:16:57having to take care of you well to be
2:16:59honest with you I got him from after
2:17:00school which was about like five five
2:17:02thirtyish so by the time we did homework
2:17:05um all those things it was on the time
2:17:08to like everything are you doing his
2:17:09homework with him is he doing it on his
2:17:11own see the difference between school
2:17:13and I'm not trying to talk about
2:17:14Colorado is in Colorado in South
2:17:17Carolina schools but that's going to do
2:17:18a lot more about history and those other
2:17:21things for colors
2:17:25so he had a he did struggle with history
2:17:27so we had to sit at the table a lot of
2:17:30times and like really work on like do
2:17:32the mathematics
2:17:34so like is that Janet is just like he
2:17:37said he is very mathematically inclined
2:17:39you know an integer type brain so when
2:17:41it came to history and reading science
2:17:44stuff unless it was something like David
2:17:46like so we spent hours sometimes you
2:17:48know working on those things
2:17:49but with knowing the curriculum it was
2:17:51easy
2:17:55until about time we did that it was time
2:17:56for him to go to bed
2:17:58you know
2:18:01that's here yeah then what about in
2:18:03Colorado
2:18:04well when we get to Colorado of course I
2:18:07start them in school which would have
2:18:08been August okay so I thought them in
2:18:12school it was a big help because Gannon
2:18:15is at this point a little bit more
2:18:17maturity he knows he's stay with us
2:18:18because I took an Alaska and
2:18:20homeschooled him before we got to
2:18:21Colorado
2:18:26it was about January that we got here
2:18:29because I homeschooled in November
2:18:30December not of this past time but of
2:18:32the year before okay all right so
2:18:34January 2019. yes I homeschooled in 2018
2:18:39November uh Christmas time because Mom
2:18:42couldn't get them for whatever reason
2:18:44then we came on to um but I think she
2:18:47ended up digging them and she flew them
2:18:48back to Colorado for a week or something
2:18:50she's got it for a week maybe rude about
2:18:52the Colorado I said January 2019. we
2:18:55started school in Colorado Okay okay so
2:18:57get them in school which Colorado I mean
2:19:01things like May middle May Day
2:19:06so it was pretty simple in the terms of
2:19:09we would do like you know uh he never
2:19:12had on work
2:19:13in Colorado for some reason
2:19:15um so it was always Albert would be like
2:19:17make them write their Labs or you know
2:19:23this afternoon what time did you
2:19:25normally get home from school well
2:19:27around that time you went to another
2:19:28school because this Middle School wasn't
2:19:29built okay so it would have been like 3
2:19:3245 4 o'clock maybe just because it
2:19:34hadn't come from
2:19:35and then come in with the
2:19:39thing
2:19:40yeah so they came back in August so we
2:19:43went on Gannon went with us on a big
2:19:44Cruise in the summer because he wanted
2:19:45to you don't want to go
2:19:47right away he wanted we gave him a
2:19:49choice you want to go on family query or
2:19:51you want to go you know do you say you
2:19:54want to go to church
2:19:59we him Harley and Alex those are the
2:20:03four of us Lena didn't go so we all went
2:20:05on the same recruit and had a great time
2:20:08whatever and of course they come here
2:20:10for the summer
2:20:11and then they get ready to come back for
2:20:12fall so they come back for fall and at
2:20:15this point in time I was I was working
2:20:17Albert was doing like you know she has
2:20:20like three you had your teaching job yes
2:20:23three two three two he's not working
2:20:25well
2:20:27[Music]
2:20:29um Harley was working at me and starting
2:20:31Pike P college so we were all pretty
2:20:34busy like throughout the day and then
2:20:37evening it was kind of like come in grab
2:20:40this grab this but then I was coaching
2:20:41so everybody
2:20:44so as I was after school at the high
2:20:47school so as I was coaching softball you
2:20:50know um I probably didn't get home
2:20:52sometimes until like
2:20:55maybe sometimes later just depending on
2:20:57if it was a game a practice or something
2:20:59like that so honestly most of the a lot
2:21:02of the help had to come from either
2:21:04Harley doing a lot of it if Albert was
2:21:06working or Gannon had to independently
2:21:09like you know do a lot of what we can
2:21:11film how did he get home which they were
2:21:13teaching at this point time they were in
2:21:14the new school right so the new school
2:21:16because we lived 1.5 miles out the new
2:21:19school allowed him to
2:21:21if not they had the rest of the way they
2:21:24had them okay
2:21:26um so
2:21:28coaching was over you know probably
2:21:31around it's weird because they didn't
2:21:33stop all right
2:21:36the coaching was over maybe around so
2:21:38whatever
2:21:39you know Canon started having a hard
2:21:41time because he was wanting to go home
2:21:42for Thanksgiving
2:21:45when I tell you again he loves Disney on
2:21:47us like that too
2:21:48because of him he was he'll just
2:21:52all the time because he loves Nina
2:21:55um so
2:21:56he like wanted to go because he has two
2:21:59boy cousins if you know again and four
2:22:01sisters and he doesn't have any brothers
2:22:04so he in his way those two little boys
2:22:07are here like his brothers
2:22:09so if he goes to Nana's house you know
2:22:10he can been a lot of time with his
2:22:12little cousins
2:22:15and then they can all just hang out
2:22:18he didn't get to go for things Albert
2:22:21had to work so we kind of I don't really
2:22:23cook it's always like eating out okay so
2:22:27I just said Hey listen you know we'll go
2:22:30out to dinner we do all this
2:22:31Thanksgiving try to make it up the best
2:22:33that I could get because I'm not I'm not
2:22:36his mom but
2:22:37he wanted to be there with the team you
2:22:41know because the holidays
2:22:44and then of course Christmas came around
2:22:47and they kind of happened at Christmas
2:22:48but then we worked it out and I figured
2:22:51on a plan to get him home for Christmas
2:22:54bananas for Christmas yeah because mom
2:22:57never had
2:22:58how how so Albert said it's okay if they
2:23:03go and then
2:23:06that was our biggest worry like
2:23:09have you ever been here before today
2:23:10okay so like if you like look on the
2:23:13Boulevard and things like that there's a
2:23:15lot of like
2:23:16like not the best places and that was
2:23:18where they were saying it wasn't me you
2:23:20know when they would come and so that
2:23:21was why they were like no right okay
2:23:26but then is again responsible for taking
2:23:29his own he has ADHD medicine right does
2:23:32he do that on his own do you help him
2:23:33with that
2:23:35um most of the time like how this how it
2:23:37worked and I got all lunch boxes ready
2:23:38that a mom I've been in the house super
2:23:40soaked up in the corner by the
2:23:43refrigerator
2:23:44The Lunchbox is out snacks and let them
2:23:47pick can I use all these people for
2:23:49Elena because he just knew that he could
2:23:51get if he beat her up he could pick a
2:23:53snacks he wanted you know so if he would
2:23:55pick the snacks that he wanted and I
2:23:57would lay him he's Albert wasn't getting
2:24:00him up obviously his Aviation Finance 20
2:24:03milligrams I related Finance
2:24:06is it just tablet yeah okay yeah so I
2:24:10was laid on the counter and he would
2:24:11know you know come in and take it how
2:24:13does he take it is with water yeah yeah
2:24:16he doesn't even use word half the time
2:24:18right he's taking the 16
2:24:21. okay
2:24:22is there any other that he's on or no no
2:24:26I think when they were when he was like
2:24:28five they like tried one medicine but
2:24:30vyvance worked like that was the
2:24:33any of the other kids on meditation
2:24:38yeah
2:24:40what about the URL I don't know anything
2:24:43other than what I told you about
2:24:46the Lorazepam but see the thing about
2:24:47Lorazepam was they might give it to me
2:24:49and I might not get it again
2:24:52is there any tablets but it was only for
2:24:55like panic attacks everything
2:24:57all right Albert I know he has the gout
2:24:59how do I know me
2:25:02I'm sure it's nothing exactly but
2:25:04nothing that he could again and could
2:25:06mix up meditations with or whatever but
2:25:08everybody else was mad or anything not
2:25:11not that I'm worried now there's stuff
2:25:12in the counter from like probably old
2:25:14stuff
2:25:16you know like uh Harley had a wisdom
2:25:18teeth taken out I think but I'm pretty
2:25:20sure
2:25:24um but none of us had like any like uh
2:25:33so in that particular uh recounting of
2:25:37um
2:25:39you lead into asking challenges with
2:25:42Ganon again
2:25:44from your perspective does she appear to
2:25:46be able to recount things and and have
2:25:49strong memory recall ability yeah she
2:25:51walked us through uh his childhood South
2:25:54Carolina Alaska Colorado when he got
2:25:56home from school
2:25:58um
2:25:59what courses he did well and what
2:26:01courses he struggled in so yes
2:26:05it sound like fairly normal family life
2:26:08they did
2:26:10you ask about uh bath salts in the hike
2:26:13from Sunday January 26th yes so let's
2:26:16jump to that section it's going to be
2:26:18from this point up to 43 30.
2:26:22I'm asking you that because of the math
2:26:24soft feel that he came up with you know
2:26:25that was on the hype day so the bath
2:26:28salt thing was just totally because they
2:26:31did this drug class
2:26:32which is the same time
2:26:36before these people came in and they
2:26:38dressed up in like a dress they were
2:26:41proficient they are a little person they
2:26:44dress in their outfits and all those
2:26:46things and they let the kids like
2:26:48pretend they were working on
2:26:51whatever they call it you know like out
2:26:53of this everyone CPR and you're in that
2:26:56time frame they went over all these
2:26:58different drugs so they talked about
2:27:00what what your life is on crack they
2:27:02talked about like all these like it was
2:27:05very
2:27:06very like in-depth for fifth grade but
2:27:08at the same time you guys think it was
2:27:10probably a good thing to
2:27:13you know again I'm telling you about
2:27:15that or did you find out from a teacher
2:27:17or how did you find out they had this
2:27:19in-depth conversation well I knew
2:27:20because they did at our school first
2:27:22so they did all right we didn't ask me
2:27:24first that it was something once they
2:27:26found out they did at our school and
2:27:27they saw like all the cool pictures to
2:27:29them that other teachers wanted to know
2:27:31about it so we know the teachers want to
2:27:33know about it they you know went around
2:27:35different schools and they found
2:27:37I think Albert signed a permission slip
2:27:39or maybe sent an email to the teacher or
2:27:40whatever that it was okay for him
2:27:46how did that conversation happen because
2:27:49I know that seemed to be important
2:27:51you know during the hike and afterwards
2:27:53well it was like okay so
2:27:59apparently
2:28:00we deliver these
2:28:03we never knew what they were saying we
2:28:04were told whatever we don't know but
2:28:07Albert would always talk to um Gannon
2:28:10about any kind of people had anything
2:28:15he would always say like these are bad
2:28:18people think like this this is bad
2:28:20things so Gannon already had like some
2:28:23sort of uh face summation
2:28:26you know and because he had like like
2:28:30that sort of based Foundation
2:28:32he always had like uh questions because
2:28:38like right and that was
2:28:41that was that was always something
2:28:42because
2:28:45baby notebook
2:28:49that was like his maintenance
2:28:52like wanting to know these things
2:28:54because he he was just curious of how
2:28:57like
2:28:59but were you guys on the hike when he
2:29:01brought it up or were we he had already
2:29:03brought it up prior to the hype he had
2:29:05already said something when he came home
2:29:07after this was it a concern for you tell
2:29:11me what he said and how your
2:29:12conversation you know honestly sir I
2:29:14don't remember I just remember he was
2:29:15telling us about
2:29:17the different things that they were
2:29:18talking about
2:29:19and then I was like oh did you guys do
2:29:21this and then he was like yeah
2:29:23so it kind of like mimiced the same way
2:29:25but we did talk about that a lot
2:29:27was that before height you said yeah
2:29:30leading up to it before the hike there
2:29:32was a lot of talk about it you know for
2:29:34a little bit and then of course
2:29:36um
2:29:42[Music]
2:29:45like he really wanted to try these
2:29:47things like I didn't think anything
2:29:49about him wanting to try any of it
2:29:55do anything with the
2:29:57um know that he
2:29:59said something about it and I gave him a
2:30:01bath
2:30:02when he said something what'd he say he
2:30:05just asked me about in general about if
2:30:07we have basketball because to be honest
2:30:09with you here and pooped how many times
2:30:11as he said that after he pooped on the
2:30:14hike he moved a couple of times yeah
2:30:17like I want to think I don't mean life
2:30:22just a little bit right right right and
2:30:26so it was the whole thing about folks
2:30:28was just I think you just wanted to like
2:30:29relax because it took two you know
2:30:31taking two baths
2:30:35I don't want to be weird but are you
2:30:37giving him vows is he taking it and then
2:30:40goes by himself and
2:30:43be very like helpful independent like
2:30:46I've taught him so many independent
2:30:48skills where he can go in there and just
2:30:51now don't forget to like bring his
2:30:54clothes off or you know the simple
2:30:56things like that
2:30:58because so he he takes two baths that
2:31:02night or one bath that night one the
2:31:04next morning or
2:31:11um
2:31:18and then she took one
2:31:20somehow
2:31:24so Mr grossing in that um
2:31:27portion of the interview we're talking
2:31:29about the hike and bath salts again did
2:31:32she appear to have uh ability to recall
2:31:34those details as well yes is that
2:31:36markedly different than when you're
2:31:38talking about trying to get details as
2:31:40to what happened again yes in what way
2:31:44she's comfortable talking and as you
2:31:47mentioned she's giving details and she
2:31:49can clearly remember what was going on
2:31:51just even from her
2:31:53uh
2:31:55comfort in talking to me
2:31:57and this is from what she's describing
2:32:00here is from the hike that occurred on
2:32:01on the afternoon of January 26th of
2:32:042020. yes
2:32:07did you ask her about
2:32:09um what does it look like if her and
2:32:11gainan argue yes so let's jump to that
2:32:13section we're going to jump to just a
2:32:16little bit ahead 44 minutes and 45
2:32:18seconds
2:32:32and we'll play this through 49 minutes
2:32:34and 12 seconds
2:32:35so what does an argument look like again
2:32:37have you guys ever argued um
2:32:43but then like we had we're so much alike
2:32:45so we are so much like in terms of we
2:32:48both have stomach problems
2:32:50we both have like
2:32:52anxiety so like you should speak you
2:32:55know and uh he's so like he's so good
2:32:59kind in like uh
2:33:02um
2:33:03kind-hearted to and then the point of
2:33:05like we can get upset about something
2:33:07but then the next minute she'll be like
2:33:09I am she'll be like oh
2:33:12look about something
2:33:13we'll just say something or we have
2:33:17tremendously increased amount
2:33:21in Myrtle Beach I don't think
2:33:25I love you or like you know like
2:33:31holiday might come you know
2:33:35but like since having him all the time
2:33:38it became more like I I was here I love
2:33:41you
2:33:42all the time you know and so I felt like
2:33:46it was on the holiday the Christmas
2:33:47before is that what you're saying he
2:33:49disappeared you right now and you sat
2:33:51around the holiday he was saying I love
2:33:53you I'm saying like once Yeah well yeah
2:33:55once we started more and more having
2:33:58been he and I became a lot closer
2:34:01because of just like wanting to have
2:34:05that connection with both the kids sure
2:34:08you have some arguments did you ever
2:34:11have to discipline him or no well I
2:34:12never ever have never spanked any of
2:34:15each other ever because I just don't
2:34:16believe in thinking of
2:34:19it so we've never had that now far is
2:34:21like okay you are in trouble you're
2:34:22gonna do this yeah
2:34:24any kid with any other website what's
2:34:27the biggest disagreement you had with
2:34:28Canon
2:34:30the the biggest disagreement
2:34:35probably because
2:34:37it doesn't
2:34:39and again he probably shouldn't have
2:34:40this on him but not like see in the
2:34:44light
2:34:48I'll get home he was so like
2:34:52forgiving uh it's okay mommy don't have
2:34:55money
2:34:56you know
2:34:58if I said anything like well and I
2:35:01probably shouldn't have but I did I
2:35:03would be like well she quit doing this
2:35:05we could she could pay for it and I
2:35:07would always figure out a way but then
2:35:10it was like
2:35:11you know I'd say I wanted him to see
2:35:14that that's a certain Instinct incident
2:35:16do I know the biggest disagreement you
2:35:19had was this at a certain time like big
2:35:22like there was never any like a big
2:35:25all-out
2:35:27when you say disagreement clashes or
2:35:30like screaming shouting so I've had mine
2:35:35like that kind of disagreement but never
2:35:37not like uh so what's the most upset
2:35:40you've been
2:35:42or you've had to yell
2:35:43and yell at my kids I got you a
2:35:45teacher's fan so like where we've had to
2:35:46like fuss at each other over whether or
2:35:49not he did something if he did something
2:35:52that has to happen
2:35:54I'm saying I thought you
2:35:58point of view I'm not judging you no I
2:36:00thought you were asked
2:36:02[Music]
2:36:04like whipping
2:36:07Resort no what's the most intense time
2:36:10you've had this game and as far as
2:36:11you're yelling he's yelling that sort of
2:36:14thing that had to have happened
2:36:15especially with that kid I mean yeah of
2:36:18course
2:36:19what time do you remember
2:36:23probably times that I don't remember
2:36:26sometimes I'd say all vlogs around
2:36:28Albert
2:36:29might not be in disciplined no when
2:36:33Gannon was just doing something that's
2:36:34totally irrational and unreasonable I
2:36:36have a boy I know yeah they don't behave
2:36:39all the time right again
2:36:42building like specifics I just know that
2:36:45we would have you know like if it would
2:36:47have been something that wasn't in what
2:36:49our teaching where we would
2:36:51of course yeah so you never heard that
2:36:53yelling that you remember I said I just
2:36:55said I just said that to you I said I
2:36:57there have been plenty of times yeah but
2:36:59I mean a specific one
2:37:03um
2:37:04so Mr gruesing in that portion of the
2:37:07interview when you're asking about the
2:37:08biggest disagreement that she had with
2:37:10Ganon she referenced
2:37:12um
2:37:13ganon's mother uh did ganon's mother and
2:37:16the relationship again and had with his
2:37:18mother become a fairly consistent theme
2:37:20as it relates to her feeling like she
2:37:23wasn't getting credit
2:37:25she mentioned that a couple of times yes
2:37:27okay
2:37:30and in that particular one
2:37:32um
2:37:33she mentioned uh that he's very
2:37:35forgiving to his mom and she wanted she
2:37:39being the defendant wanted Ganon to see
2:37:41that his mom wasn't doing the right
2:37:42things yes almost uh seeming to want to
2:37:46discredit ganon's own mother
2:37:48correct in gannon's eyes yes okay
2:37:53did you ask um or did she eventually
2:37:56give a description of
2:37:58um again and being in a very upset rage
2:38:00and having some sort of a knife or box
2:38:02cutter she did all right let's jump to
2:38:05that section and we're jumping ahead
2:38:06about a minute so 50 minutes and 10
2:38:09seconds
2:38:20and we're gonna play it to 55-32
2:38:24Jenna wouldn't like yell back
2:38:26Gannon would not like yell back and be
2:38:29like uh you know like
2:38:31confrontational
2:38:33so again it would not explain
2:38:36he might say something smart how did he
2:38:38react I'm very impressed do you have an
2:38:40incident you remember or no then you had
2:38:43to put your foot down and say again and
2:38:44that's not acceptable no like if I said
2:38:47that he pretty much listened to to what
2:38:50I said yeah with my not I don't remember
2:38:53us can screaming back at me I mean or
2:38:56just going to his room slamming the door
2:38:57situation anything like that
2:39:00um indoor room and sleep
2:39:05north of beef like saying something that
2:39:08Albert might have been more of the if
2:39:11there was Landing doors
2:39:13however you need to make sure he's not
2:39:16doing this and then
2:39:17you know Brooklyn during that situation
2:39:21like Albert was teaching him how to use
2:39:23her
2:39:25a box cutter and like different things
2:39:27like that and there were times that I
2:39:29might have been like oh Albert I don't
2:39:31think you should have done this because
2:39:33he was acting weird in this way but that
2:39:35would have been early in the beginning
2:39:37before we started getting in like
2:39:38counseling but once he started getting
2:39:41you know like that remind me the
2:39:43counseling what was that for do what now
2:39:44the counseling
2:39:46um so Albert said that he should get
2:39:48counseling uh through the military just
2:39:51for like all the Transitions and being
2:39:53in and out of school all the different
2:39:55things like that just to make sure that
2:39:57his uh mental well-being was fine and
2:40:00Albert said that anytime he would you
2:40:03know of course counselors can't tell you
2:40:05what was going on unless it was
2:40:07something you know pressing and of
2:40:09course Albert would always come out and
2:40:11say that so everything's fine and then
2:40:13Daniel will come back and tell us what
2:40:14he talked about
2:40:15but as far as like
2:40:17that again I never come at you with a
2:40:20knife or something wasn't there an
2:40:21incident well that's what I was just
2:40:23telling you about there was when Albert
2:40:25I told you Albertson teach him how to
2:40:27use uh that's the box cutter the box
2:40:28code yeah so he the Gannon had this
2:40:32thing about the knife and he was doing
2:40:34like this and whoever told you that it
2:40:36was coming at me that was not
2:40:40no no no no no
2:40:43no you've got stories from everywhere
2:40:44and you probably are not looking at me
2:40:46for mine but my but that is not what
2:40:48happened again it was in a upset which
2:40:50the video was shown to the counselor
2:40:53lady and Albert was so upset he was like
2:40:57you should have let me get the video or
2:40:59something like that but Gannon was in
2:41:01more like a an upset rage because this
2:41:04was in the very beginning when he had to
2:41:06First transition against tweet yet
2:41:08another school was this fall no so this
2:41:11would have been I don't know if it had
2:41:12been fall but okay so fourth grade New
2:41:14School uh
2:41:19then they went to the first School in
2:41:21Colorado and then a new school opened
2:41:22correct so somewhere between that time
2:41:24frame of again it was it was too much
2:41:27transition
2:41:28we're in that had nothing to do with him
2:41:30being mad at me or being that Albert or
2:41:32Landon and whatever it was too much
2:41:34transitions for him that he was so upset
2:41:36like you know like there must be when he
2:41:39was doing this yeah
2:41:46that was a while ago I don't remember I
2:41:49mean were you threatened by again doing
2:41:51that it makes me nervous well I told
2:41:53Albert I said it I said have a mentality
2:41:56like in my mind I said it has a
2:41:58mentality of like he's going to want to
2:42:00not hurt
2:42:02and so we're not going to statistically
2:42:04hurt someone in general but I mean
2:42:06specific but in general and so like I
2:42:09was a little worried because I thought
2:42:13we have so much anger and aggression for
2:42:17what was going on because it it honestly
2:42:20was Albert hadn't even got there yet I
2:42:22feel like I feel like Albert had just
2:42:24either got to Colorado or hadn't got
2:42:26there yet right and so he had to go from
2:42:30being with his mom back to me and then
2:42:32Albert wasn't there and then it was
2:42:36okay like I got to go to I got a Sunday
2:42:39school I gotta get make new friends you
2:42:42know like all those things how did you
2:42:43handle it how did you calm them down
2:42:50I don't I don't know it was a knife he
2:42:54had then I was just saying my key had
2:42:55been used in the Box Putters and that's
2:42:57how he like
2:42:59so I remember his immediate because he
2:43:01loves amiibos
2:43:03and I took his amiibo and I just threw
2:43:05his his amiibo out the front yard and I
2:43:08told him I was like we're not that the
2:43:11amiibo's gone we're never getting it
2:43:12again and I made him call his mom and so
2:43:15she I don't remember
2:43:18but I know she was basically saying like
2:43:21you know you better listen she gets
2:43:23upset since via message I sent her a
2:43:25message back and we both like mad at
2:43:28each other as an Indian landing and then
2:43:30it was kind of more like okay it's
2:43:32calmed down but this was
2:43:34right a year ago you know um so that
2:43:38that was the but just that it was we
2:43:41needed
2:43:43Outlet he needed that Council well that
2:43:46helps us
2:43:48so pausing you that 55 minutes and 32
2:43:50seconds again
2:43:52um
2:43:53she's showing a good ability to recall
2:43:55on different events that have occurred
2:43:57during her time with Gannon she is
2:44:00she says that there's some video of some
2:44:04knife or box cutter incident did you
2:44:06ever see such a video I did not do you
2:44:08know if one even actually existed no
2:44:15was there a portion of the uh interview
2:44:16that you did with her where she relates
2:44:20to you that she had somehow convinced
2:44:21Ganon to call her different names
2:44:23yes
2:44:25um the way that she's talking about that
2:44:27with you did that um seem like that was
2:44:29a calculated move on her part meaning
2:44:30that she's trying to convince Keenan to
2:44:34do this yes okay
2:44:36let's jump to that that's going to start
2:44:38at 57 minutes and 15 seconds
2:44:48and we'll play it through 57 minutes and
2:44:5147 seconds
2:44:58it's so hard because
2:45:01if I get up in the morning and I
2:45:06Dana would even say you want me to take
2:45:08the dogs out so you can have 10 more
2:45:10minutes of sleep and he I convinced him
2:45:12into change
2:45:14like calling me a different name
2:45:17I didn't ever like my vagina we're
2:45:20calling you different
2:45:22um so
2:45:23the helpfulness
2:45:26so as it relates to those
2:45:28um that different names that she's
2:45:29referring to the reason that she gives
2:45:31in the interview was because she didn't
2:45:33like her original name that's right did
2:45:35she ever talk about that in any other
2:45:37time
2:45:38um either on those phone calls that you
2:45:39were a part of or even during this
2:45:41interview about how she would go with
2:45:43any go as a different person or a
2:45:45different name not that I was a part of
2:45:46no
2:45:48um did this appear to be the way she's
2:45:50describing it a voluntary act on her
2:45:52behalf
2:45:53um to get Ganon to call her a different
2:45:54name because she didn't like her
2:45:56original name yes
2:46:01did you ask her about the um candle
2:46:03incident in the fire in the in the
2:46:05basement in keeping Gannon home I did
2:46:08why'd you ask about that
2:46:11we as investigative team were very
2:46:13unclear on what happened with the candle
2:46:15incident and she ascribed a lot of
2:46:19injuries to Gannon including uh burns on
2:46:23his arms blood that sort of thing so I
2:46:25wanted to see how she would talk about
2:46:27it to me okay so we'll jump to that
2:46:30section next and we're going to jump to
2:46:32one hour and one minute and 20 seconds
2:46:34and play through one hour 26 minutes and
2:46:3658 seconds
2:46:49uh the candle incident
2:46:51can you tell me about that okay so Annan
2:46:55wanted to I don't remember if he wanted
2:46:58to stay up 30 minutes I can't remember
2:47:00there was something he did that allowed
2:47:02him to earn some extra time but there
2:47:04was something he did but Albert had
2:47:06grounded in from playing a switch but it
2:47:10wasn't allowed to you know play a switch
2:47:11or whatever he have a little kid
2:47:18well on the hike earlier that day he was
2:47:21so helpful with me when people think you
2:47:24know they give me so whatever but they
2:47:26were stomach issues and still have to
2:47:27operate but he was so helpful with uh
2:47:31taking care of the dogs or something and
2:47:33I had told scanners
2:47:36you know
2:47:38yeah
2:47:43so we sat around and
2:47:46you know we had like before we left over
2:47:49and I'm just like crying
2:47:52like he didn't know who that was like he
2:47:55knew the names but not the grew up in
2:47:56like my generation to like know who that
2:47:58was so we just sat there and like talked
2:48:01about it and I told him like you know
2:48:02Kobe huh that came the start of her
2:48:06leading and the chance of being like Oh
2:48:08you know like me I have our sisters and
2:48:10so you know we were talking about that
2:48:12and in between some of those questions
2:48:13why have they been certain questions
2:48:15that led to what he was asking me about
2:48:18what went on
2:48:19school
2:48:21and so that led into on the walk on the
2:48:24hike that day about what we talked about
2:48:26so then that evening I don't remember
2:48:28what he did but I remember I said we had
2:48:2930 minutes of something extra and I knew
2:48:32it wasn't his um Nintendo and things
2:48:34like that at the time because he wasn't
2:48:35supposed to earn that back until the
2:48:36next day
2:48:38um
2:48:39until then
2:48:41it we had I think I was upstairs when
2:48:44you know probably wasn't here
2:48:48but I had to work until I think
2:48:54[Music]
2:48:54um
2:48:56Bannon had
2:48:59people he would do something else so I
2:49:01go back upstairs then I hear the machine
2:49:04was saying like beep beep beep like it
2:49:07was coming in now okay so I put the code
2:49:10in thinking
2:49:12the last alarm came up then or no no
2:49:19um so then you I go back Marlena with
2:49:22that and I see she's thinking of
2:49:24something but not really and then um but
2:49:27she had like the cover over her head a
2:49:29little bit like she was doing like
2:49:31whatever
2:49:32and so then I hear the things saying
2:49:35fire is it actually say fine
2:49:38so that was the crazy thing because I
2:49:40never had heard I didn't know what I
2:49:43thought it would just be like that right
2:49:45like a Sirens but I don't know if it was
2:49:46the
2:49:49it was an actual
2:49:54um but it was just like fire fire
2:49:58um but then I run back in there and I
2:50:00looked
2:50:01like Joe I don't think I'm gonna look
2:50:03downstairs
2:50:06and it was just it was still going so I
2:50:08grabbed Lena I tell you exactly wrong
2:50:11but I'm pretty sure I grabbed Lena first
2:50:12I got the dog
2:50:16in the Top Lane don't put me on that but
2:50:18I'm sure it was in that order so yeah
2:50:19and we run out to the truck I feel like
2:50:24either open the door I don't remember
2:50:26somehow they get to to the truth okay
2:50:29um and then I run back downstairs
2:50:30because at this point I already known
2:50:32that they're but
2:50:34and so I run back downstairs and I went
2:50:36downstairs Indiana was awake but not
2:50:39away like you know how you can almost
2:50:40like be asleep but not asleep
2:50:47right right so um and so like when I
2:50:52pull the cover I pulled Ganon with the
2:50:54cover and so at this point in time then
2:50:57I put the fire that's out what did the
2:51:00fire look like
2:51:01[Music]
2:51:07uh I feel like it was on like on the
2:51:09covers
2:51:10when the covers was the cover on the
2:51:12sofa though or was it on the floor
2:51:15I don't remember I just remember it was
2:51:21[Music]
2:51:28wasn't you know color or
2:51:31something's the hottest and then you
2:51:34have stuff if stuff gets involved in the
2:51:36fire you have a yellowish or reddish
2:51:38color I don't remember I don't remember
2:51:39I don't remember oh can you show me how
2:51:41tall it was like
2:51:43it wasn't tall
2:51:47[Music]
2:51:48I don't wanna
2:51:50so a fire is going to freak you out
2:51:52right yeah so I when I pulled a cover I
2:51:55pull
2:51:57him with the cover to you and we run out
2:51:59did you put amplifier or no
2:52:03I know that we took the covers both of
2:52:05them when he sees what's going on we
2:52:07took the covers and like we smashed down
2:52:11like on it yeah because my own thought
2:52:13was oxygen put it out
2:52:20did it take a lot to put it out or no or
2:52:24did you just smother it and then move
2:52:26or was it from in between you were there
2:52:30what now something in between you know
2:52:31I'm not trying to put words in your
2:52:33mouth something in between like in
2:52:35between just it happened real quick
2:52:36because you had to fight it for a while
2:52:38or oh it wasn't like fighting for a
2:52:40while like there was already a bunch of
2:52:41covers on the side that we had I had
2:52:43grabbed them all and put it in here
2:52:46by the whole covers
2:52:48all the paperwork so I was like stuff
2:52:51there and then I run and he's running
2:52:54behind me so as I'm running up
2:52:58make chips or whatever but he's right
2:53:00behind me but then I think I exited
2:53:06exit
2:53:08I'm saying like I think I I think I
2:53:10exited back out the garage
2:53:13um because I feel like I just ran back
2:53:15to that door I'm not I'm not 100
2:53:16positive I know we ran out then Gana
2:53:18runs right right out behind me and when
2:53:22um I'm I turned around and I I'm saying
2:53:24something to him because I'm like hey
2:53:26because in my mind I don't remember if I
2:53:29had gotten the dogs even though I had
2:53:31already I'd grabbed the dogs and so like
2:53:33he's I don't remember what we were
2:53:35saying but we were all in the frame you
2:53:37know whatever he jumped in the drivers
2:53:40I'm sorry passenger side and I'm in the
2:53:42driver's side of the truck okay Elena is
2:53:46in the back and at that point we juggle
2:53:49so we drive off for I don't know
2:53:54you drop it but there's no gas oh was
2:53:56anybody burned tonight so again you were
2:53:58again Gannon had oh like Bill Burns on
2:54:01his arms uh from that
2:54:03and then
2:54:04um but at the time again will always
2:54:07leave with like his uh either right
2:54:10anywhere else or like or like something
2:54:13like that so
2:54:14um at the time when we ran out I feel
2:54:17like did you have a shirt I don't
2:54:18remember see God be sure to grab another
2:54:19cover
2:54:21but I knew that he had some birds on his
2:54:24arm but I know they weren't like they
2:54:27weren't bad like friends that were bad
2:54:29they were just like uh
2:54:31whatever or they discolored that was it
2:54:35again reddish pinkish what was it did
2:54:37you see it then or not no it was not
2:54:39until later that I really like paid
2:54:41attention and should have
2:54:45because I did later on
2:54:48but um so yeah so like our arms I mean
2:54:53um his arms and then we get into the
2:54:55truck or whatever
2:54:56so then we come back
2:54:59and so I'm of course and like I text
2:55:02hardly I text Albert you know what
2:55:04happened and I said what happened so
2:55:09Harley this is what happened don't paint
2:55:10at me come over the house at this point
2:55:11how we get back in so I was like nothing
2:55:13but smoke
2:55:15and so nothing but smoke at this point
2:55:17in time and it was just like I couldn't
2:55:19get to smoke out even opening up the
2:55:22like Windows
2:55:23and all these things
2:55:26and that was
2:55:28so what happened with these covers that
2:55:31you used to put out the plane
2:55:33well the covers were either last mayor I
2:55:37remember getting the stuff some of the
2:55:39stuff and putting outside in the trash
2:55:41can which I even showed the people when
2:55:43they got there Josh came you guys have I
2:55:46think of their trash cans for each house
2:55:48there or just you have a dumpster or
2:55:51what really like it's a big trucks this
2:55:53is a big round it's one of the real ones
2:55:55yeah
2:55:57it was just one of those
2:56:00there was no one was like whatever but
2:56:07we did want our
2:56:13but we maybe like had updated a little
2:56:16bit to Albert because we were like
2:56:18thinking you know like
2:56:24whatever
2:56:26you know like whatever so my message the
2:56:28Albert probably was a little bit like
2:56:32a little more over exaggeration
2:56:35when you say we did you talk with the
2:56:37kids about let's get Albert home no no
2:56:39we we did sit down and because when I
2:56:42was asking him like was this you know
2:56:44did you do this on accident was this
2:56:46accident you know whatever
2:56:48and so we were just talking about you
2:56:51know like the whole thing everybody was
2:56:53in one room
2:56:54we're all in the bedroom at the time
2:56:56which was our bedroom upstairs okay so
2:56:59we were all in the middle upstairs
2:57:05you know whatever and I thought I got to
2:57:06let your daddy know
2:57:08I was not going to tell him
2:57:10it was not telling it was just to fix it
2:57:13I'm not telling because then I was like
2:57:15if I just do that and we don't have to
2:57:18we don't have to worry about it right
2:57:19but then that was just enough
2:57:24it was hard like you know always all of
2:57:29us was there going through all these
2:57:31memories and doing all these things
2:57:35so that was so did again and agree that
2:57:39was a good idea to kind of play it up a
2:57:41little bit did he agree yeah we all we
2:57:44are in like an agreeance so how did you
2:57:46play it up was the fire really not that
2:57:48big and you made it like it was a big
2:57:50deal or well so whenever I'll just say
2:57:54hey maybe I should get back home when we
2:57:55were explaining it
2:57:59that was our whole life oh my God
2:58:02[Music]
2:58:04you saw that like if the people should
2:58:07be made it more like a
2:58:10situation like then what it no matter
2:58:13really was
2:58:14yeah because I couldn't understand how a
2:58:16candle could make a big fire because my
2:58:18wife's candles all the time around the
2:58:20house and it needs to knock them over
2:58:22and if you knock it over kind of nothing
2:58:24happens yeah and then it might send to
2:58:26the carpet a little bit yeah
2:58:28I've seen the pictures and I'm surprised
2:58:30that you know that much of the carpet
2:58:32was burned well it was probably because
2:58:34I mean I don't know but I know that we
2:58:36did go like push down on the carpet and
2:58:38it was covered we took the cover was
2:58:40wrapped up on you right so I mean I
2:58:43don't know like that's what I was just
2:58:45curious about
2:58:46the burn itself on the carpet because
2:58:48that was awfully big for a candle I
2:58:50didn't think that would be fake was that
2:58:52anything yeah I mean it's not big for a
2:58:54candle because like I said my wife we
2:58:56look like a church sometimes with all
2:58:59the candles sea life yeah we have dogs
2:59:01running around yeah yeah no it was I was
2:59:03just surprised the candle could make you
2:59:05know a big black thing in the carpal
2:59:08tunnel said it might have been held
2:59:09there for a little while maybe he tried
2:59:11to set yeah I don't know
2:59:14[Music]
2:59:17perfectly
2:59:18like set something on fire I don't know
2:59:21I know that he did tell me later that he
2:59:23thought that I was coming downstairs
2:59:25and he had to play this game so he was
2:59:28playing this game when he knocked the
2:59:29candle over yeah so he did tell us he
2:59:31told me and Lena and all of this stuff
2:59:34we were all talking together
2:59:37thought I was coming downstairs
2:59:39I could get you on his game
2:59:43I don't
2:59:44know if he accidentally or thought you
2:59:48know whatever I just know he said that
2:59:50he thought but does he take any
2:59:51responsibility for knocking the candle
2:59:53over or did it just play have happened
2:59:55or what no he did say that he did say
2:59:58that he had he had done it that he had
3:00:00started
3:00:01it and I asked that's why I kept asking
3:00:03him like did you do it on purpose I'm
3:00:06curious about that or did you you know
3:00:09was it an accident he told me an
3:00:11accident he thought I was coming
3:00:12downstairs
3:00:13oh and
3:00:15to me
3:00:16or we could explore that by another yeah
3:00:19for sure that's fine okay another
3:00:22okay
3:00:23now that's not like that's not a problem
3:00:25like you're talking about like things
3:00:27that we had and nice names that we can
3:00:30afford able that's not
3:00:32that was not a point of contention and
3:00:34began very well would have known but did
3:00:37it burn it burned the sofa also I don't
3:00:39think it burned it so far
3:00:42I'm just saying
3:00:47just saying all that yeah did he write
3:00:49the candles
3:00:52McKenna was he had already lit the
3:00:55candle because the dogs were
3:00:59he said he had already linked to Canada
3:01:01which we allowed normally do that yeah
3:01:03we allowed him to be he could light the
3:01:05candles he wanted to
3:01:07open like
3:01:09like Albert taught him how to read like
3:01:11the box cutters like that he was allowed
3:01:13to do those type of things
3:01:15um
3:01:16as long as you know he was usually
3:01:18within reason like okay I'm not going to
3:01:20go live
3:01:22here you know like
3:01:24when I was little too like I was I did
3:01:27the same thing about curious about my
3:01:28Tunes
3:01:29but we had already given him enough of
3:01:34you know right Stacy talks about like
3:01:36Albert when he talks about using the box
3:01:38cutters and knives he always showed him
3:01:40the right direction
3:01:42you know not to just go to me
3:01:45so he had already had these you know
3:01:50talks about the correct way
3:01:54that's why I'm supposed to talk about
3:01:55the bad faults
3:01:57a candle and now the foot injured in the
3:02:00garage
3:02:01[Music]
3:02:03before I go there so we don't forget you
3:02:06said peeling these later
3:02:09I just remember that on Monday his arm
3:02:11had a little bit of pilling to it and
3:02:14and that's when I said in my mind and
3:02:15like I told the earlier it appeared that
3:02:18I did at that point say hmm I probably
3:02:21should like think about if this is if I
3:02:24need to if later on after I put stuff on
3:02:27it I need to think about if
3:02:28if it gets worse you know monitor the
3:02:31situation you know like those type of
3:02:33things did you put stuff on it well we
3:02:36had took that green yellow stuff and we
3:02:38had put the little the dog had just had
3:02:45already done
3:02:47a done machine did you put them in both
3:02:48arms
3:02:49I don't think this one's a right arm I
3:02:51feel like and then when did you do that
3:02:53was that Sunday night Monday morning I
3:02:55think it was Sunday night
3:02:57um no actually it wasn't it was it was
3:03:00during the night because we stayed up
3:03:01late so it would have already been
3:03:03Monday when working hours
3:03:04like into money
3:03:07because we couldn't we couldn't breathe
3:03:10just Mel was so like it like stuck in
3:03:12the house and the smoke
3:03:15you guys hang out until the music we
3:03:18slept in our room and then we opened all
3:03:20the windows downstairs
3:03:23okay and all four of you slept in
3:03:26so Elena Harley
3:03:34and went to
3:03:36um
3:03:37yeah but then again went to Lane's room
3:03:40for a while but then he was in his room
3:03:43by the time he woke up
3:03:45okay
3:03:48I don't know when did you call him in
3:03:51sick it was pretty early in the morning
3:03:53well we didn't what happened is I didn't
3:03:55we didn't all I did was I called an app
3:03:58about his stomach it was nothing to do
3:04:00with anything to do with the fire
3:04:03my question was I'd already given the
3:04:07Miralax which was like you know so we
3:04:11had a prescription
3:04:14over the count I said whatever it is
3:04:15prescription Miralax whatever is Serene
3:04:17or whatever and I had already given him
3:04:19that and so then it also had excellent
3:04:22adult you know at what point can I not
3:04:29at what point is there enough or can I
3:04:32go ahead and do it
3:04:34Albert can tell you I've given him an
3:04:36animal before and like things like that
3:04:38because it gets so bad and it's like
3:04:40just so big and they get clogged up so
3:04:42that was the concern about
3:04:45how to get him to pass them
3:04:47but like for me I have to like I can
3:04:50drink 10 to Maryland
3:04:53it won't affect me at all yeah
3:04:56and so I didn't want it to be where it
3:04:58was like
3:05:01the combination is different and it
3:05:03might stomach because like I said if I
3:05:05take 10 of them I I'm okay I was having
3:05:08the Squirts and he started having those
3:05:10in the hike but he couldn't pass
3:05:12that whole evening is that right right
3:05:14he would get out
3:05:18but like couldn't get like the whole
3:05:19thing out and that was sometimes if you
3:05:22finally and then when he finally painful
3:05:24went out wasn't it correct for me I lay
3:05:27in the bathroom and I'm in pain
3:05:29was he telling you he was in pain well
3:05:32he sits on the toilet his common thing
3:05:34is that he'll sit on the toilet and just
3:05:36sit there and sit there as long as
3:05:37you've got something to focus with again
3:05:39it's pain tolerance it's very loving
3:05:41High when it comes
3:05:44focusing thank you
3:05:47so I mean he he probably spent a lot of
3:05:49time in the bathroom that evening just
3:05:51sitting there yeah often on the bathroom
3:05:52we got kids meals but he came out named
3:05:54kids meal
3:05:56better than I said McDonald's
3:06:01yeah so I had originally said Burger
3:06:03King but that's not Burger King right
3:06:04there that's car seat car seat
3:06:07um
3:06:08because I never got a question but we
3:06:09got two kids new you know Elena
3:06:15so he ate the
3:06:18kids you know when we got back but it
3:06:20still hadn't passed yet well he if he
3:06:22ate he had done something he had already
3:06:24used it some because he wouldn't have
3:06:26eaten
3:06:27and yeah did you give him the Miralax
3:06:28before the meal I'd already given him
3:06:31throughout the week we always had this
3:06:33thing where if I went in there and took
3:06:35one of my shots like of I think berries
3:06:37or something like that she would take
3:06:39one tea so it was common for me to be
3:06:42like okay here and Albert would always
3:06:44say go mix them up one of the drinks
3:06:45because we put in orange juice well he
3:06:47didn't he didn't like juices as much as
3:06:49it was like Kool-Aid juices
3:06:52those are the common thing to always try
3:06:54to give Miralax the regulate system but
3:06:58the problem is if you don't think that
3:07:00it's a Vyvanse but you don't take it for
3:07:02a day like you've been taking them
3:07:03Saturday
3:07:04because Finley was in town and they
3:07:08don't take on Saturday and if you don't
3:07:09take them Sunday that's when
3:07:12that's when it starts out when the
3:07:14constipation
3:07:16so like let's say people took a Saturday
3:07:19and we took it Sunday he wouldn't have
3:07:22been as bad but then the problem is
3:07:25Albert always would want him not on it
3:07:27if we're going to go do look at the time
3:07:28activity because instead of having him
3:07:30like you know no doubt
3:07:41[Music]
3:07:42to have like
3:07:47a thing
3:07:49you know we don't want him to be under
3:07:52that
3:07:54that is
3:07:57especially like on hike I wanted him to
3:07:59be able to learn
3:08:01run around and do things because medium
3:08:03we're always on the top of all like if
3:08:05we had Heights and we're always on the
3:08:06top of heights they're always the one
3:08:07right you know reading doing animals
3:08:10but was he bleeding that night do you
3:08:12know correctly
3:08:14yeah
3:08:17um
3:08:18so what happens is from him breathing
3:08:20uh
3:08:23um
3:08:26things are going on with him in the last
3:08:28couple hours yeah well I think we do
3:08:31stuff like that gives us the same things
3:08:34but I told you understand what you like
3:08:36and we'll give her late on that because
3:08:37it was like
3:08:38oh my gosh
3:08:40you know I mean just for squeezing yeah
3:08:44and think about that and that wasn't
3:08:46like
3:08:47and everything
3:08:49will be a summer yeah because of him
3:08:51struggling with that all night or that
3:08:54evening into the night you don't know
3:08:55when he eventually felt good or how it
3:08:58works is he might feel good
3:09:01we're hurting still until he gets it all
3:09:04out with not until a returning like 100
3:09:07at the deal like okay and that's good
3:09:09did he get back to Gannon that night for
3:09:12Sunday yeah yeah and so
3:09:16he was fine
3:09:19I associate extra time right be able to
3:09:23stay up and stuff yeah but I thought was
3:09:25you not struggling with this after the
3:09:26candle incident right because like what
3:09:29happens is
3:09:30I mean if you want to call them a GI
3:09:32person but he gets where he's okay and
3:09:35then a little bit more okay
3:09:37they happen every once a month duration
3:09:40where he goes
3:09:42the stomach and mine doesn't mean so
3:09:45when you guys were up in the bedroom how
3:09:47was he
3:09:48you mean like after after that plane and
3:09:51fire and smoke he was upset and like
3:09:54crying because he thought he was going
3:09:55to lose a twitch like for a long time
3:09:57like he thought he knows
3:09:59which
3:10:02biggest thing
3:10:07I knew whatever
3:10:09I would be quicker to cover up
3:10:13our team
3:10:15because
3:10:16we just related on the same thing
3:10:19because
3:10:22sure you do whatever
3:10:26and it could be more of like you can
3:10:33right
3:10:35and I'd be more inclined
3:10:38okay I don't know anybody who fixed it
3:10:40so that was kind of like our
3:10:43um completion what we're talking about
3:10:46so he was he wasn't that like
3:10:50very you know like upset and her and
3:10:54just friend or whatever but we also kind
3:10:56of
3:10:57what the hell like do you think he
3:10:58stayed up with you in the room until he
3:11:00finally right I don't know
3:11:07so whenever he
3:11:10um went Selena's room
3:11:13I don't I don't remember exactly but I
3:11:16know we all because all four of us
3:11:18couldn't fit in the band plus he knows
3:11:20but at one point in time we had to
3:11:22switch
3:11:25I thought at one point Harley was
3:11:27sleeping on the sofa and it hardly Elena
3:11:30switch because we were up like I said we
3:11:32couldn't breathe it was
3:11:34very funky
3:11:36we were all like
3:11:39when Lena went to school I'm pretty sure
3:11:41she probably went
3:11:43gets off of me right that's not good
3:11:50Lana was real sleepy but she went to
3:11:52school
3:11:53yeah like what I'm saying is when she
3:11:55when she woke up she probably was like
3:11:57really really like
3:11:58I felt like she could have used a couple
3:12:00more hours so why did you call Hannah
3:12:03and sick and not her well she wasn't
3:12:05struggling with stomach problems so he
3:12:07still had him in the morning right so he
3:12:10wasn't I even had messaged Albert the
3:12:12other night and said hey I asked him
3:12:15like I asked him is it okay if he didn't
3:12:17think so
3:12:19please do not lose
3:12:21yeah so he didn't respond because he was
3:12:23on a different time zone
3:12:26so you called in sick though too for
3:12:27your work
3:12:29judge that's at 126.58 on which was
3:12:32where I intended to stop and this is
3:12:33probably a good time for lunch yes it is
3:12:36all right
3:12:37um Mr gruesome you can go ahead and step
3:12:39down
3:12:41um ladies and gentlemen we will take our
3:12:43uh noon recess if I can hand everyone
3:12:45back in the Drew room a little bit
3:12:47before 1 30 we could be able to start on
3:12:49time at that point again don't discuss
3:12:51Pace among yourselves don't discuss the
3:12:53case with anyone else don't do your own
3:12:54research about any aspect of this case
3:12:58um with that we'll see you at 1 30. have
3:12:59a good lunch and Paul rice for the jury
3:13:01please
3:13:03thank you
3:13:07thanks
3:13:31email me seated record should reflect
3:13:33the jury has that important is there
3:13:35anything we need to take up outside the
3:13:36presence of the jury at this point in
3:13:37time execution
3:13:39all right according to be in recess
3:13:41thank you all rise
3:13:55Mike chick
3:13:58yes is a they coming back just before 1
3:14:0130 they said so it's almost an hour and
3:14:04a half of lunch break
3:14:06I'm just going to close this again
3:14:09all right
3:14:12that was intense
3:14:14that wasn't nice none of this is nice
3:14:16but that was really oh no
3:14:19the amount of victim blaming she does no
3:14:21it's too much
3:14:26back at 1 30 yeah Denver Colorado time
3:14:28Court time
3:14:31okay
3:14:34so
3:14:39oh see in lunchtime so it's about 90
3:14:41minutes yes so now we debrief what we
3:14:42heard that we go over a few things and
3:14:45then we'll take a break I also take a
3:14:46break but I put some relaxing music on
3:14:48if you want to just be here and carry on
3:14:50chatting and all of that right
3:14:53so
3:14:56the teacher says she cannot say a
3:14:58hundred percent if Gannon is dead or
3:15:00alive
3:15:02that's what she tells FBI special agent
3:15:05bruising this interview took place after
3:15:08she was arrested on March 2nd 2020.
3:15:12gannon's body was only found on March
3:15:1517th and by chance by a bridge inspector
3:15:18the bridges only got inspected every two
3:15:20years
3:15:21and there's many bridges of course so
3:15:23every two years each one got inspected
3:15:25so thank goodness
3:15:27the bridge got inspected and they
3:15:28spotted well there's a suitcase
3:15:32let's see what's in it and to their
3:15:34horror
3:15:37they found gannon's remains in that
3:15:39suitcase that the teacher had chucked
3:15:41off that Escambia River Bridge
3:15:44see minor Ops a
3:15:47lit
3:15:48to mock cheese tummy issues
3:15:51he tips it over
3:15:53she rages
3:15:55maybe but I think it's much worse than
3:15:57that based on the carpet patch and
3:16:00special API special agent Brook bell
3:16:04saying that that carpet the padding that
3:16:07was burned so much shows that sustained
3:16:09heat for a long time it's very intense
3:16:12heat so still it remains a mystery
3:16:15of what really happened
3:16:17with that candle incident and the candle
3:16:19incident was on the Sunday night January
3:16:2226 2020 the next day is when
3:16:27the probable cause affidavit says he was
3:16:29murdered in his room
3:16:32I don't dispute the murder in his room
3:16:34if it wasn't for the probable cause
3:16:36affidavit and the police saying that
3:16:37they believe he was murdered from the
3:16:39time they got back from the Petco
3:16:40somewhere between quarter past two in
3:16:42the afternoon on Monday and the next day
3:16:45I would have
3:16:46thought he was already murdered after
3:16:48this candle incident
3:16:50and in that picture we saw of him in his
3:16:52bed was him already not no longer with
3:16:55us but the police say there's that
3:16:57surveillance footage
3:16:59and it's very grainy
3:17:01thank you Sam Panther
3:17:03but they say he got in the vehicle
3:17:05Leticia says they went to Petco
3:17:07twice
3:17:10and all of that came back and then
3:17:12there's apparently a shadow end of the
3:17:13car and then he went in the home and
3:17:15then she murdered him but either way I
3:17:17think something really bad happened that
3:17:19Sunday night with that candle incident
3:17:21and even the way she's describing it now
3:17:23terrible absolutely terrible so when she
3:17:26said to special agent greasing that is
3:17:27the very truth
3:17:30that means it's a total laugh
3:17:33of the very truth is a total lie she
3:17:36said I had to protect my family and
3:17:38protect other people in this
3:17:40what
3:17:43okay
3:17:47they talked about the family history a
3:17:50little bit and she said she always tried
3:17:51to make Christmas and holidays about the
3:17:53kids
3:17:55parenting 101. I don't even have kids
3:17:59and I know that
3:18:02we even make it about Fury you get
3:18:05spoiled you know he's the kid in our
3:18:06house but like hello
3:18:08she tried to make Christmas and the
3:18:10holidays about the kids
3:18:12that's your job
3:18:14that is your job
3:18:17Leticia she said I worked so hard in my
3:18:21life so she's talking about the assets
3:18:22like the car like these cars we have in
3:18:24the house and the listen yeah I worked
3:18:26so hard in my life
3:18:31oh wait
3:18:34a regia cannot do it for a split second
3:18:36now I can't remember
3:18:39what she was referring to okay but she
3:18:42said something about I cannot do it for
3:18:43a Split Second
3:18:45anyway victimology is the study of the
3:18:48victim
3:18:49she says he was younger here and the
3:18:52reason they say here which I type in the
3:18:54chat if you guys do watch the live
3:18:56stream chat I do type things as we go
3:18:58um
3:18:59to remind us of the facts right when she
3:19:02said he was younger here it's because
3:19:03the FBI agent does tell us about you
3:19:06know your parenting here versus in
3:19:08Colorado because they first lived
3:19:11Leticia l
3:19:13again and Elena
3:19:15in Myrtle Beach
3:19:18um South Carolina and the kids would
3:19:20also see their mom Leticia has one
3:19:23daughter Harley she was 17 at the time
3:19:26in 2020.
3:19:27I think she was about 12 she said when
3:19:29Leticia married L right
3:19:33Michelle Bell says I want to know the
3:19:34proximity of the wax on the couch to the
3:19:36wax on the carpet
3:19:37yes that's true as well we've looked at
3:19:39the photo a few times as well I'll see
3:19:41if I have it now
3:19:42um
3:19:43C minor up says oh I def think she
3:19:46burned G after the candle fell yeah I
3:19:48think I think I don't know I don't even
3:19:50know what you think actually I try not
3:19:51to speculate too much because it can go
3:19:53really
3:19:54far
3:19:56just oh man okay okay so she was younger
3:19:58here which means in South Carolina
3:20:01the kids as in lane and getting would go
3:20:03see their mom l and Landon had joined
3:20:06custody
3:20:07and then when Al was deployed to Alaska
3:20:11Leticia hated not only the separation so
3:20:14much but Alaska she was like nope that's
3:20:16it his captain and his Colonel are
3:20:18sexually harassing me
3:20:20she filed a formal complaint with the
3:20:23National Guard
3:20:24against those people So eventually L was
3:20:28re-stage he was stationed in Colorado
3:20:30which is where she wanted to be
3:20:35I'm kind of gonna look this up just hold
3:20:36on
3:20:42I'm looking
3:20:46okay yeah I think leticia's just making
3:20:49up all that
3:20:51stuff about empty victim blame him but
3:20:53anyway let's get let's carry on
3:20:55um
3:20:55she said he struggled with history but
3:20:58he's
3:21:00mathematically inclined and he's just
3:21:02like his dad
3:21:03which yeah that kind of
3:21:07um
3:21:08that made me sad because she had so much
3:21:10resentment she was looking for find me
3:21:12real military singles find me a military
3:21:15man with kids without kids all kinds of
3:21:17crap you know Google searches we've done
3:21:19a deep dive on that um
3:21:21many times so
3:21:25the thing is to say he is just like his
3:21:27dad she took a lot of resentment out on
3:21:30Landon gannon's biological mother and on
3:21:33oh when she attacked Ganon but I do
3:21:36think a lot of you have said in the chat
3:21:37today that you think
3:21:40you know Ganon was probably really
3:21:41missing his mom and he was 11 years old
3:21:44and maybe he said like oh my word I
3:21:45really miss my mom like you're not my
3:21:48mom you know
3:21:50and maybe she's like oh let's go to
3:21:51Petco let's do this because if I don't
3:21:53know whatever happened on Sunday I don't
3:21:54know thank you Lorraine
3:21:57um
3:21:58and he just wanted to maybe just stay in
3:21:59the car maybe maybe he was super injured
3:22:01I don't know but maybe let's just say
3:22:03speculate for a second if he's like I
3:22:05just want to stay in the car I want to
3:22:06go with you
3:22:07stay in the car type of thing and he has
3:22:09every right every right to do that but
3:22:11she don't like that because she has so
3:22:13much resentment still does jealousy and
3:22:16resentment towards London a lot of
3:22:18jealousy we've heard it in all the calls
3:22:21we heard it in her interview to the
3:22:23media with her back to the camera we
3:22:25hear it all the time including in this
3:22:27when she's arrested she's talking about
3:22:28it oh my word I mean there's also
3:22:30where's this other stuff I found earlier
3:22:32for you guys
3:22:40this
3:22:45these are some screenshots of posts that
3:22:47she made
3:22:48around the time when Iran is looking for
3:22:50Ganon you know she said
3:22:53so you could see she's called T stuff
3:22:55trashing the mother of a missing child
3:22:57regardless of your past does nothing to
3:22:59make you look good it reeks of
3:23:00desperation is what someone said to
3:23:02Leticia Leticia says I don't give a f
3:23:04wake up
3:23:05she isn't a mother open your eyes she
3:23:08has something to do with it right
3:23:13uh Twisted Taurus we haven't heard from
3:23:15Lane because I think she's too young
3:23:16right she's 11 years old I'm sure well
3:23:18the police have spoken to her
3:23:20but I don't know if we're gonna hear
3:23:23anything of that I'm not sure I don't
3:23:25know
3:23:27um so then T said no one is worried
3:23:29about her mothering skills everyone's
3:23:30worried about bringing Ganon home oh
3:23:33someone said that right and then T stock
3:23:35says and I'm not desperate for anything
3:23:37because I haven't done anything
3:23:39then why the need to continuously defend
3:23:42yourself keep your head down and
3:23:43cooperate with the police until gannon's
3:23:44home
3:23:46um
3:23:47then they ask her do you know why a
3:23:48reward has not been put out and she says
3:23:50because they are too busy collecting it
3:23:52for his piece of crap mom who don't need
3:23:56it if she cared donate that to finding
3:23:58him yeah
3:24:00oh yeah found these receipts I'm like oh
3:24:02my word she really attacked gannon's mom
3:24:07Marissa says I do think she resented
3:24:09ganon's mom and Gannon Al's relationship
3:24:10she said they parented independently yes
3:24:16they said what a horrible human being
3:24:18you are really yeah she may have a drug
3:24:20problem but you're literally putting all
3:24:21the issues out there to try and make
3:24:22yourself look better when you're the one
3:24:24who lost him he went missing on your
3:24:26watch end of discussion you keep talking
3:24:27about finding Ganon being the only issue
3:24:29but in the same breath trying to
3:24:31belittle his mother you lost him enough
3:24:33story she said no darling what no
3:24:36darling doesn't make me look better
3:24:37because y'all did it did this first and
3:24:40you will see he was not lost G is okay
3:24:42he is out there oh my word
3:24:46he's okay and out there
3:24:48yeah okay
3:24:51uh let's see if I have another one here
3:24:53there's a few on this post
3:24:57oh man this is the long one she's like
3:24:59I'm gonna go ahead and say I can almost
3:25:01talk like her now I'm gonna go ahead and
3:25:03say this so y'all can delete me no
3:25:06desperation here just to show how dumb
3:25:08people are It Is Well with My Soul oh my
3:25:12gosh
3:25:13It Is Well with My Soul but I've had
3:25:15enough call it trashy but I've had
3:25:17enough of the lies and the threats most
3:25:19of it all in these speculation groups
3:25:21are delusional first the neighbors sold
3:25:23the video for money then there was
3:25:25another one from the other side that was
3:25:27sent in but they haven't released that
3:25:29because of these want to be detectives
3:25:31it's a tactic to keep idiots busy while
3:25:34we find Ganon oh wow that's her tactic
3:25:37though that's what she does
3:25:39that's how she probably thinks of people
3:25:40keep idiots busy
3:25:42okay
3:25:44you guys claim to come together but have
3:25:47brought hate in the same sentences
3:25:49ganon's mom didn't give a [ __ ] about him
3:25:51or his sister she had them at motels
3:25:53abusive situations criminal scenes with
3:25:56their husband what
3:25:59what okay she says criminal scenes with
3:26:01her husband did drugs heck Gannon even
3:26:04found her iPad with her doing drugs and
3:26:05we had pictures of those Albert rescued
3:26:07them from guns in the back of their cars
3:26:10oh right but then remember when Leticia
3:26:12said oh the guns were all over the house
3:26:14no Leticia that was on your watch okay
3:26:17so she said Albert rescued them from
3:26:20guns in the back of their cars police
3:26:21stops living place to place no home and
3:26:24even had to fly on a plane from Alaska
3:26:25through the night to bring them back to
3:26:27us because she changed their school
3:26:28three times and had not a place to live
3:26:31she sold his toys his switch and other
3:26:34items for drugs guys guys can you
3:26:36believe this
3:26:39she doesn't just victim blame
3:26:42a little boy who she murdered but also
3:26:44throws that mother right under the bus
3:26:48she said Ganon is still out there
3:26:51and for those of you making all these
3:26:52speculations in some group are idiots
3:26:55what about raising money for a reward
3:26:57not supporting someone who's faking
3:27:00they know exactly what was told to them
3:27:02and they followed these leads Downing a
3:27:05person who has taken care of kids more
3:27:07than theirs their mom is stupid know the
3:27:10facts they don't involve some group of
3:27:12idiots
3:27:13wow
3:27:16okay what about raising money for reward
3:27:18not supporting someone who's faking they
3:27:19know exactly what was told to them and
3:27:21they have followed these leads Downing a
3:27:23person who's taking care of kids I'm
3:27:25reading on the right now
3:27:26um more than their mom is stupid know
3:27:29the facts they don't involve someone
3:27:30hurting him this is who you are putting
3:27:33on a pedestal while trying to bully
3:27:35someone else based on tasteless wannabe
3:27:37keyboard detectives do what Ganon would
3:27:39do realize he needs to be home so he can
3:27:42be with the people who took care of him
3:27:43and loved him
3:27:45oh no okay I'm gonna need a little break
3:27:47from those things there's more of them
3:27:50foreign
3:27:54once you talked about the cruise I was
3:27:56very confused because I could swear she
3:27:58was mentioning me Harley L and Lena what
3:28:00where's Gannon what do you mean who's on
3:28:02the cruise her and Elle went on a cruise
3:28:05but she's just throwing around all the
3:28:07kids names and I'm like what she said
3:28:09she was a softball coach and still the
3:28:11softball thing is Eerie all the things
3:28:13she mentions become Eerie because when
3:28:15her brother asked her
3:28:16did it help with that bag which had
3:28:18gannon's remains and she said nope nope
3:28:20and he said what's in it because it
3:28:21looked heavy and she's like softball
3:28:23stuff
3:28:25now she has in many of these phone calls
3:28:27we've heard and the interrogation videos
3:28:28introduced things
3:28:31by things I mean a baseball bat
3:28:34a box cutter
3:28:36she is introducing the gout medication
3:28:39which is that culture scene which can be
3:28:41lethal if you don't have Garten
3:28:42especially for a little boy so whether
3:28:44she was dragging in with that or not
3:28:45either we don't know they didn't Trace
3:28:47at any system he had a
3:28:51Tylenol
3:28:53and hydrocodone in any system
3:28:56but it would be very hard to trace at
3:28:58that point that stage of dcom those gout
3:29:01medication stuff if she had given it to
3:29:03him before so there's that because
3:29:05apparently it's traced in the urine and
3:29:07at that point of decomp it would be very
3:29:08hard
3:29:11yeah you guys just you feel free to say
3:29:14your thoughts that I could see a lot
3:29:15t-shirt yeah
3:29:17um
3:29:19she said that Gannon had four sisters
3:29:21and no brothers
3:29:23he had two male cousins I don't know I
3:29:25know Lena okay and Harley I don't know
3:29:27who the other two are if that means
3:29:30female cousins or what she's talking
3:29:32about there or like her sisters kids
3:29:36I don't know but I was like okay
3:29:39they asked um special agent greasing
3:29:41artist
3:29:42so did he take the ADHD meds himself or
3:29:45what and then she goes on a long
3:29:48as always long story
3:29:51and explains that she
3:29:53packs the lunch but she explained it in
3:29:54a way you can just hear the neglect
3:29:57I don't know how much she fed these kids
3:30:00I don't know if she really took care of
3:30:02any of them really because she's just
3:30:03like yeah I would like pack the lunch in
3:30:06the corner I mean there by the
3:30:07refrigerator
3:30:08and then just put the meds on the
3:30:10counter
3:30:12okay for an 11 year old little boy just
3:30:14like yeah I'm just gonna put it there I
3:30:16won't even see if like really if he
3:30:17takes it or not just gonna put it there
3:30:19she said that at school they had a very
3:30:21in-depth convo about drugs at the school
3:30:24and this is where Gannon learned about
3:30:26the bath salts
3:30:27which as you guys always say it's so
3:30:292016 or so 10 years ago all that I don't
3:30:32know
3:30:33why they'd be teaching kids about it and
3:30:35they'd be like cool I mean that's not
3:30:37the point
3:30:38right
3:30:40anyway so she said
3:30:43L would also talk about bad people and
3:30:46bad things related to drugs but Elle
3:30:48said on
3:30:50his interview on a call we heard
3:30:52yesterday it's all a bit of a blur at
3:30:54this point right but he said at one
3:30:55point
3:30:56oh yeah yeah it was on a call the FBI
3:30:58recorded call it was him and Leticia
3:31:00talking
3:31:01and he said to Leticia why would he
3:31:03mention bottles I think it was you you
3:31:05texted me about the bus holes you know
3:31:07how he is he always says people mustn't
3:31:10do bad things and he labels things like
3:31:11drugs and smoking or whatever as bad
3:31:13things
3:31:14so yeah we speculate that Leticia
3:31:17planted the Swisher Sweets in his
3:31:19backpack
3:31:21I mean have you ever like she's really
3:31:22like not only will she murder an 11 year
3:31:25old boy but also like
3:31:27oh man just be like he's pooping his
3:31:29pants basically a Non-Stop he's got the
3:31:31Swisher Sweets he was trying to take
3:31:32bath salts he cut his foot in the garage
3:31:34I mean sorry what he was then later we
3:31:37didn't get to it having rage issues and
3:31:41I don't know using the bus box cutter
3:31:43and she's has to throw things what
3:31:47oh it's exhausting my goodness I'm
3:31:49definitely gonna thank you for all the
3:31:51coffees you guys I'm gonna go drink
3:31:52coffee in this break
3:31:54I'm gonna be drinking so much coffee for
3:31:57the round for round two of this Friday
3:31:58because we're gonna need it
3:32:01yeah she said she didn't cook that's
3:32:03true Jan she you know would go to Burger
3:32:05King or
3:32:06McDonald's or whatever she didn't cook
3:32:08yeah
3:32:10okay
3:32:13she said
3:32:14Albert had gout medication and that I
3:32:17wrote down as well because
3:32:19of all the meds that they
3:32:22um took into evidence from the house
3:32:24they never found the hydrocodone
3:32:28even though hydrocodone
3:32:30and this Tylenol was any system that's
3:32:33what was any system
3:32:35but what they found in the house was
3:32:37five medications one was for the dogs
3:32:39one was this culture scene got
3:32:42medication one was perigo or something
3:32:45and there's a few others we've mentioned
3:32:46before do you need me to go on it again
3:32:49yeah
3:32:51um anyway the point is the gout
3:32:52medication she mentions which I find
3:32:54interesting there's always a little
3:32:55grain little grain of Truth in all this
3:32:58crap she talks which is Sinister when
3:33:00you start bullet pointing it and putting
3:33:03it all together right she says bath
3:33:06salts he just wanted to relax he
3:33:08probably meant by salts for the bot and
3:33:10he took two Bots
3:33:13wow okay
3:33:15Rabbit Hollow thank you so much for your
3:33:17super sticker
3:33:21she said I've taught him so many
3:33:23independent skills that really hurt
3:33:27because she's like ah the freaking
3:33:29narcissist have taught him so many
3:33:31independent skills
3:33:34okay then where the wind blows thank you
3:33:37so much
3:33:39someone says Kim Kardashian doesn't cook
3:33:41while Leticia thinks she's Kim
3:33:43Kardashian remember that's literally her
3:33:45role model in case you've missed that
3:33:47so she said
3:33:50she also talked about Lena taking a bath
3:33:51somehow she said like this somehow she
3:33:54did her hands like somehow I'm like some
3:33:57somehow okay
3:33:58no supervision these young kids just
3:34:01taking boss no one's checking on them
3:34:02and he's just putting in bustles but
3:34:04Holly said she didn't even know that
3:34:06they had buy salt she doesn't think they
3:34:07had any and she wouldn't think that
3:34:09Ganon would know anything about that
3:34:11okay she said then she'd start saying
3:34:15she's like mirroring she's thinking that
3:34:18her and Ganon are alike in this moment
3:34:20she says we both have anxiety and we
3:34:22both have stomach problems
3:34:25but then she says he's so kind-hearted
3:34:27he's so sweet oh my word fake Tisha
3:34:31he is he was but I'm saying Leticia oh
3:34:35man it just reminded me of Leticia from
3:34:37the interview with her back to the
3:34:39camera just like he's so kind he's so
3:34:41sweet he's gonna sincerely well he's
3:34:44going to tell the world that I didn't do
3:34:45anything when he comes home and everyone
3:34:47will sincerely apologize to me
3:34:50wow
3:34:53quote comes back at uh in an hour
3:34:57one hour
3:34:58so she said she doesn't believe in
3:35:01spanking other people's kids
3:35:04oh only your own so the domestic
3:35:06violence is just for Harley who you
3:35:07backhanding and slapping and cursively
3:35:10controlling to the point where she is so
3:35:12guest lit and so brainwashed and so
3:35:13terrified yeah she's just like complying
3:35:16like okay right
3:35:19um so so DB is it's the spanking The
3:35:21Hating the whatever that's just for your
3:35:23daughter she doesn't believe in spanking
3:35:25other people's kids oh just murder then
3:35:28just a little bit of murder huh
3:35:30wow
3:35:33interesting I am naughty painted she
3:35:35also said burns on our arms
3:35:39yes
3:35:40she said you know when we were fussing
3:35:42with each other when the agent tried to
3:35:44ask her about when was the time when
3:35:48you know you
3:35:50you had a disagreement or like a moment
3:35:53where you remember
3:35:55something happening between her and
3:35:57again and she's like oh you mean when
3:35:58we're like fussing with each other
3:36:00she said that Al told Gannon how to use
3:36:03a box cutter so
3:36:05that's introducing the baseball bat and
3:36:07the box cutter that's very very Sinister
3:36:09the candle and the burns
3:36:12oh dear that box cutter really worries
3:36:14me and I really wonder if they found
3:36:17that box cutter or if the box cutter was
3:36:19ever missing because I worry about that
3:36:21with the sharp force injuries
3:36:25yeah you guys are like no spanking gun
3:36:27shots
3:36:31okay then
3:36:35she said Gannon was in an upset rage he
3:36:38had rage issues
3:36:39and I missed a little bit of the I
3:36:41wasn't visualizing it thereof just
3:36:43because normally I visualized and I
3:36:44remember everything right but something
3:36:45about the box cutter and she's taking it
3:36:46and throwing it at that point my brain
3:36:48clocked out for a second and I'm just
3:36:49like what
3:36:50these stories is too much but the victim
3:36:54blaming of like he's got anger issues
3:36:58she didn't like her original name so
3:36:59sometimes she called herself t-shirt and
3:37:01all that as We Know
3:37:02they talk about the fire incident she
3:37:04said he wasn't allowed to play a switch
3:37:05and he was really worried how does he
3:37:07how does she know that he's really
3:37:09worried the whole time that she's gonna
3:37:10come down and look and catch him in the
3:37:12act of playing with that switch
3:37:14how does she know she's like oh yeah he
3:37:16was really worried that I was coming
3:37:17downstairs how do you know huh
3:37:19anyway
3:37:21um she said Elena were doing whatever I
3:37:23think she said baking something but not
3:37:25really baking but then lying under the
3:37:26covers I don't know that was a weird
3:37:28story then that alarm beep beep beep and
3:37:30then fire fire
3:37:33so her and Lena run to the truck we've
3:37:35already heard the story so this is
3:37:36consistent of what she said her and Lena
3:37:37run to the track this time the dogs are
3:37:39not mentioned at all her original story
3:37:41original story is her and Lena and the
3:37:43they each grab a dog they run to the
3:37:45truck
3:37:46and then out comes again and they're
3:37:48just staring at him yeah okay like she
3:37:50she even told Elle for a second I forgot
3:37:52about Ganon so she forgot about forgot
3:37:55about Ganon in the fire incident story
3:37:57and remember when she also told Al she
3:37:59forgot about Ganon when she left the
3:38:00pitco
3:38:02yes it's called projecting gsgnb
3:38:06at the Petco she's like and I was
3:38:07driving home and then I realized I
3:38:09forgot our baby what
3:38:11you're just forgetting him left and
3:38:12right
3:38:13you know stories
3:38:16so I really worry about that uh that
3:38:18burning thing
3:38:24welcome to membership Jess so
3:38:26Stereophonics mom says she took the
3:38:28opiates and dragged Harley in Pensacola
3:38:32yeah probably you're probably right
3:38:34probably right uh what Stereophonics Mom
3:38:38is saying is because the hydrocodone was
3:38:39never found in the house it wasn't on
3:38:42the list of what they found so she
3:38:43probably took it along with her and yeah
3:38:45she probably she probably dragged her
3:38:46own daughter
3:38:48put a fast to sleep as she went out to
3:38:51get rid of that suitcase
3:38:52yes
3:38:55Okay so
3:38:57she said that when she went downstairs
3:38:59so firstly this again the one story is
3:39:01Ganon running out
3:39:02and them just staring at him the next
3:39:04story is that he's awake but not really
3:39:06awake you know what I mean okay so
3:39:08there's a freaking blazing fire
3:39:09according to her the whole place is
3:39:11filled with smoke fumes and everything
3:39:12they can't breathe but getting is like
3:39:15awake but not awake
3:39:17sounds like you dragged him
3:39:20anyway she said she pulled the cover and
3:39:22then pulled Ganon with the cover I mean
3:39:24is she watching cartoons or what like
3:39:25what is she meaning by that like pull
3:39:27the cover and then yeah he just got
3:39:28pulled along with it okay
3:39:30she also said I put stuff in trash cans
3:39:32you guys saw that she did put stuff she
3:39:34put a whole bunch of stuff in there
3:39:35there was a the candle holder with a
3:39:37sock in it that was weird
3:39:39um
3:39:42she remembers nothing about the fire
3:39:44when asked about the color of the fire
3:39:45the size of the fire no nothing nothing
3:39:48she exited at the garage that's what she
3:39:50remembers and Ganon runs behind me so
3:39:53wow what a protective lady just like let
3:39:55the kid just run I'm not saying the kid
3:39:57disrespectfully again and I'm saying in
3:39:59her mind
3:40:00just like I'm gonna run and like where's
3:40:01the kid okay wait oh he's behind me
3:40:03that's just not Apparent at all we know
3:40:06this stating the obvious
3:40:09um she said
3:40:11we were all in the bedroom at this time
3:40:12so that's later when they all go back in
3:40:14the house now they're all in the bedroom
3:40:15but later she slipped up and said myself
3:40:18and Lane and Harley
3:40:19I don't know again and was he was
3:40:21initially in Lena's room then at some
3:40:22point he went downstairs but she had no
3:40:24idea today she tells the FBI special
3:40:26agent she has no idea when Jenna went
3:40:28downstairs yet when Harley testified her
3:40:31own daughter Harley said yeah it was
3:40:34pretty weird because she said come let's
3:40:36go say good night again and and they
3:40:38went downstairs and it smelled like like
3:40:41fumes and stuff it was cold down there
3:40:43and she looked into gannon's room and
3:40:46she said night Gannon and she said she
3:40:48saw his head she didn't describe
3:40:50anything else she saw him she saw his
3:40:52head that said
3:40:53and leticia's like say good night to him
3:40:55that's so weird and then Harley slept
3:40:58upstairs that night in leticia's bed
3:41:01because of how Smokey it was downstairs
3:41:03so
3:41:05is that
3:41:08then she says we're all in the bedroom
3:41:10this time saying did you do this on
3:41:12purpose and all that they weren't in the
3:41:14bedroom doing that she recorded him
3:41:16and that's where else said did you were
3:41:18you trying to do what you do to me and
3:41:20when asked what that means he said
3:41:21manipulation like recording and then
3:41:24threatening by using that recording
3:41:25against a person or whatever you know
3:41:27she recorded him saying oh you swear he
3:41:29didn't do it on purpose we've heard it
3:41:30it's all it's on my playlist if you've
3:41:33never heard it it's called Ganon Star
3:41:34Audio and surveillance go check it out
3:41:36there it's all timestamp for you
3:41:38I don't want to listen to it again it
3:41:40was very very sad not right now not
3:41:42right now maybe another time I think
3:41:43you'll agree though whenever I'm like
3:41:44should we you're like no not again
3:41:46it's on there if you want to hear it
3:41:47again where he said in that recording he
3:41:50says I'm bleeding
3:41:52at the end it says I'm bleeding and the
3:41:54one recording we heard in this trial he
3:41:55says I'm just worried about my Burns
3:41:59she said I just wanted to fix it and not
3:42:01tell L okay just fix it and not tell him
3:42:05I think that's true but it's a lot more
3:42:07Sinister than we think
3:42:09so she wanted to fix it and not tell him
3:42:11and she wanted the kids to lie with her
3:42:13like as in let's all lie about it and
3:42:15just cover this up
3:42:18she said she allowed him to light the
3:42:19candle to open packages with a box
3:42:21cutter those are two very weird things
3:42:22to mention very weird and Sinister I
3:42:25allowed him to light candles you know at
3:42:2711 years old just like have matches or
3:42:29lighters around whatever okay and to
3:42:32open packages with the box cutter wet
3:42:34packages what packages is an 11 year old
3:42:36kid opening with a box cutter is it the
3:42:39Mexican ones from Petco you know
3:42:41with the lady story earlier if you
3:42:43missed it
3:42:45is that a lady got in her track
3:42:48in the passenger seat at the Petco who
3:42:50looked eight months pregnant but wasn't
3:42:52eight months pregnant it was actually
3:42:53just a belly full of cash and she needed
3:42:56the T-shirt to go into the Petco to look
3:42:59normal
3:43:00come back out and then deliver papers to
3:43:03Mexican restaurants
3:43:04in order to get packages
3:43:09did you all follow that or are you like
3:43:11what is she saying
3:43:12what is she saying now
3:43:16she said yeah she had no idea whether he
3:43:18went to his room or not after the candle
3:43:19incident she said Albert can tell Albert
3:43:22can tell you
3:43:23I've given him an enema before that that
3:43:26oh that made me worry because she told
3:43:28Elle that he was you know bleeding from
3:43:30his butt and stuff and I'm just like
3:43:32what did she do to him
3:43:38uh she's this this was very scary this
3:43:41was I hope you like the Recaps
3:43:43this was so scary when she said ganon's
3:43:46pain tolerance is very high
3:43:49if he has something to focus on
3:43:52that sentence is all kinds of wrong
3:43:56if he has something to focus on his pain
3:43:57tolerance is very high now she was
3:43:59talking about it in the context of going
3:44:00to the toilet and all of that
3:44:02but still just think about that sentence
3:44:05and she said he's like very forgiving
3:44:07you know one minute they'll be fussing
3:44:09with each other and
3:44:11afterwards he'll be just like her just
3:44:13like oh whatever just like you know so
3:44:16forgiving
3:44:17yeah that sounds to me like she's the
3:44:19abuser which we now know obviously she's
3:44:21the abuser
3:44:22he him and everyone around us being
3:44:24coercively controlled
3:44:26and he is fawning or maybe he is
3:44:30dissociating the way she's abusing him
3:44:32you know what I mean like he's just
3:44:33complying and phoning and like that's
3:44:35it's fine don't worry shame
3:44:38okay so I've only got two more things
3:44:40here
3:44:42she talked about this
3:44:44she talked about constipation and
3:44:46diarrhea
3:44:47or all in one and I'm like all in the
3:44:49same day even the agent was like so on
3:44:51the hike you give him she gave him my
3:44:54relax
3:44:56and then took him on a six mile hike
3:44:58that is so sadistic who does that you
3:45:01give in the Miralax
3:45:03and you keep him at home close to a
3:45:05toilet that would make a lot more sense
3:45:09right yes Lori uh trigger warning with
3:45:12again and injuries
3:45:16and then she said once you got
3:45:17everything out he was back to Gannon
3:45:24so you're making as if he's I mean she
3:45:26sounds like Lori Bella right now
3:45:29you know it sounds like he's one way
3:45:33when he's all constipated and struggling
3:45:35but then as soon as it's all out he's
3:45:37just back to Gannon I mean I don't know
3:45:39who talks like that
3:45:40she said he was fine
3:45:43but then again I just wrote you I
3:45:44couldn't breathe very smoky
3:45:46okay so that's what we have there I just
3:45:48quickly want to see I wonder where that
3:45:50picture is that I have maybe it's here
3:45:52just hold on one second
3:45:55let's find it quickly
3:45:58is it this one it could be
3:46:04yes flower power says she conditioned
3:46:06the children to accept abuse
3:46:08[Music]
3:46:11okay so this was a slide I made
3:46:14if you missed it before I'll quit
3:46:16together was born on September 29 2008
3:46:19to Landon Hyatt and Al Stark he was born
3:46:22three months premature he survived a
3:46:24collapsed lung had a feeding tube and
3:46:26weighed one pound and six ounces he's
3:46:28described as a miracle child he had a 10
3:46:31chance of survival
3:46:33that just makes me so mad because he
3:46:35overcame so much and even if someone
3:46:37didn't overcome
3:46:38anything of which I think we all
3:46:40overcome a lot through our lifetime here
3:46:42as humans on planet Earth but even if he
3:46:44didn't overcome anything you still like
3:46:46hello it's still a little boy 11 years
3:46:47old but to think that he had overcome so
3:46:49much
3:46:51and then freaking Leticia murdered him
3:46:53what
3:46:55uh he has a younger sister Lena
3:46:58gannon's parents got divorced and Al
3:47:00married Leticia Gannon moved to Colorado
3:47:02in 2019 to spend more time with his dad
3:47:04Leticia and the kids moved in January
3:47:062019 and Al joined them from Alaska in
3:47:09February 2019. that's why she talks
3:47:11about South Carolina when they lived
3:47:13there at Myrtle Beach right Gannon
3:47:15dreamed of becoming a YouTube gamer and
3:47:17already uploaded a video to YouTube
3:47:18we've seen it together here on this
3:47:20channel uh in other lunch breaks and tea
3:47:22breaks so if you haven't seen that check
3:47:23it out he does have a channel if you
3:47:25type in ganastak you can find it
3:47:27he loved Mario and Sonic his favorite
3:47:29color was blue his family nicknamed him
3:47:31Big Bubba he told his biological mama
3:47:34joke every single day she said he looked
3:47:36forward to telling her something corny
3:47:37every day
3:47:39Gannon stayed with his dad little sister
3:47:40step sister and stepmother at 6627
3:47:43Mandan Drive lorson Ranch Colorado and
3:47:45enjoyed biking around the neighborhood
3:47:48and playing video games with his friends
3:47:49he was last seen on Monday January 27
3:47:522020 on surveillance footage leaving the
3:47:55house with Leticia
3:47:57I still find that I that surveillance
3:47:59footage still fascinates me because
3:48:01there's a tree in the way I wonder if
3:48:03she knew that it's just like Chris Watts
3:48:05when it's like oh this tree the bush the
3:48:07bush that was in the way and the Chris
3:48:08what's footage there's a tree here this
3:48:10tree
3:48:11in a way that that makes it look a
3:48:14little bit
3:48:15you know like is that is that Ganon
3:48:18getting in or what is that because the
3:48:19tree is moving a little bit in the
3:48:20footage but we do see
3:48:23what I think is Ganon walking out
3:48:25getting in the truck and Leticia going
3:48:27back and forth and eventually driving
3:48:28off okay
3:48:30yes Sandy says I've never seen a worse
3:48:32layer I know me too right
3:48:34okay so this was the house at 6627
3:48:37Mandan Drive
3:48:40I'm just I'm doing this to get to the
3:48:42candle picture by the way there you go
3:48:43so
3:48:45on Sunday January 26 2020 Leticia booked
3:48:48Ganon or from school for Monday saying
3:48:49that he had stomach problems she
3:48:51recorded herself addressing Ganon about
3:48:53candle wax that had spilled on the
3:48:55carpet I'm just worried about my Burns
3:48:58Ganon Was Heard saying
3:49:04okay on Monday Jan this on Monday
3:49:07January 27 2020 she booked all from work
3:49:09saying that her stepfather was killed in
3:49:11a car crash as we know now that was a
3:49:13true story but from decades ago
3:49:15she just used that story now okay
3:49:18she took a photo of Ganon asleep in his
3:49:20bed at 8 15 am that morning Harley left
3:49:23for work at eight o'clock so on that
3:49:24morning went Harley left for work
3:49:26Leticia went downstairs and took a photo
3:49:28of Ganon in his room
3:49:33uh welcome to membership Deb
3:49:36this is the picture
3:49:39a lot of people say what if he was
3:49:42already no longer with us in this
3:49:44picture
3:49:45the thing is
3:49:48what they showed us and again trigger
3:49:50warning firstly this contents for adults
3:49:52only
3:49:52trigger warning we're talking about
3:49:55an 11 year old
3:49:57that was murdered in his room and the
3:49:58evidence that they've shown so far so
3:50:00there was a lot of blood spatter
3:50:02evidence on the walls there's blood that
3:50:04seeped through the mattress onto the
3:50:06carpet and into the concrete that they
3:50:08found right
3:50:10this bedding pictured here I mean
3:50:11Leticia is so dumb that she took this
3:50:14picture for who knows what reason it's
3:50:17so creepy what she did but this bedding
3:50:19and the pillow was not found until they
3:50:21found the bag on March 17 2020.
3:50:25the stuff was in the bag
3:50:29court is back um
3:50:31at half past one Colorado time
3:50:35so
3:50:41she there was his Nintendo switch next
3:50:43to him
3:50:44and she also had Googled Can Nintendo
3:50:46find my switch she said Ganon left
3:50:48between quarter past three and four pm
3:50:50to play video games at a friend's house
3:50:51and that
3:50:53said that he never returned she called
3:50:55911 missing that evening
3:51:03okay sorry going on there
3:51:07these are more pictures I've just
3:51:09changed the contrast and things like
3:51:10that just so you can see it
3:51:16uh flightless images given more time gee
3:51:21do you think Latisha would have also
3:51:23heard Lena Lena um
3:51:27I don't know
3:51:29I don't think so I think that she would
3:51:30know you know do you definitely can't
3:51:32get away with that I don't know how she
3:51:33thought she can get away with this but
3:51:35I don't know I think get in
3:51:39got a lot of the abuse read
3:51:42okay
3:51:47so this is what I wanted to show you
3:51:49this is a picture
3:51:52that Leticia I think she put it on
3:51:53social media fairly early
3:51:55think that's where it's from
3:51:59we do not know what the hell this is
3:52:01really because the fact that it's red
3:52:03like that and brownish I mean I know we
3:52:05all speculate is it blood people okay
3:52:07I'm trigger warning
3:52:09people speculate is it blood is it poop
3:52:10what is it but like that is what they
3:52:12were talking about okay that's what the
3:52:14special agents talk about and referring
3:52:16to with this what tell us about the fire
3:52:17incident tell us about the candle this
3:52:19is apparently what caused the fire fire
3:52:22alarm but it's not even in the right
3:52:25location compared to where the carpet
3:52:28was cut out
3:52:29hmm because they showed us those photos
3:52:32in that basement area and I'm like but
3:52:34that's behind the couch where she cut
3:52:36the carpet at so there's a place where
3:52:38she cut the carpet out and then there's
3:52:40this
3:52:41what the freak is going on here
3:52:43it's not right
3:52:48yes crystal says what is the shape at
3:52:50the bottom of the bed under the cover
3:52:51I'll go back quickly
3:52:53it does look like a suitcase or
3:52:55something doesn't it
3:52:57it doesn't look right
3:52:59yeah Jay says red wax from a white
3:53:01candle hmm
3:53:03it looks like a suitcase under that bed
3:53:07that's a scary thought
3:53:09there's a lot of scary thoughts in this
3:53:10case of course
3:53:13so I zoomed in a bit to all of this
3:53:17so that you could see it
3:53:19that is not just candle wax and I zoomed
3:53:21in on the right as well to be like what
3:53:22happened to the couch there what is that
3:53:26yes and the candle had a sock in it
3:53:36yeah KPM so the candle is white so
3:53:38what's the stuff on the floor
3:53:40and even just
3:53:42picture looks it's just like what I mean
3:53:48it's very confusing I hope we'll
3:53:50eventually find out more about what
3:53:52really happened here but maybe we just
3:53:54don't know
3:54:01yeah you guys are saying OMG it does
3:54:03look like the shape of a suitcase it
3:54:04does
3:54:09Ellison says hydrocodone is or
3:54:12acetaminophen is one medication
3:54:18what are we talking about thank you so
3:54:19much for your sticker
3:54:21okay okay are you saying that's the same
3:54:23medication
3:54:25okay
3:54:28so we've got that let's just see what
3:54:30else we have because
3:54:31um yeah so the rest I think we pretty
3:54:34much know
3:54:35we'll go over quickly that morning she
3:54:37texted her daughter with ganon's phone
3:54:38saying t-shirt left phone at home text
3:54:40me if you need her on January 28 2020
3:54:42Leticia drove her car to the Colorado
3:54:44Springs Airport and left it there she
3:54:46then rented a car and picked up her
3:54:48husband in the rental saying that she
3:54:49didn't want to add mileage to a car she
3:54:52slipped out that night to go back to the
3:54:53airport and fetch your car she drove
3:54:55South Perry Park Road in Douglas County
3:54:56and that is where the police believe she
3:54:58initially dumped ganon's body her phone
3:55:00was in airplane mode for most of the
3:55:02night until January 29th on January 29th
3:55:05she changed the whole story the aguardo
3:55:07story started and then involved to yeah
3:55:09Uncle Matt Quincy Brown and all of that
3:55:12Kennon was stabbed 18 times chest back
3:55:15and head and had defensive wounds on his
3:55:17arms and hands so he wasn't dragged he
3:55:19wasn't knocked out and stuff like that
3:55:20he wasn't shot first he had defensive
3:55:22wounds okay there's also blind force
3:55:24trauma to his head which the prosecutor
3:55:25said fracked his skull like an eggshell
3:55:27he was shot at or shot three times with
3:55:30a nine millimeter handgun she missed two
3:55:32shots but one shot struck his jaw
3:55:34traveled through his head and lodged
3:55:35into the back of his head Leticia asked
3:55:37her daughter to buy her carpet cleaner
3:55:39baking soda Etc and started cleaning
3:55:41his body was stuffed into a suitcase
3:55:43with his pillow and blankets which was
3:55:44discovered on March 17 2020.
3:55:47these are pictures of Ganon and in the
3:55:49break now I will play a montage of
3:55:52pictures of Ganon
3:55:55and maybe in another tea break we can
3:55:57re-look at that uh surveillance footy we
3:55:59looked at a lot
3:56:00um
3:56:01but maybe in the break we can do that
3:56:03and the next break I mean they're
3:56:04probably gonna have a tea break again
3:56:05later I call it a tea break
3:56:07as you don't know why I call it we don't
3:56:10do like it's not like the UK like a tea
3:56:12time
3:56:13I think I think it's honestly from the
3:56:16pilot training I did we used to like do
3:56:18ground school and then they said okay
3:56:19right tea break I think that's where I
3:56:21could have promised like it's a coach
3:56:22break right now
3:56:23tea break time
3:56:25Okay so
3:56:28what I want to do is I want to just
3:56:31bring this Facebook stuff over here for
3:56:32later
3:56:35okay
3:56:37and welcome to all the new members I
3:56:39hope you'll go and check out the members
3:56:40only playlist even if you do that now
3:56:42don't don't leave but if you were to do
3:56:44that
3:56:45um you could see some of the snark we've
3:56:47done and just debriefs especially with
3:56:49this case on my words sometimes we
3:56:51really need that okay
3:56:57that's the thing next bang all of this
3:56:59that's a lot
3:57:00a lot
3:57:03okay let me find where's the lunch break
3:57:05video come on now computer I know
3:57:07there's a lot of videos on here but
3:57:10my computer is like whoa lady
3:57:15welcome to membership
3:57:17okay so this one
3:57:21okay
3:57:25like this
3:57:26and sorry for just give me a moment I
3:57:28just really want to find you guys
3:57:29something it's this clock yes
3:57:32and how many minutes is it about the I'm
3:57:35going to make it 30.
3:57:37[Music]
3:57:38um
3:57:40yes I'll be back in 30 minutes
3:57:45let's see if you could see it
3:57:49wait
3:57:51ah you can see it okay
3:57:54quite nice
3:58:00okay
3:58:26thank you
3:59:55thank you
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4:29:12how's the mic my chick
4:29:17I hope you had a good little break I'm
4:29:18sure time flew right
4:29:21I just couldn't want to find something
4:29:22for you
4:29:24hold on right now it is they said just
4:29:27before
4:29:29they said just before half past so let's
4:29:32quickly join it so we can see
4:29:44okay so I'll monitor that
4:29:49okay Mike okay thank you Ben Mike okay
4:29:53they are back they said just before half
4:29:56past right now it's almost 20 bucks so
4:29:58within the next 10 minutes but I'm just
4:30:00gonna monitor it
4:30:02um of course because sometimes they come
4:30:03back a bit early
4:30:04right so
4:30:06basically
4:30:09find that footage huh
4:30:19okay
4:30:20so this is some more of that you know
4:30:24another version of the surveillance
4:30:25footage that I found with the um this
4:30:26creator
4:30:27brightened it by 50 so let's have a look
4:30:30at this
4:30:38okay so this is on January 27 2020 the
4:30:42day that the police say this is when the
4:30:45murders happen and the day that Leticia
4:30:49took Gannon to Petco
4:30:51twice as in they went to Petco Dunkin
4:30:54Donuts
4:30:55no one knows where they went between
4:30:57leaving what it sounds like ganon's
4:30:59phone at the Petco driving around
4:31:01somewhere probably scoping out I hate
4:31:04the word too but a dump site in broad
4:31:07daylight that's a scary thought
4:31:12okay so there's no sound on this video
4:31:15of course it's just surveillance
4:31:17yes
4:31:23thank you so much Mikey's Mammy
4:31:29yes cha cha Dodd says wow thanks to it
4:31:32whoever I'll show you the Creator's name
4:31:38she's going in there now okay just hold
4:31:40on this is team Phoenix team Phoenix
4:31:43okay
4:31:44so Leticia went she went in there now if
4:31:47you pinch on your screen if you're on a
4:31:48mobile device or whatever you can pinch
4:31:50and zoom
4:31:52that's what I was doing two in the
4:31:53morning
4:32:06candy says the carpet piece had both
4:32:08blood and burn marks on it oh my word
4:32:13so now that's at the point as you see
4:32:15there that's where they say again and
4:32:16came on then Leticia
4:32:19she picks up whatever he dropped and
4:32:22goes into the truck
4:32:29that yeah Max says why back in if he was
4:32:31fine
4:32:37this is uh January 27th
4:32:412020 at just after 10 in the morning
4:32:45and then they come back at 2 14.
4:32:54Joey says ganon's wearing the same pants
4:32:55he was found in so yeah I'm just showing
4:32:58it to you again so you could re-watch
4:32:59this I'll time stamp it and everything
4:33:02because it's a bit brighter this footage
4:33:07Victoria says thanks to you I never knew
4:33:08you could pinch and zoom on a video yeah
4:33:10you can
4:33:14not squirrel thank you so much for your
4:33:17super sticker
4:33:20and Anita says so you saw him get out
4:33:23and go back in nope I did not
4:33:25all I've ever said is that they say
4:33:28there's a shadow under the car and when
4:33:29you go to this video and any other
4:33:31videos posted over people see all sorts
4:33:33Shadows they see ganon's head on the
4:33:35other side of the truck they see him
4:33:37getting out I don't know the police
4:33:38probably cause affidavit that we've got
4:33:40over many times say Gannon returned home
4:33:42with Leticia and they believe he was
4:33:45murdered in the home in his bedroom
4:33:46between the time they got back at 2 14
4:33:49pm and
4:33:52whenever she called
4:33:53and if we think of the timelines
4:33:55probably between then quarter past two
4:33:57and half past three because Elena came
4:33:58back from school at half past three and
4:33:59then was told to play outside for a bit
4:34:01longer
4:34:08okay so they're going to be driving off
4:34:10now
4:34:12no he's in the truck
4:34:13so that's what I mean can you see my
4:34:15cursor this is from this is a tree
4:34:18this here is that tree I was talking
4:34:19about earlier that's in the way look as
4:34:20the truck moves these These are still
4:34:22here
4:34:23so this is not gannon's face again and
4:34:25this is a tree
4:34:29yeah where the wind blow says Chris what
4:34:31you couldn't see both kids either and I
4:34:33read
4:34:36okay Court's gonna be back within the
4:34:37next five minutes
4:34:47so that's when they leave just after 10
4:34:49in the morning and then this is when
4:34:51they come back at 2 14 p.m and she's
4:34:54back in a hurry
4:34:59beep boop says if you look closely light
4:35:01t-shirt pops up in frame almost like
4:35:02it's edited and that's very I could
4:35:04watch this footage 20 million times over
4:35:07it's grainy because you could see
4:35:10um the neighbor Roger Grayton filmed it
4:35:12with his phone
4:35:15the police have the footage directly
4:35:18from him but what we've seen in the
4:35:19media is the TV being filmed with the
4:35:22surveillance footage so it's really not
4:35:25great quality to really analyze then you
4:35:28know
4:35:29so we could see a bit but not much
4:35:32okay we've got five minutes at most to
4:35:34go
4:35:45she's backing up and she can't really uh
4:35:48Jenna say she can't back up with a crap
4:35:51Eileen it's difficult for me to point
4:35:53out the shadow because I myself cannot
4:35:55see the shadow
4:35:56versus why I'll watch this at night when
4:35:59I can't sleep I'm like let's look at
4:36:01this again
4:36:05and when she's going in and out in and
4:36:06look at it yeah this is total suspect
4:36:08she's using else truck here
4:36:12and he just said Do you believe he's in
4:36:13the truck I'm just not so sure
4:36:16I hear you the reason I think he is and
4:36:20he either got out on the other side or
4:36:21Leticia carried him in from the other
4:36:23side is because they say he was murdered
4:36:26in his bedroom that afternoon and we've
4:36:28seen all the evidence in his bedroom
4:36:37Steve says why was the neighbor filming
4:36:38with his phone I don't know the neighbor
4:36:40filmed his own surveillance on a TV well
4:36:43with these fine I suppose he did not to
4:36:45I don't know put it out there I don't
4:36:46know maybe he could have downloaded it
4:36:47and put it out there not sure
4:36:51but I'm happy that he has this footage
4:36:52and then he went over all his footage to
4:36:54find this this was wow this was a
4:36:57missing endangered child case in the
4:37:00beginning
4:37:01and this made people really go wait what
4:37:04because they couldn't see Gannon get out
4:37:06the truck especially not where he got in
4:37:08and so they're like wait wait but this
4:37:10seems like it could be Foul Play What's
4:37:11Happening Here and people really started
4:37:13asking questions which is why I like
4:37:15Tisha then her name's Leticia but we say
4:37:18Leticia yes
4:37:20um so there she goes carrying who knows
4:37:22what
4:37:25I can't I'll put that on the screen in a
4:37:27moment just look now if you guys see a
4:37:28shadow or something that's what people
4:37:29talk about
4:37:31so
4:37:34um black cat says cheers for your hard
4:37:35work Grizz and fury uh love Maya and
4:37:38bear kitty cute bear Kitty thank you so
4:37:41much
4:37:42so re-watch this if you want I'll time
4:37:45stamp everything and then I'll also put
4:37:47the link to this video in the
4:37:48description box after the stream okay
4:37:51so we could watch it over and over again
4:37:52okay quotes back quotes back
4:37:57no not that wait where is it
4:38:00WebEx don't be naughty now
4:38:07welcome to the afternoon session
4:38:16Leticia is having the time of her life
4:38:18look at her
4:38:20I can't hear any sound yet can you guys
4:38:22okay wait
4:38:26I don't think the sound is on yet
4:38:28let's zoom into this quickly
4:38:50I don't hear any sound I think there's
4:38:52no sound yet I'm just saying
4:39:02everybody's fighting in let's see I
4:39:04don't know what what is Leticia reading
4:39:05there
4:39:06and thank you again to everyone for the
4:39:08coffees um drinky coffee
4:39:18just want to check yep test it
4:39:21okay it's working so it's just not on
4:39:24yet
4:39:25sorry about that
4:39:38Robin rooster is my first opportunity to
4:39:41jump into chat is everyone relieved this
4:39:42video today yes
4:39:44absolutely
4:39:55okay prepare ourselves for round two
4:39:58Friday happy Friday if you're only
4:39:59joining now welcome to the stream if you
4:40:02ever feel overwhelmed when you see damn
4:40:04these Court these trial days right it's
4:40:06like eight hours don't worry if you
4:40:08click on one of my replays I sit there
4:40:10okay I've time stamped everything for
4:40:12you meaning you can very easily navigate
4:40:14to key moments throughout the trial day
4:40:18so I make it super easy for you
4:40:20to do that because I myself
4:40:23hate it if I see an eight hour live
4:40:25stream and I gotta scroll scroll to find
4:40:27things
4:40:29so I make that easy
4:40:31Anita thank you so much thank you g for
4:40:33this amazing coverage I love being a
4:40:34grizzly
4:40:36ah thank you so much
4:40:39yeah perimeter lights check
4:40:42let's see if the judge is here outside
4:40:43the privilege of the jury at this point
4:40:45in time prosecution judge just briefly
4:40:48in this is really sort of just a
4:40:50continuation of the last
4:40:52um
4:40:53conversation we had off the without the
4:40:56jury being present and it relates to uh
4:40:58Mr goosing's uh prior testimony at least
4:41:01as to its his qualifications and was
4:41:04part of the basis for why um defense was
4:41:07uh was basing their objections on at the
4:41:11beginning of his testimony we went
4:41:12through his background and
4:41:15um
4:41:15experience and trainings and whatnot he
4:41:18started talking about
4:41:20um having trained with vau and being
4:41:22trained by profilers but he said that
4:41:25he's not himself a profiler that's on in
4:41:27testimony and I think it's important to
4:41:29keep that in mind too when we're talking
4:41:30about the things that defense is
4:41:32bringing up well I actually was thinking
4:41:34about it over
4:41:35um
4:41:36sorry I was thinking about it over
4:41:39the lunch hour and if we get to that
4:41:44[Music]
4:41:44um
4:41:46if we get to that place in this
4:41:48testimony I have an instruction that
4:41:50I'll be giving that essentially mirrors
4:41:55168 109 and in addition informs uh the
4:42:00jury that Mr gruesing is not being
4:42:02offered as an expert on the subject of
4:42:04Psychiatry or psychology and you should
4:42:06not accept his his testimony as expert
4:42:09testimony
4:42:11yeah so and it gives them the language
4:42:15of 168 109 that he can give an opinion
4:42:18regarding conversations contacts those
4:42:20sorts of things but that was the last
4:42:22sentence so yeah and in in relation to I
4:42:25think what you're talking about there
4:42:27judge and correct me if I'm wrong if I'm
4:42:28on the wrong track on this but as it
4:42:31relates to that question that we've been
4:42:32asking some witnesses about did you
4:42:34develop an opinion as to sanity right um
4:42:37again just further record of what Mr
4:42:41gruesing's basis for any opinion would
4:42:43be
4:42:44in this interview and we've already
4:42:45heard part of it where he's asking her
4:42:47direct questions about mental health and
4:42:49she says in her own words that she was
4:42:52of sound mind he asked the question are
4:42:53you sound mind she says right and then
4:42:55she gives an explanation she gives
4:42:56explanations about having anxiety and
4:42:59being on lorazepam and so any opinion
4:43:01that we would ask of Mr gruesome would
4:43:04be based on those phone calls in this
4:43:06particular interview which there's I
4:43:08think enough record being made for him
4:43:10to do that under that 16-8 and you just
4:43:13said the statute number what I'm
4:43:14blanking on IT 109 109 thank you
4:43:17um I think there is a sufficient basis
4:43:20already for him to do that obviously
4:43:22we're not to that point yet that I'm
4:43:24going to be asking that but there
4:43:25certainly is a sufficient basis for that
4:43:27all right well we will cross that bridge
4:43:30uh when we get there
4:43:33um is there anything else that we need
4:43:35to address at this point in time no
4:43:36judge defense okay let's go ahead and
4:43:38bring the jury in
4:43:43yeah that camera's right
4:43:46yeah
4:43:47no that's true yeah no that's true you
4:43:50can't
4:43:51that's that's over here I don't know
4:43:54what it's related to but I the buttons
4:43:55are mine over here so you don't have to
4:43:57worry about that and Judd when we get
4:43:59started we'll need the screen turned
4:44:00back right yeah
4:44:02and uh Mr gruesing if you would resume
4:44:04your seat in the witness stand I remind
4:44:05you sir that you're still under oath
4:44:33ready for the knives
4:44:37buckle up everyone
4:44:40foreign
4:44:42gloves
4:44:46oh that's right okay
4:44:48the court doesn't have blankets stand
4:44:49out to everybody no I was I was about to
4:44:52suggest that everybody can keep their
4:44:53jackets on
4:44:54all rise for the jury please
4:45:01I was on the left hand side of the
4:45:03screen
4:45:03in the black Jersey the next winner
4:45:07Landon is behind him that's yeah
4:45:10his biological father and mother
4:45:17's apparently since we
4:45:23Court will recall 20 cr1358 people
4:45:26versus Leticia Stout records should
4:45:28reflect the jury has returned to the
4:45:29courtroom
4:45:30um good afternoon ladies and gentlemen
4:45:32when we took our break we were in the
4:45:34midst of a testimony from Mr gruesing
4:45:37that's where we will resume
4:45:40Mr Allen thank you Lauren and just so
4:45:42that we're on the same page as far as
4:45:44the record we just listened to a and
4:45:46watched a portion of the interview from
4:45:49uh timestamps one hour one minute 20
4:45:52second through one hour 26 minutes and
4:45:5458 seconds
4:45:56um
4:45:57in the beginning of this portion of the
4:45:59interview
4:46:00um you asked the defendant to describe
4:46:03um
4:46:04that fire uh in the basement do you
4:46:07remember that yes
4:46:09she gives you some extraneous
4:46:10information there uh specifically like
4:46:13Kobe Bryant was it consistent that when
4:46:16you would start getting into particular
4:46:18points of interest as it relates to the
4:46:21alleged crimes here that she would give
4:46:22these extraneous details yes and that
4:46:25was consistent through the phone calls
4:46:27as well
4:46:28in your from your perspective was that
4:46:31another distraction attempt to sort of
4:46:33create these tangents off of the main
4:46:34path of uh what you're trying to drive
4:46:37towards yes
4:46:42cell phones please
4:46:45apparently the cell phone wants me to
4:46:46repeat it judge I don't know
4:46:50you're whoever uh
4:46:53you had asked about details about this
4:46:56fire
4:46:57um in this particular portion in
4:47:00like color of flame those Heights of the
4:47:04Flames why were you asking those
4:47:05questions
4:47:07well as I explained before the video the
4:47:09candle was a significant incident she
4:47:12had been talking about that since
4:47:14February 13th that I came on that Ganon
4:47:17sustained serious burns from that that
4:47:20caused him even to bleed and I wanted to
4:47:22see how she described
4:47:24the not only the candle but the fire
4:47:27itself and how he was injured
4:47:31what was your perspective of that
4:47:34either reluctance or unwillingness to
4:47:36share details of the fire the the colors
4:47:39of the Flames the height of the flames
4:47:41uh why why is that potentially
4:47:43significant to you in this interview
4:47:47well I tried multiple times to get her
4:47:49to explain to me what she saw and I I
4:47:53tried to give her different prompts on
4:47:55maybe even motioning with her hand how
4:47:57tall it might be or how hot it was or
4:48:00colors and
4:48:02she was not comfortable doing that okay
4:48:06there was also discussion about the
4:48:07burns on Ganon she describes on one hand
4:48:11that there were little burns on his arms
4:48:13and then says by Monday they're peeling
4:48:15um any significance to that for you that
4:48:18seems to be some Divergent
4:48:20um statements as to the severity of
4:48:22these Burns
4:48:25yes in our
4:48:26phone call on February 13th she was
4:48:28saying that Gannon was peeling and
4:48:30peeling his Burns and that they were
4:48:32very bloody and that's a lot different
4:48:34from how she was describing those to me
4:48:36in this interview in that particular and
4:48:40you're referring back to a different one
4:48:41of these recorded calls that we listened
4:48:43to right
4:48:44um did that appear to be from your
4:48:46perspective a way to explain why there
4:48:48would be blood on his walls and in his
4:48:50bedroom yes
4:48:52so again to explain away important
4:48:54details in the investigation yes
4:48:58in this particular discussion of the
4:49:01fire in the basement
4:49:03um she gives a long description about
4:49:05opening Windows and how people are
4:49:07sleeping upstairs everybody is but then
4:49:09Gannon ends up downstairs
4:49:10did that appear to be an isolation of
4:49:13gaining based on the way you're hearing
4:49:15that
4:49:16yeah it didn't make sense to me at the
4:49:20time on why he would be back down there
4:49:22but I decided not to press it
4:49:25um does that also
4:49:27um I guess building on that the fact
4:49:29that she describes all the windows being
4:49:31opened we're talking about mid to late
4:49:34January likely very cold in there uh was
4:49:37that significant at all to you
4:49:39yeah I wasn't really taking in all of
4:49:42that but
4:49:44I didn't think from talking with El Paso
4:49:47the sheriff's office that there was
4:49:49such a cause for so much smoke and
4:49:52inhalation and windows being opened okay
4:49:56um next I want to ask you about um
4:49:58during this interview did you ask her
4:50:00about
4:50:01um whether she went to work on that
4:50:02Monday January 27th yes I did okay so
4:50:06we're going to jump to one hour 27
4:50:07minutes
4:50:08um flat
4:50:21and we're going to play from one hour 27
4:50:24minutes to one hour 29 minutes and 42
4:50:26seconds
4:50:32it was I said um I told Albert I said
4:50:36hey I'll just say
4:50:44foreign
4:51:06thank you
4:51:08right what did you tell your school as
4:51:11far as why you didn't show up that day
4:51:13for that I didn't talk to them about
4:51:15anything
4:51:16your school you didn't I think did you
4:51:18just not sure what was waiting on you
4:51:22the okay so what happened was I changed
4:51:25the [ __ ] and I was like okay
4:51:29have to be something until this point I
4:51:34can't think of that so how to do
4:51:36something
4:51:36just not have money or whatever so like
4:51:41I don't do anything
4:51:51the regular Southern position and then
4:51:54so then I just at that point it was
4:51:56going to just call in whenever I could
4:51:58work
4:52:00better than that you know I could just
4:52:02call in whenever I want
4:52:06before were you scheduled to show up
4:52:08then Monday morning
4:52:10from the school that I wasn't going to
4:52:12work at anymore
4:52:14I didn't even complete paperwork with
4:52:16them yet so it wasn't even I wasn't
4:52:18telling on you to show up that day what
4:52:22do you mean but I had like I hadn't
4:52:25signed any contracts I hadn't like done
4:52:28anything with them because the whole
4:52:30playlist was not going to be teaching
4:52:31them
4:52:33okay yeah I'll get you to any sign
4:52:35contracts but were they planning for you
4:52:37to come in to do something on Monday and
4:52:39you had to call in I never called in on
4:52:41Monday I've already told him no on
4:52:44Thursday or Friday
4:52:45okay on Thursday or Friday I had already
4:52:48told them that I wasn't coming in like
4:52:51for I didn't go in Friday either like
4:52:53I'd already told them I wasn't so it was
4:52:55like you're asking me about if I told
4:52:57them Monday I'd already told them prior
4:53:00oh you'd already told them so you didn't
4:53:01have to tell them you're not coming in
4:53:02on Monday right because I'd already told
4:53:04him because he on my dad's side there
4:53:06was someone who passed away
4:53:11the following was a prior week
4:53:17so Mr bushing um when she's giving you
4:53:20this answer what information did you
4:53:22have already about her employment on
4:53:25that Monday
4:53:26I had and I think in the four o'clock AM
4:53:29hour she had texted to say
4:53:31one of her relatives that got hit by a
4:53:33car and was killed and that's why she
4:53:36was not coming into work
4:53:38and the way that she's describing it it
4:53:40sounds like she's saying that this was a
4:53:42text that she sent the previous week to
4:53:44a different school as opposed to the one
4:53:46that she was now supposed to work at on
4:53:48Monday January 27th that's correct
4:53:51what was uh significant of that to you
4:53:55I was attempting to walk her through her
4:53:58own timeline that she had provided us on
4:54:01the the Sunday night burn injuries and
4:54:04then what happened Monday morning and
4:54:07that was the next logical thing that she
4:54:09should have been describing to uh to me
4:54:12and then like you said she put it back
4:54:14on either Thursday or Friday okay
4:54:18the reason that she gives in that
4:54:21portion of the interview is that she
4:54:23didn't want to go back into teaching
4:54:25right yes
4:54:26um did
4:54:29did she ever say in this part of the
4:54:31interview or any other part of the
4:54:33interview or phone calls
4:54:35um having any sort of mental health
4:54:36anxiety issues as related to teaching
4:54:39not that I listened to was it more along
4:54:42the lines of she was just not happy in
4:54:44teaching because of the current
4:54:45environment in schools yes
4:54:54following that portion of the discussion
4:54:56did you ask her to give you a statement
4:54:58about what happens on Monday January
4:55:0027th I did does she then in in her
4:55:03answer is this where she's um asks you
4:55:06I'm going to need some help from you yes
4:55:08right your honor we're going to jump to
4:55:10one hour 32 minutes and 47 seconds and
4:55:13play through one hour 46 minutes and 45
4:55:15seconds
4:55:21thank you your honor
4:55:24myself
4:55:26community and secretary interviews
4:55:35I need to tell me about them next
4:55:37morning so now you're at home Cannon's
4:55:39at home right Elena's at school
4:55:43right so this is already help from
4:55:46everybody yeah
4:55:48and you can get home
4:55:51like I said I've had from My Level
4:55:53informants that have told me some
4:55:54horrific things and we've had to
4:55:56relocate them we can't get different
4:55:58names
4:55:59but to do that to kick that in motion we
4:56:02need to know the story we can't just say
4:56:04oh someone from got really important
4:56:07information
4:56:08well that's where I would need someone
4:56:10to help guide me through this because I
4:56:14want to help
4:56:15more than anything
4:56:17that's why I'm here because I'm
4:56:19representing I'm representing Denver FBI
4:56:22and then I have the ability to pull
4:56:24resources from Quantico which is our
4:56:27Behavior Analysis unit everything comes
4:56:29out of there right it's called certain
4:56:31which is our incident response creative
4:56:34this was a big enough case that the
4:56:37supervisor of the FBI asked me to come
4:56:40down from Denver you know and I get all
4:56:42my training out there so you don't but
4:56:46you're not going to have better
4:56:46resources in this room right now and I'm
4:56:49not bragging right I've just been doing
4:56:51this stuff for a long time right
4:56:53if if you tell me what happens
4:56:57and then you need protection we can do
4:57:00all that stuff
4:57:02DEA doesn't have those capabilities ATF
4:57:06DEA just investigates drugs and they're
4:57:10very good at it right but the FBI who
4:57:12are now worldwide
4:57:14and we have offices over time to Russia
4:57:18to China took forever
4:57:20we get a lot more funding because when
4:57:24September 11th happened
4:57:26that changed everything for us we we
4:57:29weren't the nation's number one law
4:57:31enforcement agency before then but they
4:57:34gave us so many more resources since
4:57:36then right and so I am specialized in
4:57:41smithing kids
4:57:44and unusual homes by including serial
4:57:46killings and little girl
4:57:48so I didn't get in right away on your
4:57:50case but I did I have been ripping it
4:57:52for the past couple weeks
4:57:55well I'm here now and whatever you tell
4:57:58me would I mean the worst thing I can do
4:58:00for people like you is if you have a
4:58:03story that requires your protection or
4:58:05the FBI it would not be good for me to
4:58:07run out and say oh Leticia told me this
4:58:09and it's not how it works if this can
4:58:12help us find Gannon we'll do whatever we
4:58:14can
4:58:15not like I'm just I just need like
4:58:18protection for
4:58:24me
4:58:25okay well you can get that but we have
4:58:27to know the story first
4:58:30so how how am I supposed to get help
4:58:32talking to someone first before we talk
4:58:34to you
4:58:35because I'm willing to do that
4:58:38here's your deal if you need help and if
4:58:40you want to go through the court process
4:58:42that's fine we leave and then you you
4:58:46work through the court process
4:58:48but then it just becomes that the whole
4:58:51focus of this Leticia right now you're
4:58:54the only one you're the last one you're
4:58:56the last adult with him
4:58:58you're the last adult we know about with
4:59:00them you have not told anybody anything
4:59:02else to lead us
4:59:04we have been trying to work without to
4:59:08say what does she saying that yeah you
4:59:10know and the Quincy Brown thing and
4:59:12whatever else
4:59:13but a lot of it was keys to help
4:59:17like should have
4:59:18been
4:59:20I could have just reached out to someone
4:59:22to be late
4:59:25terrified for
4:59:28yeah
4:59:31it would have been
4:59:33also what I can help you with you know
4:59:40I'm just saying
4:59:41Leticia you've got to give me something
4:59:43here to work to work with if if you want
4:59:46to go through the court process like I
4:59:47said on here the last question if you
4:59:50want to stop at any time you are more
4:59:52than welcome to start to play but it
4:59:54says it says you can have one present
4:59:57to talk to you yep
5:00:00and that will kick in the court process
5:00:02and then we're done which is fine and if
5:00:05that's what you want
5:00:07okay but the whole
5:00:09if you need protection and that sort of
5:00:12thing I can't get you there without you
5:00:13giving me something
5:00:15so
5:00:18here's
5:00:21I listen to all the calls without
5:00:24and
5:00:27I've seen the crime scene of course
5:00:30okay what happened in the bedroom was
5:00:33not Gannon slinging his blood on the
5:00:35wall
5:00:36well that that's totally like not even
5:00:39to do with anything that's why I'm so
5:00:42like upset about bedrooms and and all
5:00:46those things because I understand you're
5:00:48an expert I know that but I'm telling
5:00:51you that
5:00:53this I'm gonna need like protection
5:00:56that's it it's not me not the person
5:01:00but if you're not the person
5:01:02the charges won't be different
5:01:05okay if you allowed someone up to come
5:01:08in and do the things again and that we
5:01:10know happened to him you're just as
5:01:12guilty I didn't allow anyone and I don't
5:01:15know of anything like you're talking
5:01:18about to be happening I do know that
5:01:21there's something I can tell you that
5:01:22can help you or help me help everyone
5:01:27now yeah
5:01:31let me tell you where I am okay
5:01:34I said I've been 23 years with the FBI
5:01:37for the last 20 I've been working
5:01:38violent fans
5:01:40and I've worked some of the worst cases
5:01:42and he kind of left me up a little bit
5:01:43to be honest right seeing what I've seen
5:01:47and I worked 20 years of Bank profits so
5:01:52for I always thought that you were going
5:01:55to have
5:01:56I'm the FBI I'm the good guy bad people
5:01:59go rob banks
5:02:02I had to help it rest other FBI agents
5:02:06police officers people from the church
5:02:10I mean it doesn't matter what you do and
5:02:13on the other side some of the bank
5:02:15robbers
5:02:16one of them came out after serving a
5:02:1810-year sentence and we had it off just
5:02:20fine even
5:02:24the thing that I have seen though
5:02:26throughout is
5:02:29when something very bad happens people
5:02:32think they can't recover from it
5:02:34and I do not think you are a bad person
5:02:37that's why I'm here no I don't I've seen
5:02:41I've seen that yeah you tell people that
5:02:43to get them to help you no I'm not I
5:02:46would not have this approach with you if
5:02:48I thought you were a bad person
5:02:50I think something bad happened and I
5:02:53think that what I've seen a lot it's
5:02:55whether it's
5:02:57you think that you can get out if you do
5:02:59this or this or this that's where you
5:03:02are now and you're hoping that one of
5:03:03these things can save you
5:03:05they're not going to be able what do you
5:03:07mean what are you talking about them
5:03:10there's no there was nobody else there
5:03:13we've looked at the alarms you've looked
5:03:15at the Motions we've looked at the
5:03:17detectors the alarms are already covered
5:03:19up
5:03:20the alarms were already covered now
5:03:23okay
5:03:25sir I'm telling you
5:03:28what you have
5:03:31and you're saying this to me if I wasn't
5:03:33whatever I'm telling you it is true I
5:03:37would not I did not would not did not
5:03:41and with you guys having my phone
5:03:45I would have thought that you would have
5:03:47had some of the apps
5:03:48with vintage
5:03:50now I would have thought but sometimes
5:03:53when you talk to Albert and you want to
5:03:54listen to or whatever it could have been
5:03:57some help and indication
5:03:59I really did
5:04:01because I couldn't come at you and just
5:04:03tell you if I
5:04:05you say there's somebody not involved
5:04:09I could walk you through it and prove it
5:04:11to you and you guys have already had
5:04:13this predetermination I don't need
5:04:15a first-time 15. you guys have already
5:04:17had this free determination that's
5:04:19what's going on
5:04:21it's already in your mindset yeah
5:04:23because we have no other evidence
5:04:25pointing us elsewhere
5:04:27if there was a shred of evidence Leticia
5:04:30that pointed us to some other person we
5:04:33would be all right we've been with
5:04:35Quincy Brown came out of your mouth it
5:04:37doesn't take long
5:04:39um you know 100 he's in Mexico right yes
5:04:42we do now
5:04:44all right
5:04:47because we did get our league out we
5:04:49have what's called a legal attache okay
5:04:55we're not alone and I get that you're
5:04:58saying you have someone who looked into
5:05:00that and knows that
5:05:02that's where I know in my heart that I
5:05:05can't trust to get help that marry me
5:05:08you're saying Quincy Brands no that's
5:05:11not what I'm saying but you would have
5:05:13said another word like something in
5:05:15between that that would have gave that
5:05:17off
5:05:18like you wouldn't have said he's just in
5:05:20Mexico in building things he would have
5:05:23said oh did he come back here for a
5:05:25reason you you wouldn't said any that
5:05:27you would have known some other things
5:05:28too or maybe you haven't you just can't
5:05:30tell me this
5:05:31and that's okay
5:05:33but
5:05:36we don't in a case like this so tips
5:05:40will come in you know the public and
5:05:43then of course you and Al our primary
5:05:45interest because you're the parents of
5:05:46the missing kid and most ninety percent
5:05:49of the time when a kid goes missing it
5:05:51has to do with one of the parents
5:05:53okay
5:05:57so and especially with you then
5:06:00you're there you say he went to a
5:06:02neighbor's house that's the very first
5:06:04thing you say
5:06:06and then there's no thought that
5:06:08somebody took him
5:06:10so there's no salt there's no thoughts
5:06:13toward law enforcement when you when
5:06:15using what happened leading up to the
5:06:19days before nothing to do again and
5:06:21nothing to do in terms of meeting
5:06:24I love Gannon
5:06:27with all my heart
5:06:28and so you can sit here and say 90
5:06:31parents this is
5:06:35I'd love to I'm saying that even I have
5:06:38had times when my son rolled the
5:06:40basketball underneath that I want to
5:06:42turn around and right do something and
5:06:44then I would have regretted it later but
5:06:45you're saying what you're saying to me
5:06:47is
5:06:48speak is that I heard Cannon and I don't
5:06:52think it was intentional okay but I
5:06:54didn't hurt you okay and I didn't either
5:06:57intentional or not intentional for being
5:07:00it I did not that's just not what
5:07:03happened
5:07:04okay and I had this conversation with
5:07:07you just to see for a second if I could
5:07:10get help from you which you can but you
5:07:12how can you expect me to help you
5:07:14Leticia if you're not going to tell me
5:07:15what happened you can't go just so I
5:07:18mean
5:07:20you can unlock the entire resources of
5:07:22the FBI right now I've told you that but
5:07:26then you say that you're not willing to
5:07:27do it whether you don't trust me or you
5:07:30think that there's these things
5:07:34that's from what we can see yeah
5:07:37statement in the basement Right Movement
5:07:39upstairs but you've already told me that
5:07:41based on that okay but what you're not
5:07:44realizing is there's two sensors on that
5:07:47home okay two two that can easily be
5:07:50manipulated easily okay and if you even
5:07:53knew anything about prior you would be
5:07:57thinking a lot differently but see
5:07:59that's why I can't talk to you about
5:08:02these things because if you already have
5:08:04predetermined it doesn't matter what I
5:08:06pray to turn
5:08:08unintentionally and that's not the case
5:08:10I think I'm right 100 of the time
5:08:13it doesn't you need to just disregard
5:08:16whatever I think or really whatever
5:08:17anybody else thinks if you have a truth
5:08:21and if you have something that will help
5:08:23us finding
5:08:24really the hell with me and everybody
5:08:26else but what we think
5:08:28you should just cast that aside all we
5:08:31all I can follow is the facts are the
5:08:33case as they're told to me
5:08:35and so for me to go somewhere else
5:08:37besides the facts I have to then go back
5:08:39to the facts to check it
5:08:44[Music]
5:08:50but I will
5:08:52but I need your help and I need to know
5:08:55that you told me those resources you
5:08:57tell me whatever okay I know you're
5:09:00saying you got whatever is this not and
5:09:02all that for that
5:09:04it really is going to need help
5:09:08a lot
5:09:10where do you
5:09:13don't based on some alarm report so they
5:09:15can easily
5:09:16they easily want to I know I'm saying
5:09:18when you're saying no one else
5:09:20was there
5:09:26because that was not
5:09:28even remotely
5:09:30with my
5:09:33not even
5:09:40Mr gruerson I just remind you that
5:09:42you're still under oath
5:09:45at the beginning of that portion of the
5:09:48interview Mr gruesing
5:09:50um you go through a description of if
5:09:52you allowed somebody else to come into
5:09:53the house and do bad things to Gannon
5:09:55then you're just as guilty why were you
5:09:57going down that path and explaining
5:09:59that's where
5:10:02um well it had to do with the numerous
5:10:04stories that she had told us and out
5:10:06over the phone
5:10:08and just whatever complicitor she was
5:10:11going to make with me
5:10:13I was wanting to move more directly
5:10:15towards
5:10:16her involvement
5:10:18so just saying that if she was going to
5:10:20introduce yet another person uh like the
5:10:23last one that she introduced was the
5:10:25pregnant lady and it didn't really have
5:10:27any lights to stand on
5:10:28we weren't I didn't want her to go down
5:10:30that path again
5:10:32so was was that you trying to encourage
5:10:34her to talk about her actions as opposed
5:10:35to pointing it out to the different
5:10:37people yes okay what about the
5:10:39discussion you have where you're talking
5:10:41about the good guys the bad guys Dynamic
5:10:43and that whole thing arresting bank
5:10:46robbers what was that purpose of that
5:10:48uh to tell Leticia basically that she
5:10:51was a good person and that good people
5:10:53can do bad things
5:10:57in that portion of the interview she
5:10:59says she couldn't just come at you and
5:11:01tell you what had happened
5:11:03um
5:11:04what was your take from from that
5:11:06particular point of the interview
5:11:09well I don't I don't know if this is the
5:11:11same thing you're talking about but she
5:11:12told me that she had keys or some type
5:11:15of keys she was trying to give us but
5:11:17that she couldn't tell us directly what
5:11:19happened
5:11:20and to me that meant that she had been
5:11:21giving us hints along uh doing the
5:11:25different phone calls through Al because
5:11:26he had already told me that she knew
5:11:28that I and others were listening that's
5:11:31exactly what I was talking about where
5:11:32she's um telling you basically that I've
5:11:34been trying to give hints throughout
5:11:36this whole thing
5:11:37um
5:11:38were there in fact some hints in her
5:11:41various statements absolutely can you
5:11:43give us examples of that please
5:11:46well she mentioned that again and was
5:11:50not in Colorado and either the phone
5:11:52call on February 19th or 21st I think it
5:11:55was the 19th and then she told Al that
5:11:57he's not in the U.S and we later learned
5:12:00that's close to being true
5:12:02she also as we've spoken of numerous
5:12:05times described the injuries and she was
5:12:09even describing time periods that we
5:12:12were interested in like the the night
5:12:14before the two trips to Costco and what
5:12:17had happened in between those two trips
5:12:19and then when she would come home what
5:12:22happened after she arrived back at the
5:12:25house and yeah so if when you compile
5:12:28them all together she was describing a
5:12:30lot of what had happened uh separately
5:12:32through the investigation being done by
5:12:34El Paso County Sheriff's Office and and
5:12:37when you talk about that it was almost
5:12:38true that Gannon wasn't in the United
5:12:40States are you referring to where Ganon
5:12:42was later found uh on the essentially A
5:12:45banks of a river that flows into the
5:12:47Gulf of Mexico yes okay down in Florida
5:13:01why did you tell her um that you don't
5:13:03think it was intentional what in the way
5:13:06you're implying it in that statement is
5:13:07you don't think what she did to Ganon
5:13:10was intentional why'd you say that
5:13:12well in her first statement that I was
5:13:15present for with Al on the 13th February
5:13:18she said that Gannon gannon's first
5:13:21injury in her timeline was that he cut
5:13:23his foot on Saturday
5:13:25and then she went on to other things
5:13:26that had happened and
5:13:29uh in my experience with domestic
5:13:32violence I had seen that an accident
5:13:35might precede something intentional and
5:13:37I was giving her the opportunity to say
5:13:39that if she wanted to
5:13:41was that a essentially you building it
5:13:43out for her to
5:13:45feel better about telling you what
5:13:47actually happened again
5:13:48yes and still just trying to find any
5:13:51factual information from her on injuries
5:13:55to Gannon when they might have occurred
5:13:56and it's much easier to talk about an
5:13:58accident than something intentional okay
5:14:01um the next section that I want to talk
5:14:04about is right after this uh do you
5:14:06remember her talking about she reached
5:14:07out to people to go places yes
5:14:10um let's go ahead and play that it's at
5:14:12uh timestamps 146 45 through 1 48 30.
5:14:19so going from directly from here to 148
5:14:2230.
5:14:26so you care about gaming I care about
5:14:28Canon
5:14:29it's about everyday offering for people
5:14:31to go in these certain places
5:14:33to get to get even insight to see an
5:14:37everyday ass hey can you go do this
5:14:40so you've asked someone to go look for
5:14:42him right like I've I reached out and I
5:14:45asked Albert I said hey can you meet me
5:14:47let me tell you about this and let's go
5:14:48to this location to look
5:14:57where do you think he is right now
5:15:00I can I don't know exactly
5:15:04I don't know where where do you know him
5:15:06to like I
5:15:08AM 99 confident scanning is alive okay
5:15:12Leticia where do you know him till last
5:15:18but I I'm in a room
5:15:21and he's already talking about all this
5:15:24and and
5:15:26I'm it's me against everybody else so
5:15:29here's the deal once this thing goes
5:15:31through the corpse you talk about that
5:15:32you're the only one to be with him you
5:15:36think you're going to be able to tell a
5:15:38story
5:15:39it might be a true story
5:15:42[Music]
5:15:44I've listened to a lot of your stories
5:15:46and I don't know what else to tell
5:15:47people yeah okay that's because I was
5:15:49mad at him
5:15:50I already knew I understand what you
5:15:52told the news reporter I've seen what
5:15:53I've listened to what you told El Paso
5:15:55okay about the sexist fault that
5:15:57happened in the house I already knew
5:15:59that you guys were listening to him so I
5:16:01said that because I was angry but what I
5:16:04think I can offer you today
5:16:06is some help
5:16:11so in in the beginning of that portion
5:16:13Mr goosing she's talking about uh she's
5:16:16been trying to reach out to get people
5:16:17to go places
5:16:18do you know of any effort she made to
5:16:20reach out to give information factual
5:16:23information that could be acted on I
5:16:24don't
5:16:30so in this uh
5:16:33basically in in this uh in this
5:16:36interview do you also go through a
5:16:37portion where you're describing that
5:16:39you're looking at her stories and
5:16:40they're just not making sense correct
5:16:42I'm going to jump to one hour 51 minutes
5:16:45and 40 seconds and play one hour 56
5:16:47through 1 hour 56 24.
5:17:04okay so I'm looking at your story
5:17:07uh the ones that you've told the owl the
5:17:09ones that you've said in the media are
5:17:11hitting your head when you hit your head
5:17:13you didn't see what happened
5:17:15and then when
5:17:18someone else takes scan and or when he's
5:17:20riding a bike and he hits his head and
5:17:23stuff right if I I was I just told you I
5:17:26was saying that to Albert because I was
5:17:27upset that he wasn't listening to me
5:17:29that I did not hurt in it I think you
5:17:32intended to understand
5:17:38something bad happened in his room I
5:17:41have you seen that you've helped clean
5:17:45it off the wall we know that is here
5:17:47what you're talking about it completely
5:17:51completely irrelevant about the whole
5:17:54world well that's it bad or whatever
5:17:56tell me about if it's irrelevant Leticia
5:17:59help me because there's a big blood
5:18:01School in the corner there's spray on
5:18:03the wall because if I tell you anything
5:18:05about any of any of that all you're
5:18:07going to
5:18:11if you didn't do it no I will be your
5:18:13Advocate because why do we know each
5:18:16other no I why would I care if you
5:18:20didn't do it and it helps me find Gannon
5:18:23I didn't do it okay well then help me
5:18:25find out who did who did what why that's
5:18:28again and in his room don't want to get
5:18:31anything there's a pool of blood in the
5:18:33corner okay that's Canon's blood Okay so
5:18:38this is where I have a hard time knowing
5:18:40what it is you're like okay trust you or
5:18:42not right you're saying there's a pool
5:18:45above Albert said the author's side
5:18:47because I'm sure you had him say all
5:18:49this I'm sure you're over there whatever
5:18:52okay in his room and you said something
5:18:54about what'd you say
5:18:59then if that's your your whatever your
5:19:02expert advice or whatever okay
5:19:06then
5:19:08where
5:19:10do you think
5:19:12I had any involvement with Gannon and
5:19:16where did he go that's where people
5:19:18God's word has to click at some point
5:19:21that
5:19:22and that's what I listen to you do that
5:19:25to Al to where you're making him guess
5:19:28what happened to Canon I don't want him
5:19:30to guess well no you well you're asking
5:19:33me together no no I was asking
5:19:36I was just saying in general
5:19:39I want
5:19:40told with people understanding I tried
5:19:44to get any insight help to anything but
5:19:48I can't because
5:19:50you know my daughter
5:19:53everyone my family
5:19:55my mom everyone and you can think that
5:19:58but right now Leticia I mean you can go
5:20:01down that road but it's not going to
5:20:03save you in court because you're the
5:20:05last adult listening and nobody else
5:20:07just let me let me try to I'm not trying
5:20:10to hurt you
5:20:12this is actually protecting me if you
5:20:15don't tell us where to go investigate
5:20:18then nobody's going to investigate for
5:20:20you you're the last adult with me you
5:20:22told a lot of lies about all these
5:20:25injuries
5:20:26to you or to any police officer
5:20:30did the sex assault happen in the house
5:20:32I didn't tell any lies to you or police
5:20:34officer
5:20:37you don't have we don't have anybody to
5:20:40chase though we don't chase you
5:20:43do you understand but if you take me
5:20:45okay and you do this to me
5:20:49people are protected because you guys
5:20:51aren't going to protect everybody
5:20:53people are protected
5:20:56we can protect people we can protect you
5:20:58family if this is involved now I've
5:21:01worked South American deaf groups I've
5:21:03worked gangsters I've worked organized
5:21:06crime none of that stuff Rings true with
5:21:09what happened here
5:21:11I mean how how is how is a very
5:21:13organized game going to come into a
5:21:15house in Colorado Springs how why does
5:21:18it have to be
5:21:20in 2014
5:21:22foreign are you going to make me guess
5:21:24where he was then no I'm I'm telling you
5:21:28you're not going to listen to me you
5:21:30already just said the last was in the
5:21:32house you're again you're going back to
5:21:34what you care what I think you shouldn't
5:21:36care what do you care what you think you
5:21:38want to know why
5:21:39because I care about my
5:21:42how people think of me because I am not
5:21:45that kind of person and if you can point
5:21:48me to a different person then I can help
5:21:50you I gave you
5:21:52so it stopped at 156-26
5:21:58when when the discussion about the
5:22:00riding the bike and Quincy Brown came up
5:22:03um she stopped here and said uh
5:22:06basically she gives a description of she
5:22:08was just saying that to Al do you
5:22:09remember that portion yes was that her
5:22:12basically admitting that what she had
5:22:13told in that particular story that
5:22:15Quincy Brown that whole thing was not
5:22:17true correct
5:22:21what about the uh portion of the
5:22:23discussion where
5:22:25um you point out that are you trying to
5:22:27make I'll guess are you trying to make
5:22:28me guess what was your intent of of
5:22:31making that distinction there and what
5:22:33were you trying to get to
5:22:34well I had asked her a question about
5:22:37the blood in the bedroom trying to get
5:22:39her to explain that to me and instead
5:22:41she posed the question to me that if she
5:22:44was responsible where was Gannon it's an
5:22:46open-ended question that only she knew
5:22:49and as I told Leticia I had seen her do
5:22:53this to Al while I heard her do it out
5:22:55while we were in the room multiple times
5:22:58when it's a direct question we need an
5:23:00answer or I needed one for the blood and
5:23:03instead she's asking me where Gannon is
5:23:05and she knows that I don't know the
5:23:06answer
5:23:08um did it appear from your perspective
5:23:10that that was intentionally trying to
5:23:12not give you information as to what
5:23:13happened in the room or to Gannon
5:23:15yes both
5:23:19did you confront her with uh web
5:23:22searches that were done on her phone yes
5:23:24I'm going to jump to that portion of the
5:23:26interview and this is uh
5:23:29one hour 56 minutes and 52 seconds
5:23:32through two hours and 10 seconds
5:23:46as you know in here I even have what you
5:23:48entered in your phone
5:23:50the stuff that you've entered and
5:23:52deleted
5:23:54like um blood is burning from an
5:23:57arterial bleed direct pressure not
5:23:59controlling do what I don't know
5:24:02it's from your phone what is what
5:24:05spreading from an arterial bleed
5:24:07no somebody did from your phone I don't
5:24:11like my stepson no I don't want my
5:24:14stepson should I get a divorce
5:24:17[ __ ] cheating
5:24:19Instagram I'll start cheating in
5:24:22Colorado Springs
5:24:23agile start cheating
5:24:26how to get blood out of sheep out of
5:24:28sheep
5:24:30I want a music The Blood on the sheets
5:24:33was because we always had like and
5:24:34always nose bleed if I ever lose the
5:24:37blood of the sheep it was nosebleeds
5:24:39I didn't ever look up anything about an
5:24:41artery or something unless it went from
5:24:43something else and I never looked up
5:24:46anything about my stepson or someone
5:24:48else did it but the reason I brought up
5:24:50games is you you uh looked up I want
5:24:53immunity because it was gang related
5:24:56and this sounds like
5:24:59me a new husband find me a rich guy who
5:25:02has to take care of his kids though the
5:25:05new husband is just because Albert
5:25:07already knew that was about the lady
5:25:09baby Cheryl who had a who wanted to find
5:25:12a new husband after 35 or something he
5:25:13picked me about Amazon like a lot of
5:25:15these can have nothing to do with this
5:25:17it doesn't
5:25:20spray can I spray paint the wood
5:25:24spray paint Woods well we always were
5:25:25doing yeah
5:25:27I'm doing all the work for my stepkids
5:25:29and their mom doesn't help oh that
5:25:31bothered me yeah yeah oh yes because I
5:25:34wanted them to be mine like
5:25:36like what about us
5:25:38you Googled a lot on Leticia and traffic
5:25:42accident hit and run no
5:25:46what was that
5:25:48what what date was it it I don't have a
5:25:50date on these I just I was downloading
5:25:52stuff because I was coming on the plane
5:25:54yeah I know my husband went to divorce
5:25:57my husband wants a baby but I want an
5:25:59abortion
5:26:02one day some people will wish they
5:26:05treated you differently which I get that
5:26:07parenting should be four people not one
5:26:11of the suicidal person might say
5:26:14I mean these make me very sad when I
5:26:16read them because I can see you're doing
5:26:18all the work at home by yourself which I
5:26:21wanted to be there like I wanted to
5:26:23totally have the kids as my children
5:26:26that's the point you're not getting like
5:26:29I wanted those kids to be saying to me
5:26:33that I'm their mom like I am the person
5:26:36who does it
5:26:37hears of them loves them everything
5:26:40so you can see that what about what do
5:26:43you do if you suspect a person swallow
5:26:45poison that somebody actually swallowed
5:26:47for poison I don't know I always click
5:26:50things and read them did somebody
5:26:53swallow it no one swallowed any poison
5:26:57you will never forgive me and treat me
5:26:59like a princess you'll never know when
5:27:01it's too late oh yeah I mean I always
5:27:03search for things in Alberta
5:27:06so in that particular portion um you
5:27:09mentioned the immunity was there a
5:27:11particular phone calls um during the
5:27:13consensual record of phone calls process
5:27:14where she was also saying the same thing
5:27:16to Al and those phone calls yes there
5:27:19was it was one of the earlier phone
5:27:20calls I was involved in
5:27:22did you ask her to describe what
5:27:23injuries Gannon suffered a little bit
5:27:25later after this yes I'm gonna jump to
5:27:28time stamp two hours and 50 seconds
5:27:39and play through uh two hours eight
5:27:41minutes and 55 seconds
5:27:43everything if you're not willing to go
5:27:46with who took Gannon can you at least
5:27:48tell me what injuries he suffered
5:27:51the true ones
5:27:52as far as the cut foot was that a legit
5:27:55injury
5:27:56and where did that happen
5:27:58oh he was outside in the garage and when
5:28:01he was outside in the garage he was
5:28:03running to go help me take this Josh
5:28:06I'll come back and help me get struck by
5:28:07the car and then he stepped on something
5:28:10which I left the blood there
5:28:13like I left it like because Albert said
5:28:15don't touch that fine wood or Africa or
5:28:18whatever it kind of wood what what did
5:28:20the piece of wood look like
5:28:23okay and it's still there in the garage
5:28:26I I had to drive over all the time
5:28:30like I always had to drive
5:28:33to drop the people right but you didn't
5:28:35take that out of the garage it's too big
5:28:36you couldn't offend it in anything you
5:28:38couldn't offense to pieces the
5:28:40Longboards that were in the garage
5:28:44okay so there was a piece of board that
5:28:46I threw in the back
5:28:47stroke and then there was the two long
5:28:50boards that were sitting there so they
5:28:53said the board I was about like this
5:28:55size in the board that was the
5:28:57Longboards that were sitting here I left
5:28:59the longboards because I don't know that
5:29:02was supposed to be the fancy wood and I
5:29:03didn't want to avoid we're trying to get
5:29:05the blood off of it the other piece of
5:29:07wood was the wood that I threw in the
5:29:10back of our truck yeah what was that
5:29:12there was a bunch of pieces that were
5:29:14laying around that from that night from
5:29:16us running through there was like little
5:29:19pieces there was a piece about the size
5:29:21maybe a couple pieces
5:29:23but that's still in the back of the
5:29:25truck
5:29:27that that bigger piece you said bigger
5:29:30like this it wasn't my fish okay yeah it
5:29:32was um
5:29:33keyboard like I knew it was not the wood
5:29:35that he would be freaking out over
5:29:37so from Sunday that's
5:29:40he did hurt his foot and how badly was
5:29:44it moving it wasn't
5:29:46I think Sunday Saturday I'm sorry from
5:29:48Saturday Albert had just left like to
5:29:51drive to the airport it wasn't even
5:29:53it wasn't even gone wrong he had just
5:29:56left the drive to the airport
5:29:59did it require a Band-Aid
5:30:02you know when he whenever he always does
5:30:05something he tries to be like he's not
5:30:07like laying over he's like oh I need to
5:30:08be a date or whatever Dana would
5:30:10literally walk around with toilet paper
5:30:12in the middle of his toe and it would
5:30:13have blood or whatever and just run
5:30:16everywhere into his room whatever so
5:30:18what'd he do on this location we we
5:30:20literally took the paper towel that's
5:30:22why I just told you about the toe and
5:30:23put in between so it was in between his
5:30:25toes no he it was like wrapped here we
5:30:29had it wrapped
5:30:30and I don't remember forget about me to
5:30:32be honest this is what Gannon well that
5:30:36doesn't sound like a big answer well it
5:30:37wasn't I mean he was well there was a
5:30:39big injury
5:30:41I left it on the wood because I said I'm
5:30:44not going to clean him fine African wood
5:30:46what did it look like on the wood drops
5:30:49streaks well what I did originally was I
5:30:52was trying to take water to do it but
5:30:54then I realized if I put cleaner then
5:30:57that wouldn't do anything but cause the
5:30:59what the damage because I would always
5:31:01wanted to build things but always
5:31:03and if I use those pieces of wood and
5:31:07all that stuff
5:31:08did you ever use that shop fact to clean
5:31:11up anything out there no I never used
5:31:14the shop the shop that was never I
5:31:16couldn't even
5:31:17anything
5:31:19would have been used with a shop vac
5:31:21would have been Albert other than the
5:31:22times that we brought it
5:31:24weeks ago and we did spring cleaning or
5:31:27fall cleaning around the house in the
5:31:29corners
5:31:31so that would have been the shock back I
5:31:33never there was nothing I ever did and
5:31:35vacuumed up something with the shops
5:31:39like he knew that
5:31:41there's none of that ever happened so
5:31:45the burn from the arms weren't that bad
5:31:47the the cut on the toe or the bottom of
5:31:49the foot broken down so we still were
5:31:51able to go hiking even
5:31:53he was able to still go like it was
5:31:55bleeding on the board
5:31:59not only the house but sort of thing
5:32:01well he had the piece of paper and went
5:32:03down to his room
5:32:05yeah like wrapped around the foot so I
5:32:07mean if anything there was it could have
5:32:09been drawn to their letters no what
5:32:11about the wounds of the head that you
5:32:13talked out about so Albert was like
5:32:15trying to get me to say whatever because
5:32:17I'm sure you guys are having to do that
5:32:20so Albert was trying to get me to say
5:32:22that like talk about talk to him about
5:32:24you know or you know whatever so I threw
5:32:28out some stories to Albert because he
5:32:29was making me so upset just like
5:32:34everyone not understanding that
5:32:37interventions
5:32:40there's a there's someone intervening in
5:32:43them and that's where people didn't
5:32:45understand and want to say anything so I
5:32:46just started rambling stuff to Albert
5:32:48and I even said to you guys hey
5:32:51you know and it was just
5:32:57[Music]
5:33:00and then you say and the previous
5:33:02headband happened where it was blood
5:33:04running down his face and that sort of
5:33:07thing and it you know had to bandage it
5:33:09out and well I don't remember say
5:33:11anything about Painted you know I think
5:33:13he said Quincy Brown tried to bandage it
5:33:15up oh because he didn't think about
5:33:16it I was gonna say I don't remember me
5:33:18saying I do
5:33:20that so he did suffer ahead
5:33:23yes head or not okay and that's what
5:33:27caused the blood there
5:33:29and so if even if you choose not to tell
5:33:32us where Gannon is today because you're
5:33:34too nervous or whatever else
5:33:36we would like to know where that was on
5:33:38him so if we find him on our own if
5:33:40you've given me the clues to go find him
5:33:42that sort of thing
5:33:44where was that wound
5:33:46he's alive
5:33:49was it his neck or his head I I don't
5:33:52know anything about a neighborhood
5:33:54well you had to clean up the wall you
5:33:56went ahead it was not that is not even
5:33:58from what what you're talking about
5:34:00there had nothing to do with anything
5:34:02from Saturday Sunday and whatever that
5:34:07had nothing to do with Annie that's it
5:34:09no it didn't matter it did not I'm going
5:34:13to have to explain that sir it did not
5:34:15well just tell me how it did not
5:34:20you're not gonna help
5:34:22you better not help you
5:34:24how are you gonna get up Leticia on this
5:34:27band
5:34:28after telling all these stories which
5:34:30we're going to ask you about and then
5:34:32say
5:34:33I can explain all that and it's some
5:34:36party that I never told law enforcement
5:34:38to go chase
5:34:39is alive we have an 11 year old kid
5:34:42somewhere
5:34:44being held against its will and you're
5:34:46not telling us you might as well have
5:34:49done this yourself that's why I'm saying
5:35:32foreign
5:35:52two hours eight minutes and 55 seconds
5:35:57what did she write down in your notebook
5:35:59I just remembered the first part that
5:36:01the head wound was on Saturday
5:36:04you remember it saying uh and had
5:36:06nothing to do with this words to that
5:36:09effect yes
5:36:13what was your take on that that instead
5:36:15of saying it on the camera she wanted to
5:36:17write it down
5:36:19um in your notebook
5:36:21well whether it's by now whether it's
5:36:24the the argument that she didn't want to
5:36:25talk about the the burns
5:36:28and even Colin Gannon Gannon as absent
5:36:32you know I wasn't pushing her I would
5:36:34give her the the opportunity to talk and
5:36:36then she would not talk so I would move
5:36:39on and now that we're to the blood and
5:36:42what happened in the room I think it was
5:36:44too difficult for her to say it out loud
5:36:46with the head wound
5:36:50when
5:36:51um she's going over uh the wound to the
5:36:54head and and then she actually says
5:36:56um
5:36:57she just started throwing out stories
5:36:59because Al was making me mad
5:37:01you remember that portion
5:37:03um
5:37:06what were your thoughts on on that
5:37:07particular part of the interview well
5:37:09that was consistent with what she was
5:37:10telling Al on the phone calls
5:37:13and and Al would continue to push her
5:37:15like we need to find Gannon and then she
5:37:18would say what about our relationship
5:37:21so she would move from finding out what
5:37:23happened again and to her feelings and
5:37:26that's what she was doing here again
5:37:28is this also an example of her blaming
5:37:31others for her behavior yes
5:37:35um did you ask her about uh blood being
5:37:37found in the back of her Volkswagen
5:37:39Tiguan yes I did okay we're gonna play
5:37:42that part portion X and judge just as
5:37:44I'm watching the time is there a time
5:37:45that you want me to shoot for for a
5:37:47break 310 okay I'll just watch the clock
5:37:50on that this next section
5:37:53um picks up from here and goes through
5:37:54two hours 10 minutes and 57 seconds
5:37:57foreign
5:38:07in the car we were sitting there
5:38:09to do it through it there's nothing to
5:38:11do with it there's two months to be no
5:38:13uh-uh no but that no no no no no sir
5:38:16that is absolutely not true that was
5:38:19where we were sitting on the back of the
5:38:21car when we were unloading the stuff we
5:38:24were sitting in the back of the car
5:38:25there is no uh-uh no sense
5:38:28there's plenty in the garage
5:38:30there was nothing in the garage there
5:38:33was plenty of time that everybody worked
5:38:34in the garage had nothing to do with
5:38:36nothing but gannon's not working in the
5:38:38garage he's leaving all over the
5:38:39apartment there was nothing about
5:38:42leading all of the blades in the garage
5:38:43that had to do with anything I'm telling
5:38:46you
5:38:47what you're asking me
5:38:49it was completely totally different
5:38:52and anything has to do you know what
5:38:54this looks like say you're telling me
5:38:55the truth again please don't think
5:38:57please don't care what I think
5:39:00that you're telling me the truth right
5:39:02now that Saturday had nothing to do with
5:39:05him disappearing and being gone for over
5:39:07a month
5:39:09do you know what that looks like
5:39:11it looks like I am in the next situation
5:39:15that I need help getting them but but
5:39:17you're not willing to tell me how to
5:39:19help you
5:39:21so now you're saying that Gannon had a
5:39:23really bad head wound on Saturday no no
5:39:26I didn't say that that's not what I said
5:39:27the head thing was Saturday
5:39:31I'm saying what you're talking about
5:39:34completely different in
5:39:37than what you're saying yeah yeah but
5:39:39this doesn't look any better for you
5:39:41because now you haven't told Al that he
5:39:43has a headwind you haven't I wasn't
5:39:46Hospital
5:39:48but
5:40:00so in that particular portion
5:40:03um where you're asking about the
5:40:05Blood on the Tiguan
5:40:08um were you had you been made aware of
5:40:10uh when she showed up to the El Paso
5:40:12County Sheriff's Office for an interview
5:40:14in the condition of her car yes what
5:40:17information did you know about that but
5:40:18the car had been washed
5:40:25did you uh ask her if someone else
5:40:27injured Ganon during this interview okay
5:40:30we're gonna jump to that portion it
5:40:33picks up here and goes through two hours
5:40:34and 20 minutes and zero six seconds
5:40:37someone else to injure him on Saturday
5:40:41that's an easy question you don't even
5:40:43have to tell me a name did someone else
5:40:45send your hands sorry
5:40:52but that didn't happen
5:40:59I'll better tell you about anything
5:41:04I think that's where
5:41:06this is going to be whatever because
5:41:08you're going to take you're not you're
5:41:10not going to take my my version in my
5:41:12time what's your T-shirt let me start if
5:41:15you help us I will take whatever version
5:41:17you tell them and I will actually treat
5:41:20them
5:41:21that's all I do is I don't chase
5:41:24I am wrong most of the time you have a
5:41:27way to pull up apps do you have a way to
5:41:29pull up the stuff on apps do you have
5:41:31that we can do that while you're here
5:41:33yes okay well I know I'm saying you said
5:41:36you have this yes you have ways to pull
5:41:38up apps
5:41:39what a
5:41:44how do you have ways of both apps we
5:41:47have technically I'm not a tech person
5:41:49but we have plenty of tech people that
5:41:51are super smart to do it
5:41:54if you tell me what to do we can do that
5:41:57while we're talking take a break you
5:41:58know the restroom whatever else we can
5:42:00solve this thing right now
5:42:04why come I just can't front teeth
5:42:06without a worship then we can talk
5:42:08regularly yeah but come on there's
5:42:10people here
5:42:11yeah
5:42:12you tell me what you want to do and I
5:42:14will I want to talk to you to tell you
5:42:17about leading up to anything I want to
5:42:21talk to you because I want you to find
5:42:23in and I believe it on my heart you will
5:42:25help me not lie too much not try to say
5:42:29oh you're telling the story and throwing
5:42:31me somewhere
5:42:36I understand what you're saying about
5:42:38Federal versus local whatever okay so
5:42:42the first set the first thing I'm going
5:42:44to want to talk to you is that I don't
5:42:47want anything said before so to get me
5:42:49if I provide you with a hundred percent
5:42:52the truth to help you
5:42:55that'll work this is the first time
5:42:57we're talking and it's for a reason you
5:42:58haven't talked to the feds yet right so
5:43:01if I can want to be sitting here with
5:43:04all these
5:43:06pieces I want you to listen at exactly
5:43:10what happened and go from there
5:43:14okay okay
5:43:16and that's not I know you're trained to
5:43:18do this and interrogate people you know
5:43:21that I want nothing more
5:43:23nothing more
5:43:25than forgetting to be okay that's all I
5:43:27want I promise you
5:43:29that's all I want
5:43:34and I will take
5:43:37whatever resources whatever help you
5:43:39want me to go do even if it means take
5:43:42myself in the middle somewhere where
5:43:44someone wants me to go to get him
5:43:46make sure he's okay I would do it
5:43:50I love Dannon you know family
5:43:53and I will be grounded everybody walks
5:43:56on Albert early Lena Gannon
5:43:59that is my family
5:44:02so in the end you might think you got
5:44:05whatever by this and forensics and
5:44:08whatever I'm not arguing any of that
5:44:11very smart to know that you're a smart
5:44:13man and not stupid
5:44:15but I need the help the resources to not
5:44:20be attacked anymore
5:44:23to know
5:44:25something on stupid apps it was just
5:44:27doing this thing
5:44:30so you brought someone in I I'm not I
5:44:33don't know
5:44:34I get it
5:44:38oh
5:44:41I'm representing law enforcement from
5:44:44Colorado
5:44:45okay and if you tell me something even
5:44:48though you know we started a recording
5:44:51now or whatever and if you say we won't
5:44:52talk unless we turn off the recording
5:44:55that can happen but I'm going to pull in
5:44:58all those resources no I want you to
5:45:00pull in resources I'm not denying you to
5:45:02Staple in the resources I'm looking at
5:45:04you from mother to a father
5:45:07I have been scared because I don't know
5:45:10what's going to happen not with because
5:45:12I get comfortable I wouldn't have told
5:45:15you that there was people raising people
5:45:17intervention or all these things
5:45:20if there wouldn't have been
5:45:22I wouldn't have done that
5:45:24I wouldn't have done that
5:45:25could have easily just been like hey
5:45:29if there is truly what you guys have
5:45:32thought about I don't think you've
5:45:33intentionally done it there was an
5:45:34accident
5:45:35Common Sense well enough to know to pick
5:45:38the phone say an application not stupid
5:45:41okay might be
5:45:44freaking out because I don't know how to
5:45:46get this help but I'm not doing business
5:45:48okay and that's looking dead and I had
5:45:51to tell you I did not hurt Gannon at all
5:45:54okay
5:45:56when so if you're willing to give me the
5:46:01opportunity to talk to you I don't want
5:46:02to be like watched by people I don't
5:46:04want to be oh whatever this is a
5:46:06separate recorder this is mine right and
5:46:09so does the murder me challenge yeah
5:46:11they do
5:46:15but I need the help you get to help
5:46:19I'm always focusing on this one okay
5:46:22that's what I want I don't want to look
5:46:24at like you look at me like I'm just
5:46:26person who doesn't want
5:46:29to that's not it I just I just when it
5:46:32when it came at me as an attack okay
5:46:34because that's what originally happened
5:46:37okay and I get it damn good job guess
5:46:40what they're probably parents too right
5:46:44I get that part
5:46:47you can ask me about any of these
5:46:49whatever
5:46:51I'm sure it was something I saw
5:46:53somewhere and I don't never let me think
5:46:55about some stepchild I've looked up how
5:46:57I haven't got help
5:46:58and how I wanted help and how I wanted
5:47:00to be the person that they always
5:47:03whatever why I didn't even want him to
5:47:05go home
5:47:06I didn't even want him to have to go to
5:47:08their mother at all
5:47:10at all because I had to see the pain and
5:47:12acne algorithm
5:47:14worrying
5:47:16so
5:47:17you're going to take my character based
5:47:19upon no whatever that's this part listen
5:47:22when when a kid goes missing
5:47:25we don't only look at the person we look
5:47:28at the entire neighborhood we go through
5:47:30people well this we go everybody's lives
5:47:32has turned upside down and I'll tell you
5:47:34right now since if any of this has since
5:47:37then of course I've looked at what
5:47:39people said and people said something
5:47:40about the FBI I Googled FBI you
5:47:45there we can protect you
5:47:48okay so then I talked to you and I don't
5:47:51talk to Myrtle Beach Police Department
5:47:53and all these other people I talked to
5:47:55you and I explain to you
5:47:58okay because
5:48:00you're already saying you are charging
5:48:02me with something that's already been
5:48:04that's what I'm saying you're already
5:48:05saying that okay
5:48:07so
5:48:09how do I know that when I get you when I
5:48:12give you this here information but
5:48:13that's that's what this recording does
5:48:15it protects you because I've already
5:48:16told you we will do this
5:48:19we used to not report things but we do
5:48:22know
5:48:23and they're the only people sitting in
5:48:25there is the district attorney and some
5:48:27of the El Paso people Myrtle Beach has
5:48:29nothing to do with this they helped us
5:48:31find him right so they have to be
5:48:33involved in this yeah
5:48:35Myrtle Beach is not internet
5:48:40okay well if someone else took Gannon
5:48:44I want to be able to have emotional raw
5:48:47conversation
5:48:49let's do it now I can't
5:48:51I mean we can't go anywhere where do you
5:48:54want to go I I because I know people are
5:48:55saying nobody's sitting there okay
5:48:57someone's watching from there they are
5:48:59in the other room Mr district attorney
5:49:00do you want me to tell them they can't
5:49:02watch no I want to talk to someone in a
5:49:04raw real conversation that you can see
5:49:08truly in my heart
5:49:11the situation that's what I want that's
5:49:14what they say no it's not that
5:49:17but how can I who is it the district's
5:49:19attorney from Colorado yes yeah see
5:49:22I can ask them to leave the room we
5:49:24thought about leaving
5:49:25it's about I'm asking for
5:49:28instead of going through all you know
5:49:30this whatever sitting here wasting our
5:49:33time or whatever and asking
5:49:36because I'm taking your word that you're
5:49:39going to help me and you're going to
5:49:41provide the resources from wherever you
5:49:43said you have been
5:49:44before I do them
5:49:47so
5:49:49in this portion of the uh
5:49:52interview starts out with you asking her
5:49:54about did somebody else injure again and
5:49:56and then she went on the discussion
5:49:59about apps do you remember that portion
5:50:01yes and you asked her to give the name
5:50:04of the app
5:50:05and then it led to that long tangent was
5:50:07that another distraction attempt away
5:50:09from potentially things that may help
5:50:11misdirection yes
5:50:21did you ask her about trips uh that she
5:50:23may have made to Palmer Lake area so
5:50:25Northern El Paso County I did
5:50:28we're going to watch that next and this
5:50:29is short it's from two hours 20 minutes
5:50:32and 10 seconds through two hours 21
5:50:34minutes and 20 seconds
5:50:38let me ask you some questions okay
5:50:40because this is our investigation right
5:50:43you're taking all these trips up to
5:50:45Corner Lake
5:50:47multiple trips different cars renting a
5:50:50car okay you know it involved in this
5:50:53first off I didn't ever get the drive to
5:50:55little car anywhere because immediately
5:50:57once we let me let me go and correct on
5:50:59this now once we got the rental car or
5:51:02whatever the National Guard was there
5:51:05everybody was in the house we went and
5:51:08Albert's took the whole entire day going
5:51:10to come and go and all these places so I
5:51:13never drove the Rental Car anywhere and
5:51:15it's already been corrected from budget
5:51:18about the rental car situation I had to
5:51:20get that corrected yesterday I never
5:51:22even drove it anywhere because I didn't
5:51:24get to so what whatever GPS you get from
5:51:27the rental car it never was driven by me
5:51:29anywhere but literally up the street
5:51:31back I didn't hardly drive it anywhere
5:51:33so there's no rental car driven to any
5:51:35kind of places at all
5:51:38the only time I went anywhere in the car
5:51:41might have been maybe 40 50 miles I
5:51:43don't know no more than a hundred miles
5:51:45counting there and back and that was
5:51:46just driving it through the day because
5:51:47I didn't have I went back to get my car
5:51:50but
5:51:53what information did you have about
5:51:55rental cars when you were asking that
5:51:56question
5:51:59uh we had that on the day I'll return
5:52:02back in town which I believe was Tuesday
5:52:05uh the Tiguan had been parked at the
5:52:08airport and Leticia had rented a car for
5:52:11that day leading into the next day but
5:52:15then she had actually came came back and
5:52:16picked up the Tiguan Tuesday night
5:52:19I don't remember or not if I had the
5:52:22mileage she is correct here and she
5:52:24drove it between 50 and 100 miles I
5:52:26think it was about 70 miles it came back
5:52:28that the rental car was driven and
5:52:32like she said correctly you could see
5:52:34the level of detail here believe she's
5:52:36being honest and it probably was not
5:52:39driven up to Palmer Lake
5:52:41so yeah it was a factually correct what
5:52:44she was saying were you aware of her
5:52:47having access to any other rental cars
5:52:48during the early days of this
5:52:49investigation
5:52:51yes like the Nissan Altima
5:52:54yes I believe her Tiguan was seized and
5:52:57then after that she rented the Nissan a
5:53:00relative rent to the Nissan we've got
5:53:03that in evidence that came from a
5:53:04different witness but also uh did you
5:53:07later learn that she also had access to
5:53:10um two different types of rental vans
5:53:12yes I learned that later okay
5:53:16did you have a discussion about uh
5:53:19PetSmart slash Petco that leads into a
5:53:23discussion about
5:53:24um Blood on the walls and on her shoes
5:53:26and that kind of thing yes we're going
5:53:29to jump to
5:53:30two hours 24 minutes and 51 seconds and
5:53:33play through two hours and 28 minutes
5:53:35and five seconds
5:53:50because everything that I've looked at
5:53:52in this case
5:53:54when you see the blood spatter on the
5:53:56wall you see a big pool in the corner
5:53:58you see your shoes that we collected
5:54:00with ganon's blood on the bottom of them
5:54:03okay
5:54:05and then you point to Eduardo who
5:54:09doesn't exist or maybe he did exist and
5:54:11we don't have a last name then you point
5:54:13to Quincy Brown and then you say Uncle
5:54:15Matt these names and stuff and it's like
5:54:19I've seen it before
5:54:21and that that was Harold
5:54:24I'm not saying you are but this is my
5:54:27experience right I got you I'm not
5:54:29saying you are but it didn't go well for
5:54:31him because
5:54:32his attorney got up he's one of the best
5:54:34attorneys in Colorado he cost six
5:54:36hundred thousand dollars
5:54:41there's dead wife's money
5:54:44and um
5:54:46I got up and said Harold is not a
5:54:49murderer but he is a liar
5:54:52and
5:54:53that's what I was worried about when I
5:54:55first got the face because they asked me
5:54:56to come in and work that case because I
5:54:58worked other pages and Harold's
5:55:01disciplinary girls please don't say this
5:55:03issue I'm just saying this is my
5:55:04experience because Harold told all these
5:55:06different stories
5:55:08when you start out with your defense
5:55:10attorney saying my client is a liar he's
5:55:12just making a threat that's to the
5:55:15victim's family on how Tony died that's
5:55:17to his friends at church and all them
5:55:20got up and testified these are the
5:55:21different ways Tony died
5:55:25but he might be today
5:55:27you don't know that if someone is
5:55:28willing if this whether it's related or
5:55:31not the head thing if someone's willing
5:55:33to hold a kid for 30 days how are they
5:55:36not willing to kill him can I ask you
5:55:37something or can I say something yes
5:55:40even if
5:55:42the scenario would have been me just I'm
5:55:45going to go talk to the life of the lady
5:55:47here and telling them
5:55:50hey this is what happens this is who did
5:55:54it I know that he I was hurt by someone
5:55:58you know what the next question you're
5:56:00going to say to me who was this person
5:56:02and all I'd say to you was all well can
5:56:05you help me figure it out from this app
5:56:06or can you help me figure out something
5:56:08you know what you would say to me oh
5:56:10yeah sure right
5:56:13that's exactly what she was saying to me
5:56:16so
5:56:17finding the unless I can take you
5:56:21directly to where again it is safe and
5:56:24sound
5:56:25that is the only way that you're going
5:56:27to be like oh
5:56:31so this person is telling you that he's
5:56:33safe so that's the only thing
5:56:38I've even asked y'all or I say y'all
5:56:41again I mean you're
5:56:43I'll get it okay can you please tell
5:56:46Martin I go to work please you're not
5:56:50understanding like I beg that I have
5:56:52begged that completely
5:56:56day in and day out
5:56:59thank you
5:57:01magnitude
5:57:07so in this discussion where you're
5:57:09trying to find information about how
5:57:12could there be blood in these places and
5:57:13on walls in Eduardo and Quincy and all
5:57:16that kind of thing
5:57:18um
5:57:20is this consistent approach from her in
5:57:22that she then doesn't want to give you
5:57:24any answers yes
5:57:27when you when either in the in the
5:57:30recorded consensual phone calls with Mr
5:57:32stout or this interview
5:57:34um did she ever give you any explanation
5:57:36like you know what I just woke up and
5:57:39Gannon was hurt I don't know what
5:57:40happened
5:57:41no she ever
5:57:43um say that she blacked out and Ganon
5:57:45was just gone and didn't know what
5:57:46happened
5:57:48she said once what that her head was hit
5:57:50and she was unconscious during part of
5:57:53this period but not that she didn't know
5:57:54what happened okay
5:57:57um did she ever say she woke up in some
5:57:58other place and didn't know what
5:58:00happened no
5:58:05um
5:58:05some point there's been a couple of
5:58:07references now where she's wanting to go
5:58:09off camera and she does it here again as
5:58:11well some point does one of the uh DA's
5:58:15that was with you out in South Carolina
5:58:16actually come into the room and have a
5:58:18discussion with her about going off
5:58:20camera yes no was that Martha McKinney
5:58:22yes of course who was the other D.A that
5:58:24was with you out in South Carolina do
5:58:26you remember I don't was it the young
5:58:28lady sitting here with us Angelina
5:58:29Graziano hi
5:58:32she look familiar yes she does
5:58:35I'm going to jump to that section so
5:58:37jumping to two hours 34 minutes and 20
5:58:40seconds through two hours 44 minutes and
5:58:4254 seconds
5:58:52and before I jump as I'm typing in the
5:58:54that time stamp to get to that exact
5:58:57point
5:58:58is it shortly after this where you
5:59:01actually leave the room for a little
5:59:02while and have a discussion about can we
5:59:05do this off-camera thing
5:59:06yes and when you did that was that
5:59:09leaving her in the room the defendant in
5:59:11that same room by herself for some
5:59:13period of time correct uh did she do
5:59:15anything unusual during inside the room
5:59:17during that time I recall starts talking
5:59:19in Spanish or anything like that no okay
5:59:22so we're at 2 34 20 and I'm going to
5:59:24play it through 244.54
5:59:28that's about like 20 minutes yeah it is
5:59:30Josh yeah
5:59:32Mr gruesome you can step down thank you
5:59:34I think going forward how many more of
5:59:36these do you have to play well the whole
5:59:39thing like I've told you before judges
5:59:41um
5:59:42well let me rephrase my let me give you
5:59:45some guidance I think if he's if it's
5:59:46going to be longer in about 10 minutes
5:59:48Mr gruesome can step down oh I see what
5:59:50you're saying yeah
5:59:52um I can just make notes of when they're
5:59:54going to be longer like that and then
5:59:55this should get us to about 310 judge so
5:59:58okay well maybe we can take the break
6:00:00right after this one
6:00:03fun
6:00:07I wrote The District's attorney about
6:00:09this thank you I left behind there this
6:00:12place is under construction there's no
6:00:14one back I can knock you back there if
6:00:16you want to welcome oh no I believe
6:00:17something about all these people
6:00:19watching yeah and Martha's been watching
6:00:22yeah I have yeah jump everyone
6:00:26protection so I
6:00:29I don't have any trust in anyone
6:00:31obviously I know I've told him that I've
6:00:33been seeing Faber because
6:00:36but how do I know that
6:00:39I'm going to get held up like because I
6:00:43didn't hurt you
6:00:45at all but I need the help to figure out
6:00:51how
6:00:53um let me read you what she wrote okay
6:01:05and so we do have your phone and we have
6:01:08gone through like these are keystrokes
6:01:10right
6:01:14did you have a different phone beside
6:01:16the one that was in your van
6:01:18did you have another phone like a second
6:01:21phone yeah
6:01:23no no no it's the same song
6:01:25there's another thing phone do you guys
6:01:27have the phone
6:01:29okay yeah but at this at this time
6:01:40I only had this one
6:01:44so
6:01:46and let me explain more than my
6:01:48understanding what the teachers asking
6:01:49is how does she know since I've said if
6:01:53there's a bad guy or guys out there that
6:01:55did this to Gannon that she can tell us
6:01:58where these guys are
6:01:59and she's concerned for not only her
6:02:02safety but the safety of her family and
6:02:06how could she would I trade my life
6:02:08again is and I said yes but I said also
6:02:12other people like how do I know that
6:02:14everyone out
6:02:16is not exactly
6:02:20and how do I know that you guys aren't
6:02:22just trying to be like whatever if I
6:02:24walk you through anything or can help
6:02:26you with anything I don't want to be
6:02:28just thrown somewhere like being like
6:02:30okay well you didn't tell me this and I
6:02:33want to be able to help you and work
6:02:35together because I'm sure you have kids
6:02:36your grandkids or whatever I do I don't
6:02:39want to sound like I'm
6:02:40wholehearted and I'm just tired of being
6:02:43like the person chased instead of being
6:02:45able to have someone actually have
6:02:46compassion to help me
6:02:49well I I was a little bit confused when
6:02:52I was watching it because John talked
6:02:54about how they're the FBI and they're
6:02:57the premier law enforcement agency that
6:02:59could protect you could protect your
6:03:01entire family
6:03:04um and they again is alive and okay
6:03:08I can't make you any promises right
6:03:12um because obviously
6:03:14there's a lot of information that you
6:03:16have that we don't okay so there aren't
6:03:18any promises I can't come in here and
6:03:20and promise you anything regarding the
6:03:224K or
6:03:24um the arrest warrant or your
6:03:26involvement
6:03:28but I can tell you what the number one
6:03:30priority is right and it's to find you
6:03:32right and so if you were talking to some
6:03:36small law enforcement agency and they
6:03:39said sure we'll protest you I mean I can
6:03:41see how you would be suspicious of that
6:03:44why didn't you ever leave agency that's
6:03:46why I was asking yeah I mean they're the
6:03:48most elite agency they're in okay and so
6:03:51if there was a time for for you to feel
6:03:55like that you could protect
6:04:01there's a backup
6:04:04so um if you want the recording turned
6:04:07off you need to tell us really
6:04:09explicitly that that's your choice
6:04:11because the reporting
6:04:13um have been put into law so that
6:04:15there's not a debate where he says you
6:04:17said one thing and you said I didn't
6:04:19right so it's to protect the person
6:04:21being interviewed right but if it's
6:04:23something that you it's not that I'm I'm
6:04:25trying to I just don't it's just I
6:04:27wanted to have like a conversation with
6:04:28him just him and try to explain to him
6:04:32in complete details about everything
6:04:34because I do want the I want the help to
6:04:38the next level to find out what he is I
6:04:40really do you guys have looked you've
6:04:43went to GPS's and all the but you
6:04:46haven't found the end because you come
6:04:48after me
6:04:49and I understand you're going to say
6:04:51well this is what we have to go on
6:04:55and I look at it the first time I ever
6:04:56get to sit down with people that
6:04:58actually say okay this is what happened
6:05:01this is what I know please help me
6:05:04because then I feel like if I don't
6:05:06because the I easily would be like hey
6:05:08just give me an attorney and call it a
6:05:10date I really want so do you think I
6:05:12want to waste time if I got resources
6:05:15when that's all I've asked for I don't
6:05:18want to waste time
6:05:19and if there's a chance they can be seen
6:05:21everybody wants that information
6:05:25but the only people with the same
6:05:30um I don't want you to think that this
6:05:31is being broadcast to the whole world
6:05:33thanks so there's another da with me
6:05:35there's no half of that impression right
6:05:38um
6:05:41and they're the ones what the reason
6:05:43that we do that also is I might miss
6:05:47something and I probably do and so then
6:05:48I can go talk to him and say what am I
6:05:51listening and right and then also it
6:05:53protects you because if I make a promise
6:05:55that I can't do that wrong with the FBI
6:05:57then Martha could stay here and then she
6:05:59would knock on the door but as soon as I
6:06:00give you information what's going to
6:06:02happen is someone's going to say well
6:06:04you were involved with this person you
6:06:06were cheating with this person you were
6:06:09doing this I'm just giving you scenarios
6:06:11that's a lot better situation than
6:06:13yourself but what if I wasn't that's my
6:06:15thing and that that's where the burden
6:06:17of proof I can't I can't depend my life
6:06:20on the burden of proof to be involved
6:06:22with just someone thinking that I'm just
6:06:24a bad person I did not hurt gaming okay
6:06:29there are any promises I can make you
6:06:35um
6:06:36I can tell you that we're looking for
6:06:38the truth
6:06:39and it seemed to me from listening to it
6:06:42that you had information
6:06:44but I can't make you any promises but
6:06:47what I'm saying is if you're saying to
6:06:49me I have information
6:06:51you're going to come and say well you
6:06:53should have given this information when
6:06:55I didn't know something about the tax
6:06:55that's what I'm saying
6:06:57you can't armchair porter back yourself
6:07:00though
6:07:01you know what I'm saying
6:07:03you you can't look into the future and
6:07:05say well we're going to say this because
6:07:07you said that
6:07:08if what Mark and I are saying are true
6:07:10and that our only focus of gaming we
6:07:14don't care who leads us there we just
6:07:16need ganity then you are protecting
6:07:18yourself by telling themselves if you
6:07:20never give us this information then you
6:07:22don't protect yourself and then we have
6:07:24one person to prosecute
6:07:26again
6:07:30a new version
6:07:32not with when people came forward with
6:07:34this information
6:07:36how do I know that
6:07:37because that's my that's my biggest
6:07:40thing I know you're saying that but like
6:07:42whatever I can do to help I can help you
6:07:45but I'm saying how do I know that if
6:07:47what's the say is that whatever I tell
6:07:51you a specific person okay let's just
6:07:54say that okay then my my thing is what
6:07:58you your thing is going to be like well
6:08:00you will have this information for me
6:08:02and I'm having to utilize my resources
6:08:05okay and do all those things not
6:08:07understanding that maybe sometimes there
6:08:10are people who are afraid
6:08:13of any other thing is going on
6:08:16uh every day in my work
6:08:18there are people who report things later
6:08:22than some people think they should every
6:08:24day
6:08:26um and we try to focus on the violent
6:08:28crime we certainly try to focus on the
6:08:30kids
6:08:32um I know that you want assurances and
6:08:35you want me to be able to say you know
6:08:38I will or won't do this
6:08:41um and I can't make you promises that
6:08:43I'm in the dark
6:08:44right it would be foolish for me to make
6:08:46your promises but I have people who
6:08:49might report saxophone all the time we
6:08:53have people who come forward years later
6:08:55interest is in the truth about the crime
6:09:01this is really on conversation I have
6:09:05um and I know that you wanted to have a
6:09:07great conversation with them where you
6:09:08could really come in so unless you need
6:09:10me I'm going to step out
6:09:12but you're still going back in the room
6:09:14yeah yeah we'll turn around
6:09:20um how do I know that
6:09:22I want to be able to like really talk
6:09:26know that I can sincere see in your
6:09:28heart you're going to help me
6:09:30I can bring you back there and you can
6:09:32see us turn it up but the truth is I
6:09:34could just turn it back on again I know
6:09:36I mean there's a point where no one can
6:09:37verify everything you want of course
6:09:40that's her why she'd have to tell the
6:09:42truth just like not to you when you
6:09:44don't want her to listen to you kind of
6:09:46have to look at logic here okay I don't
6:09:48think marker would throw away no I don't
6:09:49and I don't want you to know I want you
6:09:51to have all the information that's it so
6:09:54are you okay with the reporting
6:09:55continuing we just won't be monitoring
6:09:59he said I could just talk to him okay
6:10:03um so we're just going to turn off the
6:10:04reporting and that's your choice okay
6:10:06what you want okay yes
6:10:08um and so speed controls the turning it
6:10:09off from here
6:10:11okay
6:10:13so it's just gonna get turned off okay
6:10:16and then once we're done then I'll come
6:10:18back out and we'll turn it back on and
6:10:20it'll it'll be a conversation between
6:10:22the two of you and it'll be like the way
6:10:25um law enforcement all right anything
6:10:26else for me yeah I'm gonna go get him
6:10:28turn it on
6:10:34thank you
6:10:38so that's that portion judge do you want
6:10:40to take the break now or go a little bit
6:10:42more let's go a little bit longer okay
6:10:47let's go a little bit longer
6:10:57some point did you have a discussion
6:10:59with the defendant during this interview
6:11:00where you're talking about Ransom
6:11:03yes why was that part of the discussion
6:11:07she had brought that up I think it was
6:11:09on February 15th that Quincy Brown was
6:11:12demanding a ransom and also since we
6:11:15were talking about a group possibly
6:11:17having Gannon there was I couldn't see
6:11:20another reason why someone would have
6:11:22him he would still be alive without them
6:11:24asking for something in demand
6:11:26but but why bring it up in that in that
6:11:29particular interview
6:11:30are why confront her with that
6:11:34just to change tactics a little bit and
6:11:36see if she will move somewhere else
6:11:38really okay
6:11:40um in that portion of the discussion
6:11:43were you
6:11:44um also talking to her about uh in
6:11:47Ransom cases kids don't actually turn
6:11:49out to be okay
6:11:51yeah and I hadn't maybe I'd worked one
6:11:54Ransom case if that uh we just we don't
6:11:57see that very often normally our rule is
6:11:59that the the 24-hour rule the 48 hour
6:12:01rule the further the further away you
6:12:03get from an adduction uh the less likely
6:12:06the child is going to survive and so now
6:12:09we were at over a month
6:12:12does that same hold true
6:12:14um for a missing kid so the longer you
6:12:16get away from the point that a kid goes
6:12:17missing uh the chances of survival go
6:12:20down as well correct
6:12:23did the defendant bring up a
6:12:25who she describes as an FBI agent named
6:12:28Barbara yes
6:12:30um what was your take on that portion of
6:12:32the discussion
6:12:33I did not know a Barbara who was
6:12:35involved and I asked the Colorado
6:12:36Springs office if there was a barber
6:12:38working in the case and they said no as
6:12:40well okay
6:12:47the next section judges I want to get
6:12:49into is about a 10 minute video do you
6:12:51want me to go into that play it and then
6:12:52let's do that okay
6:12:55uh so
6:12:57preceding that uh
6:12:59she's already sort of challenged you on
6:13:02because you asked the question a
6:13:04particular way that shows that she
6:13:06couldn't trust you as it relates to
6:13:07Quincy being in Mexico do you remember
6:13:09that part yes oh does she bring that up
6:13:11again about that's why I have a problem
6:13:13with trust yes all right and so I'm
6:13:15going to jump to two hours and 49
6:13:17minutes and one second
6:13:29so this is a 10-minute section judge and
6:13:31then if we're going to go directly to
6:13:32break maybe he can come down that's fine
6:13:34you can step down thank you sir
6:13:42and then it happened February this I
6:13:45think
6:13:47so what happened was I and I all the
6:13:49messages when I log back in for my icon
6:13:53I got all the messages
6:13:55just sitting there and so I took that
6:13:58message and I ordered it
6:14:03and I said hey I said can you get
6:14:05someone to like look into this that it
6:14:08could be just people you know sending
6:14:10random messages or it could be creeper
6:14:13you know like people whatever being
6:14:14stupid or it could be just in general
6:14:17you know
6:14:20the actual person and so no one ever say
6:14:24anything to me about it then I get the
6:14:25Snapchat
6:14:32but he said there's an 11 year old kid
6:14:34again we have to go back there
6:14:3711 year old kid injuries in the house
6:14:40now we know that
6:14:42Aiken
6:14:44and
6:14:45you don't come to law enforcement please
6:14:49I mean how did you get in and accept
6:14:52through your friend you had Amber from
6:14:55the FBI right but she said that she
6:14:57worked with the FBI and she was going to
6:14:59send information she said that she
6:15:00worked with Amber I assure you if you
6:15:03call a lady you can get the number from
6:15:05her to find out what what who the
6:15:08department
6:15:09and she was actually emailing her today
6:15:11but if you told stand back then and you
6:15:15trusted them with that information
6:15:18why are you not today
6:15:21no one has helped I tried since February
6:15:245th but this
6:15:26today's March
6:15:28that's why you see I had such a problem
6:15:30with Trump because it was there when you
6:15:33were talking to Amber though that was
6:15:35your chance and you're Amber yeah
6:15:38and then was that what happened when I
6:15:40was talking to Amber I got a message
6:15:42back from the attorney he said not to
6:15:44talk to you guys because you got AIDS
6:15:46weren't lead agency or something like
6:15:48that and then B not to say anything else
6:15:50unless he was present that was when I
6:15:53was trying to talk to Amber or why
6:15:55wasn't that with Barbara then because I
6:15:57gave it to my friend Amy who
6:16:00was with Barbara like trying to check on
6:16:02it and I've again this sounds like a lot
6:16:04of your calls to where you're pointing
6:16:07fingers in different directions but
6:16:09never giving specific things right right
6:16:12now I mean this cannon is somewhere and
6:16:16you can get us there and they've he sent
6:16:19proof of life or a picture of Gannon or
6:16:21whatever else it makes no sense for
6:16:23someone for some man to have an 11 year
6:16:26old child that wasn't that it was
6:16:28because we thought it was someone
6:16:30playing games and if someone was playing
6:16:33games we were trying to say that that
6:16:34person would have been like
6:16:37like obstructing or whatever that was
6:16:39the whole point not some somebody had
6:16:41him and they were like here come get it
6:16:43my point was it was that we thought it
6:16:45was someone hey you're someone playing
6:16:47games could you find out who's the
6:16:49person yeah but do you see for that
6:16:50stone in all your talks without those
6:16:53are distractions those take up time yeah
6:16:55and ganon's over here
6:16:57yeah and you were misleading law
6:17:00enforcement no I didn't just leave them
6:17:02well you're misleading anybody who would
6:17:04report to us no I didn't mislead
6:17:07anything
6:17:08with all these other stories that was to
6:17:11Albert it wasn't misleading but you knew
6:17:13we were in the room and I that's I
6:17:16wouldn't have said stuff like that if I
6:17:18was trying to mislead I would just be in
6:17:20whatever the album because he was making
6:17:21me upset that's all the dad of a kid
6:17:24who's yeah is not finding his son
6:17:26because I'm also the stepmother who
6:17:30helped him get the kids and he wouldn't
6:17:32have gotten them without me so yes
6:17:37no I already had apologized to him and
6:17:40said that was awful except they were
6:17:42saying because anger I've already done
6:17:44that before we kick this thing in motion
6:17:47about all this protection and whatever
6:17:52why haven't you said one thing though
6:17:54today how in the world would he suffer a
6:17:57head wound on Saturday that recorded I
6:17:59didn't say with the head rude anything
6:18:01you're talking about when I said
6:18:03something to Albert I said the head
6:18:05thing you're talking about
6:18:09you already trying
6:18:12the head thing talking to Albert
6:18:14nevermind
6:18:16I'll just I'll just wait until you were
6:18:18ready to talk to me with from beginning
6:18:20to the end because I already said that
6:18:24that is completely irrelevant to
6:18:25anything of what you're talking about
6:18:27completely
6:18:29I told Albert something else
6:18:32that was your story to be whatever to
6:18:34him and it was wrong and I already had
6:18:37apologize so the things that you told
6:18:39Albert were that he was peeling these
6:18:41ferns
6:18:42was not happening I'm not going to
6:18:44answer any more questions because you're
6:18:47asking me about things telling Albert
6:18:49out of being upset
6:18:50there was nothing happening that I was
6:18:52telling Albert nothing
6:18:54I was literally just saying that to
6:18:56Albert because I'm upset for him not
6:18:59standing by me and was figuring out this
6:19:02had nothing to do with me wanting to
6:19:04purposefully do whatever or tell you
6:19:06guys anything
6:19:07this is not what it was it was me being
6:19:10upset let me go back to
6:19:14a kid missing is about as bad as it gets
6:19:17oh yeah I had a bank robbery
6:19:2015 years ago of where female went in the
6:19:23bank
6:19:24we were off the bank
6:19:26he got the money she came back to the
6:19:28car and she drove away
6:19:32she responds to keep it you know there
6:19:34were guys in the car with guns
6:19:37okay but what did she could have gone
6:19:39into the bank and locked those doors
6:19:41those guys are making me do this right
6:19:45yours now we have 30 Sunday we skipped
6:19:48in and missing and you haven't talked to
6:19:50Warren law enforcement officer if they I
6:19:54know where he is in the city I never I
6:19:56never did not try to talk to you guys I
6:19:59never did not no one ever when I felt
6:20:02like I was beginning like a completely
6:20:04like Bam Bam Bam Bam partying by passing
6:20:07that no one ever reached out to me from
6:20:10FBI to like have a conversation like you
6:20:13no one no one ever did and you don't
6:20:16feel comfortable talking to El Pas so
6:20:17hard
6:20:19it's not I don't feel comfortable
6:20:21talking to them I dislike from weakness
6:20:25they have taken this approach as if you
6:20:28made it in a comment about them like you
6:20:31know about this
6:20:34that's the approach that they've taken
6:20:36as this person is not alive and that
6:20:40bothers me because I don't want and
6:20:44we're actually the ones we're the ones
6:20:46that told them that and that's
6:20:48statistically true what you should just
6:20:50become one from gannon's age and from
6:20:53the amount of time that he's been
6:20:55missing he is most likely dead
6:20:57but what I'm saying is
6:20:59as a parent is that maybe because you're
6:21:03like
6:21:04used to saying that or something but is
6:21:06that something like as a parent you
6:21:08would want to hear
6:21:09would you rather hear a lie would you
6:21:12rather hear statistically he's probably
6:21:14alive
6:21:15when it's about a
6:21:17I would say it's less than a one percent
6:21:19chance at this point but why him being
6:21:2111. they would have asked for something
6:21:23it's a lie kidnappings don't happen
6:21:25without a demand or without it being a
6:21:29parental deal
6:21:30parental deal or demand so you're saying
6:21:33that nothing else nobody intervenes ever
6:21:36and I've seen one at a time and again
6:21:38I've worked if I'm a crime in Denver for
6:21:4020 years a little over
6:21:42and I saw one kid wander down the street
6:21:44he had autism and this was up in
6:21:47Brighton and a guy took him in the house
6:21:50he had him for a day the guy was
6:21:52mentally disabled as well so he had two
6:21:55things happening at once we had a kid
6:21:57autism we just started wondering and
6:22:00then we had a developmentally delayed
6:22:02adult it was just playing video games
6:22:04with him for 24 hours but we ended up
6:22:07the public said there and I remember
6:22:10knocking on the door he had made little
6:22:11blankets for the kid in there the kid
6:22:13was playing video games and nothing had
6:22:15bad had happened right that's the
6:22:16exception
6:22:17my friend of her kids have been
6:22:19dismembered 10 year olds that's awesome
6:22:21and from the blood in the house that's
6:22:24what I'm thinking happened I'm not
6:22:25saying he just got dismembered in the
6:22:27house
6:22:28but there's enough blood in there that
6:22:30we don't think he survived
6:22:33how could you have like possibly and say
6:22:39that when you clearly began in Walking
6:22:43leaving on Monday
6:22:46see that stuff leaving on Monday at 10
6:22:49yes right
6:22:51correct right
6:22:54walking
6:22:56hey but he comes back walking correct
6:22:59okay walking not walking well we'll be
6:23:02fine
6:23:03so much great like this yeah
6:23:07but he's back at two mcatee
6:23:12okay
6:23:15okay if that's if that's what you say
6:23:18and I'm just then this whole thing is
6:23:21like even pointless
6:23:22anything because if you're saying it
6:23:24knock it too
6:23:26but then you're also saying something
6:23:29about going lakes and here and there and
6:23:31whatever and it's like none of it is
6:23:33even making sense it doesn't even make
6:23:36sense so between the two two Petco trips
6:23:38is when he disappeared then I
6:23:42it doesn't make sense to me Leticia to
6:23:45say so let me tell you
6:23:49I've been working for 14 years with a
6:23:52guy named Scott Kimball he's our
6:23:53informant that went around killing the
6:23:55girls you remember me telling you about
6:23:56him before oh yeah when we first started
6:24:00not our best day because I have dads out
6:24:02there who still wonder if their
6:24:04daughters are alive
6:24:05Scott taught me one thing very well
6:24:08there's only two people that can tell a
6:24:10story when someone either goes missing
6:24:12because one of one of these girls
6:24:13Jennifer
6:24:15equipment like I said we're pretty sure
6:24:17she's dead because it's been 14 years
6:24:19since everybody's female
6:24:21but Scott told me John only two guys
6:24:24only two people can testify of what we
6:24:27happen between me and Jennifer and
6:24:29that's me
6:24:30and that's Jennifer and you're never
6:24:32going to find her
6:24:34he said that to you he did wow
6:24:37so I've got the answer to his dad for
6:24:40the rest of my life and I'll probably be
6:24:42answering to his dad after I retire
6:24:44because Dad has my cell phone dad calls
6:24:47me on her birthday on the day she went
6:24:49missing on Father's day how was he able
6:24:51to say that to you
6:24:53because he's like there's no other way
6:24:55with him so when when I take a guess and
6:24:59that's a guess that he came back home
6:25:00that's because people that looked on the
6:25:03video said he probably did or you know I
6:25:06don't have the information you have and
6:25:08I hear you do that to Alex by saying oh
6:25:11so that's what you think
6:25:13you know because I
6:25:17have three hours oh wait a minute did I
6:25:19stop it a minute too early
6:25:21I think I did my eyes are getting bad we
6:25:23got one more minute all right exactly if
6:25:26I don't be that way then no one's going
6:25:28to help me I don't I deserve Gannon I
6:25:31didn't that's fine but right now you're
6:25:32the only thing but I didn't hurt Danny
6:25:35but how are you going to get past
6:25:38these charges without help
6:25:41how does that work without help without
6:25:44you telling me like
6:25:46again it'd be like someone I told you
6:25:48the story about Jennifer if somebody
6:25:49knew where Jennifer was and they're not
6:25:52telling me or Bob Markham but I didn't
6:25:54say I knew organic was
6:25:59hearing I'm never going to sit here babe
6:26:02look at you and say
6:26:04he's not okay that's not what I'm going
6:26:06to do because I didn't do this
6:26:10to say that like I'm dead looking at you
6:26:12in the eye saying I would never as a
6:26:15parent say that no way did I ever say
6:26:18that
6:26:19because I love you
6:26:22I did not hurt again
6:26:25all right now it's really three hours
6:26:27one minute and 35 seconds all right
6:26:29ladies and gentlemen we will pick our
6:26:31afternoon break until 3 35 if I can have
6:26:35for mother's nude
6:26:40okay we're good
6:26:41um we're going to take our afternoon
6:26:42break
6:26:44um if I can have everyone back in the
6:26:46Jury Room and say 3 35 which we'll be
6:26:48able to start right on time at that
6:26:49point again don't discuss the case among
6:26:51yourself don't discuss the case with
6:26:52anyone else
6:26:54um I'll rise for the jury please
6:27:48mic check
6:27:50we always have to do the robot mic check
6:27:53because when we've got this court stream
6:27:55going
6:27:58it's robot G
6:28:01Onna talk like this
6:28:03okay yeah make the hawk stay awake we
6:28:05got the horror hog back Mr Grizzly found
6:28:07it for us Fury had taken this from the
6:28:10last debrief we had
6:28:12um okay they said 35 right is when
6:28:15they're coming back
6:28:20okay I'm just checking okay Jill says
6:28:23cool
6:28:25a lot there's a lot every time every
6:28:27single time I think I'll start with that
6:28:28was a lot there is a lot to take in with
6:28:31all of this I cannot believe
6:28:34how much
6:28:36she gaslights she will even try to guess
6:28:38like an FBI special agent
6:28:41with years of experience
6:28:44top professional she'll try to guess let
6:28:47him manipulate him try to you know
6:28:49attempt to do all that curse of control
6:28:52that she's so used to can you imagine
6:28:54what it was like
6:28:56being her daughter
6:28:58being her stepkids being her husband oh
6:29:02my word or anyone that knew her wow
6:29:04uh welcome to all the new members
6:29:07rainbow rose neck you sound wonderful
6:29:09okay thank you
6:29:12and welcome to all the new Grizzlies
6:29:14there's a lot of new faces here it's
6:29:15really nice to have you I don't think
6:29:16I'd be able to make it through this
6:29:17trial without all of you it's a it's a
6:29:19very tough one but we're all doing this
6:29:22listening to all this BS because we only
6:29:24here for Ganon we are for Ganon and his
6:29:26family and
6:29:28yeah
6:29:30Leticia we just
6:29:32want to see her
6:29:33just go I wish I wish it wouldn't that
6:29:36just be nice I I think about it
6:29:37sometimes wouldn't just be nice it was
6:29:38like okay guys
6:29:41jury what do you think
6:29:43they all are guilty guilty guilty and
6:29:45like okay just put her away
6:29:48but anyway we're only on week three and
6:29:50they said the trial is expected to last
6:29:52six to eight weeks
6:29:55think about that if it's eight weeks
6:29:57we're not even halfway yet if it's six
6:30:00weeks then we're halfway
6:30:02only okay
6:30:04so let's quickly see what I wrote here
6:30:09sorry about all the noise for the papers
6:30:12yes Grizzly cat because Dr star who's
6:30:14smarter than everybody else
6:30:17I mean I can't believe she asked an FBI
6:30:19agent
6:30:21are you able to pull information from
6:30:22apps you can pull up apps from a phone
6:30:24he's like yeah
6:30:26I mean it's only the FBI but okay okay
6:30:29so
6:30:31they talked about okay so trigger
6:30:33warning
6:30:36they talked about the peeling and the
6:30:37bleeding story that she tells about
6:30:38ganon's arms and then
6:30:40um special agent greasing said this is
6:30:42now very different I'm sorry my name is
6:30:44still saying spiritual I'm not special
6:30:46agent greasing let's clarify just gonna
6:30:48make this someone asked me to make the
6:30:50name smaller earlier so
6:30:52standby my name is Giza k
6:30:55I'm not an agent I wish I was okay
6:30:59so
6:31:01special agent greasing says it's a very
6:31:03different story from what she told to L
6:31:05on the phone
6:31:06and she also talks about opening all the
6:31:09windows after this massive fire she says
6:31:12you know which you can't clarify what it
6:31:13is
6:31:14in January like wow
6:31:18okay wait
6:31:19saying you're no longer connected to the
6:31:21meeting
6:31:22you know what I'm gonna leave the
6:31:23meeting and we'll join again
6:31:25okay
6:31:26I'm going to carry on now a craft craft
6:31:29tea
6:31:30FLA
6:31:32lady I need a nice glass of wine and
6:31:34figured you do as well thank you so much
6:31:36I don't drink but I would love to have
6:31:39some Rose tonic or a juice or something
6:31:42if you guys remember I drank GNT I don't
6:31:43drink anymore just so you know thank you
6:31:45so much though I really appreciate the
6:31:46super sticker and I will get a
6:31:48refreshing beverage at some point right
6:31:52now I'm just like so focused on this on
6:31:54my word
6:31:55um right I don't want to get up now I
6:31:57don't want to take breaks okay so just
6:32:00I'm monitoring the time they say they'll
6:32:02be back at 35.
6:32:04right so already told them prior
6:32:07that she wasn't coming on a Monday did
6:32:09you hear that did you hear that she's
6:32:10telling the FBI special agent and she
6:32:12lied as well to the FBI agent on the
6:32:14phone saying she told the school she
6:32:17wasn't coming to work on Monday already
6:32:19on Friday that is such a lie there was a
6:32:21text message he sent at 4 37 in the
6:32:24morning on Monday January 27th to the
6:32:26principal saying or the assistant
6:32:28principal saying I'm not coming to work
6:32:30today my stepfather was hit by a car and
6:32:33killed
6:32:35and then when the principal was like oh
6:32:38I'm so sorry to hear that
6:32:39um that you know just talking about it
6:32:41she was like I can't even believe that
6:32:43that we're having this conversation and
6:32:46she started guilt-tripping the principal
6:32:48about even asking her about the
6:32:50situation but she was just like okay I'm
6:32:52so sorry what happened like when do you
6:32:54expect to come back you know that type
6:32:55of thing
6:32:56um yes
6:32:58Ben is like refreshing beverage where's
6:33:00lasallius lizelle
6:33:02needs to call this yes
6:33:05Okay so
6:33:07Quincy when he asked about Quincy she
6:33:10said she just needed someone to talk to
6:33:13about it if she just had someone to talk
6:33:16to you about all this she wouldn't even
6:33:19have had to make up all their stories
6:33:21it's everyone else's fault okay really
6:33:24that Taylor Swift song is for Leticia
6:33:26it's me hi I'm the problem yeah it's me
6:33:28it's you Leticia
6:33:30man wish we could play those songs but
6:33:33we can't we'll get copyright striked
6:33:35okay she delegated or asked people to
6:33:37look for him is what I wrote Because she
6:33:39said
6:33:39I asked people to look at all these
6:33:42certain places and then the FBI agents
6:33:45like like who what do you mean asked
6:33:48people to look she's like I I asked them
6:33:50go look and he's like so you didn't go
6:33:52look then she's like oh no no
6:33:54I told L that maybe we could go to these
6:33:56certain places and go and look
6:33:58no one knows what those certain places
6:33:59are and she definitely never went to
6:34:01look even that's so weird like I was
6:34:03telling people I was ordering people
6:34:05around go look wow wow
6:34:09yes I am not he painted we love you
6:34:11again and the whole world that's
6:34:13watching this trial even those that are
6:34:14not watching if you know about the case
6:34:16yes
6:34:16you know we we're all here for Gannon
6:34:21Okay so
6:34:23during these breaks which I call tea
6:34:24break
6:34:26even though I drink coffee mostly lots
6:34:28of coffee happening lots of coffee
6:34:30um
6:34:31yes in in these tea breaks we debrief
6:34:33what what the hell did we just hear
6:34:36Brittany thank you so much my my last
6:34:39week she thought she was so cool
6:34:40flipping everyone off now look at her
6:34:42thank you for your hard work and
6:34:44streaming this thank you so much
6:34:45Brittany
6:34:47so
6:34:49then
6:34:51he says
6:34:52do we know each other because she's
6:34:54trying to manipulate trying to say can
6:34:56you turn the cameras off can can it just
6:34:57be me and you you talking he's like do
6:34:59we know each other I really like that I
6:35:02need to write that down and use it one
6:35:03day okay thank you Erin I really
6:35:05appreciate that 10 minutes 10 minutes
6:35:07yes because I need to log back in there
6:35:10let me just stop the screen it's better
6:35:12to log out and log back in so that I
6:35:14don't have
6:35:15that microphone going sometimes it still
6:35:18happens anyway she said it's me against
6:35:20everyone else
6:35:23it's just me I think she said against
6:35:25everyone else it's me against everyone
6:35:27else so meaning everyone else against
6:35:28her actually but she said it's me
6:35:30against everyone else that's actually
6:35:31quite interesting that's what I wrote
6:35:32down
6:35:33just me against everyone else yeah it
6:35:34literally is
6:35:36it's you against everyone else she said
6:35:39she loved Gannon and she obviously we
6:35:41know she's used past tense from day one
6:35:43which was always a red flag even when
6:35:46Ganon was a missing person missing child
6:35:49missing endangered child
6:35:51her using Palestines was already like oh
6:35:54wow all the True Crime ears were going
6:35:56and now as well March 2nd 2020 she's
6:35:59like I loved Gannon I mean later she
6:36:02said even more extreme versions of that
6:36:04like I
6:36:05love the ground He Walked on and she
6:36:07just did a whole bunch of things like
6:36:08that right
6:36:09okay so she's looking for a form of
6:36:11immunity because she wants protection
6:36:13she's still asking for it
6:36:14now now guys there was so much they told
6:36:17us more about the Google searches we've
6:36:19gone over those Google searches multiple
6:36:21times there's a video on my playlist you
6:36:23can go look at as well
6:36:24we saw a lot of those Google searches
6:36:26but today we learned about even more of
6:36:28them and they're actually even worse
6:36:30amazing you see you see a probable cause
6:36:32affidavitas they leave out a lot for all
6:36:35those questioning the Brian coburger
6:36:36probably of course affidavit Idaho case
6:36:38if you haven't seen that that trial
6:36:40should be I don't know actually when
6:36:41it'll be the next hearings in June
6:36:43moving on the Google said
6:36:45something from blood from an arterial
6:36:47spray
6:36:48what
6:36:49can I spray paint wood
6:36:54I don't like my stepson
6:36:57I was shocked she also Googled about a
6:36:59hit and run
6:37:02does that mean that she
6:37:05she did a hit and run thing
6:37:08I don't know I don't know
6:37:11she said my husband wants a baby and I
6:37:13want an abortion something she Googled
6:37:15and then she goes on about wanting the
6:37:17kids to be hers I wanted them to be mine
6:37:20and she said Albert wouldn't have those
6:37:23kids if it wasn't for me that's such a
6:37:25lie
6:37:27I know that L and Landon had shared
6:37:29custody but Leticia it's not because of
6:37:31you that he has the kids it's his kids
6:37:34it's his kids
6:37:38what do you do if you suspect if someone
6:37:41has swallowed poison that was another
6:37:42one of her Google searches
6:37:45huh
6:37:47what do you do if you suspect someone
6:37:48has swallowed poison
6:37:50she's probably looking at how long
6:37:54would someone survive
6:37:57she also Googled something about loving
6:37:58me like a princess ew
6:38:02so someone who chat said arterial bleed
6:38:04bloody sheets and poison that's added to
6:38:07the Google searches and that's very
6:38:08concerning she said I knew it wasn't the
6:38:11wood that he would be freaking out about
6:38:12I'm just writing down I make bullet
6:38:14points here right
6:38:15like this like in air quotes for you and
6:38:18here it's in actual question I knew it
6:38:20wasn't the wood he would be freaking out
6:38:21about which is L she knows he's very
6:38:23particular about certain wood before she
6:38:25talked about some kind of
6:38:27I think she said like African fine wood
6:38:29or something never heard of that that
6:38:31would African fine went wood I mean I'm
6:38:33from South Africa but I'm like sorry
6:38:34what but now she says I knew it wasn't
6:38:36the wood he would be freaking out about
6:38:37yeah that plank that you took out there
6:38:39and left in Douglas County
6:38:40[Music]
6:38:41um
6:38:43um she said Albert had just left she
6:38:45talks about the foot injury on sand on
6:38:47Sunday and then she corrects herself and
6:38:49said oh sorry sorry I mean Saturday
6:38:50Saturday ooh okay the candle incident
6:38:53happened on Sunday
6:38:54so when she talks about the foot injury
6:38:56on Sunday too you see everything
6:38:57starting to go for Sunday that makes
6:39:00sense there's a hike and then I don't
6:39:01know what's happening that night
6:39:02she talks she writes she doesn't want to
6:39:05say it she writes on a notepad about a
6:39:07head wound happening on Saturday
6:39:09yes they said there's blood in her TIG
6:39:12one too much blood to be from a foot
6:39:14injury she argues it away and says only
6:39:15from the foot injury and they were
6:39:17sitting in the car
6:39:18so now we know there was a lot of blood
6:39:19in the Tiguan at the back
6:39:21Nancy Jennings said do you think her
6:39:23blaming so many people of other races of
6:39:25this murder of a child will affect her
6:39:26in prison I think it could I think that
6:39:29female presidents are unfortunately from
6:39:32what I've heard
6:39:34they little bit
6:39:36less aggro aggressive I think from just
6:39:39from things that I've watched on YouTube
6:39:41I've done my homework okay I've asked
6:39:43Uncle Google
6:39:45so I don't know
6:39:46but maybe yeah
6:39:49so my email and everything is on
6:39:53um Grizzly true crime.com
6:39:55okay we've got a few more minutes okay
6:39:57so
6:39:59she said I'm in the middle of a
6:40:01situation that I need help to get out of
6:40:03well that's true
6:40:05yeah you've literally been charged with
6:40:06first degree murder she was charged with
6:40:08first degree murder on February I'm
6:40:09sorry March 2nd 2020 and they hadn't
6:40:12found gannon's remains and they might
6:40:14have never found ganon's remains it was
6:40:16only by chance that a bridge inspector
6:40:18saw that suitcase when he was inspecting
6:40:20a bridge that only gets inspected every
6:40:22two years saw the bag and he's like whoa
6:40:24what is it like what let's open it and
6:40:26see and he said they oh you know the
6:40:28team opened it and see and looked what's
6:40:30inside because sometimes they find
6:40:33bags with puppies inside we were all
6:40:35like what
6:40:38they said unfortunately that's quite
6:40:39regular a regular thing and I'm like
6:40:41what
6:40:42so that must have been very scary to
6:40:44open it and be like oh my word
6:40:46um this is an interesting one where
6:40:51wait
6:40:53oh yeah the car had been washed
6:40:55she also said heading up to anything
6:40:57because you know any word that ends in
6:40:58ing she adds a K2 which is always like
6:41:01anything Paula says when did she confess
6:41:03she didn't but through her attorneys she
6:41:05did you know what I mean
6:41:06her attorneys are representing her she's
6:41:08silent her attorneys are saying
6:41:10Not Guilty by reason of insanity she
6:41:13didn't confess
6:41:15but
6:41:16through her attorney she did if you know
6:41:17what I mean okay so
6:41:20um
6:41:22she said truly in my heart so she said
6:41:25I know there's only a few minutes left
6:41:28she wants to talk to him alone so that
6:41:30truly they can see in her heart the
6:41:32situation
6:41:33okay the shoes her shoes that we saw on
6:41:35the top of that laundry pile had
6:41:36gannon's blood on it
6:41:38she said you must actually have
6:41:39compassion to help me
6:41:42and she said I want to help to the next
6:41:44level
6:41:45you haven't found Gannon because you're
6:41:47coming after me whoa whoa
6:41:50she said I'm just giving you scenarios
6:41:52yeah yeah literally what she's been
6:41:53doing all the time
6:41:55okay she brought up an FBI agent called
6:41:58Barbara which doesn't exist
6:42:01and
6:42:03just being whatever with Albert and then
6:42:05about the surveillance footage she said
6:42:07he was walking on Monday and then the
6:42:09FBI agency is not well and she says yeah
6:42:12okay he was walking then he said and he
6:42:14came back at two she says okay
6:42:17that's so weird to me
6:42:20like she she's
6:42:22making as if he didn't come back at two
6:42:24I know we all have our doubts about the
6:42:25surveillance and the timing and
6:42:26everything so it is interesting to me
6:42:27that a fake polygraph test
6:42:30I got better get that trial ready the
6:42:31fake polygraph test she one of the
6:42:33questions said did I return home with my
6:42:35stepson yes that's one of the questions
6:42:37she created and answered and even now
6:42:40she's like oh okay so maybe
6:42:42maybe she knocked him out or something
6:42:43and carried him into the house herself
6:42:46uh thanks so much for streaming the
6:42:48trial for us I really appreciate it says
6:42:49Maria thank you so much Maria I really
6:42:51appreciate it okay let's get that uh
6:42:54wait I've got to find it again
6:42:59WebEx
6:43:02now we're going to get
6:43:05robot cheese coming back
6:43:07prepare yourself
6:43:15okay a few more minutes
6:43:22is robot G back in the house that's when
6:43:25my microphone does robot when WebEx is
6:43:26open
6:43:30okay
6:43:34like that
6:43:37okay so I'll just wait to see when they
6:43:39come back
6:43:41right let's see what you say
6:43:45it tells us but gee it's not winning at
6:43:46the moment is he
6:43:48what are we talking about
6:43:52you mean the API agent I mean he
6:43:55couldn't say to Leticia look man we know
6:43:59okay we know what you did type thing
6:44:01because they didn't know where gannon's
6:44:03body was they had no idea so they needed
6:44:07to keep stringing her along and asking
6:44:09questions and going with all those
6:44:11stories because at the end of the day
6:44:12they wanted to find Ganon
6:44:15welcome to membership King Lear
6:44:22prosecution there you are yes all right
6:44:30who knows what happens producing back up
6:44:32while they're coming in fine
6:44:34okay
6:44:35yep
6:44:38co-host rights oh oh
6:44:41yeah I told her it was I said that's
6:44:45okay yeah not a problem hey Mr Allen yes
6:44:48we could stop yeah
6:44:58if you want if you wanted a little bit
6:45:00of cushion I could stop it even quarter
6:45:02till if you want just to give us that
6:45:03extra no it's just going to be a longer
6:45:05instruction for them because I since
6:45:07it's the weekend of reading the whole
6:45:09thing and
6:45:10um I want to go over exhibits okay
6:45:23that has been a constant problem hasn't
6:45:25it
6:45:26it's okay
6:45:28right no but I mean it just is
6:45:33it just happened to be done
6:45:39when they're transporting
6:45:42um
6:45:45it undid itself on time okay
6:45:49I'll rise for the jury please so it's
6:45:51just an extra step
6:46:01everyone's been so good yeah if I forget
6:46:05it yeah
6:46:18thank you you may all be seated recall
6:46:2120 cr1358 people versus Leticia Stout
6:46:24records should reflect return to the
6:46:26courtroom Mr Allen thank you iron we'll
6:46:28just need the screen to turn back on
6:46:30again
6:46:32thank you George
6:46:34in that last section and also in the
6:46:37section
6:46:38um where the other da was in the room
6:46:40um appears that
6:46:42defendant used misdirection again
6:46:45um again was that fairly common
6:46:47throughout this whole thing
6:46:49yes and she was very effective at doing
6:46:52it when we brought the district attorney
6:46:54in and she couldn't promise Leticia
6:46:57something that was yet just another
6:46:59obstacle that we had to overcome to get
6:47:01to the questions we were asking
6:47:04um similar to the idea that if
6:47:07she would put conditions out there that
6:47:09may maybe even be difficult for you to
6:47:11meet
6:47:12yeah the witness protection the DEA
6:47:16involving other federal agencies you
6:47:18know she she had
6:47:20a very organized way of thinking about
6:47:22how I might not be able to do the things
6:47:24she's asking and thus she might not have
6:47:26to answer the questions
6:47:28when when the when the misdirection
6:47:30would be employed by the defendant was
6:47:32it around specific points of interest in
6:47:35the story of what happened again yes
6:47:38such as what
6:47:40well right now we were trying to figure
6:47:42out who had him to get the identity of
6:47:45that that was where we were focused and
6:47:47then instead of giving a name she would
6:47:49give conditions but looking back at the
6:47:52phone calls she would do the same thing
6:47:53with Al it was a condition of their
6:47:56relationship status first before she
6:47:58would give a location of Gannon
6:48:02do you remember her making a statement
6:48:04right after what we just watched where
6:48:06she says I'm not the one
6:48:08yes
6:48:09um
6:48:10and you then go through a description of
6:48:13extradition to Colorado and being in
6:48:15jail yes okay we're going to play that
6:48:17next and that starts at
6:48:19three hours one minute 41 seconds
6:48:21through three hours three minutes and 33
6:48:24seconds
6:48:26I'll just play it directly from here
6:48:28actually because it's only six seconds
6:48:29later and most of these that happen in
6:48:33the house with parents I get what you're
6:48:35saying okay I understand I appreciate
6:48:38racing
6:48:40I appreciate all the work and time and
6:48:42dedication you put into all of these
6:48:44things to happen
6:48:47but I am not the one
6:48:49but then if you're nothing you're going
6:48:52so do you know what happens from here
6:48:53what you go to a local holding cell they
6:48:56hold you for 24 up to two weeks until
6:49:00you get extradited back to Colorado okay
6:49:03you're in jail Leticia
6:49:06and unless you tell me that somebody
6:49:08else did this you're the only one that
6:49:10didn't no I didn't do it but I'm telling
6:49:12you but I didn't but that's what would
6:49:15be horrible is it someone else did this
6:49:17and you're gonna let them skates because
6:49:19you're scared not letting someone Escape
6:49:21what could you possibly be scared of at
6:49:24this point I'm not letting do you think
6:49:26I'm saying let someone skate if I could
6:49:28take you directly to the person right
6:49:30now why do you think I would need
6:49:31resources
6:49:33you don't need research right now what
6:49:35you need is
6:49:37if someone took my son yeah and I know
6:49:41who it is am I going to go to jail for
6:49:44the rest of my life because someone else
6:49:46took myself no absolutely not no and
6:49:48would I be afraid of my own protection
6:49:50going to jail when I could be free and
6:49:53that person could go to jail
6:49:56even if I walked you to the person she
6:49:59just sat there and said
6:50:00well why I can't make any promises I
6:50:02can't make promises which is better to
6:50:04go to jail for the rest of your life and
6:50:07and hope that we find the person or to
6:50:08point us to a person
6:50:10if I'm in your position it makes no
6:50:12sense right
6:50:14what could you be scared of at this
6:50:16point
6:50:17reprisals no
6:50:19um the fact that I'm you don't have
6:50:22but there you would have found some of
6:50:24this already if you would have had the
6:50:25resource it that's what scares me
6:50:29so stopping it at three hours three
6:50:30minutes and 33 seconds after you explain
6:50:33the extradition you said you're the only
6:50:36one that did this
6:50:37um does she then use misdirection again
6:50:39to get you off topic and move you away
6:50:41from trying to press her yes
6:50:46what about the what's your impression of
6:50:47that very end where um what scares me
6:50:50from her perspective is you would have
6:50:52found this if you had the resources
6:50:54what's your take on that
6:50:56it's what I explained to her earlier
6:50:59that she's expecting me to know answers
6:51:01to
6:51:03the questions that only she has the
6:51:04answers to
6:51:10she also in a sense
6:51:12um challenging whether you even have the
6:51:14the ability as an FBI agency to provide
6:51:19her the things that she's putting down
6:51:20as conditions yes
6:51:24did you confront her by saying uh right
6:51:27after this her story makes no sense I
6:51:29did so I'm going to jump jump to that
6:51:31section it's three hours three minutes
6:51:33and 49 seconds and it goes through three
6:51:36hours four minutes and 59 seconds
6:51:40so your story makes no sense and what it
6:51:42goes back to now is that you can't take
6:51:44responsibility for what happened to Nana
6:51:46I didn't do anything to him you can't
6:51:48insert someone else in here unless
6:51:50you're going to tell me who it is okay I
6:51:52didn't do anything again
6:51:55but then you would tell me who it is
6:51:58[Music]
6:51:59did he do it to himself
6:52:05did Dan and do it to himself
6:52:09the head injury the neck injury whatever
6:52:12that was that caused that pool of blood
6:52:15down by the bottom of its bed you know
6:52:17that the sheets and all that stuff the
6:52:19blood seats down in
6:52:20what now the blood seeped down corner
6:52:25through the seats into the mattress
6:52:29I have no idea what you're talking about
6:52:31you cleaned it up off the wall
6:52:34oh wait wait wait there's
6:52:38I don't know anything about blood and
6:52:41sheets okay I did not take any sheets
6:52:43and clean them you told Al on the phone
6:52:45just cleaned up the wall
6:52:51so now pause that three hours four
6:52:54minutes and 59 seconds
6:52:56um you start to confront her about the
6:52:58head injury and the blood and all that
6:53:00sort of thing
6:53:01um did she use misdirection there again
6:53:03directing away from the head injury yes
6:53:06what's what was significant about that
6:53:08to you
6:53:13by this point you know none of my
6:53:15questioning was effective with her so
6:53:17every time we would go to one of these
6:53:19and she would misdirect
6:53:22um
6:53:23the significance just was that I was
6:53:25going to have to change course yet again
6:53:28was this happening as you're trying to
6:53:30dive into what actually happened again
6:53:32in but then she diverts over to the
6:53:34sheets yes
6:53:38um
6:53:39what's happening here where someone's
6:53:41come in and said something to you and
6:53:43then you're getting up to leave
6:53:45so Leticia had requested to talk to me
6:53:47off camera and the police department
6:53:51could not turn the camera off so they
6:53:53had decided to get us a separate room
6:53:55and myself and special agent Cohen were
6:53:58going to speak with Leticia off camera
6:54:00in this other room
6:54:05and so is there a period of time where
6:54:07the room is just empty while you're off
6:54:08with the defendant in some other room
6:54:10yes okay so we're going to talk about
6:54:12that and so
6:54:13the
6:54:15um
6:54:17I'm going to play it until both of you
6:54:19are out of the room and then we'll pause
6:54:20it again
6:55:34foreign
6:55:54do anything to eat
6:55:56pick your water with you just in case
6:56:07great yes
6:56:14so uh before we get into this off-camera
6:56:17discussion that you had with the
6:56:18defendant that little portion where she
6:56:20was inside the room by just herself what
6:56:23did you see anything in there that
6:56:24caused you concern as to her mental
6:56:26faculties no does she appear to be
6:56:28acting normal to you yes okay
6:56:31this off-camera discussion
6:56:34um
6:56:34let's talk about first the just the
6:56:37process that was undertaken here who was
6:56:40involved with it first of all
6:56:42uh well Myrtle Beach arranged for us to
6:56:45have another room to talk with her in I
6:56:48believe chairs were already put out it
6:56:50was a lot bigger room than this one from
6:56:53what I recall and uh myself I introduced
6:56:57or I guess special agent Cohen
6:56:59introduced himself and we just sat in
6:57:02the middle of the room to see what she
6:57:04had to say and when you say special
6:57:05agent Cohen you're talking about the guy
6:57:07sitting here that guy yes that guy
6:57:11should we call him that guy from you
6:57:12know
6:57:14uh how long would you say that portion
6:57:17of of your interaction with the
6:57:18defendant lasted
6:57:20I recall about 30 or 40 minutes maybe
6:57:24was she talking to you in that room much
6:57:27the same way we've been seeing in this
6:57:28recorded interview yes can you give the
6:57:31jury
6:57:32um some ideas to what that means
6:57:35it was more of needing protection that I
6:57:38recall
6:57:39uh the the primary things I remember
6:57:41from this was that this person or people
6:57:46that she was saying was responsible for
6:57:49again and might have been associated
6:57:50with an app that was on her phone
6:57:53and that Al had wanted
6:57:56Leticia to participate in a threesome
6:57:59and this person that was part of the
6:58:00threesome might be the person
6:58:02responsible for gannon's disappearance
6:58:05when you say um these people is she
6:58:08pointing her finger away from herself
6:58:10saying these people or is she saying
6:58:12these people that are inside of herself
6:58:15no it's another person or and why I say
6:58:18people is when she's talking to me it
6:58:20sounded like a group so I'm leaving that
6:58:22just kind of open but she was referring
6:58:25to this threesome is like it was another
6:58:27female
6:58:29who was involved that if we find who's
6:58:32in
6:58:33in this app we might find the person who
6:58:36abducted Ganon
6:58:37in the when you're saying app you're
6:58:40talking about was she saying an app on a
6:58:42phone that's correct okay and when when
6:58:45we're talking about these other people
6:58:48um just to be very clear she's not
6:58:51well is she saying that these other
6:58:53personalities that are inside of her own
6:58:55self other persons or personalities no
6:58:58okay
6:59:00did she describe in that portion of your
6:59:02interview that's off camera a different
6:59:05way in which Ganon suffered a head
6:59:07injury
6:59:08yes what was that
6:59:11I believe it was the pushing the beds
6:59:13together okay uh did she describe that
6:59:16as occurring on Saturday night so that
6:59:18would be January 25th yes
6:59:24do you remember
6:59:25um her giving you any description as to
6:59:27her looking at and assessing that injury
6:59:30yes Leticia said she looked at the
6:59:32injury assessed it and said it wasn't
6:59:35very egregious did she include
6:59:38specifically that it didn't even need
6:59:40stitches yes
6:59:42does she give a description as to where
6:59:44on the head on that injury occurred
6:59:47I don't recall at this point okay if you
6:59:50saw your report would that refresher
6:59:51memory yes okay hold on just a second
7:00:55no I'm not seeing it in this particular
7:00:57report so let me come back to that in
7:00:58just a moment
7:01:00um
7:01:03did she talk to you about taking a SIM
7:01:04card from her phone
7:01:06yes what did she say about that
7:01:09yeah I don't remember that either sorry
7:01:10okay well that one is definitely in this
7:01:13report that I've got my hand right now
7:01:15um
7:01:16before I get to that though were you
7:01:18aware
7:01:19um from the investigation that her cell
7:01:23phone was seized by El Paso County
7:01:24Sheriff's Office uh on January 29th when
7:01:27she tried to leave the sheriff's office
7:01:29during her interview yes
7:01:31um do you know or are you aware of cell
7:01:34phones having SIM cards that are in them
7:01:36correct uh and so her indication that
7:01:40she still had a SIM card from that phone
7:01:41would that be uh factually possible it
7:01:45should not be okay
7:01:52I'm going to show you again
7:01:55I'm sorry 7219
7:02:08SIM card sections here
7:02:10um this is paid pagination
7:02:1211-7220 page 304.
7:02:17look at that let me know when you're
7:02:18done
7:02:21okay did that refresh your memory yes
7:02:26what did she say about the SIM card
7:02:28she said that it was the SIM card she
7:02:31had previously but she had placed it in
7:02:33her friend's phone okay
7:02:36did she describe getting a bunch of
7:02:38messages then at that time yes
7:02:43was this another distraction in your
7:02:45mind
7:02:46yes it was nothing that we thought was
7:02:48possible I don't even know if the
7:02:51investigation was able to verify it or
7:02:53not because that happened after my
7:02:54involvement okay and then going back to
7:02:58that head injury issue that we were
7:03:00talking about earlier where I asked if
7:03:02it would refresh your memory to see the
7:03:03report I just didn't pick up this one
7:03:05page it's 117218
7:03:08we are approaching uh have him review
7:03:10that page
7:03:17this last paragraph on this age thanks
7:03:36okay did that refresh your memory it did
7:03:38where did she describe that head injury
7:03:41um that was caused by pushing the beds
7:03:43together occurring on gannon's head
7:03:46she said it was a gash in his left
7:03:47temple
7:03:49did she also give a full assessment of
7:03:50other injuries during this portion no
7:03:53okay
7:03:55was there some discussion here about
7:03:58um Angel and Petco
7:04:00yes what do you remember her saying
7:04:02about that
7:04:04well we discussed Angel later
7:04:08on back on camera but I remember angel
7:04:12coming up as a result of this app and
7:04:15the threesome that happened as Angel was
7:04:17a female who may have been involved in
7:04:20ganon's disappearance
7:04:21in this Angel is potentially the one
7:04:24that the defendant was suggesting might
7:04:26have been contacted for the threesome
7:04:29issue correct
7:04:35shortly after that portion of the
7:04:37discussion do you come back on camera
7:04:39with the defendant yes all right I'm
7:04:41going to retrieve that page of a report
7:04:43from you
7:04:53and jump to uh the next time that you're
7:04:56in the room which is three hours 13
7:04:58minutes and 25 seconds
7:05:13is this um
7:05:15immediately uh after you get out of that
7:05:18separate room that's not recorded you
7:05:21then discuss angel on camera
7:05:23yes is that what we're about to watch
7:05:25here yes okay so I'm going to play uh
7:05:28three hours 13 minutes and 25 seconds
7:05:31through three hours 25 minutes and 41
7:05:33seconds judge this is about a 12 minute
7:05:36gap of time so maybe you want Mr
7:05:38gruesome to sit down okay
7:05:42you're all right foreign
7:05:51[Music]
7:06:00[Music]
7:06:12[Music]
7:06:20the world have you met her
7:06:25when did she come to your house
7:06:30[Music]
7:06:33and then who all did she babysit
7:06:40okay
7:06:50thank you
7:06:51quite a few people
7:06:56thank you
7:06:58oh the domesticisms that are coming
7:07:01through to your phone that you know
7:07:03threats or whatever they are they come
7:07:05and confirm
7:07:06[Music]
7:07:18ative Snapchat name I would need to have
7:07:21them at home but do you remember would
7:07:23you have her name in it can you see that
7:07:25numbers
7:07:33um
7:07:38[Music]
7:07:43to take you back but we have to benefit
7:07:48if I'm not going to get any help
7:07:55I trusted you
7:07:58well we we went in there I know and and
7:08:02I don't know
7:08:03the T-shirt If it's just the way you're
7:08:05used to communicating I had a long
7:08:07period of time but you know when when
7:08:09you're asked a question you don't really
7:08:11answer
7:08:12you kind of go in a little circle yeah
7:08:17like where did you guys again and then
7:08:19you say well it's supposed to drop off
7:08:21you know so we're just used to asking
7:08:25you a question and then you tell us an
7:08:26answer and it's just you know
7:08:31as always
7:08:47what five ten years I mean most of the
7:08:51time
7:09:00thank you it's gonna look bad no I'm not
7:09:03that's not what I'm talking about
7:09:10it's not even going to look like that
7:09:13here's what it's going to look like is
7:09:14that you were the last one again and
7:09:16nothing on this Angel thing we can or we
7:09:19can't authenticate in with that when you
7:09:21say they fall off camera like with the
7:09:24black and Paul in the parking lot we
7:09:26have cameras for that whole placement we
7:09:28don't see you even with anybody okay can
7:09:30you like show me that so that I can show
7:09:32you where what direction
7:09:34but
7:09:36you would know where it is where did you
7:09:38get the right direction because
7:09:42would you talk about my direction
7:09:58that's offering help
7:10:00yeah it's it's
7:10:02but the interview goes into this car I
7:10:07mean this is the person that you trust
7:10:08right that's the thing
7:10:10so then why would you go home
7:10:16you're reading I never said he was here
7:10:19well that you were he was at the house
7:10:22yeah but do you see where I'm wrong why
7:10:25would you make up that story to law
7:10:27enforcement
7:10:29that he was going to a friend house
7:10:32because if her admission was afraid
7:10:36I mean I don't understand how that's a
7:10:38problem
7:10:39Angel's nephew was a friend oh that's
7:10:42right that they had played together
7:10:44but she was did she live in your area
7:10:47foreign
7:11:02but the people are they different people
7:11:05from Angel
7:11:07I mean are they acting on her behalf
7:11:09because that doesn't sound like a friend
7:11:10of me and obviously if if they're not
7:11:13helping with your childhood
7:11:15but how do you think that makes sense
7:11:19trusting people
7:11:22if he doesn't make them
7:11:24like figures
7:11:27some people trusting someone
7:11:34do you know who tells the story from
7:11:36here on out your story
7:11:39I answer him
7:11:40but do you know who tells the story how
7:11:43this works out even here
7:11:50shooting one
7:11:53there is an angel well just like we
7:11:55found Quincy brown right away we can
7:11:57find angels but if there's Not An Angel
7:12:01that's the last story you're going to
7:12:03tell law enforcement about DNA sure what
7:12:06but I mean we'll be able to get we'll
7:12:07get your warrants for the threes paying
7:12:10whatever else we'll go interview this
7:12:11Angel and if it's like what I think
7:12:13Quincy Brown is
7:12:14an angels I will help you okay
7:12:20and I gave you the wrong information
7:12:25but I think I can help you
7:12:29how is that
7:12:40right
7:12:43I'm happy to chase down anything
7:12:49no T-shirt and I can but I think that
7:12:52I'll left you alone because you've gone
7:12:55to Alaska for so long and then he's on
7:12:58this trip and we're not raising Ganon
7:13:00and something bad happens it's your
7:13:04fault again if it doesn't really matter
7:13:05and you panic and you asked us was I the
7:13:09person talking for all yes I was
7:13:11what I think the closest you came was
7:13:14talking about his head injury
7:13:16and then because you asked how you have
7:13:20like no if someone took your son you
7:13:23would have called I did call him you
7:13:25should never call the police yes I did I
7:13:27called the police Petco right when they
7:13:29right when he was taken
7:13:35he was a home I did but you didn't you
7:13:38were supposed to meet her what the next
7:13:39morning
7:13:40I called immediately when it fixed
7:13:43sticks up Tommy was supposed
7:13:47he did and then what did you tell him
7:13:48you already know what I told them yeah
7:13:51but that doesn't make it that doesn't
7:13:52make any sense why does it yeah because
7:13:55you I told you
7:13:57I talked to a lot of people that are
7:13:59sitting in the same chair you are right
7:14:01now and I've seen them
7:14:04and and I'm sorry if it offends you if I
7:14:06say story but that's the only way you're
7:14:08coping with this right roping yes yeah
7:14:11we all coach okay
7:14:13um
7:14:15I'm not saying you did I'm just saying
7:14:17that you're unwilling to come to the
7:14:20group because it's going to be painful I
7:14:22gave you the truth I did hurt you that's
7:14:25the truth so the last truth you want to
7:14:27tell me
7:14:28it's about angels
7:14:31because you didn't help me
7:14:34I will help you if you will tell me one
7:14:36concrete way to find gamma
7:14:39okay
7:14:41or t-shirt you're not China yes I am
7:14:45not sure you can be a hero here you can
7:14:50I'm far from a hero but you can be I'm a
7:14:53parent you're a parent do not hurt a
7:14:55child you're a parent who was left
7:14:57behind the deal with the stepson
7:15:10that's not a problem
7:15:12that's not a problem at all like for you
7:15:14to say that to someone
7:15:16it's hurtful that's what's hurtful
7:15:19it's not a problem to take care of
7:15:21children it's not a problem to take care
7:15:22of children but bad things happen in the
7:15:24house all the time
7:15:26no
7:15:28no no
7:15:28[Music]
7:15:32no
7:15:34do you want me to walk through where all
7:15:36the blood was or do you know it already
7:15:37I don't I know for a fact that I did not
7:15:42hurt you I was your bottom of your shoes
7:15:47you know and live with that and know
7:15:50that God knows I did not hurt again
7:15:53and I'm okay with that well you can
7:15:55convince yourself about all day okay but
7:15:58sir that's not helping us there but is
7:16:01there a way for me to help you even if
7:16:03you're trying to convince yourself it
7:16:04doesn't happen is there some way for you
7:16:06to say through a third party
7:16:13I don't know what else to tell you but I
7:16:15do not hurt you
7:16:18good night
7:16:20and you won't tell me who did would not
7:16:22well that blood will not be in the house
7:16:24if angels
7:16:27like that that's far beyond what you're
7:16:31even talking about
7:16:34like many of times we've had blood in
7:16:37our house do you remember the spray that
7:16:39was on the wall I mean goodness gracious
7:16:42I've seen the markers from the spray the
7:16:45spray went from the bed all the way up
7:16:47here
7:16:48when you had to clean it up near no it's
7:16:51not a smear
7:16:53it's a spray all right sir I don't know
7:16:56what you're talking about spray I don't
7:16:58know what that means I don't I don't I
7:17:00don't know anything about that okay it
7:17:03comes from aspirators you're going to
7:17:04hear all this anyway so I'll show you it
7:17:06comes from aspirated blood you know what
7:17:09that means
7:17:10it means that he didn't accidentally do
7:17:12okay
7:17:14okay so that's what we were waiting on
7:17:17for the warrants because somebody struck
7:17:20down in the bed no
7:17:24it's going if someone struck Gannon in
7:17:26the bed thank God we were all drug then
7:17:30if that's what that's what you're saying
7:17:32happened
7:17:33God we were all drunk
7:17:38well then can you tell me how that flood
7:17:40got on the wall That's gannon's blood
7:17:42okay well I guess so if you think you
7:17:45have all the answers then you're making
7:17:46the guess I'm not you've got the answer
7:17:49I just I'm not going to be respectful to
7:17:52you okay you offered to help me you
7:17:55didn't help me so I'm just gonna thank
7:17:57you
7:18:04so we've got it paused at three hours 25
7:18:06minutes and 41 seconds
7:18:10Mr gruesing um
7:18:12discontinuation of the discussion about
7:18:14angel was there any indication in the
7:18:16investigation that somebody by the name
7:18:18of Angel was involved in gana's
7:18:19disappearance no uh at the beginning
7:18:23when you asked her for her being the
7:18:25defendant for a description of Angel
7:18:27what did she say
7:18:29she said that angel looks a lot like
7:18:31herself
7:18:35do you remember the um defendant saying
7:18:38that she had no motive to do this
7:18:40yes
7:18:41um we're going to play that next it's
7:18:43three hours 26 minutes through three
7:18:46hours 34 minutes
7:18:48uh so about eight minutes judge I don't
7:18:51know if you want him to stay up for
7:18:52eight minutes or not
7:18:53on the stand or not
7:18:55um give me just a minute okay
7:19:01um you can it's up to you Mr cruising if
7:19:04you want to stay there for the eight
7:19:05minutes or so
7:19:09he's got a step school I think
7:19:22I've got a three hours 26 minutes and
7:19:25zero seconds so having skipped roughly
7:19:2819 seconds and then we're going to play
7:19:30through three hours 34 minutes if
7:19:32someone presents this with evidence
7:19:35then we just follow the evidence okay
7:19:37right now you're the last person who
7:19:39Cannon okay I don't do bad things in
7:19:42people I don't I don't think you do bad
7:19:45things some people I don't do bad things
7:19:47to anyone and I didn't do anything bad
7:19:49again
7:19:50I think something bad happened again and
7:19:52I don't know of a way to get you to tell
7:19:54me about it I tried throughout
7:19:57to get you to tell me about it we've
7:19:59tried here okay you came and I think
7:20:01what I think you have a defense
7:20:03mechanism
7:20:05and I think your defense mechanism was
7:20:07you need to go into another room you
7:20:09tell us no that was not
7:20:11no defense mechanism I trusted you to
7:20:14talk to you because I thought if you
7:20:16trusted me to talk to me you would tell
7:20:18me where Vanna is right now
7:20:20I don't know
7:20:21do you know where he lost was and it
7:20:24wasn't at the Disco
7:20:26you can't make me guess that's not fair
7:20:28to me why would I wouldn't if you're not
7:20:31going to help me you tell me how to help
7:20:33you
7:20:33I already did
7:20:37I already did tell you
7:20:39I told you how you could help me nobody
7:20:43holds the kid life okay okay that's what
7:20:45that's what I think I'm just saying okay
7:20:48the sun comes up in the morning it goes
7:20:50down at night every day we have worked
7:20:53hundreds of these things what do you
7:20:55think okay
7:20:57me talking to you is not going to do
7:21:00anything else because all you're going
7:21:02to do is go think that you're going to
7:21:06get me to say something that I did that
7:21:08I didn't do because I did not do
7:21:10anything to Gannon
7:21:13why would I hurt our child I'd ever
7:21:17think in the world
7:21:19why I have no motives none
7:21:23don't have the first motive everything I
7:21:26wanted in my life I had it why
7:21:31doesn't make any sense it doesn't make
7:21:33sense a lot of the time what happens
7:21:35inside of a house
7:21:37right there I don't even know what
7:21:38you're talking about
7:21:40all right all I can tell you is
7:21:44no reason to
7:21:46in fact to go on the record I had a way
7:21:49better relationship with Gannon than I
7:21:51did Elena
7:21:53way better
7:21:55that's scary so much in life we always
7:21:58like the same thing we always have
7:22:01problems with we always do all these
7:22:03things
7:22:05do you know that there's almost a
7:22:06correlation sometimes between how much
7:22:08you get along with someone and how
7:22:12bad things happen in the house I'm
7:22:14telling you that yeah I don't well maybe
7:22:17bad things happening they happen in the
7:22:19house a lot more than they do out of
7:22:21public maybe bad things happen in your
7:22:23house
7:22:24okay do you would it help if we showed
7:22:28you pictures
7:22:33when you say nothing bad happened
7:22:36you can't get around
7:22:38yes now but we did not show Al that on
7:22:40purpose he had to come get stuff out of
7:22:42the house and he looked and saw
7:22:44the blood tool was about this big on the
7:22:47concrete okay
7:22:49that is not from a little gosh okay and
7:22:52then what and then you showed this to
7:22:54him or how did you see them he had to
7:22:56come get stuff out of the house I wasn't
7:22:58even there that day after you allowed
7:23:00people to stay in this house for a week
7:23:02I did not allow anybody to do anything
7:23:05that's not my call okay so so what I'm
7:23:09saying though is the wings that you're
7:23:10describing to him even when you're
7:23:12saying it doesn't sir I will tell you
7:23:14now when you say the head thing was
7:23:16Saturday yeah why did Tony now man
7:23:18people were inside of our home living
7:23:21and it was not me
7:23:23so maybe maybe you can talk to whoever
7:23:27allowed people to live in the home okay
7:23:31whatever you're saying that was done
7:23:33extra or whatever maybe you can talk to
7:23:36those people who were allowed to stay in
7:23:39a home during this supposedly okay
7:23:43that's what I think maybe you can talk
7:23:46to people who were you're saying that
7:23:49the injury again happened I'm not saying
7:23:51easy except I know you're telling me
7:23:54this stuff you're saying this about oh
7:23:57how bad these were in these things are
7:23:58all I can tell you is maybe you can talk
7:24:01to the people that were allowed to stay
7:24:02in the home
7:24:04during this time during this time that
7:24:06you have this supposed evidence people
7:24:09that were allowed to stay in the home
7:24:11and people that were allowed to walk in
7:24:13and out to see it supposedly okay so
7:24:16Gannon was in all these wounds happen
7:24:19after he went I'm not saying anything
7:24:21other than sir you are you are telling
7:24:24me you need your own record and telling
7:24:26me the Albert went inside somewhere that
7:24:29you were supposed to have as a supposed
7:24:31crime scene
7:24:33I wasn't there for that if you want to
7:24:34get an answer for you about who's with
7:24:36him that's not what I'm asking you I'm
7:24:38saying for you you as a professional you
7:24:41would have allowed that supposedly if he
7:24:44has to go get stuff okay yeah I'm sure
7:24:46as long as the scene has been processed
7:24:48okay process sure okay
7:24:54doesn't it sound a little bit weird to
7:24:57you and Christine has been processed no
7:24:59I had a girl that was burned alive in a
7:25:01house in Bailey the thing was processed
7:25:04supposedly when people were still there
7:25:07day one day two
7:25:09days day four day five day six
7:25:12in the seamless process you're saying
7:25:14that people are going in and out of the
7:25:16house civilians while they were
7:25:17processing this thing I'm asking you
7:25:19that because apparently you you said the
7:25:21scene was processed and then there's you
7:25:24want me to talk to you when I know that
7:25:26how Shady that whole situation is and
7:25:29you want me to give you answers for how
7:25:32Shady that is
7:25:34so you need to tell me and the theme
7:25:36that was processed being one day two day
7:25:37three day four there was nobody going in
7:25:38and out there was people living there
7:25:40right okay when they thought again it
7:25:42was still alive
7:25:43living there okay but you're seeing the
7:25:45same as process because
7:25:48not you but people surely were there
7:25:51it's all on camera there was crime scene
7:25:54people there while people were living
7:25:57there of course because they didn't know
7:25:59the severity of the scene they just
7:26:00thought Gannon was a ran away like you
7:26:02said okay
7:26:05how am I supposed to put my trust in
7:26:08faith in any bit of their system like
7:26:10that when that was going on
7:26:14so you're trying to put Faith in the
7:26:16system
7:26:20if you would have told police the very
7:26:23first night that he was taken forcibly
7:26:26everything would have been different
7:26:27that's not forcibly okay I said exactly
7:26:30what I said which was he didn't come
7:26:32back at six o'clock
7:26:34if you would have said other people have
7:26:36him and they should not have parents it
7:26:38would have been different
7:26:40new controlled the way that law
7:26:42enforcement responded I did so now it's
7:26:45my fault that they yes
7:26:49had people in there doing this supposed
7:26:51crime scene and now you have all this
7:26:54stuff I've been let people live there
7:26:56and now you want to look at me and say
7:26:58something sir I did not start gaming
7:27:01okay okay well who did do not who did do
7:27:05not
7:27:13I don't care if you did it or not
7:27:17sure I didn't okay but you're saying you
7:27:20did it but that doesn't help it's fine
7:27:21okay well I didn't do it I didn't do
7:27:24anything
7:27:25I would not have no motive no reason
7:27:29for a child no reason no reason
7:27:33so we paused it at three hours 34
7:27:35minutes
7:27:47Mr gruesing um at the beginning you
7:27:50talked to or made a statement about a
7:27:52defense mechanism going into the other
7:27:54room what was the purpose of you saying
7:27:55that
7:27:59well defense mechanism or misdirection I
7:28:02was trying to you know hone in on what
7:28:04happened that day and
7:28:07neither I nor special agent Owen found
7:28:10her story about angel to be credible
7:28:18this tangent that were that we just
7:28:21witnessed happening where um you're
7:28:23trying to get her to give Pooh hurt
7:28:25Gannon right that challenge of that and
7:28:28then she's talking about the scene
7:28:30instead what was your impression of that
7:28:34it was another yet another
7:28:37um attempt to
7:28:39knocked me off my line of questioning
7:28:41another misdirection as you can see
7:28:44she's very effective at doing it and uh
7:28:50I was telling her that the whole reason
7:28:52that law enforcement responded like they
7:28:54did was based on her initial report but
7:28:57as she continues to talk over me and
7:29:00saying that because of the way she
7:29:02created Gannon just being at a friend's
7:29:04house now that is a problem it's yet
7:29:07another big hurdle that I've got to
7:29:08overcome to get to what happened again
7:29:11in that last clip that we played Words
7:29:13the discussion about angel did in some
7:29:16respects did she actually revert back to
7:29:18Gannon is with a friend and didn't come
7:29:19home on time yes so reverting back to
7:29:22the very original story that she told
7:29:23the police on January 27th right
7:29:27uh that statement that she makes in this
7:29:30particular portion
7:29:31um she likes gaining way more than
7:29:33Elaine than Lena
7:29:34you remember that yes uh when you went
7:29:37through those searches with her earlier
7:29:38in the interview did you find any or did
7:29:40you recount any searches I should say
7:29:43um to the defendant about uh involving
7:29:46stepdaughters or Elena specifically no
7:29:49uh in fact you read to her some of those
7:29:53searches one of them I don't like my
7:29:54stepson correct I don't like my stepson
7:29:57should I get a divorce yes
7:30:04did you ask her um after this portion of
7:30:07the discussion about Quincy and Eduardo
7:30:09and the mountains I did what were you
7:30:12trying to get to there
7:30:15well as you could see with this story it
7:30:18didn't take her long to get off of Angel
7:30:19and then divert to other people being in
7:30:22the house and I wanted to just address
7:30:24the other stories yet again and again
7:30:27where we are at this point is we're
7:30:29still trying to find clues about where
7:30:31Gannon is
7:30:32uh
7:30:34and I had already explained to her that
7:30:36I think the closest she came to
7:30:37describing ganon's injuries was when she
7:30:40spoke about Quincy Brown so I decided to
7:30:43go back there and give that a try
7:30:45what do you mean by that that the
7:30:46closest she was to describing uh ganon's
7:30:49true injuries was when she was talking
7:30:51about Quincy Brown tell me what you're
7:30:53talking about well I never saw the full
7:30:55autopsy and of what happened again and I
7:30:59only heard about it second hand but when
7:31:01she was describing uh the head the the
7:31:04hands the knees and the blood pouring
7:31:07that's that's the most descriptive
7:31:09uh she had she had come with us with
7:31:12with us meaning investigative team even
7:31:14including here
7:31:16so that was the the most descriptive as
7:31:18far as any potential injuries that she
7:31:20was willing to tell the investigation
7:31:22correct
7:31:26so we're at three hours 34 minutes and
7:31:2850 seconds we're going to play a five
7:31:29minute clip uh three two three hours 39
7:31:33minutes and 50 seconds
7:31:38if you give me another name I will chase
7:31:40that person
7:31:42you've tried you've tried Eduardo in the
7:31:44house you tried Quincy Brown up in the
7:31:46mountains now you've tried Angel I've
7:31:48never seen anything yes you did he was
7:31:51supposed to ride a bike up there in the
7:31:53mountains with Quincy Brown
7:31:55but if you ever told you that
7:31:58you were you said you knew I was in the
7:32:00room
7:32:03FBI you never know who you were I didn't
7:32:06ever say FBI either that's not what I
7:32:08said law enforcement no I said I know
7:32:10someone is listening I got to be us no
7:32:13it could be anybody
7:32:16exactly there's no there's no point of
7:32:18arguing that you're not going to help me
7:32:22I think you could control this story by
7:32:26well you you are concerned about what
7:32:29other people think I've been completely
7:32:31respectful to you and I have talked to
7:32:34you I've been respectful to you and kind
7:32:37to you
7:32:38I did all these things to you because
7:32:40that was just that's who I am Stars
7:32:43raised I wasn't raised to be bad to
7:32:45people we care about a person
7:32:48but I think bad things happen all the
7:32:50time our students why bad things have to
7:32:52happen because if 11 year old boy is not
7:32:54home and he's not hanging out with
7:32:56somebody okay okay
7:32:59I'm glad that you think something so bad
7:33:03happens all the time I'm sorry that you
7:33:05have to have this uh
7:33:07build up of nothing but
7:33:09no compassion you know I'm sorry for
7:33:12that
7:33:13I really am
7:33:15but I I have no reason no reason
7:33:19none
7:33:21to hurt anyone in my fame none
7:33:26can you tell me why there's blood on
7:33:28them
7:33:31it's Tuesday the covered in the garage
7:33:33in the garage or in the top of the
7:33:36washer
7:33:38people were did you think I didn't walk
7:33:40around his shoes
7:33:45I've already told you we were outside
7:33:48unloading stuff
7:33:50what has that got to do with anything we
7:33:52outside unloading my car
7:33:55I mean come on
7:33:57that doesn't that doesn't mean
7:33:58somebody's this bad person and done
7:34:00something wrong
7:34:05thing like that
7:34:08but her DNA innocent loving
7:34:12helped me out more than any person in
7:34:15the household
7:34:18where did Albert
7:34:20more than anyone help me tell me again
7:34:23no help me you know how much you'll be
7:34:27helping me with everything pulling
7:34:29everybody else was like who did it and I
7:34:33think that's why this has been hard
7:34:35you're right
7:34:37it's already right
7:34:39it's hard because
7:34:43um
7:34:45I do not have to know for me
7:34:49very hard
7:34:51knowing that right now
7:34:54sitting at home
7:34:56and knowing the situation you know again
7:34:58I want to do
7:35:00you wait on me anything I would ask him
7:35:02just to make sure I was okay
7:35:05anything
7:35:06oh peoplehood before even Albert would
7:35:10even do it
7:35:15if it was senior right now
7:35:17and needed anything from me to ask him
7:35:20to do anything he would do
7:35:24so there's no there's no intention
7:35:27motive reasoning nothing
7:35:30again nothing for her in in any kind of
7:35:34way none you did stay on the phone calls
7:35:37there was no premeditation involved
7:35:41I was saying to Albert like he would if
7:35:45you comment when Albert was asking me
7:35:46that I would simply thinking you were
7:35:48trying to get him or whoever's trying to
7:35:49get him to walk me down some pathway of
7:35:53whatever it may be
7:35:54whatever that may be come on sir I don't
7:35:58I didn't wake up and be like Oh My Life
7:36:01changed today that's not how it works my
7:36:04bad people whether you say
7:36:07this or do that or do that or do this
7:36:11they just do bad things to people
7:36:14well I told you good people do bad
7:36:16things
7:36:17okay
7:36:23but you
7:36:26if you had any key to telling us organ
7:36:29and is you would tell it to us if you
7:36:32were a good person
7:36:34would you not
7:36:37and so
7:36:39so pausing it now at um three hours 39
7:36:42minutes and 50 seconds
7:36:44at the very beginning of this uh you
7:36:48said if you give me another name we'll
7:36:49chase that down
7:36:51have you ever tried to go back and count
7:36:53uh the number of different versions of
7:36:55stories this defendant gave during the
7:36:57dependency of this investigation
7:36:59no I've not
7:37:01too many to count
7:37:03I just haven't sat down and done it it's
7:37:06quite a few
7:37:07um and then variations of maybe like the
7:37:11Quincy Brown story has different
7:37:12branches of that story correct uh the um
7:37:16Eduardo story has different branches on
7:37:18that story yes the Ganon was playing
7:37:21with a friend and didn't come home are
7:37:23there different branches to that story
7:37:24yes uh and then we get the pregnant
7:37:27woman with a money in her belly story
7:37:30different story right
7:37:33uh why did you tell her you don't think
7:37:36you're a bad person what was the purpose
7:37:37of that
7:37:40it's hard to get someone to talk about
7:37:43something bad if they think the person
7:37:45talking to them already thinks they're
7:37:47bad
7:37:49were you hoping that she would that
7:37:51would maybe loosen her up and she would
7:37:52give you some information
7:37:55well and
7:37:57yeah I I think
7:38:00she did not intend for this whatever the
7:38:03awful thing was that happened to Ganon
7:38:05to happen that's what you were trying to
7:38:07get her to correct believe you were
7:38:09thinking yes okay were you actually
7:38:11thinking that
7:38:12yeah we didn't I didn't know how all
7:38:15this started as far as uh I was only
7:38:18taking my role in this investigation I
7:38:20was not the case agent uh my role was
7:38:23just to speak with Leticia take in as
7:38:25many facts as I could for these
7:38:27interviews and so I was taking in what
7:38:29she was saying and she was putting it
7:38:32back again to me with the foot injury on
7:38:34Saturday and now a head injury on
7:38:37Saturday so we've got a progression of
7:38:39things happening and I was just
7:38:42Gathering from her what I can and
7:38:43passing it on to the investigative team
7:38:45when you said those things
7:38:48um you obviously didn't have gannon's
7:38:50body had not been recovered yet that's
7:38:52correct hadn't heard anything about an
7:38:54autopsy and the number of injuries that
7:38:56he had suffered yes okay
7:38:59do you remember asking her
7:39:01um right after this clip that we just
7:39:03saw about where did you last see Ganon
7:39:06yes
7:39:08why did you want to go down that path
7:39:12and my experience especially if you have
7:39:16a close relationship with someone who
7:39:19has disappeared you are clearly able to
7:39:21articulate the last time that you saw
7:39:23that person and so far in the phone
7:39:25calls with Al and even with my time she
7:39:28has not
7:39:29said what that very last sighting of him
7:39:32was
7:39:34okay we're going to jump to that section
7:39:36now
7:39:37three hours 40 minutes and 59 seconds
7:39:42and we're going to play it through three
7:39:44hours 45 minutes and five seconds
7:39:47your argument isn't going to work with
7:39:49t-shirts
7:39:51your argument that somebody took him
7:39:53you're not going to be able to tell that
7:39:55story
7:39:56okay if you help us today find out where
7:39:59Gannon is if you could because I have
7:40:01100 confidence that you can tell me
7:40:03exactly where you last last game okay
7:40:07now you're accusing me I'm just telling
7:40:09you what the research shows what our
7:40:11investigation showed then listen
7:40:17you
7:40:19know
7:40:20look like I didn't do anything so what
7:40:22do you want me to look better at I
7:40:24didn't do anything to tell me right now
7:40:27right in the place you're talking
7:40:29about sir
7:40:32because you're not trying to help me
7:40:35finding in an alternative oh yeah I know
7:40:38don't you think that then tell me what
7:40:41would you think that don't you you know
7:40:44it you really don't think that so tell
7:40:46me where he is and let me help you I
7:40:47don't know where he is
7:40:51where did you last see him not sir I'm
7:40:54not you proved that you were not going
7:40:56to help me okay you do
7:40:59you proved you were not gonna help him
7:41:01if you tell me where you all saw him I
7:41:03can help you
7:41:06I promise you that Leticia I don't get
7:41:09it then her again
7:41:12I mean I don't know how to like write
7:41:14that out say it in 10 different
7:41:15languages what do you want me to say you
7:41:18didn't hurt Gannon did you kill no
7:41:22no did you put Gannon somewhere no
7:41:25you didn't put him in a dumpster
7:41:29yeah
7:41:31because we've been tracking your car
7:41:33we've been tracking even when your phone
7:41:35is off it can be tracked good sir I'm
7:41:37glad
7:41:38and so we've we've been going through
7:41:40dumpsters all through is scanning in a
7:41:43dumpster sure
7:41:45you can go first please whatever that
7:41:48would save us that would save us
7:41:50hundreds of days
7:41:54that's fine but will you tell me if he's
7:41:57in a dumpster I
7:42:00[Music]
7:42:03yeah
7:42:04answer the question for you really do
7:42:07you compare and ask them that
7:42:11because because we want to find him I
7:42:13would not ask you that question I didn't
7:42:15it wouldn't help us do anything
7:42:18nothing
7:42:21didn't hurt harm killed nothing
7:42:24again
7:42:26did not
7:42:27would not where's the last place you saw
7:42:30me sir
7:42:33but that's an easy question the last
7:42:35place you spoke in which can really help
7:42:37us find any why would you not say that
7:42:39if you had nothing because I've already
7:42:41tried to help you but if you had nothing
7:42:43to do if you did not hurt harm anything
7:42:47why would you not tell me the last place
7:42:48you saw him because it's a Memory you
7:42:51don't want to look at memory yeah I
7:42:53would think it's a Memory okay gannon's
7:42:56been missing now for how many days you
7:42:58know when you last saw him but you won't
7:42:59tell the one agency that can find each
7:43:02you already
7:43:03said
7:43:05you already basically lost my whole
7:43:07ability to story that's worse than
7:43:09Quincy Brown all right okay what about
7:43:11the pregnant lady with the money on her
7:43:13stomach sure okay Leticia
7:43:16um the last place you saw him and we can
7:43:18find Gannon and you can that will help
7:43:22you so much in this case yes it will
7:43:25what do you think is going to help you
7:43:27now if I walk out of here and we haven't
7:43:29got a lead on how to find Ganon all
7:43:33you've got is the story of the stuff on
7:43:35the wall you've got the blood you've got
7:43:37blood all over the house you've got
7:43:39blood on the bottom of your shoes and
7:43:40you've got about seven lies okay if you
7:43:44help us find Gana that will help you
7:43:45tremendously
7:43:47and yet you won't tell me
7:43:49why
7:43:52yes I will I've just
7:43:55so we've got it now paused at the end of
7:43:56that section three hours 45 minutes and
7:43:59five seconds why'd you throw out the
7:44:00dumpster
7:44:02there had been searches and dumpsters
7:44:04and at that point since we had no leads
7:44:08I was hoping maybe she could at least I
7:44:11was being truthful there saying can you
7:44:14at least narrow our world on what we're
7:44:16searching at this point
7:44:18because we didn't have a lead on where
7:44:20Gannon was
7:44:21just and you were just trying to get
7:44:23that from her at that particular Point
7:44:24yes
7:44:26do you remember going from from that
7:44:28discussion into asking her about any
7:44:30mental health issues that she was
7:44:31dealing with
7:44:32yes I believe I asked her a second time
7:44:35after asking her initially right and so
7:44:38that's what we're going to get into next
7:44:39and that's at uh timestamp three hours
7:44:4150 minutes and 20 seconds and it lasts
7:44:44for almost two minutes so it goes to
7:44:46three hours 52 minutes and 18 seconds
7:44:59so I'm starting it at three hours 50
7:45:02minutes and 20 seconds
7:45:04the one
7:45:08you know if I asked you ahead of time if
7:45:10you're having anxiety or depression or
7:45:13stuff like that
7:45:17remember
7:45:18you know any of those things because
7:45:21to be honest with you I think
7:45:27where have you been you said Ganon been
7:45:29seeing counselors have you been seeing
7:45:30counsel portion right about teaching one
7:45:33time or maybe she did it too because she
7:45:36was going to give the emotion to support
7:45:37animals
7:45:40yeah it was the two times on base
7:45:43and we talked about
7:45:45not wanting to be in teaching anymore in
7:45:49all that route stress on the job that
7:45:52was what we talked about you had
7:45:53searched a little bit on this clarified
7:45:55stuff what suicide stuff
7:45:57what about you or was that just random
7:46:00future
7:46:05suicide
7:46:09have you ever thought about suicide
7:46:13who you I was speaking about suicide
7:46:21yeah because I have someone in my family
7:46:24before that I that have said that to me
7:46:26and I've looked up information that's
7:46:27not you
7:46:32thank you and their family go on too you
7:46:36know that you want to look up and be
7:46:38like oh
7:46:39this is going on
7:47:03so
7:47:05so when you're asking her about any
7:47:08mental health issues
7:47:10um did she indicate
7:47:12basically only two times
7:47:14yes and and what was the reason that she
7:47:17was seeing this counselor counseling on
7:47:19the base regarding her teaching I
7:47:21believe okay
7:47:23when you left the room here
7:47:25um what were you doing
7:47:28uh I believe she asked if she want if
7:47:31she could make a phone call and plus
7:47:32someone to check with our team so I
7:47:34wanted to see
7:47:35you know what was going on with them
7:47:37okay when you came back in the room did
7:47:40you start to ask her about uh the board
7:47:42that was found with blood on it yes okay
7:47:44we're gonna jump to that
7:47:54so we're at 355 in zero seconds
7:47:57um that period of time in between so
7:48:00when we stopped at 350 218 until when
7:48:03you're about to come back in the room at
7:48:053 55 and zero seconds uh was she just in
7:48:08the room by herself
7:48:09yes was she acting normal yes any
7:48:13concerning behavior from her no okay
7:48:16we're going to start started at 3 55 and
7:48:19go through
7:48:20uh four hours six minutes and 11 seconds
7:48:22so a little over 11 minutes
7:48:26thank you
7:48:31some point we'll ask you how many steps
7:48:33it takes to get back and forth
7:50:53foreign
7:51:10[Music]
7:51:37um
7:51:41I mean because she stayed there I mean
7:51:43I'm saying like they're not in trouble
7:52:02thank you
7:52:04and whether you did this or not it
7:52:08doesn't matter
7:52:09the reason they asked me is because
7:52:12find what happened again
7:52:15and if I can't get past
7:52:17now if I can't prove the story whether
7:52:19you tell them to me I'll tell them to me
7:52:21whether it El Paso Sheriff's Office I
7:52:24don't take anything it's true and so I
7:52:27can prove it
7:52:31without the evidence that they have the
7:52:34reason why it took so long if the
7:52:36district attorney wanted to wait and
7:52:38wait and wait till they made sure they
7:52:40could win
7:52:42and I've done nobody homified before
7:52:46they have more on this case than we do
7:52:48on most people
7:52:51I don't want you to be the the way you
7:52:54can help yourself out of this thing
7:52:57will give us even though it's very easy
7:53:01why do you need to keep asking me
7:53:03because
7:53:09our goal is to find Canada as old as not
7:53:12to prosecute you that is the District
7:53:14Attorney's job we're investigators
7:53:17and like you like you've just seen I do
7:53:19a poor job about half the time because I
7:53:21have to get because as much as we try to
7:53:23track you it's your bars and your phones
7:53:27and whatever else there are gaps
7:53:30we do have like I told you the blood in
7:53:32the house we do have the blood and
7:53:35we have do you know about the board that
7:53:38was grown in the forest
7:53:43the future
7:53:50[Music]
7:53:52all right so what you got your DNA on it
7:53:55okay
7:53:56but then how do you explain stuff like
7:53:58that and then turn around and play but
7:54:00then turn around and say I don't know
7:54:02how
7:54:04with Dan and I was Dana's main caretaker
7:54:08I wouldn't be surprised
7:54:11of everything I done didn't involved in
7:54:15whatever
7:54:18[Music]
7:54:22was in the house and then it's up all by
7:54:25Highway 105.
7:54:26I've already explained to you about any
7:54:29kind of stuff that would have been from
7:54:30the foot I've already told you that and
7:54:33I don't know what you
7:54:36okay so now if there's someone threw it
7:54:38up there
7:54:39so now someone threw it that's right or
7:54:41whatever how did that board get up there
7:54:45now you're going on about it and Albert
7:54:48already called about this board you were
7:54:50there right and the thoughts and all
7:54:53this stuff right shock had nothing to do
7:54:55with it okay but yeah he said it's on
7:54:57but he did say it though right but the
7:54:59board is true
7:55:01sir the board was right where your teeth
7:55:03went wrong
7:55:04pink line yeah
7:55:07yeah because we tracked it I you've got
7:55:10no back from me so you just log into the
7:55:13app it's not a difficult thing
7:55:15like right but if you track somebody and
7:55:19you look at where that is
7:55:22so this is why it's so like
7:55:26backwards so now I might take long but I
7:55:29was driving to talk and then on my big
7:55:32one and now I mean next and you tried on
7:55:34the rental car but then
7:55:36no you had three different cars improved
7:55:39for the rental car and I didn't even get
7:55:40to drive it
7:55:41so there's low mileage
7:55:44but we don't know where you went because
7:55:46you had your phone
7:55:52somewhere isn't it
7:55:54if you guys ever watch is that El Paso
7:55:57Detention Center
7:55:59that's the watch there I thought you had
7:56:01an eye watch that is that's where the
7:56:03watch was at
7:56:10the county
7:56:13but your phone was off a couple of days
7:56:17for 20
7:56:18that month it was off when you were
7:56:21between the Petcos
7:56:24but I have my watch on
7:56:26right like what I'm saying watch tells
7:56:28you where you go I mean yeah it's
7:56:31mirrored
7:56:32yeah but I'm telling you we have holes
7:56:35in our investigation and you can help us
7:56:38with that all right
7:56:44my car anywhere really other than
7:56:47just going to meet friends
7:56:50yeah other than to be friends yeah so
7:56:53who who
7:56:56that can be a lead we can help find
7:56:58Gannon with
7:56:59you you guys already know all my friends
7:57:01so maybe we don't know those up there
7:57:03that should be the ones that you you
7:57:05really know we don't know the ones I
7:57:07guarantee you and like the guy said oh
7:57:10tire pressure and all this then you
7:57:12would have saw her if I stopped anywhere
7:57:14or done whatever
7:57:16can't you tell me
7:57:22everything
7:57:23from otherwise you have everything I
7:57:25don't have for you what friends you saw
7:57:27up there on 105 for that boardroom
7:57:30look I'm not going to admit to any kind
7:57:32of work I'm not saying you need to I'm
7:57:34just saying tell me who your friends are
7:57:36up there and we can go talk and my pig
7:57:38line wasn't even driven that way until
7:57:40so maybe it was the I don't know later
7:57:44how much later I don't even know
7:57:46before before they took it all right so
7:57:49was the truck up there
7:57:51talk about where I've got 105 area
7:58:05because I don't know I really don't know
7:58:08that's okay you're asking me a question
7:58:10that I really don't know that we've had
7:58:12before the chair where you were driving
7:58:14okay with Canon spot on it okay with
7:58:16your DNA on it okay so my DNA which
7:58:20would be one skin okay my skin cells
7:58:23which I lived in the home accessories
7:58:24yeah
7:58:26and I've already told you that there was
7:58:29all this word in the garage yeah but you
7:58:32never told me that you took a piece out
7:58:34of the truck and flung it up there
7:58:37but it just flung it and again a t-shirt
7:58:40I think you get mad when I say a verb or
7:58:43something whether you placed it flung it
7:58:45dropped it
7:58:46hit it I don't know but all I know is
7:58:49that our FBI evidence Response Team
7:58:51recovered it okay
7:58:54did you check everybody out to now
7:58:57as far as for their DNA no not the DNA
7:58:59to see if they put it there because
7:59:00remember these are the people that were
7:59:02in the house
7:59:03when I was in Oz when I was a man did
7:59:06you check all then
7:59:07the people in the house yeah did you
7:59:09check the people in the house you mean
7:59:11the crime scene people no I mean the
7:59:13people that you I'm sorry that because
7:59:16you don't like that allowed to stay
7:59:18there when all this stuff you're talking
7:59:21about would have been there okay correct
7:59:24did you check all these people as far as
7:59:26their DNA no did you check to see if any
7:59:29of them did this drove them through that
7:59:31wood up there did you check them
7:59:34their GPS their phone no no no no no did
7:59:37you check them because that is complete
7:59:40doesn't matter you say you need
7:59:42something you check Veronica's GPS and
7:59:43her phone
7:59:47judge that's uh now pause that four
7:59:49hours six minutes and 11 seconds and
7:59:51it's 4 49. is this a good place for a
7:59:53break it is okay
7:59:54all right all right ladies and gentlemen
7:59:56we will have our uh weekend break sorry
8:00:00um we will have our weekend easy for me
8:00:03to say we will have our weekend break uh
8:00:06again you must not communicate with
8:00:08others or among yourselves about the
8:00:10trial as it is going on you must not do
8:00:12any independent investigation or
8:00:14research about the case you must not
8:00:16discuss the case among yourselves in any
8:00:18way during the course of the trial you
8:00:21may not discuss the case among
8:00:22yourselves until after you have heard
8:00:24all of the evidence and you begin to
8:00:25liberate on a verdict that'll be after
8:00:27the closing and instructions and all of
8:00:28that
8:00:29In fairness you must keep an open mind
8:00:31throughout the trial and you should
8:00:33reach your decision only during your
8:00:35deliberations at the end of the trial do
8:00:37not permit anyone else to discuss the
8:00:39case with you or near you if anyone in
8:00:41including one of your fellow jurors
8:00:43attempts to do so report that fact
8:00:45immediately
8:00:46do not talk with any Witnesses or with a
8:00:49defendant or with the attorneys in the
8:00:51case you cannot talk to them and they
8:00:53cannot talk to you even casually
8:00:55you are permitted however to explain to
8:00:58family friends and employers that you
8:00:59are on a jury and inform them of how
8:01:01long the trial will last you cannot say
8:01:03anything else about any aspect of your
8:01:05experience until you are released from
8:01:07jury service
8:01:08do not communicate about the case with
8:01:11anyone else in any way including in
8:01:13person by telephone cell phone computer
8:01:15the internet or any internet service
8:01:17this means you must not email text
8:01:20instant message tweet blog or post any
8:01:23information about this case or about
8:01:26your experience as a juror on this case
8:01:28on any website listserver chat room
8:01:30blocker website
8:01:32you must not read review or accept any
8:01:36Communications in any form from anyone
8:01:38regarding this case or cases like this
8:01:41this applies whether you are here at
8:01:44home or anyone or anywhere else do not
8:01:47read about this case in the newspapers
8:01:49or on the Internet or listen to any
8:01:52radio or television broadcast about the
8:01:54trial the law even prohibits you from
8:01:57Consulting a dictionary to clarify terms
8:01:59that may be used in this case
8:02:02um with that have a good weekend uh
8:02:05enjoy the weekend I don't think it's
8:02:06going to be as nice as it was last
8:02:08weekend uh but it's Colorado just just
8:02:10love it embrace it so uh we'll see you
8:02:13on Monday morning uh nine o'clock all
8:02:15rise for the jury please
8:02:52thank you may all be seated record
8:02:54should reflect the jury has left the
8:02:56courtroom
8:02:58um
8:03:00let's go through the witness or I'm
8:03:03sorry the exhibit list
8:03:04um for a moment
8:03:07I have exhibits one
8:03:11through 43
8:03:15nope nope sorry one through yeah that's
8:03:18right one through 43
8:03:2246
8:03:32through 103
8:03:36105.
8:03:53through 198
8:03:57201 through 211
8:04:03220
8:04:09one
8:04:13I'm sorry 206 was no 206 was it is in
8:04:19it was introduced through Mr Stout and
8:04:23then was uh brought in through actually
8:04:26Harley hunt I think
8:04:32um so let's go let's see
8:04:34um 206 to 211
8:04:38um 220
8:04:41222 through 224
8:04:46226 27 28
8:04:51230 through 237
8:04:55239
8:05:10maybe what we should do and the easier
8:05:11way to do this might be I can show you
8:05:13what I have because it's what is it 40
8:05:16pages 50 pages sorry 49. I can show you
8:05:21what I have you guys can take a look at
8:05:23it see where you agree or disagree
8:05:27um and we also have defendants exhibit a
8:05:29that's the only exhibit I have so far
8:05:32from defense does that sound right right
8:05:34okay
8:05:35um
8:05:36and then so you can take a look at what
8:05:39it is that I have who it is that I
8:05:41admitted it through
8:05:43um because I tried to take accurate
8:05:46notes on that
8:05:48um and then
8:05:49we'll see where there's a disagreement
8:05:52um
8:05:54is there anything else that we need to
8:05:55take up at this point in time
8:05:56prosecution
8:05:58defense
8:06:01um what does next week look like and I
8:06:04suppose primarily when are we
8:06:05anticipating Dr Gray's testimony
8:06:11obviously it's going to depend on
8:06:13Witnesses ahead of that but
8:06:19I didn't know if he was if you were
8:06:21going to try and sandwich him in
8:06:22somewhere if he was last or what well
8:06:25the debate for us is either Dr Gray or
8:06:27Torres judge um so that'd be one of
8:06:29those two and it's at least as we're
8:06:32tentatively looking at that it'd be
8:06:33Wednesday morning
8:06:34okay
8:06:36we do have uh just so the courts where
8:06:39we do have some witnesses that are going
8:06:40to be flying in from the East Coast
8:06:42three of them as a matter of fact in
8:06:45that's going to require some uh
8:06:48massaging of our presentation of these
8:06:50Witnesses and we've also got a witness
8:06:53flying in from Hawaii as well so that's
8:06:55our agreement okay well we will work
8:06:57around whatever it is that we need to
8:06:59work around I was just trying to get
8:07:01some idea then okay
8:07:04all right well we'll see everybody on
8:07:06Monday morning then okay thank you
8:07:08quarter being recess
8:07:18Mike chick
8:07:21my chick
8:07:23you guys are going to get used to me say
8:07:26mic check are we good why am I Robot G
8:07:29okay
8:07:30um
8:07:32I won't go I went on this too long
8:07:36I just wrote oh my word when she says I
8:07:39didn't do anything to Gannon I didn't do
8:07:40anything to gain and I didn't do it well
8:07:42that's a weird way to answer questions
8:07:45yep you're sounding just yeah like a
8:07:48true crime case right there I mean
8:07:49really that's just classic
8:07:51also she made up a threesome and
8:07:53somebody called angel
8:07:55what
8:07:57so there's
8:07:58um
8:07:59the Craigslist guy
8:08:01who became iguardo
8:08:04Uncle Matt Quincy Brown
8:08:07then there's a threesome situation with
8:08:09someone called angel
8:08:11then is the pregnant lady with a cash
8:08:12belly she's not really pregnant she
8:08:14looks really really pregnant but it's
8:08:16cash in her belly
8:08:18oh my word no no no
8:08:21um so I'm not gonna have a long debris
8:08:23for the members only stream I could just
8:08:25see
8:08:26um and I cannot every time that you guys
8:08:28are like please please I can't I can't
8:08:29every time because it's really late for
8:08:30me it's already one o'clock in the
8:08:32morning but we can have a quick debrief
8:08:34today it's Friday
8:08:36um quick debrief then I've got to do
8:08:38time stamps and then I do have to get
8:08:39some sleep okay because despite
8:08:41everybody thinking I never sleep I do
8:08:44I need it so she says she it's what
8:08:48scares her is that the research you know
8:08:50that they're doing you would have found
8:08:52this if you had the resources that's so
8:08:54weird like what she said right yeah
8:08:56there was also a Veronica who the heck
8:08:57was Veronica and then she also said
8:08:59something about
8:09:00Didi or something oh no I don't know
8:09:04um
8:09:04she talked about having a SIM card in
8:09:06her phone but El Paso had already taken
8:09:08that so that's not possible she said
8:09:11uh okay it was on January 29th when a
8:09:13phone was seized someone in the chat
8:09:16called catnap said this is not a rabbit
8:09:18hole it's more of a rat hole
8:09:21this is a rat hole you guys there's a
8:09:23difference
8:09:24and Ted green said the whole she is
8:09:27digging the whole she's digging herself
8:09:29is a well you know like from The Ring
8:09:32yes um Leticia said that Gannon had a
8:09:35gash on his left temple oh my word so
8:09:38she's trying to describe that and saying
8:09:39it's from pushing the beds together I
8:09:41mean what
8:09:42um and then she said well if someone did
8:09:46something to him in his bedroom then we
8:09:48were all drugged but like do you not
8:09:50remember cleaning the wall though
8:09:52what I mean really it makes no sense
8:09:54welcome welcome to all the new members
8:09:57um she also
8:09:59she says I don't get it
8:10:01now you're accusing me I don't get it I
8:10:03didn't hurt Gannon well she's just been
8:10:06already charged with first degree murder
8:10:07by the time she's sitting there having
8:10:09that interview so I'm like now you're
8:10:10accusing me you're already charged with
8:10:12first degree murder and amazingly a
8:10:15bridge inspector found gannon's body in
8:10:18Florida of the Escambia River Bridge on
8:10:20March 17th Leticia was arrested on March
8:10:242nd they had enough evidence against her
8:10:25that's why we have the probable cause
8:10:27affidavit right
8:10:28um she took they talked for the first
8:10:30time I've heard them say DNA they had
8:10:32DNA on the board and ganon's blood on it
8:10:34and remember she Googled can I spray
8:10:37paint a board or clean the board she
8:10:39said she's always been gannon's main
8:10:41caretaker that really makes me mad
8:10:44and they said the board is where your
8:10:47TIG one was and she's like my my TIG one
8:10:50you forgot we've all done map time yes
8:10:52Leticia your TIG one
8:10:54was there at South Perry Park Road
8:10:57because she turned her phone onto flight
8:10:59mode right so her phone was off okay
8:11:03okay wow all the members are already
8:11:05there she turned she put her phone on
8:11:07flight mode
8:11:09and then she signed into the Wi-Fi of a
8:11:11massage parlor and she went to a
8:11:13Starbucks and every now and then she
8:11:14signed into the Wi-Fi so that could
8:11:15track her movements and they could track
8:11:16where the Tiguan went as well
8:11:18Tammy uh thank you so much for your
8:11:21super sticker so you guys that was that
8:11:23was quite a day I'm sure we're gonna
8:11:25re-watch parts of that right I will
8:11:27timestamp everything for you it's 8 hour
8:11:30and 11 minute Stream So I do wish I
8:11:33could shorten it sometimes you know like
8:11:34cut out that lunch break but
8:11:35unfortunately the way YouTube works you
8:11:37can't you can't edit anything out on
8:11:39these long streams so sorry about that
8:11:41otherwise I would but at timestamp it
8:11:43lunch break starts this whatever we're
8:11:45doing so that you know where you can
8:11:46skip forward to okay so yeah we are
8:11:49going to have a members only debrief
8:11:52um now this stream should lead you there
8:11:54if you're not a member please don't
8:11:56worry please don't worry
8:11:58it's just a snarky debrief that's what
8:12:00we do it's a dollar to become a member
8:12:02and just remember that YouTube takes 50
8:12:05of everything a really great source of
8:12:07support is patreon but this will be a
8:12:09YouTube members only live stream okay
8:12:12wow sweet and salty says I wonder how
8:12:14many relationships she's been in I know
8:12:15right so mods thank you so much really
8:12:18appreciate
8:12:19um everything it's been very long days
8:12:22and and a lot of new Grizzlies lots of
8:12:25new people so thank you so much for all
8:12:27your hard work uh welcome to all the new
8:12:29members as I say and I'll see you guys
8:12:31there at the members only stream
8:12:33uh in the next I did set it for half
8:12:36past one in the morning my time but I'll
8:12:37go live sooner as soon as this ends I'll
8:12:39go live over there okay Rochelle says
8:12:42your energy is beyond reproach because
8:12:44you see the thing is you see the thing
8:12:46is
8:12:47I I do have a lot of stamina and I used
8:12:50to use that for swimming
8:12:52learn for flying because I was a pilot
8:12:54for nine years
8:12:55now I'm here on YouTube for trials this
8:12:57is perfect for me so thank you for
8:12:59watching the trial with me I really
8:13:00appreciate it if you haven't yet hit the
8:13:02like button please do it it helps
8:13:03YouTube know that you actually liked
8:13:05watching this live stream with me today
8:13:06and then it lets other people find it as
8:13:09well
8:13:10so thank you so much and if you could
8:13:11share it as well hashtag canonstrong
8:13:14ganon's Army and hashtag Grizzly True
8:13:17Crime would be helpful too and if you're
8:13:18on Twitter find me over there at True
8:13:20Crime gizzler there's an impersonator or
8:13:23two on Twitter so I'm at True Crime
8:13:24gizzler okay
8:13:26all right so everyone I will see you at
8:13:28the members debrief if you're gonna be
8:13:31there
8:13:32um otherwise I'll see all of you very
8:13:34likely this weekend not sure about
8:13:36tomorrow we might have trial bubbles for
8:13:38real but soon because I want I do want
8:13:40to discuss some Lori Velo stuff I am
8:13:42following along making lots of notes as
8:13:44if my notebook wasn't fully enough of
8:13:45live t-shirts BS
8:13:47my word yes
8:13:51um so yes I will I will see you there
8:13:54all right let's let's play the outro
8:13:55let's hope it doesn't double play either
8:13:57thank you for an enjoyable day even
8:13:59though it's a very Grim topic and we are
8:14:01here for Ganon and we'll be back on
8:14:03Monday and they did say on Wednesday a
8:14:06Dr Gray will be in the house oh I can't
8:14:08wait for doctors to roll in mental
8:14:09health experts bring them on in even if
8:14:11some might make us get snarky that's
8:14:13okay I don't know if they are going to
8:14:14defend what Leticia is going for I'm not
8:14:16sure okay
8:14:18see you then bye
8:14:25[Music]
8:14:35[Music]
8:14:40thank you
8:14:57[Music]
8:15:03[Music]
8:15:06thank you
8:15:07[Music]

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