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New Chris Watts footage - Nicole K interview (Full Video) — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:11[Music]
0:18i just turned to recording okay so again
0:20this is this room is recorded and video
0:22and audio um
0:25we introduced ourselves in the lobbies
0:27and earlier so we're just going to do
0:28that again real quick my name is kevin
0:30kobach i'm with the colorado bureau
0:31investigation
0:32and
0:33we're assisting the frederick police
0:35department with this case involving
0:38chris watts and this is tim martinez
0:41also an agent at cbi
0:43sir if you just introduce yourself
0:45dwayne kessinger i'm not nicole's father
0:47dwayne what's your birthday november 3rd
0:501958. and a home address register 8801
0:54was 65th avenue
0:56let's see that's uh arvada 8004
1:00and a cell phone or a home phone or word
1:03720-982-4547
1:08thank you
1:09and nicole can you just introduce
1:11yourself for the recording nicole
1:12kessinger
1:14do you need all the other stuff yes
1:16please i love it um
1:18one two two five five quad core
1:23unit six twelve
1:26call number 720-656-9605
1:33claude court is that i think we
1:35determined it was north glen right yes
1:37you know yours are good
1:43okay can you speak up just a little bit
1:44so the recorder i know you're tired and
1:46you're stressed
1:48and we won't be here any longer than we
1:50have to be
1:50you've already had a conversation with
1:52people before you came here on your own
1:54free will to talk to us we picked you up
1:57at your request and brought you here
1:59you can get up and leave at any time you
2:01don't have to talk to us if there's a
2:03question you don't want to answer don't
2:05answer it if you don't want to talk
2:06anymore just tell me i want to tell me i
2:09want to leave and
2:10i'm kind of in the way of the door but
2:12you're not being
2:15you're not being
2:16interrogated as a criminal suspect we're
2:18here to understand
2:19uh your relationship with chris and what
2:22you know about chris and his family
2:24and
2:25uh events relating to chris watts um and
2:29do you know ms chris or christopher
2:31i mean that one okay
2:33um so
2:36the phone number that you reached him on
2:37can you tell me what that number was
2:41i think i deleted that out of my phone
2:42too i just like cut him out of my life
2:46it's a 910 number you guys have it
2:50well we gave it to mark
2:53yesterday i i probably have it but just
2:55in case
2:56i don't have it if i recited it to you
2:59would you know it
3:00just the first three numbers
3:03but you know it is a 911 yes that's what
3:05i do know i i mean
3:08north carolina or something north
3:10carolina
3:11okay
3:12so let's just start
3:13with like
3:14a timeline of your
3:16[Music]
3:17um getting to know
3:19chris how you guys met where you met all
3:22those things let's just run and i'm not
3:24going to ask you specific questions as i
3:26think it's necessary i'll let you just
3:27tell me your story i think it's a little
3:29bit easier that way so i just want to
3:31know how you met him where you met him
3:32how long you guys were dating
3:34and those kind of things initially
3:37okay um
3:39i think i met him sometime in june
3:41probably early june it might have been
3:43may i was just talking at work it was
3:46pretty casual
3:47um
3:49and uh he didn't have a wedding ring on
3:52his finger
3:53and every time i talked to him he didn't
3:55tell me that he was in a relationship he
3:57didn't even mention his kids right away
3:59either
4:00um and then one day he told me that he
4:03had two kids
4:04i was like that's pretty cool
4:06and i started telling me about his kids
4:08that sounded like a sarcastic company no
4:10i thought it was kind of cute i was like
4:12oh he's a dad it was like right around
4:14father's day too so whatever that is is
4:17then june
4:18okay so i'm not good with holidays he
4:21told me kids and then it was father's
4:23day shortly after that so that's what i
4:24do now and i was like i know i thought
4:26it was cute and then
4:28he's telling me about him he's pretty
4:29excited about him and then
4:33he mentioned that he did have a
4:35significant other
4:37and then he told me that
4:39those two were in the process of a
4:41separation
4:43did he mention
4:45the children's name or his significant
4:47other's name
4:48um i didn't know his significant other's
4:50name for a while
4:52and then i think he told me his kids
4:54names pretty quick but to be honest with
4:57you on an exact date of when that
4:59happened i don't know
5:01so in may and june
5:04first of all where do you work
5:05i work at anadarko petroleum corporation
5:07i'm contracted to antarctica touring
5:10corporation okay and you work out of an
5:12office setting where
5:14in platteville colorado okay and chris
5:17also works out of that location per se
5:20yes he's in the field but he comes into
5:22the office with his team so you work
5:25what is your job responsibility i do
5:28healthy health safety and environment
5:32okay so you work in the office and you
5:33take care of health safety for anadarko
5:36is an oil and gas company right yes so
5:39you're doing health safety in the office
5:40and chris works in the field yes as a
5:43what kind of job does he do he's an
5:45operator so i don't know like all of his
5:48daily duties but he's a field operator
5:50so he works with like the oil wells
5:53so he goes out and
5:55does work on those whatever yes
5:58that work might be but he comes into the
5:59office frequent in the mornings his team
6:02meets in the mornings they don't they're
6:04not all in there every day some days
6:06some of them are in there some days
6:07other ones are in there but
6:09in the mornings typically from like
6:126 15 to probably seven somewhere around
6:15then and is that where you met chris yes
6:17okay so can you just take us through
6:20kind of a little bit of uh
6:22the early part of how you guys how he
6:25courted you or you courted him i don't
6:26know which one happened
6:28um how you guys got to know each other
6:30um i guess we just started talking he
6:32actually
6:34so part of my job is to manage the gas
6:37monitors that we have so anadarko
6:39requires all of their field personnel to
6:40carry like gas monitor sensors for
6:44toxic gases and it's my job to control
6:46the inventory any issues anything like
6:48that
6:49um we were having some pretty serious
6:52like equipment issues and we had
6:55numerous amounts of people coming in my
6:57office one day and he happened to be one
6:59of them
7:00um
7:02and i'd seen him before like they meet
7:04in the in the lunchroom and that's where
7:06i go put my lunch in the fridge so i'd
7:08seen him but i didn't ever like
7:10talk to him
7:12um so that day we just started talking
7:14and then every time i saw him in the
7:15hallway after that and it was always hit
7:17or miss like it wasn't an everyday thing
7:19it was just when i saw him we just
7:20started talking and we just kind of had
7:23a lot in common and just hit it off so
7:24we'd always have you know pretty good
7:26conversations and then
7:28i don't know one day he just he he told
7:31me that he had kids and started talking
7:32about his kids and then mentioned yes
7:35that i have a wife but
7:38we're getting separated okay
7:40when do you think that was
7:42when he said all that so specifically
7:44when he told you he was getting
7:45separated from his wife
7:47was that within the first couple weeks
7:50that you knew him or
7:51was that later on you said you met him
7:53around may or june
7:55yeah it was still in june okay it would
7:57have been before father's day so did you
7:59guys ever going out on any kind of no
8:02date at that time you just no no no no
8:03conversing at work yeah that's all it
8:05was
8:06and then um
8:09i don't know we started hanging out we
8:11hung out we went to went to a park
8:14hung out at a park let's go back real
8:16quick so he took why did he tell you
8:18that he was getting a divorce did he ask
8:19you out at that time no he didn't i
8:22think he was probably interested in me
8:25and so um
8:27he talked to me a couple times uh via
8:30his work phone and i was like
8:32uh
8:33no like it was still very like friendly
8:36conversation but then when i realized
8:38like this man is interested in me
8:40i'm interested in him this is personal
8:42so we got away from the anadarko thing
8:45because i really don't want those guys
8:47affiliated with any of this and so you
8:49have a work phone that specifically no i
8:52have one phone that i do both on he has
8:55two phones okay so he had your phone the
8:58seven two zero six five that's the only
9:00number that i roll with all the time
9:02okay
9:03so he has two phones
9:05one of those owned by anadarko and one
9:07personal yes do you know what his
9:08anadarko phone number was
9:10okay it's been so long and i mean i'm
9:12sure i could like look it up but i tried
9:14to look it up for those guys yesterday
9:15and i couldn't find it okay
9:17we can find it that's okay just
9:19wondering if you knew it
9:20um but at that point we just like took
9:24it to his phone because i just felt it
9:26was like better that way
9:28um and we just continued to talk and
9:30then um
9:31let me go back to the park where's the
9:33park it's like down the street from my
9:35house it's called eastlake number three
9:38you're your house in northland yes and
9:40that was in the june time frame
9:43yeah well like the beginning of july it
9:45was like right around my birthday it's
9:47like so sometime at the very end of june
9:49or the beginning of july okay
9:51and that's the first meeting you had
9:53outside of work
9:58basic conversation for a first date
10:01i mean we kept it pretty simple i guess
10:04you know um i don't even remember
10:06everything we talked about there for a
10:08few hours
10:09um
10:10but
10:11understand my so if if i ask about
10:14conversation what i'm looking for was he
10:16talking about his family
10:18during any of these meetings those are
10:20the kind of
10:21i understand uh every
10:23you know whatever you guys were talking
10:25about relationship your life your
10:27interests those things that we don't
10:28need to know that what i'm interested in
10:30is knowing is when he brings up his
10:32children when he brings up his wife when
10:35he brings up
10:37financial information when he brings up
10:39his home when he brings up anything that
10:42may have been
10:43and and it's been a few days so you've
10:45had a chance to reflect on
10:48some articles that you may have read and
10:49you know unfortunately that you're in a
10:53situation where somebody has been
10:55murdered
10:56and
10:57that information when you look backwards
11:00in your memory with the conversations
11:02with chris anything that he might have
11:04said that would be relative to
11:07that and i'm not just you know even if
11:09he one day he was mad and he said i want
11:11to do this or do that
11:13you know anything like that if he ever
11:14made any kind of statements that you
11:16were like whoa that was weird um or why
11:18would he say that or why did he mention
11:20that do you understand what i'm i'm not
11:21i completely understand i just feel like
11:23some of this happened so long ago that i
11:26can't tell you like the exact words of
11:30the exact conversation at the exact time
11:32and place because it's like we had a lot
11:34of conversations i mean we talked every
11:36single day so
11:38like i'm trying to help you guys with
11:40the stuff like the stuff that's more
11:42current i can give you guys a lot more
11:43like detail and exact times when you're
11:46asking me about something that happened
11:47six weeks ago and exactly what was said
11:49it's like i mean i'm sure i can give you
11:51a general idea but to be honest with you
11:53like to pinpoint exact words it's not
11:55going to happen i'm not looking for
11:57exact words
11:59just more
12:01let's say six weeks ago he said
12:02something that
12:04triggered with you last night
12:07that's what i'd be looking for or
12:08something four weeks ago and if you
12:10don't remember where it was
12:11or
12:12the specific words that doesn't matter
12:14just he said something that was off the
12:16wall or he said this or he said that
12:18that has caused you a moment to pause
12:20and you go wow i wonder why you said
12:22that now knowing what you know today
12:24do you understand where i'm going with
12:26that i completely understand and to be
12:28honest with you i mean there were
12:29several discussions that we had about
12:31his current
12:33relationship and where it had gone and
12:35what it had caused
12:37and he talked about his kids from time
12:39to time but the thing was is he was
12:41never
12:42hostile it was never anything aggressive
12:45like even when he spoke of his wife and
12:47the fact that they were separating it
12:49was never like
12:51ill it was it was very
12:53it was still very kind it was just like
12:55this is not working
12:56you know and would explain why but it
12:58wasn't anything
13:00out of the ordinary or anything that i
13:02think would scare me and to this day
13:04even after everything that i found out
13:07i still look back at that and i don't
13:09see any red lights with
13:12the way that he spoke of his family
13:16can you just describe his overall
13:18demeanor over the eight
13:20ten twelve weeks that you guys knew each
13:22other it wasn't that long it was like
13:24six weeks
13:26i guess we knew each other longer okay
13:27but you met him in the office and just
13:30his overall persona who was was he
13:34aggressive was he mellow was he calm was
13:36he outspoken
13:38who was chris he i you know i think he's
13:41an introvert i would consider him to be
13:43like a pretty
13:45i don't want to say he's a very reserved
13:47individual i think he's probably more
13:49reserved around other people i think he
13:52emphasized to me that one of the reasons
13:54that he really enjoyed talking to me is
13:56because if he felt like he could get out
13:58of his shell
14:00he said around most people he just like
14:02didn't really feel the
14:04need to to like talk and converse and it
14:07wasn't just in his home life just in
14:09general it wasn't something where he
14:11he's an introvert and he said with him
14:14with me it made him feel like he could
14:16really just start talking about things
14:18that excited him and i think a lot of
14:20that had to do with the fact that we had
14:22things in common
14:23um
14:25so with me i think he was a little bit
14:27more outgoing but even then i would
14:29still consider him to be an introvert
14:32not on the extreme end if an introvert
14:35went to like one to ten i'd put him at
14:37like a four or five so on the lighter
14:40side of introvert pretty even
14:42yes like really relaxed like all time he
14:45was never really like worked up about
14:46anything just
14:49mellow chill easy going guy very much
14:51okay
14:53and he was that way with you did you
14:54ever did he ever have any kind of uh did
14:57you guys ever have arguments i mean
14:59pretty short relationship
15:01no arguments during that time did he
15:03ever lose his temper at any time
15:05you guys never had a yelling match no
15:08so you never saw him upset or mad no and
15:11there was a couple times that we had
15:12some disagreements on things that as we
15:14like further progress into this story
15:16you know but it was never like i am very
15:18calm when i talk to people it's like
15:20extremely rational when i handle
15:22situations that there's a disagreement
15:24in and he always was the exact same way
15:27like always like i never
15:29stressed anything i think one thing that
15:31actually kind of drew me to him was the
15:33fact that he was like very open with
15:34communicating with me if there were any
15:36like differences on how we saw things or
15:39or just like open-minded about things it
15:42was it was actually i i personally
15:44thought it was kind of unique because
15:45usually
15:46most of the men that i've ever met are
15:48typically very closed off and i didn't
15:50get that from him
15:51at all but it was always like kind very
15:54kind so
15:56no
15:57sense that this guy had a temper or not
16:00it wasn't was aggressive or he never
16:03lost his
16:05mind and yelled and said crazy stuff or
16:07anything like that okay
16:10so can we just kind of go back to your
16:11relationship you say you guys had a lot
16:13in common what what was that well i mean
16:16like we're both really into fitness i
16:18think that's important it's a lifestyle
16:20um both of us ate pretty healthy so i
16:22think that was important as well
16:24um
16:25he's like a total gearhead he likes cars
16:28a lot and i don't know nearly as much
16:29about them but it's always been
16:31something that i've been
16:32pretty interested in so we definitely
16:34talk about stuff like that um
16:37and i i guess he was always willing to
16:40like learn new stuff and vice versa like
16:42i like to travel a lot it's not
16:43something that he's done a lot but he
16:44seemed like really interested in
16:46what i had to share with him and vice
16:48versa so even if it wasn't something
16:50that we originally had in common
16:51together it was just like hey i respect
16:53what you have to say and vice versa
16:56so you guys just
16:58ying and yang you got along pretty well
17:00very well
17:02and
17:03no time
17:04he never gave me an indication that
17:07that he was
17:09having issues um
17:12so you when during your guys dating time
17:15did you guys spend most of the time at
17:16your place always
17:18okay always at your place i told well or
17:21we'd go out but um
17:24i told mark yesterday he asked me if i
17:26went over there and i told him about one
17:28time that i went over that house i've
17:29been to that house twice but it was very
17:31very brief and it was not like an
17:33extended stay i did not
17:35feel comfortable there or like
17:37i just didn't want to be there it's not
17:39my life like that is somebody else's
17:41life and somebody else's existence and i
17:43respect that that's their space and so i
17:45used to tell him well come to my house
17:47because this is
17:48like this is our space this is my space
17:51and so for me out of respect just for
17:53like whatever situation he had going on
17:55and the fact that it's not my home um i
17:58felt that it was better to to be in my
18:00place and i live alone i don't have any
18:01roommates or anything so it's pretty
18:03easy to do that
18:04so during june and july did you were you
18:06aware that he
18:08uh
18:09his family was not his did you meet his
18:11children nope during june of july and he
18:13didn't ask me to okay i mean not that i
18:16didn't want to ever it was just
18:18not now it's like you're not
18:20finalized with your separation
18:23and not only that we've barely been
18:25dating like
18:27you can't introduce kids to somebody new
18:29in a situation like that that's
18:31something that takes time i mean would i
18:34have liked to have met them of course
18:36they you know i mean that would have
18:38been
18:38a great honor for me to have somebody
18:41introduce their children into my life
18:42you know and and but not that it was
18:45something that it was like okay well
18:47let's see we're in six months let's see
18:48wherever in a year and if we're still
18:49doing this and you and me are still you
18:51know
18:52happy with where we're at and you think
18:54that this is something that is going to
18:56be long term and is worth bringing your
18:58children into the picture then yes i
19:00would love to meet them but it's like
19:01not right now you are still in this
19:04situation where you're not even
19:05completely out of it and i'm getting in
19:08it and that's not fair for them and that
19:10was kind of the policy that i had with
19:12him was it was just like yes but not yet
19:15so did he ask to introduce you to his
19:17children not at that time i think both
19:19him and i were
19:20on the same page of
19:23eventually if things
19:25went
19:26as they should i understand you guys
19:28relationship is very new and young yeah
19:31so
19:33although
19:34it was short i just laying everything
19:37out helps us understand what actually
19:39was going on with him and some we may i
19:42might ask you a question you're going
19:43why the heck would you ask me that
19:45probably because i have information that
19:46i'm not willing to share with you and
19:48i'll tell you that right now i'm not
19:49going to tell you some questions i'm
19:50going to ask you what the heck i won't
19:52share some information with you just it
19:54protects you it protects our
19:56investigation so if it seems weird
19:57there's a reason i'm asking it and it's
19:59usually relative to what i know
20:02so don't don't take offense to it again
20:04it's just part of what we need to know
20:07um understood
20:08so
20:09just you went to his house on two
20:11occasions
20:12was that recent no that was like pretty
20:15early into it and i did not like it and
20:17did not want to go back do you recall
20:19where the house was
20:21yeah it's like right off the highway in
20:22frederick okay
20:24and you know the streets i mean i'm sure
20:26i could figure it out again if i like
20:29really had to like off top of my head no
20:31do you know the street name
20:33no i would have to like drive around in
20:35there to get there okay um did it look
20:38like anybody else lived at that house at
20:39that time oh definitely okay i mean does
20:42that freak you out
20:43i mean he told me that he was living in
20:46the basement um and he said we're
20:48separated but we're not divorced
20:50and
20:51we're going to get ready to sell the
20:53house and that was the impression that i
20:54was under and i was under the impression
20:56that they were taking everything pretty
20:57slow with this with like getting ready
20:58to sell the house i mean those are big
21:00things
21:01so that's what i was informed and i mean
21:02if you think about it this whole thing
21:04happened in a six week stretch like it's
21:06not really that much of a time frame so
21:09in that sense like
21:12it's believable to me
21:14um
21:15yes i went i went to the house and um
21:18the first time i was there
21:20um
21:22i
21:23hung out in their like front living room
21:25i just sat on the floor and it was on
21:27the fourth of july was the morning of
21:28the fourth and i was helping him
21:31uh to set up
21:33my fitness pal app and like track his
21:36food his calories and stuff because he
21:37does pretty good with the working out
21:39and stuff and he asked me he's like can
21:40you help me just like get this dialed in
21:42it's like yeah i can do that so that he
21:45invited me up to the house and i was
21:46already kind of hesitant to do it
21:47because i was like there are other
21:48people that live here and i just felt
21:50like it was an amazing space
21:52and so i went up there and we just
21:54stayed in that front room and i helped
21:56him out with that um
21:58and got him all set up with that and
22:00then uh
22:02oh he asked me if i wanted lunch and he
22:04grilled chicken and carrots chicken and
22:06carrots and then that's all he had and i
22:08was like okay so we uh so we ate and
22:11then i left
22:13and then there was another day
22:16about
22:17i can give you the day to fish
22:22i think it was the weekend after my
22:24birthday
22:27uh just a thing on the
22:29courtesy for the
22:30phone for
22:31what was that guy's name dawn
22:34this gentleman
22:35third pe i just met him today
22:38do you want to do the phone forgot about
22:40that for tpd
22:42it's not for them they're doing it for
22:44us yes we just didn't we don't have the
22:45equipment with us to do it and i asked
22:47them to do it for us they're not
22:49involved in this investigation he would
22:51just be a
22:53computer person he would not be looking
22:55at any of this stuff that
22:57would fall to myself
22:58so
22:59keep that in mind he's not involved in
23:01this investigation thornton pd has
23:03nothing to do with this
23:04other than letting us use their facility
23:06and
23:07helping us with some electronic download
23:09he's not going to look at your phone
23:11right now he's going to put it on a disk
23:13and they're going to give it to me
23:18i really want to help you guys i do i
23:20feel like um this whole thing is just
23:23gonna be crazy regardless of whether i
23:25give you my phone or not i mean that's
23:27kind of how i look at it
23:29like it's happening
23:31it's gonna happen well the text
23:33reiterates what you've been saying all
23:34along so it's not like well they do
23:36that's the other thing too i mean that's
23:38kind of a good backup yeah i think you
23:41hit the nail right on the head there's
23:43reasons why we want everything
23:45um it validates things that we know
23:49i'm not gonna come out tell you that
23:51i
23:52if you tell me something today we'll
23:53validate it with your text messages
23:55whether it's the ones we have now or the
23:57ones you're going to give us certainly
23:59if you want to go get him i want you to
24:01read this
24:02is what i want you to do before you
24:04decide that okay
24:06so the second time i went to that house
24:08i'm not sure what day it was but it was
24:10the weekend of the
24:1214th
24:15um of august july
24:20i don't know if it was 14 to the 15th
24:23um one of those two days but we had went
24:25out and we stopped there just real quick
24:27on the way back
24:29and we were there not very long but that
24:32time i saw a picture
24:34of
24:35his wife and one of his kids and i
24:37remember thinking myself like wow she's
24:39so beautiful and i like took a step back
24:42and i was just like
24:44this man
24:45has a gorgeous house he has beautiful
24:48babies he has a beautiful wife he has an
24:50awesome job like
24:53why would he want to lead this and i
24:56remember
24:58talking to him about it and that was the
24:59first time that i tried to actually say
25:03what do you think about not separating
25:04from your wife like what if you really
25:06try to work on this and he had expressed
25:08to me that we've tried to work on this
25:11and it's not working so that is why
25:13we're separating
25:15and i spent some time like just you know
25:18kind of because it almost made me feel
25:20bad where i was like to the point where
25:25i'm engaging in a relationship with a
25:26man who
25:29the way he described it is
25:31in a contractual agreement but was not
25:33in like an emotional relationship with
25:35somebody
25:37um
25:38and for me the way i would have
25:40preferred to do this is to avoid it till
25:42that contractual agreement was also
25:44done and he was done and he
25:47could have approached me and said i'm
25:49just
25:50had a divorce you know
25:53maybe we could take this slow what do
25:54you think but instead it was oh we're
25:56separated and we're working on a divorce
25:59and
26:01that is the part that
26:04i feel bad about because
26:06i should have waited on that and i
26:08didn't and you know i was just like well
26:11they're already there
26:12so you know but then being in a house
26:15was just like why
26:17fix this find a way to fix this make it
26:19work you know and and i would i would i
26:21was like trying to push him to do it and
26:23he seemed pretty reluctant to do it he
26:26didn't want to
26:28and
26:30i don't know we were still seeing each
26:31other fairly frequently but
26:34i kind of like
26:36backed away so we weren't hanging out
26:37quite as much and we were so close but
26:40it was just like i really wanted him to
26:42try like i wanted to know that he tried
26:44and it didn't work
26:46and then he
26:48moved on not
26:54not that
26:55you know
26:56they both kind of tried and then
26:59he got himself into a situation with
27:01somebody else and i don't know
27:04i just thought he had a beautiful life
27:05going on and he could have made it work
27:07that was the way i looked at it from the
27:09outside so is this something you
27:11reflected on since this event or was
27:13this
27:14you no i was doing it then like you said
27:16this this doesn't look right he's kind
27:18of um i don't want to be responsible for
27:20breaking up a marriage especially with
27:22two children is that kind of just i'm
27:24getting here i didn't think it didn't
27:26look right i mean i i think he was
27:28legitimately sleeping in the basement
27:30and i don't i didn't think that these
27:32two were i mean i think it was like hey
27:35we're both stuck in this house for now
27:36we got to sell this in the meantime you
27:39live here i live here we sleep in
27:40different rooms take care of the kids
27:42that's just like kind of how i took that
27:45and um no i didn't think it didn't look
27:48right i just thought
27:49it just seemed like he had so much going
27:52on
27:53and it was just beautiful that i was
27:55like why don't you just try this out you
27:57know and see if you can fix it and he'd
27:59always be like well what about us what
28:00about us i'm like don't worry about us
28:02like that is more important like try to
28:04see if you can like salvage whatever it
28:06is that you have going on with your wife
28:08and and you know
28:09i always got the impression that he was
28:11a great father to his kids like always
28:13and so you know i was like and be the
28:15dad that you want to be i was looking to
28:17see if you can make it work and he just
28:19like we kind of talked about it off and
28:21on for like a few weeks and i was just
28:23kind of like i don't know like i think i
28:26was kind of like cold feet and about it
28:28when i went after i went over his house
28:29and so this was like pretty early on
28:32and then um
28:34he told me that oh he went to um
28:39he went to north carolina
28:42and he was like
28:44i'm gonna talk to her when i'm in north
28:46carolina and see if i can get her
28:49to do this to like try to like
28:52rekindle the flame okay so try to
28:57salvage his relationship as you've been
28:59asking him yes and and then if he didn't
29:01go to north carolina um i think it was
29:04like
29:05the last week of july somewhere around
29:07there okay so i mean this was like a
29:09couple weeks that i was just kind of
29:11like trump push him let's pause at north
29:13carolina and we'll come back to that
29:15real quick i want you to read this if
29:17you don't understand what it means then
29:19ask me the question but basically what
29:21it says is you have the right not to let
29:23me look at your phone i'm asking to look
29:25at your phone for the purposes we
29:27previously discussed for the text
29:28messages and your phone log
29:31and unfortunately the photos that are
29:33attached they're in too
29:34that information is only
29:36relative to this investigation i'm not
29:38looking at anything else except for the
29:40conversations between you
29:42and chris watts
29:44and the phone
29:46data between you and chris watts for
29:47phone calls for times and dates for
29:49those phone calls
29:52and then the content of the text
29:53messages that that are there and we can
29:56we'll write that specifically down here
29:58understand it i don't want anybody to
30:00get some of those texts like they have
30:02nothing to do with this case and they're
30:04just like between you and chris yes
30:06they're just
30:07they're just
30:08so just tell me what you're they're just
30:10kind of raunchy like i don't need
30:12anybody everybody's an adult
30:14posted like we're not going to sell them
30:18i don't need that i don't want any more
30:19of these papers to get that that's all i
30:20want the only ones that we would be
30:22looking for again is the same kind of
30:24questions we're getting to here is
30:27things about his children things about
30:29his wife that is the questioning of did
30:32he ever you know has he ever said
30:34something to you that might indicate
30:36maybe not then but now that there was
30:39something like this in his mind or
30:41you you know what we're looking for i
30:43don't need to come out and tell you that
30:45i understand the embarrassment of
30:47particular photos or potential
30:50um sexual types of conversations you may
30:53have had with chris
30:55uh it's it's not relative to the
30:57investigation we don't care okay you're
31:00an adult i'm an adult everybody in this
31:02room is even your dad and i give it to
31:04you for saying that stuff in front of
31:05your dad because i'm not sure many women
31:07could do that um so that's not what
31:10we're after we're after the the
31:12information that cooperates things that
31:15you've told us and also that cooperates
31:18or
31:20may
31:21tend to prove that things that chris
31:23told us were a lie
31:24you understand that um and that's maybe
31:27going a little bit far i usually won't
31:28tell people that but because of your
31:29reservations that's what i'm looking for
31:32if i can disprove something he's told me
31:34by a phone record phone records don't
31:36lie people do okay so if i can disprove
31:40something that may be important that's
31:42what i need it for i'm not saying i can
31:46has it happened before absolutely is it
31:47critical in cases that i've worked in
31:49the past yes so that's why i want it
31:52okay
31:53again you don't have to give it to me
31:55you can tell me i don't want you to have
31:57it go get a warrant
32:00i'm not even going to tell you if i go
32:01get a try to get a warrant right now i'm
32:03just asking for you to consent and
32:05and again we can write right here what
32:07you're willing to give me which is
32:09the text messages and the phone log and
32:11unfortunately again the attachments on
32:14some of those text messages and i'll
32:15write it on there and then you'll just
32:16sign it okay do you understand the
32:19questions there do you have questions
32:21about any of the things that it says you
32:22understand you don't have to do this
32:24you're doing it of your own free will
32:33and i know you're tired so if you want
32:34to let your dad read it too
32:37that's that's a good idea can you fill
32:39it out before i sign up and just you
32:42read it and you have any questions then
32:43we'll we'll put on there
32:45what we're after
32:47i'm so hungry
32:49you should have told me i would have got
32:50you some food i got food in my car it's
32:52not staying down
32:58just like i got sick prior to this whole
33:00whole thing happening and then i think
33:04all of this compounding the fact that
33:05i'm sick it's just not good i've not
33:08really been eating or sleeping much at
33:10all
33:17yeah i
33:20i'm with you we definitely need to
33:23accelerate the case because
33:25the more law the more it takes the less
33:28sure that they are of
33:30situations
33:32but on the other end i think if we
33:35if you do just that only you tell me
33:37what you're willing to provide me and
33:39we'll write it enough
33:41i just want like our text conversation
33:44and then i guess our phone call records
33:47so i'm going to put so the time and date
33:49of the phone call records and then our
33:51text message how did we get photos of
33:52him
33:53huh could we get photos of him
33:56would you mind if we got his photos that
33:59he sent to you
34:01well there will be in that text message
34:02thing so all his photos were sent there
34:04was no apps or anything else that you
34:06guys were sending it was all just text
34:08messages yeah okay so it'd be an
34:11attachment to a text that he sent you
34:13pretty much right everything is in the
34:15text and the phone call records so like
34:17all of it because we don't have it on
34:19tape we discussed prior to turning the
34:21tape on
34:24on tuesday which would have been the
34:2614th of august
34:29you had read some newspaper articles on
34:31the 13th and the 14th that regarded this
34:33case he had also had a conversation with
34:35chris at some point during the day on
34:37monday
34:38and on tuesday because of what you found
34:41specifically what you said was and i
34:43don't let me put words in your mouth but
34:44you you found out that his
34:47wife was pregnant
34:49yes and you did not know that prior
34:52and you found that out via the newspaper
34:54articles
34:55and that caused you
34:57concern
34:59well i just realized that he was lying
35:01to me and i was like well if you can lie
35:02to me about this what else are you lying
35:04to me about and it made me realize that
35:06maybe his wife was in danger at that
35:08point and it was day two two and she
35:10still wasn't home
35:11what did that cause you to do with your
35:13phone though
35:15oh what when i deleted those
35:17i was just kind of grossed out by him to
35:19be honest with you i was just like i
35:21don't know what's going on right now but
35:23you just lied to me
35:25and i don't want to see this come over
35:26my phone anymore so i removed it so you
35:31just you already said but you remove
35:32text messages i deleted all of his stuff
35:35because he lied to me i mean that's what
35:37it was it was it was the hurt that made
35:39me
35:40delete it and then it was the lie
35:43that made me start questioning
35:45everything else he'd been telling me for
35:46the last few days and that's when you
35:48decided to come forward yes okay
35:50so just for context
35:52when people delete stuff off phones
35:54usually we go
35:56home
36:02he lied to me it just hurt like i had
36:04never felt like he'd ever lied to me
36:06before and it was a big lie i mean
36:08telling somebody that you're
36:10in the midst of a divorce and then you
36:14have a wife that has a 15 week old baby
36:18on the way is
36:20a huge huge thing and i was very taken
36:24back and i was just it was hurt and so
36:27at that point i just
36:29i like deleted it i had i had a few
36:32more quick
36:34things to say to him and then i just
36:38got rid of him that's literally what i
36:40did i just cut them out of my life it
36:41would have honestly been like a bad
36:42breakup kind of thing like if none of
36:45this other stuff would have happened
36:46that's what it would have been that
36:47would have been the end of it the
36:48information was not destroyed
36:51because there was anything in there that
36:52would be
36:54harmful to you or
36:56potentially to chris at this point but
36:58harmful to you in particular that's not
36:59why you did it no you did it out of
37:03oh excuse my language this guy's an
37:04[ __ ]
37:06so i'm getting rid of him and i'm
37:08getting this stuff off my phone that was
37:09like me kicking him out of my life
37:12and then like i said and then realizing
37:14that he lied that was when i was like
37:15okay
37:17maybe his family is in danger and
37:19they're not coming back and they're not
37:20staying with a friend
37:24yeah when did i go over there tuesday
37:26morning wednesday morning
37:28i called you wednesday morning that's
37:30when we started discussing you guys need
37:31to get
37:33everything that
37:34could just
37:36you can understand the importance of no
37:38question we were like i said people live
37:41phone records don't
37:43um and they really help specifically
37:45um
37:46establish dates and times i think we all
37:49have a very good grip on that in this
37:50case already but there may be a time
37:52when we go we need to know something
37:54else and then we would have it we don't
37:56want to lose it and that's that's really
37:58what it is for us is if we lose
38:00information that later on we go man i
38:02wish we would have got that
38:03and we may never even use these we may
38:05never even look at them but if if we
38:08have it now then we don't worry about
38:10losing it so i appreciate you being
38:11cooperative and giving it to us so the
38:13first thing i wrote was text messages
38:16between chris watts and attachments
38:19okay so because we're talking about the
38:20photographs unfortunately that cause you
38:24much disdain
38:27and then i am going to put phone log
38:32for
38:33calls
38:35between
38:38uh yourself and chris watts
38:41your phone number is
38:43seven two zero
38:44six five 656
38:479605
38:55and this right now is located at we're
38:58at the thornton police department it's
39:00going to be moved to my
39:01so this is kind of
39:03doesn't make sense but we're here it's
39:04going to be moved to the color bureau of
39:06investigation
39:07he's going to download it here but i'm
39:08going to take it with me just so you
39:09know it's not staying here okay they're
39:11not going to retain any of this this
39:12comes with me okay okay
39:16is there anything else you want on there
39:18i think that's about that's it i mean i
39:21don't have social media i don't really
39:22have anything else you guys can pull
39:25okay is there anything else you know of
39:27that could help us with this that that
39:29is not on this sheet
39:31uh as far as like
39:33data that's on your phone no
39:35no i mean everything we did was like
39:37text and talk pretty much
39:40i mean and like i said any pictures that
39:42i had like even if you were to restore
39:44all my regular photos there's so many
39:46pictures in there and you wouldn't even
39:47know which ones were for him and which
39:48ones weren't but the one any picture
39:50that i wanted to send to him i sent me a
39:51text so if you guys go through the text
39:53and the attachments you will have
39:55you will have everything that wasn't
39:57said verbally and was done via text but
39:59i think that's it like i don't have
40:01i don't have anything else
40:04as far as like no facebook no instagram
40:06no no twitter no linkedin like none of
40:09it so um there was never any of that
40:12kind of correspondence so i think that
40:14should probably cover everything you
40:16guys will need is there any particular
40:18messages that i would help me so i don't
40:20have to look at
40:22because
40:22whatever's on your phone i don't know
40:23how long we're going to get back to but
40:25let's say there is a particular date or
40:28time or message that stands out to you
40:30that would be relative to specifically
40:32to the investigation into this case that
40:34might assist me in understanding why
40:37something like this could have occurred
40:40i'm still in shock that this whole thing
40:42happened right i
40:43i like
40:45that's why i gave him the benefit of the
40:47doubt for the first day because i was
40:49just like no way like i didn't even
40:51think about that i mean murder was not
40:54on the top of my mind when somebody
40:56doesn't come home for an evening
40:58especially if they've just like
41:00had some sort of like heated
41:02conversation it's like okay you guys are
41:04separating i'm heated conversation
41:07you leave for a night like i didn't even
41:09think
41:10this guy killed his wife i mean that
41:12like murders on something on the top of
41:14my mind when i call one of my friends
41:17for three or four hours and she doesn't
41:18answer the phone like that doesn't even
41:20process to me is like a real thing
41:24that is a possibility at that point and
41:27so that's why i gave it a day and then
41:29the second day i was talking to him he
41:31was just like a hot mess i could tell
41:33and then
41:34with like the way he was talking to me
41:36and then that's kind of when i cut him
41:39off and i stopped talking to him
41:41and then so remember what you just said
41:43and we're going to get to that because
41:44that's probably a very important
41:46conversation so if you want to know
41:48i would probably honestly just start it
41:50like sunday and work your way forward i
41:52mean all the rest of that stuff it's
41:54just like the small talk of like hey
41:56this this this you know i mean and your
41:59relationship building through the yeah i
42:01mean like and if you go like a maybe
42:03like a week further back like there's
42:05times like i was trying to help him find
42:06an apartment like just for him not for
42:09me but for him and his kids
42:11um to get set up and like there's times
42:14where i'm like well
42:15where's your wife moving to like
42:18how close is she gonna be to you you
42:20should be within like 30 minutes of your
42:21kids so they're close and like you want
42:24to be close to their school and close to
42:25your gym and like what's your price
42:28range like i was helping him get all of
42:30this stuff set up and it was like in a
42:32very decent manner i don't know if all
42:34of that is in text some of it's probably
42:36on the phone like at this point i've
42:38talked to him so much that i don't even
42:40know
42:41which parts are like verbalize and which
42:43parts are texted at this point but we
42:46can figure it out okay
42:48you see what i wrote text messages
42:50between chris watts and attachments
42:53and then the phone logs for calls
42:55between your phone number and chris
42:56watts that's those are the two things
42:58that were asked
43:00to be extracted from your phone
43:02so if you're okay with that why does it
43:04say adam's removed cell phone data isn't
43:05that this that is that and that's what
43:07he's going to remove and then that
43:09officer is going to fill that out
43:11you
43:12what is the date i don't even know what
43:13today is the 16th
43:29yeah we just
43:30we want to give you everything but we
43:32also want to be protected in doing so
43:35it's more of the sure there's more of
43:37the thing it's just and when he's done
43:39we'll give you is there a password or
43:41anything like will it lock up after a
43:43period of time
43:52and make sure there's nothing written on
43:55the back
44:02let's go back to north carolina okay he
44:04went to north carolina and he was trying
44:06to
44:07rehab his marriage with his wife uh he
44:09said do you know her name at this point
44:11yeah okay
44:13are you okay saying her name
44:15it's shanann all right and you know the
44:17children's name yes
44:21she went by they called her cece
44:23all right so he went to were they in
44:26north carolina they're already there if
44:27you want something
44:30on my stomach
44:32yeah they were already out there you
44:34just fell out there did you know why
44:35they were there they're they're all from
44:37there okay so they were there they were
44:39visiting her family for the most part
44:43until he got there and then they still
44:45were mostly visiting her family okay
44:48did you know how long they had been
44:49there a while
44:51like weeks all right
44:53and he flew out to join
44:55his family there yep
44:57did you know specifically where he flew
44:59to well airport no no what city
45:02no
45:04i'm sure if i thought real hard maybe i
45:06could think about it but i mean come up
45:08with it no i don't know all right so he
45:11goes there how do
45:12you said it was like the last week of
45:14july i think so i think it was like one
45:16of the last days of july i'm almost
45:18positive i think it was a weekday okay
45:21um
45:24yeah i flew out there and
45:27i
45:27thought i had like convinced him to like
45:30try
45:31to make peace with her and i was like if
45:33you guys work on this like
45:36i'm out because what's the point like
45:37i'm not trying to be with somebody
45:38that's in another relationship which i
45:40know that sounds silly given the whole
45:42relationship that we had in the first
45:44place but
45:45i really was under the impression
45:47that they
45:48were separating i mean it was like
45:51reiterated to me so many times that
45:54that's what i thought it was and it made
45:55sense to me too because like he could
45:58pretty much call me whenever he wanted
45:59like i was the one that would tell him
46:01like hey when your kids are awake you
46:02need to spend time with your kids like
46:03do that and then after they go to bed
46:06like if you want to talk to me you can
46:07talk to me but it was never like this
46:09super super restricted thing like
46:12sometimes like right after work
46:16if i was like still talking to him i get
46:17kind of bummed out and i you know i tell
46:19him just like oh it's frustrating
46:20sometimes like having to like wait but
46:22at the same time i was never like this
46:24is horrible or you know it was always
46:27like i understood why
46:29but then once his kids were asleep
46:32he never
46:33like had any
46:36it was like he could do what he wanted
46:38do you know what i'm saying like he was
46:39in his basement and she's upstairs and
46:41they're not speaking
46:44so it kind of made sense it wasn't like
46:46you guys were just texting
46:48or talking or whatever you know i mean
46:51and it was just it was like i said it
46:52was at certain times but that time and
46:54originally it wasn't but it was me that
46:56put that time frame on there because i
46:58thought you should hang out with his
46:59kids
47:01um
47:02those two times you were at his house
47:03did you see any evidence of that him
47:05living in the basement
47:07did he ever show you that area
47:09yeah i went down there and saw his his
47:11little workout equipment and there's a
47:13bed down there all set up and the
47:14basement was all clean and organized and
47:16stuff so
47:17um like a like a decent bed set up so it
47:20made sense to me like hey this is this
47:23is what's happening down here
47:25um so i saw it
47:27um even though his family was in north
47:29carolina for multiple weeks it appeared
47:31that he was still living in the basement
47:34well and he told me sometimes he would
47:36like go upstairs and sleep if if like he
47:38was home alone because i know she'd like
47:39go on business trips and stuff but he's
47:41like i don't like that bed anyway so he
47:43didn't really like sleep up there i was
47:44like okay
47:46um even when it was just him so
47:49that was the impression that i got um
47:53i don't know where to talk about north
47:54carolina yeah go back to norfolk oh
47:57north carolina
47:58um
48:00so
48:02he
48:03still made very frequent communication
48:04with me when he was out there and
48:07at one point he told me that they sat
48:09down
48:11and they talked about it and he told her
48:14that he wanted to either fix things or
48:17like to try to fix things and if she
48:18didn't want to fix them then they needed
48:20to like move forward with the separation
48:22and like actually file for a divorce at
48:24this point was was the impression that i
48:26got from this and just what he told me
48:28and so
48:30um
48:32he said that she was like pretty
48:33receptive to just not trying he was like
48:37she seemed like she just wants me to go
48:39he's like when she has her mind made up
48:40she has her mind made up and that's what
48:41she wants and he's like she doesn't want
48:43to try anymore and he's like and neither
48:45do i really and he was like it's done
48:47and he's like
48:48um
48:49and then the next day
48:52i don't even know what days these were
48:53sometime when he was out there he told
48:55me um
48:58we're putting the house up for sale as
48:59soon as we get back and i was like well
49:01that was quick and he was like it's her
49:03she's ready to go and i was like okay
49:06and
49:07so i left it at that and then um
49:11he got back and i started asking him
49:13like
49:14what are you going to do because the
49:16colorado housing market is fire and you
49:18guys are going to sell this house like
49:20real fast and i'm like you need to start
49:22looking for a new place to live and i'm
49:24like where do you want to live
49:26and i was really trying to help him out
49:28i'm like do you want to get a house
49:30do you want three bedrooms so you have
49:32one and each of your girls have one i'm
49:35like do you want to
49:37you know like do an apartment like what
49:39do you want you know where do you want
49:41to live because he's in frederick but
49:42that whole area over there is just like
49:44a bunch of small towns and you can kind
49:45of just pick and choose everything's
49:47kind of you know and so
49:49um he told me why i like brighton and i
49:53was like okay
49:54and then he told me he wanted a
49:57two-bedroom apartment and he said he
49:59wanted one room for him
50:01and the other room for his two girls
50:03and i thought it was kind of cute like i
50:05remember telling him i was like yeah me
50:07and my sister had bunk beds like at my
50:08dad's house and i was like when we were
50:10little girls and we were me and my
50:12sister the same age apart as
50:14him and his i mean as his two daughters
50:16you know so i told him i was like
50:17they're gonna love it it was like they
50:19might be like stuck in in one room
50:20together i was like but they'll become
50:22like best buddies and it was really
50:24exciting like i liked helping him and i
50:26just wanted him to like
50:30i don't know this is what he told me he
50:32wanted so i was like well i will help
50:34you do the research but another thing
50:35that i really took care of was to be
50:37like where is she moving to i was never
50:40like you know what screw your wife try
50:41to get a full custody none of that
50:43[ __ ] it was always just like
50:45you know i'd ask him i'm like what kind
50:47of custody you guys gonna have because
50:48he said he at work they're about to
50:50switch his schedule so right now he's
50:52like a monday through friday and they're
50:54about to switch these guys to eight days
50:55on six days off that's tough
50:58that's awesome and i and i was so i was
51:01telling i was asking him i was like are
51:03you gonna have your kids like on that
51:05set of days off i was like because that
51:07would work perfect like one week on one
51:09week off and i was just like you know we
51:11just talk about it i'm like what is your
51:13plan and he's like we haven't figured
51:15out exactly what we're going to do about
51:17the kids yet but he told me he's like
51:18colorado's a 50 50 state and she's okay
51:21with everything 5050. like he said that
51:23she was like on board with this because
51:25she wanted it to like she was checked
51:27out of this relationship
51:29so that was like how he made this sound
51:32that it was like a very like
51:34kosher
51:36we're done kind of thing did you ever
51:38give him like
51:40books or
51:41articles or anything to read about
51:43saving your marriage
51:44did you ever provide anything to him
51:46like that about saving his marriage yeah
51:48like how to recover a marriage or how to
51:50save your marriage you know there's
51:52there's all sorts of publications and
51:54books out there no but i did tell him
51:56and i don't know if i did this through
51:57text or phone that will be something you
51:59guys will i'm sure figure out um but i
52:01would tell i told him a few times like i
52:04think that you should take the time to
52:05read some articles uh about um what
52:09separation does to kids you know i told
52:11him i said when my parents separated we
52:14were literally like three and five we
52:16were almost the exact same age as these
52:17little girls and i told them i said you
52:19know
52:20i was so young when it happened
52:22that
52:24it didn't really have like a big
52:26negative effect on me because it was so
52:27small that i didn't really process it
52:29too well i was like but i do have
52:30cousins that their parents got divorced
52:32when they were like 10 11 and i think
52:34that it hit him a little harder you know
52:37and he's like oh they'll be fine you
52:39know and i told him i was like even
52:40though they're small and you think that
52:42they'll be fine i was like i think you
52:44guys should just read about it just so
52:45that you guys are prepared in case you
52:47know one of these two starts having a
52:49hard time with the fact that you guys
52:51aren't in the same house anymore
52:52you know and and i would tell them i was
52:54like you know there's pros and cons to
52:55it like
52:56because he was like getting ready to do
52:58it and it would be like you know it's
52:59kind of cool having two christmases and
53:01you know like your parents get to go you
53:03know be happy doing whatever it is they
53:05want to do with their lives and they
53:06don't have to be in a situation that's
53:09probably not good for the kids because
53:10it's not good for those two you know but
53:12at the same time it was like just read
53:15like that's what i always used to tell
53:16him i'd always tell him to like i i tell
53:18people to read about everything reading
53:19was so good for you so he
53:22at this time is telling you that
53:24yeah i am the guy trying to save the
53:26marriage and she doesn't want it that's
53:28what he told me that's what he told me
53:30so
53:31um
53:32and he yeah and then he was like she
53:34doesn't want it so i'm not gonna do it
53:36and then it was like we're filing for
53:38divorce we're selling the house
53:41and this was like all as soon as they
53:42were coming back from north carolina
53:43like
53:44would you recall when he gets back from
53:46north carolina no i don't even know how
53:47long he's out there i know it was like
53:49less than two weeks and more than one
53:51okay i don't remember so he's he comes
53:53back early august would that be fair oh
53:56yeah it was definitely like in the first
53:57two weeks somewhere all right probably
53:59the second week of august at some point
54:01in that i don't remember when does his
54:02wife come back with him at that time or
54:04yeah they all came back yeah i'll come
54:05back at the same time they all came back
54:07um
54:08and then uh
54:10yeah so he he
54:13continues to just
54:15you know tell me that this is like what
54:16he wants and and so i took the time and
54:18you will see that in the text too where
54:20i like like they're like i found this
54:23apartment it was perfect it was so cute
54:25i was like it's in your price range it's
54:27like six miles from the gym it's 23
54:29miles from work i'm like you know it's
54:31super close to frederick it's gonna be
54:33by your kid's school like this is this
54:36is the spot you know and and
54:38and i told him i was like i'll keep
54:40looking for more places and he's like
54:41well there's some that i want to go see
54:43too and he actually had me thinking that
54:45he was going to go look at these places
54:47this week
54:49before
54:50so this is fairly recent then it just
54:52happened like he's going to go look at
54:54apartments he wanted me to go when you
54:56say this week are you saying like this
54:58monday was the 13th
55:00like this week okay yeah so i told him i
55:03was like well pick out a few spots
55:05and if you want me to come with you i'll
55:07go look at them but you you know you
55:09said earlier that he had never um or
55:12that the the apartment wasn't for you
55:14and him it was just for him and his
55:15children oh yes it was you weren't had
55:17no intentions of moving in with him i
55:19have my own spot i still have a lease
55:21there until july and even then like he
55:23never asked me to move in with him
55:25and
55:26i never tried to move in with him i mean
55:29i told him i mean
55:32i really try to take everything with
55:33this whole situation very slow the only
55:35part that i screwed up on was the fact
55:37that he wasn't completely separated from
55:39her when him and i decided to
55:42spend time with each other that is where
55:44i screwed up but other than that
55:45everything else it was always like
55:48you know
55:49you build your life i'm going to build
55:51my life we will intertwine them but i am
55:54not ready to like do this and he
55:56respected that and i and i um i even
56:00said that and i don't know if that might
56:01be in the text but
56:03so that two words like chris like you
56:05need space like you're just getting out
56:08of a divorce like personally i think
56:10jumping into a new relationship is a
56:12little quick it's like i was in a
56:14relationship earlier this year and i
56:16think this is also a little quick and
56:18i'm like so why don't we take our time
56:20and i'm like if you guys end up doing a
56:22week on a week off with your kids and
56:24like the week you have your kids
56:26be with your children and the week that
56:28you don't i'm like i don't even want to
56:30see you every day i'm like i think we
56:31should spend like a few days of that
56:33together i'm like because i like my
56:35space and i think you need your space i
56:37think you need your space to like
56:38develop your identity again and like get
56:40it back because i think he's just been
56:42like
56:43so wrapped up in this whole thing that
56:45he's got in his own life and his life
56:47that he i mean he doesn't remember
56:48probably what it's like to like be
56:50single or have time where it's like
56:52just him sure so i was just like you
56:54know like embrace that i think it's a
56:56beautiful thing and i really try to like
56:58take it smart with all that and it was
56:59the same thing with his kids i was just
57:01like you know like and i if we talk
57:04about things every once in a while where
57:05i you know i'd be like hey if i ever
57:07meet you know because like i have a lot
57:08of house plans it's a good example so i
57:10have a lot of house plants and i told
57:12i told them i was like one day if i ever
57:15meet your kids i was like i'm gonna show
57:17these girls how to like paint pottery
57:19and plants plants i was like i think
57:21they would love to see something grow
57:22that they built i think it would be
57:24really really cute and like little stuff
57:26like that but it wasn't very frequent it
57:28wasn't hey we should get married and hey
57:30we should have babies and hey i want to
57:32live with you and hey i need to meet
57:34your children now and let's cut the mom
57:36out it was never like that
57:38there was never any conversation about
57:40but you know we can't do this with her
57:41around we can't do this with the kids
57:43around he never said that you never said
57:45that no so there
57:50the
57:52way you guys were trying to make this
57:53work was just
57:56you know slowly trying to come together
57:58because of his
57:59current situation
58:01and you buy your own account your own
58:03mine you're just a
58:06independent person that sounds like
58:07pretty much
58:08and
58:09uh but through text message or through
58:12conversation he never
58:14said hey you know
58:17this is going to be financially able i'm
58:20not going to be financially able to do
58:21this or this isn't a good thing i got
58:24these kids
58:25none of those conversations ever came up
58:27no i mean he told me like he had a
58:30budget restriction so for his apartment
58:32and i'm pretty sure this is in the text
58:33and this will probably be in the last
58:34couple weeks um he told me 1100 to 1400
58:37when i was asking him like because i
58:39told him i'd help him do homework i was
58:41like you just homework i'll do smaller
58:42we'll knock this out because if you guys
58:44are for real putting the house up
58:46you got to figure it out
58:48um
58:49and so
58:51that was his budget and i remember
58:53asking him i was like you sure you don't
58:54want to just get like a house and he's
58:55like i never thought about a house i'm
58:57like yeah you can rent houses man like
58:59it's a thing and he's just like i don't
59:01know if i can afford that i was like
59:03okay and i knew that those two had been
59:06through some financial trouble i
59:07definitely found out a lot more about
59:09that situation in the newspaper recently
59:13um
59:14okay so prior to the newspaper how did
59:16you know he was in financial difficulty
59:18because he i mean
59:20i when i went to the house
59:23everything in there is very very very
59:26very nice it looks like it all comes
59:28with a very expensive price tag
59:30and uh i didn't say anything to him
59:32about it but i could kind of tell then
59:34where i was like just looking at
59:35everything like how do you guys afford
59:38this and then he has that car
59:40that's i don't even know how much that
59:41car cost but i got what car is that
59:43lexus i'm sure that thing cost like 80
59:46grand but just like money like
59:48everything just looked like it cost a
59:49lot of money in that house you probably
59:52have a decent idea of how much money he
59:54makes yeah and it's not enough money to
59:56pay for all that not even close did you
59:58have any
1:00:13for available uh i don't know exactly
1:00:15how much she made he said that she was
1:00:17really competitive and she liked to try
1:00:18to keep up with them he's like she gets
1:00:20close sometimes so i don't know how much
1:00:22those two brought in i mean off top my
1:00:23head if i could guess probably somewhere
1:00:25around like 140k a year i mean i don't
1:00:28know because i don't know exactly how
1:00:30much he makes and i don't know exactly
1:00:32how much she makes but based just off of
1:00:33like what i know about the oil field
1:00:35like
1:00:35yeah
1:00:37i would say that's probably an accurate
1:00:38estimate so
1:00:39even if they're making let's just use
1:00:41the figure 100 000
1:00:44they're living above their means or
1:00:45below their oh my god like
1:00:47way too much
1:00:48way way way did we ever discuss with you
1:00:50any of those issues i mean a little i
1:00:53mean i didn't know about the bankruptcy
1:00:54or any of that until i read on the
1:00:56newspaper about that but he just i think
1:00:59he was really frustrated with the
1:01:00situation um he told me he's like you
1:01:03know i feel like my paycheck goes in my
1:01:04bank account and i just watch it go like
1:01:06this he's like but it doesn't have to
1:01:08he's like she makes it like that
1:01:10so was he resentful for that i don't
1:01:12know if he was resentful i just think he
1:01:14was frustrated by the fact that they
1:01:16could be doing a lot better financially
1:01:18and she
1:01:20from the by that i got i had really bad
1:01:23spending habits
1:01:24so she was a spender
1:01:26um
1:01:27the car hers or his i think it's hers
1:01:30okay i'm pretty sure that that's hers do
1:01:32you know what other car they might have
1:01:34well i mean his apc pickup truck and
1:01:37that's that's it yeah i think that's
1:01:39owned by anadarko though right yeah
1:01:41so i don't i don't think they own any
1:01:43other vehicles as far as i know i think
1:01:45it's just that thing and
1:01:47anadarko who doesn't allow him to drive
1:01:48that on his own personal time right so
1:01:51he's just got one vehicle
1:01:53and it's a very expensive lexus
1:01:56and then they live in a pretty expensive
1:01:58house it's a huge house yeah i was very
1:02:01taken back when i saw it i was just like
1:02:04how fixtures inside caused you to pause
1:02:08everything everything was just like
1:02:11and then you mentioned today you read
1:02:12something about uh bankruptcy
1:02:15what did you read that those guys filed
1:02:17bankruptcy for a lot of money and who
1:02:20are those guys see that that couple okay
1:02:22in 2015. oh shanana chris thanks piled
1:02:25bankruptcy in 2015. okay and you said
1:02:28for a lot of money do you recall the
1:02:30amount no because it was different in
1:02:32each in newspapers and i don't know
1:02:34which one to believe so
1:02:36hundreds of thousands of dollars
1:02:39so um
1:02:41yeah i didn't know that let's go just
1:02:43back to him and the financial
1:02:46he
1:02:47tells you
1:02:48he has a concern enough to at least
1:02:50express some
1:02:51something to you that he's frustrated
1:02:53with the way she spends or he's upset
1:02:56with working so hard and never having
1:02:58any money and she's kind of the
1:03:01responsibility
1:03:02she's the responsible party for spending
1:03:04most of the money i i pretty much got
1:03:06that vibe i mean he just told me he's
1:03:08like where house broke all the time i
1:03:10was just like that's unfortunate and i
1:03:12asked him i was like do you have 401k
1:03:14and he was like yeah and i mean the
1:03:16reason i ask him this is because
1:03:19if i get in a relationship with somebody
1:03:22i want to know like what kind of baggage
1:03:24that they have i think that's important
1:03:26if i walk into a situation where i'm
1:03:27like hey i have good credit and i have
1:03:29all these things that i've been building
1:03:32and
1:03:33you
1:03:34don't have your stuff together like what
1:03:35are we going to do with this and it's
1:03:37important for your your long term you're
1:03:39smart so i'm preparing and so i just
1:03:42asked someone will do you have 401k and
1:03:44he was like
1:03:46he's like yeah i do have that and then i
1:03:48asked him i was like
1:03:50um
1:03:51i i didn't ask him like how much debt
1:03:53they had or anything but i just said is
1:03:55your lifestyle sustainable and he was
1:03:57like no
1:03:58and i was like how long do you think
1:03:59that's going to take he's like i don't
1:04:01know but it's not sustainable where did
1:04:03his girls go to school i don't know he
1:04:05never actually told me like when i gave
1:04:07him i asked him once it was like when i
1:04:09was trying to find him in an apartment i
1:04:11was like are you comfortable tell me
1:04:13where your girls go to school that's in
1:04:14the text too i was like so i can figure
1:04:16out what distance from the apartment is
1:04:19i was trying to just make his life
1:04:20convenient with like him his ex his kids
1:04:23and all the stuff that he needs to do
1:04:25and work
1:04:26um
1:04:27and he was like
1:04:29don't worry about it their school is
1:04:30pretty centrally located so anywhere in
1:04:33the area that we were discussing will be
1:04:35fine and he just left it at that so he
1:04:37didn't even tell me which was fine i
1:04:38respect daycare is obviously very
1:04:40expensive for a
1:04:41three and five-year-old
1:04:43right so i understand did he ever bring
1:04:46uh any did he ever discuss that never
1:04:48okay never
1:04:50um
1:04:51uh like the only like i said the only
1:04:53financial thing he ever said is just
1:04:54like she just likes to spend money like
1:04:56a lot of it so that was just kind of the
1:04:58vibe that i got from that and that it
1:04:59was just it was a lifestyle that she
1:05:01liked to live like very
1:05:05like materialistic kind of lifestyle
1:05:08wanted to project a certain image yes
1:05:10all the time and he said that that was
1:05:12why they got that house too it's like
1:05:14she wants everybody to think that we
1:05:16live a certain way and that we can like
1:05:18sustain all this stuff and he's like and
1:05:20we can't and i told him i said when
1:05:22you're in those situations why don't you
1:05:25i'm like do you do you like voice your
1:05:28concern about this
1:05:30and
1:05:30he told me he's like when i try to talk
1:05:32to her he's like she's really bossy and
1:05:34she usually shuts me out and he's like
1:05:36when she does that he's like i just let
1:05:38it go
1:05:39and i'm just like all right i mean i
1:05:41don't i don't try to like interfere with
1:05:44how those two interact but i did ask
1:05:47about it because i'm just curious
1:05:49because i would never put myself in a
1:05:50situation where someone was like you
1:05:51know what we're going to live in this
1:05:52house that costs like double what we can
1:05:54afford and that's how it's going to be
1:05:56because i want everybody to think we're
1:05:58fancy because i wouldn't do that i mean
1:06:00to me like i wouldn't put up with
1:06:02somebody doing that to me and i'm not
1:06:03saying that that's what she was doing
1:06:05i mean for all i know he could have been
1:06:07completely lying about this he could be
1:06:08the one spending all the money sure you
1:06:10know this is just what he told you
1:06:12exactly so i mean that's as far as i can
1:06:14interpret it so i can't be like well oh
1:06:16she needs to do this and she needs to do
1:06:18that but you know he just he voiced his
1:06:20concern where it's just like financially
1:06:22i'm in a very bad spot that i
1:06:26don't need to be in
1:06:28but i'm stuck in and that was kind of
1:06:30where he was at so but i mean he was
1:06:31never like mean when he talked about her
1:06:34he was never hostile like
1:06:36nothing like that he just i mean very
1:06:38calmly like this is the situation and i
1:06:41think the only reason that he even
1:06:42provided me with that information is
1:06:44because i asked
1:06:46okay you said something um about
1:06:50her being controlling or
1:06:53bossy bossy that's what he said
1:06:56policy
1:06:57in like all aspects of their life or
1:07:00what you know exactly what he meant by
1:07:02that how
1:07:04that affected him
1:07:05i think he was just saying when he
1:07:06voices his opinion it's not her
1:07:10is is the gist of that which i thought
1:07:13from what it sounded like from their
1:07:14separation from them trying to separate
1:07:17that
1:07:19that was a big deal for him where he was
1:07:21saying that
1:07:22the reason that they don't really get
1:07:24along anymore is because he feels like
1:07:26he's not heard he says that he
1:07:29you know he comes home from work and he
1:07:31tries to talk to her and she'll just be
1:07:32like one minute i'm on the phone or
1:07:34she'll like scroll through social media
1:07:36and she like doesn't
1:07:38acknowledge him
1:07:40and um he said that he'd addressed it
1:07:43with her a few times and they're calm he
1:07:45said they don't really like fight like
1:07:47they don't scream and yell
1:07:49um
1:07:50and he said he'd addressed it with her a
1:07:52few times and he said it just fell on
1:07:54deaf ears he's like she just seems like
1:07:56she's not interested anymore and i think
1:07:59it made him sad because
1:08:02i mean he was like all about his kids
1:08:04and he seemed like he was trying to be
1:08:06all about her but it just wasn't
1:08:07reciprocated and i think at that point
1:08:09he was just like i don't
1:08:13that's just they just kind of like
1:08:16fall apart okay just kind of drifted
1:08:18apart
1:08:19was that your words or his
1:08:21what the fellow part
1:08:23those are mine okay those are mine he
1:08:26just said that they didn't communicate
1:08:27very well
1:08:29and it wasn't in a like a
1:08:31aggressive way communicate it was just
1:08:34the fact that they didn't like
1:08:34communicate
1:08:36they just
1:08:38they didn't talk yeah they had children
1:08:40and they did did was ever mention that
1:08:44he was trying to resolve or save his
1:08:46marriage to for the children's sake
1:08:49a lot of people talk about that did he
1:08:51talk about that i mean he told me that
1:08:53he believed that the only reason that
1:08:55those two had still been doing it as
1:08:57long as they've been doing
1:08:58he told me
1:09:00that her and him have had communication
1:09:02issues
1:09:03for about six years where she just seems
1:09:06really like detached and uninterested in
1:09:09like trying to like
1:09:11build something with him
1:09:13um
1:09:15and
1:09:16he said and i said six years is a really
1:09:18long time for you guys to not fix that
1:09:21considering they were married for what
1:09:22eight i mean
1:09:24that's like the majority of their
1:09:25marriage
1:09:27and he said um sometimes i think we just
1:09:30do it for the kids or something like
1:09:31that i mean it's been a long time since
1:09:33i've shown these conversations so i
1:09:34don't know like burping that's what but
1:09:36it was pretty much just like get you to
1:09:38remember something yeah like but he said
1:09:40it wasn't just him though he was like i
1:09:42think she does that too
1:09:45you know i mean and it was like this
1:09:46equal part where they are just kind of
1:09:49like going through the motions i think
1:09:52and so like when he told me that she was
1:09:55cool with like the 50
1:09:57everything and just like breaking it off
1:10:00and being really civil about it it kind
1:10:02of made sense to me because i was like
1:10:04the way he made this sound it wasn't oh
1:10:06she's this horrible person or oh i'm
1:10:08this horrible person it was
1:10:10her and i have just did so far apart
1:10:12that it's kind of a mutual agreement
1:10:13that this is not going to work
1:10:15so in those six years though they had
1:10:17two children yup um and you said earlier
1:10:20you did not know she was pregnant until
1:10:22reading the newspaper
1:10:24so
1:10:26that never came up in any conversation
1:10:29there was no
1:10:31no indications that that was going on
1:10:34he never hinted to anything like that as
1:10:37far as you knew
1:10:40he was just leaving her he had two
1:10:42children
1:10:43and um that was the final
1:10:46take on that yes i think i know why he
1:10:49lied to me he lied to me because if i
1:10:51had known that he had a child on the way
1:10:54i'd never wasted my time with him in the
1:10:55first place like none of this would ever
1:10:57even occur if he would have just told me
1:10:58the truth
1:11:00so do you think if he found out that you
1:11:02um
1:11:04if
1:11:05let's say this week you guys were to go
1:11:07look at some apartments and this is
1:11:08hypothetical but you
1:11:11um
1:11:13you've never found out that
1:11:15his wife was pregnant
1:11:18would
1:11:19would that have changed anything
1:11:21uh like you just said if i knew he was
1:11:23his wife was pregnant i wouldn't be in
1:11:25this picture so if his wife
1:11:28was not pregnant
1:11:29um and
1:11:30forgive me but if if if he takes her out
1:11:33of the picture you're never going to
1:11:34know that she was pregnant right
1:11:38what do you mean take care of the
1:11:39picture
1:11:39if he murdered her
1:11:41she's out of the picture you're never
1:11:43gonna know if she was pregnant if he can
1:11:45get away with murder
1:11:48you're not gonna i got divorced from my
1:11:50wife you said do you understand what i'm
1:11:52saying here if if she's gone
1:11:55don't leave hypothetically please
1:11:58don't hypothetically if she
1:12:00you understand where i'm going if you
1:12:02didn't know you're leading into
1:12:04questions that are nothing with your if
1:12:06you didn't know that wait nick
1:12:09that she was there did you hear what i
1:12:10said
1:12:11i'm not i'm following you i just want
1:12:13her to answer a question that relates to
1:12:16she said something that's important that
1:12:19if he didn't have a child on the way or
1:12:22if he didn't if she didn't know that
1:12:25she would have continued the
1:12:26relationship right would he kill those
1:12:28kids at what point does he think that
1:12:30i'm gonna i'm not related i'm not
1:12:31talking about the children i'm just
1:12:33talking specifically about her if
1:12:37if if you only knew if the kids were
1:12:39still here
1:12:41and he called you and said i'm divorced
1:12:43from my wife
1:12:44and
1:12:45he gets away with this
1:12:48do you understand what i'm thinking from
1:12:50his aspect
1:12:52i still wouldn't do it i still wouldn't
1:12:53do it because i'd be like
1:12:55where did she go okay because i'm under
1:12:58the impression that she's a really good
1:13:01mom like he never bashed her mom and
1:13:04skills like
1:13:05he
1:13:06no
1:13:07no i wouldn't no okay no and that's
1:13:10that you see where i'm trying to take
1:13:11that yes so
1:13:13he never
1:13:14you guys never had a conversation about
1:13:17the child period
1:13:18i didn't know at all all right
1:13:21and by your words if you did know you
1:13:24would have ended the relationship well
1:13:25because it wouldn't have made sense to
1:13:27me that he's like i'm getting separated
1:13:29oh by the way i have a baby on the way
1:13:31it's like it's 15 weeks you
1:13:33are a liar you're just trying to sleep
1:13:35with me that's what i would have
1:13:37probably interpreted that as and i had
1:13:38to just shut that off at work and that
1:13:40would have been the end of it okay
1:13:42um
1:13:43all right
1:13:44we can move past that um
1:13:47the
1:13:49week that he comes back from north
1:13:50carolina you don't remember somewhere in
1:13:53the first couple weeks of august yeah i
1:13:54think it was the second week but i don't
1:13:55remember on top of my head so we'll just
1:13:58use
1:13:58august as a time frame is that fair
1:14:00because you know he left in july and he
1:14:02comes back in august
1:14:04how many times do you think you see him
1:14:06i saw him a few times i saw him this
1:14:09past saturday
1:14:10i saw him the wednesday before that
1:14:12and he wanted to see me more i was one
1:14:14of one of my space i was like nope your
1:14:17kids are home go hang out with your kids
1:14:19and even on wednesday i cut it short
1:14:21like he came and hang out with me for a
1:14:23few hours and then i was like
1:14:24go chill with your kids
1:14:26um i was always like do you know
1:14:28specifically where you guys went
1:14:30did you meet at your house did you guys
1:14:32go to
1:14:33any restaurants did you go to
1:14:34establishments
1:14:36last wednesday
1:14:38he came to my house
1:14:40and this past saturday
1:14:42we went to um what's the name of that
1:14:45bar that we used to go to it's not the
1:14:47same the lazy dog but it's the one off
1:14:49of 144th and like 25. i think it's 144
1:14:54up there and it's the lazy dog yes
1:14:57um did he ever mention a rocky's game
1:15:00that night
1:15:02um
1:15:03no i don't think so but there was a
1:15:06there was a um
1:15:09the broncos were playing okay
1:15:11which we couldn't see because they sat
1:15:13at some really crappy spot so it's okay
1:15:14because it's pre-season but
1:15:16um so you want do you remember what time
1:15:19you went there
1:15:23no i remember well kind of so he had to
1:15:26get a babysitter that night do you know
1:15:28who that was
1:15:29uh somebody who's really young i
1:15:31remember i asked the movies babysitter
1:15:33was and he's like we have two this
1:15:34girl's only 17 but the other one's out
1:15:36of town so this girl's gonna stay
1:15:39and she doesn't do overnights so i gotta
1:15:41be back by 10. i don't remember her
1:15:43saying that and him saying that and i
1:15:46i don't know what time he got to my
1:15:47house it was between i want to say like
1:15:495 30 it might have been five but i don't
1:15:51think so because i think the babysitter
1:15:53if i remember correctly showed up at
1:15:54like
1:15:554 30 or something and he was like i want
1:15:57to spend time getting my kids acclimated
1:16:00to her
1:16:01and then i woke up so her his children
1:16:03didn't even know her oh no they knew her
1:16:05but he was saying like he likes to like
1:16:08stay there for a little while while he
1:16:09doesn't just like walk out the door show
1:16:11up it's like a transitional thing and so
1:16:14um that's what i'm saying i don't know
1:16:16how long i was i want to say like 5 30
1:16:18and then he had to be back by 10 so he
1:16:20left at like nine something to be back
1:16:22by 10. so how picked you up what was he
1:16:24driving
1:16:24no he didn't pick me up he came to my
1:16:27house we drove my truck okay so you
1:16:30he gets to your house you know what he
1:16:31was driving to get your house um off the
1:16:34top of my head i don't remember um
1:16:37i'm pretty sure he usually drives that
1:16:39lexus
1:16:41but he doesn't always park it in my
1:16:42complex because the parking there's not
1:16:44good spaces so where you guys pick me up
1:16:47at a lot of times he'll just park out
1:16:49there because there's room okay um so
1:16:52that kind of works so that he's because
1:16:54there's just not a lot of room in my
1:16:55apartment complex um but off the top of
1:16:58my head i don't know what he was driving
1:17:00what kind of truck do you drive i drive
1:17:02a uh toyota 4 runner okay so you guys
1:17:05take your forerunner to
1:17:08the lazy dog yep and you said they sat
1:17:10you in crappy
1:17:12locations where where were you inside
1:17:15when you walk in you just hang a right
1:17:16and we were like one of the first two
1:17:18booths on the right when you walk in the
1:17:19door you just it's just not a good it's
1:17:21a good spot but just not for the tvs
1:17:23and we actually went to the other lazy
1:17:25dog we went to the one that you and me
1:17:26go to where's that federal and
1:17:28120th it's 120th in federal and we went
1:17:31there
1:17:32and they have a different menu and i was
1:17:34like i don't want to eat this food
1:17:37so we should go the other one so
1:17:38initially you go to the 120th location
1:17:40did you actually get seated
1:17:42uh kind of sort of they were like
1:17:44cleaning off a table and we were
1:17:45standing there just kind of looking at
1:17:47the beer menu in the food menu and i was
1:17:49like i don't want this
1:17:50and so six o'clock
1:17:52probably somewhere around there six six
1:17:54thirty and then we left and went to the
1:17:57other one
1:17:58and we ate dinner
1:18:00and you're in that first or second booth
1:18:01right to the right of the door
1:18:03i'm just asking because if they have
1:18:05video we want to be able to verify that
1:18:07so that's why it's important
1:18:10and you're there for how long oh i don't
1:18:12know probably we didn't stay for dessert
1:18:14so i don't know how long is the
1:18:15restaurant take like an hour and a half
1:18:17i've never been to the lazy dog
1:18:19i know probably about an hour and a half
1:18:21and then uh
1:18:22we went back to my house for a little
1:18:24bit hung out at my house um for a little
1:18:27while and then he had to leave and then
1:18:28he laughed
1:18:30do you recall what time he left
1:18:32i was out of my head no
1:18:34i remember he was like gonna be late to
1:18:36be back at 10. i think there's a text
1:18:38message where he starts texting me when
1:18:40he's home at his house okay so you can
1:18:43probably figure that out and i remember
1:18:45i texted him back and i was like damn
1:18:46that was quick or wow that was really
1:18:48quick he's like yeah i even had time to
1:18:50stop at the atm or stop at the gas
1:18:52station stop somewhere to get money to
1:18:54pay the babysitter okay
1:18:56um and i was just like thinking like
1:18:58well that was really fast um
1:19:01but i think he was still like a little
1:19:02late coming back but nothing too drastic
1:19:04so he probably left my house like
1:19:06somewhere around 9 30 ish
1:19:09all right
1:19:10and
1:19:11you know you go straight home he texts
1:19:12you
1:19:13um
1:19:14well i was already home right no he text
1:19:16you he goes straight home from your
1:19:17house and he texts you that he's home so
1:19:19that should be in your textbook it
1:19:21should be i'm pretty positive that was
1:19:22not a phone call i'm almost positive
1:19:24that was a text sometimes i get them
1:19:25flip-flop or i don't remember but
1:19:27sometimes i know i'm pretty sure that
1:19:28one was a text
1:19:30saturday
1:19:32during your dinner um
1:19:34what kind of conversation did you guys
1:19:36have
1:19:38uh i don't know
1:19:40oh
1:19:41i uh
1:19:43so
1:19:44he's been trying to like eat a little
1:19:46healthier than he normally does and he's
1:19:49always like been in the working out
1:19:50since i knew him and he like tries to
1:19:52eat clean
1:19:54but
1:19:56he was trying to like step it up a
1:19:57little bit and nothing like
1:19:59the people who do like the competitions
1:20:01and the shows that are all super
1:20:02restrictive it there's nothing like that
1:20:03it's just like day-to-day general
1:20:05maintenance but it's how i eat and it's
1:20:06pretty healthy and um
1:20:09he's been losing a lot of weight he lost
1:20:14i want to say like 13 pounds in the time
1:20:17that we were hanging out and honestly
1:20:19when you start eating a little bit
1:20:20cleaner and you start working out a
1:20:22little bit harder
1:20:23the first couple months especially for a
1:20:25man because they lose weight faster
1:20:28it's not something that's like that
1:20:30drastic to me but it did stand out that
1:20:33was like a little much and so i was like
1:20:35whoa like maybe you're not eating enough
1:20:39macronutrients so let me look at them so
1:20:42he had been working on his
1:20:44my fitness pal app i'm like programming
1:20:46like all stuff he eats and i just
1:20:48started going through them and i was
1:20:50like trying to figure out like
1:20:52where his ratios were and we actually
1:20:54spent a lot of time doing that because
1:20:55he had asked me to do it for him um
1:20:57because i just was at the point where i
1:20:59was like
1:21:00if his weight loss slows down in a few
1:21:02weeks
1:21:03he'll be fine
1:21:04and if it doesn't then his macros are a
1:21:06little off it's not like that big of a
1:21:08deal like in the workout community this
1:21:10is like a very normal thing but i have
1:21:12any other outside concerns like
1:21:14potential drug use alcohol use any of
1:21:16that stuff that that
1:21:18led you to go he's lost a extreme amount
1:21:21of weight in such a short period of time
1:21:22no and i wouldn't call it extreme it was
1:21:24just like
1:21:26it was it was a lot but i mean when i
1:21:29first started working out i dropped like
1:21:3012 pounds in two weeks when i first
1:21:32first started like hitting it hard with
1:21:34the diet so the fact that he lost like
1:21:37that much weight it wasn't
1:21:39like i said it was it was
1:21:41not a surprising amount i just didn't
1:21:43want it to be like a sustained amount
1:21:45but no i didn't think anything weird of
1:21:47it just because of like how inner
1:21:49knitted i am with the like workout
1:21:52community and i know like this is
1:21:54possible but it just
1:21:56he the thing that concerned me about it
1:21:58i guess and it wasn't even concerned but
1:21:59the thing that like kind of red lighted
1:22:01me like hey this might be carrying on is
1:22:04the fact that
1:22:05his macros were like
1:22:07pretty dialed in like i wrote them and
1:22:10he like didn't stay exactly on them but
1:22:13his calorie intake was about where it
1:22:15needed to be
1:22:16my experience anyways for like
1:22:19what he was trying to achieve
1:22:21and so i don't know he didn't seem to
1:22:23have a problem with it
1:22:25he liked where he was at with all of
1:22:27that so that was your main conversation
1:22:29saturday that was like a big chunk while
1:22:31we were there is like us actually going
1:22:33through because there's like going
1:22:34through each item like why do you have
1:22:37why are your ratios off you know where
1:22:39his kids or wife were
1:22:40that night
1:22:41on saturday yeah his kid well you know
1:22:44his kids are with the babysitter do you
1:22:45know where his wife is she's in arizona
1:22:47okay how do you know that because you
1:22:49told me okay do you know what she's
1:22:51doing there i think she's on a business
1:22:53trip
1:22:54he didn't even tell me right away he
1:22:55actually told me i think like on
1:22:57saturday
1:22:58or something it might have been like
1:23:00friday or something i don't i honestly
1:23:02don't remember i just remember i was
1:23:03like really surprised where he's like
1:23:05hey like
1:23:07i'm going to try to get a babysitter if
1:23:08you want to hang out or something like
1:23:10that and i was like why do you need a
1:23:11babysitter like your wife's home no
1:23:13she's out of town oh
1:23:15okay is there much conversation
1:23:17regarding that hurt on being on a trip
1:23:20for the children on during those
1:23:22conversations not really i just asked
1:23:24him what time she was coming home on
1:23:26sunday and he just said really late
1:23:28okay and that was it i mean
1:23:30there's nothing really to talk about
1:23:31with that okay
1:23:33so your conversations mainly health
1:23:35related
1:23:37you guys return to your house and then
1:23:39he goes home and then you talk to him
1:23:42for
1:23:43a few hours on sunday
1:23:46did i are you asking me are you i'm
1:23:48asking you oh i was like
1:23:51i don't even know someday honestly oh
1:23:53once so wait a minute that was saturday
1:23:56this is we're talking about saturday
1:23:57we're not talking about sunday right now
1:23:59okay so you're still on saturday yes you
1:24:00guys have a phone conversation when he
1:24:02gets home
1:24:03that was the day that he got the
1:24:04babysitter and i went out to dinner not
1:24:06sunday okay okay sorry i just want to
1:24:08make sure you got your dates right so
1:24:09saturday yes we went out he had the
1:24:11babysitter he went home i'm sure we did
1:24:13we always talk on the phone and honestly
1:24:15i mean mark asked me that the other day
1:24:16he's like how long are you on the phone
1:24:1815 minutes 20 minutes like you're gonna
1:24:20have to look at the records to be honest
1:24:21with you like so much you like to talk i
1:24:24can tell a little bit yeah a little bit
1:24:27400 when she was young she cranked out
1:24:30about 400 words a minute
1:24:32gusts up to 600.
1:24:35yeah you're a talker so i'm i'm letting
1:24:38you talk use the restroom let me show
1:24:40you where it's at so some water while
1:24:42you're out there with sure please thank
1:24:43you
1:24:44another bottle that's at least one let's
1:24:47move to
1:24:48sunday well let me reverse something
1:24:51your conversation with the children or
1:24:53about the children was there every talk
1:24:56about medical concerns with either of
1:24:58the children well i know cece is
1:25:00allergic to
1:25:04not peanuts like
1:25:06pine nuts
1:25:07pine nuts so she hasn't got allergy yes
1:25:10did they take meds yeah i know that she
1:25:12had like an epipen but as far as i know
1:25:15she didn't have any meds but i never
1:25:16asked like i was just told like she has
1:25:19a pretty severe allergy and enough to
1:25:22carry an epipen that's pretty severe
1:25:24yeah while we're on this so when he was
1:25:26in north carolina
1:25:27um
1:25:30this is all like hearsay now because
1:25:32it's like this is not a conversation
1:25:34like he's telling me this stuff but who
1:25:36knows exactly what happened but he went
1:25:38out there to go see his family and her
1:25:40family
1:25:41and while he was in town before he went
1:25:43out to north carolina i guess his mother
1:25:47had accidentally like
1:25:49not exposed her to something with nuts
1:25:52but had like
1:25:54given a product i think it was like ice
1:25:57cream to a different kid
1:25:59that could have traces of nuts or
1:26:01something i don't know but it was like
1:26:03his daughter was fine but she was like
1:26:05in the range of contamination and i
1:26:09think
1:26:09his wife was very upset about that and
1:26:13when he got to north carolina he told me
1:26:15that he was supposed to spend like half
1:26:17time with them half the time with her
1:26:19family and that was supposed to be what
1:26:20it was i don't know but he said that he
1:26:23went to go see his family and they
1:26:25weren't answering the phone for like a
1:26:27day or two before he went out there and
1:26:29then when he got there there was a note
1:26:30on the door that said uh son if you step
1:26:33by or at the beach
1:26:35and they ignored him for like most of
1:26:38the time that he was out there
1:26:40and his own family he is
1:26:42his mom his dad's sister what's the
1:26:45significance do you know under do you
1:26:46know why yeah he said and again i don't
1:26:49know what is true with this man anymore
1:26:51and what's not but he told me
1:26:53that
1:26:55like leading up to it i was like why are
1:26:56your folks like ignoring you and i was
1:26:58like really concerned about this like
1:27:00every single day he would talk to me
1:27:01when he was out there and i was like you
1:27:02talk to your family today you talked to
1:27:04your family today did you talk to your
1:27:05dad what happened did you talk to him no
1:27:07i didn't or yeah i talked to my mom well
1:27:09what'd she say are you gonna hang out
1:27:10with him like i wanted him to see his
1:27:12people because it's important family is
1:27:15an important thing you know it just
1:27:16needs to function properly and true and
1:27:20so i was like well
1:27:22um
1:27:24and he was like well they're ignoring me
1:27:26and i was like what do you think
1:27:27happened and he's like i'm not really
1:27:28sure but i think
1:27:30um
1:27:31something was said between my wife and
1:27:34them during that incident and he's like
1:27:36because every time
1:27:38that happened before he got there yes
1:27:40and he's like because every time that i
1:27:42try to um
1:27:45i talk about possibly going over there
1:27:47to see if they're home
1:27:49she gets upset about it and i was like
1:27:52okay and he told me that his mom and his
1:27:54wife did not get along at all he said
1:27:56that his mom didn't even show up to his
1:27:58wedding because she's like really did
1:28:01not care for
1:28:03shanann so again i don't know what's
1:28:06true and what's not but i just know that
1:28:08there was like some tension there and
1:28:10again like
1:28:11that part is like i feel like it's
1:28:13almost third party so that's why
1:28:15well but it came from him to you so it's
1:28:17not it is something that i um is
1:28:20whether it's important or not we can
1:28:22validate that i'm sure we will be having
1:28:24some conversations with family
1:28:26um you know it what does it mean i don't
1:28:29know um
1:28:31yeah i don't know either but i just know
1:28:33so maybe she you know i don't know well
1:28:35and then um he ended up seeing them on
1:28:38the last like full day that he was there
1:28:41and they told him supposedly that
1:28:44she had gotten really upset and then
1:28:46screamed and yelled in front of his
1:28:49chris's sister's kids that are very
1:28:51young
1:28:52and to his mom and his dad and said like
1:28:54you're never going to see chris again
1:28:55you're never gonna see me you're never
1:28:57gonna see the babies and just like
1:28:58threaten them and then like walked off
1:29:00and i guess that was the incident
1:29:03that happened prior to him coming out
1:29:04there and then she didn't tell him about
1:29:06it
1:29:07she just like let it go and then he just
1:29:10spent all week trying to figure out why
1:29:11his family was like
1:29:13not trying to be involved
1:29:15um so again i'm not sure that was like
1:29:18it just feels really third party so it's
1:29:20hard for me to like talk about because i
1:29:21don't know how
1:29:27did you know of any other does she take
1:29:29meds that you know of other than
1:29:31carrying an epipen his kids or his wife
1:29:34his children
1:29:35no and now well if you know anything
1:29:38about his wife's medical conditions if
1:29:40she had any no i've like read in the
1:29:42newspaper they keep saying oh she had
1:29:44medical conditions and i'm like is that
1:29:45a misprint are they talking about cece
1:29:47or is that just something else i don't
1:29:48know so you don't know anything about
1:29:50uh shannon having any kind of medical
1:29:52problems no okay
1:29:57covered saturday so there's a phone call
1:29:59saturday night actually um from
1:30:03now can't be saturday it had to be
1:30:04sunday i wrote that down
1:30:06quickly sunday night
1:30:09is there anything else you think let's
1:30:10let me just back up from that saturday
1:30:13where you guys had a meal at the lazy
1:30:16dog to prior for the six weeks that you
1:30:19guys were
1:30:20serious and
1:30:22although your dad's here and i think
1:30:23you're probably pretty comfortable your
1:30:25relationship with chris
1:30:27was
1:30:28can you describe your relationship
1:30:31i mean when he was with me i considered
1:30:33it to be fairly healthy was open
1:30:35communication
1:30:37and
1:30:38it was what i thought was honest
1:30:41and
1:30:42it was very calm it was respectful
1:30:45we got along really well he gave me my
1:30:47space when i needed it i gave him his
1:30:50and anytime like he wanted to take care
1:30:53of it like any time that his kids could
1:30:55be in like his life for
1:30:58hours or days or whatever whenever they
1:30:59were home i made sure that i wasn't a
1:31:02presence in his life so that he could be
1:31:04the best dad that he needed to be um and
1:31:07i mean i thought
1:31:09what we had it was very comfortable for
1:31:12me i enjoyed it i think he did very much
1:31:14as well
1:31:16you guys you six eight weeks two months
1:31:19whatever it was you guys have an
1:31:20intimate relationship during that time
1:31:22yes okay
1:31:24so you're pretty serious
1:31:26um
1:31:27did he ever tell you that he loved you
1:31:29yes he did did you ever tell him the
1:31:31same a couple times okay
1:31:33um now we're standing that today because
1:31:36that may those thoughts may have changed
1:31:38for you but on
1:31:40let's go
1:31:42sunday into monday or monday did you did
1:31:45you still love him on those days
1:31:47i think it was something where it was
1:31:48like i s i said it a few times and i
1:31:51meant it but he definitely felt the urge
1:31:54to say it to me a lot more than i did to
1:31:56him because it was just all very new to
1:31:59me and i was like take your time with
1:32:00this like you don't need to
1:32:04to like rush that you know like i
1:32:06remember when he was in north carolina
1:32:08and he was like trying to patch things
1:32:10up with his wife and he told me he loved
1:32:11me and i was like
1:32:12don't say that to me like please go try
1:32:15to fit and i mean and that might even be
1:32:16in the texture it's like don't don't
1:32:18like don't say those words to me
1:32:21and then go try to make peace with your
1:32:23wife and lay in bed with another woman
1:32:24like just don't do that and i was like
1:32:26it's not that i don't
1:32:28appreciate what you're saying to me it's
1:32:29like just
1:32:32it just didn't sit right for me you know
1:32:34so i just feel like almost like an
1:32:35insecurity where you had to
1:32:37say that to you i i don't know i think
1:32:40he he like
1:32:43looking back at all this now i don't
1:32:44think he was trying to fix things with
1:32:46her so saying i love you to me seemed
1:32:48like probably something that he
1:32:50genuinely meant like i love this woman
1:32:53and
1:32:54regardless of where he was going to end
1:32:56up that night but to me
1:32:58in the way that i was perceiving things
1:33:00he had told me that he was trying to fix
1:33:02things with her so it's just like this
1:33:03is an inappropriate time and i wasn't
1:33:05mad at him and i'm pretty sure that's in
1:33:06the text too it was very like
1:33:08calm but it's just like it's almost
1:33:10disrespectful where it's like please
1:33:12don't i'm like you know if we get to
1:33:13that point where it is you and me like
1:33:16yes you can say that but don't not then
1:33:20like that's so you thought he was very
1:33:22genuine when he said that
1:33:24i yeah i did i mean and he wrote it it's
1:33:27in all those cards i gave you not in all
1:33:29of them but like the later ones
1:33:32and
1:33:34thank you when you said it to him you
1:33:35said you meant it when you said it yes i
1:33:38just didn't say it's free more as he
1:33:39said it like sometimes he would say it
1:33:40and i was just like
1:33:42for me
1:33:43it was still like very very new so i
1:33:44kind of like took my time and only said
1:33:46it when i was just like this is a really
1:33:48important
1:33:49moment so you got i mean in the short
1:33:51period of time that you guys were
1:33:52together he yes
1:33:54became very attached to you yes
1:33:57very very he's sending cards flowers
1:34:00he's telling you he loves you he sends
1:34:02you flowers does he buy you any other
1:34:04gifts
1:34:05i wouldn't have wanted them anyways
1:34:06that's flowers is enough you can't i
1:34:08don't need expensive stuff okay
1:34:10but he becomes very attached yes
1:34:12um you guys are talking
1:34:14multiple times a day at least
1:34:16you're you're seeing each other on a
1:34:19regular basis
1:34:20um
1:34:21so it's a very
1:34:24uh and and his wife is not around nor or
1:34:27his children so there's a lot of time
1:34:29for you guys to build your relationship
1:34:30and this first four or four weeks or so
1:34:33is that fair yeah and even when she she
1:34:36was back i mean it was still like we
1:34:37were still spending time together he was
1:34:39still spending time with his children
1:34:41and i had my own life like i mean there
1:34:42was
1:34:43one week where i just like went out of
1:34:45town from with my friends for my
1:34:46birthday i wasn't even around the whole
1:34:48like
1:34:50last few days of june up until the 3rd
1:34:53of july i was like gone you know and
1:34:55then there was another like
1:34:57last weekend i had a friend impromptu
1:34:59come in town from out of state and i
1:35:01hosted her
1:35:02uh for a few days and it's like it
1:35:07like i still did my own thing all the
1:35:09time like whether he was there or not
1:35:11like if my friends were like hey we want
1:35:12to make plans i would tell them like
1:35:14we're not hanging out today because i
1:35:15want to go see my mom or my dad did your
1:35:17friends know about him nope
1:35:20why
1:35:22because it's like he's with two women
1:35:25right now they don't want you to
1:35:27so if you had a boyfriend of four to
1:35:30eight weeks
1:35:31on a regular
1:35:32i don't know if you were married prior
1:35:34or if you had a boyfriend before but if
1:35:36you had a steady boyfriend you would
1:35:38have let
1:35:39people know i think you told me before
1:35:41we got started
1:35:42that you you just told your dad about
1:35:44chris
1:35:46i wouldn't have told people it's too
1:35:48early i mean people so you don't tell
1:35:49your friends
1:35:51people come and go on a dating scene
1:35:54these days was like it sucks i mean so
1:35:57no i wouldn't i mean it would have to be
1:35:58something even with sean i think i was
1:36:01with sean for probably like
1:36:02six or seven months before i brought him
1:36:04home to my family i mean i really insane
1:36:06like that was the guy i was in a
1:36:08previous relationship with but but this
1:36:10one you were a little bit more you said
1:36:12he's
1:36:13with two women did that was that one of
1:36:15your considerations for not telling
1:36:16anybody about him yes well i mean it was
1:36:19like okay like this
1:36:21to me it wasn't going to be an extended
1:36:23thing like if it got to the point where
1:36:25we were like dating for like three or
1:36:27four months and he's still talking about
1:36:29oh i'm gonna move out i'm gonna sell the
1:36:30house i think at that point i probably
1:36:32would have just been like i don't think
1:36:33you're really like
1:36:35doing these things you say you're gonna
1:36:36do and i probably would have just like
1:36:40left because at that point it's not fair
1:36:43it wasn't fair to me in the first place
1:36:44it wasn't fair to her in the first place
1:36:46it wasn't fair to any of us in the first
1:36:48place you know it wasn't fair to his
1:36:50family
1:36:51for him to
1:36:53have an affair it wasn't fair to me
1:36:56to have him lie to me and make me think
1:36:59that
1:37:00everything is going to plan and still to
1:37:02this day i don't even know what to lie
1:37:03and what's not i don't even know if they
1:37:04were like filing for divorce
1:37:06i don't know if they were putting the
1:37:07house up i don't even know
1:37:09i don't even know
1:37:10anymore what is real and what it's not
1:37:12but what i do know is it's just like you
1:37:14know that wasn't fair to me either
1:37:15because if i'd known
1:37:18not even all the truth but like
1:37:20obviously some of it i wouldn't have
1:37:22even engaged in any of this in the first
1:37:24place and it just i mean and that's the
1:37:26part
1:37:27for me just like on my personal level
1:37:29outside of everything that is happening
1:37:32that
1:37:35is gonna affect me long term it's like
1:37:37you know i'm gonna wake up every day and
1:37:39know that like
1:37:40this mom and our unborn child and these
1:37:43two little girls are not around anymore
1:37:45and it breaks my heart it is oh my god
1:37:52and then i have to think about like the
1:37:54consequences of his actions and how they
1:37:56affect everybody else like all of these
1:37:59her families impacted my name is about
1:38:02to be like slandered for probably a
1:38:05while i don't know how long it's gonna
1:38:06take to heal but i would not be
1:38:08surprised if it's gonna be hard to go on
1:38:10public sometimes for a couple of years
1:38:11and that really hurts me i'm just like
1:38:13this is a horrible horrible thing like
1:38:15how dare you you know and people aren't
1:38:18gonna understand that
1:38:19you know they're gonna say oh you know
1:38:22you're the woman that had an affair with
1:38:24this man who took out his whole family
1:38:26and
1:38:27i take a step back and it's just like
1:38:31i didn't know
1:38:32like i i
1:38:35uh
1:38:36it's
1:38:38he's so disgusting i'm so ashamed of him
1:38:41and everything and i just
1:38:46all those little girls
1:38:50they're so little
1:38:52that's so little we talked
1:38:55you talked a little bit earlier about
1:38:57getting some help for these things and
1:38:59we can provide that
1:39:00okay
1:39:03at really no cost
1:39:07please wanna make sure
1:39:09there's resolution absolutely that's why
1:39:11we come to you guys
1:39:13and pound it down
1:39:15sorry that you're talking again today i
1:39:17really am i don't want to put you
1:39:19through any more trauma than you've
1:39:21already been through
1:39:22there is
1:39:24um reasons
1:39:26for everything that we're doing today
1:39:29and what occurred and i'm sorry i
1:39:31genuinely am sorry i it these are not
1:39:33things that we like to do twice it's the
1:39:36same thing with other types of victims
1:39:38from other crimes we want to do it once
1:39:39and we want to be done unfortunately we
1:39:41didn't know yesterday
1:39:43what we know today and that's why we're
1:39:45here because we need this video and i'm
1:39:47i am sorry because i know it's hard to
1:39:49talk about it
1:39:50but it's so sad and she's pregnant
1:39:56and
1:39:57you know what uh on our end we
1:39:59are so cute they're so little like
1:40:02wow
1:40:04why why why why how i don't even
1:40:07understand how you could like bring
1:40:09yourself to do that to somebody who's
1:40:11like that [ __ ]
1:40:22oh
1:40:37[Applause]
1:40:43do you want to step out for a minute no
1:40:45i just isn't sure what mine's clothes
1:40:46looks like
1:40:52i still cannot believe this is happening
1:41:00all right
1:41:01let's keep going because we're just
1:41:02kidding like the meat of this let's get
1:41:05to the phone call on saturday from 9 to
1:41:0711.
1:41:08what did you guys first pardon me on
1:41:11sunday from 9 to 11
1:41:13yeah we talked a few times so
1:41:17it's okay
1:41:18i think so i need to think i can't even
1:41:20think
1:41:21take a couple breaths and take it take a
1:41:23second
1:41:26sunday night
1:41:29i don't even know
1:41:30i don't think i was like concerned about
1:41:32anything at that point
1:41:34you guys had had to meal
1:41:36the night before you knew his wife was
1:41:38probably coming home late that evening
1:41:40oh um you know what
1:41:43i still don't remember what we talked
1:41:44about i like honestly like we talk about
1:41:46so much random stuff like it's so hard
1:41:48to pinpoint some of these things
1:41:50um
1:41:52i don't remember what we talked about i
1:41:53do remember that was a long phone
1:41:55conversation though we probably talked
1:41:56about all sorts of stuff
1:41:58um one thing i do remember though
1:42:00um but i didn't remember earlier when i
1:42:02was talking to mark so this is like
1:42:04where i'm starting to remember like
1:42:06little bits and pieces i i don't
1:42:08remember yeah i know just so the phone
1:42:09conversation
1:42:11i don't know it was in the phone
1:42:12conversation probably nothing of
1:42:14relevance to be honest with you but
1:42:16um
1:42:18usually he talks to me when he's like
1:42:20down in the basement and his bed before
1:42:21he goes to bed and before i go to bed
1:42:24and i could hear the tv on which i
1:42:26thought was kind of weird i didn't ask
1:42:28him i just heard it in the background
1:42:30and i remember thinking and it was like
1:42:31right before we got off the phone i was
1:42:33like why the hell is he up and there's
1:42:35like no tv downstairs so i was like well
1:42:37maybe i don't know tv in the basement
1:42:39where he usually calls you from yeah and
1:42:41i don't know how many tvs they have like
1:42:43i've never been in their bedroom like i
1:42:45went upstairs once and it was like to
1:42:47their little playroom and i just like
1:42:48looked at it and i was like that's super
1:42:50cute that your girls have books and that
1:42:52was like it and other than that i have
1:42:54never been in any of those rooms in that
1:42:56upstairs like to me it was just like you
1:42:58don't
1:42:59know like ever i had no so i don't know
1:43:02if he has any other tvs i'm assuming by
1:43:04like how much other nice stuff they have
1:43:06in their house it wouldn't surprise me
1:43:07so i'm not quite sure what room he was
1:43:09in at that point
1:43:11um
1:43:12but i just remember hearing the tv and i
1:43:14was like
1:43:16it was just weird to me because i was
1:43:17like why are you watching tv right now
1:43:19it is like super late
1:43:21and
1:43:22that was the only thing he had phoned
1:43:25you
1:43:26or were you guys already talking when
1:43:28the tv was going or
1:43:29i just remember like i like
1:43:32picked up on it like later but i don't
1:43:35think it was like throughout the whole
1:43:38conversation like i just remember it
1:43:40being towards the end because i remember
1:43:41thinking like wow it's really late
1:43:44the um
1:43:45somebody didn't ask you about the house
1:43:47because you'd been there twice and it
1:43:48just
1:43:49made me remember do you remember how you
1:43:51guys accessed the house
1:43:54uh that's a good question uh so
1:43:59once through the garage
1:44:02and i think once through the front door
1:44:05i think the first time was through the
1:44:06front door i think
1:44:08and i think the second time was through
1:44:10the garage was there anything unique
1:44:12about either of the doors when you went
1:44:13into the house
1:44:15that
1:44:17might not be typical of another house
1:44:20like the unique door
1:44:21not the door itself
1:44:23okay there's there's a camera on the
1:44:25which door
1:44:26it's on the front door isn't it
1:44:28i don't know
1:44:29i think so
1:44:30uh i don't know
1:44:32um did he use a key to access the house
1:44:37no um
1:44:40he did not the first time i went over
1:44:42there
1:44:43he
1:44:45just let me in and then the second time
1:44:47did we go through the garage i don't
1:44:48remember i've been through his garage
1:44:50before
1:44:51i went through his front door once
1:44:53though because i remember he had just
1:44:54cleaned it was the first time i went
1:44:55through his front door because he just
1:44:57cleaned his carpets
1:44:58and he had moved all the furniture out
1:45:00of the way and the furniture was kind of
1:45:01in the way of the door and he's like the
1:45:04door doesn't open all the way right now
1:45:06i'll move all the furniture back when
1:45:07the carpet dries so i do remember that
1:45:09just kind of offhandedly uh and the
1:45:11second time i want to say we went
1:45:13through his garage because i remember
1:45:16his garage i remember yeah
1:45:19yeah
1:45:21so he was at the house when you went
1:45:22there
1:45:23um you were never there by yourself he
1:45:25was at where he took you there he the
1:45:28first time he was already there okay and
1:45:30i met up with him and the second time we
1:45:32went there together
1:45:34so
1:45:34the front door i asked if he had used a
1:45:37key
1:45:38he let me in okay so there's a um
1:45:42you know those keypads where you can
1:45:44enter a access code do you remember
1:45:46seeing that on his door i like i want to
1:45:48say vaguely but to be honest with you i
1:45:49don't remember like he let me in that
1:45:51day that's so he never gave you he never
1:45:53gave you the code to access this home no
1:45:56okay
1:45:57not at all um you talked about a
1:45:58security system
1:46:00uh there was a
1:46:01camera on the front door was that just
1:46:04like a
1:46:05you know what a ring doorbell is that
1:46:07goes to your phone
1:46:09i don't even know what it looked like i
1:46:10only know that it existed either because
1:46:12a i wasn't paying attention the first
1:46:14time i was over there but b
1:46:15because of all the stuff that's going on
1:46:17right now that's the only reason
1:46:18did you remember seeing any cameras
1:46:20anywhere in the house
1:46:22no okay
1:46:23did he ever tell you about the alarm
1:46:24system or give you an access code to the
1:46:26alarm system
1:46:27i wouldn't have asked for that i
1:46:29wouldn't have wanted that anyways sorry
1:46:30to regress to that no you're going to go
1:46:33back to the
1:46:34phone call or
1:46:36where you noticed the television in the
1:46:38background of the phone call yeah so i
1:46:40didn't know what room he was in but i
1:46:41was just like i just thought it was
1:46:42weird because he's always like
1:46:45before i go to bed and i lay down he's
1:46:47always like kind of trying to do the
1:46:48same thing we just talk it's like a
1:46:50really chill thing to one of us is about
1:46:52to pass out and then that's like the end
1:46:54of it um but it was strange because i
1:46:56was like the tv's on earth i was
1:46:57thinking i was like maybe he's waiting
1:46:59up for her
1:47:00and i was like
1:47:01maybe not
1:47:03i didn't know i didn't it wasn't
1:47:04something that like alerted me it was
1:47:06just different from his standard
1:47:08operating procedure because whether his
1:47:11wife is home or she's gone
1:47:14he's always got kind of like the
1:47:15standard op when he calls me so
1:47:18that's why it was kind of like unique
1:47:22because it doesn't really fluctuate when
1:47:24she's there when she's not there he's
1:47:25pretty like free reign with what he does
1:47:29so anything anything important that you
1:47:31recall during that conversation about
1:47:34the children about his wife about what
1:47:36he
1:47:37was doing the next day what he had
1:47:39planned anything like that did he tell
1:47:41you any of that information i remember
1:47:43he told me he had to go to the field and
1:47:45not to the office on monday morning
1:47:47okay did he specifically say where he
1:47:49needed to go on monday morning no i
1:47:51don't ask him for those sites there's
1:47:52like ana darko's got like thousands of
1:47:55sites if he were to tell me i wouldn't i
1:47:56would they're just like random numbers
1:47:58and stuff right well he told me he said
1:48:00i gotta go to a site i gotta go um
1:48:03check out like a valve or something
1:48:05where they think that they had a release
1:48:07something like that
1:48:08in the town or anywhere
1:48:11no no he just told me that that's what
1:48:13he had to go do he's like
1:48:15yeah he was like i won't see you in the
1:48:17office in the morning because i usually
1:48:18i see him but i don't actually like talk
1:48:20to him like i will go in the cafeteria i
1:48:22will put my lunch in the fridge and him
1:48:24and his whole team are sitting in there
1:48:26and i don't talk to any of them i just
1:48:27walk out
1:48:28um
1:48:30but anyways yeah he's like so i won't
1:48:31see him going to the field which is not
1:48:34an uncommon thing for the ops guys to
1:48:36like just go straight to the field like
1:48:38it happens like typically they go to the
1:48:40office i would say like
1:48:43three or four days a week but there are
1:48:44days where him and his other team
1:48:47members are not there or like i'll get
1:48:49in there and some days the the cafeteria
1:48:51is packed and they're all there and
1:48:52other days they get in there and there's
1:48:53only like three or four of them so it
1:48:54didn't cause you any concern that he
1:48:56said no i'm going to the field on monday
1:48:58i won't see you that wasn't no that's
1:49:00happened before yeah i mean it wasn't
1:49:02something i mean and it's not just him
1:49:04it's like that whole team like you can
1:49:05just tell when they've got like a lot
1:49:06going on because i'll walk in and
1:49:08they'll be like
1:49:09as opposed to like six or seven do you
1:49:11know what he did sunday during the day
1:49:13um
1:49:16i don't know what i did on sunday during
1:49:18the day
1:49:19i am so tired let me just think about
1:49:21this daniel came over friday i hung out
1:49:23with him saturday
1:49:25and then sunday
1:49:30when did jim come in
1:49:32monday
1:49:35tim got here monday
1:49:38what did i do on sunday
1:49:40i am like drawing a blank i'm really
1:49:42tired
1:49:43i don't know can i get back to you on
1:49:45that
1:49:46did you guys have any conversations on
1:49:48saturday night during your meal what he
1:49:50might be doing on sunday
1:49:52i'm sure we did i don't know why i'm
1:49:54drawing the blade because i haven't
1:49:55slept if i
1:49:57say that his he may have uh done
1:50:00something with his children with that
1:50:01reference oh yes your memory he went to
1:50:03a birthday party yeah
1:50:05um did you know whose house he was going
1:50:06to nope but i know that they had a water
1:50:09balloon fight
1:50:11okay
1:50:12he had one or his children his children
1:50:14did he said he used to get really
1:50:16annoyed he said he got like really
1:50:17interactive with his kids he's like some
1:50:18of the adults don't really spend a lot
1:50:19of time playing with the kids but i went
1:50:21to the museum on what day saturday or
1:50:23sunday okay that's right so this one was
1:50:25like was i hanging out with you god
1:50:28uh very memorable event huh
1:50:31me and him and my my
1:50:33stepmother my sister went to uh the
1:50:36museum and that's right
1:50:38uh the denver museum of nature and
1:50:40science and they went to brunch prior to
1:50:42that and i skipped brunch
1:50:44um
1:50:46and i went to the gym you shouldn't know
1:50:47that was good i had to do chordae that
1:50:50was the last time i worked out actually
1:50:51um that's what we did on that okay yeah
1:50:54so coordinate and then we went to the
1:50:55museum and then
1:50:59um
1:51:01when did you did he tell you about the
1:51:04water balloon flight on sunday evening
1:51:06during your conversation on the phone i
1:51:08think so okay
1:51:10so you don't know whose house he went to
1:51:12on sunday
1:51:13um but you knew it was for a child's
1:51:15birthday yeah and he told me about that
1:51:17in advance early so i don't know if it
1:51:19was saturday that he had told me that he
1:51:20was gonna go that birthday or like
1:51:22friday
1:51:23i just remember he was like i gotta go
1:51:25this birthday party okay with my kids um
1:51:28any other conversation that makes sense
1:51:30i mean honestly at this point
1:51:33i'm really tired so i know there are
1:51:35certain things that i need to tell you
1:51:36guys that we'll get to as these days
1:51:37progress um
1:51:40but
1:51:41in all honesty if it doesn't stand out
1:51:43to me now today probably wasn't relevant
1:51:46what about that nine o'clock thing you
1:51:47were telling me on monday
1:51:49oh what he told me
1:51:52oh yeah well we'll get there we'll get
1:51:54there we're slowing down so we're on
1:51:55sunday
1:51:56we're we're gonna get we're gonna get
1:51:57something
1:51:58we're gonna get there to monday we're
1:52:00getting there
1:52:01so sunday night or sunday during the day
1:52:04you had your own personal
1:52:05um
1:52:07stuff going on
1:52:08with your family
1:52:10you never see him on sunday is that
1:52:12accurate no i didn't see what did i do
1:52:14the rest of the day i came home
1:52:17i think i might have just chilled at my
1:52:18house
1:52:19i don't remember i think i cleaned my
1:52:21house i don't know i didn't see him
1:52:23though okay
1:52:25yeah saturday was last time i saw him
1:52:28okay
1:52:29sunday you're at home
1:52:31you talk to him from we know you have a
1:52:33conversation in the late evening hours
1:52:35and then you go to sleep
1:52:37um on sunday night
1:52:40when's the next time you talk with chris
1:52:42probably
1:52:43monday morning do you know what what
1:52:45time no i mean so we used to like
1:52:47randomly text each other like throughout
1:52:49the day but we both get really busy so
1:52:52some days like i don't hear a lot from
1:52:53him and some days i don't text him until
1:52:56like two o'clock in the afternoon
1:52:57because i'm just like busy and i i
1:53:00remember i didn't hear a lot from him
1:53:02that day uh which was like that's not
1:53:04out of the normal for either one of us
1:53:07um during the day um
1:53:09but at one point i do remember he like
1:53:11texts me and he's like oh it's been a
1:53:12really busy day and then like said some
1:53:14other stuff which i'm sure you will find
1:53:16in my text what he said i don't know it
1:53:18wasn't obviously anything that was like
1:53:21alerting to me
1:53:22that's what i'm saying like at this
1:53:23point like i remember really key things
1:53:25but if it's like a conversation that i'm
1:53:27like i don't remember exactly what was
1:53:28discussed because it was probably just
1:53:30[ __ ] like just just talking to each
1:53:32other yeah small talk stuff yeah um
1:53:37but i remember he was busy that day and
1:53:38we didn't talk that much and then i
1:53:43i clocked out at three is what my time
1:53:45card says that's what i was showing um
1:53:48mark the other day
1:53:50and
1:53:51i got home
1:53:52to go meet my buddy one of my good
1:53:54friends was coming over my house and he
1:53:57actually has a key to my house so he was
1:53:59actually there when i got there
1:54:01and
1:54:02my friend jim
1:54:04um and so jim came over
1:54:07and
1:54:09i got home he was there he had like just
1:54:12walked in the door
1:54:13and um
1:54:16i remember like briefly after he got
1:54:18there i checked my texts i mean briefly
1:54:21after i met up with jim i like glance at
1:54:23my texts
1:54:25and chris said something about like
1:54:28my family's not home
1:54:30or like my wife and kids aren't home
1:54:33like something to that effect and i told
1:54:36mark
1:54:37because he asked me for a time and i
1:54:39don't have an exact time but i remember
1:54:41it was like right after i walked that
1:54:42was a text message yeah it's in a text
1:54:45and it's like it was like briefly after
1:54:47i walked in the door so based off how
1:54:48long it takes me to get home from work
1:54:50and when i clocked out it's probably
1:54:51about 3 45 pm
1:54:53um texts me and tells me that and like
1:54:56he knows when i get off of work too so
1:54:57he doesn't always bug me if i'm busy so
1:55:00i don't know what's up with that but
1:55:02that's when he that's when he sends that
1:55:05to me and
1:55:06so you're saying that he he would have
1:55:08known that you would have had your phone
1:55:09available to you and not been at work
1:55:11when he sent you that text message yes
1:55:13that's what i'm trying to say so looking
1:55:15back at it you think it was
1:55:17purposefully sent at that time
1:55:20i'm just asking your feeling on that yes
1:55:23and then he said call me when you can
1:55:25there was no other communication between
1:55:27you and him that morning on monday
1:55:29morning well there was but it was like
1:55:32random but nothing about this event no
1:55:34no no no no no about like my my wife's
1:55:37missing or
1:55:38my
1:55:39anything nothing okay nothing and you
1:55:42knew he wasn't coming to the office
1:55:44because he had told you that sunday
1:55:45night yeah and then he goes and so like
1:55:47they're only in the office for the
1:55:48morning like some days it's longer than
1:55:50others but i would say by a maximum of 7
1:55:5330 every single morning they're all gone
1:55:55and they don't come back unless they
1:55:56have like a meeting or something that
1:55:58they have to attend so like not seeing
1:55:59him for the rest of the day is not like
1:56:01an unnormal thing like but like i'm
1:56:03saying like we don't really the only
1:56:05reason we interact was kind of like by
1:56:06an off chance thing like i don't work
1:56:09with him
1:56:10um so
1:56:12he
1:56:12uh yeah we talked like randomly
1:56:15throughout the day but it was really
1:56:16sporadic and he seemed pretty busy so we
1:56:18didn't talk too much like i said didn't
1:56:20put too much thought into it it happens
1:56:21all the time um wait until about 3 45
1:56:24then sent that text to me and yes he
1:56:26does know that i will be home at that
1:56:28point
1:56:29or getting home would you give mark
1:56:31jim's information
1:56:34no i would really like not like to
1:56:36involve him in this he does not know
1:56:38about this he didn't he was not
1:56:41like he doesn't know any of this is
1:56:43occurring okay like i was like so he
1:56:45knows certainly through the media
1:56:48that something's occurred yeah he's like
1:56:50chris
1:56:51he's probably he's no idea he doesn't
1:56:52know who chris is like he's not i do not
1:56:55know so he's just a friend of yours yes
1:56:57um
1:56:59he was coming to your apartment
1:57:01and
1:57:02doesn't know anything about chris does
1:57:04he know anything about chris
1:57:06nothing absolutely we've known jim for
1:57:09yeah
1:57:10years and years you're not dating him or
1:57:12anything like that no he's like one of
1:57:14my very good friends like my dad knows
1:57:16him he's a great guy he just he
1:57:18he works out of state a lot so when he's
1:57:20in town um
1:57:22we hang out but when he's in town he's
1:57:24off of work to save time so i give him a
1:57:27key to my house one because i trust him
1:57:28and he's one of my best friends and two
1:57:32because uh
1:57:33sometimes he will just meet me there
1:57:35because i'll be like hey i'm getting off
1:57:36of work and then if i get stuck in
1:57:38traffic or something ends up like
1:57:39sitting outside of my apartment waiting
1:57:41for me to get off of work so i'm like
1:57:42here's the key and like my dog loves him
1:57:44and stuff so no he's not he's just
1:57:46family friends yes the only reason i
1:57:48asked and
1:57:49and
1:57:50i'm not really concerned uh about your
1:57:52location um i think we already have your
1:57:55cell phone records um at some point did
1:57:57mark ask you to supply
1:58:00uh
1:58:01did they ask for consent to get cell
1:58:03phone records that'll probably be done
1:58:04by warrant if we wanted what you just
1:58:06did nope
1:58:07what i'm talking about is your movement
1:58:09oh um by gps or by cell phone tower to
1:58:14show where you were obviously
1:58:18and i don't want to cause you concern we
1:58:20want to know where you were that day too
1:58:22you're dating a man who did some
1:58:24egregious stuff and we want to put we
1:58:26want to show that you were never near
1:58:27him that day
1:58:29period i mean you just contract no yeah
1:58:31i mean that that was something we will
1:58:33have to get a warrant for anyways the
1:58:35i'm just saying if if we asked for it
1:58:38would you have any objections to that
1:58:40you can have it right so
1:58:42um i'm a pretty boring person it sounds
1:58:45like you just went to work that day and
1:58:47then you came home and you're there at 3
1:58:4845 yeah like give or take like five
1:58:51minutes but yeah so 3 45
1:58:53i mean jim there yeah and so jim is a
1:58:57understand from an investigative point
1:58:59he could be a person who could say yeah
1:59:01is there a 345 i don't he doesn't know
1:59:02chris he doesn't know anything he could
1:59:05say with one phone call yeah she came in
1:59:06at 3 45. done totally do you know what
1:59:08i'm saying and i don't have to ask
1:59:10anything more than hi chris my name's
1:59:12kevin
1:59:14or jim and i'm not saying you have to
1:59:15give it to you
1:59:19if at some point i needed jim's info to
1:59:21let's say we couldn't find your phone
1:59:23records would you just have those i will
1:59:25give them to you would you tell me who
1:59:26jim was if i could you had to i don't
1:59:28really want to involve him in this so
1:59:29it's not fair to him that's not no if i
1:59:32do not have to do that that's fine
1:59:34um
1:59:36yes anyways chris was like call me
1:59:39and this is the 345 text yeah he sent me
1:59:42like a few there i think there was three
1:59:43of them and i don't remember what the
1:59:44other one said but something about like
1:59:46yeah my family's gone or i don't
1:59:48remember verbatim but call me when you
1:59:50can or how call me you have a chance
1:59:51something to that effect
1:59:53and so
1:59:54when you told me call me i was like
1:59:57kind of alerted where i was like okay
1:59:59what's going on you know um but first
2:00:02when he told me like his family was like
2:00:04not home
2:00:06that didn't really seem odd to me that
2:00:08his family wasn't home it was really
2:00:10vague i'm like okay like are they at the
2:00:13grocery store like
2:00:15elaborate and so you know and then but
2:00:17he says call me like it's like an
2:00:19emergency but then just says
2:00:21but they're not there and so i'm like
2:00:24really like floored by the well not like
2:00:26floored but just kind of like he says
2:00:28call me so i'm concerned and then he's
2:00:29really vague so i'm like
2:00:32maybe he just wants to talk to me i
2:00:34don't know i think it took me a little
2:00:35while to like really process the
2:00:37severity of the situation just because
2:00:39this is not something that you expect to
2:00:41see every day and the way that he talked
2:00:43to me made me believe that
2:00:45this is not what was going on at all
2:00:48okay so you make a phone call to him and
2:00:50you guys have a conversation i did i
2:00:53stepped outside this is 3 45. ish i mean
2:00:56well like i think i actually interacted
2:00:58with jim for like probably a good 15 or
2:01:0020 minutes i mean he's my guest he's in
2:01:02my house
2:01:03um so i don't think i called him right
2:01:05away but like i mean i'm trying to
2:01:07balance the fact that i have my friend
2:01:09here and then
2:01:10chris is saying that something needs to
2:01:12be addressed but to me it didn't sound
2:01:14like an emergency i mean it's all the
2:01:16time like people
2:01:17aren't home right now you know so it
2:01:19just
2:01:22it wasn't like oh my god i have to take
2:01:23this card didn't register as me no
2:01:25no i mean it just it was the way he said
2:01:28it and i was like okay
2:01:29so i um
2:01:31i remember hanging out with jim for a
2:01:33while and then i stepped outside and i
2:01:35made a call like out on my back patio
2:01:38and i called him
2:01:39and answered the phone
2:01:42and then he texted me back
2:01:44oh no did he answer the phone i don't
2:01:46remember i think he missed my call and
2:01:47then he called me back
2:01:50or he just answered either way it was a
2:01:52very short talk to him where he was just
2:01:54like i have to go
2:01:57the cops are here and i don't remember
2:01:58if he said that on the phone
2:02:01or over text i don't even
2:02:06yeah i mean you guys will figure it out
2:02:08the cops
2:02:09the cops are here and i'm just like all
2:02:11right
2:02:12and then
2:02:15i remember we were like ended like we
2:02:17were texting but i was like hanging out
2:02:18with my company so it wasn't like a
2:02:20non-stop text it was just kind of like i
2:02:22would check my phone every once in a
2:02:24while and we would communicate with each
2:02:25other
2:02:26and he was just saying like they weren't
2:02:28there and that her friend nikki was
2:02:31there and that her friend nikki
2:02:35had called the cops
2:02:37and i'm like why would this girl call
2:02:39the cops and like
2:02:42i honestly do not remember the order of
2:02:44operations on all of this but i'm pretty
2:02:47sure the majority of our conversation
2:02:50that night until my friend jim left the
2:02:52house which was probably pretty late i
2:02:54don't even know what time like 9 or 10
2:02:56was all via text
2:02:58so you should have this via text like i
2:03:00don't think we started talking again on
2:03:02the phone until
2:03:04like after my company left
2:03:06um
2:03:08and he was like
2:03:12uh i don't know he just started like
2:03:15giving me details about stuff and i
2:03:17don't remember what order but he was
2:03:18saying like nikki was really upset and
2:03:21that the cops were there and that they
2:03:22were like searching the house and i was
2:03:24just like what you know like what why
2:03:27and he was telling me that
2:03:28um
2:03:30they had like had a disagreement or
2:03:32something like that and then
2:03:34um
2:03:36he told me like she was gonna go to a
2:03:37friend's house
2:03:39and i was like okay well
2:03:41maybe she left you know maybe she just
2:03:44like went to her friends and then i
2:03:46think he i don't remember but i think he
2:03:48was the one that told me that
2:03:50her cell phone and her purse were still
2:03:52there i think he told me that he told
2:03:54you her cell phone and purse were still
2:03:55there i think he did i don't remember
2:03:57what's the significance of that
2:04:00in your mind at that time
2:04:03at that point i thought
2:04:05this woman was really trying to get out
2:04:07of this house okay
2:04:09that's what i thought because he said
2:04:10that they'd had a disagreement and i was
2:04:12just like okay well i mean i leave my
2:04:14cell phone at home he says disagreement
2:04:16what did he tell you what it was about
2:04:19or not at that point not at that point
2:04:21so um again like you guys are going to
2:04:23have to check these texts because it's
2:04:25all like
2:04:26my brain that's okay mashed potato right
2:04:28now
2:04:29um
2:04:30but i remember him saying that and i'm
2:04:31just thinking like well maybe she was in
2:04:34a rush you know like maybe she was just
2:04:36like i'm going to my friends i'm leaving
2:04:37my cell phone here because i don't want
2:04:38you calling me i don't want anyone else
2:04:40call me i mean there are days where like
2:04:42when i'm outside of work i will just
2:04:44shut my phone off i just do it and it's
2:04:46like my way of getting peace so to me
2:04:49that
2:04:50i mean like it was weird that she it
2:04:51wasn't even that weird to me that she
2:04:52left her phone just because
2:04:54i leave my phone but it was weird to me
2:04:56that she left her purse
2:04:57but knowing the fact that that girl was
2:04:59like always on her phone
2:05:02then yeah i guess that is kind of odd
2:05:03but she lived on her phone pretty much
2:05:06is my understanding of her and a phone
2:05:08so
2:05:10i don't know if you knew that i did
2:05:12until prior to the media stuff or just
2:05:14from chris
2:05:16so did that so did that strike you as
2:05:18odd but you're thinking maybe she just
2:05:20left i just thought she needed to like
2:05:22get away from the situation i mean that
2:05:24didn't seem that awkward to me that a
2:05:26couple that is going through separation
2:05:29would be like
2:05:32were i need to leave i just need some
2:05:35space like it didn't even like process i
2:05:38was like okay like give her some space
2:05:40you know and um
2:05:42on that note too um when he was in we're
2:05:45going to jump back for just a second
2:05:46okay i had a thought so when i he was
2:05:49coming back from north carolina that was
2:05:50when he officially told me we're gonna
2:05:52get a divorce and we're gonna put the
2:05:53house up for sale like he told me they
2:05:54were separating and they were like gonna
2:05:57put the house up for sale but they
2:05:58hadn't done it yet and then when he got
2:06:00back from north carolina that was when
2:06:01he was like it was like a sealed deal
2:06:03okay um and the reason that is of
2:06:05significance is because at some point
2:06:07over the weekend i don't remember when
2:06:09he told me that they were putting the
2:06:11house up i don't know if it was there
2:06:12putting it up on monday like the day
2:06:15they went missing
2:06:16or if it was that they were calling the
2:06:19realtor to verify some stuff so they
2:06:21could put it up that week like i don't i
2:06:22don't quite remember i just remember
2:06:24like the house was supposed to be like
2:06:26on the market like that week
2:06:29did he name a realtor ever yeah he
2:06:31didn't i don't remember her name it was
2:06:32a female okay and i don't remember her
2:06:34name like at all i was trying to think
2:06:36of that for you guys not too long ago
2:06:38you got the company no he never gave me
2:06:40that he like gave me her name and he's
2:06:42it was the same name twice he gave it to
2:06:43me once when he was in north carolina
2:06:44and then once
2:06:46the other time because i remember asking
2:06:47i was like who's that because he was
2:06:48like he's like
2:06:50i'm gonna have to have her call
2:06:52so-and-so today and make sure
2:06:53everything's still good to go and i was
2:06:54like who's that he's like the realer
2:06:56it's like oh
2:07:06it's not that critical
2:07:07um
2:07:08that person may come forward to us
2:07:09anyways
2:07:12perhaps so don't worry about it let's go
2:07:14back to the phone calls on monday
2:07:16afternoon
2:07:17yeah so
2:07:18um
2:07:20so he's like texting me a lot of this
2:07:22information and i'm starting to kind of
2:07:23freak out and it's not like i'm freaked
2:07:25out like
2:07:26oh she got murdered i mean
2:07:28that is not what i thought it's like
2:07:30okay like the way i looked at this
2:07:32like
2:07:33apparently his wife had been gone since
2:07:35midday was when she got like reported
2:07:38missing i didn't know that like he's the
2:07:41way i looked at this it was i got home
2:07:43from work just now i mean he didn't say
2:07:45that but i interpreted i just got home
2:07:47from work
2:07:51and my family is not here so
2:07:54when we're texting for like a few hours
2:07:57like the cop thing was kind of weird but
2:07:59he's like nikki insisted they call the
2:08:00cops nikki insisted they call the cops
2:08:02and i'm like
2:08:04okay you know and i'm just trying to
2:08:06figure out like what role does this
2:08:07woman play in this situation like is she
2:08:10did you know who she was no i don't know
2:08:12any of his people um
2:08:15like this has been pretty like tight
2:08:16wrap for a while which is probably a
2:08:18really good thing um
2:08:20but anyways um i didn't know like who
2:08:25she was and so um
2:08:28like i started asking him i was like
2:08:30well where do you think your wife is at
2:08:31and he's like he's like i think she'll
2:08:34be back tonight like i think she's like
2:08:35out with somebody
2:08:37and he was telling me that they had a
2:08:39disagreement so i was like well
2:08:42i remember telling him i was like
2:08:46you
2:08:48should make sure that
2:08:52you have a oh um wait a minute
2:08:55no no so
2:08:57all that happened and then
2:08:59it starts getting kind of laid out
2:09:02and i remember we talked for text for a
2:09:06while and part of this conversation and
2:09:07then it moved to the phone
2:09:09um
2:09:10i remember telling him because he was
2:09:12like i think she'll just be back
2:09:13tomorrow i think she's just gonna be
2:09:15gone for the night like with a friend
2:09:17you know did i name the friend
2:09:19no
2:09:20he didn't and like i
2:09:22well and because i i don't think he made
2:09:24it sound like he didn't know like what
2:09:26friends house she would be at
2:09:28and i remember talking to him and i was
2:09:29like
2:09:30well maybe it's that nikki girl and he's
2:09:33like well nikki called the cops so why
2:09:35would she be at nikki's house i'm like i
2:09:36don't know kind of throws her off the
2:09:38trail where she's at you know and it's
2:09:39like it sounds kind of weird but it's
2:09:41like i he really made this sound like
2:09:43this woman was just like upset left the
2:09:46house
2:09:47and that was probably what he thought
2:09:49happened to her and so i i didn't really
2:09:51put too much like did he tell you the
2:09:53kids were missing as well yes i knew i
2:09:56mean which made sense to me because i
2:09:57was like well if you were at work all
2:09:58day i mean he didn't tell me he got home
2:10:00early he didn't say that to me so
2:10:03i mean it made sense like if she's gonna
2:10:05leave
2:10:07there you should probably go with her um
2:10:10and and so
2:10:12i don't know i wish i feel like i wish i
2:10:14should have like processed all of this
2:10:16earlier but i just don't feel like
2:10:18when one of my friends is gone i'm like
2:10:20oh my god they got murdered we should
2:10:22address this like i haven't heard from
2:10:24not a typical thought when somebody just
2:10:26checks out for a day no
2:10:29so it got late at night and like i
2:10:30remember telling him i was like he's
2:10:32like i think she'll be back tomorrow and
2:10:34he was gonna go into work and i told him
2:10:36not to i was like you need to stay home
2:10:38and you need to help the cops i'm like
2:10:40and you need to wait for her to come
2:10:42back and he's like telling me like well
2:10:44what if like she comes back and she sees
2:10:46my truck and i was like you know what i
2:10:48would do i was like i would ask one of
2:10:49your good friends who's off of work
2:10:50tomorrow to come over this house and
2:10:52hang out with you while you're here i
2:10:54was like go park your truck down the
2:10:56street i was like so she's upset at you
2:10:58and she wants to come back i was like
2:11:00but she doesn't want to be here if
2:11:01you're here maybe i was like if she
2:11:03comes back
2:11:04i was like
2:11:05and she doesn't see your truck maybe
2:11:07she'd be more willing to come in the
2:11:08house i'm like you know i'm like but
2:11:10don't be alone with her i was like
2:11:12because if she's upset enough to leave
2:11:14i was like you don't know what kind of
2:11:16confrontation you're gonna have when you
2:11:17get back in the house and i was like so
2:11:19that's why you should have a friend
2:11:20there so that you're not alone with her
2:11:22and i was like and for some reason you
2:11:24are alone with her i told him i was like
2:11:26i really thought she just left i did it
2:11:28was like get your phone
2:11:30put it on video and put it in your
2:11:32pocket and i was like and just zip it up
2:11:34and he's like why and i told him i was
2:11:36like because you can voice record i was
2:11:37like so if she comes home i was like and
2:11:39you two
2:11:41are still like you know if there's some
2:11:44choice words being said because you guys
2:11:45obviously
2:11:47got into like
2:11:48something that's you know
2:11:50did he ever articulate what their
2:11:52argument was
2:11:53and i will get there but you know i told
2:11:55him like
2:11:57just be prepared you know because at
2:11:59this point like it wasn't like i was
2:12:00like trying to make her to be
2:12:03a bad person it was just like i didn't
2:12:05know what was going on i assumed that
2:12:07she had left so i was like when you get
2:12:09back because i knew that they were going
2:12:10through a divorce it was like just cover
2:12:13your bases you know try not to be alone
2:12:15and if you are just record what you guys
2:12:16are talking about so like at the end of
2:12:18the day like nothing bad happens to you
2:12:21you know and like
2:12:23that was kind of how i processed that
2:12:25whole situation and so um
2:12:29he was like all right
2:12:30and then uh
2:12:34she didn't come home that night that was
2:12:36monday night right yes
2:12:39monday night yes um and he told me um
2:12:44what he this is what he told me they
2:12:46talked about and i realized that this
2:12:47was like total [ __ ] and i think he's
2:12:49telling you guys a different story and i
2:12:51think the reason that he's telling me
2:12:52what he's telling i think the story he's
2:12:54telling you is probably slightly more
2:12:55accurate than the one he told me on this
2:12:57case and the reason is because i think
2:12:59he was trying to save his ass with the
2:13:01fact
2:13:03that she's pregnant
2:13:05so he told me
2:13:08that
2:13:09they
2:13:10that she had
2:13:14asked him to wake her up
2:13:17before he left for work
2:13:19on monday morning
2:13:22and so i don't know if she did that on a
2:13:23text or how it was supposedly
2:13:25communicated
2:13:29but he said that he went to get her up
2:13:32which i also found weird because like
2:13:34she's still sleeping when he leaves
2:13:35because she gets up with the kids and
2:13:37they get up shortly after that but like
2:13:39it's just him in the mornings you know
2:13:41and so she will he supposedly he said
2:13:43that she woke up
2:13:45and
2:13:47those two kind of just like
2:13:49gotten a disagreement and i don't know
2:13:51what all was said but he was like she
2:13:52was being pretty mean
2:13:54and then he said uh
2:13:56she told me that she's pregnant and
2:14:00she told me that the kid is not mine
2:14:03that is what he told me
2:14:05so she's pregnant the kid's not mine and
2:14:08that's just like he's playing he didn't
2:14:09know she was pregnant until that morning
2:14:12yep and that it's not it she had an
2:14:15affair with somebody else yes and this
2:14:17is before i knew she was 15 weeks
2:14:19pregnant okay like all the stuff on
2:14:20monday that i read from my recollection
2:14:24because i didn't find out she was
2:14:25pregnant until tuesday so anything that
2:14:27got posted on monday did not
2:14:29emphasize the fact that she like had a
2:14:31baby on board um so then
2:14:34um let me ask you something you said
2:14:36that he usually gets up in the morning
2:14:38and just it's him and she gets up and
2:14:39takes care of the kids is that the
2:14:41routine that you know for them
2:14:44um or do you know him to get up and like
2:14:46prepare meals prior to him leaving the
2:14:49home well he gets up and he like goes to
2:14:51the gym and he like i mean works on his
2:14:53basement and like makes breakfast and i
2:14:55don't know does he make breakfast for
2:14:56himself or does he make breakfast for
2:14:58his children
2:14:59i don't know i think i don't know
2:15:01they're still sleeping at that point
2:15:02like all i know is he at one point and
2:15:04sometime in this whole thing he told me
2:15:07that they usually get up at like 6 30
2:15:09and she gets she gets them ready and
2:15:10takes him to school and like does all
2:15:12the morning stuff with them as far as i
2:15:13know and then in the afternoons when he
2:15:15gets home from work he kind of does more
2:15:16of the afternoon stuff okay so it's kind
2:15:18of like a tag team operation that they
2:15:20have going on but i think she does more
2:15:21in the am and he does more than the
2:15:22piano is kind of how i process that but
2:15:25i don't know okay so she's mean to him
2:15:28and then throws this out
2:15:30yes she's pregnant from another and i
2:15:32said do you believe her and he was just
2:15:35like
2:15:36he said something about like oh yeah
2:15:38like she's
2:15:39she kind of looked like she was showing
2:15:41when we were in north carolina but i
2:15:43wasn't sure and i'm like so you think
2:15:45she's pregnant and he's like yeah and i
2:15:47was like do you think she's like having
2:15:49an affair and he's like i think she said
2:15:50that out of spite and he's like and i
2:15:53was like okay
2:15:55and then and again like i think he's
2:15:57just saying all this to me to try to
2:15:59cover his tracks with me like i think i
2:16:02don't know what he told you guys but i
2:16:03bet it's probably very different and i
2:16:05think that what he said to me it it was
2:16:07like directed towards me like this whole
2:16:09[ __ ] little box lie that he had
2:16:11right there was like the lie did he say
2:16:14when the argument started
2:16:16nope
2:16:18in the morning he said he woke her up in
2:16:20the morning okay did he say when she
2:16:22came home
2:16:23did he ever let you know that
2:16:25uh i think he i want to say he said
2:16:27around like two but i don't know okay
2:16:29and then he woke her
2:16:31for what purpose
2:16:33because she asked him to
2:16:34okay so i was under the impression that
2:16:37he was asleep i'm assuming this is how
2:16:39it like went and what he was trying to
2:16:41tell me is that he was asleep
2:16:42by the time she got home and she sent
2:16:44him a text and said wake me up before
2:16:46you leave and then he woke her up and
2:16:48they got an argument and then he went to
2:16:50work okay
2:16:52that was hard and the context of that
2:16:53argument again was just the
2:16:55she's pregnant and is there anything
2:16:57else that he shared with he did not
2:16:58elaborate on it and i didn't ask
2:17:01i didn't ask
2:17:03what were you thinking at that time
2:17:06uh this was like
2:17:09on monday i don't i mean i again at that
2:17:11point i was like i still thought she
2:17:13left i mean this was all on monday like
2:17:15i legitimately thought this woman left
2:17:17the premises with her kids and just
2:17:18wanted nothing to do with him for like
2:17:2024 hours so his story was believable
2:17:22that she was
2:17:24pregnant from another man and maybe she
2:17:25took off for that guy or
2:17:28he i mean he said several times like i
2:17:30think she just said that out of spite
2:17:32okay like he thought she was with one of
2:17:34her friends
2:17:36so he's held true to that story oh she's
2:17:38she's just leaving and she's with a
2:17:39friend that was kind of what he thought
2:17:41and that's kind of what he had me
2:17:43believing and at the time i wasn't
2:17:44really alarmed because it'd been like
2:17:46a half a day sure
2:17:48um and so then
2:17:51tuesday rolled around
2:17:53and
2:17:54did you see him at all on monday you
2:17:56said you didn't right right i did not
2:17:58see him and i went to work did he ever
2:18:00try to convince you to come see him or
2:18:02say he wanted to come to your house no
2:18:05no no we were supposed to go look pick
2:18:07out apartments to go look at on
2:18:09wednesday so yesterday um
2:18:12but uh that obviously right so on monday
2:18:16you never he never tried to be
2:18:17convincing to get you to come up to see
2:18:19him no no no no no no no no no no no not
2:18:22that i'm aware of i don't think so
2:18:23because he i had my buddy jim was over
2:18:25monday and tuesday and he knew
2:18:27jim was over monday and tuesday and
2:18:28that's why we were going to hang out on
2:18:30wednesday okay
2:18:31um so no he didn't ask me um
2:18:34so
2:18:36tuesday rolled around
2:18:38and she still wasn't around this is when
2:18:40i started getting kind of sick like my
2:18:42friend jim was sick on monday when he
2:18:44came up and
2:18:45i don't know i just started feeling like
2:18:47crap as it was and then um
2:18:51i was just kind of having a hard time
2:18:52focusing and like thinking about what
2:18:53was going on because and i'd asked him a
2:18:55few times i'm like where's your family
2:18:57chris like where's your family
2:18:59you know and he would tell me like i
2:19:01don't know or i want him home like
2:19:03i asked like several times so i think i
2:19:06got different responses but each time
2:19:07like he didn't know where they were you
2:19:09know what i'm like she's still not home
2:19:10and he's like no and oh and i had also
2:19:13asked him to like
2:19:15um he said he had a friend dave named
2:19:17that was a cop which i also find
2:19:19convenient that there's another day of
2:19:21working in this case there's a cop
2:19:23um but he would i was like well dave's
2:19:26off why don't you just have him like
2:19:27post up outside your house too and see
2:19:29if she shows up
2:19:31you know and he told me on tuesday
2:19:33morning he was like i called dave and
2:19:35asked him to sit outside my house and
2:19:37he's gonna do it and he's like and then
2:19:38my friend nick is coming over later on
2:19:40this afternoon and i was like okay did
2:19:42you ever hear nick's name before i've
2:19:44actually heard that name a few times
2:19:46like around him like there's certainly i
2:19:48never heard dave before
2:19:49dave was new but i've heard the name
2:19:51nick a lot so i don't know if that's
2:19:53like real or what but if i was to guess
2:19:55like friends that he like legitimately
2:19:58has i would assume that he was one of
2:20:00them
2:20:01um but yeah because i know he's told me
2:20:04before like when we first started
2:20:06hanging out that nick lived kind of in
2:20:08the area and he's like um he's like he
2:20:11actually goes he's a trail runner and
2:20:13he's like he runs at east lake number
2:20:15three
2:20:16so he lives in your area kind of okay
2:20:18and i remember him saying that to me
2:20:20once he's like you know that park that
2:20:21we like hung out at i was like yeah he's
2:20:23like my buddy runs over there we should
2:20:24not go to that park anymore and i was
2:20:26like okay
2:20:27um
2:20:28that's cool
2:20:30and uh
2:20:33anyways
2:20:36tuesday morning tuesday morning
2:20:39we're almost done
2:20:40i know i'm just i'm just i'm trying to
2:20:42just keep it all together here for you
2:20:43guys um tuesday morning
2:20:46oh so he said dave was gonna stay
2:20:48outside his house and nick was gonna
2:20:49come over that afternoon i was like all
2:20:51right
2:20:52and then um
2:20:55i don't
2:20:56i think most of texting throughout that
2:20:57day was kind of like have you heard
2:20:59anything like what's going on it was
2:21:01kind of like me checking up on him
2:21:03um and i don't remember everything but
2:21:05it wasn't it i didn't even make it
2:21:07through the entire workday like i was
2:21:08feeling really really sick um like in
2:21:11general and then i
2:21:15decided on my lunch break to get on the
2:21:18internet and look at what was going on
2:21:21with all the reports and i saw a report
2:21:24that was like this woman who's 15 weeks
2:21:28pregnant and her two daughters are
2:21:30missing and i was like
2:21:33whoa
2:21:35what and i was just like so floored and
2:21:38i read a couple other articles just to
2:21:40make sure that you know all the
2:21:42newspapers are and like just double
2:21:44check like am i really reading this
2:21:45right and i'm like okay and she had told
2:21:48me previously like
2:21:50she says she's pregnant with another
2:21:52man's kid but he'd said like
2:21:55he could kind of tell in in north
2:21:57carolina but that girl is like obviously
2:22:01pregnant i mean in her photos i mean
2:22:0415 weeks that's like four months that's
2:22:06pretty far along
2:22:07and so it's it's like how would you not
2:22:09know if she's showing like you totally
2:22:11know she's showing
2:22:12and so
2:22:14oh my god i got so sick i was just like
2:22:16i need to go i just like packed my stuff
2:22:19and i left work and i went home
2:22:23and uh
2:22:24i remember i told jim that i was gonna
2:22:26get home early and he wanted to come
2:22:28over right away and i was just like
2:22:30i just needed some time to like process
2:22:32what was going on but i did tell him i
2:22:34was like you can come over earlier than
2:22:35you did yesterday because he didn't want
2:22:36to wait in traffic that was the thing
2:22:38he's like save me some time so i don't
2:22:40remember what time he got there um
2:22:43i probably still have that text because
2:22:45i don't have any reason to delete those
2:22:48um
2:22:48but he so he came over a little early
2:22:50but i did have like a gap of time in
2:22:53there i don't know how long it was i bet
2:22:54it was like after i got from the time i
2:22:56got home at the time jim got there but
2:22:58it was probably like i don't know hour
2:22:59and a half maybe somewhere around there
2:23:01um
2:23:04and uh
2:23:06i remember talking to chris during this
2:23:09time and it was like
2:23:11all text i did not talk to him on the
2:23:13phone at all on tuesday
2:23:15and i was pretty upset where i was just
2:23:18like
2:23:18you know i was going back and forth like
2:23:20where's your family this and this and
2:23:21this but i'm like
2:23:23she's pregnant you know and this and
2:23:26he's like the baby's not mine the baby's
2:23:29not mine and i'm just
2:23:30like you told me yesterday that you
2:23:34think
2:23:35that when she said that she cheated on
2:23:37you she did it out of spite and he was
2:23:39like yeah and i'm like so then it's your
2:23:41kid
2:23:42and he kept denying it
2:23:45and then
2:23:46like he started like kind of worrying
2:23:48about us he'd just be like well
2:23:51does this ruin everything with us this
2:23:52and this and this and i'm like no i'm
2:23:54like and i'm like just trying to like
2:23:57his situation is so much more important
2:23:58right now than like our situation but
2:24:00his main concern is you and him
2:24:02kind of sort of i mean and i keep like
2:24:04asking him like i'm like and i told him
2:24:07numerous times which is also in the text
2:24:09that you guys will pull where i'm just
2:24:10like you need to focus
2:24:12on finding your kids
2:24:14and your wife right now and i was like
2:24:16and you need to focus on finding all
2:24:17three of your kids and i like kept like
2:24:20emphasizing to him like he had three
2:24:22kids you know and like i wasn't even
2:24:24like mad about it i was just like you
2:24:26need to find your family can you ever go
2:24:28look for them that you know of
2:24:30uh i don't know i don't think so that
2:24:32like doesn't even like ring a bell to me
2:24:34so i don't think so okay um
2:24:39but uh
2:24:40oh and i forgot something else that's
2:24:42really important i will add it in there
2:24:43too but let me just finish this thought
2:24:44so then um
2:24:47tuesday what are we talking about oh
2:24:49yeah so i kept telling them i was like
2:24:50chris i know it's yours it's okay i was
2:24:53like go find your family you know and
2:24:55it's like was that was i heard yes but
2:24:58at the time i realized like his
2:24:59situation
2:25:01with what he had going on was like way
2:25:02more important than like our situation
2:25:05and so that's why i was just like
2:25:08like i i confronted about it and then i
2:25:10was like you need to go find them and
2:25:13like we talked about it for a little
2:25:14while and then i was just like
2:25:17i don't remember exactly how i went but
2:25:19something along the lines so i was like
2:25:20why can't you just be honest with me i
2:25:22was like stop
2:25:23lying to me like
2:25:25did you have an inclination you've
2:25:27talked to this man a lot
2:25:30and during this tuesday wednesday
2:25:32conversation did you feel like he was
2:25:35bullshitting you
2:25:36a little bit kind of yeah i mean because
2:25:39he was like
2:25:42not monday monday i did not but tuesday
2:25:46yeah that's when it all started to click
2:25:48i was like oh my goodness because he was
2:25:50like well
2:25:54like he just didn't seem as like
2:25:57concerned as he should be and he was
2:25:59like super worried about [ __ ] with us
2:26:01and i'm just like
2:26:02so concerned about his family and overly
2:26:04concerned about your relationship yes
2:26:06okay and i kept like trying to put it on
2:26:08the back burner shame on me for bringing
2:26:10it up in the first place i was just
2:26:11really taken back like wait a minute
2:26:13she's 15 weeks like how would you not
2:26:15notice that like i was just like i was
2:26:17confused and i was also like is he lying
2:26:20to me and i kind of wanted to know
2:26:21because i realized that like there's a
2:26:23situation at hand here and i'm just like
2:26:24what is going on you know and for part
2:26:27of it it wasn't even like me trying to
2:26:28find out because i'm upset it was almost
2:26:30like me trying to find out because i'm
2:26:32like
2:26:33is there something else i'm missing here
2:26:35like i felt like there was like pieces
2:26:37to this puzzle that i didn't know
2:26:38existed that were like not in place and
2:26:40it was strange
2:26:41and so um
2:26:44anyways i told him i was like be honest
2:26:46with me i was like don't lie and i don't
2:26:48remember exactly how it went but i was
2:26:49like trying to emphasize like stop
2:26:51bullshitting me so he told me truth
2:26:53and he told me it was his and then he
2:26:55knew about it okay
2:26:57i was like okay
2:26:58and then he asked me again like did that
2:27:00ruin everything and i was like no it
2:27:03didn't and in the back of my head it's
2:27:05like yeah i'm done i'm not dealing with
2:27:07that don't lie to me but his situation
2:27:09is so critical right now that's like i'm
2:27:11not gonna like
2:27:12ruffle his mental feathers because
2:27:14they're already like really ruffled
2:27:16because of the situation so like out of
2:27:18respect for his mental health i just
2:27:20like
2:27:22dropped it and i just kept telling him
2:27:24like we're okay we're okay we're okay
2:27:26but how many times do you think he asked
2:27:27you
2:27:28during these phone calls
2:27:30oh it wasn't phone call this was text
2:27:32pardon me
2:27:33text tuesday
2:27:35how many times do you think he brought
2:27:37up
2:27:37your relationship
2:27:39and if you guys were okay probably like
2:27:41two or three times
2:27:42and how many times
2:27:44did he bring up concern for his children
2:27:47or his wife
2:27:48i think he brought it up a lot too i
2:27:50mean he kept telling me that he was like
2:27:51worried about them i mean it happened it
2:27:54wasn't like he was just like
2:27:56spaced out i mean he was definitely
2:27:59showing that too i was just surprised
2:28:01that he was like
2:28:02also showing it for me because at that
2:28:04moment if i had some crazy stuff going
2:28:06on with somebody in my family i would be
2:28:07putting all my relationship stuff on
2:28:09hold like look like baby i gotta deal
2:28:11with this someone in my family is
2:28:12missing when i find them we will talk
2:28:14and that would just be it but that's
2:28:15just me i mean that's how i would
2:28:17address the situation and that's kind of
2:28:18how i've been like gauging how i handled
2:28:22monday tuesday and wednesday is like
2:28:23what would i have done sure you know and
2:28:26and kind of like that's why like i
2:28:27didn't contact you guys on monday
2:28:29because i probably wouldn't have done
2:28:31that for one of my friends and not that
2:28:32i'm cold-hearted it's just like it just
2:28:37that's just not how me and my friends
2:28:39work so it didn't you know so there's
2:28:42extenuating circumstances that you
2:28:43wouldn't have known that caused her
2:28:45friends to be concerned just so you know
2:28:48there's nothing wrong with you for not
2:28:50going oh something's wrong and calling
2:28:52the police the people that provided the
2:28:54information to the police initially had
2:28:56way more information about her than you
2:28:58do
2:28:58so that's why they came forward so i can
2:29:01see it i can feel a little reservation
2:29:03that you're like why didn't i do
2:29:04something why you didn't know enough i
2:29:06think a normal person
2:29:08on monday a reasonable person is just
2:29:10going [ __ ] this woman's you know whacked
2:29:13out relationship with her husband she's
2:29:15got two kids now she's pregnant she just
2:29:17takes off so don't blame yourself for
2:29:19not making a phone call to the law
2:29:21enforcement or going to the pl you
2:29:23didn't know anything so
2:29:25i'm just trying to help you get past
2:29:26that don't worry about it
2:29:28it's not the the people that came to us
2:29:30had way more info than you did regarding
2:29:33what was happening with her life okay
2:29:35okay so don't get don't don't blame your
2:29:39beat yourself up over that please don't
2:29:41okay
2:29:43and then uh
2:29:45so tuesday
2:29:47after that conversation i told him
2:29:51i was like
2:29:53i told him to delete his tags because i
2:29:55knew he was like going crazy texting me
2:29:58and i didn't want any of his friends to
2:29:59see him texting me because they didn't i
2:30:02don't think they knew about me and
2:30:04nothing to do with you guys it was just
2:30:06like i mean you'll see them you know the
2:30:08secrecy of your relationship pretty much
2:30:11and i just like feel like he was like
2:30:12texting me so much openly and he had
2:30:15friends there that i was like i didn't
2:30:17want them to see that and so i was like
2:30:19trying to get him to slow down and then
2:30:21i told him to like
2:30:23um
2:30:25after he lied to me i was just kind of
2:30:27like i was done and i was trying to find
2:30:28a way to like get away from the
2:30:31situation
2:30:33without alarming him or panicking him so
2:30:36i told him like everything is all good
2:30:39i'm still here for you and i feel bad
2:30:41because like i lied to him but i mean i
2:30:44like just try to keep them calm and then
2:30:46i told them like
2:30:48contact me once they find your family
2:30:53and then that was tuesday that was
2:30:55tuesday
2:30:57and
2:30:58he sent me a text back saying something
2:31:00along the lines of like
2:31:02ah
2:31:03what did he say something like
2:31:05please just think of of oh and like i
2:31:08kept telling him i was scared i was
2:31:10really freaking scared in fact that's
2:31:12another thing i'm missing i'm so tired
2:31:14monday night like i called him back
2:31:17in the middle of the night because i
2:31:19could not sleep i could not sleep at all
2:31:22and i remember when i called him he
2:31:24sounded like he was sleeping and i was
2:31:25like how the hell can you sleep right
2:31:27now i think that's exactly what i said
2:31:29to him
2:31:30and he was just like i'm just kind of
2:31:32dozing off and on on the couch and i
2:31:34just remember thinking like i haven't
2:31:36shut my eyes yet and this is not even my
2:31:39family
2:31:40and
2:31:41so that happened on monday night um
2:31:44so then i was going somewhere with that
2:31:46that had to do with tuesday i forgot
2:31:47what it was i'm so sorry
2:31:49take take a breath and relax
2:31:51we're almost to wednesday and then we're
2:31:53out of here yes so then um
2:31:58yeah so then once he he lied to me i
2:32:00just really trying to like
2:32:02push him away and he was like just don't
2:32:05forget like the person that
2:32:07you knew me to be when you were with me
2:32:09or something like that and like
2:32:12was that was that strange it just kind
2:32:15of sounded almost like a farewell and
2:32:17like i didn't think it was too weird
2:32:19because i was like i think he realizes
2:32:21that i'm really upset that he lied to me
2:32:24and i think he's aware of the fact that
2:32:25i'm probably about to walk away from him
2:32:27so i think that was like his way of like
2:32:29saying goodbye
2:32:30so it didn't really seem strange in the
2:32:33context of
2:32:34what was going on
2:32:36between like the him and i part of stuff
2:32:39and then um and i kept asking him to
2:32:42like what did you do chris what did you
2:32:44do and he was like i didn't do anything
2:32:46and i'm like where's your family
2:32:48and like i asked him that i don't know
2:32:50if i started doing that on tuesday or if
2:32:52i started doing that on monday but i
2:32:54definitely i think it was tuesday
2:32:55because i don't really think i was that
2:32:57alarmed on monday
2:32:59and then um
2:33:02uh
2:33:04so that was supposed to be like our
2:33:05final sign off text
2:33:07and then jim got there at my house and i
2:33:10was hanging out with jim but i was still
2:33:12like in my head just kind of like
2:33:13stressed out and i remember i like
2:33:15walked out of the room with my bedroom
2:33:16and texted chris one more time and i
2:33:18told him i was like if you did something
2:33:21bad i was like you're going to ruin your
2:33:23life and i was like and if you did
2:33:25something bad it was like you're going
2:33:26to ruin my life and i was like and i
2:33:28promise you that
2:33:30and he responded back to me and he's
2:33:32like i didn't hurt my family nikki and
2:33:35that was like the last text that was the
2:33:37last time we ever talked and i never
2:33:39said another word to him after that that
2:33:40was tuesday that was tuesday and then he
2:33:43left me alone he gave me the space that
2:33:44i asked him he respected it and he
2:33:46didn't like
2:33:48mess with me was that a phone call where
2:33:50you said no that's all tuesday text too
2:33:53tuesday everything was sex i did not
2:33:55talk to that man on the phone at all
2:33:56that day i mean i don't think so i'm
2:33:58pretty sure it was all text
2:33:59um
2:34:01and then uh
2:34:03so at that time in your mind if you said
2:34:05that
2:34:06what what are you thinking
2:34:07what were you thinking that he maybe did
2:34:09something to his family yeah i started
2:34:11getting really scared what caused that
2:34:14the fact that he lied to me okay and
2:34:16that she still wasn't home and it was
2:34:17day two like i figure if you're upset
2:34:19for a day you leave for a day but you
2:34:20come back
2:34:22and she wasn't back and it was like
2:34:24midday
2:34:25and not only that but like
2:34:27she doesn't have her phone she doesn't
2:34:29have her her car she doesn't have the
2:34:31kids epipen she doesn't have any of that
2:34:33so what i'm thinking in my head is like
2:34:35for a night if you're really upset
2:34:38somebody comes pick one of your friends
2:34:39picks you up like
2:34:41okay
2:34:42but i can't explain that for two days
2:34:44like that just doesn't like logically
2:34:46process in my mind is something that any
2:34:48woman i know would do with the one night
2:34:49thing i know women that would do that
2:34:50but the two night thing no
2:34:53and so i'm like she's still not back and
2:34:55he just lied to me
2:34:56and
2:35:00it made me like i just started getting
2:35:01scared and i remember like telling him
2:35:03that throughout the whole day like i
2:35:04don't even know how many times i texted
2:35:06him then i wouldn't be surprised if it's
2:35:07like eight ten times i'm just like i'm
2:35:08scared i'm scared i'm scared and one of
2:35:11the last texts that i sent to him too i
2:35:12told him i said i'm scared because i
2:35:14feel like i don't know who you are
2:35:15anymore
2:35:18and his response to that
2:35:20i don't even remember to be honest with
2:35:22you i think that was like in that like
2:35:23sign off text that i sent to him okay
2:35:26um
2:35:28but i mean i was i was like kind of
2:35:30scared i was what i was really scared
2:35:32for was scared for his family's
2:35:33well-being because like i don't know
2:35:35where these people are at this point and
2:35:38it's scary i mean it's scary that she's
2:35:40gone
2:35:41but it's even more scary to me that
2:35:42these little girls are gone like that
2:35:45was the part that really freaked me out
2:35:46like if it was just her i'd be like well
2:35:48maybe she took off with somebody maybe
2:35:50she didn't i mean i don't know because
2:35:51she's a grown woman and she can make
2:35:53those choices
2:35:54were some of the scared
2:35:56was there fear in you that people were
2:35:58going to find out about your
2:35:58relationship too no i didn't even care
2:36:01about that point there was i was just
2:36:02like scared like of the situation it was
2:36:05like getting escalated and it was
2:36:06freaking me out and he was just like not
2:36:11he was strange so another thing so that
2:36:14was tuesday and that was it for tuesday
2:36:16but i forgot some stuff on monday that i
2:36:17didn't need to bring up to you guys so
2:36:18monday um
2:36:21when we were on the phone at one point
2:36:23he mentioned to me
2:36:25i can't even believe i have to say this
2:36:28she left her wedding ring here and i
2:36:30said something along the lines of
2:36:34does that mean you two are done and he
2:36:36was like
2:36:41oh my god
2:36:43he said how much do you think it's worth
2:36:46and i like remember hearing him say that
2:36:49and being like what the [ __ ]
2:36:52and i remember thinking to myself like i
2:36:53don't even know how to respond to this
2:36:55and so i was like i don't know upon it
2:36:57man and i was just like i was like upon
2:36:59jewelry all the time i was like upon
2:37:01jewelry a few times i was like it's not
2:37:02worth [ __ ] though and i was like so i
2:37:04don't know if you really want to do that
2:37:05and he's like no no
2:37:07i think i'm gonna get it appraised it's
2:37:09a nice rock and i was just like okay
2:37:12and it was like really awkward and that
2:37:15was on monday that was on monday night
2:37:18and
2:37:19that to me was like
2:37:22it was kind of strange and then the
2:37:24tuesday lying thing like i'm telling you
2:37:26it started like monday night him saying
2:37:28that that was why i couldn't sleep
2:37:30because he made the comment about the
2:37:31wedding ring okay and then
2:37:33tuesday her still not coming home and
2:37:35then him lying to me
2:37:37and i was just like
2:37:39oh my god oh my god like what if
2:37:41something happened and it was like
2:37:43really hard for me
2:37:44what does something happen what were you
2:37:46thinking like what if somebody took her
2:37:48like could he possibly hurt her and that
2:37:51was like the first time that i really i
2:37:53think
2:37:54genuinely considered
2:37:56did this man hurt his wife
2:37:59and
2:38:01it was like hard for me to grasp
2:38:04and uh i thought about it a lot and i
2:38:07i waited for the night because i wanted
2:38:08to see
2:38:10if she would come home and it was
2:38:11already pretty late and i accompanied
2:38:13and i was just like
2:38:14let me just see how this plays out
2:38:17and
2:38:18um
2:38:20my buddy jim left
2:38:23i don't know probably like nine or ten
2:38:25probably it's like the same time he
2:38:26always leaves and then um
2:38:31i couldn't sleep again it was really bad
2:38:34and i woke up in the morning and i saw
2:38:37the interview that he had
2:38:40with the newspapers
2:38:42and he just looked really different to
2:38:44me
2:38:45how so
2:38:46the light and his eyes is gone they're
2:38:49like a different color now
2:38:51it's like he has no soul
2:38:53i swear to god
2:38:54i saw it and i was just like look at his
2:38:56eyes i saw his mug shot
2:38:59they're not even the same color like
2:39:00when you guys retrieve the pictures that
2:39:02are on my phone look at his eyes then
2:39:04compared to now like it's the scariest
2:39:07[ __ ] i think i've ever seen in my life
2:39:08it freaked me out i was like that's not
2:39:10even the same man that i know and it was
2:39:13really uncomfortable
2:39:14um but anyways i saw that report
2:39:17in the morning
2:39:18and i was just to the point where i was
2:39:20just like all right like
2:39:23something happened this woman is missing
2:39:25whether it was him or someone else i
2:39:27know like a woman went missing not too
2:39:29long ago on longmont
2:39:31like i think it was like two months ago
2:39:32or something like that and you guys not
2:39:35you guys but somebody there called off
2:39:36the search on her i don't think they
2:39:37ever found her so i was like
2:39:39i don't know maybe that's connected
2:39:42maybe somebody came and got her maybe he
2:39:44did something i don't know but i knew
2:39:46like it was a problem
2:39:48and at this point i was like i'm in a
2:39:50very messy situation with this man
2:39:53and
2:39:54i don't know what to do
2:39:56and so i call my dad because he's like
2:39:59the only person that i trust with
2:40:00everything in the whole world and i was
2:40:01just like i have a problem and i told
2:40:04him everything and then i was like
2:40:07we just discussed it and it was like we
2:40:09need to go
2:40:11to cops
2:40:12definitely because
2:40:14i figured you guys would find me
2:40:16eventually but i was like i feel like
2:40:18they need to speak to me i feel like i'm
2:40:20a very important person for you guys to
2:40:21communicate
2:40:22and so you know and again i wish i had
2:40:25done it sooner but it just like it just
2:40:28kind of took the sequence of events of
2:40:30his lies and all of his [ __ ] falling
2:40:33apart for me to process that i needed to
2:40:35address the situation and so
2:40:37you know and the time and so
2:40:40that to me and another thing he lied to
2:40:42me on i caught him on monday night he
2:40:43was like
2:40:45oh it was right after the wedding ring
2:40:47thing he was talking about
2:40:50it might have been before one of the two
2:40:52but he was he was like talking about how
2:40:56um
2:40:58he like reflected on north carolina and
2:41:00he was talking about how he wanted the
2:41:02separation and all this stuff and i'm
2:41:04like wait a minute wait a minute wait a
2:41:05minute i thought
2:41:07you were the one trying to make peace
2:41:08with her
2:41:10and she's the one who didn't want it
2:41:11he's like no i wanted it and i was just
2:41:13like okay
2:41:15and another thing on monday night his
2:41:17breathing was like
2:41:20oh it was like his voice would crack
2:41:22sometimes but i didn't like
2:41:24condemn him for anything like that
2:41:27because i was like well yeah he's
2:41:28probably stressed the hell out his
2:41:29family's gone you know what i'm saying
2:41:31sure
2:41:32so
2:41:33i don't know so that happened and then
2:41:35um
2:41:37he never made any ambitions to you about
2:41:39anything that he had done nope
2:41:42he never said anything about
2:41:44doing or at any time
2:41:47not not just in these days but during
2:41:49your relationship did he ever say
2:41:51anything about hurting his wife his
2:41:52children
2:41:54and then on these conversations from
2:41:56monday to tuesday did he ever say that
2:42:00you know somebody did something to them
2:42:02or did he ever give uh um an excuse to
2:42:05you how this could have happened
2:42:08no i mean other than they just were
2:42:10going to a friend's house yeah or he was
2:42:12like yeah i think she's like with one of
2:42:13her friends she doesn't want to talk to
2:42:14me kind of thing but other than that no
2:42:16i mean like he told me like yeah she
2:42:18said she was with another man but i
2:42:19think it was out of spite like he never
2:42:21really like held that she was with
2:42:23another dude like she never was like
2:42:25yeah she's with some guy
2:42:27like she said it but i don't think she
2:42:29meant it it's kind of what he was like
2:42:31directing towards me but no he
2:42:36i think that's why i gave him the
2:42:37benefit of doubt so long like he's
2:42:39always been such a civil gentle man to
2:42:42me
2:42:43and he's always been pretty calm and
2:42:46like level-headed when he talks about
2:42:49did like the differences between him and
2:42:51his wife and i mean
2:42:53that's a sensitive subject and he never
2:42:56ever seemed like he was like aggressive
2:42:58about it i mean he was always just like
2:43:01chill and he never talked ill of his
2:43:03children he was always so bubbly about
2:43:06them like those were his babies so when
2:43:09all of this happened i was just like
2:43:11what the [ __ ]
2:43:13and
2:43:15so that brings me to the question real
2:43:16quick i mean you got i don't think
2:43:18anybody over the last six or eight weeks
2:43:19knows this dude better than you i really
2:43:21don't you guys probably spent more time
2:43:24together than anybody
2:43:26conversation whatever relationship
2:43:30what do you think
2:43:33what's the catalyst for this event do
2:43:35you have any have you had and i
2:43:37know it's a hard question but i want to
2:43:39get it out now we're here if there's a
2:43:41thought that you have
2:43:44that might lead us to understand a
2:43:46little bit why he might have done
2:43:47something like this
2:43:50like i said i don't i met chris on
2:43:53wednesday
2:43:55so
2:43:56i don't know chris
2:43:58not like you do
2:44:00um you know i've thought about this and
2:44:02sometimes i think to myself
2:44:05if i wasn't in that man's life
2:44:08would his family still be alive
2:44:11and i've thought about this a lot and i
2:44:13think i could give myself different
2:44:15responses
2:44:16but in all honesty i think they might be
2:44:19alive
2:44:21but not permanently
2:44:23i do not think that this man just
2:44:26snapped i don't think that he just met
2:44:28some [ __ ] amazing woman and he was
2:44:30just gonna try to [ __ ] murder his
2:44:32family and then think that i was okay
2:44:33with like
2:44:35building a relationship with somebody
2:44:37who did something like that like at what
2:44:39[ __ ] point you know and not only that
2:44:40like i
2:44:44always try to say you know like when
2:44:47we get to a point where we've been
2:44:48together long enough
2:44:50i would love to meet your children like
2:44:52i never disclosed them from anything i
2:44:55remember coming back from
2:44:56colorado springs and i was like oh my
2:44:58god they got the cheyenne zoo down here
2:45:00you gotta take your kids and like the
2:45:02you can feed the giraffes and they would
2:45:03love it and like i always try to like
2:45:07and like show him cool things like hey
2:45:09man would your kids like this because my
2:45:12nephew would like this like check this
2:45:13out you know like i sent him a
2:45:14screenshot of some rainbow
2:45:16unicorn lucky charms the other day i was
2:45:18like do your daughters know about these
2:45:19because i bet these are epic
2:45:21like little things like that where it's
2:45:22like like genuinely
2:45:24like i
2:45:25care
2:45:27i do like despite how messy this is and
2:45:29how i'm sure i'm gonna be portraying the
2:45:31media and everything like i care about
2:45:34like his well-being with his children
2:45:36and all of that and so
2:45:38for me like when i think of
2:45:41what was he going through his head i
2:45:43find it really hard to believe that
2:45:45i am the catalyst for all of this
2:45:49i will be willing to say that i think me
2:45:52being in his life accelerated what was
2:45:55inevitably about to happen
2:45:57but i don't think people just snap
2:46:00love
2:46:01does not murder
2:46:03hate and resentment murder
2:46:06that's the way i look at that i
2:46:08do not know what is the truth anymore
2:46:10and what's not and i don't have all of
2:46:12the details but
2:46:13this is just my like opinion but i'm
2:46:15pretty convinced
2:46:17that that woman and him did not get
2:46:19along very well and the reason they
2:46:20stuck together was hey we're gonna do
2:46:22kids and i think they also stuck
2:46:24together because they're in a very bad
2:46:25financial bind and i think that she
2:46:28continuously disregarded it and i think
2:46:31he messed up because he was too passive
2:46:33to say anything to her about it and
2:46:35really address it and it just got to the
2:46:37point where it's just like you file
2:46:38bankruptcy and then what do you do just
2:46:39wait till you file the next one i don't
2:46:41know i don't know what their finances
2:46:43look like now but from the way it made
2:46:44it sound it's probably a pretty stark
2:46:46situation
2:46:47and i
2:46:50don't know if hundreds of thousands of
2:46:52dollars in debt over and over and over
2:46:54again are enough to lead a man to like
2:46:57want to take somebody out but i don't
2:46:59know i've heard of people committing
2:47:00suicide over that [ __ ] before and i
2:47:03would never justify what he did i think
2:47:04it's [ __ ] disgusting it's
2:47:06oh i think he's such a [ __ ] pig but i
2:47:09just
2:47:10i try to like be like why i try to come
2:47:13up with a why and i really think that
2:47:15he was struggling with her really bad
2:47:17and not only that he's got a third child
2:47:19on the way and i know he was probably
2:47:20just like i can't [ __ ] afford a third
2:47:22kid wants it but can't afford it you
2:47:24know and he always told me he like
2:47:26wanted a little boy
2:47:28you know he wanted a third child
2:47:30and so i think that
2:47:33it was just something like i think they
2:47:34were in a financial situation and i
2:47:36think she was very non-responsive to him
2:47:39trying to
2:47:41to like solve problems and like get out
2:47:44of the situations that they were in and
2:47:46i think people just get complacent is
2:47:48what it is and then you know i think uh
2:47:51he met me and i think i was like a
2:47:53breath of fresh air for him where it was
2:47:55like he could get away and just be like
2:47:57you know what i can be myself i don't
2:47:59have to worry about money right now like
2:48:02you know and this girl like i have my
2:48:04[ __ ] together like my life is so like
2:48:06very important you seem very uh
2:48:08organized and independent and
2:48:10dialed in
2:48:12i do really good at work i have like
2:48:14almost a perfect credit score and save
2:48:15money for a house like i don't mess
2:48:17around i mean i did i screwed up this is
2:48:19like my one screw-up ever and it's about
2:48:21to be on like national news
2:48:23but um
2:48:25just very dialed in and i think it was
2:48:27like a breath of fresh air for him to
2:48:29like be around something like that
2:48:31because i don't think that he knew that
2:48:32that was like a real thing and he told
2:48:34me that like numerous times like i
2:48:35didn't know like women like you
2:48:38like existed
2:48:40i'm just like all right like i don't and
2:48:42i when he meant it it was just like like
2:48:44just like the way you run your life and
2:48:46so
2:48:47because you got married really young you
2:48:48know and so
2:48:50to answer your question i think
2:48:52inevitably was going to happen i think
2:48:54it just got propelled
2:48:56faster i mean i don't think
2:48:59i don't understand what he would have
2:49:00achieved
2:49:03with if you want to be with me that bad
2:49:04what he would have achieved with me by
2:49:06doing what he did i think his situation
2:49:09at home
2:49:10was way way deeper
2:49:13than anything him and i ever had and it
2:49:15led to that and i don't know what
2:49:17happened in that conversation that they
2:49:19had
2:49:20but i kind of have a feeling that it
2:49:21wasn't even about
2:49:23her pregnancy or another man or me i
2:49:26have a feeling it was about money
2:49:29so drilling down you think money
2:49:32for him is the the biggest downfall
2:49:35you guys i mean
2:49:37beyond their relationship
2:49:39really i don't know that you know too
2:49:40much about the relationship or the
2:49:41particular issues other than monetary
2:49:43issues
2:49:44financial issues that sounds like what
2:49:46you guys talked about when you talk
2:49:48about their relationship
2:49:49i mean like he told me other things like
2:49:51they really don't like sleep together
2:49:52too much stuff like that but i feel like
2:49:53a lot of husbands and wives don't do
2:49:55that but it was like oh of course you
2:49:56don't that's why you're coming to me
2:49:58you know um
2:50:00but
2:50:02um
2:50:03no i think
2:50:05i think i just like me being in his life
2:50:07just pushed that forward i honestly
2:50:08think that there's probably a good
2:50:10possibility that this would have just
2:50:11happened
2:50:12like further down the road so did you
2:50:14see that before
2:50:18yesterday or tuesday or was that just
2:50:20kind of something that you have
2:50:22reflected on and you thought about this
2:50:24now going man now that i see that in
2:50:26this guy
2:50:27or just because of the lifestyle he was
2:50:29living and if he didn't get removed from
2:50:31it this was gonna
2:50:33happen sooner rather than later like you
2:50:35said um you know if i was to reflect on
2:50:38anything over like the past few weeks
2:50:39besides like the stuff the last few days
2:50:41where you're like hey is there like any
2:50:43red flags
2:50:44um
2:50:45i would say like no but one thing i did
2:50:48notice one time as we were sitting on my
2:50:50couch and i was telling him like my
2:50:52house
2:50:53i have a really beautiful house like
2:50:54it's set up like really nice but
2:50:56everything i have is like from
2:50:58craigslist or goodwill like i have
2:51:00pieced it together and it's all like
2:51:02marked down stuff and i pieced it
2:51:03together in a way like it's pretty huh
2:51:06it's a pretty house but you would never
2:51:08guess that like everything i got is like
2:51:10super discount
2:51:11and
2:51:12um
2:51:13one day we were sitting on my couch
2:51:15and
2:51:17we were just like bullshitting about
2:51:18some stuff and i was telling them like
2:51:20oh yeah you know like i got this marked
2:51:21down american furniture because like the
2:51:23corner was denied and like i got this
2:51:24one off a guy on craigslist
2:51:26and i put it all and i was like telling
2:51:28him i was like i put it all together and
2:51:29i was like to me
2:51:31i was like
2:51:32material things don't make a home i was
2:51:34like it's the energy and the love that
2:51:35you bring to the home it's like it's not
2:51:37about what it looks like it was like
2:51:38it's about what you like bring to it
2:51:41like mentally
2:51:42and he like collapsed in my lap and gave
2:51:46me like the biggest most genuine hug i
2:51:49think that man has ever given me
2:51:53and he just laid there and he was just
2:51:55like you are so different i didn't say
2:51:57anything i just like put my fingers in
2:51:59his hair
2:52:00and just let him chill there and i
2:52:02assume that it had to do with the
2:52:03finances but it didn't like stress me
2:52:06out it was just like
2:52:07this relief sigh where he just like
2:52:09dropped into my arms
2:52:11and i didn't like really think too much
2:52:13of that event except for that i was like
2:52:15this was like it was like a really
2:52:16genuine hug like collapsed into my lap
2:52:19like just so relieved
2:52:21and i didn't really think much of it
2:52:22until like i started reading about like
2:52:25their bankruptcy and all this other [ __ ]
2:52:27and i was like oh
2:52:30so i think it might have been bigger
2:52:32than he let on because he never told me
2:52:34about his bankruptcy sure you know he
2:52:36just told me about his current
2:52:36financials and he didn't even get that
2:52:38in depth but i'm assuming they're
2:52:39trashed
2:52:40and so yeah i think i think
2:52:44her spending all that money and not
2:52:46listening to him and him
2:52:48not
2:52:49standing up for himself in a calm and
2:52:53you know just elevate yeah
2:52:56last hard question regarding this
2:52:59and then i i have just two cursory
2:53:01questions regarding some something else
2:53:04and then i think maybe tim has a few
2:53:05questions for you but
2:53:08i think what you um say about the
2:53:10finances directs
2:53:14directly at his wife
2:53:16do you think that goes to the children
2:53:18as well because she took
2:53:21uh did she treat them like that like
2:53:23they were gold and they got everything
2:53:24as well that you know of or do you think
2:53:26there's a separate issue for why he may
2:53:28have
2:53:30done what he did to his children other
2:53:32than financial that part i don't have an
2:53:34answer for i can't [ __ ] explain that
2:53:36i don't even think there is an answer i
2:53:38don't i don't even think there's any
2:53:40sort of like
2:53:41computing up here that could possibly
2:53:44give a rational explanation for why that
2:53:46would have happened
2:53:48i mean the only thing that i've honestly
2:53:49thought of when i play the scenario over
2:53:51my head is that maybe they woke up and
2:53:53saw him doing in their mom
2:53:55and he was like [ __ ]
2:53:58now i got to do this too i don't know
2:54:00i've like i'm like why because they were
2:54:02like his
2:54:04like little lifeline you know he
2:54:06that was everything to him you know and
2:54:08i get like those two have problems
2:54:11but he had a great relationship as but
2:54:13from what you're accounting is
2:54:14he loves his children yeah like i'm that
2:54:18part it's just it's oh my god that's the
2:54:20worst part of this whole mass the worst
2:54:22part of this whole mess we won't dwell
2:54:23on it we don't have no
2:54:25let me ask you
2:54:26so no i don't i don't have an
2:54:28explanation that's the only thing i can
2:54:30possibly plausibly think of is maybe
2:54:31they saw it but other than that i don't
2:54:33know
2:54:35what the [ __ ] okay
2:54:37who's charlotte
2:54:40are you asking me who's from like one of
2:54:42my friends
2:54:43uh she's like a really good friend of
2:54:45mine why did you have some conversations
2:54:47with her regarding another boyfriend
2:54:52you might have met on eharmony or did
2:54:54she meet somebody on your harmony
2:54:56no she's engaged
2:54:58okay she's engaged so there's some text
2:55:00messages that between that we got off
2:55:03your phone obviously
2:55:05um and the only reason i'm asking this
2:55:06is because if he found out maybe you had
2:55:08another boyfriend you understand
2:55:11my line of questioning
2:55:12that looked like maybe you had another
2:55:14boyfriend
2:55:15and i don't know if that's this gym guy
2:55:17that maybe you guys were no i'm not
2:55:19saying that he's your boyfriend that
2:55:20that when we were interpreting the text
2:55:22messages that it seemed like he might
2:55:24you know this man came to my house he
2:55:25has a key to my house that you're saying
2:55:27right now when i look at that from my
2:55:29perspective
2:55:30jim may be another boyfriend for oh no
2:55:33no no no charlotte is like
2:55:36my oldest friend so did you have a
2:55:38conversation with charlotte about jim
2:55:41i mean sometimes we talk about him we're
2:55:43all friends
2:55:45did you
2:55:46did you guys ever have a conversation
2:55:47about eharmony that's that i mean
2:55:49possibly i was on there for a while not
2:55:52okay but i didn't actually ever go out
2:55:54on any dates with guys from eharmony not
2:55:57one i like i talked to a couple guys on
2:55:59there but i was like no i didn't go on
2:56:01any days so another
2:56:03the only reason
2:56:05would be another
2:56:06potential reason for him to be upset
2:56:09no he knew about jim he's always known
2:56:12that jim is one of my good friends and i
2:56:14lay it out for people at the beginning
2:56:16like i have friends in mail i have
2:56:17friends that are female these are my
2:56:18friends
2:56:20that's what it is like he never to me
2:56:22seemed like jealous of jim by like any
2:56:24means so no i'm curious what text you're
2:56:27talking about charlotte i talked to that
2:56:30girl so i have 153 pages of text
2:56:33messages so i can't if i could pull it
2:56:35up i would but i don't know where it is
2:56:36i thought you guys just got my text we
2:56:39got uh and we asked for everything we
2:56:41for seven days they give us everything
2:56:43oh so why did you need to just do that
2:56:45if you just had them
2:56:46because i don't know that it's they're
2:56:48completely accurate again what they send
2:56:50me
2:56:51is i don't have any way to verify that
2:56:53they're accurate gotcha and if you
2:56:55delete a text message sometimes those
2:56:57are not retained by carriers
2:57:00they're still on your handset there's
2:57:02way to recover them from your phone but
2:57:04they may not be held there are certain
2:57:06carriers that don't even keep text
2:57:08messages and i won't tell you who those
2:57:09people are but they don't keep them we
2:57:12can't even get our hands on them because
2:57:13they don't have a database they don't
2:57:14pay the money they're stored on your
2:57:17stuff and your stuff only so that's why
2:57:19we ask for it and some of those things
2:57:21disappear in three days five days seven
2:57:23days unless we ask them to keep them and
2:57:25sometimes we don't know in time so
2:57:28that's why we do it too
2:57:29okay
2:57:30so just uh it was a question because it
2:57:33also would provide potentially a motive
2:57:36for what chris did if if he found out
2:57:38that you had another boyfriend why would
2:57:40he kill his family well he wigs out that
2:57:41he finds out that you have a boyfriend
2:57:43and just loses it all together do you
2:57:45understand because he's already losing
2:57:46his wife and now his new girlfriend has
2:57:48another boyfriend and he just he can't
2:57:52there's multiple reasons why it just it
2:57:53was a concern
2:57:55that his cheese slid off his cracker
2:58:00so sad
2:58:01i don't know he's like not even the same
2:58:03i look at those like mug shots and it's
2:58:06they're scary they scare me
2:58:09yeah so you said about that video too it
2:58:12didn't
2:58:14i had noticed it was
2:58:16i would have been iraq
2:58:18i don't know i mean i volunteered with
2:58:20some guys for when i did the armed
2:58:22military stuff that had ptsd and they
2:58:24were telling me when they went through
2:58:26trauma that they like kind of locked up
2:58:27so like i didn't even think it was the
2:58:29fact that he was calm that freaked me
2:58:31out it was like his eyes
2:58:34yeah oh yeah it was his like that part
2:58:37didn't because i was like i've seen
2:58:38there's these guys that have been in
2:58:40battle that i've worked with that are
2:58:41like yeah i've experienced this is how i
2:58:43handle my trauma and they're like very
2:58:45like
2:58:46just
2:58:47kind of like zombies
2:58:49but so i didn't hold that against him it
2:58:51was just his eyes and
2:58:52just the light is
2:58:54gone from his eyes
2:58:56so let me just finish just with a couple
2:58:58quick questions here but
2:59:00besides the obvious you know and what
2:59:02he's done uh
2:59:05do you was there what's the worst thing
2:59:06about this guy
2:59:08did you ever have just some sense you
2:59:10seem to be pretty together with who you
2:59:12date people you you know hang around
2:59:14with you you
2:59:16seem to know a lot about people
2:59:18was there some impression he gave you
2:59:22like the whole time we were together
2:59:24yeah anything negative that sticks out i
2:59:26didn't think anything negative i mean
2:59:28like i have preferences like i thought
2:59:30he was like
2:59:32i don't want to use the word clingy
2:59:33because that's [ __ ] up he was like
2:59:35really
2:59:36he was a lot more into me than i was
2:59:39into him
2:59:40and it didn't make me
2:59:42yeah i mean i really enjoyed his company
2:59:45though i mean enough so that i kept
2:59:48everything going despite the situation
2:59:51and
2:59:52i mean
2:59:53like it didn't scare me or anything it's
2:59:55just like i don't move that fast okay so
2:59:58i think what were his long-term plans
3:00:00with you what did he discuss with you
3:00:02well i mean we'd like [ __ ] about it
3:00:03every once in a while and be like oh
3:00:05yeah like i asked him i was like if you
3:00:07didn't have that big house because he
3:00:09didn't want to live in it and he had
3:00:11made it very clear he didn't pick that
3:00:12out he didn't none of that i was like
3:00:14well if you could have a house that you
3:00:16wanted what would your house look like
3:00:18and he would tell me it's like a little
3:00:19ranch home
3:00:20like it doesn't need all these floors
3:00:22just a few bedrooms enough space for my
3:00:24kids maybe some property so they can
3:00:26like run around
3:00:28you know two-car garage maybe three put
3:00:31the old sports car in there because you
3:00:32like cars stuff like that you know what
3:00:35i tell them i'm like i'm simple too so
3:00:37if you end up doing that and we end up
3:00:38staying together let's do it but it was
3:00:40never like sell your house let's go buy
3:00:42a house like it was buried anything
3:00:44about getting married
3:00:46to me yeah i mean it was like a thing
3:00:48where it was like offhandedly like one
3:00:50day maybe this will happen but again it
3:00:52was like these were
3:00:54i did not take these as very like deep
3:00:56deep conversations it wasn't like this
3:00:59is when we're gonna get married this is
3:01:00what's gonna go on okay you know um and
3:01:03you knew him for how long
3:01:06total just not even not dating him but i
3:01:07mean when did you when were you first
3:01:09aware of him how long i don't know
3:01:11probably the beginning of june or maybe
3:01:12may so like two and a half three months
3:01:15tops i mean this is all like really
3:01:17fresh like all of this is compounded
3:01:19into like a very small time very quick
3:01:22yes has he worked for the company for a
3:01:24while yeah
3:01:25i don't know how long i want to say like
3:01:26five or six years off the top of my head
3:01:28but i don't know but he can supervise
3:01:29people do you know anything about that
3:01:31uh yeah kind of so he was an operator
3:01:34and the way the operators are set up at
3:01:36anadarko is they have operator one
3:01:38operator two operator three but then
3:01:40each operator is like broke down into
3:01:42like the basic guy the medium guy and
3:01:44like the foreman and then it starts all
3:01:46over again so he is still on level one
3:01:49of the operators but he's like the top
3:01:51dog on the level one of the operators
3:01:53okay
3:01:54the whole time you've known him as two
3:01:55or three months
3:01:56did he ever complain of anything any
3:01:58medical issues whatsoever and did you
3:02:00ever pick up on anything does he is he
3:02:02allergic to anything does he have any
3:02:05you know a special diet anything that's
3:02:07that's messing with him physically not
3:02:09that i'm aware of okay how about
3:02:11psychologically do you ever think
3:02:12there's something wrong with this guy no
3:02:14i wouldn't have dated him if i did he
3:02:17honestly
3:02:18i mean maybe because i thought he was
3:02:20like one of the like most laid-back and
3:02:22like decent men i'd ever met and i just
3:02:24haven't met a lot of people like that
3:02:26but
3:02:27i mean no not up until all this stuff
3:02:30started happening then i was like whoa
3:02:32you are not the person that i thought
3:02:34you were
3:02:35um but prior to that no not at all i
3:02:38really didn't i enjoyed his company do
3:02:40you think he was dating anyone else
3:02:43no no way no okay he was way too
3:02:46invested in that um was the relationship
3:02:48pretty was it sexual right off the bat
3:02:51pretty close i mean like once we got it
3:02:54to be like
3:02:55where we're hanging out outside of work
3:02:57yeah i mean it wasn't like immediate but
3:02:59shortly following that yes and then it
3:03:01just continued
3:03:02okay pretty consistently throughout the
3:03:04relationship so kind of hot and heavy
3:03:07you mentioned that maybe you guys were
3:03:08sending some photos back and forth what
3:03:10kind of photos is he sending you
3:03:12well see he would like send me like
3:03:14workout photos stuff like that he sent
3:03:16me a couple of inappropriate pics i did
3:03:18not request those i didn't even want him
3:03:20i'm just like why what were they
3:03:22out of his his package
3:03:25and i'm just like okay cool um like his
3:03:27face and everything no no no
3:03:30um
3:03:32no that's it but i think he only did
3:03:34that like one time she's like i don't
3:03:36even really want this but usually he
3:03:38would just send me pictures like workout
3:03:40pics like progress pick stuff and i
3:03:42would just kind of keep him updated like
3:03:44because he was like he had some like
3:03:46fitness goals in mind so it's kind of
3:03:47like trying to help him out with that
3:03:49okay when was the last time you guys
3:03:50were intimate
3:03:52saturday saturday is that the broncos
3:03:55game
3:03:56where where would that have taken place
3:03:58at my house when he went to go pick you
3:04:00up before
3:04:01heading up to uh he didn't pick me up
3:04:03let me drive my vehicle
3:04:05but um yeah prior to and
3:04:08immediately following afterwards
3:04:11so it was like
3:04:12he came to my house it happened and then
3:04:15we went out to dinner and he came back
3:04:16to my house happened again and then he
3:04:18left
3:04:19okay
3:04:22any other stressors in his life besides
3:04:24finances
3:04:26that he mentioned
3:04:27i mean his wife just the fact that they
3:04:30just
3:04:31that she doesn't like let him openly
3:04:33communicate i mean but other than that
3:04:35no
3:04:37i mean nothing that i really know of he
3:04:39was i mean we didn't like dive super
3:04:42deep into that stuff it was just like
3:04:44occasionally there'd be a conversation
3:04:46where it would come up and
3:04:47i mean it wasn't even really information
3:04:49that he wanted to provide it was just
3:04:50like me being curious like why are you
3:04:52separating from her this is good to know
3:04:55or like what are your finances like in
3:04:57case i end up building a life with you
3:04:59but it's usually me like doing the
3:05:01inquiries but i used to try not to be
3:05:03like super invasive about that stuff
3:05:06what are they in your mind again just
3:05:08real quick what are the things that that
3:05:09really pop out to you that he would
3:05:11complain about about his wife
3:05:14just that she didn't listen to him she
3:05:16like never listened to him
3:05:18she always just like shut him off when
3:05:20he told me once that she's like
3:05:23like kind of like talk [ __ ] to him in
3:05:25front of his kids and his kids were
3:05:26starting to repeat it
3:05:28did he give you an example yeah
3:05:31she said
3:05:32what did she say
3:05:34he said he tried to ask her for
3:05:35something
3:05:37and ask her a question
3:05:39i don't know something i he didn't like
3:05:42dive super into this this was like
3:05:43pretty early on and she said she told
3:05:46him to shut up and that he didn't know
3:05:47anything and his kids started like
3:05:50repeating it
3:05:51and he said that it made him really sad
3:05:54and he realized that that was when he
3:05:56needed to separate from her
3:05:59so and and he never though he said she
3:06:01was a good mom
3:06:03yeah i mean he never complained about
3:06:04her being like a bad mom or neglectful
3:06:07or anything like that as anything
3:06:09nothing nothing when it comes to like
3:06:11violence or anger or any of that nothing
3:06:13i mean and he even said like yeah like
3:06:15so she she kind of like
3:06:17gets bossy with me sometimes but as far
3:06:19as like arguing back and forth he's like
3:06:21that never happens he's like we don't
3:06:23fight like that
3:06:25so i don't know he seemed pretty like
3:06:27even keeled with stuff so just
3:06:30did they talk about how they discipline
3:06:31their kids at all i never asked i felt
3:06:34like that was not my place didn't he
3:06:35never mentioned it
3:06:39that's all i was gonna ask
3:06:42just making sure nobody else
3:06:48what time is it
3:06:50it's eight o'clock yes it's time to go
3:06:54you have my card
3:06:57things will probably come to your mind
3:06:58in the next
3:06:59day week month
3:07:02year
3:07:03especially
3:07:05as you
3:07:06get some sleep
3:07:08and recovery here please don't hesitate
3:07:11to call me my email is on there you can
3:07:13email me the business phone number on
3:07:16there is not accurate i used to work in
3:07:17our pueblo office until so
3:07:19july just call my cell phone i'm never
3:07:22in my office anyways okay my cell phone
3:07:24will always be the same so just call my
3:07:26cell phone
3:07:28and and i will respond to you as soon as
3:07:30i can if
3:07:31if you need uh you know to send an email
3:07:34again you can send an email to me
3:07:36okay
3:07:37if i can
3:07:38help you in any way with
3:07:40some services to deal with the obvious
3:07:44trauma that you face
3:07:46let me know and i'll get you in touch
3:07:48with the people that can help you
3:07:49um also
3:07:53if you have issues with anybody
3:07:55intimidating you in any fashion i will
3:07:58tell you right now i have zero tolerance
3:08:00for that
3:08:01zero i will charge anybody if i can
3:08:04prove it
3:08:05and i will take them straight to jail
3:08:07period you are not
3:08:09you're not a suspect in anything you're
3:08:11merely a witness
3:08:13unfortunately for you you met a man who
3:08:15did some terrible things
3:08:17and i will not i
3:08:19i won't stand for it i through my career
3:08:22period zero tolerance you will go
3:08:24straight to jail you call me immediately
3:08:26and i will handle it i appreciate it
3:08:28okay
3:08:29and finally
3:08:31you probably eventually are going to get
3:08:34media inquiries when are you thinking
3:08:36this is going to happen i don't think
3:08:37it's going to happen soon i really don't
3:08:39i will tell you today that there was an
3:08:41inquiry from a media member
3:08:43requesting to know if there was any
3:08:45other people involved in chris's life
3:08:48um
3:08:49you know is i think they're
3:08:52the story is they're they're searching
3:08:55but but there is no
3:08:57there's only a multiple couple of time
3:09:00reasons that somebody could think what
3:09:02would cause this well there's so many
3:09:04financial stuff they're posting it right
3:09:06i'm saying it
3:09:07so i think there's a buffer for you for
3:09:09a couple of reasons i told you today i i
3:09:11did not see the affidavit i don't think
3:09:13your name was mentioned in it there's no
3:09:15reason for it i don't think at this time
3:09:17for his arrest
3:09:18when
3:09:19um the affidavit becomes public which i
3:09:22think they mentioned may be early next
3:09:24week
3:09:25that'll keep them
3:09:27media busy for a while
3:09:29so her name wasn't in it did you think i
3:09:31don't think you're married he didn't
3:09:32publish that thing right so
3:09:34he um so i talked to mark this morning
3:09:36and i know he has not written a report
3:09:38now i do know that he did talk to
3:09:41um the people yesterday just regarding
3:09:44her because it was important for some of
3:09:46the things we were doing yesterday again
3:09:48i don't think your name appears in that
3:09:50report
3:09:51um so but don't hold me to that i i
3:09:54didn't write that for david but
3:09:56from from what i know it doesn't so
3:10:00at some point this your name is going to
3:10:02come out i mean there's just no way it's
3:10:03not and and like i told you so many
3:10:06things that is like when we take this to
3:10:08trial like at what point because nobody
3:10:10knows about this
3:10:12right but chris does
3:10:14yeah i don't think he's in any rush to
3:10:16tell the media anything i mean maybe is
3:10:19there mitigators that he in his mind or
3:10:22again you got a phone call from the
3:10:24public defender's office whether you
3:10:25talk to them or not that's your business
3:10:27you didn't i did not oh i thought you
3:10:29did i did not i didn't know what to do
3:10:32mark said to ask you what to do okay so
3:10:35did they reach out to you yep okay you
3:10:39can
3:10:40your decision you don't have to talk to
3:10:42them or you can
3:10:45i i won't say either way
3:10:48you
3:10:48have to make that decision for yourself
3:10:50i don't really know what to do i feel
3:10:52like if i talk to them they're either
3:10:54going to try to like find some holes in
3:10:56my story or try to get me to like be
3:10:58chris's only ally and i don't really
3:11:00feel like dealing with either one of
3:11:01those
3:11:02then i think you've made up your mind
3:11:04yeah and maybe confide in your father
3:11:09i can't really give you legal advice
3:11:11they have every
3:11:12reason to want to talk to you just like
3:11:15if they got to you before i did i would
3:11:17want to talk to you too you understand
3:11:18what i mean and i won't hamper what
3:11:20their investigation is or anything they
3:11:22they want information too certainly they
3:11:25have a client that they're trying to
3:11:26protect and and make sure that
3:11:28everything that we're looking at is is
3:11:30the same thing that they would want they
3:11:31can get it from you
3:11:33they will get it from us so it'll be
3:11:36in discovery they'll get
3:11:38everything that we've talked about here
3:11:39and that's so when
3:11:41that happens which is pretty short order
3:11:44uh the reports that we will generate
3:11:46everybody involved in this case will be
3:11:48sent to the public defender's office i
3:11:51think at that time you might
3:11:53find that that
3:11:55there could be some exposure for you
3:11:58so i i am not going to tell anybody who
3:12:00you are if somebody called me today
3:12:02i i don't talk to the media i don't have
3:12:04any business talking to media mark has
3:12:07no business talking in the media
3:12:08they don't need to know who you are it
3:12:10your part in this is not relative to
3:12:12anything do they you know to the story
3:12:15for me
3:12:16it it's nothing that they need to know
3:12:18and um i don't ever give information to
3:12:20anybody they're gonna dwell on it though
3:12:21they're gonna try to use that as his why
3:12:23i don't think it says why i really don't
3:12:26that's why we i asked you that question
3:12:28does you think his why is financial
3:12:32i and whether or not we ever know what
3:12:34is wise i don't know did he tell you
3:12:36guys what his why was i can't discuss it
3:12:38with you
3:12:40so um just a
3:12:42quick open question
3:12:44the way the
3:12:45legal system runs is that um
3:12:50if he totally confesses and pleads
3:12:53guilty
3:12:54is there a reason for a trial or do they
3:12:57just pack enough discoveries together
3:13:00that
3:13:01this proves what he said and
3:13:03he purchases to a kind of court and it's
3:13:05done or the purpose for discovery is we
3:13:07have to we're obligated by law to share
3:13:10everything that we know with um the
3:13:11public defender or a private attorney
3:13:14okay um it doesn't go the other way
3:13:16they don't have to share anything with
3:13:17us so we are obligated to give them
3:13:19everything we have
3:13:20no matter what happens
3:13:22i can tell you right now probably
3:13:24sometime early this week will be
3:13:26his you know he's going to enter a plea
3:13:27either i'm guilty or inaudible that will
3:13:29probably be sometime monday tuesday
3:13:31wednesday of this coming week would i
3:13:33would imagine uh from what i heard today
3:13:35now it might be a little more delayed
3:13:37and then that starts the legal process
3:13:40so if he pleads guilty
3:13:43um
3:13:45you know could that happen today sure
3:13:46certainly i mean he could go to his
3:13:47attorneys you've seen it happen before
3:13:50um if he pleads guilty
3:13:52is that information still available
3:13:54absolutely because there's still uh got
3:13:57to be legal process regarding
3:14:00is he competent to stand uh for can he
3:14:03make that plea
3:14:04it
3:14:05are are the attorneys gonna allow him to
3:14:07do so
3:14:08you you know what i'm talking about so
3:14:10that all that information still goes to
3:14:12them
3:14:13um and then that would play into you
3:14:15know potentially what is the sentence
3:14:18what what could be the penalty all those
3:14:20things have to be looked at by attorneys
3:14:23so there is no not
3:14:25them ever getting her name
3:14:26it is going to be there at some point
3:14:29and
3:14:30i don't know i i understand your fear
3:14:32and that's why i told you that if
3:14:34anybody i don't care if somebody calls
3:14:36you and says you know
3:14:38anything minor you call me and let me
3:14:40know please i won't i will not stand for
3:14:43that
3:14:44okay
3:14:45so
3:14:46it would be the
3:14:47the news people would only be the ones
3:14:49that of course they already know what to
3:14:52god working's going to be such a mess
3:14:54too that's going to be like a whole
3:14:56other level like everybody at my work i
3:14:58heard was so like just damaged and
3:15:00broken today and then it's like let's
3:15:02just add nikki into this whole mix
3:15:06it's not going to be good for all other
3:15:08like mentally either
3:15:10it's just going to be a mess maybe your
3:15:14employer could transfer you to another
3:15:16business
3:15:18i think that's a fair state i will tell
3:15:20you right now that anadarko has been
3:15:22very very helpful with us
3:15:24and is very concerned about their
3:15:26employees
3:15:27in this event
3:15:29um
3:15:30and i
3:15:31i'm tired too uh but you may your
3:15:34your employer definitely
3:15:36is has an indication of your
3:15:39relationship with chris i would think
3:15:41they're not my employer oh that's right
3:15:42you work for a different company
3:15:44yeah but you're saying
3:15:47anna darko hasn't
3:15:49has a knowledge of that well what are
3:15:51you talking about tasman or anadarko
3:15:53i don't even know what tasman is that's
3:15:55one of the people that cut my check and
3:15:56i'm contracted out to ap so
3:15:59i think people
3:16:01just have suspicion that there was a
3:16:02relationship
3:16:04with chris not saying you but they may
3:16:05know that i think there was some
3:16:07suspicion that he was having a
3:16:08relationship with somebody else
3:16:11not your name specifically but if you
3:16:13went to your bosses and said
3:16:15i have an issue that i don't you know
3:16:18like your dad's saying i think that you
3:16:20might find that they'll just get you out
3:16:22of there see that's what
3:16:24and that's what we were talking about
3:16:26today because they probably have a
3:16:27policy for
3:16:30psychological help they probably have a
3:16:32policy for
3:16:34uh inquisitive you know people bugging
3:16:37other employees
3:16:39that's a big company with a lot of hr
3:16:42and
3:16:43there's do you have an employee
3:16:44assistance program
3:16:46i don't
3:16:47oh yeah that's so that they were there
3:16:50all day today but it's like i got so
3:16:51many calls today those are questions
3:16:54that you can ask them anonymously and
3:16:56that information is resolved that's what
3:16:58i was saying because
3:16:59so what am i supposed to do tell my boss
3:17:02well what no but
3:17:04their
3:17:05your bosses are going to want
3:17:07rumor mongers they're not going to want
3:17:11people
3:17:12stressing you out they're not going to
3:17:13wait but they don't want erratic
3:17:15workflow
3:17:16they don't want any of that so they'll
3:17:18they'll probably do a broadcast letter
3:17:20of
3:17:21anybody that was friends they already
3:17:23said that with all this or anything else
3:17:26please respect that employee's
3:17:28feelings and right there oh and by the
3:17:31way if any of you have problems eating
3:17:32the bill alum you can call mickey mouse
3:17:34at
3:17:35you know and that and that's probably
3:17:37they probably have a policy with that
3:17:39here's the problem
3:17:41i don't work for them
3:17:44but they can still but i if i'm like
3:17:46transferring me like they're gonna be
3:17:49like you're not even our employee like
3:17:51i'm pretty sure i'm about to lose my job
3:17:53over this no no you're not why would you
3:17:55lose your job i don't know because i
3:17:57feel like people are gonna just complain
3:17:58about being uncomfortable with working
3:18:00with me like i
3:18:01i am not gonna have any respect from
3:18:04anybody there i think i will have like
3:18:05two people that still you really didn't
3:18:08do anything wrong i had an affair with a
3:18:11married man who lied to me and made me
3:18:14believe that he really wasn't like is
3:18:16married as i think he was but the media
3:18:19is not going to be so kind to let
3:18:21everybody know that
3:18:23i think people are going to think i'm
3:18:25like the reason that he went off the
3:18:26deep end
3:18:28that's probably a fair statement i would
3:18:30probably agree with you to some effect
3:18:32but if these people you know him at work
3:18:35and the company will protect the company
3:18:37will
3:18:39buffer that as much as they can because
3:18:41if not it'd be it'd be chaos
3:18:44amongst employees and they can't have
3:18:46that i am just so sad because it's
3:18:55you've been out in the field what you've
3:18:57been home uh three months of the year
3:19:00on an average
3:19:02in
3:19:03staggered amount out in the middle of
3:19:05nowhere
3:19:06on oil rigs this little thing was out
3:19:09hanging on oil rigs
3:19:11and now they got her an environmental
3:19:12where she's able to
3:19:14clean up
3:19:15stuff right and it's a hot job man it's
3:19:18just a hot job and
3:19:20i i mean would you i wouldn't be talking
3:19:23telling you i can't give you
3:19:24advice maybe the best thing to do on
3:19:26that is
3:19:27talk to your eap
3:19:29whoever the employees assistance people
3:19:31are they're anonymous they know all your
3:19:33hr rules they know all your policy and
3:19:36procedure stuff and
3:19:38how do i
3:19:39how can i mitigate
3:19:41this and also for your problem too is
3:19:44not just
3:19:45it is this going to become an
3:19:47environment where you can't work
3:19:49um you know so you have to call those
3:19:51people and say i don't want this to
3:19:52happen so how do we take care of it
3:19:54i want to continue to work for you guys
3:19:56i love my job whatever you know just be
3:19:58proactive i don't know
3:20:00um your boss is on site
3:20:04yeah she's pretty cool i don't know
3:20:06she's i think that's a personal decision
3:20:08you have to make yeah i didn't even
3:20:11think about talking to them at all but i
3:20:13keep thinking about i'm like man when my
3:20:15name gets out in the news this is about
3:20:16to be crazy like i have people calling
3:20:18me all day like my office mate would not
3:20:20shut up she just called me today and she
3:20:22was just like oh my god did you read
3:20:24this article and this article and what
3:20:25did you think and oh my god and this is
3:20:26this and i'm just like i don't
3:20:29i don't want to talk about this please
3:20:30leave me alone and like it was really
3:20:32overwhelming and my project manager
3:20:34called me and he's really chill so we
3:20:36made it a very quick conversation but
3:20:38some people just like didn't get it and
3:20:40it's so hard to make it i feel like i'm
3:20:43lying to them i'd get in front of it no
3:20:46don't yeah because make a decision
3:20:48i don't think it would be in their best
3:20:49interest
3:20:51legally morally or profit wise to have
3:20:56a bunch of
3:20:57junk going on they would suppress it to
3:20:59keep it at least where everybody's
3:21:02treated with respect throughout the
3:21:04company this is a tough situation
3:21:06you know they'll put the
3:21:10like 75 of that at home i've already
3:21:14been thinking about that i was thinking
3:21:15about just asking little like hey man
3:21:17just let me come in at like five in the
3:21:19morning and deal with the gas monitors
3:21:20like two days a week no one will even
3:21:22know when i
3:21:23[Music]
3:21:25they probably made a statement on that
3:21:27would you call it ohp or
3:21:29eap
3:21:31they put out a notice today if they put
3:21:33that out and it says your
3:21:35confidentiality will be respected it has
3:21:38to be if that got leaked
3:21:40through an hr department and that got
3:21:42out
3:21:43after you told him something that would
3:21:44not be good for
3:21:46employment law is very strict on that
3:21:48kind of stuff and i think you should
3:21:50just attack not attack it but
3:21:53be proactive in it and snuff it because
3:21:55and what just go tell my boss like
3:21:58not what i told you guys but like a
3:22:00summed up version of it like hey the
3:22:03game is about to get released in the
3:22:04media and there's a lot of stuff i don't
3:22:06know if i'd do that in that fashion i
3:22:08might just you just need to figure out a
3:22:10tactful way to do that and perhaps in an
3:22:13employment there's attorneys that deal
3:22:14with employment law
3:22:16and maybe you want to reach out to one
3:22:17of them that might help you i don't know
3:22:20um
3:22:21you know
3:22:22it's it's a decision that you might need
3:22:23to make or you might want to talk i
3:22:25think i would talk to eap first because
3:22:26it's not gonna cost you money um see if
3:22:29they'll do something i hope so because
3:22:30they're not actually my employer so
3:22:32they're an outside agency that just
3:22:34knows what's going on but
3:22:37both companies it would be in their best
3:22:39interest to protect
3:22:41everybody
3:22:42including all the foreman he worked with
3:22:45apprentices he worked with i mean all of
3:22:47those people have
3:22:49a lot of information too not like me but
3:22:52again they don't want to hear it they
3:22:54don't want to have
3:22:55you know they don't want to talk about
3:22:56it they have the same rights so
3:22:59it would be a company-wide thing so i
3:23:01would just on the media we'll work on
3:23:03that yeah i think you've got a grip on
3:23:06that on the media stuff for you i
3:23:08wouldn't talk to the media just tell
3:23:09them you don't have any comment and for
3:23:11you probably the same and if they just
3:23:13persist um
3:23:15you know maybe
3:23:17put somebody
3:23:18things like your dad is your your
3:23:20biggest confidant here and maybe make a
3:23:22brief statement if you know my daughter
3:23:24doesn't want to say anything have a nice
3:23:26day whatever you know because if you
3:23:27appease them a little bit sometimes
3:23:28they'll go away
3:23:30that would just be my suggestion um
3:23:33don't talk to them that you don't need
3:23:34to i'm not going to i guess they're
3:23:37going to make their own assumptions
3:23:40so does your neighbor so does the right
3:23:50whatever you know what's going to happen
3:23:51just prepare yourself and then it won't
3:23:54be
3:23:55they're going to swarm my house i don't
3:23:57think so no they were like swarming
3:23:59hands he told me that he's like there's
3:24:01media everywhere and it's just like i
3:24:03hope that does not
3:24:04happen to me i mean i have like a little
3:24:07i have like a safe house in denver that
3:24:09i can go to that i have the keys to that
3:24:12has
3:24:13nobody there
3:24:15all i have to do is check the mail
3:24:17and there's no questions asked and
3:24:19nobody knows where it is and i'm not
3:24:21telling anybody but it's like a really
3:24:23nice spot for me to like hide out and i
3:24:27don't have any friends in that building
3:24:29i mean it's an apartment but and we will
3:24:30answer your phone calls but the safe
3:24:32house is from the safe house
3:24:36when should i go there when do you think
3:24:38all this is gonna start happening i mean
3:24:40i mean it might be just good for you to
3:24:42go there
3:24:43anyways for your sanity and stay away
3:24:46from this place that you had a
3:24:47connection to this man with and get your
3:24:50thoughts in order so sad that was my
3:24:52nest it was like such a warm little
3:24:53place that was yours
3:24:55it's like i haven't even slept in my bed
3:24:57i've just been sleeping on the couch
3:24:59with the dog
3:25:01oh i didn't want to do it
3:25:04what other questions can we answer
3:25:06before we go i i don't
3:25:09foresee
3:25:10talking to you again regarding this now
3:25:12an attorney might review something and
3:25:13go hey can you ask her another question
3:25:16and that would be a long ways down the
3:25:17line i don't think there's anything else
3:25:19i let you talk for a long time today to
3:25:22get it all out
3:25:24so we don't have to do this again
3:25:25because i don't want to traumatize you
3:25:27again
3:25:28but if there is important things that
3:25:29come up please know that i do want to
3:25:32talk to you about those other things
3:25:33that we haven't talked about today or if
3:25:35something
3:25:36just
3:25:37i mean i gotta tell them just call me
3:25:39i mean like some things i thought were
3:25:41really important like the other day like
3:25:42i didn't mention the wedding ring thing
3:25:44and then i was like that was really
3:25:45creepy i should probably tell them about
3:25:47that
3:25:49and you got those cards again
3:25:52so you gave me cards and there was
3:25:53clothing in there yeah i just i don't
3:25:55care what you do with it all i just
3:25:56don't the clothing was any of the
3:25:57clothing anything he wore this weekend
3:25:59or is it stuff that was from no no no it
3:26:02was like stuff that he brought over like
3:26:04prior to that none of that like some of
3:26:06it's been washed and folded since then
3:26:08yeah i just wanted it out of my house
3:26:10and didn't want to throw it away we'll
3:26:12take us
3:26:13we'll take care of that um if i have
3:26:16questions on the context of a text
3:26:18message i might just call you and say
3:26:20how does this mean because i might not
3:26:22understand what you were talking about
3:26:23if that's okay with you
3:26:25yeah that's fine if it's i'm not going
3:26:27to bother you unless it's really
3:26:29important because i think i have
3:26:30everything i need from you today okay
3:26:32yeah we just want to make sure you guys
3:26:34had it so good well and we don't i don't
3:26:36find the right person or something we
3:26:37don't want to do nothing yeah and
3:26:39we know we have the right person and i
3:26:42am sorry that
3:26:44you're involved i am it's never a good
3:26:46time
3:26:48to say anything like that but it's it's
3:26:50a bad deal this whole thing is and this
3:26:52is one of the tougher cases that
3:26:54i think i've been doing this long time
3:26:56it's
3:26:57you know it's tough so for you it's even
3:27:00tougher and don't
3:27:03forget to reach out to somebody for
3:27:05your sanity like i told i asked you
3:27:07downstairs a question and you said no
3:27:09you remember what question i asked you
3:27:11right
3:27:15you know how many questions you've asked
3:27:16me on a pizza
3:27:18well
3:27:19i want food too no i asked you if you
3:27:21had any um concern i asked if i should
3:27:24be concerned at all about you hurting
3:27:26yourself oh no i don't feel the need to
3:27:29do that i just want people to leave me
3:27:31alone i just feel like i want to like
3:27:33hide for a little while just please
3:27:36reach out to your family or even me and
3:27:39if there's any if you have any things
3:27:41that's struggling i like i told you
3:27:43there's people i can put you in touch
3:27:45that will talk to you i'm not a
3:27:46psychologist i'm not
3:27:48that's not what i am but
3:27:50people sometimes they get caught in
3:27:52these situations they end up
3:27:54having lots of emotional issues and you
3:27:56need to address them don't
3:27:58just hide
3:27:59that stuff okay
3:28:01all right um are you guys
3:28:03super super intelligent so i appreciate
3:28:06that
3:28:07that's a nice compliment when we go to
3:28:09like trial for this if that's what he so
3:28:12feels the need to take this to um are
3:28:14you guys gonna help like coach me
3:28:16through these questions
3:28:17so
3:28:18we would be there um to
3:28:21rediscuss our
3:28:23conversation today the conversation you
3:28:25had with mark and then an attorney would
3:28:28talk to you prior to any questioning on
3:28:31the stand regarding what kind of
3:28:32questions they're going to ask you
3:28:34and really the only thing you have to
3:28:36remember i mean if you're worried about
3:28:38your recollection or your recall or
3:28:41you know how you might remember this
3:28:43everybody worries about that even we do
3:28:45we spend hours on the stand and it's
3:28:48very difficult but the only thing you
3:28:50have to remember is tell the truth
3:28:52and the truth will never change in your
3:28:54mind you know what happened during these
3:28:56six weeks you know what happened on
3:28:58monday and tuesday
3:29:00and as long as you tell the truth then
3:29:03there's nothing to be worried about if
3:29:04you don't remember something you don't
3:29:06remember it
3:29:07um might they pick on you a little bit
3:29:09about that absolutely they usually pick
3:29:11on us a lot more than they do you guys
3:29:13so um
3:29:15but that's so far down the road
3:29:18i mean why are we
3:29:21well
3:29:22so he has the right to a speedy trial
3:29:24once he makes a plea which is 45 days
3:29:26do i think that's gonna happen
3:29:28absolutely not i can tell you that the
3:29:30majority of the homicides that i work on
3:29:33average somewhere between
3:29:35one and three years
3:29:37yeah look at the clown i gotta just deal
3:29:39with the media like
3:29:40knocking on my door for like three years
3:29:43this case will be hot until the next
3:29:46unfortunately
3:29:48crazy case comes up
3:29:50and and you know it's true
3:29:52i don't know if you watch the news
3:29:53there's a reason i really don't ever i
3:29:55don't but you know there's something new
3:29:57every week that's the hot topic
3:29:59this one might be hot for a week two
3:30:01three whatever and then something else
3:30:03is going to happen and and they're going
3:30:05to forget all about this one until it
3:30:07comes back to court and then it's going
3:30:09to be revived if it ever does i don't
3:30:11know what that you know he has all sorts
3:30:13of he could plead he could say i want to
3:30:15go to trial i didn't do this whatever he
3:30:17could say whatever
3:30:19um so it could be tomorrow
3:30:22it could be five years it's
3:30:24it just depends i mean there's a lot of
3:30:26things that can slow cases down
3:30:28um and look at that theater thing i mean
3:30:31that was a whirlwind for
3:30:33what a month or so sure and then all of
3:30:35a sudden
3:30:36it
3:30:38as soon as people started figuring out
3:30:40what that guy was all about all of a
3:30:41sudden they started just like and he's
3:30:44weird he was psycho look at him and he
3:30:46just kind of just and then it
3:30:48shows up like every
3:30:50a huge that's a huge huge event yeah you
3:30:53know certainly fills up every six months
3:30:55or a year sure
3:30:56you know i mean you look at i i just
3:30:59there's no way to know that but if like
3:31:01your dad's saying you know like on that
3:31:03that guy was sent to the state hospital
3:31:04for evaluation that takes a long long
3:31:06time and that can draw out cases if
3:31:09there's evaluations there's all sorts of
3:31:11things that come into play that really
3:31:13don't worry about
3:31:15is put this thing out of your mind
3:31:18as much as you can
3:31:19and
3:31:21when the time comes if it ever does that
3:31:24you had to testify
3:31:26you will be in good hands we'll take
3:31:28care of you the
3:31:29attorneys handle in this case are gonna
3:31:32you know take care of whatever needs to
3:31:33happen
3:31:34okay
3:31:36and if you have questions that you can't
3:31:38think of just call
3:31:40yeah i don't i don't think we're going
3:31:41to talk to the other side
3:31:43from what we were discussing they can
3:31:45get the discoveries from you guys and
3:31:47just deal with him anymore mark already
3:31:49said he's like he might try to call you
3:31:51i think i'm going to just ignore that
3:31:54who
3:31:55chris
3:32:00i don't know
3:32:02if people tried to call me i heard did
3:32:04they find those little girls yet
3:32:06and
3:32:15i find the whole thing very
3:32:17weird if the close
3:32:19as much as you told me that he doesn't
3:32:24he was as normal as he was but yet some
3:32:28very close friend would call within
3:32:31a couple of hours of her not answering
3:32:33the door or what was it like well i
3:32:35think she was like on meds or something
3:32:37like so i think she wasn't concerned
3:32:40but to call the police within just like
3:32:43the same day and yet he acted normal on
3:32:46this and that is just
3:32:48that is weird somebody there's
3:32:52two different lives there or something
3:32:54oh there's definitely two different
3:32:55lives that's why sometimes i have to
3:32:57like i feel like
3:32:58when he's like what did she people like
3:33:00what did he say about
3:33:01her and it's just like i don't even know
3:33:03if i want to say it because who knows if
3:33:05that's what's really happening i mean
3:33:07maybe maybe not
3:33:09uh molly called me back so we'll call
3:33:11her come on
3:33:13okay i think i might need to approach
3:33:15anadarko i really don't want to go to
3:33:17work tomorrow i don't think i'm going to
3:33:22just take the week off and then
3:33:24spend things out on the weekend and then
3:33:26i can like reach out to my
3:33:28supervisor and
3:33:30eap
3:33:42i'll walk you guys down
3:33:47no which is crazy because i've drank so
3:33:50much water today i really really do
3:33:52appreciate it
3:33:55[Music]
3:34:06[Music]
3:34:11you

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