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Nando Parrado: Resilience, Rugby, and Leading Your Life | Today's Battlegrounds With H.R. McMaster — Transcript

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0:00>> H.R. McMaster: America and other free and open societies face crucial challenges
0:05and opportunities abroad that affect security and prosperity at home.
0:11This is a series of conversations with guests who bring deep understanding
0:16of today's battlegrounds and creative ideas about how to compete,
0:21overcome challenges, capitalize on opportunities, and secure a better future.
0:27I am H.R. McMaster.
0:29This is Battlegrounds.
0:31[MUSIC]
0:40>> Narrator: On today's episode of Battlegrounds, our focus is on endurance,
0:44leadership, and the remarkable will to survive.
0:48Our guest, Nando Parrado, is a businessman, author, and
0:52internationally recognized speaker whose extraordinary life story began
0:57with one of the most harrowing survival events of the 20th century,
1:01the 1972 crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 in the Andes Mountains.
1:08At just 22 years old, Nando Parrado was a university student and
1:12rugby player traveling with his team, the Old Christians of Montevideo,
1:17to Chile for an international match when their plane crashed into the snowbound
1:22Cordillera de los Andes at an altitude of 18,000ft.
1:26Twelve of the 45 passengers died on impact.
1:29Parraro remained unconscious for three days before he woke to discover that
1:34the crash had killed many of his teammates, his mother, and
1:37fatally injured his sister.
1:40Trapped at high altitude, facing sub-zero temperatures, avalanches, and starvation,
1:46the surviving team members were forced to make unimaginable decisions.
1:51The Andes, which stretch 5,500 miles along South America's western edge,
1:56are a formidable terrain of towering peaks and high plateaus.
2:00Parrado and the 15 survivors endured extreme conditions for 72 days, and
2:06ultimately Parrado led the mission to find help alongside teammate Roberto Canessa.
2:12He trekked for 10 days across the snowy Andes and
2:15eventually encountered herdsmen near Los Maintenance, Chile,
2:19on the opposite side of a river too loud to communicate across; they and
2:24the herdsmen threw rocks with notes wrapped around them, resulting in
2:28the rescue of Perraro, Canessa, and all other remaining survivors.
2:33Parrado has since authored the international bestseller Miracle in
2:38the Andes Personal Reflection on the Ordeal and
2:41served as an advisor on multiple film and documentary projects about the event,
2:46including Alive, released in 1993, I Am Alive, released in 2010, and
2:51the critically acclaimed Netflix film La Sociedad de la Nieve Society of the Snow,
2:57released in late 2023.
2:59The film has received widespread acclaim and was nominated for an Academy Award for
3:03Best International Feature Film.
3:06Parrado credits the culture of rugby with shaping the unity, discipline and
3:11perseverance that enabled the team to enjoy their ordeal.
3:14He emphasizes that rugby instills a powerful sense of collective
3:18responsibility and moral clarity, qualities that prove vital in moments of
3:23extreme adversity we welcome Nando Parrado to discuss his legacy of survival,
3:28the ethics of crisis leadership, and how the enduring spirit of
3:32teamwork nurtured on the rugby pitch carried him and
3:35his friends through one of the greatest survival challenges in modern history.
3:46>> H.R. McMaster: Nando Parrado, welcome to Battlegrounds.
3:49It is a pleasure to welcome onto this show a great rugger and
3:54a person who can give us, I think,
3:57tremendous insights into life, perseverance and resilience.
4:02Thank you so much for joining me.
4:06>> Fernando Nando Parrado: Thank you, HR for me, it's an honor.
4:12I mean, I've heard a lot about you.
4:15You're a rugby player and anybody who has been on a rugby field for
4:21some time and playing rugby with a team knows that
4:26any rugby player in the world is a brother.
4:30You know, it doesn't happen with any other sport.
4:34Okay, and my name is Nando Parrado.
4:38I live in Montevideo, Uruguay.
4:40I'm here in Montevideo now and I'm 76 years old.
4:47I have been businessman, entrepreneur, whatever you can call it.
4:53I have been always the, the owner of my life with all the positive things and
4:58the bad things in those things, because you have to achieve.
5:04If you don't achieve, you don't pay, for food, for
5:09your family, lodging dressing, healthcare,
5:13schooling, college, everything.
5:17So during the pandemic, I sold three of my companies.
5:23I only have one now, a television production company.
5:27And I have plenty of life now to enjoy my,
5:32my life with my family first, my friends, my sports and my dogs.
5:39>> H.R. McMaster: Well, now you introduce the themes I want to talk to you about,
5:45the first is a theme of kind of community and how important it is for
5:50people to be part of a family and a broader community.
5:55Nando, I think we are better connected to one another than ever, electronically.
6:00But it seems like we're more distant from one another than ever, socially and
6:04psychologically and spiritually and emotionally.
6:07And so could you talk about the importance of team to you?
6:10And I want to read, I want to read just a short passage from, you know,
6:14from Miracle in the Andes, which I recommend to anybody, everybody,
6:19in terms of the life lessons.
6:21But you wrote your effort, you're talking about a rugby team now.
6:26Your effort and your will vanishes into the collective will of the team and
6:31if this will is unified and focused, the team surges forward and
6:37the scrum magically begins to move.
6:40To me, this is the essence of rugby.
6:42No other sport gives you such an intense sense of selflessness and unified purpose.
6:47And I'll tell you I confess to you that I was a wing but
6:52I played wing like a wing forward so I, I understand the scrum and
6:58love the weak side game with my loose forwards and so
7:02could you talk to me about and us about that what you learned from
7:08rugby in terms of the importance of community and really family.
7:16>> Fernando Nando Parrado: It's very, very strange to speak about rugby.
7:19Sometimes people don't know what rugby is in certain parts of the world.
7:25I have played soccer, I played tennis,
7:28I did a lot of motor racing in bikes and cars and everything but
7:33I have never felt the feeling that I had on a rugby team.
7:39You know, now it's changing a little bit.
7:42But not any single team rugby team in the world had the name of
7:47the player on the back ever.
7:49Only a number right?
7:52In rugby there are no stars.
7:54Everybody.
7:56The 15 players on the team is a fundamental piece of that team.
8:01Everything has to work together in other teams.
8:05In basketball, NFL, you have stars that the team plays for, those stars.
8:13In rugby, there is no star, everybody has the same importance.
8:18And it's a very tough game in a way, you don't wear any protection whatsoever.
8:26Just, you know, a T shirt sometimes or, or a shirt.
8:30And you have to protect your opponent, you have to protect yourself, and
8:34your team protects you.
8:37And I've never found that on any other sport.
8:40On any other sport.
8:41And the beautiful thing about rugby is that after a game which is very strong,
8:47even if it's your last Sunday here was the final of the Uruguayan Rugby
8:53championship and it's a very strong game, very strong game.
8:58But after the game, even if it's a lot of friction,
9:02there's some blood coming out of some place.
9:05There's a third game, which is called the Tarsar Tiempio.
9:11After the game, everybody embraces each other, salutes each other, and
9:15they have a beer together.
9:18>> H.R. McMaster: You have a party together.
9:19Exactly.
9:19Yeah. >> Fernando Nando Parrado: Yeah,
9:20Partying together.
9:21>> H.R. McMaster: So you sing and we, and you sing together.
9:24>> Fernando Nando Parrado: We sing together.
9:26And that friendship.
9:29I started playing rugby in school, then in high school, then on the National League.
9:36And my friends who started playing rugby with me in my school when I was 10
9:41years old, 11 years old, are my dear friends today.
9:46We get together every month we get together.
9:49And that friendship has been.
9:54Has had roots in rugby.
9:56Plus, I always say I had hardships in my life.
10:03I had very difficult things in my life.
10:05And rugby saved my life, rugby saved my life.
10:10And probably we'll talk a little bit about that later,
10:15because we'll talk about this plane crash in
10:19the Andes where I was a team member of a rugby team.
10:24And hadn't it been, and this is very,
10:28very personal to say, but hadn't it been a rugby team,
10:33it would have been very difficult to survive over there.
10:38Very, very difficult to survive.
10:41>> H.R. McMaster: Nando [COUGH] When I read your story,
10:44I think a lot about the army where I served.
10:48I served in the army for 34 years.
10:50And, one of the things you do is you.
10:52You focus on building teams, teams that are bound together
10:58by mutual trust, common purpose, and real affection.
11:03A good army unit becomes like a family.
11:07And what really what you're doing is you're building up, you're building up
11:11those bonds of mutual confidence, trust in one another, affection for one another.
11:16That steals you against fear.
11:19And the other debilitating emotions that you can experience in battle, right?
11:24Especially when you lose loved ones and you're stressed in a difficult situation.
11:32And when I read your book, I thought that this is a lot like combat.
11:37You went into combat very suddenly.
11:39And I wonder if you could share with our viewers now, as you look back on it, and
11:43you didn't write the book for many years, I mean, decades.
11:47You haven't given an interview for, I think, three years.
11:52I think when I read the book, it seemed to me like you were explaining,
11:56you were explaining how you were able to come through this.
12:00Can you share with our viewers what built up in you and
12:05your teammates and those who experienced this horror,
12:09that kind of resilience, that strength to endure?
12:16>> Fernando Nando Parrado: Well, let me see.
12:18I listen to you and I'm making some parallelism between what you say and
12:24what we suffered over there.
12:28We had a great war, a great battle every single day,
12:33a great battle against nature and nature has patience.
12:39It never gets tired.
12:41It defeats you with time.
12:43It never, they have the mountains, the snow, the ice.
12:47They have been there for millions of years.
12:49And we were dropped into that environment without any knowledge, without anything.
12:55We were at that time, the average age was 19 years old 19, almost 20, 19.
13:03And three quarters of the team over there, but we came from the beach, from the sea.
13:09We had never seen mountains, snow or ice in our lives.
13:13And we were dropped there.
13:15So the team, the regiment, the platoon had to get together and
13:21we started this war almost immediately.
13:25We crashed with an airplane.
13:27I don't know if people who are listening to this, maybe they know the story,
13:31they have seen the movie, the Society of the Snow or whatever.
13:36But we were dropped into the worst place where a human being can survive.
13:42You can survive on the desert, on the jungle, on the ocean, with no chances,
13:47on the highest peaks in South America or the Himalaya.
13:51You cannot survive there.
13:53But 15 minutes after the plane crash,
13:57we had a leader, the captain of the rugby team.
14:03He was already leading, organizing everything, doing whatever he had to do.
14:08It didn't matter if it was strong or not.
14:11He had to take dead bodies, take care of some of the guys that were badly wounded.
14:18And he never had any instruction, any survival training, whatever.
14:24He was a rugby captain and we stayed.
14:31All the survival experts say that we couldn't have survived more than 36
14:36hours in that environment.
14:38And we survived for two and a half months were on the plane,
14:44there were members of our club who were not rugby players.
14:50But there were 17 rugby players of the first division, my team,
14:54my rugby team over there.
14:57Of the 17 players, 12 died.
15:01Along the 72 days, 12 died.
15:05It's a battle.
15:07It's a action, you're in action.
15:10I know you have been with machine guns firing at you, whatever.
15:15This is a battle against nature.
15:17And you have to react and
15:21you have to believe on that bond that was
15:26created on the field, a rugby field.
15:32Of the 17 players, 12 died.
15:36But the other five rugby players were the ones
15:41who did everything to help the other ones.
15:45Why, because we were rugby players.
15:49We believed into each other.
15:51And I just remember one, one night,
15:55we were out on an expedition to.
15:59Find the tail of the plane.
16:01But we were caught on a storm, on a huge storm.
16:06And I want to relate that to the middle of a great
16:10battle that you have been in, the soldiers are battling,
16:14the bullets are coming from all over and people are getting killed.
16:20And only if you have been there, you can relate to that,
16:25but if there's one of your platoon or
16:28your regiment wounded over there, and you say,
16:33I have to get him, I have to help him, how do you do that?
16:38You never think, you never realize the danger you're going into,
16:43but you run, you pick him up, and you bring him into behind a wall or
16:48whatever because he was wounded and he was part of your regiment here.
16:53One of my teammates falls down, gave up in the middle of a storm.
16:57You are inside a ping pong ball, everything is white.
17:01The wind, everything, the sound and you, I went back and picked him up.
17:07Why? I don't know why, but how many things
17:12could be so much in common with what you lived?
17:18True.
17:19>> H.R. McMaster: Yeah, Nando, your story resonates so much with me.
17:23There's so much of even training in our military, but, but especially in combat,
17:29actually, your responsibility for others, leadership responsibility,
17:34I think, insulates you from fear and the debilitating effect of that emotion
17:39because your responsibility makes you think about others more than yourself.
17:44And then also, you just, you have this sense of honor,
17:48like you don't want to let other people down, and you actually fear that more
17:53than you fear in your case the harshest elements you can imagine, right?
17:58An environment you can imagine or
18:01any bullet that might be heading in your direction.
18:05So, I really, it really resonated with me your whole story.
18:11And, I wanted to ask you, now that you look back on it, you look at that
18:17strength on that expedition to go find the tail of the airplane and
18:22other times when it was a setback, like the avalanche,
18:26I'm thinking, can you maybe share with our viewers what in your life?
18:32I mean, obviously the, the teamwork,
18:34the bonds that you have with your rugby teammates.
18:37But, but what helped prepare you for these trials and
18:42what helped develop in you the kind of resilience that you and
18:46your teammates displayed.
18:51>> Fernando Nando Parrado: In my life in my case, I've always looked back and
18:56everything that my parents and my Grandparents taught me.
19:02My mother came from Ukraine to Uruguay when she was 17.
19:06She never spoke a word of Spanish or everything.
19:08They just ran away from the war, with my grandmother,
19:13also Ukrainian, and two of my mother's brothers.
19:19>> H.R. McMaster: She ran away.
19:19We should tell our viewers from probably the holomador.
19:23>> Fernando Nando Parrado: She ran away because nobody thinks about Ukraine and
19:27Poland in those days.
19:29But it was awful.
19:31They couldn't, they didn't even have food to eat, so they could run away.
19:37>> H.R. McMaster: They were deliberately starved by Stalin.
19:41>> Fernando Nando Parrado: They were deliberately starved by Stalin,
19:44luckily they found a ship that was coming to South America and
19:47they never knew where they were going, but they stopped here.
19:51So life goes on and she started working
19:56very low as a maid on a company.
20:01She was a maid and, but also answering the phone.
20:04She was, an all purpose person on this small company over there.
20:11And she started learning Spanish.
20:13One day she met another worker on the neighborhood who was my father.
20:19They got, they fell in love, they got married.
20:23And my father was working with leather goods,
20:29creating belts and very, very, very poor family.
20:36But they started working together.
20:38And 30 years later, they were.
20:40My father was one of the biggest entrepreneurs and
20:44importers of construction equipment and fastening systems in the country.
20:50You know, working.
20:52So what did I see?
20:53I saw that, I saw that.
20:55I saw the way they loved each other,
20:59the way they worked together without any.
21:03They worked 24 hours a day.
21:06I mean, it's not like now where I see workers, I say, okay, I want to work only
21:12six hours a day and how much are you going to pay me and how much holidays do I have?
21:20So I, I was bred into that.
21:22I learned that, I saw them working.
21:24They taught me with example, not with words and commandments and dogmas.
21:30You know, I saw what they did and they were, they were very much in love.
21:36And they worked so hard to send us to the best school so
21:40that we could learn what they never learned.
21:45So my responsibility to them and the way they fought,
21:48I think was engraved in my back.
21:53So when I had to fight and I had to look for myself on a very difficult
21:59environment, I remember that the base that my family created at my home,
22:04which I today, I think it's the same thing.
22:08Today is the same thing, the family is, the base, is the foundation of everything.
22:15The family of any religion, but it has to be a family, you know.
22:22>> H.R. McMaster: Yeah.
22:23>> Fernando Nando Parrado: And I came from there.
22:25They sent me to a very good school, very good school, which was very.
22:32>> H.R. McMaster: Though I love this story, by the way.
22:34Please share.
22:35Like your, the story of your education and how that built resilience.
22:40I went to Catholic grade school and a military high school, and so I,
22:44connected with that part of that, that story in the book.
22:49>> Fernando Nando Parrado: Yeah, we, we were educated by the Irish brothers,
22:53the Christian brothers from Ireland.
22:56They had a school here in Monay, and they were very fond of rugby.
23:03So the school sport was rugby.
23:07So the technical director was obviously
23:11always a brother who played rugby in Ireland.
23:17So they taught us to play and they were like a tough school.
23:24But I look back and I enjoy and with my friends,
23:27we say what a great school we have.
23:30What a great school.
23:32Because they taught us to be, to find our character.
23:39Because character is not taught.
23:40You find your character in life.
23:43Some people find it before other ones but you find it.
23:48They taught us to lead our own lives.
23:53Why? Because if you don't lead,
23:55if you are a loser in your life, in everything, how can you lead other ones?
24:00How can you have a life?
24:02They taught us to believe in ourselves, they told us,
24:07wake up to the miracle that you're alive.
24:12You are the leader of your life, so they embedded that in our minds,
24:17through the years that we spent on the school.
24:21And I think it was a very,
24:23very good thing when the time came to really show our character,
24:28we had that background, I think it was like a military training.
24:34I love it, is a lot like it,
24:36what of my old Ranger instructors when I was in Ranger school,
24:40where they create really hardships for you that you have to get through.
24:45And then you realize, as you've described, I mean,
24:50really, in a much more difficult and harrowing conditions,
24:55that you can accomplish so much more as a team.
24:59As a community, than you can as an individual,
25:02no individual could ever have survived, I think what you survived and
25:06what comes through in your story is this sense of community.
25:11And I think that these brothers,
25:14these christian brothers, I think it's still that in you.
25:19Like the way my Ranger instructor instilled it in me when he said,
25:22how can you lead your man if you can't lead yourself?
25:26And so you have this sense of how individual strength is important,
25:34but also the strength of the community.
25:40Or I can see now and compare and what we did in the Andes
25:46over there, which we were a real community,
25:51real rugby in the hardships of survival.
25:56But nobody wanted to be the leader of that group,everybody was
26:01the leader of his life over there, everybody knew what to do.
26:07Who wanted to be the leader of a group of guys condemned to die,
26:10we trusted each other.
26:12People say what saved you?
26:14Trust in the other guys, trust in the other guys, everybody knew what to do,
26:18whatever he had to do, trust him.
26:21And imagine that our captain, he had never seen snow in his life or
26:26whatever, but he took decisions that saved our lives,
26:30especially at the beginning, because you can imagine the trauma that you have.
26:37In comprehension of what happened, half an hour, 15 minutes, 20 minutes,
26:43one hour after a huge plane crash in the middle of the mountains, you're lost.
26:50But this guy Marcelo, he started to take decisions that saved our lives two and
26:55a half months later.
26:57So I say, how could that have happened on a commercial airliner where nobody knows
27:02each other?
27:03Different ages, different religions, different languages,
27:07different education, people traveling alone,
27:10people traveling with their families, how can you find a leader?
27:15And the decisions that Marcelo took on the first two,
27:18three hours of this crash saved our lives.
27:22So, and that's because he was a lion playing rugby and a fantastic captain.
27:30>> H.R. McMaster: Nando, I think these are such important lessons for
27:34society broadly, I mean, we are in a situation these days,
27:38I think, where people are disconnected from one another.
27:42And the point that you just made about if this had been a civilian airliner where
27:47people didn't know each other, didn't have those bonds of, of trust and
27:51really affection for one another, you might not have been able to persevere.
27:56I want to ask you a personal question,
28:00I'm sure our viewers will know from the story that your mother and
28:07your sister were on that plane and you lost them in the crash.
28:14And then in the days after, in the case of your sister,
28:18could you share maybe with them, how you coped with that hardship,
28:24the most unimaginable circumstances where you lose loved
28:29ones in this harrowing experience?
28:36>> Fernando Nando Parrado: I never thought I would be on that position in my life,
28:39I never thought I would have a plane crash.
28:41I never thought I would have to bury my mother, my sister,
28:46my two best friends with my own hands in the middle of nowhere on the snow.
28:53And for many years I looked back and I said, Nando, how did you do that?
29:00What happened to you?
29:02How were you able to do that?
29:05What happened?
29:08Because as soon as I buried them and I couldn't cry,
29:12and I said, Nando, why don't you cry?
29:15Why don't you have any feeling?
29:18I had feelings, but I couldn't cry.
29:22Because when you're in the middle of the battle,
29:25in the middle of the machine guns and the grenades and whatever, and
29:29there is snipers that are hitting you just concentrate.
29:33And decades later, I spoke with some people that were very
29:38well trained in military, and they told me, look, Nando,
29:43when things happen, your mind goes into the most important thing.
29:49On a limited situation of that magnitude, it like being in the middle of a battle,
29:55in the middle of a battle, in the middle, if you're an Air Force,
29:59US Air Force pilot fighting against three planes, I mean, you have to concentrate.
30:05And your mind, not you, your mind leaves behind
30:11whatever troubles you to focus on what you have to do.
30:18Some people can do it, some cannot do it, and they die.
30:23Why you did it, it's because you were one of the ones who wanted to leave.
30:29When you panic in the middle of a battle or you're fighting on a nerve force,
30:35playing against three MIGs, if you panic, you're done.
30:40And your mind protects you, your mind
30:45protects you from suffering in that moment,
30:50and then I looked at some stories.
30:55I remember the Boston Marathon explosion, when the bomb exploded,
31:01and you look at the moment the bomb explodes,
31:05most of the people run away from the explosion, but at the same time,
31:11there are three or four guys who run towards the explosion.
31:16What makes the difference?,
31:19they run to help instantly, the other ones run away, so
31:24those are the moments, I think you find your character.
31:31And I remember my family,
31:35my friends, with a lot of love,
31:39but I don't suffer anymore.
31:44>> H.R. McMaster: I want to talk more about that,
31:47[COUGH] One of my old lieutenants, Nando,
31:50he a fantastic guy, John Maguire, he was in New York,
31:55in a building in Manhattan when 911 happened, and what happened is.
32:01He ran to the towers as they were collapsing.
32:05And there's a photo of him carrying out the chaplain from the fire department,
32:11from the rubble who had been killed by falling debris and everything.
32:17But that was his instinct, his instinct was to run toward, right the danger.
32:22And, of course, that's your instinct, you're a rugby player.
32:27The Christian brothers, but
32:30also I would like to talk about the example of your father.
32:35And you started to mention, kind of the difficult, I mean,
32:39obviously you have a lot of difficult memories.
32:42And anybody who's been through trauma, they realize they have to
32:46cope with those memories and deal with them for the rest of their lives.
32:53Can you talk about the example of your father and
32:57maybe how his example helped you cope with the trauma that you experienced?
33:04>> Fernando Nando Parrado: I have to be very honest with you,
33:08maybe I'm a strange guy or whatever.
33:12I was never traumatized by this experience, I accepted it,
33:17I accepted it as it happened, and I said, okay, now let's move forward.
33:22But the story of my father comes here, why?,
33:26you can imagine that I suffered a lot over there.
33:30I coped with a lot of things, but my father also,
33:33he was watching the television one night and he sees, plane crash in the Andes,
33:38the plane bla, bla, bla with a rugby team, and my family was there.
33:44He knew about the plane crash, watching the TV, a news program,
33:50so the following two and a half months for him were hell.
33:55Imagine somebody who has a family losing three
34:00quarters of your family in one second, but
34:04as I told you, he came back from almost nothing.
34:09When he was young, he married my mother,
34:12so he knew about fighting in life and he told me that during those two and
34:17a half months, he had a very bad time, very bad time.
34:22He couldn't work, he couldn't concentrate, he woke up at night,
34:28walked for hours, he slept with my dog in my bed.
34:33And when I came back, he said, okay, Nando, thanks for
34:37resurrecting, because I came back from the dead.
34:42When people die, usually they take him, take them on a coffin,
34:47they put them on a graveyard, and they never come back,
34:51I came back, I resurrected and he embraced me.
34:54We spent some time together, a couple of days together,
35:00just enjoying this resurrection.
35:04But, at one moment, he put his arms around me and he said,
35:08Nando, we can not modify the past, there's no way.
35:12We cannot modify the past, but let's not lose the second part of our only life.
35:19My father, he told me that.
35:23>> H.R. McMaster: And let's just for our viewers, I just want to say that again,
35:27let's not lose the second part of our only life, I mean,
35:31I think that is so profound, Nando.
35:34>> Fernando Nando Parrado: It's so simple, my father,
35:37he went to fifth grade on a public school that he had to work.
35:43But he was a guy, very pragmatic,
35:46with a lot of common sense and a fantastic worker.
35:51He worked 28 hours per day, I can assure you, but
35:55a great common sense and he said, let's not look back,
36:00let's not forget, and he told me people suffer as much as they want.
36:08People suffer all their lives, looking back sometimes, when you
36:13understand that there's no way you can modify that past you understand life.
36:18Let's love them, let's not forget them, but let's look forward.
36:28>> H.R. McMaster: Could you share with our viewers when you
36:30returned to the site of the crash with your father.
36:34And what he told you about remembering, really, but not allowing.
36:42>> Fernando Nando Parrado: My father obviously never forgot, not for
36:47one minute, but I mean, he went forward,
36:51but he was the first one.
36:55And one year after the plane crash,
36:59at 4,500 meters, the bodies of the people
37:05who didn't survive were buried there.
37:11And my father said, Nando, I want to go up there, I want to go up there and
37:16put flowers in a grave of Mamá Susie and your friends.
37:22And I said, okay, I'll go with you, so we made an expedition, horseback,
37:27with the guides and everything, took us four days to get there.
37:32And my father put flowers in the grave of my mother and my sister and my friends.
37:39One more important thing, he did it for 18 years in a row afterwards,
37:4718 years in a row afterwards, that's love.
37:53And he said, Nando, I'm not crazy,
37:56I simply love and love your mother very, very much,
38:02and I just wanted to put flowers in a grave of her.
38:07How many people go to graveyards and put flowers in the graves of their dear ones?
38:13My graveyard, the only difference is that it's further away,
38:20so he did it for 18 years in a row until I said, daddy, it's enough.
38:27I went with him 13 times, so you have to go on horseback,
38:31he was getting, almost 80.
38:35If something happens at the end, we had satellite phones and
38:40everything you could on an emergency, I don't know, call helicopters or whatever.
38:46But it was enough, I told him, you paid your dues,
38:52she'll remember you, don't worry, and you'll meet her someday.
38:59>> H.R. McMaster: Gosh, I want to ask you as well about, about the only life
39:04you have, your second life, I guess, after this trauma.
39:10I know that obviously there's been a lot of focus on post
39:15traumatic stress with those who have experienced combat and
39:20very difficult circumstances in combat,
39:24losing people who you care about or being wounded yourself.
39:30But I think there's a role, Nando, for kind of stoicism, not to stigmatize
39:35post traumatic stress at all, but to recognize that you can transcend it.
39:42You have an amazing family, you have an amazing career.
39:46Can you talk about how you coped with this experience and
39:51then went on to create this wonderful kind of second life after the trauma?
39:59>> Fernando Nando Parrado: First of all, I was, so happy to be alive
40:04just to be alive was a fantastic bonus.
40:10And then I realized I had to live a life.
40:15I had to live a life.
40:17I wouldn't be focusing all my life on the past or
40:21suffering because I had suffered so much.
40:27I mean, I had to go forward.
40:29And I played rugby for two more years.
40:33I started with my life.
40:34I never went to a shrink.
40:35I never had any psychological advice,
40:39maybe post traumatic stress disorder consultation.
40:44My father told me, that day, Nando, let's not lose the second part of our only life.
40:50So I started doing sports, working with my father, and
40:55incredibly enough, one thing leads to another one in life or
41:00a person brings you another person or whatever you do
41:05brings you to another fact, another action in your life.
41:10And I was a good sportsman.
41:13I loved sports.
41:15And my father was the own, the founder of the Uruguayan Racing Drivers
41:20association, president of the Automobile Club, whatever.
41:24I was bred into car racing and before the plane crashed,
41:28I told my father, look, Daddy, I want to race because it was in my blood,
41:34whatever that theoretical thing that everybody says it's in my blood.
41:39I know I wanted to race.
41:41And my father said, okay, if you want to race, you can race.
41:43I won't give you $1, nothing.
41:46If you want to race, go and race.
41:47I'll clean your windshield, change your tires,
41:52I've seen fortunes dilapidated on racing cars, so I won't give you $1.
41:58Then I crash in the airplane and whatever.
42:01And I came back and I said, I almost died without doing
42:05what I thought was important in my life important.
42:10So I started racing.
42:12And that taught me a lot, because my father never,
42:15never gave me one cent to race.
42:16I had to look for sponsors, I had to work, I had to buy tires, everything.
42:22That created an entrepreneur aspect in my life very much.
42:28And I started racing and I raced quite successfully, so
42:31successfully that I was contracted by the Alfa Romeo factory team in Europe,
42:36in Italy, to race the whole European Touring Car Championship.
42:41Why do I say this?
42:42Because that action that I started because I wanted to race, brought me to my family.
42:49And people say cars were so important in my life,
42:53because I started racing and I raced all through Europe.
42:58And when I went to race in Belgium, I met a beautiful person,
43:03a fantastic person, and I fell in love with her immediately.
43:09I still question myself why she fell in love with me.
43:13That moment, I don't know, as we all do.
43:16>> H.R. McMaster: I think rugby players marry above themselves.
43:22>> Fernando Nando Parrado: And I found a girl that has been with me for 46 years,
43:27she has been the buyer, pillar of my life.
43:31She worked with me, we created a television company together.
43:35She anchored two of my TV programs for 22 years.
43:39She's the mother of my two daughters, and she's a fantastic woman.
43:45And without her, I wouldn't have had probably the life that I had.
43:52And that's why I say my desire to race cars brought me to my family.
44:00Yeah.
44:01So follow your instinct.
44:02I always the, my instinct.
44:04Follow my instinct saved my life.
44:07So she was 19 when I met her, 19.
44:13And she said, I'll follow you now.
44:15And she left Belgium with me 10 days afterwards, and
44:20we are still together and I say, if this girl who's 19,
44:25I mean, leaves everything for me, she's the real deal.
44:30She's the real deal.
44:33>> H.R. McMaster: Absolutely.
44:34For our younger viewers.
44:37Right. Follow your passion and, and, you know,
44:40and, and understand, like, the importance of community and, and, and, and family.
44:47Yeah.
44:48>> Fernando Nando Parrado: Yes, you.
44:50>> H.R. McMaster: Nandi, you waited 36 years to write the book.
44:53And, and this is, it's beautifully written.
44:56Honestly.
44:56It is a har.
45:00But it's inspirational to read this book.
45:06Why did you do it after 36 years?
45:08And what led to Tara?
45:10>> Fernando Nando Parrado: I think it's an important question,
45:13HR because why should I write a book 36 years after something happens?
45:20I mean, I didn't have the passion of a writer.
45:25I didn't want to be a writer.
45:28I didn't want any financial returns from writing a book.
45:34Probably the worst business that you can do in your life is to write a book.
45:39>> H.R. McMaster: Hey, I know, I know.
45:40I can relate to that.
45:41>> Fernando Nando Parrado: You write one book,
45:42that's the worst business you can do in your life.
45:46But after the second part of our lives that we had with my father,
45:52he went with me to the races, we worked together.
45:56He kept teaching me in business a lot of things.
46:01We had a fantastic second part of our only lives.
46:05Very happy life together.
46:1036 years we had together with my father, and he was going to be 90 years old.
46:17And I said, I have to find a nice present for my father.
46:20He has a car, he has a home.
46:23He doesn't want to travel anymore.
46:26He has a lot of clothes that he doesn't use anymore.
46:31So what can I do for him?
46:33And for two and a half years almost, I started writing a book about how
46:38he taught me at the beginning of my life, saved my life at the end.
46:44What he and my mother taught me and my family taught me,
46:48saved my life at the end.
46:50So I wrote the book, I published the book.
46:53I thought it was going to print 200 copies and one of those copies,
46:57I gave them to my father on the day of his 90th birthday.
47:02I said no, no, what is this?
47:04This is my present for you.
47:06What is this?
47:06Okay, read it, so he read it and about a week later
47:12we got together we usually had lunch sometimes together and
47:19it comes to me with a little bit of wet eyes and
47:23he embraces me and says between a father and
47:28a son, this embrace tells everything.
47:33And he understood that I wrote that book for him.
47:39So it's a nice how many stories are in this planet that are hard stories,
47:47beautiful stories, many stories.
47:51I suffered a lot and I was blessed with a lot of condolences afterwards.
47:57So but I'm not different to you HR to whomever listens or
48:02watches this, this interview,
48:05I'm a normal guy who was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
48:10That's it.
48:12But I had rugby in my veins also, so
48:16that's something I will never forget and
48:21rugby saved my life.
48:26>> H.R. McMaster: If there are, like, headlines to this, I mean,
48:29this, I mean, unimaginable hardship that you got through.
48:33I think it's community, family, team affection, the bonds of trust.
48:40>> Fernando Nando Parrado: I hope a lot of young people watches this because they
48:45think maybe that this is life.
48:49>> H.R. McMaster: Yeah. >> Fernando Nando Parrado: They live
48:50inside this.
48:50>> H.R. McMaster: Right.
48:52>> Fernando Nando Parrado: They live inside it.
48:53But this is not true.
48:54Life is outside everything.
48:56It's a lie that's in here.
48:58They fought us, everything is the communication, the everything is a lie.
49:07This is the new worst religion that this planet has.
49:11I use it for work.
49:12I don't have Instagram.
49:14I have WhatsApp and email.
49:18>> H.R. McMaster: Right, right.
49:20No, but it's so true.
49:23>> Fernando Nando Parrado: Get out of this box and live your life.
49:26Don't live inside this box.
49:28My God.
49:29>> H.R. McMaster: That's right and don't be connected to people electronically.
49:34Be connected.
49:35>> Fernando Nando Parrado: Electronically.
49:36>> H.R. McMaster: Emotionally.
49:37Right. And, and socially and, and, you know, and,
49:40and spiritually as well.
49:42Right. And so I, I think, Nando, your,
49:45your experience, I think, is so valuable to so many people.
49:49I mean, I, I, I, I'm so sorry that you had to go through what you went through.
49:53I can't imagine none of us can.
49:55But I'm also very grateful for you, your example, and
49:59what you've shared with our viewers.
50:02What I'd like to do is just as we kind of finish our conversation,
50:07to ask you to share with our viewers whatever you'd like to share with
50:12them in terms of advice for them based on your life and your experiences.
50:21>> Fernando Nando Parrado: I just gave a good advice.
50:23Forget a little bit about this.
50:25You think your life is in there, it's not there.
50:29Second, things take time.
50:32Things take time.
50:33Now, young people they want to be successful in everything from
50:38the beginning in studies, in love, at the university, in business.
50:43They want to succeed as fast as possible.
50:47And you will probably fail as fast as possible.
50:50You know, a lot of failures.
50:52A lot of failures.
50:54Sometimes I look back and I say, how could I have made so many mistakes?
50:58And those mistakes were transformed later into,
51:02into experience, into experience and believe in yourself.
51:08Believe in yourself.
51:10It's a very, very difficult word.
51:14Planet.
51:15This.
51:16Nothing is easy.
51:17Everything takes time.
51:19Everything is difficult.
51:21I look at the logos and sometimes all those marketing phrases of
51:26companies that say you can do it, you're the owner,
51:30you are the number one, feel it, you know, whatever.
51:34Nothing is impossible.
51:37Sometimes things are impossible, but don't punish
51:42yourself if things don't go in the way that you think.
51:49Keep on going and follow two things.
51:53Academic things are important, very important.
51:57But remember this, the family, your heart and your intuition,
52:02they will bring you to the real things in your life.
52:08>> H.R. McMaster: Nando, I can't think of a better way to end our discussion.
52:12But I do need to ask you one more question because we've got Rugby World cup coming
52:16up in 2027 and then it's going to be in the United States in 2031.
52:21And I want to host you here in 2031.
52:24But could you share with our viewers why, why,
52:28why should more Americans play rugby and get interested in rugby?
52:38>> Fernando Nando Parrado: Rugby is something that can change a country.
52:44You know, Uruguay, soccer, you know, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil.
52:49This is soccer.
52:50But rugby has grown here.
52:52Rugby has grown and
52:54a small country of 3 million people only we have a great rugby team.
52:59We go to the World Cups.
53:00We have to defeat Romania, USA and Canada,
53:04you know, who have millions of, of players.
53:09And it changes a country.
53:12It can change your life, it can change the way you see things.
53:16If you embrace rugby and
53:20you live rugby and you get,
53:25post a way forward with rugby.
53:31If you're on a university, the, I would love to go to a university and
53:37tell the students there you can play NFL.
53:40Yes, you can play American football and maybe go to NFL, but nothing,
53:45there's no sport in the world that will give you what rugby gives you.
53:50That companion feeling, that love for your fellow player and
53:57the self confidence because even if you're the worst player on the team,
54:04they look up at you because you have to deliver in your position.
54:12There are no stars in rugby.
54:14You are the stars always.
54:16And you have to be the star in your life.
54:20>> H.R. McMaster: Nando Parrado, I can't think of a better way to end,
54:23end our discussion, but I hope this is one of many, many going forward.
54:27What an honor it is to host you on battlegrounds.
54:30Thank you.
54:30>> Fernando Nando Parrado: Remember that you're going to host me with your
54:33perspective.
54:37>> H.R. McMaster: I'm coming to Uruguay to see you.
54:39>> Fernando Nando Parrado: Okay, whatever.
54:41I'll show you a great, small, beautiful country.
54:47>> H.R. McMaster: Thank you, my friend.
54:47Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us and, really inspiring us,
54:52and on behalf of the Hoover Institution.
54:54And I just wanna say, yeah and our viewers, I know,
54:58will love your story and be inspired by your story.
55:02And thank you so much for.
55:04For joining us.
55:06>> Fernando Nando Parrado: Thank you, chair.
55:08We'll meet again soon.
55:10Don't worry.
55:12Muchos gracias.
55:15>> H.R. McMaster: Ciao. Ciao.
55:15[MUSIC]

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